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Speaker 1: On this episode of Master the NEC, we're gonna talk

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about why the electrical industry desperately needs certified thermal electricians

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and how misinformation from untrained thermographers is actually hurting customers,

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damaging trust, and in some cases putting people at risk.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so we're gonna give you some.

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Speaker 1: Real examples, some real numbers, some real scenarios, not hype

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on today's episode.

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Speaker 2: Go ahead, folks, let's go on and roll that intro music.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to the Master of the NEC podcast, the ultimate

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destination for anyone passionate about the electrical trade. Whether you're

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a season electrician, an eager apprentice, were just someone who

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wants to dive deep into the world of electrical work,

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you've come to the right place. Join your host, Paul Abernavi,

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a true authority in the industry with over thirty eight

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years of trade experience, as he electrifies your mind within discussions,

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expert tips, and valuable insights that will keep you ahead

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of the curve. Each episode, Paul will illuminate the complexities

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of the trade, decode the national electrical Code, and share

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the latest industry trends, all while empowering you to take

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your electrical career to the next level. So gar up,

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plug in, and get ready to supercharge your knowledge because

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with the Master of the Neez podcast, the power is

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in your hands.

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Speaker 2: Now get ready. Here is your host, Paul Abernafi's.

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Speaker 3: What Up? What Up?

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Speaker 2: Everybody?

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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Master the NEC Podcast. I'm

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your host, Paul Abernathy, and today we're going to be

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deep diving into a subject that is absolutely shaking the thermal

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imaging world. Look, if you're an electrician, whether you're a

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maintenance electrician, industrial electrician, even residential and commercial, if you

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don't know what thermography is, or if you haven't figured

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out how to incorporate that into your business, you need

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to think about doing that. Look, we've been doing this

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type of stuff for nearly forty years. Most people know

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me as the guy who teaches the National Electrical Code.

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But y'all obviously know that I have forty years coming

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up on forty years in the trade. I've done thermography.

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I have troubleshoot a lot of things through my years,

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and obviously when I'm teaching, there's no way that I

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could teach these topics without being intimate with them and

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understanding them. And so when I set out to create

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the Ultimate Thermography for Electricians type program, I was really

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looking at what was missing in the industry and a

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couple things. And y'all know me, those that listen to

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me regularly know that when there's a problem and I

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see a problem, I usually go after it with both

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guns blazing. And one of the things that I started

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to see was that thermography is not new.

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Speaker 2: It's been around for a while.

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Speaker 1: And of course the cameras today have gotten amazing. And

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if you haven't heard, we just did a partnership with Milese,

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and so you know we are going to be doing

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a extreme deep dive into their thermal imaging cameras. I've

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used their cameras. They're a great piece of equipment. When

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they're in the right hands, we're in the wrong hands.

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They basically can give false, misleading information and basically it

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hurts the industry if you don't have proper training. So

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when I decided to create a program, one of the

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things I want to do is one explain thermography from

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an electrician standpoint, because there's a big difference between somebody

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just saying they're a thermal imaging expert they are level one,

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level two, level three, but they don't all They're not

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always electricians. And that's a big deal for me because

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majority of what I teach and what we go through

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in our programs, you have to understand in.

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Speaker 2: The electrical basics.

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Speaker 1: You have to understand the loading and amps and current

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draw and duty cycles, and there's so many things that

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you need to understand.

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Speaker 2: Voltage drop and how.

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Speaker 1: That can play effects on poor terminations or heat migrations

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and all those things are critically important. And so when

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I set out to create a program, one of the

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core things was to say, look, I want to take

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electricians who may not understand what thermography is. They may

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not even have ever added it into what they do.

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In fact, you could have been working in electricity your

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entire career and you might not have never put the

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thermal imaging camera in your hand. And you know, I

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tend to say that the electricians that don't embrace thermal

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imaging as a tool that they should have on their

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truck just like any other tool they have, then you're

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missing out on being able to reduce time and troubleshooting

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trying to find and be proactive and things. Is that

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your customer needs to be aware of. It can be

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an extremely helpful diagnostic tool. Obviously, it can't predict failure.

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That's why you're trained to look at something and look

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at the condition of use, and look at the exposure

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and try to educate your customer. But at the end

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of the day, these are all tools that help you

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give get a better picture of a situation. And so

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I set out to create a program because you know what,

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even today and I just experienced it today, there's so

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much misinformation. And when I got into this and decided

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I wanted to create a very detailed program on this

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with a bunch of examples for motors and transformers and

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give you some temperature examples. Again, you know, thermal imaging

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cameras are not brain surgery.

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Speaker 2: And understand it.

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Speaker 1: Once you learn distances and reflection, emissivity, and understanding how

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to set these things and how to adjust for angles

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so that you're not actually reading it wrong, which may

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be you know, body heat or radiation or sunlight or reflection.

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Speaker 2: And once you start understanding.

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Speaker 1: Things like breakers and what their temperature normally would be,

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and so that you're not kind of crying wolf when

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you see something that's a little higher than normal. You're like, well,

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it's still maybe within the realm of the operation of

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the breaker. Understanding that the insulation' rating on conductors, you

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may see a temperature and you're going to go crying

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wolf and you're really not anywhere near the volatility of

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the insulation. We want you to understand those things without

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having to cry wolf. But we also want you to

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be able to identify things that you can tell your customer.

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And if you're in maintenance prevented a maintenance, these are

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things that you want to document for ongoing preventive maintenance.

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And that's why NFPA seven d B is now really

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making it something that thermal imaging is an important component

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of that document and it's now an enforceable document rather

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than just a a voluntary document. So all these things

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are changing, and of course with the advent of data

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centers and large equipment and large motors, the uptime is

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extremely important to the client. So being able to look

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at something and try to be a little predictive and

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help that customer is something that you need to learn

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and all electricians should embrace it. If you think you

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know it all, you don't. And I promise you that

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you don't know thermography unless you've been involved in it,

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that type of thing. And I've been involved with it

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for years, uh, and it's part of my practice. And

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then when I sold all my businesses, you know, I

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never thought that I needed to teach somebody thermography or

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introduce a program. But of course y'all know I teach programs.

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So it just dawndled me.

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Speaker 2: Let's go on and.

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Speaker 1: Create what I feel is the best, you know, program

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out there. And I did not want to create a

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program that we teach building envelope, that we teach uh

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things like insulation.

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Speaker 2: That's not my deal.

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Speaker 1: I'm an electrician, okay, I'm gonnalectricians electrician. I create stuff

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for electricians. And so that's what we did, and that's

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when we came up with the Certified Thermal Electrician. The

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trademarks are already filed. Uh. It's a program I think

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that's not going away. Just recently we SILE signed a

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partnership with Milesy Tools, which makes some amazing sets of

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thermal imaging cameras that we'll be talking about more in

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the future, even doing some videos on them so you

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can really see the difference, uh in what's difference between

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low tier professional grade and how you can even use

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a much higher detailed unit for more stationary things like

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switch gear that allow you to get really high images.

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Speaker 2: That you can use in reports.

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Speaker 1: But we'll cover all that stuff, But what I wanted

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to do was talk about some issues that I'm seeing

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and how misinformation can be spread by people that don't

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have the proper training.

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Speaker 2: And look, I'm not bashing.

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Speaker 1: I'm not here to bash somebody who says they're a

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thermal expert and they've been through level one, level two,

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level three thermography training. It's some other program. I'm not

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here to do that. I'm just sitting here to say, look,

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those training is always great, and you know there are

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some amazing educators out there in thermography world.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying we tend to.

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Speaker 1: Want to deep dive in electrical I support the CTEs

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okay in that, because I am always going to be

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here to answer questions for them and give them the

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support as being part of our program.

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Speaker 2: So there's more to that.

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Speaker 1: They get an NEC consultant, and they get somebody that

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can bounce things off of and review and look at

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images and give them feedback those type of things. That's

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what we wanted to create the program for. So let's

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kind of look at some things. We want to talk

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real numbers, real examples, real scenarios, no hype here, that

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type of thing. So let's break this down. It's okay,

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number one one, let's look at this. Here is the

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rise of thermal experts. Now in today's world on TikTok, Instagram, eBay,

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whatever it is, everyone has a thermal imaging camera.

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Speaker 2: They can just get them.

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Speaker 1: And now they they've really in the last couple of years,

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the prices have really come down. It was a time

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when a thermal imaging camera of any decent quality was

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going to cost you three and four thousand dollars and

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that's just not the case anymore. And in fact, many cases,

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it's a total waste of money to go with something

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that is that expensive to do what we do in

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the electrical world, it's just unnecessary. But there are certain

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features that are beneficial for like, for example, I highly

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recommend the tr twenty pro which is from Miles, because

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it's a dual camera setup and that type of thing,

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so it's actually going to have two cameras, one for

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the visible image and one for the infrared image, and

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that's going to be great for your reports.

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Speaker 2: Not all cameras have that. Now.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you can do a thermal picture and then

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take a regular picture with a camera that is also

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doable as well. But at the end of the day,

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if it's already built in, then it just makes life

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a little easier, right, So that's what we're going to

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talk about.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Everybody and their brother can get a thermal imaging camera today,

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but not everyone has the knowledge to use it. Now,

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all you've got to do is spend about an hour

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on TikTok, Instagram, whatever and see people that are pushing

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the thermal imaging cameras and you know, usually they're affiliates

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for the manufacturers, but they're pushing these cameras and they're

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just you know, shooting it around the room, taking pictures

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of their hand, looking at certain things, you know, and

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they're trying to get you to buy it, and you

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look at it and you go, that's coolest shit. I

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want to have something like that, because, again, is this

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technology that for years was out of our price range

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from most technicians, and so now they're available. The problem

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is nobody knows how to use it. They don't know

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how to use it. They don't know what the color

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patterns mean, the options and the color patterns with the heat,

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and how it transfers down a conductor, or where to

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actually the angle to actually take the actual image, and

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they don't understand it. And so what happens is they

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get values that are misleading. They might not be high

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enough or they might be too low, and they give

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this information to their customer and then they start saying

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things like, look, you see this here, this is a

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loose termination. Because of that, you're wasting energy because over

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time it's arcing and it's energy, and they start to

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take this customer down this and that's misleading to me. Okay,

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so today thermal cameras are cheap and more available than ever.

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If you go to our website thermal Electrician dot com,

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you will see under the info tab you will see

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the ones that we recommend, and you can even get

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a ten percent discount if you order. You're not going

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to be a bye through me, so don't worry. You're

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not giving your credit card to us. You click on it,

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you will automatically get a pop up that'll tell you

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about you getting additional ten percent off, and if they're

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running a special, you get ten percent off that special. Okay,

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so always keep an eye for the specials that I'm

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just saying. All right now, people buy one and suddenly

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they think they're thermal experts. They really look at it

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and say, oh, obviously this is easy, right the red

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or the white depending on the scale, And they look

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at it and.

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Speaker 2: Go, oh, that's a hot spot. That's a problem.

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Speaker 1: They don't understand they're taking readings and they're not even

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removing covers. They don't understand how to adjust the emissivity

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based on the material that they're scanning. They don't understand

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black body theory in what happens with the emittance of

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this energy. That they don't get it, but yet they'll

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hold themselves out as a thermal expert. Now, look, I'm

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not here to tell people how to do their business.

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But what I am here to do is say that

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I can promise you that we want to make sure

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that again it's not brain surgery, but we want to

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make sure you have some viable examples, some temperature differentials,

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the delta tea's, things like that in our course that

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you can actually use and all you're doing is substituting

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what you experience in the field with the information that

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we give you. And if you make it very plain

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and simple, keep the lessons short in our courses because

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we really want to focus on the material, because I

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believe reading comprehension is extremely important. You can look at

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an image all you want, and you can go get

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your own images, but you have to understand temperatures.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Colors are one thing, okay, but you have to understand

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temperatures highs, lows, and how to do a peer review.

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All these things are extremely important. Not just look at colors.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Social media is again y'all know my love hate relationship

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with social media, but that amplifies this issue. People post

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thermograms and they make bold claims without understanding electrical science.

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Speaker 2: They don't get it right.

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Speaker 1: So look, just because somebody buys a three hundred dollars

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thermal camera does not make them a thermographer and absolutely

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does not make them an electrial diagnostic professional. Now you

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already have a leg up. If you're listening to this

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and you're a licensed to electrician, you already have a

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leg up on most thermographers.

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Speaker 2: Okay, because you're an electrician.

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Speaker 1: Remember a lot of these thermal cameras are used by

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home inspectors. Home inspectors are in no way are they

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electrical experts. But you have people that specialize in thermography

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that went through a level one level to a level

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three that never held an electrical license in their life.

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And do you really want that person making judgment on

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things and not understanding why this might be what it is,

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or look at a conductor and see the consistency, or

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understanding when you may have a phase in a three

293
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phase it's overloaded, and why there's so many things that

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you're really not going to get Unless you've been in

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this trade, you understand it. And so that's why we

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cater to electricians because we believe that they're in the

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perfect situation to be thermal imaging experts. And all we

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want to do is give them some examples in thermography

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to help spawn them into that career and add these

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services to their business. Okay, So look, you wouldn't hand

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somebody a megameter and suddenly call them a motor specialist, okay,

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Or hand them a megameter and all of a sudden,

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or give them a thermal insulation tester and all of

304
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a sudden, they're an expert. Okay, same thing here. A

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thermal camera is a tool, not a qualification. You only

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get better as you work it, as you get used

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to seeing the images, as you get used to it,

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you will get better.

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Speaker 2: And it takes time.

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Speaker 1: It's not instant, right, So just because they buy a

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camera does not make them an expert. That's what we're

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going to try to do in our Certified Thermal Electrician program.

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Now here's a problem, the problem with this industry right

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now from what I've seen and the reason that I

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spawned the creation of this program and even the program

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that I made for the everyday consumer, because we have

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a thermal imaging Beginner's course that's just for anybody that

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buys a thermal imaging camera, because you know what, if

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you're going to buy one and you're not qualified enough

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to be an expert, you at least need to know

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how to use one. And none of the manufacturers anywhere

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give you a very detailed course to understand emissivity and

323
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how it plays a role in distance and position, and

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they don't.

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Speaker 2: They don't give you any of that.

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Speaker 1: So I felt it was extremely vital for me to

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create a basic program for people as well, so that

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somebody's going to buy that low end one hundred and

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thirty dollars thermal imaging camera, that they at least get

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some basic understanding. And so we created a very extensive

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basic program that's available as well over on fasttracksystem dot com.

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So anybody that you don't have to be an expert,

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but let me tell you what. If you're just wanting

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to get into this, you should get that. It's like

335
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sixty nine to ninety five and it's basically over thirty

336
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lessons or thirty modules. I mean, it's it's massive, and

337
00:18:38,279 --> 00:18:41,039
you'll get a lot out of it, I promise you. Okay,

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all right, so here's the deal. Let's use some real

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world examples. So recently I saw someone post on a

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social platform and they made a claim that a point

341
00:18:55,319 --> 00:18:59,440
one ome loose connection. Okay, so it's point one of

342
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an ome a loose connection was wasting you ready. He

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made a statement that it was wasting eighteen thousand, seven

344
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hundred and twenty dollars a year in energy. Okay, just

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a point one owme loose connection. Now, I want you

346
00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:21,920
to think about that. How would they even know that

347
00:19:23,519 --> 00:19:27,880
to make that claim, because you know what. To know that,

348
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:31,000
you'd have to know how to measure the current. You'd

349
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have to know the log the duty cycle. You'd have

350
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to know if they quantify the voltage drop across that

351
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point one ome connection. No, they simply took a picture

352
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and made up some numbers. Right, So look, a thermal

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camera shows heat, it doesn't show amperage, doesn't show power,

354
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doesn't show kill.

355
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Speaker 2: A WoT our costs doesn't show any of that.

356
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Speaker 1: Without knowing the load, you cannot calculate the ice squared

357
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are losses a very predictable formula. Amps times amps times

358
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are okay, I square it are. You can't know these

359
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things unless you know what the measured current is, what

360
00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:30,880
the log of the duty cycle is, what the vaultage

361
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drop is across that point one om of loose connection.

362
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If you state it otherwise, all you're doing is misleading somebody.

363
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You cannot convert temperature into dollars without real electrical measurements.

364
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Now when people do that or and I'll be honest

365
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with you, In our programs we go out of our

366
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way to explain how you explain things. In fact, we

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spend multiple modules explaining how to work with the customer

368
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how to make sure you're providing them with accurate information

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and not snake oil.

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Speaker 2: Really, because you know what, the moment you do in this.

371
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Speaker 1: Industry, the customer loses trust, contractors are misled, legitimate thermographers

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look unprofessional, and electrics electricians start thinking thermal imaging is

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snake oil. And that's when you all of a sudden

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get people on mic wholt forums and other forums all

375
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talking about it's snake oil and they having a clue

376
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either how you use thermography. But they're easy to start

377
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jumping on that naysayer's bandwagon because there's so many people

378
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out there that post things that aren't posting accurate information.

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Speaker 2: The facts, the facts. Okay, Now, what makes.

380
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Speaker 1: A CTE or certified therminal electrician, what makes them better?

381
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 2: What makes them different?

382
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Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about that for a second. A certified

383
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therminal electrician through our program, first of all, they're an electrician. Second,

384
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it's trained in both thermal science and electrical science, and

385
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they have people to reach out to to assist them

386
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at any point that they're confused in the two Okay, right,

387
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:25,000
not one, not just thermal science education, but electrical science education.

388
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Speaker 2: Okay, not one, but both.

389
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Speaker 1: Now, CTEs understand loading characteristics, ANYC based principles. I squhere

390
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:40,400
are heating voltage, drop resistance faults. In our program, they

391
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,440
also learn about thermal maintenance with NFPA seventy B and

392
00:22:44,519 --> 00:22:50,200
we also talk about conductors and terminal behavior under various loads. Okay,

393
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,839
so the CTEs don't guess, they calculate, they measure, and

394
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they confirm the data before they make any outlandish claims.

395
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Speaker 2: Now, again, I'm.

396
00:23:01,079 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: Not here to scare other thermographers out there that do

397
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a great job, and there's many them out there that

398
00:23:06,839 --> 00:23:10,519
understand these basic core fundamentals. But if we don't get

399
00:23:10,559 --> 00:23:14,279
back to making sure that we don't make outlandish claims

400
00:23:15,559 --> 00:23:19,799
without information. Now, temperature differentials or delta te's and all

401
00:23:19,799 --> 00:23:24,039
that's that's a proven science. We cover it. It's important

402
00:23:24,079 --> 00:23:26,519
to give them a heads up. It's also important to

403
00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:29,160
know when temperatures above and operating temperature of a piece

404
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:33,599
of equipment. That's all great, and even on our website

405
00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:37,279
we give you some free tools, free calculators that you

406
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can use in the field.

407
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Speaker 2: A delta TE calculator.

408
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,119
Speaker 1: It looks for the difference in the and we talk

409
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about that is all included, but we give you some

410
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,160
calculators to help that along the way, so that you

411
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make sure that whatever you're telling your customer is accurate,

412
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:55,880
because at the end of the day, it's if you've

413
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got to make things up in order to get the sale,

414
00:23:59,519 --> 00:24:03,240
then you're going about it all wrong and you're liable

415
00:24:03,319 --> 00:24:06,680
to get that one sale. And somebody points out that

416
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,240
that's just not how it works.

417
00:24:09,599 --> 00:24:10,759
Speaker 2: And then the.

418
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: Next thing, you know, it's almost like engineering, right, how

419
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:15,440
many times have you heard the person say, well, you

420
00:24:15,519 --> 00:24:17,880
know what if we just take a car and we

421
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,440
put motors and generators on the wheels, and two in

422
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,000
the front and to the back, and when it's running,

423
00:24:23,039 --> 00:24:25,359
it's charged. The front wheels are charging one battery and

424
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,319
the other one's charging the other. Or or how about

425
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,880
the person that says, well, well, let's put a wind

426
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,640
turbine on it and as you're going down the road,

427
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,720
it'll spind the turbine, it'll charge. No, there's diminishing losses here.

428
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,759
So you're burning energy to make energy, and you're burning

429
00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:44,799
it at a higher rate than you're producing it, and

430
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:48,319
so it's it's it's the basically it's the science of

431
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,039
diminishing return. And so when people look at certain things

432
00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:56,039
and start making outlandish claims because it seems like it's

433
00:24:56,039 --> 00:25:00,519
plausible and it's not, then that's just what gives everybody

434
00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:01,200
a bad name.

435
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm just saying.

436
00:25:04,759 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: Okay, let's look at some realistic, defendable, defensible examples.

437
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's set up this scenario. Okay, So let

438
00:25:13,319 --> 00:25:15,559
me walk you through a realistic example.

439
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:21,519
Speaker 1: And it kind of thermal certified thermal electrician would evaluate properly. Okay,

440
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,920
So let's do this. So we've got a commercial pain aboard.

441
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,440
We have feeder lugs running hotter than its neighbor. Okay,

442
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,000
so we're doing peer review hotter. We got lug that's

443
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:34,640
hotter than the one that's next to it.

444
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: Okay.

445
00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: So the CTE investigates finds loose terminals. Okay, so finds

446
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,079
a slightly loose terminal. They measure the resistance around point

447
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,400
zero two homes. The load is approximately eighty amps is

448
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,839
what's being loaded on it, and for twelve hours a day,

449
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,640
that termination was loose. Now, let's walk you through the

450
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,359
electrical math. Okay, so we can plug in some numbers.

451
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:02,119
Remember that i squared are ratio. Okay, let's talk about it.

452
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:06,759
It's it's not Internet magic. Okay, it's not Houdini's smoking mirrors.

453
00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:10,440
We know what the loads are, Okay, So it's eighty amps. Okay,

454
00:26:10,559 --> 00:26:14,119
so eighty amps squared. That is I squared amps squared.

455
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,160
So I squared are. So eighty ams squared is six

456
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,480
thy four hundred. Multiply that by point zero two because

457
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,240
that's your resistance. In homes, you're gonna get one hundred

458
00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:28,000
and twenty eight watts so daily, that's about one point

459
00:26:28,039 --> 00:26:32,160
five three six kilowad hours annually. That's about five hundred

460
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:37,400
and sixty kill a widde hours. Okay, so from one

461
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,119
point five to three six killo white hours to over

462
00:26:40,279 --> 00:26:44,160
five hundred and sixty kilo white hours over the year. Now,

463
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,960
if your rate, or your power rate or energy rate

464
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,160
was utility rate, was zero point one four cent per

465
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:53,880
kill a wide hour, then that's going to equate to

466
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,599
about seventy eight dollars and forty eight cent per year.

467
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:57,880
Speaker 2: And look, that's.

468
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Speaker 1: Nothing to sneeze at, especially if you've got a bunch

469
00:26:59,759 --> 00:27:02,039
of those going on. I mean, that's that's just that's

470
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:08,240
pissing away money. Okay, but that is nowhere near the

471
00:27:08,319 --> 00:27:10,960
example that the gentleman used online that was like point

472
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,799
zero one. Here we're talking about point zero two and

473
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,160
we're based on an eighty AM load, and we're talking

474
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:21,759
seventy eight dollars a year. It's still nothing to shake

475
00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:24,720
a stick at. Okay, it's still wasted. Now there's something

476
00:27:24,759 --> 00:27:29,920
bigger though than just that. It's again nowhere near eighteen thousand. Hell,

477
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,519
it ain't even where near eight hundred. Okay, it's basically

478
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,880
seventy eight dollars and forty eight cent.

479
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,279
Speaker 2: But the money's not the problem. It isn't.

480
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: The real problem is what the heat does over time.

481
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:53,200
Because heat rises a little bit, time goes on. As

482
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,119
time goes on, as the heat it continues to build

483
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,160
up that heat, and what happens is you'll get to

484
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,519
the volatile point of maybe not as much the lug,

485
00:28:02,839 --> 00:28:05,799
but the insulated conductors around it, or any of the

486
00:28:06,039 --> 00:28:09,640
material that may be exposed to the heat around it.

487
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,839
Maybe what the lug is mounted against creates other issues

488
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,400
over time, and of course then you have a runaway

489
00:28:17,559 --> 00:28:22,920
or a breakdown. Okay, So the real problem is don't

490
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,839
focus on the money, Okay, focus on the fact that

491
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,279
this could be a future problem that's going to cost

492
00:28:29,319 --> 00:28:31,480
a lot more than seventy eight dollars a year. If

493
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,960
this system were to melt down, then we're talking thousands

494
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,799
of dollars to fix an issue. So that's the kind

495
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:40,519
of diagnostic curculating. You're not saying when it's going to fail.

496
00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:42,759
You're not saying that it's failing next week. You're not

497
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,519
into that. You're not a notredamous. But what you can

498
00:28:46,559 --> 00:28:51,279
tell them is this temperature is rising, and if they

499
00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:55,720
do proper maintenance and they do six month reviews where

500
00:28:55,759 --> 00:28:57,000
they take a picture of it and they take the

501
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,400
different temperatures, or if it's really elevated, you make them

502
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,640
aware of it right now so they can potentially mitigate it.

503
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,519
Then you're saving a potential issue down the road. Now,

504
00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:11,880
when is that going to happen? You? I don't think

505
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,759
you can predict that, but again we do know that

506
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,799
over time, the heat is going to be the problem. Ultimately,

507
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:24,200
things circumb when it's put to a certain level of heat.

508
00:29:24,319 --> 00:29:27,799
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, let's do another one.

509
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:33,559
Speaker 1: So a real danger we're to look at, so let's

510
00:29:33,559 --> 00:29:37,880
talk about it's really the risk, isn't the dollars. The

511
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,359
risk is a heat. That's what you focus on. But

512
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,200
you got to do it within the context of not

513
00:29:43,319 --> 00:29:46,079
blowing smoke. I mean, you need to understand what an

514
00:29:46,119 --> 00:29:49,200
overcurrent device operates at, or what an AFCI or GFCI

515
00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:53,000
operates at or or or you know what the normal

516
00:29:53,079 --> 00:29:55,680
operation temperature is or what's considered acceptable.

517
00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 2: You need to understand that. Before you do, you know,

518
00:29:58,759 --> 00:30:03,839
start calling out cry wolf. Okay, so let me walk

519
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:04,240
you through it.

520
00:30:04,319 --> 00:30:08,599
Speaker 1: So there are different things that can cause heating at

521
00:30:08,599 --> 00:30:12,720
that termination. Okay, you could have progressive oxidation. As the

522
00:30:12,759 --> 00:30:16,319
heat rises and continues to rise, the oxidation will get

523
00:30:16,359 --> 00:30:21,359
heavier and heavier, insulation degradation, especially near the termination. And

524
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,039
today I can tell you as a person that is

525
00:30:24,359 --> 00:30:26,440
very much into the WIR and cable industry. I've served

526
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,079
as an expert to this industry for over a decade.

527
00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:31,839
I'm going to tell you that all the data centers

528
00:30:31,839 --> 00:30:34,279
and everybody wants that insallation brought all the way up

529
00:30:34,319 --> 00:30:36,519
to the lug, all the way up to the terminal,

530
00:30:36,559 --> 00:30:38,920
the connector or whatever's going on. They don't want to

531
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,119
see any of the conductive material. Well, the more you

532
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,319
move that towards the lug. The more that the heat

533
00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:47,960
on a poor termination can transfer down and you'll start

534
00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:51,960
having insulation degradation, whether it's thermal plastic and it starts

535
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,319
regressing and you start seeing little clear bubbles on it

536
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,440
that is the plasticizer migrating out of it, or you

537
00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:02,000
start seeing it browning or turning discolored or really opaque.

538
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,079
When it comes to thermoplastic, I mean, excuse me, thermal set,

539
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,240
which is like a cross link polyethylene.

540
00:31:07,839 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: There's things that can happen.

541
00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:11,519
Speaker 1: It doesn't melt, but it crystallizes on that cross link

542
00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:17,480
polyethylene okay XLPE. So degradation is going to reduce the

543
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:23,039
lifespan of that insulation. Also, the heat, the elevated heat

544
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:24,799
is also going to be transferred in. I mean, these

545
00:31:24,799 --> 00:31:28,359
are overcurrent protective device and so they're going to have

546
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,960
a trip setting. And again when you overload it and

547
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,359
you're putting too much heat on it, you're going to

548
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,599
start getting breaker tripping, equipment failure, internal parts melting down,

549
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:41,319
and devices breaking. How many times have you heard stories

550
00:31:41,319 --> 00:31:43,440
of a breaker looks great from the front, in the back,

551
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,880
it's already melted all down. That didn't just happen overnight.

552
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:51,160
That takes time. And you might say, well, why didn't

553
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,799
the breaker trip right away? Well, because, as I said,

554
00:31:53,839 --> 00:31:57,079
you could have a very low arc, a very low

555
00:31:57,119 --> 00:31:59,680
resistance arc, but over time the heat builds up, but

556
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,799
it's it's not significant enough to clear the overcurrent device.

557
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,759
Speaker 2: Okay.

558
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: Also, as components heat up, the potential for failure creates

559
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,160
the greater potential for an ARC flash potential. And we

560
00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:18,599
know how everybody's freaking about an NFPA seventy E and

561
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:21,640
ARC flash and all this kind of stuff. You just

562
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,559
run the greater risk if your terminations, if your connections,

563
00:32:25,599 --> 00:32:30,079
if your equipment is not in optimum running condition, so

564
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,359
you have to be aware of those things. There's a

565
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:36,039
fire risk associated with the elevated temperatures as well.

566
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 2: Now for most people.

567
00:32:38,799 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 1: Today, like data centers and big commercial the big money

568
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,799
issue for them is really two things. One is the

569
00:32:46,839 --> 00:32:53,279
potential for equipment replacement, but the big one is costly downtime.

570
00:32:54,599 --> 00:32:58,119
This is why preventative maintenance is so key in taking

571
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:01,680
records and documentation, and we plain how you have a

572
00:33:02,039 --> 00:33:06,400
regimental program to go in there and take readings on

573
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:11,640
a monthly basis. If it's very volatile equipment that must

574
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:14,839
stay optimized, you want to make sure you do frequent

575
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,400
thermal inspections and document it, document.

576
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: The value, make sure you do it.

577
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: This is why we use a lot with the TR

578
00:33:23,359 --> 00:33:27,759
three eighty four C. Why we use that thermal limited

579
00:33:27,799 --> 00:33:30,599
camera because it's actually a twenty five hurt so it's

580
00:33:30,599 --> 00:33:36,759
not as spiffy as like a TR twenty pro, which

581
00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:39,559
is like fifty hurts. The lower hurts means it's not

582
00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:42,400
really designed to do, you know, moving things as much.

583
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,559
That's because on that one, that's the one you put

584
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:45,920
on a tripod and you put it on here and

585
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,480
you take some readings as you know, ramp up some

586
00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:54,160
loads and you take really high definition readings. The issue

587
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,480
here is in those data centers they need to stay

588
00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:02,480
up and run, and there are ways to find weaknesses

589
00:34:02,519 --> 00:34:06,079
in the system circuits that were overloaded because they didn't

590
00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:08,239
calculate it out for the various servers that are going

591
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,159
to be on it. And you can't see it.

592
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,119
Speaker 2: Are you what are you gonna do? You're gonna wait

593
00:34:12,119 --> 00:34:13,519
for the thermally break down.

594
00:34:14,039 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: I know this because one of the reasons that I

595
00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:18,880
even ended up at on KOWIRB was because of a

596
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,159
data center that was in a big issue plasticizer melting down.

597
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,039
Speaker 2: It was a big deal.

598
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,079
Speaker 1: And I was asked to step in and solve the issue.

599
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,000
And ultimately it was an engineer's design issue. But we

600
00:34:33,079 --> 00:34:35,639
would not have found that if we didn't do a

601
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:38,920
detailed analysis. Now, I did not do thermal imaging on

602
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,559
that one because I wasn't on the site. I reviewed

603
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:45,480
the drawings and I reviewed data that they supplied. In

604
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:48,480
that alone, I could find where the problem was, and

605
00:34:48,559 --> 00:34:52,000
I re engineered the entire installation and was able to

606
00:34:52,079 --> 00:34:55,440
identify it. Did that make the engineer happy? Absolutely not.

607
00:34:56,679 --> 00:35:02,239
Did the engineer finally admit he was wrong? Absolutely? But

608
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,079
I know that it got us as a wire and

609
00:35:04,119 --> 00:35:06,639
cable manufacturer off the hook because it had nothing to

610
00:35:06,679 --> 00:35:11,840
do with our wire. Okay, so impactful. A seventy eight

611
00:35:12,199 --> 00:35:16,239
dollar energy problem can turn into a seventy eight thousand

612
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:19,400
dollars shutdown or worse if you ignore it.

613
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 2: So that's not a cry wolf.

614
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: That is understanding how a problem can start and how

615
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,159
it could potentially escalate if you don't make people aware

616
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:32,960
of it. I'm not gonna tell you it's gonna fail tomorrow.

617
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,719
But if I'm seeing values based on our training that

618
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,360
are high, I'm telling you it's going to fail. I

619
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:43,480
can't tell you when, but it's gonna fail because the

620
00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:47,119
heat doesn't lie. Okay, you just need to understand how

621
00:35:47,159 --> 00:35:50,880
to understand the heat pattern, how it moves down the conductor,

622
00:35:51,679 --> 00:35:54,440
what's acceptable and what's not. You need to understand how

623
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:56,360
to do the delta t You need to understand how

624
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,599
to do a peer review, quantitative and qualitative review. You

625
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,559
need to understand these things in order to make a

626
00:36:03,639 --> 00:36:05,440
really good.

627
00:36:05,559 --> 00:36:08,639
Speaker 2: Report for your customer. That's your responsibility.

628
00:36:08,679 --> 00:36:11,199
Speaker 1: That's what you're You should have a responsibility to do

629
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:17,760
that properly as a professional. So other examples that electricians

630
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,039
will deal with when there is that heat rise. Let's

631
00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:23,920
ignore the seventy eight bucks because that guy who posted

632
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:25,920
it on social media is full of crap. There's no

633
00:36:26,039 --> 00:36:30,320
eighteen thousand, no point zero one home of resistance point

634
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,960
over a year. You know, nowhere near is that the cost? Now,

635
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,239
could it cost way more than that eighteen thousand dollars

636
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:41,159
if the equipment goes down or something breaks down. Absolutely

637
00:36:41,159 --> 00:36:43,599
it could, But that's not how he conveyed it.

638
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,039
Speaker 2: That's how you should convent.

639
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,679
Speaker 1: So you've got burnt lugs, you've got melted buses, you

640
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:53,079
got failed breakers, You've got motor starters that fry because

641
00:36:53,079 --> 00:36:56,760
of loose terminations and loads. You got variable frequency drives

642
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,679
that burn out prematurely because of loose connections or heat

643
00:36:59,679 --> 00:37:04,280
build up up ups. You've got C and C machine failures.

644
00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:08,400
These are very volatile sensitive equipment that need to make

645
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,559
sure they run at a certain value, and you know,

646
00:37:11,639 --> 00:37:14,000
at a certain voltage as well, so you have voltage

647
00:37:14,039 --> 00:37:17,480
drop issues because of poor terminations. So look, it's not

648
00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:20,440
just a matter of throwing a thermal imaging camera on

649
00:37:20,519 --> 00:37:24,960
a situation. Electrician understands how to not only use the camera,

650
00:37:25,559 --> 00:37:28,800
but how to use a vaultmeter, how to use an amprobe,

651
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,280
how to be able to read that data just as

652
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,840
important as a thermal imaging camera, and a lot of

653
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:42,159
times that's what separates the true electrical thermography expert from

654
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,440
just somebody who has basic thermography training. And it's some

655
00:37:45,519 --> 00:37:50,079
of it out there is really good. Okay, don't don't

656
00:37:50,119 --> 00:37:52,840
get me wrong. I'm not here to bash other training programs.

657
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 2: They're great. They've been probably been doing it longer than

658
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:55,679
I have.

659
00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 1: My point is tailoring it for the electrician is a

660
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,159
lot different than taking a course and then trying to

661
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,159
learn about thermal envelope and then trying to learn about.

662
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 2: Water and HVAC.

663
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,599
Speaker 1: It's a little different, folks, and that's what we only

664
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:15,880
cater to and I don't care about those other things,

665
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,599
to be honest with you, now, our basic thermography course

666
00:38:18,679 --> 00:38:20,880
does get into some of those things, because obviously people

667
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,559
are buying these cameras, the low end, the more affordable ones.

668
00:38:24,599 --> 00:38:26,599
Speaker 2: They're buying them. Well, I think they should know how

669
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:29,440
to use it. I don't want you to waste your money.

670
00:38:29,559 --> 00:38:32,039
Speaker 1: But if you're somebody who wants to be a certified

671
00:38:32,039 --> 00:38:34,199
therminal electrician, you're beyond that.

672
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,159
Speaker 2: You're focusing electrical. That's your focus.

673
00:38:39,159 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: Okay, let's look at some stories, you know, just kind

674
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,239
of real world examples.

675
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: How about this.

676
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,519
Speaker 1: There's been a situation where you've been to it, and

677
00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:52,159
you might have been to I've been to a job

678
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:54,199
where the breaker looks totally.

679
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 2: Fine until it didn't.

680
00:38:57,079 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: How many times you heard people say, well, it's it's fun,

681
00:38:59,519 --> 00:39:01,159
and you know that place has been like that. It's

682
00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:03,320
been like that for forty years until it burns down,

683
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,280
until something happens, and then it just happens. I mean,

684
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,199
people are so complacent today, like, well, I've been doing

685
00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:11,239
this for thirty eight years, and I'm like, yeah, well,

686
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:17,239
until something happens, it happens. A skydiver done twenty thousand

687
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,519
jumps until his parachute doesn't open, Then he's a greasy

688
00:39:20,599 --> 00:39:23,519
spot on the ground. You get what I'm saying. When

689
00:39:23,519 --> 00:39:28,239
it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. So you know, a

690
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:33,480
breaker face looked normal. Thermal imaging showed a forty degree

691
00:39:33,639 --> 00:39:41,519
above ambient behind the handle panel had to be de energized.

692
00:39:41,679 --> 00:39:45,760
Once it was pulled, the lug was almost charcoal.

693
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:47,840
Speaker 2: Would have burnt the.

694
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,920
Speaker 1: Building down probably within months or the only hope is

695
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,719
that it was contained within the enclosure. Thank god, that's

696
00:39:54,760 --> 00:40:01,920
why we have the enclosures, so normal cameras see what

697
00:40:02,039 --> 00:40:06,239
the human eye cannot see. Now, there are literally videos

698
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:09,400
out there now on YouTube. I've seen them where people

699
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,679
have done it offering how to use thermal imaging cameras

700
00:40:12,679 --> 00:40:16,159
for electrical folks. I'm not lying to you. Go and

701
00:40:16,199 --> 00:40:18,840
look on YouTube and things like that. There are people

702
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:20,679
saying that you're doing it. And they don't even pull

703
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:24,079
off the cover. They don't mention, They just hold the

704
00:40:24,119 --> 00:40:26,679
camera there. They don't pay attention to the distance their way,

705
00:40:26,679 --> 00:40:29,880
which is very important. They don't pay attention to the angle,

706
00:40:30,639 --> 00:40:32,119
and they just put it up there and they see

707
00:40:32,159 --> 00:40:34,880
this red and they go ooh, it's hot. That needs

708
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,079
to be fixed. They have no clue that breaker may

709
00:40:38,119 --> 00:40:40,719
be underload right now. There's a reason why it's running hotter.

710
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:42,119
But is it running too hot?

711
00:40:42,159 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 2: Do they know? But what I can tell you is

712
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:47,400
you're going to see something hot.

713
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 1: Your ass better be pulling that cover because the thermal

714
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,239
camera can see what the human eye cannot. Okay, And

715
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,920
in our case, I've seen plenty of breakers where the

716
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,119
front looks perfectly fine, the back is totally melted out

717
00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:02,119
of it.

718
00:41:02,119 --> 00:41:06,320
Speaker 2: It's still running for now. I'm sure you've seen it.

719
00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:09,599
Speaker 1: I am more than sure everybody in their career have

720
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:11,679
had a breaker. The back ass end of it is

721
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,679
totally burnt away, and you're wondering, like, why the hell

722
00:41:14,679 --> 00:41:19,440
didn't it trip because it was a low current draw load.

723
00:41:20,679 --> 00:41:24,280
Over time, the arc built heat. It grew and grew

724
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:27,440
and grew and grew and grew, It still wasn't enough

725
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:29,719
to clear the overcurrent device, but it grew and grew

726
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,079
and grew until it started getting past the volatility point

727
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:36,119
and things started melting down. Eventually, hopefully it would blow.

728
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:43,400
That's the hope I'm just saying. Now, there was a

729
00:41:43,519 --> 00:41:46,599
data center that had a feeder. It had a small

730
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,840
resistant fault. The customer didn't want any downtime. They didn't

731
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:54,199
want to shut it down, so the CTE logged the

732
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,400
data showed changes over weeks.

733
00:41:58,199 --> 00:42:00,119
Speaker 2: And this is where it's really good to you U.

734
00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:05,079
Speaker 1: The TR three eighty four C is to do ongoing

735
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,199
high quality imagery. Of course the TR twenty pro will

736
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,480
do it as well, but this is a prime example

737
00:42:11,519 --> 00:42:14,360
for the for a higher end specialty camera. Okay, so

738
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:17,840
over weeks they kept it and they would take these

739
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,880
readings and they would get heats heat Rise was trending

740
00:42:22,519 --> 00:42:26,159
same loads. It just kept going up and up, and

741
00:42:26,199 --> 00:42:31,000
it's running the same load characteristics. At that point, the

742
00:42:31,039 --> 00:42:35,480
customer authorized a shut down. And when they went and

743
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,079
looked at that location that kept giving in this constant rise,

744
00:42:39,679 --> 00:42:42,000
there was a lug that was nearly melted all.

745
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:42,519
Speaker 2: The way through.

746
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: Now they customer authorized a shut down so they could

747
00:42:47,559 --> 00:42:51,440
take data centers offline and support them other ways. They

748
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,280
didn't just take customers offline, they re routed it so

749
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,039
that they could have this authorized shut down and then

750
00:42:58,039 --> 00:43:01,079
they felt this problem. What do you think would and

751
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:04,199
I'm going to tell you from my experience data centers

752
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,760
when they're down. If you just recently saw this issue

753
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,480
that happened with Amazon and it was all down the

754
00:43:09,639 --> 00:43:14,400
cloud flare or whatever cloudfare due to one person's issue,

755
00:43:14,599 --> 00:43:17,760
even with him as programming, we're talking hundreds of thousands

756
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:23,719
of dollars it cost them. From a mistake, folks, every

757
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,000
single data center in the country should be doing thermal

758
00:43:27,039 --> 00:43:31,960
imaging on every volatile feeder that's going to this equipment,

759
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:34,679
and they should be documented and they should be able

760
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,400
to be able to look at and what you'll see

761
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,039
is a heat characteristic that either stays consistent based on

762
00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:42,719
the loading that is consistent, or it will rise. And

763
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,400
when you start seeing a signature of a rise, that's

764
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:47,639
where the preventative maintenance folks look at it. So again,

765
00:43:47,679 --> 00:43:50,119
if for you data centers out there who are saying, look,

766
00:43:50,119 --> 00:43:53,920
we'll just ride that luck train until something breaks down, Okay,

767
00:43:54,559 --> 00:43:57,159
you keep doing you boot, but eventually you're going to

768
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:03,119
have that problem. Okay, So one understanding electrical knowledge creates

769
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:09,320
predictive maintenance, not preventative maintenance, predictive maintenance.

770
00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 2: Okay.

771
00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: They were able to shut it down without any customers

772
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,000
losing their uptime, fix the issue, and then get it

773
00:44:16,039 --> 00:44:18,400
back online because they had a plan of attack.

774
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 2: Okay, cost them.

775
00:44:21,199 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: A lot less, a lot less than it would have

776
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:25,559
been to have it all of a sudden just shut

777
00:44:25,599 --> 00:44:27,000
down in the middle of the night, and all of

778
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,480
a sudden, all these uh they start getting his calls

779
00:44:29,519 --> 00:44:33,079
because the Walmart's and and and to Google, all these places,

780
00:44:33,119 --> 00:44:35,239
all of a sudden their websites go down. If you

781
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,800
don't think it won't happen, it did happen. In fact,

782
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,079
ours went down. Our websites went down because of that

783
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,119
Cloudfare shut down. Okay, it happens, and you lose revenue,

784
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:51,039
you know, and and and hopefully you don't lose data.

785
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:54,239
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, let's sit here.

786
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:58,199
Speaker 1: No, so a customer where we had a customer that

787
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:02,079
were the contractor who the over sold the savings. Okay,

788
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:05,440
so the thermographer told the customer they were losing ten

789
00:45:05,519 --> 00:45:08,559
thousand dollars a year and that they needed to have

790
00:45:08,599 --> 00:45:11,719
a thermal imaging evaluation done because they're losing it. So

791
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:17,679
the customer actually brought in somebody that was an expert

792
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,800
in thermography and electrical specifically to verify and at the

793
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,360
end of the day, the actual loss was about sixty

794
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:30,239
dollars a year, not ten thousand. Okay, So you trust

795
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,800
the first contractor all of that was now destroyed.

796
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:34,800
Speaker 2: The trust is gone.

797
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,079
Speaker 1: Now you better hope because if it was me and

798
00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:42,000
I paid you ten or you were lying like that,

799
00:45:42,159 --> 00:45:44,880
I may sue you, especially if I'm a big data

800
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:46,800
center and I listened to that and I shut it down,

801
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,119
only to have somebody else say that's not the problem.

802
00:45:49,159 --> 00:45:52,480
It wasn't nowhere near that. Then I'm going to recoup

803
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,239
my investment. I'm suing somebody.

804
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:55,199
Speaker 2: Okay.

805
00:45:55,559 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: So misinformation in this case cost the reputation of the

806
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,719
thermographer because they were trying to sell fear in hype

807
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,280
when again it was nowhere close to saving them ten

808
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,239
thousand dollars a year, not even close. They just made

809
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,280
it up. They just made the number up. Okay, I'm

810
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:21,480
just saying. So why the CTE standard protects the industry.

811
00:46:21,639 --> 00:46:24,320
Why am I pushing so hard for this CTE? Why

812
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,239
did I seek out partnership with Miles C one. They

813
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,039
have over four hundred patents in all different types of

814
00:46:33,079 --> 00:46:37,559
thermography equipment measuring equipment. That's one I wanted a partner

815
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,920
that I knew we would have. They would have our back.

816
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,360
That was the first thing. Now the CTE having a

817
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:52,000
Certified Thermal Electricians credential ensures professionalism. It protects the customer

818
00:46:52,199 --> 00:46:55,960
and ensures that the thermal imaging can be trusted, no

819
00:46:56,159 --> 00:47:01,719
crying wolf. It keeps the untrained people from misrepresenting data,

820
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:07,159
and it strengthens the electricians value when it comes to thermography.

821
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,079
Now you've heard me say it. We have the CMECP

822
00:47:10,199 --> 00:47:13,360
program that from Master Electricians, that's a certified Master Electrical

823
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,519
co Professional. Because it elevates your brand. It lets you know, hey, folks,

824
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:20,840
I'm better than the guy next door. Why Because I

825
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:23,920
didn't just stop at the gatekeeper to get my masters.

826
00:47:24,199 --> 00:47:28,679
I continued my journey in knowledge to become more proficient

827
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,800
in my profession. That's why doctors become specialists rather than

828
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,519
general practition Same here with our CMECP program. Same here

829
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:41,239
for the CTE Certified Thermal Electrician Program. If you want

830
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,880
to offer it, sure you could go out and get

831
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,280
a level one, level two, level three.

832
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:46,280
Speaker 2: What is that going to give you?

833
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: Because do you if you're an electrician, you're not going

834
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,480
to be beating down the home inspectors to try to

835
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,840
do building envelope and water mitigation and I no, you're

836
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:01,760
an electrician. Specialize folks, specialize in what you do. Okay,

837
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,880
it brings more value. Remember the camera itself doesn't make

838
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:12,440
your professional. It's the training that makes your professional. So look,

839
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,239
at the end of the day, if you want to

840
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,639
separate yourself from the pack, if you want to elevate

841
00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:19,360
your career, if you want to provide thermal imaging to

842
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:24,239
the customers and you want to be trusted resource, stop

843
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,519
trying to promote it as a fear tactic.

844
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,559
Speaker 2: That's not what it's all about. A CTE will never

845
00:48:29,679 --> 00:48:37,559
do that. Now, the ct program is where you need.

846
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,119
Speaker 1: To be because thermal imaging is not a guessing game.

847
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: It's not entertainment.

848
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 1: It's not Instagram or TikTok hype's. It is electrical diagnostics

849
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:54,880
powered by science, training and understanding of the National Electric Code. Yes,

850
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:00,519
Sir understanding of a conductor and opacity in loading. The

851
00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:03,159
National Electric Code is a minimum safety standard, but it

852
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,079
is a gold mind of knowledge if you know how

853
00:49:05,119 --> 00:49:09,960
to maneuver that gold mind. Look, if you want more

854
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:14,000
information on becoming a certified thermal electrician, if you need

855
00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:16,840
a thermal imaging camera, come to us. We can make

856
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,519
sure that you get ten percent off the best sale

857
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:24,159
price out there. We can recommend the camera for you

858
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,039
if you really are serious, if you want to go

859
00:49:26,079 --> 00:49:29,199
buy this cheap thing for one hundred bucks, you do you.

860
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:31,760
The one problem with those is you're not going to

861
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,679
get dual imaging. You're not going to get the higher

862
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:37,239
refresh rate. You're not going to get the bigger LCD screen,

863
00:49:38,159 --> 00:49:42,000
you're not going to get the higher refresh rate, you're

864
00:49:42,039 --> 00:49:43,840
not going to get featured laiden.

865
00:49:43,639 --> 00:49:46,440
Speaker 2: Different pallettes, a high level of pallette, and.

866
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 1: You're not going to get the resolution and it's not

867
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:52,239
going to be digitally or faked like digital Zoom resolution.

868
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,960
You need higher resolution, and we offer cameras across that

869
00:49:57,079 --> 00:50:00,360
full spectrum. And again we negotiated ten percent all off,

870
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:05,039
not the MSRP, ten percent off of the best price

871
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:07,960
that they offer, and they offer specials all the time,

872
00:50:08,199 --> 00:50:10,840
you're gonna get an additional ten percent off of that.

873
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,559
That's what we do. That's the negotiation. That's what we

874
00:50:14,599 --> 00:50:18,480
try to do with our partners. Okay, all right, hopefully

875
00:50:18,519 --> 00:50:22,280
you got something out of that. Again, misleading, let's stop.

876
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:24,880
If you want to get into thermal imaging, do it right,

877
00:50:26,519 --> 00:50:29,960
do it right. Don't sell snake oil. Don't try to mislead.

878
00:50:30,039 --> 00:50:33,159
Don't try to earn somebody's business by them saying, oh,

879
00:50:33,199 --> 00:50:34,960
we're going to save you ten thousand a year or

880
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:39,639
ooh that problem costs you ten. No, so far off

881
00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:43,280
the extreme scale that if somebody's buying because they thinking

882
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,719
they're going to get a return on investment, then you

883
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,880
have high expectations to live up to.

884
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:49,280
Speaker 2: That's not what I'm here.

885
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:52,320
Speaker 1: What I'm here to do is to see whether or

886
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:57,039
not we can offset potential failures down the road by

887
00:50:57,079 --> 00:51:02,880
doing some predictive maintenance and understand the temperature curves of

888
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,400
what we have now versus an ongoing analysis. If you're

889
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,239
in if you're in the maintenance field, if you're an electrician,

890
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:13,320
it's going in for service costs. You're looking for things

891
00:51:13,559 --> 00:51:16,199
right now that have a problem. If you're in commercial

892
00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:18,440
work or motors, you're trying to make sure that you're

893
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,400
going to keep these motors running at optimal performance, that

894
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,760
you don't have any predictive problems that you could prevent

895
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,960
by getting ahead of the curve. It's all about the uptime, folks,

896
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:31,400
It's not about the money you save at the end.

897
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,280
Don't sell your customer that they're going to make money

898
00:51:35,280 --> 00:51:39,079
on it, right. Don't say, look, this will cost you

899
00:51:39,199 --> 00:51:41,199
fifteen hundred bucks, but it's going to save you ten

900
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:41,880
thousand dollars.

901
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:44,599
Speaker 2: That is not the right approach, folks, not what we're

902
00:51:44,639 --> 00:51:45,039
here to do.

903
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:50,079
Speaker 1: No, we're worried about the bigger picture, the equipment failure,

904
00:51:50,199 --> 00:51:54,920
the downtime, the replacement costs, the potential fire, the potential hazards.

905
00:51:55,519 --> 00:51:59,280
That's why we're using thermal imaging. We're trying to get

906
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:03,000
ahead of that curve. And it's not just as easy

907
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:04,920
as looking at a bunch of colors on a screen.

908
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:10,639
You have to understand how to do it properly, and

909
00:52:10,679 --> 00:52:14,239
you need great examples, and in our course we give

910
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:16,960
you examples that you can use. And all you got

911
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:19,880
to do is plug in your real world examples into

912
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:21,800
the same examples we give you in the course. We

913
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,159
keep it simple and light. It's not like you're reading

914
00:52:24,159 --> 00:52:28,639
an encyclopedia. We also have what's called fast Tracks Interact

915
00:52:28,679 --> 00:52:32,079
built into it, so for the lifetime of the program

916
00:52:32,199 --> 00:52:35,679
or you're in it, you get to ask us questions

917
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:39,039
and share images with us. Right in the fast Tracks Interact.

918
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:41,920
You can even share one of your thermal images and say, hey, guys,

919
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:42,840
can you take a look at this?

920
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 2: You see you think this is a problem, and we

921
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:46,760
will give you advice on that.

922
00:52:48,239 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 1: We'll ask you a bunch of questions because we are

923
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:52,559
hoping that you know how to do all that, and

924
00:52:52,599 --> 00:52:55,480
we show you what you need to find out before

925
00:52:55,519 --> 00:52:58,199
you do any of that, because you need all the information.

926
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,400
But God's sakes, don't make it a money thing. Don't say, oh, well,

927
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,800
this resistance is costing you this over a year. No,

928
00:53:06,639 --> 00:53:10,880
it's a different. Focus on the safety, focus on the hazard,

929
00:53:11,079 --> 00:53:15,400
focus on the downtime, focus on the replacement costs if

930
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:20,119
it does happen. That's where you need to be. Don't

931
00:53:20,119 --> 00:53:21,920
try to sell them on something thinking you're gonna save

932
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,360
them a bunch of money that you know, because that's

933
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:25,800
just that's snake oil.

934
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,159
Speaker 2: And that gives everybody a bad name in the industry.

935
00:53:28,599 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, folks, hopefull you got something out of that.

936
00:53:31,039 --> 00:53:33,599
Until next time, stay safe, God bless and we'll catch

937
00:53:33,639 --> 00:53:37,039
you on another episode of Master the NEEC piece.

938
00:53:38,119 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 3: Thanks for tuning into another electrifying episode of the Master

939
00:53:41,559 --> 00:53:45,679
the ANT podcast. We hope you're feeling more powered up

940
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,280
and ready to tackle the electrical world with the knowledge

941
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:53,119
and confidence you need to succeed. Remember, in the electrical grade,

942
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,079
knowledge is power, and we're here to make sure you

943
00:53:56,119 --> 00:53:59,599
stay flooded into the latest inside chips and code up.

944
00:53:59,679 --> 00:53:59,840
Speaker 2: Dave.

945
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 3: If you enjoy today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave

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us a review, and share the podcast with.

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Speaker 2: Your fellow electricians and industry pros.

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Speaker 3: Until next time, keep your tools sharp, your circuits clear,

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and you're my focused because here at the Master of

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the NEC podcast, we're all about sparking your success. Stay safe,

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stay smart, and keep mastering the trade. From all of

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us here at Electrical Code Academy. Thank you for all

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your support and we will see you on the next

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amazing Master of the NEC podcast episode.