Speaker 1: Seven oh six here at fifty five KRS detalk station,
Speaker 1: Bryan Thomas wishing everyone a happy Thursday and welcoming back
Speaker 1: to the fifty five KRC Morning Show. Find them online
Speaker 1: at b I p p S Buckeye Ensued for a
Speaker 1: Public Policy BPI dot org. God, welcome back to Jim Waters.
Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to have you on the program.
Speaker 2: It's fine, except it's the Bluegrass Institute. We're in KENTUCKYSTA.
Speaker 1: That's twice. That is twice this morning. I've screwed up,
Speaker 1: and my sincere apologies and I also had apologize.
Speaker 2: Okay, I just want everybody to know where we're.
Speaker 1: At Bluegrass Institute. I apologize, and you know that. I
Speaker 1: also apologize. They're on the program for not talking about
Speaker 1: UH and compared to Ohio Issue one, which is complex
Speaker 1: and crazy, two very simple but very important amendments that
Speaker 1: folks in Kentucky are going to be voting on Amendments
Speaker 1: one and two. So my apologies for not, you know,
Speaker 1: focusing a little bit more on that, but sounds to
Speaker 1: me like they're both great ideas.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're talking to us today, so thank you.
Speaker 1: And I know you're a you're in a debate the
Speaker 1: other day, a link debate with Bridget Bloom, who is
Speaker 1: all over Kentucky amendment to let's move that one aside.
Speaker 1: Let's start with issue one, which is very simple and
Speaker 1: I think very easy to understand. Amendment one. No person
Speaker 1: who is not a citizen of the United States shall
Speaker 1: be allowed to vote in this state, period, right right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, and the Constitution already says that,
Speaker 2: but we've seen around the country where that you know,
Speaker 2: cities in particular, have tried to get around that and
Speaker 2: allow non citizens to vote on local issues. And I
Speaker 2: think the legislature just wanted to close any loopholes there.
Speaker 2: So it's it is very simple. You're right, it's a
Speaker 2: very simple amendment, and that it really just clarifies and
Speaker 2: really closes any possibility of that happening. I think it's
Speaker 2: more of a preventing move, Brian. You know, it's more
Speaker 2: about preventing what we've maybe seen and what some of
Speaker 2: the concerns have been from what have been seen in
Speaker 2: other states, like like something like what could happen in
Speaker 2: Louisville or you know, one of our cities. Yeah, so proactive,
Speaker 2: I think that's.
Speaker 1: Listen, if it's happened elsewhere, it certainly could happen in
Speaker 1: the Commonwealth, so why not get ahead of it. Look,
Speaker 1: let's not let happen over there, happened here. So I
Speaker 1: imagine this is probably in Kentucky got pretty much widespread support,
Speaker 1: Well I would.
Speaker 2: I think so. Well, of course, we'll know for sure
Speaker 2: here in about nineteen days. But but you know, I
Speaker 2: know that that was the intention of legislators, and I
Speaker 2: think everybody pretty well understands that. I haven't heard much
Speaker 2: much disagreement about that. So and you know, getting people
Speaker 2: shaking their heads on one might help us on too.
Speaker 2: We'll see. You know, it's you know, when these things
Speaker 2: are on the ballot that sometimes that's how that works too.
Speaker 2: So I wonder if I could give us momentum on
Speaker 2: amendment too.
Speaker 1: So it may very well, because honestly, I don't understand
Speaker 1: how the opportunity for school choice that any parent, I
Speaker 1: don't care what your political stripe is, how any parent
Speaker 1: could not desire at least the ability to choose which
Speaker 1: schools their children go to, just as a concept. What's
Speaker 1: wrong with giving parents choice? And then you pivot over
Speaker 1: to the reason that people are against this idea of choice. Oh,
Speaker 1: they'll make arguments about public money going to you know,
Speaker 1: maybe religious institutions. But the bottom line is this is
Speaker 1: in order to maintain the monopoly teachers unions have over education,
Speaker 1: which is currently enshrined in the Kentucky Constitution.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That was on full display in our debate the
Speaker 2: other night, incidentally, Bet, But you know, our polling is
Speaker 2: indicated that across the board, whatever the political persuasion, a
Speaker 2: school choice is at popular idea among a strong majority
Speaker 2: of Kentucky. Is up to seventy percent in many in
Speaker 2: many groups, and even with Democrats and Independence a strong majority.
Speaker 2: The key here is to get that translated into you know,
Speaker 2: passage of this amendment. Now, this amendment doesn't create a
Speaker 2: school choice policy, right. This amendment simply says that our
Speaker 2: Constitution cannot be interpreted as prohibiting the legislature from passing
Speaker 2: those policies that would fund a school choice program like
Speaker 2: we see in Ohio and Indiana and Tennessee and every
Speaker 2: state surrounding US. I mean, there are over three hundred
Speaker 2: thousand kids today who will be in a charter school
Speaker 2: in the seven neighboring states arounding Kentucky, but none in
Speaker 2: Kentucky because we are that far.
Speaker 1: Behind well, and your state legislator has tried to allow
Speaker 1: for some funding formulas to help, you know, give the choice,
Speaker 1: but they keep getting shot down by your Supreme Court
Speaker 1: because is your Constitution as currently written, prohibits the use
Speaker 1: of public money outside of public schools. So that's the lynchpin.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, as it's interpreted any well, that's true. But
Speaker 2: this amendment would will allow the legislature to quit looking
Speaker 2: at having to look over their shoulders of what the
Speaker 2: court wants, and really looking forward to what families and
Speaker 2: students in our state need. And the Kentucky Summitive Assessment,
Speaker 2: which just came out in the last couple of weeks,
Speaker 2: shows that a majority of our students are not proficient
Speaker 2: in math, reading, and science. And so here we have
Speaker 2: this issue, and then we have the superintendents and the
Speaker 2: bureaucrats and the unions bragging about an eighty nine percent
Speaker 2: graduation rate. And I'm saying, wait a minute, what's the
Speaker 2: diploma we're handing out? Is it worth anything?
Speaker 1: Equity?
Speaker 2: But what is that worth?
Speaker 1: That's equity, brother, that's equity, full display, and it's.
Speaker 2: Not helping our kids. I am not helping our kids
Speaker 2: for the future. And that's and that's another thing, by
Speaker 2: the way, on this, I think that we see a
Speaker 2: real dichotomy in this debate between those of us who
Speaker 2: really say, let's put students first, let the system adjust,
Speaker 2: whatever the system does, it's going to do, but let
Speaker 2: the students get what they need, versus those who say,
Speaker 2: we need to protect the system, we need to prop
Speaker 2: up the system. But the funding for education is not
Speaker 2: for a system, it's not for a school. It is
Speaker 2: to educate students. And if they take those dollars, Brian,
Speaker 2: wherever they go, whether it's a traditional public school, a
Speaker 2: public charter school, or a private school, parochial school, and
Speaker 2: they get the education they need, then those dollars have
Speaker 2: been properly used because that is what they're for. And
Speaker 2: to all this nonsense about this would take money away
Speaker 2: from our education system, the truth of the matter is
Speaker 2: that even if this amendment passes, our constitution would require
Speaker 2: the legislature to create a separate programs or a schools
Speaker 2: choice program. It would not even take any state dollars
Speaker 2: away from public schools. So why why is and there
Speaker 2: so there's a lot of fear mongering from the governor,
Speaker 2: and a lot of myths being thrown out there about
Speaker 2: how this would divert money away from public education. You know,
Speaker 2: it's interesting to me, we don't talk about that that way.
Speaker 2: We don't talk that way when it comes to other
Speaker 2: public goods that we're funding with public dollars. For example,
Speaker 2: Medicare recipients they can use their dollars at whatever hospital
Speaker 2: or whatever healthcare provider they need, and nobody says, well,
Speaker 2: you're diverting money from one to the other. Why Because
Speaker 2: the money doesn't belong to the provider. It belongs to
Speaker 2: the patient to do what they need to do with it.
Speaker 2: So indeed, give the individual there is the dignity of
Speaker 2: making their own decisions.
Speaker 1: You know. And most notably because a lot of people
Speaker 1: argue that, oh, you know this is you're supporting religious
Speaker 1: organizations with the taxpayer dollars. Well, both, there's religious hospitals
Speaker 1: out there, like the Athletic Health System hospitals, they're getting
Speaker 1: Medicare dollars. That's an excellent point. I hadn't heard that
Speaker 1: one before, so big props to you, Jim for bringing
Speaker 1: that up. Well, so, and here's the language the religious.
Speaker 2: Yeah, on the religious issue, I mean, we already allowed
Speaker 2: dollars to be used at religious institutions of education, pell
Speaker 2: grants and and the GI bill. Those dollars were the
Speaker 2: individual recipient took those dollars and decided where they spent it,
Speaker 2: and they could be spent at Cincinnati Christian University with
Speaker 2: THEAH or whatever that they could be used, that dollars
Speaker 2: could be used at those schools. So we don't, we don't.
Speaker 2: We don't have this problem when it comes to higher education.
Speaker 2: Why should that be an issue with K through twelve?
Speaker 2: The question is are our kids getting educated? And the
Speaker 2: fact is the majority of them are not? So what
Speaker 2: are we going to do about it? I've asked for
Speaker 2: other solutions. I asked bridget the other night, what about
Speaker 2: other solutions?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: By the way, one other argument that comes up a
Speaker 2: lot is well, you're just taking money and giving it
Speaker 2: to the wealthy. You know that this is just going
Speaker 2: to benefit wealthy kids who are already in private schools. Well, okay,
Speaker 2: then will you agree? Will the governor and his minions
Speaker 2: agree that we will begin with a program that targets
Speaker 2: low income families in failing school means? We'll be happy
Speaker 2: to begin there.
Speaker 1: Amen, And that's the point. You don't know which direction
Speaker 1: of the General Assembly is going to go, but the
Speaker 1: language at least allows for the consideration of it. Quote
Speaker 1: the General Assembly may provide financial support for the education
Speaker 1: of students outside the system of common school with the
Speaker 1: operative word, as you are pointing out, is may Will
Speaker 1: they do it? Don't know? Might they do it in
Speaker 1: some smaller baby step like you just suggested. Maybe that'll
Speaker 1: be fa.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of states. And by the way, we
Speaker 2: just released a snapshot of thirteen northern Kentucky school districts
Speaker 2: on our website. It's not the work and Brian, you
Speaker 2: can see there is a great differ diference between say
Speaker 2: a Beechwood, you know, and and and uh, some of
Speaker 2: the other districts that are you know, the Beechwood's doing
Speaker 2: well compared to you know, let's say Newport or you know,
Speaker 2: are you know some of these other districts that Bellevue
Speaker 2: is Dayton and so forth. You know. And so if
Speaker 2: a parent lives in one of those districts that's not
Speaker 2: performing as well and they want an option, what options
Speaker 2: do they have if they can't write a check to
Speaker 2: a private school or they can't up and move to
Speaker 2: a better public school district. What options do they have
Speaker 2: right now? Not many in Kentucky, not many at all.
Speaker 1: Well, and this, if the legislative solution is an effective one,
Speaker 1: it will create more of these private schools or these
Speaker 1: alternative schools competition. The public schools will then have to
Speaker 1: compete with probably better performing at least in terms of
Speaker 1: educational outcomes, and maybe they'll get their act together and
Speaker 1: a majority will then become proficient, whereas currently, as you
Speaker 1: point out, they are not.
Speaker 2: Around the country, that's what we've seen. We've seen where
Speaker 2: there are choices, the more choices the state has, the
Speaker 2: better their public education system performs. And in Kentucky we
Speaker 2: have more than doubled per pupil funding since care in
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety inflation adjustment. We're spending twenty one thousand dollars
Speaker 2: per pupil in those northern Kentucky districts and across our state.
Speaker 2: And yet the majority of our kids aren't being educated.
Speaker 2: But in states that have increased spending less, the more
Speaker 2: choices they've given parents, their public systems are outperforming Kentucky.
Speaker 2: What is the problem here? Why can't we do this?
Speaker 1: It's just and you know, that there is even a
Speaker 1: debate on this, Jim, because in the final analysis, all
Speaker 1: I see is the people against the idea of this
Speaker 1: freedom of choice or the looking or at least for
Speaker 1: alternatives outside of the public school model. It's the teachers' union.
Speaker 1: They have monopoly currently, They have monopoly on the education
Speaker 1: materials that our children are consuming, and they have a
Speaker 1: monopoly ownership of them. A majority of the students being
Speaker 1: non proficient. That's a failing grade, my friend, right there.
Speaker 1: There's got to be a better way, and it's currently
Speaker 1: not as the status quo.
Speaker 2: It's about the system for them, it's not about the students.
Speaker 2: And by the way, the superintendents haven't been very helpful
Speaker 2: on this either. Quite frankly, they're the ones that have
Speaker 2: sued to stop these school choice bills. By the way,
Speaker 2: we have a case in the Kentucky Supreme Court about
Speaker 2: charter schools. They probably aren't going to hear that case
Speaker 2: until after the election, of course, So there is an
Speaker 2: opportunity that even no matter what happens with this amendment,
Speaker 2: if the Supreme Court will wake up and the Bluegrass
Speaker 2: Institute filed an a meekas brief. Chad Meredith, former Solicitor
Speaker 2: General of our state did great work for us on
Speaker 2: making the case about what did the founders really mean
Speaker 2: when they talked about common schools? What were they concerned about?
Speaker 2: And it was to deny parents' options. It was they
Speaker 2: didn't want taxes increase more than necessary. Isn't that ironic?
Speaker 2: In the five we're in it because the other side
Speaker 2: never saw a tax increase, they didn't absolutely adure.
Speaker 1: Isn't that the truth? Jim Water is doing a fun,
Speaker 1: a phenomenal job in support of the issues both one
Speaker 1: and two. They seem like simple, prudent, proper ways to go.
Speaker 1: And again, I keep going back to the idea, a
Speaker 1: parent of any political stripe has to want choice fundamentally
Speaker 1: that you are did any parent be willing to sacrifice
Speaker 1: their children's education merely to supportort support the monopoly that
Speaker 1: is the public the teachers union. I just don't think
Speaker 1: that washes logically or reasonably, or that any real loving
Speaker 1: parent would embrace that. Right.
Speaker 2: This isn't and this is not about destroying public education.
Speaker 2: This is about making it better, forcing it to get better.
Speaker 2: And it's a beau fan not an either or. And
Speaker 2: when we see that, we see all a rising tide lifts.
Speaker 1: All the boat check out.
Speaker 2: That's what we need to have happen here.
Speaker 1: Yep, Jim, water is always a pleasure. Keep up the
Speaker 1: great work. I'll recommend and you can read all about this, folks,
Speaker 1: BIPs Bipps dot org. It's the Bluegrass Institute's website right
Speaker 1: there on the front page there's your information BIPs dot org.
Speaker 1: Thanks again, Jim for spending time by listeners and me
Speaker 1: real pleasure.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having us today. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Thank you anytime, my friend. Anytime stick around, folks, got
Speaker 1: more to talk about. Bottom of the hour, we're gonna
Speaker 1: hear about. Well, get out the vote, Donovan and Neil,
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