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<v Speaker 1>In that way.

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<v Speaker 2>In human relationship with man or woman, or between a

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<v Speaker 2>neighbor and so on, the image making is the process

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<v Speaker 2>of registration, right. That is, when a wife says something ugly,

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<v Speaker 2>to listen to it and end it, not to register it,

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<v Speaker 2>you'd see. Or when the husband says something ugly, listen

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<v Speaker 2>to it catholic edit, not carry it on. Then you

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<v Speaker 2>will find that there is no image making at all,

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<v Speaker 2>because if there is no image between the man and

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<v Speaker 2>the woman, then relationship.

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<v Speaker 3>Are quite different, entirely different.

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<v Speaker 2>But when there is an image between the two, the

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<v Speaker 2>relationship is between one thought opposed to one other. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>And that we called relationship, which actually is not. It's

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<v Speaker 2>just an idea that I am, that you're my wife

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<v Speaker 2>or my girlfriend, just an idea. Do you get all this.

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<v Speaker 1>A merty, don't be playing man, ladies and gentlemen. The

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<v Speaker 1>voice of reason has returned to the scene of the conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>I am rejuvenated, back in the building, ready to cook,

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<v Speaker 1>got a barn burner of a topic. Here's the thing,

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<v Speaker 1>And of course this topic is coming from a bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of conversations that I've had recently. And whether it's an

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<v Speaker 1>intimate relationship or a friendship or family member. Man, you

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<v Speaker 1>gotta translate who you really are so their perception of

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<v Speaker 1>you can align with your translation of you. Nah, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not doing it. I'm gonna let you be confused as

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<v Speaker 1>to who you think I am. Do you understand like

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<v Speaker 1>when I was younger, I was with the smoke. I

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<v Speaker 1>want to argue, I want to I want to do

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<v Speaker 1>it all day. I wanna clown. I don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>do that no more. It's a waste of time for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you you feel what I'm saying, like I gotta

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<v Speaker 1>be doing something else. When I was younger, I was

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<v Speaker 1>with it. Yeah, let's let's let's get to it. You're confused,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is why, because nobody knows me better than me.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you understand I am the experience of me internally?

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<v Speaker 1>You are the experience of me externally. You don't understand

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<v Speaker 1>what the inner workings under the hood. I can translate

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<v Speaker 1>myself to you, but I can't rewrite myself for you.

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<v Speaker 1>A deeper investigation into weather intimacy. This is gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>a hard topic, and I know a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk about it too. Listen, nonjudgmental space, you

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<v Speaker 1>can call in. I want to hear your thoughts one

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<v Speaker 1>eight hundred and nine twenty fifteen eighty Do you find

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<v Speaker 1>yourself stuck in a way trying to explain and interpret

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<v Speaker 1>and help your partner understand you have to learn the

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<v Speaker 1>language of their perception in order for them to understand

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<v Speaker 1>man and vice versa. I would say that's a vice

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<v Speaker 1>versa thing. A deeper investigation into whether intimate mastery requires

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<v Speaker 1>learning the language of your partner's perception without rewriting your

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<v Speaker 1>own interior to make their interpretation of you true? Are

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<v Speaker 1>you loving me? Or your interpretation of me?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh?

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<v Speaker 1>My god? True intimacy asks each partner to become fluent

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<v Speaker 1>enough in the other person's perceptual world to understand how

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<v Speaker 1>meaning gets made there. That fluency carries an obligation towards translation,

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<v Speaker 1>not surrender. I may need to learn why my silence

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<v Speaker 1>registers as rejection to you, why my directness lands as hostility,

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<v Speaker 1>Why why are you angry? Why you start turned up?

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<v Speaker 1>Because I'm being misunderstood, because I'm being marginalized. My point

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<v Speaker 1>is being thrown away as if it's as if nothing

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<v Speaker 1>has been said. And then if, if if I intensify

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<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden, I'm not who I am, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm somebody else. Do you see?

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<v Speaker 5>So?

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<v Speaker 1>I may need to learn why my silence registers as

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<v Speaker 1>rejection to you, why my directness comes across as hostility,

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<v Speaker 1>why my need for space awakens fear, or why an

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<v Speaker 1>action I experienced as neutral right acquired an entirely different

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<v Speaker 1>meaning inside of you. Perceptual bilingualism gives love that range.

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<v Speaker 1>It allows two people to cross the distance between separate

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<v Speaker 1>intent without requiring either person to abandon their own point

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<v Speaker 1>of origin. Yes, I said perceptual bilingualism. No, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>a clinical term. But I need to understand the vocabulary

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<v Speaker 1>of your perception and you need to understand the vocabulary

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<v Speaker 1>of mine, or we're gonna run aground. We're not gonna

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<v Speaker 1>understand each other clearly, Do you understand? The deeper conflict

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<v Speaker 1>begins when understanding another person's perception becomes a demand to

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<v Speaker 1>reinterpret yourself through their perception. I won't do it. Have

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<v Speaker 1>you ever had somebody or been with somebody and they

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<v Speaker 1>loved everything about you until there was conflict and then

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<v Speaker 1>everything about you is wrong? Wait, I'm a genius when

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<v Speaker 1>it's all good, but then I'm an a hole when

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<v Speaker 1>we got conflict and somebody saying, well, maybe you're an

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<v Speaker 1>a hole when there's conflict. Yeah, perception, I want to know.

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<v Speaker 1>Your experience of me deserves consideration. Your interpretation of me

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<v Speaker 1>deserves examination. Many people can't stomach the examination of their

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<v Speaker 1>interpretation of another person. They think my interpretation of you

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<v Speaker 1>is the actual truth of who you really are. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>let's go back to Alfred Korzibski. The map is not

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<v Speaker 1>the territory. Your perception of me is a map of me,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not the actual reality of me. And that perception

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<v Speaker 1>could go through some filters, whatever broken relationship construct that

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<v Speaker 1>raised you. Right, you're looking at that person through those filters.

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<v Speaker 1>Your experience of me deserves consideration. Your interpretation of me

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<v Speaker 1>deserves examination. Right neither automatically possesses the final authority over

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<v Speaker 1>who I am, what I intend, or what exists inside

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<v Speaker 1>of me. The same limitation applies to me. I cannot

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<v Speaker 1>use self knowledge as immunity from what you observe. You

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<v Speaker 1>cannot use impact as proof that you possess complete knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>of my interior. Have you ever been truly sorry that

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<v Speaker 1>there was a miscommunication and maybe you said something that

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<v Speaker 1>you wish you didn't say. And you apologize for it,

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<v Speaker 1>and you genuinely say, hey, I apologize for that. That

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<v Speaker 1>was not my intention. I did not mean it, and

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<v Speaker 1>a person turned around and says, yes, you did, totally

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<v Speaker 1>throwing out your sincere apology and your sincere acknowledgement of

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<v Speaker 1>something that you may have done. They throw it out

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<v Speaker 1>as if it's not real. Intimacy requires enough humility for

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<v Speaker 1>both forms of information to remain in the room, to

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<v Speaker 1>remain in the environment right. This makes revisibility indispensable. A

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<v Speaker 1>perception capable of love must remain capable of learning new

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<v Speaker 1>behavior must have some power to disturb old conclusions. Clarification

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<v Speaker 1>must remain eligible right to change meaning. Here's the clarify.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm trying to clarify what I meant, and if you

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<v Speaker 1>truly care about me, you would consider the clarification. If

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<v Speaker 1>I matter, if I have meaning right, the living person

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<v Speaker 1>must retain the right to contradict the image already formed

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<v Speaker 1>of them. If you love me, I should be able

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<v Speaker 1>to contradict the image you have of me. And I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not talking about if I'm abusive or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm simply saying, if I said something that wasn't an

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<v Speaker 1>alignment with your image. First off, you shouldn't take your

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<v Speaker 1>image of me as the real mean anyway. Man, do

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<v Speaker 1>you know how many people I've dated that said you

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<v Speaker 1>the voice of reason? You should have the answer for that. Wait,

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<v Speaker 1>you're gonna you're gonna bring up the radio. You the voice.

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<v Speaker 1>So at no point in my life can I be

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<v Speaker 1>confused about anything. I gotta have an answer on deck

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<v Speaker 1>all the But wait a minute. When I do have answers,

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<v Speaker 1>typically you rebuff those. I don't want your answers. Don't

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<v Speaker 1>this ain't the radio. Don't come in here trying to

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not on your cow. I don't hey what, don't

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<v Speaker 1>try to teach me. But then you, the voice of reason,

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<v Speaker 1>the irony again, the perception capable of love, must remain

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<v Speaker 1>capable of learning new behavior, must have some power to

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<v Speaker 1>disturb old conclusions. When we come forward the voice of reason,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to open up the phone lines. Let's get started.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about tonight's conversation. Question is what is dialogue?

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<v Speaker 6>So dialogue is basically a new way of talking, and

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<v Speaker 6>it's broken down into three parts mirroring, validating, and empathizing.

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<v Speaker 6>And the mirroring is an experience where you listen to

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<v Speaker 6>another person and you get what they're saying and don't

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<v Speaker 6>deflect it. Validating is when you see the logic and

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<v Speaker 6>what they're saying and you don't have to agree with it,

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<v Speaker 6>but you see it and you honor it. And empathy

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<v Speaker 6>is when you experience the emotions they have with what

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<v Speaker 6>they're saying and you really understand that that's the experience. Well,

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<v Speaker 6>the biggest impact that dialogue has owned couples is that

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<v Speaker 6>it transforms the relationship. Incrementally makes it better, but it

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<v Speaker 6>actually transforms the relationship because couples partners begin to see

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<v Speaker 6>each other in a new way, and they begin to

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<v Speaker 6>relate to each other in a new way. What happens

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<v Speaker 6>when you do this dialogue process is that you create

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<v Speaker 6>a place of emotional safety, and in the place of

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<v Speaker 6>emotional safety, people who are there begin to fuel themselves,

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<v Speaker 6>expressing themselves in a new and different way. They become

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<v Speaker 6>vulnerable to each other. And the reason they become vulnerable

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<v Speaker 6>is that in a safe place, there's no judgment. You're

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<v Speaker 6>holding each other's reality, without judgment, without criticism, without any

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<v Speaker 6>kind of blame or disagreement, even of it's simply them

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<v Speaker 6>being themselves and when you hold people in that space,

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<v Speaker 6>the otherness of each other begins to emerge with great

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<v Speaker 6>delineation and clarity. You see the other as not you,

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<v Speaker 6>and they see you as not them. And when that

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<v Speaker 6>otherness emerges, then what can happen is connection at a

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<v Speaker 6>very deep level. And we think that also what happens

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<v Speaker 6>here is that love can be born, because love is,

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<v Speaker 6>in fact, two people who are an other to each other,

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<v Speaker 6>caring for each other's welfare and being an advocate of

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<v Speaker 6>each other's potential, the fascinating part of the.

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<v Speaker 1>Other to each other. I love that. That was great?

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<v Speaker 1>Who was that? Andy? He was cooking with the rarest Grease,

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<v Speaker 1>Harville Hendricks ba bah bah bah he was cooking with

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<v Speaker 1>the rares Grease. You know already know who these people are.

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<v Speaker 1>I just love to ask Andy, Andy be keeping me

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<v Speaker 1>on point here. Ish. Tonight's topic is one of those topics.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you ever felt misunderstood by your partner over and

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<v Speaker 1>over again? You feel like you're having the same conver

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<v Speaker 1>or even your friends where sometimes their strength and just

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<v Speaker 1>not responding. Oh, you going out of your way to

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<v Speaker 1>misinterpret me. You making what I said align with what

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<v Speaker 1>you think I meant. You don't want to know what

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<v Speaker 1>I meant. You have no care for what I actually meant,

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<v Speaker 1>because if you did, you would have did some investigation

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<v Speaker 1>in your communication. You would have said, wait a minute,

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<v Speaker 1>what do you mean by that? Can you expound before

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<v Speaker 1>I give you my final evaluation? All right, let me

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<v Speaker 1>say it again. A perception capable of love must remain

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<v Speaker 1>capable of learning. If you're in a conversation with your friend,

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<v Speaker 1>your lover, your family members, and you're not trying to

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<v Speaker 1>learn from them, you're not communicating like I really want

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<v Speaker 1>to know where you're coming from. I'm not trying to

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<v Speaker 1>learn the language of your perception. I'm trying to impose

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<v Speaker 1>my perception of who I think you are onto you.

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<v Speaker 1>How many people have you dealt with that are like that?

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<v Speaker 1>Twenty fifteen eighty listen to one of my new behaviors.

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<v Speaker 1>Must have some power to disturb old conclusions. I've always

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<v Speaker 1>thought that about you. Wait a minute, and then when

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<v Speaker 1>they do something different, they now you're surprised. I never

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<v Speaker 1>thought you would do that, of course, because you're leaning

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<v Speaker 1>on old conclusions. Clarification must remain eligible to change meaning.

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<v Speaker 1>In other words, if I bring clarity clarification for what

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<v Speaker 1>is going on. You should be able to recontextualize that image.

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<v Speaker 1>The living person must retain the right to contradict the

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<v Speaker 1>image already formed of them. Once perception becomes impossible to revise,

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<v Speaker 1>communication changes function. Explanation no longer carries new information. It

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<v Speaker 1>becomes evidence possessed by a verdict already reached. When I

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<v Speaker 1>come forward the voice of reason, we're going to continue

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<v Speaker 1>cooking up this few right now.

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<v Speaker 7>So with that conceptual background, I'd like to attempt a

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<v Speaker 7>description of empathy which would seem satisfactory to me today.

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<v Speaker 7>I would no longer be termining it a state of empathy,

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<v Speaker 7>which was in my earlier definition, because I believe it

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<v Speaker 7>to be a process rather than a state, And perhaps

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<v Speaker 7>I can capture that quality the way of being with

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<v Speaker 7>another person, which is termed empathic as several facets. It

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<v Speaker 7>means entering the private, perceptual world of the other and

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<v Speaker 7>becoming thoroughly at home in it.

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<v Speaker 1>Hmm.

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<v Speaker 7>It involves having sensitive, being sensitive moment to moment to

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<v Speaker 7>the changing felt meanings.

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<v Speaker 1>Nah positives, hold on, hold on, is that my homeboy, Marshall? Wait?

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<v Speaker 1>Who is that? That's positive? Unconditional positive regard Carl Rogers.

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<v Speaker 1>Hold on, he said. Empathy is entering the perceptual world

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<v Speaker 1>of another. I'm gonna let it. We're gonna start him over.

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<v Speaker 1>But have you ever been grieving? Maybe you lost a job,

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<v Speaker 1>you lost a girlfriend, you lost a boyfriend, uh, you

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<v Speaker 1>lost a family member. And people will say I I'm

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<v Speaker 1>gonna give you some time, and then they determine how

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<v Speaker 1>much time you need. Then they come back talking crazy,

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<v Speaker 1>as if you weren't grieving when they said they was

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<v Speaker 1>gonna get So do you understand what I'm saying? People

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<v Speaker 1>are so selfish Sometimes they want you to show up

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<v Speaker 1>the way they need you when they need you. So

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<v Speaker 1>in one moment, is I okay, I'm oh you you grieving?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh this is heavy. Okay, I'm gonna give you a

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<v Speaker 1>little time. Say a week go by, you should be good.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we should have had a conversation. I've been trying

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<v Speaker 1>to have. Wait, what so you gonna put a time

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<v Speaker 1>limit on When it's been a week, you should be

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<v Speaker 1>good and will come back talking to you as crazy

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<v Speaker 1>as they did before. See, I done got to the

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<v Speaker 1>point in my life when I stop talking to you.

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<v Speaker 1>That's all the indication you need from me. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>stop talking, man, play Carl Rogers man unconditional positive regard.

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<v Speaker 7>So with that conceptual background, I'd like to attempt a

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<v Speaker 7>description of empathy which would seem satisfactory to me today.

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<v Speaker 7>I would no longer be termining it a state of empathy,

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<v Speaker 7>which was in my earlier definition, because I believe it

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<v Speaker 7>to be a process rather than a state, and perhaps

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<v Speaker 7>I can capture that quality. The way of being with

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<v Speaker 7>another person, which is termed empathic as several facets. It

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<v Speaker 7>means entering the private, perceptual world of the other and

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<v Speaker 7>becoming thoroughly at home in it. It involves having sensed it,

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<v Speaker 7>being said sensitive moment to moment, to the changing felt

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<v Speaker 7>meanings which flow in this other person, to the fear

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<v Speaker 7>or rage or tenderness or confusion or whatever that he

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<v Speaker 7>or she is experiencing. It means temporarily living in his life,

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<v Speaker 7>moving about in it.

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<v Speaker 1>Pause. Do you hear what he explained? Andy's shaking his head.

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<v Speaker 1>Andy in here like damn, Because that's the real He's

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<v Speaker 1>explaining the real reality of what it is to be

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<v Speaker 1>in relationship with somebody and be in their perceptual reality

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<v Speaker 1>from an empathetic lens. That's what it is Man, do

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<v Speaker 1>you know how many people don't know how to be

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<v Speaker 1>with another human being as their raw human selves? Carl

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<v Speaker 1>Rogers is explaining it right there, Bring it back twenty

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<v Speaker 1>seconds because he's on complete fire.

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<v Speaker 7>Being sensitive moment to moment, do the changing felt meanings

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<v Speaker 7>which flow in this other person to the fear or

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<v Speaker 7>rage or tenderness or confusion or whatever that he or

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<v Speaker 7>she is experiencing. It means temporarily living in his life,

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<v Speaker 7>moving about in it delicately without making judgments, sensing meanings

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<v Speaker 7>of which he is scarcely aware, but not trying to

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<v Speaker 7>uncover feelings of which he is totally unaware.

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<v Speaker 1>Pause without making judgments. Man, if you going through something

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<v Speaker 1>and you say something crazy to me, it's up and

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<v Speaker 1>it's stuck. Am I lying? Andy? I'm not even here

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<v Speaker 1>to understand what you're going through. Can't you see I'm

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<v Speaker 1>trying to help you. So because you care about me,

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<v Speaker 1>that means you get to disrespect me all in the

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<v Speaker 1>name of care. Right let him finish, Andy, I'm sorry.

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<v Speaker 7>It includes communicating your sensings of his world as you

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<v Speaker 7>look with fresh and unfrightened eyes at elements of which

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<v Speaker 7>he is fearful. It means frequently checking with him as

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<v Speaker 7>to the accuracy of your sensings and being guided by

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<v Speaker 7>his responses. You are a confident companion to him in

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<v Speaker 7>his world by pinting to the possible meanings in the

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<v Speaker 7>flow of his or herds.

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<v Speaker 1>Wait, wait, bring it back, Andy, at least thirty more seconds.

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<v Speaker 1>He's just dropping too much, he said. You a companion

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<v Speaker 1>in his world. You're not in control. You're walking with

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<v Speaker 1>his process. Do you understand being in that perceptual world? No,

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<v Speaker 1>don't nobody communicate like that. What's wrong with you? You got

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<v Speaker 1>to get right so I can be good again with you.

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<v Speaker 7>Go ahead andie this world as you look with fresh

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<v Speaker 7>and unfrightened eyes at elements of which he is fearful.

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<v Speaker 7>It means frequently checking with him as to the accuracy

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<v Speaker 7>of your sensings and being guided by his responses. You

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<v Speaker 7>are a confident companion to him in his world. By

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<v Speaker 7>pinting to the possible meanings in the flow of his

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<v Speaker 7>or her experiencing, you help him to focus on this

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<v Speaker 7>useful type of reference, to experience his meanings more fully,

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<v Speaker 7>and to move forward in his or her experiencing.

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<v Speaker 1>Nah, this is too good to be true. Andy. People

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<v Speaker 1>don't do that. People only care about their time, their

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<v Speaker 1>co attribution, and their energy to another person, and ultimately

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<v Speaker 1>they want to pay off from that. They could care

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<v Speaker 1>less about the person they're dealing with. Listen what I

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<v Speaker 1>Once perception becomes impossible to revise, Communication changes function, Explanation

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00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:24.079
<v Speaker 1>no longer carries new information. It becomes evidence possessed by

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<v Speaker 1>a verdict already reached. The more one partner explains, the

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<v Speaker 1>more they may find themselves editing the source rather than

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00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:40.240
<v Speaker 1>improving the translations. DC That marks the threshold. I can

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<v Speaker 1>translate my experience into language you can receive. I can

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<v Speaker 1>reconsider myself when your perception reveals something I have failed

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<v Speaker 1>to see. But I cannot rewrite my interior merely to

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<v Speaker 1>make your interpretation of me correct. There are so many

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<v Speaker 1>people who just don't want to know what's going on

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<v Speaker 1>with you. They just want the end result that they

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<v Speaker 1>showed up to receive from you. Listen, when we come forward,

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<v Speaker 1>the voice of reason is going to keep this fire lit.

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<v Speaker 4>I was working with twenty three psychiatrists in one community,

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<v Speaker 4>and I was giving them an exercise on empathic connection,

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<v Speaker 4>and I asked them to write down what they would

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<v Speaker 4>say to people to empathically connect with them who expressed

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<v Speaker 4>certain things. So one of the things that I've said,

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<v Speaker 4>in the role of a patient that came to see

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<v Speaker 4>them was, I'm feeling so depressed. I don't know that

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<v Speaker 4>I want to keep alive. I think the world would

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<v Speaker 4>be better off without me. And I asked each of

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<v Speaker 4>them to write down what would be an imp ethic

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<v Speaker 4>reaction to this person's statement. I would then ask them

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<v Speaker 4>to hand in these responses they made, and then I said,

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<v Speaker 4>I'm going to read each of these out loud, and

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<v Speaker 4>I'd like you to raise your hand. If you were

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<v Speaker 4>that person expressing this pain, that you would really feel

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<v Speaker 4>an empathic connection, an understanding of what you were feeling

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<v Speaker 4>and needing hands.

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<v Speaker 1>Who is this Andy? I think I know? Is is

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<v Speaker 1>this Marshall? That Rosenberg?

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<v Speaker 4>Right?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, I'm gonna go back to them, but hold tight.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't be empathic if you're holding a grudge. That's

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<v Speaker 1>why most of y'all misinterpret what your person is saying.

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<v Speaker 1>They have offended the image you've held in your mine

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<v Speaker 1>about them, and once they've offended that image, you start

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<v Speaker 1>building a case file, a dossier. This is what it

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<v Speaker 1>is when the image is defiled. Now you can defile

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<v Speaker 1>the person. It could be a person you once respected.

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<v Speaker 1>And why is it that, in your misinterpretation or your

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<v Speaker 1>declaration of what you think the person is, you get

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<v Speaker 1>to be nasty, disrespectful, condescending, and then wrap it all

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<v Speaker 1>up as the truth. Oh, I'm just telling the truth.

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<v Speaker 1>What I can't translate myself to fit your perception of me.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm no longer going listen when I'm explaining something to you.

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<v Speaker 1>That's me caring enough to do so. Right, I'm saying, Hey,

359
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<v Speaker 1>how you see it is not exactly the way it is.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me give you some context, let me expound and

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<v Speaker 1>share with you what's going on. If you right, or

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<v Speaker 1>if you are like inflexible and you don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>change your perspective after I've given you context, then that

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<v Speaker 1>means you've already passed the verdict before you got the information.

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<v Speaker 1>You see, I can't. I'm at a point now where

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<v Speaker 1>there's power in skipping the translation. I can translate my

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<v Speaker 1>experience into language you might be able to receive. I

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<v Speaker 1>can also reconsider myself when your perception reveals something I

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<v Speaker 1>may have failed to see some blind spots that I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't see. I can also rewrite well before I even

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<v Speaker 1>go there, let me stop, let me say it again.

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<v Speaker 1>I can reconsider myself when your perception reveals something I

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<v Speaker 1>have failed to see. So when you're talking to your

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<v Speaker 1>partner and they point out something that you may have missed,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you come back and say, you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>You're right, I did miss that. Thank you for that clarification.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me reorganize my perception around the blind spots you revealed.

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<v Speaker 1>And then they act like they're superior to you because

379
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:08.839
<v Speaker 1>they showed you something. And first off, it is a

380
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<v Speaker 1>gift to be acknowledged, and that goes both ways. When

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00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:16.680
<v Speaker 1>you acknowledge, like if your partner actually shows you a

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00:31:16.680 --> 00:31:20.200
<v Speaker 1>blind spot, thank you, that's gratitude, thank you so much

383
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:23.039
<v Speaker 1>for showing me that. I didn't see that. But they

384
00:31:23.119 --> 00:31:26.400
<v Speaker 1>act like they're superior to you because they did that,

385
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:32.880
<v Speaker 1>and that reinforces their sense of rightness. You remember the

386
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:36.880
<v Speaker 1>last time I showed you something you missed? Do you

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<v Speaker 1>understand what I'm saying? Here's the central question. Can two

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00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:51.920
<v Speaker 1>people learn each other's perceptual language deeply enough to understand

389
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<v Speaker 1>one another while remaining free enough to revise what they believe,

390
00:32:00.200 --> 00:32:04.720
<v Speaker 1>disagree without erasing each other, and allow the person they

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00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:10.039
<v Speaker 1>love to remain larger than the interpretation they have formed

392
00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:20.920
<v Speaker 1>of them. It's I don't seen it. People can go

393
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.480
<v Speaker 1>It's almost like they going through something. Oh, this person

394
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:27.319
<v Speaker 1>is going through something. They're experiencing grief. I'm gonna wait

395
00:32:27.799 --> 00:32:31.200
<v Speaker 1>for the grief to subside before I continue my war

396
00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:36.519
<v Speaker 1>with them, the war of who I think they are

397
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:45.039
<v Speaker 1>versus who they really are, and that a deeper I

398
00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:49.519
<v Speaker 1>can translate myself to you, I can't rewrite myself for you.

399
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<v Speaker 1>A deeper investigation into whether healthy relationship communication ends and

400
00:32:55.839 --> 00:33:00.720
<v Speaker 1>self abandonment begins when your partner's perception demands a different

401
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:05.200
<v Speaker 1>version of you Gosh one eight hundred nine twenty fifteen

402
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:15.720
<v Speaker 1>eighty translation versus alteration? Geesh, are you loving me or

403
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:20.640
<v Speaker 1>your interpretation of me? What happens to emotional intimacy when

404
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.799
<v Speaker 1>your image of your partner becomes more powerful than the

405
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:30.839
<v Speaker 1>person standing in front of you? Gosh, I can't become

406
00:33:31.319 --> 00:33:36.039
<v Speaker 1>your version of me? How about that? I simply can't

407
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:42.279
<v Speaker 1>become your version of me. A deeper investigation and intriguing

408
00:33:42.359 --> 00:33:47.680
<v Speaker 1>investigation into whether understanding your partner requires learning their perspective

409
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:58.759
<v Speaker 1>without surrendering your identity to their interpretation. When your perception

410
00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:06.920
<v Speaker 1>of me becomes when I come forward, I'm gonna give

411
00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:09.000
<v Speaker 1>you to rest it out. When this is on fire tonight,

412
00:34:09.039 --> 00:34:11.159
<v Speaker 1>we got callers calling it. We're about to take it

413
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:11.920
<v Speaker 1>over the top.

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<v Speaker 8>So let's start with what I heard. Men have used

415
00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:27.400
<v Speaker 8>you as a sex object. Okay. There's a lot of

416
00:34:27.559 --> 00:34:31.760
<v Speaker 8>women here and men who can identify with that. Okay,

417
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:34.559
<v Speaker 8>so let's hear what you've written.

418
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:45.559
<v Speaker 9>I am angry and saddened by I could put so

419
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:48.000
<v Speaker 9>many names in here, but I just wrote men.

420
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:56.079
<v Speaker 8>Because they win my trust and then they betray me. Okay,

421
00:34:56.159 --> 00:35:01.480
<v Speaker 8>So what's an example of Okay, turn that around. Let's

422
00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:05.599
<v Speaker 8>turn it around that I win my trust and then

423
00:35:05.639 --> 00:35:09.480
<v Speaker 8>I betray myself. I win their trust and then I

424
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:10.159
<v Speaker 8>betray them.

425
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:13.760
<v Speaker 2>I win their trust and then I betray them.

426
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:18.599
<v Speaker 8>And how do you do that? By not telling them

427
00:35:18.679 --> 00:35:24.199
<v Speaker 8>how I really feel? Yes? Yes, by not telling them

428
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:25.679
<v Speaker 8>how she really feels.

429
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:29.559
<v Speaker 7>Because I'm afraid to show my pain to them.

430
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:32.760
<v Speaker 8>And because you don't let them know, they just keep

431
00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:37.880
<v Speaker 8>doing what they're doing. Thinking you both agree on it, right, Yeah.

432
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:41.800
<v Speaker 1>But I can't find that voice, honey, I mean.

433
00:35:41.679 --> 00:35:43.480
<v Speaker 7>I want to find it.

434
00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:49.079
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, I'm afraid to say it. Yeah. If I want

435
00:35:49.239 --> 00:35:53.440
<v Speaker 8>something from my husband, I can do all kinds of

436
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.679
<v Speaker 8>lies about around it. I can be his sex goddess.

437
00:35:56.920 --> 00:35:58.880
<v Speaker 8>I can cook him as great meal. I can do

438
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:01.599
<v Speaker 8>all this stuff so he'll give me what I want,

439
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:06.559
<v Speaker 8>you see. Or I can just say, you know, honey,

440
00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:09.519
<v Speaker 8>I'm going to do all of this and then will

441
00:36:09.559 --> 00:36:11.719
<v Speaker 8>you do this? Well, first I'll ask him, will you

442
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:14.800
<v Speaker 8>just do this? And if he says no, I say, well,

443
00:36:14.800 --> 00:36:16.760
<v Speaker 8>what about this barter system?

444
00:36:16.960 --> 00:36:17.159
<v Speaker 3>You know?

445
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.719
<v Speaker 8>What if I cook for you? What if I love you?

446
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:23.400
<v Speaker 8>What if I you know? Or at least pretend you

447
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:28.199
<v Speaker 8>know all of this because you do or you don't?

448
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:30.760
<v Speaker 8>You do, you do, you don't? You know, depending on

449
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:39.519
<v Speaker 8>what you get or what you want. So I can

450
00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:41.960
<v Speaker 8>be honest with him, But you see, what it could

451
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:47.880
<v Speaker 8>cost me is what I want. So I delude myself.

452
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:51.440
<v Speaker 8>I'm his sex goddess, I'm the great cook. I sacrifice

453
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:53.800
<v Speaker 8>my whole life and he still doesn't give me what

454
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:58.280
<v Speaker 8>I want. So I'm angry at him. I think he's psychic,

455
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:05.480
<v Speaker 8>you know, And it turns out he's not. He's not.

456
00:37:06.199 --> 00:37:08.840
<v Speaker 8>So now I just ask but I don't try to

457
00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:13.679
<v Speaker 8>buy it with my body, or am I cooking? See now,

458
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:19.440
<v Speaker 8>I have honest sex and I cook honestly. I do

459
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:19.920
<v Speaker 8>it for me.

460
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:29.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, looking too, Ladies and gentlemen. Who the Voice of

461
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:36.280
<v Speaker 1>Reason is on complete fire tonight? Andy? Who is that Byron? Katie?

462
00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:39.559
<v Speaker 1>Got got got got got got out here cooking with

463
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:42.199
<v Speaker 1>the rares Grease? Tonight's topic is a deep one man.

464
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:45.440
<v Speaker 1>We got callers on the line. I want to get

465
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:50.280
<v Speaker 1>to him, our number two, the Voice of Reason, non

466
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:53.199
<v Speaker 1>judgmental zone. If you want to join the conversation, all

467
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:54.320
<v Speaker 1>you have to do is call us at one eight

468
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:58.960
<v Speaker 1>hundred and nine twenty fifteen eighty. When your perception of

469
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:04.800
<v Speaker 1>me becomes more real to you than I am. How projection,

470
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:10.960
<v Speaker 1>relationship history, and fixed interpretations can make two people stop

471
00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:16.960
<v Speaker 1>encountering each other in the present. Is your relationship experiencing that?

472
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:21.840
<v Speaker 1>How long do I have to keep explaining who I

473
00:38:21.880 --> 00:38:29.480
<v Speaker 1>am to you? Hey? An intriguing look into when relationship

474
00:38:29.519 --> 00:38:36.760
<v Speaker 1>communications stop creating understanding and start becoming an endless trial

475
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:47.440
<v Speaker 1>against your partner's perception. I'm exhausted explaining who I am. See,

476
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:52.360
<v Speaker 1>here's the thing I have to explain who I am

477
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:56.760
<v Speaker 1>because you've never accepted who I am. You're only on

478
00:38:56.920 --> 00:39:01.480
<v Speaker 1>board and at the table for negotiation with the version

479
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:08.559
<v Speaker 1>of me that you accept that you want. Huh one

480
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:12.719
<v Speaker 1>fifteen eighty You heard my words? But did you hear me?

481
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:19.119
<v Speaker 1>Why couples can communicate constantly yet remain strangers to the

482
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:27.079
<v Speaker 1>meaning behind each other's words? Yikes? Let me ask it

483
00:39:27.119 --> 00:39:30.199
<v Speaker 1>another question another way, because I'm tired of playing with y'all.

484
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:38.039
<v Speaker 1>Are you fluent in the person you love? Are you

485
00:39:38.119 --> 00:39:42.079
<v Speaker 1>fluent in them? Because your damn show? Fluent in you?

486
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:51.519
<v Speaker 1>Because whenever there's a conflict, you're understanding Trump's theirs, don't don't,

487
00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:54.559
<v Speaker 1>don't act brand new tonight because I'm calling it out?

488
00:39:55.280 --> 00:40:03.559
<v Speaker 1>Are you fluent in the person you love? Fascinating investigation

489
00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:13.480
<v Speaker 1>exploration into perceptual bilingualism, partner understanding and whether two people

490
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:19.440
<v Speaker 1>can learn each other's language without losing fluency in their own?

491
00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:24.239
<v Speaker 1>Do you really know me? Are you concerned about what

492
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:31.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm concerned about? Stop making me prove I'm not who

493
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:38.559
<v Speaker 1>you decided I am. What happens when every explanation, apology, emotion,

494
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:44.159
<v Speaker 1>and silence gets used to confirm your partner's existing story

495
00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:48.840
<v Speaker 1>about you fifteen eighty. We got callers on the line.

496
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:50.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna get him in here right now. Who's been

497
00:40:50.840 --> 00:40:56.360
<v Speaker 1>on the longest, Denver, Colorado CALLI from Denver, Colorado. What

498
00:40:56.400 --> 00:40:57.920
<v Speaker 1>are your thoughts on tonight's topic.

499
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:09.920
<v Speaker 10>I'm triggered and I don't do it.

500
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:12.360
<v Speaker 1>You should be triggered.

501
00:41:12.519 --> 00:41:21.599
<v Speaker 10>Yes, I definitely appreciate the topic as I was. I've

502
00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:26.719
<v Speaker 10>experienced this recently with the companion of mine where it

503
00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:31.360
<v Speaker 10>was communicating. They sent a message and I just sent

504
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:35.480
<v Speaker 10>what I thought in the moment that would be funny back.

505
00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:40.880
<v Speaker 10>And I did did contemplate before I sent what I

506
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:45.280
<v Speaker 10>sent to ask for clarification, but I pushed it. I

507
00:41:45.400 --> 00:41:49.800
<v Speaker 10>plowed straight past that thought and just went to straight

508
00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:58.239
<v Speaker 10>to what I thought. And Yeah, again, I definitely appreciate

509
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:01.320
<v Speaker 10>the topic tonight because I'm like, totally confirms that I

510
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:05.159
<v Speaker 10>should spend more time doing some investigative work when I'm

511
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:09.440
<v Speaker 10>unclear about something that someone is saying, because that's how

512
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:16.679
<v Speaker 10>so how mess becomes mess in relationships and resentments become resentments.

513
00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, let's go even deeper. You said investigative work, Well,

514
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:26.199
<v Speaker 1>what kind of investigative work. Let's play the word game.

515
00:42:26.559 --> 00:42:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Investigative work is one way? What's some other ways?

516
00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:35.199
<v Speaker 10>I would just say, asking a simple question in the

517
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:36.480
<v Speaker 10>moment to get clarity.

518
00:42:36.679 --> 00:42:40.920
<v Speaker 1>That's investigative. I like that. That's investigative. Let's see it.

519
00:42:40.960 --> 00:42:42.079
<v Speaker 1>Are there other ways?

520
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:48.360
<v Speaker 11>Silence?

521
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:58.159
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Mindfulness? Wow? How novel of an idea? Mindfulness? How

522
00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:03.840
<v Speaker 1>about sit down? Just be still? Ain't that what big

523
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Mama say? Here's a piece of candy? Be still? So

524
00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:09.519
<v Speaker 1>that's the mindfulness? What else?

525
00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:14.960
<v Speaker 10>I think empathy too.

526
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:21.800
<v Speaker 1>Goes along with yes, yes, now we're cooking. You've given

527
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:26.159
<v Speaker 1>them a blueprint. You said investigate. So is the investigation

528
00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:31.199
<v Speaker 1>an inward investigation like self inquiry, like I'm looking inside

529
00:43:31.280 --> 00:43:32.039
<v Speaker 1>in crey? Right?

530
00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:37.519
<v Speaker 10>I think there is that, and then there's also, you know,

531
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.440
<v Speaker 10>with your loved one as well with whoever you're doing

532
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:41.920
<v Speaker 10>with this outside of you.

533
00:43:42.039 --> 00:43:42.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

534
00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:48.039
<v Speaker 1>So you gave the investigative piece, you gave the mindfulness piece. Uh,

535
00:43:48.199 --> 00:43:52.360
<v Speaker 1>then you gave an empathy piece trying to understand where

536
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:56.119
<v Speaker 1>they're coming from. Right? Do you think the lack of

537
00:43:56.159 --> 00:44:02.519
<v Speaker 1>those three things is what actually creates this kind of intransient,

538
00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:11.599
<v Speaker 1>kind of intractable, you know, unforgiveness energy that many people experience.

539
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:16.000
<v Speaker 10>Yeah, because if you have many moments like that. It

540
00:44:16.119 --> 00:44:19.280
<v Speaker 10>just piles up and piles up and piles up, or

541
00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:22.639
<v Speaker 10>packs down and packs down and packs down until somebody explodes.

542
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:27.039
<v Speaker 10>And then maybe something that is in a moment not

543
00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:31.079
<v Speaker 10>necessarily a big deal. It's like, whoa, you're blown up

544
00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:34.599
<v Speaker 10>about that, right, And it's like, nah, it was two

545
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:37.639
<v Speaker 10>months worth of stuff for two years, or you know whatever.

546
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:41.760
<v Speaker 10>How many other times I suppressed my thoughts or went

547
00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:44.920
<v Speaker 10>too deep into my thoughts and fun out, went down

548
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:52.039
<v Speaker 10>the rabbit hole of my own deceptive illusions, started painting

549
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.039
<v Speaker 10>a picture of this person that wasn't true.

550
00:44:54.599 --> 00:44:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Wow, I love it. I love it. This is good stuff. Cally's.

551
00:45:00.079 --> 00:45:03.840
<v Speaker 1>So you're on the smooth Sounds of Zoe Williams's Voice

552
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.199
<v Speaker 1>of Reason live on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. I just

553
00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:10.400
<v Speaker 1>have one question to ask you, young lady. Guess what

554
00:45:10.519 --> 00:45:11.480
<v Speaker 1>you just did.

555
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:14.000
<v Speaker 10>Brought Denver into the building.

556
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:17.119
<v Speaker 1>Denver, Colorado is in the building. If you want to

557
00:45:17.119 --> 00:45:19.239
<v Speaker 1>bring your city in the building to join this non

558
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:22.039
<v Speaker 1>judgmental conversation, all you gotta do is call us at

559
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:24.599
<v Speaker 1>one eight hundred nine twenty fifteen eighty. Listen, we got

560
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:27.719
<v Speaker 1>more callers on the line. Let's get them in here.

561
00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:30.679
<v Speaker 1>You already know what it is. We got the legendary

562
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:35.960
<v Speaker 1>Deaconess Nicki from the SIP is in the building, Nicki.

563
00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:38.440
<v Speaker 1>What are your thoughts on tonight's topic?

564
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:46.519
<v Speaker 10>So the fam Hey, Hey, food for thought.

565
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:48.360
<v Speaker 1>Food for thought. Here we go.

566
00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:57.480
<v Speaker 11>Isn't it interesting? Particularly in family relationships around grieving, that

567
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:03.719
<v Speaker 11>experience brings forward this word perception, which has to do

568
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:11.079
<v Speaker 11>with experiencing people who you say you love through your

569
00:46:11.239 --> 00:46:19.239
<v Speaker 11>senses see here touch tastemau. I find often in familial

570
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:25.039
<v Speaker 11>relationships where perception is concerned, the people who you have

571
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:29.679
<v Speaker 11>the most trouble with understand that perception is their reality.

572
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:40.519
<v Speaker 11>They're not necessarily in tune with the deeper, particularly if

573
00:46:40.559 --> 00:46:44.519
<v Speaker 11>you're a person who is showing up real as yourself

574
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:51.480
<v Speaker 11>to people who don't operate in real self realms. They

575
00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:57.800
<v Speaker 11>only stay in perceived realms. That's why it's easy for

576
00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:01.480
<v Speaker 11>them to say, there's a times on how long you

577
00:47:01.559 --> 00:47:03.840
<v Speaker 11>get to be grieving before I come back to you

578
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:16.480
<v Speaker 11>with whatever that it is, because in reality, one cannot

579
00:47:16.480 --> 00:47:21.159
<v Speaker 11>put a time stamp on another person's grief. You can

580
00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:25.639
<v Speaker 11>observe their behavior to determine where they are in it,

581
00:47:26.199 --> 00:47:29.440
<v Speaker 11>but not if you operate in the realm of perception.

582
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:42.079
<v Speaker 11>Then you asked earlier what happened when in relationships there

583
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:46.039
<v Speaker 11>is a breakdown in the translation. Well, particularly if you've

584
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:48.920
<v Speaker 11>had an opportunity to be exposed to the real me

585
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:54.440
<v Speaker 11>and you still operate in perception, what happens is you

586
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:56.280
<v Speaker 11>get to experience the absence of me.

587
00:47:56.840 --> 00:48:05.079
<v Speaker 1>Wait, wait, hold on, don't go nowhere, Nikki, Nikki out here?

588
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:10.599
<v Speaker 1>Why now you get to experience the void when we

589
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:14.559
<v Speaker 1>come forward? More from Niki from the sill.

590
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:23.440
<v Speaker 3>This is UH the practice of the fourth mindful extraining, loving, peace,

591
00:48:23.760 --> 00:48:30.960
<v Speaker 3>loving speech, and deep listening. H A bodhisa is someone

592
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:35.800
<v Speaker 3>who can talk. He can speak with a kind of

593
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:47.000
<v Speaker 3>language called gentle loving speech. Is someone who can listen

594
00:48:47.119 --> 00:48:53.079
<v Speaker 3>with compassion. And if you can for three days, you

595
00:48:53.239 --> 00:48:57.679
<v Speaker 3>might become able and you might talk to him or

596
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.920
<v Speaker 3>to her with that kind of langue wish and you

597
00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:05.280
<v Speaker 3>might listen to him to her with that kind of compassion.

598
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:10.920
<v Speaker 3>You don't have to stractice ten years in order to

599
00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:19.480
<v Speaker 3>do that. A few days maybe enough. Father that I

600
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:26.840
<v Speaker 3>know you have suffered so much in the past many years,

601
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:31.800
<v Speaker 3>I was not able to help you to suffer less. Instead,

602
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:39.800
<v Speaker 3>I have reacted angrily in such a way that makes

603
00:49:39.840 --> 00:49:44.920
<v Speaker 3>the situation worse. That they is not my intention to

604
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:48.519
<v Speaker 3>make you suffer. That's only because I did not see

605
00:49:48.519 --> 00:49:52.000
<v Speaker 3>the suffering in you. I did not understand the suffering

606
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:55.559
<v Speaker 3>in you. So please that they tell me what is

607
00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:59.880
<v Speaker 3>in your heart. Tell me what is in the difficulties,

608
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:07.559
<v Speaker 3>no despair, the conflict in your heart. Please help me

609
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:11.880
<v Speaker 3>so that I will understand. If I understand, I will

610
00:50:11.920 --> 00:50:15.760
<v Speaker 3>not act like the way I have in the past.

611
00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:19.039
<v Speaker 3>Please help me. If you don't have me, who will help.

612
00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:24.039
<v Speaker 3>That is the kind of loving speech, kind speech that

613
00:50:24.840 --> 00:50:27.039
<v Speaker 3>you can you can do, you can heuse.

614
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:35.119
<v Speaker 1>That's the homie teach not Han rest in peace. Born

615
00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:38.880
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen twenty six, passed away in nineteen twenty two.

616
00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:41.800
<v Speaker 1>He was speaking of the energy of a bodies satphah.

617
00:50:42.320 --> 00:50:44.880
<v Speaker 1>Just being in the very presence of a bodies satfah

618
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:50.840
<v Speaker 1>uh induces some type of self realization. And he was saying,

619
00:50:50.840 --> 00:50:56.559
<v Speaker 1>you only need two days in their presence, not years.

620
00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:02.320
<v Speaker 1>That was very interesting and I'm a big believer in that.

621
00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:09.639
<v Speaker 1>I believe the mask creates perception, right, and we have

622
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:12.360
<v Speaker 1>a perception of ourselves, which is the mask. We want

623
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:15.519
<v Speaker 1>people to accept that perception. We try to project it

624
00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:18.920
<v Speaker 1>out onto others, and then we have a perception of

625
00:51:19.079 --> 00:51:24.559
<v Speaker 1>others and we want them to accept our perception of them.

626
00:51:25.760 --> 00:51:27.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna tell you right now, I don't give a

627
00:51:27.440 --> 00:51:31.920
<v Speaker 1>damn who you think I am. Whatever you think of

628
00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:38.440
<v Speaker 1>me can't be true because it's coming from you. It

629
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:43.480
<v Speaker 1>can't be true because I'm me. Now. You might be

630
00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:46.400
<v Speaker 1>able to experience me in a certain way. You might

631
00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:52.440
<v Speaker 1>be able to ascertain from your perspective through your lens,

632
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:57.760
<v Speaker 1>maybe a fractal right of the totality of who I

633
00:51:57.800 --> 00:52:02.280
<v Speaker 1>am as a being, But your definition of that fractal

634
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:10.760
<v Speaker 1>means absolutely nothing to me. Stop making me prove I'm

635
00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:15.119
<v Speaker 1>not who you decided I am. And many people in

636
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:21.119
<v Speaker 1>relationships are dating the image, are loving on the image right,

637
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:26.679
<v Speaker 1>and this is why they never make contact with the

638
00:52:26.719 --> 00:52:32.360
<v Speaker 1>real person. Nikki from the sip, stay with me. I'm

639
00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:34.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna carry you to the other side because I want

640
00:52:34.400 --> 00:52:36.760
<v Speaker 1>you to have time to land your plane and then

641
00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:40.039
<v Speaker 1>we're going to go to OKAC. When we come forward,

642
00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:43.000
<v Speaker 1>the callers are still coming in. Let's get it today.

643
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:45.880
<v Speaker 12>I'll talk about consciousness and the interface theory of perception.

644
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:50.840
<v Speaker 12>One third of your brain's cortex is engaged in vision.

645
00:52:51.639 --> 00:52:55.840
<v Speaker 12>When you simply open your eyes and look around, you're

646
00:52:55.920 --> 00:53:00.360
<v Speaker 12>using billions of neurons and trillions of synapses just to

647
00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:05.559
<v Speaker 12>see the world in this room. This might be a

648
00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:09.519
<v Speaker 12>bit surprising to most of us because to the extent

649
00:53:09.559 --> 00:53:11.000
<v Speaker 12>that we think about vision at all, we think of

650
00:53:11.039 --> 00:53:14.079
<v Speaker 12>it as like a camera. Vision is just a process

651
00:53:14.159 --> 00:53:17.159
<v Speaker 12>of taking a snapshot of a world that exists out there,

652
00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:20.599
<v Speaker 12>that has objects, colors, shapes, and motions. So there is

653
00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:23.039
<v Speaker 12>a part of vision that is like a camera, and

654
00:53:23.079 --> 00:53:26.440
<v Speaker 12>that is the eye. The eye has a lens which

655
00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:29.360
<v Speaker 12>focuses an image on the back of the eye, where

656
00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:32.320
<v Speaker 12>there's a piece of tissue called the retina, about one

657
00:53:32.400 --> 00:53:37.719
<v Speaker 12>hundred and twenty million photoreceptors and two hundred million inter

658
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:42.920
<v Speaker 12>neurons that do sophisticated processing, a very very sophisticated piece

659
00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:47.920
<v Speaker 12>of computational hardware. It's also an example of unintelligent design.

660
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:52.400
<v Speaker 12>The light goes through the lens and it has to

661
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:56.159
<v Speaker 12>go through all the inter neurons and blood vessels before

662
00:53:56.199 --> 00:53:59.800
<v Speaker 12>it reaches the photoreceptors which are behind. That's really bad.

663
00:54:01.480 --> 00:54:06.760
<v Speaker 12>That's true of vertebrate eyes, thought eyes. They have it right.

664
00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:09.440
<v Speaker 12>The photo receptors are in front, the interneurons and the

665
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:16.639
<v Speaker 12>blood vessels are behind. We got the B model, So

666
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:20.599
<v Speaker 12>why all this horsepower in the brain just to look.

667
00:54:21.000 --> 00:54:25.360
<v Speaker 12>The idea from cognitive neuroscience is that perception vision is

668
00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:28.280
<v Speaker 12>really a reality engine. In real time, you're creating all

669
00:54:28.280 --> 00:54:33.559
<v Speaker 12>the depths, colors, motions, shapes, textures and objects that you see.

670
00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:37.280
<v Speaker 12>So you are creating the reality that you experience right now.

671
00:54:37.400 --> 00:54:39.519
<v Speaker 12>You're not just taking a snapshot of a world that

672
00:54:39.639 --> 00:54:45.719
<v Speaker 12>was already there. So, for example, just a couple concrete examples,

673
00:54:46.400 --> 00:54:50.400
<v Speaker 12>this table and that table have exactly the same shape

674
00:54:50.440 --> 00:54:53.559
<v Speaker 12>of the tabletop. One might look low, gosh.

675
00:54:53.320 --> 00:54:59.679
<v Speaker 1>Who was that, Andy Donald Hoffman? I let your reality down.

676
00:55:00.880 --> 00:55:03.360
<v Speaker 1>I didn't let you down. You had a reality of

677
00:55:03.440 --> 00:55:08.639
<v Speaker 1>me that I let down. Gosh, this is why you

678
00:55:08.679 --> 00:55:11.960
<v Speaker 1>can't see me as another human being that's flawed like you.

679
00:55:12.320 --> 00:55:17.079
<v Speaker 1>I let your reality of me down. The name of

680
00:55:17.159 --> 00:55:20.159
<v Speaker 1>sweet baby raised barbecue sauce. Let me get Nikki in

681
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:22.719
<v Speaker 1>here to finish her final thought. Then we're going to Okay,

682
00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:29.199
<v Speaker 1>see Nikki, please land your plain sweetheart the song. If

683
00:55:29.239 --> 00:55:33.400
<v Speaker 1>you don't know me by now ooh, simply read.

684
00:55:34.599 --> 00:55:43.119
<v Speaker 13>Okay, Now, it is not a coincidence that that song resonates,

685
00:55:43.159 --> 00:55:47.000
<v Speaker 13>particularly as it rates to this topic, because that song

686
00:55:47.199 --> 00:55:51.440
<v Speaker 13>isn't talking about a perception. It's talking it's not talking

687
00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:56.239
<v Speaker 13>about a performer person. It is talking about the real you,

688
00:55:56.599 --> 00:56:03.599
<v Speaker 13>whoever you are. And when people are sincere in knowing

689
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:09.440
<v Speaker 13>the reallyion, we don't have to talk about translating you

690
00:56:09.719 --> 00:56:15.840
<v Speaker 13>over and over and over again. So if you need

691
00:56:16.119 --> 00:56:22.199
<v Speaker 13>that translation, particularly after significant exposure passed the three days,

692
00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:28.239
<v Speaker 13>for example, then perhaps you will understand better with the

693
00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:39.519
<v Speaker 13>absence of me. People generally get clearer when their absence, when.

694
00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:49.079
<v Speaker 1>They got just themselves. Hey, Nikki, I love you to death.

695
00:56:49.159 --> 00:56:52.079
<v Speaker 1>You already know that, right? You know that? Right, Nikki?

696
00:56:52.280 --> 00:56:53.920
<v Speaker 2>You know.

697
00:56:55.719 --> 00:56:59.599
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate you. Guess what you just did about to sip.

698
00:56:59.400 --> 00:57:01.000
<v Speaker 13>In the building and I still love it.

699
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:04.679
<v Speaker 1>We love you. Mississippi is in the building because of

700
00:57:04.840 --> 00:57:08.639
<v Speaker 1>Nikki from the sip. But hey, is this our first

701
00:57:08.679 --> 00:57:13.519
<v Speaker 1>call from Oklahoma City, Oklahoma is in the building, Duke?

702
00:57:13.639 --> 00:57:16.400
<v Speaker 1>What up? What are your thoughts on tonight's topic? And

703
00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:19.119
<v Speaker 1>because this is your first call? I gotta tell you

704
00:57:19.159 --> 00:57:21.159
<v Speaker 1>no profanity talk to us?

705
00:57:22.880 --> 00:57:23.960
<v Speaker 5>What else with you? Thoe?

706
00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:24.360
<v Speaker 1>What's up?

707
00:57:24.400 --> 00:57:24.559
<v Speaker 9>Good?

708
00:57:24.559 --> 00:57:27.199
<v Speaker 1>Brother man.

709
00:57:27.800 --> 00:57:30.119
<v Speaker 5>I mean, uh, I thought you I thought you was

710
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:32.199
<v Speaker 5>going in and I want to comment on the specifically

711
00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:34.400
<v Speaker 5>two points that you made as far as and I

712
00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:36.119
<v Speaker 5>got my phone on speaker. If I need to take

713
00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:37.559
<v Speaker 5>it off, I can if its.

714
00:57:37.760 --> 00:57:40.360
<v Speaker 1>You sound pretty good right now? Yeah, you sound pretty good.

715
00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:43.079
<v Speaker 1>Just no profanity and we good. What are your thoughts

716
00:57:43.079 --> 00:57:43.719
<v Speaker 1>on the topic?

717
00:57:45.400 --> 00:57:48.440
<v Speaker 5>So, yeah, you were speaking about you know, can you

718
00:57:48.480 --> 00:57:51.440
<v Speaker 5>speak your the person? And you're in you're in a

719
00:57:51.480 --> 00:57:54.480
<v Speaker 5>relationship with can you speak the language? And the other

720
00:57:54.599 --> 00:57:57.840
<v Speaker 5>topic is living up to other people's expectations. I do

721
00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:00.840
<v Speaker 5>think these things are parallel, kind the one and the same.

722
00:58:00.920 --> 00:58:02.559
<v Speaker 5>They kind of butchets off of each other. And I

723
00:58:02.599 --> 00:58:06.880
<v Speaker 5>will say that I can speak my significant other language,

724
00:58:06.880 --> 00:58:09.679
<v Speaker 5>but do I want to know? Because I'll end up

725
00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:14.039
<v Speaker 5>play I'll end up play caten and compromising on ship

726
00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:18.840
<v Speaker 5>on things. Excuse excuse me, I apologize, end up compromising

727
00:58:18.880 --> 00:58:22.280
<v Speaker 5>on things that I don't want to and that and

728
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:25.239
<v Speaker 5>that goes into the living up to other people's expectations.

729
00:58:25.800 --> 00:58:25.960
<v Speaker 7>Right.

730
00:58:26.079 --> 00:58:29.559
<v Speaker 5>I think men are coming into themselves and realizing that

731
00:58:29.719 --> 00:58:32.880
<v Speaker 5>we don't have to live up into up to nobody's expectations,

732
00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:33.360
<v Speaker 5>but our.

733
00:58:33.280 --> 00:58:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Own hold on Now you can't say in one breath

734
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:44.880
<v Speaker 1>you don't want to speak their language because you wind up,

735
00:58:45.719 --> 00:58:49.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, play Caten. Then I'm gonna say, is that

736
00:58:49.679 --> 00:58:55.760
<v Speaker 1>their problem or your problem?

737
00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:58.800
<v Speaker 5>I'm gonna say it's a relationship issue.

738
00:58:59.239 --> 00:59:03.599
<v Speaker 1>Nah, it's it's a strength issue. It's an internal strength issue.

739
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:08.480
<v Speaker 1>If you play Caten, who they didn't make you play Kate?

740
00:59:08.719 --> 00:59:12.719
<v Speaker 1>You did, so why would you blame them for play Kating.

741
00:59:15.760 --> 00:59:19.760
<v Speaker 5>I'm not blaming anybody for play Caden. What I'm saying

742
00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:25.639
<v Speaker 5>is society has these rules already in place. For example,

743
00:59:27.320 --> 00:59:30.320
<v Speaker 5>monogamy is the norm. What if I don't want to

744
00:59:30.360 --> 00:59:36.880
<v Speaker 5>deal with monogamy with it exactly. But what I'm saying

745
00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:39.039
<v Speaker 5>to you as a young man, it was hard for

746
00:59:39.079 --> 00:59:41.360
<v Speaker 5>me to say that. Now that I'm in my mere forties,

747
00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:45.159
<v Speaker 5>I'm coming into myself and I don't have to play

748
00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:46.960
<v Speaker 5>k right. I don't have to live up to these

749
00:59:47.000 --> 00:59:49.639
<v Speaker 5>expectations that the world put on me, or that you're

750
00:59:49.639 --> 00:59:51.519
<v Speaker 5>trying to put on me. I can say, get with

751
00:59:51.559 --> 00:59:56.599
<v Speaker 5>this program, right, I'm accepting. I'm accepting. I'm accepting responsibility

752
00:59:56.639 --> 00:59:59.760
<v Speaker 5>because I think that in my younger years I did

753
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:03.280
<v Speaker 5>try to conform to what the world around me said

754
01:00:03.320 --> 01:00:05.119
<v Speaker 5>I should be, and I don't want to live up

755
01:00:05.119 --> 01:00:08.360
<v Speaker 5>to those expectations. I'm a man.

756
01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:10.559
<v Speaker 1>You were young, and I have my home. Yeah, you

757
01:00:10.639 --> 01:00:13.000
<v Speaker 1>were young, and that's okay. It sounds like you found

758
01:00:13.079 --> 01:00:17.239
<v Speaker 1>your strength. But again, be comfortable with saying when I

759
01:00:17.320 --> 01:00:20.639
<v Speaker 1>was young, I was weak and now I'm stronger and

760
01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:24.079
<v Speaker 1>I can stand on my own. Oftentimes men are so

761
01:00:24.239 --> 01:00:27.960
<v Speaker 1>afraid of the word weakness that they can't be honest

762
01:00:28.039 --> 01:00:32.440
<v Speaker 1>about the time when they were weak. I'm simply listening

763
01:00:32.519 --> 01:00:36.440
<v Speaker 1>to you talk and you're talking about play caton. That's

764
01:00:36.519 --> 01:00:39.760
<v Speaker 1>weakness you talking about. You understand what I'm saying. Just

765
01:00:39.840 --> 01:00:41.760
<v Speaker 1>be honest and say, you know what, I was weak

766
01:00:41.800 --> 01:00:44.760
<v Speaker 1>at that moment. I'm not weak like that no more.

767
01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:47.320
<v Speaker 1>Now I can stand on the truth of who I am.

768
01:00:47.639 --> 01:00:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Does that make sense?

769
01:00:50.199 --> 01:00:52.400
<v Speaker 5>No, that makes absolutely sense. And I want to take

770
01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:56.000
<v Speaker 5>it a bit further because I think that also you know,

771
01:00:56.039 --> 01:00:58.679
<v Speaker 5>and you probably won't agree with me on this, but

772
01:00:58.800 --> 01:01:01.960
<v Speaker 5>I would even throw religion into the mix too. I

773
01:01:02.000 --> 01:01:04.000
<v Speaker 5>don't want to. I don't want I don't want to

774
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:06.559
<v Speaker 5>agree to those terms. You feel me and you won't

775
01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:09.480
<v Speaker 5>you won't take it that far. But also, these are

776
01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:12.039
<v Speaker 5>terms and conditions that other people are projecting on meat

777
01:01:12.039 --> 01:01:14.199
<v Speaker 5>that are not my own, and I don't have to

778
01:01:14.320 --> 01:01:15.440
<v Speaker 5>accept as a.

779
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:18.599
<v Speaker 1>Man hundred percent. Wait, that's a hundred perent. I agree

780
01:01:18.639 --> 01:01:20.559
<v Speaker 1>with that one hundred percent. But let me ask you this.

781
01:01:21.239 --> 01:01:21.719
<v Speaker 1>How old are you?

782
01:01:21.719 --> 01:01:21.960
<v Speaker 13>Brother?

783
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:25.960
<v Speaker 1>You said you're in your forties, right, forty three? Forty three?

784
01:01:26.039 --> 01:01:28.519
<v Speaker 1>Come on, grown man. I love it. I love what

785
01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:34.159
<v Speaker 1>you're doing here. But do you speak Aramaic, Hebrew, Aderbic, Greek?

786
01:01:34.599 --> 01:01:35.039
<v Speaker 5>I don't.

787
01:01:35.480 --> 01:01:38.679
<v Speaker 1>Then, don't back off of religion until you study it

788
01:01:38.800 --> 01:01:42.360
<v Speaker 1>all the way to the bone to the bone marrow. See,

789
01:01:42.360 --> 01:01:47.199
<v Speaker 1>it's easy to quit something before you learned it. See,

790
01:01:47.239 --> 01:01:50.960
<v Speaker 1>I've studied it, so I am qualified to go. No,

791
01:01:51.239 --> 01:01:55.039
<v Speaker 1>I'm good. I see how you change the translation? The

792
01:01:55.079 --> 01:01:58.840
<v Speaker 1>translation in twenty twenty six, it's different than the translation

793
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:01.960
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety six, which is different than the translation

794
01:02:02.039 --> 01:02:06.159
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen fifty six. See, I've studied. Oh, I see

795
01:02:06.159 --> 01:02:08.840
<v Speaker 1>you trying to hide that word there? Oh? Why are you?

796
01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:13.400
<v Speaker 1>Why is this word still transliterated? What's the difference between

797
01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:19.880
<v Speaker 1>translation and transliteration? See, if you don't know, don't back out.

798
01:02:20.519 --> 01:02:22.480
<v Speaker 1>Figure do you understand? What do you understand?

799
01:02:22.480 --> 01:02:26.239
<v Speaker 5>What I'm saying that's fair and.

800
01:02:26.280 --> 01:02:28.440
<v Speaker 1>Stay right there. Don't go nowhere. No, don't go nowhere.

801
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:30.559
<v Speaker 1>I need you stay right there, don't go nowhere. Okay,

802
01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:33.519
<v Speaker 1>se is on the line, he cooking. When we come forward,

803
01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:34.719
<v Speaker 1>more heat.

804
01:02:34.519 --> 01:02:35.599
<v Speaker 2>From the v O R.

805
01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:40.800
<v Speaker 1>We need the black version that simply read did not

806
01:02:41.000 --> 01:02:45.880
<v Speaker 1>create this song. Simply read version is a remake. I

807
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:50.639
<v Speaker 1>need the soul and grit's version I need, we need

808
01:02:51.559 --> 01:02:53.840
<v Speaker 1>something was missing. Did y'all you see the way he

809
01:02:53.880 --> 01:02:57.400
<v Speaker 1>came in and the grit wasn't there. I need the

810
01:02:57.480 --> 01:03:00.480
<v Speaker 1>grit where Uncle Tony at Tony said we need black

811
01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:05.039
<v Speaker 1>people on the show. Here we go see this that

812
01:03:05.079 --> 01:03:09.199
<v Speaker 1>black church, right, I gotta understand this, that break up

813
01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:12.159
<v Speaker 1>church music. Now, baby, I know the difference. Come on,

814
01:03:13.920 --> 01:03:15.320
<v Speaker 1>that's wheat right at wrong.

815
01:03:15.639 --> 01:03:21.800
<v Speaker 14>My, my, my, I ain't gonna do nothing, so up

816
01:03:21.840 --> 01:03:26.719
<v Speaker 14>said I have that.

817
01:03:31.880 --> 01:03:36.039
<v Speaker 9>My question is how can we maintain our own entailor

818
01:03:36.159 --> 01:03:39.679
<v Speaker 9>to your identity and a relationship, especially a close one,

819
01:03:40.280 --> 01:03:43.199
<v Speaker 9>without compromising me in take other.

820
01:03:43.239 --> 01:03:49.079
<v Speaker 1>Strock listen, I wanted I wanted to cook because that

821
01:03:49.280 --> 01:03:52.400
<v Speaker 1>was a new Ramdas clip and he was gonna cook.

822
01:03:52.639 --> 01:03:56.840
<v Speaker 1>But my caller, Duke from OKAC is on the line,

823
01:03:56.920 --> 01:03:58.480
<v Speaker 1>and I want him to have a little bit more

824
01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:00.880
<v Speaker 1>time to say what he needs to say, but he

825
01:04:01.039 --> 01:04:06.519
<v Speaker 1>must not use profanity. Duke from OKC, get back in

826
01:04:06.639 --> 01:04:09.679
<v Speaker 1>here your thoughts, man, Come on, share with me.

827
01:04:09.920 --> 01:04:13.639
<v Speaker 5>You were cooking, man, You was cooking too, And I

828
01:04:13.679 --> 01:04:15.880
<v Speaker 5>appreciate you for letting me go. And I apologize for

829
01:04:17.400 --> 01:04:19.960
<v Speaker 5>you know, talking out of bounds. But like we were saying,

830
01:04:20.039 --> 01:04:22.760
<v Speaker 5>you made the point as far as just like maybe

831
01:04:22.760 --> 01:04:26.480
<v Speaker 5>I haven't studied enough. Right, well, then the owners, Well,

832
01:04:26.519 --> 01:04:28.719
<v Speaker 5>the onus is on you, then, sir, because I would

833
01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:32.800
<v Speaker 5>challenge you to tell me and your audience something profound

834
01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:35.280
<v Speaker 5>that you learned in another language that I didn't in English,

835
01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:37.400
<v Speaker 5>that you may have to make make me look in

836
01:04:37.400 --> 01:04:38.199
<v Speaker 5>a different manner.

837
01:04:38.440 --> 01:04:42.119
<v Speaker 1>Nope, the onus is not on me. You came here

838
01:04:42.159 --> 01:04:45.519
<v Speaker 1>with your own purpose. The onness is not on me.

839
01:04:45.960 --> 01:04:50.239
<v Speaker 1>It's on you to discover. But you found me, nonetheless,

840
01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:55.880
<v Speaker 1>right indeed, all right then, so it's not on me

841
01:04:56.559 --> 01:04:59.800
<v Speaker 1>to point you in the right direction. You found the

842
01:05:00.960 --> 01:05:05.559
<v Speaker 1>which is why you're here right now. But again, if

843
01:05:05.559 --> 01:05:08.079
<v Speaker 1>you understand what you're saying, you're saying, I'm not going

844
01:05:08.159 --> 01:05:12.280
<v Speaker 1>to be beholden to any concept or construct, right your

845
01:05:12.360 --> 01:05:17.800
<v Speaker 1>perception of me, the book's perception of me, the religion's

846
01:05:17.840 --> 01:05:22.599
<v Speaker 1>perception of that's what you're saying, correct.

847
01:05:21.920 --> 01:05:25.159
<v Speaker 5>I'm saying that I am entitled to create my.

848
01:05:25.199 --> 01:05:30.280
<v Speaker 1>Own one hundred percent. So look, we walking the same path,

849
01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:34.639
<v Speaker 1>so I'm not beholden. Then if we're on the same path,

850
01:05:34.679 --> 01:05:35.639
<v Speaker 1>we're learning together.

851
01:05:37.159 --> 01:05:38.320
<v Speaker 7>So I.

852
01:05:40.920 --> 01:05:44.440
<v Speaker 5>I agree. I agree to a certain extent because my brother,

853
01:05:44.480 --> 01:05:46.440
<v Speaker 5>I still think you have hurdles, and that is the

854
01:05:46.519 --> 01:05:50.039
<v Speaker 5>religious hurdles, because like you're telling me that, maybe I

855
01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:53.119
<v Speaker 5>don't know enough. But I'm thinking that because I don't

856
01:05:53.159 --> 01:05:57.280
<v Speaker 5>know the language. I have read translations and transliterations, and

857
01:05:57.320 --> 01:06:00.320
<v Speaker 5>I read a lot. Also, I got a nice little

858
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:04.800
<v Speaker 5>library myself, nice right, and I have not. I have

859
01:06:04.920 --> 01:06:07.880
<v Speaker 5>not come to the same conclusion that you have. And

860
01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:10.280
<v Speaker 5>maybe you may be more well studied, and maybe we

861
01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:13.000
<v Speaker 5>can have this conversation about religion and maybe you can

862
01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:15.559
<v Speaker 5>enlighten me on things because I come from a I

863
01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:18.360
<v Speaker 5>have an agnostic point of view right then that I

864
01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:21.840
<v Speaker 5>don't know and I haven't. I haven't been I haven't

865
01:06:21.880 --> 01:06:26.880
<v Speaker 5>seen substantial enough evidence to make me, you know, just certain, right,

866
01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:29.119
<v Speaker 5>I would love to be certain. I think the other

867
01:06:29.199 --> 01:06:32.159
<v Speaker 5>side is beautiful. I think that that. If that is true,

868
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:35.000
<v Speaker 5>then it's great, But I'm just not convinced.

869
01:06:35.280 --> 01:06:38.599
<v Speaker 1>Then you can't say you're agnostic if you would love

870
01:06:38.679 --> 01:06:42.000
<v Speaker 1>it to be the opposite. Agnostic. It's a Greek word,

871
01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:45.480
<v Speaker 1>and whenever you see a Greek word, just know when

872
01:06:45.679 --> 01:06:48.679
<v Speaker 1>there's an A in front of a Greek word, that

873
01:06:48.760 --> 01:06:54.639
<v Speaker 1>a means against. So when you see atheist, a thought

874
01:06:54.800 --> 01:07:03.639
<v Speaker 1>us against God. When you see agnostic, a gnosis against knowledge?

875
01:07:06.159 --> 01:07:07.840
<v Speaker 1>D you see did you know that?

876
01:07:09.880 --> 01:07:10.639
<v Speaker 5>Uh?

877
01:07:11.039 --> 01:07:13.760
<v Speaker 1>Well, that may be how the word No, No, no, that's

878
01:07:13.800 --> 01:07:15.519
<v Speaker 1>not that's not what I asked you. I asked you,

879
01:07:15.599 --> 01:07:21.000
<v Speaker 1>did you know that? No, then don't claim it. Do

880
01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:21.519
<v Speaker 1>you understand?

881
01:07:21.800 --> 01:07:25.079
<v Speaker 5>Hold on? But no, I hear exactly what you're saying,

882
01:07:25.159 --> 01:07:28.400
<v Speaker 5>But the definition doesn't say that you hear me.

883
01:07:29.000 --> 01:07:31.840
<v Speaker 1>I know, I'm just listen. I'm trying to give you

884
01:07:31.960 --> 01:07:32.239
<v Speaker 1>the game.

885
01:07:32.280 --> 01:07:35.559
<v Speaker 5>Can break down hold on, hold on, You can break

886
01:07:35.599 --> 01:07:40.000
<v Speaker 5>down a word at the etymologically speaking, when you did

887
01:07:40.400 --> 01:07:42.880
<v Speaker 5>this word means this, this word means that. But when

888
01:07:42.920 --> 01:07:46.119
<v Speaker 5>you put these words two words together, it's a. It's a.

889
01:07:46.199 --> 01:07:49.559
<v Speaker 5>It's a definition for the new word, right, So you

890
01:07:49.719 --> 01:07:52.559
<v Speaker 5>are correcting what those words mean. Separate When when you

891
01:07:52.599 --> 01:07:55.519
<v Speaker 5>put those two words again, there's a concept behind it,

892
01:07:55.599 --> 01:07:59.719
<v Speaker 5>and agnostic means that you know, you don't know if

893
01:07:59.719 --> 01:08:02.119
<v Speaker 5>they're is a god or there isn't a god, but

894
01:08:02.159 --> 01:08:04.599
<v Speaker 5>he hasn't made himself known. And you don't have no,

895
01:08:04.920 --> 01:08:12.280
<v Speaker 5>Uh you don't. You don't have enough evidence to substantiate. Now, look, let.

896
01:08:12.239 --> 01:08:16.079
<v Speaker 1>Me just ask, I mean, pull up, pull up the definition. No, No,

897
01:08:16.119 --> 01:08:18.399
<v Speaker 1>I don't have to. I already know the definition. It's cool,

898
01:08:18.880 --> 01:08:21.920
<v Speaker 1>Uh that that that's not the point that I'm trying

899
01:08:21.920 --> 01:08:25.880
<v Speaker 1>to make. When people say there's no evidence of God,

900
01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:34.960
<v Speaker 1>I always take you're a proponent of science, aren't you. Uh, yes,

901
01:08:36.520 --> 01:08:41.119
<v Speaker 1>if you're an agnostic, come on, quantum mechanics.

902
01:08:40.720 --> 01:08:44.159
<v Speaker 5>Against But I'm not. I'm not against the other side

903
01:08:44.159 --> 01:08:47.239
<v Speaker 5>because I know, like when you say anti, right, that's

904
01:08:47.279 --> 01:08:50.119
<v Speaker 5>the literal. But I'm saying that I'm just not convinced.

905
01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:52.119
<v Speaker 1>You know, I'm so you're open.

906
01:08:52.399 --> 01:08:54.279
<v Speaker 5>It's not that I'm against exactly.

907
01:08:55.439 --> 01:08:59.119
<v Speaker 1>I'm good. That's a good place to be. Being open

908
01:08:59.319 --> 01:09:02.520
<v Speaker 1>is the greatest place to be because that's where the

909
01:09:02.560 --> 01:09:07.399
<v Speaker 1>information comes in unfiltered. But open also means unconditioned, so

910
01:09:07.479 --> 01:09:11.560
<v Speaker 1>you can't come from the perspective of I'm agnostic, which

911
01:09:11.600 --> 01:09:15.079
<v Speaker 1>is your You said that, you said I'm more of

912
01:09:15.119 --> 01:09:19.439
<v Speaker 1>an agnostic, so and I'm saying, don't claim that. Right.

913
01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:23.039
<v Speaker 1>If you're open, then you're in the gate. That's where

914
01:09:23.079 --> 01:09:27.600
<v Speaker 1>all the probabilities are superposition. You should be there right.

915
01:09:29.680 --> 01:09:34.119
<v Speaker 5>Yes, in a way, but in a way let me okay, yeah,

916
01:09:34.199 --> 01:09:37.920
<v Speaker 5>because so So this is why I say that agnostic

917
01:09:38.039 --> 01:09:41.760
<v Speaker 5>is a person who believes that nothing is known or

918
01:09:41.840 --> 01:09:45.319
<v Speaker 5>can be known about the existence or nature of God.

919
01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:50.159
<v Speaker 5>So whenever you say that, I'm in that position because

920
01:09:50.199 --> 01:09:54.159
<v Speaker 5>whenever I ask, though, I say, how do you know

921
01:09:54.399 --> 01:09:59.680
<v Speaker 5>about God? You can only reference scriptures and the feeling

922
01:09:59.720 --> 01:10:02.640
<v Speaker 5>that you that you've had. But to me, it don't

923
01:10:02.720 --> 01:10:03.239
<v Speaker 5>mean shit.

924
01:10:04.079 --> 01:10:08.359
<v Speaker 1>There you go again. See gosh, we was having a

925
01:10:08.399 --> 01:10:17.800
<v Speaker 1>great conversation and then you start cussing. Oh goodness, Andy,

926
01:10:18.039 --> 01:10:21.760
<v Speaker 1>you called it, didn't you? Andy said if he cursed

927
01:10:21.840 --> 01:10:29.119
<v Speaker 1>one more time, I'm gonna drop him in the name

928
01:10:29.159 --> 01:10:32.479
<v Speaker 1>of sweet baby raised barbecue sauce. Well, listen, we got

929
01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:37.600
<v Speaker 1>Monday off to a bang. Guess what. I'm gonna be

930
01:10:37.760 --> 01:10:41.720
<v Speaker 1>back here tomorrow with another slapper. It's gonna be great.

931
01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:43.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm Zoe Williams, the Voice of Reason, I'll see y

932
01:10:43.720 --> 01:10:45.199
<v Speaker 1>all tomorrow with another Eater, Douce