Speaker 1: Oh hey, it's that guy down the hall who wears
Speaker 1: fanny packs, and now you want to wear a fanny pack.
Speaker 1: But if he notices, it'll be weird, but maybe he'll
Speaker 1: be flattered. Ali Ward here with a sixty four bit
Speaker 1: version of the ninth episode of Smologies. What is Smologies?
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you asked. So we took full ologies
Speaker 1: episodes and then we sliced them and diced them up
Speaker 1: to make these really bite sized, classroom friendly edits of
Speaker 1: our deep dive classics. So if you have not listened
Speaker 1: to the original full length episode of Litology and you
Speaker 1: don't mind some not safe for school details and lots
Speaker 1: of swearing, go back listen to that version. The link
Speaker 1: is in the show notes. But if you only have
Speaker 1: about twenty minutes, or you need a g rated version
Speaker 1: that's suitable for all ages, you're in the right place.
Speaker 1: Let the games begin, Okay. In this episode, we sit
Speaker 1: down with lotologist and game designer Speaker and someone I
Speaker 1: was just talking about and quoting her in last week's
Speaker 1: full length Neuropathology episode about concussion therapy. So she has
Speaker 1: done two wildly popular time talks, written two New York
Speaker 1: Times best selling books, including one called Reality Is Broken.
Speaker 1: She also wrote the twenty fifteen release Super Better, and
Speaker 1: she has a new book coming out March twenty second,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two. I just asked her about it today.
Speaker 1: It's called Imaginable. It's all about how we can play
Speaker 1: games and use our imagination to predict otherwise hard to
Speaker 1: predict futures. She earned her PhD from the University of
Speaker 1: California at Berkeley in performance studies, where she went on
Speaker 1: to teach game design and game theory. And another little
Speaker 1: fun fact, she was named one of the twenty most
Speaker 1: Inspiring Women of the World by Oprah. Just fun facts,
Speaker 1: but she's known the best as the inventor and the
Speaker 1: co founder of Super Better, which is a game that's
Speaker 1: helped more than a million people tackle actual, real life
Speaker 1: health problems. And if that isn't enough, she also teaches
Speaker 1: at Stanford University. She's the director of Game Research and
Speaker 1: Development at the Institute for Their Future. So a lodologist,
Speaker 1: she is one. And litology is a real word. I
Speaker 1: swear I looked it up. It means the study of games.
Speaker 1: It comes from the Latin word lu dare to play,
Speaker 1: so play. Yeah, the word was coined sometime around the
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, so it didn't mean video games back then
Speaker 1: because time machines are not a thing. But nowadays it
Speaker 1: can encompass all kinds of gameplay, from sports to card
Speaker 1: games and of course yes, video games. So in this
Speaker 1: small smologies, condensed clean episode, we cover how video games
Speaker 1: can help improve brain function and build tenacity. We talk
Speaker 1: about gamifying your life, how online communities kind of translate
Speaker 1: to relationships in real life, and how different games have
Speaker 1: different effects on the brain. Also, how much is too
Speaker 1: much gameplay? I know we all want to know, and
Speaker 1: also essentially video games good or bad. So let's presstart
Speaker 1: on a conversation that will one up our brains and
Speaker 1: unlock some achievements with litterrologist and game designer doctor Jane
Speaker 1: mcgonagaal she her.
Speaker 2: Code knowledge.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me kind of how games change the
Speaker 1: way we think or what happens in the brain. What
Speaker 1: happens is dopamine and serotonin, like what's going on in
Speaker 1: that brainy soup?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, there's like so much I want people to
Speaker 2: know about this, and they're two big pieces, and so
Speaker 2: I want to tell both of them because not everybody
Speaker 2: like benefits from playing video game. It takes them out
Speaker 2: of reality, it takes them out of their social relations
Speaker 2: and their goals. So I want to preface what I'm gonna
Speaker 2: say by this doesn't naturally happen for all people like
Speaker 2: the good things, and there are ways that you can
Speaker 2: if you don't have a good relationship with gaming, that
Speaker 2: you can change it so that you're more likely to
Speaker 2: get the benefit. So I just want to preface all
Speaker 2: this by saying, it's not like games are some magic
Speaker 2: pill that you play them and good things happen to you.
Speaker 2: It really depends on how you play and why you
Speaker 2: play that good things can happen for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Just allow me to reiterate that disclaimer.
Speaker 2: Games are not a magic pill, and not everybody benefits
Speaker 2: from video games, and however they can really help in
Speaker 2: the following ways. So the signature thing that I would
Speaker 2: say as probably the person who has studied I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't think there's ever been a scientific paper written
Speaker 2: about video games that have not read thousands of them.
Speaker 2: I am on it. I would say this sort of
Speaker 2: signature finding has to do with self efficacy. So self
Speaker 2: effogacy is the belief that you have the ability to
Speaker 2: take actions that can help you achieve your goals right,
Speaker 2: and so you have skills, you have resources, you have
Speaker 2: pathways forward. And different people have different kinds of self effogacy.
Speaker 2: Like I might have a lot of self efficacy as
Speaker 2: a cook in the kitchen, but maybe not in my
Speaker 2: fashion sense of what should I wear today. I'm just
Speaker 2: not feeling like I have a lot of talent in
Speaker 2: that area. Different people have self efficacy in different areas,
Speaker 2: but if you have the experience of gaining self efficacy
Speaker 2: in new areas, it can develop a kind of mindset
Speaker 2: that does translate. So if you are often doing things
Speaker 2: that you're bad at and then stay with it and
Speaker 2: get better, and suddenly you have new skills and you
Speaker 2: acquire new resources and you have achieved new goals and milestones,
Speaker 2: your brain gets better at looking at a difficult skill
Speaker 2: or task and saying, let me try it, because I
Speaker 2: have a great and long history of getting better at
Speaker 2: things that I'm bad at. And that's what gaming does
Speaker 2: for most people. And the more different games you play,
Speaker 2: the more your brain gets used to being frustrated, hanging
Speaker 2: in there, feeling optimistic in the face of setbacks and
Speaker 2: that is the one generalizable positive impact of games that
Speaker 2: we see. No matter what kind of game you play, sport, challenging,
Speaker 2: cooperative board game, you're playing bridge, you're playing a video game.
Speaker 2: If we can help you get comfortable with not being
Speaker 2: good at something, trying using your skills and ability to
Speaker 2: get better at it, and then you do, in fact
Speaker 2: get better, that that can translate to the rest of
Speaker 2: your life.
Speaker 1: So games help us get comfy with being a total
Speaker 1: newbie at something. So when we try new things, whether
Speaker 1: it's a video game or something in the three dimensional realm,
Speaker 1: we're accustomed to being really frustrated at first and being like,
Speaker 1: h I hate this, I'm so bad at it. Oh wait,
Speaker 1: and then we gradually get better and better with time
Speaker 1: and effort, and we're like, oh, I can apply this
Speaker 1: to my life. So to receive the full benefit of that.
Speaker 2: The doc says, make sure you're always playing different games,
Speaker 2: like the person who always plays mind Sweeper or Solitaire
Speaker 2: like they've been playing it for thirty years not not
Speaker 2: having this benefit. But when you look at the research literature,
Speaker 2: the people who really benefit from this experience are people
Speaker 2: who feel like games are real in a way, like
Speaker 2: they don't see them as a scapist. They don't play
Speaker 2: games to ignore their problems or like shove down negative
Speaker 2: feelings or get away from people who are annoying them.
Speaker 2: Those people tend to not benefit because they see games
Speaker 2: as separate from reality, so they don't bring the same
Speaker 2: mindset to real life. And those are the type of
Speaker 2: players who go on to be like you would call
Speaker 2: it addicted. It's not quite an addiction, but it's a
Speaker 2: kind of compulsive gameplay where they play more than it's
Speaker 2: good for them.
Speaker 1: Is there a difference in games where you're playing against
Speaker 1: a computer versus you are in a community and your
Speaker 1: friends are on a headset and you're all yelling at
Speaker 1: each other trying to, like, you know, kill it the
Speaker 1: same elf.
Speaker 2: Huge difference. And it's not that one is better or worse.
Speaker 2: They're they're good for different things. Right, So, Like, if
Speaker 2: you're dealing with anxiety or depression, a single player game
Speaker 2: is actually really good it because you can pull out
Speaker 2: your phone and play it for a few minutes. Because
Speaker 2: one of the benefits of games is that it can
Speaker 2: stop rumination. Right, So if you're anxious, you're anxious because
Speaker 2: you're imagining things that could go wrong right, and it
Speaker 2: requires it requires your brain to be actively focused on
Speaker 2: visualizing things that scare you. So one of the best
Speaker 2: treatments for anxiety in the moment is to just stop
Speaker 2: the ruminations, to make a conscious decision not to spend
Speaker 2: time and energy on these thoughts. And so a game
Speaker 2: on your phone. It could be like a mini golf game,
Speaker 2: it could be you know, candy Crush, it could be
Speaker 2: Words with Friends. Anything that you can play by yourself
Speaker 2: is fine because it stops the thoughts. Same with depression.
Speaker 2: People depression ruminate on very negative thoughts about themselves or
Speaker 2: their circumstances.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the new word game Wordle, created by Josh
Speaker 1: Wordle as a present for his word game obsessed partner.
Speaker 1: Or maybe, like for my husband Jared, it's League of
Speaker 1: Legends with his brothers and friends. Either way, it's nice
Speaker 1: to interrupt destructive thought patterns with a good old fashioned.
Speaker 2: Game, and if you can stop that flow of thought,
Speaker 2: it's an effective treatment. So single player games are great
Speaker 2: and they are really helpful for things like anxiety, depression,
Speaker 2: and pain, but social games are phenomenal for other things.
Speaker 2: The quality of positive emotions they create, the trust that
Speaker 2: they build. It's interesting you mentioned League of Legends. There's
Speaker 2: been great research showing that people who play League of
Speaker 2: Legends regularly have a stronger social support network than just
Speaker 2: about any other gamer, meaning there are more people in
Speaker 2: their lives who will be there for them if they
Speaker 2: need advice, if they need help in reality, like help
Speaker 2: moving or assistance physical assistance. People play League of Legends
Speaker 2: very powerful social support system.
Speaker 1: So each type of gaming experience has its benefits, she says,
Speaker 1: and social games see to lead to a bigger sense
Speaker 1: of community and family that can transfer to real life.
Speaker 1: But can you play too many video games? And is
Speaker 1: there a connection between playing video games and those shiny, flickering,
Speaker 1: jingling slot machines? Essentially, is gaming like gambling to the brain?
Speaker 1: They are only a few letters off after all?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Ali, there's so much to say here.
Speaker 2: Let me start. Let me start with the gambling question,
Speaker 2: because this, I think people, If people can understand this,
Speaker 2: it will alleviate a lot of anxiety around video gaming
Speaker 2: versus casino gaming. The thing that happens in your brain
Speaker 2: where you feel like something good could happen as a
Speaker 2: result of your actions. It is identical in gambling. And
Speaker 2: video gaming. Right the part of your brain that says
Speaker 2: try again, try again, you might win, Go ahead, go
Speaker 2: for it, that keeps you at that slot machine, or
Speaker 2: you just need to play another hand in gambling or
Speaker 2: make another be yes, that is identical to what's happening
Speaker 2: in video gaming. But what happens in video gaming is
Speaker 2: you actually get better at skills, and you acquire more resources,
Speaker 2: and you gain more allies who can teach you and
Speaker 2: help you and show you the way. And as opposed
Speaker 2: to luck based gambling where you're just you know, pulling
Speaker 2: the slot lever or scratching off a lottery ticket, you
Speaker 2: can actually get better and improve your chances of winning
Speaker 2: in video gaming. So it is a completely different psychological experience,
Speaker 2: a different neurological experience, because it is not delusional to
Speaker 2: stay engaged.
Speaker 1: Oki dok so before the lightning round of questions from
Speaker 1: patrons who sign up at Patreon dot com. Sooshologies it's
Speaker 1: a buck month, just saying each week a portion of
Speaker 1: the ad revenue goes to a cause of theologists choosing
Speaker 1: and Jane loves Ablegamers dot org, which in their words,
Speaker 1: gives people with disabilities custom gaming setups, including modified control
Speaker 1: and special assistive technology like devices that let you play
Speaker 1: with your eyes so they can have fun with their
Speaker 1: friends and family. So a donation went to Ablegamers dot org,
Speaker 1: who are doing awesome stuff. So thank you Jane for
Speaker 1: telling us about them. So a few words from sponsors
Speaker 1: who make that donation a reality. Okay, back to your
Speaker 1: Patreon questions, which are good ones. One Patreon question I
Speaker 1: got a ton from Mark Williams, and from David Baffa
Speaker 1: and from Sasha kd. They all asked about gamification. And
Speaker 1: I know that I don't think that you love the words,
Speaker 1: but is the gamification of behavior a useful technique? Sasha
Speaker 1: K wants to know how do you feel about gamification
Speaker 1: of everything?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you are awesome Ali for knowing that. I do
Speaker 2: not use a word gamification to describe my own work
Speaker 2: because just historically it's been used not in ways that
Speaker 2: authentically empower or bring the best out of the people
Speaker 2: who are being gamified. So my philosophy is, if you
Speaker 2: are connecting with somebody's deeply held values, what do they
Speaker 2: want more in their life? They want to be a
Speaker 2: better parent, they want to learn something new every day,
Speaker 2: they want to be braver and get out in the
Speaker 2: world more, be more physically active. You know, whatever it
Speaker 2: is that they authentically want to do that they choose
Speaker 2: for themselves. If you can put a quest system or
Speaker 2: a leveling up system, or a kind of cooperation opportunity
Speaker 2: where they are multipliers, if you and your friends are
Speaker 2: doing it together, you can add some game design elements
Speaker 2: that help people do more of what they want. And
Speaker 2: if they do it, they're going to experience an upper
Speaker 2: spiral of skill and ability so they can maintain it
Speaker 2: outside of the game. That's an ideal situation for gamification.
Speaker 1: So basically, if it helps you achieve your goals from
Speaker 1: Uno to Magic, the Gathering to Tarkov, then doctor Jane
Speaker 1: fully supports it. But what about the classic of all classics,
Speaker 1: the one we all know and love, the Falling Block
Speaker 1: Majesty of Tetris? And then a bunch of people Colin, Matthew,
Speaker 1: Carla Kennedy, Helen Amy Connor all asked about dreams. Why
Speaker 1: do I dream about Tetris? After playing Tetris for a
Speaker 1: long time? Two people in particular, Colin and Amy, both said,
Speaker 1: I love Tetris, but if I play it too long,
Speaker 1: I start thinking about it all the time, and when
Speaker 1: I close my eyes, I literally see little Tetramino swollic.
Speaker 1: Why does this happen?
Speaker 2: This is the greatest question, because the other public service
Speaker 2: announcement I always like to do about video games actually
Speaker 2: has to do with Tetris and how it takes over
Speaker 2: your mind. Because there have been three randomized control studies
Speaker 2: and clinical trials now, including one in the field with
Speaker 2: people who experienced traumatic events, that show that the way
Speaker 2: that Tetris takes over your brain so that you are
Speaker 2: flashing back to it, it can prevent flashbacks associated with
Speaker 2: post traumatic stress disorder. And there's actually increasing usage of
Speaker 2: Tetris within twenty four hour of a traumatic event that
Speaker 2: if you play Tetris within twenty four hours and before
Speaker 2: you go to sleep, that your brain is more likely
Speaker 2: to flash back on Tetris and the event, which reduces
Speaker 2: the rate of traumatic flashbacks in the future. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it happens because Tetris is so visually compelling and requires
Speaker 2: so much visual attention that your brain essentially diverts resources
Speaker 2: from everything else, and it works so hard on this
Speaker 2: problem that when you walk away from it, your brain
Speaker 2: is continuing to work on it. If you had a
Speaker 2: really bad day and you don't want to sit there
Speaker 2: thinking about it, or like stay up all night thinking
Speaker 2: about it. You can use tetris to block your brain
Speaker 2: from flashing back on an experience that you don't want
Speaker 2: to remember. You use the power of tetris to flash
Speaker 2: back on tetris.
Speaker 1: That's right, tetris saving you from stressful replays in your brain.
Speaker 1: You heard it here first, But what about just strapping
Speaker 1: a game console and a screen to your actual face?
Speaker 1: Is that too much? I got a ton of questions
Speaker 1: about VR. Yeah, like Justin So, Dion Dabbelow, Kirana Bergstrom,
Speaker 1: and Janelle York all wanted to know what video game
Speaker 1: advances should we look forward to, Like how do you
Speaker 1: see the industry developing? And how does VR and AR
Speaker 1: change game design? Like virtual reality and augmented.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh so many things. Okay, I'm going to focus
Speaker 2: on a few things. One advance that we are going
Speaker 2: to see in gaming in general as a result of
Speaker 2: virtual reality, I believe, is that gaming will become a
Speaker 2: socially safer and more pleasant space for people who have
Speaker 2: historically experienced more harassment, So for women, people who are
Speaker 2: identified as queer. There can be a lot of harassment
Speaker 2: in social gaming, and that's just a fact. I spent
Speaker 2: a lot of time talking to VR developed and I
Speaker 2: know that all of the major VR developers are very
Speaker 2: much focused on not repeating the mistakes of the past
Speaker 2: of both social media and video gaming. They do not
Speaker 2: want VR to be a space where anybody can come
Speaker 2: up to you and tell you what they think, anybody
Speaker 2: can come up to you and have an interaction with you.
Speaker 2: They want to invent new kinds of technologies for consent,
Speaker 2: for who can see you, who can touch you, who
Speaker 2: can talk to you. I'm very optimistic that VR is
Speaker 2: going to thoughtfully not replicate the kind of toxic environments
Speaker 2: that we've seen in social media and video gaming in
Speaker 2: the past. That's one thing. Yeah. Another thing that I'm
Speaker 2: excited about in VR is VR esports. I mean, esports
Speaker 2: is obviously becoming really popular and accepted. I mean, there
Speaker 2: are college scholarships, there's college leagues, there's more people watching
Speaker 2: online world chamn Bean ships for the Biggest League of
Speaker 2: Legends finals, then watched Major League Baseball World Series, watched
Speaker 2: the NHL.
Speaker 1: Okay quick aside, just to fact check this, Let's look
Speaker 1: at the most watched World Series in recent years. Twenty sixteen,
Speaker 1: Chicago Cubs are in the World Series for the first
Speaker 1: time since nineteen oh seven. This is a big deal.
Speaker 1: Game seven, Who's Gonna win? The viewership is about triple
Speaker 1: what it usually is for a World Series, with forty
Speaker 1: million people watching. The Chicago Cubs take the victory forty million.
Speaker 1: Oh but last year the number of people watching the
Speaker 1: League of Legends finals was one hundred million. Well that's
Speaker 1: an exaggeration. It was ninety nine point six million. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a lot.
Speaker 2: Sorry Cubs, it's very popular. But I'm interested in esports
Speaker 2: and VR because the esports and VR are often very physical.
Speaker 2: If you look at images or videos of them online,
Speaker 2: you see people leaping and crawling, and there's a real
Speaker 2: blend of physical sport, but also all the things that
Speaker 2: require you to be good in video games and esports,
Speaker 2: the kind of fast reflexes and visual attention and resource
Speaker 2: management that are the kind of strategic decision making that
Speaker 2: we see in traditional video games in esports, so I'm
Speaker 2: excited for VR esports also as a way to have
Speaker 2: both real physical and beautiful gameplay alongside traditional esports skills.
Speaker 1: So in the future, we could see sports and esports
Speaker 1: come together and possibly put us in some form of
Speaker 1: the oasis from Ready Player one. And I know people
Speaker 1: who use their Oculus Quest headsets to work out via
Speaker 1: Beat Saber and other apps, which kind of feels like
Speaker 1: going to the gym in Star Trek's holiday in the
Speaker 1: best way. But is there a world where maybe that's
Speaker 1: a little too immersive? It's just a little much. Can
Speaker 1: you spend too much time playing video games? My nephew
Speaker 1: Mason is nine, and I just got back from the
Speaker 1: holidays with him, and he and his parents have a
Speaker 1: difference of opinion on this issue, as you can imagine.
Speaker 1: Let's see Matt Soalgato, Carla Hickenlooper, Rodi Akaria, Carla Kennedy
Speaker 1: and a few other people asked about addiction. When should
Speaker 1: kids start playing video games? And how much is too much?
Speaker 2: Okay, so you cannot go wrong if you are playing
Speaker 2: the game with them. That's that's the first and most
Speaker 2: important rule. There's no too soon if you are playing
Speaker 2: with them and talking to them about it, and for
Speaker 2: as long as you can continue this, the better. So
Speaker 2: even if it's a single player game, you know somebody
Speaker 2: they're building something in Minecraft. You are sitting right there,
Speaker 2: You're like, what are you doing? How did you know
Speaker 2: to do that? How did you figure that out?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Ah, looks really hard? What's going on? Talk to your kids,
Speaker 2: let them express their problem solving process, what's motivating them
Speaker 2: about the game. Why is this fun? You want to
Speaker 2: just draw out as much as you can, because it
Speaker 2: allows kids to really reflect on how they learn, what
Speaker 2: they're getting better at, how they are capable of solving
Speaker 2: difficult problems, and staying engage with hard challenges. Games are
Speaker 2: just the most incredible environment for you to validate your
Speaker 2: kids' skills and abilities as a learner, as a creative person,
Speaker 2: as a problem solver. And the other thing about in
Speaker 2: terms of timing, I did help do a meta analysis
Speaker 2: of all the studies that have looked at kids and
Speaker 2: adults how much is too much? And I will say
Speaker 2: that there have never been studies showing ill effects when
Speaker 2: people are playing less than twenty hours a week. You
Speaker 2: do see impacts on school performance, on social relationships with
Speaker 2: people who don't play games, on physical health and well
Speaker 2: being over twenty hours per week, So that's just another
Speaker 2: kind of safe zone. And in cases of serious pathological gameplay.
Speaker 2: When people are saying up all night, they're not doing
Speaker 2: the school work. I'm not looking for a job. I
Speaker 2: always say, get it to twenty hours or less, do
Speaker 2: not take the game away. Okay, so there's a.
Speaker 1: Sweet spot of twenty hours or less a week, but
Speaker 1: your mileage may vary. And really just make sure that
Speaker 1: you're prioritizing the big things sleep, rest, family and friends, time,
Speaker 1: your schoolwork, your big goals, and recognize when you're relaxing
Speaker 1: and when you're escaping because life maybe feels too painful.
Speaker 1: Speaking of pain, a lot of us wanted to know
Speaker 1: is there a connection between video games with violent content
Speaker 1: and three dimensional real life bad behavior? If you play
Speaker 1: video games stealing cars, are you going to go around
Speaker 1: and steal much cars? You're trained to do it now.
Speaker 1: I don't know about you specifically, but you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. And so a bunch of people asked about
Speaker 1: violence and video games, Emily Brabish and Elizabeth Janelle York,
Speaker 1: Lauren Murray McKay, Sarah Jane James, Amber Cooper, and then
Speaker 1: they all kind of ask do violent video games cause
Speaker 1: more violence?
Speaker 2: Look, statistically, we know that ninety six percent of men
Speaker 2: under twenty one play violent video games. And I prefer
Speaker 2: to use the term like games with violent content, because
Speaker 2: obviously the most violent game is like football, real football,
Speaker 2: where you are hitting people and causing brain injuries. That
Speaker 2: is an actually violent game. Video games are not actually violent.
Speaker 2: So let's say games with violent content or aggressive themes.
Speaker 2: Everybody plays them. And if you look at the data,
Speaker 2: violent crime has gone down and down and down exactly
Speaker 2: as engagement with violent themed games has gone up and up.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, it's ridiculous. If there were any
Speaker 2: any correlation, let alone causation, you would not see this trend.
Speaker 2: This is like anybody who saidies this, well, that's the
Speaker 2: first thing they will say is over the past thirty years,
Speaker 2: violence crime goes down, particularly in this demographic, this male demographic.
Speaker 2: Violent themed gameplay is going up. It's just not there's
Speaker 2: no data to suggest that there is any kind of correlation,
Speaker 2: let alone causation. However, that said two things. There are
Speaker 2: certain types of gameplay that can turn you into a jerk.
Speaker 2: Not a violent person, but somebody who has less empathy
Speaker 2: for people they perceive is weaker than them, and who
Speaker 2: are kind of moodier and may yell at you or
Speaker 2: be grumpy to you, and you're just like, ough, why
Speaker 2: are you so obnoxious or such a jerk? That kind
Speaker 2: of gameplay is when you play in these very aggressive
Speaker 2: themed games against strangers who you don't know and will
Speaker 2: never see in person. We tend to dehumanize those opponents.
Speaker 2: We don't know who they are, so we're playing anonymously online,
Speaker 2: we're trying to beat them. We build up in our
Speaker 2: mind that there's like horrible people and we hate them
Speaker 2: and we feel antagonistic towards them, and those emotions that
Speaker 2: we build up, the frustration, the anger, the hatred. It's
Speaker 2: not like you just walk away from the game and
Speaker 2: they evaporate. Can linger. A lot of people don't want
Speaker 2: to simulate violence because we don't enjoy it, and that's
Speaker 2: a natural feeling, and it's why a lot of people
Speaker 2: are turned off by video game culture. It's not abnormal
Speaker 2: to not enjoy violence, like that's also a normal thing.
Speaker 2: If you're turned off by it, that's okay. And you
Speaker 2: don't have to play violent video games, or if you
Speaker 2: play them, you don't have to necessarily engage in the
Speaker 2: violent aspects of them.
Speaker 1: Okay, got it? So video games with violent content won't
Speaker 1: necessarily make you a violent person, but playing certain types
Speaker 1: of games can make you more of a jerk when
Speaker 1: you're not playing, maybe even Monopoly, which just a quick
Speaker 1: aside I have to tell you this. It was actually
Speaker 1: the early nineteen hundred's brainchild of an anti capitalist activist
Speaker 1: and a comedian and a writer and an unmarried woman
Speaker 1: by the name of Elizabeth Maggie, and she created Monopoly.
Speaker 1: It was then called the Landlord's Game as a cautionary
Speaker 1: tale and in her old timing words, let the children
Speaker 1: see clearly the gross injustice of our present land system,
Speaker 1: and when they grow up, the evil will be remedied. Well,
Speaker 1: we had such high hopes, Lizzie, but perhaps the irony
Speaker 1: was a little too lost on us, because she was
Speaker 1: at a party playing it with her friends, and then
Speaker 1: some jabbroni liked it and ripped her off. He paid
Speaker 1: her five hundred bucks for the idea, and then he
Speaker 1: made millions of dollars distorting its message, because capitalism the
Speaker 1: very thing she was trying to ward us about anyway.
Speaker 1: So that's why you feel bad when you play Monopoly
Speaker 1: and you watch your family become destitute while you own
Speaker 1: like four railroads. Anyway, let's look on the brighter side
Speaker 1: of gaming, shall we? After nearly twenty years in this industry,
Speaker 1: in this field, what is the shiniest light when it
Speaker 1: comes to litology? What is your favorite thing about video
Speaker 1: games or about what you do?
Speaker 2: I mean, my favorite thing is I love with discovering
Speaker 2: a new game with my hud. It's been still We've
Speaker 2: been together since two thousand, so almost twenty years now,
Speaker 2: and one of the first things we did together was
Speaker 2: play an adventure game called grim Fandango one players Lucas
Speaker 2: Art's BROWSERAIS game you like explore world together and we
Speaker 2: spent a few weeks playing it together. And I still like.
Speaker 2: I love when a new game comes out, whether it's
Speaker 2: Gone Home Game or Fortnite, we can sit and experience
Speaker 2: it together and we have the sort of memorable moments
Speaker 2: in our history, like when we found Portal, when we
Speaker 2: found Braid, when we found World of Warcraft. I really
Speaker 2: love developing a skill with him together and having that
Speaker 2: novelty and that exploration and curiosity. There's so many positive
Speaker 2: emotions that we feel when we play, and when you
Speaker 2: can feel them with someone you love, it's really powerful.
Speaker 1: WHOA wow, So ask smart people playful questions because there's
Speaker 1: a lot more to video games than any of us
Speaker 1: previously thought. So we learned that they can change the
Speaker 1: way we think. They can build confident and resilience, They
Speaker 1: can build communities online that translate to communities in real life.
Speaker 1: We also learned Tetris requires a ton of mental focus
Speaker 1: and a bunch of different games is better for our
Speaker 1: brains than just playing one game over and over, and
Speaker 1: also that maybe we should try and limit our time
Speaker 1: playing video games to twenty hours or less a week,
Speaker 1: depending on if you're meeting your top priorities in life
Speaker 1: and you know, self care things like that. So to
Speaker 1: find out more about doctor Jane McGonagall, you can go
Speaker 1: to janemcgonagall dot com. It's linked in the show notes.
Speaker 1: She's also avante game on Twitter. I'll link all of
Speaker 1: this in the show notes, including linked to the Nonprofitablegamers
Speaker 1: dot org, and we're finding the sponsors of the show
Speaker 1: in case you're interested in them. And Jane's books include
Speaker 1: her upcoming March twenty second release Imaginable, How to See
Speaker 1: the Future Coming and feel ready for anything, even things
Speaker 1: that seem impossible today, and also her twenty fifteen bestsellers
Speaker 1: super Better. Those are all linked on my website. You
Speaker 1: can find out more at alleyboard dot com slash Somologies.
Speaker 1: You can find more Somologies episodes there in case you
Speaker 1: are listening and you want to binge on some. Thank
Speaker 1: you to doctor Jane McGonagall and thank you to any
Speaker 1: new Smologites. New episodes are out about every two weeks
Speaker 1: and links to the full litology episode. For grown ups
Speaker 1: or children who don't mind swearing, there is much more
Speaker 1: detail and again lots of curse words. Those are available
Speaker 1: on alleyboard dot com or in the show notes, and
Speaker 1: a full list of credits for this episode can be
Speaker 1: found there as well. Since we like to keep things
Speaker 1: nice and small around here, and if you listen to
Speaker 1: the end of the show, you know I give you
Speaker 1: a piece of advice, and this week it's that I
Speaker 1: just realized that there is a feature in Gmail that
Speaker 1: lets you add a task list. Google it. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: You check the box next to an email, you add
Speaker 1: it to your task list, and it pulls up on
Speaker 1: the side of your email, so you can just find
Speaker 1: what you're doing easily. Click an email instead of just
Speaker 1: putting random stars on things, and it actually, I will
Speaker 1: be honest, kind of gamifies your to do list because
Speaker 1: you get to click it and then it disappears and
Speaker 1: you go, haha, I did that. So if you have
Speaker 1: a Gmail box, very helpful. I don't know if that
Speaker 1: helps anyone else. Also, kids, floss your teeth because your
Speaker 1: dentist will love you. And in the future, when you're
Speaker 1: grown up, you're going to spend way less money getting
Speaker 1: cavities filled and you can spend it on more fun
Speaker 1: stuff like a virtual reality headset that your parents won't
Speaker 1: let you buy when you're a kid. Okay, that's all
Speaker 1: for this week. Until next time. Smologites per bite, colg.
Speaker 2: Knowlogy. I'd call them the super Mario Brothers.