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Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

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Speaker 2: These guys are your favorites, so light Shay, subscribe and

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rade it five star s.

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Speaker 1: Me grates on us today and listening watching lim always

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keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and

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James Bubo Fay.

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Speaker 2: You are William Rolling.

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Speaker 3: Born in Cliff.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Bobo. How you doing today?

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Speaker 3: Pretty good? Pretty good? How are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Nothing's ruined my day yet, but it is like ten

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in the morning, so we'll see. Ready, get ready, it's coming.

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It's still early. I'm an optimist. No, but things are good.

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There's been a documentary film crew in town the last

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couple of weeks, two weeks straight, so I've been doing

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an extraordinary amount of time in the woods last couple

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of weeks. Really interesting things have been coming up as well.

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It's been great, really great film company. The two lead folks,

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the producers, are married couple. They're fantastic. They become I think,

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pretty good friends at this point with us, and I

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think we gave them some really good experiences that hopefully

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translate well to camera. If some of these things even

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make it to camera, some may not. We'll see. Who's

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we well, the wi is I guess the folks at

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the NABC, because we've been kind of helping them out's

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along the way. Like we took them out the other

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night to a spot that we have called the Willows

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for a night thing, you know, just to get a

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little bit of night stuff on camera. Nothing happened at all,

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but the Willows is great. There's been two or three

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sidings on this big chunk of private property that we

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have access to. Yeah, it's kind of a you know

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in the general area of bull Run Watershed, which you

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know you hear me talk about all the time. So

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that was pretty cool.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 2: I heard from a rumor from one of my employees

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that somebody from bull Run the water Department came into

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the museum and briefly popped in and said, all right,

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well got ahead to work. I work over at the

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water shedding. Oh really, So I think that a number

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was exchanged. So maybe we could hear something from one

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of those folks, which would be fantastic. There's been a

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lot of stuff going on as far as track finds lately.

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Also in the last three or four weeks, everybody hears

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me talking about Easter Island all the time. A recent

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find at Easter Island has been a very interesting hand print,

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actually three handprints in two different locations, and each one

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seems to represent a different individual, which is really interesting

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because you know, I think everybody, all the listeners know that.

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You know, I'm not interested in showing sasquatches are real.

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I already think they are. I'm trying to learn about

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what they do. There's social dynamics and all that kind

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of stuff. So the fact that we have three different

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sized handprints from two different locations, I think is pretty interesting.

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One of the locations had a medium size handprint and

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a smaller handprint. I didn't judge them to be cast

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at the time, but I'm kind of kicking myself for

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that right now. So I intend to go back out

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tomorrow and try to cast those. We'll see if I

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can do it or not. I mean, everybody hears me

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talking about having large blobs of unidentifiable plaster in my garage,

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and it's one hundred percent true.

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Speaker 3: We'll see.

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Speaker 2: I might come back with a few more blobs of

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plaster tomorrow. But the interesting thing about the Easter Island

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situation right now is that, Okay, so that one road

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gave me a medium and then a smaller handprint, probably

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about the size of my hand, maybe is a small one.

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But the other location, which is a little bit deeper

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than we tend to go in this one particular area,

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I got a really big handprint I guess, probably thirteen

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inches wide. And then, mind you, the all the fingers

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are split out very widely. There's traces of all five fingers,

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three of them impressed pretty well? Are four of them

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impressed pretty well? The middle finger, that digit didn't really

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come down in its full length, so you just have

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like the base or a next to the palm structure,

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I guess. But nearby, just like maybe fifty seventy yards away,

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we found a very large footprint, like a seventeen inch footprint. Now,

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I did not see any indication that it was a

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double strike, because a lot of double strikes happen out there,

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But I didn't see any indication of a double strike

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at all. It just seemed like and there was more

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than one footprint too. There were two identifiable footprints in

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the trackway, and they weren't consecutive. They were you know,

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like maybe I think was a right I missed the

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left and then the next right, I got to the

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rights in forest stuff. But yeah, a seventeen inch individual

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which I have never seen in that particular area, and

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which is probably responsible for that handprint that we got

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that I cast the other day, and also likely responsible

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for that handprint that we got. I think it was

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in twenty twenty three, we got a really interesting handprint

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that I initially thought was a footprint, it was so large.

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But when I cast it and got it back and

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started examining it, it's clearly a handprint of some sort.

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Speaker 3: What's these things you used their hands? Like?

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Speaker 4: What is it like steep train? Like, what's the context

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you're found as handprints?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's actually a variety of handprints. The one back

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in twenty twenty three was on an island in the

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middle of a creek, you know, like one of these

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just you know, it's not a big creek by any means,

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you know, fifteen feet across or something, and there's this

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a patch of land in the middle of it. And

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it was down on the ground, not even really on

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a slope, a slight slope and not you know, nothing

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I would really call like an up ill slope or anything.

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Then I initially saw that impression because of the finger marks.

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There were black holes in the ground. I mean, I

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thought those were toe marks. I thought those were too

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impressions at first, but so I put a plaster in it.

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But it turns out that those were fingers. But the

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most recent hand prints, the large one that was found

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nearby the seventeen inch track, was actually on the berm,

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on the side of a road of an abandoned logging road,

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Like I mentioned, that's what I'd like to walk, these

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abandoned logging roads. And it was about a mile or

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two back, a mile and a half pack or something

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like that. But it was on the berm above that,

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but not very far above that. It was maybe two

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feet above it, like on the berm. So the thing

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had to been like on the ground or you know,

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or kneeling down or you know, squatting down or sitting down.

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I don't know. I didn't find any sign of what

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it was doing except for a right handprint on the

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ground or you know, next to the ground. And then

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of course the other I'm actually thinking about it, I

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found another handprint too, not that one of the handprints

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was in a moss sort of wall about fifteen feet

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above the road about a mile away from where this

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other large one was, and I was the medium sized

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handprint near as I can tell, it was in the

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moss above the road, about fifteen feet up the hill,

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because I saw that something had disturbed the hillside on

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the berm, and so upon closer inspection we found what

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I think when I'm interpreting as a handprint. And then,

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of course, on the location where there were two handprints

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in close proximity to one another, about fifteen feet apart,

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they were about again on the berm, next to an

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abandoned logging road. The medium sized print was about four

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feet above the level of the road and the smaller

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print was about two or three feet above the level

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of the road. So yeah, mostly on berms, I find

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a lot of tracks on the berms on the side

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of logging roads, because most logging roads are so hard

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packed that they don't really take an impression at all,

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but that the diagonal sloping area next to logging roads

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is looser. It's not as hard packed, so if something

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goes up or down there, it's likely or more likely

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at least to leave some sort of discernible impression that

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you can make some sort of sense out of although

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I have found handprints just a flat on the ground too,

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in the middle of like muddy muddy road areas too,

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but not very well defined, but.

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Speaker 3: Breaking like a couple of there was probably drinking.

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Speaker 2: No, no, I don't actually no, I think that. And

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you know, when I was out with Shane in the

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Olympics in whatever February or whatever that was, we found

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the handprint at the same place basically about you know,

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four three to four or five feet off the ground

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on the side of a logging road on the berm.

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Basically there was no water necessarily associated with them, maybe

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in the Olympics or some water pooling up. I guess

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on the guttery.

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Speaker 3: The creek one you don't think it was.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, because it wasn't close enough to the

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water to be drinking, like it seems like. I don't know,

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of course, you know, I mean, it's all guesswork at

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this point, but I'm guessing at some sort of like

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maybe I'll call it hunting behavior, although it could just

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be avoidance behavior as well, or just like observing behavior

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where they dropped to the ground and then they watch

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whatever they're watching. The one I fid the big print

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from the other day. If it would have dropped to

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the ground and put its hand there, it would have

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been sitting literally on the side of the abandoned logging road.

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So it's not like it was hiding from a car

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or something like that. It was probably watching an animal

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or doing something out there. I don't know. And of

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course in this general area, it's very strategic. This area.

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I was walking on this road a couple of years

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ago and I was alone. Back there. I was walking

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down and I was overlooking the creek bed below me.

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You know, drops pretty steep down there, about fifty hundred

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feet down there's a creek, and I remember I made

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a noise like a whoop or something like that, just

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I don't know why. I usually don't make any noises

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like that, but in this one occasion I did. And

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while I was watching down there in the creek, I

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saw a mountain lion run up the slope on the

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other side after I made the noise. So there's something

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about this area that predators cleterally like. You know, whether

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it's the mountain lion that I observed with my own

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eyes or a sasquatch that I did not observe but

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you know, left some indications of this presence just this

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past week.

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Speaker 3: So right, that's cool.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is cool. It is cool. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It always makes you one of the like what were

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they doing? Like what was in their mind set? Well,

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why did they do that right here? Like why did

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they get down put their hand down there? You get

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more questions and answers as usual.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know every time I go out, I come

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back wondering more and more about these things. Oh and

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I was out with some friends, like actually this past

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week in addition to all this other stuff I've been doing,

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and went out to the Outer Rim this past week

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as well. And two of the people I was with

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saw a Sasquatch while I was standing thirty feet from them,

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and I mest no way, yeah, yeah, as I'm apt to,

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I was up ahead of them because it's a cross

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country trek, you know, when I was about thirty feet

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ahead and we had to stop for whatever reason, and

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one of my friends looked up on the hill there

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and he saw what he thought was a stump, but

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it had the shape of someone like maybe if you

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put like lean forward to put your hands on your

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knees and watch something that's kind of the general shape

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it had, apparently, and the other friend that was there

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standing next to him saw two big black blobs in

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the woods. And then the first person who saw the

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more human like shape, it had shoulders in a head,

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but he couldn't see any details. He said. He when

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he's watching it, trying to figure out it's had to stump. Apparently,

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the thing shifted its weight to its other leg and moved,

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like visibly moved. He goes, oh, my gosh, and then

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like turns. The other person said, did you see that?

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And when they both looked up there, the second person

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only saw one dark shape instead of two, and then

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the other and the first guy who saw it didn't

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see it at all then, so it had left. End

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of just a period of time where you turned her

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head and you looked back, it had disappeared. So they

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got me immediately, of course. And then I went up

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there and I found a track. I found a track

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about ten feet away from where they placed me, Like

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it's in that zone right there, you know, And I

241
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looked around and sure there was a fourteen inch track

242
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in the ground then the forest stuff and looked pretty

243
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good to me. We were on the track though we

244
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didn't stop to cast it, though. I may be going

245
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out there tomorrow to do just that, so we will see.

246
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I've got so I've got to bring a lot of

247
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plaster tomorrow. I think there's gonna be some casting in

248
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my very near future. Yeah, yeah, stay tuned for more

249
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Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right

250
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back after these messages. Yeah, lots going on, man, lots

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going on. And then oh that's not even the end

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of it all man sack Squatch came by the museum.

253
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You're familiar with that guy, right, I.

254
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Speaker 4: Never met it bout it, Yeah, lying like no knowing

255
00:12:36,279 --> 00:12:38,840
of each other for like, geez, almost fifteen years.

256
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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's a real nice guy, real nice guy.

257
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So yeah, he came by and he invited us all

258
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to the gig that night, but I had I had

259
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to work with the film crew that night, so I

260
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couldn't go, unfortunately. But maybe next time he does pop

261
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into town, you know, every once in a while.

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Speaker 3: So does he get hired to play as Sasquatch. He's

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00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,639
like a real musician that plays gigs.

264
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Speaker 2: Oh, he's a real musician that plays gigs. That's what

265
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I thought. Oh yeah, he's great. He's great. Man. I

266
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saw him for the first time at one of these

267
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Tennessee things that I did a couple of years ago.

268
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I think you were at that one, Matt. I couldn't

269
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can't remember, but you can tell he was pro too, man,

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because he just plays the backing tracks, you know. He

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does funny songs like Careless Whisper and that stuff, you know.

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But he's a good player. He's like a legit player.

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And I remember on stage at the Tennessee thing and

274
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there's like a sea of people. It's a big event, right,

275
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There's thousands of people there. He's on stage and in

276
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the middle of the song, the power went off on stage,

277
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you know, and he plays the backing tracks, so there's

278
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nothing he can do about that. And I'm thinking, oh,

279
00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,440
that's a bummer, and everybody you can hear the audible,

280
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oh like in the audience and that sort of stuff.

281
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But this guy Sasquatch and this is this is when

282
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I knew he was pro. Instead of just some hack

283
00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,519
trying to make money off the Bigfoot thing, he kept going.

284
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He turned that into an opportunity to perform. So he

285
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,600
just he just turned it up to eleven. So to speak,

286
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not the volume because he was unamplified, but turned his

287
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,600
antics up to eleven, went to the front of the stage,

288
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and I jumped off the stage and was walking around

289
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,440
in the audience playing, and everybody just loved it, like

290
00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:10,279
he saved the show. He wasn't going to accept defeat

291
00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:14,559
because of a technical issue. He turned that technical issue

292
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into part of the show and then outperformed what he

293
00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,320
probably would have done anyway. So I have great admiration

294
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,519
for professionals, professional entertainers and musicians who make it happen

295
00:14:24,559 --> 00:14:26,440
no matter what the case, instead of bailing out and

296
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,559
feeling sorry for themselves. So he was clearly well pro.

297
00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:32,120
There's just no other way to say it. He's pro.

298
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Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, So I guess we're going to dive

299
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,519
into some William Rowe report act Sean.

300
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we've been doing these deep dives lately in

301
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,759
the articles or particular items in the Bigfoot lore and

302
00:14:45,799 --> 00:14:48,320
whatever else, and we thought a fun way to deal

303
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,120
or fun thing to do today would be the William

304
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,360
Rowe siding, which of course is one of the old

305
00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:55,480
standards I guess of the old time Bigfoot stuff. I

306
00:14:55,519 --> 00:14:57,720
think the if I remember right, this it happened in

307
00:14:57,799 --> 00:15:00,519
nineteen fifty seven, so it even predates the word bigfoot

308
00:15:00,879 --> 00:15:03,440
fifty five. Well, there you go. It pretty eates the

309
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,879
word bigfoot in the general consciousness. Some pretty cool stuff.

310
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, he reported it in fifty seven, but yeah, the event,

311
00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,399
as he tells it, occurred in nineteen fifty five. So yeah,

312
00:15:13,399 --> 00:15:15,320
when we were doing those deep dives on some of

313
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,559
the more classic articles, we had in the discussion mentioned like,

314
00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:20,200
oh maybe we should do this with like the William

315
00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:22,879
Rose siding or Albert Osman or something, and so a

316
00:15:22,879 --> 00:15:25,159
lot of emails came in saying, oh, please cover those.

317
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,360
Speaker 3: So yeah, this seems like a good time to cover

318
00:15:27,519 --> 00:15:28,080
Old Bill.

319
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:29,759
Speaker 2: Nice old Bill.

320
00:15:30,279 --> 00:15:33,759
Speaker 1: Old Bill wrote, Well, I do have the affidavit pulled

321
00:15:33,799 --> 00:15:38,080
up here, I think let me refer to my reference materials.

322
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,720
But I do believe that he had actually initially submitted

323
00:15:42,759 --> 00:15:45,840
his story. Yeah, he had initially submitted his story to

324
00:15:45,919 --> 00:15:48,799
a Vancouver newspaper called The Province, and that was in

325
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,279
response to the press coverage that was happening about the

326
00:15:51,759 --> 00:15:54,240
centennial Sasquatch hunt that you know, John Green was a

327
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,759
part of that was occurring in like those meetings there

328
00:15:56,799 --> 00:16:00,279
in and around Vancouver and Harrison, Hot Springs, Agasies, etc.

329
00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:03,440
And so that's what prompted Roe, reading that press coverage

330
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,200
to submit his story to that newspaper. And then he

331
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,159
was subsequently interviewed on air by a Canadian radio personality,

332
00:16:11,159 --> 00:16:14,639
a guy named Jack Webster, and that interview is preserved

333
00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:17,159
by Todd Prescott at the Sasquatch Archives. So I will

334
00:16:17,159 --> 00:16:19,440
put a link to that in the show notes if

335
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,000
you want to hear it. And then subsequent to that,

336
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,879
then Roe gave a sworn statement I think at the

337
00:16:24,919 --> 00:16:28,519
behest of John Green, and so probably the most detailed account.

338
00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,480
I mean, between all three of those you get a

339
00:16:30,519 --> 00:16:34,200
pretty detailed picture. But I did send you guys the affidavit,

340
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,039
so maybe we can use that as the central narrative.

341
00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:39,080
Speaker 2: Suret, how do we want to work this?

342
00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 1: I think we do it like we were doing those papers,

343
00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:44,080
and just you know, read through it and see what

344
00:16:44,159 --> 00:16:46,320
thoughts emerge as we read through it. I mean, we

345
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,399
could read it verbatim or just go to the most

346
00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,679
relevant portions, but it's not terribly long, so I think

347
00:16:50,679 --> 00:16:53,320
it would be easy to get through, or at least,

348
00:16:53,399 --> 00:16:55,440
you know, we could cover the fact that this comes

349
00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,679
from an affidavit that was sworn in the city of Edmonton, Alberta,

350
00:16:58,879 --> 00:17:02,720
on August twenty fifty seven, and it opens with him

351
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,759
basically saying that, you know, as a young man, apparently

352
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:08,680
he grew up in Michigan, he's always been really interested

353
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,119
in spotting animals, animal behavior, of following animals. And then

354
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,559
he quote supported family in northern Alberta by hunting and trapping,

355
00:17:16,759 --> 00:17:20,319
spending many wild hours observing wild things, and he says

356
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,039
the most incredible experience I ever had with a wild

357
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:26,039
creature occurred near a little town called and I've never

358
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:27,880
known do you guys know how to pronounce this, because

359
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,920
I've only ever read it, I've never heard it said.

360
00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:32,039
Speaker 2: No, I don't know how to say that.

361
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,680
Speaker 1: Tete Jon Cash, I have no idea sounds sounds right?

362
00:17:36,839 --> 00:17:41,200
What is called TJC for short in British Columbia, about

363
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,920
eighty miles west of Jasper, Alberta. He continues, I'd been

364
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,319
working on the highway near TJC for about two years.

365
00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:52,559
In October nineteen fifty five, I decided to climb five

366
00:17:52,599 --> 00:17:55,200
miles up Micah Mountain to an old deserted mine, just

367
00:17:55,279 --> 00:17:57,720
for something to do. I came in sight of the mind.

368
00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,839
About three o'clock in the afternoon after an easy c

369
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,359
I had just come out of a patch of low

370
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,839
brush into a clearing when I saw what I thought

371
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,279
was a grizzly bear in the bush on the other side.

372
00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:10,039
I shot a grizzly near that spot the year before.

373
00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:12,720
This one was about seventy five yards away, but I

374
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:14,440
didn't want to shoot it for I had no way

375
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,440
of getting it out, So I sat down on a

376
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,000
small rock and watched my rifle in my hands.

377
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, even right there, Initially your mind tries

378
00:18:23,279 --> 00:18:25,640
to put what you see into categories. And since he

379
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,440
had already had experience with grizzly bears at that location,

380
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,440
it makes total sense that the first thought was, yeah,

381
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,039
that's a grizzly bear, because they come here, I've already

382
00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:36,519
shot one in this area. But it also begs the

383
00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:37,960
question on the other side, and I know that we've

384
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,839
spoken about this before. It's like, how many times has

385
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,920
a sasquatch been initially identified as a bear but vice

386
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,839
versa too? How many the mistake goes the other direction?

387
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,079
Like how many times has a bear been misidentified as

388
00:18:50,079 --> 00:18:52,319
a sasquatch? Now, if you're a skeptic, you have to

389
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,440
argue that all of them pretty much are or most

390
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,039
of them right, but certainly goes the other direction. I

391
00:18:58,039 --> 00:19:00,480
think that that's why this is one of my favorite

392
00:19:00,519 --> 00:19:04,119
classic sightings by far, because it has so many interesting

393
00:19:04,319 --> 00:19:08,079
details built into it that are still super relevant today.

394
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,240
The guy was looking at a sasquatch and he thought

395
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,160
it was a bear. That certainly must happen quite often.

396
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:16,880
Speaker 1: I wish I knew more about the setting other than

397
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,119
the fact that it's just coming out of low brush

398
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,640
into a clearing. I wonder if it fits that description

399
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:23,599
of some of these other places where there's a slope

400
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,480
on one or both sides, or a creek or a stream,

401
00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:29,039
you know, some sort of like waterway in or at

402
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:31,599
the edge of the clearing. But it is interesting that it's,

403
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,680
you know, basically in or at the edge of this

404
00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:37,000
small clearing. And you know, if you look at this

405
00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:39,880
on Google Maps, you can see Mike Mountain and try

406
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,200
to pick out a clearing, and there's a lot of them,

407
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,160
so and I'm sure there's probably a lot of old

408
00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,480
minds up there too, So I wish you knew exactly

409
00:19:46,519 --> 00:19:49,119
where on Mike Mountain it was wouldn't that be nice,

410
00:19:49,839 --> 00:19:52,440
So he continues, I could see part of the animal's

411
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,119
head and the top of one shoulder. A moment later,

412
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,039
it raised up and stepped out into the opening. Then

413
00:19:58,079 --> 00:20:00,519
I saw that it was not a bear. This, to

414
00:20:00,559 --> 00:20:02,960
the best of my recollection, is what the creature looked

415
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,240
like and how it acted as it came across the

416
00:20:05,279 --> 00:20:08,400
clearing directly toward me. My first impression was of a

417
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,880
huge man about six feet tall, almost three feet wide,

418
00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,440
and probably weighing somewhere near three hundred pounds. It was

419
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,480
covered from head to foot with dark brown, silver tipped hair.

420
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:21,119
But as it came closer, I saw by its breasts

421
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:22,000
that it was female.

422
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,680
Speaker 2: Well so, the way it acts or the way it looked,

423
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,400
I think even the first impression, Okay, a huge man

424
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,680
six feet tall, three feet wide. I hear that very often,

425
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,319
whether it's big male sasquatches eight feet tall, four feet wide,

426
00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:40,519
you know, or like you know, females they're almost half

427
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:43,000
as wide as they are tall. Yeah, I think that's

428
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,599
very very interesting. But also I'd like to point out

429
00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:49,400
that three hundred pounds would be vastly underestimating that weight

430
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,200
for a huge man three feet wide. Six feet tall,

431
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,920
that would be at least probably four or five hundred pounds.

432
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 1: Oh, I would think so. I mean, we know folks

433
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,279
who are six feet tall or thereabout three hundred plus mounds.

434
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly exactly. But even like a stack to

435
00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:09,079
like a big barrel, you know these things, weight goes up,

436
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,799
like as we all know, exponentially, whereas height goes up linearly.

437
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,880
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting too, the description of the hair,

438
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,000
because I always wonder how hair might correlate to age

439
00:21:19,559 --> 00:21:21,960
in terms of being this dark brown with silver tips.

440
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,559
You know, is that the beginning of gray or something

441
00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:27,759
like that, or maybe that's just a function of the sunlight,

442
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,240
or maybe that's just the hair of a young adult.

443
00:21:30,319 --> 00:21:32,400
Who knows, But I do find that interesting.

444
00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:36,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, there's differs between like old white hair and

445
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,680
then silver like a silver sheene. There's a lot of young,

446
00:21:40,759 --> 00:21:45,359
healthy animals. How about silvery machine on their like lighter tip,

447
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:49,440
silvery tip like or not like like silver tip like

448
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,480
in low light button like if there's a sun that

449
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,799
really will shine like that like that silver.

450
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, if it was

451
00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,519
dawn or dusk or something, it might have looked almost

452
00:21:59,559 --> 00:22:01,880
jet black. If it was dark brown, you know, without

453
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:04,359
being illuminated, it could have looked black to the eye

454
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:05,880
in a very very dark who.

455
00:22:05,799 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 2: Nose, Matt. You have some ideas about silver tips and

456
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,640
hair colors among sasquatches, don't you.

457
00:22:11,279 --> 00:22:13,759
Speaker 1: But it's really interesting when you're looking at reports of

458
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,680
smaller individuals up to larger individuals, not just in height

459
00:22:17,759 --> 00:22:19,759
but in mass, there does seem to be a trend

460
00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:22,519
of like ink black, you know, very very dark black,

461
00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:26,079
to darker brown, to lighter brown, to red like cinnamon red,

462
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,599
to blonde, then to that coyote sort of gray, and

463
00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:33,559
then occasionally like we've talked about, but sometimes there's white

464
00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:36,279
ones people talking about almost like paper white in a

465
00:22:36,319 --> 00:22:38,240
way like polar bear white.

466
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, definitely, I mean coyote colored like maybe like

467
00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:45,200
kind of darker brown here than like almost black, then

468
00:22:45,319 --> 00:22:49,440
like a tan light brown patches. You hear that sometimes,

469
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,880
but not nearly as much as like with like cans is.

470
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: It's just really interesting that there is that correlation between size, height, mass,

471
00:22:59,519 --> 00:23:02,720
and color that generally smaller and shorter, the darker, the

472
00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:05,759
taller and wider, more massive, the lightering color. So I

473
00:23:05,799 --> 00:23:07,839
do think there's probably some connection with age.

474
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, I think I think there's I think there's yeah,

475
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:11,119
I mean there's definitely that.

476
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,119
Speaker 3: Like you don't hear about young like white ones too often.

477
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,759
Like it's it's rare, really rare.

478
00:23:15,759 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 5: I heard one here the big Klimath up to the

479
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,119
mouth of the Klamath, the clout.

480
00:23:20,839 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 4: The river in northern California. They were seeing around the

481
00:23:23,799 --> 00:23:28,119
dump up there, seeing a family three of male adult male,

482
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,720
adult female on a They don't they didn't know if

483
00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:32,799
it was a boiler girl, but a young a young one,

484
00:23:32,799 --> 00:23:35,319
like you know, like a four to four and a half,

485
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:36,960
five and a half, like over the course of a

486
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,920
couple of years, it was, you know, like everyone's around

487
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,920
five foot give or take. They went they were seeing

488
00:23:43,319 --> 00:23:47,240
since they apparently traveled east after a couple of years

489
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,599
being here on the coast, and they went crossover to

490
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,920
the Sierra Devadas, went all the way down to southern California,

491
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,119
cross over with the grape mine like Ventura Mountains, and

492
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,359
then went back up north, went all the way up

493
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,720
to Santa Cruz, past Santa Cruz up to Monterey.

494
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 3: Because about three.

495
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,519
Speaker 4: Or four years after they left here, bart got two

496
00:24:05,559 --> 00:24:09,400
reports of people seeing three white ones together like a

497
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,640
little family group down there, so they would have had

498
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,920
to and like there was reports in the current county

499
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,400
of them. There's a couple of reports of them around

500
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,799
that way and then up east Abount Shasta.

501
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: No, that's really interesting starting to find there's a couple

502
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,160
of passages in Sanderson's book where he talks about that

503
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,759
change in coloration with size, which I had sort of

504
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:32,759
forgotten that he had referenced that. So when I was

505
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,279
writing The Phenomenal Sasquaestion, I was finding a lot of

506
00:24:35,279 --> 00:24:37,599
that stuff again. I was like, Oh, I wonder if

507
00:24:37,599 --> 00:24:39,759
anyone's ever pointed this out, and seemed like it was new.

508
00:24:39,759 --> 00:24:41,440
But then I reread some of the Sanderson and I

509
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:43,519
was like, oh, he picked up on that trend back

510
00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:46,079
in the late fifties and early sixties.

511
00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:46,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

512
00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's definitely a factor of age

513
00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:51,440
and size, but I don't think it means like necessarily

514
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,480
that they're like they could be like like like that

515
00:24:54,599 --> 00:24:58,119
silver like the silver ones could be like not old,

516
00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,799
like the toy in their prime.

517
00:25:00,519 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: Well, I started getting my first gray hairs in my twenties,

518
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:08,400
and I certainly wasn't mature then stay tuned for more

519
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,440
Bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right

520
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:12,640
back after these messages.

521
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:21,759
Speaker 1: So Rode goes on with his description to say, quote,

522
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,039
and yet its torso was not curved like a female's.

523
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,920
Its broad frame was straight from shoulder to hip. Its

524
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,640
arms were much thicker than a man's arms and longer,

525
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:31,839
reaching almost.

526
00:25:31,519 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 3: To its knees.

527
00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: Its feet were broader proportionately than a man's, about five

528
00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:38,000
inches wide at the front and tapering to a much

529
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,960
thinner heel. When it walked, it placed the heel of

530
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,119
its foot down first, and I could see the gray

531
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,759
brown skin or hide on the soles of its feet.

532
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a lot to unpack in that paragraph. Man,

533
00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:51,119
there's a lot in there. So okay, So the torso

534
00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,839
was not curved like a female's, well he should have

535
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:57,920
said female humans. Now, of course, the reason female humans

536
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,680
have curved torsos is a broad hip and narrower waist,

537
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:07,119
and the hips are wide to accommodate a large head

538
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,480
size at birth, you know, because humans have the largest

539
00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:13,519
head size at birth of all the primate species. Basically,

540
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,440
it's because we have a greater intelligence. So as the

541
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,880
mister row here is pointing out the frame was, you know,

542
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,119
straight from the shoulder to the hip. And what that

543
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,119
indicates is that sasquatches probably don't have a big head

544
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,519
at birth. They probably have a much smaller head at

545
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:32,279
birth like the other ape species, and therefore they probably

546
00:26:32,319 --> 00:26:35,720
have a similar intelligence level as the other ape species,

547
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,119
which I think is a fascinating insight of how anatomy

548
00:26:39,599 --> 00:26:43,440
reflects other aspects of the creatures. You know, I'm not

549
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,200
sure if that's behavior or not, but you know, in

550
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,480
this case is intelligence level. And then as mister Rowe

551
00:26:48,559 --> 00:26:53,440
keeps going on here, the talks about he got a

552
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,279
glimpse at the feet, and there's a couple of things

553
00:26:56,279 --> 00:26:57,960
going on with the feet here. First of all, its

554
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,319
feet were broader proportionally in the demands about five mench

555
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,960
is wide at the front, tapering to much thinner heels.

556
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,880
Whether he's correct on that five inches or whatever, it

557
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,720
almost doesn't matter. But what he's observing here is what

558
00:27:10,759 --> 00:27:14,599
I commonly refer to as a fan shape foot. There

559
00:27:14,599 --> 00:27:18,200
are many, many examples in the data set about how

560
00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:23,160
of these fanned shaped footprints where they are much wider

561
00:27:23,519 --> 00:27:26,119
in the front than at the heel. Now I wouldn't

562
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,039
say their heels are thin by any stretch of the imagination.

563
00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:32,319
But the fact that the toes and the front part

564
00:27:32,319 --> 00:27:34,480
of the foot, the toes in particular, spread out so

565
00:27:34,599 --> 00:27:37,599
widely because of the flexibility in their feet, would give

566
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:42,279
them a very, very wide appearance, I think. And also

567
00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:45,720
he says it walked with his places heel down first,

568
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,279
and he could see gray brown skin under the soles

569
00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:49,720
of the feet.

570
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:50,519
Speaker 3: Yeah.

571
00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe it's entirely possible that they do walk like this.

572
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,319
What I have observed base, or what I interpret from footprints,

573
00:27:58,599 --> 00:28:02,160
is that I think they they often come down heel first,

574
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,839
but they just as often come down flat footed at

575
00:28:05,839 --> 00:28:09,880
the same time. Now, either one of those things could

576
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,759
be true. Here he did say that it places heel

577
00:28:11,839 --> 00:28:14,240
down first, and he could see the gray brown skin

578
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,319
of the soles of the feet. Well, that would be

579
00:28:16,319 --> 00:28:19,160
because of the flexibility of the bottom part of the foot. Yeah,

580
00:28:19,559 --> 00:28:23,119
it seems that the Sasquatches might lift the front part

581
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,000
of their foot quite high and then place them down

582
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,920
at times. If that mid foot flexibility is in the

583
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,640
indication of their feet in general, like how they place

584
00:28:32,759 --> 00:28:36,759
their foot, so that would give William Rowe a very

585
00:28:36,759 --> 00:28:38,680
good look at the bottom of the foot, I imagine.

586
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 1: I agree, Yeah, I wonder if that was toe's dorsy flexing,

587
00:28:43,119 --> 00:28:45,559
that would give the impression that the heels hitting the

588
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:48,039
ground first, even if the majority of the foot is

589
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,480
touching the ground simultaneously with just the toes dorsy flexing.

590
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could go either way. It could go either way. Right,

591
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,039
So did the heel come down first? And again, there

592
00:28:57,079 --> 00:29:00,799
are plenty of sasquatch prints with the heel more deeply

593
00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:02,720
into the ground than say the mid part of the

594
00:29:02,759 --> 00:29:05,680
foot or something like that, and that would indicate a

595
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,680
heel comes down first. But at the same time, if

596
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,920
it came down a little bit more flat footed, but

597
00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:13,559
the toes pointed up, a dorsey flex, as you correctly

598
00:29:13,599 --> 00:29:16,079
pointed out, is the term for that. Dors I mean

599
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,559
the dorsey I guess is it would be Latin for

600
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,720
indicating on the upward part of the body, like a

601
00:29:20,759 --> 00:29:23,920
dorsal fin Right, the same root word then flex to

602
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,920
courses flexed. You know what that means. But just the

603
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,440
DORSIFLEXI I guess the toes pointing up, the front part

604
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,400
of the foot pointing up would strongly give the impression

605
00:29:33,559 --> 00:29:35,799
of the heel coming down first. This it's a very

606
00:29:35,799 --> 00:29:41,440
interesting and subtle observation here that would later in a way,

607
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,640
it predicts future finds about Sasquatch anatomy, which is always

608
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,759
a very very compelling aspect to anything. Oftentimes, the best

609
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:52,960
theories are the ones that predict later discoveries, and this

610
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:54,759
observation certainly does that.

611
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: He goes on the state that quote. It came to

612
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,920
the edge of the bush I was hiding in, within

613
00:30:00,079 --> 00:30:02,640
twenty feet of me, and squatted down on its haunches.

614
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:05,559
Reaching out its hands, it pulled the branches of bushes

615
00:30:05,599 --> 00:30:08,359
toward it and stripped the leaves with its teeth. Its

616
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,559
lips curled flexibly around the leaves.

617
00:30:10,359 --> 00:30:10,839
Speaker 3: As it ate.

618
00:30:11,279 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: I was close enough to see that its teeth were

619
00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:16,759
white and even. And I actually do have another quote here,

620
00:30:16,799 --> 00:30:19,720
although I'm trying to see this is either from the

621
00:30:19,839 --> 00:30:21,720
letter that he wrote to the province or from the

622
00:30:21,799 --> 00:30:25,279
radio interview, but he had said, quote the fur around

623
00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:28,519
her mouth was all green from the leaves and vegetations

624
00:30:28,559 --> 00:30:30,720
she had eaten. So that's from one of those other

625
00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:33,759
two statements. It's not an affidavit, but it's an interesting

626
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:36,559
additional observation that's not in the affidavit.

627
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:40,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is interesting. Actually, that would.

628
00:30:39,799 --> 00:30:44,119
Speaker 4: Give some kind of indication too, about like their vocalizations,

629
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,759
like the flexibility of the lips like that.

630
00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:50,599
Speaker 2: Well, it's a very ape like characteristic, that's for sure.

631
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,000
I mean you can just look online for orangutans eating

632
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,920
leaves and whatever else, and they used their lips very prehensibly,

633
00:30:58,359 --> 00:31:01,119
I guess that's the right word. Yeah, and grab sort

634
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:01,880
of things like that.

635
00:31:02,599 --> 00:31:02,799
Speaker 3: Yeah.

636
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 2: And then of course the teeth being white, and even

637
00:31:05,079 --> 00:31:08,880
that's another interesting aspect as well, because again, the vast

638
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,359
majority of observations of the teeth indicate that they don't

639
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,880
have prominent canines. And I've spoken to a few witnesses

640
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,640
who were terrified at the time, and they said that

641
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,279
they had projecting canines, but that just might be a

642
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:25,480
fear thing I have several I've spoke to one witness

643
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:29,480
who saw one run its tongue along the row of

644
00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:32,400
teeth like as it watched them, Like its tongue came

645
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,920
out and ran along the row of teeth, which gave

646
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,000
me the opportunity. So no canines, goes, No, no, no

647
00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:39,640
canines at all. They're just flat like a human's now.

648
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:45,920
Of course, doctor Bindernagel has suggested that perhaps larger canines

649
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,279
are a sexually dimorphic trait, and only the largest of

650
00:31:49,319 --> 00:31:51,920
the males would have such things, so that's a possibility

651
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,359
as well, And William Rowe does specifically say that this

652
00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:55,400
was a female.

653
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've talked to a couple of witnesses that have

654
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:01,279
seen them doing the same thing, striping. I grow up

655
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:04,000
in Hoopa the I've talked about few names. I've seen

656
00:32:04,039 --> 00:32:07,240
him doing that with blackberries, just taking like with the

657
00:32:07,319 --> 00:32:10,519
thorns and everything, just putting the viole in their mouth

658
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,880
like and then pulling it, just running it. So it's

659
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,519
just their teeth are stripping everything off leaves, berries, thorns, everything,

660
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:19,759
just and chewing them up.

661
00:32:20,359 --> 00:32:20,559
Speaker 3: Yeah.

662
00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 2: You know, you know, some people like the texture of food,

663
00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:25,359
you know, or some people don't like the texture of food,

664
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,799
like lema beans or something. Maybe they dislike that.

665
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, But he goes on to describe the shape of

666
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,279
the head, saying the head was higher at the back

667
00:32:34,319 --> 00:32:36,960
than at the front, the nose was broad and flat,

668
00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:40,680
the lips and chin protruded farther than its nose, but

669
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,279
the hair that covered it, leaving bear only the parts

670
00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:46,000
of the face around the mouth, nose, and ears made

671
00:32:46,039 --> 00:32:48,880
it resemble an animal as much as a human. None

672
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:50,680
of this hair, even on the back of its head,

673
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,480
was longer than an inch, and that on its face

674
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,839
was much shorter. Its ears were shaped like a human's ears,

675
00:32:57,079 --> 00:32:59,519
but its eyes were small and black like a bear's,

676
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,119
and its neck was also unhuman, thicker and shorter than

677
00:33:03,119 --> 00:33:07,240
any man's I had ever seen. That's like a classic description. Yeah,

678
00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:10,359
very much so, very much so. And again, if these

679
00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:12,559
things are real animals, as we all suggest they are,

680
00:33:12,759 --> 00:33:15,920
it makes perfect sense that all the reports afterwards basically

681
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,279
mirror this description. Skeptics would say that all of them

682
00:33:19,319 --> 00:33:22,480
are based on this one particular encounter, but I think

683
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,160
that's pretty far reaching there.

684
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:24,839
Speaker 3: Oh.

685
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 1: I definitely think that as well. I mean, there are

686
00:33:27,839 --> 00:33:31,720
previous observations that describe similar things that I don't think

687
00:33:32,119 --> 00:33:34,160
William Row would have had access to because most of

688
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,480
them would have been published in you know, small print

689
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:37,319
media publications.

690
00:33:37,359 --> 00:33:38,279
Speaker 3: It would not have been.

691
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: They would have predated a ap wire, so they wouldn't

692
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,720
have been spread around the country or reprinted you know,

693
00:33:43,799 --> 00:33:46,279
internationally up in Canada or these other places.

694
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 2: I love that the head was higher at the back

695
00:33:48,759 --> 00:33:51,400
than at the front, because that's one of those observations

696
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,160
about how above the brow ridge of the sasquatch's face

697
00:33:54,599 --> 00:33:57,799
the head retreats pretty sharply back, suggesting that they don't

698
00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:01,119
have a well developed frontal lobe on their brain, you know,

699
00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:04,039
like the again much again ape like they have an

700
00:34:04,079 --> 00:34:10,079
ape like brain. There's actually physical evidence Martley's observational evidence,

701
00:34:10,119 --> 00:34:13,000
and then a couple of pictures that suggests that they

702
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:17,000
don't have a human like intelligence based on the shape

703
00:34:17,039 --> 00:34:19,320
of their head, because the shape of the head indicates

704
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,840
the shape of the brain. And of course also in

705
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:28,159
this description is a slight prognathism where the mouth comes

706
00:34:28,159 --> 00:34:30,199
out a little bit further than the nose area, so

707
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,760
a slight prognathism, which would of course back up this

708
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:39,159
idea that they are built for chewing. Everything about their skull.

709
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,599
Their skull is built for chewing. I mean, whether the

710
00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:46,239
slight prognathism, which is, you know, the muzzle coming out,

711
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:50,199
or the zygomatic arches or the sagital crest, all that

712
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:55,239
stuff indicates that they are a chewing machine, which gives

713
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,840
some suggestions on their diet, not just leaves in this case,

714
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:03,159
but actually probably some pretty thick fibrous stuff like very bark,

715
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,280
for example, or maybe chewing open bones to try to

716
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:09,119
get the marrow inside, that kind of stuff. Very very

717
00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:13,119
interesting observation here, that again is backed up by countless

718
00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:16,480
of observations and a few photographs. And how would William

719
00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:17,079
row know that?

720
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,519
Speaker 1: I'm looking at older reports. I mean, there's the famous

721
00:35:21,559 --> 00:35:24,639
one from I think it was from the Antioch Ledger

722
00:35:25,159 --> 00:35:28,639
or a Stemba Creek area the Diablo Mountains, the Diablo

723
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,280
Range that described again a sort of a smaller individual,

724
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,840
but in brief said it was quote a full five

725
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,800
feet high, with disproportionately broadened square at the shoulders, with

726
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,559
arms of great length. The head was small compared to

727
00:35:41,599 --> 00:35:43,519
the rest of the creature and appeared to be set

728
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:47,280
upon shoulders without a neck, etc. So yeah, that description

729
00:35:47,639 --> 00:35:51,239
is certainly not original to William Rowe, But like I said,

730
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,760
I don't think he would have had access to a

731
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,800
lot of these earlier descriptions and earlier reports.

732
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,039
Speaker 2: No, he seems like too practical a guy to be

733
00:35:59,039 --> 00:36:00,480
reading that book stuff.

734
00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: And the idea of the you know, the head being

735
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,320
higher at the back than the front, you know, indicating

736
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,400
a saginal crest. I mean, here's a report from the

737
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,760
Globe Valley, which is sort of south of Blowing Rock,

738
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,800
North Carolina, western North Carolina, that was published in eighteen

739
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:19,840
seventy eight, I believe, originally in the Statesfield, North Carolina.

740
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,760
Landmark was the name of the publication, but the article

741
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,920
says quote our correspondent describes the wild man as being

742
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,639
about six feet five inches tall, with broad shoulders and

743
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,159
long apish arms, smooth faiths, and funnel shaped head.

744
00:36:34,039 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 3: Yeah. Funnel shit right, an upside down funnel. Yeah.

745
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: No, I think it means to some degree like that

746
00:36:42,119 --> 00:36:44,280
going to a crest or a point at the top

747
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,000
or rear. So yeah, upside down funnel in a way.

748
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 2: Speaking of its head, here's an area that there doesn't

749
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,960
seem to be consensus on is the length of the hair,

750
00:36:55,559 --> 00:36:58,000
because I think all of us have spoken to witnesses

751
00:36:58,039 --> 00:37:02,760
that indicate that the hair may sometimes have longer the

752
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,800
head may have longer hair on it than other parts

753
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,800
of the body. But in this case, it doesn't like

754
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:09,679
it's an inch or you said, no longer than an inch,

755
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:11,960
even on the back of the head. Well, that's an

756
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:16,639
interesting contrast to other reports but again there's no consensus.

757
00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:19,760
I would say it's a mixture of both of these things. Like,

758
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,280
do either of you think that there is a trend

759
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,159
through most animals you think have longer hair on the

760
00:37:26,199 --> 00:37:28,400
head or shorter hair or is it just a complete

761
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:29,639
random who knows.

762
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 1: I think it has to be individual variation, because I've seen,

763
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,239
you know, big adult black bears. You know, if I

764
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:40,039
think of one place, area X, I've seen adult black

765
00:37:40,039 --> 00:37:43,159
bears down there that had very short, very clean hair,

766
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,960
and then adult black bears the same week in the

767
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,400
same area, you know, just a different individual with like longer,

768
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:53,920
sort of shaggier, scragglier hair. That these are both versus

769
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,280
americanas they're both adults. I got a bunch of pictures

770
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:58,800
of bears that week. In fact, I'll.

771
00:37:58,599 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 3: Post them all on.

772
00:38:00,519 --> 00:38:04,119
Speaker 1: Our Patreon for the pigeons to see. Because with the

773
00:38:04,199 --> 00:38:06,960
land that was being leased there, the landowner put bear

774
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,000
barrels out there for the upcoming bear hunting season, which

775
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,440
would have been after our field season ended, but went

776
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,320
ahead and started putting bait out there. So all of

777
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,360
a sudden, you know, we were surrounded by bears on

778
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,920
a daily basis. We saw ten different bears ten different

779
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,280
individuals in that one week, and some of them had

780
00:38:23,639 --> 00:38:27,679
larger ears with much shaggier ear hair. So be interesting.

781
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,519
Like you'd see like a jet black bear, big individual,

782
00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:34,079
short hair, and you'd see another large adult more like

783
00:38:34,159 --> 00:38:37,199
blackish red, somewhat shaggy, but the ear hair would be

784
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:39,559
quite long, and then other ones that were just like

785
00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:42,920
completely shaggy and sort of fuzzy looking roughly the same size.

786
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,800
So if you looked at just that one species and

787
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,320
all that variation, then you know, I wouldn't have a

788
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,480
problem with one witness saying, yeah, the sasquatch like all

789
00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:53,599
over it was an inch to two inches long, and

790
00:38:53,639 --> 00:38:56,159
other people saying like, no, it was longer in places

791
00:38:56,159 --> 00:38:59,400
and sort of fuzzier looking or quote unquote shaggier in

792
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,039
certain areas than others. I think you'd see that same

793
00:39:03,119 --> 00:39:07,519
variation across individuals of a given species without any issue.

794
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:13,599
Speaker 2: Agreed, Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff

795
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:22,760
and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. I'm

796
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,360
struck by his description of the eyes. They were small

797
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,159
and black like a bear's. You would think that the

798
00:39:29,199 --> 00:39:31,679
eyes well, I mean, I do hear that the eyes

799
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,119
seem small or proportionally correct for a human or something

800
00:39:35,159 --> 00:39:39,159
like that. But whenever I've heard proportionally correct for a human,

801
00:39:39,199 --> 00:39:41,960
I've always considered, well, their heads are larger, so they

802
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:44,840
must have fairly large eyes as well, and when you'd

803
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,679
take into consideration they're semi nocturnal tendencies. Yeah, I think

804
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:51,559
I would think that they had larger eyes. But I'm

805
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:54,679
wondering here if the eyes were small and black like

806
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,039
a bear's, if they just seemed that way because of

807
00:39:58,079 --> 00:40:04,400
the oversized iris, you know, perhaps ticking up the visible

808
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:05,760
surface area of the eye.

809
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 3: Maybe.

810
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 2: So I don't know, but they have bears are nocturnal,

811
00:40:09,599 --> 00:40:12,119
and they do have kind of smallish eyes, so maybe

812
00:40:12,159 --> 00:40:14,559
it just makes perfect sense, and we're back to genetic

813
00:40:14,599 --> 00:40:15,360
diversity again.

814
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 1: He goes on to say, quote, as I watched this creature,

815
00:40:20,079 --> 00:40:22,400
I wondered if some movie company was making a film

816
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,199
at this place, and that what I saw was an

817
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,159
actor made up to look partly human and partly animal.

818
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,599
But as I observed it more, I decided it would

819
00:40:29,599 --> 00:40:31,559
be impossible to fake such a specimen.

820
00:40:32,079 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 3: Anyway.

821
00:40:32,599 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 1: I learned later there was no such company near that area,

822
00:40:35,559 --> 00:40:38,320
nor in fact, did anyone live up Micah Mountain according

823
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,280
to the people who lived in TJC.

824
00:40:41,199 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 2: TJC.

825
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll just figure out how to say it correctly

826
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,440
and record it once and just insert it there. You

827
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,159
remember those old commercials where it would be like so

828
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,639
and so, we can't wait to come to your town

829
00:40:52,679 --> 00:40:56,840
in Bloomington. You know, they have like the overdubbed town names,

830
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,679
so they all have to shoot one commercial and just

831
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,639
overdub the the town.

832
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:01,760
Speaker 3: Maybe I'll do that.

833
00:41:02,159 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we still have to do that for finding Bigfoot.

834
00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:07,360
All the time we would go in and you know,

835
00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:09,559
we're out in the field somewhere, so so we got

836
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:11,960
to do I forget what they called them ADRs or

837
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,000
something like that. I can't remember what the acronym stands for.

838
00:41:14,559 --> 00:41:16,960
We'd go sit in the car like and simulate a

839
00:41:17,079 --> 00:41:19,599
sound booth, and we'd get a recording like, you know,

840
00:41:19,599 --> 00:41:22,800
my audio recording, my field audio recorder, and say things

841
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,920
like over here, bobo, over here, bobo, over here, bobo

842
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:28,960
at like five or six times, and they choose the

843
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,599
one that they like best and they pipe it into

844
00:41:30,599 --> 00:41:32,239
the episode.

845
00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 3: I had to do those.

846
00:41:34,039 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 2: I had to do one of those this week actually

847
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,000
because of documentary crew that I was filming with a

848
00:41:39,079 --> 00:41:43,119
couple months ago. They realized that something I said, something

849
00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:44,719
they asked me to say, by the way, wasn't me.

850
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,760
But I make my own share of mistakes. But in

851
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,400
this case, the production company made a mistake about what

852
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:51,760
something in Latin meant, so I had to go rerecord

853
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:52,639
it to correct it.

854
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: So Roe continues. Finally, the wild thing must have gotten

855
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,719
my scent, for it looked directly at me through an

856
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,840
open in the brush. A look of amazement crossed its face.

857
00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:05,239
It looked so comical at the moment I had to

858
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,239
grin still in a craft's position. It backed up three

859
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:10,880
or four short steps, then straightened up to its full

860
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,320
height and started to walk rapidly back the way it

861
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,840
had come. For a moment, it washed me over his

862
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,519
shoulder as it went, not exactly afraid, but as though

863
00:42:18,559 --> 00:42:21,000
it wanted no contact with anything strange.

864
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,199
Speaker 3: You hear that, You hear that a lot? I mean

865
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:24,199
that's I mean you hear.

866
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 5: I mean you see it on other primates and and

867
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,199
mammals like I mean, you see it on your dogs

868
00:42:29,199 --> 00:42:29,880
and cast stuff.

869
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,119
Speaker 4: But they that look of shock and surprise. I mean,

870
00:42:32,159 --> 00:42:34,000
I can just see it on the sasquatches. You see

871
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,880
it on like when you watch chimp and gorilla Rangontown videos.

872
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,679
It's like, you see those face expresses look so human.

873
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:43,679
I can just I can just imagine seeing that, you know,

874
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,360
what he saw it like, because a lot of people

875
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:46,239
have described that.

876
00:42:47,159 --> 00:42:49,119
Speaker 2: I have to wonder if it's sent though, you know,

877
00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:53,199
because apes in general aren't, you know, scent oriented critters.

878
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,679
We're more visually oriented. And of course this sort of

879
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,800
thing where you know, a sasquatch notices a human some

880
00:43:00,079 --> 00:43:03,000
times that happens at great distances and not just you know,

881
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,119
ten feet or however far away. Mister Row was from

882
00:43:06,119 --> 00:43:09,159
this animal. I know one witness who saw one on

883
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,079
he was on his property, but he saw one on

884
00:43:12,119 --> 00:43:15,480
his neighbor's property. And they have like long, skinny properties,

885
00:43:15,519 --> 00:43:18,960
you know. And so this animal that my friend observed

886
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,000
was two hundred yards away, one hundred fifty yards away,

887
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,599
probably probably closer to one hundred fifty yards away, and

888
00:43:26,079 --> 00:43:30,960
it saw him because he shifted his weight and the

889
00:43:31,039 --> 00:43:34,320
gravel under his feet on the gravel driveway did a

890
00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,800
little crunch, just a slight crunch, and from that distance,

891
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,760
the thing turned its head and looked immediately at my

892
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:45,119
buddy before running off. But I think that was an

893
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:48,280
audio queue, not an olfactory queue.

894
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,119
Speaker 4: And sometimes it seems like I mean, audio for sure

895
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:53,719
is part of it, but it's just something like when

896
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,519
they DisCrit like I was just frozen, like and it

897
00:43:56,639 --> 00:43:59,760
was you know, one hundred whatever, three hundred yards out

898
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:04,000
and they're sitting in a in a blind and hunting,

899
00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:06,599
you know, and the thing just snaps its head back

900
00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:09,320
on its directly out of like without scanning, just locks

901
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,920
in instantly, Like I've heard that so many times I

902
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:12,840
can't even count.

903
00:44:13,639 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder, since he was so close to it,

904
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:17,920
if it just saw him, because apes, like, you know,

905
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,320
we are apes, All apes have color vision. We have

906
00:44:20,639 --> 00:44:24,719
the best vision in the mammalian world. And you know,

907
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,280
he wasn't hunting. He was there looking for old minds.

908
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:28,559
And he had said, like, you know, I shot a

909
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:30,880
grizzly there before, but I wasn't there to hunt grizzlies

910
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,559
that day and wasn't prepared to take one out even

911
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:35,679
if I encountered one, So I wasn't going to shoot one.

912
00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:39,239
So he probably wasn't wearing you know, camouflage or trying

913
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:42,559
to dress like a hunter or be undetectable so it

914
00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:44,679
might have just seen him at that distance, even though

915
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,119
he was brushed up.

916
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 2: As we say, yeah, any hunter is going to immediately

917
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,920
go towards the smell thing. You can look and I

918
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,480
bet all of our emails, but I know on finding Bigfoot,

919
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:57,719
one of the big critiques we got constantly from hunters

920
00:44:58,199 --> 00:45:01,320
is that we weren't descenting in sitting still and wearing

921
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:04,079
camo and all this sort of stuff. But decenting is

922
00:45:04,199 --> 00:45:07,119
always one of the first things people say because they're

923
00:45:07,199 --> 00:45:10,400
hunting deer, and deer, of course have amazing sense of smell,

924
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,480
or even bear bear have amazing senses of smell, but

925
00:45:14,119 --> 00:45:17,719
not primates. I mean, they probably have a better sense

926
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,039
than humans do because we have domesticated ourselves. But if

927
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:24,599
we were living out in the wild and depending upon

928
00:45:24,679 --> 00:45:27,679
our senses for survival more than we are now, I

929
00:45:27,679 --> 00:45:29,760
don't think we would have ever lost and kind of

930
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,559
dulled our sense of smell, and we'd have a wild

931
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:34,960
sense of smell like these animals and will certainly do.

932
00:45:35,519 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: Oh I agree, I still do the like I use

933
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,440
the descenting detergents and things like that on my field clothes.

934
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,920
I don't use regular like scented laundry detergents and things

935
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:47,079
of that nature, and then some of the descenting sprays.

936
00:45:47,199 --> 00:45:49,400
Not because I think they have a sense of smell

937
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:51,079
like a deer or a bear, but it's just like

938
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,400
I think, if you treat them as if they do,

939
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,360
it's just helpful, you know, if you act as if

940
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,280
they might be able to Like, every precaution isbably be

941
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,840
helpful if you're intending to avoid detection. Like if it's

942
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:06,559
if I'm just hiking and looking for sign and hoping

943
00:46:06,559 --> 00:46:08,760
to have a spontaneous encounter, I'm not too worried about

944
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:12,639
it because I'm visually detectable. But if the day's goal

945
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,960
is like, hey, we're going to wear ur tones are camouflage,

946
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:17,280
and we're going to hide and build a little blind

947
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,800
or be hidden and just wait with cameras for a

948
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,599
long time, almost like you're hunting, well, then yeah, I

949
00:46:22,599 --> 00:46:25,480
think it is important to at least give that a shot,

950
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,599
and also to avoid being detected by other animals, because

951
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:31,719
who knows, If all the other animals avoid that place

952
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,639
because they smell human smells, then maybe sasquatches are savvy

953
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:37,920
enough to pick up on the fact that other animals

954
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,360
are avoiding that area too. I mean, I think scent

955
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,360
attractants seem to work. There's plenty of cases that sort

956
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,760
of suggest that, So why wouldn't it work in the

957
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,039
opposite way that Like, well, if you could attract a

958
00:46:50,119 --> 00:46:53,159
sasquatch with an enticing scent, why couldn't you repel one

959
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:54,199
with a threatening scent?

960
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:54,519
Speaker 2: You know?

961
00:46:55,159 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 1: And I've been in the field with people who didn't

962
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,599
take the scent thing seriously. So they'd have the gilly

963
00:47:00,639 --> 00:47:03,159
suit or the leafy flage, but they'd get up and

964
00:47:03,199 --> 00:47:04,880
camp in the morning and shave and put on like

965
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,639
aqua velva and then hide. And it's like, well, hey,

966
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:09,800
you know, it might not see you, but it's going

967
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:11,719
to smell you, man, because I can smell you from

968
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,000
over here. Maybe that'll work to your advantage. Maybe it'll

969
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,840
come investigate that strange smell and not see you. But still, like,

970
00:47:17,519 --> 00:47:19,400
I think it's got to be one or the other.

971
00:47:19,519 --> 00:47:21,440
You know, aquavelva works.

972
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,800
Speaker 2: That's what a Chris Minier was using when he brought

973
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,039
that sasquatch in and saw it.

974
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,199
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, with the soaking bandanas or something, right.

975
00:47:28,119 --> 00:47:30,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, he soaked a bandana full of aqua velva and

976
00:47:30,639 --> 00:47:33,320
then hung it and let the wind waft. It's it's

977
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,159
lovely scent, and it brought one in. It brought one in.

978
00:47:36,199 --> 00:47:38,280
It worked. I mean, it could just be a coincidence,

979
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:41,039
but maybe it isn't. People swear by the bacon thing.

980
00:47:41,079 --> 00:47:43,039
But I mean, I've cooked an eight a pound of

981
00:47:43,039 --> 00:47:45,400
bacon alone in the woods before. All it did for

982
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:47,920
me is, you know, it changed my blood pressure.

983
00:47:49,559 --> 00:47:51,639
Speaker 1: So Rod goes on to say, the thought came to

984
00:47:51,679 --> 00:47:53,639
me that if I shot it, I would possibly have

985
00:47:53,679 --> 00:47:56,360
a specimen of great interest to scientists the world over.

986
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,159
I had heard stories of the Sasquatch, the giant hairy

987
00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:02,079
indians that live in the legends of British Columbia Indians,

988
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,360
and also many claim are still in fact alive today.

989
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,880
Maybe this was a Sasquatch, I told myself. I leveled

990
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,440
my rifle. The creature was still walking rapidly away, again

991
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,960
turning its head to look in my direction. I lowered

992
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,920
the rifle. Although I've called the creature it, I felt

993
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:19,760
now that it was a human being, and I knew

994
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,480
I would never forgive myself if I killed it. And

995
00:48:22,519 --> 00:48:25,039
that's an interesting point, you know. He says that in

996
00:48:25,079 --> 00:48:28,079
that moment. But there's an interesting letter that he wrote

997
00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:30,480
to John Green in the aftermath. I guess as they're

998
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:34,960
still communicating about sasquatch research in the pursuit, he had

999
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:39,679
written to Green that sasquatch investigators quote have got to

1000
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:43,159
get away from the idea of comparing it it, you know,

1001
00:48:43,199 --> 00:48:45,920
a sasquatch to a human being as we know them,

1002
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:47,519
which is really interesting.

1003
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,800
Speaker 2: Who said that, William Rowe or John Green.

1004
00:48:50,039 --> 00:48:52,519
Speaker 1: William Rowe said that in a letter to John Green

1005
00:48:53,119 --> 00:48:56,159
that the Sasquatch investigators had to like abandon that idea

1006
00:48:56,199 --> 00:48:58,159
that they quote have to get away from the idea

1007
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,800
of comparing the sasquatch to a human being as we

1008
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:01,280
know them.

1009
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent agreed. Did he go on to

1010
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:04,760
give reasons for that?

1011
00:49:05,599 --> 00:49:05,760
Speaker 3: Now?

1012
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,800
Speaker 1: I pulled that quote from one of Green's writings. I'd

1013
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,480
love to see if that whole letter exists and its

1014
00:49:12,679 --> 00:49:15,559
entirety somewhere. But I just thought that was interesting because

1015
00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:17,880
in the affidavit he says like, I felt now that

1016
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:19,679
it was a human being, and I knew I would

1017
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,840
never forgive myself and if I killed it. So maybe

1018
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,320
he's just describing the sort of emotions of the phenomenological

1019
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,199
experience of being in that moment of like, I can't

1020
00:49:28,199 --> 00:49:30,440
bring myself to shoot this thing because it's more human

1021
00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:34,079
like than an animal, and then in subsequent time saying like, hey,

1022
00:49:34,079 --> 00:49:36,280
these are not people as we know them, as we

1023
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,239
know people to be, et cetera. But who knows. But

1024
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,760
I always think, if this story was true, had he

1025
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,239
pulled that trigger, we have all grown up in a

1026
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,880
very different world. Not saying that I'm advocating for that,

1027
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:50,480
but it would have been a dundeed by the time

1028
00:49:50,559 --> 00:49:52,360
we were all born if he had, if he had

1029
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,119
followed through with that at that time, yeah, yeah, he might've.

1030
00:49:56,159 --> 00:49:58,119
Speaker 3: He might have got taken out. And still an end

1031
00:49:58,159 --> 00:49:59,440
of mission is a mission to be what up? And

1032
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,800
William ruh oh yeah that's.

1033
00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: A good point.

1034
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,519
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, end up in one of the historic Polites

1035
00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:06,440
books or something like that.

1036
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 3: Wow.

1037
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,079
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I did say that I agree with

1038
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,960
sasquatches being taken out of the human camp, but I

1039
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,079
want to point out to listeners who maybe are new

1040
00:50:18,199 --> 00:50:20,719
or maybe don't know me as well as maybe you could.

1041
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:23,239
I guess that does not mean that I would have

1042
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,960
any less respect for a sasquatch or any other ape species.

1043
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:31,039
I am personally an advocate of the forward thinking governments

1044
00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:33,519
of like Portugal and Spain, and I think there's one

1045
00:50:33,559 --> 00:50:36,920
in Central or South America now that are advocating giving

1046
00:50:37,039 --> 00:50:40,960
apes and also cetaceans, whales and dolphins and stuff limited

1047
00:50:41,039 --> 00:50:44,000
human rights, not that they say that they're human, but

1048
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:47,039
the similar rights as a human might. And a lot

1049
00:50:47,039 --> 00:50:49,639
of that is like self determinism and that kind of thing.

1050
00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:52,079
I just caught in the news this past week that

1051
00:50:52,159 --> 00:50:54,199
several countries, and I think Mexico is one of them,

1052
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,400
I remember, and I think there's another one again, I

1053
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:57,920
can't remember which one it is, but you can look

1054
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,480
it up yourself. They're stopping like whale and dolphin shows,

1055
00:51:01,679 --> 00:51:04,159
particularly the whale shows, you know, which are generally bad

1056
00:51:04,199 --> 00:51:07,960
idea to torturey an animal like that and by living it,

1057
00:51:08,079 --> 00:51:11,440
making it live in an equivalent of a five foot page. Yeah. So,

1058
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,400
just because I don't think sasquatches are human or should

1059
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,199
be treated as such, does not mean that I think

1060
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:21,880
they should be on a significantly lower lower tier of respect.

1061
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,480
I think that we should be giving these animals ape

1062
00:51:24,519 --> 00:51:27,280
species in particular, and also the great whale, like the

1063
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:32,800
whales like orcas and stuff very similar rights as human beings,

1064
00:51:33,079 --> 00:51:37,119
which would include like self determinism or if they are

1065
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,719
kept in any sort of enclosure, like obviously the best

1066
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:42,440
health in the world and all that healthcare in the

1067
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:44,440
world and all that sort of stuff. I'm not one

1068
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:47,480
of these people that just because it's not human means

1069
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:50,119
we don't have to respect it. I was told by

1070
00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:53,840
a researcher that if I talk about sasquatches like they

1071
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,000
are people, then people will respect them like such. But

1072
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,519
I think that's just ass backwards, man. I think that

1073
00:51:59,559 --> 00:52:03,199
people to learn to respect animals more. Oh, I agree.

1074
00:52:03,239 --> 00:52:07,119
Speaker 1: And if we think that designating things as people will

1075
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:11,159
immediately demand respect from people, I don't think you've ever

1076
00:52:11,199 --> 00:52:12,840
seen how people treat people.

1077
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you should get a Facebook account for a second,

1078
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:21,360
go check it out. Yeah, stay tuned for more Bigfoot

1079
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,039
and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back

1080
00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:25,039
after these messages.

1081
00:52:31,519 --> 00:52:34,280
Speaker 1: So the sighting concludes, He says, just as it came

1082
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,440
to the other patch of brush, it threw its head

1083
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,519
back and made a peculiar noise that seemed to be

1084
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,719
half laugh and half language, which I can only describe

1085
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,920
as a kind of winny. Then it walked from the

1086
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,239
small brush into a stand of lodgepole pine. I stepped

1087
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:49,719
out into the opening and looked across a small ridge

1088
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,440
just beyond the pine to see if I could see

1089
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,599
it again. It came out on a ridge a couple

1090
00:52:53,639 --> 00:52:56,039
of hundred yards away from me, tipped its head back

1091
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:58,639
again and again emitted the only sound I had heard

1092
00:52:58,679 --> 00:53:01,519
it make. But what this half laugh, half language was

1093
00:53:01,559 --> 00:53:04,400
meant to convey, I do not know. It disappeared then

1094
00:53:04,599 --> 00:53:07,480
and I never saw it again. So I'm trying to

1095
00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:10,039
picture that sound. You know what that could be? That

1096
00:53:10,199 --> 00:53:14,400
half laugh, half language like a word slash laugh winnie.

1097
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:18,039
I don't think of other recordings or descriptions that come

1098
00:53:18,079 --> 00:53:18,480
to mind that.

1099
00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 3: Approximately, I will say, like a hyena.

1100
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: See, I've never heard a witness like compared to that.

1101
00:53:23,519 --> 00:53:26,119
But there must just be some other descriptor that people

1102
00:53:26,199 --> 00:53:26,800
have used.

1103
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,199
Speaker 3: I've heard I've heard hyaena dozens of times, like kind

1104
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:30,519
of light.

1105
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got no comment on that one. I don't know.

1106
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 3: Well.

1107
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: I will say this that one of the things that

1108
00:53:37,559 --> 00:53:40,960
I picked up from that Sandy Ridge trailhead sighting is

1109
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:43,480
that the animal up there, the animal was observed it

1110
00:53:43,599 --> 00:53:46,719
ran off. The guys lost sight of it and they

1111
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,639
they left the area. But upon further investigation following the

1112
00:53:50,679 --> 00:53:53,639
tracks set it left behind, we found that it actually

1113
00:53:53,639 --> 00:53:56,599
only ran about one hundred yards and then sat down

1114
00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,719
and waited for the guys to go away. They thought

1115
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,880
it just left the area completely and they didn't know

1116
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:05,440
what direction it went, but further investigation indicated that the

1117
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:08,360
animal of the sasquatch actually just sat down amongst the

1118
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:11,039
ferns and waited for the guys to go away. And

1119
00:54:11,119 --> 00:54:13,239
that's not the only case of a sasquatch is running

1120
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:15,320
a little distance and then a hunkering down waiting for

1121
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:17,719
the people to go away. But in this case it

1122
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:20,719
kept walking for hundreds of yards. It looks like that

1123
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,960
is an interesting behavior because in my presentation on the

1124
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,239
Sandy Ridge trailhead siding event, I was commenting to like,

1125
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,360
if you think you're a bigfoot researcher and you see

1126
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:32,320
one of these things, what we can learn from this

1127
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,199
is to go after it with a camera running because

1128
00:54:35,199 --> 00:54:37,039
if you can get a picture of a sasquatch standing

1129
00:54:37,119 --> 00:54:40,559
up from its seemingly hidden position and running off again,

1130
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,280
that would be cool. Who wouldn't want that. But in

1131
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,679
this case, it just kept going and going and going.

1132
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:50,360
So again we have a I'll say it's a discrepancy

1133
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,440
and behavior, but that doesn't mean one's true and one's not.

1134
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,199
It just means one did one thing and one did

1135
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,880
another thing. But I still think it would be a

1136
00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:03,119
valuable strategy to follow a sasquatch the direction it went,

1137
00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:07,000
just in case. Just in case, because when Bob Tipmans

1138
00:55:07,039 --> 00:55:11,000
visited the PG film site, he apparently found that the

1139
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:12,960
thing went off into the brush and sat down and

1140
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:16,480
watched Roger and Bob doing whatever they're doing at the site.

1141
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,840
So I don't know, I don't know if that whole

1142
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,199
situation is real. Then we have two examples of these

1143
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:24,599
things hanging out waiting for the people to go away.

1144
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,639
But then William Rose case, it sought several hundred yards

1145
00:55:28,679 --> 00:55:30,199
away and kept going.

1146
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is I was looking through Sanderson's

1147
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,920
book here to not to do a callback to an

1148
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:37,960
earlier point, but I was looking for this reference earlier

1149
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,480
where he was describing the coloration and age correlation, and

1150
00:55:41,639 --> 00:55:43,960
he was talking about some of those early sightings leading

1151
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:48,000
up to William Rowe and these color differentiations as they

1152
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:52,119
relate to size, and he said quote, some gorillas develop

1153
00:55:52,159 --> 00:55:55,519
a distinct gingery tinge the black of mammalian hair being

1154
00:55:55,519 --> 00:55:58,800
only melanin and really a very dark red. Almost all

1155
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,159
of them go silvery gray with age. Some gibbons vary

1156
00:56:02,199 --> 00:56:04,719
in a most bewildering way. In coat colors. They may

1157
00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,320
be black, gray, chocolate, white, or beige to start with,

1158
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,000
and throughout life they may change from one color to another.

1159
00:56:10,599 --> 00:56:13,639
Different races of different species do all manner of different

1160
00:56:13,679 --> 00:56:16,760
things in this aspect. It is therefore quite consistent that

1161
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,800
these absms, these abottable snowmen, should start off with jet

1162
00:56:20,840 --> 00:56:23,599
black hair and light skin and end up whary, old

1163
00:56:23,639 --> 00:56:28,920
black faced creatures with silver tipped, reddish fur h class

1164
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:34,000
and then the final bit of rose account, he says quote,

1165
00:56:34,039 --> 00:56:36,679
I wanted to find out if it lived on vegetation entirely,

1166
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:38,519
or eight meat as well, So I went down and

1167
00:56:38,519 --> 00:56:41,159
looked for signs. I found it in five different places,

1168
00:56:41,199 --> 00:56:44,079
and although I examined it thoroughly, could find no hair

1169
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,719
or shells of bugs or insects, so I believe it

1170
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,679
was strictly a vegetarian. I found one place where it

1171
00:56:49,679 --> 00:56:52,360
had slept for a couple of knights under a tree. Now,

1172
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:54,440
the knights were cool up the mountain at this time

1173
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:57,320
of year especially, and yet it had not used a fire.

1174
00:56:57,679 --> 00:57:00,000
I found no sign that it possessed even the simple

1175
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:03,239
list of tools, nor a single companion while in this place.

1176
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,239
Whether this was a Sasquatch, I do not know. It

1177
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,719
will always remain a mystery to me unless another one

1178
00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:09,199
is found.

1179
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 2: Well, you know what I love about that, this this

1180
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:15,159
little section he just read is, of course it exemplifies

1181
00:57:15,159 --> 00:57:18,360
the scientific process. You know, he just had a face

1182
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,199
to face, he had incoming data like, oh my god,

1183
00:57:21,199 --> 00:57:24,239
what is this? And he has then immediately obviously, I

1184
00:57:24,239 --> 00:57:26,480
think for most anybody you would have some questions about

1185
00:57:26,519 --> 00:57:29,360
what you just saw. And the first question that he

1186
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,679
wanted to find out was I wanted to if it

1187
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,559
was a vegetarian or not. So he asked a question,

1188
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:36,719
And what did he do. He set up an experiment.

1189
00:57:36,719 --> 00:57:38,719
I'm going to go look to see if I can

1190
00:57:38,719 --> 00:57:41,639
find signs of things at eight And apparently he found

1191
00:57:41,679 --> 00:57:44,280
those things in five different locations. And he says he

1192
00:57:44,280 --> 00:57:47,360
couldn't find hair, or bugs or insects, or shells of

1193
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:49,719
bugs or insects or so so he thought it was

1194
00:57:49,719 --> 00:57:54,599
strictly vegetarian. That was his hypothesis. Now further data coming in.

1195
00:57:54,639 --> 00:57:56,280
If he saw it eating meat, I would change it

1196
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,280
to be an omnivore, of course, because he did see

1197
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,079
it eat plants. And if he you saw it ate

1198
00:58:01,239 --> 00:58:03,480
meat or found evidence of that, dude have to come

1199
00:58:03,519 --> 00:58:05,559
to the conclusion as an omnivore, which we believe is

1200
00:58:05,559 --> 00:58:08,000
the case today. But I would like to point out

1201
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:11,239
that if it was eating bugs or anything like that,

1202
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:13,559
I don't think it would peel them and suck out

1203
00:58:13,559 --> 00:58:15,559
the gooey middle part. I think it would probably eat

1204
00:58:15,599 --> 00:58:19,800
the carapas as well. The exoskeleton. Yeah, that's probably very

1205
00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,239
very rich in calciums, I would guess. I don't know that,

1206
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:23,039
but I would guess that.

1207
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:24,199
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1208
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:26,960
Speaker 2: And then the hair. I mean I find scat mountain

1209
00:58:27,000 --> 00:58:29,199
lion scat all the time with hair in it. So

1210
00:58:29,559 --> 00:58:31,360
I'm not sure that you would find any evidence of

1211
00:58:31,400 --> 00:58:34,079
that really either if it was eaten you know, rats

1212
00:58:34,079 --> 00:58:35,159
and stuff like I think they do.

1213
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:36,119
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1214
00:58:36,239 --> 00:58:40,239
Speaker 4: I have a big impact on the sasquash research community

1215
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,320
for a long time because people put so much stock

1216
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,639
into William Rose citing that a lot of people assume

1217
00:58:46,679 --> 00:58:48,199
dos vegetarian for a long time.

1218
00:58:49,079 --> 00:58:51,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, because all the other ape species are thought to

1219
00:58:51,199 --> 00:58:54,159
be largely vegetarian. Of course, we know that bugs are

1220
00:58:54,159 --> 00:58:57,119
eaten by rang and tans and chimpanzees you know, actually

1221
00:58:57,199 --> 00:58:59,119
hunt flesh and whatever else. We know that now, but

1222
00:58:59,159 --> 00:59:01,639
we didn't then we didn't. Then they were just thought

1223
00:59:01,639 --> 00:59:04,719
to be purely vegetarian. So why wouldn't another ape species

1224
00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:07,599
in north like even it's a different continent have the

1225
00:59:07,599 --> 00:59:09,960
same habits. But then that just shows you, I think,

1226
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,280
more than anything, of the inflexibility of human behavior or

1227
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:18,239
human thought and not animal behavior. Yeah, I think it's

1228
00:59:18,239 --> 00:59:20,199
interesting that he found where it slept a couple of

1229
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,320
nights under a tree. I wish we had more information about.

1230
00:59:23,039 --> 00:59:27,239
Speaker 5: That, Yeah, like what did you do anything to prepare

1231
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:29,840
the ground it or was it just you know, smash

1232
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,119
down grass, like build any kind of nests or put

1233
00:59:33,119 --> 00:59:35,960
any kind of pine doughs down or what what have you.

1234
00:59:36,559 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have to take his word that it was

1235
00:59:38,039 --> 00:59:41,079
even it, you know, because bears, how would you differentiate

1236
00:59:41,079 --> 00:59:44,360
a bear nightly bed from a sasquatches? You know, I

1237
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,239
mean we have to take his word that maybe tracks

1238
00:59:46,239 --> 00:59:48,079
were there or something. But we just don't know. We

1239
00:59:48,159 --> 00:59:49,679
just don't know. We don't have any information on it.

1240
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll never know.

1241
00:59:52,719 --> 00:59:56,039
Speaker 2: This is definitely one of my favorite early sighting reports.

1242
00:59:56,079 --> 00:59:57,960
You know, I consider this one one of the classics.

1243
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,039
I don't know if it's labeled as a or not anywhere,

1244
01:00:01,039 --> 01:00:02,920
but I think it's one of the classics because there's

1245
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,679
so much in it. There's so much to unpack from it,

1246
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,320
subtle observations that actually literally predicted future finds, which I

1247
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:14,079
think is very strong evidence of it being real. It

1248
01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:17,039
is before the Big Sasquatch Hoople of stuff from nineteen

1249
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:19,519
fifty eight, where the word bigfoot was kind of born,

1250
01:00:19,639 --> 01:00:22,440
although there was some usage of it before that, but

1251
01:00:22,519 --> 01:00:25,079
it really became a prominent in American culture at least

1252
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:26,679
in fifty eight. I know this is up in Canada,

1253
01:00:26,719 --> 01:00:29,760
so the Sasquatch stories had been circling for a few

1254
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:34,159
decades at this point, but again it largely people thought

1255
01:00:34,159 --> 01:00:37,280
that they were just native people. You know that the

1256
01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:39,239
way that they were written about at the time by J. W.

1257
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:41,639
Burns and those sort of folks indicated that they were

1258
01:00:41,639 --> 01:00:44,880
probably just like a wild native person or a tribe

1259
01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:46,840
of them up in the Mountains. So to me, this

1260
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,559
is one of the most telling and interesting and important

1261
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:54,880
earlier observations from that early time of sasquatch research that

1262
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:57,280
I find so interesting and historically significant.

1263
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,119
Speaker 1: It is definitely a classic made a huge impact on

1264
01:01:01,199 --> 01:01:05,119
a lot of people. I think it was Sanderson's reporting

1265
01:01:05,199 --> 01:01:07,719
of that case in one of the men's magazines of

1266
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,320
the day that first inspired Roger Patterson to get involved

1267
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,239
and then obviously led to a lot of the speculation

1268
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:18,760
that Patterson modeled the Patterson Gillin film as an attempt

1269
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:23,199
to replicate what William Rowe described, so there's no shortage

1270
01:01:23,239 --> 01:01:27,039
of controversy there, but either way, it definitely inspired the

1271
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:32,519
early investigators that day, especially Patterson. Yeah, another case that

1272
01:01:32,679 --> 01:01:35,239
was brought to light around that same time that a

1273
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,400
lot of people have asked questions about over the years.

1274
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:38,840
I know we've touched on before, but I think it

1275
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:40,719
would be fun to do a deep dive on is

1276
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:44,960
the infamous Albert Ausman case, at least the observational portions

1277
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:47,000
of it, the things he said. I was digging up

1278
01:01:47,039 --> 01:01:49,760
some older quotes and things I'd sort of forgotten about it,

1279
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:51,960
some deep dives that Sanderson had done when he was

1280
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:57,119
with him the claims of Darris Swindler after having interviewed him, etc.

1281
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,559
So maybe that would be fun for pigeons. There was

1282
01:01:59,599 --> 01:02:02,159
a pigeon question about that recently too, so it'll be

1283
01:02:02,199 --> 01:02:03,960
good for those folks, all right.

1284
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 2: Oh and of course, I you know, earlier in the

1285
01:02:06,679 --> 01:02:08,679
this very episode, we were talking about some of the

1286
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:12,320
big footing adventures I've had with handprints and footprints and

1287
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,840
all that sort of stuff. I did text both of

1288
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,119
you pictures of that, so Matt, feel free to go

1289
01:02:17,159 --> 01:02:19,679
and post those for the pigeons if you're interested. Maybe

1290
01:02:19,719 --> 01:02:22,079
they'd be interested in seeing those things. And we do

1291
01:02:22,119 --> 01:02:24,199
have a membership if anybody wants to join. It's five

1292
01:02:24,239 --> 01:02:26,800
bucks a month. And what you get besides pictures of

1293
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,679
footprints and handprints in the ground and things that we

1294
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:33,159
find are interesting in the variety of articles and stuff

1295
01:02:33,159 --> 01:02:35,320
that Matt Pruit is digging up, but where you also

1296
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:39,760
get this episode completely ad free, and another entire hour

1297
01:02:40,559 --> 01:02:44,280
episode completely ad free. So maybe you want to be

1298
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,360
a member. I don't know a lot of people seem

1299
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,840
to be, so join us. All the cool people are yeah,

1300
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:51,760
And one final thing before we sign off, by the way,

1301
01:02:51,800 --> 01:02:53,679
don't forget we do a Bigfoot and Beyond t shirts

1302
01:02:53,679 --> 01:02:55,280
out there. If you're interested in wearing one of those

1303
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,199
and looking exceptionally cool and slender, you can get those

1304
01:02:58,239 --> 01:02:59,840
at sasquatchprints dot com.

1305
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:02,679
Speaker 4: He's got some cool cool not just stars, he has

1306
01:03:02,719 --> 01:03:05,199
all kinds of cool Bigfoot designs on that the get

1307
01:03:05,199 --> 01:03:08,440
the Bigfoot and Beyond one for sure. But yeah, well,

1308
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:10,599
all right, focus us another week. A big flip y'all

1309
01:03:10,599 --> 01:03:14,159
at Clifton Bubba and prough It chiming in this week too, bonus.

1310
01:03:14,719 --> 01:03:17,639
So thanks again for tuning in. Hit like hitch share,

1311
01:03:17,719 --> 01:03:20,559
give us a good review. We appreciate it, and yeah,

1312
01:03:20,559 --> 01:03:22,639
we're going to go to our Patreon group now and

1313
01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,519
do another deep dive until next week, y'all.

1314
01:03:25,639 --> 01:03:30,719
Speaker 3: Keep it squatchy.

1315
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:35,159
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.

1316
01:03:35,519 --> 01:03:37,800
If you liked what you heard, please rate and review

1317
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:41,199
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1318
01:03:41,199 --> 01:03:44,480
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1319
01:03:44,480 --> 01:03:48,039
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1320
01:03:48,079 --> 01:03:51,760
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1321
01:03:52,159 --> 01:03:55,199
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1322
01:03:55,400 --> 01:04:07,960
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