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<v Speaker 1>Next on the drive, Tim McMahon dropping dimes for your

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<v Speaker 1>NBA daily assists.

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<v Speaker 2>Van McMahon Van mcman That is beating old Land, Texas

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<v Speaker 2>flood as its mud. He's and Manvan McMahon Van mcman

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<v Speaker 2>Then man.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, Tuesday afternoon. You know what that means. Time

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<v Speaker 1>for our Tuesday staple. And my goodness, gracious, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know how it's been for our guy, Tim McMahon over

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<v Speaker 1>the past seventy two hours. Tim, are you sleeping, are

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<v Speaker 1>you eating, are you hydrating or are you just working

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<v Speaker 1>right now?

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<v Speaker 3>I got a little bit of sleep the last couple

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<v Speaker 3>of nights, not so much the night before that. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't think I've had lunch. I've been in this particular

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<v Speaker 3>stop in the strip, but I'm seeing and breakfast in

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit of dinner show.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, my man, Well, I appreciate the time, and look,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like everybody else, I've been trying to make

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<v Speaker 1>sense of what's happened over the past few days. And

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<v Speaker 1>like everybody else, I've been trying to talk to people

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<v Speaker 1>around the league about if they knew about this, what

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<v Speaker 1>their thoughts were. I've had more than a few NBA

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<v Speaker 1>front office people text me and say this is simply

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<v Speaker 1>Dallas being concerned about his condition and is off the

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<v Speaker 1>court habits and his long term health and whether or

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<v Speaker 1>not he's durable. And then there are conspiracy theories left

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<v Speaker 1>and right. I guess I'm going Aukham's razor here and

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<v Speaker 1>just believing in the most basic of explanations.

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<v Speaker 4>But you're the guy for this.

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<v Speaker 1>Why would Dallas trade a twenty five year old Luka

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<v Speaker 1>Doncics right in the start of the prime of his career.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean the first one is the accurate one.

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<v Speaker 3>They did not feel that they can make a three

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<v Speaker 3>hundred and fifty million dollar investment, which would have been

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<v Speaker 3>a supermax number roughly in a player who has not

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<v Speaker 3>shown the willingness of the discipline to himself to conditioning

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<v Speaker 3>who you know, they're they're fearful, he's his body has

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<v Speaker 3>already broken down at the age of twenty five. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>he's missed uh twenty seven games already this season. They

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<v Speaker 3>don't feel like the messaging is getting through. They aren't

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<v Speaker 3>seeing the habits change. Honestly, they feel like in some

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<v Speaker 3>ways things have gotten worse. And look that stuff is

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<v Speaker 3>all the primary stuff. There's also like Luca has been

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<v Speaker 3>very attached, very aloof you know, there have been some

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<v Speaker 3>changes in the kind of behind the scene staff of

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<v Speaker 3>the Mavericks where they've fired a lot of people who

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<v Speaker 3>Luca considered considered his friends, you know, and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>as a result, at least partly as a result, the

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<v Speaker 3>communication between Luca's quote unquote body team and the Mavericks

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<v Speaker 3>was unpleasant and minimal, to say the least. The communication

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<v Speaker 3>between Luca and Nikhil Harrison has been minimal, And this

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<v Speaker 3>is where Nico ultimately decided, I don't trust him, I

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<v Speaker 3>don't want to rely on him. I don't care how

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<v Speaker 3>talent he is. I'm going to go get one of

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<v Speaker 3>my guys. And Anthony Davis has been more than Miikel

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<v Speaker 3>Harrison guys since Ad was a you know, a teenage

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<v Speaker 3>big time prospect and Mikol was throwing the basketball division

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<v Speaker 3>at niceties.

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<v Speaker 1>So ultimately, let me let me follow up, because you've

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<v Speaker 1>been on the ground there and you understand this dynamic

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<v Speaker 1>better than any media member I could talk to. Like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just simply of the opinion that you do not

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<v Speaker 1>trade him, that you do not trade Luka Doncicch at

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<v Speaker 1>twenty five years old, because in my opinion, he's one

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<v Speaker 1>of the top two or three players in pro basketball.

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think I'm alone.

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<v Speaker 1>So that, to me, Tim indicates that behind the scenes

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<v Speaker 1>it must be a lot worse than anybody indicates. Is

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<v Speaker 1>he just is he? Is he a malcontent? Is he

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<v Speaker 1>a pain? Does he great on people?

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<v Speaker 3>Like?

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<v Speaker 4>Just how bad has it become behind the scenes there?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, it is the difficult, is he high manlans? Yeah, sure,

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<v Speaker 3>one hundred percent. Are the conditioning concerned? Legitimate? Absolutely? Did

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<v Speaker 3>he Adams thirty four, ten and nine and leads the

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<v Speaker 3>team to the NBA Finals months ago? Yes? You know? And

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<v Speaker 3>so I'm with you as far as you just cannot

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<v Speaker 3>trade that type of talent during the state his career

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<v Speaker 3>when he should be enter any crime.

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<v Speaker 4>What has the reaction been?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I imagine I know the answer, But with

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<v Speaker 1>Mavericks fans, what what has been the town and tenor

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<v Speaker 1>of the fan base down there?

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<v Speaker 3>Indeed, it's it's Saturday when the Matticks are back home.

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<v Speaker 3>I fear it will be toxic act here. And I

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<v Speaker 3>could say there's been sing backlash, is I you know?

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<v Speaker 3>I saying Luca uh looked at a production season last year.

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<v Speaker 3>It's a massive understatement. Uh this This fan base is angry,

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<v Speaker 3>it is heartbroken, you know, as Luca felt Blines having

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<v Speaker 3>been in the trade, and the fan base feels out

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<v Speaker 3>as well. You know the answer. I mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>there's protests outside the American Airline Center. People are canceling

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<v Speaker 3>season safety. It's like it's not gonna it's gonna be

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<v Speaker 3>a not a not a nice vibe. I would say,

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<v Speaker 3>when the matters get back into town and I have

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<v Speaker 3>a home homestand coming up starting on Saturday.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of people, including our mutual friend Tom Haverstrow

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<v Speaker 1>who joined the show yesterday and his podcast partners, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they're they're bringing up this theory floated out by a

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<v Speaker 1>Dallas area attorney and I've read the Twitter threat and

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<v Speaker 1>I've read the reactions to it that this new ownership

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<v Speaker 1>group after Mark Cuban sold his majority shares last year.

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<v Speaker 1>This addleson group who has interest in Vegas, in the

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<v Speaker 1>Vegas Sands casino. This is a long term play for

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<v Speaker 1>them to take the Mavericks to Las Vegas. That doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>land with me, Tim. I would imagine only having Luca

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<v Speaker 1>on a roster gives you more leverage to do things

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<v Speaker 1>you want to do. But any is there any meat

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<v Speaker 1>on that bone at all? I I can't follow that logic.

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<v Speaker 1>But you're the guy for this.

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<v Speaker 3>What do you think you listen, I've seen that U.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think there's any meat on the bone. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't think that the NBA would allow the Mavericks to

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<v Speaker 3>move to Vegas where you know, ultimately they have plans

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<v Speaker 3>who have an expansion franchise that will pay a whole

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<v Speaker 3>lot of money to be there, you know, the whole

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<v Speaker 3>Adilson Dumont Las Vegas Sans groups ambitions are to get

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<v Speaker 3>gambling legalized in Dallas and to build a massive resort

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<v Speaker 3>casino to include the new arena. They already have all

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<v Speaker 3>this stuff in Vegas, so you know, I've seen all

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<v Speaker 3>that as well. I will say this, I was told

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<v Speaker 3>by somebody in that in that high powered Dallas attorney

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<v Speaker 3>community that this is a big time blow to any

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<v Speaker 3>any plans they had of accompition their goals of getting

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<v Speaker 3>gambling legalized, because frankly, I don't think that they understood

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<v Speaker 3>just the financial potential, financial financial ramifications of trading LUKA

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<v Speaker 3>DONCIS and trading the face of the franchise, who is

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<v Speaker 3>just adored, like by fan base, you know, the most

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<v Speaker 3>the most talented player in franchise history, for sure. And

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<v Speaker 3>that's a mouthful because Dirk scored thirty thousand some odd points.

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<v Speaker 3>And I can't say most popular because Dirk was there

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<v Speaker 3>so long and so beloved, but definitely the most spectacular,

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<v Speaker 3>no question about that. And those he sold a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of jerseys, He sold a lot of tickets, he sold

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of sponsorships, and I think all those things

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<v Speaker 3>are going to take a significant hit.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there any way before we get over to the

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<v Speaker 1>Lakers side of this, and then of course I want

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about the jazz side of this as well.

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<v Speaker 1>But is there any way? Because Luca is so good,

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<v Speaker 1>people are talking about Anthony Davis like he's Jerome James

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<v Speaker 1>for the Knicks. I mean, Anthony Davis is good and

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<v Speaker 1>he played in seventy two games last year. He's been

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<v Speaker 1>really good this year. Is there any way this works

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<v Speaker 1>out in Niko's favor? Can you expand your horizons to

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<v Speaker 1>get to that point?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, yeah, it's within the realm of possibility. I

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<v Speaker 3>would have done the trade, but it is within the

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<v Speaker 3>realm of possibility. I have talked to a couple of

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<v Speaker 3>gentlemanners who felt like this move made them better immediately.

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<v Speaker 3>It definitely crunches the time frame. You know, Nico's said

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<v Speaker 3>they're built to a now and in the future, then

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<v Speaker 3>clarify the features being the next three to four years,

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<v Speaker 3>which is interesting because the issue there is they start

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<v Speaker 3>having a fix theyo in twenty seven and then twenty eight,

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<v Speaker 3>in twenty nine of the thirty and by the play

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<v Speaker 3>the last three of those were their neighbors in Oklahoma

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<v Speaker 3>City to any other Chief Texas teams with picks and swaps,

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<v Speaker 3>But like Dallas is going to be eight if they

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<v Speaker 3>if they're healthy, this is going to be a team

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<v Speaker 3>that's a tough matchup in the playoffs for sure. And hey,

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<v Speaker 3>if they're right about Luca and he doesn't, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>dedicate himself as body breaks down, then yeah, he could

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<v Speaker 3>end up being right. I don't know the odds in

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<v Speaker 3>his favorite because again, just for the level of this

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<v Speaker 3>guy's talents, I mean, we're talking about one of the

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<v Speaker 3>best players through the age twenty five, maybe the best

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<v Speaker 3>what's ever seen.

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<v Speaker 1>No, you just you don't do this trade. You just don't.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm not going to back off that assertion. But

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<v Speaker 1>let me ask you the question that everybody's been kicking

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<v Speaker 1>around that I'm honestly conflicted about.

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<v Speaker 4>We had mcminimon on you yesterday. I kind of asked

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<v Speaker 4>him the same thing.

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<v Speaker 1>So I get the whole side of this, like why

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<v Speaker 1>didn't you open this up for business? Why didn't you

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<v Speaker 1>shop him to get a package that is better than

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<v Speaker 1>what you got? But I also understand that if you know,

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<v Speaker 1>according to your reporting and others, that Nico was just

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<v Speaker 1>long for Anthony Davis, maybe this was just tunnel vision

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<v Speaker 1>because that's the dude he wanted. But what's your take

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<v Speaker 1>on the dynamic of Nico not opening this up for

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<v Speaker 1>an open market bidding war.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I definitely have heard a lot of criticisms about that.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, the reason one is locked in Anthony Davis,

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<v Speaker 3>that's the guy he wanted. Two, he did not want

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<v Speaker 3>to give Luca and his agent, Bill Duffi, one of

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<v Speaker 3>the most respected agents in the league, a chance to

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<v Speaker 3>have any influence on this, a chance to you know, uh,

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<v Speaker 3>cut off discussions, you know, tell team we're not resigning

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<v Speaker 3>a chance to muddy the waters. That also, he wanted

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<v Speaker 3>this thing to be absolutely done in secrecy. That's the logic,

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<v Speaker 3>you know. I don't know, man, So yeah, it's I

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<v Speaker 3>would have at least wrote it out the rest of

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<v Speaker 3>the season, and they didn't want to. They didn't want

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<v Speaker 3>to mid season saga in terms of Luca's on the

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<v Speaker 3>block and all the drama went along with that. I

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<v Speaker 3>would have wrote it out the rest of the season

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<v Speaker 3>at the minimum. Yeah, and and and handle if you

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<v Speaker 3>want to handle out business, handle it in the summer.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I knew just how frustrated they were with him,

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<v Speaker 3>from Nico to Jason Kidd, you know, throughout for an office,

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<v Speaker 3>the you know, the code and staff, et cetera. I

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<v Speaker 3>even had people mentioned, you know, if we got trade,

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<v Speaker 3>will trade him. I thought they were blowing smoke. I'd

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<v Speaker 3>never imagine they would actually do it. I you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you hear a lot of people huff and puff, like, man,

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<v Speaker 3>all right, I'm glad you'll let off some steam there.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's be real. Well it was real.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, and I'm still stunned.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought maybe more information would come out after I

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<v Speaker 1>got the alert on my phone to this day to day,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's still as stunning right now as it was

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<v Speaker 1>when it happened.

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<v Speaker 4>The Lakers side of this, Tim.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, when it comes to people that believe that

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<v Speaker 1>the NBA is a scripted WWE league, they look at

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<v Speaker 1>the Lakers and they say Wilt to Cream, Cream to Magic,

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<v Speaker 1>Magic to Shaq and Kobe Shaq and Kobe Lebron, Lebron

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<v Speaker 1>to Luca. For me, it doesn't change my calculus on

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<v Speaker 1>them this year, but it does reset them for another

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<v Speaker 1>decade plus. What are your thoughts on what appears to

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<v Speaker 1>be just another slam dunk move for the LA Lakers.

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<v Speaker 4>What does this mean for them?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, obviously there's the risk of the hell stuff,

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<v Speaker 3>but they got the most talented twenty five year old

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<v Speaker 3>in the league right now. The mostly I mean, this

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<v Speaker 3>is a boon for the Lakers, and like you said,

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<v Speaker 3>it basically played with the Brons for the next probably

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<v Speaker 3>a year and a half and off the baton. You know.

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<v Speaker 3>The hope certainly is that he will learn from the

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<v Speaker 3>barn guy he idolized as a kid growing up in Slovenia.

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<v Speaker 3>That would be wise. Maybe this is the massive slap

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<v Speaker 3>in the face that Luken needs to really just lock

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<v Speaker 3>in to, you know, the around the clock professionalism that

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<v Speaker 3>you need to put yourself in a position to fully

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<v Speaker 3>achieved what is just immense potential. But dude, like the

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<v Speaker 3>Lakers had to do this, and then you know they've

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<v Speaker 3>got a huge hole center. Now the length was very clear.

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<v Speaker 3>That's gonna have to wait until the summer. I can

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<v Speaker 3>assure you this rim running BigMan will be lying enough

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<v Speaker 3>to out against the Lakers. I can guarantee you that.

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<v Speaker 4>No doubt, all right.

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<v Speaker 1>The portion of your reporting that has received the most

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<v Speaker 1>amount of tension around here is that the Utah Jazz

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<v Speaker 1>did not know what deal they were facilitating, and according

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<v Speaker 1>to what you and Ramona wrote, even Danny had only

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<v Speaker 1>about thirty minutes notice, according to your sources. Dave mcminniman

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<v Speaker 1>coroborated your source yesterday. Dave said his source says the

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<v Speaker 1>Jazz were quote flying blind.

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<v Speaker 4>How how like? How does this happen?

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<v Speaker 1>If you're one of the executives of the three teams

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<v Speaker 1>involved with the transaction, don't you want to know every

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<v Speaker 1>single detail about the transaction, including the fact that you

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<v Speaker 1>own their twenty twenty seven first round pick, top four

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<v Speaker 1>protected and suddenly you have just given them the ability

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<v Speaker 1>to make sure that pick is probably in the twenties.

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<v Speaker 4>This to me, tim is not a great look. So

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<v Speaker 4>unpack this for us.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, listen, I hear what you're saying that you're assuming

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<v Speaker 3>the Jazz are their only options, and they weren't. I

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<v Speaker 3>can promise you that the first I heard, the first

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<v Speaker 3>time I heard run this was and I got a

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<v Speaker 3>call from another team that say, I paid, what are

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<v Speaker 3>the Maps trying to do? They're trying to get us

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<v Speaker 3>to take on a sub five million dollars salary. I

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<v Speaker 3>think it's from another team and all those hellaces. They're

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<v Speaker 3>targeting a front court player. And so they were calling

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<v Speaker 3>around to, you know, to the handful of teams that

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<v Speaker 3>were in a position to facilitate this. And so it's

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<v Speaker 3>not like if Danny, if Danny Ainge and Justin Zanner

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<v Speaker 3>said okay, lay them on the brakes, we're not doing this,

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<v Speaker 3>that the deal falls apart. The deal would have still

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<v Speaker 3>gotten done. The Jazz just would have gotten a couple

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<v Speaker 3>of second round picks out of it.

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<v Speaker 1>So with what the Jazz have done over the past

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<v Speaker 1>few days to transactions really helping teams, the Clippers get

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<v Speaker 1>under the luxury tax, the Lakers get Luca, it appears

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<v Speaker 1>that Danny and Justin are simply willing to trade almost

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<v Speaker 1>everybody on the roster outside of the young kids they like,

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<v Speaker 1>and obviously marketing if any team is willing to give

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<v Speaker 1>up assets and draft capitals, so that leads us. I

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<v Speaker 1>was told this morning John Collins will not be playing

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<v Speaker 1>for the Jazz after Thursday.

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<v Speaker 4>Your thoughts on that then?

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<v Speaker 1>Of course Sexton, he's spraying his ankle last night and

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<v Speaker 1>Clarkson came in and actually played pretty well. I wondered

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<v Speaker 1>if any GM was watching last night. I was like, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe you can't help, but what do you anticipate between

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<v Speaker 1>now and Thursday afternoon here in Salt Lake from the Jazz.

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<v Speaker 3>I assure you there are plenty of scouts of jazz

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<v Speaker 3>games these days. I mean they're going to be They're

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<v Speaker 3>going to be busy. College has certainly played himself to

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<v Speaker 3>a point where you know there's interest there. I assume

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<v Speaker 3>something probably gets sell with him, and it wouldn't you know,

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<v Speaker 3>if you're asking me about those three guys in particular,

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<v Speaker 3>how many of them are traded? I probably put the

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<v Speaker 3>overrunner at one point five.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, now that that feels right. The last thing, how

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<v Speaker 1>does the how does the Butler thing play out? What

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<v Speaker 1>are your thoughts on the Jimmy Butler trade.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't have like it's gone from shipping anywhere to

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<v Speaker 3>Phoenix or bus. I just didn't like, dude, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>see a Phoenix trade. Brad may be able to have

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<v Speaker 3>to okay it, and there would have to be a

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<v Speaker 3>place he wants to go that wants to have them,

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<v Speaker 3>and I don't think that's the case right now. And

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<v Speaker 3>so you know, again, this like clear empowerment has taken

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<v Speaker 3>a pretty strong shift this week. I feel just with

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<v Speaker 3>the way the Jimmy say we'll see you know, the

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<v Speaker 3>Jimmy stuff it ain't over, but certainly with the way

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<v Speaker 3>that Luca was just blindsided and dumped, and then you

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<v Speaker 3>know the way that Jimmy saga has played out to

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<v Speaker 3>this point, it does feel like there's been this shift

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<v Speaker 3>where these are two cases of two superstars we just

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<v Speaker 3>haven't been able to get their way.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Well what a wild week, man. You guys have done

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<v Speaker 1>a great job. So keep up the great work. Tim,

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<v Speaker 1>appreciate the time. We'll set you loose.

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<v Speaker 4>Be good, Okay, I appreciate you.

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<v Speaker 3>Brother.

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<v Speaker 4>Tim McMahon covers THEES.

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<v Speaker 1>He covers the NBA for ESPN, specifically he's their Mavericks guy.

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<v Speaker 4>When the jazz are interesting, he's their jazz guy. He

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<v Speaker 4>wrote a.

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<v Speaker 1>Book about Luca that actually publishes March twenty fifth, and

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<v Speaker 1>he and Ramona Shelburne wrote that piece about detailing kind

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<v Speaker 1>of all the happenings how this all went down, and

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<v Speaker 1>Tim and Ramon are the one that reported the jazz

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<v Speaker 1>had no idea exactly which deal they were facilitating. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>Tim makes a good point if the weren't willing to

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<v Speaker 1>do this because I don't know, Like, let's say, Danny

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<v Speaker 1>and Justin got a call from Nico, got a call

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<v Speaker 1>from Rob Polenku, by the way, was dressed like he's

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<v Speaker 1>the lead singer of a bad Bond jovie band this

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<v Speaker 1>morning and said, look, we need you to send a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit of cash. In both of our directions. We're

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<v Speaker 1>going to ask you to absorb this young rookies not

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<v Speaker 1>a very good player. It's second you're actually Jalen Hood Chafino,

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<v Speaker 1>and for your troubles, we're going to give you two

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<v Speaker 1>second round picks. And what is happening is the Lakers

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<v Speaker 1>are getting Luka Doncic and really everything else is irrelevant.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, if they knew all the details of that trade,

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<v Speaker 1>do they still step in and do it now? To

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<v Speaker 1>Tim's point, the Dallas Mavericks and the LA Lakers had

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<v Speaker 1>other options at their disposal to try to make this happen,

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<v Speaker 1>so if the Jazz didn't do it, they wouldn't have

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<v Speaker 1>received two second round picks. Luca is a Laker, and

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<v Speaker 1>that twenty twenty seven LA Laker top four protected pick

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't look near as good as it did forty eight

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<v Speaker 1>hours ago. So we'll see if the Jazz are done

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<v Speaker 1>prior to that Thursday trade deadline