1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Chicks on the Right program. 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,679 We have been very, very anxious to talk to our 3 00:00:05,719 --> 00:00:08,439 guest today, Josh Hammer, who is the host of The 4 00:00:08,519 --> 00:00:11,599 Josh Hammer Show. He is the author of a new book, 5 00:00:11,679 --> 00:00:15,119 Israel and Civilization out now. He is senior editor at 6 00:00:15,199 --> 00:00:20,399 Large for Newsweek, and our audience may recognize Josh Hammer's name. 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,559 We've mentioned it a few times during our show because 8 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,760 Candice Owens recently used all kinds of colorful language to 9 00:00:26,839 --> 00:00:29,879 describe him, including let me see if I get them all, 10 00:00:30,039 --> 00:00:32,560 subhuman filth. 11 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 2: Psychopath, deeply disturbed. 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,719 Speaker 1: And now there is this new drama regarding a word 13 00:00:38,759 --> 00:00:42,119 that you used in your recent Daily Mail article about 14 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,840 Tucker Carlson, which we want to get to. 15 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: But we want to backtrack a little bit. 16 00:00:46,039 --> 00:00:51,719 Speaker 1: And get some history, specifically starting with your relationship with 17 00:00:51,799 --> 00:00:54,799 Charlie Kirk and how all of this drama came to be. 18 00:00:55,039 --> 00:00:56,759 So can you tell us how you met and how 19 00:00:56,799 --> 00:00:57,359 you knew him? 20 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 3: Sure? So thanks for having me. First of all, I'm 21 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,759 a big fan of the show. So you know when 22 00:01:02,799 --> 00:01:06,439 I joined Newsweek as the opinion editor, so they hired me. 23 00:01:06,599 --> 00:01:09,040 I previously had worked for The Daily Wire, I've been 24 00:01:09,079 --> 00:01:13,519 a pretty public facing conservative for my entire adult life. 25 00:01:13,599 --> 00:01:15,439 I've literally never been on the left. I mean I was. 26 00:01:15,519 --> 00:01:17,480 I was actually that guy in middle school in high 27 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,519 school who's basically arguing against like twenty five lib classmates 28 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,760 on like Bush era water boarding policies at one tom Obay, 29 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,599 I mean that was literally me. So I've been life 30 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:31,159 al right there. Yeah. But after, you know, after dailhi Wire, 31 00:01:31,239 --> 00:01:33,719 Newsweek hired me as a conservative to run their op 32 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:35,719 ed page, to run throughun the opinimate, because they wanted 33 00:01:35,719 --> 00:01:37,280 a conservative to run the op ed page for the 34 00:01:37,359 --> 00:01:40,560 very simple reason that liberals will contribute op as regardless, 35 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,400 but conservatives definitely won't do it unless they know it's 36 00:01:42,439 --> 00:01:45,840 a hospitable location. So I say all that for contest, 37 00:01:45,879 --> 00:01:49,200 because one of the conservative columnists I inherited a Newsweek 38 00:01:49,239 --> 00:01:51,400 was Charlie kirk and Charlie was one of our conservative 39 00:01:51,439 --> 00:01:54,680 columnists at Newsweek. So I got to know Charlie and 40 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,400 also his his manager, his intermediary Andrew Covid, who I 41 00:01:58,439 --> 00:02:00,840 think the world has now gone to know because Andrew 42 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,560 is is executive producer of the Charliekirrek Shon has been 43 00:02:03,599 --> 00:02:05,959 the most frequent guest host of the Charlie Kirk Show 44 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,080 since the Tratic assassination. So I got to know Charlie 45 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,879 and Andrew quite well initially through that. Charlie first invited 46 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,159 me to speak at a Tourney Point conference about a 47 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,680 year after I started at Newsleader, so this would have 48 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,719 been twenty twenty one, at this two National summit in Tampa. 49 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,000 I started going on on his show as a guest, 50 00:02:22,039 --> 00:02:24,000 even before my own show launched. We kind of just 51 00:02:24,039 --> 00:02:26,960 struck up a natural chord. I am a religious Jew, 52 00:02:27,039 --> 00:02:29,439 he is a religious Christian. We have a, you know, 53 00:02:30,159 --> 00:02:33,080 some obvious theological difference to decide. We have a very 54 00:02:33,159 --> 00:02:36,439 generally similar worldview, which is that the Western civilization is 55 00:02:36,479 --> 00:02:39,960 the offspring of the Bible, and the Biblical inheritance of 56 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,080 that is the inheritance of both Jews and Christians alike. 57 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:46,120 And especially over the last year or two of his life, 58 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,280 as Charlie started to get really really concerned with this 59 00:02:50,479 --> 00:02:54,439 growing sentiment of not just anti Semitism that's certainly part 60 00:02:54,479 --> 00:02:58,039 of it, but this bizarre form of right of center 61 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,199 thought or cop and terry that seems anti American, frankly 62 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,800 anti American, anti Western, anti Bible, I mean, like all 63 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,639 the good things that I stand for that Charlie stood 64 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:11,400 for and sover so he became very concerned and he 65 00:03:11,439 --> 00:03:14,919 formed this, this small WhatsApp chat which has become the 66 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,240 source of some speculation, shall we say, Charlie literally say 67 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,680 he literally called this WhatsApp chat saving civilization for the 68 00:03:22,759 --> 00:03:26,840 very simple reason that he intended to save civilization. And 69 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:31,479 he saw the pillars of that as Judaism, Christianity, the Bible, 70 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,719 the United States, etc. Are there. So I got We 71 00:03:34,039 --> 00:03:36,840 talked virtually every day for the final year, year and 72 00:03:36,879 --> 00:03:38,800 a half of his life, at least in this group chat, 73 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:41,759 if if not privately. Most recently, I saw him in 74 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,199 July at the Turning Point USA student summit in Tampa, 75 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,800 where I debated Dave Smith for the second time. That 76 00:03:48,199 --> 00:03:50,599 tragically ends up being Charlie Kirk's final event that he 77 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:53,759 ever moderated at a Turning Point USA conference, which is 78 00:03:53,759 --> 00:03:57,199 obviously horrific in hindsight. Then I saw I saw him 79 00:03:57,199 --> 00:04:00,439 about three weeks give or take after that, at another 80 00:04:00,439 --> 00:04:02,919 event that's become the source of some sort of conspiracy. 81 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,199 This this was the Hampton's Retreat, This was the Turnpoint 82 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,319 USA Hampton's retreat, the one where Bill Ackman tended my 83 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,159 good friend Seth Dill and the Babylon b I was there. 84 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,120 That was the last time I saw Charlie in person, 85 00:04:13,159 --> 00:04:15,400 because that was about about a month before the horrific assassination. 86 00:04:15,479 --> 00:04:16,839 So that's that's kind of the whole story there. 87 00:04:17,439 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, go ahead, I mean here, no, I was 88 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:21,920 just going to say, you know, you talk about how 89 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,319 there's a rise in anti Semitism, I also think that 90 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,680 there's been a rise in Islamism, you know, and that's 91 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,879 and that concerns me because people it's almost as if 92 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,360 people can't see what's happening in Europe, and I don't 93 00:04:34,439 --> 00:04:36,639 understand why they can't see it. And we've been doing 94 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,879 this for the better part of eighteen years. So we're 95 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,480 old and so we and when I say old, it's 96 00:04:44,519 --> 00:04:47,839 when you're older, you know, because you're you're a young guy. 97 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,959 I mean, not to diminish like because you're I mean 98 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,399 you are you have done some stuff. I mean you're 99 00:04:53,519 --> 00:04:56,759 very accomplished, but you're you know, we've been in this 100 00:04:56,879 --> 00:04:59,160 space for a long time. To see that like it is, 101 00:04:59,759 --> 00:05:02,639 it is is very concerning. When we do see the 102 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,279 anti Semitism, but we also do see a rise of 103 00:05:06,439 --> 00:05:10,199 the Islamism, which is, you know, you think that people 104 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,000 would look at other places and go, that's probably not 105 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,279 a good idea based on what I'm seeing happening over 106 00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:17,480 there not being a good idea, so we don't want 107 00:05:17,519 --> 00:05:19,639 it to happen here. And so there's a mix of 108 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,319 things going on, and I see like this huge fracture 109 00:05:22,399 --> 00:05:25,759 happening in the party because we've always been like, you know, 110 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,439 we're really bad at rallying as a you know, as conservatives, 111 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,879 we're bad at coming together because we're very individualistic, you know, 112 00:05:32,959 --> 00:05:35,319 we like to just we don't like to go along 113 00:05:35,399 --> 00:05:38,360 to get along. But we've you know, complained about that 114 00:05:38,439 --> 00:05:40,399 over the past better part of twenty years, how we're 115 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,680 not good ralliers. And I feel like in twenty twenty four, 116 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,160 I finally feel like we got to a place where 117 00:05:47,199 --> 00:05:48,920 we're like, Okay, I think we're getting there, so it's 118 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,839 gonna be great. We're starting to like gain some momentum. 119 00:05:51,879 --> 00:05:54,240 And then it was like wah wah, wah, wah wah, 120 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,759 and here we are. We're back again. I think, worse 121 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,360 than ever, Josh, because I feel like there's this massive 122 00:06:01,759 --> 00:06:05,600 fracture happening, and I'm legit terrified of it because I 123 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:07,759 think it's the worst we've ever seen in the better 124 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,279 part of two decades. 125 00:06:09,439 --> 00:06:10,519 Speaker 5: What are your thoughts on that. 126 00:06:11,199 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 3: Well, there's lots of umpact there. Look, yeah, I mean, 127 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,680 on the one hand, the American rights the American conservative 128 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:23,079 movement has had plenty of policy and intellectual and philosophical 129 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,879 disagreements since that modern movement. You know, the tale that 130 00:06:27,959 --> 00:06:30,040 is told about the modern consert movement typically goes back 131 00:06:30,079 --> 00:06:32,160 to the nineteen fifties with the rise of National Review 132 00:06:32,199 --> 00:06:34,439 and Bill Buckley and the Heritage Foundation. So I mean, 133 00:06:34,959 --> 00:06:37,040 you know, going back to those early post World War 134 00:06:37,079 --> 00:06:41,279 Two debates, there have been all sorts of philosophical disagreements 135 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,160 between the Cold War era interventionists and the old school 136 00:06:45,319 --> 00:06:47,959 you know, Taft style isolationists. On the one hand, you 137 00:06:47,959 --> 00:06:50,839 have the libertarians that the lase a fair fundamentalist versus 138 00:06:50,879 --> 00:06:55,079 kind of the social conservatives. So these disagreements to an extent, 139 00:06:56,079 --> 00:06:58,480 you know, are somewhat endemic for better or for worse, 140 00:06:58,519 --> 00:07:00,800 to the American you know, extent is actually not a 141 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,399 bad thing, right, because you do want a healthy you 142 00:07:03,439 --> 00:07:07,000 want to you want a healthy intellectual agree vibrancy. The 143 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:08,800 problem is that that's not what we're seeing. 144 00:07:09,079 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 5: The problem is that I agree, Yeah. 145 00:07:10,879 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 3: The problem is that we're What we're seeing right now 146 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,439 is not that you know this. This is this is 147 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:20,439 not you know, too too well read, well informed, you know, amicable, 148 00:07:20,879 --> 00:07:24,759 amicably disagreeing conservatives, you know, having a policy disagreement about 149 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,439 you know, the Cuban missile crisis, or you know what 150 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:29,639 the tax rate should be or this there. No, I mean, 151 00:07:30,079 --> 00:07:34,120 what you're seeing is is the rise of a strand 152 00:07:34,279 --> 00:07:37,560 of people who think of themselves as being on the right, 153 00:07:37,639 --> 00:07:40,680 and occasionally talk of themselves as being on the right. 154 00:07:41,519 --> 00:07:44,319 But as I was saying, I mean, I mean seem 155 00:07:44,399 --> 00:07:46,959 to not not not just be anti Semitic, and many 156 00:07:46,959 --> 00:07:49,120 ways they're actually anti Christian. I mean, look at what 157 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:50,879 look at what Tucker Carlson said on his show to 158 00:07:50,959 --> 00:07:53,879 Nick Flindes. He said that he detests no one more 159 00:07:54,399 --> 00:07:56,319 I think on earth. I think I could wrong. I 160 00:07:56,319 --> 00:07:59,439 want to even about it. You're absolutely right, yeah, he said, 161 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:01,519 he said he did tests no one more on Earth 162 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,759 than Christian Zionists. And that's that's a that's a pretty 163 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,959 shocking statement. I mean, that is a lot of people 164 00:08:08,079 --> 00:08:12,839 he hates Charlie. It's literally Charlie. I mean literally to 165 00:08:12,959 --> 00:08:15,680 a t Charlie. Charlie posts a photo of himself shortly 166 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,279 after October seventh of him praying at the Western Wall 167 00:08:18,279 --> 00:08:21,720 in Jerusalem wearing the kipa, the Jewish skull cap, literally 168 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,959 quoting Genesis chapter twelve, verse three, one of the most 169 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,680 cited verses of the Bible for Christian Zionists, in partial 170 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,879 lekcla cloud, which we're actually gonna read in syndegat this Shabbad. 171 00:08:31,879 --> 00:08:32,759 It's kind of funny timing. 172 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 4: Uh. 173 00:08:33,399 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 3: And this is this is a famous line where it says, 174 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:36,559 I shall bless those who bless you, I shall curse 175 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,480 those who curse you. You know, I mean that was 176 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,480 Charlie's m O. I mean, he was a literal Christian 177 00:08:40,519 --> 00:08:43,720 zions So Tucker is bashing Charlie. He's also bashing a plurality, 178 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:46,200 at least of the of the Maga coalition, of the 179 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:51,080 Republican voting base. There and these ceaseless attacks on not 180 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,279 just the tiny minority that are US Jews, but also 181 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,559 this this broader majority that are proud Christians, proud patriotic, 182 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,360 constitutional as Americans, you know, just good old fashioned people 183 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:04,519 of buying for the right. On the and on the 184 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,279 other hand, you have you know, I mean Tucker you mentioned, 185 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,799 you mentioned Islamism. You know, Tucker had a really bizarre 186 00:09:09,879 --> 00:09:12,879 video a few months ago where he's offering apologia on 187 00:09:12,919 --> 00:09:15,559 behalf of Shria law. He has this video, We're talking 188 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,360 about Riad, Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, u as like these 189 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,720 are beautiful looking cities. I mean, how bad can shari 190 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,480 a Law be? On the on the other hand, he's 191 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,120 he's getting a puff interview to the president of Iran, 192 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:27,799 to the a mirror of Katar. I mean, I mean, 193 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:29,879 what is what is going on here? I mean, you know, 194 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,720 are we as Charlie would have played it? Are we 195 00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:33,840 on team civilization? Or are we not? 196 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,519 Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, so are you? 197 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,159 Speaker 1: I mean with the with the chat that you talked about, 198 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,200 and you obviously don't you don't have to disclose who 199 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:41,639 else is. 200 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 2: Involved other than you and and now Andrew and. 201 00:09:44,159 --> 00:09:47,279 Speaker 1: Whoever else do you talk to to the to him 202 00:09:47,399 --> 00:09:50,559 and to the others at TPUSA about, you know, because 203 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:52,960 there's a lot of people right now calling for TPUSA 204 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,360 to essentially distance themselves from Tucker. 205 00:09:55,759 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: Are you do you believe that they should have they? 206 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: Are they aware of how much chatter there is about 207 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:08,159 how different Tucker is from what Charlie stood for and 208 00:10:08,519 --> 00:10:11,559 whether or not that harms the TPUSA brand. 209 00:10:13,279 --> 00:10:17,320 Speaker 3: Charlie was an adamant, adamant foe of Nick Flentes. No 210 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,360 one in America did more to sideline Nick Flentes and 211 00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:22,679 that whole movement than Charlie Kirk, literally, no one more. 212 00:10:22,799 --> 00:10:24,919 There's a nice, single person who did more to ostracize 213 00:10:24,919 --> 00:10:26,600 flent This than Charlie. I mean, and there's. 214 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,159 Speaker 4: Video proof of it, Josh, Like you can see where 215 00:10:29,159 --> 00:10:32,200 he hated the ideology of this guy. And there's you 216 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,000 can I mean, if people don't believe it, you can 217 00:10:34,039 --> 00:10:36,279 see it with your own eyes. You can watch him 218 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,200 say that. You can see him visibly irritated and agitated 219 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,000 and disgusted at these people. 220 00:10:42,039 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 3: Right, I mean, flind This would literally show up physically 221 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,879 to these conferences to troll turning points. They need to 222 00:10:46,919 --> 00:10:50,000 try to let him attend. He caused personal hell or 223 00:10:50,159 --> 00:10:55,360 Charlie and is now widow Erica. And the difference is 224 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,559 that Charlie, like many of us in the space New 225 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,240 Tucker for a very long time, and he had years 226 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,679 and years of very positive experiences with Tucker, of him 227 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,720 speaking the conferences back when he was slightly more normal, 228 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,279 when he was on Fox News and so forth there, 229 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,720 and he just never got to the point where he 230 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,720 saw Tucker Carlson Nick flintes as being in the same camp. 231 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:21,759 And I do think that he would have been shocked. 232 00:11:21,799 --> 00:11:24,080 That he would have been shocked if he had seen 233 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,320 that a month and a half after his death, that 234 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,840 Tucker would bring on the flent As for what can 235 00:11:28,919 --> 00:11:32,440 only be described as a very friendly interview, a very 236 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,039 friendly interview there. But yes, I mean the folks in 237 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,480 you know, Charlie and the folks in his orbit were 238 00:11:38,519 --> 00:11:41,840 certainly aware that that I was not a fan of 239 00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:43,720 the direction that Tucker Carlson had taken. That I think 240 00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:46,039 a lot of folks were not a fan of the 241 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:48,519 direction Tucker Carlson had taken. But there were just there 242 00:11:48,519 --> 00:11:51,240 were all these years of very pleasant personal interactions that 243 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:52,919 I think kind of just led him to say, no, 244 00:11:53,039 --> 00:11:54,639 you know, it can't be right. I mean, it just 245 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,879 can't be. It can't be the case that Tucker is, 246 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,720 you know, indistinguishable from flent is there or he's pedaling 247 00:11:59,759 --> 00:12:04,320 a slightly softer, more toned down, more faculty lounge esque 248 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,519 version of of of the flentes bile and filth. So 249 00:12:09,039 --> 00:12:11,159 you know, that was one thing that that we disagreed about. 250 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:12,759 But here's where I say that, here's what we'll say 251 00:12:12,759 --> 00:12:14,879 that Charlie and I very much agree we'd read very 252 00:12:14,919 --> 00:12:17,120 strong gun. Two things. One a lot of things to 253 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,440 be clear, but two things for present purposes. One is 254 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,440 that genuine, actual Indi Semitism, like not like a disagreement 255 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,639 about like foreign eight daser, but like literal, like you know, 256 00:12:27,879 --> 00:12:31,600 actual old school blood level anti semitism has no place 257 00:12:31,879 --> 00:12:34,720 on the right period, full stop, end of story. There 258 00:12:34,799 --> 00:12:38,639 is an infinite supply of internet clips available for Charlie 259 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,759 saying exactly that, including in my debate against Dave Smith 260 00:12:42,039 --> 00:12:44,759 on the Stage Attorney Point just in July. The other 261 00:12:44,799 --> 00:12:48,279 thing that I think is even more relevant, possibly that 262 00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:51,679 Charlie stood for that I agree with as well, is 263 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,159 that when it comes to platforming decisions, who were going 264 00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:57,000 to choose a platform and a conference overth there lines 265 00:12:57,039 --> 00:13:01,000 at some point have to be drawn. Again, Charlie keeping 266 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,200 out Flints was like the literal embodiment of that. Now, 267 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,159 he and I disagreed at times, as I'm sure he 268 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,840 disagreed with any number of his other friends and colleagues 269 00:13:09,879 --> 00:13:11,960 and whatever. We all have our own ideas as to 270 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,960 where exactly to draw the line every instance there. But 271 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,639 the point is that lines must be drawn, and to 272 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,279 simply draw a line is not an act of cancelation 273 00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:24,360 is a basically it is. It is one an editorial judgment. 274 00:13:24,639 --> 00:13:27,399 I mean, for instance, a pro life organization would obviously 275 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:30,000 not platform a pro abortion speak gerth or conference, So 276 00:13:30,799 --> 00:13:33,000 it's one. It's just an editorial judgment too. It's also 277 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,399 just like a literal like time of how many minutes 278 00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:37,960 of the day. I mean, a conference can't go on 279 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,360 for life. You have a limited time there, limited slots. 280 00:13:40,399 --> 00:13:43,240 It's a scarcity of resources thing too. So he strongly 281 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,720 agreed on lines being drawn for platforming, and I very 282 00:13:46,799 --> 00:13:47,960 much agree with that as well, certainly. 283 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think and it's the mainstreaming that concerns 284 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,399 me too, Yeah, because since that line has not been drawn, 285 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,799 and you've got people like Tucker interviewing this guy, which 286 00:13:59,279 --> 00:14:02,639 the whole groyper gotta hate that word, the whole Groyper 287 00:14:02,799 --> 00:14:06,960 movement like these. You know, now he's getting a platform, 288 00:14:07,039 --> 00:14:08,519 so people can say, you know, people like talking to 289 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:09,639 me like, well, I mean it's just you know, it's 290 00:14:09,639 --> 00:14:10,080 free speech. 291 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 5: I'm just hearing what he has to say. You know, 292 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:13,240 I'm paraphrasing. 293 00:14:13,279 --> 00:14:15,519 Speaker 4: Of course, all these people are like, what's the big deal, 294 00:14:15,639 --> 00:14:17,440 just hearing what they have to say. But when you 295 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,440 give him a platform, you're gonna have all these really 296 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:26,200 super right wing people that are awful, like the far 297 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:31,360 far right wing that are just terrible, terrible white nationalists. 298 00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:33,639 When I say white nationalists, I'm talking about like white 299 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:39,120 the legit white supremacist, anti Semitic, horrible people that are. 300 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:40,759 Speaker 5: Like, oh yeah, I really like this guy. 301 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 2: He sounds really nice because there's been no pushback. 302 00:14:43,799 --> 00:14:45,399 Speaker 3: Just just real quick, not to cut you off, but 303 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,360 you know, I mean, fun, this is obviously a literal holocaust, 304 00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:50,159 and I I mean there was a I mean, there 305 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,080 was an infamous clip of the cookies. Okay, yep. But 306 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:58,039 he's also like a scathing racist. I mean he's he's 307 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,039 he's mocked JD. Vans for marrying his wife Usha because 308 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,879 she's Indian. I've met Usha before. She's a wonderful, wonderful, 309 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:06,039 amazing accomplished. 310 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,279 Speaker 4: He's anti all immigration, I mean, like we are anti 311 00:15:09,399 --> 00:15:13,279 illegal immigration obviously, but he doesn't like any immigration, which 312 00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:16,720 Mack's parents like, I mean that, but. 313 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,519 Speaker 3: Also just like literally an anti black, anti Indian, like like, 314 00:15:19,559 --> 00:15:22,480 you're profoundly like misogynous, anti woman. I mean this, It's 315 00:15:22,559 --> 00:15:24,840 a bad human being. Really didn't know how to say it. 316 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely what I'm curious because you mentioned j D 317 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,559 and Usha and you probably saw the the event, the 318 00:15:32,559 --> 00:15:35,440 TPUSA event at ole Miss last night. I've seen a 319 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,200 lot of interesting takes from very pro Israel Jewish people 320 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:45,080 who are dissatisfied with how JD. Vance answered some of 321 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,480 the questions that related to Israel and to this, you know, 322 00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:52,559 this ridiculous idea that Bibiata who controls Donald Trump, or 323 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:53,919 Israel controls Donald Trump. 324 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:55,919 Speaker 2: But there was that one question. 325 00:15:55,679 --> 00:16:00,679 Speaker 1: In particular where the student asked about the ethnic genocide 326 00:16:00,759 --> 00:16:04,519 in Gaza and this this I can't remember how he 327 00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:06,519 phrased it, but it was something to the extent about 328 00:16:06,519 --> 00:16:10,840 there's inability for Judaism and Christianity to coexist well, and 329 00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:13,480 so why basically, why is the United States paying any 330 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,440 mind to Israel, and I thought JD's answer was tactful 331 00:16:18,519 --> 00:16:23,000 and diplomatic and politically fine, and I love him. I 332 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,600 think he's a phenomenal potential choice for twenty twenty eight. 333 00:16:26,799 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: But I am seeing. 334 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 1: A lot of folks who I was surprised to see, 335 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:36,159 who are very disappointed and disillusioned by the way that 336 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:37,320 he answered that question. 337 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:38,039 Speaker 5: What was your take? 338 00:16:39,559 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 3: Let me first address part of that person's that Interlockier's question, 339 00:16:43,799 --> 00:16:46,120 then I'll come back to JD. So part of that question, 340 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,240 as you correctly summarized, it was his notion that jude 341 00:16:50,279 --> 00:16:54,080 has been Christianity cannot cannot co exist. So this is 342 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,600 a topic that I address a great length actually in 343 00:16:57,639 --> 00:17:01,320 my book Israel and Civilization, because no one can understand 344 00:17:01,919 --> 00:17:04,160 the story of the United States of America. Literally, no 345 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,480 one can understand this country without understanding just how much 346 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,200 are very pious, very devout Christian founders were inspired by 347 00:17:13,279 --> 00:17:17,279 the Hebrew Bible, by the Old Testament, by the Jewish people, 348 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:22,759 and Jewish ethical, legal, political and norms. I mean, what's 349 00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:26,119 inscribed on the liberty bell in Philadelphia. You know, it's 350 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:28,480 not Aristotle in Nicol mcke and ethics, it's not a 351 00:17:28,559 --> 00:17:30,480 speech from Cicero on the for of the Roman Senate. 352 00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:32,720 It's literally the book of Leviticus. I mean, like as 353 00:17:32,759 --> 00:17:35,799 old Testament as it gets. It's Leviticus, chapter twenty five, 354 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,519 verse ten. This this exhortation to spread liberty throughout the 355 00:17:39,599 --> 00:17:42,720 land into all the inhabitants thereop and Benjamin Franklin, one 356 00:17:42,759 --> 00:17:45,039 of the National Seal of the United States, to literally 357 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,279 be Moses crossing the Red Sea with the Israelites trailing behind. 358 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,920 You know, John Adams, our second president and a very 359 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,720 devout Christian himself. Famously one says that it's his contention 360 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:56,960 that no people in the history of mankind has done 361 00:17:57,039 --> 00:18:00,000 more to civilize the masses than the Hebrew people because 362 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,119 as they introduced to the world the concept of monotheism. 363 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,039 So you know, this notion that the Jews and Christians 364 00:18:05,079 --> 00:18:08,720 can't get along is completely belied by the American founding 365 00:18:08,799 --> 00:18:11,039 and by nearly two and a half centuries now of 366 00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:12,799 the American stories. So I just wanted to kind of 367 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,079 get that end there. But look, when it comes to JD. 368 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:20,400 Evans in particular, my Jewish friends are something my Jewish 369 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,319 friends on the right. To be clear, I don't really 370 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:23,519 have a whole lot of friends on left in general 371 00:18:23,559 --> 00:18:27,079 these days, but I have something on the top. But 372 00:18:27,519 --> 00:18:31,279 my Jewish friends on the right are somewhat divided when 373 00:18:31,319 --> 00:18:36,119 it comes to Jdvans. I've personally known JD for some 374 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,119 years now, sin as well, before he was Sendinger advanced. 375 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:41,079 I think we met at the first National Consertism Conference, 376 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,200 the first nat con way back in DC and twenty nineteen. 377 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:46,440 You know, we were following each other back when we 378 00:18:46,599 --> 00:18:49,000 just had I don't know, ten twenty thousand Twitter followers 379 00:18:49,079 --> 00:18:51,200 or whatever. There. I've gotten dinner and drank beers with 380 00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:54,200 him and his wife Lucia. So I personally like the 381 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,480 guy very much. I think very highly of him. It's 382 00:18:56,519 --> 00:19:00,279 definitely concerning that Tucker Carlson's son Buckley is in his offe. 383 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:01,880 I mean, I'm not going to mince words and pretend 384 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,480 that that is just something to glance over it. It's 385 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,160 definitely a potential red flag. On the other hand, you know, 386 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,680 one of my close law school friends is in that office, 387 00:19:09,759 --> 00:19:12,079 the chief of staff of a vice president of Vance. 388 00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:14,720 Is these all public information? He is a proud jew. 389 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:16,960 Another friend of mine named Jacob recis so I mean 390 00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:19,759 this notion that Jade Vance is some you know, crypto 391 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,559 groper anti semi I think is nuts and and and 392 00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:27,119 there's really no evidence to bat that up. I mean, 393 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,960 could he have handled that question or something else slightly differently? Look, 394 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,839 there was one question kind of implying, you know that 395 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,079 like Israel and the Jews control American foreign policy, and 396 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,880 his answer is basically like, well, obviously they don't control 397 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,559 of this president. Look, if I'm being like, if I'm 398 00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:46,400 really nitpicking, like a better answer would have been, I 399 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:47,799 reject the premise of the question. 400 00:19:47,839 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 2: I mean exactly exactly right. 401 00:19:49,519 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 3: But I'm nitpicking a little bit here, Okay. I mean, 402 00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:54,400 as someone who has done these events before, when you're 403 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,960 in like that moment, you don't always say like, exactly 404 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,000 the best thing there. So I mean, I mean he 405 00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:02,559 overall did a perfectly fine job. I am not particularly 406 00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:05,759 worried that that jd Vance is a is a crypto groeper. 407 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,680 I will say this though, I will say this, despite 408 00:20:09,079 --> 00:20:12,559 my you know, personal fondness towards me and everything, Tucker 409 00:20:12,599 --> 00:20:16,400 is a massive problem. Okay, And at some point the 410 00:20:16,519 --> 00:20:19,799 paling around with Tucker Carlson, I think is is not 411 00:20:19,799 --> 00:20:22,960 going to be an issue not just for Jews like me, 412 00:20:23,079 --> 00:20:26,960 but is increase becoming a politically untenable albatross in general, 413 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,759 like like literally just for the American people. I mean, 414 00:20:29,799 --> 00:20:33,880 as we just discussed Tucker Carlson, who I guess the 415 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,440 Vice President still considers a friend, Tucker was just calling 416 00:20:37,519 --> 00:20:40,319 all Christian Zionists essentially scum of the earth. I mean, 417 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,640 that is that is a lot of Trump Vance's own voters. 418 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,359 So this is this is rapidly becoming unsustainable and politically untenable. 419 00:20:48,839 --> 00:20:52,200 And I hope and pray that JD. Vance ultimately takes 420 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,119 the rights and prudent course of action there. I think 421 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:55,000 he will afford it's. 422 00:20:54,839 --> 00:20:56,880 Speaker 4: Worth, and I think it's going to be a huge 423 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,079 problem in the next election, which he will ultimately be 424 00:21:01,559 --> 00:21:03,079 a big part of. Obviously he's going to be the 425 00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,720 guy running for president, we think, I think, so, I mean, 426 00:21:06,839 --> 00:21:09,160 what do you think will happen if I mean if 427 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,279 he runs and if he's got because this is going 428 00:21:12,319 --> 00:21:18,559 to be looming this whole You're you are a Zionist. 429 00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:20,000 You know, this is what we get this all the 430 00:21:20,039 --> 00:21:22,000 time on our socials. I hate that, I don't know, 431 00:21:22,079 --> 00:21:25,039 like the word zionist to me, I have never heard 432 00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:27,079 that word so much as I have in the past 433 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:29,279 two years, you know what I mean, Like I just 434 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,559 like I said, we've been doing this for a long time. 435 00:21:31,599 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 5: It's like that and the word genocide. 436 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 4: I feel like I've heard those two words more in 437 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:36,319 the past two years. 438 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 5: Then it's insane. 439 00:21:38,319 --> 00:21:40,880 Speaker 3: But well, zionis in theory, but is a very simple 440 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,079 and quite beautiful concept. I mean it is. 441 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 5: I mean, it's but they've but they've made it bad. 442 00:21:46,039 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 3: Correct, They've bastardized it, They've made it a pejorative. But 443 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,359 I mean literally, the first five books of the Bible, 444 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,559 what we call it Torah, what Christians just know as 445 00:21:54,599 --> 00:21:57,240 the Pentaeia, the first five books there, I mean, I 446 00:21:57,279 --> 00:22:00,680 would argue it's essentially a Zionist document, really, I mean, 447 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,839 I mean, I mean a large part of the story 448 00:22:03,039 --> 00:22:06,240 is is the Jewish people finding their way to the 449 00:22:06,319 --> 00:22:08,519 land of Israel. I mean, that's a large part of 450 00:22:08,519 --> 00:22:10,599 the story of the first five books of the Bible there. 451 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,400 That seems pretty Zionis to me. So it's not particularly 452 00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:16,240 shocking concept. But you're totally right. The left has highjacked 453 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:16,839 this word, as they have. 454 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 4: Somebody and some of the right I mean, I'm delighted 455 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:20,599 to be called a Desigonist. 456 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,079 Speaker 5: I'm fine with that. I'm happy with that, delighted. 457 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,839 Speaker 4: But what really bothers me is that like on our 458 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:29,279 especially like Instagram, because I run our Instagram, you would 459 00:22:29,279 --> 00:22:32,279 not believe the amount of conservatives that come out there 460 00:22:32,319 --> 00:22:34,319 and they're like, use Zionist, and they say it in 461 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,839 such a derogatory manner, and then they'll be like, you 462 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:38,079 got your seven thousand. 463 00:22:37,799 --> 00:22:40,599 Speaker 5: Dollars, you get this. They'll accuse us of being paid. 464 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:42,400 Speaker 4: Which I would be delighted to be paid by Israel, 465 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,079 too happy to take a check to do it. But 466 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,039 I mean saying the thing, we will always support Israel. 467 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,400 We're happy to take a check. I mean, if anybody's listening. 468 00:22:52,599 --> 00:22:54,640 But this is the thing is that we get, we 469 00:22:54,759 --> 00:22:58,000 get so you know, hit for that, like people get, 470 00:22:58,119 --> 00:22:58,720 they just get. 471 00:22:58,720 --> 00:22:59,799 Speaker 5: They beat up on us for that. 472 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 4: I'm like, this is the weirdest place to be right 473 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:08,160 now as a conservative pundit who is a Christian Zionist. 474 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,440 I guess that's what I am. I've just always been 475 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,640 a Christian who supports the Jews. I guess I love 476 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,240 Jewish people and I love so I don't it's just 477 00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:18,920 a bizarre place to be. And so I'm I feel 478 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,680 like this is going to be a place of fracture 479 00:23:20,759 --> 00:23:24,039 in the next election like we've never seen before. Because 480 00:23:24,039 --> 00:23:26,519 when you mentioned the Tucker thing, and when you when 481 00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:28,319 you mention and you, you know, bring up the fact 482 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,480 that he is basically saying that we are scum of 483 00:23:31,519 --> 00:23:35,680 the earth, that's going to be a problem. Because he is, 484 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,160 He's very influential. That's going to be an issue, I believe. 485 00:23:39,759 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 3: Look, I wish that you know, it's kind of funny 486 00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:45,079 because a lot of the a lot of the anti 487 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,680 Israel folks say, oh, you know, like I'm a flo 488 00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:50,960 with Israel, But I wish we never talked about it. 489 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:52,799 Basically that we talked. We talked about it far less. 490 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,759 Guess what, I literally agree with that, I literally agree 491 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,960 that we talked about it far less. In fact, when 492 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,920 I started, when I start to write the draft proposal 493 00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:05,599 for my long overdue first book two and a half 494 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,599 years ago, now, it had nothing to do with this. 495 00:24:08,279 --> 00:24:11,359 It was a totally unrelated book about like you know, 496 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,079 generally kind of you know, my vision for conservative governance 497 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:18,559 and you know, domestic policy, etc. There And the only 498 00:24:18,599 --> 00:24:23,559 reason that I switched gears entirely was not necessarily October seventh, 499 00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:25,640 but the world's reaction to October seventh, I was like, 500 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,119 oh God, I mean, like, this is truly insane. I've 501 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,279 got a trifle back there. And personally, you know, the 502 00:24:31,319 --> 00:24:34,160 reason that I've spoken at a lot of more about 503 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,079 this issue probably over the past two years, is just 504 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,440 due to that, due to the fact that there was 505 00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:40,279 just so much animus and so much hatred. So, you know, 506 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,960 I I can only speak for myself, but I don't 507 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,240 feel like I am doing the over talking. I feel 508 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,599 I feel like the other side is doing like the 509 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,559 over talking, and we're kind of playing defense over here, Franklin. 510 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:55,799 So but you know, it saddens me certainly that this 511 00:24:55,839 --> 00:25:01,960 issue has become so divisive in American politics in general. Look, 512 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,799 I mean, on the other hand, I don't want to 513 00:25:03,799 --> 00:25:06,359 over exaggerate, right, So even at that Turning Point USA 514 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,480 conference in July, the one of where I debated Dave Smith, 515 00:25:08,799 --> 00:25:11,319 you know, Charlie his team did a poll of the 516 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,839 whole audience roughly four thousand people, give or take. They're 517 00:25:13,839 --> 00:25:17,400 probably younger folks there, but many activists and seventy three 518 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,400 percent called themselves pro Israel for whatever it's worth. Now, Okay, 519 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,039 now we can quibble and say that seventy three percent 520 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,680 probably would have been ninety percent a decade ago, which 521 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,440 it probably would have been, but that's still that's still 522 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:33,839 a healthy, a healthy majority. And you know the twenty 523 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,519 seven percent, the ones who are not maybe are a 524 00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:39,960 little more vulgar, and crews such as this interlock yader 525 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,039 of J. D. Evans is at the Oxford, Mississippi event 526 00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:44,680 where he's talking about ethnic cleansing there, and no doubt 527 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,279 about it that we have a bit of a problem 528 00:25:46,319 --> 00:25:48,839 when it comes to Flentes and and that whole that 529 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,400 whole crew, that whole crowd more more generally there, but 530 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,759 you know, overall when it comes to these specific issues, 531 00:25:56,599 --> 00:26:00,119 because look, I mean, in the American political valance, we're 532 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,079 where you stand on the Jews is just a proxy 533 00:26:02,079 --> 00:26:05,240 of where you stand on religion in the Biblical inheritance 534 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,359 more generally, which is ultimately procsy for where you stand 535 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,279 really on America. So I mean, the rights is still 536 00:26:10,319 --> 00:26:12,359 a much healthier place on these issues than the left, 537 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,160 which is like you know, decades and decades decades gone. 538 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,119 So I don't want to overstate just how bad it 539 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,359 has gotten. But it's definitely considerably worse than it was 540 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,400 as recently as like five years ago there, and we 541 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,720 have a lot of work to do. 542 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 5: Do you. 543 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: I want to just go back to the Candace stuff 544 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,160 for a minute, because there was I know that you 545 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,519 appeared on Aaron Milan's show and talked That was right 546 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,880 after she twisted this tweet of yours about public executions 547 00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,440 to make it sound as if you were predicting what 548 00:26:45,599 --> 00:26:48,160 happened to Charlie, even though it was clear to anybody 549 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,839 with like actual brains that you were referring to what 550 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,640 everybody was referring to, which was Arena Zaruska. 551 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,039 Speaker 2: So you had mentioned on that show. 552 00:26:57,079 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 1: And we're very curious about this because you do have 553 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:00,359 a a lot. 554 00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:04,160 Speaker 2: You're a lawyer by trade. Are you still pursuing a lawsuit? 555 00:27:04,599 --> 00:27:09,160 Pretty please? Because, like I just the way that your 556 00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:10,359 the way that your. 557 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 1: Words get misconstrued, it makes me, It just makes me rage. 558 00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:17,079 Speaker 2: And it's the same thing that's happening with your piece 559 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,079 in the in the Daily in the Daily Manvel today. 560 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:22,559 Speaker 5: It's right, the utalizing thing. 561 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pure a midigated anti semitism. I mean, there's 562 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:28,000 no other way to say it. I mean, if someone 563 00:27:28,039 --> 00:27:30,839 who was not wearing a kipa was, you know, tweeting 564 00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:34,960 about the execution of Irena Zutzka's murderer, or or or 565 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,960 talking about you know, neutralizing a political thread whatever I mean, 566 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,799 I mean, no one would even think twice about what 567 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,599 about what he or she meant? So look to answer 568 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,319 your question directly. I I am a lawyer a background. 569 00:27:47,319 --> 00:27:50,079 I got clerkes on a federal Court of Appeals. I've 570 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,079 written piece of constitutional scholarship. I've spoken the top law schools. 571 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:54,519 I know a thing or two by the First Amendment 572 00:27:54,559 --> 00:27:57,680 and defamation law. So based on all of my own understanding, 573 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,920 based on my own discussions with lawyers there, there absolutely 574 00:28:01,079 --> 00:28:04,839 is a a potentially viable defamation case to be had 575 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,720 against against Candice Owens. I'm not initiating a lawsuit at 576 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,640 this exact time for various reasons that have nothing to 577 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,920 do with the legal strength, which is very strong, but 578 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,279 to kind of tantalize you and leave you a little 579 00:28:16,279 --> 00:28:19,000 bit on the hooks there. The statue of limitations for 580 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,839 a defamation claim in the state of Florida where I 581 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,640 live is two years, So there's plenty of time to 582 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,559 kind of think this through a little more and see 583 00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:26,640 what else she perhaps has to say in the future. 584 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,799 Speaker 5: We would encourage that well. 585 00:28:29,839 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: And that actually leads to another question that is sort 586 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,920 of lawyery, I guess, for lack of a better word. 587 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,720 She recently slapped Nathan Livingstone who clipped some of her 588 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,720 book club videos and demonstrated like how psych goes she 589 00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:47,599 sounded in those, and she hit him with one of 590 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,720 those like copyright takedown notices. So we talked about this 591 00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:54,920 on our show because I heard the people that were like, well, 592 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,000 clearly that was behind a paywall, so he didn't have 593 00:28:57,079 --> 00:28:59,920 a right to clip it and share it. But then 594 00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:02,599 other folks were saying, that's obviously fair use because he 595 00:29:02,759 --> 00:29:04,200 was providing commentary. 596 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 2: What what is your take on that? 597 00:29:08,119 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 3: So I have no real legal take, to be honest 598 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,200 with you, intellectual property law, copyright, trademark, fair use is 599 00:29:14,559 --> 00:29:16,480 that's just like genuinely not my area, to be honest 600 00:29:16,519 --> 00:29:18,400 with you, so I know very little about it. My 601 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,240 vague impression is is that the paywall is not legally 602 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,039 significant in this case that when you are a figure 603 00:29:25,079 --> 00:29:26,960 of Candi's own as a statue and you're putting content 604 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,440 on the internet, it probably is fair use. But that's 605 00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:34,559 that's my very kind of general, vague instinct. You know, 606 00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:36,359 you know, I feel bad for Nathan Livingstone, who does 607 00:29:36,359 --> 00:29:38,000 a lot of good work when it comes to exposing 608 00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:40,519 you know, Candace and frankly a lot of this you know, 609 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,160 anti Western civilization crap out there. But I don't have 610 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,160 kind of any particular legal expertise in that, to be 611 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:46,599 honest with you. 612 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:48,359 Speaker 2: Okay, all right, that's fair, that's fair. 613 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: And then one one other question that goes back to 614 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,119 the group text, another thing that you were taken out 615 00:29:54,119 --> 00:29:57,240 of context for and attack for mercilessly there was you 616 00:29:57,279 --> 00:30:00,599 had explained. I thought, in a way that may perfect 617 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:05,880 sense that Charlie's comment about inviting Candace to TPUSA advance 618 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:10,559 on him abandoning the Israel Cause I thought your explanation 619 00:30:10,599 --> 00:30:13,599 made so much sense because you know him, the people 620 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,359 in your chat know him, knew his heart, and. 621 00:30:17,319 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 2: Yet she took that and just absolutely ran with it. 622 00:30:21,559 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: Can you can you just contextualize that conversation. 623 00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 5: A bit more? 624 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:33,079 Speaker 3: Sure? So this was the day before Charlie's horrific, unconscientable assassination, 625 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,640 you know, to an extent byway, it still feels kind 626 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:37,960 of surreal, honestly. I mean, I still feel like this 627 00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:41,200 is a nightmare. I'm gonna wake up and it's just 628 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:46,359 not the case. So the day before, on September ninth, 629 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,559 I guess that would have been Charlie found out that 630 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,960 one of his major donors, who happens to be a 631 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,640 a AH and very pro Israel, was pulling a two 632 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,119 million dollars a year donation out of frustration with the 633 00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:02,920 platform in Tucker Carlson, and you know, maybe more generally 634 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,359 just kind of the way that the orgizators had it. 635 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,640 I don't really know it, but I think it was 636 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,039 probably mostly related to Tucker. Look, two things here can 637 00:31:09,079 --> 00:31:11,559 be true at once. As I said in this post 638 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,519 that you're referring to. On the one hand, no one 639 00:31:14,559 --> 00:31:16,640 has a right to a donation. If you operate a 640 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:18,759 five O one C three five one C four whatever, 641 00:31:18,839 --> 00:31:21,440 you know, you have to maintain those relations. I mean 642 00:31:21,599 --> 00:31:24,319 to kind of go back to the abortion analogy. If 643 00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:26,599 you are a donor to a pro life organization, then 644 00:31:26,599 --> 00:31:30,759 that pro life organization at its major gallery conference has 645 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,400 a notable like pro partial birth abortion speaker. You're gonna 646 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,119 stop donating. I mean, like, this is like a very 647 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,319 reasonable thing to do there. So every donor has to 648 00:31:39,359 --> 00:31:42,000 look out for his or her best checkbooks. I mean, 649 00:31:42,039 --> 00:31:44,039 money is a limited resource there. There's a lot of 650 00:31:44,119 --> 00:31:46,559 organizations that fight the good fight, so to speak. There, 651 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,400 So the donor is entitled to do whatever he wants. Charlie, 652 00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:52,799 as the former CEO of Turning Point, is obviously entitled 653 00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:54,960 to react to whoever he wants to as well. And 654 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,240 this is a large donor. He has every right to 655 00:31:57,279 --> 00:31:59,559 be frustrated over that there. Frankly, I think I think 656 00:31:59,559 --> 00:32:02,039 I would have into properly there. So this was a 657 00:32:02,079 --> 00:32:06,200 close group chat where you know, we condis, you know, 658 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,519 say things with the with the expectation that these things 659 00:32:09,519 --> 00:32:11,119 would be kept private about the way. I mean, you know, 660 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,160 that's kind of how group chats work. There's no inspectation 661 00:32:13,279 --> 00:32:15,119 that there will be screenshots and leaks or any kind 662 00:32:15,119 --> 00:32:18,640 of shenanigans like that. And you know, he was frustrated, 663 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,799 and the notion that he was actually gonna invite Candice 664 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,880 is insane. He was obviously not going to invite Candice Owens. 665 00:32:25,359 --> 00:32:26,880 He was really frustrated, like, oh I might as well 666 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,960 just like invite Candas at this point there he was frustrated, 667 00:32:30,079 --> 00:32:33,640 and part of that frustration was Charlie was genuinely frustrated 668 00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:37,960 with how Israel defended itself over the course of the 669 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,599 two year war. We saw these fun letter. 670 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:42,759 Speaker 5: He was very clear about. 671 00:32:42,519 --> 00:32:45,079 Speaker 3: That exactly, and I read that letter back in junior July. 672 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,200 His team gave me access to it, and it was 673 00:32:48,279 --> 00:32:50,799 it was a fantastic letter. I agreed with basically the 674 00:32:50,839 --> 00:32:53,720 word I think, I mean essentially the whole thing, which, 675 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:55,799 by the way, the very first line of that letter began. 676 00:32:56,319 --> 00:32:58,440 You know, as a Christian, one of my greatest joys 677 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,680 in life is befriending Jewish and defend the state of Israel. 678 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:03,440 So I mean, you know, talk about someone who, to 679 00:33:03,839 --> 00:33:05,759 Carlston actually considers to be the scum of the earth, 680 00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:12,279 right right, And anyway, the relevant point about this, uh, 681 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,039 this is Shang you're talking about there. The day before 682 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,160 his murder is that happened around three point thirty four 683 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,160 pm in the afternoon Eastern time, if I married the 684 00:33:20,119 --> 00:33:23,759 time stand correctly. Two hours after that, at six pm 685 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,759 Eastern time, we had a little zoom call that Charlie 686 00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:32,440 himself organized between me our mutual friend Rabbi Payesock Wilicky, 687 00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:36,279 who lives in Jerusalem. He used to be on the 688 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,799 you know, on a lot of shows, or maybe he 689 00:33:38,839 --> 00:33:40,319 still is. I mean, he was kind of a figure 690 00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:43,319 in right wing media. So it was me, Rabbi Wilicky, 691 00:33:43,599 --> 00:33:46,680 a couple of Charlie's producers, and Charlie And the entire 692 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,640 purpose of this one hour zoom call was he wanted 693 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,720 to have this call the day before he began his 694 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,759 national campus tour because he wanted to make sure that 695 00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:57,880 he had all of the right talking points, the right 696 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,400 way to communicate, how to best defense and to the 697 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,200 Jewish people and the US Israel relationship. So we talked 698 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,079 about how do I respond to accusations of genocide, how 699 00:34:06,119 --> 00:34:08,280 do I respond to accusations of famine, how do I 700 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,079 respond to accusations of two state solution, one state solution. 701 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,840 We kind of spent an hour kind of going issue 702 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:16,239 by issue, Here's how I respond there, And he was 703 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,199 really pleased with how that meaning went. And in this 704 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,599 post that you're referring to, where I you know, I 705 00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:23,719 kind of hate the whole screenshot game. If he just 706 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,239 feels really icky, I mean, especially with like a dead friend. 707 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,639 I mean, it's horrific, but in the interest of clearing 708 00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:32,960 my own name, if nothing else, I took this screenshot 709 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,760 of Charlie, you know, then messaging like an hour or 710 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:38,719 two whatever after that zoom call saying like thank you 711 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:41,559 guys for the call, super helpful, which we're actually the 712 00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:44,320 last messages that he ever sent to that group CHEF. 713 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,079 So again, someone who was like literally turning on Israel 714 00:34:47,519 --> 00:34:50,840 would not have had that zoom call the night before 715 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,079 his national campus tour began for the express purpose made 716 00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:56,480 sure that he had all of the best answers possible 717 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:00,239 to respond to the outpouring of anti Semitism and anti 718 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:01,719 Israelism on college campuses. 719 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,519 Speaker 1: Why why are people not I mean, people are making 720 00:35:06,559 --> 00:35:11,199 this so much more complicated and seedy and conspiratorial than 721 00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,000 it needs to be. And I will never understand it, 722 00:35:15,039 --> 00:35:16,920 and I and I actually don't understand. 723 00:35:17,039 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 2: And maybe you have. 724 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,039 Speaker 1: Perspective about this, like, is there a reason that the 725 00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:24,840 folks at TPUSA, including Andrew and Blake and the rest 726 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,679 of them are being so cagey about not directly calling 727 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,719 out what she is saying? 728 00:35:32,159 --> 00:35:32,599 Speaker 2: I mean, is it? 729 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: Is it because the investigation is ongoing, Because I mean 730 00:35:36,519 --> 00:35:40,079 they do they do, you know, reply to some of it, 731 00:35:40,119 --> 00:35:43,239 I guess, but they never name her, they never just 732 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:44,360 call her out directly. 733 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 2: And I don't really understand it. 734 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,559 Speaker 3: Well, your first question, you know that you don't understand 735 00:35:50,599 --> 00:35:53,320 why this is why people are kind of mudding the 736 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,760 water is when it seems so clear. There's a very 737 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,599 simple answer for that, which is that Jews are involved. 738 00:35:58,639 --> 00:36:02,199 I mean, this is this is all part it's it's 739 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,480 it's very it's very ugly stuff. This is all part 740 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:11,119 of an insidious effort after the assassination of his entire generations, 741 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,239 leading Christian Zionists to try to paint him as turning 742 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,280 on the Jews, as not a friend of the Jews, 743 00:36:17,559 --> 00:36:21,639 therefore trying to redefine his legacy for future generations as 744 00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:25,119 well as shape and steer the the direction of turning 745 00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:27,320 point USA. That's the that's the entire purpose here, that 746 00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,039 that is the entire reason that they're all doing this. 747 00:36:30,639 --> 00:36:32,920 That's the entire reason that the conspiracists are saying that 748 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,239 Israel killed Charlie Kirk and Candice said that I did, 749 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,519 and like, I mean, that's that's the whole that's the 750 00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:40,239 whole reason. That's the whole reason that they're trying to 751 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,239 paint Charlie as something other than than what he was, 752 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,840 which was a bridge builder between Jews and Christians, between 753 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,840 the US and Israel communities of faith, and and on 754 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:52,199 and on and on. So that's the first part of 755 00:36:52,199 --> 00:36:56,079 your question as far as why Turning Point has thus 756 00:36:56,119 --> 00:37:01,639 far not issued many, if any, definitive statement. I obviously 757 00:37:01,639 --> 00:37:03,440 can't speak for Turning Point. I I don't I don't 758 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,000 get paid by Turning Point. I I I I think 759 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,000 they should. I'll be I'll be very cam with you. 760 00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:10,639 I think that would be helpful. I certainly, I certainly 761 00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:13,880 would have welcomed some sort of, you know, ammunition, some 762 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,519 sort of definitive statements when I was kind of in 763 00:37:15,559 --> 00:37:19,400 the throes of Candice Ownes's digital jihad against me a 764 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,079 few weeks ago. That would you know that that would 765 00:37:21,079 --> 00:37:22,559 have been nice. By the way, it's not just me, 766 00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:24,760 I mean she had she had she had a recent 767 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,000 episode about about Mikey McCoy, Uh, unbelievable, like the nicest 768 00:37:29,039 --> 00:37:31,000 guy in the world. I mean, his father, pastor Rob 769 00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:34,119 was Charley's spiritual mentor. I mean, you know, she's gone, 770 00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:37,039 after she's gone, after Andrew as well. So she's thought 771 00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:39,559 she's out there a lot of folks Erica Kirk as well. 772 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,320 I mean, so, uh, they definitely have grounds well beyond 773 00:37:43,519 --> 00:37:46,159 you know, little Josh Hammer to go and you know, 774 00:37:46,519 --> 00:37:49,760 defend their name, defend their integrity against this. As to 775 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,599 exactly why they're not doing so, I couldn't exactly tell 776 00:37:53,599 --> 00:37:54,119 you to be honce. 777 00:37:54,039 --> 00:37:56,760 Speaker 4: Me yeah, because it's not they're not just she's not 778 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,239 just redefining his legacy. She's trying to redefine him as 779 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,400 a person. And that is like if I were. 780 00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:10,039 Speaker 6: His wife, I would be swinging, would be so much Josh, 781 00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:12,039 you know what I mean, I just and if a friend, so, 782 00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:13,880 I mean, I we do, we have questions. 783 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:14,880 Speaker 5: There's got to be a reason. 784 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 4: There's got to be a reason why they're not because 785 00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:19,760 I would be old school. 786 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,119 Speaker 3: On well I think I mean, look, I think the 787 00:38:21,199 --> 00:38:23,280 organization is just in a bit of flux. It probably 788 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,679 in a bit of turmoil to yeah, they just lost 789 00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:30,119 the guy who was was the organization. I mean, I 790 00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:34,039 mean Erica Kirk has been named the new CEO Chairman, 791 00:38:34,079 --> 00:38:36,239 whatever her exact titles are, and she spoke with the 792 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:39,440 old miss event last night. But I mean, she's also 793 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,480 the grieving widow with two. 794 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: Young children, which makes it all that much more cruel. 795 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,199 Speaker 5: It is cruel, Mack. It is so it is. 796 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,119 Speaker 4: It's just disgusting, is what it is. It's all so 797 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,159 gross and yeah. 798 00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: It is so okay, So final question before we let 799 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:57,840 you go, unless Amy, Joe, if you have something else. No, 800 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,079 I'm jumping and I'm good, all right, And so the 801 00:39:01,199 --> 00:39:05,159 question is about your Daily Mail piece about Tucker and 802 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,199 this whole controversy that's been blown up about your word 803 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,519 of the word that you used neutralize the Fox and 804 00:39:12,559 --> 00:39:16,159 the Henhouse are because we've been trying to I mean, 805 00:39:16,199 --> 00:39:18,559 to me, it's again, it's just like you posted the 806 00:39:18,559 --> 00:39:21,760 definition that you used. It was the very first definition, 807 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:24,800 the most commonly used definition. Not sure why people are 808 00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:28,159 making this a thing, but they are looking back. Would 809 00:39:28,199 --> 00:39:30,360 you choose a different word now or do you just 810 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,800 think this is absolute insanity that people are assuming once 811 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,480 again that you are somehow in on executions and like 812 00:39:38,639 --> 00:39:39,400 murdering people. 813 00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 3: Well, yes to both your questions. I mean, is it 814 00:39:43,119 --> 00:39:47,639 is obviously beyond absurd. I mean, the Daily Mail is 815 00:39:47,639 --> 00:39:50,639 one of the largest newspapers in the UK. It's probably 816 00:39:50,679 --> 00:39:53,760 one of the largest newspapers in the Western world. There 817 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,280 were at least three different editors at The Daily Mail 818 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,440 who read this column. No one even bad in an 819 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,760 eye leash for this for the very simple reason that 820 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,039 to someone with more than one or two brain cells, 821 00:40:07,199 --> 00:40:10,639 this is this, this, this should be really obvious, so 822 00:40:10,679 --> 00:40:13,519 that that that is just clearly true. And the corollary 823 00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:15,760 to that is that whether it's Candice or Dave Smith 824 00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,400 or all these usual actors, there they are willfully and 825 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:23,360 disingenuously mis distorting and warping my words because it all 826 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,039 has an agenda. And the agenda, let's let's be very 827 00:40:26,039 --> 00:40:30,079 clear about the agenda, is nothing less than to kick 828 00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:33,400 Jews out of out of MAGA, to kick Jews out 829 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:35,880 of the American rights. Frankly, if you really want to 830 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,159 extraple even further, I think a lot of I think 831 00:40:38,199 --> 00:40:40,239 a lot what a lot of these people really desire 832 00:40:40,639 --> 00:40:42,920 is to get the Jews out of America, to actually 833 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,079 have like a Queen Isabella, you know, fourteen ninety two style, 834 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,639 you know, edict of expulsion of the Jews, but at 835 00:40:48,679 --> 00:40:50,920 a bare minimum, get them out of Mega. That that 836 00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,320 is clearly what is what is motivating a lot of 837 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:58,519 these particularly irksome, insidious actors, and that that is definitely 838 00:40:58,679 --> 00:41:02,519 what is behind this clearly orchestrated outrage campaign on me. 839 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,320 Yet again, on the other hand, on the other hand, yes, 840 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,159 I mean, if I knew this was coming, I obviously 841 00:41:09,199 --> 00:41:12,000 would have used a different word, of which there are many, 842 00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:15,079 But I mean, just to say the obvious. I don't 843 00:41:15,079 --> 00:41:17,760 think this audience needs to hear this. A fox in 844 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,400 a hen house is a very well known metaphor in 845 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,199 the English language. It's like, it's like speaking of killing 846 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,480 two birds of one stone. You're not literally talking about 847 00:41:25,559 --> 00:41:28,639 killing two birds. It's a very it's it's a very 848 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:33,199 very common way way of speaking. And to speak of 849 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,760 neutralizing the threat. After my op ed just spoke of 850 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,400 Tucker as having as his goals not just the belittling 851 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,079 of Jews and Evangelic Christians, but also the obliteration of 852 00:41:43,199 --> 00:41:45,920 Maga itself. Whi's my actual thesis there, that's why he's 853 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,920 a threat, because I think he's actually he's a threat 854 00:41:48,519 --> 00:41:51,920 not just Jews, not just Evangelicals, not just Christian design as, 855 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,519 but to literally Maga itself. So you neutralize that that 856 00:41:55,599 --> 00:41:58,320 threat when the threat is in the form of influence 857 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,880 and policy ideas and general worldview. And the way you 858 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,679 do that is you have a battle of ideas within 859 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,280 the right. Okay, I'm talking here about about an intra 860 00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:11,480 right battle of ideas, and how I hope, indeed I pray, 861 00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,960 that the forces of sanity within the broader right prevail 862 00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:17,880 over the forces of insanity. That is how you neutralize 863 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,519 an intellectual or philosophical threat. That's obviously what I meant. 864 00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,599 And Frank, anyone interpreting to the contrary is is a 865 00:42:25,679 --> 00:42:29,719 genuine moron and or willfully wilfully disingenuous. It's probably a 866 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,360 lot more of the latter than the former. But despite 867 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,159 all that, yes, of course I would have used some 868 00:42:34,199 --> 00:42:35,719 other syndom in hindsight. 869 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 1: These are the same people, though, who have no problem 870 00:42:38,639 --> 00:42:42,039 with the absolutely disgusting film that comes out of Nick Quentas. 871 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 5: I mean, platform that guy. 872 00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:50,760 Speaker 3: They're trying to tone police a certain verb at the 873 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:52,559 literally the last ends of my opbed. While on the 874 00:42:52,599 --> 00:42:57,360 other hand, if you object to Tucker platiforming Flentis, then 875 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,519 you're accused yourself of tone policing. I mean, I mean, 876 00:43:00,119 --> 00:43:01,800 I mean square that circle for. 877 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:07,480 Speaker 5: Me, Yeah, I mean like Stalin is great, right, I mean, like, yeah, 878 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:08,760 that's it. 879 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,119 Speaker 2: All just seems so crazy. 880 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,480 Speaker 5: Everything's upside down. I can't. 881 00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:15,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, Josh, thank you. You've cleared up a lot for us. 882 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:16,440 We wanted to. 883 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,079 Speaker 1: We wanted to give you an opportunity to sort of 884 00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:22,360 make your case because we try to do it along 885 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,880 with you, alongside of you on Twitter, because we see 886 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,760 the attacks. We know how baseless and ridiculous they are. 887 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,480 We don't understand why people just don't absorb the most 888 00:43:30,519 --> 00:43:33,559 common sense, simplest explanations for things. 889 00:43:33,639 --> 00:43:36,800 Speaker 2: But this is where we are now. So we appreciate 890 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:37,239 your time. 891 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:37,679 Speaker 4: We do