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<v Speaker 1>Hello everybody, and welcome to a brand new episode of

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<v Speaker 1>Second Take Cinema, coming at you from the Glorious Impla

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<v Speaker 1>Film's headquarters in sunny South End on Sea. As always,

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<v Speaker 1>I am your host, Jamie Evans, joined by Rory Jocelyn.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello everyone, and making a welcome return to the show

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<v Speaker 1>for the first time since his appearance in season one.

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<v Speaker 1>It's mister Dave Gardner. Hello, Welcome back to the show. Dave.

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<v Speaker 2>Good to be back. Thank you for having me. Guys.

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<v Speaker 1>Today, we're turning back time quite a distance. This is

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<v Speaker 1>like what now, like seventy years ago, nineteen fifty one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yees, seventy three, seventy three.

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<v Speaker 1>Years Christ to the Endless March of Time. Yeah, that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going back to nineteen fifty one for our first

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<v Speaker 1>time reviewing an Alfred Hitchcock movie. Can't believe we've waited

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<v Speaker 1>this long to do it because I love Alfred Hitchcock.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, it's time for a second take for Strangers

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<v Speaker 1>on a Train. So Strangers on a Train, as I said,

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<v Speaker 1>it was a nineteen fifty one movie directed by Alfred Hitchcock.

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<v Speaker 1>It stars Farley Granger, Ruth Roman and Robert Walker and

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<v Speaker 1>was made for a budget of one point six million

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<v Speaker 1>dollars and earned seven million dollars at the box office.

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<v Speaker 1>In twenty twenty one, the film was selected for preservation

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<v Speaker 1>in the United States National Film Registry by the Library

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<v Speaker 1>of Congress as being culturally, historically, or esthetically significant. Upon release,

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<v Speaker 1>Strangers on a Train received mixed reviews, with Variety praising it,

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<v Speaker 1>saying performance wise, the cast comes through strongly. Granger is

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<v Speaker 1>excellent as the harassed young man innocently involved in murder.

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<v Speaker 1>Roman's role as a nice, understanding girl is a switch

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<v Speaker 1>for her, and she makes it warmly effective. Walker's role

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<v Speaker 1>has extreme colour, and he projects it deftly. Conversely, Bosley

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<v Speaker 1>Crowther of The New York Times criticized the film, saying,

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<v Speaker 1>mister Hitchcock again is tossing a crazy murder story in

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<v Speaker 1>the air and trying to con us into thinking that

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<v Speaker 1>it will stand up without support. Perhaps it will be

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<v Speaker 1>those in the audience who will likewise be terrified by

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<v Speaker 1>the villain's darkly menacing warnings and by mister Hitchcock's sleekly

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<v Speaker 1>melodramatic trick. But for all of that, his basic premise

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<v Speaker 1>of fear fired by menace is so thin and so

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<v Speaker 1>utterly and convincing that the story just does not stand

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<v Speaker 1>in contrast. However, modern reviewers are overwhelmingly positive on Rotten

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<v Speaker 1>Tomatrow's The film has an approval rating of ninety eight percent,

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<v Speaker 1>with the consensus stating a provocative premise and inventive set

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<v Speaker 1>design lights the way for Hitchcock's diabolically and entertaining masterpiece.

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<v Speaker 1>Roger Ebert called Strangers on a Train a first rate thriller,

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<v Speaker 1>and he considers it one of Hitchcock's top five movies.

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<v Speaker 1>He added the film to his Great Movies list, and

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty twelve, The Guardian praised the film's writing. Hitchcock's

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<v Speaker 1>study of the guilt that tanks the human condition is

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<v Speaker 1>just one cinematic master stroke after another. I believe, certainly

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<v Speaker 1>when I did film studies, this is one of the

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<v Speaker 1>films that was like on the curriculum. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>if it still is well.

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<v Speaker 2>I suppose it depends what curriculum you're studying. This one

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<v Speaker 2>isn't on the one that I teach, but Vertigo is

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<v Speaker 2>via Avid Hitchcock, and as part of that then we

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<v Speaker 2>would always say, watch lots of other Hitchcock films and

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<v Speaker 2>this would definitely be one that I would push to

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<v Speaker 2>my students and be like, watch this one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, so Strangers on a Train. Strangers on a Train,

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<v Speaker 1>fucking great film. I first saw.

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<v Speaker 3>This, no opinion on it.

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<v Speaker 1>I first saw this at UNI, you know, in a

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<v Speaker 1>literally like my first week at UNI. They showed this

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<v Speaker 1>in the lecture theater. I'd never seen it. I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know what to expect going into it. Absolutely loved it.

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<v Speaker 1>I was very impressed. Do you remember the first time

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<v Speaker 1>you saw Strangers on a Train, Dave?

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<v Speaker 2>I think I probably saw it at home on a DVD,

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<v Speaker 2>because I do. I do have it on DVD somewhere,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think it was probably whilst I was like

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<v Speaker 2>discovering Hitchcock, so probably watched Rear Window, Psycho and Vertigo,

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<v Speaker 2>and then I was like, I think Strange on a

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<v Speaker 2>Train is one of his most well liked films. But

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<v Speaker 2>it's not like the top top top tier.

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<v Speaker 1>Cparently not considered to be like other than Ebert apparently. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I read it's not usually considered to be like top ten,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's very good.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's one of his best though. I

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<v Speaker 2>really love Strangers on the Train as well, but yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think when you think of the classic ones, it

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<v Speaker 2>would be Psychoveria, Window, north By Northwest, when Vertigo, then

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<v Speaker 2>maybe the Birds. It might be like the top five

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<v Speaker 2>for a lot of people. But yeah, I put this

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<v Speaker 2>in my top five. Pow or the first Hitchcock film

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<v Speaker 2>you saw it was probably yeah, yeah, I reckon it

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<v Speaker 2>would have been yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Rory. I think this is a first for you,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I'll be honest, like, for some reason, I've just

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<v Speaker 3>never watched much Hitchcock. And it's not out of choice.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not because I'm trying to avoid it, just by

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<v Speaker 3>a weird happenstance. Of all the black and white shit

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<v Speaker 3>I've been watching, Hitchcock just hasn't come up, which is unusual,

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<v Speaker 3>I think.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I maybe it's just me, but because I

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<v Speaker 1>really like Hitchcock, but I think black and white directors,

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<v Speaker 1>and I jumped straight to Hitchcock every time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was funny one because I can't imagine most

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<v Speaker 2>of his films are black and white, and if you

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<v Speaker 2>if you add them all up, but he does obviously

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<v Speaker 2>have quite a lot of color ones and stuff that

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, Psycho is a bit of a

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<v Speaker 2>weird one because he'd been making color films for ages

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<v Speaker 2>and then decided to go black and white for that one.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that was clearly a directorial choice.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well I think a budget choice was a budget choice,

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<v Speaker 2>to be honest. Yeah, which is weird. Yeah, that bla

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<v Speaker 2>black and whe would have been considerable.

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<v Speaker 1>That was I don't know if you know, Sorry, but

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<v Speaker 1>spoiler for an episode we've already done. We did Roman

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<v Speaker 1>Holiday recent Oh okay.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason Roman Holiday is black and white was they

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<v Speaker 1>basically said to the director, you can either shoot it

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<v Speaker 1>on location in Italy, yeah, and it's got to be

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<v Speaker 1>black and white, right, or you can shoot it in

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<v Speaker 1>the studio and it can be color. And he thought

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<v Speaker 1>it was more important to shoot on location than to

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<v Speaker 1>shoot in color.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think that was the right choice. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I really liked Roman Holiday.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a great film, A bit different to this, Yes.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so I was surprised watching it again, had no

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<v Speaker 3>expectations going in. Didn't I really know much about the genre.

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<v Speaker 3>You told me it was a thriller. Yeah, there's a

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<v Speaker 3>there's a couple of elements that I think could have

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<v Speaker 3>been done a little bit better. But other than that, overall,

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<v Speaker 3>it's a very good film. Certainly kept me gripped to

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<v Speaker 3>the end. We've seen this sort of film before and since,

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<v Speaker 3>mostly not not before this point, but this sort of

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<v Speaker 3>story has been retold several times, not not just in

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<v Speaker 3>terms of its own remakes, but people doing a similar idea.

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<v Speaker 3>But this one tells it very in a particularly well

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<v Speaker 3>built way. It structures it very well, I think. So

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<v Speaker 3>I enjoyed it.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's nice.

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<v Speaker 1>We all liked it so, just as just to basically

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<v Speaker 1>some of the plot for anyone who doesn't realize, this

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<v Speaker 1>is about two men. Guy who is a tennis player

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<v Speaker 1>who is stuck in a marriage that he's hoping to

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<v Speaker 1>extricate himself from so he can get with his new squeeze, Anna,

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<v Speaker 1>and she's a senator's daughter because once his tennis career

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<v Speaker 1>has done, he wants to move into politics.

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<v Speaker 2>But they saying sorry just to interrupt, but like there's

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<v Speaker 2>one of the detectives says to him, oh, do you

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<v Speaker 2>never want to turn pro as a tennis player? So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm like, so what is this where like people go

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<v Speaker 2>and watch amateur tennis players and like get he gets

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<v Speaker 2>written about in the newspaper. I'm like a tennis player.

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<v Speaker 1>I was thinking that, but then I remembered that in America. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because you're right in Britain, that would never happen, Like

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<v Speaker 1>unless you're fucking playing, you're getting the news America college.

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<v Speaker 4>Sports, yeah, yes, college football is actually basket. I wonder

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<v Speaker 4>you'd never go and watch a university or college.

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<v Speaker 2>I did wonder if as well. This was like sort

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<v Speaker 2>of pre the age of people having TVs in the home,

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<v Speaker 2>so there was just like nothing to do. So she

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<v Speaker 2>was like, well, we might as well go watch like

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<v Speaker 2>a good local tennis player. I think America helps as well.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>They we have local newspapers in the UK, like the

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<v Speaker 3>South End Deco. Yeah, it's not the same like when

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<v Speaker 3>they have local news, and America local news is the

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<v Speaker 3>state news. Yeah, so you end up with a.

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<v Speaker 2>Lot which is that bigger than of the UK's.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so there will be like the big paper of

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, Illinois, m M. But it's only in Illinois. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's still the big paper because it's not to

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<v Speaker 3>a town, it's it's to a whole state, Whereas in

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<v Speaker 3>the UK you either get tiny little rag from local

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<v Speaker 3>town like yeah the Sun all the times, or something

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<v Speaker 3>like that, which is nationwide anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>Sorry, Right, So guy gets on a training and we'll

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<v Speaker 1>talk about pacing later, but this film gets straight into it. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he gets on a train and accidentally pure circumstantial bumps

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<v Speaker 1>feet with a guy named Bruno Anthony played by Robert Walker.

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<v Speaker 1>Quick thing. I didn't know this. You know, Robert Walker

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<v Speaker 1>died the same year this came out. No, killed himself.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's really Yeah, suffered terribly with depression and

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<v Speaker 1>took an overdose. Yeah, apparently was divorced twice by the

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<v Speaker 1>age of thirty. Oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, he's great in this. I think he's like, by

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<v Speaker 2>far and away, the best thing in this movie.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Died in nineteen fifty one adverse reaction to prescription drugs. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>This is his second to last film, right, his actual

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<v Speaker 1>last film. He died halfway through filming and they had

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<v Speaker 1>to use some footage from this film, oh, to finish it.

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<v Speaker 1>I was, I was because I watched it, and I

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<v Speaker 1>was I was, like, this guy must have had a

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<v Speaker 1>big career, because he's really good.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm surprised. I didn't know that. I must have read

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<v Speaker 2>that before, and it's just completely left my mind because like, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I've seen this film a few times and definitely would

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<v Speaker 2>have looked him up afterwards say, oh, okay, right.

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<v Speaker 1>So he plays Bruno Anthony, and by a chance meeting,

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<v Speaker 1>these two people meet and Bruno proposes to Guy the

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<v Speaker 1>perfect murder, which is a frequently occurring Hitchcock trope, which

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<v Speaker 1>is that he proposes that the key reason anyone gets

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<v Speaker 1>caught in a murder is motive. So what if two

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<v Speaker 1>complete strangers who by chance met on a train swap

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<v Speaker 1>murders and proposes that he kills Guy's wife and Guy

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<v Speaker 1>murders his father. I think because he wants to get

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<v Speaker 1>his trust fund or something like that.

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<v Speaker 2>Dad is really yeah, there's I think his dad wants

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<v Speaker 2>him to get a job, doesn't he.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>He mentions that is, you know, he wants me to

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<v Speaker 3>go and work nine till five, work my way up

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<v Speaker 3>in a company. Someone like me.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yes, Because he goes, can you even imagine

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<v Speaker 1>someone like that? Yeah, And the film sort of goes

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<v Speaker 1>from there. I don't want to spoil anything for anyone

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<v Speaker 1>who hasn't seen it. I know it's been out for

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<v Speaker 1>seventy three years, but one of the things we hope

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<v Speaker 1>to do on this show has encouraged people to watch

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<v Speaker 1>older films. I mean, let's start with the performance. Is

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<v Speaker 1>It's as good a place as any to start. Robert

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<v Speaker 1>Walker is fantastic in this Yeah, he somehow manages to

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<v Speaker 1>be do you know what? I thought he was almost

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<v Speaker 1>a proto Norman Baits in the sense that he manages

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<v Speaker 1>to be both. There's a feminine soft quality to him.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh for sure. Yeah. The way he likes was always

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<v Speaker 2>checking his nails, isn't he and things? Yeah, I'd say

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<v Speaker 2>it's more than slight. I think it is. Yeah, he

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<v Speaker 2>is flaming, I think in this film.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but he's very sinister still.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the bits I really like is when they're

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<v Speaker 1>at the tennis match and all the crowd are going

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<v Speaker 1>left right, left, right, and he's just staring.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah straight, and there's a great zoom in on him,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't there. Yeah? Yeah, that's brilliant.

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<v Speaker 1>But I don't think there was really any bad performances

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<v Speaker 1>in this guy Farley's Farley Granger is pretty good. I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like the gay subtext goes both ways with the characters.

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<v Speaker 1>Some people don't. Some people think it's just Bruno.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I'll be honest, I didn't pick up on the

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<v Speaker 3>stuff from guys, I'm intrigued to hear what you guys are.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, you watch that first scene really closely. I've never

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<v Speaker 1>looked at either of you guys the way he's looking

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<v Speaker 1>at Bruno, but he's really studying his face and he

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<v Speaker 1>loiking down at his lips thought while he's talking.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, no, I just figured that that was, like, who's

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<v Speaker 3>this freak talking to me? He never actually tells him

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<v Speaker 3>to piss off? So which at some point when certainly

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<v Speaker 3>when he's like hey, it starts revealing that he knows

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<v Speaker 3>about his private life, like just piss off. Yeah, So

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<v Speaker 3>maybe there is that. Maybe the reason he didn't tell

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<v Speaker 3>him to piss off was that he was kind of

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<v Speaker 3>intrigued in a romantic sense or or an attraction sense.

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<v Speaker 1>I did.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't catch that when I watched it, but it

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<v Speaker 3>kind of makes sense because that is one of the

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<v Speaker 3>things that I didn't get in this film. So I

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<v Speaker 3>was like, why isn't he just tending the funk off?

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<v Speaker 3>Like and then he's just he's like, oh, let's go

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<v Speaker 3>on a subway car and chat about your dad? Why?

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<v Speaker 2>Who is Yeah? Bruno is very charming though, isn't he

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<v Speaker 2>and like he he kind of he pushes it a

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<v Speaker 2>bit too far, isn't he? And then he kind of

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<v Speaker 2>acknowledges he goes me and my big mouth kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>So he does he just sort of skirts a line.

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<v Speaker 2>I think he's intriguing enough as a character. That guy

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<v Speaker 2>is like, okay, go. I think what I would say

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<v Speaker 2>is that that the Farti Granger character and and his

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<v Speaker 2>love interest, those to me are the most like boring

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<v Speaker 2>parts of this film.

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<v Speaker 3>They don't get a lot to do.

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<v Speaker 2>No, well, they you know, sort of Farley Granger sort

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<v Speaker 2>of just simpers a bit, doesn't he and kind of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, goes, oh, there's bad stuff's happening. Whereas like

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<v Speaker 2>all of the queer characters or the sort of the

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<v Speaker 2>murderous characters are the interesting ones like bruno AND's younger sister,

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<v Speaker 2>who's played by Hitchcock's daughter. She's great, Like she's like

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<v Speaker 2>relishing the murder aspect of it.

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<v Speaker 3>Happens now, like people love those true murder podcasts and

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<v Speaker 3>stuff like that. Yeah, it much comes across as like

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<v Speaker 3>a proto type of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, sure, but I think like that's what's so great

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<v Speaker 2>about this film is that everybody is interested in that stuff, and.

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<v Speaker 1>Bruno says that to the two old women. Yes, everyone's

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<v Speaker 1>interested in this stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, everyone's potentially a murderer given the right circumstances.

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<v Speaker 2>That's kind of you know, And there's there's a sort

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<v Speaker 2>of slight, sort of fight club element to it. Isn't

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<v Speaker 2>as well that like Bruno is kind of guy, a

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<v Speaker 2>guy if he was let off the leash, like guy

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<v Speaker 2>does what he says, he wants to ring his wife's neck.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So I would say in terms of the script, most

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<v Speaker 3>of the script is quite solid, certainly around the Bruno

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<v Speaker 3>Anthony character, but the character of guys, certainly in the

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<v Speaker 3>first half he gets a little bit better in the

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<v Speaker 3>second half the script. For the script for Guy in

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<v Speaker 3>the first half, he just basically goes into scenes and goes,

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<v Speaker 3>what do you mean? What does that what? Yeah? And

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<v Speaker 3>it's like, does this guy not have any sort of

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<v Speaker 3>motivations or anything of himself?

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<v Speaker 1>He's just furthering the other guy.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I think if anything, if the script needed any tightening,

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<v Speaker 3>that's where it needed tightening was giving the main character,

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<v Speaker 3>at least in the initial phase, something more of a

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<v Speaker 3>personality of their own.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, more of an edge. Yeah, I think, Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>think Hitchcock is way way more interested in the Bruno character.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah you can tell. Yeah, yeah, the way the way

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<v Speaker 3>that Bruno is lit, the way that he's filmed, the

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<v Speaker 3>way that he is performed, the way he is directed. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>the way he's written. Everything is really this film about Bruno. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>it's kind of watch weird. It's at one point I

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<v Speaker 3>almost got a cable guy ish sort of vibe to

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<v Speaker 3>the character, Like he's not as zany as Jim Carey's character,

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<v Speaker 3>but when he's certainly when he's like waving his way

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<v Speaker 3>into guy's life, meeting his family and all of the

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<v Speaker 3>people that he knows, I was like, this is very

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<v Speaker 3>like obviously cable Guy is very similar to this, because

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<v Speaker 3>Cable Gay came like fifty years later, forty odd years later.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, as I was watching, I was like, oh, intrigued,

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<v Speaker 3>Like it's interesting to see where sort of the origins

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<v Speaker 3>of some of these slightly more pop culture films where

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<v Speaker 3>they come from in classic films. Yeah, because I'm fairly

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<v Speaker 3>certain I don't know this as a fact, but I'm

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<v Speaker 3>fairly certain the cable guy that idea that he insidiously

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<v Speaker 3>weaves into the Family probably stems.

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<v Speaker 2>From this, Yeah, possibly. I mean, it's a great setup,

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<v Speaker 2>isn't it for a story?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 2>I think. But what I quite like about this is

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<v Speaker 2>it it doesn't really feel like a classic film. It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't have any sort of pomposity or like respectaful respectableness

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<v Speaker 2>about it. I quite like that this is It feels

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<v Speaker 2>a bit sort of camp and trashy, and I like

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<v Speaker 2>that about this film. It reminds me a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't know if it's just because of the

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<v Speaker 2>fair ground element of it, but it reminds me a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit of things like Final Destination and Scream in

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<v Speaker 2>the way that you've got like the really good catty

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<v Speaker 2>dialogue and people joking about murder and things like that,

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<v Speaker 2>and I just think that's like so much fun. It's

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<v Speaker 2>really really.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a lot of the dialogue for Bruno Anthony in particular,

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<v Speaker 3>I noticed watching a few films from the same sort

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<v Speaker 3>of era. I watched The Men, which was only a

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<v Speaker 3>year before this, I think nineteen fifty, Marlon Brando's first

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<v Speaker 3>feature film. A lot of the dialogue in that. Certainly

346
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<v Speaker 3>the first half is incredibly witty, incredibly clever, and obviously

347
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<v Speaker 3>things like twelve Angry Men. A lot of the interplay

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<v Speaker 3>in the dialogue is again very witty, very clever. We

349
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<v Speaker 3>don't get a lot of that nowadays in modern script writing,

350
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<v Speaker 3>like they replace it more with sort of the Marvel

351
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<v Speaker 3>style bathos humor because I suppose that's flavor of the month.

352
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<v Speaker 3>But just having that interplay between people in the dialogue,

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<v Speaker 3>I kind of missed that. Yeah, watching all these old

354
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<v Speaker 3>films and going, man, I want some of this in

355
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<v Speaker 3>my new film. It's like, where is this cool in

356
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<v Speaker 3>a play going?

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<v Speaker 1>Now? I think you have to go to the indie

358
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<v Speaker 1>market to get that now. Yeah, I think you're not

359
00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:26.799
<v Speaker 1>getting that from Hollywood at the moment.

360
00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Now.

361
00:18:27.000 --> 00:18:29.759
<v Speaker 3>Hollywood are interested in big bang boom explosions.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe I think it's it's like when you see a

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<v Speaker 2>script that's written as well as this, it's just hard

365
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<v Speaker 2>to do like these are. There's a reason why we're

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<v Speaker 2>still talking about a film like this seventy three years

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<v Speaker 2>after the fact, because it's really good.

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<v Speaker 1>The Bruno Anthony character. The thing I hadn't remembered because

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<v Speaker 1>it's been maybe ten years since I last saw this,

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<v Speaker 1>So the thing that I hadn't remembered watching it back

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<v Speaker 1>today is I didn't realize that there's not really anything.

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<v Speaker 1>There's no sympathetic element to Bruno. Really, he's a spoilt,

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<v Speaker 1>rich kid. His motives are entirely self self motivated. I

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<v Speaker 1>hadn't remembered that. I thought my memory had been that

375
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<v Speaker 1>his dad was more like actually abusive, and that's why

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<v Speaker 1>he wanted his dad gone. So that was interesting to

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00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.200
<v Speaker 1>watch and be like, oh.

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<v Speaker 2>Still likable though I think.

379
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<v Speaker 3>Pure on charisma.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, likable in the way that villains are likable in

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<v Speaker 1>the sense that they're not likable. They'd be a terrible

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<v Speaker 1>person to know in real life, but they are thoroughly

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<v Speaker 1>entertaining to watch. Likable in the way Anthony Hopkins is

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<v Speaker 1>likable as Annibal Left. Ye. Yes, you want to watch

385
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:53.599
<v Speaker 1>him and you hope he stays on the screen or

386
00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:57.279
<v Speaker 1>Heath led Her as the joker. You want him, but

387
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<v Speaker 1>you wouldn't want to know him in real life. You

388
00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:01.440
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't actually sit on the C two C and meet

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<v Speaker 1>this guy.

390
00:20:01.960 --> 00:20:05.920
<v Speaker 2>I think you'd be could find at parties Bruno, Yeah,

391
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:07.160
<v Speaker 2>if he was in a room full of people.

392
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<v Speaker 3>And then when you're not choking old women, yeah, yeah.

393
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, I mean you would be like can you

394
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:12.279
<v Speaker 2>believe that guy?

395
00:20:12.559 --> 00:20:17.559
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, choke that. So Bruno ends up going through with

396
00:20:17.640 --> 00:20:19.880
<v Speaker 1>his murder and he kills Miriam, who is.

397
00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:22.440
<v Speaker 2>She's also great as well. Sorry, that's the other one.

398
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.839
<v Speaker 2>There's sort of the catty camp character. She is like

399
00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:29.079
<v Speaker 2>in a way. Obviously she has to die for the plot,

400
00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:30.960
<v Speaker 2>but I miss her so so much.

401
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:35.319
<v Speaker 1>She's comically villain villain.

402
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.519
<v Speaker 2>It's like I've got another man's baby and the two guys,

403
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:42.440
<v Speaker 2>but she's still flirting with Bruno.

404
00:20:43.440 --> 00:20:48.359
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I've decided not to divorce you now because the money,

405
00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:49.920
<v Speaker 1>she goes, I need the money for the lawyer.

406
00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:52.799
<v Speaker 3>He hands, He then hands the body goes, I'm not

407
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:54.480
<v Speaker 3>getting lawyer anyway.

408
00:20:54.559 --> 00:21:01.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, glassy, Yeah, that's everything I like about as well,

409
00:21:01.599 --> 00:21:04.960
<v Speaker 2>because obviously she's a promiscuous character. I mean we can

410
00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.839
<v Speaker 2>get into like the whole aspect of does Hitchcock like

411
00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.559
<v Speaker 2>hate women? Does he hate promiscuous women? Does he hate

412
00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:14.640
<v Speaker 2>gay men? All of these kinds of things. But I

413
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:18.079
<v Speaker 2>like that they've kind of not cast. I don't know,

414
00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:20.119
<v Speaker 2>like if you read that script, you'd be like, okay, right,

415
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:24.359
<v Speaker 2>So she's she's a tramp, as the sister calls it,

416
00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:26.279
<v Speaker 2>and she goes he's had a tramp, so you'd expect

417
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:28.319
<v Speaker 2>her to be this kind of like ultra sort of

418
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:31.480
<v Speaker 2>sex bomb popping on the screen. And she looks like

419
00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:34.799
<v Speaker 2>this sort of like librarian kind of type, isn't she.

420
00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:37.960
<v Speaker 2>But she's just like the d obviously.

421
00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:40.920
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And to be honest, she's offering it. The blokes

422
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:45.039
<v Speaker 3>are going yep, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so he was

423
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:45.480
<v Speaker 3>playing it.

424
00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think he would get along really well.

425
00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:50.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they're the same type of villain as each other.

426
00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:52.240
<v Speaker 3>If anything, he should have made the deal with her

427
00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:54.240
<v Speaker 3>because she would have followed through.

428
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:55.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they would have just said a great time.

429
00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:59.039
<v Speaker 1>So he ends up stalking her into this carnival, doesn't he?

430
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:01.440
<v Speaker 1>In the film end up coming back to this carnival

431
00:22:01.480 --> 00:22:01.960
<v Speaker 1>at the end.

432
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:04.279
<v Speaker 2>That's the final destination three of it.

433
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:07.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I might be reading too much into this,

434
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:11.400
<v Speaker 1>but I noticed that I've never noticed this before. So

435
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:13.519
<v Speaker 1>she gets on a boat with her two young lovers

436
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.160
<v Speaker 1>and goes off into a tunnel of love and he

437
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:21.160
<v Speaker 1>follows behind. I noticed that his boat is named Pluto.

438
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, doesn't have a name, nothing does.

439
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:26.279
<v Speaker 1>I just don't think the camera focuses on it.

440
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:29.119
<v Speaker 3>I don't think it did at least the one that

441
00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:32.079
<v Speaker 3>definitely didn't have They might have had a name on

442
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:34.839
<v Speaker 3>the back of it. I don't remember, but he's had

443
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:36.519
<v Speaker 3>Pluto on the back. But then when they come out

444
00:22:36.559 --> 00:22:38.960
<v Speaker 3>of the Tunnel of Love, he has a little flag

445
00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:41.119
<v Speaker 3>that says Pluto on the front of his boat. They

446
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.200
<v Speaker 3>definitely didn't have a little flag with a name on

447
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:44.079
<v Speaker 3>the front of their boat.

448
00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, I was just wondering if Pluto had been chosen

449
00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:51.759
<v Speaker 1>deliberately because it's the Roman god of the underworld and

450
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:54.720
<v Speaker 1>the dead. Oh okay, and the fact that this literally

451
00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:58.960
<v Speaker 1>immediately precedes her death and it's her killer that gets

452
00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:01.039
<v Speaker 1>in the boat could be a coincidence.

453
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:01.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

454
00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:03.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't think it is, though, because you told me

455
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:08.119
<v Speaker 3>that Hitchcock specifically picked what trash was in the in

456
00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:10.480
<v Speaker 3>one of the gutters for one of the shots, and

457
00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:12.240
<v Speaker 3>he was like, no, I want to personally pick every

458
00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:15.119
<v Speaker 3>piece of trash that's in this gutter that doesn't sound

459
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:16.599
<v Speaker 3>like a man, and goes what's on the boat, gives

460
00:23:16.599 --> 00:23:17.680
<v Speaker 3>a ship, just put it in the wall.

461
00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:20.759
<v Speaker 2>It's a very functoriously relaxed.

462
00:23:20.880 --> 00:23:23.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's a very fun quote from Hitchcock. I don't

463
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:24.839
<v Speaker 1>know if you've ever seen it. I don't remember it

464
00:23:25.000 --> 00:23:28.680
<v Speaker 1>word for word, but it's about how he One of

465
00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:32.319
<v Speaker 1>his biggest problems with cinema at the time was he

466
00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:37.720
<v Speaker 1>felt people didn't pay enough attention in scenes where characters eat,

467
00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:42.880
<v Speaker 1>as in the directors didn't choose carefully what food the

468
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:46.720
<v Speaker 1>actors should have because he believed the food should represent

469
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:51.279
<v Speaker 1>the character. So like he's got a bit in one

470
00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:53.599
<v Speaker 1>of his films. I thought it was this film, but

471
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:56.200
<v Speaker 1>I didn't remember seeing it, unless it's in the longer

472
00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:02.079
<v Speaker 1>cut where they order food. Andrew now orders chocolate ice cream,

473
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:08.279
<v Speaker 1>a really fancy steak, and French fries because he's hedonistic.

474
00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.400
<v Speaker 1>He only cares about himself, whereas Guy barely looks at

475
00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:14.519
<v Speaker 1>the menu and just picks the first thing on the menu,

476
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.759
<v Speaker 1>which is a hamburger. And there's a whole quote from Hitchcock,

477
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:20.480
<v Speaker 1>which it's kind of funny given that Hitchcock himself famously

478
00:24:20.599 --> 00:24:23.440
<v Speaker 1>very much like food, where he's talking about why he

479
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:26.559
<v Speaker 1>thinks it's so important and nothing takes him out of

480
00:24:26.599 --> 00:24:29.359
<v Speaker 1>a film more while he's watching a film going that

481
00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:31.720
<v Speaker 1>character wouldn't eat that, Yeah, yeah, that would be part

482
00:24:31.759 --> 00:24:32.400
<v Speaker 1>of their diet.

483
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, I just like that everything, and they're quite again,

484
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:39.440
<v Speaker 2>what I like about this film what I like about

485
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Hitchcock as well. He's not a subtle filmmaker, but all

486
00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:45.839
<v Speaker 2>of the things that you see in his films kind

487
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:49.079
<v Speaker 2>of they'll repeat the same thing about that character. If

488
00:24:49.079 --> 00:24:51.920
<v Speaker 2>that character is, like you say, hedonistic, then they'll always

489
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:54.279
<v Speaker 2>make sure that, Okay, well they're doing this thing, how

490
00:24:54.279 --> 00:24:56.559
<v Speaker 2>can we get that character trait into that thing again?

491
00:24:57.000 --> 00:24:58.799
<v Speaker 2>And he keeps doing it and doing it and doing it,

492
00:24:58.839 --> 00:25:01.440
<v Speaker 2>and I yeah, I like it, but also it keeps

493
00:25:01.519 --> 00:25:03.559
<v Speaker 2>up with that consistency with the character. Yeah, I mean,

494
00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Bruno doesn't really got on much of a journey, does

495
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:08.440
<v Speaker 2>he suppose? But then that's the villain, isn't it. Most films,

496
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:09.720
<v Speaker 2>they kind of tend to stay the same.

497
00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:13.759
<v Speaker 1>He does the really classic thing as well, of he

498
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:17.559
<v Speaker 1>nearly always frames shots. Whenever he's got two or more

499
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:21.839
<v Speaker 1>actors in a shot, the villainous actors are nine times

500
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:23.880
<v Speaker 1>out of ten on the left of the frame right

501
00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:27.839
<v Speaker 1>or when not that, when they're not, it's the character

502
00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:31.640
<v Speaker 1>who is weakest in the scene is on the left.

503
00:25:31.960 --> 00:25:34.279
<v Speaker 1>So the only time I can think of that Bruno

504
00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:37.079
<v Speaker 1>is on the right is right at the beginning, when

505
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:40.799
<v Speaker 1>he first meets Farley Granger. And that's because, as you said,

506
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:44.319
<v Speaker 1>Rory guys on the back foot in that whole first bit, everything,

507
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:48.559
<v Speaker 1>every line of dialogue he's got is a question. Yeah,

508
00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:53.000
<v Speaker 1>and Bruno is just spitting out knowledge, and it's all

509
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:55.640
<v Speaker 1>these boastful statements, isn't it. Like I've got lots of theories.

510
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:57.400
<v Speaker 1>I think we should do this, we should do that.

511
00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Like you say, that's not subtle, that's filmmaking trope number three.

512
00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:06.519
<v Speaker 1>But Hitchcock uses it so well that I think you

513
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:13.440
<v Speaker 1>subconsciously internalize it and it just adds to what you're building.

514
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:15.440
<v Speaker 2>And it's always fun. That's the other thing that I

515
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:18.440
<v Speaker 2>like about Hitchcock. And I think we were not on

516
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:20.359
<v Speaker 2>a podcast. We were just discussing this the other week.

517
00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:22.839
<v Speaker 2>Like one of my issues with some of the the

518
00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:26.920
<v Speaker 2>filmmakers of today that gets celebrated naming no names, where

519
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:29.400
<v Speaker 2>everyone's like, oh, you know, he's a genius. He's just

520
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:32.599
<v Speaker 2>like yeah, but there's no sense of humor to their work,

521
00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:35.000
<v Speaker 2>whereas like I always feel like, even in Hitchcock's you

522
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:38.160
<v Speaker 2>know and just you recount recounting the plot a minute ago, Jamie,

523
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.039
<v Speaker 2>it just occurred to me that this is a film

524
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:43.279
<v Speaker 2>which features the murder of a pregnant woman. Like that

525
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:44.759
<v Speaker 2>is dark, isn't it you.

526
00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.960
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's only if she's actually pregnant, because she's she's not. Well,

527
00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:53.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying she's definitely not. She lies about everything, sure,

528
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:56.160
<v Speaker 3>So like the question is is, like it could be Yeah,

529
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:58.920
<v Speaker 3>as far as we're aware she's a pregnant woman, but

530
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:03.519
<v Speaker 3>she's checking two other guys. It's abandoned, seems to me.

531
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:05.200
<v Speaker 3>And she got the money off by saying I need

532
00:27:05.200 --> 00:27:07.160
<v Speaker 3>a lawyer and then going haham not getting lawyers.

533
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:07.839
<v Speaker 2>Fuck you.

534
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:09.240
<v Speaker 1>So it's probably all bullshit.

535
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Maybe maybe, but they never sort of even put they

536
00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:15.079
<v Speaker 2>don't really plant that seed of doubt conclusively. But anyway,

537
00:27:15.680 --> 00:27:17.799
<v Speaker 2>the point is, you know, he has these films which

538
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:19.640
<v Speaker 2>have like very very dark subject matter in him, but

539
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:23.279
<v Speaker 2>they're still really really funny. Yeah, it's really good fun

540
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:27.680
<v Speaker 2>film for me. I love the fun and the trashiness

541
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:29.400
<v Speaker 2>of this film in a way. I like that it

542
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.279
<v Speaker 2>isn't a film. It doesn't take itself seriously. This film,

543
00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:34.759
<v Speaker 2>I don't think, and it's all the more the better

544
00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:35.519
<v Speaker 2>for it. I think.

545
00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, while I was doing research just to I

546
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:41.240
<v Speaker 1>think shine some light on Hitchcock as a director. While

547
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:43.480
<v Speaker 1>I was doing some research for this film, I came

548
00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:47.880
<v Speaker 1>across a piece that Jimmy James Stewart had done because

549
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:51.960
<v Speaker 1>he collaborated with Hitchcock, I think four or five. Yeah,

550
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:54.519
<v Speaker 1>he was talking about rope and rope. I don't know

551
00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:56.279
<v Speaker 1>if you know, Rory. Rope's got this gimmick in it

552
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:58.400
<v Speaker 1>where it's designed to look as if it were shot

553
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:01.960
<v Speaker 1>in one on one on broken take. In reality, there

554
00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:04.440
<v Speaker 1>were only ten minute takes because that was literally the

555
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:09.119
<v Speaker 1>well ten minutes was Birdman's digital but back then ten

556
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:11.440
<v Speaker 1>minutes was the maximum amount of film real you could

557
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:13.359
<v Speaker 1>run through the camera before it ran out.

558
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:15.640
<v Speaker 2>And then there's these weird bits where the camera just

559
00:28:15.680 --> 00:28:17.920
<v Speaker 2>sort of decided after ten minutes to do a close

560
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.359
<v Speaker 2>up on somebody's back. They change the reil and then

561
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:23.599
<v Speaker 2>they will go with it.

562
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:27.839
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but there was a quote from Jimmy Stewart where

563
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:30.480
<v Speaker 1>he was saying that so he actually didn't think rope worked.

564
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.400
<v Speaker 1>He actually thought the gimmick didn't work in it. But

565
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:36.319
<v Speaker 1>he was saying, if there was any director in Hollywood

566
00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:39.039
<v Speaker 1>who would try that just for the fun of it,

567
00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:41.799
<v Speaker 1>because there was no need, There's no plot relevant reason

568
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.160
<v Speaker 1>that rope has to be shot that way. Now, yeah,

569
00:28:44.240 --> 00:28:47.000
<v Speaker 1>it would be Hitchcock. He called him hitch Yes, I

570
00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:48.039
<v Speaker 1>think they were real.

571
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:48.359
<v Speaker 3>Buddy.

572
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:50.359
<v Speaker 1>Buddy was like, yeah, if anyone's going to try it,

573
00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:51.319
<v Speaker 1>it'd be hitch Yeah.

574
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:51.720
<v Speaker 3>I think so.

575
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:53.839
<v Speaker 2>I like, yeah, I mean you said the guy made

576
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:56.440
<v Speaker 2>like sixty films, so I think after a certain point,

577
00:28:56.519 --> 00:28:58.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, just to make things interesting for

578
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:01.279
<v Speaker 2>himself in to kind of be in that position where

579
00:29:01.279 --> 00:29:02.559
<v Speaker 2>you're going to go, I don't know if this is

580
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:03.680
<v Speaker 2>going to work. I'm just going to give it a

581
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:05.799
<v Speaker 2>go and they go, Nope, that didn't work. Never mind anyway,

582
00:29:05.799 --> 00:29:08.000
<v Speaker 2>on to the next one. But that is that kind

583
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:10.519
<v Speaker 2>of that that spirit and that joy of discovery as

584
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.319
<v Speaker 2>a filmmaker, which yeah, it just makes him way way more.

585
00:29:13.640 --> 00:29:16.039
<v Speaker 3>That's actually interesting think. Sorry, I just want to say,

586
00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:20.240
<v Speaker 3>like you mentioning, that is the spirit of discovery. But

587
00:29:20.359 --> 00:29:24.000
<v Speaker 3>this was not a small budget production, and obviously it's

588
00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:27.359
<v Speaker 3>not a small budget creator. It's Hitchcock. Yeah, and he

589
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.880
<v Speaker 3>was well within his prime during his point. Maybe that's

590
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.599
<v Speaker 3>something that is also very different between you know, Hitchcock

591
00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:38.119
<v Speaker 3>specifically and sort of filmmakers of today. A lot of

592
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:43.279
<v Speaker 3>the big budget filmmakers often they follow a pattern movesly

593
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:45.920
<v Speaker 3>they're told they have to buy producers or by studios.

594
00:29:46.039 --> 00:29:49.279
<v Speaker 3>As we've said multiple times, You've said it even today, Jamie.

595
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:51.680
<v Speaker 3>You know, in order to get a certain amount of

596
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:55.799
<v Speaker 3>types of script or certain types of experimentation, you have

597
00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:58.559
<v Speaker 3>to go indie now because it just doesn't come out

598
00:29:58.599 --> 00:30:01.519
<v Speaker 3>of big budget studios. It's kind of interesting that you can't.

599
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Take the risk.

600
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:04.960
<v Speaker 3>You know, if you spent half a billy but Hitchcock

601
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:08.039
<v Speaker 3>making Avengers. Well, so I suppose it wasn't making you

602
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:11.480
<v Speaker 3>didn't need a billion to make the film. But no,

603
00:30:11.559 --> 00:30:13.599
<v Speaker 3>but he probably wouldn't when you were just for inflation,

604
00:30:13.759 --> 00:30:15.359
<v Speaker 3>one point three million back then was.

605
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Probably a lot of money.

606
00:30:16.599 --> 00:30:19.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I mean we could do

607
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:22.000
<v Speaker 2>the summers and find out. I don't think this would

608
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:24.440
<v Speaker 2>be like the biggest budget movie. It's not like Ben

609
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:27.200
<v Speaker 2>hur is it. But yeah, I mean these guys like

610
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Hitchcock and all these directors at this time are making

611
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:32.440
<v Speaker 2>at least one film a year, if not two, sometimes

612
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:34.920
<v Speaker 2>three or four films a year. So there is an

613
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:38.119
<v Speaker 2>element of like, fuck it, you know, let's just give

614
00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:38.400
<v Speaker 2>this a go.

615
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:40.759
<v Speaker 1>So according to what I did in my read in

616
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:45.880
<v Speaker 1>my research, this film was a comeback of sorts for Hitchcock,

617
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:48.319
<v Speaker 1>not in the sense that he hadn't gone anywhere, because

618
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:50.359
<v Speaker 1>like you said, he'd basically been making at least one

619
00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:52.720
<v Speaker 1>film a year for about twenty years at this point.

620
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:59.240
<v Speaker 1>But apparently his late forties output Hitchcock himself wasn't very

621
00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:02.559
<v Speaker 1>interesting and was much more just like running a paint

622
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:05.759
<v Speaker 1>by numbers mode and was just sort of like costume

623
00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:07.960
<v Speaker 1>people would bring him things and go this, He'd go, yeah, yeah,

624
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:12.319
<v Speaker 1>whatever sort of thing. And with this film, apparently he

625
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:16.039
<v Speaker 1>sort of got his second wind, I guess, and was

626
00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:19.000
<v Speaker 1>much more like I said, apparently he actually made Bruno's

627
00:31:19.039 --> 00:31:22.759
<v Speaker 1>tie himself, the lobster tie. Oh okay, he literally to

628
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:25.480
<v Speaker 1>the level of when when Bruno's reaching into the grate

629
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:29.440
<v Speaker 1>for the dropped lighter, yeah, Hitchcock insisted on picking the

630
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:31.680
<v Speaker 1>trash that would be in the grate.

631
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:32.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

632
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:35.119
<v Speaker 1>And I think he did experiment in this, didn't he? He

633
00:31:35.160 --> 00:31:37.000
<v Speaker 1>did the I want to talk about the great shot

634
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:40.240
<v Speaker 1>when Miriam actually gets killed and the whole murder is

635
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:43.599
<v Speaker 1>reflected in the eyeglasses, which is actually a double exposure, right,

636
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:45.480
<v Speaker 1>It's how they had to. I mean, nowadays you'd just

637
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:49.720
<v Speaker 1>green screen it, but they had to do it exposure.

638
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:51.680
<v Speaker 2>And also like how it kind of like warps and

639
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:54.720
<v Speaker 2>distorts as he reaches forward and stuff. That kind of

640
00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:57.599
<v Speaker 2>that perspective of it is mindful. Have you got the budget?

641
00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:00.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, sorry no, Yeah, so you say it's one

642
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:01.880
<v Speaker 3>and a half one point three million.

643
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:03.319
<v Speaker 1>I think that's what I said at the start.

644
00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:05.319
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, so if it's one point three million in

645
00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:09.160
<v Speaker 3>nineteen fifty one, it'd be worth fifteen and a half million.

646
00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Now, oh yeah, so that's a I mean, you don't

647
00:32:11.599 --> 00:32:13.200
<v Speaker 2>get fifteen and a half million films, now.

648
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:13.319
<v Speaker 1>Do you?

649
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:16.119
<v Speaker 2>Not really neither one million or two hundred million.

650
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:20.119
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, but yeah, and obviously this also, if people

651
00:32:20.119 --> 00:32:23.200
<v Speaker 1>don't mind me skipping to the end slightly, the very

652
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:26.119
<v Speaker 1>probably the most well known part of this film, the

653
00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:32.000
<v Speaker 1>carousel sequence, which certainly feels I can't think because I've

654
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:35.039
<v Speaker 1>not seen every Hitchcock film. I haven't seen north By

655
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:37.039
<v Speaker 1>Northwest because I know that's got the very famous crop

656
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:40.759
<v Speaker 1>duster scene that's probably the most but this, for me

657
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:44.119
<v Speaker 1>is probably the most action pact I've seen Hitchcock. Do

658
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:48.319
<v Speaker 1>I mean this I'd forgotten how out of control it goes.

659
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:50.240
<v Speaker 3>Like it is.

660
00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:52.640
<v Speaker 1>You have to suspend your disbelief a little bit, because

661
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:55.119
<v Speaker 1>why would they build it with the ability to go

662
00:32:55.359 --> 00:32:55.880
<v Speaker 1>that fat?

663
00:32:55.960 --> 00:32:58.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this was the fifties. They just didn't give a shit,

664
00:32:59.000 --> 00:32:59.880
<v Speaker 2>did they. Yeah.

665
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:01.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, if it's someone, if it can spin it over

666
00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:04.640
<v Speaker 3>a one million, we're not going to use it. It's

667
00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:06.799
<v Speaker 3>fine over engineer that ship.

668
00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:10.279
<v Speaker 1>The memory i'd got wrong, The memory I had got wrong.

669
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:12.880
<v Speaker 1>I could have if you'd have asked me before I

670
00:33:12.920 --> 00:33:16.279
<v Speaker 1>rewatched this this morning, if you'd have said to me, Jamie,

671
00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:19.720
<v Speaker 1>what's the ending of strangers on a train? And bet

672
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:23.200
<v Speaker 1>fifty quid on it? I would have swore down that

673
00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:29.759
<v Speaker 1>it's Guy and Bruno end up under the carousel, right,

674
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:34.079
<v Speaker 1>not the random guy. In my head, it was Guy

675
00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:37.119
<v Speaker 1>crawling to turn it off and Bruno's coming after him,

676
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:41.720
<v Speaker 1>sort of like the end of Terminator ending. Honestly though,

677
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.720
<v Speaker 1>in my mind that was the ending, And then I

678
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:45.559
<v Speaker 1>watched it and was like.

679
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:48.720
<v Speaker 3>Oh, maybe that's the two guy. Yeah, maybe it's the

680
00:33:48.720 --> 00:33:51.759
<v Speaker 3>two minutes in the other version. No, it's I've remembered

681
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.200
<v Speaker 3>it wrong. But it looks great, doesn't it. It's even

682
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:57.039
<v Speaker 3>now I'm older, I can see the trick they've used

683
00:33:57.599 --> 00:34:00.720
<v Speaker 3>where they deliberately under cranked the camera. When they play

684
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:02.200
<v Speaker 3>it at full speed, it looks faster.

685
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:04.680
<v Speaker 2>There's a great shot of the old guy, you got

686
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:08.760
<v Speaker 2>him underneath, and then you've got the wood spinning around,

687
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:10.719
<v Speaker 2>and then you can see the people in the background

688
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:14.920
<v Speaker 2>as well. It's kind of those three planes of whatever

689
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:17.320
<v Speaker 2>you record it, yeah, yeah, and draw you into it.

690
00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:18.679
<v Speaker 3>But that was real, though, wasn't not?

691
00:34:18.840 --> 00:34:22.599
<v Speaker 1>That was real? So Hitchcock has he came out and

692
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.320
<v Speaker 1>said that the ferris wheel wasn't going to the face wheel,

693
00:34:25.400 --> 00:34:29.280
<v Speaker 1>the carousel wasn't going as fast as it looks. It

694
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:31.360
<v Speaker 1>was still going fast, and the guy still would have

695
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:34.440
<v Speaker 1>probably died if he just stuck his head up. But

696
00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:36.480
<v Speaker 1>they under cranked the camera.

697
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:38.320
<v Speaker 2>And he wasn't famous, so it didn't really matter.

698
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, he was an actual carnival but he wasn't. He

699
00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:45.360
<v Speaker 1>was an actual carnival worker who when they told the

700
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:48.199
<v Speaker 1>circus they were using what they wanted to do, he went, yeah,

701
00:34:48.199 --> 00:34:51.239
<v Speaker 1>I'll do that, and Hitchcock was like, well, that saves

702
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:52.159
<v Speaker 1>us paying a stunt man.

703
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:54.239
<v Speaker 3>That's why they gave him the gravitas of when he

704
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:56.440
<v Speaker 3>first steps forward and he goes.

705
00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:56.880
<v Speaker 1>I'll do it.

706
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:01.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, yeah.

707
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:03.400
<v Speaker 3>You know what though, that guy's the fucking hero of

708
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:06.960
<v Speaker 3>the film. Yeah yeah, because if he didn't stop the carousel,

709
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.840
<v Speaker 3>all the kids that have died when it all broke apart.

710
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:14.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah you know, so you know what that guy say.

711
00:35:14.119 --> 00:35:16.679
<v Speaker 3>They want not a single fanfare for him. But after

712
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:19.639
<v Speaker 3>he's done it, though, they're just like, hey, well done

713
00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:20.320
<v Speaker 3>for the.

714
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:23.119
<v Speaker 1>Punching the guy who's now dying in the caves where

715
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:27.039
<v Speaker 1>Bruno just throws that kid as well, that's insane.

716
00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:28.239
<v Speaker 2>You don't love that character?

717
00:35:29.679 --> 00:35:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, I do often fantasize about just throwing kids onto a.

718
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:36.440
<v Speaker 3>Just a little prat.

719
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:38.920
<v Speaker 1>Gone from me?

720
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:40.360
<v Speaker 3>Is that why you're on a list?

721
00:35:40.599 --> 00:35:45.079
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I really enjoyed this film. I Hitchcock's a

722
00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:49.440
<v Speaker 1>director who I've constantly been meaning to see more of

723
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.800
<v Speaker 1>his output. I've probably seen. I bet you I've only

724
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:54.159
<v Speaker 1>seen four Hitchcock films.

725
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Have you seen Real Window?

726
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:56.119
<v Speaker 1>No?

727
00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:59.719
<v Speaker 2>So that I think is the one, and I think

728
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:04.440
<v Speaker 2>I was listening to an interview with Bill Hayder the

729
00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:06.599
<v Speaker 2>other day and he was talking about how he'd recently

730
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:08.599
<v Speaker 2>watched Rear Window with his kids, and he talks about

731
00:36:08.639 --> 00:36:09.960
<v Speaker 2>a part in it which is like my favorite part

732
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:13.000
<v Speaker 2>of it and I won't realin but it still just

733
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:15.000
<v Speaker 2>works so well. I think this, I think Strange on

734
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:16.599
<v Speaker 2>the Train works. I think you can show this to

735
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:18.400
<v Speaker 2>a younger audience and they'll be like, oh, yeah, this

736
00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:22.840
<v Speaker 2>is a really squaring or anything entertainment value. It doesn't

737
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:25.840
<v Speaker 2>doesn't drag, No, I don't think and rear window is

738
00:36:26.360 --> 00:36:29.039
<v Speaker 2>just as as tight. Well, it's a great Have.

739
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:29.719
<v Speaker 1>You seen Rebecca?

740
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:30.840
<v Speaker 2>I have seen Rebecca.

741
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:31.880
<v Speaker 1>I really like Rebeccah.

742
00:36:31.960 --> 00:36:32.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

743
00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I got shown that by one of my lecturers, not

744
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:38.239
<v Speaker 1>as part of a UNI thing, as part of I

745
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:42.280
<v Speaker 1>was making my final year film and he said, and

746
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:44.679
<v Speaker 1>we were trying to do something where we wanted this

747
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:48.800
<v Speaker 1>character to be really feared, but they're actually not on

748
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:53.199
<v Speaker 1>screen much. And the lecturer, a guy named Ronnie, great guy,

749
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:54.920
<v Speaker 1>just turned around and he was like, have you ever

750
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:57.559
<v Speaker 1>seen Rebecca? And I said no, And he bought his

751
00:36:57.679 --> 00:37:00.880
<v Speaker 1>own personal DVD copy of Rebecca and gave it to

752
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:04.239
<v Speaker 1>me and he was like, watch this. He went, The

753
00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:07.280
<v Speaker 1>character Rebecca is not in the film.

754
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:08.360
<v Speaker 2>The first Missus de Winter.

755
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she's not in the film, but she overhangs every

756
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:18.039
<v Speaker 1>single second of the film. Yeah, it's great. I love

757
00:37:18.039 --> 00:37:20.760
<v Speaker 1>We're going to do Rebeccah at some point because it's fantastic,

758
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:21.840
<v Speaker 1>delightfully gothic.

759
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:23.960
<v Speaker 3>Hey, he did the original Mister and Missus Smith.

760
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:27.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't think it's the same thing, is it.

761
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:30.159
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I've never seen it, but yeah.

762
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:33.440
<v Speaker 3>It says remade as Missus Smith. I think it is,

763
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.360
<v Speaker 3>so Yeah, let me just double check the story on that.

764
00:37:36.440 --> 00:37:37.920
<v Speaker 3>A couple who have been married for three years are

765
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:40.079
<v Speaker 3>shot to learn that their marriage is not legally valid.

766
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:43.559
<v Speaker 3>I was quite different. Then they just take the neighbor,

767
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:45.320
<v Speaker 3>but actually they've got to kill each other.

768
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but yeah, what did you think seeing this for

769
00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:53.159
<v Speaker 1>a second for another time? Dave any changing opinion? Still

770
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:54.280
<v Speaker 1>love it the same you always have?

771
00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:56.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, No, I think it kind of went up in

772
00:37:56.360 --> 00:38:00.199
<v Speaker 2>my estimation and for me, yeah, like I've probably said,

773
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:03.920
<v Speaker 2>that's already. It is easily one of my top Hitchcock films,

774
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:08.400
<v Speaker 2>I think, Yeah, watching it and and my my only

775
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:10.639
<v Speaker 2>sort of issue with it. I think it would be

776
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:14.880
<v Speaker 2>that Farley Granger guy and AND's character are a bit

777
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:20.719
<v Speaker 2>damp and not as interesting. But then that's fine because

778
00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:24.639
<v Speaker 2>there's the other characters in it are so brilliant that

779
00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:27.199
<v Speaker 2>it just carries it along. Yeah. I just think it's

780
00:38:27.320 --> 00:38:30.639
<v Speaker 2>a great film, a great script, fantastic performances. I love

781
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:34.039
<v Speaker 2>that the sort of the heavy handedness of it. Like

782
00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:36.039
<v Speaker 2>I said, he's not a subtle filmmaker. Like that opening

783
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:38.199
<v Speaker 2>scene where you see guy getting out of his like

784
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:41.360
<v Speaker 2>limo whatever the hell it is, and his shoes and

785
00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:43.880
<v Speaker 2>he's got the guy carrying his luggage. But then you

786
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:45.519
<v Speaker 2>see guy coming out of like the sort of the

787
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:47.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, the old taxi cab and he's you know,

788
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:50.119
<v Speaker 2>got somebody's still carrying his luggage, but you know he's

789
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:53.800
<v Speaker 2>got his shoes aren't as nice. But yet that storytelling

790
00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:55.199
<v Speaker 2>is just all happening.

791
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:57.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, visual storytelling. Yeah.

792
00:38:57.239 --> 00:39:01.239
<v Speaker 1>If you didn't even speak about the recurring doubles theme throughout.

793
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:05.079
<v Speaker 2>This yeah oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah.

794
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:08.159
<v Speaker 1>Like you said, the opening with the two shoes, right

795
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:10.519
<v Speaker 1>down to like Hitchcock's carry in his cameo.

796
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Is getting a double bass. Yeah yeah.

797
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Like it's like you said, he's not subtle, Like he

798
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:16.719
<v Speaker 1>picks a theme and he hammers it.

799
00:39:17.079 --> 00:39:20.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, but everything kind of grows from that. I

800
00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:22.320
<v Speaker 2>think that's really really nice and it kind of makes

801
00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:25.719
<v Speaker 2>you as a like filmmaker. I know you guys will

802
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:28.239
<v Speaker 2>write scripts and direct and stuff as well. It just

803
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:30.039
<v Speaker 2>makes you kind of feel like, yeah, you can just

804
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:32.880
<v Speaker 2>be on the nose with it, like don't try and

805
00:39:32.920 --> 00:39:34.679
<v Speaker 2>be clever, and you kind of go, well, this wouldn't

806
00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:36.840
<v Speaker 2>happen in real life. He's just like you know, if you.

807
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.440
<v Speaker 3>Try and make it too subtle, sometimes either muddy's it

808
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:40.320
<v Speaker 3>or people just miss it.

809
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:42.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you go there, go what was that about? Whereas

810
00:39:42.199 --> 00:39:43.559
<v Speaker 2>you watch Strange in the train, there's.

811
00:39:43.360 --> 00:39:44.800
<v Speaker 3>No you're not gonna sit there and go what was

812
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:45.239
<v Speaker 3>that all about?

813
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:47.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, it's absolutely clear what it is. I think

814
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:50.039
<v Speaker 2>even you know, you don't have to be like a

815
00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:53.199
<v Speaker 2>film academic to kind of get that whole thing of that,

816
00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:55.440
<v Speaker 2>that Bruno is maybe a part of Guy in some

817
00:39:55.480 --> 00:40:02.039
<v Speaker 2>ways and stuff like that. So yeah, it's great film.

818
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:04.639
<v Speaker 3>I haven't really got anything much more to add that

819
00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:07.559
<v Speaker 3>you guys haven't. I thought it was a fantastic film. Again,

820
00:40:07.599 --> 00:40:08.400
<v Speaker 3>hadn't seen it before.

821
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:09.880
<v Speaker 1>This is your first Hitchcock.

822
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:13.880
<v Speaker 3>No second, I've seen The Birds Pride. Oh no third,

823
00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:16.719
<v Speaker 3>I've seen Psycho as well. But yeah, I am surprised

824
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:19.719
<v Speaker 3>at how little Hitchcock I've ended up sitting so far.

825
00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:22.320
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, no, this is a very good one to

826
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:25.719
<v Speaker 3>go for. Yeah, thoroughly enjoyed it. The character of Bruno

827
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:29.400
<v Speaker 3>was fantastic. It's the let's be honest, he's the lynchpin

828
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:35.920
<v Speaker 3>of this film. He's also big shout out to Bruno's mum,

829
00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:36.920
<v Speaker 3>who's brilliant.

830
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:39.599
<v Speaker 2>And that bit, that bit where where she does that

831
00:40:39.679 --> 00:40:42.519
<v Speaker 2>painting and he laughs at it, and then at first

832
00:40:42.559 --> 00:40:44.840
<v Speaker 2>she kind of acts a little bit, doesn't she, and

833
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:47.559
<v Speaker 2>then she kind of joins it. She's really really good. Yeah,

834
00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I really like it.

835
00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:49.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I agree.

836
00:40:49.639 --> 00:40:51.960
<v Speaker 2>Actually, and those those scenes that like are some of

837
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:53.159
<v Speaker 2>my favorite in the whole.

838
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:56.559
<v Speaker 3>Because he laughs at he goes, oh, it's father.

839
00:40:57.079 --> 00:40:59.599
<v Speaker 1>She supposed to be saint something.

840
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.599
<v Speaker 3>But it's clear like a weird maducery. Yeah, she's totally

841
00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:06.519
<v Speaker 3>dement she's nutty as well. That's that she's absolutely not

842
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:09.440
<v Speaker 3>on planet Earth either. Yeah, no, wonder her son is mental.

843
00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:13.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean one thing we haven't sort of discussed.

844
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:14.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if you want to discussed this or not,

845
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:18.679
<v Speaker 2>but like, do we feel that Hitchcock thinks that all

846
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:20.559
<v Speaker 2>gay men are psychopathic murderers?

847
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:22.239
<v Speaker 1>Because here we didn't we didn't discuss that.

848
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:25.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean because obviously in Rope there's again you know,

849
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:28.320
<v Speaker 2>it's never really explicit, is it. But basically, whenever there's

850
00:41:28.320 --> 00:41:31.000
<v Speaker 2>a gay character in Hitchcock film, there'll be the ones

851
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:31.800
<v Speaker 2>doing the murdering.

852
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:37.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, At a certain point the pattern becomes

853
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:40.920
<v Speaker 1>too difficult to ignore. Yeah, because like, like you say,

854
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:44.719
<v Speaker 1>Psycho as well, Like it's a deliberate choice to make

855
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Anthony Perkins this feminized yeah, which didn't work when they

856
00:41:49.400 --> 00:41:51.760
<v Speaker 1>remade it. That's that's like the main thing that makes

857
00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:53.679
<v Speaker 1>the remake of Psychoe not work.

858
00:41:54.159 --> 00:41:56.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm not seen it actually shot for shot one.

859
00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:59.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, it's shot for shites, the same script, yeah,

860
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:04.519
<v Speaker 1>every but instead of boy next Door Anthony Perkins, you've

861
00:42:04.519 --> 00:42:12.239
<v Speaker 1>got grizzled like beard, unshaven playing Anthony playing normal baits

862
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:13.960
<v Speaker 1>and it just doesn't work.

863
00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:17.760
<v Speaker 3>There's something about I mean again, haven't seen a lot

864
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:20.599
<v Speaker 3>of Hitchcock work, so can't be too certain on this,

865
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:23.079
<v Speaker 3>but you guys will obviously be able to support this

866
00:42:23.199 --> 00:42:29.280
<v Speaker 3>or not. Maybe it's not necessarily to do with homosexuality. Again,

867
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:30.920
<v Speaker 3>I've not seen enough of his works to know if

868
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:34.000
<v Speaker 3>that is the theme. Maybe it's just he had a

869
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:38.280
<v Speaker 3>very negative view on effeminate men, which it could be

870
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:41.199
<v Speaker 3>construed the same as being the same thing, but isn't

871
00:42:41.239 --> 00:42:44.559
<v Speaker 3>always necessarily you get very butch gay men, you know, etc.

872
00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:47.840
<v Speaker 3>And very effeminate straight men. But it seemed to me

873
00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:51.559
<v Speaker 3>that whenever he was trying to convey sort of the

874
00:42:51.639 --> 00:42:55.840
<v Speaker 3>darker elements of Anthony, it was you know, oh, look

875
00:42:55.880 --> 00:42:58.960
<v Speaker 3>how effeminate he is with this. Yeah, it doesn't necessarily

876
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:02.320
<v Speaker 3>mean he is gay. It could just be that Hitchcock,

877
00:43:03.199 --> 00:43:06.280
<v Speaker 3>being a man of his era, probably had a very

878
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:08.440
<v Speaker 3>negative view on effeminate men and thought that they were

879
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:09.639
<v Speaker 3>all a bit suspect.

880
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:11.639
<v Speaker 1>That's the other thing, isn't that You do wonder how

881
00:43:11.719 --> 00:43:17.679
<v Speaker 1>much of it is Hitchcock personally being biggoted versus unfortunately

882
00:43:18.360 --> 00:43:20.480
<v Speaker 1>the general times.

883
00:43:21.039 --> 00:43:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm quite biggot it. I think at the time,

884
00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:28.360
<v Speaker 2>homosexuality is seen as being deviant or aberrant, right, so

885
00:43:28.519 --> 00:43:32.079
<v Speaker 2>that kind of thing gets lumped in with other deviants

886
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:35.480
<v Speaker 2>and other aberan behavior like murder. I think that the

887
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:39.360
<v Speaker 2>sort of the redeeming feature in all of this is

888
00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:43.480
<v Speaker 2>that Hitchcock, obviously I think anyway, from watching this film

889
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:48.679
<v Speaker 2>and loves those people. He's interested or fascinated by people

890
00:43:48.719 --> 00:43:53.679
<v Speaker 2>who engaged in taboo behavior, be it homosexuality at the time,

891
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:56.119
<v Speaker 2>or murder, or like incest as well. I mean there's

892
00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:59.079
<v Speaker 2>an incestuous element between Bruno and his mother I think

893
00:43:59.119 --> 00:44:00.760
<v Speaker 2>as well, like the fact that and wants to offer

894
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:02.679
<v Speaker 2>his dad. I always sort of saying he's sort of

895
00:44:02.679 --> 00:44:04.719
<v Speaker 2>coded his queer, but does he want to off his

896
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:06.239
<v Speaker 2>dad to kind of be with his mum, like you've

897
00:44:06.239 --> 00:44:09.840
<v Speaker 2>got that? Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. And Hitchcock's obviously really

898
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:14.719
<v Speaker 2>into sort of psychoanalysis, so I think he does. Ultimately,

899
00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:18.400
<v Speaker 2>any kind of deviant behavior gets punished in a Hitchcock movie,

900
00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:22.360
<v Speaker 2>but that's always the most fascinating and interesting part of it.

901
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:25.719
<v Speaker 2>And the characters that are the best characters in the films.

902
00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:30.039
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think, Yeah, he doesn't. Just he doesn't lionize

903
00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:33.280
<v Speaker 3>them in so much as you know, these sort of

904
00:44:33.320 --> 00:44:35.760
<v Speaker 3>effeminate guys are just like, oh look at this stupid

905
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:39.599
<v Speaker 3>asshole over here. They are the central focus of the films.

906
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:43.000
<v Speaker 3>They're you know, they're they're the bits you remember. Yeah,

907
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:47.639
<v Speaker 3>so it's not dismissive, which usually a hatred would be

908
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:50.679
<v Speaker 3>quite dismissive. Yeah, he spends a lot of time if

909
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:52.920
<v Speaker 3>he does hate them he spends a surprising amount of

910
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:53.719
<v Speaker 3>time on Yeah.

911
00:44:53.760 --> 00:44:56.039
<v Speaker 2>I think I think he was fascinated by it. Yeah.

912
00:44:56.159 --> 00:44:59.679
<v Speaker 2>I think it's that sort of anything that was repressed

913
00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:02.039
<v Speaker 2>or or taboo in society at the time. Those are

914
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:04.840
<v Speaker 2>the things that seemed to be his the juiciest part

915
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:05.920
<v Speaker 2>of his films.

916
00:45:06.159 --> 00:45:08.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. He just likes pushing boundaries, doesn't he.

917
00:45:08.840 --> 00:45:11.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, Yeah, I mean, you know, I wonder I

918
00:45:11.719 --> 00:45:14.960
<v Speaker 2>wonder if if he'd been making films now, if Yeah,

919
00:45:14.960 --> 00:45:17.239
<v Speaker 2>he'd do away with the Farley Granger character and just

920
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:21.360
<v Speaker 2>make it all about Bruno. Yeah. I just I wonder

921
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:26.280
<v Speaker 2>if the guy character would be himself equally kind of

922
00:45:26.599 --> 00:45:30.239
<v Speaker 2>have you know, he wouldn't be as squeaky clean. Yeah,

923
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:32.280
<v Speaker 2>and I know like that he says at the start,

924
00:45:32.280 --> 00:45:35.079
<v Speaker 2>I'd like to wring her neck or whatever he says.

925
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:38.119
<v Speaker 2>But other than that, he is just like complete vanilla

926
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:41.239
<v Speaker 2>beige boy, isn't he. Yeah?

927
00:45:41.400 --> 00:45:44.199
<v Speaker 3>I was. There was one thing that I thought would

928
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:48.480
<v Speaker 3>happen in the film didn't happen when the when guy's

929
00:45:48.519 --> 00:45:52.440
<v Speaker 3>wife goes to visit Bruno in Bruno's.

930
00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:55.559
<v Speaker 2>House, right, and when she goes plead with him.

931
00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:58.199
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, when she goes to plead with him obviously, he

932
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:01.880
<v Speaker 3>basically says like he's in his web of deceit on her,

933
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:04.920
<v Speaker 3>and it doesn't quite work, but he's trying to. Like

934
00:46:05.119 --> 00:46:07.199
<v Speaker 3>she she walks away and still thinks he's the nut job.

935
00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:09.239
<v Speaker 3>But you know he's sitting there going, oh, you know,

936
00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:11.400
<v Speaker 3>I'm just trying to protect him, blah blah blah blah blah.

937
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:13.840
<v Speaker 3>I did kind of get the impression that towards the

938
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:15.920
<v Speaker 3>end is that I don't like being betrayed or whatever.

939
00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:18.719
<v Speaker 3>He might have actually tried to pull her in on

940
00:46:18.760 --> 00:46:20.440
<v Speaker 3>it and go, look, I don't really care who kills

941
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:24.599
<v Speaker 3>my dad, so if you do it, it's clean slate. Yeah.

942
00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:26.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think if this had been like a nineties

943
00:46:26.920 --> 00:46:29.840
<v Speaker 2>movie onwards as well, like he definitely would have fucked her.

944
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:33.880
<v Speaker 2>I think that would have happened. I Also, I think

945
00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:36.800
<v Speaker 2>one of the the mystricks in this film is that

946
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:39.559
<v Speaker 2>she never doubts Guy's story.

947
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:42.239
<v Speaker 3>She gets one bit where she's like, oh, for just

948
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:44.400
<v Speaker 3>a moment, he is like, that's why I didn't tell you, yeah,

949
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:46.719
<v Speaker 3>and then that's it. It kind of moves on from

950
00:46:46.760 --> 00:46:47.079
<v Speaker 3>it and.

951
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:50.079
<v Speaker 2>Her dad, who's a senator and I would assume be

952
00:46:50.320 --> 00:46:52.960
<v Speaker 2>very wary of any public scandal whatsoever. And he's like,

953
00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:55.440
<v Speaker 2>come in, guy, well, don't worry about it. You didn't

954
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:58.400
<v Speaker 2>do it, did you. No, I didn't do it. You

955
00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:00.400
<v Speaker 2>would think you'd be like, look, kid, I don't think

956
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:01.719
<v Speaker 2>you did it, but it might be best if you

957
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:02.880
<v Speaker 2>just stay away from the house.

958
00:47:03.800 --> 00:47:07.480
<v Speaker 3>It's like you watch over, ignore the police officer outside

959
00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:09.800
<v Speaker 3>my home. That moment caused so I did like the

960
00:47:09.840 --> 00:47:12.039
<v Speaker 3>line from the daughter where she's like, oh no, daddy

961
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:13.639
<v Speaker 3>doesn't buy the schedule. He's a senator.

962
00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:16.760
<v Speaker 2>She yeah, I say she's brilliant. She's just the best.

963
00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:20.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, I think that's probably it. Four strangers on

964
00:47:20.480 --> 00:47:22.239
<v Speaker 1>the train ready to close the book on that one.

965
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I want to say, well done to all of

966
00:47:23.880 --> 00:47:25.679
<v Speaker 2>us for not making the snakes on a plane pun

967
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:29.840
<v Speaker 2>during Yeah, showing real growth.

968
00:47:32.079 --> 00:47:33.800
<v Speaker 1>That's not a good move, to be fair.

969
00:47:33.880 --> 00:47:35.440
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's worse than snakes on a plane.

970
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:37.199
<v Speaker 1>Snakes on a train, which does exist.

971
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:38.559
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it does. I've watched it.

972
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:40.079
<v Speaker 1>It's awful. Of course, it's awful.

973
00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:44.079
<v Speaker 2>Two snakes like bump their tails together and they go, yes,

974
00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:45.719
<v Speaker 2>maybe I.

975
00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Can't remember if I buy you buy that, guy, Okay.

976
00:47:48.719 --> 00:47:50.920
<v Speaker 3>I'll be honest. I thought snakes on a plane was terrible.

977
00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:51.719
<v Speaker 1>It's not good.

978
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:52.360
<v Speaker 3>It's a terrible.

979
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:55.079
<v Speaker 1>It's most remembered for the famous.

980
00:47:54.800 --> 00:47:57.360
<v Speaker 2>Be get these strangers off this motherfucking train.

981
00:48:00.800 --> 00:48:03.559
<v Speaker 1>Okay, then, well, thank you everyone for tuning in, thank

982
00:48:03.599 --> 00:48:05.159
<v Speaker 1>you Dave for coming and joining.

983
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Us, thanks for having me, and you.

984
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:10.199
<v Speaker 1>Can also check out other show VGMP, the Video Game

985
00:48:10.239 --> 00:48:14.840
<v Speaker 1>Movie Podcast, where we review video game based movies. Of

986
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:19.760
<v Speaker 1>them are terrible, but they're as artistically creative as hitchcom.

987
00:48:20.679 --> 00:48:24.679
<v Speaker 1>Of them are garbage, but occasionally, once in a blue moon,

988
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:27.360
<v Speaker 1>we come across a hidden gem. And that's that's why

989
00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:30.599
<v Speaker 1>we do the show, folks. That's what I'm saying. That's

990
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:34.320
<v Speaker 1>the occasionally. Black Heaven was brilliant. I'd recommend that to

991
00:48:34.400 --> 00:48:35.920
<v Speaker 1>even my non video game fans.

992
00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:36.679
<v Speaker 2>Check it out.

993
00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:39.440
<v Speaker 1>And having said that, it's time to wrap things up

994
00:48:39.440 --> 00:48:42.199
<v Speaker 1>here and we will see you next time on Second

995
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:43.039
<v Speaker 1>Take Cinema