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Speaker 1: The Pekanyonashow dot com. Everything's there. I want to welcome
everyone back to the Peking Yona's show, Carl dolls back
and talk to more Spanish Civil War.
Speaker 2: Carl, how are you doing doing great?
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2: Why don't you introduce your friend?
Speaker 1: This is this is a gentleman you've introduced me to
and you've talked about in the past, So go right ahead.
Speaker 4: Great, I will lead off and then hand it over.
So my friend and correspondent Morgre, who is a writer
and artist from Spain, who I've been collaborating with on
a series of articles on my sub stack, the Now
and Then series. Really great content that he's been providing,
and you know, a lot of it is the a
a Spanish orientation that often doesn't show up in you know,
the English language material that comes up but is fairly
well known in Spain, easily accessible, and so a lot
of the material that I've been able to provide in
the last like what is it six eight you know,
six to eight months or so on this topic has
been with Morger. So welcome, and please introduce yourself as
much as you want to.
Speaker 5: Well, hello, it is well I can and I am
a little bit nervous because I don't appear in podcasts
that much, but I am Morger I'm from Spain. I
troll I write. I have aspirations as an artist, but
very humble and this series of articles about the Spanish
Civil War. Initially there were it was kind of a
niche interest because when I studied history, Spanish history in
high school and later, the civil war and the period
of the dictatorship was very glossed over. It was usually
at the end of the academic year, so teachers wanted
to get it done as quickly as possible and they
and essentially, the general conception of the Spanish Civil War
is that the legal, peaceful and righteous republic elected left
leaning government and some military people that were very evil
decided to take them down. That is the general widespread
idea that happened. But if you look deeper, if you
go beyond the surface, you start noticing a lot of discrepancies,
a lot of information that there is evidence and retellings,
not only of historians or individuals that are obscure, not that.
For example, a lot of evidence of the public disturbances
that took place during the thirty six come from the
president of the government, no President of Parliament, Nathol He
literally said the left manipulated the elections and there there
is widespread banditry and riots in Spain, and it is
amazing that a lot of people don't know about it. Then,
to a certain degree, I think this is kind of
a public service announcement, especially when so many people talk
about civil war. There's going to be this is a
situation like the Spanish Civil War, relating to a lot
of things that are happening right now.
Speaker 4: Great, all right, so thank you. What we're going to
do here is for some of our for some of
our listeners. Just to be clear, we're going to be
walking through this article in particular, as well as sprinkling
and some additional commentary. It is now and then an
anatomy of a leftist Part two Francisco Largo Caballero the
radicalization of a moderate Socialist. And that was kind of
my own spin on the language based on the reading,
you know, because I think it tells a clear story
as to kind of how we get here. Some people
might characterize it slightly differently, be less charitable, but I think,
you know, it may it makes sense for this framing
and understanding, you know, the conflagration in Spain, So you know,
folks who are just listening we're not going to be
lingering on you know, images and the like too much.
We'll focus on the text and commentary. So Morgar introduced
the piece that that I edited.
Speaker 2: Down.
Speaker 4: Part of it was because there are that there's there's
information that is pretty like obvious that you can state
in a very direct way and move on in Spanish,
or I should say for a Spanish audience that I
have to explain more for Americans and sometimes I'm like,
I kind of know what that is, but I have
to look it up.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So that's if you need a more more information
context or whatever. It just asked me, I wouldn't be
glad to share.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we're we have another piece that will be
coming up which is about uh, that that Morgore wrote
that I just started on, which is very good and
I'm very excited to publish it. It's about the Servicio
de Intellehensiamilitar, the military intelligence service of the Republic, which
almost immediately was co opted by the Communists and the
NKVD from control of the Socialist government. It's very interesting.
So Moregre likes to start with a quote, whether it's
biblical or for or from literature, and in this piece
Anatomy of a Leftist Part two, and the devil who
deceived them was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur,
where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown.
They will be tormented day and night, forever and ever.
And that's from Revelation twenty ten.
Speaker 3: So the.
Speaker 4: I think the way to summarize Francisco Largo Cabaerro and
feel free to jump in is that he was a
fellow coming from circumstances that were very common in Spain.
And one of the themes that can be a little
challenging sometimes with an American audience, that like our front
friend Thomas seven seven seven always talks about, is that
the conditions on the ground, like politically and economically for
the working class in America were very different.
Speaker 3: Than that in Europe.
Speaker 4: And so the whole reason fashis is a thing or
was a thing in Europe, but never was really I mean,
I can say at the time of the communist uprisings
really necessary in America was because the conditions weren't ripe
in America to require a counter a counter movement to
address a lot of the things that would appeal to,
you know, the lower classes in Europe because we had means,
you know, economic and political that were not necessarily as available.
We were much more enfranchised. And again it depends on
where you're at in Spain where people would feel less
enfranchised versus more enfranchised.
Speaker 5: Yes, because I think you said it in the talk
you had with Astrol, I listened to it. It was
it was very good just to plug here. But the
thing is that, of course it's easily understandable for me
because I'm from Spain. I know my country better than you,
and you know your country better than me, So you
have to understand that. At the time, a lot of
people I also have to explain the industrial the Latin
industrialization model that to summarize is like people say that
in Latin countries and Latin I mean Spain, Portugal, Italy,
the Mediterranean nations, industrialization is a much slower process and
comes with a greater deal of challenges in order to
achieve that level of proper industrialization. So the thing that
happens is that at the time Spain was still industrialized
and there was a transition that was steady, but of
course it led to a lot of conflict in factories
and production areas. Mainly in Basque country, where most foundaries
of Spain are in Austurias, where most mining operations were
not right now. But the greatest problem in Spain was
in Andalusia, and it is because most of the land
in Andalusia belonged back then, belonged to the nobility. They
had huge, huge properties for vineyards or olive trees, and
that meant that the people only worked during the harvest.
There was a lot of work during the harvest and
the rest of the year. If you were a normal person,
you had to scrape by with whatever you could have.
So it was you have to understand that a lot
of people in Andalouthia, where this possessed completely, nobody offered anything.
And also the same in Catalonia, because I remember that
you said that a lot of people were coming from
the countryside. Something like that happened in Andalusia they moved north.
But in Catalonia it was usually a tradition that if
the father dies, the father of the family dies, the
first son inherits everything and the others get nothing, so
they have to strike out on their own. And that
made a lot of people from the countryside slowly moved
to the cities, and it fed a lot into the
workers' movement. That is why in Andalusia the socialist and
the anarchists were so big, why Catalonius is still to
this day the main stronghold of the left in Spain.
Speaker 3: Well put.
Speaker 4: And it's interesting with Largo Cabierro, so he was born
in Madrid. And one of the things that I've seen,
and I'd be interested in your perspective on this, but
it you know, Madrid has has is much more of
a stronghold of like a socialist like a state socialist vibe.
And I think it's the fact that you know, that's
the seat of the national government. And my understanding and
from conversations I've had with people, is that it's not
it's not the same thing as other places it was.
It was created, it was instituted as the capital because
it was in the middle of the country and and
it was less it developed less organically than say, you know,
the countryside anywhere else or or or towns elsewhere.
Speaker 3: And would you.
Speaker 4: Say that's a fair characterization that drop that drove like
state socialism versus anarchism in Madrid.
Speaker 5: To a certain degree, Yes, because his stor the capital
of Spain was Toledo. It was the main city, and
Madrid is just a little bit further north from Toledo.
But the thing is that is, like you say, a
lot of the development in Madrid is is not organic.
It is heavily promoted by the government because of course
the capital and the parliament and the royal palace, everything
is in there, so of course the seat of power
is going to try to grow as large as possible
in order to provide for all of the people living there.
The thing is that in terms of socialism and anarchism,
back then, with the huge development and especially with the industry,
it led to a lot of people, a lot of
conflict with the with foreman's and businessmen mainly. The thing
is that anarchism and socialism, I don't want to say
that there is special tifically deviated that much because initially
they worked together and it was after after the radical
radicalization that they split apart. So initially they had like
a common front. They worked very well together, and it
was later when they split apart, the socialists wanted to
still negotiate. It is, they still wanted to work with
the government, and the anarchyst said no, we have to kill.
Speaker 4: Them all very very well. Put thank yeah, that's that's
very good to explain. I try not to put my
putin hat on and go too far back. But do
you do you think that my understanding is a lot
of that split that in Spain, this the non Marxist state,
Socialists and the anarchists kept more of a of a
of a thread together with one another despite what was
going on in the Second International.
Speaker 3: Would you would you.
Speaker 4: Say that's a fair characterization from me.
Speaker 5: You're under standing on the anarchist side, I'm not so sure,
But on the socialist side, yes, because the thing that happened,
very very peculiar, is that with the Second International, actually
Largo Cavalero distance itself from the International.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he moved aside. The problem is that as things
developed later on, he saw, Okay, I have been in
politics for nearly fifty years and I have achieved very little.
I have to do something like right now, and I
think that is an important part that drove him towards
the collaboration with the communists. But still inside the Socialist Party,
even to the end of the war, there was a
sector that actively was actively anti Marxist and it was
led by Juliambstato. Really interesting guy as well.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right. So you know, there's so much to
explore in this topic. I'll take my putin hat off
and hang it up, but keep it handy because this
is great color.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 4: Largo Kabiiro was born, as you pointed out, he was
in politics for a very long time.
Speaker 2: How long.
Speaker 4: He was born in eighteen sixty nine in Madrid. His
parents divorced four years after his birth, so mother and
son were on their own. They moved to Granada. His
mother worked in an inn. Largo Cabeiro began to attend
school and then they were forced to return to Madrid
and live with a relative a year later, so at
age seven, Largo Kabierro left school at age seven and
went to work, first as an apprentice and a cardboard
factory and then as a rope maker. At the age
of nine, he transitioned into working as a plasterer, which
paid much better.
Speaker 5: Yeah, consider a lot better here in as a salary
of the time, here in fifteen pacitas compared to the
average twos.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, that that's a huge difference. Yeah, but it
was variable demand, so it would you would you characterize
it as seasonal work.
Speaker 5: Kind of yeah, because it depended on like redevelopments and
houses as well as expansions, like they get a theater
and they need one, and it's essentially once the work
is done, you never know when you're going to go
back to work, and.
Speaker 2: That that's true, and that.
Speaker 5: Kind of irregularity in work demand forced Lago Cavier to
take other works, like he was a fruit salesman, he
was a construction worker, he was a farm hand, a
lot of things.
Speaker 4: So the the interesting thing is for those who who
participate or who listened to the shows that Pete and
I did about kind of the nineteenth century leftist movements,
this will make sense. So Largo Cabier was growing up
in this era of opening in Spain or political loosening,
where the Cortes is getting a little more powerful and
there's more of a diversity of political movements. The left
is growing as a movement, but.
Speaker 5: They grew immensely and it just started right then.
Speaker 4: Yes, it was brand new and it had explosive growth,
but the core test was essentially keeping a lid on
a lot of the potential conflict through the Turno pacifico,
the kind of handing off in a regular metered fashion
between the kind of institutionalized conservative and liberal parties.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the thing is that it wasn't exactly handed down.
It's because there was constant election manipulation, so to ensure
to ensure that the opposite one in order to ensure
that Okay, I'm down here, now it's your turn.
Speaker 3: Amusing, amazing, It.
Speaker 5: Is very funny.
Speaker 4: So in eighteen ninety Largo Cabiro makes his first contact
with the socialist movement. And this is really interesting because
there's a current here where Largo Cabierro is. He seems like,
instinctually his socialism is instinctual more than it's like super
ideological and based on like thought reading and being persuaded
by you know, raw ideas, although of course it would
appeal to him being a worker who's had this very tough,
unsteady existence and just the unchariety of you know, how
he grew up.
Speaker 5: So and also consider that Largo Covira didn't finish finish
his studies because he left the school. He had to
learn how to read and write later in life.
Speaker 4: Excellent, So he encounters the political movement created by the
politician Pablo Iglesia's possive.
Speaker 5: I had to to include his full name because if
today you look for public lists in googling, you will
get the picture of a guy that looks like a
hippie with a ponytail.
Speaker 3: Because he's a singer.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 5: No, it's the founder of another left wing party. Yeah,
that it happened, like in twenty twelve, twenty ten. Around
that time he founded a new political party, and now
he has gone the way of the DODO because he's
second in command kicked him out.
Speaker 2: Oh that's funny, it's amusing.
Speaker 4: So that this this follows this party in eighteen ninety,
that Largo Cabiro encounters follows. The pattern that's really important
to understand in Spanish political parties is that there's a
General Workers Union Union Henerol de Trabajadores, Yes, and then
the PSOE you can.
Speaker 5: Say episoded Partialista Redsponol if you want to know, they're
still in the elections. And there are the current ruling
party in Spain.
Speaker 4: And that is the Spanish Workers Socialist Party. Yes, and
so the labor union has a corresponding political party, and
so you can be so, so Largo Cabileiro joins the
UGT General Union for Construction Workers. But then they have
sub unions based on your specialties. It's it's the oh my,
the word is escaping me h. It's a syndicalist model.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, because in Spain the unions are called sindicato,
so it is essentially the same thing.
Speaker 4: And then that the syndicalista becomes like a code word
for like the street fighters later in the once we
get into the yeah, once like the twenties, Yeah, the
teams in twenties.
Speaker 5: Yeah, once that time comes, the syndicalistas were essentially the
newly abscribed to THEE. So they were the new guys
and they put them to the test.
Speaker 4: Interesting, that's also the code word for a like a
Star thirty two automatic from the era, because that was
the main pistol that the syndacalsis used for fighting.
Speaker 5: Damn. Yeah, wow, that that is amazing.
Speaker 3: So it's it's interesting.
Speaker 4: Largo Cabierro described this encounter he attended a speech by
Pablo Iglesias Posset, who explained the great advantage of worker
unions and organizations, and Largo kabier later described it as
light piercing the darkness. So eighteen ninety he joins the UGT.
Eighteen ninety three he formally joins the PSOE political party.
So again, to reiterate, he had a distinct lack of
a formal education. Had to learn later on he'd only
ever read the most basic Marxist texts, and Mike, I
get the feeling that he would have like dealt with
like tracts and then news articles.
Speaker 5: Yes, his main source of kind of ideology, political leanings
or you know, the ideas that he wanted to defend
and all that. He got it mainly through reading news
articles that were written by other socialists, but mainly by
public Less, who was a journalist.
Speaker 4: Ah okay, that makes sense because then the political parties
would have their own newspapers as well that would be read.
Speaker 5: It is amazing to know how many left wing people
of the time were journalists, gasp, Like the Lord was
a journalist, Santioga Ridio was a journalist. In the Letho
Pieto was a journalist. Public List was a journalist.
Speaker 4: It kind of makes sense, you know, you think that
the You see the same thing with the thought leaders
in the nineteenth centuries. They were writers and they would
get jobs as journalists and get paid through the political
parties that way. So, you know, nothing new under the
sun for the people who we think that it's some
new thing that journalism has been recently corrupted, not at all.
Speaker 5: Just remember time moves forward, nothing.
Speaker 4: Changes, yes, worth repeating so interestingly. In eighteen ninety nine,
Largo Cabiro was put in charge of the ugt's treasury
in an unpaid position. He still worked as a plasterer,
and then he was elected as a speaker in the
National Committee of the PSOE. In nineteen oh four, he
becomes the UGT representative to the Social Reform Institute, which
is its interesting. It was created by a conservative politician,
Francisco Silvela, as a joint operation between the government and
workers organizations with the intent of improving working conditions for
Spanish workers. This is something that is it's so interesting
that like the Conservatives were doing this, and it gets
back to that the whole idea behind that, that fascist instinct,
you know, scare words fascism, but in reality it's trying
to address the social question, you know, it's it's the
duty of the system and the and all the people
in it to try to reconcile these things for people.
And whereas the left typically like you, the radicals, use
these things to stoke revolution, but these kind of institutional
socialists want to reform them in a in a peaceful way,
or or just to get the results that they want
to be honest.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And in this case you could you could kind
of see it that the conservatives were starting to see
the rise of the socialists and they said, Okay, now
we have to tackle this issue, this problem that we
have in our hands, and we better give them the
tools to do it, or else will the problem will
get much worse on a lot of a lot of ways.
Because they were kind of you have to see that
they have the liberal and the conservative and suddenly this guy,
this new guy appeared in their midst and they were
we have to be a little bit careful with it.
Speaker 4: Yes, so they would want, they would want to have.
Speaker 5: They would want to appease to them in order for
so they don't grow too big.
Speaker 2: Excellent.
Speaker 4: So it's interesting because in nineteen oh five, Largo Cabierro,
Pablo Iglesias, and Raphael Garcia, who is another related fellow,
successfully ran for positions in Madrid local elections as representatives
of the Socialist Left. And this is when Largo Cabiira
is at this point thirty six years of age. Yes,
in nineteen oh five, right, so that marks the end
of his career as a plasterer and laborer. And now
he's a full time politician, which he will be until
you know, he's deposed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, until he's removed.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So he fully dedicates himself to politics. He's making fifty
pasetas and getting this from the Socialist Party of Madrid,
and this elevates him obviously in life, and he starts
getting involved in negotiating strikes and you know, working conditions
with workers in the cities, in the city. And then
he becomes the vice president of the UGT in nineteen
oh eight. And then in the following here he finds
himself in jail for the first time related to a
protest against essentially an escalation in Morocco.
Speaker 5: Yes, because there was you could say there was also
differences between the army at the time. The army is
another question that would require another article, but I will
keep it short. Is that the army needed more effective
in Morocco, they needed more staff, so they were essentially
sending the garrison from the peninsula. The problem is that
the governer song of the peninsula usually earned considerably less
than active on duty personnel in Morocco, and if they
send them, they would steal earn less than the active
on duty personnel.
Speaker 2: Destined, that's not a good plan.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: That created a lot of content animosity and created two
sides of the army, the Africanists and the the reservists,
because the Africanists essentially saw their reservices they were complacent
that sitting in their barracks and just taking their money,
while the others saw the Africanists as they got unfair
positions on for merits and unfair salaries just because they.
Speaker 4: Went to war, which is a conflict that we saw
for the following several decades.
Speaker 2: Yes, very much, excellent.
Speaker 4: So in nineteen ten, Largo Cabiro and Pablo Iglesias were
elected to Parliament with the aid of center left parties,
so interestingly that the coalition. The coalition elections are incredibly
important and Pablo Iglesias had been you know, against this previously,
but we see a lot of this moving forward in
Spanish elections.
Speaker 5: Yes, and one small thing about the in nineteen ten
is because the Conservatives were taking were racing ris into power,
especially Maura, you know, the band that was in charge
of regenerating Spain. He was the kind of the Tutor
of Calbo Sotelo politically. And it is in this time
in nineteen ten where public alias literally said that Maura
should be killed in parliament and fifteen days later Maura
would be gravely wounded by an anarchist gunman.
Speaker 3: The beginning of a pattern.
Speaker 5: Very I mean, you have to consider that during during
the parliamentary monarchy, the anarchist murdered like four presidents and
they made an attempt on the life of the king
at his wedding. Consider that. Let it sink.
Speaker 4: And this is so important for people to understand because
it contextualizes the reality of what the republic was and
the politicians who were running it in the provisional government,
you know, the unelected you know for the first several years, right,
and who they worked with and the kinds of things
that they were up to. And instead we have to
handwave and say, oh, well it was it was a
republic and you know some meanis decided to do a
fascisms and overthrow.
Speaker 5: Yeah, in a lot of sense. They just go, you know,
they evil fascists just rose against the peaceful left and
come on.
Speaker 2: It's incredible.
Speaker 4: So in nineteen eleven, and Largo Kabierro is the head
of the UGT UH, he declares a general strike in
response to essentially the the response of the government, the
liberal government against various workers' movements.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 4: They declare martial law and Largo Kabierro was rounded.
Speaker 2: Up with a bunch of other socialist leaders.
Speaker 4: And then at this point, uh, there's a consideration to
ban the UGT UH and a great many members of
the UGT abandon that that Council of the of the
I R S that that we mentioned.
Speaker 2: Previously, social reform. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So again, World War One erupts. Spain remains neutral. Uh,
the economy booms because they can sell you know, all
kinds of materials to the belligerent parties on either side
and ride this out. So the UGT surges with the
you know, the growth of industry at this time, and uh,
Largo Kabiiro's standing goes up considerably.
Speaker 3: So then we start seeing more of these.
Speaker 4: Coordinated general strikes, the next one being nineteen seventeen, which
shuts the country down for five days. It was organized
by the ps OE as well as the anarchists of
the CNT. Largo Cabiiro was a committee member and figurehead
of the movement.
Speaker 3: And you know, the the.
Speaker 4: Goal is to address you know, workers conditions, the life
of Spanish workers, the surge and the price of basic goods.
Speaker 5: Yes, because the end of World War One essentially tank
the Spanish production and exports. And you also have to
keep in mind that Spain at the time was suffering
for huge inflation because foreign investors were spec were speculating
with the Passetta at the time, and that was costing. Yeah,
it was brutal.
Speaker 4: Do we have surnames of those foreign speculators.
Speaker 5: Unfortunately, unfortunately I don't have them. But don't worry. People
that are like those speculators appear in the Civil War quite.
Speaker 2: Oftenly mmmmm interesting, Yeah, I.
Speaker 5: Did my I did my my homework.
Speaker 2: Excellent, excellent. All right.
Speaker 4: So at this point, uh, this this strike general strike
creates a crisis. Uh. You know, Largo Cabiro and his
peers who were involved in the strike leadership in particular,
as well as many other participants are rounded up tried
for treasons sentenced to life in prison. Interestingly, just a
pattern that we see all the time. The response is
so great that Largo Cabiro is released in the following
year and every you know, because these are people who
are candidates for election in the following year, and because
they he and several others win their elections and are
appointed seats in parliament. This is essentially an amnesty that's
given to them despite their previous you know, conviction.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because a thing that I didn't understood until I
studied administrative law is that if you're a politician, unless
you get caught red handed on a committing a crime,
they cannot send you to jail, at least and at
least here in Spain, and I think the same the
same this happen in this regard because they couldn't like
completely ascertain or say that they were the materials. They
could say they were involved, but not the material actors.
So that's that plausible deniability is what allowed them to
be released.
Speaker 2: Excellent, all right, So.
Speaker 4: The same year, Largo Cabierro was formally named leader of
the UGT and Speaker of the PSOE as Pablo Iglesias
moved to retire from political activities due to his health
and old age. And so interestingly, Largo Cabilero actually worked
very hard and was very serious about his beliefs.
Speaker 3: He worked with that.
Speaker 4: Institute for Social Reform, and he was very vocal about
workers organizing within the bounds of the law, working with
the institutions to achieve their goals, improve their lives, while
still saying, yes, our goal is to enact socialism. And
so the really interesting thing is that this is taking
place at the you know, against the backdrop of the
communist revolution in Russia and the spread of Bolshevik influence.
And so this success of these more radical strains reinforces
the radicalization and booize the radicals in Spain, whether anarchist, socialist, communists,
et cetera. You know, A fair bit of this, frankly,
is that a lot of resource versus were then able
to be directed by the Soviet Union into these other
other parties. That because the p PCE wasn't born yet
at this point, it.
Speaker 5: Still needed a couple more years. But the main, the
main thing is that the socialists, a sector of the socialists,
were steadily being radicalized, and that that eventually became the PC.
The Communists in the case of the anarchy is they
essentially broke apart from collaborating with the Socialists. They said, okay,
we have to kill people, we have to take buildings,
we have to burn churches, all of that. They said, okay,
we need results and we need we need them now.
But Largo Kabra at that time was still a kind
of staunch moderate, so he resisted very well along along
with others like Mbato, the advance of the radical sector
and that is what made the radicals leave the Socialists,
while the Socialists kept their core pretty pretty much untouched.
Speaker 4: And so in nineteen twenty two is when that formal
schism happened at the party level, where the Communist Party
of Spain was birthed in nineteen twenty two, primarily from
radicals who had split off from that PSOE party.
Speaker 5: The radicals of the Socialists of the pisodic where you
could say the leadership, because the PC was formed from
small communists communist parties and associations that were regional, they
were very small, and then they all concentrated in the Communist.
Speaker 2: Party great excellent, well put.
Speaker 4: And so nineteen twenty two what happens in nineteen twenty three,
the coup deetas, with General Primo de Rivera as figurehead,
basically put politics on hold in Spain. At this point,
you know, it's fair to say that the quartest was
essentially suspended and everything became top down. Calvo Sotello was
appointed Minister of Revenue and this became this is why
they hated him so much, even though, like on paper,
he was kind of a middle of the road conservative
in a lot of ways. When he was assassinated, although
they saw him as a primary enemy because of his
his political stances under the dictatorship.
Speaker 5: Even though, like it was said in the article of
Carlo Hotel, a lot of people saw him kind of
like a communist or a socialist. And it was in
because of his work in the Ministry of Revenue, because
he was trying to trying to stabilize the value of
the Pasetta, he was trying to stop the inflation, and
he was introducing reforms that a lot of people didn't like,
but he said, no, we need this, stop complaining.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's interesting because Largo Cabierro worked with the
dictatorship because again, the dictatorship reached out directly to them
to collaborate within the Ministry of Labor in the Lecio
Prieto for example, who was younger kind of new guard.
Speaker 5: H well, not exactly a new guard. He was already
a member of parliament in during the parliamentary monarchy. I
could talk about one thing that he did was absolutely
scummy back then, but it's not. It's not.
Speaker 2: It has no relation with this, Okay.
Speaker 5: The thing is that the collaboration that the is that
Cavalero deciding to collaborate with the dictatorship what almost caused
another schism in the episode because the mother the young
moderates of Prieto essentially said no, we shouldn't do it,
because doing this, we're reducing the prestige of the socialists.
We are actually selling out to these people that don't
have our best interests in mind. They just want to
draw us in, and Largo Cavale pretty much said, dictatorship
or not, if they allow us to do our work,
we will do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Classic So interestingly that you know this is another expression
of this. There was another schism within the PSOE which
took place soon Pablo Iglesias passed away in nineteen twenty five.
Largo Cabiiro becomes the formal leader of the PSOE and
accepts an appointment by Primo de Rivera to Supreme Council
of Labor, Trade and Industry, which again unites representatives of
workers and businessmen from different trades across economic sectors to
work with the government to resolve these things.
Speaker 3: And again this is seen.
Speaker 4: You know, some people love it and it gets a
lot of support because they're like, we can make real
progress here. This also causes a lot of resentment and
hatred because it's seen as collaboration with a dictatorship, all right.
Speaker 3: And so I think.
Speaker 4: What really starts happening, interestingly, is that in nineteen twenty seven,
the dictatorship declares that there's going to be a newly
constituted parliament, but it's going to be appointed representatives and
not elected. And so this really creates a huge problem
with the socialist parties who want to collaborate, and they
even though they in nineteen twenty nine come to Largo
Cabiro and say you can name five of the representatives
and then we'll choose the rest, and the socialist refuse
to participate and demanded elections. And then interestingly, you know,
Primo Rivera passes away and by nine, you know, nineteen
thirty larger. Cabiro considered his efforts to collaborate like exhausted,
but a lot of it was because of the pressure
that he was getting from within the PSOE and other
people in leadership.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Essentially, the more moderates, like their holy Unpistata, we're
telling him that, no, we can still do our job.
We can still achieve our goals within the bounds of
the law. We can still do this without taking up
arms like these lunatics that left our party did.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Do you want to explain the Pact of Son
Sebastian of nineteen thirty a little bit?
Speaker 5: Okay, The Pact of San Sebastian was essentially an agreement
between at the time, of course, there were no political parties,
but there would be the leaders of the future Republican parties,
between Athanya Diego, Martinez, Barrio, Santiago, Casaris Kiroga. They essentially
wanted to put the republic in place, but they did
they knew that by themselves, just by themselves, they didn't
have enough support, and that's why they came to the
to the Socialists to tell them, Okay, if we do this,
if we achieve the republic, if we do it with
your help, you will be part of the government. And
of course the socialists agreed because it was a very
very tempting offer in that regard, and the pact of
sense absent the fact that Largo Cabaira decided to collaborate there,
it is kind of it kind of washed away the
guilt that he had in collaborating with the dictatorship because
now he was collaborating with the public.
Speaker 3: Very well put thank you. So you know, this is where.
Speaker 4: We see this this thing that is perplexing to a
lot of people, which is that very quickly as they start,
you know, moving into this new period where the dictatorship
and the republic are art or i should say, the
dictatorship is essentially creating the conditions for the restoration of
a constitutional monarchy and the republic by the with the
reinstitution of the quartes. And there's this republican movement.
Speaker 5: And in.
Speaker 4: There's a plan for December fifteenth, nineteen thirty for an
anti monarchist armed insurrection in general strike.
Speaker 5: Originally the plan was for three days later, but the
people in charge of this insurrection, the sublivation of Hakka. Uh,
they kind of got a little bit nervous that they
were going to be found out, and they decided to
do it earlier, and that through an enormous ranch on
the plans of the of the Republicans, because now they
were very afraid that the that Berenger was going to
arrest them all too.
Speaker 4: And so the basically a bunch of people flee the
country or remain in hiding. But then the newly designated
dictator asnar Admiral, decides, let's proceed with elections. I want
to bring the temperature down. That's surely going to do
it by by appeasing them, you know, to a certain degree. Again,
this is what the Republican you know, the Republican parties are,
what became the republic that the parties that were pro
republic framed these local elections as a moratorium on the
you know this plan, yeah, the monarchy in general. And
so they they went for it essentially and declared their
you know, pretty decent performance in the elections, uh, to
basically have to say, well, obviously, because we got elected, uh,
you know that that no one wants the monarchy, and
so like the king and many members of the dictatorship
flee Spain at this point.
Speaker 5: A thing that you have to it is usually not said,
but it's very important, is that at the time the
king lost the support of the army, he had no
one behind him because with the destitution of Miguel Primo
de Rivera, the dictator, he essentially pissed off the entire army.
Primo de Riverta was a very conducorated general, very prestigious
war hero, nobleman. He was kind of the man that
all everyone in the army looked up to, and the
king essentially told him, no, I don't like what you did.
Pisce off. You have to consider okay, because when the
elections were won, an attachment of the army and the
police were sent to arrest the leaders of the Republican parties,
and the person in charge, which was San Jorgo important name,
essentially said hail the republic hailed the new president, and
they just let them go.
Speaker 4: That is incredibly interesting, you know, Pete, I don't think
that that's something that is very clearly explained, the loss
of the support because of essentially what's seen as like
an insulting or betrayal of the army. That's not really
well explained in most of the English language histories as
the cause of that.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know that I ever read I've read
that in anyone's book, even Pains.
Speaker 4: And it's so important because that's something that we see
all the time in modern politics, as people are like, no,
you have to keep voting for the guy who's like
continuously insulting you.
Speaker 5: For me, it's very surprising that not a lot of
people say that, because a thing important is that the
king had at this time in nineteen thirty he had
no one. He pissed off the army and the politicians
were against him. Incredible because in nineteen twenty one he
did a speech in which he pretty much and he verbatim,
very very brief, he said, your politicians are a bunch
of uselucidiots. You do nothing, You become obstacles for progress.
I should have power. He was a little bit drunk, I.
Speaker 4: Admit, Yeah, that's that's incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all that's a good lesson for everyone.
Speaker 5: Yeah. He with that speech long time ago. He pissed
off all the politicians and by this missing Primo de Rivera,
he pissed off the army.
Speaker 2: Incredible, it should.
Speaker 1: I mean, it really goes to show not that it
was done this way purposely, but by causing the military,
you know, forcing Bioleninism upon the military exactly what you
know what Obama and the Obama administer, well, the regime
under Obama and the regime under Biden, exactly what they
were doing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Absolutely incredible, That's that's that's wonderful. I'm so glad. I'm
so glad that we're doing this. This is great. So
the the period of the Republic, I feel like we've
talked about it a lot, and I kind of want
to skim some of the details at this point in time.
Speaker 3: But but I.
Speaker 4: Think what the real important takeaways here, for like Largo Cabrieiro,
he becomes an integral part of the provisional government. Again,
this isn't a elected government that there were these local elections,
but the provisional government is just put together by this
socialist coalition by this quote unquote Republican coalition. Largo Cabrierro
is at the helm of the Ministry of Labor. He
presents numerous labor reforms, such as the forty hour work week,
the Law of contracts, which I don't know a ton about,
and then the creation of the mixed juries which would
be basically these boards that would solve the speeds between
workers and business owners.
Speaker 2: What's the law of contracts more.
Speaker 5: Love contracts is essentially that if you start a work
relationship with someone, meaning that you get hired by someone,
that person has to formalize that working relationship through a
written document that is a contract, in order to establish
that yes, you work for them, and that they cannot
essentially what is called in Spain and an undue firing,
that he can dismiss you just like that, because by
that contract you essentially have a certain set of privilege,
just that you can demand that person like for example,
you have been working for five years, if your contract
is terminated, you can get how much was it was
you get You get twenty days of wage for every
year you have worked as compensation for firing.
Speaker 4: So codified severance packages.
Speaker 5: Yeah, pretty much. It's kind of that. It's both to
ensure things for the worker and the for the employer.
Speaker 4: Okay, that makes sense. Interesting, Okay, So essentially what happens though,
is that you know, this is stuff that seems fairly
moderate to us, but it's also they were very you know,
the characterization is that they were blatantly biased in favor
of workers and not necessarily as balanced as they could be,
you know, according to certain business interests. So that said,
Largo Cabierro starts wanting to institute more radical socialist policies,
and the Republic is in this position as well. In general,
they you know, they have the religious laws, they have
their new constitution, which is really interesting in that, you know,
there are constraints upon the government and the new constitution.
There's also like real assertions of power that the state
had never had previously in the same constitution. So like
no one's happy essentially.
Speaker 5: And also you have to keep in mind that there
are there are two very important laws that were enacted
in this period in thirty one, and one of them,
much later would become very effective. They say it's a
very effective tool of oppression of the Franco regime or whatever,
and that it has a very very funny name. For me,
it's elated the Vago simalaiantes or a law of Vagrants
and hood looms, which essentially started the construction of prison
camps in Spain, by the way, but by nineteen thirty
two important and the other law was the Law of
Citizen Protection. That law was enacted through most of the
government in thirty six. And to summarize it in brief,
extremely brief, it's a lot that allows the government to
suspend its constitution.
Speaker 4: Very important because the that that essentially it's that's essentially
the state of emergency that they're in, uh that this
government is in, so that they can essentially favor the
oppression of the right, for example, and say that it's
legally justifiable, so that this is the the state that
you know, it's codified, that they're essentially allowed to ignore
their own constitution, you know. Is the is the characterization
that people make.
Speaker 5: They only they only they didn't do it only for
that because in sure in April there would be local
elections also in Spain. And the thing is that Athaniel
which was the president then center left by the way,
he knew that if the elections run its course legally,
the left would most likely loose, and so he enacted
this law to suspend the elections indefinitely.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 4: And then when they had the thirty three you know,
thirty three slash thirty four period, say that the Catholic
right wing coalition wins, but the Republic essentially doesn't allow
them to form a government.
Speaker 5: That is because rose Maria Hill Groblez. He was called
an accidentalist. His main objective, his main political objective was
to destroy the Republic, and he almost achieved it if
it wasn't for obviously all the people that prevented him.
But the thing is that he was allowed. Theda was
allowed into the government if no one from THEDA was
part of the government, yes, no ministries and also no president.
That is why the president was Alexandro Lea Rooks, which
was a center right politician more or less he supported
the right wing causes. The thing is that in August
of thirty four was when Theda said, Okay, we have
done a good a good deal of things, but there's
a government crisis and now if you want our support,
you have to allow us to take ministries. And that
is that was something that a lot of people really
really really didn't like, as you well know.
Speaker 4: And the most amusing thing is that they gave them
the military.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Mari Rogles, the was the defense minister, which was
pretty amusing.
Speaker 4: Which is essentially what allowed the military conspiracy, as well
as the to a degree, the organization of the Carlist
recutees in particular, as well as the thalong Hey training
and militarization and equipment gathering. Although the financing for that
came from the party's own coffers, that wasn't coming from
the military, but it did.
Speaker 2: It did reduce a.
Speaker 4: Certain level of oversight that they would have gotten from
Republican officials who still nonetheless tried their best to control
the military as much as possible, well particularly identifying who
was a Republican and who was the thing.
Speaker 5: The thing is that there was, ever since the monarchy,
politicians in Spain had this huge interest on making the
military submit to their authority, and obviously the military didn't
like that. The thing is that during the republic they
tried it even harder, and that pissed off a lot
of old military, old people in the military officers especially.
And the thing, like you said in the thing that
the fact that Hill Roberts was a Minister of War
allowed a lot of things to happen during his rule. Still,
the main bulk of the of the conspiracy was in
thirty six, just just seven months. Seven months. Yeah, but
a lot of work was done during this time. And
it is also during this time when in thirty four,
after the after the October Revolution is put down, that
the UM the Military Spanol or Spanish Military Union is born,
which is a right wing military association within the army.
They are more or less underground and there their first
their first publication is really amazing. I read parts of it.
I couldn't find the the full text, but it was
impassionate to say the least. And shortly after left wing
Military Union is also born to counteract. Yes, silent war
is brewing within the within the army, and that is
why the new courts of the army, like the Air Force,
they remained mainly loyal to the Republic while the army
sublevated almost completely.
Speaker 4: And also so, not only is this military conspiracy taking
place and in the right wing parties, as I pointed out,
the the among the Carlists and the Phalanghey on the left,
the CNT and the and their FAI subdivision in particular,
are all in on on getting.
Speaker 3: Ready for revolution.
Speaker 4: Largo Caveiro and uh you know other socialists and communists
also began to do the same thing. They started sending
some of their trusted people to the to the Soviet
Union training the military, a.
Speaker 5: Lot of them, a lot of them mainly from the PC,
but also from the Socialists and the CNT. For example,
Juane Grin, which was a Communist, he went to Russia
and he became the main joint between the Socialists and
the Russian agents in Spain. Also Enrique Lister who received
military training in Moscow and he also worked in the
construction of Moscow subway through because he was a stone cutter,
but he received training and also a political like political
lessons in in Moscow. A lot a lot of the
Spanish that went there were mainly from the political branch,
and they learned Russian so they could serve later as
as a liaison to communicate with Russian agents in Spain.
Speaker 4: Which is incredibly important and and it illustrates how the
Soviet Union was able to essentially take over the the
Republic so quickly when when the civil war actually began
and essentially owned the army almost out of the gate,
like within what a month and a half mmmm ish
two three months more like, very very dominant. They essentially
got to rebrand it and then when the Soviet supplies
were coming in and all of a sudden they have
these new uniforms with red rank insignia and red stars
and comments stars.
Speaker 5: And because because remember that the Republic after the sublivation
took place, they had the marvelous idea of this band
in the army.
Speaker 4: Yes that's right, and be militias only.
Speaker 5: And the problem is that, because Athaya tells it in
a book, is that absolutely everyone in Spain that remained
loyal to the Republic wanted to do politics. They wanted
to do the revolution. They wanted to do absolutely everything
except making an army.
Speaker 2: Incredible.
Speaker 5: That is why the communists took such a preponderant role
in the Republic, because they were the main force that
built the army.
Speaker 4: Incredible. It's like it's like drinking your own kool aid?
Is the is the American term a reference to Jim
Joon Ones and their suicide cult.
Speaker 5: I mean, I think so. I think in England they
say to hoist your own pitard or something.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes they do.
Speaker 3: We we use that as well.
Speaker 4: H