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Speaker 1: Well, if you're measuring bitcoin and dollars, the equivalent question

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is how low can the dollar go? And you know,

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we know from studying fiat currencies of the past, you know,

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hundreds of them, that they all go to zero eventually,

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and so anything divided by zero is infinity. So really

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the price of anything measured in dollars could go to infinity.

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So it's not really a helpful answer, but I don't think.

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I think at some point it will not make sense

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for people to think about the price of bitcoin and dollars.

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It's like if I asked you what is the price

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of a dollar?

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Speaker 2: You are listening to Carrie.

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Speaker 3: Let'sa's financial survival Network where you get valuable information you

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just can't find anywhere else to thrive in today's trying times.

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You need the Financial Survival Network now more than ever.

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Go to Financial Survivalnetwork dot com and get your free

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newsletter and gift. Financial Survival Network now more than ever.

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Speaker 4: And welcome you are listening to and watching the Financial

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Survival Network.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, Carrie Lutz.

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Speaker 4: With us today is Alan Hibbert Goldsilver dot com. Alan

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frequent guest on the show, and haven't talked to you

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in a while, you know, last time, I think it

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was six months ago or so, gold was just kind

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of beginning its ascendancy. But cryptos, we always talk about cryptos,

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and what can you say about bitcoin here?

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Speaker 2: Alan?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Kerry, Well, thanks for having me back. Always good

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to speak with you. I'm a big fan of bitcoin. Basically,

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my thesis on it is its digital gold. So it's

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real money. It's what money is supposed to be. And

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for thousands of years, gold was our best version of money,

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and I think now we have a better version of

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money in bitcoin. So I think the reason for its

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astronomical price rise over the last fifteen years is that people,

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little by little, one at a time are figuring out

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that bitcoin is money and it's the best asset to

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hold their value for the long term if they have

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nothing else to do with it. Right, So, if you're

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going to wait ten, fifteen, twenty years or more, bitcoin

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is the place to be. And then when you have

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a reason to actually invest in something like starting a

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company or you know, investing in real estate, then you

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move out of bitcoin into that other endeavor. So that's

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why I think bitcoin is taking off, and I think

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it's going to continue and it's really exciting to be

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a part of.

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Speaker 4: Quite frankly, yeah, it certainly is. So question is how

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high can it go?

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Speaker 1: Well, if you're measuring bitcoin and dollars, the equivalent question

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is how low can the dollar go? And you know,

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we know from studying fiat currencies of the past, you know,

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hundreds of them, that they all go to zero eventually,

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and so anything divided by zero is infinity. So really

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the price of anything measured in dollars could go to infinity.

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So it's not really a helpful answer, but I don't think.

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I think at some point it will not make sense

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for people to think about the price of bitcoin in dollars.

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It's like if I asked you what is the price

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of a dollar? The question doesn't make a dollar is

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a dollar because that's the unit you use to measure

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other things. Eventually, they'll come a time where bitcoin is

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the unit that you use. You think of things as

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priced in bitcoin, and so if someone were to ask

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you how much is a bitcoin you you wouldn't even

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think about it in terms of fiat or anything else.

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The question almost wouldn't make sense. You'd just say a

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bitcoin is a bitcoin. So I don't know if that's

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a good answer for you, Kerry. But that's kind of

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how I think it's going to go in the future.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And we were talking pre call about how Wall

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Street has never been a fan of gold because you

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buy it once, there's nothing you do with it.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you sell it once, can't You know?

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Speaker 4: They came up with futures, They came up with lots

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of different mechanisms to trade gold, but you know, compared

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to traded cryptos, Wall Street was created to monetize every

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possible opportunity how to trade bitcoin ETFs, ETF's futures options

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spoty tfs. You know, there'll be an inverse ETF to

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trade bitcoin and a leveraged ETF.

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Speaker 2: You know they're going to come up with everything here,

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aren't they.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. Basically Wall Street was anti

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bitcoin and anti crypto until they found a way to

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make money off of it besides just holding it themselves, right,

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and of course they don't want to take that kind

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of risk in terms of volatility, So you're absolutely right.

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Is once they found a way to put it into

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an ETF to you know, sell futures on it, all

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these other derivatives and investment vehicles. That's when they embraced

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it and they said, you know what, this is pretty good.

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We can get behind it, and you know, it is

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attractive to a lot of investors. I mean you look

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at the Gold ETF, like Black Rocks Gold ETF for example,

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it took twenty years to reach thirty three billion in

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assets under management, and their Bitcoin ETF reached that threshold

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in less than one year. So it's taking off like

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a rocket. It's exploding. So yeah, now that Wall Street

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has a way to make money off of bitcoin and

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other cryptos, they've been braced it. And you know, if

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you're a smart investor, you can figure out which of

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those investment vehicles is going to make sense for you,

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because not all of them are are good for everybody.

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But but yeah, I think I think we're going to

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see a proliferation of assets and offerings from Wall Street. Definitely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they love this because there's no cost here.

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Speaker 4: You know, when they go take a company public, they

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got to go do due diligence, they got to send

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people out there here. The only thing they set up

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in ETF. It's like we set up an account for

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the ETF. We set up you know, we do our

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disclosures and then we sell it and we're off to

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the races. Now, presumably they're actually buying bitcoin fully funding

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these these ETFs. Do you think there's a potential for

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fraud with m Alan?

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Speaker 1: There's always the potential, But I have no evidence one

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way or another. I like to I like to think

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they're doing what they say they're doing, but you know,

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there's always a possibility that they're not. And that's kind

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of one of the reasons why investors might consider skipping

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these paper versions of bitcoin and buying the real asset.

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Same with gold or silver. I mean, you don't really

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want to hold the gold or silver ETFs for twenty years,

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not only because of that risk, but also because of

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tracking risk and management fees and all that kind of thing.

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If you're going to hold it for a really long time,

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you want to hold physical yourself. That's true of gold,

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silver and bitcoin, right. So we learn a lot of

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lessons from the gold and silver market and we apply

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them to the bitcoin market.

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Speaker 2: So I don't want to.

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Speaker 1: Raise suspicions that I have no evidence that there is

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fraud going on, but it's always a possibility. And if

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there's no fraud, now maybe in ten years.

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Speaker 2: There's a little bit of fraud.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's only partially backed by the underlying asset that

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they claim, So you never know what's going to happen

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in the future. Better safe than sorry. Make sure you

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do your own due diligence and diversify where needed.

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Speaker 4: Hey, And that's like, if the government sets up a

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bit strategic bitcoin reserve, you can't believe them because just

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like they don't have the gold, or it's questionable at

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best that they have the gold, how are you ever

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going to know that they have the bitcoins other than

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the fact we say we do. I guess you'll have

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to look at the blockchain and somehow figure out what

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they're holding.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good question. So, yeah, it's really hard

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to know if they have the gold that they say

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they have. And of course they can't just open the

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vaults and let people walk around.

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Speaker 2: You know, if they.

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Speaker 1: Created a video of them walking around and counting the bars,

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of course a video could be faked. There's no reason

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to know. And the same thing with bitcoin is, yeah,

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we could look on the blockchain, but we don't know

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who actually controls the private keys of which coins, and

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you know, there could be a technology in the future

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like zero knowledge proofs where they could prove that they

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have it without actually revealing the private keys. So it's

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possible in theory down the road that that that is,

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that that happens and then we do have a auditible

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trail of these coins, but in the current state of things,

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I don't think that's the case. I agree with you

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that it's hard to know. You know, if they have

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the coins. They say they have a fine.

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Speaker 4: Country like El Salvador that's made bitcoin their currency, who

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the heck knows whether, you know, they're not exactly transparent,

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right as any government. You know, it's an interesting thing, Alan,

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and we'll get into gold.

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Speaker 2: In a minute.

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Speaker 4: But basically everybody in this planet hates their government. Now,

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you know, I yet to find one country, maybe Finland

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they think it's okay, But everybody hates their government for

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a varacy of reasons.

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Speaker 2: It's the lack of, you know, government.

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Speaker 4: We banded together to create mutual security, and all these

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governments do is make us feel more and more insecure

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every single day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's certainly a growing trend. And you know, the

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world is obviously inching closer to World War three because

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of you know, a failure in leadership. I mean, it's

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it's amazing how how these leaders can't find a way

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to negotiate peace or around the world. I know there's

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a whole lot of history to everything, but it is

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kind of amazing. And maybe Argentina. A lot of Argentines

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love Javier Malay. You know, he lifted four almost five

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million people out of poverty in the last year, so that's.

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Speaker 2: Something might be the only exception.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and then maybe Finland or Sweden. I know in

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Sweden they didn't really do lockdowns for COVID, and there's

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the only major country in the world that didn't have

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a recession in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. But yeah,

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it's few and far between, you know. I think a

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lot of people, depending on political views or economic views

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or whatever other kind of views they have, they dislike

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their governments for different reasons as you're saying, but it

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is pretty common for people to dislike their governments. And

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I think the general trend is broken promises. Right, it

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doesn't matter if you're left leaning or right leaning or whatever.

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There's broken promises where you know, we sort of grow

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up thinking if you go to school you work hard

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to get good grades, maybe you go to college, you

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get a good job. You should be able to take

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care of yourself and your family without without worrying about money.

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And like that promise has been broken. Everyone is worrying

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about their money. Even rich people worry about their money.

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They pay attention to the markets. Am I in the

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right asset? Do I need to reallocate? It's such a

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weird phenomenon that we just take for granted, and that

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I think is a product of the monetary system that's

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all FIAT, because FIAT is fundamentally a promise and it

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is guaranteed to be a broken promise every single day.

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So I think that's where it all stems from. And yeah,

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that's how we fix it, is we fix the money.

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Speaker 4: So true, you know what you're saying, the broken promises,

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the Boulevard of broken dreams. You know, we're always looking

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for to get something for nothing, right, It's just human nature.

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Why do people go to Las Vegas even though the

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odds are stacked against them and they know it. They

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can't resist, can they?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I guess not.

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Speaker 1: I mean I've never you know, done any casino gambling

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aside from poker, which I consider more of a skill

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game than luck. But yes, a lot of people are

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attracted to that. And you know sports betting is taking off. Yeah,

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obviously that's that's the same version of the casino activities.

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And you know a lot of the crypto market obviously

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is gambling. Not I would say, not one hundred percent

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of it, but an overwhelming percentage of it. Oh yeah,

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And I don't know if you saw if you saw

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a fart coin which was launched about it, you got

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to get your hands on far coin. Come on care

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it's up to it's up to a billion a billion

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dollars in market cap and it was launched two months ago. So,

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I mean, this is this is insane. I don't know

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who is putting their money into this, but there there

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are all these different mean coins. It's absolute gambling. There's

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there's no value to the majority.

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Speaker 4: Of these coins and manipulation wise, there's no regulation here.

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Cryptos can be traded by somebody in India or China

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or in the United States and they could be front

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running it, back ending it, all of that good stuff.

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And you know, really it's uh, it's.

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Speaker 2: The wild West literally, or the wild the East.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it absolutely is, and yeah, like you said, there's

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no regulation and part of the part of the downside

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about innovation is you can innovate faster than regulators can regulate,

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so you can always get these all these get these

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scammers that are pushing the latest technology that haven't been

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regulated or or ruled on. And you know, it's just

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a different version of the same story over and over all,

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these different rug pulls, empty promises, hype, speculation, gambling. So yeah,

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gotta be careful out there.

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Speaker 2: People have got a gamble, you know.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think I think the the attractiveness of gambling

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comes from the difficulty in just living an honest life.

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If you if you if you go to work, you

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work hard, you know, forty hours a week, try to

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provide for your family. That isn't really cutting it, you know,

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for a lot of people, for like you know, the

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average average blue collar worker. For some reason. We know

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the reason, it's the monetary system. That path isn't working.

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So a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't be gambed,

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they become gamblers because because the ability to save has

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been taken away from them by their governments and by

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the monetary system. So part of the reason I love gold,

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silver and bitcoin, and by the way, that's the entirety

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of my portfolio. Goldsilver and bitcoin is because they're just

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three versions of money and you can just hold them

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and then I don't feel like I need to take risks.

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I don't feel like I need to be in the

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stock market or real estate or all these exotic cryptos.

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I don't have to take those risks. I don't have

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to gamble, I don't have to go to the casino.

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I don't have to do sports betting. I don't have

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to do that stuff. I can just save my way

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to an increasing portfolio and perhaps retire like that.

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Speaker 2: We'll see.

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Speaker 4: Hey, it's an amazing thing to watch an incredible world take. So, Ellen,

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we find you at goldsilver dot com. That's the place,

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goldsilver dot com. Yes, or our Goldsilver YouTube channel. All right,

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excellent links in the show notes, this interview on Financial

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Survival Network dot com. And while you're there, we just

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asked you please sign up for your free newsletter, like

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over sixty thousand other FSN members have done.

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Speaker 2: Alan, We'll talk to you again soon.

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Speaker 4: Merry Christmas, Happy healthy New Year, and hopefully well, one

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thing I can.

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Speaker 2: Guarantee you about twenty twenty five. It's not going to

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be boring. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me, Carrie take care.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network, your

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solution to today's trying times. For the latest, go to

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Financial Survivalnetwork dot com. Financial Survival Network now more than ever,