WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:07.160 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 2 00:00:07.240 --> 00:00:10.279 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:10.359 --> 00:00:17.640 written about them. Gaesy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK Every 4 00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:21.359 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:25.640 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 6 00:00:25.679 --> 00:00:29.440 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 7 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:40.759 Good Evening. Many decades before Ted Bundy roamed the country, 8 00:00:41.079 --> 00:00:45.960 there was serial killer Earl Nelson during the nineteen twenties. 9 00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:50.840 This geographically mobile serial killer went from city to city. 10 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:55.759 His modus operandi involved getting into a house by pretending 11 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:58.399 to be a person looking for a room to rent 12 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:02.960 or inspecting a house that was for sale, then strangling 13 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:06.920 the landlady, followed by having sex with the dead body. 14 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:13.480 Robbery was frequently a secondary motive. After Nelson was captured 15 00:01:13.519 --> 00:01:17.519 in Canada in nineteen twenty seven, it was commonly reported 16 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:20.000 that he had killed twenty one women and a baby 17 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:25.439 during the nineteen twenty six nineteen twenty seven period, But 18 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:29.799 were these the only cases linked to Nelson. The author 19 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:34.519 examines an additional nine unsolved murders of landladies, two of 20 00:01:34.519 --> 00:01:39.400 which have never been dealt with in previous literature. Based 21 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:43.760 on decades of archival research. The author examines all thirty 22 00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:48.519 one murders, relying on primary sources when available, and a 23 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:53.760 wide variety of secondary sources. For each murder. The book 24 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:58.879 provides biographical sketches of the victim, outlines the police investigation 25 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:03.439 and the various suspect, and covers any subsequent attempts to 26 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:07.359 link Nelson to the crime by identification, evidence of witnesses 27 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:12.199 or by fingerprints. The book that we're featuring this evening 28 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:17.319 is thirty one Murders Following the Trail of serial sex 29 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:23.520 killer Earl Nelson, with my special guest, law professor and author, 30 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:28.759 Alvin aj Esau. Welcome to the program, and thank you 31 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:32.759 very much for this interview. Alvin aj Esau. 32 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:35.919 Nice to be here. Thank you Dan for having me. 33 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:40.759 Thank you so much. You right that this book not 34 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:43.639 only deals with the thirty one murders that you think 35 00:02:43.719 --> 00:02:48.400 were committed by serial killer Earl Leonard Nelson in nineteen 36 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:51.879 twenty five to nineteen twenty seven, but the book itself 37 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:56.240 took more than thirty one years to research and write. 38 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:58.599 You were in nineteen eighty nine the head of the 39 00:02:58.719 --> 00:03:03.400 University of Manitoba Legal Research Institute and the Dean of 40 00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:07.680 the law faculty tell us about the genesis of this book. 41 00:03:09.639 --> 00:03:12.879 The law faculty way back then was trying to have 42 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.960 a seventy fifth anniversary celebration, and I was asked by 43 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:23.039 the dean to identify famous Manitoba trials, and I identified 44 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:25.360 nine of them and did a huge amount of research 45 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:29.080 on all nine. Three of them were criminal cases and 46 00:03:29.240 --> 00:03:32.400 murder cases, and over the years I kind of got 47 00:03:32.439 --> 00:03:36.840 interested in this case, which was a sensational case in 48 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:40.120 Manitoba in terms of the trial. I did a lot 49 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:44.960 of work in ninety five and presented the story of 50 00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:48.520 the case to the bar and bench in Manitoba, and 51 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:51.039 then I put her aside For many years. I worked 52 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:53.439 on all kinds of other stuff, but every once in 53 00:03:53.439 --> 00:03:55.680 a while I'd pick it up and I'd continue and 54 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:58.120 I'd go visit all of the various sites in the 55 00:03:58.199 --> 00:04:02.199 United States where I thought he had murdered people. Over time, 56 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:07.120 I started to develop the book, and then in my retirement, 57 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:09.639 I decided to write it. Now. Part of the reason 58 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:13.560 that I'm writing it is that a lot of the 59 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:16.079 literature that you find on him, he's kind of an 60 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:19.199 obscure serial killer. There's not a lot written about him, 61 00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:22.399 but when you look at stuff that is written about him, 62 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:25.160 a lot of the blogs and so on, but we're 63 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:29.519 just riddled with all kinds of mythology. And that's one 64 00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:32.240 of the reasons I continue is that I thought, well, 65 00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:35.279 you know, the record is terrible. There's a couple of 66 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:40.160 books that are okay. Harold Checkter wrote a book and 67 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.480 I sent a lot of material to him, and that's 68 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.360 why there's quite a bit of accuracy to it, but 69 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:49.480 a lot of the background material is also riddled with 70 00:04:49.639 --> 00:04:54.560 myth that he included. What I discovered is that, for example, 71 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:57.959 a lot of the myths arise from a guy Nash 72 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:01.600 who wrote a book called Blood Letters and Badman and 73 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:06.199 is just full of all kinds of material that has 74 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:09.759 absolutely no basis in fact. And a lot of the 75 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:16.879 blogs continue to carry this material which is completely mythological. 76 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:20.000 And that's part of the reason that I took the 77 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:21.920 time to sort of say, I want to set the 78 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:24.920 record straight now, if you don't mind me saying that 79 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:28.120 I wrote the book called the Gorilla Man Strangler Case, 80 00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:31.560 and in that book I deal with the Winnipeg murders, 81 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:36.000 the manhunt, and his escape from jail and so on, 82 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:40.800 and the trial and legal officials, and that book was 83 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:44.920 so large and detailed that I didn't have room to 84 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:47.680 deal with the American murders that I think he committed 85 00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:50.600 before he came to Winnipeg. And so that's where I 86 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:54.279 thirty one Murders is a book that I written, wrote 87 00:05:54.360 --> 00:05:58.319 last year, so that would be added to the record. 88 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:00.879 So I don't know if that answers your question or not, 89 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:03.240 but that's kind of what's what happened. 90 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:08.040 You write that in addition to the two Winnipeg murders 91 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:11.759 and the twenty American murders that are on the official 92 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:17.319 list from Detective Archie Leonard of Portland, you have added 93 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:20.680 nine American murders, bringing the count to thirty one. To 94 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:23.720 explain the title of the book, thirty one murders. 95 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:28.360 Right, Well, it's kind of interesting that Archie Leonard, who 96 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:33.519 was a detective in Portland, and in Portland, there's very 97 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:40.639 little doubt that Earl Nelson murdered four landladies, but the 98 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:45.920 first three Land Ladies were treated by the police as 99 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:50.839 not murders at all, even though the jewels there were 100 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:54.800 jewels missing. There were sexual elements to all of the 101 00:06:54.839 --> 00:07:00.199 bodies as they were found. The Portland people, both the 102 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:04.120 coroner and the police, a thought that the first two 103 00:07:04.199 --> 00:07:09.680 cases were perhaps suicide and the last case was just 104 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:14.079 a heart attack. And the Portland police, where I would argue, 105 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:19.040 very inept in understanding that these cases should be linked 106 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:22.000 to the dark strangler who was killing landladies all the 107 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:25.319 way across the West Coast. And so it's ironic that 108 00:07:25.480 --> 00:07:30.879 Archie Leonard, the Portland detective, was ultimately the one who 109 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.639 put together a list of twenty two cases and that 110 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:37.759 became the official list, and most of the people who 111 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:42.800 write about the serial killer Earl Nelson argue that that's 112 00:07:42.839 --> 00:07:47.800 his body count. Well, in fact, there's good reason, as 113 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:49.959 I try to argue, that there are a whole lot 114 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:54.959 of other cases, some of which are perhaps suspicious, and 115 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:59.399 perhaps we haven't got any definitive argument that he was 116 00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:02.560 the one who did but there's a good arguments to 117 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.959 be made that he probably was the one who murdered 118 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:10.839 these women across the United States. And so I've expanded 119 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:15.759 the list, and I'm not arguing per se that every 120 00:08:15.800 --> 00:08:19.800 one of these murders was committed by him. I'm saying 121 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:24.079 that there's a probable cause to argue that he did 122 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:28.120 these murders. But he might have committed more than thirty one, 123 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.279 you know, and maybe even on the official list, there 124 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:35.960 may be some cases where he didn't actually commit the murder. 125 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:41.320 But I think that there's enough circumstantial evidence to argue 126 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.440 that he is the culprit in these cases. 127 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:51.120 Let's get to this most fascinating case, this most fascinating 128 00:08:51.320 --> 00:08:55.919 murderer as well. You're right that there were five landladies 129 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:59.399 murdered in nineteen twenty five, and the list of official 130 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:03.720 murders doesn't start till nineteen twenty six, so you say 131 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:10.200 that starting in August twenty fourth, nineteen twenty five, a 132 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:14.519 widow named Elizabeth Jones was seventy two years old. And 133 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:17.600 again this is important, but because this is the mo 134 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:21.600 in terms of a man searching for a room or 135 00:09:21.879 --> 00:09:26.960 a home for sale and older elderly women. So Elizabeth 136 00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:33.240 Jones was showing apartments and there was someone next door 137 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:36.519 who saw the person that she was showing the room. 138 00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:40.240 To tell us about this story and what the police 139 00:09:40.279 --> 00:09:45.519 determined after the crime scene is identified, well, this. 140 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:48.879 Was again a case where you have to remember that 141 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:53.320 Earl Nelson in terms of the time frame. His last 142 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:56.799 escape we can talk about that later from the Mental 143 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:02.720 Institute for the Asylum was in November nineteen twenty three. 144 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:06.600 So when we look at cases, we can say from 145 00:10:06.679 --> 00:10:10.559 nineteen twenty three on, you know when did he start killing, 146 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:14.679 because you know, there's all of nineteen twenty four, in 147 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:17.639 nineteen twenty five and twenty six and twenty seven, so 148 00:10:18.279 --> 00:10:22.240 you know when did he actually begin And what makes 149 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.440 this case interested in San Francisco, the Jones case is 150 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:29.919 you had an elderly lady who was found with pearls 151 00:10:29.960 --> 00:10:34.840 wrapped around her neck. There was allegedly finger marks on 152 00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:39.200 her neck, and she was having a room advertised for sale, 153 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:43.679 which became the modus operandim a room for rent, which 154 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:48.799 became his modus operandi. He would go to houses for 155 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.799 sale or for rooms to rent and present himself as 156 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:57.000 a potential person to rent the room, and when the 157 00:10:57.080 --> 00:11:01.960 landlady was alone, he would probably strangle her and most 158 00:11:02.039 --> 00:11:06.559 often have sex with the dead body. And later on 159 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.200 there was also a lot of robbery as a secondary motive, 160 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:15.120 so that he supported himself by stealing jewelry and clothing 161 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:18.080 and going to pawn shops and so on. Now this 162 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.240 case because it was never really looked at very carefully because, 163 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:27.799 as you know, doctor Shelby Strange was the person who 164 00:11:27.799 --> 00:11:31.360 did the autops heat simply said, well, she didn't die 165 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:36.679 of strangulation. She died of a heart attack or something, 166 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:41.279 or she had you know, the flu or pneumonia. She 167 00:11:41.399 --> 00:11:45.320 was an elderly lady, and so they closed the case, right, 168 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:49.919 So they never had a proper police investigation of saying, what, 169 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:53.279 you know, who was walking around of the apartment building 170 00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:56.879 looking for rooms to rant or whatever. So we don't 171 00:11:56.919 --> 00:12:01.080 really know. Now what's significant is that the next case 172 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:05.480 was also treated that way. This was a case where 173 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:08.480 a much younger lady who wasn't didn't appear to be 174 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:12.039 sick at all, was found in the room to rent, 175 00:12:12.399 --> 00:12:16.200 and she was completely naked lying on the bed. There 176 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:19.120 was all kinds of initial reports saying that she had 177 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:22.960 been sexually attacked. The clothing was in the order of 178 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:27.799 somebody who took the clothing off, as opposed to somebody 179 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:30.720 like herself who might have, you know, undressed herself in 180 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:35.159 a delirium or something. And doctor Shelby Strange said again, well, 181 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:39.600 and there was money missing and jewelry missing, and he said, well, 182 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:41.879 this is again a case of where she died of 183 00:12:41.879 --> 00:12:45.759 bronchitis or whatever, right, and she, you know, she took 184 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:48.559 her clothes off in a delirium and then the case 185 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:52.960 was closed again. And so it was doctor Leland who 186 00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:57.799 was the coroner ultimately presented these cases. These two cases 187 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:03.279 from nineteen twenty five when Rol Nelson was undoubtedly killing 188 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:06.120 women in San Francisco. I mean, they didn't know who 189 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:09.159 the guy was, but they called him the Dark Strangler. 190 00:13:09.799 --> 00:13:13.240 He was killing other land ladies in San Francisco area, 191 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.919 and the last San Francisco murder of Edmunds was murdered 192 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.720 in the radio room with the house for sale. He 193 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:27.440 put those two cases of Jones and Anderson to the 194 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:31.320 inquest jury, and the inquest jury at that time said, 195 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:35.039 these were two other cases that could be attributed to 196 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:39.120 the Dark Strangler. So they're very suspicious in these two 197 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:44.919 cases because they involved access to a landlady with a 198 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:51.159 room for rent, and suspicious circumstances as to strangulation and 199 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.600 bodies that might have been sexually attacked, but that was 200 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:59.919 never tested for. Although in Anderson at least Shelby did 201 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:03.559 send away for a d vaginal smear. I have all 202 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.279 of the reports of the coroner, but I don't have 203 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.200 the results of any test. There's nothing on there saying 204 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:11.720 what that result might have been. 205 00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:19.159 That Jesus has an opportunity to stop to hear these messages. Now, 206 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:23.799 there are other murders in nineteen twenty five that you include. 207 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:29.200 You say that the Dark Strangler moves, so tell us 208 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:31.440 where his next murders are. 209 00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:36.879 Well, in nineteen twenty five, there are three murders in 210 00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:43.000 October and November in Philadelphia. And here is sort of 211 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:47.559 more of a weak leak. They're not sure whether these 212 00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:51.159 murders should be attributed to him or not. We know 213 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:55.039 that he travels across the country, you know, nineteen twenty seven, 214 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:58.759 the first part of the years, he's in America, all 215 00:14:58.759 --> 00:15:03.679 over the place, Philadelphi, Buffalo, he sends postcards from the East. 216 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:07.960 Was he already in the East already then? And it's 217 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:12.279 quite possible that he was. What makes these cases interesting 218 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:15.320 is that all of them, all three of these cases 219 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:19.080 in Philadelphia, in the same kind of neighborhood, were all 220 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:24.559 land ladies. Okay, now that's a big clue, but we 221 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:29.120 don't have evidence. And by the way, all of Philadelphia 222 00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:33.600 police reports are destroyed. According to the letter said to me, 223 00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:38.320 we don't have evidence that these were for sale or 224 00:15:38.360 --> 00:15:40.600 for rent in the sense that there was a sign 225 00:15:40.679 --> 00:15:43.759 on the door saying room for rent. But all three 226 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:46.720 of the ladies were had rumors, and so they were 227 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:50.960 land ladies. All three of the ladies were strangled on 228 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:54.639 the main floor and taken up to a bedroom on 229 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:57.720 the upper floor. And of course when you take a 230 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:02.399 body upstairs, there's a strong sense that maybe you're dealing 231 00:16:02.440 --> 00:16:06.720 with necrophilia, right, because why would you do that. Why 232 00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:09.519 would you carry a body upstairs? You know, if you 233 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:12.840 just wanted to kill them and steal, then you would 234 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:18.080 sort of escape. The third case in Philadelphia of Lena 235 00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:22.440 Wine or a younger woman, that the person who killed 236 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:28.159 her also stole a whole suitcase full of clothing from 237 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.440 a room. And this is again a very typical part 238 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.120 of his motus operandi. He was kind of a clothing 239 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:40.080 fetish guy. Constantly was stealing clothing and then taking it 240 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:44.960 to the pawn shop and trying to get some money 241 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:48.240 for the clothing. And so again that's a kind of 242 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.679 a circumstance that makes it look suspicious, right, And the 243 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:58.240 pawnshop operator was found who bought all this clothing, and 244 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:03.039 he described the man as dark skinned and swarthy, and 245 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.440 of course that's typical of the fact that he was 246 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:10.319 called his dark skin and his sort of they called 247 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:14.880 him an Italian looking person with all of type skin. 248 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.640 But the pawn shop operator thought that he was a 249 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:22.920 light skinned Negro, and so everything got off the rails. 250 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:26.240 At this stage is the police were arresting tons of 251 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:32.720 black people, charging them with the offense, and ultimately nothing 252 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:35.519 ever came of that. But they were looking for the 253 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:38.480 wrong kind of person. Instead of a dark skinned white person, 254 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:42.440 they were looking for a lighter skinned, lighter skin dark person. 255 00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:47.480 In the end, none of those murders, those three were solved. 256 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:50.960 But when a lady leader in nineteen twenty seven in 257 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:56.480 Philadelphia was murdered and was clearly linked to the dark 258 00:17:56.519 --> 00:17:59.119 Strangler or at that time what they called the Gorilla 259 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:04.400 man strangler, these other three cases were introduced to inquest 260 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:09.680 juries and the police, and ultimately the police we were 261 00:18:09.759 --> 00:18:12.559 told it's kind of ambiguous. Some of the police never 262 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:15.039 believed that these three should have been included in the 263 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:19.519 list right, and others thought it should be. Some of 264 00:18:19.519 --> 00:18:22.960 the newspapers suggested that the police concluded, finally in the 265 00:18:23.079 --> 00:18:27.200 end that these three murders were also part of the 266 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:29.599 murderous trail of the Dark Strangler. 267 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:36.359 Let's talk about nineteen twenty six and the official beginning 268 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:41.359 of the Dark Stranglers murders. February twentieth, nineteen twenty six. 269 00:18:41.960 --> 00:18:44.559 You talk about Clara Newman, a sixty year old on 270 00:18:44.640 --> 00:18:49.759 February twentieth, nineteen twenty six, body found in a vacant 271 00:18:49.759 --> 00:18:53.480 apartment on the third floor, and her nephew Mertin Newman, 272 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:59.559 said he had witnessed this person in the presence of 273 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:02.240 his act tell us this. 274 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:07.039 This is where the Dark Strangler moniker begins. And of 275 00:19:07.039 --> 00:19:10.599 course the murder itself has all the classic elements, you know, 276 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:14.680 going to the door, asking for whom, being shown her room, 277 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.200 killing the land lady, having sex with the dead body, 278 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.079 and so on. And he didn't steal anything at this stage. 279 00:19:22.519 --> 00:19:25.319 But as he's walking out of the house, the nephew 280 00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:29.359 sees him and it's sort of a fleeting glance. It's 281 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:33.960 not like a major kind of confrontation. The guy says, Oh, 282 00:19:34.039 --> 00:19:36.240 go tell the landlady, I'll be back in an hour 283 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.240 to rent the room and then all of a sudden, 284 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:41.480 he's waiting for the land for his aunt to come down, 285 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:43.519 as she never does. And of course they finally go 286 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:47.400 to this locked apartment upstairs and find her lying in 287 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:52.839 the kitchen, strangled and dead. And he described this person 288 00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:56.480 fairly decently in terms of height, I mean, Earl Nelson 289 00:19:56.559 --> 00:20:00.319 turned out to be five foot six about, and he 290 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.319 described the dark skin and you know, the sworthy nature 291 00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:08.400 of the guy. And subsequently, as more and more murders happened, 292 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:12.799 this fellow Merton Newman was taken by the police to 293 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:15.920 look at all kinds of suspects, you know, you're there 294 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:20.720 and everywhere, and of course his mind became totally befuddled 295 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:23.680 by post event information because he just looked at a 296 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.240 whole bunch of different people, you know, so he probably 297 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.319 can't really distinguish between what he originally saw on who 298 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:33.359 all the other people he saw. But he eliminated a 299 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:35.960 lot of the suspects by saying, no, that's not the man, 300 00:20:36.160 --> 00:20:40.000 you know. And very shortly after that, these murders in 301 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:45.359 California started to accumulate, and the police right away linked 302 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.480 them all together like it wasn't as if in today's 303 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:51.319 world we talk about, you know, how you know there's 304 00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:55.559 so many serial killers at one stage, and police officers 305 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.200 in one jurisdiction don't know what happened in another jurisdiction. 306 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.960 Back then, this kind of killing was kind of rare, 307 00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:07.599 and so police officers all up and down the coast 308 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:13.039 knew about the fact that some guy was killing landladies 309 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:16.359 under the guise of taking a room, and so these 310 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:20.680 cases were linked always together, very very quickly, which might 311 00:21:20.720 --> 00:21:23.920 not have happened in today's world, even when it was 312 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:28.000 outside of San Francisco and San Jose or Stockton or wherever. 313 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.720 Right, you're right that the murders continued. March second, nineteen 314 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:36.799 twenty six, Laura Bale, a sixty four year old, again 315 00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:40.400 a landlady, showed a man in an apartment. June tenth, 316 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:44.319 nineteen twenty six, lilyan Saint Mary, sixty three year old 317 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:50.400 in San Francisco, again renting rooms. This case with Lily 318 00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:55.279 and Saint Mary where her chest was crushed. Tell us 319 00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:57.640 a little about the details of this and where the 320 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.960 gorilla like murderer came from. 321 00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:04.640 Yeah, I mean, that was the beginning of the possibility 322 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:09.119 of not just calling him the Dark Strangler, calling him 323 00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:12.599 the Gorilla Man, because of the fact that she was 324 00:22:12.680 --> 00:22:16.440 found on the bed, fully clothed, ready to go out 325 00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:20.440 for her afternoon shop. She had, of course a room 326 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:25.519 for rent. She was probably strangled and crushed on the 327 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:28.519 floor and then lifted onto the bed. And in this 328 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.759 case she was so frail that her ribs were broken 329 00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:35.119 on both sides. There's more on one side than the other. 330 00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:38.720 And so the newspapers, you know, sort of called him 331 00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:42.960 a very powerful man who could crush the ribs of 332 00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:47.440 the victim and called him a gorilla But that moniker 333 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:52.160 gorilla Man didn't really take off until nineteen twenty seven, 334 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:55.720 when he was already on the East coast, and that's 335 00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.359 when the newspaper started to call him gorilla Man as 336 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:03.359 opposed to the dark Strangler. And when he came to Winnipeg, 337 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:07.799 he was called the gorilla Man, and all the newspapers 338 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.960 you know, called him that the moniker. Gorilla Man itself 339 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:15.240 is kind of an adavist moniker, you know, the idea 340 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:18.519 that back in the day, in the nineteen twenties, he 341 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.880 still had kind of a physiological idea that criminals had 342 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.920 sloped foreheads, large hands, long arms, you know, they could. 343 00:23:26.200 --> 00:23:29.680 They physically showed that they were kind of a throwback 344 00:23:29.720 --> 00:23:33.839 of the evolutionary chain. Of course, their moral degeneracy showed 345 00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:37.240 how terrible they were. They weren't really human beings. They 346 00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:41.160 were somebody other than us. You know, there was a 347 00:23:42.440 --> 00:23:44.200 I think I mentioned in one of my books that 348 00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:46.680 there was, you know, a person who worked with gorillas 349 00:23:46.680 --> 00:23:49.160 who thought that the use of the word gorilla man 350 00:23:49.279 --> 00:23:51.920 was kind of a defamation of gorillas who were actually 351 00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:55.759 gentle folks, who were vegetarians and didn't really do anything 352 00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:56.960 unless they were disturbed. 353 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:01.480 Yeah. Very interesting you say that part of the gorilla 354 00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:04.240 thing was that they reported early on that he had 355 00:24:04.279 --> 00:24:08.240 gorilla like hands. Yeah, and also that there was a 356 00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:12.599 you include a profile that was done early on by 357 00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:17.200 four experts, and one was very very interesting, mister Chauncey 358 00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:21.519 McGovern and he had the most interesting What did he 359 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:25.359 have to say in terms of conclusion of the profile 360 00:24:25.519 --> 00:24:26.200 of this killer. 361 00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:33.000 Well, I think the profiles were actually quite insightful in 362 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:37.240 the sense that, you know, they were talking about somebody 363 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:42.000 who today we would call a psychopath, somebody without conscience, 364 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:47.880 somebody who never had regrets, lied through their teeth. I mean, 365 00:24:47.880 --> 00:24:53.880 he had a million aliases constantly lying probably a fairly 366 00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:58.480 high hubris in the sense of narcissism. Also in terms 367 00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:02.160 of mode, we'd have to talk about Earld Nelson's background 368 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:06.000 to talk about motive, you know, the idea of perhaps 369 00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:12.039 displaced anger at not being accepted in society, or taking 370 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:18.319 out anger at his grandmother or his dead mother, and 371 00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:22.240 so a lot of this insight was pretty dead on, 372 00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:24.119 you know, and this is way back when he had 373 00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.319 only supposed to be killed two or three people. 374 00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:32.519 Let's talk about just briefly about some of that background. 375 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:37.000 You had mentioned that he had escape from a mental 376 00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:41.240 institution insane asylum in nineteen twenty three, but also you've 377 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:43.920 just mentioned the talk of his mother dying when he 378 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.200 was very very young, and then his father died when 379 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.920 he was very young, and then he went into the 380 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:54.599 custody of relatives. Tell us also about the gonorrhea and 381 00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:56.680 syphilists that plagued this man. 382 00:25:57.319 --> 00:26:00.519 Yeah, well, thank you. Earl Nelson was born in eighteen 383 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:06.000 ninety seven, and he was born in his paternal grandparents' house. 384 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:09.319 His mother and father were married, you know, when they 385 00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:14.240 were like she was seventeen and I was nineteen when 386 00:26:14.279 --> 00:26:17.440 he was a baby. His mother died when he was 387 00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:21.200 about ten months old, and his father died a little 388 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.559 bit later than that. We have no evidence that at 389 00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.319 the time that he was born the parents who were 390 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:33.079 living together. Father was actually a shipped seaman, was out 391 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:36.559 in the Panama Coaster or whatever, and he came down 392 00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:41.200 with Panama fever and he ultimately was blind and he died. 393 00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:46.039 And the obet doesn't even mention his wife and child. 394 00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:49.240 We think that they were probably estranged from each other. 395 00:26:50.000 --> 00:26:54.759 Now at trial, we have evidence that she died of 396 00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:59.640 syphilis allegedly got from that she received from her husband. 397 00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:02.480 It may be that husband received it from her. We 398 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:05.559 don't know any of the facts like that. But he 399 00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:09.799 lost both his parents as an infant, and of course 400 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.839 throughout his life he talks about syphilis being a curse 401 00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:15.200