WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:05.080 Well whiskey coming, fame, my. 2 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:11.519 Pain, the money, my ray. Why think alone when you 3 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:14.839 can drink it all in with Ricochet's Three Whiskey Happy Hour, 4 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:19.679 Join your bartenders, Steve Hayward, John Yu and the international 5 00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:26.359 woman of Mystery, Lucretia. 6 00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:28.280 Where they slapped it up and David, ain't you easy 7 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:31.199 on the sold chap got it giving? 8 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:38.640 Welcome everybody to another international edition of the Three Whiskey 9 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:43.159 Happy Hour, because Steve Hayward is still catlevanting around the 10 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:48.799 world checking out nuclear weapons sites in places like Ireland, Norway, 11 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:52.520 other places where the enemies of America who tried to 12 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:56.960 build nuclear weapons before, while Lucretia and I maintained the 13 00:00:57.039 --> 00:00:59.679 ramparts of defense for Fortress America. 14 00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:06.120 Well, first of all, lucky for you that I am 15 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:09.760 in Ireland, not far from the birthplace of Edmundburg, and 16 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:15.200 so I am feeling the full Burkian virtues of moderation, prudence, prescription, 17 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:19.000 and magnanimity, because otherwise I would go full George Washington 18 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:21.719 on you guys for last week's risky rebellion. I mean, 19 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:25.319 good grief. You say it'll be an analogy free episode 20 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:27.760 and then suddenly you go off talking about Lincoln and 21 00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.159 Hamilton and all kinds of historical precedents and analogies, as 22 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:36.920 though no one would notice this what those things. 23 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:41.719 Are actually relevant. It's not that you give historical analogies, 24 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:43.000 it's that they're irrelevant. 25 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:48.040 Oh nonsense. By the way, let's let us recall that 26 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:53.439 analogy was the method of Socrates in his dialogues. Right, yes, 27 00:01:53.719 --> 00:01:57.920 so they're well, they're often quite puzzling, just as I do. Right, 28 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:01.560 I am sorry. I will say that Lucretia, your account 29 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:05.359 of the distinction between political theory and political philosophy was 30 00:02:05.439 --> 00:02:07.280 just as I would have put it. I think, or 31 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:08.800 I agree with all of it. I was going to 32 00:02:08.840 --> 00:02:12.680 go about it in a complimentary way, not complimentary of 33 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:17.599 you know, your skill, but I mean compliment your arguments 34 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:19.840 something like that, right, And I was going to offer 35 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:22.080 something that I thought would be more accessible to the 36 00:02:22.520 --> 00:02:25.599 thick headed John Yu which is why I mentioned just 37 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:28.479 to give one example, because some listeners may know this one. 38 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:31.319 It was a big fashion fifteen years ago, John, you 39 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:33.879 may remember this. It was the resource curse. It was 40 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:37.080 all the big thing, and in simple forms what it 41 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:40.759 said was, as well, you know, countries that have high 42 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:44.520 amounts of their GDP from mineral extraction correlate with high 43 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:49.159 measures of correlation on the World Bank Index. And they 44 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:51.919 had all the fancy regressions, and it turned out it 45 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.439 didn't hold up very well on closer scrutiny by other 46 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:58.360 social scientists regression modelers. This is their theory. But look, 47 00:02:58.360 --> 00:03:01.439 what was this all about. First, an inability, as Lucretia 48 00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:03.719 points out, to ask sensible questions about, well, what's the 49 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:07.159 character of the regime. Maybe those countries are corrupt because 50 00:03:07.159 --> 00:03:11.439 they have corrupt rulers, not because they have oil and diamonds. Uh, 51 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.240 And they don't want to ask those kind of questions, Right, 52 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.199 that's a common sense point of view that political philosophy 53 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:19.599 would bring to the matter, that the social scientists, wanting 54 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:22.639 to avoid those kinds of moral distinctions, don't want to 55 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:23.560 ask those questions. 56 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:26.639 So that's the example of By the way, it's an 57 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:31.120 example of why it is you you mess these conversations 58 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:33.960 up because you take it so far on a tangent 59 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:38.080 that is so minorly related to the issue at hand 60 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:40.240 that we lose the train and go off in a 61 00:03:40.280 --> 00:03:41.000 different direction. 62 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.439 Yeah, it's the same point you made with Marxism, because what. 63 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.560 But I made it in two sentences. 64 00:03:47.199 --> 00:03:49.280 Well, I like to give examples that are accessible to 65 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:55.759 John as I say, well, what I feel. 66 00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:57.520 I feel like I'm a child of a divorce, and 67 00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:59.759 I've never been the child of a divorce, So this 68 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:01.919 is really interesting experience for me. 69 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:06.479 Keep going, Well, if I can finish that, The point is, 70 00:04:06.639 --> 00:04:10.719 what's what's behind that argument? What generated that argument by 71 00:04:10.719 --> 00:04:12.919 the social scientists? Well, because they're Marxists. They want to 72 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.719 attack capitalism, and they want to attack oil and gas 73 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:17.920 and minerals and all the rest of that. So you 74 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:21.240 can come up with a neutral sounding theory that turns 75 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:23.519 out to not hold up, and that avoids the serious 76 00:04:23.519 --> 00:04:27.319 political questions, and then that doesn't even hold up on 77 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:30.199 closer example. So it's a variety. It's a three layer, 78 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:34.319 three layered level of attack. And you like single layer cakes. 79 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:35.480 I know that Lucretia do. 80 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:38.600 Because you know what the problem is is that whenever 81 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:41.000 you do, That's why John never got it, because you 82 00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.879 always wanted to take it off in these things. He 83 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:47.399 understood it because I kept it at a foundational. 84 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.759 Wait wait, wait, you're proceeding on the assumption that I 85 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:50.879 understood the Cretia too. 86 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:52.439 I still don't get either of you people. 87 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:57.079 Oh, he can't take. 88 00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:00.879 Sides, analogies, non analogies, you guys, well don't make sense. 89 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:05.319 Well, so another day at the office. 90 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:09.240 Yes, well, Steve, you're just going to get more beatings 91 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:13.000 I think today since you started it by attacking Lucretia, 92 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:15.399 and Lucretia and I have been in your absence, we've 93 00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:17.439 been at a conference for the last two days here 94 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:22.639 at Berkeley about US and Latin American relations and the 95 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:27.120 future of governance and AI. It's been very interesting. But 96 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:33.240 Lucretia wasn't taking any prisoners on the immigration issue, even 97 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:36.959 though the audience I would think would be relatively pro 98 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:43.079 immigration rather hostile to Trump's immigration and tariff policies. And 99 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.959 nevertheless we engaged, and I think, I mean, they got 100 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:49.040 to see the debate that's rung on in the United States. 101 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:53.000 I'd say, Lucretia taking I think the pro Trump side, 102 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:54.920 I would say, and me taking the anti. 103 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:58.480 You know what, got the most positive comments though from 104 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:01.120 this there were a lot of students, Latin American students. 105 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:03.399 But that's a bit of a that's a bit of 106 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:06.839 a misnomer because most of the Latin American law students 107 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:09.600 who were there were already practicing lawyers, and didn't we 108 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:12.240 hear that there were actually two judges among. 109 00:06:14.839 --> 00:06:17.399 Students there, very good cross. 110 00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:21.560 Section, but they were all students who were already practicing. Anyway, 111 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:24.399 several of them came up to me to talk about 112 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:26.759 the one point I made, which is a very kind 113 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:30.560 of delicate, sticky point, and that is that the other 114 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:35.839 problem with illegal immigration, the kind or let me put 115 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:40.800 it the differently, the other problem with immigration of you know, 116 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:43.360 and Trump said, they're not sending us their best people. 117 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:47.480 But when they are sending us their best people, what's 118 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:51.720 happening to the countries from which they emigrate is that 119 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:56.759 they're losing those best people. And in terms of say 120 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:01.639 Latin America, the more of those those a lot smarter, 121 00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:05.160 more capable people, more driven people, whatever you want to say, 122 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:08.079 they leave Latin America and they end up staying in 123 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:11.839 the United States, and then Latin American countries lose that 124 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:13.319 valuable resource as well. 125 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:13.920 We were taught. 126 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:16.600 I was talking with a young woman from Ecuador who says, 127 00:07:16.600 --> 00:07:22.040 you know, they're just they're just art. I should I 128 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:24.079 say this nice? I'm trying not to be insulting, but 129 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:29.160 quality and start universities. I try not on some things, 130 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:32.199 you know, because I don't want to make fun But 131 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:35.439 but she she was actually saying, I know I because 132 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:38.560 she would. I think she told me she studied at 133 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:41.759 either Cornell somewhere like that. She says, and I know, 134 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:44.680 I need to go back to my country, but it's 135 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:46.920 so much easier to want to stay here where there's 136 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:51.000 so much more intellectual activity. And so anyway, my point 137 00:07:51.199 --> 00:07:54.240 was we don't want Latin America to end up like Haiti, 138 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:57.360 where anybody with any kind of sensibility at all has 139 00:07:57.439 --> 00:07:59.920 left Haiti and it's you know, I'll leave it at that. 140 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:04.639 And that was in fact, people didn't say that out 141 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:07.079 loud in the question and answer period, but at least 142 00:08:07.120 --> 00:08:09.079 a half a dozen people said that to me at 143 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:09.600 the conference. 144 00:08:09.680 --> 00:08:15.680 John Well, I think that's certainly aspect consequence of immigration. 145 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:16.600 It's certainly good. 146 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.639 I think good for the United States that the people 147 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:25.000 more ambitious or people who don't quite fit into their 148 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:29.079 existing societies but have ambition come to the United States. 149 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:34.639 But I'm not so sure it makes the home country 150 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:38.200 that much worse off. You could also say, I mean, 151 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:42.679 look at the Asian countries and the period after the 152 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:46.799 passage of the nineteen sixty five Immigration Act. And I 153 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:50.120 think one thing that happens, you know, countries like Korea 154 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:53.080 and Taiwan and Japan, places that did see a lot 155 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:54.879 of immigration here. 156 00:08:56.279 --> 00:08:57.759 Like my own experience, I. 157 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:00.440 Think those home countries improved because one thing, I think 158 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:04.679 a lot of those a lot of those immigrants sent 159 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:07.759 capital back, which is a lot of what those countries need. 160 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:10.399 You know, they have a lot of labor, but they 161 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:14.120 don't have capital. So if there are Korean doctors, for example, 162 00:09:14.159 --> 00:09:16.279 coming to the United States, they send money back home, 163 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:19.799 or Filipino nurses, you know, they send money back home, 164 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:22.960 and that really helps their countries because they really lack, 165 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:25.480 you know, capital, I think more than labor. 166 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:28.799 And then skilled labor. 167 00:09:28.919 --> 00:09:31.519 Yeah, I think so. And then I think the other 168 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:32.039 thing is. 169 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:37.960 Somehow those countries become Maybe this is I mean, I 170 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:40.320 don't have no proof, but it seems to these countries 171 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:44.559 become more American in the sense that they build ties 172 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:47.600 with us in their political systems, and they become more 173 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:51.639 allies of ours. Maybe they become more democratic and more 174 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:56.840 places with the rule of law and constitutional governance. That's 175 00:09:56.879 --> 00:09:59.840 certainly the story I think of Korea and Taiwan and Japan. 176 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:03.639 But I don't know, so it's not but that doesn't 177 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:05.639 seem I don't know if maybe that occurred in Latin America. 178 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:09.000 You know, one thing that I thought, also an interesting 179 00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:13.080 dynamic I saw amongst the faculty and students was not 180 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:15.600 just that they're sending a lot of people here. A 181 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:17.879 lot of people want to come, and it is many 182 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:20.639 of their best and brightest. But Latin America has done 183 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:24.279 extremely well the last thirty years until just recently that 184 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:27.279 a lot of these people who came to the US 185 00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:30.320 for training went back to their countries and helped them 186 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:33.919 adopt the right policies right that led their countries out 187 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:37.840 of you know, economic stagnation. But once they let the 188 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:41.919 people vote, the people seem to vote for populist communist 189 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:46.679 Marxists and are I think, backsliding on the success of 190 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:50.519 their countries most recently. Anyway, So now that we're done, 191 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:53.039 now that people don't have to come to our conference, 192 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:55.480 because Lucretia and I wrapped up basically most of what 193 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:58.320 we said, we can turn now to beating up on 194 00:10:58.440 --> 00:11:00.679 Steve again and then talk I think about the very 195 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:03.399 first topic, which of course has got to be the 196 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:04.840 Israel Iran War. 197 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:09.440 Oh Steve, what Steve? You had an interjection? 198 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:11.679 Well, no, I was going to say more about the 199 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:13.840 Latin American stuff you brought up in development, but I 200 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.840 think that would take as far afield as a certain 201 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:18.519 third person on the podcast might say. 202 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:23.480 I've said, well, let's talk that say that. 203 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:24.279 I'll just say this one. 204 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:25.279 Go ahead, go ahead. 205 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:28.240 When you say these countries become more like America, well yes, 206 00:11:28.279 --> 00:11:30.600 but is it the America of Chicago or the America 207 00:11:30.639 --> 00:11:33.399 of Houston, Texas? And that's the real nub of the 208 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:35.279 question sequels to follow. 209 00:11:35.919 --> 00:11:41.639 Okay, well, I'm glad Steve wasn't at the conference, So 210 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:48.039 why don't we turn to the what's going on? I 211 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:51.879 think everybody of course has to have this on top 212 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:55.320 of mind. Is what has happened in the I would 213 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:56.799 say the Israel Iran War. 214 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:58.799 I mean, that's what it's become. I want. 215 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:03.200 Israel is conducting a massive bombing campaign now and is 216 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:09.200 over Iran has air supremacy, air supremacy, air superiority over Iran, 217 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:11.799 where the Iranian Air Force doesn't seem to be able 218 00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:16.600 to get off the ground. Israel is systematically dismantling air defenses, 219 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:19.519 and they seem to be operating with virtual impunity in 220 00:12:19.559 --> 00:12:25.120 the skies over Tehran, and they have. Israel has tried 221 00:12:25.159 --> 00:12:30.440 to decapitate the military and intelligence leadership of Iran, seems successfully, 222 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:33.600 and has tried to destroy one of the two major 223 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:39.080 Iranian nuclear weapons sites. So the big question in Washington 224 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:44.519 and nationwide is should the United States enter the war? Because, 225 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:49.559 excuse me, the major Iranian nuclear weapons program is built 226 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:55.000 under an enormous mountain called four Do and it appears 227 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:56.679 Israel cannot. 228 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:57.440 Destroy that facility. 229 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:01.159 The only country that can destroy with conventional weapons, mind you, 230 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:04.519 is the United States. The United States has in its 231 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:09.759 possession a special bomb built specifically to destroy such facilities. 232 00:13:09.879 --> 00:13:12.440 I'm sorry, why can't we just give those to Israel? 233 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.399 This is this is a possible line of action. Yeah, 234 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.840 the bunker bust, which is thirty two thousand pounds in 235 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:27.519 one bomb. To give you perspective, the standard massive bomb 236 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:30.279 the United States uses is two thousand pounds, So this 237 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:33.000 is a thirty two thousand pound bomb and can only 238 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:39.240 be delivered apparently by US strategic bombers. So President Trump appears, 239 00:13:39.279 --> 00:13:44.360 according to leaks, has approved the plans to drop these 240 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:47.440 munitions on the Iranian new cressee, but has said he 241 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:51.159 will not give the order yes or no on whether 242 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:55.399 to actually attack until the very last minute. And so, Lucretia, 243 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:58.679 why don't you start and then Steve, since Steve might 244 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.919 be abroad when the war starts and the United States 245 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:05.720 bombs around and may be taken hostage by Iranian agents abroad, 246 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:06.559 and we may never. 247 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:12.639 Let him go first, go ahead, Well, I would just 248 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:17.639 I probably would argue that for many years Iran and 249 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:21.240 its proxies have unleashed terror on the world. They have 250 00:14:21.399 --> 00:14:24.399 promised that they will destroy Israel. They have called for 251 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:28.000 death to America. There does seem to be credible information 252 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:32.240 out there that they've tried to kill Trump. We know, 253 00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:38.480 even your friend the mustache John Bolton, you know, so 254 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:45.960 there's no doubt that devastating Iran is in the interest 255 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.519 of world peace. You know, we can have all the 256 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.480 moral equivalents in the world. I'm not playing that game. However, 257 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:55.039 you know, the Iranians have launched something on the order 258 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:58.000 of a thousand drones and not one of them have 259 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.240 made it into Israel. There's all of it. So's it's 260 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:04.919 very clear that Israel, as you say, has air superiority. 261 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.279 They have superiority in this fight, but until they can 262 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:13.559 actually destroy the nuclear facilities, the threat is not over. 263 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:16.080 So I think what needs to happen. And Trump is 264 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.799 right to keep his plans close to the vest, but 265 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:23.000 I think he needs to give those bombs to Israel 266 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:26.159 or somehow make sure that Israel if we have I 267 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:28.240 don't know how you fly it through to thirty two 268 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:34.039 thousand pound bomb, but bomb the Iranian nuclear sites. Get 269 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.840 it over with and let the people of Iran re 270 00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:43.240 establish what life the way, get rid of that regime 271 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:46.360 and re establish life the way they want to do it. 272 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:52.679 No neat original gangs in New yorkhan nation building. Just 273 00:15:53.440 --> 00:15:58.279 help the get rid of the nuclear problem. The rest 274 00:15:58.279 --> 00:15:59.639 of it, I think will take care of itself. 275 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:06.960 Go ah, So Lucretia, notice everyone has broken ranks with 276 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:09.399 her usual fellow travelers. 277 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:12.360 Tucker Carlson and oh Steve. 278 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:18.279 Well, no, look, yeah, that's right. I wouldn't be surprised 279 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:20.159 if Israel has designed it may be built the bunker 280 00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.320 buster bomb, but they can't deliver it with the planes 281 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:25.440 they have. It does take a heavy bomber, and nobody 282 00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:27.919 has that except us, and I guess the British I suppose. 283 00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:29.799 I'm not sure what heavy bombers they used toll le 284 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:32.840 the Lancasters, whatever. But look, we've got a lot of 285 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:36.000 B fifty two's that are mothballed. We want to sell 286 00:16:36.039 --> 00:16:39.559 them one and apparently the Israelis several years ago said 287 00:16:39.559 --> 00:16:41.799 would you lease us or sell us a B fifty two? 288 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.519 And Trump one apparently said interesting idea, We'll think about it. 289 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.000 So I think, you know, let them do it, I mean, 290 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:51.879 or sell them. Are bunker buster bombs. Now you know, 291 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.039 I'm not an expert on these things. I've seen some 292 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.399 people dispute whether even our bunker busting bombs can get 293 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:01.120 all the way down to the level they may have 294 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:03.840 buried the sided Ford. Now I have a couple of 295 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:06.640 strange thoughts on this, which one is is that we've 296 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:10.039 left the we Israelis have left the place largely untouched 297 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:13.720 so far, and meanwhile they're degrading the rest of Iran. 298 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:15.680 And you know, if you actually have a revolution in 299 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.559 Iran that throws out the current regime, then guess what 300 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.440 that problem solves itself. You could let an international force 301 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:25.160 come in and dismantle that place without having to vombit 302 00:17:25.720 --> 00:17:28.960 with inconclusive results, perhaps without involving us in it. That's 303 00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:33.599 one possible outcome. The other possibility is you have a 304 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:36.119 multinational force. In other words, is rarely send in a 305 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:39.839 commando force backed by some Arab states that provide the 306 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:44.079 sanitary cordon for them to conduct a ground operation against 307 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:46.880 that facility. That would be an interesting and you know, 308 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.279 typically nervy play that I'll bet the Israelis have a 309 00:17:49.319 --> 00:17:51.720 plan for the thurin Is. Then we do it, like 310 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:55.119 people are saying, and you know, I'll bet Trump is 311 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.039 willing to, but I'll bet he really doesn't want to 312 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:01.759 for all the usual reasons that people can name. And finally, 313 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:06.720 here's the wild card in it. I guess if you 314 00:18:06.759 --> 00:18:08.759 ask me should we do it? I think my answer 315 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:12.519 is yes we should. And one reason why is I've 316 00:18:12.519 --> 00:18:14.519 heard some rumors from a couple of people whose views 317 00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:18.039 I respect that there's a possibility that Ron has a bomb. 318 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:21.599 They may have they didn't build on themselves. They might 319 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:25.319 have been given one by North Korea or Pakistan, who 320 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:27.799 they have been working closely with on this whole project 321 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:31.000 for fifteen twenty years now, and they still have some missiles, 322 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:33.640 and they may be holding back on using a nuke 323 00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:35.480 against Israel because they might only have one or two 324 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:37.880 and that's not enough. And they know what would happen 325 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:41.079 if they knew Israel however, if we go in and 326 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:44.000 take out their nuclear installation, that's the end of their program. 327 00:18:44.359 --> 00:18:47.039 And they know that any nuclear strike on Israel that 328 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:49.240 now that we're formally allied with them, would bring us 329 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:52.440 into it and bring down complete devastation on what's left 330 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:55.200 inn Ran. So there's a few scenarios for you and 331 00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:56.759 why I think we ought to do it, or at 332 00:18:56.839 --> 00:18:59.599 least sell the israelis a B fifty two bomber and 333 00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:00.359 the bomb to. 334 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:00.680 Go with it. 335 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:04.680 Steve, I always thought you looked like that guy in 336 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:07.519 Doctor Strangelove who's flying to be fifty two. 337 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:13.160 At the end. You know, that's what you know. That 338 00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:14.880 was your hero when you were growing up. 339 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:17.039 That was the great Slim Pickens. 340 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:22.359 Yes, right, So let me maybe also ask you to 341 00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.839 address the domestic dimension of this, which is crackup of 342 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:30.880 the Mega Coalition. It sounds like you and Lucretia have 343 00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:34.440 now joined on with the Forever War people and turned 344 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:36.400 your back on the Mega. 345 00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.839 Foreign policy is only. 346 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:42.519 About nineteen percent. By the way, John, a megaworld of 347 00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:48.759 Republicans who are totally who are totally against any kind 348 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.440 of activity by the United States whatsoever in the Middle 349 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.200 East only. I mean, it's it's it's an eighty twenty 350 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.559 issue in MEGA. Because MEGA most for the most partns stupid. 351 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:07.079 They're you know, this is why does this you say 352 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:12.400 most of MEGA is Stupidian not stupid, was not stupid, 353 00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:16.799 but but it's they're prominent commentators in MEGA. 354 00:20:17.200 --> 00:20:19.079 I get Tecker, Carlson, Charlie Kirk. 355 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:23.480 I think also uh saying making claims that this is 356 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:27.799 an effort. It's echoes of Lucretia, right, there's an effort 357 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:32.079 by the military industrial complex to draw the US back 358 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:34.440 into foreign wars and foreign engagement. 359 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:36.519 That's what they've been saying. 360 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:42.880 Distinctions like between getting US involved in Ukraine and getting 361 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:47.960 US involved in this thing in Middle East. Then you're 362 00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:50.000 hear an idiot and you don't deserve to be talking 363 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:53.839 about it. I'm sorry, it was what we talked about 364 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:56.480 really quickly. Sorry, Steve, But what we talked about last week. 365 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:01.160 What I hate about these theories and the these positions 366 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:04.839 is that they're you know, they just make you lazy, 367 00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:09.559 intellectually unable to make moral distinctions, political distinctions, all of 368 00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:12.880 those things. There is a distinction between the United States 369 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:18.599 sending Israel the capability it needs to destroy nuclear weapons 370 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:21.799 in Iran, which is an existential problem, and the United 371 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:27.440 States getting involved in Ukraine in its regional conflict with Russia. Sorry, 372 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:29.079 there you go, Steve. 373 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:31.599 Now John typical, you would name a couple of clowns 374 00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:34.359 like Tucker Carlson, who's gone nuts, and Charlie Kirk, who's 375 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:38.359 not a serious person. I think the most serious sput 376 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:40.839 it this way. The most interesting commentary on this in 377 00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:43.400 the last couple of days comes from a very unlikely source. 378 00:21:43.960 --> 00:21:49.039 It's Paul Gottfried, one of the original paleocons at Chronicles magazine. 379 00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:54.839 Oh no, he's well known in the paleocon Russell Kirk 380 00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:55.240 type world. 381 00:21:55.319 --> 00:21:59.480 Right, the paleocons. They don't even get those people. 382 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.039 But you did not interrupt me, please, Lucretia, just for once, please. 383 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:06.559 Paul is well known as one of the leading critics 384 00:22:06.599 --> 00:22:10.200 of neocons for thirty years. He said, let me read 385 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.200 you one of the things he said in Chronicles yesterday 386 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:16.400 quote in my own view as a grizzled anti neocon warrior. 387 00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:19.359 I see no reason why our position should always be 388 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:23.000 the exact opposite of what the neocons are advocating. Even 389 00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:25.880 the obsessions of our enemies. He thinks neocons are our 390 00:22:25.960 --> 00:22:29.440 enemies can occasionally be correct, as I think they are 391 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.559 about Iran and the danger it poses as a terrorist state. Personally, 392 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:36.200 I'm delighted that the Israelis have bombed at least some 393 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:39.319 of the mubbe's nuclear installations, and I wouldn't cry if 394 00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:41.880 President Trump decides to go after the rest of Iran's 395 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.640 nuclear facilities by dropping a bunker bomb. Now I know, Lucretia, 396 00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.240 you don't care about Paul Godfrey and don't know who 397 00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:51.480 he is. He carries a lot of weight, He carries 398 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:54.079 a lot of weight with the paleocon world, and for 399 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:56.240 him to come out like this is a big deal. 400 00:22:56.440 --> 00:23:01.720 Sorry, I just don't understand how they the mega people, 401 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:04.839