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Speaker 1: Well, as promised, we are on the fortieth anniversary of

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one of the most wild professional fights ever, wildest first

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round ever. I don't think there's an argument and a

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ko by Marvin Hagler that still resonates forty years later

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over Tommy hitmanhearns. It is the Fight Preach TWU Night podcast,

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a special edition. I am merely the somewhat competent host TJ. Reeves, Hello,

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Dan Rayphiel on this special occasion, and we have got

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good Oh oh do we have a show coming up?

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How are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing good. I can't wait for the people to

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hear this, yes or see this if they're watching.

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Speaker 1: That, yes, both. Full disclosure. We are typically here going

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into the weekend with a preview coming off on the

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recap show twice every weekend, but here this is special

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occasion midweek here in April of twenty twenty five, on

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the fortieth anniversary. Thank you for finding us. Make sure

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you rate us in review us. You're going to rate

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and review this pod. I guarantee you, because coming up

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in a few moments, he was all on the closed

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circuit call to pay per view if you will in

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that time call Al Bernstein, the legendary Hall of Fame

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analyst right here on this pod to talk Hagler Hearns

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forty years later, and then later there was a second

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call of the fight in the United States. There were

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actually three calls. There was another call in Britain as well.

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But the guy that called it on HBO with Ray

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Leonard and Larry Merchant is Barry Tompkins, Dan Rayfield. Barry

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Tompkins also with us to reminisce it's a twofer you

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on the puffy. So before we get into our guests,

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give me the little quick you know what's coming, because

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we've already talked to these guys, But give me a

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little bit about being nostalgic forty years later on how

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big a deal this fight was Hagler Hearns.

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Speaker 2: Go, huge fight, obviously middleweight championship of the World. To

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set the scene, we talk about it with the guys

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a little bit. Ray Leonard is in retirement doing the

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fights for HBO, and these guys kind of found each

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other because there was no rematch for Tommy with Ray

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at that point. Hagler had been unsuccessful in getting Ray

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into the ring, and so how do we make it

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the biggest fight we can, we fight each other, and

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it was a huge, mega event. It turned out to

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be one of the great fights in the history of boxing,

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probably the greatest first round in the history of boxing period.

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And the thing that I'm so excited for the people

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to hear about is because we've already done the interviews

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with these guys. We're just taping this after the fact.

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I have, as said many times on the show when

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we've discussed these fights, that I have spent most of

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my life obsessing with these matches, the nine fights that

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took place between Marvin Hagler, Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns,

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and Roberto Durant. So for there to be new things

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for me to learn. And I say that as somebody

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that has obviously watched the fights a million times. I

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know a lot of the people that were involved with

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the fights and has spoken to them about it, not

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necessarily interviews, just people I know, other writers, the promoter,

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Bob Aram, the broadcasters. I have spoken to Al Bernstein

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and Barry just on my own private, you know, conversation

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with them about that fight and others. So to hear

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them come on with us and me here both of

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them things that I had never heard before. I've read

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the books. George Kimball, one of my longtime friends before

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he passed years ago, who covered boxing for the Boston

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Harold for many many years, who covered all nine fights

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to me, wrote the definitive book about the Four King rivalry.

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I watched a great Showtime documentary. I watched the legendary

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Nights episodes that go behind the scenes when I heard

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some of the things that al and specifically what Barry said,

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there's the thing that Barry's going to talk about about

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what made Ray finally decide that it was time for

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Marvin Hagler. And it wasn't just about the fact that

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he had had a rough night and won in a

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highly physical fight against John mcgabbi. But this blew my mind.

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I like lost, I'm losing it right now thinking about

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it that I didn't know about this Barry time gets

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said on this show.

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Speaker 1: That's a tease for what Barry talks about that here

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in a little bit.

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Speaker 2: I had to stop him and I had reasked, are

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you are you saying.

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Speaker 1: X Y Z, And He's like, wait, just wait. On

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the tees about when Leonard believed, or at least was

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being told by whom, that he could get it, that

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he could do it, that he could beat Marvin Hagler

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stand by for that again. To go back to this

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time frame, we just need to illuminate this before we

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hear from Al and hear from Barry that this is

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closed circuit. This is early in the If I'm not mistaken,

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it was a Monday night, right April to fifteenth, because

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they always would have these off the weekend because they

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could show it in movie theaters. Movies never really were

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shown or did a lot of business on Monday night

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or TUESDA night, so movie theaters, ballrooms, different locations, Monday night,

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Tuesday night. They love to have the big time fights,

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and that was the case for this one. With all

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the build up, and it's an interesting time. No internet,

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big Dan, as you know, no radio call of this fight,

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so you were a waiting to see what happened. In

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my case, I'm a teenager like you, we are the

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same age. I'm listing for the radio. I'm watching the

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ESPN Sports Center when they came on and said, what

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a violent first round. Wait until you see it at

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a later date if you haven't seen it, and the

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radio is saying Marvin Hagler has knocked out Thomas Hearns

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in the third round in what may be one of

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the wildest fights we've seen in recent memory. And so

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at that point I couldn't wait to watch the tape

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delay on HBO, which was later that week with Barry Tompkins,

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Sugar Ray Leonard, and Larry Merchant. So there's my recollection

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of being a teenager in and around that, and I

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give a quick recollection before we get to the guests.

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Speaker 2: My recollection is reading about it in the papers leading

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up to the fight. I remember reading about it in

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Sports Illustrated, which you know had done preview stories about it,

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but not getting a chance to see the fight live

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because obviously it wasn't on HBO, which we had at

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our house, but I can only watch on special occasions

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because you know, it wasn't for kids at that point,

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and so not knowing the result until actually I didn't.

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I don't think I remember watching it on Sports. I

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remember waking up and we got the newspaper delivered to

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our house, and I guess it must have ended in time,

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because I remember being in the newspaper and me looking

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at the paper and then watching the replay, you know,

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several days later, but really sinking my teeth into the fight.

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When the Sports Illustrated came that had it on the cover,

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that gave the extent, you know, gave their review, if

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you will, their story about the fight, which was always

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a great read. And I still have that issue, believe

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it or not, you believe it in my collection of

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boxing stuff. But yeah, that's how I found out about

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I didn't know the result until the next morning because

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I guess, you know, it was probably a school night,

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wasn't staying up late, but was excited to see what

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the result was. And the other thing I remember is

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going to school the next day, and you know, I

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wasn't like a die hard boxing can at that point,

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but I still if it's a big fight, you still

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kind of knew about it, even if it wasn't heavyweights.

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But I remember the buzz, like going like to like

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the lunch room or going to like study hall or

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to the library or whatever it was. But all the

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kids were talking about the fight and the result. That

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was like one of the only times growing up that

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I can remember in school there being like an excitement

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from my schoolmates. It was that fight and it was

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when Mike Tyson was knocking everybody out when he won

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the title against Burbic. Things like that. It took something

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really special to get my classmates all jacked up on

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a fight.

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Speaker 1: And of course the gen Zers now have no idea

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what a newspaper is, but boxing was so mainstream that

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it was front page of the newspaper, not just front

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page of the sports section. And that was a night

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where they would have held the printing of the front

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page for weight, We're going to get the result of

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the fight and put two paragraphs in on the front

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page with a pictures. You didn't have the internet, kids,

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you didn't have instantaneous stuff on your phone to be

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able to find it out.

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Speaker 2: There was no phone. It was nail wall in your kitchen.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right, with a rotary dial probably. So that's

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the time period that we're talking about, nineteen eighty five.

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We're talking about two Hall of famers squaring off and

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eventually it's after the most violent of first rounds, it's

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Marvin Hagler who's victorious. So better than just you and me, reminisce,

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shall we bring our two guests on? Why don't we

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do that? Al Bernstein, who was on the call that

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night on the Closed circuit on the pay per view

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if you will, no pay per view in the home

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back in nineteen eighty five, no box. You had to

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go to a location to be able to see it.

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Al Michaels, the legendary voice now of the NFL that

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you know him as, but he was a star for ABC.

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He was on the play by play call. Al Bernstein's

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going to explain how he came to be on the

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closed circuit broadcast in his relationship with Al Michaels. And

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then you'll hear from Barry Tompkins. He and Ray Leonard

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and again Larry Merchant were on the replay call the

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HBO tape delayed replay later in the week calling it live,

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sitting right there calling it live, but they're broadcast aired

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days later on the weekend. Let's hear from both of

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those guys now on Hagler and Hearns and what they

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remember as promised. He was there, Big Dan forty years

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ago April fifteenth, nineteen eighty five, on the Closed Circuit

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broad cast with the Al Michaels. Hello, Al Bernstein, great

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to have you back on the Big Fight Weekend. Podcast. Okay,

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the first one is we keep saying this. I don't

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want to accept that this is forty years on, but

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it is forty years on. Al. It's great to have you,

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and it's it's remarkable that here we are talking about

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this fight four decades later.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, pretty amazing. Luckily for me, I was ten years

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old when I did it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and still and still and still knocking on bed.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 4: It was.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a remarkable thing and it Yeah, it

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doesn't seem like it could be forty years right, you know,

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it just doesn't. But nonetheless, it was a remarkable time

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and it's so burned in our minds. I think that

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you know, we all can remember, you know, what we

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were up to at that time. Obviously I was, I

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know what I was doing. I was sitting ringside calling

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this fight and every aspect of it. You know, it

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is a vivid memory to me.

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Speaker 1: Let's pick it up from the beginning. I've asked you

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this before, but for the audience here, how did it

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come about that you would be on the closed circuit

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broadcast with Al Michaels with Kurt Gowdy as the host

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explained How all of that came about?

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Speaker 3: Well, it was interesting. My part wasn't that complicated because

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now I was only five years into my broadcasting career

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and I had done and I was doing the Top

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Rank boxing series, which is virtually every week on ESPN,

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so the Top Rank people who were coordinating at telecast.

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I wasn't working for them or anything, but I was

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working intimately with them because I was doing their series

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every week, and I had done the nineteen eighty three

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Duran Hagler fight with my then partner Seal Marciano, so

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I had done a major pay per view for them,

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and then when this one came up, I guess it

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made sense for them to ask me, and they did.

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And the reason that al Michaels got on the job,

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I happen to know, is because at that time ABC

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was considering me too. They were going to go have

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an analyst for their boxing. They'd always done the boxing

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with a singular voice Cosell, and then they had other

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people doing it, you know, Chris Shankle and some other

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Keth Jackson did a little boxing, and they they were

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going to add they were going to make it a

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two person team, and they were considering me, and they

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wanted and they were gonna have al Michaels do the boxing,

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so they wanted to hear us together. So they contacted

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top Rank and said, because you put al Michaels on

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this pay per view, and I get they were probably

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happy to do that because that was even at that

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time was his career was burgeoning, and that was how

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we got paired. And of course Kirk Goudy I don't

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know the genesis of him coming up on the broadcast,

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but I've never even met Kirk Gowdy at that point

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in my life, and and you know, I grew up

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watching him, so it was pretty remarkable. I mean, I

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remember sitting in the in the production meetings thinking to myself,

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Holy cow, how do I land here?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 3: But it was really pretty well.

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Speaker 1: Did Dan go ahead? All right?

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Speaker 2: Now? I got? I got. I've always wondered this actually

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because and not teacher, I were talking about this before

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you joined us on the call. There are two broadcasts

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for this point, as we know you, as you mentioned

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you did the what became as the international broadcast with

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al Michaels.

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Speaker 3: Well that was the official pay per view.

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Speaker 2: Right and well, yeah, international and the payperview closed circuit,

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et cetera. But and then there was the HBO broadcast

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right with their broadcast team and your broadcast. And even

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though HBO was where I think a lot of people

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may have seen it a week later on the replay

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over the course of time, that broadcast that you and

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al Michaels did together, I believe has been seen way

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more than the other one because it was on you know,

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Super Bouts and ESPN Classic and it just that's the

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one that gets replayed way more often. You can find

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it more readily on YouTube maybe. Yeah. So my question

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is this, have you so you're sitting there doing that

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fight with with al Michaels, and then there's also you

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know what I think is a similarly famous call of

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the fight by HBO folks. Have you ever gone back

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and watched their version that sort of sees how and

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what are your impressions of the differences, because they both

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have very memorable lines from you and and and also

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from their broadcasters.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good point. And of course, Barry Thompkins,

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I did the broadcast with Larry and Ray Leonards, right,

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Uh and and uh they Uh, Barry and I talk

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about I have talked about it many times. And then

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of course, as you know and everybody else. I worked

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with Barry for eight or nine years on the Top

282
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Rank Boxing series. It was there are differences based on

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a bunch of different things. I mean, are I'm going

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to say something honestly here that I don't know if

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I've ever said before.

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Speaker 2: Bring it on.

287
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Speaker 3: I didn't really like my call at that fight?

288
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Speaker 2: Wow? Why because I didn't love it?

289
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Speaker 3: I I mean, I thought it was okay, but I

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I departed a little bit from my normal style. The

291
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excitement of the moment had me a little more excited,

292
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and my voice texture and everything. Uh, and and I

293
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wasn't one hundred percent. I thought I did some good

294
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things on the on the on the broadcast, but it

295
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wasn't exactly me. And now Michael's interestingly, who had done that?

296
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You know that all we had done the undercard all

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the way leading up to it. Uh, he's a He's

298
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not a wildly excitable broadcaster. He's got a little bit

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more of a subdued style, even though he can be excited. Well,

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he was more dude during the first you know, two

301
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and a half hours, and then he was very excited

302
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during the show. So it wasn't that I think we

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did a bad job. It's our broadcast.

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Speaker 2: I think if you.

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Speaker 3: Listen to it is I'm going to say a little

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more up tempo, if you will, then I would have

307
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expected it to be. And I think Barry and Ray

308
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and Larry did also. I mean, I thought they did

309
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a wonderful job on their broadcast, and it was just

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the nature of the beast is that you have all

311
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these different people doing it, so of course they're going

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to approach it differently. And I think the big thing

313
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was that was the only time El Michaels and I

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ever did boxing together, whereas Barry and that group had

315
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done it, you know, all the time. So yeah, there

316
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are differences. I'm not saying I hated what I did,

317
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but I just if that's one of those times in life,

318
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because it gets replayed over and over and over again,

319
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:07,960
I wish I could jump back in time and do

320
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some things differently.

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Speaker 2: I think although the fact that you mentioned that you

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got I was so excited. That's what comes across to

323
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the fans watching that gets because when the broadcasters get

324
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excited yeah, but are still calling the action, it gets

325
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the rest of the folks watching all juice.

326
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it was organic you know I'm not, as

327
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you know, you know me very well. I'm not a

328
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person who goes into it with the taglines or thinking

329
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about being excited. It was organic, so I guess the

330
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organic feeling of it. And I am glad I said

331
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that line at the end of the first round, which

332
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,000
was organic and just came out of me. I'm not

333
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:44,759
giving the hyperplely where I said, you know, it's one

334
00:16:44,799 --> 00:16:48,159
of the great rounds in middleweight history, which is pretty

335
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,120
much an obvious statement, but well, the only thing I

336
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:52,639
needed to be said at that point.

337
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Speaker 2: The only thing you can criticize that line for is

338
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maybe you could have just left out the word middle weight.

339
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It wouldn't even have mattered, because.

340
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Speaker 3: That's exactly right. I could one of the great runs

341
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of boxing history, which it was.

342
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,880
Speaker 2: So I have another question about that for you. Then,

343
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now I don't know how the the the logistics of

344
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:10,559
the event work. Did you guys have like a fighter

345
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:12,240
meeting with the guys like in the day or so

346
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,200
before the fight? Do you remember we did?

347
00:17:14,279 --> 00:17:16,359
Speaker 3: And I can't. I know what you're gonna ask. Was

348
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:17,880
it with everybody? Well?

349
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Speaker 2: I know that that I'd be interested. Actually it was,

350
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:23,759
But uh, the reason I'm asking, I'm what I want

351
00:17:23,799 --> 00:17:26,200
to get at is when you're all or whoever was there,

352
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,559
whether it's just you and and telling you're in your

353
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close circuit team, or you're also in the same room

354
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with the other guys, I wonder is if you had

355
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,559
the inkling in that moment, in that meeting that this

356
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,839
was going to be you know, throw caution to the

357
00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:43,880
wind and just come out blasting. Because Bob Aram has

358
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:46,440
told the story many times about being on the press

359
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:48,319
tour whe they had a barn storm and they were

360
00:17:48,319 --> 00:17:50,359
facing each other every day for like, you know, a

361
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:51,920
couple of weeks, and they just wanted to beat the

362
00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:53,920
crap out of each other every moment of the day.

363
00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:55,839
And so as soon as that bell rang, all that

364
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,720
tenth up aggression came out. But you were there, as

365
00:17:58,759 --> 00:18:01,839
it's even now, on fight weekday before or two days

366
00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,920
before the fight, did you think this is what was

367
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:05,400
going to happen? You know?

368
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 3: I attended a couple of those press conferences during that

369
00:18:10,039 --> 00:18:14,440
press tour and many times later, and of course we've

370
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,599
all had conversations with Marvin and Tommy afterwards. They attested

371
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,880
the fact that during that and I was there to

372
00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:25,400
see it, and I saw one of the press conferences

373
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,440
earlier in the press conference tour and one later, so

374
00:18:28,599 --> 00:18:32,920
it was an interesting flavor as the tour went on. Yes,

375
00:18:33,759 --> 00:18:37,759
their annoyance with each other was palpable, you know, obviously,

376
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,200
and you know they wanted to rip each other's head off.

377
00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:45,279
So the idea was I think most of us felt

378
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,480
it would be faster paced at the beginning than maybe

379
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:54,119
other fights they had had. You know, Marvin Heckler was

380
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,799
known to be a ring technician early in fights where

381
00:18:57,799 --> 00:18:59,920
we might even see him switching from lefty to right

382
00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:04,680
and just you know, being getting his bearings. Tommy Hearns,

383
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,200
of course, was a super boxer as well as a

384
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,799
big puncher, so I don't think anyone expected that. But

385
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,440
I do think the general consensus among all of us

386
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,960
and everybody kind of covering it was this might be

387
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:20,960
a little quicker start than normal. Obviously that was a.

388
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 1: Well and to your point, Ray Leonard says on his

389
00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:30,079
call thirty seconds in with Barry Tompkins, I expected this, Barry, really,

390
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,240
he really believed they were going to go right at it.

391
00:19:33,279 --> 00:19:35,079
I want to tee you up and queue you with

392
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,079
something you told me before the Great al Bernstein's hanging

393
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,960
here with us on the Big Fight Weekend podcast series.

394
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,559
Here talking about the fortieth anniversary of Hagler, hearns, you

395
00:19:43,599 --> 00:19:46,119
said you did something that night for the first time

396
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,720
that you've now done many times, which as the fighters

397
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,480
were coming to the ring, you took your headphones off

398
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:55,680
to soak it in and to enhance you being able

399
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:57,839
to describe what was happening. Pick it up on that

400
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:58,960
point on why you did that.

401
00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:03,440
Speaker 3: If I did you know about a half hour before,

402
00:20:03,559 --> 00:20:06,559
forty minutes before whatever, or no, maybe it was when

403
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:08,279
I think we had a little break when there was

404
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,720
a piece wanting and Bruce Tramplin was right there, and

405
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,200
I said to him, I said, you know, does this

406
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:17,359
crowd seem it was the outdoor stadium but Siezu's palace right,

407
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,279
so the sound got diffused a little bit into the air.

408
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,720
But I said to Bruce, I said, is this crowd

409
00:20:23,839 --> 00:20:28,559
more subdued or it felt almost subdued? And he said, yeah,

410
00:20:28,559 --> 00:20:30,559
it feels ot And I think we both then kind

411
00:20:30,599 --> 00:20:33,640
of thought, we kind of came to the consensus that

412
00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:36,920
it wasn't that they were subdued. They were so intent

413
00:20:37,039 --> 00:20:41,000
on what was about to happen. They were just concentrated,

414
00:20:41,559 --> 00:20:46,480
and then when the fighters came out to their walk ins,

415
00:20:46,839 --> 00:20:50,240
the crowd was judged. You could feel the electricity and

416
00:20:50,319 --> 00:20:53,920
so during the walk ins, and right at that moment

417
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,039
just before, I guess I was so taken with being

418
00:20:57,079 --> 00:21:01,079
there too, which was you know. I remember thinking consciously

419
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,400
to myself, you are the luckiest human on the planet

420
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,000
to be sitting in this chair. It just was, you know.

421
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,720
And that's when I took my headphones off for a moment,

422
00:21:09,759 --> 00:21:13,680
which producers don't like you to do, and I wanted

423
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,000
to feel the atmosphere. I said, I want to feel

424
00:21:16,039 --> 00:21:19,759
like what I don't want to be removed for a moment,

425
00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:24,279
and it was extraordinary and it became a ritual for

426
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:28,200
me over the last forty years that in almost every

427
00:21:28,319 --> 00:21:31,240
fight that I do, I do exactly the same thing.

428
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 2: I'm so glad you just said that now, because I

429
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,640
have to tell you I've been covering fights at ringside

430
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,039
for twenty five years, and one thing I have always

431
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:40,079
done because like you, I always appreciate the fact that

432
00:21:40,079 --> 00:21:44,640
I'm there, and I've done this for small club fights.

433
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,720
I've been at all the way to the biggest fights

434
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,839
in the world. You know, Mayweather, pac yaw My Tyson fights,

435
00:21:49,839 --> 00:21:53,759
Canelo fights, Oscar fights, whatever is when they're coming into

436
00:21:53,799 --> 00:21:56,359
the ring or when they're doing the anthems, there's some

437
00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,079
moment before the fight starts. I've always sort of just

438
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,279
taking a moment, looked around at the crowd and just

439
00:22:04,279 --> 00:22:06,319
sort of like try to put it in my brain

440
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,000
so I remember it. I've done that for as long

441
00:22:09,039 --> 00:22:09,720
as I've been doing this.

442
00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's something about it that you don't

443
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:17,240
want to feel disconnected from the from the the setting

444
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,039
you're in. You don't want it to envelop you. So

445
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,680
you can take a step back and still you know,

446
00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:26,200
be doing your job, not be fan like, but you

447
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,079
do want to feel it.

448
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,039
Speaker 2: So when the fight's happening, I'm curious because you know,

449
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,039
we talked about the chaos of the first round that

450
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,480
they came out and as as TJ brought up what

451
00:22:34,599 --> 00:22:36,359
Ray Leonard said, they're going to come out fast, but

452
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,359
he also at one point said, you know they're going

453
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,920
to settle down and in the second round and box more,

454
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,920
which is who knew that didn't happen, right, Maybe compared

455
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,720
to the first round they did a little bit, yet

456
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,640
not in general. But what I was wondering is, you know,

457
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:50,880
and now it's sort of known that that when Tommy

458
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,599
landed the big right hand on Hagler on that big

459
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,400
head of his, you know that he broke his hand,

460
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,960
but you didn't really know that in the second round

461
00:22:57,960 --> 00:22:59,599
and the third round how he's throwing it. So I'm

462
00:22:59,599 --> 00:23:01,839
wondering for your vantage points sitting ringside and watching how

463
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,880
this is going. Did anybody in your in the truck

464
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,880
you al Michaels, anybody sort of feel like are have

465
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:09,440
an inkling that his hand is broken?

466
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 3: Not really can you hit on it?

467
00:23:12,319 --> 00:23:12,519
Speaker 2: Dan?

468
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 3: He kept throwing the punch, Yeah, and kept throwing it well,

469
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:22,200
and so it didn't look like a one handed fighter.

470
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,880
And so we didn't know that that that was the case.

471
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:28,079
And and to buttress that, and I don't want to

472
00:23:28,079 --> 00:23:31,079
get ahead of you guys, but but it wasn't like

473
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,599
Tommy Hearns had a terrible second round either. People have

474
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,519
a misnomer in their in their brain that oh, after

475
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,319
round one, you know hagleron dim no oh, copy box

476
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:43,440
numbers and everything will show you that round two. Tommy

477
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,000
Herns is very competitive still, And part of it was

478
00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:48,759
he was still throwing the right hand, So no, we

479
00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:49,319
didn't know that.

480
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was using the reach, he was using the jab.

481
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:53,319
I I go back to that.

482
00:23:53,599 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 3: I don't think any other broadcast anybody conjectured about it,

483
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:57,519
did they?

484
00:23:57,559 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 2: Okay?

485
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: I think I think he kind of whispered it. Maybe

486
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,160
Emmanuel Stewart, you could. You didn't pick it up on

487
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,680
the micro and the microphones that were in the corner,

488
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,640
but he he clearly was on the bicycle, landing the jab,

489
00:24:08,759 --> 00:24:10,640
landing the right hand. In the second round, the fight

490
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,000
kind of settled in. I want to go back to

491
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:15,079
the very beginning, as Dan let in. You're in mid

492
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,759
sentence and Hearns landed that lethal right that put so

493
00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:22,680
many people out, and it actually stunned Marvin Hagler from

494
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:26,000
coming in, and you stopped yourself and you said, oh, Mark,

495
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,960
that that hurt Marvin right away. Forty years later, do

496
00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:33,480
you still see that moment? Do you still remember that

497
00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:37,519
moment at Holy Cow? He just stopped Hagler from coming forward,

498
00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:38,359
and it's on now.

499
00:24:39,079 --> 00:24:43,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, And and I discussed that with Marvin Hagler and

500
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,759
he said to me, on a couple of immifications, that's

501
00:24:46,759 --> 00:24:50,160
the hardest he's ever been hit, you know. And and

502
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,839
let's remember, you know, after that he had a war

503
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:58,319
with Chian Debist from Gabby and mcgabby was a huge puncher,

504
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,519
but he said that was the hardest he'd ever been hit,

505
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,960
and he was momentarily stunned, never in danger going down

506
00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:09,440
or anything, but clearly, and think about it, that came

507
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,839
seconds into the fight, you know, it wasn't And and

508
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,799
the other part about that, that's so fascinating. Oh, there's

509
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,079
there are three or four questions about this fight that

510
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,680
are fascinating and remain, you know, a topic that you

511
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,079
can think about. The first one is that what happens

512
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,400
if Tommy Hearns doesn't break his right hand? Is this

513
00:25:31,519 --> 00:25:36,039
fight different? I don't know, but that's one of the

514
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,839
lingering things that can be left in your mind from it.

515
00:25:39,319 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: Well, I am sure that you've been asked this before,

516
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:42,920
but I've never asked you this, you know. And all

517
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:46,039
the times we've chatted about different fights, and you've done

518
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:50,200
not only this fight, all those great showtime fights that

519
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,559
you broadcast, Vasquez Marquez fights and Corralis Castillo, when we

520
00:25:54,599 --> 00:25:57,240
could go on and on, do you when you make

521
00:25:57,319 --> 00:25:59,960
the al Bernstein list of your career of the best

522
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,799
fights you've ever been ringside? The call, where do you

523
00:26:02,839 --> 00:26:05,079
put Hagler versus Hearns.

524
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 3: I put it one, A, one B. I'm gonna say, uh,

525
00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:14,559
Number one is Castillo Corrales.

526
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 2: I'm so happy I said that because for me.

527
00:26:17,079 --> 00:26:20,799
Speaker 3: Is yeah, only because of course it didn't have quite

528
00:26:20,839 --> 00:26:24,559
the magnitude of despite but I and it's hard, you know,

529
00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:26,519
when you get you get that question, I'm sure all

530
00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:29,039
the time, and everybody does. It's hard to quantify because

531
00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:32,000
there's so many terrific fights that are exciting and well

532
00:26:32,039 --> 00:26:35,880
fought that we've covered and announced over the years. But

533
00:26:36,599 --> 00:26:41,559
the Castillo Corrales is number one because it's Hagler Hearns

534
00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:46,440
times three, and it had the dramatic ending that turned

535
00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:50,119
everything around with the two knockdowns of Corrales, the mouthpiece

536
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,759
going out, him being in a position where he was

537
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,519
never going to win a decision, then and in the

538
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,000
very same round out of nowhere turns it around and

539
00:26:59,039 --> 00:27:02,480
stops Castillo's So between the fact that it was nine

540
00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:05,920
rounds fuck just like the first two rounds of Hagler Hearns,

541
00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,519
and it had that amazing ending. To me that has

542
00:27:09,559 --> 00:27:12,000
to be number one, but this one is number two

543
00:27:12,079 --> 00:27:14,680
because of all the magnitude and everything else.

544
00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:20,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that the nine rounds in Carrals Castillo, it

545
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,119
was already an all time fight. In the tenth round

546
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,079
pretty much sent that over the top, it seemed to me.

547
00:27:24,839 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because it was. And the other thing about

548
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,839
it is with no disrespect to them, like Gotty Ward

549
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,799
was fantastic and great, but not fought quite.

550
00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:43,519
Speaker 2: I heard merit.

551
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,319
Speaker 1: Very good. All right, Just another moment or two here

552
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,200
with al Bernstein joining us to talk the fortieth anniversary

553
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,119
of Hagler hearns. Here's another one. How many times do

554
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,359
you think you've watched at least the first round at

555
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,519
this point forty years later? Would you put it at ten?

556
00:28:02,279 --> 00:28:06,200
My guess would be closer to fifty, because my hand

557
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,359
is up that it's at least fifty times I've read

558
00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:12,640
it's more. I'll more all of that first round? What

559
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,759
say you? You lived it? What say you?

560
00:28:15,519 --> 00:28:17,839
Speaker 3: I'm gonna guess I'm in the I might be in

561
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:23,000
the fifty range, forty to fifty something like that. And

562
00:28:23,079 --> 00:28:26,119
part of that is because sometimes, like I just wrote

563
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,079
a column for Ring magazine about it, right, that's in

564
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,400
this April issue. So that made me go back and

565
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,559
watch it once. And then when you watch it once,

566
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,880
it's hard to just watch it once, isn't it. So

567
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,559
two days later a story and starts. I'm gonna go

568
00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:41,359
back and you visit that one other thing that I

569
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,920
wanted to think about. And I watched it three times

570
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:48,319
just to do that article. So there's three times right there,

571
00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:52,400
and then other times when you're you know, you need

572
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,839
to look at it, and then other times when it'll

573
00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:57,359
pop up right you're watching something else pops up on

574
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,880
the right hand to the screen and you take a

575
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:04,000
look at it. And and so yeah, it's uh, you know,

576
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:06,319
it's a bunch of times, that's for sure.

577
00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:10,519
Speaker 1: And just one more, what should we know that maybe

578
00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:13,359
we don't know about the aftermath of that it's obviously

579
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,279
the pinnacle for Marvin Hagler to have won it. What

580
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,240
else should we know about that night that maybe we

581
00:29:20,319 --> 00:29:22,599
don't know about how great it was anything?

582
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:27,319
Speaker 3: Well, okay, here's one that to show what a great

583
00:29:27,359 --> 00:29:32,640
fight it was. My friend Gary Shandling, the late Gary Shandling,

584
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,400
who was opening for Joan Rivers at Caesar's Palace, a

585
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:41,319
person huge boxing fanily owned his own boxing gym, and uh,

586
00:29:41,359 --> 00:29:43,599
you know we loved the sport.

587
00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: Uh.

588
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 3: He came to see the fight but had to be

589
00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:53,200
back to open for Joan Rivers, and he told me

590
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,640
I only had time for a three round fight, and

591
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,319
that's what we got. He said, Look to me, it's

592
00:29:59,319 --> 00:30:01,079
the most perfect fight I've ever seen.

593
00:30:01,759 --> 00:30:03,799
Speaker 1: That is a great life. And I love Gary, I

594
00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:05,079
love Gary.

595
00:30:05,279 --> 00:30:07,839
Speaker 3: Garry Sailing says, it's perfect. I guess, I guess it's

596
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:08,680
the perfect.

597
00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:10,559
Speaker 1: Three in the window. Then he could go open up

598
00:30:10,559 --> 00:30:12,720
for Joan at the at the comedy.

599
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 2: I've been obsessed with.

600
00:30:13,599 --> 00:30:15,359
Speaker 3: He had to get back, so he was praying for.

601
00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:18,799
Speaker 2: I've been obsessed with these, with this fight in there

602
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,519
and the four Kings nine fights for most of my life.

603
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,480
That's a new one for me and never heard that.

604
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:25,480
That's all. Yeah.

605
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 3: I mean it's it's crazy. Yeah, yeah, no, it's wild.

606
00:30:29,559 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, And I think.

607
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 3: The to me that the the the aftermath is a

608
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,519
there's a couple of things about the aftermath for me. Okay,

609
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,559
one is and this doesn't get talked about, I don't

610
00:30:42,559 --> 00:30:46,480
think as much as it might. So let's think of

611
00:30:46,559 --> 00:30:50,079
the current day boxing scene. When a fighter suffers a

612
00:30:50,519 --> 00:30:56,200
dramatic defeat like that, right, a devastating one, And let's

613
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,519
go back there. Then Tommy Hearns not only picked himself

614
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:06,279
up off the canvas in a general sense, a literal sense,

615
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:08,880
in a general sense. Not only did he get back

616
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:14,839
on the horse, he crafted a phenomenal career after that,

617
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:19,160
didn't he yes, people out, winning championships, going up to

618
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,640
the light heavyweight division and upsetting Virgil Hill, winning a

619
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,920
rematch against l Array Leonard, even though they didn't give

620
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:31,960
him the decision. You know, that moment, that moment of

621
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:39,720
abject disappointment and losing didn't even come close to stopping him, right,

622
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,839
It didn't pause, It barely paused him. And I think

623
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:48,599
that's really an important thing to take from that, And

624
00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:51,839
of course from Robert Hagler, he was older than his

625
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:55,319
age was ever reported, so that was you know, and

626
00:31:55,359 --> 00:31:57,680
then he fought several more years and you know, of

627
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,920
course he had the great fight with mcgobby and very

628
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,839
close loss to Leonard, and Marvin at that point had

629
00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:08,640
already had a long career with those great fights early

630
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,440
in Philadelphia and everything, so he was really in the

631
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,680
twilight of where he was gonna be. But I mean

632
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,960
it was, so I think for the aftermath for Hearns,

633
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:21,720
it's one that we sometimes don't realize when you look back,

634
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,480
because when you look at that fight, that was a

635
00:32:24,599 --> 00:32:28,720
devastating loss, you know, and at the time, so you know,

636
00:32:28,759 --> 00:32:30,920
it's pretty amazing that he was able to pull himself

637
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,759
together and craft that career afterwards.

638
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody would have thought that Hagler would

639
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,079
go on as the winner to only fight two more

640
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,519
times in the next two years. And Tommy even though

641
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:43,200
he had some time off near the end of his career,

642
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,079
but ultimately fought twenty more years.

643
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 3: That right, that's pretty right. But both of those facts

644
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,240
are surprising. Yeah, that's a very good point.

645
00:32:51,319 --> 00:32:55,839
Speaker 1: Dan, and Hearn's won multiple world titles in multiple weight divisions.

646
00:32:55,960 --> 00:33:00,759
Moving up after that night, Listen, what a treat to

647
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,400
have you here. The phrase I love is forever linked.

648
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:08,039
He is forever linked with Hagler, Hearns and that night.

649
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,519
Al Bernstein, You're a treat on every occasion, but especially

650
00:33:12,599 --> 00:33:16,000
on something like this Hall of Famer on the air

651
00:33:16,119 --> 00:33:18,279
and off the air. Much thanks from Dan and me

652
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,599
for hanging talking the fortieth anniversary. Dan, was this any

653
00:33:21,599 --> 00:33:23,599
good with Al Bernstein? Was good.

654
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: This is pretty good. Maybe not as good as the

655
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:26,759
fight itself, but it was pretty good.

656
00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:29,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, not as Yeah, the fight itself was pretty un good.

657
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,880
So now I appreciate it was fun to be with

658
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,880
you guys, and uh, uh you want it's funny. I

659
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,200
forgot that this was until about a week ago when

660
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,680
I started seeing things pop up. I forgot about this

661
00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:43,440
being the fortieth anniversary of it. But hey, we're all

662
00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:47,319
still here and we're doing stuff with boxing, and uh

663
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:50,920
so that that also is a joy. So yeah, I

664
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,200
appreciate you guys having me on and this last couple

665
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,079
of days, I've had a lot of opportunities to think

666
00:33:57,119 --> 00:34:00,359
about this and uh and chat about it. And it's

667
00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:03,839
fun because it you know, it's a good memory. It's

668
00:34:03,839 --> 00:34:05,920
a you know, it's a it's a and even if

669
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,320
you're not even talking about Tommy, hearns even he when

670
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,280
he talks about this fight, he says it was an

671
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,119
honor to be a part of it, even though it

672
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,480
didn't go the way he wanted to. It's part of

673
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,119
boxing folklore and you can't ask for more than that.

674
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: Love it well, said al Bernstein. Thank you, my friend.

675
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:29,519
Take care guys, Okay, We follow up hearing from legendary

676
00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:33,440
analyst Al Bernstein with legendary play by play man hall

677
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,559
of famer the Barry Tompkins, who was on the call

678
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,800
forty years ago. Good Lord April fifteenth, nineteen eighty five

679
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,840
for the HBO broadcast with Ray Leonard and Larry Merchant

680
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:49,639
of Hagler Hearns and Barry Tompkins with us right here

681
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,519
as part of the Big Fight Weekend podcast series and

682
00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:55,639
our coverage. It is an honor to have you, I'm

683
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:58,199
joking on the video show. He's in purple for royalty

684
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:03,199
and rightfully show whether it should be. Thank you? And

685
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,519
when I say to you April fifteenth, nineteen eighty five,

686
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,119
what immediately comes to mind about what we saw that

687
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:14,360
night and what we've relived countless times since then, Bury, Well.

688
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,119
Speaker 5: One of the great fights ever, one of the great

689
00:35:16,159 --> 00:35:18,599
fights certainly that I had the pleasure of calling.

690
00:35:19,079 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 4: But that particular.

691
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 5: Round, and I'm almost certain, as I recall it, I

692
00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,280
said it somewhere during that first round was the greatest

693
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,599
prout of boxing I've ever seen.

694
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 4: I can't imagine one more exciting in the history.

695
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 5: And again, Dan, you know a lot more about the

696
00:35:33,039 --> 00:35:36,679
long history of boxing than I do. But it was

697
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,519
really it was really special, And of course every year

698
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,119
on this anniversary now it's a noteworthy one, being forty years,

699
00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:46,760
but every year I'm reminded about it. Every year it

700
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,159
shows up in social media and you can't get away

701
00:35:50,159 --> 00:35:51,840
from it even if you wanted to. But by no

702
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:52,519
means do I.

703
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,159
Speaker 1: Want to along those lines for a while after the fight.

704
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:58,039
In the eighties and the nineties, when you were working

705
00:35:58,079 --> 00:36:02,239
fights all the time, did you instantly daily all the time,

706
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:04,239
have people coming up to you to talk to you

707
00:36:04,519 --> 00:36:06,920
in particular about the first round, if not the Haggler

708
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,000
Herns fight, what about it?

709
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, certainly about that fight, and about the Haglow Letter

710
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:15,440
fight also and the other fight. And I think, Dan,

711
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,840
you and I've talked about this in the past. The

712
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,000
greatest fight that I ever did personally, just in terms

713
00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:24,800
of the caliber of fight was was Arguayo or prior.

714
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:27,559
You know, some people talk to me about that that

715
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:31,440
fight as well, But when it comes to specifics about

716
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,039
a certain portion of a certain fight, there's no question

717
00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:35,320
that that one laps the field.

718
00:36:36,119 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 2: Big Dan, go ahead, Yeah, Barry, I mean, you've done

719
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,800
so many fights for a variety of different outlets you

720
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,760
work for. Obviously, I think you're probably best known for

721
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,679
your stint with HBO, but you did fights for a

722
00:36:47,679 --> 00:36:50,000
lot of different outlets, you know, Showtime, and you know

723
00:36:50,039 --> 00:36:52,920
plenty of others as well. When you think of all

724
00:36:53,039 --> 00:36:54,519
the I don't know, it's probably very got to be

725
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:56,320
what thousands of fights you've called, I would imagine in

726
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,480
your career. Yeah, probably, I mean, and you mentioned about

727
00:37:00,519 --> 00:37:02,760
Argueyo and Prior, and that's a special fight also, but

728
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,920
like you said, it doesn't have uh, I don't think

729
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,239
it has the worldwide ultimate recognition by nonsport, by non

730
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:11,239
boxing fans, the way Haggler and Hearns does. But so

731
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,039
if you had to identify a singular fight, is it

732
00:37:14,159 --> 00:37:17,159
Arguayo Prior, is it Hagler Hearns into something else that

733
00:37:17,199 --> 00:37:19,880
we're not thinking about. Because you called so many tremendous

734
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:21,599
battles through the years, Well, you know the.

735
00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:25,639
Speaker 5: One Dan that that stands out to me was was

736
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,639
Hagler Leonard uh for you know one. I mean, to

737
00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:33,519
this day, and I'm sure this happens to you, people

738
00:37:33,559 --> 00:37:35,920
will say who won that fight? Who really won that fight?

739
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,320
To this day and how many years ago was that

740
00:37:38,519 --> 00:37:39,480
you know almost year.

741
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,079
Speaker 2: I asked, well, well, we'll deviate for a quick second.

742
00:37:42,119 --> 00:37:46,440
Off Hagler Hearns who won the fight won Leonard, Yes,

743
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:47,320
thank you, I agree.

744
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,679
Speaker 1: Good way we make it, We make it unanimous.

745
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: Back to uh the Hagler Herns zone.

746
00:37:53,039 --> 00:37:54,599
Speaker 4: We can talk about that. I know you want to

747
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:55,719
talk about the other fight here.

748
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,519
Speaker 5: There's there's a whole story that goes with that, with

749
00:37:59,559 --> 00:38:05,920
that fight that I've probably told before. But if we

750
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:07,599
wanted to get into that, we could talk about it.

751
00:38:07,639 --> 00:38:10,320
But sure, let's talk about what you guys want to talk.

752
00:38:10,199 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 1: About, no doubt. So when we talked with Al a

753
00:38:14,039 --> 00:38:18,199
little while ago about this, about the magnitude of this,

754
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:20,320
one of the things that the build up is these

755
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:23,920
two guys began to get more and more aggravated with

756
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,639
the press tour and with each other. And Ray Leonard says,

757
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,480
when the fireworks started in the first thirty seconds, I

758
00:38:31,639 --> 00:38:34,840
expected this, Barry, he says this to you. Did you

759
00:38:35,039 --> 00:38:37,239
have some kind of feeling they're going to go right

760
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,480
at each other or were you as surprised, maybe as

761
00:38:39,519 --> 00:38:42,320
the rest of us, at how violent it was right

762
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:43,159
away round one.

763
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,760
Speaker 5: I wasn't surprised, but I wasn't surprised for a different

764
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,360
reason than Ray wasn't surprised.

765
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 4: I really honestly didn't give her as.

766
00:38:51,119 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 5: Much of a chance in that fight, and I'm not

767
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,320
sure Hearns gave her as much of a chance in

768
00:38:55,400 --> 00:39:00,119
that fight. And I think he thought very much like

769
00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:06,480
like Spinks did with Tyson, you know that I'm gonna

770
00:39:06,559 --> 00:39:08,599
just put it all out there in the first three minutes.

771
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 4: Hope I can get him out of there, and if

772
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,679
I can't, I'm done, you know.

773
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,679
Speaker 5: I mean, obviously it's not a conscious feeling, but that

774
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,920
was really what I felt about Tommy Hearns. I really

775
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:23,440
felt somewhere inside of him he thought that was the

776
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:25,039
only way he was gonna win that fight was to

777
00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:26,480
get Haggar out of there right now.

778
00:39:27,639 --> 00:39:30,159
Speaker 2: Barry, when they made the match, and you know, obviously

779
00:39:30,199 --> 00:39:32,239
you're doing the blow by blow for HBO, and they're

780
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:35,079
going to be broadcasting this fight, and you have a

781
00:39:35,079 --> 00:39:37,480
couple a few months before the fight is going to

782
00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:40,239
actually happen. I'm curious what your mentality was in terms

783
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,159
of your own excitement level for the fight, because you know,

784
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,599
when fights get made, you always have a visceral reaction.

785
00:39:45,639 --> 00:39:48,239
Oh I love that fight. I can't wait. Some might be, oh,

786
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:49,960
you know, it's probably okay, But like in terms of

787
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,519
Hagler and Hearns, when you found out, okay, we're gonna

788
00:39:52,519 --> 00:39:54,840
be doing this match, what was your sort of excitement

789
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,000
level for the fight, not knowing that was going to

790
00:39:57,079 --> 00:39:59,000
be as legendary as it turned out to be.

791
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,159
Speaker 5: And I thought was gonna be a good fight. I mean,

792
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:02,360
you know, I thought it was going to be a

793
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,079
competitive fight. Although as I said, I I really in

794
00:40:06,119 --> 00:40:09,239
my own mind, I really didn't give her as much

795
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,559
of a chance in that fight, to be really honest

796
00:40:11,559 --> 00:40:15,000
with you, and I was a big frankly, I was

797
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,320
a big Marvin Hagler fan, just in terms of how

798
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,920
he prepared for fights and how he handled himself. And

799
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,840
I had a real fondness for him. He was a

800
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,920
guy that I liked outside the ring every bit as

801
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,079
much as I did as a professional fighter. You know,

802
00:40:30,119 --> 00:40:33,159
I spent some time with him up in Provincetown where

803
00:40:33,159 --> 00:40:36,880
he used to train, and I just liked the way

804
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,559
he went about his business. You know, I never thought

805
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:43,239
he ever showed up. And I've always said this about

806
00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:46,840
the very best fights, you can't be ninety eight percent.

807
00:40:47,039 --> 00:40:49,639
If you're ninety eight percent, you're going to lose at

808
00:40:49,679 --> 00:40:52,159
a fight of that level. And I never saw Marvin

809
00:40:52,159 --> 00:40:54,639
Hagler be less than a hundred percent. Now I'm not

810
00:40:54,679 --> 00:40:58,760
saying Tommy Hearns ever did, but just in how the

811
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:01,239
two prepared for the fight, not only that fight, all

812
00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,239
of their fights for that matter, I just saw a

813
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,239
big difference in Marvin Hagler Perry.

814
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 2: Was the reason that you said you didn't really give

815
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,960
Tommy much of a chance? Was it a matter of

816
00:41:10,079 --> 00:41:12,599
him having been in the smaller weight divisions and Marvin

817
00:41:12,599 --> 00:41:15,239
had been a dominating midaweight champion? Was it because you'd

818
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,000
seen Tommy get knocked out, like, for example, by Ray

819
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:20,599
Leonard as a welterweight. What was the reason that you

820
00:41:20,599 --> 00:41:22,079
thought that he wouldn't have a chance.

821
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:23,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, the former.

822
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 5: I just thought he was coming up to one sixty,

823
00:41:26,199 --> 00:41:29,039
and you know, he didn't have a ton of power.

824
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:31,639
You know, as even as a welterweight, he can get

825
00:41:31,679 --> 00:41:34,480
guys out of there for sure, but at one hundred

826
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,800
and sixty, I just didn't think he'd matched power with Hagler,

827
00:41:38,079 --> 00:41:41,800
you know, and Hagler you know, I Hagler was not

828
00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:43,239
a guy and I say, he's going to get you

829
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,880
out of there with one punch. But what I really

830
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,880
liked about Hagler is if you had your hurt, you're

831
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,480
gone and great finisher.

832
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 4: But it was mainly what you said, what you suggested.

833
00:41:54,519 --> 00:41:57,159
Speaker 5: It was mainly the fact that he was coming to

834
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,400
one sixty and I just thought that's a natural wait

835
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,199
for Hagler, and I wasn't sure it was a natural

836
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:03,880
wit for hers.

837
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: So when you see Marvin, you know in the end,

838
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,920
really I mean, the first round obviously super competitive, but

839
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,239
eventually it becomes a dominating, you know, pretty you know,

840
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,920
violent sort of knockout in the third round. And on

841
00:42:17,039 --> 00:42:18,719
that night when you're calling the fight and you think

842
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:21,320
to yourself, we just saw Marvin Hacklers score this incredible

843
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,519
knockout against another great fighter in Hearns. Even if you

844
00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:27,119
didn't think he'd necessarily had you a chance. What if

845
00:42:27,159 --> 00:42:29,159
I told you on that night that the guy that

846
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,480
won the fight, that knocked out Tommy Hearns in three

847
00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:33,599
rounds and did what he did was going to fight

848
00:42:33,639 --> 00:42:35,960
only two more times over the next two years or retire.

849
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,880
But the guy that got absolutely scorched is going to

850
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:40,719
go on and win multiple of titles and other weight

851
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,320
classes continue to move up and wait, do it at middleweight,

852
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,000
do it all the way up to light at heavyweight,

853
00:42:45,159 --> 00:42:47,719
and literally fight for another twenty years. What would you as.

854
00:42:47,679 --> 00:42:51,159
Speaker 5: Said to me, I would have got to do it.

855
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:56,599
And you know what, but I always respected your opinion.

856
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,559
You you know more about boxing than I do, and

857
00:42:58,599 --> 00:43:02,079
I've been around it for a long time. I always

858
00:43:02,079 --> 00:43:03,159
respected your opinion.

859
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:04,679
Speaker 4: And had you have.

860
00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:06,599
Speaker 5: Told me that, I would have said, oh, yeah, sure,

861
00:43:06,599 --> 00:43:08,599
of course, you know, you know, I wouldn't have believed it.

862
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:12,119
I you know, more than anything else, I was really

863
00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:16,599
surprised at Marvin. You know, Marvin was such a you know,

864
00:43:16,639 --> 00:43:19,400
he was such a sensitive guy, and I think when

865
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,800
he lost the Ray, he just lost everything.

866
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 4: He lost his persona.

867
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 2: You know, it was it because he lost, or because

868
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,800
of the fact that it was the way he lost

869
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:30,760
and it was so close, and people argued that he

870
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,239
won and he didn't get the call. In other words,

871
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:33,880
if he had been wiped out, that'd be one thing.

872
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,400
But to lose on a nail bier like that, is

873
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,280
that maybe the difference.

874
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that could have affected him.

875
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,199
Speaker 5: You know again, I never really sat down and talked

876
00:43:41,199 --> 00:43:42,800
to him about it, but and I don't know that

877
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:43,400
he would.

878
00:43:43,159 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 4: Talk about it, frankly, but yeah.

879
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,159
Speaker 5: I think, you know, his entire being, not just as

880
00:43:49,199 --> 00:43:52,000
being as a fighter, but a being as a human being.

881
00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:54,760
I think was tied up in that fight, you know.

882
00:43:55,039 --> 00:43:59,000
And and in his mind, I think he felt he

883
00:43:59,079 --> 00:44:02,760
was shamed. And I don't believe he was, you know.

884
00:44:03,039 --> 00:44:07,920
And I believe Ray stole the fight, but hey, that's

885
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,719
part of the sport, you know. And I think that's

886
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:12,719
how Ray wanted. I think he stole it, and that's

887
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,480
exactly what he told me he was going to do.

888
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,760
Speaker 4: Well. I'll tell you this brief backstory.

889
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 5: I was again, I really didn't want to get so

890
00:44:20,599 --> 00:44:22,599
much into that fight because we're talking about the other

891
00:44:23,159 --> 00:44:30,280
But when Duran fought Hagler, I fought Herns rather at

892
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:33,320
the end of the fight, I beg your pardon when

893
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:34,079
he fought Hagler.

894
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,119
Speaker 4: At the end of the fight, Duran came over.

895
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:37,760
Speaker 5: And stuck his head between the ropes who when Ray

896
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,800
and I was sitting and said to Ray, you can

897
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:40,519
beat this guy.

898
00:44:41,599 --> 00:44:44,079
Speaker 4: And I know that's when Ray said.

899
00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:47,079
Speaker 2: I never knew that Barry. I learned stuff from Al

900
00:44:47,119 --> 00:44:49,559
today that I never knew before. Now I'm here for you,

901
00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:51,880
you're saying to me. When the fight ended, even though

902
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:54,239
he lost that close fight to Haggard, Duran said to

903
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,880
Ray on the HBO broadcast.

904
00:44:56,880 --> 00:44:59,039
Speaker 4: On the broadcast, not on Mike, he came over.

905
00:45:00,199 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 2: Not not on that, not an interview, but like just came.

906
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,639
Speaker 5: Over, stuck his head between the ropes, leaned up and

907
00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:06,360
array and said, you can beat this guy.

908
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:07,639
Speaker 2: After he'd already fought Ray twice.

909
00:45:07,679 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, wow.

910
00:45:10,079 --> 00:45:12,119
Speaker 2: And so Ray, did you see a Ray reaction? Did

911
00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:12,599
he say anything?

912
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 4: I didn't.

913
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 5: But but the oddity is it was about I don't

914
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:20,360
really recall, but maybe three or four months after that

915
00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:23,480
we were doing it. It was a camacho fight in Florida,

916
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:25,599
and uh and.

917
00:45:25,519 --> 00:45:28,119
Speaker 4: Ray Ray called me. This is so Ray.

918
00:45:28,199 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 2: You know.

919
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 4: Ray called me up and said, I ranted this. I

920
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:31,480
rented a boat.

921
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 5: Let's we're gonna go out a lunch up on the

922
00:45:34,039 --> 00:45:37,360
you know, Inland waterway. And uh so he said, meet

923
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,480
me at such and such a doc. So I you know,

924
00:45:39,639 --> 00:45:41,480
I'm expecting ready to come up and you know, so

925
00:45:41,679 --> 00:45:44,360
you know, twenty footer. Of course he's got you know.

926
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 2: The Queen Mary.

927
00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:48,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, and he and I.

928
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 5: We were sitting up on the bow of the boat

929
00:45:51,199 --> 00:45:53,840
going up the Inland Waterway and Ray Ray just out

930
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:54,719
of the blue said.

931
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 4: You know how to beat Marvin Hagler. Here's how you

932
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:58,800
beat Marvin Hagler.

933
00:45:59,159 --> 00:46:02,119
Speaker 5: And he said, you got to fight three times around

934
00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:05,840
for fifteen seconds every round, and you got to finish

935
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:09,199
the final fifteen seconds of the round and look impressive.

936
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,760
And it was two years later. I think a year

937
00:46:13,599 --> 00:46:14,599
that's how we want to fight.

938
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:21,159
Speaker 2: So how have we had a million interviews, documentaries, stories

939
00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:23,199
in depth pieces And this is the first time I

940
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:25,159
ever heard this, And I, like I said to TJ

941
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,679
a million times, I've been obsessed with these fights for

942
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:28,199
my old.

943
00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 1: Life exactly because you got to get Barry Tompkins, the

944
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,119
King in the Purple, to come tell the Sport about

945
00:46:32,159 --> 00:46:34,159
being on the yacht with with Ray Leonard.

946
00:46:34,679 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know the you know, the answer to the

947
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:38,719
question is nobody ever asked.

948
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: The go go another thing. So along those lines, we

949
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:46,280
need to recreate for people that Ray had retired for

950
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:51,000
a second time, basically in and around Haggler, hearns and

951
00:46:51,079 --> 00:46:53,920
so that made an interesting backdrop that he's your analyst

952
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,880
along with Larry merchant involved in the fight when Marvin

953
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,159
so much wanted to fight Sugar, Ray Leonard and Hearns

954
00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:05,119
at that time wanted a rematch obviously with Sugar Ray

955
00:47:05,199 --> 00:47:08,039
Leonard having lost to him. What about that aspect from

956
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:11,239
what you remember, that aspect of Ray still being a

957
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,320
big chess piece for both Hagler and Hearns leading to

958
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:15,840
their fight.

959
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 4: You know, Ray was a guy.

960
00:47:17,559 --> 00:47:22,119
Speaker 5: Who kind of he he liked to, you know, conquer bridges,

961
00:47:22,239 --> 00:47:27,079
you know, and he done that already with Tommy Hearns.

962
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,920
You know, I think he felt Hearns is that's why

963
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,000
I already did that. I took care of that business,

964
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:37,000
you know, and I don't need him anymore. You know,

965
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,880
he needs me, but I don't need him.

966
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,039
Speaker 2: They can make a lot of money together, though, well

967
00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:42,440
I could.

968
00:47:42,559 --> 00:47:45,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, But I think Ray always wanted a piece of Haggler,

969
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,519
I really do. I think he always wanted that. And

970
00:47:48,559 --> 00:47:50,360
you know, there was a time where they were friends.

971
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,320
I remember when Ray opened he had a seafood restaurant

972
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:56,599
in Baltimore for a a short time, and when he

973
00:47:56,639 --> 00:47:59,199
opened the restaurant, Marvin came to the opening, you know,

974
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,119
and they were they were I mean, they weren't you know,

975
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,119
how you doing Marv kind of friends, you know, but

976
00:48:06,199 --> 00:48:07,480
they were friends, you know.

977
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:12,599
Speaker 4: And I think Ray in sol I don't remember what happened.

978
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 5: That night, but Ray didn't really acknowledge that Marvin had

979
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,320
gone out of his way, you know, to come to

980
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:21,559
this thing for Ray, and Ray kind of distant, you know,

981
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,960
And I think that's really what drew that spark of

982
00:48:27,079 --> 00:48:29,960
Ray saying I think I want to I think I

983
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:30,800
want to take care of this.

984
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,840
Speaker 4: But it was more than anything else, Believe me, it.

985
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,639
Speaker 1: Was durant interesting, Duran saying you could beat him. Man.

986
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,519
Speaker 2: Did you ever get a sense, you know, because you

987
00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:44,440
guys had done Marvin's fights, done Hearn's fights before. And

988
00:48:44,559 --> 00:48:46,679
I'm not talking about just because there was, you know,

989
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,320
that sort of irritation with each other leading up to

990
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,760
the fight, because they were in front of each other

991
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,079
getting ready to fight each other. But other than that,

992
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,280
what was your sense of the relationship that Marvin and

993
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,960
Tommy had outside of just that fight taking place?

994
00:49:00,679 --> 00:49:04,199
Speaker 5: Marvin and Tommy, Yeah, I don't. I don't really know

995
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,480
that they had a relationship. I mean, maybe they did.

996
00:49:06,519 --> 00:49:08,280
If they did, I don't really know about it.

997
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,039
Speaker 4: They were such different.

998
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 2: Guys, much different, you know.

999
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:14,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that that's one of the things I

1000
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,400
really liked in But I can't when I say that

1001
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,000
about Marvin, how much I liked him. I'm not trying

1002
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,079
to say anything bad about Tommy Hearns. But Tommy was

1003
00:49:23,079 --> 00:49:26,199
a never guy. It was all professional with Tommy, you know,

1004
00:49:26,559 --> 00:49:31,519
whereas Marvin. You know, I remember I remember going for

1005
00:49:31,599 --> 00:49:36,400
a run with Marvin in Provincetown on one of his

1006
00:49:36,519 --> 00:49:39,719
morning you know runs, and and at that time it

1007
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,480
was in the winter time, so the town wasn't really alive,

1008
00:49:42,679 --> 00:49:45,880
you know, like it normally is. But you know, Provincetown

1009
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,559
is a very big gay population. In Provincetown, there's a

1010
00:49:49,599 --> 00:49:55,320
fishing fisherman population, Portuguese fishermen, uh there, and and everybody

1011
00:49:55,360 --> 00:50:00,000
in that town loved Marvin, you know. And I remember

1012
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:01,840
on that run, you know, we ran down through the

1013
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:05,119
main street of town and people would come out of scores,

1014
00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:08,760
you know, and out of there's a hairdresser game him Marvin,

1015
00:50:09,119 --> 00:50:10,440
you know, and Marven Wood talk.

1016
00:50:10,559 --> 00:50:13,280
Speaker 4: You know, I knew him by name, you know, the

1017
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:16,400
little old ladies from the market, you know, come out,

1018
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,039
I'm Marvin, marbar Rooks. And then and then he ended

1019
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:20,599
the run.

1020
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,079
Speaker 5: By going on board one of the fishing boats and

1021
00:50:23,119 --> 00:50:26,840
having coffee with the Portuguese fisherman. You know, so he

1022
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,679
just he cut right through you know, everybody. You know

1023
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:34,199
he was he was just a good guy. You know,

1024
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,360
I would have liked I would have liked Marvin Hagler

1025
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,199
if he was you know, Don Matthew was a fishmonger.

1026
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,119
Speaker 2: You know. After he won the fight, and even though

1027
00:50:42,119 --> 00:50:43,480
you know, maybe he doesn't know it at the time,

1028
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:45,000
but he's not going to be around and as a

1029
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:47,719
professional boxer for a much longer. He'd been fighting for

1030
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:50,199
such a long time. The Herns fight and that victory

1031
00:50:50,199 --> 00:50:52,480
and the way it happened, that's what really put him

1032
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,800
into the mainstream. He started getting the commercial endorsements. He's

1033
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:59,039
doing commercials, you know, for you know, the deodor end

1034
00:50:59,079 --> 00:51:01,199
He's doing all kinds of different things. Did you get

1035
00:51:01,199 --> 00:51:03,559
a feeling at any point when you spoke to him

1036
00:51:03,559 --> 00:51:06,519
after the fight that he felt like I made it,

1037
00:51:06,559 --> 00:51:08,159
even though he'd been champed for a long time and

1038
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,920
been this great fighter. But now he's crossed over and

1039
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,400
he's got the admiration and the respect, I think most

1040
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,239
importantly from everybody yeah.

1041
00:51:16,039 --> 00:51:18,119
Speaker 5: And respect was a big thing for him. You know,

1042
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:20,760
it really was that that's what he wanted. He wanted

1043
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:26,199
it from Ray. You know, yeah, I I do. I

1044
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:30,280
think that fight obviously, you know, people in boxing knew

1045
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,880
about Marvin Hagler and how good he was, but I

1046
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:39,719
don't think you know, Joe Sixpack necessarily knew about Marvin Hagler,

1047
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:41,119
you know until that fight.

1048
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 2: Now that he's going on the Tonight Show, when he's

1049
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:44,639
making appearances and.

1050
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:47,679
Speaker 5: Right, and because he got cut so badly, and you know,

1051
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:50,000
it really looked for all the world like he was

1052
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:52,400
not gonna not going to even finish the fight.

1053
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 4: Littlone win the fight, you know.

1054
00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:59,199
Speaker 5: And and I think that you know, that affected a

1055
00:51:59,199 --> 00:52:02,400
lot of people who are not necessarily hardcore boxing fans,

1056
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:04,599
you know, all of a sudden, he was he was

1057
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,599
a personality, you know, and respect, Like I said, I

1058
00:52:08,639 --> 00:52:09,400
think respect for.

1059
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,480
Speaker 4: Him was really it was really an important thing. I mean,

1060
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,800
he was a guy. Again, I got to know him

1061
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,400
so well. He was a guy that.

1062
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:24,079
Speaker 5: I remember one time he and his then wife they

1063
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:25,960
went on they got a camper and they went on

1064
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,440
a camping trip for like four months and just drove

1065
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:32,719
around the country and running these little you know, RV.

1066
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 4: Lots or I don't even know what. I'm not a camper,

1067
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:36,199
so I don't really know.

1068
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 5: But you know, we're just you know, Middle America goes,

1069
00:52:40,599 --> 00:52:42,119
you know, and uh.

1070
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,559
Speaker 4: And he came back and it was the greatest trip

1071
00:52:44,599 --> 00:52:46,480
he'd ever made his life, and at that time he

1072
00:52:46,559 --> 00:52:49,440
traveled as a fighter, greatest trip he ever made his life.

1073
00:52:49,519 --> 00:52:50,599
Just pressing the flesh.

1074
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 5: With people, going fishing with people, hanging out with you know,

1075
00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:58,079
Joe Sixpack, you know, just a guy, you know.

1076
00:52:59,079 --> 00:52:59,199
Speaker 3: Uh.

1077
00:52:59,639 --> 00:53:01,440
Speaker 4: And I really admired that about Mormon.

1078
00:53:01,599 --> 00:53:05,559
Speaker 5: I really did, you know, he he he wasn't necessarily

1079
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:11,320
interested in the limelight. He wasn't necessarily interested. I believe

1080
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:13,360
this is true even in money. You don't obviously wanted

1081
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:15,639
to make as much as he could, and he understood

1082
00:53:15,639 --> 00:53:20,079
that that sport is short lived, you know, but it

1083
00:53:20,159 --> 00:53:20,920
wasn't the.

1084
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 2: Thing to him, you know, mane of the people.

1085
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 5: He was absolutely one hundred percent man of the people.

1086
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:29,920
And I did his fight in San Remo when he

1087
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:34,079
was really embraced by the Italians, you know, And I'm

1088
00:53:34,079 --> 00:53:36,719
sure that had something to do with his living there afterwards,

1089
00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:37,920
marrying an Italian woman.

1090
00:53:39,039 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 1: All right, let's bring it back to the opening round,

1091
00:53:42,039 --> 00:53:44,800
and you know, and you know where I'm coming where?

1092
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:48,239
All right? So, first of all, Hagler in the first

1093
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:52,159
thirty seconds is initiating things and hearns pops him with

1094
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,719
that big right hand. What do you remember some four

1095
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,400
decades later about that moment where he didn't drop him,

1096
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,599
but he definitely stopped him in his tracks and stunned him. What,

1097
00:54:02,639 --> 00:54:04,880
if anything, do you remember about that that he didn't

1098
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:05,440
drop him?

1099
00:54:06,159 --> 00:54:09,039
Speaker 5: You know, that punch I think probably would have dropped

1100
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,760
most guys, even at one hundred and sixty pounds, but

1101
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:16,000
Marvin had a beard, you know, Marvin. Marvin didn't get

1102
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:20,719
cuffed around very much, you know. And really that's what

1103
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,599
I remember more than more than anything else. And he

1104
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,960
you know, I mean, the great fighters are able to

1105
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,480
do that. You know. Again talking about Ray because I

1106
00:54:29,519 --> 00:54:32,159
know him so well in his fight with Marvin.

1107
00:54:32,679 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 4: There's another thing, Dan, you again, you probably heard this story,

1108
00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:38,639
but Ray told me I don't remember what round it was.

1109
00:54:38,639 --> 00:54:39,800
Speaker 5: I want to say it was like in the fifth

1110
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,800
round that Marvin popped him and heard him, you know,

1111
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,960
And Ray said that just it was subconscious but instead

1112
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,599
of thinking a backward step. He took a forward step

1113
00:54:49,599 --> 00:54:52,519
and threw another punch. It wasn't a big punch, but

1114
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,480
Marvin never knew he heard him, you know. And I

1115
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,119
think that's kind of analogous to what you're talking about

1116
00:54:58,519 --> 00:55:02,440
to when Hearn's hit Haggler, you know, Haggler. I don't

1117
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:05,760
remember taking a backward step, even though he just clocked.

1118
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 2: It, and it probably didn't help by the way that

1119
00:55:08,639 --> 00:55:10,559
you know that it appeared as though we found out

1120
00:55:10,639 --> 00:55:14,639
later that Timmy had broken the hand, and yeah, he

1121
00:55:14,679 --> 00:55:17,320
continued to use it, but it wasn't as effective, right.

1122
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,159
I think that did you get the sense that maybe

1123
00:55:19,199 --> 00:55:20,760
you didn't know that the hand was broken, but after

1124
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,199
he took the right hand, and Marvin really didn't budge

1125
00:55:23,639 --> 00:55:26,119
that in Tommy's might like, oh shoot, I mean, if

1126
00:55:26,119 --> 00:55:27,440
I can't get him out of it with my best

1127
00:55:27,519 --> 00:55:30,760
right hand, I'm in for either a long night or

1128
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:31,400
a short night.

1129
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:33,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think, you know, like I said, I think

1130
00:55:33,639 --> 00:55:35,920
the whole thing, Tommy Herds was going to go out

1131
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,119
on a shield, and I think he did it in

1132
00:55:39,159 --> 00:55:40,440
that in the first three minutes.

1133
00:55:40,639 --> 00:55:42,519
Speaker 4: I mean, I remember having a conversation.

1134
00:55:42,679 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 5: I don't remember if I was on talk back with

1135
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:47,280
the truck or if I was talking to I don't

1136
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:51,239
remember who I was talking to, but saying it's over

1137
00:55:51,360 --> 00:55:53,920
after the first after the first three minutes, you know,

1138
00:55:54,039 --> 00:55:55,280
I'm sorry, my dog.

1139
00:55:55,199 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 1: Is okay, that's allowed to make an appearance. There we go.

1140
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:02,920
You believed it was done. You believed Hagler had the

1141
00:56:03,039 --> 00:56:04,760
name after three minutes, and you were saying that to

1142
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:06,280
the HBO people in the truck.

1143
00:56:06,119 --> 00:56:07,760
Speaker 5: Is what you're saying after the first round? I did,

1144
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:11,519
so did Ray. We thought, yeah, I did.

1145
00:56:11,679 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 2: All right.

1146
00:56:12,039 --> 00:56:13,760
Speaker 1: So to go back to the middle of that first

1147
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:17,440
round and you know where I'm coming. You finally spoke

1148
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:21,239
for all of us where it's like it occurred to you.

1149
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,559
I need to say, this is still the first round

1150
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:30,519
and it resonates forty years later again. I think that.

1151
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,320
I mean, if you had to sum up Hagler, hearns

1152
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:35,159
that phrase, sums it up the way that they beat

1153
00:56:35,199 --> 00:56:36,920
on each other a minute and a half, two minutes

1154
00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:39,880
in the first round, they're still waylaying on each other. Right,

1155
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:42,440
did you take a pause at the end of that

1156
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,519
first round and go, Wow, what did I just witness?

1157
00:56:44,639 --> 00:56:45,440
For a half a second?

1158
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:49,599
Speaker 5: Absolutely, because you know when when the bell sounds my

1159
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:53,000
eyelighter because Larry was like the analyst and he would

1160
00:56:53,039 --> 00:56:56,079
talk between rounds, so as soon as the bell sound

1161
00:56:56,079 --> 00:56:56,719
that I.

1162
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 4: Didn't have to say anything.

1163
00:56:58,559 --> 00:57:00,960
Speaker 5: But I'm glad I didn't have to say it, you know,

1164
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,519
because it was one of those yeah around you know,

1165
00:57:04,639 --> 00:57:06,159
you don't have a lot of that. You know, there's

1166
00:57:06,199 --> 00:57:09,360
not a lot of And again it's and any any

1167
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,119
broadcaster will tell you this, those are things you can't plan,

1168
00:57:13,679 --> 00:57:16,760
you know, you can. I've never once said, and I'm

1169
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:18,920
sure if you talk to lamps or talk to anybody

1170
00:57:19,079 --> 00:57:23,920
who's done this for any period of time, it's just spontaneous.

1171
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,639
It's just what you're feeling at the time. And you know,

1172
00:57:27,079 --> 00:57:29,079
sometimes you get them right and sometimes you don't.

1173
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,199
Speaker 2: You had so many great calls and all the fights

1174
00:57:32,239 --> 00:57:34,280
you've done. I mean I could sit here and cite them,

1175
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:37,679
chapter and verse, ones from yourself, ones from other great broadcasters.

1176
00:57:37,679 --> 00:57:40,719
Also when you think of the things that you did,

1177
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:45,519
call to me, there's a few famous Barry Tompkins calls

1178
00:57:46,199 --> 00:57:49,159
that to me is the number one evolving and you

1179
00:57:49,199 --> 00:57:51,119
had obviously, you know, how do you like it with

1180
00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,679
Marvin against ray Leander? And there was others, what's the

1181
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:56,519
number one on your own list? Because you're the guy

1182
00:57:56,559 --> 00:57:57,000
that said it.

1183
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,679
Speaker 4: You know, it's funny. I I walk out of a

1184
00:58:01,719 --> 00:58:05,320
booth or away from a table, and it's history for me,

1185
00:58:06,119 --> 00:58:07,719
you know, And I really mean it.

1186
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 5: And I think one of the reasons is I didn't

1187
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,639
only do boxing, you know. I always did football, always

1188
00:58:12,679 --> 00:58:14,760
in basketball. As a tennis guy for a while, I did,

1189
00:58:15,039 --> 00:58:17,159
you know, did the Tour de France.

1190
00:58:17,239 --> 00:58:19,159
Speaker 4: I did track and field, and you know.

1191
00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 5: So, and inevitably, within a week of whatever I happen

1192
00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,199
to be doing for HBO, I have something else, you know,

1193
00:58:27,639 --> 00:58:31,199
And so I never could take like I couldn't take

1194
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:35,960
the Hearns Hagler fight with me into a basketball game,

1195
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:36,280
you know that.

1196
00:58:36,559 --> 00:58:38,280
Speaker 2: Does anybody call up to you forty years later and

1197
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,039
give you a line from one of your basketball games?

1198
00:58:42,079 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: That's a good question.

1199
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:44,800
Speaker 2: No, I mean, how, by the way, not to say

1200
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:46,079
that you didn't call the basketball game.

1201
00:58:46,199 --> 00:58:48,679
Speaker 4: No, no, no, not that, not that I can recall.

1202
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 1: But in your mind, I appreciate it. As a broadcaster,

1203
00:58:53,360 --> 00:58:55,320
I appreciate this. In your mind, you have to go

1204
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:57,480
on to the next thing, and then the next thing,

1205
00:58:57,559 --> 00:58:59,519
and then the next thing. I understand what you're saying.

1206
00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 4: Right, I mean, and and I don't.

1207
00:59:02,119 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 5: I mean, I remember that, you know, saying one of

1208
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:06,920
the greatest grounds because it was something I really felt.

1209
00:59:07,199 --> 00:59:11,400
But and the the one that you mentioned in the

1210
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:13,079
in the Leonard Hagler.

1211
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:14,960
Speaker 1: Fight, how do you like it?

1212
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 5: Somebody had to remind me. I don't remember ever saying that,

1213
00:59:18,199 --> 00:59:21,960
you know, I don't. I don't, And somebody reminded me that.

1214
00:59:22,039 --> 00:59:22,320
Speaker 2: All right.

1215
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: So along these same lines, you you did the delayed broadcast,

1216
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,440
did you say to everybody, and even for yourself, I

1217
00:59:29,559 --> 00:59:31,559
we have got to watch this together. Do you remember

1218
00:59:31,599 --> 00:59:33,360
who you watched it with? For the for the first

1219
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:37,079
showing where you watched it where I can see this

1220
00:59:37,159 --> 00:59:38,880
back the replay?

1221
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:43,119
Speaker 4: I thought it was like a right all and I

1222
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:44,840
have talked about that. I don't remember. He did the

1223
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,079
live shows while.

1224
00:59:47,239 --> 00:59:49,559
Speaker 2: You were doing HBO, which was going to be replayed

1225
00:59:49,639 --> 00:59:52,199
one week later. But but Al Bernstein and L. Michael's

1226
00:59:52,199 --> 00:59:53,119
were doing the live.

1227
00:59:55,599 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 4: That's right. You used to do shows where ABC had

1228
00:59:58,760 --> 00:59:59,880
the replay and we had.

1229
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:04,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, So how many times would you guess

1230
01:00:04,599 --> 01:00:06,119
you have to have seen it a few? How many

1231
01:00:06,119 --> 01:00:08,440
times would you say that you've rewatched Tagler Herns if

1232
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:12,639
not just the first round, Dan, I confess it's dozens

1233
01:00:12,639 --> 01:00:13,880
for us, But what about for you?

1234
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1235
01:00:14,679 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 5: I know, I well, I almost have to watch it

1236
01:00:18,039 --> 01:00:20,800
every year, you know, because it's all over social media.

1237
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:21,119
Speaker 2: You know.

1238
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 5: I've watched it a few times after, you know, after

1239
01:00:26,519 --> 01:00:27,119
it happened.

1240
01:00:27,159 --> 01:00:30,599
Speaker 4: But you know, I honestly, I've never been one of those.

1241
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,000
Boy that was great. I want to watch it again,

1242
01:00:33,159 --> 01:00:35,840
you know, of my own stuff.

1243
01:00:35,599 --> 01:00:39,159
Speaker 1: I understand, But the version of it, yeah, you can

1244
01:00:39,199 --> 01:00:40,480
also watch the other watch the.

1245
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 6: Close circuit version, yes, yeah, but with with the magnitude

1246
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,400
of that first round, I mean, I'm still amazed every

1247
01:00:51,519 --> 01:00:52,840
time I watch it.

1248
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:56,840
Speaker 1: They forget about the call, just the violence of those

1249
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,400
two guys. Does it still amaze you that you were

1250
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,599
part of that? Hell yeah? And the volume either and

1251
01:01:01,679 --> 01:01:04,119
neither guy went down with the what one hundred and

1252
01:01:04,119 --> 01:01:06,440
fifty or two hundred punches that were landed. It seemed

1253
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:09,239
like in that round, neither guy went downbury There was.

1254
01:01:09,159 --> 01:01:11,239
Speaker 5: The volume as much as anything else, I think, And

1255
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,719
I don't remember a lot of jabs, you know, I mean,

1256
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:16,119
it was all power.

1257
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 4: Punches, you know.

1258
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:20,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, No, when I said it and I still it's

1259
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,320
still true greatest round of boxing I've ever seen, not

1260
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:25,400
only I've ever called, but I've ever seen.

1261
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:27,519
Speaker 4: You know, you know.

1262
01:01:27,719 --> 01:01:31,119
Speaker 5: But we also knew that that can't go on. One

1263
01:01:31,199 --> 01:01:33,280
of these guys is gonna drop, you know, at one.

1264
01:01:33,079 --> 01:01:33,719
Speaker 4: Point or another.

1265
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:38,079
Speaker 5: And we really did feel that that that Hearns had

1266
01:01:38,079 --> 01:01:41,440
really shot himself in the first round, you know, we

1267
01:01:41,559 --> 01:01:43,320
I just didn't believe he had anything left.

1268
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:44,159
Speaker 4: I really didn't.

1269
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:45,920
Speaker 5: But you know the other thing that I thought about,

1270
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,800
It's funny, I was just thinking about it today and

1271
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,159
I had thought about it before, is that that cut

1272
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:55,440
was really a nasty cut. And I really wonder Dan,

1273
01:01:56,559 --> 01:01:59,159
if if that fight were held now, would they have

1274
01:01:59,199 --> 01:01:59,920
stopped that fight?

1275
01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 4: Did Duane rounds?

1276
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:04,679
Speaker 2: Maybe? I actually, because of the magnitude and who the

1277
01:02:04,719 --> 01:02:08,719
guys were, I would say, especially in Vegas, knowing that

1278
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,320
they know their stuff, I actually would say probably not.

1279
01:02:11,719 --> 01:02:13,320
They would have let it go a little longer to

1280
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:14,239
see if it got worse.

1281
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 1: If you remember, were you concerned when Steel called time

1282
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:20,000
Richard Steel the referee and took him over the doctor.

1283
01:02:20,119 --> 01:02:23,880
They may say that cut is too bad, you even remember.

1284
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:26,920
Speaker 5: It was a nasty cut. I don't remember how it

1285
01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:28,960
looked on television, but it was you were there.

1286
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 2: I'm sure, but that probably gave Marvin a lot more

1287
01:02:31,519 --> 01:02:33,400
urgency to do what he did the rest of the rest.

1288
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:37,079
Speaker 4: Sure, for sure. Yeah, I'm sure he was thinking this

1289
01:02:37,199 --> 01:02:39,119
is going to get stopped at some point.

1290
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 2: You know, and he's gonna feel like if that happens.

1291
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,320
I mean, I don't I'm thinking about this, knowing his career.

1292
01:02:45,119 --> 01:02:47,960
He's like, I got screwed in England when I fought

1293
01:02:48,039 --> 01:02:49,760
Mint there, you know what I mean, when they are

1294
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,119
not not mentor when I fought Anti Fermo got a draw.

1295
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,760
When I finally won the title against Minter in England,

1296
01:02:55,119 --> 01:02:57,000
I got screwed because I didn't get to celebrate because

1297
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,679
they went crazy and started throwing stuff in the ring.

1298
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,480
And I'll be damned if I'm going to them screw

1299
01:03:00,519 --> 01:03:02,480
me on this big fight with a cut like that.

1300
01:03:02,719 --> 01:03:04,079
So I'm gonna go out there and get this dude

1301
01:03:04,119 --> 01:03:04,559
out of here.

1302
01:03:05,320 --> 01:03:08,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sure that. I'm sure that was in Mark Marvin.

1303
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:10,880
Speaker 5: Marvin was just such a pro though, you know, and

1304
01:03:11,760 --> 01:03:14,000
as I said, he was one of the best finishers

1305
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:14,719
I can remember.

1306
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:17,199
Speaker 4: You know, Ray was a great finisher. Also, you know,

1307
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:18,920
if you're hurt, it's over.

1308
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:19,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1309
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:23,039
Speaker 5: And and I kind of think Marvin, that's kind of

1310
01:03:23,039 --> 01:03:27,599
the way you went about things, you know. He you know,

1311
01:03:27,719 --> 01:03:29,639
I I don't know that he's that he has a

1312
01:03:29,679 --> 01:03:31,880
process that he's thinking. Boy, if I don't get this

1313
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,079
guy out of here, they're going to stop this fight.

1314
01:03:34,719 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 4: Maybe in retrospect, sorry about this.

1315
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:40,079
Speaker 2: Okay, we were animal lovers.

1316
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:44,119
Speaker 4: Oh good, good, she's been sleeping all day.

1317
01:03:44,199 --> 01:03:46,079
Speaker 1: Now now she wants to be part of the show,

1318
01:03:46,679 --> 01:03:48,559
part of it. But yeah, but Marvin, Marvin definitely had

1319
01:03:48,559 --> 01:03:50,320
the urgency. R so one more before we get you

1320
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,119
out of here. Same question we asked with al what

1321
01:03:53,320 --> 01:03:55,079
do we not know? You gave us a lot of

1322
01:03:55,119 --> 01:03:57,000
what we don't know? But what do we not know

1323
01:03:57,039 --> 01:03:59,760
about Hagler? Hearns that maybe we should know, like later

1324
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:03,360
that night when he took the headsets off, anything, anything

1325
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:06,000
that else that comes to mind, that maybe we should

1326
01:04:06,039 --> 01:04:09,400
know about that, that the public maybe at large, doesn't

1327
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:11,519
know about that famous night in nineteen eighty five.

1328
01:04:11,559 --> 01:04:14,719
Speaker 5: Anything, Oh, you know, only that I always thought of

1329
01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,519
Marvin Hagler, as I said, as the consummate profession you know,

1330
01:04:18,119 --> 01:04:20,800
and I think I'm sure that he felt like he

1331
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,599
had to be on the gas, you know. He you know,

1332
01:04:23,639 --> 01:04:25,679
he couldn't if he was going to go out.

1333
01:04:25,719 --> 01:04:27,079
Speaker 4: He was going to go out on a shield, just

1334
01:04:27,119 --> 01:04:28,320
like Hearn's, you know.

1335
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:32,400
Speaker 5: And I felt that. I'm sure he felt there was

1336
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:36,320
a sense of urgency. I don't know that he.

1337
01:04:37,639 --> 01:04:40,639
Speaker 4: I never saw him as really this calculating kind of

1338
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:44,280
kind of guy like Ray was. I don't know. I'm

1339
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:47,239
not sure Marvin was, you know, but I'm.

1340
01:04:47,079 --> 01:04:49,639
Speaker 5: Sure he felt a sense of urgency. I'm sure he felt,

1341
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,559
you know, I need to do this sooner rather than later.

1342
01:04:52,679 --> 01:04:56,000
And he, you know, he was gonna he wasn't going

1343
01:04:56,079 --> 01:04:59,280
to just pace himself. He was gonna do everything he

1344
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,400
could do to get the guy out of there as

1345
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,079
quickly as you could get the guy out of there.

1346
01:05:03,119 --> 01:05:06,639
But I think that's more just instinctual than anything else.

1347
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:09,360
Speaker 2: Well, I have one more for you. And I pondered

1348
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:11,280
this myself because I am, as I've said, I'm very

1349
01:05:11,280 --> 01:05:13,360
obsessed not only with this fight, but with all of

1350
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:17,519
the Four King fights. Forty years later, a lot of

1351
01:05:17,519 --> 01:05:19,840
people obsessed the about a fight the last eight minutes

1352
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:21,880
and fifty two seconds forty years ago.

1353
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 4: Why, yeah, that's the boxing fan.

1354
01:05:26,519 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 5: I think, you know, it's not normal, Yeah, except that

1355
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:36,719
I think people, you know, I think I think people

1356
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:41,360
remember the moment, you know, rather than the event, you know.

1357
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:43,599
Like That's one of the reasons that I always say

1358
01:05:43,679 --> 01:05:47,960
Haggard Leonard was, for me, was the biggest fight I

1359
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:48,960
ever did, because.

1360
01:05:48,719 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 4: It was a whole. It was a lead up to it, yep.

1361
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 5: And I remember when when the fighters were first seen,

1362
01:05:55,719 --> 01:05:59,480
Remember they before they started the ring walk, there was

1363
01:05:59,519 --> 01:06:00,840
a the crowd.

1364
01:06:01,039 --> 01:06:03,480
Speaker 4: The way the crowd went up, it was palpable, you know,

1365
01:06:03,559 --> 01:06:06,079
I mean you could feel it. That was before a

1366
01:06:06,119 --> 01:06:07,119
punch was ever thrown.

1367
01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:09,239
Speaker 2: I agree with you that that was a bigger fight

1368
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:11,800
from the magnitude of the event than the Hearns and

1369
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,480
Hagler fight. It's just that hers, Isn't it fair?

1370
01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 1: Isn't it fair that part of that build up is

1371
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:22,199
because Hagler had destroyed Hearns and now everybody can't he

1372
01:06:22,239 --> 01:06:24,360
do it to Ray Leonard and are coming out of it,

1373
01:06:24,440 --> 01:06:28,400
and added to it the destruction of Hearns two years earlier, obviously.

1374
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:29,719
Speaker 4: Of course. Yeah, I don't know.

1375
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,800
Speaker 5: I just think boxing fans have a tendency to remember

1376
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:34,360
the moment rather.

1377
01:06:34,159 --> 01:06:34,760
Speaker 4: Than the fight.

1378
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:39,079
Speaker 1: Sure, listen, we remember so much about this. You have

1379
01:06:39,199 --> 01:06:45,199
been great with us. Thank you. You look fantastic. Rayel

1380
01:06:45,239 --> 01:06:47,679
and I were excited when you got back to me that, hey,

1381
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:49,360
we are going to get a chance to talk to

1382
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,679
Barry Tompkins about April fifteenth, nineteen eighty five. You were

1383
01:06:52,719 --> 01:06:57,239
there again forever and always we love. This is still

1384
01:06:57,320 --> 01:06:59,880
the first round in the middle of that round.

1385
01:07:00,599 --> 01:07:03,639
Speaker 4: That was heartfelt, believe me. I mean that was you know,

1386
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:07,920
in a career you have.

1387
01:07:09,639 --> 01:07:11,920
Speaker 5: If you're lucky, you have five or six things like that,

1388
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,800
you know, five or six moments like that, And for me,

1389
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:17,880
that was, you know, certainly one of them, you know,

1390
01:07:18,239 --> 01:07:22,079
And yeah, you know, and you just you go to

1391
01:07:22,119 --> 01:07:23,599
bed that night you think, I hope I said the

1392
01:07:23,639 --> 01:07:24,559
right thing at the right time.

1393
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:25,519
Speaker 1: You know you did.

1394
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,280
Speaker 2: So we're still talking about forty years later, Barry, I

1395
01:07:28,280 --> 01:07:28,880
guess you did.

1396
01:07:30,119 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 1: You did for me.

1397
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:33,079
Speaker 2: Later.

1398
01:07:33,639 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 1: There you are.

1399
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:36,920
Speaker 2: I'm gonna watch it when we're done, when we get done.

1400
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:40,840
Speaker 4: It's funny. I just showed it to my son just today,

1401
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:42,079
knowing I was going to talk with.

1402
01:07:42,039 --> 01:07:46,360
Speaker 1: You again, and it holds up. Listen, my friend, thank you.

1403
01:07:46,519 --> 01:07:49,559
This was our honor to have you here sincerely.

1404
01:07:49,719 --> 01:07:53,079
Speaker 5: We mean that it was an absolute pleasure anytime. And Dan,

1405
01:07:53,159 --> 01:07:54,119
great to see you, Great to.

1406
01:07:54,119 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 4: Talking with you.

1407
01:07:54,559 --> 01:07:55,679
Speaker 2: That's very pleasure as always.

1408
01:07:55,800 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: Thank you, Barry Tompkins pleasure wow wow wow. And I

1409
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:03,800
want to say a personal public thank you to both

1410
01:08:03,840 --> 01:08:08,840
Al Bernstein and Barry Tompkins, who did not hesitate Dan Rayfield,

1411
01:08:08,880 --> 01:08:12,679
not even Brannano. Second. When I contacted both of them,

1412
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,000
I got separately, I got an answer from both of

1413
01:08:15,039 --> 01:08:18,399
them with literally within thirty minutes. In Barry Tompkins case,

1414
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:22,000
I got an answer back in like ten minutes on yes, absolutely,

1415
01:08:22,079 --> 01:08:25,079
when can we do something about Rayfield? Something about yeah,

1416
01:08:25,079 --> 01:08:25,880
I want to do this for Dan.

1417
01:08:26,159 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 2: So these are Barry Tompkins and Bernstein, They're just great people,

1418
01:08:31,279 --> 01:08:34,399
genuine guys. Jen I've had the great privilege to know

1419
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,439
both of them for many, many many years my entire

1420
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:41,720
boxing writing career twenty five years. I've probably known Al

1421
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:43,319
a bit better because I've been around them a lot

1422
01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:45,520
more because Barry wasn't doing many of the big fights.

1423
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,199
But Barry is as nice and as a good dude

1424
01:08:48,199 --> 01:08:51,079
to hang with and talk shop with as anybody. Al

1425
01:08:51,119 --> 01:08:53,199
Bernstein the same thing. So it was a real thrill

1426
01:08:53,279 --> 01:08:56,039
to get not only get them on the show, but

1427
01:08:56,159 --> 01:08:57,439
to talk about such a topic.

1428
01:08:57,520 --> 01:09:01,159
Speaker 1: Okay, so did we know about the Gary Shandling thing,

1429
01:09:01,239 --> 01:09:04,439
the comedian with Joe Rivers and the fightings. We love that,

1430
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:06,800
as we said with Al. And then how about Barry

1431
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:12,079
Tompkins went and ran, jogged literally with Marvin Hagler through

1432
01:09:12,119 --> 01:09:15,800
Providence Town, Massachusetts. And then he shared the story and

1433
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:18,479
you were blown away. You're still blown away because you

1434
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:20,319
had not heard this before about Duran and what he

1435
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:21,119
said to Ray Leonard.

1436
01:09:22,239 --> 01:09:27,119
Speaker 2: Like I said, I have seen documentaries, I've studied these fights.

1437
01:09:27,159 --> 01:09:30,359
I've talked to people involved. I've watched and read and

1438
01:09:30,439 --> 01:09:34,680
been doing so far, you know, most my adult life

1439
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,319
and even as a teenager. So to hear a nugget

1440
01:09:37,399 --> 01:09:42,640
like that that it was Duran after he loses a close,

1441
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:46,239
very tough fifteen rounder against Marvin Hagler, to go between

1442
01:09:46,239 --> 01:09:48,640
the ropes to say to Ray his great rival, who

1443
01:09:48,720 --> 01:09:51,359
he already thought twice, who's doing the show for HBO,

1444
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:54,439
And to tell Ray Leonard you can beat Hagler. And

1445
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:56,520
that's what maybe it got the wheels turning more than

1446
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:58,680
I already were. I know, the fight didn't happen right away.

1447
01:09:58,720 --> 01:10:01,199
It was still about an hour, you know, years later,

1448
01:10:02,199 --> 01:10:04,159
and but Ray wasn't like super active anyway, he was

1449
01:10:04,199 --> 01:10:07,000
in retirement. That to me was a that's a mind

1450
01:10:07,039 --> 01:10:09,439
boggling nugget. So I was. I'm glad that they shared

1451
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:10,239
it with us on the show.

1452
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,119
Speaker 1: How about that again? Thank you to both of those

1453
01:10:13,159 --> 01:10:15,960
guys for sharing all of this. All right, so we've

1454
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:18,439
been here a little while. What do we say in

1455
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:23,319
closing forty years later about again Al Michaels's line, because

1456
01:10:23,319 --> 01:10:26,159
we didn't share it, is how much longer can this go?

1457
01:10:26,279 --> 01:10:28,399
At this pace? Not very long? At this pace, Al

1458
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,720
says Barry Topkins. This is still the first round with

1459
01:10:31,760 --> 01:10:34,439
them waylaying on each other. What else do we want

1460
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,840
to say about the legend of Hagler Hearns forty years on.

1461
01:10:38,239 --> 01:10:41,399
Speaker 2: It's just a mythical fight. I mean, it's it's rare

1462
01:10:41,479 --> 01:10:45,239
in sports, in life that you have an event that

1463
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:47,680
not only meets the moment and lives up to the hype,

1464
01:10:47,720 --> 01:10:50,279
but exceeds it. I think even though Hagler and Hearns

1465
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:52,960
only lasted for less than three full rounds, I think

1466
01:10:53,039 --> 01:10:55,760
it definitely exceeded it. And you have larger in life

1467
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:58,680
characters for different reasons, part of a great foresome. Along

1468
01:10:58,680 --> 01:11:02,079
also with Duran and Leonard, they defined the nineteen eighties,

1469
01:11:02,439 --> 01:11:05,199
which was a glorious time for boxing. It's a time

1470
01:11:05,239 --> 01:11:07,760
in boxing where for at least a good portion of

1471
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:11,000
the decade was not dominated by the heavyweights. It was

1472
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:14,880
dominated by these guys because it was post Alley and

1473
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,960
it wasn't now Mike Tyson was making his way up

1474
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,439
and obviously became a legend, you know, in the latter

1475
01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:21,000
part of the nineteen eighties. He won the title in

1476
01:11:21,079 --> 01:11:24,840
nineteen eighty six, but from nineteen eighty until nineteen eighty six.

1477
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:27,560
While there was obviously lots of great fighters in boxing,

1478
01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:31,479
like there always isn't every era, them those four they

1479
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:33,319
sort of made each other for a lot of different reasons.

1480
01:11:33,359 --> 01:11:35,800
So even when Tyson was doing his thing in the

1481
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:38,640
latter part of the nineteen eighties eighty six to eighty nine,

1482
01:11:39,159 --> 01:11:41,880
you know, these guys were still the front pages. They

1483
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:44,520
were well known characters. They were known to the public.

1484
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,560
Besides boxing fans. You could walk down the street and

1485
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:49,640
I don't care if you're not a boxing fan, you

1486
01:11:49,680 --> 01:11:51,680
would still know who Sugar Ray Leonard was. He was

1487
01:11:52,119 --> 01:11:54,199
of the four Kings. He was the guy that made

1488
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:59,199
you know in the to use the baseball parlanst of.

1489
01:11:59,600 --> 01:12:01,880
He was the straw that stirred the drink. Like the

1490
01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:03,680
other three guys were great in their own right, but

1491
01:12:04,199 --> 01:12:05,960
Ray was the one that made it revolve around him,

1492
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:07,439
which is why if you look at the nine fights,

1493
01:12:07,800 --> 01:12:10,239
he fought more of them than the other guys did.

1494
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:13,520
But the other guys thrived in the fights that did

1495
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,520
not include Ray and Hagler Hearns. Let's say, of the

1496
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:20,279
non Ray Leonard involved bouts of the of the of

1497
01:12:20,319 --> 01:12:23,319
the great matches between them, clearly the biggest, best, most

1498
01:12:23,319 --> 01:12:26,079
famous in terms of the action. I know some people

1499
01:12:26,119 --> 01:12:28,960
will say, you know of ones that involved Ray, he

1500
01:12:29,039 --> 01:12:32,319
had bigger ones with Hearns and with Marvin and obviously Duran,

1501
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:35,399
But uh, look it, like I said, it's a mythical

1502
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:37,920
fight and it will never not be a mythical fight

1503
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:39,600
at the stage of forty years.

1504
01:12:39,520 --> 01:12:44,359
Speaker 1: Later, greatest first round ever ever, and that has stood

1505
01:12:44,439 --> 01:12:47,960
up forty years later, indeed still amazing that neither guy

1506
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:51,319
went down from all of that violence, each of them,

1507
01:12:51,359 --> 01:12:54,279
each of them landing like seventy eighty punches or more

1508
01:12:54,479 --> 01:12:58,199
in that in that opening round crazy listen, I've had

1509
01:12:58,239 --> 01:13:01,279
a blast reminiscing. Was this any good? We kind of

1510
01:13:01,319 --> 01:13:03,119
put this together over the course of a couple of days.

1511
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:07,520
Oh my lord, thank you again publicly, Al Bernstein, Thank you,

1512
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:12,800
Barry Tompkins. Amazing stuff with the late marvelous Marvin Hagler

1513
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:18,279
in his knockout of Thomas Hearns forty years later. We

1514
01:13:18,359 --> 01:13:20,840
remind you that, however you found us on this podfeed,

1515
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:24,119
we're here reviewing going into the weekend Thursday night to Friday,

1516
01:13:24,359 --> 01:13:27,680
recam coming off the weekend Sunday and Monday, and then

1517
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,079
special occasions like this. You need to be following and

1518
01:13:30,119 --> 01:13:31,479
subscribing on the podcast feed.

1519
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:33,199
Speaker 2: And by the way, if you're watching us on the

1520
01:13:33,199 --> 01:13:35,159
YouTube channel, subscribe to the YouTube channel.

1521
01:13:35,439 --> 01:13:39,279
Speaker 1: Absolutely same thing, because we put this up as a

1522
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:41,760
video here as well on the YouTube channel. With these

1523
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:43,399
great guests that we have. How about two Hall of

1524
01:13:43,399 --> 01:13:47,239
Fame broadcasting legends being here with us as well. Love

1525
01:13:47,279 --> 01:13:50,000
it all right, my friend, We go about the business

1526
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,479
of present day boxing, but it's always great to reminisce,

1527
01:13:52,640 --> 01:13:55,640
and man, you know what we're both doing. After we

1528
01:13:55,680 --> 01:13:58,119
say goodbye on this We're gonna go watch. We're gonna

1529
01:13:58,119 --> 01:14:01,479
go watch Ackler Hearns. This is still the first round

1530
01:14:01,880 --> 01:14:05,880
again coming up. Thank you Dan Rayfield, great stuff. As always,

1531
01:14:06,319 --> 01:14:09,439
bet I am merely TJ. Reeves. If you're only hearing

1532
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:11,960
us again, come find the YouTube page. Come find the

1533
01:14:12,039 --> 01:14:15,920
video as well of this edition the Big Fight Weekend

1534
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,039
YouTube page. Follow subscribe to the Big Fight Weekend podcast feed.

1535
01:14:19,079 --> 01:14:21,840
For now, We're good. On the anniversary of Hagler Hearns

1536
01:14:22,359 --> 01:14:24,840
here on this special edition on the Fight Preach to

1537
01:14:24,920 --> 01:14:25,600
Night podcast