WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>And ETF is not good or bad. It is just

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<v Speaker 1>a wrapper, right, It just it's a function of what

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<v Speaker 1>you put in it. And the same way ah, just

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<v Speaker 1>US treasury is not good or bad. It's just a

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<v Speaker 1>function of like what is in it and what do

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<v Speaker 1>you do with that capital. ETFs are like one of

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<v Speaker 1>the most democratizing you know, structures that have been financial

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<v Speaker 1>services has ever created.

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<v Speaker 2>Would you look to explore investing in assets that are

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<v Speaker 2>tokenized on the Avalanche blockchain? Potentially?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, again, tokenization is inevitable.

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<v Speaker 2>This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which is

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<v Speaker 2>just simply have to open the app once per month,

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<v Speaker 2>once per month. And the stable coins that they support

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<v Speaker 2>includes Ripples, r L USD. You can earn up the

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<v Speaker 2>five percent on that stable coin and five point two

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<v Speaker 2>five percent on USBC. So if you'd like to learn

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<v Speaker 2>more about Uphold and all the great services they offer,

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<v Speaker 2>visit the link in the description. Hey, folks, welcome into

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<v Speaker 2>the Thinking Crypto Podcast. I'm your host Tony Edward and

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<v Speaker 2>joining me today is Bart Smith, who is the CEO

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<v Speaker 2>and chairman of the Avalanche Treasury Co.

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<v Speaker 1>Bart. Great to have you, Thanks, Johnny. Looking forward to it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Bart, excited to talk about what you're doing in

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<v Speaker 2>building an Avax treasury strategy. I'm an Avax token holders.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm excited to get into the details. Well, let's kick

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<v Speaker 2>it off with your background. Tell us about where you're

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<v Speaker 2>from and your professional background.

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<v Speaker 1>So I've been in you know, in finance for whatever

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five or thirty years almost at this point, worked

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<v Speaker 1>in in asset management and I worked you know, at

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<v Speaker 1>ubs for a while, I was one of the original

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<v Speaker 1>founders of an ETF firm that was eventually sold to

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<v Speaker 1>Columbia Funds. And then and then from there I went

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<v Speaker 1>to work at Susquehanna. I was at Susquehanna for thirteen

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<v Speaker 1>years collectively. Most of the time there I was responding.

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<v Speaker 1>I ran the ETF group. I was also responsible at

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<v Speaker 1>times for so in some international sales and trading stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>I ran our credit trading business. And then since twenty fourteen,

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<v Speaker 1>I was responsible for anything that was digital asset related.

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<v Speaker 1>And then kind of in twenty twenty two, kind of

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<v Speaker 1>giving the regulatory environment, we made the decision to create

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<v Speaker 1>Susquehanna Crypto, which was not part of the Susquehanna group

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<v Speaker 1>of companies. It was a separate entity outside of the

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<v Speaker 1>Susquhenda group. It was based in Bahamas and with offices

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<v Speaker 1>in London Hong Kong, which you know, we were a

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<v Speaker 1>derivative trading shop, proprietary shop, market maker, and we did

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<v Speaker 1>a fair amount of investing into the ecosystem and a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of DeFi so a pretty well rounded business there.

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<v Speaker 1>And then departed in it's late August after thirteen great

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<v Speaker 1>years there to lead this new digitalised treasury. That's incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>You got a pretty strong pedigree. You mentioned twenty fourteen

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<v Speaker 2>you were looking at digital assets. What was your first

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<v Speaker 2>encounter with bitcoin and crypto and when did they click

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<v Speaker 2>for you?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, it was only one right, twenty fourteen. So

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<v Speaker 1>effectively we were just interested in the concept of bitcoin,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, we were just you know, we were

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<v Speaker 1>basically just like investing in bitcoin long there wasn't really

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<v Speaker 1>much more to do there, you know, as in the

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<v Speaker 1>ICO boom in the twenty on the teen timeframe, we

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<v Speaker 1>became very active in a limited number of tokens where

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<v Speaker 1>we were quite sure that the SEC was going to

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<v Speaker 1>name you know, certain commodities as commodities and not name

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<v Speaker 1>them as securities, and so we kind of limit our

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<v Speaker 1>approach mostly to those names like cooin, bitcoin, bitcoin cash, ethereum,

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<v Speaker 1>and theorem classic, stuff like that. And then kind of

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<v Speaker 1>as there was that ICO correction in twenty eighteen, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we went to try to kind of expand and kind

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<v Speaker 1>of set up like a proper OTC desk, and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we just really couldn't get terribly comfortable with kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the legal and regulatory advice that we were getting and

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<v Speaker 1>others were getting, and so, you know, we kind of

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<v Speaker 1>were very interested in the space. We made a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of direct investments over that time, but kind of there

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<v Speaker 1>was a period there for a while where we weren't

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<v Speaker 1>as active as maybe some of the other kind of

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<v Speaker 1>bigger US market making firms, and then kind of near

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty twenty one kind of run up, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>when we kind of made the decision that if if

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<v Speaker 1>we want to do this, and Susquehanna and my person

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<v Speaker 1>all kind of view of the world is taking a

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<v Speaker 1>very conservative approach towards legal and reguatory compliance, and that

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<v Speaker 1>just meant, you know, doing it offshore. And we knew

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<v Speaker 1>that people were doing it in the US and they

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<v Speaker 1>were using VPNs and you know they which really just

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<v Speaker 1>means they're they're you know, they are you know, they're

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<v Speaker 1>they're not abiding by they're terms of service. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just in a broader sense, if we were

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<v Speaker 1>going to do this, we wanted to do it in

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<v Speaker 1>the most compliant and effective manner, which meant, unfortunately, in

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<v Speaker 1>that timeframe, you know, going offshore, and that's what we did.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, we set up a global business that was

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<v Speaker 1>in three time zones but just not you know, in

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<v Speaker 1>the US.

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<v Speaker 2>BART things have changed so much drastically since twenty fourteen.

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<v Speaker 2>We went from being taboo and the stigma of this

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<v Speaker 2>being used by criminals to this full blown asset class

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<v Speaker 2>that now Wall Street firms are jumping all in. They're

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<v Speaker 2>going neck deep adopting, launching, crypto trading, custody, tokenizing stable coins,

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<v Speaker 2>and much more. Plus we have some legislation like the

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<v Speaker 2>Genius Act. What is it like looking back and seeing the.

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<v Speaker 1>Growth it, you know it it felt really bleak for

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<v Speaker 1>a while there. And while there has been a tremendous

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<v Speaker 1>amount of progress in the last twelve months, uh you

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<v Speaker 1>clarity Genius Act, you know, and we're not We're not

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<v Speaker 1>through the woods on that. I not to take a

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<v Speaker 1>somewhat more parish view than many people, but like, there's

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<v Speaker 1>still a lot of work that needs to be done,

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<v Speaker 1>and we need to codify clarity, right because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>if you don't create laws that you know that and

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<v Speaker 1>rules to follow that are very clear, well then you're

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<v Speaker 1>just subject to the same kind of you know, regulatory

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<v Speaker 1>arbitrage that has existed historically. So that's something that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty five, we need to kind of close out.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of difficult right now with the government being

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<v Speaker 1>shut down. So those are things that i'm i'm i'm

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<v Speaker 1>looking at. And then what you're going to need to

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<v Speaker 1>have some sort of harmonization of regulatory rule making around

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<v Speaker 1>the globe, right, and you've seen a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>like kind of things to be excited about. The US

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<v Speaker 1>is working with the FC in London, which has always

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<v Speaker 1>been like a fairly difficult and slow moving regulator, to

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<v Speaker 1>maybe harmonize some of their rulemaking. But then you have

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<v Speaker 1>all these other money centers you're going to have. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>you have mic ou to for for broad EU, you

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<v Speaker 1>have you know, a lot of people going to UAE,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you have all the money centers you know

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<v Speaker 1>in in in the far East, right, so you have

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<v Speaker 1>like Singapore, Hong Kong, Soul, Tokyo. So there's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of things for global firms, particularly global banks, to make

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<v Speaker 1>sure that they, you know, that they are harmonizing the

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<v Speaker 1>rules so that they can run businesses globally and they

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<v Speaker 1>don't have to have a different set of rules and

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<v Speaker 1>a different set of groups and and and groups that

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<v Speaker 1>can't really function, you know, globally, because there's different rules

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<v Speaker 1>and reanks in each locale. So I think we've made

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of progress. I think institutions are very interested.

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<v Speaker 1>What we haven't solved for is kind of this, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>banks being able to be kind of prime brokers for

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<v Speaker 1>are for liquidity providers and market makers in the space.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, you know, the events from a couple of

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<v Speaker 1>weeks ago, that was the function of that. Like there's

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<v Speaker 1>just there isn't enough capital that's fungible and and where

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<v Speaker 1>you can arbitraze price differences and different platforms and in

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<v Speaker 1>different in different areas, so that stuff it still needs

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<v Speaker 1>to happen. But like from where we were twelve months ago, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's you know, we're white years, so that that part's good,

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<v Speaker 1>but we still have a lot of work to do.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a great point because I've been hearing some

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<v Speaker 2>folks are, for example, not happy with the EU and

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<v Speaker 2>the MECA regulations there and there's some departures. But then

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you have the United States getting ready to

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<v Speaker 2>pass the Clarity Act once the government opens up. But

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<v Speaker 2>to your point, how does this all mesh together? And

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<v Speaker 2>with these big jurisdictions. So, like you said, this is work.

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<v Speaker 1>To be done here. Correct, Yes, I agree.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, let's talk about Avalanche treasury. Cope, give us

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<v Speaker 2>the full rundown, the history, the mission, and much more so.

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<v Speaker 1>So in my previous firm, you know, we were we

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<v Speaker 1>were looking a lot of these digitalistic treasuries, and you

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<v Speaker 1>know there's there's some are good, some are you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're less attractive to us. We were very interested in

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<v Speaker 1>like different structures. Right, there's a lot of firms that

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<v Speaker 1>are just taking kind of an existing OpCo and they

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<v Speaker 1>just do a pipe into it. And you know, oftentimes

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<v Speaker 1>that company that's pivoting from a you know, a failed strategy,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it's you know, gaming or betting or like it's

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<v Speaker 1>like a hemp manufacturer. There's like, you know, there there

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<v Speaker 1>are you know, the different like medical failed companies, and

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<v Speaker 1>so in my opinion, those are more problematic, right, they

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<v Speaker 1>have they have historical problems you have to address. They're

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<v Speaker 1>operating companies, they're registered, they're regulated, so you have to

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<v Speaker 1>kind of continue to run these often failed businesses while

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<v Speaker 1>the primary business is completely unrelated. And like to me,

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<v Speaker 1>that was always kind of difficult. And so when the

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<v Speaker 1>concept of an Avalanche digitized of treasury came along. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>people reach out to us because in the last round

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<v Speaker 1>of Avalanche raised money, we were one of the largest

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<v Speaker 1>participants in that race. So there, you know, people knew

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<v Speaker 1>that that we were constructive on Avalanche, and I was

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<v Speaker 1>personally constructive. And then as you know, it was kind

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<v Speaker 1>of in the early stage of thinking about what that

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<v Speaker 1>might look like. You know, I had some very strong

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<v Speaker 1>opinions about you know, what would lead to success and

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<v Speaker 1>what you know, the next generation of these debts are

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<v Speaker 1>going to look like. And the more that I was

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<v Speaker 1>thinking about it, the more I thought, you know, this

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<v Speaker 1>might be a unique opportunity to do something different. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, there's going to be a lot of these

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<v Speaker 1>digitalass of treasuries, and I think, just like in every

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<v Speaker 1>other part of the capital markets, you're going to have

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<v Speaker 1>winners and losers. And you know, if you built one

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<v Speaker 1>that was you know, purpose built to do uh to

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<v Speaker 1>provide you know, exposure to the avalanche ecosystem, but you

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<v Speaker 1>could go beyond, you know, what you might be able

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<v Speaker 1>to get by just owning the underlying spot commodity or

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<v Speaker 1>an ETF. Like I think there's a unique opportunities that

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<v Speaker 1>this type of structure provides. And so the more you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I thought about it, the more excited I got, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, ultimately I ended up here.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's going to be the question that folks have is, well,

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<v Speaker 2>why not Bitcoin, why not eat? Why not Salona? Why

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<v Speaker 2>avax or Avalanche?

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<v Speaker 1>So I do think that one of the benefits of

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<v Speaker 1>the regulatory clarity that we've had and the excitement they

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<v Speaker 1>have around it is that like, finally, institutions, governments, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>are going to be able to implement blockchain technology to

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<v Speaker 1>make their businesses better, right, and so at its core,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, blockchain technology is is software and so so

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<v Speaker 1>now if you say, okay, well how are businesses going

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<v Speaker 1>to implement blockchain technology? I do feel like Avalanche has

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<v Speaker 1>a very strategic advantage in like a kind of government

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<v Speaker 1>and business vertical that it's you know, it's not the

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<v Speaker 1>mag one, right, the mag seven. So like throughout the

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<v Speaker 1>last couple of decades, there have been many winners in

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<v Speaker 1>technology put through software. They had different approaches and so

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you had you know, telecom, you have Internet,

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<v Speaker 1>you have SaaS, you had all these different areas. You

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<v Speaker 1>could have a winner or multiple winners. I think as

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<v Speaker 1>people look to implement blockchain technology into businesses, one of

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<v Speaker 1>the difficulties they have is that businesses don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>take their private information, all the customers private information, and

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<v Speaker 1>put it in a public blockchain. It's just like it's

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<v Speaker 1>not it's not it's not starter, right, So you know

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<v Speaker 1>what a lot of people have done is is maybe

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<v Speaker 1>looked at like ethereum and building you know, kind of

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<v Speaker 1>an L two. Like the unique structure of the Avalanche

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<v Speaker 1>chain is if they have this kind of three chain

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<v Speaker 1>approach and and one of them, the C chain, allows

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<v Speaker 1>people to build their own l ones kind of out

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<v Speaker 1>of the box in a way that's supported by this

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<v Speaker 1>broader network. And you know, you don't need to have

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<v Speaker 1>like an army of software developers to develop that. So

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<v Speaker 1>you see in companies like Robinhood or uh you know that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know Google, they're gonna build their own They're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>build their own change, which makes total sense because they

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<v Speaker 1>want to implement k y C and a m L.

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<v Speaker 1>They don't want to put their their customers you know,

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<v Speaker 1>private information on public lock chain. But most importantly, like

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<v Speaker 1>they want to own the entire financial stack, right like

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<v Speaker 1>they want to be able to customize it and so

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<v Speaker 1>but then at the end they want this kind of

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<v Speaker 1>base layer, you know security, and that's where you've seen

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<v Speaker 1>Ethereum have success. Right There's all these L two's that

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<v Speaker 1>are building on top of the Ethereum and they're basically

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<v Speaker 1>just paying for THEEUM level one, you know security. And

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<v Speaker 1>so for me just looking at all of the companies

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<v Speaker 1>that have already been building on Avalanche because they have

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<v Speaker 1>the capacity to customize an L one, but then you know,

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<v Speaker 1>into a the security of the Avalanche, which is also

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<v Speaker 1>EVM capatible, so you can you can connect out for

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of the world like KKR, Polo, Toyota, FIFA,

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<v Speaker 1>like big brand names are utilizing Avalanche today to build

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<v Speaker 1>for a myriad of reasons. Avalanche team has really built

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<v Speaker 1>in Japan and in Korea and other parts, Like they're

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<v Speaker 1>kind of market leaders in a lot of these spaces,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, I just don't think people really understand

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<v Speaker 1>how differentiated AVAX and Avalanche is. So like when I'm

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<v Speaker 1>looking at kind of an opportunity, you know, it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>you have all of this stuff here and really you

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<v Speaker 1>just need to be able to package it and market it.

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<v Speaker 1>In a way that people can understand the opportunity, and like,

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<v Speaker 1>what a better way to do that than to create

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<v Speaker 1>a regulated public company that's audited that you can go

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<v Speaker 1>out and basically reboot, you know, the marketing, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>in in partnership with all of people from the ecosystem

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<v Speaker 1>to kind of make people aware of like what's going

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<v Speaker 1>on in Avalanche and why they might want to own

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of exposure to the ecosystem in their

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<v Speaker 1>investment portfolio.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. And uh, obviously I'm an

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<v Speaker 2>AVAC tookenholders. I'm very much aware of all the adults.

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<v Speaker 1>But I don't mind the bias. I don't mind the bias.

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<v Speaker 1>It's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I wanted to make sure that question was

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<v Speaker 2>answered for people who don't hold avacs already, having they

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<v Speaker 2>don't know much about Avalanche. So I think it's important

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<v Speaker 2>to outline now which you did. So you know, you

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<v Speaker 2>mentioned that this this is not only about holding AVAX

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<v Speaker 2>but also participating in the ecosystem. Let's double click a

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<v Speaker 2>bit into that, like, how what are some of the

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<v Speaker 2>initiatives you'll be doing as far as supporting the ecosystem?

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<v Speaker 1>Right, so you know we're going to take a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of keys from the regulators. Right, So there's there's been

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<v Speaker 1>a wave of these dead Lasha treasuries and so we

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we're as we're going through our own s

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<v Speaker 1>four and we're our goal is in the first quarter

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty twenty six to successfully merge with Mountain Lake

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<v Speaker 1>Acquisition Corp. Will be a listed company. We are going

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<v Speaker 1>to There's a lot of things that we can do

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<v Speaker 1>and that I believe we're going to be able to do,

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<v Speaker 1>but we have to also just kind of go through

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<v Speaker 1>this process and make sure that that everything that we're

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<v Speaker 1>doing is aligned with the you know, the SEC and

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<v Speaker 1>other regulators. So I think that's an important point that

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<v Speaker 1>you know that we are going to continually evaluate that.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's putting that aside. There's a lot of things

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<v Speaker 1>that happen in an ecosystem that have value that doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>fully or a majority kind of a crewe down to

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<v Speaker 1>the token. So like so if you think about Ethereum, right,

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<v Speaker 1>which is you know, the largest non bitcoin blockchain, and

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<v Speaker 1>I always have kind of thought, like, you know, bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>is digital gold, right, it's over here, and there's a

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<v Speaker 1>world where people might build applications on bitcoin but it

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<v Speaker 1>feels like pretty far away from that. So excluding that

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<v Speaker 1>in Ethereum you've had, you know, it's the largest blockchain,

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<v Speaker 1>it's the oldest, and there are a lot of applications

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<v Speaker 1>that have built on top of Avalanche right Ave Right,

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<v Speaker 1>it's worth four billion dollars, it's seen one of the largest.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not the largest lending protocol you have like Uni

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<v Speaker 1>swap right, which is a trading platform decks that it's

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<v Speaker 1>on top of the built primarily on top of Ethereum.

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<v Speaker 1>That's worth a four million dollars. You know. A lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the value of those companies doesn't go down to

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<v Speaker 1>the Ethereum network. Some does, but like it wasn't as

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<v Speaker 1>if if you owned you know, Uni swap, or if

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<v Speaker 1>you owned ave, you know, you've got a different kind

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<v Speaker 1>of return than would trickle down to Ethereum. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>the the value of you know, fully diluted value of Ethereum,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, give or take, you know, rounding broadly, it

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<v Speaker 1>is probably like five hundred billion dollars. Right. A lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the excitement around Ethereum is stable coin usage, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and Tether's the bigges stable coin in the world. Teather's

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00:17:15.640 --> 00:17:18.599
<v Speaker 1>worth five hundred billion dollars, right, So like teather being

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00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:20.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, and and some of that crews down to

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<v Speaker 1>Tron because you know, there's a lot of tether on TRON,

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<v Speaker 1>So like some value accrue down to ethereum from tether,

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<v Speaker 1>but like how much you know, and like how much

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<v Speaker 1>accrued from AVE and how much accrued from uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>all of these other platforms out for the unisops of

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<v Speaker 1>the world. So like there's definitely a network effect that

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<v Speaker 1>will happen that will creue more value. So if you're

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<v Speaker 1>looking to get exposure to implementation and growth of the

348
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<v Speaker 1>avalanche ecosystem, you can own AVAX and like that should

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<v Speaker 1>work to some degree. But all of these l ones

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<v Speaker 1>that are being built on top of avalanche, where you

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<v Speaker 1>have these kind of private companies or governments or different

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<v Speaker 1>you know, uh kind of news, like builders that are

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<v Speaker 1>building applications on top of avalanche, some of that will

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<v Speaker 1>crew down because there will be a network effect. But

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<v Speaker 1>if you could get a little piece or you could

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<v Speaker 1>invest in, you know, some of those companies, that probably

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<v Speaker 1>gives you a much better exposure to the growth of

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<v Speaker 1>the ecosystem. So you know, we're going to own evacs,

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to stake it. You know historically, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>very conservatively, you know that's gotten you know, mid single

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<v Speaker 1>digits to like high single digit kind of yield returns

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<v Speaker 1>from from you know, taking the AVAX and using it

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<v Speaker 1>to secure the blockchain. So we can do that. There's

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<v Speaker 1>other things that we would love to be able to do.

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<v Speaker 1>Can we you know, buy a validator and run our

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<v Speaker 1>own notes and you know, could we lend our avax

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<v Speaker 1>to builders and applications and l ones that are building

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<v Speaker 1>on avalanche right, and can we work with them to

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<v Speaker 1>help them kind of with their staking, you know, with

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<v Speaker 1>their their the avax they need. Can we work with

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<v Speaker 1>them to make their businesses better? Can we do you know,

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<v Speaker 1>DeFi activities in the space. Can we there are derivatives obviously,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, coming from Susquehanna, like, there's a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>driven activity that you do with options and future strategies

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<v Speaker 1>that can generate diversified and maybe in some cases higher

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<v Speaker 1>levels of income. So what you end up getting is,

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00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:22.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, this this diversified pool of of exposures that

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00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:27.519
<v Speaker 1>should do better. If the ecosystem does really well, then

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<v Speaker 1>if you just owned the token seuth so like you

380
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<v Speaker 1>know that that that is the thesis that we're going after, sure,

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<v Speaker 1>is that we can provide a much better kind of

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<v Speaker 1>holistic exposure for value accrual for uh for individuals in

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<v Speaker 1>a way that is the access they want, right Like

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<v Speaker 1>many you know, many high net worth individuals and institutions

385
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<v Speaker 1>like they just they're either can't or do not want

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<v Speaker 1>to buy you know, spot commodities, digitaliztic commodities on unregulated exchanges.

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<v Speaker 1>That's it's not how they want to interact. So if

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<v Speaker 1>I can create you know, a public company where people

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<v Speaker 1>can invest through convertible bonds or through preferreds or through

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00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:11.200
<v Speaker 1>straight equity, and they can hold it in the brokerage

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00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:13.000
<v Speaker 1>account and they can they can invest in it just

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<v Speaker 1>like they invest in everything else. And then you have

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<v Speaker 1>this exposure where we can take you know, that capital

394
00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:21.200
<v Speaker 1>and then we can put that into the enterprise that

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<v Speaker 1>is avalanche and you know, you would imagine that that

396
00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:29.000
<v Speaker 1>that capital coming in should provide you know more you know, uh,

397
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<v Speaker 1>you know, gas for the fire, so to speak. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>You're gonna you're gonna help to like to to implement

399
00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:38.119
<v Speaker 1>more capital into the ecosystem, which should you know, you

400
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<v Speaker 1>would hope help the ecosystem grow. So that's kind of

401
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:42.880
<v Speaker 1>like the dual nature, right, So like you you allow

402
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<v Speaker 1>regulated exposure for people in the way that they want

403
00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:47.799
<v Speaker 1>to invest, and then you take that capital and you

404
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.640
<v Speaker 1>invest it into the ecosystem, which you would hope benefits

405
00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:53.599
<v Speaker 1>the growth and is mutually beneficial for for for the whole,

406
00:20:53.920 --> 00:20:56.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, for both parties. So that that's the concept

407
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<v Speaker 1>as I think about it.

408
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<v Speaker 2>And then for this thinking rewards and the DeFi yield

409
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:04.400
<v Speaker 2>and so forth, will that be potentially paid out in

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00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:06.480
<v Speaker 2>dividends or reinvested.

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<v Speaker 1>Again we you know, we haven't gotten that far in

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00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:11.079
<v Speaker 1>the strategy. And mean I would think I think that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, dividends and paying out dividends is something that

414
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:17.599
<v Speaker 1>you know companies do when they're kind of in a

415
00:21:17.720 --> 00:21:20.279
<v Speaker 1>later stage of growth. Right. So like typically when you

416
00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:23.079
<v Speaker 1>have kind of you know, growth companies, particularly like you

417
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.480
<v Speaker 1>know high growth companies, like, the best use of that

418
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:28.759
<v Speaker 1>capital is to continue to reinvest it because your kind

419
00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:30.799
<v Speaker 1>of expected rate of returns are going to be higher.

420
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.599
<v Speaker 1>So I would my guess is that the best use

421
00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.880
<v Speaker 1>of you know, whatever capital we have would be to

422
00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.680
<v Speaker 1>continue to try to find the best returns. But like, sure,

423
00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:43.359
<v Speaker 1>if it you know, if there are certain situations where

424
00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:45.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, it would make sense to pay a dividend

425
00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:47.880
<v Speaker 1>or a special dividend. But yeah, I think you know,

426
00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:50.680
<v Speaker 1>right now, we're, like I said before, we're going to

427
00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:52.920
<v Speaker 1>kind of take the cues from the SEC and make

428
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.759
<v Speaker 1>sure that we you know, we're disclosing risks and we're

429
00:21:55.839 --> 00:21:58.000
<v Speaker 1>and we're setting this up in a way that is compliant.

430
00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:02.839
<v Speaker 1>And then yeah, well as a lot of just Trypto

431
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:07.160
<v Speaker 1>in general is like not being overly prescriptive and and

432
00:22:07.319 --> 00:22:09.039
<v Speaker 1>just kind of taking what the market gives you. And

433
00:22:09.160 --> 00:22:12.240
<v Speaker 1>so you know, we're gonna we're you know, Lane Littman

434
00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:14.559
<v Speaker 1>is my CEO, who he was the president Hidden Road

435
00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:17.519
<v Speaker 1>and and spent many years you know, working at ad

436
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Vertue and and and you know Coleman and but banks,

437
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:22.720
<v Speaker 1>like we've seen a lot of iterations of this, and

438
00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:24.799
<v Speaker 1>so you know what we're gonna do is we have

439
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:27.799
<v Speaker 1>a strategy. We're going to communicate, you know, owning and

440
00:22:27.880 --> 00:22:30.240
<v Speaker 1>staking Avax is going to be a very large portion

441
00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:32.240
<v Speaker 1>of it. And then to the extent that we can

442
00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:36.759
<v Speaker 1>have other additive sleeves of our strategy that are smaller,

443
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:40.799
<v Speaker 1>but we we believe would offer a diversified, better exposure

444
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:45.039
<v Speaker 1>and you know, hopefully provide kind of risk adjusted you know,

445
00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.920
<v Speaker 1>good rates of returns for investors. Like that's that's the plan,

446
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:50.359
<v Speaker 1>oh for sure.

447
00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:52.720
<v Speaker 2>And as far as your au M, I read that,

448
00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:56.480
<v Speaker 2>uh looking to buy a billion dollars of AVAX tokens,

449
00:22:56.559 --> 00:22:56.920
<v Speaker 2>Is that right?

450
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:01.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean yeah, Ultimately, you know, we have we close

451
00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:04.519
<v Speaker 1>a private placement and then we have this you know,

452
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:08.799
<v Speaker 1>pending business combination with Mountain Lake ac Position Corp. You know,

453
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:12.200
<v Speaker 1>at that point, depending what the market does, that that's

454
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.200
<v Speaker 1>going to be somewhere in the mid hundreds of millions,

455
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:19.680
<v Speaker 1>if not higher. But yes, the idea is to as

456
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:25.240
<v Speaker 1>the as avalanche continues to grow, is to continue to

457
00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:28.440
<v Speaker 1>try to seek out capital again in ways that people

458
00:23:28.519 --> 00:23:31.799
<v Speaker 1>want to invest in the market, to help inject more

459
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.720
<v Speaker 1>capital into the space. The thing that's interesting to me

460
00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:38.599
<v Speaker 1>is that and you know if over time, you know,

461
00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:40.880
<v Speaker 1>sometimes you'll hear me save this over and over like

462
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:43.960
<v Speaker 1>every other industry was allowed to grow this way, you know,

463
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:49.559
<v Speaker 1>software SaaS, you know, telecom, the Internet, and that you

464
00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:52.680
<v Speaker 1>created a public company and you wrote you raised money

465
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:55.599
<v Speaker 1>through debt or through converts or through equity, and you

466
00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:58.000
<v Speaker 1>took that money and invest in the enterprise. The enterprise

467
00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:01.440
<v Speaker 1>did well, bondholders and equi holders did well, and this

468
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:04.480
<v Speaker 1>industry was specifically not allowed to do that. And so

469
00:24:05.640 --> 00:24:10.359
<v Speaker 1>this digitalized a treasury structure allows for that to happen. Right,

470
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.160
<v Speaker 1>you can go, you have a public company and you

471
00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:14.960
<v Speaker 1>can raise money in you know, in the public markets

472
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:17.240
<v Speaker 1>in a variety of ways, and that could be issuing equities,

473
00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:19.519
<v Speaker 1>but that you know, there's other things that you can

474
00:24:19.599 --> 00:24:22.759
<v Speaker 1>do that might be attractive to both a different type

475
00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.799
<v Speaker 1>of investor and we might be more attractive in trying

476
00:24:25.880 --> 00:24:29.680
<v Speaker 1>to generate more AVAX per share for our shareholders. And

477
00:24:29.799 --> 00:24:32.759
<v Speaker 1>so that to me is what I find most exciting

478
00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:37.279
<v Speaker 1>about this structure. And then obviously because you know it's

479
00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:39.880
<v Speaker 1>not a mutual fund or an ETF, like, you don't

480
00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:44.039
<v Speaker 1>have to prepare yourself for the possibility of deploying money

481
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:46.480
<v Speaker 1>on any given day that you weren't prepared for or

482
00:24:46.519 --> 00:24:48.880
<v Speaker 1>having to redeem money. Right, so if you if you're

483
00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:51.599
<v Speaker 1>open to a mutual fund redemption or an ETF redemption

484
00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.559
<v Speaker 1>and having get any given day, that's very limiting in

485
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.000
<v Speaker 1>what you can do to provide exposure to you know,

486
00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:02.480
<v Speaker 1>your yes, because in theory, you know you hope this

487
00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:05.880
<v Speaker 1>doesn't happen, but on some given day, everybody could come

488
00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.079
<v Speaker 1>and rush to want a redeem and so you need

489
00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:12.440
<v Speaker 1>to be able to meet those redemptions. And that is

490
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:16.240
<v Speaker 1>very limiting in what you can do to try to

491
00:25:16.359 --> 00:25:20.480
<v Speaker 1>maximize a longer term strategy. So yeah, I think I

492
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:23.480
<v Speaker 1>think that's the I think that in the evolution of

493
00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:26.440
<v Speaker 1>kind of these digitous of treasuries, I think that's the

494
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.039
<v Speaker 1>most compelling argument that people will come to realize with like,

495
00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:32.880
<v Speaker 1>this is just a better structure to invest in an

496
00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:35.359
<v Speaker 1>early what is still, in my opinion, a very early

497
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:36.880
<v Speaker 1>emerging technology.

498
00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:41.200
<v Speaker 2>So on that note of being an early emerging technology,

499
00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:44.440
<v Speaker 2>I wanted to get your take on this trend and

500
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.480
<v Speaker 2>how long you think it lasts. You know, where this

501
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:50.640
<v Speaker 2>asset class grows and there's maybe less volatility, but there

502
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:53.480
<v Speaker 2>is this staking and the you know, DeFi component where

503
00:25:53.480 --> 00:25:55.240
<v Speaker 2>you can do a lot more with the asset right.

504
00:25:56.839 --> 00:25:58.799
<v Speaker 2>But you know, let's say a bear market or a

505
00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:02.359
<v Speaker 2>market downturn rolls around. How are you preparing for that?

506
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.680
<v Speaker 2>And do you see other dats failing you know, maybe

507
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:07.200
<v Speaker 2>some consolidation and things like that.

508
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I can't speak to how other people

509
00:26:09.680 --> 00:26:12.119
<v Speaker 1>are thinking about it. But like the thing that I

510
00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:15.400
<v Speaker 1>found most surprising about that, you know, that sell off

511
00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:17.039
<v Speaker 1>you know whatever at this point, it was like three

512
00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:20.680
<v Speaker 1>Fridays ago. Was how surprised that people were right? Like,

513
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:25.160
<v Speaker 1>it's like these asset classes are very volatile because their

514
00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:29.079
<v Speaker 1>early stage, all good new ideas are volatile, right, and

515
00:26:29.279 --> 00:26:32.279
<v Speaker 1>so you know, you have to have the expectation that

516
00:26:32.839 --> 00:26:37.759
<v Speaker 1>that you know, when volatility or when you know, a

517
00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:40.440
<v Speaker 1>sell off happens, like you need to be prepared that

518
00:26:41.079 --> 00:26:43.480
<v Speaker 1>that could be, you know, a pretty meaningful sell off

519
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:46.680
<v Speaker 1>and it could last for a long time. My first

520
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:51.039
<v Speaker 1>job out of college, I worked at Payne Weberg, which

521
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:53.920
<v Speaker 1>was later acquired by UBS. And you know, the market

522
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.200
<v Speaker 1>was at the very end of the like the internet

523
00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:58.839
<v Speaker 1>dot com bubble, and so for the first like four

524
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:00.960
<v Speaker 1>or five six months i work there, the market just

525
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:03.880
<v Speaker 1>went up, right, and then it went down for three years,

526
00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:06.559
<v Speaker 1>so you know, two thousand and two thousand and one,

527
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:08.599
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and two, all negative years de s and P.

528
00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:11.599
<v Speaker 1>Five hundred. So that was like a very formulative experience

529
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:13.880
<v Speaker 1>for me. So like you have to you know, we're

530
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:17.000
<v Speaker 1>thinking about these this vehicle as a long term vehicle,

531
00:27:17.359 --> 00:27:20.039
<v Speaker 1>but like it's the idea here is not to try

532
00:27:20.119 --> 00:27:23.519
<v Speaker 1>to take incremental risk that is unwarranted. The idea is

533
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:26.640
<v Speaker 1>to take a long term approach that is prudent, that

534
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:29.799
<v Speaker 1>provides kind of the best exposure you can for your shareholders.

535
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.920
<v Speaker 1>And so as we're thinking about in this, you know,

536
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:36.000
<v Speaker 1>this strategy going forward, you always in the back of

537
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:38.799
<v Speaker 1>your mind have to keep thinking like, well, you know,

538
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:42.440
<v Speaker 1>like if you have this massive people are coming into

539
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:44.839
<v Speaker 1>the space because they think they have a one, two, three,

540
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.240
<v Speaker 1>five X. You know, I don't have any forecasts of

541
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:50.200
<v Speaker 1>of you know, where the market capitalization is going to go.

542
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:52.160
<v Speaker 1>But it's like it's you know, if you're buying this

543
00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:53.839
<v Speaker 1>is because you think that there's an opportunity for to

544
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:56.799
<v Speaker 1>go meaningfully higher like that. There's no free lunch, right

545
00:27:56.960 --> 00:27:59.640
<v Speaker 1>like that that's going to come with periods of doubt

546
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:02.759
<v Speaker 1>and periods of fear, and that's when you're gonna have

547
00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:04.839
<v Speaker 1>you know, market selloffs and the and the best thing

548
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.680
<v Speaker 1>that you can do is to position yourself to benefit

549
00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:10.759
<v Speaker 1>from those moments and not to be the person who's

550
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:13.880
<v Speaker 1>being harmed by those moments. So, you know, I think

551
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.400
<v Speaker 1>that that will be a key component of of how

552
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:19.240
<v Speaker 1>we think about it. And then yeah, you have like

553
00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:21.279
<v Speaker 1>you said, there's there's all of these digitals of treasuries

554
00:28:21.319 --> 00:28:23.880
<v Speaker 1>out there. They're gonna have to distinguish themselves, right, They're

555
00:28:23.880 --> 00:28:26.200
<v Speaker 1>gonna have to. They're gonna have to you know, they're

556
00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:28.880
<v Speaker 1>gonna have to capture mind share from people, and they're

557
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:32.160
<v Speaker 1>gonna have to be able to communicate like an effective

558
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:35.119
<v Speaker 1>strategy and and then deliver on that. So like the

559
00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:38.920
<v Speaker 1>capital markets, if nothing, are very efficient and so over time,

560
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:41.799
<v Speaker 1>I think you will see kind of winners and losers

561
00:28:41.920 --> 00:28:46.240
<v Speaker 1>that that that kind of show up, you know, over time.

562
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:49.160
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I think that that we're excited about

563
00:28:49.519 --> 00:28:51.599
<v Speaker 1>our ability to to to navigate that.

564
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah for sure. And uh, I'm just curious to see

565
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:57.519
<v Speaker 2>how things play out. And and uh I believe in

566
00:28:57.599 --> 00:29:00.160
<v Speaker 2>the digital asterid treasuries of course, and I think it's

567
00:29:01.000 --> 00:29:04.799
<v Speaker 2>a great approach, great a hybrid approach of crypto and

568
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:07.920
<v Speaker 2>the trad fire world and you know, allowing folks to

569
00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:10.599
<v Speaker 2>get exposure. But you know, I guess, as with all

570
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:12.759
<v Speaker 2>things in the free market, you're going to have companies

571
00:29:12.839 --> 00:29:14.880
<v Speaker 2>that are well run and some that are poorly run.

572
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:17.400
<v Speaker 2>And uh, you know, the tips are going to fall

573
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:19.519
<v Speaker 2>with a fall in the volatility hits or at the

574
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:21.680
<v Speaker 2>bear market, so we'll have to wait and see.

575
00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:23.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, I think that was part of the

576
00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:26.160
<v Speaker 1>reason why we went the route we did, which is

577
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:29.920
<v Speaker 1>to kind of set up a purpose built company from scratch.

578
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.920
<v Speaker 1>Right so you know, when when you when you you know,

579
00:29:33.000 --> 00:29:35.359
<v Speaker 1>when you look at the company, it's called the Avalanche

580
00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:38.319
<v Speaker 1>Treasury Company, right, Like, there is no doubt in kind

581
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.519
<v Speaker 1>of what we're doing. Our sole focus is going to

582
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:45.240
<v Speaker 1>be on delivering kind of value to customers and in

583
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:47.880
<v Speaker 1>shareholders in a in a in a way that that

584
00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:52.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, we feel like can better represent the growth

585
00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:55.720
<v Speaker 1>of the ecosystem. And and yeah, and I think that

586
00:29:55.839 --> 00:29:58.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, we we like there's gonna It's not like

587
00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:02.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm not worried about well, you know, an alternative investment

588
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:06.119
<v Speaker 1>per se. It's just like there's a whole world of investments.

589
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:08.680
<v Speaker 1>Like they don't need to own crypto at all, right,

590
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:12.400
<v Speaker 1>they don't need to own blockchain technology. So can we

591
00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:17.680
<v Speaker 1>effectively communicate a value proposition of owning you know, this

592
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:20.720
<v Speaker 1>asset versus any other asset? And now, and I think

593
00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:24.359
<v Speaker 1>if you're listed, you know, on a public stock exchange

594
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:27.759
<v Speaker 1>in the US, you are now competing against basically every

595
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:30.799
<v Speaker 1>asset in the world. And so I think that that's

596
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:33.640
<v Speaker 1>what we're focused on, is providing you know, a structure

597
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:38.079
<v Speaker 1>and a company and an exposure that people are interested in,

598
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:40.960
<v Speaker 1>and then being able to communicate that effectively. Yeah.

599
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:45.359
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, And then on the communication of communicating that effectively.

600
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:47.519
<v Speaker 2>You know, you have ETFs out there, right, there's going

601
00:30:47.559 --> 00:30:50.400
<v Speaker 2>to be a vx boty tfs and so forth. So

602
00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:53.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm curious, you know, how would you'll be what would

603
00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:57.000
<v Speaker 2>be your elevator pitch to say, hey, this data is

604
00:30:57.079 --> 00:30:59.160
<v Speaker 2>better than just buying an ETF.

605
00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:02.599
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know what's funny is that, you know, treasuries

606
00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:06.240
<v Speaker 1>as like every kind of uh, you know, anytime there's

607
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:09.160
<v Speaker 1>like a new vehicle or something that's in favor, you know,

608
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:11.839
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot of criticism that comes with that. Back

609
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:13.640
<v Speaker 1>in like the two thousand and eight time frame, two

610
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:15.279
<v Speaker 1>thousand and seven, two thousand and eight, there was a

611
00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:18.720
<v Speaker 1>ton of criticism about ETFs. The ETFs provided like a

612
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.480
<v Speaker 1>systematic risk and that the creation redemption, uh, you know,

613
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:27.759
<v Speaker 1>mechanism was going to fail under a massive amount of

614
00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:31.759
<v Speaker 1>like market drests, and that you know that that ETFs

615
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:36.200
<v Speaker 1>were creating it impossible for small and mid capitalization companies

616
00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:39.200
<v Speaker 1>to seek capital that can differentiate because people were just

617
00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:40.920
<v Speaker 1>buying the index. And there's just like there was a

618
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:43.880
<v Speaker 1>lot of fun around ETFs and how was it was

619
00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:47.559
<v Speaker 1>a you know, this like this really risky, dangerous, unproven

620
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.480
<v Speaker 1>structure and then here we are, you know, fast forward

621
00:31:51.480 --> 00:31:53.279
<v Speaker 1>to twenty twenty five and people are saying, oh, these

622
00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:56.720
<v Speaker 1>digitalts of treasuries, you know, have all of these shortcomings.

623
00:31:56.839 --> 00:31:58.920
<v Speaker 1>You should have been putting it into a ETF, right,

624
00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:01.160
<v Speaker 1>And so it's just funny how like things evolve over

625
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:05.400
<v Speaker 1>time as people become familiar with structures. And ETF is

626
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:07.880
<v Speaker 1>not good or bad. It is just a rapper, right,

627
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:10.000
<v Speaker 1>It just it's a function of what you put in it,

628
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:12.839
<v Speaker 1>and the same way a dies US treasury is not

629
00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:14.559
<v Speaker 1>good or bad. It's just a function of like what

630
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:17.400
<v Speaker 1>is in it and what do you do with that capital.

631
00:32:18.319 --> 00:32:22.640
<v Speaker 1>ETFs are like one of the most democratizing you know

632
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:25.759
<v Speaker 1>structures that have in financial services has ever created. Right,

633
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:28.000
<v Speaker 1>It Like it allowed people to get exposure to gold

634
00:32:28.920 --> 00:32:31.720
<v Speaker 1>and to a whole host of things that in average

635
00:32:32.119 --> 00:32:35.279
<v Speaker 1>small you know, institution or high not worth investor didn't

636
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.559
<v Speaker 1>have access to and so if people want to use

637
00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:41.680
<v Speaker 1>ETF to get exposure to avax or any other crypto like,

638
00:32:41.960 --> 00:32:44.480
<v Speaker 1>that is net positive and I'm very supportive of that.

639
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:47.799
<v Speaker 1>I would argue to the points I made earlier that

640
00:32:48.079 --> 00:32:51.839
<v Speaker 1>just owning the avax token itself and then staking that

641
00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:54.160
<v Speaker 1>for whatever amount that they're going to be able to stake,

642
00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:55.920
<v Speaker 1>given the fact that they're going to have to respond

643
00:32:56.000 --> 00:33:01.160
<v Speaker 1>to to you know, daily creation redemn requests, and then

644
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:03.640
<v Speaker 1>the ability to trade that asset and keep that in

645
00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:07.400
<v Speaker 1>line you every day in the marketplace, like it could

646
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.119
<v Speaker 1>be an expensive proposition. I think by and large, market

647
00:33:10.200 --> 00:33:13.440
<v Speaker 1>makers in the competitive marketplace will figure it out. But

648
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:16.799
<v Speaker 1>it's not totally clear to me how efficient a vehicle

649
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:20.680
<v Speaker 1>you're going to have for uh, you know, avax or

650
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.839
<v Speaker 1>some of the other tokens that aren't Bitcoin and aren't

651
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:27.640
<v Speaker 1>ethereum right, And so to me, I think that there's

652
00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:31.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, we've seen these digitalish treasury structures over you know,

653
00:33:31.640 --> 00:33:33.640
<v Speaker 1>the last couple of years, and so there's like I

654
00:33:33.720 --> 00:33:37.279
<v Speaker 1>think in my mind, there's probably more certainty in my

655
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:39.960
<v Speaker 1>in my from my position of of what, you know,

656
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:42.440
<v Speaker 1>what that looks like day to day, and less so

657
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:44.960
<v Speaker 1>in all of these new ETFs that are coming out,

658
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:47.759
<v Speaker 1>like managing that asset day to day and having market

659
00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:50.480
<v Speaker 1>makers keep that price in line with Spot like could

660
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:52.759
<v Speaker 1>be problematic. And and then again you're just kind of

661
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:56.599
<v Speaker 1>because you have to have daily redemption and creation requests, like,

662
00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:58.759
<v Speaker 1>you're just going to be very limited as owning the

663
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:02.400
<v Speaker 1>spot market. And so our hope is that for people

664
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:04.480
<v Speaker 1>who would like to get you know, a differ, a

665
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:08.719
<v Speaker 1>different exposure and maybe something that I would think would

666
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:12.239
<v Speaker 1>be hopefully more of a true exposure of the growth

667
00:34:12.280 --> 00:34:14.480
<v Speaker 1>of the ecosystem. I think you put those two things

668
00:34:14.599 --> 00:34:17.119
<v Speaker 1>side by side, and I feel very good about the

669
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:20.519
<v Speaker 1>value proposition that that we put forth. And and for

670
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:24.599
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people that might just seem too complicated

671
00:34:24.679 --> 00:34:26.760
<v Speaker 1>and that can buy the ETF and that's fine, right,

672
00:34:26.920 --> 00:34:29.440
<v Speaker 1>you know. I I don't know over time if that

673
00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:32.119
<v Speaker 1>will get them what they're looking for, but I certainly

674
00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:33.960
<v Speaker 1>understand why people would want to own it, and people

675
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:36.960
<v Speaker 1>in general buying a BAX is good for the ecosystem,

676
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:39.199
<v Speaker 1>and you know, we're obviously very supportive of it. So

677
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:41.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, like I'm you know, I spend a lot

678
00:34:41.480 --> 00:34:44.400
<v Speaker 1>of time in that industry, you know, and I like

679
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:47.639
<v Speaker 1>you know, a lot of my friends are still working

680
00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:50.280
<v Speaker 1>at you know, all of these firms. Bit Wise are

681
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:53.599
<v Speaker 1>three guys that I've known for you know, over a decade,

682
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:55.840
<v Speaker 1>if not longer, And so they're gonna bit Wise is

683
00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.039
<v Speaker 1>going to launch an avax ETF And if you want

684
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:00.239
<v Speaker 1>to buy an a bax ETF, you should the bit

685
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:02.280
<v Speaker 1>wise etah for any of these other companies that are

686
00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:05.880
<v Speaker 1>listing them. So yeah, I think I think we're We're focused,

687
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.639
<v Speaker 1>like I said, on putting our strategy together and putting

688
00:35:09.719 --> 00:35:11.880
<v Speaker 1>forth the best strategy we can and then making sure

689
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:13.960
<v Speaker 1>we're doing it in a prudent way gives people the

690
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:16.719
<v Speaker 1>best exposure. And you know, there's gonna be a lot

691
00:35:16.800 --> 00:35:20.840
<v Speaker 1>of other investment opportunities beyond crypto that we're also competing

692
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:23.639
<v Speaker 1>for mind share. And so I'm in reality, I'm probably

693
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:27.480
<v Speaker 1>more thoughtful about how do we distinguish the opportunity versus

694
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:32.000
<v Speaker 1>like the field versus you know, a comparable passive exposure

695
00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:35.360
<v Speaker 1>or you know, owning spot on you know, coinbase or

696
00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:36.519
<v Speaker 1>robin Hood or something like that.

697
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:39.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that definitely makes sense. I'm curious. You probably

698
00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:43.599
<v Speaker 2>can't talk about it. You mentioned go other investments. I'm

699
00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:45.679
<v Speaker 2>assuming that's under wraps right now.

700
00:35:46.360 --> 00:35:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Right yeah. I mean again, we're like we're still going

701
00:35:49.840 --> 00:35:53.039
<v Speaker 1>through kind of the registration process, and so you know,

702
00:35:53.159 --> 00:35:57.719
<v Speaker 1>we will be in communication with with the regulators about

703
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:02.159
<v Speaker 1>you know what what we'd be interested to do. You know.

704
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:05.079
<v Speaker 1>The the the wonderful thing about the SEC and EDGAR

705
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:07.920
<v Speaker 1>is all these filings are public, so you know, we

706
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:10.360
<v Speaker 1>also get the benefit of people who started before us,

707
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:14.000
<v Speaker 1>and so you know, every time you know there's another filing,

708
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:18.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, an updated regulatory uh kind of response to

709
00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:20.840
<v Speaker 1>another one of the digitalist of treasuries, it's just an

710
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:23.079
<v Speaker 1>opportunity for us to kind of clean you know, what

711
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.280
<v Speaker 1>is you know, what is in the gray area and

712
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:28.519
<v Speaker 1>what is not and then you know, like I said,

713
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:31.199
<v Speaker 1>like we're going to take a very conservative approach towards

714
00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:33.280
<v Speaker 1>regulatory and legal compliance and we're not gonna go anywhere

715
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:38.199
<v Speaker 1>near gray areas. I feel pretty confident that the the

716
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:40.800
<v Speaker 1>from from what I'm seeing in the market to date,

717
00:36:41.199 --> 00:36:46.000
<v Speaker 1>like the these structures will be won't be very limited.

718
00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:47.840
<v Speaker 1>You know that they that that you know, as long

719
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:51.079
<v Speaker 1>as you're disclosing and you are doing all the things

720
00:36:51.079 --> 00:36:53.239
<v Speaker 1>that you're supposed to be doing, you know, from from

721
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:56.559
<v Speaker 1>that perspective that you should have a you know, the

722
00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:00.480
<v Speaker 1>ability to do whatevery other corporate treasury in America has

723
00:37:00.480 --> 00:37:02.719
<v Speaker 1>been able to do. And I think sometimes people act

724
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:06.440
<v Speaker 1>like these are new vehicles, right Like Berkshire Hathaway and

725
00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:10.079
<v Speaker 1>Apple and Microsoft are like the largest corporate treasuries in

726
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:13.599
<v Speaker 1>the world. They just have this massive operating business alongside

727
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:16.000
<v Speaker 1>of it. But Berkshire Hathway doesn't. Berksure Hathaway just buys

728
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.639
<v Speaker 1>companies and they invest in other companies and then they

729
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:20.519
<v Speaker 1>have this huge pile of cast they use. So like

730
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:25.519
<v Speaker 1>the concept of a corporate treasury and corporate treasury management

731
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:29.480
<v Speaker 1>is not new, It's just it was taken and kind

732
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:33.159
<v Speaker 1>of implemented by Michael Sailor and micro strategies, and the

733
00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:37.400
<v Speaker 1>benefits from being able to use that capital structure to

734
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:41.000
<v Speaker 1>invest with a whole slew of people who today have

735
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:44.280
<v Speaker 1>not been able to access you know, this asset class

736
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.480
<v Speaker 1>the way that they wanted to. And I think everyone said, wow,

737
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:50.800
<v Speaker 1>that's that's actually that's a great evolution of something that

738
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.639
<v Speaker 1>already existed. I would like to apply that to this

739
00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:56.119
<v Speaker 1>ecosystem and see if I can provide, you know, a

740
00:37:56.199 --> 00:37:59.599
<v Speaker 1>better you know return or a better exposure for investors,

741
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:01.440
<v Speaker 1>and so that's that's kind of how you know, we

742
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:02.400
<v Speaker 1>ended up here today.

743
00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Byway, that's a great example that you gave with Berkshire,

744
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:10.079
<v Speaker 2>Hathaway and Apple because of to your point of their

745
00:38:10.199 --> 00:38:13.360
<v Speaker 2>corporate treasury, right, it's loads of cash they're sitting on.

746
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:18.119
<v Speaker 2>So's that's a great, great example in regards to your

747
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:22.199
<v Speaker 2>timeline and roadmap, what are you expecting for the remainder

748
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:24.440
<v Speaker 2>at the end of this year excuse me, and going

749
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:25.400
<v Speaker 2>into twenty twenty six.

750
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.000
<v Speaker 1>So the next step for us is obviously to you know,

751
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:34.880
<v Speaker 1>our registration in this business combination with with m LAC

752
00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:38.639
<v Speaker 1>that we are you know, we're working through and the

753
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:42.360
<v Speaker 1>hope is that that would be you know effective or

754
00:38:42.440 --> 00:38:45.719
<v Speaker 1>closed in the first quarter of twenty twenty six. We

755
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:48.320
<v Speaker 1>absously need the government to open for that to happen,

756
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:51.800
<v Speaker 1>and so you know, I don't expect at this point

757
00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.639
<v Speaker 1>in time to have to adjust that that timeline. But

758
00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.039
<v Speaker 1>we're you know, we are subject to you know, the

759
00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:02.800
<v Speaker 1>things that are out of our control. And so once

760
00:39:02.960 --> 00:39:06.320
<v Speaker 1>that that, you know, once that business combination, uh, you know,

761
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:09.760
<v Speaker 1>hopefully gets approved and closes, and then you know, then

762
00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:13.360
<v Speaker 1>it's it's you know, the strategy will go from there.

763
00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:15.440
<v Speaker 1>And at that point we had, like I said, this

764
00:39:15.519 --> 00:39:20.199
<v Speaker 1>permanent capital vehicle where you know, our investment timeframe is

765
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:24.239
<v Speaker 1>just way longer, right, and so you know we're looking

766
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:27.440
<v Speaker 1>at you know, the opportunities that are in there that

767
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:31.000
<v Speaker 1>could supplement just owning AVAX and staking it, which again

768
00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:34.159
<v Speaker 1>is going to be you know, a large portion of

769
00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:35.519
<v Speaker 1>what we're doing. I just want to you know, I

770
00:39:35.559 --> 00:39:37.000
<v Speaker 1>don't want to think that this is going to be

771
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:39.760
<v Speaker 1>like you know, a venture funt right. You know that

772
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:41.880
<v Speaker 1>this the idea is to have that at its core,

773
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, is trying to return more avacx per share

774
00:39:46.159 --> 00:39:48.760
<v Speaker 1>for you know, our shareholders. And then if we could

775
00:39:48.800 --> 00:39:53.599
<v Speaker 1>have sleeves that are diversifying or a creative or provide

776
00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:56.639
<v Speaker 1>different exposures, you know that I think that is going

777
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:59.480
<v Speaker 1>to be the differentiator. So you know, I would I

778
00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:01.280
<v Speaker 1>look at it kind of in a two step process,

779
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:04.320
<v Speaker 1>like we need to meet the obligations of of our

780
00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:07.119
<v Speaker 1>regulator and and and hopefully have this close you know,

781
00:40:07.320 --> 00:40:10.679
<v Speaker 1>that requires the government to reopen and then and then

782
00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:13.159
<v Speaker 1>beyond that, I think then you know, then we're taking

783
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:15.159
<v Speaker 1>this kind of longer view, Okay, Okay, how do we

784
00:40:15.559 --> 00:40:19.880
<v Speaker 1>how do we represent the opportunity set? Uh, you know

785
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:23.119
<v Speaker 1>that that this ecosystem provives, you know, in this vehicle.

786
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.639
<v Speaker 2>Something came to mind as you were talking about you're

787
00:40:26.679 --> 00:40:31.559
<v Speaker 2>making those statements. We've seen a massive race kicking off

788
00:40:31.639 --> 00:40:34.000
<v Speaker 2>with the tokenization market where a lot of firm looking

789
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:36.519
<v Speaker 2>to put stocks and different assets, money market funds and

790
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:39.880
<v Speaker 2>so forth on the blockchain. Would you look to explore

791
00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:44.880
<v Speaker 2>investing in assets that are tokenized on the Avalanche blockchain potentially?

792
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Again, that's that's something that's been you know, a

793
00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:53.599
<v Speaker 1>big point of discussion over recent weeks and months, particularly

794
00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:55.559
<v Speaker 1>as you know in the digital ass of treasury world.

795
00:40:56.760 --> 00:40:59.159
<v Speaker 1>You know, I think that there is a lot of

796
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:01.719
<v Speaker 1>discussions about like, you know, what is security and what

797
00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:03.559
<v Speaker 1>is not a security? And so if you do it

798
00:41:03.639 --> 00:41:05.599
<v Speaker 1>on an L two is it is it actually security

799
00:41:05.639 --> 00:41:08.079
<v Speaker 1>because it's not really decentralized Versus if you do it,

800
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:10.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, in a broader ecosystem, you can you can

801
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:15.199
<v Speaker 1>demonstrate sufficient you know, decentralization and that would meet different

802
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:18.760
<v Speaker 1>rules for the SEC Like I think, I think tokenization

803
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:23.280
<v Speaker 1>is inevitable and so you know, having worked in traditional

804
00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:25.400
<v Speaker 1>finance for all you know the bulk of my career,

805
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:30.519
<v Speaker 1>Like even today it is it is insane to me

806
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:34.360
<v Speaker 1>how manual stock trading is right. And so, you know,

807
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:39.440
<v Speaker 1>I think that there are certain parts about you know, blockchain,

808
00:41:39.679 --> 00:41:44.039
<v Speaker 1>moving things on blockchains that requires like a very specific

809
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:47.639
<v Speaker 1>set of skills and make sure like you're very you're

810
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.280
<v Speaker 1>being very diligent at how you how you manage things

811
00:41:50.360 --> 00:41:53.679
<v Speaker 1>on chain, you know, because in in in you know,

812
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:56.039
<v Speaker 1>the trictional finance world, if you send Google to the

813
00:41:56.079 --> 00:41:59.760
<v Speaker 1>wrong you know, broker dealer, like you're getting that, you're

814
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:02.360
<v Speaker 1>that back, right, you know, like they will they will

815
00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:06.440
<v Speaker 1>reverse that back. And so the thing to me that

816
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:11.519
<v Speaker 1>is shocking is that how dated the infrastructure is in

817
00:42:11.800 --> 00:42:14.880
<v Speaker 1>in traditional equities, you know, globally, and like just how

818
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:18.800
<v Speaker 1>much inefficiency there is there. And so I think just

819
00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:23.320
<v Speaker 1>from like a basic like just modernization of the underlying

820
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:28.440
<v Speaker 1>structure and plumbing of of traditional finance like bond trading

821
00:42:28.559 --> 00:42:31.440
<v Speaker 1>and equities, it's like it's really just like this cobble

822
00:42:31.519 --> 00:42:34.320
<v Speaker 1>together kind of plumbing. That's that it's existed for over

823
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:37.079
<v Speaker 1>one hundred years. And like you have this opportunity to

824
00:42:37.280 --> 00:42:40.360
<v Speaker 1>like start clean and like start you know, if you're

825
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:43.239
<v Speaker 1>going to build the best way for people to exchange value,

826
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:45.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, over a blockchain, Like, I think that is

827
00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:49.559
<v Speaker 1>a tremendous opportunity and an avalanche. The community has been

828
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.880
<v Speaker 1>focused on toganization, you know, you know from from the outset,

829
00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:55.440
<v Speaker 1>that was kind of the the like the core motivation

830
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.960
<v Speaker 1>of launching of this chain. So yeah, I think I

831
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:04.480
<v Speaker 1>think that kind of antiquated plumbing mixed with like people

832
00:43:04.519 --> 00:43:07.280
<v Speaker 1>want twenty four to seven everything, and so you know,

833
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:10.519
<v Speaker 1>in many cases we are limited to the trading hours

834
00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:12.480
<v Speaker 1>that we have in all of these different old money

835
00:43:12.519 --> 00:43:16.039
<v Speaker 1>centers because of this plumbing, right, and so you know,

836
00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:19.400
<v Speaker 1>the as people are going to demand a higher layer

837
00:43:19.679 --> 00:43:24.119
<v Speaker 1>level of access and liquidity, it just seems inevitable that

838
00:43:24.199 --> 00:43:25.079
<v Speaker 1>it goes to tokenization.

839
00:43:26.199 --> 00:43:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. You know something I forgot to ask you earlier

840
00:43:29.719 --> 00:43:32.920
<v Speaker 2>as far as the purchasing of these tokens and the

841
00:43:33.000 --> 00:43:35.880
<v Speaker 2>custody of them, which institution or platform are you going

842
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:36.320
<v Speaker 2>to be using?

843
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:39.440
<v Speaker 1>So we're going to be using a myriad of different

844
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:43.559
<v Speaker 1>of different solutions. At this point, everything we're using is

845
00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:47.639
<v Speaker 1>a qualified custodian. You know, in crypto, you know, we

846
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:51.719
<v Speaker 1>don't talk too much about custody. So what I would say,

847
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:56.119
<v Speaker 1>is like, we are expecting that the the regulators in

848
00:43:56.159 --> 00:43:59.920
<v Speaker 1>the US are going to demand, you know, a very

849
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:05.679
<v Speaker 1>regulated solution, and so our strategy has been to utilize

850
00:44:05.760 --> 00:44:09.239
<v Speaker 1>that as such. So everything we're using now are you know,

851
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:12.719
<v Speaker 1>qualified custodians. And I would imagine over time, you know,

852
00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:16.199
<v Speaker 1>if we were to deviate from that, it would come

853
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:20.320
<v Speaker 1>after you know, a pretty exhaustive, uh set of conversations

854
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:21.960
<v Speaker 1>with you know, our regulators.

855
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:26.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh for sure, Bart, great stuff. Looking forward to the

856
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:28.920
<v Speaker 2>future updates around the Avalanche Treasury co. But thank you

857
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:31.000
<v Speaker 2>so much for joining me. I got some wrap up

858
00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:34.400
<v Speaker 2>questions here for you. First, if you get great Drown metaverse,

859
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:35.199
<v Speaker 2>would the theme.

860
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:39.679
<v Speaker 1>Be, Oh boy, you know, I'm a big sports fan,

861
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.360
<v Speaker 1>and so I have like a college sports team, and

862
00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:45.199
<v Speaker 1>I have you know, professional sports teams in the US.

863
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:48.280
<v Speaker 1>My my my son is a is a a big

864
00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Liverpool fan, and so you know what you're seeing and

865
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:54.599
<v Speaker 1>particularly on Avalanche right now, one of the areas of

866
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:58.920
<v Speaker 1>growth in Avalanche has been uh, you know, the FIFA

867
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:01.480
<v Speaker 1>World Cup in twenty two twenty six. They're they're they're

868
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:04.119
<v Speaker 1>trying to build ticketing solutions and fan engagement on top

869
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.159
<v Speaker 1>of Avalanche right now. So that so that you have

870
00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:08.880
<v Speaker 1>this situation where you know, you go to sell a

871
00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:11.880
<v Speaker 1>ticket and some bot buys it up and it's a broker,

872
00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:14.320
<v Speaker 1>and they post out two hundred and three hundred percent

873
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:17.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, above the price they paid with consumers paying

874
00:45:17.039 --> 00:45:20.559
<v Speaker 1>this excess price right And so you know, blockchain technology

875
00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:24.599
<v Speaker 1>where you can obscure private, you know, customer information, but

876
00:45:24.719 --> 00:45:27.400
<v Speaker 1>you can still verify that person is like a verified

877
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:32.239
<v Speaker 1>purchaser and user of the ticket. That that's one technology

878
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:36.719
<v Speaker 1>you know that that Avalanches is implementing with with with FIFA.

879
00:45:37.119 --> 00:45:40.719
<v Speaker 1>And then fan engagement tokenizing you know, your rewards or

880
00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:43.360
<v Speaker 1>you know right now they have a there's a partnership

881
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:47.840
<v Speaker 1>they have with the LSU football team, and so if

882
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:50.000
<v Speaker 1>you go and you're using your card and you can

883
00:45:50.119 --> 00:45:52.519
<v Speaker 1>like get you know points that a crew for like

884
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:56.519
<v Speaker 1>a Tiger token, they call it a go token. You know,

885
00:45:56.599 --> 00:46:01.800
<v Speaker 1>you can spend that on you know, memorabilia or like

886
00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:04.079
<v Speaker 1>you know, a team T shirt or something like that. So,

887
00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:06.559
<v Speaker 1>like if you could go into a metaverse where you

888
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:09.800
<v Speaker 1>combine the ability to purchase ticketing right in a safe

889
00:46:09.840 --> 00:46:13.400
<v Speaker 1>place where you know you're buying you know, the actual

890
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:17.400
<v Speaker 1>ticket from someone that's verified, and then you're also you know,

891
00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:19.719
<v Speaker 1>crewing all of these other tokens that you can use

892
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:24.320
<v Speaker 1>kind of in a metaverse to to purchase memorabilia or

893
00:46:24.440 --> 00:46:27.519
<v Speaker 1>other kind of you know, fan things, and you have

894
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:29.159
<v Speaker 1>this like world where I could go from like one

895
00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:31.559
<v Speaker 1>team to another in a different sport, in a different league.

896
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:34.880
<v Speaker 1>That to me would be like a pretty cool start.

897
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.519
<v Speaker 1>So there's probably people out there who could come up

898
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:39.920
<v Speaker 1>with something a little bit more imaginative than that, but

899
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:42.079
<v Speaker 1>just being able to kind of go into one kind

900
00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:44.960
<v Speaker 1>of metaverse where I'm surrounded by, you know, all the

901
00:46:45.039 --> 00:46:47.199
<v Speaker 1>sports teams and I can engage in them in a

902
00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:49.960
<v Speaker 1>in a different way. I can purchase tickets, I can

903
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:53.119
<v Speaker 1>purchase memorabilia in a safe way. That to me would

904
00:46:53.119 --> 00:46:54.079
<v Speaker 1>be would be pretty cool.

905
00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:57.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as a sportsman myself, I would love that. So

906
00:46:57.599 --> 00:47:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm all for that. Rapid fire questions, favorite food, steak,

907
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:04.360
<v Speaker 2>favorite musician or band.

908
00:47:04.519 --> 00:47:07.599
<v Speaker 1>Over time, I'm I'm I'm a little i' a little

909
00:47:07.599 --> 00:47:09.280
<v Speaker 1>older than a lot of people in crypto. I'm still

910
00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:13.440
<v Speaker 1>a pretty big youtwo fan. Oh yeah, favorite movie, favorite movie,

911
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Shawshank or Goodwill Hunting. I'll go Shaw Shank.

912
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:20.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Shawshank's great favorite book.

913
00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:26.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh there's a great book that I was given when

914
00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:30.599
<v Speaker 1>I first came into working in finance, and it was

915
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:33.119
<v Speaker 1>a book that was called Never Eat Alone. And it's

916
00:47:33.119 --> 00:47:35.960
<v Speaker 1>a lesson that I've learned over the years of like

917
00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:38.400
<v Speaker 1>when you know, people come in and they work really

918
00:47:38.440 --> 00:47:39.960
<v Speaker 1>hard and they kind of like wake up, you know,

919
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:41.920
<v Speaker 1>thirty years later and they've wasted all this time. And

920
00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:45.519
<v Speaker 1>so you know that nothing is replaced by by you know,

921
00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:49.280
<v Speaker 1>interpersonal kind of relationships. And so it's it's it's taught

922
00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:52.199
<v Speaker 1>me like a lesson over time to like the interactions

923
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:54.800
<v Speaker 1>you get from just having sitting down and having a

924
00:47:54.880 --> 00:47:57.719
<v Speaker 1>meal with someone just kind of provides like a you

925
00:47:57.800 --> 00:48:01.480
<v Speaker 1>know a wealth of different benefits. And so that was

926
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:03.719
<v Speaker 1>a book that I learned on, you know that that

927
00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:05.679
<v Speaker 1>I learned from very early on in my career.

928
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:08.239
<v Speaker 2>And when you're not working, what are you doing for fun?

929
00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:13.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't I'm working a lot. I spend time with

930
00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:16.199
<v Speaker 1>my kids, you know, I have my kids sports and

931
00:48:16.599 --> 00:48:18.800
<v Speaker 1>that takes up, you know a lot of my time.

932
00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:21.239
<v Speaker 1>If I'm going to get out and do a little leisure,

933
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:23.559
<v Speaker 1>like I'd like to be on the water, So like

934
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:25.800
<v Speaker 1>being out on a boat is great, or you know,

935
00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.079
<v Speaker 1>the you know, the few times where I can get

936
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:30.119
<v Speaker 1>you know, a four or five hour window, maybe I

937
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:34.039
<v Speaker 1>can squeeze in around the golf, but in general, you know,

938
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:35.519
<v Speaker 1>when I have some free time, I just kind of

939
00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:37.119
<v Speaker 1>want to be out in a in a nice kind

940
00:48:37.119 --> 00:48:39.000
<v Speaker 1>of stream place. So a lot of times that's kind

941
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:39.519
<v Speaker 1>of on the boat.

942
00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:43.159
<v Speaker 2>Awesome, Bart, pleasure chatting with you. Looking forward to the

943
00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:45.159
<v Speaker 2>future updates. Thank you so much for joining me.

944
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:47.599
<v Speaker 1>All right, Tony, congrats on being an AVAX holder.

945
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah for sure.

946
00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:49.559
<v Speaker 1>All right,