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Speaker 1: My goodness, This is Frank being Frank fright, where the
Speaker 1: only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome
Speaker 1: to being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, franklgoring On. I'd like to thank you
Speaker 1: for joining us on what we like to call the
Speaker 1: Intelligent Conversation Podcast, where no conversations out of bounds and
Speaker 1: all points of you are welcome. Of course, we go
Speaker 1: and record live to tape, so I give you the
Speaker 1: date you have some context and relevance. It is the
Speaker 1: second of July. So within a few days of this taping,
Speaker 1: we will celebrate America's two hundred and forty ninth independence
Speaker 1: in creation And to quote the Grateful Dead, what a
Speaker 1: long strange trip it's been. There have been so many
Speaker 1: changes in America since that first independence day was celebrated
Speaker 1: nearly two hundred and fifty years ago that it is
Speaker 1: hard to fathom what life was like at that time.
Speaker 1: Could the founding fathers have possibly envisioned the megalopolis that
Speaker 1: New York City would become? And because the New York
Speaker 1: metro area has become so huge and frenetic. It's also
Speaker 1: hard to fathom what an important role the Hudson River,
Speaker 1: of the Hudson River Valley and highlands, and places like
Speaker 1: Rockland County and Naiac had in the American Revolution and
Speaker 1: therefore the formation of this country. In the forty plus
Speaker 1: years I have lived in the Hudson Valley, I'm continuing
Speaker 1: to discover just how many significant events related to our
Speaker 1: independence happened all around here, and I wonder what it
Speaker 1: might have been like for the people who lived then.
Speaker 1: So as is our mo modus operandi fancy word. Now again,
Speaker 1: we asked a real expert to join us with some
Speaker 1: intelligent conversation. Winston Perry is a lifetime resident of Rockland County.
Speaker 1: He is a descendant of the early Dutch settlers, as
Speaker 1: well as some more recent Irish immigrants. When is a
Speaker 1: graduate of Nyack High School and has degrees in American
Speaker 1: Studies from Yale and architecture from the University of California.
Speaker 1: Returning from Berkeley with a new wife and the first
Speaker 1: of four children, he began what became a fifty five
Speaker 1: year career in architecture. After working for several years for
Speaker 1: Skidmore owings and merrill. He joined a local firm where
Speaker 1: he was instrumental in the design of buildings for Rockland
Speaker 1: Community College, the Lamontdarity Earth Observatory Pace, University, and other educational,
Speaker 1: corporate and institutional clients, as well as private and nonprofit owners.
Speaker 1: In recent years, he has focused increasingly on architecture for
Speaker 1: historic preservation. When is past president of the Historical Society
Speaker 1: of the Nayaks and president of the John Green Preservation Coalition,
Speaker 1: where he is working to restore the last surviving Dutch
Speaker 1: style house in Nyack. He has served as village historian
Speaker 1: of the Village of Upper Nayak since the village's centennial
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two, and is just completed fifty years
Speaker 1: of service by helping to observe the village's one hundred
Speaker 1: and fiftieth anniversary. He is also an advocate of open
Speaker 1: space preservation, especially in achieving a protected route for the
Speaker 1: Long Path hiking trail. When himself is a hiker, downhill
Speaker 1: skier and sailor of small boats. He maintains a hiking
Speaker 1: trail that advocates for open space preservation, As we mentioned,
Speaker 1: trail design and the preservation of historic buildings. He served
Speaker 1: for twenty five years on his village Planning Board and
Speaker 1: is a member of the Rockland County Board for Historic Preservation.
Speaker 1: He's also an Eagle Scout, a former Naval Reserve officer,
Speaker 1: and in the early nineteen seventies he served as chairman
Speaker 1: of the building committee that restored the Hopper House and
Speaker 1: then as president of the board. He is fond of
Speaker 1: saying that restoring the Hopper House was the greatest adventurer
Speaker 1: of his life and that the continue success of Hopper
Speaker 1: House is like seeing a child become independent and thrive.
Speaker 1: When Perry now he can take a deep breath. Thank you,
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Very happy to be with you.
Speaker 1: When let's let's let's add a little bit more detail
Speaker 1: about Whin Perry. I mean, that's obviously the nuts and
Speaker 1: both very accomplished man, But tell us a little bit
Speaker 1: more about Whin Perry the person. For example, you know,
Speaker 1: as an architect, we kind of see the connection with
Speaker 1: his historic building preservation. But what is it what drew
Speaker 1: you to your love of history in the first place?
Speaker 1: Was that always with you?
Speaker 2: I think I inherited that from my parents. My father
Speaker 2: was a great student of local history and passed it
Speaker 2: on to me along with a collection of antique furniture
Speaker 2: and documents and books. I I now have his his
Speaker 2: love of researching, talking about sharing local history as part
Speaker 2: of our collective background of how we got here.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, and we mentioned it in the introduction.
Speaker 1: You can trace your your family line and history well back,
Speaker 1: give us a little bit more details to you. And
Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting. I mean, we always think
Speaker 1: of kind of New York literally its name is English,
Speaker 1: but before that it was New Amsterdam and it was
Speaker 1: settled by the Dutch. And again I think I think
Speaker 1: that surprises some people because we've become so Anglo Saxon
Speaker 1: oriented in our language, et cetera, but that there are
Speaker 1: still some names left like law Velt and some of
Speaker 1: the others that are Dutch in origin. But don't let
Speaker 1: me ramble on. Please tell us a little bit about
Speaker 1: your Dutch orient origins when your family first came.
Speaker 2: Yes, well, going back to the earliest they first documented
Speaker 2: European settler of Rockland County, according to George Budket of
Speaker 2: eminent historian, was Harmanis Tallman. The name was Taloma and
Speaker 2: Dutch he assigned a document indicating that he had settled
Speaker 2: in area in sixteen seventy five. Now I'm not descended
Speaker 2: from him. I'm descended from his brother shortly after all
Speaker 2: their parents. I also have Blauvelt ancestors. My parents were
Speaker 2: both Blauvelt descendants, but my mother's maiden name was Bavelt.
Speaker 2: The first perry in my line was Uriah, spelled in
Speaker 2: many different ways. He came here, apparently from Germany. He
Speaker 2: registered twice as a militia member in the Revolution, and
Speaker 2: I gathered that he didn't not only did he not
Speaker 2: know how to write his name, he also didn't know
Speaker 2: his birthday because each time he enlisted he gave a
Speaker 2: different age. But he served as a cook in the
Speaker 2: army during the French and Indian War and during the Revolution.
Speaker 2: One of the you mentioned the many things in this
Speaker 2: area that were significant in the founding of our country.
Speaker 2: I think it's absolutely amazing that the folks in Tapan
Speaker 2: signed the Orangetown Resolution, which pre figured many of the
Speaker 2: ideas that were in the Declaration of Independence. They did
Speaker 2: it exactly three hundred and sixty five days earlier.
Speaker 1: Right when you're again, this is what I meant, So
Speaker 1: many little known facts and how truly significant. And we
Speaker 1: featured Rob Norton, the owner of the seventy six house
Speaker 1: where that was. It's still there. It's in Tapan, New York,
Speaker 1: which is in Rockland County, right on the border of
Speaker 1: Bergen County. And what's amazing is and it's pretty close
Speaker 1: to intact in its original form, at least good portions
Speaker 1: of it. And I've always been amazed that this incredible
Speaker 1: document was signed there in Washington and all the Lafayette
Speaker 1: and c all the other great names from the American
Speaker 1: Revolution all the way there. We know that Major Andre
Speaker 1: was held as a prisoner there during his trial, So
Speaker 1: you know, one of the very special places and events
Speaker 1: that happened in Rockland County. So I'm glad you brought
Speaker 1: that up.
Speaker 2: Isn't that amazing? Yes, And it doesn't really make me
Speaker 2: any more of an expert, but I can trace my
Speaker 2: ancestry to many of those people who lived in tap
Speaker 2: Down at the time.
Speaker 1: Well, it's just so extraordinary. I mean, you know, people
Speaker 1: can't see us, but I have this broad smile because
Speaker 1: I love history too. I drive my partner Amanda crazy
Speaker 1: because I'm always some little history tidbits. They stick in
Speaker 1: my mind because I'm you know, it's it's a chain
Speaker 1: and we're all part of that same chain. That's you know,
Speaker 1: we couldn't be here until we were there first. So
Speaker 1: it always fascinates me. And it's just amazing. As I mentioned,
Speaker 1: I've lived up here a long time from Fort Leet,
Speaker 1: another very historic place in American revolutionary history, and as
Speaker 1: they moved north up the river to Nayak, I just amazed.
Speaker 1: From Benedict Arnold, John Andre and you know also the
Speaker 1: Battle of Stony Point, and we mentioned and you'll hear
Speaker 1: later on our signal if you will, it really doesn't
Speaker 1: literally emanate from Stony Point, but we kind of say
Speaker 1: that's kind of our home address and base. But there
Speaker 1: was a very significant Revolutionary War battle in Stony Point,
Speaker 1: which is in the northern end of Rockland County. Tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit of what you know about that, please, Well.
Speaker 2: I know a little bit about it. My grandson worked
Speaker 2: at the Stony Point Battlefield Park a couple of summers
Speaker 2: and demonstrated how to shoot a colonial musket. Oh I
Speaker 2: know about the battle is what I've read in the
Speaker 2: local history books and I visited. It is I always
Speaker 2: love to visit the places where things happened. It gives
Speaker 2: you a real feel that you don't get just from books.
Speaker 2: But the Stony Point is this rugged little rock out
Speaker 2: cropping on the shore. Yeah, and you know, it was
Speaker 2: not easy to climb up the size of it, particularly
Speaker 2: when you were thinking that the British centuries might wake
Speaker 2: up at any moment and shoot at you. But the
Speaker 2: battle didn't have any strategic importance. Really. The Americans abandoned
Speaker 2: it soon after they captured it, and the British didn't
Speaker 2: maintain it. But it was a an early victory. It
Speaker 2: did a lot to improve them morale of the rebel effort.
Speaker 1: When let's let's let's talk again and just specifically, you know,
Speaker 1: as the Upper Niyak historian and Nyack historians, and so
Speaker 1: let's let's focus. And I'm always fascinating. I noticed, for example,
Speaker 1: on North Broadway there's a new sign about skirmishes that happened.
Speaker 1: Uh tell us a little bit how active first of all,
Speaker 1: And I mentioned it also in my intro how important
Speaker 1: the Hudson River was and therefore the control of it
Speaker 1: was so important, and that included Nayak, and that there
Speaker 1: were actual combat. Again, we don't think of it almost
Speaker 1: three hundred years later, certainly two hundred and fifty, with
Speaker 1: this huge magalabolism, that there were these uh, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of raging gun battles that were going on along
Speaker 1: the river, and other significant things happening in and around.
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about and what is some
Speaker 1: of the more.
Speaker 2: You're putting your arms around a big subject there.
Speaker 1: But we have time.
Speaker 2: Hudson River was not only a major means of travel
Speaker 2: and communication up and down New York State, but it
Speaker 2: was also a natural barrier between New England and the
Speaker 2: rest of the colonies. If you wanted to go from
Speaker 2: New York to Philadelphia, you had to cross it, and
Speaker 2: UH Washington and his army crossed it several times. When
Speaker 2: the French army came over, they had to cross it,
Speaker 2: and UH these crossings frequently took place at King's Ferry,
Speaker 2: right on the north side of Stony Point that you
Speaker 2: just mentioned. The British UH quickly captured New York City
Speaker 2: and held it throughout the revolution. Many loyalists took refuge
Speaker 2: there the British A large part of the British army
Speaker 2: was housed there. The British had a big challenge finding
Speaker 2: food for all these people, and they frequently sent ships
Speaker 2: up the river and landing parties. We come ashore in
Speaker 2: small boats to forage for grain and animals cows and
Speaker 2: sheep and goats, and also to look for military age
Speaker 2: men who might cause them trouble. And these skirmishes that
Speaker 2: you refer or two were efforts to repel several of
Speaker 2: these landing parties. It took place just a couple hundred
Speaker 2: feet south of my house where that sign that you
Speaker 2: mentioned is located. These skirmishes have been in the history
Speaker 2: books for years, but only a few of us actually
Speaker 2: read those books and could connect it to the actual place.
Speaker 2: So it was really actually my son who was the
Speaker 2: Nayak just retired as a Nyak high school teacher, recruited
Speaker 2: a small group of school children who researched, looked up
Speaker 2: the information about these skirmishes, composed the sign, and ordered
Speaker 2: it and installed. The histories of Rockland County were mostly
Speaker 2: written in the florid style of the Victorian period in
Speaker 2: the eighteen nineties, and they really glorified the work of
Speaker 2: the local shoreguard militia and there shooting down these redcoat
Speaker 2: British soldiers. How many of them were buried the next morning.
Speaker 2: I think there's a little exaggeration in the books, but
Speaker 2: these skirmishes definitely took place. There is definitely a pile
Speaker 2: of scrapings from a sandstone quarry that were piled up
Speaker 2: near the river and formed a natural breastwork for the
Speaker 2: militiamen to lie down behind and shoot over the top
Speaker 2: of it at this landing party. It's a great story
Speaker 2: and it was right here, literally in my backyard.
Speaker 1: So cool now, I think it if I understand correctly
Speaker 1: you're the historian. The British never really took firm control
Speaker 1: of the Hudson River valley and highlands. They assai They
Speaker 1: on the east side of the river more but generally.
Speaker 2: Right right they were between the lines here. They their
Speaker 2: main strength was in New York City. Washington. When he
Speaker 2: was in the area, generally stayed to the north, and
Speaker 2: both parties raided each other in this area. There were
Speaker 2: a lot of loyalists here. I don't think it was
Speaker 2: fifty to fifty, but they were a very significant number.
Speaker 2: Many of them fled to Nova Scotia during the war,
Speaker 2: and there if their properties were abandoned and they were
Speaker 2: sold interesting to new owners. So yeah, there was neighbor
Speaker 2: against neighbor, cousin against cousin. Uh, rock On County and
Speaker 2: Bergen County. Uh were ah h scenes of violence and
Speaker 2: and uh destruction of of farm fields and crops and houses. Yeah,
Speaker 2: massacre murder.
Speaker 1: But I know that like the Baylor massacre for example,
Speaker 1: and it literally was also happened in the area of Japan,
Speaker 1: the Order of County. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we had our very special taste of the revolution,
Speaker 2: quite different from what other areas that were safely behind
Speaker 2: the lines.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think it's important that we talk about that
Speaker 1: that you know, there was a again because there was
Speaker 1: kind of cruelty you might say on the part of
Speaker 1: both parties. That this was a hard place, if you will.
Speaker 1: And so that brings me to my next point the
Speaker 1: independence day. Okay, how was that? First of all, how
Speaker 1: did people find out in this area that a declaration
Speaker 1: of independence was created signed? And when did it reach here?
Speaker 1: And how was it disseminated? And how was it received?
Speaker 1: As you mentioned, because not everybody was in favor, So
Speaker 1: if you could first how was word disseminated and then
Speaker 1: how was it received?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's a great question, and I don't really
Speaker 2: know the answer. There were very little in the way
Speaker 2: of newspapers. I think there might have been a couple
Speaker 2: in New York, but nothing in Rockland, so you know,
Speaker 2: word of mouth, and people traveled by various kinds of
Speaker 2: horseborne or a staurant transportation or sailing boats. So that
Speaker 2: the answer is slowly but faster than you might expect.
Speaker 2: I don't know. There weren't wasn't any radio, television.
Speaker 1: No mass media, no internet, no cell phones to check
Speaker 1: out what's happening.
Speaker 2: No Frank Lebono, no Being.
Speaker 1: Frank, no podcast. How awful, but go ahead, please continue.
Speaker 2: So I don't know how how it was learned about
Speaker 2: and how it was received.
Speaker 1: I could gather things like you the seventy six that
Speaker 1: which was called Maybe's tavern. I believe at the time,
Speaker 1: maybe people could gather and there might be readings of
Speaker 1: that nature. I would think it seemed to make logical sense.
Speaker 1: But we don't know. None of us were there, so
Speaker 1: we don't know you. But you know, as it became celebratory,
Speaker 1: as we became a truly independent nation, and it really
Speaker 1: became a day to celebrate. How has it changed through
Speaker 1: the years, and one of the things I caught my
Speaker 1: eye was Mike Hayes, who writes a wonderful column for
Speaker 1: Niac News and Views about some of the historic places
Speaker 1: and happenings around I and mentioned a particular celebration in
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen that welcome back a lot of the so
Speaker 1: called Doughboys, the troops from World War One. This elaborate
Speaker 1: arch built and they paraded through it. It was this wonderful story.
Speaker 1: If you get it people get a chance, they should
Speaker 1: check it out in Nyak News and Views. But that
Speaker 1: was one example. Can you can you maybe elaborate a
Speaker 1: little bit on that and some of the ways that
Speaker 1: that people celebrated Independence Day through the years, and how
Speaker 1: it's changed and does it still have the same significance.
Speaker 2: Well, people in Nayak and similar communities have always loved parades,
Speaker 2: and Fourth of July, like Memorial Day, there's a good
Speaker 2: excuse to have one. Also, there's always been a hot
Speaker 2: time of year, good time if it's not too hot
Speaker 2: to get together for clam bake or barbecue. So there
Speaker 2: always public events as well as family neighborhood get togethers,
Speaker 2: and I think that's been fairly constant through history. Going
Speaker 2: back to your question about the end of the revolution
Speaker 2: and how people learned about it, well, the or or
Speaker 2: how they learned about the signing of the Declaration of Independence.
Speaker 2: The end of the war was a very different story
Speaker 2: because it happened so gradually. When when did the British
Speaker 2: Cornwallis surrender at Yorktown? I remember, but I think it
Speaker 2: was in the late seventies, seventeen seventies.
Speaker 1: But it was a few years after, I mean, war
Speaker 1: raged for another few years after the signing of the declaration.
Speaker 1: Well a point, it was really just a piece of paper.
Speaker 2: It was seven eighty three before they signed the treaty.
Speaker 1: And a full correct Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Agreed about how they were going to evacuate the British
Speaker 2: from New York City. So that was a gradual, slow process.
Speaker 1: You know. I'm going to take a quick break when
Speaker 1: when we come back, I want to talk about your
Speaker 1: mission for historic preservation you work with the John Greenhouse
Speaker 1: and other places. I also talk about your advocacy for
Speaker 1: open space and the Long Trail and how those things
Speaker 1: are connected, you know, and a few other questions relative
Speaker 1: to our two hundred and fifty year history, and get
Speaker 1: get some of your perspective.
Speaker 2: Those are my favorite subjects.
Speaker 1: Could so we have a lot more to talk about,
Speaker 1: so we don't want people to go anywhere quite yet.
Speaker 1: This is great fun. My very special guest is Winston Perry.
Speaker 1: He has many things in Rockland County, uh and right
Speaker 1: now acting as the historian for Upper Nayak and also
Speaker 1: his involvement with John the preservation of the oldest remaining
Speaker 1: Dutch colonial sandstone house in Rockland County, the John Greenhouse.
Speaker 1: So we have all of that more coming back on
Speaker 1: Being Frank. I'm your host, Frank Loborno. Please don't go
Speaker 1: anywhere yet. We'll be right back after these brief commercial messages.
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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Being Frank, the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. Thanks
Speaker 1: for sticking with us. I'm Frank l Bono, and of
Speaker 1: course our engineer as always as the mailman, mister Neil Richter.
Speaker 1: We'll get back to our very special guests, mister Winston Perry,
Speaker 1: and we're celebrating American independence, talking history back to that
Speaker 1: in just one minute. I just want to remind you
Speaker 1: that we bring our audience a fresh topic just about
Speaker 1: every week, and we stream from Hudson River Radio, located
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Speaker 1: Just click and you're there. Okay, back to our conversation,
Speaker 1: I said, as of our taping were a few days
Speaker 1: of July fourth, also known as American Independence Day. And
Speaker 1: my guest is a wonderful historian from Upper Nayak and
Speaker 1: Rockland County, mister Winston Perry. When one of the things
Speaker 1: we talked about, and it was one of your favorite subjects,
Speaker 1: you know, and again it was an obvious transition from
Speaker 1: an architect, if you will, to historic preservation of historic buildings.
Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about that mission and then particularly
Speaker 1: as it relates to the John Greenhouse, which is, as
Speaker 1: we mentioned, is the oldest sandstone colonial Dutch colonial style
Speaker 1: house left in Nayak. But talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: first your involvement with historic preservation in general, and then
Speaker 1: the John Greenhouse in particular, if you will, okay.
Speaker 2: Well, As an architect, of course, I've always been interested
Speaker 2: in how buildings are designed and built and how that
Speaker 2: was done over history, and I had experience working on
Speaker 2: various older structures professionally, and then I had the opportunity
Speaker 2: as a community volunteer to really lead the restoration of
Speaker 2: the birthplace of Edward Hopper. And I had my eyes
Speaker 2: on the John Greenhouse for many years because it is
Speaker 2: the last of that kind of construct design and construction
Speaker 2: using local red sandstone accentuated by the off white color
Speaker 2: or of the mortar joints, the stone walls, often with
Speaker 2: a gambrel roof, ah and the That's the kind of
Speaker 2: house that the early settlers, the early farmers all built
Speaker 2: when they were financially able to do so. But it's
Speaker 2: the last remaining one of them in the village of Nayak,
Speaker 2: and I always felt that it was well worth saving
Speaker 2: restoring as an example of that kind of architecture and design.
Speaker 1: And when, what, wh why? Why do you think is important? There?
Speaker 1: There might be some c Okay, it's nice, it's cute,
Speaker 1: it's cool, but you know, we've got to move on.
Speaker 1: Why is historic preservation of buildings like that? Why is
Speaker 1: it important? In your mind?
Speaker 2: Well? Using John Greenhouse as an example, it's important in
Speaker 2: three ways. One because, as I just mentioned, it's an
Speaker 2: example of a disappearing style of construction and design. Second
Speaker 2: because it's associated with significant people and events in the
Speaker 2: history of the community. And thirdly because it's a one
Speaker 2: of the last remaining physical ties to NAC's golden age
Speaker 2: as a Hudson River maritime port.
Speaker 1: John Green himself was a captain, correct.
Speaker 2: So that's right. Yes, he owned, rented, captained, and used
Speaker 2: many different Hudson River sloops. It's interesting. This first one
Speaker 2: was called the Defiant, Yeah, the next one was the
Speaker 2: Well I've forgotten but it's a much friendlier name. Then
Speaker 2: the Attentive, and then Henry Edwards. And he would take
Speaker 2: a load of stone from the Nyack quarries up to
Speaker 2: Albany or down to New York City where they were
Speaker 2: used in many significant buildings in the back all the
Speaker 2: state capitol. I believe he would then load up with
Speaker 2: a load of lumber bought at Albany prices and sail
Speaker 2: it down the river for to be sold in his
Speaker 2: lumber yards in Nyack and New York at New York prices.
Speaker 2: And soon he became quite wealthy.
Speaker 1: It's gonna say, quite the shrewd businessman. It sounds enabled
Speaker 1: to build in that beautiful colonial scene and stone at you.
Speaker 2: And uh he used some of this wealth to organize
Speaker 2: the NAX Steamboat Association build build the first steamboat that
Speaker 2: served Nyak. Meanwhile, he and his fellow fellow promoters were
Speaker 2: arguing for construction of the turnpike, the predecessor of Route
Speaker 2: fifty nine. I mean, I can suffern that we're bringing
Speaker 2: uh industrial products from Ramapo and farm produce from the
Speaker 2: county all down to Johnny Greenstock and Nyak where his
Speaker 2: steamboat could take it to New York City. So he
Speaker 2: stood to profit a number of different ways in the
Speaker 2: group while promoting the growth of the community. And this
Speaker 2: uh concentration of trade through the turnbike and the steamboat,
Speaker 2: and for that matter that the Hudson River sloops continued
Speaker 2: to be popular for bulk transportation even after the steamboats
Speaker 2: were available because they were cheaper, took longer, but if
Speaker 2: you could afford to wait, you could save money anyway.
Speaker 2: The John Greenhouse has all these interesting connections to architecture
Speaker 2: and history and the appearance of the community, so on
Speaker 2: a number of different levels. I feel it's important to
Speaker 2: restore it.
Speaker 1: Well. I want to get your thoughts on it. And
Speaker 1: the fact that you mentioned John Green was a captain,
Speaker 1: and you know Night was a maritime hub for business
Speaker 1: and boating and sailing and shipping and ferries and now
Speaker 1: there's virtually none. I mean there's recreational boating there, but
Speaker 1: there's no ferry, and that that was crushed there has
Speaker 1: been proposed many times throughout the years. And is that
Speaker 1: a lost legacy.
Speaker 2: Well, to a large extent, it is fair enough. The
Speaker 2: highways trucking take care of a large percentage of our
Speaker 2: of our commercial shipping day. The railroads had their day
Speaker 2: and still significant, and the river is left largely to
Speaker 2: the recreational boaters.
Speaker 1: It's the natural transition of things. You know, you mentioned
Speaker 1: that in your in your bio, your your your love
Speaker 1: for the Hopper House, you know, the childhood home. Not
Speaker 1: people know the preeminent American painters Edward Hopper certainly maybe
Speaker 1: his most famous night Walks at the Diner, but certainly
Speaker 1: so many other great American paintings. Uh, explain a little
Speaker 1: bit why and why preserving Hopper in that house and explained,
Speaker 1: you know, his family is old also lived there, but
Speaker 1: the house had become derelict. So tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit about the story and how you came about becoming involved,
Speaker 1: and why it was ultimately important to restore his place
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, a lot of credit is owed to people who
Speaker 2: were active there before I became active. A group of
Speaker 2: largely artists, by other people aware and interested got together
Speaker 2: to to buy it after Hopper and his wife and
Speaker 2: his sister had died and a real estate developer wanted
Speaker 2: to build an apartment house there. So this committee organized,
Speaker 2: raised a little money and managed to buy the house.
Speaker 2: And I knew several people on the board at the time.
Speaker 2: I was commuting mostly by bicycle past the Hopper House
Speaker 2: every day. And uh, I.
Speaker 1: Said, on North Broadway, And I just again, we know
Speaker 1: it so well, not everybody else does.
Speaker 2: But yes, I live on North Broadway, the Hopper Houses
Speaker 2: on North.
Speaker 1: Program I'm not I'm not for myself. I walked by
Speaker 1: it all the time.
Speaker 2: My office moved around town, but it was usually on
Speaker 2: or near Main Street. So I said to my friends
Speaker 2: on the board that had bought the derelict opera house,
Speaker 2: how come you've owned it for a whole year and
Speaker 2: you haven't done anything to restore it. They took my
Speaker 2: criticism to heart. A month later, I was on the
Speaker 2: board and was chair of the restoration committee.
Speaker 1: Careful what you wish for, winds, sometimes you get.
Speaker 2: And they had used up what little money they could
Speaker 2: raise in the acquisition of the house and paying off
Speaker 2: of the loan, so we had to find creative ways
Speaker 2: to get it restored. We put temporary storm sash on
Speaker 2: the windows, and I sent the window sash home with
Speaker 2: each of the board members and each of my friends
Speaker 2: and neighbors to reglaze and repaint at home and.
Speaker 1: Brenda, that's real hands that's real hands on restoration.
Speaker 2: We got the Electricians Union apprenticeship program to wire the
Speaker 2: electrical outlets. We had to pay for the service, but
Speaker 2: the rest of it was contributed. A heating and heating
Speaker 2: contractor that I had worked with on the Rockland Community
Speaker 2: College job put in a new heating system for us.
Speaker 2: We didn't realize he was going bankrupt at the time.
Speaker 2: Uh he did. He failed and gave up his business,
Speaker 2: but in his bankruptcy filing he neglected to name us
Speaker 2: as a creditor, so we never had to pay his bill.
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes better to be lucky than good. You know.
Speaker 2: That was intentional luck?
Speaker 1: Yes, perhaps, yes we got.
Speaker 2: We got Rockling Community College to sponsor a course in
Speaker 2: uh hearing for an old house. They uh gave they're
Speaker 2: head maintenance man teaching teacher's salary for a few months
Speaker 2: and gave the enrolle's of course credit. Uh and uh
Speaker 2: uh we got volunteers in that way to finish the
Speaker 2: paint job uh and uh patch the plaster and do
Speaker 2: some set rock work. We also found a struggling young
Speaker 2: artist who needed a place to live and we don't
Speaker 2: let him live upstairs in return for carpentry work.
Speaker 1: And put him taking the place.
Speaker 2: Wound a new shingle roof.
Speaker 1: Yeah, an incredible community effort that just totally.
Speaker 2: Met People came together in numerous different ways from different
Speaker 2: directions to get the job done and it was just
Speaker 2: totally heartwarming all the way.
Speaker 1: And tell people what they can expect. Now it's this
Speaker 1: beautiful study center. There's jazz in the backyard garden. It's
Speaker 1: not you know, it's not a work in progress anymore.
Speaker 1: It's it's a thing. Tell people a little bit about
Speaker 1: what they can expect when they go to the hop.
Speaker 2: Perhaps the first jazz concert was possible because the village
Speaker 2: loaned us there the planks that they used for form
Speaker 2: work when they were installing new concrete curbs, and we
Speaker 2: used them to make a platform. I don't think they
Speaker 2: ever got them back.
Speaker 1: Still there the people to go that there's original artwork
Speaker 1: with people also and go and really get a feel
Speaker 1: for And if you look out of the windows, for example,
Speaker 1: you can see some of Hopper's work just looking out
Speaker 1: of those windows right right.
Speaker 2: And of course he got away from Nayak as soon
Speaker 2: as he was able to, in favor of New York
Speaker 2: City and Cape Cod and Paris. But Nack certainly a
Speaker 2: contributed to farming the person that he was. There's there
Speaker 2: are delightful sketches that he made in the smith's shipyard
Speaker 2: just down the hill from the house.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Let's let's talk a little bit about your
Speaker 1: advocacy for open space as well, and mentioned you're a
Speaker 1: hikers and a biker, and so you obviously take advantage
Speaker 1: of it yourself. But talk a little bit about your advocacy.
Speaker 2: Well again, from my family, my maternal grandparents bought an
Speaker 2: old hundred acre farm between Central Nac and Westnac on
Speaker 2: the west slope of the Palisades Hills when my grandfather
Speaker 2: retired as a bank teller. I don't know how he
Speaker 2: financed the purchase. Maybe he took something home from the.
Speaker 1: Bank, but I'll never tell.
Speaker 2: I was born the day after my mother took a
Speaker 2: walk on it through the woods. On that property there
Speaker 2: was sixty acres of farmland and forty acres of woodland
Speaker 2: up up the hillside. And I grew up knowing that
Speaker 2: the farm, as we called it, was available for get
Speaker 2: outdoors do some exploring and hiking or wood cutting. When
Speaker 2: I came back from California. As you mentioned in nineteen sixty,
Speaker 2: Rockland County was in the midst of rapid growth resulting
Speaker 2: from the construction of the Tapency Bridge, New York State
Speaker 2: Thruway and the Palisades Interstate Parkway and the Long Path,
Speaker 2: which in New York, New Jersey Trail Conference sponsors it
Speaker 2: goes from New York City basically to some place west
Speaker 2: of Albany and someday continue to the Aroundickx that was
Speaker 2: in competition with development forces for use of the land
Speaker 2: along the ridge. Basically, the long path through Rockland County
Speaker 2: followed the ridge of the Palisades and then jumped over
Speaker 2: to the its from River Highlands. But for most of
Speaker 2: Rockland County was protected by the Palisades Interstate Park. South
Speaker 2: of Nyack it was in the I think it's called
Speaker 2: the Blove section of the park, and then north of
Speaker 2: Nyack was in the Hook Mountain Nack Beach section of
Speaker 2: the park. But in between traversed quite a lot of
Speaker 2: privately owned land which had people were now realizing had
Speaker 2: tremendous value as undeveloped real estate. So I was involved
Speaker 2: from that point, say nineteen sixty until the present. It's
Speaker 2: an ongoing, long term project and things pieces of the
Speaker 2: Big Saw Puzzle that we put in place then are
Speaker 2: just now becoming usable because of other pieces that have
Speaker 2: become available. So I was one of a group that
Speaker 2: campaigned for the acquisition of west Hook Mountain, the part
Speaker 2: of Hook Mountain that was west of Root nine w
Speaker 2: by the town of Clarkstown, which they ultimately did acquire
Speaker 2: and are still working on links at the north and
Speaker 2: south end of it to make it ohly usable. But
Speaker 2: it was the site of the long path until a
Speaker 2: couple of houses were built up there, and then we've
Speaker 2: been trying to find ways to get around. Literally, yes,
Speaker 2: a continuing battle. When the Mountain View condominiums were built,
Speaker 2: we had to settle for a fifteen foot wide right
Speaker 2: of way along their east boundary. But at least there's
Speaker 2: that it maintained the continuity of the path. It's, you know,
Speaker 2: a chain that of which every single link is important,
Speaker 2: right sure.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 2: There was a really interesting section in South Knack or
Speaker 2: on the mountain, just west of South Nak, where the
Speaker 2: trail left the blowout section of the Palisades Interstate Park.
Speaker 2: The bridge was a section of surplus land owned by
Speaker 2: the school district above the middle school, and the school
Speaker 2: district wanted to turn it into money to reduce the
Speaker 2: school budget. They had a developer who was going to
Speaker 2: put six houses there, and I said, you know, we
Speaker 2: really need it as it's essential link in a long path.
Speaker 2: And there was there was a a young man from
Speaker 2: Nayak who had lost his life resk trying to rescue
Speaker 2: mountain climbers on a snowy mountain out west Sean Ryan.
Speaker 2: He had gone to that very middle school adjacent to
Speaker 2: which this land is located. His family has started a
Speaker 2: fund in his memory, hoping to buy a little piece
Speaker 2: of the rocky mountains in his memory, and my wife
Speaker 2: and I contributed a little bit to it. But it
Speaker 2: sat there for almost ten years, and I got the
Speaker 2: bright idea of asking the family to sponsor the purchase
Speaker 2: of this tract of surplus school district land.
Speaker 1: Where he went to school.
Speaker 2: Right, the county has some open space money and the
Speaker 2: state offered matching funds, and by suggesting that it be
Speaker 2: named the Sean Ryan Park in memory of this heroic
Speaker 2: young man, the county couldn't really refuse uh, and the
Speaker 2: school district agreed to a sale less than going prices.
Speaker 2: The county made its contribution and the state matched it.
Speaker 2: We now have the Sean Ryan Trail. There's a bench
Speaker 2: and a plaque on top of the hill.
Speaker 1: There was a wonderful tribute when you when you see
Speaker 1: those people, that's a wonderful thing to do. One last
Speaker 1: moment at a time, I wanted to allow you to
Speaker 1: put out some website information and stuff. And it's kind
Speaker 1: of a rhetorical question as a historian too. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: and and the founding fathers had a vision for America
Speaker 1: and everything seems, especially lately, to be so much turmoil changing. Uh,
Speaker 1: Is is that their vision still valid today? Is the
Speaker 1: America that that they saw? Is that what we have today?
Speaker 1: Again is the rhetorical question. I don't know if there's
Speaker 1: any real answer, just just your opinion. Would they recognize
Speaker 1: America today? I guess it is the simplest way to
Speaker 1: put it.
Speaker 2: Yes, uh. Uh as a wonderful fact of history that
Speaker 2: their dream has proved adaptable, resilient to the new situation
Speaker 2: where there are thousands of times as many people farming
Speaker 2: has changed and moved west. Uh, life is so different,
Speaker 2: the idea of freedom to govern ourselves, real monarchy, no
Speaker 2: taxation without representation. Uh. His principles have held a little
Speaker 2: problem with authoritarianism at the moment. But I think we'll
Speaker 2: get through it.
Speaker 1: So you remain opt You remain optimistic. You think Americas
Speaker 1: and the Foundations are strong enough to with withstanding the storm.
Speaker 1: Rudnaive to say, there's not. But are we strong enough
Speaker 1: to weather this storm.
Speaker 2: It's a company, it's a country made up of people
Speaker 2: who came here or whose ancestors came here with dreams
Speaker 2: and are willing to work hard to rechieve those dreams.
Speaker 2: And we still have a special h strength of personality
Speaker 2: among countries of the world that we have to work
Speaker 2: to maintain, but we have this valuable heritage.
Speaker 1: When Perry, I want to thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being frank with your intelligent conversation. Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1: This has really been enlightening.
Speaker 2: It's been a pleasure talking with you. I appreciate the
Speaker 2: opportunity to talk about some of my favorite subjects.
Speaker 1: And we enjoyed it. Thank you very much. When, and
Speaker 1: of course we offer special thanks to our listeners who
Speaker 1: take time to give us a voice in their lives.
Speaker 1: Remember if we offer fresh topic just about every week.
Speaker 1: Catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts.
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Speaker 1: Like us and leave us a comment too. You know,
Speaker 1: I was at leave you with two last little things.
Speaker 1: One of slogan that I think is appropriate, and of
Speaker 1: course some original music. And this comes from one of
Speaker 1: our founding father and fathers John Adams and I think
Speaker 1: as we wrapped up our conversation when and I this
Speaker 1: is particularly important when he said there is a danger
Speaker 1: from all men. The only maxim of free government ought
Speaker 1: to be to trust no man living with power to
Speaker 1: endanger the public liberty. Think about that for a second.
Speaker 1: Very important. Okay, we've got some great music from my friend,
Speaker 1: composer musician Robert Dubou. It's called Running. It's a fun tune.
Speaker 1: It's great for the fourth of July. Everyone, have a safe,
Speaker 1: happy and healthy holiday for our engineer, mister Neil Richter
Speaker 1: the mailman. I'm your host, Frank Lebono, and we hope
Speaker 1: to have you join us on the next being. Frank,
Speaker 1: We're the only way to be is Frank. Thanks everyone.
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