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Speaker 1: There's been yet another deadly shooting by a left wing terrorist,

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and I bet you can't guess how the media are responding. Plus,

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we discussed the political and spiritual implications of the huge

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Charlie Kirk memorial with special guest Megan Basham all of

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that and more on the Kylie Cast. Hi everybody, and

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welcome to the Kylie Cast. I am Kylie Griswold, Managing

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editor at The Federalist. Please like and subscribe wherever you

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get your podcasts, and if you're just listening to the show,

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definitely go check out the full video version of the

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show on my personal YouTube channel or the Federalist channel

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on Rumble, and then like and subscribe there as well.

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If you'd like to email the show, you can do

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so at radio at the Federalist dot com. I always

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love to hear from you.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: One of the biggest pieces of news from this past

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week was the massive memorial service for Charlie Kirk on Sunday.

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Truly one of the biggest events I've ever seen, not

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only in person, but in the sheer volume of people

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who watched it around the country and around the world.

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And of course it's Thursday, so a lot of people

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in the intervening days have already recapped the major highlights.

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I'm sure you've already seen them, but there are a

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couple of points, both political and spiritual, that I think

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are really important to address. On the political front, I

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saw a very interesting and insightful tweet this week or

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ex post from Aaron O'Kelly who said, quote today was

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the first time I have seen Trump eclipsed by the

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movement that surrounds him. He wasn't the focus, nor did

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he give the most memorable speech among those given. MAGA

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is much bigger than Trump, and it will endure after him.

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That is undeniably true. Trump was one of many speakers

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at the event, both people who are staffers for Charlie

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Kirk or TPUSA Cabinet secretaries Erica Kirk, JD. Van's political pundits.

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There were many, many speakers as the President, Donald Trump

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was the last one to speak at the memorial that

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was some five hours long or more, and his speech

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was very trumpy. There were definitely some good highlights, but

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it was not even close to the most memorable or

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most powerful speech that was given. And you know, I

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look at the state of the modern democrat Party, and

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I look at the different factions that are warring for

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control and for power. And of course there are some

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names that have risen to the top as potential contenders

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for the next presidential candidate, for instance, But all of

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these candidates are subpar and or they have major issues

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that make them, I would argue, unelectable. You have somebody

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like Josh Shapiro that I don't think would ever get

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the nomination because there is such a large faction of

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the Democrat Party that is wildly anti Semitic. Their Prohamas

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faction is a real problem for them. Then you have

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Kamala Harris, who just became the de facto figurehead, but

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she's a disaster and her book tour this week is

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just reminding us of that over and over again. And

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then you have people like Gavin Newsom, who were, like

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lab created to be a pop politician. He is the

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governor of the worst state in the Union and has

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run it into the ground. That is just not the

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case of the Republican Party. And I'm old enough to

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remember when the best we could produce was Mitt Romney.

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Now you look at that stage, and you look at

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the heavy hitters and the young up and comers. You

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look at how strong the positions are and the communication

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of people like Stephen Miller and jd Vance and Tulca Gabbard,

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even people like Erica Kirk, and you look at the

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many millennials and members of gen Z that are in

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that room that are ready to take up the torch

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and that actually have a cause and a purpose that

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is driving them beyond just hating Donald Trump. There is

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so much to be hopeful for for the future of

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the party, and this past weekend just really inspired confidence

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in that and so I am very excited. And of

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course there are plenty of things that could derail it,

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but this weekend just put into stark focus the fact

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that the Republican Party and the coalition that Charlie Kirk

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helps build is so much bigger than Donald Trump. And

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while he was such a great pick for this moment,

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he won't be around forever. He's only got a couple

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more years in office, but the movement will long outlive him,

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and that was abundantly clear. You know, I can only

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imagine what this moment would have looked like under a

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Kamala Harris presidency. Do you remember when she was promoting

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abortion at a campaign stop in the twenty twenty four election,

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and some pro lifers in the crowd started shouting Jesus's Lord,

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and this was her response, Oh, you.

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Speaker 3: Guys are at the wrong rally. No, I think you

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meant to go to the smaller one down the street.

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Speaker 1: I mean this with all sincerity. Thank god we are

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not walking through this assassination moment with Kamala Harris at

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the helm. And I think what we saw on Sunday

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was a huge indictment of the never Trump spokesman such

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as David French and Russell Moore, who warned that Donald

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Trump would be such a moral stain on the party

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that either we would be less politically effective or less Christian. Well,

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look at the event. They could not have been more

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wrong on both counts. I mean, just look at Erica

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Kirk's speech. She didn't just talk about the utmost importance

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of upright men and women embracing their unique God given

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roles and prioritizing marriage and families, but she also shows

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what it looks like to love and forgive our enemies.

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So that's both a political win and a spiritual win.

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And I don't think anybody out there can argue that

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Erica Kirk is not effective. But beyond that, the gospel

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was also shared so many times at the memorial, And

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here are just a few.

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Speaker 4: Jesus left the glory of Heaven's thrown for the humiliation

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of an earthly cross. He was fully tempted, yet was

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without sin. For those of you who struggle with the

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word sin, it's real simple. It's an archer's term. Where

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the bulls eye is and where the arrow lands that's

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called the sin distance. How far are you fallen from perfection?

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And there are none righteous, no, not one. We've all

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missed the mark the bulls eye. And we try to

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get to God by our efforts, but there is no

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effort that will bring us back into the presence of

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a righteous God. You see, the wages of sin is death.

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Charlie knew this, and at an early age he entrusted

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his life to the savior of the world. Jesus came

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to this earth, was tempted in all ways, yet was

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without sin, was crucified upon a cross. His blood was

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poured out because blood must be shed for the remission

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of sins, and his death upon that cross sufficient for

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all the world's sins. But only efficient for those who,

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like Charlie, would receive him as their savior. Jesus has

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come to seek and save that which is lost. And

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I would say this to all of you. The Lord

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loves you. He wants to save you. He wants to

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give you a new life. He wants to cover the

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multitude of your sins by the blood he shed upon

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the cross. The Bible says, if you believe in your

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heart and you confess with your tongue Jesus's Lord, you

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will be saved to the glory of the Father.

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Speaker 5: Now, I want you to know that Charlie right now

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is in heaven. Not because he was a great husband

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and father, Not because he saved millions of kids out

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of darkness on college campuses, not because he changed minds

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and chased votes to save the country, not because he

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sacrificed himself for his savior. Charlie Kirk is in heaven

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because his Savior sacrificed himself for Charlie Kirk. Now, look,

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there's only two things you can get in the afterlife.

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You can get justice or you can get grace. Ladies

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and gentlemen, does anyone in here, does anybody out there

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watching around the world want justice from an infinitely just being.

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I don't want justice, I want grace. Well, the only

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way to get grace for an infinitely just being is

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for him to punish an innocent substitute in our place.

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Where can he find in his substitute among us? He can't.

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Speaker 6: We're all fallen.

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Speaker 5: So what does this infinitely justin infinitely loving God do.

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He adds humanity to his deity. He comes to earth,

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He allows the creatures that rebelled against him to torture

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and kill him so he could place their punishment upon himself.

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And then by trusting in him, every one of us

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can be forgiven and then given his righteousness. Ladies and gentlemen,

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this is the greatest story ever told, and it happens

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to be true. There's evidence for this, and Charlie knew it.

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Speaker 7: That we were all created, every single one of us,

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before the beginning of time, by the hands of the

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God of the universe and all powerful God, who loved

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us and created us for the purpose of living with

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him in eternity. But then sin entered the world and

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separated us.

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Speaker 6: From our creator.

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Speaker 7: And so God took on the form of a man

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and came down and lived among us, and he suffered

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like men, and.

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Speaker 3: He died like a man.

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Speaker 7: But on the third day he rose unlike any mortal man.

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And then, and to prove any doubters wrong, he ate

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with his disciples so they could see, and they touched

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his wounds. He didn't rise as a ghost or as

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a spirit, but his flesh.

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Speaker 8: And then he rose to the heaven.

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Speaker 7: But he promised he would return, and he will.

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Speaker 1: From Rob McCoy to Frank Turk to even Marco Rubio

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and more. Now multiply that by the more than one

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hundred million people who streamed the memorial and the almost

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one hundred thousand more that were in the stadium. Millions

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and millions and millions of people heard the Gospel not once,

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not twice, but so many times. If they missed it

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the first time or the second time, they might have

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heard it the third, or the fifth or the eighth time.

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It was shared over and over and over. And in

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light of all that, the never Trump arguments about Donald

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Trump's character are all just blather. At the end of

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the day, we now have an environment where Christianity can

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be pro claimed to the masses and be respected even

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by people who don't yet believe, and that is huge,

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and that's certainly not something we would have had under

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a Kamala Harris presidency. And it reminds me of the

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Apostle Paul's a letter to the Philippian Church, where he says, quote,

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it is true that some preach Christ out of envy

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and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do

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so out of love, knowing that I am put here

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for the defense of the Gospel. The former preach Christ

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out of selfish ambition, not sincerely supposing that they can

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stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.

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But what does it matter? The important thing is that

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in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ

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is preached. And because of this I rejoice, yes, and

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I will continue to rejoice. So Yes, there were many

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at Charlie's memorial and watching from afar who don't believe,

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including many of the speakers on stage. But there are

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also many who do believe, And there are also many

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who are brand new to the faith. And to you,

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I want to offer both an encouragement and a caution,

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if I may first a note of encouragement. If you

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have come to Christ because of Charlie Kirk's martyrdom. You

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have made the best decision you could ever make. And

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that's not to say the Christian life is easy, ask

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Erica Kirk. But as she encouraged you on Sunday, this

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isn't just something you choose once and then put on

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the back burner. Christianity is a daily taking up your

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cross and following Jesus. So read your Bible, pray, repent

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of your sins, go to church, and then do it

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all again and again and again. And if you're a believer,

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the Holy Spirit is now in dwelling you and will

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empower you. So make sure you listen to him, keep

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reading scripture, keep going, keep growing, be encouraged. And if

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you don't yet have a Christian community, find a gospel

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preaching church and get plugged in. But also I want

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to offer a quick word of caution to what I

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would call cultural Christians, the people who like the idea

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of Christianity and its morals, and those who really liked

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Charlie Kirk and his beliefs and his politics, and people

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who feel like a part of Christianity because you share

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the same conservative politics as the Christian sitting next to you.

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But can I offer a caution that we make sure

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that we let our faith in Jesus inform our politics

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and not the other way around. I think there will

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be a temptation here, and I know the devil will

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be working overtime, but a temptation to see the type

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of evil that drives a young man to assassinate a

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thirty one year old father, and to cast that evil

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as something that's foreign to you, that evil exists out

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there but not in here, or to hear the Gospel

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and to view it as something the Democrat Party really

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needs to hear, or to think that you are on

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the side of Jesus just because you're on the same

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political team as Charlie Kirk. Scripture tells us that even

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our righteous deeds are nothing but filthy rags in light

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of God's perfect holiness. Evil is not just a thing

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that needs solving in our country. Evil is something that

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needs solving in each and every one of our own hearts.

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Another word for evil is sin. And there's only one solution,

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and it's not the GOP and it's not an impressive

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memorial service. It is the good news that even though

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your sin does separate you from God, and there is

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no way, no way, no political activism, you can do,

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no good deeds, you can do, no moral thing, you

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can do, no being on the right team or with

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the right people that you can do to work your

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way back to God. But it's the good news that

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He sent Jesus to us instead to pay the penalty

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of death that we deserve. We all deserve it, whether

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you're an assassin or you're just a gossip, and then

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to rise from the dead three days later, defeating sin

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and eternal death for all who turn from their sin

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and believe on his name. So, if you're just a

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cultural Christian, if you're just watching from the sidelines and

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admiring Charlie Kirk's faith from afar, or thinking you're a

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part of it because you're a Republican, don't delay becoming

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a real Christian. The Savior that radically transformed Charlie Kirk's

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life is ready and willing to transform yours too if

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you call upon him so do it today. There is

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plenty more to discuss as it relates to the Charlie

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Kirk Memorial. So joining me now to talk about it

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is Meghan Basham. Meghan welcome, Thanks so much, for joining

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me today.

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Speaker 6: Thanks for having me, Kylie. It's great to be here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Meghan is a culture reporter at The Daily Wire and

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also an author. She wrote the book Shepherd's For Sale,

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and if you haven't read it yet, you should. And

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if you don't follow her on Twitter, what are you doing?

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You should follow her on Twitter as well. I follow

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her there every day and she's been very helpful for

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me and a very clarifying voice in a very fraught culture. So, Meghan,

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I would love to know, first of all, just your

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impression of the memorial service overall. What did you think

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of it? And were you there in person or watching

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from afar.

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Speaker 6: I wasn't so I have surgery tomorrow and nothing major.

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It was just kind of the last piece of some

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cancer treatment that you know, cancer is gone, but we

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knew I would have this kind of final surgery, which

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is a good surgery. They're kind of reversing some things

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that they had to do while I was going through treatment.

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So excited about that. But for that reason, I didn't

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go because I just felt like it was going to

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be too much. But I'm also kind of glad I

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didn't because I was able to sit home and watch

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like live reactions on social media as I was watching it,

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and what struck me was, first of all, I've never

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seen anything like that, not just in terms of the

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outpouring of love affection condolences for Charlie and Erica and

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their family, but I have never seen our federal officials,

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a president's cabinet give glory to Jesus Christ specifically like that.

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I mean, we've all kind of in the past, had

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even our most Christian identified president, somebody like George W.

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Bush make sort of vague allusions to God, and they

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may talk about being a Christian, but I have never seen,

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you know, the Secretary of State laying out a full

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gospel presentation.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean that.

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Speaker 6: Just floored me. Or you know, to have our Secretary

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of War, Pete Hegseth saying, you know, the blood of

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Jesus to wipe away our sins, and so it just

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felt like almost like a revival. I know a lot

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of people are talking about that, and that seemed to

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be the impact that it was having on people at home,

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because as I was sitting there, riveted watching the entire thing,

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I'm at the same time scrolling and you're seeing people,

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you know, people that I know personally that are atheists

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going you know, I started going to church because I'm

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just so struck by this moment and what Charlie stood for.

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Or you know, I saw a Muslim woman say I'm

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really interested in what these Christians have because they seem

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very different. So, you know, I mean, it's been said

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by a lot of people now, but it really did

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kind of feel like an old time tent revival.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. One thing that really struck me was and I mean, okay,

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I know that the Holy Spirit does not need our

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persuasive abilities in order to draw people to the Lord.

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Like clearly God is the one who does all of

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the work, and like we can be the we can

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share the gospel in the most clumsy way, and He

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can still use that to bring to bring people to himself.

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But I was so encouraged, and it was just the

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coolest thing to watch the same gospel presented in different

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ways by multiple people, like everybody from Frank Turk to

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Rob McCoy to, like you said, Marco Rubio. It was

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like they're all sharing the exact same gospel, but you

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never know how it's going to resonate with different people

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depending on how it's presented, and so that was just

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such a unique moment, I thought, just multiple people saying

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the same thing in different ways.

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Speaker 6: It was and you know, I wrote about it a

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little bit and what I said was, I don't you know,

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I'm not under the illusion that every single person who

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was on that stage is a Christian. I know some aren't,

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but I have never seen an administration so willing to

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say that, you know, not only do we tolerate or

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welcome Christians into the administration and to serve, but we're

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we're even if I'm not personally a Christian, We're giving

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a full throated, wholehearted endorsement to Christianity on this stage.

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And yeah, so that was really interesting. And you know,

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for me seeing even someone like Telsea Gabbard, who I

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believe is a Hindu, still recognizing and honoring the faith

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of Charlie Kirk and the God that Charlie Kirk worships,

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I mean, that was meaningful to me. And I felt

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like this is sort of a restoration and a reclaiming

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of America as a Christian nation.

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Speaker 1: Frankly, yes, absolutely, just the respect for it on the

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stage and the Tulsie Gabbard one in particular, as I

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was listening to her speech, there were some several things

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she said that, you know, kind of kind of make

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me pause and cringe a little bit because they're like

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not quite right. But she's also out there sharing scripture,

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and it's like scripture doesn't return void, whether it's a

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Christian saying it or not, Like that's still the truth

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being proclaimed, whether whether she's a Christian or not. So right,

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I saw plenty of criticism, of course, of the Memorial

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as well, both on one side of the spectrum from

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people who you know, sort of smeared it or dismissed

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it as Christian nationalist. But then on the other side

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there were plenty of people who criticized it as like syncretic,

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and so I would love to get your thoughts on

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what I thought was an excellent essay by Pastor rich

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Lusk another excellent Twitter follow. If you don't follow him,

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definitely do. But he wrote about some of the strongest

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gospel moments of the Memorial and also observed what you

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were just talking about about the respect for Christianity in

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that room, even among attendees who weren't actually Christians. But

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this is what he wrote in his piece, and I

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want to get your thoughts on this, he said, quote

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Reformed Christians might be tempted to look down on the

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style of worship and music in the service and the

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imprecise theology on display. We shouldn't resist that temptation. What

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good is mature theology if you don't enter the fray

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and get into the battle. Evangelicals charging the gates of

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Hell with slingshots and baby guns are more effective than

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Reformed Christians who leave their jet fighters in the hangar

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and their battleships in the dock. And immature theology combined

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with courage and a willingness to act, will always be

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more effective than mature theology and worship that never enter

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the fray. Reform Christians love to be the Monday Morning

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quarterback who criticized the normy evangelicals in the arena, but

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those who are in the arena are the ones through

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whom God is working to bring change end quote Wow,

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and what an image of storming the gates of Hell

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with the baby gun. But I would love to get

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your thoughts on that and whether you agree disagree what

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you think.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I actually retweeted that particular part of it because

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I did agree, And you know, I come out of

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a reform tradition. I for those who follow me, well know,

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I'm a big John MacArthur fan. I'm a Calvinist, and

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so if I air, I probably do tend to air

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towards that judgmental you know, doctrinal sifting going. They didn't

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quite have their doctrine right here, or this was airror.

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So I get that impulse, and yet at the same time,

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I go, we cannot constrain the Holy Spirit and what

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was clearly happening there. And my friend Natasha Crane, who

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if you don't know her, she's an other author, and

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you know she has a great podcast with Alisa Childers

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and does a lot of work in apologetics, and she

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talked about what she took away from Charlie's example and

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what I think you could take away from this memorial.

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Was always wanting to write and not speak, because she

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wants to have her doctrinal points down pat and not

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have anybody criticize and say you mess this up or

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you didn't get this right. And I'm paraphrasing. It's been

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a couple days since I read it, so if I'm

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paraphrasing wrong, forgive me, Natasha, But what it felt like

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she was saying to me was, there's a point of

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pride there that you want to have it perfect instead

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of just saying, you know, just speak now. We don't

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want to be reckless. But if we're always trying to

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get it just perfect, is it about us or is

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it about sharing the truth with a lost war? Right?

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And so, you know, that was part of what I saw.

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And there were things, you know, there were people on

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the stage. Again, I know some of the worship leaders

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whose doctrine I would not agree with, and yet in

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that moment, I realize that they're they're bringing an American

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audience to Christ, they're presenting the gospel, they're doing those things,

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and so, you know, I don't know all their hearts,

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but even if their doctrine is wrong, I kind of went,

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this is a good moment. And even if you know,

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Christ is preached by those who don't believe everything just

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the way they should, He's still being preached. And I

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think that was a really good thing. So, and that's

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not to minimize the importance of doctrine. I do think

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it's important. I think these you know, distinctions are important.

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And yet I feel like this is a moment for

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not quenching the Holy Spirit, so to speak. I mean,

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it just felt like to me there was such a

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recognition that we as a nation need not just God,

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but Jesus Christ. And so you know, I wouldn't want

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to step on that message with nitpicking at this point, right.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that post that you're referencing by Natasha was

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excellent and what an effective lie from the enemy that

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pride that we we cannot be effective if we can't

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say things perfectly. And I mean, that was just an

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excellent post. I resonated a lot with it, and just

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to bring it full circle, I mean, I think if

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I'm recalling correctly, and I also read it a few

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days ago. She was specifically referencing how she would nitpick,

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especially the early days of Charlie Kirk, of like, ooh,

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I wouldn't I wouldn't quite say that that way, or

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maybe that's too abrasive or whatever, and just the fact

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that it's like, look in that room, look around the globe.

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You know, hundreds of millions of people witnessing the gospel

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because of a guy who was willing to just get

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up and say the thing, even if it was a

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little bit clumsy, or even if it wasn't perfectly finessed.

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And I mean, you could argue that by the time,

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by the time he died, like he really had finessed

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his message. And you know, but that's that's a really

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important point, just to be willing to stand up and

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say what needs to be said, even if it's not

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you know, the perfect messenger. So you also tweeted quote,

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this memorial is the nail in the coffin of third Wayism.

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Praise God, no more lukewarm inoffensive Christian end quote. For

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listeners who are maybe not as familiar with the terminology

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here or with Tim Keller's approach to civic life and politics,

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can you explain what you mean by that?

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Speaker 6: Yes, So for those who aren't familiar with third Wayism.

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And I actually just wrote a piece that was published

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yesterday for Daily Wire where I kind of got into this.

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So if you go back to twenty sixteen, Russell Moore,

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who is now the editor in chief of Christianity Today,

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but was then the head of the Ethics and Religious

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Liberty Commission, which is the policy arm of the Southern

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Baptist Convention, largest Protestant denomination. He wrote this thing in

478
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,799
The Washington Post in twenty sixteen where he basically said

479
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,599
Trump is the end of the religious right, meaning that

480
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,519
Christians who supported him because of his policies are now

481
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:55,000
so discredited that the next generation of Christians are either

482
00:25:55,039 --> 00:25:57,319
not going to be political or the next generation of

483
00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:00,359
Conservatives aren't going to be Christians. So he's basically saying

484
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:06,279
the James Dobson, Jerry Folwell moral majority model that we

485
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,240
saw back in the eighties and nineties, that's over now

486
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:12,519
because of Trump. And that was something that he was

487
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,279
very much aligned with Tim Keller on. Tim Keller was

488
00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:18,720
also he said, I've never said I'm never Trump, and

489
00:26:18,839 --> 00:26:22,400
you know, we lost tim Keller it was two years

490
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,839
ago now, but he was clearly very opposed to Trump.

491
00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:27,759
Any time he spoke about him or wrote about him,

492
00:26:27,839 --> 00:26:30,039
it was always with a tone of I am concerned

493
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,839
about what trump Ism is doing to Christianity in the

494
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,640
United States and doing to our evangelical witness in the US.

495
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:45,000
And so tim Keller published this blueprint for how Christians

496
00:26:45,759 --> 00:26:48,680
could bring about revival in the United States, and in

497
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,200
this blueprint he basically said that political moderates were going

498
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,680
to need to separate from Trump supporters, and what he

499
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:01,880
laid out was that Christian is neither right nor left

500
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,960
and that Christians should not follow a donkey or an elephant,

501
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,680
they follow Christ. And to a certain extent that's true.

502
00:27:09,319 --> 00:27:12,599
But for Keller, what that meant was, we don't pick

503
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,400
a side. Then politically we are this third thing that is,

504
00:27:16,559 --> 00:27:19,839
you know, somewhere in the middle or somewhere outside of politics,

505
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,400
which sounds good, but boots on the ground, it doesn't work.

506
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,960
You have to pick aside. And then the other thing

507
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,920
that it did was Keller's third wayism that would say

508
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,319
we're neither right nor left. It elevated what I would

509
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,240
call biblically debatable issues, things like what should our border

510
00:27:36,279 --> 00:27:40,319
policies be, How do we approach a subject like climate change.

511
00:27:40,319 --> 00:27:44,480
Do we believe that, you know, human activity is creating

512
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:49,079
catastrophic meteorological changes or is it, you know, just something

513
00:27:49,079 --> 00:27:50,880
that happens naturally and we're not having that big of

514
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,519
an impact. So those are things that I would say

515
00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:56,680
there was not a clear biblical imperative, But for someone

516
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,960
like Keller, they would say these social justice you know,

517
00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:02,319
that was an issue that you spoke out about a

518
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,519
lot immigration, that those have the same weight as something

519
00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:09,319
to me that has much more moral clarity, like abortion

520
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,920
or should we you know, perform transgender procedures and treatments

521
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,279
on children. So he would say, we're going to do

522
00:28:17,319 --> 00:28:19,440
this third way thing, and by doing this and by

523
00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,279
not identifying with right or left, that is going to

524
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,599
show that we as Christians embrace this third thing. We

525
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,720
don't belong to either party. So obviously when we're talking

526
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,319
about Charlie Kirk, he did something very different.

527
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, And it's so funny now looking back

528
00:28:36,519 --> 00:28:41,079
on that, just the fallacy of because okay, so third

529
00:28:41,079 --> 00:28:44,720
way ism, I mean that really paved the way for

530
00:28:45,119 --> 00:28:47,920
the after party, and that the never trump ism of

531
00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:49,960
the David Frenches and the Russell Morrison you know, on

532
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,079
and on that list is it's not actually long, but

533
00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:55,400
there's quite a litany of them.

534
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:57,079
Speaker 6: And boy are they active. You just see them all

535
00:28:57,119 --> 00:28:58,759
the time. So it feels like there's a.

536
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,079
Speaker 1: Lot, right, I think my algorithm punishes me. But but

537
00:29:03,319 --> 00:29:06,279
they they do pick a side. They purport to be

538
00:29:06,599 --> 00:29:10,920
this objective you know, third third way, but in actuality

539
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,720
it's you know, it's always nuance, left punch right. They've

540
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,640
clearly chosen a side. It's not a third way.

541
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:19,319
Speaker 6: So that's the I think what they were really trying.

542
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,720
I mean, and when you kind of push away all

543
00:29:21,759 --> 00:29:25,880
the rhetoric and the jargon of third way and both sides,

544
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,559
what you really get to is they were trying to

545
00:29:28,599 --> 00:29:32,400
make room for Christians to vote for Democrats. That's the

546
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,440
bottom line. As they were trying to say, well, yes,

547
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,559
abortion is wrong and we shouldn't kill babies, but if

548
00:29:39,599 --> 00:29:42,680
you also feel like we need to grant amnesty to

549
00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:45,319
these people who've been in the United States, that's also

550
00:29:45,359 --> 00:29:47,119
an important issue, so maybe you want to vote for

551
00:29:47,119 --> 00:29:49,920
a Democrat, Whereas I would go, these two things are

552
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,000
not moral equivalents, right, One is murder and one is

553
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:54,079
a debatable issue.

554
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And they did this a lot by conflating

555
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,519
a person's personality i e. Trump with the Democrat policies

556
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,000
or vice versa, where you know, you would look at, yeah,

557
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:09,519
well Trump is more pro life or less less pro abortion,

558
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,640
but he's he's irredeemably a bad guy. You know, he

559
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,519
personally has all of these problems. Whereas Joe Biden, Sure

560
00:30:17,559 --> 00:30:20,240
he you know, supports abortion, but look at his moral character,

561
00:30:20,279 --> 00:30:23,000
which I also think was was false, but just didn't

562
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:23,480
work either.

563
00:30:23,519 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 6: I'm like, yeah, look at his moral character, right.

564
00:30:26,119 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: He's a jerk. Yeah, But we were never comparing you know,

565
00:30:29,319 --> 00:30:32,000
policies with policies and character with character. It was always

566
00:30:32,119 --> 00:30:38,200
tarnishing Trump supporters by their character while ignoring the policy implications,

567
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,319
which were huge they really really can't be ignored.

568
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,759
Speaker 6: So well, I was sorry. I didn't mean to Stephanie,

569
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:46,079
but I was just gonna say when I when I

570
00:30:46,119 --> 00:30:48,079
look at it as I mean, they would have argued

571
00:30:48,119 --> 00:30:51,039
too that we did this for evangelistic reasons. We didn't

572
00:30:51,079 --> 00:30:54,119
want to put up stumbling blocks to people coming to

573
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,599
Christ by suggesting that, you know, we believe that homosexuality

574
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:00,920
is a sin, and if we're going to be really

575
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,559
bold about that at the outset, then that will, you know,

576
00:31:03,599 --> 00:31:08,039
prevent some people in where Keller was ministering in New

577
00:31:08,119 --> 00:31:12,079
York City from coming to Christ. Well, you know, I

578
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,839
when I sit back now and look at someone like

579
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,240
Charlie Kirk, I actually think that what we're seeing is

580
00:31:17,319 --> 00:31:20,279
that the Keller more model was wrong, and the Charlie

581
00:31:20,319 --> 00:31:24,599
Kirk model, which is being unashamed and being bold and saying, actually,

582
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,400
we believe these things are sin. We believe this is murder,

583
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,799
we believe this is immoral. That those actually had more

584
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,319
tendency to draw people in a world that's starving for truth.

585
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,880
But I think that's what they would have said. I mean,

586
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:40,039
you know, if we look at that Kirsten Power's essay

587
00:31:40,079 --> 00:31:42,319
that she wrote, she went to Tim Keller's church for

588
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,519
quite a number of years. I understand she was a

589
00:31:45,519 --> 00:31:51,759
Democrat CNN contributor, and when he died, she wrote a

590
00:31:51,799 --> 00:31:55,000
sort of a eulogy memorial for him, and in it

591
00:31:55,079 --> 00:31:59,039
she noted that she didn't know for a long time

592
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:01,200
when she was going to their to Tim Keller's church,

593
00:32:01,359 --> 00:32:04,079
that the church believed that abortion was murder or that

594
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,559
homosexuality was a sin. Because those things weren't talked about

595
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:08,880
from the pulpit. She kind of had to find it

596
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,000
out on the sly, in the small groups and just

597
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:13,960
sort of, she said, through osmosis, she kind of figured out, oh,

598
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,160
I think this is what they believe, but she didn't

599
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:18,000
know it from the preaching from the pulpit.

600
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 1: Right right. And I think there are certain political issues

601
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,519
where if you don't know your church, your church's stance

602
00:32:24,559 --> 00:32:27,119
on it, you know, fine, like if the truth if

603
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:29,400
your pastor is not getting up on Sunday and talking

604
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,680
about tax policy, that's probably a good thing.

605
00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:32,200
Speaker 6: Uh.

606
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:37,039
Speaker 1: But abortion and and uh the sexes are not political issues.

607
00:32:37,079 --> 00:32:39,160
These are inherently biblical issues. And so if you don't

608
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,160
know what scripture has to say about them, or they're

609
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:43,839
not coming up, you know, even in the course of

610
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,759
a year or two years from the pulpit and like

611
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,559
as your expositing scripture, that's that's a problem because they're

612
00:32:49,559 --> 00:32:54,079
not just political issues, they're they're fundamentally biblical issues. So, uh,

613
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,039
that kind of gets to my next question, which is

614
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,119
to what degree and maybe you don't think at all,

615
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,640
but to what degree you think that Charlie's life and

616
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,119
then also the response to his death indicts the modern

617
00:33:06,119 --> 00:33:08,519
American Church? So, in other words, do you think there's

618
00:33:08,599 --> 00:33:11,799
a cause and effect relationship between this third wayism and

619
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:15,200
the winsomeness gospel much of the church taking kind of

620
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,799
a passive role in the formation of young men specifically,

621
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,359
and Charlie's style of engaging them directly with not only

622
00:33:21,359 --> 00:33:24,200
the Gospel but like practical biblical truths.

623
00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 6: Yes, I mean, so your question is how much impact

624
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,000
do I think Charlie's model had and do I think

625
00:33:30,039 --> 00:33:34,359
the winsomeness approach that we saw for the last couple

626
00:33:34,359 --> 00:33:37,680
of decades that that failed young men? Is that the question?

627
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, like, is Charlie's ministry and the effectiveness of

628
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,960
his ministry to what degree do you think that's an

629
00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:47,519
indictment on the church and how it's failed to sort

630
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:49,599
of address these issues? Sorry, I asked it.

631
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 6: That's good, and I think it's a pretty big indictment.

632
00:33:53,599 --> 00:33:58,039
You know, I look at how many young men are

633
00:33:58,079 --> 00:33:59,839
coming back to church, and you know, we're seeing some

634
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,559
statistics and I don't have them in front of me,

635
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,079
but I know, you know, we've just seen some studies

636
00:34:04,119 --> 00:34:07,440
showing that, and the New York Times actually reported on

637
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,960
this that right now young men identify as more religious,

638
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,079
more Christian than young women since we've been looking at

639
00:34:15,079 --> 00:34:17,760
that issue. So like, for the first time in recorded history,

640
00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:20,920
the young men are saying that they are more likely

641
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,800
to go to church, but they are more likely to

642
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,480
read their Bible, that they are more Christian. And I

643
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:30,599
cannot help but pinpoint that specifically on Charlie's work with

644
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:33,880
TPUSA Faith and TPUSA on the college campuses, because I

645
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,079
feel like nobody else was speaking to these young men.

646
00:34:36,119 --> 00:34:40,079
They were not the desirable demographic we're talking about, you know,

647
00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:44,920
particularly young white guys in maybe suburban or rural areas

648
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:51,239
who were just not seen as the type of harvest

649
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,920
let's say that we were looking to reap. So instead

650
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,960
what you saw from all of these ministries, and it

651
00:34:57,039 --> 00:35:01,719
was hugely influential. I mean Tim Keller's model of urban evangelism,

652
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,159
and it had some merits for its time and place,

653
00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:07,800
but it took over everywhere, so that you had all

654
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,559
of these churches thinking, well, we have to reach a

655
00:35:10,639 --> 00:35:16,480
certain type of you know, urban ethnically diverse and typically

656
00:35:16,599 --> 00:35:20,400
left leaning kind of potential congregant. Those are the people

657
00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:23,159
we're trying to reach. And a friend of mine puts

658
00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:26,519
this in a I think a really sharp and helpful way.

659
00:35:26,559 --> 00:35:29,480
If you know Joe Rigney. He talks about the progressive

660
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,760
gaze that all of these ministries and pastors had, and

661
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,639
by that he means gaze. So they have this idea

662
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,320
that when they imagine who they're trying to reach, their

663
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,719
default is I'm trying to reach a young, urban progressive

664
00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:46,199
and that's why they would be so soft on talking

665
00:35:46,199 --> 00:35:49,639
about these particular issues that might be offensive to that person.

666
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:51,480
Whereas then you have with Charlie Kirk, who did not

667
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:53,320
care about that. I mean, he went out and talked

668
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,599
to everybody, but you particularly saw young men responding. And

669
00:35:57,679 --> 00:36:00,559
so you know, when I see these statistics showing that

670
00:36:00,559 --> 00:36:02,159
these young men are coming back to the church, that

671
00:36:02,159 --> 00:36:05,079
they're reading their Bible, that they're becoming more conservative. At

672
00:36:05,079 --> 00:36:06,679
the same time, by the way, we've seen a huge

673
00:36:06,679 --> 00:36:09,719
shift in young men becoming more conservative. I'm not saying

674
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:12,679
it's just Charlie Kirk that did that, but I think

675
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,039
Charlie Kirk's ministry, and I use that word very deliberately

676
00:36:16,039 --> 00:36:20,440
because it was a ministry helped create the cultural atmosphere

677
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,440
and landscape that allowed that to happen.

678
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:26,159
Speaker 1: Yes, well, because Charlie was offering something that most of

679
00:36:26,159 --> 00:36:32,480
the other influential speakers who were appealing to young men,

680
00:36:32,599 --> 00:36:35,079
he offered them something that they didn't. You know, there

681
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:37,840
are a lot of good things that young men can

682
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,840
glean from the Joe Rogan experience, and can glean from

683
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,639
listening to Jordan Peterson or you know, even other parts

684
00:36:43,639 --> 00:36:45,679
of the manosphere. You know, take it or leave it.

685
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,519
There's like parts they're good and parts that are bad,

686
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,480
but all of them fall short by They can offer purpose,

687
00:36:51,519 --> 00:36:55,079
and they can offer you know, temporal purpose and good

688
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,480
rules for life for you know, getting your life kind

689
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,599
of on track, but they don't offer eternal hope. And

690
00:37:00,679 --> 00:37:03,079
Charlie Kirk did and so that obviously set him apart.

691
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,159
And yeah, it absolutely was a ministry.

692
00:37:06,519 --> 00:37:10,039
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's great, and Charlie Kirk to me, look, I

693
00:37:10,039 --> 00:37:14,400
love Jordan Peterson, but it is there's a disconnect when

694
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:18,519
you go I find utilitarian value in Christianity, but I'm

695
00:37:18,519 --> 00:37:22,280
not a Christian that is not going to move and

696
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,719
transform people. Those of us who are Christians understand, Yes,

697
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:30,719
that's true. Living by Christian principles is good, but it's

698
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,360
not the same as understanding I am a sinner and

699
00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:38,480
my fallen nature will always desire that which is harmful

700
00:37:38,559 --> 00:37:42,719
and destructive, and so I need transformation internally from the

701
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,840
inside out by something outside of myself, by a power

702
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,280
outside of myself. I cannot change these things on my own.

703
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:50,480
And that is the difference between you know, some of

704
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,000
these influencers on young men who may have done some

705
00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:57,320
very valuable work, but they're not giving them the ultimate

706
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,840
value of you are not just you know, sort of

707
00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:02,760
chiseling off the rough edges. You were becoming a new creation.

708
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:08,519
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly exactly, So just pivoting a tiny bit.

709
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:12,760
The day after Charlie Kirk died, our friends over at

710
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,559
Christianity Today, where Russell Moore is the editor in chief,

711
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,760
ran with this headline, I'm going to put it on

712
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:26,599
the screen quote died Charlie Kirk, activist who championed maga doctrine. Obviously,

713
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:28,840
they got a lot of pushback for this headline, and

714
00:38:29,159 --> 00:38:31,239
this article was written by the same guy who wrote

715
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,599
a whole article calling into question the biblical accuracy of

716
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:36,719
Jesus being nailed to the cross and then later had

717
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:41,639
to apologize. But then this week Christianity Today seemed to

718
00:38:41,679 --> 00:38:47,400
pivot pretty hard to this framing. These headlines read Charlie

719
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,320
Kirk's five hour memorial combined gospel and politics. It mentions

720
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:56,360
that Erica Kirk forgave her husband's killer the worship, YadA, YadA.

721
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,280
And then the other headline, why Charlie Kirk landed with

722
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:05,119
young men like me, which is another pretty glowing looking article. Here,

723
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,280
I saw you tweeting about this, and I'm wondering if

724
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,239
you think that this is something we can or should

725
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,880
celebrate without real repentance from the leadership of Christianity today.

726
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, I am. I'm really conflicted about this, and I

727
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,199
was kind of, you know, just riffing. I was literally

728
00:39:24,199 --> 00:39:26,360
dictating into my phone as I put up that. I

729
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,320
didn't remember now what it said. It was several paragraphs

730
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,960
a long, but I was just dictating into my phone,

731
00:39:30,159 --> 00:39:32,599
riffing on my thoughts about what do I do with

732
00:39:32,679 --> 00:39:35,559
this reaction in Christianity today, because you know, in that

733
00:39:35,639 --> 00:39:38,960
initial headline, as you can see, they make no mention

734
00:39:39,079 --> 00:39:44,280
of his faith, no mention of the the gospel preaching

735
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:49,119
that he did, of the evangelistic wing of his organization,

736
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,639
they didn't mention that at all. And a lot of

737
00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:56,159
people rightfully contrasted that with them trying to grab anything

738
00:39:56,199 --> 00:39:58,960
they could with George Floyd to go, Look, he was

739
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,519
this laudable human being, so they said, George Floyd left

740
00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:06,039
a gospel legacy, which, look, I'm glad that George Floyd

741
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,800
had moments in his life, parts of his life where

742
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,639
he seemed to understand that he needed the Gospel, but

743
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:17,639
he also died with a huge amount of narcotics in

744
00:40:17,679 --> 00:40:21,039
his system, resisting arrest. So a lot of people, you know,

745
00:40:21,199 --> 00:40:25,760
rightly contrasted Christianity's treatment Charlie Kirk to George Floyd. That

746
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,599
was part of the outrage. And then I look at

747
00:40:28,639 --> 00:40:31,920
what they're doing now, and there's a cynical journalist part

748
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,280
of my brain that goes, this feels like pr cleanup,

749
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:41,599
like we went too far, we have damaged are already

750
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,159
very tarnished brand. And you know, something to know about

751
00:40:45,159 --> 00:40:50,320
the guy who wrote that headline is as as he's

752
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:55,559
been covering politics and interviewing politicians for Christianity, he was

753
00:40:55,559 --> 00:41:00,199
also making donations to Democratic candidates, including Elizabeth Warrens. You know,

754
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,599
the person who wrote that headline is a Democrat himself,

755
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,800
So you know, that's an interesting thing to know that

756
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:08,599
they that maybe they went, oh, he went too far.

757
00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:10,800
He's an anti Kirk person, and now we have to,

758
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,719
you know, clean up the spell on Aisle five. So

759
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,480
on the one hand, I'm of that mind, But on

760
00:41:16,519 --> 00:41:19,840
the other hand, I also kind of take it as

761
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,840
a win because I don't know in recent years that

762
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,679
I've really seen Christianity to day recognize in a way

763
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,000
that I could pinpoint it and go, Okay, they realized

764
00:41:30,039 --> 00:41:33,519
they went too far, Like even for their sort of squishy,

765
00:41:33,559 --> 00:41:38,039
moderate middle audience, they've gone too far. So that's possible,

766
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:40,239
I mean, and I can't help but see it that way.

767
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,320
But there's also a part of me that's like, maybe

768
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,920
maybe they went and watched a bunch of Charlie Kirk

769
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,039
engaging with these kids on college campuses. Maybe they thought

770
00:41:51,039 --> 00:41:53,760
they understood who he was by reputation and by the

771
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,760
false narratives that they had heard, and when they actually

772
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:58,840
you know, maybe somebody went, I'm going to go right

773
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,320
up something about his and then they actually saw what

774
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:01,679
it was.

775
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:03,239
Speaker 1: Sure, and when.

776
00:42:03,079 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 6: You see what it is, you cannot deny the strong

777
00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:09,239
Christian faith and not just Christian faith. But I'm actually

778
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,079
going to use the word the winsomeness of Charlie Kirk

779
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,559
when he would be on these college campuses. He didn't

780
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:17,360
pull punches about the truth, but he was very kind,

781
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,760
he was very engaging, he was loving when he was

782
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:24,239
dealing with some of these gender confused kids on college campuses.

783
00:42:24,639 --> 00:42:27,320
And so, you know, you have a hope that maybe

784
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,480
they saw that and recognized we screwed up. This guy

785
00:42:30,559 --> 00:42:31,719
was not who we thought he was.

786
00:42:32,039 --> 00:42:34,599
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, maybe that's why Russell Moore's publication let him

787
00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:37,519
in the door, because they finally realized he actually was winsome.

788
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 2: Yeah.

789
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,719
Speaker 1: I much more fall into the first of you, I think.

790
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:44,239
But I also think but yeah, I do think it's

791
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:49,119
important to give people the opportunity to change course. Also,

792
00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:51,400
but I do think in some ways that requires some

793
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,360
degree of admitting wrongdoing and repenting. But yeah, that's a

794
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:55,880
great point.

795
00:42:56,079 --> 00:43:00,639
Speaker 6: Look, just a totally you know, crass political love. I'll

796
00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:02,639
also take it as a win because I think the

797
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,920
vibe shift is very real, and you do have some publications.

798
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:09,599
Gospel Coalition is another that I don't think would have

799
00:43:09,639 --> 00:43:12,440
touched Charlie Kirk with a ten foot poll when he

800
00:43:12,559 --> 00:43:15,639
was alive suddenly lauding him. And I take that as

801
00:43:15,639 --> 00:43:18,679
a win too, because you go, well, there has been

802
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,199
a shift in the Overton window, and you now have

803
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,400
some of these publications that I think are realizing we

804
00:43:24,519 --> 00:43:28,840
are now outside of the window for mainstream Christianity to

805
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:30,280
the left, and we're going to have to move if

806
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,159
we're going to get back into the mainstream of it.

807
00:43:32,559 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, great point. Yeah, I don't subscribe to Christianity today,

808
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:37,639
but they keep sending me issues in the mail, I

809
00:43:37,639 --> 00:43:39,199
think to try to get me to subscribe us. So

810
00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,440
maybe this is just one more effort and to try

811
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:41,960
to get.

812
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 6: Like a young gen z probably either.

813
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: Very right at the end of millennial.

814
00:43:47,519 --> 00:43:50,559
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you're actually their target audience. They're like, look,

815
00:43:50,599 --> 00:43:54,639
she's a young woman, young professional, successful woman. You're supposed

816
00:43:54,679 --> 00:43:55,760
to be their target audience.

817
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, they think that I am the progressive gaze. They're

818
00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:01,000
including me in that because they think I'm part of that.

819
00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:04,760
Yet well, before I let you go, Megan, just to

820
00:44:05,159 --> 00:44:07,599
flip to a more personal note. First of all, I

821
00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:12,440
just want to recycle this wonderful, wonderfully awful tweet that

822
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:15,440
we got from Ray Ortland and David French. This is

823
00:44:15,519 --> 00:44:19,280
just a great time to remind people because I'm so

824
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:21,440
curious what this moment would have looked like, and I'm

825
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,239
so glad we don't have to know what this moment

826
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,480
would look like under a Harris presidency, because, honestly, praise

827
00:44:27,519 --> 00:44:30,039
God just for the amount of glory the Lord is getting,

828
00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:32,639
even from our non Christian president Donald Trump, with the

829
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,840
respect for Christianity. But because of that, I know in

830
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,320
my personal life I have seen not just on Twitter,

831
00:44:40,519 --> 00:44:42,360
you know, because of course I've seen lots of tiktoks

832
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,159
and tweets of plenty of people saying I've never opened

833
00:44:45,159 --> 00:44:46,880
the Bible before, but I'm doing it for the first time,

834
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,960
or I don't even know how to pray, but I'm praying,

835
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:50,320
or I'm going to church this Sunday and I have

836
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,000
never stepped foot in a church or whatever. But even

837
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,280
in my own personal life, I know people who are

838
00:44:56,559 --> 00:44:58,639
coming to church now or you know, this isn't just

839
00:44:59,119 --> 00:45:02,239
this isn't just anecdotes from Twitter. This is real life.

840
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,159
And so I'm wondering, before you go, if you have

841
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:09,480
any beautiful gospel anecdotes from the past couple of weeks

842
00:45:09,519 --> 00:45:10,960
that you can share with our listeners.

843
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:16,119
Speaker 6: Yeah, I do. You know, I'll just say that my

844
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,039
husband's trainer, for instance, he's got a young twenty seth

845
00:45:19,119 --> 00:45:22,280
inter trainer when this happened, called and said, hey, can

846
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:24,679
we come to church with you all? And my husband

847
00:45:24,679 --> 00:45:26,880
had been talking to him about church before that, but

848
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,679
it was this moment I think that made him go, hey,

849
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,320
I'd kind of like to check check out your church

850
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,079
and take him up on the offer. So, you know,

851
00:45:34,119 --> 00:45:37,000
we experience that personally too, that suddenly people in our

852
00:45:37,039 --> 00:45:40,519
own lives were like, my brother's gonna shoot me. But

853
00:45:40,599 --> 00:45:42,559
my brother is one of them, was not typically a

854
00:45:42,639 --> 00:45:44,920
church goer. Love him. I tease him a lot because

855
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,280
I'm his church lady's sister that he needs to get

856
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,960
in church. And he was there that weekend too, So

857
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:52,880
you know, that was a huge win for me that

858
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,519
I went, yes, what'd you think and he's like, oh,

859
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:59,639
he's good. So, you know, experiencing it too in our

860
00:45:59,679 --> 00:46:02,400
own lives vibes that I just went all over, there

861
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,280
is a christ curiosity and we need to capitalize on that.

862
00:46:06,599 --> 00:46:11,599
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. There's a specific some specific people in

863
00:46:11,639 --> 00:46:14,360
my life that I have been not only evangelizing but

864
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,880
praying for for quite a while now, and they came

865
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,760
to church for the past two weeks and I'm just

866
00:46:22,159 --> 00:46:26,000
so there's such a bittersweetness and just like such a

867
00:46:26,119 --> 00:46:28,480
Charlie Kirk legacy to that that it's like, that's exactly

868
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:30,159
what he would want to see. But I you know,

869
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,400
the first couple of times that you're sharing the gospel,

870
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,599
you don't imagine that these will be the types of

871
00:46:34,599 --> 00:46:36,960
catalyzing moments or the types of things that will water

872
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,599
those seeds, but praise God for any souls in any

873
00:46:39,639 --> 00:46:42,239
way that they come to the Father. Like it's just

874
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,440
it's it's awesome to see it happening. So I love

875
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,519
these personal stories. Get it offline and into the real world.

876
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 6: So yeah, a man, absolutely agree.

877
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:52,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, Megan, thank you so much for joining me today.

878
00:46:52,039 --> 00:46:54,239
It was great to have you on the podcast. If

879
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,559
you don't follow Megan Basham on Twitter, like I said,

880
00:46:56,679 --> 00:46:59,599
definitely do that and I really hope to have you

881
00:46:59,679 --> 00:47:01,079
back soon. Thanks so much.

882
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:02,599
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me, It's been great.

883
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,559
Speaker 1: The left wing terrorism continued this week yesterday with an

884
00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:15,519
attack on an ice facility in Texas, And of course,

885
00:47:15,559 --> 00:47:18,559
this was only two weeks after the brutal and public

886
00:47:18,599 --> 00:47:22,880
assassination of conservative activists and Christian Charlie Kirk, which was

887
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:27,639
only two weeks before the brutal attack on Annunciation Catholic

888
00:47:27,679 --> 00:47:31,119
School in Minnesota that left two children dead and another

889
00:47:31,199 --> 00:47:34,679
more than twenty injured at the hands of a deranged

890
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:39,760
transgender identifying individual who specifically targeted Christians. And of course,

891
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,920
all of this is despite the media's full court press

892
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:46,639
to convince Americans that political violence is actually a right

893
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,760
wing problem. Of course, these studies peddled by the media

894
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:52,840
from the likes of CATO and the Anti Defamation League

895
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,559
have all been widely debunked this week because political terrorism

896
00:47:56,639 --> 00:48:01,039
political violence is in fact, almost exclusively alone left wing problem,

897
00:48:01,199 --> 00:48:02,920
and you can only deduce that it's a right wing

898
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,280
problem when you count non politically motivated attacks and exclude

899
00:48:08,559 --> 00:48:11,199
very politically motivated attacks from the left, such as the

900
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:16,159
multiple Trump assassination attempts or the Daryl Brooks vehicular terrorism

901
00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:18,760
in Waukeshaw a couple of years ago. So these studies

902
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,960
have been widely widely debunked. And then Wednesday morning we

903
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,800
were reminded again of the left's political violence problem when

904
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,880
a gunman opened fire on an ice facility from a

905
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:33,400
nearby rooftop. Reports indicate that one person was fatally shot

906
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,719
and another two were wounded. All were detainees at the

907
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,000
ice facility, and then the shooter also took his own life.

908
00:48:40,039 --> 00:48:43,960
We learn almost immediately that unspent shell casings at the

909
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:48,440
scene were inscribed with anti ICE messaging. Not surprising. Then

910
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:51,679
we also learned this morning from FBI Director Cash Bettel

911
00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:54,920
that there was a lot of pre attack planning that

912
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:59,519
took place, including ballistic searches and researching of DHS facilities

913
00:48:59,559 --> 00:49:02,920
and app that track ICE officers, and even the watching

914
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,519
of the video of the Charlie Kirk assassination, and according

915
00:49:06,519 --> 00:49:10,320
to Patel, a handwritten note was recovered either on the

916
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:14,679
shooter's person or at his home that read quote, hopefully

917
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,760
this will give ICE agents real terror to think. Is

918
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,599
there a sniper with AP rounds on that roof? With

919
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:25,760
AP in that context referring to armor piercing rounds just

920
00:49:26,079 --> 00:49:32,000
abject evil and undeniable left wing terrorism. And yet here's

921
00:49:32,039 --> 00:49:35,559
what we got from the media, Even after news from

922
00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:39,159
the FBI director himself that the bullets in Wednesday's shooting

923
00:49:39,159 --> 00:49:43,559
were inscribed with anti ICE messaging, the New York Times wrote, quote,

924
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:48,000
the actual motivation behind the messages written on the bullets

925
00:49:48,039 --> 00:49:52,920
in both mister Kirk's assassination and Wednesday's killing are still

926
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,519
not known, And this was accompanied by a picture of

927
00:49:57,559 --> 00:50:01,840
the bullets with the anti ICE inscription. Insane. Axios went

928
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:08,800
with quote ICE shooting sparks partisan blame game before facts confirmed. Yes, Axios,

929
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,119
Republicans pounds that's the real problem here. Here's Bill Crystal

930
00:50:12,199 --> 00:50:16,079
saying that actually it's Trump's fault and broadcast networks were

931
00:50:16,079 --> 00:50:20,000
somehow even worse. We shouldn't be surprised. Here's MSNBC.

932
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:25,000
Speaker 8: Terrorism falls into real really three categories. It's either religiously motivated,

933
00:50:25,320 --> 00:50:28,920
ideologically motivated, or in this case, politically motivated. And the

934
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,119
politically motivated ones. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. It

935
00:50:32,159 --> 00:50:35,639
happens because conditions have been set that people start acting

936
00:50:35,679 --> 00:50:38,800
out against. What are the conditions, So you know, distrusted

937
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,159
institutions that's been building for quite some time, a tax

938
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:47,719
on institutions, the wealth gap, oppressive policies at least this

939
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,440
is what people perceive. And then the militarization of ice

940
00:50:52,519 --> 00:50:55,440
and other federal law for the wearing of the mask,

941
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,559
aggressive tactics. So the people who are soaring to act

942
00:51:00,559 --> 00:51:06,400
out against this feel it's their only recourse. Again, this

943
00:51:06,519 --> 00:51:09,800
is predictable. We see this happening throughout our history and

944
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:12,719
in other places as well. So you know, we can

945
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,840
tone down the rhetoric and that that's the right message,

946
00:51:16,599 --> 00:51:20,159
but you also have to start looking at what policies

947
00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:24,039
you've implemented, what tactics you're using, Because if you've torned

948
00:51:24,079 --> 00:51:26,639
down the rhetoric, but you leave those other pieces in place,

949
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:27,880
nothing's going to.

950
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,079
Speaker 1: Try so I wonder, of course, this is the same

951
00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:32,719
guy who not only said on Wednesday that the shooter

952
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,800
probably wasn't left wing because inscribed bullets is actually a

953
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:41,480
right wing thing. Seriously, but he's also a former counter

954
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:45,079
terrorism agent for the FBI, so this kind of rhetoric

955
00:51:45,079 --> 00:51:49,440
from him is particularly insane. At best, MSNBC analysts are

956
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,960
negotiating with terrorists on live television, and at worst, the

957
00:51:53,039 --> 00:51:57,320
whole Democrat Party has transformed into an abusive husband. Well,

958
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,960
if you didn't lawfully exercise power in ways I didn't like,

959
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:05,239
I wouldn't have to kill you something something stochastic terrorism.

960
00:52:05,519 --> 00:52:09,199
This MSNBC analyst is actually right that political violence doesn't

961
00:52:09,199 --> 00:52:11,800
happen in a vacuum. But here's the environment it happens in.

962
00:52:12,119 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 2: Ice is looking more and more like an American gestopo.

963
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:20,679
Speaker 4: They're huddled around the elevator banks in masks without identifying information.

964
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,679
What a terrifying like these are Gestapo tactics, but.

965
00:52:24,639 --> 00:52:26,639
Speaker 2: It has created this year as they've seen the kind

966
00:52:26,679 --> 00:52:31,320
of fascist Ice Gestapo militias go around Latino American citizens

967
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:34,960
in places like La Ice. Agents masked Ice Gestapo agents

968
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:38,679
getting more funding than any other law enforcement agency in

969
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,079
the history of the United States.

970
00:52:40,159 --> 00:52:43,159
Speaker 9: Ice running GESTOPO like around our country.

971
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 2: The Gestapo had the same function. It was there to

972
00:52:46,599 --> 00:52:50,360
draw distinction between us and them. It was not federally,

973
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,840
it was controlled from the by the leader. And we're

974
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:58,320
seeing a disturbing similarities between this force and the Gestapo.

975
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 9: We've got these masked thu cowards kidnapping innocent people and

976
00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,800
sending them off to be slaves or tortured in other countries.

977
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:08,079
Speaker 5: Dressing like thugs and acting like thugs.

978
00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:12,079
Speaker 1: Democrat politicians and activists and media incite violence again and

979
00:53:12,119 --> 00:53:16,159
again and again. Now we're seeing explicit calls on Georgetown

980
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:19,280
University's campus and on the streets of Virginia, and I'm

981
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:21,880
sure many many other places across the country that just

982
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,800
haven't made their way to social media yet that the

983
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:28,800
time for nonviolent action is over. And then we get

984
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:32,880
pathetic calls from lawmakers that we need to bring down

985
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:36,159
the temperature and stop the violence on both sides and

986
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:40,440
be unified against political violence, and requests for Democrats to

987
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:44,719
police themselves. And these calls are just so incredibly tone

988
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:49,000
deaf and embarrassing here is Ted Cruz standing athwart history, shouting,

989
00:53:49,199 --> 00:53:52,239
please stop shooting us, Please stop calling us Nazis.

990
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:56,320
Speaker 9: This is the third shooting in Texas directed at ICE

991
00:53:57,079 --> 00:54:05,639
or CBP. This must stop. To every politician who is

992
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:11,400
using rhetoric demonizing ICE and demonizing CBB stop.

993
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:17,079
Speaker 1: This is not going to stop unless the Trump administration

994
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,840
and our lawmakers use the full force of the federal

995
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:24,360
government to make these terrorists and those who incite them

996
00:54:24,519 --> 00:54:29,599
pay dearly. Republicans and or Conservatives control all three branches

997
00:54:29,639 --> 00:54:33,199
of government, and Americans and law enforcement officers are being

998
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:36,360
gunned down in public for the simple fact of being

999
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:40,599
Christians or part of the Republican administration, often by people

1000
00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:44,920
affiliated with Antifa or other terrorist networks, or pumped full

1001
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,400
of synthetic wrong sex hormones at the direction of the

1002
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:52,639
Democrat Party. Enough is enough, Trump and the rest of

1003
00:54:52,679 --> 00:54:56,719
the party should be using every single tool at our disposal.

1004
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,760
The people who run the group that put up the

1005
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,079
Georgetown poster for instan should be having the FBI knocking

1006
00:55:02,119 --> 00:55:05,559
down their doors. Already, strip any university that allows this

1007
00:55:05,679 --> 00:55:10,039
type of behavior of any government funding or any special status,

1008
00:55:10,079 --> 00:55:13,480
and criminalize the trans medical racket and start throwing so

1009
00:55:13,599 --> 00:55:17,880
called health care providers in prison who pump these troubled

1010
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,039
kids full of testosterone and exacerbate their mental illness. And

1011
00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:25,320
don't even start with retorts that this could set a

1012
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,840
dangerous precedent and that Democrats could just turn this around

1013
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,360
on Republicans when they get back in power. Just stop,

1014
00:55:32,599 --> 00:55:35,840
where have you been? You mean like spying on Christians

1015
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,679
or investigating parents who don't want their kindergarteners exposed to

1016
00:55:39,800 --> 00:55:44,320
gay porn as domestic terrorists or domestic extremists, or raiding

1017
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,159
the home of their chief political opponent and seeking to

1018
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:50,880
bankrupt and imprison him and the people who support him,

1019
00:55:51,039 --> 00:55:54,679
or debanking people for the crime of being conservative, or

1020
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:59,880
disbarring lawyers who have conservative defendants. Democrats weaponized the full

1021
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:04,760
power of the federal government against Conservatives for years, and

1022
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:10,039
they did it using ridiculous pretexts and bogus charges. Republicans

1023
00:56:10,159 --> 00:56:15,280
using the federal government's legitimate power to punish legitimate crimes

1024
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:20,239
up to and including terrorism and murderous conspiracy is not

1025
00:56:20,519 --> 00:56:24,440
an abuse of power. It's the only acceptable use of it,

1026
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:27,800
and it is not unprincipled to say so. The time

1027
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:31,159
has come. Enough is enough. We cannot continue to see

1028
00:56:31,199 --> 00:56:34,039
headlines like this, and see videos like this, and learn

1029
00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:37,440
information like this about more attacks and more terrorism every

1030
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,559
two weeks or even more frequently than that. The American

1031
00:56:40,599 --> 00:56:44,599
people are done and conservatives are in power right now,

1032
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:46,880
so they need to do something about it. That doesn't

1033
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:50,159
include going out and saying to the press Democrats need

1034
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,280
to stop. No, we need to make them stop, all

1035
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:56,880
right and not incredibly upbeat and happy. Note that is

1036
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,679
all for me today now that I am all fired up,

1037
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:02,039
Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode

1038
00:57:02,079 --> 00:57:04,280
of the Kylie Cast. We will be right back here

1039
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,559
next week with more. Don't miss it until then, be

1040
00:57:07,679 --> 00:57:09,719
lovers of freedom and anxious for the Fray, and I

1041
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:10,599
will see you next week