1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,799 Speaker 1: What is up, fellas Echoes. 2 00:00:06,839 --> 00:00:08,359 Speaker 2: I am Dan Valley coming at you with the one, 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,560 the only, this certified, fantabulous mister Grant Hughes. We are 4 00:00:12,599 --> 00:00:15,359 here to finally record the Knicks off season look ahead. 5 00:00:15,359 --> 00:00:17,719 If you're looking for coaching talk, we did something separate 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,559 on that because that will or already has been dated 7 00:00:20,839 --> 00:00:22,199 by this point, so you can. 8 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:23,519 Speaker 1: Go check that out, Grant. 9 00:00:23,879 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 2: Before we belly flop into the Knicks's offseason vitals, how 10 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:27,600 the heck are you doing? 11 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,879 Speaker 3: I know this is related to the coaching thing that 12 00:00:29,879 --> 00:00:31,960 we're not going to talk about, but you know, we 13 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:35,399 did ask around to a lot of other podcast hosts 14 00:00:35,399 --> 00:00:37,159 that were already employed to see if they could do 15 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:39,719 the next offseason preview, but we were rebuffed at every turn. 16 00:00:39,799 --> 00:00:41,159 So you're stuck. You're stuck with us. 17 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 2: I think next time we should maybe go look at 18 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,799 more up and comers that are more likely to say yes, 19 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,640 like a Bill Simmons, like somebody's really trying to cut 20 00:00:47,679 --> 00:00:49,240 her to even get their start might be one. 21 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know it, just we need someone to innovate. Really, 22 00:00:53,039 --> 00:00:53,880 let's I mean. 23 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 2: The guiding question here is, though, as we get into this, 24 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,600 is how close are the Knicks to winning an NBA title. 25 00:00:58,640 --> 00:00:59,119 Speaker 1: They made it to the. 26 00:00:59,119 --> 00:01:01,479 Speaker 2: Eastern Commerce Finals, and then they fired their head coach, 27 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,719 which suggests that they believe they're pretty darn close, and 28 00:01:04,719 --> 00:01:06,799 that's not I mean, you made it to the Eastern 29 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,760 Conference finals. In theory, you're pretty darn close. The East 30 00:01:09,799 --> 00:01:11,920 is only gonna get more wide open. But I think 31 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:13,599 the danger here, and this is the bigger thing we're 32 00:01:13,599 --> 00:01:15,200 going to talk about, is to think that it was 33 00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:18,640 just the head coach that was the problem, and Tibbs 34 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,200 was a problem. I don't think he was the biggest problem. 35 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:22,959 Being able to ask yourself, well, how do they get 36 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:27,200 better from here? Leading us into their offseason vitals, which 37 00:01:27,239 --> 00:01:30,040 are it's gonna get a little sticky, folks. So they 38 00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:33,040 project to start out around three point eight million below 39 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,480 the first apron, and that's about eight million below the 40 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,280 second apron. They must stay below the second apron to 41 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,200 use the Mini mid level exception of five point seven 42 00:01:42,239 --> 00:01:45,200 million dollars. That is their best spending tool if they 43 00:01:45,239 --> 00:01:46,079 can access it. 44 00:01:46,439 --> 00:01:46,799 Speaker 1: They have. 45 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: This projection includes eleven players under contract, so if you 46 00:01:50,439 --> 00:01:54,000 fill out the roster with minimums like you don't have 47 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,159 the full Mini mid level exception to use. 48 00:01:56,599 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: Now they do have that PJ. 49 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: Tucker non guaranteed deal that will shave money off, but 50 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,159 then you're still creating an open roster spot. 51 00:02:04,159 --> 00:02:04,599 Speaker 1: And PJ. 52 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,159 Speaker 2: Tucker's contract can be valuable because if the Knicks make 53 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,639 a trade, they basically have to send out more money 54 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,360 than they're receiving, and so just throwing PJ. Tucker's minimum 55 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,120 into the equation is the way to do that. They 56 00:02:16,159 --> 00:02:18,879 do not have a real first round pick to trade. 57 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:20,960 If I hear one other person pitch me on the 58 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,400 Wizard's first rounder is having value. It is top ten protected, 59 00:02:24,719 --> 00:02:26,800 and then it turns into two seconds. You can bet 60 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,879 on those seconds being in the thirties. That's great. It's 61 00:02:29,879 --> 00:02:32,680 not a first round pick. They can also trade swaps 62 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,360 original swaps. They could trade swaps of the swaps if 63 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:36,159 anyone's interested. 64 00:02:36,159 --> 00:02:37,599 Speaker 1: But they have swaps they. 65 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 2: Could deal in twenty six, twenty thirty, and twenty thirty two. 66 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:43,960 Before we kind of dig into kind of extensions targets, 67 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,560 big questions, what do you think of the idea, like 68 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:50,000 if you're a team that has extra first rounders, and 69 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,280 then also what do you think about this from the 70 00:02:51,319 --> 00:02:54,800 Knicks's perspective, if they forget about the twenty twenty six swap, 71 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:56,840 the Nigs are gonna be too good. But like, if 72 00:02:56,879 --> 00:02:58,680 you're the Nets, or if you're a team that's just 73 00:02:58,719 --> 00:03:01,360 at like the Oklahoma City a point, would you give 74 00:03:01,439 --> 00:03:03,680 up a real first round pick for the right to 75 00:03:03,719 --> 00:03:06,159 swap with the Knicks in twenty thirty or twenty thirty two, 76 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,879 like a more imminent first rounder like Brooklyn where they 77 00:03:08,879 --> 00:03:11,159 have four first round picks and this year's or like 78 00:03:11,159 --> 00:03:13,039 are you giving twenty seven and twenty eight or whatever 79 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,199 it is that they have to get like a distant 80 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:16,400 swap from the Knicks. 81 00:03:16,719 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 3: I think I think I would, but yeah, it need 82 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,879 to be I don't think I give up a pick 83 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,199 I was confident was gonna be a lottery pick for example, 84 00:03:25,199 --> 00:03:28,240 obviously not like a top you know, somewhere in the twenties. 85 00:03:28,319 --> 00:03:30,759 I think makes sense just to bet on the upside, 86 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,759 and it would probably need to be a team like 87 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,159 the ones you mentioned that have like just they have 88 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,680 a volume of assets, and then the move from there 89 00:03:38,759 --> 00:03:41,360 is to be like how do we turn these into 90 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:46,039 like fewer that have like massive upside Potentially, like if 91 00:03:46,039 --> 00:03:49,280 you could get an unprotected swap in twenty thirty from 92 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,759 or thirty two from the Knicks, Like maybe that's a 93 00:03:51,919 --> 00:03:54,319 maybe that's the number one pick or whatever, Like I'm 94 00:03:54,319 --> 00:03:57,000 giving up stuff in the twenties for that, Like who knows, right, 95 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,840 I think I think that's about the range. But yeah, 96 00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:03,159 I if it's like just I don't know, I don't 97 00:04:03,159 --> 00:04:04,759 know why they're on my mind, but like the Spurs 98 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:07,879 have fourteen right in this draft in addition to number two. 99 00:04:07,919 --> 00:04:11,159 It's like, I think I'd rather just have fourteen probably, 100 00:04:11,319 --> 00:04:12,199 But if they. 101 00:04:12,039 --> 00:04:14,719 Speaker 2: Actually Like in theory, though, what if the Knicks, And 102 00:04:14,759 --> 00:04:16,759 this can go for any team where swap and you 103 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,560 probably want to be a good Like if you're the Bulls, 104 00:04:18,879 --> 00:04:21,120 you really think you're gonna be better than anyone in twenty thirty? 105 00:04:21,199 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 3: Like probably not, you'll be better than like roughly half 106 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,439 the teams in the league. But that's the best you 107 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:25,759 can do. 108 00:04:26,199 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 2: I am curious as to, like, even if it's in 109 00:04:28,079 --> 00:04:30,360 a trade where you're like trying to extract value for 110 00:04:30,439 --> 00:04:32,279 teams to send to another team, Like if they were 111 00:04:32,319 --> 00:04:35,079 just including the twenty thirty and twenty twenty thirty two 112 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,160 swaps on the table, I really feel like you could 113 00:04:38,199 --> 00:04:41,560 get like teams to facilitate something you're not going to 114 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,120 get to your point, Like you're not gonna get the 115 00:04:43,199 --> 00:04:44,560 Jazz's number five pick for that. 116 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:45,759 Speaker 1: I'm not under that delusion. 117 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 2: But I think when you look at the way the 118 00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:50,040 Knicks are built right now, they're not old, but they're 119 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,360 not super young. They can keep this core intact, but 120 00:04:52,399 --> 00:04:54,319 like they're gonna run into in a couple of years, 121 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,160 if you know, looking at the Karl Anthony Towns and 122 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,639 ogn andob Salary specifically like they are and mchal Bridges 123 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,600 coming up on an extension we're gonna talk about that, 124 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:06,399 they are gonna have some realities that will recap them logistically. 125 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,319 So I think that those swaps are probably worth more 126 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,680 than people have credited. But the Knicks also, it depends 127 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,680 on what the coaching situation and their ethos is. But 128 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,759 what is actually moving those swaps for current first round 129 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,480 picks actually do. Yes, it's cost controlled talent, but are 130 00:05:21,519 --> 00:05:23,160 you gonna play that talent. 131 00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: It's not like you try to develop Pukcom. 132 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,360 Speaker 2: Dottie and Tyler Kohlik and that was probably I'm not 133 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:29,120 saying either one of them were the answers, but I 134 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,160 think that was actually probably a pretty underrated like flaw 135 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,000 of the Knicks is that when you look at so 136 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,800 PBP play by play stats has these like low leverage 137 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:41,639 and medium leverage minutes filters, and that's ostensibly like the 138 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,360 possessions in a game that are going to impact the 139 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,439 outcome of winning the least, and the Knicks were like 140 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,600 did not play a lot of those possessions. I think 141 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,000 they were twenty fourth like combined. That's that's not like 142 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,759 great shakes, And it means that in theory, you didn't 143 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,800 weren't good enough to even if you wanted to develop 144 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:01,879 your players, you didn't have the margin for error to 145 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,120 throw in some of those youngsters. And so I think 146 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,879 that's part of the calculus too, if you did look 147 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,600 at moving these swaps for cost control talent. 148 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 3: Now, now before we move on, I speaking of like 149 00:06:13,319 --> 00:06:16,319 the rookies and and the Landry Shammets of the world 150 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,199 and different guys that like like shockingly emerged like late 151 00:06:20,199 --> 00:06:23,480 in the postseason run. Do you think it because because 152 00:06:23,519 --> 00:06:27,040 the core question is like how good basically, how how 153 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:31,480 good is this team? Really? Like do you think there's 154 00:06:31,519 --> 00:06:34,399 a case to be made whether through the organic growth 155 00:06:34,439 --> 00:06:38,079 of the rookies if given the opportunity, or just just 156 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,120 deeper bench use, and presumably a new coach would use 157 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:45,199 more of his bench than Thibodeaux because nobody uses less. Like, 158 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,199 is there an argument to be made that the Knicks 159 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:51,279 could be better just through those avenues or is that 160 00:06:51,399 --> 00:06:53,600 just like, is the difference to marginal for that to 161 00:06:53,639 --> 00:06:56,639 be like to for for the Knicks to say, like, 162 00:06:56,759 --> 00:06:59,199 we're not gonna make big swings. We think we can 163 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,439 get more of the deeper parts of this roster than 164 00:07:02,439 --> 00:07:05,439 we have, and because we were very very close to 165 00:07:05,519 --> 00:07:09,360 making the finals, that's enough. Like, is there any chance 166 00:07:09,439 --> 00:07:12,279 that that's what someone's saying within the organization? 167 00:07:12,879 --> 00:07:15,639 Speaker 2: I think you probably have to guarantee that Landry Shammitt 168 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:17,920 remains healthy in plays, and then the same thing for 169 00:07:17,959 --> 00:07:20,480 Mentell Robinson, who's a bigger piece to that puzzle, because 170 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:22,560 then that deepens your rotation by two bodies that you 171 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,120 didn't have available for most of the regular season. But 172 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,439 in terms of I don't see it necessarily with Pocom Dottier, 173 00:07:28,519 --> 00:07:30,879 but again we haven't seen a ton of him. Tyler Kollak, 174 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,439 if you're looking at oh, like, we don't want to 175 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,959 have to worry about campaign minutes, like maybe that's someone 176 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,759 who could come in and fill that up. But I 177 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,319 think it's just the thing that I keep getting caught 178 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,839 up on with the Knicks is the lack of a 179 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,959 consistent and even if you want to say conventional number 180 00:07:45,959 --> 00:07:48,879 two option, it's Towns by default. And he did some 181 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,439 special things in the lineups without Jalen Brunson this year, 182 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,199 but he's not consistent enough, so I feel like wear 183 00:07:54,279 --> 00:07:55,959 that hat. And so that puts you in a situation 184 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,680 where I guess you can improve on the margins enough, 185 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,959 but unless you're you argue that OKAC doesn't have a 186 00:08:01,959 --> 00:08:04,519 conventional number two score at this point, or a dependable one. 187 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:06,680 But it's like, well, when their options are chet home 188 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,000 good and jail with Williams, it feels like that's different 189 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,800 than having McHale Bridges and even Towns, because even look 190 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:15,279 at the Pacers like they have Siakham. So it's I 191 00:08:15,279 --> 00:08:18,160 don't think it's far fetched to say that organically their 192 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,519 rotation could be deeper and therefore the Knicks are better, 193 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,639 But like that doesn't that unless you disagree, isn't that 194 00:08:23,639 --> 00:08:25,199 feel like more of a marginal thing? 195 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:28,199 Speaker 3: It does? I just was asking, because like I think 196 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,759 it that informs how like desperate it's too strong a 197 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,480 word all, I mean, maybe not, but just how aggressive 198 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,279 they're gonna be improving the top end of the roster 199 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,600 if that's if that's the route they go, if if 200 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,559 you know, there's a cat trade out there or whatever, 201 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:44,279 like if you because all of that stuff is like 202 00:08:44,399 --> 00:08:47,519 super high risk, and I don't know if you want 203 00:08:47,519 --> 00:08:50,279 to be taking these massive swings when you're this close 204 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,320 to being good enough, and so like if you really 205 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:57,120 did as the Knicks believe, God, if we could have 206 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,240 got you know, a thousand minutes out of like these 207 00:09:00,279 --> 00:09:03,039 two other guys over the course of the year, maybe 208 00:09:03,039 --> 00:09:05,799 that's enough for our best players to just be a 209 00:09:06,279 --> 00:09:09,159 two percent fresher or whatever, like you know, because then 210 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,240 it would just it just your opinion on that side 211 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,200 of it, I think informs how how you believe they 212 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,879 should conduct business like big decision wise, top of the roster, 213 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,279 wise money wise this offseason. 214 00:09:22,799 --> 00:09:25,960 Speaker 2: So we'll get into targets what the biggest needs, but 215 00:09:26,039 --> 00:09:29,080 let's first start with two just notable extension candidates. The 216 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,960 biggest one is Mikal Bridges. Did you want to take 217 00:09:32,039 --> 00:09:33,240 us through his options. 218 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, so he is eligible to sign a four year, 219 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,039 one hundred and fifty six point two million dollar extension, 220 00:09:38,039 --> 00:09:40,600 which is about twenty percent of the salary cap, which 221 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,159 thank you for putting that in there, because I do 222 00:09:42,279 --> 00:09:44,919 need to just get off of the raw numbers because 223 00:09:44,919 --> 00:09:46,159 they don't make sense to me anymore. 224 00:09:46,919 --> 00:09:47,879 Speaker 1: They're so high. 225 00:09:48,279 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: I know, it's wait, it's really hard. Wait until you 226 00:09:51,039 --> 00:09:52,679 see the Karl Anthony Towns number. 227 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 3: Is one of them? Is one of the numbers going 228 00:09:55,039 --> 00:09:57,879 to start with a seven? It almost has to, right, 229 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,960 so do so? Then the questions when you're trying to 230 00:10:03,039 --> 00:10:06,159 sort of calculate, like from either side, is that a 231 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,120 fair number? Would either side be happy with that? Uneven 232 00:10:09,159 --> 00:10:10,919 this season? Does that pave the way for him to 233 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,600 take less? Is this a Jalen Brunson like setting a 234 00:10:13,639 --> 00:10:17,480 tone type of thing where which, honestly to me that 235 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,039 that Brunson thing does carry some weight because you really 236 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,960 can say, as as the Knicks like he did it, 237 00:10:23,519 --> 00:10:24,600 are you better than him? 238 00:10:24,759 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 2: Like? 239 00:10:25,279 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 3: I don't know? And Brunson could apply last summer that's true, 240 00:10:29,039 --> 00:10:31,840 that is, for example, but he didn't go to Villanova, 241 00:10:31,919 --> 00:10:35,840 so it's very different. So he's also this is maybe 242 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,799 the kicker, And what we should really be focused on 243 00:10:37,879 --> 00:10:39,720 is so you got that four for one fifty six 244 00:10:39,799 --> 00:10:42,480 on the one hand, or could be maxed out in 245 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,559 twenty twenty six free agency. Four years from the Knicks 246 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,399 would net Bridges two twenty eight point six, five years 247 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,919 from the next two hundred and ninety six million dollars, 248 00:10:51,039 --> 00:10:53,720 four years from anybody else to nineteen point four. You 249 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,600 can kind of think of this in similar terms to 250 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:59,519 what the Pacers were looking at with Pascal Siakam right 251 00:10:59,519 --> 00:11:01,519 where it was like they could offer the fifth year, 252 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,759 nobody else could, uh, And so like maybe what you 253 00:11:04,799 --> 00:11:07,360 look at is that what could an outside team offer 254 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,480 him for four years? That's as high as we need 255 00:11:09,519 --> 00:11:12,639 to go as the Knicks. But for Bridges, it's do 256 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:14,639 you want the four years locked up now or do 257 00:11:14,639 --> 00:11:16,399 you want to go into free agency in twenty six. 258 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,399 Speaker 2: And I've seen a lot of fans just say that 259 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,320 you can't sign him to the extension unless he's will 260 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,120 want to take less than it. I am I wrong 261 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:26,440 here saying that if he's willing to sign that extension, 262 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,120 if you can get him for less, great sign it, 263 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,639 because there's gonna like the player that Michal Bridges is right. 264 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:32,879 Speaker 1: Now. 265 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 2: I don't think he'll get maxed out by anybody, but 266 00:11:35,639 --> 00:11:38,799 I absolutely positively believe that someone will give him more 267 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,679 than four years and one hundred and fifty six million 268 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:41,559 dollars next summer. 269 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 3: I think that's right, and I think you are still 270 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,159 well one if you four for one fifty six, he's 271 00:11:48,519 --> 00:11:50,759 a tradable asset for positive value. I think at that 272 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,840 number I would agree, not again, not five first round picks. 273 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,120 But you kind of we just kind of have to 274 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,360 like that's that you can't sort of evaluate. 275 00:11:57,919 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 2: Guns are looking for a comparable return for kel Durant 276 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,159 that they gave up for him. So that's for unprotected 277 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,600 first one swap Cam Johnson and McHale Bridges, and then 278 00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:07,840 whatever they ended up getting for j. 279 00:12:07,919 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: Crowder as well. 280 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,799 Speaker 3: Right, so the market's been set. No, I think you're right. 281 00:12:12,879 --> 00:12:15,600 It does feel like there's some sticker shock there for 282 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:19,240 what's like twenty percent of the cap. It makes it 283 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,240 seem a little easier to handle, but you do just 284 00:12:21,279 --> 00:12:23,720 sort of need to view it from the knick's perspective, 285 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:27,039 from the standpoint of like somebody else is going to 286 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,960 offer more than that if you wait until twenty six, 287 00:12:30,039 --> 00:12:30,399 I think. 288 00:12:30,879 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: And if they don't, what went wrong next? 289 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,759 Speaker 3: Well yeah right, yeah, if somebody is not willing to 290 00:12:35,799 --> 00:12:37,639 do that, then you might have overpaid it four for 291 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:41,120 one fifty six because something went sideways. But yeah, I 292 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,960 I think. And then if I'm Bridges, I don't know. 293 00:12:46,039 --> 00:12:47,639 I might want to test. I might want to see 294 00:12:47,639 --> 00:12:49,679 if somebody wants to get me over two hundred million. 295 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: That's what I was gonna say. 296 00:12:51,159 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 2: I wonder if for the Knicks then him, unless it 297 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:57,200 was was part of the calculation giving up so much 298 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:58,840 for him that he was always going to sign this 299 00:12:58,879 --> 00:13:01,120 extension and that was the value of giving up so 300 00:13:01,159 --> 00:13:03,440 many picks or did. 301 00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:05,639 Speaker 1: It work out in your favor? And both could be true. 302 00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:09,799 Speaker 2: I guess where because his season was so uneven that 303 00:13:09,919 --> 00:13:12,840 he is now going to sign the extension like rather 304 00:13:12,879 --> 00:13:15,000 than because if you're him, it's if he has another 305 00:13:15,039 --> 00:13:17,399 season like he does. If this is the player mchail 306 00:13:17,399 --> 00:13:20,120 Bridges is right now, he's the exact same season, it's 307 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,240 probably if he I'd still guess though, that he gets 308 00:13:23,279 --> 00:13:26,039 more because it only takes one team, and there's gonna 309 00:13:26,039 --> 00:13:28,480 be right now, there's one team that's gonna have cap 310 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,279 space there's gonna be I would say at least a 311 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:34,480 half dozen teams next summer. Unless something changes, they're gonna 312 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:36,759 be working with caps. The Heat could be one of them. 313 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:38,720 So I just look at this and say, if he's 314 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:40,759 gonna sign the extension, and if I had to guess, 315 00:13:40,799 --> 00:13:42,799 I'm curious what you think. I think it just ends 316 00:13:42,879 --> 00:13:45,279 up being the max four years, one hundred and fifty six. 317 00:13:45,279 --> 00:13:48,480 I think it gets done this summer if it doesn't, 318 00:13:48,639 --> 00:13:51,080 because if i'm mcail Bridges, I'm actually probably not signing it. 319 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:53,440 Like I'd go into the open market and I would 320 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,159 think that at worst the Knicks will offer. 321 00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: Me that same amount of money next year. 322 00:14:00,519 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: But if he doesn't sign it, if you are the Knicks, 323 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,120 like you need to have some internal discussions about are 324 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,840 we like, are we prepared to like if he goes 325 00:14:07,879 --> 00:14:10,840 into free agency and he gets what four for two hundred, 326 00:14:11,279 --> 00:14:13,000 are you prepared to go to the fifth year like 327 00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:15,320 you did for og or just give him more over 328 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,879 the like If he doesn't sign it, I think there's 329 00:14:17,919 --> 00:14:19,960 real awkward questions that need to be asked. 330 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 3: And not only that, but then as the Knicks, you're 331 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,440 in the position of like, well, so now we got 332 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,799 to think about trading him. And suddenly do you get 333 00:14:27,799 --> 00:14:30,039 into the whole thing of like, well, so now teams 334 00:14:30,279 --> 00:14:32,919 you can't trade him. Teams aren't going to offer much 335 00:14:32,919 --> 00:14:35,639 for him if if they know he just the reason 336 00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:37,279 that he wasn't signed is because he wants to go 337 00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:39,200 into free agency in twenty six, So what are we 338 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,759 giving up for a potential rental? Like if you do 339 00:14:41,799 --> 00:14:44,080 get to the point where we can't agree at four 340 00:14:44,159 --> 00:14:47,759 for one fifty six? Uh he And the reason that's 341 00:14:47,799 --> 00:14:50,000 true is because like one maybe he's not super sure 342 00:14:50,039 --> 00:14:51,240 he wants to be here, and two he thinks he 343 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:52,480 can get more. It is like you might have to 344 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:54,399 think about moving him, and that gets really difficult. Like 345 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,720 I think you're it four for one fifth, given all 346 00:14:57,759 --> 00:15:00,639 now that we've talked it through, given all the potential 347 00:15:00,679 --> 00:15:03,440 downsides and risks of him not signing, that the Knicks 348 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,559 really need to hope they can get him at that 349 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,960 max number now because I think if you push this 350 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,360 to twenty six, it just gets everything gets worse for them. 351 00:15:10,759 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 2: Another extension, candidate Grant and I mentioned to throw this 352 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,240 scenario at you, so I'll take us through it. Karlathy 353 00:15:17,279 --> 00:15:19,240 Towns can sign a two year, one hundred and forty 354 00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:22,559 nine point eight million dollar extension that would kick in 355 00:15:22,799 --> 00:15:25,639 during his two during the twenty eight twenty nine season, 356 00:15:25,639 --> 00:15:28,600 when he's thirty three. That would bring his total commitment 357 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:31,200 this is the number to five years, three hundred and 358 00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:34,480 twenty one point one million dollars. That's a lot of money. 359 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:38,960 I think logic dictate dictates the Knicks do absolutely nothing. 360 00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:43,240 But what if they did something like this, if they 361 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,639 got him his player option in the final year of 362 00:15:45,679 --> 00:15:49,000 this contract in twenty twenty seven twenty twenty eight is 363 00:15:49,039 --> 00:15:50,399 sixty one million dollars. 364 00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: You're Karl Anthony Towns. You're sitting here. 365 00:15:52,879 --> 00:15:55,399 Speaker 2: Saying, I am going to be like, all right in 366 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,960 my mid thirties at that point, like early to mid thirties, 367 00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:01,200 Do I try to lock in three years of like 368 00:16:01,279 --> 00:16:04,519 pretty big money by declining that player option now and 369 00:16:04,559 --> 00:16:08,519 re signing for lower average annual value. Because what that does, 370 00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:11,120 in theory is as it starts to get harder for 371 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,600 the Knicks to keep everything rolling, conthe Town's number gets 372 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,120 lower sooner, so you have Conthi Towns for the next 373 00:16:17,159 --> 00:16:19,919 two years at his current number. But then once you 374 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,720 get to twenty seven to twenty eight, when it's supposed 375 00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:24,600 to be sixty one million, it dips. Now, I think 376 00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:26,559 I tried to confirm this and I couldn't. I think 377 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,519 the most his salary could dip by if he declines 378 00:16:29,559 --> 00:16:32,279 his player option accepts less is like forty percent. 379 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,080 Speaker 1: So it's like, he's not gonna take forty He's not 380 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,799 slashing his salary in half. But I'm just curious. 381 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,799 Speaker 2: It's like, is there a number that because they can't 382 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,240 they if they sign him to a two year, one 383 00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:43,720 dre and fifty million dollars extension, every one in that front 384 00:16:43,759 --> 00:16:45,840 office deserves to be fired. I'm sorry, Like you could 385 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,600 extend him next summer if he has a great year. 386 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,559 But I'm just wondering, is they're like a number where again, 387 00:16:50,679 --> 00:16:53,159 you're knowing you have that sixty one million in that 388 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,279 third year, So what would a three year extension look 389 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,720 like for coronthy Towns and the Knicks That would get 390 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,840 both sides thinking does this make sense? Like how low 391 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,279 Let's frame it this way, how low does that number 392 00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:05,200 in twenty seven twenty eight need to drop for you 393 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,319 to think about, like it's fifty million? 394 00:17:07,519 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: If he says yeah, I'll do three and one fifty. 395 00:17:09,799 --> 00:17:12,880 Speaker 3: I hate I this is absurd because that is the 396 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:15,240 exact number I was first of all, I was gonna 397 00:17:15,279 --> 00:17:18,720 I was gonna hem and Han say, like who who know? 398 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,000 Twenty seven to twenty eight, Like we already can't wrap 399 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:23,759 our heads around the money. Now, if you're giving up 400 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,359 sixty one million dollars, so then that's like all right, 401 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,839 so does that to sign for three for one fifty? 402 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,240 Does that so then otherwise like versus picking up that 403 00:17:35,319 --> 00:17:38,119 option for sixty one and then you just need two 404 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,559 for ninety after that to like break even. Yeah, I 405 00:17:41,599 --> 00:17:47,200 mean if I'm if if towns is Is is in 406 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,559 the position of signing like one plus ones that soon, 407 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,519 that's a problem. I mean for him, I guess, But 408 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:58,319 like I think could couldn't it also be the case 409 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:01,279 that three for one fifty just becomes a good deal 410 00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:04,319 for him because maybe he has another season like this 411 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,359 one where man, like look at those numbers during the 412 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,720 year and then in the playoffs you're just like not 413 00:18:08,759 --> 00:18:11,440 consistent enough. Like the defense isn't there, he's not a 414 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,880 center like all that. That stuff's not gonna change, right, 415 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,319 Like we're not gonna find ourselves a year from now 416 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,440 or two years from now, thinking like, isn't the evolution 417 00:18:19,559 --> 00:18:21,720 of Karl Anthony Towns are remarkable? Like he's a great 418 00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:24,440 rim protector. He fits on any team, Like he plays 419 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,200 center full time. It's great. Like, So from his perspective, 420 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,960 maybe that does just beat the market and it's worth 421 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,720 it to the Knicks to just have someone at that number. 422 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:36,559 I don't know, three for one to fifty does seem reasonable, 423 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,519 but like I mean, who knows. Who knows what it's 424 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:42,839 like the next two years are gonna hold? 425 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,279 Speaker 1: And I think I don't. 426 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 2: I honestly don't know, because when you say three for 427 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,680 one fifty when he's basically eligible for two and one 428 00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:52,400 fifty now, it sounds ridiculous. But you have to try 429 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,599 and project forward on the market, and I really do 430 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,240 think I thought Jared Jackson Junior was gonna be the 431 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,480 case study, and now that he's not all in, that 432 00:18:59,519 --> 00:19:00,799 he's not supermax. 433 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: Eligible, he won't be. 434 00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:03,839 Speaker 2: I don't know if it's Tree Young who's not super 435 00:19:03,839 --> 00:19:06,480 max eligible. This is a regular extension. I think in 436 00:19:06,559 --> 00:19:11,039 the era of aprons, the bar for max players, especially 437 00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:13,720 when you're getting into the thirty five percent max territory 438 00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:15,279 or even the thirty percent territory. 439 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:16,759 Speaker 1: The fun max is the rookie scales. 440 00:19:17,039 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 2: Sure, I think it's gonna be higher, And so I'm 441 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,440 kind of waiting for like, because if Jalen Brown was 442 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,880 super max eligible this summer and throw the Jason Tatum 443 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:26,599 injury out the window, I don't think he gets it. 444 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 3: No way, No, I think you're dead. You're dead on that. 445 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,519 That has to be the way things go, because you're 446 00:19:34,079 --> 00:19:36,559 if that. If it isn't, then you're just I think 447 00:19:36,599 --> 00:19:39,960 teams now are like sufficiently afraid of the second apron 448 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,720 and all the restrictions it imposes. So like Jackson would 449 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,400 have been a great test case. I think Towns. I 450 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,680 think we'll get somebody else before Towns probably, But what 451 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,079 there's maybe like Durant. It isn't Durant gonna be eligible 452 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,599 for like a two for one fourteen or whatever, like. 453 00:19:55,599 --> 00:19:57,599 Speaker 1: Two for one twenty two or two for one twenty 454 00:19:57,599 --> 00:19:58,480 four depending on when. 455 00:19:58,559 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So if Towns is a test case, then 456 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,519 the answer to the test will be there's no chance 457 00:20:05,519 --> 00:20:08,240 he's getting two for one nine like never in a 458 00:20:08,279 --> 00:20:08,920 million years. 459 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,039 Speaker 2: I don't think they if he's not willing to do 460 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,440 the decline the player option in the lower selling enough, 461 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,359 he's definitely not getting extension, So I don't actually think 462 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,480 he's gonna be a case study. I'm wondering if he 463 00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:20,400 wants to get out in front of being a case study, 464 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,920 because it's like, could we guarantee let's let this contract end. 465 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,279 And so you're saying if three for one fifty was 466 00:20:26,319 --> 00:20:27,960 on the table, you mentioned you need to do two 467 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,240 for ninety at that point, I know the cap is 468 00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:32,880 going up. Are you sure that Karnthi Towns at the 469 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,440 age of thirty three is getting two for ninety at 470 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:37,039 that I don't know that you can be ending. 471 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 3: No, I'm not sure at all. 472 00:20:38,599 --> 00:20:42,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially if we're at Karnthi. Look, it's they're 473 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:43,960 not the same player. But like if the Hawks aren't 474 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,160 willing to give Trey Young like a MAX extension now, 475 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,000 like in the four years and the two twenties or 476 00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:53,000 whatever it's worth, like that's like him in Towns are 477 00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:54,640 kind of on the same level of player right where 478 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,839 it's like in any given season they could be an 479 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,119 All NBA player. You might say Towns is just better 480 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,839 because he's more of an at his position. That's I 481 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:03,839 don't need to get into debate, but like, they're kind 482 00:21:03,839 --> 00:21:06,680 of in the same bucket of if you just chopper 483 00:21:06,759 --> 00:21:10,039 them into the open market, like what are like, which 484 00:21:10,039 --> 00:21:12,119 teams are tripping over themselves to get them? Or if 485 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,079 you put them on the trade block right now, what 486 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,400 teams are tripping over themselves to get them? I think 487 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,519 from the Knicks, it just could be something to explore. 488 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,119 I ultimately think, and I recognize that I might just 489 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:22,319 be a little lower on the situation. 490 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: Now, even if it was three for. 491 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 2: One fifty and I'm the Knicks, I'm probably like, you 492 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:28,960 know what, the AAV needs to drop a low fifty 493 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,920 million a year, like and that's probably unrealistic. 494 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think that's right. I just like we're 495 00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:38,640 getting There was a minute there where it's like, if 496 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,039 you're our very best player and we're half decent, you're 497 00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:43,759 just getting the max extension because we don't want to 498 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,359 that's valuable to us. And now it's almost like, yeah, 499 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:49,400 you'll get the max extension if half the league would 500 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,200 also give it to you, like if that were possible 501 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,200 to test, And I think, yeah, no, the bar. 502 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:54,559 Speaker 1: Is just higher. 503 00:21:54,599 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 2: You're right about that, grant, do you want to take 504 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,240 us through some of the Kevin Durant stuff. 505 00:21:58,319 --> 00:22:00,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, And the question Dan is should they be in 506 00:22:00,759 --> 00:22:04,079 on him? I will answer with a resounding yes. I 507 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,640 think I think if it were him for Cat straight up, 508 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,200 if that were actually possible, I think they're just a 509 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,640 better team. So the cleanest construction of hypothetical trade does 510 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,839 involve sending out kat plus a smaller salary. Things to 511 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,480 keep in mind here, Katie's gonna be thirty seven in September, 512 00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:23,079 just you know, per minute, still pretty phenomenal. I think 513 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:27,359 maybe some of the luster has worn off. Just another 514 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:33,400 team change probably coming up. He's gonna be traded, he will, 515 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,279 as I jumped ahead, He's gonna be eligible to sign 516 00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:37,839 at two year, one hundred and twenty two million dollar 517 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:39,839 extension could be one hundred and twenty four if you 518 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,599 wait six months after changing teams. That total commitment. Then 519 00:22:43,839 --> 00:22:46,359 if you trade for him and then extend him would 520 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,880 be three years and between one hundred and seventy seven 521 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:50,880 and one hundred and seventy nine. That would take him 522 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,799 through his age thirty nine season. Towns, for comparison's sake, 523 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,000 is at three years, one hundred and seventy one million 524 00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:59,759 through his age thirty two season, So seven seven years 525 00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:03,960 you got Katie's getting up there. That's unbelievable. What we 526 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,519 haven't talked about this, I if Katie's on the table 527 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,799 for and you're not throwing in a bunch of sweeteners 528 00:23:09,839 --> 00:23:11,920 in one way or the other, I think he makes 529 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,440 the Knicks better than Towns. We haven't talked about it, though, 530 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:16,559 I'm curious what you think about that. 531 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,279 Speaker 2: I agree, and I actually I said you should know 532 00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:20,720 how I think because I sent you I was writing 533 00:23:20,759 --> 00:23:23,279 about a four team trade and it basically ended with 534 00:23:23,319 --> 00:23:27,119 the Knicks giving up kat a twenty twenty eight pick swap, 535 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,200 which people were up in arms about. That pick's already 536 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,839 been swapped, so it's just like swap of a swap. 537 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:35,599 It's a swap of a swap and PJ. Tucker to 538 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,759 bring in Kevin Durant. And I think the merits of 539 00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:41,400 this go a couple different ways. Everything you outlined, and 540 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,000 I do agree that like the sheen of Kevin Durant, 541 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,519 if you're expecting him to elevate players around him, shoulder 542 00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:49,039 more of the playmaking, maybe even just handle all these 543 00:23:49,079 --> 00:23:53,759 double teams, he won't. But there's he's still just a 544 00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:56,400 better number two score than Karl Anthony Towns. And the 545 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,400 reason you have Karl Anthony Towns is because of the 546 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,599 scoring like and the flexibility he gives you in spacing. 547 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,759 If you're already thinking about do we need to play 548 00:24:04,839 --> 00:24:07,559 him next to another big, you've already kind of just 549 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,200 like the experiment is not what you thought it would be. 550 00:24:10,279 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: And if you really believe that you can. 551 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,319 Speaker 2: Build a championship calendar per defense around Jalen Brunson and 552 00:24:16,319 --> 00:24:20,319 Carlita Town carlke Town's playing together, then no, you don't 553 00:24:20,319 --> 00:24:22,279 make that move. I know Kevin Durant's older, but there's 554 00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:24,759 also something in me another by the way, he's a 555 00:24:24,799 --> 00:24:27,319 defensive upgrade just to her positions. 556 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,279 Speaker 3: You know, inside six feet, Kevin Durant's field goal percentage 557 00:24:30,279 --> 00:24:32,799 allowed is like eight percentage points lower than Retcats last year. 558 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:34,720 It's like it's not even really that close. 559 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: And it's just easier. 560 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 2: So if you get rid of Towns, it's easier to 561 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,079 if you're using the mini, mid level or even minimums, 562 00:24:41,079 --> 00:24:43,599 you're gonna get a big. It's just easier to find 563 00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:45,680 maybe a rotation big than it would be that man, 564 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:47,599 we could really use another ball handler or someone could 565 00:24:47,599 --> 00:24:49,200 come in and pump in twenty points a game or 566 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:49,920 something like that. 567 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: What's also intriguing. And I'm not saying he would do this. 568 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:54,559 Speaker 2: This is all something that needs to be factor and 569 00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:56,160 we're just this has become our mantra. 570 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: I'm just we're just asking questions. We're just saying things. 571 00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 2: Grant, he's on an expiring contract and we're writing those 572 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,440 extension numbers. But like, what if he's just like gonna 573 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,440 take less. I'm not like, I'm not a big fan 574 00:25:09,519 --> 00:25:12,359 of or like and very rarely do you see players 575 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,839 if the max is available taking a bunch less. But 576 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,839 he's going he's turning thirty seven in September. Would he 577 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,240 just say like, yeah, I'll do two years in one 578 00:25:20,279 --> 00:25:22,240 hundred or something like? Is that outside there is that? 579 00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:25,000 Would that be completely just ridiculous to think that he does. 580 00:25:25,079 --> 00:25:28,759 Maybe maybe it is, but regardless, even if he's like 581 00:25:29,079 --> 00:25:31,200 the extension of it all, like it does give you 582 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,319 a little bit of flexibility towards Well Towns is on 583 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,440 the books. We know for another three seasons Kevin Durant 584 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,799 has won. So if it's again it's a risk, but 585 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,599 it does increase your flexibility in theory. 586 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: Should things go sideways. 587 00:25:44,279 --> 00:25:48,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know you'd if you're against the 588 00:25:48,559 --> 00:25:51,559 idea that duran is just a better overall proposition than 589 00:25:51,599 --> 00:25:54,920 Towns is for the next three years at roughly similar money, 590 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:58,079 you're making durability arguments, which is like, that's fair. It's 591 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,920 just given the age difference you're making, you might even 592 00:26:02,039 --> 00:26:05,319 be concerned that, like, well, the timeline of Durant becoming 593 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,880 disenchanted with his team seems to be accelerating, and so 594 00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:10,680 like we might get eighteen months out of this before 595 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,480 we have to try to trade him. But just from 596 00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:17,920 an on court perspective and like bang for buck perspective 597 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,119 and sealing perspective, like Kevin Durant as your second option 598 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,839 in a playoff series is just more valuable than Towns 599 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,279 and and and then if the defense is a wash 600 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,400 or favors Durant at all, then like what are we 601 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,279 talking about? It's it's it's easy, but age thirty nine 602 00:26:34,319 --> 00:26:36,599 season at the end of that deal, Like, that's. 603 00:26:36,319 --> 00:26:39,079 Speaker 2: That's you'd rather have Towns at three for seventy one, 604 00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:42,799 knowing the ages or KD at three one seventy seven. 605 00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:45,400 It's basically the same money, So I'd rather have Kevin 606 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,960 Durant or Qualfe Town for the next three years. 607 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,759 Speaker 1: That's a real question. That's we're not dismissing that at all. 608 00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 3: No, and it might be bad money at the end 609 00:26:53,519 --> 00:26:56,119 either way. So maybe the lens to look at it 610 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,359 through is like in twenty five twenty six, are the 611 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,359 Knicks more dangerous with Kadi at the four and Mitchell 612 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,839 Robinson at the five or what they had this past 613 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:08,039 year with kat And I think they're just I think, 614 00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:10,440 and maybe that's the right way to look at it, 615 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,480 because this is a year to year business, Like who 616 00:27:12,519 --> 00:27:15,160 knows what's gonna happen two years from now, And like 617 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,759 I said, it's possible that Durant is is that's a 618 00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:20,559 bad value in year two and three. With Towns, it's 619 00:27:20,599 --> 00:27:23,119 kind of already a bad value. So and it's it's 620 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,440 not gonna get better. I wouldn't think in year two 621 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,640 or three of these extent of these next three years 622 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,319 on their deals. So even if it's just we're way 623 00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:34,519 better next year or we're marginally better next year as 624 00:27:34,559 --> 00:27:36,400 the Nicks because we have Durant and not Towns, then 625 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,480 like you you do that now it takes two are 626 00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:42,640 the Sons, Like, do the sons want to do that? 627 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 2: I was gonna say that John Cambadoora, the reporting for 628 00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:47,119 him is that they don't want Karl Anthony Towns so now, 629 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,799 and for Knicks fans that think, why would you ever 630 00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:51,400 give U Karl Anthony Towns for Kevin Durant? Could you 631 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,559 even get Kevin Durant for Karl Anthony Towns? Like you 632 00:27:53,599 --> 00:27:55,640 need another team then to value Karl Anthony Towns. And 633 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:57,599 if he's as valuable as I think a lot of 634 00:27:57,599 --> 00:28:00,279 people think that he is relative to Kevin Durant's age, well, 635 00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:01,880 then in theory you should be able to get enough 636 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,079 stuff to where not only did you get KD, but 637 00:28:04,079 --> 00:28:06,480 maybe there are some other assets coming back your way. 638 00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: And I just don't think that would be the case. 639 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 2: Do I think a cat for KD construction that involves 640 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,359 a third or fourth team, one of that one of 641 00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,839 which would value Towns more than the Suns is possible? 642 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,519 Speaker 1: I would think, yeah, especially if if Kevin Rant wants 643 00:28:18,559 --> 00:28:20,960 to go to the Knicks, like he will go to 644 00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:21,519 the Knicks. 645 00:28:21,599 --> 00:28:23,039 Speaker 2: And the other thing here too is I know the 646 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,519 reporting from Stefan Bondi of the new York Post and 647 00:28:25,599 --> 00:28:27,599 some other Beat writers, is the Knicks aren't in on KD? 648 00:28:28,599 --> 00:28:30,559 I want to say. I mean this with Beat reporters 649 00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:32,240 have like one of the hardest jobs in the world 650 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,680 when it comes to covering this league. When it comes 651 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,920 to trade rumors, I do defer to like the Shams's, 652 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,119 Mark Stott, like the Jake Fisher's when it comes to 653 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:42,559 like knowing the ins and outs of the team. 654 00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: Like, yeah, you defer to the Beat reporters for sure. 655 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 2: So I absolutely believe that the Knicks are they They 656 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,279 made an offer for KD at the trade deadline. We 657 00:28:50,319 --> 00:28:52,480 know that for a fact to what changed from the 658 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,319 trade deadline, But how are the Knicks better off? It's 659 00:28:55,599 --> 00:28:58,200 and where you get where you get into just oh 660 00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,960 should they do it? Is now if it's not gonna 661 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:02,319 be Cat and you're talking about sending out like it 662 00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:06,079 has to be basically two of Og, Mitchell Robinson, Chel 663 00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:08,480 Bridges or Josh Hart, it's sort of like, no, you 664 00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:10,680 can't do that. Even if you're okay with giving up Heart, 665 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,279 you can't get there with just Mitch. 666 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: And then it's giving up Og. 667 00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:15,759 Speaker 2: And like it's just you were talking about how we 668 00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:17,480 were talking about how shallow they were. Now they're gonna 669 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:18,960 get a shallower, get older. 670 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: No, you can't do that. 671 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 2: No talking about so the next phase of just like 672 00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:26,279 what does this team need? What are some targets they 673 00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:30,680 should go after? What are do you grant you're identifying 674 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,039 the single biggest need for this team? 675 00:29:33,359 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 3: What is it? So you have a we have a 676 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:39,920 list up here if you're watching on YouTube. I jump 677 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,319 first to another ball handler, which is a second item, 678 00:29:43,519 --> 00:29:46,240 get say another biggest Obviously if they do trade towns, 679 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,960 you're gonna need a backup big, especially given Robinson's health, 680 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,440 health history, and like if it's for Durant, like Durant's 681 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,319 probably not playing center. Oh you know the sounds you 682 00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:58,200 could you could do it for spot minutes against the 683 00:29:58,279 --> 00:30:01,319 right lineups. But to me, like and maybe the coaching 684 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,079 change handles this too, maybe because it empowers Bridges a 685 00:30:05,079 --> 00:30:09,359 little more or whatever, just somebody else, So Brunson isn't 686 00:30:09,359 --> 00:30:10,880 pounding the air out of the ball all the time. 687 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,559 And to me, that's the main thing, just just because 688 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,240 like I don't know, the backup big not that hard 689 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,440 to find depth pieces, relatively speaking, easier to find more 690 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,759 three point shooting. That's in need as well somebody else 691 00:30:27,799 --> 00:30:29,640 to make plays. I think is to me is the 692 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,440 standout issue. Do you do you agree with that? I 693 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,200 don't know if we've ever like organized them in a hierarchy. 694 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,119 Speaker 2: The hierarchy is tough because I think they just need 695 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,960 general depth. But I actually think that like doesn't feel 696 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,000 like they need another big because I'm looking at this 697 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,359 the most true looking at this through the lens of saying, 698 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,680 how do you build a really good defense with Contact 699 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,759 Towns and Jail and Brunson like in the same lineup, 700 00:30:53,799 --> 00:30:56,240 And it kind of seems like contt Towns needs to 701 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,400 be playing alongside another big for that to happen, or 702 00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,119 you need to get someone like that you don't have 703 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,160 the assets to get like a Herb Jones or a 704 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:04,759 Tumani Kamara. 705 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 3: Don't you think it's possible that, Like I guess I 706 00:31:08,039 --> 00:31:10,559 keep in all my hypotheticals like Towns just isn't involved 707 00:31:10,759 --> 00:31:14,119 like where it's just like you og can play the 708 00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:16,480 four bridges is the three you have another wing defender 709 00:31:16,519 --> 00:31:18,079 with a decent amount of size, Like it doesn't have 710 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:19,559 to be a big now you need a big for 711 00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:22,400 I think for me, like I'm viewing the other big 712 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,480 as like this is a second big or I guess 713 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,359 a third if Kat is there, and like those are 714 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,119 just easier to find. So maybe the need is greater 715 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:31,680 than I'm giving it credit for. I just think it's 716 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,640 easier to fulfill that need than it is to go 717 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,279 find someone else. That's like you're on the ball for 718 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,200 sixteen minutes a game, like make stuff happen, Like that 719 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,400 guy's hard to find? 720 00:31:40,559 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: Do you think that? 721 00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 2: So they let's say they can access the mini mid 722 00:31:44,039 --> 00:31:46,400 level exception, which again, as we went over, there's not 723 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:47,680 necessarily guarantee that they can. 724 00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: Like, what are you looking at with that? 725 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:50,039 Speaker 3: Like? 726 00:31:50,119 --> 00:31:53,599 Speaker 2: Is that getting you in the Malcolm Brog didn't. No, right, 727 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,480 that's not getting you, Malcolm Brog? Is he even what 728 00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:57,839 you want? Like I think for the value, yeah, you 729 00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,839 just do it. But is that when you're thinking of 730 00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,440 that ball handler type? Is that even who you want 731 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:03,319 to fill that role? 732 00:32:03,599 --> 00:32:05,519 Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean you can't be too picky at the 733 00:32:05,839 --> 00:32:08,599 mini mid level, right, Like that's just a five point 734 00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:11,000 seven million, that's I mean, it's more than the minimum, 735 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:11,920 but it's it's not. 736 00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 2: I mean, and for some guys it's not really that 737 00:32:14,359 --> 00:32:16,640 much more than the minimum, like right, the minimum for 738 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,400 a contract like the ten like three point four million 739 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,440 or so, it's not that much. 740 00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:23,319 Speaker 3: Yeah, more I mean is Brogden is just getting thrown 741 00:32:23,319 --> 00:32:25,839 around so much of this offseason, Like I don't know 742 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,359 what's Tias Jones gonna get is and how much of 743 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,759 an upgrade all told, is Tiat Jones over campaign, especially 744 00:32:31,759 --> 00:32:34,039 if he's only playing a handful of minutes every game. 745 00:32:34,079 --> 00:32:37,799 I think he's better, but like it's I mean, Dangel 746 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,240 Russell no way for five point seven. I don't even 747 00:32:40,279 --> 00:32:42,519 know if I mean, actually Dangel Russell would help. I 748 00:32:42,519 --> 00:32:44,559 think just to just come in and like prop the 749 00:32:44,599 --> 00:32:46,480 offense up. When Brunson is not there, you can't play 750 00:32:46,519 --> 00:32:49,200 him together. That's the other thing is maybe your secondary 751 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,160 ball handler, I don't know, if you really want bang 752 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,119 for your buck has to be someone that could play 753 00:32:54,119 --> 00:32:57,319 with Brunson, because that's kind of been part of the problem. 754 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,359 But that maybe that's just more of a tactical thing 755 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,440 where it's like the coach needs to be the one 756 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:06,279 to sort of democratize the offense and you you can 757 00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:08,720 just get a backup point guard that's better. But I 758 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:10,519 don't know. In the perfect world, I think you want 759 00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:12,480 someone that could play in relief of or next to, 760 00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:15,440 like a bug down Bogdanovich, like with could play in 761 00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:17,920 with Trey Young when he was with Atlanta, could relieve 762 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,519 Trey Young, Like that's you know, you don't love the defense, 763 00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:23,400 but someone like that, that's like, yeah, he can actually 764 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,079 be out there with your point guard and is a 765 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,599 value add but again, mini mid level good luck. 766 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 2: Right, And it's just I don't know, like Dennis Shrewder 767 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,079 probably can't play with j Allen brunt In, but that 768 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,880 might be a mini mid level name. And so if 769 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,279 you want it to be like another ball handler, it 770 00:33:38,319 --> 00:33:40,720 feels like it would need to be addressed via trade. 771 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,240 Speaker 1: And then it's okay. If it's not the. 772 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 2: Town's type of scenario, it's probably Josh Hart And so 773 00:33:48,079 --> 00:33:48,880 it's Josh Hart. 774 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,799 Speaker 1: And like you're not gonna get even Malik Monk. 775 00:33:51,839 --> 00:33:54,119 Speaker 2: And like if you give Josh harten swaps, that's not 776 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:56,359 gonna get you Malik Monk from Sacramento, is it? 777 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,079 Speaker 3: Hmm? Probably not? I mean that might be cool, although 778 00:34:01,119 --> 00:34:05,519 like Sacramento actually is worse off in its shot creation 779 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,840 in like point guard position than than than you know, 780 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,320 are they giving him more bunk and then who's running 781 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,239 the show. They don't have anybody right now. Devin Carter 782 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,760 gonna play forty minutes a game as the second year player. 783 00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 2: Next year, Zach Lavine and Demarda Rosen run it back 784 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,599 bulls bulls plus a bonus. 785 00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:23,639 Speaker 3: Demonisabon just everything runs from the elbows again? 786 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,079 Speaker 1: Does this is just you can't? I mean, you could 787 00:34:26,079 --> 00:34:27,079 play these two together. 788 00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 2: He's a free agent, but like Chris Paul, like that 789 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,360 would be like someone who could come and like provide 790 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,440 some of it, like a nice offensive equilibrium during the 791 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,000 non bruns in minutes. But I don't like playing those 792 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,079 two together. It could work offensively, especially with the way 793 00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:42,280 Chris Paul shot this past year. You just probably don't 794 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:42,760 want to do it. 795 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,800 Speaker 3: They're so small, I mean, can you get he's already 796 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,079 on his second deal, But like a Cole Anthony type 797 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,400 is like the level of player. But then that's that's 798 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,400 gonna have to be a heart salary match too. 799 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:55,440 Speaker 2: Probably what's cool man for another team has to get 800 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,199 in there, because when we're gonna make Orlando spacing even worse, right, Yeah. 801 00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 3: Josh Hart would fit in in Orlando, though for the 802 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:02,559 wrong reasons. 803 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 1: Can we get aj Mitchell from the Thunder, How do 804 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:05,920 we do that? I would take it? 805 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,599 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's can you I 806 00:35:11,639 --> 00:35:13,320 don't even know what the Knicks picks are like? Or 807 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,639 can you trade for a pick and take like a 808 00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:18,559 late first round or like a second round guard that's 809 00:35:18,599 --> 00:35:23,000 gonna I mean, then it's just just play more right. 810 00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 2: Coleic would be not I know you'll support this, but 811 00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:28,239 can you get enough picks or like give enough value 812 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:30,400 to get Scottie Pippen junior from Memphis? 813 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 3: He'd be great. I mean I had him in six 814 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:35,760 Man of the Year, like top three all season. Yeah, 815 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,320 someone like that would be and I think defensively you 816 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:39,960 might be able to play him with Brunson you'd be 817 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,960 super small. But that's that's an option too. 818 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:48,840 Speaker 2: In terms of bigs, I've wondered if, like does do 819 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,960 the Knicks kind of have a leg up if they're 820 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,199 pitching free agents by saying if this is a weakness, 821 00:35:54,199 --> 00:35:56,239 but they could use it as a strength where technically, 822 00:35:56,639 --> 00:35:58,880 if you don't mind bringing Mitchell Robinson off the bench 823 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:01,400 and you want hard on the bench to begin with, 824 00:36:02,119 --> 00:36:05,679 it's oh, we have a starter spot right here. Al Horford, 825 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,519 you want to come like for the many of Boston's 826 00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:10,519 cutting car like that would is that something that is? 827 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,599 Or even Steven Adams Brooke maybe, I guess Brook Lopez 828 00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:16,079 you do run into the issue by doing that of 829 00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:18,760 saying if you're probably trying to stagger Josh Harda, Mitchell Robbinson, 830 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,679 they're both coming off the bench, like it's a little trickier. 831 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,519 But I've wondered if, like you know, those guys feel 832 00:36:23,559 --> 00:36:25,360 like they should have more than the mid level available, 833 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,719 but if it's not by much, and the Knicks are saying, like, hey, 834 00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:29,519 we have a starter's role here, I'm wondering if that 835 00:36:29,559 --> 00:36:30,599 could matter a little bit. 836 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it should right, like, because that's how 837 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,760 you end up getting paid more later, is if you're 838 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,599 logging enough minutes to have the numbers and showcase yourself. 839 00:36:38,639 --> 00:36:41,599 Like I think there's there's a whole class, like if 840 00:36:41,599 --> 00:36:45,119 it's Jay Huff just to keep picking off Memphis players 841 00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:50,800 as someone that if you're zachable, yeah, I mean by low, 842 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:53,320 I guess, or by yeah, can buy low on on 843 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,360 a lottery guy. Yeah, the d just be like we'll 844 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,679 pay you to rehab for six months instead of whatever 845 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,639 for five. Are you gonna call Portland and see if 846 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,199 I mean Ayden's way out of the price range. But 847 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,039 like r W three duop breath like there's you would 848 00:37:11,039 --> 00:37:13,719 assume Portland's gonna trade one of those guys. H get 849 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,760 get on the get on the phone to Dallas, gonna 850 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:20,880 give us Gafford, not getting Derek Lively. Probably all these 851 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,880 guys are Josh Hart just has to go out in 852 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,079 a bunch of these because you're the minimu level and 853 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,440 want we're talking about trades. But but I just don't 854 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,239 know how you get I struggle to come up with 855 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,920 the name that's like a clear massive upgrade. I think, 856 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:37,199 doesn't it feel most likely that it'll be like a 857 00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:40,119 minimum guy, like not the Biambo class, but like just 858 00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:42,480 a half step above that that the it's gonna wind 859 00:37:42,559 --> 00:37:43,760 up being the backup. 860 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,800 Speaker 2: Best player they could acquire via trade if we're or 861 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,280 free agency, if we're moving on from Kevin Durant is 862 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,360 Al Horford, Like that just feels like the best possible player, 863 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,320 and it still feels like a long shot. I was 864 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,159 gonna ask, though, is there just based off the assets 865 00:37:57,199 --> 00:37:59,280 they could have, or maybe they're turning swaps like can 866 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,239 you get cons that would be a pretty big upgrade. 867 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,639 Speaker 3: After yeah, or Saint Jordan Clarkson face If we're just 868 00:38:05,639 --> 00:38:08,559 gonna talk about Utah expiring contracts for scoring. 869 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 1: Guards John Collins? 870 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:14,039 Speaker 3: Can he playing Collins third? Big? Uh? Yeah? I don't know. 871 00:38:14,119 --> 00:38:17,199 Like the more we talk about it, the more it 872 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,079 seems like and maybe this is a good way to 873 00:38:19,079 --> 00:38:21,679 get into who's most likely to be traded, Like Josh 874 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,679 Hart just kind of keeps coming up for the range 875 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,239 of guy that they might be looking at. If you're 876 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,400 talking talking trade, just someone that makes, you know, in 877 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:33,400 the high teens or mid to high teens. It's just 878 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,559 gonna have to be hard, isn't it. 879 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,679 Speaker 2: I probably agree because I don't think you can. Like 880 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,599 it went from we were including Mitchell Robinson in any 881 00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:44,840 mid season trade possible to you can't trade that guy, Yeah, 882 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,400 you can't trade him. So and I just don't I 883 00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,239 don't see us an area on which you trade Michael 884 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:51,079 Bridges or ogn Andobi and get better. 885 00:38:51,599 --> 00:38:53,840 Speaker 1: I just don't see. I don't see. 886 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:55,679 Speaker 2: I Like, even if you were, I guess if you 887 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,119 were to trade them for Giannis would be the one. 888 00:38:58,159 --> 00:39:00,760 But the Knicks just are Yiannis have to go full 889 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:03,880 James Harden or Jimmy Butler to get to the Knicks, 890 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,400 So it has to be hard. But that runs like 891 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,559 who is the team that's I think Josh. 892 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:09,760 Speaker 1: Hart's a very useful player. 893 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 2: He's like he's also an emotional bell Weather for this team, 894 00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:15,119 but I don't know that he would have a ton 895 00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:15,960 of outside value. 896 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,719 Speaker 3: I think he's worth way more to the Knicks than 897 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,480 he has to other teams. I think that's right because 898 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,599 it's like it's much easier to just think of playing 899 00:39:25,159 --> 00:39:28,000 different skill sets in a similar like price range. Like 900 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:30,440 Malik Monk you just mentioned is like, yeah he needs 901 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,440 to go to Orlando or somewhere that needs this like 902 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,079 scoring guard. It's like, who needs the guy that's really 903 00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:38,880 good at offensive rebounds and playing hard and pushing in 904 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,639 transition for that pay rate? It's like, well, the Knicks 905 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,760 seem to but I, yeah, you're right, Like that player 906 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:48,960 type is paradoxically like, yeah, he's Josh Hart's pretty portable, 907 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,400 but also like that, I don't know what team sees 908 00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,480 a need Like that's the kind of needs you get 909 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,360 fulfilled by like a hustling ninth guy, you know, as 910 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,519 opposed to one that's like this key piece for the Knicks. So, 911 00:40:02,599 --> 00:40:06,639 like the value discrepancy is pretty pretty big there. So 912 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,599 just the reason I just kept mentioning him is because 913 00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:12,360 like the money that, like his salary just kind of 914 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,199 works for a lot of the type of players we're 915 00:40:14,199 --> 00:40:14,840 talking about. 916 00:40:15,639 --> 00:40:17,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're like Utah would be a good 917 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,719 example of where they probably don't mind having that salary 918 00:40:20,159 --> 00:40:21,920 on the books, and they could use someone who will 919 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,960 give a dam on the defensive end on the perimeter. 920 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,480 But it's like that he just runs so counter to 921 00:40:27,519 --> 00:40:30,000 their timeline, and it's what do you like, Josh Hart 922 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,639 and swaps for Colin Sexton? Is that really does that 923 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,280 get them thinking about it? Maybe you throw in a 924 00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:37,880 Tyler Kollik or Pocom Dottie and then it's now we 925 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:39,760 paid all that for an expiring Collins. 926 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,559 Speaker 1: It's they're in such a weird spot. So you think 927 00:40:42,559 --> 00:40:44,760 they're most likely to be traded, is Josh Hart? 928 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,519 Speaker 3: I mean the other option I think is just Cat 929 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,679 and and that presumes that a Durant deal is happening, 930 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,079 which you know we've talked about that a fair amount 931 00:40:54,519 --> 00:40:55,599 the just Cat's. 932 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,800 Speaker 2: Salary there, So Harry right, I was gonna say, is 933 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:01,119 there just a scenario where it's are you breaking karl 934 00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:02,840 Anthy Towns up into two or three players? 935 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: It's not another star? 936 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:09,159 Speaker 3: I mean, like what that might solve a lot of problems. Honestly, 937 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,159 it hits the depth that might get you the ball 938 00:41:11,159 --> 00:41:12,960 handler and you might get a backup big out of it. 939 00:41:13,119 --> 00:41:15,679 Just who where is that happening? 940 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,079 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna give you one. I don't know. 941 00:41:18,199 --> 00:41:22,519 Speaker 2: The money is so not gonna work here though, Karlthy 942 00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:27,679 Towns to Toronto for Yaka pertl O chaiak Baji. 943 00:41:27,679 --> 00:41:30,079 Speaker 1: And then more money. I don't know where that money's bringing. 944 00:41:30,199 --> 00:41:33,280 Speaker 3: J Barrett back? RJ Barrett facilitates now, I don't know 945 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,280 if you know he could be your secondary ball handler. 946 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,440 I mean, honestly, there's value to me in just not 947 00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:43,440 having to deal with Towns's contract anymore, don't you think? 948 00:41:43,639 --> 00:41:45,239 Don't you think the Knicks, Well, we just spent a 949 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,599 bunch of time talking about this crazy extension, like at 950 00:41:48,599 --> 00:41:52,360 some point, yeah, I mean that's pretty low. 951 00:41:52,559 --> 00:41:57,280 Speaker 2: Oh here, here's a deal still if they're serious about rebuilding, 952 00:41:57,639 --> 00:42:01,519 continuing to build around Zion Williamson, CJ. McCollum and Herb 953 00:42:01,599 --> 00:42:03,480 Jones for karl anthy Towns. 954 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,599 Speaker 3: I kind of like that one. That's kind of fun. 955 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:07,960 And Kat is like we kept trying to send Miles 956 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,880 Turner to New Orleans for one hundred off seasons. Kat 957 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,800 kind of doesn't scratch the defense. How bad is that 958 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,559 defense with him there and no herb? 959 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:18,880 Speaker 1: Yeah? 960 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 3: I do that if I'm the Knicks, don't you I yet? 961 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,400 Speaker 1: You still don't need to get a big at that point. 962 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:24,639 But that's the avenue they could go. 963 00:42:24,679 --> 00:42:26,119 Speaker 2: If we really wanted to cop out, we could say, 964 00:42:26,119 --> 00:42:28,239 most likely be trades like PJ. Tucker or Precious to 965 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,159 Chua and assign and trade or something like that. 966 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. Probably the answer probably is that you a just 967 00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:36,800 that's the easy one. Yeah, it's harder, Kat. 968 00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:40,320 Speaker 1: I think for me, you have anything else on this team? 969 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:41,360 You ready to take us out of here? 970 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,119 Speaker 3: I think that that's a lot of good talk about 971 00:42:44,159 --> 00:42:46,360 the Knicks. I don't feel like I'm any closer to 972 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,800 understanding how they'll get better or if they'll get better. 973 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,800 But thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Remember wherever you're 974 00:42:52,039 --> 00:42:54,719 consuming this, rate review, subscribe, leave us a positive review. 975 00:42:55,159 --> 00:42:59,760 If you're on YouTube, make sure you're communicating with us. There, 976 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,119 leave us some comments, questions, all that good stuff. Make 977 00:43:02,159 --> 00:43:04,000 sure you're subscribed there as well. Join our discord links 978 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,800 for that or in the YouTube and podcast description. Please 979 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,719 word of mouth helps Tell your friends about the podcast. 980 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,559 Tell your enemies even if they don't like it. We'll 981 00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:16,199 take the subs. That's gonna do it for us. Shouts 982 00:43:16,199 --> 00:43:17,760 praying to the Keen. Apologies, Jared Allen