Speaker 1: Well off of a weekend that has seen Keishawn Davis
get an impressive win in front of the home folks.
It is seeing Juran Boots in his win. But wait
a minute, some question marks even in victory defending his
IVF Welterway title. No question about Jesse Vam Rodriguez. We're
ready to talk about him. We got news, we got nostalgia.
It is the Fight Freaks U Night Recap podcast. I
am the somewhat lucid host, TJ. Reeves. He is our insider.
Dan Rayfield upfront. Neither one of us in a very
good mood after our NFL Sunday. One of us watched
it from the air conditioning of his home. I presume
you still have air conditioning because it's cooler weather right
now in Virginia. I watched it from field level on
a ninety plus degree heat and humidity day in Tampa,
where my Buccaneers fizzled out. Your Giant's fizzled out on
another continent in Germany. So we don't want to talk football.
We you know the NFL football, the American football. We
want to talk boxing. Dan Rayfield, good to be with you,
and we got a lot to reac happen, and a
lot to go over here on the program. How are
things besides the football? We know the football is back.
Speaker 2: The football is not good. And I just look forward
to the fact that the Giants have a bye week,
and when they come back from the bye week, that
that terrible starting quarterback Daniel Jones will have a nice
soft cushion on the bench. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And by the way, playing my Buccaneers. I'll be in
New York. That's right, the bye week. The Giants have
the bye week, and toast toast somebody allegedly has to
win in a couple of weeks. We'll find out all right.
By the way, follow, subscribe, Apple, Spreakers, Spotify, rate us,
and review us. Those help with the algorithms. We keep
rocking along Mike Tyson on the podcast feed with Dan.
If you enjoy the content, just say so. Take thirty
seconds rate us, review us, give us a five star review.
That'll help out. We preview going into the weekend, we
recap coming off the weekend. Let's get into it. So
key Sean Davis off of what we you know. When
we left on the preview on this pod, we didn't
know what that situation was with the opponent Limos being
so overweight, he ends up making the secondary way in
the fight stayed on for Friday night, and then it
did not take long, my friend, for Kishan to get
rid of his Argentinian opponent. All your thoughts on that
in the top rank main event.
Speaker 2: I thought Kishon Davis looked like a superstar. That was
the birth of a possible star for a lot of
different reasons. First of all, the fact that he willingly
took this fight with a man that was that much
heavier than he was, because as we discussed, he was
what six pounds too heavy plus six plus pounds too
heavy at the weigh in. Yeah, they made a financial deal.
He had to do the second day weaycheck, which wasn't
even an imposition because in the state of Virginia, every
boxer on the card is required to do a morning
of the fight way check, so he just had to
be within the linit. But he was still well over
what he was supposed to be, So that was the
first thing. The second thing is Kishon Davis against an
opponent that the folks in Norfolk, Virginia, his hometown, not
know anything about. For the most part, still sold the
building out. There's not a lot of guys can solid
a ten thousand seed arena in the United States. Even
that they're fighting in their hometown. That makes him an
attraction right away. And on top of that, he went
out there and after all the talk he did, he
took care of business and did so extremely extremely impressive fashion.
I put a thing on my social media after that
and I mentioned all the things throlling around, the weight
problem with his opponent, how much bigger he was, the
pressures of the hometown, having sold out the building, your
first main event, your first time fighting at home in
a fight as a professional, the fact that your two brothers,
your older brother and your younger brother, but had both
already won on the card, and now it's all on you.
He just go in there and get some you know,
run of the mill, you know, a forgettable kind of victory.
He went out there and he closed the show like
the superstar is supposed to do. I said it was
one of the most impressive performances based on all those
facts as I just mentioned that I have seen in
a very long time, and this is a really outstanding
young fighter. Now in twenty twenty two, at the end
of the year, I picked him as the prospect of
the year. We followed him since he turned professional after
the silver medal victory, and well, actually I take that back.
He actually had had two or three fights prior to
the Olympic Games. Matter of fact, I've told the story
about being in the car with him and his brother in.
I can't remember where we were, but I was at
a Canelo Alvarez fight and we were going to the airport.
Speaker 1: It was one It was the one at Cowboys Stadium
that he was undercard when he beat Billy Joe Saunders,
right right.
Speaker 2: So myself, Keishawan and Kelvin, his older brother, were in
the car going to the airport. We just happened to
be in the same car, the shuttle that was going there,
and we were just talking about the fight. And then
it was the next day it was announced he's on
the Olympic team, that he was going back to the amateurs,
and he knew that when he was at in the
professional fight, so he was able to compartmentalize. So he's
got a good head on his shoulders. But the thing
about it is also remember he had that terrible no
decision against Nahir Albright where he won the fight, but
it was a very sketchy performance. He got the deserved decision,
and then after the fact that he had the failed
marijuana test, so he was hit with the suspension because
it's against the rules of the commission where they boxed
in and he also had the fact that he got
suspended for six months. And ever since then, you know,
you're kind of worried, Well, which way is he gonna
go with his career. He said he'd stop smoking weed.
It's made him a better person, a better athlete, better
to do what he's going to do as a fighter.
And in the three fights since that situation, he's looked spectacular.
The victory against Uh what totally destroyed Jose Pedraza, the
real ragged, tough decision he grinded out against Madueno. And
then this at the hometown to just pummel Gustavolamos, who
had absolutely nothing. He scored, you know, two knockdowns and
uh and just a you know, a devastating knockout uh
in the second it was in the second round, ye
in the in the third in the second time. In
the second round, Yeah, looked really, really good. And by
the way, he knew this going in and now it's
you know, I don't think it's like a signed or
done deal, but very very likely his next fight will
be for a world title against Denny's Barentchik for the
w b O belt. He is in that position with
the organization, as he said to me in the interview
that we have on the podcast a couple episodes ago,
him and Barentchek, who is not promoted by Top Rank,
but they have an option on his next fight because
of the fact that they did the title fight against
Brian Norman, I mean, not against Brian Norman against Santition Uh,
that that that's probably gonna be the fight, and that
they've been going back and forth on their direct messages
about fighting each other. That's another that's another good test
because you know, say what Joan about Lamos whatever, Branchick
was an Olympian, He's got a world title. He comes
from that group of guys with Usik and Lomachenko and
UH and the and the great Ukrainian team that that
they produced h that that also had Alexander Votzik. I
mean just there's a really superb group of fighters that
came out of that team, and Brentchick was part of that.
He's just sort of kind of come to the pros
with or some wreck ignition much later than those other guys.
But anyway, the bottom line is Keishon Davis look absolutely spectacular.
He brought life back to the scope where hadn't had
a big fight there since thirty years ago when Pernol
Whitaker was the welterweight world champion. He defeated Buddy mcgert
in that same building in a rematch. This is in
October nineteen ninety four, so almost thirty years practically to
the day that that occurred. So look, he's on the
upswing big time. I'm feeling real good about my prospect
of year pick a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he looked tru I can't add much more to
what you said other than that was an electric performance.
He's got big time punching power in either hand, which
we like. So there's a lot to like there. There's
a lot to like from Keishon, and let's see if
the title fight will be next.
Speaker 2: I just kind of love the attitude that he had
all week, you know, just taking care of business like
a trip. You know, you've seen your business man. He
did the professional thing the way we carried himself.
Speaker 1: We've seen to your point, some of these guys reached
his prograe in New Orleans and a couple of others
that he is who we're going to talk about in
a little bit fighting in the hometown, and then they
just look awful for whatever reason or plural that was
the opposite here.
Speaker 2: And it's not only not only does are the brothers
fighting out there, and he's got his sisters or singing
the national anthem. I think it's like it's like a
dream come true for the kid who he you know,
he's talked about this in the on the broadcast and
the interviews he did beforehand. When I interviewed him about that,
he and his brothers, you know, had talked about this
ever since their amateur days, about you know, someday having
this type of caliber event in Norfolk. And this is
not the end. This is the beginning. Now when he
fights for the title, you know, who knows if it'll
be in Norfolk. You know, Brenchick may have a say
about that, but you can be damn sure if he
does win the title, they're coming back to. I would
be willing to bet you anything that his first defense
will be in Norfolk, Virginia, and when that happens, I
may very well, TJ love the Amtrak and take the
three and a half hour rides out.
Speaker 1: Oh that's three and a half okay, well even on
the Amtrak, all right.
Speaker 2: Well, the the M track it's about Yeah, maybe it
worth it, worth it. I'll make the trip down there.
You know What're a crazy teacher. I've lived in Virginia
now for almost twenty five years, and I've never been
south of Richmond in my own state. Really, yes, sir, wow,
I've never been to that area. My wife has been there.
I have never been there, though.
Speaker 1: You're about to have a reason to be there. If
it's a world title fight.
Speaker 2: I can't wait.
Speaker 1: I look forward to that. Yeah, credit on him all right.
On the undercard, Troy Issley, his Olympic teammate, the former Olympian,
is victorious Abdullah Mason with a knockout. What else stood
out from the Friday Night undercard The top rank undercard.
Speaker 2: Well Isley in the co feature. Issley is also a
Virginia fighter, fighting his first fight as a professional in
his home state. He actually lives from in Alexandria, Virginia,
which is the next town over from where I live,
and he was in there against a fighter named Tyler Howard,
who was, you know, got a good record going in
with twenty wins and just one defeat and eleven knockedouts,
but really club level kind of fighter. And I was
kind of disappointed that was a bad fight Howard. It
was mostly Howard's fault. He just would not fight the guy.
But you know, Eisley could have definitely and his Isley's
shown some moments where he looks like he could be
a real serious player, and he's got some solid wins.
He's now working with Brian McIntyre. It wasn't like it
was a bad performance. And he got to win, no
doubt about it. He won, you know, nine to one
on two cards and eight to two and the other
he clearly dominated the fight. I was just a little
disappointed that he wasn't a little more aggressive to try
to go get the guy when he's so far ahead.
And when I say that, I don't mean to be
reckless and drop your hands and put yourself in some
kind of bad position, but you can step on the
gas a little bit. And it just it was fought
at such a monotonous pace. Every single round felt like
the same, whether you're watching the first runner and watching
the ninth or the tenth round. So he wins the
fight and did the job, and you know he's moving
on and he's putting himself in a you know, closer
and closer to being a position for a title opportunity.
He moves to fourteen and zero. And to me, the
question I have about Isley is this, can he get
himself to the next level. There's no question he's got
the background with the Olympics. He's got a great coach
in terms of the team around him with Brian mcintie
and that whole team. Not to mention, you know, being
in in the gym with a guy like Terrence Crawford
and some of the other guys that are there. He
does have a close relationship with fighters like Keishawn Davis.
They support each other so that the infrastructure, if you will,
for the young man's career is there. He has ability,
and he just want to see him be a little
more like just something a little more of a spark
in the way he fights. But he's got talent and
I won't be surprised if he gets a title opportunity.
Maybe it'll even win one at some point. But that
was the co feature. Now you talked about the main
fight below with the two main fights, that was the
Abdullah Mason fight against Johann Vasquez, a lightweight Abdullah Mason
who most people are looking at as a high candidate
for Prospect of the Year this year. You saw the
fight TJ. What absolutely this is what I would call
an electrifying shootout for two rounds. I mean, absolutely chaotic,
absolutely nuts. You know. The bad news is that Abdullah
Mason would look absolutely flawless to his first you know,
fifteen fights of his professional career. Now he goes into
fight number sixteen and what happens. He gets knocked down
twice in the first round and.
Speaker 1: This and this was trouble and this is where you
find out what a guy's made of to some degree,
right Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean he wasn't that hurt, but he got clipped
and you know by a non uh not a you know,
the guy he thought was not like a bomb or anything,
but a guy with you know, had a pretty good
record of twenty six wins five losses going in. I mean,
he was at a certain level, but uh, I guess
you got to say he's the best guy that Abdula
Amazon had fought so far.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: And he kept getting hit with I think it was
like the left hand, but he also got knocked down himself,
and Mason was able to come back and stop him
in round two. Uh, you know, and and just a
very explosive like that's probably kind of a you know,
a Round of the year type round, you know what
I mean. I mean, Desquez lands the clean left in
the first round knocks him down. That first round was
absolutely nuts. Like I just mentioned, Mason got got hurt
by a right hand later in the round, and then
as soon as he got hurt with that shot, he
immediately landed his own shot that was a beautiful left
uppercut that put Vasquez on the deck and a lot
harder of a manner than Mason had gotten knocked down himself.
Like Mason, he got hit clean and he went down,
and I never got the feeling he was really badly hurt.
But when he responded to the next shot that he
got touched with and dropped Vasquez, Vasquez was absolutely hurt.
He also looked like he twisted his knee on the
way to the canvas, which couldn't help the situation. But
then so he got up and he was still kind
of shaky from being dropped, and he comes back and
he lands the hook on Mason's chin and he goes
down for the second time. So he had those knockdowns
back and forth in the wild first round, which was
highly unexpected. But then in the second round, you know,
you know, Mason took it to him. The left hand
was very, very debilitating. He kept hitting him with the
left hand, he hit him with a body shot and
on the second and then he knocked him down with
the body shot that really did it. Is the final knockdown,
and you know, he just went to a knee. You know,
I don't know if he just couldn't get up or
didn't want to get up, or didn't know where he
was or whatever, but he stayed on the knee and
he got counted out. But on the one hand, you're right,
he showed a little bit about what he's made of
in terms of overcoming some adversity which we have not
seen in any of his previous fifteen professional fights. But
then you also have to wonder and be questioning, and
I think it's fair to say Hey, you're gonna get
dropped two times by those types of shots, Like what
are you gonna do when you're in with a really
serious opponent, So you know it's a double edged sword.
I guess he does have things he can go back
to the gym and work on. It doesn't take away
the outstanding year he has had. He's now five to
zero with five knockouts in twenty twenty four. He was
talking about it in the interview afterwards. I want to
be prospect of the year. Some people might have a
change of heart when they look and see what happened
in this particular fight, and it's gonna be a lot
of fun to watch him and see how he continues
to develop. I think that, you know, top rank, they
have excellent matchmakers, and they'll maybe they'll rain him in
slightly at least in the next fight before they they
maybe want to him up a little bit more next year.
He did make mention in his interview that that would
be his last eight round fight. I'm not entirely sure
that's going to be the case. I don't know if
he's ready to jump into tens. I know this only
went two, but you know, you might have to go
to ten if it's scheduled for ten. So there's no
rush with him. That's the thing. He's just a young guy.
I mean, he's in the sport. He's really just a
baby basically, so he's only twenty years old. So there's
really no hurry to jump into ten rounders to really
dramatically step up the opposition. But from entertainment value, TJ,
what an exciting two round fight.
Speaker 1: And again the Davis brothers were both winners and ray
Selem was also a winner. It was a lot on
that card.
Speaker 2: On Friday night. Kelvin is the older brother. He won
a decision against his opponent. Yeah, yes, Solano. The exciting
moment in there was you know, he dominated the fight,
want to shut out on one card and like you know,
seven rounds to one on the other card. He did
knock him down in the last round, almost had him
out of there, couldn't quite stop him. So that was
that was his performance. And their brother Keon Davis, who's
only twenty three, who was making his pro debut after
a very good amateur career. He won a shutout decision
thirty forty to thirty six on on on their scorecards.
So it was a night to celebrate the Davis family.
Their mom was there, their scissors were there. Big deal.
And you mentioned in the opening fight, Top Rank was
taking a look at right East Allen. You know, he's
not signed to the company, but he fits in really
well at one hundred and twenty six pounds. He was
a good contender at one twenty two, had the opportunity,
didn't quite get over the hump and a title eliminated
loss of the decision in Australia. But you know, the
guys at Top rank know him. He's based in Vegas,
They've seen him in the gym. The matchmakers know him,
they're friendly with him, and they had They are busy
in that weight class. I had one hundred and twenty
six and one hundred and thirty. Top Ranks had a
lot of business and so you can you know, there's
never you know, he can never have enough good contenders
and right eas aleem one percent fits in that category.
So I think what they saw was him win by
a shutout. It looked good had had been off for
a little while, and it wouldn't shock me if they
give another fighter, maybe sign him to a contract and
you know, put him in the mix with some of
the other guys they have in the division, either at
that weight class or even at the one hundred and
twenty six pound weight class. So he fit in good
there and he got the head a round decision. On
to the next.
Speaker 1: Onto The next for us is the Saturday night Matchroom
de Zone card in Philadelphia. As I alluded to at
the beginning here of the pod, Jaran boots Ennis, same song,
second verse, better fight here, more competitive fight. He does
get the win. I know you're touting. You called it,
you got the decision. I thought you were dead meet though.
I thought you were like on the grill, like the
stake I had on the grill Friday night at the
Reeves Household when Ennis got the knockdown of a Chikazian.
But the end result is Chakaziin got up, was tough
enough to hang in there, and from my standpoint, he
hit boots Ennis an awful lot throughout this fight. Throughout
the back half of this fight, he continued to hit him.
I think there's some question marks about Innis's defense, his
hands being low. I mean, you know so sure you're
gonna get hit on occasion, But I thought he'd got
to me he got hit a lot in this fight,
so he ends up winning. There's not a dispute or
a question whether he won. But I think we have
a question mark about lack of defense, and we saw
this in another in his fight too, where he took
some shots in a fight. Right, How concerned are you?
Tell me what you saw out of the IBF welterweight
champ getting the victory.
Speaker 2: I think all those things you said are fair game,
no question about it. I think it's a few different things.
One and I'll take him for his word. He spoke
about being tight at one forty seven, that it's becoming
more difficult for him to make the weight and so
maybe he didn't have the easiest weightcut this time, and
he's been in the welterweight division's entired career. He's still
twenty seven, but it may be time, as he said,
and as promoter Eddie Hearn said, maybe time to move
up to one hundred and fifty four pounds. So that's
the first thing, perhaps that's part of the performance. The
second thing is he alluded to that it might have
been hard to get up to fight Shikonzi because they
had already fought a year and a half ago, and
he didn't just win the fight, he won every round.
So even if you train hard and you come in
good condition and all that, it stands to reason that
somewhere in the recesses of your mind, you're not taking
maybe as seriously. You don't feel as threatened if you're
fighting another top name or another champion or something like that.
So you might, like, you know, the the terminology that
Eddie Eddie hearn uses like. He wasn't necessarily switched on
the way he would have been if it was a
better opponent. So I think there's something for that, because
he won twelve to nothing. But here's the thing. When
they met in the rematch, the style of fight that
chakazi And brought to the ring was one hundred and
eighty degrees different. I mean, in the first fight, he
ran the whole fight. He did not engage at all,
refuse to fight. The guy boring, stinking, running, holding mess
and boots just you know, outpointed them very easily. This
was the exact opposite. Chakazian stood his ground, he fought back,
he was aggressive, He landed some heavy duty punches, he
took some heavy duty punches. Sot A tremendous chin, and
so maybe he was a bit surprised to see that
kind of game from a man that looked exactly the
same as the guy that stood in front of him
a year and a half ago. That back then he
had hair and the Jikazi that showed up on Saturday
was bald. But the point is they're the same guy,
and like he's fighting an entirely different style of fight,
and he showed a great chin. And so the combination
of maybe having the weight problems, not being as mentally
geared up for this fight because of what he'd already
had done, and then finding out that the guy is
going to fight entirely different, uh, and you know you
can't put him away. And as you mentioned, a leaky
on the defense, I mean, you know, it was like
the Titanic in the Iceberg, the leaks, the leaks, the leaks.
I mean, you got to shore that up. If he's
in there with a top notch guy. They're talking about
him fighting that one hundred fifty four against Virtual artis
if your leaky defense is like that against the Vision Artist,
you're going to sleep because that's a guy who's a
big puncher. So it was not a great performance, but
maybe we'll spur him on to realize I got to
get my shit together and be better. I'll say this also,
and I'm a Jaron Ennis fan. I think he's a
tremendous talent. He's got a nice personality. They interviewed him
a couple times, likable for a lot of different reasons.
Drew a crowd again, maybe not as big as what
they drew back when he fought that I have an
Essen fight in July. The second time was not as
big a deal as the first time. Part of that
was the opponent. But here's the thing. For all the
lauding that he's getting from a lot of people about
being a pound for pound talent and in this future
superstar and blah blah blah, hasn't had a chance to
show it against top opponents. Yet. Part of it's not
his fault because a lot of guys didn't want to
fight him. But if you really get down and look
at who he actually has fought, it's really a very
weak group of opponents. I mean, when your best opponent
is like a used up Sergey Lipinitz, or maybe a
David Evanissian, or maybe a Romantia, like, it's not a
murderer's row. So and then you see the performance against
that he turned in on Saturday night, and you have
to question, do we really think he's pound for pound?
That was not a pound for pound performance. Now, I
don't have him on the pound for pound list, and
I don't think he's fought anybody that would have warrant
you to put him on there. Now, if he had
that kind of performance against a guy that everybody thought
it was a pound repound guy, you could maybe make,
you know, you could understand and rationalize it because well,
he's fighting an elite, elite opponent. That was not the
case with the Garden. He faded on Saturday, faced on
Saturday night. So they want to unify. I get that.
I look around at the way class and I'm thinking
to myself, there's good fighters there. Mario Barrios, who's gonna
fight on the Tyson Jake Paul card coming up on Friday.
You got a Brian Norman who they tried to make
a deal with before this Chakazian fight was made, and
they obviously failed in those negotiations. Maybe they can, you know,
revisit that. Although Norman is supposedly going to reschedule the
Quavis fight for the early part of next year. We'll
see what happens with that. And the other title holder
is Amantis Stanionis, who's a WBA title holder. So all
solid guys, but none of those are what I will
consider like a big fight. There is no like, you know,
Terrence Crawford, Keith Thurman, Danny Garcia, John Porter, Errol Spence.
I'm thinking of that group of guys that were in
and around the championship level for a long time. The
division has gone over a complete facelifts. So none of
those opponents are going to give you a huge amount
of credit or money for that matter. So maybe the
right move is to go to one fifty four. You've major,
you know, you won your title, you defended it a
couple of times. You move up to one fifty four.
They're talking about doing the Virtual Ortise fight. That's a
fight Edie Hearn wants to do. That's a fight Oscar embraces.
That's a fight that I think Turkey al Chic would
be interested in. And that's a fight where we can
see one of the you know, one of the one
of the I think that'd be an absolutely amazing fight
if you put those two guys together, if they're not
if they're will as long as they're willing to do
the match, so I think that might be the best case.
But I was, I mean, the crazy thing is as
much as the first fight between Ennis and Chikazi and
Suck the Bone a year and a half ago. Uh,
the fight on Saturday was a pretty entertaining fight relatively speaking.
Was that it was kind of a nun They were
all sort of the same, but it was.
Speaker 1: I kind of flew by it. He could have put
him away in the fifth and again to Chikazian's credit,
he got up, he fall back, he survived the round,
and he kept fighting and he kept landing. It was
a compelling fight. He even landed big, like in the
eleventh round where it looked like he might have buzzed
Jeron in Us for a minute. So yeah, competitive fight,
and I agree totally with you. There are still questions
to be answered at the higher level.
Speaker 2: So the in the fifth round though he mentioned like
I think he took that he took a knee more
more just to get away from more punishment than opposed
to like really being badly hurt. So that to me
told me at least Takazi and has some intelligence when
he's fighting. So the knee, I think was more self
preservation than oh my god, I'm really hurt and I
have to go to the canvas. So that's the first thing.
And then also later in the you know, because he
was taking a lot of punishment and he was kind
of fading in the later part of the fight. He
was getting really tired, so he resorted to a lot
of holding. And finally the referee, who was Harvey Duck,
who was one of the best referees in boxing, did
take a point from him in a round ten, So
at that point, you know, he's way behind in terms
of the scoring. I will say this though, I thought
the scores that Steve Weisfeld gave out which was one sixteen,
one ten and Eric Marlinsky won seventeen one oh nine,
thought those were very reasonable cars. You could have maybe
had it one eighteen to oneh eight and that would
have been reasonable. I did think that the Braslow card
one nineteen one oh seven was was really outside of
the realm of like an acceptable score. There's no doubt
in my mind that Chickanzi won more than one round
of that fight, but gotch You know, we always talking
about this.
Speaker 1: The the bottom line is in this one, and there's
more to prove all right now where you're saying I'm
not sure if Jaron Innis deserves to be or actually
you were saying he doesn't deserve right now to be
in the pound for pound.
Speaker 2: He did, he didn't deserve it before this fight.
Speaker 1: The co feature fighter Jesse Vam Rodriguez is certainly making
a case, especially he's a smaller guy. What an explosive
performance from him as advertised, power in both hands, and
he wipes out Pedro Givara, including a big time uppercut
that that leveled him and finished things off. Your thoughts
on his title defense and his ceiling continues to rise
and rise.
Speaker 2: This guy, he's a fantastic fighter. I mean, Guivara was
not close to his best opponent, But a couple of
things about Govara very experienced, been into a lot of
top guys, had never been stopped before, was a champion
in a smaller weight division. Earned this fight the hard way.
He went on the road to Australia and he won
a well deserved split decision over Andrew Maloney in a
fight that took place earlier this year. So he gets
this opportunity now to fight Bam. And I thought that
he would get knocked out, but I thought he would
take this fight much deeper into the fight because of
his experience and and all the reasons I just said
to you, and be dam Redriguez has never really shown
himself to be like the fastest start of the world.
He's got when he does get knockouts, a lot of
them have been you know, later in the fight, a
couple of early knockouts along the way. But anyway, uh, Bam,
Rodriguez is a fantastic count. I mean, he scored a
spectacular victory in his last fight back in June when
he when he just pummeled on Wan Francisco, a Straut
who was a future Hall of Famer to start his
second reign with the WBC title. This was the belt
he gave up by the way, had moved down in
wait and when he came back to the division, you know,
he's like, this is the guy that housed my old title,
and he knocked him out. So he took him back
and he won the lineal title in the process. I mean,
I don't know what else you can say about Bam
Rodriguez except he is a worthy fighter on the pound
for pound list. Where you place him, I think if
you had him, I mean, Eddie Hern, you know, will
take his opinion with a grind of salt because he's
his promoter. He said he's number three. I don't think
he's quite that high, you know. I still look at
the top three at a certain level above everybody else,
and that's in whichever order you choose to put them.
Crawford Ousick and in a way, and then there's a
bunch of guys that fall into the category. You could
talk about better BV. You could still talk about Bevil,
you can talk about Canelo, you can talk about Bam Rodriguez.
I mean, these are the guys that are in that conversation.
There's a lot of talent, but there's no question that
he's among that group in the elite, certainly in the
top definitely in the top ten as no matter how
how you put him up there. I mean, let's look
at what he's done, you know, destroying Sonny Edwards, an
undefeated fighter, to unify last December, a Strata fight that
I just mentioned in June. Now Here we go a
couple of months later and he's knocked out Pedro Gavar,
a guy who had never been stopped before. But the
way he went about it, the uppercut that scored the
second knockdown in round three was so fucking pinpoint and
so perfectly placed. It was short, it was inside. He
didn't have a lot of room to maneuver in terms
of to extend the shot. It was so perfectly placed.
The guy just never saw it. He just absolutely eracis.
Speaker 1: What's interesting, if I can interject, he almost landed it
about five seconds earlier. He set it up and missed,
then he kind of circled what do I know, came
back to it and bingo, right on the chin. This
guy's got juice. This guy is fun to watch. Give
me more, Please give me.
Speaker 2: Here's the interesting thing. I mean. When Wavara came out
to start the fight, he was moving a lot more
than I think anybody expected. He was trying to show
him some flashy footwork and play keep away a little bit.
And uh and Rodriguez, you know, he did not get frustrated.
He didn't go start to like run after him and
go wild and and and get out of his game.
He just kind of kind of reeled him in a
little bit, kind of made him finally come to him
a bit. And uh, you know, landed the left hand
that dropped him the first time. Uh, govar and beat
the count. So credit to him for gettingup because that
was a rough knockdown, it seemed to me. Uh. But
then the uppercut hurt him real bad. Uh and uh
and and that was all she wrote. I mean he
fell flat on his back. I mean the referee I
only think finished the count. Uh, but he probably could
have counted, you know, to twenty five and he would
have been out ski not because he was unconscious, but
he just wasn't gonna be able to get up, I
don't think so. Look the fact that they were able
to put Bam and Boots on the same card. Uh,
that was a good thing. It turned out to be
two interesting performances. You know, one was better than the other.
Obviously we know who we're talking about there who was
the better one? But uh, you know, Bam Rodriguez, this
is a dude that is just spectacular. And let me
tell you something right now, in twenty twenty five, I'm
just looking to see who's going to actually be willing
to fight this guy because in his own weight class,
you know, they claim he wants unifications. That's that's like
when everybody wants that. I think the problem is at
Junior Banham. Wait, the IBF title is now vacant because
Fernando Martinez vacated, So I'm not even I forget who's
going to be fighting for that title, But it's not
big names. Fernando Martinez still has the WBA title. He's
fighting a rematch with Ioka on December thirty, first New
Year's Eve in Japan. Bam has the WBC title and
then recently crowned WBO title holder is for Malayle Caufu unknown.
I'm making the point here is that for him to
get a unification would be either a CAFU fight or
the winner of Ioka Martinez, who are better level of
a name than a CAFU. Maybe that's a possible fight,
but it wouldn't be until you know, probably next spring,
and I don't know if that's those are big enough
names to really make it worth the while, if that
makes sense, So I think he might have a hard
time getting a unification. So as he said, and has
been the discussion even before the fight. If you can't
get a unification, it's probably gonna be Roman Chocolateito Gonzalez. Now,
I don't like that fight, and I'm gonna tell you
because I'm a huge Chocolatito fan.
Speaker 1: We've talked about that.
Speaker 2: He is thirty seven years old, he's in the twighlight
of his career. He's had one fight in what twenty
some months when he came back in this past summer.
It's got a nice victory, and we've talked about how
you know, mister Honda, who's the co promoter of both fighters,
doesn't necessarily want to put them together. Both fighters now
are calling for it to some degree, maybe it will happen.
And while I respect Jesse Bam Rodriguez for taking that
fight of offer because he can get a huge name
on his record and make a lot of money for
the fight, so fair enough, I just think Roman Gonzalez
deserves better in a farewell type fight because, as I
say TJ. And I'm not the only one in boxing,
they don't give you a gold watch on the way out.
They give you a beating. And to me, as awesome
and as legendary as Roman Gonzalez Is and his bigger
Roman Gonzales fan as there is on this earth. That's
a bad fight for him. That's a that's.
Speaker 1: The idea of reference like holme z Ali and we've
seen other ones.
Speaker 2: Where it's quite that bad. But it's just.
Speaker 1: Young Tiger, the young big time fighter against the aged
guy that doesn't have the same reflexes.
Speaker 2: But if the match TJ and if if Bam were
to win the fight, you know, as he said, it's
it'd be I'm taking them all out because he'll have
now over the course of these last couple of years,
taking out all four of the of the so called
four Kings of this year of that division are in
around the division, which is Quadrus Sir Rungby si Estrada
and Chuck Latito on deck Off. It happens so and
by the way down the road, he's looking at guys
like Nakatani, guys like in a way, I mean, those
are Hugemongus fights. Also, so Bam Rodriguez is a superstar
waiting to happen and just an awesome talent.
Speaker 1: Love it. San Antonio's Finals all right, real quick. Raymond
Ford bounced back on this card and won the vacant
whatever it's worth WBA Continental North American title. I didn't
know that was at stake, but hey, it's all my rundown.
Speaker 2: If it's on your rundown, that's me, miss that's my mistake, actually,
but you didn't leave it on there. But he won
a regional belt.
Speaker 1: Who care he wins and then what else from this
undercard and then we'll move on.
Speaker 2: Well, last and Raymond Ford was making his debut at
one hundred and thirty pounds. He had come off having
he remember he won the title in that dramatic, dramatic
fight the vacant title earlier in the year where he
came back in the last couple of seconds to defeat Kolmotov.
And then, unfortunately for him, when he went to Saudi
Arabia and he fought on the five on five card,
he lost the title to Nick Ball in a really
good fight, but a very close fight. And you know,
we all knew that going into that match it was
gonna be his last fight at Fetheruary. He was really
really having a lot of trouble making the weight, but
he stayed because there was a chance to defend the
title and make obviously his biggest payday. So he goes
up to one hundred and thirty pounds, and let me
tell the TJ, he looked way way better. He looks strong,
he looked good those I mean, I know it doesn't
sound like normal, but those four pounds, it doesn't seem
like a lot. That's a big deal for some of
these fighters. I mean, he looked so much more comfortable,
so much healthier, if you will.
Speaker 1: We talk about it all the time. Also, the strain
of trying to make that weight cut, that weight drains
a fighter. Obviously that's having that problem. And so what
you're saying is he didn't look like a strained, drained fighter,
and that's good.
Speaker 2: He's going to be a problem at one hundred and
thirty pounds. I think he's got a good chance to
become a champion again in his weight class. He fought
Orlando Gonzalez, not a bum, had one five fights in
a row, tough guy, good record twenty three and two
coming into the fight. And again it wasn't like he
even had to He didn't. It wasn't even close. I mean,
Raymond Ford won basically on the official judges cards. He
won two by shutout, one of the judges gave Gonzalez
one round, which seemed reasonable. He scored two knockdowns. He
did everything you could ask him to do except get
the actual knockdown knock out because Gonzalez was just such
a tough customer. But that was a really good performance,
a great way to kick off his campaign at one
hundred and thirty pounds. I think he's going to get
an opportunity to fight for a title. You know, he's
a very good young fighter. I know he had a
disappointment losing the fight the way he did against Nick Ball,
but that victory had against Kolmotov is one of the
best fights of this year. And this was a really
outstanding performance. And like I said, he brings definitely some
danger into this weight class at one hundred and thirty.
Speaker 1: All right, good stuff. Also, Manuel Diego's won on the
under car by TKO sol did Austin Amo Williams anything
real quick on either of those or shall we move on?
Speaker 2: Well, I just all talk for just a quick minute
about Manuel Diegos. This was a fighter that at one
hundred and sixty eight pounds in his previous fight, turning it.
You know, he was a solid opponent, but he got
knocked out by Diego Pacheco, who was one of the
best young up and coming fighters in boxing. So he
goes up to one seventy five, where he says he's
much more comfortable. He was fighting Khalil Co, who was
considered a good prospect by pretty much everybody. He looked
really good in his last four or five fights, scoring knockouts,
came in good shape after having some trouble with his
conditioning at the very beginning of his career, and you know,
big things were expected of him. He's now fighting on
the main cards, not the you know, before the bell
and he just, you know, after about four rounds where
he had dominated pretty much, I don't know, he got
hit with something that that did not agree with him,
so to speak, and didn't look like he maybe had
turned in the best training camp of his life. And uh,
he paid the price because he got knocked down four
times and got knocked out in a ninth round knockout.
Big upset, and uh, Khalil Coe's career, Uh was looking
great after four rounds and now it's in the toilet
after a ninth round knockout. And guye Goos, I mean
at light heavyweight. He seems reborn. I'm not saying he's
gonna be world champ, but if I'm if I'm UH
managing a young prospect, I don't want to put him
in with that dude. That's a dangerous, nasty guy. And
UH and Austin Williams, you'll listen to middleweight. Uh been
a good prospect for a while, had a rough go.
UH that will look back on maybe and think that
wasn't such a terrible loss. He was also won the
five on five card in June. UH he suffered an
eleventh round knockout against Hamsey Shiraz. But Sharraz, I think
we can all agree is UH, without question the best
middleweight in boxing who doesn't have a world title. He's
going to get a title shot in his next fight,
most likely in February. And in February, and now the
question is, you know what can Alston Williams do coming
back from that loss? So he took on Gian Garrido,
looked pretty good, Scott himself a victory in a knockout
in the fifth round, and let's see if he can
bounce back and climb the ranks and get his own
title shot down the road.
Speaker 1: That takes us to one more like the GINSU State
knives Rayphael. But wait, there's more subrio. Mattias did win
in his first fight after losing his title at one forty.
He won in Puerto Rico. It was it was on
pay per view on Saturday night as well. I have
to confess I've not seen this. I saw the result,
but tell me whatever we want to say about this
for Matias as he tries to remain a factor at one.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's not a lot to say it was.
It was Mattias coming off his loss Toparo that costume
his title. In June, he's back in action again in
Puerto Rico, which is where he's from, fighting in beamone
pay per view that his promoter Fresh Productions put on.
They match him up with the Mexican fighter named Roberto Ramirez.
And Roberto Ramirez who did not really show anything at all.
And Matias we've all known whatever you think about him,
he's definitely heavy handed puncher, and he just walked right
through this dude in two rounds, knock him out with
a body shot. It's the third time and his four
loss of Ramirez had been stopped and Mattias you know,
as they say, he dusted himself off. He's now twenty
one and two with the two losses by decision, including
the title fight that it cost him, and it was
just a matter of let me get back on the
horse and get a knockout, and that's exactly what he did. Look,
Mattias is an exciting fighter. Usually, he's a dangerous guy
for anybody in the way class. And so he's gonna
come back off this loss of the title, get the
win he just got and let's see if they can
find something interesting for him at one for I know
he lost back in June, but he's still a factor
as long as he is in condition and as long
as he's got the mindset to go in there. He's
a dangerous guy for anybody one hundred and forty pounds.
But he got tape baby steps and start somewhere after
the loss, and he did that against Ramirez and we'll
see what they pick up for him next.
Speaker 1: Good enough, all right, some news and that includes Heimi
Mungia will be back as he will fight in December.
Tell me more about the opponent and this is a
homecoming of sorts for him.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, I mean, not of sorts. He's fighting in Tijuana, Mexico,
where he has not fought. That's his hometown. It's been
it will be about three years since he last fought there.
But this is the best thing about this. Now he's
not fighting a guy that is a big name that
we've all heard about. He's fighting a French fighter with
a good record in a what's his name, Bruno Serras.
I guess who's twenty and oh with two draws, only
four knockouts. But the biggest thing, and you and I
talk about this all the time, particularly you're a big
thing is about activity. Yes, for a fighter like Heimimongia,
who had in this year a humongous fight against Canelo Alvarez.
Oftentimes when a guy gets to that point, win or lose,
they're not necessarily coming right back because they've made a
huge amount of money, they had a long promotion and
they don't need to get back in the ring. But
you know what he's besides the big massive Canelo fight.
This will be coming up on December. By the way,
he might add it as a ESPN Plus show. Top
Rank is in the Zandford Promotions is promoting the fight,
but Top Rank is still involved in any event, it'll
be his fourth fight of the year. So a young
fighter like Kaimo Mangia, still a young fighter in his career,
getting active and setting the stage to just make sure
he's in shape, make sure he's sharp. What I think
could have a chance to be a very big twenty
twenty five, whether they find him some title shot of
some of the titles, fracture with Canelo, or they make
the fight between him and Billy, which is a fight
the top rank has talked about doing. But Mangia, you know,
it's always good to see him in the ring because
he's one of the most exciting fighters in boxing, and
he's looked good and even in the loss against Canelo,
I mean, yeah, he lost the fight, but he didn't
desgrace himself. He made it exciting. He didn't win, but okay,
so what you know, someone's gonna win, someone's gonna lose.
So I'm happy to see him.
Speaker 1: Back connection And keep in mind, as we often like
to say, he is great for two reasons. He's an
offensive fighter and he gets hit. He's gonna hit and
get hit. So that's again coming in December on the fourteenth,
the week before Usik Fury rematch week on the twenty first.
All right, so another news item. This actually came up
on the bet Us Show, The Handicapping Show on Friday.
Somebody asked you this question because they had heard it
or read you hinting at it on your substack. Ike Obeyabuci,
the former rising Nigerian heavyweight contender going all the way
back to the late nineties, is in fact looking at
a legit attempt to come back. It's thirty five years later.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2: He's fifty one years old. He is scheduled to fight.
He's been deported from the United States, like he at
one point was here illegally because all of his legal problems.
He's spent sixteen years in prison in Nevada. He got out.
There was actually talking about him signing with Top Rank
after that, but he got busted on for a probation violation.
He was back in jail eventually. When he was out,
he was deported. Anyway, He's supposed to come back in
a sixth rounder in Nigeria, in a sixth round fight
on December seventh against a sub five hundred Egyptian opponent
that nobody ever heard of, who was a much younger
man at age forty seven, I might add, and I
don't know if we probably have a lot of listeners
that might might not have been born when I paid,
which was fighting. But I remember when Ike was in
his heyday, he had made his name on HBO. He
was in the stable of Sedri Kushner, who was the
late promoter who had a ton of heavyweights. He also
was a promoter for a long time with Shane Mosey.
But he made his name and his money for the
most part with a ton of ton of heavyweight fighters.
And he had Ibyabuci in that stable, and he got
him on HBO and he had a fight in nineteen
ninety seven that was the main event of an HBO
fight card against David Tua, who was the top contender.
They were both undefeated. It's probably one of the I
would say this if you can maybe talk me out
of this, but it, without questioning, is a top three
or four heavyweight fight of the decade. I mean there's
there's certainly Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson. You know, there's uh,
there's the first fight between Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield.
I mean, there's some great heavyweight fights in the nineteen nineties.
But this was a spectacular fucking war, super close. I
Babechi got the decision. I personally thought that David Tua
won that fight, but whatever, he won that fight, and
then he got a couple of small fights. Then it
comes back against the undefeated Chris Bird, who was entirely
the opposite kind of style of a David Tua. And
Bird would go on to win uh heavyweight titles twice
in his career and and and show himself to be
one of the top heavyweights of his time. And he
scored a spectacular knockout against Chris Bird. So but the
point is here, that's twenty five years.
Speaker 1: That's like, it's like a lifetime ago.
Speaker 2: And to put it in perspective, people like call me
like I'm an old man because I'm about to start
my my I'm about to, you know, be my twenty
fifth anniversary of full time boxing reporting. When he was
winning those fights, I was not covering boxing. I was
I was working as a sports writer, like covering high
school and college in some minor league sports.
Speaker 1: So it was last century, the end of the last century.
Speaker 2: So who knows how how far this is gonna go.
But the mere fact even if he has the one fight,
especially because of all the the you know he was
there for and let's not make him out to be
a saint. He was in prison for sexual assault charges.
He also had a lot of mental health problems. He
was you know, is spent time in a mental health facility.
I mean, just a mess of a of a personal
life and a life of crime. But as a fighter,
a badass when he was in his best days. But
you know, at fifty one, without having really fought for
twenty five years in a boxing ring, you know who
the heck knows.
Speaker 1: And repeat it again. This is a December fight, real quick.
Speaker 2: December seventh in Nigeria against in a sixth rounder, you know.
And I don't even know what he looks I mean
the pictures I see of him or all the file
photos that we've seen from the nineties, I don't even
know really what he looks like. President couldn't tell you
what his weight looks like, anything like that. So but
he was a guy that in boxing, along with a
few others that we could come up with, the Tony
Ayala and a few others, one of the great what
ifs of all time.
Speaker 1: Yala if. For those who don't know, tremendous rising, what
was he middleweight? Junia middleweight and went to prison And
wasn't that for murder? I believe it was or sexual assault?
Speaker 2: I can't remember.
Speaker 1: He went away for twenty or twenty five years and
we never never anybody.
Speaker 2: Can google that. The point is this, there's a few
guys that have had looked like they were on the
rise to become superstars or do big things and had
their personal sits.
Speaker 1: All the way back to Reuben Hurricane Carter, protracted by
Denzel Washington in the movie Wrongfully Accused and in prison
at the prime of his career.
Speaker 2: So yes, Imbeabuci is a classic example of what if
because he was twenty and o in his twenties knocking
out the top content.
Speaker 1: A heavyweight and the Golden Division, the heavyweight division.
Speaker 2: He was on his way to being one of Lennox
Lewis's mandatory challengers.
Speaker 1: Wow, all right, good on. Speaking of Golden Golden Boys,
Oscar de la Hoya and Eddie Hearn are talking about
a possible five versus five of Golden Boys fighters, So
uh yeah, Oscar's on social media talking about it. Eddie's responding,
what's the legitimacy here? Is this realistic?
Speaker 2: I do definitely think that there's a realistic possibility that
there'll be a five verses five between those companies. They're
both on his own. Uh, there's a definite rivalry between
the two promoters that you know, they don't seem to
like each other. They're always ripping each other on their
social media. You know, Oscar makes his his flap back
Thursday videos and he rips on Eddie all the time
about his guys losing all the time. If you listen
to the interview that that Eddie gave about, you know,
after some of the fights on his own, after the
n his fight, he was doing the interview with Chris
Mannix and he referred to Oscar as Oscar dala plunker,
which is not a good thing. So there's a chance.
But the thing I liked is that then the fights
that Oscar proposed in his video, then Eddie came back
and basically said, Dune done, Dune done. We'll do them.
You just to run through them real quick. These are
fantastic fights. One was was Virgil Artis against Boutennis, which
is a real possibility after what happened on Saturday. I
don't think there's a that there's anything that you know
that's a fight that absolutely can be made. You know,
if it doesn't happen, it's just gonna because somebody doesn't
want doesn't want to fight. Another fight that he suggested
was Heimi Mungey against Diego Pacheco. Now, Eddie Hearn made
the point, well, you know, Golden Boy doesn't really have
Heimian Munggey. If they can get him back, we'll do
the fight, because we all know he ditched Oscar and
he's with Todd franken zandfer another fight. And this is
a fight that's already been in the planning stage as
long as Williams of Paida wins his fight that's coming
up this coming weekend. Williams of paid his fighting on
on that Latino Carden read. But he wants to do
is Apaida Vsus shakor Stevenson. That's the WBC mandatory fight.
So they're already been making plans about that. Turkey Alchik
wants to do the bout, So I think that fight
absolute can happen. The other fight they mentioned was the
winner or they want to do Oscar Duarte against Devin Hainey.
Now Duarte has the fight also on that November sixteenth
card against Battier Akmadov in Pa, who's replaced the injured
Kenneth Simms. He suggested Duarte against Devin Hainey. Again, Eddie
Hearn says, we don't work right now with Haney. He's
a free agent, but you know, I'm happy to talk
to him about making the fight if he wants to,
we can put that together. And the other fight was
Oscars fighter, which would be the winner of another fight
on the on the Latino Night card, which is Arnold
Barbosa against Jose Ramirez to fight Jack Catterall, which is
Eddie Hearn's the fighter that's with Eddie Hearn. So all
five of those fights are interesting.
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't hear a fight that isn't compelling
right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think he can deliver Mongie against Pacheco
because via situation, I'm not so sure that Devin Haney
is gonna work with Eddie on that kind of a fight.
Maybe if if Turkey puts up enough money or you know,
talks to him, that's a possibility. But what I loved
is that, you know, Eddie made a post on his
on his social saying to Oscar, look, we'll make this
easy on you. Boots versus Ortiz agreedv Gia Pacheco agreed.
You know, as long as you can get him back
because your corp is a pay to agreed to Warte Haini,
you know, Han, he's not officially with us, but happy
to talk to the talking about the fight in Cato
Barbaroso Ramirez winner agreed, clean sweak. So like, I think
all of those fights are absolutely doable. That would be
a big time card for sure.
Speaker 1: All right. Unfortunately, the WBC had an announcement here recently,
if not on Sunday, that former junior featherweight world champ
Israel Vasquez is battling cancer. They're they're trying to raise
money for him. Just say a few more words about
this because obviously as fighters get older and we you know,
we lose tracked, they're retired, whatever. But here's the update
that you don't like to hear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no doubt about that. I mean we Israel Vasquez
like the quintessential all time Mexican kind of warrior. I
mean his fights against Ralphael Marquez are a famous and
they had a four fight series. Fourth fight not so much,
but the first three all fight of the year candidates.
The first one what had been the fight of the year,
but then the second one trump because win the same
year and that the game of the fight of the year.
The next year they had the third fight that was
the fight of the year. This is in two thousand
and seven. In two thousand and eight, he also was
a champion, not only at junior featherweight in terms of
the WBC, but he also had won an IBF title.
He's a you know, two of those organizations. I mean,
just a tremendous action fighter. Gave everything he ever could
possibly give to boxing. Boxing cost him the vision in
one of his eyes. This is not related to the
cancer to my knowledge. But the WBC, you know, they
do a great job of supporting their past champions and
at least bringing their issues to light and trying to
help them out financially. So they created a GoFundMe page.
You can easily look that up, and you know, Israel Vasquez.
You know, it's kind of like the old days when
they'd have a boxing match that was so great. Besides
whatever the purses the fighters would earn, the fans would
throw money into the ring or throw money into a
hat and give it out like Vasquez is that kind
of fighter. So if people can spare a couple of
bucks to support a great former champion in his time
of need who didn't make you know, he didn't make
the humongous millions of dollars the way some of the
guys have made. Yeah, he made solid money for the
period of time when he was fighting in the biggest fight,
but not the kind of money that's going to last
you the rest of your life when you retire, when
you're in your early thirties. So you know, I hope
he's okay. Tremendous fighter, tremendous guy, and he could use
all of our support.
Speaker 1: Love that and one other announcement that is that top
rank on an announcement involving Santion. We talked about Giovanni
Santion briefly earlier that he is now going to be
part of the upcoming December seventh card. Just real quick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had that very rough loss. He got knocked
out in the tenth round against the big underdog at
the time, Brian Norman, in Santian's own hometown of San Diego.
That was for the interim vacant WBO title in the
welterweight division. Santown came into that fight undefeated in a
big favorite. He got knocked out and he's doing what
fighters do. He's there dusting them off. They're going to
try to get him back into contention. He's gonna fight
on the undercart on the ESPN plus part of the
Heart that is headlined by the Emmanuel Navarette Oscar Valdez
rematch Wilsa, the Robasi Ramirez rematch against Rafael Spinoza for
the Featherway title. He will fight Frederick Lawson in a
ten rounder and we'll see if he can put himself
back in contention in a welterweight division that is pretty
much wide open. I mean, there's title holders, and we've
talked about the prospect of Boutennans moving up to one
fifty four. But if Santion can make a nice comeback,
he can certainly put himself in position to get another opportunity.
Speaker 1: Love that, all right, Nostalgia time, and I have been waiting.
I have been waiting for this, the chance to talk
about this fight yet again. It seems like every time
that you and I get to November, we can talk
about Alexis Arguayo, Aaron Pryor one. So the forty second
Dan Rayfield Anniversary is Tuesday of this historic fight at
the Orange Bowl in Miami. Let's go at it like this.
You and I have gone on on about we could
do thirty minutes on this fight. We don't have thirty minutes.
We've got two other nostalgia fights here in just a second.
But we had the legendary Barry Tompkins. And I've told
you this before, the legendary Barry Tompkins, the HBO played
by play man Hall of Fame type broadcaster. He said
to us, for everything that went into that fight and
the action and the drama and the two great fighters,
this may be the greatest fight that I ever called,
even bigger than Hagler. Hearns is Finish, Cooney Holmes, you know,
pick anything else. Mike Tyson becomes world champ, you know,
Sugar Ray Leonard over Barvin Hagler. He said, this fight,
this fight that we're about to talk about, the Hawk,
Aaron Pryor Alexis Arguayo. Go.
Speaker 2: I mean, what can you say other than this without
getting emotional about it? Just it is clearly one of
the top fights in the hit story of boxing for
a million different reasons. The unbridled action, the significance of
the world title at stake, the fact they had this
big crowd at the Orange Bowl. Argueo was a legendary figure,
was going for a world title and yet another weight class.
There had up until this point when they fought, there
had never been a title holder or a fighter to
win titles in four weight classes. Now we've seen you know,
Manny Pac, Yeah, doesn't in eight weight classes. Oscar Deloy
did it in six. If you're talking about the women,
you got a man the Serrano and what seven weight classes?
We've got other fighters, you know, Tommy Hearns did it
in five, Sugar Ray Leonard, you know, we've got a lot,
Canelo Alvarez, There's a lot of fighters that have since
been and that's partly because there's so many more organizations
than there was. I'm not knocking the accomplishments of those
particular fighters, but the fact that Urgueo was trying to
win fourth title was a huge deal, and prior, you know,
was just an an unbelievable talent at that point. Just
knocking everybody out making great fights, and it was a
true style clash. You know, Arguayo could be aggressible. It
was more the classical boxer, but could definitely go get you.
Prior was just the you know, I'm gonna just knock
your head off type of guy, although he also had
skills and was a top amateur. The funny thing about
this and I've read a lot about this fight. I've
I've revered this fight. I've collected whatever memorabilia I can
find this fight. I'm still in need of a poster.
If anybody has one out there, hit me up on
my DMS. I'm looking to buy one.
Speaker 1: Needs the poster from the adult.
Speaker 2: It does need it. It's got the the The program
is absurdly rare for reasons I still don't know the
answer to. But I do have one. I've got some
other stuff from that also, if you have a ticket,
I'm in the mood anyway. What I never really realized,
and I was, like I said, I've read about a
lot about this fight. Originally, Aaron Pryor had signed to
fight Sugar Ray Leonard in the fall of nineteen eighty two. Yes,
and and that would have been he would have moved
up in wait and fought Ray for the undisputed welterweight
title post his victory against Tommy Hearns in their unification fight.
But when Leonard suffered the eye injury and got the
detached retina and retired for one of the many times
he retired in his career, that left Prior without that
big time fight, and that's when the Argueo fight presented itself.
So ask yourself, we know what happened in Argueyo Prior.
We saw one of the greatest fights in the history
of boxing. But it does make you think, like, would
you have rather not seen that? Like behind door number
one or door number two? You can turn in Agueo
and Prior and we could get potentially have gotten Sugar
Ray Leonard against Aaron pryor another incredibly appetizing, interesting, tremendous
matchup for different reasons, but that would have been It's
amazing to me that that caliber of a fight ended
up being replaced by what turned out to be like
one of the greatest fights in the history of boxing.
And of course we all know the controversy of you know,
the what's in the bottle? The one I mixed from
his uh uh.
Speaker 1: From Lewis Panama. Lewis infamously caught on the HBO audio,
although at the time when you go back and watch
the fight in real time, they didn't pick up on
it as much. It got picked up on after the
fight and talked about after the fight, and it turns
out he did have a stimulant in the water other
fighters around Panama. Lewis said the same thing. He did
it to our water too, to help you with clearing
your lungs. Waiting sum it up.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's ever been clearly established. Some people
say it with Schnops that he was having a trying
to control like diarrhea or something. I don't think it's
been firmly established.
Speaker 1: There was a couple of other fighters who subsequently said
it was the same thing, where you drank that water
and it electrified your brain, It helped your lungs, it
helped everything there. So, for whatever it is worth, that's
another subplot.
Speaker 2: But there's this, so it's an awesome fight. HBO not
only televised a doubt, but they did the one of
their episodes of Legendary Nights that's about twenty five minutes on.
You can find it on YouTube. Amazing episode, and the
thing about Arguayo Prior. They had a rematch later, you know,
a couple of years later, I don't know, a year
and a half later or so, and another outstand fight,
not the level of the first fight, and Prior again
won by a knockout. The first fight, obviously, he stopped
him famously in the fourteenth round, stopped him again in
the in the rematch, and neither one of them ever
was really at the top again. But they became great friends.
They both had their problems outside the ring with especially
with drugs, but they became great friends, and they were
always together at the International Boxing Hall of Fame. But
this first fight that they had together, where Prior was
entrenched as the champion at the champion the of the
WBA at one hundred and forty was making a sixth defense,
it was named the fight of the decade by the
Ring magazine and plenty of other outfits. It was The
Ring named it the eighth greatest fight of all time.
This is back in nineteen ninety six. It's probably still
in that group. I remember we did a thing at
ESPN Morerie ranked top fights. I don't remember the number
we assigned it, but it was one hundred percent in
our top ten of all time. It is just an amazing,
amazing fight between amazing man. And by the way, in
terms of our Gueyo, you know, I met Aaron Pryor
a couple of times just in passing at different events
over my period of time covering boxing, Arguayo I met
on a number of occasions, actually spent some time here
and there talking with him at length about different things. Well,
what a gentleman, just an absolutely revered figure. It doesn't
get better than this fight.
Speaker 1: Great ambassador for Nicaraguan unfortunately took his life later in
the two thousands, but legendary forty five thousand plus in
the old Orange Bowl in Miami where the Dolphins used
to play, and they used to play the Orange Bowl
football game on New Year's Day. Just a lot around that,
all right. We moved to Marvin Hagler and Roberto Duran, which.
Speaker 2: By the way, just so I'm clear, when they had
the rematch, it was a little less than a year later.
Speaker 1: Yes, and not a very good fight. I mean probably
a good fight, dominated him, dominated him, and Aguayo clearly
didn't have the same stuff he had on that night.
In nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 2: And if you never saw the first fight, and you
only watched a second fight, which which prior won by
a tenth round knockout, you would say that was a
hell of a fight. When you when you compare it
to the first fight, it's hard to to look at
it in the same way.
Speaker 1: So that was forty two years ago Tuesday on the twelve,
So forty one years ago tonight, as we do the
podcast November tenth, nineteen eighty three, is Marvin Hagler's win
over Roberto Duran. Now, of the Four Kings fights, I'm
saying this, of all the Four Kings fights, this one, Yeah,
it kind of gets lost in the shuffle. Hagler gets
the win. Duran probably better than most thought, he would be,
way better, and and Hagler gets the victory.
Speaker 2: So go ahead, you said, in terms of the Four
Kings fights. So I forget exactly when I did this,
but sometime in the last year or so. It mustn't
have been around one of the anniversaries of the fights.
And you know, I'm anybody that knows me or my
collection or follows me knows I've obsessed over the Four
Kings fights for most of my life. So I did
a piece where I ranked all nine of the four
King fights, and that's the round robin fights between Sugar
Ray Leonard, Thomas Hearns, Hagler, and Durant. I ranked Hagler's
victor over Duran as number six on my list out
of the nine, So take that for what it's worth.
But this was a tremendous fight. It was as Marvin
Hagler defending the undisputed title against Roberto Durant, and I
think the fight is well. I've gone back and watch
it and it's actually better than I kind of remembered.
It might be a little bit underrated, if that makes sense.
Even though I rated at number six out of the nine,
Hagler was a significant favorite. And it just shows you
how incredible Duran is because remember Duran was at his
best as a lightweight, probably the greatest lightweight of all time. Obviously,
he scored one of the most monumental victories in the
history of the welterweight division when he de throws Sugar
Ray Leonard in their first fight. He went on years
later to win the middleway title in a huge upset
many years later against Iran Barkley in another awesome, all
time action kind of fight. So he's fighting against Marvin Hagler,
and if you take a look, yes, the line item
is Marvin Hagler wins the fight by a fifteen round
decision and he defends the title for the seventh time,
and it's the only time of his first bunch of
defenses he didn't get a knockout, so people kind of
look down on him about that. But here's one thing
that you have to remember. I think about Duran in
this fight more than I think about Hagler. And the
reason I say that is because after thirteen rounds. This
is back when men were men, so to speak, when
they went fifteen rounds. After thirteen rounds of this fight,
Roberto Duran was ahead by one point on two score
cards and the third card had a draw. So the
fight is still on the table going into and then
the championship rowns fourteen and fifteen. Even though even though
Duran is holding a very slim lead, Hagler's got his
eyes swollen, Hagler has been cut, and Hagler shows the
toughness that we know of Marvin Hagler, and he guts
it out and he wins the fight because of those
he comes out much stronger in the last two rounds
and he wins the fight. But the fact that Duran
was even in the fight going into round fourteen is
amazing considering the greatness at Hagler in the middleweight division,
and that Duran had never been in the ring with
somebody like that big and that strong.
Speaker 1: And he fo he had never fought at middleweight and
fought that competitively that late in the fight.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a remarkable performance from him just from
that stay point. And for Hagler against an all time great,
he pulls it out. Remember, Durant got the fight because
he pulled off the upset when he absolutely destroyed Davey
Moore to win the junior middleway title in June of
eighty three. Now we're here in November of eighty three
when he takes the opportunity to go up and fight
Marvin Hagler. He basically rescued his career because he was
kind of like he by the way he fought on
the undercart of Arguayo prior against a fighter named Jimmy Batten,
and he won a ten round decision that was horrible,
and at that point that was a top rank fight,
and top rank was like done with him, basically, But
he took two fights after that. He knocked out Pepino
Quavis in a tremendous knockout in Los Angeles. He just
dusted Quavis in the fourth round. Then he pulled the
upset at Madison Square Garden to beat Davey Moore, and
that convinced Bob Aram that, you know what, we were
looking for a name opponent for Hagler, and we're gonna
give him the fight. I'm gonna tell you when we're
done with this, and I'm going to bed tonight, before
I lay my head down on my pillow, I'm gonna
and I've told this before. In my drawer by my bedside,
I keep one actual book, and it's the Four Kings
Book by my dear departed friend George Kimball. It's the
history of the nine fights of these four great fighters.
George covered all the nine fights, and it's the history
of this rivalry. And I often will take it out
and read a chapter about whichever fight I'm in the
mood for. So I promise you that when I go
to bed tonight, I will be reading the chapter on
Hagler versus Duran once again, and.
Speaker 1: That leads us to one last bit of nostalgia. My friend,
you were ringside twenty four years ago tomorrow, November eleventh
of two thousand, for Lennox Lewis beating David Tua, and
it was important because it's the first time you've ever
gone to Las Vegas. You've talked about this before for
a Lennox Lewis world title fight. You were there in Vegas.
You have been there now dozens and dozens and dozens
of times since. But how about that? What do you
remember about Lewis David Tua For the third nostalgia?
Speaker 2: I remember a lot about that now. It was actually
my second ever trip to Las Vegas. One time in
my life I went to Las Vegas for non boxing reasons.
My wife and I my girlfriend at the time, went
because a very close friend of mine from college was
getting married and they lived in Vegas, and we went
to Vegas for a few days. And I remember when
I was on that trip for the wedding because I
was such a big boxing fan. I wasn't working in
boxing in any way, shape or for him, but I
purposely went to the MGM Grand to just sort of
like see like where all these great fights had taken
place at the MGM. Anyway, when I started working at
USA today, it was at the beginning of two thousand,
but it was a year where there was not a
lot of big time fights in Vegas for some reason.
There were all their other places. So I never went
to Vegas until this fight between Lewis and David Tuas.
So I start the job in like in March. This
fight's taking place in November. I'm very, very very excited,
not only going to Las Vegas to cover big time
boxing for the first time, I'm covering the heavyweight championship
of the world. This was not Lennox as some random
belt holder. He was the bonafide champ. He was not
undisputed anymore because he had to vacate one of the
he had vacated one of the belts. But he was
the champ and David Tua was the clear and no
doubt about it, mandatory challenger. Really interesting match hum on paper,
and Lennox Lewis completely dominated him and he left. David
Tua was such swelling under his eyes. Remember somebody making
the point that looked like somebody took a roll of
quarters you would get leave you're going to the arcade,
and stuffed it under his eyes. That's the way he
puffed him up like that. Lenox fought a very cautious
but superb technical fight, and David two, as I have
said many times, the best heavyweight of his time, to
never get a to win a heavyweight world title. He
had the great misfortune of the one time he got
a shot at any of the four belts that it
happened to come against the top notch prime Lenx low
was as the champ. But for me, again, it's a
very forgettable fight for a lot of people, but for me.
I had covered Lenox against Michael Grant earlier in the
year in Madison Square Garden. So this was actually my
second Lenox Lewis fight, but it was the first fight
I was sent to Vegas to cover, and so that
made a big impression of me. So if it's twenty
four years ago, I remember a lot compared to even yesterday.
Speaker 1: I got to tell you this, You and I experienced
this together. You were with me. I had never been
to a big time world championship fight in Vegas, even
though I'd been to Vegas, probably ten twelve times in
my life on vacation and other work duties with other sports.
And then I was there for the Crawford beatdown of
Errol Spence, and I said to you, there is just
something different about this place, this mythical, seemingly so far
away place to come watch a world title fight. So
I just wondered, real quick, one more time, did you
take a second when Lewis was coming to the ring
and looking around in the area to go, I am
really here and this is really what it's all about.
Speaker 2: I will tell you that I don't care. Now, Okay,
you said this was my first fight in Vegas. Now,
I went back to Vegas a few weeks later for
my second fight in Vegas, which happened to be Fernando
Vargas against Felix Trinidad, which was a classic kind of
fight compared certainly compared to Lewis and David two. That
may have been the greatest junior middleweight title fight in
the history of the division. But you asked about do
I take a chance to like take in the atmosphere
and understand and realize this. And I'll say this, I've
said this before. I have never once ever in almost
twenty five years of going to Las Vegas. Taken for
granted that I get to do this and every single fight.
I don't care if it's Vegas, New York, LA, some
small arena where I am, a small casino, but particularly
the big fights. You're in t Mobile, you're in you
know what used to be Stable Center, you're at Madison
Square Garden. I always, every single time, take a few seconds,
usually during the ring walks, or maybe during the anthems,
or right before the opening bell, when the crowd is all,
you know, all geared up to see this fight. I
take a moment and I take a deep breath and
I look around just to make sure I can remember
now where I am and how I feel, because it's
such a great filing.
Speaker 1: My story is when Crawford was coming to the ring
to lose yourself with Eminem, I'm looking around. I was
not sitting with you, I was sitting in another part
of the press area, and I'm like, my god, I'm
really here. Here we go, and there's something about that
fight fans.
Speaker 2: But when Lewis comes into the ring, like yeah, I mean,
I can't say that one stood out more than others
because it happened in my time in Vegas. I even
though it was the first one in Vegas. I now
at this point, I covered a number of fights between
you know, arriving at USA today in March and here
we are now in November. But I never took it
for granted. And I remember a lot about about about
that fight week and and just people I met and
things we did, and you know, and just the undercart
and just just a really you know, you just can't
replace that first experience of being in Vegas. And it
just so happened. I mean it could. I could have
been in Vegas for anything, right, it just so happened
that the first one was the heavyweight championship.
Speaker 1: Love it, great nostalgia, the news and the recap. By
the way, we say Happy Veterans Day to the veterans.
That includes Thomas Reeves Senior, who helped me become a
fight fan because he's a fight fan. United States Army,
my brother in law, PFC first Class Scott Franklin of
the United States Marine Corps. I don't know if you
want to shout anybody else out in your life, but
to all the veterans, we.
Speaker 2: Just don't have anybody in the family.
Speaker 1: But that's okay. All the women, all the men that serve, we.
Speaker 2: Salute you for day though actually another thing in my
immediate family, no, but my wife's mother and her father
were both Army veterans.
Speaker 1: There you go, salute shout out for Veterans Day on
Monday as we put the pot out. And my friend
it's Jake, Paul, Mike Tyson or Mike. Oh yes, all
fight week for Friday. We gotta we gotta get ramped
up quickly because all this is happening at and T
Stadium in Arlington coming on Friday night. You and I
will be in the preview mode. Look forward to that.
With that, my friend, have a great week. All good here,
love the stuff the inside.
Speaker 2: Dan Raphael, thank you, all right, you have a good week.
Speaker 1: There is Dan Raphael. I'm merely TJ. Raeves file subscribe
Rape review us. It's the fight Preach Unite recap off
for weekend for Dan. I'm TJ. Thank you for being
with us.