1
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,439
Speaker 1: If you want to get the show early and ad free,

2
00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,799
head on over to the Peak Kinyonas show dot com.

3
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,799
There you can choose from where you wish to support me.

4
00:00:48,079 --> 00:00:51,000
Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me

5
00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:53,320
about this, even though I think on the last ad

6
00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,799
I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed,

7
00:00:58,159 --> 00:01:01,280
you're going to have to subscribe your sub stack or

8
00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:06,040
through Patreon. You can also subscribe on my website which

9
00:01:06,079 --> 00:01:09,920
is right there, gum Road and what's the other one,

10
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,959
subscribe Star and if you do that, you will get

11
00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,599
access to the audio file. So head on over to

12
00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,000
the pekan Yonashow dot com. You'll see all the ways

13
00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,840
that you can support me there. And I just want

14
00:01:23,879 --> 00:01:26,840
to thank everyone. It's because of you that I can

15
00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,159
put out the amount of material that I do. I

16
00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,480
can do what I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two

17
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:36,079
hundred Years Together and everything else, the things that Thomas

18
00:01:36,159 --> 00:01:39,079
and I are doing together on condinal philosophy, it's all

19
00:01:39,079 --> 00:01:42,640
because of you. And yeah, I mean, I'll never be

20
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,079
able to thank you enough. So thank you. The pekan

21
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:51,200
Yonashow dot com. Everything's there. I want to welcome everyone

22
00:01:51,239 --> 00:01:54,680
back to the Peking Yona show, Carl Dollas back. They

23
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:55,480
don't Carl.

24
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,159
Speaker 2: Doing great, Pete, thanks for having me.

25
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, we seem to be a hadding a very

26
00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:08,120
good response from your your talk at the OGC conference

27
00:02:08,159 --> 00:02:11,639
this year that was turned into a video at slide presentation.

28
00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,520
Have people been reaching out to you about that?

29
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,639
Speaker 2: They have been, you know, my love of visuals. So yeah,

30
00:02:19,719 --> 00:02:24,240
it's been well received, and I've gotten some invites to

31
00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,680
come meet with people and talk to So that's that's great,

32
00:02:27,719 --> 00:02:28,639
that's the whole idea.

33
00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:33,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will link in the show notes to that,

34
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,680
because that is a good twenty less than twenty five

35
00:02:36,759 --> 00:02:40,000
minutes on the power of friendship.

36
00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,560
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, let's just keep at that, all right.

37
00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 1: We didn't really get together today to talk about anything

38
00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:50,520
too serious, so let's just let's just jump right in.

39
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,120
I think our I don't know, maybe people who've listened

40
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,560
to us can figure out our love of weapons before

41
00:02:58,879 --> 00:03:03,360
oh let's say nineteen five, right, Oh.

42
00:03:03,319 --> 00:03:06,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I mean I I carry more modern stuff

43
00:03:06,759 --> 00:03:09,800
and use more modern stuff, but the old stuff is

44
00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:14,599
so cool that it's just there's a compulsion to collect

45
00:03:14,599 --> 00:03:17,000
it and study it and talk about it and share

46
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,719
pictures and send links of them to Pete so that

47
00:03:20,759 --> 00:03:21,560
he can buy them.

48
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:30,039
Speaker 1: Well. Also the the idea that just if you run

49
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,159
out of AMMO, if you brain somebody with even a

50
00:03:34,199 --> 00:03:38,680
pocket pistol from that period, you know, you probably fracture

51
00:03:38,719 --> 00:03:42,639
their skull because it's actually made with like real materials.

52
00:03:43,199 --> 00:03:49,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, the it's amazing the craftsmanship as well of

53
00:03:50,879 --> 00:03:54,719
those older early pistols, and you know sometimes they have

54
00:03:54,759 --> 00:03:59,520
what what we see as kind of cokammie operating systems

55
00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,479
because it was all being kind of explored and figured

56
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,919
out in the old days, and there are standards like

57
00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:11,400
the nineteen eleven is basically a design from nineteen oh

58
00:04:11,439 --> 00:04:17,680
five from that, you know, the earliest big bore auto

59
00:04:18,199 --> 00:04:22,079
that I mean, it's slightly different in the nineteen eleven

60
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,800
that John Moses Browning came up with, but he pretty

61
00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,040
much had it down. He also had it down with

62
00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:34,959
you know, his blowback operating mechanism for thirty two ACP

63
00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:38,560
and three eighty and cartridges like that. But there were

64
00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,959
a lot of interesting evolutions and explorations all over the world,

65
00:04:43,639 --> 00:04:47,720
but especially in Europe with these very small, intricately made

66
00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:53,519
pistols that are just fascinating to dig into.

67
00:04:55,199 --> 00:04:57,360
Speaker 1: Well, let's be honest here, I think there's only one

68
00:04:57,399 --> 00:04:59,839
that you ever you ever linked me to that I

69
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,120
actually went out and purchased. So, I mean it is

70
00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,879
the caliber that we both of us have a U

71
00:05:08,399 --> 00:05:12,160
I would say probably a fetish for Yeah, probably wouldn't

72
00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,959
be that probably wouldn't be an unfair term to use.

73
00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,759
But the piper Beard is in nineteen oh eight, having

74
00:05:21,759 --> 00:05:24,199
in my hands right now, which is one of the

75
00:05:24,199 --> 00:05:28,839
original pocket pistols with a low boar, with a low barrel,

76
00:05:28,959 --> 00:05:34,519
low bore axis, low bore access. Yeah, let's start talking

77
00:05:34,519 --> 00:05:37,519
about about thirty two ACP. I remember a buddy of

78
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,120
mine that I that I used to hang out with

79
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,800
every once in a while, and when I lived in

80
00:05:41,879 --> 00:05:46,839
the Atlanta area. He was a fanatic for thirty two ACP.

81
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,199
He would try to get every like by every old

82
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:55,600
pistol and convince people to thread barrels for them, which

83
00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,920
some they were like, I'm not writing a barrel on that.

84
00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,399
There's no way I'm not going to be responsible for that. Yeah,

85
00:06:01,399 --> 00:06:04,879
there's no meet But yeah, I remember him telling me

86
00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:09,160
at one point He's like, it's really hard to figure

87
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,199
this out, he said, but I'd be willing to bet.

88
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,959
In the twentieth century, when it came to pistol calibers,

89
00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:19,399
more people were killed by thirty two ACP than any

90
00:06:19,439 --> 00:06:20,120
other caliber.

91
00:06:20,519 --> 00:06:25,519
Speaker 2: That's probably that's in war not far off when you

92
00:06:25,639 --> 00:06:30,079
take into account World War One, China, World War two,

93
00:06:30,519 --> 00:06:36,199
Interwar period, Spanish Civil War, even thirty two ACP was

94
00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:40,360
doing it. And handguns, especially at the time, handguns were

95
00:06:40,399 --> 00:06:43,120
more of a well there it's like a personal defense

96
00:06:43,199 --> 00:06:48,040
weapon and a symbol of rank. And then frankly, in

97
00:06:48,079 --> 00:06:52,480
the old days, officers would you know, often be arming

98
00:06:52,519 --> 00:06:59,519
themselves with non standard but compliant weapons as long as

99
00:06:59,519 --> 00:07:03,560
it's in the cartridge that that is issued by your military,

100
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,720
it's a it's a good idea to just pick up

101
00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,240
an extra pistol, or you know, the British, for example,

102
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:16,319
they would even buy their own like Lee Lee model

103
00:07:17,079 --> 00:07:21,199
rifles that used the three zero three cartridge, for example,

104
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,240
but they'd get these more elaborate commercial versions that were

105
00:07:26,439 --> 00:07:30,040
that were like military approved, and the same thing happened

106
00:07:30,079 --> 00:07:33,759
with handguns. All kinds of crazy stuff. Smith and Wesson

107
00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,160
made there is it the Model sixty one that was

108
00:07:37,199 --> 00:07:40,000
a twenty two LR that was based on this mechanism.

109
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:48,560
You can see it in gosh, what's the movie The

110
00:07:48,839 --> 00:07:55,959
New York shaves his head to go assassinate a taxi driver. Yeah,

111
00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,800
taxi driver. He uses a Model sixty one pocket pistol.

112
00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:04,160
That's that's based on this mechanism. Twenty two lr bor

113
00:08:04,439 --> 00:08:08,399
right above, right above the trigger. That's as low as

114
00:08:08,439 --> 00:08:14,279
you can get it. Super cool pistol. There's another one

115
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,360
that I I was scratching my head about this Pete

116
00:08:19,399 --> 00:08:22,959
because when I was writing With the Crusaders, which is

117
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:28,279
my second novel, which takes place in and around the

118
00:08:28,279 --> 00:08:31,160
Spanish Civil War, I was trying to think of what's

119
00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:36,559
the deep cover pistol that my character is going to carry,

120
00:08:36,639 --> 00:08:40,200
and it had to be thirty two ACP seven sixty

121
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:45,120
five Browning, but because that was what was available in

122
00:08:45,159 --> 00:08:47,440
that theater. But I didn't want to just have a

123
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,480
Spanish pistol. I wanted one that was in these like

124
00:08:51,639 --> 00:08:56,759
super tiny deep covers. So I considered the Bayard because

125
00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,879
you can suppress those. And I kind of had this

126
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,120
thought like he could have all this gear, and then

127
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,679
I'm like, no, that's kind of that's kind of stretching

128
00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,159
it as a deniable pistol that you get, you know,

129
00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:14,159
for self defense when you're undercover as a journalist, Like

130
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:16,559
if you have a suppressor, like you're gonna be treated

131
00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:19,240
as a spy and get executed. Like it's there's there's

132
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,840
no way, there's no way a journalist would have a

133
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:26,639
suppressed custom Suppress thirty two automatic. But what I did

134
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,679
was I got a Fromer Baby. I gave him a

135
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:34,559
Fromer Baby, which is an incredibly cool pistol. It's a

136
00:09:35,039 --> 00:09:39,360
it but it's not a conventional blowback. It has a

137
00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:45,240
very strange like multi reciprocating mechanism where like the bore,

138
00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:50,480
the barrel and the kind of slide, but it's it's

139
00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:56,320
a it's a tube that goes inside the receiver and

140
00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,360
it has a basically a gas operation. It's this crazy

141
00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:07,080
recoil and gas combo in shorthand that sharing it, you

142
00:10:07,159 --> 00:10:12,399
are sharing it. That is a Fromer stop Baby in

143
00:10:12,519 --> 00:10:17,360
seven sixty five, and it's a Hungarian pistol. Incredibly cool.

144
00:10:17,879 --> 00:10:19,759
They didn't make a ton of them, but they made

145
00:10:19,799 --> 00:10:22,200
a fair bit. I want to say they made around

146
00:10:22,279 --> 00:10:26,120
twenty thousand of them. The full sized gun was actually

147
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,240
Hungarian military issue, and they also had a three eighty

148
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,759
version that was adopted by various militaries. I think it

149
00:10:32,879 --> 00:10:37,960
was an option in the Austro Hungarian Empire as a

150
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:42,559
as a handgun, but you know Austro Hungarian Empire hodgepodge

151
00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,279
of weapons because there's all these kind of subnations beneath it.

152
00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:50,200
So you can find those fromer stops, like one in

153
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,600
good quality is not inexpensive, but it's less than a

154
00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,879
thousand dollars. The babies are like they used to be

155
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,919
something that you know, pre inner at pre gun broker,

156
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,679
you could get them for three to four hundred dollars

157
00:11:04,759 --> 00:11:09,320
in pretty decent condition. But ever since it's they're they're

158
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,480
very desirable and they go for a huge amounts of money.

159
00:11:12,759 --> 00:11:16,600
Like I saw a beat one for five hundred and

160
00:11:17,879 --> 00:11:24,600
it was gone instantly, So I'll get one someday. Yeah.

161
00:11:24,639 --> 00:11:27,600
Speaker 1: It's the thing is when you're trying to find these

162
00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:32,120
I don't know if you've you've experienced this. When you

163
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:37,080
get the idea to look for something that is out

164
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,840
of the ordinary for some reason, it seems like seventy

165
00:11:40,879 --> 00:11:44,679
five percent of the time, it's become popular in some

166
00:11:44,799 --> 00:11:48,000
little circle, yes, and then you go to look for

167
00:11:48,039 --> 00:11:50,000
it and it's like, oh so the price and a

168
00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:54,039
year ago was five hundred dollars and now it's fifteen hundred.

169
00:11:53,799 --> 00:11:57,240
Speaker 2: Dollars exactly, because there's also.

170
00:11:57,840 --> 00:11:59,480
Speaker 1: Or ten years ago when you could get H and

171
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:02,039
K and like things in the P seven series between

172
00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:07,399
twelve hundred and fifteen hundred dollars. Yeah, and now it's

173
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,600
become so popular because I guess maybe because you know,

174
00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,039
people have figured out that Diehard is a Christmas movie.

175
00:12:13,399 --> 00:12:16,799
Everyone has to have one that's hilarious.

176
00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:22,559
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, absolutely, it's the more that you see it

177
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:28,519
on TV and in shows or in anything else, you know,

178
00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,039
the more desirable desirable it becomes. I just sent you

179
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,039
a picture in excuse me, a link to an image

180
00:12:36,039 --> 00:12:38,720
in the private chat for you to take a look at.

181
00:12:38,759 --> 00:12:43,200
This is the frommer Baby mechanism. It's broken down and

182
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:48,039
you can see how complicated it is, which is where

183
00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:56,440
it got it's totally over designed reputation. It has a

184
00:12:57,639 --> 00:13:02,639
basically a rotating bolt and then like I said, the

185
00:13:04,039 --> 00:13:07,879
barrel and kind of like the chamber area which is

186
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:15,759
milled to be essentially the track that that bolt and

187
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,960
kind of charging handle type piece. You can understand where

188
00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:20,360
they get a.

189
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,639
Speaker 1: Barrel in the chamber, the barrel in the chamber being

190
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,200
being the same piece is insane.

191
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:31,039
Speaker 2: It's insane. And it's based on a semi automatic rifle

192
00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,960
that was developed in Hungary and used in military trials

193
00:13:35,399 --> 00:13:39,279
in like nineteen oh seven or something like. It's very early,

194
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,440
maybe nineteen twelve. I think it might be around. It

195
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,720
might have been developed around the same time. But man,

196
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,840
like just the design and then the fact that the

197
00:13:51,879 --> 00:13:59,440
receiver and tube and kind of that, the track for

198
00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:05,639
the spring above it and operating mechanism reciprocation is all

199
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,360
milled out of one piece. It's it's bananas, but it's

200
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:10,200
really cool.

201
00:14:12,879 --> 00:14:17,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, the I think you know that when it comes

202
00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:22,559
to thirty two ACP, one of my favorites is share

203
00:14:22,559 --> 00:14:28,159
it right now. Oh yeah, the nineteen twenty two Browning FN.

204
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,279
Speaker 2: Which is based nineteen ten. It's just extendo. Yeah.

205
00:14:34,279 --> 00:14:36,919
Speaker 1: I know where there's a nineteen ten actually for sale

206
00:14:36,919 --> 00:14:42,960
around here, and it's like, uh but the yeah, this

207
00:14:43,159 --> 00:14:46,120
is I have one of these, and this thing shoots.

208
00:14:48,519 --> 00:14:53,759
This may be the smoothest shooting pistol I have. There's

209
00:14:53,799 --> 00:14:55,759
a target, just don't feel it.

210
00:14:56,039 --> 00:15:00,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a target version that was developed up

211
00:15:00,879 --> 00:15:06,000
by fn So it's manufactured by Fabric Nacional in Belgium,

212
00:15:06,559 --> 00:15:11,279
and they made a target version of it that is

213
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:17,840
shockingly accurate. It has a fixed barrel and again, if

214
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,559
you're shooting thirty two or even three eighty, this is

215
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:24,879
a good sized gun. There you go, it's straight blowback.

216
00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,080
So yes, it does suppress well. It was used by

217
00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,799
all kinds of players as a suppressed pistol in World

218
00:15:30,799 --> 00:15:34,519
War Two. Just a laser it's just a laser gun

219
00:15:34,639 --> 00:15:39,919
because it's a real sized grip profile. But then the

220
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,320
bore is real low in your handle. There's a lot

221
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,840
of meat there. So it's not a heavy gun. This

222
00:15:45,879 --> 00:15:48,240
is the way I describe it, Pete, and you probably agree.

223
00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:50,799
It's not a heavy gun, but it's heavy enough that

224
00:15:50,919 --> 00:15:54,039
it just soaks up that recoil. Not that there's a

225
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,639
lot of recoil in a thirty two, but it soaks

226
00:15:56,759 --> 00:16:01,639
up the mechanisms cycling to where it's just incredibly smooth.

227
00:16:03,679 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I mean, of course, when you're shooting thirty two,

228
00:16:06,799 --> 00:16:10,120
you're you know, you're not going to get in, You're

229
00:16:10,159 --> 00:16:13,360
not going to get an insane amount of recoil. But

230
00:16:13,559 --> 00:16:17,519
the uh, yeah, this just there's no muzzle. There's no

231
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,120
muscleflip on this at all. You just keep it on

232
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:22,039
target all yep freaking.

233
00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,080
Speaker 2: Day, which is the name of the game, and controlling

234
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:30,919
like you're shooting is the muzzle. The muzzle flip determines

235
00:16:31,039 --> 00:16:35,960
like how your ability to repeat shots quickly on target?

236
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's uh, thirty two is a lot of

237
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:50,279
fun to shoot. Mainly, I don't know why is it.

238
00:16:50,039 --> 00:16:52,840
It seems like like I keep coming back to the

239
00:16:52,879 --> 00:16:57,960
word fetish because once you start getting into it, and

240
00:16:59,159 --> 00:17:00,679
why don't you talk a little litle bit about just

241
00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:02,559
how odd this round is that it's.

242
00:17:02,519 --> 00:17:06,440
Speaker 2: Roomless so or semi rimmed?

243
00:17:06,519 --> 00:17:09,119
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I guess it's semi rimmed.

244
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,759
Speaker 2: So. The long and the short of it is, it's

245
00:17:12,799 --> 00:17:16,200
one of the first semi automatic cartridges that were was

246
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,720
ever made, and I'm pretty comfortable saying it's the oldest

247
00:17:20,759 --> 00:17:25,440
that's still around. There was some very odd or you know,

248
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:32,480
experimental ones from the like eighteen nineties, and people were

249
00:17:32,519 --> 00:17:37,720
just kind of arriving at what the profile of the

250
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:43,119
you know, of what of a reliable auto loading cartridge

251
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,359
would be. You know, there's still there's still rimmed rifles

252
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,400
like there's seven sixt two by fifty four is used

253
00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:54,759
in like the Dragon of SVD sniper rifle or you know,

254
00:17:55,039 --> 00:17:58,440
designated marksman's rifle is probably more accurate. You know. It's

255
00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:03,599
that old, you know, nineteenth century Russian cartridge that has

256
00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,039
the big fat rim on it. It doesn't have this

257
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,960
rebated you know what we call rimless, where there's basically

258
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:17,240
a milled section for an extractor to grab onto. And

259
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,759
the thirty two ACP is kind of in between, where

260
00:18:21,799 --> 00:18:27,119
it has a rim that's wider than the base of

261
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,599
the rest of the case, but it is rebated to

262
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:35,440
give the extractor something to grab. Interestingly, it's essentially the

263
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,599
same diameter as a three eighty ACP rim, which is

264
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:43,279
a rimless cartridge, you know, completely in line, which is

265
00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:46,839
why conversions from thirty two to three eighty are so

266
00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,680
easy because they essentially have the same rim diameter, and

267
00:18:51,759 --> 00:18:55,519
so in an awful lot of guns, like my Bretta

268
00:18:55,599 --> 00:18:59,640
eighty one, if I want to shoot three eighty in it,

269
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,880
you know, depending in the single stack, the three eighty

270
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,519
and the thirty two can load from the same magazines

271
00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:12,240
regardless of what its markings are. It just won't match

272
00:19:12,319 --> 00:19:15,960
up necessarily to the cartridge counter that's in the back

273
00:19:16,039 --> 00:19:20,799
of the magazine, the little hole you know, that indicates

274
00:19:20,799 --> 00:19:24,720
how loaded it is. You get an extra cartridge, typically

275
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,799
maybe two in a thirty two version over a three eighty,

276
00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:32,839
just because again the case diameter is lower. But for

277
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:37,079
that conversion you change out the barrel and then maybe

278
00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:42,359
the recoil spring, depending and then again maybe the magazine,

279
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,240
maybe not. But you don't have to mess with like

280
00:19:44,279 --> 00:19:47,079
the extractor or the ejector or anything like that. They're

281
00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:51,440
the same. And there's an interesting article from nineteen thirty

282
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,279
one in American Riflemen, and I learned about this from

283
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,559
Ed Harris, who I can circle back to shortly. Let's

284
00:19:58,599 --> 00:20:04,440
circle back. It's called almost the Best Small Pistol by JVK.

285
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:09,680
Wagar And this guy is extolling the virtues of the

286
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:17,119
cult nineteen oh three in thirty two ACP. And he's

287
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:22,519
a He does a lot of backcountry, you know, hiking

288
00:20:22,599 --> 00:20:29,400
and planking and ranching, and it's his favorite handgun because

289
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,240
of its accuracy, it's affordability. He talks about a lot

290
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:35,519
of stuff in this article that isn't the case for

291
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,559
us anymore in terms of like being able to like

292
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,160
order another another barrel and then like hand filing it

293
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,880
until it fits in your gun and stuff like that.

294
00:20:46,319 --> 00:20:51,519
But he makes the case that the that the thirty

295
00:20:51,559 --> 00:20:56,440
two ACP is more popular and more reliable than the

296
00:20:56,559 --> 00:21:03,119
three eighty because of that big ram. And my guess

297
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,759
is that's more it's more based on the time that

298
00:21:06,799 --> 00:21:09,640
it was written. I can see how that's feasible. I

299
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,720
can see that that's a feasible statement. Yeah, just an

300
00:21:12,759 --> 00:21:16,880
incredible pistol. It's smooth, it has all the it has

301
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:22,240
all the features that we would see as Carrie became

302
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,079
like really took off in like the nineteen nineties, where

303
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:28,839
you want that kind of smooth, melted slide. It's like

304
00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:31,960
one of the old indicators is like you could rub

305
00:21:32,319 --> 00:21:36,519
the gun on your face without carving yourself up. Other

306
00:21:36,599 --> 00:21:39,960
than like the sites right as a as a good

307
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,200
indicator that this is a good carry gun. That's not

308
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:42,839
going to be like.

309
00:21:42,799 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, every like every time I neck every time

310
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,640
I neck myself on one of these pistols, is what

311
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:48,160
the sites?

312
00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly exactly. So, yeah, very very nice pistol. And

313
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:59,839
it's also very cheap to reload it because it's incredibly efficient.

314
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:05,440
It requires a very small powder charge.

315
00:22:06,519 --> 00:22:09,279
Speaker 1: So if you go forward a couple of years, last

316
00:22:09,279 --> 00:22:15,599
one I pulled up wash was the Browning Oh also

317
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,640
showed the nineteen oh three cult there, but this one,

318
00:22:20,319 --> 00:22:25,680
this is not the more popular version of this, but

319
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:28,119
this is the one that came out first in nineteen

320
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:36,200
twenty nine. Let me share this here, here we go. Yummy,

321
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:44,160
you recognize that pp Walter pp pp. Yeah, you don't

322
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,000
even need What most people don't realize about this is

323
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,359
unless you have absolute gorilla hands, you don't need a thumb.

324
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,519
You don't need the magazine plate with the thumb thumb

325
00:22:57,559 --> 00:22:58,119
rest on it.

326
00:22:58,519 --> 00:23:01,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's more for like the PPE which is very tiny.

327
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,440
That the grip is shortened and the barrel and slider shortened.

328
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,319
Speaker 1: That's coming next. And this one doesn't even have one.

329
00:23:09,759 --> 00:23:14,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Now those are incredible. Those are incredible pistols.

330
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,920
And the you know, the provenance is something that that

331
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,640
people enjoy, and that was the you know, it's funny

332
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:23,359
the first time, you know, back in the nineties when

333
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,640
I was getting into guns, it kind of blew my

334
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,559
mind that people wanted, you know, being young and you know,

335
00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:35,119
raised by television and boomers. I was amazed that the

336
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,599
German marked ones would command a premium, and I just

337
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,960
kind of didn't get it. And later on I'm like, oh,

338
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:47,640
I get it. It's the provenance, right, yeah.

339
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, also you don't know where it's

340
00:23:53,319 --> 00:23:56,000
kind of hard. What's funny is on the Walter pps

341
00:23:56,079 --> 00:23:59,400
and the ppks, you can actually tell if they went

342
00:24:00,079 --> 00:24:03,759
by certain serial number ranges. You can tell whether they

343
00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:07,440
went to like high command or not. Yes, yes, So

344
00:24:07,559 --> 00:24:09,680
like this one on the this one on the screen,

345
00:24:09,839 --> 00:24:12,480
has this PPK on the screen has the markings. You

346
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:16,359
could see it on the barrel and right below the

347
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:17,799
right below the ejection chamber.

348
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is there was there were specific

349
00:24:23,559 --> 00:24:32,960
variants for the NSDAP members where they would order I

350
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:39,559
want to say, based on their their district that they

351
00:24:39,559 --> 00:24:43,440
would have. You know, the party was organized nationally and

352
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,839
then in these kind of subdistricts, and there are all

353
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:51,440
these interesting variants. I want to say, there's essay variants,

354
00:24:52,279 --> 00:24:55,960
there's it's really interesting. And of course those things command

355
00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:59,519
crazy premiums. If you can associate it with anyone, I

356
00:24:59,519 --> 00:25:03,279
think is it is that is that one kind of

357
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,319
higher end guy where you got your bayard was that?

358
00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:11,359
Is it historic investments or something like that. Legacy collectibles,

359
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,039
legacy collectibles, Yeah, the same concept, totally different words. Uh,

360
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:19,920
they had a whole bunch of those with Yeah, the

361
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,759
grips will have, you know, be a little more elaborate.

362
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:29,160
Some of them are engraved that it's it's it's really interesting.

363
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,759
Have you ever shot side by side a PPK in

364
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,200
three eighty versus a PPK and thirty two ACP?

365
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: I have not, No, I've only ever shot thirty two.

366
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: A CP three eighty is I don't want to say

367
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:50,039
borderline uncomfortable. Yeah, I'll say it's borderline uncomfortable for a

368
00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:53,519
lot of people. And it's just really snappy, whereas the

369
00:25:53,559 --> 00:25:56,680
thirty two ACP is like bam, And there isn't a

370
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:03,079
real there isn't a in real life power differential that

371
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,680
really justifies that. Like on paper, you can come up

372
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:13,680
with equations, you know, the muzzle energy equation is pretty simple.

373
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,319
It's it's weight times velocity essentially, right, and then you

374
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:23,599
get an energy number, which makes sense. But thirty two

375
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:30,039
ACP performs way above what on paper it seems like

376
00:26:30,079 --> 00:26:36,119
it should, and some of that is probably related to

377
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:46,240
the the longness and aerodynamic nature of the projectile versus

378
00:26:46,279 --> 00:26:49,319
like a three eighty, which is very blunt. A three

379
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:53,200
eighty is the same a cartridge. A three eighty cartridge

380
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,799
in the thirty two cartridge are exactly the same length

381
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,559
and the case. The cases are just as long, and

382
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:05,240
so you get this as a you know, narrower cartridge.

383
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:08,480
The thirty two has this taper to it, or you

384
00:27:08,519 --> 00:27:13,640
can get kind of like flat nosed lead hardcast bullets,

385
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,359
which I advocate and I know you're an enjoyer of

386
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,000
as well, and three eighty all have that kind of

387
00:27:22,039 --> 00:27:26,599
truncated short bullet extending out of the case, so they're

388
00:27:26,599 --> 00:27:29,279
a little less aerodynamic. And when you look at penetration,

389
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,920
thirty two beats three eighty pretty much across the board.

390
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,559
It's and then even in those kind of you know,

391
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,880
remember in the nineties, they there would be all those

392
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:45,599
I can't think of the name of the authors that

393
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,880
that would do these, but they would constantly be doing

394
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,920
these comparisons of like shootings and comparing cartridges and coming

395
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,119
up with like one shot stop percentiles and things like that,

396
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:04,039
and the three was performed much more poorly than the

397
00:28:04,039 --> 00:28:06,519
thirty two ACP, and that could be for a variety

398
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:11,640
of reasons. My theory is that thirty two was probably

399
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,599
more in the hands of someone who knew what they

400
00:28:13,599 --> 00:28:19,000
were doing versus a three eighty, although there's exceptions to that.

401
00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:23,279
I know people that would carry the absolute most powerful

402
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,680
cartridge and the smallest gun that they could get as

403
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:32,559
again almost as like a fetish, But typically thirty two

404
00:28:32,599 --> 00:28:35,440
ACP is just easier to shoot because it's a milder,

405
00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:41,599
milder recoil, muzzle, flip, et cetera. In the same size

406
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,440
of a gun, especially the tinier that you get, you know,

407
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,119
they become less controllable, even though we're not talking like

408
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:54,119
major energy, right. So it's interesting, but that's a consistent

409
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,480
story that you see even going back into like the

410
00:28:56,519 --> 00:28:59,720
teens and twenties from the people talking about them being

411
00:28:59,839 --> 00:29:04,119
used by police and military, is that the thirty two

412
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:10,240
was just as good. And I'll explain to you the

413
00:29:10,319 --> 00:29:14,680
reason I got into this cartridge, and it actually wasn't

414
00:29:14,759 --> 00:29:18,759
because of pocket pistols originally, even though I did have,

415
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,799
you know, I had a thirty two and three eighty

416
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,279
version of the celtechs that I was showing you before

417
00:29:25,359 --> 00:29:31,480
we started recording. When I was looking at and thinking

418
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:38,960
conceptually of like deep cover espionage type weapons, I came

419
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:45,440
across this fellow named Ed Harris. Ed Harris worked for

420
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,559
I believe he worked for the NR. Yeah, he worked

421
00:29:48,599 --> 00:29:52,519
for the NRA for some time doing all kinds of

422
00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:56,920
interesting things. He did a lot of research and handloading

423
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,480
when he was with the NRA. He started doing He

424
00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:06,599
got into thirty two ACP because there was a CIA

425
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:14,079
operative who approached then NRA headquarters in Washington, DC and

426
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:20,119
essentially said, I need your help because there are these

427
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,519
cartridges that we can't get anymore, and so would you

428
00:30:23,559 --> 00:30:26,200
be able there we go, So would you be able

429
00:30:26,279 --> 00:30:35,039
to handload a reliable cartridge that uses a hard cast

430
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,920
flatnose lead bullet and thirty two ACP that will run

431
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,519
in European pistols And he preferred the cult nineteen oh three,

432
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:50,720
but because he was operating in Central Europe, he wanted

433
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,680
to use the same kinds of guns that were being

434
00:30:53,759 --> 00:30:56,559
used on the ground there. And again at that time,

435
00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:00,559
even the police we're still carrying thirty two automatic a

436
00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:02,839
lot of the time. It wasn't until like the seventies

437
00:31:04,039 --> 00:31:08,599
and the eighties that they definitely moved the vast majority

438
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:15,559
over to nine millimeters. So Ed Harris started handloading and

439
00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:18,640
experimenting with these cartridges so that he could equip these

440
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:25,960
guys with high performance thirty two ACP cartridges that had

441
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,599
been made previously. So like if you go back to

442
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,599
the twenties, thirties and forties, there were these you know,

443
00:31:32,839 --> 00:31:39,480
lubed hard cast lead bullets that were being used and

444
00:31:39,799 --> 00:31:42,359
people knew what they were talking about. But at you know,

445
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,599
modernization resulted in commercial support for those kinds of cartridges

446
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,039
kind of going away as people started getting into you know,

447
00:31:53,359 --> 00:31:57,119
full bore stuff, et cetera in the civilian market in

448
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,640
the United States, and a lot of energy going in

449
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,799
that direct, so you could only really get ball ammo,

450
00:32:03,799 --> 00:32:09,720
meaning you know, full metal jacket thirty two acp. And

451
00:32:09,799 --> 00:32:14,799
as he was talking about this, my mind started wandering

452
00:32:14,839 --> 00:32:17,200
because I was also aware of the fact that like

453
00:32:17,319 --> 00:32:21,359
three eighty acp in a blowback pistol is a very

454
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:29,599
poor platform to use for suppressors. Same with nine x

455
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,680
eighteen macroovs. So even if you have a subsonic cartridge,

456
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,160
which they these are generally subsonic cartridges, these straight blowback

457
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:44,119
you know marginal in my terminology handgun cartridges. The problem is,

458
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,759
by the time you have a nine milimeter bore, like

459
00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:51,559
you need a nine milimeter like a nine x nineteen

460
00:32:51,839 --> 00:32:59,519
NATO sized suppressor just because the bore is so much larger,

461
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,799
and so you need a larger bore in the suppressor,

462
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,960
so you need a larger body to have volume. There's

463
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:14,359
all these equations for that tend to correspond to performance

464
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,519
in suppressors in shorthand there's other stuff that you can

465
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:22,880
do internally that really moves the needle, but there are

466
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,200
these basic equations. So by the time you get a

467
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,759
suppressor that will work with like a three eighty fairly reliably,

468
00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:34,160
it's very large and you might as well have a

469
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,119
nine x nineteen shooting you know, one hundred and forty

470
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,960
seven grain subsonics. And then the other side of the

471
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:45,000
equation pete as you probably remember this is suppress twenty

472
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:48,400
two pistols like as like a spy gun. We're like

473
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:55,240
a huge topic of conversation and people talk, Yeah, you have.

474
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,759
Speaker 1: To use those real close because you remember, if anybody

475
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:02,640
knows anything about the history the mob it was twenty

476
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,240
two long rifle was a number one mob caliber because

477
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,239
they'd go right up on somebody, press the press the

478
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,280
barrel against their head, shoot and it had enough power

479
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,039
to penetrate, but often not enough power to exit, so

480
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:17,239
it just scrambled the brain.

481
00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the mob was using suppress twenty two's a

482
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:26,000
lot in the sixties and seventies, and that this was

483
00:34:26,559 --> 00:34:30,760
the speculation was that this had been learned due to

484
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,079
like mob involvement and espionage type operations World War two,

485
00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:40,039
you know, through Vietnam, and so if you know the

486
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:44,400
history of those relationships like drug trafficking, et cetera, like

487
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,599
that makes total sense that there would be this overlap.

488
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,000
So yeah, so that's that is a point blank kind

489
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:58,599
of operation, especially when even with like optimized like forty

490
00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:03,360
grain subsonic out of a pistol Cartridge's stuff totally optimized

491
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,800
to just perform and have the lowest sound signature while

492
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,559
still having the maximum energy that you can get out

493
00:35:11,599 --> 00:35:15,239
of a twenty two LR and a suppressed pistol, the

494
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,119
energy levels are quite quite weak. And I had a

495
00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:21,599
friend who got shot in the face with a twenty two.

496
00:35:21,639 --> 00:35:25,000
It actually was right between the eyes and it didn't

497
00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:32,760
kill him. It entered and again bullets do weird things.

498
00:35:33,039 --> 00:35:39,840
It essentially turned as it as it broke through the

499
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,559
skull and just like skipped along the edge of the

500
00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:47,679
interior of the skull and almost basically went around his

501
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,079
brain and then stopped. And so he lived. He lived

502
00:35:51,079 --> 00:35:56,039
for another like fifteen sixteen years. Died for other reasons.

503
00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:02,000
But after that, I was just like, and that was

504
00:36:02,599 --> 00:36:04,599
pretty much point blank range. It was within like a

505
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:09,079
foot and I was just, you know, as I was

506
00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:11,679
thinking for writing my first book, Faction, I was like,

507
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,119
what did they actually use because you know, when you

508
00:36:15,159 --> 00:36:17,079
when you look at the stories from Vietnam and stuff,

509
00:36:17,079 --> 00:36:20,159
they would use those for like taking out geese and stuff.

510
00:36:20,159 --> 00:36:24,039
But they even had because because the the Vietnamese would

511
00:36:24,119 --> 00:36:28,079
use guard geese because geese are loud as hell, so

512
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,360
you know, as a little alarm on the edge of

513
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,280
like villages and encampments. So when you looked at what

514
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,519
they actually used for taking out dogs and sentries, they

515
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,679
used what they called the Hushpuppy, which is a Smith

516
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,159
and Wesson Model fifty nine that was modified to be

517
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:49,199
double stack and use express and everything like that. And

518
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,719
so I as I was thinking about that, I was like, well,

519
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:58,960
thirty two ACP is dead center midpoint energy wise between

520
00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,440
a subsonic twenty two LR. Let's just if we round

521
00:37:04,519 --> 00:37:07,599
up and say a thousand feet per second to just

522
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,519
barely be subsonic in a twenty two l R and

523
00:37:11,559 --> 00:37:15,239
one thousand feet per second nine millimeter one hundred forty

524
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:21,000
seven cartridge, the thirty two ACP is dead center on

525
00:37:21,079 --> 00:37:25,440
thousand feet per second, seventy three grain, seventy five grain,

526
00:37:25,639 --> 00:37:30,760
right still subsonic. And so I was thinking about it,

527
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,119
and I was like, this is this is the only

528
00:37:32,159 --> 00:37:35,079
way you can actually still have a small, you know,

529
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,840
simple technology suppressor that is actually going to be in

530
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:42,840
an effect of cartridge, because like if you look at

531
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,639
the penetration numbers and everything of thirty two ACP, you

532
00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:48,280
can actually it'll actually do the thing that you're trying

533
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,960
to do one hundred percent reliably or ninety nine point

534
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,239
ninety five percent reliably. There's no one hundred percent versus

535
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,559
a twenty two without being this giant nine millimeter. So

536
00:37:58,679 --> 00:38:02,400
that that's where I got into this. And as you know,

537
00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:05,079
you go back in time and this this story just

538
00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:09,679
plays out all throughout. Like the people that actually use

539
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,199
these guns, they need a gun and so having a

540
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:18,119
small pistol, you know, even as a deterrent, is better

541
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,440
than than not having one. It reduces your need to

542
00:38:21,519 --> 00:38:25,039
actually shoot, you know, you know, from a defensive perspective,

543
00:38:25,159 --> 00:38:29,800
theoretically in certain circumstances, or it's good enough, like you

544
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:34,360
just need to be trading shots to make problems go away,

545
00:38:34,559 --> 00:38:38,920
or you need to have a pistol that just meets

546
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:44,320
these minimum standards of performance, and to make them more

547
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,360
reliable you have to jump up to a much larger

548
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,199
and much more powerful gun. When I say reliable, I

549
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,400
mean in terms of like effectiveness on target, because all

550
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:57,480
pistols are fairly marginal. Unless you're talking like forty four

551
00:38:57,519 --> 00:39:01,400
magnum or something, then it has performed. It's equal to

552
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:05,880
rifles in many cases, so just harder to shoot than

553
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,559
a rifle because it's a handgun. So that is how

554
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:10,800
I kind of arrived at it. And like I said,

555
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,679
as you go back, that's why thirty two ACP lasted

556
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,920
for so long is because it just checked enough of

557
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,800
these boxes. It was effective enough to do the job

558
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:28,440
that it was intended to do for a very long time.

559
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:34,719
And tell, I think honestly, and tell, technology evolved enough

560
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,159
that it totally made sense to just pretty much move

561
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,559
other than like deep cover kind of guns, moving all

562
00:39:43,599 --> 00:39:46,239
the way to nine millimeter for this kind of stuff.

563
00:39:48,599 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 1: So two things. So if people want to get an idea.

564
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:56,320
On thirty two, Paul Harrell Rest in Peace probably one

565
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,840
of the greatest voices to. I mean, you could follow

566
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,559
us sleep listening to his videos. It's not that they're uninteresting,

567
00:40:04,559 --> 00:40:06,480
it's just he had a voice that you wanted to

568
00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:10,119
fall asleep to. Yeah, he has many videos on thirty two.

569
00:40:10,199 --> 00:40:13,800
He's got his thirty two ACP and African Sealed Carrie

570
00:40:14,119 --> 00:40:18,320
twenty two long Rifle twenty two twenty five versus thirty

571
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:23,159
twenty two versus twenty five versus thirty two ACP. He

572
00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:26,320
has an AMMOS selection. He actually has a video with

573
00:40:26,639 --> 00:40:30,360
plus P Buffalo Bore So that one's actually called will

574
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,760
the Guns Survive? So yeah, rest in Peace one of

575
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:40,159
the most heartbreaking farewell videos I've ever seen. Yeah, but yeah,

576
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:46,159
Paul Harrell a legend, A legend, all right, So let's

577
00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:49,480
go back in time a little bit. I will I

578
00:40:49,519 --> 00:40:52,280
will share this because there's pretty much no way where

579
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:55,400
we're going to be able to get away with talking

580
00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:01,280
about pistols without bringing this one up. See that guy.

581
00:41:00,519 --> 00:41:02,880
Speaker 2: Two world wars, right.

582
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,599
Speaker 1: Two world wars and what was the I actually heard

583
00:41:06,599 --> 00:41:10,880
the number yesterday listening to listening to a video a

584
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,800
Milin just catching up on all the sag drama. Someone

585
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,880
was saying that when they tested this against the Barretta,

586
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:23,480
it was one in one hundred and thirty seven rounds

587
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,960
had a stove pipe or a missfire, some kind of

588
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,800
malfunction of sorts. It was like with the Bretta it

589
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,880
was like ten times that it was like one in

590
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,480
like sixteen hundred or even higher. Yeah.

591
00:41:36,679 --> 00:41:41,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there, you know, you and I are of

592
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:44,559
close enough in age that we remember in the old

593
00:41:44,639 --> 00:41:48,920
days when hallow point cartridges were coming online that the

594
00:41:49,559 --> 00:41:54,280
every article that you read about a cool Carrie nineteen

595
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:57,599
eleven from some authors, they would they would get the

596
00:41:57,599 --> 00:42:01,199
barrel throated, which means that they, you know, would modify

597
00:42:01,679 --> 00:42:05,360
basically the chamber area a little bit to make sure

598
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,039
that it could feed hollow points and their and their profile.

599
00:42:09,119 --> 00:42:13,599
So instead of this rounded nose bullet that the blunter,

600
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,599
you know, edges of hollow points were catching on the

601
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,480
on the feed ramp and just in general, especially as

602
00:42:23,519 --> 00:42:25,599
these things got shot out. My dad was saying in

603
00:42:25,639 --> 00:42:28,559
that when he was in the army in the you know,

604
00:42:28,639 --> 00:42:33,000
late sixties, early seventies, every nineteen eleven he ever fired

605
00:42:33,119 --> 00:42:36,719
was a rattle trap. It was just thirty years old

606
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:41,360
and shot to pieces. So yeah, they really started having

607
00:42:41,519 --> 00:42:49,599
major issues with it. And even a high end, tight, accurate,

608
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:56,960
reliable nineteen eleven needs the loving care that often doesn't

609
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,920
happen in a military setting. So yeah, but still a great,

610
00:43:01,039 --> 00:43:04,960
a great pistol, a great ergonomics.

611
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: Well, the you know, one thing I will say is

612
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:13,519
that when you look at the progression of the nineteen eleven,

613
00:43:13,559 --> 00:43:15,679
I mean you come all the way up till today

614
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:28,599
and wider trigger, more longer tail, different hammers, smaller have

615
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:36,519
to get it throated special magazines. I mean, okay, yeah,

616
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,679
if you you know, if that's what you want, because

617
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,519
I mean, anyone who's ever shot in nineteen eleven knows

618
00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,480
it's an incredible experience. Oh yeah, the trigger is just

619
00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:53,679
everything about it is beautiful. But you know he didn't

620
00:43:53,679 --> 00:43:56,920
stop there when it came to designing pistol. No, oh no,

621
00:43:57,519 --> 00:44:00,280
he came you know, it got to the point where

622
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:05,440
he was like, okay, yeah, we need to put this

623
00:44:05,599 --> 00:44:08,960
out the Browning High Power or the P thirty five,

624
00:44:10,119 --> 00:44:17,960
and there's I mean, I have one. There is nothing

625
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,079
that needs to be done to this.

626
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:19,599
Speaker 2: No.

627
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, when FN reintroduced it

628
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,559
did an updated version of it in recent years, everybody

629
00:44:27,639 --> 00:44:30,199
was like, what are you doing? Yeah, why would you

630
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,239
do that? Yeah, the I mean the only thing that

631
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,320
you really saw change. I mean, there were some minor changes,

632
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,719
but really grips were really the only real difference that

633
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:41,280
you saw.

634
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 2: And I think that you know, yeah, the sites on

635
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,159
the original ones are small, and so sure it makes

636
00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:56,639
sense to have higher profile sites, you know, maybe tritium dots,

637
00:44:57,079 --> 00:45:01,199
et cetera, for you know, defect of use in low light.

638
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,599
And it's nice to have an ambidextrous thumb safety if

639
00:45:05,639 --> 00:45:09,760
you're left handed. If you're not, it's not necessary or

640
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,199
even you know, beneficial at all. It really doesn't need

641
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:20,000
very much. It's it fits the hand marvelously, and it

642
00:45:20,039 --> 00:45:24,920
took something like I'm comfortable saying so. Nineteen thirty five

643
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:28,960
is when this pistol was released. It was the first

644
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:35,360
double stack of any commercial success, the first double stack handgun.

645
00:45:38,159 --> 00:45:41,519
Thirteen rounds of nine millimeter and it took a very

646
00:45:41,559 --> 00:45:47,880
long time for it to be surpassed. And I'm comfortable

647
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,639
saying maybe it hasn't really been surpassed. It's just the

648
00:45:51,760 --> 00:46:00,000
compromises that need to be in place for like safety, reliability, accuracy, maintenance,

649
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:06,039
et cetera. That whole conversation that there there are modernizations

650
00:46:06,119 --> 00:46:09,480
that don't improve the operation of the gun for the

651
00:46:09,599 --> 00:46:15,280
end user until like parts start breaking, you know, from heavywear.

652
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:18,880
It's or like in a you know, a military kind

653
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,760
of armory type setting, it does make more sense to

654
00:46:22,679 --> 00:46:28,920
have certain kinds of evolutions, but very hard pistol to surpass.

655
00:46:30,639 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And people a lot of people like to say,

656
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,000
you know, in this I guess the boomers really did

657
00:46:41,039 --> 00:46:43,440
start this discussion, but I'm not going to blame it

658
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,239
on them. As the whole forty five versus nine millimeter,

659
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,559
you know, the nine millimeter will kill you, but the

660
00:46:50,599 --> 00:46:52,280
forty five will destroy your soul.

661
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,280
Speaker 2: Well, you know, the biggest problem with nine millimeter was

662
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:06,079
ball ammo because it high velocity and the ball ammo. Yeah,

663
00:47:06,079 --> 00:47:09,360
I mean a handgun is a handgun too, Like the

664
00:47:09,679 --> 00:47:13,760
the power of the forty five is overrated. I mean

665
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:18,519
it's a great cartridge, but it really was the development

666
00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:23,639
of hollow points that where the energy of the nine

667
00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:27,559
milimeter could really reliably be harnessed in transferring that energy

668
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:32,559
into a target. And again, the other value of the

669
00:47:32,639 --> 00:47:37,039
nine millimeter is that it's lower recoil and flatter shooting,

670
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,400
and it's easier to carry more of them or to

671
00:47:41,519 --> 00:47:44,119
fit in the gun that will still fit your hand

672
00:47:44,519 --> 00:47:48,639
are a wider variety of hands, and so shooting someone

673
00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:51,679
two or three times with a nine milimeter loaded with

674
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:56,880
hollow points that won't just zip right through is extremely

675
00:47:56,920 --> 00:48:01,079
effective and easy to do versus like a forty five

676
00:48:01,559 --> 00:48:05,440
kind of a setting. So it's it's really a lot

677
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:11,760
of it is this overlap of technology in theory and practice,

678
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:17,280
all kind of interacting with one another well to change

679
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:18,360
the way things you're done.

680
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: And the whole thing with the forty five is, is

681
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:29,599
that okay carrying a nineteen eleven? Yeah, come on, it's

682
00:48:30,159 --> 00:48:32,440
it's a really big carry gun. I know, people, I mean,

683
00:48:32,519 --> 00:48:35,280
and sometimes I carry a really bit. I carry my

684
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:39,239
high power sometimes, so I'm not but to carry that

685
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,480
all the time. And yes, you also have this issue

686
00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:46,960
of hollow points feeding. Now somebody who has a you

687
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,239
know somebody who has a thirty five hundred dollars nineteen

688
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,760
eleven screaming at me right now, I don't get any

689
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,440
malfunctions out of mind. Yeah, you got a thirty five

690
00:48:55,519 --> 00:48:58,559
hundred dollars. I mean, you've basically done everything you could

691
00:48:58,639 --> 00:49:01,320
to make this thing run when you could have bought

692
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:07,280
a glock thirty. Yeah, and yeah, it's the size of

693
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,280
a glock nineteen basically.

694
00:49:09,559 --> 00:49:09,639
Speaker 2: Ye.

695
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: And the arguments and arguments over as far as whether

696
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,000
you have whether you know, And I'm just saying glock

697
00:49:16,039 --> 00:49:18,559
thirty just because I know it will piss a lot

698
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:21,880
of people off that I mentioned clock. But I mean,

699
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:23,920
you have a gun that's going to run all day

700
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:29,119
and another week. And you know famously, I know you

701
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:32,639
heard the story about the like it was an Arizona

702
00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:35,920
I think he was an Arizona Highway patrol guy who

703
00:49:36,039 --> 00:49:38,960
was like not he wasn't the biggest gun guy, but

704
00:49:39,039 --> 00:49:43,159
they make them practice out there, and he had run

705
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,079
his like glock twenty two, like twelve thousand rounds without

706
00:49:46,119 --> 00:49:46,599
cleaning it.

707
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

708
00:49:49,039 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, So sure you can still carry forty You could

709
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:57,840
still carry forty five, but there are better weapons out there.

710
00:49:58,199 --> 00:50:02,880
There are more modern weapon bins are going to be

711
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:04,679
better for concealment and more reliable.

712
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:10,159
Speaker 2: It's interesting. There's a I was trying to find it.

713
00:50:10,639 --> 00:50:13,039
There was there's an image that I saw in a

714
00:50:13,079 --> 00:50:15,000
gun magazine a long time ago, and I was just

715
00:50:15,039 --> 00:50:17,719
searching for it and I can't find find it. But

716
00:50:18,199 --> 00:50:23,440
someone laid a high power on top of either glock

717
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:28,559
seventeen or glock nineteen, and it showed how fat the

718
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,119
glock nineteen was in all of its dimensions versus the

719
00:50:32,119 --> 00:50:36,199
sleekness of the high power, and that actually makes a

720
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:41,039
major difference when it comes to when it comes to

721
00:50:41,559 --> 00:50:47,039
carryability and fitting in your hand. So this is this

722
00:50:47,119 --> 00:50:50,719
is a pretty good comparison that I just put into

723
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:53,440
the chat. If you want to pull this image up.

724
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,639
Speaker 1: It's just blow this up first. Yeah, here we go.

725
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 2: The single action and nature and all metal milled action

726
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:12,480
of the high power the P thirty five allows for

727
00:51:12,519 --> 00:51:16,159
it to be a lot more compact. And again that

728
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,960
the glock is very economically made and that you just

729
00:51:20,039 --> 00:51:26,199
have this pretty basic slide with as little, you know,

730
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:31,000
as few milling operations as possible. And so when you

731
00:51:31,039 --> 00:51:34,679
look at that, if you've if you've never handled a

732
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,599
high power like it feels elegant in your hand. And

733
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:40,239
the magazine you.

734
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:42,519
Speaker 1: Said, I think you said one time to me that

735
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:48,039
it probably fits ninety fits ninety five percent of the

736
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:49,960
male hands in the world perfectly.

737
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much, Yeah, exactly exactly. It's it's just very

738
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,039
it's very nice.

739
00:51:59,159 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can you can go out there and

740
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:03,679
get them for and not you can get one used,

741
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,719
not more expensive than you can get you know, the

742
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:11,360
newer glocks blocks with all the you know, like mos

743
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:12,400
clock or something like that.

744
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly not as much.

745
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:18,800
Speaker 1: But so let me, uh, since we're talking about nine millimeters,

746
00:52:19,679 --> 00:52:24,119
let me share this one. See what you have to say.

747
00:52:23,599 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 2: Oh, po eight luger, I have a question for you.

748
00:52:28,119 --> 00:52:29,079
I think you have one.

749
00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: I do.

750
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:36,199
Speaker 2: Okay, So, uh, that is a that is a grip

751
00:52:36,199 --> 00:52:39,119
angle that works wonderfully for one hand shooting and not

752
00:52:39,159 --> 00:52:42,639
two hand shooting, right, correct.

753
00:52:43,559 --> 00:52:47,320
Speaker 1: I don't for the sake of my for any of

754
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,119
my channels, I will not say why. I believe that

755
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,559
you know, certain people liked it for one handed shooting. Yes,

756
00:52:58,159 --> 00:53:01,880
that's fair and probably aiming, probably aiming in a downward direction.

757
00:53:02,199 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 2: Well, so here's the thing though, is is in In

758
00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:10,679
ye olden days, shooting handguns with two hands was just

759
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:15,360
not done. It was the one hand gun and all

760
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:25,159
there's exceptions. So the great John Fitzgerald of Colt Handgun Company,

761
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,360
he was He was the guy who came up with

762
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:34,920
the FITS revolver concept, which I advocate and think is

763
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:41,639
very cool. But he actually wrote in a book called Shooting,

764
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,880
which he authored, I want to say in the twenties

765
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:50,159
he talked about shooting with two hands and the what

766
00:53:50,559 --> 00:53:55,639
Sykes and Fairbairn who were working for that, they essentially

767
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,719
they did all the combat training for that for the

768
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:04,360
Britgin Soe Special Operations Executive. They had come out of

769
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:10,599
the Shanghai Municipal Police and had developed some two handed

770
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:15,840
some limited two handed shooting techniques for longer distances, et cetera.

771
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:21,920
But otherwise it was done one handed and the sweep

772
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:28,159
that angle of the luger is beautiful for one handed shooting,

773
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,239
but what happens is you kind of break the wrist

774
00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:35,840
and it makes it a very natural point of aim.

775
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:42,159
But over time it like you can't shoot super high

776
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:47,360
volumes because the musculature of the wrist is less engaged

777
00:54:49,079 --> 00:54:54,000
versus like a nineteen eleven grip angle is or a

778
00:54:54,039 --> 00:54:58,559
glock or something like that. The steeper or I should say,

779
00:54:58,599 --> 00:55:04,000
the more vertical grip angles suit themselves really well to

780
00:55:04,119 --> 00:55:09,239
like a support hand. I had a styre. Uh, I

781
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,320
think it was a I had a forty caliber version

782
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:14,800
of it because it was hey, it was the aughts,

783
00:55:15,159 --> 00:55:16,719
or maybe yeah, I think I bought it in the

784
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,840
aughts and forty was all their age, and you had

785
00:55:21,039 --> 00:55:24,159
magazine capacity limitations and stuff. So yeah, so I'll get

786
00:55:24,159 --> 00:55:26,239
a you know, ten rounds of forty instead of ten

787
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,719
rounds a nine millimeter and it shot beautifully, but it

788
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:35,960
had a similar steep grip angle, and it wasn't great

789
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,239
for two handed shooting, but it was great for one

790
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:43,679
handed shooting. And you know, that was the style of

791
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:48,719
the early twentieth century, like even the the Cult single

792
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:53,199
action Army and the you know Cult eighteen sixties, you know,

793
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,679
all those those old pistols with these kind of crazy

794
00:55:57,519 --> 00:56:01,840
handles that they were designed for shooting with one hand.

795
00:56:02,599 --> 00:56:06,239
And then the Coult single action Army had that angle

796
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,880
because your thumb cocking and so the design is that

797
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:15,039
you fire it naturally kind of flips in your wrist.

798
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:19,440
You open up your thumb, you know, and you cock

799
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:22,920
with your thumb because you're on a horse and your

800
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,559
left hand is holding reins or something like that. And

801
00:56:26,639 --> 00:56:29,360
so you know, it was that's where the kind of

802
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:34,360
handgun shooting concept came from. Like it was very horseback oriented,

803
00:56:34,679 --> 00:56:36,480
or you would just be using one hand. So when

804
00:56:36,519 --> 00:56:39,519
you look at like bullseye shooting and target shooting and

805
00:56:39,599 --> 00:56:45,760
military shooting really until you know, around Vietnam, it's all

806
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:50,159
one handed shooting. Actually, I should say post Vietnam. It

807
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,679
was like that modern technique of the pistol that got

808
00:56:52,719 --> 00:56:59,480
developed in the competitive shooting organizations in competition circuits in

809
00:56:59,519 --> 00:57:02,199
Californi or any by guys like Jeff Cooper and these

810
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:07,599
other pistolos. It. You know, there there were specialty guys

811
00:57:07,639 --> 00:57:11,280
talking about shooting with two hands or for like really

812
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,920
long distance shooting with two hands. Otherwise it was a

813
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,440
one handed thing, which is where you get that kind

814
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:18,960
of wacky grip angle.

815
00:57:22,119 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: Let's go, I got two more to ship, two more

816
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,079
to share with you, and and we'll get out of here,

817
00:57:28,599 --> 00:57:28,960
all right.

818
00:57:29,039 --> 00:57:32,639
Speaker 2: So, and I have one last thought on cartridges that

819
00:57:33,079 --> 00:57:35,960
I want to call out that we can we can

820
00:57:36,039 --> 00:57:37,719
visit after we look at these other ones.

821
00:57:38,039 --> 00:57:43,119
Speaker 1: All right, the natural progression, yes.

822
00:57:45,039 --> 00:57:49,159
Speaker 2: Wonderful mechanism. So the beretta uses the same operating mechanism.

823
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:51,360
It's like a tilting lock.

824
00:57:52,039 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 1: So Walter P. Thirty eight form.

825
00:57:53,519 --> 00:58:02,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, beautiful, beautiful handgun, sinister looking very modern and uh yeah,

826
00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:07,639
great pistol. The post war like p ones and P

827
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:12,719
four's are nice. I really like that. The is it

828
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:15,800
the K there's like a P thirty eight K where

829
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:18,920
the front site is mounted to the band on the

830
00:58:19,519 --> 00:58:22,480
front of the slide and then the barrels bob to

831
00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:24,880
just in front of the slide. That is an extremely

832
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:27,599
cool pistol. Feels wonderful.

833
00:58:28,719 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, these were these were steel, the p the p

834
00:58:32,199 --> 00:58:33,599
ones were I think they were.

835
00:58:33,480 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 2: Illumined aluminum frames allainum.

836
00:58:35,679 --> 00:58:38,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're but they're great too. And these again

837
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,679
these in the hand or yeah, I mean just they

838
00:58:42,760 --> 00:58:45,400
feel like they belong there. And actually this is one

839
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,760
that is more apt to shooting with two hens because

840
00:58:49,079 --> 00:58:50,920
you just look at the look at the grip angle

841
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:51,159
on it.

842
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:57,079
Speaker 2: Yes, one hundred percent. And the really interesting things for

843
00:58:57,159 --> 00:59:01,039
me again, I love espionage type weapons and stuff, and

844
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:05,719
that the Germans were making suppressed versions of the P

845
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:09,800
thirty eight pretty much right away. A lot of them

846
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:14,800
had like massive, massive cans on them because they they

847
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:19,079
were pretty basic technology. They weren't doing like really shaped

848
00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:24,440
baffles like you would get in like a rifle cartridge.

849
00:59:26,119 --> 00:59:28,559
There was some degree of trying with that. But then

850
00:59:28,599 --> 00:59:31,199
they'd also have to like bleed off the energy because

851
00:59:31,239 --> 00:59:33,800
it's a supersonic round, and so then they would have

852
00:59:34,159 --> 00:59:38,960
specialty subsonic cartridges like way before anyone else was doing it.

853
00:59:39,239 --> 00:59:41,559
Very very cool. And then the West Germans were doing

854
00:59:41,639 --> 00:59:44,599
the same thing because again they had the they had

855
00:59:44,599 --> 00:59:47,440
their previous iterations to go on. So you'll see a

856
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:51,320
bunch of in like suppress or history books and things

857
00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:54,000
of that nature, you'll see some really cool P thirty

858
00:59:54,039 --> 01:00:00,599
eight and descended versions with cans. And again they run

859
01:00:00,679 --> 01:00:04,360
well even despite these giant cans, because the operating system

860
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:09,480
is different than like the browning tilting barrel lock. You know,

861
01:00:09,719 --> 01:00:15,599
So the browning mechanism, as the round fires and the

862
01:00:15,599 --> 01:00:21,400
slide starts moving, starts reciprocating, it disengages those locking lugs

863
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:26,559
and the barrel tilts up. There's a little link that

864
01:00:26,719 --> 01:00:31,639
sort of cams and that means that that gun is

865
01:00:31,719 --> 01:00:36,440
more sensitive to the weight of a suppressor, which is

866
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:43,159
why you have this device that wasn't invented until I

867
01:00:43,199 --> 01:00:49,119
think the late mid to late eighties that essentially has

868
01:00:49,159 --> 01:00:52,559
a spring in it that helps counteract some of the

869
01:00:52,599 --> 01:00:57,599
issues with the weight of the suppressor on the gun.

870
01:00:58,079 --> 01:01:02,960
And so that's why you have more complicated suppressor that'll

871
01:01:03,039 --> 01:01:07,440
run on like a tilting lock barrel. And the reason

872
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:11,039
the P thirty eights and burrettas were so popular in

873
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:15,679
espionage was because they don't require that because their barrel

874
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:20,039
doesn't doesn't tilt. It stays closer to like it's not

875
01:01:20,119 --> 01:01:22,400
a fixed barrel, but it's closer to that where the

876
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:27,679
locking mechanism is elsewhere instead of this, instead of the

877
01:01:27,679 --> 01:01:31,480
barrel tilting. So very interesting tidbit I thought I would share.

878
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 1: I will warrant anyone who wants to get one finds

879
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:40,760
a P thirty eight doesn't even depend on condition before

880
01:01:40,840 --> 01:01:43,159
you start shooting. It may take it to a gunsmith

881
01:01:43,199 --> 01:01:45,920
who knows what they're doing. The top covers on those

882
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:47,400
have a habit of popping off.

883
01:01:49,119 --> 01:01:52,639
Speaker 2: You should do that with any used pistol. You're probably

884
01:01:52,639 --> 01:01:55,079
going to want to change out all the springs and

885
01:01:55,119 --> 01:01:58,639
it's not like a glock where any retard like me

886
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,480
you can disassemble them really easily with a guy that

887
01:02:01,519 --> 01:02:04,199
you find online. Like, you need to be very careful

888
01:02:04,199 --> 01:02:07,519
about what you're doing, uh for changing out you know,

889
01:02:07,639 --> 01:02:11,719
like firing pin springs and you know, recoil springs pretty straightforward,

890
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:13,639
but like the main spring and all those things that

891
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:17,239
those are where parts, and especially in these older guns,

892
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,920
like there's a lot of stuff that can get worn

893
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,360
out and just break really easily, and you don't want

894
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,039
to do that, so good call out, Pete.

895
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna jump. I'm gonna piss people off

896
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,000
right now and just jump over a whole bunch of guns.

897
01:02:34,079 --> 01:02:37,400
But I said we could keep it in an hour,

898
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:41,760
and I'm just going to jump to like my you know,

899
01:02:42,559 --> 01:02:47,119
it might be my favorite modern gun, but I know

900
01:02:47,199 --> 01:02:50,159
this will jumping over some pistols will piss people off.

901
01:02:51,719 --> 01:03:00,039
Speaker 2: Mmm mm usp. That's a USP, right, yeah, Okay. I

902
01:03:00,159 --> 01:03:04,400
like usps a lot. They're great guns. There's a they

903
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:10,760
have an esthetic, they run really well, they're accurate. You

904
01:03:11,199 --> 01:03:17,079
can have some with amazing triggers. It's a it's a

905
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:22,719
exposed hammer, non striker fired gun, which tends, in my experience,

906
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:27,519
tends to correlate to a more enjoyable shooting experience in

907
01:03:27,599 --> 01:03:31,280
terms of a trigger pull and the like. Yeah. I

908
01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:34,599
like usps a lot. In fact, you know, you know

909
01:03:34,639 --> 01:03:38,400
that monstrosity, the Mark twenty three forty five that.

910
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:41,199
Speaker 1: Was don't say bad thing. Don't say bad things about

911
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:42,000
the Mark twenty three.

912
01:03:42,039 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 2: Now I like the Mark twenty three, but damn is

913
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:48,239
that thing huge. You can get a forty five acp

914
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:53,360
USP with a thread at barrel and it will do

915
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:57,440
what you need to do, maybe not lock the slide,

916
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:00,519
which is a feature I like, but but it'll do

917
01:04:00,639 --> 01:04:03,679
everything else and it's very enjoyable experience.

918
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. The one word that is constantly used if you

919
01:04:11,159 --> 01:04:13,280
if you go down like a YouTube rabbit hole of

920
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:21,519
USP videos, especially older ones, is over built. Yes, yeah,

921
01:04:21,679 --> 01:04:24,239
it's uh, you have a you have a polymer frame,

922
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:29,960
polymer frame. But when it comes to the slide, the

923
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:34,400
mechan I mean, there's there's a reason these are made

924
01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:38,559
to basically last. Is a polymer pistol that'll last one

925
01:04:38,599 --> 01:04:41,159
hundred years or two hundred years if you just take

926
01:04:41,199 --> 01:04:43,199
care of it. I mean, I just don't see, I

927
01:04:43,239 --> 01:04:44,360
don't see how you break these.

928
01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:52,960
Speaker 2: So I don't know, I don't know hk's uh manufacturing process,

929
01:04:53,159 --> 01:04:56,039
but I believe that the slides on the USBs are

930
01:04:56,039 --> 01:05:00,800
fully milled out. SIG does this interesting thing where they

931
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:05,480
essentially have three separate components. They have the top and

932
01:05:05,519 --> 01:05:09,159
then the two sides of the slide that are machined,

933
01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,760
and then they're welded together in a fixture and then

934
01:05:13,519 --> 01:05:17,000
have a final like milling and then polishing. And they

935
01:05:17,039 --> 01:05:20,639
do that because it's very cheap to do like very

936
01:05:20,679 --> 01:05:27,760
simple milling processes and then weld them together that way.

937
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:32,119
I'm not aware of it ever having been an issue

938
01:05:32,119 --> 01:05:35,400
in terms of like the robustness of when I'm talking

939
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:37,360
about six, I'm talking about like this is like the

940
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:40,239
two twenty, the two twenty five, the two twenty six,

941
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:44,440
the two twenty eight, twenty nine, that generation not not

942
01:05:44,639 --> 01:05:49,599
the shoot your dick off three twenty, but the the

943
01:05:50,199 --> 01:05:54,840
HK USP slides are beautifully milled. And again it's it's

944
01:05:54,920 --> 01:06:02,599
not a like high polish blued pistol, but it's shockingly

945
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:08,599
nice for that matt finish utilitarian look. It's they're just gorgeous.

946
01:06:09,679 --> 01:06:12,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you just know that it was built for

947
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,079
the military. Oh yeah, any military in the world can

948
01:06:15,199 --> 01:06:17,679
use this and go to war with it, and it's

949
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:18,920
going to stand up.

950
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 2: A military with a budget.

951
01:06:21,559 --> 01:06:28,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, that eliminates a bunch of them.

952
01:06:28,719 --> 01:06:33,159
Speaker 2: But with the either less corrupt or more corrupt, you know,

953
01:06:33,239 --> 01:06:36,079
procurement system than other parts of the world.

954
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:40,079
Speaker 1: No ship, All right, man, what did you what did

955
01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:41,320
you want to end up talking about? You want to

956
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:42,880
talk about cases? You want to talk about? What do

957
01:06:42,920 --> 01:06:43,519
you want to talk about?

958
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:48,679
Speaker 2: So we were talking about like hollow points and hard

959
01:06:48,719 --> 01:06:57,079
nosed lead and you know, FMJ ball Ammo and I

960
01:06:57,119 --> 01:06:59,559
just want to point this out. So we were talking

961
01:06:59,599 --> 01:07:04,559
about how nine millimeter was made relevant by Holow points,

962
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:06,440
and I stand by that. I think that if you're

963
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,719
shooting a nine milimeter as a defensive and carrying it

964
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:12,840
as a defensive weapon or it's your your house gun

965
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:15,679
or whatever, you should be using the highest quality Holow

966
01:07:15,679 --> 01:07:19,480
point ammunition that you can get. Like one good guideline.

967
01:07:19,760 --> 01:07:23,239
You know that it's kind of fits into like boomer advice,

968
01:07:24,280 --> 01:07:27,960
like Masad Aube type stuff. Find out what your local

969
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:32,000
police use and just buy that. It isn't like you

970
01:07:32,039 --> 01:07:34,840
get an out because of that. It's just a good

971
01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:40,599
reference point for quality quality ammunition that that should run well.

972
01:07:40,639 --> 01:07:43,519
If it runs well in your gun, keep it. If

973
01:07:43,519 --> 01:07:45,679
it doesn't run well in your gun, find something else

974
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:51,480
that's high quality that'll work. Thirty two ACP does not

975
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:57,159
have the energy to be wasting by using a Holow

976
01:07:57,159 --> 01:08:02,280
point because it's not going to overpenetrate the way that

977
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:06,960
like a nine millimeter ball cartridge will. It still has

978
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,760
a fair amount of penetration. Like the cartridge that I

979
01:08:10,840 --> 01:08:14,519
recommended to Pete that I know that he carries in

980
01:08:14,639 --> 01:08:17,720
his P thirty two and that I have in my

981
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:22,720
P thirty two and my eighty one is a buffalo bore,

982
01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:31,640
hard cast, flatnose lead seventy five grain bullet. And the

983
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:36,359
idea here is that this cartridge is too marginal to

984
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:43,159
be wasting penetration. You need that penetration for the bullet

985
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,039
to do the thing. It needs to be able to

986
01:08:46,039 --> 01:08:49,760
penetrate bone, it needs to be able to penetrate clothing

987
01:08:50,359 --> 01:08:54,760
and flesh. So when you see these videos of people

988
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,399
firing into this gelatin and they have this FBI like

989
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:02,760
optimal you know optimal math of you want it to

990
01:09:02,800 --> 01:09:05,720
penetrate like this much. The idea is that when the

991
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:09,520
FBI was developing that they were using like nine millimeter

992
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:13,840
and ten millimeter, the ball ammo for those things would

993
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:18,239
just zip right through. So the idea behind having the

994
01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:21,720
hollow points in that context is so that they open up.

995
01:09:21,880 --> 01:09:24,000
And yes, it does more damage and it creates a

996
01:09:24,039 --> 01:09:27,279
permanent wound cavity and all that, and then it stops

997
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:30,279
without just zipping right through and leaving no wound cavity,

998
01:09:31,399 --> 01:09:35,479
you don't have the benefit of all that extra energy

999
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:39,880
in a thirty two ACP. You want it to penetrate

1000
01:09:41,359 --> 01:09:43,520
three eighty. Is the same way. If you look at

1001
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:48,800
the performance of the hollow points in these cartridges, they

1002
01:09:50,079 --> 01:09:54,520
they just don't penetrate adequately and there's often feeding issues.

1003
01:09:55,039 --> 01:10:00,359
And so I would say use something that runs, use

1004
01:10:01,239 --> 01:10:05,800
something that the flatter nose rounds will do more damage.

1005
01:10:06,039 --> 01:10:10,039
And the reason I like hard flat nose lead is

1006
01:10:10,079 --> 01:10:13,800
that it's better than ball ammo in that you tend

1007
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:17,880
to get slightly higher velocities versus an equivalent weight for

1008
01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:21,000
a full metal jacket cartridge because of the drag that

1009
01:10:21,119 --> 01:10:27,159
gets imparted from the being metal versus lubricated lead. It

1010
01:10:27,159 --> 01:10:30,600
does require a little more cleaning a little more fastidiousness.

1011
01:10:31,960 --> 01:10:34,199
Usually you can use a bore cleaning solvent and just

1012
01:10:34,199 --> 01:10:36,000
slop it in there and let it hang out for

1013
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:38,880
a while before you brush it out with like a

1014
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:42,720
brass brush or something. But don't waste your time with

1015
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:46,199
hollow points in thirty two and three eighty. It's a

1016
01:10:46,239 --> 01:10:52,039
total waste of time. Good high quality ammunition at the

1017
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:57,239
that will run in your gun at those significant velocities.

1018
01:10:57,319 --> 01:11:02,279
And finally, the European pressure cartridges tend to work better

1019
01:11:02,359 --> 01:11:07,119
than American or European speck So that means a typically

1020
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:10,800
a seventy three grain bullet, it's going to be nine

1021
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:13,880
hundred to nine hundred and fifty fps in these like

1022
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:18,560
three to four inch length barrels versus the like an

1023
01:11:18,600 --> 01:11:25,279
American sixty grain jacketed hollow point or a seventy one

1024
01:11:25,359 --> 01:11:28,560
grain FMJ. It's going to be like eight hundred and

1025
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:31,600
fifty to nine hundred feet per second, just not enough

1026
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:38,319
and often not enough recoil impulse to operate like real guns.

1027
01:11:39,119 --> 01:11:41,359
Maybe not, Maybe it'll work in your gun, that's great,

1028
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:44,960
Like the sea camps were optimized for these. You know,

1029
01:11:46,399 --> 01:11:51,920
I think it's the silver tip hollow points, But you

1030
01:11:52,039 --> 01:11:54,760
just don't have the energy in those little tiny guns

1031
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:58,039
to be wasting it trying to get these things to

1032
01:11:58,079 --> 01:12:01,399
open up, and if they do open up, they don't

1033
01:12:01,399 --> 01:12:05,359
penetrate enough. So I just thought I would share that.

1034
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:09,760
Good luck finding AMMO for thirty two a cp uh.

1035
01:12:10,159 --> 01:12:13,119
It's a good opportunity become a fan of handloading so

1036
01:12:13,159 --> 01:12:15,199
that you can shoot it a lot like me.

1037
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:21,239
Speaker 1: All right, meh, I appreciate it. It's always fun to

1038
01:12:21,279 --> 01:12:22,399
do some gun autism.

1039
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, absolutely, thanks, great idea for a show.

1040
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I also have to shout out your appearances on

1041
01:12:29,399 --> 01:12:33,960
with Jay Burden on Jay Burden Show talking about guns.

1042
01:12:34,279 --> 01:12:36,600
He didn't give me the idea because you know, you

1043
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:39,479
and I have talked about guns before, but he sort

1044
01:12:39,479 --> 01:12:42,760
of gave me the idea. So yes, yes, mister Burden,

1045
01:12:43,199 --> 01:12:46,840
you get a shout out here for for this. G

1046
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:47,720
your plugs.

1047
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:53,039
Speaker 2: Thanks Pete Carl Doll dot substack dot com. That's k

1048
01:12:53,079 --> 01:12:56,800
A R L d a h L dot substack dot com.

1049
01:12:57,000 --> 01:12:59,800
That's where I do my my longer form effort posting.

1050
01:13:01,119 --> 01:13:08,760
I also post on the platform stupidly renamed X, which

1051
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,199
is how I'm always going to refer to it, not

1052
01:13:11,239 --> 01:13:12,960
only because it's a great way to put it. But

1053
01:13:13,119 --> 01:13:18,159
our dear departed friend z Man coined that phrase, and

1054
01:13:18,199 --> 01:13:21,760
so and I hate that platform with a passion, even

1055
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:26,079
though I'm an Internet addict, so I will use that terminology.

1056
01:13:26,479 --> 01:13:31,359
I have two books out, both available on Amazon. First

1057
01:13:31,399 --> 01:13:34,359
one is called Faction. The second is Faction with the Crusaders.

1058
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:41,800
Faction with the Crusaders is a nationalist, sympathetic fictional perspective

1059
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:47,000
on the Spanish Civil War with lots of fun gun autism,

1060
01:13:47,279 --> 01:13:52,319
but only when it's in service to the story. So

1061
01:13:52,399 --> 01:13:56,560
thanks for having me, Pete, and happy Friday.

1062
01:13:57,239 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 1: Happy Friday, and we will be talking soon, all right,

1063
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:17,359
take care, Thanks Pete.