WEBVTT 1 00:00:15.519 --> 00:00:17.839 Coming to you from the dining room table at East 2 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:21.760 Barbary Lane. Welcome to a special episode of Full Circle 3 00:00:22.039 --> 00:00:26.440 the Podcast. I am your host, Charles Tyson Jr. And 4 00:00:26.600 --> 00:00:31.559 today I am so thrilled to have our guest TJ. 5 00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:36.079 Klune is the number one New York Times in USA today, 6 00:00:36.159 --> 00:00:40.119 best selling Lambda Literary Award winning author of such works 7 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:44.079 as The House and the Cerulean Sea, Under the Whispering Door, 8 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:47.719 In the Lives of Puppets, The Green Creek Series for adults, 9 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:51.600 The Extraordinary Series for teens, and so many more. 10 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:53.200 Today we will. 11 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:57.039 Be discussing his newest work, The Bones Beneath My Skin. 12 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:00.560 I am so thrilled to have TJ. Clue at the 13 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:01.880 Full Circle Table. 14 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:05.159 Hi, TJ. How are you? I am good, Charles. Thank 15 00:01:05.159 --> 00:01:07.480 you so much for having me. I truly appreciate it. 16 00:01:08.239 --> 00:01:12.760 I have been looking forward to talking to you because, 17 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:13.439 let me tell you. 18 00:01:13.400 --> 00:01:16.719 I love the book. That's good. 19 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:21.719 The Bones Beneath My Skin is a fabulous book. And 20 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:27.760 you know one thing I am so grateful for. When 21 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:31.280 I got the invitation to read the book, I saw 22 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:35.879 queer science fiction, and I got a little nervous, only 23 00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:40.879 because I love the genre of science fiction. But when 24 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:45.480 it's a book, authors tend to do one of two things. 25 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:49.040 Either they get bogged down in the science or they 26 00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:53.000 embrace the fiction. And when you do one and not 27 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:56.519 the other, it's just not fun. But the same can 28 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:58.719 that cannot be said about this book. This book was 29 00:01:58.760 --> 00:02:02.239 so much fun. In fact, when I wasn't reading it, 30 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:07.599 I was thinking about reading it, and I love when 31 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:11.680 that happens. So tell me a little bit, tell me 32 00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:15.400 what the bones beneath my skin is about. 33 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:19.960 Yeah, So this book follows the character of Nate. When 34 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:23.159 the book opens, Nate is probably at the lowest person 35 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:25.520 a person can be. He's at the lowest of low's. 36 00:02:25.599 --> 00:02:29.199 His parents are dead through a horrific act of violence. 37 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:31.800 His brother wants nothing to do with him. He's just 38 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:34.680 been fired from his job as a journalist in Washington, 39 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:38.360 d c. For some unethical practices on his part. So 40 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:42.680 we have a very flawed, broken person when the novel opens, 41 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:45.599 and what he wants to do is with nothing left, 42 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:48.919 he goes to the only thing that he has left, 43 00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:52.479 which is a cabin in the mountains of Oregon, and 44 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:54.719 he wants to go there to refresh and regroup and 45 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:57.199 figure out what his next steps are and when he 46 00:02:57.240 --> 00:02:59.560 gets there, he expects the cabin to be empty. It 47 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:01.960 is not. Inside is a man with a gun and 48 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:06.039 a little girl who calls herself Artemis darth Vader, who 49 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:12.280 is not exactly a normal child, And from there Nate 50 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:15.919 learns about them and about their past, and he has 51 00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:18.919 to make a decision if he wants to let himself 52 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:22.520 continue to drown in his anger and his grief, or 53 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.759 he wants to do something that could change the world. 54 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:30.360 And the book follows his journey with these two other characters, 55 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:34.080 Artemis and Alex. And what I love about the book 56 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:36.639 for the most part is, yes, there's the big sci 57 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:39.319 fi adventure that goes on on top of it. There's 58 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:42.319 all there's a big cast of characters, but at its heart, 59 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:45.520 it is about Nate and art and Alex. They are 60 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:50.039 a triangle. Without them, Without any one of the three, 61 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:53.120 the picture wouldn't be complete. They are pieces from a puzzle, 62 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:55.520 from different puzzles, but when they go together, they still 63 00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:58.680 somehow fit and still form a picture. And you know 64 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:02.759 when you're writing, when you include romance in books and 65 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:05.000 stuff like that, that there's a tendency to focus on 66 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:07.919 just the two main characters that are as part of 67 00:04:07.960 --> 00:04:10.919 the romance. But with this art she is ten years 68 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:14.439 old and she is on every single page because she 69 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:18.160 is just as important as Nate and Alex are, and 70 00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:22.240 her journey is what sends Nate off into a world 71 00:04:22.279 --> 00:04:24.680 where he realizes it's not what it seems and he 72 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:27.680 has to go and figure out how to do what 73 00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:30.519 Nate or what Alex and art have started out to 74 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:31.759 do trying to get her home. 75 00:04:34.399 --> 00:04:37.920 That's yes, it's so. It was so much fun to read, 76 00:04:38.040 --> 00:04:43.040 and the character of Artemis is very charming, it's so charging, 77 00:04:44.199 --> 00:04:51.639 and the you know, I had suspected what made her 78 00:04:51.920 --> 00:05:02.480 special a bit beforehand, but I was almost wrong. And 79 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:05.680 I love that, and it kind of gave me. The 80 00:05:05.759 --> 00:05:11.000 dynamic between the three kind of gave me Louis Lastadt 81 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:14.560 and Claudia vibes, except not quite as creepy. 82 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:16.759 Not quite as creepy. We do not want to go 83 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:19.879 to that direction, Yes, and I doubt that art Art 84 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:22.240 can be a little creepy sometimes, but she's not a 85 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:27.279 child vampire queen, right, So. 86 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:31.920 What drew you to the creation of this story? 87 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:37.120 So initially, the genesis of this book goes all the 88 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:40.240 way back to twenty fifteen. I wanted to do my 89 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:43.839 own spin on a specific kind of story you have 90 00:05:43.879 --> 00:05:48.199 to think of, like Stephen King's It or Et or 91 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:51.360 Escape from Which Mountain, which is basically a group of kids, 92 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:53.879 a group of young people have to come together to 93 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:58.120 face something. I hadn't quite figured out what that something was, 94 00:05:58.199 --> 00:05:59.920 but I knew I wanted to go in that direction, 95 00:06:00.120 --> 00:06:01.839 and so the more I started thinking about it, the 96 00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:05.160 more I thought, Okay, what if we put these young 97 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:10.319 teenage boys in an adult novel and have them have 98 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.839 to surround and protect a girl who moves to their 99 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:19.040 town who exhibits some extraordinary abilities. And I hadn't started 100 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:21.879 writing anything, which is probably good because the very next year, 101 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:24.439 a funny little show called Stranger Things came out and 102 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:28.360 completely did everything that I was wanting to do, And 103 00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:33.959 that happens sometimes. My novel Under the Whispering Door, a 104 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:36.759 rumination on grief and what it does to people, was 105 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:39.759 initially going to be something very different. It was initially 106 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:42.639 going to be I was initially inspired by a very 107 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:47.600 specific scene from Beetlejuice where Alex Baldwin and Geena Davis 108 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:50.000 first die and they go to the afterlife and they 109 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:52.879 sit in the bureaucratic room where everybody has to take 110 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:55.240 a number and do that. And I had this idea 111 00:06:55.319 --> 00:06:57.519 that that's what the afterlife was, and that there would 112 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:00.199 be like some kind of system where it assigned morality, 113 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:02.519 and then what came out after that the good place, 114 00:07:02.879 --> 00:07:05.800 and there the exact same thing that I did. Right. 115 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:09.839 It happens, though, and you have to roll with the punches. 116 00:07:09.920 --> 00:07:13.120 So with the bones beneath my skin, I set it 117 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:17.120 aside for a little bit and let it cook in 118 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:19.800 the back of my head and maybe something would come 119 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:22.720 of it, maybe something wouldn't. But then when I was 120 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:26.439 randomly doing one of my research spirals where when I 121 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:28.920 have I have ADHD, so that means when I find 122 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:32.399 something interesting, I hyper fixate on it and it becomes 123 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:36.560 a personality, like right, exactly like a kid, it becomes that. 124 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:38.879 And I stumbled across something that I had not heard 125 00:07:38.879 --> 00:07:41.480 about since I was a kid, and that was a 126 00:07:41.519 --> 00:07:45.160 man named Marshall Applewhite. Now that name might not be 127 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:49.519 familiar to younger people, but to people of a certain generation, saying, 128 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:51.639 like born in the eighties and nineties like I was, 129 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:55.360 you probably remember that name. Marshall Applewhite was a leader 130 00:07:55.399 --> 00:07:59.240 of a cult called Heaven's Gate in the late nineties. 131 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:04.399 He believed this cult believed that the recently discovered comet Hailbop, 132 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:09.439 had an alien spacecraft in the tail of the comet. 133 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:12.000 And you can go online and look at all of 134 00:08:12.040 --> 00:08:15.120 Marshall Applewhite's videos. They're still available. He is a very 135 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:21.600 striking figure. He's very planned, leathery skin, his ears stick out, 136 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:24.639 he has the most inhuman eyes I have ever seen 137 00:08:24.720 --> 00:08:27.879 on a human being. And he talks about what the 138 00:08:27.879 --> 00:08:30.680 beliefs of Heaven's Gate are, what they do and the Again, 139 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:34.240 these videos are readily available. But what happened. They all 140 00:08:34.360 --> 00:08:39.279 ended up committing mass suicide and there's some very indelible 141 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:41.440 images that came out after this. For the most part, 142 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:44.240 when people remember Heaven's Gate, they remember a the comet, 143 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:47.600 and b the aftershots of what happened, which were in 144 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:50.759 a bunker with bunk beds, people with their tracksuits and 145 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:54.600 their white sneakers and sheets applied all over everyone. Then 146 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:59.440 they were dead. And to this day, Heavensgate dot Com 147 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.639 still you can go to the website right now and 148 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:04.759 look at it. It looks exactly like it did in 149 00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:07.480 the nineties and I spoke to the people who run 150 00:09:07.879 --> 00:09:11.279 Heaven's Gate the website. It's basically it's not an active, 151 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:13.559 come join our cult kind of thing. It's more like 152 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.759 a museum piece and archive of what it was like 153 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:21.200 at the time. And from there I just became fascinated 154 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:25.080 by the idea of cult leaders like Jim Jones and 155 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:31.399 David Koresh and how one person can be so charismatic 156 00:09:31.960 --> 00:09:34.879 that they can insert their will upon a group of 157 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:38.480 people and basically mold them into whatever they can be. 158 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:42.159 It is an astonishing and terrifying thing that for some 159 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:45.480 people it is so very very easy to give up 160 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:48.200 your friends, your job, your family, your money, all of 161 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:51.240 that so you can follow something specifically. If you want 162 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:54.919 a more recent example, think of QAnon when that happened 163 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:57.559 during the first Trump administration. That was all online, but 164 00:09:57.639 --> 00:09:59.480 that is in essence a cult. 165 00:10:00.120 --> 00:10:02.879 There's yeah, I was thinking of the arm Cheeto monster. 166 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:03.720 I was like, ooh, too real. 167 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:06.440 Right, And there's a cult in the news right now 168 00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:10.840 called the Zizians where they have murdered six different people 169 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:13.919 over the past like eight months, and they are a 170 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:17.840 It's mostly made up of trans people in this cult 171 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:23.519 who worked in the in the technology sector, and their 172 00:10:23.559 --> 00:10:26.799 beliefs are that AI is going to take over the world. 173 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:30.200 So their leader, the cult leader Zizian, who has just 174 00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:35.000 recently arrested, believed that if they cuddled up to AI, 175 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:38.759 that AI would when it eventually took over, would allow 176 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:41.039 them to live while destroying the rest of humanity. And 177 00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:44.360 they've killed people because of this. This happens to this 178 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:46.960 day in the year twenty twenty five. There are active 179 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:51.000 cults all over the world and they fall under some 180 00:10:51.080 --> 00:10:54.039 of the most similar patterns where there's one person with 181 00:10:54.120 --> 00:11:00.039 an idea and an entire movement in their heads, and 182 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:02.840 it's like an infection to other people until other people 183 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:05.360 come in and start doing things that they would never 184 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:09.000 have done before, like taking their own life because they 185 00:11:09.000 --> 00:11:11.799 believe in alien spaceship is in the Tale of a Comet. 186 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:17.559 It's it's fascinating because the psychology behind it is at 187 00:11:17.559 --> 00:11:21.320 this point really kind of unknown. We don't why do 188 00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:26.759 people follow Why is like say, Donald Trump, a cult 189 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:29.320 leader in a way of shape or form. These are 190 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:31.919 people who can do and say whatever they want and 191 00:11:32.000 --> 00:11:34.919 people will follow them to the ends of the earth. 192 00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:39.559 It's fascinating, but that is what brought on the new 193 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.200 way for the bones beneath my skin? Instead of kids surrounding, 194 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:45.600 you know, trying to fight some great evil, what if 195 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.039 we had two men? And I made this almost like 196 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.720 a sad Dad kind of story, right, which is, you know, 197 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:53.799 some kind of trope that happens. And I just I 198 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:57.080 loved the dynamic that came out of this between Nate 199 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:00.720 and Alex and Artemis, because not only did I get 200 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:03.799 to to go on an adventure with them, I got 201 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.159 to incorporate things like cults in the psychology behind it 202 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:11.320 and what that means for for people who who would 203 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:13.480 say I would never fall for something like that, but 204 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:16.279 then they do and they believe it. I mean, why 205 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:18.240 do you think, why do you think people still fall 206 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:21.679 for Nigerian fishing scams? Oh, I'm a Nigerian prince. Here's 207 00:12:21.720 --> 00:12:24.399 two million dollars that I need to have saved and 208 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:26.840 you're the only person that can do it. People fall 209 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:29.000 for that. Yeah, maybe a lot of them are older, 210 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:30.879 but people still fall for stuff like this. 211 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:35.080 Well, I feel like there a lot of times there 212 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:42.279 is an element of desperation, you know, a yearning to 213 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:46.440 cling to something, you know, whatever, or a yearning. 214 00:12:46.159 --> 00:12:50.879 For community, a yearning for people who think exactly like you. Yeah, right. Look, 215 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.159 when I when I when I go out on tour 216 00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:56.639 and I talk to the audiences that I have, I 217 00:12:56.679 --> 00:12:58.840 have to remind myself. Then in a way, that's like 218 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:01.679 an echo chamber, because I'm sure there's people that I 219 00:13:01.720 --> 00:13:04.799 speak to who are or that are in the audience 220 00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:09.320 that don't think trans people don't deserve to exist. So 221 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:11.600 in a way, I am speaking to an echo chamber 222 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:15.000 and getting validated by what I'm saying. And on the 223 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.159 flip side, there are people who desperately seek that validation 224 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:20.960 because they've never been listened to before, right, and they 225 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.720 want they want, And when someone finally listens to them, 226 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:28.639 or when someone finally you know, acknowledges their beliefs and 227 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:32.080 maybe even agrees with their beliefs, that's like this fusion 228 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.720 that happens. Then they're all like, guess what we should 229 00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:37.200 We should spread our ideas together. You think, like I do, 230 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:39.759 Let's come together and talk about more people. See if 231 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:41.600 we can get more people into what we're doing. 232 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:46.159 Right, and that can be a source of good, and 233 00:13:46.200 --> 00:13:48.039 that can be a source of great. 234 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:52.759 Evil exactly, And it's fascinating how how sometimes the line 235 00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:56.879 between the two isn't that you know thick that Sometimes 236 00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:59.440 it's some people who are thinking they are doing great 237 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:04.000 good actually cause great evil in effort to get to 238 00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:07.600 that good. And to me, it's the idea of moral relativism. 239 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:11.600 You have your actions have to be honest and good 240 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:13.360 if you're trying to achieve a good result. If you 241 00:14:14.080 --> 00:14:16.399 step on, hurt, or kill people to get your way 242 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:19.120 to a good result, is that result good? No, it's 243 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.320 not because you harmed so many people to get there, right. 244 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.080 And how often, like in the case of you know, 245 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:30.320 this widespread fear against trans people, it's like all you 246 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.519 need is a little bit of well, in this case, 247 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.039 a lot of bit of misinformation and just lies, and 248 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:41.000 people will grasp onto it just because it clicks with 249 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.399 that little thing that they think they believe in the 250 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:45.159 back of their head. And it's like, oh, I'm not 251 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:46.200 the only one. 252 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:49.559 You know, it's you know, the fact that this book 253 00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:52.360 is set in the nineties is a little bit ironic because. 254 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:53.080 I was going to ask you about that. 255 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:56.840 Yeah, because of the fact that the morality panic that 256 00:14:56.919 --> 00:14:59.240 is going on right now about trans people is no 257 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:02.120 different than the morality panic of the Satanic panic of 258 00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:05.360 the nineties, where people were saying, all these terrible things 259 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:08.240 are happening with the devil and children and nothing was 260 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:11.600 actually going on. People just chose to believe because that's 261 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.720 what they were told, and they thought, oh, well, yeah, 262 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.039 people would do that stuff like that gay people or 263 00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:22.159 teachers or whatever. They would believe in their pedophiles and 264 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:25.480 all of this, But there was nothing to it. Nothing happened. 265 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:28.000 It was just misinformation that had been spread. Could you 266 00:15:28.039 --> 00:15:32.080 imagine if the Internet had been as ubiquitous then as 267 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:33.679 it is now what that would have done for the 268 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:36.559 morality panic. Look what it's done for the transphobia that's 269 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:40.279 spreading across the North America and the UK. It's because 270 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.320 all of these people can come together and find people 271 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.080 who think just like them and create an echo chamber 272 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:49.159 to make sure that they are listened to and that 273 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:50.639 their beliefs are validated. 274 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:55.919 And that's the thing I think of yea E. Tangents, 275 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:56.720 I think. 276 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:02.159 ADC spiral. Here we go. 277 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:06.519 You know, I read a lot about like the KKK 278 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:10.559 when I was in college and how there were so 279 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:16.879 many white supremacist groups around the country, highly concentrated in 280 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:19.120 Pennsylvania believing. 281 00:16:18.919 --> 00:16:21.759 And Oregon that's the state where I was born and raised. 282 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:23.679 I'm actually, it's so funny you brought this up, and 283 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:25.960 I'll let you continue in a second, because the book 284 00:16:25.960 --> 00:16:29.120 I'm currently working on right now talks about the founding 285 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.960 of the KKK in Oregon and what happened and everything 286 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:33.720 that went that, So I am like knee deep in 287 00:16:33.759 --> 00:16:34.600 that history. 288 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:37.799 As interesting well. And also it's like the one of 289 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:42.320 the reasons why there are so many different factions and 290 00:16:42.360 --> 00:16:46.399 subgroups is because nobody can get their shit together enough 291 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:49.720 to come together in organized. 292 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:52.360 But we're still seeing now. I mean, I have to 293 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.000 be honest, I after the last selection, I kind of 294 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:00.960 disconnected myself from the news. It is a very privileged 295 00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:05.039 position to be able to take. But I knew that 296 00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:06.799 the news was going to be just a repeat of 297 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:09.400 twenty sixteen, that every single headline was going to be 298 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:12.000 Trump did this, Trump did this, Trump is this? And 299 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:16.160 I remember when he was inaugurated in January. I just 300 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:18.240 I happened to look in the news thing and it 301 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.000 said Trump declares the United States a country of only 302 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:25.440 two genders, male and female. And I was like, this, 303 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:28.799 this is what we're doing that it works, right, you 304 00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:31.519 have you have billions, you have millions of people complaining 305 00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:34.920 that they can't buy eggs. Right, and this this is 306 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:37.359 what we're focused on. But then again, this is the 307 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:40.519 same country where there are entire states that have that 308 00:17:40.599 --> 00:17:43.880 have enacted laws to go after one trans kid in 309 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:47.119 their states who wants to play sports. Entire states have 310 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:51.400 changed laws because of one child in them. 311 00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:53.920 Sometimes that one child doesn't even want to play sports. 312 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:55.079 It's the fact that they might want. 313 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:01.079 The child was merely inquiring if they into play sports, 314 00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:02.440 and that's what we're focused on. 315 00:18:02.599 --> 00:18:04.079 Or they bought a new pair of sneakers. 316 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.720 Right, We're not focused on We're not focused on inflation. 317 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:10.000 We're not in focused on crime. We're not in focused 318 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:15.799 on having necessary conversations about how to help immigration actually 319 00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.880 become something that is feasible for this country. We are 320 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:21.039 not trying to help the people who are down and out. 321 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:22.880 We are not trying to help poor people. We're not 322 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.680 trying to solve houselessness or food you know, insecurity, we're 323 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.240 trying to We're trying to say, here's one person who 324 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:32.599 isn't like most other people, so let's make sure that 325 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.039 they know their place. You are not normal, you are abnormal, 326 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:37.920 you are weird, you are strange, and we're going to 327 00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:42.759 make sure the laws dictate that. And that's what's happened. Look, 328 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:45.480 the right to same sex marriage in the United States 329 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:50.480 is ten years old this year. Yep, ten years old. YEP. 330 00:18:50.799 --> 00:18:55.519 Thirty six states in the United States have same sex 331 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.920 marriage bands on the book. So if oberg fell, the 332 00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.599 right to same sex marriage were to fall, like Roe v. Wade, 333 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.440 there would be states where queer marriage, same sex marriage 334 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:10.079 would be immediately invalidated. So imagine you've been married, you've 335 00:19:10.119 --> 00:19:12.359 been with your partner for forty years, you've been legally 336 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:15.279 married for the last ten. But if a Supreme Court 337 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:17.279 justice gets a bug up of their ass like they've 338 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:19.039 been hinting that they're going to do, they'll get rid 339 00:19:19.079 --> 00:19:21.640 of they'll overturn the right for gay marriage and leave 340 00:19:21.680 --> 00:19:23.480 that to the states. And what's going to happen. Look, 341 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.640 what's happened with Roe v. Wade. There are people dying, yeah, 342 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.480 because they can't get the medical, medical care that they need. 343 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.160 And you know, bringing this back full circle on this 344 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:38.640 tangents there trans people are some of the have some 345 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:42.079 of the highest suicide rates out of any marginalized group 346 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.480 in the world, yep. And the response is to punch 347 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:50.599 down on them. That is nothing but cruelty. That is 348 00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:53.000 absolutely nothing but cruelty. And you know, we've heard it 349 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:55.640 many many times over the last eight years that cruelty 350 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:59.720 is the point. But here's the thing. When you're cruelty 351 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:02.799 is on display like that, yes, you may be sending 352 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:05.799 signals out to other people who think like you that yeah, 353 00:20:05.839 --> 00:20:07.880 this is what we're doing now, But at the end 354 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:12.119 of the day, history, history, that ever pervasive thing, is 355 00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.640 going to view you like we view people like Annita 356 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:18.440 Bryant now, like we view people that, you know, all 357 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:20.680 the Chuds in the fifties and sixties, like we view 358 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:24.640 Reagan after he let an entire generation of gay men die. 359 00:20:25.319 --> 00:20:28.119 The history is going to be the ultimate judge of that. 360 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:31.160 And it's unfortunate that we can't say, you know, fuck 361 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:34.319 you now, get out of the office that we voted 362 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:38.720 to put you in. But I just I don't understand 363 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:45.200 why certain people fill the need to punch down on 364 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:50.720 some of the groups that they do, especially when it 365 00:20:50.799 --> 00:20:53.920 is never easy to be a transperson in the United States, right, 366 00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:56.400 It's never easy. It doesn't matter if you're passing or not. 367 00:20:56.680 --> 00:21:01.200 It's never easy because you're always going to have somebody 368 00:21:01.559 --> 00:21:04.200 who hates you for who you are, simply for finding 369 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:06.519 your true self and finding your identity and finding your 370 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.759 your your your right to live the way you want. 371 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:12.480 Queer people, the best revenge we can get is to 372 00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:15.279 live happily and successfully. But unfortunately there's so many people 373 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:15.960 that don't want. 374 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:20.599 Us to do that exactly. And that's you know, getting 375 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:21.839 back to getting back. 376 00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:26.519 To the book, look at that to people we did it. 377 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:33.279 Like I like to focus on, especially with the podcast 378 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:35.640 now because we're starting to burn around the news, focusing 379 00:21:35.680 --> 00:21:40.039 on queer joy and queer excellence because you know, like 380 00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:43.480 you said, the best way to battle this is to 381 00:21:43.519 --> 00:21:47.400 be let our light shine so bright that you know 382 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:50.480 it pushes them back into the shadows where they belong. 383 00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:52.359 Now, I wanted to burn their eyes out. 384 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.000 I almost said that, and then I'm back, thank you, No, 385 00:21:57.119 --> 00:21:59.119 that's your job, than I look. 386 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.559 Last eight years have taught me something very, very very important. 387 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:08.400 It's when Michelle Obama in twenty sixteen started to use 388 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:11.359 the phrase when they go low, we go high, and 389 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:14.799 I understood it at the time. I understood it now though, 390 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:16.960 when they go low, we go lower. We drag their 391 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:18.920 faces down into the muddy, We step on the back 392 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:19.480 of their necks. 393 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:23.839 That's how you sound like my bestie, she said, when 394 00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:26.119 they go low, you kick him in the face. I mean, 395 00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:27.119 they're already down there. 396 00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:29.799 Absolutely, they're already down there. Why not get down there 397 00:22:29.799 --> 00:22:31.440 with them? What's the worst that could happen. They're going 398 00:22:31.480 --> 00:22:33.000 to call you a fag, They're going to call you 399 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:35.319 they're going to call you some a horrific slur. 400 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:38.480 I have no idea that right I have. 401 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:41.200