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<v Speaker 1>Seven oh six here at fifty five KRS detalk station,

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<v Speaker 1>Bryan Thomas wishing everyone a happy Thursday and welcoming back

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<v Speaker 1>to the fifty five KRC Morning Show. Find them online

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<v Speaker 1>at b I p p S Buckeye Ensued for a

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<v Speaker 1>Public Policy BPI dot org. God, welcome back to Jim Waters.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a pleasure to have you on the program.

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<v Speaker 2>It's fine, except it's the Bluegrass Institute. We're in KENTUCKYSTA.

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<v Speaker 1>That's twice. That is twice this morning. I've screwed up,

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<v Speaker 1>and my sincere apologies and I also had apologize.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, I just want everybody to know where we're.

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<v Speaker 1>At Bluegrass Institute. I apologize, and you know that. I

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<v Speaker 1>also apologize. They're on the program for not talking about

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<v Speaker 1>UH and compared to Ohio Issue one, which is complex

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<v Speaker 1>and crazy, two very simple but very important amendments that

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<v Speaker 1>folks in Kentucky are going to be voting on Amendments

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<v Speaker 1>one and two. So my apologies for not, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>focusing a little bit more on that, but sounds to

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<v Speaker 1>me like they're both great ideas.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, you're talking to us today, so thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know you're a you're in a debate the

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<v Speaker 1>other day, a link debate with Bridget Bloom, who is

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<v Speaker 1>all over Kentucky amendment to let's move that one aside.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's start with issue one, which is very simple and

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<v Speaker 1>I think very easy to understand. Amendment one. No person

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<v Speaker 1>who is not a citizen of the United States shall

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<v Speaker 1>be allowed to vote in this state, period, right right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, you know, and the Constitution already says that,

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<v Speaker 2>but we've seen around the country where that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>cities in particular, have tried to get around that and

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<v Speaker 2>allow non citizens to vote on local issues. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think the legislature just wanted to close any loopholes there.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's it is very simple. You're right, it's a

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<v Speaker 2>very simple amendment, and that it really just clarifies and

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<v Speaker 2>really closes any possibility of that happening. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>more of a preventing move, Brian. You know, it's more

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<v Speaker 2>about preventing what we've maybe seen and what some of

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<v Speaker 2>the concerns have been from what have been seen in

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<v Speaker 2>other states, like like something like what could happen in

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<v Speaker 2>Louisville or you know, one of our cities. Yeah, so proactive,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's.

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<v Speaker 1>Listen, if it's happened elsewhere, it certainly could happen in

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<v Speaker 1>the Commonwealth, so why not get ahead of it. Look,

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<v Speaker 1>let's not let happen over there, happened here. So I

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<v Speaker 1>imagine this is probably in Kentucky got pretty much widespread support,

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<v Speaker 1>Well I would.

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<v Speaker 2>I think so. Well, of course, we'll know for sure

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<v Speaker 2>here in about nineteen days. But but you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>know that that was the intention of legislators, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think everybody pretty well understands that. I haven't heard much

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<v Speaker 2>much disagreement about that. So and you know, getting people

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<v Speaker 2>shaking their heads on one might help us on too.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll see. You know, it's you know, when these things

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<v Speaker 2>are on the ballot that sometimes that's how that works too.

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<v Speaker 2>So I wonder if I could give us momentum on

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<v Speaker 2>amendment too.

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<v Speaker 1>So it may very well, because honestly, I don't understand

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<v Speaker 1>how the opportunity for school choice that any parent, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't care what your political stripe is, how any parent

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<v Speaker 1>could not desire at least the ability to choose which

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<v Speaker 1>schools their children go to, just as a concept. What's

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<v Speaker 1>wrong with giving parents choice? And then you pivot over

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<v Speaker 1>to the reason that people are against this idea of choice. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>they'll make arguments about public money going to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe religious institutions. But the bottom line is this is

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<v Speaker 1>in order to maintain the monopoly teachers unions have over education,

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<v Speaker 1>which is currently enshrined in the Kentucky Constitution.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. That was on full display in our debate the

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<v Speaker 2>other night, incidentally, Bet, But you know, our polling is

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<v Speaker 2>indicated that across the board, whatever the political persuasion, a

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<v Speaker 2>school choice is at popular idea among a strong majority

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<v Speaker 2>of Kentucky. Is up to seventy percent in many in

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<v Speaker 2>many groups, and even with Democrats and Independence a strong majority.

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<v Speaker 2>The key here is to get that translated into you know,

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<v Speaker 2>passage of this amendment. Now, this amendment doesn't create a

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<v Speaker 2>school choice policy, right. This amendment simply says that our

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<v Speaker 2>Constitution cannot be interpreted as prohibiting the legislature from passing

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<v Speaker 2>those policies that would fund a school choice program like

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<v Speaker 2>we see in Ohio and Indiana and Tennessee and every

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<v Speaker 2>state surrounding US. I mean, there are over three hundred

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<v Speaker 2>thousand kids today who will be in a charter school

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<v Speaker 2>in the seven neighboring states arounding Kentucky, but none in

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<v Speaker 2>Kentucky because we are that far.

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<v Speaker 1>Behind well, and your state legislator has tried to allow

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<v Speaker 1>for some funding formulas to help, you know, give the choice,

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<v Speaker 1>but they keep getting shot down by your Supreme Court

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<v Speaker 1>because is your Constitution as currently written, prohibits the use

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<v Speaker 1>of public money outside of public schools. So that's the lynchpin.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, as it's interpreted any well, that's true. But

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<v Speaker 2>this amendment would will allow the legislature to quit looking

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<v Speaker 2>at having to look over their shoulders of what the

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<v Speaker 2>court wants, and really looking forward to what families and

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<v Speaker 2>students in our state need. And the Kentucky Summitive Assessment,

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<v Speaker 2>which just came out in the last couple of weeks,

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<v Speaker 2>shows that a majority of our students are not proficient

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<v Speaker 2>in math, reading, and science. And so here we have

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<v Speaker 2>this issue, and then we have the superintendents and the

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<v Speaker 2>bureaucrats and the unions bragging about an eighty nine percent

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<v Speaker 2>graduation rate. And I'm saying, wait a minute, what's the

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<v Speaker 2>diploma we're handing out? Is it worth anything?

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<v Speaker 1>Equity?

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<v Speaker 2>But what is that worth?

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<v Speaker 1>That's equity, brother, that's equity, full display, and it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Not helping our kids. I am not helping our kids

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<v Speaker 2>for the future. And that's and that's another thing, by

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<v Speaker 2>the way, on this, I think that we see a

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<v Speaker 2>real dichotomy in this debate between those of us who

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<v Speaker 2>really say, let's put students first, let the system adjust,

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<v Speaker 2>whatever the system does, it's going to do, but let

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<v Speaker 2>the students get what they need, versus those who say,

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<v Speaker 2>we need to protect the system, we need to prop

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<v Speaker 2>up the system. But the funding for education is not

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<v Speaker 2>for a system, it's not for a school. It is

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<v Speaker 2>to educate students. And if they take those dollars, Brian,

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<v Speaker 2>wherever they go, whether it's a traditional public school, a

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<v Speaker 2>public charter school, or a private school, parochial school, and

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<v Speaker 2>they get the education they need, then those dollars have

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<v Speaker 2>been properly used because that is what they're for. And

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<v Speaker 2>to all this nonsense about this would take money away

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<v Speaker 2>from our education system, the truth of the matter is

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<v Speaker 2>that even if this amendment passes, our constitution would require

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<v Speaker 2>the legislature to create a separate programs or a schools

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<v Speaker 2>choice program. It would not even take any state dollars

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<v Speaker 2>away from public schools. So why why is and there

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<v Speaker 2>so there's a lot of fear mongering from the governor,

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<v Speaker 2>and a lot of myths being thrown out there about

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<v Speaker 2>how this would divert money away from public education. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's interesting to me, we don't talk about that that way.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't talk that way when it comes to other

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<v Speaker 2>public goods that we're funding with public dollars. For example,

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<v Speaker 2>Medicare recipients they can use their dollars at whatever hospital

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever healthcare provider they need, and nobody says, well,

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<v Speaker 2>you're diverting money from one to the other. Why Because

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<v Speaker 2>the money doesn't belong to the provider. It belongs to

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<v Speaker 2>the patient to do what they need to do with it.

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<v Speaker 2>So indeed, give the individual there is the dignity of

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<v Speaker 2>making their own decisions.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. And most notably because a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>argue that, oh, you know this is you're supporting religious

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<v Speaker 1>organizations with the taxpayer dollars. Well, both, there's religious hospitals

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<v Speaker 1>out there, like the Athletic Health System hospitals, they're getting

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<v Speaker 1>Medicare dollars. That's an excellent point. I hadn't heard that

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<v Speaker 1>one before, so big props to you, Jim for bringing

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<v Speaker 1>that up. Well, so, and here's the language the religious.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, on the religious issue, I mean, we already allowed

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<v Speaker 2>dollars to be used at religious institutions of education, pell

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<v Speaker 2>grants and and the GI bill. Those dollars were the

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<v Speaker 2>individual recipient took those dollars and decided where they spent it,

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<v Speaker 2>and they could be spent at Cincinnati Christian University with

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<v Speaker 2>THEAH or whatever that they could be used, that dollars

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<v Speaker 2>could be used at those schools. So we don't, we don't.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't have this problem when it comes to higher education.

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<v Speaker 2>Why should that be an issue with K through twelve?

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<v Speaker 2>The question is are our kids getting educated? And the

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<v Speaker 2>fact is the majority of them are not? So what

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<v Speaker 2>are we going to do about it? I've asked for

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<v Speaker 2>other solutions. I asked bridget the other night, what about

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<v Speaker 2>other solutions?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, one other argument that comes up a

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<v Speaker 2>lot is well, you're just taking money and giving it

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<v Speaker 2>to the wealthy. You know that this is just going

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<v Speaker 2>to benefit wealthy kids who are already in private schools. Well, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>then will you agree? Will the governor and his minions

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<v Speaker 2>agree that we will begin with a program that targets

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<v Speaker 2>low income families in failing school means? We'll be happy

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<v Speaker 2>to begin there.

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<v Speaker 1>Amen, And that's the point. You don't know which direction

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<v Speaker 1>of the General Assembly is going to go, but the

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<v Speaker 1>language at least allows for the consideration of it. Quote

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<v Speaker 1>the General Assembly may provide financial support for the education

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<v Speaker 1>of students outside the system of common school with the

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<v Speaker 1>operative word, as you are pointing out, is may Will

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<v Speaker 1>they do it? Don't know? Might they do it in

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<v Speaker 1>some smaller baby step like you just suggested. Maybe that'll

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<v Speaker 1>be fa.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, a lot of states. And by the way, we

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<v Speaker 2>just released a snapshot of thirteen northern Kentucky school districts

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<v Speaker 2>on our website. It's not the work and Brian, you

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<v Speaker 2>can see there is a great differ diference between say

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<v Speaker 2>a Beechwood, you know, and and and uh, some of

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<v Speaker 2>the other districts that are you know, the Beechwood's doing

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<v Speaker 2>well compared to you know, let's say Newport or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>are you know some of these other districts that Bellevue

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<v Speaker 2>is Dayton and so forth. You know. And so if

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<v Speaker 2>a parent lives in one of those districts that's not

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<v Speaker 2>performing as well and they want an option, what options

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<v Speaker 2>do they have if they can't write a check to

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<v Speaker 2>a private school or they can't up and move to

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<v Speaker 2>a better public school district. What options do they have

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<v Speaker 2>right now? Not many in Kentucky, not many at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, and this, if the legislative solution is an effective one,

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<v Speaker 1>it will create more of these private schools or these

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<v Speaker 1>alternative schools competition. The public schools will then have to

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<v Speaker 1>compete with probably better performing at least in terms of

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<v Speaker 1>educational outcomes, and maybe they'll get their act together and

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<v Speaker 1>a majority will then become proficient, whereas currently, as you

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<v Speaker 1>point out, they are not.

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<v Speaker 2>Around the country, that's what we've seen. We've seen where

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<v Speaker 2>there are choices, the more choices the state has, the

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<v Speaker 2>better their public education system performs. And in Kentucky we

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<v Speaker 2>have more than doubled per pupil funding since care in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety inflation adjustment. We're spending twenty one thousand dollars

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<v Speaker 2>per pupil in those northern Kentucky districts and across our state.

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<v Speaker 2>And yet the majority of our kids aren't being educated.

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<v Speaker 2>But in states that have increased spending less, the more

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<v Speaker 2>choices they've given parents, their public systems are outperforming Kentucky.

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<v Speaker 2>What is the problem here? Why can't we do this?

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<v Speaker 1>It's just and you know, that there is even a

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<v Speaker 1>debate on this, Jim, because in the final analysis, all

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<v Speaker 1>I see is the people against the idea of this

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<v Speaker 1>freedom of choice or the looking or at least for

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<v Speaker 1>alternatives outside of the public school model. It's the teachers' union.

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<v Speaker 1>They have monopoly currently, They have monopoly on the education

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<v Speaker 1>materials that our children are consuming, and they have a

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<v Speaker 1>monopoly ownership of them. A majority of the students being

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<v Speaker 1>non proficient. That's a failing grade, my friend, right there.

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<v Speaker 1>There's got to be a better way, and it's currently

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<v Speaker 1>not as the status quo.

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<v Speaker 2>It's about the system for them, it's not about the students.

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<v Speaker 2>And by the way, the superintendents haven't been very helpful

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<v Speaker 2>on this either. Quite frankly, they're the ones that have

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<v Speaker 2>sued to stop these school choice bills. By the way,

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<v Speaker 2>we have a case in the Kentucky Supreme Court about

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<v Speaker 2>charter schools. They probably aren't going to hear that case

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<v Speaker 2>until after the election, of course, So there is an

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<v Speaker 2>opportunity that even no matter what happens with this amendment,

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<v Speaker 2>if the Supreme Court will wake up and the Bluegrass

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<v Speaker 2>Institute filed an a meekas brief. Chad Meredith, former Solicitor

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<v Speaker 2>General of our state did great work for us on

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<v Speaker 2>making the case about what did the founders really mean

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<v Speaker 2>when they talked about common schools? What were they concerned about?

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<v Speaker 2>And it was to deny parents' options. It was they

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<v Speaker 2>didn't want taxes increase more than necessary. Isn't that ironic?

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<v Speaker 2>In the five we're in it because the other side

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<v Speaker 2>never saw a tax increase, they didn't absolutely adure.

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<v Speaker 1>Isn't that the truth? Jim Water is doing a fun,

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<v Speaker 1>a phenomenal job in support of the issues both one

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<v Speaker 1>and two. They seem like simple, prudent, proper ways to go.

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<v Speaker 1>And again, I keep going back to the idea, a

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<v Speaker 1>parent of any political stripe has to want choice fundamentally

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<v Speaker 1>that you are did any parent be willing to sacrifice

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<v Speaker 1>their children's education merely to supportort support the monopoly that

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<v Speaker 1>is the public the teachers union. I just don't think

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<v Speaker 1>that washes logically or reasonably, or that any real loving

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<v Speaker 1>parent would embrace that. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>This isn't and this is not about destroying public education.

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<v Speaker 2>This is about making it better, forcing it to get better.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's a beau fan not an either or. And

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<v Speaker 2>when we see that, we see all a rising tide lifts.

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<v Speaker 1>All the boat check out.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what we need to have happen here.

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<v Speaker 1>Yep, Jim, water is always a pleasure. Keep up the

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<v Speaker 1>great work. I'll recommend and you can read all about this, folks,

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<v Speaker 1>BIPs Bipps dot org. It's the Bluegrass Institute's website right

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<v Speaker 1>there on the front page there's your information BIPs dot org.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks again, Jim for spending time by listeners and me

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<v Speaker 1>real pleasure.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having us today. I appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you anytime, my friend. Anytime stick around, folks, got

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<v Speaker 1>more to talk about. Bottom of the hour, we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>hear about. Well, get out the vote, Donovan and Neil,

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<v Speaker 1>Americans for prosperity. First of a word, form my dear

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<v Speaker 1>recommend them to my mom the other day. She has

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