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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and thank you for joining us again Seafood Matters.

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I'm proud to welcome you to my hundredth podcast episode.

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I'm delighted to mark this milestone with a good friend

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of the series, Mike park Obe. Over the years, Mike's

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generosity with his time, honesty and insight has made these

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conversations something special and I genuinely appreciate that. Today, rather

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than talking about industry headlines, I want to focus on

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your journey the man behind the role at the Scottish

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White Frist Producers Association. Hi, Mike, Good morning, Jim.

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Speaker 2: How are you.

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Speaker 1: I'm good, Thank you, I'm good?

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Speaker 2: Are you? Yeah? Yeah? Good. Down in London yesterday. So

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back in the office today and away on holiday tonight,

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which is always a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Excellent. We will earned I'm sure. Let's start by taking

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you back to the early eighties when fishermen blockaded ports

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and harbors and protests over imported fish. Where were you

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at that time and looking back now, was that one

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of the biggest situations of your career or did the

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real test later the.

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Speaker 2: I guess it was a test for others at the time.

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I mean, I recall back in nineteen seventy five, I

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think just before I entered the industry full time. I

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was just entering the industry. I recall the vessels blockading

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Aberdeen and being able to walk from one side to

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the other, and I think that was in frustration at

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the import of fish from outside the country and the

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prices and the prices that it delivered to Scottish fishermen,

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I guess, and the wider UK cause I know that

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Grimsby was involved in that as well. But I think

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that was an early indicat to me Jim, that the

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industry was there and it would stand up for itself

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and it would put up with any nonsense I respect

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of a what government was in place. My one recollection

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of that, Jim as well, was that a lot of

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vessels got rits in their masts, and I think a

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lot of them had to pay money, and a lot

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of them were warned if they did it again, they'd

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end up in jail. Because if you recall, the oil

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industry was booming in Aberdeen at that time and you

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were pretty much bringing a substantial industry to its knees.

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So although it was a gesture from the fishing industry

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at that time, I think it was a lesson that

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if we were going to protest in the future, it

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had to be in a different way. And I think

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that was an early lesson for me that you only

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get away with doing that sort of once in your lifetime.

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If you do it twice, then you will pay the

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penalty for it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And what was your thoughts about the outcome, because

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I know at the time we didn't really feel there

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was any benefit because it didn't stop them.

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Speaker 2: No, it didn't stop the imports. The industry got back

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to see. I mean that was frustration being vented. The

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industry go back to see go on with what it

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did best and tried to make a crumb because in

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those days, I remember, you know, there was die getting

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pulled over, fish, fish getting withdrawn, It's all sort of stuff.

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And I remember being in one protest around that time

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where they were actually dragging fishermen were actually dragging the

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fish off the the backs of lorries and tipping it

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out in the road. I remember it was Whitings and

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I think I think the Whitings were coming in from

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Ireland at the time.

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Speaker 1: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Company in Aberdeen you may remember, called Club n Yeah,

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used to be. So I recall, you know, fishermen jumping

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on the lorry and tipping the boxes of whitings out

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on the road, which I think there was a few

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boxes tipped, and everybody kind of thought, this is this

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is not the right thing to do, because you know

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that whiting was sold to them by fishermen in Ireland

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and you're doing the fishermen down in a different country.

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So I think it was very very short lived.

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Speaker 1: Where did you start in the industry, what drew you

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to leadership, who influenced you early on, or mentors, family colleagues.

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Speaker 2: I was brought up pretty much fifty yards from the

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sea gym, and my playground was the harbor, and I

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started going on the local vessels at a very early age.

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And indeed a friend of mine and myself at a vessel,

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a small creole vessel that we used to row out

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every morning from about nine years old. So that triggered

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my interest in fishing. And all I ever wanted to

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be was the top. I used to dream about, you know,

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I'll get a fishing boat and I'll be the best

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fishing whenever. Of course that was never the case, but

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that's what drove me on and all through my teens

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I used to spend you know, trips away rock Hall

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with long liners, and my uncle had a vessel called

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the Trustfall. It was about thirty seven foot scene at vessel.

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Every weekend, every school holiday, probably from the age of twelve,

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I spent aboard that sick every day I was out.

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And why I went back, I'll never be sure, but

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I did. Every weekend I'd go back again and would

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be sick again. And then I entered the industry full

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time after being in the Merchantnavy for a while aboard

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the Argonauts. Spent seven weeks there, and then aboard a

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vessel called Helene sat My ticket carried that vessel, got

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my first seeing it vessel at twenty one. It was

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a eighty seven foot seeing it vessel called the Jazzarine.

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And then I built the Genebula, bought another boat called

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the Dauntless, so I took them at one point. So

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that that was pretty much my career pathway. The people

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that influenced me all the way along where my uncle David.

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He died at a very early age when I was

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in the Merchant Navy at seventeen. He passed away, but

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he was instrumental in my younger career by allowing me

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aboard the boat and being a very gentle character, never

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ever put you under stress, always within reason, allowed you

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to do what you wanted to do, and at the

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same time trying to bring you on to do more,

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especially in regards to what you were capable of. So

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at the very early age, my uncle David, David Andrew,

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he was instrumental in there, and of course my father

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was in the background as well, and he did a

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merchant navy career, in a Royal Navy career, although he

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hadn't beat the fishing for any lent a period of time,

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and then you come up through the ranks and of

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course every skip a year with when you're a young boy,

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you know, as an example to you like the Darrown

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I was on there, Alert Macintosh, Billy Malcolm where it

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was an influence. People like Davy Smith were a big,

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big influence because you know, some of your listeners may

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not be aware that at that time they argueaut which

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was owned and skippered by Davy Smith and his brother

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Robert Smith. They were the top in the UK, and

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not just an Aberdeen or Peterhead. These guys were beating

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big trawlers that were going to Iceland and in terms

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of their annual gross that were making extortion amounts of

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money because of their skill set. So he was he

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was a strong influence in what I did. But I

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also recall that is that career pathway was taking place.

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I always recall the work that was being put in

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by people like Gilbert Bucking Wly Hay. You know, I

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used to look up to Wally Hay a lot because

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I saw them as the leaders of an industry and

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an industry that I was in. It was a very

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important industry in my eyes, and for me, these guys

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had floated to the top and they were doing a

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tremendous job. So in terms of my fishing career, it

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was people like Davy Smith that spurned me on, But

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in terms of where I was going to go eventually,

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it was people like Gilbert Bucking, you know, big names.

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It was people like Wally Hay, and you know a

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latter than that, there was people like Bob Allen in

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the SFF as well, and then you had people coming

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along like Alex Smith, who was chairman Association prior to

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me and then went on to lead the SFF and

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the good thing is that you pull out different aspects

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of how they deliver their own model in terms of leadership,

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you draw down from them the best bits that you

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think you need for your personality to then go deliver.

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So very early age I became involved in the committee

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structure of the port structures of the association work my

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way through. I was always a confidence speaker. I always

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had a reasonable brain. I always tried to find balance

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in anything I did, and it sometimes that was seen

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as a strength and other times that was seen as

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a weakness because you should be trying to balance things.

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You should just tell them what you want and you

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go and deliver. So even trying to be balanced in

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there sometimes is seen as a negative or a positive.

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And all the way through Jim I I did things

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like join the speakers clubs to give me the ability

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to talk in public. I did that for two years.

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I then embarked in a degree in European politics through

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the Open University, and that then taught me how to

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write and write position papers, because I'll admit my writing

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skills in my English was pretty poor. Mathsie is always

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good at but that sort of side of it, you know,

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I had to improve my abilities. And then as you

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move through that leadership pathway, you learn all sorts of tricks.

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You first understand that you've got to get to know people.

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You've got to get people to know you. You've got

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to get people to like you, because if they don't

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like you, they I've got to deal with you. So

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in terms of leadership, there's a lot of skill sets

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in there, and all the way along, I've tried to

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draw down from the people I've met or the situations

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I've been in, and I think at the end of

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the day, it's made me who I am. And you know,

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I'm the first to admit that there'll be people out

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there that think my style is not good, it's not

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tough enough, and there'll be others out there that realize

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it's a difficult job, and you do have to find

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balance and find situations where everybody wins. You know, everything's

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going to be almost you know, a good agreement is

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a you know, it's a positive sum game. Everybody's going

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to get something out of it. And that's that's the

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position that I try to push all the time. Now,

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try and look at, you know, the people you're dealing with.

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Try and look at what they're thinking about and from

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their side, what would they be wanting, and just try

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and work it out on that basis.

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Speaker 1: It's all very interesting and I get exactly everything you're saying.

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The one thing that you mentioned there, but there will

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be some people that don't like your style and that

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unfortunate or annoying thing about people like that, they wouldn't

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do it. They would criticize who was doing it, but

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they wouldn't take it. On the other thing that, I

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totally respect you what you're saying about the characters you mentioned,

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like Willie Ay and people like that. If I had

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to describe them, I would say big, correct you. No,

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Obviously we've been in different paths and things. Two of

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the people I would say have been a big place

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in my days, my life and big characters, Nori Bremner

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and Johnny Thompson.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's funny you should mention the both of them,

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because just yesterday, you know, I was thinking about doing

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the Cup of the podcast, and obviously you know the

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main people in my life. Norri wasn't a main person

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in my life, but when you needed Nori, he was

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there and he always gave you information that you required,

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and he was always there to assist you. And that

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was a good thing about Norri. He knew what he

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was talking about and if you needed him, he was there.

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I never sat around the table with Norri. I sat

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around the table with Johnny Thompson, and Johnny was one

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of the biggest thinkers. I think I've come across that

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if john was asked a question around the table, he

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wouldn't immediately spring into an answer. He would sit there

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and for a few seconds ponder and sort of, you know,

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put his answer together before he told you. And he

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was very you know, he was very capable, very able.

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And I still recall some of the big discussions around

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the table at the Scottish Whitefish when fall broke away,

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the Fisherman's Association Limited broke away to do with issues

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over Europe and him and Tom Hay and they were

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a formidable due, a formidable due, they really were. And

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at the same time, you know, I talk about people

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that infanced my life previously. At that time you had

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people like George Sutherland heading up to Whitefish as well,

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who himself had a big brain and was a big thinker.

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And of course you had George McCrae in there, who

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was the legal secretarated at the time. So there was

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always strong people involved in the situation. And you know,

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my path we could have taken a different direction had

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it not been for George Sutherland, because when George stepped

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down from the association, he pinpointed two people to come

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in the back of him. One was Alex Smith as

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chairman and myself as vice chairman. And had George probably

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not seen something in me at that time, I could

243
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still be at sea fishing. Who knows, I don't know.

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My career might have taken a different pathway. But when

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you look back in history, there is always big players

246
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in the game at some point, whether it be Johnny Thompson,

247
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whether it be John Hay, whether it be Sorry tell

248
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me you know, whether it be others like like Gilbert

249
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Buck and Wally Hay. There always seems to be a

250
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,279
conveyor belt of people coming along that can make a difference.

251
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And these were people that did make a difference and

252
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you've got to hold your heart up to them because

253
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at the same time everyone was going to see. You know,

254
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this is not something you do in isolation. I do now,

255
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but at that time even I recall, you know, coming

256
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home on a Friday or a Thursday, in the shower,

257
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in the suit, pick up a suitcase on a flight

258
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away to Brussels, and you were doing that every other week.

259
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,840
We'll trying to carry out the you know, fishing business

260
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with your boat and support your crew and make money

261
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,039
and pay the bank and everything. So these were high

262
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stress situations. But the people in there, like Johnny, like Tom,

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like Norny, knew what they were doing. They knew what

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they were doing, and I guess we've got to look

265
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back and thank them for the commitment that they made

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at that time.

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Speaker 1: I actually feel that says a lot about you, like

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because your generous, we are praise of others. I think

269
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that shows a confidence that is worthy of the position

270
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:44,039
you have, fairness, and it's making me, you know, when

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you're talking about the different people of a situation that

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I'll never forget, because well, obviously I'll never forget. It

273
00:14:52,919 --> 00:14:57,960
was about the early seventies, late sixties, early seventies. He

274
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:03,000
was landing in Logan and I was going up a

275
00:15:03,039 --> 00:15:05,960
lot to buy fish in Lochinver Market. At a time there

276
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were a lot of lossy boats landing there at the

277
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time I NS as we used to call I never

278
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sleep and I had an order. I was young at

279
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:22,279
the time, my goodness, and George mackay lochinver fish selling.

280
00:15:22,519 --> 00:15:25,200
George Ramsey used to come up from Aberdeen. There was

281
00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:31,919
a big, big market and strong, strong buyers and I

282
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feel did me no harm cut my teeth with big

283
00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:41,120
players like that. And I got an order from a

284
00:15:41,159 --> 00:15:46,360
customer of mine in Edinburgh for Haddick small Haddache and

285
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Johnny had landed. He had the horizon at the time,

286
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and so I bought them, and of course the other

287
00:15:53,639 --> 00:15:56,919
buyers ran me up them in a big price and

288
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I got the fish, put them to the customer very happy.

289
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That was on the Thursday. They were tied up for

290
00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,440
the weekend. That was our pattern, and he was backing

291
00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:09,759
again on the Tuesday, and I was up when he

292
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come up to me, Mike, and he says to me,

293
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how did you get on with my hudaches last week?

294
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I says, I find john thanks, I no problem. I

295
00:16:22,159 --> 00:16:25,879
had an order I got. I bought them for the order.

296
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,919
The customer was happy with them. Oh, he says, I'm fine,

297
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,960
pleased to hear that. He says, I was a wee

298
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,120
bit worried you paid too much for them?

299
00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:41,039
Speaker 3: When have you ever heard the skippers say that before?

300
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:44,159
But I just thought a measure of the man. He

301
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:49,080
was looking further than a lot of people, and he

302
00:16:49,279 --> 00:16:52,200
was what he was worried about. I paid too much

303
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,159
and I wouldn't be buying more, and I would take

304
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:55,840
me out.

305
00:16:55,679 --> 00:16:56,360
Speaker 1: Of the market.

306
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,080
Speaker 2: What a forward thinker just been speaking the jers. I

307
00:17:00,159 --> 00:17:03,000
was thinking about Nori Bremner and one of the stories

308
00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:06,480
about Nori Brimner, and I think I've told you before

309
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,160
that when I first carried my first vessel at the

310
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,000
age of twenty one, the skipper's instructions we have phone

311
00:17:12,039 --> 00:17:14,839
Nori and the Sunday before you sail and he'll tell

312
00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:17,279
you where to go and issue his night follows day.

313
00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:19,640
That's what he did. In the very first hall, I

314
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,880
had about one hundred bucks as a green and black

315
00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:23,839
and we were in within two days. But one of

316
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,000
those stories about Nori was that we fished in Norwegian

317
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,880
Zone a lot. The majority of my career, especially in

318
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,759
the summer months, was out off Norway, in south Down

319
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:39,359
off Denmark, and I recall one particular Sunday morning sailing

320
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,440
out the van used to pick me up about nine

321
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:43,519
o'clock through to Aberdeen and you'd be out to the

322
00:17:43,519 --> 00:17:46,319
harbor by ten. Because your cow would be with you

323
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,079
for ten fifteen years, they know what to do about

324
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,440
the boat and you're out by ten and used to

325
00:17:52,559 --> 00:17:55,000
call the harbor. You would then leave the harbor and

326
00:17:55,039 --> 00:17:57,440
what we would normally do is we would make sure

327
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,799
that the cord ends were okay and everything was okay,

328
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,720
get the darn ready for shooting when we got to

329
00:18:02,759 --> 00:18:05,000
the grounds, and then you would set the line to

330
00:18:05,039 --> 00:18:07,359
where you were going and all of the gnarlate would

331
00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,039
take here about twelve hours to get to the Norwegian line.

332
00:18:11,519 --> 00:18:13,359
And in those days, what you had to do was

333
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,519
call in an hour ahead of entering the Norwegian zone,

334
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:19,599
giving your position, your speed and any fish you had

335
00:18:19,599 --> 00:18:21,400
on board. That's what you had to do. And you

336
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,240
had to do the same same coming out. And in

337
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,880
this particular Sunday it was flat cam. It was an

338
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,000
absolute glorious day. You don't get many of them, but

339
00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:33,039
the sea was like glass years you're coming out of

340
00:18:33,039 --> 00:18:35,519
the harbor. You could smell the cut grass off the

341
00:18:35,519 --> 00:18:37,400
golf course and it was just it was just a

342
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,119
lovely day to be sailing anyway. We had word lunch,

343
00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,400
went away to bed, and I would normally get up

344
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,000
about three hours before we got to the Norwegian line,

345
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,559
would have a supper, would raid the net on and

346
00:18:49,599 --> 00:18:51,240
that would be it. Then you would go to your

347
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:54,359
bed again for the rest of that trip. So came

348
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,680
out of the harbor, set the watch, and the watch

349
00:18:57,759 --> 00:19:01,279
changed every hour. Never thought thing about it. I got

350
00:19:01,799 --> 00:19:04,559
a shout at about six o'clock to wake me up

351
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,920
to come up into the wheelhouse. I come up into

352
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:08,920
the wheelhouse, sat down in the chair, put on the

353
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,559
news in the radio, and here was the news broadcaster

354
00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,519
saying that a vessel from Montrose with eight crew on

355
00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:22,279
board had been reported missing and debris had been found.

356
00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:25,720
And I remember one of the crew was sitting in

357
00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,279
a seat next to me, and I said to him,

358
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:32,920
who could that be? Who else is registered Montros? Of course,

359
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,400
my boat, the the Nebula, was registered in Montros with

360
00:19:35,559 --> 00:19:37,519
eight of a crew. And I'm saying to him, who

361
00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:39,920
else from Montrose has eight of a crew? And I

362
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,720
was sitting thinking and we couldn't think of anything because

363
00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:45,920
there we are sitting steaming at ten knots flat cam

364
00:19:46,039 --> 00:19:49,880
night heading out to the Norwegian line. Unknown to me.

365
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:54,519
Back home, my friend had received a call from the

366
00:19:54,559 --> 00:19:57,480
office to say, you need to get to Mike's house.

367
00:19:57,759 --> 00:20:00,920
You need to get to this house right now, reported missing.

368
00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,440
So my friend drove from Intros to my house and

369
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,440
his wife took the kids and put them in the

370
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,000
bedroom and proceeded to tell my wife that we had

371
00:20:11,079 --> 00:20:14,279
been reported missing. Debris had been found. I remember my

372
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,400
dad sent to me later on that he'd put on

373
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:19,359
the teletext and he was reading it, and you know,

374
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,880
he was a marine guy, and he couldn't understand what

375
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,240
happened to make an eighty five foot vessel just disappear

376
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,440
with nothing, you know. But what they did was they

377
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,960
found the APUB. So the APERB was something that, as

378
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,000
you think, it floats off of the mast and it

379
00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:38,000
sends a signal to satellite. They'd found the apup. Now,

380
00:20:38,319 --> 00:20:41,960
unknown to us, during the time we've been sailing off,

381
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,160
the APIRB had fallen off the top of the wheelhouse

382
00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:52,000
into the water, sent a distress signal. Helicopters launched, helicopters launched,

383
00:20:52,039 --> 00:20:54,680
they found debris, so all of a sudden they thought

384
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:56,359
this was a real sinking, and it was up in

385
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,079
the teletext and everything. As I say, my friend was

386
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,720
at the house, the kids were in the bedroom, his

387
00:21:01,759 --> 00:21:04,000
wife was looking after the kids. They were in tears,

388
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,480
and even my friend, who was a skipper himself, was

389
00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:08,640
thinking what could have went on there? The only thing

390
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,920
is a collision. But if there's a collision then the

391
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,000
other vessel would have reported it if they were stuff,

392
00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,480
so no one, no one could work out what was

393
00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:18,160
going on. And there's us aboard of vessel sailing blindly

394
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,319
into the Norwegian sector and not knowing fully what was

395
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,759
going on behind us. But the thing about Nori was

396
00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:27,319
Norri had been contact that norriy had been on the

397
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,920
radio and he was calling us up on the radio,

398
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,200
and he himself had worked out well, if he'd sailed

399
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,240
out of Aberdeen and he was going across the Norwegian

400
00:21:35,319 --> 00:21:39,799
so he'll have to report in now. And so just

401
00:21:39,839 --> 00:21:42,240
an hour before we got to the Norwegian line, I

402
00:21:42,319 --> 00:21:45,319
called up stone Havan Radio and said, this is dn Nebula.

403
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,119
I'd like to book in the Norwegian sector. And the

404
00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:51,799
response was dinebla, are you okay? And I said, yeah,

405
00:21:51,839 --> 00:21:53,799
I'm fine, and he said, well he should be aware

406
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,319
that you've been reported missing sunk now with debris for

407
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,160
around eight hours. Because this happened only two I was

408
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,920
out the harbor for eight hours. Now at that point,

409
00:22:03,279 --> 00:22:06,920
Norri had been monitoring the radio and he heard me

410
00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:10,240
call up stone Haven radio and immediately he phoned the

411
00:22:10,279 --> 00:22:14,359
house and said he's okay the fine and then I

412
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,359
then proceeded to call home, spoke to my wife and

413
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,640
then turned the vessel around, came back into port because

414
00:22:20,759 --> 00:22:23,200
all the crew's wifes were up to high door. Wasn't

415
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,599
it just my family? Every family was up to high door.

416
00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:29,839
Thunderboat Round came into port. Obviously there was news drama

417
00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:31,799
and everything dealt with that, and then we took a

418
00:22:31,839 --> 00:22:33,759
week off laying the harbor for a week just to

419
00:22:33,839 --> 00:22:36,240
kind of get our thoughts back together again. Then we

420
00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:40,559
went away after that. So that was Norriy's part in that.

421
00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:44,759
And it's interesting that experience that I had then was

422
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:47,920
slightly traumatic, not not for me thatout, but it was

423
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,079
for the families. And you'll recall that some years ago

424
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,279
Jim I went away to row, from Scotland to Denmark

425
00:22:54,319 --> 00:22:58,240
for charity, from stone Haven to Handsome for charity. It

426
00:22:58,359 --> 00:22:59,799
was going to take me, I think it was sixteen

427
00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:03,279
day I trained for ages to do it. I left

428
00:23:03,279 --> 00:23:05,559
the harbor in store Haven. I'd been rowing for like

429
00:23:05,599 --> 00:23:08,359
a day and a half. Two days my satllite phone

430
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,599
went down. Every day I was checking in twice a day, morning, night, morning, night.

431
00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:14,319
I had somebody monitoring the weather for me, Derek Cardinal,

432
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,640
and I would call him see what like the weather was.

433
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,440
And I knew there was bad weather coming up, and

434
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,400
I was going to be just side of the west

435
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,880
bank with the Shaw water when it came. Now unknown

436
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,880
to me, the helicopter was out rescuing a crew from

437
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,559
a fishing boat, and then the helicopter had been asked

438
00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:33,519
to look for me because two days I'm not reporting.

439
00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:36,319
I was then reported missing at sea in this pelfoot

440
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,680
rowing boat. And I was rowing away and I looked

441
00:23:40,759 --> 00:23:42,440
up and I seen that, and I know there would

442
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,640
be problems back home because I hadn't been in contact.

443
00:23:44,839 --> 00:23:47,119
And I looked up and I saw a helicopter coming

444
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,960
towards me, and I knew what that was. I knew

445
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,880
exactly what it was, and he hovered over me. And

446
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,559
when he hovered over me, I could actually speak to

447
00:23:54,599 --> 00:23:56,359
him in the sat phone because it was that close.

448
00:23:57,279 --> 00:23:59,000
He said, well, we'll winch you up and I said, no,

449
00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:01,039
it's fine. I'm just going to keep going because you know,

450
00:24:01,279 --> 00:24:03,359
no leaving the boat because I'm selling that for charity

451
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,039
as well. And he said, okay, if I leave you now,

452
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:09,599
we're not coming back, so he left. I then proceeded

453
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,200
to continue to row for about another three hours, and

454
00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:15,440
eventually I just put my horse down and I thought,

455
00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:18,599
I can't do this because there's me going to be

456
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:23,240
another fourteen days rowing to Denmark across shallow water, bad weather,

457
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,000
and my family is sitting at home going through the

458
00:24:27,039 --> 00:24:29,960
same feelings that they did when we were reported missing

459
00:24:30,039 --> 00:24:32,519
on the Denbula. And that's when I thought I can't

460
00:24:32,559 --> 00:24:34,519
do this. So I turned the boat around it and

461
00:24:34,559 --> 00:24:37,119
started rowing back to Scotland, the same as I'd done

462
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,480
with the Denebula decades beforehand. So it's sorry, it's just

463
00:24:40,519 --> 00:24:43,359
an anecdotal story that I thought would.

464
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: My goodness, it's incredible. Course, what was your first moment

465
00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:53,240
of real responsibility that made you think I can do this?

466
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 2: I guess the moment of first responsibility was to try

467
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,240
and recover the cod stocks. I put it in a

468
00:25:00,279 --> 00:25:03,440
belief within the industry that we could do this and

469
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,240
take a pathway that allowed it to do it with

470
00:25:06,279 --> 00:25:11,200
some degree of responsibility. And everyone knows that back of

471
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,000
my younger career with big bank loans and everything that

472
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,079
they know that light like others the days of Blackfish,

473
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:19,000
I was in there, and I was probably one of

474
00:25:19,039 --> 00:25:22,720
the biggest roles in there. I remember coming to terms

475
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,160
with myself and saying, right, this is my mea culpa,

476
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,200
I'm guilty. That's fine, let's leave it behind, but let's

477
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,240
try and work with others and coordinate thoughts to try

478
00:25:31,279 --> 00:25:34,480
and get into some sort of sensible sustainable harvesting so

479
00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:37,720
we can't try and protect the stocks and recover the stocks.

480
00:25:38,279 --> 00:25:41,920
So that was my first challenge. But the real challenge

481
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,039
for me and one of the most difficult ones gim

482
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:46,839
was and it you know, it took me to the

483
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,240
brink of just walking away from it was Days at Sea.

484
00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:53,240
When Days at Sea came and I think it was

485
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,559
two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, and that

486
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,839
was a way of continuing to reduce effort in the

487
00:25:57,839 --> 00:26:00,599
cod stocks, will limit the amount of daysssels can go

488
00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:03,279
to see and that was driven by the EU because

489
00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:05,480
obviously we were a member of the EU at the time,

490
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,440
and at one point, one particular year of thing was

491
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:10,680
about two thousand and eight. I might be out one

492
00:26:10,759 --> 00:26:12,519
year or whatever, but thinks about two thousand and eight,

493
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:14,359
that was the year where we're down to well, we're

494
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,480
going to be down to ninety days at sea year

495
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,440
now there was no vessel could really operate on that.

496
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,519
There were some vessels catching less than five percent cod.

497
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:27,440
They were out of the scheme, they were involved, but

498
00:26:27,519 --> 00:26:29,720
some of the larger vessels they just couldn't live on

499
00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:35,000
ninety days. And that's where I sat down with government

500
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:37,160
to try and work out what can we do here

501
00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:39,960
to give you the confidence that you can allow these

502
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,799
boats to go to see and know they're not catching cod.

503
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,400
And that's when I pushed for cameras and vessels. No,

504
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,880
I didn't want cameras in the fleet long term, but

505
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,599
I realized that that had to be a short term

506
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,960
solution to the problem we faced. Now. Obviously, when you

507
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,519
try and introduce something like that, you get pushing pull,

508
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,720
you get people that see why are doing it and

509
00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:03,119
they want it, and then you've got others who are

510
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,720
dead against it because it doesn't impact them and they

511
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,640
shouldn't have to do it. And it was never about

512
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,559
putting cameras on all the industry. But I do recall

513
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,920
one meeting I went to Peterhead. I came out my

514
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,160
tires and my car had been slashed. Internally, there was

515
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,920
one but that I was going to get sacked in

516
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,480
the meeting and various other things, And it was that

517
00:27:25,519 --> 00:27:27,359
point I really thought, you know, I'm really trying to

518
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,240
do the best year, and I'm trying to provide a

519
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,440
short term solution to a problem that could have the

520
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,359
potential to bankrupt a certain section of the fleet. That

521
00:27:35,519 --> 00:27:38,839
was one of the times that I came against some

522
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,599
elements of the industry as I tried to put my

523
00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:44,599
mark on trying to solve a problem. And at one point,

524
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,400
I think we started with twenty odd vessels with cameras,

525
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,200
and latterly the last year, I think it was thirty

526
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:54,359
odd cameras vessels with cameras. So it worked, it provided

527
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,680
that short term solution, but it did create a high

528
00:27:57,759 --> 00:28:00,839
degree of frustration and conflict within the industry.

529
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,079
Speaker 1: Must have asked you as well, like I should do

530
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,519
I need to be in.

531
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,079
Speaker 2: This Yeah, it's And remember at that point I still

532
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:13,480
had a vessel. I was still going to see I

533
00:28:13,559 --> 00:28:16,359
wasn't getting paid. I used to pay my own satellite

534
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,039
bills for my phone and my satellite bills at that time,

535
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,759
or about eleven twelve hundred pound because I was phoning

536
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,880
into the secretary the association every day. Yeah, so it

537
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,839
was for me. It was trying to do the right

538
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,480
thing for an industry that needed help and it needed

539
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,240
people stepping up front. Whether it was me or anyone else,

540
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,920
you do need people to step up front and try

541
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:37,759
and make a difference. But that was one of the

542
00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:42,599
most traumatic periods that I had in the industry. And

543
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,519
I say it was trying to provide a solution to

544
00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:47,559
a problem and at the end it succeeded, but not

545
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,440
without its stresses and strains my head.

546
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,599
Speaker 1: When you were talking about that, I was thinking and

547
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,440
I thought, gee, when you mentioned that about the Days

548
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,279
at Sea, I thought, she I thought it was a

549
00:28:59,319 --> 00:29:04,200
lot long longer further before that, the two thousands. But

550
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,680
I think I know where I'm confused, and I take

551
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,359
it they were very different, the Days at Sea and

552
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,759
the eight day tie ups.

553
00:29:13,839 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. The eight day tie Ups was an internal Scottish

554
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,279
thing and that was to try and improve prices. That's

555
00:29:20,319 --> 00:29:23,119
what happened there was to try and reduce effort bit

556
00:29:23,119 --> 00:29:25,960
of improved prices as well, because there's less fish coming ashore.

557
00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:29,839
The days at c scheme was introduced by the EU

558
00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:33,319
to reduce impact on cod because at that time they

559
00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:35,799
were still trying to recover the cod stocks. I mean,

560
00:29:35,839 --> 00:29:40,240
you could put in additional selectivity measures and you got

561
00:29:40,359 --> 00:29:42,480
days back from Europe that went into a pot and

562
00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:45,079
you all got two or three days extra. But remember

563
00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:47,480
some of our boats were doing there, I don't know,

564
00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:50,559
two hundred and forty two hundred and sixty days at

565
00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:54,039
sea a year, and to come from that down to

566
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,319
ninety days it was just impossible. You just couldn't make

567
00:29:57,359 --> 00:30:00,440
a living. So we needed to find a way of

568
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,640
trying to get some of these vessels out of the scheme,

569
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,720
and that that was the only way I could see

570
00:30:05,759 --> 00:30:09,319
to deliver it was to give the managers the comfort

571
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,039
that what you said you were doing, you were actually doing.

572
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,279
And that was the role of the cameras at that time.

573
00:30:14,279 --> 00:30:16,640
It was like a get out close and as I say,

574
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,960
I have no regrets at worked. They got a lot

575
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,880
of vessels through, but it did cause stress and strain

576
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:23,519
at the time.

577
00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: The early partier career. Yes, the WFP. Was there moments

578
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,279
that didn't go to plan and how did that spape

579
00:30:34,799 --> 00:30:36,680
the way you led afterwards?

580
00:30:37,599 --> 00:30:40,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was always moments that didn't go to plan.

581
00:30:40,279 --> 00:30:42,480
Bothe in terms of trying to lobby the EU for

582
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:48,000
quotas and various other things. But we did learn over

583
00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:51,440
time that if you want to deliver anything, you need

584
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,400
to work with people rather than work against people. And

585
00:30:56,039 --> 00:30:58,000
a way back, I think it was in two thousand

586
00:30:58,039 --> 00:31:01,960
and one, i'd un a Branking was Fisheries Minister at

587
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,720
the time. You recall that the fleet went on strike.

588
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,599
It was a result of the cord again they closed,

589
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,880
EU closed vast areas of the North Sea and not

590
00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:13,160
north of Scotland. Fleet all came inside, caught nothing. But

591
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,880
year one and year two hurricks prices fell to the

592
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,079
deck and the industry went on strike. And I recall

593
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,519
going to discussions down in Parliament with people like John

594
00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:29,880
good Lad, Bob Allen, Alex Smith at the time, trying

595
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,000
to get money to see the fleet through, and we

596
00:31:33,039 --> 00:31:35,079
did get money. We got twenty I think it was

597
00:31:35,359 --> 00:31:39,400
twenty seven million. We managed to get twenty five of

598
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,880
that went to decommission I think two million went to

599
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,799
technical measures to help the fleet improve selectivity, and that

600
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,480
was a point when it didn't go to plan because

601
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,640
we wanted money to keep the fleet tiding over. But

602
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,359
it was one of the bravest decisions by a fisheries

603
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,880
minister ever to not give you that they knew what

604
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:02,759
the outcome would be, that you'd be faced with the

605
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:05,640
same thing in twelve months time, and it was that

606
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,200
point two thousand and one that that money went to decommissioning.

607
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:13,799
So essentially we didn't get what we wanted at the time.

608
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,039
But I'm glad we didn't get what we wanted because

609
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,559
that decision by Rona Brank and as they said, it's

610
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:23,200
one of the bravest made by fisheries minister. It actually

611
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,160
allowed the fleet to downsize between that and the next

612
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,160
decommissioning scheme in two thousand and three, which between the

613
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,759
two I think reduced the effort of the fleet by

614
00:32:32,759 --> 00:32:35,440
about thirty seven percent. I think it was in vessels

615
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,839
over ten meters, but it reduced the fleet by over

616
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:39,759
a third. And when you think about it now, in

617
00:32:39,799 --> 00:32:42,400
the position we've got some more stocks in with sustainability,

618
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:46,359
that was the biggest, the biggest complementing there, and they

619
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,519
delivered the biggest benefit to the stocks. We just took

620
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,000
the vessels away from the port, so it wasn't nice

621
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:55,400
we decommissioned them. We turned them into razor blades. But

622
00:32:55,519 --> 00:32:58,160
had that not happened, I think the devastation would have

623
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,400
been wider because there wouldn't have been enough to go around.

624
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:05,559
Speaker 1: Looking back in the blockade, like, were you actually directly

625
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:06,640
involved in.

626
00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:11,119
Speaker 2: I wasn't involved in the blockade because I think that

627
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,039
our vessel I was under the Drona at the time

628
00:33:14,079 --> 00:33:16,319
and our vessel was too small to go into the blockade.

629
00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:18,680
It was only a fifty foot vessel. But obviously I

630
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,240
was aware of the blockade. We were around there, but

631
00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:24,319
the vessel I was on wasn't actually in the blockade.

632
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,240
What I was involved in, GYM is the sail down

633
00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:30,000
to the Firth and Fourth in two thousand and one

634
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,279
as well. I think there was one hundred vessels left

635
00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:34,680
the northeast and sailed down to the Furth and Fourth

636
00:33:35,079 --> 00:33:38,680
in protest, and that slot brought the twenty seven million

637
00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,279
pound to the table. Was the fact that the fleet

638
00:33:42,279 --> 00:33:45,079
did that, and it was quite a spectacle. Down in

639
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:47,519
the first with all those vessels just lying to the

640
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:50,039
seaside of the bridge. It was quite a sight at

641
00:33:50,039 --> 00:33:53,359
the time. So I was involved in that gym.

642
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: Yes, and what do you remember most vividly with the

643
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:01,480
tensions and the unity the atmosphere.

644
00:34:02,599 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 2: The atmosphere was kind of toxic at that time. The

645
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:11,079
two gents leading the protest, for instance, was John Bucken,

646
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,000
who had a fair line at the time in Peter

647
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:16,400
Bruce and obviously we're trying to march the men to

648
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,079
the top of the hill and if you didn't get

649
00:34:18,119 --> 00:34:20,280
there then you know there was going to be failure.

650
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,880
And I remember a big, big meeting just down from

651
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,719
the castle in a big church there where tensions were

652
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,039
running high because the failure. I remember when the EU

653
00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:34,400
shut down all that north areas out in Norwegian Zone

654
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,519
into North of Scotland. Industry got to blame for it,

655
00:34:37,679 --> 00:34:39,559
then the leadership got to blame for it. This is

656
00:34:39,599 --> 00:34:42,440
your fault, Europe there representing us. We told you we

657
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,199
didn't want this and you failed. So when others take

658
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,760
on leadership of the protests, then the people they get

659
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,679
it in the neck is the people that are deemed

660
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,760
to have failed, which myself and I like West at

661
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,119
the time, and I remember at that point in time

662
00:34:56,159 --> 00:34:58,800
in Edinburgh having to stay away from particular people because

663
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,199
they were angry, which, as I say, is not not

664
00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,039
a good thing. But we managed to stay away from them,

665
00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:06,840
and you know, we kept ourselves intact and then we

666
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,280
moved on. We moved on from that. But we have

667
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,559
to remember, Gym that the fishing industry is full of

668
00:35:12,599 --> 00:35:16,039
alpha males. You know, they are alpha males, and they

669
00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:18,639
just want the best for themselves and for the families

670
00:35:18,679 --> 00:35:21,760
and others. And if people are seen not to deliver

671
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,079
what they should be delivering, then that in itself as

672
00:35:24,079 --> 00:35:26,639
seen as a failure in their eyes. And I get that.

673
00:35:27,039 --> 00:35:29,280
And as long as you can accept that is a

674
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,400
feature of a human life, and you know, we've got

675
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,440
to deal with that as leaders, then it works out.

676
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:38,960
You've just got to accept that there's frailties on my side,

677
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,639
there's frailties and other sides. But you've just got to

678
00:35:41,639 --> 00:35:43,199
tolerate frailties and get on with it.

679
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 1: Did the experience do anything as far as shape your

680
00:35:48,519 --> 00:35:54,400
approach to now when you're in negotiations.

681
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:59,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I remember one one meeting in particular,

682
00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:02,440
where I realize is that the style of leadership that

683
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,559
the industry was using at that time, and I'm going

684
00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:09,159
away back to the nineties wasn't appropriate anymore. And I

685
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,480
talked to someone about this recently who's also in that meeting,

686
00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:15,000
and his recollection was the same as mine. And I

687
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,639
won't name names, but I remember industry blaming the scientists

688
00:36:19,679 --> 00:36:23,679
at the time for the reduction in cod quota. Now, yeah,

689
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,199
everyone wants to blame in there because the stocks were declining,

690
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:32,519
but I remember voices getting raised, fingers getting pointed, to

691
00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:38,039
the point I could see one member of the scientific

692
00:36:38,039 --> 00:36:42,079
community across the table from me starting to tremble, started

693
00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:45,880
to tremble and turning to the person who was pointing

694
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,280
the figures, saying, you need to back off. Now, you

695
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:51,159
need to back off, because I could see that individual

696
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:53,599
at the other side of the table starting to take

697
00:36:53,599 --> 00:36:56,039
it personally and starting to crumble. And it was that

698
00:36:56,119 --> 00:37:00,119
point I realized, this is not a fitting way to

699
00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:03,480
go about trying to solve a problem, because the problem

700
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,760
wasn't created by science. Okay, some of the science may

701
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,760
be incomplete, but it wasn't created by the people sitting

702
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,360
across the table from us. We all had our hand

703
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,880
on the decrease of the stocks at that time, whether

704
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,559
it be over fishing or whatever. But that was the

705
00:37:19,039 --> 00:37:22,559
real litmus test for me that if you are going

706
00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:25,440
to sit down and act as a leader, then you've

707
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,119
got to act as a grown up first and foremost. Stakes.

708
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: Hi, when you became chief executive, what did you think

709
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:34,079
the job would be?

710
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:39,559
Speaker 2: Yeah? I thought the job would be all encompassing because

711
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:42,280
you know, those people that know medium realized that I

712
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,079
don't do anything by half. I don't do anything by

713
00:37:45,079 --> 00:37:48,960
half at all. When we moved away from the legal company,

714
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:51,760
be Chris, Stephen and cod that do you start a secretariat?

715
00:37:52,119 --> 00:37:54,039
We then took it on board ourselves, so there was

716
00:37:54,079 --> 00:37:56,119
no one to give you back up after that, you

717
00:37:56,159 --> 00:37:58,119
were on your own, and we took a couple of

718
00:37:58,119 --> 00:38:02,000
staff across with us as well. And we knew it

719
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,400
would be a challenge, but it was nothing we hadn't

720
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,880
done in the past in terms of dealing with politicians,

721
00:38:07,159 --> 00:38:11,559
you know, writing reports, setting up meetings, trying to create positions.

722
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,599
So I knew that we would manage to do what

723
00:38:15,639 --> 00:38:18,960
we did. I guess more recently the challenge has been

724
00:38:19,039 --> 00:38:21,320
trying to man up the staff to deal with some

725
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,800
of the more complicated stuff now in I ces people

726
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,199
to deal with MPAs, aquaculture in the West of Scotland,

727
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:32,320
offshore renewables. The challenge for me has been to sort

728
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,679
of man up the association in terms of resource and

729
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,840
staff to try and deal with all these issues. And

730
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,079
there's never enough hours in the data. There is just

731
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:43,840
not enough hours in the day to deal with what

732
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:46,719
we're dealing with. And of course the staff like me

733
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,079
are on called twenty four to seven and the fishermen

734
00:38:49,199 --> 00:38:51,599
know that, you know, if they'd need anything, they can

735
00:38:51,639 --> 00:38:54,199
call us or text us at any time of the

736
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,719
day and that's just how we operate.

737
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:02,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's your style evolved over the years, you feel.

738
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: I think it has, Jim, Yeah, because you know I

739
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,239
talked about fisherman and being alpha males and at one

740
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,840
point I was probably one of them as well. I

741
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,760
don't see myself in that sort of light anymore. I

742
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:17,639
see myself as a problem solver. I like writing papers.

743
00:39:17,679 --> 00:39:19,440
Now I never have a thought. I'd doubt it myself

744
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,880
saying that, but I like putting my thoughts down in

745
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,400
paper and working with others to try and you know,

746
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:28,920
sort of form that or mold that into a sensible

747
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,719
position for industry. But I guess I'm calmer now, Jim,

748
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,480
than I ever was. And you know, okay, that comes

749
00:39:36,559 --> 00:39:39,800
with age anyway, I guess, but you do become wiser

750
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:44,400
over time without a shadow of doubt. You become less reactionary.

751
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:46,960
You know. I tend to think about things now before

752
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:53,000
I react. I ponder, and I don't get annoyed by anything. Ordinarily.

753
00:39:53,039 --> 00:39:56,920
There's very few things actually annoying me because I just

754
00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,199
take them away and think about them and try to

755
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,440
work out, you know, why that person thinks what they do,

756
00:40:02,639 --> 00:40:04,880
or why the government think what they do, and what

757
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,000
do I need to do to try and to try

758
00:40:07,039 --> 00:40:11,519
and change that opinion. So everything we do now, unlike before,

759
00:40:11,679 --> 00:40:14,760
is very principled. There is a reason why we do something,

760
00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:19,320
and we ordinarly maintain that position. And that's the difference now.

761
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,039
I think before we were all over the place. We

762
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:23,719
are not all over the place. Now. You know, we

763
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,599
take principal stances on things and we try and go

764
00:40:26,639 --> 00:40:28,480
and deliver output based on that principles.

765
00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 1: My view on that Mike is not having a go

766
00:40:34,519 --> 00:40:40,400
at academia, but I feel there's no substitute for experience.

767
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's true, that's very true. Somebody said

768
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,360
to me the last day, would you like to go

769
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,880
back to being thirty again? I said, well, physically, obviously

770
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,159
I would, but I don't. I don't think i'd like

771
00:40:55,199 --> 00:40:56,960
to go back to being the guy I was at

772
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,599
thirty because I don't think I identify with him well

773
00:41:01,039 --> 00:41:01,800
at all anymore.

774
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,039
Speaker 1: That's interesting. The next thing I was going to ask you,

775
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:09,400
were you more combative when younger or have you always

776
00:41:09,519 --> 00:41:12,639
balanced diplomacy with firmness?

777
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 2: No, it's I and I matured late in life. Gym, yeah,

778
00:41:18,159 --> 00:41:20,239
and mind wise, I matured late in life, and I

779
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,800
only you know, if someone had broken down, or someone

780
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,000
had broken a rope or a wire. I used to say, oh,

781
00:41:26,039 --> 00:41:29,039
that's really that's not good. I feel for you, And

782
00:41:29,119 --> 00:41:31,119
in fact I didn't feel for them at all, because

783
00:41:31,159 --> 00:41:34,960
it's a very competitive industry and if someone's not catching fish,

784
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,320
then you know, all the good for you sort of thing.

785
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,639
But I realized at one point one day, I said

786
00:41:40,679 --> 00:41:43,159
to someone, that's really disappointing. I really feel for you,

787
00:41:43,199 --> 00:41:45,960
and I actually meant it. I actually meant it, so

788
00:41:46,159 --> 00:41:48,880
in terms of maturing in that way. I was quite

789
00:41:49,199 --> 00:41:52,719
a late mature, but I was very competitive. I played

790
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,880
sport as a younger. Lad had to stop it when

791
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,880
I got my books. I couldn't afford to get to

792
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,320
get injured with rugby or anything like that. But yeah, yeah,

793
00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:04,480
very competitive. And there's things I used to do at

794
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,199
the start of my life, and leadership and the association

795
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,159
that I wouldn't tell people anything and another association because

796
00:42:12,199 --> 00:42:13,920
I wanted to be the person to deal with it.

797
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,039
Now I realized that it's a weakness, it's not a strength.

798
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,280
And I realized now the strength is is actually working

799
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,440
with others to develop something that everyone wants, rather than

800
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,760
you going out front and trying to lead the charge.

801
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,960
So in that respect, I've matured a lot over these

802
00:42:29,039 --> 00:42:32,559
last you know, twenty years, because I understand working with

803
00:42:32,599 --> 00:42:35,079
others is far better than working in isolation.

804
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: What was the heaviest responsibility you've carried and how do

805
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,320
you did you manage it?

806
00:42:44,519 --> 00:42:49,119
Speaker 2: The heaviest responsibility I carried, Jim, was as a young guy,

807
00:42:49,639 --> 00:42:52,440
you know, twenty one, starting out in my career aid

808
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,280
of a crew. I was the youngest by fifteen years.

809
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,599
You absolutely had no respectable the vessel. Why would you

810
00:42:58,639 --> 00:43:03,360
have respect You'd never proven your self. So from there

811
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,480
through to the point that I started making decent money

812
00:43:06,519 --> 00:43:08,920
and started, you know, doing well in my career up

813
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,760
until my mid thirties and forties, the early part of

814
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,360
that with the new vessel was probably the biggest strain

815
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,760
I came under because they recall at the time that

816
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,360
Cotas was coming in, everybody was allocated the same. Whereas

817
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,239
some vessels had no debt, I had a massive debt.

818
00:43:23,599 --> 00:43:28,199
I remember that my friend got the European grants when

819
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,599
he built his boat. I didn't get the European grants.

820
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:34,480
And back in when I was there about eighty six,

821
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:37,880
I was refused one hundred and seventy thousand pounds in

822
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:43,119
nineteen eighty six, and that in my eyes was absolutely massive,

823
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,440
and I remember almost about being being in tears about it,

824
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,320
as phoning up the accountant and he said, look, at

825
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,159
the end of the day, it'll all be the same.

826
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,320
So I just got my head down and tried to

827
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,880
do as much as I could. And I do realize

828
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,480
that through that point in time, I wasn't a nice

829
00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:03,000
person because the pressure was on you. You had to

830
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:04,639
do what you had to do to pay the bank

831
00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:08,360
because if you're called then the m day's gym. There

832
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,320
was your loans you got from ship mortgage finance. It

833
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,440
was a cheaper, cheaper interest. It was set up by

834
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,239
the government. It was a cheaper interest rate. But you

835
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,960
couldn't default on a payment. You weren't allowed to default

836
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,159
in a payment. And that's why, you know, we had

837
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:23,000
to go to it. We had to make money. And

838
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,360
that's probably where I felt the most pressure in my

839
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:32,360
career was at that point. And it's different from the

840
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:34,960
pressures now of you know, I'm going on holiday tomorrow

841
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:36,880
and I've got to get a paper out before the

842
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,400
end of the day, right so I know I'll get

843
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,480
on and I'll do that. It's a pressure, but it's

844
00:44:42,519 --> 00:44:46,039
nothing like the pressure of having another seven of a crew.

845
00:44:46,119 --> 00:44:48,599
You know, all the families, you know they've got a mortgage.

846
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,519
You know they've got to pay the payments on the car.

847
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,239
That's real pressure, you know. You know, finishing a paper

848
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,480
by five o'clock today is it's made up pressure. It's

849
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,679
not real because you know you can get through it

850
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,760
and you know what the outcome will be. Whereas when

851
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,360
you're trying to catch fish and pay the back. You

852
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:06,960
have no idea what's going to happen.

853
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: You know, I'm fascinated listening to your the mic and

854
00:45:12,519 --> 00:45:16,599
it's to me it shows a measure of the man

855
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,559
because we're talking about your career.

856
00:45:20,039 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 2: Now.

857
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:26,159
Speaker 1: I'm quite sure you've come across many people probably on

858
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:30,760
the same round, the same desk as you were. But

859
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,679
fascinates me and I think, well, then you you talk

860
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,840
about your career, but you go right back when you

861
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:40,519
were fishing.

862
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:41,159
Speaker 2: Now.

863
00:45:41,199 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: You're not a lot of people I would say the

864
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,760
position you're in that would be their career, that would

865
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,800
have forgotten about what happened before that.

866
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I always say that. You know, politicians

867
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:58,239
are always to a degree uneasy with me, because it's

868
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,320
not as though you came out of university and came

869
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,920
into this industry and you're learning as you go on,

870
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,920
and I continue to learn. I fished for thirty five

871
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,079
forty years, you know. I know the pressures, I know

872
00:46:09,159 --> 00:46:12,320
the outputs. I know what fishermen have got to do

873
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,920
to make a living, what they've got to do to

874
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,239
pay their to pay the bank back. I know the

875
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,760
problems and the feelings you get with engines. That have

876
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:24,320
broken down. I recall being in Brussels and negotiations one

877
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,079
end of the year and the superintendent from the company

878
00:46:28,119 --> 00:46:29,760
phoning me up and you said, Mike, before I tell

879
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,320
you that, someone get to sit down. And I'm thinking,

880
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:34,519
oh God, what's this going to be. And the vessel

881
00:46:34,559 --> 00:46:38,960
had been up in the dry dock getting painted, and

882
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,599
it had fallen off the dry dock and landed on

883
00:46:41,639 --> 00:46:44,800
the pier and I was stuck in Brussels, and I

884
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,639
just thought, I just can't do this anymore. I just,

885
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,840
honest to God, cannot do this anymore because you, yeah,

886
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,239
the pressures and the negotiations and then try to deliver

887
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,920
free members there. You knew that incident in the harbor

888
00:46:57,039 --> 00:46:59,119
was going to cast you tens and tens of thousands

889
00:46:59,159 --> 00:47:01,320
of pounds. You were going to be on shore for

890
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,000
a number of weeks or even months. And when you

891
00:47:04,039 --> 00:47:06,880
get that pressure coming at you from from both sides,

892
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,800
if you're going to survive, it molds you into something

893
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,079
different and you have to be to be able to survive.

894
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,599
But yeah, I remember that call to this day thing

895
00:47:14,639 --> 00:47:17,320
and what have I done to deserve this? You know,

896
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,079
what have I done to deserve this? Because things were

897
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,079
just not going well at the time. But you come

898
00:47:22,559 --> 00:47:24,880
out of a jim and you know you are a

899
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:27,519
product of what you've done and what you've learned. And

900
00:47:27,559 --> 00:47:29,440
as I said, there's been strong people in my life

901
00:47:29,559 --> 00:47:32,599
that have learnt me a lot, and there's been incidents

902
00:47:32,599 --> 00:47:34,599
in my life that have learnt me a lot as well,

903
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,199
and you just feed off of that and try and improve,

904
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,800
you know, what you do on a day to day basis.

905
00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:43,719
And even now I enjoy this this job as much,

906
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,159
if not more now than I did when I came

907
00:47:46,199 --> 00:47:47,320
into all those years ago.

908
00:47:48,159 --> 00:47:54,159
Speaker 1: That's good. But the situation that you described there, obviously

909
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:59,400
it was not something you had done, but it's you

910
00:47:59,519 --> 00:48:00,559
had to handle it.

911
00:48:01,639 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not something I'd done. In the harbor said

912
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,199
it wasn't their responsibility. It was a responsibility to make

913
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,000
the make sure the vessel was secure. And I went

914
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:14,400
through legal fights, I went through insurance companies. Yeah it

915
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,679
was there was nothing to do with us. But at

916
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,920
the end of the day, it cost the business heavily

917
00:48:20,039 --> 00:48:23,599
in terms of lost earnings, the cruise earnings. They went

918
00:48:23,679 --> 00:48:26,079
and got jobs and other boats, and it just disrupted

919
00:48:26,079 --> 00:48:29,880
our whole, our whole operation. But as they said, Jim,

920
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,800
what doesn't break you makes you stronger, and you just

921
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,400
learned to deal with it and then just just move

922
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,559
on and you take something from that, that incident or

923
00:48:38,559 --> 00:48:42,239
that crisis and just get on with it. But you know,

924
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,440
all the same, I could have been done without it happening.

925
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,920
Because it did. It did slows down in terms of

926
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,599
the business sense, which which wasn't good because it was

927
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:51,199
challenging enough as it was.

928
00:48:52,880 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes that's something that's be thinking about. You've

929
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:05,000
already said, I know you studied European law to improve

930
00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:09,800
your negotiating skills. Was at a turning point in your career, Mike.

931
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was European politics. It was a turning point

932
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:18,400
because I actually enjoyed what I did. I remember I

933
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,440
used to set Sundays aside to try and write my

934
00:49:23,519 --> 00:49:26,639
dissertations and everything, and I used to sit listening to

935
00:49:26,679 --> 00:49:30,199
Pink Floyd writing away. I could never read and listen

936
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:33,320
to music, but I got into this position where I

937
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,840
used to love listening to music and writing at the

938
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,400
same time. I got into a structure about taking notes.

939
00:49:39,599 --> 00:49:41,440
But it got that bad that I remember going in

940
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,760
holiday to TENI reef with my good friend Raymond, the

941
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,000
guy that I talked about earlier, went down with his

942
00:49:47,039 --> 00:49:49,920
wife after my wife and the kids when we were reported missing.

943
00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:52,679
I remember being in a holiday with him and his

944
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:54,679
wife to ten Reef and he said, that's it. Never again.

945
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,920
He says, you cannot switch off when you're doing this,

946
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,679
and I'm not coming away on holiday to watch you

947
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:02,960
in a corner writing away on a laptop. It's just,

948
00:50:03,039 --> 00:50:04,639
you know, it's not good for me and it's not

949
00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,519
good for you. But yes, I took a lot out

950
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,119
of doing that, if nothing else, just the commitment of

951
00:50:12,119 --> 00:50:14,920
getting it Dune Gym. It did learn me a lot

952
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:19,719
of things on writing skills. But what it also didim

953
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,599
that a lot of what I did was engaged with

954
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:27,639
environment and studied the rainforests and the Amazon, you know,

955
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:32,199
studied the Greek fresh war system around Athens and how

956
00:50:32,199 --> 00:50:35,480
they securitize that. So it learns you a lot about

957
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,719
things outside of your industry, especially the environmental aspect of it.

958
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,239
I found that was beneficial. Has become more engaged with

959
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,280
environmentalists over the year as well. I mean, you understand

960
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,519
you don't necessarily agree with everything they say, but you

961
00:50:49,559 --> 00:50:52,159
certainly understand where they're coming from, other than the real

962
00:50:52,679 --> 00:50:55,639
you know anarchists out there who just just out there

963
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:56,239
to disrupt.

964
00:50:56,239 --> 00:51:02,559
Speaker 1: To be fair, Yeah, would the success of your career,

965
00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:07,719
would you put it down to preparation and learning versus instinct?

966
00:51:08,159 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 2: There's there's a lot of Yeah, it's about it's about experiencing,

967
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,599
about taking that experience to the table and you know,

968
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,840
getting people to think that you're being honest and serious

969
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,239
with them and you are trying to do the right

970
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,599
thing by them. And there's a lot of times that

971
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,960
you know, you work with the government with directors deputy directors,

972
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:29,599
and you get to know things that you just can't

973
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:33,320
can't tell others. But and you've got to operate on

974
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,400
that basis. And I think a lot of people respect that.

975
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:40,559
But you know, as time has moved on, I even

976
00:51:40,639 --> 00:51:43,079
think that the people we deal with in government now

977
00:51:43,199 --> 00:51:48,039
are different and they're more accessible, they are easier to

978
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:52,920
deal with, just the next generation I get. But you know,

979
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,639
going forward, I would like to think that the industry,

980
00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:00,760
the managers are probably closer together now than we've ever

981
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:05,360
been and hopefully going forward that will stand this in

982
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:09,239
good stead. And whoever comes, you know, behind me, that's

983
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,440
been the first thing I would say to them, you know,

984
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,000
go to the people that make the decisions and get

985
00:52:15,039 --> 00:52:17,360
them to like you and get them to respect you

986
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,079
so that they're willing to lean on you at any

987
00:52:20,119 --> 00:52:23,519
point they have to. And that's the real role. The

988
00:52:23,559 --> 00:52:26,880
position I'm in now is with dealing with the politicians

989
00:52:27,199 --> 00:52:29,639
and making sure they can rely on you and trust you.

990
00:52:30,119 --> 00:52:32,679
And that's what that's the position in the area we've

991
00:52:32,679 --> 00:52:34,559
had to move in over the last two to three decades.

992
00:52:34,639 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: Jim, did people realize at the time the length you

993
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:44,119
are going to behind the scenes to better your position.

994
00:52:45,119 --> 00:52:49,760
Speaker 2: Probably not. No, it's not something you know. Speakers clubs

995
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,440
wasn't popular at the time in my industry. It's not

996
00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:56,920
something that everyone signed up for every second Saturday of

997
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,440
the month. But it did learn you a lot. It

998
00:52:59,519 --> 00:53:04,320
learned your about responding professionally on the spot. I remember

999
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:06,960
once they used to be in the speaker's clubs what

1000
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:10,760
they called the three minute Topics, and there used to

1001
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:13,880
be a topics master, and the topics master was always

1002
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,480
appointed on that day and at the next meeting he

1003
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:18,480
had to come up with a list of topics that

1004
00:53:18,599 --> 00:53:20,760
if you were called out, you had to speak for

1005
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,000
three minutes on and I had to be exactly three

1006
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,360
minutes because they worked the light system at one minute,

1007
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,199
two minutes and three minutes back. That was it. You

1008
00:53:27,239 --> 00:53:30,000
were finished. And I remember one of the most challenging

1009
00:53:30,199 --> 00:53:33,519
topics that I got was as I stood up in

1010
00:53:33,559 --> 00:53:36,880
the podium, the topics master said to me, Okay, now

1011
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:40,400
give me three minutes on shoelaces. And I thought, wow,

1012
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:44,079
how can I give you three minutes and shoelaces? But

1013
00:53:44,159 --> 00:53:46,840
it is it allows you to hone your skills. But no,

1014
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:50,239
as I say, the industry, they weren't interested in what

1015
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,400
I did behind the scenes. They just wanted me to

1016
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:55,719
do what they told me to do and deliver to

1017
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,199
the best of my ability. How I got there, I

1018
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:01,519
don't guess there was really that concerned about, at least

1019
00:54:01,519 --> 00:54:03,440
my memory. My memory is you know.

1020
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:10,039
Speaker 1: Well credit and looking back with a time investment in yourself,

1021
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,320
do you think it was one of your smartest moves

1022
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:14,039
in your career.

1023
00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 2: I think it was the building blocks that I needed

1024
00:54:18,280 --> 00:54:21,960
to do what I do currently. Jim. You know, even

1025
00:54:22,039 --> 00:54:25,719
things like I chair the Northern Fishing Alliance, which is

1026
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,440
a body, a post Brexit body of all the industry

1027
00:54:29,519 --> 00:54:31,920
leaders from the North Sea countries pretty much. You know,

1028
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:37,000
we've got well Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany, France, Belgium, Netherlands

1029
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,800
selves as Ireland in there as well. And I do

1030
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,599
most of the position papers. I drop all the strow

1031
00:54:44,599 --> 00:54:47,679
men for for the Northern Fishing Alliance positions and cord

1032
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,800
monkfish and whatever else. And I enjoy it. And I

1033
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,159
think without the building blocks of what I did to

1034
00:54:54,199 --> 00:54:56,239
get here, I don't think I'd be able to or

1035
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:59,480
capable of doing that. So to that end, what I

1036
00:54:59,519 --> 00:55:04,280
did help me. You know, I know some science. I'm

1037
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,679
not a scientist there. You speak to people like Kobe

1038
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,760
Needle and others, and you know chavone enough from Shetland.

1039
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,960
They're scientists. They know what they're doing. I know a

1040
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:16,079
bit here and a bit there. But it allows me

1041
00:55:16,159 --> 00:55:19,519
to try and piece position papers together that everybody else

1042
00:55:19,559 --> 00:55:22,960
can then start work on. But we are fortunate now,

1043
00:55:23,039 --> 00:55:26,400
Jim that you know, I'm there and I've fished in

1044
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,480
the past, but we have a lot of good people

1045
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:30,679
in the sector now that didn't fish in the past,

1046
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:34,559
but they've got the fishermen's benefits at the heart. They

1047
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:37,119
really want to deliver for the fishermen. And that's the

1048
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,079
really good thing that they're in here without a fishing background,

1049
00:55:40,159 --> 00:55:42,440
but they understand what they need to do to deliver

1050
00:55:42,519 --> 00:55:44,440
for the people that they want to deliver for.

1051
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:51,199
Speaker 1: Over the years. What a decision or outcome you particularly

1052
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:51,760
proud of.

1053
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:57,920
Speaker 2: Well, I guess it's not me that delivered, but I

1054
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,880
guess my part was in there that you know, very

1055
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,400
recently we managed to get monkfish or anglerfish pushed through

1056
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,880
a benchmark, and it was Rufus and our organization who

1057
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,440
we brought in knowing full well he'd done his PhD

1058
00:56:10,679 --> 00:56:14,000
on on monkfish and he then you know, aligned and

1059
00:56:14,079 --> 00:56:16,639
engage with the scientific community with the role of trying

1060
00:56:16,639 --> 00:56:20,000
to ensure that that back benchmark went ahead. And it

1061
00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:25,559
was after that that we we got a significant increase

1062
00:56:25,639 --> 00:56:29,760
in the monkfish quota. So that's certainly one area where

1063
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,920
I think that you know, not just me, but you know,

1064
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,239
we've we've taken a decision to bring someone in that

1065
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:39,559
that has actually delivered. And the other things are you know,

1066
00:56:39,599 --> 00:56:43,079
getting three million from Boris Johnson to build our new headquarters,

1067
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,119
you know, getting getting funded to defibrillate as in all

1068
00:56:46,119 --> 00:56:48,519
our vessels aboard the boat. I mean, these are sort

1069
00:56:48,559 --> 00:56:51,679
of things that you can see. But other times it's

1070
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,199
just about working with government to try and ensure that

1071
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:58,679
the fleet gets the opportunities, the fishing opportunities that it

1072
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:02,000
can to allow it to make money, albeit within that

1073
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:08,440
sustainable harvesting platform. I do recall one other instance, and

1074
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,599
I think it was during COVID that the government was

1075
00:57:11,639 --> 00:57:14,800
putting up funding to bail out some of the Western

1076
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:19,079
Scotland vessels, the startic gear vessels and the small pronouns

1077
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,159
because COVID was having a severe impact on them, they

1078
00:57:23,199 --> 00:57:27,159
thought more than others, and our pron fleet round here

1079
00:57:28,119 --> 00:57:33,440
was basically pushed out. They set the parameters that low

1080
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:36,639
that our guys in terms of their catches, a fashion

1081
00:57:36,639 --> 00:57:39,199
and efforts was above it, and it was just a

1082
00:57:39,239 --> 00:57:42,719
noble we weren't going to get anything. But then I

1083
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,679
wrote a paper, I sat down with them, protested and

1084
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:48,280
just said it was unfair and asked for their rationally

1085
00:57:48,320 --> 00:57:53,000
ast why we weren't getting anything. So they accepted. I

1086
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,800
think they accepted in all but something like four Northeast

1087
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:59,800
vessels into the scheme, and I remember on Saturday morning

1088
00:58:00,159 --> 00:58:02,880
it was agreed they're taking it to the politicians to

1089
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,000
sign it off the parliament. And on the Saturday morning

1090
00:58:06,119 --> 00:58:08,280
I got a call. This is the person, said Mike,

1091
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,800
they're just not accepting this at all. The U section

1092
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:15,119
has said funding before and we reckon. They made a

1093
00:58:15,199 --> 00:58:18,079
mess of it. Some vessels got they shouldn't have got,

1094
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:21,760
and that's left a bad taste. And the pushback now

1095
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,719
is that you guys are just not going to get anything.

1096
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,760
And he said, you've got two hours to come up

1097
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:31,679
with a rationale as to why you think we should

1098
00:58:31,679 --> 00:58:35,039
get and it's solid enough that I can take to

1099
00:58:35,079 --> 00:58:37,800
the people that are now pushing back. So I sat

1100
00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:40,079
and I wrote a paper in two hours and sent

1101
00:58:40,159 --> 00:58:42,880
it through to them and said, right, this is the rationale.

1102
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,360
And on Monday morning I got a call to say

1103
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:47,480
that's what your guys are in. But it was like

1104
00:58:47,559 --> 00:58:50,840
that's paper thing and it's got seventy vessels in that

1105
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,119
then got. I can't remember what they got. It was

1106
00:58:53,159 --> 00:58:55,800
like fifteen to twenty thousand each of them to try

1107
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,480
and tide them through that COVID thing. But people don't

1108
00:58:58,519 --> 00:59:01,199
see that sort of issue us, you know, coming to

1109
00:59:01,239 --> 00:59:03,719
the fore. Because it was just that call on a

1110
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,519
Saturday morning. You're out unless you can convinced me should stay.

1111
00:59:06,559 --> 00:59:09,599
And I wrote the paper and then we got the

1112
00:59:09,679 --> 00:59:13,760
vessels in which which was a big boost for me.

1113
00:59:14,239 --> 00:59:16,679
But people don't see that side of it. They just

1114
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:20,280
think you'll succeeded, you fail. There's nothing, there's nothing between

1115
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:21,639
you know. My goodness.

1116
00:59:22,039 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 1: Well, at that very point reminds me of a situation.

1117
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,880
I'm sure you'll remember it. Christian Solvice and was going

1118
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,360
on the market and we could buy their shares. And

1119
00:59:33,679 --> 00:59:37,239
a friend of mine says to me, are you are

1120
00:59:37,239 --> 00:59:40,199
you going to invest I says no, I know too

1121
00:59:40,239 --> 00:59:44,679
much about Christian Salvice and and he says, oh, come on,

1122
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:49,199
where's your sporting spirit? I says, hey, my sporting spirit.

1123
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:51,639
I don't need that for kicks. I says, I'm in

1124
00:59:51,639 --> 00:59:53,400
the fishing industry.

1125
00:59:56,199 --> 00:59:59,159
Speaker 2: And there's other people out there gym that you know

1126
01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:02,519
song and you know people like my chairman David Milne,

1127
01:00:02,519 --> 01:00:06,079
who's now been my chairman for twelve fourteen years. We've

1128
01:00:06,119 --> 01:00:09,400
never had a crossworld over all that time. If he

1129
01:00:09,559 --> 01:00:12,880
needs convincing about a policy direction, he'll sit down, you'll

1130
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:16,039
listen and he'll make up his mind. He's still fishing.

1131
01:00:16,039 --> 01:00:18,000
He's just he's sold up, but he's now back into

1132
01:00:18,039 --> 01:00:20,920
the sector. And it's people like that that have to

1133
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,480
deal with the real issues at the sea. So if

1134
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,800
something goes wrong, he got he gets the call and

1135
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,400
it's normally what's Parky up to now, you know, and

1136
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:33,920
he's and he's got to deal with that at the sea. Well,

1137
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:35,760
we'll try to get on with his work. And it's

1138
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:40,360
people like like Davy and like James Anderson and Leslie

1139
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:42,599
taitting that. And I see an old colleague of mine

1140
01:00:42,679 --> 01:00:45,039
just died. I think it was yesterday, Josie Simpson up

1141
01:00:45,039 --> 01:00:49,239
in Shedland. You know, I traveled for decades with Josie

1142
01:00:49,239 --> 01:00:51,960
and he was a top guy, really was. I loved

1143
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:55,599
working with Josie and he was always very balanced, very articulate,

1144
01:00:56,119 --> 01:00:58,159
and it's sad, sad to see him going.

1145
01:01:00,199 --> 01:01:05,079
Speaker 1: You're so a note you put on social media a

1146
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,000
bit about it. As I read your comment, I thought

1147
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,760
it was very touching, but I have to say I

1148
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,880
didn't I don't think he was in the same sector.

1149
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,119
I did a lot of business in the Sheplains, but

1150
01:01:16,639 --> 01:01:18,280
I've never actually met Josie.

1151
01:01:18,719 --> 01:01:21,599
Speaker 2: Josie was in the PLGIC. He sold his vessel a

1152
01:01:21,599 --> 01:01:23,880
lot of years ago, so it was the logic he

1153
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:26,199
was mainly involved in. But then you had you know,

1154
01:01:26,239 --> 01:01:30,280
people like Leslie Tate coming through, absolutely solid guys, James

1155
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:33,480
Anderson in there now, and I say, I've got my chairman,

1156
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,920
David Millan, who's been there for years. So there's a

1157
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,119
lot of good people out there. They don't you know,

1158
01:01:39,159 --> 01:01:42,599
they're not involved in the work I'm doing, but they

1159
01:01:42,639 --> 01:01:44,920
go out there and they guard the fort and they

1160
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:49,039
do that day and day out in the which is

1161
01:01:49,079 --> 01:01:53,239
the North Sea, the West Scotland, whatever it is. They're

1162
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,320
out there guarding the fort and they lend their expertise

1163
01:01:56,360 --> 01:02:00,039
and knowledge and wisdom as and when it's required, and

1164
01:02:00,199 --> 01:02:03,079
you know, thank Davy and others for carrying out that role.

1165
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, solid, solid guys. I know both of them very well.

1166
01:02:07,639 --> 01:02:11,719
Have a huge respect for both Davy and James. Was

1167
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:16,880
there ever a moment when your approached surprised people or

1168
01:02:16,920 --> 01:02:18,599
even prove doubters wrong.

1169
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 2: Well, I guess that's too nuinous to mention, to be fair,

1170
01:02:23,079 --> 01:02:25,920
but yeah, I mean I might get you know, I

1171
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:27,960
go back to that period of the days at seeing

1172
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,519
the cameras, and then people thought that was wrong at

1173
01:02:30,559 --> 01:02:33,519
the time, and it pulled us through. Even even this

1174
01:02:33,639 --> 01:02:36,440
last year, you know, recommending a twenty percent reduction in

1175
01:02:36,519 --> 01:02:40,039
cord that we did through Northern Northern Alliance, there was

1176
01:02:40,079 --> 01:02:43,280
some that thought, you know, fishermen shouldn't be doing that

1177
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:47,159
because they should be trying to protect the opportunities year

1178
01:02:47,199 --> 01:02:49,920
on year. And of course, you know that's a very

1179
01:02:50,039 --> 01:02:52,519
short termism approach, and we've got to take a medium

1180
01:02:52,599 --> 01:02:56,079
to long term approach well, not prejudicing the short short

1181
01:02:56,159 --> 01:02:59,159
term completely. So yeah, I guess, I guess there was

1182
01:02:59,199 --> 01:03:01,719
some that thought this last year we shouldn't have been

1183
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:06,159
going for a twenty percent reduction in card quota. But

1184
01:03:06,519 --> 01:03:09,559
we're always trying to do the best for the stocks

1185
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:12,800
gym without harming the industry. And there are times that

1186
01:03:13,039 --> 01:03:14,960
you know, you make a call or you take a

1187
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:19,000
position that some don't understand and they'd rather you didn't.

1188
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,159
But I always work in this principal gym and I

1189
01:03:22,159 --> 01:03:24,800
don't know what people will think about it, but you know,

1190
01:03:25,719 --> 01:03:29,320
leaders are called leaders for a reason that you're supposed

1191
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,719
to be out there, you know, deciding the pathway and everything,

1192
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,039
and of course you've got to bring your members along

1193
01:03:35,079 --> 01:03:38,280
with you. But if you were to do that, then

1194
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:40,559
you're not a leader. You know, you're just a secretary

1195
01:03:40,679 --> 01:03:42,880
or whatever, sitting in the office just doing the paperwork.

1196
01:03:43,679 --> 01:03:46,719
And I normally work on a trip wire system that

1197
01:03:47,079 --> 01:03:49,840
I'll try and push and push and push in the

1198
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:55,000
direction and you're begetting negative comments. But unless one of

1199
01:03:55,239 --> 01:03:58,239
ten people phone me up and say, what are you

1200
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,599
playing at? Then you just keep eating away and eating

1201
01:04:01,639 --> 01:04:03,760
it away and eating away. And one of these ten

1202
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:05,679
or twelve people phoning you up, you know it's time

1203
01:04:05,719 --> 01:04:08,039
to put the brakes on, and you've got to go

1204
01:04:08,159 --> 01:04:11,599
back and pick people up. And that's the system kind

1205
01:04:11,639 --> 01:04:14,239
of always operated in the past, is that, you know,

1206
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:18,159
use your own thoughts, try and bring others along. But

1207
01:04:18,519 --> 01:04:21,320
at a point that the people out in the industry

1208
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:23,760
you respect start to say what are you playing at?

1209
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:25,679
Then you know it's time to put the brakes on

1210
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:28,079
and go back and pick everyone up again and see

1211
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:30,400
what direction you can then take. And that's for me,

1212
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:34,079
what leadership is all about. It's not about sitting doing nothing.

1213
01:04:34,239 --> 01:04:37,199
It's about hearing the mood music. It's about trying to

1214
01:04:37,239 --> 01:04:40,239
assess the problem in the size of the problem and

1215
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:42,559
taking the industry in a direction that you need, that

1216
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:45,039
you think you need to take it to solve a problem.

1217
01:04:45,239 --> 01:04:48,320
Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't work. But I say,

1218
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:52,360
you know, the name leader, industry leader should give people

1219
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:55,199
some idea of the role of this job. And it's

1220
01:04:55,719 --> 01:04:58,800
it's not just about sitting doing nothing. It's about trying

1221
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,679
to take decisions and half of others and trying to

1222
01:05:01,719 --> 01:05:03,920
convince them that it's the right thing to do.

1223
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:10,519
Speaker 1: Any moments where you quietly smiled at a success that

1224
01:05:10,639 --> 01:05:13,559
only insiders would understand.

1225
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:20,559
Speaker 2: That's an interesting one. It's a really interesting one. And

1226
01:05:20,599 --> 01:05:24,639
I'm not entirely sure to be fair, and I'm sure

1227
01:05:24,719 --> 01:05:28,079
the best ones I couldn't mentioned on here. Yeah, I mean,

1228
01:05:28,079 --> 01:05:31,280
there's a lot of things that I've good. Yeah, there's

1229
01:05:31,280 --> 01:05:32,840
a lot of things I've done in the past that

1230
01:05:33,519 --> 01:05:36,719
you know, people have been shocked at an outcome or whatever,

1231
01:05:36,840 --> 01:05:39,639
but it's been done for the right reason, and it

1232
01:05:39,719 --> 01:05:42,320
kind of pieces together with things that you've done afterworlds

1233
01:05:42,639 --> 01:05:46,440
or whatever. But there's nothing actually springs to mind that

1234
01:05:47,199 --> 01:05:50,519
is obvious. But there are some less obvious things that

1235
01:05:50,599 --> 01:05:55,480
you hand have obviously been on and you just couldn't say, now.

1236
01:05:55,480 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: What has this career demanded from you personally, family time

1237
01:06:01,159 --> 01:06:02,000
and energy.

1238
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:07,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, my wife always felt that when I left to

1239
01:06:07,079 --> 01:06:10,039
see that would be the end of the days of

1240
01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:12,519
her sitting on her own, going to bed alone at night,

1241
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:16,480
and that's not the case. I probably spend as much

1242
01:06:16,519 --> 01:06:19,000
time away from home now as I did in the past.

1243
01:06:19,079 --> 01:06:21,400
There's a lot of traveling involved, more so now that

1244
01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:24,280
we have a company that brings in on UK crew,

1245
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:27,480
where we now have to audit the agents abroad regularly

1246
01:06:27,519 --> 01:06:30,039
and routinely. Obviously there's a lot of two and flowing

1247
01:06:30,079 --> 01:06:33,480
up and down London now as well, so it's kind

1248
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:36,639
of taking its total wee bit in terms of home life.

1249
01:06:36,719 --> 01:06:39,159
But who am I to complain when my members are

1250
01:06:39,159 --> 01:06:42,320
doing two hundred odd days at sea a year. It's

1251
01:06:42,400 --> 01:06:44,559
not a strong complaint I could make to get any

1252
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:48,920
degree of sympathy. You know, there are other things, like

1253
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,079
you know, I had to sell my quota and everything

1254
01:06:52,119 --> 01:06:54,079
because at the time I couldn't be writing papers on

1255
01:06:54,440 --> 01:06:57,000
quota leasing while I was still holding cote and leasing

1256
01:06:57,079 --> 01:06:59,159
that out myself. So I had to get rid of

1257
01:06:59,159 --> 01:07:01,800
my coat and everything a point when the price wasn't

1258
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:04,400
that it's optimum. So it's little things like that. But

1259
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:06,639
that was my choice. I can't blame anyone for that,

1260
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:09,880
and it allowed me to go on and take decisions

1261
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:14,920
and right positions without being you know, without having that

1262
01:07:15,039 --> 01:07:18,440
sort of where I would to say, you know, or

1263
01:07:18,480 --> 01:07:21,679
the understanding the accusations could be lobbied against me. I

1264
01:07:21,719 --> 01:07:24,239
was taking a certain direction because I still had assets

1265
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:26,639
or whatever. So yeah, I mean I did that. That

1266
01:07:26,719 --> 01:07:29,599
was my choice. And it's taken its toll financially, I guess,

1267
01:07:29,639 --> 01:07:31,199
and as much as that. If I still had it,

1268
01:07:31,239 --> 01:07:35,079
then that'd be great. But apart from things like that, no,

1269
01:07:35,159 --> 01:07:39,599
it hasn't really taken its toll much at all. You

1270
01:07:39,719 --> 01:07:42,400
might still keep good health. I still drive back and

1271
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:44,320
forth the office every day. I'm in here at half

1272
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,840
seven every day. If I'm not traveling. Some of the

1273
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,920
worst aspects now, I guess Jim is the long haul flights,

1274
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:52,880
where you know, to try and be home as much

1275
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:55,119
as I can only fly to Manila and spend a

1276
01:07:55,159 --> 01:07:56,960
day and a half of Manila and then back again

1277
01:07:57,119 --> 01:08:01,800
or down to Akragana or Columbus Lanka, and as I say,

1278
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:03,320
to make sure you're home as much as you can

1279
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:05,920
only spend a day day and having country that starts

1280
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:08,239
to take its toll after a while because of the

1281
01:08:08,599 --> 01:08:11,119
time lag and everything. But I'm not going to moan

1282
01:08:11,159 --> 01:08:13,440
about it. You know, would I rather be doing that

1283
01:08:13,519 --> 01:08:16,079
than you know, waking up one hundred and fifty miles

1284
01:08:16,119 --> 01:08:18,279
from the harbor, you're forth nine trying to get the

1285
01:08:18,359 --> 01:08:21,119
dan away as the sun come up. That's that's the choices,

1286
01:08:21,239 --> 01:08:23,279
you know, It's what would you rather do? So I'm

1287
01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:26,119
not going to moan about anything at all because I

1288
01:08:26,199 --> 01:08:29,600
know the alternative was to stay see and continue doing

1289
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:31,079
that and that's not easy.

1290
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:36,319
Speaker 1: Well, I have to say make I am living proof

1291
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,800
that all you said about the service and your time,

1292
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:44,199
and that I'm living proof that it's right, because I

1293
01:08:44,319 --> 01:08:49,359
honestly anytime I say and appreciate it, as you know,

1294
01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:53,079
I call you for a bit of advice and if

1295
01:08:53,119 --> 01:08:57,199
I'm doing a podcast with somebody different subjects and that

1296
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:02,159
you've been a fantastic help to make it. And when

1297
01:09:02,159 --> 01:09:07,840
I'm picking up the phone did ring Mike Park Honestly,

1298
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,880
I think to myself, what country is any? Is he

1299
01:09:11,079 --> 01:09:15,039
in this time? And you have answertainces. I've in Sri Lanka,

1300
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:16,920
I've been Brussels.

1301
01:09:19,039 --> 01:09:22,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it's just it's a feature of the job.

1302
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:26,600
I'm not someone that moans about anything. I just get

1303
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:28,199
on with it. You know you're going to start moaning

1304
01:09:28,279 --> 01:09:30,760
get out, So I never moan. I just wake up

1305
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:32,920
in the morning and I think today has got a

1306
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:36,479
different set of challenges. Go and deal with them to

1307
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,479
the best your ability. And that's the that's my modus

1308
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:41,760
Operand I don't moan. Get on with it because as

1309
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:45,119
people wire soft than you are, that's for sure. Yeah,

1310
01:09:45,159 --> 01:09:47,920
that's the wrong with that. That's true, That's very true.

1311
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:53,359
Have there been moments of isolation or pressure that tested you.

1312
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:58,119
I think you've maybe mentioned that when you're with your

1313
01:09:58,199 --> 01:10:01,640
boat and the slip. Yeah, that was one of the

1314
01:10:02,359 --> 01:10:08,399
downpoints in my career. And obviously, you know, if you

1315
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,960
two or three bad trips in the trot towards the end,

1316
01:10:11,399 --> 01:10:13,079
your crew would phone up and say I've gotten a

1317
01:10:13,079 --> 01:10:16,760
berth with someone else. That always that always dug into me,

1318
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:18,760
because it was like saying there was other people better

1319
01:10:18,800 --> 01:10:20,680
than you and they can make more than you. And

1320
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,800
that used to to dig into me. And I guess

1321
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:26,199
you know, at that point when we started losing the

1322
01:10:26,239 --> 01:10:30,119
crew because you know, catches were down, prices were great,

1323
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:34,199
costs were up. That was a time of real pressure

1324
01:10:34,359 --> 01:10:36,159
because you couldn't get money to the bank, you know,

1325
01:10:36,199 --> 01:10:37,920
you couldn't give the money to the crew that you'd

1326
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:39,880
want them to get, although I always made sure the

1327
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,119
crew went home with something. I never liked those times, Jim,

1328
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:47,039
because I was used to a steady crew, good money,

1329
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:49,319
and then when that came to an end, that was

1330
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:52,039
that was a pressure of the fishing that I didn't like.

1331
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:55,640
And of course that appears every now and again in

1332
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:58,760
the fishing industry. I guess there's been other times as

1333
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:02,000
well that you know, when you especially when the European

1334
01:11:02,039 --> 01:11:06,319
Commissioning vote the precautionary principle away back in nineteen ninety nine.

1335
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:09,479
You know, I remember sitting out in what we call

1336
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:14,880
DG Mari D in Brussels, where the European commission Fisheries

1337
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:19,680
Department was, where the discussions were ongoing, and hearing, you know,

1338
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:22,000
the sort of course of artion they were trying to

1339
01:11:22,039 --> 01:11:26,319
take with quota reductions. I remember just sitting there thinking, Wow,

1340
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:30,680
this is absolutely devastating. And I remember one year getting

1341
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:33,279
to the airport. It had been a particularly bad year

1342
01:11:33,319 --> 01:11:36,199
at the negotiations, say, the cord quota came down from

1343
01:11:36,239 --> 01:11:40,159
like one hundred and twenty to forty thousand ton. And

1344
01:11:40,199 --> 01:11:43,840
I remember getting to the airport and the way home

1345
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,680
and at that point, you know, Gramping TV always used

1346
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:48,960
to have a camera waiting for you at Dice Airport

1347
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:51,199
as you came off the flight. You'd always have to

1348
01:11:51,239 --> 01:11:54,039
answer to Gramping TV about the disaster that lay ahead

1349
01:11:54,079 --> 01:11:57,720
for the industry. And I remember, as I saying, Zavantami

1350
01:11:58,000 --> 01:12:02,119
Airport in Brussels, standing with Alex Smith waiting for our

1351
01:12:02,159 --> 01:12:04,800
flight to come up on the board, and it came

1352
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:07,079
up with a flight to ten a Reef, and me

1353
01:12:07,119 --> 01:12:09,600
and him looked at one another, thinking that's probably a

1354
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:12,039
better option. We should maybe get on that one, because

1355
01:12:12,079 --> 01:12:14,279
we knew what was coming when we got back home again.

1356
01:12:14,960 --> 01:12:16,720
And it's at times like that you do start to

1357
01:12:16,720 --> 01:12:19,720
feel it, because you know people are putting you out

1358
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:21,600
there to try and make a difference for them, and

1359
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,119
at that point, it was just all negativity, you know,

1360
01:12:24,239 --> 01:12:27,760
trying to rebuild stocks, shutting down North Sea, increasing the

1361
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,119
mess size from one hundred towe hundred and twenty mil.

1362
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:33,000
It was just it was a boiling point and I

1363
01:12:33,039 --> 01:12:36,199
guess it's that period of time, probably from nineteen ninety

1364
01:12:36,279 --> 01:12:38,920
nine through to the back end of the days at

1365
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:42,760
SEE twenty ten. It was probably the most pressurized in

1366
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:44,560
the industry that I've ever felt.

1367
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:50,079
Speaker 1: It. Wow, who are you when the meeting stops? And

1368
01:12:50,159 --> 01:12:52,319
what do you enjoy outside the role?

1369
01:12:53,319 --> 01:12:58,399
Speaker 2: What do I enjoy outside the role? Well, I always

1370
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:00,560
like speaking to the family, and you know, me and

1371
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:02,920
my kids still go to football. Me and my kids

1372
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:04,640
will still go to the bar for a drink if

1373
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,279
they're if they're coming down, So I enjoy the family

1374
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:10,800
side of it. The unfortunate that we've got a rather

1375
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:15,159
large garden as well. And I enjoy weekends sitting on

1376
01:13:15,319 --> 01:13:20,039
my track toor my long cutter listening to American politics.

1377
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:24,479
I'm a voyeur of American politics, which is very interesting currently,

1378
01:13:24,520 --> 01:13:27,520
to be fair, So I normally sit there and listen

1379
01:13:27,560 --> 01:13:30,399
to the politics until off the ball comes on with

1380
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:33,680
Tom Cowen and the other guy. So I love things

1381
01:13:33,720 --> 01:13:36,880
like that at the weekends. But I'm going to have

1382
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,640
a gym goer as well. Gym I love. I love

1383
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:42,000
my hour in the gym every day, whether traveling or

1384
01:13:42,039 --> 01:13:44,600
not traveling. I like getting out in the bike in

1385
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:48,319
the summer. I really like getting out the bike in

1386
01:13:48,359 --> 01:13:51,279
the summer. But you know, moreover, I just like spending,

1387
01:13:52,079 --> 01:13:54,560
you know, time with the family. My family's all around

1388
01:13:54,600 --> 01:13:58,399
about as. We've got seven grandchildren. They are absolutely wonderful.

1389
01:13:58,399 --> 01:14:01,399
I've got one in America just now in a soccer scholarship,

1390
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,039
and they're just a great bunch of kids. Not just

1391
01:14:04,079 --> 01:14:06,680
because it's my grandchildren, but there are a great bunch

1392
01:14:06,680 --> 01:14:08,600
of kids. And my kids are a great bunch of kids.

1393
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:10,359
And of course I've got a loving wife as well.

1394
01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:13,479
And you know, having your family around about you is

1395
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:16,680
is always a big source of energy. It's always a

1396
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:20,039
big source of energy. Although my daughter's a doctor and

1397
01:14:20,079 --> 01:14:23,199
anytime I go to her and complain, I'm Soci'll see, dad,

1398
01:14:23,199 --> 01:14:25,880
you're getting old. And that's that's all I get from her,

1399
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:30,800
to be fair. So I time spent at university learning

1400
01:14:30,840 --> 01:14:34,039
medicine was not good in my part. But yeah, so

1401
01:14:34,199 --> 01:14:37,319
these are the things. There's nothing dramatic, you know. I

1402
01:14:37,359 --> 01:14:39,840
love coming up here. We've got a lovely building now

1403
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:43,199
in fraserbera can eared house. It's a great working environment

1404
01:14:43,239 --> 01:14:45,319
and I love coming up here, sitting with the staff

1405
01:14:45,359 --> 01:14:47,399
and just getting on with work looking out the window

1406
01:14:47,439 --> 01:14:50,359
over the bay. Yeah, it's not big, big things, but

1407
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:54,319
everything pieces together, which just makes you know, my life

1408
01:14:54,359 --> 01:14:56,680
outside of work actually quite special.

1409
01:14:58,359 --> 01:15:03,640
Speaker 1: That's good to keep. I think it's keeping the body fit,

1410
01:15:04,319 --> 01:15:08,960
keeps you mentally fit, and no question of that. When

1411
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:13,600
you were stepping into leadership, Mike, you clearly worked hard

1412
01:15:14,079 --> 01:15:17,479
to prepare yourself. If you could go back to that moment,

1413
01:15:18,199 --> 01:15:20,960
what would you tell yourself to focus on and what

1414
01:15:21,000 --> 01:15:24,520
would you tell yourself not to worry about?

1415
01:15:27,039 --> 01:15:33,119
Speaker 2: Really interesting question, Jim, that I would probably tell myself

1416
01:15:33,159 --> 01:15:37,840
at that time to ignore the noise better than I did,

1417
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:42,479
because at that time you're a sponge. Whatever anyone says,

1418
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:45,760
you just absorb it. And when you start absorbing too

1419
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:50,079
many viewpoints, it becomes difficult. It really becomes difficult. And

1420
01:15:50,720 --> 01:15:54,159
I've learned over time as well, Jim, to you know,

1421
01:15:54,560 --> 01:15:57,399
listen to what you need to listen to. But I've

1422
01:15:57,399 --> 01:16:02,279
all also learned to compartmentalized issues. So I can take

1423
01:16:02,319 --> 01:16:04,199
an issue now and stick it in the drawer, lock

1424
01:16:04,239 --> 01:16:07,279
the drawer in my mind, and just leave it, and

1425
01:16:07,319 --> 01:16:09,039
that's it. That's out of my mind. I'll leave it.

1426
01:16:09,199 --> 01:16:11,439
I'll go do something else and when I want to

1427
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:13,720
go back and deal with it, I'll go back and

1428
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,560
deal with it. In the absence of that, you start

1429
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:20,159
jumpling too many plates and life becomes extremely difficult, and

1430
01:16:20,159 --> 01:16:25,000
that's where people start to suffer from pressure and breakdowns

1431
01:16:25,039 --> 01:16:27,399
and that. But that's one of the skills that I've

1432
01:16:27,399 --> 01:16:30,439
developed over time, and I wish that I'd developed that earlier,

1433
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:32,880
because I think life back then would have been so

1434
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:35,039
much more easier if I could have done that.

1435
01:16:35,079 --> 01:16:40,560
Speaker 1: To be fair, it's amazing that's from the blockade of

1436
01:16:40,600 --> 01:16:45,760
the early eighties to today, the industry has enormous change,

1437
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:50,079
is dramatically What does the next chapter look like for

1438
01:16:50,199 --> 01:16:51,880
Scotland's fishermen.

1439
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 2: The next chapter? And of course there's been big changes

1440
01:16:56,000 --> 01:16:58,680
over time. You know, we went from sale to steam,

1441
01:16:58,800 --> 01:17:02,359
steam to diesel, went to hydraulics. You know, we went

1442
01:17:02,399 --> 01:17:05,600
to GPS rather than deck and lran. So there's been

1443
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:09,760
big shifts over time. And what there has been, Jim,

1444
01:17:10,119 --> 01:17:13,479
whether it be through external funding or not, there has

1445
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:18,000
been the fleet has shrunk quite significantly, and I think

1446
01:17:18,199 --> 01:17:21,439
what we all see going forward is a fleet that

1447
01:17:21,520 --> 01:17:26,199
will continue to adapt to the modern wave, which will

1448
01:17:26,319 --> 01:17:31,720
mean higher powered ships, more efficient ships, probably less ships

1449
01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:34,600
over time, and there's going to be a stress on

1450
01:17:35,039 --> 01:17:39,079
show services as well in the harbors in the coastal communities.

1451
01:17:39,079 --> 01:17:40,920
Without a shadow of a doubt, we just we see

1452
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:44,680
it happening all the time. But I guess as an industry,

1453
01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:47,840
we've got to adapt to the special squeeze that's going

1454
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:50,039
on and make sure that we can fight. We're calmer

1455
01:17:50,199 --> 01:17:54,199
going forward, to ensure that you know, areas of highest

1456
01:17:54,279 --> 01:17:57,800
sort of yield have kept areas of highest shield and

1457
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:01,960
we don't you know, continue to get special squeeze. There

1458
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:04,600
is going to be challenges for other challenges on the

1459
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,760
industry going forward. GYM. You know, back in nineteen ninety nine,

1460
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:11,880
as I mentioned the precautionary principle being evoked by the Commission.

1461
01:18:11,920 --> 01:18:15,680
At the time European commissioned, we focused on sustainability, and

1462
01:18:15,720 --> 01:18:18,520
now our focus has got to be on the treatment

1463
01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:22,520
of crew, making sure that you know, bonding is not

1464
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:27,079
out there, ensuring that you know, human trafficking and slavery

1465
01:18:27,159 --> 01:18:29,319
is not out there, because there's a big focus on

1466
01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:31,720
that just now from the retailers. So we are going

1467
01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:34,560
to come under continuing pressure from them, both in terms

1468
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:38,560
of certification for stocks, but also ensuring that there are

1469
01:18:38,600 --> 01:18:41,800
clear systems and to protect the worker, whether at seeing

1470
01:18:42,199 --> 01:18:44,800
while they're on the shore. And these are the challenges

1471
01:18:44,840 --> 01:18:46,720
that we're going to have to deal with. They're different,

1472
01:18:47,119 --> 01:18:50,159
but we all have to deal with them nonetheless. But

1473
01:18:50,239 --> 01:18:53,840
we are a primary producer GYM and there is a

1474
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:56,520
real reason as to why we should continue to prosper

1475
01:18:57,000 --> 01:19:00,239
as an industry sector, just like other like agreage, like

1476
01:19:00,279 --> 01:19:03,760
other industry sectors. But have always said that, you know,

1477
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,439
the fishing industry will always be here in some shape

1478
01:19:06,520 --> 01:19:09,600
the form. It will mean that we've got to invest wisely,

1479
01:19:10,119 --> 01:19:12,159
and it will mean that we've got to develop with

1480
01:19:12,239 --> 01:19:15,840
the times, whether that be through efficiency, different sorts of fuel,

1481
01:19:16,039 --> 01:19:19,119
different types of engines over time. But we will have

1482
01:19:19,199 --> 01:19:22,199
to embrace change without a shadow of doubt. It would

1483
01:19:22,239 --> 01:19:24,479
be good if it was at the speed that we wanted,

1484
01:19:25,079 --> 01:19:28,399
but undoubtedly we will have to embrace change going forward

1485
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:30,760
because if we don't, then as an industry we will

1486
01:19:30,800 --> 01:19:33,000
weather in the vine.

1487
01:19:33,319 --> 01:19:38,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, before we finish it, I want to say something

1488
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:43,079
to my personal view and I don't have a problem

1489
01:19:43,119 --> 01:19:49,760
by claiming ownership when a man of Mike Park will

1490
01:19:49,800 --> 01:19:54,840
be experience and status is kept outside the room during

1491
01:19:54,960 --> 01:20:01,239
critical negotiations. It doesn't just sideline one in individual but

1492
01:20:01,359 --> 01:20:06,600
it's a complete lack of respect stone to you and

1493
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:10,800
the fisherman you represent. That's my view, and I say

1494
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:15,039
it because value experience earned the hard way.

1495
01:20:17,399 --> 01:20:19,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, as we left Europe, we always thought

1496
01:20:19,760 --> 01:20:22,640
that as an industry we would be inside the room,

1497
01:20:23,319 --> 01:20:28,000
just like the Norwegian industry is with the Norwegian government.

1498
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:32,439
But I guess within the UK there are complexities to that.

1499
01:20:33,239 --> 01:20:37,119
And as much as that, we have foreign companies who

1500
01:20:37,159 --> 01:20:41,720
have organizations in the UK that try and seek the

1501
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:45,680
same access. So although they're operating in a European sort

1502
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:50,520
of arena, they are flagged into the UK or whatever.

1503
01:20:51,199 --> 01:20:54,680
And I guess governments wary that they may compromise their

1504
01:20:54,720 --> 01:20:59,039
negotiating positions if they start to let industry into that room,

1505
01:20:59,279 --> 01:21:01,479
because if they like industry, and they can't just let me,

1506
01:21:01,520 --> 01:21:03,640
and they've got to let others in as well. And

1507
01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:06,800
I guess that's where the complexity comes from in terms

1508
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:11,920
of the UK relative to the Norwegian situation. But in fairness, Jim,

1509
01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:16,239
I do think we get to have a good say

1510
01:21:16,239 --> 01:21:19,279
with our officials. I think our positions are taken on

1511
01:21:19,359 --> 01:21:25,039
board by officials, and I do understand the complexity at

1512
01:21:25,079 --> 01:21:30,800
play with non UK players in that room. Were they

1513
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:32,840
allowed to let them in? So whereas we had a

1514
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:35,800
vision when we left Europe, I understand now why that

1515
01:21:35,920 --> 01:21:37,239
vision hasn't come to play.

1516
01:21:38,920 --> 01:21:44,800
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, Mike, thank you for sharing your journey today

1517
01:21:45,119 --> 01:21:49,319
from the key side through those defining moments and work

1518
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:54,239
you're put into shaping your career. I also want to

1519
01:21:54,319 --> 01:21:59,079
acknowledge your friendship with the podcast. Your willingness to share

1520
01:21:59,199 --> 01:22:03,800
your story, your insight, and your experience has made a

1521
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,239
real difference, I have to say, and it's something I

1522
01:22:07,359 --> 01:22:12,760
deeply value. You've built a remarkable career and today we've

1523
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:16,680
had a glimpse behind the title into the man himself.

1524
01:22:17,039 --> 01:22:21,600
Thank you for being part of the milestone episode. Here

1525
01:22:22,279 --> 01:22:27,760
to more stories, more insights, and more moments that remind

1526
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,760
us why we do what we do. Thank you so much,

1527
01:22:31,840 --> 01:22:33,119
Mike today, I.

1528
01:22:33,039 --> 01:22:35,479
Speaker 2: Thank thank you Jim. It's always a pleasure speaking to you.

1529
01:22:35,520 --> 01:22:35,840
Thank you.