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We're gitted my 23 00:00:58.679 --> 00:00:59.880 eighteen plus terms and condition to play. 24 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:00.719 What everything fails? 25 00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:11.560 You are now listening to True Murder the most shocking 26 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:14.680 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 27 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:22.040 written about him. Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK Every 28 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.760 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 29 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:30.040 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with Your 30 00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:33.280 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 31 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:46.439 Good Evening, Sarge is a fascinating memoir by the late 32 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:50.560 Chicago Police detective Sergeant John A. DiMaggio, one of the 33 00:01:50.680 --> 00:01:53.680 most decorated officers on the force during a career that 34 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:57.200 spanned the years nineteen fifty seven to nineteen ninety one. 35 00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:02.239 Among his awards are two Superintendentwards of Valor, Mayor Richard J. 36 00:02:02.519 --> 00:02:06.480 Dai's Praiseworthy Acknowledgment Plaque for Exceptional Act of Bravery and 37 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:11.439 involving risk of life, a Presidential Citation of Appreciation, the 38 00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:16.520 Illinois Police Association Award of Valor, and many more. Upon 39 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:20.639 his retirement in nineteen ninety one, DiMaggio wrote a fascinating 40 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:24.360 account of his work as a cop. The manuscript languished 41 00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:27.800 among his personal effects until after his death in two 42 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:31.479 thousand and eight, after which his family decided to resurrect it, 43 00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:35.360 spruce it up, and submit it for publication. It turns 44 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:38.439 out that he was an excellent word craftsman and storyteller. 45 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:41.520 In fact, he was no stranger to writing. For many 46 00:02:41.599 --> 00:02:44.719 years he wrote the Ask Sarge column for the Mystery 47 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:49.439 Writers of America Midwest Chapter newsletter. Told in a conversational, 48 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:53.759 regular guy voice. In episodic fashion, Sarge reveals to the 49 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:57.319 reader what really was like to be a cop. The manuscript, 50 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:00.000 in many ways, takes the form of a prose treatment 51 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:03.759 of a weekly television police drama. A large selection of 52 00:03:03.800 --> 00:03:07.039 photos is included. Demaggio takes the reader back to the 53 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:10.719 decades such as the turbulent sixties, when the police department 54 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:14.240 was making a painful transition from old school to modernization. 55 00:03:14.599 --> 00:03:17.960 The author describes firsthand the legendary riots that occurred in 56 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:21.800 Chicago after the assassination of marthlur Luther King Junior. He 57 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:25.479 illustrates the integration of minorities into the department and how 58 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:28.400 that played out. He also goes into famous cases of 59 00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:32.639 corruption and the politics of navigating such a large department. 60 00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:35.479 One of the set pieces of the book is the 61 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:38.919 story of how DiMaggio, as part of the Three Musketeers, 62 00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:41.879 a trio that included two detectives who were close friends, 63 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:46.280 investigated a series of terrifying slasher attacks on women that 64 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:49.680 occurred in the city in the mid seventies. The case 65 00:03:49.759 --> 00:03:53.159 became one of the police departments most memorable. Among the 66 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:56.240 other cases detailed in the book include how DiMaggio found 67 00:03:56.319 --> 00:03:59.120 himself entering the home of a crazed young man holding 68 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:02.759 hostages with a shit shotgun, the investigation of the discovery 69 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.080 of a headless corpse, the takedown of the Chicago mad mommer, 70 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:09.560 how an anonymous audio tape provided clues to the identities 71 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:12.719 of arm robbers, and the man hunt or a cop killer. 72 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:15.919 The book that we're featuring this evening is Sarge Cases 73 00:04:16.000 --> 00:04:19.959 of a Chicago Police detective Sergeant in the nineteen sixties, seventies, 74 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.199 and eighties, with my special guest, attorney Deborah DiMaggio. Welcome 75 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:27.639 to the program, and thank you so much for this interview. 76 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:30.839 Deborah DiMaggio, Thank you, Dan, thank you for having me. 77 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:33.519 Thank you so much. I forgot to introduce to the 78 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:38.920 audience your collaboration in this book as collaborator and executive 79 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:43.240 producer and publisher. Let's start off immediately with the genesis 80 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:46.639 of this published book by your father. When was it written. 81 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.199 When did he retire? Tell us about some of the 82 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:51.839 details and the genesis of this book, Sarge. 83 00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:55.759 He retired in February of ninety one. His retirement party 84 00:04:55.839 --> 00:04:58.920 was a month or two later, and we saw so 85 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.920 many people show up up to honor him. And then 86 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:06.319 my parents went to Las Vegas, where many Chicago police 87 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:10.800 retire and they find security jobs in the casinos. So 88 00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:12.959 I think my dad worked at a golf course for 89 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.199 a little bit and he had some security jobs part time. 90 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:19.040 He was writing this book and it was a memoir, 91 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:23.920 and it started out simply focus on the Dominique Slasher case, 92 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:28.680 and he visited the prison and obtained an interview, and 93 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:34.000 in the book he quote unquote said he was fascinated 94 00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:37.480 by the criminal mind, and this case got to him, 95 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:40.839 and I think he wanted to understand the reason for 96 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:46.720 those crimes and perhaps humanize the perpetrator on some level, 97 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:51.160 not thinking or saying he should be released, but to 98 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:56.480 simply understand him the why. So after my father's death 99 00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:59.319 in two thousand and eight, my brother shipped all of 100 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:02.319 the manuscrit to me, and being the lawyer in the family, 101 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:05.160 they thought I might have some contacts, so I would 102 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:08.399 mention it here and there, and organically I met an 103 00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:12.879 entertainment lawyer, I met a screenwriter, and interestingly enough, the 104 00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:18.439 screenwriter his career. He went into making horror films because 105 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.800 of the book Three Boys Missing, which was another crime 106 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:25.160 on the Northwest Side and it was very highly unusual 107 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:28.439 for crime in that area. And then we met down 108 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:33.439 the line Raymond Benson, who is an acclaimed author with 109 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:36.480 more than forty books and was hired by Ian Fleming 110 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:40.199 for the Bond series to author a book some of 111 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:43.759 their novels. And I know that my dad had some 112 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:47.720 help from Wayne claff so he should be given some credit. 113 00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:52.680 So we wound up getting Crossroad Press. They were interested. 114 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:55.560 I got a message the day after my birthday, We'd 115 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:58.279 be honored to publish your dad's book. And here we are. 116 00:06:58.519 --> 00:07:00.360 Now when was this book launched? 117 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:02.560 October of twenty eighteen. 118 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:04.959 Now, before we start, we're going to talk about the 119 00:07:05.680 --> 00:07:08.600 Robert Dominique case, and we're going to talk about another 120 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:12.279 case of the Valerie Percy murder. Let's talk about the 121 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:15.519 book launch and who shows up the book launch. 122 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:19.399 We had the book launch, and I stayed in touch 123 00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:24.920 with one of the victims, who will remain anonymous, and 124 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:28.279 my dad used anonymous a fake name in the book, 125 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:32.560 and I asked their permission to have the book published, 126 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:35.399 and they said that your dad was our hero, and 127 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:39.560 anything he wanted, we want. And I don't think they 128 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:42.560 ever listened to the tape. I'm not sure if they 129 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:45.879 read the book, but they attended the book launch and 130 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:50.199 remained anonymous to the crowd that showed up, family and friends. 131 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:52.839 You right that you always knew your follow was a cop. 132 00:07:52.959 --> 00:07:55.879 But in the writing and well the publishing of this 133 00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:59.360 book and the collaboration and getting it all together for publication, 134 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:01.720 did you learn in that regard? 135 00:08:02.199 --> 00:08:06.040 I learned what he was doing each day, and why 136 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:09.800 he had so much fear, and why he was so strict. 137 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:13.160 And we didn't know anything about the day to day 138 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:17.360 goings on his police work when we were kids, and 139 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:21.480 it wasn't until college law school those years that we 140 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:26.439 learn about the cases, but not in the detail where 141 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:31.639 his life was in danger or how brave he really was. 142 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.639 We saw the camaraderie and the brotherhood of his friends 143 00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:39.679 and fellow police officers. They were so tight, tighter than 144 00:08:40.039 --> 00:08:45.559 any other industry. And I learned about his integrity and 145 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.000 how honorable he was. I certainly knew that as his daughter, 146 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:53.039 but it was really made evident. We knew about his 147 00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:55.360 work ethic, We knew it was honorable, We knew it 148 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:58.159 was just worthy. We knew he was honest, but we 149 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:02.840 didn't really realize the time and what a rear breed 150 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:05.720 these police officers are in our society. 151 00:09:05.879 --> 00:09:09.039 Absolutely, you say, this book is filled, and this book 152 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:12.519 is filled with stories of your father's bravery and other 153 00:09:12.600 --> 00:09:17.320 police officers, his unique brand of integrity that sometimes went 154 00:09:17.360 --> 00:09:22.240 against the brass, his intuition, his intellect in trying to 155 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.600 solve crimes, and his great passion for the badge itself 156 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:30.559 and justice, and his energy that he put forth in 157 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:35.399 this relentless pursuit of justice that he had basically from 158 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:39.120 his own volition. You talk about one of the stories 159 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:41.840 in this book, and this book is filled with stories 160 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:46.159 of burglary, robbery, murder, and the sixties riots Martin, Luther 161 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:49.799 King and beyond. Let's talk about a case that your 162 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:54.480 father was instrumental in solving, and a particularly interesting case 163 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:58.919 of a woman named Valerie Percy, her father Charles Percy, 164 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:02.840 running for the Senate in nineteen sixty six, tell us 165 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:06.360 about Percy tell us about Charles Percy and his family 166 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:10.000 and this campaign that he was involved with in nineteen 167 00:10:10.039 --> 00:10:14.759 sixty six, and what happens September eighteenth, nineteen sixty six. 168 00:10:14.960 --> 00:10:19.360 Well, it's fascinating because the murder occurred into Kenilworth and 169 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:24.159 it's a very wealthy suburb of Chicago, and crimes just 170 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:29.000 don't occur, and maybe littering or a speeding ticket, but 171 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:32.759 not murder. And he was a celebrity. He was the 172 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:36.519 chairman of Ellen Howell, who was a state senator and 173 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:40.840 more than likely was going to run for president. This murderer. 174 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:45.360 And I asked my father and he said, this criminal, 175 00:10:45.639 --> 00:10:50.720 the man that he believed committed this murder likely climbed 176 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:54.600 a tree that faced their windows and spied on this 177 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:59.960 family for weeks to know their patterns, and he was prepared. 178 00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:05.840 And it came down to looking at them and criminal 179 00:11:05.960 --> 00:11:09.840 scaff patterns. And it was based on this pattern that 180 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:13.639 I believe my father figured out who did it, and 181 00:11:14.600 --> 00:11:18.360 he was convinced. It remains a cold case today. But 182 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:23.600 I heard through people who knew Senator Percy, that Senator 183 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:28.240 Percy knew about the young detective assigned from Chicago who 184 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:32.559 told Senator Percy, who he believed killed his daughter. And 185 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:36.080 then you had the twin Sharon, who was engaged to 186 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:40.200 John D. Rockefeller the third And I think they didn't 187 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:46.200 want any more publicity once they knew that this career 188 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:51.120 criminal died in jail escaping from jail, or trying to 189 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:54.399 escape from jail and dove into what he thought was 190 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:57.159 a river, but it was really a creak. That was 191 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:59.600 the end for the family, But on the books it 192 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:00.679 remained the cold case. 193 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:05.240 Your father brings this horrifying story, horrifying for the family 194 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:09.759 and of course for Valerie. On September eighteenth, nineteen sixty six, 195 00:12:10.679 --> 00:12:13.919 he writes that an intruder cut through the patio screen 196 00:12:14.440 --> 00:12:17.360 and glass section of the French doors of the Percy 197 00:12:17.559 --> 00:12:21.440 seventeen room mansion, and this is in the exclusive suburb 198 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:24.600 of Kenilworth. The mother, Lorraine, is awoken by the sound 199 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:27.759 of broken glass and she goes to investigate her daughter's 200 00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:31.960 room and she finds a shadowy figure standing over her 201 00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:35.000 daughter about five eight, one hundred and sixty pounds, and 202 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:37.840 she awakes her husband, but this person gets away. And 203 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:41.240 what you talked about this how your father had solved 204 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:44.360 this was right away in the autop she she had 205 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:48.639 been hit with a heavy instrument that left peculiar pine 206 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:52.600 cone shaped dense in her skull. So your father being 207 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:57.320 astute and following this investigation, and this book is also 208 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:01.120 filled with so many fateful events where it seemed to 209 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:06.440 be divine intervention to assist people like your father in 210 00:13:06.960 --> 00:13:09.559 these investigations that were so important to him and of 211 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:12.360 course to the victims and their families. But in the 212 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:18.000 course of his investigation, and doggedly he pursues this, he 213 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:23.279 does find that peculiar cone shaped weapon or the weapon 214 00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:27.799 that produced those cone shaped type wounds on this person's 215 00:13:28.200 --> 00:13:30.120 on valeries had didn't it right? 216 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.480 In the autopsy room there was a case of weapons 217 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:38.159 and the handle of a certain old fashioned gun had 218 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:41.879 that triangular part to it, and he asked them to 219 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:44.399 take it out of the case. And I think that 220 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:47.879 was the turning point. And not only that, the history 221 00:13:48.159 --> 00:13:52.399 of the criminal he had a contempt for the wealthy, 222 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:56.080 and he would put himself on even par by taking 223 00:13:56.440 --> 00:14:01.879 over their house, by taking their possessions, by robbing, by 224 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:07.360 in this case murdering, and in one case he defecated 225 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:10.559 on the floor and then wiped himself and left a 226 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:15.080 silk scarf there. Another one, he killed the cat and 227 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:19.919 placed the pett the dead pet, next to the sleeping 228 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:24.240 woman in the house. In another case, he ejaculated into 229 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.720 a condom, tied the condom, and then put it in 230 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:31.000 the woman's purse before he left after robbing the house. 231 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:36.759 So this was one truly extraordinarily sick individual. 232 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:40.759 These stories are filled with the connection that he has 233 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:43.960 with other police officers, the trust that he has in 234 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:47.720 his partners, and he has, as in the Dominique case, 235 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:51.799 an opportunity to hand pick his partners and his team. 236 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:56.759 It's very interesting in this Percy case that he was 237 00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:02.159 given information through another detective who had an informant, and 238 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:06.519 that detective got information from that format, but as he writes, 239 00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:09.639 he could not get that information verified. So he went 240 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.039 to your father, and then your father was able to 241 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:15.519 go ahead and verify some of this information. Again, these 242 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:19.159 stories are all filled with a combination of your father's integrity, 243 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:23.639 is keen intuition, and then just some faithful turn of 244 00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:26.480 events that end up being a lucky thing, like him 245 00:15:26.559 --> 00:15:29.600 stumbling into or not stumbling but walking into the crime 246 00:15:29.720 --> 00:15:32.440 lab and just having a look after he had spoke 247 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:36.759 with Johnson, Chief Johnson. So this is the kind of 248 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:39.559 things that this book is filled with the stories of 249 00:15:39.639 --> 00:15:42.360 bravery where your father runs out of a runs into 250 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:45.320 a building where a woman is screaming, doesn't wait for 251 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:49.279 the fire department, sometimes doing foolish things, and sometimes bucking 252 00:15:49.639 --> 00:15:52.639 the system that he's working in the police department that 253 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:57.039 he's working for, and being temporarily demoted for his insubordination. 254 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.240 But yet he regrets none of it because he was 255 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:03.399 part of his character and part of his need to 256 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.519 do what he felt was necessary, sometimes often refusing some 257 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:10.600 direct orders to be able to pursue what he felt 258 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:11.320 was necessary. 259 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:13.440 Right, he had a little bit of dirty Harry, and 260 00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:17.200 I definitely found that out. And part of it was luck, 261 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:19.919 but part of it was talent. And he was very 262 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:24.639 competent and trustworthy. So the superintendent knew that he could 263 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:27.840 assign the two man team and trust my father, and 264 00:16:28.200 --> 00:16:31.840 he was dedicated. I saw a lot of perseverance. He 265 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:38.799 was thorough, perfectionist, high iq disciplined, and work ethic, and 266 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.120 those are traits that he taught us. So he told 267 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:44.519 me he didn't give a lot of advice, and I 268 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:46.679 think he was really happy that I became a lawyer, 269 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:49.879 because he wanted to become a lawyer. But my mother 270 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.519 got pregnant and he went on the police force and 271 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:55.960 dashed that hope. But he told me, you get one 272 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:59.279 reputation in life, you don't get a second chance. 273 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:00.919 You say that. 274 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:05.480 He also didn't talk about his work being as a father. 275 00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:07.839 He did not bring that home, did not at all. 276 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:11.079 We would see him on television here and there when 277 00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:14.160 he made a big bus or big pinch they call it, 278 00:17:14.319 --> 00:17:18.559 but or see in the newspaper, but we didn't know 279 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.640 the danger he was in. He was a police officer, 280 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:25.759 he also remarked, and it was interesting how he also 281 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:29.880 talked about it in the book. The public association with 282 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.039 the police department is usually traffic stuff, and that's their 283 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:38.559 only connection or what they see or their only interaction 284 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.200 with the police. And he said it's really a shame 285 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:45.519 because they don't see the detectives, the sergeants, the commanders, 286 00:17:46.119 --> 00:17:49.759 and all the work that goes into working a homicide 287 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:54.119 case or a robbery, or seeing how the victims and 288 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:57.880 their families are so appreciative of the hard work and 289 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:03.240 the dedication of those officers and the patrolmen are certainly 290 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:06.920 any traffic stoff could wind up being their last, and 291 00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.400 they are certainly working hard. But he did comment it's 292 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:14.640 unfortunate that the public doesn't see the other work that 293 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:17.799 the police officers are doing to selve crimes. 294 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:21.440 He writes about many of the cases that he was 295 00:18:21.559 --> 00:18:25.480 involved with and talks about the kinds of things that 296 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:30.480 police officers see sometimes on a daily basis, working in robbery, 297 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:34.240 working in a big city, working when murder. 298 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:36.599 Rates were very, very high, and crime rates were. 299 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:40.160 At their highest, without the police having almost any semblance 300 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:44.039 of technology in order to assist them. He talks about 301 00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:49.960 employing that camaraderie between police officers and how they cope 302 00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:52.559 with some of the trauma, like some of the things 303 00:18:52.839 --> 00:18:57.880 seeing a person blown his face, blown off, his body, headless, corpse. 304 00:18:58.160 --> 00:18:59.920 And this book is filled with those kinds of thing 305 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:04.680 things that a police officer, whether a veteran or a novice, 306 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:08.400 would have to experience those things and then after decompress 307 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:12.519 and recover from that. And your father talked about the 308 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:14.480 ways police officers did do that. 309 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:18.359 Yes, they had each other, and only that's when he said, 310 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:22.359 only a cop can understand another cop. That tightened the 311 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:27.079 bond between them, and most of his friends were fellow 312 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:30.839 police officers, detectives that work for him, worked with him, 313 00:19:31.720 --> 00:19:35.480 and he really had a team approach. He didn't act 314 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.839 like a boss. He and he really taught us that 315 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.400 they were a team. And once when he had back 316 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:46.319 surgery and he was on pain killers, I decided to 317 00:19:46.480 --> 00:19:49.880 venture and ask him a question. What was the toughest 318 00:19:50.119 --> 00:19:53.720 case you had to solve? And he said, oh, that's 319 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:58.240 easy to answer. No head, no hands, no feet, And 320 00:19:58.400 --> 00:20:00.880 that was the case. You mentioned the tru Anna hotel. 321 00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:04.359 And I don't think correct me if I'm wrong. I 322 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:08.279 don't think it's mentioned in the book. And maybe he was. 323 00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:12.960 Maybe he was trying to protect somebody from making a 324 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:17.359 mistake on the crime scene. But first they found out 325 00:20:17.599 --> 00:20:22.880 who the murdered person was by locating his car that 326 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:25.400 was left parked on the street. Okay, but how did 327 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.240 they catch the murderer. There were wine glasses, so the 328 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:34.599 woman wooed the murderer into the hotel room and the 329 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:40.319 boyfriend or colleague, her colleague was there waiting to murder him. 330 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:43.079 And I think it had to do with drugs, And 331 00:20:43.920 --> 00:20:47.440 there were wine glasses and from the prince on the 332 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:49.799 wine glasses and I don't think that was in the book. 333 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:54.519 They picked up and it led to the murderer, the arrest. 334 00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:58.240 And conviction fascinating. Let's use this as an opportunity to 335 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:01.000 stop for a second to hear from our sponsor, which 336 00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:04.799 is ZipRecruiter. You know, a person that is essential to 337 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:09.039 me feeling good every day is my massage therapist. 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Zip recruiter the smartest way to hire. 356 00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:24.960 Now. 357 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.599 When we last left off, we were talking about the 358 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:34.759 cases that really struck your father as extraordinary, and those 359 00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:38.039 are the ones that are included in this incredible book, 360 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:42.799 Serget Cases of a Chicago Police Detective Sergeant nineteen sixty 361 00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.799 to nineteen eighty one of the cases that affected him 362 00:22:46.279 --> 00:22:49.839 the most, and it is testament by the coverage that 363 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:53.160 he does, the amount of detail that he goes into, 364 00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:57.440 and this particular story titled the Three Musketeers. First tell 365 00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:01.240 us who these three musketeers are. At least tell us 366 00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:03.880 about the three Musketeers before we start. 367 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:10.240 They were detectives that my father respected and enjoyed working 368 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:16.759 with because they were intelligent, dedicated, loyal, hard working, honorable, 369 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:19.960 and they had the same traits that he had. And 370 00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:23.880 another trait that I left out. I think that police 371 00:23:23.960 --> 00:23:28.960 officers are pretty non judgmental because they see they see 372 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:33.480 the fabric of the life where these people are situated, 373 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:38.319 and he saw both sides. He saw criminals who are 374 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.240 kind of good guys, and he saw some cops who 375 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.079 kind of worked with guys. So it just leaves you 376 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:50.440 non judgmental. It's very, very similar to handling divorce cases 377 00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:53.920 like I do. Just you're non judgmental. You just take 378 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.440 it where these people are at and you go forward 379 00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:01.880 with it. So I have the pleasure of meeting mister 380 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:06.079 Nolan and mister Rochel, who were part of the Three Musketeers. 381 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:09.680 I was probably much too young, and I know that 382 00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:12.920 we lost mister Nolan at a very early age. 383 00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:13.400 Right. 384 00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:19.160 Your dad writes that A long nightmare began half an 385 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:24.440 hour before dawn on Saturday, November eighth, nineteen seventy five, 386 00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:27.160 with nineteen year old Carrie Barnes. 387 00:24:27.559 --> 00:24:28.559 She was out at a bar. 388 00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:32.799 She bumped into an acquaintance of hers, Mike Butch Brooks. 389 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:37.759 She left this bar and noticed a strange looking man 390 00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:42.519 behind her and thought she was being followed. Had that feeling, 391 00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:45.559 but then when she got right up to her home 392 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:48.359 there was a man with something in a paper bag 393 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:51.039 and he was asking for directions. She thought maybe he 394 00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:53.920 was drunk, but then he said, hey, you want to 395 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:56.680 be nice to me, how about a blowjob? So she 396 00:24:57.039 --> 00:24:59.920 was angered and said why don't you go to Howard 397 00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.000 Street and look for it? And then he said I 398 00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:05.079 want to blow jab. He got aggressive and said he 399 00:25:05.160 --> 00:25:07.640 want to have sex, and she said, if you don't leave, 400 00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:08.559 I'll call the police. 401 00:25:08.920 --> 00:25:10.799