WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:04.000 With Lucky Land Slots, you can get lucky just about anywhere. 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:06.320 Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today. 3 00:00:06.759 --> 00:00:08.439 Has anyone seen the bride and groom? 4 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:09.199 Sri? 5 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:10.560 Sorry we're here. 6 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:12.679 We were getting lucky in the limo and we lost 7 00:00:12.679 --> 00:00:16.320 track of time. No Lucky Land casino with cash prizes 8 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:17.960 that add up quicker than a guess registered. 9 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:21.920 In that case, I pronounce you Lucky Hiks for free. 10 00:00:21.719 --> 00:00:25.160 At Lucky Landslots dot com. Daily bonuses are waiting. No 11 00:00:25.280 --> 00:00:27.800 purchase necessary board. We're prohibited by lock eight team plus 12 00:00:27.879 --> 00:00:30.079 terms and conditions applying see website for details. 13 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:32.880 It is Ryan here and I have a question for you. 14 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:35.079 What do you do when you win? 15 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:35.560 Like? 16 00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:38.799 Are you at fist pumper, a woo, a handclapper, a 17 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:40.679 high fiver? I kind of like the high five. But 18 00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:42.359 if you want to hone in on those winning moves, 19 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:45.679 check out Chumbuck Casino At chumbacasino dot com, choose some 20 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:48.359 hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to 21 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:52.159 redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly, 22 00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:55.119 plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait. Start having the 23 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:57.880 most fun ever at Chumbuck Casino dot com. 24 00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:00.039 Noe B just Necessary Dvoid Over Every Boy Lost, I 25 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:00.920 can acting lay. 26 00:01:08.599 --> 00:01:12.040 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 27 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:15.159 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 28 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:19.400 written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer. 29 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:21.280 The Nightstalker, Bck. 30 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.000 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 31 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:30.200 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 32 00:01:30.319 --> 00:01:32.519 your host journalist and author. 33 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:44.439 Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. 34 00:01:45.879 --> 00:01:50.280 In an incredible six year investigation, true crime writer and 35 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:55.480 investigative journalist David mclath tells the unbelievable story of one 36 00:01:55.519 --> 00:02:00.239 of the most prolific predators in American history. Wayne Chapman, 37 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.000 admitted to abusing one hundred children over an eight year 38 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:09.400 span from sixty seven to seventy six. What the world 39 00:02:09.439 --> 00:02:12.439 could never have known is that Chapman did not act alone. 40 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:17.960 He worked in concert with other serial predators. Unbeknownst to 41 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:22.960 parents and law enforcement, Chapman was suspected in multiple child 42 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:28.439 murders and was a completely fixated abuser. McGrath lives a 43 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:32.039 veil on Wayne Chapman and a child sex ring that 44 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:36.000 operated in the area at the time. In this incredible 45 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:39.599 true story. The book that were featuring this evening is 46 00:02:39.719 --> 00:02:43.680 Monster The Life and Crimes of Wayne Chapman, with my 47 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:47.759 special guest journalist and author David McGrath. Welcome to the program, 48 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:50.759 and thank you for this interview. David McGrath. 49 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.039 Thank you so much, Dan, Thank you for giving me 50 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:57.680 the opportunity to shed some light on a story that's 51 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:02.280 outside of our painful people, incredibly underreported social Thank you. 52 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:06.879 Thank you so much. This is in an extraordinary tale, 53 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:16.159 extraordinary investigation. Let's get to how you came to this. 54 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:20.680 You write that one night you were rough watching TV 55 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:25.719 and you saw a documentary on HBO entitled Have You 56 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:31.639 Seen Andy? By Melanie Perkins mcgloblin. Tell us what this 57 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:36.680 documentary did for you, what it triggered, and what was 58 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:40.080 its content? Tell us about this event. 59 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:43.639 Sure, I had grown up in the Boston area, and 60 00:03:43.639 --> 00:03:47.000 I had always been interested in books and going to 61 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:48.759 the library every day, and that was sort of my 62 00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:53.319 seven and you know, a sort of abusive household, which 63 00:03:53.360 --> 00:03:56.879 is not uncommon for the time. And I always wanted 64 00:03:56.879 --> 00:04:00.360 to do a book, and like most authors, my my 65 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:02.520 main problem was what was what suffect would I do 66 00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:02.800 it on? 67 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:03.120 You know? 68 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:07.120 And I saw this documentary late at night during the 69 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:10.759 night when I was battling a brutal head cold, one 70 00:04:10.800 --> 00:04:12.960 of those you know, head and advice can't sleep kind 71 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:15.240 of night. My wife was pregnant, so she was having 72 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:18.360 a rough time getting asleep, and we were both just 73 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:22.600 kind of await And you know, I saw the documentary 74 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:26.000 that Melanie Perkins had made about her friend Andy, and 75 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:31.360 you know, this young boy disappeared from a pool and Laurens, Massachusetts, 76 00:04:31.399 --> 00:04:33.959 which was, you know, twenty five thirty minutes from where 77 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:38.079 I grew up. You know, this man who was the 78 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:40.920 main suspect in the case had also been the main 79 00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:43.839 suspect and some other disappearances that were a little closer 80 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.839 to home for me, and you know, I was just 81 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:50.800 struck down by this man's you know, it was really 82 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:55.000 his booking photo. I couldn't get past the fact of 83 00:04:55.079 --> 00:05:00.160 his vacant sort of look, just the the out or 84 00:05:01.319 --> 00:05:03.920 lack of humanity in this man's face. And I couldn't 85 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:06.800 get over it. You know, I fell asleep around four 86 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:09.360 thirty five that morning. I was up, you know, very 87 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:13.399 early googling, uh, you know, pictures of this man. And 88 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.959 you know, at first day, I just said to myself, 89 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:19.879 you know, find out everything that you can know that's 90 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:22.959 to be known about this man. And you know that 91 00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:26.399 sort of set off that very day too. And I 92 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:28.680 had no idea that I would ever put a word, 93 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:32.480 you know, on paper about anything to do with Wayne Chapman. 94 00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:35.680 But I knew that any human beings whoever interacted with 95 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:39.360 him had any sort of insight into him. You know, 96 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:42.279 I needed to know. And I you know, these are 97 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:44.879 while your show is so popular and true crime shows, 98 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:47.800 they're often you know, the most popular podcasts, you know, 99 00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:51.519 on Apple or wherever is really because people need to 100 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:55.000 know why. I think that's assassination with kids like this, 101 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:57.319 just because they just need to know why. And I'm 102 00:05:57.399 --> 00:05:59.839 no different. I just needed to know why and how 103 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:03.199 and how Wayne Chapman came to be. And you know, 104 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:05.839 that was twenty thirteen, and here we are, you know, 105 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:08.519 in late twenty twenty one, and you know, the book's 106 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:12.360 ready to be to come out and I still't feel like, 107 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:15.879 damn this, There is so much more to know. But 108 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:18.279 that's the genesis of this book. 109 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:23.000 You write that once you knew you had to write 110 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.920 this book, once you felt compelled, you had to start 111 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:29.279 at the very beginning, and you started in Jamestown, New York, 112 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:34.399 and visited Wayne Chapman's childhood home. What did you find 113 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:39.040 out about Wayne Chapman and his childhood Tell. 114 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:40.560 Us what you found well. 115 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:45.000 I initially took off to Jamestown in late twenty thirteen 116 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:49.480 and worked with a woman at the Historical Society named 117 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:53.600 Afley Centrik, who was incredibly helpful pointing me in the 118 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:55.560 right direction. And you know, when I got there, I 119 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:57.839 had grown up in the city, you know, and housing 120 00:06:57.920 --> 00:07:01.480 projects not far in Sunray Park in Boston. I had 121 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:05.399 never really been to upstate New north and I found 122 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:08.639 it to be a town that, you know, nothing really 123 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:11.680 happened in, you know. I would ask people on the street, 124 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.279 you know, what happens here in Jamestown, and the most 125 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:18.360 prevailing news it was nothing. It's just a random town that, 126 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.199 you know, even the people who live here, it's completely forgettable. 127 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:25.800 But you know, I had the preconceived notion that Chapman 128 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:28.920 would come from some sort of you know, incestuous, you know, 129 00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:32.800 Texas Temsaw massacre type family, you know, and that really 130 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:36.000 wasn't the case. Much like myself, his father was a 131 00:07:36.040 --> 00:07:40.199 military man who had been injured in Guadalcanal and had 132 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:44.519 fought valiantly and been recognized for that by in the 133 00:07:44.639 --> 00:07:46.560 United States and Marine Corps. His father was a member 134 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.399 of the First Marine Division, which my father was a 135 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:53.040 member of, So you know, there was nothing in his 136 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:55.680 background with his parents that would indicate that he was 137 00:07:55.720 --> 00:07:59.120 ever sexually abused. Wayne Chapman was the first born son 138 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:03.279 to our her and Elizabeth's Chapman. Elizabeth was a church 139 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:05.319 going lady who came from a good family who were 140 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:10.959 well known in town. Both the parents did have some issues. 141 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:12.959 With alcohol and drugs. 142 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:17.399 The mother was into chills sleeping kills specifically, and the 143 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:19.759 brothers would talk about that later as her being sort 144 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:23.279 of disengaged from the family and ours. There was a 145 00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:25.240 drinker who spent a lot of his days at the 146 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.800 local VSW post around other veterans from World War Two. 147 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:31.480 Would often make his boys, you know, sit in the 148 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:36.799 car and wait while he got drunk all day. But 149 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:39.600 there were again, there was nothing I could find, and 150 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.519 other people you know, who I respect in this investigation 151 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:46.159 believe that Wayne Chapman was absolutely sexually abused. And while 152 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:48.919 I don't discount that, I could never coroborate that, so 153 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:51.600 I didn't put that in the book. What I did 154 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:54.679 find is that Wayne was born in nineteen forty seven. 155 00:08:55.559 --> 00:09:00.320 His parents were married not too soon after, so it 156 00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:04.200 was sort of a shotgun wedding. And you know, Wayne 157 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:07.080 started defending really young. I mean four or five years old. 158 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:11.080 He's already touching little boys in the classroom. He's already 159 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:16.639 sort of getting little boys into the woods and doing 160 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:20.799 his best to seduce other young children. He's you know, 161 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:24.240 asking kids about their bodies. He's getting involved in pornography, 162 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:27.639 finding his father's playboys and hustler magazines and showing them 163 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:31.240 around the neighborhood to neighbors. Sort Of right off the bat, 164 00:09:32.200 --> 00:09:34.960 Wayne Chapman is already thinking down the lines of sexual 165 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:38.399 sort of behavior that you know, most children, you know, 166 00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:40.720 ninety nine point nine defended children have no idea what 167 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:43.679 that's even about, you know. So he was exposed to 168 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:47.120 that very young, and he would often state that some 169 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:52.519 classmates of his had sort of got him in the 170 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:55.960 woods and made him undressed, and that sort of got 171 00:09:56.039 --> 00:09:59.600 him thinking along that track. But I could never cooperate 172 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:03.039 that ever either. You know, he came from his relatively 173 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:07.600 normal family. His father was you know, he organized neighborhood 174 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:10.720 watches He was a big member of the veteran community 175 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:15.399 in Jamestown. He was very active in the church. His 176 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.039 father was the president of the congregation up there. At 177 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.919 one point, Wayne was an Authar boy. He was named 178 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:23.799 the Youth of the Year in nineteen sixty four by 179 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:28.360 his pastor. He was a perfect attendance and Sunday school 180 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:32.039 type of guy. But what Waye could have never known 181 00:10:32.240 --> 00:10:35.360 was that his parents did have some concerns over his 182 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:38.639 behavior as it related to sexual relations with his classmates. 183 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:42.879 He was taking animals into the woods and starving cats, 184 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:46.679 hanging them from trees. He was wetting the bed, and 185 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:49.799 his father was getting, you know, extremely angry that when 186 00:10:49.879 --> 00:10:52.200 he was home off the road from his job as 187 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:55.159 a long haul trucker, Wayne would often be up at 188 00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:57.480 night because he pied the bed, didn't you know. He's 189 00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:02.399 pointed to a specific situation later on where his father 190 00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:04.480 threw him out in the snow, And anybody who knows 191 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:06.440 anything about that state of New York knows that, you know, 192 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:08.639 it snows out there in July. I mean it's brutal 193 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:09.200 up there. 194 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:09.639 And. 195 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:14.399 His father would make him stand in snowpiles in the 196 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:18.320 middle of the winter naked you know. And again, you know, 197 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:20.840 my preconceived notion was that I was going to find 198 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:23.000 that Wayne Chaplin was nurtured to be one of the 199 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:26.200 worst pedophiles in American history, and I could just never 200 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:29.960 cooperate that Dan, And in my opinion, you know, Wayne 201 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:34.039 Chapman was a born pedophile. It was a sexual preference 202 00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:39.480 for young children, and that started at a very young age. 203 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:41.559 And it was like a snowball as it is, it 204 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:45.559 just starts to manifesting the fantasy's happened. He acts out 205 00:11:45.600 --> 00:11:47.240 on them, and they just get worse and mores. His 206 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:47.840 time goes on. 207 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:52.480 Dan tell us about so his high school life, like 208 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:55.720 what was it characterized by? What was his Was he 209 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.679 an intelligent guy? Was he a sociable guy. Did he 210 00:11:58.759 --> 00:12:00.639 have a lot of friends? Was he the athletic? 211 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:05.159 What was his short So Chapman had absolutely no friends. 212 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:08.759 In fact, he paid no attention to his personal hygiene, 213 00:12:08.840 --> 00:12:12.399 which was manifest lator in life with losing jobs and 214 00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:16.039 actually people, you know, being able to iv him through 215 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:19.759 his poor hygiene. But the classmates that I could speak 216 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:22.080 to from the late nineteen sixties who were still around, 217 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.799 nobody remembered Wayne Chapman. They knew that they had a 218 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:27.039 man who came from their high school, from their town 219 00:12:27.720 --> 00:12:30.240 who was a suspect in multiple child murderers, and it 220 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:32.799 was with a child molester. But nobody could tell me 221 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:36.480 anything about Wayne Chapman. Nobody knew him because brothers. It 222 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:38.360 was a little different, and he could have three brothers 223 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:42.279 that came along who you know, grew up in the 224 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:45.440 same household, same father, same parents, didn't go on to 225 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:50.600 molest children. So Waene Chapman was, you know, he was 226 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:54.440 somebody who was completely forgettable outside of the bad hygiene 227 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:57.799 and the sort of vacant look that he had that 228 00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:02.480 people remembered forever and ever. The most common thread with 229 00:13:02.600 --> 00:13:05.120 anybody who's ever met Wayne Chapman that I was able 230 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:07.559 to speak to for this book, whether it be detectives, 231 00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:13.600 other offenders, medical staff at statemental hospitals, or people who 232 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:16.519 knew him in Jamestown, would tell you that the guy 233 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.240 just was not there. He was a black hole. He 234 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:22.879 was completely vacant in his eyes. He was completely sick 235 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:25.120 faded from a very young age and one thing which 236 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:31.879 was stocking and getting children isolated so he'd commit sexual assault. 237 00:13:32.039 --> 00:13:35.960 And that was he was a pre programmed machine. Often 238 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:41.600 most pedophiles are, you know, they're circumstantial pedophiles where if 239 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:44.039 they have the opportunity to do it. You know, Wayne 240 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:47.120 Chapman was a precedential pedophile and from a young age 241 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:50.000 that manifested and he had no social life. He was 242 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:53.240 not involved in sports. His father was the big car guy. 243 00:13:53.360 --> 00:13:55.840 He would often, you know, bring his vehicle out into 244 00:13:55.879 --> 00:13:59.639 the parking lot and sort of do car shows. Outside 245 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:01.519 of these I was in Jamestown and one would have 246 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:04.519 where they grew up, which was a quiet street, very 247 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:07.840 close neighbors. He would be tinkering with that car all day. 248 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:11.080 Wayne never had any interest in working with his father, 249 00:14:11.799 --> 00:14:14.960 and like most boys do, and and you know, by 250 00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:19.240 fifteen sixteen, Wayne was already crossing into the Canadian border 251 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:24.080 to indulge in CD sect shops and child pornography. He 252 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:26.720 was already very big into the pornography trade that was 253 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:30.679 sort of underground in Buffalo, in Toronto. And you know, 254 00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:32.559 I was able to collaborate a little bit of that 255 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:34.879 with people up in Jamestown. You know, I had a 256 00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:37.919 journal and a journalism professor once who told me, you know, 257 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:40.360 it's the best way to get information is to go 258 00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:43.120 out there and talk to people on the street. If 259 00:14:43.159 --> 00:14:45.759 it's a one on one conversation, people are apt to 260 00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:49.039 tell you much more. Emails have pay per trails, text 261 00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:51.879 messages have pay per trails. The conversation that you have 262 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:53.759 with people on the street is only known to the 263 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:55.799 people who were there, And that turned out to be 264 00:14:55.919 --> 00:15:00.320 extremely fruitful for me because people talked to me a 265 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:05.039 lot about the general vibe of that area in the 266 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.639 nineteen sixties is that he could really indulge in child 267 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.039 pornography over the border in Canada, and Chapman later in 268 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:14.799 life would absolutely collaborate that and say he was part 269 00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:19.919 at that burdening, you know, child pornography consumption and production, 270 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:22.840 very early in life in Canada, very close to where 271 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:25.399 he grew up. So that's already where he was sixty 272 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:27.720 eight at Dan When. 273 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:30.519 Does he run a foul of a law? You say, 274 00:15:30.559 --> 00:15:33.080 we quit school when he was sixteen, and then you 275 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:36.960 say he's crossing over the border. He's he's at the 276 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:44.240 very lower rung of this pornography child pornography distribution. When 277 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:47.000 does he run a flower over law? What happens when 278 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.399 he's eighteen, So nineteen. 279 00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:54.399 Sixty seven, he's in Pennsylvania. And initially in this investigation, Dan, 280 00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:57.240 I thought that this guy would wake up in the 281 00:15:57.320 --> 00:16:01.360 morning and just say a dive date and his head there. 282 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.480 But you know, as I've learned later on, as the 283 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:06.759 year has gone by into my work with Chapman, is 284 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:09.840 that nothing was by accident. And I hope your audience 285 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:11.440 and the fans out if they read the book and 286 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:14.600 listen to this, that nothing that happens here is by accident. 287 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:19.480 Chapman must have known somebody in Pennsylvania. He must have 288 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:22.600 he must have had some sort of connection to the 289 00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:26.840 Pennsylvania area in Oil City specifically, because his first offense 290 00:16:26.879 --> 00:16:30.279 happens in nineteen sixty seven, and he met a boy 291 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:35.000 the day prior, and he's already beginning to begin with 292 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:39.039 his ruses, you know, the lost God, the promising of work. 293 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:42.080 And you know, for whatever reason, he doesn't actually assault 294 00:16:42.120 --> 00:16:44.320 the boy the day that he meets him. My suspicion 295 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.840 is that he was stalking him. He Chapman would pick 296 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:50.320 out a victim, none of these victims or by accident, 297 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.720 and he would sixth date on that victim, and he 298 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:55.240 would figure out a way to isolate that boy away 299 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.200 from his friend group. He tells a little boy that 300 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:01.519 in August, the sixties out, and he tells a little boy, hey, listen, 301 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:04.559 meet me here tomorrow. I have a paper out, you know, 302 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:07.079 and you'll get your work and so you can make 303 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:10.079 some money. So Chatman stayed there overnight. He actually sleeps 304 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.119 very close to where he ends up s actually stopping 305 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:15.880 the boy in the woods in real city. And August night, 306 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:19.000 you know, Wayne Chatman is sleeping in his van overnight 307 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:20.880 with no ac so he's can rape a boy in 308 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:25.720 the morning anyways, So he keeps the boy into the woods. 309 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.920 You know, he's asking from pointed sexual questions. At some point, 310 00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:31.960 you know, this boy realizes, you know, there's no job. 311 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.799 You know, it's gonna be no job interview. Chapman ends 312 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:40.920 up he asked the little boys and pointed sexual questions 313 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:44.880 and that's enough to get him a corruption charge on 314 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.000 the madels of minors, and the boy ends up running 315 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:51.880 away contacting police. Chaman doesn't even make an attempt to 316 00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:55.519 declaim that he didn't do anything. At that point in 317 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:58.720 his life, he was very open with police. And you know, 318 00:17:58.799 --> 00:18:00.960 I don't know because then and you know, had an 319 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:04.559 IQ sometimes with the top out at around eighty if 320 00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:10.519 he just couldn't grasp the seriousness of the crimes, because 321 00:18:10.519 --> 00:18:13.160 in sixty seven, you know, he ends up skating on that. 322 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:17.240 In nineteen seventy one, he's back in Pennsylvania, and this 323 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:20.160 time he has a teen little boy in Smithport, which 324 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:22.119 is not too far away. It's less than an hour 325 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:25.559 away from Monos City. You know, again, I don't think 326 00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:28.160 it's by accident that he ends up in Smith's Port, 327 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.960 and he had to have had some connection that area 328 00:18:31.039 --> 00:18:34.680 and seen the boy at a certain point. This time, 329 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:36.440 he took the boy out to the wooded area and 330 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:38.519 he has his camera with him. So I think at 331 00:18:38.559 --> 00:18:41.759 this point in nineteen seventy one, not only is Wayne 332 00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.599 Chapman molesting little boys, but he's also a low level 333 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:52.400 child pornography producer. Because with now the camera comes into 334 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:55.559 it where he's treating peaches of boys, boys are making 335 00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:58.039 statements to police. You know, he gets sexual to assault 336 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:00.839 me and he was taking pitchs is at the same time, 337 00:19:01.519 --> 00:19:05.240 and aneteen seventy one assault, he ends up actually going 338 00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:08.240 all the way with this assault, and you know, the 339 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.880 little boy ends up contacting police and describing the vehicle 340 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.559 that Wayne Chapman was in again. Wayne Fatman is is 341 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:17.720 very open with police, and he ends up getting there 342 00:19:18.440 --> 00:19:21.240 one two year sentence and he ends up doing one 343 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:24.920 year and five months in the workhouse. Chapman's worked with 344 00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:28.319 death in that workhouse. He's the only sex offender in 345 00:19:28.400 --> 00:19:31.119 the book. I have a picture of the handwritten register 346 00:19:31.279 --> 00:19:34.359 when Wayne Chatman entered the workhouse. In He's in there 347 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.559 with people who, you know, assaulting batteries, you know, people 348 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:40.839 who have not paid their child support. Of all the 349 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:43.160 pages that I could find, Wayne Chatman was the only 350 00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:46.119 person who's the good of sex then. So it didn't 351 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:48.720 go well for him in there, and he had tactic 352 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:51.400 guys and they told him let him go out just straight, 353 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:54.559 you know, Scott messing around with little kids, you know, 354 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:57.720 get married, show the world that you can live like 355 00:19:57.799 --> 00:20:01.400 a normal person, because this isn't working for you. Chapman's 356 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:03.559 called a lot of names in the work house. He's 357 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:07.480 you know, old schools sort of movie like prison where 358 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:11.000 you're printing license plates and moving rocks. And he doesn't 359 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.920 like it. And you know, for him, you know, somebody 360 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:16.920 as weak as him in prison is not a good 361 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:19.359 place for him. In late nineteen sixties. They didn't have 362 00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.960 a special management in the name. You know, you were 363 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.519 in there and you were in the general population, and 364 00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:26.480 it is going to be hard for you even then 365 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:27.839 as a sex offender can. 366 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:33.079 Yeah, this is Tony. This is an opportunity to stop 367 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:34.359 for a second for these commercials. 368 00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:38.480 Wait the Lucky land slots. You can get lucky just 369 00:20:38.559 --> 00:20:39.400 about anywhere. 370 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:43.079 This is your captain speaking. We've got clear runway and 371 00:20:43.119 --> 00:20:44.920 the weather's fine, but we're just going to circle up 372 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:48.079 here a while and get lucky. No, no, nothing like that. 373 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:50.640 It's just these cash prizes add up quick. So I 374 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.000 suggest you sit back, keep your trade table up right, 375 00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:55.519 and start getting lucky pay. 376 00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:58.759 For free at lucky landslipes dot com. Are you feeling lucky? 377 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:02.880 No purchasiness Sarry voydwer prohibited by Law eighteen plus terms 378 00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.319 and conditions applying to a website for details. 379 00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:12.200 Now I was in the workhouse. He realizes now that 380 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:14.720 this is the kind of place he doesn't want to be. 381 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:20.119 He gets out. Does he take this guard's advice? And 382 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:23.200 if he does, what happens? Yeah? 383 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:26.160 So he does, and he gets married to a woman 384 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:30.359 named Alice who is forty three years allt bit the time, 385 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:33.759 and they end up in Florida for a very short 386 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:37.039 period of time. And of course, Wayne Chapman, you know, 387 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.000 had no inferterent hunter sexual relationships with women. He was 388 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:44.920 a six vated pedophile who is homosexual. And you know, 389 00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:47.680 the main selling point with Alice is that she has 390 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:51.000 two sons eleven and fourteen years old, who Wayne Chapman 391 00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:54.920 wanted to test himself to see if he could live 392 00:21:55.039 --> 00:21:58.480 amongst children, while you know, I'm not committing the senses, 393 00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:01.680 and I'm not sure that Alice any idea Jeff Truce 394 00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:04.519 who was inviting into her house, because it wasn't long 395 00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:10.200 before Wayne sexually assaulted both boys. The boys didn't obviously 396 00:22:10.319 --> 00:22:12.960 like Wayne. They didn't believe that, you know, this guy 397 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:16.000 was a good role model or good stepfather, as you 398 00:22:16.039 --> 00:22:19.200 would imagine. And things don't really go well for Wayne 399 00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:22.839 down in Florida, and the boys never came forward. There 400 00:22:22.880 --> 00:22:27.039 was no police reports ever filed. There was no police 401 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:30.640