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Speaker 9: Ye yeah, You are now listening to True Murder, The
Speaker 9: most shocking killers in true crime history and the authors
Speaker 9: that have written about them Gasey.
Speaker 10: Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK. Every week another fascinating
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Speaker 10: author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 7: Good Evening, a memoir of hope, healing and survival, sure
Speaker 7: to resonate with the fans of J. C. Dugard's has
Speaker 7: Stolen Life and Elizabeth Smarts My Story. On August twenty eighth,
Speaker 7: nineteen ninety seven, just as she was starting her junior
Speaker 7: year at the University of Kentucky, Holly Dunn and her
Speaker 7: boyfriend Chris Meyer, were walking along railroad tracks on their
Speaker 7: way home from a party when they were attacked by
Speaker 7: a notorious serial killer, Angel Matcherino Resendez, aka the Railroad Killer.
Speaker 7: After a boyfriend is beaten to death in front of her,
Speaker 7: Holly is stabbed, raped, and left for dead. In this
Speaker 7: memoir of survival and healing from a horrific true crime,
Speaker 7: Holly recounts how she lived through the vicious assault, helped
Speaker 7: bring her sale into justice, and ultimately found meaning and
Speaker 7: purpose through service to victims of sexual assault and other
Speaker 7: violent crimes. She has worked as a motivational speaker, an activist,
Speaker 7: and founded Holly's House, a safe and nurturing space in
Speaker 7: her hometown of Evansville, Indiana. The book of her feature
Speaker 7: in this Evening is Sole Survivor, The inspiring true story
Speaker 7: of coming face to face with the infamous Railroad Killer.
Speaker 7: With my special guest, author, speaker and founder of Holly's House,
Speaker 7: Holly Dunn, Welcome to the program and thank you very
Speaker 7: much for agreeing to this interview, Holly done.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 7: Thank you very much. Incredible story, and thank you very
Speaker 7: much for agreeing to this interview. This is very very personal,
Speaker 7: I know. And the only thing is I know that
Speaker 7: you've probably told this more than most victims of every
Speaker 7: to older story. Tell me probably difference. Let's get right
Speaker 7: into this. Tell us a little bit about your growing up.
Speaker 7: You talk about your father being a successful businessman and
Speaker 7: you admired him. Tell us a little bit about your
Speaker 7: early life before we talk about how you happened to
Speaker 7: meet Chris Mayor.
Speaker 3: Sure, my early life was amazing. I had a wonderful childhood.
Speaker 3: I had two great, loving parents. I had a sister
Speaker 3: that I grew up with, and you know, we we
Speaker 3: lived a great life. We went to school, we went
Speaker 3: on vacations, we you know, I mean I had a
Speaker 3: perfect childhood. If you could have had a perfect childhood,
Speaker 3: I think I had it.
Speaker 7: Right. And you say, your dad was he owned a
Speaker 7: bunch of hotels, and so you were he was. You
Speaker 7: were trying to follow in his footsteps, and you were
Speaker 7: trying to do studies in an accounting tell us a
Speaker 7: little bit about your school work and where you and
Speaker 7: a little bit about your father's business and your aspirations
Speaker 7: as well.
Speaker 3: Sure. Sure, So I had always planned to go into
Speaker 3: business with my father, well you know, later in life.
Speaker 3: That's kind of that kind of was my plan. I
Speaker 3: studied accounting then finance at the University of Kentucky, and
Speaker 3: you know that that was my plan. I was going
Speaker 3: to go into business with him, maybe someday take over
Speaker 3: the business. That was kind of my thought. I I
Speaker 3: had no you know, I never thought I would get married.
Speaker 3: I never thought I would have kids. I kind of
Speaker 3: that was my plan. I just always had career goals,
Speaker 3: and so I was just going to you know, get
Speaker 3: my degree and then go and work for my father.
Speaker 3: So and his businesses were we franchise hotels. So it's
Speaker 3: called Dunn Hospitality Group, and we actually you know, own,
Speaker 3: own and manage and build hotels kind of in in
Speaker 3: Indiana and Kentucky and in a in a probably a
Speaker 3: five hundred mile radius from Evansville. But you know, it's
Speaker 3: and so it's been a successful business. And I think
Speaker 3: what I always saw in my father that I wanted
Speaker 3: to emulate was that he was able to be in
Speaker 3: our lives. Like he came to all my basketball games,
Speaker 3: he came to, you know, when I had things at school,
Speaker 3: he came to dinner every night. You know, I liked
Speaker 3: that he was so much a part of our family.
Speaker 3: But he was a successful businessman. So I think that's
Speaker 3: really what I wanted to emulate, is I wanted to be,
Speaker 3: you know, if I did end up having a family,
Speaker 3: I wanted to have a great career, but then also
Speaker 3: be able to have, you know, time with my family.
Speaker 7: You also grew up in a not a strict Catholic family,
Speaker 7: but a serious Catholic family. Tell us a little bit
Speaker 7: about the faith that you grew up in.
Speaker 3: Sure, Well, my mom was Catholic, and so we grew
Speaker 3: I grew up Catholic. I went to Catholic school. My
Speaker 3: dad was actually General Baptist, though, and so my dad
Speaker 3: would go to his church, and my mom and dad
Speaker 3: both go to each other's churches. So my dad would
Speaker 3: go to church with my mom and with us, and
Speaker 3: then they would we would also go to my dad's church.
Speaker 3: So we were going to sometimes a lot of times,
Speaker 3: to church ceremonies every weekend. And you know that it
Speaker 3: made me probably very well rounded in my Christianity. I
Speaker 3: think I learned a lot about the Baptist faith as
Speaker 3: well as a lot about the Catholic faith. But I
Speaker 3: was baptized Catholic and raised Catholic.
Speaker 7: Now let's get to where you are in ninety seven.
Speaker 7: You talk about that you would rented an apartment with
Speaker 7: a couple of your friends off campus, a second floor
Speaker 7: of a house, and you were going to university, the
Speaker 7: University of Kentucky at Lexington. So this is June ninety seven.
Speaker 7: So tell us the circumstances where you were in your
Speaker 7: life at that time. We just talked about how things
Speaker 7: were great up to this point anyway, and in continue
Speaker 7: with that. In June ninety seven in at Kentucky and
Speaker 7: you meet a University of Kentucky, you meet Chris Mayor.
Speaker 7: Tell us a little bit about Chris and how you
Speaker 7: came to meet him that fafeful day.
Speaker 3: Sure, So I was going to summer school at the
Speaker 3: University of Kentucky. I was trying to catch up on
Speaker 3: some classes that summer and I was taking summer school.
Speaker 3: So I was living in an apartment off campus and
Speaker 3: going to summer school, and I met Chris one night.
Speaker 3: You know, in the middle of summer school. I mean,
Speaker 3: my roommate was actually turning twenty one, and so we
Speaker 3: wanted to go out and get her a drink for
Speaker 3: her birthday. But I was not yet twenty one. So
Speaker 3: we just went to a restaurant where she would be
Speaker 3: able to get, you know, a drink at a restaurant,
Speaker 3: but we went to I guess a we went to
Speaker 3: a restaurant that wouldn't serve us because I wasn't twenty
Speaker 3: one yet, and so we were kind of deflated. We
Speaker 3: were like, well, we're gonna go home and she's not
Speaker 3: going to get her birthday drink. You know. We went
Speaker 3: at midnight actually on her birthday, and we ended up
Speaker 3: stopping by a bar close to where we were living,
Speaker 3: and it was it was it was crazy because it
Speaker 3: was a laundry mat, but there was a bar next
Speaker 3: to it. And that's actually where I met Chris that night.
Speaker 3: It was the you know, after midnight on my friend's birthday,
Speaker 3: and we were just trying to buy her a drink
Speaker 3: and Chris and all of his friends were sitting at
Speaker 3: that bar, and I guess very familiar with it. I
Speaker 3: had never been in it before, but that's where we met,
Speaker 3: and you know, we started talking straight away, and I
Speaker 3: think it was kind of we were spitting with each other,
Speaker 3: I think that night, and so that kind of that
Speaker 3: just started it all.
Speaker 7: Do you as you describe them, because it's well it's
Speaker 7: important anyway, but can you describe them because for people
Speaker 7: to get a visual of what he was like and
Speaker 7: also what he looked like, but also what he was
Speaker 7: like you mentioned the band fish and and sort of
Speaker 7: his leaves a bike enthusiast. So what did you first
Speaker 7: deduce from talking to him and learned about him and
Speaker 7: attracted you to him, and also describe kind of what
Speaker 7: he looks like for our audience.
Speaker 3: Sure, so Christmas six five, So he was quite tall,
Speaker 3: and he was just he was an outdoors kind of guy.
Speaker 3: So he enjoyed you know, you could tell in the
Speaker 3: way that he dressed, just in in his demeanor that
Speaker 3: he loved the outdoors. That he was you know, just
Speaker 3: not not very not. He didn't didn't have a lot
Speaker 3: of material things that he cared about. And he but
Speaker 3: he was the kindest soul, such an amazing guy. Uh
Speaker 3: just gave great big bear hugs. He was friendly to
Speaker 3: everyone he met and you know, just the kindest soul.
Speaker 3: And you know that he never met a stranger like
Speaker 3: he was friendly to everyone and that so he was
Speaker 3: super a super attractive guy, but also just super friendly
Speaker 3: and and and everyone wanted to be his friend because
Speaker 3: he was just a kind, nice, good guy and you
Speaker 3: know that that's I'm sure that's what drew me to him.
Speaker 3: And you know it, I hadn't met a guy like
Speaker 3: him before, So I think that, you know, that's that's
Speaker 3: what drew me to him in the first place.
Speaker 7: Now you're both in classes, and so your relationships develops,
Speaker 7: and so tell us how long it is before you
Speaker 7: get into this this situation one evening, and before we
Speaker 7: talk about that, tell us about the process of your
Speaker 7: relationship and where you were at before on this day
Speaker 7: that everything changes.
Speaker 3: Well, we were at a point in our relationship where
Speaker 3: we'd been dating for about three months. It wasn't we
Speaker 3: we hadn't been very serious in that three months. We
Speaker 3: had kind of become more friends, and we had just
Speaker 3: gotten to a point, I think in that three months
Speaker 3: where we were ready to take it a little further.
Speaker 3: We were ready to kind of be more than just friends.
Speaker 3: And so you know that that happened maybe a week
Speaker 3: before the fateful night that that that happened to us,
Speaker 3: but so that we were, you know, actually wanting to
Speaker 3: take it further and wanting to get closer and wanting
Speaker 3: to develop the relationship. So you know, if we'd I don't,
Speaker 3: we'd on't eve been. We'd only really known each other
Speaker 3: for three months and and it wasn't that wasn't long enough.
Speaker 3: Like That's if I had one wish, I wish that
Speaker 3: I could have spent more time with him, because I
Speaker 3: just didn't. I didn't get to, you know, do we
Speaker 3: didn't even get to do anything that we had planned
Speaker 3: to do. You know, we had planned to go on
Speaker 3: a picnic the next day and to go hiking and
Speaker 3: go on a picnic, and you know, we never got
Speaker 3: to do that. So I've tried to I don't know.
Speaker 3: That's and I think that's what I've done in my life,
Speaker 3: is that I've and that's what I did. That was
Speaker 3: a big part of my healing was and how I
Speaker 3: had agrieved Chris Chris was to actually, you know, go
Speaker 3: and do things that he loved and do things that
Speaker 3: he did, And I think that was actually part of
Speaker 3: my healing process. I think, you know, it wasn't a
Speaker 3: conventional way of healing that for me, it was to
Speaker 3: go and do things that he loved and to live
Speaker 3: out things that he loved in his life so that
Speaker 3: I could know him better because I didn't get long
Speaker 3: enough with him.
Speaker 7: You talk about after his trip to Maine, because they'll
Speaker 7: be important a little bit later. But there's a party,
Speaker 7: this off campus party here and forty or fifty people
Speaker 7: and you go with your friends, Adrian and a couple
Speaker 7: of friends of Chris's. So tell us about this party
Speaker 7: that you guys plan on and then what happens that
Speaker 7: you get Did you come to happen to go for
Speaker 7: a walk? The four of you?
Speaker 3: Sure, So we went to a party and it was
Speaker 3: an off campus party with maybe three blocks from campus.
Speaker 3: It was actually in a house that Chris had lived
Speaker 3: in before the year before, so he knew that the
Speaker 3: area well. And he was in a fraternity, so it
Speaker 3: was actually right after fraternity recruitment had just ended, had
Speaker 3: gotten all their new members, and so they were having
Speaker 3: a party to celebrate that they had all their new
Speaker 3: members in the fraternity. So that's what the party was for.
Speaker 3: And when we got there, it was quite boring. There
Speaker 3: wasn't a whole lot of people there. I didn't know
Speaker 3: anyone there. And so, you know, myself and Chris and
Speaker 3: two of our friends, two of his fraternity brothers, actually
Speaker 3: went to take a walk and we went to take
Speaker 3: a walk on down from the house. It was about
Speaker 3: I don't know, maybe a block or two from the
Speaker 3: house that we went to the railroad tracks. And the
Speaker 3: railroad tracks were only probably three blocks from the house.
Speaker 3: And again I said, Chris knew this area. So I
Speaker 3: Chris had been to the railroad tracks before. And so
Speaker 3: we actually, you know, went to the tracks and we
Speaker 3: were going to go put quarters down on the track
Speaker 3: and have trains run over them and flatten the quarters.
Speaker 3: And that was our thought, was that we all four
Speaker 3: went there and we went and put coins on the tracks,
Speaker 3: and we waited and we waited for a train to
Speaker 3: come by, and that was what we waited, kept waiting
Speaker 3: and just waiting that you know, no trains came by,
Speaker 3: and so it was boring. That was more boring than
Speaker 3: the party. And I guess Chris and I were being
Speaker 3: kind of lovey dovey, and so he actually our friends
Speaker 3: went back to the party and Chris and I stayed
Speaker 3: by the tracks to talk.
Speaker 7: And while you're there, you don't notice anything a miss,
Speaker 7: but there's an electrical box and you're talking and again
Speaker 7: you're you're just having a great time. And tell us
Speaker 7: what happens? What comes out of the dark.
Speaker 3: So we get up to leave, and we're walking back
Speaker 3: toward the house where the party is, and as we
Speaker 3: get up to leave, a man comes out from behind
Speaker 3: an electrical box right next to the tracks. And he
Speaker 3: comes out and he has a weapon on Chris, which
Speaker 3: I didn't even realize he had a weapon on Chris.
Speaker 3: But it was a knife or an ice picked something
Speaker 3: sharp that he had on Chris. And so he asked
Speaker 3: for money, and you know, I didn't really think anything
Speaker 3: of it because I also I didn't see the weapon.
Speaker 3: At this point, I thought, this is just somebody asking
Speaker 3: for money. Now, it was like midnight, it was dark,
Speaker 3: it was night, you know, it was there were some
Speaker 3: strange things about it, but literally it was that a
Speaker 3: guy was asking us for money and we said we
Speaker 3: didn't have any money, and he didn't believe us. So
Speaker 3: he had Chris get down on his knees and started
Speaker 3: going through Christm's backpack. So I thought, well, he's going
Speaker 3: through Christmas backpack to find some if we have any money,
Speaker 3: and and he goes through Chrism's backpack, or at least
Speaker 3: that's what he said he was doing, or that's what
Speaker 3: I thought he was doing, but but really what he
Speaker 3: was doing he was tying up Christ's hands behind his
Speaker 3: back with the backpack. And then he came over to me,
Speaker 3: and that's when I realized that he had a weapon.
Speaker 3: I mean, I wasn't far from him, but again it
Speaker 3: was dark and he and that's when I realized he
Speaker 3: had a weapon. And he held it up to me
Speaker 3: and he took off my belt and tied my hands
Speaker 3: behind my back with my belt, and I think that,
Speaker 3: you know, that's that's what's so I guess hard about
Speaker 3: this is that you know, here's two people and someone
Speaker 3: is trying to rob you. And that's kind of what
Speaker 3: I'm what I where my mind was at the time.
Speaker 3: I was thinking, this person wants to rob us. We
Speaker 3: have to give him what he wants so he'll let
Speaker 3: us go. So I start offering him, you know, do
Speaker 3: you want a car, We have a car you could have.
Speaker 3: Do you want credit cards? Do you want me to
Speaker 3: go to the ATM. I'll get you money, Like whatever
Speaker 3: you need, I'll get it for you. Because you know,
Speaker 3: it was that thought of you, if somebody wants your purse,
Speaker 3: you throw it at them and run away. I was
Speaker 3: trying to give him what he wanted so that he
Speaker 3: would leave us alone and let us go, But he
Speaker 3: just kept saying no to all of our offers. And
Speaker 3: that's what seems so strange is that he wasn't wanting
Speaker 3: what he said he wanted. So, you know, when I
Speaker 3: was like, I can get you money, I'll get you
Speaker 3: all the money you want, he didn't actually want money.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's because his his you know,
Speaker 3: that's what he initially had said. But his what he
Speaker 3: wanted all along was to to hurt us. It wasn't
Speaker 3: to you know, to rob us. And so you know,
Speaker 3: I at that point, I I he actually tied up
Speaker 3: our legs and gagged us, he you know, and I
Speaker 3: just remember being so I was afraid, but I felt
Speaker 3: an amazing piece over me this entire this entire time,
Speaker 3: and I felt just a like I that everything was
Speaker 3: gonna be okay. And that's that's what that was. Actually
Speaker 3: Chris's last word to me was Everything's gonna be okay.
Speaker 3: And he ended up hitting Chris with a fifty two
Speaker 3: pound rock, and you know, it seems like a dream
Speaker 3: in my mind. I I barely I don't. I mean,
Speaker 3: I remember I thought Chris got hit more than once.
Speaker 3: He only got hit once. And all I all I
Speaker 3: remember is Chris was gurgling, and I asked him to
Speaker 3: go turn Chris's head to the side because I didn't
Speaker 3: want him to choke on his own blood. And he
Speaker 3: actually went and did it. He wasn't that far away
Speaker 3: from me, but he went over to him and he
Speaker 3: came back over and he said he's gone. Don't worry
Speaker 3: about him anymore. And so that's when he climbed on
Speaker 3: top of me. I this is when I realized he
Speaker 3: was going to rape me. I don't think I thought
Speaker 3: about it until this moment. And so I was like, well,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna fight him, like I you know, what do
Speaker 3: I have to lose here? So I tried to fight.
Speaker 3: I was screaming, I was trying to, you know, hurt him,
Speaker 3: and he stabbed me in my neck and he said,
Speaker 3: look how easily I could kill you, And so I
Speaker 3: just stopped and then he raped me. I don't remember
Speaker 3: being raped or I remember literally floating above my body.
Speaker 3: I wasn't feeling pain. I didn't feel when he stabbed
Speaker 3: me in my neck. I did not feel any pain.
Speaker 3: And you know, I was actually talking to him, and
Speaker 3: I was asking him, you know, about his family and
Speaker 3: telling him about my family. I was trying to have
Speaker 3: him put a name with my face. I was trying to,
Speaker 3: you know, let him know that I didn't want to
Speaker 3: die and that I would help him. I was saying,
Speaker 3: I'll help you if if you let me go, I'll
Speaker 3: never tell anyone what you did. I'll help you get
Speaker 3: away from here. You know, I was trying to befriend
Speaker 3: him so that he wouldn't hurt me. And I thought
Speaker 3: that I actually had differended him. I actually I had
Speaker 3: asked him to put my pants back on because I thought, well,
Speaker 3: if I die, I don't want to be found here naked.
Speaker 3: So I asked him to put my pants back on,
Speaker 3: and he actually did that for me. And I don't
Speaker 3: remember being hit, but I was hit in my face
Speaker 3: and in the back of my head. I was hit
Speaker 3: probably five or six times in my face and five
Speaker 3: or six times in the back of my head. I
Speaker 3: was not hit with the rock that he hit Chris with.
Speaker 3: I was hit with some kind of board. They never
Speaker 3: found what he actually hit me with. And so, but
Speaker 3: he did he hit me, and I don't I don't
Speaker 3: remember being hit, but I know that he did hit me.
Speaker 3: And then I think I played dead. I think I,
Speaker 3: you know, just did I acted like I was dead
Speaker 3: so that he would leave and leave me alone. But
Speaker 3: I do remember thinking, I remember playing praying my last
Speaker 3: prayer because I thought, if I am going to die,
Speaker 3: I'm ready. And I felt that piece that I was
Speaker 3: talking to. I felt at peace that if it was
Speaker 3: if I was going to die, it was okay. And
Speaker 3: I but I remember thinking when he left me there,
Speaker 3: and when he walked away, I was thinking, thank you
Speaker 3: for leaving me here alive. And you know, I got up.
Speaker 3: I don't know how how much time passed. The nine
Speaker 3: one one call was made at like two forty something
Speaker 3: in the morning, and I know that we went got
Speaker 3: up to go back to the party around midnights. There's
Speaker 3: like a two hour and forty five minutes span in
Speaker 3: there that I don't know how long he was with us.
Speaker 3: I don't know you know when he when he, you know, left,
Speaker 3: I don't know how long I laid there before I
Speaker 3: got up to get help, but I walked about two
Speaker 3: hundred yards to a house nearby and they called nine
Speaker 3: one one for me, and I was rushed to the
Speaker 3: hospital and Chris was pronounced dead at the scene.
Speaker 7: It's incredible too, you talk about that you were conscious
Speaker 7: enough to say that, I want to make sure I
Speaker 7: notice everything about him. You noticed he had a Mexican accent.
Speaker 7: You notice things about his appearance. You notice this black
Speaker 7: snake tattoo. You wanted to remember things because you said,
Speaker 7: you vow to yourself, to yourself if I can get
Speaker 7: out of this, if I can get out of this,
Speaker 7: I'm going to get this guy. I'm gonna I'm gonna.
Speaker 3: Right, I thought, I want to. I want to be
Speaker 3: able to to to recognize you and to get and
Speaker 3: to get you if I have that chance.
Speaker 7: Right now, your appearance, you we can't well, we haven't
Speaker 7: described your appearance, but it was amazing that you ran
Speaker 7: up to this building and there was four people living
Speaker 7: in this in this apartment that these guys had, and
Speaker 7: one guy was home. You walked in. Everybody thought, even
Speaker 7: your father later thought you had red hair, but that
Speaker 7: was that's how much blood was caked in your hair.
Speaker 7: He broke his the eye socket on your left eye,
Speaker 7: I believe, and broke your jaw, among other things and lacerations.
Speaker 7: And you walked, like you say, you don't even remember.
Speaker 7: You walked on all kinds of glass and metal and
Speaker 7: rocks and everything to get to this house. Don't really
Speaker 7: remember that, And you end up in the hospital. Tell
Speaker 7: us a little bit about just the first things that
Speaker 7: happened to you at the hospital after this, your treatment,
Speaker 7: who you encounter, because this is important to how your life,
Speaker 7: the direction your life moves in as an advocate for
Speaker 7: abused people. Tell us about your experience at the hospital.
Speaker 3: Well, I, you know, I don't remember really a lot
Speaker 3: about the initial getting to the hospital. I mean, I
Speaker 3: remember writing in the ambulance with with the in the
Speaker 3: ambulance a little bit, and then I don't remember like
Speaker 3: actually getting to the hospital. But I think the thing
Speaker 3: I remember the most in the hospital was the rape
Speaker 3: kit that was done on me, because it was painful
Speaker 3: and it was awful, and you know, I just remember that,
Speaker 3: you know, as out of it as I was, I
Speaker 3: completely remember everything about that rape kit, and then you know,
Speaker 3: I was in the hospital for quite a while before
Speaker 3: my parents actually got there, but they got there as
Speaker 3: fast as they could. I remember them even asking me
Speaker 3: for my parents' phone number when I was in the hospital,
Speaker 3: and I could not remember their phone number. That's how
Speaker 3: kind of out of it I was. But they did
Speaker 3: find my parents phone number and called them. And it's
Speaker 3: it's crazy because when when my parents actually got there,
Speaker 3: they met with the hospital counselor, and the counselor told
Speaker 3: them to not talk about what had happened to me,
Speaker 3: and to try to not cry in front of me,
Speaker 3: don't cause me any more hurt or trauma than than
Speaker 3: they had to try, you know. And and that was
Speaker 3: the strangest thing because I once, once I finally did
Speaker 3: see my parents and see my sister and my family
Speaker 3: got to the hospital, I thought it was so strange
Speaker 3: that nobody was talking to me about what happened, and that,
Speaker 3: you know, when they would cry, they would literally like
Speaker 3: kind of walk away from me and try to go
Speaker 3: into the bathroom or go away from me when they
Speaker 3: were crying. And I'm just thinking, and here, I mean,
Speaker 3: I was crying constantly. I know, I was either sleeping
Speaker 3: or crying. That's pretty much all I was doing in
Speaker 3: the hospital, and it was you know, I thought it
Speaker 3: was so strange that people weren't crying in front of me,
Speaker 3: and so I, you know, I didn't I don't think
Speaker 3: I think that they were trying to, you know, help
Speaker 3: in that situation, but I don't. I don't think the
Speaker 3: advice really was correct, and maybe it was just that
Speaker 3: that's what they thought that should be done. But it
Speaker 3: was a very awkward. It made things a little awkward,
Speaker 3: but in no way, you know, was I not supported.
Speaker 3: I mean, my parents and my sister and all of
Speaker 3: my sorority sisters, my friends, everyone and Chris's friends even
Speaker 3: everyone came and saw me in the hospital, and you know,
Speaker 3: that's that was that The hard part was I didn't
Speaker 3: get to go to Chris's funeral. I was still in
Speaker 3: the hospital when they had Chris's funeral. Right after the funeral,
Speaker 3: they brought me things from the funeral to the hospital,
Speaker 3: and you know that that was just hard that I
Speaker 3: could wasn't actually able to be there. But it was
Speaker 3: amazing the support that I got, and that's what's you know,
Speaker 3: I think that that's what's always been amazing about my
Speaker 3: healing process and how I've been able to do what
Speaker 3: I've done is my support system. It's been unreal. I've had,
Speaker 3: you know, amazing support from friends and family, support from strangers,
Speaker 3: support from anybody that you know has heard my story.
Speaker 3: They've become helped me in my healing and they've become
Speaker 3: part of my healing process. And so you know, I
Speaker 3: if I could describe a perfect support system, it was mine,
Speaker 3: because I mean, I never got the questions that I
Speaker 3: think victims get, especially when it's acquaintance rape or date rape,
Speaker 3: that they get, you know, what were you wearing that night?
Speaker 3: You know, questions about your choices? And so no one
Speaker 3: ever questioned me about my choices. No one, no, because
Speaker 3: I was hurt so physically bad that no one said
Speaker 3: what were you wearing or what? You know what they did?
Speaker 3: They couldn't because I was hurt physically, and so I
Speaker 3: didn't get those normal questions that victims get. And I
Speaker 3: think that that that helped, and that I was constantly supported,
Speaker 3: and that that everyone you know didn't ask me those
Speaker 3: questions because it's I think I would have felt guilty,
Speaker 3: and I felt enough guilt. I already you feel do
Speaker 3: you feel guilt when things like this occur? You feel guilt.
Speaker 3: Nobody has to do anything, it's automatic that you feel
Speaker 3: the survivor's guilt. For me, I felt terrible survivor's guilt.
Speaker 3: And so you know, I think that if I could,
Speaker 3: if I attribute my healing though, really to my support system,
Speaker 3: it's it's it's still is amazing. I mean, I still
Speaker 3: have an amazing support system. I've always had one, and
Speaker 3: and I think that that's been how I've how I've
Speaker 3: been able to do what I do today.
Speaker 7: Let's talk about some of the parts of the recovery.
Speaker 7: But at the same time, meanwhile, their police are still
Speaker 7: just beginning to look for the search because they have
Speaker 7: they don't have a name, they don't have a suspect,
Speaker 7: they have very little evidence other than your description. When
Speaker 7: you make the description, the sketch artist is really good,
Speaker 7: you say that really looks accurate, but it looks like
Speaker 7: a lot of people. There's a reward, it goes up
Speaker 7: to twenty thousand dollars. They're they're doing everything they can,
Speaker 7: They're putting the DNA into databases and there's no match.
Speaker 7: And you meet a central figure in your story as well.
Speaker 7: And in this book is Detective Craig Currel, and he
Speaker 7: almost immediately wants to know if you are interested in
Speaker 7: potentially participating in America's Most Wanted. So tell us a
Speaker 7: little bit about duct Detective Currel and some of the
Speaker 7: interviews he does with you and sort of this his
Speaker 7: mission to have this case and have this killer apprehended.
Speaker 3: Sure well, Detective Sorell was, I mean the perfect person
Speaker 3: to have handled my case because I spoke to him
Speaker 3: actually in the hospital right after the attack, and you know,
Speaker 3: he really asked just the who, what, when, and where
Speaker 3: and why kind of questions. I mean that all that
Speaker 3: I you know, and asked those. That's all he asked.
Speaker 3: When I was, you know, in the most trauma and
Speaker 3: the most pain, like right after the attack. He just
Speaker 3: asked the basic questions that he needed to and then
Speaker 3: you know, he got my deposition later on the full
Speaker 3: story of what happened, maybe two or three days later,
Speaker 3: and you know it's I think from that moment on,
Speaker 3: I always had the kind of relationship with him, and
Speaker 3: I think it started with that I got sick. I
Speaker 3: actually threw up on him when I first met him,
Speaker 3: and that kind of broke the ice. It helped to
Speaker 3: you know, kind of start our relationship off. I guess, well,
Speaker 3: but you know, I it we had kind of like
Speaker 3: a good rapport with each other. He felt like a
Speaker 3: big brother to me almost, that he you know, I
Speaker 3: really felt like he cared and that he you know,
Speaker 3: was treating me like he would one of his own
Speaker 3: family members if something had happened to one of his
Speaker 3: own family members, that he would. He was working that
Speaker 3: hard and wanting, you know, wanting to figure out who
Speaker 3: had done this that badly, And so there were times
Speaker 3: when I felt like he wasn't working at all, and
Speaker 3: I would actually go to the election and the police
Speaker 3: department and go and and you know, go and like
Speaker 3: meet with him to make sure that he was doing
Speaker 3: his job. But all along he was, you know, submitting
Speaker 3: that DNA and going after every lead that he could find,
Speaker 3: and there were so many leads, but we didn't have
Speaker 3: a suspect for almost two years. So for two years
Speaker 3: he was working and trying to figure things out. But
Speaker 3: I'm sure as that time was going on, he was
Speaker 3: probably losing some hope because you know, as time keeps
Speaker 3: going on, it's it's hard to that makes it more
Speaker 3: difficult to you know, solve the crime. And so, you know,
Speaker 3: I think he was submitting the DNA doing what he could.
Speaker 3: You know, we didn't have fingerprints. All we had was DNA.
Speaker 3: So he submitted the DNA to a case in Texas.
Speaker 3: It was kind of a long shot they had. They
Speaker 3: had said that the they thought the railroad tracks were
Speaker 3: you know, the key and the case. And he submitted
Speaker 3: the DNA, which he had done before. It wasn't like,
Speaker 3: you know, this was he I don't think he was
Speaker 3: expecting much. But it's like he submitted the DNA. They had,
Speaker 3: you know, a house that had been broken into and
Speaker 3: in outside of Houston, Texas. A woman was killed and
Speaker 3: her car was stolen, and they had DNA and his
Speaker 3: fingerprints and the DNA matched. I mean, it was like
Speaker 3: amazing that the DNA matched and we all of a
Speaker 3: sudden knew who it was because they had fingerprints. There
Speaker 3: was a suspect, remember Detectas Terrell appearing at my apartment
Speaker 3: I lived. I was in my fifth year in school
Speaker 3: and I lived in an apartment at the of the
Speaker 3: outside of the Outside in Lexington, Kentucky. And so he
Speaker 3: came to my apartment and he had never come to
Speaker 3: my apartment before. And I was going, something's not right
Speaker 3: or something is strange. Why are you here? And he
Speaker 3: was like, you know, we have a suspect. This is
Speaker 3: who it is. He's going to be on America's Most
Speaker 3: Wanted in a couple of weeks. I want you to
Speaker 3: watch it. I want you to let me know if
Speaker 3: you think this is him. I never had to identify
Speaker 3: him because we had the DNA. It was ninety nine
Speaker 3: point nine percent sure that this was the guy. And
Speaker 3: but I did watch America's Most Wanted and they had
Speaker 3: footage of him defending himself in court. And when I
Speaker 3: heard his voice, it's because he changed his appearance a lot.
Speaker 3: He had a rap sheet going back to ninth the
Speaker 3: nineteen eighties. I mean he had been arrested and sent
Speaker 3: back to Mexico. He was a Mexican illegal immigrant in
Speaker 3: the United States, and I mean he had he had
Speaker 3: a long rap sheet and they had footage of him
Speaker 3: defending himself in court and I heard his voice and
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my gosh, that's him. Because all
Speaker 3: I had to do was hear his voice. I knew
Speaker 3: that voice. I knew that it was him. I mean
Speaker 3: you could have I could have closed my eyes and
Speaker 3: known that it was him. That I didn't need DNA
Speaker 3: to tell me that because I knew it was him. Uh.
Speaker 3: And you know then it was all of a sudden
Speaker 3: there was a man hunt. There was going to be
Speaker 3: a man hunt for you know, this person that they
Speaker 3: couldn't find then and y'all, but you know, all of
Speaker 3: a sudden we had a suspect and it was real like.
Speaker 3: And the sad part was is this. This was my
Speaker 3: worst fear in how I knew that we were going
Speaker 3: to solve my crime was that.
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Speaker 3: That it was going to happen again, and that you know,
Speaker 3: someone else was probably going to get hurt, get raped,
Speaker 3: possibly die. And unfortunately, that's exactly what occurred. And that's
Speaker 3: how we linked the crime was that it happened again,
Speaker 3: and that was like my worst dream coming true because
Speaker 3: I didn't want others to be hurt and for this
Speaker 3: to be happening again.
Speaker 7: Let's talk about this fatal error. Doesn't matter who did it,
Speaker 7: but the fatal air is that while this man hunt
Speaker 7: was on, the i INS was notified about information about
Speaker 7: this remindouce. So what happened with that information and you
Speaker 7: talk about other murders, what happened as a result of
Speaker 7: this error?
Speaker 3: So he actually there was a man hunt for him,
Speaker 3: and I mean he was put on the FBI's ten
Speaker 3: most wanted list. I mean it was pretty serious that
Speaker 3: they were trying to find this guy because he was
Speaker 3: committed more murders and he was, you know, killing more people,
Speaker 3: and his you know, number of people that he had
Speaker 3: killed was going up, and so they really wanted to
Speaker 3: find him. And he actually, you know, was put on
Speaker 3: the fbis ten most wanted list and they they actually
Speaker 3: he you know, used to travel between the United States
Speaker 3: and Mexico all the time. And they stopped him at
Speaker 3: a border stop between Texas, between Texas and in Mexico,
Speaker 3: and they did not have the computers link that told
Speaker 3: would tell them that he was wanted for murder, and
Speaker 3: so they let him go, and you know it, it
Speaker 3: was a huge mistake, and he killed four more people
Speaker 3: after they let him go. So you know that not
Speaker 3: only did they let him go and there was that error,
Speaker 3: but you know, and with errors like that, good things
Speaker 3: can come from that too, because that then the computer
Speaker 3: systems were linked. Hopefully that error will never ever happen again.
Speaker 3: But you know, four more people were killed after they
Speaker 3: let him go, So that was like a terrible error
Speaker 3: to happen that they would, you know, let him go
Speaker 3: and he would then come back in the United States
Speaker 3: and kill more people.
Speaker 7: You write that just weeks before the information was put
Speaker 7: into VISCAP database. December sixteenth, nineteen ninety eight. Doctor Claudia Benton,
Speaker 7: a pediatric neurologist researcher from Lima, Peru, originally was beaten
Speaker 7: to death and raped in her home in Southwest Houston.
Speaker 7: Beat her with a statuette nineteen times, also stabbed her
Speaker 7: with a huge kitchen knife and also unfortunately raped her
Speaker 7: as she lay dying. Her head was found in a
Speaker 7: plastic bag and serious overkill. And this is part of
Speaker 7: another disgusting aspect of it. Before killer left, he made
Speaker 7: himself a snack and opened up one of her daughter's
Speaker 7: Christmas presents and stole some souvenirs. Right, tell us about
Speaker 7: what police do once they have him in ycap and
Speaker 7: in short order he they're looking for him, But tell
Speaker 7: us what happens.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, he was put on the FBI's the
Speaker 3: most wanted lists and bounty hunters were definitely after him
Speaker 3: like that. There were there was lots and lots of
Speaker 3: people looking for him, and I think pressure was put
Speaker 3: on him by his family. He had a sister in
Speaker 3: the United States that actually had spoken with Detective Drew
Speaker 3: Carter or sorry Drew Carter, and he was a Texas
Speaker 3: Ranger and so his this this Texas Ranger had negotiated
Speaker 3: with Rassinda as his sister and was trying to just
Speaker 3: negotiate his surrender and so she ended up getting the
Speaker 3: reward money, which was fine with me because she did
Speaker 3: actually talk for Sendez into surrendering. He actually drove across
Speaker 3: the border in a beat up old truck. I mean,
Speaker 3: I can't imagine sitting on the other side in Texas
Speaker 3: and thinking, why, you know, is this person even going
Speaker 3: to show up? Is this gonna happen the way we
Speaker 3: think it's gonna happen. I mean, it did happen exactly
Speaker 3: like they had they had planned. I mean, he drove,
Speaker 3: drove in a truck, surrendered to Drew Carter, and was
Speaker 3: then flown to Houston. I mean, it was kind of
Speaker 3: unbelievable how the surrender occurred. Considering all the carnage and
Speaker 3: people that he had killed and terrible things that he
Speaker 3: had done, the surrender actually went very simply, and you know,
Speaker 3: with the mistakes that had occurred, uh that you know,
Speaker 3: the surrender went simply, and he was then in custody,
Speaker 3: and you know that it was over. The rampage was over.
Speaker 7: The The thing is that he did make statements, and
Speaker 7: so what do police get further information from him? What's
Speaker 7: his disposition about once he's already spent ten years in
Speaker 7: prison off and on over the years with this extensive
Speaker 7: criminal record, So what is his attitude with police? And
Speaker 7: in terms of some people clam up. Some people get
Speaker 7: a lawyer. What does he do in terms of police questioning.
Speaker 3: Well, he couldn't afford a lawyer, so he actually tells
Speaker 3: the court system that he wants us to move as
Speaker 3: quick as possible. And but he of course has given
Speaker 3: lawyers because he couldn't afford lawyers, so he's given lawyers.
Speaker 3: And you know, they tried to convince him that he
Speaker 3: wanted to plead insanity and that's so that's what he did.
Speaker 3: I think I think a lot of what he did
Speaker 3: was because others were telling him to. I think he
Speaker 3: really wanted things to go quickly and move fast and
Speaker 3: to you know, have it all be over with. And
Speaker 3: I think the the it did move, I guess pretty
Speaker 3: fast in the realm of trials and executions, I think.
Speaker 3: But you know, I think he did end up pleading insanity.
Speaker 3: He was found saying so, you know, but we had
Speaker 3: to go through all those parts of the trial, and
Speaker 3: so there was a trial on to figure out whether
Speaker 3: he was insane or sane. Then there was a trial
Speaker 3: and he was only tried on doctor Claudia Benton's trial.
Speaker 3: He was never tried on the other fourteen murders. And
Speaker 3: my attack that he had he had committed. We never
Speaker 3: got our our cases actually tried. He was only tried
Speaker 3: on doctor Claudia Benton's trial. So you know that that's
Speaker 3: and that's kind of all it took because it was
Speaker 3: you know, not not I guess, not a speedy trial
Speaker 3: in any way, but it was, you know, it ended
Speaker 3: the way we wanted it to. And I actually did
Speaker 3: testify in the trial. I had to testify during the
Speaker 3: penalty phase of the trial. And they brought during the
Speaker 3: penalty phase Texas it was happening in Houston, and they
Speaker 3: could actually bring in all of the murders that he
Speaker 3: had been accused of. They could they could have all
Speaker 3: everyone testify, all the family members, you know, myself. Uh,
Speaker 3: they brought in all those other victims' families and myself
Speaker 3: to testify. And so when I talk about the trial
Speaker 3: that it literally was one of the worst days of
Speaker 3: my life. It was terrible. I was so afraid to
Speaker 3: face him again. My I'm lucky that the prosecuting attorney,
Speaker 3: her name was Devin Anderson, and she was amazing and
Speaker 3: that she you know, really took great care in questioning me,
Speaker 3: and it was you know, I think that helped make
Speaker 3: it a little easier, and she told me, don't look
Speaker 3: to your left. I want you to only look at me.
Speaker 3: Your family will be behind me. Don't look to your left,
Speaker 3: that's where he'll be. And so I didn't. And you know,
Speaker 3: I had never been in the court in a courtroom before.
Speaker 3: I didn't know how things went. I cried through my
Speaker 3: entire testimony. I was so upset, but I did. I
Speaker 3: wanted to get through it. Like I said, I I
Speaker 3: knew that that that I was waiting for that day.
Speaker 3: I wanted to get through that day, and whatever it took,
Speaker 3: I wanted to get through it. And so I testified
Speaker 3: and he sat there stone cold. I didn't look at
Speaker 3: him until that point in the trial when they say,
Speaker 3: is the person who attacked you in the courtroom today?
Speaker 3: And I didn't know they really actually say that, that
Speaker 3: that's for real. And I was like, yes, he's here,
Speaker 3: and they were like, uh, could you please tell us
Speaker 3: what he's wearing? And so I actually had to look
Speaker 3: at him because I didn't know what. I had not
Speaker 3: looked at him. I literally had turned off my peripheral
Speaker 3: vision and I had not looked at him. But he
Speaker 3: was sitting there, stone cold face black eyes, like didn't
Speaker 3: have any emotion on his face after and I mean
Speaker 3: everyone in the courtroom was crying, even the jury was crying.
Speaker 3: Like everybody was crying after my testimony. And he just
Speaker 3: sat there stone cold. And I said, he's wearing a
Speaker 3: white button down shirt. The defense didn't question me. I
Speaker 3: literally was taken out of the courtroom. I was about
Speaker 3: to faint. I mean, I felt my hearing going inside
Speaker 3: my head. I was gonna faint, but they got me
Speaker 3: out of the courtroom in time. And you know that,
Speaker 3: then the jury deliberated, you know, and the jury was
Speaker 3: sequestered for I think it was around three months that
Speaker 3: they were sequestered. They weren't allowed to basically, you know,
Speaker 3: be and they had to stay all stay in the
Speaker 3: same hotel. They had to not read any news. They
Speaker 3: had to basically shut themselves off for the work from
Speaker 3: the world. And the only reason I know this is
Speaker 3: because one of the jurors wrote a book, and so
Speaker 3: he he says that he was chosen for the jury
Speaker 3: because he didn't believe in the death penalty, and and
Speaker 3: so he actually says that he was chosen for the
Speaker 3: jury because of that. And so you know, when I testified.
Speaker 3: He says that my testimony helped him change his mind
Speaker 3: that this person could get the death penalty and that
Speaker 3: he did deserve it because he had caused so much
Speaker 3: heartache and so much just hurting people, not only the victims,
Speaker 3: but the families, all the people that loved all those
Speaker 3: victims that he had killed. And he was given the
Speaker 3: death penalty. It was, you know, the ultimate price for
Speaker 3: his crimes. And he even when he was given the
Speaker 3: death penalty, he wanted that to hurry up. He was like,
Speaker 3: all right, you gave me the death penty, Like, let's go.
Speaker 3: Like he was ready to kill me now, you know.
Speaker 3: But there was an automatic appeal. It was, you know,
Speaker 3: it turned into a kind of a long process because
Speaker 3: again the Mexican consulate got involved because they don't have
Speaker 3: the death penalty, and whether he surrendered correctly or not,
Speaker 3: I mean a bunch of questions were raised, and I
Speaker 3: think it had nothing to do with him. I think
Speaker 3: if he had had his choice, he would have, you know,
Speaker 3: give me the death penalty right now, because he I mean,
Speaker 3: I think he was done. I think he you know,
Speaker 3: didn't didn't want to be in the world anymore. Like
Speaker 3: he was done he had, I think didn't. He didn't
Speaker 3: want to go to jail, and so but he ended up,
Speaker 3: I guess, being in jail, and you know, with all
Speaker 3: of his appeals that occurred, he was executed in June
Speaker 3: of two thousand and six. So he is not in
Speaker 3: the world anymore, and he was executed, and I feel
Speaker 3: safer today because he is not in the world, and
Speaker 3: I think I was able to heal more and in
Speaker 3: a different way because he's no longer in the world anymore.
Speaker 3: I don't have to worry that he's gonna get out
Speaker 3: and come and get me, or that he you know,
Speaker 3: he's gonna They're not normal, they're not like things that
Speaker 3: probably would actually ever happen, but I still feel I
Speaker 3: felt those things. I felt like he could get out
Speaker 3: and he would come and get me. And you know
Speaker 3: that I was living in fear just because he was
Speaker 3: still in the world. And I think that that's what
Speaker 3: went away when when he was executed.
Speaker 7: You talk about his behavior behind bars, want and the
Speaker 7: speed up the death penalty process. In part it's sounding
Speaker 7: kind of a little misguided, but he was admitting to
Speaker 7: other and helping to verify other victims and other bodies
Speaker 7: and places where he had buried them and such. You
Speaker 7: say that the links got up to that they had
Speaker 7: linked him to fifteen deaths, even though he had confessed
Speaker 7: to twenty. So they verified fifteen murders in total, brutal murders.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right. They couldn't. They didn't verify I
Speaker 3: guess some of them they never got enough information to
Speaker 3: verify them. And you know, to this day, there still
Speaker 3: could be more, and I think that there probably could
Speaker 3: be that we just don't know about. But they did.
Speaker 3: They did link him to fifteen that we know of today.
Speaker 7: And we're talking about a pastor named Norman Sernik and
Speaker 7: his wife found dead in bed, their heads bashed in
Speaker 7: by a sledgehammer from their tool shed. That was another hallmark.
Speaker 7: He would improvise with a weapon that he found at
Speaker 7: the scene, raped and sodomized. This was pastor Skip's birthday
Speaker 7: is forty seventh. Incredible cases against vulnerable widows, older people.
Speaker 7: Not that it's good anybody's young or old, but some
Speaker 7: of them. And his signature was to pick very vulnerable people.
Speaker 7: And so part of to dismiss his insanity, I mean,
Speaker 7: it is absurd to think that he didn't know right
Speaker 7: from wrong. They had all kinds of things where he
Speaker 7: had planning, he used cunning, he picked vulnerable people. They
Speaker 7: dismissed that insanity defense completely, didn't they, despite the experts
Speaker 7: to testified that's right.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, that's that is what insanity is.
Speaker 3: It's if you know the difference between right and wrong.
Speaker 3: And I think that they very much proved that he
Speaker 3: did know the difference between right and wrong. And yet
Speaker 3: I think somebody has to be somewhat crazy, and I
Speaker 3: think there's a difference between insane and crazy, But I
Speaker 3: think that there has to be something wrong with your
Speaker 3: mind to be able to kill fifteen people, that that
Speaker 3: there's something not right. And so I do believe that
Speaker 3: he had something not right, that that something was definitely wrong.
Speaker 3: But I do believe that he was saying that he
Speaker 3: knew the difference between right and wrong, he knew what
Speaker 3: he was doing. I mean, he asked for forgiveness before
Speaker 3: his execution. He knew what he was doing was wrong,
Speaker 3: and so that's you know that. I mean, he proved
Speaker 3: that again and again.
Speaker 7: But he was attempting to toy with the media, telling
Speaker 7: them this story that he was half angel half human
Speaker 7: and other religious mumbo jumbo to somewhat give this insane
Speaker 7: insanity defense some credibility. But at the same time, there
Speaker 7: were letters to his his common law wife that just
Speaker 7: seemed to be totally sane and just about mundane topics.
Speaker 7: So sort of yeah, I mean, I.
Speaker 3: Think that part of part of why he was doing that,
Speaker 3: you know, the trying to kind of get some notoriety,
Speaker 3: was that he was trying to maybe possibly make money
Speaker 3: for his common law wife. And he had a daughter
Speaker 3: that that you know, was born, and I mean I
Speaker 3: believe that he was probably trying to you know, make
Speaker 3: money for them, and and so you know, and and
Speaker 3: you know, his mom testified during the trial that she
Speaker 3: that she had dropped him on his head when he
Speaker 3: was a baby and things like that, and people are like,
Speaker 3: does that make you mad? And I'm like, I'm now
Speaker 3: a mom, Like I understand if my child, if this
Speaker 3: is my child, I would try to explain, I mean,
Speaker 3: something that I had done to cause this person to
Speaker 3: be this way. Like I get it now. I mean,
Speaker 3: now that I'm a mom, I understand why she did
Speaker 3: that and why she feels like it's her fault, because
Speaker 3: you can't you know, rationalize how you raised your child
Speaker 3: and that this is your child now that's doing these
Speaker 3: horrible things. You know. So I've got a lot more empathy,
Speaker 3: I think, and grace for his family and you know,
Speaker 3: people that loved him and what they have now gone through.
Speaker 3: I think he just caused a lot of heartache all around.
Speaker 3: It wasn't just with his victims and their families. It's
Speaker 3: his family. I mean, it's just it's a lot of
Speaker 3: heartache and and you know it was all caused by him.
Speaker 7: We have to get back to where you your process
Speaker 7: for overcoming this trauma to a to a degree that
Speaker 7: you could go back to school and focus and get
Speaker 7: on with your life. And we did skip over just
Speaker 7: I'm sorry, but we missed this faithful meeting with Jacob
Speaker 7: Pendleton back in nineteen ninety eight. So just tell us
Speaker 7: briefly about this meeting and sort of what happened before
Speaker 7: we can later fast forward to what happens later the
Speaker 7: good parts of your life.
Speaker 3: Sure, sure, well, you know, I think my life was
Speaker 3: pretty great after when I went back to school. It
Speaker 3: was really one month later, and it was because I
Speaker 3: felt normal at school. I needed to take back some
Speaker 3: control and control for me was going back to school.
Speaker 3: I also don't know how my parents let me do that,
Speaker 3: now that I know, you know what I know, But
Speaker 3: they did let me, and I went back to school
Speaker 3: and I felt normal at school. It felt good to
Speaker 3: be back in control and to be living my life.
Speaker 3: And I actually dropped all my classes that year except
Speaker 3: for one because I couldn't. You know, I'd missed a
Speaker 3: month of school. I couldn't keep up, but I kept
Speaker 3: one class and so I was bored. And so I
Speaker 3: got a job, and I got a job at an
Speaker 3: outdoor store. My friend, my srity sister, helped me get
Speaker 3: that job, and I met this young man while I
Speaker 3: was working. He was in the ski department. I was
Speaker 3: a cashier and his name was Jacob. He I didn't
Speaker 3: know him before the attack, and so I was a
Speaker 3: little afraid to kind of get into relationship with him.
Speaker 3: But luckily, you know, my sorority sister had worked at
Speaker 3: that store for a long time, so she had you know,
Speaker 3: they were those were her friends, and she had told
Speaker 3: them about what had happened, and they all knew about
Speaker 3: what had happened, and you know, I think it was
Speaker 3: a very normal relationship for you know what it could
Speaker 3: have what it could have been. I think there was
Speaker 3: a lot more nights that I cried. There was a
Speaker 3: lot of you know in crying and being upset. But
Speaker 3: it was a very normal relationship. And I think that
Speaker 3: that felt good too, that I could get, you know,
Speaker 3: back into I could trust someone and get into a
Speaker 3: relationship that I felt safe in and and I did
Speaker 3: feel very safe in it. There was, you know, a
Speaker 3: breakup around the year anniversary of the attack. That's that's
Speaker 3: the story of uh, Jacob and I is a long one,
Speaker 3: a very drawn out story. But you know today I
Speaker 3: actually am married to him, So it's a it's a
Speaker 3: twenty year story of you know, some breakups, some uh
Speaker 3: getting back together, some you know times of dating, not
Speaker 3: really you know, getting along very well sometimes. But you know,
Speaker 3: we've been married now thirteen years this year, and you know,
Speaker 3: he's he's an amazing guy, Like he has been through
Speaker 3: my entire healing journey with me. I mean he was there,
Speaker 3: you know three I met him basically two or three
Speaker 3: months after the attack, so he was there through all
Speaker 3: of my healing. He has been there. He you know,
Speaker 3: has supported me through all of my healing and so
Speaker 3: it's I I couldn't ask for a better person to
Speaker 3: have in my corner to support me and too you know,
Speaker 3: basically let me heal how I need to, because that's
Speaker 3: that's what he does. He you know, doesn't try to
Speaker 3: fix me. He lets me do what I need to do.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's about why our relationship works
Speaker 3: so well, you know that. And I talked I talked
Speaker 3: before about my support system, and I think what's been
Speaker 3: amazing for me and my healing has been being able
Speaker 3: to talk about what happened. I was asked two years after,
Speaker 3: about a year a year and a half after the attack,
Speaker 3: to do some public speaking, and I thought, this is crazy,
Speaker 3: Like I would I can't do public speaking. I don't
Speaker 3: like public speaking. That was my worst class in college. Like,
Speaker 3: this is not something I can do. But she was like,
Speaker 3: it's a safety talk, you know, you could talk about
Speaker 3: your experience. And I'm like, you're crazy, Like I don't
Speaker 3: know anything about safety. And then as I thought about
Speaker 3: it some more, I was like, well, if I could
Speaker 3: give them some awareness by telling them my story and
Speaker 3: telling them what happened, then I can do something. Uh.
Speaker 3: And so you know, I started doing a safety talk
Speaker 3: and people really started, people were listening, and I really
Speaker 3: was just talking. That's that's what I do. You know,
Speaker 3: I'm not a professional speaker today. Even I'm not a
Speaker 3: professional speaker. I just talk. I just tell you my story.
Speaker 3: And that's, you know, what I've always done. But it's
Speaker 3: so healing for me. It's so healing for me to
Speaker 3: talk about it. It loses its power over you. The
Speaker 3: more you can talk about it, the more it loses
Speaker 3: its power. That's why today I can talk about it
Speaker 3: and not cry and not get upset. It's lost its
Speaker 3: power over me. I'm I'm now living this life that
Speaker 3: is free from all that anger and revenge and feelings
Speaker 3: of hate and all those feelings that are bad. I've
Speaker 3: let those go. I've let those go with with my attacker.
Speaker 3: They're his fault, they go with him. I've let them
Speaker 3: go and I can live this happy life. I choose
Speaker 3: to live this happy life, this you know, life of
Speaker 3: helping others and to you know, do what I can
Speaker 3: to try to help other survivors in their healing. And
Speaker 3: you know, that's that's been kind of my mission, is
Speaker 3: that you know, I got a lot, a lot of
Speaker 3: healing from other survivors. I sneaked out survivors' books. I
Speaker 3: wanted to read them. I wanted to know that I
Speaker 3: wasn't going crazy, that what I was feeling was normal,
Speaker 3: that other survivors were going through this too. And so
Speaker 3: I got a lot of power from hearing from other survivors,
Speaker 3: and a lot of power in my healing hearing from
Speaker 3: other survivors. So I think that that's a good A
Speaker 3: big reason why I wanted to, you know, help, why
Speaker 3: I want to help others is because I got so
Speaker 3: much from other survivors.
Speaker 7: Not only the influence of doctor Pardon Me, Detective Surrell,
Speaker 7: and Texas Ranger Carter, but also another police officer with
Speaker 7: a vision, Brian Turpin, gets together with you after his wife.
Speaker 7: Here's one of your inspirational talks. You become quite a
Speaker 7: prolific and sought after speaker, and so he has an
Speaker 7: idea for something bigger to unite some of the services
Speaker 7: and some of the things you think that are missing
Speaker 7: when people want to report and they come up with
Speaker 7: a vision. So tell us a little bit about the
Speaker 7: vision and what happens and what the work did you
Speaker 7: do to try to secure a building? Tell us a
Speaker 7: little bit about this transformation to get to Holly's House.
Speaker 3: Yes, we well, we worked for over four and a
Speaker 3: half years to develop Holly's House. Brian Turpin called me
Speaker 3: on the phone. He said, you know, he called me
Speaker 3: up and he just and I was working for my
Speaker 3: dad at the time. I was doing exactly what I
Speaker 3: was planning to do, working for my dad, you know,
Speaker 3: kind of working my way up in his company. That
Speaker 3: was my pro that was what I was gonna do.
Speaker 3: But Brian Turpin called me and he says, you know,
Speaker 3: I heard you, My wife heard you speak, and we're
Speaker 3: really wanting to start an advocacy center in Evansville, and
Speaker 3: we think you should be involved. And I thought I
Speaker 3: had to google what an advocacy center was because I
Speaker 3: had no idea, but it so made sense. So what
Speaker 3: an advocacy center is as a it's a safe reporting
Speaker 3: location for victims of crime. So know, it's a it's
Speaker 3: a safe place that they can come. They don't have
Speaker 3: to go to the police department. They can come and
Speaker 3: they can be interviewed in a one interview process, and
Speaker 3: it's safer, it is more admissible in court. It helps
Speaker 3: get more perpetrators in jail. It helps, you know, it
Speaker 3: helps victims. And so, you know, as I realized that,
Speaker 3: I'm like, I would love to be involved, and he's like, okay,
Speaker 3: well we'd like to name it after you. And I thought, well,
Speaker 3: if you're going to name it after me, I might
Speaker 3: have to be a little more involved than I than
Speaker 3: you know, we might need a partner up here. So
Speaker 3: we did. We partnered up. We worked four and a
Speaker 3: half years to get Holly's House opened. We were determined
Speaker 3: to open Holly's House as a nonprofit. We wanted to
Speaker 3: open one debt free, and so we were constantly talking
Speaker 3: to the community and anyone that would listen to try
Speaker 3: to support us in our efforts to get Holly's House started.
Speaker 3: So we talked to the Building Trades Commission and we
Speaker 3: had secured a buildings that first with the library, the
Speaker 3: board of the Library. We had to secure our building.
Speaker 3: It was an old library that we secured through a
Speaker 3: lot of talk and proposition. We actually you know, got
Speaker 3: that library donated to us. And then we had to
Speaker 3: get the labor donated to us to be able to
Speaker 3: renovate the building. So we met with the Building Trades
Speaker 3: and they all got on board to renovate the building
Speaker 3: for us, and all the labor unions got involved and
Speaker 3: they you know, did all the work with their apprentices
Speaker 3: to get Holly's House renovated. And so we opened in
Speaker 3: two thousand and eight, in September of two thousand and eight,
Speaker 3: and we opened one hundred percent debt free, and we
Speaker 3: are a child in an adult avacy center, So we
Speaker 3: served children victims as well as adult victims, and we
Speaker 3: give them a safe place to report that crime happening.
Speaker 3: And then we've also i guess furthered our services and
Speaker 3: that now we try to help prevent these crimes from happening.
Speaker 3: We teach a program in our local schools called Think First,
Speaker 3: Stay Safe, and we try to prevent these types of
Speaker 3: you know, child especially child sexual abuse, child abuse from happening,
Speaker 3: and so it teaches kindergarten through fifth grade children the
Speaker 3: lures that predators use to try to make them victims,
Speaker 3: and so, you know, it's it's, you know, we want
Speaker 3: to prevent these crimes from happening, and we that's you know,
Speaker 3: Holly's House serves the local our community in Indiana, Southern Indiana, Evansville, Indiana,
Speaker 3: but we also serve our surrounding counties, and there are
Speaker 3: advocacy centers like this across the United States. There's child
Speaker 3: advocacy centers across the United States. So they're in many
Speaker 3: people's communities and you may not even know what they're doing,
Speaker 3: and you hopefully never have to go to one, because
Speaker 3: if you do have to go to one, it means
Speaker 3: that a child has been a used and that they
Speaker 3: need to be interviewed. So you know, you you it's
Speaker 3: the thing in your community that you hope you never
Speaker 3: have to use. But then when something like this happens
Speaker 3: to your loved one, it is the most amazing organization
Speaker 3: to have in your community because it would be the
Speaker 3: process would be so much more difficult without that advocacy
Speaker 3: center in your community. And so that's you know, that
Speaker 3: was a missing piece in our community, and it was
Speaker 3: a labor of love and a lot of tears to
Speaker 3: get Hollysouse open. It was not easy, but you know,
Speaker 3: it is an amazing resource for our community.
Speaker 7: You talk about stepping down as the executive director, a
Speaker 7: lot of stress and then realizing that all this responsibility
Speaker 7: do you still have to take care of yourself? And
Speaker 7: then some really really happy news happened, tell us about
Speaker 7: the burths of your sons.
Speaker 3: Sure, So we I actually left Holly's house and we
Speaker 3: were in the adoption process. We were suffering from infertility,
Speaker 3: and so we were actually in the adoption process and
Speaker 3: but simultaneously we were doing fertility treatment. So it's like
Speaker 3: we were gonna get a baby one way or another.
Speaker 3: And so we ended up after our fertility treatment, we
Speaker 3: ended up pregnant. And it was after seven years of infertility,
Speaker 3: and we ended up being pregnant with our son, who
Speaker 3: is now five years old. And I mean, it was
Speaker 3: the greatest gifts that I've ever been given. I mean,
Speaker 3: I I didn't even know that I how much I
Speaker 3: wanted to be a mother till I had him. And
Speaker 3: it was like my greatest dream come true. I didn't
Speaker 3: know that your heart could be outside of your body
Speaker 3: like that, that you could love something so much. And
Speaker 3: you know, his name is William Christopher and we named
Speaker 3: him William Christopher and Christopher is after Christopher Meyer, my
Speaker 3: boyfriend that was killed. So he has a very special name.
Speaker 3: And he actually has a bear that was made with
Speaker 3: a pair of Chris's favorite jeans. My my friend Adrian
Speaker 3: actually had a stuffed bear made from a pair of
Speaker 3: Chris's jeans, so he has, you know, that bear. He
Speaker 3: doesn't know, right, I mean, he he knows a little
Speaker 3: bit now that being he's five, he knows kind of
Speaker 3: who Chris is. I don't think he you know, we
Speaker 3: keep pictures of Chris in our house, and we definitely
Speaker 3: keep his memory alive. I don't think he really realizes,
Speaker 3: you know, that he's that he knows he's named after him,
Speaker 3: but I don't think he knows exactly who he is.
Speaker 3: I think he knows he's in heaven and that he's
Speaker 3: not in the world, but you know, he doesn't really
Speaker 3: know why. And that's you know that. And we actually
Speaker 3: have another son now as well. We did that whole
Speaker 3: fertility process again and so now we have our two boys,
Speaker 3: and you know, our our lives are complete. This is
Speaker 3: we're done having children now. And but our two boys
Speaker 3: are probably the greatest gift and the most am things
Speaker 3: in our lives.
Speaker 7: So it's an amazing, uplifting book. We didn't even go
Speaker 7: into a lot of the incredible adventure when the police
Speaker 7: you cooperate with America's Most Wanted and John Walsh, and
Speaker 7: it aids in the capture and the helps and just
Speaker 7: the incredible national interest in this story and you in particular,
Speaker 7: and so it was we just touched on a little
Speaker 7: bit of that. I want to thank you very much,
Speaker 7: Holly Dunn for coming on and talking about Soul Survivor
Speaker 7: inspiring two story of coming face to face with the
Speaker 7: infamous railroad killer has been my pleasure, and thank you
Speaker 7: very much. For those that might want to find this book,
Speaker 7: or do you have a Facebook page or a website?
Speaker 7: Is there any way people might contact you or look
Speaker 7: at other work?
Speaker 3: Sure? So the book website is just Sole Survivorbook dot
Speaker 3: com and that's s O L. E. Survivor Book dot
Speaker 3: com and they can go to that website and learn
Speaker 3: more about me. I'm also on all the social media outlets,
Speaker 3: as Holly K done, So I do have a Facebook
Speaker 3: page and Instagram in Twitter, so I can be found
Speaker 3: definitely on the social media sites. And you know, I
Speaker 3: love to hear from my supporters. I love to hear
Speaker 3: from the people that have helped me get to where
Speaker 3: I am today. So now you guys all listening, and
Speaker 3: you guys are all part of my healing process too,
Speaker 3: and so that you know that's every time I tell
Speaker 3: my story I have you know the people that are
Speaker 3: part of my healing process.
Speaker 7: Well, thank you very much. It's been an uplifting interview
Speaker 7: for a change that's pretty rare. Thank you, Thank you
Speaker 7: very much, and have a great evening. Thank you very
Speaker 7: much for the same.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks for having me. Thank care. Bye n