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Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK. 25 00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:25.319 Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 26 00:01:25.480 --> 00:01:29.519 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 27 00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:33.640 Your Host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 28 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:46.519 Good Evening, January fourteenth, nineteen twenty seven. AJ mathis a wealthy, 29 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.719 elderly chicken rancher is missing. One of the last of 30 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:54.480 the Cowboy Sheriffs, Jim McDonald is convinced Aj is dead murdered, 31 00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.519 and McDonald says he knows who did it and vows 32 00:01:57.560 --> 00:02:01.079 to prove it on her. McDonald's leading and only suspect 33 00:02:01.319 --> 00:02:05.280 is a former saloon singer and prostitute Eva Duggan Short, 34 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:09.080 Stocky and Plaine. Eva takes off with a younger man 35 00:02:09.319 --> 00:02:12.960 in AJ's Dodge Coop. They drive from Arizona to Texas 36 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:16.159 before Eva makes her way to White Plains, New York. 37 00:02:16.520 --> 00:02:20.000 While on the run, her young friend Jack vanishes and 38 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.680 AJ Skelton is discovered buried in a shallow grave. After 39 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:27.919 she's captured, Eva proclaims her innocence, but is convicted of 40 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:31.599 first degree murder and sentenced to death. Eva says if 41 00:02:31.639 --> 00:02:34.280 she was more attractive and a flapper, she would not 42 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.639 have been convicted nor sentenced to death by hanging. A 43 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:41.479 movement grows among people opposed to capital punishment to spare 44 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:44.960 Eva's life. They fail, and Eva walks to the gallows, 45 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:49.680 proclaiming her innocence. What follows changes how Arizona treats those 46 00:02:49.759 --> 00:02:53.639 sentenced to death for capital crimes. Never again will anyone 47 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:56.800 hang for murder in Arizona Because of what happened today, 48 00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:01.479 Eva Duggan died. Was justice done? You decide? The book 49 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:05.080 that we're featuring this evening is Kill Barry Forget, a 50 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:08.639 shocking true crime story with my special guest, journalist and author, 51 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:11.599 Rod Cackley. Welcome back to the program, and thank you 52 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:13.520 so much for this interview. Rod Cackley. 53 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:16.080 Hi, Dan, thanks a lot for having me. I appreciate it. 54 00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:19.319 Thank you so much, and welcome back to the program. Yeah, 55 00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.879 let's talk about right away about Eva and Jack at 56 00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:26.719 Mathis Ranch. As you open the book with this. 57 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:29.560 Okay, yeah, this is chapter one. This is time to run. 58 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:33.159 Now you've got Eva Dugan, as you said, former saloon 59 00:03:33.240 --> 00:03:36.240 singer and when her voice ran out, too much whiskey, 60 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:39.360 too many cigarettes, then she became a prostitute. And this 61 00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:41.719 was in the gold rush days up in the Yukon 62 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:45.039 that she was doing this. But now it's January nineteen 63 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:47.560 twenty seven and she's on the Mathis Ranch for their 64 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:51.159 young friend Jack. Jack is a young, attractive, good looking guy, 65 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:53.879 at least that's the way she describes him. They've been 66 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:56.520 through a couple of tough days together and now they're 67 00:03:56.599 --> 00:03:58.800 ready to leave the Mathis ranch. And this is the 68 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:02.080 ranch owned by that the elderly chicken rancher we talked 69 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:06.000 you were speaking of before. And Eva's been drinking. Jack 70 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:09.639 is wiped out, and they decide it's time to run. 71 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:13.879 Now they talk about California, but they talk about also 72 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:17.399 about Jackass. How long will these will people be missing? 73 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:20.360 Or when will they be missing this man? And for 74 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:24.000 how long? Yeah, tell us about this conversation and what 75 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:27.480 they discuss in terms of the official story of where 76 00:04:27.519 --> 00:04:28.839 Aj Mathis went to. 77 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:33.120 Yeah, See, Eva told everyone in town in this small 78 00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:36.920 town in Arizona. She told them that Aj had gone 79 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:40.199 to California, that he had given her title to the 80 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.439 ranch and permission to sell off the ranch and everything 81 00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:46.399 on the ranch, and she would take the money and 82 00:04:46.560 --> 00:04:49.519 go meet him in California where they would be married. 83 00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:52.879 That was her story, and that's what she explains to Jack, 84 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:56.439 this young guy as they're getting ready to leave the ranch. 85 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:01.600 Now she's cleaning the house. They wiped all the fingerprints off, 86 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:04.199 so you can see where this is going, and they're 87 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:07.040 ready to go. Now, as far as Jack knows, they're 88 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:09.519 going to be driving to California. He and she. 89 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:13.519 Now you talk about Eva Duggan and how she gets 90 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:16.439 to Arizona in the first place. And you tell at 91 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:19.120 that time she's forty seven years old and she had 92 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:22.240 bum and rides from truckers all the way from Alaska 93 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:25.959 and the Yukon. So tell us about Eva Duggan and 94 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:27.959 her route to Arizona. 95 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:30.759 To begin with, Eva, Yes, Dan, To begin with. Eva 96 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:34.000 was born in eighteen seventy eight in Salsbury, Missouri. She 97 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:38.199 married very young, and then her husband disappeared. Now, even 98 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:41.040 when decided she had two kids, a boy and a girl. 99 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:43.319 She takes the boy and the girl, they're very young. 100 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:45.759 She takes them up to the Yukon where the gold 101 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:48.639 rush is going on Klondike. She figures that she can 102 00:05:48.720 --> 00:05:51.399 make some money up there if not singing then doing 103 00:05:51.480 --> 00:05:54.240 whatever she can to survive. But she figures it has 104 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:56.560 to be better than Missouri, where she was born and 105 00:05:56.720 --> 00:06:00.600 raised and where her husband disappeared. So she's up there 106 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.879 and she does everything she can. In the Yukon. She 107 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:06.439 becomes a bit of a celebrity of the Yukon as 108 00:06:06.439 --> 00:06:08.920 a saloon singer. But then as she grows older, her 109 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:12.839 looks fade, her voice goes, The whiskey and cigarettes get 110 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:15.959 to her, and she becomes a prostitute. But then she leaves. 111 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:19.040 She gets married a couple of times too, and the husband's, 112 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:22.240 believe it or not, disappear, So she actually was married 113 00:06:22.360 --> 00:06:25.680 four times before she wound up in Arizona. The husband 114 00:06:25.800 --> 00:06:29.720 disappeared each and every time. So now this is December eleventh, 115 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:34.000 nineteen twenty six, and Eva is flat busted broke. She's been, 116 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:37.600 as you said, Dan, hitchhiking with truckers all the way 117 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:41.399 from Alaska down to Arizona, and she's been doing whatever 118 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:43.759 she has to do to pay for the rides. If 119 00:06:43.839 --> 00:06:45.720 you understand what I mean, I'm sure you do. 120 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:46.160 Yes. 121 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:50.000 So she winds up in Arizona and she really has 122 00:06:50.079 --> 00:06:52.439 no place to go. She finds out though about this 123 00:06:52.639 --> 00:06:55.800 elderly chicken rancher, a guy by the name of A. J. 124 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:59.399 Mathis who lives alone. They call him old man Mathis 125 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:03.199 and in the country town and he's looking for a nurse, 126 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:06.199 a housekeeper, so to speak. And she thinks that, well, 127 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:09.240 she can do that, so she goes knocking on AJ's 128 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:13.199 door and the two of them strike a friendship and 129 00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:14.279 a partnership. 130 00:07:14.319 --> 00:07:18.759 If you will, now back to January fourteenth, nineteen twenty seven. 131 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.879 Aj is gone, seems to be vanished, but his friends 132 00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:27.319 and neighbors are concerned. Tell us about this confrontation of 133 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:31.439 sorts with the neighbors and friends and Eva duggan Yeah, 134 00:07:31.519 --> 00:07:31.959 e is. 135 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:36.319 What Eva starts doing is selling off all of AJ's property. 136 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:38.839 She tells the neighbors that he gave her the title 137 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:42.040 to the ranch and permission to sell everything on the ranch, 138 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:44.720 including a cow, where she shows up at a neighbor's 139 00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:47.600 home with a cow to sell. Eva also shows up 140 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:51.199 slightly drunk. She'd been drinking, which was not unusual for Eva. 141 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:54.120 Now you have to remember or realize, nobody in this 142 00:07:54.279 --> 00:07:58.560 little town trusted Eva. No one liked Eva. They knew 143 00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:01.920 what she and AJ were doing. And you'll find out 144 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:03.879 later in the book or in our discussion what they 145 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:06.879 were doing. But nobody liked Eva. Now all of a sudden, 146 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:10.560 AJ vanishes, and no one really cared for Aja either, 147 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:13.399 to tell you the truth. But the fact is he's gone. 148 00:08:13.680 --> 00:08:16.680 So he becomes, you know, the gospip mill, the rumor 149 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:19.279 mill takes off as to what might have happened to Aj. 150 00:08:19.759 --> 00:08:22.120 And like I said, no one believes Eva in her 151 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:25.319 story that he went to California and that she's going 152 00:08:25.399 --> 00:08:27.720 to go there after she sells off all the cows 153 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:31.120 and chickens and they'll get married in California. Nobody believes that. 154 00:08:31.560 --> 00:08:34.759 Now, these friends and neighbors and fellow ranchers, they go 155 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:39.039 to talk to the newly elected sheriff, Jim McDonald, and 156 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.879 he's just been elected to the Pima County just recently, 157 00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.080 and he's a big guy, and he has this legendary 158 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:50.000 he's a courageous person by legend. What did the ranchers, 159 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.639 What do the ranchers discuss with him? What do they 160 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:54.240 tell Sheriff McDonald? 161 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:57.519 Yeah, Sheriff McDonald, as you said, one of the newspapers 162 00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:00.679 dubbed him. They gave him the nick name of the 163 00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:03.759 last of the cowboy sheriffs. This guy was a cowboy. 164 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:06.679 He was a miner up north. He was a sheriff 165 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:10.000 up north. And his claim to fame as as sheriff 166 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:13.080 was he fased down a man with a gun without 167 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:16.039 firing a shot and got into surrender. It's a big 168 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:19.039 tough guy. He's bigger than most of the men in town. 169 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:21.960 Everybody looks up to this guy, at least enough to 170 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:24.639 look him as sheriff. And they go to Jim and 171 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:28.200 they say, look, this is wrong. Eva is lying. We're 172 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:32.720 convinced that aj Mathis is dead, and we're convinced that 173 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:35.360 she did it. We need you to prove it on her. 174 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:37.960 And as you said, he just won election. This is 175 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:40.960 the first time he's ever won election to anything. So 176 00:09:41.120 --> 00:09:44.759 he knows that not only are these suspicious neighbors, these 177 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:48.039 are suspicious voters. And he's going to need these voters 178 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:48.679 another year. 179 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:52.080 Right, So now he goes over to the Mathis ranch. 180 00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:53.480 What does he find. 181 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:56.679 He goes to the Mathis ranch and he finds everything's gone. 182 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:01.960 Everything is gone, And so obviously that raises his suspicions too. 183 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:04.159 As I said, Eva went to a neighbor and sold 184 00:10:04.200 --> 00:10:06.919 to cow So he knows what's going on here. But yeah, 185 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:10.679 everything is gone. Everything is clean. Everything is much cleaner 186 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:13.679 than you think it might be or an elderly live 187 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:15.000 alone chicken rancher. 188 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:19.120 He also notices that AJ's Dodge Coop is missing, and 189 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:23.000 so then he goes to speak to Tucson to speak 190 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:27.000 to AJ's banker. What does AJ's banker inform him about it? 191 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:28.879 Yeah, and you're right, the coop is gone. The Dodge 192 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:31.320 Coop is gone, and that's a big thing. But again, 193 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:33.879 Eva said that she had permission to take that. But 194 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.519 he goes in to talk to AJ's banker, it finds 195 00:10:37.559 --> 00:10:41.320 out there's been absolutely no activity on AJ's bank account. 196 00:10:41.480 --> 00:10:44.919 He hasn't deposited any money, and more importantly, he hasn't 197 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:48.200 withdrawn any money. Now if he went to California, Jim 198 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:51.519 McDonald's figures, how's he going to go to California without 199 00:10:51.600 --> 00:10:53.919 any money? Why would he not take money? This is 200 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:56.639 nineteen twenty seven. You don't have credit cards? Then, okay, 201 00:10:56.799 --> 00:10:59.200 so you got to have cash. As Jim says, it's 202 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:01.240 only one place. The two places he could think of 203 00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:03.960 where you didn't you could go and you don't have cash, 204 00:11:04.200 --> 00:11:06.399 One is jail and the other is the grave. 205 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:10.600 So AJ's friends go to the Arizona Daily Star and 206 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:14.080 speak to one of the paper's best reporters, and that's 207 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:18.440 Jack Wheedcock in Tucson, right, And then they call one another. 208 00:11:18.519 --> 00:11:22.320 One of AJ's friends, A Matt walked her and he says, 209 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:25.600 there's just no way that AJ would have done any 210 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:28.440 of this stuff. Tell us what he says and others 211 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:31.639 say about AJ and the possibility of him going to California. 212 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:34.039 Well, the first off, they say AJ never would have 213 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:37.039 gone to California because he's just too cheap to go 214 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.720 to California. He never would have done that. And his 215 00:11:39.919 --> 00:11:42.320 friends say too that he never would have given the 216 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:47.120 property to Eva. They say that AJ did not trust her, 217 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:50.320 did not like her, and actually threw her off the ranch, 218 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:53.799 which you'll find is true later in the story. And 219 00:11:54.159 --> 00:11:58.159 so Jim McDonald, there's just one red flag raised after another. 220 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:01.360 And not only was Jim McDonald involved in this, but 221 00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:04.240 a new district attorney was also involved in this. Both 222 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:08.039 of these guys are relatively new politicians. So they excuse me. 223 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:11.480 They know the town wants this mystery to be solved. 224 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:14.240 They want AJ to be found and if Eva did it, 225 00:12:14.320 --> 00:12:15.639 they want her to be convicted. 226 00:12:15.879 --> 00:12:19.840 So how do they proceed Sheriff MacDonald still wants to 227 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:22.879 talk to Eva, Eva pardon me, and doesn't know where 228 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:26.120 she is. He decides to go back to the ranch again. 229 00:12:26.519 --> 00:12:27.159 Tell us about that. 230 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:29.840 Yeah, they went back to the ranch again looking for 231 00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:33.159 more evidence, and what they found, among other things, was 232 00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:35.679 an old ear trumpet. Now, this is one of these 233 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:38.039 things you've seen, I don't know in the old movies, 234 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:41.600 A giant, big old ear trumpet that be poo hard 235 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.200 of hearing, will hold up their ears to hear better. 236 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.440 They find it, and they find it in the oven, 237 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.480 in the stove rather and it's been burned. You could 238 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:51.720 see that somebody had tried to destroy this thing, this 239 00:12:51.879 --> 00:12:55.279 old ear trumpet. And they find other things, they find 240 00:12:55.639 --> 00:12:58.320 blood in the house, and they also so they come 241 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:00.879 to think. Jim comes to think that the ear trumpet 242 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.559 was actually a murder weapon and Aj, even though they 243 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.519 don't have a body, he's convinced that Aj was beaten 244 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:09.879 to death with the man's own ear trumpet. 245 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:13.840 Now, what about the story about this young man named Jack? 246 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:16.840 What did they hear about this young man named Jack? 247 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:17.360 If anything? 248 00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:21.000 Yeah, no, one's actually seen Jack. Okay, Jack seems to 249 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:23.399 be no one has seen him. They don't know much 250 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:25.840 about him except those who have seen him. Though. I 251 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:30.559 wonder why a guy like this, a young, attractive, muscular 252 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:32.639 guy like this, would be hanging out with an old 253 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:36.279 woman like Eva. They can't figure that out. You know. Again, 254 00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:39.120 the two of them have been seen together, and one 255 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:41.519 of the times they were seen together is when they 256 00:13:41.559 --> 00:13:44.320 were cleaning out the dodge coop. They were washing out 257 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.159 the dodge coop. When Jim the sheriff finds out about this, 258 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:49.759 that raises his suspicions. Another notch. 259 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:55.279 Now, in January seventeenth, nineteen twenty seven, Eva and Jack are, 260 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:59.440 or at least Eva is spotted in Bisbee, Arizona, one 261 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:02.000 hundred miles down the road from where they left, and 262 00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:04.919 they stay the night. What does have a Eva do 263 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.840 in Bisbee, Arizona. She goes and sends some telegrams, doesn't she? 264 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.399 Oh, right, that's where she sends the telegram. Yeah, she 265 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:12.440 sends a telegram. 266 00:14:12.679 --> 00:14:12.840 You know. 267 00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:16.279 One of the things that telegrams were very inexpensive descend. 268 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:19.080 So that's how people communicated back in those days. They 269 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:21.799 only cost a few pennies to send, and so she 270 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:24.480 sends a telegram back to one of the neighbors, a 271 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:27.279 woman named Francis Mitchell, the woman that she tried to 272 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:30.440 sell the cow to, and she tells she tells in 273 00:14:30.519 --> 00:14:33.720 the telegram. She says, you know, she and aj are fine. 274 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:36.360 They're going to get together and everything's good, and she's 275 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:38.480 going to go to California. So that's where she's kind 276 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:41.399 of laying her alibi, if you will, with this telegram. 277 00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:44.720 Now, Eva tells Jack that they need to sell the car, 278 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:48.360 and so they do that, and she also wants them 279 00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:50.919 to write a letter and a couple of postcards, and 280 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:54.720 she gives them some reasoning that he does not question whatsoever. 281 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:58.279 And so that next day, after they stay in this 282 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:01.360 in this town, she he buys a one way ticket 283 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:05.080 to Kansas City, Kansas. And as you write, it's time 284 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:06.799 to say goodbye to Jack. 285 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:10.960 Yeah, they're in Amarillo, Texas, she decides, She tells Jack, 286 00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:13.559 and he's doing whatever she wants. He's along for the ride, 287 00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:15.919 that's all he wants. He's just along for the ride. 288 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:18.600 They're in Amarillo, Texas, and he couldn't believe they were 289 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:20.799 in Texas. To tell you the truth. He thought they 290 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:24.559 were driving to California. Well, no, they wind up in Amarillo, Texas. 291 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:27.039 She has himself the used car. They get like six 292 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.360 hundred dollars for that, and then she buys his ticket, 293 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:33.559 as you said, to Kansas City on the train. And 294 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:36.399 that's the last we see of Jack in this story. 295 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:40.919 So Sheriff McDonald realizes that the key to finding Eva 296 00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:44.919 and this Jack character lie in finding this Dodge Coop. 297 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:49.679 And despite the not being registered in Arizona, how does 298 00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:53.759 Sheriff McDonald proceed with trying to find this vehicle. 299 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:57.240 Well, he remembers that either or I'm sorry, Aj has 300 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:00.440 family in California. So he reaches out to cal Fournia 301 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:03.799 state officials and finds out sure announced that card was 302 00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:09.120 registered in California. So after about almost three days, he's 303 00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:11.960 able to get the BIN number, the vehicle identification number, 304 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:15.600 and the registration number. And now he's got some evidence 305 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:18.679 there was some way that he can he hopes find 306 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:21.200 this Dodge and if he finds the Dodge, he figures 307 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:22.000 he'll find Eva. 308 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:25.320 Now there's a reward. They offer one hundred dollars reward 309 00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:27.840 at that time, then it was increased another two hundred 310 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:31.200 and fifty dollars for the arrest of Eva Duggan, and 311 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:35.039 so they also Sheriff McDonald goes to the post office 312 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:38.840 and talks to the postmaster there. What does he find 313 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:41.759 from the postmaster at the post office. 314 00:16:41.960 --> 00:16:45.200 He finds that Eva has been mailing postcards. And this 315 00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:47.639 is a way that she told Jack. Now, Jack couldn't 316 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:50.399 believe she was doing this, but she was going and 317 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:55.440 mailing postcards again to lay her alibi out, mailing postcards 318 00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:58.559 to the people of the small town in Arizona where 319 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:01.720 she and aj had, you know, made a name for themselves, 320 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:04.599 so to speak. And this gives him a clue, gives 321 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.359 Jim McDonald a clue of where she might be and 322 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:10.240 this is how she just he discovers that Eva has 323 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.680 made her way to White Plains, New York, where it 324 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:15.119 turns out her daughter lives. 325 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:19.039 Now, you talk about the arrest, and she is apparently 326 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:22.079 has a job in an insane. 327 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:24.599 Asylum, right, Yeah, isn't that ironic? 328 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:28.680 J CHERF. McDonald has a couple of law enforcement detectives 329 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:31.720 that owe him a favor, and so they go and 330 00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:36.119 find Eva. Tell us about this arrest, and as you do, 331 00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:39.920 you talk about this interrogation in a dark, cold room 332 00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:40.920 with Eva. 333 00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:43.359 Yeah, these are New York City cops, okay, And they 334 00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:46.720 owe Jim a favor because they had a fugitive they 335 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:49.599 were looking for who wound up in Arizona, and Jim 336 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:52.759 arrested that fugitive for them and held him so they 337 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:54.759 could pick him up. So they figured that, you know, 338 00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:57.000 they were going to do him a favor. Well, they 339 00:17:57.079 --> 00:17:59.799 go to the insane asylum and arrest Eva and take 340 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:02.920 her back to New York City and they're whole. They're 341 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.279 interrogating her in a cold, dark cell. Now, Remember though 342 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:10.279 Eva went through all kinds of problems when she was 343 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:12.960 up north, I mean the Yukon. She's a woman who 344 00:18:13.039 --> 00:18:15.599 made it on her own in the Yukon and the Klondyke. 345 00:18:15.759 --> 00:18:18.200 She's not put off by these tops at all. Even 346 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:21.759 though they're tough New York City detectives. They don't crack her, 347 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:24.880 and they do notify Jim that they have her, but 348 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:27.759 they get absolutely nowhere with them with her. 349 00:18:28.119 --> 00:18:31.440 She says things like, you have no body, You've got 350 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:34.599 nothing on me, You've got no body, you got no murder. 351 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:38.279 So she talks like a very hardened killer in this. 352 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:40.759 Yeah, somebody really needs to do a TV show on 353 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.039 this story. I'm telling you what, this Eva is the 354 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:46.319 greatest character in the world. She whispers to these cops. 355 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:48.440 She says, I already told you to where the old 356 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:51.039 man is. Weren't you listening? Or are you? People in 357 00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:54.440 New York just too goddamn dumb? Do you understand? And 358 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:57.519 then she says, well, the only thing McDonald jim has 359 00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.480 on me is that I was the last one who 360 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:02.160 saw A before the old guy left town. And you 361 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:05.759 know what, sometime pretty soon the old man referring to AJ, 362 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.839 will wander back home and make a fool of that 363 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:10.000 cowboy sheriff. 364 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:14.400 He has to take Eva back to Arizona via train, 365 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:17.319 so along the way he tries to confront her with 366 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:20.839 evidence that he thinks that might get her to loosen 367 00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:25.240 her tongue, but it doesn't, and so he resorts to 368 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:29.720 what people in she refers to as a poker game bluff. 369 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.920 What is one of the bluffs that he tries to 370 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:34.759 attempt to loosen her tongue. 371 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:38.160 Well, he tries to tell her that they found AJ's body, 372 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:40.599 and it's a bluff. As you say, he is a 373 00:19:40.680 --> 00:19:43.440 total bluff now, Jim is in an interesting position. He 374 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:45.559 has to buy what he called a set of city 375 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:47.880 clothes before he goes to New York. I mean, this 376 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:50.720 guy wore he always had a sombrero on his head. 377 00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:53.559 All right, this is a cowboy sheriff, There's no doubt 378 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:55.559 about it. So he buys his city clothes, he goes 379 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:57.839 into New York. He picks her up. They're going back 380 00:19:57.920 --> 00:20:00.599 on the train from New York to Arizon, and he 381 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.519 tries to run the game on her that they already 382 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:07.599 had AJ's body and if she'll confess, then it'll go 383 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:08.440 easy on her. 384 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.359 Well, what does she do? What is this bluff? And 385 00:20:11.920 --> 00:20:14.599 he gets to the point where she wants to see 386 00:20:14.599 --> 00:20:17.640 a body to believe that he has a body. So 387 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:18.240 what does he do? 388 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.920 Well, yeah, but you know what, she really she almost 389 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:25.160 buies into this bluff. She almost buyes into this bluff 390 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:27.559 because he tells her that they found the old man's 391 00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:30.519 car in white planes and she's already looking at a 392 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.880 charge of grand larceny for stealing AJ's car. Okay, so 393 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:36.920 she's looking at that. So they say okay. He says, okay, 394 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:39.240 we're going to take you or she says, take me 395 00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:41.559 to where you find the found the body, and that 396 00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:44.319 of course calls his bluff because he has not found 397 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:44.759 the body. 398 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:48.720 And what happens is that it's not the skeleton of 399 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:53.079 Aj Mathis and she laughs heartily. It's the skeleton of 400 00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:54.200 a horse, isn't it. 401 00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:57.559