WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.960 Oh he is books. It's showtime. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:10.599 People say, good money to see this movie. 3 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.519 When they go out to a theater, they want clothed sodas, 4 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.199 hot popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth. 5 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.199 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:44.399 Un it off. Sometimes in life you hit a turning point. Really, oh, 7 00:00:44.439 --> 00:00:45.799 you gotta be more careful girl. 8 00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:51.439 And that was it for me. How long have you 9 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:56.240 worked there? Just shy of twenty years. 10 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:01.600 I don't understand why you stayed at first. 11 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:06.400 It was just shenanigans. I've got a schoolboy nonsense. Really, 12 00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:06.879 if you. 13 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:12.599 Can find me some habitants, I need substantiation to build 14 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:16.120 you a case. Well, here we go. 15 00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:22.159 You sure you're up for this? What time you will leave? Now? 16 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:26.000 Your income, if you include overtime, it is half of 17 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:28.040 what the men are making. She was bossy. 18 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:29.480 I thought she was better than everybody else. 19 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:30.799 John wants me to smile. 20 00:01:31.239 --> 00:01:32.319 Don't you dare smile? 21 00:01:32.840 --> 00:01:35.200 These are powerful groups. We knew that they could go 22 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:35.920 either way. 23 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:38.519 You think they should get away with how they treated me? 24 00:01:38.840 --> 00:01:42.120 No, the partners and I would like to take this 25 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:43.439 to the Supreme Court. 26 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:48.439 That company took advantage of me like so many companies 27 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:52.239 are taking advantage of their workers. She wins. Women all 28 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:53.959 over the country are going to use this as an 29 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:56.760 excuse to sue. I'm so damn proud of you. 30 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:57.040 Bet. 31 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.000 Miss Ledbetter was consigned to a career as a second 32 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:02.239 class employee only because she is a woman. 33 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:05.959 That cannot be the law and it Isn't you knew 34 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:08.080 you were being paid less than your male counterparts. 35 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:11.199 You waited to retire before sue? You really believe I 36 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:12.960 chose to work twenty years know when I was being 37 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:16.000 cheated and discriminated against, just so I could wait to sue. 38 00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:18.719 Does that make any sense? Going on one of them? 39 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:21.240 And you never will be. You're a country girl who 40 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:25.439 grew up Swimen and Doc Brewster's fat, right, so I 41 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:26.879 know how to burn off a leech. 42 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:37.120 Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of the Projection Booth. 43 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:39.800 I'm your host Mike White. On this episode, I'm talking 44 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:43.520 with Rachel Feldman. She is the director and co writer 45 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:46.319 of the new film Lily. It is all about activist 46 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:50.759 Lily Ledbetter, starring Patricia Clarkson. Fantastic film, really eye opening, 47 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:53.080 and I had a great time talking with miss Feldman 48 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:56.080 to find out more about her. Visit Rachel Feldman dot com. 49 00:02:56.280 --> 00:02:58.840 Check your local listings for Lily and I hope you 50 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:01.400 enjoy the interview. Do you might tell me a little 51 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:03.400 bit about how you got involved in filmmaking. 52 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:06.759 I'm one of these people just always known what I 53 00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:09.080 wanted to do, even though I didn't know exactly what 54 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:10.639 it was that I wanted to do. I was a 55 00:03:10.759 --> 00:03:14.199 kid with a very big imagination. I was always drawing, 56 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:16.639 I was always in make believe. You know, I come 57 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:19.840 from a dysfunctional home. I'm sure that my imagination was 58 00:03:19.879 --> 00:03:23.800 a very good company for me during difficult times. I 59 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:27.080 loved playing with dolls. I could turn any inanimate object 60 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:31.159 into a character. I just had that ability. I could 61 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:33.759 go into a playground as a child and immediately envision 62 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:37.240 the house and the geography of the set. And then 63 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:39.199 I was a child actor. I started working when I 64 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:41.719 was five. I was a model for a little while. 65 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:43.919 I didn't really like modeling, and then I started doing 66 00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.520 television commercials. And by the time I was twelve, I 67 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:50.960 think I had done over three hundred commercials, and I 68 00:03:51.159 --> 00:03:53.680 was an on camera accist for many years, and I 69 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:56.840 liked it. I liked working. I lived, I lived in 70 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:59.080 the Bronx near Manhattan, so it was an easy schlep. 71 00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:02.319 Loved it. She was backstage mom and we had a 72 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:06.560 great time going together. She was frustrated singer herself, so 73 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:10.120 it was fun for her. And I just loved being 74 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:12.840 on set. I loved hitting my mark and finding my 75 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:15.560 key light and knowing my lines. And I loved that 76 00:04:15.639 --> 00:04:18.279 they all thought that I was I don't know that 77 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:22.360 I was a very good actor, but I was competent, 78 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:25.480 and for a child actor, that's a beautiful thing. I 79 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:29.199 think we're two a lot of child actors. So from there, 80 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:32.120 I became a voiceover actor. I no longer wanted to 81 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:35.240 be on camera when I was like twelve thirteen, adolescens 82 00:04:35.319 --> 00:04:37.480 hit and I just don't look at me. But I 83 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:41.279 loved performing, and I loved making goofy voices. I've always 84 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:45.040 made goofy voices. I sang, I did jingles, and so 85 00:04:45.079 --> 00:04:48.720 I became Lucy and Peanuts and I became the girl 86 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:52.839 in the Tricks Rabbit commercials, and I just do a 87 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:55.360 lot of voices for other children. I would then Adr 88 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:58.120 and Loup. I was good at looping and by being 89 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:00.680 in the studio, like with you with heads phones behind 90 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:04.360 the glass and communicate with technicians. I developed a sense 91 00:05:04.399 --> 00:05:07.759 of myself very early in my life as a technician. 92 00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.720 And during those years of my teens and twenties, I 93 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:16.519 was drawing, I was painting, I was sculpting, I was acting, 94 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:19.800 I was dancing, shooting, I was doing photography, and I 95 00:05:19.839 --> 00:05:22.959 was also writing stories. And so it didn't really coalesce 96 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:26.079 for me that, oh, I want to be a filmmaker. 97 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:29.079 But it was all there all along. And then when 98 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:33.360 I graduated from college, never thought about being a director, 99 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:35.240 even though I've been on a set my entire life, 100 00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.879 because I've never seen a woman director. And I read 101 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:41.040 an article in the New York Times about Anyes Varda 102 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:45.519 and Lina Vertmuller and all of these international European women, 103 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:49.720 who of course had decades in experience because their government 104 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:56.040 supported the arts. And I thought, Oh, a director, that's 105 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:58.000 what I want to be. And so I applied to 106 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:01.879 NYU Graduate Film School and I got a master's and 107 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:04.439 I made a bunch of short films that started winning awards. 108 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:08.399 But I didn't understand gender discrimination at the time, and 109 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:10.279 so it took fifteen years for me to get my 110 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:10.800 first job. 111 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:13.120 Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you as 112 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:16.000 far as the gender discrimination and just what the industry 113 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:18.160 was like for you at that time, coming up and 114 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:20.959 trying to be a female director in the industry that 115 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:23.079 at that time was predominantly male. 116 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:27.439 The statistics will prove that in those years, less than 117 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:30.639 one percent of the top two hundred and fifty films 118 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:34.800 and television shows were directed by women. So now I 119 00:06:34.839 --> 00:06:38.199 think in feature films where somewhere between eight and nine percent, 120 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:40.839 we'd have to find the statistics at the moment, and 121 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:44.240 in television we're better. We're at like thirty percent. Within 122 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:47.160 the course of my own lifetime, I've seen tremendous change. 123 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:49.399 I don't rough one to eight is tremendous change, but 124 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:53.199 in television, where there were mandates for the studios, that's 125 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:55.639 tremendous change. It was rough, It was really rough. No 126 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.160 one in film school ever mentioned the word gender discrimination. 127 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:01.680 It never occur to me, Never could any of us 128 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:03.839 and the class at that time with the past fifty 129 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:08.600 percent female, So no one really explained that diverse filmmakers 130 00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:10.800 were going to have a hard time. And it really 131 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:13.240 didn't hit us, and I say us, me and the 132 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:15.680 other women until we were in the workplace. We were 133 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:18.639 trying to be in the workplace, and we saw the 134 00:07:18.720 --> 00:07:21.199 guys who hadn't even come to class, the guys who'd 135 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:24.920 never finished their films, the guys who were nasty start 136 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:27.480 to have major careers, and none of us could get 137 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.879 it going. So it finally it dawned on us that 138 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:33.720 maybe it wasn't a personal problem, maybe it was a 139 00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:37.000 global problem. And that's really when I became an activist. 140 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:40.680 Would there any particular incidents or things that happened that 141 00:07:40.839 --> 00:07:44.879 helped move that needle and helped up that percentage, that 142 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:48.000 small little bit it managed to move up over the years. 143 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:51.600 Well before me, the women of the generation right before 144 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:55.319 me actually had lawsuit and that did change things in 145 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:57.720 Hollywood for a little while, and then it slid back, 146 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:02.199 but really not a hill. Times Up Me Too. I 147 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:05.199 was co chair of the Women's Steering Committee of the 148 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:08.839 Director's Guild of America where I personally tried to activate 149 00:08:08.959 --> 00:08:12.920 my guilt. And this is in twenty twelve, in twenty thirteen, 150 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:15.959 so bring me too and times up, and the Guild 151 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:20.319 didn't believe there was a problem. It's very recent and 152 00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:23.839 it really was times up in me too, when everybody 153 00:08:23.959 --> 00:08:28.480 was compelled, forced to acknowledge that we were not making 154 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:31.959 things up, and things did change. Now we're in a 155 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:34.519 very different time. I don't know what's going to happen now. 156 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:39.519 But how did you hear about Lily led Better and 157 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:41.120 decide to make this movie about her? 158 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:44.080 So I'm a little embarrassed to say that until I 159 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:47.279 saw her speak on television at the Democratic National Convention. 160 00:08:47.480 --> 00:08:50.279 Like everybody else, I didn't know who Lily was. I 161 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:54.080 should have, but I didn't. And I saw her, and 162 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:59.720 I swear like I had a physiological response. I got goosebumps, 163 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:01.960 the hair on my body stood up. I grabbed my 164 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:05.559 husband's shoulder. And I'm not a story person because I'm 165 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:07.679 also a screenwriter, ashi as a director, I'm not usually 166 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:11.240 attracted to biopics. I liked them. I love seeing them. 167 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:14.120 I like thrillers, I like crazy characters. I like dark 168 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:18.639 psychological material. But of course I love Aaron Rokovich, and 169 00:09:18.679 --> 00:09:20.960 I loved Burma Ray and I loved How Green was 170 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:23.840 My Valley in the movie of my Mother's Generations. That 171 00:09:23.919 --> 00:09:28.000 were those social justice north Stars, And I said, this 172 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.960 is it. This is a great story. And I don't 173 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.039 remember how I got it but I got her phone 174 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:36.159 number the very next day and I reached after her 175 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:37.399 and I spoke to her, and she said, I have 176 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:39.360 a lot of people traducing me. A lot of people 177 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:41.480 are interested in my story. You have to talk to 178 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:44.720 my lawyer. Okay, who's your lawyer? Her lawyer was John 179 00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:48.120 Goldbarb And so I called John, who you met in movie? 180 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:51.440 And I've called John whit just hit it off. And 181 00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:53.840 the thing about John is not only is he a 182 00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:56.840 brilliant civil rights attorney, but he had gone to film school. 183 00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.879 And so while there were studios and exact excutives and 184 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:04.000 producers who are chasing the rights to her story, there 185 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:08.080 were no other filmmakers. And he was an editor, and 186 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:12.320 he just liked to talk about making film. And I 187 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:14.200 don't know whether it was because he's a Jewish kid 188 00:10:14.200 --> 00:10:16.840 from Birmingham, Alabama, and I'm a Jewish kid from the Bronx. 189 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:21.360 We just immediately had a common language. And he said, look, 190 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:25.720 Lily and Lanier I are in the process of writing 191 00:10:25.720 --> 00:10:28.399 a beautiful memoir right now, and they have high hopes 192 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:30.799 for the book. They're not going to option to anybody 193 00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:33.000 right now. Let them finish the book. Let us get 194 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:35.159 the book out into the marketplace and come back in 195 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:37.360 two or three years. So I came back three years 196 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:39.679 later and it was the same thing. People were chasing 197 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.120 the rights. The book is gorgeous and it made me 198 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.600 want to make the movie even more because Lanier really 199 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:51.879 delved into Lily's childhood. That gave the backstory to understand 200 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:57.759 what made this woman tick. And it just came alive 201 00:10:57.799 --> 00:10:59.919 from me and I really wanted it. And I said, 202 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:02.399 John or Lily, look, I don't have the cloud, I 203 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:04.480 don't have the power, I don't have the agents, I 204 00:11:04.519 --> 00:11:08.240 don't have the money, but I have the willpower and 205 00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:12.039 I have the determination. Please and Lily just I think 206 00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:14.960 saw a little bit of herself in me. And she 207 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:17.279 warned me, she's a raightchel this is going to take 208 00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:20.960 a long time. This has got It took me ten years, 209 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:23.559 He's going to take you ten years. And it did. 210 00:11:23.679 --> 00:11:28.159 She was right. It's great. Working with her was a 211 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:30.559 wonderful experience. She was a remarkable woman. 212 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:33.879 How do you even approach the story? How do you say, Okay, 213 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:35.480 this is where we're going to start, this is where 214 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:37.240 we're gonna be in the middle, and this is how 215 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:40.600 we finish this story. Up because obviously the story continues, 216 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.960 but you have to pick that point in time, which 217 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.279 you picked the most perfect one. 218 00:11:45.320 --> 00:11:49.039 I think, thank you. Look in a memoir, you can 219 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:51.799 do a cradle to graves. Even though she was still lying. 220 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:54.440 She wrote the book a breakdown of seventy five years. 221 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:55.919 But in a movie, you have an hour and a 222 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:58.759 half two hours to tell a storage. So we chose 223 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:02.799 the ten years from the point at which she discovered 224 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:05.279 the note to the point at which the law was signed, 225 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:07.559 which was about a ten year pocket. And yes, I 226 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:11.000 feathered in some backstory. I wanted a feather in a 227 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:12.960 lot more, but we didn't have the time and money 228 00:12:12.960 --> 00:12:16.519 to do that. So I looked for a co writer 229 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:19.840 in the beginning because I was intimidated. Quite honestly, I'm 230 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:22.159 a person with a big imagination, and this is a 231 00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:26.519 true story, and I'd never written a true story before, 232 00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:29.720 and I really wanted to. I had to adhere to 233 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.279 what year did it happen in, how old was she? 234 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.960 What were the details of the law the transcript? These 235 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:39.679 are kinds of details that I'm really not that interested in. 236 00:12:40.120 --> 00:12:42.240 What is the basis of the law, How does the 237 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:45.840 law read? I'm a fiction person, I'm not a nonfiction person. 238 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:49.440 My co writer, Adam Prince, and I really broke the 239 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:54.759 story down and structured, knowing the architecture of a screenplay 240 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:57.840 that we needed our first act, we needed act to A, 241 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:00.519 act to B and then our third act. How was 242 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:03.600 this ten year period going a breakdown into that? And 243 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:07.600 like any screenwriter, once you hone in on what that 244 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:13.759 story is and there are so many just organic ups 245 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:17.039 and downs in her life that laid out so perfectly 246 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:20.759 into screenplay for so I was lucky about that. 247 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:23.399 Tell me a little bit more about Adam Prince, your 248 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:24.399 co screenwriter. 249 00:13:25.279 --> 00:13:30.360 Adam lives on my street and was running. We have 250 00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:33.279 a park two blocks away, pant Pacific Park, and he 251 00:13:33.320 --> 00:13:35.720 would run with his dog every morning when I did 252 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:38.159 by power walk for many years and we would just 253 00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:41.039 circle one another, Hey, hey, hey, you know. And then 254 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:43.840 one day he ran next to me huffing and puffing, 255 00:13:43.879 --> 00:13:46.559 and turned out that he had gone to USC School 256 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:49.399 of Cinematic Arts and gotten his MFA there when I 257 00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:52.639 was currently teaching directing there at the same time. And 258 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:54.200 he asked me if I would read a couple of 259 00:13:54.240 --> 00:13:56.039 his scripts. And I read a couple of his scripts, 260 00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:58.200 and I thought, Wow, this guy's a really good writer. 261 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:02.440 Now he was writing graphic like graphic novels and animation 262 00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:06.840 and action thrillers. Not at all in my vein. But 263 00:14:06.919 --> 00:14:11.440 I'm really the kind of person that rebels against niche casting. 264 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:13.320 I don't like when I go into a job and 265 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:15.200 they said to me, oh, you've only darn drama and 266 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:18.279 we have a comedy. Like I'm a director, I can 267 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:21.200 put on any apps, and so I didn't want to 268 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:24.519 Nicheifi him and he had a big brain. He'd gone 269 00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:27.039 to Yale. He was good with facts and figures, and 270 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:28.679 I said, look, you want to help me break this 271 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:31.919 story down? And he said sure. Actually first he said no, 272 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:33.960 and then he came back the next day and we 273 00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:35.720 were doing loops again. He said, my wife said I 274 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:40.200 should say yes. So that's how that happened. 275 00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:43.039 And then, of course the casting for this movie is 276 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:46.879 just critical, especially Lily herself. Can you tell me about 277 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:48.159 the casting process for this. 278 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.120 I'm the luckiest filmmaker in the world for Patricia Clarkson too. 279 00:14:52.159 --> 00:14:56.480 I said yes to a filmmaker that was known as 280 00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:01.519 a television director. As your readers probably know, in our industry, 281 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:05.759 we're very nicheified. And it's not like I'm a famous 282 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:09.960 pilot director. I'm a journey woman television director, and so 283 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:13.480 this is my first feature And even though I've directed 284 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:16.879 seventy five hours of television and several television movies, as 285 00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:19.840 a feature film, it's my first feature of film. And 286 00:15:20.320 --> 00:15:23.679 for her agents at CAAA to first of all just 287 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:25.720 vet the screenplay and give it to her is a 288 00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:30.559 testament to them. And that's Chris Andrews and Kevin Huvain 289 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:34.559 who did me a tremendous favor, and I'm grateful to 290 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:37.879 them they gave it to Patty, and so grateful to Patty, 291 00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.000 who's the kind of filmmaker who has worked with first 292 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:44.120 time directors throughout her career. If she likes the material 293 00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:48.639 and she likes you, she doesn't need that celebrity polish 294 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:52.159 that a lot of other actors need to feel comfortable 295 00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.440 saying yes. So it was remarkable that she said yes. 296 00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:00.799 She of course knew who Lily ledbetter was she herself 297 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:05.039 comes through a political family. Her mother, Jackie Clarkson, was 298 00:16:05.080 --> 00:16:09.200 a prominent councilwoman in New Orleans who worked for women 299 00:16:09.399 --> 00:16:12.720 and families for most of her career. Patty's one of 300 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:16.159 five girls, and so they grew up in this strong 301 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:21.159 feminist household, and so she wanted to play Lily Ledbetter 302 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:24.960 and she says to this day that it's her proudest 303 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:28.879 moment as an actor to play Lily Ledbetter. So working 304 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:32.320 with her was a joy. She's a dream and just 305 00:16:32.480 --> 00:16:33.320 couldn't be happier. 306 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:37.080 The thing that with me was that this is so 307 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:40.919 modern and that you're dealing with these problems in the 308 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:44.320 early two thousands, when I was under the impression that 309 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:48.080 this was a thing, We're long past. This just the 310 00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:50.440 presentation that you give of all of these kind of 311 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:53.600 like shady back room deals and all of the guys 312 00:16:53.600 --> 00:16:57.679 who were having these conversations behind closed doors. I imagine 313 00:16:57.679 --> 00:16:59.639 that all that is still going on to day, if 314 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:00.919 not worse now than ever. 315 00:17:01.879 --> 00:17:05.039 You know, fair pay is a problem. Today women only 316 00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:08.440 make seventy eight cents and even worse for women of color. 317 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.880 So it's an ongoing issue. It probably won't be solved 318 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.960 for another fifty years, if ever. And the message that 319 00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:20.480 Lily wanted to give was to young women that they 320 00:17:20.519 --> 00:17:23.119 really need to think about these things from the very beginning, 321 00:17:23.160 --> 00:17:26.559 from their first job, because often when we're young women 322 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.240 we're young people. We get that first job, and we're 323 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:32.440 just so grateful to have the job. We're willing to 324 00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:35.200 take less. We're willing to look away, we're willing to 325 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:39.319 not ask all the questions. And asking the questions is 326 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:44.519 really part of educating yourself to stand up for yourself, 327 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:46.319 because you need to know what other people are earning. 328 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.400 And now you can know. In the days when Lily 329 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:52.599 was working, you were not allowed to ask, but now 330 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:55.640 the laws have changed. You can't be fired for asking. 331 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.039 And so it's really important that young women negotiate for 332 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:03.480 themselves very well at the very beginning, as she says, 333 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:05.599 that's going to affect your four oh one K and 334 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:09.680 your social security long after you're thinking about this at 335 00:18:09.720 --> 00:18:10.400 your first job. 336 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.759 How great is it for you as a filmmaker to 337 00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:17.400 have Ruth Vader Ginberg almost narrating your story for you. 338 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:21.160 I have to say archival footage was not in my 339 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:25.480 original plan, certainly was not in my screenplay, and it 340 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:29.279 was my editor's idea when we started cutting the film. 341 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:31.680 Toward the end of the film, when Congress is making 342 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:34.960 the vote, we needed that urgency, that sense of time, 343 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:36.799 are we getting the vote? I hadn't bake that into 344 00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:39.640 the screenplay. So we thought, okay, let's get archival footage. 345 00:18:39.799 --> 00:18:44.160 We'll actually see the tally being accounted for and that'll 346 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.440 give us some urgency. And then we put in the 347 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:49.000 piece of Kennedy and the piece of Reolkowski and the 348 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:54.359 piece of Clinton and Obama. So we had that at 349 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:58.839 the very end, and then the editor suggested that we 350 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:01.640 add some of this beta Ginsburg footage. At first I said, no, 351 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:06.119 absolutely not. I'm not a documentarian. I'm a fiction person. 352 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:09.200 I'm a drama person. I really thought it would hurt 353 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:11.880 the film, I said, but truck it. Let's see, And 354 00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.640 she and her assistant were fantastic and found these pieces 355 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:18.640 and laid demand and I saw them, and I changed 356 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:21.000 my mind. I thought it was undeniable to have this 357 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:25.160 juxtaposition of a woman that we respect more than anyone 358 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:29.000 else in the country ever to be speaking about the 359 00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:32.880 very thing that just happened. And yeah, I think it's 360 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.839 very additive. And the audience just seemed to love it. 361 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:36.920 So I'm glad you did two. 362 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.039 Tell me about the audience reaction. I know this comes 363 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:44.240 out wide release May ninth, twenty twenty five, but where 364 00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:46.400 have you seen it? Where has it played before this? 365 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.079 It's so interesting because this is my first feature film. 366 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:52.599 As a television director, you have your four days with 367 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:54.960 your editor and the editors are fantastic, and you do 368 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:57.200 your cut and you leave and the next time you 369 00:19:57.240 --> 00:19:59.880 see it's on television, you go, oh, that looks so good. 370 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:02.440 I'm so proud of it. Or why did they take 371 00:20:02.480 --> 00:20:05.160 that shot out? Or we cut it that way, why 372 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:07.480 they cut it this way? Whatever. I designed the shot 373 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:09.119 to be the opening, and now they're using it the 374 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:13.519 closet whatever. Usually it's a joy because they're top professionals 375 00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:15.160 and they know their show and it turns out well. 376 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:19.079 But when it's your movie, you're in a dark room 377 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:21.400 for a really long time and nobody sees the film 378 00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.440 except the same couple of people, and you look at 379 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:25.200 it over and over and over again. You really don't 380 00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:27.759 know what you have until you show it. And we 381 00:20:27.799 --> 00:20:30.200 showed it to a couple of people points of confusion 382 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:33.839 and time periods. But our world premiere was at the 383 00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:37.440 Hampton's International Film Festival in October I think it was 384 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:41.599 October tenth. We were in a very large, beautiful cinema. 385 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:44.880 I think it was almost five hundred people. Patricia, like 386 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:47.960 most actors, doesn't like to watch the movie, so she 387 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:50.079 had gone out to dinner, and most of the producers 388 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.079 had gone out to dinner to be with the actors, 389 00:20:52.119 --> 00:20:54.200 and they couldn't believe that I didn't want to go 390 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.319 out to dinner with them. I'm like, are you this 391 00:20:57.440 --> 00:20:58.920 is the first time I'm going to get to see 392 00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:01.599 if the movie in an audio, and so five hundred people, 393 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:06.400 I'm not going out to dinner. So I sat in 394 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:10.079 the cinema and from the very beginning of the movie, 395 00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:15.119 people were laughing, people were crying, people were cheering, and 396 00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:18.519 at the end of the movie they all did up. 397 00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:22.119 And so at this point I leave the theater and 398 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:25.720 I'm backstage waiting to go on for the Q and A, 399 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:29.880 and the moderator comes back. She's also been in the cinema, 400 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:32.599 so she's excited like I am. And then Patty comes 401 00:21:32.599 --> 00:21:35.400