WEBVTT

1
00:00:02.200 --> 00:00:10.599
<v Speaker 1>You see something's going to happen. What What's going to happen?

2
00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:17.120
<v Speaker 2>What a.

3
00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:26.760
<v Speaker 3>Cool Welcome to the Occult Rejects.

4
00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:30.320
<v Speaker 4>This episode we got a very very special guest, somebody

5
00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:31.879
<v Speaker 4>I can't even believe I got on the show and.

6
00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:32.719
<v Speaker 3>This is very exciting.

7
00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:36.119
<v Speaker 4>But before we get to Eg Baker, we will introduce

8
00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:40.520
<v Speaker 4>the other rejects and with me today I got Ethan Indigo.

9
00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:41.399
<v Speaker 3>What is going on?

10
00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:41.479
<v Speaker 5>So?

11
00:00:41.719 --> 00:00:42.280
<v Speaker 3>How are you.

12
00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:44.280
<v Speaker 6>Well?

13
00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:44.759
<v Speaker 1>Peace?

14
00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:47.320
<v Speaker 5>Is an honor to be here and speak with you

15
00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:49.799
<v Speaker 5>guys and learn from Mike. This is going to be exciting.

16
00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:53.799
<v Speaker 5>I'm really really looking forward to this. Uh Ethan Indigo

17
00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:58.000
<v Speaker 5>Smith on all the social media easy to find frequently

18
00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:01.600
<v Speaker 5>writing articles and occasionally even books.

19
00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:03.520
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, honor to be here with all of you.

20
00:01:04.599 --> 00:01:06.159
<v Speaker 4>Thank you for making it, sir. I know it's like

21
00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:09.680
<v Speaker 4>eight o'clock for you, so I appreciate it. And my

22
00:01:09.879 --> 00:01:12.040
<v Speaker 4>man Jin then Ninja, what is going on?

23
00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:12.239
<v Speaker 5>Sir?

24
00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:14.439
<v Speaker 3>How I? What's up? Boss?

25
00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:15.280
<v Speaker 1>Mister ninety three?

26
00:01:16.400 --> 00:01:20.879
<v Speaker 7>I'm going to not famboy maybe well I probably will.

27
00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:22.840
<v Speaker 7>So I'm a big fan of Ike show and I

28
00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:26.079
<v Speaker 7>in general. And you know I did speak with Greg

29
00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:30.760
<v Speaker 7>k yesterday as I subtle Bragg's pre recording, and we

30
00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:35.599
<v Speaker 7>talked about Ike's book The Formless Fire and Quote. It

31
00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:39.920
<v Speaker 7>is one of the best esoteric contemporary esoteric texts.

32
00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Of probably the twenty first century.

33
00:01:41.359 --> 00:01:48.040
<v Speaker 7>So you know, so it's big words and so I'm

34
00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:49.879
<v Speaker 7>I'm just I'm a little bit in awe.

35
00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:51.439
<v Speaker 1>So I'll try out to be a nerd.

36
00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.319
<v Speaker 7>But if you want to follow me, you can follow

37
00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:55.680
<v Speaker 7>me on Twitter x at woocomme Born w UK and

38
00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:58.879
<v Speaker 7>g Reborn can follow me on Threshold Saints at Threshold

39
00:01:58.879 --> 00:02:01.319
<v Speaker 7>Saints on both x I, which is the show, and

40
00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:04.840
<v Speaker 7>of course The Gray Lodge the True Gray Lodge dot

41
00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:07.599
<v Speaker 7>Com t r v E Gray Lodge dot com and

42
00:02:07.640 --> 00:02:10.520
<v Speaker 7>Matt Mura is of course our my co host in

43
00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.520
<v Speaker 7>that as well as the webmaster and he runs all

44
00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.800
<v Speaker 7>our socials. So thank you so much. And yeah, I'm

45
00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:19.879
<v Speaker 7>really excited. So thanks Snick for setting this up. I

46
00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:22.360
<v Speaker 7>know we've talked about it for over a year, so wow,

47
00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:26.159
<v Speaker 7>thank you. Hey, you know that'll problem. Hey, my man, Matt,

48
00:02:26.199 --> 00:02:28.319
<v Speaker 7>I'm glad you can make it against her. Always love

49
00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:31.159
<v Speaker 7>having you here, bro, so let everybody know in case

50
00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:32.319
<v Speaker 7>they don't know what you're dealing with.

51
00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:36.360
<v Speaker 8>Awesome, super happy to be here. As well, and I

52
00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:39.680
<v Speaker 8>was checking out Ike's work and it's really fascinating. Let's

53
00:02:40.039 --> 00:02:43.439
<v Speaker 8>have an amazing talk today. So again, Matt Mura always

54
00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:50.120
<v Speaker 8>at mattmore nineteen on all socials that is Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, YouTube, Twitch,

55
00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:53.199
<v Speaker 8>maybe some other places site for that. There's also my

56
00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:56.759
<v Speaker 8>website Kabala dot com. That's k A A b A

57
00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:00.000
<v Speaker 8>l a h dot com. A lot of cool updates

58
00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:03.360
<v Speaker 8>there that I did last week. Really excited to coming

59
00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:06.919
<v Speaker 8>back to working on it and also doing readings, So

60
00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.719
<v Speaker 8>a lot of space to do readings now, which is

61
00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:13.479
<v Speaker 8>kind of betas So if you get it, you're in

62
00:03:13.520 --> 00:03:15.960
<v Speaker 8>for a good treat because afterwards, I'll definitely rise the

63
00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:18.719
<v Speaker 8>prices because it takes a lot of work to do

64
00:03:18.759 --> 00:03:22.280
<v Speaker 8>all this stuff. But I'll keep everyone that kind of

65
00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:26.199
<v Speaker 8>started now in a grandfather state, so always getting the updates.

66
00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:29.240
<v Speaker 8>And yeah there's the spaces as well. We will likely

67
00:03:30.159 --> 00:03:35.439
<v Speaker 8>upload some older spaces in YouTube the coming weeks, and yeah,

68
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:38.319
<v Speaker 8>that's going to be really good stuff. Thanks again for calling.

69
00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:41.439
<v Speaker 4>No of course, and thank you very much for joining

70
00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:45.400
<v Speaker 4>us today, sir. And finally today we are joined by

71
00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:47.680
<v Speaker 4>Ike Baker and No Jamatra heads. We are not talking

72
00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:50.240
<v Speaker 4>about the Cabala of Nine Chambers. This is the author

73
00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:53.120
<v Speaker 4>of a Formless Fire and Etheric Magic, and the mind

74
00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:56.280
<v Speaker 4>behind the podcast are Canam. Ike's work lives right between

75
00:03:56.280 --> 00:03:59.919
<v Speaker 4>the sweet spot between scholarship and practice, with a Western

76
00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.639
<v Speaker 4>so teric history, initiatory traditions and the actual mechanics of

77
00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:07.159
<v Speaker 4>ritual and theogy without the bullshit. He's also trained in

78
00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:10.520
<v Speaker 4>energy work modalities like reiki and keegong, and his newest

79
00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.120
<v Speaker 4>work builds a full system for working with the ethereal

80
00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:17.800
<v Speaker 4>with the ether as a practical experience experiential technology.

81
00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:18.720
<v Speaker 5>Uh.

82
00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:21.199
<v Speaker 4>Very happy again, Like Jim was saying, we'll try not

83
00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:24.079
<v Speaker 4>to fanboy this guy too much, but Ike, I'm very

84
00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:26.319
<v Speaker 4>very happy to have you on the show. And anything

85
00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:29.079
<v Speaker 4>that I left out, please let everybody know you know

86
00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:31.480
<v Speaker 4>about yourself and where they can find all your amazing work.

87
00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:32.920
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

88
00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Well, I really appreciate you having me on. Honestly, you

89
00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:40.160
<v Speaker 2>guys have had some big guests. You've had some big guests,

90
00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:42.720
<v Speaker 2>You've had some great conversations, so I'm really happy to

91
00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.839
<v Speaker 2>be able to participate. Yeah, you can find me on

92
00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:49.360
<v Speaker 2>ike ike Baker dot com. I K E B A

93
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:54.079
<v Speaker 2>K E r uh anything you want about me is

94
00:04:54.160 --> 00:04:58.000
<v Speaker 2>up there. I've got uh my three latest you know

95
00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:03.560
<v Speaker 2>podcast episodes. I've got the last documentary style presentation from

96
00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:08.000
<v Speaker 2>the Arcanem channel, which you can see it in uh

97
00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:11.639
<v Speaker 2>just below in the bottom left or right of my screen.

98
00:05:11.879 --> 00:05:15.439
<v Speaker 2>A R C A n v M was foolish enough

99
00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:19.519
<v Speaker 2>to use the Latin type setting, and uh uh that's that.

100
00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:22.879
<v Speaker 2>You can find that on YouTube, Spotify and Apple podcasts.

101
00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:25.160
<v Speaker 6>Uh. I like to keep things.

102
00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:28.439
<v Speaker 2>I like to keep myself a little available right to

103
00:05:28.439 --> 00:05:32.240
<v Speaker 2>to to an extent within within reason, to the public.

104
00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.560
<v Speaker 2>So for anybody that that listens to this uh conversation

105
00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:37.519
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna have today and wants to reach out and

106
00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:41.319
<v Speaker 2>wants to have a few words on my website at

107
00:05:41.319 --> 00:05:44.240
<v Speaker 2>the bottom right hand corner, there's a little chat widget,

108
00:05:44.560 --> 00:05:47.839
<v Speaker 2>and whatever you write in there, please be nice, comes

109
00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:49.959
<v Speaker 2>straight to my personal inbox.

110
00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.319
<v Speaker 3>That'd be rough for me. It's it.

111
00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:55.160
<v Speaker 6>It's rough for me.

112
00:05:58.160 --> 00:05:58.800
<v Speaker 3>That's awesome.

113
00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:01.600
<v Speaker 4>So I guess if you don't mind, I mean, I

114
00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:04.240
<v Speaker 4>hate to just jump right into it, but uh, I

115
00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:06.600
<v Speaker 4>guess where did you find yourself out one day walking

116
00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:07.240
<v Speaker 4>down this path?

117
00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:09.800
<v Speaker 3>Like was there a moment in history that you still.

118
00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:12.199
<v Speaker 4>Remember or a thing that happened or whatever, like opened

119
00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:13.639
<v Speaker 4>up a book and they're like, oh my god, this

120
00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:14.000
<v Speaker 4>is it?

121
00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:16.959
<v Speaker 3>You know, was it a gradual thing?

122
00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:19.639
<v Speaker 6>Like you know, well, it's.

123
00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:22.199
<v Speaker 2>It's a story. It's definitely a story. And I've told

124
00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:24.399
<v Speaker 2>it a bunch of times. So anybody that's heard it, sorry,

125
00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:27.720
<v Speaker 2>bear with me. No, no, no, it's you know, for

126
00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:30.920
<v Speaker 2>your audience. I'd I'd love to tell it because it's

127
00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:35.240
<v Speaker 2>kind of interesting. I as a kid, I had I'd

128
00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:39.360
<v Speaker 2>always studied comparative religions. It was very interested and pulled

129
00:06:39.399 --> 00:06:45.439
<v Speaker 2>towards the mysterious, the newminous. I liked being in religious buildings,

130
00:06:45.639 --> 00:06:49.720
<v Speaker 2>temples and cathedrals and things that for some reason it

131
00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:54.319
<v Speaker 2>it scratched aniche that I I wasn't fully aware I had,

132
00:06:54.639 --> 00:06:57.439
<v Speaker 2>and as I got older, I began to study stuff.

133
00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:01.800
<v Speaker 2>But the thing is, I wasn't you know, I'm originally

134
00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:05.519
<v Speaker 2>from Long Island, New York, so it's you know, it's

135
00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:07.240
<v Speaker 2>one of those things we're growing up in the late

136
00:07:07.319 --> 00:07:11.519
<v Speaker 2>nineties and early two thousands in my neighborhood.

137
00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:15.160
<v Speaker 6>What was available to me was like Dan Brown, occultism.

138
00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:17.240
<v Speaker 6>You know, I didn't have.

139
00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.639
<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize that I had little esoteric pockets and

140
00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:25.759
<v Speaker 2>communities just yet when I was like, you know, seventeen eighteen.

141
00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:30.519
<v Speaker 2>So I studied at a very topical level Cabbala, freemasonry,

142
00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:33.160
<v Speaker 2>things of this nature, without being involved.

143
00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:34.399
<v Speaker 8>And then.

144
00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:37.800
<v Speaker 6>Things take a dramatic turn.

145
00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:41.319
<v Speaker 2>I was about nineteen years old and my aunt had

146
00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:45.079
<v Speaker 2>a tenant, very nice lady, very quiet, lady, kept to herself.

147
00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:46.319
<v Speaker 6>One day she threw herself in.

148
00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:50.879
<v Speaker 2>Front of a train, and my aunt goes down into

149
00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:56.560
<v Speaker 2>the apartment and she sees that this lady was a hoarder,

150
00:07:56.600 --> 00:07:57.480
<v Speaker 2>and she's got.

151
00:07:57.319 --> 00:07:59.759
<v Speaker 6>These books, stacks of books.

152
00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:01.079
<v Speaker 2>Like in the movie is Where You Got There's there's

153
00:08:01.120 --> 00:08:04.720
<v Speaker 2>like pathways and things, journals still wrapped in the cell

154
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:07.240
<v Speaker 2>of Phane. So she asked me, over right, I mean,

155
00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:09.639
<v Speaker 2>anybody that's interested in the occult, you know, heavy, the

156
00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:11.160
<v Speaker 2>deceptively heavy.

157
00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:12.439
<v Speaker 6>A box full of books can be.

158
00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:15.639
<v Speaker 2>So she invites me over to to help her, you know,

159
00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:19.000
<v Speaker 2>clear out the apartment. And I found this one book

160
00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:23.160
<v Speaker 2>and it's still on my Kabbala shelf over there, and

161
00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:26.759
<v Speaker 2>it was called The Oracle of Kabbala by Richard Sideman.

162
00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.920
<v Speaker 2>And it's a very thin book. And I know this

163
00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:32.279
<v Speaker 2>is weird, right, It's the dead lady's property. But do

164
00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:34.559
<v Speaker 2>you mind if I take this? And she says yeah, sure,

165
00:08:34.600 --> 00:08:38.399
<v Speaker 2>of course. So the next day I walk around my

166
00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:42.759
<v Speaker 2>neighborhood in Babylon and I read the whole thing because

167
00:08:42.759 --> 00:08:46.399
<v Speaker 2>it was very short. Now, when I was done reading it,

168
00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.000
<v Speaker 2>I wouldn't say that I was necessarily educated to a

169
00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:54.120
<v Speaker 2>greater depth or degree than I was before I read it.

170
00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:57.559
<v Speaker 2>But something in me struck a chord. It was like,

171
00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:02.519
<v Speaker 2>I know this is important. This is the untapped, the

172
00:09:02.679 --> 00:09:06.360
<v Speaker 2>unopened drawer. Really to get into this, to really get

173
00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:09.840
<v Speaker 2>into this, like, let's figure this out so.

174
00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:12.679
<v Speaker 6>When people use these things.

175
00:09:12.679 --> 00:09:14.879
<v Speaker 2>I went on the white pages or the yellow pages

176
00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:17.559
<v Speaker 2>on the internet and I typed in Long Island Kabbala

177
00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:21.399
<v Speaker 2>Study Group really guy's name and information came up.

178
00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:23.639
<v Speaker 6>Reached out to him. He got back to me.

179
00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:26.120
<v Speaker 2>He said that group doesn't meet anymore, but there's this

180
00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.840
<v Speaker 2>other thing. And the other thing was the Hermitic Order

181
00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:32.120
<v Speaker 2>of the Golden Dawn, and I didn't really.

182
00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:33.120
<v Speaker 6>Know what magic was.

183
00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:38.759
<v Speaker 2>I kind of stumbled into that door and it didn't

184
00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:40.639
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't like it was like, oh.

185
00:09:40.519 --> 00:09:41.519
<v Speaker 6>This beautiful path.

186
00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Immediately I was actually a no call, no show to

187
00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:48.440
<v Speaker 2>my first initiation, I totally flaked out because I was nervous.

188
00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:51.120
<v Speaker 2>I didn't really know, you know, what the hell what

189
00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:53.559
<v Speaker 2>am I doing here? These people think they're doing magic

190
00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:56.559
<v Speaker 2>like Harry Potter wand waving shit like this is crazy.

191
00:09:57.759 --> 00:09:59.759
<v Speaker 6>But several years.

192
00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:03.440
<v Speaker 2>Later, my life suffered like a total collapse, and something

193
00:10:03.440 --> 00:10:07.120
<v Speaker 2>in my gut, so I mean my entire body was burning,

194
00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:09.360
<v Speaker 2>telling me you got to go back to these folks.

195
00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:11.840
<v Speaker 2>And so I went hat in hand and I said, please,

196
00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:14.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, I'm really sorry, but I feel like I

197
00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:16.000
<v Speaker 2>have to do this, and they gave me another shot,

198
00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:18.759
<v Speaker 2>and now the rest is history. I'm a senior Adept

199
00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:20.720
<v Speaker 2>of the Hermitic Order of the Golden Dawn under the

200
00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:25.759
<v Speaker 2>Cicero lineage, and I am the imperator of the North

201
00:10:25.799 --> 00:10:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Carolina Temple that we run out of Asheville.

202
00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:32.600
<v Speaker 3>That's wild. The guy moved from Long Island to North Carolina,

203
00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:33.000
<v Speaker 3>just like me.

204
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:35.960
<v Speaker 4>Fucking bugged out. When I was talking him, I was

205
00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:37.360
<v Speaker 4>just like, wait, what's going on right now?

206
00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, it's one of those states that if you

207
00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.039
<v Speaker 2>move from a place like Long Island, it's not like

208
00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:46.840
<v Speaker 2>depending on where you go.

209
00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:48.559
<v Speaker 3>But I felt like I just moved to portion Road.

210
00:10:49.399 --> 00:10:50.159
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, exactly.

211
00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:53.879
<v Speaker 2>The suburbs down here are not not culture shock. They're

212
00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:57.919
<v Speaker 2>they're not Yeah, it's not like too crazy. Although my

213
00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.200
<v Speaker 2>fiance and I were living out in the country tree

214
00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:02.480
<v Speaker 2>for a while and we lived but we had like

215
00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:03.360
<v Speaker 2>amish neighbors.

216
00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:05.879
<v Speaker 3>Was wow, yeah, my cousin's got that.

217
00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:07.679
<v Speaker 4>He's like thirty minutes out of Rally, he's got like,

218
00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:09.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, his neighbors were like, you know, the real

219
00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:11.879
<v Speaker 4>country people. But yeah, by where I'm at, it almost

220
00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:13.639
<v Speaker 4>looks like kind of like three forty seven or something

221
00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:15.759
<v Speaker 4>like over my Stony Brook, like it's you know, still

222
00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:19.240
<v Speaker 4>it's still got shit going on. It's just that, you know, ridiculous.

223
00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:23.840
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, so all right, yeah, you know what's I

224
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.320
<v Speaker 4>think the first book I ever came across, and it

225
00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:28.480
<v Speaker 4>did pique my interest, and I think that's what actually

226
00:11:28.600 --> 00:11:31.320
<v Speaker 4>kind of made me start like talking to other people

227
00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:33.559
<v Speaker 4>in high school that were into magic or witchcraft.

228
00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:35.720
<v Speaker 3>It was a fucking necronomicon.

229
00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:40.320
<v Speaker 4>Actually, one of my friends had it, and uh, I

230
00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:42.080
<v Speaker 4>don't even know where the fuck he got it from,

231
00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:44.159
<v Speaker 4>but he had it and we started reading it and

232
00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:45.679
<v Speaker 4>like one day it was just like, oh, like I

233
00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:48.799
<v Speaker 4>think we're in his basement trying to do something out

234
00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:50.320
<v Speaker 4>of it, and you know, who the fuck knows what

235
00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:53.799
<v Speaker 4>we're doing back then. But that definitely did, uh, I

236
00:11:53.799 --> 00:11:56.320
<v Speaker 4>guess interest me and make me think it was you know,

237
00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:57.240
<v Speaker 4>possible or real.

238
00:11:57.279 --> 00:11:58.240
<v Speaker 3>Stuff like that was real.

239
00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:59.960
<v Speaker 4>So kind of like after that, I think I started

240
00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:04.519
<v Speaker 4>become intrigued by other stuff and eventually I got.

241
00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:09.240
<v Speaker 3>Into this stuff, I guess real. No, not not too fast.

242
00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:12.600
<v Speaker 4>But these books that you have, uh, would you like

243
00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:14.200
<v Speaker 4>to like at least you know, I would like to

244
00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:15.600
<v Speaker 4>give you a chance to kind of promote them. I

245
00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:17.320
<v Speaker 4>give people a little bit of an understanding of what

246
00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:18.960
<v Speaker 4>some of them are about, if you if you want to.

247
00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:21.559
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, we can talk about that.

248
00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:21.919
<v Speaker 1>Sure.

249
00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:24.440
<v Speaker 6>I did spend the last three years of my life

250
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:27.159
<v Speaker 6>putting them together. Yeah, I think it'd be worth it.

251
00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:28.639
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

252
00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:32.279
<v Speaker 2>My first book came out twenty twenty four, and that

253
00:12:32.360 --> 00:12:35.000
<v Speaker 2>was Under Tree, a Prima press or, a Masonic imprint

254
00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:36.200
<v Speaker 2>out of Phoenix, Arizona.

255
00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:36.720
<v Speaker 8>Uh.

256
00:12:36.919 --> 00:12:39.759
<v Speaker 2>You know the great Masonic astrologer Jamie Paul lamb Is,

257
00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:43.360
<v Speaker 2>who was actually a mentor to me. Oh, he's been

258
00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:47.919
<v Speaker 2>on here too, Yeah, Jamie's Jamie's like, Uh, that's my guy.

259
00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:51.639
<v Speaker 2>If there's if there's no Jamie, there's no Ike. I

260
00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:55.320
<v Speaker 2>tell people that all the time. But yeah, he said,

261
00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:59.600
<v Speaker 2>they published my first book. And they basically said, you know, hey,

262
00:12:59.720 --> 00:13:01.360
<v Speaker 2>would you well, you ever thought about writing a book?

263
00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:03.720
<v Speaker 2>And I said, I'm an a cultist, of course I have,

264
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.440
<v Speaker 2>But like, what hell am I going to say in

265
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.799
<v Speaker 2>a way that is, you know, how can I contribute

266
00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:14.039
<v Speaker 2>in a way that's as eloquent as you know, somebody else,

267
00:13:14.360 --> 00:13:16.360
<v Speaker 2>one of these great authors in our tradition.

268
00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:20.639
<v Speaker 6>But after a while, I was like, you know what,

269
00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.000
<v Speaker 6>I checked in.

270
00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.360
<v Speaker 2>I did some divination, I did some ritual and I'm like,

271
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:27.279
<v Speaker 2>this actually might be a really cool opportunity. Let's see

272
00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:30.159
<v Speaker 2>what happens. Let me allow myself to be guided. And

273
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:31.720
<v Speaker 2>so I said, what do you want me to write about?

274
00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:34.879
<v Speaker 2>And they said, you can write about literally anything. And

275
00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:37.240
<v Speaker 2>then I just kind of arrived at this conclusion that

276
00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:39.000
<v Speaker 2>if I if I can write about anything, I'm going

277
00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:43.840
<v Speaker 2>to write about everything. So a formuless fire is laid

278
00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:46.360
<v Speaker 2>out to give the history, theory, and practice of Western

279
00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:50.240
<v Speaker 2>esotericism from the as far back as we can go

280
00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:58.080
<v Speaker 2>in you know, Sumerian Mesopotamian cultures up until about you know,

281
00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:02.279
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen sixties with the Orem Solis and uh and

282
00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:06.919
<v Speaker 2>and the the Wick and Revival and things of this nature.

283
00:14:07.159 --> 00:14:09.440
<v Speaker 2>But I really really dial down into a lot of

284
00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:14.919
<v Speaker 2>different histories because I'll be frank, the person that I

285
00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:19.320
<v Speaker 2>had in mind reading this was a new Mason, Okay.

286
00:14:19.639 --> 00:14:23.639
<v Speaker 6>But the thing is, like that is a common trope

287
00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:24.519
<v Speaker 6>in occultism.

288
00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:28.120
<v Speaker 2>This new Mason kind of wanders in and he's you know,

289
00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.440
<v Speaker 2>starry eyed, and he's he's got a lot of enthusiasm

290
00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:32.559
<v Speaker 2>and and you.

291
00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:33.240
<v Speaker 6>Know, very green.

292
00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:35.559
<v Speaker 2>Doesn't matter how old you are, you know, but many

293
00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:37.480
<v Speaker 2>of us come in and we're just like, oh, this

294
00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:40.639
<v Speaker 2>is a new world. And then you eventually go down

295
00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:44.600
<v Speaker 2>these these roads. You get shoulder taps to participate in Martinism,

296
00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:47.159
<v Speaker 2>or one of the appendant bodies or one of the

297
00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:51.039
<v Speaker 2>Rosy Crucian bodies, and you start discovering, oh, all these names,

298
00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Ruis Kellner, Westcott Mathers, and you see all these Masons,

299
00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:03.799
<v Speaker 2>all of them were Mason. These people who created you know,

300
00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:09.600
<v Speaker 2>the Oto, the original Oto, Carl Kellner and Theodore's the

301
00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Golden Dawn, the Societist Rosie Cruciana in Anglia, these guys

302
00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:14.960
<v Speaker 2>were all Masons.

303
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:17.960
<v Speaker 6>They were very esoteric. So the thing is, now.

304
00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:23.600
<v Speaker 2>All this stuff is is seeing a mainstream kind of

305
00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:28.799
<v Speaker 2>uh appearance and somewhat of a support. So so now

306
00:15:28.840 --> 00:15:32.600
<v Speaker 2>it's like it's not just not just Masons, but it's

307
00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:35.759
<v Speaker 2>like like like early Masons, Masons early in their career.

308
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:39.200
<v Speaker 2>It's like almost anybody can come to this stuff and

309
00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:42.320
<v Speaker 2>be looking around like almost overwhelmed.

310
00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:43.360
<v Speaker 5>What is this?

311
00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:45.879
<v Speaker 2>How do I get involved? How do I keep my

312
00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:51.039
<v Speaker 2>my my footing sure? And so that's that's who I

313
00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:53.720
<v Speaker 2>wrote the book for. So I give you really a

314
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:58.840
<v Speaker 2>very thorough contextualization of the entirety of the tradition to

315
00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:07.120
<v Speaker 2>the best of my ability. So that goes through Platonism, Neoplatonism, Hermetism, Hermeticism, gnosticism,

316
00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:11.320
<v Speaker 2>and all the way up into the occult revival and

317
00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.519
<v Speaker 2>things of this nature. I go into Martinism Elu Cohen

318
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.159
<v Speaker 2>as much as I could fit. I got a couple

319
00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:23.279
<v Speaker 2>of I got some pushback from the Barden people. They

320
00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:26.200
<v Speaker 2>were like, oh, you should have written more about him.

321
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:28.879
<v Speaker 2>At that point it gets it turns into a slippery slope.

322
00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:30.919
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the book's like almost five hundred pages as

323
00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:34.120
<v Speaker 2>it is, but yeah, and then at the end there

324
00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:39.919
<v Speaker 2>are I think eight or nine appendices with practical instructions

325
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:44.919
<v Speaker 2>for everything from preparation of an alchemical or spagiric preparation

326
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:52.080
<v Speaker 2>to the consecration of salt and water to middle pillar

327
00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:55.919
<v Speaker 2>exercise and the lesser ritual of the Pentagram with my commentary.

328
00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:02.480
<v Speaker 2>So it was quite an intense work, and Jamie edited

329
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:05.319
<v Speaker 2>it and so did Jake Treyer, and we.

330
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.799
<v Speaker 6>Put it out and it was immediately critically received.

331
00:17:09.880 --> 00:17:10.359
<v Speaker 3>Well, so.

332
00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:13.359
<v Speaker 6>There's that that's still available.

333
00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:20.279
<v Speaker 2>And then E Theoric Magic I released with Lluellen Luellen Worldwide,

334
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:22.039
<v Speaker 2>that came out this year.

335
00:17:21.960 --> 00:17:23.319
<v Speaker 6>In April, and.

336
00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that also has a kind of a funny story.

337
00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:30.960
<v Speaker 2>I was at the Sacred Space between the World Conference

338
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:34.839
<v Speaker 2>I think in twenty twenty four, twenty three EVO Domingas

339
00:17:34.880 --> 00:17:36.680
<v Speaker 2>had invited me to go up there, like kind of

340
00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:37.319
<v Speaker 2>last minute.

341
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:38.319
<v Speaker 6>I had take off work.

342
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.240
<v Speaker 2>We're going to set Carpenter at the time, and I

343
00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:45.920
<v Speaker 2>drove up to Maryland and I didn't really look at

344
00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:48.519
<v Speaker 2>the schedule. I just had like three four days to

345
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:53.279
<v Speaker 2>get this whole trip together. I get up there for

346
00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:55.640
<v Speaker 2>the morning of the second day and I look at

347
00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:57.400
<v Speaker 2>the schedule. This is the first time I've laid eyes

348
00:17:57.440 --> 00:17:59.640
<v Speaker 2>on the schedule and it's right there, like eight o'clock

349
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:01.799
<v Speaker 2>in the morn you got five minutes in a room

350
00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:04.240
<v Speaker 2>with a Lleuellen editor to pitch them a book.

351
00:18:04.880 --> 00:18:07.480
<v Speaker 6>And I was like, yeah, I'll do this.

352
00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:09.880
<v Speaker 2>I didn't even know you could do this shit at conferences,

353
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:11.960
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, let's give an issh just so I get

354
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.559
<v Speaker 2>I get online and the line is dwindling. You know,

355
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:17.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting closer to going in and I realize like,

356
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:21.319
<v Speaker 2>oh shit, I don't have a book. I just kind

357
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.839
<v Speaker 2>of hopped online in my excitement and I didn't like

358
00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:27.200
<v Speaker 2>think about what I was going to pitch.

359
00:18:28.039 --> 00:18:28.160
<v Speaker 8>Uh.

360
00:18:29.559 --> 00:18:32.720
<v Speaker 2>This is the kind of overconfidence I sometimes can have

361
00:18:32.960 --> 00:18:36.640
<v Speaker 2>that my fiance will tell you all about. Just I'm

362
00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:40.200
<v Speaker 2>the guy in the pool fully clothed while everybody else

363
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:42.279
<v Speaker 2>is getting their swimming trunks on.

364
00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:43.119
<v Speaker 3>I just dive in.

365
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:48.559
<v Speaker 2>But it almost immediately dropped into my head. It's like, listen, dummy,

366
00:18:48.799 --> 00:18:50.440
<v Speaker 2>what about the stuff you've been doing for the last

367
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:55.480
<v Speaker 2>ten fifteen years. Right, You've been a practitioner in the

368
00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:58.960
<v Speaker 2>system of Western ceremonial magic, and you've also been a

369
00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:04.079
<v Speaker 2>practitioner right studying and practicing Chinese medicine, body work. They

370
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:06.519
<v Speaker 2>make you take elective. That's how I got into chigung.

371
00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I had to take chigung classes. I went to school

372
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:09.960
<v Speaker 2>up in.

373
00:19:12.200 --> 00:19:13.039
<v Speaker 6>Sciacid at the.

374
00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.640
<v Speaker 2>New York College of Health Professions, and I got my

375
00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:18.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, my massage therapy degree. I went to school

376
00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:23.000
<v Speaker 2>also in Stonybrook, very shortly for physical therapy. But really,

377
00:19:23.319 --> 00:19:26.599
<v Speaker 2>my love, there was truly an acupunctured Chinese medicine.

378
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:28.599
<v Speaker 6>And with that came all the energy work.

379
00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:31.759
<v Speaker 2>And I realized at a certain point, these are two

380
00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:34.839
<v Speaker 2>things that need each other, you know, they are two

381
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:37.640
<v Speaker 2>sides of one coin. And in the West we don't

382
00:19:37.799 --> 00:19:43.480
<v Speaker 2>have as sophisticated a vernacular and a framework and a

383
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:48.119
<v Speaker 2>system for working with the energy that ultimately empowers your magic.

384
00:19:49.039 --> 00:19:52.119
<v Speaker 6>So I was like, yeah, talk to her about that.

385
00:19:52.359 --> 00:19:54.720
<v Speaker 2>So I talked for five minutes, told her about this

386
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:58.920
<v Speaker 2>book idea. My editor said, sounds good. Send me your

387
00:19:58.960 --> 00:20:02.519
<v Speaker 2>introduction and a chapter sample. I was like okay, and

388
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:04.799
<v Speaker 2>I went to the I went to the dining room

389
00:20:04.839 --> 00:20:08.160
<v Speaker 2>and the conference hotel. I wrote everything there and sent

390
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:11.000
<v Speaker 2>it to her, and yeah, that book has done. It's

391
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.480
<v Speaker 2>done really well. It's being translated into into other languages.

392
00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.079
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna do uh nice, Yeah, we're gonna We're gonna

393
00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:18.400
<v Speaker 2>do a follow up too eventually.

394
00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:23.200
<v Speaker 3>That is awesome. Uhboy, when I ask anything, Gin, you

395
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:23.720
<v Speaker 3>want to ask.

396
00:20:23.559 --> 00:20:25.440
<v Speaker 1>Anything, Yes, I do.

397
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:28.200
<v Speaker 7>I've been waiting. Thanks Snaki obviously read my mind on

398
00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:32.119
<v Speaker 7>the eighth wave. I this is tangent gentile to what

399
00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.519
<v Speaker 7>you were saying, but I think it actually fits in

400
00:20:34.599 --> 00:20:38.160
<v Speaker 7>perfectly with the theme of books. So on your episode

401
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.440
<v Speaker 7>on his show, recent episode with Greg as well as

402
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:42.880
<v Speaker 7>with Jamie, who's probably the.

403
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:46.359
<v Speaker 1>Best cabalist I've ever met, probably.

404
00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:48.640
<v Speaker 7>And I always thought of myself as quite good, as

405
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:52.319
<v Speaker 7>Matt and Joshua both know, And it was a little

406
00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:55.119
<v Speaker 7>bit of a shock, but I humbled myself beforehim.

407
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:56.640
<v Speaker 3>No, I didn't even know what to say to the guy.

408
00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:56.960
<v Speaker 5>I was.

409
00:20:59.319 --> 00:20:59.960
<v Speaker 3>Kind of blew my mind.

410
00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:02.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I totally agree.

411
00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:05.960
<v Speaker 7>Jamie's extremely impressive and it comes up often on the

412
00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:10.079
<v Speaker 7>show because of his like innovative way. He's pretty much

413
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:15.279
<v Speaker 7>redefined that astrogoetic the works that he outlines me, no

414
00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:17.960
<v Speaker 7>one else is even comes close to what that is.

415
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:21.119
<v Speaker 7>And so that was a big honor to speak with

416
00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:25.000
<v Speaker 7>him some. Thanks again, Nick, But you've talked about the

417
00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:28.640
<v Speaker 7>importance of kabala as kind of a backdrop of the

418
00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:31.640
<v Speaker 7>working reality. And this is something that we talk about

419
00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:34.079
<v Speaker 7>in the Gray Lodge with Matt and the branch Joshua

420
00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:37.000
<v Speaker 7>all the time. Matt calls it pop kabala. I call

421
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:39.559
<v Speaker 7>it speculative kabala. I know that's not quite the same,

422
00:21:39.640 --> 00:21:42.839
<v Speaker 7>but there's an overlap that where we both understand each other.

423
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:45.960
<v Speaker 7>And I just want to if you have a few

424
00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:48.759
<v Speaker 7>words on that, just simply because it's something that like

425
00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:53.000
<v Speaker 7>we've done a whole kabala series on this show, and

426
00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:55.599
<v Speaker 7>Nick and I obviously became friends because of it sort of,

427
00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:00.960
<v Speaker 7>and you know, so I think it is under appreciated

428
00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:06.480
<v Speaker 7>and under sort of articulated way to map both map

429
00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:13.680
<v Speaker 7>Western esotericism, but maybe also map more universal primordial maybe

430
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:17.160
<v Speaker 7>if we want to be a little Evolian or because

431
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.359
<v Speaker 7>I'm not a perennialist, I'm really more of an ax list.

432
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.920
<v Speaker 7>But I just think that that's an interesting kind of framework,

433
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:24.039
<v Speaker 7>like you can map both things onto the tree and

434
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:26.319
<v Speaker 7>then you can also understand things through the tree.

435
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:28.880
<v Speaker 1>So I just wanted to hear your thoughts on it.

436
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:31.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I know that's a quite I've got.

437
00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:32.400
<v Speaker 6>A lot of thoughts on that.

438
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:36.920
<v Speaker 2>I just finished teaching a course over We did six

439
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.839
<v Speaker 2>sessions called Hermetic Kabbala for practitioners and initiates, and I

440
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:44.119
<v Speaker 2>was very successful. We went We're very very deep. We

441
00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.039
<v Speaker 2>did a really really thorough deep dive. Now, the thing

442
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.720
<v Speaker 2>is this, You've got different categories of kabbala, right, which

443
00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.480
<v Speaker 2>is sometimes a reduction and an oversimplification, but look, it works.

444
00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:58.960
<v Speaker 2>People get on me, They get on my ass about

445
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:01.880
<v Speaker 2>the same thing I say, East tradition, Western tradition. We

446
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.279
<v Speaker 2>understand it's part of a whole. But if you want

447
00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:06.799
<v Speaker 2>to be a really good mechanic, you can't call everything

448
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.279
<v Speaker 2>under the hood. Car Like, we need to be able

449
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:13.559
<v Speaker 2>to talk about this stuff and express distinctions so that

450
00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:15.960
<v Speaker 2>we can compare and contrast. And so her Medic Kabala

451
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:20.880
<v Speaker 2>is quite different than Hebrew kabbala or ultimately derivative more

452
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:26.839
<v Speaker 2>so from Christian kabbala, right, because this is who the

453
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:31.400
<v Speaker 2>really the creators of What we understand is that her medicabala.

454
00:23:31.440 --> 00:23:35.160
<v Speaker 2>They were reading Noir von Rosenwrath, they were reading Althanasius Kursher,

455
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:39.000
<v Speaker 2>they were reading Joannis roy Klin, and so they were

456
00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:42.960
<v Speaker 2>also reading the Seffayette Seira, but very very small book,

457
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:49.720
<v Speaker 2>and it's it's that is much more Hellenistic than.

458
00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:54.839
<v Speaker 6>Some of the other like say the Zohar, so her

459
00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:58.359
<v Speaker 6>medicabala is something that is is where you it has

460
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:00.799
<v Speaker 6>been abstracted. Right.

461
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:04.519
<v Speaker 2>People say, oh, kabbala is Hebrew mysticism. I don't think

462
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:09.599
<v Speaker 2>that's accurate. I would say kabbala is a system of

463
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:16.759
<v Speaker 2>esoteric exegesis interpretation. They're taking this framework and they rabbis

464
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:21.240
<v Speaker 2>are applying it to their scripture nowhere else, and they're

465
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:24.279
<v Speaker 2>interpreting their scripture. Now the Christians come, they get it

466
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:28.319
<v Speaker 2>really through Pico della Mirandola, and they start they start

467
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:34.000
<v Speaker 2>drilling into Hebrew and Christian scriptures. The Hermetic caabaalist takes

468
00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:36.799
<v Speaker 2>it out of scripture and say, okay, we can apply

469
00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:40.160
<v Speaker 2>this to this, to that, to tarot cards, to everything,

470
00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:44.400
<v Speaker 2>and so it becomes this great filing cabinet that really

471
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:46.960
<v Speaker 2>eventuates in the system of the Golden Dawn.

472
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.000
<v Speaker 6>That codification seven.

473
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Seven seven that Crowley put out was actually a Golden

474
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:59.039
<v Speaker 2>Dawn pamphlet that he took and published. But they had

475
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.200
<v Speaker 2>done many of those initiates had done that work to

476
00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:05.079
<v Speaker 2>to sort of make these correspondences, and it goes back

477
00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:09.200
<v Speaker 2>even to the sort of the French systems of esoteric

478
00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:13.319
<v Speaker 2>masonry like Martinism and the Yelu Cohen, and not so

479
00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:15.640
<v Speaker 2>much Martinism, but I would say more than the Yellu

480
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Cohen and things of that nature, stuff that has this

481
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:24.839
<v Speaker 2>quasi chivalric Masonic thing that were toying with the Kabbala

482
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:28.680
<v Speaker 2>in the eighteenth century and started coming up with these ideas.

483
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:32.759
<v Speaker 2>But really it reaches its perfection into how we understand

484
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:35.400
<v Speaker 2>it today through the Golden Dawn, and then it seeds right.

485
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:39.119
<v Speaker 2>Regordi takes it, the Unfortune takes it, Crowley takes it,

486
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:43.000
<v Speaker 2>Franz Barden takes it, very similar system to the Golden Dawn,

487
00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:47.359
<v Speaker 2>and they proliferate it and so that you've got a

488
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:51.000
<v Speaker 2>lot of the tradition through that swath, and so that

489
00:25:51.160 --> 00:25:54.400
<v Speaker 2>the key is to bring bring the pieces back together.

490
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:57.559
<v Speaker 2>But there's if you can understand the Kabbala as a

491
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:01.559
<v Speaker 2>system of correspondences through the gold and Dawn, you can

492
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:04.920
<v Speaker 2>understand any kind of Kabbala because it is it's the

493
00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:07.119
<v Speaker 2>most i would say, rigorous, inclusive.

494
00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:08.640
<v Speaker 6>At the end of the day, it's a framework.

495
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:09.119
<v Speaker 3>Yep.

496
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:12.039
<v Speaker 6>The biggest thing that I tell people is you come

497
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:15.480
<v Speaker 6>to this stuff and if you're too rigid, because at

498
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:17.519
<v Speaker 6>a certain stage in the Golden dawn work right, you

499
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:21.359
<v Speaker 6>drill down you all this rote memorization of what correspondences

500
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:24.000
<v Speaker 6>go where, and then that all gets turned on its

501
00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:27.119
<v Speaker 6>head and everything gets put upside down and over here

502
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:27.599
<v Speaker 6>and over there.

503
00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:31.759
<v Speaker 2>It's like, well, that's this left brained kind of approach

504
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:35.200
<v Speaker 2>to information that modern people have that doesn't work with magic.

505
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:38.599
<v Speaker 2>Everything has to be you have to prepare for this

506
00:26:38.680 --> 00:26:42.440
<v Speaker 2>stuff to permutate, be used here, be used there. It's

507
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:48.079
<v Speaker 2>useful to ingrain that system of correspondence is memorize the tree,

508
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:49.640
<v Speaker 2>work with the tree. But at the end of the day,

509
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:52.079
<v Speaker 2>you've got to be willing to give up what you

510
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:55.839
<v Speaker 2>think you know about it because it's a framework, it's

511
00:26:55.880 --> 00:27:00.200
<v Speaker 2>a scaffolding. It's a scaffolding. The Kabbala itself is not

512
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:04.200
<v Speaker 2>capital t truth. If anything, what you will experience through

513
00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:10.599
<v Speaker 2>it is much more of an essentially true nature, particularly

514
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:11.960
<v Speaker 2>in your experience.

515
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:15.480
<v Speaker 6>So that's the whole key. You know, we don't want

516
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:16.480
<v Speaker 6>to over intellectually.

517
00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:18.839
<v Speaker 2>I say this with hundreds of books surrounding me, but

518
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:22.359
<v Speaker 2>you really don't want to over intellectualized magic. You want

519
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:24.799
<v Speaker 2>to have a really, really firm understanding of what you're

520
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:29.000
<v Speaker 2>doing for context and for safety, yes, safety, But at

521
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:31.759
<v Speaker 2>the end of the day, you can't think your way

522
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:34.079
<v Speaker 2>into a transcendent state.

523
00:27:34.559 --> 00:27:39.079
<v Speaker 6>You know, it's just not going to happen. So and

524
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:39.680
<v Speaker 6>then the the.

525
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:43.839
<v Speaker 2>Last thing I want to say about the Kabala is

526
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:47.440
<v Speaker 2>that you have to understand where it comes from. The Kabbala,

527
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:51.839
<v Speaker 2>the hermetic Kabala given you know as the lineal diagram,

528
00:27:51.920 --> 00:27:54.640
<v Speaker 2>the vertical diagram of the tree of life, ten sphere

529
00:27:54.640 --> 00:27:57.200
<v Speaker 2>oft the twenty two nety vault, the paths, and then

530
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:00.000
<v Speaker 2>you get to three, the the veils of negative exists

531
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:03.559
<v Speaker 2>since the four or really five worlds and the letters

532
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:06.559
<v Speaker 2>of the Hebrew alphabet with the tarot correspondence is that's it.

533
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:08.200
<v Speaker 6>That's the symbol system right there.

534
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:16.559
<v Speaker 2>But it ultimately comes from a Hellenistic background. All of

535
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:20.200
<v Speaker 2>this stuff actually has more to do with the Greco

536
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:27.319
<v Speaker 2>Egyptian innovations that carried over this Pythagorean tradition, right Gematria.

537
00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:32.680
<v Speaker 2>In ancient Greece, this was called Isobseephi, right, yes, right.

538
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:35.440
<v Speaker 2>The cephi were the little counting stones.

539
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:36.519
<v Speaker 6>They didn't have.

540
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:40.039
<v Speaker 2>They didn't use numerals like we use Arabic numerals, and

541
00:28:40.160 --> 00:28:42.720
<v Speaker 2>we've abstracted it. The Greeks were counting with stones and

542
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:45.920
<v Speaker 2>seeing what shapes do these numbers make. That's where you

543
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:49.640
<v Speaker 2>get this concept of triangular numbers, square numbers, oblong numbers.

544
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:54.519
<v Speaker 2>It's because they were arranging pebbles. So isopsephos means equal pebble.

545
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:57.559
<v Speaker 2>So you add up the numerical value of this word,

546
00:28:57.599 --> 00:28:59.799
<v Speaker 2>it's got this many pebbles, and this one over here,

547
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:01.240
<v Speaker 2>this word has the same amount of pebbles.

548
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:02.160
<v Speaker 6>They're related.

549
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:07.880
<v Speaker 2>The word Goematria comes from the Greek hel matria geometry.

550
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:14.119
<v Speaker 2>So the Kabbala almost in its entirety, is Hellenistic.

551
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.680
<v Speaker 6>But here's the issue. We don't have the Hellenistic tradition.

552
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:23.200
<v Speaker 6>We have the philosophy, we don't have the practice. So myself,

553
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:28.160
<v Speaker 6>being a Hellenistic Theurgic reconstructionist the best of my ability,

554
00:29:28.640 --> 00:29:31.440
<v Speaker 6>I just got back from a nine day excursion in

555
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:34.079
<v Speaker 6>Upper and Lower Egypt with a group of about twenty people.

556
00:29:34.640 --> 00:29:38.000
<v Speaker 6>I reconstructed Theurgic rituals. We were on site.

557
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:43.440
<v Speaker 2>We had private access to the Osirion, to the Sekhmet

558
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:49.119
<v Speaker 2>sanctuary to Dendara. I taught astrological magic on the roof

559
00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:52.640
<v Speaker 2>of the temple to hatorat Dendra, so we were doing

560
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.720
<v Speaker 2>all this Theurgic Hellenistic stuff. It was absolutely incredible. But

561
00:29:56.799 --> 00:29:59.759
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the day, the Kabbala is the

562
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:05.440
<v Speaker 2>better system practically because it's full, we have it. It's

563
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:09.200
<v Speaker 2>a living system, it's a living tradition. Is extremely difficult

564
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.119
<v Speaker 2>to have a framework that works with the Western modern

565
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:19.039
<v Speaker 2>mind that is as effective and is as beautiful as

566
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:20.519
<v Speaker 2>the Hermetic Cabala.

567
00:30:20.599 --> 00:30:23.160
<v Speaker 6>So that's why I still use it.

568
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:27.319
<v Speaker 3>Is an answer, jan.

569
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:30.240
<v Speaker 1>I think it was a great answer.

570
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:34.559
<v Speaker 7>I only differ with Ike on a small detail, is

571
00:30:34.640 --> 00:30:37.440
<v Speaker 7>that I like, maybe this is untrue, maybe this is

572
00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:40.640
<v Speaker 7>just a speculative idea. I always pausit the origin of

573
00:30:40.720 --> 00:30:44.480
<v Speaker 7>the tree, or at least maybe it's reintroduction into the

574
00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:48.279
<v Speaker 7>kind of Central Asian landscape in the first and second

575
00:30:49.160 --> 00:30:53.039
<v Speaker 7>century b eighty in the exile period from Babylon. And

576
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:55.839
<v Speaker 7>I think if you look at what the Zoroastrians. I'm

577
00:30:55.880 --> 00:30:57.519
<v Speaker 7>sure you're very familiar with the Sike, but if you

578
00:30:57.559 --> 00:30:59.599
<v Speaker 7>look at what the Zoroastrians are doing in this emergence

579
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.319
<v Speaker 7>of the filosophy of religion and how they were applying

580
00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:04.279
<v Speaker 7>qualities to God.

581
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:06.680
<v Speaker 1>I think it's very similar in some ways to.

582
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.839
<v Speaker 7>Like how Ramic was thinking about Kabbala much later on,

583
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:14.799
<v Speaker 7>and like where they were sort of congregating. I always

584
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:16.960
<v Speaker 7>talk about this as like Lake Baikal, and you have

585
00:31:17.480 --> 00:31:20.759
<v Speaker 7>sort of the Buddhist hermitages contract Buddhists, you have the

586
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:25.200
<v Speaker 7>Kabalistic hermitages, you have the Tanngriest hermitages, all existing in

587
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:28.720
<v Speaker 7>this period of like the thirteenth to sixteenth century, and

588
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:30.920
<v Speaker 7>they're all together. And I'm not saying that they were

589
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:34.599
<v Speaker 7>speaking to each other, but obviously, as you're saying, they

590
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:38.160
<v Speaker 7>are speaking a language that is parallel that can be

591
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:42.279
<v Speaker 7>mapped to the tree, that can be understood as expressions

592
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:46.640
<v Speaker 7>of it, or maybe expressions that then can be discerned

593
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.440
<v Speaker 7>and categorized epistemically into the Saphra.

594
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:54.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and that's why ultimately the tree is the better example,

595
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:58.119
<v Speaker 2>particularly because it's got the paths, whereas in the Hellenistic

596
00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:02.960
<v Speaker 2>version you have the ten, but they're nested, right, they

597
00:32:03.079 --> 00:32:05.960
<v Speaker 2>become the the the ogdoad or what we call later

598
00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:09.200
<v Speaker 2>on the the anima mundi or the Thetolemaic model of

599
00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:11.880
<v Speaker 2>the universe, so they're nested, whereas the tree of life

600
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:16.079
<v Speaker 2>extracts them into this vertical kind of hierarchy or analogy,

601
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:19.319
<v Speaker 2>and then it's the paths show these relationships. But I

602
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:24.640
<v Speaker 2>would say that first of all, there's this idea of

603
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:30.039
<v Speaker 2>Hellenic orientalism, which is very very apropos if you. But

604
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:33.480
<v Speaker 2>but to drill back to to my further point of

605
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:35.039
<v Speaker 2>why I think it had much more to do with

606
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:40.160
<v Speaker 2>the the Neo Pythagorean system is specifically this there are well,

607
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:44.160
<v Speaker 2>there's a couple of reasons. There are modern words in

608
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:49.000
<v Speaker 2>the in use in kabalistic circles today Hebrew Hebrew Cabalistic

609
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:52.880
<v Speaker 2>that Hassi them still use Greek words to discuss like

610
00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:57.640
<v Speaker 2>hayuli highly matter. You know David Kyams Smith who is

611
00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:01.559
<v Speaker 2>Micabala teach here where one of them. He's expressed this

612
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.319
<v Speaker 2>to me. He's like, you will find Greek stuff littered

613
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:08.519
<v Speaker 2>throughout their tradition. They even call him a heretic, which

614
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:13.119
<v Speaker 2>is the word apocauros. Apocauros is a corruption of the

615
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Greek word epicurus, like the philosopher, the hedonist, the materialists,

616
00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:22.319
<v Speaker 2>they considered him. You know, a heretic in the philosophical tradition.

617
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:24.400
<v Speaker 2>So there's a lot there. But more to the point,

618
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:29.200
<v Speaker 2>when you look at the numerical relationships, particularly the Shira,

619
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:34.799
<v Speaker 2>it's the Tatractees, it's the Pythagorean toa Tractees. The principles

620
00:33:34.839 --> 00:33:40.079
<v Speaker 2>still remain the same, it's just arranged differently and really

621
00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:45.279
<v Speaker 2>get you get around the first and second centuries of

622
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:49.960
<v Speaker 2>the Common Era, the population of Alexandria, Egypt was between

623
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:53.960
<v Speaker 2>thirty five and forty percent Jewish. So this this period

624
00:33:54.079 --> 00:33:57.440
<v Speaker 2>is called the period of Hellenized Judaism. You get the

625
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:01.359
<v Speaker 2>septuagen translation of the Hebrew Holy Books, you get the

626
00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:05.519
<v Speaker 2>Merkaba tradition, which was Hebrew theorgy, you get the Hekka Lote,

627
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:09.280
<v Speaker 2>you know the palaces which are organized according to the

628
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:16.840
<v Speaker 2>this this nested system of cosmology, the same thing. And yeah,

629
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:19.920
<v Speaker 2>so you get all of that in this really interesting time.

630
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.440
<v Speaker 2>But to bring it back to your point, Pythagoras was

631
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:29.199
<v Speaker 2>from Samos. Okay, Samos is extremely close to Anatolia. He

632
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:32.000
<v Speaker 2>would have been more familiar with the Lydians than he

633
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:35.599
<v Speaker 2>would have with with Athenians or you know, people on

634
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:40.280
<v Speaker 2>mainland Greece. So one of the ways that this is

635
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:44.840
<v Speaker 2>represented is that Pythagoras's philosophy was East was influenced by

636
00:34:44.920 --> 00:34:47.360
<v Speaker 2>this sort of like, I guess what we're calling the

637
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:50.480
<v Speaker 2>greater West now, you know, we don't want to necessarily

638
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:54.119
<v Speaker 2>break off the quote unquote Middle East. A lot of

639
00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:57.639
<v Speaker 2>scholars are saying, well, they contributed to the history of

640
00:34:58.119 --> 00:35:00.679
<v Speaker 2>ideas in the West, so it's the greater West. But

641
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:05.880
<v Speaker 2>either way, one of the ways that they represented the

642
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:10.760
<v Speaker 2>origin for Pythagoras's knowledge is to represent him as wearing pants.

643
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Very interesting thing they say that he wore pants. That's

644
00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:19.920
<v Speaker 2>not Greek dress. Greek dress is Tunic hymation. They didn't

645
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:23.360
<v Speaker 2>wear pain would have looked and seemed ridiculous. And also

646
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:28.840
<v Speaker 2>some of the more popular depictions of Pythagoras in terms

647
00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:32.159
<v Speaker 2>of statuary have him with a turbine on as well.

648
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:35.360
<v Speaker 2>So this again, this stuff is all kind of from

649
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:38.639
<v Speaker 2>all over the place. But the evolution is very very

650
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:43.559
<v Speaker 2>interesting to watch. And I do think because of some

651
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:46.519
<v Speaker 2>of the things you're saying, these qualities of God and

652
00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:49.320
<v Speaker 2>this this verbiage that tracks onto the tree, I think

653
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:53.599
<v Speaker 2>that that is why the tree is still or not

654
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:56.400
<v Speaker 2>just the tree, but the hermetic cabalistic system is still

655
00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:58.480
<v Speaker 2>the best practical framework for magic.

656
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:01.159
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much.

657
00:36:01.199 --> 00:36:03.239
<v Speaker 7>I I just want to say that the David Haym

658
00:36:03.320 --> 00:36:06.519
<v Speaker 7>Smith book The Blazing Dew of Stars is probably my

659
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:08.400
<v Speaker 7>favorite personal favorite.

660
00:36:08.079 --> 00:36:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Kabbalistic texts, So I just want to shout that out.

661
00:36:11.960 --> 00:36:12.639
<v Speaker 6>David will like that.

662
00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:17.440
<v Speaker 4>One thing you did mention before, and I know me

663
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:21.119
<v Speaker 4>and JUNI are both big fans of Pico. I think

664
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:23.280
<v Speaker 4>that was actually a very pivotal point too, like like

665
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.159
<v Speaker 4>what you're mentioning before, because I feel like when he

666
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:27.960
<v Speaker 4>did that, I feel like it just opened up the

667
00:36:28.039 --> 00:36:30.800
<v Speaker 4>doors for many different types of people looking at the

668
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.840
<v Speaker 4>kabbala differently, Christians, Catholics, occultists, you know.

669
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:35.440
<v Speaker 3>And I feel like.

670
00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:37.639
<v Speaker 4>Once they did that, like if you're kind of just

671
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:39.159
<v Speaker 4>for me, it looks like it was on and popping

672
00:36:39.199 --> 00:36:43.320
<v Speaker 4>after he brought that stuffing. One thing I did want

673
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:46.760
<v Speaker 4>to ask from your opinion, and it's something I've kind

674
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:49.840
<v Speaker 4>of had other people talk about slightly here and we

675
00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:51.199
<v Speaker 4>don't have to get too in depth for this, but

676
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:56.199
<v Speaker 4>in your opinion, do you see well, we'll put it

677
00:36:56.280 --> 00:37:01.000
<v Speaker 4>this way. In my opinion, I think that Christianity, it

678
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:04.079
<v Speaker 4>was actually highly influenced by a lot of Neoplatonists and

679
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:07.360
<v Speaker 4>people that were actually kind of considered occultist in a sense.

680
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:11.760
<v Speaker 3>Would you see that as kind of being possible.

681
00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:16.800
<v Speaker 6>Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, this stuff wasn't a cult.

682
00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:21.280
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't esoteric until it was until the Enlightenment had

683
00:37:21.320 --> 00:37:23.079
<v Speaker 2>its way with us, you know, I mean they were.

684
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:29.840
<v Speaker 2>There's so there's a tradition, i'd say, in the earliest

685
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:36.280
<v Speaker 2>eras of Christianity, right when we're calling it Christianities, right,

686
00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:38.719
<v Speaker 2>this is a similar idea today. There's many sects and

687
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:42.159
<v Speaker 2>divisions in Christianity, but early on it was a group

688
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:48.440
<v Speaker 2>of what they call eCos which like ecosystem in Greek,

689
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:51.039
<v Speaker 2>that's how you say a house. There were house churches,

690
00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:54.880
<v Speaker 2>people meeting in houses, little little, tiny, tiny communities. That's

691
00:37:54.920 --> 00:38:03.119
<v Speaker 2>who Paul was writing to. And at that stage, right first, second,

692
00:38:03.280 --> 00:38:12.440
<v Speaker 2>third centuries, you get a very very specific Platonic and

693
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Neoplatonic influence in the theology. In particular, let's not forget

694
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:22.000
<v Speaker 2>that the New Testament was written in Greek, which somehow

695
00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:26.119
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people still don't know that. But again

696
00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:29.480
<v Speaker 2>it's it is very Hellenized in that it utilized the

697
00:38:29.559 --> 00:38:33.440
<v Speaker 2>specific Greek philosophical or metaphysical terms like logos. Right in

698
00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:37.199
<v Speaker 2>the Joanine prologue one John in the beginning was the word.

699
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.599
<v Speaker 2>The word used there is logos, and logos means so

700
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:44.519
<v Speaker 2>much more than just word. It means order, it means pattern,

701
00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:49.760
<v Speaker 2>it means you know, paradigm, archetype of the system. It's

702
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:53.159
<v Speaker 2>not just saying the word. And this is why God

703
00:38:53.360 --> 00:38:56.599
<v Speaker 2>in Genesis, right, especially if you've read the work of

704
00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:03.480
<v Speaker 2>this scholar who recently passed Russell Gimerkin. In Genesis, how

705
00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:06.760
<v Speaker 2>does God create? How does God make the order? He

706
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.679
<v Speaker 2>speaks it into existence. God doesn't fashion light out of

707
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:12.599
<v Speaker 2>a light bulb. He says, let there be light.

708
00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:15.400
<v Speaker 6>So there's this whole thing.

709
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:19.920
<v Speaker 2>It's a very very Hellenic and Hellenistic sort of tradition.

710
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:24.599
<v Speaker 2>But in the theology, which is not technically it's derivative

711
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:27.400
<v Speaker 2>from the scriptures. Not in the scriptures, you get the

712
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:32.119
<v Speaker 2>Holy Trinity, Father's son, Holy Spirit. Well Tertullian, who was

713
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:35.039
<v Speaker 2>an early church father, would have been swimming in these

714
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:36.559
<v Speaker 2>neoplatonic circles in.

715
00:39:39.079 --> 00:39:39.519
<v Speaker 6>That time.

716
00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:46.679
<v Speaker 2>He introduces this idea of the Holy Trinity, and he says,

717
00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:51.559
<v Speaker 2>today persona I una substantia, three persons, one substance. This

718
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:55.840
<v Speaker 2>idea ultimately comes out of the Platinium neoplatonic idea. Of

719
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:59.360
<v Speaker 2>the three hypostheses, we have the one that is the

720
00:39:59.480 --> 00:40:05.239
<v Speaker 2>three somehow the one is simultaneously three. God is creative,

721
00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:12.199
<v Speaker 2>Deity has to uh simultaneously exist in the beginning in

722
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:17.960
<v Speaker 2>three phases of activity that are that are you know,

723
00:40:18.199 --> 00:40:22.480
<v Speaker 2>coterminous code contemporary, it's all happening at the same time.

724
00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.559
<v Speaker 6>So yeah, that gets brought in. Then you get the

725
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:27.360
<v Speaker 6>hierarchies that.

726
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:32.239
<v Speaker 2>Iamblicus was using, right the ae Ambleaki and hierarchies for theorgy.

727
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:37.440
<v Speaker 2>The the third century Neoplatonic philosopher Eamblicus of Calquis, who

728
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:39.880
<v Speaker 2>wrote on the Mysteries and gives us the whole textbook

729
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:43.679
<v Speaker 2>of Greek theogy that so much of our ritual is

730
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:44.920
<v Speaker 2>based on even.

731
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:45.719
<v Speaker 6>In the modern day.

732
00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:51.400
<v Speaker 2>He comes up with this stratification of of uh spiritual

733
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:55.280
<v Speaker 2>ontology like a ladder of being, and he calls these

734
00:40:55.320 --> 00:40:58.079
<v Speaker 2>the gods in the greater kinds, and it gets really

735
00:40:58.119 --> 00:40:59.840
<v Speaker 2>really harry. If you want to know more about it,

736
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:02.639
<v Speaker 2>did a whole video of it called what is Theorgy?

737
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:05.599
<v Speaker 2>On the arcanean podcast. But long story, shirt is this

738
00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:10.239
<v Speaker 2>guy that we now call Pseudodionysus. He takes that hierarchy

739
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:17.519
<v Speaker 2>and he changes the nomenclature. Okay, so in the pagan

740
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:22.079
<v Speaker 2>Greek system, they had angels and archangels, but they were

741
00:41:22.119 --> 00:41:26.000
<v Speaker 2>lowered down, and then above that were these things called

742
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:29.440
<v Speaker 2>the en cosmic gods, the hypercosmic gods, the liberated gods.

743
00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:29.960
<v Speaker 6>Well, if you're a.

744
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Christian, you can't call anything god but God. So he

745
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:38.840
<v Speaker 2>changes the nomenclature, but the way he describes them, the

746
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:43.960
<v Speaker 2>functions remain identical. So yeah, one hundred and ten percent,

747
00:41:44.400 --> 00:41:49.199
<v Speaker 2>you get a tremendous amount of esoteric philosophy that completely

748
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:52.480
<v Speaker 2>shapes Christianity. And if you've ever gone to like a

749
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:56.880
<v Speaker 2>Greek or a Catholic mass, this is when they say

750
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the thrones arabeem, serabeam, seraphime, principalities, when they go down

751
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:08.360
<v Speaker 2>that whole archangel's angels. That's the pseudo Dionysian hierarchy that

752
00:42:08.480 --> 00:42:11.760
<v Speaker 2>got taken out of Greek paganism. So so there is

753
00:42:11.840 --> 00:42:14.800
<v Speaker 2>a tremendous The thing is like, you can don't get

754
00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:17.639
<v Speaker 2>your wires crossed and think that they were stealing it's

755
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:18.440
<v Speaker 2>not what they were doing.

756
00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:23.039
<v Speaker 6>If I wanted to swim from one from I'm on

757
00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:23.440
<v Speaker 6>this part.

758
00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:26.239
<v Speaker 2>There's water between me. I'm going to that port and

759
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:27.800
<v Speaker 2>I want to swim, or I want to row my boat.

760
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:31.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm rowing my boat. I'm rowing my boat. That's the technology,

761
00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:37.280
<v Speaker 2>the technology of my you know, whatever I'm doing, my actions,

762
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:41.079
<v Speaker 2>my work. I'm trying to get there. If my destination changes,

763
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:44.719
<v Speaker 2>do I get out of the water and get a helicopter. No,

764
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:48.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm applying what I'm already doing to a new destination,

765
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.760
<v Speaker 2>because it's it's science to them, you know, it's this

766
00:42:52.960 --> 00:42:55.719
<v Speaker 2>is this was their science. So they didn't steal so

767
00:42:55.880 --> 00:42:58.559
<v Speaker 2>much as they reoriented the traditions they had in a

768
00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:04.119
<v Speaker 2>new direction. And so, but later on, and this will

769
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:07.480
<v Speaker 2>probably cap my point. Later on you get like Thomas Aquinas,

770
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:11.960
<v Speaker 2>albertist Magnus, and these guys are the Scholastics, and they're

771
00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:16.719
<v Speaker 2>much more Aristotelian, but still obviously they're theists. So there

772
00:43:16.800 --> 00:43:21.119
<v Speaker 2>remains a very strong mystical and metaphysical component there. I

773
00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:26.960
<v Speaker 2>would say Christian mysticism is almost entirely informed by the

774
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:31.960
<v Speaker 2>idea of emanation and return that we get from Platinus.

775
00:43:33.320 --> 00:43:34.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's why. It was another reason why I asked you.

776
00:43:35.079 --> 00:43:36.679
<v Speaker 4>I had I don't know, maybe a month or so ago,

777
00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:39.119
<v Speaker 4>maybe more than that, I did like a solo show

778
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:41.679
<v Speaker 4>on Platinus and there was just a lot of stuff

779
00:43:41.719 --> 00:43:44.280
<v Speaker 4>on there that I was like, Yo, you really influenced

780
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:45.800
<v Speaker 4>the shit out of Christianity.

781
00:43:46.360 --> 00:43:49.079
<v Speaker 3>And you know what I had noticed too. And again

782
00:43:49.119 --> 00:43:50.840
<v Speaker 3>I just use this as an example.

783
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:52.599
<v Speaker 4>It's probably not the best for everybody because I haven't

784
00:43:52.639 --> 00:43:55.199
<v Speaker 4>had the pleasure of going to an alcoholics anonymous meeting,

785
00:43:55.719 --> 00:43:57.400
<v Speaker 4>but like, if you go there that's based on the

786
00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:59.920
<v Speaker 4>Big Book, but then you will hear all these phrases

787
00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:02.840
<v Speaker 4>that actually aren't in there. It's like, oh, you know,

788
00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:05.960
<v Speaker 4>I don't even remember him anymore, but they aren't actually

789
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:08.320
<v Speaker 4>in the Big Book, but they sound great. I feel

790
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:11.199
<v Speaker 4>like a lot of ideas that a lot of Christians

791
00:44:11.320 --> 00:44:13.800
<v Speaker 4>kind of have that technically aren't in the Bible is

792
00:44:13.880 --> 00:44:16.159
<v Speaker 4>kind of like influenced by things that Plotinus and other

793
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:18.320
<v Speaker 4>people said. I think even one of them is maybe

794
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:19.840
<v Speaker 4>the idea of seeing you love the ones and they

795
00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:22.519
<v Speaker 4>after life. It's not in the Bible, but that Christians

796
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:24.079
<v Speaker 4>believe that, and I think that might have actually came

797
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:25.239
<v Speaker 4>from Plotinus in a sense.

798
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:29.599
<v Speaker 6>Well, you know, it's that goes as far back as

799
00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:30.719
<v Speaker 6>as as Egypt.

800
00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:33.280
<v Speaker 2>But are the main myth that we have for it

801
00:44:33.360 --> 00:44:36.760
<v Speaker 2>in the West comes from the book ten of the Republic,

802
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Plato's Republic, the myth.

803
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:40.679
<v Speaker 3>Of er Oh maybe it was played on.

804
00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:47.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, still Tousinas. He expands the metaphysics of Plato tremendously.

805
00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:50.519
<v Speaker 2>But the thing is this, uh, and this is what

806
00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:54.920
<v Speaker 2>I tried to establish with a formless fire. We cannot

807
00:44:55.320 --> 00:45:02.320
<v Speaker 2>underestimate the foundational significance that is still present, not in

808
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:06.800
<v Speaker 2>a vestigial way, but it's here now in our traditions,

809
00:45:07.400 --> 00:45:10.239
<v Speaker 2>our entire way of looking at this stuff, whether you're

810
00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:13.559
<v Speaker 2>a Christian or whether you're a ceremonial magic it's all

811
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:21.119
<v Speaker 2>predicated on Hellenic and Hellenistic philosophy. Now, all this stuff

812
00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:25.599
<v Speaker 2>existed in sumer and in Babylon and in ancient Egypt,

813
00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:29.480
<v Speaker 2>for sure, but we don't get it in a preserved

814
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:34.480
<v Speaker 2>sort of digestible format that is cognizable to the Western

815
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:37.320
<v Speaker 2>mind in the same way that say, the Platonic dialogues

816
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:41.960
<v Speaker 2>are or the writings of Proclus are. We have not

817
00:45:42.360 --> 00:45:46.480
<v Speaker 2>inherited that, or at least it hasn't penetrated from academic

818
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:48.199
<v Speaker 2>translation into the mainstream.

819
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:52.639
<v Speaker 6>So really the water we're swimming in is hellenistic here.

820
00:45:52.719 --> 00:45:57.239
<v Speaker 2>So all of those philosophies constitute what we would now

821
00:45:57.559 --> 00:46:02.679
<v Speaker 2>post Enlightenment, post industrial revolution, what we would now consider

822
00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:08.119
<v Speaker 2>esoteric or occult. But you know, classical arithmetic, you know,

823
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:19.880
<v Speaker 2>the quadrivium arithmetic, geometry, harmony and arithmetic geometry, harmony and astronomy.

824
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:21.280
<v Speaker 6>These were.

825
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Not separated from an idea of an essential metaphysic, so

826
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:32.119
<v Speaker 2>they they it. So only later did we kind of

827
00:46:33.159 --> 00:46:36.519
<v Speaker 2>drain the the the blood out of the you know,

828
00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:38.719
<v Speaker 2>our quote unquote hard sciences.

829
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:40.840
<v Speaker 4>Now, well, like even in the past, and most of

830
00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:43.440
<v Speaker 4>these people that you see, like I mean I've even

831
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:47.000
<v Speaker 4>covered Saint Hildegarden, she was a polymath.

832
00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:49.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you have all these people that are actually polymen.

833
00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:50.320
<v Speaker 3>You know, there was a lot more.

834
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:52.599
<v Speaker 4>They looked at everything and like applying it to like

835
00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:56.840
<v Speaker 4>every single subject that they studied, which hence is why

836
00:46:56.840 --> 00:46:58.599
<v Speaker 4>I have bring so many people on the show, because

837
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:00.840
<v Speaker 4>I'm not a polymnize myself, so i gotta bring everybody

838
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:03.199
<v Speaker 4>with different things together try to make sense of something.

839
00:47:03.639 --> 00:47:06.079
<v Speaker 4>So you know what I'm saying like, I think that

840
00:47:06.199 --> 00:47:08.400
<v Speaker 4>is another huge problem too, is just the education system

841
00:47:08.440 --> 00:47:09.519
<v Speaker 4>and the way that we look at things.

842
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:10.639
<v Speaker 3>It's just not the same anymore.

843
00:47:11.639 --> 00:47:13.400
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, it is a huge problem.

844
00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:16.800
<v Speaker 2>It's an existential problem for human beings in the twenty

845
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:22.880
<v Speaker 2>first century. We're really we can't it's hard to it's

846
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:23.760
<v Speaker 2>hard to talk about.

847
00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:25.559
<v Speaker 6>So I'm not going to.

848
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:31.880
<v Speaker 2>But ultimately we really need a drastic reevaluation of education.

849
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:32.760
<v Speaker 6>But it's happening.

850
00:47:33.599 --> 00:47:36.239
<v Speaker 2>It's happening right now, and it's happening in these spaces

851
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:41.639
<v Speaker 2>right I'm I'm currently studying the Severn Liberal Arts. I'm

852
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:45.519
<v Speaker 2>also teaching the Quadrivium and all of this is happening online.

853
00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:51.119
<v Speaker 2>So I'm not going to a university. I'm not taking out,

854
00:47:51.199 --> 00:47:54.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, paying Fannie May. None of that's happening. I'm

855
00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:57.039
<v Speaker 2>sitting here. I'm not going to be twenty thousand dollars

856
00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:00.679
<v Speaker 2>in debt. I am going to interact with a small

857
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:03.519
<v Speaker 2>group of people, you know, compared to a lecture hall,

858
00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:08.480
<v Speaker 2>and we're going to discuss you know, uh, without bias,

859
00:48:09.320 --> 00:48:15.480
<v Speaker 2>without reduction, reductive materialist bias and being afraid to feel foolish,

860
00:48:16.599 --> 00:48:18.639
<v Speaker 2>you know. Like, but that's why i made my channel,

861
00:48:18.679 --> 00:48:21.360
<v Speaker 2>because I saw a lot of scholars out there doing

862
00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:23.440
<v Speaker 2>their thing, and I wanted my channel to be a

863
00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:26.800
<v Speaker 2>place where belief was not a four letter word, is

864
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:30.800
<v Speaker 2>not a dirty word, and we come together in these

865
00:48:30.800 --> 00:48:35.199
<v Speaker 2>spaces and we learn, you know, and we explore ideas

866
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:41.639
<v Speaker 2>of the the I would say antique or magical worldview

867
00:48:41.719 --> 00:48:42.519
<v Speaker 2>maybe let's call it.

868
00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:46.039
<v Speaker 3>I like that. Well.

869
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:47.760
<v Speaker 4>I do think it's a lot easier for people to

870
00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:50.119
<v Speaker 4>actually find what they're looking for now, especially with the

871
00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:51.119
<v Speaker 4>Internet like you're getting in.

872
00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:56.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean, like the places podcasts like this where

873
00:48:56.719 --> 00:48:59.840
<v Speaker 2>you guys are having so many people on it's I mean,

874
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:03.320
<v Speaker 2>and it's it's free, you know, people just can consume

875
00:49:03.400 --> 00:49:05.519
<v Speaker 2>this stuff and get like a real education.

876
00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:07.000
<v Speaker 6>It's it's very high value.

877
00:49:08.119 --> 00:49:10.239
<v Speaker 3>That's what I try. That's what I'm shooting for. Thank you.

878
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:12.480
<v Speaker 4>I'm trying trying my best. That's what I got someone

879
00:49:12.519 --> 00:49:15.599
<v Speaker 4>on like you. Is anybody here when I ask this

880
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:19.440
<v Speaker 4>guy any questions or anything? Before I keep going, I

881
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:20.079
<v Speaker 4>have a question.

882
00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:23.519
<v Speaker 5>I really liked your uh, your bringing up how the

883
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:28.559
<v Speaker 5>Hebrews used the Greek words to kind of build on

884
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:32.840
<v Speaker 5>their understanding of what they may have been looking at

885
00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:36.480
<v Speaker 5>prior to getting these new words for kind of new

886
00:49:37.360 --> 00:49:40.559
<v Speaker 5>mapping of the system, if you will, and and to

887
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:46.199
<v Speaker 5>that them, these different streams of systems or information coming

888
00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:50.719
<v Speaker 5>together and enhancing. I really like that you brought together

889
00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:57.639
<v Speaker 5>the East and West to speak broadly, but just the

890
00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:01.679
<v Speaker 5>different studies from the Eastern and West and traditions. And

891
00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:05.599
<v Speaker 5>could you maybe expound on how that has helped you

892
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:11.840
<v Speaker 5>understand the different streams by you know, understanding the chigung

893
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:15.000
<v Speaker 5>and the reiki energy systems, and how you might have

894
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:21.119
<v Speaker 5>explored the Western ideas with the Eastern knowledge and maybe

895
00:50:21.239 --> 00:50:21.800
<v Speaker 5>vice versa.

896
00:50:23.320 --> 00:50:25.320
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that's a great question.

897
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:31.119
<v Speaker 2>It's kind of, you know, my big project, I guess

898
00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:33.599
<v Speaker 2>my life's work is trying to show because it's it

899
00:50:33.960 --> 00:50:36.079
<v Speaker 2>can't just be done in a single book like in

900
00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:39.079
<v Speaker 2>Etheric magic. It's kind of the introduction, but it's part

901
00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:45.719
<v Speaker 2>of a larger conversation. And I spent a lot of

902
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:51.119
<v Speaker 2>years engaging in what I called, you know, spiritual exoticism.

903
00:50:51.519 --> 00:50:54.440
<v Speaker 2>I went to the farthest parts East and looked at

904
00:50:54.599 --> 00:50:58.000
<v Speaker 2>zen and looked at yoga because I didn't understand what

905
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:00.559
<v Speaker 2>was under my nose. But now when I come back

906
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:01.960
<v Speaker 2>to these systems.

907
00:51:02.360 --> 00:51:02.960
<v Speaker 3>I see that.

908
00:51:04.960 --> 00:51:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Culturally on like a cultural DNA level A blueprint level.

909
00:51:09.639 --> 00:51:14.400
<v Speaker 2>I understand the Western system more than I understand the vernacular,

910
00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:19.000
<v Speaker 2>the nuances, the subtleties of something like zen which was

911
00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:20.400
<v Speaker 2>my first meditative practice.

912
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:23.239
<v Speaker 6>I studied with the Zen ro sheets says en meditation. Uh,

913
00:51:23.559 --> 00:51:24.280
<v Speaker 6>And that's great.

914
00:51:25.039 --> 00:51:26.559
<v Speaker 2>If you put a gun to my head and said

915
00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:28.679
<v Speaker 2>you got to choose meditation or ritual, there's no way

916
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:29.880
<v Speaker 2>I could part with my meditation.

917
00:51:30.440 --> 00:51:32.320
<v Speaker 6>You know, It's just I just can't do it. But

918
00:51:33.199 --> 00:51:35.239
<v Speaker 6>the understanding of.

919
00:51:36.840 --> 00:51:40.960
<v Speaker 2>These things really, for me, it starts from the Western perspective.

920
00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:43.159
<v Speaker 3>So what have we got? All Right?

921
00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:48.239
<v Speaker 6>I'm into magic. I love magic. Let's look at some

922
00:51:48.360 --> 00:51:50.719
<v Speaker 6>of the the you know, the quintessential magical texts in

923
00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:51.199
<v Speaker 6>the West.

924
00:51:51.599 --> 00:51:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, you look at you got to read on the mysteries,

925
00:51:55.119 --> 00:51:57.559
<v Speaker 2>because he gives the whole system of what he called,

926
00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:02.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, Eamblicus calls sinthema da, which then Agrippa right,

927
00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa, writing.

928
00:52:07.320 --> 00:52:12.039
<v Speaker 6>Like eleven hundred years later, he calls it the Latin sigillum.

929
00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:16.000
<v Speaker 6>And this all means signatures. It's why you have a

930
00:52:16.079 --> 00:52:19.239
<v Speaker 6>certain incense for a certain planet or a certain god.

931
00:52:19.400 --> 00:52:22.760
<v Speaker 6>It's literally why use a certain herb. It's because their

932
00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:28.639
<v Speaker 6>essences are diffused throughout everything in the cosmos. If you

933
00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:30.400
<v Speaker 6>read what they were talking about the gods.

934
00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:36.559
<v Speaker 2>The gods really are numbers, but we anthropomorphize them so

935
00:52:36.679 --> 00:52:41.000
<v Speaker 2>that we can understand them through human like or you know,

936
00:52:41.760 --> 00:52:43.000
<v Speaker 2>animal like images.

937
00:52:43.079 --> 00:52:44.840
<v Speaker 6>But at the end of the day, it's very very abstract.

938
00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:48.960
<v Speaker 2>They're the root essences of all causality that diffuse themselves

939
00:52:49.079 --> 00:52:53.199
<v Speaker 2>and create everything in the cosmos. So a rose, for instance,

940
00:52:53.639 --> 00:52:57.400
<v Speaker 2>the petals, the aroma, the silky texture, the color that's

941
00:52:57.440 --> 00:53:00.480
<v Speaker 2>gonna be very Venusian or aphrodite if you like. But

942
00:53:00.880 --> 00:53:06.960
<v Speaker 2>arose typically has thorns, not Venusian, very marshall, it has roots,

943
00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:08.199
<v Speaker 2>very Saturnian.

944
00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:09.679
<v Speaker 3>So this as.

945
00:53:11.800 --> 00:53:15.639
<v Speaker 2>This is, it really has tremendous bearing on Agrippa's system

946
00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:19.400
<v Speaker 2>of magic. That is where everything you know, especially Golden

947
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:23.199
<v Speaker 2>Dawn magic comes from. So then you start looking and

948
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:27.679
<v Speaker 2>you're like, all right, we've got all the theory, we've

949
00:53:27.679 --> 00:53:31.199
<v Speaker 2>got all the philosophy, but where is the actual system

950
00:53:32.280 --> 00:53:35.920
<v Speaker 2>And that is not as well preserved in the in.

951
00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:40.159
<v Speaker 6>The West, in systems of like Chinese medicine.

952
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:44.840
<v Speaker 2>Really most forms of traditional medicine, particularly in the East

953
00:53:45.480 --> 00:53:49.559
<v Speaker 2>these are kind of these right under your nose, secret

954
00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:57.280
<v Speaker 2>agglomerations of this tradition of signatures, right, and we've kind

955
00:53:57.320 --> 00:53:59.000
<v Speaker 2>of thrown it out in the West in favor of

956
00:53:59.039 --> 00:54:03.599
<v Speaker 2>allopathic medice in the pharmaceutical industry, which at first was,

957
00:54:03.840 --> 00:54:07.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, really really reliant on something like Paracelsian medicine,

958
00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:13.559
<v Speaker 2>which itself relied on a humoral medical diagnostic system, which

959
00:54:13.639 --> 00:54:16.039
<v Speaker 2>is based in the signatures. So if you go and

960
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:22.880
<v Speaker 2>you study Chinese diagnosis, Chinese medical sort of correspondence theory,

961
00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:25.719
<v Speaker 2>you will then be able to go back and apply

962
00:54:25.960 --> 00:54:30.320
<v Speaker 2>this stuff to magic. You'll have the system. Takes a

963
00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:33.719
<v Speaker 2>lot of time, but it's there. And so like this

964
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:36.079
<v Speaker 2>is just an example. It's one of the ways I

965
00:54:36.199 --> 00:54:37.639
<v Speaker 2>kind of accidental.

966
00:54:37.679 --> 00:54:39.079
<v Speaker 6>I didn't know. I didn't know this was going to

967
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:42.400
<v Speaker 6>be the case, you know, but in one of the.

968
00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:45.760
<v Speaker 2>Ways I kind of accidentally found that, like you, you

969
00:54:46.039 --> 00:54:48.199
<v Speaker 2>have to bridge these hemispheric cultures.

970
00:54:48.320 --> 00:54:49.840
<v Speaker 6>That's the only way you can get the whole thing.

971
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:57.800
<v Speaker 4>I like what you just said about I guess numbers. God,

972
00:54:58.440 --> 00:55:01.639
<v Speaker 4>God's I don't I might self. It's kind of like

973
00:55:01.960 --> 00:55:04.320
<v Speaker 4>I don't know. I guess maybe it's a little risk

974
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:07.719
<v Speaker 4>not risky but controversial to come out and say, I myself,

975
00:55:07.760 --> 00:55:10.280
<v Speaker 4>I really don't believe all those things are like real,

976
00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:13.119
<v Speaker 4>like I do think they're a little bit different than

977
00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:14.239
<v Speaker 4>they than people look at.

978
00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:15.239
<v Speaker 3>That's just my opinion.

979
00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:20.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, yeah, I've even gone into uh, you know, real

980
00:55:21.360 --> 00:55:23.760
<v Speaker 4>quick and you're just weird question, And then I think,

981
00:55:24.119 --> 00:55:25.840
<v Speaker 4>my boy, the branch over here has something he wants

982
00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:28.039
<v Speaker 4>to ask you, only because you kind of meant we're

983
00:55:28.079 --> 00:55:29.760
<v Speaker 4>kind of getting onto it now about the gods that

984
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:33.199
<v Speaker 4>maybe being real in that sense, and uh, and looking

985
00:55:33.320 --> 00:55:36.920
<v Speaker 4>at being I guess a polymath looking at some other

986
00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:40.360
<v Speaker 4>things that like Robert Flood has done or other people,

987
00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:43.000
<v Speaker 4>you start seeing the brain in the eyeball popping up.

988
00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:45.920
<v Speaker 4>Do you every think that any of that stuff is

989
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:48.679
<v Speaker 4>there any symbolism or cultism or whatever it might actually

990
00:55:48.760 --> 00:55:51.400
<v Speaker 4>be like pointing at that type of stuff as well.

991
00:55:54.800 --> 00:55:55.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

992
00:55:55.079 --> 00:55:59.079
<v Speaker 6>Well, the thing is.

993
00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:08.360
<v Speaker 2>This also can sort of reduce down to again Platonic philosophy,

994
00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:15.360
<v Speaker 2>the relationship to cite and the mind in the Platonic,

995
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:19.719
<v Speaker 2>in the in the the Platonic and Neoplatonic, and therefore

996
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:23.559
<v Speaker 2>another system that was influenced by Greek words. A lot

997
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:28.519
<v Speaker 2>of people nowadays we want to sort of reinvest the

998
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Egyptian culture with its own sort of spiritual tradition that

999
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:35.679
<v Speaker 2>we understand. So we say, oh, the Hermitica is Egyptian,

1000
00:56:35.719 --> 00:56:39.880
<v Speaker 2>but the Hermitica is Hellenistic. It uses it, it is completely,

1001
00:56:41.960 --> 00:56:45.480
<v Speaker 2>It uses Greek philosophical term, does not use Egyptian philosophical terms.

1002
00:56:46.639 --> 00:56:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Logoss key, methampsychosis. All of these ideas come out.

1003
00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:51.960
<v Speaker 6>Of that tradition.

1004
00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:57.440
<v Speaker 2>But the key there is in book six and seven

1005
00:56:57.480 --> 00:57:02.320
<v Speaker 2>of the Republic when Plato'scrates describes the allegory of the

1006
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:05.719
<v Speaker 2>cave right, which is the paradigm of all Western initiation,

1007
00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:10.400
<v Speaker 2>moving from darkness to light, and then he says, why

1008
00:57:10.559 --> 00:57:14.679
<v Speaker 2>the sun? Why is the sun your image of God?

1009
00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:19.239
<v Speaker 2>He says, because the sun is to cite what God

1010
00:57:19.519 --> 00:57:24.440
<v Speaker 2>is to the mind and knowledge. So there is a

1011
00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:29.480
<v Speaker 2>sun behind the sun that illuminates in here. It doesn't

1012
00:57:29.519 --> 00:57:35.280
<v Speaker 2>happen anywhere else. It illuminates in here, but the Sun

1013
00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:39.360
<v Speaker 2>itself as an emissary what we would call the you know,

1014
00:57:39.559 --> 00:57:42.880
<v Speaker 2>the body in Platonism in Theorgy, we would call the

1015
00:57:43.000 --> 00:57:47.039
<v Speaker 2>sun ilios. We would call that the body of the

1016
00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:53.079
<v Speaker 2>subluminary demiurge, and the purpose it serves is to give

1017
00:57:53.199 --> 00:57:59.880
<v Speaker 2>us a sort of express analogically the principle of illumination,

1018
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:03.119
<v Speaker 2>so that we it gives us sight and it gives

1019
00:58:03.199 --> 00:58:05.320
<v Speaker 2>us knowledge. Right, you can't know something if you can't

1020
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:08.840
<v Speaker 2>discern its characteristics, and we can't do that in the dark.

1021
00:58:09.960 --> 00:58:15.000
<v Speaker 2>So there's that relation that automatically comes to to my

1022
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:17.360
<v Speaker 2>mind when you bring that up, because well, we know

1023
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:21.239
<v Speaker 2>Robert Flood would have been very familiar with with these traditions.

1024
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:24.559
<v Speaker 2>But also you know, that's that's kind of the that's

1025
00:58:24.639 --> 00:58:27.159
<v Speaker 2>kind of what I'm steeped in, So that's stuff obviously

1026
00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:31.400
<v Speaker 2>that that platonic hermetic sort of filter is what I'm

1027
00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:33.159
<v Speaker 2>going to be looking through everything at.

1028
00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:34.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

1029
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:36.800
<v Speaker 4>I even think even in the Enneads, I think they

1030
00:58:36.840 --> 00:58:39.519
<v Speaker 4>had a thing on site, So yeah, they're even like

1031
00:58:39.599 --> 00:58:41.760
<v Speaker 4>kind of like getting about like the whole like relationship

1032
00:58:41.840 --> 00:58:44.480
<v Speaker 4>between like I guess, sight and what's in between even

1033
00:58:44.599 --> 00:58:48.480
<v Speaker 4>like what's in between here and the table I'm looking at, Like, yeah, Well,

1034
00:58:49.119 --> 00:58:50.679
<v Speaker 4>and the ancient study of.

1035
00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:57.320
<v Speaker 2>Light was called optics because the Greeks there were in

1036
00:58:57.440 --> 00:59:00.320
<v Speaker 2>terms of their their sort of physiological philosop of either

1037
00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:03.280
<v Speaker 2>medical philosophy or philosophy anatomy, it was.

1038
00:59:03.480 --> 00:59:03.960
<v Speaker 9>They were.

1039
00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:10.840
<v Speaker 2>Really of two frames of mind. You saw things because

1040
00:59:10.960 --> 00:59:14.079
<v Speaker 2>light entered your eyes, or there's this other really cool thing.

1041
00:59:15.679 --> 00:59:19.000
<v Speaker 2>You saw things because light was exiting your eyes and whatever.

1042
00:59:19.079 --> 00:59:23.519
<v Speaker 2>Those beams concentrated on broad knowledge. I mean, that's kind

1043
00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:25.400
<v Speaker 2>of cool idea to think about walking around with laser

1044
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:29.719
<v Speaker 2>beams firing out of your eyes. But but so so yeah,

1045
00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:35.800
<v Speaker 2>this idea of light, illumination and sight are very very intertwined.

1046
00:59:36.039 --> 00:59:40.199
<v Speaker 6>I mean even in modern even in modern biological.

1047
00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:42.320
<v Speaker 2>Sciences, it's just you know, it's a little it's a

1048
00:59:42.360 --> 00:59:47.199
<v Speaker 2>little less focused on that relationship and it's more focused on.

1049
00:59:48.760 --> 00:59:52.639
<v Speaker 6>Anatomy itself. I would say nowadays.

1050
00:59:53.519 --> 00:59:56.199
<v Speaker 3>All right, thank you very much. I appreciate that answer.

1051
00:59:56.239 --> 00:59:56.639
<v Speaker 3>That was great.

1052
00:59:56.679 --> 00:59:58.280
<v Speaker 4>It's probably the most I got out of anybody I've

1053
00:59:58.280 --> 01:00:02.239
<v Speaker 4>asked that. Normally nobody weird some people out, so I

1054
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:04.159
<v Speaker 4>don't think they'll come back on. Actually there's one or

1055
01:00:04.199 --> 01:00:05.280
<v Speaker 4>two people I did that too.

1056
01:00:05.639 --> 01:00:08.440
<v Speaker 2>I was like, sorry, I mean, these are these are

1057
01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:12.199
<v Speaker 2>awesome prompts. You guys ask great questions and and and

1058
01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:14.360
<v Speaker 2>and and give great comments.

1059
01:00:15.280 --> 01:00:16.719
<v Speaker 3>Thanks the branch.

1060
01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:18.320
<v Speaker 4>I think I saw you in chat. You were looking

1061
01:00:18.360 --> 01:00:19.880
<v Speaker 4>to ask a question and I don't want to leave

1062
01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:21.440
<v Speaker 4>you out, so you jumped in late.

1063
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:22.119
<v Speaker 3>What's going on?

1064
01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:25.840
<v Speaker 9>Hey, guys, it's a pleasure to be here. It's nice

1065
01:00:25.840 --> 01:00:31.119
<v Speaker 9>to meet you. I likewise thanks for hosting me. Some

1066
01:00:31.239 --> 01:00:33.719
<v Speaker 9>of the things you discussed kind of jumped out at me,

1067
01:00:34.880 --> 01:00:37.199
<v Speaker 9>so I wanted to mention, Oh, first of all, Nick,

1068
01:00:37.480 --> 01:00:40.840
<v Speaker 9>what the polymath thing? They reminded me of how the

1069
01:00:41.320 --> 01:00:45.719
<v Speaker 9>Mason is instructed to learn the liberal sciences. So when

1070
01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:48.679
<v Speaker 9>you so, when Mike was talking about the classes he

1071
01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:50.679
<v Speaker 9>was taking, I was thinking, oh, well that's you know,

1072
01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:53.079
<v Speaker 9>what you're supposed to do as a Mason, right, is.

1073
01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:56.519
<v Speaker 1>To shape your mind. And but what is the purpose

1074
01:00:56.599 --> 01:00:56.760
<v Speaker 1>of that?

1075
01:00:56.960 --> 01:00:57.079
<v Speaker 5>Right?

1076
01:00:57.199 --> 01:00:59.239
<v Speaker 9>So I think it might be partly so that you

1077
01:00:59.400 --> 01:01:09.199
<v Speaker 9>can relate the correspondences appropriately and or teach perhaps. But anyhow,

1078
01:01:09.679 --> 01:01:16.119
<v Speaker 9>so you mentioned you were a carpenter, speculative Mason at

1079
01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:18.960
<v Speaker 9>the very least, and the magician. So I was curious

1080
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:22.119
<v Speaker 9>you might be able to kind of answer a question

1081
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:26.519
<v Speaker 9>I've asked other people before, because you did mention the

1082
01:01:26.559 --> 01:01:28.039
<v Speaker 9>body of Christ being like the sun.

1083
01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:31.119
<v Speaker 6>Right, so where they gather is the church?

1084
01:01:31.559 --> 01:01:31.719
<v Speaker 2>Right?

1085
01:01:31.880 --> 01:01:36.320
<v Speaker 9>So I've always found it kind of strange. Why did

1086
01:01:36.400 --> 01:01:40.239
<v Speaker 9>the church change the way it did. From your opinion

1087
01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:42.960
<v Speaker 9>as a carpenter, maybe you have some insights because the

1088
01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:47.400
<v Speaker 9>temple door was supposed to face east right, and so

1089
01:01:47.599 --> 01:01:50.239
<v Speaker 9>with this relationship to the sun and the body of Christ.

1090
01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:54.480
<v Speaker 9>You know, I'm starting to wonder are we losing things

1091
01:01:54.679 --> 01:01:59.920
<v Speaker 9>like this, the little details in our communal ritual practices,

1092
01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:02.760
<v Speaker 9>because well, it's more convenient just to put it on

1093
01:02:02.840 --> 01:02:06.400
<v Speaker 9>the strip mall location, So we're not really pay attention

1094
01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:11.119
<v Speaker 9>to the actual blueprints that were provided to us in Litviticus,

1095
01:02:11.159 --> 01:02:14.199
<v Speaker 9>for instance. So as a carpenter, maybe you can answer

1096
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:16.920
<v Speaker 9>that question, because you know how important blueprints are.

1097
01:02:17.239 --> 01:02:19.280
<v Speaker 1>That's the mind of God, right.

1098
01:02:19.639 --> 01:02:21.599
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, well, well that's the thing.

1099
01:02:23.119 --> 01:02:26.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad you brought up the several Liberal arts of

1100
01:02:26.679 --> 01:02:29.360
<v Speaker 2>the fellow Craft's degree. It's actually how I got interested

1101
01:02:29.400 --> 01:02:32.599
<v Speaker 2>in Jamie's work. He did a master work called Approaching

1102
01:02:32.639 --> 01:02:36.039
<v Speaker 2>the Middle Chamber that just totally floored me. And he

1103
01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:38.360
<v Speaker 2>goes through for the fellow Craft because a lot of

1104
01:02:38.440 --> 01:02:42.519
<v Speaker 2>times it's this midpoint in your Masonic journey and you're

1105
01:02:42.559 --> 01:02:44.840
<v Speaker 2>just like, Okay, get me through. I want the master Mason,

1106
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:47.199
<v Speaker 2>and like, also, really, how you're going to learn the

1107
01:02:47.239 --> 01:02:51.599
<v Speaker 2>seven Liberal Arts? But They're really important because when you

1108
01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:55.400
<v Speaker 2>begin to understand them, and then at the same time

1109
01:02:55.480 --> 01:02:58.800
<v Speaker 2>as I'm learning them, right, I'm practicing carpentry, I'm I'm

1110
01:02:58.920 --> 01:03:04.239
<v Speaker 2>apprenticing under a master carpenter, and you begin to see

1111
01:03:04.280 --> 01:03:08.000
<v Speaker 2>that it's like we have this idea of like sacred

1112
01:03:08.079 --> 01:03:16.320
<v Speaker 2>geometry nowadays where we're sort of like reinvesting geometry with

1113
01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:19.880
<v Speaker 2>a kind of this this almost like quasi sci fi

1114
01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:26.159
<v Speaker 2>overlay and like making it like this really really sort

1115
01:03:26.199 --> 01:03:30.199
<v Speaker 2>of abstracted, strange thing that is is I don't know,

1116
01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:30.880
<v Speaker 2>it's part.

1117
01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:32.239
<v Speaker 6>Of the spiritual esthetic.

1118
01:03:33.199 --> 01:03:37.519
<v Speaker 2>And we have to do that because the geometry was

1119
01:03:37.840 --> 01:03:40.559
<v Speaker 2>was made, you know, post it started with euclid but

1120
01:03:40.639 --> 01:03:43.760
<v Speaker 2>after when we discovered non Euclidean geometry, we went completely

1121
01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:48.039
<v Speaker 2>hard science with this stuff. And what studying the Liberal

1122
01:03:48.159 --> 01:03:52.119
<v Speaker 2>arts shows you, right, because they're derived ultimately from Plato's Republic.

1123
01:03:52.840 --> 01:03:56.119
<v Speaker 2>He gives these seven sciences that the that the philosopher

1124
01:03:56.239 --> 01:04:02.519
<v Speaker 2>king must be educated in Aristotle kind of bears them out.

1125
01:04:04.119 --> 01:04:04.960
<v Speaker 6>And then you get.

1126
01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:09.840
<v Speaker 2>These official particularly in the Scholastic era that we were

1127
01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:12.280
<v Speaker 2>talking about earlier with Thomas Aquinas, and this is the

1128
01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:17.079
<v Speaker 2>way that they learned things and what was passed down

1129
01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:22.199
<v Speaker 2>from that philosophical tradition. That metaphysical tradition was the theology

1130
01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:27.440
<v Speaker 2>of number, right, the theology of arithmetic, the theology the

1131
01:04:27.519 --> 01:04:33.480
<v Speaker 2>metaphysic of geometry, the metaphysic of music and harmony. And

1132
01:04:33.639 --> 01:04:37.719
<v Speaker 2>it was inherent. It was completely inherent. So if you

1133
01:04:37.840 --> 01:04:40.599
<v Speaker 2>were to study, particularly as a modern person, the seven

1134
01:04:40.679 --> 01:04:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Liberal arts the way that they were traditionally taught, you

1135
01:04:43.719 --> 01:04:46.840
<v Speaker 2>would essentially the entire time be discussing the way that

1136
01:04:46.960 --> 01:04:50.280
<v Speaker 2>God creates the universe. This is very important to the

1137
01:04:50.360 --> 01:04:54.719
<v Speaker 2>master mason. And not only that, because it's constantly focused

1138
01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:57.119
<v Speaker 2>on a metaphysic, there is no point.

1139
01:04:57.599 --> 01:04:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Right.

1140
01:04:57.880 --> 01:05:03.119
<v Speaker 6>So there's this really great guys h third third century.

1141
01:05:04.239 --> 01:05:08.039
<v Speaker 2>Mathematician Neil Pythagorea named Theon of Smyrna, and he wrote

1142
01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:12.920
<v Speaker 2>this really really cool short treatise but dense, called mathematics

1143
01:05:13.039 --> 01:05:19.559
<v Speaker 2>useful for understanding Plato and the big differentiation you see

1144
01:05:19.599 --> 01:05:23.000
<v Speaker 2>in this book. In the way that he wrote, he says, Okay,

1145
01:05:23.079 --> 01:05:26.800
<v Speaker 2>here's your arithmetical theorem, here's your geometrical theorems, here's your

1146
01:05:27.159 --> 01:05:30.760
<v Speaker 2>harmonic theorems. Right, But before he launches into all this

1147
01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:35.599
<v Speaker 2>this hard science, hard math jargon, he says, beginning at one,

1148
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:42.400
<v Speaker 2>beginning with unity, beginning with unity. And what he's doing

1149
01:05:42.480 --> 01:05:47.840
<v Speaker 2>there is he's emphasizing the priority of God. He's emphasizing

1150
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:51.320
<v Speaker 2>the priority of the absolutely doesn't venture into any discussion

1151
01:05:51.360 --> 01:05:54.440
<v Speaker 2>of mathematics without first invoking God. What do we say

1152
01:05:54.480 --> 01:05:57.719
<v Speaker 2>in masonry, You know, no man should enter into any

1153
01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:02.719
<v Speaker 2>greater or important undertaking without first invoking the blessings of Deity.

1154
01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:06.440
<v Speaker 2>So always bringing that back to the table. And I

1155
01:06:06.559 --> 01:06:12.960
<v Speaker 2>think that this understanding in general of the theological and

1156
01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:19.079
<v Speaker 2>metaphysical nature which is inherent to everything we do. Losing

1157
01:06:19.239 --> 01:06:24.800
<v Speaker 2>that we have sacrificed our understanding of any of our traditions,

1158
01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:29.719
<v Speaker 2>whether that's a lot of times occult, whether that's Christian,

1159
01:06:30.719 --> 01:06:35.519
<v Speaker 2>whatever it is. We don't we have inherited things that

1160
01:06:35.719 --> 01:06:40.239
<v Speaker 2>we don't understand how to use because we've basically taken

1161
01:06:40.440 --> 01:06:45.239
<v Speaker 2>the knowledge of that mechanic out of our lexicon, out

1162
01:06:45.280 --> 01:06:45.880
<v Speaker 2>of our brains.

1163
01:06:46.400 --> 01:06:48.519
<v Speaker 6>We don't think like that, We don't understand that. We

1164
01:06:48.599 --> 01:06:49.679
<v Speaker 6>don't know what they thought.

1165
01:06:50.480 --> 01:06:53.440
<v Speaker 2>Why because when we read what they wrote, we're constantly

1166
01:06:53.559 --> 01:06:56.760
<v Speaker 2>trying to filter it through our modern lens, you know,

1167
01:06:56.840 --> 01:07:00.239
<v Speaker 2>which that will just screw everything up. You'll know, ever

1168
01:07:00.480 --> 01:07:03.559
<v Speaker 2>understand what they're talking about if you keep trying to

1169
01:07:03.679 --> 01:07:07.039
<v Speaker 2>stick it through what you know. So the key is

1170
01:07:07.119 --> 01:07:10.400
<v Speaker 2>then to go back. And it's a tremendous undertaking, and

1171
01:07:10.519 --> 01:07:15.039
<v Speaker 2>I will do it for you, but but the key

1172
01:07:15.159 --> 01:07:18.840
<v Speaker 2>is to go back and to learn exactly what they learned,

1173
01:07:19.880 --> 01:07:23.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, learn it. Don't sit there and try and say, oh, well,

1174
01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:25.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, maybe they meant this and what if it?

1175
01:07:25.599 --> 01:07:26.079
<v Speaker 3>Shut up?

1176
01:07:27.360 --> 01:07:28.920
<v Speaker 6>Learn what they learned.

1177
01:07:29.440 --> 01:07:32.840
<v Speaker 2>That's it, Okay, Then you can then once you've assimilated

1178
01:07:32.880 --> 01:07:36.159
<v Speaker 2>that information and you've seen the way that their minds thought,

1179
01:07:36.840 --> 01:07:41.039
<v Speaker 2>the way that and then you've you've you've affected a

1180
01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:45.400
<v Speaker 2>restitution of the ancient worldview, of the holistic worldview that

1181
01:07:45.440 --> 01:07:50.320
<v Speaker 2>we're all trying to get our hands on reenchant our worlds.

1182
01:07:50.440 --> 01:07:52.119
<v Speaker 6>Right, I mean, it was, it's right there.

1183
01:07:53.000 --> 01:07:55.400
<v Speaker 2>But you've got to shut down and shut off this

1184
01:07:55.559 --> 01:07:59.559
<v Speaker 2>part of your brain that wants to, you know, reduce

1185
01:07:59.639 --> 01:08:05.039
<v Speaker 2>everything and make it fit one to one square peg

1186
01:08:05.119 --> 01:08:09.320
<v Speaker 2>square hole into what you understand, because it's not going

1187
01:08:09.400 --> 01:08:09.719
<v Speaker 2>to happen.

1188
01:08:09.800 --> 01:08:11.039
<v Speaker 6>You need to be re educated.

1189
01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:14.079
<v Speaker 2>So that's I mean, I don't know how that ties

1190
01:08:14.159 --> 01:08:17.319
<v Speaker 2>into I know how it ties into carpentry, because like

1191
01:08:18.159 --> 01:08:20.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why, but I can tell you definitively

1192
01:08:21.079 --> 01:08:23.920
<v Speaker 2>ninety degree angle is the strongest one and that you

1193
01:08:23.960 --> 01:08:24.399
<v Speaker 2>can use.

1194
01:08:24.680 --> 01:08:24.800
<v Speaker 7>Right.

1195
01:08:25.239 --> 01:08:27.960
<v Speaker 6>I don't know why, but that's a law.

1196
01:08:28.720 --> 01:08:32.279
<v Speaker 2>That's a law that exists regardless if there are ever

1197
01:08:32.479 --> 01:08:36.119
<v Speaker 2>any ninety degree angles ever anywhere. That's a law that

1198
01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:41.079
<v Speaker 2>exists independent of its material expressions. So in that way,

1199
01:08:41.159 --> 01:08:44.560
<v Speaker 2>I understand it was really cool to go through carpentry

1200
01:08:44.720 --> 01:08:46.800
<v Speaker 2>and this time of liberal.

1201
01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:47.479
<v Speaker 6>Arts at the same time.

1202
01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:51.960
<v Speaker 2>But in terms of Christianity, I think that's a big

1203
01:08:52.039 --> 01:08:53.960
<v Speaker 2>part of it, you know, I really think it's a

1204
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:56.560
<v Speaker 2>big part of it. We don't really understand any of

1205
01:08:56.680 --> 01:08:59.800
<v Speaker 2>this stuff, and we're trying to we're trying to understand

1206
01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:03.319
<v Speaker 2>esoteric with our exoteric minds.

1207
01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:05.800
<v Speaker 6>Yes, that's not gonna happen.

1208
01:09:08.800 --> 01:09:14.640
<v Speaker 3>That's well said. I like that branch. Did you did

1209
01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:17.680
<v Speaker 3>you want to ask anything else? Was they could? Well?

1210
01:09:17.800 --> 01:09:20.279
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, maybe, and thank you so much.

1211
01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:21.079
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate that.

1212
01:09:22.640 --> 01:09:24.560
<v Speaker 9>I guess I would add to it a little bit

1213
01:09:24.640 --> 01:09:28.399
<v Speaker 9>because he's familiar with how a lodge looks, and so

1214
01:09:28.760 --> 01:09:33.479
<v Speaker 9>I've kind of always felt like lodges look more like

1215
01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:37.399
<v Speaker 9>what a church should look like, kind of for these reasons,

1216
01:09:37.399 --> 01:09:41.840
<v Speaker 9>because they kind of preserve some of those Old Testament things.

1217
01:09:42.119 --> 01:09:45.840
<v Speaker 9>So just by going and attending lodge and watching how

1218
01:09:46.479 --> 01:09:50.319
<v Speaker 9>you know the officers walk and ambulate and you know,

1219
01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:53.880
<v Speaker 9>never go between the worshipful Master and the altar. You know,

1220
01:09:54.399 --> 01:09:56.359
<v Speaker 9>there's a lot of different things you can observe and

1221
01:09:56.520 --> 01:10:00.439
<v Speaker 9>kind of glean over time, and you don't get that

1222
01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:05.439
<v Speaker 9>in church today because they've kind of sanitized everything and.

1223
01:10:05.600 --> 01:10:08.079
<v Speaker 1>Just did it's the death of detail.

1224
01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:08.199
<v Speaker 6>You know.

1225
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:13.279
<v Speaker 9>So I was just curious if he had any particular

1226
01:10:13.439 --> 01:10:17.119
<v Speaker 9>insights maybe like does he ever go to church or

1227
01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:20.840
<v Speaker 9>if he has, because you mentioned like attending Greek Orthodox

1228
01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:24.399
<v Speaker 9>I think before, which I have as well in the past,

1229
01:10:24.720 --> 01:10:27.079
<v Speaker 9>and there are some insights to be gathered there because

1230
01:10:27.159 --> 01:10:30.159
<v Speaker 9>like they still have the Econostosis, for instance, which is

1231
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:32.840
<v Speaker 9>kind of like the holy Holy Yeah.

1232
01:10:32.920 --> 01:10:34.840
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, those little those little saloon doors.

1233
01:10:35.720 --> 01:10:40.000
<v Speaker 9>Yeah. So yeah, just kind of of the opinion, like

1234
01:10:40.079 --> 01:10:42.840
<v Speaker 9>do you think that maybe in the future we're gonna

1235
01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:46.479
<v Speaker 9>because you know, think about it, magically, what the church

1236
01:10:46.840 --> 01:10:51.279
<v Speaker 9>slash temple is constructed of was actually prescribed, you know,

1237
01:10:51.760 --> 01:10:55.279
<v Speaker 9>and so we've replaced it with you know, discount drywall

1238
01:10:55.439 --> 01:10:59.560
<v Speaker 9>from the whatever and so on and so forth. So

1239
01:10:59.640 --> 01:11:03.479
<v Speaker 9>I think magically we've kind of insulated ourselves from having

1240
01:11:03.640 --> 01:11:09.600
<v Speaker 9>like an authentic religious type experience or a static experience maybe,

1241
01:11:10.039 --> 01:11:11.800
<v Speaker 9>And so I think that's something that some of the

1242
01:11:11.960 --> 01:11:16.039
<v Speaker 9>mysteries of the old days we're trying to preserve through

1243
01:11:16.119 --> 01:11:20.520
<v Speaker 9>their practices, and the Masons kind of have maybe, even

1244
01:11:20.560 --> 01:11:23.560
<v Speaker 9>if it's kind of become mundane. I think they were

1245
01:11:23.640 --> 01:11:26.119
<v Speaker 9>trying to do that in their own way as well.

1246
01:11:27.079 --> 01:11:28.520
<v Speaker 9>So I was just curious, you think we'll have like

1247
01:11:28.600 --> 01:11:33.760
<v Speaker 9>a revival of maybe a return to amples and churches

1248
01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:36.680
<v Speaker 9>looking at how they maybe should or having some type

1249
01:11:36.720 --> 01:11:39.920
<v Speaker 9>of morph of a focus on these structures.

1250
01:11:41.640 --> 01:11:43.079
<v Speaker 1>So I guess that would just be kind of a

1251
01:11:43.199 --> 01:11:43.720
<v Speaker 1>follow up.

1252
01:11:44.680 --> 01:11:51.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, well, I would say from the practical perspective,

1253
01:11:52.119 --> 01:11:55.119
<v Speaker 2>there are not many people who are able to build.

1254
01:11:55.199 --> 01:11:57.680
<v Speaker 2>We don't use the same materials anymore. To your point,

1255
01:11:57.800 --> 01:12:01.640
<v Speaker 2>we used to use stone, marble, granite, et cetera. It's

1256
01:12:01.640 --> 01:12:04.319
<v Speaker 2>a totally different way of working with material We use

1257
01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:08.600
<v Speaker 2>wood now and various you know, composites, synthetics and things

1258
01:12:08.680 --> 01:12:08.840
<v Speaker 2>like this.

1259
01:12:09.439 --> 01:12:10.319
<v Speaker 6>By the way, no.

1260
01:12:10.359 --> 01:12:12.520
<v Speaker 2>Matter what anybody tells you, there is no such thing

1261
01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:16.600
<v Speaker 2>as green building. It's all very harmful. I don't care

1262
01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:20.199
<v Speaker 2>what anybody tells you there's no such thing as green building,

1263
01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:29.680
<v Speaker 2>but the understanding of things like archways and the ornamentation, right,

1264
01:12:29.720 --> 01:12:31.840
<v Speaker 2>think of how ornate even.

1265
01:12:31.680 --> 01:12:35.600
<v Speaker 6>Up until you know, early like the first quarter.

1266
01:12:35.439 --> 01:12:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Of the twentieth century, you know, in nineteen twenty five

1267
01:12:38.960 --> 01:12:45.439
<v Speaker 2>something like that. You know, we were surrounded in beauty. Nowadays,

1268
01:12:45.720 --> 01:12:49.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, we have a very square, you know, modular

1269
01:12:50.079 --> 01:12:55.199
<v Speaker 2>kind of minimalist aesthetic. It robs our brain of being

1270
01:12:55.239 --> 01:12:59.920
<v Speaker 2>able to see what has been referred to as you know, archete.

1271
01:13:00.039 --> 01:13:05.439
<v Speaker 2>Texture is frozen music, music is liquid architecture. So it's

1272
01:13:06.760 --> 01:13:09.239
<v Speaker 2>we don't really have that anymore, you know, we don't

1273
01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:12.079
<v Speaker 2>We don't have the beauty. And so I don't know,

1274
01:13:12.399 --> 01:13:17.520
<v Speaker 2>right because even in ancient Egypt, the intricacy and the proportionality,

1275
01:13:18.079 --> 01:13:22.199
<v Speaker 2>we don't think like that anymore. We can't, you know,

1276
01:13:23.079 --> 01:13:24.560
<v Speaker 2>And so I don't know that.

1277
01:13:24.640 --> 01:13:26.119
<v Speaker 6>It'll return to to that.

1278
01:13:26.239 --> 01:13:30.319
<v Speaker 2>But my question is is how important really isn't if

1279
01:13:31.479 --> 01:13:37.279
<v Speaker 2>if something else happens, which is what we're seeing. We're

1280
01:13:37.359 --> 01:13:43.000
<v Speaker 2>seeing a resurgence in in spiritual outreach. We're seeing the

1281
01:13:43.079 --> 01:13:48.840
<v Speaker 2>first time in a long time, we're seeing uh pagan

1282
01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:54.800
<v Speaker 2>temples being built in Greece. You know, the Greek government

1283
01:13:54.880 --> 01:13:56.159
<v Speaker 2>was given a little bit of a hard time. I

1284
01:13:56.199 --> 01:13:58.439
<v Speaker 2>think I don't really know the particulars of the whole story,

1285
01:13:58.520 --> 01:14:02.479
<v Speaker 2>but uh, you know, there's this resurgence. They're building these

1286
01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:07.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, uh, these Grecian style temples and and putting

1287
01:14:07.039 --> 01:14:09.920
<v Speaker 2>on ceremonial uh in there. And on the other hand,

1288
01:14:09.960 --> 01:14:13.319
<v Speaker 2>you've got something like the edifice of Christianity, which is dwindling.

1289
01:14:13.920 --> 01:14:16.760
<v Speaker 2>It's a good thing, and Ratzinger said this, the church

1290
01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:21.800
<v Speaker 2>will have to it's become such a monstrosity, it's become

1291
01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:28.880
<v Speaker 2>such a such such a caricature, a dark twin that

1292
01:14:29.039 --> 01:14:33.880
<v Speaker 2>it has no choice but to go through the alchemical fire,

1293
01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:37.199
<v Speaker 2>which will reduce it down to its most essential components.

1294
01:14:37.279 --> 01:14:40.000
<v Speaker 6>That means we might go back to house churches. That's

1295
01:14:40.239 --> 01:14:42.159
<v Speaker 6>that's the kind I serve it, right.

1296
01:14:42.239 --> 01:14:42.439
<v Speaker 3>I have.

1297
01:14:42.680 --> 01:14:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I have an ordination, a clerical ordination, and a pre

1298
01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:48.520
<v Speaker 2>Niceen church, meaning a church that practices to the best

1299
01:14:48.560 --> 01:14:53.640
<v Speaker 2>of our ability Christianity the way it was before the

1300
01:14:53.800 --> 01:14:58.520
<v Speaker 2>Council of Nicea. Okay so, and and it's small groups

1301
01:14:58.560 --> 01:15:03.720
<v Speaker 2>of people meeting and having the sacramental, theurgic, alchemical eucharists.

1302
01:15:03.880 --> 01:15:07.119
<v Speaker 2>Because that's the Eucharist, is all those things. It's theurgic

1303
01:15:07.520 --> 01:15:11.600
<v Speaker 2>and it's al chemical. Okay, So this is what has

1304
01:15:11.680 --> 01:15:14.760
<v Speaker 2>to happen before we start understanding, you know.

1305
01:15:14.880 --> 01:15:17.239
<v Speaker 6>How to And the same thing's happened in Masonry.

1306
01:15:18.039 --> 01:15:21.479
<v Speaker 2>I am so lucky that my lodge gets to meet

1307
01:15:21.600 --> 01:15:24.920
<v Speaker 2>at you know, eighty Broadway, the Masonic Temple in Ashville.

1308
01:15:24.920 --> 01:15:27.399
<v Speaker 6>It's gorgeous. But I've been all over this.

1309
01:15:27.479 --> 01:15:29.920
<v Speaker 2>Country in the last three years to talk to brother Masons,

1310
01:15:29.960 --> 01:15:33.600
<v Speaker 2>and they have had to divest themselves of the financial

1311
01:15:33.640 --> 01:15:36.119
<v Speaker 2>burden of their beautiful, beautiful building, the meeting in the

1312
01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:37.960
<v Speaker 2>basements of vfw haws.

1313
01:15:39.000 --> 01:15:40.439
<v Speaker 6>So that's happening too.

1314
01:15:40.920 --> 01:15:44.479
<v Speaker 2>The Masonic numbers are dwindling, the Christian numbers are dwindling.

1315
01:15:44.840 --> 01:15:48.199
<v Speaker 2>But getting back to a core that I think is

1316
01:15:48.279 --> 01:15:54.439
<v Speaker 2>really important, sincere earnest people that are there really looking

1317
01:15:54.560 --> 01:15:57.800
<v Speaker 2>for the heart of what it is, I think that's

1318
01:15:57.920 --> 01:16:01.520
<v Speaker 2>probably the most important. No matter what your spiritual path is,

1319
01:16:02.600 --> 01:16:05.319
<v Speaker 2>get back down to the elements, get back down to

1320
01:16:05.399 --> 01:16:10.920
<v Speaker 2>the foundations, and that should be the fire that we

1321
01:16:11.039 --> 01:16:16.319
<v Speaker 2>crowd around warm ourselves in this you know, spiritually arid

1322
01:16:16.720 --> 01:16:20.479
<v Speaker 2>and cold terrain of the twenty first century.

1323
01:16:22.399 --> 01:16:26.000
<v Speaker 9>And may I please follow up, but once more, since

1324
01:16:26.600 --> 01:16:30.159
<v Speaker 9>his vocation was a trade skill, I think part of

1325
01:16:30.239 --> 01:16:33.720
<v Speaker 9>what we're seeing is because there are fewer people going

1326
01:16:33.800 --> 01:16:39.319
<v Speaker 9>into trades, we're also losing the ability to create these.

1327
01:16:39.199 --> 01:16:40.199
<v Speaker 1>Things over time.

1328
01:16:40.319 --> 01:16:42.199
<v Speaker 9>Right, So it kind of reminds me of like the

1329
01:16:42.319 --> 01:16:45.640
<v Speaker 9>fourth Turning kind of principle, is like maybe we'll have

1330
01:16:45.760 --> 01:16:49.039
<v Speaker 9>a renaissance of some sort of occur. But I was

1331
01:16:49.079 --> 01:16:53.720
<v Speaker 9>going to ask the question itself, however, was how important

1332
01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:57.359
<v Speaker 9>you think labor is for somebody having a sense of

1333
01:16:57.399 --> 01:17:02.520
<v Speaker 9>purpose from a cabalistic perspective. Matt has made the comment before,

1334
01:17:02.680 --> 01:17:05.960
<v Speaker 9>like you can find kabbala and everything, you know, whether

1335
01:17:05.960 --> 01:17:09.439
<v Speaker 9>it be tennis, carpentry or whatever. As long as you're

1336
01:17:09.520 --> 01:17:12.079
<v Speaker 9>into it deep, you know you're going to reveal things.

1337
01:17:12.600 --> 01:17:14.640
<v Speaker 9>And so I was just curious, if we move into

1338
01:17:14.720 --> 01:17:17.680
<v Speaker 9>this future of like a universal basic income and things

1339
01:17:17.760 --> 01:17:20.359
<v Speaker 9>like that, do you think we're going to see a

1340
01:17:20.479 --> 01:17:25.640
<v Speaker 9>further degradation of spirituality or couple kind of be forced

1341
01:17:25.960 --> 01:17:29.760
<v Speaker 9>into these small house churches, right, And that kind of

1342
01:17:29.840 --> 01:17:34.640
<v Speaker 9>reminds me of the days when they met underground, you know,

1343
01:17:34.760 --> 01:17:36.640
<v Speaker 9>And I can't remember what those were called the mith

1344
01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:37.600
<v Speaker 9>Raim's or whatever.

1345
01:17:38.359 --> 01:17:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, and you see that in Egypt too, they

1346
01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:44.279
<v Speaker 2>use particularly the mortuary temple of had chepstud has early

1347
01:17:44.439 --> 01:17:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Christian crosses on it because that's where they would have

1348
01:17:46.880 --> 01:17:49.079
<v Speaker 2>to go out to the Valley of the Kings, away

1349
01:17:49.119 --> 01:17:52.399
<v Speaker 2>from civilization, under cover of darkness and these ruins in

1350
01:17:52.560 --> 01:17:57.600
<v Speaker 2>order to practice mass. And so yeah, there's really cool,

1351
01:17:57.720 --> 01:18:00.199
<v Speaker 2>these these little hideaways, in these secret places. Is in

1352
01:18:00.279 --> 01:18:03.960
<v Speaker 2>the markers they left, they are still there, you know,

1353
01:18:04.359 --> 01:18:06.960
<v Speaker 2>after like, yeah, fifteen hundred years.

1354
01:18:07.359 --> 01:18:13.319
<v Speaker 6>But yeah, I mean, I don't really know. I do

1355
01:18:13.520 --> 01:18:13.840
<v Speaker 6>think that.

1356
01:18:14.279 --> 01:18:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, you asked, what how important is labor? Well, I

1357
01:18:16.960 --> 01:18:20.880
<v Speaker 2>say this from a cabalistic perspective. We are in malkout

1358
01:18:21.359 --> 01:18:26.760
<v Speaker 2>of Asaiah or Asia. Okay, Asia, the fourth or fifth

1359
01:18:26.920 --> 01:18:31.680
<v Speaker 2>lowest world is that it's literal translation is the world

1360
01:18:31.760 --> 01:18:32.359
<v Speaker 2>of making.

1361
01:18:33.960 --> 01:18:37.960
<v Speaker 6>This is what is meant in the Biblical Genesis. When

1362
01:18:39.479 --> 01:18:41.760
<v Speaker 6>by the sweat of your brow will you eat bread?

1363
01:18:42.319 --> 01:18:45.840
<v Speaker 6>You know, now is the time of toil. That's you

1364
01:18:46.279 --> 01:18:48.279
<v Speaker 6>must labor. You must labor here.

1365
01:18:48.319 --> 01:18:50.199
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not saying everybody has to go out and

1366
01:18:50.279 --> 01:18:53.960
<v Speaker 2>become a construction worker, but you have to embrace a

1367
01:18:54.159 --> 01:19:00.199
<v Speaker 2>life of physicality because it's labor. Just especially nowaday to

1368
01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:05.960
<v Speaker 2>not be very unhealthy physically. That's a kind of labor

1369
01:19:06.039 --> 01:19:09.720
<v Speaker 2>to keep yourself, keep your body functioning optimally.

1370
01:19:09.920 --> 01:19:16.720
<v Speaker 6>In twenty twenty five in America, so you know, especially now,

1371
01:19:16.720 --> 01:19:19.399
<v Speaker 6>a lot of us work online, sitting for hours.

1372
01:19:19.560 --> 01:19:21.800
<v Speaker 2>It's that's completely new to me. I've only ever worked

1373
01:19:21.800 --> 01:19:24.560
<v Speaker 2>as a humph. I've done manual labor my whole life,

1374
01:19:24.920 --> 01:19:26.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, And now all of a sudden, I'm sitting

1375
01:19:26.840 --> 01:19:28.760
<v Speaker 2>here eight hours a day writing and I'm like, I

1376
01:19:28.840 --> 01:19:29.880
<v Speaker 2>need to get out of this chair.

1377
01:19:31.399 --> 01:19:32.479
<v Speaker 6>These things are important.

1378
01:19:32.520 --> 01:19:36.279
<v Speaker 2>It sounds crazy, but I mean especially cabitalistically, and you

1379
01:19:36.359 --> 01:19:41.560
<v Speaker 2>want to you know, use that you know, Jewish or

1380
01:19:41.680 --> 01:19:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Judeo Christian mythology from Genesis and the expulsion from the

1381
01:19:46.079 --> 01:19:49.279
<v Speaker 2>Garden was really saying, look, you have chosen. You have

1382
01:19:49.520 --> 01:19:55.239
<v Speaker 2>chosen to enter into a world that requires toil. It's

1383
01:19:55.279 --> 01:19:59.880
<v Speaker 2>not punishment, but it's you have chosen to enter into

1384
01:20:00.039 --> 01:20:03.680
<v Speaker 2>a place that requires toil. So so yeah, I think

1385
01:20:03.800 --> 01:20:07.319
<v Speaker 2>labor is important. I think trades are important. Well, a

1386
01:20:07.359 --> 01:20:11.319
<v Speaker 2>lot of people don't understand. They think a carpentry is

1387
01:20:11.439 --> 01:20:15.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of like I think carpentry gets conflated with with

1388
01:20:15.760 --> 01:20:19.079
<v Speaker 2>general labor. You know, people that are like sweeping floors

1389
01:20:19.199 --> 01:20:22.359
<v Speaker 2>and Karen wheelbarrows. That's what you got to do when

1390
01:20:22.399 --> 01:20:24.159
<v Speaker 2>you start out. It's part of the apprenticeship.

1391
01:20:24.399 --> 01:20:25.359
<v Speaker 3>You do the grunt work.

1392
01:20:25.960 --> 01:20:32.279
<v Speaker 2>But carpentry is so incredibly intellectual. You are working with

1393
01:20:33.199 --> 01:20:37.840
<v Speaker 2>precision mathematics and then somehow you've got to get this

1394
01:20:38.039 --> 01:20:40.640
<v Speaker 2>out of the material. You've got to got to make

1395
01:20:41.359 --> 01:20:45.000
<v Speaker 2>no piece of no, no two by four straight, you know,

1396
01:20:45.079 --> 01:20:47.439
<v Speaker 2>but you've got to figure this out. You know, you're

1397
01:20:47.520 --> 01:20:53.319
<v Speaker 2>fighting with the materials and getting them into mathematical geometric

1398
01:20:53.439 --> 01:20:57.039
<v Speaker 2>shapes that a don't make you lose a lot of money,

1399
01:20:57.079 --> 01:20:59.960
<v Speaker 2>because when you screw up in carpentry, you lost mone

1400
01:21:01.079 --> 01:21:03.840
<v Speaker 2>and B that the house or building doesn't fall fall

1401
01:21:03.920 --> 01:21:06.119
<v Speaker 2>in on everybody, and then you've got a real problem

1402
01:21:06.159 --> 01:21:10.119
<v Speaker 2>on your hands. Okay, so so it's not even just

1403
01:21:11.279 --> 01:21:14.079
<v Speaker 2>the labor, but it's like the I think we are.

1404
01:21:14.199 --> 01:21:18.279
<v Speaker 2>Our modern civilization, especially the younger people, can really benefit from,

1405
01:21:19.960 --> 01:21:25.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, extracting the real time value of uh this

1406
01:21:26.800 --> 01:21:31.439
<v Speaker 2>mind body access and the interplay the intellect, and then

1407
01:21:31.520 --> 01:21:35.199
<v Speaker 2>taking what you've learned, taking that skill and applying it

1408
01:21:35.319 --> 01:21:35.960
<v Speaker 2>in real life.

1409
01:21:36.000 --> 01:21:38.800
<v Speaker 6>It will just help you be a I think a

1410
01:21:38.920 --> 01:21:40.520
<v Speaker 6>more effective person.

1411
01:21:44.399 --> 01:21:49.079
<v Speaker 3>That was great. Does anybody wanted to ask anything or

1412
01:21:49.840 --> 01:21:50.520
<v Speaker 3>set the wrap it up?

1413
01:21:50.760 --> 01:21:54.239
<v Speaker 5>I asked a question like your your treasure trove of

1414
01:21:54.399 --> 01:21:59.119
<v Speaker 5>wonderful was to the massay, and I wanted to put

1415
01:21:59.479 --> 01:22:02.319
<v Speaker 5>or give you some prompts of of the things that

1416
01:22:02.399 --> 01:22:05.720
<v Speaker 5>you've been touching on and maybe if you could put

1417
01:22:05.800 --> 01:22:10.039
<v Speaker 5>them together. Partly because of my obsession with the topics

1418
01:22:10.760 --> 01:22:15.800
<v Speaker 5>you mentioned the tetractus, I wonder if and sacred geometry.

1419
01:22:16.239 --> 01:22:17.680
<v Speaker 6>I wonder if you might.

1420
01:22:17.720 --> 01:22:23.239
<v Speaker 5>Be able to share with us how the tetragrammaton is

1421
01:22:23.439 --> 01:22:26.880
<v Speaker 5>related to the tetractus, and at least in depiction of it,

1422
01:22:27.399 --> 01:22:30.840
<v Speaker 5>and and and and so forth. I just wonder if

1423
01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:34.720
<v Speaker 5>you could build on the tetractics and the relationship to

1424
01:22:34.800 --> 01:22:37.039
<v Speaker 5>the Word of God another another thing you brought up.

1425
01:22:37.479 --> 01:22:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, oh yeah, the Word of God, very very good. Right,

1426
01:22:41.960 --> 01:22:45.000
<v Speaker 2>So that's the ineffable name of God, is the Tetragrammaton.

1427
01:22:45.039 --> 01:22:49.279
<v Speaker 2>It's also Greek that word tetra for grammaton, you know letters.

1428
01:22:52.279 --> 01:22:55.319
<v Speaker 2>So you've got the tetractys. Uh, try and do my

1429
01:22:55.399 --> 01:22:58.199
<v Speaker 2>best here for somebody that that maybe has never heard

1430
01:22:58.319 --> 01:23:00.399
<v Speaker 2>or seen it before. The tetractice is in a example

1431
01:23:00.439 --> 01:23:04.039
<v Speaker 2>of what I called before a triangular number. Okay, why

1432
01:23:04.119 --> 01:23:08.159
<v Speaker 2>because when you put it's basically any time you add

1433
01:23:09.119 --> 01:23:13.279
<v Speaker 2>in numerical sequence. If you add two to one, you

1434
01:23:13.359 --> 01:23:16.319
<v Speaker 2>get a triangular number, right, because it's one two. You

1435
01:23:16.479 --> 01:23:19.760
<v Speaker 2>add three to two to that sequence, you get a

1436
01:23:19.840 --> 01:23:23.520
<v Speaker 2>triangular number. Get you add four, you get a triangular number.

1437
01:23:23.600 --> 01:23:26.039
<v Speaker 2>So one plus two plus three plus four arranged in

1438
01:23:26.119 --> 01:23:31.520
<v Speaker 2>a triangle, those little counting pebbles gives us tetractys, which is,

1439
01:23:31.800 --> 01:23:35.600
<v Speaker 2>it gives us ten one plus two plus three plus

1440
01:23:35.680 --> 01:23:39.479
<v Speaker 2>four those add to ten. The Pythagoreans who devised the

1441
01:23:39.520 --> 01:23:43.119
<v Speaker 2>system said, when you have ten, you have everything that

1442
01:23:43.279 --> 01:23:45.960
<v Speaker 2>is right, because ten is one on a higher arc.

1443
01:23:46.199 --> 01:23:49.000
<v Speaker 2>And there's I'm giving a course right now called musical

1444
01:23:49.119 --> 01:23:53.439
<v Speaker 2>universalis music as magic, and we're you know, it's a

1445
01:23:53.600 --> 01:23:56.399
<v Speaker 2>huge part of it. Is exactly what I'm talking about now,

1446
01:23:56.840 --> 01:24:01.079
<v Speaker 2>this geometric and arithmetical overlay that allows us to use

1447
01:24:01.119 --> 01:24:05.880
<v Speaker 2>harmony and sympathy at magic. But uh so we can

1448
01:24:05.920 --> 01:24:08.479
<v Speaker 2>get into some hairy territory. I'm going to forego that

1449
01:24:08.600 --> 01:24:10.359
<v Speaker 2>because I don't want to beat anybody over the head

1450
01:24:10.359 --> 01:24:15.920
<v Speaker 2>with this stuff. But the ten therefore was the attractees

1451
01:24:16.399 --> 01:24:21.520
<v Speaker 2>was therefore their conception of the sub totality of of

1452
01:24:22.000 --> 01:24:25.399
<v Speaker 2>the essential universal forces. Same thing with the spear oft

1453
01:24:25.439 --> 01:24:28.800
<v Speaker 2>on the tree of life ten right, and that's the

1454
01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:37.279
<v Speaker 2>whole cosmos. And it just refracts or fractalizes. Uh. Now,

1455
01:24:38.840 --> 01:24:44.960
<v Speaker 2>this figure, and here's something for the Masons, was reduced

1456
01:24:45.079 --> 01:24:50.760
<v Speaker 2>in Plato's Timaus to a series of numbers integers, and

1457
01:24:50.880 --> 01:24:58.600
<v Speaker 2>they called this Plato's lambda. And along the right side right,

1458
01:24:58.840 --> 01:25:01.319
<v Speaker 2>so it's essentially you would have the tatrackt these as

1459
01:25:01.319 --> 01:25:06.680
<v Speaker 2>a full triangle, but the lambda is just extracting the

1460
01:25:07.680 --> 01:25:11.239
<v Speaker 2>apex and two sides of that triangle and not the base.

1461
01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:16.720
<v Speaker 6>So it looks like a Masonic compass. It looks like compasses. Okay.

1462
01:25:17.079 --> 01:25:19.520
<v Speaker 2>And at the top he placed he Plato gives us

1463
01:25:19.560 --> 01:25:26.319
<v Speaker 2>a series of really random they seem random numbers one, two, three, four, eight, nine,

1464
01:25:26.479 --> 01:25:27.079
<v Speaker 2>twenty seven.

1465
01:25:27.760 --> 01:25:29.199
<v Speaker 6>And what he's doing there is.

1466
01:25:29.359 --> 01:25:33.680
<v Speaker 2>He's there are two branches that start right theannas Smirtna says,

1467
01:25:34.239 --> 01:25:38.039
<v Speaker 2>beginning with unity, beginning with one at the top. You

1468
01:25:38.199 --> 01:25:42.000
<v Speaker 2>move down the right and you have the odd numbers

1469
01:25:43.359 --> 01:25:47.039
<v Speaker 2>right three nine twenty seven. Powers you move down the

1470
01:25:47.199 --> 01:25:50.760
<v Speaker 2>left side, you get the even numbers two, four, eight,

1471
01:25:52.399 --> 01:25:57.479
<v Speaker 2>So when you arrange the tetragrammaton on this, you essentially

1472
01:25:57.600 --> 01:26:00.840
<v Speaker 2>have the yode right because we leave we read Hebrew

1473
01:26:00.960 --> 01:26:04.119
<v Speaker 2>right to left, you have the yode moving down the

1474
01:26:04.239 --> 01:26:09.560
<v Speaker 2>side of uh, the odd numbers which are thought to

1475
01:26:09.680 --> 01:26:16.600
<v Speaker 2>be masculine or positive. Now yode uh is if you

1476
01:26:16.680 --> 01:26:20.119
<v Speaker 2>want to talk about it in a hermetic cabalistic context,

1477
01:26:20.960 --> 01:26:24.239
<v Speaker 2>is it represents the root of the powers of fire.

1478
01:26:26.960 --> 01:26:29.359
<v Speaker 6>And then it builds, It builds out from that yode

1479
01:26:29.439 --> 01:26:31.960
<v Speaker 6>yode hey yodhey vob yodhey vav hey.

1480
01:26:32.279 --> 01:26:35.520
<v Speaker 2>And this is the sequence of generation, and it all

1481
01:26:35.600 --> 01:26:37.560
<v Speaker 2>goes back to this really interesting thing.

1482
01:26:38.199 --> 01:26:38.640
<v Speaker 6>We call it.

1483
01:26:38.840 --> 01:26:41.640
<v Speaker 2>We call it the tetragrammaton right, yes, thank you for

1484
01:26:41.680 --> 01:26:46.800
<v Speaker 2>putting this up. We call it the tetragrammaton four lettered name.

1485
01:26:47.000 --> 01:26:48.520
<v Speaker 2>There are only three letters in that name.

1486
01:26:50.199 --> 01:26:53.279
<v Speaker 6>One of them repeats, there are only three letters, and

1487
01:26:53.359 --> 01:26:55.960
<v Speaker 6>what did we say happens in the beginning? The one

1488
01:26:56.199 --> 01:26:59.920
<v Speaker 6>is somehow three that hey.

1489
01:27:00.199 --> 01:27:04.720
<v Speaker 2>Final, This is the window through which the eye peers

1490
01:27:04.760 --> 01:27:09.720
<v Speaker 2>out and perceives universe. It is a a new it's

1491
01:27:10.239 --> 01:27:12.680
<v Speaker 2>you could even picture yodey vav he kind of like

1492
01:27:12.840 --> 01:27:16.079
<v Speaker 2>walking through this window. This this this sort of thing.

1493
01:27:16.199 --> 01:27:16.800
<v Speaker 6>It's it's.

1494
01:27:18.319 --> 01:27:23.960
<v Speaker 2>The inevitable sort of fourth that gives birth to the

1495
01:27:24.079 --> 01:27:25.720
<v Speaker 2>new fractal permutation.

1496
01:27:26.359 --> 01:27:26.479
<v Speaker 4>Uh.

1497
01:27:26.600 --> 01:27:29.359
<v Speaker 2>And this is exactly what the atractice and this cycle

1498
01:27:29.439 --> 01:27:31.640
<v Speaker 2>of generation here, this arrangement of the words, this is

1499
01:27:31.680 --> 01:27:35.680
<v Speaker 2>what is trying to u to show you. But the

1500
01:27:35.760 --> 01:27:38.159
<v Speaker 2>thing is you you really need to understand what this

1501
01:27:38.439 --> 01:27:42.520
<v Speaker 2>meant to the to the Pythagoreans and neo Pythagoreans and

1502
01:27:42.640 --> 01:27:46.439
<v Speaker 2>the Platonists before you can understand everything else.

1503
01:27:46.479 --> 01:27:47.880
<v Speaker 6>And then so you'd get.

1504
01:27:47.800 --> 01:27:52.600
<v Speaker 2>One, three, nine, twenty seven, one, two, four and eight, right,

1505
01:27:52.680 --> 01:27:56.399
<v Speaker 2>which is just it's a sequence of adding numbers to

1506
01:27:56.560 --> 01:27:59.760
<v Speaker 2>other numbers. Adding one to one, you get two, adding

1507
01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:02.680
<v Speaker 2>one to two you get three. Then you go two

1508
01:28:02.800 --> 01:28:05.600
<v Speaker 2>to the power of itself, three to the power of two,

1509
01:28:06.119 --> 01:28:08.439
<v Speaker 2>three to the power of itself, two to the power

1510
01:28:08.479 --> 01:28:14.119
<v Speaker 2>of three, squaring and cubing, and essentially, as the lambda,

1511
01:28:14.800 --> 01:28:19.199
<v Speaker 2>it shows how God moves from a point to align

1512
01:28:20.680 --> 01:28:22.560
<v Speaker 2>to a surface. Right, that's why we call it a

1513
01:28:22.640 --> 01:28:26.279
<v Speaker 2>square number creates a square right. And when you've got

1514
01:28:26.319 --> 01:28:32.119
<v Speaker 2>that little three above it, that exponent three that is cubing.

1515
01:28:32.880 --> 01:28:35.359
<v Speaker 2>So we've gone from point to line to surface to

1516
01:28:35.560 --> 01:28:40.680
<v Speaker 2>solid object. Effectively, the lambda and its expression as the

1517
01:28:41.479 --> 01:28:42.239
<v Speaker 2>tractus and.

1518
01:28:42.560 --> 01:28:46.159
<v Speaker 6>The four elements of the name are showing.

1519
01:28:45.920 --> 01:28:52.720
<v Speaker 2>How the divine literally manifests, penetrates into three dimensional space and.

1520
01:28:54.239 --> 01:28:55.199
<v Speaker 6>Becomes something.

1521
01:28:55.840 --> 01:28:57.840
<v Speaker 2>So I don't know if that really answers your question,

1522
01:28:58.000 --> 01:29:02.039
<v Speaker 2>but I've just I've been drowning in this stuff until

1523
01:29:02.079 --> 01:29:04.439
<v Speaker 2>I've learned how to swim in it. Uh So.

1524
01:29:07.399 --> 01:29:09.520
<v Speaker 5>That was that was great. Thank you for sharing that.

1525
01:29:10.359 --> 01:29:14.319
<v Speaker 5>That that brought it all together. The word the tetragrammaton,

1526
01:29:14.439 --> 01:29:16.000
<v Speaker 5>the tech Tractus and Sacred Gem.

1527
01:29:16.680 --> 01:29:19.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because the word is logos, right order, and that's

1528
01:29:19.359 --> 01:29:21.640
<v Speaker 2>exactly what the tetractus is trying to show.

1529
01:29:21.960 --> 01:29:25.439
<v Speaker 6>Order. It's how God orders the cosmos so that he

1530
01:29:25.560 --> 01:29:26.680
<v Speaker 6>can come into existence.

1531
01:29:28.199 --> 01:29:31.840
<v Speaker 5>It also reminds me of maybe you might be familiar

1532
01:29:32.000 --> 01:29:38.000
<v Speaker 5>with this. I've heard there's the Masonic equation or idea

1533
01:29:38.439 --> 01:29:41.720
<v Speaker 5>where they say that the four is equal to ten.

1534
01:29:42.760 --> 01:29:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yeah, absolutely, that's why it's called the tech tractys. Right,

1535
01:29:48.000 --> 01:29:52.640
<v Speaker 2>tetra is four in Greek, but there's but there's ten dots,

1536
01:29:52.720 --> 01:29:56.600
<v Speaker 2>but there's four lines. It's because again, four is the

1537
01:29:56.640 --> 01:30:00.640
<v Speaker 2>completion of everything, and because one plus two plus three

1538
01:30:00.680 --> 01:30:01.640
<v Speaker 2>plus four equals ten.

1539
01:30:01.720 --> 01:30:02.640
<v Speaker 6>And when if you have ten.

1540
01:30:02.800 --> 01:30:11.600
<v Speaker 9>You have everything, dopett May I ask that question real quick?

1541
01:30:11.840 --> 01:30:12.880
<v Speaker 3>Go for a branch please?

1542
01:30:13.840 --> 01:30:19.039
<v Speaker 9>Could this tet tracks also be a tool to look

1543
01:30:19.119 --> 01:30:23.000
<v Speaker 9>at when looking at the minor pip cards because they're

1544
01:30:23.000 --> 01:30:26.279
<v Speaker 9>all in tens of each suit's a ten, right, so

1545
01:30:26.439 --> 01:30:27.840
<v Speaker 9>is there anything there to glean?

1546
01:30:29.399 --> 01:30:33.960
<v Speaker 6>Yeah? I would absolutely arrange them, because again.

1547
01:30:35.199 --> 01:30:41.039
<v Speaker 2>We've got the tetractees is effectively representing the tree of

1548
01:30:41.159 --> 01:30:44.920
<v Speaker 2>life in a triangular Format's a precursor to the to

1549
01:30:45.079 --> 01:30:49.319
<v Speaker 2>the cabalistic tree of life. Okay, without the paths, it's

1550
01:30:49.600 --> 01:30:52.520
<v Speaker 2>but the thing is it's it's also drawn with paths,

1551
01:30:52.600 --> 01:30:53.439
<v Speaker 2>but they're angles.

1552
01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:56.279
<v Speaker 6>But we won't get into that.

1553
01:30:57.960 --> 01:30:59.000
<v Speaker 3>So what you do in the.

1554
01:30:59.000 --> 01:31:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Hermetic kabala is you take the pip cards and you

1555
01:31:02.079 --> 01:31:05.720
<v Speaker 2>put them by number into the sphere out It would

1556
01:31:05.760 --> 01:31:09.479
<v Speaker 2>be the same thing, right, All the aces go to Ketter,

1557
01:31:09.960 --> 01:31:12.520
<v Speaker 2>all the two's go to Hawkma, all the threes go

1558
01:31:12.640 --> 01:31:15.199
<v Speaker 2>to Bena, all the fours go to has said that,

1559
01:31:15.399 --> 01:31:18.119
<v Speaker 2>so on and so forth, Geble different all the way

1560
01:31:18.199 --> 01:31:22.199
<v Speaker 2>down to ten and malcout. Okay, so you could absolutely

1561
01:31:22.319 --> 01:31:26.359
<v Speaker 2>do that with the te tractors and the tattractice is

1562
01:31:26.479 --> 01:31:31.319
<v Speaker 2>essentially the biggest thing that I want to impress on

1563
01:31:31.399 --> 01:31:34.560
<v Speaker 2>people is that it's it's if you needed just a keyword,

1564
01:31:34.840 --> 01:31:39.479
<v Speaker 2>keywords for it's a formula of generation. That's how everything

1565
01:31:39.560 --> 01:31:40.079
<v Speaker 2>is created.

1566
01:31:43.920 --> 01:31:47.119
<v Speaker 8>Yeah. One thing I can add, maybe, Joshua, is if

1567
01:31:47.159 --> 01:31:51.079
<v Speaker 8>you look into the Tarot of Bohemians from Papus, he

1568
01:31:51.199 --> 01:31:53.880
<v Speaker 8>goes into like connecting the Tarrat with the judev of hey,

1569
01:31:54.119 --> 01:31:56.560
<v Speaker 8>like the tetragrammaton. And then if you know already that

1570
01:31:57.000 --> 01:32:00.840
<v Speaker 8>it's basically the same as the tractus, and just just

1571
01:32:00.920 --> 01:32:04.720
<v Speaker 8>make the associations yourself. I'd also want to ask something

1572
01:32:04.800 --> 01:32:07.800
<v Speaker 8>to Ike. I don't know if you ever went about

1573
01:32:07.840 --> 01:32:10.720
<v Speaker 8>the works of the Archeometer from Saint Eve's.

1574
01:32:11.800 --> 01:32:12.560
<v Speaker 3>I have the book here.

1575
01:32:12.720 --> 01:32:14.720
<v Speaker 6>It's he basically worked.

1576
01:32:14.520 --> 01:32:17.840
<v Speaker 8>With Purpose as well, who founded like Martanism and so

1577
01:32:17.920 --> 01:32:22.000
<v Speaker 8>on and on, and I found it very intriguing, very

1578
01:32:22.079 --> 01:32:24.479
<v Speaker 8>nice how it connects to what we were talking here,

1579
01:32:24.479 --> 01:32:27.600
<v Speaker 8>because the Archeometer goes about like it was basically saying

1580
01:32:27.600 --> 01:32:31.920
<v Speaker 8>Eve's idea of connecting all the like past mythologies, all

1581
01:32:31.960 --> 01:32:34.439
<v Speaker 8>the past you know, sciences and connecting everything in one,

1582
01:32:35.279 --> 01:32:38.119
<v Speaker 8>which like you mentioned, was already in the eighteen hundreds.

1583
01:32:38.479 --> 01:32:40.920
<v Speaker 6>But they really they they knew the Kabbala.

1584
01:32:41.039 --> 01:32:43.239
<v Speaker 8>So like he'll talk about Kabbala, but probably not the

1585
01:32:43.319 --> 01:32:46.479
<v Speaker 8>Kabbala that we know, because the Kabbala as we think,

1586
01:32:46.600 --> 01:32:48.640
<v Speaker 8>like tree of life with colors and whatever, the hermetic

1587
01:32:48.760 --> 01:32:52.199
<v Speaker 8>one when just came after it, right, So, but he

1588
01:32:52.279 --> 01:32:54.000
<v Speaker 8>gives a lot of nice examples, like we were talking

1589
01:32:54.000 --> 01:32:56.520
<v Speaker 8>about how you can construct things with angles, and then

1590
01:32:56.600 --> 01:32:58.920
<v Speaker 8>how maybe that angle will be connected to the same

1591
01:32:59.079 --> 01:33:02.039
<v Speaker 8>essence of a color or of a like a sound

1592
01:33:02.199 --> 01:33:05.119
<v Speaker 8>or something like. That's what the the thing shows here,

1593
01:33:05.199 --> 01:33:07.079
<v Speaker 8>like you connect let's say maybe one of the numbers

1594
01:33:07.199 --> 01:33:08.960
<v Speaker 8>is with one of the colors and one sound and

1595
01:33:09.039 --> 01:33:13.319
<v Speaker 8>one astrology sign and whatever. So but the only problem

1596
01:33:13.359 --> 01:33:16.800
<v Speaker 8>with I mean, now we kind of have yeah, that's brands. Now,

1597
01:33:16.920 --> 01:33:19.439
<v Speaker 8>now we kind of have an English translation I've found

1598
01:33:19.880 --> 01:33:24.680
<v Speaker 8>or Solar found one of our lodge friends. It's not

1599
01:33:24.720 --> 01:33:26.600
<v Speaker 8>really the best, but I don't know if you ever

1600
01:33:26.720 --> 01:33:29.359
<v Speaker 8>encountered it before, which I think you should give it.

1601
01:33:29.640 --> 01:33:32.560
<v Speaker 8>At least a skin through would be an interesting thing.

1602
01:33:33.039 --> 01:33:34.640
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeah, I haven't looked at that.

1603
01:33:34.840 --> 01:33:39.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm definitely aware of sez Or's I.

1604
01:33:41.199 --> 01:33:46.000
<v Speaker 6>I'm gonna, yeah, emphasize your point there that the the

1605
01:33:46.560 --> 01:33:46.960
<v Speaker 6>sort of.

1606
01:33:48.960 --> 01:33:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Martinist and especially the French way of utilizing the cabala

1607
01:33:54.039 --> 01:33:56.920
<v Speaker 2>is to this day very different. You'll meet people that

1608
01:33:57.079 --> 01:34:01.119
<v Speaker 2>come out of a French system, uh, never worked any

1609
01:34:01.239 --> 01:34:04.159
<v Speaker 2>anything Golden Dawn derivative, and they have almost they have

1610
01:34:04.359 --> 01:34:07.720
<v Speaker 2>very different attributions to the tarot cards.

1611
01:34:07.920 --> 01:34:10.800
<v Speaker 6>But yeah, I absolutely I will check that out. I

1612
01:34:10.840 --> 01:34:12.520
<v Speaker 6>got to put it on the queue. Thank you very much.

1613
01:34:12.960 --> 01:34:13.159
<v Speaker 3>Nice.

1614
01:34:13.279 --> 01:34:14.760
<v Speaker 8>I think I'll send you on Instagram.

1615
01:34:15.279 --> 01:34:20.560
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, thank you. But does anybody have any questions about

1616
01:34:20.560 --> 01:34:21.199
<v Speaker 6>the Golden Dawn?

1617
01:34:21.840 --> 01:34:21.960
<v Speaker 9>Oh?

1618
01:34:22.079 --> 01:34:23.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you know what, I was gonna probably leave I

1619
01:34:23.880 --> 01:34:25.520
<v Speaker 4>was probably just gonna leave that out because it's already

1620
01:34:25.520 --> 01:34:29.279
<v Speaker 4>been an hour and a half and so yea, yeah, no, no,

1621
01:34:29.560 --> 01:34:31.640
<v Speaker 4>you're good on that, dude. No, maybe I'll have you

1622
01:34:31.680 --> 01:34:33.560
<v Speaker 4>back on some other time to talk about that, but yeah,

1623
01:34:33.600 --> 01:34:36.600
<v Speaker 4>we'll just I think this conversation was better not actually getting.

1624
01:34:36.399 --> 01:34:41.279
<v Speaker 3>Into that topic. So good. Awesome, Yeah, yeah, this was great. Yeah.

1625
01:34:41.399 --> 01:34:43.479
<v Speaker 4>Was there anything else, Gin or anybody else here have

1626
01:34:43.520 --> 01:34:46.880
<v Speaker 4>anything you wanted to ask before we wrap it up? Well?

1627
01:34:47.039 --> 01:34:48.760
<v Speaker 1>I do have one, of course.

1628
01:34:50.640 --> 01:34:53.880
<v Speaker 7>So you touched on something really interesting that we've kind

1629
01:34:53.920 --> 01:34:56.720
<v Speaker 7>of played with as a speculative idea in the Gray Lodge,

1630
01:34:56.800 --> 01:34:59.279
<v Speaker 7>like the there's five of us, but there's three of

1631
01:34:59.359 --> 01:35:02.640
<v Speaker 7>us represented on the panel right now. But of the

1632
01:35:03.079 --> 01:35:05.680
<v Speaker 7>sort of aonic shift in religion, and so this is

1633
01:35:05.680 --> 01:35:08.239
<v Speaker 7>obviously a fall up to mass question, like sort of

1634
01:35:08.359 --> 01:35:16.720
<v Speaker 7>the decentralization, deinstitutionalization into these smaller networks, into these smaller nodes,

1635
01:35:16.760 --> 01:35:20.760
<v Speaker 7>you could even say, And I want your opinion on

1636
01:35:21.239 --> 01:35:27.600
<v Speaker 7>how that will also perhaps look in contemporary American magic

1637
01:35:27.840 --> 01:35:33.079
<v Speaker 7>or maybe even speculative in the near future of American magic,

1638
01:35:33.119 --> 01:35:35.920
<v Speaker 7>because you have a lot of people who many of

1639
01:35:35.960 --> 01:35:39.760
<v Speaker 7>whom or all of whom perhaps you've spoken with, talking

1640
01:35:39.920 --> 01:35:43.279
<v Speaker 7>kind of about like not necessarily that they're abandoning their

1641
01:35:43.359 --> 01:35:46.640
<v Speaker 7>system or their lodge or their you know, traditional sort

1642
01:35:46.680 --> 01:35:50.199
<v Speaker 7>of frameworks, but they are kind of going away from

1643
01:35:50.279 --> 01:35:53.840
<v Speaker 7>the dogmatic, as you said, the klipas of the institutions.

1644
01:35:53.880 --> 01:35:56.600
<v Speaker 7>They are kind of crumbling, They are destabilized, and they

1645
01:35:56.680 --> 01:36:00.439
<v Speaker 7>are not carrying forward into the future perhaps even the

1646
01:36:00.560 --> 01:36:05.000
<v Speaker 7>original or even the preserved meanings. So I just want

1647
01:36:05.039 --> 01:36:07.479
<v Speaker 7>to your appraisal of, like where do you think modern

1648
01:36:07.479 --> 01:36:09.359
<v Speaker 7>American magic is going to go? Do you see it

1649
01:36:09.880 --> 01:36:13.640
<v Speaker 7>being contained in a particular religious or traditional framework, or

1650
01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:16.319
<v Speaker 7>do you see something like new arising perhaps.

1651
01:36:19.279 --> 01:36:22.039
<v Speaker 6>Well you know, what usually takes place is a.

1652
01:36:24.640 --> 01:36:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Some form of synthesis between the push pull of diametric opposition.

1653
01:36:31.319 --> 01:36:35.640
<v Speaker 2>So where we find that in our communities, particularly regarding

1654
01:36:35.720 --> 01:36:39.039
<v Speaker 2>magic and occultism, that's going to define the boundaries the

1655
01:36:39.079 --> 01:36:42.600
<v Speaker 2>limit of the system, this opposition, and then somewhere in

1656
01:36:42.640 --> 01:36:46.239
<v Speaker 2>the middle they're going to meet and there'll be many

1657
01:36:46.319 --> 01:36:47.199
<v Speaker 2>manifestations of that.

1658
01:36:47.800 --> 01:36:53.479
<v Speaker 6>Magic in particular, it goes through these growth spurts, and

1659
01:36:54.920 --> 01:36:56.680
<v Speaker 6>for better or for worse, say, if.

1660
01:36:56.560 --> 01:36:59.399
<v Speaker 2>You look at it historically, at least since the eighteen hundreds,

1661
01:37:00.039 --> 01:37:04.520
<v Speaker 2>really happens right before a major world event that is.

1662
01:37:04.560 --> 01:37:06.239
<v Speaker 6>Not necessarily fun.

1663
01:37:06.840 --> 01:37:10.800
<v Speaker 2>Uh, but magic will kind of come to the surface

1664
01:37:11.039 --> 01:37:14.479
<v Speaker 2>because it's important, right, It's it's it's it's a way

1665
01:37:14.560 --> 01:37:17.199
<v Speaker 2>of of of healing the collective.

1666
01:37:18.640 --> 01:37:21.399
<v Speaker 6>It's an opportunity to heal the collective. It's not a

1667
01:37:21.479 --> 01:37:22.399
<v Speaker 6>way to heal.

1668
01:37:22.239 --> 01:37:25.760
<v Speaker 2>The collect because I feel like it's like anything else,

1669
01:37:26.039 --> 01:37:27.079
<v Speaker 2>it's up to the individual.

1670
01:37:27.119 --> 01:37:27.880
<v Speaker 6>How are you going to use this?

1671
01:37:29.520 --> 01:37:32.600
<v Speaker 2>Then that will determine whether or not it heals or hinders.

1672
01:37:33.159 --> 01:37:36.920
<v Speaker 2>But I would say there is a de institutionalization. But

1673
01:37:37.039 --> 01:37:43.000
<v Speaker 2>I see also in magic a thirst and a hunger

1674
01:37:43.479 --> 01:37:48.119
<v Speaker 2>for structure, and so a lot of people want to

1675
01:37:50.199 --> 01:37:53.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, kind of I don't know. It seems like

1676
01:37:53.319 --> 01:37:55.520
<v Speaker 2>they almost want to be like, they want to engage

1677
01:37:55.520 --> 01:37:57.840
<v Speaker 2>in a form of like esso territorism. Come into the

1678
01:37:57.880 --> 01:37:59.079
<v Speaker 2>Golden dawn for a little.

1679
01:37:58.880 --> 01:38:00.880
<v Speaker 6>While, see what that's all about.

1680
01:38:01.039 --> 01:38:03.720
<v Speaker 2>Structure sounds really nice, that might help. Then the thing

1681
01:38:03.840 --> 01:38:06.359
<v Speaker 2>is you get there and you're looking for this like

1682
01:38:06.479 --> 01:38:09.840
<v Speaker 2>confirmation bias. Instead of saying, oh, maybe this will change me,

1683
01:38:09.960 --> 01:38:13.239
<v Speaker 2>you're saying, oh, maybe I don't know, maybe more intellectually

1684
01:38:13.359 --> 01:38:16.720
<v Speaker 2>fat or something. And it's can be more information. Again,

1685
01:38:16.800 --> 01:38:20.920
<v Speaker 2>you can't think your way into this stuff. But there

1686
01:38:21.000 --> 01:38:23.520
<v Speaker 2>are a lot of people that are craving that structure,

1687
01:38:23.560 --> 01:38:26.439
<v Speaker 2>whether or not they can handle it. It's a different

1688
01:38:26.520 --> 01:38:28.840
<v Speaker 2>story we have as modern people. Look at us now,

1689
01:38:29.680 --> 01:38:32.760
<v Speaker 2>we're you know, a bunch of talking heads. On one hand,

1690
01:38:32.800 --> 01:38:34.720
<v Speaker 2>it's great that the internet can bring us together, and

1691
01:38:34.800 --> 01:38:37.600
<v Speaker 2>on the other hand, there's a generation of people coming

1692
01:38:37.600 --> 01:38:42.119
<v Speaker 2>into this world that are completely abstracted from traditional community

1693
01:38:42.319 --> 01:38:43.600
<v Speaker 2>and social dynamics.

1694
01:38:44.319 --> 01:38:45.359
<v Speaker 6>Okay, so people have a.

1695
01:38:45.399 --> 01:38:47.520
<v Speaker 2>Really hard time dealing with the fact that there are

1696
01:38:47.560 --> 01:38:50.760
<v Speaker 2>other people here, you know, like in my physical space.

1697
01:38:51.560 --> 01:38:55.640
<v Speaker 2>So we need to work on that because I don't

1698
01:38:55.760 --> 01:38:58.199
<v Speaker 2>I Magic will collapse if it becomes a bunch of

1699
01:38:59.119 --> 01:39:03.640
<v Speaker 2>solo practitioners that are just communicating via zoom, because the

1700
01:39:03.720 --> 01:39:09.199
<v Speaker 2>same thing, all the same eclecticism that ultimately never real

1701
01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:13.159
<v Speaker 2>never it goes to the fur, to the ends, to

1702
01:39:13.239 --> 01:39:15.640
<v Speaker 2>the degree it goes to its furthest possible extreme, and

1703
01:39:15.680 --> 01:39:20.760
<v Speaker 2>then completely dissipates rather than sort of crowding around. And

1704
01:39:20.880 --> 01:39:25.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking, you know, on a demographic level, not necessarily,

1705
01:39:26.199 --> 01:39:29.039
<v Speaker 2>I'm not speaking about individuals. I know for certain that's

1706
01:39:29.119 --> 01:39:31.279
<v Speaker 2>going to happen, but I was saying a demographic level,

1707
01:39:31.560 --> 01:39:35.840
<v Speaker 2>populations level. I see magic kind of turning into something

1708
01:39:35.920 --> 01:39:36.880
<v Speaker 2>completely different.

1709
01:39:37.960 --> 01:39:40.359
<v Speaker 6>And this A lot of this has to do with.

1710
01:39:42.079 --> 01:39:46.680
<v Speaker 2>Uh, you know, academia's sudden interest in what we do,

1711
01:39:46.880 --> 01:39:48.760
<v Speaker 2>which is not a bad thing, right. I have a

1712
01:39:48.800 --> 01:39:52.239
<v Speaker 2>lot of friends that are that are academics. I organized

1713
01:39:52.279 --> 01:39:58.239
<v Speaker 2>an academic conference in Egypt. But I would say that

1714
01:39:58.399 --> 01:40:01.399
<v Speaker 2>that somehow is going to in packed that and the

1715
01:40:02.039 --> 01:40:07.359
<v Speaker 2>sort of socially distant interactions is going to impact that.

1716
01:40:07.479 --> 01:40:10.760
<v Speaker 2>I do see people yearning for that group dynamic, but

1717
01:40:10.840 --> 01:40:13.439
<v Speaker 2>I do also find that when they get there, a

1718
01:40:13.520 --> 01:40:15.560
<v Speaker 2>lot of them, especially if they're younger, can't handle it.

1719
01:40:16.279 --> 01:40:17.960
<v Speaker 2>They can't like the gold You come into the golden

1720
01:40:18.039 --> 01:40:22.079
<v Speaker 2>dawn and it is not a democracy. It's a hierarchy. Okay,

1721
01:40:22.920 --> 01:40:24.920
<v Speaker 2>there are three chiefs in every temple and you have

1722
01:40:25.079 --> 01:40:25.760
<v Speaker 2>to do what they say.

1723
01:40:26.439 --> 01:40:29.520
<v Speaker 6>Now, we can't tell you to what diet to go

1724
01:40:29.680 --> 01:40:31.800
<v Speaker 6>on or who to hang out with, but it's still

1725
01:40:32.000 --> 01:40:34.880
<v Speaker 6>in that dynamic. There is a clear hierarchy.

1726
01:40:34.960 --> 01:40:39.680
<v Speaker 2>People don't like hierarchy anymore because they're insecure to the

1727
01:40:39.840 --> 01:40:45.479
<v Speaker 2>point where that makes them feel intimidated or uncomfortable. Whereas

1728
01:40:45.560 --> 01:40:51.720
<v Speaker 2>in previous relationships or previous iterations of communal interaction, it

1729
01:40:51.920 --> 01:40:54.119
<v Speaker 2>was nice to find a little spot where you fed in,

1730
01:40:54.319 --> 01:40:56.199
<v Speaker 2>fit in. This is where my job is, and I'll

1731
01:40:56.680 --> 01:40:59.079
<v Speaker 2>work my way up. People don't want to do that

1732
01:40:59.119 --> 01:41:01.600
<v Speaker 2>anymore to a large degree.

1733
01:41:01.960 --> 01:41:03.680
<v Speaker 6>So that's the trouble that we're going to have.

1734
01:41:03.760 --> 01:41:07.000
<v Speaker 2>They want it, but when the rubber hits the road,

1735
01:41:07.600 --> 01:41:11.039
<v Speaker 2>it's uncomfortable, and so they decide, I'm going to go

1736
01:41:11.119 --> 01:41:13.680
<v Speaker 2>and do something else, and then normally they'll don't get

1737
01:41:13.720 --> 01:41:18.920
<v Speaker 2>me wrong, some people unfortunately suffer abuse at the hands

1738
01:41:18.960 --> 01:41:22.119
<v Speaker 2>of others. But I would say, certainly, while that is

1739
01:41:22.159 --> 01:41:26.239
<v Speaker 2>an issue, you know it can happen anywhere, and I

1740
01:41:26.359 --> 01:41:28.319
<v Speaker 2>think that it's not necessarily the rule.

1741
01:41:28.479 --> 01:41:30.000
<v Speaker 6>I think it's the exception. But you.

1742
01:41:31.479 --> 01:41:33.560
<v Speaker 2>You hear from a lot of those people who get burned.

1743
01:41:33.840 --> 01:41:36.159
<v Speaker 2>You know, they go on campaigns where they're making sure

1744
01:41:36.199 --> 01:41:38.680
<v Speaker 2>everybody knows what happened, and so.

1745
01:41:41.359 --> 01:41:44.239
<v Speaker 6>I try to be a voice. It's look at golden

1746
01:41:44.279 --> 01:41:47.439
<v Speaker 6>do not perfect? Why because it's made of.

1747
01:41:47.439 --> 01:41:53.079
<v Speaker 2>People and everything people do, everything people make. There's a religion,

1748
01:41:53.159 --> 01:41:56.920
<v Speaker 2>if it's a company, if it's going to be indelibly

1749
01:41:56.960 --> 01:42:01.960
<v Speaker 2>imprinted with our highest potentialities and our lows. Okay, there's

1750
01:42:02.000 --> 01:42:07.680
<v Speaker 2>no escaping that. Welcome to duality. So welcome to the realm.

1751
01:42:09.239 --> 01:42:11.439
<v Speaker 2>So so you know what we'll see.

1752
01:42:11.880 --> 01:42:14.800
<v Speaker 6>It's an interesting question. You know, I'm not sure I

1753
01:42:14.840 --> 01:42:15.399
<v Speaker 6>have an answer.

1754
01:42:17.520 --> 01:42:20.159
<v Speaker 7>I think that's the perfect sort of way to respond

1755
01:42:20.199 --> 01:42:23.000
<v Speaker 7>to that is to just say, yeah, it's in flux,

1756
01:42:23.439 --> 01:42:26.720
<v Speaker 7>let's see what happens and let's serve with it.

1757
01:42:28.079 --> 01:42:28.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Yeah.

1758
01:42:30.079 --> 01:42:32.920
<v Speaker 9>Do you guys think that maybe that's what motivated the

1759
01:42:33.720 --> 01:42:35.800
<v Speaker 9>kind of the some of the names that were mentioned

1760
01:42:35.920 --> 01:42:40.239
<v Speaker 9>throughout Iambickolis or whatever, people like that. There's stories about

1761
01:42:40.600 --> 01:42:43.760
<v Speaker 9>how some of these folks would travel to other lands

1762
01:42:44.079 --> 01:42:46.520
<v Speaker 9>and so in that new system that they're now in

1763
01:42:47.560 --> 01:42:51.359
<v Speaker 9>they were a big fish way back in Athens or whatever.

1764
01:42:51.840 --> 01:42:54.000
<v Speaker 9>But they go to Egypt and now it's like, well,

1765
01:42:54.079 --> 01:42:56.239
<v Speaker 9>now I'm a novice again, right, So do you think

1766
01:42:56.279 --> 01:42:59.560
<v Speaker 9>that that's kind of part of the hermit journey perhaps,

1767
01:42:59.680 --> 01:43:04.119
<v Speaker 9>is to seek out contemporaries or people that you can

1768
01:43:04.159 --> 01:43:05.720
<v Speaker 9>have fellowship with or something like that.

1769
01:43:05.920 --> 01:43:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Is there an element of that there perhaps?

1770
01:43:09.560 --> 01:43:09.760
<v Speaker 8>Yeah?

1771
01:43:10.119 --> 01:43:14.119
<v Speaker 2>And I mean, don't underestimate the support system it can

1772
01:43:14.199 --> 01:43:18.159
<v Speaker 2>give you. You know, when I was a kid, I

1773
01:43:18.359 --> 01:43:22.840
<v Speaker 2>used to see things people in my hallway, you know,

1774
01:43:23.159 --> 01:43:26.560
<v Speaker 2>probably in like third grade, this stuff started really happening,

1775
01:43:26.600 --> 01:43:29.319
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't like it. I hated it, so I

1776
01:43:29.439 --> 01:43:32.439
<v Speaker 2>blocked it out. And then years later when I undergo

1777
01:43:32.760 --> 01:43:35.880
<v Speaker 2>a gold initiation, lo and behold the doors are blown

1778
01:43:35.920 --> 01:43:37.800
<v Speaker 2>off and all this stuff starts happening again.

1779
01:43:38.880 --> 01:43:42.000
<v Speaker 6>So, you know, I'm waking up in the middle of

1780
01:43:42.000 --> 01:43:42.399
<v Speaker 6>the night.

1781
01:43:42.399 --> 01:43:47.520
<v Speaker 2>And there are people in my room, you know, the figures, entities, whatever,

1782
01:43:48.159 --> 01:43:52.279
<v Speaker 2>with a visible appearance. I then go to like a

1783
01:43:52.359 --> 01:43:57.159
<v Speaker 2>support group of between three to ten to twenty people

1784
01:43:57.279 --> 01:44:03.479
<v Speaker 2>that all have different experiences, different backgrounds, and all have

1785
01:44:03.600 --> 01:44:07.720
<v Speaker 2>a firm, rather firm footing in this stuff, and I

1786
01:44:07.800 --> 01:44:09.119
<v Speaker 2>can use them as a sounding board.

1787
01:44:09.199 --> 01:44:11.880
<v Speaker 6>Hey, should I go to a mental hospital? You know,

1788
01:44:12.119 --> 01:44:15.159
<v Speaker 6>like what what needs to be Am I losing my mind?

1789
01:44:15.239 --> 01:44:17.760
<v Speaker 2>And then you'll have people kind of you know, because

1790
01:44:17.920 --> 01:44:21.560
<v Speaker 2>the average person is going to might freak out to

1791
01:44:21.640 --> 01:44:23.960
<v Speaker 2>stuff like that, you know, and might really my first

1792
01:44:24.000 --> 01:44:27.479
<v Speaker 2>inclination was like I'm going crazy, but it was ultimately

1793
01:44:27.520 --> 01:44:31.359
<v Speaker 2>through the support given to me by people in my

1794
01:44:31.479 --> 01:44:35.319
<v Speaker 2>first Golden Dawn Temple. The whole temple, right like a

1795
01:44:35.439 --> 01:44:39.600
<v Speaker 2>village really really talked me through that stuff. And now

1796
01:44:39.680 --> 01:44:42.680
<v Speaker 2>it's to the point where you know, I can control

1797
01:44:42.760 --> 01:44:49.520
<v Speaker 2>it instead of it really being a consistently jarring experience

1798
01:44:49.560 --> 01:44:53.520
<v Speaker 2>for me. So I think support structures are are another

1799
01:44:53.600 --> 01:44:58.199
<v Speaker 2>way of apprenticing yourself to a path because ultimately, like

1800
01:44:59.600 --> 01:45:03.560
<v Speaker 2>it's not just about submission, it's to your point, it's

1801
01:45:03.640 --> 01:45:05.840
<v Speaker 2>very much about remaining an eternal student.

1802
01:45:07.239 --> 01:45:09.760
<v Speaker 6>But you should have I personally think you should have

1803
01:45:09.880 --> 01:45:10.520
<v Speaker 6>many teachers.

1804
01:45:15.239 --> 01:45:16.960
<v Speaker 8>Some would say at least one hundred and eight.

1805
01:45:20.319 --> 01:45:20.640
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

1806
01:45:20.640 --> 01:45:25.600
<v Speaker 6>I don't have that much time, or I mean it

1807
01:45:25.680 --> 01:45:27.119
<v Speaker 6>depends who you're caught as a teacher.

1808
01:45:27.199 --> 01:45:29.039
<v Speaker 8>Right, if you go outside and you look at a

1809
01:45:29.119 --> 01:45:30.680
<v Speaker 8>tree and okay, you learn something.

1810
01:45:30.760 --> 01:45:33.039
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, maybe I can rank up that number.

1811
01:45:33.640 --> 01:45:35.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and and this and in this world right, there

1812
01:45:35.880 --> 01:45:38.199
<v Speaker 2>are so many teachers from beyond the grave, you know.

1813
01:45:38.359 --> 01:45:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Big one for me was Deonnfortune and uh, you know,

1814
01:45:42.720 --> 01:45:47.159
<v Speaker 2>I visited her grave in Glastonbury probably about six years ago,

1815
01:45:47.279 --> 01:45:49.600
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I kind of did it like, oh cool,

1816
01:45:49.640 --> 01:45:51.399
<v Speaker 2>I've been reading her books for years. I learned a

1817
01:45:51.479 --> 01:45:53.079
<v Speaker 2>lot about it. And then I get there and I

1818
01:45:53.239 --> 01:45:56.079
<v Speaker 2>just got so incredibly overwhelmed emotionally.

1819
01:45:56.119 --> 01:45:58.039
<v Speaker 6>I was just bawling. I didn't even know why. It

1820
01:45:58.199 --> 01:46:01.800
<v Speaker 6>was like despite myself, you know.

1821
01:46:01.960 --> 01:46:05.199
<v Speaker 2>And and yeah, I realized probably afterward that like, this

1822
01:46:05.319 --> 01:46:06.399
<v Speaker 2>person is a teacher to me.

1823
01:46:07.720 --> 01:46:09.439
<v Speaker 6>I never met him, you know, never met her.

1824
01:46:11.039 --> 01:46:16.399
<v Speaker 4>Well I could understand that. Yeah, I guess everybody jin

1825
01:46:16.640 --> 01:46:19.199
<v Speaker 4>or mad or Ethan. You guys, good a breach too.

1826
01:46:20.840 --> 01:46:23.279
<v Speaker 4>We'll wrap it up then, yeah, sorry.

1827
01:46:23.079 --> 01:46:25.199
<v Speaker 3>Well thank you for having me on guys. Hell yeah, great,

1828
01:46:25.319 --> 01:46:27.720
<v Speaker 3>hell yeah, no, that was awesome. Sorry. We never did

1829
01:46:27.760 --> 01:46:29.520
<v Speaker 3>get to the Golden Door, but like I said, I'm

1830
01:46:29.600 --> 01:46:31.199
<v Speaker 3>quite happy with the way the show went. Anyway. I

1831
01:46:31.199 --> 01:46:32.960
<v Speaker 3>thought that was a good look.

1832
01:46:33.880 --> 01:46:36.760
<v Speaker 6>I say this a lot. I've been called many things

1833
01:46:36.800 --> 01:46:38.279
<v Speaker 6>in my life, but never brief.

1834
01:46:38.520 --> 01:46:43.359
<v Speaker 3>So that's great. It's awesome stuff. Jin real quick, do

1835
01:46:43.399 --> 01:46:45.920
<v Speaker 3>you want to remind everybody where they could find your stuff?

1836
01:46:46.760 --> 01:46:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Sure? So I want to say thank you so much.

1837
01:46:48.720 --> 01:46:51.640
<v Speaker 7>I this was honestly like one of the reasons I

1838
01:46:52.079 --> 01:46:55.159
<v Speaker 7>started podcasting was to have this conversation. And I've had

1839
01:46:55.399 --> 01:46:57.680
<v Speaker 7>many milestones like Nick and I have done lots of

1840
01:46:57.760 --> 01:47:02.279
<v Speaker 7>cool things, So thank you Nick. And also bringing and

1841
01:47:02.760 --> 01:47:05.039
<v Speaker 7>obviously it's led to open the door to bring people

1842
01:47:05.079 --> 01:47:09.000
<v Speaker 7>onto my show, so including Matt and Joshua and also

1843
01:47:09.079 --> 01:47:11.920
<v Speaker 7>the group show. We do the Gray Lodge, Speculative Cabala,

1844
01:47:12.000 --> 01:47:15.920
<v Speaker 7>speculative of colle Chakra, and speculative Narcissism every Friday night

1845
01:47:16.079 --> 01:47:19.039
<v Speaker 7>live on X So thank you guys so much.

1846
01:47:19.119 --> 01:47:21.119
<v Speaker 1>Obviously, Joshua had the branch.

1847
01:47:21.640 --> 01:47:24.279
<v Speaker 7>I will apologize because he was late because of me,

1848
01:47:24.640 --> 01:47:27.199
<v Speaker 7>So it was nothing to do with him or his punctuation.

1849
01:47:27.399 --> 01:47:30.159
<v Speaker 7>It was because I was late, So I apologize for that.

1850
01:47:30.279 --> 01:47:32.880
<v Speaker 7>But Joshua just had an episode drop on my show

1851
01:47:33.079 --> 01:47:36.439
<v Speaker 7>on Claymore So the Kabbala of Claymore. We go through

1852
01:47:36.960 --> 01:47:40.000
<v Speaker 7>the anime series and the manga series, so that's called

1853
01:47:40.039 --> 01:47:42.720
<v Speaker 7>Faint Smile. I have an episode with Solar, our other

1854
01:47:42.840 --> 01:47:45.479
<v Speaker 7>co host, and the Gray Lodge dropping either today or

1855
01:47:45.520 --> 01:47:50.119
<v Speaker 7>tomorrow morning with Gregory Peters who wrote the new a

1856
01:47:50.279 --> 01:47:54.319
<v Speaker 7>on Tantra and I have lots lots and lots coming

1857
01:47:54.399 --> 01:47:58.359
<v Speaker 7>up with lots of interesting authors and so thank you

1858
01:47:58.479 --> 01:48:00.760
<v Speaker 7>so much, and of course thank you Matt for being

1859
01:48:00.800 --> 01:48:03.199
<v Speaker 7>our webmaster and building out our site and all the

1860
01:48:03.600 --> 01:48:05.359
<v Speaker 7>hard work you do for the Great Lodge and keeping

1861
01:48:05.399 --> 01:48:07.560
<v Speaker 7>our YouTube channel like and subscribe and if you want

1862
01:48:07.600 --> 01:48:11.119
<v Speaker 7>to follow me at wokongribornwuk O and g Reborn on

1863
01:48:11.399 --> 01:48:13.960
<v Speaker 7>Twitter and then the show at Threshold Saints and anywhere you.

1864
01:48:13.960 --> 01:48:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Get your podcasts. So thank you guys, all the whole

1865
01:48:16.840 --> 01:48:19.239
<v Speaker 1>panel and especially I of course thank you.

1866
01:48:20.439 --> 01:48:22.279
<v Speaker 3>Thank you Ja. I'm glad you made it today, sir

1867
01:48:23.000 --> 01:48:24.359
<v Speaker 3>and Matt Moore. What is going on?

1868
01:48:24.479 --> 01:48:24.560
<v Speaker 6>Man?

1869
01:48:24.600 --> 01:48:25.960
<v Speaker 3>Let everybody know where they can find you a site

1870
01:48:25.960 --> 01:48:28.319
<v Speaker 3>and everything, for sure.

1871
01:48:28.560 --> 01:48:31.600
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, thanks a lot. Cho is a very intriguing conversation.

1872
01:48:31.920 --> 01:48:33.960
<v Speaker 8>I perspond with a lot of stuff. You the way

1873
01:48:33.960 --> 01:48:36.640
<v Speaker 8>you think and Swan so very good. Always nice to

1874
01:48:37.079 --> 01:48:40.000
<v Speaker 8>have these type of things. And yeah, everyone can find

1875
01:48:40.039 --> 01:48:45.880
<v Speaker 8>me at at Metmore nineteen. That's going to be on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, Twitch,

1876
01:48:46.279 --> 01:48:49.560
<v Speaker 8>maybe some other place. There's also my website that's Cabala

1877
01:48:49.640 --> 01:48:52.439
<v Speaker 8>dot com k A A B A L A h

1878
01:48:52.640 --> 01:48:55.319
<v Speaker 8>dot com. A lot of stuff going on there. Just

1879
01:48:55.399 --> 01:48:59.279
<v Speaker 8>made some updates this week is also just opening myself

1880
01:48:59.359 --> 01:49:01.600
<v Speaker 8>more to reading because now it's much faster to do it.

1881
01:49:02.560 --> 01:49:04.840
<v Speaker 6>And so if you are interested in that, just DM

1882
01:49:04.920 --> 01:49:06.119
<v Speaker 6>me any of those.

1883
01:49:07.520 --> 01:49:11.880
<v Speaker 3>Thanks about me of course, thank you very much and Indigo, sir.

1884
01:49:13.680 --> 01:49:15.960
<v Speaker 5>Piece that was awesome, Mike, thank you so much for

1885
01:49:16.079 --> 01:49:19.359
<v Speaker 5>sharing all your knowledge and wisdom. I really appreciated that

1886
01:49:19.560 --> 01:49:22.880
<v Speaker 5>and everyone. I appreciate you guys so much. Easy to

1887
01:49:22.960 --> 01:49:26.279
<v Speaker 5>find on all the social media, and I appreciate people

1888
01:49:26.359 --> 01:49:31.920
<v Speaker 5>reaching out and communicating and articles dropping soon and writing frequently.

1889
01:49:32.119 --> 01:49:33.479
<v Speaker 5>So yeah, again, thanks so much.

1890
01:49:33.560 --> 01:49:36.800
<v Speaker 3>I thank you Ethan. I appreciate you making it again.

1891
01:49:36.840 --> 01:49:40.079
<v Speaker 3>It was early for you and the branch. What is

1892
01:49:40.239 --> 01:49:40.520
<v Speaker 3>up sir?

1893
01:49:42.000 --> 01:49:43.720
<v Speaker 9>Thank you for hosting Nick.

1894
01:49:43.800 --> 01:49:45.720
<v Speaker 1>It's a great pleasure to meet you again.

1895
01:49:45.880 --> 01:49:50.079
<v Speaker 9>Ike Jin did a great outro for me, so all

1896
01:49:50.119 --> 01:49:52.880
<v Speaker 9>I could add to that is I did recently do

1897
01:49:53.239 --> 01:49:59.520
<v Speaker 9>a blurb on Symbolic Studies soon to premiere video and

1898
01:49:59.560 --> 01:50:04.000
<v Speaker 9>Stagitty areas Symbolism, so check him out on Twitter and

1899
01:50:04.159 --> 01:50:08.800
<v Speaker 9>YouTube and does some really good work that's a wonderful

1900
01:50:08.840 --> 01:50:09.680
<v Speaker 9>gathering of people.

1901
01:50:09.960 --> 01:50:11.600
<v Speaker 1>I really appreciate being a part of this.

1902
01:50:11.720 --> 01:50:15.800
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for the invitation, of course, thank

1903
01:50:15.800 --> 01:50:16.439
<v Speaker 3>you for making it.

1904
01:50:16.760 --> 01:50:21.159
<v Speaker 4>And finally, if you want to let everybody know where

1905
01:50:21.159 --> 01:50:22.520
<v Speaker 4>they can find all your stuff again.

1906
01:50:23.640 --> 01:50:25.520
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, thanks so much guys for having me on.

1907
01:50:27.760 --> 01:50:29.800
<v Speaker 2>Truly, thank you for the work that you continue to

1908
01:50:29.880 --> 01:50:32.479
<v Speaker 2>do and to give to our communities some valuable Thanks

1909
01:50:32.520 --> 01:50:35.000
<v Speaker 2>everybody that tuned in for the live stream. If you

1910
01:50:35.039 --> 01:50:37.760
<v Speaker 2>want to know anything more about me, go to Ike

1911
01:50:37.840 --> 01:50:40.279
<v Speaker 2>Baker dot com I K E B A K E

1912
01:50:40.640 --> 01:50:43.000
<v Speaker 2>R dot com Again, use the chat widget in the

1913
01:50:43.039 --> 01:50:45.800
<v Speaker 2>bottom right corner. I've got a mailing list you can

1914
01:50:45.840 --> 01:50:48.680
<v Speaker 2>sign up for there. We actually just went through the

1915
01:50:48.840 --> 01:50:54.119
<v Speaker 2>Theology of Numbers. It's it's totally free. The emails are

1916
01:50:54.159 --> 01:50:58.199
<v Speaker 2>digestible that go out every Thursday. I've got courses going

1917
01:50:58.239 --> 01:51:02.359
<v Speaker 2>on every quarter. The next one coming up is Techniques

1918
01:51:02.359 --> 01:51:05.319
<v Speaker 2>of Greco Egyptian Theorgy. It's going to be a distillation

1919
01:51:05.720 --> 01:51:07.680
<v Speaker 2>of the work that I did in Egypt with that

1920
01:51:08.079 --> 01:51:11.560
<v Speaker 2>group of practitioners. So I'll be teaching that via zoom

1921
01:51:13.199 --> 01:51:15.720
<v Speaker 2>and you can reach out to me and sign up

1922
01:51:15.760 --> 01:51:19.199
<v Speaker 2>for that. And yeah, check out my podcast, I've got

1923
01:51:19.279 --> 01:51:21.680
<v Speaker 2>some solid guests. You want to learn more about the

1924
01:51:21.720 --> 01:51:25.239
<v Speaker 2>Golden Dawn. I've got two episodes up there about the

1925
01:51:25.359 --> 01:51:27.319
<v Speaker 2>history of the Golden Dawn, and I did an interview

1926
01:51:27.399 --> 01:51:31.680
<v Speaker 2>with my greatly honored chiefs Chicken, Tabatha Sisera up there,

1927
01:51:31.720 --> 01:51:34.039
<v Speaker 2>and you can hear about like you know them, with Israel,

1928
01:51:34.079 --> 01:51:37.560
<v Speaker 2>Regorty and and Grady McMurtry and things like that.

1929
01:51:37.720 --> 01:51:41.960
<v Speaker 6>So go check that out, write to me whatever you like,

1930
01:51:42.199 --> 01:51:43.840
<v Speaker 6>and I think that's it.

1931
01:51:44.119 --> 01:51:48.079
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, thanks guys, check out that episode myself. Yeah nice, Yeah,

1932
01:51:48.319 --> 01:51:51.520
<v Speaker 4>that's pretty cool man. I again, thank you so much

1933
01:51:51.560 --> 01:51:54.560
<v Speaker 4>for coming on it. Just really, I mean again, sorry

1934
01:51:54.600 --> 01:51:56.279
<v Speaker 4>we didn't get into the Golden Down. I'm glad I

1935
01:51:56.279 --> 01:51:58.720
<v Speaker 4>asked about your books at first, but honestly, the show

1936
01:51:58.760 --> 01:52:00.800
<v Speaker 4>went better than I could have asked or really am

1937
01:52:00.920 --> 01:52:02.880
<v Speaker 4>very proud to put the show out on my listeners.

1938
01:52:04.520 --> 01:52:06.680
<v Speaker 4>Hopefully we'll get you back on again in the future.

1939
01:52:06.720 --> 01:52:09.319
<v Speaker 4>But again, there was an awesome conversation, and I thank

1940
01:52:09.319 --> 01:52:11.439
<v Speaker 4>you everybody who came and made it again. It was

1941
01:52:11.479 --> 01:52:14.000
<v Speaker 4>a little earlier, different time zones for everybody here, but

1942
01:52:14.640 --> 01:52:17.319
<v Speaker 4>we made it happen and I still think it's fucking wild.

1943
01:52:17.359 --> 01:52:18.640
<v Speaker 4>Have we both moved from New York to.

1944
01:52:20.239 --> 01:52:21.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was gonna say, you know, we should do

1945
01:52:21.920 --> 01:52:24.359
<v Speaker 2>we should go to Pilot Mountain, Yoh yeah, yeah, it

1946
01:52:24.439 --> 01:52:25.880
<v Speaker 2>was it the Yeah, I told you right, I think

1947
01:52:25.920 --> 01:52:26.359
<v Speaker 2>I hit you up.

1948
01:52:26.399 --> 01:52:27.439
<v Speaker 3>I was like, oh, have you been there? Because I

1949
01:52:27.479 --> 01:52:29.319
<v Speaker 3>want to go there and record that shit and film

1950
01:52:29.359 --> 01:52:30.159
<v Speaker 3>it and just check it out.

1951
01:52:30.239 --> 01:52:33.119
<v Speaker 4>So it's like two hours from me, I'll go, yeah, yeah,

1952
01:52:33.199 --> 01:52:35.479
<v Speaker 4>we definitely all right, So definitely think we'll definitely talk

1953
01:52:35.479 --> 01:52:36.239
<v Speaker 4>about that in the future.

1954
01:52:36.239 --> 01:52:38.560
<v Speaker 3>But man, for sure for sure. But uh yeah, and

1955
01:52:38.640 --> 01:52:40.359
<v Speaker 3>thank you everybody in the chat. I don't know if

1956
01:52:40.399 --> 01:52:41.760
<v Speaker 3>I think there were some new faces in there.

1957
01:52:41.760 --> 01:52:43.479
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if it was from you maybe advertising

1958
01:52:43.520 --> 01:52:45.880
<v Speaker 4>it on your end or some listeners, but there were

1959
01:52:45.880 --> 01:52:47.239
<v Speaker 4>some people in there I don't think I've seen before.

1960
01:52:47.279 --> 01:52:49.640
<v Speaker 3>So I appreciate you jumping on whoever. It is awesome.

1961
01:52:49.880 --> 01:52:52.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, and uh again, that's why we go live.

1962
01:52:52.079 --> 01:52:54.760
<v Speaker 4>I do appreciate the comments, regardless if they're good or

1963
01:52:54.760 --> 01:52:57.880
<v Speaker 4>bad or different opinions. I do appreciate at least people

1964
01:52:58.159 --> 01:53:00.600
<v Speaker 4>jumping in and trying to give their idea on the topic.

1965
01:53:01.119 --> 01:53:03.800
<v Speaker 3>Uh yeah. And that's the end of another one and

1966
01:53:03.920 --> 01:53:06.079
<v Speaker 3>until the next one, everybody be well later