WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:04.000 With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 2 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:06.360 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. 3 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:09.240 Has anyone seen the bride and broom? Sri? 4 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:12.160 Sorry we're here. We were getting lucky in the limo 5 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:13.199 when we lost track of time. 6 00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:16.760 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 7 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:18.519 quicker than a guess registered Well. 8 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:21.760 In that case, I pronounce you lucky thanks for free. 9 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:25.199 At Lucky Landslots dot com. Daily bonuses are waiting. No 10 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:28.120 purchase necessary boid. We're prohibited by lock EIGHTEAM plus terms 11 00:00:28.120 --> 00:00:30.120 and conditions APPLAG see website for details. 12 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:32.920 It is Ryan here and I have a question for you. 13 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:35.079 What do you do when you win? 14 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:35.600 Like? 15 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:38.759 Are you at fist pumper, a wooo, a handclap or 16 00:00:38.799 --> 00:00:40.600 a high fiver? I kind of like the high five. 17 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:42.399 But if you want to hone in on those winning moves, 18 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:45.679 check out Chumbuck Casino At chumbacasino dot com choose some 19 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:48.399 hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to 20 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:52.200 redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly, 21 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:55.159 plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait. Start having the 22 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:58.359 most fun ever at Chumbuck Casino dot com nope. 23 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:01.000 We're not necessary dally revoid where everybody lost conditions eating. 24 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:05.120 Plus With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just 25 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:06.000 about anywhere. 26 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:08.319 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. 27 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:11.319 Has anyone seen the bride and groom? Sorry? 28 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:14.159 Sorry, we're here. We were getting lucky in the limo 29 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:15.200 and we lost track of time. 30 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:18.760 No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes that add up 31 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:19.959 quicker than a guess registered. 32 00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:22.400 In that case, I pronounce you lucky. 33 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:26.400 Play for free at lucky landslots dot com. Daily bonuses 34 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.120 are waiting. No purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by long 35 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:32.359 eighteen plus terms and conditions applying. See website for details. 36 00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:36.159 Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've 37 00:01:36.159 --> 00:01:36.879 gotten lucky? 38 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:39.680 Lucky in line at the Delhi I guess. 39 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:42.640 Ah, in my dentist's office more than once. Actually do 40 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:43.640 I have to say? 41 00:01:43.879 --> 00:01:44.319 Yes? You do? 42 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:47.040 In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? 43 00:01:47.239 --> 00:01:47.560 Really? 44 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:48.920 Yes, excuse me? 45 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:50.719 What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky? 46 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:52.519 I never win and tell. 47 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:53.439 Well, there you have it. 48 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:56.640 You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot com. 49 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:58.239 Play for free right now. 50 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:01.760 Are you feeling lucky. Nope, you necessary to. 51 00:02:02.400 --> 00:02:15.599 Get You are now listening to True Murder, The most 52 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:19.000 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 53 00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:25.280 have written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker, DTK. 54 00:02:26.159 --> 00:02:30.000 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 55 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:34.199 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 56 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:38.439 your host, journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 57 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:51.919 Good Evening. This real life tragedy began on a stormy 58 00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:55.039 night with a knock at the front door. A friend 59 00:02:55.080 --> 00:02:59.599 needed help with his car. What happened to Carl, Lisa, Gregory, 60 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:02.879 and Felie that night is worse than any fictional horror 61 00:03:02.919 --> 00:03:05.159 story you've ever read or seen on the big screen. 62 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:08.719 Little girls should never have to live in a barrel. 63 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:13.800 Award winning journalist and best selling author George Jared takes 64 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:16.400 readers on a gripping and chilling journey with his latest 65 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:21.199 true crime book, The Creek Side Bones, Realities more horrifying 66 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:26.080 than fiction. The book details how the Elliott family in Dalton, Arkansas, 67 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:29.439 lived in constant fear in the summer nineteen ninety eight, 68 00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:33.599 how they met their fates as ghastly. Jarrett covered two 69 00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:36.479 murder trials in connection with the case, and provides his 70 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:39.159 own theories as to how and why the Elliott family 71 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:42.840 was murdered. Four other murder cases are also detailed in 72 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:46.599 the book. Sidney Nicole Randall was a beauty pageant queen 73 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:49.520 about to enter high school when a monster stole her 74 00:03:49.520 --> 00:03:52.960 away in the dark. Bridget's Sellars was a mother of 75 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:55.560 three who vanished without a trace while on a walk 76 00:03:55.599 --> 00:04:01.159 down Peace Valley Road. Her fate is incomprehensible. Bob Castleman 77 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:04.599 was a respected attorney in Vietnam War vet until the 78 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:09.879 drugs murder, a live copperhead snake Native American artifact fraud 79 00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:13.599 consumed his life. The book also includes an update on 80 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:18.240 the unsolved Rebecca Gould case. Twenty two year old college 81 00:04:18.240 --> 00:04:23.040 student was murdered September twentieth, two thousand and four in Melbourne, Arkansas. 82 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:25.480 There are suspects in the case, but to this day, 83 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.000 no one has been jailed for her brutal death. The 84 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:32.199 book that we're featuring this evening is The Creek Side Bones. 85 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:36.519 Reality is more Horrifying than Fiction. With my special guest 86 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:40.439 journalist and author George Jared, Welcome to the program and 87 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:43.959 thank you very much. For agreeing to this interview, George Jared, 88 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:49.920 thank you for having me. Thank you very much again. 89 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:56.480 Another series of cases I had no idea about and yes, 90 00:04:57.560 --> 00:05:02.600 much much worse than fiction. Horrifying. Let's jump right into 91 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:06.879 this this especially. You start off with this incredible story 92 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:11.439 as we mentioned of the Elliots, Lisa and Carl. Carl 93 00:05:11.480 --> 00:05:14.879 Elliott's thirty years old. And you talk about the two kids. 94 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:18.759 Felicia is eight and Gregory is seven years old, and 95 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:22.519 the father and stepmom live very close and this is 96 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:26.399 in Dalton, Arkansas, and you talk about Hardy, Arkansas too. 97 00:05:26.439 --> 00:05:30.920 So set the stage for you talk about them living 98 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:33.800 very close to her parents in a trailer. So set 99 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:37.160 that stage. What was the living accommodations, and tell us 100 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.879 a little bit about Lisa and Carl, what was going 101 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:42.439 on at that time and what as you described the 102 00:05:42.519 --> 00:05:45.839 area and what it's known for, tell us a little 103 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:49.519 bit about this. Set to stage July twenty ninth, nineteen 104 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:50.040 ninety eight. 105 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:56.240 Dalton is a small town in northern Arkansas. It's a 106 00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:58.839 kind of a unique and interesting place. It's the only 107 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:03.399 county uh in the United States where five navigable rivers 108 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:07.680 are located. It's a very rural. It's actually a really 109 00:06:07.720 --> 00:06:12.319 beautiful place, a lot of rolling hills, cattle farms, and 110 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:15.720 in fact, the two oldest structures still on their original 111 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:18.879 foundation west of the Mississippi River are in Dalton, the 112 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:21.959 Rice Upshaw House and the Looney Tavern. They spend millions 113 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.759 of dollars restoring these two structures. So it's a very 114 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:29.000 historic and beautiful place. And but there's also another part 115 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:32.040 of it, you know, it is there's that there's a 116 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:35.480 sparse population there and it's just the kind of place 117 00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:38.920 that's really convenient if you're in the drug trade. It's 118 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:40.600 a it's a good place to live. As a heart, 119 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:44.600 it's hard for law enforcement to get in there. Everybody 120 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.759 knows everybody out in a place like Dalton. Carl and 121 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:51.519 Lisa they lived in a house. It was a family house, 122 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:56.120 and Lisa's dad and stepmother lived in a trailer adjacent 123 00:06:56.120 --> 00:07:00.519 to their house. And the father, of believe, he had 124 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:03.360 some I think he had some hearing problems and he 125 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:07.839 had some mental issues, as did the stepmother. So they 126 00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:10.160 were not when this whole thing went down. They really 127 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:12.360 weren't like reliable witnesses. I guess it's the best way 128 00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:17.199 to put it. You know, they were elderly and incapable 129 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:20.519 of giving the police any really good information. Carl was 130 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:24.720 a carpenter and a mechanic. Like you said before. They 131 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:26.839 had two kids. They had Felicia who was eight and 132 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:30.439 Gregory who was six. What happened in the summer of 133 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:35.000 nineteen ninety eight is they were Carl was involved in 134 00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:40.639 some like minor drug stuff with the Green family. The 135 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:44.639 Greens were really just a violent group of people who 136 00:07:44.680 --> 00:07:49.360 lived up in Randolph County. Their patriarch, Billy Green, he 137 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:52.800 was a big time drug trafficker. Just the drug stuff 138 00:07:52.839 --> 00:07:54.600 alone would have kept him in prison for the rest 139 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:57.519 of his life once he was finally charged the conviction 140 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:03.360 on those uh. In those cases, Billy had his oldest son, Chad, 141 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:07.879 and they were just about inseparable. He was really he 142 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:09.839 was really brutal to his son. But they were in 143 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.600 the drug trade together and Carl was friends with Chad, 144 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:17.879 and something happened in the summer of nineteen ninety eight 145 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.040 with the dynamics between the Greens and Carl. There were 146 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:26.120 rumors that he stole a number of marijuana plants from them. 147 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:31.600 There are other rumors that he took cash a couple 148 00:08:31.639 --> 00:08:34.200 of weeks before the murders, Lisa was she asked the 149 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:36.279 guy if he would loan them ten thousand dollars to 150 00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:38.919 pay out the debt. So there was all this stuff 151 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:43.080 was swirling other family members who came to visit the Elliots. 152 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:45.600 They would sleep at night with baseball bats in their 153 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:47.799 beds for fear that somebuddy would show up at their door. 154 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:51.559 And this all culminated on July twenty ninth, nineteen ninety eight. 155 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:54.679 Carl's family, they were getting ready to go to bed, 156 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:58.600 and it was an arches the door. Chad Green he 157 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:01.039 had a truck and it had broken down about a 158 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:05.159 mile from their house along the Eleven Point River. So 159 00:09:05.600 --> 00:09:09.039 Carl gets up, puts his shoes on, gets into his Thunderbird, 160 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:13.039 and ruts Chad back to his truck, pouring down the rain. 161 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:17.279 And no one knows what happened at that sandbar. All 162 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:19.919 they know I was within a few minutes, Carl has 163 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.799 shot twice and his body has been slung into the 164 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:28.399 Eleven Point River. The Thunderbird returns, the door opens, the 165 00:09:28.440 --> 00:09:30.159 little boy comes running up to the door, and I 166 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:34.240 just you know, from seeing the crime stain photo that 167 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.159 were more than likely happened. The kids saw the thunderbird 168 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:38.559 pull thought it was his dad, so we just ran 169 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:41.320 the door and greeted his head. But when the door opened, 170 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:46.919 the killer came inside, crushed the kid's head like an 171 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:53.240 eggshell with a tire school, and then jammed the pointed 172 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:55.399 end of it through the kid's throat and he bled 173 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.200 out all over the floor. And then the mother came 174 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:01.159 in to try to save her son, and the killer 175 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:06.320 hit her twenty seven times with this tire tool, and 176 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:08.559 there was blood everywhere. I talked to one detective about 177 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:10.600 this case, and he said, and he was a veteran, 178 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:14.039 he had covered many murder cases or investigated many murder cases. 179 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:16.279 He said he had never seen a crime scene like 180 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:18.960 this his entire lifecause they had nightmares about it for years. 181 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:23.559 And so, once the killer is done with the mother, 182 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:26.559 the killer goes into Felicia's room and there's a picture 183 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:28.720 of the tire till dropped amongst all of her stepped 184 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.799 animals that were in the pot she's hiding under her bed. 185 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:37.240 Killer takes her, wraps her in a blanket and puts 186 00:10:37.240 --> 00:10:40.600 her in the trunk of the thunderbird. Well as a 187 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:44.840 killer or killers are getting ready to leave, they noticed 188 00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:48.399 something in the yard, something moving, and what it was. 189 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:50.440 It was Lisa. She had woken up. They thought she 190 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:53.320 was dead. She woke up. She climbed out the window 191 00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:57.039 of the of the kitchen and she was crawling across 192 00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:00.320 the yard to get to her parents' house. And when 193 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.080 she gets there, she literally gets to the door. Her 194 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:06.600 hand is on the door. There's actually a bloody handprint 195 00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:10.000 that you can see. The killer or killers run up 196 00:11:10.039 --> 00:11:12.879 behind her, slash her throat all the way across, and 197 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:16.159 she bleeds out on their porch. They didn't know she 198 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:20.039 was there till the next morning, and because they couldn't 199 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:21.679 open the door, and they didn't know it was jamming 200 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:26.600 the door. And so a little girl's taken. There's a 201 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:29.679 lot they don't They don't know definitively what happened to her. 202 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:32.919 There's a lots of stories, but they do know that 203 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:35.679 her bones were found in a creek a couple of 204 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:40.000 years later, about a half a mile from the Green 205 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:43.720 clan's house, Billy Green's house, and it was out in 206 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:45.480 the middle of nowhere. And that's why I titled the 207 00:11:45.519 --> 00:11:47.879 book The Creek Sidebones, because that's where they found Felicia. 208 00:11:49.919 --> 00:11:52.360 Let's go back just a little bit, because right away, 209 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:55.639 after this brutal murder and this crime scene that you 210 00:11:55.679 --> 00:12:00.200 say that even veterans still have nightmares. A boat the 211 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.919 first logical suspect, because Carl and Felicia are missing. So 212 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:08.240 let's go back to how everything is discovered. But also 213 00:12:09.039 --> 00:12:12.120 Carl is the suspect initially, isn't he? So tell us 214 00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:13.320 what happens next. 215 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:17.480 Yes, he was a suspect. You know when they found 216 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:20.919 Litha and Gregory's body is the next morning, you know 217 00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:23.879 he was missing. Felicia was missing. So the first assumption 218 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:25.639 was that he had killed his wife and son and 219 00:12:25.720 --> 00:12:31.159 taken his daughter. That theory ended on August second, nineteen 220 00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:33.039 ninety eight, when they found his body in the river, 221 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.600 and from that point on they knew they were The 222 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:40.559 police knew that they were dealing with they were going 223 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:43.120 to have to find some unknown person or persons who 224 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:47.799 committed this crime. And the Greens were identified as semi 225 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:51.279 suspects kind of early on the first couple months of 226 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:53.039 the investigation, and they were interviewed a couple of times. 227 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:57.200 Chad was and the problem was that there was very 228 00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:59.799 little forensic or DNA evidence of the crime scene. They 229 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:03.480 just had nothing to go with. But as time went on, 230 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:06.080 you know, like I said, in a little place like Dalton, 231 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.960 everybody knows everybody and stories start to get out. And 232 00:13:10.000 --> 00:13:12.519 so the police within a year or two were starting 233 00:13:12.519 --> 00:13:16.559 to hear some pretty strong mathinations that the Greens were 234 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:20.919 involved in the murders and they and they knew that 235 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.320 Carl and the Greens had been involved in some drug 236 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:29.639 trafficking together. So they were for several years they would 237 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:31.440 bring them in an interview them, but they never could 238 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:35.200 pin anything to them. What changed, And ironically enough, it 239 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:37.960 was five years to the day. It was July twenty nine, 240 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:42.639 two thousand and three. Mary Green, Billy's former wife, She 241 00:13:42.759 --> 00:13:45.639 finally confessed the crime to the police. She told them 242 00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.720 exactly what happened, what she was told by her son, 243 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:52.799 and some things that Billy had said. And so so 244 00:13:52.919 --> 00:13:56.799 five years to the day they arrested two. Immediately they 245 00:13:56.840 --> 00:13:59.600 tried to get Chad to turn on Billy, so they 246 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:01.919 wanted to turn him into a witness. That gave him 247 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:05.879 a sweetheart deal. They said, hey, if you will testify 248 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:08.039 against your father, we'll give you thirty seven years in 249 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:11.639 prison for all four capital murders, and he also had 250 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:18.279 an unrelated sexual assault of the child crime that had 251 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:21.159 been was that he was having to deal with as well. 252 00:14:21.159 --> 00:14:23.960 So they just packaged it all together and they said, 253 00:14:23.960 --> 00:14:26.799 thirty seven years testify against your dad. He agreed to it. 254 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:30.240 So then in two thousand and four, Billy goes to trial, 255 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:34.399 he's convicted, He's sat on Arkansas's death row, and the 256 00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:37.080 case was basically it was over. You know, everybody was 257 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:44.399 happy and as far as well, let me back up 258 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:47.720 a little bit. So during the trial, a woman got 259 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:49.639 on the stand and said that she was scared of 260 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:52.919 Billy and that she thought that he might have had 261 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:55.600 something to do with the murder of her nephew. Well, 262 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:58.000 and you know this, Dan, You know, when you're testifying 263 00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:00.200 in a capital murder case or any case, you have 264 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:02.039 to kind of stick. You have to stick to the 265 00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:04.480 fact of that case. You can't, you know, bring up 266 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:06.960 things like that. So the judge should have declared a 267 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:10.759 mistrial right there. He didn't, so on appeal the conviction 268 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:14.200 was thrown out. Now prosecutors were in for a surprise 269 00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:18.399 because obviously they were going to immediately retry him. Well, 270 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.360 they got a surprise when Chad said, I'm not going 271 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:25.240 to testify gus by Dad's second time, and so they 272 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:27.679 had that had a quandary and actually was about to 273 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.080 go to the US Supreme Court because his lawyers were 274 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:32.360 claiming double jeopardy because prosecutor said, okay, fine, we're not 275 00:15:32.360 --> 00:15:33.799 going to testify you. We're going to do We're just 276 00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:36.759 going to recharge you with all four counts capital murder 277 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:42.039 and the sexual assault, and his lawyers argued that no, no, 278 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:44.559 you can't do that. It's double that would violate his 279 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:49.159 double jeopardy rights. So eventually it did work its way 280 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:53.320 through the court system, and basically the finding was was 281 00:15:53.399 --> 00:15:55.639 that if he didn't agree to the plea deal, then 282 00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:59.480 it didn't exist, so they couldn't violate his double jeopardy laws. 283 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:03.200 So Chad was charged with war counts, capital murder, the 284 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:07.159 sex assault charge. On the sex assault charge alone, he 285 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:12.120 got think fifty years and then of course they go 286 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:17.360 to trial in Uh I believe it was September twenty eleven, 287 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:25.639 and basically chad prosecutors were able to prove that Chad 288 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:27.639 was a lot more culpable in the murders than what 289 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:32.080 was initially thought. Initially, the police had made the had 290 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.879 the theory that Billy, that Billy was the mastermind, and 291 00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:38.399 that Chad was just the unwilling duke who went along 292 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:40.879 with his dad and did what he was told. Well, 293 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:43.639 I always had a there was always a problem with 294 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.399 that for me studying the case. For one simple reason. 295 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:52.840 Billy was a very sophisticated criminal. He had like radios 296 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:54.960 at his house, he was monitoring police traffic all the time, 297 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:59.879 had informants everywhere that he paid off to keep information 298 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.000 for him and get information for him. And the one 299 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:05.640 thing that surprised him about the whole incident was the 300 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.640 little girl was taken. And Billy, for all of his 301 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:14.359 horrible deeds in life, I never came across any any 302 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.440 any time that he'd been charged with like pedophilia, and Chad, 303 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:21.160 you know that sex assault charge that he had previously 304 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:25.720 was for molesting an eight year old girl. And so 305 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:29.039 just in my mind, I was sitting there going, Okay, 306 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:32.759 whoever did this? The motivation was the little girl because 307 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:37.400 she was taken, And I'll never forget it. During Chad's trial. 308 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:41.400 Number one and another thing that would have probably caused 309 00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:45.079 this case to go back to court anyway was defensor 310 00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:49.359 prosecutors didn't divulge back in two thousand and four that 311 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:53.240 Chad actually confessed to the murders, that he said he 312 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:55.400 did them all by himself and his dad wasn't even involved, 313 00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:59.119 and he did this with a like an attorney in 314 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:04.079 a private investigator. He consessed it. Well, they never divulged 315 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:08.039 that to Billy's defense team at that time, so right there, 316 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.839 I mean, it was almost it was almost bad enough 317 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:14.519 that the judge in the case had to even consider 318 00:18:14.599 --> 00:18:17.279 if Billy was going to go to trial a second 319 00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.839 time once this was found out in twenty eleven, but 320 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:22.359 then he finally decided to go ahead and let it 321 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:26.559 move forward. So in my mind, I just don't think 322 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:30.039 if Billy had been there at the crime scene, I 323 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:32.240 don't think he would have allowed Chad to take the 324 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:33.960 girl because the girl would have led the police right 325 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:38.000 to them and back at his trial, and it was 326 00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:40.759 a really surreal moment, I had an innate who testified 327 00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:44.000 that Chad bragged about the killing and he said that 328 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.599 he talked about the little girl, and I want to 329 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:51.359 just a heartbreaking, crushing moment. The guy gets on the 330 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:55.039 stand and said that, you know, he wanted to enjoy 331 00:18:55.119 --> 00:18:58.519 her because she was going to die anyway. And I 332 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:00.759 remember just looking at the juror c and of course 333 00:19:00.759 --> 00:19:02.759 the family members are all in there, their crying. I mean, 334 00:19:03.799 --> 00:19:06.759 I have a lump in my throat, and you know 335 00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:13.119 I've covered many murder cases. So anyway, Chad was convicted 336 00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:16.079 and so was Billy. Later he was his trials in 337 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:20.359 twenty twelve. They were both given life without parole. And 338 00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:22.920 the reason they weren't given death sentences in the cases 339 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:27.960 is because the case is circumstantial. Mary Green, Chad's mother 340 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.920 and Billy's former wife, had to testify. She was the 341 00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:35.200 most crucial witness, and prosecutors were afraid that if the 342 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.039 death penalty was on the table, especially with her son, 343 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:40.960 that she might not be as forthcoming in her testimony. 344 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:43.319 So they had to take that off the table. And 345 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:45.480 so both these guys are in prison for the rest 346 00:19:45.519 --> 00:19:47.759 of their lives now. And I tell people, when you 347 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.960 read this story, when you research this case, it is 348 00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:55.640 about You've never watched a horror movie or read a 349 00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:58.720 horror novel any worse than what happened to that family. 350 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:02.319 I mean, the Crimking photos are just brutal. I mean 351 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:05.799 it was literally you hear the term bloodbath, and it's 352 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:08.839 a lot. Literally, that house was a wash in blood. 353 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:14.319 The autopsic phetos of Lisa Elliott. I seen many many 354 00:20:14.359 --> 00:20:17.480 autopsy phellows, and hers would the absolute most heartbreaking. 355 00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:23.960 Yeah, yeah, you got to see that. I've never experienced 356 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:28.799 crime scene photos and if I can avoid it, I will. 357 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:29.319 Ye. 358 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:32.599 What you talk about we was really fascinating part of 359 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.519 this book, and I wanted to ask you too. I 360 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:37.200 don't know if you come to this conclusion, but it 361 00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:40.920 seems very irresponsible. It would seem even on the little 362 00:20:41.240 --> 00:20:46.039 limited amount of evidence that they had, because you uncovered 363 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:48.000 a lot of stuff, and it came out later when 364 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.240 Chad was put in that position against his father to 365 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:55.279 try to mount some kind of defense. So you talk 366 00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:00.160 about the evidence that was there that there was two killers, 367 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.440 and there was evidence from Mary about the phone call 368 00:21:04.039 --> 00:21:07.160 and from Chad's ex girlfriend. So they put this thing 369 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:10.200 together that there certainly was a call, that there certainly 370 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:13.119 was a lot of evidence to say that they were 371 00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:17.039 both involved. So it seemed irresponsible to me in that 372 00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:21.160 first trial to be able to convict Billy completely and 373 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:27.680 no culpability on Chad's part. It seemed talk more about 374 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:33.200 the dilemma that Mary had Billy's wife and Chad's mother 375 00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:36.920 in this and what it seemed, at least in your regards, 376 00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:39.440 your respect that it seemed what she was trying to 377 00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:43.160 do at trial for her son and against her husband. 378 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:47.559 Well, it was clearly obvious to me. Here's the thing 379 00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:49.799 about you know, being a journalist, and I know that 380 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:53.880 you can appreciate this. A lot of many people don't 381 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:56.519 ever step through the courtroom the you know, like the 382 00:21:56.839 --> 00:21:58.759 like people who sit on jury's. The only time they're 383 00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:00.480 ever in a courtroom is the day there and they're 384 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.640 on a jury. A lot of the people who testify 385 00:22:03.799 --> 00:22:07.000 in these capital murder cases, they don't have the totality 386 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.839 of what was of the what happened in the courtroom 387 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:13.759 because they can't be in there when other people are testifying. 388 00:22:14.440 --> 00:22:17.319 And so as a reporter, you kind of you get 389 00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:18.680 to sit there and you get to listen to every 390 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:19.799 single person testify. 391 00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:22.880 Wait, the lucky land slots. You can get lucky just 392 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:23.880 about anywhere. 393 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:27.559 It's your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and the 394 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:29.440 weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up here 395 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:32.519 a while and get lucky. Oh no, nothing like that 396 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:35.039 it's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 397 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:37.400 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 398 00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:38.920 and start getting Lucky. 399 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.319 Pay for free at Lucky landslops dot com. Are you 400 00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:46.039 feeling lucky? No purchase necessary void. We're prohibited by Law 401 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:50.079