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<v Speaker 1>You see somethings going to happen.

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<v Speaker 2>What What's gonna happen?

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<v Speaker 1>What a.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the occult Rejects. This episode we got a

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<v Speaker 2>turning our returning guest. I'm very excited to get on

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<v Speaker 2>to be talking about this topic. We'll be talking about

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<v Speaker 2>the inny ads again from Platony's and on gnarcissism. But

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<v Speaker 2>before we get to arrows up, we will introduce the

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<v Speaker 2>other rejects on the show with us today. And I

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<v Speaker 2>got my man Ethan Indigo. What is going on? Sir?

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<v Speaker 2>How are you?

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you Nick for putting this together. Jules, great to

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<v Speaker 3>see you and speak with you always. Maros excited for

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<v Speaker 3>this learn learn a lot from you and easy to

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<v Speaker 3>find on the social media Ethan Indigo Smith. And you've

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<v Speaker 3>been written a couple of books and definitely appreciate people's

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<v Speaker 3>support and checking them out.

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<v Speaker 2>And yeah, thank you, so I appreciate it. Glad you

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<v Speaker 2>made it. And we got my main jewels. What is

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<v Speaker 2>going on? So the Mississippi Mystic, Yeah, that's even them.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you play that with the m M with them?

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<v Speaker 2>For Mason's the whole MM thing? Did you play that

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<v Speaker 2>with the m M two for Masons.

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<v Speaker 4>Maybe I played that.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I try to use the triple M to go

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<v Speaker 2>with like the ot.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, well, we'll never know what is going on.

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<v Speaker 5>I am Jeweles, host of the Gray Pill Podcast, and

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<v Speaker 5>I am the only, the only mystic for Mississippi. I

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<v Speaker 5>won't find any other ones down here. Nick, thank you

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<v Speaker 5>for having me on Ethan's good seeing you eris is good.

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<v Speaker 4>Meeting you guys.

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<v Speaker 5>Y'all can follow me on x that Great Pill Pod,

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<v Speaker 5>Great put Underscore podcast on Instagram, even though I barely

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<v Speaker 5>post on there. I need to work on that and

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<v Speaker 5>uh over on Rumble YouTube, Spotify, uh and Patreon, Patreon

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<v Speaker 5>if you want to support the show, Patreon dot com,

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<v Speaker 5>slash Great Pill Podcast. We just did an esoteric book review.

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<v Speaker 5>We discussed the Pisto Sophia, So it's funny. We're talking

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<v Speaker 5>gnosticism right now, and so yeah, it's probably u.

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<v Speaker 4>Nick won't be.

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<v Speaker 5>There for the next couple of weeks, so I know

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<v Speaker 5>we may not do it live. We may just do

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<v Speaker 5>it on Patreon. But it's every Saturday morning. We're doing

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<v Speaker 5>twin Peaks watch parties. A few few more of those left,

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<v Speaker 5>so I'll probably stream those live as well. But you

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<v Speaker 5>can go over there, support the show. That's the best way,

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<v Speaker 5>and uh yeah, happy to be here.

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<v Speaker 2>If you see me on the show next Saturday. From

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<v Speaker 2>an event, you know it's fucking it sucks and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not bored, and I jumped onto the live yeah yeah

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<v Speaker 2>right because if it is that bad, and I have

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<v Speaker 2>my shit set up because you know, the one at

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<v Speaker 2>arkisas I didn't want me to try to podcast. It's like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>if I ain't doing anything, I'm alse just jump on

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<v Speaker 2>with you anyway. I'm just being an event looking like

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<v Speaker 2>a loser. But uh, real quick before we introduce arrows too.

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<v Speaker 2>And first of all, I do want to repeat people

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<v Speaker 2>who listen to uh you know Jewels on here or whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>or the people on this YouTube channel that tend to

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<v Speaker 2>come here. If I'm not streaming it out on my end,

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<v Speaker 2>he's still doing that stuff on his end, So like,

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<v Speaker 2>go check out his YouTube channel and his rumble. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not always going to be sharing it, but I will

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<v Speaker 2>be there when I can. So I'm just trying to

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<v Speaker 2>get people to move over. You know what I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 2>I go over to his shit and check out the

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<v Speaker 2>book review. I love doing it. I think it's a

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<v Speaker 2>good time and I think it's worth listening to. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and then before we get to Aros, I just do

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<v Speaker 2>want to plug again. December, and I just keep fucking

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<v Speaker 2>saying that October eighteenth, I will be at Fort Myers

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<v Speaker 2>with Brook from Dark Florida will be there. She's a

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<v Speaker 2>speaker at Charlie's Beyond Believe shall have a booth as well.

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<v Speaker 2>There'll be if some of us there. It should be

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<v Speaker 2>a good time. And then on the twenty fifth and

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<v Speaker 2>twenty sixth that will be in Arkansas, a little rock, Arkansas,

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<v Speaker 2>there is a paranormal event that is two days and

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<v Speaker 2>it's at a museum and it's like two floors and

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<v Speaker 2>there'll be tons of vendors and all sorts of crazy shit.

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<v Speaker 2>Come check that out. They're all like cheap, like fifteen

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<v Speaker 2>or ten dollars apiece. So if you're interest, there's links

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<v Speaker 2>in the bottom for those events and they'll hopefully see

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<v Speaker 2>you that. And now finally we're gonna shut up, and

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<v Speaker 2>Arrows please let everybody know what your deal is. What's up?

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<v Speaker 1>Sure? Oh, I'm arrows Up. You can find me on

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube where I post some studies of the Naiads at

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<v Speaker 1>Arrows Up and then I'm on Twitter as arrows to

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<v Speaker 1>Ethos and Diane returning. So if you are so inclined

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<v Speaker 1>after watching this one, you might want to go look

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<v Speaker 1>at the go watch the other podcasts that we did

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<v Speaker 1>on the niads. We talked about are the Stars, causes

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<v Speaker 1>and multiplicity and chaos and all sorts of things.

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<v Speaker 2>Definitely, I really enjoyed that one one. So again, you

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<v Speaker 2>know what, if you don't mind too, that's reader yourself

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<v Speaker 2>with like repeat kind of like from the first one.

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<v Speaker 2>But again, like, how did you get into, like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>going to cover Platinis in the Enneads? You even found

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<v Speaker 2>out what fu Platinus was, however you say his name.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess just so a long journey of just exploring

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<v Speaker 1>different schools of thought, and I guess the most direct

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<v Speaker 1>path to neo Platonism was probably like looking into Christian mysticism,

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<v Speaker 1>like Saint Augustine, stuff like that, and then just following

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<v Speaker 1>those ideas back to Platinus.

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<v Speaker 2>See, that is something that I've really I'm glad you

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<v Speaker 2>kind of said that Christian mysticism. And again, I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>not knocking the religion at all, but I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>Christians realize how many certain basic ideas that they have

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<v Speaker 2>about maybe the afterlife or even their religion actually come

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<v Speaker 2>from this dupe. Like I've I could be wrong, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think like the whole idea of like oh I

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<v Speaker 2>might say my family and friends afterwards, like came from

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<v Speaker 2>kind of him. I could be wrong, but it was

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<v Speaker 2>just like, you know, that's that's a deep belief that

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of Christians hold that don't realize who gave

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<v Speaker 2>them that fucking idea, you know what I'm saying, Like

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<v Speaker 2>there's occultist out there and stuff that I've influenced Christianity

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<v Speaker 2>too in ways that I guess you wouldn't consume it

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<v Speaker 2>assume is bad because it sounds nice and it's sweet

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<v Speaker 2>and it is, but it's coming from people who aren't

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily looking at the religion the same way Christians are nowadays.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess That's what I'm trying to get at.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Yeah, especially Platinis is a pagan, and so that's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of funny that the whole like monotheistic uh metaphysics

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<v Speaker 1>kind of comes from a pagan.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And then like Basilio Ficino, basically you know, he

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<v Speaker 2>was the one who put his shit out and he

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<v Speaker 2>was he was the one who really helped cement kind

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<v Speaker 2>of using uh I guess, correlating pagan beliefs and other

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<v Speaker 2>religions and like you know, like Crawly seven seven seven

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<v Speaker 2>is with kind of like putting everything like this is

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<v Speaker 2>how that these all are the same character, it's just

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<v Speaker 2>different pantheons. That was kind of Facino who we even

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<v Speaker 2>did that too, and that brought a lot of like

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<v Speaker 2>stuff into Christianity, and I don't think people realize it's

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<v Speaker 2>very interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Yeah, Christianity also started out as a pantheon, so.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep. But uh on gnosticism, Now, this is a topic why,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the reason why I wanted to have you

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<v Speaker 2>cover this topic too. I think you both we both

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to talk about it at some point, but I

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<v Speaker 2>was a little bit more excited to talk about this

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<v Speaker 2>is because kind of like what I skim through, I

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<v Speaker 2>will save my opinion. Uh, I'm very much pro or

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<v Speaker 2>for what he's saying. I think I've said over and

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<v Speaker 2>over again since I've started covering you know, occultists or

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<v Speaker 2>oldest stuff, that a lot of stuff is getting human.

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<v Speaker 2>There's a lot of characters that aren't supposed to be

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<v Speaker 2>characters at all. And then they get stuck in that

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<v Speaker 2>and you kind of like lose, lose the whole thing

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<v Speaker 2>because now you're personifying energies and you're actually like thinking

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<v Speaker 2>it's a real deity. That's kind of what I got

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<v Speaker 2>out of it, and it was refreshing to see. I

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, Okay, I'm not the only answer who

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<v Speaker 2>thinks of that. You know, somebody thousands of years ago

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<v Speaker 2>was saying the same fucking shit. But uh yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>guess you know, again not knocking agnosticism or gnostics, but uh,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they're just a certain thing. I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I guess, Erros, I don't know where you

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<v Speaker 2>want to start off with the whole a gnosticism and

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<v Speaker 2>why you like that chapter or pick that one?

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<v Speaker 1>Well first time, do you mean deities as opposed to

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<v Speaker 1>like uh archetypes or patterns?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I know, like he was even saying that, I think,

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<v Speaker 2>like the whole idea of like Sophia, it was just

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<v Speaker 2>like kind of like fucking silly, you know, how like

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<v Speaker 2>an aon comes into existence and then like fucking decays.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just like God doesn't create shit like God's and

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<v Speaker 2>everything like he was and how the Gnostics would be like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>this is evil, Like he's like, no, there's God in you,

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<v Speaker 2>it's not. You know. He really looked at it a

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<v Speaker 2>lot differently and didn't didn't agree with agree with a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of their beliefs. Honestly, he thought it was from

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<v Speaker 2>when I got out and when I read in my thing,

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<v Speaker 2>like he kind of thought it was like bad, like

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<v Speaker 2>it really wasn't good to go down that road, right.

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<v Speaker 1>And I feel like a lot of people are gnostic,

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<v Speaker 1>like there are oh yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I called myself for it to it extent, gnosticgamistic, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's because I call myself a nastic because I would say,

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<v Speaker 2>I look at Christianity in a coldland.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's the probably the biggest like heretic group. But

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<v Speaker 1>I just don't think that when people talk about gnosticism,

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<v Speaker 1>they talk about like play and where these ideas kind

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<v Speaker 1>of come from. And so I think that if you

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<v Speaker 1>don't understand like uh, Timaeus and like the original concept

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<v Speaker 1>of the demi urge and stuff, then uh, I don't know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's just weird that we've kind of lost those

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<v Speaker 1>ideas and so many people are are gnostic. So I

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<v Speaker 1>think it is kind of important to at least talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it and the argument against it.

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<v Speaker 2>I would almost say, it's like you can kind of

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<v Speaker 2>look at like I've always uh, well me and I

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<v Speaker 2>can't even say I've said this myself. My friend Jordan

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<v Speaker 2>Barber said this, dude in the Oto. They used to

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<v Speaker 2>be in the Oto with uh like Wika to Thlima,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like Thelma's like Wicka is like you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Thelma l like you know what I'm saying. And I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like like if you were lik into like play

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<v Speaker 2>it over some of the older people, Platinus gnosticism would

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<v Speaker 2>be a way of like I'm trying to say this

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<v Speaker 2>right way, dumb it down and that actually looked too

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<v Speaker 2>deep and just have a story that kind of tells

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<v Speaker 2>you the tale and then unfortunately you just fall in

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<v Speaker 2>love with the characters and don't even realize that there

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<v Speaker 2>are archetypes. Something to that extent. I feel like that

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<v Speaker 2>that kind.

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<v Speaker 1>Of happens, yeah, potentially or a purposeful like divergence. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>But the reason I think say Thelema is, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>wick is the leam a light is you know, for

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<v Speaker 2>some people that may not know. Gerald Gardner was a

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<v Speaker 2>student of Alice da Crowley, and he was allowed to

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<v Speaker 2>open up an Oto lodge. He chose Wicked instead. It

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<v Speaker 2>was probably much more profitable.

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<v Speaker 6>Hmm.

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<v Speaker 1>So I guess I'm not sure how to pull up

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<v Speaker 1>the power point. I have a power point here, just

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<v Speaker 1>kind of going through the differences between Neoplatonism and Gnosticism

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<v Speaker 1>and Plato's arguments against it. And I tried to retain

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of his original sass in there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yo. He did have some sass.

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<v Speaker 6>Right, so so sassy yo.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was covering a shit, I was like, Yo,

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<v Speaker 2>I like this fucking dude. I was like, kind of

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<v Speaker 2>talk shit like, but in a good way. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I gotta learn how to talk like s throw shade

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<v Speaker 2>like this guy.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's pretty funny, especially towards.

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<v Speaker 2>The end, but it's like he'll use big words to

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<v Speaker 2>like call people stupid. Almost.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'm trying to think, I don't know. Lots of

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<v Speaker 1>sass in there. You'll definitely see it. So basically, the

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<v Speaker 1>reason that Platinists really even wrote this is because in

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<v Speaker 1>Alexandria and Rome at the time, and in his own

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<v Speaker 1>philosophical circles, there were a lot of people who considered

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<v Speaker 1>themselves Christians and Gnostics specifically influenced by like the Scythian

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<v Speaker 1>and Valentinian schools, and so they were influenced by like

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<v Speaker 1>Plato and Platinis's philosophy, but they kind of reinterpreted it

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<v Speaker 1>in a more dualistic and mythological way, right, so I

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<v Speaker 1>guess they if we were to kind of summarize, they

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<v Speaker 1>claimed the material world was evil and created by an

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<v Speaker 1>ignorant and malevolent demiurge, which is a lot different than

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<v Speaker 1>Plato's Timeeus's version of the demiurge. They despised the cosmos

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<v Speaker 1>and its ruler, seeing like the earth as a prison,

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<v Speaker 1>and they thought only us, this special spiritual elite, could

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<v Speaker 1>ascend to the divine realm. And uh, yeah, that was

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<v Speaker 1>one of the things.

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<v Speaker 2>I ever brought up. Sorry, did I remember that specifically?

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<v Speaker 2>I totally forgot to mention that earlier. That was like

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<v Speaker 2>another thing. He was like, what are these people? I

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<v Speaker 2>think they're fucking special, basically like come.

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<v Speaker 1>On, Yeah, And I think he was pretty upset that

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<v Speaker 1>they corrupted his like terminology and language of like emanation

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<v Speaker 1>intellect in the one and turned it into arrogance and

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<v Speaker 1>world hatred. So he's just trying to set the record

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<v Speaker 1>straight and then also defend Platonism from these distortions. So,

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<v Speaker 1>in contrast, Platinists believes that the universe is a living

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<v Speaker 1>organism filled with intelligence and beauty, that every level of reality,

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<v Speaker 1>even matter, participates in the good in its own way,

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<v Speaker 1>and that evil is privation of good, like it is

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<v Speaker 1>like a weaker form of the good, yes, but not evil,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not uh its own principle.

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<v Speaker 5>That that kind of goes along with when you read

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<v Speaker 5>about black magic, it talks about how there's an original

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<v Speaker 5>state of this blackness that's not evil, right, It's like this,

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<v Speaker 5>It's like they kind of messed up the definition of

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<v Speaker 5>it and the only it can only be considered evil

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<v Speaker 5>if or uh, you know, if we create it through

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<v Speaker 5>through black magic.

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<v Speaker 4>That the original blackness isn't evil kind of reminds me

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<v Speaker 4>of that.

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<v Speaker 2>Hmmm, they continue.

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<v Speaker 6>Let me see see. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically, he believes that true assent involve and involves love

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<v Speaker 1>and purification, not disdain for creation, and that the return

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<v Speaker 1>to the One should come from harm you with the

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<v Speaker 1>cosmic order, not rejection of it. Because the Gnostics also

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<v Speaker 1>believe in this return to the One, but just like

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<v Speaker 1>in a different way. As a rejection. So the Gnostic

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<v Speaker 1>creation story, there's this process that takes place in the

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<v Speaker 1>pleroma or the divine realm, which leads to creation. In

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<v Speaker 1>this process is it involves this figure Sophia, which is

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<v Speaker 1>like their version of the of Wisdom, I guess, and

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<v Speaker 1>they believe that.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, Roma, weren't we talking about the early jewels or something?

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<v Speaker 5>I was just saying this is it's crazy that because

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<v Speaker 5>we didn't plan to talk about that book.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, yeah, yeah that book. Actually we spun a

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<v Speaker 2>wheel on the screen to pick that book. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>It was a kids and they like to open the

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<v Speaker 4>garage door sometimes. But no, we definitely talked about the

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<v Speaker 4>How is it like this? These different dimensions? Uh, that

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<v Speaker 4>are all They all have their own angels and stuff.

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<v Speaker 4>It's fits. It's very uh, very interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>The this divine figure, I guess, moves from a state

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<v Speaker 1>of like repose or like rest peacefulness to action, and

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<v Speaker 1>that this movement creates the material world. And the cause

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<v Speaker 1>of this movement from resting to an active state that

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<v Speaker 1>created this creation or resulted in the creation, was from

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<v Speaker 1>Sophia experiencing a desire or stirring to know the unknowable

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<v Speaker 1>or to emulate creation. And the divine, and that this

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<v Speaker 1>disrupted the perfect harmony of the Pleroma, which introduced imperfection

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<v Speaker 1>and the creation of the demiurge.

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<v Speaker 2>The painting is bugged out. I was stuck on that

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<v Speaker 2>for a moment.

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<v Speaker 5>I was gonna say, you can always share, like share

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<v Speaker 5>the screen if if the whole PDF thing doesn't work

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<v Speaker 5>and stream, but it's up to you.

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<v Speaker 6>Oh you can't see the image very well?

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, we Yeah, it just sometimes like if you

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<v Speaker 2>bring it up as an image, you can blow it up bigger.

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<v Speaker 2>It's one thing that sucks about slides sliders on your mousepad.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you have a Mac? It's too much fun to do. Okay, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just bugged out. I was just like, I feel

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<v Speaker 2>like there's like a lot of ship in there. It's

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<v Speaker 2>weird problem, Like I feel like this part of the

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<v Speaker 2>art is like to look like different ship looks like

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<v Speaker 2>a wheel spoken like one of the legs.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, I was like, is there sigils in there that

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<v Speaker 2>I get all that weirdy?

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<v Speaker 3>Someone in the chad just mentioned Samsara and and it

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<v Speaker 3>made me think of how Samsara is like the imperfected

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<v Speaker 3>world that we live in, which is from nirvana, which

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<v Speaker 3>is like the.

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<v Speaker 4>If you will right right, right, yeah, just a different

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<v Speaker 4>name for it, right.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of a lot of correspondence. There, certainly excuse me, arrows,

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<v Speaker 3>Oh no, yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't apologize. Please jump in at any time, So

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<v Speaker 1>I guess. He kind of starts out his argument with

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<v Speaker 1>some important quotes.

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<v Speaker 6>So he.

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<v Speaker 1>Explains that the good is primal, the most absolutely simplex

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<v Speaker 1>and integral unity. The secondary can never be simplex. It

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<v Speaker 1>contains nothing, and that the good is self sufficing in

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<v Speaker 1>the sense that it is not of that compound nature

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<v Speaker 1>which would make it dependent upon any constituent. So it's

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<v Speaker 1>self contained, deriving from nothing alien, entering into nothing alien

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<v Speaker 1>in no way a made up thing. There can be

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<v Speaker 1>nothing above it, because there's this idea that that there

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<v Speaker 1>is like no beginning and end to it.

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<v Speaker 6>And so.

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<v Speaker 1>He begins his argument against the Gnostics and their creation

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<v Speaker 1>story with the following quote, They will scarcely urge upon

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<v Speaker 1>us the doubling of the principle and act by a

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<v Speaker 1>principle and potentiality. It is absurd to seek such plurality

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<v Speaker 1>by distinguishing between potentiality and actuality. In the case of

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<v Speaker 1>immaterial beings whose existence is an act. Even in lower forms,

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<v Speaker 1>no such division can be made. And we cannot conceive

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<v Speaker 1>a duality in the intellectual principle, one phase in some

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<v Speaker 1>vague claim another all uster Under what form can we

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<v Speaker 1>think of repose in the intellectual principle as contrasted with

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<v Speaker 1>its movement or utterance? What would the quiescence of the

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<v Speaker 1>one phase be as against the energy of the other.

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<v Speaker 1>So what he's really saying there is that the creation

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<v Speaker 1>story holds this belief that the divine exists in those

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<v Speaker 1>two states in potential, in that reposed state, the wanting

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<v Speaker 1>or desiring something state, and then another state, which would

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<v Speaker 1>be act, doing something, creating, falling right, Because that's how

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<v Speaker 1>they believe that creation came to be, is from Sophia

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<v Speaker 1>stirring from that repose to movement by that desire. So

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<v Speaker 1>Platinus argues, potentiality only makes sense for things that can

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<v Speaker 1>change immaterial intelligence, such as you know what Sophia would

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<v Speaker 1>be because this is before her descent, before she came

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<v Speaker 1>to have a body. They have no potential. They are

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<v Speaker 1>pure act and the divine is pure actuality or pure activity,

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<v Speaker 1>and that there can't be two phases in intellect. It

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<v Speaker 1>is that unified activity rest in motion are material metaphors.

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<v Speaker 1>The divine is timeless and always fully itself. It never

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<v Speaker 1>stops and starts. So it's like he's pointing out that

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<v Speaker 1>Sophia is like a very for a divine being without

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<v Speaker 1>a body. It exists like a human and that just

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<v Speaker 1>does not make sense for the higher realms.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's kind of what I was getting at earlier.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like how people would like take something that

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<v Speaker 2>really can't be put into human form, that it's not

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<v Speaker 2>meant to be, and it kind of will screw it up,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, and it's unfortunate. I mean, we do it

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<v Speaker 2>in me myself, I'm sure in our own ways. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>we do find ways to come not in love, but

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<v Speaker 2>been dazzled by like characters. You know what I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. So do you think that can screw

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<v Speaker 2>stuff up?

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<v Speaker 6>All right?

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<v Speaker 1>Let's see, there's this quote. To ask why the soul

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<v Speaker 1>has created the cosmos is to ask why there is

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<v Speaker 1>a soul and why a creator creates. The question also

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<v Speaker 1>implies a beginning in the eternal and further represents creation

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<v Speaker 1>as the act of a changeable being who turns from

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<v Speaker 1>this to that and then this is kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>sassy little thing. Those that so think must be instructed

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<v Speaker 1>if they would but bear with correction in the nature

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<v Speaker 1>of the sopernals, and brought to desist from that blasphemy

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<v Speaker 1>of majestic powers which comes so easily to them, where

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<v Speaker 1>all should be reverenced gruple. It's kind of like making

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<v Speaker 1>fun of them for thinking that they are like elite

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<v Speaker 1>and even above the demiurge. Okay, this is hilarious to me,

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<v Speaker 1>the contrary's supposition, and would give us two beings, one

401
00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:05.000
<v Speaker 1>that merely knows, in another a separate being.

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<v Speaker 6>That knows of the act of knowing.

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<v Speaker 1>If we are answered that the distinction is merely a

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<v Speaker 1>process of our thought, then at once the theory of

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<v Speaker 1>a further hyposthesis is abandoned. Further, the question is opened

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<v Speaker 1>whether our thought can entertain and knowing principle so narrowed

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<v Speaker 1>to its knowing as to not know that it knows,

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<v Speaker 1>a limitation which would be charged as imbecility even in ourselves,

409
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<v Speaker 1>who if but a very ordinary moral forces are always

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<v Speaker 1>master of our emotions and mental processes. The absurdity becomes

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<v Speaker 1>still more blatant if we introduce yet a further distinction

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<v Speaker 1>after that, which affirms the knowledge of the knowing, a

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<v Speaker 1>third distinction affirming the knowing of the knowledge.

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<v Speaker 6>Of the knowing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yet there is no reason against carrying on the division

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<v Speaker 1>forever and ever. So you can know and not know

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<v Speaker 1>that you're knowing, but you can't know that you know

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<v Speaker 1>and not know of the knowing.

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<v Speaker 3>That you know.

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<v Speaker 2>It'd be totally honest. I think that word no knowing

421
00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:22.319
<v Speaker 2>and knowledge is totally fucking misused constantly.

422
00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:25.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it means completely different.

423
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:29.480
<v Speaker 2>Now probably you know, well, like listen, well, like I'm

424
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:31.359
<v Speaker 2>just gonna keep it real. Let me put it this way,

425
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:35.880
<v Speaker 2>like people listening to the show, you can only take

426
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.519
<v Speaker 2>our stuff as a faith of belief until you've actually

427
00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:40.920
<v Speaker 2>had an experience with it. Then, once you've had that

428
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:44.400
<v Speaker 2>experience and whatever we said might fucking fit your experience,

429
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:47.119
<v Speaker 2>then it might be knowledge or knowing. But until then

430
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:51.640
<v Speaker 2>it's actually not. You know, I could I could read

431
00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:54.319
<v Speaker 2>a book. I could pick up Crowley right now and

432
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:56.440
<v Speaker 2>spend ten hours reading a book and literally put it

433
00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.279
<v Speaker 2>down and polace say, I really don't understand half of

434
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:00.319
<v Speaker 2>the shit I read in there. Just because I fucking

435
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.240
<v Speaker 2>read it doesn't mean it equals up. Yeah, I have

436
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:05.119
<v Speaker 2>to comprehend what the fun I'm reading first.

437
00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:08.960
<v Speaker 4>I don't know anything, dude, Right, that you know something

438
00:29:09.079 --> 00:29:09.920
<v Speaker 4>is to know nothing.

439
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:12.519
<v Speaker 2>So no, But I just like, even like how we

440
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:15.599
<v Speaker 2>use words nowadays, it's like it's not even fucking correct,

441
00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:18.359
<v Speaker 2>you know, especially when we're going to our own heads off.

442
00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:23.160
<v Speaker 5>I think it changes more than just the word, right,

443
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:24.920
<v Speaker 5>It changes the meaning behind it.

444
00:29:24.920 --> 00:29:28.559
<v Speaker 4>It changes, you know, stuff that's happening in our world.

445
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:32.559
<v Speaker 5>That goes back to how all this stuff is connected,

446
00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:38.440
<v Speaker 5>you know, spiritually. But I digress.

447
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:40.599
<v Speaker 2>Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

448
00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.559
<v Speaker 3>Well, the polarity of the known and unknowns and the

449
00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.119
<v Speaker 3>response of knowing it reminds me of I think it

450
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:53.119
<v Speaker 3>was Aristotle who put forth the idea of the move

451
00:29:53.359 --> 00:29:58.880
<v Speaker 3>the unmoved, and the unmoved, mover and the moved, and

452
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:02.799
<v Speaker 3>it has this kind of sense about that. And there

453
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.759
<v Speaker 3>is also kind of a way to look at information

454
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:12.759
<v Speaker 3>as known knowns and unknown knownes and so forth, and

455
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:15.920
<v Speaker 3>it can get a bit redundant and kind of confusing.

456
00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:19.599
<v Speaker 3>But essentially, there's things that we know that we don't know,

457
00:30:20.839 --> 00:30:24.160
<v Speaker 3>and there's things that we know that we know, and

458
00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:28.720
<v Speaker 3>then the unknown uh nones that gets to be kind

459
00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:33.880
<v Speaker 3>of level of intuition too, writ like from where did

460
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:39.680
<v Speaker 3>we know this unknown? So it gets a little bit

461
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:45.279
<v Speaker 3>redundant and hard to definitely hard to put forth, and

462
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:49.720
<v Speaker 3>and someone just deaf Knoxter, I like your name just

463
00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:53.720
<v Speaker 3>put forth. That is very Rumsfeldian for Rumsfeld to point

464
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:57.160
<v Speaker 3>it out this one time in a really crude notion.

465
00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:00.599
<v Speaker 3>And but he only pointed out three. There was actually

466
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:04.519
<v Speaker 3>a fourth type if you really get into it. But

467
00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:09.799
<v Speaker 3>interesting that that whole series, that whole couple of paragraphs

468
00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:15.640
<v Speaker 3>is very interesting. And the two beings reminds me of

469
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:22.240
<v Speaker 3>I maybe even in in this chapter Eros you might

470
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:30.480
<v Speaker 3>know about the the house and the two brothers, I

471
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:35.000
<v Speaker 3>do not know, Okay, No, it made me think of that,

472
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:39.680
<v Speaker 3>which I think it was essentially one way to look

473
00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:46.720
<v Speaker 3>at the divergence of the Gnostics and the Neoplatonists. Was

474
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:52.240
<v Speaker 3>two brothers in a house and one is just totally

475
00:31:52.279 --> 00:31:57.920
<v Speaker 3>disappointed in the flaws of the structure and can't really

476
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:02.559
<v Speaker 3>get past that. And the other brother is totally aware

477
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:05.640
<v Speaker 3>that the house is flawed and there's things that need

478
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:08.880
<v Speaker 3>to be fixed, but he also wants to go forth

479
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:12.640
<v Speaker 3>and I live, you know, without being held back.

480
00:32:12.680 --> 00:32:13.000
<v Speaker 2>By that.

481
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.839
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yeah, actually yes he does mention that in this

482
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:24.119
<v Speaker 1>chapter now that you're refreshing my memory, gosh, he says

483
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:38.279
<v Speaker 1>that it's a matter of necessity, like accepting necessity. That

484
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:43.599
<v Speaker 1>you know, the one that's always unhappy with the architecture

485
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:48.640
<v Speaker 1>just can't accept necessity the other, does.

486
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:53.920
<v Speaker 2>You know? It was another thing I just wanted to

487
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.880
<v Speaker 2>add in with. I think his the whole thing with

488
00:32:56.920 --> 00:33:00.559
<v Speaker 2>the elite and stuff. I haven't want to like, you know,

489
00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:02.279
<v Speaker 2>if you want to start playing again on the word

490
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:05.599
<v Speaker 2>nosis or knowing and all that stuff. I also do

491
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:09.559
<v Speaker 2>think like Plotinus was big on I think you called

492
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:12.119
<v Speaker 2>it hernosis. I could be wrong, and that to me,

493
00:33:13.079 --> 00:33:14.880
<v Speaker 2>to me, the way he explained it, that was crossing

494
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.279
<v Speaker 2>the Abyss, and I think he had even claimed that

495
00:33:17.319 --> 00:33:22.359
<v Speaker 2>he had did it like four times, you know for

496
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:24.799
<v Speaker 2>a cult. This for myself is that that's when I

497
00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:28.599
<v Speaker 2>have a knowing because now I've actually experienced both sides,

498
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:31.440
<v Speaker 2>and there's certain things that you know now because if

499
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:38.640
<v Speaker 2>you've experienced it, the people who have that experience can well.

500
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:41.400
<v Speaker 2>The reason where all this fucking humanity is fucked up

501
00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:45.319
<v Speaker 2>is because people who have that experience take you know,

502
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:48.319
<v Speaker 2>take advantage of the people the massive you know, again,

503
00:33:48.359 --> 00:33:50.319
<v Speaker 2>like ninety three percent of the population will never have

504
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.599
<v Speaker 2>that fucking experience, probably so that that little bit percent

505
00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:57.319
<v Speaker 2>can manipulate everybody else if they want to. So I

506
00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:00.519
<v Speaker 2>could see like maybe like that whole idea of like,

507
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:03.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, those people thinking they're they're the elite. I mean,

508
00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:06.880
<v Speaker 2>technically they are more elite amongst the population because of

509
00:34:06.920 --> 00:34:10.320
<v Speaker 2>their understanding of the human psyche and reality. So I'm

510
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:11.840
<v Speaker 2>even wondering if you even like kind of looked at

511
00:34:11.840 --> 00:34:13.679
<v Speaker 2>it that way, is that he understood that, like some

512
00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:16.360
<v Speaker 2>of these people do understand what the fuck's going on,

513
00:34:16.400 --> 00:34:18.760
<v Speaker 2>and they're actually just being pieces of shit about it.

514
00:34:19.880 --> 00:34:22.880
<v Speaker 2>You know, they're selling people fucking bullshit they're taking advantage of.

515
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:27.360
<v Speaker 2>You know, I've wondered because you know, of knowing how

516
00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:29.599
<v Speaker 2>big he was on her nosis and that equaling like

517
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:36.239
<v Speaker 2>kind of knowing as well I think are understanding just

518
00:34:36.320 --> 00:34:37.000
<v Speaker 2>I think the same.

519
00:34:39.719 --> 00:34:43.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that is interesting. I wonder if he goes into

520
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:47.280
<v Speaker 1>that and like any of his tractates sound like the

521
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:52.760
<v Speaker 1>evil or the problem of the soul or something.

522
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:54.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it'd be no different than like me and

523
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:55.679
<v Speaker 2>a few other people, like even the guy that we

524
00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:57.199
<v Speaker 2>had on last night with Annie. I mean, both of

525
00:34:57.280 --> 00:34:58.880
<v Speaker 2>us are both saying that a lot of this UFO

526
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:01.159
<v Speaker 2>alien shit is a bunch of bulls ship, you know,

527
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:03.639
<v Speaker 2>it's it's all, it's all occult stuff being wrapped up

528
00:35:03.639 --> 00:35:06.800
<v Speaker 2>into some fairy tale to sell people. It's the same

529
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:11.000
<v Speaker 2>ship with narcissism, probably coming from people who actually understood ocultism,

530
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:13.599
<v Speaker 2>because he's like, you should know better, you shouldn't be

531
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:16.000
<v Speaker 2>putting it out this way because people are taking it

532
00:35:16.039 --> 00:35:17.840
<v Speaker 2>the wrong way.

533
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:19.599
<v Speaker 6>Very true.

534
00:35:21.239 --> 00:35:25.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, maybe it's something like that too. Who knows, We'll

535
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:29.039
<v Speaker 2>never know, so.

536
00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:35.000
<v Speaker 1>I guess Platinus how he sees the knowing and the known.

537
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:40.320
<v Speaker 6>He believes that.

538
00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:46.000
<v Speaker 1>The knowing, the knower, and the known are one in

539
00:35:46.039 --> 00:36:01.519
<v Speaker 1>the same reality.

540
00:35:55.199 --> 00:35:58.199
<v Speaker 2>That what would you consider that? Would that be like

541
00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:03.000
<v Speaker 2>the one and a new I don't know, is that

542
00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:07.360
<v Speaker 2>father down anything. I feel like that's almost like an idea. Yeah.

543
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:09.519
<v Speaker 2>I feel like it's almost like an idea that he uses,

544
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:12.199
<v Speaker 2>or like I forgot how there's like a couple of

545
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.519
<v Speaker 2>things like I forgot this phrases that he uses. I

546
00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:16.599
<v Speaker 2>could be completely wrong.

547
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:24.960
<v Speaker 4>What are you doing about the now snick? Yeah?

548
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:27.599
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, like like that the same thing as the Christ.

549
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:29.440
<v Speaker 5>It's like the same spirit.

550
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:32.599
<v Speaker 4>I believe it's similar, very similar.

551
00:36:34.159 --> 00:36:36.039
<v Speaker 2>Could be getting confused with somebody else that I covered

552
00:36:36.039 --> 00:36:38.119
<v Speaker 2>where it's like they had like these phrases like the

553
00:36:38.159 --> 00:36:40.760
<v Speaker 2>person thinking and the thought and then the thinking of

554
00:36:40.800 --> 00:36:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the thought. I would have to explain ship like that.

555
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:53.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean he believes that the one is pure knowing.

556
00:36:57.519 --> 00:37:00.679
<v Speaker 6>And that new right.

557
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:05.519
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't first know something and then turn to reflect

558
00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:07.599
<v Speaker 1>to itself like you can't.

559
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:10.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, like that that's so choke my

560
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:12.519
<v Speaker 2>like in fucking in a kabbala. Oh my god, I

561
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:15.000
<v Speaker 2>feel like that is so choked face to face with God,

562
00:37:15.039 --> 00:37:15.199
<v Speaker 2>you know.

563
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:24.519
<v Speaker 1>I think it's just like like that last slide, like

564
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:30.320
<v Speaker 1>you can't know and know that you know, Like that's

565
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:35.960
<v Speaker 1>just one knowing. It's like they handshake each other, if

566
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:39.920
<v Speaker 1>that makes sense. Can't really be distinct.

567
00:37:48.440 --> 00:37:52.599
<v Speaker 3>Maybe Kashdar a little riddle about knowing or the kind

568
00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:57.920
<v Speaker 3>of maybe like knowing and more intuiting or knowing deeply.

569
00:37:58.639 --> 00:38:00.679
<v Speaker 3>Would if you need to get to the place that

570
00:38:00.760 --> 00:38:03.199
<v Speaker 3>you've never been before, and you're in no country you've

571
00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:07.320
<v Speaker 3>never been before, would you rather go with the person

572
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:12.119
<v Speaker 3>who knows the way or the person who has been

573
00:38:12.159 --> 00:38:17.000
<v Speaker 3>there before. And at first it might appear like knowing

574
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:19.639
<v Speaker 3>the way, Well, that's great, like let him take me,

575
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:23.840
<v Speaker 3>but has he he hasn't been there before, right, and

576
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:26.760
<v Speaker 3>so you might want to go with the person who

577
00:38:28.239 --> 00:38:30.760
<v Speaker 3>he can't explain he doesn't know it in a way

578
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:32.639
<v Speaker 3>that he could tell you, but he knows it in

579
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:37.199
<v Speaker 3>a way that he could get there bodily wise. Excuse

580
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:39.400
<v Speaker 3>me that, I just thought that was worth kind of

581
00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:41.039
<v Speaker 3>sharing the two different knowledge there.

582
00:38:44.440 --> 00:38:51.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, thank you, So yeah, I guess that's the argument

583
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:58.599
<v Speaker 1>is that news is just the act of knowing, so

584
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:02.079
<v Speaker 1>it can't be two separate things, and you can't break

585
00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:06.159
<v Speaker 1>it up into like a reposed state and an active

586
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:10.880
<v Speaker 1>state because it is pure activity.

587
00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:12.880
<v Speaker 6>It's pure actuality.

588
00:39:14.800 --> 00:39:20.400
<v Speaker 1>And then you know, another argument coming from that is

589
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:28.320
<v Speaker 1>that this movement implies like temporal development something, you know,

590
00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:34.840
<v Speaker 1>going from a potential to actuality, and they like linear

591
00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:45.159
<v Speaker 1>developmental fashion. But these higher realms they don't they don't

592
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:53.400
<v Speaker 1>have time. Everything just exists. They're all at once, the

593
00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:55.400
<v Speaker 1>patterns all exist.

594
00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:57.599
<v Speaker 6>Matter is.

595
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Developed uh literally like that through time, but it matter

596
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:14.679
<v Speaker 1>has potentiality. But that's just you know, what is necessary

597
00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:23.639
<v Speaker 1>for things to come into form. So yeah, basically he

598
00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:29.599
<v Speaker 1>believes that potentiality doesn't exist in us or the one.

599
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:38.760
<v Speaker 1>It belongs to the soul and to matter. And so

600
00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:40.559
<v Speaker 1>how could Sophia.

601
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:44.239
<v Speaker 6>You know, have.

602
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:54.360
<v Speaker 1>Kind of like actualized or desired or uh.

603
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:58.079
<v Speaker 6>Any of those things.

604
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:01.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, can you go back real quick. I hate to

605
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:03.360
<v Speaker 2>like drag this throng, but it's just like this stuff

606
00:41:03.400 --> 00:41:09.079
<v Speaker 2>right here football Titus uh news uh. I mean that's

607
00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:12.559
<v Speaker 2>for real. It's like so choke muf for me again.

608
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:14.079
<v Speaker 2>Like you know, the experience is supposed to be face

609
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:17.039
<v Speaker 2>to face the God, and it's like the knower knowing

610
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:20.239
<v Speaker 2>the knower and the knower won. I mean, if you

611
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:22.280
<v Speaker 2>look at how the tree works, I mean obviously that

612
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:26.079
<v Speaker 2>was the situation before you became sphere two like but

613
00:41:26.280 --> 00:41:29.679
<v Speaker 2>so but then like again you even have here something

614
00:41:29.719 --> 00:41:34.719
<v Speaker 2>else then then turned to reflect on itself. I think

615
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:36.679
<v Speaker 2>that's how you actually know what the fuck is even

616
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.079
<v Speaker 2>going on is because now you're able to look back

617
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:40.760
<v Speaker 2>and see what you were. You know, that whole thing

618
00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:44.119
<v Speaker 2>is when the knowing comes in and it just to me,

619
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:49.280
<v Speaker 2>it's so very much Chokoma right there in Kabala. Just

620
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:50.320
<v Speaker 2>to me, it's exact same.

621
00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:54.679
<v Speaker 3>I was thinking a similar thing Mick about it keeps

622
00:41:55.079 --> 00:42:00.880
<v Speaker 3>on beckoning the four dimensions, so, uh, creation, in formation

623
00:42:03.159 --> 00:42:09.800
<v Speaker 3>and of course the first one. Why am I spacing

624
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:13.039
<v Speaker 3>it right now? But it's all, It all just kind

625
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:16.519
<v Speaker 3>of beckons to those four worlds.

626
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:24.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's very cabalistic to me vice versa, which everyone

627
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:27.280
<v Speaker 2>can people want to argue that.

628
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I feel like metaphysics really translates to very similarly

629
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:41.559
<v Speaker 1>in so many different schools of thought. It's kind of

630
00:42:41.559 --> 00:42:48.480
<v Speaker 1>interesting how it works and how they differ. Okay, So

631
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:52.840
<v Speaker 1>I guess here's a little sass on Sophia.

632
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:56.440
<v Speaker 6>He says, to those who.

633
00:42:56.360 --> 00:42:59.480
<v Speaker 1>Assert that creation is the work of the soul, after

634
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:02.760
<v Speaker 1>the fall of its wings, we answered that no such

635
00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:06.079
<v Speaker 1>disgrace could overtake the soul of the all. If they

636
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:09.039
<v Speaker 1>tell us of its falling, they must tell us also

637
00:43:09.159 --> 00:43:11.920
<v Speaker 1>what caused the fall and when did it take place?

638
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:15.599
<v Speaker 1>If from eternity, then the soul must be essentially a

639
00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:19.840
<v Speaker 1>fallen thing. If at some one moment, why not before that?

640
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:22.840
<v Speaker 1>We assert its creative act.

641
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:25.800
<v Speaker 6>To be proof not of decline, but rather of its.

642
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:30.920
<v Speaker 1>Steadfasthold, its decline could consist only in its forgetting the

643
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:33.960
<v Speaker 1>divine But if it forgot, how could it create?

644
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:34.840
<v Speaker 6>Once?

645
00:43:34.920 --> 00:43:38.079
<v Speaker 1>Does it create but from things it knew in the divine?

646
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:41.679
<v Speaker 1>If it creates from the memory of that vision, it

647
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:45.960
<v Speaker 1>never fell. Even supposing it to be in some dim

648
00:43:46.079 --> 00:43:50.960
<v Speaker 1>intermediate state, it need not be supposed more likely to decline.

649
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:55.840
<v Speaker 1>Any inclination would be towards its prior and an effort

650
00:43:55.960 --> 00:43:59.440
<v Speaker 1>to the clearer vision. If any memory it all remained,

651
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:03.320
<v Speaker 1>what other desire could it have than to retrace the way?

652
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:07.400
<v Speaker 1>What could it have been planning to gain by world

653
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:11.880
<v Speaker 1>creating glory? That would be absurd, a motive borrowed from

654
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:15.760
<v Speaker 1>the sculptors of our earth. Finally, if the soul created

655
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:18.840
<v Speaker 1>by policy and not by sheer need of its nature,

656
00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:24.400
<v Speaker 1>by being characteristically the creative power, how explain the making

657
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:27.559
<v Speaker 1>of this universe? And when will it destroy the work?

658
00:44:27.920 --> 00:44:31.320
<v Speaker 1>If it repents of its work, what is it waiting for?

659
00:44:31.800 --> 00:44:35.039
<v Speaker 1>If it has not yet repented, then it will never repent.

660
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:38.840
<v Speaker 1>It must be already accustomed to the world, must be

661
00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:42.719
<v Speaker 1>growing more tender towards it with the passing of time.

662
00:44:57.480 --> 00:45:00.800
<v Speaker 2>I do agree with to be your well us, it's

663
00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:03.280
<v Speaker 2>explained that the whole material world being evil. But I

664
00:45:03.400 --> 00:45:04.960
<v Speaker 2>do agree with a lot of that stuff. The way

665
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.159
<v Speaker 2>he looks at it with God being you know, everything

666
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:09.480
<v Speaker 2>has the I guess the potential.

667
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:14.239
<v Speaker 4>It's very interesting to see it from this point of view.

668
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:16.639
<v Speaker 2>Definitely.

669
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:23.360
<v Speaker 1>I think the big part of this is, you know,

670
00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:28.559
<v Speaker 1>he has this idea that we are that you know,

671
00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:32.119
<v Speaker 1>there are the pure forms and news, and that we

672
00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:42.039
<v Speaker 1>are always kind of striving upwards towards the more pure forms.

673
00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:55.760
<v Speaker 6>And so it's like this idea that like, how could

674
00:45:55.920 --> 00:46:00.320
<v Speaker 6>the I at it?

675
00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:10.800
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, but basically like we we retrace the way

676
00:46:11.400 --> 00:46:21.119
<v Speaker 1>back up and like what really could a creator get

677
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:27.440
<v Speaker 1>from creating all of this? And how could it forget

678
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:36.519
<v Speaker 1>what it knew and all of those things? Oh shooting, okay,

679
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:46.599
<v Speaker 1>And so this is him defending the good. He says,

680
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:49.800
<v Speaker 1>it is the essence of things that each gives of

681
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:53.519
<v Speaker 1>its being to another. Without this communication, the good would

682
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:58.480
<v Speaker 1>not be good, nor the intellectual principle and intellective principle, nor.

683
00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:02.280
<v Speaker 6>Would soul itself be what it is. The law is

684
00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:03.400
<v Speaker 6>some life.

685
00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:06.559
<v Speaker 1>After the primal life, a secondary where there is a

686
00:47:06.639 --> 00:47:11.719
<v Speaker 1>first all linked in one unbroken chain, all eternal divergent

687
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:15.800
<v Speaker 1>types being engendered only in the sense of being secondary.

688
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:22.519
<v Speaker 1>In other words, things commonly described as generated have never

689
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:26.079
<v Speaker 1>known a beginning. All has been and will be. Nor

690
00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:30.679
<v Speaker 1>can anything disappear unless where a later form is possible.

691
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:39.880
<v Speaker 1>Without such a future, there can be no dissolution. So basically,

692
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:46.039
<v Speaker 1>the divine can't fall. It's perfect. It lacks nothing. No

693
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:52.519
<v Speaker 1>ignorance or error can occur to cause a fall. All

694
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:56.239
<v Speaker 1>things flow naturally from the good, like light from the sun,

695
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:02.840
<v Speaker 1>not through accident or sin. This outflow is eternal, not

696
00:48:03.079 --> 00:48:07.719
<v Speaker 1>a one time event in history or time. The material

697
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:11.800
<v Speaker 1>world isn't evil, but the dimmest reflection of divine light.

698
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:17.679
<v Speaker 1>Reality forms one continuous chain. So nothing truly separates or

699
00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:27.360
<v Speaker 1>falls from the divine source. And I think it gets

700
00:48:27.440 --> 00:48:32.599
<v Speaker 1>explained even better further, and so I'll just keep going.

701
00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Sounds good, okay, Im.

702
00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know my powerpoints are so boring. It's all

703
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:48.360
<v Speaker 1>just text and like two pictures.

704
00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:50.480
<v Speaker 3>But.

705
00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:53.920
<v Speaker 2>People, it's okay.

706
00:48:58.000 --> 00:48:58.199
<v Speaker 1>Yep.

707
00:48:58.880 --> 00:48:59.840
<v Speaker 5>So this is.

708
00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:02.400
<v Speaker 6>Again just trying to.

709
00:49:04.360 --> 00:49:08.800
<v Speaker 1>Defend like the good and that everything is made from

710
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:14.519
<v Speaker 1>the good, and everything is a mirror reflection of the

711
00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:19.360
<v Speaker 1>good or orchestrated from things that are higher.

712
00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:26.679
<v Speaker 6>So all right.

713
00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:31.440
<v Speaker 1>He furthers his argument by saying, nor may we grant

714
00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:34.840
<v Speaker 1>that this world is of unhappy origin because there are

715
00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:38.239
<v Speaker 1>many jarring things in it. Such a judgment would rate

716
00:49:38.320 --> 00:49:40.599
<v Speaker 1>it too high, treating it as the same with the

717
00:49:40.719 --> 00:49:48.000
<v Speaker 1>intelligible realm and not merely its reflection. And even further

718
00:49:48.400 --> 00:49:53.880
<v Speaker 1>in the tractate, he says that you know, to call

719
00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:59.920
<v Speaker 1>the world evil because it is a less perfect reflection,

720
00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:05.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, like you could use that argument against even

721
00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:10.559
<v Speaker 1>like noos because news isn't as perfect as the one either,

722
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:18.039
<v Speaker 1>So that's just not a great argument. And then yeah,

723
00:50:18.039 --> 00:50:21.199
<v Speaker 1>I added this image because I'm a very visual learner

724
00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:22.159
<v Speaker 1>of just.

725
00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:26.559
<v Speaker 6>Like how reflection really works. Right, Like if.

726
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:32.760
<v Speaker 1>Glass reflecting something, some of that light is going to

727
00:50:32.840 --> 00:50:36.159
<v Speaker 1>be absorbed, some of it is transmitted where it just

728
00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:41.679
<v Speaker 1>kind of like keeps going kind of past, and then

729
00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:45.639
<v Speaker 1>only some of that is reflected. And then even more,

730
00:50:45.679 --> 00:50:49.480
<v Speaker 1>if that surface isn't like perfectly level, it's.

731
00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:51.880
<v Speaker 6>Gonna reflect.

732
00:50:52.920 --> 00:51:01.639
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes like dispersed and just not a perfec reflection, you know.

733
00:51:06.920 --> 00:51:09.280
<v Speaker 6>Okay, And.

734
00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:23.000
<v Speaker 1>Now he's kind of going into how the gnostics kind of.

735
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:25.679
<v Speaker 3>Have this.

736
00:51:27.800 --> 00:51:33.199
<v Speaker 1>Idea that kind of makes no sense, where they believe

737
00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:39.519
<v Speaker 1>that they'll ascend when they die to a more heavenly version.

738
00:51:39.679 --> 00:51:40.320
<v Speaker 6>Of the world.

739
00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Right, So he says, furthermore, these teachers and their contempt

740
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:49.920
<v Speaker 1>for this creation and this earth, proclaimed that another earth

741
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:52.400
<v Speaker 1>has been made for them, into which they are to

742
00:51:52.639 --> 00:51:55.840
<v Speaker 1>enter when they depart. Now, this new earth is the

743
00:51:55.960 --> 00:51:59.719
<v Speaker 1>reason form of our world. Why should they desire to

744
00:51:59.800 --> 00:52:02.519
<v Speaker 1>live in the archetype of a world abhorrent to them?

745
00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:06.079
<v Speaker 3>Right?

746
00:52:07.039 --> 00:52:11.079
<v Speaker 1>You know, why would you want to live in and

747
00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:19.639
<v Speaker 1>like a more like a closer archetype or the archetype.

748
00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:26.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's still if you're if you live there,

749
00:52:26.800 --> 00:52:30.920
<v Speaker 1>it's still going to have form, so it wouldn't be perfect.

750
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:36.239
<v Speaker 6>And if you think that the.

751
00:52:36.320 --> 00:52:43.360
<v Speaker 1>World is evil, and then like it's really just a

752
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:45.239
<v Speaker 1>mirror of that archetype.

753
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:49.519
<v Speaker 6>How can that archetype be good but the mirror reflection

754
00:52:49.679 --> 00:52:50.440
<v Speaker 6>of it be evil?

755
00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:01.000
<v Speaker 1>And so then uh, I guess he talks about that

756
00:53:01.199 --> 00:53:05.559
<v Speaker 1>as being like a midworld, right, And I guess is

757
00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:07.519
<v Speaker 1>that kind of like what you guys were talking about

758
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:10.679
<v Speaker 1>the pleroma and like these midworlds?

759
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:15.480
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of like these certain levels

760
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:19.199
<v Speaker 5>that have these hierarchies of these entities that live there

761
00:53:19.360 --> 00:53:23.920
<v Speaker 5>some you know, some people call them angels or you know,

762
00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:27.159
<v Speaker 5>the archons, the AONs whatever.

763
00:53:27.360 --> 00:53:29.960
<v Speaker 6>But you see it in a lot of.

764
00:53:32.639 --> 00:53:39.199
<v Speaker 5>Ancient culture, you know, the same idea, right, So I

765
00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:40.920
<v Speaker 5>don't know if there may be something to it, but

766
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:43.960
<v Speaker 5>it's just not you know, it's probably not exactly what

767
00:53:44.119 --> 00:53:44.840
<v Speaker 5>it is, you know.

768
00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:48.559
<v Speaker 4>I don't know if if anyone has it at one

769
00:53:48.639 --> 00:53:49.199
<v Speaker 4>hundred percent.

770
00:53:49.559 --> 00:53:55.519
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I think it's an interesting idea. I think

771
00:53:55.880 --> 00:54:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Platinus believes definitely and like us hierarchy and immortal beings

772
00:54:01.440 --> 00:54:06.119
<v Speaker 1>and all of those things. But he does think that

773
00:54:06.280 --> 00:54:08.440
<v Speaker 1>the midworld idea is kind of dumb.

774
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:09.199
<v Speaker 2>I got.

775
00:54:09.519 --> 00:54:13.880
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, Hey, I mean his argument makes sense, to be

776
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:16.280
<v Speaker 4>honest with you, Like I said, I hadn't really looked

777
00:54:16.320 --> 00:54:17.599
<v Speaker 4>at it from that perspective before.

778
00:54:20.760 --> 00:54:22.800
<v Speaker 6>Yeah. He explains that more here.

779
00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:29.400
<v Speaker 1>Actually, he says, let us suppose the maker craving to

780
00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:33.880
<v Speaker 1>construct such an intermediate world, though, what motive could he

781
00:54:34.079 --> 00:54:39.159
<v Speaker 1>have in addition to the intellectual world, which he eternally possesses.

782
00:54:39.679 --> 00:54:42.519
<v Speaker 1>If he made the midworld first, what end was it

783
00:54:42.679 --> 00:54:45.960
<v Speaker 1>to serve to be a dwelling place for souls? How

784
00:54:46.079 --> 00:54:48.960
<v Speaker 1>then did they ever fall from it? It exists in

785
00:54:49.159 --> 00:54:53.719
<v Speaker 1>vain if he made it later than this world abstracting

786
00:54:53.920 --> 00:54:57.440
<v Speaker 1>the formal Sorry, if he made it later than this world,

787
00:54:57.960 --> 00:55:01.599
<v Speaker 1>abstracting the formal idea of this world and leaving the

788
00:55:01.719 --> 00:55:04.840
<v Speaker 1>matter out. The souls that have come to know that

789
00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:09.079
<v Speaker 1>intermediate sphere would have experienced enough to keep them from

790
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:13.039
<v Speaker 1>entering this. If the meaning is simply that souls exhibit

791
00:55:13.159 --> 00:55:16.760
<v Speaker 1>the idea form of the universe, what is there distinctive

792
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:22.880
<v Speaker 1>in the teaching? So basically, if the divine already possesses

793
00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:28.440
<v Speaker 1>the perfect intellectual realm, a separate midworld would serve no purpose.

794
00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:33.760
<v Speaker 1>If souls have already experienced this midworld and are naturally

795
00:55:33.920 --> 00:55:37.679
<v Speaker 1>drawn to higher reality, why would they descend into matter

796
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:43.000
<v Speaker 1>at all? They would have already reached full understanding. If

797
00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:46.599
<v Speaker 1>the archetypes already exist in noos, What is the point

798
00:55:46.679 --> 00:55:48.000
<v Speaker 1>of this midworld at all?

799
00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:59.000
<v Speaker 2>I think I think angels is like a good example

800
00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:02.800
<v Speaker 2>of like doing something human form that isn't that might be,

801
00:56:04.719 --> 00:56:07.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, m I think that's why they don't even

802
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:10.199
<v Speaker 2>a lot of times they see androgenous, because they're not

803
00:56:10.280 --> 00:56:12.559
<v Speaker 2>supposed to actually be in the flush well.

804
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:14.920
<v Speaker 4>And I'm sure, yeah right, I'm I'm I'm sure it's

805
00:56:15.039 --> 00:56:16.119
<v Speaker 4>it's probably just their light.

806
00:56:16.079 --> 00:56:20.119
<v Speaker 2>Bodies, right, So I think they all yeah, that's actually, yeah,

807
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:20.480
<v Speaker 2>seeing that.

808
00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:23.920
<v Speaker 5>Ind the astral realm, that would just give off color, right,

809
00:56:24.280 --> 00:56:28.480
<v Speaker 5>color in a shape a form maybe, so they interpret

810
00:56:28.559 --> 00:56:30.960
<v Speaker 5>that with wings in a halo and.

811
00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:33.760
<v Speaker 4>All that stuff, when really that's all symbolic later on.

812
00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:36.760
<v Speaker 2>You know, I think a lot of the wings uh

813
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:40.920
<v Speaker 2>wings sometimes is my theory, well my theory with a

814
00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:44.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of angels actually, I mean, they're always considered messengers.

815
00:56:44.920 --> 00:56:48.199
<v Speaker 2>I do actually think the nervous system might fit some

816
00:56:48.760 --> 00:56:53.280
<v Speaker 2>angelic stories. I mean, because there are traveling messages and

817
00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:54.639
<v Speaker 2>they are of electricity on.

818
00:56:54.679 --> 00:56:59.320
<v Speaker 5>Link from this dimension to the next. You know, people

819
00:57:00.119 --> 00:57:01.800
<v Speaker 5>look at it so black and white, like they just

820
00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:04.519
<v Speaker 5>come down, you know. It's like, no, it's it's a

821
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:04.880
<v Speaker 5>lot more.

822
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:06.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a little different than like what dogmin when

823
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:08.239
<v Speaker 2>they were like, you know, actually in human form and

824
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:15.440
<v Speaker 2>they got wings. All right, sorry interrupted, No, It's.

825
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:19.239
<v Speaker 1>So interesting though, like uh to try to conceptualize those

826
00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:25.559
<v Speaker 1>things and like how how they would be different, how

827
00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:38.519
<v Speaker 1>would you even really categorize them? And so now he

828
00:57:38.719 --> 00:57:46.559
<v Speaker 1>starts accusing uh the Gnostics of like not giving Plato

829
00:57:46.840 --> 00:57:56.360
<v Speaker 1>proper recognition and of like inventing jargon to try to

830
00:57:56.880 --> 00:58:00.599
<v Speaker 1>make their uh metaphors work.

831
00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:04.920
<v Speaker 5>And to.

832
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh that part of their doctrine comes from Plato and

833
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:18.039
<v Speaker 1>the rest from outside the truth. He says, from Plato

834
00:58:18.199 --> 00:58:21.639
<v Speaker 1>come their punishments, their rivers of the underworld, and the

835
00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:25.440
<v Speaker 1>changing from body to body. As for the plurality they

836
00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:31.519
<v Speaker 1>assert in their intellectual realm, the authentic existence, the intellectual principle,

837
00:58:31.679 --> 00:58:34.960
<v Speaker 1>the second Creator, and the soul, all this is taken

838
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:39.920
<v Speaker 1>over from the time Aus. It's kind of saying like

839
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:43.800
<v Speaker 1>you got all of your metaphysics from Timeus and you

840
00:58:43.960 --> 00:58:50.960
<v Speaker 1>give no credit. And then even further, he says that

841
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:56.400
<v Speaker 1>the Gnostics dishonor Plato and misrepresent his theory in every

842
00:58:56.480 --> 00:59:05.039
<v Speaker 1>way possible, and this is like one of the sassiar

843
00:59:09.159 --> 00:59:10.119
<v Speaker 1>full passages.

844
00:59:11.320 --> 00:59:11.840
<v Speaker 6>He says.

845
00:59:12.440 --> 00:59:16.360
<v Speaker 1>They hope to get the credit of minute and exact

846
00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:22.159
<v Speaker 1>identification by setting up a plurality of intellectual essences, but

847
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:26.840
<v Speaker 1>in reality this multiplication lowers the intellectual nature to the

848
00:59:27.000 --> 00:59:30.320
<v Speaker 1>level of the sense kind. Their true course is to

849
00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:34.400
<v Speaker 1>seek to reduce number to the least possible in the

850
00:59:34.480 --> 00:59:39.920
<v Speaker 1>supreme simply referring things to the second hyposthesis, which is

851
00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:45.000
<v Speaker 1>all that exists as it is primal intellect and reality

852
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:48.800
<v Speaker 1>and is the only thing that is good except for

853
00:59:49.159 --> 00:59:53.320
<v Speaker 1>the first nature, and to recognize soul as the third principle,

854
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:57.960
<v Speaker 1>accounting for the difference among souls merely by a diversity

855
00:59:58.440 --> 01:00:04.719
<v Speaker 1>of experience and character. Instead of insulting those venerable teachers,

856
01:00:05.840 --> 01:00:09.400
<v Speaker 1>they should receive their doctrine with the respect due to

857
01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:14.800
<v Speaker 1>the older thought and honor at that noble system and

858
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:20.000
<v Speaker 1>immortal soul, and intellectual and intelligible realm, the Supreme God,

859
01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:25.960
<v Speaker 1>the soul's need of emancipation from all intercourse with the body,

860
01:00:26.519 --> 01:00:29.599
<v Speaker 1>the fact of separation from it, to escape from the

861
01:00:29.679 --> 01:00:33.679
<v Speaker 1>world of process to the world of essential being. These

862
01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:39.440
<v Speaker 1>doctrines all emphatically asserted by Plato, they do well to adopt.

863
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:42.599
<v Speaker 1>Where they differ. They are at full liberty to speak

864
01:00:42.639 --> 01:00:46.920
<v Speaker 1>their minds, but not to procure a cent for their

865
01:00:47.000 --> 01:00:52.719
<v Speaker 1>own theories by flaying and flouting the Greeks. Where they

866
01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:57.119
<v Speaker 1>have a divergent theory to maintain, they must establish it

867
01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:01.800
<v Speaker 1>by its own merits, declaring their own opinions with courtesy

868
01:01:01.880 --> 01:01:08.480
<v Speaker 1>and with philosophical method, and stating the controverted opinion fairly.

869
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:12.400
<v Speaker 1>They must point their minds towards the truth, and not

870
01:01:12.880 --> 01:01:16.800
<v Speaker 1>hunt fame by insult, reviling, and seeking in their own

871
01:01:16.920 --> 01:01:21.880
<v Speaker 1>persons to replace men honored by the fine intelligences.

872
01:01:21.519 --> 01:01:22.599
<v Speaker 6>Of ages past.

873
01:01:23.719 --> 01:01:26.639
<v Speaker 1>As a matter of fact, the ancient doctrine of the

874
01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:31.599
<v Speaker 1>divine essences was far the sounder and more instructed, and

875
01:01:31.800 --> 01:01:35.280
<v Speaker 1>must be accepted by all not caught in the delusions

876
01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:41.079
<v Speaker 1>that beset humanity. It is easy also to identify what

877
01:01:41.320 --> 01:01:45.119
<v Speaker 1>has been conveyed in those later times from the ancients

878
01:01:45.400 --> 01:01:50.360
<v Speaker 1>with incongruous novelties. How for example, when they must set

879
01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:56.360
<v Speaker 1>up contradictory doctrine, they introduce a medley of generation and destruction.

880
01:01:56.960 --> 01:01:59.559
<v Speaker 1>How they travel at the universe, how they make the

881
01:01:59.639 --> 01:02:03.719
<v Speaker 1>soul blameable for the association with the body, how they

882
01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:07.960
<v Speaker 1>reviled the administrator of this all. How they ascribed to

883
01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:12.239
<v Speaker 1>the creator identified with the soul, the character and experiences

884
01:02:12.719 --> 01:02:14.559
<v Speaker 1>appropriate to partial beings.

885
01:02:19.039 --> 01:02:25.920
<v Speaker 4>WHOA, yeah, yeah, he didn't like him.

886
01:02:28.159 --> 01:02:31.679
<v Speaker 2>Thrower definitely thrown shade at the gnostics. Man, it was

887
01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:33.880
<v Speaker 2>kind of like I said, from even a little bit

888
01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:35.079
<v Speaker 2>I looked at I was like, this was kind of

889
01:02:35.119 --> 01:02:38.000
<v Speaker 2>funny that he said.

890
01:02:38.039 --> 01:02:39.079
<v Speaker 4>It is kind of making sense.

891
01:02:39.159 --> 01:02:43.360
<v Speaker 2>So now I had I had, I had my thing,

892
01:02:44.119 --> 01:02:46.880
<v Speaker 2>because you had two different I think, like two different academics.

893
01:02:47.079 --> 01:02:49.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, doesn't mean they know everything. That were like

894
01:02:49.920 --> 01:02:53.000
<v Speaker 2>looking at it, and uh one said that they thought

895
01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:55.800
<v Speaker 2>he had like almost like a total hatred for him.

896
01:02:55.840 --> 01:02:57.559
<v Speaker 2>But then there was another one who said that there's

897
01:02:57.639 --> 01:02:59.960
<v Speaker 2>proof of him allowing him allowing them to even come

898
01:03:00.079 --> 01:03:01.960
<v Speaker 2>and debate, that he was cool with them. You want

899
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:03.239
<v Speaker 2>to show up and you want a debate on this,

900
01:03:03.559 --> 01:03:06.559
<v Speaker 2>let's let's do it. So I think he was even

901
01:03:06.639 --> 01:03:08.920
<v Speaker 2>open and he even had some friends that he still

902
01:03:09.360 --> 01:03:11.559
<v Speaker 2>kept in touch with that was cool with that did

903
01:03:11.679 --> 01:03:16.360
<v Speaker 2>actually become gnostics. So uh, you know what I'm getting

904
01:03:16.400 --> 01:03:18.400
<v Speaker 2>at is that I don't know if it happened or not,

905
01:03:18.599 --> 01:03:20.960
<v Speaker 2>but you know, maybe he even let let them come

906
01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:25.239
<v Speaker 2>over and they even debated. That would have been pretty

907
01:03:25.239 --> 01:03:27.159
<v Speaker 2>fucking wild. I wonder if like the ship talking, then.

908
01:03:30.239 --> 01:03:31.400
<v Speaker 4>That's definitely.

909
01:03:34.960 --> 01:03:35.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

910
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:38.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean he was a nice guy, but oh yeah,

911
01:03:39.159 --> 01:03:42.719
<v Speaker 1>there was a throng in his opinions.

912
01:03:44.159 --> 01:03:47.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. They said he even took in like like kids

913
01:03:47.119 --> 01:03:50.079
<v Speaker 2>are people that like, uh like families will like help

914
01:03:50.119 --> 01:03:53.320
<v Speaker 2>them like if they were fucked up, and ship they

915
01:03:53.360 --> 01:03:55.320
<v Speaker 2>actually so like the way he lived was like he

916
01:03:55.400 --> 01:03:56.880
<v Speaker 2>actually was like a really good guy.

917
01:03:58.719 --> 01:04:01.719
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I'm trying to remember for how many orphans he

918
01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:03.960
<v Speaker 6>took in. I think it's like.

919
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:11.960
<v Speaker 1>Somewhere between five and like twelve, which is which means

920
01:04:12.159 --> 01:04:16.559
<v Speaker 1>like no one really knows, I guess, but yeah, I

921
01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:20.199
<v Speaker 1>think that they were mostly though his like friends' kids, like.

922
01:04:22.000 --> 01:04:22.559
<v Speaker 3>Some of the.

923
01:04:24.239 --> 01:04:27.639
<v Speaker 6>More like nobles, like when.

924
01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:32.239
<v Speaker 1>Their parents passed away, they took them on and and

925
01:04:32.360 --> 01:04:35.360
<v Speaker 1>they gave him actually, like they're like a lot of

926
01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:38.920
<v Speaker 1>wealth to take care of these kids, and yet he

927
01:04:39.800 --> 01:04:43.079
<v Speaker 1>basically just took care of that wealth for them and

928
01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:51.920
<v Speaker 1>like set them up like for when they were ready

929
01:04:52.039 --> 01:04:56.960
<v Speaker 1>to take that on. But he like lived in like

930
01:04:57.199 --> 01:05:00.519
<v Speaker 1>very modestly. He never took any of that money for himself.

931
01:05:01.519 --> 01:05:02.119
<v Speaker 6>It's kind of.

932
01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh, okay, we're almost nearing the end here, and this

933
01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:17.800
<v Speaker 1>is this is like the pretty funny okay, he says,

934
01:05:18.400 --> 01:05:22.840
<v Speaker 1>admitting that human souls have descended under constraint of the

935
01:05:22.960 --> 01:05:26.239
<v Speaker 1>all soul? Are we to think the constrain the nobler

936
01:05:27.039 --> 01:05:30.360
<v Speaker 1>among souls? What commands must be higher than what obeys?

937
01:05:30.760 --> 01:05:33.639
<v Speaker 1>And if the coming was unconstrained, why find fault with

938
01:05:33.719 --> 01:05:36.320
<v Speaker 1>the world you have chosen and can quit if you

939
01:05:36.440 --> 01:05:43.320
<v Speaker 1>dislike it. It's like a hilarious, like polite way to say,

940
01:05:43.679 --> 01:05:44.960
<v Speaker 1>why don't you kill yourself?

941
01:05:48.280 --> 01:05:51.320
<v Speaker 2>So jeez.

942
01:05:52.880 --> 01:05:57.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So if you guys ever need a polite way

943
01:05:57.760 --> 01:06:01.280
<v Speaker 1>to say that, just say why find fault with the

944
01:06:01.320 --> 01:06:03.920
<v Speaker 1>world you have chosen and can quit if you dislike it.

945
01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:10.320
<v Speaker 6>I don't know if you guys have ever seen this.

946
01:06:10.559 --> 01:06:21.800
<v Speaker 4>Meme, but turning, yeah, he seems pretty base.

947
01:06:22.679 --> 01:06:23.199
<v Speaker 2>I like him.

948
01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:25.440
<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna look into this guy.

949
01:06:26.960 --> 01:06:27.079
<v Speaker 5>Yo.

950
01:06:27.199 --> 01:06:29.480
<v Speaker 2>There's a two hours show on the Occult Rejects. You

951
01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:37.760
<v Speaker 2>could listen to such a dick hey, And honestly, if

952
01:06:37.800 --> 01:06:39.920
<v Speaker 2>you listen to arrowsis ship, you'll hear exactly what he

953
01:06:40.039 --> 01:06:43.320
<v Speaker 2>was talking about. So she covers a lot of his

954
01:06:43.440 --> 01:06:46.599
<v Speaker 2>actual like the any ads of Porphyry took down.

955
01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:54.119
<v Speaker 1>Yep. Yeah, it's definitely worth looking into. It's so influential,

956
01:06:54.519 --> 01:06:56.920
<v Speaker 1>especially like on Western culture.

957
01:06:58.039 --> 01:06:59.800
<v Speaker 2>For real, if you're still looking at yeah, like his

958
01:07:00.280 --> 01:07:02.480
<v Speaker 2>and a few other people like, you'll be like, holy shit.

959
01:07:02.679 --> 01:07:06.239
<v Speaker 2>Just you'll see within a few dudes in some women

960
01:07:06.639 --> 01:07:10.119
<v Speaker 2>how much they impacted like religion the way we look

961
01:07:10.159 --> 01:07:13.440
<v Speaker 2>at it now. And it's not like this is the

962
01:07:13.519 --> 01:07:15.440
<v Speaker 2>interesting thing in the way I try to even attribute

963
01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:18.239
<v Speaker 2>it to it. It's almost as if like people who

964
01:07:18.280 --> 01:07:21.039
<v Speaker 2>are in AA, they'll understand this. They'll have the big book,

965
01:07:21.039 --> 01:07:22.960
<v Speaker 2>and then they'll have all these slogans that actually aren't

966
01:07:22.960 --> 01:07:25.199
<v Speaker 2>in the book at all that you start going by.

967
01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:27.679
<v Speaker 2>It's like, well, that's not actually in the material. That's

968
01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:30.440
<v Speaker 2>just sound some cute little shit you made up. That's

969
01:07:30.440 --> 01:07:33.760
<v Speaker 2>actually not part of the formula, you know what I'm saying.

970
01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:37.599
<v Speaker 2>And then you actually have like fuck, I totally forgot

971
01:07:37.639 --> 01:07:42.639
<v Speaker 2>what was going with fuck just oh my god, I

972
01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:44.119
<v Speaker 2>fucking had a brain for it.

973
01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:47.000
<v Speaker 3>Like the stuff that comes later may be useful, but

974
01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:48.679
<v Speaker 3>it's not the original doctrine.

975
01:07:48.719 --> 01:07:52.119
<v Speaker 2>Then yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, I mean that's that happens,

976
01:07:52.239 --> 01:07:54.920
<v Speaker 2>you know. Actually yeah, I feel like AA does.

977
01:07:54.840 --> 01:07:58.480
<v Speaker 1>That with that, And that can happen, and then sometimes

978
01:07:58.559 --> 01:08:02.400
<v Speaker 1>those you know, become really popular, then they get more notoriety,

979
01:08:02.559 --> 01:08:06.800
<v Speaker 1>and then usually things with more notoriety people are like,

980
01:08:07.199 --> 01:08:10.599
<v Speaker 1>that must be the truth, that must be like, you know,

981
01:08:10.719 --> 01:08:15.239
<v Speaker 1>people rarely dig deeper to understand where ideas come from.

982
01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:17.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah yeah, and then like all right, that is now

983
01:08:17.479 --> 01:08:19.279
<v Speaker 2>what reminded me and what I was even getting at. Again,

984
01:08:19.319 --> 01:08:21.319
<v Speaker 2>I could be wrong about Plutonis, but it was like

985
01:08:21.399 --> 01:08:23.640
<v Speaker 2>somebody who had the idea that you might actually meet

986
01:08:23.680 --> 01:08:25.520
<v Speaker 2>your famis friends and family when you go out to

987
01:08:25.560 --> 01:08:27.880
<v Speaker 2>fucking heaven, or the way they describe that, people took

988
01:08:27.920 --> 01:08:32.760
<v Speaker 2>it that way. Again, that is something that Christians will believe,

989
01:08:32.880 --> 01:08:35.880
<v Speaker 2>but it's not actually in the fucking Bible. You know

990
01:08:35.920 --> 01:08:37.920
<v Speaker 2>what I'm saying. Again, it's like a slogan that goes

991
01:08:37.960 --> 01:08:39.760
<v Speaker 2>along with it, but where does it actually say that.

992
01:08:40.279 --> 01:08:43.079
<v Speaker 5>Well, yeah, and I mean we me and Headless talked

993
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:45.520
<v Speaker 5>about how Hell is not mentioned in the Bible. You know,

994
01:08:45.640 --> 01:08:50.000
<v Speaker 5>it's mentioned as Bihinnah and so, which is also referring

995
01:08:50.039 --> 01:08:53.600
<v Speaker 5>to a valley, you know. So, I mean it could

996
01:08:53.640 --> 01:08:58.279
<v Speaker 5>be metaphysical. I don't know, but you know in Norse mythology,

997
01:08:58.319 --> 01:09:02.039
<v Speaker 5>hell is freezing cold or Hellheim. Right, Hell is the

998
01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:06.199
<v Speaker 5>goddess of Hellheim. But Helheim is freezing cold, it's not hot.

999
01:09:07.119 --> 01:09:09.960
<v Speaker 5>So it's a complete inversion of just history. It seems

1000
01:09:11.079 --> 01:09:12.119
<v Speaker 5>that's what religion does.

1001
01:09:14.560 --> 01:09:18.079
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Yeah, that was awesome presentation.

1002
01:09:18.199 --> 01:09:23.039
<v Speaker 5>Then, yeah, that was great errors. Oh thinks I actually

1003
01:09:23.399 --> 01:09:25.279
<v Speaker 5>learned a lot. I always learn on the show. That's

1004
01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:27.199
<v Speaker 5>why I love doing it exactly.

1005
01:09:31.079 --> 01:09:35.479
<v Speaker 1>I'll try to close it out with a good summary here,

1006
01:09:38.239 --> 01:09:45.680
<v Speaker 1>all right, So to summarize Gnostic cosmology, is incoherent. It

1007
01:09:45.800 --> 01:09:49.359
<v Speaker 1>assumes error and desire and the divine where there can

1008
01:09:49.479 --> 01:09:56.079
<v Speaker 1>be none, and creates multiple unnecessary worlds. Higher realities give

1009
01:09:56.199 --> 01:10:02.239
<v Speaker 1>rise to lower realities. What commands is higher than what obeys, right,

1010
01:10:02.439 --> 01:10:08.960
<v Speaker 1>like the demiurge would be higher than us. So it's

1011
01:10:09.039 --> 01:10:14.159
<v Speaker 1>kind of silly to think of yourself above them. Higher

1012
01:10:14.239 --> 01:10:19.680
<v Speaker 1>realities are timeless, eternal, and fully actualized. There is no potential, knowing,

1013
01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:24.439
<v Speaker 1>only known. Everything inherents the perfection.

1014
01:10:24.199 --> 01:10:27.039
<v Speaker 6>And order of the good. A mirrored image of the

1015
01:10:27.119 --> 01:10:29.279
<v Speaker 6>good is good, even if imperfect.

1016
01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:34.520
<v Speaker 1>And then.

1017
01:10:37.760 --> 01:10:42.279
<v Speaker 6>Here news is fully actualized.

1018
01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:44.239
<v Speaker 3>In it.

1019
01:10:44.520 --> 01:10:51.479
<v Speaker 1>Multiplicity is structured. All forms exist eternally infinite but coherent,

1020
01:10:52.399 --> 01:10:58.359
<v Speaker 1>and the soul it's partially actualized. It can change, develop, learn,

1021
01:10:59.039 --> 01:11:04.840
<v Speaker 1>differentiation emerges in time, and then for matter it's fully

1022
01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:12.439
<v Speaker 1>potential and mutable. That's where chaos and in completedness exists

1023
01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:16.039
<v Speaker 1>and differentiation arises through actualization.

1024
01:11:21.880 --> 01:11:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Very well, very well said that was good. Thank you

1025
01:11:26.439 --> 01:11:32.159
<v Speaker 2>so much. Ers. Uh, yeah, we definitely have to have

1026
01:11:32.199 --> 01:11:34.199
<v Speaker 2>to keep putting pressure on you, but it definitely you

1027
01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:36.960
<v Speaker 2>talk about more of it. But yeah, this was fucking awesome.

1028
01:11:37.920 --> 01:11:40.600
<v Speaker 2>I really like this stuff. I was really big into

1029
01:11:40.640 --> 01:11:43.399
<v Speaker 2>Platini's when I covered him like that one actually for

1030
01:11:43.520 --> 01:11:45.479
<v Speaker 2>me was like, yeah, it sound like corny, but I

1031
01:11:45.600 --> 01:11:48.159
<v Speaker 2>was like, I really was like proud of putting that

1032
01:11:48.159 --> 01:11:49.920
<v Speaker 2>one out because I do think he's a very influential

1033
01:11:49.960 --> 01:11:52.920
<v Speaker 2>person and somebody you should look into, you know what

1034
01:11:52.920 --> 01:11:54.560
<v Speaker 2>I mean. It's almost like you could look at the

1035
01:11:54.600 --> 01:11:57.600
<v Speaker 2>stuff like there's in Dixon demons in there. Let's put

1036
01:11:57.640 --> 01:11:59.840
<v Speaker 2>it that way. You know what I'm saying, You're actually

1037
01:11:59.880 --> 01:12:01.680
<v Speaker 2>just looking at like how the fuck do you get

1038
01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:05.119
<v Speaker 2>your head straight and having a contact with God. There's

1039
01:12:05.119 --> 01:12:07.079
<v Speaker 2>all this other fucking bullshit thrown in there.

1040
01:12:07.880 --> 01:12:11.720
<v Speaker 6>Mm hmm, like intermediaries and stuff.

1041
01:12:11.880 --> 01:12:14.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like the whole Like it's just like, really, I

1042
01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:16.640
<v Speaker 2>just like the way he explains it. He doesn't give

1043
01:12:16.680 --> 01:12:18.680
<v Speaker 2>you much of a dark aspect to try to like

1044
01:12:19.319 --> 01:12:21.560
<v Speaker 2>grift with or fall in love with or go too

1045
01:12:21.640 --> 01:12:21.960
<v Speaker 2>far with.

1046
01:12:23.239 --> 01:12:24.279
<v Speaker 4>Not everything's a demon.

1047
01:12:24.640 --> 01:12:26.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well not even that. It's just like you know,

1048
01:12:26.560 --> 01:12:28.279
<v Speaker 2>even dealing with your dark at self. I guess like

1049
01:12:28.399 --> 01:12:31.199
<v Speaker 2>sometimes when it gets like we you know, with the OTO,

1050
01:12:31.279 --> 01:12:33.159
<v Speaker 2>I feel like the image that gives us some of

1051
01:12:33.199 --> 01:12:36.800
<v Speaker 2>the people there, they will oh, I'm doing shadow work,

1052
01:12:36.840 --> 01:12:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Well you've been doing it for the last fucking year

1053
01:12:38.720 --> 01:12:40.920
<v Speaker 2>on the same problem. Obviously you're feeding it, you're not

1054
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:43.159
<v Speaker 2>dealing with it. You're actually getting worse.

1055
01:12:44.720 --> 01:12:46.680
<v Speaker 4>Right, Yeah, because it's always gonna be there.

1056
01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:47.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1057
01:12:47.199 --> 01:12:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I just feel like his was like a little

1058
01:12:48.920 --> 01:12:51.680
<v Speaker 2>bit more conservative. It's just a little bit more cleaner,

1059
01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:54.000
<v Speaker 2>more you know, just straight to a god or a

1060
01:12:54.079 --> 01:12:54.840
<v Speaker 2>good I don't know.

1061
01:12:55.399 --> 01:12:59.159
<v Speaker 5>Well, the mention of demons automatically and still fear into people, right,

1062
01:12:59.239 --> 01:13:01.119
<v Speaker 5>and we talked about how you have fear is one

1063
01:13:01.159 --> 01:13:04.760
<v Speaker 5>of the strongest emotions, emotions being the highest of the

1064
01:13:04.840 --> 01:13:08.439
<v Speaker 5>planes of the elementals, right and and and so well,

1065
01:13:08.600 --> 01:13:11.119
<v Speaker 5>not emotions, I'd say that's the mental plan the emotions

1066
01:13:11.199 --> 01:13:13.000
<v Speaker 5>you actually come from the etheric.

1067
01:13:15.239 --> 01:13:19.199
<v Speaker 2>But but yeah, this is even another interesting thing. I'm

1068
01:13:19.199 --> 01:13:22.479
<v Speaker 2>glad he even brought up demons and then they'll shut up, uh, Erros,

1069
01:13:22.520 --> 01:13:22.880
<v Speaker 2>you might.

1070
01:13:22.800 --> 01:13:24.880
<v Speaker 4>Even demon erasers on naar, so we get to talk

1071
01:13:24.880 --> 01:13:25.520
<v Speaker 4>about demons.

1072
01:13:25.520 --> 01:13:28.920
<v Speaker 2>I guess, yes, good to Erros might even know this.

1073
01:13:29.119 --> 01:13:32.640
<v Speaker 2>I I could be wrong, but I think I think

1074
01:13:32.680 --> 01:13:35.560
<v Speaker 2>he they called it then as well. I would even

1075
01:13:35.560 --> 01:13:38.920
<v Speaker 2>say that their idea of demons was different, because Plutinus

1076
01:13:38.960 --> 01:13:42.039
<v Speaker 2>at one point proved himself to some like I think

1077
01:13:42.079 --> 01:13:46.199
<v Speaker 2>Egyptian priest at some temple of iis that he was

1078
01:13:46.479 --> 01:13:50.800
<v Speaker 2>of I guess something because this guy brought out his damon.

1079
01:13:51.800 --> 01:13:56.199
<v Speaker 2>Plutinus's damon appeared and was of like some higher angelic order,

1080
01:13:56.600 --> 01:13:58.399
<v Speaker 2>and that's how this priest was able to say, this

1081
01:13:58.520 --> 01:14:02.720
<v Speaker 2>guy is that full shit? Wow, dude, But yeah, I'm

1082
01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:06.600
<v Speaker 2>almost again the terminology damon was being used, but now

1083
01:14:06.640 --> 01:14:09.319
<v Speaker 2>we're talking about an angel, so it's like, you know,

1084
01:14:09.359 --> 01:14:12.399
<v Speaker 2>where the fuck we're even going with this word? How

1085
01:14:12.439 --> 01:14:16.439
<v Speaker 2>we how was it even originally used? No idea. I'm

1086
01:14:16.439 --> 01:14:20.880
<v Speaker 2>still confused on that now, trying to charge it out,

1087
01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:23.079
<v Speaker 2>but I just say, I just think there's misunderstandings.

1088
01:14:23.119 --> 01:14:24.000
<v Speaker 1>And the.

1089
01:14:25.880 --> 01:14:28.279
<v Speaker 2>Reason there's different spellings is because it's a different energy

1090
01:14:28.399 --> 01:14:30.119
<v Speaker 2>or a different thing, you know that could.

1091
01:14:30.439 --> 01:14:33.880
<v Speaker 5>It's different than a demon man. People think it's a

1092
01:14:33.920 --> 01:14:36.079
<v Speaker 5>different just a different way to say it. But I

1093
01:14:36.119 --> 01:14:37.800
<v Speaker 5>think it's it's a different thing all the exactly.

1094
01:14:37.880 --> 01:14:38.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you.

1095
01:14:39.000 --> 01:14:41.399
<v Speaker 4>Something that comes from a higher nature, not our lower nature.

1096
01:14:41.640 --> 01:14:46.039
<v Speaker 2>Yes, something probably right, something like that, Yeah, all right, yeah,

1097
01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:51.039
<v Speaker 2>thank you very much, Erros. Yeah, if you want, let

1098
01:14:51.079 --> 01:14:53.359
<v Speaker 2>everybody know what way they can finally work out again,

1099
01:14:53.359 --> 01:14:55.359
<v Speaker 2>and please remind them with the other episode that you did.

1100
01:14:57.520 --> 01:15:02.399
<v Speaker 6>Yep, so just reiterate.

1101
01:15:02.880 --> 01:15:06.520
<v Speaker 1>You can find me on YouTube at Arrows Up where

1102
01:15:06.920 --> 01:15:10.159
<v Speaker 1>I do some studies on the tractates in the inneads

1103
01:15:12.159 --> 01:15:15.520
<v Speaker 1>kind of like this one, and then you can find

1104
01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:23.720
<v Speaker 1>me on Twitter at Arrows to Ethos and then yeah,

1105
01:15:23.840 --> 01:15:27.520
<v Speaker 1>if you liked this episode, please go watch the episode

1106
01:15:28.239 --> 01:15:33.359
<v Speaker 1>that Nick did Platinus or the episode that we did

1107
01:15:35.079 --> 01:15:39.840
<v Speaker 1>last which was on again are the Stars Causes and

1108
01:15:41.199 --> 01:15:50.159
<v Speaker 1>really going into Platinus's idea of this differentiation scheme of

1109
01:15:50.800 --> 01:15:54.319
<v Speaker 1>multiplicity that everything emerges out of.

1110
01:15:57.880 --> 01:15:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Yes, thank you so much yet and people haven't checked out.

1111
01:16:00.000 --> 01:16:02.000
<v Speaker 2>I let this an episode that she did. Go check

1112
01:16:02.039 --> 01:16:04.000
<v Speaker 2>it out. It was like a month ago maybe something

1113
01:16:04.079 --> 01:16:08.119
<v Speaker 2>like that. Definitely was fun. And again I really really

1114
01:16:08.199 --> 01:16:10.359
<v Speaker 2>appreciate you coming on, especially with the slide show. I

1115
01:16:10.439 --> 01:16:12.920
<v Speaker 2>mean that's uh, I myself know that that takes time to.

1116
01:16:12.960 --> 01:16:14.800
<v Speaker 4>Work very professional era.

1117
01:16:15.000 --> 01:16:19.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I appreciate that because again, like I mean,

1118
01:16:19.920 --> 01:16:21.359
<v Speaker 2>just if you listen to my stuff that I do

1119
01:16:21.439 --> 01:16:24.720
<v Speaker 2>on my own, it's like very much. I understand the

1120
01:16:24.720 --> 01:16:25.680
<v Speaker 2>time it takes a good ship.

1121
01:16:26.319 --> 01:16:27.199
<v Speaker 4>Your stuff's fun.

1122
01:16:28.319 --> 01:16:30.359
<v Speaker 2>No, No, I'm just saying I understand, like it takes

1123
01:16:30.439 --> 01:16:32.520
<v Speaker 2>time to do that ship like solo work and all

1124
01:16:32.560 --> 01:16:32.960
<v Speaker 2>that ship.

1125
01:16:33.039 --> 01:16:33.680
<v Speaker 4>Like, fuck.

1126
01:16:35.520 --> 01:16:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Yo, you should know Jewels, you do solo shit yourself too. Yeah.

1127
01:16:38.880 --> 01:16:40.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I have like ten shows I do and then

1128
01:16:40.960 --> 01:16:43.439
<v Speaker 5>I don't have. I'm the only I'm like the progenitor

1129
01:16:43.520 --> 01:16:46.119
<v Speaker 5>of the show. So I do all the stuff I try.

1130
01:16:46.279 --> 01:16:46.800
<v Speaker 1>I know.

1131
01:16:46.920 --> 01:16:48.399
<v Speaker 2>But it was like all the topics that you did,

1132
01:16:48.439 --> 01:16:51.880
<v Speaker 2>you sold that ship, didn't you. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

1133
01:16:51.880 --> 01:16:52.159
<v Speaker 5>That shit.

1134
01:16:52.239 --> 01:16:54.960
<v Speaker 2>You understand what I'm getting at. That's that's what I mean.

1135
01:16:55.119 --> 01:17:00.319
<v Speaker 2>So I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah, all right, Yeah,

1136
01:17:00.800 --> 01:17:02.840
<v Speaker 2>let's Jules, let everybody know what the fu's up with

1137
01:17:02.880 --> 01:17:04.479
<v Speaker 2>you like find out you guys.

1138
01:17:05.800 --> 01:17:06.800
<v Speaker 4>Earlier as you heard.

1139
01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:08.840
<v Speaker 5>You can follow me on Twitter at Great Pill Pod,

1140
01:17:09.319 --> 01:17:13.479
<v Speaker 5>Great Piled, Underscore Podcast on Instagram and Rumble YouTube, Spotify,

1141
01:17:13.520 --> 01:17:17.119
<v Speaker 5>Apple Podcasts, Patreon, dot com, Slash, Great pul Podcast if

1142
01:17:17.159 --> 01:17:18.119
<v Speaker 5>you want to support the show.

1143
01:17:18.399 --> 01:17:22.840
<v Speaker 4>We got three episodes of Twin Peaks left, so we

1144
01:17:23.000 --> 01:17:25.800
<v Speaker 4>may do it tomorrow night. My wife may be hanging

1145
01:17:25.840 --> 01:17:29.199
<v Speaker 4>out with us too, so yeah, yeah, I'll just keep

1146
01:17:29.239 --> 01:17:29.760
<v Speaker 4>you updated.

1147
01:17:29.800 --> 01:17:32.720
<v Speaker 5>But tomorrow around noon, maybe a little afternoon, I gotta

1148
01:17:32.760 --> 01:17:33.520
<v Speaker 5>get the time down.

1149
01:17:33.600 --> 01:17:36.159
<v Speaker 4>As Brian from Demon Racers is coming on, so it's

1150
01:17:36.159 --> 01:17:37.039
<v Speaker 4>gonna be a fun show.

1151
01:17:39.039 --> 01:17:39.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1152
01:17:39.399 --> 01:17:43.600
<v Speaker 5>This, this is a great conversation. And uh, I'm about

1153
01:17:43.640 --> 01:17:45.399
<v Speaker 5>to go out to the country to a pig gross.

1154
01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:50.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh man, you suck for you. That's at My.

1155
01:17:50.159 --> 01:17:52.159
<v Speaker 4>Wife's going to record a couple of episodes, so y'all

1156
01:17:52.199 --> 01:17:53.159
<v Speaker 4>look out for that this week.

1157
01:17:53.239 --> 01:17:53.680
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah.

1158
01:17:54.119 --> 01:17:59.520
<v Speaker 4>Reposting the Babel on podcast. Yeah yeah, episode three.

1159
01:18:00.520 --> 01:18:02.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh, thank you very much, Josie. I appreciate it.

1160
01:18:03.479 --> 01:18:05.479
<v Speaker 4>And it's great to see you, Ethan. It's good to

1161
01:18:05.520 --> 01:18:07.760
<v Speaker 4>be yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's good to be here.

1162
01:18:08.119 --> 01:18:10.399
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, and this this was fun. I really

1163
01:18:10.520 --> 01:18:14.800
<v Speaker 2>enjoy these shows, this topic too. Ethan. Please let everybody

1164
01:18:14.880 --> 01:18:16.119
<v Speaker 2>know what's up with you, and they can find all

1165
01:18:16.159 --> 01:18:17.199
<v Speaker 2>your books as well. Please.

1166
01:18:18.520 --> 01:18:20.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thank you so much Nick for getting this together.

1167
01:18:20.880 --> 01:18:21.079
<v Speaker 4>Ros.

1168
01:18:21.199 --> 01:18:27.800
<v Speaker 3>That was awesome. Look forward to your next presentation. And yeah,

1169
01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:30.399
<v Speaker 3>I got I'm easy to find on all the social media,

1170
01:18:30.520 --> 01:18:35.520
<v Speaker 3>Ethan Indigo Smith and check out my books on Global

1171
01:18:35.640 --> 01:18:37.279
<v Speaker 3>com or Amazon as they call it.

1172
01:18:37.399 --> 01:18:41.000
<v Speaker 4>And yeah, appreciate you guys, Ethan.

1173
01:18:41.000 --> 01:18:42.840
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate you making it. I know it's a little

1174
01:18:42.840 --> 01:18:45.039
<v Speaker 2>bit earlier if it's for YouTube as well, because of

1175
01:18:45.119 --> 01:18:49.640
<v Speaker 2>the time difference, but that's what's up man, and thank

1176
01:18:49.680 --> 01:18:51.640
<v Speaker 2>everybody in the chat as well. That's what's up. There

1177
01:18:51.680 --> 01:18:52.920
<v Speaker 2>was a lot of people here from the beginning to

1178
01:18:52.960 --> 01:18:54.800
<v Speaker 2>the end. There's a lot of the same same faces,

1179
01:18:54.800 --> 01:18:56.800
<v Speaker 2>and I saw all the names. I'm sure that's probably

1180
01:18:56.840 --> 01:18:59.920
<v Speaker 2>on other people's channels. That's what's up. Thank you for coming, buying,

1181
01:19:00.119 --> 01:19:03.039
<v Speaker 2>checking it out, and again Arrows and everybody else on

1182
01:19:03.079 --> 01:19:06.319
<v Speaker 2>the panel, please again, thank you for coming on. And

1183
01:19:06.520 --> 01:19:08.760
<v Speaker 2>I had a really good time. And that's what's up.

1184
01:19:08.920 --> 01:19:10.680
<v Speaker 2>And until the next one, everybody be well.

1185
01:19:11.159 --> 01:19:11.239
<v Speaker 1>La