Speaker 1: There's been yet another deadly shooting by a left wing terrorist,
and I bet you can't guess how the media are responding. Plus,
we discussed the political and spiritual implications of the huge
Charlie Kirk memorial with special guest Megan Basham all of
that and more on the Kylie Cast. Hi everybody, and
welcome to the Kylie Cast. I am Kylie Griswold, Managing
editor at The Federalist. Please like and subscribe wherever you
get your podcasts, and if you're just listening to the show,
definitely go check out the full video version of the
show on my personal YouTube channel or the Federalist channel
on Rumble, and then like and subscribe there as well.
If you'd like to email the show, you can do
so at radio at the Federalist dot com. I always
love to hear from you.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: One of the biggest pieces of news from this past
week was the massive memorial service for Charlie Kirk on Sunday.
Truly one of the biggest events I've ever seen, not
only in person, but in the sheer volume of people
who watched it around the country and around the world.
And of course it's Thursday, so a lot of people
in the intervening days have already recapped the major highlights.
I'm sure you've already seen them, but there are a
couple of points, both political and spiritual, that I think
are really important to address. On the political front, I
saw a very interesting and insightful tweet this week or
ex post from Aaron O'Kelly who said, quote today was
the first time I have seen Trump eclipsed by the
movement that surrounds him. He wasn't the focus, nor did
he give the most memorable speech among those given. MAGA
is much bigger than Trump, and it will endure after him.
That is undeniably true. Trump was one of many speakers
at the event, both people who are staffers for Charlie
Kirk or TPUSA Cabinet secretaries Erica Kirk, JD. Van's political pundits.
There were many, many speakers as the President, Donald Trump
was the last one to speak at the memorial that
was some five hours long or more, and his speech
was very trumpy. There were definitely some good highlights, but
it was not even close to the most memorable or
most powerful speech that was given. And you know, I
look at the state of the modern democrat Party, and
I look at the different factions that are warring for
control and for power. And of course there are some
names that have risen to the top as potential contenders
for the next presidential candidate, for instance, But all of
these candidates are subpar and or they have major issues
that make them, I would argue, unelectable. You have somebody
like Josh Shapiro that I don't think would ever get
the nomination because there is such a large faction of
the Democrat Party that is wildly anti Semitic. Their Prohamas
faction is a real problem for them. Then you have
Kamala Harris, who just became the de facto figurehead, but
she's a disaster and her book tour this week is
just reminding us of that over and over again. And
then you have people like Gavin Newsom, who were, like
lab created to be a pop politician. He is the
governor of the worst state in the Union and has
run it into the ground. That is just not the
case of the Republican Party. And I'm old enough to
remember when the best we could produce was Mitt Romney.
Now you look at that stage, and you look at
the heavy hitters and the young up and comers. You
look at how strong the positions are and the communication
of people like Stephen Miller and jd Vance and Tulca Gabbard,
even people like Erica Kirk, and you look at the
many millennials and members of gen Z that are in
that room that are ready to take up the torch
and that actually have a cause and a purpose that
is driving them beyond just hating Donald Trump. There is
so much to be hopeful for for the future of
the party, and this past weekend just really inspired confidence
in that and so I am very excited. And of
course there are plenty of things that could derail it,
but this weekend just put into stark focus the fact
that the Republican Party and the coalition that Charlie Kirk
helps build is so much bigger than Donald Trump. And
while he was such a great pick for this moment,
he won't be around forever. He's only got a couple
more years in office, but the movement will long outlive him,
and that was abundantly clear. You know, I can only
imagine what this moment would have looked like under a
Kamala Harris presidency. Do you remember when she was promoting
abortion at a campaign stop in the twenty twenty four election,
and some pro lifers in the crowd started shouting Jesus's Lord,
and this was her response, Oh, you.
Speaker 3: Guys are at the wrong rally. No, I think you
meant to go to the smaller one down the street.
Speaker 1: I mean this with all sincerity. Thank god we are
not walking through this assassination moment with Kamala Harris at
the helm. And I think what we saw on Sunday
was a huge indictment of the never Trump spokesman such
as David French and Russell Moore, who warned that Donald
Trump would be such a moral stain on the party
that either we would be less politically effective or less Christian. Well,
look at the event. They could not have been more
wrong on both counts. I mean, just look at Erica
Kirk's speech. She didn't just talk about the utmost importance
of upright men and women embracing their unique God given
roles and prioritizing marriage and families, but she also shows
what it looks like to love and forgive our enemies.
So that's both a political win and a spiritual win.
And I don't think anybody out there can argue that
Erica Kirk is not effective. But beyond that, the gospel
was also shared so many times at the memorial, And
here are just a few.
Speaker 4: Jesus left the glory of Heaven's thrown for the humiliation
of an earthly cross. He was fully tempted, yet was
without sin. For those of you who struggle with the
word sin, it's real simple. It's an archer's term. Where
the bulls eye is and where the arrow lands that's
called the sin distance. How far are you fallen from perfection?
And there are none righteous, no, not one. We've all
missed the mark the bulls eye. And we try to
get to God by our efforts, but there is no
effort that will bring us back into the presence of
a righteous God. You see, the wages of sin is death.
Charlie knew this, and at an early age he entrusted
his life to the savior of the world. Jesus came
to this earth, was tempted in all ways, yet was
without sin, was crucified upon a cross. His blood was
poured out because blood must be shed for the remission
of sins, and his death upon that cross sufficient for
all the world's sins. But only efficient for those who,
like Charlie, would receive him as their savior. Jesus has
come to seek and save that which is lost. And
I would say this to all of you. The Lord
loves you. He wants to save you. He wants to
give you a new life. He wants to cover the
multitude of your sins by the blood he shed upon
the cross. The Bible says, if you believe in your
heart and you confess with your tongue Jesus's Lord, you
will be saved to the glory of the Father.
Speaker 5: Now, I want you to know that Charlie right now
is in heaven. Not because he was a great husband
and father, Not because he saved millions of kids out
of darkness on college campuses, not because he changed minds
and chased votes to save the country, not because he
sacrificed himself for his savior. Charlie Kirk is in heaven
because his Savior sacrificed himself for Charlie Kirk. Now, look,
there's only two things you can get in the afterlife.
You can get justice or you can get grace. Ladies
and gentlemen, does anyone in here, does anybody out there
watching around the world want justice from an infinitely just being.
I don't want justice, I want grace. Well, the only
way to get grace for an infinitely just being is
for him to punish an innocent substitute in our place.
Where can he find in his substitute among us? He can't.
Speaker 6: We're all fallen.
Speaker 5: So what does this infinitely justin infinitely loving God do.
He adds humanity to his deity. He comes to earth,
He allows the creatures that rebelled against him to torture
and kill him so he could place their punishment upon himself.
And then by trusting in him, every one of us
can be forgiven and then given his righteousness. Ladies and gentlemen,
this is the greatest story ever told, and it happens
to be true. There's evidence for this, and Charlie knew it.
Speaker 7: That we were all created, every single one of us,
before the beginning of time, by the hands of the
God of the universe and all powerful God, who loved
us and created us for the purpose of living with
him in eternity. But then sin entered the world and
separated us.
Speaker 6: From our creator.
Speaker 7: And so God took on the form of a man
and came down and lived among us, and he suffered
like men, and.
Speaker 3: He died like a man.
Speaker 7: But on the third day he rose unlike any mortal man.
And then, and to prove any doubters wrong, he ate
with his disciples so they could see, and they touched
his wounds. He didn't rise as a ghost or as
a spirit, but his flesh.
Speaker 8: And then he rose to the heaven.
Speaker 7: But he promised he would return, and he will.
Speaker 1: From Rob McCoy to Frank Turk to even Marco Rubio
and more. Now multiply that by the more than one
hundred million people who streamed the memorial and the almost
one hundred thousand more that were in the stadium. Millions
and millions and millions of people heard the Gospel not once,
not twice, but so many times. If they missed it
the first time or the second time, they might have
heard it the third, or the fifth or the eighth time.
It was shared over and over and over. And in
light of all that, the never Trump arguments about Donald
Trump's character are all just blather. At the end of
the day, we now have an environment where Christianity can
be pro claimed to the masses and be respected even
by people who don't yet believe, and that is huge,
and that's certainly not something we would have had under
a Kamala Harris presidency. And it reminds me of the
Apostle Paul's a letter to the Philippian Church, where he says, quote,
it is true that some preach Christ out of envy
and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. The latter do
so out of love, knowing that I am put here
for the defense of the Gospel. The former preach Christ
out of selfish ambition, not sincerely supposing that they can
stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.
But what does it matter? The important thing is that
in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ
is preached. And because of this I rejoice, yes, and
I will continue to rejoice. So Yes, there were many
at Charlie's memorial and watching from afar who don't believe,
including many of the speakers on stage. But there are
also many who do believe, And there are also many
who are brand new to the faith. And to you,
I want to offer both an encouragement and a caution,
if I may first a note of encouragement. If you
have come to Christ because of Charlie Kirk's martyrdom. You
have made the best decision you could ever make. And
that's not to say the Christian life is easy, ask
Erica Kirk. But as she encouraged you on Sunday, this
isn't just something you choose once and then put on
the back burner. Christianity is a daily taking up your
cross and following Jesus. So read your Bible, pray, repent
of your sins, go to church, and then do it
all again and again and again. And if you're a believer,
the Holy Spirit is now in dwelling you and will
empower you. So make sure you listen to him, keep
reading scripture, keep going, keep growing, be encouraged. And if
you don't yet have a Christian community, find a gospel
preaching church and get plugged in. But also I want
to offer a quick word of caution to what I
would call cultural Christians, the people who like the idea
of Christianity and its morals, and those who really liked
Charlie Kirk and his beliefs and his politics, and people
who feel like a part of Christianity because you share
the same conservative politics as the Christian sitting next to you.
But can I offer a caution that we make sure
that we let our faith in Jesus inform our politics
and not the other way around. I think there will
be a temptation here, and I know the devil will
be working overtime, but a temptation to see the type
of evil that drives a young man to assassinate a
thirty one year old father, and to cast that evil
as something that's foreign to you, that evil exists out
there but not in here, or to hear the Gospel
and to view it as something the Democrat Party really
needs to hear, or to think that you are on
the side of Jesus just because you're on the same
political team as Charlie Kirk. Scripture tells us that even
our righteous deeds are nothing but filthy rags in light
of God's perfect holiness. Evil is not just a thing
that needs solving in our country. Evil is something that
needs solving in each and every one of our own hearts.
Another word for evil is sin. And there's only one solution,
and it's not the GOP and it's not an impressive
memorial service. It is the good news that even though
your sin does separate you from God, and there is
no way, no way, no political activism, you can do,
no good deeds, you can do, no moral thing, you
can do, no being on the right team or with
the right people that you can do to work your
way back to God. But it's the good news that
He sent Jesus to us instead to pay the penalty
of death that we deserve. We all deserve it, whether
you're an assassin or you're just a gossip, and then
to rise from the dead three days later, defeating sin
and eternal death for all who turn from their sin
and believe on his name. So, if you're just a
cultural Christian, if you're just watching from the sidelines and
admiring Charlie Kirk's faith from afar, or thinking you're a
part of it because you're a Republican, don't delay becoming
a real Christian. The Savior that radically transformed Charlie Kirk's
life is ready and willing to transform yours too if
you call upon him so do it today. There is
plenty more to discuss as it relates to the Charlie
Kirk Memorial. So joining me now to talk about it
is Meghan Basham. Meghan welcome, Thanks so much, for joining
me today.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me, Kylie. It's great to be here.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Meghan is a culture reporter at The Daily Wire and
also an author. She wrote the book Shepherd's For Sale,
and if you haven't read it yet, you should. And
if you don't follow her on Twitter, what are you doing?
You should follow her on Twitter as well. I follow
her there every day and she's been very helpful for
me and a very clarifying voice in a very fraught culture. So, Meghan,
I would love to know, first of all, just your
impression of the memorial service overall. What did you think
of it? And were you there in person or watching
from afar.
Speaker 6: I wasn't so I have surgery tomorrow and nothing major.
It was just kind of the last piece of some
cancer treatment that you know, cancer is gone, but we
knew I would have this kind of final surgery, which
is a good surgery. They're kind of reversing some things
that they had to do while I was going through treatment.
So excited about that. But for that reason, I didn't
go because I just felt like it was going to
be too much. But I'm also kind of glad I
didn't because I was able to sit home and watch
like live reactions on social media as I was watching it,
and what struck me was, first of all, I've never
seen anything like that, not just in terms of the
outpouring of love affection condolences for Charlie and Erica and
their family, but I have never seen our federal officials,
a president's cabinet give glory to Jesus Christ specifically like that.
I mean, we've all kind of in the past, had
even our most Christian identified president, somebody like George W.
Bush make sort of vague allusions to God, and they
may talk about being a Christian, but I have never seen,
you know, the Secretary of State laying out a full
gospel presentation.
Speaker 1: Yes, I mean that.
Speaker 6: Just floored me. Or you know, to have our Secretary
of War, Pete Hegseth saying, you know, the blood of
Jesus to wipe away our sins, and so it just
felt like almost like a revival. I know a lot
of people are talking about that, and that seemed to
be the impact that it was having on people at home,
because as I was sitting there, riveted watching the entire thing,
I'm at the same time scrolling and you're seeing people,
you know, people that I know personally that are atheists
going you know, I started going to church because I'm
just so struck by this moment and what Charlie stood for.
Or you know, I saw a Muslim woman say I'm
really interested in what these Christians have because they seem
very different. So, you know, I mean, it's been said
by a lot of people now, but it really did
kind of feel like an old time tent revival.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. One thing that really struck me was and I mean, okay,
I know that the Holy Spirit does not need our
persuasive abilities in order to draw people to the Lord.
Like clearly God is the one who does all of
the work, and like we can be the we can
share the gospel in the most clumsy way, and He
can still use that to bring to bring people to himself.
But I was so encouraged, and it was just the
coolest thing to watch the same gospel presented in different
ways by multiple people, like everybody from Frank Turk to
Rob McCoy to, like you said, Marco Rubio. It was
like they're all sharing the exact same gospel, but you
never know how it's going to resonate with different people
depending on how it's presented, and so that was just
such a unique moment, I thought, just multiple people saying
the same thing in different ways.
Speaker 6: It was and you know, I wrote about it a
little bit and what I said was, I don't you know,
I'm not under the illusion that every single person who
was on that stage is a Christian. I know some aren't,
but I have never seen an administration so willing to
say that, you know, not only do we tolerate or
welcome Christians into the administration and to serve, but we're
we're even if I'm not personally a Christian, We're giving
a full throated, wholehearted endorsement to Christianity on this stage.
And yeah, so that was really interesting. And you know,
for me seeing even someone like Telsea Gabbard, who I
believe is a Hindu, still recognizing and honoring the faith
of Charlie Kirk and the God that Charlie Kirk worships,
I mean, that was meaningful to me. And I felt
like this is sort of a restoration and a reclaiming
of America as a Christian nation.
Speaker 1: Frankly, yes, absolutely, just the respect for it on the
stage and the Tulsie Gabbard one in particular, as I
was listening to her speech, there were some several things
she said that, you know, kind of kind of make
me pause and cringe a little bit because they're like
not quite right. But she's also out there sharing scripture,
and it's like scripture doesn't return void, whether it's a
Christian saying it or not, Like that's still the truth
being proclaimed, whether whether she's a Christian or not. So right,
I saw plenty of criticism, of course, of the Memorial
as well, both on one side of the spectrum from
people who you know, sort of smeared it or dismissed
it as Christian nationalist. But then on the other side
there were plenty of people who criticized it as like syncretic,
and so I would love to get your thoughts on
what I thought was an excellent essay by Pastor rich
Lusk another excellent Twitter follow. If you don't follow him,
definitely do. But he wrote about some of the strongest
gospel moments of the Memorial and also observed what you
were just talking about about the respect for Christianity in
that room, even among attendees who weren't actually Christians. But
this is what he wrote in his piece, and I
want to get your thoughts on this, he said, quote
Reformed Christians might be tempted to look down on the
style of worship and music in the service and the
imprecise theology on display. We shouldn't resist that temptation. What
good is mature theology if you don't enter the fray
and get into the battle. Evangelicals charging the gates of
Hell with slingshots and baby guns are more effective than
Reformed Christians who leave their jet fighters in the hangar
and their battleships in the dock. And immature theology combined
with courage and a willingness to act, will always be
more effective than mature theology and worship that never enter
the fray. Reform Christians love to be the Monday Morning
quarterback who criticized the normy evangelicals in the arena, but
those who are in the arena are the ones through
whom God is working to bring change end quote Wow,
and what an image of storming the gates of Hell
with the baby gun. But I would love to get
your thoughts on that and whether you agree disagree what
you think.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I actually retweeted that particular part of it because
I did agree, And you know, I come out of
a reform tradition. I for those who follow me, well know,
I'm a big John MacArthur fan. I'm a Calvinist, and
so if I air, I probably do tend to air
towards that judgmental you know, doctrinal sifting going. They didn't
quite have their doctrine right here, or this was airror.
So I get that impulse, and yet at the same time,
I go, we cannot constrain the Holy Spirit and what
was clearly happening there. And my friend Natasha Crane, who
if you don't know her, she's an other author, and
you know she has a great podcast with Alisa Childers
and does a lot of work in apologetics, and she
talked about what she took away from Charlie's example and
what I think you could take away from this memorial.
Was always wanting to write and not speak, because she
wants to have her doctrinal points down pat and not
have anybody criticize and say you mess this up or
you didn't get this right. And I'm paraphrasing. It's been
a couple days since I read it, so if I'm
paraphrasing wrong, forgive me, Natasha, But what it felt like
she was saying to me was, there's a point of
pride there that you want to have it perfect instead
of just saying, you know, just speak now. We don't
want to be reckless. But if we're always trying to
get it just perfect, is it about us or is
it about sharing the truth with a lost war? Right?
And so, you know, that was part of what I saw.
And there were things, you know, there were people on
the stage. Again, I know some of the worship leaders
whose doctrine I would not agree with, and yet in
that moment, I realize that they're they're bringing an American
audience to Christ, they're presenting the gospel, they're doing those things,
and so, you know, I don't know all their hearts,
but even if their doctrine is wrong, I kind of went,
this is a good moment. And even if you know,
Christ is preached by those who don't believe everything just
the way they should, He's still being preached. And I
think that was a really good thing. So, and that's
not to minimize the importance of doctrine. I do think
it's important. I think these you know, distinctions are important.
And yet I feel like this is a moment for
not quenching the Holy Spirit, so to speak. I mean,
it just felt like to me there was such a
recognition that we as a nation need not just God,
but Jesus Christ. And so you know, I wouldn't want
to step on that message with nitpicking at this point, right.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, that post that you're referencing by Natasha was
excellent and what an effective lie from the enemy that
pride that we we cannot be effective if we can't
say things perfectly. And I mean, that was just an
excellent post. I resonated a lot with it, and just
to bring it full circle, I mean, I think if
I'm recalling correctly, and I also read it a few
days ago. She was specifically referencing how she would nitpick,
especially the early days of Charlie Kirk, of like, ooh,
I wouldn't I wouldn't quite say that that way, or
maybe that's too abrasive or whatever, and just the fact
that it's like, look in that room, look around the globe.
You know, hundreds of millions of people witnessing the gospel
because of a guy who was willing to just get
up and say the thing, even if it was a
little bit clumsy, or even if it wasn't perfectly finessed.
And I mean, you could argue that by the time,
by the time he died, like he really had finessed
his message. And you know, but that's that's a really
important point, just to be willing to stand up and
say what needs to be said, even if it's not
you know, the perfect messenger. So you also tweeted quote,
this memorial is the nail in the coffin of third Wayism.
Praise God, no more lukewarm inoffensive Christian end quote. For
listeners who are maybe not as familiar with the terminology
here or with Tim Keller's approach to civic life and politics,
can you explain what you mean by that?
Speaker 6: Yes, So for those who aren't familiar with third Wayism.
And I actually just wrote a piece that was published
yesterday for Daily Wire where I kind of got into this.
So if you go back to twenty sixteen, Russell Moore,
who is now the editor in chief of Christianity Today,
but was then the head of the Ethics and Religious
Liberty Commission, which is the policy arm of the Southern
Baptist Convention, largest Protestant denomination. He wrote this thing in
The Washington Post in twenty sixteen where he basically said
Trump is the end of the religious right, meaning that
Christians who supported him because of his policies are now
so discredited that the next generation of Christians are either
not going to be political or the next generation of
Conservatives aren't going to be Christians. So he's basically saying
the James Dobson, Jerry Folwell moral majority model that we
saw back in the eighties and nineties, that's over now
because of Trump. And that was something that he was
very much aligned with Tim Keller on. Tim Keller was
also he said, I've never said I'm never Trump, and
you know, we lost tim Keller it was two years
ago now, but he was clearly very opposed to Trump.
Any time he spoke about him or wrote about him,
it was always with a tone of I am concerned
about what trump Ism is doing to Christianity in the
United States and doing to our evangelical witness in the US.
And so tim Keller published this blueprint for how Christians
could bring about revival in the United States, and in
this blueprint he basically said that political moderates were going
to need to separate from Trump supporters, and what he
laid out was that Christian is neither right nor left
and that Christians should not follow a donkey or an elephant,
they follow Christ. And to a certain extent that's true.
But for Keller, what that meant was, we don't pick
a side. Then politically we are this third thing that is,
you know, somewhere in the middle or somewhere outside of politics,
which sounds good, but boots on the ground, it doesn't work.
You have to pick aside. And then the other thing
that it did was Keller's third wayism that would say
we're neither right nor left. It elevated what I would
call biblically debatable issues, things like what should our border
policies be, How do we approach a subject like climate change.
Do we believe that, you know, human activity is creating
catastrophic meteorological changes or is it, you know, just something
that happens naturally and we're not having that big of
an impact. So those are things that I would say
there was not a clear biblical imperative, But for someone
like Keller, they would say these social justice you know,
that was an issue that you spoke out about a
lot immigration, that those have the same weight as something
to me that has much more moral clarity, like abortion
or should we you know, perform transgender procedures and treatments
on children. So he would say, we're going to do
this third way thing, and by doing this and by
not identifying with right or left, that is going to
show that we as Christians embrace this third thing. We
don't belong to either party. So obviously when we're talking
about Charlie Kirk, he did something very different.
Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, And it's so funny now looking back
on that, just the fallacy of because okay, so third
way ism, I mean that really paved the way for
the after party, and that the never trump ism of
the David Frenches and the Russell Morrison you know, on
and on that list is it's not actually long, but
there's quite a litany of them.
Speaker 6: And boy are they active. You just see them all
the time. So it feels like there's a.
Speaker 1: Lot, right, I think my algorithm punishes me. But but
they they do pick a side. They purport to be
this objective you know, third third way, but in actuality
it's you know, it's always nuance, left punch right. They've
clearly chosen a side. It's not a third way.
Speaker 6: So that's the I think what they were really trying.
I mean, and when you kind of push away all
the rhetoric and the jargon of third way and both sides,
what you really get to is they were trying to
make room for Christians to vote for Democrats. That's the
bottom line. As they were trying to say, well, yes,
abortion is wrong and we shouldn't kill babies, but if
you also feel like we need to grant amnesty to
these people who've been in the United States, that's also
an important issue, so maybe you want to vote for
a Democrat, Whereas I would go, these two things are
not moral equivalents, right, One is murder and one is
a debatable issue.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And they did this a lot by conflating
a person's personality i e. Trump with the Democrat policies
or vice versa, where you know, you would look at, yeah,
well Trump is more pro life or less less pro abortion,
but he's he's irredeemably a bad guy. You know, he
personally has all of these problems. Whereas Joe Biden, Sure
he you know, supports abortion, but look at his moral character,
which I also think was was false, but just didn't
work either.
Speaker 6: I'm like, yeah, look at his moral character, right.
Speaker 1: He's a jerk. Yeah, But we were never comparing you know,
policies with policies and character with character. It was always
tarnishing Trump supporters by their character while ignoring the policy implications,
which were huge they really really can't be ignored.
Speaker 6: So well, I was sorry. I didn't mean to Stephanie,
but I was just gonna say when I when I
look at it as I mean, they would have argued
too that we did this for evangelistic reasons. We didn't
want to put up stumbling blocks to people coming to
Christ by suggesting that, you know, we believe that homosexuality
is a sin, and if we're going to be really
bold about that at the outset, then that will, you know,
prevent some people in where Keller was ministering in New
York City from coming to Christ. Well, you know, I
when I sit back now and look at someone like
Charlie Kirk, I actually think that what we're seeing is
that the Keller more model was wrong, and the Charlie
Kirk model, which is being unashamed and being bold and saying, actually,
we believe these things are sin. We believe this is murder,
we believe this is immoral. That those actually had more
tendency to draw people in a world that's starving for truth.
But I think that's what they would have said. I mean,
you know, if we look at that Kirsten Power's essay
that she wrote, she went to Tim Keller's church for
quite a number of years. I understand she was a
Democrat CNN contributor, and when he died, she wrote a
sort of a eulogy memorial for him, and in it
she noted that she didn't know for a long time
when she was going to their to Tim Keller's church,
that the church believed that abortion was murder or that
homosexuality was a sin. Because those things weren't talked about
from the pulpit. She kind of had to find it
out on the sly, in the small groups and just
sort of, she said, through osmosis, she kind of figured out, oh,
I think this is what they believe, but she didn't
know it from the preaching from the pulpit.
Speaker 1: Right right. And I think there are certain political issues
where if you don't know your church, your church's stance
on it, you know, fine, like if the truth if
your pastor is not getting up on Sunday and talking
about tax policy, that's probably a good thing.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 1: But abortion and and uh the sexes are not political issues.
These are inherently biblical issues. And so if you don't
know what scripture has to say about them, or they're
not coming up, you know, even in the course of
a year or two years from the pulpit and like
as your expositing scripture, that's that's a problem because they're
not just political issues, they're they're fundamentally biblical issues. So, uh,
that kind of gets to my next question, which is
to what degree and maybe you don't think at all,
but to what degree you think that Charlie's life and
then also the response to his death indicts the modern
American Church? So, in other words, do you think there's
a cause and effect relationship between this third wayism and
the winsomeness gospel much of the church taking kind of
a passive role in the formation of young men specifically,
and Charlie's style of engaging them directly with not only
the Gospel but like practical biblical truths.
Speaker 6: Yes, I mean, so your question is how much impact
do I think Charlie's model had and do I think
the winsomeness approach that we saw for the last couple
of decades that that failed young men? Is that the question?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so, like, is Charlie's ministry and the effectiveness of
his ministry to what degree do you think that's an
indictment on the church and how it's failed to sort
of address these issues? Sorry, I asked it.
Speaker 6: That's good, and I think it's a pretty big indictment.
You know, I look at how many young men are
coming back to church, and you know, we're seeing some
statistics and I don't have them in front of me,
but I know, you know, we've just seen some studies
showing that, and the New York Times actually reported on
this that right now young men identify as more religious,
more Christian than young women since we've been looking at
that issue. So like, for the first time in recorded history,
the young men are saying that they are more likely
to go to church, but they are more likely to
read their Bible, that they are more Christian. And I
cannot help but pinpoint that specifically on Charlie's work with
TPUSA Faith and TPUSA on the college campuses, because I
feel like nobody else was speaking to these young men.
They were not the desirable demographic we're talking about, you know,
particularly young white guys in maybe suburban or rural areas
who were just not seen as the type of harvest
let's say that we were looking to reap. So instead
what you saw from all of these ministries, and it
was hugely influential. I mean Tim Keller's model of urban evangelism,
and it had some merits for its time and place,
but it took over everywhere, so that you had all
of these churches thinking, well, we have to reach a
certain type of you know, urban ethnically diverse and typically
left leaning kind of potential congregant. Those are the people
we're trying to reach. And a friend of mine puts
this in a I think a really sharp and helpful way.
If you know Joe Rigney. He talks about the progressive
gaze that all of these ministries and pastors had, and
by that he means gaze. So they have this idea
that when they imagine who they're trying to reach, their
default is I'm trying to reach a young, urban progressive
and that's why they would be so soft on talking
about these particular issues that might be offensive to that person.
Whereas then you have with Charlie Kirk, who did not
care about that. I mean, he went out and talked
to everybody, but you particularly saw young men responding. And
so you know, when I see these statistics showing that
these young men are coming back to the church, that
they're reading their Bible, that they're becoming more conservative. At
the same time, by the way, we've seen a huge
shift in young men becoming more conservative. I'm not saying
it's just Charlie Kirk that did that, but I think
Charlie Kirk's ministry, and I use that word very deliberately
because it was a ministry helped create the cultural atmosphere
and landscape that allowed that to happen.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, because Charlie was offering something that most of
the other influential speakers who were appealing to young men,
he offered them something that they didn't. You know, there
are a lot of good things that young men can
glean from the Joe Rogan experience, and can glean from
listening to Jordan Peterson or you know, even other parts
of the manosphere. You know, take it or leave it.
There's like parts they're good and parts that are bad,
but all of them fall short by They can offer purpose,
and they can offer you know, temporal purpose and good
rules for life for you know, getting your life kind
of on track, but they don't offer eternal hope. And
Charlie Kirk did and so that obviously set him apart.
And yeah, it absolutely was a ministry.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's great, and Charlie Kirk to me, look, I
love Jordan Peterson, but it is there's a disconnect when
you go I find utilitarian value in Christianity, but I'm
not a Christian that is not going to move and
transform people. Those of us who are Christians understand, Yes,
that's true. Living by Christian principles is good, but it's
not the same as understanding I am a sinner and
my fallen nature will always desire that which is harmful
and destructive, and so I need transformation internally from the
inside out by something outside of myself, by a power
outside of myself. I cannot change these things on my own.
And that is the difference between you know, some of
these influencers on young men who may have done some
very valuable work, but they're not giving them the ultimate
value of you are not just you know, sort of
chiseling off the rough edges. You were becoming a new creation.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, exactly exactly, So just pivoting a tiny bit.
The day after Charlie Kirk died, our friends over at
Christianity Today, where Russell Moore is the editor in chief,
ran with this headline, I'm going to put it on
the screen quote died Charlie Kirk, activist who championed maga doctrine. Obviously,
they got a lot of pushback for this headline, and
this article was written by the same guy who wrote
a whole article calling into question the biblical accuracy of
Jesus being nailed to the cross and then later had
to apologize. But then this week Christianity Today seemed to
pivot pretty hard to this framing. These headlines read Charlie
Kirk's five hour memorial combined gospel and politics. It mentions
that Erica Kirk forgave her husband's killer the worship, YadA, YadA.
And then the other headline, why Charlie Kirk landed with
young men like me, which is another pretty glowing looking article. Here,
I saw you tweeting about this, and I'm wondering if
you think that this is something we can or should
celebrate without real repentance from the leadership of Christianity today.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I am. I'm really conflicted about this, and I
was kind of, you know, just riffing. I was literally
dictating into my phone as I put up that. I
didn't remember now what it said. It was several paragraphs
a long, but I was just dictating into my phone,
riffing on my thoughts about what do I do with
this reaction in Christianity today, because you know, in that
initial headline, as you can see, they make no mention
of his faith, no mention of the the gospel preaching
that he did, of the evangelistic wing of his organization,
they didn't mention that at all. And a lot of
people rightfully contrasted that with them trying to grab anything
they could with George Floyd to go, Look, he was
this laudable human being, so they said, George Floyd left
a gospel legacy, which, look, I'm glad that George Floyd
had moments in his life, parts of his life where
he seemed to understand that he needed the Gospel, but
he also died with a huge amount of narcotics in
his system, resisting arrest. So a lot of people, you know,
rightly contrasted Christianity's treatment Charlie Kirk to George Floyd. That
was part of the outrage. And then I look at
what they're doing now, and there's a cynical journalist part
of my brain that goes, this feels like pr cleanup,
like we went too far, we have damaged are already
very tarnished brand. And you know, something to know about
the guy who wrote that headline is as as he's
been covering politics and interviewing politicians for Christianity, he was
also making donations to Democratic candidates, including Elizabeth Warrens. You know,
the person who wrote that headline is a Democrat himself,
So you know, that's an interesting thing to know that
they that maybe they went, oh, he went too far.
He's an anti Kirk person, and now we have to,
you know, clean up the spell on Aisle five. So
on the one hand, I'm of that mind, But on
the other hand, I also kind of take it as
a win because I don't know in recent years that
I've really seen Christianity to day recognize in a way
that I could pinpoint it and go, Okay, they realized
they went too far, Like even for their sort of squishy,
moderate middle audience, they've gone too far. So that's possible,
I mean, and I can't help but see it that way.
But there's also a part of me that's like, maybe
maybe they went and watched a bunch of Charlie Kirk
engaging with these kids on college campuses. Maybe they thought
they understood who he was by reputation and by the
false narratives that they had heard, and when they actually
you know, maybe somebody went, I'm going to go right
up something about his and then they actually saw what
it was.
Speaker 1: Sure, and when.
Speaker 6: You see what it is, you cannot deny the strong
Christian faith and not just Christian faith. But I'm actually
going to use the word the winsomeness of Charlie Kirk
when he would be on these college campuses. He didn't
pull punches about the truth, but he was very kind,
he was very engaging, he was loving when he was
dealing with some of these gender confused kids on college campuses.
And so, you know, you have a hope that maybe
they saw that and recognized we screwed up. This guy
was not who we thought he was.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, maybe that's why Russell Moore's publication let him
in the door, because they finally realized he actually was winsome.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I much more fall into the first of you, I think.
But I also think but yeah, I do think it's
important to give people the opportunity to change course. Also,
but I do think in some ways that requires some
degree of admitting wrongdoing and repenting. But yeah, that's a
great point.
Speaker 6: Look, just a totally you know, crass political love. I'll
also take it as a win because I think the
vibe shift is very real, and you do have some publications.
Gospel Coalition is another that I don't think would have
touched Charlie Kirk with a ten foot poll when he
was alive suddenly lauding him. And I take that as
a win too, because you go, well, there has been
a shift in the Overton window, and you now have
some of these publications that I think are realizing we
are now outside of the window for mainstream Christianity to
the left, and we're going to have to move if
we're going to get back into the mainstream of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, great point. Yeah, I don't subscribe to Christianity today,
but they keep sending me issues in the mail, I
think to try to get me to subscribe us. So
maybe this is just one more effort and to try
to get.
Speaker 6: Like a young gen z probably either.
Speaker 1: Very right at the end of millennial.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so you're actually their target audience. They're like, look,
she's a young woman, young professional, successful woman. You're supposed
to be their target audience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they think that I am the progressive gaze. They're
including me in that because they think I'm part of that.
Yet well, before I let you go, Megan, just to
flip to a more personal note. First of all, I
just want to recycle this wonderful, wonderfully awful tweet that
we got from Ray Ortland and David French. This is
just a great time to remind people because I'm so
curious what this moment would have looked like, and I'm
so glad we don't have to know what this moment
would look like under a Harris presidency, because, honestly, praise
God just for the amount of glory the Lord is getting,
even from our non Christian president Donald Trump, with the
respect for Christianity. But because of that, I know in
my personal life I have seen not just on Twitter,
you know, because of course I've seen lots of tiktoks
and tweets of plenty of people saying I've never opened
the Bible before, but I'm doing it for the first time,
or I don't even know how to pray, but I'm praying,
or I'm going to church this Sunday and I have
never stepped foot in a church or whatever. But even
in my own personal life, I know people who are
coming to church now or you know, this isn't just
this isn't just anecdotes from Twitter. This is real life.
And so I'm wondering, before you go, if you have
any beautiful gospel anecdotes from the past couple of weeks
that you can share with our listeners.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I do. You know, I'll just say that my
husband's trainer, for instance, he's got a young twenty seth
inter trainer when this happened, called and said, hey, can
we come to church with you all? And my husband
had been talking to him about church before that, but
it was this moment I think that made him go, hey,
I'd kind of like to check check out your church
and take him up on the offer. So, you know,
we experience that personally too, that suddenly people in our
own lives were like, my brother's gonna shoot me. But
my brother is one of them, was not typically a
church goer. Love him. I tease him a lot because
I'm his church lady's sister that he needs to get
in church. And he was there that weekend too, So
you know, that was a huge win for me that
I went, yes, what'd you think and he's like, oh,
he's good. So, you know, experiencing it too in our
own lives vibes that I just went all over, there
is a christ curiosity and we need to capitalize on that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. There's a specific some specific people in
my life that I have been not only evangelizing but
praying for for quite a while now, and they came
to church for the past two weeks and I'm just
so there's such a bittersweetness and just like such a
Charlie Kirk legacy to that that it's like, that's exactly
what he would want to see. But I you know,
the first couple of times that you're sharing the gospel,
you don't imagine that these will be the types of
catalyzing moments or the types of things that will water
those seeds, but praise God for any souls in any
way that they come to the Father. Like it's just
it's it's awesome to see it happening. So I love
these personal stories. Get it offline and into the real world.
Speaker 6: So yeah, a man, absolutely agree.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Megan, thank you so much for joining me today.
It was great to have you on the podcast. If
you don't follow Megan Basham on Twitter, like I said,
definitely do that and I really hope to have you
back soon. Thanks so much.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me, It's been great.
Speaker 1: The left wing terrorism continued this week yesterday with an
attack on an ice facility in Texas, And of course,
this was only two weeks after the brutal and public
assassination of conservative activists and Christian Charlie Kirk, which was
only two weeks before the brutal attack on Annunciation Catholic
School in Minnesota that left two children dead and another
more than twenty injured at the hands of a deranged
transgender identifying individual who specifically targeted Christians. And of course,
all of this is despite the media's full court press
to convince Americans that political violence is actually a right
wing problem. Of course, these studies peddled by the media
from the likes of CATO and the Anti Defamation League
have all been widely debunked this week because political terrorism
political violence is in fact, almost exclusively alone left wing problem,
and you can only deduce that it's a right wing
problem when you count non politically motivated attacks and exclude
very politically motivated attacks from the left, such as the
multiple Trump assassination attempts or the Daryl Brooks vehicular terrorism
in Waukeshaw a couple of years ago. So these studies
have been widely widely debunked. And then Wednesday morning we
were reminded again of the left's political violence problem when
a gunman opened fire on an ice facility from a
nearby rooftop. Reports indicate that one person was fatally shot
and another two were wounded. All were detainees at the
ice facility, and then the shooter also took his own life.
We learn almost immediately that unspent shell casings at the
scene were inscribed with anti ICE messaging. Not surprising. Then
we also learned this morning from FBI Director Cash Bettel
that there was a lot of pre attack planning that
took place, including ballistic searches and researching of DHS facilities
and app that track ICE officers, and even the watching
of the video of the Charlie Kirk assassination, and according
to Patel, a handwritten note was recovered either on the
shooter's person or at his home that read quote, hopefully
this will give ICE agents real terror to think. Is
there a sniper with AP rounds on that roof? With
AP in that context referring to armor piercing rounds just
abject evil and undeniable left wing terrorism. And yet here's
what we got from the media, Even after news from
the FBI director himself that the bullets in Wednesday's shooting
were inscribed with anti ICE messaging, the New York Times wrote, quote,
the actual motivation behind the messages written on the bullets
in both mister Kirk's assassination and Wednesday's killing are still
not known, And this was accompanied by a picture of
the bullets with the anti ICE inscription. Insane. Axios went
with quote ICE shooting sparks partisan blame game before facts confirmed. Yes, Axios,
Republicans pounds that's the real problem here. Here's Bill Crystal
saying that actually it's Trump's fault and broadcast networks were
somehow even worse. We shouldn't be surprised. Here's MSNBC.
Speaker 8: Terrorism falls into real really three categories. It's either religiously motivated,
ideologically motivated, or in this case, politically motivated. And the
politically motivated ones. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. It
happens because conditions have been set that people start acting
out against. What are the conditions, So you know, distrusted
institutions that's been building for quite some time, a tax
on institutions, the wealth gap, oppressive policies at least this
is what people perceive. And then the militarization of ice
and other federal law for the wearing of the mask,
aggressive tactics. So the people who are soaring to act
out against this feel it's their only recourse. Again, this
is predictable. We see this happening throughout our history and
in other places as well. So you know, we can
tone down the rhetoric and that that's the right message,
but you also have to start looking at what policies
you've implemented, what tactics you're using, Because if you've torned
down the rhetoric, but you leave those other pieces in place,
nothing's going to.
Speaker 1: Try so I wonder, of course, this is the same
guy who not only said on Wednesday that the shooter
probably wasn't left wing because inscribed bullets is actually a
right wing thing. Seriously, but he's also a former counter
terrorism agent for the FBI, so this kind of rhetoric
from him is particularly insane. At best, MSNBC analysts are
negotiating with terrorists on live television, and at worst, the
whole Democrat Party has transformed into an abusive husband. Well,
if you didn't lawfully exercise power in ways I didn't like,
I wouldn't have to kill you something something stochastic terrorism.
This MSNBC analyst is actually right that political violence doesn't
happen in a vacuum. But here's the environment it happens in.
Speaker 2: Ice is looking more and more like an American gestopo.
Speaker 4: They're huddled around the elevator banks in masks without identifying information.
What a terrifying like these are Gestapo tactics, but.
Speaker 2: It has created this year as they've seen the kind
of fascist Ice Gestapo militias go around Latino American citizens
in places like La Ice. Agents masked Ice Gestapo agents
getting more funding than any other law enforcement agency in
the history of the United States.
Speaker 9: Ice running GESTOPO like around our country.
Speaker 2: The Gestapo had the same function. It was there to
draw distinction between us and them. It was not federally,
it was controlled from the by the leader. And we're
seeing a disturbing similarities between this force and the Gestapo.
Speaker 9: We've got these masked thu cowards kidnapping innocent people and
sending them off to be slaves or tortured in other countries.
Speaker 5: Dressing like thugs and acting like thugs.
Speaker 1: Democrat politicians and activists and media incite violence again and
again and again. Now we're seeing explicit calls on Georgetown
University's campus and on the streets of Virginia, and I'm
sure many many other places across the country that just
haven't made their way to social media yet that the
time for nonviolent action is over. And then we get
pathetic calls from lawmakers that we need to bring down
the temperature and stop the violence on both sides and
be unified against political violence, and requests for Democrats to
police themselves. And these calls are just so incredibly tone
deaf and embarrassing here is Ted Cruz standing athwart history, shouting,
please stop shooting us, Please stop calling us Nazis.
Speaker 9: This is the third shooting in Texas directed at ICE
or CBP. This must stop. To every politician who is
using rhetoric demonizing ICE and demonizing CBB stop.
Speaker 1: This is not going to stop unless the Trump administration
and our lawmakers use the full force of the federal
government to make these terrorists and those who incite them
pay dearly. Republicans and or Conservatives control all three branches
of government, and Americans and law enforcement officers are being
gunned down in public for the simple fact of being
Christians or part of the Republican administration, often by people
affiliated with Antifa or other terrorist networks, or pumped full
of synthetic wrong sex hormones at the direction of the
Democrat Party. Enough is enough, Trump and the rest of
the party should be using every single tool at our disposal.
The people who run the group that put up the
Georgetown poster for instan should be having the FBI knocking
down their doors. Already, strip any university that allows this
type of behavior of any government funding or any special status,
and criminalize the trans medical racket and start throwing so
called health care providers in prison who pump these troubled
kids full of testosterone and exacerbate their mental illness. And
don't even start with retorts that this could set a
dangerous precedent and that Democrats could just turn this around
on Republicans when they get back in power. Just stop,
where have you been? You mean like spying on Christians
or investigating parents who don't want their kindergarteners exposed to
gay porn as domestic terrorists or domestic extremists, or raiding
the home of their chief political opponent and seeking to
bankrupt and imprison him and the people who support him,
or debanking people for the crime of being conservative, or
disbarring lawyers who have conservative defendants. Democrats weaponized the full
power of the federal government against Conservatives for years, and
they did it using ridiculous pretexts and bogus charges. Republicans
using the federal government's legitimate power to punish legitimate crimes
up to and including terrorism and murderous conspiracy is not
an abuse of power. It's the only acceptable use of it,
and it is not unprincipled to say so. The time
has come. Enough is enough. We cannot continue to see
headlines like this, and see videos like this, and learn
information like this about more attacks and more terrorism every
two weeks or even more frequently than that. The American
people are done and conservatives are in power right now,
so they need to do something about it. That doesn't
include going out and saying to the press Democrats need
to stop. No, we need to make them stop, all
right and not incredibly upbeat and happy. Note that is
all for me today now that I am all fired up,
Thank you so much for tuning into this week's episode
of the Kylie Cast. We will be right back here
next week with more. Don't miss it until then, be
lovers of freedom and anxious for the Fray, and I
will see you next week