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Speaker 1: If you want to get the show early and ad free,

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There you can choose from where you wish to support me.

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Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me

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about this, even though I think on the last ad

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I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed,

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audio file. So head on over to the pekan Yonashow

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dot com. You'll see all the ways that you can

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support me there. And I just want to thank everyone.

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It's because of you that I can put out the

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amount of material that I do. I can do what

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I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two hundred Years Together

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and everything else, the things that Thomas and I are

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doing together on condinal philosophy, it's all because of you.

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And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank

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you enough.

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Speaker 2: So thank you.

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Speaker 1: The Pekanyonashow dot com. Everything's there. I want to welcome

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everyone back to the Peking Yona's show, Carl dolls back

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and talk to more Spanish Civil War.

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Speaker 2: Carl, how are you doing doing great?

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: Why don't you introduce your friend?

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Speaker 1: This is this is a gentleman you've introduced me to

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and you've talked about in the past, So go right ahead.

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Speaker 4: Great, I will lead off and then hand it over.

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So my friend and correspondent Morgre, who is a writer

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and artist from Spain, who I've been collaborating with on

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a series of articles on my sub stack, the Now

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and Then series. Really great content that he's been providing,

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and you know, a lot of it is the a

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a Spanish orientation that often doesn't show up in you know,

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the English language material that comes up but is fairly

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well known in Spain, easily accessible, and so a lot

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of the material that I've been able to provide in

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the last like what is it six eight you know,

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six to eight months or so on this topic has

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been with Morger. So welcome, and please introduce yourself as

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much as you want to.

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Speaker 5: Well, hello, it is well I can and I am

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a little bit nervous because I don't appear in podcasts

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that much, but I am Morger I'm from Spain. I

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troll I write. I have aspirations as an artist, but

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very humble and this series of articles about the Spanish

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Civil War. Initially there were it was kind of a

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niche interest because when I studied history, Spanish history in

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high school and later, the civil war and the period

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of the dictatorship was very glossed over. It was usually

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at the end of the academic year, so teachers wanted

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to get it done as quickly as possible and they

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and essentially, the general conception of the Spanish Civil War

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is that the legal, peaceful and righteous republic elected left

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leaning government and some military people that were very evil

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decided to take them down. That is the general widespread

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idea that happened. But if you look deeper, if you

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go beyond the surface, you start noticing a lot of discrepancies,

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a lot of information that there is evidence and retellings,

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not only of historians or individuals that are obscure, not that.

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For example, a lot of evidence of the public disturbances

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that took place during the thirty six come from the

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president of the government, no President of Parliament, Nathol He

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literally said the left manipulated the elections and there there

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is widespread banditry and riots in Spain, and it is

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amazing that a lot of people don't know about it. Then,

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to a certain degree, I think this is kind of

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a public service announcement, especially when so many people talk

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about civil war. There's going to be this is a

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situation like the Spanish Civil War, relating to a lot

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of things that are happening right now.

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Speaker 4: Great, all right, so thank you. What we're going to

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do here is for some of our for some of

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our listeners. Just to be clear, we're going to be

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walking through this article in particular, as well as sprinkling

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and some additional commentary. It is now and then an

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anatomy of a leftist Part two Francisco Largo Caballero the

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radicalization of a moderate Socialist. And that was kind of

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my own spin on the language based on the reading,

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you know, because I think it tells a clear story

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as to kind of how we get here. Some people

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might characterize it slightly differently, be less charitable, but I think,

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you know, it may it makes sense for this framing

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and understanding, you know, the conflagration in Spain, So you know,

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folks who are just listening we're not going to be

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lingering on you know, images and the like too much.

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We'll focus on the text and commentary. So Morgar introduced

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the piece that that I edited.

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Speaker 2: Down.

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Speaker 4: Part of it was because there are that there's there's

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information that is pretty like obvious that you can state

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in a very direct way and move on in Spanish,

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or I should say for a Spanish audience that I

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have to explain more for Americans and sometimes I'm like,

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I kind of know what that is, but I have

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to look it up.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So that's if you need a more more information

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context or whatever. It just asked me, I wouldn't be

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glad to share.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and we're we have another piece that will be

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coming up which is about uh, that that Morgore wrote

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that I just started on, which is very good and

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I'm very excited to publish it. It's about the Servicio

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de Intellehensiamilitar, the military intelligence service of the Republic, which

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almost immediately was co opted by the Communists and the

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NKVD from control of the Socialist government. It's very interesting.

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So Moregre likes to start with a quote, whether it's

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biblical or for or from literature, and in this piece

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Anatomy of a Leftist Part two, and the devil who

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deceived them was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur,

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where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.

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They will be tormented day and night, forever and ever.

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And that's from Revelation twenty ten.

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Speaker 3: So the.

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Speaker 4: I think the way to summarize Francisco Largo Cabaerro and

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feel free to jump in is that he was a

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fellow coming from circumstances that were very common in Spain.

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And one of the themes that can be a little

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challenging sometimes with an American audience, that like our front

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friend Thomas seven seven seven always talks about, is that

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the conditions on the ground, like politically and economically for

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the working class in America were very different.

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Speaker 3: Than that in Europe.

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Speaker 4: And so the whole reason fashis is a thing or

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was a thing in Europe, but never was really I mean,

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I can say at the time of the communist uprisings

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really necessary in America was because the conditions weren't ripe

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in America to require a counter a counter movement to

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address a lot of the things that would appeal to,

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you know, the lower classes in Europe because we had means,

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you know, economic and political that were not necessarily as available.

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We were much more enfranchised. And again it depends on

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where you're at in Spain where people would feel less

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enfranchised versus more enfranchised.

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Speaker 5: Yes, because I think you said it in the talk

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you had with Astrol, I listened to it. It was

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it was very good just to plug here. But the

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thing is that, of course it's easily understandable for me

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because I'm from Spain. I know my country better than you,

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and you know your country better than me, So you

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have to understand that. At the time, a lot of

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people I also have to explain the industrial the Latin

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industrialization model that to summarize is like people say that

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in Latin countries and Latin I mean Spain, Portugal, Italy,

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the Mediterranean nations, industrialization is a much slower process and

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comes with a greater deal of challenges in order to

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achieve that level of proper industrialization. So the thing that

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happens is that at the time Spain was still industrialized

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and there was a transition that was steady, but of

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course it led to a lot of conflict in factories

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and production areas. Mainly in Basque country, where most foundaries

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of Spain are in Austurias, where most mining operations were

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not right now. But the greatest problem in Spain was

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in Andalusia, and it is because most of the land

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in Andalusia belonged back then, belonged to the nobility. They

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had huge, huge properties for vineyards or olive trees, and

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that meant that the people only worked during the harvest.

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There was a lot of work during the harvest and

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the rest of the year. If you were a normal person,

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you had to scrape by with whatever you could have.

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So it was you have to understand that a lot

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of people in Andalouthia, where this possessed completely, nobody offered anything.

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And also the same in Catalonia, because I remember that

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you said that a lot of people were coming from

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the countryside. Something like that happened in Andalusia they moved north.

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But in Catalonia it was usually a tradition that if

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the father dies, the father of the family dies, the

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first son inherits everything and the others get nothing, so

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they have to strike out on their own. And that

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made a lot of people from the countryside slowly moved

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to the cities, and it fed a lot into the

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workers' movement. That is why in Andalusia the socialist and

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the anarchists were so big, why Catalonius is still to

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this day the main stronghold of the left in Spain.

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Speaker 3: Well put.

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Speaker 4: And it's interesting with Largo Cabierro, so he was born

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in Madrid. And one of the things that I've seen,

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and I'd be interested in your perspective on this, but

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it you know, Madrid has has is much more of

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a stronghold of like a socialist like a state socialist vibe.

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And I think it's the fact that you know, that's

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the seat of the national government. And my understanding and

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from conversations I've had with people, is that it's not

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it's not the same thing as other places it was.

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It was created, it was instituted as the capital because

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it was in the middle of the country and and

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it was less it developed less organically than say, you know,

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the countryside anywhere else or or or towns elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: And would you.

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Speaker 4: Say that's a fair characterization that drop that drove like

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state socialism versus anarchism in Madrid.

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Speaker 5: To a certain degree, Yes, because his stor the capital

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of Spain was Toledo. It was the main city, and

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Madrid is just a little bit further north from Toledo.

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But the thing is that is, like you say, a

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lot of the development in Madrid is is not organic.

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It is heavily promoted by the government because of course

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the capital and the parliament and the royal palace, everything

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is in there, so of course the seat of power

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is going to try to grow as large as possible

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in order to provide for all of the people living there.

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The thing is that in terms of socialism and anarchism,

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back then, with the huge development and especially with the industry,

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it led to a lot of people, a lot of

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conflict with the with foreman's and businessmen mainly. The thing

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is that anarchism and socialism, I don't want to say

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that there is special tifically deviated that much because initially

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they worked together and it was after after the radical

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radicalization that they split apart. So initially they had like

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a common front. They worked very well together, and it

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was later when they split apart, the socialists wanted to

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still negotiate. It is, they still wanted to work with

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the government, and the anarchyst said no, we have to kill.

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Speaker 4: Them all very very well. Put thank yeah, that's that's

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very good to explain. I try not to put my

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putin hat on and go too far back. But do

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you do you think that my understanding is a lot

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of that split that in Spain, this the non Marxist state,

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Socialists and the anarchists kept more of a of a

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of a thread together with one another despite what was

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going on in the Second International.

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Speaker 3: Would you would you.

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Speaker 4: Say that's a fair characterization from me.

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Speaker 5: You're under standing on the anarchist side, I'm not so sure,

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But on the socialist side, yes, because the thing that happened,

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very very peculiar, is that with the Second International, actually

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Largo Cavalero distance itself from the International.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, he moved aside. The problem is that as things

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developed later on, he saw, Okay, I have been in

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politics for nearly fifty years and I have achieved very little.

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I have to do something like right now, and I

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think that is an important part that drove him towards

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the collaboration with the communists. But still inside the Socialist Party,

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even to the end of the war, there was a

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sector that actively was actively anti Marxist and it was

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led by Juliambstato. Really interesting guy as well.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. So you know, there's so much to

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explore in this topic. I'll take my putin hat off

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and hang it up, but keep it handy because this

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is great color.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 4: Largo Kabiiro was born, as you pointed out, he was

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in politics for a very long time.

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Speaker 2: How long.

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Speaker 4: He was born in eighteen sixty nine in Madrid. His

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parents divorced four years after his birth, so mother and

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son were on their own. They moved to Granada. His

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mother worked in an inn. Largo Cabeiro began to attend

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school and then they were forced to return to Madrid

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and live with a relative a year later, so at

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age seven, Largo Kabierro left school at age seven and

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went to work, first as an apprentice and a cardboard

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factory and then as a rope maker. At the age

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of nine, he transitioned into working as a plasterer, which

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paid much better.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, consider a lot better here in as a salary

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of the time, here in fifteen pacitas compared to the

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average twos.

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Speaker 4: Oh wow, that that's a huge difference. Yeah, but it

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was variable demand, so it would you would you characterize

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it as seasonal work.

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Speaker 5: Kind of yeah, because it depended on like redevelopments and

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houses as well as expansions, like they get a theater

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and they need one, and it's essentially once the work

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is done, you never know when you're going to go

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back to work, and.

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Speaker 2: That that's true, and that.

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Speaker 5: Kind of irregularity in work demand forced Lago Cavier to

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take other works, like he was a fruit salesman, he

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was a construction worker, he was a farm hand, a

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lot of things.

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Speaker 4: So the the interesting thing is for those who who

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participate or who listened to the shows that Pete and

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I did about kind of the nineteenth century leftist movements,

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this will make sense. So Largo Cabier was growing up

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in this era of opening in Spain or political loosening,

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where the Cortes is getting a little more powerful and

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there's more of a diversity of political movements. The left

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is growing as a movement, but.

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Speaker 5: They grew immensely and it just started right then.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it was brand new and it had explosive growth,

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but the core test was essentially keeping a lid on

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a lot of the potential conflict through the Turno pacifico,

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the kind of handing off in a regular metered fashion

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between the kind of institutionalized conservative and liberal parties.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and the thing is that it wasn't exactly handed down.

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It's because there was constant election manipulation, so to ensure

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to ensure that the opposite one in order to ensure

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that Okay, I'm down here, now it's your turn.

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Speaker 3: Amusing, amazing, It.

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Speaker 5: Is very funny.

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Speaker 4: So in eighteen ninety Largo Cabiro makes his first contact

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with the socialist movement. And this is really interesting because

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there's a current here where Largo Cabierro is. He seems like,

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instinctually his socialism is instinctual more than it's like super

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ideological and based on like thought reading and being persuaded

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by you know, raw ideas, although of course it would

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appeal to him being a worker who's had this very tough,

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unsteady existence and just the unchariety of you know, how

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he grew up.

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Speaker 5: So and also consider that Largo Covira didn't finish finish

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his studies because he left the school. He had to

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learn how to read and write later in life.

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Speaker 4: Excellent, So he encounters the political movement created by the

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politician Pablo Iglesia's possive.

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Speaker 5: I had to to include his full name because if

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today you look for public lists in googling, you will

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get the picture of a guy that looks like a

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hippie with a ponytail.

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Speaker 3: Because he's a singer.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 5: No, it's the founder of another left wing party. Yeah,

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that it happened, like in twenty twelve, twenty ten. Around

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that time he founded a new political party, and now

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he has gone the way of the DODO because he's

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second in command kicked him out.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's funny, it's amusing.

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Speaker 4: So that this this follows this party in eighteen ninety,

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that Largo Cabiro encounters follows. The pattern that's really important

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to understand in Spanish political parties is that there's a

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General Workers Union Union Henerol de Trabajadores, Yes, and then

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the PSOE you can.

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Speaker 5: Say episoded Partialista Redsponol if you want to know, they're

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still in the elections. And there are the current ruling

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party in Spain.

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Speaker 4: And that is the Spanish Workers Socialist Party. Yes, and

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so the labor union has a corresponding political party, and

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so you can be so, so Largo Cabileiro joins the

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UGT General Union for Construction Workers. But then they have

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sub unions based on your specialties. It's it's the oh my,

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the word is escaping me h. It's a syndicalist model.

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Speaker 5: Yes, yes, because in Spain the unions are called sindicato,

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so it is essentially the same thing.

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Speaker 4: And then that the syndicalista becomes like a code word

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for like the street fighters later in the once we

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get into the yeah, once like the twenties, Yeah, the

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teams in twenties.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, once that time comes, the syndicalistas were essentially the

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newly abscribed to THEE. So they were the new guys

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and they put them to the test.

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Speaker 4: Interesting, that's also the code word for a like a

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Star thirty two automatic from the era, because that was

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the main pistol that the syndacalsis used for fighting.

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Speaker 5: Damn. Yeah, wow, that that is amazing.

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Speaker 3: So it's it's interesting.

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Speaker 4: Largo Cabierro described this encounter he attended a speech by

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Pablo Iglesias Posset, who explained the great advantage of worker

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unions and organizations, and Largo kabier later described it as

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light piercing the darkness. So eighteen ninety he joins the UGT.

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Eighteen ninety three he formally joins the PSOE political party.

356
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So again, to reiterate, he had a distinct lack of

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a formal education. Had to learn later on he'd only

358
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ever read the most basic Marxist texts, and Mike, I

359
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,920
get the feeling that he would have like dealt with

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like tracts and then news articles.

361
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Speaker 5: Yes, his main source of kind of ideology, political leanings

362
00:25:06,519 --> 00:25:10,960
or you know, the ideas that he wanted to defend

363
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and all that. He got it mainly through reading news

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articles that were written by other socialists, but mainly by

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public Less, who was a journalist.

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Speaker 4: Ah okay, that makes sense because then the political parties

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would have their own newspapers as well that would be read.

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Speaker 5: It is amazing to know how many left wing people

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of the time were journalists, gasp, Like the Lord was

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a journalist, Santioga Ridio was a journalist. In the Letho

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00:25:44,759 --> 00:25:47,960
Pieto was a journalist. Public List was a journalist.

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Speaker 4: It kind of makes sense, you know, you think that

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the You see the same thing with the thought leaders

374
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in the nineteenth centuries. They were writers and they would

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get jobs as journalists and get paid through the political

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parties that way. So, you know, nothing new under the

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sun for the people who we think that it's some

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00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,400
new thing that journalism has been recently corrupted, not at all.

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Speaker 5: Just remember time moves forward, nothing.

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Speaker 4: Changes, yes, worth repeating so interestingly. In eighteen ninety nine,

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Largo Cabiro was put in charge of the ugt's treasury

382
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in an unpaid position. He still worked as a plasterer,

383
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and then he was elected as a speaker in the

384
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National Committee of the PSOE. In nineteen oh four, he

385
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becomes the UGT representative to the Social Reform Institute, which

386
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,559
is its interesting. It was created by a conservative politician,

387
00:26:51,599 --> 00:26:57,759
Francisco Silvela, as a joint operation between the government and

388
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workers organizations with the intent of improving working conditions for

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00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:09,680
Spanish workers. This is something that is it's so interesting

390
00:27:09,799 --> 00:27:15,039
that like the Conservatives were doing this, and it gets

391
00:27:15,079 --> 00:27:20,680
back to that the whole idea behind that, that fascist instinct,

392
00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:24,480
you know, scare words fascism, but in reality it's trying

393
00:27:24,519 --> 00:27:29,000
to address the social question, you know, it's it's the

394
00:27:29,079 --> 00:27:31,119
duty of the system and the and all the people

395
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,319
in it to try to reconcile these things for people.

396
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,920
And whereas the left typically like you, the radicals, use

397
00:27:41,079 --> 00:27:48,039
these things to stoke revolution, but these kind of institutional

398
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,160
socialists want to reform them in a in a peaceful way,

399
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,640
or or just to get the results that they want

400
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:57,319
to be honest.

401
00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, And in this case you could you could kind

402
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,400
of see it that the conservatives were starting to see

403
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,200
the rise of the socialists and they said, Okay, now

404
00:28:09,599 --> 00:28:12,839
we have to tackle this issue, this problem that we

405
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,519
have in our hands, and we better give them the

406
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,799
tools to do it, or else will the problem will

407
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:22,160
get much worse on a lot of a lot of ways.

408
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:27,359
Because they were kind of you have to see that

409
00:28:27,519 --> 00:28:31,000
they have the liberal and the conservative and suddenly this guy,

410
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,880
this new guy appeared in their midst and they were

411
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,240
we have to be a little bit careful with it.

412
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Speaker 4: Yes, so they would want, they would want to have.

413
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Speaker 5: They would want to appease to them in order for

414
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:46,640
so they don't grow too big.

415
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Speaker 2: Excellent.

416
00:28:49,359 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 4: So it's interesting because in nineteen oh five, Largo Cabierro,

417
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,799
Pablo Iglesias, and Raphael Garcia, who is another related fellow,

418
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:05,119
successfully ran for positions in Madrid local elections as representatives

419
00:29:05,119 --> 00:29:08,599
of the Socialist Left. And this is when Largo Cabiira

420
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,039
is at this point thirty six years of age. Yes,

421
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,880
in nineteen oh five, right, so that marks the end

422
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,000
of his career as a plasterer and laborer. And now

423
00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:23,000
he's a full time politician, which he will be until

424
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,319
you know, he's deposed.

425
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, until he's removed.

426
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:29,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

427
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 4: So he fully dedicates himself to politics. He's making fifty

428
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,319
pasetas and getting this from the Socialist Party of Madrid,

429
00:29:39,319 --> 00:29:43,759
and this elevates him obviously in life, and he starts

430
00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:49,519
getting involved in negotiating strikes and you know, working conditions

431
00:29:49,559 --> 00:29:52,680
with workers in the cities, in the city. And then

432
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,119
he becomes the vice president of the UGT in nineteen

433
00:29:56,119 --> 00:30:00,880
oh eight. And then in the following here he finds

434
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,720
himself in jail for the first time related to a

435
00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:09,759
protest against essentially an escalation in Morocco.

436
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 5: Yes, because there was you could say there was also

437
00:30:14,519 --> 00:30:18,400
differences between the army at the time. The army is

438
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,759
another question that would require another article, but I will

439
00:30:22,839 --> 00:30:26,359
keep it short. Is that the army needed more effective

440
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,839
in Morocco, they needed more staff, so they were essentially

441
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:32,559
sending the garrison from the peninsula. The problem is that

442
00:30:32,599 --> 00:30:37,359
the governer song of the peninsula usually earned considerably less

443
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:42,200
than active on duty personnel in Morocco, and if they

444
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,079
send them, they would steal earn less than the active

445
00:30:46,119 --> 00:30:47,000
on duty personnel.

446
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: Destined, that's not a good plan.

447
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 3: Yeah.

448
00:30:52,119 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 5: That created a lot of content animosity and created two

449
00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:01,960
sides of the army, the Africanists and the the reservists,

450
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:08,880
because the Africanists essentially saw their reservices they were complacent

451
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,960
that sitting in their barracks and just taking their money,

452
00:31:13,319 --> 00:31:17,839
while the others saw the Africanists as they got unfair

453
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,119
positions on for merits and unfair salaries just because they.

454
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,839
Speaker 4: Went to war, which is a conflict that we saw

455
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:27,960
for the following several decades.

456
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,759
Speaker 2: Yes, very much, excellent.

457
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:38,279
Speaker 4: So in nineteen ten, Largo Cabiro and Pablo Iglesias were

458
00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:43,119
elected to Parliament with the aid of center left parties,

459
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:52,640
so interestingly that the coalition. The coalition elections are incredibly

460
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:58,519
important and Pablo Iglesias had been you know, against this previously,

461
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,359
but we see a lot of this moving forward in

462
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:04,480
Spanish elections.

463
00:32:04,519 --> 00:32:09,559
Speaker 5: Yes, and one small thing about the in nineteen ten

464
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,400
is because the Conservatives were taking were racing ris into power,

465
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:20,039
especially Maura, you know, the band that was in charge

466
00:32:20,319 --> 00:32:25,359
of regenerating Spain. He was the kind of the Tutor

467
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:29,400
of Calbo Sotelo politically. And it is in this time

468
00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:34,759
in nineteen ten where public alias literally said that Maura

469
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:41,480
should be killed in parliament and fifteen days later Maura

470
00:32:41,519 --> 00:32:44,720
would be gravely wounded by an anarchist gunman.

471
00:32:46,119 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 3: The beginning of a pattern.

472
00:32:48,279 --> 00:32:52,559
Speaker 5: Very I mean, you have to consider that during during

473
00:32:52,559 --> 00:33:00,359
the parliamentary monarchy, the anarchist murdered like four presidents and

474
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,720
they made an attempt on the life of the king

475
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,200
at his wedding. Consider that. Let it sink.

476
00:33:08,279 --> 00:33:12,279
Speaker 4: And this is so important for people to understand because

477
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,079
it contextualizes the reality of what the republic was and

478
00:33:17,599 --> 00:33:22,359
the politicians who were running it in the provisional government,

479
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,400
you know, the unelected you know for the first several years, right,

480
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,759
and who they worked with and the kinds of things

481
00:33:31,759 --> 00:33:35,200
that they were up to. And instead we have to

482
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,319
handwave and say, oh, well it was it was a

483
00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:41,839
republic and you know some meanis decided to do a

484
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:43,400
fascisms and overthrow.

485
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, in a lot of sense. They just go, you know,

486
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:52,599
they evil fascists just rose against the peaceful left and

487
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:53,319
come on.

488
00:33:55,319 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 2: It's incredible.

489
00:33:57,079 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 4: So in nineteen eleven, and Largo Kabierro is the head

490
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:08,719
of the UGT UH, he declares a general strike in

491
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,039
response to essentially the the response of the government, the

492
00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:16,920
liberal government against various workers' movements.

493
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 2: Uh.

494
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 4: They declare martial law and Largo Kabierro was rounded.

495
00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 2: Up with a bunch of other socialist leaders.

496
00:34:26,559 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 4: And then at this point, uh, there's a consideration to

497
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:34,440
ban the UGT UH and a great many members of

498
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:40,480
the UGT abandon that that Council of the of the

499
00:34:40,519 --> 00:34:43,840
I R S that that we mentioned.

500
00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 2: Previously, social reform. Yeah.

501
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 4: So again, World War One erupts. Spain remains neutral. Uh,

502
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:58,599
the economy booms because they can sell you know, all

503
00:34:58,679 --> 00:35:02,559
kinds of materials to the belligerent parties on either side

504
00:35:03,519 --> 00:35:07,559
and ride this out. So the UGT surges with the

505
00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:13,679
you know, the growth of industry at this time, and uh,

506
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,159
Largo Kabiiro's standing goes up considerably.

507
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:23,199
Speaker 3: So then we start seeing more of these.

508
00:35:23,079 --> 00:35:28,679
Speaker 4: Coordinated general strikes, the next one being nineteen seventeen, which

509
00:35:28,679 --> 00:35:32,079
shuts the country down for five days. It was organized

510
00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:35,159
by the ps OE as well as the anarchists of

511
00:35:35,199 --> 00:35:41,199
the CNT. Largo Cabiiro was a committee member and figurehead

512
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:41,960
of the movement.

513
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:45,280
Speaker 3: And you know, the the.

514
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 4: Goal is to address you know, workers conditions, the life

515
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,280
of Spanish workers, the surge and the price of basic goods.

516
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 5: Yes, because the end of World War One essentially tank

517
00:35:59,079 --> 00:36:02,679
the Spanish production and exports. And you also have to

518
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,800
keep in mind that Spain at the time was suffering

519
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:13,199
for huge inflation because foreign investors were spec were speculating

520
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,760
with the Passetta at the time, and that was costing. Yeah,

521
00:36:18,039 --> 00:36:19,159
it was brutal.

522
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 4: Do we have surnames of those foreign speculators.

523
00:36:23,639 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 5: Unfortunately, unfortunately I don't have them. But don't worry. People

524
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,679
that are like those speculators appear in the Civil War quite.

525
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 2: Oftenly mmmmm interesting, Yeah, I.

526
00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 5: Did my I did my my homework.

527
00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,199
Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent. All right.

528
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 4: So at this point, uh, this this strike general strike

529
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,360
creates a crisis. Uh. You know, Largo Cabiro and his

530
00:36:54,519 --> 00:36:59,239
peers who were involved in the strike leadership in particular,

531
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:03,400
as well as many other participants are rounded up tried

532
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:09,719
for treasons sentenced to life in prison. Interestingly, just a

533
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:14,639
pattern that we see all the time. The response is

534
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,880
so great that Largo Cabiro is released in the following

535
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:22,280
year and every you know, because these are people who

536
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:26,800
are candidates for election in the following year, and because

537
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:30,079
they he and several others win their elections and are

538
00:37:30,079 --> 00:37:34,599
appointed seats in parliament. This is essentially an amnesty that's

539
00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:38,800
given to them despite their previous you know, conviction.

540
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, because a thing that I didn't understood until I

541
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:48,000
studied administrative law is that if you're a politician, unless

542
00:37:48,039 --> 00:37:51,360
you get caught red handed on a committing a crime,

543
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,800
they cannot send you to jail, at least and at

544
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,239
least here in Spain, and I think the same the

545
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,800
same this happen in this regard because they couldn't like

546
00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:09,559
completely ascertain or say that they were the materials. They

547
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:12,760
could say they were involved, but not the material actors.

548
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:18,199
So that's that plausible deniability is what allowed them to

549
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:18,960
be released.

550
00:38:21,039 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: Excellent, all right, So.

551
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 4: The same year, Largo Cabierro was formally named leader of

552
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,960
the UGT and Speaker of the PSOE as Pablo Iglesias

553
00:38:38,039 --> 00:38:42,400
moved to retire from political activities due to his health

554
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:52,239
and old age. And so interestingly, Largo Cabilero actually worked

555
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:57,400
very hard and was very serious about his beliefs.

556
00:38:58,400 --> 00:38:59,159
Speaker 3: He worked with that.

557
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:08,519
Speaker 4: Institute for Social Reform, and he was very vocal about

558
00:39:09,039 --> 00:39:11,840
workers organizing within the bounds of the law, working with

559
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:17,320
the institutions to achieve their goals, improve their lives, while

560
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:23,280
still saying, yes, our goal is to enact socialism. And

561
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,519
so the really interesting thing is that this is taking

562
00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:31,039
place at the you know, against the backdrop of the

563
00:39:31,039 --> 00:39:36,199
communist revolution in Russia and the spread of Bolshevik influence.

564
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:46,880
And so this success of these more radical strains reinforces

565
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:55,239
the radicalization and booize the radicals in Spain, whether anarchist, socialist, communists,

566
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,039
et cetera. You know, A fair bit of this, frankly,

567
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,400
is that a lot of resource versus were then able

568
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:06,920
to be directed by the Soviet Union into these other

569
00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:13,119
other parties. That because the p PCE wasn't born yet

570
00:40:13,159 --> 00:40:14,920
at this point, it.

571
00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:18,800
Speaker 5: Still needed a couple more years. But the main, the

572
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,360
main thing is that the socialists, a sector of the socialists,

573
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:30,239
were steadily being radicalized, and that that eventually became the PC.

574
00:40:30,559 --> 00:40:33,719
The Communists in the case of the anarchy is they

575
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:38,320
essentially broke apart from collaborating with the Socialists. They said, okay,

576
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,880
we have to kill people, we have to take buildings,

577
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,480
we have to burn churches, all of that. They said, okay,

578
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:50,719
we need results and we need we need them now.

579
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,079
But Largo Kabra at that time was still a kind

580
00:40:54,079 --> 00:40:59,079
of staunch moderate, so he resisted very well along along

581
00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:05,679
with others like Mbato, the advance of the radical sector

582
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:09,800
and that is what made the radicals leave the Socialists,

583
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:14,199
while the Socialists kept their core pretty pretty much untouched.

584
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:19,039
Speaker 4: And so in nineteen twenty two is when that formal

585
00:41:19,079 --> 00:41:26,599
schism happened at the party level, where the Communist Party

586
00:41:26,599 --> 00:41:33,159
of Spain was birthed in nineteen twenty two, primarily from

587
00:41:33,639 --> 00:41:37,440
radicals who had split off from that PSOE party.

588
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 5: The radicals of the Socialists of the pisodic where you

589
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:47,039
could say the leadership, because the PC was formed from

590
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:53,719
small communists communist parties and associations that were regional, they

591
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:58,880
were very small, and then they all concentrated in the Communist.

592
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,159
Speaker 2: Party great excellent, well put.

593
00:42:02,559 --> 00:42:05,599
Speaker 4: And so nineteen twenty two what happens in nineteen twenty three,

594
00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:12,239
the coup deetas, with General Primo de Rivera as figurehead,

595
00:42:13,199 --> 00:42:19,119
basically put politics on hold in Spain. At this point,

596
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,800
you know, it's fair to say that the quartest was

597
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:32,239
essentially suspended and everything became top down. Calvo Sotello was

598
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:39,800
appointed Minister of Revenue and this became this is why

599
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,480
they hated him so much, even though, like on paper,

600
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,239
he was kind of a middle of the road conservative

601
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,719
in a lot of ways. When he was assassinated, although

602
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,559
they saw him as a primary enemy because of his

603
00:42:55,559 --> 00:42:59,880
his political stances under the dictatorship.

604
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,800
Speaker 5: Even though, like it was said in the article of

605
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,960
Carlo Hotel, a lot of people saw him kind of

606
00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:10,239
like a communist or a socialist. And it was in

607
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,159
because of his work in the Ministry of Revenue, because

608
00:43:15,199 --> 00:43:19,559
he was trying to trying to stabilize the value of

609
00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:22,440
the Pasetta, he was trying to stop the inflation, and

610
00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:26,519
he was introducing reforms that a lot of people didn't like,

611
00:43:26,679 --> 00:43:30,679
but he said, no, we need this, stop complaining.

612
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:37,559
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's interesting because Largo Cabierro worked with the

613
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:45,360
dictatorship because again, the dictatorship reached out directly to them

614
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:53,639
to collaborate within the Ministry of Labor in the Lecio

615
00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:58,639
Prieto for example, who was younger kind of new guard.

616
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,760
Speaker 5: H well, not exactly a new guard. He was already

617
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:10,360
a member of parliament in during the parliamentary monarchy. I

618
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,599
could talk about one thing that he did was absolutely

619
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:16,599
scummy back then, but it's not. It's not.

620
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,199
Speaker 2: It has no relation with this, Okay.

621
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:24,039
Speaker 5: The thing is that the collaboration that the is that

622
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:29,400
Cavalero deciding to collaborate with the dictatorship what almost caused

623
00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:33,599
another schism in the episode because the mother the young

624
00:44:33,679 --> 00:44:37,400
moderates of Prieto essentially said no, we shouldn't do it,

625
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:44,360
because doing this, we're reducing the prestige of the socialists.

626
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,800
We are actually selling out to these people that don't

627
00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,199
have our best interests in mind. They just want to

628
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:55,480
draw us in, and Largo Cavale pretty much said, dictatorship

629
00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:58,199
or not, if they allow us to do our work,

630
00:44:58,239 --> 00:44:59,039
we will do it.

631
00:44:59,719 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

632
00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:10,159
Speaker 4: Classic So interestingly that you know this is another expression

633
00:45:10,199 --> 00:45:14,559
of this. There was another schism within the PSOE which

634
00:45:14,599 --> 00:45:18,840
took place soon Pablo Iglesias passed away in nineteen twenty five.

635
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,760
Largo Cabiiro becomes the formal leader of the PSOE and

636
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:29,920
accepts an appointment by Primo de Rivera to Supreme Council

637
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:35,320
of Labor, Trade and Industry, which again unites representatives of

638
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:41,800
workers and businessmen from different trades across economic sectors to

639
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:46,039
work with the government to resolve these things.

640
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 3: And again this is seen.

641
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 4: You know, some people love it and it gets a

642
00:45:51,039 --> 00:45:53,000
lot of support because they're like, we can make real

643
00:45:53,079 --> 00:45:57,679
progress here. This also causes a lot of resentment and

644
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:06,599
hatred because it's seen as collaboration with a dictatorship, all right.

645
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 3: And so I think.

646
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 4: What really starts happening, interestingly, is that in nineteen twenty seven,

647
00:46:18,079 --> 00:46:20,519
the dictatorship declares that there's going to be a newly

648
00:46:20,559 --> 00:46:24,679
constituted parliament, but it's going to be appointed representatives and

649
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:30,960
not elected. And so this really creates a huge problem

650
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:38,320
with the socialist parties who want to collaborate, and they

651
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:43,400
even though they in nineteen twenty nine come to Largo

652
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:48,039
Cabiro and say you can name five of the representatives

653
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,719
and then we'll choose the rest, and the socialist refuse

654
00:46:53,360 --> 00:47:00,880
to participate and demanded elections. And then interestingly, you know,

655
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:08,840
Primo Rivera passes away and by nine, you know, nineteen

656
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:14,519
thirty larger. Cabiro considered his efforts to collaborate like exhausted,

657
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:16,960
but a lot of it was because of the pressure

658
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:20,599
that he was getting from within the PSOE and other

659
00:47:20,639 --> 00:47:22,400
people in leadership.

660
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 5: Yeah. Essentially, the more moderates, like their holy Unpistata, we're

661
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,440
telling him that, no, we can still do our job.

662
00:47:29,639 --> 00:47:33,159
We can still achieve our goals within the bounds of

663
00:47:33,199 --> 00:47:37,000
the law. We can still do this without taking up

664
00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:41,199
arms like these lunatics that left our party did.

665
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:41,639
Speaker 2: Yeah.

666
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, Do you want to explain the Pact of Son

667
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,119
Sebastian of nineteen thirty a little bit?

668
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 5: Okay, The Pact of San Sebastian was essentially an agreement

669
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:03,639
between at the time, of course, there were no political parties,

670
00:48:03,679 --> 00:48:08,559
but there would be the leaders of the future Republican parties,

671
00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:15,920
between Athanya Diego, Martinez, Barrio, Santiago, Casaris Kiroga. They essentially

672
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,239
wanted to put the republic in place, but they did

673
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:22,760
they knew that by themselves, just by themselves, they didn't

674
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,599
have enough support, and that's why they came to the

675
00:48:25,679 --> 00:48:28,679
to the Socialists to tell them, Okay, if we do this,

676
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,920
if we achieve the republic, if we do it with

677
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,159
your help, you will be part of the government. And

678
00:48:35,679 --> 00:48:38,519
of course the socialists agreed because it was a very

679
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:44,440
very tempting offer in that regard, and the pact of

680
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:48,039
sense absent the fact that Largo Cabaira decided to collaborate there,

681
00:48:48,679 --> 00:48:53,239
it is kind of it kind of washed away the

682
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:57,679
guilt that he had in collaborating with the dictatorship because

683
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:00,519
now he was collaborating with the public.

684
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 3: Very well put thank you. So you know, this is where.

685
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,679
Speaker 4: We see this this thing that is perplexing to a

686
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:18,840
lot of people, which is that very quickly as they start,

687
00:49:19,159 --> 00:49:23,280
you know, moving into this new period where the dictatorship

688
00:49:24,199 --> 00:49:28,320
and the republic are art or i should say, the

689
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:34,760
dictatorship is essentially creating the conditions for the restoration of

690
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:41,360
a constitutional monarchy and the republic by the with the

691
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,760
reinstitution of the quartes. And there's this republican movement.

692
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 5: And in.

693
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 4: There's a plan for December fifteenth, nineteen thirty for an

694
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,440
anti monarchist armed insurrection in general strike.

695
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:06,119
Speaker 5: Originally the plan was for three days later, but the

696
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:12,239
people in charge of this insurrection, the sublivation of Hakka. Uh,

697
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:16,400
they kind of got a little bit nervous that they

698
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,719
were going to be found out, and they decided to

699
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:24,559
do it earlier, and that through an enormous ranch on

700
00:50:24,639 --> 00:50:28,800
the plans of the of the Republicans, because now they

701
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:33,119
were very afraid that the that Berenger was going to

702
00:50:33,199 --> 00:50:34,559
arrest them all too.

703
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 4: And so the basically a bunch of people flee the

704
00:50:42,039 --> 00:50:47,239
country or remain in hiding. But then the newly designated

705
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:56,639
dictator asnar Admiral, decides, let's proceed with elections. I want

706
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,159
to bring the temperature down. That's surely going to do

707
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:05,159
it by by appeasing them, you know, to a certain degree. Again,

708
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:10,519
this is what the Republican you know, the Republican parties are,

709
00:51:10,559 --> 00:51:13,440
what became the republic that the parties that were pro

710
00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:19,639
republic framed these local elections as a moratorium on the

711
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:24,320
you know this plan, yeah, the monarchy in general. And

712
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:31,239
so they they went for it essentially and declared their

713
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:36,800
you know, pretty decent performance in the elections, uh, to

714
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:42,519
basically have to say, well, obviously, because we got elected, uh,

715
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:46,719
you know that that no one wants the monarchy, and

716
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:50,400
so like the king and many members of the dictatorship

717
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:51,880
flee Spain at this point.

718
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,199
Speaker 5: A thing that you have to it is usually not said,

719
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,039
but it's very important, is that at the time the

720
00:51:58,159 --> 00:52:01,840
king lost the support of the army, he had no

721
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:07,119
one behind him because with the destitution of Miguel Primo

722
00:52:07,199 --> 00:52:11,199
de Rivera, the dictator, he essentially pissed off the entire army.

723
00:52:11,519 --> 00:52:15,599
Primo de Riverta was a very conducorated general, very prestigious

724
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:19,360
war hero, nobleman. He was kind of the man that

725
00:52:19,639 --> 00:52:22,400
all everyone in the army looked up to, and the

726
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,159
king essentially told him, no, I don't like what you did.

727
00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:32,639
Pisce off. You have to consider okay, because when the

728
00:52:32,639 --> 00:52:39,159
elections were won, an attachment of the army and the

729
00:52:39,199 --> 00:52:44,840
police were sent to arrest the leaders of the Republican parties,

730
00:52:45,559 --> 00:52:50,920
and the person in charge, which was San Jorgo important name,

731
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:57,719
essentially said hail the republic hailed the new president, and

732
00:52:58,159 --> 00:52:59,159
they just let them go.

733
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 4: That is incredibly interesting, you know, Pete, I don't think

734
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:11,679
that that's something that is very clearly explained, the loss

735
00:53:11,679 --> 00:53:15,840
of the support because of essentially what's seen as like

736
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:19,360
an insulting or betrayal of the army. That's not really

737
00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,880
well explained in most of the English language histories as

738
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:23,719
the cause of that.

739
00:53:24,480 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 1: No, I don't know that I ever read I've read

740
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,559
that in anyone's book, even Pains.

741
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,599
Speaker 4: And it's so important because that's something that we see

742
00:53:33,639 --> 00:53:37,400
all the time in modern politics, as people are like, no,

743
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,239
you have to keep voting for the guy who's like

744
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:40,840
continuously insulting you.

745
00:53:41,079 --> 00:53:43,519
Speaker 5: For me, it's very surprising that not a lot of

746
00:53:43,559 --> 00:53:48,599
people say that, because a thing important is that the

747
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:53,280
king had at this time in nineteen thirty he had

748
00:53:53,599 --> 00:53:56,559
no one. He pissed off the army and the politicians

749
00:53:56,599 --> 00:54:01,519
were against him. Incredible because in nineteen twenty one he

750
00:54:01,679 --> 00:54:06,119
did a speech in which he pretty much and he verbatim,

751
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:10,440
very very brief, he said, your politicians are a bunch

752
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,800
of uselucidiots. You do nothing, You become obstacles for progress.

753
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:23,679
I should have power. He was a little bit drunk, I.

754
00:54:23,599 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 4: Admit, Yeah, that's that's incredible.

755
00:54:28,199 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, all that's a good lesson for everyone.

756
00:54:30,519 --> 00:54:33,920
Speaker 5: Yeah. He with that speech long time ago. He pissed

757
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:37,280
off all the politicians and by this missing Primo de Rivera,

758
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:38,599
he pissed off the army.

759
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 2: Incredible, it should.

760
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: I mean, it really goes to show not that it

761
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:49,920
was done this way purposely, but by causing the military,

762
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:55,199
you know, forcing Bioleninism upon the military exactly what you

763
00:54:55,239 --> 00:55:01,760
know what Obama and the Obama administer, well, the regime

764
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,920
under Obama and the regime under Biden, exactly what they

765
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:05,360
were doing.

766
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:06,519
Speaker 2: Yeah.

767
00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:12,400
Speaker 4: Absolutely incredible, That's that's that's wonderful. I'm so glad. I'm

768
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,360
so glad that we're doing this. This is great. So

769
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,960
the the period of the Republic, I feel like we've

770
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,280
talked about it a lot, and I kind of want

771
00:55:22,320 --> 00:55:26,239
to skim some of the details at this point in time.

772
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 3: But but I.

773
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:33,039
Speaker 4: Think what the real important takeaways here, for like Largo Cabrieiro,

774
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:37,679
he becomes an integral part of the provisional government. Again,

775
00:55:38,039 --> 00:55:44,719
this isn't a elected government that there were these local elections,

776
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:49,079
but the provisional government is just put together by this

777
00:55:49,199 --> 00:55:53,920
socialist coalition by this quote unquote Republican coalition. Largo Cabrierro

778
00:55:54,079 --> 00:55:57,239
is at the helm of the Ministry of Labor. He

779
00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:01,400
presents numerous labor reforms, such as the forty hour work week,

780
00:56:02,599 --> 00:56:05,880
the Law of contracts, which I don't know a ton about,

781
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:10,880
and then the creation of the mixed juries which would

782
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:15,280
be basically these boards that would solve the speeds between

783
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:18,000
workers and business owners.

784
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 2: What's the law of contracts more.

785
00:56:21,639 --> 00:56:27,519
Speaker 5: Love contracts is essentially that if you start a work

786
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:32,119
relationship with someone, meaning that you get hired by someone,

787
00:56:32,159 --> 00:56:37,039
that person has to formalize that working relationship through a

788
00:56:37,679 --> 00:56:41,559
written document that is a contract, in order to establish

789
00:56:41,599 --> 00:56:45,239
that yes, you work for them, and that they cannot

790
00:56:46,199 --> 00:56:51,119
essentially what is called in Spain and an undue firing,

791
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:56,039
that he can dismiss you just like that, because by

792
00:56:56,079 --> 00:57:00,000
that contract you essentially have a certain set of privilege,

793
00:57:00,199 --> 00:57:02,840
just that you can demand that person like for example,

794
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:07,639
you have been working for five years, if your contract

795
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:13,039
is terminated, you can get how much was it was

796
00:57:13,360 --> 00:57:20,039
you get You get twenty days of wage for every

797
00:57:20,159 --> 00:57:24,480
year you have worked as compensation for firing.

798
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,519
Speaker 4: So codified severance packages.

799
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, pretty much. It's kind of that. It's both to

800
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,760
ensure things for the worker and the for the employer.

801
00:57:36,199 --> 00:57:43,079
Speaker 4: Okay, that makes sense. Interesting, Okay, So essentially what happens though,

802
00:57:43,199 --> 00:57:47,039
is that you know, this is stuff that seems fairly

803
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,840
moderate to us, but it's also they were very you know,

804
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:54,119
the characterization is that they were blatantly biased in favor

805
00:57:54,159 --> 00:57:58,480
of workers and not necessarily as balanced as they could be,

806
00:58:00,039 --> 00:58:06,840
you know, according to certain business interests. So that said,

807
00:58:07,719 --> 00:58:16,920
Largo Cabierro starts wanting to institute more radical socialist policies,

808
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:23,199
and the Republic is in this position as well. In general,

809
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,440
they you know, they have the religious laws, they have

810
00:58:26,519 --> 00:58:33,239
their new constitution, which is really interesting in that, you know,

811
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,920
there are constraints upon the government and the new constitution.

812
00:58:39,119 --> 00:58:44,239
There's also like real assertions of power that the state

813
00:58:44,280 --> 00:58:48,119
had never had previously in the same constitution. So like

814
00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:50,400
no one's happy essentially.

815
00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:52,480
Speaker 5: And also you have to keep in mind that there

816
00:58:52,519 --> 00:58:56,360
are there are two very important laws that were enacted

817
00:58:56,960 --> 00:59:03,239
in this period in thirty one, and one of them,

818
00:59:03,519 --> 00:59:07,360
much later would become very effective. They say it's a

819
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:11,679
very effective tool of oppression of the Franco regime or whatever,

820
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:16,920
and that it has a very very funny name. For me,

821
00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:21,840
it's elated the Vago simalaiantes or a law of Vagrants

822
00:59:21,840 --> 00:59:29,639
and hood looms, which essentially started the construction of prison

823
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,679
camps in Spain, by the way, but by nineteen thirty

824
00:59:32,719 --> 00:59:39,519
two important and the other law was the Law of

825
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:47,960
Citizen Protection. That law was enacted through most of the

826
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:52,440
government in thirty six. And to summarize it in brief,

827
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:55,840
extremely brief, it's a lot that allows the government to

828
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:57,159
suspend its constitution.

829
00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 4: Very important because the that that essentially it's that's essentially

830
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:10,199
the state of emergency that they're in, uh that this

831
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:17,320
government is in, so that they can essentially favor the

832
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:21,000
oppression of the right, for example, and say that it's

833
01:00:21,199 --> 01:00:26,000
legally justifiable, so that this is the the state that

834
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:32,159
you know, it's codified, that they're essentially allowed to ignore

835
01:00:32,199 --> 01:00:35,920
their own constitution, you know. Is the is the characterization

836
01:00:36,039 --> 01:00:36,960
that people make.

837
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,960
Speaker 5: They only they only they didn't do it only for

838
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:46,760
that because in sure in April there would be local

839
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:51,280
elections also in Spain. And the thing is that Athaniel

840
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:55,320
which was the president then center left by the way,

841
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:00,000
he knew that if the elections run its course legally,

842
01:01:00,599 --> 01:01:04,280
the left would most likely loose, and so he enacted

843
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:08,559
this law to suspend the elections indefinitely.

844
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:10,519
Speaker 2: That's right.

845
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 4: And then when they had the thirty three you know,

846
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:21,280
thirty three slash thirty four period, say that the Catholic

847
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:27,280
right wing coalition wins, but the Republic essentially doesn't allow

848
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:29,000
them to form a government.

849
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 5: That is because rose Maria Hill Groblez. He was called

850
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:41,239
an accidentalist. His main objective, his main political objective was

851
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:45,440
to destroy the Republic, and he almost achieved it if

852
01:01:45,480 --> 01:01:49,920
it wasn't for obviously all the people that prevented him.

853
01:01:50,199 --> 01:01:53,280
But the thing is that he was allowed. Theda was

854
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:58,639
allowed into the government if no one from THEDA was

855
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:03,679
part of the government, yes, no ministries and also no president.

856
01:02:05,159 --> 01:02:09,559
That is why the president was Alexandro Lea Rooks, which

857
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:14,119
was a center right politician more or less he supported

858
01:02:14,119 --> 01:02:19,760
the right wing causes. The thing is that in August

859
01:02:19,840 --> 01:02:25,199
of thirty four was when Theda said, Okay, we have

860
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:27,480
done a good a good deal of things, but there's

861
01:02:27,559 --> 01:02:30,559
a government crisis and now if you want our support,

862
01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:36,639
you have to allow us to take ministries. And that

863
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,639
is that was something that a lot of people really

864
01:02:39,719 --> 01:02:43,519
really really didn't like, as you well know.

865
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:48,199
Speaker 4: And the most amusing thing is that they gave them

866
01:02:48,559 --> 01:02:49,320
the military.

867
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:55,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, Mari Rogles, the was the defense minister, which was

868
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:58,039
pretty amusing.

869
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:03,000
Speaker 4: Which is essentially what allowed the military conspiracy, as well

870
01:03:03,079 --> 01:03:11,159
as the to a degree, the organization of the Carlist

871
01:03:11,239 --> 01:03:16,400
recutees in particular, as well as the thalong Hey training

872
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:21,840
and militarization and equipment gathering. Although the financing for that

873
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,599
came from the party's own coffers, that wasn't coming from

874
01:03:25,599 --> 01:03:27,360
the military, but it did.

875
01:03:27,679 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 2: It did reduce a.

876
01:03:28,880 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 4: Certain level of oversight that they would have gotten from

877
01:03:32,039 --> 01:03:37,239
Republican officials who still nonetheless tried their best to control

878
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:41,119
the military as much as possible, well particularly identifying who

879
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:43,679
was a Republican and who was the thing.

880
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:49,239
Speaker 5: The thing is that there was, ever since the monarchy,

881
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:55,800
politicians in Spain had this huge interest on making the

882
01:03:55,840 --> 01:04:01,559
military submit to their authority, and obviously the military didn't

883
01:04:01,679 --> 01:04:04,360
like that. The thing is that during the republic they

884
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,400
tried it even harder, and that pissed off a lot

885
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:12,400
of old military, old people in the military officers especially.

886
01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:17,599
And the thing, like you said in the thing that

887
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,760
the fact that Hill Roberts was a Minister of War

888
01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:26,000
allowed a lot of things to happen during his rule. Still,

889
01:04:26,039 --> 01:04:28,960
the main bulk of the of the conspiracy was in

890
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:34,679
thirty six, just just seven months. Seven months. Yeah, but

891
01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:38,079
a lot of work was done during this time. And

892
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:43,440
it is also during this time when in thirty four,

893
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:48,559
after the after the October Revolution is put down, that

894
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:54,639
the UM the Military Spanol or Spanish Military Union is born,

895
01:04:54,960 --> 01:05:00,400
which is a right wing military association within the army.

896
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:06,239
They are more or less underground and there their first

897
01:05:07,039 --> 01:05:12,199
their first publication is really amazing. I read parts of it.

898
01:05:12,239 --> 01:05:16,519
I couldn't find the the full text, but it was

899
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:21,719
impassionate to say the least. And shortly after left wing

900
01:05:22,519 --> 01:05:28,199
Military Union is also born to counteract. Yes, silent war

901
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:34,000
is brewing within the within the army, and that is

902
01:05:34,119 --> 01:05:38,119
why the new courts of the army, like the Air Force,

903
01:05:38,599 --> 01:05:42,079
they remained mainly loyal to the Republic while the army

904
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:44,880
sublevated almost completely.

905
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:52,559
Speaker 4: And also so, not only is this military conspiracy taking

906
01:05:52,599 --> 01:05:55,920
place and in the right wing parties, as I pointed out,

907
01:05:56,000 --> 01:06:03,480
the the among the Carlists and the Phalanghey on the left,

908
01:06:03,519 --> 01:06:09,760
the CNT and the and their FAI subdivision in particular,

909
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:13,360
are all in on on getting.

910
01:06:13,119 --> 01:06:14,239
Speaker 3: Ready for revolution.

911
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:20,599
Speaker 4: Largo Caveiro and uh you know other socialists and communists

912
01:06:20,639 --> 01:06:23,840
also began to do the same thing. They started sending

913
01:06:24,679 --> 01:06:28,159
some of their trusted people to the to the Soviet

914
01:06:28,280 --> 01:06:30,880
Union training the military, a.

915
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:33,119
Speaker 5: Lot of them, a lot of them mainly from the PC,

916
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,519
but also from the Socialists and the CNT. For example,

917
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:41,880
Juane Grin, which was a Communist, he went to Russia

918
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:45,679
and he became the main joint between the Socialists and

919
01:06:45,719 --> 01:06:51,519
the Russian agents in Spain. Also Enrique Lister who received

920
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:55,119
military training in Moscow and he also worked in the

921
01:06:55,159 --> 01:06:59,000
construction of Moscow subway through because he was a stone cutter,

922
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:05,599
but he received training and also a political like political

923
01:07:06,199 --> 01:07:09,760
lessons in in Moscow. A lot a lot of the

924
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,519
Spanish that went there were mainly from the political branch,

925
01:07:13,639 --> 01:07:19,119
and they learned Russian so they could serve later as

926
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:24,639
as a liaison to communicate with Russian agents in Spain.

927
01:07:26,360 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 4: Which is incredibly important and and it illustrates how the

928
01:07:31,239 --> 01:07:36,920
Soviet Union was able to essentially take over the the

929
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:41,199
Republic so quickly when when the civil war actually began

930
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:44,280
and essentially owned the army almost out of the gate,

931
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:49,360
like within what a month and a half mmmm ish

932
01:07:49,719 --> 01:07:54,320
two three months more like, very very dominant. They essentially

933
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:57,639
got to rebrand it and then when the Soviet supplies

934
01:07:57,679 --> 01:07:59,559
were coming in and all of a sudden they have

935
01:07:59,599 --> 01:08:03,239
these new uniforms with red rank insignia and red stars

936
01:08:03,320 --> 01:08:04,440
and comments stars.

937
01:08:04,639 --> 01:08:09,679
Speaker 5: And because because remember that the Republic after the sublivation

938
01:08:09,840 --> 01:08:13,920
took place, they had the marvelous idea of this band

939
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:14,519
in the army.

940
01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:18,840
Speaker 4: Yes that's right, and be militias only.

941
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:23,640
Speaker 5: And the problem is that, because Athaya tells it in

942
01:08:24,199 --> 01:08:29,520
a book, is that absolutely everyone in Spain that remained

943
01:08:29,520 --> 01:08:32,159
loyal to the Republic wanted to do politics. They wanted

944
01:08:32,199 --> 01:08:35,199
to do the revolution. They wanted to do absolutely everything

945
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:37,560
except making an army.

946
01:08:39,039 --> 01:08:39,680
Speaker 2: Incredible.

947
01:08:40,319 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 5: That is why the communists took such a preponderant role

948
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:47,399
in the Republic, because they were the main force that

949
01:08:47,560 --> 01:08:48,880
built the army.

950
01:08:50,239 --> 01:08:55,319
Speaker 4: Incredible. It's like it's like drinking your own kool aid?

951
01:08:55,399 --> 01:08:59,640
Is the is the American term a reference to Jim

952
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:01,760
Joon Ones and their suicide cult.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think so. I think in England they

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say to hoist your own pitard or something.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes they do.

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Speaker 3: We we use that as well.

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Speaker 4: H