WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:04.599 All right, we'll started all right three to two one. Hi, 2 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:06.960 this is William Ramsey. Bocome to William Ramsey Investigates on 3 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:08.960 Today Show. Have a very special guest. His name is 4 00:00:09.039 --> 00:00:12.480 Kurt Blurstad and he published in twenty nineteen a book 5 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:14.759 that I read, a really fascinating book. The title of 6 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:17.960 the book is Occupied, a novel based upon a true story, 7 00:00:18.239 --> 00:00:22.280 and his website is www k u rt PLO r 8 00:00:22.559 --> 00:00:25.920 sta d dot com. But this is a family story 9 00:00:25.960 --> 00:00:29.039 that he wrote and takes place in Norway. But he 10 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:31.440 can talk more about that. So, Kurt, are you there. 11 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:33.840 Yes, I am William, and thank you for having me 12 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:34.560 on the show today. 13 00:00:34.679 --> 00:00:37.320 Awesome, Well, thanks for gring to the interview. Can you 14 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:39.359 talk about kind of your family? You have a kind 15 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:43.439 of a multi or an international family background. Can you 16 00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:46.880 talk about that background and what led you to put 17 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:49.520 their stories together in this book Occupied. 18 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:54.880 Oh? Yes, obviously my father is from Norway. But when 19 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:57.560 I say that he was born in Brooklyn, New York 20 00:00:57.759 --> 00:01:03.399 in nineteen twenty nine, with the depression, he and his brother, 21 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:06.959 mother and father moved back to Norway to the family 22 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.120 farm with their grandparents at the age of two. And 23 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:12.959 so when I would ask my father, you know, are 24 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:15.239 you an American and are you a Norwegian. He'd say, well, 25 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:17.840 I'm a Norwegian American says I'm an American because I 26 00:01:17.920 --> 00:01:21.319 was born there. But I really spent my entire childhood 27 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:25.439 and teenage years growing up in Norway and didn't come 28 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:29.799 back until I was seventeen because of the war. And 29 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:34.120 the war really split their family. I mean they all 30 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:37.920 went back to Norway. And then as things got better 31 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:41.959 and the depression got better and in the United States, 32 00:01:42.040 --> 00:01:46.280 my grandfather decided to come back try to get established again, 33 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:49.480 make some money, and make enough money to bring his 34 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:53.400 entire family back with him. The problem with that was 35 00:01:54.400 --> 00:01:57.359 the Germans didn't necessarily have the same plan as they did, 36 00:01:57.439 --> 00:02:02.879 and then invaded Norway before my father, brothers, and grandmother 37 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:05.319 could come back. So they were split during the war, 38 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:09.199 and it, you know, lent to a lot of interesting stories. 39 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:13.080 As a child growing up, my father would say, oh, yeah, 40 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:15.159 you know, I had to ski to school and do 41 00:02:15.199 --> 00:02:17.400 all those things, and you know I had to work 42 00:02:17.439 --> 00:02:20.960 every day and just my life. You know, it was fun, 43 00:02:21.000 --> 00:02:22.680 but it was a lot of hard work growing up. 44 00:02:22.719 --> 00:02:24.719 It's nothing like it is now. As you would explain 45 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:26.719 to me that you know you've got it easy. You 46 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:30.520 know things are easy on the kids these days, and 47 00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:32.319 so you know, you listen to it as a child 48 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.080 and you think, okay, yeah, it's like every other's father 49 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:37.439 has the same stories. I skied both ways uphill the 50 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:39.960 school and it was terrible weather and blah blah blah, 51 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:42.960 and you know, it goes on. And it wasn't until 52 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:46.680 I got to be in my twenties that I maybe 53 00:02:46.719 --> 00:02:50.039 really appreciated it when I would hear my grandmother talk 54 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:52.319 about the stories and things that happened. And this as 55 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:56.520 a child when we would go over is nothing anybody 56 00:02:56.599 --> 00:02:59.599 spoke about. None of them spoke about the occupation, the 57 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:02.400 war it happened. They all kind of were very close 58 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:04.319 to the vest with things that happened. They didn't want 59 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:08.039 to say. What I learned later was some really terrible things, 60 00:03:08.599 --> 00:03:10.560 and I understand why they didn't want to share it 61 00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:12.639 to me or share it with me as a child 62 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:15.000 or as a as a young teenager. 63 00:03:15.680 --> 00:03:17.800 Right, and so what was your father's name? 64 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:22.759 My father was Trigva, Trigva Paul Bloorstad and so. 65 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:25.120 His brother to brother and sisters. 66 00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:27.199 He had a large family, right, yeah, he had an 67 00:03:27.199 --> 00:03:30.360 older brother, tore Off, who was about a year and 68 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:33.840 three months older, and then he had a younger brother, Odd, 69 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:37.479 who was I want to say, about four years younger 70 00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:40.080 than him, and then a younger sister who I think 71 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:43.879 is six years younger than he is. So, you know, 72 00:03:43.960 --> 00:03:45.919 growing up, he spent a lot of time with his 73 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:49.960 brother because they were so close in age, and they 74 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:53.240 just got paired together all the time, having to do chores, 75 00:03:53.319 --> 00:03:55.759 do everything. It was you and you and tore Off 76 00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:57.599 go do this, or you two go do that, and 77 00:03:57.840 --> 00:04:01.599 you know, very occasionally where they lit up and I think, 78 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:05.159 you know, his brother was his best friend, I mean 79 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:09.000 every even in the later years, they did a lot 80 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:11.000 of things together. They were both in the American Legion, 81 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:15.560 the same legion hall even though they both were drafted 82 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:19.680 after World War Two and my father was sent to Korea, 83 00:04:19.800 --> 00:04:22.720 but my uncle, drafted a little earlier, was actually set 84 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:26.519 back to Germany during the occupation on the reverse side, 85 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:29.879 which he thought was very ironic that all these Germans 86 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:33.759 had occupied my country for years and now I'm over 87 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:37.279 here in Germany trying to help, you know, occupy them 88 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:40.600 and get them back on their feet at least I 89 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:44.319 guess for the West Germans, as the East German was 90 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:47.480 still part of or controlled by Russia, right. 91 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:50.519 So I mean there, you'd start off the book very early, 92 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:55.160 when nineteen thirty six. So they're together, Trigva and Thoral 93 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:59.120 are together. They're kind of young kids, but they're tasked 94 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.759 with many respond abilities to kind of help out, kind 95 00:05:01.800 --> 00:05:04.519 of like at a farm environment. Can you talk about 96 00:05:04.519 --> 00:05:06.480 the stuff they had to do to kind of keep 97 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:07.480 the household intact? 98 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:13.600 Oh? Yes, So once my grandfather left and basically left 99 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:15.800 them in charge at a very young age and said, 100 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:17.759 you know, well you've got to help your mom out 101 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:20.319 as much as you can, you know, And that's when 102 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:22.680 she decided to go live with her mother, who was 103 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:28.120 also alone because my dad's grandfather had died as a 104 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:32.040 complication from the Spanish flu. And so they all kind 105 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:35.519 of moved into one house just north of Vansa in 106 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:39.279 southern Norway, and we're all living together in the one house. 107 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:42.879 So it was my dad, his brothers and sister, his mom, 108 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:45.439 and his grandmother. So there's six of them in a 109 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:49.839 very small house, but they made it work. There was 110 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:52.600 a lot of relatives living around, so they had lots 111 00:05:52.600 --> 00:05:57.040 of uncles and some cousins, although my dad and his 112 00:05:57.079 --> 00:05:59.160 brother were the oldest of the cousins and most of 113 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:02.480 the cousins were much younger, so they got tasked with 114 00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:07.040 helping on the farms and doing a lot of the 115 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.839 chores all around the house. So one of the jobs 116 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:15.160 that they I write about early on is my dad's uncle, 117 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:19.199 Tarled had the largest farm. He was the only son, 118 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:23.040 and the way things were in Norway is the oldest 119 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:27.199 son inherited the farm or whatever property, and so he 120 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.439 had taken over the farm when he got married at 121 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:36.600 I think nineteen and basically took his mom and bought 122 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:39.639 another house down the road and set her up there, 123 00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:41.600 but really wanted to run the farm as a man 124 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:45.240 and his family and start having children. And so my 125 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:48.720 dad and uncle when they first got over there, he 126 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:50.759 had a peat bog down at the bottom of the 127 00:06:50.839 --> 00:06:54.240 hill near the water, and the peat had to be 128 00:06:54.319 --> 00:06:58.920 cut every year and stacked and dried, and they basically 129 00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:02.560 used that for cooking because pete, once dried, is a 130 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:05.519 little easier to regulate in a wood burning stove or 131 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:08.079 in this case, a pete burning stove to cook with, 132 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:10.959 and a lot of the wood that was used was 133 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:13.160 used generally just to heat the farm, and so this 134 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:16.600 was a very arduous job for You can imagine a 135 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:19.560 ten year old and a twelve year old with my 136 00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:22.040 uncle down there cutting out large stacks of pete, and 137 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:26.120 pete is cut with a long spade in about three 138 00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:28.879 foot sections that are six inch by six inch, and 139 00:07:28.920 --> 00:07:32.759 he's throwing them up on the on the ground because 140 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:34.720 he's down on the hole cutting it. And then they're 141 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:38.160 stacking them and sorting them out and moving them around 142 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:40.560 and doing all that. And it's just a lot of 143 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:44.000 backbreaking work of heavy things when you're a kid and 144 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:47.480 you're lifting something that's forty pounds all day long and 145 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:50.519 stacking it and stacking it. And I tried to reflect 146 00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:52.800 that really well in that chapter, that there was lots 147 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.920 of hard work to do and they just did what 148 00:07:55.959 --> 00:07:58.399 they were told. In other words, this is just part 149 00:07:58.399 --> 00:08:00.120 of your life. You're going to do this. One day, 150 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:02.720 you're going to help plant things. On other days you're 151 00:08:02.720 --> 00:08:05.879 going to help harvest. We need you to fish. Everybody 152 00:08:05.879 --> 00:08:09.279 fished in Norway. There's water everywhere, so there's fresh water 153 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:12.319 fish and obviously saltwater fish. If you lived near the 154 00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:15.759 coast and had a boat or could get out, which 155 00:08:15.839 --> 00:08:18.360 my uncle did. He had a small rowboat for a lake, 156 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:21.240 and then he had a friend who had a power 157 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:23.279 boat at the time, which you know, there weren't many 158 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:28.079 of those. Everything was really sailboats for the small boats 159 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:31.959 and he would take them out occasionally fishing and that's just. 160 00:08:32.360 --> 00:08:34.879 You know, right, And there was no electricity, I think 161 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:39.240 you said, in their house. So yeah, rural Pete, you know, 162 00:08:39.639 --> 00:08:41.360 definitely different. So now I think you wrote that your 163 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.000 mom said it burnt better, it was better for cooking. 164 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:47.240 But yeah, so pretty young guys. A lot of things 165 00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:52.279 going on around there, and kind of rumblings of strange 166 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:54.120 happenings in Europe around that time, right. 167 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:57.320 Yeah, that was a discussion in their school that they 168 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:00.360 went to mister Dunwold, who was the teacher, and you 169 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:04.200 can imagine it was a one room schoolhouse with all 170 00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:07.039 of the older grades went together at one time, and 171 00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:10.120 it was kind of a Monday, Wednesday, Friday schedule and 172 00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:14.000 then the younger children went Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday, so 173 00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.519 they did split them up somewhat. But he said, I'm 174 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:20.440 in a classroom with you know, maybe twenty other students 175 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:24.639 and they're in five different grades. And in Norway they 176 00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:27.559 really were only expected to go to school until eighth grade, 177 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:30.399 so it was optional to keep going to school. And 178 00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:32.879 of course my uncle and my dad, because of the war, 179 00:09:32.960 --> 00:09:36.080 both stopped at eighth grade and got whatever job they 180 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:39.159 could later on that actually paid money. But a lot 181 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.679 of the jobs they had had as younger children, or 182 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:47.919 just volunteer or day labor on other people's farms, helping them, 183 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:50.519 you know, pick apples for the few people that had 184 00:09:50.559 --> 00:09:54.519 apple trees, or digging up potatoes, or helping run the horse, 185 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.879 you know, to plow up a field. So the town 186 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:02.440 of Vonsa down in town did have electricity, but as 187 00:10:02.480 --> 00:10:05.120 you got up the hill where they lived and just 188 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:08.000 maybe a mile and a half out of town, electricity 189 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:11.000 didn't go any farther. So they had a well with 190 00:10:11.080 --> 00:10:15.000 a bucket and an outhouse and oil lamps if they 191 00:10:15.039 --> 00:10:17.799 could get oil in a couple of candles, and it 192 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:20.519 was really you know, I just want to say, for 193 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:23.039 this country you're talking back in the late eighteen hundreds 194 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:25.639 is probably what it was more like than it was 195 00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:28.480 being nineteen thirties or nineteen forty. 196 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:30.480 Right, And a lot of bartering. You said there was 197 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:33.840 trading going on. People would exchange items like the old 198 00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:34.919 days without currency. 199 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:39.440 So yeah, and especially more so they did a lot 200 00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:43.360 of that before the war. So my great grandmother had 201 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:47.039 a spinning wheel and her one of her I think 202 00:10:47.080 --> 00:10:48.799 it was her sister, so it would be her son 203 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:51.759 in law had a sheep farm and they would harvest 204 00:10:51.799 --> 00:10:53.600 the wool and she would take a lot of it 205 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:56.639 and she would spin it into different yarns and then 206 00:10:56.879 --> 00:10:59.240 sell it back, you know. So he would she would 207 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:01.200 buy the wool and then spin it and then sell 208 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:03.519 it back, and she was supposedly one of the best 209 00:11:03.559 --> 00:11:06.360 spinners in the town, if you can imagine in a 210 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:09.440 town that maybe has two hundred people. I mean, but 211 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:13.279 it did leave, we go to Vonsa, some of it 212 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:16.159 would go to Farsen, and Farsen was maybe another mile 213 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:20.279 and a half from Vonsa to the east, but also 214 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:21.440 on the coast. 215 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:23.799 And Vince's almost kind of like if you look at 216 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.720 Norway like a tear drop, it's kind of right in 217 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:28.919 the center, in the very middle at the bottom. 218 00:11:29.039 --> 00:11:35.960 Yes, it's almost the most southern point of Norway. 219 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:37.159 So you're close to all of the Feord like inlets 220 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:41.480 and things like that. Can you talk about kind of 221 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:44.600 what like what happened to kind of nineteen thirty nine 222 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:47.399 is the news that was going through Norway and what 223 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:49.960 people were kind of talking about in the local community 224 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:53.039 when you know, is the Germans kind of were on 225 00:11:53.080 --> 00:11:53.480 the march. 226 00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:57.039 Yeah, they didn't notice, you know, what was going on, 227 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:00.440 and like everything else, they declared to be neutral, but 228 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:05.919 obviously the Germans didn't care. So they knew what happened 229 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.120 in Poland and how quick that was. And they'd seen 230 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:11.919 a lot of German ships because obviously going south of 231 00:12:12.679 --> 00:12:15.440 Norway in between Denmark and there's really only one way 232 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:18.039 out for the ships to get out, and they didn't 233 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:22.519 notice more and more fishing boats, which maybe weren't necessarily 234 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.200 fishing boats, but that's how they were gathering information. And 235 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:28.600 I think there's also one chapter in my book right 236 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:32.480 before the war starts where they go out and their 237 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:35.679 uncle Tarl notices this that these ships are doing some 238 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:40.399 weird things really close to the shore, and he goes 239 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:43.159 to the doctor, who I learned later on was part 240 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:47.559 of the mill Org later on, and they were sharing 241 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:52.080 information with the British and other countries to say look, 242 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:55.080 we think this is coming. It's coming, And then of 243 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:58.639 course it did. Three days later, the Germans actually invaded 244 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:02.799 Oslo and I think Bergen and christian Son and a 245 00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:06.720 lot of the larger coastal cities on southern Norway. And 246 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:09.080 they didn't really get to Vonsa until about a week 247 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:11.279 later because they just figured, you know, little towns like this, 248 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:18.279 we'll just well. 249 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:17.720 Right, And there was kind of a there was a 250 00:13:17.799 --> 00:13:20.200 significant battle for the Battle of Oslo you talk about 251 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:23.200 in the book, like there were holdouts and battles and 252 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:26.039 the old fortress and the king and everything like that. 253 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:29.879 Yeah, as the German ships came up, they really just 254 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:32.759 kind of came up nonchalantly. Is the best way I 255 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:35.080 can put it. Is they didn't really have their guns out, 256 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:37.159 they weren't ready. They just figured they were just going 257 00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:39.919 to cruise right in and then at the last minute 258 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:43.200 shoot a you know, bomb and do a bunch of things, 259 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.080 and just figured the Norwegians weren't ready. Well. Fortunately, the 260 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:50.639 commander of one of the islands in the fjord just 261 00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:54.000 south of Norway, and I can't remember the name at 262 00:13:54.000 --> 00:13:56.840 this point, he was there with maybe ten percent staff, 263 00:13:56.879 --> 00:14:01.039 thirty percent staff and just could see this coming and knew, okay, 264 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:03.080 this is not good. There's no reason they should be 265 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:06.519 this far up. It was an old torpedo battery in 266 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:09.720 an island, and they did have some surface guns, but 267 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:12.159 they fortunately were able to get off two or three 268 00:14:12.200 --> 00:14:16.639 torpedoes and sunk the main ship coming up the fjord 269 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:19.279 at that time, and it caused the rest of the 270 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:23.720 ships to retreat, which then gave the Norwegians two or 271 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:27.919 three days of really just battling the paratroopers, which they 272 00:14:27.919 --> 00:14:30.559 could hold off because there weren't as many as you 273 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.320 would think. They were just so confident they were just 274 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:35.919 going to land and move people off the ship and 275 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:38.639 just take over the city. Now, this did allow the 276 00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:43.679 king the ability and the governing body to kind of 277 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:47.720 retreat and decide what to do. So the Battle of 278 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:51.759 also was a very large battle for Norway at the time, 279 00:14:52.679 --> 00:14:56.159 and if you can imagine that, you know, we think 280 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.759 of communication as things that happened instantly now, but back 281 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:02.919 then it really took Vonsa about a week to hear 282 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:05.519 about the Battle of Oslo, and even then it was 283 00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:08.519 you know, pieces and parts and what to believe, what 284 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:10.600 not to believe, But obviously because it was such a 285 00:15:10.600 --> 00:15:14.320 great story of the Norwegians fighting off the Germans that 286 00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:16.159 that was the you know, the truth, and it was 287 00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:18.159 the easy story to believe, and so that's the one 288 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:19.399 that I depict. 289 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:21.679 And that was kind of like the beginning because Hakon 290 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:24.320 the king moved went to England, so that was like 291 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:29.559 the preliminary times where the relationship between Norway during the war, 292 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:31.559 Norway and England kind of began at that. 293 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:35.600 Time, right, Yes, that that was really I mean, they'd 294 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:39.440 had relationships, but the English really did help out a 295 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.120 lot by allowing the king and his family and other 296 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:46.559 people to go there and decide how to reorganize their troops. 297 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:49.639 I do think it took I'm trying to remember if 298 00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:51.559 the king, it took about a month I think before 299 00:15:51.559 --> 00:15:54.240 he actually left. They went up through Sweden through the 300 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:56.720 middle of Norway, which you can imagine, you know, the 301 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:58.759 coast seems like it might be easy to conquer, but 302 00:15:58.799 --> 00:16:01.240 there's lots of parks in the central part of Norway 303 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:04.759 that I don't think the Germans ever went to. If 304 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:07.279 it just was so remote they didn't need it, if 305 00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:09.639 it wasn't on a waterway. Most of the times I 306 00:16:09.679 --> 00:16:12.240 don't think the Germans were really worried about what was 307 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:14.679 going on in other parts because it was so rural 308 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:15.840 and so remote. 309 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:19.360 Right, and so they kind of just started moving in. 310 00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:21.240 I was surprised to hear in your book that they 311 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:27.039 brought their whole prison slave camp sensibilities all the way 312 00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:28.840 to Norway. That was surprised to me. 313 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:32.159 Yeah, they really looked at it as the Atlantic border. 314 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:36.120 They figured if they could control the whole coast of Norway. 315 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.159 Their iron supply was really coming from the northern part 316 00:16:39.200 --> 00:16:43.200 of Sweden, and they shipped a lot of it around. 317 00:16:43.240 --> 00:16:46.080 I think there were some trains coming down also that 318 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:47.639 were picking it up on the other port, but a 319 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:50.200 lot of it was moved by ship, and so they 320 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.960 really wanted to protect their supply lines for materials like that. 321 00:16:54.960 --> 00:16:57.360 That really helped them produce all their airplanes and their 322 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:01.480 tanks and everything else that they needed for the war. 323 00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:05.359 Right, So it was like a flat out invasion, not 324 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:09.440 expect I mean, with the sensibility at that time, they 325 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:12.799 weren't expecting to be invaded. 326 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.880 Right, No, not at all. In fact, I did some 327 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:19.319 research and it was kind of like, yes, Norway was neutral, 328 00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:23.559 but at one point the English thought about I don't 329 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:26.319 want to say attacking them, but going in and saying, look, 330 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:28.279 we want to move in, We want you to be 331 00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:30.200 part of the war, we want to use your land 332 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.279 because you're you're in a strategic position to help stop 333 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:36.200 the Germans from getting all these supplies. And the Germans 334 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:41.000 basically invaded about five days prior to the British proposing 335 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:43.359 that and saying look, we want to come in help 336 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:46.119 defend you. And so I don't know if you know, 337 00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:48.559 the Germans knew what the British were doing, or if 338 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:50.519 they just got lucky with their timing. 339 00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:54.319 Right, And so that was it. So your dad treatment 340 00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:58.000 was then working I think he was working in a 341 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.039 what is it in a nursery or something during that time, 342 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:07.000 earning extra money, and also started I mean I think 343 00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:11.720 it was I mean the dinner were all Germans started 344 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:15.279 filtering through the town where he lived in Bonsa, Right. 345 00:18:15.519 --> 00:18:19.440 Yeah, so my uncle was really lucky to get almost 346 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:22.759 a full time job. But my dad, with work the 347 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:25.119 way it was, had lots of one day a week 348 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.759 jobs or two day a week sometimes. So he had 349 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:32.119 jobs with mister Ellenis at the store which later became 350 00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:36.799 a central point for the EXU to gather information and 351 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:40.720 disperse it. He had a job at a nursery, He 352 00:18:40.759 --> 00:18:42.839 had a job at a window factory for a while. 353 00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:45.960 He just had lots of odd jobs because anything to 354 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:49.319 get food, which was scarce even when the war started, 355 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:51.519 and became more scarce as the war went on, and 356 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:54.519 the Germans just pretty much took everything they needed and 357 00:18:54.640 --> 00:19:01.440 left almost nothing. But with the strategic I guess being south, 358 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:05.519 the Germans built an airfield which is still in operation. 359 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:08.480 Obviously it's a little larger than it was, but it's 360 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.400 not a commercial airfield by any means. It's still a 361 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.319 small private airport. But when they built the airfield, they 362 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:17.680 brought in all the prisoners and built a prison camp 363 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:21.039 because they at that point had lots of prisoners from 364 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:23.920 I guess Poland and Russia, And my dad said most 365 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.799 of the prisoners were Polish, very few were Russian at 366 00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:30.559 the time, and used them to build everything. The prisoners 367 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:34.400 built their own prison camp, then built the airfield, and 368 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.119 then there was a lot of They put some caves 369 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:40.000 or tunnels in the side of the mountains at the 370 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:43.920 low end, and they brought buzz bombs over near the 371 00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:46.559 very end of the war and they were hiding buzz 372 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.319 bombs in there and then launching them at night. So 373 00:19:49.400 --> 00:19:51.200 I don't know if they were launching into England because 374 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:53.039 England was kind of a long shot and I'm not 375 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:55.000 sure how far the buzz bombs could go, but I 376 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.599 think it's possible they were, and that they might have 377 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:04.079 also once D Day and the Allied forces came into France, 378 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:07.519 might have used it to bomb the Allies in France too, 379 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:10.519 once they'd come in with the buzz bombs. But he 380 00:20:10.519 --> 00:20:12.960 he did tell me one good story of he and 381 00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:15.240 his brothers and his sister sitting up on the hill 382 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:18.599 just watching them at night, you know, launched the buzz bombs, 383 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:20.799 because to them it was kind of like this huge 384 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:25.839 fireworks nothing, that's something they've never seen before. So terrible 385 00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:28.119 as it was, it was kind of an interesting thing 386 00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:29.799 for him to talk about and say, well, it's just 387 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.400 kind of amazing to see this, But yes, it was 388 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:33.960 a terrible thing to happen. 389 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:38.119 And that was kind of there were always that seemed 390 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:41.039 like your dad and his brother were always kind of 391 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:44.240 watching and observing things going on. That's how he got 392 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.039 recruited your dad to watch for some of these meetings, 393 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:50.000 Can you talk about what he did as kind of 394 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:52.319 a watchman and what the XU was. 395 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:57.039 Yeah, so the XCU really in normally there was the 396 00:20:57.160 --> 00:20:59.359 XU and there's the mill Org. And the mill Org 397 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:03.079 was more of a military espionage blow things up, and 398 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:07.359 the EXU was more of an information gathering for reconnaissance 399 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:09.880 to say where do we see troop movements? What's going on? 400 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:13.079 And then that would get pushed back. And then I 401 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:16.160