WEBVTT 1 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:13.320 Welcome to the gods View Podcast. I am your host, Trevor. 2 00:00:14.320 --> 00:00:19.120 How's everybody doing out there in the world wide world. 3 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:27.320 Sorry for the weird like slowing of the audio last week. 4 00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:29.359 It sounded like some of the clips we were playing 5 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:33.960 it sounded like the guy was drunk or something. The 6 00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:37.960 only thing I could figure out at least what my 7 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:43.920 hypothesis is I just had way too many things running 8 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:46.880 on my computer at once, which is crazy because this 9 00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:50.920 is a brand new MacBook Pro. But I literally had 10 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:56.439 like thirty different I have like MRI imaging processing software going, 11 00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:02.280 and I had our studio statistics, you know, a million 12 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:07.120 browser tabs word Excel. It was just it was a 13 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.879 nightmare just trying to like save a file froze my computer. 14 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:16.040 So I've managed to destroy another perfectly good laptop, but 15 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:20.959 I've closed everything. I've deleted about two hundred gigabytes worth 16 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:24.120 the stuff, and I think we're back in business anyway. 17 00:01:26.439 --> 00:01:29.120 Great to be with you all again. This will be 18 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:35.840 part two of our did Jesus Claim to Be God? Series, 19 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:41.079 which is really just a you know, hijacking of Alex 20 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:46.920 O'Connor's great content and adding some commentary which kind of 21 00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:50.280 brings me to a show housekeeping thing I want to 22 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:54.359 bring up before we get started. You know, I've been 23 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:58.400 recording like an episode a day for quite a while 24 00:02:00.120 --> 00:02:02.000 because it's kind of nice. I know, I've said many 25 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:04.040 times before that the show is sort of really it's 26 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:07.359 just for my own mental health. But you know, I 27 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:12.120 am feeling the instinct waning. You know, it's because I, 28 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:18.520 within the context of like science and philosophy and religion, 29 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:22.000 I've kind of like said everything that I know, you know, 30 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:26.719 so I'm kind of I'm feeling I'm starting to feel repetitive, 31 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:31.360 so I'll probably slow down the frequency. But one thing 32 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:33.319 that I thought would be kind of cool, and this 33 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:38.479 is a long shot, is it would be nice, you know, 34 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:41.039 because I've always recorded shows in the past with the 35 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:45.680 co host, you know, in my different failed podcast experiments, 36 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:49.360 it would be nice to maybe have like an occasional 37 00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:52.360 guest co host show up. So if you're sitting out 38 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:56.280 there listening and you're like, dear God, that's me, I'm 39 00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:59.599 the guy or the gal, and you're like, I am 40 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:04.800 the one, and I will rise to the challenge, shoot 41 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:07.719 me an email. I know it'd probably be a little 42 00:03:07.719 --> 00:03:11.159 bit awkward the first couple of times, but uh, I 43 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:14.080 don't know. It's just nice, Like if I say something 44 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:17.479 that isn't clear, it's nice to have somebody else say like, wait, 45 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:21.800 can you re explain that? Or if we're reacting to clips, 46 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:24.800 you know, there's things I might miss, So it would 47 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:30.280 be cool. You don't necessarily have to be like an 48 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:34.000 expert in anything. I mean, it would be welcome. You know, 49 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:37.000 if you're out there listening and you're a you're a 50 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:42.159 physicist or a or a theologian or a philosopher, like yeah, 51 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:45.439 don't get me wrong, that'd be sick. But you also 52 00:03:45.439 --> 00:03:46.919 don't have to be that. We could just sort of 53 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:52.039 react to stuff. So really, really, no matter where you're 54 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:54.159 at in the intellectual spectrum, I think it is just 55 00:03:54.280 --> 00:03:57.919 nice to have a second perspective, you know, someone who 56 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:02.759 someone who's either sometime can be like a foil or 57 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:07.439 a sounding board or represent people who maybe don't know 58 00:04:07.479 --> 00:04:10.879 as much about the topic and ask sort of basic 59 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:14.840 but important questions. I think that's all good. So shoot 60 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:17.800 me an email at God's I view book at gmail 61 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:20.720 dot com if you're interested. Now back to the show. 62 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:27.319 Last episode we listened to Mark, we talked about an 63 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:30.600 argument from Mark, which is that Jesus forgave sins and 64 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:34.040 only and God alone can forgive sins. It's so fact though, 65 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:38.759 you know Jesus is God. And I, I mean, I 66 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:41.360 don't know about you, but I found the I found 67 00:04:41.399 --> 00:04:44.000 the take pretty compelling. I mean, maybe maybe I'm saying 68 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:50.360 that because I've seen Alex make people look dumb on 69 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:54.279 this point, and he certainly did not make this guy 70 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:55.839 look dumb. I need to figure out what his name 71 00:04:55.959 --> 00:04:58.800 is so he can plug his book. It's not in 72 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:01.680 the title or the description. But anyway, he certainly didn't 73 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:04.839 make this guy look dumb. I didn't think. And then 74 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:07.480 Alex brought up a point that, well, you know, Matthew 75 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:10.600 told the same story, but he made it even let 76 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:15.879 he made Jesus making even less of a divine claim. 77 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:18.240 And I think the counter argument was, yeah, but it 78 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:21.279 still is a divine claim. And Matthew is just a 79 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:25.879 shorter book so there's less detail. And yeah, I grant that, 80 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:30.120 of all the verses to remove, those two are not 81 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:34.279 ideal for my argument, but I agree it doesn't really 82 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:37.360 like fundamentally change anything. So now we're moving into the 83 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:44.360 next part, and this looks like It's about twelve minutes long, 84 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:51.480 and the title of this chapter is Jesus as a 85 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:57.519 disciple of John the Baptist. And if you could make 86 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:03.160 this argument, then that be pretty you know, bad for 87 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:07.079 Jesus's divine claim because it's sort of it would sort 88 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:12.040 of be odd for God to be a disciple of 89 00:06:12.079 --> 00:06:18.120 a man. But again, I think I think like the 90 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.839 atheists or the non Christians kind of press the point 91 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:25.279 too far here. What's what's the word I'm looking for? 92 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:29.439 They're they're kind of they're fighting an argument that even 93 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:32.439 really Christians themselves I don't think would make. Which is 94 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:36.519 not that the word Jesus and the word God are synonyms. 95 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:40.560 I don't think that's true. Jesus is one aspect of 96 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:44.600 a triune God. He's not the Father, he's not the 97 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:48.000 Holy Spirit. He was sent by the Father. However, he 98 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:51.920 is God. Not again, not synonymous with God, but he 99 00:06:52.079 --> 00:06:56.360 is an aspect of my favorite, my favorite analogy of 100 00:06:56.399 --> 00:07:01.199 the Trinity, because there's like this whole joke around theology 101 00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:04.680 that like, no matter how you try to describe the Trinity, 102 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:09.720 you commit the heresy like saying like ice, water and steam, 103 00:07:09.879 --> 00:07:12.720 like is the heresy of X you know, there's all 104 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:16.240 these named heresies that the Catholic Church has come up with, 105 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:20.800 and pretty much every analogy you can come up with 106 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:24.879 is a heresy, except maybe one, which is Neopolitan ice cream, 107 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:28.560 which is that you know, it's all the ice cream, 108 00:07:29.079 --> 00:07:33.959 you know, but you have three different aspects chocolate, vanilla, strawberry. 109 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:36.279 I just think it's funny that probably is the best 110 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:39.399 analogy for the trinity. So when you say, like in 111 00:07:39.480 --> 00:07:43.240 that example, if you said chocolate is ice cream, that 112 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:47.079 would be correct, right, But it's not the same as 113 00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:49.079 the whole carton of ice cream. It's like a specific 114 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:54.240 flavor of the triune ice cream. Okay, I'm not trying 115 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:57.879 to be sacrilegiously. I think it is legitimately probably a 116 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:01.240 good analogy. But curious what you think. Okay, here we go, Jesus, 117 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:03.839 as a disciple of John the Baptist. 118 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:05.759 I should lay out what my position is here, what 119 00:08:05.759 --> 00:08:08.439 my understanding is to help here, and maybe you can 120 00:08:08.519 --> 00:08:10.160 lay out yours. Two, I think you might have betrayed 121 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:13.120 yourself as a Catholic given your use of Latin. I 122 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:16.399 think you know it's out in the open now for 123 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:17.279 our listeners. 124 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:19.639 Yes, for what it's worth. 125 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:25.000 I'm quite attracted to the idea that Jesus, historically speaking, 126 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:28.319 is essentially a follower of John the Baptist, a disciple 127 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.839 of John the Baptist. And there's some evidence in this 128 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:34.120 in the fact that Jesus is of course baptized by 129 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:36.639 John the Baptists, and John is preaching a baptism of 130 00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:40.279 repentance for the forgiveness of sins. A lot of people 131 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:42.240 think that John was a type of June known as 132 00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:44.679 an Esscene, because there are sort of three major Jewish 133 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:49.039 groups in this time. There's the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and 134 00:08:49.080 --> 00:08:52.159 the Essenes, and of course a lot of people might 135 00:08:52.200 --> 00:08:53.960 not have heard of the latter group because Jesus is 136 00:08:53.960 --> 00:08:57.120 constantly battling with the first two, never battles with third. 137 00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:01.399 There's a lot that Alex sort of sneaking in another 138 00:09:01.480 --> 00:09:04.679 atheist talking point, which again I'm not saying talking point 139 00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.320 like a stupid atheist. It's it's valid, it's you know, 140 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:11.120 I think we should contend with all this stuff. You know, 141 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:14.399 most people haven't heard of the a scene. Most Christians 142 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:18.039 haven't heard of the Ascene, because Jesus most likely was 143 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:23.200 in a scene jew you know, an Aramaic speaking Galilean, 144 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:30.279 a scene Jew and the religious authority in in the 145 00:09:30.320 --> 00:09:36.039 major the major cities and stuff was were the Pharisees 146 00:09:36.039 --> 00:09:39.240 and the Sadducees, and they have different beliefs, like the 147 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:43.320 Sadducees did not believe in an end time resurrection, the 148 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:47.519 Pharisees did, you know, And compared to the scene, they're 149 00:09:47.559 --> 00:09:49.799 probably more like legalistic. But I don't know if we 150 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:51.919 actually know that for sure. That's just how it to portrayed. 151 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:55.840 And so Jesus was not a part of that group. 152 00:09:56.559 --> 00:09:59.120 John the Baptist was most likely not a part of 153 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:03.759 that group. And so this is sort of positioned as 154 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:06.919 like this makes this text almost sort of like political. 155 00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:10.720 You know, this is a almost like a political figure 156 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:18.720 trying to usurp the current religious authority. I mean, listen, 157 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:21.759 it's not a totally unreasonable hypothesis. I just don't think 158 00:10:21.799 --> 00:10:24.039 it really finds a ton of support. I could be wrong. 159 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:27.039 One thing about the scenes that are interesting is that 160 00:10:27.080 --> 00:10:32.399 they are very I think. You know, again, I don't 161 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:35.759 know a ton a ton about this stuff. I think 162 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:41.360 I represent like an educated layman maybe, but my impression 163 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:45.000 is that the scene were pretty mystical, and they were 164 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:49.360 pretty focused on the apocalypse, and they were excellent record keepers. 165 00:10:49.799 --> 00:10:54.440 And you know the Dead Sea Scrolls, for example, that's 166 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:59.519 in a scene library that was discovered, so he kind 167 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:01.600 of snuck that in there. It's completely unrelated to the 168 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:03.759 brighter point. I just wanted to clarify a lot of bit. 169 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:07.240 It's a barely sort of you know, well trodden power 170 00:11:07.279 --> 00:11:10.000 to people who suggest this means Jesus is an ess 171 00:11:10.000 --> 00:11:12.080 scene in the tradition of John the Baptist, John the 172 00:11:12.080 --> 00:11:15.120 Baptist dies. John is constantly talking about having a successor. 173 00:11:15.159 --> 00:11:16.840 There's one coming who's going to be greater than me. 174 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:20.159 Jesus is that man. Jesus sort of continues the ministry 175 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:21.759 of John the Baptist, and then what we see is 176 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:26.080 Jesus preparing to pass on that ministry to his own 177 00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:29.440 disciples and singling out Peter as his sort of main successor. 178 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:32.320 And of course this is very unorthodox for Christians, but 179 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:34.919 I'm speaking historically here. There are some clues here. Jesus 180 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:36.679 is saying things to his disciples like, you know, one 181 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:38.840 day you'll do greater things than I will. He talks 182 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:42.000 about teachers and students and how the students will surpass 183 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:45.039 the teacher. And of course the main thing and the 184 00:11:45.080 --> 00:11:46.799 reason I bring this up is to say that whenever 185 00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:51.799 I'm confronted with evidence of Jesus's actions, things that he 186 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:55.320 can do that only God can do, Jesus forgive since 187 00:11:55.639 --> 00:11:58.919 in John chapter twenty he ends up giving that authority 188 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:02.279 to his disciples. Jesus walks on the water. A lot 189 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:05.519 of people also forget that Peter also walks on the water, 190 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:07.919 you know, and he starts sinking because he doesn't have 191 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:09.960 enough faith. But the implication there is that if he 192 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:12.320 had enough faith, he'd be able to walk on the water, 193 00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:15.360 just like Jesus did. Who meaning, Jesus is presented as 194 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:18.759 this idyllic figure with perfect faith in the Father, and 195 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:20.840 if only Peter has the same faith, he could have 196 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:21.720 walked on the water too. 197 00:12:22.039 --> 00:12:22.200 You know. 198 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:25.000 Jesus judges mankind, well, he delegates judge. 199 00:12:25.399 --> 00:12:28.639 I have to say, and again, I'm sorry if I'm 200 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:33.519 committing heresy here, but this kind of is the natural reading. 201 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.159 And you know, when I first read the Gospel like 202 00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:39.600 this is how I interpreted it, I didn't know enough 203 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:44.720 to know that this is sort of you know, it's 204 00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:50.320 sort of maybe semi problematic with Catholic and Orthodox tradition, 205 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:53.519 but no, I mean I actually I think I would 206 00:12:53.519 --> 00:12:56.240 say it's very problematic. You know, if you interpret this 207 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:00.679 as saying that basically we could all be like Jesus 208 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:04.840 literally through faith, I mean, that is a pretty problematic belief, 209 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:11.440 you know, for sort of mainstream Christianity. So anyway, so 210 00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:13.919 to Alex's point, I mean that is how it reads 211 00:13:14.320 --> 00:13:17.240 to an uninformed person reading it for the first. 212 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:19.960 Time, richment of the Twelve Tribes of Israel to the disciples. 213 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:22.559 So as we talk about some of these examples, I 214 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:25.120 want you to I want my listeners, our listeners, to 215 00:13:25.399 --> 00:13:28.679 recognize in my responses that that is kind of my 216 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.879 rough understanding that in these instances where Jesus is doing 217 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:35.399 something extraordinary and yeah, he is obviously doing something amazing 218 00:13:35.559 --> 00:13:38.200 and something that at least common understanding would have it 219 00:13:38.240 --> 00:13:40.519 that only God can do, Jesus is sort of saying, no, watch, 220 00:13:40.519 --> 00:13:42.559 I can do this too, but only in a way 221 00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:46.320 that one day you will also, and that the most 222 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:50.000 sort of the greatest summary of this is in John 223 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:54.159 chapter seventeen, where Jesus is praying for his disciples and 224 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:57.480 the wider Christian community, and he prays that one day, 225 00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:01.039 you know, they will be in me just as I 226 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:02.960 am in you the Father, and will all sort of 227 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.720 be one together, seeming to imply that the special relationship 228 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:08.879 pieces house with the Father is something that will hopefully 229 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.320 be passed on to other people. So that's basically my 230 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:14.279 broad position. Just I thought it's worth laying that out 231 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:15.840 as we go through these. 232 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:19.559 No, that's really helpful, So let me let me let 233 00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:21.759 me try to lay out just in a brief way 234 00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:25.159 mine and then I'd like to point to some things 235 00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.919 that I might that might be intention with that reading, 236 00:14:29.039 --> 00:14:31.480 just or emphasize how I basically let me say I 237 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:33.480 agree with you, because actually one of the amazing things 238 00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:36.799 about Christianity is that it makes very exalted claims for 239 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:41.480 the gifts that it professes. Both the apostles, their disciples 240 00:14:41.559 --> 00:14:44.159 and other believers will be able to share it. It's 241 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:45.960 a very high claim, and this is where the whole 242 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:49.240 Christian tradition of theosis or demonization comes from, even though 243 00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:53.919 that's not very well known and contemporary Christian circles and discourse. 244 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:58.399 I think. So my basic position, or the couple of 245 00:14:58.399 --> 00:14:59.960 positions that I want to try to lay out in 246 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:04.480 this book. Number one is that on the level of 247 00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:07.720 the gospel narratives, I'm trying to undo what I believe 248 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:11.600 to be a very erroneous position that Jesus is only divine, 249 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:15.399 only depicted as divine in John and not in the parotics. Okay, 250 00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:18.919 So I actually think that the that the when it 251 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:21.399 comes to the four sources from the first century about Jesus, 252 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:23.440 he acts and speaks as if he's divine in all 253 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:25.919 four Marthy, Mark, Luke, and John, not just not just 254 00:15:25.960 --> 00:15:29.759 the fore call a second. I actually think that in 255 00:15:29.799 --> 00:15:33.039 addition to the passages that you just listed about him 256 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:37.039 performing divine actions or having divine power to forgive sins 257 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:40.720 or to judge right, in addition to those, there are 258 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:44.919 other passages where Jesus does things that I, at least 259 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.679 I think he doesn't give to his disciples. So let 260 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.279 me let me give you a couple of examples. Is 261 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:51.240 that fair? Please just do that? 262 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:51.559 Okay? 263 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.360 So for example, let's look at the walking on the seat. 264 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.240 So I have the chapter called the Epiphanic Miracles in 265 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:01.399 the book. This is the second chapter, and one of 266 00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.600 the main points of this chapter is actually to just 267 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.120 demolish what I think is actually a myth, the myth 268 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:08.799 that he's only divine in John he's not really divine 269 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:11.320 in the Synoptics. I just think that doesn't hold up, 270 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:13.919 and it's worked in the modern period, primarily because in 271 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:16.559 the modern period there's been a tendencyy to bracket the 272 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.799 miraculous out as if these aren't even part of the Gospels. 273 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:21.960 It's almost kind like a cannon with and cannon. So 274 00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:24.919 lots of books on Jesus just ignore what are known 275 00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:28.919 widely as the Epiphanic miracles. Now, epiphantic miracles already suggest 276 00:16:28.960 --> 00:16:31.759 to you that something is being unveiled or revealed, and 277 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:33.559 it's not just a merely human quality. 278 00:16:33.639 --> 00:16:33.799 Right. 279 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:36.320 This is why King Antikas the Fourth, when he wants 280 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:39.960 to claim divinity he mints coins and tiacas epifondos right 281 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:44.799 and tiacus God manifest right. He's he's making a divine claim. 282 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:47.200 But the epiphanu miracle that I think is really crucial 283 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:50.960 here in Mark six, the walking on the sea takes place. 284 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:54.960 In it, Jesus does something you're right, that he enables. 285 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:57.399 In Matthew's version, he enables Peter at least to walk 286 00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:59.960 briefly on the sea, but before he begins to sing. 287 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:01.759 But one of the things he does that at least 288 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.720 I don't see Peter or any other disciple doing anywhere else, 289 00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:10.160 is take the divine name as his own from the 290 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:10.960 Old Testament. 291 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:11.240 Right. 292 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:14.160 So, just to give you example, in Mark chapter six, 293 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.920 right when he comes walking on the sea and they 294 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.960 see him, they think he's a ghost, he says to them, 295 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.880 this is a Mark six, verse fifty, take heart, Ago 296 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:30.279 a me, do not be afraid, right So take heart 297 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:34.920 I am, do not fear, do not be afraid right now, 298 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:38.160 as I show in Jesus of my Christology, it's not 299 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:43.559 just Christian apologists I've got. It's Jewish scholars, unreligious scholars, Protestants, 300 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:47.799 Catholics alike, recognizing that on the narrative level, at the 301 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:51.400 very least, Okay, the ago of me here is not 302 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:55.640 just an identification. It is doing that, okay, Because he's 303 00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:57.799 just told you they think he's a ghost. There is 304 00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:01.480 a mistaken identity element taking place, and he is saying 305 00:18:01.559 --> 00:18:04.920 Ago and me it is I. That's not an illegitimate translation. 306 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:10.319 But that's not all that's happening, because the context is Theophanic, right, 307 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:11.720 it'd be one thing to just. 308 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:15.039 Say, Okay, guys, this is really cool and I'm nervous 309 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:17.799 because my computer's glitching, so hopefully it's coming through normal 310 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:25.960 on the recording. The I am statement is important, you know, 311 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:30.519 because this is how Yahweh tells Moses I believe, like, 312 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:33.519 who should I tell sent me? And he says, tell 313 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:36.839 tell them that I am sent to you, like tell 314 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.599 them that being itself sent to you. This is this 315 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:44.559 is how God communicates his name to people in the 316 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:48.720 Old Testament. And so this is why in John when 317 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:53.200 he says, you know, before Abraham was I am. You know, 318 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.640 everyone basically understands that this is the vine claim. However, 319 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:03.880 he doesn't act actually technically use the same word son. 320 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:09.279 You heard him say ago ami you know I am. 321 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:15.519 This is not actually and I don't know the Hebrew word. 322 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:18.400 Now it's a little tricky because like we don't you know, 323 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:21.920 Jesus wasn't speaking Hebrew, so we don't actually know what 324 00:19:22.039 --> 00:19:27.480 word he used. This is being written in Greek most likely, 325 00:19:27.559 --> 00:19:30.559 so it could just be a translation thing I believe. 326 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:34.440 But the atheist claim is he's actually using a slightly 327 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:38.319 different word. However, you can kind of settle this argument, 328 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:40.680 which is the point he's about to make, because if 329 00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:44.799 he's making the divine claim in the context of something 330 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:48.599 that only God can do, it seems to suggest that 331 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:51.279 he's making a divine claim. Right, So in this case, 332 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:55.079 he's walking on water. So let's uh, he'll he'll do 333 00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:57.599 a much better job explaining. I just wanted to set 334 00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:58.720 you up a little bit. 335 00:19:59.079 --> 00:20:01.400 It's me if you know, you stumble across someone in 336 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.039 the dark and you don't know who it is, and 337 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.240 he says, I am okay, fine, no numinous divine implications. 338 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:10.119 But he's walking on the water when he says ago 339 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:12.759 and me, and he adds to it. And this is important. 340 00:20:13.200 --> 00:20:19.519 The standard Theophanic statement mayfol based that Greek, do not 341 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:22.000 be afraid. Don't be afraid. This is what happens over 342 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:23.680 and over again the Old Testament when a he. 343 00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:26.279 This is so key man, this is so to me. 344 00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:29.880 This just totally undercuts the argument. You know, he's saying, 345 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.160 do not be afraid. This is the standard thing that 346 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:38.599 heavenly beings say to humans the first time they encountered 347 00:20:38.599 --> 00:20:42.200 a human, kind of suggesting that they're terrifying. So he says, 348 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:46.559 do not be afraid I am he says God's name, 349 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:49.920 and you could say, okay, really he's saying it is I, 350 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.319 because both of those are appropriate translations of ago em. 351 00:20:54.119 --> 00:20:57.599 But he just said do not be afraid, an angelic greeting, 352 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:01.160 and he's literally standing on water when he says it. 353 00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:04.599 It's like, come on, like how like okay, you can 354 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:07.680 argue about whether or not you believe this happened. But 355 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:12.960 to argue that Jesus isn't even implying you know that 356 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:15.200 he is God or he is at least an aspect 357 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:19.319 of God, to me, I think that's like a little petulant, maybe, 358 00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:21.079 like you're being like a little stubborn. 359 00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:23.960 Heavenly being comes down, whether it's the Lord or whether it's 360 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.759 an angelic figure, the normal human response is fear and trembling. Right, 361 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:32.759 So in this case, Jesus both identifies himself allays their fears. 362 00:21:32.799 --> 00:21:35.880 But then also, in my opinion and an opinion of 363 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:43.319 lots of scholars, takes the numinous divine epithet Aegoimi I 364 00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.640 am or I am he who is, which is an 365 00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:48.759 allusion to Exodus three, the kind of paradigmatic theophany in 366 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:53.400 the Old Testament in which God reveals his name to 367 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:57.920 the Israelites. It's a revelation of not just what he is, 368 00:21:58.200 --> 00:22:02.359 but who he is, uncreated creator, the one who has 369 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:04.160 no beginning, who has no end. He's not just the 370 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:06.559 God of the mountain or the god of the river's 371 00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.680 he's He's the God who is. And so he takes 372 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:13.720 that name as his own. That is something that I 373 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:15.640 think you see not only Mark six, but also in 374 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:18.599 John eight aty eight when Jesus says or Abraham was 375 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:23.559 a go a me same thing a a declaration that 376 00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:27.000 has no predicate, right, doesn't say I am God. It's 377 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:29.400 just non predicted. 378 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:31.720 The trial as well in Mark's version, right. 379 00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:33.400 In Marx version, although it's not in the other. So 380 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:35.400 I didn't make too much day out of that. In 381 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:38.119 the I was trying to focus on the triple tradition. 382 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.920 So you're right though, But that's the answer to a question, right, 383 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:44.880 So that's also important. Like the meaning a go a 384 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:47.119 me I am is going to have is going to 385 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.000 be determined by context. It would be wrong for, for example, 386 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:54.400 Christian apologist to say whenever someone says a go amy, 387 00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:57.680 they're claiming to be divine. Because the blind man says 388 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:01.640 it in John chapter nine or ten, that's right, it's nine, yeah, 389 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:04.640 because they're asking, hey, is this the same guy or not? Right, 390 00:23:04.720 --> 00:23:07.720 he's different than he was, and he says I am, 391 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:09.599 which clearly means yes, it's me. 392 00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:14.839 But the context also warns warns his followers, like in 393 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.880 March chapter thirteen, he says, beware that no one leaves 394 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:21.440 you astray. Some many will come in my name and 395 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:24.759 say I am he like ego amy and will lead 396 00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:26.839 you astray. So clearly, just the usage of this name 397 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:29.440 is not necessarily an invocation of divinity, just to be 398 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:32.680 clear for our listeners here, right, So, so ego amy 399 00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:35.359 is is a Greek phrase which is used in the Gospels. 400 00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.079 The Gospels a written in Greek. The Old Testament is 401 00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:42.920