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Speaker 1: Good afternoon. You're listening to Gambling with an Edge.

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Speaker 2: Now here are your hosts.

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Speaker 1: Bob Dancer and Richard Munchkin.

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Speaker 2: Good afternoon, Welcome to Gambling with an Edge.

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Speaker 3: I'm Bob Dancer and I'm Richard Munchkin.

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Speaker 2: Today we're talking taxes.

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Speaker 4: Until very recently, I believed I needed to give up

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gambling effective the end of this year due to the

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Big Beautiful Bill signed in the law this past July.

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I recently learned that Gary Conler, representing the Conlor and

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Associate CPA firm, believes that the Big Beautiful Bill is

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not doom and gloom for gamblers, and he's here to

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talk about this. Gary Condler, Welcome to Gambling with an Edge.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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Speaker 1: It was a pleasure to kind of meet with you

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last week and really learn about your situation a little

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bit more in depth. And I'm really excited that we

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were able to find you some different kind of filing options.

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So looking forward to just being able to discuss with

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every one here in the future how we really want

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to be handling the taxation in regards to the Big

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Beautiful Bill, so we can definitely we'll make sure that

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we touch on a few different reporting options, helping clients

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understand ways in which they can file their gambling taxation,

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and then we can start to look at some of

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the court cases we can start utilizing from the past

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in regards to keeping our net losses as low as

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possible for this ten percent reduction.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it turns out that your father, Ray Condler, was

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on Gambling with an Edge in twenty thirteen. I believe

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this is our first case of father's son experts on

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our program, while the older program is worth listening to

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as he discusses various types of deductions professional gamblers can take. Today,

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we're talking about the new law, which of course was

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not in effect when Ray Condler was on. Our audience

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includes all kinds of advantage gambler and want to be

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advantage gamblers. Let's start with slot and video video poker

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players who get a lot of W two g's. Tell

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us how the new tax law isn't as bad as

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many of us think it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, really great question. So you know, obviously, when

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we're you know, more or less on the slot side

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of things, and we are accumulating a lot of W

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two g's, the first thing that I will always just

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reiterate back no matter who I speak to. Is really

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just having a good understanding of what our W two

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G total is throughout the year. I do understand for

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people that are drawing up hundreds, if not thousands of

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W two g's, they are very difficult to track throughout

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the year, but I will, you know, just try to

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reiterate for the clients and the taxpayers to make sure

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that they really have a good representation of what this

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wdog total is. Whether you go to the casino and

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ask them to do a print out, you know of

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your profit and law statement. A lot of the times

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the jackpot winnings are there, but essentially, you know, what

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we always want to be looking at is I tend

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to see that the most trouble that people will ever

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get in with the IRS or even state level entities

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is just by not tying to the W two g's.

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It's realistically, the only time I see letters and audits

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come is when we significantly miss a big portion. So

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what I recommend in a situation where people have this

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many tax forms, it's more than okay to submit a

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tax return, you know, prior to April fifteenth, But the

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most important thing and I will label all of these

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clients in my system is that two months later in

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June of the In June of the year, the IRS

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will always release what is called their wage and income transcripts.

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So I urge my clients to just make an account

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on id me. Takes you two to three minutes, and

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I have them just download the transcript for me pdf,

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email it over to me, and then I'll do an

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adding up of all of the w twogs just to

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make sure that our starting point was properly picked up,

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because you know, the IRS will essentially be running an

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algorithm against that wage and income transcript to your tax return,

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and if they think you missed the you know, twenty

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thousand dollars, they'll probably send you a letter. It won't

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be that threatening, but it will come with the tax

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that they think that you owe. And if you start

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to miss six figures up into the half a million mark,

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I will see it go to audit right away. Now,

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the reason I give a long winded explanation of this

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is because hey, it's okay if we have to sit

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there and amend your tax return in June of every year.

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Just remember it is going to take the IRS eighteen

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months to probably do a complete review of this return anyway,

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So if we can just get in there, fix it up,

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amend it. And remember when we amend the tax return,

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we're just moving up the gross income, but your profit's

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still saying the same, so you probably won't owe any

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more tax. But this is always going to be a

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great double checking for people with high W two G totals,

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just to make sure the tax return was properly presented.

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Speaker 3: So I have a question about that. So are you

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listing I mean my understanding was if I go out

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and play, and let's say I hit a W two

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G for five thousand dollars, but I actually only won

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thirty seven hundred for the session, then I thought I

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was listing thirty seven hundred as the win for the

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session as opposed to the W two G.

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Speaker 1: All right, great question. Okay, Yes, so you're gonna see

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here there's going to be a difference a different number

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of what the W two g's total versus the other

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methodology that you're referring to, meaning how are we tracking

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our wins and losses? Now? Okay, because I will be

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using your session method per your example right there, to

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track the numbers that I'm going to be entering into

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the taxable let's say income and deductions. However, I have

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to then leave a paper trail using disclosure statements that

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tie to your wtwog total, so that I didn't spark

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an audit because they now think that hey, he underreported

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his income. It's like no, no, no, wait, he didn't

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not under report the tax forms they're sitting in there

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in either a disclosure statement maybe schedule. See, if we're professionally,

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we'll get into that as well. So I need to

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kind of tie to the high number first high number

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meeting wtwog total. But then we're going to be utilizing

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either the court cases that you just referred to in

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order to track the true net income and what the

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profit was at the end of the day. So two

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sets of numbers here.

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Speaker 3: Okay, But so on, assuming you're a professional, you have

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to list your wins and your losses separately, right are you?

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So it may be the case that your whim side

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of the ledger is greater than course.

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Speaker 1: The some of all the w twogs of course, of course,

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So and the most important thing that I care about

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is that does the irs see the top line number

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and if that's yes, then I'm gonna kind of what

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I call clearing you through the algorithm. But then we're

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gonna then go and track your profit at a way

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different number. And I can almost use the perfect example here.

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It kind of goes back. You know how crypto now

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can be calculated on attach return. You can use a

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few different inventory basises like LIFO FIFO weighted average. It's

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a similar situation to that where you can see we're

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just using we're just bringing in a different methodology of accounting,

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using these court cases that we'll discuss here soon of

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how we're now going to track that. And you ask

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a really good question, because I probably will go about

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it differently for instance of a professional gambler, because the

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professional gambler files on a schedule that just nets out,

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which means it doesn't matter if I show five million

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in four million out just to get down to your

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million dollar profit. That is a little bit more burdensome

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for the amateur gambler because those figures that five million

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dollars then hits into the word called adjusted gross income.

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So there's two different ways as you can see here,

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and I'm probably going to go about things and That's

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why it's not just black and white. Like every gambler

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that comes to me, like and Bob totally saw this

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the other day. The conversation that I'm going to have

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with him is probably going to be completely different than

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the conversation I have with a poker player, a sports better.

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You know everyone's situation, you know, where do they live,

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what other types of income they have. It's all going

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to kind of go into you know, how I'm going

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to go about and present the numbers on a tax return.

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But really, great question that you asked. You know, I

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see exactly where you're coming from. So that's why I

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always just urge clients when I start working with I

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just really want them to be able to answer two

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questions for me to go about this, And question number

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one is always what are your taxworms total? And what's

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your profit on the ear? Okay, if I know those

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two figures, I'll go then figure out how it has

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to be properly presented in a tax return, What statements

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I need to be putting into the return, what numbers

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I need to be tying to. But like you could see,

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everyone's a little different here.

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Speaker 3: Okay, But so let's go back to the example, because

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I'm not getting yet how this isn't horrible. So in

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your example, let's say we have five million in and

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four million out, and I have a profit of a

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million dollars. Yeah, correct, but the four million out, My

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understanding is I can only right off ninety percent of that,

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which means I'm only writing off three point six million

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an io text on a million four instead of on

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a million which was actual profit.

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Speaker 1: Great question, and this is where we're gonna now bring

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in the two court cases here. Okay, So the first

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court case that we're then going to take a look

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at is called Stollenberger versus Commissioner, and this is what

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mainly most people know as what we call the sessions

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method of accounting. I will now be using your session's

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method of accounting to now calculate your ten percent reduction.

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We are not taking a ten percent reduction off of

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the W two G total because now we can bring

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in these court cases to track our wins and losses

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at a much lower netting level rather than a gross

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receipt level. So we're now going to bring in instead

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of and great, great example, the five million in the

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four million out is a great example. A lot of

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people come to me, a lot of slot players come

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to me with that example. But we are not going

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to be taking this ten percent reduction off of the

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W two G total. We're going to now be using

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the court cases to now figure out how we're going

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to apply this ten percent reduction. So if we look

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at Schlallenberger versus Commissioner, that you know, more or less

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is a court case where we now want to be tracking,

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and I probably would urge people just use excel in

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you know how and setting up a few different columns

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in this spreadsheet. So let's say we call column A

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the date range you know, January first to December thirty first,

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And if we have a winning session, meaning you know,

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if we profited there, and I think you gave an

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example where you know we had a you know, thirty

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four hundred dollars profit or whatever, let's put that in

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column B as a winning session. And then let's if

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you had a losing session, let's now put that in

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column C as the losing session. Now, under Shallenberger Versus Commissioner,

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we would then add up your winning columns, see how

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much you want, and then we would add up your

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losing columns, see how much your losses were, and then

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under Stollenberger versus commissioner, we then will take the ten

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percent reduction on what you're losing sessions added up to

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and that, and then you can see that yes, I

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know we're still backing into your million dollar profit. But

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now we may be dealing with different numbers where we

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see one point two million in of wins two hundred

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thousand dollars of losing sessions. That is then where the

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ten percent reduction would then come into place. So as

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you can see, no, not on the WTWOG now netting

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it through using session right.

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Speaker 3: But in my example I was I was using an

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example of exactly that five million wins, four million losses,

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but I only get to write off three point six

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so I'm paying tax on an extra four hundred thousand

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dollars there, am I.

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Speaker 1: Not if you went off the WTWOG total. But if

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you go off I.

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Speaker 3: Mean, if my session total is five million, but.

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Speaker 1: How could the W two g's then equal five million?

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Speaker 3: Then oh no, let's say the let's say that the

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W two g's total four point three million and my

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session total is.

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Speaker 1: Five Yeah, I've never seen an example where it comes

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in at a way higher amount. The W two G

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00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,440
is always going to be the way higher amount because

243
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that's where your grocery seats is going to really be

244
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coming to. So I never see, you know, I in

245
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,919
for my slot players, I never really see a profit

246
00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:40,240
come in higher than what the W two G is totaled.

247
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Speaker 2: Huh.

248
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Speaker 3: That's surprising to me because you have sessions where you

249
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win money, but you didn't have a W two.

250
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Speaker 1: G correct, right, correct, And that's going to be you know,

251
00:13:53,399 --> 00:13:55,639
maybe on the video poker side of things, that could

252
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definitely sit here and be a little bit different. So okay,

253
00:14:00,519 --> 00:14:03,679
that's fine. Now here's what I'm just going to suggest

254
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in a situation like that, and actually I can, I

255
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:10,799
can openly talk about this. So I am. I'm assisting

256
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:14,000
a client in a state audit right now, going back

257
00:14:14,039 --> 00:14:17,440
a couple of years ago. And the really nice thing

258
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,559
is is that he had all of his session method

259
00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:25,000
tracked and even though this client, for instance, is this

260
00:14:25,279 --> 00:14:28,600
real life example. In that year, the client triggered five

261
00:14:28,639 --> 00:14:32,919
and a half million dollars of W twogs and when

262
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,120
he went back and did his session method of accounting,

263
00:14:36,759 --> 00:14:41,159
we actually figured out that his gross session wins were

264
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,279
like one hundred and thirty thousand dollars. So, as you

265
00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,559
can see here, for him, using the session method took

266
00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:51,279
his gross adjusted gross income from five and a half

267
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,519
million all the way down to one hundred and thirty

268
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,080
thousand dollars just by utilizing this court case. I'm not

269
00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,960
saying it's going to work for everyone. So now let's

270
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,759
kind of talk about another court case that I've also uncovered.

271
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And what I am just recommending to a lot of

272
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:12,039
people right now is for them to track their incommon

273
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,559
losses on these two different court cases, and then we'll

274
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have to go throughout the figures all year and really

275
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just see what is going to be the more beneficial

276
00:15:21,799 --> 00:15:24,600
court case for them to use. But the more information

277
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,919
that you can track now for me will realistically give

278
00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:31,919
me a better opportunity to you know, take a way

279
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,440
less you know, reduction in the future for them. So

280
00:15:36,519 --> 00:15:38,799
the other court case that you know, Bob and I

281
00:15:38,879 --> 00:15:41,759
spoke about this the other day is another court case

282
00:15:41,799 --> 00:15:46,799
that I've located called Bonaparte versus Commissioner. And in the

283
00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:51,879
Bonaparte Versus Commissioner case, this client, Bonaparte was audited about

284
00:15:51,919 --> 00:15:54,279
ten to fifteen years ago he tried to file it

285
00:15:54,279 --> 00:16:00,480
to be a professional gambler, and the irs, you know,

286
00:16:00,559 --> 00:16:02,360
kind of just pinpointed that they didn't think that they

287
00:16:02,399 --> 00:16:05,720
agreed that he met that classification. It's not really the

288
00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:09,000
important part of the argument. But in the court case,

289
00:16:09,039 --> 00:16:13,919
Bonaparte gambled at fourteen different casinos. He won at three

290
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,120
of them and lost at eleven of them. So the

291
00:16:17,159 --> 00:16:21,120
way that Bonaparte calculated his gross income was is that

292
00:16:21,159 --> 00:16:24,200
he added up the three casinos that he won at,

293
00:16:24,799 --> 00:16:28,159
which was about eighteen thousand dollars, and then from the

294
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,840
eighteen thousand he backed out the losses from the other casinos.

295
00:16:32,879 --> 00:16:36,879
In summary, what Bonaparte did was is that when he

296
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,600
tied to his gross income calculation, he used the three

297
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:45,440
casinos of his year end profit, which meant that Bonaparte

298
00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:53,000
used a yearly session method per gambling establishment. Wow yes, wow,

299
00:16:53,279 --> 00:16:57,080
which meant that if you win at and this again,

300
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,919
this is my interpretation of the court case. I've spoken

301
00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:04,359
to some pretty good tax attorneys all over the country,

302
00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:10,160
even a guy, a lawyer out of Texas Tech. I

303
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:11,799
think his name is Brian camp. I showed it to

304
00:17:11,839 --> 00:17:13,960
Bob the other day. I wrote a wonderful article about

305
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,599
his interpretation of as well. But now you can see

306
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:21,119
my point about Bonaparte, meaning that we now just want

307
00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:23,799
to look at what the profit is on the year,

308
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:26,759
and if you guys can gamble, for instance, at five

309
00:17:26,799 --> 00:17:31,640
different casinos, and we use a yearly session method per Bonaparte,

310
00:17:31,839 --> 00:17:34,240
do you now see how there's no reduction to take

311
00:17:34,279 --> 00:17:37,680
because you didn't have a loss at a casino so.

312
00:17:37,799 --> 00:17:41,319
Speaker 3: Well, but I had losses at the at some of

313
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:42,480
the casinos, right.

314
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,880
Speaker 1: Okay, that's then where we would then look at what

315
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,799
you lost at what casino, and let's just say you

316
00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:50,440
lost twenty k. Okay, we would come in with a

317
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,920
two thousand dollars reduction and then it would be a

318
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,440
two thousand dollars reduction times or tax rate. Not really

319
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,839
that bad. I know some of these's are not that bad.

320
00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 3: But okay, so let's let's move to the sports better, right,

321
00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:07,559
and let's say that you could apply this method or

322
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,440
either method. But let's take a sports better that has

323
00:18:14,319 --> 00:18:19,559
let's say one hundred million dollars worth of wins and

324
00:18:19,759 --> 00:18:23,799
ninety eight million dollars worth of losses, and this would

325
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:26,799
not be I mean, this would be a very top

326
00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,079
level sports Better with a two million dollar win. But

327
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:35,440
to have those kind of volume would not be unusual.

328
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,240
Speaker 1: No, No, that would not be unusual. On all, I

329
00:18:38,279 --> 00:18:40,160
see figures like that all the time. Of course, I

330
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:41,920
know that you know the ROI is going to come

331
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,720
out of the sports betting world, and so you know,

332
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:47,440
if a Sports Better was forced to take the ten

333
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,720
percent ten percent reduction off grocery seats, no, they cannot continue.

334
00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:55,359
They would have no viable business option going forward. They

335
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,480
would owe so much in tax every year it would

336
00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,640
be an absolute disaster. So they're going to have to

337
00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:04,160
look down on other methodologies of accounting in order to

338
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,519
keep the gross winds and the gross losses as low

339
00:19:07,559 --> 00:19:09,559
as possible, and then we'll come in with a ten

340
00:19:09,599 --> 00:19:12,359
percent reduction. And I think, if we can actually look

341
00:19:13,079 --> 00:19:16,799
at these two court cases, that's wonderful. But what I

342
00:19:16,839 --> 00:19:19,359
actually want to say too is that when the client

343
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,559
provided me his documentation the other day for the state

344
00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:26,200
audit that I'm working through right now, I was actually

345
00:19:26,279 --> 00:19:29,640
under the impression, just logically in my head, that I

346
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,240
thought Bonaparte was going to be a better way to

347
00:19:34,319 --> 00:19:37,359
keep net wins and losses down, and it was actually

348
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:43,480
funny that under Bonaparte his gross winds ended up being

349
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,400
like two hundred and thirty thousand dollars because he had

350
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,759
a big win at a casino. But under the sessions method,

351
00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:50,559
I actually was able to go all the way as

352
00:19:50,599 --> 00:19:54,680
low as one hundred and like fifteen thousand. So that's why,

353
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,079
And I'm really happy that I got to see that

354
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,759
example here kind of sitting here in November and December

355
00:19:59,759 --> 00:20:02,880
of the year, so I realistic it can start telling clients, Hey, look,

356
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,200
I have an extra piece of homework for you, but

357
00:20:05,279 --> 00:20:06,880
this is how we're going to, you know, keep this

358
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,319
reduction as low as possible, keep them in both two

359
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,359
different ways of accounting for me, and then we'll go

360
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:14,839
figure it out at the end of the year.

361
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 3: You know.

362
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 1: And similar to the to the crypto thing, Hey, when

363
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,480
do we really want to realize the tax? Did we

364
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:21,440
want to go hipho? Did we want to go li fo?

365
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,000
You know, even companies that value their inventory have a

366
00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:28,559
few different ways to do it. As you can see,

367
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:30,480
the gamblers are now just going to have to bring

368
00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:33,759
in a different form of accounting practices so that we

369
00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:35,640
don't have to use, like your instance, that one hundred

370
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:38,000
million in and ninety eight million out. No, that person

371
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:40,039
is going to go pay so much tax. They'll never

372
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,240
they'll never gamble again.

373
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:45,079
Speaker 3: So let me ask you this. Let's say that I'm

374
00:20:45,079 --> 00:20:51,000
a sports better and on Sunday NFL, I make two

375
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:57,920
or three hundred bets over many different sports books. Can

376
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,440
I count the whole day as a session?

377
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,599
Speaker 1: Yes, that would be a twenty four hour session, where

378
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:05,839
then I just want to know your net from the day.

379
00:21:06,079 --> 00:21:08,400
I don't care that you made one hundred thousand dollars

380
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,000
of bets. I just want to know you won seven

381
00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:14,079
thousand today or I lost seven thousand dollars.

382
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,039
Speaker 3: That's actually really helpful.

383
00:21:15,799 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, extremely helpful. And that Schlollenberger versus commissioner. That's the

384
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,359
session method of accounting used that twenty four hour window,

385
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,319
and that and if we can kind of continue down

386
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,720
that path right now, as you can see, as the

387
00:21:28,799 --> 00:21:31,960
numbers net out, we have less of a reduction to take,

388
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,640
which is, you know, absolutely wonderful for ourselves.

389
00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 3: We'll be right back with more from Gary Condler. We're back.

390
00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:45,000
We talked to a different accountant who said that every

391
00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:48,640
you know, sports book for the day would be a

392
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,119
different session, or or if you were playing in the casino.

393
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,519
If you were playing at Caesar's and then walked over

394
00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:58,920
to the balagio, those would be two different sessions.

395
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, So my interpretation of Shallenberger is going to be

396
00:22:02,519 --> 00:22:04,759
if your sports betting in a twenty four hour window,

397
00:22:04,839 --> 00:22:06,640
to me, that counts as a session. I don't care

398
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,640
if it's across eight different books. When a new session

399
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,039
would count would be when you change the game type.

400
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,960
So if I went from sports betting to them playing blackjack,

401
00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:21,200
that would technically, under the law, then be a brand

402
00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,359
new session. To have another calculation, for I go more

403
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,240
on game type changing during the course of a twenty

404
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,759
four hour period rather than maneuvering all over all over

405
00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:35,440
the sports betting websites, because of course all of my

406
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,759
clients are going to be on fifteen different websites a

407
00:22:38,839 --> 00:22:41,640
day moving money around. So I like a twenty four

408
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,119
hour session under the game type. But like I said,

409
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,920
if you're now going to move to roulette and blackjack

410
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,920
and three card poker, those technically under the law would

411
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:53,200
start a brand new session.

412
00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 3: What about if I'm in the casino and I play

413
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:02,359
blackjack and three card poker and roulette on the same day.

414
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,920
That's still all one session as well, because it's.

415
00:23:05,519 --> 00:23:08,519
Speaker 1: I would view that that because the game type changed

416
00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:10,920
from three card ploker to box jack to roulette, that

417
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,519
that starts a brand new session. But I would be

418
00:23:13,599 --> 00:23:16,799
more than okay if my gamblers took a twenty four

419
00:23:16,839 --> 00:23:21,279
hour session just for the sports betting or whatever game

420
00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:24,720
type their there. They play on a daily basis. Some

421
00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:28,079
of us obviously like one one thing I'll just say too,

422
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,960
and you know one thing that I would really love,

423
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,640
you know, and searched out every single tax court case

424
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,440
that I could over the past couple of months. And

425
00:23:37,519 --> 00:23:40,000
of course everyone's going to come to me get and say, Gary,

426
00:23:40,039 --> 00:23:42,519
can you find me some court case where we can

427
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,480
use a yearly session method for our accounting across the board. No,

428
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:49,799
I don't have that court case right now. You know

429
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,480
that that would really make things, you know a little

430
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:55,319
bit different for me. But you know that's something that

431
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,359
I wouldn't be comfortable putting, you know, necessarily on a

432
00:23:58,440 --> 00:23:59,200
tax returnaround.

433
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 3: Actually, if you only played in one single casino for

434
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:04,119
the whole year, then.

435
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,599
Speaker 1: Then see you got it, you got it, because then

436
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:12,039
we use bonaparte, so youre are one hundred percent correct. Now, well,

437
00:24:12,279 --> 00:24:16,079
if you look at this objectively, I think one of

438
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,519
the problems that I have is is that the BBB

439
00:24:20,519 --> 00:24:24,319
now doesn't apply the same to every person out there. Okay,

440
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,680
so let's take a look, for instance, at my arbitrage

441
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,519
sports betters, who they're more than okay making their two

442
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,319
or three cents on every dollar, but they kicked the

443
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,599
volume up into the millions of dollars every year. Well,

444
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,880
if the arbitrage better under Schallenberger versus commissioner, he's never

445
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,759
going to have a losing day, meaning what reduction applied

446
00:24:45,759 --> 00:24:48,839
to him. Okay, for my sports betters, you can see

447
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,039
I have these two core cases. For my slot players,

448
00:24:52,039 --> 00:24:55,759
I have these two cord cases cash game poker players,

449
00:24:55,799 --> 00:24:59,200
I have these two court cases. Well, my business idea

450
00:24:59,319 --> 00:25:02,880
actually starts because I started in the tournament poker space

451
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,440
of things, growing up playing being a poker player. The

452
00:25:07,599 --> 00:25:10,720
one the court cases that actually do not really work.

453
00:25:10,759 --> 00:25:13,079
These two court cases don't work for my tournament poker

454
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:17,640
players that are high rollers traveling to forty different casinos

455
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:21,079
during the year, stop to stop. They could still bring

456
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,799
me a million dollars in profit every year and lose

457
00:25:23,839 --> 00:25:26,279
at thirty seven of the forty casinos they played at

458
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,920
during the year, meaning that if I used Bonaparte, well,

459
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,880
now I got to go look at thirty seven different

460
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:35,440
casinos that all had losses. Because you know, tournament players,

461
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,359
we don't cash every tournament. Yeah, Bonaparte doesn't really work

462
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,720
for them that great. Shallenberger don't really work great because

463
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:45,720
they're pretty much only firing one or two bullets a

464
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:49,519
day on a tournament. They're probably both losses. All right, fine,

465
00:25:49,599 --> 00:25:52,000
maybe nets out a little bit, So I have a

466
00:25:52,039 --> 00:25:55,000
problem with that. It doesn't apply evenly across the board

467
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,079
to everyone. But you know, we're just really going to

468
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,640
have to put our best foot forward, continue to do

469
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,680
our research on these cases and just see what we

470
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,559
can come up with. But you know, for a majority

471
00:26:05,599 --> 00:26:08,799
of the clients, I'm going to start applying these two

472
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,400
cases see where we come. But as you can see,

473
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,799
I still have a few people I gotta worry about.

474
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,599
Speaker 3: Do you have a solution for tournament poker players or

475
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,440
are they just basically screwed?

476
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,279
Speaker 1: Not? Right now, I think that the example that I'm

477
00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:26,640
providing to you is a very small amount of the

478
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,720
tournament player. I'm kind of referring more to that high

479
00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:32,880
roller player who's playing in one hundred k buy ins,

480
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,359
two hundred and fifty k buy ins all over the

481
00:26:35,839 --> 00:26:38,920
all over the world. I think for like your regular

482
00:26:39,599 --> 00:26:42,480
you know, a tournament player who just brings me a

483
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,119
couple hundred thousand of income a year. Yeah, he's probably not.

484
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,640
He may not visit more than ten casinos on the year.

485
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,279
Probably not that big of a headache. He'll he'll profit

486
00:26:51,319 --> 00:26:53,240
at maybe half the casinos and then we'll have to

487
00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:56,359
apply a loss on the other half. So for the

488
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:58,279
one percent of the one percent, No, I don't have

489
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,559
anything yet for them, and we're going to have continue

490
00:27:00,599 --> 00:27:01,160
working through that.

491
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:06,079
Speaker 2: Right now, what type of gambler would benefit from creating

492
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,359
an LLCES corp and using that for tax purposes?

493
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, great question. So when I kind of look at

494
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,160
a situation like you know, creating the S corporations for

495
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,240
clients is again remember you know, they are management companies.

496
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,359
They're not gambling entities. They're management company of your gambling

497
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,960
behavior and activity. When I want to look at S

498
00:27:32,039 --> 00:27:35,400
corporations for clients, it really has everything to do with,

499
00:27:35,799 --> 00:27:39,359
you know, specifically, what state do they live in, what

500
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,519
type of expenses do they have, do they want to

501
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:46,440
be putting money into retirement accounts. Do they have other

502
00:27:46,599 --> 00:27:50,000
partners or shareholders in in this So it's really not

503
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,799
like a set way of saying, oh, you're definitely going

504
00:27:52,839 --> 00:27:56,319
into an S corporation. I don't really think, for instance,

505
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:57,920
if you know you're not going to come with a

506
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,200
lot of deductible expense is it really doesn't make too

507
00:28:01,319 --> 00:28:03,559
much sense for you. So if you take a look,

508
00:28:03,599 --> 00:28:07,480
for instance, at like my online sports betters who just

509
00:28:07,519 --> 00:28:11,200
sit at home all day and bet sports, they're not

510
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,160
going to be coming to me with a lot of expenses,

511
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:16,440
which means they're not going to see too many tax

512
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,240
savings because they don't really have the deductions. Whereas if

513
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,200
we then go look at that tournament poker player, all right,

514
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,920
he's spending a lot on travel, spending a lot on meals,

515
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:32,839
maybe carmiles, he has a coach, solvers, dudes in subscription,

516
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:37,039
legal accounting fees, everything like that, that may make a

517
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:42,319
little bit more sense. There also are other opportunities where

518
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,079
you know, there are about ten twelve states out there

519
00:28:46,119 --> 00:28:49,359
that exist in the United States that do not allow

520
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,039
gambling losses at the state level. So let's just play

521
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:56,559
an example out you know, you're from Connecticut. You go

522
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,279
up to Foxwoods, you have two and a half million

523
00:28:59,359 --> 00:29:02,839
dollars a W two g's you break even during the year.

524
00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:06,519
Federally you end up paying no tax, but then to

525
00:29:06,559 --> 00:29:08,799
the state of Connecticut you pay tax on two and

526
00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:12,279
a half million dollars. So, as you can see, it's

527
00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:15,599
not just a yeah, you go into an escort where

528
00:29:15,599 --> 00:29:18,400
you don't. It's kind of a case by case basis

529
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,680
of what's going to make the most sense to them.

530
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:22,759
You know, I'll have a lot of then you know

531
00:29:22,839 --> 00:29:25,279
players that can you know, put a lot of money

532
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:29,119
away in retirement accounts. That's probably the most common question

533
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,279
I'm going to be probably answering today after this podcast,

534
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,240
is how we're getting all of the money into solo

535
00:29:34,319 --> 00:29:38,440
for oh one k's defined benefit plans doing four oh

536
00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:42,359
one K. So a lot of different examples, and you

537
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,079
know that's kind of why you just come here and

538
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,319
consult with me for a half hour, figure out the situation,

539
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,880
see what's going to work best for you, and then

540
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,000
I'll start running some numbers for them, and then we'll

541
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,319
put our best foot forward. If getting them into the

542
00:29:54,319 --> 00:29:55,559
best option going forward.

543
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: Casinos typically make available to the players annual win loss statements.

544
00:30:04,079 --> 00:30:08,359
I actually do not pick them up because they're almost

545
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:14,519
always inaccurate. Yes, do you advise players to use these

546
00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:18,079
as a form of keeping records or I think, yeah.

547
00:30:17,839 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: It's a really good question because I've seen a lack

548
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,160
of consistency coming out of the IRS whenever I see

549
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,160
things questions. I've sometimes seen clients go through an audit

550
00:30:29,559 --> 00:30:33,200
and I've seen IRS agents be perfectly okay with what

551
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,640
we call third party documentation meeting that print out from

552
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,000
Bolaggio or Cosmo. It says your profit at the end

553
00:30:39,039 --> 00:30:41,480
of the year, and I've seen agents say, no, we

554
00:30:41,519 --> 00:30:43,440
don't accept those. How did we know your card was

555
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,599
in the machine the entire time? I wish it was

556
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,440
a little bit more black and white. I am one

557
00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:51,200
hundred percent with you, though, Bob, in the stance that

558
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,400
they're not very accurate all the time. The online ones

559
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,559
are even worse. A lot of times they're a little

560
00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:01,599
confusing about what they added back into back and bonuses

561
00:31:01,799 --> 00:31:05,400
and what you unlocked during the year. I think it's

562
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,839
a solid starting point, in my opinion of a rough

563
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,680
ballpark of you know, what does the casino know about you?

564
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:17,319
But there's always a lot of determinations, and this is why,

565
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,240
like we're just going to have to do better, you know,

566
00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:23,000
with our record keeping. And that's why, like I'll more

567
00:31:23,079 --> 00:31:26,480
or less pay more attention to my clients Excel spreadsheets

568
00:31:26,799 --> 00:31:28,839
than I will ever look at those profit and loss

569
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,200
statements because first off, they could be a little bit

570
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,759
difficult to read. Sometimes you'll see the coin in coin

571
00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:37,920
out jackpots, you'll have no idea how the calculation was

572
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,200
calculated through. So I like to go a little bit

573
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,839
off of more spreadsheets because I do not trust those

574
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:46,960
pnls at the end of the year, but they are

575
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,720
a good starting point in some instances.

576
00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 2: Do you recommend players file on time or getting extension

577
00:31:54,359 --> 00:31:54,799
and why?

578
00:31:55,319 --> 00:31:59,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, great question. I always recommend clients to file timely.

579
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:03,440
I know a lot it could be a little burden

580
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,799
some do. I have a lot of clients that say, Gary,

581
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:08,359
I want to wait until that transcript comes out so

582
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,519
I know what the w TWOG total was, so we

583
00:32:10,559 --> 00:32:13,960
don't have many red flags. Yes, I do understand that.

584
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,440
But what people really have to have an understanding here

585
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,480
is is that realistically, whatever tax you owe at four fifteen,

586
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,000
even if you put an extension in and you file

587
00:32:24,079 --> 00:32:26,960
one month later, you now just kicked in almost five

588
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:31,240
percent of penalties and interest per month. So what I

589
00:32:31,319 --> 00:32:33,720
try to do a lot of times is I will

590
00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:36,319
kind of you'll never see me really doing a tax

591
00:32:36,359 --> 00:32:39,720
return on April fourteenth or April fifteenth, because what I

592
00:32:39,759 --> 00:32:42,720
will do on that day is I'll try to pinpoint

593
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,119
what tax returns just came in, who needs numbers ran

594
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,119
so that if I can just go throw around some

595
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,960
loose estimates for them calculate a fifty thousand dollars tax liability.

596
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:58,559
I'll then kind of recommend that client at April fifteenth

597
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:01,799
to go send in doll because at least if it

598
00:33:01,799 --> 00:33:03,640
looks like you made a payment there then is no

599
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,839
outstanding liability when me and you filed a month later.

600
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:11,720
So it's a little bit all over the place because

601
00:33:12,079 --> 00:33:15,279
I'm a little bit different when it comes to estimated

602
00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:18,759
tax payments, because I am fully understanding that if I

603
00:33:18,839 --> 00:33:22,559
have a gambler up a couple hundred thousand dollars in

604
00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:25,319
the first couple of months of every year, yeah, probably

605
00:33:25,319 --> 00:33:27,240
the last thing I want them going to do is

606
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,880
sending it one hundred thousand dollars estimate with nine more

607
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,359
months to gamble with, they may kick their stakes up,

608
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,160
they may go play other things. And now, all of

609
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,720
a sudden, we just gave one hundred thousand dollars interest

610
00:33:40,799 --> 00:33:43,960
free loan out to the government, and then I can

611
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,359
only unlock that for you twelve months from then if

612
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,319
you then gave it all back. So I run a

613
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,720
lot of my estimates for my clients during December. I say, hey,

614
00:33:55,839 --> 00:33:57,759
please just send me a number, let me run it

615
00:33:57,759 --> 00:34:00,759
through my tax calculator. Let me just send you off

616
00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:04,480
with roughly where I think your tax bracket is going

617
00:34:04,559 --> 00:34:06,640
to fall. If you want to be the person to

618
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,400
go send the estimate in wonderful, But I need you

619
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,719
to roughly know as me and you kick into twenty

620
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:16,400
six of a rough ballpark of things, because I do

621
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:19,000
not want to see these penalties and interest to come through.

622
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:24,159
He just did a return for a person who sold

623
00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:28,480
off a lot of crypto, didn't really do any planning

624
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:31,800
during the year. We filed that tax return in October.

625
00:34:32,559 --> 00:34:35,199
He owed about two million dollars and he's going to

626
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,000
get that bill for about two and a half million

627
00:34:37,039 --> 00:34:39,800
dollars once penalties and interest kick in. We can't have

628
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,480
that going forward. So my rule of thumb is to

629
00:34:43,519 --> 00:34:45,639
just say, hey, work with your tax prepair, work with

630
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,360
your CPA in December, have a good understanding of roughly

631
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,679
where you fall into. If you want to send the

632
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,320
estimate in great okay. If you want to go pay

633
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,599
it by four fifteen, that's fine too. That could sometimes

634
00:34:57,679 --> 00:35:00,960
just kick in what we call an underpayment penalty. To me,

635
00:35:01,079 --> 00:35:05,000
the underpayment penalty is a little bit more immaterial because

636
00:35:05,039 --> 00:35:06,920
I have a lot of clients who just know that

637
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,039
they can make a little bit more money investing their money,

638
00:35:11,039 --> 00:35:13,920
put it in high yield savings accounts, make a very

639
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,960
safe bet through Kelshi or whatever we want to look

640
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,559
at that will cover them on the underpayment penalty, and

641
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:23,480
then we kind of proceed accordingly that way. So it's

642
00:35:23,519 --> 00:35:25,800
okay if people file late it, just make sure that

643
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,800
you get a solid amount in by four fifteen so

644
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,519
that we don't kick any these extra penalties.

645
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,079
Speaker 3: Actually don't you need to get it in by January fifteenth.

646
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: That is when the Q four estimate is due from

647
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,599
the prior year. Okay, So that would be like making

648
00:35:41,679 --> 00:35:43,880
all of your estimates throughout the year, that is when

649
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,480
that estimate is due. But if you don't have that

650
00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:49,719
estimate due on that day, you're just kicking in what

651
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,559
we call that underpayment penalty. Okay, I'm okay with underpayment penalties.

652
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:58,079
They're a little bit smaller. And then so what the

653
00:35:58,119 --> 00:35:59,960
client can also do, and I'll do this a lot

654
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:02,639
for people, is we can follow what we call one

655
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,920
hundred and ten percent you know rule, meaning that you know,

656
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,159
let's just say, for instance, last year, when you look

657
00:36:09,159 --> 00:36:12,159
at your tax return, line twenty four on the second

658
00:36:12,199 --> 00:36:14,320
page of the ten forty will say total. This is

659
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,119
your total tax. Let's just say, for instance, in this example,

660
00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:20,199
it's ten thousand dollars. If they go now have a

661
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:24,119
big winning year and make way more than tax on

662
00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:26,679
ten thousand dollars, they can take one hundred and ten

663
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,519
percent of that ten thousand dollars tax, which would be

664
00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:32,599
eleven thousand dollars, and I will make them probably send

665
00:36:32,599 --> 00:36:35,840
that to the treasury right here in December. That will

666
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,079
cover them on their underpayment penalty, and then they'll then

667
00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:41,920
owe the rest by April fifteenth. So that is another

668
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,440
way to do things, and that is kind of what

669
00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:48,199
I highly recommend because I know my gamblers are very,

670
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,519
very smart sharp individuals. I know that if I give

671
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:54,639
them three months with an extra fifty thousand dollars, they're

672
00:36:54,639 --> 00:36:56,159
going to go make some money off of it for

673
00:36:56,199 --> 00:36:59,480
the most part. So but again, everyone's going to be

674
00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:01,880
different here. I have clients that love to follow their

675
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,480
estimated tax schedules to the team. Okay with that, but

676
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,360
let's be let's be smart about where we're kind of

677
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,599
putting the money to and from. But I care most

678
00:37:11,679 --> 00:37:15,880
about not surprising people come March twenty seventh of not

679
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,920
sticking them for one hundred K tax bill. Now we're

680
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,360
running bad in March madness or whatever is going on

681
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,639
at that time of year. And now we have no

682
00:37:23,679 --> 00:37:26,320
idea where the tax dollars are coming from. Because you know,

683
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,000
I will have a lot of gamblers that will ask

684
00:37:29,079 --> 00:37:32,960
me to go on installment plans, pay them monthly. I

685
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,440
think you can do it up till seventy two or

686
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,840
eighty four months. Yeah, but just remember, penalty's interests are

687
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,760
going to accrue. We don't want that happening either, because

688
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,360
the interest rates are getting a little higher right now.

689
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:43,039
I know they're coming down a little bit, but they're

690
00:37:43,039 --> 00:37:44,400
still pretty high.

691
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:51,159
Speaker 2: At the beginning of Trump's second administration, he had Elon

692
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:56,960
Musk in charge of the Department of Government Efficiency, and

693
00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,239
it's slashed a lot of federal workers in including IRS.

694
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,840
So I'm guessing there's a lot fewer auditors this year

695
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:06,039
than there were last year.

696
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is a lot. You know, we may be

697
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:13,480
down half of their staff right now. This has to

698
00:38:13,519 --> 00:38:16,719
help gamblers, doesn't it. I would assume that it will

699
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:21,039
definitely cut audit rates down because there's just less auditors

700
00:38:21,039 --> 00:38:23,760
to be able to do the work. There's even less

701
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,239
employees over there. My firm, we're constantly on the phone

702
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,360
every day with the I R S I run. We

703
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,360
also have a big international tax side of things for

704
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,639
gamblers as well. There's always a lot of letters to

705
00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:41,559
clear up on a daily basis here, and even my

706
00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:44,719
office is having a hard time getting on the phone

707
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,599
with the I R S. It takes a long time,

708
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:52,880
long waits on hold. And yeah, there's not a lot

709
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:54,880
of employees over there. So I think it's going to

710
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:59,480
be interesting going forward of what the auditibility rate could

711
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:01,960
could rue be in And you know where I see

712
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,760
auditibility come from is, Yeah, clients that are going to

713
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,760
have a higher adjusted gross income are going to be

714
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:12,199
subjected to higher audit rates. You know. I think if

715
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:14,559
you kind of look at anyone under about four hundred

716
00:39:14,559 --> 00:39:18,280
thousand dollars of adjusted gross income, your audit percentage is

717
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,400
probably under one percent. But as you start to approach

718
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,519
into the millions of dollars of adjusted gross income, you

719
00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:27,480
can start to see that raise to five to seven percent.

720
00:39:28,159 --> 00:39:32,039
But again, I realistically just see audits kind of tracked

721
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:36,000
through missing tax forms on their tax returns. So I

722
00:39:36,039 --> 00:39:38,199
think that's one of the most important things that we

723
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,800
really want to, you know, sit here and discuss, just

724
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,880
so that we can figure out, you know, how do

725
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,199
we keep the letters and how do we keep the audits,

726
00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:51,079
you know, at the lowest rate possible. I normally tend

727
00:39:51,159 --> 00:39:52,719
to see that, like if I've ever been in an

728
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,800
audit or represented a client, I always really see like

729
00:39:56,079 --> 00:40:00,920
pretty favorable tax stances once we provide all of our

730
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,760
paperwork and things like that. The current state audit that

731
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,920
I'm dealing with right now, the client just had absolutely

732
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,159
every piece of document that this auditor could have ever

733
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,559
need and everything that could ever have been questioned, And

734
00:40:15,599 --> 00:40:17,840
in my opinion, they're going to just breeze through this

735
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,960
audit without any issues. But again, the audit is not

736
00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:26,079
about challenging gambling wins and losses. The audit is about

737
00:40:26,119 --> 00:40:29,440
the classification of how the client filed as the professional

738
00:40:29,519 --> 00:40:32,400
versus the amateur. So as you can see here, I

739
00:40:32,519 --> 00:40:35,440
really don't see the wins and losses challenged too much.

740
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,760
I will see missing half a million dollars of w twogs.

741
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:42,000
You could then be asked to prove it. But for

742
00:40:42,039 --> 00:40:44,320
the most part, some of them come on the classifications,

743
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,239
which is obviously what we always want to be looking

744
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,800
into in situations like this, you know of who can

745
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,400
qualify as the professional and who should file as the amateur.

746
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:56,119
Speaker 2: Here, if someone wishes to retain you for tax or

747
00:40:56,199 --> 00:41:00,000
other services, how do they get in touch with you?

748
00:41:00,199 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, So the best thing that I that I always recommend,

749
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,000
you know, our website is a you know, COLLMERCPA dot com.

750
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:12,000
And then there's a client inquiry portion of our website

751
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,519
and for the most part you can kind of just

752
00:41:14,639 --> 00:41:16,960
leave some notes in there they get pushed all on

753
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,519
to me. But then what I'll do is is that

754
00:41:19,679 --> 00:41:22,800
any inquiry that I get, I will always schedule for

755
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,599
the most part of just a free half hour consultation call,

756
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,000
because as you can see, I need some time to

757
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,400
kind of speak to everyone on the individual level to

758
00:41:33,519 --> 00:41:36,599
see what is going on. You know, what are you

759
00:41:36,639 --> 00:41:39,719
gambling at, what other type of job do you have,

760
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,320
are you married, what state are you from? What else

761
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,840
is going in? You know. A couple of minutes before

762
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:49,239
this call, it was just kind of assisting a client,

763
00:41:50,559 --> 00:41:53,679
you know, who sold off a lot of stocks, stocks

764
00:41:53,679 --> 00:41:56,800
and cryptos this year. Yeah, his income is now over

765
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,000
one point three million dollars, which means he now kicked

766
00:42:00,159 --> 00:42:03,800
in a new tax called a MT tax. So as

767
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,480
you can see, even just from the morning that I've had,

768
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,000
the conversation is going to go way different with him

769
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,400
than it is going to go about what else you

770
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,719
could have potentially going on in your tax return. So

771
00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:18,360
that's realistically the way that I go about things, kind

772
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,880
of just telling the clients, Hey, what documentation do I

773
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:23,239
want you keeping? What's our next steps from here? How

774
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,840
do we go about estimates? So half hour consultation calls

775
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,519
what I always recommend, and that will get us in

776
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:31,840
a good spot and then we'll kind of talk next

777
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,760
steps and go that way. But you know, that's kind

778
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,960
of how I work my schedule and you know what

779
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:39,159
I do here at this office.

780
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 2: When I was in your office, we were talking partly

781
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,599
about the Bonaparte versus Commissioner, and you refer to a

782
00:42:48,679 --> 00:42:53,519
piece by Brian Camp who is a a law professor,

783
00:42:53,679 --> 00:42:57,559
and his personal legal opinion about how to do that.

784
00:42:58,639 --> 00:43:02,400
I tried to find that and could not. So my

785
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:05,440
request to you, Gary, I'll shoot that over to you,

786
00:43:06,079 --> 00:43:11,079
send it to both Richard and me, and Richard can

787
00:43:11,119 --> 00:43:13,599
put it into the notes.

788
00:43:13,199 --> 00:43:17,039
Speaker 1: Of the Absolutely I'll do that right after this call.

789
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:19,159
Not not a problem at all. It's a great read.

790
00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:22,320
It was kind of one of the first people that

791
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:27,360
I was able to see write something so incredible for

792
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,519
the gamblers all over and then I kind of reached

793
00:43:29,519 --> 00:43:31,079
out to him, and me and him actually had a

794
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:34,199
two or three hour conversation because I'm more in the

795
00:43:34,199 --> 00:43:36,679
weeds of the tax system. Okay, I see what the

796
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,800
tax software looks like, I know all these numbers that

797
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,519
go into the return. He's more from the legal piece

798
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:44,000
side of things. So it's actually great to just put

799
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,400
my head together with another like minded individual, but more

800
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,920
from a legal piece, because remember, at the end of

801
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,679
the day, I'm just going to be providing my interpretation

802
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,079
of these court cases, but I also have to protect

803
00:43:56,119 --> 00:43:59,239
my firm and my clients on the back end with

804
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,840
you know, other tax attorney's opinions, just so that there's

805
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,920
proper sign off on these things, so we don't really

806
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,360
create issues, you know, down the line. Because when I

807
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,000
kind of look at the BBB as a as a

808
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,440
projected schedule out, well, let's just take a look at it.

809
00:44:13,679 --> 00:44:15,599
I do the first tax return that has the ten

810
00:44:15,639 --> 00:44:19,599
percent reduction in tax here, let's say February of twenty seven,

811
00:44:20,519 --> 00:44:22,760
which means I would roughly see an audit come towards

812
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,559
the end of twenty twenty eight, which meant that if

813
00:44:25,599 --> 00:44:28,199
we then went through let's say the audit process, the

814
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:32,079
appealant process, and tax court, we could be looking at

815
00:44:32,119 --> 00:44:34,960
a ruling on the BBB coming out in twenty thirty.

816
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:39,239
That's a big gap of how many years they are

817
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,679
going to be doing these tax returns before there can

818
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:44,840
be another legal precedent that can be set in the

819
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:48,360
place to either help gamblers or kind of hurt them.

820
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,880
And you know, I think where the other interesting situation

821
00:44:54,119 --> 00:44:57,239
is coming out of right now is these new websites

822
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,719
popping up like Bob and I discussed last week of

823
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,440
these CALCI websites popping up where they are now labeled

824
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:10,440
themselves as predictive markets. Now, if you look technically at

825
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:15,199
the legal definition of what a predictive market is, it

826
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,440
now doesn't look like gambling income. It looks as what

827
00:45:18,559 --> 00:45:21,599
is called a twelve to fifty six contract, which is

828
00:45:21,639 --> 00:45:23,159
now treated as a capital gain.

829
00:45:24,039 --> 00:45:26,559
Speaker 3: But that would be a short term capital gain right.

830
00:45:26,679 --> 00:45:28,760
Speaker 1: Correct, It would be a short term cap gain. But

831
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:32,880
where this is important is because gambling wins and losses,

832
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,639
which was amended in the BBB I believe, is under

833
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:41,519
IRC one sixty two. Capital gains in futures contracts is

834
00:45:41,559 --> 00:45:44,880
not under IRC one sixty two, which means if it's

835
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,119
treated as a long war a short short term cap

836
00:45:49,159 --> 00:45:52,880
gain in the future, then there's no reduction to take. Now,

837
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,760
this is heavily debated in the community right now. Even

838
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,239
some of your biggest accounting firms in the world world,

839
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,920
like your KPMG's, are writing articles, but they're not taking

840
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,280
a tax stance on it right now. It's all if

841
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:10,320
then statements. So I do follow the legislation daily. There

842
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:14,199
are a lot of states kind of suing one another

843
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,679
back and forth of what this income should be labeled

844
00:46:17,679 --> 00:46:21,320
that as of right now, it doesn't have a precise

845
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:25,480
label of cap gain or gambling income. So we're really

846
00:46:25,519 --> 00:46:27,199
going to just have to put our best foot forward

847
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:30,000
as we hit here into tax you're twenty six and

848
00:46:30,159 --> 00:46:32,159
see the kind of the best way to handle it

849
00:46:32,199 --> 00:46:36,599
on tax returns. So I'm the most you know, I'm

850
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:39,159
trying to figure out, and again when I go about

851
00:46:39,199 --> 00:46:41,079
these things, I care the most of just asking that

852
00:46:41,119 --> 00:46:43,840
one question. What tax form is going to be issued,

853
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,920
I don't know yet from Calshi. I think it'll be

854
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,280
what's called the ten ninety nine miscellaneous. Ten ninety nine

855
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:54,280
miscellaneous can be inputed in a few different spots of

856
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,639
the tax return and not cause that algorithm to ever

857
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,440
kick out any issues. So I am kind of telling

858
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,840
clients right now it's very much of a case by

859
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:07,199
case basis and we'll just have to monitor the situation.

860
00:47:08,159 --> 00:47:11,039
Because even on that call I had right before this podcast,

861
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,559
the guy was saying, well, you know what, if, for instance,

862
00:47:13,559 --> 00:47:16,159
in the next eight days they don't say anything about it,

863
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,400
and they go say something on January fourteenth, is it

864
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:22,840
retrospective back to twenty five or is it now an

865
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,159
onward looking towards twenty six. Yeah, we don't know. We're

866
00:47:26,159 --> 00:47:27,800
going to just have to see because they're going to

867
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:32,960
have to put out a little bit more legal not ramifications,

868
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,840
but guidance of how to proceed accordingly, because I think

869
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:37,960
they're going to be You're going to have too many

870
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,519
people questioning these things come February March, when everyone's wondering

871
00:47:41,559 --> 00:47:43,360
what the count how to count the income.

872
00:47:43,079 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: In we're near the end of our hour. One of

873
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,800
the things you briefly touched on but didn't define is

874
00:47:52,559 --> 00:47:57,519
the difference between a professional and a non professional gambler. Yeah,

875
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,719
we talked about how that works.

876
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so the IRS is going to sit there and

877
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,400
use the following definition. They will say, you know, taxpayer

878
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:10,119
can not taxpayer must, taxpayer can file to be a

879
00:48:10,159 --> 00:48:14,400
professional gambler if they spend a substantial amount of time

880
00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:19,840
in the hobby for profit for livelihood. And it's really

881
00:48:20,039 --> 00:48:22,639
just in the past the twelve or eighteen months where

882
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:25,400
I just saw the IRS add that last piece in

883
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:30,159
the four livelihood amount, meaning you know, that's where we

884
00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:32,400
want to sit here and kind of consult about these

885
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:35,800
things and really take a look and say Hey, okay,

886
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,559
what income do you have outside of gambling? Meaning so

887
00:48:39,679 --> 00:48:42,480
let's say who's the problem here. Okay, the problematic person

888
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,239
is the lawyer who comes to me every year brings

889
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,760
me a two hundred and fifty thousand dollars W two

890
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,920
from his day job. He goes and makes fifty thousand

891
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,719
dollars gambling in Vegas. I don't care on what game

892
00:48:55,519 --> 00:48:57,760
thinks he's you know, wants to go professional with it.

893
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,559
But now he wants to travel the country and write

894
00:48:59,599 --> 00:49:03,280
off all his travel expenses. That person's not going to fly.

895
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:06,480
That will be picked up right away from the irs.

896
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,039
They will be looking at that W two income to say, no, no, no,

897
00:49:10,159 --> 00:49:12,960
you made two hundred and fifty thousand at your day job.

898
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:15,800
You only made fifty k from gambling. You got to

899
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,199
move the income back into the amateur gambling box. That

900
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,360
is the one person that will be a kind of question.

901
00:49:22,519 --> 00:49:25,360
But you know, how many times a year do you

902
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,400
think I have? You know, let's say kids from out

903
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,159
of New York City working for Blackrock and Citadel, they

904
00:49:31,199 --> 00:49:34,559
make a million dollars on W two, but they were

905
00:49:34,599 --> 00:49:36,320
paid to not work all year. They were bought out

906
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,320
of their contract, paid to not trade all year, paid

907
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:42,280
to not share any information. So that client may come

908
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:44,119
to me with a million dollar W two and a

909
00:49:44,119 --> 00:49:46,880
couple hundred thousand dollars gambling. But as you can see

910
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,920
under the definition, he didn't spend a substantial amount of

911
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:53,119
time at his day job. Now he could qualify as

912
00:49:53,159 --> 00:49:57,280
the professional gambler. So it is really realistically a case

913
00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,920
by case basis. I have seen a few over the

914
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:03,639
past couple of years, Like maybe in clients that I do,

915
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,800
I've seen three or four letters, maybe one a year

916
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:10,199
kind of classify or the IRS just saying, hey, you

917
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,440
got to move the income back into amateur. Yeah, there's

918
00:50:13,639 --> 00:50:17,199
arguments for everything. If you ever think, for instance, that

919
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:21,320
you're on the verge of being a professional art amateur,

920
00:50:21,679 --> 00:50:23,880
do you put your best foot forward in that kind

921
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,679
of Excel spreadsheet and you start tracking your time a

922
00:50:26,679 --> 00:50:29,360
little bit, treat it more like a business. That is

923
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,639
what the IRS will want to see. In the case

924
00:50:31,679 --> 00:50:33,760
of this state audit that I'm doing right now, the

925
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:36,800
client was able to document everything, which looks like he

926
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:41,159
is running a legitimate business, which he is. Everything was documented.

927
00:50:41,199 --> 00:50:44,920
The more documentation the better. It's more buttoned up. It's

928
00:50:45,079 --> 00:50:49,599
almost a very hard stance sometimes for the IRS to take.

929
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,800
And I've read a lot of state audits and I've

930
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,159
read a lot of court cases, and when we look

931
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:59,159
at that word, you know, it's like the motive for profit. Okay,

932
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,480
the irs, the states are always going to have a

933
00:51:01,519 --> 00:51:06,159
tough time arguing that US gamblers weren't doing this for profit.

934
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:09,360
I see that actual side lost a lot because it's

935
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,760
impossible because obviously, when we all gamble, we all do

936
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:14,679
it to make money. I know some of us do

937
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,719
it for you know, hobby, but for the most part,

938
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,000
we're always doing it to make money. In this So

939
00:51:19,039 --> 00:51:21,000
if you ever think you're on the verge of it, yeah,

940
00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:23,440
you're going to have to consult someone. We want to

941
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,800
be as smart as possible. But the more documentation that

942
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,400
you can make it look like a business, the better

943
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:29,000
off it'll be.

944
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 2: If you if you're trying to profit and let's say

945
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:37,280
you make one year out of five year ahead, is

946
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:38,199
that a show stopper?

947
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: No, No, not at all. I have I seen prior

948
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,400
tax years looked at to say, hey, was there a

949
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,000
motive for profit? Did the client ever turn a profit?

950
00:51:47,519 --> 00:51:49,679
I've seen it asked a few times but I've never

951
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:54,960
really seen it challenged on a on a regular continuing basis.

952
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,320
You know, you'll start to see like a lot of

953
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,280
the tax law and stuff that you read are you know,

954
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:01,639
you'll see they are going to have rules all over

955
00:52:01,679 --> 00:52:04,360
the place for businesses of how they turn profit. Yeah,

956
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,559
gamblers are going to be a little bit different. I

957
00:52:06,599 --> 00:52:08,760
have clients that bring me a million dollar or a

958
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:11,119
couple million dollar profit every year, and I don't see

959
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:13,599
a profit for four or five years after that. No,

960
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,960
it's not going to just stop them dead in their

961
00:52:16,039 --> 00:52:19,159
tracks of filing that way. If I ever saw it being,

962
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,679
you know, asked more, Yeah, I would make sure I

963
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:23,840
tell my clients because I always think the most important

964
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,840
thing that I could be doing on a daily basis

965
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:29,880
is really just helping the industry have an understanding of

966
00:52:30,039 --> 00:52:32,599
you know, what are we okay to, what are we

967
00:52:32,639 --> 00:52:35,159
okay doing, and where do we stay far away from

968
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:38,840
and then kind of monitoring that situation. And that's why

969
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:40,440
I can just really sit here and tell you as

970
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:42,400
long as we kind of tie to our tax forms,

971
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,480
use these other accounting approaches to back into our profit,

972
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:48,239
that's realistically the smartest way that we really want to

973
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:51,679
go about things in the future here, and of course

974
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:54,280
things can change from time to time. I have a

975
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,199
lot of gamblers who started with me filing as an

976
00:52:57,199 --> 00:53:00,440
amateur gambler and now they're a professional gambler. Now they're

977
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,599
back to amateur gambler because they picked up another day job. Yeah,

978
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:07,519
classifications can go, they can change over a year over year,

979
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,519
but I want to keep more of a consistency basis.

980
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:13,840
But using that definition of what a professional gambler is,

981
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:15,639
as you can see, I can come in and change

982
00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:17,639
year over year if we if we really deem that

983
00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:19,880
it was you know, true, and we can defend the stance.

984
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Gary Condler. The getting to know,

985
00:53:27,079 --> 00:53:30,000
getting to hear about you has changed whether I'm going

986
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:32,800
to gamble it else I'm going to stay in the business.

987
00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:35,760
Whereas before I heard about you less than a month ago,

988
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:44,000
I was seriously planning to stop. So possibly others in

989
00:53:44,039 --> 00:53:46,280
the audience are in a similar situation.

990
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, wonderful. I'm really glad we can help. And so,

991
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,280
you know, like I said, whoever really needs support, I'm

992
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,360
more than I'd be more than happy to work with everyone.

993
00:53:55,519 --> 00:53:58,199
Like I said, case by case basis everyone's a little

994
00:53:58,199 --> 00:54:00,760
bit different here. But let's just make sure that we're

995
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,880
kind of providing and these gamblers all the profit information

996
00:54:05,039 --> 00:54:08,159
so that we can proceed accordingly. You know, we're still

997
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:09,679
you know, we're still going to take a little bit

998
00:54:09,679 --> 00:54:11,800
of reduction, but if we can be smart about these things,

999
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,199
we keep it as low as possible and then we

1000
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,280
kind of maneuver from there. But yeah, just really happy

1001
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:19,199
that it can be in this space, you know, just

1002
00:54:19,199 --> 00:54:21,280
to assist people like you. So pleasure to be on

1003
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,599
and thank you so much for having me.

1004
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. Thank you, Richard, go out and

1005
00:54:26,519 --> 00:54:30,639
hit lots of Royal Flush is Everybody Free. Audio post

1006
00:54:30,639 --> 00:54:31,079
production

1007
00:54:32,639 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 1: By Alphonic dot Com.