Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, I'm Stephanie Wilder Taylor and this is Drunkish.
Maybe you've heard by now. I wrote a book. It's
called Drunkish. I gabbed about my whole sobriety story because
I love to tell everybody everything about myself. But now
I have a podcast, so I get to hear other
people's stories and discuss sobriety with my friends, which I love.
And today's guest is a friend of mine. Her name
is Kim Evie. She's a writer, comedian, actress, mom, and
like I said, a friend of mine. And if you
want to find her funny videos, she's got ig which
is kim Evie spelled ev e y or her TikTok
kim Evie. And let's talk to her right now. I'm
so excited to have Kim Evy here. Already told everybody
all about you.
Speaker 2: Hi. Oh you did? Hi? Hi? What'd you tell them?
Speaker 1: Some good stuff about you? And like what you do?
I like how famous you are.
Speaker 2: I'm so famous. I'm like, I'm probably the most famous
person you had on your podcast. Not to brag, but.
Speaker 1: You are such a good writer and I will tell you.
And I should have just said this in the regular
phone call portion of this or the you know, but
I many people in my writing class, for those of
you who don't know I do. I teach like memoir writing.
But Kim is writing a book and it's so good,
and many people are like, is Kim done with her book?
Speaker 2: I was just talking to somebody about that. I'm not
doing working on it right now, but I'm I'm going
to go back to it. They want to be your
beta reader. Oh okay, beta readers, that's for sure. Okay, anyway, sorry.
Speaker 1: So you and I met in sobriety in recovery, and
I'll tell people right off the bat that you were
one of my first friends. And I I spotted you
because somebody told me that you had been sober for
only like a couple of months, and that seemed like
so long to me that I will never forget coming
up to you and just being like, Hi, my name
is Stephanie, and like I have whatever handful of days
I must say, I think you had like two days,
maybe one.
Speaker 2: It was so you were so new. It was it
was at the big Saturday gathering.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was down to the Juggalos of the Juggles, Yes,
and uh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you were I had.
Speaker 1: I probably had a couple maybe like a week okay,
or two maybe too it was your first meeting or
your second meeting, or because you're so, I'd gone to
a few meetings already. I already had. I already had
a spare. It's like you're the first thing. Maybe they'd
never been to any meeting before. Maybe you were still drunk.
Speaker 2: Can you talk?
Speaker 1: And I was like, can help me?
Speaker 2: And I was like, stop drinking that, margerite, we'll talk.
So can you just tell just tell me your story.
You know how to do that. I know how to
do that. Okay. So my my story is that I
was a periodic drinker, very periodic, so much so and
very private and so much so that I didn't really
know if I had a problem, although I pretty much
suspected that I did. It was getting pretty bad. But
a lot of the people who get sober will be
like I totally thought nobody knew, but everybody knew. But
with me, literally like nobody knew. I was very very
good at hiding it. And also it wasn't I mean,
I was really lucky. I was like starting to circle
the drain. But you know, I hadn't like it hadn't
started getting really fast. You know, it was just kind
of that slow circle where it was like, oh, this
this is probably you know. I feel like it was
like right when it was going to start going, you know,
but it was just so.
Speaker 1: But you're married. So did your husband drink too or
did he not drink? Yes, he did drink and he's
a total normy. So I always say my husband, this
is how I know that I am an alcoholic because
my husband, to him, alcohol is a flavor. It's like
what do I feel like having in my mouth? Do
I want some water or some soda or some wine
or you know, it's just like it's unfathomable to me.
And he's a guy that will, you know, like he
takes you know, two hours to have a glass of
wine or maybe he'll leave half of it or something
like that. But he, he and I you know, would
drink wine together and like toward the end, at one point,
we were you know, starting to kind of I guess
b wine tasters or that was what I said that
we were doing, and he was.
Speaker 2: Like, you know what I read. I read that at
the ninety nine cents store they actually have like really
good wine, so we should try like getting those wines.
And I was like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea. Yeah,
and he would bring home wine and he would taste
it and be like, oh, that's gross, and I was like,
I guess our palettes are just really different because it's fine.
And then I would just drink all the wine and
he would not, so be like we should use this
for cleaning and You're like, I'm fine with it. Yeah,
I think it's fine. Now it's really good.
Speaker 1: So you say that you were really private, but did
he notice that you drank too much? Did you drink
in secret? Did you wait till you went to bed?
Tell me what happened?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of It kind of went from when
he started saying like, I feel like you're you're drinking,
like I've never known you to drink to cope with
things or to you know. He was starting to point
it out, like this is not like like we have
another friend and he was like, you staid like her,
and I was like, I am not like her.
Speaker 1: She No, there's no way.
Speaker 2: And so that's when I was like, oh, I better
like watch it because he's starting to notice. So then
I would you know, do the things like when we
were you know, puying the glasses in the kitchen, but
pouring myself some extra and drinking it before, you know.
And then and then at the end, I was like
hiding pills. I was hiding ambient in you know, and
whiskey in my back office, and I would go out
there and just like have these little private parties. You know.
My husband would go to bed. And this was when
we were both working pretty hard, you know, from home
but doing you know, like producing and YouTube producing and
stuff like that. So it was valid that I'd be like,
I have so much work to do, but instead I,
you know, would you also do the work sometimes? And
sometimes I That's how I started to notice that I
had a problem because I would start having are they
brown outs? Is that what they're do? People them that,
like not full on blackouts where I was just like, oh,
I'd have no idea what happened, but I would just
be like I sent that email, oh oh, and then
like it would kind of seep back in, you know,
or I'd be like like I remember one night when
he was out of town, you know, I woke up
and there was like a roast beef out on the
counter and I was like what And I was like, oh, yes, yes,
I do remember. I do remember getting that out eating
that now, you know. But it was like it would
it would take a minute, right, and then like one
of the big things that happened and this was not
when I quit, but this was just something that happened,
was I you know, I so ambien was my drug
of choice. I didn't really That's why I didn't really
know I had a problem because I always hung out
with you know, like theater people, and and I started
drinking just because I was a kid who was really
insecure and I needed to feel like I was cool.
And when people saw me drinking, they were like, oh,
I've had the wrong impression of you. And I said,
that's right, I'm so cool.
Speaker 1: And this is how young.
Speaker 2: In high school. So like I the first time I
ever really drank with girlfriends I had, we had I
think it was like Bartles and James. We had got
we had like shoulder tapped some guy and we went
to a dance and we were in the bathroom and
literally there were four of us in four bottles and
everybody was like took a sip and was like, oh no,
and I was like, I'll then then I'll do it.
And I just drank all the bottles and I got
really wasted and went up to a boy that I
had a crush on and said, why am I go
out with me? And he was like okay, and his
friend was like, come on, let's go. And I was
just like, you leave them alone. This guy answer, why
didn't you go out with me? And it was mortifying,
so mortifying, But that's so yeah.
Speaker 1: So I went one time, I went to a blogging
conference and I got very drunk.
Speaker 2: This was this must have been toward the end of
my drinking.
Speaker 1: And I went up to this like a blogger who
at the time was like very famous, yeah yeah, and
I basically did a like I know who you are.
Your her name is Deuce. Do you remember Deuce? She
passed away. She was a very famous early blogger. Anyway,
I was like, I.
Speaker 2: Know you are, and I'm Stephanie. And I wrote a
book and I it was. I woke up the next
day and was just like, oh, I did please please
Let that have been just like a dream. Now I
did that at the worst. Oh, That's where I was
going with this whole story, is that I, so I started.
I started taking Ambient because my mom gave me one.
She was like, this new drugs come out. It's amazing.
You can go to sleep and you wake up and
you don't have any hangover and it's just and I
was like great. And I was acting at the time,
so it's like, why don't you give me a couple
And I'll take one one night just to make sure
that it doesn't like have any effects the next morning,
and then I'll have it in case. Occasionally I would
book a job and they'd be like, your call time
is five, and I'd be like, ugh, So I take
an ambient. My parents are visiting us, and my mom goes,
you have to go to bed, and I was like
I will, but I'm like working on my computer and
I take this sambient. About half an hour later, I
look in all of the letters on my keyboarder going
we're just like squiggling around, and I was like, oh,
what is happening? And then when I stood up, I
just had like it was like the most delicious feeling
I ever felt in my entire life. I was like, oh, wow,
this is great. So I was really into Ambient and
when I would go to my parents' house, I would
steal it. And then one night I was I was
visiting them without Greg's as before well, everything obviously was
before I had Charlie, because I've been sober since before
I had him, But this was I was visiting without
Greg and we were playing cards and I had like
an ambient and two glasses of wine, and I just
started passing out at the table, like I could feel.
I was just like, oh no, And so I was like,
I gotta I gotta go, Okay, good night, I gotta go.
And I go back in the guest bedroom and then
I was like, I have to pee, but I oh,
I am peeing. Oh I'm peeing right now, and I'm
standing in my suitcase and I'm peeing, and now h
I went underwear. I don't really know. I'm so out
of it. So I take off my underwear. I walk
into the front room no pants, just a shirt, holding
my wet underwear, and luckily my dad had gone to bed,
and my mom's like, what are you doing? And I
was like, oh, I I need a baggy and she
was so she's like, follows me into the room, and
you know, I put the under in a bag, and
I basically like passed out. I was like, Mom, I fine,
because she was like, what's going on. It's like, I'm fine,
just and I passed out. And then I woke up
the next morning and I thought it was a dream
like but it was so awful because one thing at
a time came back and I was just like, ah,
that was so wait a minut oh no, and then
I realized that it had really happened, and it's like, oh,
so that was did you tell like, did your mom
say anything? Yes? And this is part of why, like
I could just keep doing things because I said. She
came in and she said, you tangled in your suitcase
and I said, I know, Mom, I took an ambient
and she's, oh, okay, that explains it, because for whatever reason,
some people just don't, you know, have any reaction to ambient.
But my mom and I react the same, which is
weird because I'm adopted, so it's not genetic. But one
time she took an ambient when this is when I relapsed. Actually,
I was there helping my dad take care of he
had just had surgery. My dad wakes me up a
two o'clock in the morning and He's like, come in
the house because they have like a side house. And
I go in and my mom's just like sitting there,
and my dad said, your mother took some ambient. I
don't know where she found it. And my mom looks
at me and she goes, you look like sand made
of sand. Oh no, she goes, you look terrible. Okay,
So we discovered that she had she had had some
timeless ambient in her dresser drawers. So this was during
my relapse, right, So I had gone there to help
take care of my dad. I started stealing pills from
him because he wasn't taking his pain pills. And then
I found a bunch of ambient because I was helping
clean up because they're kind he's kind of a hoarder.
And I found all this ambient and so I was
taking it. So it's like, this was after four and
a half years of sobriety. I'm all over the place
with my story. I'm sorry, I don't care, I'm loving it.
So I had quit my job. I stopped, you know,
I mean, I wasn't going to as many meetings as
they should to just I was just basically a newcomer.
Brain again, like what am I doing with my life?
So I go steal pills. I get this ambient, and
then my mom does this and I'm supposed to go
home the next day, but I go into her bedroom
where my dad says, maybe it's in here. I go
and I find like a dual pack. She's taken one,
and I am like, okay, I found it, and I
go in the bathroom and I flush the toilet and
I eat the ambient. It's like two o'clock in the
morning and I have to drive home the next day,
and I was still probably like it was not I
shouldn't have been driving what it did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So when I take ambient, not currently I haven't.
I mean when I took ambient, like many years ago,
probably twenty five years ago, when I tried ambient for
and I went to sleep. So yeah, I guess people
react to it differently. No different, yeah, no, different than
like taking benadryl for me, Yeah, like yeah, no for me, hired,
fell asleep, woke up.
Speaker 2: No, I don't know, a special feeling. Yep, it was
like miles unfair. I know it does feel unfair, but
I mean it is funny though, because every people are like,
you know, Benzo people or let's see other I don't know,
but you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Atavan well yeah, Ballium, Yeah, I start listing off like
a hundred. But I also did love h Xenix. I
was a big Xanax person. But but I don't feel
like I ever got high off of Xanax. I just
felt like my thing I think this is different than
ambient is that when I took Xanax, I was like,
oh my god, I feel so normal, right, Like, why
doesn't everybody just take like I couldn't believe that other
people didn't feel like felt like this all the time,
because you know what I'm saying, I didn't like some
people would be like, oh if I took a Xanax,
I would just fall asleep. But I took a Xanax
and I was like, I could I could totally get
to work, hold on for one moment, please. So I
was just saying that I would take a Xanax and
feel completely fine, and and to me that was so magical.
I wasn't high. I didn't feel good. I just felt
like relaxed, like oh, I could drive, I could do
a job, you know, And I was like, well, why
wouldn't people take this every single day for the rest
of their lives. If it means you just get to
live life with no anxiety. The problem is that I
am an addict. So I did have to take then
I would have to take it every single day, right,
I wouldn't have that effect, but did you?
Speaker 2: Because that's how I That's how I feel about being
on antidepressants because so many people are like, you're not
really sober, and you know, you're not supposed to take
anything that affects you above the head. But when you have,
when you like truly have depression and like that serotonin imbalance,
it's it's exactly that, you know, Like I used to
just be like I would wake up and be like,
oh my god, I you know, everything is awful and
I know what's going on, and I just would cry,
you know. And now I wake up and I'm like
a normal person because my serotonin is like normal.
Speaker 1: This is a great topic that you just brought up.
And I will say that the difference is for sure
with xanax. If one makes me feel really normal and fine,
then it gets into your head of like, well, two
would make me feel like extra relaxed, and nobody does
that with antidepressants, you don't go like, if this dose
makes me feel not depressed, maybe I'll just take three,
but I'll feel really not depressed. So it's different.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, no, it's absolutely different. But did you then yes,
because you developed a tolerance or was it because you
were like, oh, I think I need to feel a
little bit better.
Speaker 1: Yes, because I would be like, I like downers. I
love to feel chill, so I would think, oh, well,
I feel chill like this was Xannnix takes the edge
off and makes me feel like no anxiety. So if
I took a little bit more and combine that with
a glass of wine, then I would feel very relaxed,
like even better than a glass of wine. It would
just help. It would elevate the glass of wine so
that I wouldn't have to have three glasses of wine, yes,
which I would still have three glasses of wine. You
didn't have to, but I just would. I mean, it's
just the difference is like an addict brain. I mean,
they're okay, I'll put it to you this way. I
have taken benadryl in sobriety when I've had like a
couple of sleepless nights, and I've been like, I really
need to sleep through the night. I've never one time
ever been like, well, if two Benadryls helps me sleep
through the night, maybe I'll take it during the day,
or maybe I'll take another one. Like I've never that's
never crossed my mind. It doesn't make me feel good,
you know what I'm saying. There's just I think I
think Xanax makes people feel good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And if you do take two xanax, you are
going to feel out of it. So even though I'm
not going to feel like euphoric or like a drunk
feeling or a vicoin feeling, I'm still going to feel
oh yeah, I feel altered.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. I don't think that anti depressants they don't
alter you. They don't. But people who don't have depression
sometimes I think that they are under the mistaken I
think they're you know, under the mistaken impression that that
is what happens that you take them. Those people are elevated.
Speaker 1: Right, those people are incorrect.
Speaker 2: They are wrong.
Speaker 1: And there are no bosses in twelve step programs or
recovery groups, like there's nobody should tell you.
Speaker 2: It's up to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly nowhere in the I listen. I'm a big proponent.
I was on a healthy dose of Zoloft when I
got sober, And the only reason I weaned off of
Zoloft was not because had anything to do with sobriety.
It was just because, like I had been on it
for a really long time, and I just thought, like,
I've never been sober, so maybe I don't have depression
because I didn't have depression when I was younger. I
didn't feel like I had clinical depression. I felt like
I had postpartum depression and post part of anxiety. So
then i'd been on it for a while, you know
what I'm saying. So and I got off of it
really slowly, and I was fine, oh wow, But if
I just felt depressed again, I would take it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because I when I first came
to twelve Step, I had, you know, I had a
sponsor who was like far away because they're like, find
somebody who you want what they have, and I really
like this woman, but she lived like on the other
side of town, and so it didn't work out. And
so then when I got sponsor I have now, she
was like, can you try to, you know, to go
off the end of deepressants and just seek exactly what
you said for the exact reason that you said, like
maybe you're just not used to it. And so I
was like, yeah, absolutely, and I did it, and just
all the depression came back for realsies, and I was
trying really hard to just kind of white knuckle it.
But you know, my husband at one point he was
just like, I understand why you're doing this, but you
have to understand that this is not you, you know,
because I was just back in that thing where I
would just you know, my emotions were crazy and I
was just crying all the time, you know. And he
was like, you don't just sit around and cry. It's
not you know, It's like okay and so and you know,
and of course she was fine with that. She just
wanted to see if it was like a dependency. There's
so much that we think we need. When I first
got sowherre started smoking again because I was like, you know,
even though I hadn't, even though I was a periodic drinker, well,
first of all, my drinking was getting you know, more
and more and more, so I was probably drinking close
to you know, every day, but just not a lot,
you know, because my husband was there. But I was
drinking a lot more like I was having periods where
I would be like, ash, I guess I better stop
drinking for a while because it's and I would blame
it on you know, I'm sorry, everything's all my things
are going off. I would blame it on, you know,
like weight gain, be like, well, I just feel like
I'm getting too much weight, so I have to stop
drinking so much wine. But I was just drinking too
much wine. Forgot why I was saying this. Why am
I saying this? What am I talking about?
Speaker 1: Well, you were talking about as as you're drinking, was
getting worse that you were. I think you were going
to be talking about feeling unhappy.
Speaker 2: I don't remember. I got texts and then I just
tell well, let you know what.
Speaker 1: I think it will come back to you if you
tell me, if you tell me this.
Speaker 2: So were you did?
Speaker 1: You said earlier that your husband said you're drinking to cope.
So were you in a period when you're drinking escalated
where work was, where your life was feeling difficult or
do you feel like you'd always drink a bit too much.
Speaker 2: I feel like there was. It was definitely ramping up.
So I always drank. I always use drugs, but you know,
alcohol was not my drug of choice for a long time.
You know, when I was in college, you know, I
did a lot of college drinking and stuff like that.
But then after that, I was really a pot had
bring years, you know, like that's what I wanted to do.
So while I had friends who's you know, they would
be drunk and getting drunker and I would just you know,
be high and watching them. So that was kind of
what I was doing for a long time. And then
I think what happened is so my husband is a
normy and I think I really wanted to just be normal,
and so we got married and I just thought, Okay,
now I'll just be fine, you know, like marriage, this
will cure everything. And then all the behaviors started going
on the ground. It just you know, like we do,
it just kind of started coming out sideways, right. So
then I started drinking more and I'd never really been
a drinker like to that extent.
Speaker 1: But I did you feel like you couldn't smoke pot
around him? I?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't. I had kind of quit everything because
he's such a super straight arrow. Oh that's what I
was talking about, that I stopped smoke, that I started
smoking again, because yes, thank you. So even though I
wasn't drinking a lot, I realized when I had to
stop everything that I had never been with out something.
You know. It was either I was allowed to drink
or I was just like, you know, taking something at night,
or I was I mean, honestly, when I stopped drinking,
I would drink coffee to the point of where I
almost couldn't function, just because I needed to feel altered.
And I hadn't realized how much I needed that and
how much I'd been doing that for years. And then
I also started smoking again, which I had quit smoking
when I met my husband, and although I cheated a lot,
but I started again. You know, I was just like,
I have to do something, you know, I can't just
be like me. You know, that's that feeling that we
have when you just you feel too raw. It's like
I can't just go around with nothing between me and
the world. Like that's crazy. Yeah, I mean it is
a nightmare. It's are first. So yeah, so I just
built on, you know, more stuff that I could have,
and I you know, and I just needed that because
for me, I mean I definitely you know, it's physiological.
I you know, I respond differently to drugs and alcohol
than people who are not alcoholics. But at the same time,
for me, there's such there was such a an emotional like, uh,
you know, that whole needing to fit in thing, really
really feeling insecure, which is the word, you know, feeling inadequate,
feeling like I didn't measure up, like all that stuff
was was was with me so young, and then all
I wanted was to like fit in. And so when
I could start doing these things, that was such a
big part of it. You know, before there was an
addictive part. It was just like I need something to
be I need, you know, like like oh, I'll smoke
pot and all smoke cigarettes and I'll do all this
stuff because you guys do it, and I need so
much to fit in too, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting because your husband didn't do that, so
then you were doing it alone. So it's not even
like peer pressure or you're doing it when you're socializing, right,
I would do things like I would I would like
if he wasn't with me. It's funny because you know,
these are things like I kind of discounted and then
I look back and I go like, oh, yeah, because you.
Speaker 2: Know, we were both in the same theater company. And
then there would be nights where you know, he would
go home or maybe he wasn't recurssing that night or whatever,
and then I would stay and I would just drink
and I would have like, you know, three or four
glasses of wine, which for me, you know, it's a
lot to drive home on. And then he would be like,
how much did you drink? And then I'd be like, oh,
I just had a couple of glasses, you know. Or
I'd be like, well, I was there for you know,
I metabolized that over six hour or whatever. But you
know I was lying. I was. I was driving home
like pretty drunk. You know. Yeah, same same story.
Speaker 1: I would go to the improv and do stand up
and then get in my car and drive over the hill,
drive over Laurel Canyon after having probably like three big martinis.
You know, I would either do stand up or just
be there to hang out, drink some big drinks, drive home,
and my husband's same thing would be and I would
say the same thing, no, but I had it earlier
in the evening. I timed it out. I was fine
when I left.
Speaker 2: Yep, yep, yep, absolutely yeah, a lot of math in
my head. Okay, so when did so? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So when did it start? It starts to ramp up
and then at the ambient at the same time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the ambient, I think is what really
kind of took it over, you know, over into something else.
And did you ever get it from a doctor or
did you steal it all from your parents? No? No,
then I then I got it from a doctor, and
I was, you know, just say it was a great
story of like, oh, I'm an actor and I won't
really take it, but I'll just have it around, you know.
But then I would take it all. So and then
we do doctor shop because you usual, they're pretty night
on that. I know. I didn't get that far, so
it wasn't like that, you know, that bad yet, so
like I could kind of hang in between, but like,
you know, like I would do things like I was
working on, you know, a web series that I was writing,
and I was like, I need to go. I can't
be in our house in where on this I have
to go away, you know, and my and like I
made it logical, so he was like, oh, yeah, just go,
you know. So I went to like a hotel, you know,
like in Woodland Hills for a weekend, and I would
and I wrote during the day, like I wrote everything,
and then at night I would just like, you know,
but no, and I was done, Like I call and
be like I'm done. I love you. And then I
would like ambient wine cigarettes, like to the point where
I was almost passing out, and I would just be like,
you can't pass out. You can't pass out while you're
out by the pool. You have to get back in
the room, you know, just like crazy, like you know,
it made sense at the time, and I was just like,
but actually, honestly, that was the first time that I
feel like I heard a voice in my head that
wasn't mine saying when I was like standing in front
of the wine, you know, before i'd gone checked into
the hotel, and I just really heard a voice kind
of go like I think you have a problem, And
it was really like a distinct, like in my head,
like not me voice, and I was just like, yeah, probably, yeah,
but just deal with that later because I want to
have fun this weekend.
Speaker 1: So it's amazing that we think that's so fun though too,
you know, I know.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing. It's like, it's such a sad
you know, because now you know, I don't know. It's
so weird, isn't it. Because my life is by by
a lot of accounts, it's pretty boring. But I love
being in it. I love it. I love being present
and I can do so much and it's just, you know,
it's something that I think back at that time, I
would have thought like, oh my god, I will kill
myself if I ever have that life, you know. But
I think it's just because I didn't know who I
was at all at all. And I think that's the
scariest thing for me about you know. I mean from
the time that I started drinking and using until the
end and I was thirty nine when I stopped drinking.
You know, like, that's a long time to not know
who you are. It's a long time to you know,
be looking around and feeling like you're, you know, just
faking it in literally every situation. You know.
Speaker 1: It's well, I was forty two and already had three
kids and felt like I think for me, for me,
the thing is that I now want the life I had.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean I can't. I feel like, you know,
we're really lucky that we did it so early because
you know, I mean, we have such great relationships with
our kids because we're so present, you know, but easily.
I mean, you know, I hear all the time people
who are like, you know, well I drink because it
was so dang boring, you know, like I had to
have a glass of wine to get through like the
legos or to get through the whatever. And I totally
one hundred percent get that. Like I get it. You
know if I have, if I have, if I wasn't sober,
like that would have been me absolutely, you know, if
I hadn't gotten sober before I had a kid, because yeah,
I mean there's times when you're just like.
Speaker 1: Because that is the thing people don't realize though, is that,
Like I am not mad at anybody who's a mom
who has kids and is like, I gotta I gotta
get a little drink in me before I play with
a dollhouse, because who cares?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Because for me, it wouldn't be about like I
just need to kind of unwind and be here. It's
more like I just don't want to be here. I
just need to, you know, I just need to, Like
I'll I'll be here with my body and my voice
and all this stuff like that'll be happening, but my
brain will be so checked out and not engaged. And
that's you know, everything Everything was like isn't this good enough?
Speaker 3: Like yeah, I'm here, I showed up for the legos,
Like okay, come on, yeah yeah, so but now we
don't have to worry. So okay, So take me back though,
So you're having ambient it's getting a little out of
control because you told me the when you tinkled in
the suitcase, it was bad, but you said that wasn't
your bottom, No, it was.
Speaker 2: Gosh, I don't even remember when that was, but it
was still months before, so my bottom was. And it's
so funny that you had this in your trunks, you know,
when you're talking about John, that you had the the
what was it the blow what did he call it? Nap? Cocknap? Yeah, yeah,
I was dining. Yeah I didn't take a cock nap,
but I apparently like I did some cock dozing. I
just kind of nowed off a little bit. It was
just like a nodding because it was our fourth wedding anniversary.
This is what this is what brought me into twelve step. Wow,
this is great. Uh huh yeah, so our fourth wedding anniversary.
He's going to kill me for like putting this out
in it. It's not his fault.
Speaker 1: It makes you look bad, not him.
Speaker 2: I know he do.
Speaker 1: He was just laying there probably exactly we're standing there.
I don't know what he was.
Speaker 2: I don't remember. That's the problem. Was my first, true, true,
true black hour. I was like horrified the next day.
But so it was our anniversary, and uh we celebrated
with a bottle of wine and he had like, you know,
half a glass and I had the whole rest of
So I was feeling pretty good on the way home,
and then I make up some excuse about what I
need in the office because I need to go take
an ambient And then I get back there and I'm like,
you know, I've been taking them for a while and
one hasn't really been doing anything, so I probably should
take two. So I took too, and then like probably
ten minutes later, I blacked out. Like all I remember
was him coming in to like I went back in
the house. I remember sitting down and then I remember,
you know, Greg had like an anniversary card that my
parents had sent me and we started to read it
together and like that's the last I remember. And then
the next morning I woke up and something was like
like I think I was like dressed or something like
there was something weird, and I was like, what happened
last night? And then he was like so happy and
he was like thank you for last night, and I
really was. I was like, what are you talking about?
And I think no. What I said was are you kidding?
And he was like are you kidding? Like you know?
And I was like that So like that's the moment, right,
that's the moment where they say, like it wasn't like
I didn't make the decision to tell the truth, like
you know something. That was my moment of like, okay,
something else is happening, because I would have just said like, yeah,
I'm totally kidding, like and just continued. But for whatever reason,
in that moment, I was like this is like, you know,
this is the my fifty six year old brain Loos's words,
but anyway, like this is a this is the turning point, right, So.
Speaker 1: So did you feel because I totally get this, but
he's not mad. Was it just was it shame?
Speaker 2: Was it?
Speaker 1: Like, Wow, I cannot believe I just don't remember the evening. Yeah,
that's scaring me.
Speaker 2: It was a combination of the fact that I remembered
absolutely nothing, the fact that but I think the I
think it was really more about the fact that it
was our anniversary and it was supposed to be you know,
the celebration and love and and I and you know,
and instead it was really clear cut like I didn't
want to be with my husband. I wanted to be
checked out, and I checked out so much overshot the mark,
as we say, right that I just had that all
of the connection was severed, and it was just and
I had been feeling, like I said, because it had
been escalating, I had been feeling more and more like
that's where I want to be. I don't want to
be with him. I just want to be sitting next
to him. But in my own ouch checked out head
and so I just knew that was not going to
go well, you know, because the thing about my husband
is like he's so he's the best guy, but he
also like he does not tolerate a lot of bullshits,
So he he would have for a little bit, but
he wouldn't have for a long time, you know what
I mean. So I was just like, I'm going to lose.
I'm going to lose all this and it's not going
to be good. So it was that was the moment
where I was just like, I think, I think I
need to reconcile this.
Speaker 1: So did you tell him right then and there?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, they say he was really shocked. And then
and I also told him, you know, because there was
so much do you know the forum of course, yeah,
So we had done that, I think the previous summer,
and I think so I think, like the tinkling thing happened.
And then we did the Landmark Forum, and I was
so depressed and I was just like anything, I will
try anything. So we do the Landmark Forum, and like
in one of their little things, you have to like
tell the truth about everything. So I told him, like,
I been stealing ambient from my parents, I've stole drugs
from you. I'm I'm like continuing to steal drugs from you.
So like if you have drugs in the house, you
have to hide them. And he was like, oh, oh okay,
oh well, thank you for telling me, you know, thank
you for being so honest. And then slowly, like over
you know, the next few months, I realized that and
I told my parents too, but I realize all of
them are normal, so they don't really notice and they
don't really understand. So, you know, my parents, I was like,
you have to count your ambient. If I'm there, you
have to And then I realized, like they're not, it
doesn't matter. So I just slowly started doing it again,
right and then like my husb and would hide stuff
and I was like, the house is finite, you know,
there's not a black hole you can put stuff in.
So like Easter every day for you, You're like, okay,
the game, give me a basket. Yeah, so you know.
Speaker 1: So that's so then you so you said to him, uh,
well no, I'm up to my old tricks. Yeah. And
it's wild that you probably felt so nervous after doing
this Landmark Forum thing and like I'm going to admit
this and then you're like, wait, nobody's even that mad.
Speaker 2: Exactly. And I was like, and that's why that's my problem.
That's why I'm so sneaky. And that's what happened when
I relapsed too, because it's just that thing of like,
you know, nobody around me really notices, you know, because
I can be super sneaky. So it's really not about
how is it impacting my life and the people I love.
It's about, you know, how how I am and how
I'm just not functioning in the world. You know, I'm
just being like a.
Speaker 1: Robot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what's the valley of the doll? One of
the ladies went, they'repord wife Depford wife.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well tell me what happened though, Okay, So you
so you're like, I'm done. I've gotta i gotta fix
this problem. I got to reconcile that as you say,
what what's your next step? What'd you do?
Speaker 2: I called somebody who I knew was in a twelve
step program and it was not for ambion or alcohol,
but I was the only person that I knew, and
he was like, okay, well and he didn't know either
because he did because I was like, I'm having problems
with these pills. And so he sent me to a
an NA meeting. So I go to this NA meeting
like in the middle of the day. This is kind
of hardcore. I'm just picturing you. It was hilarious. It
was honestly, it was like a sketch. And that's the thing.
At the time I even knew, I was like this
is weird, Like this feel like I'm because it was
me and like everybody else, uh yeah, there were no
other females. It was just me and a bunch of men,
like a handful of men, maybe like seven or eight guys,
and like one guy who shared he was just like
every other word about of his mouth was you know,
fucking this and that, but it was all solution, which
is hilarious. And he's just like, I don't fucking know,
I don't understand my fucking higher power. But all I
do is I just wake them where I fucking prey
and I do the deal and it fucking works, and
I don't fucking know why. You know, it was hilarious,
and I was like okay. And then there was like
a guy like who was uh probably I don't know
what he was on in the corner, and then he
raised his hand and he like mumbled his entire share
and you could not hear any words that he said,
except every once in a while you could hear like
magic back. And then you're still and it was really
like you know, at the time, even I was like,
this is like a comedy sketch, and then you know,
this is how like insecure I am so at the end,
I go up and because I took a newcomer Chip
and uh, I was leaving and somebody came up to me,
you know, and he's like some like hardcore tatted up guy.
You know, he's probably like a Chrystal apect. I have
no idea, and he was like, hey, you got a
day and I go Day's not over yet. Man, I
love it. Did he laugh or was he No? He
probably was you were kidding. I was earnestly trying to
fit in, right. I was like, oh, you know like
god willing. Yeah yeah, I mean I know he's just
gonna go home to my husband and go to bed.
But you know, this is I was like, I have
to justify why I'm here. I'm so tough. Yeah so
so then what so? Then? And it's funny because then
I my friend who had called. He said that he
hung up the phone because his wife is uh, twelve
step from him, and he's like, I sent her to
NA and she was like, why did you do? He's like,
I don't know. I thought that's because she said she
like pills. It seemed like that was more narcotic. And
she was like oh no, and she was like, well,
she'll figure it out. So luckily I did. How'd you
figure it out?
Speaker 1: So did you call someone else? Well?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, so my Jane is my eskimo. She
gets me like somebody, so yeah, she'll be before you. Yeah, okay, okay. So,
so Jane had told me that she was going to
some meetings and she's a director, so I assumed they
were just all, you know, meetings about projects and then
and then at one point she told me what they
were and I was like huh. And so then I
think I called her and I was like, I I
want to go to your meetings with you. So although
there were a couple I went to. At first, I
think so my friend he was in a different program,
but I think he was also I think he was
also an Allen And this sounds like a very Allen
one thing because he told me a you know, look
for the similarities, not the differences, and he said there's
going to be a lot of talk about God and
if that freaks you out, then just know it can
be anything. It's it's just you know, a power grader
than yourself, and one other person can be a power
greater than yourself. So just like, don't let that throw
you if that's something you're not into. And then he
also said and go I think he said go to
six meetings. And I don't know where he got that number,
and I've got said maybe he did. I just pull that.
He's like, I gotta say more than one, because one
you're not going to go back, but like the seven
is a whole week. That seems like too much of
a commitment. Fine would be like, yeah, I feel like
the sixth.
Speaker 1: One will do it that it'll kick in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that'll be like me, if she goes to six,
she'll want to go to the seven. So so yeah,
so he said just go to go to six at least,
and so I did. And then at some point it
called Jane and you know, and then I went to
like this meeting that I still go to now where
I heard somebody share about ambient and I didn't know
that was a thing. I thought it was only me,
of course, like we always think it's only yes, Like
you're the only one that ever drove drunk with kids
in your car and I'm the only person that ever
abused ambient and yeah, so yeah, so that was and.
Speaker 1: Then and then things were then you were like off
to the races sober.
Speaker 2: Yes you were.
Speaker 1: You did pretty good job. We were friends, We hung out.
I want to do Wait, what's your what's your date?
May twenty second, two thousand and nine.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, so, and my I originally was in January.
Originally it was Yeah, originally it was June thirteenth, two
thousand and eight. And then I went out on one
ambient that I got that I stole from my brother
in law's medicine cabinet, like four months late, like right
before I had nine months. I did that and then
I reset, And so that's when we met, because I
had February okay, okay, and two thousand and nine. So
then things went along and you're like doing the deal.
Speaker 1: And I mean, the relapse happened just because, like you say,
you know, I just wanted to talk about this for
like a second. Uh heard this in a meeting recently
about the shame of relapsing, you know, And the only
reason that we even have a relapse is because we're sober.
So I feel like that's kind of a win in
and of itself, you know, instead of the shame of like,
oh and then I did this thing again. It's like, yeah,
this thing that you were doing every single day for
years and years and years until you had the courage
and you figured out a way to stop doing it,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh yeah, absolutely, And I mean that is the
great thing too, though, You're right, because we don't shoot
our wounded. So I mean, I think, you know, it's
I think it's a shame that we perpetuate for ourselves
because when I came in, like nobody was anything but
kind to me, and there were people that honestly I
didn't really think liked me that would come up and
give me a hugs and say they were so glad
that I was back, and I was just like, oh, oh,
you know, like because the world revolves around us, right,
so about me? So I think everybody's gonna hate me,
and I think i'll you know, but I learned, so
I'm actually, you know, I'm glad I relapsed because I
I wouldn't have had the program that I have now
because I think what was happening was well, there were
two things one I was I was still sort of
in that mind frame of like, well, I'll just you know,
I check off these things and I'm doing them all right,
and as long as i'm doing them all right, I'll
just stay sober, right, but which you can do. But there's,
you know, there's more to it. So like I didn't
really have any sort of higher power, you know, I
was just I was sort of like I'm just showing up.
I'm just doing this, I'm just doing that and check
check check check check. But the main thing for me
was just the ego, the breaking down of the ego, like,
you know, because I had I was so insecure for
so long, and then I came out here and you know,
for the first time, I had this job that was
like fulfilling this need that I had ever since I
was a kid for like attention, and oh look I'm
part of something big and you know, and it wasn't
something that I created, but I was helping. So I
was like adjunct to this big deal thing, right, and
so I was so miserable doing it, but I couldn't
stop it because I was still getting my hit, you know,
of like we'd go to comic Con and it would
be like a huge deal and I'd be you know,
the intoxicating, right it was. I would get to feel
intoxicated by all this like adjunct fame and all these
people going like, oh, you're part of this thing, and
that was really like I have a hard time with
it still, Like that's that's part of why I can't
do stand up anymore. It's part of why I'm just
focusing on like figuring out my schedule to just you know,
get my kid fed and exercise and things like that.
Because if I have like this inkling of like I'm
gonna maybe somebody's going to notice me, it Like that's
an addiction too for me. I can't just be like, oh, yeah,
I'm just going to do the work and then if
something happens great.
Speaker 1: It's like.
Speaker 2: If you do the work, then you'll get really pay
miss and then everybody will know, you know. I mean,
it's just like it just grows so fast me and
I get it. It's gross. I don't like it and
it scares me. So it just because it feels like
part of my disease definitely. So that's that's a big
deal of why I relapsed, I think is because I
really hadn't worked all that out of my system, if
that makes sense. And so when I went out and
then I and then I knew that I was out,
it wasn't like I don't know, I wasn't in a
healthy I guess you're never in a healthy place when
you go out. But it's like, I feel like I
had never even corrected that part of what was broken
in me. You know. It's like I was just doing
all the things, checking all the boxes, and just still
dragging that baggage behind me instead of like, you know,
the point of working the steps is that you get
rid of you know, you take the inventory and you
get rid of that stuff, right right. I don't think
I had really been willing to look at it and
really understand it for what it was until I didn't
have it anymore. And then because I really was, it
this place of like, oh my god, I don't have
this anymore. So now again I don't know who I am.
I don't have an identity because people would be like, so,
you're you're not doing that anymore, but I bet you
have like a big project, right and I bet you
you're gonna do this big thing. And I was like
I feel like nothing and nobody because I don't have
a big thing and I don't know what I'm doing,
and I felt like I was, you know, faking it
through that whole thing. So were you?
Speaker 1: I hate to open up a whole other topic, but
I'm just curious. Were you in the process of like
trying to have a baby at.
Speaker 2: That point too? Yes, so yeah, maybe that played into
it as well. Yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. I mean
there was so much happening, so yes, you're right, I was.
I guess it was around two thousand and six, like
I called you because you had you know, I asked
for your doctor recommendation. I think it was around two
thousand and six or no, wait, no, we didn't know
each other then, so no, I didn't get sober till nine.
I must have. I think I changed doctors at some
point because I had been doing it before I met you,
and then I and then I met you, and I
changed doctors. So yeah, I mean that's such a hard
thing to deal with as well. You know, as you know,
I don't know how many times you did.
Speaker 1: You because she did not have any No, I you
might have me confused because I didn't use I didn't.
Speaker 2: I just got pregnant. I think you were those people
that irritates people. I think that's right. I forgot that.
I read that. I knew that because of your book,
but I think you gave me the name of somebody
that was like everybody was using. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
My sister in law was like a rock star fertility guy.
Yeah that's who it was. Yeah, that's what it was.
So so I did switch over, but yeah, but I
had been doing it for a few years before that
as well, trying and failing.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and then you finally what so did you
adopt Charlie after your laps or before obviously after?
Speaker 2: Okay? Yeah, so my new Friday Day is twenty thirteen
October fifteen, twenty thirteen, and we adopted him in twenty sixteen, okay. Yeah,
And it was one of those things like I knew,
I knew that I wasn't technically supposed to like do
anything big in the first year, you know, year back,
but I started the adoption process anyway because I just like,
it's you got to do this. So but it was
a really long process, like I basically, you know, we
looked around at places in twenty thirteen, and then I
think in twenty fourteen, I was like, no, I actually
really want to do it. And then we took a
whole year. I don't know, the timeline's weird, but anyway,
it took a long time for us to kind of
get it all together. And then we went live in
twenty fifteen, and then we matched in the October of
twenty fifteen, and he's nine, Right, how did that happen?
That's amazing.
Speaker 1: Look at your life now.
Speaker 2: I know. And I have to say, you know, it's
funny because sometimes I'm like, well, I have a problem
with higher power stuff, But I when I really think
about it, like, you know, I did have a very
powerful experience when I was waiting for Charlie, you know,
because you know, my brain was just spinning and saying
you're not gonna You're not gonna get this, or it's
gonna be wrong, or it's gonna hate you or you
know all this stuff, and so like, I, you know,
did what we're supposed to do. It. I got him
in news and I prayed about it, and I just
got this message of like, how do you know it's
not going to be exactly what you want it to be,
which is a weird. I mean, it wasn't like blasted
into my head like that, but that's just kind of
like the message I got, Like like, who are you
to say that it's going to be wrong in all
these ways? Like couldn't it just be exactly the way
that you think it's going to be? So but it
was just it sounds dumb when I try to talk
about it, because it was a very spiritual experience, but
like I just got it at that point. I was like, right, right,
it's not it's not up to me, and something else
is doing it, and that's something just told me it's
going to be okay, and and then it did turn
out exactly the way I wanted it to be, So
that's so weird, which I also you know, I also
say like I don't I don't believe in Santa Claus God.
I don't believe like you know, he gives me a
parking space.
Speaker 3: And in front of you sometimes he does, but okay, yeah, okay,
all right, maybe he does.
Speaker 2: But so I don't think it's like that. But I
just feel like whatever whatever machinations are working that we
plug into, like I got a good message that day.
I feel like.
Speaker 1: What my higher power does is helps me do things
despite the fear. So I think I think for me,
fear gets in my way a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, the funny thing is with with
my sons, it was even more than that because the
woman who ended up being his birth mom is adopted,
and I'm adopted and Charlie's adopted, so this whole and
you know, I was adopted from Seoul, South Korea when
I was like fourteen months old, so you know, I
don't have any records, and I've been told that, you know,
if you spend a lot of money in a lot
of time, you possibly could figure out more stuff. But
ever since I was a kid, my parents were like,
these are all the records that we have, so we'd
help you more. Like they were never like how dare you?
Or you know, they're always very open about it. So
I think the way that my brain always processed it
was like, oh, okay, well I guess I can never know,
so that's off the table, you know, Like I just
it was fine. I didn't really think about it. But
there's something about having this little trifecta of me and
Charlie's birth mom and Charlie all being adopted that has
like settled something that I didn't know was unsettled, you know,
ill until it happened. So but yeah, it's just been
really wild because I mean it's just so perfect and people,
you know, I get it when people don't adopt, they
I'm so sorry I turned my stuff off when people
when people who haven't adopted, I think the biggest fear
for them from them is like are you what if
what if she changes her mind or what if Like
isn't it weird that like if you're still in touch
with her, which we are, Like what if she decides
that she you know, And it's like I get that
that might be a feeling if you haven't been adopted,
But since I was adopted, like my parents were always
just my parents period into story and so and that's
the same with Charlie's birth mom, Like you know, her
mom's just been her mom. It's not like you know, so,
so there's just this you know, implicit understanding like I'm
his mom and she's his birth mom and that's okay,
you know.
Speaker 1: And it's there's no like weird crossover. So and that's
just such a beautiful, like like it sounds healing. Yeah,
that it happened that way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really healing for me. I think it's really
healing for her. I think initially she was thinking like
maybe she you know, because we were like, whatever you
want to do, Like we would love to have an
open adoption, but if you decide that that's just you know,
not something that you're interested in, we totally get it.
And she was like, I need to kind of think
about it. But we got to hang out together when
he was born while we waited for like paperwork, so
you know, she would come over to the house that
we were at every day and like be with us,
and so we got to know each other a little.
And then she decided she wanted to come when he
was like six months old, and then you know, she
was like, maybe I'll just come once. But then after
that she was like, yeah, no, you know, so we
we haven't seen her in a while. But it's just
because like life since the pandemic seems so bizarre. It's like, oh,
we haven't seen her since that's been five years, and
now that's that's a long time.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's crazy. Yeah, maybe that's just how it's supposed
to be for her, Like maybe she needed to do
that to like because she's like, well, I'm.
Speaker 2: Not his mom, mm hmm, yeah, so but she's seen
him you know, several times, you know, before then and
then we you know, we're still in touch and these
pictures all the time, and you know the text and.
Speaker 1: So well, this has been so fun and uh, I
loved having this conversation with you. And and it's funny
because you know, I think I know a lot of
your story, but a lot of it felt kind of
new to me.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know that you a, yeah, yeah, it did.
It did.
Speaker 1: And it's so cool to have people like we've been
in each other's lives since, you know, we first got sober,
and it's nice to have that. I think it's it's
not rare, not in the circles that we run in,
but it's rare, I think in general for people to
get this and then just keep seeing each other grow
and change. And like, you know, I think we're both
pretty different than we were when we first got in.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, amazingly so. And you know, and it's funny
to think back about, you know, the people that we
were with and some people, you know, I don't know
if there's over or not, or some people have moved
and some people you know, So it's just it's really cool.
I know, I know.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Kim, and so tell us where can
we find Do you have any writing online?
Speaker 2: Do you have a sub stack? Are you doing medium? I?
You know what, you'll have to put it in your intro. Okay,
I honestly don't remember. I kind of stopped doing social
media after I stopped doing stand up. So okay, that's okay,
you're enough. You are enough, so I'm enough. But no,
I do have like I either have a substack or medium,
but I can't remember which one it is.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, your writing is very brilliant, so I'm going
to figure out how to turn people onto it either way.
Speaker 2: All right, thank you for being here, Thanks, thanks for
having me.
Speaker 1: Bye, Line, it is.
Speaker 2: Gotting me feeling Line is good?
Speaker 1: Is good again?
Speaker 3: I just good love
Speaker 2: Yet my god, time you got me