1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,839 Speaker 1: What is of fellas echoes? I am damn Valley coming 2 00:00:07,879 --> 00:00:11,720 at you with my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant 3 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,800 Hughes the NBA off seat and look ahead, trained holes on, 4 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:16,480 We're go check out. I don't know how many teams 5 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:18,320 we've done at this point, but we've been we kind 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,879 of turning them out. So go check all those out. 7 00:00:21,359 --> 00:00:24,399 We're onto the Golden State Warriors. One of us might 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,440 be a little bit invested in what happens into this offseason. Grant, 9 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:28,239 how are you feeling? 10 00:00:28,359 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 2: How are you? 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: Uh? 12 00:00:30,879 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: I've reached acceptance in the stages of grief. I reached 13 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,439 it pretty quickly. I reached it like about three seconds 14 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,880 after Steph pulled his hamstring, started mentally and emotionally preparing 15 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:45,520 for this conversation. So I'm doing great, have no issues, 16 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,079 nothing's wrong at all. Should I like? I wish I 17 00:00:48,079 --> 00:00:50,079 could just dim the lights there it's all dark and. 18 00:00:50,359 --> 00:00:52,799 Speaker 1: Here now you should have had an emo, Grant. 19 00:00:53,719 --> 00:00:57,159 Speaker 2: Need like a black hoodie and just yeah, I really should. 20 00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,799 Speaker 1: Like jim just been a spinning image of Jimmy during 21 00:00:59,799 --> 00:01:02,759 the twenty twenty Yeah Bami heat media Day. 22 00:01:02,799 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, no, I look the post trade deadline portion 23 00:01:09,079 --> 00:01:12,239 of the season was like highly encouraging even then as 24 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,439 we talked about like the team had real flaws, like 25 00:01:15,719 --> 00:01:20,640 pretty exploitable issues, and then age and injury kind of 26 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,120 entered themselves into the picture and that really exacerbated everything. So, 27 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,680 uh yeah, let's talk about the Warriors offseason. 28 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: So getting into their vitals the age and injury history 29 00:01:30,519 --> 00:01:32,959 is not going to go anywhere. I don't know, but 30 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,359 they're not like this isn't okay. The Phoenix Suns here 31 00:01:37,519 --> 00:01:41,079 they are around seventeen point four million below the tax 32 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,680 and twenty five million below the first apron. And just 33 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:45,760 as a note, if you want them to use their 34 00:01:45,799 --> 00:01:47,920 non tax payer mid level fourteen point one million, they 35 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,439 need to stay below that first apron. However, and I 36 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,120 think this is going to define a lot of this discussion. 37 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,760 None of that includes a new deal for Jonathan kaminga 38 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,959 who reportedly turned down like close to thirty million last year. 39 00:02:00,359 --> 00:02:02,680 I don't think he gets as much this year. But 40 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,719 per the Athletics Anthony Slater, both sides want to work 41 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,080 on a sign and trade. And so before I throw 42 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:10,879 it to Grant, the other thing we want to outline 43 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,840 here is I would agree that a sign and trade 44 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,280 makes sense for both sides, and the Warriors need kind 45 00:02:16,319 --> 00:02:20,680 of like shooting size, maybe another wing defender here. Jonathan 46 00:02:20,719 --> 00:02:23,680 Kminga provides roughly none of that, which is why it 47 00:02:23,719 --> 00:02:26,039 makes sense for a sign and trade. But you do 48 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,960 run into base yar compensation issues and grant if this 49 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,080 is too convoluted. I know you understand, let me know 50 00:02:32,439 --> 00:02:35,800 base your compensation means if Jonathan Cominga signs a contract 51 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,960 for thirty million dollars per year, he only counts in 52 00:02:39,039 --> 00:02:41,719 a sign and trade, he only counts as fifteen million 53 00:02:41,759 --> 00:02:44,520 dollars in matching money for Golden State, but he counts 54 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,199 as the full boat that thirty million dollars to his 55 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,360 new team. And so that is the gap. There are 56 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,039 ways around it, if you're working with a team that 57 00:02:51,039 --> 00:02:53,840 has cap space, or if you just expand the trade, 58 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:55,879 but that is something we have to keep in mind. 59 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:57,680 I've seen a lot of names thrown out as part 60 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,520 of a Jonathan Minga sign and trade, many of them 61 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,560 it's not going to be legal. But with that said, 62 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:08,400 let's start with Jonathan Kaminga. What is I mean, where 63 00:03:08,439 --> 00:03:10,240 are you at with him as a player? And then 64 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,919 do you agree that one, is he better off elsewhere? 65 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:15,919 Are the Warriors better off without him? And then two 66 00:03:16,319 --> 00:03:18,360 like what type of value would you think that he 67 00:03:18,439 --> 00:03:19,960 has in any deal? 68 00:03:20,319 --> 00:03:23,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's been a real His whole career has 69 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,520 kind of been a roller coaster, and you got sort 70 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,919 of a mini version of it in this postseason where 71 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,000 he's out of the rotation and then he looks phenomenal 72 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,840 for a game or two and then you know, kind 73 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,960 of turns back into what he's been. Like I guess 74 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,960 whatever his general like baseline level is, which is he's 75 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,879 going to score and like not help you in any 76 00:03:41,879 --> 00:03:45,560 other ways. Really, So, so I don't know how you 77 00:03:45,599 --> 00:03:48,560 evaluate that player. I like, if you're an acquiring team 78 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,000 that because I do think first of all, they should 79 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,360 sign and trade him. I think that is the pathway 80 00:03:53,479 --> 00:03:56,159 to the best pathway. If you don't want to rely 81 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,280 on the mid level to improve the team and to 82 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,919 get the shooting and playmaking and not Steph scoring that 83 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,520 you need, maybe it's to get like a more playable, 84 00:04:04,759 --> 00:04:08,840 like legit starting center, Like maybe he's the way you 85 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,680 do that. So I think assign and trade is the 86 00:04:10,719 --> 00:04:15,080 way to go. I do think if you're another team, 87 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:17,399 but tell me what you think about this, because I 88 00:04:17,399 --> 00:04:20,680 feel like I'm can't be trusted if you're another team. 89 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:25,079 Can you talk yourself into Oh, Kaminga is just like 90 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:28,439 he just hasn't been allowed to do what he's good at. 91 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,879 Like it's really more of the situation. It's very hard 92 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,480 for young players to thrive with Golden State. That's just 93 00:04:33,519 --> 00:04:36,600 been the case historically. There is like an all star 94 00:04:36,759 --> 00:04:39,560 here somewhere, Like do you think if I guess, you 95 00:04:39,639 --> 00:04:42,160 may as well just say Brooklyn since that's the team 96 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,720 that could pay him more than like what more than 97 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,720 seventeen or more than twenty a year? Like, is there 98 00:04:48,759 --> 00:04:50,959 any part of Kaminga where you're like, oh, no, I 99 00:04:50,959 --> 00:04:54,879 think I could justify believing there's a star level player here. 100 00:04:54,959 --> 00:04:57,519 We're willing to make an offer sheet or offer a 101 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,800 trade commensurate with that valuation. 102 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: I think you could talk yourself into it. And the 103 00:05:02,639 --> 00:05:04,959 two ways that I would do it would be maybe 104 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,800 it's three, but like, looking at the context of the team, 105 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,000 could you put him in a situation where he's gonna 106 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,519 have a more consistent role and be on the ball 107 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,600 or at least be viewed as the primary play finisher 108 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,920 more two I think floor spacing around him is super important. 109 00:05:18,959 --> 00:05:20,879 So is it a team that if they have a 110 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,600 traditional big, is there just a bunch of shooters around 111 00:05:23,639 --> 00:05:25,839 him still or do they maybe have some more stretch 112 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,759 at the five than a lot of these other teams. 113 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,680 Then the other thing I think is there the question 114 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,480 I'm asking is is there an analog of a player 115 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,920 not the exact archetype, but it's Oh, he goes through 116 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:37,680 like the first four years on his team and as 117 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:41,279 you see these flashes, but then he leaves and comes 118 00:05:41,319 --> 00:05:44,160 closer to actualizing the player everyone thought he could be. 119 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,680 Is that is that Julius Randall after his time with 120 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,319 the Lakers? Is that? Like, I'm not again, different players, 121 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,879 but yeah, you kind of need to like, what is 122 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,959 the precedent for something like that? Like even market In 123 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,560 leaving the Bulls and then leaving Cleveland and turning into 124 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,000 what he was in Utah for a couple there was 125 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,199 like more of a precedent or more of a sustainable 126 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,920 precedent than we've seen with Kaminga so far. I just 127 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,600 don't know how much of that is a symptom of 128 00:06:08,079 --> 00:06:10,480 the Warriors are trying to be good. He doesn't really 129 00:06:10,519 --> 00:06:14,279 fit like Kurs guiding tenants and they didn't have the 130 00:06:14,319 --> 00:06:17,040 stomach to let him maybe try and fit into that. 131 00:06:17,439 --> 00:06:20,240 It's that's what's you know. I'm not I've generally not 132 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:23,519 been like a kaminga guy compared to you or consensus frankly, 133 00:06:23,879 --> 00:06:25,800 but I still like, you see what you see what 134 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:27,959 he could do on offense sometimes like oh my god, 135 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:28,519 it's there. 136 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And like it's the eye test because you just 137 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,680 athletically he can do stuff guys the other guys can't. 138 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,680 Like we saw that in the Minnesota series. Like just 139 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,519 he's like just athletically, he has superstar athleticism. I don't 140 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,519 know what that counts for if you don't have the 141 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,279 other stuff. But like to your point, it's not just 142 00:06:47,399 --> 00:06:50,079 watching him that you could talk yourself into him being special. 143 00:06:50,519 --> 00:06:53,600 So this is cherry picked, admittedly, and it's very easy. 144 00:06:53,639 --> 00:06:56,000 For some reason, it's so easy to find like incredible 145 00:06:56,079 --> 00:06:58,000 cherry pick stats for him. I don't know why that 146 00:06:58,160 --> 00:06:58,800 is so. 147 00:06:59,000 --> 00:06:59,199 Speaker 1: Dan. 148 00:06:59,639 --> 00:07:03,519 Speaker 2: There have been nine players across their first four seasons 149 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,120 in the NBA to average twenty points, six rebounds, and 150 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,480 two assists per thirty six with fifty eight percent true shooting. 151 00:07:10,759 --> 00:07:13,120 Okay and we'll cut it off. You have to play 152 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:14,800 at least two hundred and fifty games, So there's no 153 00:07:14,879 --> 00:07:16,639 guys that showed up and played three games. 154 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: Games and Johnathan can make a play. It was it 155 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:18,879 like two fifty one or. 156 00:07:19,079 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: It's like two fifty eight. Yeah, it's like just trying 157 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:26,519 to find a stamp. So there's nine guys Kareem, David Robinson, Shaq, 158 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:31,000 Charles Barkley, Karl Anthony Towns, Nicole Jokich, Adrian Dantley. These 159 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,399 are all basically Hall of famers, were very very close 160 00:07:33,399 --> 00:07:35,720 to it. And I don't know how Montrez Harald did it, 161 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,160 but he slipped in there as the other guy. So 162 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,480 it's possible that Kaminga is just worse than Montrez Haral 163 00:07:41,879 --> 00:07:44,879 and also worse than everybody else I listed. But that's 164 00:07:44,959 --> 00:07:47,839 a wild ass list, and it just speaks to like 165 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:54,720 his actually weirdly like efficient scoring, and like just that 166 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,360 he hasn't gotten a real opportunity because his per games 167 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,279 are you know, he's got fifteen a game, he just 168 00:07:59,279 --> 00:08:02,160 doesn't play the thirty six minutes. That's how you talk 169 00:08:02,199 --> 00:08:04,560 yourself into him being legit. If you're a suitor, it's 170 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:06,680 like if we play him thirty six minutes, he's gonna 171 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:09,639 have incredible numbers, Like that's just what will happen? Will 172 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,480 that drive winning? The Warriors would tell you like probably not, 173 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:16,079 but uh yeah, I so, I just don't know. I 174 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,279 don't know how the league views him. I don't know 175 00:08:18,319 --> 00:08:20,959 how he should be viewed because it's been four years 176 00:08:20,959 --> 00:08:23,000 and I still think you're just like trying to weigh 177 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,120 the pluses and minuses. What I do feel confident in, 178 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,519 and you asked this earlier, is that he's not gonna 179 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:32,879 be the best version of himself on the Warriors. I 180 00:08:32,919 --> 00:08:35,960 feel like the relationships have been strained enough. I feel 181 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:37,799 like the style of play is just never going to 182 00:08:37,879 --> 00:08:41,320 be one that says like, hey go cook in isolation 183 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,000 a lot and we'll just stand around and watch like 184 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:46,919 that's just and he doesn't want to play, you know, 185 00:08:47,039 --> 00:08:51,679 the the what was the Spurs thing? Like, uh, what's 186 00:08:51,799 --> 00:08:53,960 what's like make a past dribbles, shoot decision in like 187 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,360 half a second or something like that or five tenths 188 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,519 or whatever. He's never going to be that guy. He 189 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:03,559 can't function that way in like a ball movement egalitarian offense. 190 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:06,799 So he could be great somewhere I don't think it 191 00:09:06,799 --> 00:09:08,879 will happen in Golden State for a number of reasons, 192 00:09:08,879 --> 00:09:10,320 So you just have to view him as a sign 193 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:12,240 and trade guy. I think that's the bottom line. 194 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,519 Speaker 1: Do you what do you view him as positionally? Is 195 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:18,200 he just a four or do you think he can 196 00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:19,080 be a three to four? 197 00:09:20,639 --> 00:09:22,639 Speaker 2: I think he could be a three to four. The 198 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:26,879 reason that I mean, I think the Warriors wanted him 199 00:09:26,919 --> 00:09:29,440 to be a four, and he just never rebounded or defended, 200 00:09:29,639 --> 00:09:32,799 especially on the interior enough to like justify that. So 201 00:09:32,919 --> 00:09:35,440 that's part of the conundrum too, is like he he 202 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:40,320 wants to be like a prime Kawhi Leonard level, like 203 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:43,039 on ball three. I think is what is what he 204 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:46,080 wants to be and what he thinks he is, and 205 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,080 the Warriors just disagreed. So I think I think there, 206 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,840 I think he makes the most sense as like mostly 207 00:09:54,879 --> 00:10:00,159 an off ball like transition threat, cutter, offensive rebounder, the 208 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,600 position defender, just like athletic tools wise, So that's a four, 209 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,559 but that's not what he wants to be or how 210 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:09,879 he wants to play. So whoever ends up with him 211 00:10:09,919 --> 00:10:11,039 is going to have to navigate that. 212 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,639 Speaker 1: Aside from Brooklyn, which I think could just I mean, 213 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:16,600 they have Cam Johnson, but I think the trade, if 214 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,639 it's just straight up with Brooklyn is cominga plus. What 215 00:10:18,799 --> 00:10:21,559 gets you Cam Johnson because well it's start there before 216 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,279 getting the kamingus up. What do you think is the 217 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,600 bigger need for them? Is it getting more and Steph 218 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,399 mentioned all of it in like kind of the effort 219 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,919 of everything. Is it size? Is it getting kind of 220 00:10:30,919 --> 00:10:32,879 another wing defender that you would trust more than Moody 221 00:10:32,879 --> 00:10:35,240 at this point and gives you more offense than GP two. 222 00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:37,559 Is it shooting that doesn't come in the form of 223 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:39,879 submarining your defense potentially like Buddy Yield. 224 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's I think it could take too. 225 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:46,399 There's really sort of two, but they're related. So it's 226 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:49,960 got to be someone that can either make shots at 227 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,480 a high enough clip that the defense is concerned about 228 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,159 them and produces offensive spacing through that concern, or it's 229 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,600 somebody who is good enough on the ball to be 230 00:11:01,799 --> 00:11:05,879 successful like bending the defense such that you're like mostly 231 00:11:05,919 --> 00:11:09,080 poor spacing doesn't hurt you as much, so playmaker shot 232 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,440 creator or like spacing shooter. I don't think you can 233 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:14,720 realistically expect to get like both of those things in 234 00:11:14,759 --> 00:11:17,840 one player because that player is a superstar. One or 235 00:11:17,879 --> 00:11:19,960 the other of those would be fine, and address what 236 00:11:20,039 --> 00:11:22,320 I think is the most glaring need, which is this 237 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,399 team cannot reliably score without Steph in the game against 238 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,399 good defenses. That's just that is the reality. So you 239 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,399 have to address that first. And if you don't go 240 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:32,519 get bigs like I think most people are fine with, 241 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:36,080 Like you bring LOONI back, you have Jackson Davis, you 242 00:11:36,159 --> 00:11:39,399 have post Draymond play center at the end of games anyway, 243 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,279 like you're gonna be small. You can survive that. I 244 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,720 don't think you can survive with an offense that is 245 00:11:45,879 --> 00:11:48,519 just Steph or nothing. I don't think that's gonna work. 246 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:50,279 Speaker 1: I'm with you, which is why we talked about this 247 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,039 when we were recording the Cavs Look Ahead. Where would 248 00:11:53,039 --> 00:11:56,360 there be some weirdo three team construction where Golden State 249 00:11:56,399 --> 00:11:59,320 gives up picks with Kaminga salary to bring in Jared 250 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,039 Allen cam Johnson ends up in Cleveland. But if you're 251 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,279 going to attach stuff to Johnathan Kaminga, you don't want 252 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:05,759 it to be for a big is what it sounds 253 00:12:05,799 --> 00:12:06,919 like you're landing on, right. 254 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 2: I think, so, don't you agree? Don't you think it's agree. 255 00:12:09,159 --> 00:12:11,120 I would just rather just have it be Cam Johnson 256 00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:13,440 if you if you're trading Kaminga, right, right? 257 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: Are there any other teams though? That I guess would 258 00:12:16,159 --> 00:12:19,159 sort of the let's start with the Bulls one. I 259 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,360 don't know how much sense he actually makes there with 260 00:12:21,399 --> 00:12:23,480 modest bouzelis if you think those two could play together, 261 00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:25,639 that'd be super interesting when you look at in terms 262 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,000 of physical tools between those two. But would you be 263 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,279 a little bit bummed out if assigning trade for Jonathan 264 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,480 Aminga yields back and there have to be other moving parts. 265 00:12:33,519 --> 00:12:36,240 It's like you get Nicola Vucevic on an expiring contract 266 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:36,720 and that's end. 267 00:12:37,039 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that feels pretty underwhelming, although, like I mean, I 268 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:42,960 don't know how much I believe in his shooting, but 269 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,519 he would just be an offense threat that you have 270 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,879 to account for as a defense, like the Warriors just 271 00:12:47,919 --> 00:12:50,399 don't have that. And if you can get it at center, great. 272 00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:53,279 I actually like the construction of a Bulls deal where 273 00:12:53,279 --> 00:12:55,919 you're also getting Lonzo Ball, which is risky but just 274 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,440 another smart and he's kind of neither of the things 275 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,399 I mentioned, like he's a good enough shooter or when healthy, 276 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:03,919 which is the biggest IF on the planet, and a 277 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,639 smart pass like he would thrive I think in the 278 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,759 Warriors like offensive philosophy, Like I think I think if 279 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:14,120 you if you can get any kind of healthy stretches 280 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,039 from him, he would really be a value add And 281 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,360 then Vouch is what he is. But yeah, that that 282 00:13:19,399 --> 00:13:25,159 feels underwhelming for Kaminga except like what I struggle to 283 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:27,120 find because you go back to the Cam Johnson well 284 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:28,519 and other than that, like I just don't know what 285 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,639 you're going to get for him in as sign and trade. 286 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:31,879 That's like clearly helpful. 287 00:13:32,279 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: Would you do just because there'd have to be more 288 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,279 money involved? Like would you include Moody for Lonzo Ball 289 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,120 and Vouch? That's like did your last aside from Putjemski, 290 00:13:41,159 --> 00:13:42,879 I guess Quinton post at this point, that's like your 291 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,080 last well of prospects. 292 00:13:44,679 --> 00:13:47,919 Speaker 2: Right, And you're really selling low on Moody too, because 293 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:52,519 he just totally fell apart in the playoffs, especially against Minnesota. 294 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,799 I think you would probably hesitate to do that because 295 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,759 odds are over the life of his contract, which is 296 00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:01,360 less than mid level money, Moody's probably gonna outproduce Ball. 297 00:14:02,279 --> 00:14:05,799 I would guess. But but and you have far you know, 298 00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:08,039 you can't really have more injury uncertainty than you would 299 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,639 have with Ball. So that's the Warriors. I think I 300 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:12,759 don't think you want to trade Moody right now, just 301 00:14:12,799 --> 00:14:15,200 because this is like the nadea of his value since 302 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:16,120 he signed that new deal. 303 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,759 Speaker 1: Now, I think this hasn't been talked about and probably 304 00:14:18,799 --> 00:14:20,519 for all maybe you would hate the fit, but like, 305 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,679 what about you would have to attach other stuff to 306 00:14:23,799 --> 00:14:26,279 Jonathan Cominga in this, But like, what about targeting Kobe 307 00:14:26,279 --> 00:14:28,720 White as part of this? We know the Bulls can't 308 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:31,360 extend him, They're gonna they have Josh Giddy entering restricted 309 00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:34,919 free agency? Is that too redundant? Well, not not even redundant, 310 00:14:34,919 --> 00:14:37,480 because Steph can play with anybody. But it's oh, okay, 311 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,799 like what are we doing here? Or is it? Man? 312 00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:41,240 You about someone who might be able to leave the 313 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:42,519 offense without stuff on the court. 314 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,679 Speaker 2: That's the thing. He fits into the the vacated Jordan 315 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,480 Pool role, where it's like, just go out there and 316 00:14:47,559 --> 00:14:49,360 run the show and get a little nuts if you want, 317 00:14:49,399 --> 00:14:51,799 and yeah, maybe we'll win those minutes and maybe we won't, 318 00:14:51,799 --> 00:14:54,279 but you'll have to be guarded like that's they don't 319 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,399 have that. They just like Pajemski's not that guy, and 320 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,039 Kirk Kerr was yelling at him that he needs to 321 00:14:59,039 --> 00:15:02,200 shoot more like the second the season ended. Basically, Kobe 322 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,759 White will break the defense down and score, like I 323 00:15:05,879 --> 00:15:08,279 just so, Yeah, No, I can understand why you say, 324 00:15:08,279 --> 00:15:10,519 like is that a little redundant? Like is that overkilled? 325 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,960 Do you need a guard like that? Yeah? I think 326 00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:15,120 I think you do. I think you really do. 327 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,399 Speaker 1: Because that would be I mean you could there's different 328 00:15:17,399 --> 00:15:19,000 things that you could do then if you're willing to 329 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,759 include Moody, like Kobe White is so cheap that like 330 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:25,720 kaminga Moody picks for mooch and White works. Or you 331 00:15:25,759 --> 00:15:28,720 could go you know, Lonzo Ball and Kobe White for 332 00:15:28,759 --> 00:15:31,960 KAMINGA plus smaller salaries and then like picks in there. 333 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,480 There's a bunch of different ways that you could do it. 334 00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:36,120 And like the idea of Kobe White and Golden State 335 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,759 feels weird and he is coming up on a new contract, 336 00:15:38,759 --> 00:15:41,000 who knows how much it cost to keep him, like 337 00:15:41,799 --> 00:15:44,360 you have Butler and Drake, like it would it feels 338 00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:46,480 like that team would be pretty dangerous if. 339 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:49,639 Speaker 2: I think he's a player like that. They just don't. 340 00:15:49,639 --> 00:15:51,480 They haven't had a guy like that since Pool and 341 00:15:51,519 --> 00:15:55,120 Pool was very imperfect, but like, you need a guy 342 00:15:55,200 --> 00:16:00,240 that's gonna like they just don't have anybody that is like, well, 343 00:16:00,399 --> 00:16:03,440 Kobe White would would check the off ball threat box too, 344 00:16:03,639 --> 00:16:06,200 Like she's like so that that that's a whole other thing. 345 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,799 And he's a willing shoot, like yeah, he's you'd be smaller, 346 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:12,879 and the Warriors, certainly this postseason run did not suggest 347 00:16:12,919 --> 00:16:15,399 that they should try to get smaller. But I think 348 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:18,759 you really do address the offense stuff pretty strongly with 349 00:16:18,759 --> 00:16:21,559 the like he's a fringe All Star producer, like, and 350 00:16:21,559 --> 00:16:23,240 he's young enough that maybe he just does make an 351 00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:25,279 All Star Game that that would be a major ad. 352 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:29,000 I think then you're talking about are they short on 353 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,399 the big wing stuff now? I mean maybe not if 354 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,080 Cominga was never going to play in a post series anyway, 355 00:16:34,159 --> 00:16:36,080 So yeah, you could live with that. I don't know, 356 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:37,080 that's an interesting one. 357 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,919 Speaker 1: Are there any other teams or like fits that sprung 358 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,120 to mind? I because I don't want to use him 359 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,559 to get a big back for the most part, like 360 00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:47,279 Charlotte would be interesting and something built around Mark Williams, 361 00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:50,159 like you need something else and like Josh Green doesn't 362 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,039 do it for me. I'm not touching Miles Bridges with 363 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,919 a twenty foot pole. Yeah, from Golden State. So that's 364 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:57,879 kind of tough. And like that's what's tough about Kaminga 365 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:01,240 is kind of finding like it's team where Okay, they 366 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,359 need to value Kaminga even if you are attaching picks 367 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:07,079 to him, and also is gonna send you back stuff 368 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,359 that you need And we're saying, yeah, big could be 369 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:10,759 part of it, but it can't be the meat and 370 00:17:10,759 --> 00:17:11,839 potatoes of that deal. 371 00:17:12,039 --> 00:17:14,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, it would be a lot easier if you're just 372 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,000 if like a Mark Williams, for example, was what they 373 00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:19,599 felt like they needed. I just that that type of 374 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,680 center has historically. 375 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,880 Speaker 1: Not That's also a great point. 376 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:24,279 Speaker 2: Made a lot of sense there. 377 00:17:24,799 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: I like the Clippers don't need him, and yeah, like 378 00:17:28,039 --> 00:17:31,359 Memphis is a no, Like you don't want anything. You 379 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:33,279 don't want coosm out of Milwaukee, So that's got to 380 00:17:33,319 --> 00:17:33,599 be a no. 381 00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 2: There's just like even if you look at other teams 382 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,119 that are like semi flexible relative to the league, like Detroit, 383 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:41,839 Like Detroit has no use for Jonathan cominga like there's no, 384 00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:43,640 he doesn't make any sense. 385 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:48,559 Speaker 1: There doesn't make any sense in Sacramento or San Antonio. Really, Washington, 386 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:50,960 I just go. 387 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,079 Speaker 2: Ahead, Well, so you could talk. I think I've seen 388 00:17:53,279 --> 00:17:58,359 some version of like kaminga to the Wizards, Kisbert comes back, 389 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:04,200 and I can't remember who else I've seen in there. Yeah, 390 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,000 maybe I can't. I can't remember now. 391 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: Like a double signing trade with Malcolm Brogden and Kissed 392 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:09,839 Bird for No is a. 393 00:18:09,799 --> 00:18:11,839 Speaker 2: Big I wish I could find it. Uh, But but 394 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,240 something like Washington, though, to your point, is a team 395 00:18:14,279 --> 00:18:17,960 that's like, yeah, you might maybe be like the right 396 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,680 team to take a flyer, even though Washington so far 397 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:22,559 away that like, do you really want a guy on 398 00:18:22,599 --> 00:18:26,519 his second contract that you're not sure about already taking 399 00:18:26,599 --> 00:18:28,680 up a bunch of money, Like maybe not, But but 400 00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:31,000 the team teams in that position where it's like we 401 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:33,240 can afford it, we could take to take a crack 402 00:18:33,279 --> 00:18:35,640 on it like that. That's that's what you should be 403 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:36,160 looking at. 404 00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:39,319 Speaker 1: Comingo is the last thing Orlando needs. I don't really 405 00:18:39,319 --> 00:18:40,799 think he doesn't make a ton of it doesn't make 406 00:18:40,839 --> 00:18:43,400 any sense in New Orleans. Yeah, that's like if. 407 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 2: You Utah like, I don't think it doesn't make sense. 408 00:18:45,759 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: I guess if you thought, and like if you could, 409 00:18:49,519 --> 00:18:51,720 I don't know. Actually maybe if it was Kaminga and 410 00:18:51,799 --> 00:18:54,720 picks for Colin Sexton. Is that something you're why. 411 00:18:54,519 --> 00:18:57,599 Speaker 2: Don't we revisit the market and stuff like with well. 412 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,319 Speaker 1: I mean the money getting there would be. So you're 413 00:18:59,319 --> 00:19:01,359 trying to keep Butler or Draymond Green and Steph Will 414 00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:03,599 incorporating what is Larry Marketing on the books for forty 415 00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:05,240 plus million next year around there? 416 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,079 Speaker 2: Right, let me I'll pull it up all your talk. 417 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,519 Speaker 1: I mean that at that point is all right there 418 00:19:08,519 --> 00:19:11,000 You're going to buddy heel than Kaminga and Moody and 419 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,839 I like that just to make all the math work or. 420 00:19:13,839 --> 00:19:18,599 Speaker 2: Isthing Marketing's forty six next year, So that's like impossible 421 00:19:19,079 --> 00:19:21,319 because Kaminga the base of your compensation is like, well, 422 00:19:21,319 --> 00:19:22,039 how do we do this? 423 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 1: And there's like there could be like maybe something more 424 00:19:25,759 --> 00:19:28,759 complicated where it's what if Phoenix is pivoting and they 425 00:19:28,799 --> 00:19:30,839 want Kaminga but they have to duck the second apron 426 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,119 to acquire someone to a sign and trade, and so 427 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,680 it's like what's the other team and then what do 428 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,799 you want out of Phoenix. I mean, like Ryan Dunn, 429 00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:39,200 I don't know why they would get so. 430 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 2: I mean, Kevin Rant would be fine. Can you can 431 00:19:41,799 --> 00:19:43,240 we make that math work? 432 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,599 Speaker 1: Ken if you want to give up Draymond Green or 433 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:46,359 Jimmy Butler. 434 00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 2: Well so that was the other thing. Uh, it seems 435 00:19:49,759 --> 00:19:53,799 like all those contra all those contracts Kerr, Butler, Green 436 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,440 and stuff, they're all lined up to expire the same year, 437 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,880 which like, so it means you're not trading. Obviously you're 438 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:04,119 not trading Steph Butler. That's gonna be hard guy to 439 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,640 trade Draymond. You're not gonna trade Draymond would be the 440 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,920 guy though if you're like, we need another salary, because 441 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,480 for a long time it was, well that's what Wiggins 442 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,759 is for, and then they traded Wiggins. Now it's just 443 00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:15,440 there's not you don't have that mid tier salary to 444 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,400 to mid high high mid tier salary to move and 445 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,720 they're just not gonna break up this core, which is 446 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,440 which is fine. They're probably not gonna win a championship anyway, 447 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,519 but like that would make things a lot easier if 448 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:28,799 you were willing to move Butler or Green. I just 449 00:20:28,839 --> 00:20:31,160 don't I think they've all decided like we're just not 450 00:20:31,279 --> 00:20:31,720 gonna do. 451 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:34,279 Speaker 1: That, right. I mean, I guess if because they've been 452 00:20:34,319 --> 00:20:36,640 mentioned with Giannis, which I don't view them. I mean, 453 00:20:37,079 --> 00:20:38,880 they can include four first round picks, but I don't 454 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,759 view them as a real threat with Giannis. You would 455 00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:43,240 need someone to and if it's Giannis, you suck it 456 00:20:43,319 --> 00:20:45,200 up and trade anyone but Steaph sure, I think yeah, 457 00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:48,240 but you would need someone to really really value Jimmy 458 00:20:48,279 --> 00:20:51,000 Butler or Draymond Green to send the Bucks more stuff. 459 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:52,519 So I don't view them as a Yiannis threat. I'm 460 00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:54,200 assuming you're I. 461 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 2: Just don't think they can have the best. The best 462 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:57,240 offer with them. 463 00:20:57,079 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: I'll have to do is like best James Harden slash 464 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:00,559 Jimmy Butler impression. 465 00:21:00,599 --> 00:21:03,759 Speaker 2: To do it right, Yeah, Giannis would have to say 466 00:21:03,759 --> 00:21:06,680 like I and I'm going to Golden State, make it happen. 467 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,960 And just like with San Antonio and Houston out there, 468 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,240 like why would he why would he take that posture 469 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:14,480 number one? And then too like that still doesn't mean 470 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,400 that that's like feasible, you know. 471 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,519 Speaker 1: Okay, so here's I don't think this is feasible. But 472 00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:21,880 this team, let's just say they're looking to duck the 473 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,359 second apron and they're really doing a full on reset 474 00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:28,720 following an injury to Jason Tatum. You send Jonathan come in, 475 00:21:28,759 --> 00:21:31,880 go to Brooklyn still okay, and you send all your 476 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:34,720 first round picks to Boston. Is that enough to get 477 00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:35,720 you Derek White? Oh? 478 00:21:35,799 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 2: I was hoping you would say Derek White. He would 479 00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:41,039 be so perfect Dan on Golden State. 480 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: You know what you do, because you're then below the 481 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,240 first apron, you then go give Al Horford the non 482 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,119 tax payer MIID level. That's I think I just made 483 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,079 the perfect Warriors offseason. 484 00:21:50,839 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 2: That I would be doing backflips. Al Horford could be 485 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,039 forty five and I'd be like, great, signing at the 486 00:21:56,039 --> 00:21:56,559 mid level. 487 00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:00,599 Speaker 1: He by the way, I don't know how much they're 488 00:22:00,599 --> 00:22:01,960 gonna be want to pay him, and this might be 489 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,880 a way to transition out of the minga stuff. Well, actually, 490 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,640 let me start here. How important to them do you 491 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,039 think it's going to be to stay beneath the first 492 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,400 apron to like, do you think they're gonna want to 493 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:13,960 access that non taxpayer. 494 00:22:13,599 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: Min That's the thing, Like if they they if they 495 00:22:16,079 --> 00:22:18,079 use the mid level, they're hardcapped at the first Apron. 496 00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:22,920 I I don't think it's that important to them. I 497 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:25,519 think what they're gonna I think they're okay with getting 498 00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:28,839 hard capped if that just I don't know who that 499 00:22:28,839 --> 00:22:31,240 player is gonna be. If it's like, would that be 500 00:22:31,279 --> 00:22:32,559 a pay raise for Al Horford? 501 00:22:32,759 --> 00:22:35,559 Speaker 1: But like if you had if you had it available, 502 00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:37,119 it's like you can give him more than the mini 503 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,680 m l E. Like because Al Horford would be He's 504 00:22:40,759 --> 00:22:42,400 not like when you're looking for someone like kind of 505 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,000 bruise and like really crash the glass. That's not what 506 00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:47,240 Al Horford does. But he would be so perfect for this. 507 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,319 Speaker 2: Or he would work with Draymond and Jimmy Butler up front, 508 00:22:50,319 --> 00:22:52,559 which is like there's like three guys that that's true 509 00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:55,319 of and none of them are gettable except maybe Al Horford. 510 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,319 So yeah, I I don't know. I think that they 511 00:22:59,759 --> 00:23:02,640 they have to sort of be aggressive and be just 512 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,960 because of the age of the core. So like we're 513 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:07,039 if that means getting hard capped, and you get the 514 00:23:07,079 --> 00:23:09,440 guy you think is the perfect fit, like a Horford, 515 00:23:09,519 --> 00:23:12,920 then then you just you do it right, like well, otherwise, 516 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,119 like what's the point here? You're leveraged on the present, 517 00:23:16,319 --> 00:23:18,319 like to an extreme degree. As it is, you're about 518 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,359 to lose the best prospect you've had in a really 519 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,160 long time because you didn't play him enough. So it's 520 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,480 not like we're thinking of five years ahead. 521 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: So look, we solved it. So we'll send Moody and 522 00:23:28,599 --> 00:23:30,759 or send whatever salary plus coming out of Brooklyn to 523 00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:32,319 make the math work for Golden State. And how many 524 00:23:32,319 --> 00:23:34,519 first round picks? Honestly, are you giving up? If if 525 00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:37,279 it meant getting Derek White, would it be? So the 526 00:23:37,319 --> 00:23:39,519 picks that they could trade, by the way, are twenty six, 527 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,759 twenty eight, and twenty thirty. It's the good half of 528 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,599 where it's like twenty Yeah, it only if it lands 529 00:23:45,599 --> 00:23:47,640 one to twenty and then twenty thirty two. 530 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 2: I mean, you don't want to McHale Bridge as this, 531 00:23:53,759 --> 00:23:56,759 but I think White as Actually, I think White's better 532 00:23:56,759 --> 00:23:57,359 than Bridges. 533 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:05,079 Speaker 1: I'm here to tell you, sir, that is unequivocally correct. 534 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,319 Speaker 2: I'm given I'll go three. I think i'd give up three. 535 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if Boston would do that. New ownership 536 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,799 maybe makes it a wild card, but like he is 537 00:24:12,839 --> 00:24:15,160 the guy where I view as the players, I don't 538 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,039 want to see the move if they're really gonna like 539 00:24:17,079 --> 00:24:19,279 he might actually be above jail and Brown. For me, 540 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,440 I agree, it's just because of the contract. Jalen Brown 541 00:24:22,519 --> 00:24:24,200 is so good, but Jalen Brown's number two. And then 542 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,240 it's like you really try to move Drew and christops Porzingis. 543 00:24:27,279 --> 00:24:29,000 But I don't know if Porzengis has any value. So 544 00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:31,240 it was just you were talking. I was just like, 545 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,400 they have a lot of picks, and if Boston was 546 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,079 really just like we're taking a gap year, and like 547 00:24:36,079 --> 00:24:38,680 if they're getting three first round picks and just out 548 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,119 of the second apron entirely and you could still make 549 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,960 maybe they want Moody. It's just like a cheaper replacement 550 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,359 they're getting out of. They're cutting costs by moving Drew 551 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,680 or Porzingis anyway, so it doesn't have to be we're 552 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,880 just getting off of Derek White's salary entirely, but three, 553 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,119 if the return is three first round picks and Moses 554 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,640 Moody for Derek White, my guess is that Boston probably 555 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,480 doesn't do it, But I wonder if it warrants a conversation. 556 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,319 Speaker 2: Do you think what do you think the value around 557 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:07,640 like because we like romanticize or overvalue like shorting the 558 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,319 Bucks or the Suns or whatever. Do you think those 559 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:13,799 twenty eight and thirty Warriors first round picks, if they're 560 00:25:13,839 --> 00:25:17,000 like lightly protected, would be viewed as like, oh my god, 561 00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:19,559 those are like crown jewel assets. They have to be right. 562 00:25:19,759 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: That's why, honestly, if if they didn't need like to 563 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,480 get super complicated to make the money work, because Danny 564 00:25:25,519 --> 00:25:28,240 Ainge thinks that way, like he's probably contacting them this 565 00:25:28,279 --> 00:25:30,279 summer about a lowry marketing trade to try and make 566 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:31,680 like short those picks. 567 00:25:31,839 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, like all this is gonna be done 568 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,799 in two years. Like that's just that it's written in stone, 569 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,759 like the way the contracts are structured, and like you 570 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,319 just lost Kaming, You're gonna lose kaminga. So it's like 571 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,920 is Brandon, Pajemski and White they gonna gona like you 572 00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,599 don't really have like the pipeline is not you know, 573 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,000 not it's not totally barren, Like Pajemsky's a good player, 574 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,200 like he's a starter, but other than that, it's like 575 00:25:56,279 --> 00:26:00,240 there's no easy way out for the Warriors after this 576 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,400 this core is done. So like maybe so then in 577 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,359 the end and answer your question, like maybe it's not 578 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,759 three picks if both of those are involved, right, you're 579 00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:10,720 just getting you're buying the Warriors dip like at the 580 00:26:10,759 --> 00:26:12,880 exact perfect time if you're trading for those picks. 581 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm assuming twenty twenty six has very little 582 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,880 value if you're sending the Warrior someone good, So then 583 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,440 you're looking at those three out years as if you 584 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:23,440 can get two of those with very light to no 585 00:26:23,559 --> 00:26:27,200 protections on it, that's interesting. Derek White just feels like, 586 00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:29,759 if I'm Boston, I'm not doing it because I'm just 587 00:26:29,799 --> 00:26:32,359 gonna hold out. But I think you would if if 588 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,000 the picks are on the day, I would think you 589 00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:35,319 absolute lyast think about it. 590 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you gotta think about it. I don't know. 591 00:26:38,759 --> 00:26:41,319 Speaker 1: I just saying it's Brooklyn, Like Brooklyn has to give 592 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,319 up that one. You need Brooklyn to want Jonathan Committa, 593 00:26:44,319 --> 00:26:46,480 Like you're just if you end up signing and trading 594 00:26:46,519 --> 00:26:50,000 Jonathan Comena into Brooklyn's cap space, it's just like it's 595 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,759 it's not disastrous if it's that type of construction, but 596 00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:55,759 it's would Brooklyn even give Boston, Like they're not gonna 597 00:26:55,759 --> 00:26:57,920 give it first for Jonathan Commandita they have any like 598 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,240 bad first in the pipeline Brooklyn is drafting. Oh they're drafting, 599 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,960 So maybe it's like they could send Boston twenty six 600 00:27:06,039 --> 00:27:08,519 and or twenty seven as part of a cominga sign 601 00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:10,680 and trade, and like Boston's like, look at all these 602 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,400 first round picks we got for Derek White. I'm part 603 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,119 of me wonders if I'm looking at this through too 604 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,720 much of a Warrior's lens, But it does. The value 605 00:27:17,759 --> 00:27:22,000 feels like if you remove the I think, if you're 606 00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:23,960 not a Celtics fan, and if a Celtics fan said 607 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,079 this is stupid, and we have Celtics fans on our discord, 608 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,480 yeah sure, but the value feels like if the Warriors 609 00:27:28,519 --> 00:27:30,160 are putting three first round picks on the table, the 610 00:27:30,279 --> 00:27:33,039 value and they're you're not taking back any shitty money, 611 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,680 The value feels about right, especially if you can get 612 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,480 another first round er, like one of those low ends 613 00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:38,160 out of Brooklyn. 614 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 2: I mean, I think you probably just signed double sign 615 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,079 and trade Kaminga to the Nets for D'Angelo Russell and 616 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,920 then later flipped D'Angelo Russell for Andrew Wiggins, and then 617 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,400 you're just back back where you're comfortable. I feel like 618 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,000 that's the way to do it. It's worked, it worked 619 00:27:51,039 --> 00:27:51,599 once before. 620 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: I so, but I think we mapped out the perfect 621 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,640 Warriors offseason. Just that's a trade for Derek White and 622 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:57,799 sign al Horford. 623 00:27:57,839 --> 00:28:01,880 Speaker 2: Poach of Boston's rotation. 624 00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: Would you expect them? This is the Draymond Green extension. 625 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,359 If he signs it, he'd be age thirty seven. It's fine, 626 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,480 nothing for him, right? I mean, what align with what Jimmy, 627 00:28:10,519 --> 00:28:12,279 Butler and Steph are doing? I believe, But. 628 00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 2: Isn't he already lined up? I keep I kept having 629 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,759 the thought that they're they're all equals. 630 00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:18,599 Speaker 1: Oh maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong. Then on his way. 631 00:28:18,599 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 2: I know Kurr, Butler, and Steph are all done after 632 00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:25,519 twenty six twenty seven, as is Draymond right now, except 633 00:28:25,519 --> 00:28:27,359 he has a His twenty six twenty seven is a 634 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:28,000 player option. 635 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,079 Speaker 1: He would decline it as part of the extension, and 636 00:28:30,079 --> 00:28:31,960 he would run through twenty seven twenty eight. 637 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,519 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't, I'm not. I don't think I'm doing that. 638 00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:36,160 And if I am doing that, it's because I plan 639 00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:38,319 to trade him and I want that salary number on 640 00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:41,480 the books after Curry. What I mean, we're getting way 641 00:28:41,519 --> 00:28:42,960 too far ahead. But do you think Curry's just going 642 00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:46,039 to retire after twenty six, twenty seven, like I hope not. 643 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:47,160 I hope not too. 644 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: But I mean I hope him and Al Horford and 645 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,759 and Lebron are in Golden State in their fifties, just 646 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,799 win in thirty seven games or something, but playing entertaining basketball. 647 00:28:56,319 --> 00:28:58,599 Speaker 2: But staying the pickleball scene, just. 648 00:28:58,519 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: Like Al Horford, Steph and like Lebron to an extent, 649 00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:04,039 he's just so polarizing. It's it's cool to see these 650 00:29:04,079 --> 00:29:06,720 players age and still just be so impactful. I think 651 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,680 in the Warrior's case, it's uncomfortable that Steph means so 652 00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:12,240 much to them, but it's incredible that he still does. 653 00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:14,400 So I hope he's not retiring after this current deal. 654 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I don't know, And maybe he'll come 655 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,759 back and take a start doing the Tim Duncan Dirk 656 00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:21,640 thing where he's just taking way less I mean seventy 657 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:22,720 five million dollars, right. 658 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,559 Speaker 1: I think that's what's interesting about this is not really 659 00:29:25,559 --> 00:29:28,319 directly related to the Warriors about any Kevin Durant trade, 660 00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:30,000 is that if he's willing to sign with you, like 661 00:29:30,799 --> 00:29:32,559 we're just assuming he gets the max, or is he 662 00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:34,480 actually going to be making less money on his next deal, 663 00:29:34,519 --> 00:29:36,680 which makes trading for him more palatable. 664 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know that. That's another wrinkle, Like honestly 665 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,079 like that just I think Jimmy Butler was the right get. 666 00:29:45,799 --> 00:29:48,119 But I do still wonder what might have happened if 667 00:29:48,119 --> 00:29:50,039 it had been Durant instead, if that that was a 668 00:29:50,039 --> 00:29:51,680 pretty interesting sliding doors moment. 669 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I just go back to the value 670 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:56,799 you gave up to get Jimmy. Feels like it was 671 00:29:56,839 --> 00:29:58,799 going to be less than you had to give up 672 00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:01,640 to get Durant. That is, I think the drop off 673 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,920 between those two, and they're completely different players, is I 674 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,079 would rather still I'd have Jimmy plus the ability to 675 00:30:07,119 --> 00:30:09,839 trade four first round picks this summer, right, Kevin Durant 676 00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:12,359 plus however many picks you could trade. Is there anything 677 00:30:12,359 --> 00:30:13,440 else on them that we haven't taught? 678 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:13,559 Speaker 2: Like? 679 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: Is there we didn't really mention? Brandon Pajemski is sort 680 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:18,759 of we were throwing picks on the table for all 681 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:21,359 these players, but it's like, does Brandon Pajemski help you 682 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,400 get something that you need? Or is he too valuable 683 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:24,440 to this team right now? 684 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,039 Speaker 2: Well, that's another one. I think, yes, he would help 685 00:30:28,079 --> 00:30:30,839 you get something you need. But he's also too valuable, 686 00:30:30,839 --> 00:30:32,720 and that's kind of part of the problem because he 687 00:30:32,799 --> 00:30:36,279 doesn't he doesn't consistently address like what the issues are, 688 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,640 just his unwillingness to shoot his you know, all of 689 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,880 his shot creation issues. Like I think, I think he's 690 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,920 a piece that they still pretty clearly believe in like 691 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,319 a lot, like I do think the Warriors tend to have, like, well, 692 00:30:48,359 --> 00:30:51,640 ownership believes in this guy, but the coaching staff thinks differently. 693 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,119 That's the kaminga case, Like I think Pajemski, like everybody 694 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,799 is like, no, no, no, he's the keeper. He plays 695 00:30:57,839 --> 00:31:00,240 winning basketball and blah blah blah, he'll get better better. 696 00:31:00,839 --> 00:31:03,039 But that's also the reason that like he could get 697 00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:05,119 you something if you wanted to trade him, is because 698 00:31:05,119 --> 00:31:07,400 I think a lot of teams feel that way. So yeah, 699 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,480 I don't think he's gone anywhere. Trade discussions get a 700 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,039 lot more interesting if you start like including him in 701 00:31:14,079 --> 00:31:14,480 some of them. 702 00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:16,359 Speaker 1: I think, would you trade him for Derek White? 703 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, Derek White's just way better. It's not close. 704 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,079 Speaker 1: Oh man, so anything else? Quinton Post, how many All 705 00:31:23,079 --> 00:31:24,160 Star Games will he be making? 706 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,640 Speaker 2: For seven Boiler It did hurt my heart that he 707 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,720 really was just correctly played off the floor in that 708 00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:32,880 Wolve series. But that's fine. He's a rookie. They've already 709 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:34,599 gotten more value out of that draft slot than they 710 00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:36,440 should have, so we'll take it that way. 711 00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:38,319 Speaker 1: I do think as a final thought on the Warriors, 712 00:31:38,319 --> 00:31:40,799 what's encouraging about the Butler trade? And even they acted 713 00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:42,599 early with Dennis Shruder, it felt like they were trying 714 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,000 to just you know, straddle a middle ground until they 715 00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:47,359 were forced to go in for Jimmy Butler. It does 716 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,119 seem like, Okay, they understand, like we need to be 717 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,319 aggressive to capitalize on these next two years that Steph 718 00:31:53,319 --> 00:31:55,440 has least after this, which if you're a fan, I 719 00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,119 think is encouraging. I don't know what trade opportunities will 720 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,319 rise for them. We cam Johnson just feels like the name, 721 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,240 but we've all just assumed that Brooklyn wouldn't mind having 722 00:32:04,319 --> 00:32:05,839 john cominga which. 723 00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's uh. I don't know what the percentages are 724 00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:11,200 on that, but it's close to a coin flip, I'd 725 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,400 say at best, because you just if you're Brooklyn, why 726 00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:16,759 this can't be the guy that you're like been waiting 727 00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:17,920 forever for Johnathan. 728 00:32:18,599 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: We didn't do most likely to be traded for them? 729 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,599 Is it just oh god? 730 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, but like you could, is it cominga or the 731 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,000 field like and I would still pick Kaminga. It just 732 00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:27,480 has to be. 733 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,119 Speaker 1: We didn't talk much about their own like Kevan Looney 734 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,160 or GP two. You just said they'd probably be okay 735 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,400 bringing those guys back if they have to. But you 736 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,519 in ideal world, maybe they're coming back, but you're also 737 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:38,480 upgrading on those spots for sure. 738 00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're bringing both of them back. They're 739 00:32:40,519 --> 00:32:44,400 like Looney is like approaching like franchise icon status and 740 00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:47,440 win those weird like role player ways, you know. Yeah, 741 00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:49,400 and really GP two is kind of that way too, 742 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,319 but maybe you pay them less. I mean, what did 743 00:32:51,319 --> 00:32:53,720 they They both made around seven. I think Looney made 744 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,720 eight last year GP two made note. 745 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: I can tell you GP that neither of those guys 746 00:32:58,759 --> 00:33:00,640 are getting that. I would be sure lest the Warriors 747 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,039 are doing it is like we want trade ballast for 748 00:33:03,119 --> 00:33:03,839 middle exactly. 749 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 2: That's the only reason they get raises. 750 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:05,839 Speaker 1: Now. 751 00:33:05,839 --> 00:33:07,359 Speaker 2: I think they should both be back on like one 752 00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:10,480 plus ones or just whatever. Make it a line. Yeah, 753 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,400 one plus one would set it up so that they 754 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,039 come off when everybody else does in the old old 755 00:33:15,119 --> 00:33:17,200 dude's core. So maybe that's the way to go. 756 00:33:17,759 --> 00:33:19,599 Speaker 1: Big off season Golden State. I think, man, this all 757 00:33:19,599 --> 00:33:21,920 season is gonna be wild. So many they have. They 758 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,839 have four first round picks to trade, and I'm going 759 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,480 to guess that they are going to trade at least 760 00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:25,720 one of. 761 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,599 Speaker 2: Them would be let's hope. So they gotta they gotta do. 762 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:30,720 This isn't This isn't Cleveland or some other teams where 763 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,279 it's like, just run it back, you're good. I think 764 00:33:32,319 --> 00:33:34,319 I think they pretty clearly need some help. 765 00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:36,519 Speaker 1: Are you ready to take this out of here? Yeah? 766 00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 2: Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Make sure you're rating, reviewing, subscribing, 767 00:33:40,119 --> 00:33:43,119 leaving good comments, thumbs up in the youtubes, all that stuff. 768 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,039 Tell your friends, tell your enemies, join our discord. Thanks 769 00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:48,920 for that. In YouTube, the podcast description until then shouts 770 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:50,480 Franklin lo Kin Apologies, Jared A.