WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.520 --> 00:00:04.280 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. 2 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:09.480 My goodness, This is Frank being Frank fright, where the 3 00:00:09.519 --> 00:00:16.199 only way to be is Frank. Hello everyone, and welcome 4 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:19.760 to being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank. 5 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:22.359 I'm your host, franklgoring On. I'd like to thank you 6 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:24.239 for joining us on what we like to call the 7 00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:29.079 Intelligent Conversation Podcast, where no conversations out of bounds and 8 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:32.560 all points of you are welcome. Of course, we go 9 00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:34.880 and record live to tape, so I give you the 10 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:37.560 date you have some context and relevance. It is the 11 00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:41.520 second of July. So within a few days of this taping, 12 00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.880 we will celebrate America's two hundred and forty ninth independence 13 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:49.119 in creation And to quote the Grateful Dead, what a 14 00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:52.439 long strange trip it's been. There have been so many 15 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:55.920 changes in America since that first independence day was celebrated 16 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:58.439 nearly two hundred and fifty years ago that it is 17 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:01.280 hard to fathom what life was like at that time. 18 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:06.239 Could the founding fathers have possibly envisioned the megalopolis that 19 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:09.400 New York City would become? And because the New York 20 00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:12.920 metro area has become so huge and frenetic. It's also 21 00:01:13.000 --> 00:01:15.560 hard to fathom what an important role the Hudson River, 22 00:01:15.640 --> 00:01:18.640 of the Hudson River Valley and highlands, and places like 23 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:22.400 Rockland County and Naiac had in the American Revolution and 24 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:26.280 therefore the formation of this country. In the forty plus 25 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.480 years I have lived in the Hudson Valley, I'm continuing 26 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:32.719 to discover just how many significant events related to our 27 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:36.239 independence happened all around here, and I wonder what it 28 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:39.040 might have been like for the people who lived then. 29 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:44.680 So as is our mo modus operandi fancy word. Now again, 30 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:47.319 we asked a real expert to join us with some 31 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:53.280 intelligent conversation. Winston Perry is a lifetime resident of Rockland County. 32 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:56.760 He is a descendant of the early Dutch settlers, as 33 00:01:56.799 --> 00:02:00.560 well as some more recent Irish immigrants. When is a 34 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:03.159 graduate of Nyack High School and has degrees in American 35 00:02:03.239 --> 00:02:07.560 Studies from Yale and architecture from the University of California. 36 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:10.560 Returning from Berkeley with a new wife and the first 37 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.400 of four children, he began what became a fifty five 38 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:17.960 year career in architecture. After working for several years for 39 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:21.599 Skidmore owings and merrill. He joined a local firm where 40 00:02:21.639 --> 00:02:25.280 he was instrumental in the design of buildings for Rockland 41 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:31.319 Community College, the Lamontdarity Earth Observatory Pace, University, and other educational, 42 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:36.520 corporate and institutional clients, as well as private and nonprofit owners. 43 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:41.360 In recent years, he has focused increasingly on architecture for 44 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:46.120 historic preservation. When is past president of the Historical Society 45 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:50.360 of the Nayaks and president of the John Green Preservation Coalition, 46 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:53.879 where he is working to restore the last surviving Dutch 47 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:57.719 style house in Nyack. He has served as village historian 48 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:01.520 of the Village of Upper Nayak since the village's centennial 49 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:05.120 in nineteen seventy two, and is just completed fifty years 50 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:08.919 of service by helping to observe the village's one hundred 51 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:12.879 and fiftieth anniversary. He is also an advocate of open 52 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:17.400 space preservation, especially in achieving a protected route for the 53 00:03:17.479 --> 00:03:21.560 Long Path hiking trail. When himself is a hiker, downhill 54 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:25.520 skier and sailor of small boats. He maintains a hiking 55 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:29.400 trail that advocates for open space preservation, As we mentioned, 56 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:33.400 trail design and the preservation of historic buildings. He served 57 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:36.319 for twenty five years on his village Planning Board and 58 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:40.319 is a member of the Rockland County Board for Historic Preservation. 59 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:44.680 He's also an Eagle Scout, a former Naval Reserve officer, 60 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:47.960 and in the early nineteen seventies he served as chairman 61 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:51.599 of the building committee that restored the Hopper House and 62 00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:54.400 then as president of the board. He is fond of 63 00:03:54.439 --> 00:03:58.319 saying that restoring the Hopper House was the greatest adventurer 64 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:01.120 of his life and that the continue success of Hopper 65 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:05.759 House is like seeing a child become independent and thrive. 66 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:10.240 When Perry now he can take a deep breath. Thank you, 67 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.080 Thank you for joining us. I really appreciate it. 68 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:14.879 Very happy to be with you. 69 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:18.879 When let's let's let's add a little bit more detail 70 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.160 about Whin Perry. I mean, that's obviously the nuts and 71 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:24.199 both very accomplished man, But tell us a little bit 72 00:04:24.199 --> 00:04:28.600 more about Whin Perry the person. For example, you know, 73 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.680 as an architect, we kind of see the connection with 74 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:36.439 his historic building preservation. But what is it what drew 75 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:39.319 you to your love of history in the first place? 76 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:40.800 Was that always with you? 77 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:47.680 I think I inherited that from my parents. My father 78 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:53.800 was a great student of local history and passed it 79 00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:58.240 on to me along with a collection of antique furniture 80 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:06.759 and documents and books. I I now have his his 81 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:16.399 love of researching, talking about sharing local history as part 82 00:05:16.439 --> 00:05:19.759 of our collective background of how we got here. 83 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:24.560 Well, you know, and we mentioned it in the introduction. 84 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:28.879 You can trace your your family line and history well back, 85 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:31.680 give us a little bit more details to you. And 86 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.319 I think it's very interesting. I mean, we always think 87 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:38.480 of kind of New York literally its name is English, 88 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.160 but before that it was New Amsterdam and it was 89 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:44.680 settled by the Dutch. And again I think I think 90 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:48.160 that surprises some people because we've become so Anglo Saxon 91 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:51.759 oriented in our language, et cetera, but that there are 92 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:55.639 still some names left like law Velt and some of 93 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:58.800 the others that are Dutch in origin. But don't let 94 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:00.920 me ramble on. Please tell us a little bit about 95 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:05.000 your Dutch orient origins when your family first came. 96 00:06:05.959 --> 00:06:10.920 Yes, well, going back to the earliest they first documented 97 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:17.160 European settler of Rockland County, according to George Budket of 98 00:06:17.639 --> 00:06:27.079 eminent historian, was Harmanis Tallman. The name was Taloma and 99 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:32.199 Dutch he assigned a document indicating that he had settled 100 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:37.399 in area in sixteen seventy five. Now I'm not descended 101 00:06:37.480 --> 00:06:42.720 from him. I'm descended from his brother shortly after all 102 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:50.759 their parents. I also have Blauvelt ancestors. My parents were 103 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:55.519 both Blauvelt descendants, but my mother's maiden name was Bavelt. 104 00:06:56.959 --> 00:07:07.079 The first perry in my line was Uriah, spelled in 105 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:16.319 many different ways. He came here, apparently from Germany. He 106 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:26.120 registered twice as a militia member in the Revolution, and 107 00:07:26.399 --> 00:07:29.759 I gathered that he didn't not only did he not 108 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:33.759 know how to write his name, he also didn't know 109 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:39.120 his birthday because each time he enlisted he gave a 110 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:47.480 different age. But he served as a cook in the 111 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:51.720 army during the French and Indian War and during the Revolution. 112 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.040 One of the you mentioned the many things in this 113 00:07:58.199 --> 00:08:02.399 area that were significant in the founding of our country. 114 00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:07.279 I think it's absolutely amazing that the folks in Tapan 115 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:15.959 signed the Orangetown Resolution, which pre figured many of the 116 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:21.000 ideas that were in the Declaration of Independence. They did 117 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:25.160 it exactly three hundred and sixty five days earlier. 118 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:29.120 Right when you're again, this is what I meant, So 119 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:33.960 many little known facts and how truly significant. And we 120 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:37.279 featured Rob Norton, the owner of the seventy six house 121 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:41.320 where that was. It's still there. It's in Tapan, New York, 122 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:43.600 which is in Rockland County, right on the border of 123 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:48.159 Bergen County. And what's amazing is and it's pretty close 124 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:51.759 to intact in its original form, at least good portions 125 00:08:51.799 --> 00:08:55.279 of it. And I've always been amazed that this incredible 126 00:08:55.320 --> 00:08:59.559 document was signed there in Washington and all the Lafayette 127 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:02.679 and c all the other great names from the American 128 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:05.639 Revolution all the way there. We know that Major Andre 129 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:09.399 was held as a prisoner there during his trial, So 130 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.200 you know, one of the very special places and events 131 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:15.799 that happened in Rockland County. So I'm glad you brought 132 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:16.200 that up. 133 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:22.200 Isn't that amazing? Yes, And it doesn't really make me 134 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:25.039 any more of an expert, but I can trace my 135 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:29.720 ancestry to many of those people who lived in tap 136 00:09:29.720 --> 00:09:30.480 Down at the time. 137 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:33.679 Well, it's just so extraordinary. I mean, you know, people 138 00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:35.600 can't see us, but I have this broad smile because 139 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.159 I love history too. I drive my partner Amanda crazy 140 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:42.399 because I'm always some little history tidbits. They stick in 141 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.320 my mind because I'm you know, it's it's a chain 142 00:09:45.519 --> 00:09:47.919 and we're all part of that same chain. That's you know, 143 00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:50.960 we couldn't be here until we were there first. So 144 00:09:51.000 --> 00:09:55.159 it always fascinates me. And it's just amazing. As I mentioned, 145 00:09:55.159 --> 00:09:57.720 I've lived up here a long time from Fort Leet, 146 00:09:57.720 --> 00:10:02.720 another very historic place in American revolutionary history, and as 147 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:06.240 they moved north up the river to Nayak, I just amazed. 148 00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:10.159 From Benedict Arnold, John Andre and you know also the 149 00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:13.039 Battle of Stony Point, and we mentioned and you'll hear 150 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:16.320 later on our signal if you will, it really doesn't 151 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:19.279 literally emanate from Stony Point, but we kind of say 152 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:22.559 that's kind of our home address and base. But there 153 00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:26.879 was a very significant Revolutionary War battle in Stony Point, 154 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.799 which is in the northern end of Rockland County. Tell 155 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:33.240 us a little bit of what you know about that, please, Well. 156 00:10:33.639 --> 00:10:37.159 I know a little bit about it. My grandson worked 157 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:43.320 at the Stony Point Battlefield Park a couple of summers 158 00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:51.759 and demonstrated how to shoot a colonial musket. Oh I 159 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:53.879 know about the battle is what I've read in the 160 00:10:53.919 --> 00:11:02.440 local history books and I visited. It is I always 161 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:06.759 love to visit the places where things happened. It gives 162 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:11.200 you a real feel that you don't get just from books. 163 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:19.720 But the Stony Point is this rugged little rock out 164 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:23.919 cropping on the shore. Yeah, and you know, it was 165 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:29.639 not easy to climb up the size of it, particularly 166 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:33.279 when you were thinking that the British centuries might wake 167 00:11:33.399 --> 00:11:39.240 up at any moment and shoot at you. But the 168 00:11:42.559 --> 00:11:50.799 battle didn't have any strategic importance. Really. The Americans abandoned 169 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:54.559 it soon after they captured it, and the British didn't 170 00:11:54.600 --> 00:12:01.759 maintain it. But it was a an early victory. It 171 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:10.639 did a lot to improve them morale of the rebel effort. 172 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:16.720 When let's let's let's talk again and just specifically, you know, 173 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:19.919 as the Upper Niyak historian and Nyack historians, and so 174 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.639 let's let's focus. And I'm always fascinating. I noticed, for example, 175 00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:28.039 on North Broadway there's a new sign about skirmishes that happened. 176 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.200 Uh tell us a little bit how active first of all, 177 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:34.840 And I mentioned it also in my intro how important 178 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:39.200 the Hudson River was and therefore the control of it 179 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.799 was so important, and that included Nayak, and that there 180 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:46.480 were actual combat. Again, we don't think of it almost 181 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.279 three hundred years later, certainly two hundred and fifty, with 182 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:52.960 this huge magalabolism, that there were these uh, you know, 183 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:55.759 kind of raging gun battles that were going on along 184 00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.879 the river, and other significant things happening in and around. 185 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:02.879 Tell us a little bit about and what is some 186 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:04.440 of the more. 187 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:06.440 You're putting your arms around a big subject there. 188 00:13:06.639 --> 00:13:08.200 But we have time. 189 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:14.759 Hudson River was not only a major means of travel 190 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:20.399 and communication up and down New York State, but it 191 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:25.480 was also a natural barrier between New England and the 192 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:28.519 rest of the colonies. If you wanted to go from 193 00:13:28.600 --> 00:13:33.120 New York to Philadelphia, you had to cross it, and 194 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.840 UH Washington and his army crossed it several times. When 195 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:40.120 the French army came over, they had to cross it, 196 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:46.799 and UH these crossings frequently took place at King's Ferry, 197 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:50.480 right on the north side of Stony Point that you 198 00:13:50.639 --> 00:14:00.879 just mentioned. The British UH quickly captured New York City 199 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:08.360 and held it throughout the revolution. Many loyalists took refuge 200 00:14:08.399 --> 00:14:12.600 there the British A large part of the British army 201 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:23.360 was housed there. The British had a big challenge finding 202 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:29.879 food for all these people, and they frequently sent ships 203 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:34.039 up the river and landing parties. We come ashore in 204 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:44.279 small boats to forage for grain and animals cows and 205 00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:50.279 sheep and goats, and also to look for military age 206 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:59.399 men who might cause them trouble. And these skirmishes that 207 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:04.679 you refer or two were efforts to repel several of 208 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:11.360 these landing parties. It took place just a couple hundred 209 00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:16.960 feet south of my house where that sign that you 210 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:25.080 mentioned is located. These skirmishes have been in the history 211 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:29.639 books for years, but only a few of us actually 212 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:34.759 read those books and could connect it to the actual place. 213 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:39.840 So it was really actually my son who was the 214 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:45.480 Nayak just retired as a Nyak high school teacher, recruited 215 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:51.399 a small group of school children who researched, looked up 216 00:15:51.399 --> 00:15:58.080 the information about these skirmishes, composed the sign, and ordered 217 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:05.000 it and installed. The histories of Rockland County were mostly 218 00:16:05.480 --> 00:16:10.559 written in the florid style of the Victorian period in 219 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:17.279 the eighteen nineties, and they really glorified the work of 220 00:16:17.399 --> 00:16:27.320 the local shoreguard militia and there shooting down these redcoat 221 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:31.039 British soldiers. How many of them were buried the next morning. 222 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:35.240 I think there's a little exaggeration in the books, but 223 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:41.320 these skirmishes definitely took place. There is definitely a pile 224 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:47.879 of scrapings from a sandstone quarry that were piled up 225 00:16:47.919 --> 00:16:52.240 near the river and formed a natural breastwork for the 226 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:55.759 militiamen to lie down behind and shoot over the top 227 00:16:55.799 --> 00:17:01.919 of it at this landing party. It's a great story 228 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:06.359 and it was right here, literally in my backyard. 229 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:11.039 So cool now, I think it if I understand correctly 230 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.200 you're the historian. The British never really took firm control 231 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.599 of the Hudson River valley and highlands. They assai They 232 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:22.400 on the east side of the river more but generally. 233 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:29.400 Right right they were between the lines here. They their 234 00:17:29.480 --> 00:17:33.920 main strength was in New York City. Washington. When he 235 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:38.440 was in the area, generally stayed to the north, and 236 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:46.799 both parties raided each other in this area. There were 237 00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:49.359 a lot of loyalists here. I don't think it was 238 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.920 fifty to fifty, but they were a very significant number. 239 00:17:54.200 --> 00:17:57.920 Many of them fled to Nova Scotia during the war, 240 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:04.119 and there if their properties were abandoned and they were 241 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:13.160 sold interesting to new owners. So yeah, there was neighbor 242 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:19.799 against neighbor, cousin against cousin. Uh, rock On County and 243 00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:30.240 Bergen County. Uh were ah h scenes of violence and 244 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:40.880 and uh destruction of of farm fields and crops and houses. Yeah, 245 00:18:42.039 --> 00:18:43.880 massacre murder. 246 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:47.079 But I know that like the Baylor massacre for example, 247 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:50.359 and it literally was also happened in the area of Japan, 248 00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.640 the Order of County. Yeah. 249 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:59.279 Yeah, so we had our very special taste of the revolution, 250 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:04.400 quite different from what other areas that were safely behind 251 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:05.000 the lines. 252 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:08.400 Yeah. I think it's important that we talk about that 253 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.440 that you know, there was a again because there was 254 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:15.640 kind of cruelty you might say on the part of 255 00:19:16.319 --> 00:19:22.680 both parties. That this was a hard place, if you will. 256 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.559 And so that brings me to my next point the 257 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:31.319 independence day. Okay, how was that? First of all, how 258 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:34.960 did people find out in this area that a declaration 259 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:40.880 of independence was created signed? And when did it reach here? 260 00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.920 And how was it disseminated? And how was it received? 261 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:48.480 As you mentioned, because not everybody was in favor, So 262 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.519 if you could first how was word disseminated and then 263 00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:53.880 how was it received? 264 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:58.400 Yeah, well that's a great question, and I don't really 265 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:03.160 know the answer. There were very little in the way 266 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:05.920 of newspapers. I think there might have been a couple 267 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:10.839 in New York, but nothing in Rockland, so you know, 268 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:16.400 word of mouth, and people traveled by various kinds of 269 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:23.480 horseborne or a staurant transportation or sailing boats. So that 270 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:30.799 the answer is slowly but faster than you might expect. 271 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:39.279 I don't know. There weren't wasn't any radio, television. 272 00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:42.680 No mass media, no internet, no cell phones to check 273 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:43.519 out what's happening. 274 00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:46.839 No Frank Lebono, no Being. 275 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:53.240 Frank, no podcast. How awful, but go ahead, please continue. 276 00:20:54.720 --> 00:21:01.440 So I don't know how how it was learned about 277 00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:02.680 and how it was received. 278 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:07.799 I could gather things like you the seventy six that 279 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.839 which was called Maybe's tavern. I believe at the time, 280 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:14.400 maybe people could gather and there might be readings of 281 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:19.680 that nature. I would think it seemed to make logical sense. 282 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:22.960 But we don't know. None of us were there, so 283 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:28.720 we don't know you. But you know, as it became celebratory, 284 00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:34.400 as we became a truly independent nation, and it really 285 00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:39.119 became a day to celebrate. How has it changed through 286 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:41.240 the years, and one of the things I caught my 287 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:44.759 eye was Mike Hayes, who writes a wonderful column for 288 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:49.039 Niac News and Views about some of the historic places 289 00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:52.960 and happenings around I and mentioned a particular celebration in 290 00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:56.839 nineteen nineteen that welcome back a lot of the so 291 00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:00.920 called Doughboys, the troops from World War One. This elaborate 292 00:22:01.160 --> 00:22:04.079 arch built and they paraded through it. It was this wonderful story. 293 00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:05.960 If you get it people get a chance, they should 294 00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:08.319 check it out in Nyak News and Views. But that 295 00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:11.720 was one example. Can you can you maybe elaborate a 296 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:14.119 little bit on that and some of the ways that 297 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:17.559 that people celebrated Independence Day through the years, and how 298 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:20.640 it's changed and does it still have the same significance. 299 00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:27.559 Well, people in Nayak and similar communities have always loved parades, 300 00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:34.119 and Fourth of July, like Memorial Day, there's a good 301 00:22:34.119 --> 00:22:39.920 excuse to have one. Also, there's always been a hot 302 00:22:39.960 --> 00:22:45.640 time of year, good time if it's not too hot 303 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:52.160 to get together for clam bake or barbecue. So there 304 00:22:53.440 --> 00:23:01.799 always public events as well as family neighborhood get togethers, 305 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:11.000 and I think that's been fairly constant through history. Going 306 00:23:11.079 --> 00:23:15.480 back to your question about the end of the revolution 307 00:23:16.039 --> 00:23:19.799 and how people learned about it, well, the or or 308 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:23.759 how they learned about the signing of the Declaration of Independence. 309 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:31.039 The end of the war was a very different story 310 00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:40.599 because it happened so gradually. When when did the British 311 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:47.440 Cornwallis surrender at Yorktown? I remember, but I think it 312 00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:52.559 was in the late seventies, seventeen seventies. 313 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:55.559 But it was a few years after, I mean, war 314 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:59.000 raged for another few years after the signing of the declaration. 315 00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:02.119 Well a point, it was really just a piece of paper. 316 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:07.440 It was seven eighty three before they signed the treaty. 317 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:09.359 And a full correct Yeah, I. 318 00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:12.359 Agreed about how they were going to evacuate the British 319 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:23.720 from New York City. So that was a gradual, slow process. 320 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:29.759 You know. I'm going to take a quick break when 321 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:31.960 when we come back, I want to talk about your 322 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:35.519 mission for historic preservation you work with the John Greenhouse 323 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:38.079 and other places. I also talk about your advocacy for 324 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:41.720 open space and the Long Trail and how those things 325 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.960 are connected, you know, and a few other questions relative 326 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:50.079 to our two hundred and fifty year history, and get 327 00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:51.880 get some of your perspective. 328 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:54.960 Those are my favorite subjects. 329 00:24:54.759 --> 00:24:56.839 Could so we have a lot more to talk about, 330 00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:58.920 so we don't want people to go anywhere quite yet. 331 00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.920 This is great fun. My very special guest is Winston Perry. 332 00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:07.680 He has many things in Rockland County, uh and right 333 00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:11.960 now acting as the historian for Upper Nayak and also 334 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:17.319 his involvement with John the preservation of the oldest remaining 335 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:22.880 Dutch colonial sandstone house in Rockland County, the John Greenhouse. 336 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:25.559 So we have all of that more coming back on 337 00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:28.160 Being Frank. I'm your host, Frank Loborno. Please don't go 338 00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:32.960 anywhere yet. We'll be right back after these brief commercial messages. 339 00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:38.599 Hudson River Radio dot com. 340 00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:46.279 This is Hudson River Radio dot com. 341 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:54.519 Hudson River Radio dot com. This is Hudson River Radio 342 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:58.640 dot com. 343 00:25:58.680 --> 00:26:03.480 This is Hudson River dot com. 344 00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:07.960 Welcome back to Being Frank, the Intelligent Conversation Podcast. Thanks 345 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:11.079 for sticking with us. I'm Frank l Bono, and of 346 00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:15.039 course our engineer as always as the mailman, mister Neil Richter. 347 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:19.160 We'll get back to our very special guests, mister Winston Perry, 348 00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:24.119 and we're celebrating American independence, talking history back to that 349 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:25.920 in just one minute. I just want to remind you 350 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:29.039 that we bring our audience a fresh topic just about 351 00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:32.400 every week, and we stream from Hudson River Radio, located 352 00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:36.839 and beautiful and yes, historic Stony Point of New York. But remember, 353 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.920 you can catch Being Frank anywhere you get your favorite 354 00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:44.440 podcast that includes Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, and all the others. 355 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.160 And because every Being Frank is archived, you can listen 356 00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:52.039 to any of our programs any time you like. Final 357 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:54.440 the link to Being Frank on the Hudson River Radio 358 00:26:54.880 --> 00:26:59.640 Facebook page or at our website Hudson Riverradio dot com. 359 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:03.240 Just click and you're there. Okay, back to our conversation, 360 00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:05.960 I said, as of our taping were a few days 361 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:10.480 of July fourth, also known as American Independence Day. And 362 00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:15.119 my guest is a wonderful historian from Upper Nayak and 363 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:19.920 Rockland County, mister Winston Perry. When one of the things 364 00:27:19.920 --> 00:27:22.400 we talked about, and it was one of your favorite subjects, 365 00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:26.079 you know, and again it was an obvious transition from 366 00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:30.920 an architect, if you will, to historic preservation of historic buildings. 367 00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:35.039 Talk a little bit about that mission and then particularly 368 00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:37.519 as it relates to the John Greenhouse, which is, as 369 00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:42.759 we mentioned, is the oldest sandstone colonial Dutch colonial style 370 00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:45.119 house left in Nayak. But talk a little bit about 371 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:48.440 first your involvement with historic preservation in general, and then 372 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.720 the John Greenhouse in particular, if you will, okay. 373 00:27:53.160 --> 00:28:00.720 Well, As an architect, of course, I've always been interested 374 00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:05.240 in how buildings are designed and built and how that 375 00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:15.279 was done over history, and I had experience working on 376 00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:25.640 various older structures professionally, and then I had the opportunity 377 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:34.920 as a community volunteer to really lead the restoration of 378 00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:42.119 the birthplace of Edward Hopper. And I had my eyes 379 00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:49.039 on the John Greenhouse for many years because it is 380 00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:53.680 the last of that kind of construct design and construction 381 00:28:54.359 --> 00:29:00.000 using local red sandstone accentuated by the off white color 382 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:05.839 or of the mortar joints, the stone walls, often with 383 00:29:05.960 --> 00:29:12.519 a gambrel roof, ah and the That's the kind of 384 00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:16.640 house that the early settlers, the early farmers all built 385 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:20.680 when they were financially able to do so. But it's 386 00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:24.960 the last remaining one of them in the village of Nayak, 387 00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:33.319 and I always felt that it was well worth saving 388 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:42.839 restoring as an example of that kind of architecture and design. 389 00:29:43.200 --> 00:29:45.519 And when, what, wh why? Why do you think is important? There? 390 00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:48.279 There might be some c Okay, it's nice, it's cute, 391 00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:50.680 it's cool, but you know, we've got to move on. 392 00:29:50.920 --> 00:29:53.920 Why is historic preservation of buildings like that? Why is 393 00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:55.240 it important? In your mind? 394 00:29:55.519 --> 00:30:00.440 Well? Using John Greenhouse as an example, it's important in 395 00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:05.480 three ways. One because, as I just mentioned, it's an 396 00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:13.799 example of a disappearing style of construction and design. Second 397 00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:21.400 because it's associated with significant people and events in the 398 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:28.039 history of the community. And thirdly because it's a one 399 00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:33.200 of the last remaining physical ties to NAC's golden age 400 00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:35.880 as a Hudson River maritime port. 401 00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:41.279