WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:13.720 Special Operations, Cobert Ops Espionage, The Team House with your 2 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.920 hosts Jack Murphy and David Park. 3 00:00:23.239 --> 00:00:25.879 Hey, everyone, welcome to episode one and seventy three of 4 00:00:25.920 --> 00:00:28.359 The Team House. I'm Jack Murphy here with Dave Park. 5 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:32.000 Our guest tonight on the show is Chad McCoy. Chad 6 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:36.719 spent his entire career really in Air Force Special Operations 7 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:40.240 with twenty fourth Special Tactics Squadron served as a PJ 8 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:44.840 para rescue men. And we're really excited and happy to 9 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:46.399 have you here in our studio tonight. 10 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:49.200 Man find out here. We really appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks, 11 00:00:49.280 --> 00:00:52.920 I think you stabbed today, so I'm healthy and happy. 12 00:00:53.039 --> 00:00:54.600 It's the rocks out here that'll get you. 13 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:56.759 Yeah. 14 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:02.000 Yeah, So, uh, I mean word again, I mean we 15 00:01:02.119 --> 00:01:04.439 kind of like, uh shot the ship a little bit 16 00:01:04.439 --> 00:01:09.040 before we started the show. And I mean your biography 17 00:01:09.079 --> 00:01:12.120 and career, I suspect is too extensive to even fit 18 00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:13.840 in one interview, but we'll try to. 19 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:16.200 Hit some of the highlights. Some of the highlights, yeah, 20 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:16.760 and talk. 21 00:01:17.079 --> 00:01:19.480 Hit some of the things you'd really like to get into. 22 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:23.840 I'd really like to hear first off, you know, sort 23 00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:27.439 of what your path was, you know, growing up as 24 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:29.359 a kid and what like sort of took you towards 25 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:29.920 the air force? 26 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:31.239 What was your origin story? 27 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:35.719 The superhero your you know, so you talk to a 28 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:39.040 lot of kids of our generation, right, and we grew 29 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:44.239 up playing the woods, you know, sticks as guns, wearing camouflage, 30 00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:46.280 going to armonies, serve for the stores, and buying where 31 00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:49.879 we could, you know, canteens a waste. That was the 32 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:55.519 the culture, that was what we were enamored by. I 33 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:58.640 was exactly the same way, you know, my brother and 34 00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:00.840 I were in the woods you make, and forests and 35 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:05.000 throwing pinklaan grenades, you know. And so, uh, you're also 36 00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:09.439 an amorurby movies, you know, and so you know the 37 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:12.560 movies that were kind of formative for me were you know, 38 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:14.520 the same as everyone else you look at like I 39 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:17.599 want to be Rambo, right and uh and probably a 40 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:20.240 lot of Navy seals became Navy seals because of the movie. 41 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.000 You know, it was awesome, and so we kind of 42 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:26.280 had a culture there for a while that was kind 43 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:30.759 of glamorizing the military experience and specifically the special operations experience. 44 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:34.599 And so all I wanted in my life was to 45 00:02:34.719 --> 00:02:38.759 wear all you know, ballaclava, hav An MP five in 46 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:41.319 a flight suit. That's all about rappel through skylights all 47 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:44.479 I want in life. And you know, once I got 48 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:48.159 the balaklava, it wasn't very comfortable, and MP five wasn't 49 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:49.680 very you know effective. 50 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:51.080 Them is hot as hell. 51 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:54.000 Yeah, yeah, but but you know, that was what I 52 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:57.280 was aspiring to be as a young man. And you know, 53 00:02:57.319 --> 00:03:00.400 I had a normal, you know, semi normal childhood. But 54 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:04.560 as I grew up, I don't want to join the military. 55 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:07.759 And I was probably, you know, seventeen years old. I 56 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:09.599 was in Hawaii. It was a surfer. It was you know, 57 00:03:10.039 --> 00:03:13.280 you know, some punk kid in Hawaii, skateboarder, surfer. And 58 00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:18.039 I was enamored by special operations. And this is before 59 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:20.479 the war, right, this is before nine eleven, So I 60 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:22.840 had no context what war was. I didn't know how 61 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:25.120 real it could be. I just knew it was kind 62 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:29.960 of sexy, right and so and pair rescue was one 63 00:03:29.960 --> 00:03:33.479 of the few jobs in the military that was always 64 00:03:33.599 --> 00:03:37.719 kind of employed, right, you know, regardless of war not. 65 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:40.520 They were rescuing people outside of the mountains, they were 66 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:43.280 jumping in the middle of the ocean. They were badasses 67 00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:46.159 to begin with, and you know, icing on the cake 68 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:47.800 was maybe if a war kicks off, I can go 69 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:51.800 do that stuff too. But but it was this like nineties, right, 70 00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:55.240 and so you know that was kind of leading up 71 00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:57.000 into me going to the military. So not to get 72 00:03:57.039 --> 00:03:58.439 ahead of it, but you know that was kind of 73 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:01.439 the genesis of it. Was I wanted to do something 74 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:06.280 exciting and cool and and recruiters are you know listening 75 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:08.919 to this? Is that the things ours was enamored by 76 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:11.120 was you know, guys putting their kid out there and 77 00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:14.919 showing me scuba tanks and you know, guns and you know, motorcycles, 78 00:04:14.960 --> 00:04:17.000 Like that's what That's the life I want, you know, 79 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:19.879 and you can get it in a number of different ways. 80 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:22.040 You know, you can go be a ranger and do 81 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:23.959 all the same things. You can go be a seal, 82 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:27.079 you can be in Green beret. You know, no one 83 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.639 really has really cornered the market on the coolness. They 84 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:33.279 all have it. It's just you know, how accessible is it. 85 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:36.000 And and per rescue was the quickest way just to 86 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:37.800 be canning with you was the quickest way to get 87 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:40.439 all those things grafted the bad Yeah, and it sounds cheat, 88 00:04:40.519 --> 00:04:43.920 It sounds like cheating, but you know, it was truly. 89 00:04:45.000 --> 00:04:46.920 I can go to scuba school, I can go to 90 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:48.720 you know, I went to Key Wes, you know, special 91 00:04:48.759 --> 00:04:52.360 Forces Combat High School as an eighteen year old. You 92 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:54.639 don't get that in the army, right, You're a senior guy. 93 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:57.959 You've cut your teeth, you proved yourself, and you actually 94 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:01.920 want to do that crap. And I knew I could 95 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:04.240 get those things off the bat. Went the free Fall 96 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:06.759 School as a you know, eighteen. I turned nineteen at 97 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:11.360 Freefoll School, and so that's not normal. Maybe it's normal today, 98 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:13.639 you know, it's more accessible today, but back in the day, 99 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:16.920 it wasn't. And so that was the path I chose. 100 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:20.040 Yeah, that was one of the big things, especially pre 101 00:05:20.199 --> 00:05:24.600 g Watt is that CCT and Para Rescue. They had 102 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:27.319 that pipeline line. It was stacked, it was lined up, 103 00:05:27.319 --> 00:05:27.720 and it was. 104 00:05:27.639 --> 00:05:30.800 The envy schools. It was the envy of every other 105 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:31.519 special operation. 106 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:33.920 It was still contentious, you know when I went for 107 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:37.279 sure around two thousand and eight or two thousand. 108 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:40.160 And nine, because you know, you guys have a pipeline 109 00:05:40.199 --> 00:05:40.600 right in there. 110 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.040 I mean to have an entire Special Forces team MFF 111 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:44.920 team qualified. 112 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:46.560 It's pretty difficult to do. 113 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:48.800 It's not easy to get those slots, but yeah, I 114 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:50.600 can definitely see why it's appealing to it. 115 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:52.759 No, so I felt that. I felt that as a 116 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:55.480 young guy going through school school with zero batters on 117 00:05:55.480 --> 00:05:58.240 my chest. Right, maybe I was an e too, and 118 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:02.720 my I was dive team number two in Scooba school. 119 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:04.399 It's a big deal, right in one and two and three. 120 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:09.560 And you know the guy that I was, my my partner, 121 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:13.000 was a crusty like you know, Special Forces E seven 122 00:06:14.040 --> 00:06:16.000 And I'm a namur by this guy, right, I'm like, 123 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:18.879 he's he's legit. I am nothing. I'm a punk that 124 00:06:18.959 --> 00:06:20.879 was in high school last year and here I'm going 125 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:23.480 to Special Forces scuba school and I don't deserve to 126 00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:26.040 be there. And they reminded us that every day. You know, 127 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:29.240 Airport fuge, you know, and air Force got a bad 128 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:30.959 rap because you know, we go in there and we 129 00:06:31.079 --> 00:06:34.240 smoke these things. But it was because our selection was good, 130 00:06:34.360 --> 00:06:37.120 and so you had like really talented guys at the 131 00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.959 top of the food chain going through these courses and 132 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:43.959 they crushed them, you know. And but we were a 133 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:45.959 bunch of pricks, you know, we were young guys, we 134 00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:49.439 were you know, arrogant and uh but yeah, for sure, 135 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:51.680 we probably deserved everything we get. You know, we had, 136 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:52.920 so you're. 137 00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:55.199 You're basically seals but with the ability to back it up. 138 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.759 No, man, that's a joke. It's a joke. I went 139 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:01.519 through I went through, uh the eighteen delta course, the 140 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:04.600 true eighteen delta courses soccam with a bunch of Seals 141 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:06.600 and a bunch of eighteen deltas and there was a 142 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:10.240 bunch of pjs back when we're going through there, and 143 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:12.680 you know, you had the Seals around the perif why 144 00:07:12.759 --> 00:07:15.399 they're like, you know, screw these guys, and the eighteen 145 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:17.319 dollars was like, screw all these guys. And here's the 146 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:19.319 Air Force guys going, we just want to get through this. 147 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:19.480 Man. 148 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:21.439 We went back step like this is just the thing 149 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:24.480 for us, you know. But so what year did you 150 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:29.879 go through selection? Uh so, nineteen ninety eight, back when 151 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:33.800 it was hard, last hard course course, last hard course. 152 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:36.199 You know, I was thinking about the other day. We 153 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:38.800 say that about stuff, and we I think we kind 154 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:40.680 of believe it, right because I kind of believe that 155 00:07:40.759 --> 00:07:43.279 it was harder back then. I don't know if that's 156 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.959 true or not, you know, we'll kind of go through 157 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.000 the progression of my career. But like I ended up 158 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:53.120 running selection training at the unit, and the guys we 159 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:57.000 were bringing on were better than us. They were. Was 160 00:07:57.040 --> 00:08:00.199 it harder, maybe not, but were they better? Yes? We 161 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:02.319 were better at selection. We're better at selecting the right people. 162 00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.560 And so it's kind of funny to look back and think, 163 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:08.000 like back in the day, it was like who is 164 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:10.000 the hardest? And you could just get through hard things? 165 00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:13.199 But does that make the best operator? It doesn't. It 166 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:15.399 makes a guy that's really good at carrying heavy things, right, 167 00:08:16.480 --> 00:08:18.480 And here I was trying to blend in with those 168 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:21.439 those hardcore guys you know, and you know, fake it 169 00:08:21.519 --> 00:08:24.839 till I make it. But but yeah, so a lot 170 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:26.040 of growth through the process. 171 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:30.319 So for the people who don't know anything about Air 172 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:32.840 Force Special Operations, can you sort of give us the 173 00:08:32.919 --> 00:08:35.480 lay And it's changed over time too, I guess, but 174 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:37.480 can you give us the way out of what it 175 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:39.600 was when you were there and what it's become now. 176 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.320 I'll give you a better history lesson. I'll try to. 177 00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:44.080 You know, someone will fact check me on it. But 178 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:48.080 you know, so PJS grew out of kind of necessity 179 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:54.559 in Korea, jumping in, jumping in docks behind me lines 180 00:08:54.600 --> 00:08:57.759 and moving people out kind of like the hard way, right, 181 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:02.360 and so there were you know, I guess, you know, 182 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:04.320 kind of a crew way to put it, just guys 183 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:06.000 with big balls that would jump out of airplanes and 184 00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:09.639 do hard stuff and so willing to risk their lives 185 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:12.000 for others. And so that was kind of the genesis 186 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:16.279 of this. And so Vietnam kind of was the galvanizing 187 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:19.639 kind of environment for pjs, and they just did hard 188 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:21.480 stuff all the time. Man like you guys are in 189 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:23.679 a tick, you know, a bunch of SF dudes or 190 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:25.960 conventional you know, army guys. They were gonna the guys 191 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.600 are gonna go to the hoist under fire and try 192 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:32.320 to take out their casualties. And you know, Vietnam's you know, 193 00:09:32.440 --> 00:09:34.559 was a good, you know, kind of litmus test for 194 00:09:34.759 --> 00:09:37.600 you know, being a speck ops guy. You know, the Seals, 195 00:09:37.679 --> 00:09:39.679 Green Berets, they all cut their teeth there, right, And 196 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:43.120 so here pj's were. They were one offs. You know, 197 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:46.440 they're these guys that just were kind of uh, you know, 198 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:48.600 kind of the rebels of the Air Force for sure, 199 00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:54.080 but their job morphed into protecting aircrew, and so it 200 00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:59.240 became this kind of safety net for for aviators. So 201 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:02.879 I'm gonna fifteen pile I'm flying. And here's a really 202 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:06.200 good example is you know the Gulf War, you punch out, 203 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:09.879 a PG is coming to get you, right, and you 204 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:12.960 know he's going to come with an armada. Not only 205 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:17.080 Hilicotter's a tens flying with him, and so it's it's 206 00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:19.440 a legit package come with him. So pj's morphed over 207 00:10:19.480 --> 00:10:22.360 the years and then the g what happened, and then 208 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:24.639 it was the chance for pj's to say, hey, man, like, 209 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:25.960 what do we want to be when we grew up? 210 00:10:26.279 --> 00:10:29.320 Because this is no kidding the test and so that's 211 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.399 going to have the conversation, Oh it's great. 212 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:36.639 Yeah, we're we're did I read somewhere that a lot 213 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:39.840 of the the pjas the power rest uman in Vietnam 214 00:10:40.120 --> 00:10:42.679 were they former Did they draw on the smoke jumpers? 215 00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:45.440 Is that or am I just making that I've never 216 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:46.240 heard that before movie. 217 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:49.159 I mean, I think that the CIA drew on some 218 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:50.840 of those guys for some of their ops in like 219 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:53.639 Laus during the Vietnam conflict, But. 220 00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:55.320 I think a lot of them woul kind of just 221 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:57.159 floated back and forth. There was a lot of that 222 00:10:57.200 --> 00:10:59.639 going on. Was like hey man, yeah you can do 223 00:10:59.679 --> 00:11:00.639 where it's up, Okay, let's go. 224 00:11:01.679 --> 00:11:03.360 Yeah, a lot of like sheep dipping back then. 225 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:08.240 Yeah, and the but the larger picture of Air Force 226 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:12.039 Special Operations also includes there's j tax, there's CCTs. 227 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:14.360 Okay, tell folks out there a little bit about how 228 00:11:14.399 --> 00:11:14.720 that works. 229 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:16.840 Everyone knows. I got a lot of love for the CCTs, 230 00:11:17.080 --> 00:11:20.519 and so at the twenty fourth stso CTS and pj's. 231 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:24.279 The Air Force is terrible at branding, so we have 232 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:26.600 a lot of acronyms. You have also have tag pece, right, 233 00:11:27.120 --> 00:11:29.559 and so as ranges you guys at attack pees conventional 234 00:11:29.559 --> 00:11:32.159 forces get tack pece. But there's also soft tag piece 235 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:34.759 and so we have those. They're great, They're excellent, they're 236 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:39.279 excellent j tax. But CCTs were initially designed to do 237 00:11:39.559 --> 00:11:43.559 kind of austere ATCs air traffic control basically stand up 238 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:46.600 a remote site and bring air aircraft in like out 239 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:48.960 of their rucksack. Yeah, remote airfield. So well, you look 240 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:51.320 at Desert one, right, there were the guys bringing in 241 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.600 those aircraft and that was kind of the genesis of it. 242 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:56.879 But then it became okay, there's a necessity to have 243 00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:59.360 these guys call close air support and can they do 244 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:02.000 it really well? A high level absolutely can, And so 245 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:04.679 they kind of repurpose them. And so over the past, 246 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:06.799 you know, over the past twenty years, they repurpose them 247 00:12:06.799 --> 00:12:10.279 to be excellent j tax and you know, they're just 248 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:12.559 badass dudes. They could get the job done. They could 249 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:15.600 bring in you know, your your infil Xville, but also 250 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:18.440 called casts, you know, manage ir and so kind of 251 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:20.759 jack of all trades as well, you know, and so, 252 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:25.440 and then you got pjs who traditionally come from the 253 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:28.440 rescue side. So you have rescue the air force, and 254 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:31.799 their their job is to rescue pilots, that's it. And 255 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:34.279 so they do it and they're they're the best at it, 256 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:37.080 you know. They you know, come in helicopters, they jump 257 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.759 out of airplanes, they do the NASA mission, I mean, 258 00:12:39.879 --> 00:12:43.360 they do the rescues off McKinley. I mean, they're everything, right. 259 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:46.879 But then within soft you take those pjs and you say, 260 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:50.000 how do we purpose these guys to support ground forces 261 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:53.799 more effectively? And so in the early days, Desert one 262 00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.039 is a good example when you start building up jsock. 263 00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:58.480 They realize that, hey, man, we can use pjs and 264 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:02.480 be these kind of these this enabling force that protects 265 00:13:02.480 --> 00:13:07.080 our guys and provides confidence to ground force commanders to say, man, like, 266 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:08.720 if anything happens, that you guys are gonna do it. 267 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:12.720 And a good example that is black Hawk Down. You know, 268 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:16.039 we had pjs there that went down and and guys 269 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:21.039 I had the the man It's it's hard to put 270 00:13:21.039 --> 00:13:22.720 this into words, but like when I was a young man, 271 00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:24.879 I looked at you know, these magazines and I saw 272 00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:27.480 guys like Tim Wilkinson and Scottie Fails, and I was 273 00:13:27.639 --> 00:13:29.600 enamored by them. And then I got to meet them 274 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:32.840 in person and and and then become have a relationship 275 00:13:32.879 --> 00:13:34.879 with them. That's so cool, which was amazing to me, 276 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:37.320 And it probably wasn't amazing to them because I'm a nobody, right, 277 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:39.720 but like for me, it was a big deal. And so, 278 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.559 but those are the guys that put themselves in harm's way. 279 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:45.000 They're kind of the lesser known portion of black Hawk 280 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:49.399 Down in the story of uh, you know, Gothic Serpent. 281 00:13:49.480 --> 00:13:52.679 But they, you know, they risk their lives to save 282 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:55.039 others and cut those guys with those helicopters, and so 283 00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:59.120 you know, then the the Assault Force understood, holy crap, 284 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.559 these guys are really good this. We can use them 285 00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:03.600 on the maritime missions, we can use them on these 286 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:08.720 helo soft forces, and so they became kind of a necessity, 287 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:12.159 you know, over time. Yeah, and correct. 288 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.120 Me if I'm wrong anytime I say something dumb here, 289 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:18.399 But twenty fourth STS is the unit that encompasses some 290 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:23.840 of these different personnel and capabilities. Unlike you know, maybe 291 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:25.679 some of the other soft units does this do they 292 00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:28.159 act as like the force Provider and they shoot off 293 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:31.000 these attachments to seals, rangers or their missions. 294 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:34.399 They do yeah, yes and no. So they do both, right. 295 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:37.759 And so in the early days of Iraq and Afghanistan, 296 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.000 we were basically running combat certain rescue for the task 297 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:43.879 force and so I was a team layer for those 298 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:46.600 you know, those those task forces, and my job was 299 00:14:46.639 --> 00:14:49.759 to protect a certain region of Iraq. And so, you know, 300 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.080 when you had halfs going all night, you know a 301 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:53.960 lot of a lot of helos flying back in the day, 302 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:57.559 and the one sixtieth was very, very busy. They were 303 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.440 getting on more on anybody, and my job was to 304 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:02.919 protect those guys, not on the aircrew, but everyone else 305 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:04.720 is on those you know those uh you know those 306 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:08.360 infill and x fil you know birds, and so you know, 307 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:11.240 that was a primary mission of our unit. And then 308 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:13.799 on top of that, we would basically adule pj's and 309 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:17.279 controllers out to the Army and Navy and so, and 310 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:19.759 that's where it gets kind of exciting, right because everyone 311 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:21.440 wants to be part of that. You touch that magic, 312 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:23.799 and there's a lot of magic there, right. And so 313 00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:28.559 you know pj's controllers. You know, it sounds like pejorative, 314 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:31.000 but they were commodities for a while. And so and 315 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:33.360 that's not a bad thing to me because you're on 316 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:36.480 the best missions and you're with the best operators, and 317 00:15:36.519 --> 00:15:38.840 so my job is to be the best PJ with 318 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:42.399 them and protect them and save their lives and uh 319 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:45.200 and think ahead of problems as they happen. And so 320 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.320 and the comic controller is running. I mean he's the 321 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:50.919 busiest guy on the target. Yeah, you know what I mean. 322 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.919 He's got multiple radios going multiple aircraft. Maybe he's calling casts, 323 00:15:54.919 --> 00:15:57.440 maybe he's calling you know a black HLC to ring. 324 00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:01.320 You know, casually is out and the has a cool 325 00:16:01.399 --> 00:16:03.720 job because if no one gets hurt, you got a 326 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:06.120 pretty sweet gig man because you're running down on the 327 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.759 best of them, and then when someone gets hurt, you 328 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:13.480 refocus man, and that's your your primary task. And so 329 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:15.960 so yeah, it's it's a it's a different, different gig man. 330 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:18.200 So with the Air Force. 331 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:21.120 With we'll talk about periscue because I don't know about CCT, 332 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:24.679 but it's has sort of that seal structure. 333 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:25.919 Right, there's the white side. 334 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:32.399 Uh, Para rescue who before GAT were the busiest special 335 00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:36.360 operations folks were. They're doing mountain rescues in Alaska. Yeah, 336 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:40.919 they're doing the mountain rescue. They're doing incredibly heroic stuff 337 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:44.879 out at sea like they had a real job all 338 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:45.200 the time. 339 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:46.120 Even the guard bums. 340 00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:49.320 Yeah, the perfect storm man. Yeah, and Long Island. You know, guys, 341 00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:53.639 the guys in Alaska are the biggest badass pj's right, 342 00:16:53.679 --> 00:16:55.720 because they're the guys that are going to jump into 343 00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:58.360 a remote DZ and rescue somebody and like overland for 344 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.039 three days and you probably killed bears with a bear hands. 345 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:02.720 I don't know, a couple a couple of them, I 346 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:04.799 think just last year did a free fall jump in 347 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:07.400 Alaska to go rescue some a dude that straded out 348 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:08.960 there and jump right out into the snow drifts. 349 00:17:09.000 --> 00:17:11.319 They do a lot, they do a lot, and the 350 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.640 guys here in Long Island do a lot of jump 351 00:17:13.680 --> 00:17:16.839 missions out to see you know a lot of the 352 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:20.160 you know, merchant vessels that they call for help. These 353 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:23.119 guys will hang. They literally risked their lives for others. 354 00:17:23.720 --> 00:17:26.240 And so when I joined, that's what I joined to do, 355 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.039 and I was hoping that the combat side of it 356 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:33.680 would come eventually. And you know, so I I was 357 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:35.880 first stationed. I think you guys want to talk about 358 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.119 selection a little bit, but I was first stationed in 359 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:42.440 Las Vegas, and we went out to Northern Watch, which 360 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:44.839 is uh, you had Northern Watch and Southern Watch, and 361 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:47.400 basically it was a bracket around Iraq for no fly 362 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:50.359 zone and so our job Northern Watch in Turkey was 363 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:53.400 to protect those fighters that were forcing that. And so 364 00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:55.880 in my mind, I was in combat, right, I'm in 365 00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:57.440 full kid. I got all these magazine I had so 366 00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:01.519 many magazines. They had under rounds on me. I don't know, man, 367 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:06.400 but you know I was. I thought I was John 368 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.799 Rambo and I was going to go save anyone who 369 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:11.680 needed me right, But the fact is that you're just 370 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:15.599 a safety net and you know, we hadn't really started yet, 371 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:20.920 and so you know, it's kind of an interesting kind 372 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:24.920 of transition to what the GAT became because I didn't 373 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.160 have any experience, you know what I mean, I wasn't nobody, 374 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:30.640 and so yeah, it's interesting. Man. 375 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:35.039 So with so, and I don't I don't mean any 376 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:38.000 sort of disparagement when I call everybody not in the 377 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:40.240 twenty fourth like the Vanilla side or you know, like 378 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:45.759 Vanilla pjs, But what is their wartime mission as opposed 379 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:47.240 to the twenty fourth. 380 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:49.960 Yeah, so they've got a great mission, man. So there, 381 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:53.039 you know, they have dedicated assets. You have h A 382 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:56.480 sixties h hh being the Air Force variant of rescue, right, 383 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:01.519 you have dedicated SE one thirties, you know, HC one thirties. 384 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:06.240 You have basically these task forces deploy to become stand up, 385 00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.400 turnkey rescue recovery. And so you know, for the past 386 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:13.400 twenty years they've been everywhere, you know, they've been co 387 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:16.119 located with US, and so my job would be protect 388 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:18.599 task force assets. Those would be to convention, you know, 389 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:21.799 protect everybody, right, And so if it didn't fall under 390 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:24.079 our purview, they would be the ones that take care 391 00:19:24.119 --> 00:19:28.279 of it. And so it's not necessarily like I'm better 392 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:31.240 than you. It's a different mission. And so you know, 393 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:33.920 you know, we we use the term you know, White 394 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:38.519 Side for you know, kind of conventional soft where Seft's 395 00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:40.680 not conventional. But you know that's the term we use. 396 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:43.640 But they did a lot of great things, and especially 397 00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:45.839 in Afghanistan, you know, they did a lot of rescues, 398 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:50.079 a lot of notoriety with you know, special Forces teams 399 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:53.240 that they came in and save. But when you talk 400 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:54.880 about you know, kind of the tip of the spear, 401 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:58.640 when you kind of neck it down to mission, it 402 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:01.319 becomes a little bit more exclusive, right, and so it's 403 00:20:01.319 --> 00:20:06.079 a smaller club of people, and you know that's by design. 404 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.240 You know, there's a different selection process, which I'm sure 405 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:13.279 we'll talk about, different training, and also different understanding of 406 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:17.400 assets available. And that's usually the differentiator between White Side 407 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:21.960 and Tier one, right, it's assets. You know, operators. You know, 408 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:23.640 you can teach a guy to shoot really well and 409 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:25.799 do all these things, but what assets do you have 410 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:29.519 available to you? And so when you have dedicated casts 411 00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:33.640 every every target, you have a one thirty every single night, 412 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:36.079 which people don't have and and I'm used to that. 413 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:37.319 I'm like, we don't have ac went there. How we 414 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:39.119 gonna go out right? And how do we do this 415 00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:42.720 because you know what we're gonna tick, you know and comment. 416 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:44.720 You know, White Side guys are like, yeah, man, we'll 417 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:47.680 just fight through it, and you know Tier one guys like, well, 418 00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:50.599 we got to just drop it and we'll move on, right. 419 00:20:51.240 --> 00:20:57.160 But yeah, that's that's already strike exactly. So tell us 420 00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:01.960 about like, did you did anybody warn you what selection 421 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:04.319 was gonna be, did you work up, did you train 422 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:04.839 for it? 423 00:21:05.279 --> 00:21:06.799 And what did you think when you got there? 424 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.079 Yeah, So it's it's kind of funny. I'm my own 425 00:21:11.119 --> 00:21:14.960 worst enemy. Everybody knows me, knows that. And when nine 426 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:17.839 eleven happened, I was in the I was in Okinawa. 427 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:20.400 I was actually with a good buddy of mine. We 428 00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:22.200 had a we're having a typhoon party. It's what you 429 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:25.119 do in Okinawa when you have typhoons. And my buddy, 430 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.160 Nick mccaskell is a good friend of mine. He was 431 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:29.839 like a E five at the time and I was 432 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.559 a E four. His family was on the mainland and 433 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.279 invited me over. We're gonna have a typhoon party. And 434 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:38.880 so we're drinking these things called white dogs. It's like 435 00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:43.599 like Koreean yogurt and like soju, and we're tearing it up, man, 436 00:21:43.680 --> 00:21:45.880 just the two of us. You know, no purpose, just 437 00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:48.519 that's what you do, right, And we watched the world 438 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:52.039 Trades that happen wow and together, and remember sitting on 439 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:54.799 the couch watching it. I'm like and I'm trying to 440 00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:56.720 rationalize it. I'm like, oh, I must be beacons and 441 00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.279 the towers and I'm like trying to make sense of it. 442 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:01.440 And then you start see more and more like holy crap. 443 00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:05.599 And then he starts getting all these phone calls and 444 00:22:06.000 --> 00:22:08.599 I didn't. So I was at a rescue squadron and 445 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.640 he was at a special tactic squadron in Okanawa, and 446 00:22:11.680 --> 00:22:14.920 I'm like, you're getting calls. I'm getting calls like you 447 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:17.839 guys don't want me. And here I was this, you know, 448 00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:21.559 I thought I was this pipeiting guy, and when nine 449 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:23.680 to eleven happened, I assumed i'd be a part of 450 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:26.200 whatever the response was. And I was in the Pacific 451 00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:30.960 and I wasn't. And we started doing oh yeah, Philippines, 452 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.799 which was a thing okay, And we had a U 453 00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:38.079 A forty seven out there that crash, Yes. 454 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:40.160 I remember it was a one sixtieth bird went down. 455 00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.880 I had, you know, a couple of friends on there, 456 00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:47.839 One Riddell and Bill McDaniel. Bill McDaniel was a teammate 457 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:50.359 of mine in Vegas, and uh, it was a big 458 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:52.960 moment for us, right because it was I was the 459 00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:55.079 young guy. I never dealt with tragedy, right, and I 460 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:57.119 was like, holy shit, these guys are dead and h 461 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:00.000 Then they said, hey, when did you guys go to field? 462 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:01.640 And I'm like, I'm in and I'm going to war, 463 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:04.160 you know again probably you know six hundred magazine. I 464 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:06.400 don't know whatever it had on me. And we go 465 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:08.279 out there and we think we're going to war, and 466 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:11.640 it was this kind of like posture and it was like, Okay, 467 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:13.359 there's things going on here, but we don't know what 468 00:23:13.400 --> 00:23:15.559 you guys can do. How do you contribute to that? 469 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:19.559 And so it was really frustrating for me as a 470 00:23:19.599 --> 00:23:22.200 young guy because I started reading Stars of Stripes when 471 00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:24.720 nine eleven happened, and I started, you know, reading about 472 00:23:24.759 --> 00:23:27.640 these SF guys they're going with like, you know, shooting 473 00:23:27.640 --> 00:23:31.039 forty millimeterre of the mountains and getting these ticks and 474 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.240 pulling back, and I'm like, that's what I signed up 475 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:38.680 to do. And I'm in the Pacific, and so I 476 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:40.839 did a you know, I was stuck out there. I 477 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.640 was stuck. I was PCs out there. I had a 478 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:45.839 you know, another at a commitment for another year, and 479 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:49.759 I was miserable and ended up getting an ulcer. Like 480 00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:51.519 I end up getting ulcer as a you know, twenty 481 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:53.960 twenty year old or twenty whatever whatever it was. 482 00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:55.279 Do you think you were going to miss it? 483 00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:57.279 I was just I just want to be a part 484 00:23:57.279 --> 00:23:59.160 of it. Yeah, And I was like, this is the war. 485 00:23:59.359 --> 00:24:02.039 This is I mean, and war is romantic, you know, 486 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.640 to a young guy who was playing war in the woods. 487 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:06.480 I wanted to test my metal. I wanted to see 488 00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:11.519 what I was worth. And so there was only one 489 00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:15.279 way to get there, right, I could roll the dice 490 00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:18.000 and PCs and hopefully go to a unit that was deploying, 491 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.400 where I could get out and go contract to Blackwater, 492 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:23.880 right because black Ward was the thing back then. Or 493 00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:25.759 I could go to twenty fourth Sts, which I knew 494 00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:27.240 was going to deploy. You knew you were going to 495 00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:30.279 war if you went there. The problem was I wasn't nobody. 496 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:33.279 I had no experience. I was a young guy. I 497 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:36.039 had nothing to give them. And traditionally the twenty fourth 498 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:38.119 sts was taken like, you know, guys in their thirties, 499 00:24:38.119 --> 00:24:40.559 they were the best of the best. And here I was. 500 00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:43.160 I was barely twenty one. I was like twenty two, 501 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:46.000 I think at the time. And so I put in 502 00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:50.640 a package and they're at war already, and I put 503 00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.559 in this package and I was up in Alaska. Actually 504 00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:55.799 I was doing some rescue stuff with the Alaska guys 505 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:59.119 for a month. It was great. And I flew from 506 00:24:59.160 --> 00:25:02.880 Alaska to Fort Bragg to do selection by myself as 507 00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:05.720 a nobody, and you know, do you like do a 508 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:09.839 PT test? And actually a funny story, uh PT test. 509 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:13.839 So I'm I'm super nervous, like I'm an like I 510 00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:15.960 got no shot coming up here. They're not gonna pick me. 511 00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:18.079 And so I wake up with three in the morning. 512 00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:20.720 Got a pttest, I think at five, wake up with three. 513 00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:23.640 I'm stretching, like doing random stretches before HP was a thing. 514 00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.880 I'm like like touching my toes and I'm like I 515 00:25:26.920 --> 00:25:28.519 need to take some multi items because that'll make me 516 00:25:28.599 --> 00:25:33.400 run faster, right, figure some gatorade. I'm doing everything wrong. 517 00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:36.960 And I show up at five and this multi vedom 518 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:39.319 in my stomach is I have no food in my stomach. 519 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.680 And I know that I know better now, but you know, 520 00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:44.119 you have to do this three miun to running and 521 00:25:44.160 --> 00:25:46.559 it's like show what you got. And so the chief 522 00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:48.440 that was there was this runner. He was like a 523 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:50.119 marathon guy. He's like, do you mind if I run 524 00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:52.079 with you? What I'm gonna say no? So, of course, 525 00:25:52.839 --> 00:25:55.200 so he's running with me and I'm running. He's talking 526 00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:57.000 to me the whole time. I'm like, I'm trying to 527 00:25:57.079 --> 00:25:59.359 run a six minute mile, which is hard for me, 528 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.559 and he's talking to me, and my stomach's turning and 529 00:26:03.599 --> 00:26:05.680 I got to vomit, but I'm not going to stop. 530 00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:08.200 So I keep running and start vomiting on myself and 531 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:09.759 I'm puking on myself and he keeps talking to me. 532 00:26:09.799 --> 00:26:12.559 I'm like talking to him puking and I puked three 533 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:14.519 times on this run. And I run, I get a 534 00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:17.440 good time, and he's just like this kid's crazy, right, 535 00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:19.480 And so I go to the other events do all 536 00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:21.599 this other stuff, and then I go through this board, 537 00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:23.759 and the board just gets you in the door to 538 00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.640 go to the further kind of next selection. And they 539 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:28.319 used to call the murder boards back in the day, 540 00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:31.079 and they were not friendly. It was everybody. It was 541 00:26:31.079 --> 00:26:33.400 all it's in uniform. I'm in uniform, and they just 542 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.920 trash you. They rip you apart. And again, I'm a nobody, right, 543 00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:39.039 I'm a twenty something, the kid who's never done anything 544 00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:42.039 in my life. And I come in there and they're like, 545 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:44.480 first of all, we never see anybody vomit on themselves 546 00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:46.319 on this run the whole time. That's kind of weird. 547 00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:48.440 Like I get it, kid, Like you want to be 548 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:51.960 here like you do. And I told him I was 549 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:54.480 very honest with him, and I said, listen, guys, and 550 00:26:54.519 --> 00:26:56.480 I wasn't. There's no ego attached to it was no. 551 00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:58.880 Pravado and it's Air Force, so you can't say, guys. 552 00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:04.720 Now, you cant no, I'm smoking a cigar, right, So 553 00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:06.519 I said to him, I said, you know, if you 554 00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:09.119 guys don't take me, I'm probably gonna get out of 555 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:10.359 the military because I'm getting out. 556 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:12.279 Yeah. I had my service commitment was up in like 557 00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:14.160 eight months. I was like, I'm getting out the military 558 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:17.119 and I'll go fight somehow, I'll figure it out. And 559 00:27:17.160 --> 00:27:19.880 they knew how serious, and uh, I said, I just 560 00:27:19.880 --> 00:27:21.240 want to be busy. I just want to fight. I 561 00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:25.039 want to go to war. And they selected me and 562 00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:28.759 so I came. You know. So I ended up going 563 00:27:28.759 --> 00:27:32.119 back to Okinawa and we had it. So I had 564 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:33.720 to do one more deployment. I went to Korea. It 565 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:36.000 was a short diploma, is like thirty five days, forty 566 00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:37.640 five days. And this is what I was telling you 567 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:41.079 about you two crash. Yeah, And so I'm out there. 568 00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:43.440 I wasn't an alert. We didn't fly alert for the 569 00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:46.480 U twos because they're like high high stuff, like very 570 00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:49.559 low probability and shot down, and so we're not alert 571 00:27:49.559 --> 00:27:52.480 for them. And it's like, I forgue, what time was 572 00:27:52.519 --> 00:27:54.920 in the mornings, like seven eight? Maybe I'm hungover, maybe 573 00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:56.839 I'm not. I don't know the holy to it. And 574 00:27:57.359 --> 00:27:59.960 they knock on my door like Chad, hey, you two 575 00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:03.519 just punched. You gotta go rescue this guy. I'm like, 576 00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:06.720 oh yeah, cool, yeah, let's go. And so we went 577 00:28:06.759 --> 00:28:10.400 out there and the you two. This funny story. Has 578 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:13.640 actually met the pilot recently. He lives in my town. 579 00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:18.240 Oh really yeah, awesome story. But he basically limped his 580 00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:22.359 YouTube across the border ejected in the space suit. 581 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:25.359 So he took eighty a fire or something, and it 582 00:28:25.400 --> 00:28:26.119 was he. 583 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:29.160 Had a malfunction one of the interests of that and 584 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:31.960 he punches. He played it cool, and I talked to 585 00:28:32.039 --> 00:28:34.559 him in person about it just recently. He's like, yeah, 586 00:28:34.599 --> 00:28:35.759 you know, like I knew how to get it over. 587 00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:37.839 It was on fire like whatever, you know, real real 588 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:40.279 cool pilot, the old school Air Force pilot, like the 589 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:42.200 guy the kind of guys from like World War two, right, 590 00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:45.759 and he limps it over, crashes his plane to with 591 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:49.799 gas stations as a fire. It's it's a mess. He's 592 00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:52.279 in a space suit, breaks his back. We go down 593 00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:55.400 to him this mudfield, litter him out or put him 594 00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:58.960 in stakes, litter raise him out and rescue him, you know. 595 00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:01.759 And then I behind and like I'm gonna go like 596 00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:04.079 secure this crash site. Don't tell I'm doing No one 597 00:29:04.119 --> 00:29:06.039 taught me how to do this stuff. And I ended 598 00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:08.599 up finding this black box. This recorder is a giant, 599 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:11.440 real recorder that there's two Koreans are pulling out this 600 00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:14.400 apartment complex and I got a gun on you right, 601 00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.680 and I'm like, and Chad now knows I could have 602 00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:20.160 like locked these dudes up and like zip tied them 603 00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:22.240 and like probably took them away because they're probably. 604 00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:24.960 Because of North Korean like classified piece right exactly. 605 00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:26.839 There was a van waiting for it out front. Yeah, 606 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:29.039 holy shit. And so I didn't know how the gravity 607 00:29:29.079 --> 00:29:29.519 this at the time. 608 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:31.160 I'm like a twenty something kid, you know, I'm like, 609 00:29:31.559 --> 00:29:33.880 I'm surprised that the air Force didn't sound like a 610 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:35.920 forced hit it like the Ravens or. 611 00:29:36.039 --> 00:29:43.119 They sent some cops eventually, but uh yeah, so we 612 00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:45.880 we we do this and then you know, I'm like 613 00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:47.720 high five myself. I like that it was kind of cool. 614 00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:49.160 Wait wait wait so did you get the box? 615 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:49.880 Yeah? 616 00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:52.480 Okay, so how did you get it? Did you negotiate? 617 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:53.519 Did you draw down on them? 618 00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:58.279 When I'm like, I'm an American, you're not, And you know, 619 00:29:58.559 --> 00:30:00.599 they probably all both knew Kara. They probably could have 620 00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:03.400 kicked my ass and zaid tight knee, but thank god 621 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:05.279 they didn't. So if you're watching, thank you for like 622 00:30:05.359 --> 00:30:09.000 beating me up. But uh yeah, so we recovered everything. 623 00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:12.400 You know, he comes out fine. It was a big deal, 624 00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:15.960 you know, But I was thinking about the war. All 625 00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:20.000 I wanted to be was in Afghanistan And did. 626 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:22.200 You get did you get a recognition for that? Did 627 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:24.279 you get a medal for securing the Black Box from 628 00:30:24.319 --> 00:30:24.839 the Korean? 629 00:30:25.480 --> 00:30:28.720 Wow? Well there's more to that. It's just kind of 630 00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:31.400 my career. But it's fine. It's a lot of wards, right, 631 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:36.440 but so it just kind of stabbed a little bit. 632 00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.799 Yeah, yeah, we see you go back to twenty fourth 633 00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:40.920 sts and like I did some of the guys, Yeah I. 634 00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:44.759 Did a good thing. Yeah, so you know, you fast 635 00:30:44.799 --> 00:30:46.720 forward a few months and I fly out to Fort 636 00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:49.319 Bragg and then unit's gone. There's no one there. It's 637 00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:51.759 a ghost town and it's a really eerie like thinking 638 00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:53.799 about now, it was crazy to see it was no 639 00:30:53.839 --> 00:30:56.279 one there. There was some admin folks there, but everyone 640 00:30:56.359 --> 00:30:59.839 was Ford. And they said, hey, we don't have enough 641 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.720 to man this C star position in Afghanistan with the 642 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:08.759 Navy supporting, you know, specific squadron. Will you deploy in 643 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:11.720 a week? I'm like hell yes, Like that's all I 644 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:13.680 want to do. And I had no training, So you're 645 00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:15.079 supposed to go through training, right, you have a year 646 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:17.759 of training there, like we're gonna we want you to go. Now. 647 00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:21.119 I'm like, yeah, man, I'm in like, I have no gear, 648 00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:23.880 I have nothing, you know, like we got you. So 649 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:25.920 I go to the arm ring and they got this 650 00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.519 little shorty M four and I never seen one. Now 651 00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:31.039 it's normal, right everything whatever, it's ten in. I never 652 00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:33.559 seen one for like, that's the coolest thing ever. And 653 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:36.039 they had painted it for me. I'm like, dude, I 654 00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:40.559 am bigger, I am, I am varsity I now yeah, 655 00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.319 I can any I can kill anything, like I am 656 00:31:43.400 --> 00:31:47.119 the man, Like this is to your one right now right, 657 00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:50.400 and we got the rain. We sit in and I'm like, dude, 658 00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:52.680 this is everything. It's a culmination of everything I want 659 00:31:52.680 --> 00:31:53.079 in my life. 660 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:53.880 Was it suppressed? 661 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.240 Did you have? Oh yeah, I haven't seen a suppresed. 662 00:31:56.480 --> 00:31:58.960 How does this thing go on? Yeah? Yeah yeah, So 663 00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:01.240 I get that. You know, uniforms had all kit it 664 00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:03.720 out for me, and I'm like, dude, this is insane. 665 00:32:03.759 --> 00:32:05.680 You felt like a professional athlete coming to a team 666 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:09.039 and here's your uniform, right, and so all brand new kit, 667 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:11.680 which is not cool in retrospect. It's not cool to 668 00:32:11.680 --> 00:32:13.720 have brand new kid down range. But I was that 669 00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:15.599 guy all the price tags on and. 670 00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:17.319 Everything trying to not get it dirty. 671 00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:21.079 It's like the hat with like the sticker on the front. Yeah. 672 00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:23.880 So you know, so I go down range to Afghanistan 673 00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:28.759 and I do nothing. I mean, we support all these ops. 674 00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:30.960 It was a part of the task force. I was learning. 675 00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:34.160 I didn't do anything sexy, I didn't do anything hard, 676 00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:37.160 but I was exposed to kind of a new world 677 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:39.480 and I was I was really impressed by the guys 678 00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:43.160 I was with. They're extreme professionals, They're very capable, and 679 00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:45.759 I was a nobody and it was very humbling, right. 680 00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.000 It was like, you know, I thought it was the 681 00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:50.519 man before and now I know I'm not, and I 682 00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:53.519 know I need to grow to this. And so, you know, 683 00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:56.839 that was a pretty formative experience for me. And so 684 00:32:57.759 --> 00:32:59.680 I come back home from that deployment and I start 685 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:01.839 Green Team, right, so Green Team is our selection. 686 00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:05.240 So before we go into Green Team, because that was 687 00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:07.799 the training that you should have done, right, the training 688 00:33:07.839 --> 00:33:09.920 selection that you should have done if you hadn't a 689 00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:14.279 deployed immediately a pair of rescue already has just off 690 00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:14.720 the get go. 691 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:16.799 Is it about a two year Yeah. 692 00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:20.319 Yes, I was about to say the same, I guess, yeah, 693 00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.279 So no, that's Okay, so when you go to pera rescue, 694 00:33:23.319 --> 00:33:26.240 it really is maybe outside of like an eighteen delta. 695 00:33:26.400 --> 00:33:30.200 Well, I mean, do you guys have the longest pipeline? 696 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:32.559 You might, I think I'm not in the competition with 697 00:33:32.599 --> 00:33:34.440 other tiers. I get it. 698 00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:36.200 But like you said, you're getting so many things, You're 699 00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:38.920 getting so many schools that that are all front loaded. 700 00:33:39.319 --> 00:33:42.559 So you do two years two years of training just 701 00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:43.599 to get on the job. 702 00:33:43.759 --> 00:33:46.640 Yes, and you don't know anything when you graduate two years. 703 00:33:46.759 --> 00:33:49.319 That's the sad thing is that. And even now you 704 00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:51.440 go through all this training and you're not capable to 705 00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.640 go deploy if you have top up training to get 706 00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:56.720 to your unit. And so you know there's a there's 707 00:33:56.720 --> 00:34:00.920 a breakdown there. But the pipeline basically is all these 708 00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:04.799 employment schools and basically foundational schools to put it all 709 00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:07.440 together at PJ school to make you a PJ. Right, 710 00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:10.719 and so but before that you go to selection, and 711 00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:13.679 I guess I kind of super glossed over this. It's 712 00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:19.679 pretty important. So our selection used to be it's not 713 00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:21.079 the same. Now it's completely different. 714 00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:24.360 And we're talking about just selection to get into the rescue. 715 00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:26.800 So you used to be PJS and controllers together would 716 00:34:26.800 --> 00:34:29.039 go through selection together. And so you go through basic 717 00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:31.880 training and if you were a guy who had you know, 718 00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:34.440 basically done a past test, which is like a physical 719 00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:37.639 assessment to go Hey, you want to go here? Okay, 720 00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:40.679 you met the basic criteria to go there, you start 721 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:43.239 with a lot of guys. So we started, I mean, 722 00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:46.280 just for easy math, I'll say one hundred people. Maybe 723 00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:48.960 it was like ninety, I don't know whatever. So one 724 00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:50.840 hundred people out of basic training come there and they're 725 00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.400 all eager to be PJS because it's sexy. Right. You 726 00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:57.159 see this guy, he's got blouse, boots, cool bret, he's jacked, 727 00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.320 you know, he's probably taking a ton of rooids, and 728 00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.119 he's briefing you guys, and you're like, I want to 729 00:35:02.119 --> 00:35:04.559 be that guy, right, And here I am, you know, scrawny, 730 00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:07.400 like one hundred and forty five pounds going yeah me man. 731 00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:10.199 So I came in the Air Force to be that guy. Yeah. 732 00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:11.800 I had already made up my mind. So I had 733 00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:13.840 already done the passes before it came in in Hawaii 734 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:17.480 and Honolulu, I did it with a prior controller. I 735 00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:21.000 was committed. And so the stakes are high, right, because 736 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:22.920 you come in and a lot of guys don't make it. 737 00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:24.960 Most of them don't make it, and so you're come 738 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:27.360 to be a PJ. You're probably gonna be, you know whatever, 739 00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:31.079 a load master or a cop or something. My motivation 740 00:35:31.280 --> 00:35:33.079 was to not be that. My motivation was to be 741 00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:36.000 what I wanted to be, and so I came in 742 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.320 to do that. I finished basic training. 743 00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:42.159 Which which Air Force basically training everybody knows gets you ready. 744 00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:46.920 For Yeah, it's the hardest basically training. No, I learned 745 00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:49.239 how to full shirts and do and make my bed 746 00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.159 really well, which has not paid off in my later life. 747 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:55.840 That I'll make my bed. No. Air was basically trains 748 00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:59.280 a joke, I mean, no offense, but it is, you know, 749 00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:01.880 and it was, you know, you act your feed through 750 00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:04.480 the process. You're doing the slow runs. I should have 751 00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:07.000 been doing, you know, hard stuff, right, And they change 752 00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:08.519 it now. So now they break guys out and they 753 00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:11.239 actually you know, build them up to go pre selection. 754 00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:13.119 Okay, so they have like cohortes. 755 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:15.519 Yeah, they fix it. Okay. Back in the day, it 756 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:17.880 was like, hey man, you better be ready from go. 757 00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:21.320 And so you go to selections there at San Antonio 758 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:25.480 and it's a lot of running, swimming and beating your 759 00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:28.679 ass in the pool. Okay, a lot of calisthenics and 760 00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:30.800 that's it. Not a lot of weightlifting. It wasn't a 761 00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.480 lot of any of that. Really scary instructors or paying 762 00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:37.360 the ass. You know, there's a funny story, but one 763 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:40.119 of them I'll tell you later. But but yeah, so 764 00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:42.440 I'm enamored by these guys. I'm scared of them. I 765 00:36:42.440 --> 00:36:44.440 was a young kid. I didn't never done anything hard 766 00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:46.119 in my life. You know. I was a kid from Hawaii. 767 00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:47.880 I was a surfer. I was good in the water. 768 00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:50.440 I was comfortable being, you know, uncomfortable in the water. 769 00:36:50.639 --> 00:36:53.679 That was my saving grace. I wasn't super fast, you think, 770 00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:56.559 being that skinny of you fast. I wasn't fast. I 771 00:36:56.599 --> 00:37:00.280 wasn't strong. But I would go through every day knowing 772 00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:01.400 that I had to get to the end of the day, 773 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:02.719 and I wasn't thinking about it in the week or 774 00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:03.800 within the month. I was sitting at the end of 775 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:05.760 the day. And that was the only thing that saved 776 00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:09.280 me through the process was that I took it very incrementally, 777 00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:11.880 and so I'm like, I'm gonna get through this run, 778 00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:13.760 and then I know I'm gonna go to a water 779 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.280 confidence session. I'm gonna get through that, and I'll get 780 00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:17.719 to the end and I'll get to eat dinner and 781 00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:19.920 I'll go to sleep, and I'll do it again. And 782 00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:22.400 it got me through the whole process. And I was unassuming. 783 00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:26.360 If you, if you had a lineup of guys, you 784 00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:28.960 would never have picked me to get through it. There's 785 00:37:29.000 --> 00:37:31.719 no way. Because the guys are big, buff guys. They 786 00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:34.960 all quit. They all quit, and they quit from runs, 787 00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:37.880 they quit from swims, they quit from water confidence. And 788 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:40.000 the water is a great equalizer, right, And the Navy 789 00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:41.880 knows that. The seals know this is that when you 790 00:37:41.880 --> 00:37:44.360 get the water and you're uncomfortable and you can't breathe, 791 00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:49.320 you're gonna quit unless you can reprogram your brain to say, man, listen, 792 00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:52.039 I got this. And so one of the things we 793 00:37:52.079 --> 00:37:53.880 do is buddy, breathe in. But every readings really hard. 794 00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:56.480 You pass a snorkel back between your buddy. You have 795 00:37:56.480 --> 00:37:59.199 an instructor. You beat the crapety the whole time, and 796 00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:02.599 the guy you're with can screw you because if he's 797 00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:05.400 a spas and he wants you're not getting a breath. 798 00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:07.639 And then when he gives back to breath. They cover 799 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:09.840 your smoke, but you're not getting breath either, and so 800 00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:13.239 you got to like mentally prepare for not breathing. And 801 00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:16.880 so I was pretty comfortable. I was like, man, you know, 802 00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:20.280 if you surf the north Shore Hawaii, that's worse than 803 00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:22.599 any water concession you ever have in the military, right, 804 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:24.840 you know, like getting held down at sunset is a 805 00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:27.480 big deal. And when you get held down for two waves, 806 00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:30.559 you are gonna die, right if you survive it. Man, 807 00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:33.760 life is life is good. So I came straight from 808 00:38:33.960 --> 00:38:36.679 you know, surfing big waves, going to in doc and 809 00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:40.239 like they would do drownproofing, which sounds really dangerous, but 810 00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:43.360 like I would like I pretend like it was a dolphin. 811 00:38:43.400 --> 00:38:45.039 I make noises and go down and take a little 812 00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:47.159 piss in the bottom and come back and breathe. It 813 00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:48.960 was comfortable. I was like, this is like meditation was 814 00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:55.559 early before mindfulness was the thing. Yeah, yeah, right, yeah, 815 00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:58.920 so yeah, so you know you do that, you do 816 00:38:59.199 --> 00:39:01.880 you know, increment, Like it's harder, harder every week you 817 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:03.920 do a six mile run at the end, a ton 818 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:06.039 of push up, some of the pull ups instead of 819 00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:09.039 all that crap. And then you graduate and so once 820 00:39:09.039 --> 00:39:11.559 you graduate that you're in the pipeline. And so then 821 00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:14.119 you do that two years you're describing, and so you know, 822 00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:16.719 you usually start off at scuba school. You go to 823 00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:18.719 we used to go back and you go to Key West. 824 00:39:18.760 --> 00:39:21.440 We have on school of school now. We go to 825 00:39:21.480 --> 00:39:24.239 Key West with all the SF guys and we would 826 00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:26.760 crush it because we were so comfortable in the water, Like, 827 00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:29.719 you couldn't beat us, man, you couldn't crush us. And 828 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:33.079 these open water swims were easy. We'd crush everything. Man. 829 00:39:33.519 --> 00:39:35.400 The runs, you know, runs were hard for me because 830 00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:38.480 I wasn't the good of a runner. But we were studs, 831 00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.360 you know. And you go from that. You got a 832 00:39:41.360 --> 00:39:44.800 scuba bubble, which means nothing to anybody except guys have 833 00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:46.800 been to scuba school. And you go to airborne school 834 00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:48.360 and people like, what is that because it looks like 835 00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:50.039 a little astronaut. You a welder? 836 00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:55.000 Yeah, well it look like an astronaut on the Space. 837 00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:58.639 Show exactly, some stupid stuff like yeah, and uh, but yeah, 838 00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:00.519 you go to all these schools, right, so it's you know, 839 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.039 just really basic schools get basic airborne free fall survival. 840 00:40:06.239 --> 00:40:09.119 The hard one for PJS was going through eighteen delta course. 841 00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:13.000 So going through socc them that's hard for anybody else. Yeah, dude, 842 00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:16.480 we had a lot of guys that you know, wanted 843 00:40:16.480 --> 00:40:18.760 to be Pj's end up not staying with it. They're like, 844 00:40:18.760 --> 00:40:19.719 screw this, can't. 845 00:40:19.559 --> 00:40:20.199 Do it now. 846 00:40:20.480 --> 00:40:23.079 At that time, were you guys, were you guys doing 847 00:40:23.079 --> 00:40:24.559 the full eighteen delta or were you just doing the 848 00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:25.599 sock import part of it. 849 00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:30.360 Now we just did the sock them. You know, the 850 00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:33.679 eighteen delta portion on the backside maybe would have been 851 00:40:33.760 --> 00:40:36.599 more of a gentleman's course on the backside, uh, you know, 852 00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:39.920 more long term care and stuff like that. But they 853 00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:42.079 didn't like us there. Yeah, and the SF guys that 854 00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:44.039 were there, old krusty dudes, and they did not want 855 00:40:44.119 --> 00:40:46.280 us there, and so they made their lives. 856 00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:46.440 Hell. 857 00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:49.559 Yeah, they'd fail us on stupid stuff. I mean, I 858 00:40:49.599 --> 00:40:52.719 still it's like memory now, it's like bs I scene 859 00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:55.159 safe is what used to say is like by service isolation. 860 00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:57.440 If you say all these things, they would fail you. 861 00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:00.480 And it wasn't a part of your ability to treat somebody. 862 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:04.000 It was all about your ability to recite things. And 863 00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:08.039 even anatomy physiology was like super stressful because it was like, 864 00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:10.679 how can you memorize these things right now? I didn't 865 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:13.719 understand medicine when I left there. I was clueless, Like 866 00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:15.519 if you were shot in front of me after the soccer, 867 00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:18.599 I'm likes, I seen it safe. You're like, what do 868 00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:20.960 you keep saying that for? I'm like, my glove's on. Yeah, 869 00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:24.039 you know. Pharmacology was foreign to me and it never 870 00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:26.159 made sense to me until someone explained it to me 871 00:41:26.199 --> 00:41:28.480 in a way that I could understand it. And the 872 00:41:28.559 --> 00:41:32.079 process is so much better now, man like, and so 873 00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:35.079 everything's improved after the war, everything improved. 874 00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:38.280 So for our viewers and listeners, the entire eighteen Delta, 875 00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:41.199 which is a Special Forces medic course, has the trauma portion, 876 00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:43.480 which is the sock them and you come out of 877 00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:48.079 there basically with skills equal tour or exceeding a paramedic, 878 00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:53.400 right or that's the idea. And then for eighteen deltas, 879 00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:56.400 there's there's the long term care because it's based also 880 00:41:56.440 --> 00:41:59.360 around like being in a village isolated treating village. 881 00:41:59.400 --> 00:42:02.760 As I recall, they learned stuff about like animal husbandry, 882 00:42:02.800 --> 00:42:05.079 They learned things about like what if there's a viral 883 00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:08.559 outbreaking and how well, yeah that kind of. 884 00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:11.480 They're excellent medics, and I have a lot of love 885 00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:15.960 for Athan Deltas. They're awesome medics. They understand pharmacology, they 886 00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:20.239 understand wound care. They're great, they're I mean, they're I 887 00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:21.840 think they're better than a lot of the nurses, you know. 888 00:42:22.119 --> 00:42:25.760 And so I was not that okay, so just full transparency, 889 00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:28.840 it was not. I was good enough to get by. 890 00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:31.760 I passed the course first try, and I was like, 891 00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:36.360 thank God, get me out of this place. And truly 892 00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.559 it was. And so, you know, I go through all 893 00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:41.840 these courses and then I get to PG school and 894 00:42:41.840 --> 00:42:43.559 they put it all together that you climbing and some 895 00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:46.760 hyngle rescue stuff, but it's real, it's real basic, you know, 896 00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:49.400 because it's hard to make someone an expert hiengele rescue 897 00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:52.880 in a few months. It takes years, right because that 898 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:55.920 I mean that alone is especially skilled. But to be 899 00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:58.800 a good medic, to be a good parachutist, to you know, 900 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:01.079 to be able to do you know, we do rams jumps, 901 00:43:01.079 --> 00:43:03.519 which is basically folding a zodiac up and pushing on 902 00:43:03.559 --> 00:43:05.320 the back of a plane, getting the ground, you know, 903 00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:08.599 get to the ocean, pop it. You know, a scuba cylinder, 904 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:12.119 inflate it. You know, all these things, and you're supposed 905 00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:13.719 to get all of them. Right, You're not good at 906 00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:16.559 any of them, right. You're you're you know, you're competent, 907 00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:21.000 but you're not an expert. And so medicine is make 908 00:43:21.079 --> 00:43:23.800 or break. All these other things aren't like they're all 909 00:43:23.800 --> 00:43:25.719 make or break, right, because they're all dangerous, right, But 910 00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:28.000 medicine is what you're it's your bread and butter. It's 911 00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:29.880 what you're asked to do, right, And if you don't 912 00:43:29.960 --> 00:43:32.559 rocket at it, like someone's gonna die in your arms. 913 00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:35.840 And so when you go to the twenty fourth, they 914 00:43:35.880 --> 00:43:38.280 know you need to top off, and so they start start, 915 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:41.800 you know, kind of finessing those those technical or tactical 916 00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:45.079 skills of medicine and make you a really good medic. 917 00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.519 And so yeah, tell us then about about uh what 918 00:43:47.639 --> 00:43:50.400 was it Green Platoon? And I mean you've had all 919 00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:55.239 this you're already dragging around dragger systems and MC six 920 00:43:55.360 --> 00:43:58.480 parachutes and all this other crap that you've been trained on. 921 00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:02.440 What is this additional training? You know, attacking on that? 922 00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:06.159 Yeah, so green teams is really cool? So it again, 923 00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.880 so I ran Green Team later on my career, and 924 00:44:08.960 --> 00:44:11.880 it was a way better process than what I went through. 925 00:44:12.239 --> 00:44:15.239 What I went through was a bunch of courses. It 926 00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:17.800 was like really high end courses, right, the best of 927 00:44:17.840 --> 00:44:20.079 the best, I mean millions of dollars of training, but 928 00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:22.599 there wasn't there was never an FMP to like all 929 00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:24.519 put it together right. And so it was like, hey, 930 00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:26.559 I went They've sent me to swift water rescue courses 931 00:44:26.599 --> 00:44:29.199 in like West Virginia, and I would become an expert 932 00:44:29.280 --> 00:44:32.119 swift water rescue. But what does that mean? Right? And 933 00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:34.280 you know, they send me to these mountain rescue courses 934 00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:36.639 and I would do all this high end like you know, 935 00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:41.599 very complicated technical rescue. What does it mean? You know 936 00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:45.280 our jump trip? Yeah, you're you're getting very proficient at jumping, 937 00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:48.639 but how do you put it all together tactically? And 938 00:44:48.719 --> 00:44:52.199 so it's crazy to think my Green Team vice the 939 00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:54.719 Green Team today. Those guys that graduate Green Team today 940 00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:58.599 are freaking studs like they are. And I can say 941 00:44:58.599 --> 00:45:01.679 it's not about me, it's about them. They are studs 942 00:45:01.679 --> 00:45:04.079 because they get the training. So what I went through 943 00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:07.199 is you know, I go through advanced free fall. You know, 944 00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:09.880 we learned how to jump. You all kinds of equipment. 945 00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:12.960 I don't actually know. Maybe we were jumping nods at 946 00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:15.440 the time, which is a big deal GYP nods. People 947 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:19.280 weren't doing it, right. I'm trying to think we you know, 948 00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:22.199 really crazy dive trip where we do three weeks of 949 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:25.639 you know, just getting back into draggers and doing you know, 950 00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:30.679 line dives, which suck, you know, and f m P 951 00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:34.280 is doing CB, which CQB for every other service is 952 00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.280 very like foundational for us, it wasn't. And so I'd 953 00:45:37.320 --> 00:45:39.480 never done CQB when I came up there. You know, 954 00:45:39.480 --> 00:45:41.920 it was a good shot, but I did CGB is 955 00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:44.480 very difficult. It's a different game, right, Like, it's a 956 00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:49.280 different way of thinking and processing information very quickly, and 957 00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:52.079 so you're learning all this stuff within a year and 958 00:45:52.119 --> 00:45:54.440 so you pop out of there and you're a Tier 959 00:45:54.440 --> 00:45:58.519 one operator now right, Well not really because I've never 960 00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:00.159 been in combat, right, So I've been to common that 961 00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:03.559 you know, quotations, but I never you know, fired my 962 00:46:03.559 --> 00:46:07.440 weapon with your magazines. Yeah yeah, And so when I 963 00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:10.679 popped it on the backside, they sent me to a 964 00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:12.880 Tier one unit. And here I am with the best 965 00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:14.119 of the best, and I'm a. 966 00:46:14.159 --> 00:46:17.440 Nobody, Now what year is this that you get to 967 00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:18.159 the twenty fourth? 968 00:46:18.280 --> 00:46:19.360 Will you finish your Green Team? 969 00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:20.880 And I finished in two thousand and three. 970 00:46:21.119 --> 00:46:26.599 So to be fair, at that point in time, very 971 00:46:26.599 --> 00:46:29.559 few people had, like because obviously started in two thousand 972 00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:32.239 and one, so people had combat experience. Yeah, some guys did, 973 00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:37.039 but combat experience was not something that was like, nobody had. 974 00:46:36.920 --> 00:46:39.280 Combat experiments bar that Panama. 975 00:46:40.000 --> 00:46:42.480 Yeah, you'd see like grenade raiders or pan dudes with 976 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:46.559 the Panama Scroll and you know you'd be like, oh, yeah, yeah, 977 00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:47.679 he seen legend. 978 00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:48.199 Yeah. 979 00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:51.239 But so the guys that did the initial push into Iraq, 980 00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:53.400 and I've been these tics and I was on Green 981 00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:55.639 Team with them. They're telling me the stories. I'm like, dude, 982 00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:59.360 that's insane, and I'm enamored by it. Yeah, I'm like, dude, 983 00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:02.079 how would I know? How would I handle this? And 984 00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:05.119 the irony is is that, you know, everyone thinks that 985 00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:08.639 training prepares you for combat. You know, to a certain extent, 986 00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:12.400 it does, but there is a there's a next step, 987 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:15.519 and it's under fire when the stakes are really high, 988 00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:20.519 and that's when things get get real. Right. So my 989 00:47:20.679 --> 00:47:25.039 first big ap I was with the Navy and full 990 00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:30.440 compromised gunfight and I'm like, oh man, we're are we fighting? 991 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:33.199 We're fighting somebody somebody shooting, We're shooting. 992 00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:35.800 Yeah, I can shoot that, right, And you're looking at 993 00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:37.719 other people and they're shooting. I'm like, oh, I can shoot. 994 00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:42.239 Gets on, And you know, people think it's You're like, oh, 995 00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:45.199 I've got this training, Like it doesn't matter unless you're 996 00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:47.159 with guys that have been there, done that, and watch 997 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:49.519 what they do. There's some guys that are just naturally 998 00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:51.880 they're that right, we call them way grows right. They 999 00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:54.519 just want to get it on. But for the most 1000 00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:58.079 most of us, it's like it's a process and you're like, okay, 1001 00:47:58.119 --> 00:48:01.039 this is normal, Okay, this is how you act to this. Okay, 1002 00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:05.559 this is when you escalate force. And it's not as 1003 00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:08.280 intuitives you think. And so thank God is with the 1004 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:10.760 best of the best. Right, they were the best of 1005 00:48:10.840 --> 00:48:13.039 the best. And there were guys that have been on 1006 00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:16.280 two rotations before of combat. They've been there, done that, 1007 00:48:16.440 --> 00:48:19.320 And here I was a new guy going enamored. I'm like, 1008 00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:22.159 holy shit, like, yeah, I want to hang with you guys. 1009 00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:22.599 Yeah. 1010 00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:24.599 I think a good way to frame that, at least 1011 00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:27.639 for me, is like, you have a lifetime of cultural 1012 00:48:27.639 --> 00:48:32.559 conditioning of not killing people that you know that are 1013 00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:36.760 in front of you, and so when it first goes down, you, yeah, 1014 00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:40.719 you might react, but there's also potentially that thought process 1015 00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:43.880 at am I really going to kill this human? 1016 00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:45.239 This person in front of him? 1017 00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:45.679 Allowed to? 1018 00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:46.320 Yeah? Right? 1019 00:48:46.559 --> 00:48:49.400 Am I making the right Am I making the right decisions? 1020 00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:53.119 Yeah? Yeah? It sounds silly, it Yeah, it's true, man like, 1021 00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:57.840 and the guys that don't have that that limitation in 1022 00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:00.760 their psyche, the guys their liabilities too. You know, like 1023 00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:03.000 if a guy just his weapons free from the start, 1024 00:49:03.039 --> 00:49:06.760 you're like, dude, what's going on your brand? Right? Right? Yeah? 1025 00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:10.280 It should be a measured approach. And and my job 1026 00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:13.079 is to save lives, right, and so you know it's 1027 00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.239 also you know, to take lives in that respect, but 1028 00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:17.400 also it's my job is to save lives, and so 1029 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:22.239 there's a humanitarian aspect to my role. And you know 1030 00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:23.360 you have to be both. 1031 00:49:23.599 --> 00:49:26.320 Yeah, you steal the eyed killer, but also guy, you 1032 00:49:26.360 --> 00:49:29.159 can hold someone's hand while they're maybe dying. 1033 00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:31.719 And I take that very seriously man. And so you know, 1034 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:34.039 later on in my career when I would get into 1035 00:49:34.079 --> 00:49:38.199 other operations that were not necessarily PJ focused. I never 1036 00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:41.039 took it for granted. Like I was like, man, humanity 1037 00:49:41.079 --> 00:49:44.159 is important, and it's important in combat. And the guys 1038 00:49:44.159 --> 00:49:46.800 that I saw that could balance that very effectively where 1039 00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:51.559 guys are respected and you know, Kenley, it is kind 1040 00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:54.000 of easy to be a killer man like to be 1041 00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:58.960 that guy to have to be measured in your approach 1042 00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:01.559 is a very mature reaction. And then the guys that 1043 00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:04.280 respect the most. And I saw it, I saw it live, 1044 00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:07.000 and I'm like, holy crap, you didn't do that because 1045 00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:10.119 this and so you share processes information, and so when 1046 00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:12.360 I would talk to young guys that were like, you know, 1047 00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:15.320 you said Whiteside and you're like, well, what's the difference, 1048 00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:17.960 I'm like, there's a difference because I am seeing things 1049 00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.320 that are very high level where people are making very 1050 00:50:20.360 --> 00:50:24.039 good decisions and bad decisions. But I'm learning from it 1051 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:27.000 and now I'm competent and capable to make decisions on 1052 00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:30.599 my own. And so, you know, I said this before 1053 00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:33.599 to some other folks, is that, you know, being the 1054 00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:36.000 first person to shoot is something I never wanted to 1055 00:50:36.039 --> 00:50:38.079 do because you never know if you're right or wrong. 1056 00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:40.400 But as I got more mature. I'm like, Okay, I 1057 00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:41.800 know this is right, this is the right thing to 1058 00:50:41.840 --> 00:50:44.599 do because we are compromised and that guy is a problem. 1059 00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:48.199 I'm gonna shoot that guy. And but that is not 1060 00:50:48.679 --> 00:50:54.039 that is not an intuitive thing. It's something that's learned. 1061 00:50:54.679 --> 00:50:58.679 And so you know, the high level soft forces, you know, 1062 00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:02.559 Army and Navy, the guys that are very senior, they're 1063 00:51:02.599 --> 00:51:06.039 they're wired that way, they understand it, and they're the 1064 00:51:06.079 --> 00:51:07.719 guys that I want to be next to because they're 1065 00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:10.079 going to make very good decisions. They're not gonna make 1066 00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:12.880 it radic decisions, aren't to make emotional decisions. They're gonna 1067 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:15.480 be very you know, deliberate decisions. And that's a very 1068 00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:18.400 high level skill. And that's what separates White Side from 1069 00:51:18.480 --> 00:51:18.880 Tier one. 1070 00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:23.800 It's interesting because both in because both the fields that 1071 00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:27.440 you were in, combat and medicine, both of those fields, 1072 00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:33.800 I think the easy route is to dehumanize the person 1073 00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:37.280 in front of you, to compartmentalize and to become jaded 1074 00:51:37.320 --> 00:51:41.920 about it, right, that's the easier that to be, Like 1075 00:51:41.960 --> 00:51:45.800 you mentioned mindfulness earlier, to remain mindful in those situations, 1076 00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:48.519 to whether you're in a medical situation and don't just 1077 00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:51.559 shut it off, because here's another human being who's suffering, 1078 00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:54.320 and it's easier to just you know, to live in 1079 00:51:54.360 --> 00:51:56.880 a black and white world, right and just to you know, 1080 00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:59.079 shut off the emotion to it. And same with combat, 1081 00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:00.880 it's easier just to shut out the emotion to it. 1082 00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:05.039 As you know, then too, I'm I'm in front of 1083 00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:06.679 the human being who stuffering. I'm in front of him 1084 00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:08.559 being who's triab to kill me. So I'm gonna kill 1085 00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:13.320 them first without without necessarily taking away their humanity or just. 1086 00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:17.400 Here's here's an example of humanity. I was at a 1087 00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:21.480 like a really remote outstation in Afghanistan, really remote. I mean, 1088 00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:23.400 we ran out food and water, that kind of remote, right, 1089 00:52:23.840 --> 00:52:27.519 you guys have probably been there before. And we had 1090 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:30.599 a couple of prisoners, you know, we call them, you know, pucks. 1091 00:52:30.679 --> 00:52:32.000 We had a moff target and they were in our 1092 00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:36.400 makeshift prison and we would basically, you know, we'd wake 1093 00:52:36.480 --> 00:52:38.119 up and it's like, okay, it's my turn to watch 1094 00:52:38.159 --> 00:52:40.000 the prisoners. So I go in there and I feed 1095 00:52:40.039 --> 00:52:42.079 them and I treat him humanly. We're not we're not 1096 00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:46.480 on target. There's no violence here, there's no emotion. You're 1097 00:52:47.239 --> 00:52:49.800 you're in captivity. I'm taking care of you. I'm not 1098 00:52:49.840 --> 00:52:51.800 gonna I'm gonna treat you humanely. You wanna go to 1099 00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:54.480 the bathroom, will take the bathroom. Yeah, it's business. If 1100 00:52:54.519 --> 00:52:57.119 you want to. You want to get crazy, like, we 1101 00:52:57.199 --> 00:52:58.880 can deal with that. But like at the end of 1102 00:52:58.880 --> 00:53:02.360 the day, like if you're bum respectful. And we had 1103 00:53:02.360 --> 00:53:04.719 this guy who was there for two days, and I 1104 00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:07.320 remember he was like really appreciative that I would give 1105 00:53:07.360 --> 00:53:10.239 him food. I wasn't giving him, you know, benefits. I 1106 00:53:10.280 --> 00:53:12.320 was like feeding him. I was doing what I should do, right, 1107 00:53:12.320 --> 00:53:14.719 He's a human being. And turned out he was just 1108 00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:18.840 a legit farmer. And me and the Master Chief took 1109 00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:21.239 him down to the gate. We gave a bunch of money. 1110 00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:24.719 You know, he blew his door off. He no, he cried, 1111 00:53:25.360 --> 00:53:27.360 and he thanked us and he got on his knees 1112 00:53:27.400 --> 00:53:31.000 and and I'm like, man, you know, this could have 1113 00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:33.079 turned out totally differently if I had treated him, you know, 1114 00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:35.679 like if I had been a prick, because there's a 1115 00:53:35.679 --> 00:53:38.960 group thing that goes along in the military, and but 1116 00:53:39.079 --> 00:53:40.920 I knew better. I was like, man, this is a 1117 00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:43.480 human being. And even if he has a terrorist like 1118 00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:46.400 he's going to face his punishment. There's no punishment I'm 1119 00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:48.480 going to put on him now. My job is to 1120 00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:51.360 be ethical with him, right and to watch that reaction 1121 00:53:51.639 --> 00:53:54.519 when it turned out it was a mistaken identity, like 1122 00:53:55.119 --> 00:53:57.679 thank god, you know, like thank god that you know 1123 00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:00.599 we treated him well. And you know, there's a lot 1124 00:54:00.599 --> 00:54:02.639 of mistakes that happened in the early days of Iraq 1125 00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:04.400 and when we saw Abu Grave and all those things 1126 00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:07.119 that were for guys that had been around for a while, 1127 00:54:07.320 --> 00:54:10.599 like that's disgusting. You know, those were nobody's they did 1128 00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:11.400 that crap. 1129 00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:15.519 Right, and they and they weren't even like they can't 1130 00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:17.679 even stand behind enhanced interrogation. 1131 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:20.440 They were just nobody around guards. 1132 00:54:20.519 --> 00:54:23.800 Yeah, yeah, and it was terrible because look at the 1133 00:54:23.840 --> 00:54:26.920 repercussions from that of things that we we face on 1134 00:54:26.960 --> 00:54:30.119 the battle of because of that. And so you know, 1135 00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:35.960 humanity exists, you know, despite combat. And uh, you know, 1136 00:54:36.039 --> 00:54:39.360 as I got older and as I retired, you know, 1137 00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:41.920 as I got more senior, and I was like, you 1138 00:54:41.960 --> 00:54:44.519 start to understand life in a different way. But when 1139 00:54:44.519 --> 00:54:47.840 you're young, and again, group thing is is really important 1140 00:54:47.840 --> 00:54:50.920 because that's what happens. You think that's what you should 1141 00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:53.480 be doing the behaviors should be doing. If you're with 1142 00:54:53.559 --> 00:54:55.559 a group of people that behaves that way, you're gonna 1143 00:54:55.559 --> 00:54:57.440 be here that way, right because you want to fit in. 1144 00:54:57.519 --> 00:55:01.199 It's a it's a it's animal behaviors, right. And so 1145 00:55:02.159 --> 00:55:04.280 you know, for my saving grace was I was the 1146 00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:07.000 mature guys that it had been around for a long time, 1147 00:55:07.440 --> 00:55:10.440 and that were you know, I saw bad things in 1148 00:55:10.480 --> 00:55:14.039 my career, but like for the most part, very professional guys, 1149 00:55:14.079 --> 00:55:17.480 and uh, you know, it helped me become the professional 1150 00:55:17.559 --> 00:55:21.679 that I became and helped me lead effectively later on 1151 00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:22.159 my career. 1152 00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:27.320 So, how did you maintain or how did her rescue 1153 00:55:27.480 --> 00:55:32.079 maintain especially the twenty fourth the other skills that like you, 1154 00:55:32.159 --> 00:55:34.719 like you mentioned before, you guys had a plothoro of 1155 00:55:34.719 --> 00:55:38.239 skills that you had to the hire a rescue, the swimming, 1156 00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:41.719 the scuba that all that stuff. Were you able to 1157 00:55:41.800 --> 00:55:44.480 maintain that or did it all? It became a combat 1158 00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:45.199 unit at that point. 1159 00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:48.679 Well, it's kind of like the Navy. I mean, uh, 1160 00:55:49.599 --> 00:55:51.760 you know, the Navy kind of blew off diving for 1161 00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:53.519 a long time, right, they were just there fighting in 1162 00:55:53.559 --> 00:55:56.599 the desert, right, And so you know Pj's is funny 1163 00:55:56.639 --> 00:55:59.199 because pj's are we have so many skills that we do, 1164 00:55:59.639 --> 00:56:02.159 and so a lot of guys gravitate to a skill, right, 1165 00:56:02.199 --> 00:56:04.159 And see if guys are really good at climbing, and 1166 00:56:04.320 --> 00:56:07.400 they're awesome climbers. I hate climbing personally. I hate it. 1167 00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:09.159 It's scary to me. I hate being one hundred fet 1168 00:56:09.159 --> 00:56:12.239 off the ground and being off one, you know, drinking 1169 00:56:12.760 --> 00:56:15.119 piece of pro and looking down like this is gonna 1170 00:56:15.320 --> 00:56:17.400 not only am I gonna die, but I'm gonna fall 1171 00:56:17.400 --> 00:56:21.119 along the way and I'm gonna Yeah. But I like jumping, right, 1172 00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:23.679 So there's Scot Evers that really like jumping, and there's 1173 00:56:23.719 --> 00:56:26.360 guys that were like medicine. Guys were like shooting, and 1174 00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:31.280 so you gravitate to a certain kind of discipline. You 1175 00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:33.320 have to be good all of them kind of, but 1176 00:56:33.360 --> 00:56:35.559 you're gonna be good at one really well, right. And 1177 00:56:35.599 --> 00:56:37.360 so you know we have the guy I hate. You're 1178 00:56:37.360 --> 00:56:39.599 the jump guy, right, You're the guy loves jumping tan 1179 00:56:39.800 --> 00:56:43.519 you know, Bundles, You're the guy loves medicine, right, and 1180 00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:44.119 so you're. 1181 00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:45.320 The guy who knows all the knots. 1182 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:50.079 Yeah yeah, And and so PJS, it's it's really hard 1183 00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:52.679 for PJS to you can't be good at everything. There's 1184 00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:55.719 enough time in the day. And also there's people that 1185 00:56:55.760 --> 00:56:59.239 have propensity to certain things. And so you know, for me, 1186 00:57:00.320 --> 00:57:04.199 I really, I really I appreciated medicines. They knew how 1187 00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:06.599 important it was. I didn't like it, but I knew 1188 00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:07.840 how important it was, so I had to be good 1189 00:57:07.840 --> 00:57:10.679 at it. Right. I love jumping, right, So I was 1190 00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:12.639 a big sky to ever a couple of thousand jobs. 1191 00:57:12.639 --> 00:57:14.840 So tanna masters, you know, a f fi allose things. 1192 00:57:16.320 --> 00:57:19.280 I also love shooting, right, But you know, how do 1193 00:57:19.320 --> 00:57:21.840 you put all those things in to become a good operator? 1194 00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:24.280 And so what does the customer need you to be? 1195 00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:26.519 If we're commodities, you know, what does the navy ask 1196 00:57:26.599 --> 00:57:28.400 me to be? They're asked me to be really good 1197 00:57:28.440 --> 00:57:30.559 at medicine. They asked me really good rescue and not 1198 00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:34.119 be a liability on everything else, right, And so to 1199 00:57:34.119 --> 00:57:35.800 not be a liability, you have to be good at 1200 00:57:35.800 --> 00:57:36.519 those other things too. 1201 00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:40.239 So we're teams put together with that sort of aspect 1202 00:57:40.280 --> 00:57:42.280 that hey, this guy like he's got a high rent, 1203 00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:43.159 high angle. 1204 00:57:43.320 --> 00:57:46.119 This guy's in the early days, we're so we're so busy. 1205 00:57:46.679 --> 00:57:49.920 We had Afghanistan in Iraq. I did back to back deployment. 1206 00:57:49.960 --> 00:57:52.760 I would go from my rack to Afghanisan. Wow. We 1207 00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:54.800 were so busy. It was just like hey man, can 1208 00:57:54.880 --> 00:57:57.400 you go yes? And you fake it till you make 1209 00:57:57.440 --> 00:58:00.719 it right and you show up and you're like, oh crap. 1210 00:58:00.760 --> 00:58:02.880 And so I remember I went to an outstation one time. 1211 00:58:04.320 --> 00:58:06.880 This was like my sixth seventh deployment, I don't know, 1212 00:58:08.079 --> 00:58:12.280 and this o G A guy had a had assistance armpit. 1213 00:58:12.679 --> 00:58:15.840 It's like day two. I'm in this outstation roal remote outstation. 1214 00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:18.159 I'm like, he's like, hey man, hey chet, you cut 1215 00:58:18.159 --> 00:58:21.880 this out of my armpit. I'm like, you want me 1216 00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:24.760 to cut it out your armpit? He's like yeah, how 1217 00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:27.360 can that be? Like like I understand, Like I got 1218 00:58:27.400 --> 00:58:28.079 to do minor surgery. 1219 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:31.039 There are no nerves or anything that I used to 1220 00:58:31.079 --> 00:58:31.880 carry these books on me. 1221 00:58:31.920 --> 00:58:33.679 I had all these books and I looked at the book. 1222 00:58:33.400 --> 00:58:36.559 I could do that, just do deep sutures. Okay the 1223 00:58:36.679 --> 00:58:40.159 igator and I got it, and so I put him 1224 00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:43.119 down this table. I put chuck a chuck, which is 1225 00:58:43.119 --> 00:58:45.079 like a basically a drape, you know. I cut it 1226 00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:47.039 out his armpit and clean it off real good eye 1227 00:58:47.079 --> 00:58:49.679 die clean it and he's got a big old dip in. 1228 00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:55.119 He was xt ranger too by way of course, and 1229 00:58:55.199 --> 00:58:57.599 so he's like, yeah, man, do your thing. So I 1230 00:58:57.679 --> 00:58:59.960 you know, I numb it up real good and I 1231 00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:03.719 lighted open just plus comes all everywhere. It's just like 1232 00:59:03.840 --> 00:59:07.360 so much, it's like an ice cream cone, like and uh. 1233 00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:10.039 I'm supposal to remove this act right, Well. 1234 00:59:09.960 --> 00:59:12.400 I did, but I'm like, I'm like clean everything and 1235 00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:15.159 breeding it. I'm like like, maybe I shouldn't be doing 1236 00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:20.079 this grade right right, I'm like, yeah, I got it. 1237 00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:23.320 And so you know, I clean up well, I sew 1238 00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:26.079 them up great, stitches great and my my saving rist 1239 00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:28.679 I did good sutures and I'm like, hey, dude, you 1240 00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:31.079 have to keep this clean. And we had we didn't 1241 00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:33.360 have great showers there, and so hygiene was an issue. 1242 00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:35.920 I'm like, dude, you're gonna if you get infected, I'm 1243 00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:39.679 screwed because I probably shouldn't be doing this. And you know, 1244 00:59:39.719 --> 00:59:40.679 he's like, yeah, that's good. 1245 00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:44.000 I catch him out the next day playing basketball sweating 1246 00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:46.760 and I'm doing man. I was like, this is me, 1247 00:59:47.239 --> 00:59:50.239 you know, this is my credibility and so uh but yeah, 1248 00:59:50.559 --> 00:59:52.400 that's just how it was man, and in the. 1249 00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:55.000 Early days it was a free for all. In the 1250 00:59:55.079 --> 00:59:57.880 early days it was wild. You could do whatever you wanted. 1251 00:59:59.159 --> 01:00:02.920 It became more jiminta more disciplined later into the war, 1252 01:00:03.400 --> 01:00:06.199 but in the early days any went that's. 1253 01:00:06.039 --> 01:00:09.000 Just did you feel like a champ though, like like 1254 01:00:09.079 --> 01:00:10.760 taking out a sis You'd never done that. 1255 01:00:11.000 --> 01:00:13.480 No, I felt very nervous. 1256 01:00:14.079 --> 01:00:16.440 Did you ever get an opportunity again? Like you're like 1257 01:00:16.599 --> 01:00:16.960 I got Oh. 1258 01:00:17.000 --> 01:00:19.159 I did a lot of stuff later, but I was 1259 01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:24.639 very confident, Like you know, I feel like I feel 1260 01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:27.400 like I could take out your opendon marketing. 1261 01:00:29.320 --> 01:00:30.039 I got a book. 1262 01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:32.119 Yeah, I love that self confidence. 1263 01:00:32.239 --> 01:00:32.440 Yeah. 1264 01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:35.800 So as time goes on, you're going you did seventeen 1265 01:00:35.840 --> 01:00:41.159 combat rotations serving in the squadron from age twenty two 1266 01:00:41.199 --> 01:00:44.280 to forty one, getting up the senior enlisted guy and 1267 01:00:44.559 --> 01:00:47.559 super impressive career. I'd like to talk about some of 1268 01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:49.960 the some of the activities and things we were involved 1269 01:00:49.960 --> 01:00:50.920 in during that time. 1270 01:00:52.079 --> 01:00:54.360 One of the things we had mentioned to one crash 1271 01:00:54.400 --> 01:00:57.119 and bagdad. Yeah. So, like I said we would do 1272 01:00:58.159 --> 01:01:00.159 back in the day, we had to do CSAR and 1273 01:01:00.199 --> 01:01:02.800 then also the assault rotations with the Army and Navy, 1274 01:01:03.239 --> 01:01:06.239 and so I would go from one to the other. And 1275 01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:08.920 so I I was in Ballode, which was kind of 1276 01:01:08.920 --> 01:01:12.800 like our hub. We had the helos and daytime I 1277 01:01:12.880 --> 01:01:15.400 get a call that a British one thirty got shot 1278 01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:20.000 down north of Baghdad. And the one safety guys like, 1279 01:01:20.039 --> 01:01:23.360 we're not flying daytime over Baghdad, like not happening. And 1280 01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:25.400 I'm like, well, I need a ride, Like someone needs 1281 01:01:25.400 --> 01:01:28.159 to take care of this. It's bad. And you know, 1282 01:01:28.199 --> 01:01:30.800 they asked me to do it. I took responsibility for it. 1283 01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:34.039 It's mine now, it's my project. And I'm trying to 1284 01:01:34.039 --> 01:01:35.719 find a ride. I can't get I can't get to 1285 01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:38.480 where I'm going. And so there was some British uh 1286 01:01:38.679 --> 01:01:40.880 they were called super Pumas I believe, and so we 1287 01:01:41.000 --> 01:01:43.360 jumped on those. I mean they had M sixties in 1288 01:01:43.400 --> 01:01:46.639 the door daytime flight and we flew down and this 1289 01:01:46.679 --> 01:01:48.760 is when Bagdad was kind of gnarly, you know, And 1290 01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:52.840 so we dropped on the ground. Had my ranger we 1291 01:01:52.920 --> 01:01:55.760 call them SSTs or Star Security Teams, and they're basically 1292 01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:59.360 my security perimeter. And I had my team, my PG 1293 01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:02.280 team and comic controller and so we get down there. 1294 01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:04.920 I'm the team leader and you know, long hair. At 1295 01:02:04.960 --> 01:02:07.920 the time, long beard, I was wearing real tree camis, 1296 01:02:07.960 --> 01:02:09.679 which was cool because it was back in the day. 1297 01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:11.639 It was cool to looked different, and so I wanted 1298 01:02:11.639 --> 01:02:13.000 to be this different as like a look, and so 1299 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:15.559 I was doing that. It's so stupid to think about now. 1300 01:02:16.519 --> 01:02:18.360 But again, on the ground and this wreckage is like 1301 01:02:18.599 --> 01:02:20.719 strewn for you know, as far as you can see, 1302 01:02:20.920 --> 01:02:24.559 and on fire. There's fire in this river and this ditch. 1303 01:02:25.440 --> 01:02:29.559 It's a mess. And so I'm like, okay, guys, here's 1304 01:02:29.559 --> 01:02:32.000 what we're doing. And my half my rangers we were 1305 01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:34.400 talking about radios. Half my rangers had radios, half of 1306 01:02:34.400 --> 01:02:36.519 them didn't. I'm like, okay, so I need radios in 1307 01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:39.639 every VP. So we're gonna split get heavy upon here 1308 01:02:39.679 --> 01:02:42.159 because that's where the you know, most of the city is. 1309 01:02:43.119 --> 01:02:45.280 And we're gonna do this. Okay, it don't matter. We 1310 01:02:45.320 --> 01:02:48.239 don't have security. We're gonna do this. We didn't have casts, 1311 01:02:48.400 --> 01:02:50.840 so the controllers trying to get on call casts. You 1312 01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:54.639 guys were the first on the ground. Yeah, first, And 1313 01:02:55.599 --> 01:02:57.519 in my mind I knew the city was gonna start 1314 01:02:57.519 --> 01:02:59.400 waking up to what was going on, and you know, 1315 01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:02.039 potentially tunists like terrorists because this is back when there's 1316 01:03:02.079 --> 01:03:03.840 like a lot of different tar cells. They're gonna come 1317 01:03:03.840 --> 01:03:05.920 and like and they're trying to punch at us, you know. 1318 01:03:06.199 --> 01:03:10.000 So we we get on the ground and my team 1319 01:03:10.119 --> 01:03:12.639 was you know, I had a great team of guys, 1320 01:03:12.760 --> 01:03:14.960 my controller. You've got falcon view up. Back in the day, 1321 01:03:15.000 --> 01:03:17.880 we have falcons. Oh yeah, you know, you center plot 1322 01:03:17.880 --> 01:03:22.159 and we had no security. And they're they're bringing back bodies, 1323 01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:26.320 right and so but it's not bodies like you think, 1324 01:03:26.639 --> 01:03:29.480 you know, it's not bodies. It's pieces. And uh be 1325 01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:32.000 super respectful to kind of you know, because these are 1326 01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:34.199 all British. There are some says folks and some uh 1327 01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:37.880 you know, some British uh you know, aviators, and we're 1328 01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:40.280 bringing back these bodies. And I told the team, I said, listen, 1329 01:03:40.760 --> 01:03:43.719 we're gonna start putting bodies together based on like, okay, 1330 01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:47.199 right hand, left hand is a body you've got you know, 1331 01:03:47.239 --> 01:03:50.039 you have a torso it's a body. And so we'll 1332 01:03:50.039 --> 01:03:52.519 get accountability eventually. And I want you guys to get 1333 01:03:52.519 --> 01:03:54.320 the weapons all those things and we'll get this done. 1334 01:03:54.360 --> 01:03:56.440 We'll get out of here. And it turned in to 1335 01:03:56.480 --> 01:04:00.039 a huge event and it was it was massive and 1336 01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:04.639 so excuse me. So guys are bringing back stuff and 1337 01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:08.599 we talked about compartmentalizing information. I did very well. It 1338 01:04:08.599 --> 01:04:12.440 didn't it didn't mean anything to me. I was very professional. 1339 01:04:12.639 --> 01:04:14.719 It was very processed, like here's what we have to do, 1340 01:04:14.760 --> 01:04:17.840 we're gonna do it. And so we're about six seven 1341 01:04:17.840 --> 01:04:20.920 hours into this. The guys are doing great. My rangers 1342 01:04:20.920 --> 01:04:23.880 are hole in their positions. No one's pushed on us yet, 1343 01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:28.000 and they bring another super Puma down. Maybe it's a 1344 01:04:28.039 --> 01:04:30.519 links I forget which bird. It was with some SCS 1345 01:04:30.599 --> 01:04:33.280 guys and two two guys and they're like, you know, hey, 1346 01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:36.599 am I, what do you want us? And uh, I'm like, hey, 1347 01:04:36.679 --> 01:04:39.800 we have some vulnerable positions over here. Some there's apartments 1348 01:04:39.920 --> 01:04:41.880 or some buildings. I was like, if you guys could 1349 01:04:41.920 --> 01:04:46.199 go do some soft knocks, it'd be great. And they're like, yeah, absolutely, 1350 01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:49.079 and they're guys right, They're like, yeah, we're in and so, 1351 01:04:49.960 --> 01:04:52.360 you know, it didn't They didn't ask any questions, like 1352 01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:53.960 we got it. And so they went out there in 1353 01:04:54.000 --> 01:04:55.320 the city and they started doing their things. They all 1354 01:04:55.360 --> 01:04:59.000 spoke Arabic. They was doing a thing and you know, 1355 01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:01.679 the sun goes down, you know, my guys hadn't eaten, 1356 01:05:01.840 --> 01:05:05.440 you know, in a day, and I I knew there 1357 01:05:05.480 --> 01:05:07.400 was bodies in the ditch. So there was like a 1358 01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:09.679 basic you know, in Iraq there was all these like 1359 01:05:09.719 --> 01:05:12.199 irrigation ditches and it was on fire, was diesel and 1360 01:05:12.199 --> 01:05:15.519 burning and ord JPA whatever, and like, you guys gotta 1361 01:05:15.519 --> 01:05:17.280 get your dry suits on it. It was winter time 1362 01:05:17.320 --> 01:05:18.519 in Iraq. I was like, you got to go in 1363 01:05:18.559 --> 01:05:21.599 the ditch and dig for bodies. So I was like, 1364 01:05:21.639 --> 01:05:23.280 put a line on them, you know, put a rope 1365 01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:24.840 on them, and go down there and do it. And 1366 01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:28.079 so you know, we had all our gear and so 1367 01:05:28.159 --> 01:05:30.599 you guy puts his dry suit on, you know, young PJ. 1368 01:05:31.280 --> 01:05:34.400 PJ goes on top to tether him, you know, fire 1369 01:05:35.119 --> 01:05:38.280 pulling bodies and weapons out on the pitch, and the 1370 01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:44.440 sun goes down. We're alone, you know. And at the 1371 01:05:44.480 --> 01:05:48.239 same time there was an accident in Missoul where a 1372 01:05:48.280 --> 01:05:52.039 teammate of mine was in a panda with the army 1373 01:05:52.159 --> 01:05:55.239 and a Ranger striker hit That was right before I 1374 01:05:55.280 --> 01:05:58.679 got there. They collided and my buddy Chad Gezagi was 1375 01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:02.119 in there and his head got rocked pretty hard and 1376 01:06:03.280 --> 01:06:06.079 he really needed to get his head drilled to releave 1377 01:06:06.079 --> 01:06:09.840 the pressure. And you know, Chad is still you know, 1378 01:06:09.880 --> 01:06:13.119 he's quadriplegic still to this day. The accident, but it 1379 01:06:13.159 --> 01:06:15.280 happened right when we're in the field, and so everyone 1380 01:06:15.360 --> 01:06:17.760 kind of turned their attention to supporting that x feel 1381 01:06:18.079 --> 01:06:20.320 and they forgot about us in the field. And so 1382 01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:22.320 we're just know what the Bagdad, We're doing a thing. 1383 01:06:22.719 --> 01:06:25.199 And and it was the right call. I mean, they 1384 01:06:25.239 --> 01:06:27.400 needed more help than we did. We were self sufficient 1385 01:06:27.519 --> 01:06:29.199 for the most part. It could have gone really bad 1386 01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:31.519 for us, but it didn't. And but I was like, 1387 01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:34.320 why is there no comms? You know, but the entire 1388 01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:36.800 task force kind of went to le leaning on Missoul 1389 01:06:37.639 --> 01:06:41.039 and so, you know, here was on the ground. The 1390 01:06:41.079 --> 01:06:44.760 Brits had a kit bag delivered and I'm like, oh, 1391 01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:46.280 thank god, what is this? And we pull up and 1392 01:06:46.280 --> 01:06:51.760 it's it's these flasks of tea and I'm like like, 1393 01:06:51.800 --> 01:06:54.039 cool man, Like I might go some tea. I'm like, yeah, 1394 01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:56.920 I'm drinking tea is like creamer and it's delicious tea. 1395 01:06:57.239 --> 01:06:58.880 And I'm like it's not my thing, but yeah, let's 1396 01:06:58.960 --> 01:07:00.920 let's do some tea. So we drink some tea and 1397 01:07:01.880 --> 01:07:05.119 this work gets funny. So we we survived that night, 1398 01:07:05.760 --> 01:07:08.880 and we're still we're still cleaning this crashlight. It's a mess. 1399 01:07:08.920 --> 01:07:11.440 So day two goes in and this Marine's come out. 1400 01:07:11.920 --> 01:07:14.639 Lav's come out to me, and I'm the team leader. 1401 01:07:14.679 --> 01:07:17.159 I'm running the crash. It's my crash night. And this 1402 01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:21.440 Marine major shows up and again I look like I 1403 01:07:21.559 --> 01:07:23.280 you know, I'm like a hobo, right, you know, which 1404 01:07:23.320 --> 01:07:24.639 is what you want to look at and soft back 1405 01:07:24.639 --> 01:07:25.760 in the day. It's like you want to look as 1406 01:07:25.800 --> 01:07:27.840 weird as you can look, and I look pretty weird. 1407 01:07:27.920 --> 01:07:29.280 And he comes up to me. He's like, you're in charge. 1408 01:07:29.320 --> 01:07:31.079 I'm like, yeah, look, here's where I want you guys 1409 01:07:31.119 --> 01:07:33.679 from a falcony, push your you know, your your vehicles 1410 01:07:33.679 --> 01:07:37.440 out there, heavy weapons and basically telling him where to go. 1411 01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:40.519 And so he listens. He puts the folks out there. 1412 01:07:41.039 --> 01:07:43.719 So about ten hours in the next day, we're still working. 1413 01:07:45.400 --> 01:07:47.400 He starts to figure out that I'm an listed guy 1414 01:07:48.280 --> 01:07:50.039 because the way people the rangers are talking to me, 1415 01:07:50.119 --> 01:07:55.480 ay bro, and he loses his mind. A Marine Corps 1416 01:07:55.480 --> 01:07:57.639 major is a big deal, right yeah, And they don't 1417 01:07:58.199 --> 01:08:00.800 take orders from a list of guys, and he finds 1418 01:08:00.800 --> 01:08:03.960 out I'm listed, and he goes ballistic on me and 1419 01:08:04.039 --> 01:08:06.159 I stay on my ground. Of course, you know, I'm like, listen, 1420 01:08:06.400 --> 01:08:08.960 this is my crash site. Like you're in support of me. 1421 01:08:09.440 --> 01:08:11.320 I was like, if you want to fight over rank, 1422 01:08:11.400 --> 01:08:13.000 you can do that, but here's what it needs you 1423 01:08:13.000 --> 01:08:16.359 to do. And you know, it was hard for him 1424 01:08:16.359 --> 01:08:19.439 to process. And I'm like, listen, man, like I'm being 1425 01:08:19.479 --> 01:08:21.520 respectful to you. I'm not, I'm not being a dickhead. 1426 01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:23.600 I was like, I need you to help me, and 1427 01:08:23.640 --> 01:08:26.479 here's what I need you to do. And it was 1428 01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:28.960 it was like it was an inflection point for the operation. 1429 01:08:29.159 --> 01:08:32.239 Like it was like the mood changed, right, it was 1430 01:08:32.279 --> 01:08:34.199 like do we want to help you guys at that point? 1431 01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:37.560 And we end up spending three days out there on 1432 01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:40.159 the ground. We end up you know, coming back and 1433 01:08:41.279 --> 01:08:43.399 it was, you know, it was one of those offs. 1434 01:08:43.399 --> 01:08:46.159 It was like, it was really strange. We came back 1435 01:08:46.159 --> 01:08:47.960 and we didn't support the task warts. The task warts 1436 01:08:47.920 --> 01:08:50.119 stood down off because we're out there we couldn't support them. 1437 01:08:50.880 --> 01:08:56.479 And you know, I you talk about compartmentalizing things, and 1438 01:08:56.920 --> 01:09:01.439 I shared this with somebody else recently, is that I 1439 01:09:01.640 --> 01:09:04.520 did a really good job of compressing or compartmentalizing my 1440 01:09:05.079 --> 01:09:06.680 you know, whatever I was seeing, I just did a 1441 01:09:06.680 --> 01:09:09.399 great job of packaging it really well. You know. I 1442 01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:11.680 taped it up and I put it in the corner. 1443 01:09:12.039 --> 01:09:14.640 It didn't exist, It did not exist in my life, 1444 01:09:14.920 --> 01:09:17.359 it didn't exist in my mind. Nothing. And so we 1445 01:09:17.399 --> 01:09:19.079 came back to the bee huts we were refitting. We 1446 01:09:19.159 --> 01:09:21.199 just needed some sleep. We had to go basically sport 1447 01:09:21.199 --> 01:09:23.279 the task force in six hours. So we're getting like 1448 01:09:23.319 --> 01:09:26.239 five hours sleep as a chow and the chaplain and 1449 01:09:26.279 --> 01:09:28.239 the psychedic came to a bee hut and this is 1450 01:09:28.279 --> 01:09:30.279 before you could talk to child and the psych dogs, 1451 01:09:30.600 --> 01:09:33.279 you know, like knocking the door and like what they're like, 1452 01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:35.359 do you guys need to talk to us? Like why 1453 01:09:35.399 --> 01:09:38.319 would we need to talk to you? That was my reaction, right, 1454 01:09:38.880 --> 01:09:40.680 And I was the team leader, and I should have 1455 01:09:40.680 --> 01:09:44.039 been more cognitizant than my guys. Maybe we're suffering. My 1456 01:09:44.119 --> 01:09:46.920 guys maybe were dealing with stuff that I wasn't. Because 1457 01:09:46.960 --> 01:09:50.000 I was I was maybe the problem, right, I was 1458 01:09:50.039 --> 01:09:51.920 the guy that could just figure this stuff out in 1459 01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:55.079 a negative way. And I said no, I turned away, 1460 01:09:55.720 --> 01:09:58.840 And because I said, if I'm good, they're good. And 1461 01:09:59.159 --> 01:10:01.279 years later, I I reached out to one of the 1462 01:10:01.279 --> 01:10:03.600 guys on that mission with me and I said, I 1463 01:10:03.600 --> 01:10:05.920 apologized to him. I said, I'm sorry, man, I messed 1464 01:10:06.000 --> 01:10:08.399 up as a leader. That wasn't how leaders supposed to behave. 1465 01:10:08.479 --> 01:10:10.199 I should have been cognizant of where you were at 1466 01:10:10.239 --> 01:10:13.920 in your life and I didn't. And you know, it's 1467 01:10:13.920 --> 01:10:16.239 one of my regrets as a leader. I learned from it, 1468 01:10:17.720 --> 01:10:21.479 but I also I continue to compartmentalize things to my career. 1469 01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:24.840 And so you say, you know, seventeen combat deployments. There's 1470 01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:27.479 a lot of compartmentalization in that, right, And when you 1471 01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:29.600 get really good at it, it becomes your process. It 1472 01:10:29.640 --> 01:10:33.960 becomes natural to you, and it's not healthy. So it's 1473 01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:36.680 healthy for the unit because you're still on the line, right, deployed, right. 1474 01:10:36.880 --> 01:10:39.680 It keeps you on your job right the. 1475 01:10:39.680 --> 01:10:42.720 Day the day you get your your yeah, don't slow down. 1476 01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:45.960 Then you leave the military, you're like, oh, wow, it happened. 1477 01:10:46.279 --> 01:10:47.479 What's all these boxes? 1478 01:10:47.560 --> 01:10:49.159 Yeah, there'sh there, wow. 1479 01:10:49.319 --> 01:10:51.600 Yeah, yeah, I need you all for all this. 1480 01:10:51.920 --> 01:10:55.680 Yeah and uh but yeah, so that that was the 1481 01:10:56.079 --> 01:10:58.479 C one thirty you know thing in Iraq. It was 1482 01:10:58.479 --> 01:11:01.920 that I think I was two thousand and five. But 1483 01:11:02.119 --> 01:11:03.319 life just got crazier from there. 1484 01:11:03.359 --> 01:11:07.439 Man, there was another operation where you guys, you know, 1485 01:11:07.520 --> 01:11:10.399 another element you were with may or may not have 1486 01:11:10.520 --> 01:11:14.840 crossed into another place we may not mention. You said, 1487 01:11:14.840 --> 01:11:17.159 a pretty big firefight where you guys went and took 1488 01:11:17.279 --> 01:11:20.199 took on some bad guys, uh, in a hostile area. 1489 01:11:21.520 --> 01:11:23.119 I was wondering if you could, you know, tell us 1490 01:11:23.159 --> 01:11:24.560 what you what you can tell us about that? 1491 01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:28.359 Yeah, so you know, I so I've been in a few, 1492 01:11:28.680 --> 01:11:31.159 like on a few missions. Like I wasn't like the guy, 1493 01:11:31.279 --> 01:11:33.920 you know, I wasn't like the cool guy yet and 1494 01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:36.880 I didn't feel like it yet. That was the first one. 1495 01:11:36.920 --> 01:11:40.239 I was like, holy crap, this is insane. And we 1496 01:11:40.319 --> 01:11:44.319 got compromise. We're at rp orcent of ladders and compromise, 1497 01:11:44.439 --> 01:11:48.000 dogs barking gunfire from every compound and it was like 1498 01:11:48.079 --> 01:11:52.079 it was on and like I said, being around confident people, 1499 01:11:52.359 --> 01:11:54.399 they all pushed forward, and I pushed forward because they 1500 01:11:54.399 --> 01:11:56.199 were doing it right now, because I not because I 1501 01:11:56.239 --> 01:11:58.079 was the man, not because I had you know, big balls. 1502 01:11:58.119 --> 01:12:02.199 I was like, we're going forward, going forward, and we 1503 01:12:02.199 --> 01:12:04.520 push up there and you know, it was the first 1504 01:12:04.560 --> 01:12:07.199 time I had you been in a big firefight. It 1505 01:12:07.279 --> 01:12:08.880 is the first time I fire my weapon, you know, 1506 01:12:09.079 --> 01:12:12.920 at another human being. And but then we had a 1507 01:12:12.920 --> 01:12:15.520 bunch of casualties and they're like PJ. And I'm like, 1508 01:12:15.640 --> 01:12:19.159 oh crap. I'm like, not only is this target chaos? 1509 01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:21.800 Now we got people shot. And so I go over 1510 01:12:21.800 --> 01:12:24.439 there under fire and I'm like, oh crap. So you know, 1511 01:12:24.479 --> 01:12:27.399 guys are shot, two guys shot, and the target is 1512 01:12:27.399 --> 01:12:29.680 supposed to be secure. Guy comes out the doors, are 1513 01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:32.239 shooting from one of the compounds supposed to be already cleared. 1514 01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:34.800 I'm like, holy crap, this is insane. So I'm pulling 1515 01:12:34.840 --> 01:12:39.159 guys across a compound under fire. It's insanity. It's chaos. 1516 01:12:39.560 --> 01:12:41.920 Other compounds are just blown up all around us. We 1517 01:12:41.960 --> 01:12:44.079 have no clue what's going on, and we're in a 1518 01:12:44.079 --> 01:12:47.319 hostile kind of region and the city is waking up. 1519 01:12:48.359 --> 01:12:52.319 And we had one asset overhead and they were working 1520 01:12:52.359 --> 01:12:55.640 it man and the CCT was working it. And he's 1521 01:12:55.680 --> 01:12:58.279 a stud. He actually lives in close to me in 1522 01:12:58.279 --> 01:13:01.640 my neighborhood. Now he's done, and uh, he managed that 1523 01:13:01.720 --> 01:13:06.199 chaos very well. But I started getting more casuals. Guys 1524 01:13:06.239 --> 01:13:07.479 like I had a guy coming to me. He's like, hey, 1525 01:13:07.520 --> 01:13:09.720 I'm shot in the head. I'm like huh, I'm like 1526 01:13:10.039 --> 01:13:12.720 where And so I pulled off his helmet in the round. 1527 01:13:12.800 --> 01:13:14.760 It struck the front of his head, bounce, stuck in 1528 01:13:14.760 --> 01:13:17.039 the back of his helmet, and I'm like, holy crap. 1529 01:13:17.079 --> 01:13:20.159 I'm like, I check his helmet. His skull is not broken. 1530 01:13:20.199 --> 01:13:22.720 I'm like, dude, keep clearing, man. Yeah, we were so 1531 01:13:22.720 --> 01:13:24.960 so thin. It was like, keep clearing. He ended up 1532 01:13:24.960 --> 01:13:27.640 spraining his ankle and he was complained about spraining ackle 1533 01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:31.520 warming his shot the head, and then that guy shot 1534 01:13:31.520 --> 01:13:36.920 their legs and uh, it's just chaos. And so you know, 1535 01:13:38.359 --> 01:13:40.880 it probably was only maybe an hour and a half 1536 01:13:41.000 --> 01:13:44.159 maybe two hours of kind of conflict, but it felt 1537 01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:47.680 like all night. Yeah, and we end up pulling this 1538 01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:49.920 guy out. I had a I went super light because 1539 01:13:49.920 --> 01:13:51.920 we end up pumping like eight hours to this target. 1540 01:13:52.239 --> 01:13:54.399 So I was like super light. And this is back 1541 01:13:54.560 --> 01:13:56.760 when none of the seals would carry any gear for me. Right, 1542 01:13:56.760 --> 01:13:59.159 they wouldn't carry a schedcoat, they wouldn't carry it nothing. 1543 01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:01.920 I mean they they wouldn't even carry a blow of 1544 01:14:02.039 --> 01:14:04.199 kids on their own. Kid. It was like Chad you 1545 01:14:04.239 --> 01:14:07.279 got it, right, I'm like, not for everybody. And it 1546 01:14:07.399 --> 01:14:11.039 got better three years, right, it got better. But we 1547 01:14:11.039 --> 01:14:12.720 were so lean and mean that it was like we 1548 01:14:12.720 --> 01:14:14.479 were pulling them out on a poll of slitter. If 1549 01:14:14.520 --> 01:14:16.159 you've ever carried somewhe on a pole of slitter, it's 1550 01:14:16.159 --> 01:14:19.479 pretty difficult. You talk about CrossFit workouts, that's the workout 1551 01:14:19.479 --> 01:14:23.039 of the day. And we humped him down to this, 1552 01:14:22.439 --> 01:14:26.520 uh this road. The city was waking up there, coming 1553 01:14:26.560 --> 01:14:29.199 on like Hunchback nor Dame kind of style, and the 1554 01:14:29.560 --> 01:14:31.840 forty seven almost crashed on top of us because they 1555 01:14:31.840 --> 01:14:34.239 were so hyped up. And I could have touched the 1556 01:14:34.239 --> 01:14:38.079 bottom of forty seven when they landed. And so you know, 1557 01:14:38.079 --> 01:14:41.199 I'm covered in blood. My uniform is covered in blood. 1558 01:14:41.279 --> 01:14:45.159 And we get back and you know, it's when you 1559 01:14:45.159 --> 01:14:47.439 get back from debris from big ops like that, it's 1560 01:14:47.479 --> 01:14:50.199 it's kind of like, uh, you know, everyone's kind of 1561 01:14:50.239 --> 01:14:52.600 chipping away. How many people are killed and number You're like, 1562 01:14:52.640 --> 01:14:55.800 that's like four thousand people right right? That wasn't people there, 1563 01:14:56.800 --> 01:15:00.279 but you know, and then here I was, you know, 1564 01:15:00.760 --> 01:15:03.319 dealing with like, you know, what could I have done better? 1565 01:15:03.319 --> 01:15:04.640 And I could have done a lot of things better 1566 01:15:04.720 --> 01:15:07.399 and and I, uh, I have a lot of remorse 1567 01:15:07.439 --> 01:15:10.079 from that operation for the things that I didn't do well, 1568 01:15:10.520 --> 01:15:12.880 and I learned from it, and so I committed myself 1569 01:15:12.880 --> 01:15:15.479 to being way better than I was on that op 1570 01:15:16.399 --> 01:15:20.279 and I became obsessive about it. Honestly, as an operator. 1571 01:15:20.199 --> 01:15:23.279 What were the things that you became obsessive about? 1572 01:15:23.560 --> 01:15:27.119 Medicine? I wasn't super good at it, you know, I 1573 01:15:27.159 --> 01:15:30.319 wasn't good at pharmacology, I wasn't good at pain management. 1574 01:15:31.239 --> 01:15:34.439 I wasn't good all the basics. And so I committed 1575 01:15:34.479 --> 01:15:38.079 myself to being great at it, and uh, and I 1576 01:15:38.119 --> 01:15:40.600 and I think I became that But that was like 1577 01:15:40.640 --> 01:15:43.319 a really formative experience for me. And then you only 1578 01:15:43.319 --> 01:15:46.640 get a couple, you know, in your career, and you know, 1579 01:15:46.680 --> 01:15:48.479 some guys have had a lot. I'm sure you guys 1580 01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:49.760 have talked a lot of studs that have had a 1581 01:15:49.800 --> 01:15:53.720 lot of crazy experiences. But for me, that was one 1582 01:15:53.720 --> 01:15:55.520 that I could have proved myself on and I and 1583 01:15:55.560 --> 01:15:58.680 I failed, and it was, you know, failure to me. 1584 01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:00.880 I'm hypercritical. I'm like, okay, I could do this, this 1585 01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:04.279 and this, but I committed myself to never make any 1586 01:16:04.279 --> 01:16:08.239 mistakes again and you know, maybe one day walk on 1587 01:16:08.279 --> 01:16:09.800 the street in New York. Maybe all I'll get the chance. 1588 01:16:10.560 --> 01:16:13.800 There's another operation you were involved in. 1589 01:16:14.039 --> 01:16:16.840 I mean, you'd say whatever you'd like to or not 1590 01:16:16.920 --> 01:16:18.239 talk about on this one. 1591 01:16:18.279 --> 01:16:22.680 But the Captain Phillips Rescue. Yeah, so there was a 1592 01:16:22.720 --> 01:16:27.399 few few Air Force guys that, you know, we I 1593 01:16:27.479 --> 01:16:28.840 was with the small team of guys that jumped in 1594 01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:31.640 early We I was a jump master, jumped in a 1595 01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:34.840 bunch of you know, a mixed bag of nuts, you know, 1596 01:16:34.920 --> 01:16:37.960 into the the water, and our job was to basically 1597 01:16:37.960 --> 01:16:40.119 turn the lifeboat around before it hits Smalia, because if 1598 01:16:40.119 --> 01:16:43.399 it hit Samalia, they were meet gone. And we knew 1599 01:16:43.439 --> 01:16:46.119 that the squadron was gonna blow out and they're gonna 1600 01:16:46.119 --> 01:16:48.359 do the no Can hostage rescue. We're just gonna, like, 1601 01:16:48.560 --> 01:16:52.039 we're gonna fix it. Right. If they get the hinterland, 1602 01:16:52.039 --> 01:16:54.920 they're gone. And what happens with hostage and Somalia is 1603 01:16:54.920 --> 01:16:56.920 they basically hold them for the year. They go black 1604 01:16:57.239 --> 01:16:59.439 and they pop on the net make their demands, but 1605 01:16:59.479 --> 01:17:02.479 it's really hard to find them. And so we had 1606 01:17:02.640 --> 01:17:07.760 very little guidance and you know, we we went down. 1607 01:17:09.319 --> 01:17:11.399 I was in an apartment complex and I can't tell 1608 01:17:11.399 --> 01:17:14.079 you what country, but like, hey, guys, who want you 1609 01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:16.960 guys to go like, all right, we got parachutes. Now, 1610 01:17:17.760 --> 01:17:19.720 we found some parachutes in ic U ninety that were 1611 01:17:19.720 --> 01:17:22.720 expired by a couple of years. And I'm like, parachutes 1612 01:17:22.760 --> 01:17:25.159 don't like, they don't turn into like, you know, they 1613 01:17:25.199 --> 01:17:27.960 don't turn to like toxic waste every two years. Like, 1614 01:17:27.960 --> 01:17:30.159 they're probably fine, and this is pretty important. Let's just 1615 01:17:30.239 --> 01:17:33.119 jump them. And so when you talk about oram in 1616 01:17:33.159 --> 01:17:36.199 the military, it's a non starter. I'm like, screw it, man, 1617 01:17:36.239 --> 01:17:38.640 I'm the jump master. I don't know if I'm allowed 1618 01:17:38.680 --> 01:17:40.800 to make that decision, but we're gonna do it. We jumped. 1619 01:17:40.800 --> 01:17:44.000 It was all fine. We got there, you know, and 1620 01:17:44.039 --> 01:17:48.319 we were part of the solution. And so the squadron 1621 01:17:48.359 --> 01:17:50.600 sent up a really small contingent of folks to where 1622 01:17:50.600 --> 01:17:54.479 we were already, and then it resolved itself the way 1623 01:17:54.520 --> 01:17:57.760 it did. I can promise you it didn't go the 1624 01:17:57.800 --> 01:18:01.399 way the movie went or the TV you know, said 1625 01:18:01.399 --> 01:18:06.000 it did. It was. It was much more any kind 1626 01:18:06.000 --> 01:18:09.680 of low key operator stuff. You know. There were some 1627 01:18:09.760 --> 01:18:12.239 heroics that happened that night. There's some guys that did 1628 01:18:12.279 --> 01:18:15.039 some pretty awesome stuff. But the end of the day, 1629 01:18:15.079 --> 01:18:17.720 it was it was you know, kind of potshots from 1630 01:18:17.880 --> 01:18:22.279 very very close distance, you know, pulling him out. And 1631 01:18:22.319 --> 01:18:25.560 then what people don't realize is that when we pulled 1632 01:18:25.640 --> 01:18:30.399 him out, I flew back to the main aircraft with him, 1633 01:18:30.680 --> 01:18:33.119 and Discovery Channel basically blurred my face and said I 1634 01:18:33.119 --> 01:18:34.560 was an Avy seal, which is the highest praise I 1635 01:18:34.640 --> 01:18:37.119 ever got in my career, to be called a Navy seal. 1636 01:18:38.039 --> 01:18:40.840 My wife saw it, She's like, let's you walking. But 1637 01:18:41.479 --> 01:18:45.159 when we did that, we came back, the pirates attacked 1638 01:18:45.199 --> 01:18:47.560 on their ship. This never made the news, is that 1639 01:18:47.920 --> 01:18:51.640 they attacked another ship in retaliation and they just so 1640 01:18:51.760 --> 01:18:53.239 happened to drop off their cargo so that they were 1641 01:18:53.239 --> 01:18:55.000 sitting very high in the water and they couldn't get 1642 01:18:55.000 --> 01:18:57.279 on the ship. And so they called us and were 1643 01:18:57.319 --> 01:19:00.279 like hey, it was like six of us, can you 1644 01:19:00.319 --> 01:19:03.279 guys come help us? Like made a and so the 1645 01:19:04.039 --> 01:19:06.800 destroyer around, like can you guys go? And so the 1646 01:19:07.239 --> 01:19:09.279 regular squadron was going back and like high five in 1647 01:19:09.319 --> 01:19:13.199 each other, like you know, you know, cocktails whatever. We 1648 01:19:13.239 --> 01:19:16.399 were on this ship, and Phillips was with us. So 1649 01:19:16.439 --> 01:19:18.800 he's with us on the smaller ship and we're like, yeah, 1650 01:19:18.800 --> 01:19:21.640 we'll go. And so we went and basically did hook 1651 01:19:21.640 --> 01:19:24.640 and climb on the ship and did you take Phillips 1652 01:19:24.720 --> 01:19:26.560 with you or no? No, okay, he's chill on like 1653 01:19:26.600 --> 01:19:31.520 captain's bag. Okay. I was like yeah. So we went 1654 01:19:31.560 --> 01:19:33.880 out this ship and we thought there's pirates on it 1655 01:19:33.920 --> 01:19:35.880 because there was RPGs. They went lowerder in the side 1656 01:19:35.880 --> 01:19:37.720 of it. I mean, it was bad. It was like, 1657 01:19:37.760 --> 01:19:41.000 holy crap, this is legit, and maybe it was a 1658 01:19:41.000 --> 01:19:42.479 little bit of humorist. We're like, yeah, we got it. 1659 01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:45.680 And so me and one other seal we cleared the 1660 01:19:45.680 --> 01:19:48.279 front of the super tanker, which is like Conics boxes, 1661 01:19:48.319 --> 01:19:51.239 like multiple football fields. They're insanely big. I didn't know 1662 01:19:51.279 --> 01:19:53.239 how big these things were. And we're clearing this, the 1663 01:19:53.279 --> 01:19:55.680 two of us pining off Conics boxes, just one after 1664 01:19:55.720 --> 01:19:59.479 the other, thinking we're gonna tick nobody, armor catches, masks, nods, 1665 01:19:59.560 --> 01:20:02.159 and you know, we had four sixteens. We didn't have 1666 01:20:02.239 --> 01:20:04.760 MP sevens. We had four sixteen's, and the rest of 1667 01:20:04.800 --> 01:20:07.039 the team went to go to the superstructure, which they 1668 01:20:07.039 --> 01:20:09.640 thought everyone was locked down in, and so we're assuming 1669 01:20:09.640 --> 01:20:12.399 we're getting in a gunfight and there's no one on 1670 01:20:12.399 --> 01:20:14.720 the ship and it was the eeriest thing and so 1671 01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:17.479 it was just out there floating. No, they they attacked 1672 01:20:17.479 --> 01:20:19.239 this thing. They couldn't hook onto it because it's so 1673 01:20:19.359 --> 01:20:21.840 high and we didn't know this, and so the crew 1674 01:20:21.840 --> 01:20:24.920 had locked themselves in the superstructure thinking they were under duress, 1675 01:20:25.399 --> 01:20:28.960 and they called may day and so here we are 1676 01:20:28.960 --> 01:20:31.800 to save the day and there's no one there, yea, 1677 01:20:32.000 --> 01:20:33.880 So we have to we have to ride back with 1678 01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:36.239 this ship for like two days. And they're like merchant 1679 01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:39.079 marines on this thing. And I don't know if you 1680 01:20:39.079 --> 01:20:41.600 guys know what these people are. They're like full on 1681 01:20:41.720 --> 01:20:45.399 like criminals. Man, They're like they're they're making shanks. Yeah, 1682 01:20:45.439 --> 01:20:47.960 and I'm sleeping this bed. I'm more scared of them 1683 01:20:48.000 --> 01:20:50.680 than smaly pirates. And I'm like, these guys are gonna 1684 01:20:50.720 --> 01:20:54.800 kill me and they're gonna eat me. And but no, 1685 01:20:55.039 --> 01:20:58.079 it was, Uh it was an interesting like dynamic. But 1686 01:20:58.359 --> 01:21:00.880 there was so much more to the story. Eventually it 1687 01:21:00.880 --> 01:21:03.079 will come out. I'm assuming somebody will talk about it. 1688 01:21:03.119 --> 01:21:05.359 But uh, yeah, it was. It was cool. It was 1689 01:21:05.359 --> 01:21:07.039 cool to be there. I didn't know it was a 1690 01:21:07.039 --> 01:21:10.439 big deal. It was during Easter and so you know, 1691 01:21:10.479 --> 01:21:12.920 I would call from the fantail of the ship on 1692 01:21:12.960 --> 01:21:14.880 my my ridium. I had to readeom folks that I'm 1693 01:21:14.880 --> 01:21:21.119 a bougie guy, right yeah, and so oh it's like 1694 01:21:21.199 --> 01:21:23.520 she's like, what's going on there? Like nothing? What do 1695 01:21:23.520 --> 01:21:25.199 you hear? She's like, it's a big deal back in 1696 01:21:25.199 --> 01:21:27.199 the States. Yeah. 1697 01:21:27.399 --> 01:21:30.159 So yeah, Oh, the thry. 1698 01:21:30.159 --> 01:21:35.279 Was the different network. Yeah, but I had both. Yeah, 1699 01:21:35.479 --> 01:21:36.840 so you know, you really made it. We have a threat. 1700 01:21:37.359 --> 01:21:39.520 So when you guys were on this like two day 1701 01:21:39.600 --> 01:21:43.279 pleasure cruise, did h what was the command? 1702 01:21:43.760 --> 01:21:45.560 Was there anybody going where are you guys? 1703 01:21:45.920 --> 01:21:48.840 No? Because I think they were. So people give special 1704 01:21:48.840 --> 01:21:51.880 operations like a lot of credibility, but like they're hyper 1705 01:21:51.920 --> 01:21:55.239 focused on getting the assault force back home, and so 1706 01:21:55.319 --> 01:21:57.760 we were kind of like, you know extra you know. 1707 01:21:58.079 --> 01:22:00.000 Uh, what was the port of call? Where did you 1708 01:22:00.039 --> 01:22:00.640 guys get off? 1709 01:22:00.680 --> 01:22:03.800 I can't tell you. Okay, yeah, but we came back. 1710 01:22:04.119 --> 01:22:06.640 I'll tell you that. The team and I. 1711 01:22:06.239 --> 01:22:08.560 I'm gonna I'm gonna pretend it's Bali and you guys. 1712 01:22:08.720 --> 01:22:10.279 I wish well it would be the wrong part of 1713 01:22:10.319 --> 01:22:13.199 the world, but I don't care in this, In this 1714 01:22:14.039 --> 01:22:15.800 know that part of the world's not very nice. But 1715 01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:18.199 we went back there had some cocktails and it was 1716 01:22:18.239 --> 01:22:20.680 funny because it was like nothing happened. It was like 1717 01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:22.880 it was just another thing. And so we went back 1718 01:22:22.920 --> 01:22:25.319 and had some drinks. Act we went to party that night, 1719 01:22:26.960 --> 01:22:29.439 and uh, we had a good time. And it's just 1720 01:22:29.479 --> 01:22:33.319 funny to think, how, you know, things appear in the news, 1721 01:22:34.119 --> 01:22:37.720 how sensationalized they are, but to us it was like, yeah, 1722 01:22:37.720 --> 01:22:39.840 it was cool man. We did went and did the thing. 1723 01:22:39.840 --> 01:22:42.880 We wouldn't do another thing, you know. Yeah, So you're 1724 01:22:42.880 --> 01:22:45.840 constantly looking for the next thing, right to kind of fill. 1725 01:22:45.680 --> 01:22:50.199 Your bucket, and and the next thing has to be 1726 01:22:50.239 --> 01:22:51.239 cooler than it. 1727 01:22:51.239 --> 01:22:53.199 Has to be cooler, right, it has to be more 1728 01:22:53.239 --> 01:22:57.520 sensational and more violent or whatever you wanted to be, right, So. 1729 01:22:59.239 --> 01:23:00.880 What was the next thing for you? 1730 01:23:00.960 --> 01:23:07.880 Then? On that rotation, you know, not a lot. It 1731 01:23:07.920 --> 01:23:10.680 was a lot of prep and so my job was 1732 01:23:10.720 --> 01:23:16.039 to kind of this is before you can imagine what 1733 01:23:16.079 --> 01:23:17.600 part of the world it was. It was four things 1734 01:23:17.640 --> 01:23:19.399 were built up. We were building things up. When we're 1735 01:23:19.399 --> 01:23:22.680 building partner forces and these things doing really like the 1736 01:23:23.000 --> 01:23:25.920 grunt work of it, you know, kind of the non 1737 01:23:26.000 --> 01:23:28.960 sexy stuff living in safe houses, the true safe houses 1738 01:23:28.960 --> 01:23:32.399 where you know you're eating you're truly eating what you 1739 01:23:32.479 --> 01:23:36.439 got local food. You can't go outside because you have 1740 01:23:36.520 --> 01:23:38.239 to be If you see a white guy there, it's 1741 01:23:38.239 --> 01:23:40.800 a big deal. So people say they're living in a 1742 01:23:40.800 --> 01:23:43.319 safe house, You're like, dude, when you're living in a 1743 01:23:43.359 --> 01:23:47.479 safe house, you don't walk outside, right, So a lot 1744 01:23:47.520 --> 01:23:48.600 of that grunt work on that. 1745 01:23:48.760 --> 01:23:54.560 On that deployment, you said you also spent about seven 1746 01:23:54.640 --> 01:23:57.399 years doing some of the more like clandestine operations. 1747 01:23:58.199 --> 01:24:01.159 Yeah, so I was doing that when Kevin Pillows thing happened. 1748 01:24:02.119 --> 01:24:05.119 You know, we would do loavez ovs. OPE is a 1749 01:24:05.199 --> 01:24:06.960 term to get thrown around. It's operational prep with the 1750 01:24:07.039 --> 01:24:11.039 environment or op B, a prep for the battlefield or AFO, 1751 01:24:11.199 --> 01:24:14.600 which is advanced forced operations. Just sexy ways of saying, 1752 01:24:14.880 --> 01:24:17.159 you know, you're doing things that aren't necessarily tied to 1753 01:24:17.600 --> 01:24:21.119 you know, big constructs in the military. And you can 1754 01:24:21.159 --> 01:24:23.479 do OPE op B anywhere, right, You could do it 1755 01:24:23.520 --> 01:24:26.479 in Indonesia, you could do it in East Africa, you 1756 01:24:26.479 --> 01:24:29.680 can do it in Europe. But there's not a lot 1757 01:24:29.680 --> 01:24:32.199 of people that do it. There's people say they do 1758 01:24:32.239 --> 01:24:34.439 it because they go into country and they're like, hey, 1759 01:24:34.479 --> 01:24:37.079 I have a passport and I'm wearing a suit. That's 1760 01:24:37.119 --> 01:24:40.159 not OPE. When you're actually doing tasks and saying hey, 1761 01:24:40.199 --> 01:24:43.960 i'm gonna you know, I'm gonna fix this problem for you. 1762 01:24:43.960 --> 01:24:46.159 You know, those are the problem sets that are more difficult, 1763 01:24:46.199 --> 01:24:50.800 and it takes a more refined kind of team. And 1764 01:24:50.840 --> 01:24:52.960 so it takes guys that are smarter. It takes guys 1765 01:24:52.960 --> 01:24:56.159 that are able to work on their own. And so 1766 01:24:56.199 --> 01:24:57.159 I did that for a while. 1767 01:24:58.680 --> 01:25:01.920 OPE can invent develop like a number of different things, 1768 01:25:01.920 --> 01:25:06.159 from like intelligence gathering to identifying landing zones to all. 1769 01:25:06.000 --> 01:25:08.319 These sorts of Yeah, it's not one thing. I think 1770 01:25:08.359 --> 01:25:10.720 that traditionally, you know, it's been in one vein of 1771 01:25:10.800 --> 01:25:13.800 like I'm gonna, you know, do caches in Eastern Europe. 1772 01:25:13.920 --> 01:25:18.079 Like okay, that's traditional, right, But yeah, that's an element. 1773 01:25:18.239 --> 01:25:23.319 But what I what my experience was is that when 1774 01:25:23.319 --> 01:25:26.359 you have really talented guys, you can do anything. And 1775 01:25:26.439 --> 01:25:29.560 you say, hey, Chad, can you guys go do X? Yes, 1776 01:25:29.600 --> 01:25:32.039 the answer is yes. And if I'm a PJ, can 1777 01:25:32.079 --> 01:25:35.199 I go do an LZ service? Yes? I can. You know, 1778 01:25:35.239 --> 01:25:38.119 if you're a really you know, high end competent, you know, 1779 01:25:38.520 --> 01:25:40.880 because there's different types of seals, right, and the seals 1780 01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:43.239 that we're with are very high functioning guys that are like, 1781 01:25:43.279 --> 01:25:46.119 can solve problems? Can you go do X? Yes? We can. 1782 01:25:46.319 --> 01:25:47.800 Can you work with this partner for us? Can you 1783 01:25:47.840 --> 01:25:51.119 build this safe house? Yes? And so it's not sexy 1784 01:25:51.119 --> 01:25:53.319 stuff all the time, but a lot of times it 1785 01:25:53.359 --> 01:25:58.159 devolves into very dangerous activities, and especially if you're in 1786 01:25:58.239 --> 01:26:02.880 environments that are very nascent and there's no footprint. 1787 01:26:03.079 --> 01:26:05.119 Semi permissive to non permissive, non. 1788 01:26:04.960 --> 01:26:08.880 Permissively yeah, yeah, so you know, truly non permissive. And 1789 01:26:09.439 --> 01:26:12.079 not a lot of military, even soft guys have experienced 1790 01:26:12.119 --> 01:26:14.800 this where you're like, oh, I was in Afghanistan. I 1791 01:26:14.800 --> 01:26:17.439 was a remote, Like, okay, that's cool. What about when 1792 01:26:17.479 --> 01:26:19.000 you're in a complete. 1793 01:26:20.840 --> 01:26:21.960 Behind enemy lines. 1794 01:26:22.680 --> 01:26:24.239 Yeah, when you're in a country that you're not at 1795 01:26:24.239 --> 01:26:26.920 war with and they want to kill you, and when 1796 01:26:27.000 --> 01:26:28.920 they do, no one's coming to get you. When you're 1797 01:26:28.920 --> 01:26:31.199 a tick, there's no QRF and there's no kasavak, right, 1798 01:26:31.600 --> 01:26:33.800 And so my job would always be to figure it out, 1799 01:26:33.840 --> 01:26:36.319 like Chad, well, if this happens, what do you do? 1800 01:26:36.399 --> 01:26:39.239 I'm like, And so I would work commercial assets, trying 1801 01:26:39.239 --> 01:26:41.479 to get you know, international sos to go in and 1802 01:26:41.520 --> 01:26:45.079 like pull us out of remote regions. And it became 1803 01:26:45.119 --> 01:26:47.039 a thinking man's game, which was really good for me 1804 01:26:47.079 --> 01:26:49.720 because I was intellectually stimulated right and I was like, 1805 01:26:49.760 --> 01:26:50.800 holy crap, this is fun. 1806 01:26:51.000 --> 01:26:53.239 So let's talk a little bit about OPE and OPB 1807 01:26:53.399 --> 01:26:53.800 real quick. 1808 01:26:54.159 --> 01:26:58.239 We're talking about operational preparation of the environment and operational 1809 01:26:58.279 --> 01:27:00.880 preparation of the battlefield. Some as we'll talk about like 1810 01:27:00.920 --> 01:27:04.920 advanced AFO Advanced Force operations, and really it's it's the 1811 01:27:04.920 --> 01:27:07.920 guys who are going in where we might have interest, 1812 01:27:08.000 --> 01:27:09.880 but we're not sure if we have interest. 1813 01:27:10.000 --> 01:27:12.199 And we might be at war there one day. 1814 01:27:12.159 --> 01:27:16.840 One day, and really setting up the plumbing, setting up 1815 01:27:17.000 --> 01:27:17.720 the environment. 1816 01:27:17.880 --> 01:27:20.159 You know who the rock stars are. It's not the operators, 1817 01:27:20.199 --> 01:27:23.279 it's the singing guys. It's the tech guys. Guys that 1818 01:27:23.359 --> 01:27:26.039 can look look at infrastructure and logistics. Those are the 1819 01:27:26.159 --> 01:27:29.520 rock stars. And you know, despite how cool we think 1820 01:27:29.520 --> 01:27:32.920 we are, without them, we wouldn't do those jobs. And so, 1821 01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:35.920 you know, a lot of OPE and AFO is you know, 1822 01:27:36.039 --> 01:27:39.520 sing and ew related, and so you know, you being 1823 01:27:39.560 --> 01:27:41.960 able to contribute to that mission set is important. And 1824 01:27:42.000 --> 01:27:44.840 so if you're a knuckle dragger, like we don't need you, 1825 01:27:44.920 --> 01:27:47.159 like we don't need a gun. We need guys that 1826 01:27:47.199 --> 01:27:50.640 can do the gun work but also do the you know, 1827 01:27:50.680 --> 01:27:54.000 the tech stuff. And so a lot of operators became 1828 01:27:54.199 --> 01:27:58.079 kind of dual purpose where they had a basic understanding 1829 01:27:58.119 --> 01:28:00.920 I'm not going to overinflate my you know worth, but 1830 01:28:01.119 --> 01:28:04.000 a basic understanding of how sing it works, of how 1831 01:28:04.039 --> 01:28:06.760 networks work, and then how to get after those things 1832 01:28:06.760 --> 01:28:09.680 and how to how to employ you know, tactics and 1833 01:28:09.760 --> 01:28:13.119 techniques to uh set conditions for other folks to come 1834 01:28:13.119 --> 01:28:15.600 in and be successful. Right, and so you know, you 1835 01:28:15.640 --> 01:28:19.000 look at the theater right now for Europe and even 1836 01:28:19.039 --> 01:28:21.800 pay Com. You know, there's a lot of prep work 1837 01:28:21.800 --> 01:28:24.000 that has to go on to make those those theaters successful. 1838 01:28:24.479 --> 01:28:30.000 Now there are Army special mission units that that's sort 1839 01:28:30.039 --> 01:28:31.680 of their Bailey Wicked, their bread and butter. 1840 01:28:32.800 --> 01:28:37.119 But of course everybody does everything. Now, how. 1841 01:28:38.399 --> 01:28:45.000 How did seals like get into that? That's definitely all right, right, 1842 01:28:45.239 --> 01:28:46.680 I mean and everybody did see he. 1843 01:28:46.680 --> 01:28:48.920 Had intelligence collection units that are really good at it, 1844 01:28:49.279 --> 01:28:52.680 but basically within Jasak, like if you read the book 1845 01:28:52.680 --> 01:28:55.319 Team of Teams, that was the early days of Iraq's 1846 01:28:55.560 --> 01:28:59.399 very you know, very basic construct. It grew very fast 1847 01:28:59.720 --> 01:29:03.000 and everyone wanted the mission, so everyone built capabilities, right, 1848 01:29:03.119 --> 01:29:05.439 and so everyone had the same capabilities, right, And so 1849 01:29:05.479 --> 01:29:07.399 when you had the Army and Navy, they had all 1850 01:29:07.399 --> 01:29:10.600 the same like singing, you know, ew like they had everything. 1851 01:29:11.079 --> 01:29:13.960 They were all you know, it wasn't joint anymore. It 1852 01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:16.520 was like this is a bohemoth, you know, task force. 1853 01:29:16.560 --> 01:29:18.520 They can do everything right, and this one was too, 1854 01:29:19.159 --> 01:29:23.680 and so you know, it became kind of a dog 1855 01:29:23.720 --> 01:29:27.479 fight for mission, you know, and so everyone could do it. 1856 01:29:27.840 --> 01:29:31.960 And so those very bespoke capabilities you're talking about, they 1857 01:29:31.960 --> 01:29:34.680 were important and they would definitely be involved in it 1858 01:29:34.720 --> 01:29:38.279 was very high level. Otherwise they're like, we got it right. 1859 01:29:38.359 --> 01:29:41.520 And so it was a really interesting dynamic to watch 1860 01:29:41.640 --> 01:29:43.560 develop over the years. And like I said, I came 1861 01:29:43.600 --> 01:29:45.239 in you know, two thousand and two to selection in 1862 01:29:45.279 --> 01:29:48.319 two thousand and three, and then watched the whole transervation 1863 01:29:48.399 --> 01:29:52.359 of the command and it became a monster, right, you know. 1864 01:29:52.600 --> 01:29:56.920 Right, and and for you, I mean, because it's interesting 1865 01:29:56.920 --> 01:29:59.640 that you were there. Because the Seals do have their cormen. 1866 01:30:01.319 --> 01:30:05.000 No so well they they do and they don't. So okay, 1867 01:30:05.079 --> 01:30:06.800 if you're a seal and you got the Green team. 1868 01:30:07.159 --> 01:30:07.800 You're an assaulter. 1869 01:30:08.039 --> 01:30:10.920 I see, you're not a coreminating Interesting okay, yeah, I 1870 01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:11.319 didn't know that. 1871 01:30:11.359 --> 01:30:13.720 You don't carry medrug. You know, there's some guys that 1872 01:30:13.880 --> 01:30:16.479 were still interested in medicine and they would help, but 1873 01:30:16.800 --> 01:30:19.760 they're not carrying at medrog They're carrying you know, door charges, 1874 01:30:19.800 --> 01:30:21.840 they're carrying you know, m P seven s. 1875 01:30:22.000 --> 01:30:24.600 They're carrying the heavier. 1876 01:30:24.520 --> 01:30:27.960 Yeah, they are, No, they are, and so it basically 1877 01:30:28.000 --> 01:30:30.119 relieves them from having to do that job. Yeah, their assaulters 1878 01:30:30.760 --> 01:30:33.079 with the army, you have eighteen deltas and they are 1879 01:30:33.079 --> 01:30:35.279 eighteen deltas and they are the primary medic for that 1880 01:30:35.279 --> 01:30:38.520 that squad. And pj's will help them, but the pjs 1881 01:30:38.520 --> 01:30:41.640 are to rescue and recovery, right, and so that's the differentiation. 1882 01:30:41.800 --> 01:30:46.399 And so and for you, you know, sort of focusing 1883 01:30:46.399 --> 01:30:49.800 on this fission for a few years, were you afforded 1884 01:30:49.800 --> 01:30:53.840 training opportunities to to go learn. 1885 01:30:54.399 --> 01:30:57.800 Skills training up with these teams before you Yeah, so 1886 01:30:57.880 --> 01:30:59.359 you're basically attached that team. 1887 01:30:59.399 --> 01:31:01.920 I mean, you know, you live with them, you train 1888 01:31:01.960 --> 01:31:04.079 with them, do you work ups with them? And then 1889 01:31:04.319 --> 01:31:06.720 to get specialized training you have to be very specific 1890 01:31:06.800 --> 01:31:08.640 on what you want to do, because you only have 1891 01:31:08.640 --> 01:31:11.359 a finite amount of time, right, And so if you're 1892 01:31:11.399 --> 01:31:14.119 a guy who needs a top off on medicine, like 1893 01:31:14.199 --> 01:31:16.439 you get two weeks, what are you gonna do with it? Right? 1894 01:31:16.439 --> 01:31:18.439 And so you're gonna spend a ton of money and 1895 01:31:18.479 --> 01:31:22.359 get the best medical training you can get. And that's 1896 01:31:22.439 --> 01:31:25.720 the differentiator too, between white white side and Tier one 1897 01:31:25.800 --> 01:31:28.560 is that, like if I want to go, you know, 1898 01:31:28.600 --> 01:31:30.600 to the best burn center in the world, like I 1899 01:31:30.640 --> 01:31:34.319 can go there and top off on on burn injuries. 1900 01:31:35.119 --> 01:31:37.439 And that's the thing when you talk about going into 1901 01:31:37.520 --> 01:31:40.399 remote medicine and some of the safe house stuff, is 1902 01:31:40.399 --> 01:31:44.960 that you have to specialize then, because I would have 1903 01:31:45.000 --> 01:31:48.399 to do pharmacology stuff in the safe houses where it 1904 01:31:48.800 --> 01:31:50.880 wasn't expected to be. On the on the assault side, 1905 01:31:51.119 --> 01:31:53.520 I don't care, like just do just do good, you know, 1906 01:31:53.720 --> 01:31:56.239 pain management, that's all we care about. If I'm living 1907 01:31:56.239 --> 01:31:58.279 in a safe house and guy gets sick, I gotta 1908 01:31:58.319 --> 01:32:00.279 take care of him. And so I would have to 1909 01:32:00.279 --> 01:32:02.680 top off on those skills. And so guys like eighteen 1910 01:32:02.720 --> 01:32:04.439 Deltas is very intuitive to them, they would know how 1911 01:32:04.479 --> 01:32:06.199 to do it. But here I was the guy that 1912 01:32:06.239 --> 01:32:09.079 could integrate with the assault mission, go back and forth 1913 01:32:09.119 --> 01:32:11.880 to the IFO mission. But then I just need to 1914 01:32:11.880 --> 01:32:13.239 top off on the medicin right here, and I can 1915 01:32:13.239 --> 01:32:16.399 get I can get there fast, right And so I 1916 01:32:16.439 --> 01:32:20.079 think that's the biggest uh. One of the best attributes 1917 01:32:20.079 --> 01:32:22.960 of pjs within that world is that they're very quick 1918 01:32:23.039 --> 01:32:26.399 to react to needs. And so you know, if you 1919 01:32:26.439 --> 01:32:29.920 look at like a tech company, the successful tech company 1920 01:32:29.920 --> 01:32:31.279 as the ones that can react to the needs of 1921 01:32:31.279 --> 01:32:33.920 the customers very quickly and build a build a thing. 1922 01:32:35.159 --> 01:32:37.760 PJS within a Tier one units are that, and they 1923 01:32:37.760 --> 01:32:39.520 can say, oh, you want me to be in a 1924 01:32:39.640 --> 01:32:42.840 ropes expert, gotcha, let me go to Montana real quick, 1925 01:32:43.000 --> 01:32:44.960 or you know, get topped off and I'll become a 1926 01:32:45.159 --> 01:32:48.680 you know, you know, elite climber. You know amg A 1927 01:32:49.000 --> 01:32:51.199 certified and it's it's like that. 1928 01:32:51.399 --> 01:32:53.920 And with medicine, you guys have access to some of 1929 01:32:53.960 --> 01:32:55.960 the best hospitals in the United States. 1930 01:32:56.359 --> 01:32:58.399 Yeah, all the best, all the best trauma hospitals in 1931 01:32:58.399 --> 01:33:00.840 the United States are very good with work of the military, 1932 01:33:01.239 --> 01:33:03.600 and you know, there's a lot of folks that work 1933 01:33:04.039 --> 01:33:07.119 habitually with them. When you work at you know, big 1934 01:33:07.159 --> 01:33:10.600 cities like there's you know, the shock traumas, and you know, 1935 01:33:10.640 --> 01:33:12.760 any big city has a lot of violent you know. 1936 01:33:13.279 --> 01:33:15.119 I think New Orleans is one of them. New York 1937 01:33:15.159 --> 01:33:17.479 is one of them where you have a lot of 1938 01:33:17.520 --> 01:33:22.640 stabbings and shootings. You're getting reps right, and you know, 1939 01:33:23.399 --> 01:33:25.800 you know, and I I dote on the Rangers a lot, 1940 01:33:25.920 --> 01:33:29.920 but the Ranger medics, their medics became the best in 1941 01:33:29.960 --> 01:33:34.199 the tiers. I I feel like they had so much trauma, 1942 01:33:34.279 --> 01:33:37.760 whether it be internal you know, to the regiment also 1943 01:33:38.000 --> 01:33:41.119 host nation. They were doing so much stuff, and their 1944 01:33:41.199 --> 01:33:43.960 pas and doctors were training them NonStop. So when they 1945 01:33:43.960 --> 01:33:46.560 come off the missions when everyone else is playing video games, 1946 01:33:46.640 --> 01:33:50.119 they were doing classes. And that's why they became so 1947 01:33:50.239 --> 01:33:54.960 good what they did. And so when I I, I 1948 01:33:55.239 --> 01:33:57.119 you had to do refreshers every two years, you know, 1949 01:33:57.199 --> 01:33:59.880 to keep your currencies up. And every two years I 1950 01:34:00.039 --> 01:34:02.600 would go through Softness, which is at Fort Bragg. And 1951 01:34:02.680 --> 01:34:04.760 I could have gone to like you know, the the 1952 01:34:04.800 --> 01:34:07.439 Gucci ones like and gone skiing and like done some medicine, 1953 01:34:07.479 --> 01:34:10.399 get refreshed, right, But I knew it was so important 1954 01:34:10.399 --> 01:34:12.800 that had to go with the best guys. They were 1955 01:34:12.800 --> 01:34:15.680 doing no kiddy Military Medicine. So I did every single time, 1956 01:34:15.720 --> 01:34:18.800 every single refresher I did at Sophomass, every single one 1957 01:34:18.800 --> 01:34:21.840 of them. I never went to New Hampshire and went skiing. 1958 01:34:21.920 --> 01:34:25.039 I never did in my whole career. And guys are like, dude, 1959 01:34:25.199 --> 01:34:27.800 why don't. I'm like, I want to, but I have 1960 01:34:27.840 --> 01:34:29.399 to have to be good at this. And what I 1961 01:34:29.439 --> 01:34:32.560 realized was when I go there Ranger Medics, these guys 1962 01:34:32.560 --> 01:34:34.880 would teach me a ton and then they started becoming 1963 01:34:34.880 --> 01:34:37.920 instructors of softness. And I was so impressed by these 1964 01:34:37.960 --> 01:34:40.479 guys because they were so switched on and they'd seen 1965 01:34:40.520 --> 01:34:44.359 so much and they were able to uh instruct very well. 1966 01:34:45.399 --> 01:34:49.479 I was. I was very impressed by the range of 1967 01:34:49.479 --> 01:34:54.000 medics man. And so I I championed us getting back 1968 01:34:54.000 --> 01:34:56.760 into that program because we kind of got pushed out 1969 01:34:56.760 --> 01:35:00.039 of it and we got pushed back in. But I 1970 01:35:00.039 --> 01:35:01.399 have a ton of respect for him man. 1971 01:35:01.479 --> 01:35:05.119 So and they never like asked you what it was 1972 01:35:05.159 --> 01:35:10.600 as business, the acronym that you used, uh those basic 1973 01:35:10.640 --> 01:35:12.239 SYSM or those systems. 1974 01:35:11.880 --> 01:35:14.560 Oh BSI yeah, no, no, never. 1975 01:35:14.520 --> 01:35:15.560 Hammered you on that, no, man. 1976 01:35:15.600 --> 01:35:17.720 I mean these guys were like, you know doing you know, 1977 01:35:17.720 --> 01:35:19.960 buddy transfusions, they've done them in the field, and they 1978 01:35:19.960 --> 01:35:22.840 were doing high end like uh, you know, just very 1979 01:35:22.880 --> 01:35:25.479 creative medicine, and they were so good at what they did. 1980 01:35:25.600 --> 01:35:28.479 And I I knew that if you want to be 1981 01:35:28.520 --> 01:35:30.520 a good combat medic, you have to talk to the 1982 01:35:30.520 --> 01:35:33.279 best combat medics guys. I've seen it. And so, like 1983 01:35:33.279 --> 01:35:34.920 I said in the first mission, that I messed up, 1984 01:35:35.520 --> 01:35:38.000 like that was my chance. And so if these guys 1985 01:35:38.039 --> 01:35:40.760 were getting chances every night, man, they are going to 1986 01:35:40.840 --> 01:35:43.640 be the best very fast. And so when you're working 1987 01:35:43.680 --> 01:35:46.039 with very high end soft guys, they're not getting shot 1988 01:35:46.079 --> 01:35:47.840 all the time, you know what I mean, You shouldn't 1989 01:35:47.840 --> 01:35:52.079 be getting shot all the time, right, So the Rangers 1990 01:35:52.079 --> 01:35:55.560 were getting shot a lot, you know, no offense, but 1991 01:35:55.560 --> 01:35:56.880 they were getting shot a lot because they're going in 1992 01:35:56.920 --> 01:35:59.920 some dangerous missions. And the Rangers took over Atfghinistan and 1993 01:36:00.039 --> 01:36:02.279 they were basically a Tier one four in Afghanistan and 1994 01:36:02.279 --> 01:36:04.600 they were killing it. Man, they were doing so many 1995 01:36:04.600 --> 01:36:07.960 ops and they were kicking ass. Because everyone else is 1996 01:36:08.000 --> 01:36:10.279 so focused on everything else in the world, They're like, 1997 01:36:10.399 --> 01:36:12.720 we got this, and so they got a little reps. 1998 01:36:12.840 --> 01:36:16.680 And so that's why I am That's why I love 1999 01:36:16.720 --> 01:36:18.960 what they did and I respect the hell out of them. 2000 01:36:18.960 --> 01:36:22.399 So you also mentioned, uh, there're some OTV ops that 2001 01:36:22.439 --> 01:36:22.840 you were on. 2002 01:36:25.720 --> 01:36:28.000 So in everyone's career, you want to do an OTV, right, 2003 01:36:28.039 --> 01:36:30.680 so you want over the beach op? It sounds cool. 2004 01:36:31.800 --> 01:36:34.920 I went to a theater and there was a team 2005 01:36:35.159 --> 01:36:37.079 back in the States that were training for a mission. 2006 01:36:37.960 --> 01:36:40.359 And I was already in theater and I was doing 2007 01:36:40.399 --> 01:36:43.880 my thing. I was during cocktails and parties, and they're like, well, 2008 01:36:43.920 --> 01:36:47.319 there's a PJ controller in theater. Like yeah, like okay, 2009 01:36:47.359 --> 01:36:49.600 well we could just use them, right, And so these 2010 01:36:49.600 --> 01:36:51.800 guys came out and was like I forget five or 2011 01:36:51.800 --> 01:36:54.680 six guys and they're like, hey, you guys go to 2012 01:36:54.720 --> 01:36:57.479 this OTV, Like, how hard is it. It's a swim 2013 01:36:57.560 --> 01:37:02.079 into the beach. It's not rocket side. And so we 2014 01:37:02.119 --> 01:37:05.279 did one one shakeout swim. They'd done like weeks of 2015 01:37:05.399 --> 01:37:08.760 work up, we had done zero. Me and the controller like, 2016 01:37:08.880 --> 01:37:10.199 how hard is this gonna be? It's like, it's a 2017 01:37:10.239 --> 01:37:14.399 swim and so we uh we go into a destroyer. 2018 01:37:14.680 --> 01:37:18.640 We go into a rib uh noel h X ribs, 2019 01:37:18.680 --> 01:37:21.199 but uh we go to zodes and the zodes kick 2020 01:37:21.239 --> 01:37:24.520 us off and we swim in, and we swim in 2021 01:37:24.800 --> 01:37:28.600 to the hinterland in this remote region. We walk in 2022 01:37:29.680 --> 01:37:32.800 and uh, I'm not on a night schedule, so I 2023 01:37:32.800 --> 01:37:36.079 was really tired. And they were doing something. There was 2024 01:37:36.119 --> 01:37:38.720 an activity. There's like a terrace camp right next to us, 2025 01:37:38.800 --> 01:37:42.520 and uh, it's like our wreckie. We were doing something. 2026 01:37:43.000 --> 01:37:47.319 I can't tell what, and I'm like bored out of 2027 01:37:47.359 --> 01:37:49.319 my mind. It was the most boring. I mean, there 2028 01:37:49.359 --> 01:37:53.079 was like a hundred guys sleeping like down a ridge line. 2029 01:37:53.399 --> 01:37:55.439 You can see him, and like, we can't do anything 2030 01:37:55.439 --> 01:38:00.680 about them, but we, uh, we do. We do our thing, 2031 01:38:00.720 --> 01:38:04.000 whatever we're doing, and then we pull out to patrol out. 2032 01:38:04.199 --> 01:38:05.880 And so I'm in the back of the formation. And 2033 01:38:05.920 --> 01:38:09.359 if if there's any Navy you guys watching this, they'll 2034 01:38:09.399 --> 01:38:11.880 know maybe you guys are not really good at like, uh, 2035 01:38:12.880 --> 01:38:17.000 you know, patrolling, like the basic fundamentals of like you know, uh, 2036 01:38:17.680 --> 01:38:20.560 you know, line formations or passing signals back and forth. 2037 01:38:20.800 --> 01:38:23.000 They just kind of wing it right, So they're patrolling. 2038 01:38:23.079 --> 01:38:25.600 Everyone's got their heads down, all in MP seven's and 2039 01:38:26.800 --> 01:38:28.680 I'm walking in the back. I'm the second man. There's 2040 01:38:28.840 --> 01:38:32.640 Roos security and these guys go to this ridge line 2041 01:38:32.960 --> 01:38:36.039 and there's this uh there's just like this animal pen. 2042 01:38:36.560 --> 01:38:39.520 So in this region they have like these they built 2043 01:38:39.560 --> 01:38:42.039 these walls with those sticks to keep the lines out, 2044 01:38:42.439 --> 01:38:44.119 and they have one entrance and so they know when 2045 01:38:44.119 --> 01:38:46.840 the line's coming or whatever. And so and these guys 2046 01:38:46.880 --> 01:38:50.079 rustle because these birds kick up and they come out 2047 01:38:50.199 --> 01:38:52.079 and I see them nods. I'm like, holy crap. So 2048 01:38:52.119 --> 01:38:55.560 I put my laser on them, and I stop, and 2049 01:38:55.720 --> 01:38:59.199 I I'm like you no, no one's gonna look at 2050 01:38:59.199 --> 01:39:04.079 it like this, and no one stops. They could keep going. 2051 01:39:04.159 --> 01:39:07.159 I'm like, okay. So it's me and him and we're 2052 01:39:07.199 --> 01:39:10.760 about to get a tick, and so my laser's on them. 2053 01:39:10.840 --> 01:39:12.880 These guys get up. They got weapons, and I'm like, 2054 01:39:13.680 --> 01:39:16.239 oh my gosh, of course, what's gonna happen right now? 2055 01:39:16.880 --> 01:39:20.159 And the guy behind me sees it, puts his laser 2056 01:39:20.159 --> 01:39:23.199 on it. So two of us and we stop. We're 2057 01:39:23.199 --> 01:39:28.479 holding these guys know something's going on outside, and you know, 2058 01:39:28.880 --> 01:39:32.000 like people in movies, you're like, oh, it's you know, 2059 01:39:32.079 --> 01:39:34.319 two or three guys. It's easy to clean up. Like no, 2060 01:39:34.520 --> 01:39:38.079 it could be very nasty, right, and so, but our 2061 01:39:38.319 --> 01:39:40.640 entire force has gone over the beach to get their 2062 01:39:40.680 --> 01:39:42.640 fins on to go swim back out, and we're standing there. 2063 01:39:42.680 --> 01:39:48.039 I'm like, okay, and so we just stop and we wait. 2064 01:39:48.079 --> 01:39:50.960 We'ren't there for five minutes, which is an eternity or not. 2065 01:39:51.840 --> 01:39:54.680 Those guys never came back. They don't even notice we're 2066 01:39:54.760 --> 01:39:58.159 even there. And so these guys finally chill out. They 2067 01:39:58.159 --> 01:40:00.319 turn back around their weapons and go back down and 2068 01:40:00.359 --> 01:40:02.840 you can see the ever little candle in there, and 2069 01:40:02.880 --> 01:40:04.960 we patrol back out the we go back to the beach. 2070 01:40:05.000 --> 01:40:07.239 I'm like, dude, what the hell are they gone? 2071 01:40:07.760 --> 01:40:10.760 No, they're like where you guys A dude? There was 2072 01:40:10.760 --> 01:40:13.880 two you know, yeah, And we swim back out and 2073 01:40:14.600 --> 01:40:18.760 but there's so much like comedy within operations, within soft 2074 01:40:18.800 --> 01:40:22.239 that we just get lucky so much, you know, and 2075 01:40:22.279 --> 01:40:24.479 we swim back out. And it was funny when we 2076 01:40:24.479 --> 01:40:27.840 swim back out to the destroyer. They had a they 2077 01:40:27.840 --> 01:40:30.119 had a dip tank on the back of the fantail 2078 01:40:30.279 --> 01:40:34.199 or like dipping our weapons you in fresh water, and 2079 01:40:34.279 --> 01:40:37.439 all the gear and all these navy folks, like you know, 2080 01:40:37.479 --> 01:40:40.039 conventional navy folks on the back and this chick's on 2081 01:40:40.079 --> 01:40:42.399 the back. She's like, I know, y'all out there killing 2082 01:40:42.439 --> 01:40:48.520 black folks, like we didn't kill anybody different. She's like 2083 01:40:48.560 --> 01:40:51.199 going off on us, and one of the master chiefs 2084 01:40:51.239 --> 01:40:54.800 there rips her new one, and I'm like, do people 2085 01:40:54.880 --> 01:40:56.520 really say that kind of stuff? Like we come off 2086 01:40:56.560 --> 01:40:58.640 an op like it's fucking crazy. No one has no 2087 01:40:59.119 --> 01:41:02.680 idea what we're doing. And to make that comment is like, dude, like, no, 2088 01:41:02.800 --> 01:41:06.000 we're actually really civilized people or doing some very gentlely 2089 01:41:06.079 --> 01:41:07.520 stuffed in the inter lendstage, you know. 2090 01:41:07.600 --> 01:41:10.479 I mean she's in the same military you are. 2091 01:41:11.159 --> 01:41:15.000 Well, that's the other thing is the military is like us. 2092 01:41:15.159 --> 01:41:18.479 There's this cognitive dissonance of what the military is like. 2093 01:41:18.520 --> 01:41:21.079 The military is designed to fight and kill, right, that's 2094 01:41:21.079 --> 01:41:23.359 what it is. Right. It's not there to win hearts 2095 01:41:23.359 --> 01:41:25.640 and minds. It's not there to be shurew A force 2096 01:41:25.760 --> 01:41:29.039 is there to kill. And if you don't process that 2097 01:41:29.079 --> 01:41:31.800 information and come to terms with it, you're not a 2098 01:41:31.800 --> 01:41:35.600 part of the solution. And so I think a lot 2099 01:41:35.640 --> 01:41:39.920 of military folks because within the past twenty years, there's 2100 01:41:39.960 --> 01:41:42.039 only handful of people that went to combat, right, the 2101 01:41:42.079 --> 01:41:45.159 lot of people deployed. Within the people that deployed, there's 2102 01:41:45.159 --> 01:41:48.760 only handful people actually went outside the wire and fought. 2103 01:41:48.920 --> 01:41:50.840 But to the civilian, they look at it like, oh, 2104 01:41:50.880 --> 01:41:52.880 you're in the military. I think of your service. You're like, oh, 2105 01:41:52.920 --> 01:41:55.800 you went to Afghanistan. No, you're you're a bogram and 2106 01:41:55.840 --> 01:41:58.159 you're a logistics person and you'd never left the wire, 2107 01:41:58.279 --> 01:42:00.520 like and you had you know, you had coffee every 2108 01:42:00.600 --> 01:42:03.960 day and good chow haul. And there was certain people 2109 01:42:04.000 --> 01:42:06.399 that went and fought. And it's a very small group 2110 01:42:06.399 --> 01:42:10.439 of people, and that's hard for people to understand, Like 2111 01:42:10.600 --> 01:42:11.720 it's a small group man. 2112 01:42:13.439 --> 01:42:16.359 Yeah, and now is you know, you're going on all 2113 01:42:16.359 --> 01:42:19.399 of these you know, clean DestinE operations, you've done the 2114 01:42:19.600 --> 01:42:22.840 more conventional operations, rescue operations, like you're becoming pretty like 2115 01:42:22.880 --> 01:42:24.800 salty senior guy in the unit at. 2116 01:42:24.680 --> 01:42:27.479 This point, and then you accidentally make grand great right right. 2117 01:42:27.520 --> 01:42:29.399 And the Air Force, I mean, I know it used 2118 01:42:29.399 --> 01:42:31.199 to be, but the Air Force used to be very hard. 2119 01:42:31.319 --> 01:42:33.279 It was probably the hardest service to make rank in 2120 01:42:33.279 --> 01:42:33.760 it is. 2121 01:42:34.000 --> 01:42:36.439 And so if you've seen the movie like Pure Luck, 2122 01:42:36.600 --> 01:42:39.600 like I dumb luck fall into things and so I 2123 01:42:39.640 --> 01:42:42.159 meet E eight and I'm like, oh my god, and 2124 01:42:42.199 --> 01:42:43.760 the Air Force is a big deal. You're like, oh, 2125 01:42:43.800 --> 01:42:46.600 your career's over. And I'm like, if I can just 2126 01:42:46.720 --> 01:42:49.119 hide as an E eight, maybe they'll still deploy me. 2127 01:42:49.199 --> 01:42:51.520 I can just hang out here for a while. And so, 2128 01:42:51.960 --> 01:42:54.199 you know, I deployed a couple of times in EAID, 2129 01:42:54.239 --> 01:42:55.960 which is a big deal in the Air Force. And 2130 01:42:56.000 --> 01:42:57.039 then finally they're like, hey. 2131 01:42:57.000 --> 01:42:59.399 Dude, cause you're supposed to be managing people, you're supposed 2132 01:42:59.439 --> 01:43:02.239 to be go into ops, right, you gotta go to ops, man, 2133 01:43:02.239 --> 01:43:03.199 you got to pay your penance. 2134 01:43:03.199 --> 01:43:05.319 And I'm like, I want to go to OPS. And 2135 01:43:05.399 --> 01:43:08.479 so I went out and did a thing as an 2136 01:43:08.479 --> 01:43:10.279 EA and it was like a big deal. They're like, 2137 01:43:10.600 --> 01:43:13.199 you can't be doing that stuff anymore. I'm like, this 2138 01:43:13.239 --> 01:43:14.800 is all I want to do in my life, right, 2139 01:43:14.960 --> 01:43:17.159 this is what I what I'm designed to do, This 2140 01:43:17.199 --> 01:43:18.560 is what I trained to do. Is what I want 2141 01:43:18.560 --> 01:43:21.640 to do. And they threw me in OPS and this 2142 01:43:21.720 --> 01:43:24.039 is funny. I mean it's not comment really, it's not sexy. 2143 01:43:24.079 --> 01:43:26.960 But I went to OPS and I'm like, you know, 2144 01:43:27.359 --> 01:43:29.760 it's like super Bad or what's the movie? When it's 2145 01:43:29.800 --> 01:43:33.680 like FML, It's like this is my life now. And 2146 01:43:33.760 --> 01:43:36.880 so I did that for six months and they're like, hey, 2147 01:43:38.119 --> 01:43:41.279 Green Team Selection open up and we need a senior 2148 01:43:41.319 --> 01:43:42.920 guy to go there. Do you want to go do that? 2149 01:43:42.920 --> 01:43:45.319 I'm like, yes, yes, absolutely, give me out of ops. 2150 01:43:45.760 --> 01:43:48.640 And so I went there and and that that was 2151 01:43:48.760 --> 01:43:52.720 really formative for me as a leader. I learned how 2152 01:43:52.720 --> 01:43:55.479 to lead in a different way. I had been leading 2153 01:43:55.520 --> 01:43:58.319 the past, leading the way I saw other people lead, 2154 01:43:59.000 --> 01:44:00.439 and I thought that was where it would do it, 2155 01:44:00.560 --> 01:44:03.640 and it was not authentic for me. And so I 2156 01:44:03.680 --> 01:44:06.560 got a chance to kind of reset for myself and say, listen, 2157 01:44:07.880 --> 01:44:09.880 I'm not a hard ass. I'm not. I want to be, 2158 01:44:10.000 --> 01:44:11.960 but I'm not. I'm never going to be. I'm a 2159 01:44:12.039 --> 01:44:14.760 nice guy. You know. I can connect with people, and 2160 01:44:14.800 --> 01:44:16.960 so that's what I need to do. And so when 2161 01:44:16.960 --> 01:44:19.159 I ran selection training, I got to kind of cut 2162 01:44:19.159 --> 01:44:22.199 my teeth doing that. And then from selection training I 2163 01:44:22.199 --> 01:44:24.199 went to twenty fourth sts and became the chief there 2164 01:44:24.279 --> 01:44:26.239 as the senior you know enlisted. 2165 01:44:26.479 --> 01:44:28.439 So this is kind of putting you on the spot 2166 01:44:29.159 --> 01:44:33.079 and take your time in answering this. But if you 2167 01:44:33.119 --> 01:44:36.680 had to pick like a fictional or a real character. 2168 01:44:38.159 --> 01:44:40.800 Chuck Norris, there, you go, okay. 2169 01:44:40.560 --> 01:44:43.000 No, but based on how you thought you were supposed 2170 01:44:43.000 --> 01:44:47.359 to lead. Yeah, And then how you actually became a leader. 2171 01:44:47.079 --> 01:44:49.239 Where you see hard asses and you know in TV, 2172 01:44:49.560 --> 01:44:51.840 and I grew up with hard asses right as leaders 2173 01:44:52.079 --> 01:44:54.560 and I was and Kenniley they were, they were great. Man. 2174 01:44:54.600 --> 01:44:56.079 I was like, those guys are bad, you know, bigger 2175 01:44:56.079 --> 01:44:58.520 in life and and in the Rage of Battalion. You 2176 01:44:58.600 --> 01:45:00.279 guys know, if you're you know, seen a guy in 2177 01:45:00.279 --> 01:45:04.560 the Rage Attalia, you're a hard ass, right. But what 2178 01:45:04.640 --> 01:45:07.760 I realized was that my superpower was you know, connecting 2179 01:45:07.800 --> 01:45:10.840 with folks and being empathetic and having high IQ with folks, 2180 01:45:11.000 --> 01:45:15.039 and so I could still be just as effective and 2181 01:45:15.079 --> 01:45:17.800 not have to be that guy. But it took me 2182 01:45:17.800 --> 01:45:19.600 a while to figure it out because I was immature, 2183 01:45:19.640 --> 01:45:22.800 you know. And so as I became more mature and 2184 01:45:22.800 --> 01:45:25.560 became more self aware and comfortable in my own skin, 2185 01:45:26.520 --> 01:45:28.439 I realized that I could lead a different way. And 2186 01:45:29.640 --> 01:45:32.680 you know, is that a kind of gentler you know, 2187 01:45:32.880 --> 01:45:37.079 military maybe. I mean, you know, I still have a temper. 2188 01:45:37.159 --> 01:45:38.039 I can still get mad. 2189 01:45:38.800 --> 01:45:40.760 I think you put your thumb on it pretty well. 2190 01:45:40.880 --> 01:45:43.680 That the screaming and the yelling and like that's a 2191 01:45:43.720 --> 01:45:45.560 lot of like trying to throw up a smoke screen 2192 01:45:45.600 --> 01:45:48.239 to compensate for an inability of leadership. 2193 01:45:48.199 --> 01:45:51.239 I think there, but there's also a time for that, 2194 01:45:51.479 --> 01:45:55.439 maybe like when molding people. But you're also but even 2195 01:45:55.520 --> 01:45:58.640 Ranger Battalion changed dramatically from like the time I got there, 2196 01:45:58.880 --> 01:46:01.880 when I was there, which was pre g WATT and 2197 01:46:02.000 --> 01:46:05.079 when as from what I understand, as you know, through 2198 01:46:05.119 --> 01:46:09.960 the g WATT as it became more professionalized that you know, 2199 01:46:10.720 --> 01:46:13.600 people started treating your leaders started treating it was a 2200 01:46:13.600 --> 01:46:14.720 professional organization. 2201 01:46:15.319 --> 01:46:17.279 You know, it was very capable when I was there. 2202 01:46:17.159 --> 01:46:18.920 But I remember the stories the rate of attalian where 2203 01:46:18.920 --> 01:46:21.279 they like throw fire excus you guys, you just walking 2204 01:46:21.319 --> 01:46:23.439 back and forth and then throw extinguishers. I mean I 2205 01:46:23.439 --> 01:46:24.640 heard the stories. 2206 01:46:24.319 --> 01:46:25.800 From them were just ranger games. 2207 01:46:25.960 --> 01:46:29.199 Yeah, yeah, but you understand, you understand the dynamic of 2208 01:46:29.239 --> 01:46:34.359 it's like, you know, it's doggy dog, right, and you know, 2209 01:46:34.760 --> 01:46:37.439 if you're a if you're the Tier one operator, supposed 2210 01:46:37.399 --> 01:46:38.520 to be a little bit moreture. 2211 01:46:38.239 --> 01:46:38.640 Right, right. 2212 01:46:39.319 --> 01:46:41.079 And so here I was leading these guys that were 2213 01:46:41.159 --> 01:46:44.800 very capable and they're all extremely competent. They were all 2214 01:46:44.960 --> 01:46:47.359 you know, combat hardened guys. They didn't need me to 2215 01:46:47.439 --> 01:46:51.720 be right, like I had my reps right, But Kimly, 2216 01:46:51.840 --> 01:46:54.079 it didn't matter. My job was to support them where 2217 01:46:54.079 --> 01:46:55.800 they were at right and be a good leader for 2218 01:46:55.840 --> 01:46:58.840 them and be the leader that I never received. And 2219 01:46:58.920 --> 01:47:03.479 so you know, it's easy to say that I will. 2220 01:47:03.720 --> 01:47:06.000 I can be very honestly and tell you that I 2221 01:47:06.039 --> 01:47:08.119 did the best I could to be that guy, and 2222 01:47:08.159 --> 01:47:09.920 I think I did a decent job of doing it. 2223 01:47:11.159 --> 01:47:14.039 But it was it was an inflection point for me personally, 2224 01:47:14.359 --> 01:47:16.800 and it was a big growth, you know, moment for me. 2225 01:47:18.680 --> 01:47:21.119 I just to clarify a point when you talked about 2226 01:47:21.119 --> 01:47:21.680 going to OPS. 2227 01:47:21.680 --> 01:47:24.119 That sounds really sexy, but for people who don't know, 2228 01:47:24.479 --> 01:47:26.239 OPS is like operational planning. 2229 01:47:27.079 --> 01:47:29.039 It's not sexy. 2230 01:47:28.600 --> 01:47:31.920 Doing sit revs and like sending gear to guys overseas, 2231 01:47:31.960 --> 01:47:35.000 like it's terrible. Yeah, I mean someone's got to do it, 2232 01:47:35.439 --> 01:47:38.479 you know, it's an important job. I just felt like 2233 01:47:39.199 --> 01:47:40.880 I felt like I was the pony in the in 2234 01:47:40.920 --> 01:47:43.039 the in the you know, the paddock that was like 2235 01:47:43.760 --> 01:47:47.760 a kicking and I wasn't ready to go into the stable. 2236 01:47:47.840 --> 01:47:50.199 I was like, I want to keep dancing, and uh, 2237 01:47:51.039 --> 01:47:54.880 probably the best knowledge I could figure, you know, but 2238 01:47:56.279 --> 01:47:59.000 for me personally, I just wasn't ready to hang it up. 2239 01:47:59.359 --> 01:48:00.800 But in the Air Force, when you get to that 2240 01:48:00.840 --> 01:48:05.399 point a senior, you're done. And in the Army especially, 2241 01:48:05.439 --> 01:48:07.720 you know, within the tier one unit you can be 2242 01:48:07.720 --> 01:48:09.920 an E nine and running gun right until the day 2243 01:48:09.960 --> 01:48:13.960 you retire, right, And I think that's awesome. In the Navy, 2244 01:48:14.159 --> 01:48:16.199 you can do it to a certain extent, but they're 2245 01:48:16.520 --> 01:48:18.239 not the same as the Army because there's a lot 2246 01:48:18.239 --> 01:48:20.399 of nines in the Army and the Air Force there's 2247 01:48:20.479 --> 01:48:22.159 not a lot of E nines. And so if you're 2248 01:48:22.159 --> 01:48:23.800 in A nine, it's like, holy crap, we need you 2249 01:48:23.840 --> 01:48:26.159 to go here, and we need you to manage you know, 2250 01:48:26.239 --> 01:48:30.079 this this program with this unit, and it's not sexy, 2251 01:48:30.079 --> 01:48:32.520 it's grunt work. We need guys to do it. We 2252 01:48:32.560 --> 01:48:36.640 need good guys to do it. And so I you know, 2253 01:48:36.680 --> 01:48:39.239 when I wasn't one of those guys, I was really 2254 01:48:39.239 --> 01:48:40.920 excited about going to twenty fourth to be the chief. 2255 01:48:41.039 --> 01:48:43.800 I never aspired to be that A lot of guys did. 2256 01:48:43.960 --> 01:48:45.640 I never did. But when they asked me to do 2257 01:48:45.680 --> 01:48:48.359 I was like, yeah, I'll do it for them. And 2258 01:48:48.359 --> 01:48:51.000 and my wife knows this, she was like, I was like, 2259 01:48:51.039 --> 01:48:53.039 I don't know how I can do all this stuff. 2260 01:48:53.279 --> 01:48:55.000 And I was like, I want to be a good 2261 01:48:55.039 --> 01:48:58.479 leader for them, and so I really tried. I tried 2262 01:48:58.520 --> 01:49:00.880 really hard to be well. I should have been in 2263 01:49:00.880 --> 01:49:04.600 that unit, but it was not prestigious for me. There 2264 01:49:04.640 --> 01:49:07.720 was no like, uh, it wasn't like meeting my chest. 2265 01:49:07.760 --> 01:49:09.439 I was like I made it. I was like, I 2266 01:49:09.479 --> 01:49:11.760 was like, oh, crap at this job and it's gonna 2267 01:49:11.760 --> 01:49:13.319 be hard, and I have to deal with all these 2268 01:49:13.359 --> 01:49:16.039 people issues and all these guys are in harm's way. 2269 01:49:16.520 --> 01:49:18.680 And we were non stop deployed and we never stopped 2270 01:49:18.720 --> 01:49:22.000 deploying our unit, just like a lot of these units 2271 01:49:22.039 --> 01:49:26.119 were deployed since nine eleven into perpetuity and so until 2272 01:49:26.159 --> 01:49:29.439 just recently they stopped deploying. Right, you know, Afghanistana racks 2273 01:49:29.600 --> 01:49:33.520 draw down Syria their home, and that's when the real 2274 01:49:33.520 --> 01:49:35.680 problems come in, Right, that's when guys are like, now 2275 01:49:35.720 --> 01:49:38.119 you're getting duys. Now you're getting the guys with you know, 2276 01:49:38.239 --> 01:49:40.560 domestic issues. I didn't have those issues. 2277 01:49:40.640 --> 01:49:40.800 Yeah. 2278 01:49:40.840 --> 01:49:42.319 I just had a bunch of pipe hitters. They're doing 2279 01:49:42.359 --> 01:49:45.479 great things, and they were very mature and they were capable. 2280 01:49:46.560 --> 01:49:49.079 I had the best, you know, I had the best situation. 2281 01:49:49.760 --> 01:49:54.720 So what year did you take over? Like the Green Team. 2282 01:49:55.680 --> 01:49:58.000 Was it maybe twenty seventeen. 2283 01:49:58.640 --> 01:50:02.079 So and you went in two thousand and three, two 2284 01:50:02.079 --> 01:50:04.960 thousand and two, two thousand and three, Oh not not 2285 01:50:05.000 --> 01:50:06.279 to Greene yeah Green Team. 2286 01:50:06.479 --> 01:50:06.560 Ye. 2287 01:50:08.680 --> 01:50:11.039 How had by the time you got there? How had 2288 01:50:11.079 --> 01:50:13.520 it changed over them so much? 2289 01:50:14.800 --> 01:50:17.479 So here's the biggest thing that changed how we selected folks. 2290 01:50:18.119 --> 01:50:20.520 And so if you guys came to us in the unit, 2291 01:50:20.760 --> 01:50:23.199 you put your package in, you know, we're like, okay, 2292 01:50:23.600 --> 01:50:25.920 you got a duy here, it was five years ago. 2293 01:50:25.960 --> 01:50:27.920 Have you learned from it? Okay, keep your nose clean? Okay, 2294 01:50:27.960 --> 01:50:30.800 maybe we'll talk to you. Okay, you get through the 2295 01:50:30.800 --> 01:50:35.359 front door just from your package, you know, interview, come 2296 01:50:35.399 --> 01:50:38.399 to selection, and then we do this process where we 2297 01:50:38.399 --> 01:50:40.760 we really get to know the person, the individual, their psyche. 2298 01:50:40.800 --> 01:50:43.479 When you're saying, how they make decisions. We put them 2299 01:50:43.479 --> 01:50:46.720 in situations, ethical dilemmas, We do all these things that 2300 01:50:46.920 --> 01:50:51.000 really breaks down the individual and how they think, which 2301 01:50:51.000 --> 01:50:53.560 is way more important than how much you lift. Do 2302 01:50:53.600 --> 01:50:55.239 We still want you to be a stud absolutely, You 2303 01:50:55.239 --> 01:50:57.079 got to right, You got to you gotta do the 2304 01:50:57.079 --> 01:50:59.760 long ruck, you gotta run fast, you gotta care eavy things. 2305 01:50:59.600 --> 01:51:00.920 You got to keep up with the seals. You got 2306 01:51:00.920 --> 01:51:01.680 to keep up with the rangers. 2307 01:51:01.680 --> 01:51:04.279 You get, that's an expectation. But here's what we're asking 2308 01:51:04.279 --> 01:51:08.800 you to do. We're asking you to have a very 2309 01:51:09.119 --> 01:51:12.359 clear ethical compass. We're asking you to make good decisions 2310 01:51:12.399 --> 01:51:16.680 under stress. We're asking you to have a high EQ 2311 01:51:16.960 --> 01:51:20.319 and IQ like we're looking at those things. Okay, we're 2312 01:51:20.319 --> 01:51:23.640 not taking dummies. We have very smart guys within the 2313 01:51:23.680 --> 01:51:27.279 special the Air Force Special Operations side. They're they're very 2314 01:51:27.319 --> 01:51:31.680 competent dudes, and we test them and we test them 2315 01:51:31.680 --> 01:51:34.760 amongst their peers. And so one of the questions, it's funny, 2316 01:51:34.840 --> 01:51:36.479 like I was thinking about, you know, talking to you 2317 01:51:36.479 --> 01:51:38.880 guys about this, is that you know, one of the 2318 01:51:38.920 --> 01:51:40.439 questions is would you want to be in a car 2319 01:51:40.560 --> 01:51:42.039 with this guy for I think it was like eight 2320 01:51:42.079 --> 01:51:46.279 hour car? And that's a good question, right, Do I 2321 01:51:46.319 --> 01:51:47.920 want to ride in a car with you for eight hours? 2322 01:51:48.439 --> 01:51:50.479 What does that mean? Does it mean I like you? 2323 01:51:50.680 --> 01:51:52.800 Doesn't mean I can get along with you? Can you? 2324 01:51:52.840 --> 01:51:54.960 Can you blend into a team room? Can you deal 2325 01:51:55.000 --> 01:51:57.760 with other folks? Can you do that and also keep 2326 01:51:57.800 --> 01:52:01.479 your moral compass? Because that's an ethical dilemma that exists 2327 01:52:01.640 --> 01:52:04.479 going with other tears and so our guys have done 2328 01:52:04.520 --> 01:52:07.039 a really good job of staying above afray, and I'm 2329 01:52:07.039 --> 01:52:07.760 really proud of them. 2330 01:52:07.760 --> 01:52:10.640 So wasn't that a question that beck With had had 2331 01:52:10.800 --> 01:52:12.680 was do I want to paddle upstream with the guy? 2332 01:52:12.800 --> 01:52:13.399 With this guy? 2333 01:52:13.760 --> 01:52:17.319 Could have been yeah, yeah, when we talk to Dan Coulson, yeah. 2334 01:52:17.239 --> 01:52:20.119 Beck With, Uh, that's a whole other story. 2335 01:52:20.239 --> 01:52:23.720 Yeah, But that's but that's important, right in the sense 2336 01:52:23.760 --> 01:52:29.840 of outside of this person being a high performer, Like 2337 01:52:31.239 --> 01:52:34.199 if it's just if it's just he and I out 2338 01:52:34.199 --> 01:52:35.439 there for three days, I. 2339 01:52:35.399 --> 01:52:37.800 Don't care how fast you run. I don't I don't 2340 01:52:37.800 --> 01:52:40.800 care how much weight you can lift. I want you 2341 01:52:40.800 --> 01:52:42.560 to be able to carry your own weight. But I 2342 01:52:42.560 --> 01:52:45.199 also want you to make good decisions understress. And so 2343 01:52:45.720 --> 01:52:48.000 that's not very it's it's a hard thing to tease out. 2344 01:52:48.159 --> 01:52:51.600 And so we we would have psychologists in their non 2345 01:52:51.680 --> 01:52:54.319 stop with us looking at our bias, right, because I 2346 01:52:54.359 --> 01:52:56.880 have bias, and so if I'm hiring somebody, I want 2347 01:52:56.960 --> 01:52:58.800 some probably to look like me, you know what I mean. 2348 01:52:59.039 --> 01:53:00.399 And you probably do the same thing, and you're like, 2349 01:53:00.680 --> 01:53:02.600 hey man, he's you know, he's a puss, Like he's 2350 01:53:02.600 --> 01:53:05.880 not like me, And so you're going to basically dismiss 2351 01:53:05.920 --> 01:53:08.399 that guy, or if you're an extrovert, he's an introvert, 2352 01:53:08.560 --> 01:53:11.600 like he can't be like me. Yeah, And what we 2353 01:53:11.640 --> 01:53:15.199 realized was is that, you know, when we talk about 2354 01:53:15.199 --> 01:53:17.800 diversity in the military and people roll their eyes at 2355 01:53:17.840 --> 01:53:23.039 it because it's been it's been miscategorized, it's diversity of thought. 2356 01:53:23.760 --> 01:53:25.800 And we want people to think differently and can solve 2357 01:53:25.840 --> 01:53:29.279 problems differently, differently than me because it makes me stronger, right, 2358 01:53:29.720 --> 01:53:31.680 And so if we can do that as an organization, 2359 01:53:32.159 --> 01:53:34.720 you can be successful. And all of the units are 2360 01:53:35.159 --> 01:53:38.720 kind of changing their selection models to tease these things out. 2361 01:53:40.239 --> 01:53:42.760 You know, back in the you know, eighties and nineties, 2362 01:53:43.000 --> 01:53:45.000 it was like how fast can you run? How good 2363 01:53:45.079 --> 01:53:47.960 can you shoot? We need more than that now, and 2364 01:53:48.000 --> 01:53:49.600 we need guys that can operate in their own And 2365 01:53:49.680 --> 01:53:55.239 so I think the soft operators of today are far 2366 01:53:55.359 --> 01:53:58.399 superior than of my generation. And I think that's fair 2367 01:53:58.439 --> 01:54:01.079 to say because I am that. You know, I think 2368 01:54:01.119 --> 01:54:03.800 we were pretty good and we're pretty damn hardy because 2369 01:54:03.840 --> 01:54:07.560 we did a lot of combat. But were we prepared. 2370 01:54:07.640 --> 01:54:10.920 I don't think we were. I wasn't prepared. We prepared 2371 01:54:10.920 --> 01:54:13.119 these guys because we looked at all the gaps in 2372 01:54:13.239 --> 01:54:15.720 our lives and our careers, and we said, we're going 2373 01:54:15.800 --> 01:54:17.920 to fill those in with training, and we're fill us 2374 01:54:17.920 --> 01:54:20.880 in with experience. And so you know, when guys get 2375 01:54:20.920 --> 01:54:23.720 selected to be Green Toy instructors, there are guys that 2376 01:54:23.760 --> 01:54:25.640 are combat hardened dudes that can come in there and 2377 01:54:25.680 --> 01:54:27.760 sit down with you. Go listen, dude, this is why 2378 01:54:27.760 --> 01:54:29.800 you're messing up. And this is what you need to change. 2379 01:54:30.159 --> 01:54:31.960 If you're a combat con troubler, here's what you need 2380 01:54:32.000 --> 01:54:34.079 to think about when you run a stack, and here's 2381 01:54:34.119 --> 01:54:35.479 why you have to think about it this way. If 2382 01:54:35.479 --> 01:54:37.560 you're a PJ, this is why you can't do medicine 2383 01:54:37.560 --> 01:54:39.199 this way. This is why you're gonna get someone killed. 2384 01:54:39.840 --> 01:54:43.279 And we finally finally have the experience to sit there 2385 01:54:43.279 --> 01:54:47.239 and say that very you know, emphatically and with a 2386 01:54:47.439 --> 01:54:50.720 position of authority, which we didn't have in the nineties. 2387 01:54:50.840 --> 01:54:53.199 So when I went through sock them, there was a 2388 01:54:53.239 --> 01:54:55.479 bunch of guys never went to combat. Right they're telling 2389 01:54:55.479 --> 01:54:57.720 me about how to treat a casually. They never treated casually. 2390 01:54:57.880 --> 01:55:00.239 Right now, when I go through soft miss with it 2391 01:55:00.319 --> 01:55:02.840 ragio medic and he's saying, hey, Chad, you're messing this up. 2392 01:55:02.960 --> 01:55:05.359 I'm like, holy crap, and knows what he's talking about, right, right, 2393 01:55:05.399 --> 01:55:08.680 I'm gonna listen to him, right, And so I think 2394 01:55:08.680 --> 01:55:12.000 that's a pretty important distinction. But here, here's the butt 2395 01:55:12.159 --> 01:55:15.119 is that we're losing it, and we're losing it today 2396 01:55:15.600 --> 01:55:17.600 because all senior guys are getting out and leaving because 2397 01:55:17.600 --> 01:55:21.600 they're pissed off. Right, And you're gonna have an atrophy 2398 01:55:21.640 --> 01:55:24.000 of experience, and the next fight is gonna be way 2399 01:55:24.039 --> 01:55:25.960 harder than the g WAT Right, It's gonna be ten 2400 01:55:26.000 --> 01:55:28.600 times harder than what we did in Afghanistan Iraq. When 2401 01:55:28.600 --> 01:55:31.199 we're talking about great power competition, guys fight with nods 2402 01:55:31.199 --> 01:55:34.560 and lasers and aircraft overhead. Dude, you have to be 2403 01:55:34.600 --> 01:55:38.840 the best. And you know technology will tip the scale 2404 01:55:39.159 --> 01:55:41.399 to a certain extent, we still have to be a 2405 01:55:41.479 --> 01:55:44.079 very confident operator that knows how to make good decisions 2406 01:55:44.079 --> 01:55:44.600 and stress. 2407 01:55:45.039 --> 01:55:48.960 Is there any way in your opinion to not lose 2408 01:55:49.000 --> 01:55:50.560 it because we lost it after War two. 2409 01:55:52.760 --> 01:55:55.319 It's already it's already been lost. And so you know, 2410 01:55:55.399 --> 01:55:57.359 every service will tell you that I talked to see 2411 01:55:57.399 --> 01:55:59.319 a lot of time to say the same thing. And 2412 01:56:00.680 --> 01:56:03.920 we're losing it, and we're pushing people out because we 2413 01:56:03.960 --> 01:56:07.439 want people to comply. Right. I know we're not getting 2414 01:56:07.479 --> 01:56:10.600 political in this, but there is there is an element 2415 01:56:10.720 --> 01:56:12.680 of like, hey, you need to play ball or you 2416 01:56:12.680 --> 01:56:14.800 need to leave. And so a lot of people are leaving. 2417 01:56:14.960 --> 01:56:17.520 They don't want to play ball like that. It's incongruent 2418 01:56:17.560 --> 01:56:20.960 with their values. And so you have this, you know, 2419 01:56:21.800 --> 01:56:24.600 in in industry they call it what the Great resignation 2420 01:56:24.880 --> 01:56:28.760 and people just you know, or people silently quitting. You 2421 01:56:28.800 --> 01:56:31.399 have that in soft too. People are leaving. And so 2422 01:56:31.840 --> 01:56:34.640 who stays behind? You know, who stays in the senior positions. 2423 01:56:34.760 --> 01:56:36.960 It's the people that you really want to be senior 2424 01:56:37.000 --> 01:56:39.560 guys to beat their chest, and not all of them, 2425 01:56:39.560 --> 01:56:41.399 that's that's not an absolute. 2426 01:56:41.039 --> 01:56:44.760 Sure, But it's the people who enjoy who don't mind 2427 01:56:44.760 --> 01:56:48.359 the political the political game that that happens at that senior. 2428 01:56:48.199 --> 01:56:49.760 I never wanted to be in a nine. When I 2429 01:56:49.800 --> 01:56:51.640 got it, I was like, oh crap, I make a 2430 01:56:51.680 --> 01:56:54.399 little bit more money, not a lot, but I got 2431 01:56:54.439 --> 01:56:57.079 to be a good e nine. And but if your 2432 01:56:57.079 --> 01:57:00.880 motivation is to have more stripes or all those things, 2433 01:57:01.359 --> 01:57:03.479 you're you're the wrong guy. And so how do you, 2434 01:57:03.680 --> 01:57:06.239 how do you suss that out? That's a that's a 2435 01:57:06.279 --> 01:57:08.319 hard question to answer. I don't have the answer. 2436 01:57:08.520 --> 01:57:12.079 You got a questions for Chad, Yeah, we do, and 2437 01:57:12.319 --> 01:57:14.239 just out of curious before we get to the questions, 2438 01:57:14.279 --> 01:57:18.439 like you had this real sort of breadth of experience 2439 01:57:18.479 --> 01:57:22.039 because taking somebody that's a shooter and a medic and 2440 01:57:22.079 --> 01:57:24.840 then all the ancillary skills, but also putting them into 2441 01:57:25.359 --> 01:57:30.439 more of an intel oriented like the you know, like 2442 01:57:30.680 --> 01:57:34.600 the OPE and O p B, which requires tradecraft and 2443 01:57:34.840 --> 01:57:38.000 is more of a thinking man's game. As supposed as that, 2444 01:57:38.159 --> 01:57:43.000 that's very fluid in a lot of ways. Can you 2445 01:57:43.039 --> 01:57:46.239 select people that or do you try to select people 2446 01:57:46.239 --> 01:57:48.800 that encompass all that or do you recognize that some 2447 01:57:48.840 --> 01:57:50.560 people are going to be good at certain things. 2448 01:57:50.359 --> 01:57:54.760 For that mission? Yes, I mean I'm like in Green Team. Well, 2449 01:57:54.840 --> 01:57:57.399 yet we have we've we've found guys like holy Craft, 2450 01:57:57.439 --> 01:58:00.600 that's the guy for this job. Yeah, okay, And we 2451 01:58:00.760 --> 01:58:02.840 pulled guys straight from Green Team. They've never done the 2452 01:58:02.880 --> 01:58:05.159 salt side. They went straight to the other side because 2453 01:58:05.159 --> 01:58:09.880 they're just that they're super you know, cerebral, you know, 2454 01:58:10.039 --> 01:58:13.239 super talented. But you know, maybe they went to a 2455 01:58:13.279 --> 01:58:16.560 school and got an engineering degree, and they might be 2456 01:58:16.600 --> 01:58:18.800 too smart for the job. They're about to go do right, 2457 01:58:18.840 --> 01:58:21.119 and we're like, yeah, guy, listen, I get it. You 2458 01:58:21.159 --> 01:58:23.079 want to go run again, you probably need to go 2459 01:58:23.119 --> 01:58:25.119 do this right. And so that exists. 2460 01:58:25.319 --> 01:58:28.840 Yeah, that's cool that they're recognizing that so early on. Yeah, 2461 01:58:29.359 --> 01:58:31.520 because yeah, I mean, as you alluded to, I mean, 2462 01:58:31.640 --> 01:58:35.119 when I left the military in twenty ten, the guys 2463 01:58:35.119 --> 01:58:38.960 who had engineering degrees, who had I mean everyone, they 2464 01:58:38.960 --> 01:58:41.920 were all getting out, you know, guys who had opportunities 2465 01:58:41.960 --> 01:58:43.840 to get a full ride to med school, Guys who 2466 01:58:43.880 --> 01:58:45.880 had putting in flight packets. 2467 01:58:45.880 --> 01:58:48.680 I mean, all kinds of stuff happening. So innovation is 2468 01:58:48.720 --> 01:58:50.760 a big topic is brought up in the military all time. 2469 01:58:51.319 --> 01:58:53.399 And the folks that are like innovators and the folks 2470 01:58:53.399 --> 01:58:55.600 that think that way usually get out after their first 2471 01:58:55.640 --> 01:58:59.000 and listening because they're soill frustrated, right, yeah, And that's 2472 01:58:59.039 --> 01:59:00.680 the folks that we need to they and for two 2473 01:59:00.720 --> 01:59:04.800 enlistments to change the world. Right. So it just it's 2474 01:59:04.880 --> 01:59:06.520 the weird di echonomy of the military. 2475 01:59:06.760 --> 01:59:11.960 And it's interesting too because the military resists innovation so hard. 2476 01:59:12.199 --> 01:59:15.640 Well, they don't like failure, they like innovation because it sells. 2477 01:59:15.720 --> 01:59:19.399 But failure is incongruent with what you know, the model 2478 01:59:19.439 --> 01:59:22.960 of success, and so you have to accept failure to 2479 01:59:22.960 --> 01:59:25.920 have innovation. You can't have one with you the other. Yeah, 2480 01:59:25.960 --> 01:59:27.520 you can't have Oh we're going to innovate, but we 2481 01:59:27.520 --> 01:59:29.640 always have to be successful, like you never. 2482 01:59:29.640 --> 01:59:33.319 Get the zero fail or risk aversion. 2483 01:59:34.359 --> 01:59:37.039 And so I understand that now on the outside, now 2484 01:59:37.039 --> 01:59:39.920 that I'm in industry, that you know, all the successful 2485 01:59:39.920 --> 01:59:42.520 tech companies are taking a lot of risk and failing 2486 01:59:43.159 --> 01:59:45.279 and they're going to find success because they're failing so 2487 01:59:45.359 --> 01:59:46.680 much r Right, they're learning from it. 2488 01:59:46.720 --> 01:59:50.560 Right, Yeah, learnt a product and find out that it 2489 01:59:50.560 --> 01:59:52.039 doesn't do what they thought it was going to do, 2490 01:59:52.279 --> 01:59:54.159 but it appeals to a different market that they never 2491 01:59:54.199 --> 01:59:58.920 even imagined. Yeah, it's very interesting. Okay, let's get to 2492 01:59:58.960 --> 02:00:05.520 these questions here. Uh, Anthony, thank you very much. What 2493 02:00:05.560 --> 02:00:11.119 has been your experience is working with soft tax Peeh, 2494 02:00:11.199 --> 02:00:14.000 what's your take on the restructuring for tech pe moving 2495 02:00:14.079 --> 02:00:17.720 forward strike teams, reconteams and if you can also lead 2496 02:00:17.720 --> 02:00:19.239 off with Thomas, what tac P is. 2497 02:00:19.560 --> 02:00:23.079 So tac P is Terminal Air Control Party and they're 2498 02:00:23.119 --> 02:00:25.560 basically the old school guys you used to call you know, 2499 02:00:25.720 --> 02:00:28.840 naval gunfire and also you know basically sort of you know, 2500 02:00:29.000 --> 02:00:31.880 uh the mission that CCTs do tech piece did for 2501 02:00:31.880 --> 02:00:35.600 a long time, right, I love tech Piece. I love 2502 02:00:35.640 --> 02:00:37.800 tech Piece. You know some of my favorite j tax 2503 02:00:37.880 --> 02:00:39.840 or tech Piece. We had a lot of tech Piece 2504 02:00:39.880 --> 02:00:42.079 of the unit. We started bringing them on and they 2505 02:00:42.079 --> 02:00:47.600 were super super capable guys, their studs. So, you know, 2506 02:00:48.039 --> 02:00:51.439 the app socks going through a kind of a reshuffle. 2507 02:00:51.479 --> 02:00:54.359 They're trying to figure out their mission. I think allsoft is, 2508 02:00:54.439 --> 02:00:57.560 but specifically as SoC and I think a lot of 2509 02:00:57.600 --> 02:01:00.560 the legacy missions that were we know are going away, 2510 02:01:00.840 --> 02:01:04.279 and so who will survive this kind of change? I 2511 02:01:04.279 --> 02:01:07.800 don't know, that's beyond you know, but my my pay grade, 2512 02:01:07.800 --> 02:01:08.520 I don't have pay grade. 2513 02:01:08.560 --> 02:01:14.600 But are you attack p uh, They're potentially like on 2514 02:01:14.640 --> 02:01:15.319 the cutting board. 2515 02:01:15.840 --> 02:01:17.600 No, I'm not saying that, but I will say that 2516 02:01:17.640 --> 02:01:20.560 the GAT model of like you know, calling cast is 2517 02:01:20.600 --> 02:01:23.039 probably going to go away for the Great Power Competition 2518 02:01:23.520 --> 02:01:25.640 because it's not gonna be a guys in the trenches, 2519 02:01:26.359 --> 02:01:29.920 you know, on a on satcom, you know, calling and strikes. 2520 02:01:30.800 --> 02:01:34.880 It's going to be technology empowering, you know, missions deeper 2521 02:01:34.920 --> 02:01:38.359 in targets and illuminating them and then making decisions with 2522 02:01:38.439 --> 02:01:43.640 semi autonomy and autonomy, and so if soft doesn't embrace that, 2523 02:01:44.279 --> 02:01:46.119 they're going to lose the next fight. That's I mean, 2524 02:01:46.199 --> 02:01:49.159 that's just the reality. Like, autonomy is a thing, and 2525 02:01:49.520 --> 02:01:52.319 you know, China is doing it very well, the US 2526 02:01:52.439 --> 02:01:54.960 is doing it, and the the military is trying to 2527 02:01:55.000 --> 02:01:59.680 embrace it. But autonomy is scary and the opposite of 2528 02:01:59.760 --> 02:02:02.760 what we experienced, where you know, the Golden Hour is 2529 02:02:02.760 --> 02:02:03.880 going to be a thing of the past in a 2530 02:02:03.920 --> 02:02:04.319 lot of ways. 2531 02:02:04.359 --> 02:02:06.000 You're going to have to maintain a casualty out of 2532 02:02:06.039 --> 02:02:09.039 the field. You're not it's going to be contested. Airspace 2533 02:02:09.520 --> 02:02:11.560 comms are going to be unreliable, yeah. 2534 02:02:11.479 --> 02:02:14.680 And GPS denied. I mean you're talking about you know, fighting, 2535 02:02:15.119 --> 02:02:17.159 you know near peer We say it all the time. 2536 02:02:17.479 --> 02:02:19.199 What does that mean? That means the guy that you're 2537 02:02:19.239 --> 02:02:21.039 fighting has the same tech that you do. Right. We 2538 02:02:21.119 --> 02:02:24.359 fuck cavemen and got our asses kicked half the time, right, 2539 02:02:24.840 --> 02:02:27.039 And so we need to we always have to have 2540 02:02:27.039 --> 02:02:29.520 a competitive advantage we go into fighting, and so we 2541 02:02:29.600 --> 02:02:32.159 our competitive advantage in the past has been aircraft. It 2542 02:02:32.199 --> 02:02:35.399 has been and every service will tell you that is 2543 02:02:35.439 --> 02:02:38.520 tip the scale. Every single you know, engagement has been aircraft. 2544 02:02:39.039 --> 02:02:41.039 When things get too bad, guess what we're calling the 2545 02:02:41.039 --> 02:02:44.640 air force and they're gonna slam this this compound. Well, 2546 02:02:44.880 --> 02:02:46.680 if we can't do that, because those guys are in 2547 02:02:46.760 --> 02:02:49.439 air to air fight, how do you push through, right? 2548 02:02:49.479 --> 02:02:52.520 And And that's a really I don't know how to 2549 02:02:52.560 --> 02:02:53.079 answer that. 2550 02:02:53.239 --> 02:02:55.239 And particularly if we're looking at China, because not only 2551 02:02:55.279 --> 02:02:58.560 do they have close to the technology, they have all 2552 02:02:58.600 --> 02:03:02.079 the technology we have because there, because they're industrial, astmonage 2553 02:03:02.159 --> 02:03:08.680 is so great, you know, Jackson, thank you very much. 2554 02:03:09.479 --> 02:03:12.199 What do you make of APSTOC trying to become a 2555 02:03:12.239 --> 02:03:16.720 more unilateral force. Are you optimistic or hesitant on the transition? 2556 02:03:16.880 --> 02:03:21.079 And why? It depends. I mean, it depends who's in charge. 2557 02:03:21.479 --> 02:03:22.840 It depends on what they want to do with it. 2558 02:03:22.880 --> 02:03:27.039 And so what we shouldn't do is become a better mousetrap, 2559 02:03:27.279 --> 02:03:30.960 you know. So appstocks should basically play off their strengths. 2560 02:03:31.920 --> 02:03:36.520 You know, we are very capable in technical forces that 2561 02:03:36.640 --> 02:03:39.680 can you know, kind of multiply the battlefield. And so 2562 02:03:40.159 --> 02:03:43.000 if they you know, if they focus on those strengths 2563 02:03:43.039 --> 02:03:45.199 and they flip that into the next fight, they can 2564 02:03:45.199 --> 02:03:48.239 be very successful as a unilateral force if they try 2565 02:03:48.239 --> 02:03:50.720 to be a better assault for US, I mean, cool 2566 02:03:50.760 --> 02:03:51.199 man like. 2567 02:03:51.439 --> 02:03:55.000 And this sort of goes back to the question about 2568 02:03:55.560 --> 02:03:58.479 like the seals out there doing you know, the fo work, 2569 02:03:58.520 --> 02:04:01.279 the you know, the prep. 2570 02:04:01.479 --> 02:04:01.880 Is that. 2571 02:04:03.279 --> 02:04:07.039 Every mission was sexy, right, and everybody wants the money. 2572 02:04:07.079 --> 02:04:08.960 So when it was when it was the War on Drugs, 2573 02:04:09.199 --> 02:04:13.039 everybody got into counter narcotics. When it was the GAT, 2574 02:04:13.079 --> 02:04:16.359 everybody became a strike force, and then everybody started moving 2575 02:04:16.359 --> 02:04:20.520 into the intel the trade craft you know, everybody developed 2576 02:04:20.560 --> 02:04:24.720 even though they are units specified for that, everybody became 2577 02:04:25.239 --> 02:04:28.159 became the master of all. And is this sort of 2578 02:04:28.159 --> 02:04:30.159 what they're talking about with ass SoC that there are 2579 02:04:30.319 --> 02:04:34.600 people who think that okay, well shooting CQB shooting, like, 2580 02:04:34.680 --> 02:04:36.079 we can do that too, we can have our own 2581 02:04:36.119 --> 02:04:39.000 teams to do this. Or is it going a different direction. 2582 02:04:39.439 --> 02:04:42.359 So I personally don't think that we're going into that 2583 02:04:42.479 --> 02:04:45.640 kind of conflict. I don't think that's the thing. And 2584 02:04:45.920 --> 02:04:49.279 I think the Navy has been a pretty good, you 2585 02:04:49.319 --> 02:04:52.840 know kind of I guess weather vane for where they're going. 2586 02:04:53.279 --> 02:04:55.680 They're going away from some of those traittional missions, and 2587 02:04:55.760 --> 02:04:58.640 so is SF. You know, the SF teams are going 2588 02:04:58.680 --> 02:05:01.960 back to you know, and going back to their core skills, right, 2589 02:05:02.319 --> 02:05:05.439 the things that are the differentiators that they're really good at. 2590 02:05:05.640 --> 02:05:08.119 And you know, for a long time it was direct 2591 02:05:08.159 --> 02:05:11.000 action was sexy, like you just described, and everyone will 2592 02:05:11.039 --> 02:05:13.640 do direct action because that was kind of the bar 2593 02:05:13.760 --> 02:05:16.399 to pass, to be you know, the guy, the cool guy. Yeah, 2594 02:05:16.960 --> 02:05:20.319 and so now that we're transitioning, you know, SEF is saying, 2595 02:05:20.359 --> 02:05:22.439 holy crap, we need to go back to our core skills. 2596 02:05:22.520 --> 02:05:24.960 And they are the navies going back to diving and 2597 02:05:24.960 --> 02:05:26.079 go back to the maritime missions. 2598 02:05:26.119 --> 02:05:28.239 I've heard they have one of the NSW has one 2599 02:05:28.279 --> 02:05:31.039 of the probably the best drone program in UH in 2600 02:05:31.119 --> 02:05:31.800 special ops. 2601 02:05:31.840 --> 02:05:36.840 Now, see like water drowns your air drones both both. 2602 02:05:37.399 --> 02:05:40.840 Yeah, I mean well, I mean tech is empowering those things, 2603 02:05:40.880 --> 02:05:43.199 and there's a lot of autonomous you know, underwater vehicles 2604 02:05:43.199 --> 02:05:46.439 that are doing great things. Tech is a differentiator, and 2605 02:05:46.479 --> 02:05:48.560 so whoever can adopt early tech is going to be 2606 02:05:48.560 --> 02:05:51.039 successful in my opinion, And it's not just because the 2607 02:05:51.039 --> 02:05:53.680 position I'm in now, which hopefully we. 2608 02:05:53.680 --> 02:05:55.359 Talk about we will, we absolutely will. 2609 02:05:56.399 --> 02:05:59.239 But I think that you know, for AFT SoC they 2610 02:05:59.279 --> 02:06:01.600 have to find their way as I find what's unique 2611 02:06:01.640 --> 02:06:04.159 to them. You know, what, what aircraft do they have 2612 02:06:04.199 --> 02:06:08.399 that are very unique that they can employ. They're getting 2613 02:06:08.520 --> 02:06:10.039 rid of a lot of assets right now in a 2614 02:06:10.239 --> 02:06:12.159 SoC they're getting rid of a lot of C twenty 2615 02:06:12.159 --> 02:06:16.039 two is AC went thirties and so you know, some 2616 02:06:16.119 --> 02:06:18.439 of it's a forcing function to get to the next fight, 2617 02:06:19.760 --> 02:06:21.479 you know. So I don't know. I mean, that's probably 2618 02:06:21.479 --> 02:06:23.079 a better question to ask the seen owlers as. 2619 02:06:22.960 --> 02:06:27.560 SoC I hate to see the act go away. It 2620 02:06:27.840 --> 02:06:28.840 just makes me sad. 2621 02:06:28.600 --> 02:06:33.319 And ten and I mean a lot of leve atens. 2622 02:06:33.359 --> 02:06:35.720 If you're if you're a if you're a ground force, 2623 02:06:35.880 --> 02:06:37.920 you know how good the atens are and how important 2624 02:06:37.920 --> 02:06:38.199 they are. 2625 02:06:40.399 --> 02:06:42.920 Jackson, thanks again, uh As for Tier one. 2626 02:06:43.359 --> 02:06:46.399 How would you characterize the difference between the Army and 2627 02:06:46.439 --> 02:06:47.319 the Navy side. 2628 02:06:47.680 --> 02:06:50.039 Did you have a preference with working with one. 2629 02:06:50.640 --> 02:06:54.640 I think they're both amazing, right, you know, they're different, 2630 02:06:54.720 --> 02:06:57.640 they're super you know, in the early days, the Navy 2631 02:06:57.680 --> 02:06:59.920 was really good at making things happen, and the Army 2632 02:06:59.920 --> 02:07:05.199 was very very process driven. I think the Army adopted 2633 02:07:05.199 --> 02:07:07.319 a lot of the Navy's kind of nuances and they 2634 02:07:07.319 --> 02:07:12.880 became just as just as adaptive. I gotta be honest. 2635 02:07:12.960 --> 02:07:16.239 In the later years, it was really hard to differentiate 2636 02:07:16.279 --> 02:07:18.760 the two. They had specific capabilities. They did really well. 2637 02:07:19.159 --> 02:07:22.520 It was a maritime mission obviously in Navy. But the Army, dude, 2638 02:07:22.840 --> 02:07:28.199 they are I mean that unit for Bragg, they can 2639 02:07:28.239 --> 02:07:30.720 do any mission on their son and they could probably 2640 02:07:30.720 --> 02:07:33.880 do the maritime mission too if they wanted to. But no, 2641 02:07:34.239 --> 02:07:35.119 there's no favorite. 2642 02:07:36.600 --> 02:07:41.359 So you're saying that if the Navy learned basic patrolling, that. 2643 02:07:41.239 --> 02:07:45.039 They would they would right now. They could work up 2644 02:07:45.079 --> 02:07:48.000 too if they cared about it. It was just its priorities, right. 2645 02:07:49.079 --> 02:07:51.600 But but a lot of the Army guys, so the 2646 02:07:51.600 --> 02:07:54.920 the guys from that unit were either former Rangers or 2647 02:07:55.399 --> 02:07:59.239 SF so they had a very fundamental like infantry infantry 2648 02:07:59.279 --> 02:08:01.399 background they all, and so they understood that. It was 2649 02:08:01.479 --> 02:08:03.840 very intuitive to them. Right, maybe he's not man, It's 2650 02:08:03.840 --> 02:08:05.600 like maybe he's like hucke it. They're they're like the 2651 02:08:05.600 --> 02:08:08.520 full players are gonna throw hell Mary where you know. 2652 02:08:08.600 --> 02:08:10.279 The Army is like, okay, we can get it first 2653 02:08:10.279 --> 02:08:12.560 down by doing this right, names like nah, we're going 2654 02:08:12.600 --> 02:08:13.600 for touchdown, you know. 2655 02:08:16.279 --> 02:08:17.439 Ian, Thank you very much? 2656 02:08:17.760 --> 02:08:21.159 Oh, Dave, Now is your chance to ask the only 2657 02:08:22.199 --> 02:08:26.720 to ask about the only basic training you didn't go through. Uh, 2658 02:08:27.159 --> 02:08:29.039 what questions do you have about it? 2659 02:08:29.119 --> 02:08:31.560 I don't have any question. 2660 02:08:32.920 --> 02:08:36.039 Yeah, did you guys use exercise bikes. 2661 02:08:36.279 --> 02:08:38.600 In the Air Force and the Air Force now? No, 2662 02:08:38.840 --> 02:08:40.560 I wish they had them. It's been great. 2663 02:08:40.880 --> 02:08:42.840 That that was the only thing I missed, and apparently 2664 02:08:42.880 --> 02:08:43.439 I didn't miss it. 2665 02:08:43.600 --> 02:08:44.359 Exercise bikes. 2666 02:08:44.399 --> 02:08:48.600 No defend you defend you CQB. 2667 02:08:48.880 --> 02:08:52.560 So somebody with the fair baron Psykes, Kelly McCann, Carlos 2668 02:08:52.680 --> 02:08:57.359 Stari Heritage, thank you very much for the donation. Brendan 2669 02:08:57.479 --> 02:09:01.239 g great guest, great stories, best wishes to you all. 2670 02:09:01.439 --> 02:09:05.720 Be Thanks Brendan Graham, thank you very much. Thanks for 2671 02:09:05.760 --> 02:09:12.079 the great conversation. Thoughts on SWT now special reconnaissance and 2672 02:09:12.079 --> 02:09:13.000 what role they play. 2673 02:09:13.600 --> 02:09:18.439 Yeah, so this was formerly like the weather crew field 2674 02:09:18.479 --> 02:09:23.119 we had, which is you know, the combat weather guys. Yeah, 2675 02:09:23.880 --> 02:09:26.600 so they rebranded them as a special reconnaissance which I 2676 02:09:26.640 --> 02:09:29.640 think is right. That sounds it sounds better, way better. 2677 02:09:30.520 --> 02:09:33.560 The mission initially was like all over the map, is 2678 02:09:33.600 --> 02:09:35.439 like we're gonna do all these things. You have to 2679 02:09:35.439 --> 02:09:37.079 be specialized a couple of things, right, You have to 2680 02:09:37.119 --> 02:09:39.359 be good at a couple of things, and so it has 2681 02:09:39.520 --> 02:09:42.960 unlimited potential to be a really great career field. And 2682 02:09:44.039 --> 02:09:46.680 you know, we need it now because reconnaissance is more 2683 02:09:46.680 --> 02:09:50.199 important now than ever, and especially if you can overlay 2684 02:09:50.239 --> 02:09:54.680 technology into reconnaissance. And so I think it's you know, potentially, 2685 02:09:55.960 --> 02:09:59.560 it's a it's a great pathway. Obviously I'm biased because 2686 02:09:59.560 --> 02:10:04.600 I'm a PJ. So you know, let me just check 2687 02:10:04.760 --> 02:10:05.880 with that a diplomatic answer. 2688 02:10:06.000 --> 02:10:13.039 Yes, it was great, Isaac. The Air Force is said 2689 02:10:13.039 --> 02:10:16.199 to have the best tech. So does is spec Ops. 2690 02:10:15.960 --> 02:10:18.159 Have more advanced tech than other units? 2691 02:10:18.439 --> 02:10:20.359 Does spec Ops or Air Force? 2692 02:10:20.479 --> 02:10:23.079 The Air Force Special Operations? 2693 02:10:24.520 --> 02:10:27.239 Man? No, I don't think they do. I think the 2694 02:10:27.319 --> 02:10:31.920 Navy has been really early adopters technology. The Army is 2695 02:10:31.960 --> 02:10:34.720 really keen on us and it's the really ahead on that. 2696 02:10:35.199 --> 02:10:37.159 And the Air Force again is going through this kind 2697 02:10:37.199 --> 02:10:39.239 of like the teenage years of who am I? And 2698 02:10:39.239 --> 02:10:40.680 they're looking in the mirror like what do I want 2699 02:10:40.680 --> 02:10:43.199 to be? Do I need this? Or do need this? 2700 02:10:43.399 --> 02:10:46.680 And so the Navy knows, hey, I need these these 2701 02:10:47.079 --> 02:10:49.960 technology to empower our maritime platforms. So they're going to 2702 02:10:50.000 --> 02:10:52.760 do it. And the Army is the same way if 2703 02:10:52.800 --> 02:10:55.560 you look at some of the drone racing stuff they're doing. 2704 02:10:56.199 --> 02:10:58.640 The Army is taking advantage of that big time, and 2705 02:10:58.680 --> 02:11:00.960 they're bringing industry in Mayby. It's doing the same thing. 2706 02:11:01.520 --> 02:11:03.880 The air Force is kind of like, you know, you 2707 02:11:03.880 --> 02:11:07.640 have you have airplanes, right, So here's the dichotomy with 2708 02:11:07.680 --> 02:11:10.600 air force. When you look at the Army and special forces, 2709 02:11:10.680 --> 02:11:13.600 it's all about special forces right with as Socket's not 2710 02:11:13.880 --> 02:11:17.159 it's about aircraft, and they have really small cutout which 2711 02:11:17.199 --> 02:11:20.760 is special warfare, which is you know, air Force, air. 2712 02:11:20.640 --> 02:11:23.199 Force, it's all about like strategic bombers and fighter jets. 2713 02:11:23.880 --> 02:11:26.920 Within as Sock it's it's CB twenty two and like 2714 02:11:26.960 --> 02:11:28.960 doing infox foo. But then you have these guys over 2715 02:11:28.960 --> 02:11:30.520 here they're like, hey, we want to change the world, 2716 02:11:30.520 --> 02:11:32.720 and they're like, got it, guys. But the money goes 2717 02:11:32.760 --> 02:11:36.840 over here, right, And so NSW is paying to seals 2718 02:11:36.880 --> 02:11:38.560 and they have these maritime programs that you have a 2719 02:11:38.600 --> 02:11:41.199 lot of money, but it's to empower the seals, right. 2720 02:11:41.640 --> 02:11:45.079 And so aspstock's the only one that's like, well, we 2721 02:11:45.199 --> 02:11:47.279 do all this stuff for the other services, and then 2722 02:11:47.279 --> 02:11:49.039 we have this small component of folks that do really 2723 02:11:49.079 --> 02:11:51.680 special stuff, but we also want to help these people, 2724 02:11:51.840 --> 02:11:55.239 and so it will never reach their potential because they're 2725 02:11:55.279 --> 02:11:58.640 always looking outwards instead of going how do we empower this? Right? 2726 02:11:58.760 --> 02:12:02.560 And so the first question, how do you do it unilateral? Well, 2727 02:12:02.720 --> 02:12:05.560 you have to stop being a service provider, right and 2728 02:12:05.640 --> 02:12:07.720 start saying what do we want to do? And if 2729 02:12:07.760 --> 02:12:09.880 you don't want to do anything, that's fine too, but 2730 02:12:09.960 --> 02:12:12.520 if you do, you have to do an all stop 2731 02:12:12.840 --> 02:12:15.880 and say, listen, these TV twenty two's exist for these 2732 02:12:15.920 --> 02:12:19.239 guys and whatever their mission set's going to dictate. And 2733 02:12:19.239 --> 02:12:22.279 and that's a it's going to take having some special 2734 02:12:22.319 --> 02:12:25.520 tactics guys in senior positions, which we do. The A 2735 02:12:25.640 --> 02:12:27.479 three of ass socc right now is as a former 2736 02:12:27.479 --> 02:12:30.880 comic controller as a comic controller general. And that's a 2737 02:12:30.880 --> 02:12:33.720 big deal for us, you know, isn't rappen for so. 2738 02:12:35.880 --> 02:12:38.560 And so that I mean, that makes total sense because 2739 02:12:39.319 --> 02:12:43.039 you guys have been force multipliers, you've been adjuncts in 2740 02:12:43.079 --> 02:12:46.840 a way to the other you know, to the other services, 2741 02:12:47.600 --> 02:12:51.640 and without that identity of where we're the tip of 2742 02:12:51.640 --> 02:12:54.239 the spear, right, not we're part of the tip of 2743 02:12:54.239 --> 02:12:54.600 the spear. 2744 02:12:54.920 --> 02:12:57.000 Yeah, I mean, it's gonna be they're gonna have to 2745 02:12:57.039 --> 02:12:59.399 decide what they want to be. It's not my decision 2746 02:12:59.439 --> 02:13:02.079 on right to tell you my experiences, and my experience 2747 02:13:02.239 --> 02:13:06.359 was empowering those other tiers, right, you know, do I 2748 02:13:06.359 --> 02:13:08.520 think that I was capable to do other things? Absolutely, 2749 02:13:08.520 --> 02:13:11.000 but it wasn't my job. And if you could. 2750 02:13:10.840 --> 02:13:15.600 Wave a magic wand and make sts what you wanted 2751 02:13:15.600 --> 02:13:18.880 it to be, oh, I don't know. 2752 02:13:20.279 --> 02:13:22.640 Yeah, that's a tough one. That's a tough thing to 2753 02:13:22.680 --> 02:13:26.239 answer right now, because you know I have again bias 2754 02:13:26.439 --> 02:13:29.079 is included here and my experience and so. 2755 02:13:29.720 --> 02:13:32.359 And that's fair. I mean, I'm asking you with your 2756 02:13:32.359 --> 02:13:33.439 bias and your experience. 2757 02:13:33.479 --> 02:13:36.600 It's it's a numbers game, right, and so special Forces 2758 02:13:36.680 --> 02:13:39.119 I was doing the numbers. I think it's like eight thousand. 2759 02:13:39.279 --> 02:13:39.760 It's a lot. 2760 02:13:39.880 --> 02:13:42.840 Yeah, I mean you look at the eighty second has 2761 02:13:42.920 --> 02:13:46.479 less folks and specialize in the range of Rettalian. So 2762 02:13:47.680 --> 02:13:50.159 the question I always had was what makes you special? 2763 02:13:50.960 --> 02:13:55.520 And you know, I asked folks, I asked this, and 2764 02:13:55.520 --> 02:13:58.920 when I was going through the what is it called 2765 02:13:59.039 --> 02:14:01.520 just soft sea which is a special operations senior listed thing? 2766 02:14:02.079 --> 02:14:05.520 And so what what makes special operations special? Is it numbers? 2767 02:14:05.640 --> 02:14:08.960 Is it technology? Is it mission? And no one can 2768 02:14:09.039 --> 02:14:12.920 really answer the question because when special operations are soft, 2769 02:14:13.439 --> 02:14:15.680 he has a lot of people. And then within uh, 2770 02:14:16.000 --> 02:14:19.199 you know, the Green Break community, there's there's thousands of them, 2771 02:14:19.680 --> 02:14:22.039 and not all of them are like, you know, doing 2772 02:14:22.079 --> 02:14:24.720 everything right. There's like guys are specialists in this and this. 2773 02:14:25.439 --> 02:14:28.439 Within nsb's a little bit smaller, but still thousands of them. 2774 02:14:28.720 --> 02:14:31.800 In our career full there's you know, there's maybe hundreds, 2775 02:14:31.960 --> 02:14:34.800 and so does that make you special? I don't know. 2776 02:14:34.840 --> 02:14:36.720 I don't know if it does. It's just a numbers game. 2777 02:14:36.800 --> 02:14:40.800 It's it sounds cooler, but how do you get to 2778 02:14:40.800 --> 02:14:43.119 that point? I don't think you do it without numbers? 2779 02:14:43.159 --> 02:14:46.000 And so if you have a Green Break community you 2780 02:14:46.000 --> 02:14:48.039 want to go and do ex mission, you can reorient 2781 02:14:48.199 --> 02:14:50.079 all those people to go do that with the training 2782 02:14:50.119 --> 02:14:53.199 and money. That's a tough question. 2783 02:14:53.760 --> 02:14:56.000 So let's hear about your transition. 2784 02:14:56.079 --> 02:14:59.640 You finally after running and gun in and suffering through 2785 02:14:59.640 --> 02:15:02.800 admitt and then getting to be you know, senior enlisted 2786 02:15:02.840 --> 02:15:03.840 in the squadron. 2787 02:15:03.880 --> 02:15:06.359 I mean you kind of had the career, you know, 2788 02:15:06.520 --> 02:15:07.920 from a career. 2789 02:15:07.880 --> 02:15:08.920 I mean you had the career. 2790 02:15:08.920 --> 02:15:11.079 You went from twenty one to forty one or twenty 2791 02:15:11.079 --> 02:15:11.880 two to forty one. 2792 02:15:12.520 --> 02:15:13.239 From then, you. 2793 02:15:13.319 --> 02:15:15.640 Did it all most. I mean you did it all. 2794 02:15:15.760 --> 02:15:17.720 You did it a lot. Yeah, and you do it all. 2795 02:15:17.800 --> 02:15:21.439 You talked more, you talked about, you know, the compartmentalization 2796 02:15:21.960 --> 02:15:24.520 driving on in all of this, and then you finally 2797 02:15:24.560 --> 02:15:25.840 hit that moment of retirement. 2798 02:15:25.960 --> 02:15:27.039 I mean, what was that like for you? 2799 02:15:27.119 --> 02:15:32.319 Transition sucked. I took a job. I was the director 2800 02:15:32.359 --> 02:15:36.000 of an innovation institute for a year, and uh, I 2801 02:15:36.079 --> 02:15:38.720 learned about hiring and firing, learned about dealing with, you know, 2802 02:15:38.760 --> 02:15:43.239 people that weren't like me. It was a transition and 2803 02:15:43.319 --> 02:15:47.119 I was super depressed. You know. We talked about before 2804 02:15:47.119 --> 02:15:51.119 we started this is that purpose is really important and 2805 02:15:51.159 --> 02:15:53.279 you have it inherently when you're in the military. You 2806 02:15:53.359 --> 02:15:56.039 don't have them when you get out. And it's a reality. 2807 02:15:56.279 --> 02:16:00.640 So just brace yourself for that. And uh, I did 2808 02:16:00.640 --> 02:16:04.159 that job for a year. What I what I did 2809 02:16:04.199 --> 02:16:07.479 do was I got a I got a call and 2810 02:16:07.520 --> 02:16:10.600 there was an opportunity to go help some orphans from 2811 02:16:10.680 --> 02:16:13.600 Ukraine to Poland. Oh wow, And I was like a man. 2812 02:16:14.439 --> 02:16:16.119 And so I went to my boss and I was like, hey, man, 2813 02:16:16.159 --> 02:16:17.439 I was like, I need to take some unpaid leave. 2814 02:16:17.479 --> 02:16:21.680 I'm gonna do this, and they were good enough to say, yeah, okay. 2815 02:16:22.039 --> 02:16:23.640 I think they knew I was probably gonna quit. They 2816 02:16:23.680 --> 02:16:25.800 didn't let me do it. But I thought I was 2817 02:16:25.800 --> 02:16:28.920 gonna fill my bucket, you know, in my bucket and 2818 02:16:29.520 --> 02:16:31.000 give me a sense of purpose. And I went out 2819 02:16:31.000 --> 02:16:34.040 there and did it, and it didn't fill anything. And 2820 02:16:34.079 --> 02:16:36.680 I came back home and I ended up resigning after 2821 02:16:36.760 --> 02:16:38.360 a month. I was like, I can't do this anymore. 2822 02:16:38.760 --> 02:16:40.360 And I told my wife. I was like, I just 2823 02:16:40.399 --> 02:16:43.280 need to maybe go fishing every day and just be retired. 2824 02:16:43.600 --> 02:16:49.239 And I was retired for six hours. Buddy buddy of 2825 02:16:49.319 --> 02:16:51.639 mine from a big company called me. He's like chat, 2826 02:16:51.680 --> 02:16:54.200 he goes, you need to talk to these guys from California. 2827 02:16:54.520 --> 02:16:57.399 And I'm like, okay. I was on my back porch. 2828 02:16:57.440 --> 02:17:00.680 I think I was probably drinking bourbon and these guys 2829 02:17:00.680 --> 02:17:03.559 and they're like, hey man, you know, just bros from 2830 02:17:03.600 --> 02:17:06.520 you know, California, and like we're gonna build a low 2831 02:17:06.600 --> 02:17:11.879 cost cruise missile. I'm like, okay, I didn't expect that. 2832 02:17:11.959 --> 02:17:13.799 I was like, all right, so what what does that mean? 2833 02:17:13.959 --> 02:17:16.600 How do you do low cost? They told me, you know, 2834 02:17:16.639 --> 02:17:19.280 their designs like modular like Lego set for the cruise 2835 02:17:19.360 --> 02:17:24.520 missile at a manufacturer. I'm like, I'm in And so 2836 02:17:24.559 --> 02:17:26.719 I joined this team and it was three of us, 2837 02:17:27.440 --> 02:17:29.600 and it was the closest thing I felt. You know, 2838 02:17:29.719 --> 02:17:31.799 this is called teamhouse. It was the closest thing I 2839 02:17:31.799 --> 02:17:34.959 felt to being back into a team post military, because 2840 02:17:35.000 --> 02:17:38.719 it was guys that I identify with, that I get along with, 2841 02:17:39.319 --> 02:17:43.719 and that we're oriented towards a purpose with. And you know, 2842 02:17:43.760 --> 02:17:46.520 we started this company, Firestorm Labs, and we've been doing 2843 02:17:46.520 --> 02:17:50.399 it for you know, six seven months now, building a 2844 02:17:50.440 --> 02:17:53.680 modular US and it's the closest thing I found to 2845 02:17:53.799 --> 02:17:56.360 get into what you know, we've been describing this whole time. 2846 02:17:57.200 --> 02:18:00.319 And I needed it, man, you know, because we talk 2847 02:18:00.360 --> 02:18:03.200 about purpose. You know, purpose is really hard to find 2848 02:18:03.239 --> 02:18:06.200 the backside. And so the guys that get out, you know, 2849 02:18:06.600 --> 02:18:08.600 I think this is a good opportunity to talk about 2850 02:18:08.719 --> 02:18:14.000 is that it's not the same and you will be isolated, 2851 02:18:14.040 --> 02:18:16.879 you're on your own. It's it's never gonna be cool again. 2852 02:18:17.319 --> 02:18:20.120 And you have to warn that career. And so once 2853 02:18:20.159 --> 02:18:22.079 you move on from it, you can like grow and 2854 02:18:22.079 --> 02:18:25.520 and and be better. But for me, you know, join 2855 02:18:25.760 --> 02:18:28.319 the team that I'm on now with Firestorm, which is 2856 02:18:28.360 --> 02:18:32.120 the company. It's been awesome, and so I've taken a 2857 02:18:32.159 --> 02:18:35.879 lot of other jobs. I've got our you know, you 2858 02:18:35.920 --> 02:18:38.680 know companies that I work with. One is Lifeline Rescue Tools, 2859 02:18:38.680 --> 02:18:43.000 which is basically, uh, it's a think about glass break 2860 02:18:43.159 --> 02:18:46.760 you know, times thousand cuts through lemonade glass, you know, 2861 02:18:46.799 --> 02:18:48.680 first responder stuff. I'm like, that's great, I get you 2862 02:18:48.680 --> 02:18:51.879 behind that product. Development's do it. And the other ones. 2863 02:18:51.959 --> 02:18:53.799 Fox Trot three is a company we started with a 2864 02:18:53.799 --> 02:18:58.440 bunch of operators Faith, Family Freedom and so that's basically 2865 02:18:58.479 --> 02:19:01.360 family values getting back to make that cool again in America. 2866 02:19:02.120 --> 02:19:04.440 And so things that can wrap my brain around and 2867 02:19:04.559 --> 02:19:09.479 orient and and really push hard is all I need. 2868 02:19:09.680 --> 02:19:12.200 And so because you're not part of a team anymore, 2869 02:19:12.360 --> 02:19:15.879 and you get out, no one, no one cares. Yeah, 2870 02:19:15.959 --> 02:19:18.079 like you're on your own. Yeah you guys know that, 2871 02:19:18.120 --> 02:19:20.799 I mean, yeah, yeah, you're forgotten very quickly. 2872 02:19:20.920 --> 02:19:23.079 So I've tried, I've tried to describe the people you 2873 02:19:23.120 --> 02:19:26.479 know that you could be, you know, the sergeant major 2874 02:19:26.520 --> 02:19:29.520 of Delta Force, total badass dude you get out to 2875 02:19:29.719 --> 02:19:32.479 hire walking around the streets out here. It's not that 2876 02:19:32.520 --> 02:19:35.159 people don't like you, that they're anti military or something. 2877 02:19:35.319 --> 02:19:39.000 But you say I was a command sergeant major of this, 2878 02:19:39.159 --> 02:19:40.959 you know, jaysck unit, they're gonna look at you. 2879 02:19:41.000 --> 02:19:45.120 I mean, what is jay sock? What is command sergeant major? 2880 02:19:45.239 --> 02:19:47.440 And it's not that it's not that the experiences aren't meaningful. 2881 02:19:47.479 --> 02:19:50.079 They're certainly right, right, and they're they're meaningful in in 2882 02:19:50.120 --> 02:19:52.760 your brotherhood, right. And so if we sit around and 2883 02:19:52.760 --> 02:19:55.239 we drink bourbon together, like we can have shared experiences 2884 02:19:55.280 --> 02:19:58.920 and we have the kind of common bona fides, right, Yeah, 2885 02:19:59.399 --> 02:20:02.159 but you have to get over it and you have 2886 02:20:02.239 --> 02:20:05.479 to warn it and move past. Yeah, And if you don't, 2887 02:20:06.040 --> 02:20:08.200 you're not gonna be successful next life. You're stuck in them. 2888 02:20:08.440 --> 02:20:09.959 But if you say, listen, I had a great run. 2889 02:20:10.079 --> 02:20:12.159 It was a cool experience and did some cool stuff 2890 02:20:12.319 --> 02:20:16.079 and now moving on. And you know, I do these 2891 02:20:16.120 --> 02:20:19.399 conversations because I think they're cathartic. I think they're healthy. 2892 02:20:20.680 --> 02:20:22.680 But at the end of the day, like that's my 2893 02:20:22.760 --> 02:20:24.840 old life, man, exactly, there's nothing to do with me. 2894 02:20:24.840 --> 02:20:27.760 Now and that moving on though, Also, like like you 2895 02:20:27.840 --> 02:20:34.719 mentioned with the startup, there's also the issue of finding purpose. 2896 02:20:34.840 --> 02:20:37.799 Like if you try to move on and you're just 2897 02:20:37.879 --> 02:20:42.079 doing some menial jobs somewhere that doesn't fill you with 2898 02:20:42.120 --> 02:20:45.639 that same purpose. And you know, we talk about post 2899 02:20:45.639 --> 02:20:50.479 traumatic stress, and then we talk about this idea of transitioning, 2900 02:20:50.559 --> 02:20:55.920 which is a nebulous Okay, I was doing something meaningful. 2901 02:20:56.360 --> 02:20:58.559 I had people to my left and right that I 2902 02:20:58.639 --> 02:21:02.319 trusted with my life, even if I couldn't stand them, 2903 02:21:03.159 --> 02:21:07.040 And now I'm out in this world where there really 2904 02:21:07.120 --> 02:21:08.120 is no meaning. 2905 02:21:08.840 --> 02:21:11.479 So here's the best way I can define it for 2906 02:21:11.559 --> 02:21:14.600 folks that are preparing to transition or perhaps have transition, 2907 02:21:14.719 --> 02:21:17.280 is that I felt like life was black and white. 2908 02:21:17.440 --> 02:21:20.319 It was kind of a gray and there was no 2909 02:21:20.399 --> 02:21:23.959 color to it, and there was no excitement. And it 2910 02:21:24.079 --> 02:21:26.440 was a really heavy thing to deal with because you're like, 2911 02:21:26.440 --> 02:21:30.719 holy crap, man, like life is boring. Yeah, and you 2912 02:21:30.760 --> 02:21:32.120 know some people are like, oh, you should get back 2913 02:21:32.120 --> 02:21:34.600 into skydiving or something like, well, let's go buy a 2914 02:21:34.680 --> 02:21:37.040 fast car and go test myself. 2915 02:21:37.319 --> 02:21:41.280 Right. That's changing the dragon, right, right, that's dangerous behavior. 2916 02:21:41.360 --> 02:21:41.520 Yeah. 2917 02:21:41.600 --> 02:21:45.159 So I struggle with it for the past year and 2918 02:21:45.200 --> 02:21:46.559 I was like, man, it's like, how do I get 2919 02:21:46.600 --> 02:21:49.760 back to normal? And what I realized was you're talking 2920 02:21:49.799 --> 02:21:51.879 to some really smart people and people I trust. Is 2921 02:21:51.879 --> 02:21:55.600 that it will never be that normal. It's different. And 2922 02:21:55.680 --> 02:21:58.680 so once you embrace that and you accept it, you 2923 02:21:58.719 --> 02:22:00.719 say that he listen, that was a part of my life. 2924 02:22:00.760 --> 02:22:03.239 It's exciting, it's fun, there's cool stories you can talk about. 2925 02:22:04.200 --> 02:22:08.079 It will never be that again, and you have to 2926 02:22:08.120 --> 02:22:10.840 warn that process. And so that's what I'm going through 2927 02:22:10.879 --> 02:22:14.280 right now. And it's difficult, man. And like some guys 2928 02:22:14.319 --> 02:22:16.719 are better than I am. Some guys are more mature 2929 02:22:16.719 --> 02:22:20.159 than I am and can find success. Maybe it's financially 2930 02:22:20.280 --> 02:22:22.920 they want it, maybe it's you know, purpose in a 2931 02:22:23.040 --> 02:22:28.520 in a career. But for me, I found the best 2932 02:22:28.719 --> 02:22:31.760 kind of segue is I have a small team of 2933 02:22:31.760 --> 02:22:35.239 people that I trust. We have a we're orienting on 2934 02:22:35.319 --> 02:22:38.360 a task and a purpose, and I can make it 2935 02:22:38.399 --> 02:22:40.479 successful because I know how to do that right. And 2936 02:22:40.559 --> 02:22:44.040 so I think that's the most important aspect to me. 2937 02:22:44.079 --> 02:22:47.000 It's healthy for me. But I will tell you going 2938 02:22:47.040 --> 02:22:51.719 back to the compartmentalization, is that guys like us have 2939 02:22:51.799 --> 02:22:54.440 been very good at doing that and where we can 2940 02:22:54.479 --> 02:22:56.879 walk down the street and no one will notice any difference. 2941 02:22:57.319 --> 02:22:59.639 The fact is is that we're we're keeping these things 2942 02:22:59.680 --> 02:23:03.040 wrap and we're doing our own detriment, right, And so 2943 02:23:03.159 --> 02:23:07.680 until we let those things go and process them, they'll 2944 02:23:07.760 --> 02:23:09.959 continue to be kind of the mill center on her neck. 2945 02:23:10.079 --> 02:23:13.719 And so I've been using conversations like this is as 2946 02:23:13.959 --> 02:23:17.520 the catharsis of letting him go, right. I mean, I'm 2947 02:23:17.520 --> 02:23:19.399 gonna tell you guys some cool stories, cool man like, 2948 02:23:19.479 --> 02:23:22.079 I'm not gonna tell you classified stuff, but let's let 2949 02:23:22.120 --> 02:23:25.040 it out right, and you know, failures and successes they're 2950 02:23:25.040 --> 02:23:27.959 here man, right, but this next life is mine, is 2951 02:23:27.959 --> 02:23:28.959 what I make it right. 2952 02:23:29.840 --> 02:23:33.559 I absolutely agree with you, and we've had you know, 2953 02:23:35.120 --> 02:23:37.440 I feel like I did. First off, I'll say that 2954 02:23:37.600 --> 02:23:39.600 like I feel like Jack is one of those people 2955 02:23:39.600 --> 02:23:42.120 that's dealt really well with that transition. 2956 02:23:43.120 --> 02:23:46.120 I mean like he's very well adjusted. We're in a 2957 02:23:46.120 --> 02:23:46.600 sweater now. 2958 02:23:46.760 --> 02:23:49.000 Yeah, yeah, he's automated. 2959 02:23:49.440 --> 02:23:51.719 I mean he has a he has a saltwater. 2960 02:23:51.239 --> 02:23:56.079 Tanks, like he knows who he is, you know, but 2961 02:23:56.639 --> 02:23:57.479 you know through the. 2962 02:23:57.399 --> 02:24:00.319 Interviews, I've also been out for twelve years actually say 2963 02:24:00.440 --> 02:24:01.040 probably helps. 2964 02:24:01.200 --> 02:24:04.120 So yeah, there was there's is. 2965 02:24:04.239 --> 02:24:05.479 I appreciate you saying that. 2966 02:24:05.799 --> 02:24:07.799 I would also point out, though, like I had that 2967 02:24:07.840 --> 02:24:10.520 period of adjustment as well, that was like quite difficult 2968 02:24:10.879 --> 02:24:13.440 to even though I wasn't as in as long as 2969 02:24:13.479 --> 02:24:16.040 you were. I didn't operate on the same level that 2970 02:24:16.079 --> 02:24:18.159 you did. But just being in the military eight years 2971 02:24:18.200 --> 02:24:20.440 as a young man and coming out, there's definitely a 2972 02:24:20.440 --> 02:24:23.040 period of time where I had to figure things out. 2973 02:24:23.120 --> 02:24:24.879 Well, it was eight years, but it was it was 2974 02:24:25.719 --> 02:24:28.559 it was, it was your it was the formative year. 2975 02:24:28.719 --> 02:24:31.319 Yeah, exactly hard years of comment exactly. Yeah. 2976 02:24:32.479 --> 02:24:35.040 And you know, and we've had a number of people 2977 02:24:35.040 --> 02:24:37.319 on the show that have have talked about whether it's 2978 02:24:37.559 --> 02:24:42.120 post traumatic stress or whether it's just the adaptation of 2979 02:24:42.200 --> 02:24:45.520 life after the military, because one of the things that 2980 02:24:46.520 --> 02:24:49.440 a wartime military does for you, like you said, is 2981 02:24:49.479 --> 02:24:50.479 it gives you purpose. 2982 02:24:50.520 --> 02:24:54.280 Like combat is pure, right, there's you're not worrying. 2983 02:24:54.040 --> 02:24:55.000 About fun taxes. 2984 02:24:55.040 --> 02:24:55.559 It's fun. 2985 02:24:55.639 --> 02:24:58.799 It It is what you dreamt of when you were 2986 02:24:59.120 --> 02:25:00.159 when you were a kid. 2987 02:25:00.159 --> 02:25:03.920 Throwing Yes, it turns into real grenades. Yeah, and it 2988 02:25:04.000 --> 02:25:04.760 is satisfying. 2989 02:25:04.840 --> 02:25:07.079 The only difference is now you don't have to argue 2990 02:25:07.159 --> 02:25:12.600 over who shot who first, right, But it's a very 2991 02:25:12.760 --> 02:25:15.479 pure endeavor. And then to move into a world that's 2992 02:25:15.559 --> 02:25:18.760 very ambiguous where. 2993 02:25:19.920 --> 02:25:22.760 You know the answers well, so I'd be remiss not 2994 02:25:22.879 --> 02:25:24.760 to say this is and we talked about this before 2995 02:25:24.760 --> 02:25:29.879 we started, is that I have a really deep respect 2996 02:25:30.079 --> 02:25:34.200 for conventional forces. Right, And here's what I'll say is 2997 02:25:34.200 --> 02:25:38.239 that soft gets all the fanfare, we also get a 2998 02:25:38.280 --> 02:25:41.719 lot of the support. Yeah, so you know when I 2999 02:25:41.719 --> 02:25:43.840 I tore both acls and I got you know, all 3000 02:25:43.840 --> 02:25:47.520 this great care, had great physical therapists and feel surrounded 3001 02:25:47.520 --> 02:25:51.079 me helping me. You know, when you're a conventional troop 3002 02:25:51.360 --> 02:25:56.079 and you're doing hard yards and Baghdad or even a Afghanistan, like, 3003 02:25:56.799 --> 02:25:58.600 there's not a whole hell of a lot there for 3004 02:25:58.639 --> 02:26:01.239 those guys. And so I would tell the guys that 3005 02:26:01.280 --> 02:26:03.719 are listening, because there's probably guys that are, is that 3006 02:26:04.239 --> 02:26:07.360 I have a deep respect for those dudes and their 3007 02:26:07.600 --> 02:26:13.200 service is no less than mine. We are Prima Donna's 3008 02:26:13.200 --> 02:26:17.399 and Soft And so you know, getting on black helicopters 3009 02:26:17.399 --> 02:26:21.360 with the best pilots in the world, right, not good pilots, 3010 02:26:21.399 --> 02:26:23.479 the best pilots in the world that take us the 3011 02:26:23.680 --> 02:26:25.639 X and put one wheel down and you jump off 3012 02:26:25.639 --> 02:26:27.639 on the rooftop and you go slam a target and 3013 02:26:27.639 --> 02:26:29.360 you get out in thirty minutes. 3014 02:26:29.120 --> 02:26:30.719 And you're hitting when you know every ready's sleep. 3015 02:26:30.719 --> 02:26:32.479 You know, you come back and do you come back 3016 02:26:32.479 --> 02:26:35.959 and drinking beers and playing Xbox right right? Those people 3017 02:26:36.000 --> 02:26:39.559 don't get is that you're you're spoiled, right and so 3018 02:26:39.840 --> 02:26:41.520 and do you want to do Hell yeah, you want 3019 02:26:41.520 --> 02:26:44.440 to do not because because you're gonna have every resource available. 3020 02:26:44.799 --> 02:26:48.959 Those kids, those kids, men and women, did it with 3021 02:26:49.079 --> 02:26:52.840 no resources. And I think there's a lot to be 3022 02:26:52.879 --> 02:26:54.399 said about that, and I think it gets lost in 3023 02:26:54.440 --> 02:26:57.920 the kind of the the nostalgia and the romance of 3024 02:26:58.040 --> 02:27:01.799 soft in that you know, soft isn't any better than. 3025 02:27:01.680 --> 02:27:05.239 Those guys or galas like you say, soft is sexy 3026 02:27:05.719 --> 02:27:08.200 and you and and they have the budget, they get 3027 02:27:08.239 --> 02:27:11.600 the training. But we've had like Louis Fernandez, Raymond pat like, 3028 02:27:11.600 --> 02:27:15.440 we've had people on that and we we want more 3029 02:27:15.479 --> 02:27:18.920 conventional you know, we're we want more conventional soldiers and 3030 02:27:19.559 --> 02:27:24.520 uh marines on because they were living it every day. 3031 02:27:24.639 --> 02:27:26.319 Their employments were longer. 3032 02:27:26.079 --> 02:27:28.600 With not a lot of care on the backside, right right, 3033 02:27:28.719 --> 02:27:32.239 They didn't have the support they they couldn't they didn't 3034 02:27:32.280 --> 02:27:37.280 have you know an AC one thirty you know hovering above, 3035 02:27:37.879 --> 02:27:40.959 which is a pacifier for operators, right it is absolutely 3036 02:27:41.520 --> 02:27:43.799 you know, when you hear that lawnmower, the great lawnmower 3037 02:27:43.840 --> 02:27:46.479 in the sky, like the bad guys hear that too. 3038 02:27:47.360 --> 02:27:50.319 Yeah, man, I think it's it's it's pretty important to 3039 02:27:50.319 --> 02:27:53.840 recognize and and if you don't, maybe you're you're tone deaf. 3040 02:27:54.000 --> 02:27:58.079 But yeah, I think Soft guys in general realize that, 3041 02:27:58.280 --> 02:28:00.440 you know, we've been spoiled for a long time and 3042 02:28:00.559 --> 02:28:02.559 for a good reason. Like we've had really hard missions. 3043 02:28:02.559 --> 02:28:04.760 We've done most of the combat, like Soft has done 3044 02:28:04.920 --> 02:28:08.639 almost all the combat the past twenty years. Actually that's 3045 02:28:08.680 --> 02:28:11.280 not true towards the end end years. Yeah, for sure. 3046 02:28:12.799 --> 02:28:15.600 But you know, I don't take it for granted that 3047 02:28:15.639 --> 02:28:18.879 those kids were, you know, walking the streets and basically 3048 02:28:18.879 --> 02:28:23.360 completely vulnerable when I was sitting in a safe you know, mss, 3049 02:28:23.399 --> 02:28:25.959 you know, drinking beers and when I wasn't supposed to do. 3050 02:28:26.319 --> 02:28:32.000 Uh, but you weren't doing anything that any like major 3051 02:28:32.040 --> 02:28:33.479 and above what do whatever? 3052 02:28:33.520 --> 02:28:36.079 I can say now that's factual information. 3053 02:28:36.159 --> 02:28:40.559 Yeah, we have just I think I need to get 3054 02:28:40.559 --> 02:28:41.079 back to the view. 3055 02:28:41.120 --> 02:28:41.559 We have a. 3056 02:28:43.719 --> 02:28:48.280 Couple more questions real quickly, just popped up, So I 3057 02:28:48.399 --> 02:28:51.559 just want to go over real quickly. I'm pulling this up. Uh, 3058 02:28:51.840 --> 02:28:58.639 we know about launch Firestorm dot com right, that's that's 3059 02:28:58.680 --> 02:28:59.440 Firestorm Laves. 3060 02:28:59.520 --> 02:29:00.840 There's also Firestorm Labs. 3061 02:29:00.840 --> 02:29:01.440 It does games. 3062 02:29:01.559 --> 02:29:03.159 That's not them. 3063 02:29:03.239 --> 02:29:05.120 And then you said fox Trot three. 3064 02:29:05.479 --> 02:29:09.239 Yeah, and then what was the other lifeline rescue? 3065 02:29:09.440 --> 02:29:13.959 Lifeline rescue, So they're all down in the link. 3066 02:29:15.360 --> 02:29:23.559 And then we had one question that was, uh or 3067 02:29:23.600 --> 02:29:30.159 when we had like two more Graham more Portanite plans 3068 02:29:30.200 --> 02:29:32.559 for retirement, thank you for the generation, and we got 3069 02:29:32.559 --> 02:29:35.159 that and then Jerry, oh we have two more Jerry, 3070 02:29:35.879 --> 02:29:40.559 what would you choose, uh, wortthog or AC one over 3071 02:29:40.600 --> 02:29:41.920 your head for what measure? 3072 02:29:42.399 --> 02:29:46.719 Yeah, it depends. I mean here, here's a story I'll 3073 02:29:46.719 --> 02:29:50.920 tell you about A or and a tens. So we 3074 02:29:50.920 --> 02:29:54.559 were we were doing up and we patrolled into this 3075 02:29:54.680 --> 02:29:59.120 like wheat field and uh, we're completely surrounded by compounds 3076 02:29:59.639 --> 02:30:02.879 and it was bad. We knew it was about to 3077 02:30:03.040 --> 02:30:04.879 pop off. We knew it was about to pop off, 3078 02:30:05.239 --> 02:30:07.760 like it was coming to just win. And our AC 3079 02:30:07.840 --> 02:30:11.479 went thirty got pulled for HVI for the other task force. 3080 02:30:11.520 --> 02:30:13.520 They're like, hey, we got HVI, we need a one thirty. 3081 02:30:13.559 --> 02:30:16.280 They pulled AC one thirty and we're like holy crap. 3082 02:30:16.799 --> 02:30:18.719 So we had a you know, we had an empty 3083 02:30:18.840 --> 02:30:23.200 nine and uh, We're like, we're screwed and we're about 3084 02:30:23.239 --> 02:30:24.600 to get in a tick. We knew it and it 3085 02:30:24.639 --> 02:30:29.319 was coming any second and it popped off and we 3086 02:30:29.319 --> 02:30:31.360 we were pinned down. We were fighting our way out 3087 02:30:31.360 --> 02:30:33.440 of there the main and Salt Force was way back 3088 02:30:33.479 --> 02:30:35.760 behind us. We were a recue team and we were 3089 02:30:35.799 --> 02:30:38.319 just getting it. I mean, we're we're like, holy crap, 3090 02:30:38.360 --> 02:30:42.319 bringing and die. And the controller was back to the 3091 02:30:42.319 --> 02:30:44.000 Maine Salt Force knew we were in a tick and 3092 02:30:44.000 --> 02:30:46.319 we're calling back like holy shit. We're like this is bad, 3093 02:30:46.840 --> 02:30:51.239 and he got on call E tens. These guys came 3094 02:30:51.280 --> 02:30:54.719 in literally I'm not exaggerating, one hundred feet off the ground. 3095 02:30:55.799 --> 02:30:58.239 Two ship one hundred feet off the ground and they 3096 02:30:58.440 --> 02:31:02.760 straighted this compound. It was the most amazing thing I've 3097 02:31:02.799 --> 02:31:05.360 ever seen in my life. Yeah, I was like, I 3098 02:31:05.399 --> 02:31:07.040 was a nods. I had to pull nods because there's 3099 02:31:07.040 --> 02:31:09.680 so much fire. Like after they came in, two came in, 3100 02:31:09.760 --> 02:31:12.920 I'm like, why don't we use these every night? I'm like, 3101 02:31:12.920 --> 02:31:17.559 this is amazing. Have these lettering over head? They destroyed everything. 3102 02:31:17.959 --> 02:31:20.040 There was nothing left I'm be honest, there was nothing 3103 02:31:20.079 --> 02:31:22.159 that I'm like, who is eighty one thirty? Was? That 3104 02:31:22.319 --> 02:31:26.719 is that thing we like? And e tens man, there's 3105 02:31:26.719 --> 02:31:29.719 a time and place for him. But those guys, here's 3106 02:31:29.760 --> 02:31:32.879 what I'll tell you. A ten pilots are the closest 3107 02:31:32.879 --> 02:31:35.520 thing to operators that you will ever find in the 3108 02:31:35.559 --> 02:31:39.040 aviation community. They are man, they are guys that will 3109 02:31:39.079 --> 02:31:40.360 like want they'll drinking. 3110 02:31:40.159 --> 02:31:45.760 And gals we had, yeah, chick, that's right, they'll I'll drink. 3111 02:31:45.559 --> 02:31:48.000 You and they will they will put that thing in 3112 02:31:48.040 --> 02:31:48.959 the dirt to help you. 3113 02:31:49.000 --> 02:31:53.280 They they're amazing and like, I love A ten but 3114 02:31:53.319 --> 02:31:56.399 it's and they do fly low like they they they're 3115 02:31:56.440 --> 02:31:57.319 at risk too. 3116 02:31:57.559 --> 02:32:01.840 But those eightens, it's yeah, we. 3117 02:32:02.000 --> 02:32:04.479 We have a PJA or a guy went through basic 3118 02:32:04.600 --> 02:32:06.840 training with became a PJ and then he became an 3119 02:32:06.840 --> 02:32:09.760 A ten pol Oh wow, you guys should have him 3120 02:32:09.760 --> 02:32:10.200 on the podcast. 3121 02:32:11.200 --> 02:32:14.559 Jason at Yeah, We're we're definitely down for But he. 3122 02:32:14.719 --> 02:32:16.959 Is the best of both worlds because he understands the 3123 02:32:17.000 --> 02:32:20.159 ground component and then he is you know, big balls 3124 02:32:20.159 --> 02:32:21.200 on the A ten side. 3125 02:32:21.280 --> 02:32:27.079 And this also speaks to combat controllers. J tax Tac 3126 02:32:27.159 --> 02:32:32.879 pes that when when those dudes are on like the 3127 02:32:32.920 --> 02:32:37.120 world can be exploding around you, and they're just on 3128 02:32:37.200 --> 02:32:42.520 their radio controlling their stacks, like doing this. Yeah, like 3129 02:32:42.559 --> 02:32:46.120 they're just the world around they are just doing That's. 3130 02:32:45.959 --> 02:32:47.760 Why it gets some many silver stars because they're staying 3131 02:32:47.760 --> 02:32:51.120 there under gunfighters and they don't hear the ground snapping 3132 02:32:51.120 --> 02:32:53.200 around them because they have two you know, a team. 3133 02:32:53.280 --> 02:32:57.360 Pelter's yeah, and I would be like, somebody kill these 3134 02:32:57.360 --> 02:33:01.600 people please, and they're just like yeah, no, no, no, and 3135 02:33:01.600 --> 02:33:02.360 and calling. 3136 02:33:02.120 --> 02:33:04.200 The tribal also taking cover and they're like up, They're 3137 02:33:04.239 --> 02:33:05.719 like yeah. 3138 02:33:05.360 --> 02:33:10.319 Yeah, so amazing people. Andrew, thank you very much. And 3139 02:33:10.319 --> 02:33:11.360 and that's it for the question. 3140 02:33:11.639 --> 02:33:16.600 Is on Tuesday, we're gonna have Andrew Milburn back in 3141 02:33:16.639 --> 02:33:18.799 the studio. We're gonna need to buy another bottle of 3142 02:33:18.799 --> 02:33:20.120 Scotch for that one or two. 3143 02:33:20.399 --> 02:33:20.879 He's coming. 3144 02:33:20.920 --> 02:33:23.520 He's coming back from Ukraine where he's been you know, 3145 02:33:23.680 --> 02:33:26.120 his organization, the Most Art Group, has been doing a 3146 02:33:26.120 --> 02:33:29.440 lot of work. And then on Friday, we're gonna have 3147 02:33:29.479 --> 02:33:33.760 Daryl Blocker on the show, whose career c I a 3148 02:33:33.760 --> 02:33:36.879 amazing career, super interesting guy. I'm excited to have him 3149 02:33:36.879 --> 02:33:39.799 on the show. So that'll be this coming Friday. Andrew 3150 02:33:39.840 --> 02:33:41.520 will be on Tuesday. 3151 02:33:43.239 --> 02:33:47.840 Excellent, and so we to where people can find you. 3152 02:33:47.959 --> 02:33:50.000 Just one quick thing for. 3153 02:33:51.440 --> 02:33:54.319 Veterans out there or anybody who might like be going 3154 02:33:54.319 --> 02:33:58.600 through this, but particularly veterans, what's this step for them 3155 02:33:58.639 --> 02:34:00.879 if they're feeling if they're starting to isolate, if they're 3156 02:34:01.000 --> 02:34:07.200 feeling bored, gets affected done. 3157 02:34:07.319 --> 02:34:09.479 That's a loaded question, man, I mean it's not. It's 3158 02:34:09.559 --> 02:34:15.200 it's person person specific. So the VA sucks, that's the 3159 02:34:15.200 --> 02:34:17.959 first thing. And you guys will learn that very quickly. 3160 02:34:19.440 --> 02:34:22.719 So you have to find your network. I think asking 3161 02:34:22.760 --> 02:34:25.239 for help is important. People say they're going to help you, 3162 02:34:25.520 --> 02:34:27.159 there's only a few that will and so you have 3163 02:34:27.200 --> 02:34:31.920 to find those folks. And I think that you know, 3164 02:34:32.200 --> 02:34:38.680 letting the letting the stuff out is important personally. And yeah, 3165 02:34:38.719 --> 02:34:40.000 I don't know, man, there's a lot of people that 3166 02:34:40.040 --> 02:34:41.680 want to help you. It's just you got to ask. 3167 02:34:42.040 --> 02:34:44.760 And so I have a rollex the folks that I 3168 02:34:44.840 --> 02:34:49.760 contact all the time because I know that potentially I know, 3169 02:34:49.799 --> 02:34:51.719 I think that they need it and I hope that 3170 02:34:51.760 --> 02:34:53.440 they'll reach out to me when when I did it. 3171 02:34:53.600 --> 02:34:58.680 But you know, there's a network there. So it's it's 3172 02:34:58.680 --> 02:35:01.840 different for every community, but there's been a lot of suicides. 3173 02:35:03.200 --> 02:35:05.959 We we haven't had a lot of suicides within our 3174 02:35:06.239 --> 02:35:11.840 our group, thank god, but the community, the community real 3175 02:35:12.000 --> 02:35:15.360 large has and so there's a lot of different factors. 3176 02:35:15.399 --> 02:35:17.680 Some of it's financial, so it's personal. Some of it's 3177 02:35:18.120 --> 02:35:21.399 you know, tv I, some of it's PTSD. There's a 3178 02:35:21.440 --> 02:35:24.120 ton of cool treatments out there. Some of the Navy 3179 02:35:24.120 --> 02:35:27.719 guys I was talking to you have been really you know, 3180 02:35:27.799 --> 02:35:32.399 keyed up on hyperbaric oxygen therapy, which is HBOT in 3181 02:35:32.479 --> 02:35:34.959 a lot of lives, were kind of reconnecting some of 3182 02:35:34.719 --> 02:35:38.200 the the the connected tis in the brain and really 3183 02:35:38.280 --> 02:35:43.239 mending that, really mending some of the damage that's been done. 3184 02:35:44.079 --> 02:35:46.600 And then the other one, which is a bit controversial, 3185 02:35:46.639 --> 02:35:49.280 but like you know, there's vets, organizations do a lot 3186 02:35:49.319 --> 02:35:51.840 of psychedelic stuff is having a lot of good effects. 3187 02:35:52.719 --> 02:35:55.360 I've talked to some folks that I know and trust 3188 02:35:55.440 --> 02:35:57.760 that I've done it and it's saved their lives, and 3189 02:35:57.799 --> 02:36:02.680 so I respect the process. I've never done it personally, 3190 02:36:02.760 --> 02:36:06.200 but you know, I think that's important to kind of 3191 02:36:07.079 --> 02:36:08.319 suss out whatever it's good for you. 3192 02:36:08.760 --> 02:36:10.719 It is working for quite a few people. I mean 3193 02:36:10.719 --> 02:36:12.280 We've had a few on the show in the past, 3194 02:36:12.360 --> 02:36:15.959 that head. Yeah, Sam, Yeah, I spoken to quite a 3195 02:36:16.000 --> 02:36:16.760 few pole Yeah. 3196 02:36:16.840 --> 02:36:19.959 Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know if I'm ready to 3197 02:36:20.000 --> 02:36:20.799 do the ayahuasca. 3198 02:36:20.920 --> 02:36:22.120 You know, you might, you might get through. 3199 02:36:22.120 --> 02:36:24.399 There's also the d m T thing that people do 3200 02:36:24.399 --> 02:36:26.920 down south of the border, and it's i mean, well 3201 02:36:27.200 --> 02:36:28.319 not to scare the squares. 3202 02:36:28.559 --> 02:36:30.319 I mean, it's like monitored by doctors. 3203 02:36:30.440 --> 02:36:32.280 It's very professionals. 3204 02:36:32.319 --> 02:36:34.600 I mean they're doing mushrooms or doing the md m A. 3205 02:36:34.879 --> 02:36:36.799 They're like, there are a lot of different. 3206 02:36:36.840 --> 02:36:40.440 There's yeah, and you know, the v will hand you 3207 02:36:40.440 --> 02:36:42.360 out a lot of pills. Yeah, and they'll do it 3208 02:36:42.479 --> 02:36:46.559 very you know, very easily, very quickly. And there's other solutions. 3209 02:36:46.600 --> 02:36:48.360 I guess it would be my My bottom line is 3210 02:36:48.399 --> 02:36:50.639 that you know, do your research, figure it out. Yeah. 3211 02:36:50.680 --> 02:36:53.120 Be notice at the VA were like the DARPA of 3212 02:36:53.360 --> 02:36:56.079 military medicine, right if they were out there on the 3213 02:36:56.159 --> 02:36:59.200 condition in there and not the dark boy, they are 3214 02:36:59.520 --> 02:37:04.680 the most there the jiffy louve of yeah right right. 3215 02:37:04.680 --> 02:37:06.040 Even DARPA isn't DARPA. 3216 02:37:06.440 --> 02:37:10.799 Yeah, Well, Chat, I really appreciate you coming out here 3217 02:37:10.879 --> 02:37:13.799 man and joining us and smoking some cigars and drinking 3218 02:37:13.840 --> 02:37:15.760 some whiskey and telling us a little bit about your 3219 02:37:15.799 --> 02:37:16.280 you know, your. 3220 02:37:16.280 --> 02:37:17.799 Story and what you went through. 3221 02:37:17.879 --> 02:37:21.040 I mean, it's been like really informative and interesting and 3222 02:37:21.200 --> 02:37:22.639 you know, I hope people get something. 3223 02:37:22.399 --> 02:37:25.719 Out of it. Right now, Yeah, I appreciate having me. 3224 02:37:25.879 --> 02:37:26.639 Yeah, absolutely. 3225 02:37:26.680 --> 02:37:28.040 I hope you'll hit us up next time you come 3226 02:37:28.040 --> 02:37:31.079 through the city for sure. All right, guys, we will 3227 02:37:31.120 --> 02:37:34.719 see you Tuesday and then Friday, So take care of everyone.