WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.840 --> 00:00:03.720 I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekenana Show. 2 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:08.039 I am here again with Thomas seven seven seven, but 3 00:00:08.160 --> 00:00:12.160 we have something a little different, a little diversion plans 4 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:12.839 for today. 5 00:00:13.240 --> 00:00:15.519 How are you doing, Thomas, I'm well, thank you, thanks 6 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:17.559 for hosting me again as always. 7 00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:22.039 Yeah. Well, I had contacted you and said, instead of 8 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:25.079 Cold War Part six with the holidays coming up, let's 9 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:29.679 pick that up after the holidays were over. But there 10 00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:32.920 was a book that I read a few years ago 11 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.600 when I found out how how many people at the time, 12 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:41.719 influential people, people who became leaders, were inspired by it. 13 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:46.240 Reflections on Violence by Sorel. And then I found out 14 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:48.960 that the Imperium Press version had a forward by you, 15 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:53.439 So I decided to have you on and let's discuss it. 16 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:55.640 I think that this can go in a lot of 17 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:57.320 different directions. 18 00:00:57.399 --> 00:00:59.560 Yeah, I appreciate the opportunity man definitely. 19 00:01:00.439 --> 00:01:02.359 When did Cerell come on your radar? Like, when did 20 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:03.159 you read him first? 21 00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:06.760 You know, it's interesting because a lot of people, a 22 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:11.120 lot of people associate Cerel like and some of these 23 00:01:11.120 --> 00:01:13.439 other thinkers with with kind of the rise of like, 24 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:16.799 you know, a kind of right wing subculture on the Internet. 25 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:18.879 I came to Cerel before that. I'm not trying to 26 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:21.840 sound like some like original like or something like O G. 27 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:24.000 He was like, oh I knew about Cerrell before. But 28 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:27.640 in the stuff in the National Alliance would put out 29 00:01:27.719 --> 00:01:30.640 and then Situde for Historical Review, that stuff is pretty 30 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:34.680 weighty man, you know, like William Pierce whatever, whatever anybody 31 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:36.640 thinks of him or things of that whole scene. You know, 32 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:38.719 he was, he was in He was a serious intellectual. 33 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.640 You know, he read tons of stuff, some some of 34 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:44.760 which I I didn't really connect with. You know, he 35 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:47.359 was a big will William Gelly Simpson guy, and he 36 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:49.599 was a big kind of you know, you spent a 37 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:51.239 lot of time with you know a lot of this 38 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:54.799 kind of like social Darwinist stuff that I don't put 39 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:57.640 a lot of stock in. But uh, he'd reference George 40 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.439 Sorell okay like on some of his adv broadcast us 41 00:02:01.120 --> 00:02:03.640 and more than a passing capacity, and the I HR 42 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:09.680 and guys like Hke Thompson and Teth Stimley and and 43 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:12.240 and the like like, they they'd raised Currel all the 44 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:15.039 time and they considered him to be like a serious thinker. 45 00:02:15.080 --> 00:02:17.919 And one of the reasons why is because part of 46 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:20.879 their whole part of their whole mandate is the IHR. 47 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:23.280 I mean, they're just still putting out great content that's 48 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:27.240 very very relevant. They made the transition to to the 49 00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:32.280 information age very seamlessly. But during the Cold War, you know, 50 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:35.000 during the early Reagan era was kind of when when 51 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:40.319 they launched and became really active. So obviously, like they 52 00:02:40.319 --> 00:02:45.719 were constantly kind of defending the revisionist perspective against allegations like, oh, well, 53 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:47.919 you know, the Second World War among the things that 54 00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:50.400 you know, it was a fight against these like socialist 55 00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:54.639 uh conceits and and and the brutalities that derived there 56 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:56.680 in and you know, the Third Reich it was just 57 00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:59.800 another socialist government and we all socialism as godless thing 58 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:02.319 that you know, it doesn't have any likes to stand on. 59 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:04.199 And why would anybody on the right, you know, paid 60 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:08.439 any mind? And Sorell the the answer to that is 61 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:12.240 because of the thinkers like Sorell. And even if you've 62 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:14.199 gott no interest in kind of the different iterations of 63 00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:17.680 socialism and the revolutionary imperatives that you know kind of 64 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:21.240 became the the the animating mythologies of these of these 65 00:03:21.240 --> 00:03:24.000 inner were of the of these early twentieth century and 66 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:27.680 then later interwar ideologies. If you even you don't put 67 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:29.520 a lot of stock in that, you get if you 68 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.479 want to understand, if you want to understand European politics 69 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:35.479 after nine, after seventeen eighty nine, you've got to be 70 00:03:35.479 --> 00:03:40.520 in dialogue with socialism and you've got to understand, you know, what, how, 71 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:43.439 how how the right, how the revolutionary right was dealing 72 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:48.360 with those realities, you know, and Sorell was kind of 73 00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:52.960 first among those thinkers. And if I basically accept Ernest 74 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:58.199 Nolty's paradigm that uh the uh that that that that 75 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:01.960 Italian fascism and things that the Flange Party in Spain, 76 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:05.000 they were reacting. They were reaction against, you know, kind 77 00:04:05.000 --> 00:04:07.360 of the monarchist right and like the reactionary right as 78 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:10.639 much as they were a reaction against Marxist Leninism, and 79 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:13.879 then national socialism was u was a reaction to that. 80 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:18.439 And in dialectical terms, like you know, some premises that 81 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:21.360 were hostile and some that were not. But that's why 82 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:25.319 I understand George Sorel. And in America and people think 83 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.000 of the right, you know, they think of uh, they 84 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.680 think of uh that they think of Jeffersonians who you know, 85 00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:34.959 like like John C. Calhoun or they think of like 86 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:38.120 America first guys in the twenty overth century, you know, 87 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:40.800 and like that the Taft Republicans who were you know, 88 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.319 who are anti New Deal and anti interventionists, and both 89 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:46.720 of those guys, I mean, even the latter obviously they 90 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:49.800 were kind of traditional Hamiltonian nationalists. But you know, their 91 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:52.199 whole idea is you know, like get the government off 92 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:56.839 your back, you know, uh, you know, and uh and 93 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:59.759 and and decentralized authority and you know, the kind of 94 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:02.839 ha on the on their own terms to the kind of 95 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:08.480 class identities that most kind of European paradigms suggest are 96 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:13.079 are what informs political reality. But Sorell wasn't a class warrior. 97 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:15.040 And like we'll get into that, you know, like his 98 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:18.879 Sorel's his his kind of he was, you know, like 99 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:23.920 Nietzsche did before he viewed. Crell viewed culture is like 100 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:27.000 peaking early, you know, like the pre Soprietic area era, 101 00:05:27.399 --> 00:05:30.319 you know, like the pre Peloponnesian War era of Dori Gathens. 102 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:32.480 That's what Sorel, That's what thought was like the zenith 103 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:36.319 of like human culture and political organization Like it wasn't 104 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:38.279 some guy he was saying like, oh, we just got 105 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:40.480 to give. And he wasn't even he wasn't even like 106 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.079 he wasn't even like the the Stefan George circle or 107 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:45.759 like Earns the Younger. He wasn't even saying like, oh, 108 00:05:45.800 --> 00:05:47.319 we just we just got to inundate you know, the 109 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.720 working class with some kind of like patriotic or like 110 00:05:50.800 --> 00:05:53.800 racial life identity. He wasn't saying that at all. He 111 00:05:53.959 --> 00:05:57.079 was saying that, you know, there's a way, there's a 112 00:05:57.079 --> 00:06:00.800 way to insinuate into revolutionary consciousness among the workers, like 113 00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:03.399 something that's like culturally elevated, you know, and that that 114 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:06.160 will change things, and you know, educate people in a 115 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:08.920 way that you know is progressive, if not progressive with 116 00:06:08.959 --> 00:06:12.040 a capital key, but you know is progressive in terms 117 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:15.680 of you know, allowing them to can septualize themselves and 118 00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:18.600 conceptualize you know, political action, and in ways outside of 119 00:06:18.680 --> 00:06:21.720 this like narrow like paradigm of like you know, hostility 120 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:24.720 to capital and you know, control of one's labor and 121 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:27.160 you know, like material justice in terms of you know, 122 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:29.639 getting paid for one's labor. Like if you that's kind 123 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:32.279 of banal you know, not like that's not important. Obviously 124 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:35.399 it's important, but they can't be the end all purpose 125 00:06:35.480 --> 00:06:39.360 of your political activity, and it certainly doesn't rationalize you know, 126 00:06:39.439 --> 00:06:41.920 like like murdering your own countryman wholesale. I mean, if 127 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:44.600 that's what it comes down to, because that's you know 128 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.360 what the proverbial gods ordain. Okay, I mean you've got 129 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:49.319 to deal with that in a manly and serious way 130 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:52.480 and a stoic way. But that's not something you phind 131 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:56.560 for just because uh, you know, it's it's like, well, 132 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:58.839 you know, God is dead, so we were just gonna 133 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:01.519 find some kind of catalysts, you know, for violence that 134 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:04.439 they can be rationalized in the language of the day. 135 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:08.240 Like it wasn't saying that at all. But yeah, so. 136 00:07:08.319 --> 00:07:10.639 Let's talk a little bit about this because this is 137 00:07:11.879 --> 00:07:14.959 I mean, I've even written a little bit on this recently. 138 00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:21.720 It's the the socialist right. When you say, well, the 139 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:26.600 national Socialists were on the right, people lose their minds. 140 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:29.720 I mean, mind you, these are the same people who 141 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:34.160 use the term capitalism and don't realize where the you know, 142 00:07:34.240 --> 00:07:36.600 they know where the term came from. So they're like, well, 143 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:40.600 we're just taking that term for ourselves. And I think 144 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:43.079 what they would say is the difference between the left 145 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:49.160 and the right is egalitarianism. The left is egalitarian. So 146 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:54.360 was the socialist right egalitarian not in. 147 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:58.759 The sense of like like not not in a biological sense, 148 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:04.560 and uh not in not in the way that like 149 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:07.120 not not not in the way that in contemporary discourse 150 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:09.480 people think of it. And I'll qualify it too. Even 151 00:08:09.519 --> 00:08:12.560 a lot of people, a lot of people shouldn't know better, 152 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:16.480 misunderstand to what Marxy and equality was, you know, the 153 00:08:16.519 --> 00:08:19.040 whole like the secular human is. They've taken, you know, 154 00:08:19.079 --> 00:08:21.800 the idea of quote human dignity and kind of extraptly 155 00:08:21.839 --> 00:08:24.639 they all kind of strange things out of it. But Marx, 156 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:27.759 I've got nothing nice to say about Marx and Lenin. 157 00:08:28.079 --> 00:08:30.800 When Marx was talking about quote equality, he was talking 158 00:08:30.839 --> 00:08:35.240 about a kind of equal dignity across the class divide 159 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:38.200 and across you know, kind of the like the you know, 160 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:41.000 and and and eliminating and eliminating these kinds of contrived 161 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:47.440 distinctions between people based on rank, you know, and uh 162 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:50.120 you know this and and and and from there, you know, 163 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:55.320 like affording that kind of elevated dignity to the workers, whom, 164 00:08:55.600 --> 00:09:00.120 you know, in his estimation, were were the we're the 165 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:03.279 ones responsible for generating the wealth of the nation. Okay, 166 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:06.039 he wasn't saying like, oh, men, women are exactly the same, 167 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:09.320 or like there's no differences in intelligence between men, Like 168 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:14.399 that's a weird kind of cope that that that that 169 00:09:14.759 --> 00:09:17.960 like post ninety forty five cope that you know, people 170 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:20.960 who wanted to kind of maintain people who were not 171 00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:24.480 going to attack the capitalist system on structural terms. You know, 172 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:26.120 that was kind of like what they'd invoke in order 173 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:28.840 to say like no, actually, like we're we're more morally 174 00:09:28.879 --> 00:09:31.480 sound than than, you know, than than the Marxists and 175 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.279 in in the Soviet Union and their satellite states. That's 176 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:38.919 important to keep in mind. But the uh, the idea 177 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:42.000 of socialism, you know, it didn't originate with Marx and 178 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:44.600 that was that was one of Spangler's important points. Like 179 00:09:44.600 --> 00:09:47.080 even if you don't accept Spangler's view of history and 180 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:48.720 you think it's like, you know, just kind of needlessly 181 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:56.960 esoteric and mystical, his uh, his essay, his essay Prussian 182 00:09:57.159 --> 00:10:00.879 Prussianism and Socialism, and then later well, let's a degree 183 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:03.879 is a book. I mean, it's yeah, it's like a 184 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.240 longer I say that it's been turned, it's been beefed 185 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:11.919 up with like secondary analyzes, but the hour of decision 186 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:17.159 like basically the modern state as we know it in 187 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:20.759 structural terms like owes to the Prussian state okay, everything 188 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:24.440 from the military draft you know, to public education you know, 189 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:28.600 to having like pensions for for retired people like that 190 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:32.120 that came from the Prussians. Okay, and I mean even 191 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:34.600 that that's literally well in America too, like early education 192 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:38.240 is kindergarten okay, like it's not an accident. Okay. I 193 00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.120 mean so that's some and this is something that you 194 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:43.600 could be openly acknowledged, like it's not so much anymore. 195 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:45.679 I mean some that's political something that's just because people 196 00:10:45.759 --> 00:10:49.159 are kind of ignorant. But you know, it's not like 197 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:52.519 it's not like when Marx and Engels put their proverbial 198 00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:55.200 ink to paper. It's not like they it's it's not 199 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:57.200 like it's not like Europe was, you know, like this 200 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:00.840 feudal society or some or something of Jeffers in Yalemen 201 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:02.960 society like the Confederate States, and they were like, you 202 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:04.960 know what, we need to like beef up a government 203 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.600 that and you know, provide equity, you know, to people 204 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:09.840 based on their labor and can like look after like 205 00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:12.279 old folks. What they were doing was they were taking 206 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:15.639 something that already existed in places like Prussia and to 207 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:19.320 a lesser degree, you know, in places like France and 208 00:11:19.360 --> 00:11:22.080 the Habsburg Empire and saying like, okay, we've got to 209 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:24.679 like improve upon this and make it into a progressive 210 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:29.960 instrumentality to advance history. So this that's important your mind too. 211 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:33.360 Like if you're a European writing, you know, in the 212 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:36.399 in the in the nineteen hundreds, like Sorell, like you 213 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:40.440 were looking backwards at you know, your political heritage going 214 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:43.799 back about three centuries. We're just looking at Mars and saying, oh, 215 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:46.320 I see Marx's idea. I can improve upon that and 216 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:49.440 make it acceptable to the right. So that's important to 217 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:53.080 keep in mind. And you know, kind of the kind 218 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:57.679 of the first truly socialist institution is the modern military, 219 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:00.600 Like it is okay, Like it's not the military's a 220 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:02.200 lot of things. What it's not is it's not some 221 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:07.240 robustly capitalist thing, Okay, I mean it's and the Prussians, 222 00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.840 arguably this was their strength and their weakness Prussia really 223 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:14.200 is a wasteland. There's like nothing there, Okay. I mean 224 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:18.840 you can like farm dirt and rocks and uh you've 225 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:22.360 got you've got port access, but I mean other than that, 226 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:25.600 it's and you're surrounded by hostiles, okay. And I mean 227 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:29.399 and obviously like Prussia was, Prussia was. The Germans weren't 228 00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:32.440 the original occupants of Prussia, Okay, there was, there was, 229 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:34.600 There was There was a barbarian element there, like a 230 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:37.399 truely like pagan barbarian element of indigenous Slavs that the 231 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.120 ethnically cleansed, notcause the Germans are bad guys, I mean 232 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:43.120 at the cleansing is it was just wasn't It's just 233 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:45.320 the way it thinks, especially that part of the world. 234 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:48.720 But the kind of key institution of the Prussian state 235 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:51.720 was the Prussian Army. That's what made it possible. It 236 00:12:51.759 --> 00:12:56.639 was literally like this garrison state, okay. And so from 237 00:12:56.679 --> 00:12:59.159 that that's what they extrapolated kind of like their model 238 00:12:59.240 --> 00:13:02.159 of what of what of what society should look like 239 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:04.519 and how it should be organized. Like there's very much 240 00:13:04.519 --> 00:13:09.120 an odds like the Anglo American sensibility, but that's a 241 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:11.080 lot of things you can say that that's authoritarian. You 242 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:13.799 can say that doesn't respect people's freedom or individual liberty. 243 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:16.200 You can say that in some way it stunts like creativity, 244 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:18.240 and maybe it does. I don't see it that way, 245 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.840 but I also want to hold it out. It's like 246 00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:23.279 the zene of the human political development. But one thing 247 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:27.279 it's not is it all like left wing or or liberal. 248 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:30.919 I mean, it's it's the opposite and extreme terms, you know, 249 00:13:31.039 --> 00:13:33.919 I mean because yeah, like a military type structure, a 250 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:38.080 venture model, like, yeah, there's some kind of basic there there, 251 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:41.600 there's there's some kind of basic cohesion and respect for 252 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:44.840 like the various ranks. But it's it's singularly obsessed with rank, 253 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:47.799 you know. It's it's the elm of hierarchy. It has 254 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:50.639 no conceit that like, oh world equals here, you know 255 00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:54.519 at uh, it's very in fact that it very much 256 00:13:54.519 --> 00:13:57.879 repudiates that. So that's another part of keep in mind 257 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:00.080 and that that's basically what Sorel was getting in that, 258 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:04.159 you know, it is uh like what he was calling 259 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:09.879 for is you know, uh, a socialism that you know, 260 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:13.840 makes meaningful cultural activity possible and that reflects you know, 261 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:17.679 basic human nature in some way that's not totally at 262 00:14:17.679 --> 00:14:20.240 odds and reality. But again too, he was like he 263 00:14:20.279 --> 00:14:22.559 looked at dance like as a means of because again 264 00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:24.840 like his model, he's not saying like, oh, the kaiser 265 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:27.759 Reich is so great, or you know, Frederick, the seconds 266 00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:30.639 Prussia is so great. Like what he was saying was that, 267 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:34.559 you know, things went wrong when uh, things went wrong 268 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:38.519 when men like Socrates became powerful in ancient Athens. You know, 269 00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:41.919 like his his ideal was the the pre Socratic uh, 270 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:47.399 you know pelopon Uses, So. 271 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:55.679 The socialist right when they're coming to power, are they 272 00:14:56.279 --> 00:15:00.559 is there a rebellion against establishment liberalism or is there 273 00:15:00.600 --> 00:15:05.120 a rebellion against what is growing communism. 274 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:06.360 At the time, I mean, it was both, but it 275 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:08.039 depended than where you were at. If we're going to 276 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:11.000 use Vymar as kind of the I mean, obviously like 277 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:14.440 Swell with writing in the pre Buymar era in a 278 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.799 situation in France is more complicated, but if you're talking 279 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:20.679 about the real like if you're talking about the true 280 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:24.559 kind of divide dialectically and socially as well as politically 281 00:15:25.039 --> 00:15:27.440 and in terms of our conflict, obviously you know it 282 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:31.480 came down to like actual civil war that plays like Munich. 283 00:15:32.440 --> 00:15:35.840 There's a couple of things going on in the Bimar years. 284 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:40.159 You had UH, you had organizations like the Stalhelm you know, 285 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:43.159 that were basically you know, kaiser wright veterans who wanted 286 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:46.720 to turn things back to the way they were. But 287 00:15:47.320 --> 00:15:49.000 they and you know, and they they they were fighting 288 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:50.960 the case. They were the guys who constituted the early 289 00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:53.399 Free Corps. But then you had guys, you had guys 290 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:56.360 like Ernest Rahm and Joseph Gerbels who basically saw the 291 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:59.759 Communists as essentially correct in their methods that they were 292 00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:03.279 just you know, wrong in their in their ideological conceits. 293 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:05.600 You know. Gurbels would go as far as he he'd 294 00:16:05.679 --> 00:16:08.919 organized street protests with the KPD, you know, to bring 295 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:13.440 to bring down the UH, the unions that were like 296 00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:16.519 friendly to the Social Democrats, you know, and UH. And 297 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:18.919 this made a lot of people upset. And Gebels was 298 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.320 the one kind of stress or infection national socialist dinner 299 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:27.519 party man who survived the night at June h of 300 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:31.720 June nineteen thirty four. You know. So that's something keep 301 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:35.519 in mind. I think what really like I think national 302 00:16:35.559 --> 00:16:39.039 socialism like ossified into what it truly was when when 303 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:42.159 Hindenburg told the Hitler that Ernst Rahm and all of 304 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:46.039 his fellows and Stress had to die, and then Hitler 305 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:49.840 gave the order, and then Himmler and Seb Dietrich and 306 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:52.759 the rest of them not just carried it out, but 307 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:56.399 they also murdered guys like Kurt Schliker. I mean that 308 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:58.759 that was that's kind of like what turn national socialism 309 00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:02.799 into like a a pretty conventional right wing tendency. Honestly, 310 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.119 like I uh, not not in the sense of you know, 311 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:08.880 not not not not right wing in terms of like 312 00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:10.880 Donald Trump, or not even right wing in terms of 313 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:15.400 like Robert Taft, but by European standards, the Third Right 314 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.240 was more conventionally right wing than people will acknowledge. I 315 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.920 mean they because there's there's moronic stuff like like Joan 316 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:25.319 Goldberg saying like, oh, Fishers or a bunch of like 317 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:28.759 Hillary Clinton liberals or something like. But but there's serious 318 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:31.640 people too who aren't prone to that kind of moronic stuff, 319 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:35.039 who don't like really understand because they you know, they 320 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:41.240 read these like dispatches from uh, from from Dietrich Eckert 321 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.920 then and from Ernst ron like saying that yeah, God 322 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:45.799 is dead. You know, like the hell with the capital 323 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:48.319 listen to Jews like burn everything down. You know, we're 324 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:51.480 gonna we're gonna march on everything and we're gonna kill everybody, 325 00:17:51.519 --> 00:17:53.640 and we're gonna build those like new Society of the 326 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:55.759 Birss like that. I mean, those don't get me wrong. 327 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:57.960 Those guys are serious about that. That wasn't That wasn't 328 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.680 just like so much talk. And a lot of them 329 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:05.480 are frankly cyple bands. Well they they that that that 330 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:07.640 that came to an end in June nineteen thirty four. 331 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:10.880 And if if you're if you're killing people because a 332 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:13.440 man like Hindenburg is telling you that, like you know, 333 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:15.880 these men are these met are red revolutionary rebel. We 334 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.039 have to be stopped. Like you're a lot of things, 335 00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:20.559 but you're not left wing, okay when you're executing that order. So, 336 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:22.839 I mean, that's my opinion. I know some people disagree 337 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.599 with I. I've been studying the topic for a lot 338 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:27.240 of years. I think I had some insight. 339 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:31.799 Let's talk a little bit about what you you said 340 00:18:31.799 --> 00:18:36.200 about Europe and how Europe defined things differently than here. 341 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:41.680 When socialism or communism is mentioned here, it almost seems 342 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:45.920 like we just have this. We know exactly what's being said. 343 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:51.119 But from a European standpoint, especially at that time when 344 00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:56.160 socialism was spoken of or communism was spoken of, how 345 00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:01.519 did the European culture make it a different interpretation? Even 346 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:04.200 when you read Yaki, you know Yaki when he's talking 347 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:10.279 about when he's talking about Europe, it's a different language 348 00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:14.680 than the language that we're used to reading in the 349 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:17.640 books that you know, we're basically written by the victors. 350 00:19:18.119 --> 00:19:21.359 Yeah, no, definitely. Well, it's also too it goes back 351 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:24.519 to it goes back to sociological origins, you know, I 352 00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.359 mean America and some depending on where you fall on 353 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:31.519 it ethically, but also just depending on what kind of 354 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:34.519 weight you put on the different variables. You know, America 355 00:19:34.599 --> 00:19:37.640 is something of an incomplete society. I mean that's either 356 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:42.400 good or bad. But you know, everything that Europe was 357 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:46.440 trying to do in the modern era, okay, and it's 358 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:50.680 zenith in the twentieth century. We were trying to repair 359 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:54.200 the social fabriak in some ethical way that had been 360 00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:57.640 smashed after them after the Middle Ages. Okay. In the 361 00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:01.680 Middle Ages, there's this basic interdependence between everybody, you know, Uh, 362 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:05.480 the lords were dependent upon the serfs. Both were dependent 363 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.759 upon the king, and the intermediary between the two of 364 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:12.039 them was the clergy. You know, these people couldn't survive 365 00:20:12.119 --> 00:20:15.279 without each other. Like that cannot be overstated. You know 366 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:17.000 this idea that if you were like a lord of 367 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:19.759 the manor you know, you could just act like the 368 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:23.759 character in that silly mad Max movie who's like, you know, 369 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:27.480 for widering people to worship him from border or something like. 370 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.000 That's not That's not the way things were. Like I'm 371 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.440 not saying if you were a medieval serf, I'm not 372 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:32.960 saying to have some great life, and I'm not saying 373 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:35.759 you had some I'm not saying you had adequate remedies. 374 00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:39.640 If if you had a cruel master, but he needed you. 375 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:41.799 You know, he could not defend the land without you, 376 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.519 He could not chill the land without you. He had 377 00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:46.920 nothing if if if you were not willing to work. 378 00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:50.160 But in contrast, like you had, you had no access 379 00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:53.559 to justice, and you had you had no nobody to 380 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.640 navigate for you with with with royal authority, like if 381 00:20:57.640 --> 00:20:59.759 he did not exist. I mean, you had the church too, 382 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:02.160 but that was that the church weren't men who worked. 383 00:21:02.359 --> 00:21:05.160 They did very important things, but they they operate in 384 00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:07.880 a totally different world. I mean, so it's you didn't 385 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:10.200 have a direct line to authority unless you know, you 386 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:12.839 had to rapport with the lord of the manner. So 387 00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:17.519 that's fundamentally important. Would changed in the modern age and 388 00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:21.640 reach kind of its critical and in every sense you know, 389 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.200 and it like in existential terms and consideral terms reached. 390 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:30.599 It's kind of critical state. In the twentieth century, you know, 391 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:32.960 people were ripped off the land, they were thrown into 392 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:35.640 factories that literally employed ten to thousands of people in 393 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:38.839 these dangerous conditions where you were insinuated into some machine, 394 00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:41.359 you know, for hours and hours a day. I mean, 395 00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:44.119 if you died on the job, nobody really cared, or 396 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:46.759 if they did, it's say, well it's so much. It's 397 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:48.960 a mark in a Ledger book. You know, like you 398 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:51.160 don't have any rights. And it's not even even if 399 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:53.519 somebody wanted to confer upon you some kind of voice 400 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.680 or wanted to you know, kind of make you a 401 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.480 lot like better, just like the velocity of production and 402 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.000 the trajet three of things, like there was you didn't 403 00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:06.559 you didn't matter, you know, you were you became totally dehumanized, 404 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.559 you know, and that's what the socialists were trying to do. 405 00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:12.119 They're like we on the right and the left, they're like, 406 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:14.640 you know, we we've got to repair this kind of 407 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:18.000 social fabric and this iner dependence and there's basical basic 408 00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:21.599 ethical unity of classes and functions, you know, so that 409 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:24.480 people aren't being treated like a commodity and so that 410 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:26.400 like when they die in the job, you know, they're 411 00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:29.559 just not like shoveled away like so much garbage, like literally, 412 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:31.759 you know, I mean, that's that's the way to keep 413 00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:33.519 in mind. That's the thing to keep in mind. Like 414 00:22:33.559 --> 00:22:38.359 in America, there there wasn't some medieval order from which 415 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.599 things originated, like even in the South, like people, I know, 416 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:44.160 the Southerners themselves kind of looked at themselves as uh 417 00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:48.279 as uh as. It's kind of like lords and knights, 418 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.440 which wasn't totally inaccurate, but it was more like but again, 419 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:54.400 it was more like Athens than it was like uh 420 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:57.359 then then it was like you know, a thirteenth century England, 421 00:22:57.799 --> 00:23:00.640 you know, like you had like the South is made 422 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.640 up of like kulak twype. You know, there were white 423 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:06.559 surfs and there were black slaves, but they weren't the majority. 424 00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.440 The majority was not like rich plantation owners and like 425 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:13.119 poor serfs and like slaves who work property. Like. The 426 00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:16.440 majority was like small freehold farmers who were doing their 427 00:23:16.440 --> 00:23:20.359 own thing. And that's that's supposedly the American ideal. Okay, 428 00:23:20.440 --> 00:23:22.599 like now it's like a small businessman. I'm not saying 429 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:24.160 that the actually the way things are, but that's like 430 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:28.319 what's idealized. But you know, the in America, if you're 431 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:32.240 on the right, your idea isn't like, well, you know, 432 00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:34.599 we gotta we gotta bring things back to you know, 433 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:37.079 the throne and altar and like reverence for God and 434 00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:39.359 God's emissaries on earth, and you know, we got to 435 00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:43.240 create some kind of codependent between the classes that's not dysfunctional. 436 00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:46.319 Like the ideal is like, you know, I need I 437 00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:48.799 need to be given the opportunity to like till the 438 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.640 land and get what's mine, and you know, had the 439 00:23:51.680 --> 00:23:53.759 government stay off my bed, not take the fruit of 440 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:56.880 my labor. I mean, the totally different sensibility, but one 441 00:23:56.960 --> 00:23:59.359 is not superior to the other. I mean, obviously I'm 442 00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:02.240 more sympathetic to the American model because that's my heritage, 443 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:04.920 and I you know, and then plus that's just like 444 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:07.880 what's realistic, Like you can't, well there is that did 445 00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.200 GOPHI when I mean realized some of those polemical, but 446 00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:12.920 some of these idiots actually believe this. Like when when 447 00:24:13.039 --> 00:24:15.920 like when like regime loyal people are when these like 448 00:24:16.039 --> 00:24:18.720 mother Jones types claimed that like Donald Trump's this big 449 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:21.359 fascist or something. I mean that's like retarded from as 450 00:24:21.400 --> 00:24:24.440 a reason. But like some radical right wing guy like 451 00:24:24.440 --> 00:24:26.519 if George Wallas become president or he would want to 452 00:24:26.519 --> 00:24:29.920 become president, it would not look anything like Germany in 453 00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:32.599 nineteen thirty three. You're like Italy in nineteen twenty two, 454 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:35.240 Like that's ridiculous. That's not the way we do things here. 455 00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:38.359 Like that's like that's like saying that that says retarded 456 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:40.920 as saying like, oh, if Donald Trump paid his way, 457 00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:42.960 you know he would he would he you know, he 458 00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:46.240 would be like the holy Roman Emperor. Like it doesn't 459 00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:48.759 it doesn't make any sense. But I you know, like 460 00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:51.359 I made the point before that the entire like civic 461 00:24:51.400 --> 00:24:54.400 religion of America is like is anti fascism, which which 462 00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:59.799 is particularly kind of asidine in this country. But yeah, well. 463 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.920 That that set me up perfectly so we know because 464 00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:08.960 you know, Genteel Gentili wrote what fascism was in Italy, 465 00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:13.799 but as far as I know, you know, really nobody 466 00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:18.559 in Germany at the time was writing what socialism meant 467 00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:21.640 to them? What socialist? You know, you can listen to 468 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:23.799 the Strasser debates and everything, and you can get it. 469 00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:27.599 You can get an idea, but in your opinion, what 470 00:25:27.599 --> 00:25:31.480 what the national socialism of Germany? What did what did 471 00:25:31.480 --> 00:25:33.119 that socialism actually mean? 472 00:25:34.000 --> 00:25:36.039 I mean they were drawing upon a couple of things, 473 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:38.079 and if you read there's not a lot you can extrapolate. 474 00:25:38.519 --> 00:25:42.279 I was telling people to read Hitler's second book because 475 00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:46.240 it's instructive, but it flushes out as geostrategic ideas and 476 00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:48.720 some other things and it's just interesting reading. You know, 477 00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:52.400 it was never published, like the manuscript was found by 478 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:54.440 the US Army and then it was handed over to 479 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:58.839 its handled an Army intelligence and chain of custody was weird, 480 00:25:59.160 --> 00:26:01.279 but it is. It has been authenticated. I mean it 481 00:26:01.599 --> 00:26:05.240 was it was Taylor's actual manuscript, but it wasn't published 482 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:09.319 and available at public until after the war. But you know, people, 483 00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:11.160 there's not like there's not like you can extrap away 484 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.359 from mine cop that's why it's idiotic. But people, oh, 485 00:26:13.359 --> 00:26:15.480 it's a boring book. It's like, well, yeah, it's it's 486 00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.759 it's it's an electioneer screed from the nineteen twenties, Like 487 00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:23.359 why why would it be interesting today? But what is 488 00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:28.519 interesting like when he talks about when he when when 489 00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:33.880 Hiller talks about his his ideas on conflict between human populations, 490 00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:38.200 like that's that's instructive. And also, you know, I made 491 00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:40.720 the point of people before Hitler was he was just 492 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:46.880 Catholic Habsburg, Austrian who uh basically identified his movements as 493 00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:50.759 the legacy of the Prussian state. And you know, the 494 00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:54.279 the December eleventh speech the Reichstag, which is really Hitler's 495 00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:56.839 last public address of the Reichstag. You know, that's like 496 00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:01.920 when he issued the declaration of war against America, he 497 00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:05.480 talks about, uh, he talks about we like the royal 498 00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:07.680 we like in a reference to the Prussians and the 499 00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.240 Napoleonic Wars. Okay, so I mean he's saying like and 500 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:13.599 then then that's notable because like, you know, Prussia was 501 00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:15.519 at odds with the rest of the German kingdoms. I 502 00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:18.880 mean that's a little bit off topic, but he has 503 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.119 it may like Adalf Hitler himself. If Adolf Hitler is 504 00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:25.079 like the standard bearer of like right wing socialism in Bymar, 505 00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:26.680 which I mean, I think I think we can say 506 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:29.960 that he was, because he's the man who became king. Proverbially, 507 00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:33.519 his view was what I just said. It was that 508 00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:36.680 you know, the the proper like German, the proper German 509 00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:40.640 model of a national life is is Prussia, and and 510 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.920 the Prussian model was based on was based on the army, 511 00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:48.559 and you know the the cynegepe baratus that that were 512 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:53.119 vote around that. So I mean, that's the way, that's 513 00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.519 what you can think of German socialism. Of course, to 514 00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:59.319 your point, guys like Strasser, guys like ram Uh Kurt 515 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:02.440 von Schleich or I think was a lesser aristocrat who 516 00:28:02.519 --> 00:28:05.039 was basically cynical and he didn't really care, but he 517 00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:08.839 was obviously through his lot with with Strasser and ram 518 00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:11.880 because he wanted to destroy Hitler. But all these guys, 519 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:14.200 at least what they were advocating in public was they 520 00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:16.359 were saying, like, you know, Hitler is a tool of 521 00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:20.960 the bourgeoisie. He's not really a revolutionary, he's just a 522 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:26.440 reactionary and he's a petty bougeois buffoon. So I mean, 523 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:30.000 the no true Scotsman stuff about socialism, A lot of 524 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:33.279 that was interesting rivalry between national socialists. It's not like 525 00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:38.160 the German street was. We're like nineteen seventies era, like 526 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:40.640 you know Berkeley types, you know, talking about like who's 527 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:43.480 a real socialist. It was a lot more. It was 528 00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:45.519 a lot less existential and like a lot more like 529 00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:48.160 polemical and kind of cynical than that. I mean, that's 530 00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:53.559 my view, and I think I'm something. It's not an expert. 531 00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:55.240 I think I have some I think I have some 532 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:57.079 expertise on the topic. At least. 533 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:00.240 I want to get back to Sorel, but I wanted 534 00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:04.960 to mention this. So you mentioned that Prussia was based 535 00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:08.160 off of the military. A lot of people, a lot 536 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:13.039 of Americans, point out that, you know, Prussian schooling is 537 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:16.559 you know, what's his name, I can't even remember his name. 538 00:29:16.640 --> 00:29:16.839 Now. 539 00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:22.839 He went to Prussia, saw saw how the schooling was done, 540 00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:28.279 and basically brought it back. And but what a lot 541 00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:31.759 of people will say is that all that schooling is 542 00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:35.440 meant to do is turn people into a cog in 543 00:29:35.559 --> 00:29:39.920 the machine to be plugged in so if that is true, 544 00:29:40.519 --> 00:29:45.119 it seems like that is creating a group of people 545 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:49.000 in that there the students, If the students are all 546 00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:54.079 learning the same thing, then that could be seen as egalitarian. 547 00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:59.319 Yeah, well the difference two of courses. Yeah, it's not 548 00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:02.400 just that. Know, the Prussian model identifies that, you know, 549 00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:05.559 the vast difference in human intellect and abilities and kind 550 00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:08.640 of organizes people and the perobial slots or organize them 551 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:11.519 based on you know, how those things can be cultivated 552 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.319 and utilized. But also like the core of the Prussian 553 00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:18.480 ethos is, you know, the the racial community. So if 554 00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:20.920 you take that Prussian model, when you utilize it as 555 00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:23.440 kind of a way of of the rant and people 556 00:30:23.480 --> 00:30:25.400 and saying, Okay, you're not like a Mexican, you're not 557 00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:28.160 like a white man. You're not you're not black. You know, 558 00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:31.680 you're not you're not Asian, You're you're just you're just American. 559 00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:34.359 You just have the civic identity where you're not gonna 560 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:36.559 speak your own language anymore. You know, you're not gonna 561 00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:39.640 go to your own church anymore. You're not gonna you know, 562 00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:43.960 you're not gonna abide these habits anymore of your forebears, 563 00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:48.680 you know, like that's like that's what's really asitious about 564 00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:51.039 like the New Dealer or like American model. It's not 565 00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:53.400 it's not so much that it declares that like every 566 00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:55.480 man is gonna have some kind of like income in common, 567 00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:57.160 or that it's going to like reduce you know, like 568 00:30:57.200 --> 00:31:00.680 the proverbial disparity you know between the ownership cast and 569 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.880 what was then the working cast. Like what was insidious 570 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.119 about is that it was tailed to essentially like strict 571 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:10.000 people of any ability to live historically and any like 572 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:13.319 meaningful you know, actual cultural identity. You know, it's gonna 573 00:31:13.359 --> 00:31:16.400 like alienate Mann from his heritage and from history in 574 00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:20.319 absolute terms. Like that's the big difference. And that's also 575 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:24.359 why I object a lot. There's something to it when 576 00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:27.640 people talk about quote cultural Marxism, if they're talking about 577 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:31.960 Gramsey and Adorno like contra marx and angles, but they 578 00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:34.720 don't understand that like a lot of this, a lot 579 00:31:34.759 --> 00:31:36.920 of this doesn't have to do with Orthodox and Marxism 580 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:39.880 or Frankward School stuff at all. A lot of it's 581 00:31:39.920 --> 00:31:43.440 like New Dealer bullshit, you know, like raceline, Like God 582 00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:46.359 is dead. You know, we we we know now that 583 00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:49.880 like everything is reducible to you know, data derived from 584 00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:53.000 the scientific method. You know, the man's basically just like 585 00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:54.920 an animal who can talk, and you know, there's no 586 00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:57.319 more history and there's no more culture. All that matters 587 00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:00.680 is making man more suitable to governance and eminating these 588 00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:03.599 you know, these problems like you know, like like like 589 00:32:03.680 --> 00:32:05.839 conflict between the races, or like men and women not 590 00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:07.640 getting along, like that's. 591 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:11.519 Like that kind of or family. I mean, just read 592 00:32:11.559 --> 00:32:13.000 the authoritarian personality. 593 00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:16.440 Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean there's like a pastiche like 594 00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:19.759 definitely like Frankward school stuff and and and that kind 595 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:23.200 of thing became pre eminent, like in especially like as 596 00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:26.440 as the American left broke entirely, not just the American left, 597 00:32:26.480 --> 00:32:28.279 but in Europe, like with the left just in in 598 00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:32.200 macro terms, like broke with like Stalinism and decided like 599 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:34.640 the East Block or their enemy. I mean, this was 600 00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:37.039 long in coming, but they were looking around or some 601 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:40.359 kind of or some ideological cannon and they settled down 602 00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:42.839 like the Frankward school. But this is also what had 603 00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:46.880 been turned loose on on on on divided Germany, you know, 604 00:32:46.960 --> 00:32:50.079 I mean, so there's a lot of things. Yeah, this 605 00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:53.279 definitely became part of like the American conceptual arise, like 606 00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:56.160 in policy terms as well as academic and electual terms. 607 00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:57.640 But there was a lot of stuff that also like 608 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:00.440 preceded it, you know, like these fools like were uh 609 00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:03.079 who built like that part of education and all that 610 00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:05.759 kind of stuff, and and these and these, uh and 611 00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:07.920 even even even a lot of guys who proceeded in 612 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.599 their dealers like Colonel House, who was uh, you know, 613 00:33:11.640 --> 00:33:15.400 Wills kind of the Wilson's uh kind of Machiavelli, you know, 614 00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:19.359 administered without portfolio like uh, even he was like prone 615 00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:21.359 to a lot of that kind of nonsense. Like House 616 00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:23.880 wrote that he wrote this really bad science fiction novel 617 00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:26.519 where there was like this benevolent dictator who was obviously 618 00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:30.079 supposed to be himself, and uh he basically like you know, 619 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:32.279 finds a way to like strip man of any like 620 00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:35.559 historical identity, and he like forces everybody to speak this 621 00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:38.440 like esperantial language. So now there's like no more war, 622 00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:41.160 and this great man becomes like god on earth because 623 00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:43.440 there's no more war. And it's like why why would 624 00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:46.359 that be remotely desirable? It sounds like a nightmare, Like 625 00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:48.759 like idiots like Colonel House, like there's some like great 626 00:33:48.839 --> 00:33:53.160 utopia that like you know that quits government of any 627 00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:56.039 criticism because you know, the the greatest thing ever is 628 00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.359 somehow like if black kids had high test scores and 629 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:01.440 like everyone he was going to be prison were war 630 00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:04.359 is impossible? Like Nova explain like why these things are 631 00:34:04.400 --> 00:34:06.400 so awesome, but like that's their conceit. 632 00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:11.119 Let me just uh try to nail down exactly what 633 00:34:11.159 --> 00:34:13.280 you meant when I when I mentioned the Prussian schooling. 634 00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:18.400 So in Prussia, if your if your goal is to 635 00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:22.639 educate everyone and bring them down into a cohesive culture 636 00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:29.559 that works within itself, and that's what the Prussian that's 637 00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:32.639 what the Prussian education system meant to do. But if 638 00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:35.760 you if you transfer that over into the United States, 639 00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:42.559 now you're stripping a multi cultural society and you're saying 640 00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:46.239 everyone has to be one. And obviously some are going 641 00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:48.880 to rebel against that and not and the ones that 642 00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:54.400 don't rebel against it are going to basically lose what 643 00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:58.159 kind of social cohesion they have within their own community. 644 00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.599 No exactly, And that's what I one of the things 645 00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:03.760 that brought to the United States and the Soviet Union together. 646 00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:08.199 I'm talking you know, like the New Deal Stalinist alliance, 647 00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:11.119 like on it's based in geo strategic terms, it doesn't 648 00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:13.639 make a lot of sense. Like I what Lindbergh said 649 00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:17.079 and what Houston Stewart Chamberlain said, they I mean, yeah, 650 00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:20.519 those guys obviously had political and aesthetic preferences for Germany, 651 00:35:21.400 --> 00:35:25.119 but in ragio strategic terms, it doesn't really make sense 652 00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:27.719 for America in the UK to decide they're going to 653 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:32.360 annihilate Germany an alliance with Russia. Like what makes sense 654 00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:35.000 is for you know, Europe, led by Germany, the UK 655 00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:37.679 and the United States, you know, to house do this 656 00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:41.440 kind of ramparts against the East, you know, whether it's China, 657 00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:45.880 whether it's Russia, you know, whatever it is. Okay, that's 658 00:35:46.400 --> 00:35:50.320 there's there's a basic iologic to uh to what developed. 659 00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:54.559 And one of the reasons why that happened was uh 660 00:35:54.639 --> 00:35:57.719 ideological necessity. And the United say from the Soviet Union 661 00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:04.480 when about irrationality of their objectives domestically, uh, there they 662 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:07.079 had similar problems, you know, Stealin's big problem with the 663 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:09.920 nationalities problem, you know, like how do I strip everybody 664 00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:12.559 their ethnic identity and make them into new Soviet Man? 665 00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:16.280 And the New Dealers were like they had the same problem, 666 00:36:16.559 --> 00:36:18.320 you know, like how do you like destroy like the 667 00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:22.440 nationalities in America? You know, And and I mean that 668 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:24.400 this still goes on in the day. Like that's why 669 00:36:24.880 --> 00:36:27.840 in typical fashion, when the regime talks about quote multiculturalism, 670 00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:29.559 they're talking about the opposite. They don't about like the 671 00:36:29.559 --> 00:36:34.840 eradication of all cultures, you know. But that's there's very 672 00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:36.840 few I mean that is now there's not a hell 673 00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:38.719 of a lot of states or organized like the United 674 00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:40.880 States or like the Soviet Union was, Like it's not 675 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:44.679 it's not a natural political mode of organization. So you 676 00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:47.599 can do one or two things there. You know, you 677 00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:51.880 can either you can either you can either rule by 678 00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:55.079 way like kind of evolve federalism, you know, and and 679 00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:59.320 basically leave people alone to manage their own affairs within 680 00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:04.360 their own culture spaces. Or but I mean government never 681 00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:06.559 is wanting to do that, I mean, at least here, 682 00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:11.679 so they're always gonna opt for this idea of of this, 683 00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:16.159 you know, eradicating culture and ripping people out of out 684 00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:19.880 of a historical existence. And both are I mean, that's 685 00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:21.559 one of the things that brought down to Soey Union 686 00:37:21.559 --> 00:37:23.239 and that's all. That's also one of the reasons why 687 00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:27.159 post World War like America does not have moral legitimacy. 688 00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.719 But that was definitely what they wanted to do. And 689 00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:33.800 the but there's well it's gonna sound like a goofy example, 690 00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:36.000 but I'm using it because it pops up again and again. 691 00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:38.440 In the sixties, I read a lot of science fiction 692 00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:40.920 from the era, and science fiction from that era wasn't 693 00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:43.800 just entertainment. There's a lot of think tank guys. I 694 00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:46.400 mean even to the until eighties. And Jerry Pornell, who 695 00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.639 was you know, kind of the Drivings my sdi like 696 00:37:48.679 --> 00:37:51.239 he wrote science fiction and he was when he you know, 697 00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:54.440 incident to his like think tank and policy work and stuff. 698 00:37:54.480 --> 00:37:57.760 But you know, there's that cornyal Star Trek episode where 699 00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:01.000 like Captain Kirk and Spock they go down to this 700 00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:03.119 planet and it's like the Third Reich and they know 701 00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:05.920 how this is possible, like you know what I'm talking about, Yeah, 702 00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:09.159 and then they and then ultimately it's unrabbled, like, oh well, 703 00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:12.480 this guy in like the twenty second century, he created 704 00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:15.719 like from the craft lands on this planet, the primitive humanoids. 705 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:17.440 But there are always a war and he's like, Okay, 706 00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:20.119 well I know I know how to resolve this. So 707 00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.519 we created this like third rich style regime. And then 708 00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:24.920 Kirk like addresses gay audience, like you know, this was 709 00:38:24.920 --> 00:38:27.280 the most efficient government of all time. But you know 710 00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:29.800 they they were they were brutal, racist, so you know, 711 00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:31.840 that's why it didn't work. But the idea was sent 712 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:34.920 in some way noble and that's that's interesting, And that 713 00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:36.840 coup that comes up again and again, not just in 714 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:40.199 like corny science fiction, but in like policy papers, like 715 00:38:40.440 --> 00:38:43.440 we admire the Prussian state because the Germans are great people, 716 00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:46.119 but they're these brutal races. So that's why it didn't work. 717 00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:48.679 But we've got to strapolate that here in some way, 718 00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:52.360 but strip it up of the chauvinistic and like racialized 719 00:38:52.480 --> 00:38:56.400 views and things. People don't think that way directly anymore. 720 00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:58.840 It's spent finats in different ways, but that's like what 721 00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:02.559 underlies it, especially in a place like Chicago, but nationwide, 722 00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:05.559 like a great which these institutions people like, for granted, 723 00:39:05.800 --> 00:39:08.840 are like things taken from the Prussian state. It's crazy, 724 00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:11.519 you know, it really is. You know, the degree that's 725 00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:16.000 not just me, that that that's not just me you know, 726 00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.679 being ah, like a teutonal file or something. I mean, 727 00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:22.119 I'm sure like in part of that too, but it's 728 00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:24.239 just like can't be denied. Like I'm not even saying 729 00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:26.639 it's like a good or bad thing. It's just reality, 730 00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:30.960 you know. And uh that people one time people were 731 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:32.880 way more kind of like directly cognit into that or 732 00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:35.480 at least willing to acknowledge it. Something that's important to consider. 733 00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:38.480 All right, Why did it get back to the book? 734 00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:40.079 Shut everybody? 735 00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:45.119 This is from Imperium Press Reflection by Sorel and from 736 00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:49.039 the forward. I'm gonna read your words and have you 737 00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:55.280 comments on this. It says, rather has already been alluded to. 738 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:02.679 Surrellian violence can best be understood as an absolute, uncompromising 739 00:40:03.159 --> 00:40:10.239 and radical commitment to pure history and blood letting parentheses 740 00:40:10.639 --> 00:40:13.440 one's own in the case of the martyr, and the 741 00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:17.599 enemies in the case of the partisan, and blood letting 742 00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:22.199 is the sanctifying process. And you go on to say, 743 00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:25.840 a partisan unwilling to die or commit homicide is no 744 00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:30.199 more a political soldier or agent of history than would 745 00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:33.639 be a lawgiver who is incapable for reasons of moral 746 00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:37.840 or physical frailty of executing a death warrant issued by 747 00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:41.159 order of the King's bench as an agent of exclusive 748 00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:48.840 sovereign authority. Sorel viewed the modern bourgeoisie as particularly decadent 749 00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:51.840 and harmful, but he did not think the conditions of 750 00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:57.679 his epoch to be otherwise unique. All ruling regimes political 751 00:40:57.719 --> 00:41:01.119 and social develop over time a kind of moral and 752 00:41:01.239 --> 00:41:05.559 intellectual apathy that precludes its worthiness, or at least revokes 753 00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:09.199 its mandate to act in a role of guardianship or 754 00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:13.559 standard bearer over the subject matter of its dominion. This 755 00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:18.000 is not to suggest a Currell shared a secularized eschatological 756 00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:23.239 vision of utopian salvation common to Marxists and progressives, which 757 00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:26.760 posited that the condition of man or the state or 758 00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:33.280 national community was capable of perfection by way of revolutionary processes. Rather, 759 00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:37.079 he and I underline this, he viewed the fervor of 760 00:41:37.199 --> 00:41:43.199 violence as a hygienic mechanism entirely congruent at Congress with 761 00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:46.519 his own rejection of the linear view of history. 762 00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:52.760 Yeah, I mean, that's the best way. It seems were both, 763 00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:56.800 But it's it's hard to convey these things in in 764 00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:59.280 kind of rational terms. But that's yeah, I mean that's 765 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:01.079 the best way to think of to describe it. And 766 00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:05.800 that's I mean, that's so the the degree of which uh, 767 00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:12.360 I mean this also this uh, some of this sorell 768 00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.239 was definitely like in in in direct dialogue with the Maestra. 769 00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:20.599 But some of this again is found in in the 770 00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:26.679 kind of pre Socratic hero epics, like like so I 771 00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:30.760 saw the the Socratic uh what what he used, like 772 00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:35.639 the decadence of the Socratic uh era in Athens. He said, 773 00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:38.719 what you were left with was, you know, instead of this, 774 00:42:38.840 --> 00:42:42.440 instead of this mono class of Yalemen farmers, you know, uh, 775 00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:44.840 the best of whom you know rose to leadership rank 776 00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:49.880 whose use education and system mythology and hero epics, what 777 00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:53.159 you had was they developed this class of professional politicians 778 00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:56.960 who relied upon intellectuals like Socrates to rationalize their rule, 779 00:42:57.280 --> 00:42:59.679 but neither of whom were capable of real action, and 780 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:02.440 both resented each other, and both were afraid of an 781 00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:04.960 hostile to the ya women warriors. So you're love of 782 00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:09.519 this kind of like parallel paralysis where the men who 783 00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:11.639 should be the ones like most capable of direct the 784 00:43:11.679 --> 00:43:14.639 action and violence are declared that you know, this kind 785 00:43:14.639 --> 00:43:17.679 of thing is illegal, linear moral because they're terrified of 786 00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:21.360 their own position being swept aside, and they're on like 787 00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:25.239 you know, lives being threatened by such a process. So 788 00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:28.320 there's this kind of like ongoing paralysis where this just 789 00:43:28.360 --> 00:43:31.199 kind of like meaningless discourse takes the place of action. 790 00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:34.679 And yeah, like I said in the intro that you've 791 00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:38.159 just reiterated, it's not a swelfout. Violence was so great 792 00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:39.960 or like the sexy thing that we all got to 793 00:43:39.960 --> 00:43:43.360 get into. He was saying that, you know, in political terms, 794 00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:45.760 you're not serious unless you know you're willing to implement 795 00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:49.039 your will through violence. And in fact, he took human 796 00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:51.920 life and they're taking out very seriously. And that's one 797 00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:55.280 of the reasons why there's something Sago saying about the 798 00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:58.440 revolutionary process. If you're literally willing to kill people, even 799 00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:02.079 if they're your enemies, maybe especially if you're enemies, like, 800 00:44:02.679 --> 00:44:05.039 that's a very serious thing. You know, it's not something 801 00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:07.360 you do flippantly, and that's certainly not something you deal 802 00:44:07.400 --> 00:44:13.199 with pettigouse agreements. And if you're willing to do that, uh, 803 00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:18.440 there's a sacred aspect to that that commands a certain 804 00:44:18.920 --> 00:44:23.599 reverential observance. I mean, it's it's all of those things. 805 00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:28.519 But that's also why that's also and until things reach 806 00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:33.440 that state, whether it's because you know, the like the 807 00:44:33.719 --> 00:44:36.800 extens system is feeling structurally at such a point that 808 00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:39.800 people find themselves in these just dire circumstances where there's 809 00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:45.320 survivals and jeopardy, or when you're talking about, you know, 810 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.440 a revolutionary circumstance incident to you know, uh, a wire 811 00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:55.920 kind of strategic pairing of warfare. You know what what 812 00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:59.920 necessitates these things is is is a convergence of extreme 813 00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:03.880 conditions and and the human will and the hardening of 814 00:45:03.880 --> 00:45:07.440 the human heart within that will. So like when people 815 00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:10.599 in America, like at present, I mean like likes talk 816 00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:13.159 about it like, oh, Donald Trump is an extremist or oh, 817 00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:16.840 you know, we're we're under siege by by by quote Marxist, 818 00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:20.360 you'll know. You'll know when that's underway, man, because the 819 00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:24.000 bodies being dropped. And thankfully that's not happening because in 820 00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:28.239 the Americans condition and the under present conditions, I don't 821 00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:31.079 I don't think I would lead anything positive, frankly, Okay, 822 00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:35.039 I just don't. That may change, but for now, we 823 00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:37.199 would it would, it would, it would mean a lot 824 00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:39.199 of suffering and a lot of a lot of dead 825 00:45:39.239 --> 00:45:44.719 people being stacked up for no real purpose. But yeah, 826 00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:48.719 that's that's also and also like I don't want to 827 00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:51.239 get too far afield, but this is intrinsic to anything 828 00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:56.840 that European political theorists wrote about really fill the twentieth century, 829 00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:00.360 this idea, this kind of rollsy and live capital liberal 830 00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:02.599 idea that people have in America kind of like on 831 00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:05.639 all sides of the political are both sides of the 832 00:46:05.639 --> 00:46:09.199 political spectrum of like, oh, politics are just this rational 833 00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:12.239 process that people decided to create and implement. Like no 834 00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:15.639 Europeans thought that way. Politics is mysterious and like the 835 00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:22.079 zene of the political occurrences is warfare, and you know, politics, 836 00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:25.519 like warfare itself is its origin is mysterious. We don't 837 00:46:25.519 --> 00:46:27.599 really know why things are ordered this way. You know, 838 00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:30.039 even if you don't believe in God, there's there's some 839 00:46:30.159 --> 00:46:32.639 kind of they're they're there, there's some kind of design. 840 00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:35.679 Even even even if it just man acting out, you know, 841 00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:40.400 is is programming like as in as in an ant 842 00:46:40.480 --> 00:46:43.760 colony would that's very mysterious and strange. We don't know 843 00:46:43.800 --> 00:46:46.840 why that happens, you know, So all you can really 844 00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:50.519 do is you're truly, like in quite liberal terms, like 845 00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:54.199 writing the peribial Tiger to try and manage, you know, 846 00:46:54.679 --> 00:46:59.039 political occurrences and in violence, they're in chooses us. We 847 00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:03.960 don't really choose it. So there's an inherent uh kind 848 00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:08.719 of providential uh, there's not an identificasion of providential things 849 00:47:08.719 --> 00:47:13.519 and phenomenon within the European mind. Conceptually said that that's 850 00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:16.800 important to keep in mind. Like this really jumps out 851 00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:19.719 at me, I think, because I mean, I'm very much 852 00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.719 like a God centric person. I'm a Bible Protestant, but 853 00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:26.880 I'm like an old stock American, so like I'm inundated 854 00:47:26.920 --> 00:47:30.440 with uh with uh with with kind of like American 855 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:33.800 viewpoints and things, you know. And I always was even 856 00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:36.280 guys like Russell Kirk, you know, who was a Catholic, 857 00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:40.039 but he was kind of the quintessential like American like 858 00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:43.360 twentieth century political historian. Like even he like falls into 859 00:47:43.360 --> 00:47:45.800 this kind of trap of of kind of like Ralls 860 00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:50.239 in and and and Hobbisian ontology about man kind of 861 00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:53.199 like rationally choosing to like organize politics this way in 862 00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:56.639 that nonsense. And then maybe as a topic for another episode, 863 00:47:56.719 --> 00:47:57.559 but Yeah. 864 00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:02.079 I like that you mentioned and how Europeans view politics 865 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:07.480 versus Americans, especially back then, because and then earlier you 866 00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:12.039 had mentioned how you know, people read Spengler and he 867 00:48:12.280 --> 00:48:18.239 seem it seems esoteric. Because I recommended Imperium to somebody 868 00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:21.840 and they started reading it and they're like this, does 869 00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:24.719 it stay this esoteric? And then that's when you realize 870 00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:28.679 it's like, well, politics isn't one thing we've been we've 871 00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:31.440 been convinced, we've been taught in this country that politics 872 00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:34.679 is just one thing, or it's it's it's this side 873 00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:38.199 against this side, and no, politics has a very spiritual 874 00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:40.119 side to it. That's why I think a lot of people, 875 00:48:40.440 --> 00:48:44.239 especially people who are Biblical, when they read Imperium and 876 00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:47.199 they read part one, they're completely blown away because they've 877 00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:49.039 never read politics like that before. 878 00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:51.840 That's a good point. Yeah, And Imperium's a really well 879 00:48:51.840 --> 00:48:54.840 written book. It's not just because I like Francis Yacky 880 00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:56.760 a lot. I mean, even before I even knew any 881 00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:58.840 about frand of Yacky, like his book will always pop 882 00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:03.000 up on AhR uh you know, I uhr newsletters and 883 00:49:03.159 --> 00:49:06.320 what was Cardo obviously would always plug it and I 884 00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:08.079 got it there's a there was a used bookstore in 885 00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:12.840 Evanston and like Noontime Press at that time, which was 886 00:49:12.840 --> 00:49:16.159 Willis Carter's outfit, like they weren't currently stocking it. So 887 00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:18.840 this was like in nineteen ninety seven or so. Like 888 00:49:18.920 --> 00:49:21.519 I I I had this. I just I just used 889 00:49:21.559 --> 00:49:23.679 bookstore in Emiston like order meal like an old hard 890 00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:25.639 copy of Imperium, and then I like took it home 891 00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:28.920 and read it, and uh, I was like, wow, this 892 00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:31.480 is really intense stuff and it's really insightful. So I 893 00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:33.639 mean I came to Yacky by reading his book and 894 00:49:33.679 --> 00:49:38.079 realizing like this is this isn't this is incredibly you know, 895 00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:42.440 highly developed and serious stuff. And yeah, I said, it's 896 00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:46.119 just really well written. Some of Yacki's language at the 897 00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:49.079 time seems overwrought because uh, you know, he was a 898 00:49:49.079 --> 00:49:50.519 little he was he was he was he was a 899 00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:53.360 he was a litigation attorney, and I mean that kind 900 00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:56.679 of comes out, but uh, that's all. That's also as 901 00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:58.239 part of like the time though, like in the early 902 00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:00.840 like really until like the nineteen fifties, that's just kind 903 00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:02.559 of like the way people wrote, even kind of square 904 00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:05.519 people just like you know, writing on behalf of some 905 00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:09.039 kind of like even somebody like writing like a like 906 00:50:09.079 --> 00:50:10.800 an op ed on behalf of like eyes and how 907 00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:13.159 we're in like the early fifties, like what it would 908 00:50:13.159 --> 00:50:15.400 seem kind of like overwrought to us properly, like but 909 00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:18.440 at the language I need. But but yeah, that's some 910 00:50:20.039 --> 00:50:22.239 you know, it's a it's a it's a serious book 911 00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:25.760 like whether you know, even if you even if you're 912 00:50:25.800 --> 00:50:29.920 basically kind of hostle to fishism or you know, postfishes ideas, 913 00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:32.280 and even if you're not you know, any kind of 914 00:50:33.440 --> 00:50:35.719 any kind of Germanic phile. I mean, you can't like 915 00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:38.559 like the people claim like imperiums like mystical garbage, like 916 00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:40.320 none of them I've actually read the book. I know. 917 00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:41.719 It's like I've engaged them, like, well, what do you 918 00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:44.639 object to specifically? Like they can't tell you. There's like repeating, 919 00:50:45.079 --> 00:50:48.039 there's like repeating some nonsense they like read online or 920 00:50:48.199 --> 00:50:51.519 they're just you know, it's just like some conceit they 921 00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:54.039 have that I guarantee you they have not actually read it. 922 00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:59.320 I'm so great. Maybe them like a bookworm, I've actually read, 923 00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:03.159 like I I've read Martian Angles for twenty years, Like 924 00:51:03.159 --> 00:51:06.360 when I I don't only sound off about a body 925 00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:09.000 of political theory that I haven't read, and you'll notice 926 00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:10.440 like when you're raising them and read it till you're 927 00:51:10.480 --> 00:51:12.639 right off, Like I haven't read that, but I don't 928 00:51:12.760 --> 00:51:17.559 most people. Most people don't sit around like you know, 929 00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:21.960 reading dos Capital. Most people don't sit down and read 930 00:51:22.079 --> 00:51:26.440 like all six hundred pages of Imperial They just don't. 931 00:51:26.840 --> 00:51:28.639 Owing to the fact that everybody's got to live their 932 00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.360 life doing what they gotta do. I'm lucky to have 933 00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:32.639 the time to like read this kind of shit. But 934 00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:34.800 it's also I mean people that I don't think people 935 00:51:34.800 --> 00:51:37.760 with the attention span anymore, like even smart guys like I. 936 00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:40.519 One of the things I learned to do in law school. 937 00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:43.639 If if I drive anything of value, that experience is 938 00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:45.679 like I can sit down for like nine hours and 939 00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:48.039 like power through like pays and pays and pays a 940 00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:51.199 dense text. There's things that what's rather do than that? 941 00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:53.639 But I can do it and like it doesn't you know, 942 00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:56.480 it doesn't like it's not like torture to me. So yeah. 943 00:51:57.519 --> 00:52:01.920 The part of the forward is under the title modernist 944 00:52:01.960 --> 00:52:07.039 violence and service of Ancient Virtues and something that I 945 00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:11.800 A couple sections I gonna pick out here. He viewed 946 00:52:11.800 --> 00:52:15.599 the organization, management, and economics of the homestead, and the 947 00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:20.360 cultural values intrinsic to this enterprise as being inextricably linked 948 00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:25.480 to and mutually reinforcing of military competence and endeavors, and 949 00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:30.760 the waging of war itself. Moving down, he further views 950 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:34.000 the Yeoman Homestead as a school of command. A man 951 00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:37.440 must role his wife and children firmly, but also caringly 952 00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:41.000 and justly. He must also demonstrate his worthiness to wield 953 00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:44.360 his authority. A man's wife and children are obliged to 954 00:52:44.559 --> 00:52:48.840 obey his commands, but only insofar as his command's command 955 00:52:48.920 --> 00:52:53.360 role is tempered by correct virtues and practical reason. Do 956 00:52:53.440 --> 00:52:56.400 you think that is why the founding of this country 957 00:52:57.000 --> 00:53:00.400 actually worked in the beginning, In the beginning. 958 00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:03.159 Yeah, and then like I said, it calls back to 959 00:53:03.159 --> 00:53:07.880 tom If you read uh, if if you read what 960 00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:10.880 these Confederate like mental letters were writing about, I mean 961 00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:13.480 that that's what that was their mythology. They were calling upon. 962 00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:17.760 They're they were calling upon Athens. Okay, I mean like later, 963 00:53:18.280 --> 00:53:21.400 you know, you read everything from Walker Percy to UH 964 00:53:21.800 --> 00:53:24.960 to Michael Sharah, you know, guy with the killer angels, 965 00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:27.960 you know, they they vote like our Thorian legend and stuff. 966 00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:30.760 But I mean really the way the southerns thought of themselves, 967 00:53:30.840 --> 00:53:33.679 it was like that, you know, and and that's why, 968 00:53:33.920 --> 00:53:35.519 like you know, in terms of like place names and 969 00:53:35.519 --> 00:53:38.360 everything else, you know, like Athenian references you know, were 970 00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:40.599 ubiquitous and the anti belle themself and to some degree 971 00:53:40.719 --> 00:53:43.440 that still are in themself. And yeah, that's the way 972 00:53:43.440 --> 00:53:46.440 they viewed it because again, the South was not the 973 00:53:46.480 --> 00:53:49.039 South was not the Habsburg Empire. It was it was 974 00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:50.960 it was, it was it was a ye woman reed 975 00:53:52.119 --> 00:53:54.920 who viewed themselves as kind of like a monocast, you know, 976 00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:57.639 like that's why. And I mean part of that was 977 00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:02.159 possible because like, uh, slave was racialized, you know like that. 978 00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:05.719 But so I mean you dated somebody's like a monocast, 979 00:54:05.880 --> 00:54:09.119 like even even like a poor even like a poor 980 00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:11.679 like white like tenant farmer and like a lord in 981 00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:14.679 the manor like they had some kind of political interest 982 00:54:14.760 --> 00:54:17.440 in common, like cont for the slaves. Now I know that, 983 00:54:17.559 --> 00:54:20.039 Like I know, people like Howard Vinn would be like, oh, 984 00:54:20.119 --> 00:54:23.079 that's because they were just educated and you know, racial prejudice, 985 00:54:23.159 --> 00:54:25.119 like that's not the case, like they're at people do 986 00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:30.280 obviously identify in communitarian terms, like along racial and cultural lines, 987 00:54:30.599 --> 00:54:35.320 and that's only possible. Then that's really only possible if 988 00:54:35.360 --> 00:54:37.679 there is like an US and them like paradigm. That's 989 00:54:37.719 --> 00:54:39.320 not good or bad, it's just the way it is. 990 00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:43.440 And yeah, that's if you and then North it was 991 00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.199 a little bit different. But at the same time too, 992 00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:50.119 like I said, even you know, the uh, the the 993 00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:53.119 old right what was called old right in the twentieth century, 994 00:54:53.199 --> 00:54:57.119 you know America first and Robert Taft and stuff that 995 00:54:57.159 --> 00:55:00.559 those guys were. Those guys were Hamiltonian Republic. They were 996 00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:03.880 like northern city slickers. But at the same time, you know, 997 00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:08.280 they they viewed, uh, they viewed got the American ideal. 998 00:55:08.760 --> 00:55:11.199 You know, it's like the small businessman, like our version 999 00:55:11.239 --> 00:55:14.320 of the Kulak, you know, like they so that I'm 1000 00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:17.360 maintaining this not just a Confederate conceit that is truly 1001 00:55:17.400 --> 00:55:20.239 like the old American ethos. And yeah it's got no, 1002 00:55:21.159 --> 00:55:23.760 it's got nothing. Uh you know, there is no Caesar 1003 00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:26.639 in that equation. Okay, so it's you know, it's not 1004 00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:29.119 there's no Caesar and there's not even a King Arthur, 1005 00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:33.480 you know, there's a the the ideal like like the 1006 00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:36.719 American hero, he's an archetype. He's not he's not a 1007 00:55:36.800 --> 00:55:38.800 king or he's not like a man in a certain 1008 00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:41.679 in a certain official role. So yeah, I think I 1009 00:55:41.679 --> 00:55:44.079 think that's fundamentally important. And I mean that's the way 1010 00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:46.960 I think, like not even consciously, like I you know, 1011 00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:49.559 that's why I think some of these like trad guys 1012 00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:51.239 in the internet are wro. It's like I'm not talking 1013 00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:53.800 about like like actual like Russian guys. I'm not talking 1014 00:55:53.800 --> 00:55:57.639 about you know some of these, uh, some of these 1015 00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:00.639 Moslim guys who who are by that world I thought, 1016 00:56:00.639 --> 00:56:02.880 I know, like guys from Terry Hood, Indiana, but like 1017 00:56:02.920 --> 00:56:06.360 decide that they're like trade Catholics or something. It's like, bro, 1018 00:56:06.519 --> 00:56:07.760 like what you want you want to? Like you know, 1019 00:56:07.760 --> 00:56:09.719 you wanna you want to you want to you want 1020 00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:11.519 to want to pretend it's you know, we got a 1021 00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:13.440 king here or something, or you want to pretend you're 1022 00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:15.400 in the court of Caesar, Like why the fun would 1023 00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:17.320 you want to do that? And plus I mean it's 1024 00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:19.679 not like our heritage anyway, you know, Like that doesn't 1025 00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:20.760 that doesn't work. 1026 00:56:22.320 --> 00:56:24.000 People hate to hear this, but I mean we're a 1027 00:56:24.039 --> 00:56:26.320 Protestant country. 1028 00:56:26.800 --> 00:56:29.880 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean I agree with you, 1029 00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:32.840 Michael Joneses, like if you are like, you know, culturally Catholic. 1030 00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:36.800 I mean Jones is right, like America it wasn't as 1031 00:56:36.840 --> 00:56:39.280 a massively anti Catholic country. And I don't think that's 1032 00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:42.760 a good thing because I'm not a bigot, but that 1033 00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:47.440 this idea you can like saw reconcile Americanism with Roman 1034 00:56:47.480 --> 00:56:50.000 Catholicism and just make the Pope some kind of like 1035 00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:53.039 first deacon or some kind of like you know, or 1036 00:56:53.039 --> 00:56:56.440 some kind of like equivalent of Billy Graham. Like that 1037 00:56:56.440 --> 00:57:00.119 that's ridiculous, like that, that's that's not Catholicism. Then you know, 1038 00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:02.280 you're just like some guy like like go with the 1039 00:57:02.280 --> 00:57:06.719 math occasionally and you know, uh, Christmas Eve at midnight, 1040 00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:10.400 you know, goes like a local perish. But that Catholic 1041 00:57:10.519 --> 00:57:13.480 is a man's actual implications for politics and authority, and 1042 00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:15.840 like the pope is either that the pope's either the 1043 00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:18.719 Emperor of Europe in absolute terms or he's not. You know, 1044 00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:21.639 I mean he's not he's not Billy Graham, He's not this, 1045 00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:23.800 he's not this deacon. In a weird hat who like 1046 00:57:23.840 --> 00:57:25.320 we all kind of listen to when we want to, 1047 00:57:25.960 --> 00:57:28.239 you know, like he he has either God's emissary on 1048 00:57:28.239 --> 00:57:30.960 earth or he's not. You know, eat my fight. I'm 1049 00:57:31.000 --> 00:57:33.960 not a Catholic, but if you are, you can't. You 1050 00:57:33.960 --> 00:57:35.960 can't be a Catholic and then decide to like you're 1051 00:57:35.960 --> 00:57:38.360 going to like pretend Joe Biden as the president, you know, like. 1052 00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:43.159 I wanted to. I wanted to read this one section 1053 00:57:43.400 --> 00:57:48.679 under anti modern modernism. He says, uh Sorel shared with 1054 00:57:48.760 --> 00:57:53.159 Pradon and Hobbes a pessimistic view of nature. This is 1055 00:57:53.199 --> 00:57:56.440 one facet of Sorellian thought that fundamentally alters the way 1056 00:57:56.480 --> 00:58:00.239 in which Sorel's relationship to socialism is to be understood. 1057 00:58:00.880 --> 00:58:04.519 Cyrel viewed man as basically mired in sin and driven 1058 00:58:04.599 --> 00:58:07.760 by his own avarice and egoism and desire for his 1059 00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:11.639 own gain. This tendency, in the Cirellian view, and this 1060 00:58:11.679 --> 00:58:15.559 is the part I underlined, is only overcome by submission 1061 00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:21.320 to sovereign authority customary as well as formal in ordinary conditions, 1062 00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:27.400 and when necessary, by immersion in collectively dynamic and violent efforts, 1063 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:37.199 often themselves both revolutionary and restorative in character. Sorel's commitment 1064 00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:42.239 to socialism must be understood within this context that socialism, 1065 00:58:42.320 --> 00:58:47.320 for better or worse, was considered a historic inevitability in 1066 00:58:47.360 --> 00:58:50.519 structural terms, and if nothing else, it was at least 1067 00:58:50.559 --> 00:58:53.840 grudgingly stipulated, even by many of its staunchest critics on 1068 00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:56.960 the European right, that at least some concessions to the 1069 00:58:57.000 --> 00:59:00.599 popular demands of socialist parties would need to be made 1070 00:59:00.679 --> 00:59:04.760 for any future government to enjoy the legitimacy it required 1071 00:59:04.800 --> 00:59:06.079 to effectively rules. 1072 00:59:07.559 --> 00:59:10.559 Yeah, and that's why, and that's how, and that explains 1073 00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:14.320 the ascendency of of of of the NSDAP and Adolf Hitler. 1074 00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:16.360 I mean, Hitler was always more popular than the party, 1075 00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:22.679 but eventually, you know, Hindenburg, U Hindenburg personally disliked Hitler, 1076 00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:24.800 and I think him, I think Hindenburg personally disliked the 1077 00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:28.400 National Socialists. But you know, again, it was the Stalhelm 1078 00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:32.360 wasn't going anywhere for that for that reason that uh 1079 00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:35.920 Currell outlined and that I just kind of like explicated 1080 00:59:36.000 --> 00:59:43.000 in plain English, the uh you know this, there's I 1081 00:59:43.280 --> 00:59:46.840 realized that you know, in from the twentieth century onward, 1082 00:59:47.039 --> 00:59:49.760 especially with the advident visual media as well as you know, 1083 00:59:49.800 --> 00:59:55.000 the concentration of power in in key loci and the 1084 00:59:55.039 --> 00:59:59.239 ability of of consolidated governments to you know, to kind 1085 00:59:59.239 --> 01:00:02.440 of dictate policy. You know, there's there's a power to 1086 01:00:02.519 --> 01:00:04.960 kind of create a conceptual horizon, you know, like the 1087 01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:08.440 media like in the in the Oliver Stone movie Natural 1088 01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:11.159 learn Killers. You know, like what he Harrelton says. He says, 1089 01:00:11.159 --> 01:00:13.440 the reporter like media is like whether but it's man 1090 01:00:13.480 --> 01:00:17.239 made whether like that that's actually really poignant, Okay, And 1091 01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:20.559 like I stipulate that that's very true. At the same time, 1092 01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:23.360 you can't just generate some kind of like revolutionary tendency 1093 01:00:23.559 --> 01:00:25.639 out of the air or and he can't just quash 1094 01:00:25.719 --> 01:00:29.079 one that's emergent. So this idea that you know, I mean, 1095 01:00:29.199 --> 01:00:31.400 I think Annolf Hiller believed everything he said, for better 1096 01:00:31.480 --> 01:00:33.559 or worse, whether you think Hitler was great or what anything. 1097 01:00:33.559 --> 01:00:35.480 He was evil, Like he wasn't a liar, and he 1098 01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:38.119 wasn't he wasn't a politician in the conventional sense, Like 1099 01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:41.079 he believed everything he said. He didn't take on like 1100 01:00:41.119 --> 01:00:46.159 a socialist program like like Thaloman claimed and the KVD claim, 1101 01:00:46.480 --> 01:00:49.119 you know, just for cynical reasons, like he believed in it, 1102 01:00:49.480 --> 01:00:52.440 Like even if you didn't, like, yeah, it was the 1103 01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:54.440 reality was that. 1104 01:00:53.960 --> 01:00:55.840 He might be wrong, but he never lied. 1105 01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:59.519 Yeah, and the and the Vimart voter, the Vymar voter. 1106 01:00:59.599 --> 01:01:02.280 At a social sensibility, like you could say that that 1107 01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:05.920 was bad or that you didn't accept that. It's like well, okay, 1108 01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:08.079 but then you're not in the game, you know, So 1109 01:01:08.920 --> 01:01:11.280 there's no there's no way to kind of like reactionary 1110 01:01:11.320 --> 01:01:14.920 party or or some kind of like kaiser Reich Ramancist 1111 01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:18.119 party like what would have gone anywhere in Germany, Like 1112 01:01:18.119 --> 01:01:21.679 you just wouldn't add, you know. And and like I said, 1113 01:01:21.719 --> 01:01:23.519 that wasn't just that was that wasn't just like the 1114 01:01:23.559 --> 01:01:25.639 fervor of like you know, the kind of red wave 1115 01:01:26.559 --> 01:01:31.199 after nineteen twenty one twenty two. It was that was 1116 01:01:31.239 --> 01:01:34.519 like deeply insinuated into like the German consciousns you know, 1117 01:01:34.679 --> 01:01:37.079 like the uh this idea you know, like like we 1118 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:39.280 talked about that at the at the top of the hour, 1119 01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:44.559 like the the you know, uh, socialism as we know 1120 01:01:44.639 --> 01:01:48.280 it especially you know, came from it came from Prussia 1121 01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:53.400 and and came from uh that that state of organization 1122 01:01:53.800 --> 01:01:58.679 with yourself was derived from this desire and this fundamental 1123 01:01:58.719 --> 01:02:01.440 imperative to kind of repair the social fabric that it 1124 01:02:01.519 --> 01:02:07.000 ceased to exist after you know, the medieval era disappeared 1125 01:02:07.000 --> 01:02:10.679 into into historical time. I gotta raise up in a minute, though, 1126 01:02:10.719 --> 01:02:13.000 So let's we can we can go part two on 1127 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:16.760 this if you want. But yeah, yeah, there's anything else 1128 01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:19.000 you want to hit, just real quick though, in terms 1129 01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:20.960 of key points, So let's take those up now. 1130 01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:25.360 Okay, let's just do one one last question. Yeah, do 1131 01:02:25.400 --> 01:02:27.960 you think America has ever had a right wing and 1132 01:02:28.000 --> 01:02:31.079 if they did, when did it disappear? Do they have 1133 01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:31.639 a right wing? 1134 01:02:31.719 --> 01:02:34.760 Now? Yeah, I'm gonna deal with the first part of 1135 01:02:34.760 --> 01:02:37.960 the question. First, the War between the States, there was 1136 01:02:38.119 --> 01:02:40.679 there was something of a there was not conventionally right 1137 01:02:40.760 --> 01:02:44.679 left paradigm to that, but it was the precursor of it. Okay. 1138 01:02:45.119 --> 01:02:48.599 I mean there was guys in the North who were 1139 01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:52.239 who were kind of nullifiers, who didn't really want to 1140 01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:54.000 you know, in there, who were the free soilers. They 1141 01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:55.800 didn't really want a part of the war between the States, 1142 01:02:56.119 --> 01:03:00.239 but they were highly racially conscious and highly anti government. Uh. 1143 01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:03.519 But if you're talking about the actual partisans, you know, 1144 01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:05.440 like the kind of like kind of the true like 1145 01:03:05.559 --> 01:03:08.280 rebels in the South and uh, and you were talking 1146 01:03:08.320 --> 01:03:11.159 about the fire years in the North, you like, and 1147 01:03:11.159 --> 01:03:15.599 and the the like the radical abolitionists, like there was 1148 01:03:15.960 --> 01:03:18.000 there was something of a precursor to like right left 1149 01:03:18.000 --> 01:03:23.639 divide in America. It's an imperfect analogy, but there's that later. 1150 01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:28.599 I agree with basically when Patty Cannon wrote in the 1151 01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:33.320 eighties and nineties about the old right being you know, 1152 01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:38.079 the the Hamiltonian uh, Robert Taft right, the America first right, 1153 01:03:38.920 --> 01:03:42.599 that was that that was the emergent American right in 1154 01:03:42.679 --> 01:03:47.360 modern terms, okay. And uh, you know in the in 1155 01:03:47.400 --> 01:03:50.800 the in the you know, in the in the twentieth century, 1156 01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:52.800 the words win the state wasn't ancient history. It was 1157 01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:55.840 less than one hundred years in the past. Okay. So 1158 01:03:55.920 --> 01:03:59.559 I mean the like America is like a consolidated uh 1159 01:03:59.840 --> 01:04:03.039 national union was was a pretty new thing. So there's 1160 01:04:03.079 --> 01:04:08.599 that too. The I believe, Uh, I'm always making the 1161 01:04:08.639 --> 01:04:11.920 point that you know, the Nuremberg system replacing the Westphalian 1162 01:04:12.039 --> 01:04:15.800 system that had not just profound implications for international order 1163 01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:19.679 and more in peace and and and and the conceptual 1164 01:04:19.760 --> 01:04:24.360 horizon of of of of heads of state. But it 1165 01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:27.440 also uh, it made it made the political right quite 1166 01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:30.280 literally illeal because that that that was part that was 1167 01:04:30.559 --> 01:04:32.679 that was half of the reason for holding the Nuremberg 1168 01:04:32.719 --> 01:04:36.760 proceedings in the first place, is to say that you know, okay, 1169 01:04:36.960 --> 01:04:39.840 like you know, the Allies were on the side of 1170 01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:43.719 of providence and history and opposition to that which is 1171 01:04:43.760 --> 01:04:46.519 the right wing. You know, this is a criminal conspiracy 1172 01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:50.360 of racist murders, you know, and and and obviously you know, 1173 01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:53.880 no no rational actors such as you know, the Marxist 1174 01:04:53.920 --> 01:04:56.880 Leninists in Moscow and the New Dealers in Washington whatever 1175 01:04:56.920 --> 01:04:59.679 started war. So wars were only started, you know, by 1176 01:04:59.719 --> 01:05:03.960 the trigus and and conspiracies of of breakings and criminals 1177 01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:06.639 and races. And that's what the right wing is, you know. 1178 01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:09.239 So where it's it's it's illegal to hold these views 1179 01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:14.039 because they result in genocide and warfare. That's why after 1180 01:05:15.119 --> 01:05:17.280 that's why there was no like Hewing Long or Robert 1181 01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:23.559 Taft after nineteen forty nine or forty eight forty nine, okay, like, uh, 1182 01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:27.599 you the closest thing was a guy like Joe McCarthy. 1183 01:05:27.719 --> 01:05:30.599 But obviously you know, there were there were the uh, 1184 01:05:30.960 --> 01:05:34.199 the deep State closed ranks to wipe him out. And 1185 01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:36.920 I'm that said McCarthy was like a great guy. I mean, 1186 01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:38.480 I'm not saying morally. I mean, I don't think he was. 1187 01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:39.840 I think it was kind of a bumpkin. I don't 1188 01:05:39.880 --> 01:05:42.079 think he was a great figure hit And I've got 1189 01:05:42.079 --> 01:05:44.960 my own issues with him. But certainly the name was 1190 01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:48.679 Roy Cohne didn't do any favors, but the for all 1191 01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:51.519 kinds of reasons, but that are called wars series. But 1192 01:05:51.599 --> 01:05:55.000 the but that was that was basically the American right 1193 01:05:55.039 --> 01:05:57.000 as it was as it was Acipha and you know, 1194 01:05:57.119 --> 01:06:01.760 hewing long Robert Taft Wallace was a resurgence of that, 1195 01:06:02.559 --> 01:06:04.960 you know, And and of course Nixon took on the 1196 01:06:05.000 --> 01:06:09.239 Wallace Coalition, which became the Reagan Coalition, which became MEGA. 1197 01:06:10.159 --> 01:06:13.360 That's right wing in the American sense. I mean, I 1198 01:06:13.360 --> 01:06:16.920 I think it's somewhat of a protest movement. But at 1199 01:06:16.920 --> 01:06:20.000 the if those people had better leadership, and if they 1200 01:06:20.039 --> 01:06:23.440 had UH and if they had a stronger intellectual foundation, 1201 01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:28.840 I think they'd very much like identify with Taffian principles, 1202 01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:32.119 like actual America First principles. So yeah, I mean I 1203 01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:36.679 think I think that's basically genuine. I I think there's 1204 01:06:36.679 --> 01:06:39.840 a lot of silly stuff like within I mean, if 1205 01:06:39.840 --> 01:06:41.639 we can still consider like MEGA to be a movement 1206 01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:44.000 like the you know, the I was on the ground 1207 01:06:44.039 --> 01:06:46.639 in January sixth, And I'm not saying that to sound 1208 01:06:46.719 --> 01:06:49.840 like I mean like figure that one killer and not 1209 01:06:49.880 --> 01:06:52.039 trying to come off like Rodoni Junior's characters that you know, 1210 01:06:52.199 --> 01:06:54.199 like I was there when the ship went down at Gretade. 1211 01:06:54.480 --> 01:06:58.400 I was there. I'm not trying to come off like that, 1212 01:06:58.639 --> 01:07:00.719 but like I raised that a lot because like people 1213 01:07:00.800 --> 01:07:03.679 say all kinds of crazy stuff about January sixth, and 1214 01:07:03.800 --> 01:07:05.679 like when I tell them like they're wrong, and it well, 1215 01:07:05.679 --> 01:07:07.280 how do you know? It's like, well because I was there, 1216 01:07:07.400 --> 01:07:13.039 fucker like that's how But and and those people were gutsy. 1217 01:07:13.159 --> 01:07:15.280 I think a lot of them for like turning out 1218 01:07:15.400 --> 01:07:19.559 in depth, you know, to exhibit their discontent, which was 1219 01:07:19.679 --> 01:07:21.719 entirely well placed. But there's also just like a lot 1220 01:07:21.719 --> 01:07:24.159 of like fucking real goofs man and like guys doing 1221 01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:27.840 dumb shit, you know, like like that freaking weirdo like 1222 01:07:27.880 --> 01:07:30.480 OU painting himself up like brave heart, like running around 1223 01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:32.480 like like an idiot, like I saw a lot of 1224 01:07:32.480 --> 01:07:35.599 like that kind of shit and there's like goofy stuff 1225 01:07:35.639 --> 01:07:37.920 like that that you know, like on the MAGA, right, 1226 01:07:39.639 --> 01:07:41.280 So I mean there's like more than like a seed 1227 01:07:41.280 --> 01:07:44.719 of potential and they are in some real way like 1228 01:07:44.760 --> 01:07:48.880 the airrors to like you know, the Taff Hamiltonian and 1229 01:07:48.960 --> 01:07:54.119 later like the you know, the Wallace Nixon Reagan uh coalition. 1230 01:07:54.920 --> 01:07:58.360 But it's problematic because like America is problematic in terms 1231 01:07:58.360 --> 01:08:00.280 of how colitics break down. I mean, that's my view 1232 01:08:00.280 --> 01:08:02.599 of it. I'm not I'm not saying bad I'm not 1233 01:08:02.639 --> 01:08:04.960 trashing mega people like I mean most of my friends 1234 01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:08.039 are are constitute or people like that. You know, I'm not. 1235 01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:10.039 I'm not some snob. I mean how can I be. 1236 01:08:11.199 --> 01:08:12.559 So I don't want people to think I'm like saying 1237 01:08:12.639 --> 01:08:16.279 new things about them but them. But yeah, uh that's 1238 01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:18.560 my view at a glance. 1239 01:08:19.399 --> 01:08:21.439 And you need to get out of here. Do you 1240 01:08:21.520 --> 01:08:22.920 plugs real quick and we'll do that. 1241 01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:27.600 Yeah, thank you, Pete. You can find me on Twitter 1242 01:08:27.800 --> 01:08:31.640 at Chris Kelly and jahad Uh. The T is a 1243 01:08:31.720 --> 01:08:33.600 number seven. But if if I think, if you serve 1244 01:08:33.680 --> 01:08:38.600 for Thomas seven seven seven, I come up. I I 1245 01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:42.520 got kicked off at t rand for criticizing uh, mister Zolensky, 1246 01:08:42.560 --> 01:08:44.640 which is interesting. On t gram there's guys that literally 1247 01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:48.279 post like really gross like pornography and like pictures of 1248 01:08:48.359 --> 01:08:51.079 dead people, like really awful stuff. I don't sounds like 1249 01:08:51.119 --> 01:08:53.760 some fucking shrinking violet, but I mean I find that 1250 01:08:53.800 --> 01:08:55.920 kind of stuff upset it, you know, and like I 1251 01:08:56.239 --> 01:08:58.800 but so that's okay, but like you trash like Lensky, 1252 01:08:58.960 --> 01:09:02.319 like you get like moved. So I mean, hey, it's 1253 01:09:02.359 --> 01:09:04.199 it's neither here or there. We don't need t gramm 1254 01:09:04.239 --> 01:09:09.039 anymore because the centenship regime is is has been broken 1255 01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:11.439 in some way, like enough at least that we can 1256 01:09:11.439 --> 01:09:13.760 get our message out. But so I'm not on t 1257 01:09:13.880 --> 01:09:18.079 gram anymore. But in my substack it's real Thomas seven 1258 01:09:18.159 --> 01:09:21.159 seven seven dot substack dot com. There's a chat in there, 1259 01:09:21.680 --> 01:09:23.720 and if you're a subscriber, like you don't need to pay, 1260 01:09:23.800 --> 01:09:26.159 but you do need to subscribe to access to chat. 1261 01:09:26.399 --> 01:09:29.399 And like that's like where we've been congregating. And you 1262 01:09:29.439 --> 01:09:31.439 can always like hit me up on email if you 1263 01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:33.720 want to talk to me direct. It might take me 1264 01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:35.880 a week or two to reply, just because I get 1265 01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:39.319 a lot of email It's zartex z E r t 1266 01:09:39.439 --> 01:09:44.439 A X seven seven seven at ProtonMail dot com. And yeah, 1267 01:09:44.520 --> 01:09:45.439 that's that's all I got. 1268 01:09:46.119 --> 01:09:47.800 Well, I appreciate your time. Thanks a lot. 1269 01:09:47.840 --> 01:09:49.960 Man. Likewise, man, this is great. Thank you. 1270 01:09:51.239 --> 01:09:55.960 When back to the Pegin Show, returning for part two 1271 01:09:56.960 --> 01:10:00.520 on George Sorell, it's Thomas seven seven seven. How are 1272 01:10:00.520 --> 01:10:01.000 you done, sir? 1273 01:10:01.680 --> 01:10:05.039 I'm very well, thanks man, And all I got indicated 1274 01:10:05.039 --> 01:10:10.159 before we went live. There's been an overwhelmingly positive response 1275 01:10:10.560 --> 01:10:14.520 to covering Sorel and then our first episode on Sorell. 1276 01:10:14.560 --> 01:10:18.079 I mean, and that's that's fantastic, Not because it gives 1277 01:10:18.119 --> 01:10:20.640 my ego a boost, although frankly it kind of does, 1278 01:10:20.720 --> 01:10:23.960 and I'm not ashamed to say that, but the fact 1279 01:10:24.000 --> 01:10:27.640 that people are engaging with Sorel in a meaningful way 1280 01:10:27.720 --> 01:10:33.359 is great. It's essential to understanding the twentieth century and 1281 01:10:33.399 --> 01:10:37.960 the trajectory of the political right and and how European 1282 01:10:38.760 --> 01:10:43.479 the political culture developed in fundamental ways, and you know, 1283 01:10:44.119 --> 01:10:45.960 more and more of what we do. I mean, it's 1284 01:10:45.960 --> 01:10:48.880 important to educate our people in our faction, as it 1285 01:10:48.960 --> 01:10:52.760 were anyway, But you know, mein Shamagademia just is not 1286 01:10:52.880 --> 01:10:56.039 taking these things up. The exception is guys like Paul Gotfried, 1287 01:10:56.319 --> 01:10:58.199 but I mean he's really on his own, you know, 1288 01:10:58.439 --> 01:11:01.239 I mean, I mean, I was Godfrey, you know, one 1289 01:11:01.279 --> 01:11:04.840 of us uh Rick Large but he is a serious 1290 01:11:05.520 --> 01:11:11.800 political theorist. But he's you know, he's he's found anitche audience, 1291 01:11:12.439 --> 01:11:16.199 kind of like Michael Jones says. But you know that 1292 01:11:16.600 --> 01:11:20.239 My point being that what what we're doing is really 1293 01:11:20.319 --> 01:11:25.880 kind of filled uh uh phi satisfying a demand, you know, 1294 01:11:26.039 --> 01:11:27.960 and the fact that demand exists in the first place. 1295 01:11:29.119 --> 01:11:31.279 It is a very positive tendency because that was not 1296 01:11:31.439 --> 01:11:34.880 the case twenty years ago. But yeah, we we can 1297 01:11:34.920 --> 01:11:38.680 dive in. We can dive in immediately. Man. 1298 01:11:39.600 --> 01:11:42.279 All right, well, yeah, here's something to start out with. 1299 01:11:43.640 --> 01:11:47.279 What did what did cREL consider himself? You're you know, 1300 01:11:47.359 --> 01:11:51.359 you read this and definitely brings up syndicalism a lot, definitely, 1301 01:11:52.159 --> 01:11:54.680 and also we know that he changed his mind on 1302 01:11:54.720 --> 01:11:58.800 some things as uh as his life progress. So when 1303 01:11:58.840 --> 01:12:01.720 you read Sorell, when you read Reflections on Violence, what 1304 01:12:01.880 --> 01:12:06.760 is he how how do you see the framework with 1305 01:12:07.199 --> 01:12:09.319 that he's personally writing it in what. 1306 01:12:09.399 --> 01:12:12.119 I think of? And that's that's that's a great question. 1307 01:12:12.279 --> 01:12:14.479 What I think of Cyrel personally, I think is a 1308 01:12:14.520 --> 01:12:16.760 pure I think he was a pure political theorist in 1309 01:12:16.760 --> 01:12:18.760 a lot of ways, and that's one of the reasons. 1310 01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:22.000 That's one of the things that distinguishes them from Mars. 1311 01:12:22.000 --> 01:12:24.960 I mean, obviously he was ideological sympathies and his esthetic 1312 01:12:25.039 --> 01:12:27.920 tendencies were totally to odds with Marxism. But you know, 1313 01:12:27.960 --> 01:12:30.279 like we talked about before, you know, Marx had these 1314 01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:34.359 pretensions Marsian angles both an equal measures. They had these 1315 01:12:34.399 --> 01:12:37.520 pretensions to science, you know, or this idea that you 1316 01:12:37.560 --> 01:12:40.720 know they were they were you know, they were they 1317 01:12:40.720 --> 01:12:43.359 were positing theories of economics and nothing of the sort 1318 01:12:43.439 --> 01:12:46.439 was underway. That's not my own conceptual bias, Like there 1319 01:12:46.479 --> 01:12:51.359 is no Marxist economics. There's a Marxist sociology. And yeah, 1320 01:12:51.399 --> 01:12:57.239 it posits uh, you know, values and and and uh 1321 01:12:57.439 --> 01:13:00.760 and observations about you know, the human condition and how 1322 01:13:00.880 --> 01:13:03.000 and obviously, I mean that's selling a fundamentally concerned with 1323 01:13:03.079 --> 01:13:06.159 particularly man and his relationship is on labor. But that's 1324 01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:08.479 that's not a theory of economics, you know, it's a 1325 01:13:08.600 --> 01:13:13.119 it's kind of it's kind of political sociology that it 1326 01:13:13.159 --> 01:13:17.399 places a premium on on Man as an economic actor, uh, 1327 01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:21.199 both severally and collectively, as it is kind of like 1328 01:13:21.199 --> 01:13:25.880 his primary is his primary kind of function as historically 1329 01:13:25.960 --> 01:13:29.239 as well as Andrew pot But that's not that's that's 1330 01:13:29.239 --> 01:13:33.960 not economic science, okay. And but Sorell I Mesuela is 1331 01:13:34.079 --> 01:13:39.000 very clear that he was he was dealing in pure 1332 01:13:39.039 --> 01:13:43.800 political theory, Okay. He was talking about value creation. He's 1333 01:13:43.840 --> 01:13:49.560 talking about animates people, you know, to to to create 1334 01:13:49.600 --> 01:13:53.560 political cultures, and you know, and and and and to 1335 01:13:53.720 --> 01:13:59.079 live historically, you know, and uh, you know fundamentally conserned 1336 01:13:59.119 --> 01:14:04.520 the questions of identity with esthetic with value judgments kind 1337 01:14:04.520 --> 01:14:10.319 of rendered by aesthetical tendencies, you know, uh, the things 1338 01:14:10.439 --> 01:14:12.159 uh you know kind of the kind of kind of 1339 01:14:12.279 --> 01:14:16.520 distilled down, uh as into human values, you know, things 1340 01:14:16.520 --> 01:14:18.800 like heroism and like what is heroism and in the 1341 01:14:18.800 --> 01:14:21.479 political realm and things like that. You know. That's why 1342 01:14:22.560 --> 01:14:25.279 the seminal text of Sorell, if you want to understand 1343 01:14:25.560 --> 01:14:27.960 this point I'm trying to make, and forgive me if 1344 01:14:27.960 --> 01:14:30.319 I'm being up the skater shot. As you know, with 1345 01:14:30.439 --> 01:14:33.920 Sorell's essay on the Trial of Socrates and why Socrates 1346 01:14:34.079 --> 01:14:37.760 deserve not only deserve to be executed, and in absolute 1347 01:14:37.800 --> 01:14:40.920 moral terms, but he was imperative and political terms because 1348 01:14:40.920 --> 01:14:46.960 people at Socrates had brought horrible damage to Athens, you know, 1349 01:14:47.039 --> 01:14:49.439 and and and really kind of destroyed the legacy of 1350 01:14:49.479 --> 01:14:54.880 Paraples as it were. And that's why that's why Sorell's favorite, Uh, 1351 01:14:55.199 --> 01:14:59.880 Sorell's favorite the pre Socratic thinker is Xenophon. I'm not 1352 01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:02.159 that's a really complicated issue, and I'm not a guy 1353 01:15:02.199 --> 01:15:05.079 who was an expert in the classics, but that you 1354 01:15:05.119 --> 01:15:10.359 know that that's fundamentally important. I'm just for our purposes 1355 01:15:10.439 --> 01:15:14.079 we're talking about here, it's it's premium, it's prem efficient 1356 01:15:14.159 --> 01:15:17.319 evidence that Currell did not pretend that he was you know, 1357 01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:20.199 that he was that that he was presenting some like 1358 01:15:20.239 --> 01:15:23.039 new science of economics. And he was not pretending that, 1359 01:15:23.640 --> 01:15:25.479 you know, he he was like the air to some 1360 01:15:25.560 --> 01:15:30.000 kind of rationalist socialism that uh was an improvement upon 1361 01:15:30.079 --> 01:15:32.920 Merks or something like. He He was a very he 1362 01:15:32.920 --> 01:15:36.520 was in a very real sense philosophizing with a hammer. Uh. 1363 01:15:36.560 --> 01:15:38.840 And frankly, he was concerned with a lot of the 1364 01:15:38.920 --> 01:15:43.039 same with a lot of the same phenomenon that Nietzsche was. 1365 01:15:43.600 --> 01:15:47.880 But he was far more of a practical, uh political 1366 01:15:47.920 --> 01:15:52.159 theorist about it, and he was driving different conclusions that 1367 01:15:52.399 --> 01:15:57.079 had superficially sort of similar uh the futures, if that 1368 01:15:57.199 --> 01:16:00.560 makes sense. But I draw the distinction, or I make 1369 01:16:00.600 --> 01:16:05.760 the comparison not accidentally or or or not because I'm 1370 01:16:05.760 --> 01:16:08.399 trying to be funny. But like the other day online, 1371 01:16:08.560 --> 01:16:10.760 like I was a bar of people who were mad 1372 01:16:10.760 --> 01:16:13.159 at me because they thought that I was putting shade 1373 01:16:13.159 --> 01:16:17.199 on and they're kind of nichean sensibilities and that's not 1374 01:16:17.279 --> 01:16:21.239 really what I was doing. But people like us, I feel, 1375 01:16:21.279 --> 01:16:23.239 can read wherever they want, okay, And I'm not I'm 1376 01:16:23.279 --> 01:16:26.600 not like the grand like Bury and of philosophy or something, 1377 01:16:27.439 --> 01:16:30.760 just kind of authority. They like tell people like like, 1378 01:16:30.840 --> 01:16:32.680 hey man, you should like read this, but not that. 1379 01:16:33.800 --> 01:16:36.720 But you know when people do approach me and say 1380 01:16:36.720 --> 01:16:39.880 they're interest didn't understanding you know, the twentieth century, and 1381 01:16:39.880 --> 01:16:43.920 they tell me that their interest didn't understanding you know, uh, 1382 01:16:44.279 --> 01:16:47.640 developing kind of like a practical paradigm of political action. 1383 01:16:48.199 --> 01:16:50.600 You know, you should be reading stuff like cREL a 1384 01:16:50.600 --> 01:16:53.119 lot more than you should be you know, sitting around reading. 1385 01:16:53.119 --> 01:16:56.199 You know, there's Arthustru and you know, genealogy and worlds 1386 01:16:56.600 --> 01:17:01.159 and things like that, but they you know, I and 1387 01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:03.439 I try and steer people. I mean, even even if 1388 01:17:03.439 --> 01:17:05.520 people are just kind of like died in the wool intellectuals. 1389 01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:07.640 I mean, it's great, okay. I mean, there's nothing at 1390 01:17:07.640 --> 01:17:10.560 all wrong with it, as long as tempered by a 1391 01:17:10.680 --> 01:17:15.560 kind of pragmatic grounding in the world. And it's not 1392 01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:17.760 some kind of you know, it's not some kind of 1393 01:17:17.800 --> 01:17:25.279 psychological coping mechanism of retreat. But the uh if if 1394 01:17:26.199 --> 01:17:28.000 one of the things that people that caused people that 1395 01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:31.319 gravitated towards thinkers like Nietzsche, and there's some degree Heidegger, 1396 01:17:31.439 --> 01:17:34.640 although they were very different, is uh you know, there 1397 01:17:34.680 --> 01:17:38.239 was there was there was a real historical crisis that 1398 01:17:38.239 --> 01:17:42.039 that reached the zenith you know in in uh in 1399 01:17:42.039 --> 01:17:46.600 in in elite modernity, you know, the mid really really 1400 01:17:46.600 --> 01:17:49.000 the mid nineteenth century, just when they started to impact 1401 01:17:49.279 --> 01:17:53.000 like regular people's individual lives, you know, and obviously it 1402 01:17:53.279 --> 01:17:55.720 reached a horrible zenith in the twentieth century. I mean, 1403 01:17:55.760 --> 01:17:57.239 I don't I don't see that for the reasons what 1404 01:17:57.319 --> 01:18:01.279 court of storians do. Obviously, as I mean, I drew, 1405 01:18:01.359 --> 01:18:05.760 I drived that observation for radically different reasons. But you know, 1406 01:18:05.800 --> 01:18:08.960 this can't be denied. And I try and expand people's 1407 01:18:09.000 --> 01:18:12.000 conceptual horizons and make them see that, like what Mitra 1408 01:18:12.119 --> 01:18:16.079 was not the only uh andoth very powerful language that 1409 01:18:16.119 --> 01:18:19.800 really resonates with with people, especially especially younger guys. Which 1410 01:18:19.840 --> 01:18:23.600 is fine, young guys have great energy that we need. 1411 01:18:24.239 --> 01:18:29.199 But I try and help steer people the fact that 1412 01:18:29.359 --> 01:18:31.439 you know, he was not the only thinker concerned with 1413 01:18:31.479 --> 01:18:34.640 these things. There was many others who were, and there's 1414 01:18:34.720 --> 01:18:36.960 many on the right who were, And there was many 1415 01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:44.920 who whose ideas and and philosophies held a far more 1416 01:18:45.199 --> 01:18:49.039 kind of relevant pray to go relevance to you know, 1417 01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:51.439 the the current dilemma. And so that's kind where Sorell 1418 01:18:51.479 --> 01:18:54.720 comes in. But I he was. I look at sir 1419 01:18:54.880 --> 01:18:58.119 as a pure political theorist and a uh and and 1420 01:18:58.159 --> 01:19:01.079 a political sociologist were at large, and he was fundamentally 1421 01:19:01.119 --> 01:19:05.239 concerned with the economic But you know, that's everybody was. 1422 01:19:05.359 --> 01:19:08.119 You know, like the Zeit guys do exist in is 1423 01:19:08.159 --> 01:19:10.760 like the Zeit guys do exist in. You know, you've 1424 01:19:10.760 --> 01:19:12.800 got to you've got to, like a whether you want 1425 01:19:12.840 --> 01:19:16.439 to or not, you've got to abide the the epoch 1426 01:19:16.760 --> 01:19:20.319 in which you're situated and the kind of conceptual realities 1427 01:19:22.239 --> 01:19:24.680 that are paramount, you know, and his guys is a 1428 01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:26.359 real thing. You know. You don't have to be a 1429 01:19:26.560 --> 01:19:28.560 gaily End or you don't have to believe in God if, 1430 01:19:29.119 --> 01:19:31.239 but you can't deny that, like, the Zeitgeist is a 1431 01:19:31.279 --> 01:19:33.439 real thing. I mean maybe you maybe you come at 1432 01:19:33.479 --> 01:19:35.600 it as like, well, you know, it's just kind of 1433 01:19:35.600 --> 01:19:39.000 a you know, it's just like a functional mass psychology 1434 01:19:39.079 --> 01:19:42.479 or whatever, or you know people or or like you're 1435 01:19:42.600 --> 01:19:47.720 like epigenetic memory come, uh, basic structures of mind. It's like, okay, 1436 01:19:47.760 --> 01:19:49.760 it doesn't matter for our purpose. It is like what 1437 01:19:50.079 --> 01:19:52.960 causes the Zeitgeist to emerge, but it is a real thing, 1438 01:19:53.600 --> 01:19:58.520 you know, and like what's possible politically is very much 1439 01:19:58.560 --> 01:20:04.880 bounded like pen by those parameters. You know. That's why lately, uh, 1440 01:20:04.960 --> 01:20:08.560 I mean, my big project right now is uh is 1441 01:20:08.800 --> 01:20:13.159 is uh, you know, making progress on the Nermer with 1442 01:20:13.319 --> 01:20:16.720 transcript and that that's preceding at taste, But I want 1443 01:20:16.720 --> 01:20:19.640 to write about the d d R and uh the 1444 01:20:19.760 --> 01:20:23.159 radical German left post nineteen forty five and things like 1445 01:20:23.159 --> 01:20:26.159 the botder mindhoff Gang. You know more globally onto the 1446 01:20:26.199 --> 01:20:28.840 Red Army faction. You know, like a lot of these people. 1447 01:20:29.039 --> 01:20:31.039 And I realized this is a tangent, but I'll bring 1448 01:20:31.079 --> 01:20:33.159 it back. I'm going to start with this. This is topable. 1449 01:20:34.079 --> 01:20:35.640 A lot of the people who are involved with it, 1450 01:20:36.920 --> 01:20:40.359 they weren't first of all, like versusing. None of them 1451 01:20:40.359 --> 01:20:43.199 were relacure minorities like they They were very much like 1452 01:20:43.279 --> 01:20:46.439 German boys and girls, okay, And they were attracted to 1453 01:20:46.479 --> 01:20:50.560 this really because that's what was possible within with you know, 1454 01:20:50.600 --> 01:20:53.760 within the conceptual parameters of the Cold War, you know. 1455 01:20:54.039 --> 01:20:59.399 And interestingly Horsemahler, who was uh, you know, a self 1456 01:20:59.439 --> 01:21:05.760 identified you know, stalotist radical who who became a lawyer 1457 01:21:05.800 --> 01:21:08.279 and he defended a lot of the boder Minehoff people 1458 01:21:08.319 --> 01:21:12.319 in court. You know. He after the after the Berlin 1459 01:21:12.359 --> 01:21:14.960 Wall came down, he joined he joined the NPD and 1460 01:21:15.039 --> 01:21:17.640 he was actually arrested in prison for quote Holocaust and 1461 01:21:17.720 --> 01:21:20.199 Island things. I mean, so he basically and and some 1462 01:21:20.199 --> 01:21:21.960 people were like, oh, what is synic this man is? 1463 01:21:22.000 --> 01:21:23.920 I say no, I think there was always what his 1464 01:21:24.000 --> 01:21:27.359 sympathies were. But you know, he was a German guy 1465 01:21:27.399 --> 01:21:29.920 from the East who was you know, born in nineteen forties, 1466 01:21:29.920 --> 01:21:31.600 Like what was he like, what was he gonna do 1467 01:21:31.720 --> 01:21:33.720 like march around like horse or vessel? Was he gonna 1468 01:21:34.239 --> 01:21:36.800 you know, was he gonna try to organize like a 1469 01:21:36.840 --> 01:21:39.039 march on Rome in nineteen sixty? I mean, it's not 1470 01:21:40.000 --> 01:21:42.399 that that's not the way the world was, you know, 1471 01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:46.479 and it uh, and it's not just it's not just 1472 01:21:46.560 --> 01:21:50.479 a matter of of practical potentialities. It's also I mean 1473 01:21:50.640 --> 01:21:54.720 just what what what speaks to people? Like what guys uh, 1474 01:21:55.119 --> 01:21:59.479 potentialities within the political realm emerged, you know, so I 1475 01:21:59.479 --> 01:22:01.520 I want to more about this, you know. And there's 1476 01:22:01.560 --> 01:22:04.640 also and that's one of the reasons too, I'm interested 1477 01:22:04.680 --> 01:22:06.800 in guys like Johann von Leirds. I mean, I'm interested 1478 01:22:06.800 --> 01:22:11.279 in Islam for and it's impact on the political for 1479 01:22:11.279 --> 01:22:15.359 all kinds of reasons. But guys like him and guys 1480 01:22:15.399 --> 01:22:18.439 like I'm at Hubert, it was like the same kind 1481 01:22:18.439 --> 01:22:21.159 of thing, okay, Like they were kind of unusual people 1482 01:22:21.760 --> 01:22:26.159 and you know, kind of like orientalist adventurer types, but 1483 01:22:26.439 --> 01:22:30.000 they they very much. I mean, I'm not gonna claim 1484 01:22:30.039 --> 01:22:32.239 to know like what I mean, I've never leave the 1485 01:22:32.319 --> 01:22:35.720 Christian faith, okay, but I I can't I can only 1486 01:22:35.760 --> 01:22:38.640 speculate and like, what motivates people to convert to like 1487 01:22:38.640 --> 01:22:42.279 what a very alien religions? I mean, for all I 1488 01:22:42.319 --> 01:22:44.840 know this was very genuine and some kind of spiritual 1489 01:22:45.239 --> 01:22:49.920 uh calling. But I also there's a negatively political aspect 1490 01:22:50.000 --> 01:22:52.039 in the case of people like von Leers and Mahler 1491 01:22:52.600 --> 01:22:55.000 and that oh what I just said. The Zeit guy 1492 01:22:55.159 --> 01:22:59.800 said the questions of you know what what what is? Uh? What? 1493 01:22:59.800 --> 01:23:06.600 What was possible you know, within within the conceptual parameters 1494 01:23:06.640 --> 01:23:08.399 of of the e F. I'm that much was situated. 1495 01:23:08.840 --> 01:23:10.840 I know that was long winded, but it's it's it's 1496 01:23:10.840 --> 01:23:15.640 frankly a big question. But yeah, that's that's that's that's 1497 01:23:15.680 --> 01:23:18.199 not That's how I characterized Sorel. That's why I believe 1498 01:23:18.600 --> 01:23:25.079 he's there's an enduring relevance there. It's SAE for Werner Sombart. Uh. 1499 01:23:25.119 --> 01:23:27.039 And well, if you want to, we'll do a episode 1500 01:23:27.039 --> 01:23:30.039 on Werner Sombart. You know, he was he was kind 1501 01:23:30.039 --> 01:23:31.920 of like the other like socialist of the right, and 1502 01:23:32.039 --> 01:23:36.199 he was German obviously, and he wrote Specific America and 1503 01:23:36.239 --> 01:23:40.880 why socialism is not resonant in America, which is fascinating 1504 01:23:40.880 --> 01:23:45.520 and timely, but that's that's that's my not so brief 1505 01:23:45.840 --> 01:23:49.000 answer to the question as to how I characterized Sorel 1506 01:23:49.159 --> 01:23:52.159 or categorize him. 1507 01:23:52.199 --> 01:23:55.600 Okay, I'm glad you brought up the zite Geist, because 1508 01:23:55.880 --> 01:24:02.000 I think that operating in the Zeitgeist, when your thought 1509 01:24:02.279 --> 01:24:08.840 is firmly planted within the Zeitgeist, you can make you 1510 01:24:08.880 --> 01:24:13.920 either make very realistic decisions or in my case, in 1511 01:24:14.000 --> 01:24:19.239 the past, you have very fanciful decisions. And I want 1512 01:24:19.239 --> 01:24:22.680 to read this passage right here, and it points to 1513 01:24:22.680 --> 01:24:24.880 a lot of what I was talking about. And this 1514 01:24:24.960 --> 01:24:30.479 is in part three of the chapter Prejudices against Violence. 1515 01:24:31.000 --> 01:24:34.640 I just want to read this chapter. It says the 1516 01:24:34.800 --> 01:24:37.560 army is the clearest and most tangible of all possible 1517 01:24:37.600 --> 01:24:40.680 manifestations of the state, and the one which is most 1518 01:24:40.680 --> 01:24:45.560 firmly connected with its origins and traditions. Syndicalists do not 1519 01:24:45.680 --> 01:24:48.479 propose to reform the state as the men of the 1520 01:24:48.520 --> 01:24:52.479 eighteenth century did. They want to destroy it because they 1521 01:24:52.520 --> 01:24:55.760 wish to realize the idea of marxis that the socialist 1522 01:24:55.800 --> 01:24:59.239 revolution ought not to culminate in the replacement of one 1523 01:24:59.279 --> 01:25:04.119 governing monarch already by another minority. The syndicalists outline their doctrines, 1524 01:25:04.239 --> 01:25:07.560 still more clearly when they give it a more ideological 1525 01:25:07.680 --> 01:25:12.960 aspect and declare themselves anti patriotic. Following the example of 1526 01:25:13.039 --> 01:25:17.119 the Communist Manifesto, he actually goes on to say, it 1527 01:25:17.199 --> 01:25:20.760 is impossible that there should be the slightest understanding between 1528 01:25:20.800 --> 01:25:25.520 syndicalists and official socialists on this question. The latter, of course, 1529 01:25:25.640 --> 01:25:30.039 talking about official socialists speak of breaking up everything, but 1530 01:25:30.119 --> 01:25:34.880 they attack men in power rather than power itself. They 1531 01:25:34.920 --> 01:25:38.399 hope to possess the state forces, and they are aware 1532 01:25:38.479 --> 01:25:41.439 that on the day when they control the government they 1533 01:25:41.439 --> 01:25:44.159 will have need of an army, they will carry on 1534 01:25:44.279 --> 01:25:48.479 foreign politics, and consequently they, in their turn, will have 1535 01:25:48.560 --> 01:25:52.520 to praise the feeling of devotion to the fatherland. The 1536 01:25:52.600 --> 01:25:58.000 reason I brought I chose that passage is because it's 1537 01:25:58.119 --> 01:26:01.079 very easy. I know a lot of the people in 1538 01:26:01.119 --> 01:26:05.039 my orbit are anarchists. A lot of them call themselves 1539 01:26:05.079 --> 01:26:10.520 right wing anarchists. And it seems to me that the 1540 01:26:10.560 --> 01:26:14.680 reason that anarchy can seem very appealing to a lot 1541 01:26:14.720 --> 01:26:19.359 of people is because they don't see an answer in 1542 01:26:19.399 --> 01:26:26.239 the zeitgeist for their morality, what they believe. And another 1543 01:26:26.279 --> 01:26:29.680 thing something that I wrote is it seems that moral 1544 01:26:29.760 --> 01:26:35.960 superiority when you have no solution to present dilemmas, leads 1545 01:26:36.000 --> 01:26:41.720 you to become somebody who politics becomes all about morality, 1546 01:26:42.159 --> 01:26:46.279 because it's very easy to win a political argument if 1547 01:26:46.319 --> 01:26:50.800 you just say, well, all war is immoral, all taxation 1548 01:26:51.079 --> 01:26:57.039 is immoral, everything is immoral when you have no when 1549 01:26:57.479 --> 01:27:02.039 there is no vision that you can see of overthrowing 1550 01:27:02.159 --> 01:27:07.880 what is in power now where it seems like these anarchists, 1551 01:27:08.800 --> 01:27:14.079 and I'm including my former self are no different than 1552 01:27:14.119 --> 01:27:17.319 these syndicalists who just want to destroy everything and will 1553 01:27:17.319 --> 01:27:22.399 even resort to anti patriotism and saying that power it 1554 01:27:22.520 --> 01:27:29.560 is possible to destroy power when you're basically moralizing against 1555 01:27:29.920 --> 01:27:33.159 the site geist you know that exists. 1556 01:27:33.720 --> 01:27:37.479 Well, yeah, and I think in America there's a conceptual 1557 01:27:37.560 --> 01:27:41.479 problem here too. The reason why you know, the anarchists 1558 01:27:41.479 --> 01:27:45.840 who did crazy stuff like attacking the UH the Chicago 1559 01:27:45.880 --> 01:27:51.159 Federal Building and it's like literally blowing it up, and 1560 01:27:50.880 --> 01:27:54.000 these these guys like Sacho and many like is Italian 1561 01:27:54.000 --> 01:27:57.720 anarchists suit your point, we're very much like in in 1562 01:27:57.840 --> 01:28:01.479 bed with cyndical is, you know, like like erceptually in 1563 01:28:01.560 --> 01:28:06.479 Europe that had that was kind of like anarchism like 1564 01:28:06.640 --> 01:28:11.960 had within conceptual vocabulary of European socialism, like anarchism made sense, 1565 01:28:12.039 --> 01:28:13.439 you know that, even if it was not a good 1566 01:28:13.479 --> 01:28:18.760 idea in America, I think there are like anarchists in 1567 01:28:18.760 --> 01:28:23.199 America who actually like I think that. I think I 1568 01:28:23.239 --> 01:28:26.920 think they're to your point in doublging and flights of fantasy, 1569 01:28:27.000 --> 01:28:30.600 but they do have a pretty deep understanding of h 1570 01:28:31.640 --> 01:28:36.079 of H of the source material. But I think most 1571 01:28:36.079 --> 01:28:38.560 people in America grantate towards it, Like when they think 1572 01:28:38.560 --> 01:28:42.279 of anarchism, they're not really thinking of anarchism per se. 1573 01:28:42.760 --> 01:28:47.560 They're thinking of kind of like a Habizian ontology of oh, well, naturally, 1574 01:28:47.640 --> 01:28:51.760 there's no there's no course of authority, you know, and 1575 01:28:52.199 --> 01:28:53.600 all we need to do is, you know, kind of 1576 01:28:53.640 --> 01:28:57.159 overcome this tendency to exploit others and you know that 1577 01:28:57.239 --> 01:29:01.279 the state of nature has no government, which is nonsense 1578 01:29:02.920 --> 01:29:08.000 and also too if people kind of associate all authority 1579 01:29:08.199 --> 01:29:13.640 with like this, you know, new dealer uh bureaucracy committed 1580 01:29:13.640 --> 01:29:17.439 to social engineering and all kinds of and all kinds 1581 01:29:17.479 --> 01:29:20.840 of in all kinds of tyrannies like prosaic and profound, 1582 01:29:21.039 --> 01:29:24.159 like screw with people vibes you know, individually as well 1583 01:29:24.199 --> 01:29:28.479 as collectively, culturally, socially and everything else. Like it's not 1584 01:29:28.760 --> 01:29:32.199 some people develop this binary tendency. They don't realize that 1585 01:29:32.279 --> 01:29:36.760 there's various iterations of government and like government quad government 1586 01:29:36.880 --> 01:29:40.279 doesn't just like equate to you know what this like 1587 01:29:40.359 --> 01:29:43.239 obsolete like cold world of Iathan that we're kind of 1588 01:29:43.239 --> 01:29:48.600 stuck with in America. You know, I governments neither good 1589 01:29:48.680 --> 01:29:50.720 or bad like on its face, you know, I mean 1590 01:29:50.760 --> 01:29:53.560 it's I'm always making the point of people that you know, 1591 01:29:53.600 --> 01:29:57.199 because uh like a lot of people know that I 1592 01:29:57.279 --> 01:29:59.840 you know, I identify a lot with you know, Confederate 1593 01:29:59.840 --> 01:30:05.079 here and stuff, you know, for for cultural and theological 1594 01:30:05.119 --> 01:30:07.800 and like racial reasons, but as well as you know, 1595 01:30:08.199 --> 01:30:10.159 historical ones. And they're like, well, how can you also 1596 01:30:10.239 --> 01:30:13.039 like admire the Prussian state? It's like because there's a 1597 01:30:13.039 --> 01:30:16.399 commonality there and that you know, the regime that came 1598 01:30:16.439 --> 01:30:20.880 into existence was appropriate for the people within its dominion 1599 01:30:21.359 --> 01:30:25.159 as well as you know, the political challenges that were extants. 1600 01:30:25.680 --> 01:30:28.239 You know it, uh like the Prussian regime was appropriate 1601 01:30:28.319 --> 01:30:32.680 for Prussia, like you know, the Confederate Yaloemen re you 1602 01:30:32.720 --> 01:30:35.359 know it truly we're kind of like self governing and 1603 01:30:35.439 --> 01:30:37.760 in a classical sense. So it's as much as that 1604 01:30:37.840 --> 01:30:40.520 was possible you know in the in the nineteenth century. 1605 01:30:40.760 --> 01:30:42.880 I mean that was appropriate for them. You know. It's 1606 01:30:42.880 --> 01:30:45.439 not like there's like one like it. It's not it's 1607 01:30:45.479 --> 01:30:48.359 not just like one modality a government that is appropriate. 1608 01:30:48.439 --> 01:30:52.000 There's categorically wrong. I mean obviously there's something there. There's 1609 01:30:52.039 --> 01:30:54.880 some there, there's some configurations of government that are just 1610 01:30:54.960 --> 01:30:58.119 absolutely like terrible, okay, Like I mean there's something like 1611 01:30:58.159 --> 01:31:00.600 weird Internet guy. Like no nobody was say that, like 1612 01:31:01.079 --> 01:31:04.439 you know, democratic Campucchia, like like a great regime, you know, 1613 01:31:04.600 --> 01:31:11.359 like something, but you know, the yeah, people can just 1614 01:31:11.359 --> 01:31:14.720 make it like categorically sweeping judgments like the The problem 1615 01:31:14.760 --> 01:31:17.920 with regimes like that in America and like that which 1616 01:31:18.119 --> 01:31:22.079 has been imposed on Western Europe is that it's it's 1617 01:31:22.199 --> 01:31:24.159 I compare it to like you know, you know, like 1618 01:31:24.159 --> 01:31:26.560 the old Ray Bradbury story Faaraaneck for fifty one, like 1619 01:31:26.600 --> 01:31:28.399 when I was in high school, Like people still like 1620 01:31:28.479 --> 01:31:32.680 read that, like he to sign it, and you know 1621 01:31:32.720 --> 01:31:35.119 have like the fire department and fairne forty one. Their 1622 01:31:35.119 --> 01:31:37.159 guys actually go out and start fires like the US 1623 01:31:37.239 --> 01:31:39.840 government is like a fire department that starts fires because 1624 01:31:40.039 --> 01:31:42.720 like governmental dres its legitimacy from the degree to which 1625 01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:46.319 it guarantees the posterity like the people in their culture 1626 01:31:47.079 --> 01:31:50.159 and and the government is quite literally working to annihilate 1627 01:31:50.239 --> 01:31:53.319 those things. And that that's that's it's beyond like a 1628 01:31:53.439 --> 01:31:56.800 dysfunctional government. That's it's abjectly perverse. You know, it's a 1629 01:31:56.960 --> 01:32:00.560 it's a cross purposes with the raison detrovan government. I 1630 01:32:00.560 --> 01:32:03.159 mean that that's that's really what brought down the Soviet system, 1631 01:32:03.439 --> 01:32:06.800 you know, I mean, yeah, there was the planned economy 1632 01:32:06.840 --> 01:32:09.720 doesn't work. You know, you can't. You can't. You can't 1633 01:32:09.720 --> 01:32:13.800 abolish the incentive for creativity. We're large, and they just 1634 01:32:13.840 --> 01:32:15.920 say like, well, we're gonna you know, we're just gonna 1635 01:32:15.920 --> 01:32:18.800 plan all like economic activity and all. And you can't 1636 01:32:18.880 --> 01:32:22.239 like plan spontaneous innovation. Okay, that's ridiculous, you know, and 1637 01:32:22.319 --> 01:32:26.239 obviously like it didn't. It didn't. It didn't deliver anything 1638 01:32:26.279 --> 01:32:28.479 of of of real value to people. And then some 1639 01:32:28.600 --> 01:32:33.640 kind of basic security of material nature, you know, I 1640 01:32:33.680 --> 01:32:36.079 mean in every like their bone sense. But that's not 1641 01:32:36.319 --> 01:32:40.319 like why if that collapsed, there's there's ysfunctional governments that 1642 01:32:40.439 --> 01:32:42.880 just like lurch on for centuries, you know, like the 1643 01:32:42.880 --> 01:32:46.399 out of an empire, Okay, like the Soviet regime fell 1644 01:32:46.560 --> 01:32:49.800 because it was it was literally like this perverse iteration 1645 01:32:49.960 --> 01:32:54.760 of of of of a regime that was literally across 1646 01:32:54.800 --> 01:32:58.199 purposes with with you know what what what should be 1647 01:32:58.279 --> 01:33:00.840 like the t los of government. Then if you if 1648 01:33:00.880 --> 01:33:02.640 you're literally like one of things I agree with the 1649 01:33:02.720 --> 01:33:06.840 Michael Jones on is if you're literally proceeding like if 1650 01:33:06.840 --> 01:33:09.520 you're literally proceeding against a reason, like that's kind of 1651 01:33:09.520 --> 01:33:12.399 like your course set. You know, you're like anti reason, 1652 01:33:12.640 --> 01:33:15.920 like that can't really sustain itself. And eventually people are 1653 01:33:15.920 --> 01:33:18.800 gonna revolt against that. I mean, even if they don't 1654 01:33:18.880 --> 01:33:21.720 understand really like what's wrong with the regime they're under 1655 01:33:21.960 --> 01:33:25.079 and like philosophical or ethical or or any kind of 1656 01:33:25.439 --> 01:33:31.039 you know it like you know, intellectual terms, just because 1657 01:33:31.359 --> 01:33:33.880 it's it's it's gonna like start, it's gonna star like 1658 01:33:33.880 --> 01:33:36.399 from any obstacles their ability to lead a normal life, 1659 01:33:36.680 --> 01:33:39.359 you know, and like do anything constructive, you know, And 1660 01:33:39.399 --> 01:33:42.319 that's that's kind of where we're at now. But yeah, 1661 01:33:42.359 --> 01:33:43.920 I forgive me if that was a long one. 1662 01:33:45.520 --> 01:33:48.960 Well, I think the you would you had talked about 1663 01:33:49.039 --> 01:33:54.479 how understanding the zeitgeist is most important. So if you 1664 01:33:54.560 --> 01:34:02.560 were to take any lessons from Sorel in repairing what 1665 01:34:02.640 --> 01:34:07.319 we have here. Okay, so we don't have we don't 1666 01:34:07.319 --> 01:34:11.079 have a history of communism here, we have a history. 1667 01:34:11.399 --> 01:34:14.600 We don't have a history of Roman Catholicism here. You know, 1668 01:34:14.600 --> 01:34:21.560 we have a history of Protestant farmers, working men who 1669 01:34:22.720 --> 01:34:29.000 basically can have a history of providing for themselves. So 1670 01:34:29.600 --> 01:34:32.960 the you know, what is the answer that's you know, 1671 01:34:33.039 --> 01:34:37.079 it's like a lot of the people I know, their 1672 01:34:37.199 --> 01:34:39.600 answer is, well, we just have to get rid of 1673 01:34:39.640 --> 01:34:42.239 the state. As we get rid of the state, then 1674 01:34:42.399 --> 01:34:47.600 you know, the we can institute good economics quote economics. 1675 01:34:47.680 --> 01:34:50.640 Of course that has never been tried. They just assume 1676 01:34:50.720 --> 01:34:53.960 that it's going to be better. You know, people will 1677 01:34:54.960 --> 01:34:57.319 be able to defend themselves. Well, if we just get 1678 01:34:57.399 --> 01:35:00.479 rid of gun laws, any gun law, then you know, 1679 01:35:01.039 --> 01:35:05.039 violence can take care of itself, because you can if 1680 01:35:05.039 --> 01:35:08.319 somebody comes at you, now you're you can have a 1681 01:35:08.319 --> 01:35:11.520 bigger gun than them. I mean not not taking into 1682 01:35:11.560 --> 01:35:14.399 account that people just with people are large families just 1683 01:35:14.439 --> 01:35:19.079 put together their own armies, you know, and so when 1684 01:35:19.119 --> 01:35:24.399 you try to devise an answer to what we have now, 1685 01:35:24.840 --> 01:35:29.159 I don't think that going backwards in time is what's 1686 01:35:29.199 --> 01:35:30.720 going to solve it. We're going to it's going to 1687 01:35:30.800 --> 01:35:34.560 be something new, but it's going to be something that 1688 01:35:34.680 --> 01:35:38.560 involves a government of some sort, and I think it's 1689 01:35:38.600 --> 01:35:41.279 going to I would assume it's going to be something 1690 01:35:41.760 --> 01:35:45.359 that would be more of a right classic right wing 1691 01:35:45.960 --> 01:35:51.319 government if we're going to hold any of this together, unless, 1692 01:35:51.399 --> 01:35:54.399 of course it just breaks up and balkanizes. 1693 01:35:54.000 --> 01:35:56.520 Well, there some of some of the problems that take 1694 01:35:56.520 --> 01:36:00.800 care of itself. There's not even appalling in or some 1695 01:36:00.920 --> 01:36:03.840 kind of or some kind of Uh. I don't have 1696 01:36:03.880 --> 01:36:07.479 some kind of like eschatology of you know, how the 1697 01:36:07.479 --> 01:36:09.880 government is going to all go down or something and that. 1698 01:36:10.960 --> 01:36:13.680 But what's gonna hit to my point about what I 1699 01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:18.479 raised earlier about or a minute ago, rather about you know, 1700 01:36:18.600 --> 01:36:20.479 not being able to stay in the churus. That's literally 1701 01:36:20.520 --> 01:36:23.039 at odds with the reason. I mean, there's there's a 1702 01:36:23.079 --> 01:36:27.039 few things wrong with the government, Okay, one of which 1703 01:36:27.079 --> 01:36:29.359 is structural. You know, like we've talked about like regardless 1704 01:36:29.359 --> 01:36:31.279 how you felt feel about like Roosevelt in a history 1705 01:36:31.399 --> 01:36:34.079 or the New Deal or whatever. Like the regimes that 1706 01:36:34.159 --> 01:36:37.600 exist today, it's an anachronism. It's as much of them 1707 01:36:37.640 --> 01:36:40.840 as as the Soviet Union was and like a turangle, okay, 1708 01:36:40.880 --> 01:36:45.159 because it's it's it's structured to do something that that 1709 01:36:45.680 --> 01:36:50.119 is uh that there's no longer extant. Okay, I mean 1710 01:36:50.239 --> 01:36:52.920 it's it's it's structured to wage the Cold War, Okay, 1711 01:36:52.960 --> 01:36:57.000 and then that's about it, and literally everything else that's 1712 01:36:57.039 --> 01:37:00.319 subservient to that, because even even regimes are totally just functional, 1713 01:37:00.399 --> 01:37:03.479 even even those that are populated by people we don't 1714 01:37:03.479 --> 01:37:09.039 have any meaningful understanding of of high politics conceptually, they're 1715 01:37:09.079 --> 01:37:12.239 they're like bound by basic realities, okay, like going to 1716 01:37:12.239 --> 01:37:14.359 the fact that you know, their ability to act like 1717 01:37:14.439 --> 01:37:19.520 hemmed in by uh by by by critical disincentives to 1718 01:37:20.119 --> 01:37:25.079 you know, to push up against that. Okay. So everything 1719 01:37:25.119 --> 01:37:27.600 was every everything is subserve me at the high politics, okay, 1720 01:37:28.279 --> 01:37:33.159 when particularly when you have uh a situation, strategic landscape 1721 01:37:33.199 --> 01:37:38.039 like that of the Cold War. So, I mean, the 1722 01:37:38.840 --> 01:37:42.720 regimes just it's it's it's it's you know, it's a 1723 01:37:42.760 --> 01:37:45.680 it's a quote solution like in constant search of a 1724 01:37:45.720 --> 01:37:49.239 problem to you know, to the rationalize its continued existence. 1725 01:37:49.640 --> 01:37:54.399 So there's that. There's also uh, there's this radical uh 1726 01:37:55.000 --> 01:38:00.359 faction that's you know, really really I mean, the New 1727 01:38:00.399 --> 01:38:05.159 Deal was when it was when it was able to 1728 01:38:05.520 --> 01:38:11.399 assert itself politically and truly kind of concrete, organized capacities. 1729 01:38:11.840 --> 01:38:14.359 So I mean frout a century, we've we've just kind 1730 01:38:14.359 --> 01:38:20.079 of like lampre wrapped around the the structure of government. 1731 01:38:20.439 --> 01:38:26.600 Verbially speaking, that's uh that, that's uh that that's actively 1732 01:38:26.600 --> 01:38:30.399 trying to destroy the culture and uh the ability of 1733 01:38:30.800 --> 01:38:35.600 the people, uh who are the you know within that 1734 01:38:35.680 --> 01:38:40.239 culture live historically or to or to harbor any identities 1735 01:38:41.399 --> 01:38:47.680 of a historical nature. Okay, if and that must that 1736 01:38:47.800 --> 01:38:52.119 have to be excised. How it's going to excise that 1737 01:38:52.159 --> 01:38:56.760 depends on what develops. But the structural problem I was 1738 01:38:56.800 --> 01:39:01.199 talking about about the obsolescence of uh, the regime that's 1739 01:39:01.239 --> 01:39:03.880 gonna take care of itself, and not in some punctuated way. 1740 01:39:03.920 --> 01:39:06.479 It's not gonna be some like Mad Max scenario where 1741 01:39:06.479 --> 01:39:09.640 everything blows up one day. It might take two hundred 1742 01:39:09.680 --> 01:39:12.680 and fifty years or something, Okay, but gradually it's just 1743 01:39:12.720 --> 01:39:15.359 not gonna be able to assert itself anymore. And you're 1744 01:39:15.359 --> 01:39:20.279 gonna see localities, you know, whether you know, whether it's 1745 01:39:20.319 --> 01:39:22.600 some what you know, whether it's like some some mid 1746 01:39:22.640 --> 01:39:26.359 size city in New Mexico, Arizona that you know, can't 1747 01:39:26.399 --> 01:39:29.880 rely on the federal government, you know, to provide it with, uh, 1748 01:39:30.159 --> 01:39:32.640 with the water it needs and things like that, and 1749 01:39:32.680 --> 01:39:38.159 the infrastructural uh, the things it needs. So you know, 1750 01:39:38.199 --> 01:39:40.640 it's just gonna it's just gonna have to find ways 1751 01:39:40.680 --> 01:39:43.760 to you know, to resort to self help, you know, 1752 01:39:43.840 --> 01:39:47.000 in Congress with you know, like the other states and 1753 01:39:47.079 --> 01:39:50.560 municipalities that are similarly situated, or whether it's you know, 1754 01:39:51.399 --> 01:39:54.640 some place like Chicago where you know, you take this 1755 01:39:54.760 --> 01:39:56.880 you know, you take like the West Side that's like 1756 01:39:56.880 --> 01:39:59.520 increasingly just like kind of going to hell in a handbasket, 1757 01:40:00.039 --> 01:40:02.079 you know, like the police increasingly you just kind of 1758 01:40:02.119 --> 01:40:05.039 like just don't patrol anymore. You know, you're gonna see 1759 01:40:05.079 --> 01:40:08.039 more and more situations like that where uh, you know, 1760 01:40:08.119 --> 01:40:11.119 people in true like ghettos like like live like Perl, 1761 01:40:11.319 --> 01:40:15.880 not intersecting lives with like bourgeois people, and they don't 1762 01:40:15.920 --> 01:40:18.920 even like really interfere with each other anymore, Okay, like uh, 1763 01:40:19.000 --> 01:40:21.039 and then that that's happening as we speak like I 1764 01:40:21.159 --> 01:40:23.520 see it. I'm not just like it's not some science 1765 01:40:23.520 --> 01:40:26.560 fiction thing I came up with. So like things like 1766 01:40:26.640 --> 01:40:28.600 that are kind of gonna kind of gonna conspire to 1767 01:40:29.159 --> 01:40:32.720 you know, just kind of like deprive the regime of 1768 01:40:32.800 --> 01:40:39.000 credibility in uh in hard power terms, and uh that 1769 01:40:39.319 --> 01:40:44.399 will uh that that'll like the the uh the radical 1770 01:40:44.720 --> 01:40:50.479 culture distortion element within that regime. Like on account of 1771 01:40:50.479 --> 01:40:53.399 these kinds of structural frailties that are increasingly emergent, it 1772 01:40:53.479 --> 01:40:55.680 won't be able to impose its will on people anymore. 1773 01:40:56.000 --> 01:40:58.119 You know, it's not gonna be able to insinuate crazy 1774 01:40:58.159 --> 01:41:00.520 ideas to the part of education. You know, it's not 1775 01:41:00.560 --> 01:41:03.680 going to be able to you know, transform like what 1776 01:41:03.760 --> 01:41:07.119 we're you know, basically functional with kind of poor communities 1777 01:41:07.119 --> 01:41:09.439 into like ghettos where like you know, race wars are 1778 01:41:09.439 --> 01:41:13.439 going on. It's not gonna be able to you know, uh, 1779 01:41:14.000 --> 01:41:17.840 it's not it's not gonna be able to mobilize uh people, uh, 1780 01:41:17.960 --> 01:41:20.840 you know, to go and annihilate you know, other societies 1781 01:41:20.880 --> 01:41:23.920 overseas that decide you don't have to be destroyed, and 1782 01:41:23.960 --> 01:41:26.479 that that's already happening too. You know. That's why increasingly 1783 01:41:26.640 --> 01:41:31.600 this reliance on mercenaries and and things like that. So 1784 01:41:32.920 --> 01:41:38.600 what what will emerge from those proverbial ashes. I believe 1785 01:41:38.720 --> 01:41:42.760 once you strip away what I just talk about and 1786 01:41:42.800 --> 01:41:45.079 the core of America, you know, kind of like the 1787 01:41:45.079 --> 01:41:48.319 white Christian core and those people who are you know, 1788 01:41:48.319 --> 01:41:53.279 who perhaps aren't you know, like us ethnically or or 1789 01:41:53.760 --> 01:41:56.119 or or don't like a bid you know, the same 1790 01:41:56.199 --> 01:41:59.319 sex that we do. But where my fellow travelers in 1791 01:41:59.359 --> 01:42:00.960 terms there are billy you to you know, create and 1792 01:42:01.039 --> 01:42:05.399 sustained culture that kind of core. I think that kind 1793 01:42:05.399 --> 01:42:08.479 of like the core setting of America is like hamiled 1794 01:42:08.600 --> 01:42:11.079 vers of Jefferson. And a lot of people object to that, 1795 01:42:11.479 --> 01:42:15.159 and that can be like oversimplified, but basically it's the 1796 01:42:15.239 --> 01:42:20.159 federalist versus an anti federalist perspective, okay. And you can 1797 01:42:20.199 --> 01:42:23.720 see some states that uh tend towards the former and 1798 01:42:23.760 --> 01:42:29.239 some towards the ladder, and that's gonna cause tensions, but 1799 01:42:30.640 --> 01:42:33.239 generally it's not in anybody's interests, you know, to wage 1800 01:42:33.279 --> 01:42:37.039 bloody civil wars. And I think by necessity, particularly in America, 1801 01:42:37.479 --> 01:42:43.199 it becomes poor, you know, kind of uh, pragmatism is 1802 01:42:43.199 --> 01:42:47.359 gonna carry the day, you know, but just in practical terms, 1803 01:42:47.880 --> 01:42:50.960 you know, you're not gonna you know, like twitter years 1804 01:42:51.000 --> 01:42:53.439 from now. You know, if you do have you know, 1805 01:42:54.239 --> 01:42:57.239 the geographic division is gonna isn't gonna be between you know, 1806 01:42:57.359 --> 01:42:59.439 like the old North and the Old South. But there's 1807 01:42:59.439 --> 01:43:02.000 gonna be some of the same kind of tendencies that 1808 01:43:02.199 --> 01:43:06.199 you know, cause like a political and and and sociological 1809 01:43:06.239 --> 01:43:09.439 class between them. But you're not You're not gonna You're 1810 01:43:09.439 --> 01:43:11.079 not gonna have this regime that's kind of got like 1811 01:43:11.199 --> 01:43:14.000 endless that that's got kind of like a that's got 1812 01:43:14.000 --> 01:43:16.960 bottomless pockets, you know, uh, and the ability to just 1813 01:43:17.039 --> 01:43:21.800 kind of like you know, martial unprecedented productive capabilities to 1814 01:43:21.880 --> 01:43:24.880 like wage war and dominate you know, anybody you wants. 1815 01:43:24.920 --> 01:43:27.960 Some of the that's not going to exist anymore. You know. 1816 01:43:29.000 --> 01:43:31.680 That'side the fact that that's really kind of self defeating 1817 01:43:31.760 --> 01:43:35.680 as a as as a as a course to you know, 1818 01:43:35.720 --> 01:43:40.479 to unite the country in some sort of in some 1819 01:43:40.520 --> 01:43:44.479 sort of a unitary political culture under a single sovereign. 1820 01:43:44.880 --> 01:43:46.479 I mean that was possible in the War between the 1821 01:43:46.520 --> 01:43:52.439 States for kind of complicated reasons, but it's also you know, 1822 01:43:52.479 --> 01:43:55.199 the the war win the States shouldn't happen in the 1823 01:43:55.239 --> 01:43:57.199 first place. I mean, I don't know, I don't know 1824 01:43:57.239 --> 01:43:59.560 if there's anyo a civil war discussion, but it my 1825 01:43:59.600 --> 01:44:01.439 point is, like I'm not it's there's not some looking 1826 01:44:01.479 --> 01:44:04.359 evident ability that you know, absent these kinds of a 1827 01:44:05.760 --> 01:44:09.119 because of the alien elements that I just talked about. 1828 01:44:10.439 --> 01:44:13.560 You know, we're literally attacking the body politic and absent 1829 01:44:13.680 --> 01:44:17.039 this kind of obsolescent and very corrupt regime. You know, 1830 01:44:17.199 --> 01:44:20.119 morally materially that's kind of desperately trying to cling to power. 1831 01:44:20.520 --> 01:44:22.560 I don't see Americans just kind of like going to 1832 01:44:22.600 --> 01:44:24.399 the rifle to kill each other as a matter of 1833 01:44:24.399 --> 01:44:28.680 first recourse. You know, generally these things can be resolved. 1834 01:44:28.800 --> 01:44:31.800 You know. It's and I may be wrong, but I 1835 01:44:32.000 --> 01:44:34.039 I don't think I'm overly optimistic. I mean, I am 1836 01:44:34.159 --> 01:44:39.159 like a basically a gloomy Angle six And Calvin is 1837 01:44:39.239 --> 01:44:41.680 kind of dude. I don't think anybody accuse me of 1838 01:44:41.720 --> 01:44:44.760 being some like optimist Pollyanna who says everything's gonna be 1839 01:44:44.760 --> 01:44:47.439 all right all the time. But I don't. I don't 1840 01:44:47.520 --> 01:44:50.880 agree with guys like Thomas Chitthham and who he he. 1841 01:44:50.880 --> 01:44:52.640 He is a fascinating guy, and he wrote some great 1842 01:44:52.680 --> 01:44:56.439 stuff in the nineties and it's like Civil War two paradigm, 1843 01:44:56.520 --> 01:44:58.319 Like he literally wrote a book called Civil War two. 1844 01:44:58.359 --> 01:45:00.760 It was I'm sure some of the fellows are familiar with. 1845 01:45:01.199 --> 01:45:03.600 I mean, like I'm an old guy, so I'm familiar 1846 01:45:03.640 --> 01:45:05.199 with that. I read it when I was like sixteen. 1847 01:45:05.960 --> 01:45:09.439 But the kind of ethnic confleet he talks about, yeah, 1848 01:45:09.520 --> 01:45:12.520 I don't doubt that that that's pretty possible. And it's 1849 01:45:12.600 --> 01:45:16.199 unfortunately in some places that's underway, right. 1850 01:45:16.640 --> 01:45:24.199 But Pierce even yeah, Pierce the same everything. A lot 1851 01:45:24.239 --> 01:45:29.920 of that talk was in and around the militia movement 1852 01:45:30.119 --> 01:45:33.520 of you know, the late eighties and nineties that Clinton 1853 01:45:33.600 --> 01:45:34.520 declared war. 1854 01:45:34.359 --> 01:45:38.640 On Yeah, the the nineties were, the nineties were wild 1855 01:45:38.760 --> 01:45:41.800 times and and mostly in good and bad ways, mostly 1856 01:45:41.880 --> 01:45:45.159 bad ways. And yeah, that I do. I mean, don't 1857 01:45:45.159 --> 01:45:48.439 get me wrong, Like there's definitely I can definitely see 1858 01:45:48.720 --> 01:45:52.520 you know, like like eighty years from or whatever, you know, 1859 01:45:52.560 --> 01:45:56.119 a place like Detroit or a place like Westside Chicago. 1860 01:45:56.439 --> 01:45:58.800 You know, basically something like gangster world words like on 1861 01:45:58.920 --> 01:46:00.840 the cops, like you're not the law here, like we're 1862 01:46:00.880 --> 01:46:03.880 the law here, and like what we say goes and 1863 01:46:03.920 --> 01:46:07.119 you know, where the Lord King is sovereign and them 1864 01:46:07.159 --> 01:46:09.520 being kind of like a periodic war with like Blackwater 1865 01:46:09.640 --> 01:46:12.520 Tights who, owing to some interest for another you know, 1866 01:46:12.560 --> 01:46:17.880 are being hired by uh, you know, either wealthy private 1867 01:46:17.920 --> 01:46:21.359 agents or by what remains of you know, the the 1868 01:46:21.399 --> 01:46:24.279 seate of sovereign government in the state and and like 1869 01:46:24.720 --> 01:46:26.840 and going to war with these people in the localized 1870 01:46:26.840 --> 01:46:29.439 ways or something where I can see like militia type guys, 1871 01:46:30.800 --> 01:46:32.840 you know, pulling like what the Arian nations did and 1872 01:46:32.880 --> 01:46:36.159 saying like, look like we're seceding because you know, we're 1873 01:46:36.199 --> 01:46:38.319 like you know, we're like the Arian Community of Christ 1874 01:46:38.359 --> 01:46:40.319 And if you're not white, you're not right. And if 1875 01:46:40.319 --> 01:46:42.199 you're a fed, you're fucking dead. So like you're not 1876 01:46:42.239 --> 01:46:44.039 gonna you know, you're not gonna fuck with our like 1877 01:46:44.119 --> 01:46:47.960 municipality and the government just being like, well, we're not 1878 01:46:48.000 --> 01:46:50.239 gonna like we're not gonna fight some like endless war 1879 01:46:50.279 --> 01:46:51.800 with these people. We're not gonna kill them all, so 1880 01:46:51.840 --> 01:46:54.159 it's like leave them alone like stuff like that. I 1881 01:46:54.239 --> 01:46:58.479 definitely see happening. I don't see, like you know, I 1882 01:46:58.680 --> 01:47:00.960 don't I don't see you know, like years from now 1883 01:47:01.439 --> 01:47:05.479 some kind of uprising some kind of simultaneous uprising and 1884 01:47:05.640 --> 01:47:08.439 kind of like the white underclass against you know, the regime, 1885 01:47:08.520 --> 01:47:11.359 and like blacks against the man, and like immigrants who 1886 01:47:11.439 --> 01:47:14.319 like you know, want to create like you know, Oslon 1887 01:47:14.399 --> 01:47:16.520 and like the Southwest. I just don't see that happening. 1888 01:47:17.640 --> 01:47:21.199 It's not likely. And Shilham was Sham was a dude 1889 01:47:21.279 --> 01:47:24.239 born in the forties who who's sort of experienced, was 1890 01:47:24.279 --> 01:47:26.800 in was in Vietnam, And I mean, I totally get that. 1891 01:47:26.920 --> 01:47:28.960 And I got a lot of respect for dudes like that, 1892 01:47:30.479 --> 01:47:32.199 you know. And then I mean that's my day's generation, 1893 01:47:32.399 --> 01:47:34.319 you know, And I I got huge respect from my 1894 01:47:34.399 --> 01:47:38.039 dad as in all of them, guys. I'm not saying 1895 01:47:38.119 --> 01:47:40.520 like they got stupid ideas at all. What I'm saying 1896 01:47:40.600 --> 01:47:43.199 is like their world views, like we was colored by that. 1897 01:47:43.880 --> 01:47:46.159 And I don't have a crystal ball. I'm not some 1898 01:47:46.239 --> 01:47:49.039 kind of like augur. But I do think I'm pretty 1899 01:47:49.159 --> 01:47:54.920 good and kind of discerning basic the basic trajectory of 1900 01:47:54.920 --> 01:47:58.520 of political events, you know, like in every basic sense. Okay, 1901 01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:03.119 I think that's probably people read my content. Frankly, you know, 1902 01:48:03.159 --> 01:48:05.119 it's not It's not because I'm a comediant or because 1903 01:48:05.239 --> 01:48:11.199 like I'm a a great knuckle. But you know, I 1904 01:48:11.239 --> 01:48:12.880 and yeah and plus two. I'll turn it back to 1905 01:48:12.880 --> 01:48:14.520 you in a minute. I'm sorry for rambling, but the 1906 01:48:16.319 --> 01:48:18.640 you know frankly too. And I mean, I recognize this 1907 01:48:18.680 --> 01:48:22.239 because it's my culture, and I totally I've got a 1908 01:48:22.239 --> 01:48:26.279 problem acknowledging it. The tendency to like apot not just escatological, 1909 01:48:26.399 --> 01:48:29.399 but like apocalyptic thinking in America, you know, and there's 1910 01:48:29.399 --> 01:48:32.319 an idea that there's gonna there's always gonna be a 1911 01:48:32.399 --> 01:48:35.640 day Losi and there's gonna be there, there's gonna be uh, 1912 01:48:36.119 --> 01:48:39.479 you know, there's always gonna be something like punctuated event 1913 01:48:39.520 --> 01:48:41.920 that brings everything down. You know, there's gonna be you know, 1914 01:48:42.039 --> 01:48:45.279 some kind of like massic, some like extinction level event. Honestly, 1915 01:48:45.319 --> 01:48:48.239 that's like when underlies the global warming bullshit. It's like 1916 01:48:48.239 --> 01:48:51.000 the weird old basic kind of like uh, it's it's 1917 01:48:51.000 --> 01:48:52.800 like a it's it's kind of like the loser, basic, 1918 01:48:52.800 --> 01:48:55.920 bougie version of it. But I mean that's that's why 1919 01:48:55.960 --> 01:48:58.119 it's weird to hear like Europeans parodic, because it's not 1920 01:48:58.119 --> 01:49:01.119 a European thing, that's like America thing, you know, And 1921 01:49:01.840 --> 01:49:05.119 but on our sidety I mean even intelligent guys and 1922 01:49:05.199 --> 01:49:07.720 some ladies you know, who don't ascribe to that kind 1923 01:49:07.720 --> 01:49:09.720 of nonsense. And there's even kind of cogs and the 1924 01:49:09.800 --> 01:49:13.840 tendency I talk about like anthropologically, they still like they've 1925 01:49:13.840 --> 01:49:16.000 got this kind of like instinctive tendency to think in 1926 01:49:16.079 --> 01:49:20.359 terms of like punctuated equilibrium. I'm in in in historical 1927 01:49:20.399 --> 01:49:24.199 events and like apocalyptic stuff like oh, you know, just 1928 01:49:24.239 --> 01:49:26.399 one day, everything's gonna come down, or there's gonna be 1929 01:49:26.399 --> 01:49:29.119 a race war, or like infrastructure is just gonna go 1930 01:49:29.199 --> 01:49:31.920 belly up and we're not gonna clean water, Like it's 1931 01:49:31.960 --> 01:49:34.560 not gonna happen. You know, It's it's gonna be a 1932 01:49:34.560 --> 01:49:37.720 death by a thousand cuts, and it's gonna be like 1933 01:49:37.840 --> 01:49:40.399 it's gonna be a couple hundred years, Like a Mary's 1934 01:49:40.399 --> 01:49:42.359 gonna exist in some form or another for a couple 1935 01:49:42.439 --> 01:49:45.439 hundred years. Yet, you know, even even if it's just 1936 01:49:45.479 --> 01:49:47.840 like in even if even if twitter years now, it's 1937 01:49:47.920 --> 01:49:49.680 just like in name only kind of like the last 1938 01:49:49.720 --> 01:49:52.279 day is the Holy Roman Empire or something, but it's 1939 01:49:52.279 --> 01:49:54.640 it's going to exist in some sense, and there's gonna 1940 01:49:54.640 --> 01:49:56.960 be a guy who's identified as President of the United 1941 01:49:56.960 --> 01:49:59.319 States like, what kind of cloud he has, what kind 1942 01:49:59.319 --> 01:50:04.479 of ability he as raised army? I mean, that's that's 1943 01:50:04.520 --> 01:50:09.520 a different question, but I firmly believe that. But yeah, 1944 01:50:09.600 --> 01:50:12.239 go ahead. I'm sorry. I don't mean to monopolize the conversation. 1945 01:50:13.600 --> 01:50:15.960 I want everyone to know that this ad break is 1946 01:50:16.039 --> 01:50:18.760 personal to me because soon as I found out about 1947 01:50:18.760 --> 01:50:22.520 crowd health, I became a member. We know the insurance 1948 01:50:22.600 --> 01:50:25.720 model's broken. With crowd health, you can see any doctor 1949 01:50:25.760 --> 01:50:30.840 you want, no deductibles, exclusions, or copays. You just pay 1950 01:50:30.880 --> 01:50:34.399 the first five hundred dollars of any healthcare event, and 1951 01:50:34.439 --> 01:50:37.079 the crowd health community takes care of the rest. 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That's join 1962 01:51:14.159 --> 01:51:20.359 crowdhealth dot com promo code peteq. Crowdhealth is not health insurance. 1963 01:51:20.560 --> 01:51:23.840 It's a totally different way of paying for healthcare. Terms 1964 01:51:23.880 --> 01:51:28.000 and conditions may apply. No, we can start. We can 1965 01:51:28.039 --> 01:51:30.880 start an argument on when the when the Roman Empire 1966 01:51:30.920 --> 01:51:35.800 started to fall. I mean, some people will say, you 1967 01:51:35.880 --> 01:51:39.359 know what, you know what Caesar and with the first Caesar. 1968 01:51:39.520 --> 01:51:42.279 But okay, well here's something I wanted to bring up. 1969 01:51:42.279 --> 01:51:47.600 So this book actually talks about violence. It has violence 1970 01:51:47.760 --> 01:51:52.359 in the in the title, but he also he also 1971 01:51:52.439 --> 01:51:55.600 talks about social change. He also talks about political change. 1972 01:51:55.800 --> 01:51:59.119 And from everything you've just said, is the change that 1973 01:51:59.159 --> 01:52:04.000 would happen in our culture where we were born, where 1974 01:52:04.039 --> 01:52:07.239 we are, I don't think any of us are. Most 1975 01:52:07.239 --> 01:52:09.800 of us aren't planning on going anywhere else. Is going 1976 01:52:09.840 --> 01:52:13.039 to be social and is going to be political, because 1977 01:52:13.960 --> 01:52:18.840 that's where sure, if you go back to the War 1978 01:52:18.920 --> 01:52:22.399 between the States, the War of Northern Aggression, then you 1979 01:52:22.439 --> 01:52:24.560 can talk about violence, and you can talk about an 1980 01:52:24.560 --> 01:52:28.319 invasion of a foreign land, but really what started to 1981 01:52:28.359 --> 01:52:33.800 bring down what we have now was social and political 1982 01:52:33.880 --> 01:52:39.600 and it was by you mentioned the term culture distortion, 1983 01:52:40.239 --> 01:52:45.000 invoking Yaki and invoking Spangler. That's what has to be 1984 01:52:45.079 --> 01:52:48.720 won back. And I really think, and people are probably 1985 01:52:48.800 --> 01:52:51.000 sick of hearing me say this over and over again, 1986 01:52:51.319 --> 01:52:53.920 that that's going to have to start at the most 1987 01:52:53.960 --> 01:52:57.319 local level, and probably the most local level is in 1988 01:52:57.399 --> 01:53:00.640 the home and then spreading out to community and going 1989 01:53:00.840 --> 01:53:02.159 forward like that like that. 1990 01:53:02.279 --> 01:53:04.840 Oh yeah, yeah, definitely. And that's one of the things. 1991 01:53:04.920 --> 01:53:07.199 I mean that that's a Surrealian point too, you know, 1992 01:53:07.359 --> 01:53:09.199 one of the things one of the reasons he was 1993 01:53:09.319 --> 01:53:11.399 hung up on Xenophon and one of the reasons why 1994 01:53:11.720 --> 01:53:13.680 you know, he talked about, you know, the home being 1995 01:53:13.760 --> 01:53:16.640 kind of like the school of command, you know, where 1996 01:53:16.880 --> 01:53:19.520 where like the patriarch, you know, learns how to, you know, 1997 01:53:19.520 --> 01:53:21.720 how to how to rule over his wife and children 1998 01:53:22.000 --> 01:53:24.840 in a firm way, but in an equitable way. You know. 1999 01:53:24.920 --> 01:53:27.279 That's that's how that that's where women learn, you know, 2000 01:53:27.359 --> 01:53:29.399 how to like how to like relate to men and 2001 01:53:29.439 --> 01:53:32.079 stuff and like hold down the household. And women do that. 2002 01:53:32.159 --> 01:53:34.640 You know, believe that, you know, that's not some conceit, 2003 01:53:34.680 --> 01:53:36.800 That's very true. So I don't like people mean down 2004 01:53:36.840 --> 01:53:40.520 at females, that's where kids like learn you know, how 2005 01:53:40.720 --> 01:53:42.680 how how to grow up into adult men and women, 2006 01:53:43.159 --> 01:53:46.720 you know, and uh and and you know and and 2007 01:53:46.720 --> 01:53:48.520 and the nature of like what you know, what is 2008 01:53:48.760 --> 01:53:52.640 just and the parameters of obedience like within within you know, 2009 01:53:52.680 --> 01:53:55.600 within that kind of justice paradigm of command and obedience. 2010 01:53:57.239 --> 01:54:01.279 And that's why you know this in a concrete engagement 2011 01:54:02.000 --> 01:54:05.439 with with what we consider the body politic I mean 2012 01:54:05.479 --> 01:54:09.319 in Sir Alzheimer, now, I mean, uh as the body 2013 01:54:09.319 --> 01:54:12.119 politic and anthem has consisted of of like every liked 2014 01:54:12.119 --> 01:54:15.279 a household, you know, and uh, some of these men 2015 01:54:15.319 --> 01:54:17.079 were rich and some of them were not so rich. 2016 01:54:17.199 --> 01:54:19.399 But you know, they all went to war together. They 2017 01:54:19.439 --> 01:54:22.119 all told the soil together. You know, they all they 2018 01:54:22.159 --> 01:54:25.319 all participated in the assembly together. Like this idea of 2019 01:54:26.880 --> 01:54:31.079 you know, hyper specialization and dividing people into like you know, 2020 01:54:31.840 --> 01:54:35.840 basically neglecy, dividing people's functions within the same kind of caste, 2021 01:54:36.640 --> 01:54:40.039 that's that's a recipe that that's that's a recipe for 2022 01:54:40.119 --> 01:54:43.159 self destruction, among other things. Because that's Therrel's point is, like, well, 2023 01:54:43.199 --> 01:54:46.399 then you have this basically parasitic cast of politicians who, 2024 01:54:46.439 --> 01:54:49.760 even if they themselves aren't aren't wealthy by birth, you know, 2025 01:54:49.800 --> 01:54:53.439 they they basically become like the clients of wealthy patrons 2026 01:54:53.600 --> 01:54:55.760 and aside of everything else that's wrong with that, Like 2027 01:54:55.800 --> 01:54:58.439 these guys don't work, they don't do anything, you know, 2028 01:54:58.439 --> 01:55:01.479 they're like this, there's this weird leisured class that by 2029 01:55:01.560 --> 01:55:04.359 nature's kind of decadences, you know, that develops resentments of 2030 01:55:04.399 --> 01:55:07.800 the Yalemen ry and vice versa. And uh. In turn, 2031 01:55:08.079 --> 01:55:13.359 they're dependent upon these kinds of intellectuals and financers, who, 2032 01:55:13.399 --> 01:55:16.159 in Sorel's view like have more are like in bed 2033 01:55:16.199 --> 01:55:19.960 together like verbially, you know, and they and you know, 2034 01:55:21.119 --> 01:55:24.079 these guys view themselves as they they you know, they've 2035 01:55:24.359 --> 01:55:26.359 they've got their own kind of like resentment and fear 2036 01:55:26.399 --> 01:55:29.319 of like the Yaleman re or the proletariat like in 2037 01:55:29.399 --> 01:55:32.000 Cerel's at Bach. You know, but they themselves are as 2038 01:55:32.000 --> 01:55:36.479 parasitic as like the political caste, and just as uh 2039 01:55:36.560 --> 01:55:39.479 and just as prone to intrigues, you know, because they're 2040 01:55:39.720 --> 01:55:43.000 they're they're their situation is always tenuous, you know, because 2041 01:55:43.000 --> 01:55:47.840 they're they're they're they're they're they're by definition they're parasitic, 2042 01:55:48.039 --> 01:55:53.279 you know, they they they rely upon the willingness of uh, 2043 01:55:54.039 --> 01:55:57.359 of the two other factions they just identified to not 2044 01:55:57.439 --> 01:56:00.399 just tolerate them, but to sustain them and everything else aside. 2045 01:56:00.439 --> 01:56:02.920 Like even if you had a totally like homogenous population, 2046 01:56:03.359 --> 01:56:05.760 even if at least nominally there was some kind of 2047 01:56:05.760 --> 01:56:09.119 common culture and common religion like seal religion and like 2048 01:56:09.119 --> 01:56:11.800 ethics in common, that that's still a create all kinds 2049 01:56:11.840 --> 01:56:15.279 of weird pathologies, and it would institutionalize social divisions in 2050 01:56:15.319 --> 01:56:20.600 ways that not that not just their counterproductive, you know, 2051 01:56:20.680 --> 01:56:23.720 until like a virtual society, even just in practical terms, 2052 01:56:23.760 --> 01:56:27.119 like what you don't institutionalize social divisions for its own 2053 01:56:27.199 --> 01:56:31.039 sake because some endless conversation and endless argument and endless 2054 01:56:31.079 --> 01:56:34.199 contention is some marvelous thing from which we all benefits. 2055 01:56:34.720 --> 01:56:37.479 That was that was called Schmid's point about parliamentarism. My 2056 01:56:37.520 --> 01:56:41.920 wife's dysfunctional, Like on his face, it's there's there's something 2057 01:56:42.039 --> 01:56:47.119 very ethological about it. I don't mean insinuate these kinds 2058 01:56:47.159 --> 01:56:50.680 of psychological terms in the discussion, but I can't think 2059 01:56:50.680 --> 01:56:53.079 of a better way to describe it, because it is 2060 01:56:53.199 --> 01:56:59.239 it's it's it's uh, it's a maladaptive uh conceived of 2061 01:56:59.239 --> 01:57:01.920 of human mind. Is the pray these things. It's not 2062 01:57:02.079 --> 01:57:05.119 like practical, it's not things that exist and like you 2063 01:57:05.119 --> 01:57:07.239 know in kind of political reality that we just come 2064 01:57:07.319 --> 01:57:09.680 upon and have to address. These things are very much 2065 01:57:09.680 --> 01:57:13.159 cultivated and created and it's very artificial, you know what 2066 01:57:13.159 --> 01:57:18.680 I mean you see this today, I mean even uh, 2067 01:57:19.279 --> 01:57:21.720 there's you know these like even if you took away 2068 01:57:21.760 --> 01:57:24.760 the culture distortion and aspect like look like this, look 2069 01:57:24.880 --> 01:57:28.279 like this infotainment garbage. It's job basically is the kind 2070 01:57:28.279 --> 01:57:32.479 of like is a manufacture like Widge issues us like 2071 01:57:32.520 --> 01:57:35.319 make people upset about you know, like this isn't stuff 2072 01:57:35.319 --> 01:57:39.000 that's like emerging when people when people's actual lives or 2073 01:57:39.039 --> 01:57:41.880 if this isn't stuff that you know, people would uh 2074 01:57:42.039 --> 01:57:45.560 people would identify as as as being something that you know, 2075 01:57:45.640 --> 01:57:49.600 warning their attention and some like oncological capacity. It's like 2076 01:57:49.640 --> 01:57:53.600 literally just like confabulated and you know, because people are like, uh, 2077 01:57:54.279 --> 01:57:56.720 you know, even in the best of times, you know, 2078 01:57:56.880 --> 01:57:59.399 like common people or you know, deal with a lot 2079 01:57:59.439 --> 01:58:04.720 of certain and like anxiety uh derived therein you know 2080 01:58:04.800 --> 01:58:07.439 that that's that's kind of formless, you know, something that's 2081 01:58:07.479 --> 01:58:10.039 just this kind of human condition, you know, when they're 2082 01:58:10.079 --> 01:58:13.199 plugged into figuratively and literally like plugged into some kind 2083 01:58:13.239 --> 01:58:16.560 of media organ twenty or seven. You know, one of 2084 01:58:16.600 --> 01:58:19.439 the things that satisfies or one of like the needs 2085 01:58:19.439 --> 01:58:22.920 of fulfills like psychologically and tell them cope with things 2086 01:58:23.000 --> 01:58:26.359 is like giving form to these kinds of amorphous like 2087 01:58:26.479 --> 01:58:31.479 negative feelings and anxieties and so it it's it's it's 2088 01:58:31.520 --> 01:58:33.359 kind of like a these thing are kind of like 2089 01:58:33.359 --> 01:58:38.199 permanently situated to be, you know, like manipulated by a 2090 01:58:38.640 --> 01:58:42.600 sort of idol like parasite political cast whose only real 2091 01:58:42.680 --> 01:58:45.159 role is to kind of is to kind of create 2092 01:58:45.359 --> 01:58:51.600 like you know, institutionalized grievance structures, if that makes any sense. 2093 01:58:51.680 --> 01:58:53.600 And I mean, you know, obviously a high tech and 2094 01:58:53.720 --> 01:58:56.920 like you know, media like changes all that. I mean, 2095 01:58:56.960 --> 01:58:59.520 even like radioven for TV, like visual media is a 2096 01:58:59.600 --> 01:59:03.800 huge game changer. But even like radio, like the ability 2097 01:59:03.800 --> 01:59:06.319 to just like literally brought broad being able to broadcast 2098 01:59:06.359 --> 01:59:09.560 any capacity like coast to coast or like across the 2099 01:59:09.560 --> 01:59:12.479 European continent, you know, from like Paris to like Prague, 2100 01:59:12.920 --> 01:59:15.239 like that was that was a game changer, you know, 2101 01:59:15.399 --> 01:59:20.439 for the reasons I just stated, and that uh that 2102 01:59:20.439 --> 01:59:24.840 that's one of the reasons why people ask like why 2103 01:59:25.880 --> 01:59:28.000 why why it's kind of like faux democracy or it's 2104 01:59:28.079 --> 01:59:31.479 kind of like institutionalized uh, or it's kind of like 2105 01:59:31.520 --> 01:59:38.079 institutionalized grievance uh structure. I just identified, like why, why 2106 01:59:38.159 --> 01:59:41.520 why it seems to like acciomatically coexist with, you know, 2107 01:59:41.560 --> 01:59:44.000 like the modern like managerial state. Well, I mean the 2108 01:59:44.039 --> 01:59:46.039 answer is media. I mean, I don't mean a time 2109 01:59:46.079 --> 01:59:48.640 of reductionists, but I I think i've I think I've 2110 01:59:48.680 --> 01:59:51.560 invoked the quote before from Natural Born Killers. I really 2111 01:59:51.600 --> 01:59:55.479 like National Born Killers. It's a really dope movie, and 2112 01:59:55.520 --> 01:59:57.640 I I try and turn people onto it because it's 2113 01:59:57.640 --> 02:00:01.359 not it's not just like gross Quentin Tarantino's stuff or 2114 02:00:01.520 --> 02:00:05.520 like Oliver Stone like preachy stuff. It's really really insightful 2115 02:00:05.600 --> 02:00:09.560 and it's really subversive in some ways. But the guy 2116 02:00:09.600 --> 02:00:14.359 who's uh like the Stark Weather uh like Diliger character, 2117 02:00:14.439 --> 02:00:17.039 you know, Woody Harrelson, when he's talking like the media guy, 2118 02:00:17.079 --> 02:00:19.279 he's like, you know, he's like, he's like media is 2119 02:00:19.319 --> 02:00:21.680 like the weather, but it's man made. Weather is this 2120 02:00:21.800 --> 02:00:24.000 thing you're immersed in and you don't even you don't 2121 02:00:24.000 --> 02:00:26.079 even like notice it. I said, I find myself like 2122 02:00:26.159 --> 02:00:28.960 not really noticing it. I mean, I discern like what 2123 02:00:28.960 --> 02:00:31.840 what what's not people's minds and kind of like you like, 2124 02:00:32.000 --> 02:00:35.279 what's something like the Floyd Craziness George Floyd Crasiness was 2125 02:00:35.399 --> 02:00:37.640 jumping off. I would discern like this is what people 2126 02:00:37.680 --> 02:00:40.399 are thinking about. But it's like I don't even like 2127 02:00:40.640 --> 02:00:42.840 I don't even always like detect Immediately they're like, well, 2128 02:00:42.920 --> 02:00:45.960 that's that's the narrative that's being created by what, you know, 2129 02:00:46.039 --> 02:00:48.279 the media they're immersed in, because they're just like take 2130 02:00:48.359 --> 02:00:51.199 for granted, you know, and I uh and and speaking 2131 02:00:51.239 --> 02:00:54.079 of zeitgeys the uh you know, like the day of 2132 02:00:54.159 --> 02:00:57.279 day uh, like the day day fixations of people like 2133 02:00:57.319 --> 02:01:00.159 within that like brought a paradigm like that that comes 2134 02:01:00.199 --> 02:01:02.640 one hundred percent from media. I mean it plays upon 2135 02:01:02.920 --> 02:01:06.840 like things like intrinsic to mind, you know, like symbolically 2136 02:01:07.000 --> 02:01:10.279 and and things really the impulse and appetite and stuff 2137 02:01:10.319 --> 02:01:13.159 and symbols that are kind of universally resonant in like 2138 02:01:13.239 --> 02:01:16.279 most basic terms, but in terms of the actual narrative, 2139 02:01:16.399 --> 02:01:19.239 like the concrete particulars like of those narratives and of 2140 02:01:19.279 --> 02:01:23.159 like those symbols and like what form they take those 2141 02:01:23.239 --> 02:01:29.039 totems rare Like that's one hundred percent created by uh by, 2142 02:01:29.840 --> 02:01:32.800 by architects of media. And I mean that sounds conspiratorial 2143 02:01:32.840 --> 02:01:35.600 to people. Whatever I mean, I'm main a sociological observation. 2144 02:01:36.359 --> 02:01:43.880 I mean, it's not it's not conspiratorial. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2145 02:01:43.880 --> 02:01:47.279 This is part two. But when I released part one, 2146 02:01:47.359 --> 02:01:49.960 the next episode I did after that was me and 2147 02:01:50.000 --> 02:01:54.039 my friend Buck writing the reading the Engineering and Consent 2148 02:01:54.119 --> 02:01:58.479 by Burne, and he wrote that in propaganda he wrote 2149 02:01:58.520 --> 02:02:01.359 in twenty in twenty twenty one, but he wrote this 2150 02:02:01.439 --> 02:02:05.039 in forty seven, and he's already radios in every house, 2151 02:02:05.119 --> 02:02:07.199 TVs are starting to go in every house, and he 2152 02:02:07.279 --> 02:02:10.359 basically says, news is what we say it is. 2153 02:02:11.359 --> 02:02:17.399 Yeah, yeah, so it's the go Aheada'm sorry. 2154 02:02:18.039 --> 02:02:23.880 Yeah, I was going to say, so two hundred years ago, 2155 02:02:24.399 --> 02:02:27.279 you had ten year olds that could run a farm, 2156 02:02:28.439 --> 02:02:32.279 and they you had a farm that people could survive on. 2157 02:02:32.399 --> 02:02:35.399 Then you have the technology, you know, the Industrial Revolution, 2158 02:02:36.239 --> 02:02:41.640 and now everyone has everyone is just comfortable enough that 2159 02:02:41.680 --> 02:02:46.039 they won't revolt, but they also have this engineering. And 2160 02:02:46.079 --> 02:02:47.640 I was going to bring this back to what I 2161 02:02:47.680 --> 02:02:51.039 was reading earlier, is when you read about these syndicalists, 2162 02:02:51.199 --> 02:02:55.680 how they want to destroy anything that's anti patriotic. Well, 2163 02:02:55.720 --> 02:02:59.279 in the process of destroying anything that's anti patriotic, you 2164 02:02:59.439 --> 02:03:03.319 have to just destroy family, you have to destroy people's religion. 2165 02:03:04.000 --> 02:03:07.720 And that's exactly what the culture disorders that we you know, 2166 02:03:07.760 --> 02:03:10.760 that we've talked about, set out to do. And it's 2167 02:03:10.840 --> 02:03:14.479 not a conspiracy theory. They wrote, you know, Burnez wrote 2168 02:03:14.479 --> 02:03:18.000 about about propaganda and that's why you have to have 2169 02:03:18.560 --> 02:03:20.840 That's why the Internet is the blessing and curse it 2170 02:03:20.920 --> 02:03:23.239 is because it puts out propaganda, but you can also 2171 02:03:23.760 --> 02:03:29.520 destroy that propaganda within minutes in real time. But you're 2172 02:03:29.640 --> 02:03:35.960 basically dealing with culture disorders who are like, Okay, if 2173 02:03:36.000 --> 02:03:39.680 we are going to have the kind of power over 2174 02:03:40.159 --> 02:03:42.399 the people that we want, if we are going to 2175 02:03:42.399 --> 02:03:45.800 be the managers over these people, we have to do 2176 02:03:45.880 --> 02:03:48.439 everything we can to destroy this. And it seems like 2177 02:03:48.520 --> 02:03:54.159 that is something clearly out of the syndicolas, the communist playbook, 2178 02:03:54.439 --> 02:03:57.159 and even today, people that I know who are the 2179 02:03:57.359 --> 02:03:59.760 you know, some of the great you know they believe 2180 02:03:59.800 --> 02:04:04.359 there fighting for freedom and liberty for the individual, don't 2181 02:04:04.399 --> 02:04:08.079 realize that they're basically on the same side as the syndicolas, 2182 02:04:08.520 --> 02:04:11.880 who want to destroy every bit of hierarchy. And as 2183 02:04:11.920 --> 02:04:18.720 soon as you destroy hierarchy, you are word you're where 2184 02:04:18.720 --> 02:04:21.159 we where we are now, you're in menagerialism. 2185 02:04:22.159 --> 02:04:24.840 Well yeah, like I said, the problem is that there's 2186 02:04:24.880 --> 02:04:29.239 a counterfeit hierarchy that is a cross purposes with virtue 2187 02:04:29.399 --> 02:04:33.279 and logos. There's the problem. The problem isn't that, you know, 2188 02:04:33.359 --> 02:04:37.800 there's these distinctions exist in the first place, and structural terms, 2189 02:04:37.840 --> 02:04:41.279 I mean in the legitimate ways and like organic ways 2190 02:04:41.279 --> 02:04:45.560 that curs spontaneously. There's also the sendingolists who were on 2191 02:04:45.600 --> 02:04:48.600 the right and some of these guys uh like a 2192 02:04:48.600 --> 02:04:50.520 lot of these guys actually far really are in Spain 2193 02:04:50.880 --> 02:04:53.479 on the right, I mean, you know, against the Reds. 2194 02:04:53.479 --> 02:04:56.600 But they and you found this with with with the 2195 02:04:56.720 --> 02:05:02.880 Rohm fiction two you know in in uh, in the 2196 02:05:03.279 --> 02:05:08.560 in the Reich, Uh there's a there's a type of 2197 02:05:08.640 --> 02:05:13.079 man who like really holds a communist and contempt not 2198 02:05:13.199 --> 02:05:16.159 just for the kind of more obvious reasons, but because 2199 02:05:16.159 --> 02:05:18.760 communism really is just promises. It's kind of like telluric 2200 02:05:18.880 --> 02:05:23.960 utopia and it doesn't just like rob kind of the 2201 02:05:24.520 --> 02:05:27.680 you know, our living environment, in our our conceptual space 2202 02:05:28.000 --> 02:05:31.720 of anything beautiful, edifying or cool, frankly for if you'll 2203 02:05:31.720 --> 02:05:36.359 forgive the kind of colloquialism. But it also at the 2204 02:05:36.439 --> 02:05:38.800 end of the day, it's not really heroic because it's 2205 02:05:38.800 --> 02:05:41.880 just saying essentially, well, you know, technology is gonna usher 2206 02:05:41.920 --> 02:05:45.199 in this kind of garden of eating of uh of 2207 02:05:45.239 --> 02:05:47.800 like productive surplus. You know, we're all gonna have like 2208 02:05:47.840 --> 02:05:50.199 all the cargo we want, and you know we can 2209 02:05:50.359 --> 02:05:51.760 we can like eat as much as we want and 2210 02:05:51.880 --> 02:05:53.439 like sit around as most as we want, and it's 2211 02:05:53.479 --> 02:05:56.640 gonna be great, you know. And uh, the cynical is 2212 02:05:57.000 --> 02:05:59.560 you know, part of the reverence for violence and kind 2213 02:05:59.560 --> 02:06:03.000 of like they're the sorel is. Like, no, the problem 2214 02:06:03.000 --> 02:06:05.640 with communism is that it's just as decadent as that is, 2215 02:06:06.039 --> 02:06:10.800 you know, the as the as the bourgeois worldview, you know. 2216 02:06:10.880 --> 02:06:12.920 And the function of violence is that, you know, it 2217 02:06:13.000 --> 02:06:15.800 forces man to be engaged with mortality and and with 2218 02:06:16.239 --> 02:06:18.439 you know, at least potentially heroic action and like a 2219 02:06:18.560 --> 02:06:21.640 data day sense. You know, now that can go too 2220 02:06:21.720 --> 02:06:25.399 far and you get like gangster as dudes as well 2221 02:06:25.399 --> 02:06:27.399 as cycle passed, as well as some guys who are 2222 02:06:27.399 --> 02:06:31.359 just kind of like angry and misguided for various reasons. 2223 02:06:31.600 --> 02:06:33.760 You know they take that to mean like, well, there's 2224 02:06:33.760 --> 02:06:35.479 just kind of like an endless mersh to like burn 2225 02:06:35.560 --> 02:06:38.319 things the fuck down and like fuck people up. And 2226 02:06:38.439 --> 02:06:40.720 like the most kind of pure iteration of that right 2227 02:06:40.760 --> 02:06:43.479 now is like isis or whatever isis is like morphing 2228 02:06:43.520 --> 02:06:47.760 and do currently Okay, you know what you have then 2229 02:06:47.840 --> 02:06:50.199 is you have like a bunch of mongols. Okay, I 2230 02:06:50.239 --> 02:06:53.640 mean that and that's not. I mean's all kinds of 2231 02:06:53.680 --> 02:06:56.039 reasons why that's not. I'm sure some guys are can 2232 02:06:56.039 --> 02:06:57.880 saying the comments and being like a pussy or something. 2233 02:06:57.880 --> 02:07:01.239 It's like, okay, whatever, But I I don't think. I 2234 02:07:01.279 --> 02:07:03.279 don't think some kind of like endless like you know, 2235 02:07:03.399 --> 02:07:07.520 mongol rampage against things we don't like. Is is is 2236 02:07:07.560 --> 02:07:11.000 the way forward? But that is like a real tendency man, 2237 02:07:11.239 --> 02:07:14.560 And that's why violence does need to be tempered with reason. 2238 02:07:15.000 --> 02:07:17.279 And I think and and Sorell does not like abandoned 2239 02:07:17.359 --> 02:07:20.039 reason or something like. That's why he's not he's not. 2240 02:07:20.199 --> 02:07:22.199 He's not not only is he not an Ichian, but 2241 02:07:22.239 --> 02:07:23.760 he's not some he was. He was not something like 2242 02:07:23.840 --> 02:07:28.239 anti rationalist. Uh you know, uh like fu Cove the 2243 02:07:28.319 --> 02:07:32.079 write or something at all, you know, I mean that's why, Uh, 2244 02:07:32.520 --> 02:07:36.239 his issue with uh, you know, is issue with Sobeerrates 2245 02:07:36.359 --> 02:07:40.479 is that, like Cyberate, he's like, wasn't serving reason, you know, rationalisms, logos, 2246 02:07:40.840 --> 02:07:44.600 you know, it's it's something entirely different. And you know 2247 02:07:44.680 --> 02:07:47.279 that's why I, like I said, I'm not an expert 2248 02:07:47.319 --> 02:07:49.600 at all in the priests of pratics as sure as hell. 2249 02:07:49.680 --> 02:07:53.399 I can't read Greek or anything like that. But I 2250 02:07:53.439 --> 02:07:55.680 do think I've got a pretty decent understanding of Cirel 2251 02:07:55.800 --> 02:07:58.760 annoying to Cerell and oing a hiag girl like I 2252 02:07:58.960 --> 02:08:02.159 read a you know, I read the fragments are Clitus 2253 02:08:02.239 --> 02:08:07.239 that I mean that do exist. You know, I spend 2254 02:08:07.239 --> 02:08:10.720 a lot of time with Xeno fun and uh, there's nothing, uh, 2255 02:08:11.239 --> 02:08:15.119 there's nothing anarchic about what Cerell posits in like a 2256 02:08:15.119 --> 02:08:17.800 coloaquial sense, you know, I mean, yeah, there's he pertacts 2257 02:08:17.800 --> 02:08:21.640 with some of the same uh, some of the same 2258 02:08:21.680 --> 02:08:25.199 intellectual heritage as like actual capital at anarchist did like 2259 02:08:25.279 --> 02:08:27.720 in his epoch. But he's not he was not at 2260 02:08:27.720 --> 02:08:29.359 all a guy like Ron. He was not all a 2261 02:08:29.399 --> 02:08:31.520 guy who you know, he's not at all some like 2262 02:08:31.560 --> 02:08:35.119 criminally minded strange person or some or some kind of 2263 02:08:35.159 --> 02:08:39.560 a Faeries outlier who you know just uh it just 2264 02:08:39.560 --> 02:08:43.279 just identified like a path to like revolutionary action. I 2265 02:08:43.319 --> 02:08:45.680 mean that's the way people have to mischaracterize him. I mean, 2266 02:08:45.720 --> 02:08:50.039 Sorell's probably uh, he's esoteric, like his whole body of 2267 02:08:50.039 --> 02:08:53.279 work is. But those that do actually have a deep 2268 02:08:53.359 --> 02:08:57.840 understanding of a twentieth century European intellectual foundations, they will 2269 02:08:57.880 --> 02:09:02.000 to very directly attack Cerell and and painted him as 2270 02:09:02.039 --> 02:09:04.359 like what I just said, like, oh, this guy was 2271 02:09:04.399 --> 02:09:06.800 like you know, he was he was, you know, he 2272 02:09:06.880 --> 02:09:09.560 was he was he was something erst Rahm type psychopath, 2273 02:09:09.640 --> 02:09:12.079 but without the without the medals and the war record 2274 02:09:12.159 --> 02:09:15.119 and and uh and the body count. And it's not 2275 02:09:15.880 --> 02:09:18.479 and that's a deliberate slander. I think it's not what 2276 02:09:18.560 --> 02:09:22.359 he was at all, you know it. Uh. So that's 2277 02:09:22.359 --> 02:09:27.159 why there's an there's an enduring the value to uh Sorell, 2278 02:09:27.479 --> 02:09:29.239 not just to the political soldier. I guess that's what 2279 02:09:29.279 --> 02:09:33.720 I'm getting. Yet I even argue like kind of hyper 2280 02:09:33.760 --> 02:09:37.279 modernists and worldly and like secularists as Cerell was. I 2281 02:09:37.399 --> 02:09:40.159 say that guys like the Iron Guard and Kadriano, who 2282 02:09:40.199 --> 02:09:42.159 probably had like more in common with Cerell and then 2283 02:09:42.159 --> 02:09:45.319 what he identified as uh, I mean the kind of 2284 02:09:45.359 --> 02:09:51.039 Eastern mysticism, uh that you know, the Romanian Orthodox guys 2285 02:09:51.079 --> 02:09:53.520 were into. Like obviously Cerell we have like no use 2286 02:09:53.560 --> 02:09:56.039 for that, but in terms of like within their own 2287 02:09:56.159 --> 02:09:58.319 kind of cultural paradigm, like what they were trying to 2288 02:09:58.359 --> 02:10:02.439 accomplish like that, the Currell probably would have like looked 2289 02:10:02.439 --> 02:10:05.600 approvingly on that more than more than any kind of 2290 02:10:06.279 --> 02:10:08.760 you know, inner inner war, like you know, radical right 2291 02:10:08.840 --> 02:10:13.079 movement at least I think so, you know, it's uh, 2292 02:10:13.279 --> 02:10:15.399 and that's all about Thetic was in Spain, like didn't 2293 02:10:15.399 --> 02:10:19.800 they didn't they didn't go anywhere like they I mean, 2294 02:10:19.880 --> 02:10:21.800 like I said, those guys said guts and they had 2295 02:10:21.880 --> 02:10:23.600 heart and they fought really hard, and I think their 2296 02:10:23.640 --> 02:10:26.159 sacrad lice should be honored. But I mean, is the 2297 02:10:26.159 --> 02:10:28.239 reason why there is there's a reason why I kind 2298 02:10:28.279 --> 02:10:31.439 of like the dullary Cudgillo Franco this this kind of 2299 02:10:31.439 --> 02:10:36.720 like reactionary uh like Cruk like went out, you know, 2300 02:10:36.720 --> 02:10:38.640 I mean, it's not It certainly wasn't because of like 2301 02:10:38.680 --> 02:10:41.079 his charisma or like his great mind or something. It 2302 02:10:41.119 --> 02:10:46.000 was because cynicalism, even if it is tempered by a 2303 02:10:46.000 --> 02:10:51.359 basic decency, like in moral terms it and isn't just 2304 02:10:51.439 --> 02:10:55.520 kind of this like orgiastic you know, path like orgiastic 2305 02:10:55.640 --> 02:10:59.600 cathartic violence or something. It does It does not like 2306 02:10:59.680 --> 02:11:02.800 lea out Asian for sustainable structures or for like a 2307 02:11:02.840 --> 02:11:05.560 new kind of like dialectic that's gonna you know, build 2308 02:11:05.600 --> 02:11:09.720 something in instead. I guess that was a point we're 2309 02:11:09.720 --> 02:11:12.319 coming up in the hour here, man, Yeah. 2310 02:11:12.199 --> 02:11:15.840 I'll get let me get one more, one more question, yes, right, 2311 02:11:16.000 --> 02:11:21.520 So when it comes to violence, is the do you 2312 02:11:21.520 --> 02:11:24.600 think the aversion to violence in the United States? Is 2313 02:11:24.600 --> 02:11:30.119 that because of our political heritage, our Protestant heritage. Do 2314 02:11:30.159 --> 02:11:32.960 you think it's because of the culture distorters coming in 2315 02:11:33.359 --> 02:11:37.920 and you know, basically making it verboten or is it 2316 02:11:37.960 --> 02:11:41.119 a combination of both. Is it the culture distorters using 2317 02:11:41.159 --> 02:11:42.920 our Protestant heritage against us? 2318 02:11:44.079 --> 02:11:46.760 America's got a very perverse relations to violence, And I 2319 02:11:46.760 --> 02:11:51.640 think about something younger kind of got into and stuff 2320 02:11:51.640 --> 02:11:54.159 like you know, and some of is like later and 2321 02:11:54.279 --> 02:11:57.319 some is like quasi science fiction novels had a lot 2322 02:11:57.359 --> 02:12:00.560 more social commentary, like like America's a place one of 2323 02:12:00.560 --> 02:12:03.399 the line people claim like they hate violence, but they 2324 02:12:03.439 --> 02:12:06.439 get all excited the idea of like people being sexually 2325 02:12:06.439 --> 02:12:09.840 tortured in prison. You know, like until recently, it was 2326 02:12:10.239 --> 02:12:14.159 you know an identified you know quote human right uh 2327 02:12:14.399 --> 02:12:18.119 to a fanticide. Like there's this there's this mass homicide 2328 02:12:18.119 --> 02:12:21.319 machine in the Pentagon that just constantly murders thousands of 2329 02:12:21.399 --> 02:12:24.680 people for the most like ambiguous reasons, you know, like 2330 02:12:24.760 --> 02:12:28.000 aus it's currently doing to Russia, and people people like 2331 02:12:28.079 --> 02:12:29.920 cheer that on, like it's just like not only like 2332 02:12:30.439 --> 02:12:32.800 there was tolerted, Like they get excited about it, but 2333 02:12:32.840 --> 02:12:34.720 then they'll turn around and to say that, like, you know, 2334 02:12:34.840 --> 02:12:38.920 violence is the most horrible thing we can imagine. They 2335 02:12:39.239 --> 02:12:41.880 you know, they but they don't don't really believe that 2336 02:12:41.920 --> 02:12:44.840 they've actually got no real respect for human life. But 2337 02:12:46.000 --> 02:12:48.399 because they don't, it's it's it's a kind of a 2338 02:12:49.359 --> 02:12:51.520 it's it's it's a kind of it's it's kind of 2339 02:12:51.520 --> 02:12:56.439 milk toast aversion to uh, actual sovereign decisionism, like coupled 2340 02:12:56.479 --> 02:12:59.119 with a kind of a couple of couple with the 2341 02:12:59.239 --> 02:13:02.279 kind of like un manly like content for human life, 2342 02:13:03.359 --> 02:13:06.319 where you know that that that kind of like that 2343 02:13:06.439 --> 02:13:11.119 that kind of identifies uh, you know, living things is 2344 02:13:11.439 --> 02:13:15.600 a commodities to be exploited, just like everything else. I 2345 02:13:15.600 --> 02:13:18.840 mean that's the way I read it. But it's also 2346 02:13:19.119 --> 02:13:21.520 too like an ethical terms the way peot the way 2347 02:13:21.520 --> 02:13:24.560 these like uh the way these uh like post war 2348 02:13:24.640 --> 02:13:28.680 liberals like gen Rawls, they're they're only the eras like 2349 02:13:28.720 --> 02:13:32.840 Jeremy Bentham and like Bentham, uh you know, the uh, 2350 02:13:33.199 --> 02:13:37.119 the Enlightenment liberals and demisterra was always uh the people 2351 02:13:37.119 --> 02:13:41.000 that Demister was always savaging correctly, I mean they they're 2352 02:13:41.239 --> 02:13:43.640 they're whole there, you hope he is a pointless society, 2353 02:13:43.880 --> 02:13:45.600 you know, like we talked about before, Like it's it's 2354 02:13:45.680 --> 02:13:48.640 it's the ideology the nursing home or like the luxurious prison. 2355 02:13:49.079 --> 02:13:51.560 It's a place where nothing ever happens. You know, there's 2356 02:13:51.600 --> 02:13:54.800 no value creation, there's no culture, there's no passion, there's 2357 02:13:54.800 --> 02:13:57.079 no love, there's no hate. It's like when people like 2358 02:13:57.159 --> 02:14:01.840 exist like fornicate or present masterbait more properly, you know, 2359 02:14:01.880 --> 02:14:05.159 like defecate and like and and and and uh and 2360 02:14:05.159 --> 02:14:08.279 and eat and sleep and like that's it. But it's 2361 02:14:08.319 --> 02:14:12.239 it's just wonderful utopia because like you know, nothing bad happen, 2362 02:14:12.319 --> 02:14:15.560 Nothing quant unquote bad happens I think it's Uh, I 2363 02:14:15.560 --> 02:14:19.560 think it's the intellectual poverty of the enlightenment project. You know. 2364 02:14:19.640 --> 02:14:23.319 Couple with that basically kind of see like like agents 2365 02:14:23.319 --> 02:14:28.479 sanility in terms of uh, in terms of the you know, 2366 02:14:28.520 --> 02:14:32.279 the the dominant bourgeoisie cultural string like dominant in terms 2367 02:14:32.279 --> 02:14:34.720 of its ability to like impose its view upon like 2368 02:14:34.760 --> 02:14:38.800 the culture as a whole. And yeah, it's obviously it's 2369 02:14:38.840 --> 02:14:42.399 you know kind of like the culture distorders. Uh, it's 2370 02:14:42.479 --> 02:14:44.720 it's a primary objective of there is the you know, 2371 02:14:44.720 --> 02:14:47.760 the kind of like defang like there the people identify 2372 02:14:47.800 --> 02:14:50.239 as like their mortal like enemies. You know. In one 2373 02:14:50.279 --> 02:14:52.359 way to do that is the is the kind of 2374 02:14:52.399 --> 02:14:55.119 you know, condition people against you know, quote unquote violence 2375 02:14:55.640 --> 02:14:57.760 or like you know, conditionally a tolerance for like all 2376 02:14:57.840 --> 02:15:02.119 kinds of horrible stuff. But you know, uh to uh, 2377 02:15:02.359 --> 02:15:04.279 you know, to condition them away from the ability to 2378 02:15:04.279 --> 02:15:07.000 like apply violence constructively or in like you know, a 2379 02:15:07.039 --> 02:15:10.039 political capacity. It's a complicated issue when it's all of 2380 02:15:10.039 --> 02:15:15.960 those things, but it's uh without those conceits though, like rationalism, 2381 02:15:16.399 --> 02:15:19.000 like rationalism can't bite anything that doesn't have some like 2382 02:15:19.079 --> 02:15:23.800 utilitarian you know, like very basically explicable purpose like within 2383 02:15:23.880 --> 02:15:26.800 its own kind of self referencing paradigm. So like why 2384 02:15:26.800 --> 02:15:29.199 would you care about anything enough to be violent? You know, 2385 02:15:29.279 --> 02:15:31.640 like why why why would you care about redemptive action? 2386 02:15:32.159 --> 02:15:34.600 Like why would you care about you know, like writing injustice? 2387 02:15:34.680 --> 02:15:37.000 Like why why would you care about heroism? Like why 2388 02:15:37.000 --> 02:15:40.079 would you care about like you know, uh, massulain honor? 2389 02:15:40.439 --> 02:15:42.319 Like none of those things matter because they don't have 2390 02:15:42.399 --> 02:15:45.199 some kind of utilitarian end that like helps us shit 2391 02:15:45.279 --> 02:15:47.439 more efficiently or like eat more food or something. 2392 02:15:49.279 --> 02:15:53.279 Yeah, they make the excuse that we have no problem 2393 02:15:53.359 --> 02:15:56.640 with violence as long as it's in it's in self defense, 2394 02:15:57.239 --> 02:16:00.560 and then they get to define what self defences. 2395 02:16:01.119 --> 02:16:03.119 Well, yeah, it's like it's it's like a two hundred 2396 02:16:03.119 --> 02:16:06.399 and fifty pound like linebacker, like beating the crap out 2397 02:16:06.439 --> 02:16:08.359 of some like eight year old lady while screaming she's 2398 02:16:08.359 --> 02:16:09.039 trying to kill me. 2399 02:16:09.199 --> 02:16:13.800 Like that's what America is, well, and that's definitely that's 2400 02:16:13.800 --> 02:16:16.199 definitely what the culture distorts are well. 2401 02:16:16.199 --> 02:16:17.800 I mean it's like it's like how, I mean, what 2402 02:16:19.199 --> 02:16:22.720 like you this idea, like vander Putin is is like 2403 02:16:22.800 --> 02:16:27.399 a deranged mediactu. He doesn't want people pointing hypersonic missiles 2404 02:16:27.399 --> 02:16:30.720 at Moscow at range of three hundred miles. I mean 2405 02:16:30.760 --> 02:16:33.479 it's like, like America is deployed in something like one 2406 02:16:33.559 --> 02:16:35.920 hundred and seventy bases across the world. What if if 2407 02:16:35.959 --> 02:16:38.520 Russia deploys on its border. It's like this is like 2408 02:16:38.840 --> 02:16:42.239 a deranged act of aggression. I mean it's like there's 2409 02:16:42.879 --> 02:16:45.680 it's one part like delusion and sinility on the part 2410 02:16:45.719 --> 02:16:49.239 of uh, you know, on the part of uh these 2411 02:16:49.319 --> 02:16:53.600 clowns in government uh since nineteen ninety two. But part 2412 02:16:53.600 --> 02:16:56.000 of it is I mean people are, yeah, people are 2413 02:16:56.040 --> 02:16:59.719 actually I think a lot of people like in these 2414 02:16:59.760 --> 02:17:02.600 kinds of managerial caadres, they're really like they have twos 2415 02:17:02.639 --> 02:17:05.079 some fucking stupid and like morally illiterate, like they really 2416 02:17:05.079 --> 02:17:07.159 believe that like how there, you're not let me punch 2417 02:17:07.200 --> 02:17:09.600 you in the face over and over again. Like it's 2418 02:17:10.200 --> 02:17:11.920 I I didn't realize that for a long time, and 2419 02:17:11.920 --> 02:17:15.520 then I realized, like these people really are. They're they're crapists. 2420 02:17:15.520 --> 02:17:17.319 They're like moral creaman's and they're just like a lot 2421 02:17:17.319 --> 02:17:19.799 of we're just like fucking stupid, Like they're not acting 2422 02:17:20.600 --> 02:17:23.239 like Joe Biden, like Biden. 2423 02:17:23.159 --> 02:17:26.120 They're not acting yeah, yeah, yeah. 2424 02:17:25.959 --> 02:17:28.399 Biden really is a fucking moron. Like he's like aside 2425 02:17:28.399 --> 02:17:32.840 from his uh, aside from whatever like organic mention issues 2426 02:17:32.879 --> 02:17:34.319 that they ran out half like the guy the guy's 2427 02:17:34.319 --> 02:17:37.719 are fucking idiots, you know, like uh like like Nancy 2428 02:17:37.760 --> 02:17:40.920 Pelosi is like a subnormal fucking moron, you know, Like 2429 02:17:41.000 --> 02:17:45.280 they're very rare exceptions. They're they're all like that, you know, 2430 02:17:45.360 --> 02:17:50.879 and it's there's outliers, but they you know, they're kind 2431 02:17:50.879 --> 02:17:53.000 of only in the game. A guy like Mary and 2432 02:17:53.040 --> 02:17:55.040 Paul is only in a game that's like literally become 2433 02:17:55.079 --> 02:17:56.840 kind of like a family business. I'm not like putting 2434 02:17:56.840 --> 02:17:59.719 shade on Randon Paul. He's a by the only like 2435 02:18:00.079 --> 02:18:04.920 he's not the only previous Paul. I. I I like 2436 02:18:04.959 --> 02:18:07.879 it all these days. But but my point is, like 2437 02:18:07.920 --> 02:18:10.200 I think Head he had like another kind of like path, 2438 02:18:10.280 --> 02:18:12.959 the clout and money. I I don't think he'd be 2439 02:18:12.959 --> 02:18:16.360 hanging around Washington. I just don't. I Mean, that's that's all. 2440 02:18:16.440 --> 02:18:19.600 That's all other people talking on the sociology of the 2441 02:18:19.639 --> 02:18:25.040 managerial state, like, uh, there's not there's some grand uh 2442 02:18:25.079 --> 02:18:29.079 historical project. They buried that project, notwithstanding you know, whether 2443 02:18:29.120 --> 02:18:33.239 it's world, whether it's war, whether it's World War two 2444 02:18:33.319 --> 02:18:36.680 or whether it's the Code War, like uh, you know, 2445 02:18:36.879 --> 02:18:39.280 the point before like Elon Musk forty years ago, he'd 2446 02:18:39.280 --> 02:18:41.920 be like Jerry Parnell. He would have been you know, 2447 02:18:41.959 --> 02:18:44.799 heading up some pack and like working hand in glove 2448 02:18:44.879 --> 02:18:47.719 with the d O d on like SDI and stuff 2449 02:18:47.760 --> 02:18:50.040 like that. But like I guys like him, like they 2450 02:18:50.200 --> 02:18:52.680 want anything to do with garment these days, why would they? 2451 02:18:52.760 --> 02:18:57.280 Like that's this repository of like losers and like weirdo's 2452 02:18:57.319 --> 02:18:59.639 frankly you know what I mean that that doesn't matter. 2453 02:19:00.879 --> 02:19:03.479 Like how people Definitely he's smart enough to take their 2454 02:19:03.520 --> 02:19:07.159 money though, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 2455 02:19:07.000 --> 02:19:09.319 Yeah, that's part of the game. You know. It's like 2456 02:19:09.360 --> 02:19:12.000 I I get people putting shit on of Elons. There's 2457 02:19:12.000 --> 02:19:14.079 something that seems like lose rich about it. I Mean, 2458 02:19:14.120 --> 02:19:18.120 the dude is he's an Afri connor, a billionaire who's 2459 02:19:18.879 --> 02:19:23.440 a genius innovator and he he he's he's he's one 2460 02:19:23.440 --> 02:19:25.920 of the only people who's talking about truly fallacy and 2461 02:19:26.000 --> 02:19:28.920 things you know, like the Congress, the space which, despite 2462 02:19:28.920 --> 02:19:31.520 when people tell you, actually is important on its own terms. 2463 02:19:32.879 --> 02:19:34.840 So there's something like lose rich about people that just 2464 02:19:34.920 --> 02:19:37.520 deciding they hate Elon Musk but he but yeah, I 2465 02:19:37.520 --> 02:19:40.000 mean the role he's in not just his wealth, but 2466 02:19:40.040 --> 02:19:43.639 because of like how that wealth is kind of insinuated 2467 02:19:43.680 --> 02:19:49.040 into things that touch and concern you know, uh, like 2468 02:19:49.159 --> 02:19:54.159 like you know, technology that at scale, you know, the 2469 02:19:54.639 --> 02:19:56.760 regimes relying upon. I mean, he's gonna be like a 2470 02:19:56.799 --> 02:20:00.280 political actor, okay with it. But the reason why, like 2471 02:20:00.280 --> 02:20:02.559 he doesn't comment like formal office. So the reason why 2472 02:20:02.600 --> 02:20:06.000 he's not you know, engage in like think tank stuff 2473 02:20:06.120 --> 02:20:08.639 is because, yeah, that the end of the Cold War 2474 02:20:08.719 --> 02:20:11.760 brought an end to the ability of of of the 2475 02:20:11.799 --> 02:20:17.840 regime to attract none such as he to uh their environs. Yeah. 2476 02:20:18.600 --> 02:20:21.000 Well yeah, let's uh if you want to do a place, 2477 02:20:21.120 --> 02:20:23.319 well that'd be great. Man's up to you. And then 2478 02:20:23.360 --> 02:20:25.440 we'll after that, well, we'll get back to the Cold 2479 02:20:25.520 --> 02:20:29.719 War series and take up uh Vina Vietnam era, like 2480 02:20:29.719 --> 02:20:32.200 what next episode will do whichever you want, like either 2481 02:20:32.200 --> 02:20:32.479 of those. 2482 02:20:33.760 --> 02:20:36.200 I was thinking about jumping back into the Cold War 2483 02:20:37.000 --> 02:20:39.040 I kind of a few episodes and then coming back 2484 02:20:39.079 --> 02:20:41.040 into this because I think a lot of it will 2485 02:20:41.040 --> 02:20:44.040 cross over. I think we'll have what we'll actually even 2486 02:20:44.159 --> 02:20:47.680 generate content for the next surrel talk, especially with what 2487 02:20:47.719 --> 02:20:50.280 we're going to talk about in the next couple uh, 2488 02:20:50.360 --> 02:20:52.079 in the next few Cold War episodes. 2489 02:20:52.479 --> 02:20:54.399 No, that would be great, man. Yeah, there's a lot, 2490 02:20:55.040 --> 02:20:58.559 there's a lot, there's a lot to there's a lot 2491 02:20:58.600 --> 02:21:01.520 there with Vietnam and then then that that dovetails not 2492 02:21:01.559 --> 02:21:07.319 just with my research on this, on this Nuremberg International 2493 02:21:07.360 --> 02:21:12.319 International Jurisprudence manuscript and working on but it, like the 2494 02:21:12.639 --> 02:21:18.520 Annams vi Atnam's important in ways that not unlike World 2495 02:21:18.520 --> 02:21:22.399 War Two, is important understanding the current regime. I mean 2496 02:21:22.440 --> 02:21:26.239 not it's like a founding mythology obviously, nothing like that. 2497 02:21:26.319 --> 02:21:29.680 But it changed things in all kinds of ways, and 2498 02:21:29.719 --> 02:21:32.360 that that really was like the hot battle field of 2499 02:21:32.399 --> 02:21:35.399 the Cold War and all kinds of like militarily put 2500 02:21:35.440 --> 02:21:38.639 it leap, I mean, culturally it changed things. And we'll 2501 02:21:38.639 --> 02:21:40.639 get into all of that. But my point is, like 2502 02:21:40.639 --> 02:21:44.399 it's not just some it's not just like a question 2503 02:21:44.440 --> 02:21:47.000 a trivia or some or something something that's like interesting 2504 02:21:47.040 --> 02:21:49.120 to talk about, like you know, it might be to 2505 02:21:49.159 --> 02:21:52.440 talk about kind of like you know, the you know, 2506 02:21:52.520 --> 02:21:55.760 some some kind of like long forgotten you know, war 2507 02:21:55.799 --> 02:21:58.239 ways by the British Empire or something like it remains 2508 02:21:58.280 --> 02:21:59.959 really important? Is my point? 2509 02:22:01.559 --> 02:22:04.479 All right too, plugs and we'll get out of here. 2510 02:22:05.479 --> 02:22:07.600 Yeah, you can still find me on Twitter. I mean, 2511 02:22:07.600 --> 02:22:09.079 they screw with me a lot, but I don't think 2512 02:22:09.120 --> 02:22:11.159 they're gonna band me again. I think those days are over. 2513 02:22:11.360 --> 02:22:15.120 I mean, if they did well, I'm launching a YouTube 2514 02:22:15.200 --> 02:22:18.040 channel just in a few days here, after the first 2515 02:22:18.040 --> 02:22:21.120 week in January, and I'll make sure everybody knows where 2516 02:22:21.120 --> 02:22:25.360 to find it. It's Thomas TV. Uh able to find it, 2517 02:22:25.639 --> 02:22:28.399 but I'll plug it like on Twitter, I'll plug it 2518 02:22:28.440 --> 02:22:32.440 on substack. I'll make sure people can find it. My 2519 02:22:32.479 --> 02:22:35.639 Twitter is at tris Kelly and Jahad. The first T 2520 02:22:35.840 --> 02:22:39.760 is seven. If you search for Thomas seven seven seven, 2521 02:22:39.799 --> 02:22:42.239 I think you'll find it. But uh, you'll find me 2522 02:22:42.280 --> 02:22:45.879 on substack at real Thomas seven seven seven dot subsec 2523 02:22:45.920 --> 02:22:50.120 dot com. I've been canceled from uh t gram, which 2524 02:22:50.159 --> 02:22:53.639 is a ship uh company. In my opinion, I was 2525 02:22:53.639 --> 02:22:56.840 a paid subscriber in a you know mind you They 2526 02:22:56.879 --> 02:23:00.559 welcome garbage, like you know, hardcore pornography and like really 2527 02:23:00.600 --> 02:23:04.200 disgusting like boor stuff. But it's run by some Zionist crowd, 2528 02:23:04.879 --> 02:23:09.680 like and apparently like the crime of like criticizing uh 2529 02:23:10.680 --> 02:23:13.520 Somali of the Earls West known as Ukraine as like 2530 02:23:13.559 --> 02:23:17.360 a chancellorable offense. So I've got no use for that. 2531 02:23:17.799 --> 02:23:21.120 I wish people would. Uh. There's plenty of other chat 2532 02:23:22.520 --> 02:23:27.319 options popping up, including a substack itself. Uh, you can 2533 02:23:27.399 --> 02:23:30.959 join my substack chat for free. They it's it's a 2534 02:23:30.959 --> 02:23:33.719 lot more user friendly than t gram. They don't censor anybody, 2535 02:23:34.639 --> 02:23:37.239 and we've got total control of it because it's incident 2536 02:23:37.319 --> 02:23:41.600 to my t gran, my subject account and subjects. 2537 02:23:42.399 --> 02:23:43.959 You need to have the sub you need to have 2538 02:23:44.000 --> 02:23:47.680 the substack app and on your phone in order to 2539 02:23:47.719 --> 02:23:49.319 get notifications for it. 2540 02:23:50.040 --> 02:23:54.159 Yeah, but it's it's dope and uh so far subject 2541 02:23:54.239 --> 02:23:57.479 has never ever done anything to sensor any of my content. 2542 02:23:57.760 --> 02:24:01.719 And frankly, uh, people like Genuate generate a health lot 2543 02:24:01.760 --> 02:24:04.760 of revenue for them, and uh, I think they realize 2544 02:24:05.639 --> 02:24:08.040 which side they're Uh bread is buttered on as it worse. 2545 02:24:08.040 --> 02:24:10.520 I don't think that's gonna change, but please migrate to 2546 02:24:10.639 --> 02:24:12.920 sub stack. I I'm done with t Graham. I'm I 2547 02:24:12.920 --> 02:24:14.879 can't a good conscience. I'm not gonna pay money to 2548 02:24:14.920 --> 02:24:18.319 people who cancel me. I'm not gonna utilize a platform 2549 02:24:18.399 --> 02:24:21.479 where people abuse me. And I've gotten really disgusting and 2550 02:24:21.520 --> 02:24:27.840 awful communications from from these like Ukrainian sickos and like 2551 02:24:27.879 --> 02:24:30.840 other people. Man, like there's it just really grows stuff. 2552 02:24:31.000 --> 02:24:34.319 I mean, like I I cannot, I don't know, you know, 2553 02:24:34.680 --> 02:24:37.799 play murder or something. But this idea that like well 2554 02:24:37.840 --> 02:24:40.600 t gram kind of sucks, but you know, it's good 2555 02:24:40.639 --> 02:24:43.360 for other things. It's not a good platform, man, And 2556 02:24:43.399 --> 02:24:47.159 it's it's a repositive Malbourne spy Wars spywear. It's always 2557 02:24:47.200 --> 02:24:51.600 fucked up like the user or it's bought. Hell yeah, man, 2558 02:24:51.639 --> 02:24:53.399 it's a ship hole and people I don't know why 2559 02:24:53.399 --> 02:24:55.319 people are like so attached to it. It's like what 2560 02:24:55.360 --> 02:24:57.120 do you what are you getting out of this? But whatever, 2561 02:24:57.479 --> 02:24:59.799 So yeah, that's no more. I will never return there. 2562 02:25:00.319 --> 02:25:02.719 But yeah, forgive the rant, but that's definitely can find me. 2563 02:25:03.600 --> 02:25:09.079 My My second novel, which is the second Steel Storm novel, 2564 02:25:09.239 --> 02:25:11.680 is gonna drop in January. I do hope you went 2565 02:25:11.719 --> 02:25:13.719 asking what that, but you know that that's all I 2566 02:25:13.760 --> 02:25:16.360 got for no And thank you very much everybody you 2567 02:25:16.440 --> 02:25:17.920 throw all the kind feedback. 2568 02:25:20.079 --> 02:25:23.399 This will be the first episode of the new year. 2569 02:25:24.120 --> 02:25:28.440 Oh thank you know, thank everybody. For this previous year. 2570 02:25:28.440 --> 02:25:31.920 It's been absolutely amazing. And just to say about Substack, 2571 02:25:32.319 --> 02:25:34.840 substack will be the only place that someone like you 2572 02:25:34.959 --> 02:25:36.639 or me will ever get a check mark. 2573 02:25:37.639 --> 02:25:44.040 Yeah yeah, yeah, I remember, Yeah, I remember. I. 2574 02:25:44.040 --> 02:25:46.120 I logged on and I looked at my I looked 2575 02:25:46.120 --> 02:25:47.559 at one of my posts and there was a check 2576 02:25:47.559 --> 02:25:50.479 market next to my name, and I'm like, that's weird. 2577 02:25:52.239 --> 02:25:57.159 Yeah, no, it's it's in some ways, the the market 2578 02:25:57.200 --> 02:25:59.319 is the corrective and and we we make a lot 2579 02:25:59.360 --> 02:26:01.360 of money for those people. Man, they make money because 2580 02:26:01.360 --> 02:26:05.319 of us. I mean they're not They're not. Uh, I 2581 02:26:05.319 --> 02:26:07.120 mean that's that that really is the bread and butter. 2582 02:26:07.200 --> 02:26:10.280 I mean it's not a platform that draws advertising revenue. Really, 2583 02:26:10.760 --> 02:26:13.200 I mean, yeah, so they I'm a huge fan of 2584 02:26:13.239 --> 02:26:16.440 substick man, I I really am. So yeah, please dip 2585 02:26:16.479 --> 02:26:19.680 into the substick ship. It's basically like the core of 2586 02:26:19.680 --> 02:26:22.399 guys and a few ladies, and we we appreciate them 2587 02:26:22.440 --> 02:26:27.000 being among us. Stop. Uh. It's basically like the t 2588 02:26:27.200 --> 02:26:30.200 Grand mob like basically migrated there. But there's still something holdouts. 2589 02:26:30.200 --> 02:26:31.959 And I don't know if they're fucking massiveness or what. 2590 02:26:32.079 --> 02:26:34.280 It's like quite the freaking t gram Man it's bad 2591 02:26:34.280 --> 02:26:39.120 for you. Yeah, it's bad for you. But yeah, again, 2592 02:26:39.159 --> 02:26:41.159 I can't thank you enough man, and I I'm really 2593 02:26:41.200 --> 02:26:43.520 stoked that people have been so excited about this, this 2594 02:26:43.639 --> 02:26:46.200 this series. And yeah, well we'll get into we'll get 2595 02:26:46.200 --> 02:26:49.120 into uh, we'll get into the Vietnam War next episode, 2596 02:26:49.159 --> 02:26:53.360 and then we'll get back to Sorel and reflections on violence. 2597 02:26:53.600 --> 02:26:56.799 So appreciated, Thomas. 2598 02:26:56.840 --> 02:26:57.200 Thank you