Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: These guys are your favorites, so light Shay, subscribe and
rade it five star s.
Speaker 1: Me grates on us today and listening watching lim always
keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and
James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 2: You are William Rolling.
Speaker 3: Born in Cliff.
Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Bobo. How you doing today?
Speaker 3: Pretty good? Pretty good? How are you doing?
Speaker 2: Nothing's ruined my day yet, but it is like ten
in the morning, so we'll see. Ready, get ready, it's coming.
It's still early. I'm an optimist. No, but things are good.
There's been a documentary film crew in town the last
couple of weeks, two weeks straight, so I've been doing
an extraordinary amount of time in the woods last couple
of weeks. Really interesting things have been coming up as well.
It's been great, really great film company. The two lead folks,
the producers, are married couple. They're fantastic. They become I think,
pretty good friends at this point with us, and I
think we gave them some really good experiences that hopefully
translate well to camera. If some of these things even
make it to camera, some may not. We'll see. Who's
we well, the wi is I guess the folks at
the NABC, because we've been kind of helping them out's
along the way. Like we took them out the other
night to a spot that we have called the Willows
for a night thing, you know, just to get a
little bit of night stuff on camera. Nothing happened at all,
but the Willows is great. There's been two or three
sidings on this big chunk of private property that we
have access to. Yeah, it's kind of a you know
in the general area of bull Run Watershed, which you
know you hear me talk about all the time. So
that was pretty cool.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 2: I heard from a rumor from one of my employees
that somebody from bull Run the water Department came into
the museum and briefly popped in and said, all right,
well got ahead to work. I work over at the
water shedding. Oh really, So I think that a number
was exchanged. So maybe we could hear something from one
of those folks, which would be fantastic. There's been a
lot of stuff going on as far as track finds lately.
Also in the last three or four weeks, everybody hears
me talking about Easter Island all the time. A recent
find at Easter Island has been a very interesting hand print,
actually three handprints in two different locations, and each one
seems to represent a different individual, which is really interesting
because you know, I think everybody, all the listeners know that.
You know, I'm not interested in showing sasquatches are real.
I already think they are. I'm trying to learn about
what they do. There's social dynamics and all that kind
of stuff. So the fact that we have three different
sized handprints from two different locations, I think is pretty interesting.
One of the locations had a medium size handprint and
a smaller handprint. I didn't judge them to be cast
at the time, but I'm kind of kicking myself for
that right now. So I intend to go back out
tomorrow and try to cast those. We'll see if I
can do it or not. I mean, everybody hears me
talking about having large blobs of unidentifiable plaster in my garage,
and it's one hundred percent true.
Speaker 3: We'll see.
Speaker 2: I might come back with a few more blobs of
plaster tomorrow. But the interesting thing about the Easter Island
situation right now is that, Okay, so that one road
gave me a medium and then a smaller handprint, probably
about the size of my hand, maybe is a small one.
But the other location, which is a little bit deeper
than we tend to go in this one particular area,
I got a really big handprint I guess, probably thirteen
inches wide. And then, mind you, the all the fingers
are split out very widely. There's traces of all five fingers,
three of them impressed pretty well? Are four of them
impressed pretty well? The middle finger, that digit didn't really
come down in its full length, so you just have
like the base or a next to the palm structure,
I guess. But nearby, just like maybe fifty seventy yards away,
we found a very large footprint, like a seventeen inch footprint. Now,
I did not see any indication that it was a
double strike, because a lot of double strikes happen out there,
But I didn't see any indication of a double strike
at all. It just seemed like and there was more
than one footprint too. There were two identifiable footprints in
the trackway, and they weren't consecutive. They were you know,
like maybe I think was a right I missed the
left and then the next right, I got to the
rights in forest stuff. But yeah, a seventeen inch individual
which I have never seen in that particular area, and
which is probably responsible for that handprint that we got
that I cast the other day, and also likely responsible
for that handprint that we got. I think it was
in twenty twenty three, we got a really interesting handprint
that I initially thought was a footprint, it was so large.
But when I cast it and got it back and
started examining it, it's clearly a handprint of some sort.
Speaker 3: What's these things you used their hands? Like?
Speaker 4: What is it like steep train? Like, what's the context
you're found as handprints?
Speaker 2: Well, it's actually a variety of handprints. The one back
in twenty twenty three was on an island in the
middle of a creek, you know, like one of these
just you know, it's not a big creek by any means,
you know, fifteen feet across or something, and there's this
a patch of land in the middle of it. And
it was down on the ground, not even really on
a slope, a slight slope and not you know, nothing
I would really call like an up ill slope or anything.
Then I initially saw that impression because of the finger marks.
There were black holes in the ground. I mean, I
thought those were toe marks. I thought those were too
impressions at first, but so I put a plaster in it.
But it turns out that those were fingers. But the
most recent hand prints, the large one that was found
nearby the seventeen inch track, was actually on the berm,
on the side of a road of an abandoned logging road,
Like I mentioned, that's what I'd like to walk, these
abandoned logging roads. And it was about a mile or
two back, a mile and a half pack or something
like that. But it was on the berm above that,
but not very far above that. It was maybe two
feet above it, like on the berm. So the thing
had to been like on the ground or you know,
or kneeling down or you know, squatting down or sitting down.
I don't know. I didn't find any sign of what
it was doing except for a right handprint on the
ground or you know, next to the ground. And then
of course the other I'm actually thinking about it, I
found another handprint too, not that one of the handprints
was in a moss sort of wall about fifteen feet
above the road about a mile away from where this
other large one was, and I was the medium sized
handprint near as I can tell, it was in the
moss above the road, about fifteen feet up the hill,
because I saw that something had disturbed the hillside on
the berm, and so upon closer inspection we found what
I think when I'm interpreting as a handprint. And then,
of course, on the location where there were two handprints
in close proximity to one another, about fifteen feet apart,
they were about again on the berm, next to an
abandoned logging road. The medium sized print was about four
feet above the level of the road and the smaller
print was about two or three feet above the level
of the road. So yeah, mostly on berms, I find
a lot of tracks on the berms on the side
of logging roads, because most logging roads are so hard
packed that they don't really take an impression at all,
but that the diagonal sloping area next to logging roads
is looser. It's not as hard packed, so if something
goes up or down there, it's likely or more likely
at least to leave some sort of discernible impression that
you can make some sort of sense out of although
I have found handprints just a flat on the ground too,
in the middle of like muddy muddy road areas too,
but not very well defined, but.
Speaker 3: Breaking like a couple of there was probably drinking.
Speaker 2: No, no, I don't actually no, I think that. And
you know, when I was out with Shane in the
Olympics in whatever February or whatever that was, we found
the handprint at the same place basically about you know,
four three to four or five feet off the ground
on the side of a logging road on the berm.
Basically there was no water necessarily associated with them, maybe
in the Olympics or some water pooling up. I guess
on the guttery.
Speaker 3: The creek one you don't think it was.
Speaker 2: I don't know, because it wasn't close enough to the
water to be drinking, like it seems like. I don't know,
of course, you know, I mean, it's all guesswork at
this point, but I'm guessing at some sort of like
maybe I'll call it hunting behavior, although it could just
be avoidance behavior as well, or just like observing behavior
where they dropped to the ground and then they watch
whatever they're watching. The one I fid the big print
from the other day. If it would have dropped to
the ground and put its hand there, it would have
been sitting literally on the side of the abandoned logging road.
So it's not like it was hiding from a car
or something like that. It was probably watching an animal
or doing something out there. I don't know. And of
course in this general area, it's very strategic. This area.
I was walking on this road a couple of years
ago and I was alone. Back there. I was walking
down and I was overlooking the creek bed below me.
You know, drops pretty steep down there, about fifty hundred
feet down there's a creek, and I remember I made
a noise like a whoop or something like that, just
I don't know why. I usually don't make any noises
like that, but in this one occasion I did. And
while I was watching down there in the creek, I
saw a mountain lion run up the slope on the
other side after I made the noise. So there's something
about this area that predators cleterally like. You know, whether
it's the mountain lion that I observed with my own
eyes or a sasquatch that I did not observe but
you know, left some indications of this presence just this
past week.
Speaker 3: So right, that's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is cool. It is cool. Yeah.
Speaker 4: It always makes you one of the like what were
they doing? Like what was in their mind set? Well,
why did they do that right here? Like why did
they get down put their hand down there? You get
more questions and answers as usual.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know every time I go out, I come
back wondering more and more about these things. Oh and
I was out with some friends, like actually this past
week in addition to all this other stuff I've been doing,
and went out to the Outer Rim this past week
as well. And two of the people I was with
saw a Sasquatch while I was standing thirty feet from them,
and I mest no way, yeah, yeah, as I'm apt to,
I was up ahead of them because it's a cross
country trek, you know, when I was about thirty feet
ahead and we had to stop for whatever reason, and
one of my friends looked up on the hill there
and he saw what he thought was a stump, but
it had the shape of someone like maybe if you
put like lean forward to put your hands on your
knees and watch something that's kind of the general shape
it had, apparently, and the other friend that was there
standing next to him saw two big black blobs in
the woods. And then the first person who saw the
more human like shape, it had shoulders in a head,
but he couldn't see any details. He said. He when
he's watching it, trying to figure out it's had to stump. Apparently,
the thing shifted its weight to its other leg and moved,
like visibly moved. He goes, oh, my gosh, and then
like turns. The other person said, did you see that?
And when they both looked up there, the second person
only saw one dark shape instead of two, and then
the other and the first guy who saw it didn't
see it at all then, so it had left. End
of just a period of time where you turned her
head and you looked back, it had disappeared. So they
got me immediately, of course. And then I went up
there and I found a track. I found a track
about ten feet away from where they placed me, Like
it's in that zone right there, you know, And I
looked around and sure there was a fourteen inch track
in the ground then the forest stuff and looked pretty
good to me. We were on the track though we
didn't stop to cast it, though. I may be going
out there tomorrow to do just that, so we will see.
I've got so I've got to bring a lot of
plaster tomorrow. I think there's gonna be some casting in
my very near future. Yeah, yeah, stay tuned for more
Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right
back after these messages. Yeah, lots going on, man, lots
going on. And then oh that's not even the end
of it all man sack Squatch came by the museum.
You're familiar with that guy, right, I.
Speaker 4: Never met it bout it, Yeah, lying like no knowing
of each other for like, geez, almost fifteen years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's a real nice guy, real nice guy.
So yeah, he came by and he invited us all
to the gig that night, but I had I had
to work with the film crew that night, so I
couldn't go, unfortunately. But maybe next time he does pop
into town, you know, every once in a while.
Speaker 3: So does he get hired to play as Sasquatch. He's
like a real musician that plays gigs.
Speaker 2: Oh, he's a real musician that plays gigs. That's what
I thought. Oh yeah, he's great. He's great. Man. I
saw him for the first time at one of these
Tennessee things that I did a couple of years ago.
I think you were at that one, Matt. I couldn't
can't remember, but you can tell he was pro too, man,
because he just plays the backing tracks, you know. He
does funny songs like Careless Whisper and that stuff, you know.
But he's a good player. He's like a legit player.
And I remember on stage at the Tennessee thing and
there's like a sea of people. It's a big event, right,
There's thousands of people there. He's on stage and in
the middle of the song, the power went off on stage,
you know, and he plays the backing tracks, so there's
nothing he can do about that. And I'm thinking, oh,
that's a bummer, and everybody you can hear the audible,
oh like in the audience and that sort of stuff.
But this guy Sasquatch and this is this is when
I knew he was pro. Instead of just some hack
trying to make money off the Bigfoot thing, he kept going.
He turned that into an opportunity to perform. So he
just he just turned it up to eleven. So to speak,
not the volume because he was unamplified, but turned his
antics up to eleven, went to the front of the stage,
and I jumped off the stage and was walking around
in the audience playing, and everybody just loved it, like
he saved the show. He wasn't going to accept defeat
because of a technical issue. He turned that technical issue
into part of the show and then outperformed what he
probably would have done anyway. So I have great admiration
for professionals, professional entertainers and musicians who make it happen
no matter what the case, instead of bailing out and
feeling sorry for themselves. So he was clearly well pro.
There's just no other way to say it. He's pro.
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, So I guess we're going to dive
into some William Rowe report act Sean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we've been doing these deep dives lately in
the articles or particular items in the Bigfoot lore and
whatever else, and we thought a fun way to deal
or fun thing to do today would be the William
Rowe siding, which of course is one of the old
standards I guess of the old time Bigfoot stuff. I
think the if I remember right, this it happened in
nineteen fifty seven, so it even predates the word bigfoot
fifty five. Well, there you go. It pretty eates the
word bigfoot in the general consciousness. Some pretty cool stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he reported it in fifty seven, but yeah, the event,
as he tells it, occurred in nineteen fifty five. So yeah,
when we were doing those deep dives on some of
the more classic articles, we had in the discussion mentioned like,
oh maybe we should do this with like the William
Rose siding or Albert Osman or something, and so a
lot of emails came in saying, oh, please cover those.
Speaker 3: So yeah, this seems like a good time to cover
Old Bill.
Speaker 2: Nice old Bill.
Speaker 1: Old Bill wrote, Well, I do have the affidavit pulled
up here, I think let me refer to my reference materials.
But I do believe that he had actually initially submitted
his story. Yeah, he had initially submitted his story to
a Vancouver newspaper called The Province, and that was in
response to the press coverage that was happening about the
centennial Sasquatch hunt that you know, John Green was a
part of that was occurring in like those meetings there
in and around Vancouver and Harrison, Hot Springs, Agasies, etc.
And so that's what prompted Roe, reading that press coverage
to submit his story to that newspaper. And then he
was subsequently interviewed on air by a Canadian radio personality,
a guy named Jack Webster, and that interview is preserved
by Todd Prescott at the Sasquatch Archives. So I will
put a link to that in the show notes if
you want to hear it. And then subsequent to that,
then Roe gave a sworn statement I think at the
behest of John Green, and so probably the most detailed account.
I mean, between all three of those you get a
pretty detailed picture. But I did send you guys the affidavit,
so maybe we can use that as the central narrative.
Speaker 2: Suret, how do we want to work this?
Speaker 1: I think we do it like we were doing those papers,
and just you know, read through it and see what
thoughts emerge as we read through it. I mean, we
could read it verbatim or just go to the most
relevant portions, but it's not terribly long, so I think
it would be easy to get through, or at least,
you know, we could cover the fact that this comes
from an affidavit that was sworn in the city of Edmonton, Alberta,
on August twenty fifty seven, and it opens with him
basically saying that, you know, as a young man, apparently
he grew up in Michigan, he's always been really interested
in spotting animals, animal behavior, of following animals. And then
he quote supported family in northern Alberta by hunting and trapping,
spending many wild hours observing wild things, and he says
the most incredible experience I ever had with a wild
creature occurred near a little town called and I've never
known do you guys know how to pronounce this, because
I've only ever read it, I've never heard it said.
Speaker 2: No, I don't know how to say that.
Speaker 1: Tete Jon Cash, I have no idea sounds sounds right?
What is called TJC for short in British Columbia, about
eighty miles west of Jasper, Alberta. He continues, I'd been
working on the highway near TJC for about two years.
In October nineteen fifty five, I decided to climb five
miles up Micah Mountain to an old deserted mine, just
for something to do. I came in sight of the mind.
About three o'clock in the afternoon after an easy c
I had just come out of a patch of low
brush into a clearing when I saw what I thought
was a grizzly bear in the bush on the other side.
I shot a grizzly near that spot the year before.
This one was about seventy five yards away, but I
didn't want to shoot it for I had no way
of getting it out, So I sat down on a
small rock and watched my rifle in my hands.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, even right there, Initially your mind tries
to put what you see into categories. And since he
had already had experience with grizzly bears at that location,
it makes total sense that the first thought was, yeah,
that's a grizzly bear, because they come here, I've already
shot one in this area. But it also begs the
question on the other side, and I know that we've
spoken about this before. It's like, how many times has
a sasquatch been initially identified as a bear but vice
versa too? How many the mistake goes the other direction?
Like how many times has a bear been misidentified as
a sasquatch? Now, if you're a skeptic, you have to
argue that all of them pretty much are or most
of them right, but certainly goes the other direction. I
think that that's why this is one of my favorite
classic sightings by far, because it has so many interesting
details built into it that are still super relevant today.
The guy was looking at a sasquatch and he thought
it was a bear. That certainly must happen quite often.
Speaker 1: I wish I knew more about the setting other than
the fact that it's just coming out of low brush
into a clearing. I wonder if it fits that description
of some of these other places where there's a slope
on one or both sides, or a creek or a stream,
you know, some sort of like waterway in or at
the edge of the clearing. But it is interesting that it's,
you know, basically in or at the edge of this
small clearing. And you know, if you look at this
on Google Maps, you can see Mike Mountain and try
to pick out a clearing, and there's a lot of them,
so and I'm sure there's probably a lot of old
minds up there too, So I wish you knew exactly
where on Mike Mountain it was wouldn't that be nice,
So he continues, I could see part of the animal's
head and the top of one shoulder. A moment later,
it raised up and stepped out into the opening. Then
I saw that it was not a bear. This, to
the best of my recollection, is what the creature looked
like and how it acted as it came across the
clearing directly toward me. My first impression was of a
huge man about six feet tall, almost three feet wide,
and probably weighing somewhere near three hundred pounds. It was
covered from head to foot with dark brown, silver tipped hair.
But as it came closer, I saw by its breasts
that it was female.
Speaker 2: Well so, the way it acts or the way it looked,
I think even the first impression, Okay, a huge man
six feet tall, three feet wide. I hear that very often,
whether it's big male sasquatches eight feet tall, four feet wide,
you know, or like you know, females they're almost half
as wide as they are tall. Yeah, I think that's
very very interesting. But also I'd like to point out
that three hundred pounds would be vastly underestimating that weight
for a huge man three feet wide. Six feet tall,
that would be at least probably four or five hundred pounds.
Speaker 1: Oh, I would think so. I mean, we know folks
who are six feet tall or thereabout three hundred plus mounds.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. But even like a stack to
like a big barrel, you know these things, weight goes up,
like as we all know, exponentially, whereas height goes up linearly.
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting too, the description of the hair,
because I always wonder how hair might correlate to age
in terms of being this dark brown with silver tips.
You know, is that the beginning of gray or something
like that, or maybe that's just a function of the sunlight,
or maybe that's just the hair of a young adult.
Who knows, But I do find that interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, there's differs between like old white hair and
then silver like a silver sheene. There's a lot of young,
healthy animals. How about silvery machine on their like lighter tip,
silvery tip like or not like like silver tip like
in low light button like if there's a sun that
really will shine like that like that silver.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, if it was
dawn or dusk or something, it might have looked almost
jet black. If it was dark brown, you know, without
being illuminated, it could have looked black to the eye
in a very very dark who.
Speaker 2: Nose, Matt. You have some ideas about silver tips and
hair colors among sasquatches, don't you.
Speaker 1: But it's really interesting when you're looking at reports of
smaller individuals up to larger individuals, not just in height
but in mass, there does seem to be a trend
of like ink black, you know, very very dark black,
to darker brown, to lighter brown, to red like cinnamon red,
to blonde, then to that coyote sort of gray, and
then occasionally like we've talked about, but sometimes there's white
ones people talking about almost like paper white in a
way like polar bear white.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, definitely, I mean coyote colored like maybe like
kind of darker brown here than like almost black, then
like a tan light brown patches. You hear that sometimes,
but not nearly as much as like with like cans is.
Speaker 1: It's just really interesting that there is that correlation between size, height, mass,
and color that generally smaller and shorter, the darker, the
taller and wider, more massive, the lightering color. So I
do think there's probably some connection with age.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I think I think there's I think there's yeah,
I mean there's definitely that.
Speaker 3: Like you don't hear about young like white ones too often.
Like it's it's rare, really rare.
Speaker 5: I heard one here the big Klimath up to the
mouth of the Klamath, the clout.
Speaker 4: The river in northern California. They were seeing around the
dump up there, seeing a family three of male adult male,
adult female on a They don't they didn't know if
it was a boiler girl, but a young a young one,
like you know, like a four to four and a half,
five and a half, like over the course of a
couple of years, it was, you know, like everyone's around
five foot give or take. They went they were seeing
since they apparently traveled east after a couple of years
being here on the coast, and they went crossover to
the Sierra Devadas, went all the way down to southern California,
cross over with the grape mine like Ventura Mountains, and
then went back up north, went all the way up
to Santa Cruz, past Santa Cruz up to Monterey.
Speaker 3: Because about three.
Speaker 4: Or four years after they left here, bart got two
reports of people seeing three white ones together like a
little family group down there, so they would have had
to and like there was reports in the current county
of them. There's a couple of reports of them around
that way and then up east Abount Shasta.
Speaker 1: No, that's really interesting starting to find there's a couple
of passages in Sanderson's book where he talks about that
change in coloration with size, which I had sort of
forgotten that he had referenced that. So when I was
writing The Phenomenal Sasquaestion, I was finding a lot of
that stuff again. I was like, Oh, I wonder if
anyone's ever pointed this out, and seemed like it was new.
But then I reread some of the Sanderson and I
was like, oh, he picked up on that trend back
in the late fifties and early sixties.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's definitely a factor of age
and size, but I don't think it means like necessarily
that they're like they could be like like like that
silver like the silver ones could be like not old,
like the toy in their prime.
Speaker 2: Well, I started getting my first gray hairs in my twenties,
and I certainly wasn't mature then stay tuned for more
Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right
back after these messages.
Speaker 1: So Rode goes on with his description to say, quote,
and yet its torso was not curved like a female's.
Its broad frame was straight from shoulder to hip. Its
arms were much thicker than a man's arms and longer,
reaching almost.
Speaker 3: To its knees.
Speaker 1: Its feet were broader proportionately than a man's, about five
inches wide at the front and tapering to a much
thinner heel. When it walked, it placed the heel of
its foot down first, and I could see the gray
brown skin or hide on the soles of its feet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack in that paragraph. Man,
there's a lot in there. So okay, So the torso
was not curved like a female's, well he should have
said female humans. Now, of course, the reason female humans
have curved torsos is a broad hip and narrower waist,
and the hips are wide to accommodate a large head
size at birth, you know, because humans have the largest
head size at birth of all the primate species. Basically,
it's because we have a greater intelligence. So as the
mister row here is pointing out the frame was, you know,
straight from the shoulder to the hip. And what that
indicates is that sasquatches probably don't have a big head
at birth. They probably have a much smaller head at
birth like the other ape species, and therefore they probably
have a similar intelligence level as the other ape species,
which I think is a fascinating insight of how anatomy
reflects other aspects of the creatures. You know, I'm not
sure if that's behavior or not, but you know, in
this case is intelligence level. And then as mister Rowe
keeps going on here, the talks about he got a
glimpse at the feet, and there's a couple of things
going on with the feet here. First of all, its
feet were broader proportionally in the demands about five mench
is wide at the front, tapering to much thinner heels.
Whether he's correct on that five inches or whatever, it
almost doesn't matter. But what he's observing here is what
I commonly refer to as a fan shape foot. There
are many, many examples in the data set about how
of these fanned shaped footprints where they are much wider
in the front than at the heel. Now I wouldn't
say their heels are thin by any stretch of the imagination.
But the fact that the toes and the front part
of the foot, the toes in particular, spread out so
widely because of the flexibility in their feet, would give
them a very, very wide appearance, I think. And also
he says it walked with his places heel down first,
and he could see gray brown skin under the soles
of the feet.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe it's entirely possible that they do walk like this.
What I have observed base, or what I interpret from footprints,
is that I think they they often come down heel first,
but they just as often come down flat footed at
the same time. Now, either one of those things could
be true. Here he did say that it places heel
down first, and he could see the gray brown skin
of the soles of the feet. Well, that would be
because of the flexibility of the bottom part of the foot. Yeah,
it seems that the Sasquatches might lift the front part
of their foot quite high and then place them down
at times. If that mid foot flexibility is in the
indication of their feet in general, like how they place
their foot, so that would give William Rowe a very
good look at the bottom of the foot, I imagine.
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, I wonder if that was toe's dorsy flexing,
that would give the impression that the heels hitting the
ground first, even if the majority of the foot is
touching the ground simultaneously with just the toes dorsy flexing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could go either way. It could go either way. Right,
So did the heel come down first? And again, there
are plenty of sasquatch prints with the heel more deeply
into the ground than say the mid part of the
foot or something like that, and that would indicate a
heel comes down first. But at the same time, if
it came down a little bit more flat footed, but
the toes pointed up, a dorsey flex, as you correctly
pointed out, is the term for that. Dors I mean
the dorsey I guess is it would be Latin for
indicating on the upward part of the body, like a
dorsal fin Right, the same root word then flex to
courses flexed. You know what that means. But just the
DORSIFLEXI I guess the toes pointing up, the front part
of the foot pointing up would strongly give the impression
of the heel coming down first. This it's a very
interesting and subtle observation here that would later in a way,
it predicts future finds about Sasquatch anatomy, which is always
a very very compelling aspect to anything. Oftentimes, the best
theories are the ones that predict later discoveries, and this
observation certainly does that.
Speaker 1: He goes on the state that quote. It came to
the edge of the bush I was hiding in, within
twenty feet of me, and squatted down on its haunches.
Reaching out its hands, it pulled the branches of bushes
toward it and stripped the leaves with its teeth. Its
lips curled flexibly around the leaves.
Speaker 3: As it ate.
Speaker 1: I was close enough to see that its teeth were
white and even. And I actually do have another quote here,
although I'm trying to see this is either from the
letter that he wrote to the province or from the
radio interview, but he had said, quote the fur around
her mouth was all green from the leaves and vegetations
she had eaten. So that's from one of those other
two statements. It's not an affidavit, but it's an interesting
additional observation that's not in the affidavit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is interesting. Actually, that would.
Speaker 4: Give some kind of indication too, about like their vocalizations,
like the flexibility of the lips like that.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a very ape like characteristic, that's for sure.
I mean you can just look online for orangutans eating
leaves and whatever else, and they used their lips very prehensibly,
I guess that's the right word. Yeah, and grab sort
of things like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then of course the teeth being white, and even
that's another interesting aspect as well, because again, the vast
majority of observations of the teeth indicate that they don't
have prominent canines. And I've spoken to a few witnesses
who were terrified at the time, and they said that
they had projecting canines, but that just might be a
fear thing I have several I've spoke to one witness
who saw one run its tongue along the row of
teeth like as it watched them, Like its tongue came
out and ran along the row of teeth, which gave
me the opportunity. So no canines, goes, No, no, no
canines at all. They're just flat like a human's now.
Of course, doctor Bindernagel has suggested that perhaps larger canines
are a sexually dimorphic trait, and only the largest of
the males would have such things, so that's a possibility
as well, And William Rowe does specifically say that this
was a female.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've talked to a couple of witnesses that have
seen them doing the same thing, striping. I grow up
in Hoopa the I've talked about few names. I've seen
him doing that with blackberries, just taking like with the
thorns and everything, just putting the viole in their mouth
like and then pulling it, just running it. So it's
just their teeth are stripping everything off leaves, berries, thorns, everything,
just and chewing them up.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, you know, some people like the texture of food,
you know, or some people don't like the texture of food,
like lema beans or something. Maybe they dislike that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But he goes on to describe the shape of
the head, saying the head was higher at the back
than at the front, the nose was broad and flat,
the lips and chin protruded farther than its nose, but
the hair that covered it, leaving bear only the parts
of the face around the mouth, nose, and ears made
it resemble an animal as much as a human. None
of this hair, even on the back of its head,
was longer than an inch, and that on its face
was much shorter. Its ears were shaped like a human's ears,
but its eyes were small and black like a bear's,
and its neck was also unhuman, thicker and shorter than
any man's I had ever seen. That's like a classic description. Yeah,
very much so, very much so. And again, if these
things are real animals, as we all suggest they are,
it makes perfect sense that all the reports afterwards basically
mirror this description. Skeptics would say that all of them
are based on this one particular encounter, but I think
that's pretty far reaching there.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: I definitely think that as well. I mean, there are
previous observations that describe similar things that I don't think
William Row would have had access to because most of
them would have been published in you know, small print
media publications.
Speaker 3: It would not have been.
Speaker 1: They would have predated a ap wire, so they wouldn't
have been spread around the country or reprinted you know,
internationally up in Canada or these other places.
Speaker 2: I love that the head was higher at the back
than at the front, because that's one of those observations
about how above the brow ridge of the sasquatch's face
the head retreats pretty sharply back, suggesting that they don't
have a well developed frontal lobe on their brain, you know,
like the again much again ape like they have an
ape like brain. There's actually physical evidence Martley's observational evidence,
and then a couple of pictures that suggests that they
don't have a human like intelligence based on the shape
of their head, because the shape of the head indicates
the shape of the brain. And of course also in
this description is a slight prognathism where the mouth comes
out a little bit further than the nose area, so
a slight prognathism, which would of course back up this
idea that they are built for chewing. Everything about their skull.
Their skull is built for chewing. I mean, whether the
slight prognathism, which is, you know, the muzzle coming out,
or the zygomatic arches or the sagital crest, all that
stuff indicates that they are a chewing machine, which gives
some suggestions on their diet, not just leaves in this case,
but actually probably some pretty thick fibrous stuff like very bark,
for example, or maybe chewing open bones to try to
get the marrow inside, that kind of stuff. Very very
interesting observation here, that again is backed up by countless
of observations and a few photographs. And how would William
row know that?
Speaker 1: I'm looking at older reports. I mean, there's the famous
one from I think it was from the Antioch Ledger
or a Stemba Creek area the Diablo Mountains, the Diablo
Range that described again a sort of a smaller individual,
but in brief said it was quote a full five
feet high, with disproportionately broadened square at the shoulders, with
arms of great length. The head was small compared to
the rest of the creature and appeared to be set
upon shoulders without a neck, etc. So yeah, that description
is certainly not original to William Rowe, But like I said,
I don't think he would have had access to a
lot of these earlier descriptions and earlier reports.
Speaker 2: No, he seems like too practical a guy to be
reading that book stuff.
Speaker 1: And the idea of the you know, the head being
higher at the back than the front, you know, indicating
a saginal crest. I mean, here's a report from the
Globe Valley, which is sort of south of Blowing Rock,
North Carolina, western North Carolina, that was published in eighteen
seventy eight, I believe, originally in the Statesfield, North Carolina.
Landmark was the name of the publication, but the article
says quote our correspondent describes the wild man as being
about six feet five inches tall, with broad shoulders and
long apish arms, smooth faiths, and funnel shaped head.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Funnel shit right, an upside down funnel. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I think it means to some degree like that
going to a crest or a point at the top
or rear. So yeah, upside down funnel in a way.
Speaker 2: Speaking of its head, here's an area that there doesn't
seem to be consensus on is the length of the hair,
because I think all of us have spoken to witnesses
that indicate that the hair may sometimes have longer the
head may have longer hair on it than other parts
of the body. But in this case, it doesn't like
it's an inch or you said, no longer than an inch,
even on the back of the head. Well, that's an
interesting contrast to other reports but again there's no consensus.
I would say it's a mixture of both of these things. Like,
do either of you think that there is a trend
through most animals you think have longer hair on the
head or shorter hair or is it just a complete
random who knows.
Speaker 1: I think it has to be individual variation, because I've seen,
you know, big adult black bears. You know, if I
think of one place, area X, I've seen adult black
bears down there that had very short, very clean hair,
and then adult black bears the same week in the
same area, you know, just a different individual with like longer,
sort of shaggier, scragglier hair. That these are both versus
americanas they're both adults. I got a bunch of pictures
of bears that week. In fact, I'll.
Speaker 3: Post them all on.
Speaker 1: Our Patreon for the pigeons to see. Because with the
land that was being leased there, the landowner put bear
barrels out there for the upcoming bear hunting season, which
would have been after our field season ended, but went
ahead and started putting bait out there. So all of
a sudden, you know, we were surrounded by bears on
a daily basis. We saw ten different bears ten different
individuals in that one week, and some of them had
larger ears with much shaggier ear hair. So be interesting.
Like you'd see like a jet black bear, big individual,
short hair, and you'd see another large adult more like
blackish red, somewhat shaggy, but the ear hair would be
quite long, and then other ones that were just like
completely shaggy and sort of fuzzy looking roughly the same size.
So if you looked at just that one species and
all that variation, then you know, I wouldn't have a
problem with one witness saying, yeah, the sasquatch like all
over it was an inch to two inches long, and
other people saying like, no, it was longer in places
and sort of fuzzier looking or quote unquote shaggier in
certain areas than others. I think you'd see that same
variation across individuals of a given species without any issue.
Speaker 2: Agreed, Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff
and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. I'm
struck by his description of the eyes. They were small
and black like a bear's. You would think that the
eyes well, I mean, I do hear that the eyes
seem small or proportionally correct for a human or something
like that. But whenever I've heard proportionally correct for a human,
I've always considered, well, their heads are larger, so they
must have fairly large eyes as well, and when you'd
take into consideration they're semi nocturnal tendencies. Yeah, I think
I would think that they had larger eyes. But I'm
wondering here if the eyes were small and black like
a bear's, if they just seemed that way because of
the oversized iris, you know, perhaps ticking up the visible
surface area of the eye.
Speaker 3: Maybe.
Speaker 2: So I don't know, but they have bears are nocturnal,
and they do have kind of smallish eyes, so maybe
it just makes perfect sense, and we're back to genetic
diversity again.
Speaker 1: He goes on to say, quote, as I watched this creature,
I wondered if some movie company was making a film
at this place, and that what I saw was an
actor made up to look partly human and partly animal.
But as I observed it more, I decided it would
be impossible to fake such a specimen.
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Speaker 1: I learned later there was no such company near that area,
nor in fact, did anyone live up Micah Mountain according
to the people who lived in TJC.
Speaker 2: TJC.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll just figure out how to say it correctly
and record it once and just insert it there. You
remember those old commercials where it would be like so
and so, we can't wait to come to your town
in Bloomington. You know, they have like the overdubbed town names,
so they all have to shoot one commercial and just
overdub the the town.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'll do that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we still have to do that for finding Bigfoot.
All the time we would go in and you know,
we're out in the field somewhere, so so we got
to do I forget what they called them ADRs or
something like that. I can't remember what the acronym stands for.
We'd go sit in the car like and simulate a
sound booth, and we'd get a recording like, you know,
my audio recording, my field audio recorder, and say things
like over here, bobo, over here, bobo, over here, bobo
at like five or six times, and they choose the
one that they like best and they pipe it into
the episode.
Speaker 3: I had to do those.
Speaker 2: I had to do one of those this week actually
because of documentary crew that I was filming with a
couple months ago. They realized that something I said, something
they asked me to say, by the way, wasn't me.
But I make my own share of mistakes. But in
this case, the production company made a mistake about what
something in Latin meant, so I had to go rerecord
it to correct it.
Speaker 1: So Roe continues. Finally, the wild thing must have gotten
my scent, for it looked directly at me through an
open in the brush. A look of amazement crossed its face.
It looked so comical at the moment I had to
grin still in a craft's position. It backed up three
or four short steps, then straightened up to its full
height and started to walk rapidly back the way it
had come. For a moment, it washed me over his
shoulder as it went, not exactly afraid, but as though
it wanted no contact with anything strange.
Speaker 3: You hear that, You hear that a lot? I mean
that's I mean you hear.
Speaker 5: I mean you see it on other primates and and
mammals like I mean, you see it on your dogs
and cast stuff.
Speaker 4: But they that look of shock and surprise. I mean,
I can just see it on the sasquatches. You see
it on like when you watch chimp and gorilla Rangontown videos.
It's like, you see those face expresses look so human.
I can just I can just imagine seeing that, you know,
what he saw it like, because a lot of people
have described that.
Speaker 2: I have to wonder if it's sent though, you know,
because apes in general aren't, you know, scent oriented critters.
We're more visually oriented. And of course this sort of
thing where you know, a sasquatch notices a human some
times that happens at great distances and not just you know,
ten feet or however far away. Mister Row was from
this animal. I know one witness who saw one on
he was on his property, but he saw one on
his neighbor's property. And they have like long, skinny properties,
you know. And so this animal that my friend observed
was two hundred yards away, one hundred fifty yards away,
probably probably closer to one hundred fifty yards away, and
it saw him because he shifted his weight and the
gravel under his feet on the gravel driveway did a
little crunch, just a slight crunch, and from that distance,
the thing turned its head and looked immediately at my
buddy before running off. But I think that was an
audio queue, not an olfactory queue.
Speaker 4: And sometimes it seems like I mean, audio for sure
is part of it, but it's just something like when
they DisCrit like I was just frozen, like and it
was you know, one hundred whatever, three hundred yards out
and they're sitting in a in a blind and hunting,
you know, and the thing just snaps its head back
on its directly out of like without scanning, just locks
in instantly, Like I've heard that so many times I
can't even count.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder, since he was so close to it,
if it just saw him, because apes, like, you know,
we are apes, All apes have color vision. We have
the best vision in the mammalian world. And you know,
he wasn't hunting. He was there looking for old minds.
And he had said, like, you know, I shot a
grizzly there before, but I wasn't there to hunt grizzlies
that day and wasn't prepared to take one out even
if I encountered one, So I wasn't going to shoot one.
So he probably wasn't wearing you know, camouflage or trying
to dress like a hunter or be undetectable so it
might have just seen him at that distance, even though
he was brushed up.
Speaker 2: As we say, yeah, any hunter is going to immediately
go towards the smell thing. You can look and I
bet all of our emails, but I know on finding Bigfoot,
one of the big critiques we got constantly from hunters
is that we weren't descenting in sitting still and wearing
camo and all this sort of stuff. But decenting is
always one of the first things people say because they're
hunting deer, and deer, of course have amazing sense of smell,
or even bear bear have amazing senses of smell, but
not primates. I mean, they probably have a better sense
than humans do because we have domesticated ourselves. But if
we were living out in the wild and depending upon
our senses for survival more than we are now, I
don't think we would have ever lost and kind of
dulled our sense of smell, and we'd have a wild
sense of smell like these animals and will certainly do.
Speaker 1: Oh I agree, I still do the like I use
the descenting detergents and things like that on my field clothes.
I don't use regular like scented laundry detergents and things
of that nature, and then some of the descenting sprays.
Not because I think they have a sense of smell
like a deer or a bear, but it's just like
I think, if you treat them as if they do,
it's just helpful, you know, if you act as if
they might be able to Like, every precaution isbably be
helpful if you're intending to avoid detection. Like if it's
if I'm just hiking and looking for sign and hoping
to have a spontaneous encounter, I'm not too worried about
it because I'm visually detectable. But if the day's goal
is like, hey, we're going to wear ur tones are camouflage,
and we're going to hide and build a little blind
or be hidden and just wait with cameras for a
long time, almost like you're hunting, well, then yeah, I
think it is important to at least give that a shot,
and also to avoid being detected by other animals, because
who knows, If all the other animals avoid that place
because they smell human smells, then maybe sasquatches are savvy
enough to pick up on the fact that other animals
are avoiding that area too. I mean, I think scent
attractants seem to work. There's plenty of cases that sort
of suggest that, So why wouldn't it work in the
opposite way that Like, well, if you could attract a
sasquatch with an enticing scent, why couldn't you repel one
with a threatening scent?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And I've been in the field with people who didn't
take the scent thing seriously. So they'd have the gilly
suit or the leafy flage, but they'd get up and
camp in the morning and shave and put on like
aqua velva and then hide. And it's like, well, hey,
you know, it might not see you, but it's going
to smell you, man, because I can smell you from
over here. Maybe that'll work to your advantage. Maybe it'll
come investigate that strange smell and not see you. But still, like,
I think it's got to be one or the other.
You know, aquavelva works.
Speaker 2: That's what a Chris Minier was using when he brought
that sasquatch in and saw it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, with the soaking bandanas or something, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he soaked a bandana full of aqua velva and
then hung it and let the wind waft. It's it's
lovely scent, and it brought one in. It brought one in.
It worked. I mean, it could just be a coincidence,
but maybe it isn't. People swear by the bacon thing.
But I mean, I've cooked an eight a pound of
bacon alone in the woods before. All it did for
me is, you know, it changed my blood pressure.
Speaker 1: So Rod goes on to say, the thought came to
me that if I shot it, I would possibly have
a specimen of great interest to scientists the world over.
I had heard stories of the Sasquatch, the giant hairy
indians that live in the legends of British Columbia Indians,
and also many claim are still in fact alive today.
Maybe this was a Sasquatch, I told myself. I leveled
my rifle. The creature was still walking rapidly away, again
turning its head to look in my direction. I lowered
the rifle. Although I've called the creature it, I felt
now that it was a human being, and I knew
I would never forgive myself if I killed it. And
that's an interesting point, you know. He says that in
that moment. But there's an interesting letter that he wrote
to John Green in the aftermath. I guess as they're
still communicating about sasquatch research in the pursuit, he had
written to Green that sasquatch investigators quote have got to
get away from the idea of comparing it it, you know,
a sasquatch to a human being as we know them,
which is really interesting.
Speaker 2: Who said that, William Rowe or John Green.
Speaker 1: William Rowe said that in a letter to John Green
that the Sasquatch investigators had to like abandon that idea
that they quote have to get away from the idea
of comparing the sasquatch to a human being as we
know them.
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent agreed. Did he go on to
give reasons for that?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 1: I pulled that quote from one of Green's writings. I'd
love to see if that whole letter exists and its
entirety somewhere. But I just thought that was interesting because
in the affidavit he says like, I felt now that
it was a human being, and I knew I would
never forgive myself and if I killed it. So maybe
he's just describing the sort of emotions of the phenomenological
experience of being in that moment of like, I can't
bring myself to shoot this thing because it's more human
like than an animal, and then in subsequent time saying like, hey,
these are not people as we know them, as we
know people to be, et cetera. But who knows. But
I always think, if this story was true, had he
pulled that trigger, we have all grown up in a
very different world. Not saying that I'm advocating for that,
but it would have been a dundeed by the time
we were all born if he had, if he had
followed through with that at that time, yeah, yeah, he might've.
Speaker 3: He might have got taken out. And still an end
of mission is a mission to be what up? And
William ruh oh yeah that's.
Speaker 1: A good point.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, end up in one of the historic Polites
books or something like that.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I did say that I agree with
sasquatches being taken out of the human camp, but I
want to point out to listeners who maybe are new
or maybe don't know me as well as maybe you could.
I guess that does not mean that I would have
any less respect for a sasquatch or any other ape species.
I am personally an advocate of the forward thinking governments
of like Portugal and Spain, and I think there's one
in Central or South America now that are advocating giving
apes and also cetaceans, whales and dolphins and stuff limited
human rights, not that they say that they're human, but
the similar rights as a human might. And a lot
of that is like self determinism and that kind of thing.
I just caught in the news this past week that
several countries, and I think Mexico is one of them,
I remember, and I think there's another one again, I
can't remember which one it is, but you can look
it up yourself. They're stopping like whale and dolphin shows,
particularly the whale shows, you know, which are generally bad
idea to torturey an animal like that and by living it,
making it live in an equivalent of a five foot page. Yeah. So,
just because I don't think sasquatches are human or should
be treated as such, does not mean that I think
they should be on a significantly lower lower tier of respect.
I think that we should be giving these animals ape
species in particular, and also the great whale, like the
whales like orcas and stuff very similar rights as human beings,
which would include like self determinism or if they are
kept in any sort of enclosure, like obviously the best
health in the world and all that healthcare in the
world and all that sort of stuff. I'm not one
of these people that just because it's not human means
we don't have to respect it. I was told by
a researcher that if I talk about sasquatches like they
are people, then people will respect them like such. But
I think that's just ass backwards, man. I think that
people to learn to respect animals more. Oh, I agree.
Speaker 1: And if we think that designating things as people will
immediately demand respect from people, I don't think you've ever
seen how people treat people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you should get a Facebook account for a second,
go check it out. Yeah, stay tuned for more Bigfoot
and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back
after these messages.
Speaker 1: So the sighting concludes, He says, just as it came
to the other patch of brush, it threw its head
back and made a peculiar noise that seemed to be
half laugh and half language, which I can only describe
as a kind of winny. Then it walked from the
small brush into a stand of lodgepole pine. I stepped
out into the opening and looked across a small ridge
just beyond the pine to see if I could see
it again. It came out on a ridge a couple
of hundred yards away from me, tipped its head back
again and again emitted the only sound I had heard
it make. But what this half laugh, half language was
meant to convey, I do not know. It disappeared then
and I never saw it again. So I'm trying to
picture that sound. You know what that could be? That
half laugh, half language like a word slash laugh winnie.
I don't think of other recordings or descriptions that come
to mind that.
Speaker 3: Approximately, I will say, like a hyena.
Speaker 1: See, I've never heard a witness like compared to that.
But there must just be some other descriptor that people
have used.
Speaker 3: I've heard I've heard hyaena dozens of times, like kind
of light.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got no comment on that one. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: I will say this that one of the things that
I picked up from that Sandy Ridge trailhead sighting is
that the animal up there, the animal was observed it
ran off. The guys lost sight of it and they
they left the area. But upon further investigation following the
tracks set it left behind, we found that it actually
only ran about one hundred yards and then sat down
and waited for the guys to go away. They thought
it just left the area completely and they didn't know
what direction it went, but further investigation indicated that the
animal of the sasquatch actually just sat down amongst the
ferns and waited for the guys to go away. And
that's not the only case of a sasquatch is running
a little distance and then a hunkering down waiting for
the people to go away. But in this case it
kept walking for hundreds of yards. It looks like that
is an interesting behavior because in my presentation on the
Sandy Ridge trailhead siding event, I was commenting to like,
if you think you're a bigfoot researcher and you see
one of these things, what we can learn from this
is to go after it with a camera running because
if you can get a picture of a sasquatch standing
up from its seemingly hidden position and running off again,
that would be cool. Who wouldn't want that. But in
this case, it just kept going and going and going.
So again we have a I'll say it's a discrepancy
and behavior, but that doesn't mean one's true and one's not.
It just means one did one thing and one did
another thing. But I still think it would be a
valuable strategy to follow a sasquatch the direction it went,
just in case. Just in case, because when Bob Tipmans
visited the PG film site, he apparently found that the
thing went off into the brush and sat down and
watched Roger and Bob doing whatever they're doing at the site.
So I don't know, I don't know if that whole
situation is real. Then we have two examples of these
things hanging out waiting for the people to go away.
But then William Rose case, it sought several hundred yards
away and kept going.
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is I was looking through Sanderson's
book here to not to do a callback to an
earlier point, but I was looking for this reference earlier
where he was describing the coloration and age correlation, and
he was talking about some of those early sightings leading
up to William Rowe and these color differentiations as they
relate to size, and he said quote, some gorillas develop
a distinct gingery tinge the black of mammalian hair being
only melanin and really a very dark red. Almost all
of them go silvery gray with age. Some gibbons vary
in a most bewildering way. In coat colors. They may
be black, gray, chocolate, white, or beige to start with,
and throughout life they may change from one color to another.
Different races of different species do all manner of different
things in this aspect. It is therefore quite consistent that
these absms, these abottable snowmen, should start off with jet
black hair and light skin and end up whary, old
black faced creatures with silver tipped, reddish fur h class
and then the final bit of rose account, he says quote,
I wanted to find out if it lived on vegetation entirely,
or eight meat as well, So I went down and
looked for signs. I found it in five different places,
and although I examined it thoroughly, could find no hair
or shells of bugs or insects, so I believe it
was strictly a vegetarian. I found one place where it
had slept for a couple of knights under a tree. Now,
the knights were cool up the mountain at this time
of year especially, and yet it had not used a fire.
I found no sign that it possessed even the simple
list of tools, nor a single companion while in this place.
Whether this was a Sasquatch, I do not know. It
will always remain a mystery to me unless another one
is found.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what I love about that, this this
little section he just read is, of course it exemplifies
the scientific process. You know, he just had a face
to face, he had incoming data like, oh my god,
what is this? And he has then immediately obviously, I
think for most anybody you would have some questions about
what you just saw. And the first question that he
wanted to find out was I wanted to if it
was a vegetarian or not. So he asked a question,
And what did he do. He set up an experiment.
I'm going to go look to see if I can
find signs of things at eight And apparently he found
those things in five different locations. And he says he
couldn't find hair, or bugs or insects, or shells of
bugs or insects or so so he thought it was
strictly vegetarian. That was his hypothesis. Now further data coming in.
If he saw it eating meat, I would change it
to be an omnivore, of course, because he did see
it eat plants. And if he you saw it ate
meat or found evidence of that, dude have to come
to the conclusion as an omnivore, which we believe is
the case today. But I would like to point out
that if it was eating bugs or anything like that,
I don't think it would peel them and suck out
the gooey middle part. I think it would probably eat
the carapas as well. The exoskeleton. Yeah, that's probably very
very rich in calciums, I would guess. I don't know that,
but I would guess that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then the hair. I mean I find scat mountain
lion scat all the time with hair in it. So
I'm not sure that you would find any evidence of
that really either if it was eaten you know, rats
and stuff like I think they do.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I have a big impact on the sasquash research community
for a long time because people put so much stock
into William Rose citing that a lot of people assume
dos vegetarian for a long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because all the other ape species are thought to
be largely vegetarian. Of course, we know that bugs are
eaten by rang and tans and chimpanzees you know, actually
hunt flesh and whatever else. We know that now, but
we didn't then we didn't. Then they were just thought
to be purely vegetarian. So why wouldn't another ape species
in north like even it's a different continent have the
same habits. But then that just shows you, I think,
more than anything, of the inflexibility of human behavior or
human thought and not animal behavior. Yeah, I think it's
interesting that he found where it slept a couple of
nights under a tree. I wish we had more information about.
Speaker 5: That, Yeah, like what did you do anything to prepare
the ground it or was it just you know, smash
down grass, like build any kind of nests or put
any kind of pine doughs down or what what have you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have to take his word that it was
even it, you know, because bears, how would you differentiate
a bear nightly bed from a sasquatches? You know, I
mean we have to take his word that maybe tracks
were there or something. But we just don't know. We
just don't know. We don't have any information on it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll never know.
Speaker 2: This is definitely one of my favorite early sighting reports.
You know, I consider this one one of the classics.
I don't know if it's labeled as a or not anywhere,
but I think it's one of the classics because there's
so much in it. There's so much to unpack from it,
subtle observations that actually literally predicted future finds, which I
think is very strong evidence of it being real. It
is before the Big Sasquatch Hoople of stuff from nineteen
fifty eight, where the word bigfoot was kind of born,
although there was some usage of it before that, but
it really became a prominent in American culture at least
in fifty eight. I know this is up in Canada,
so the Sasquatch stories had been circling for a few
decades at this point, but again it largely people thought
that they were just native people. You know that the
way that they were written about at the time by J. W.
Burns and those sort of folks indicated that they were
probably just like a wild native person or a tribe
of them up in the Mountains. So to me, this
is one of the most telling and interesting and important
earlier observations from that early time of sasquatch research that
I find so interesting and historically significant.
Speaker 1: It is definitely a classic made a huge impact on
a lot of people. I think it was Sanderson's reporting
of that case in one of the men's magazines of
the day that first inspired Roger Patterson to get involved
and then obviously led to a lot of the speculation
that Patterson modeled the Patterson Gillin film as an attempt
to replicate what William Rowe described, so there's no shortage
of controversy there, but either way, it definitely inspired the
early investigators that day, especially Patterson. Yeah, another case that
was brought to light around that same time that a
lot of people have asked questions about over the years.
I know we've touched on before, but I think it
would be fun to do a deep dive on is
the infamous Albert Ausman case, at least the observational portions
of it, the things he said. I was digging up
some older quotes and things I'd sort of forgotten about it,
some deep dives that Sanderson had done when he was
with him the claims of Darris Swindler after having interviewed him, etc.
So maybe that would be fun for pigeons. There was
a pigeon question about that recently too, so it'll be
good for those folks, all right.
Speaker 2: Oh and of course, I you know, earlier in the
this very episode, we were talking about some of the
big footing adventures I've had with handprints and footprints and
all that sort of stuff. I did text both of
you pictures of that, so Matt, feel free to go
and post those for the pigeons if you're interested. Maybe
they'd be interested in seeing those things. And we do
have a membership if anybody wants to join. It's five
bucks a month. And what you get besides pictures of
footprints and handprints in the ground and things that we
find are interesting in the variety of articles and stuff
that Matt Pruit is digging up, but where you also
get this episode completely ad free, and another entire hour
episode completely ad free. So maybe you want to be
a member. I don't know a lot of people seem
to be, so join us. All the cool people are yeah,
And one final thing before we sign off, by the way,
don't forget we do a Bigfoot and Beyond t shirts
out there. If you're interested in wearing one of those
and looking exceptionally cool and slender, you can get those
at sasquatchprints dot com.
Speaker 4: He's got some cool cool not just stars, he has
all kinds of cool Bigfoot designs on that the get
the Bigfoot and Beyond one for sure. But yeah, well,
all right, focus us another week. A big flip y'all
at Clifton Bubba and prough It chiming in this week too, bonus.
So thanks again for tuning in. Hit like hitch share,
give us a good review. We appreciate it, and yeah,
we're going to go to our Patreon group now and
do another deep dive until next week, y'all.
Speaker 3: Keep it squatchy.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
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