Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of the Chicks on the Right podcast.
Very excited today to have with us Shabas Kestenbaum. He's
a Jewish activist who filed a suit you may recall
against Harvard for not protecting Jewish students from discrimination from harassment,
and more recently, you might recognize him from having the
misfortune of being on the same panel as Carrie Praijon
Bowler at a roundtable for the Religious Freedom Commission. And
even though Chabas was a registered Democrat, he spoke at
the RNC in twenty twenty four and ended up endorsing
President Trump. And I know our audience has seen you
lots of your appearances on various news shows because we
have played those clips on our show, and you are
now host of The Brief, a show that is part
of the Praeger You Network, and we want to talk
to you today about that Religious Freedom Commission. But first,
because the timing is just right, what did you make
of Tucker's interview with my how could be? Oh?
Speaker 2: My gosh, where do I begin? First of all, let
me just say, as a young person, there are not
many times in my life where I would agree to
wake up at eight am. But they're not making choose yours.
So it's really a pleasure to be with you, guys.
I'm a longtime fan, so thank you for having me.
Tucker's interview with Mike Huckabee really exposes what Matt Walsh
if the Daily Wire often calls Israel derangement syndrome. So,
if you truly believe that the economic woes at the
United States faces, if you truly believe that the reason
we don't have universal health care, if you truly believe
it's because of a conflict in the Middle East, then
I'm sorry. You're not engaging in reality and you're not
engaging in domestic policy. And Tucker Carlson kind of proves that.
So a month ago he went on his Twitter to say,
who cares about Israel? If you're still talking about the
Middle East, get over it. We want to focus on America.
Yet almost every single episode of his show since has
been exclusively focused on Israel and Gaza. And he's not
even asking questions in good faith. He's asking questions in
order to posit a theory. So, according to Tucker Carlson, I,
as a Jewish American, need to be taking a DNA
test to prove my ancestry in two thousand years. I mean,
these are deranged theories that have been debunked generations ago.
But he's placating and acquiescing to the lowest common denominator
of our American political culture. And it shows for the
millionth time, I will state disagree with the State of Israel.
In fact, more than disagree, hate the State of Israel,
hate Jews. I don't recommend it, but do it. But
that should not in any way be used as a
deflection to ignore the real problems that we as Americans
face in our country that have nothing to do with
the State of Israel. And unfortunately, we've seen podcasters like
Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson Hens hijack, hijack the minds
of Americans, particularly my generation, young Americans, to say, the
reason your life is terrible, and the reason the economy
is awful, and the reason you're working three jobs is
because we're giving zero point zero zero three percent of
our federal budget to the State of Israel. It's just
divorced from reality.
Speaker 3: And it's working. I mean, it's unfortunately a lot of
that narrative is working because you see it I mean,
at least we live a lot on social media, Mak
and I do because of what we do for a living,
and so we see it permeate into social media. No,
you're very young but also brilliant, but we're old. And
so we've been around in this game for quite some time.
And so we've seen the Tuckers and the Canvases evolve,
and so, you know, it's we used to really devilvee yes,
I'm sorry, that's a better word.
Speaker 2: Devolve.
Speaker 3: So we've seen Tucker go from being this kind of
a guy, right, a certain kind of a guy, to
a completely different kind of a guy. And so I
think there are a lot of twenty somethings out there
that see Tucker today and they think, oh, he's always
been like this, you know, and he hasn't. So what
do you what do you think is happening to like
the Tuckers and the Canvases.
Speaker 2: Well, let me first, you know, validate the question because
it's such an important point. When Tucker was on Fox News,
he would spend episode after episode with guests like Josh Hammer,
who's a mutual friend of ours, talking about the evils
of Sharia law. Probably the supplanting of Islamism in the
United States, and then fast forward just a couple of
years later, he's buying a home and cutter. He believes
that as a Christian, he's never felt safer in Saudi Arabia,
where Christianity, of course is criminalized. So it's a total
one eighty. We do know for a fact that TCN,
the Tucker Carlson Network, has a lot of seed money
from individuals connected with the Saudi government as well as
the Katari government. So he's not engaging in good faith
and he should be honest about it. And this actually
brings us to the Religious Liberties Commission. So Carrie Bohler,
for example, when she talks about how Israel is an
ethno stated and it's based upon religious apartheid, leaving aside
the inaccuracy of those statements, well, if you truly believe
that that's the case. Number one is a Catholic, you
should absolutely be calling for the abolition of Vatican City.
But number two, have you ever heard of Saudi Arabia
where literally, as a Christian, you cannot practice your religion exactly.
I mean, it's just insanity. I feel like, to quote Zulander,
I feel like I'm on crazy pills here. I was
actually justin Israel a week ago, two weeks ago, and again,
hate Israel all you want, but I was there two
weeks ago and I went to the church at the
Holy Sepulcher, and I posted a video on my Instagram
and I had said, look, I'm obviously Jewish. My name
is job was castingbutt where the funny hat.
Speaker 4: But I was actually a.
Speaker 2: Little disappointed because when I was there's about ten in
the morning and there were maybe one hundred, maybe one
hundred and fifty Christian worshippers in the church. And I
went on my Instagram and I said, look, I hate
the state as much as you want disagree with the
orchestration of the war in Gaza. Christians owe it to
their religious identity to go to the church, a Holy Sepulcher,
to get baptized in the Jordan River, to go to
Capernaum and Nazareth and Bethlehem, like go to the places
where the founder of your religion, where your Messiah walked
and lived and breathed. And I can't, for the life
of me understand why people like Tucker Carlson who have
such a hatred, a hatred of the Jewish state have
allowed that to overpower their own Christianity. The fact that
you will go to Israel but not leave Bengredian Airport
to meet with Christians, whether they be Christian Palestinians or
Christians rableis you are?
Speaker 4: I know this.
Speaker 2: You were in Bengori Airport, less than a thirty five
minute drive from the Church of the Holy Sepulcher and
you wouldn't go. That to me is something I cannot understand.
Speaker 3: I can't either. I absolutely can't either.
Speaker 1: And it seems like two I mean. And this relates
to both the Tucker interview and also the Religious Freedom Commission.
We talked about this a little bit on our show
this morning about this, the confusion about the term Zionism.
That there is the sort of political, secular definition which
resonates more with us, frankly, which is simply that Israel
is a country. It is a sovereign country, and it's
people have the right to live in peace.
Speaker 4: That's it.
Speaker 1: But then there's everything that I call her a candy Catholic.
That's my new term for like brand new Catholics who
follow Candace Owens into the religion. There are candy Catholics
like Carrie who who talk about this whole biblical prophecy
angle that relates to her Catholicism, I guess, and she
completely denies that there can even be such a thing
as Christian Zionists.
Speaker 4: How do you look at that issue? Yeah, you know,
it's funny.
Speaker 2: I was asked to do a debate on a show
I won't mention which show last week on Christian Zionism,
when I basically told the producer, like, I don't.
Speaker 4: Really think I'm equipped to debate.
Speaker 2: You guys, debate it, let me know who wins, and
then I'm happy to talk to them, but it's not
really my fight. What I would say is, if you
are a newly minted Catholic and you just converted within
the last six months, and you are making the strong
assertion that you she said this explicitly speak on behalf
of all Catholics. I'm not entirely clear as to how
you mitigate or understand nostre atat. I'm not entirely sure
how you understand the fundamental agreement. I'm not entirely sure
how you understand the explicit words of Pope Benedict or
Pope Leo or Pope Francis visa VI the state of Israel.
So you can be opposed to Zionism, but to state
equivocally that as Catholics we are forbidden as a theological
mandate to support the State of Israel. I'm not saying
you're wrong, but you have to provide some evidence. And
as a non Catholic, obviously I've only seen evidence to
the contrary, but more fundamentally, and this is the point
I was making on the even if you don't support Zionism,
who the hell cares? Because I've went on the mission
to talk about the practical religious discrimination that American Jews
are facing on college campuses, that American Catholics were facing.
Not far from where I live in Long Beach, there
was an American Catholic school that was vandalized, that was
a target of a hate crime. And I mentioned this
to the commission and oddly enough, the commissioner, who was
so devoted to Catholicism, who is silenced for expressing her
Catholic viewpoints, she never once asked me any follow up
questions on the Catholic school that was a target of
a hate crime, like twenty minutes from where I lived.
She didn't ask me anything about it. The only question
she asked me was Israel, and I couldn't mention the
word Israel in my testimony. So if you don't like Zionism,
I don't care. It is a real that you were
feelings to the state of Israel when I take pains
to only talk about American Catholics, American Mormons, American Christians,
and American Jews. And if your response to the religious
discrimination that American citizens are facing in the United States
is to talk about Israel, then you are clearly intellectually
in equipped to be on President Trump's religiously British commission.
She was not silenced for being a Catholic. She was
silenced for being a moron.
Speaker 1: A hundred percent totally.
Speaker 4: Do you think it was a.
Speaker 1: Setup, Like there's a lot of shitter chatter about how
she was coordinating with some Muslim person or activist there.
That was, you know, pressing record yeah and telling her, Okay,
now's your moment. What was that all about?
Speaker 2: Unquestionably so, for the entirety of the hearing. She was
texting on her phone and I was on the stage,
so I was able to see this firsthand. She was
texting her advisor, and I'm blanking out on her name,
but she is this young Palestinian Muslim activist. They were
texting each other the entire time. The activist. Actually, again,
it's funny that I always get accused of dual loyalty
because the only people who were wearing flags of the
foreign entity was the commissioner carry and then her advisers
were wearing the flag of Palaestine. I was mild, so
she was wearing a flag of pals On as well
as a key to symbolize that we, as pales Jaians,
will return to a homeland that was never actually hours
after a war that we started in nineteen forty eight
and lost. Nevertheless, Israel has offered their own state that
they've rejected.
Speaker 4: But I digressed.
Speaker 2: Anyways, they were texting throughout the entirety of the time.
In fact, it's really interesting because again, if Carrie is
such a strong proponent of the Catholic fate and the
right of American Catholics, all of her questions were scripted.
She was literally reading off of a phone because she
did not have the intellectual capabilities of saying this.
Speaker 4: And in the beginning I.
Speaker 2: Was very respectful to her during the committee and also
the days afterwards. But the reason I'm now getting a
little more upset is because after my repeated respectful invitations
to debate, she herself said on the commission we would
be great friends. Let's grab coffee, and I said, great,
I would love to do that. After my repeated invitations
to debate, she finally responded to me two three days
ago by saying, and I quote, Christ is your king.
Oh if you are using your newly found religion as
a scapegoat to engage in intellectual discourse and exchange of ideas,
then I truly question your ability to comprehend big ideas
and complexities in our country. And I'm really upset because
I know many many Catholics. I have many Catholic friends,
and they too are upset by how people are hijacking
their faith to further their political ads.
Speaker 3: And oh, yeah, in that a lot what. I don't
think there's any question that she's a Palestinian activist, useful idiot.
I think we've I mean the fact that she even
wore that pin. We were all like, what are you
doing like that?
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty disgraceful if you're a Commissioner of
a federal commission, meaning a President Trump. Let's say President
I was in there. President Trump signed an executive order.
I was at the White House when he did it
establishing this Religious Liberties Commission. So this isn't downed by
the power of the federal government. And if you are
abusing the trust, not only the federal government but of
the president that you know we've supported and campaigned for,
you're abusing for us for your own political agenda and
your own political narrative. Have your own commission. Talk about
Candice Owans and Christus King and Nick Fund talk about
it as much as you want, but you don't have
the authority to hijack this particular commission, especially when there
are so many young Americans, young Catholics, young Mormons, young Christians,
young Jews, who need help, who need the resources and
the federal government, and you don't care about any of that.
You just care about presenting an idea that Candace Owans
isn't anti Semitic.
Speaker 4: Cool do yeah?
Speaker 3: And thankfully there are a lot of like we have
a lot of listeners and viewers that are very upset
that she has hijacked, you know, Catholicism that they both
have they're upset about it, but it's just it's not enough.
Because they're out there and they're praying around saying crisis King,
and she's such a horrible representation. It seems to be
really profitable for them. Yeah, it's been profitable for both
of them. It's been profitable for a lot of these
people who are just clearly anti Semitic.
Speaker 2: And by the way, sorry, if I could just quickly
enter inenerject, it's such a good point when people say
I'm being silenced. She has gained one hundred thousand followers
since her outbursts, So if Jews are silencing her, we're
doing a really bad job. Right. If you want to
make it in this industry, and by industry, I mean
the podcast first, the man os, fear, the twittersphere, whatever,
the easiest thing you can do, the best thing you
can do, the most profitable thing you can do is
talk about Jews, Zionism, Christ is your King, all of
the above, and you will become a star relatively quickly. Right.
I've it in the space for a out three years
or so. I could barely crack fifty thousand followers. It's
because I'm kind of boring and I talk about the West,
and I talk about capitalism, and I talk about democracy,
and no one's really interested in it because it's not
really click.
Speaker 4: It doesn't really rate. We are we have you on
our show.
Speaker 2: It doesn't generate, it doesn't generate as much as much outrage.
But if you talk about how there's a Zionis supremacist
plot to take over the United States, which is something
she has actually said, then you'll you'll get a lot of.
Speaker 3: And listen, we get that. We totally get it because
we've seen that happen with so many people where they
just it's a grift, It's an absolute grift, and they
get so much popularity and they're making so much money
off of something so disgusting, and.
Speaker 4: It's it's like, what do you do?
Speaker 3: But people are buying into it, and I just I
don't know. Do you think that we're going to become
like the UK? Do you think we're gonna like do
you see that?
Speaker 2: As someone who has family living in the UK, I
certainly hope not. I think the UK it's a failed
state in the same way Canada is a failed state.
The reason I'm saying know is because unlike the United Kingdom,
one of the things that is holding up our democracy
is we do have the First Amendment, and we do
have the free speech. We do have free speech, which
again it really frustrates me that American Jews are always
accused of stifling free speech or the First Amendment, when
the greatest threat to free speech in the First Amendment
on American institutions of higher learning, for example, are Palaestadians.
It's not even a question. The only group college campuses
who have thrown rocks through buildings, who have who have
canceled classes, who have disrupted classrooms to talk about an
into fauda, who have dis invited lecturers and guest speakers.
The only ones who have done that are far leftist
groups attached to the pro Palestinian cause. I cannot point
to a single either pro Israel or American Jewish institution
or group on an American college campuses. American college campus
that have I don't know, blockaded the library, that have
vandalized the Muslim student Association building, that have thrown rocks
through the dorm window. The greatest assault on free speech
is the pro Palestinian movement. And I'm sick and tired
of pretending that that is not the case.
Speaker 1: And it's while they scream anti fascist, you know exactly
in a world.
Speaker 2: And again, this is why I get a little frustrated,
because I made it so clear, not only at this commission,
but every time I'm on Piers Morgan or any time
I'm on a debate show, I always make it clear
you have a right in America to hate Jews and
to hate Muslims, and to hate Christians and Gays. I
don't recommend it because I don't think you'll get very
foreign life. I think you'll find that people who don't
want to hire you, people won't want to associate themselves
with you. But you can do it because you have
free speech and the First Amendment. The only thing I'm
concerned about is when you violate the law. And again
this frustrates me because I made this point at a
conference in Miami a few weeks ago, and the grifters
online deliberately spliced and clipped what I had said to
make it seem as though I was saying the only
way we combat anti Semitism is by imprisoning.
Speaker 4: People who criticize Israel.
Speaker 2: Is not true, but again that is the opposite of
what I believe in and this idea that criticizing Israel
is somehow illegal. Any of you have Twitter, have any
of you like read a newspaper. The only topic the
media is concerned with, the only topic you know twenty
five year olds and under are concerned with is criticizing Israel. Great,
go for it. I'm not concerned if you hate Israel
or hate the Jews. I'm concerned if you throw a
rock through the synagogue. I'm concerned when you hands on
American Jewish student. That's when the only solution is to
prosecute crime. And in America we have a crisis of accountability.
Whether it's leftist das, whether it is prosecutors who don't
prosecute crime, whether it's judges and jurors. The only solution.
It's not just true of anti Semitism, it's true of
any type of criminality. The only way that we can
restore accountability and justice in our system is by prosecuting crime.
No more diversion programs, nor more cash list bail. When
someone commits a crime, send them to jail. That is
a mass a.
Speaker 1: What's the status then of Because as we often joke
on our show about Carrie's insistence that she is still
a part of the Commission. She's not e f and leaving.
So is that true? Like when are you guys meeting again?
And is she going to show up?
Speaker 2: Like what is this?
Speaker 4: How does that? And how does that work?
Speaker 3: How often do you meet? How often does that happen?
Speaker 2: So I'm not on the commission. There are thirteen commissioners.
And by the way, again when she says the Zionist
are silencing her, of the thirteen commissioners, all of them
are Christian except one, rab By Maricelavachik, and at least
four of them are Catholic themselves.
Speaker 4: But I digress.
Speaker 2: But I was a witness to this hearing, and I
work closely with many of the commissioners in terms of
religious liberties, because at the end of the year, they're
going to provide essentially a well researched document, a paper
to the President outlining the specific policies that he can
advance to alleviate the religious discrimination that Americans are facing.
So I can confirm you heard it from me first,
based on my sources and friends in the White House.
She has been fired from the Commission. Den Patrick, who's
the Lieutenant Governor of Texas does have the authority to
remove her from the commission.
Speaker 4: But even if he.
Speaker 2: Doesn't, this came from the top. President Trump wanted her
off the commission. And the reason that carry is saying, well,
I'm only leaving if the President tells me the President
doesn't care about you. Okay, Like, lady, get this through
your head. I'm a nob Custembaum am a nobody, and you,
Carrie Boehler, you're also a nobody. So President Drum it's
not going to write letters about either of us because
it's a waste of his time. He doesn't think about you.
You don't occupy enough space in his busy schedule whereby
he's actually going to write down, whether it's a tweet
or a letter, and saying you're off the commission. That's
how much of a nobody both you and I are.
Speaker 4: So she's best friends with Candace come home right.
Speaker 2: Well. The problem is, though, and I think you were
alluding to this, the problem is in our grifting culture.
I can guarantee you what she is going to do
at the next hearing is she is going to show
up and she's going to show up with her phone
on a live ride with hundreds of Candace Owens provocateurs,
and she is going to demand that she'd be let
into the building, And when she is inevitably not let
into the building, it's because they're silencing her Catholic voice.
Speaker 4: That's how the grift works. So you heard it.
Speaker 2: I get not that Dan Patrick, you know, should listen
to me, But if he wants to listen to me,
I think she should be allowed into the meeting simply
because it's open to the public. But no one really
cared about the Commission until she came up with these
bizarre conspiracy theories. She should be allowed to listen because
that's any Americans right. But if she wants to disrupt
or propagate her own narrative, then that that is certainly
not appropriate.
Speaker 4: Then she should be removed.
Speaker 2: But I do think she should be allowed into the
building because that would negate the preconceived notion she has
of I'm going to be silenced for my free speech.
Tune in watch my show and you'll see why. But
the next hearing, this is important for your listeners to
know in case they don't. It's true the previous meeting
focused on anti Semitism. The Commission is not set up
to deal exclusively with anti Semitism. That was the sixth
hearing they've held. The previous five were all about anti
anti Christian biases. In fact, I think the one prior
to our hearing was about anti Catholic excuse me, anti
Christian discrimination in the workforce. So people often say, why
this is a commission just about anti Semitism. It's just
not true. You've only started paying attention at this particular hearing.
But as I said, hearings are publicly available. I encourage
all Americans you should go to them. In fact, there
were only about fifty people in the room last time.
There should be five hundred people in the room. Because
religious discrimination is a really important issue in the United States,
and that's why we have commissioners who are singularly focused
on that issue. And if you are interested in advancing
your own political agenda, if you're interested in debating the
merits of Candice Owens, if you're interested in talking about
a foreign conflict in the Middle East, I mean, go
for it. But you don't do that on this commission,
because that's not what we're set up to do.
Speaker 3: I just wonder if she because I didn't, and you're
absolutely right not many people were as interested until she
opened her loud mouth that one day. But I'm just
I'm curious as if she was as boisterous and bold
and as you know, defensive of people, you know, being
against Catholics as she was in that anti submitted here.
I'm very a Palestine pine right.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked that because I was at the
first and second hearing, and obviously I was at the
fifth when I testified. And the answer is no, looked up.
So again, it was a it was a pre orchestrated ploy,
a pre orchestrated prop And if you again, if you
want to talking about Israel, I'm happy to talk about Israel.
I'm happy to debate. But President Trump said, set up
this commission to focus on American lives. And again, I
just find it so frustrating and so ironic when she says,
how come Israel has been mentioned so many times? A
thought though, this was America. Bro, Look at my testimony
ten minutes. I did not mention Israel. I did not
mention Zionism. I did not mention Apak, I did not
mention Bib, I did not mention Gaza. I did not
mention Zionism. So if you listened to a ten minute
testimony of an American talking about religious discrimination against his
friends who are Catholic and Christian and Mormon and Jewish,
and then you are self deposed to only ask about Israel,
then clearly you're the problem.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if it's supposed to be centered on American lives,
don't walk in there with the freaking Palestine pin on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. So again, I'll use your platform.
Speaker 2: I've been using any platform to say, Carrie, anytime you
want to have a respectful dialogue, I would believe.
Speaker 4: It anytime anywhere.
Speaker 2: I think we actually both live in California, So you
let me know, and I'm happy to debate these issues.
But if your response is only to be Christ is
your king, then I have serious doubts about your intellectual
abilities to have an adult conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would not.
Speaker 1: I would not give her a tiny, the tiniest bit
of credit to be able to do that.
Speaker 4: One would love to see it talked about.
Speaker 1: We would love our show too. Is that we're a
little concerned that the friendship that jd Vance has with
Tucker could be a problem tross around his neck for
this next election. Cycle for president, and I know, based
on because I follow you on Twitter, of course, that you,
like us, would prefer to see a Marco Rubio in
twenty twenty eight. Do you want to talk about your
preference a little bit and does it have anything to.
Speaker 4: Do with that.
Speaker 2: I want to be as non controversial as possible, So
when you ask me about JD Vance, my answer is
simple and succinct, which is President Marco Rubio has a
really nice sound to it, doesn't it. I without getting
into JD specifically, and I don't want to get in
any trouble here, and a lot can change between now
and the election, but I will say in general, is
anyone who believes that Tucker Carlson is a voice of
conservatism clearly does not know Tucker Carlson. Forget about Israel
just for a moment, forgot about the fact that he
wants me to have a DNA.
Speaker 4: Test, which believing that all aside.
Speaker 2: This is someone who again he felt bad that Nicholas
Maduro was extradited to the United States because Nicholas Maduro. Yeah,
he might be a socialist where ninety percent of his
people live in abject poverty, but he doesn't like gay people.
This is someone who's so out of touch with conservatism.
This is someone who, as I said, is buying a
home and cutter. This is someone who feels safe as
a Christian practice in Christianity in Saudi Arabia, even though
it is criminalized in Saudi Arabia. This is someone who
went to Russia to exclaim the virtues of the Putin regime.
This is someone who has not yet found a either
Communist dictator or an Islamic dictator who he would have
a friendship and dialogue with. This is someone who believes
that what's in America's best interest is actually what in
Putin's best interests. So if you think this is the
future of conservatism, you know, then I really fear for
the future of conservatism. Refusing to engage with individuals I
don't just mean Tucker, but let's talk more broadly about
Nick or Candice or whomever. Refusing to engage with individuals
who believe, for example, that we should imprison all blacks,
that we should deport all Mexicans even if they're legal,
that we should rape women whom we disagree with politically.
Refusing to engage with those individuals is not engaging in
cancel culture. It's engaging in common sense and we just
used to know this. That's why William Buckley, when he
ostracized the John Birch Society, he became a hero of
the conservative movement because its conservatives we recognize there are
things we believe in and there are things we don't
believe in, and if you don't believe in our policies
or whatever, that's your prerogative. That's actually pray for democracy.
You know, in the marketplace of ideas, let's have a
clash of which ideas are better. However, we don't have
an obligation to promote and provide a platform for the
those ideas. So the example I always give is if
someone believed in genital mutilation. If someone believed that nine
year olds who think they're in the wrong body has
a constitutional right to go to a doctor and say, doctor,
cut off my genitals and implant the different organs of
the different gender, and doctor, if you don't do that,
then I'm going to sue you for civil rights discrimination.
If someone believed that that's true and he went to
SEAPAC and said, Seapack, you better platform me, and SEAPAC says, well,
You're free to believe what you want. That's her prerogative.
But we're not going to platform you because we don't
believe in that thing. Is Seapack silencing his voice. No,
Sea PAC is conserving what they believe to be in
the best interest of the American people. And this is
why I get so frustrated again with people like carry,
because you do have a right to free speech. What
you lack is the ability to comprehend that I have
a right not to listen to you. I have a
rights not to platform you. President Trump has a right
to decide who's on his own commission or not so
too when it comes to people like Tucker Carlson or
Nick Flintezer, whomever.
Speaker 4: We cannot fool.
Speaker 2: Ourselves into believing that if we refuse to give these
people a microphone and we're somehow engaging in cancel culture
the opposite. One of the reasons, one of the many
reasons that we're going to get a root awakening as
Republicans and as conservatives in the midterms, and one of
the reasons we have an updill battle in the presidential
elections in twenty twenty eight is because we don't define
and we don't defend what it means to be a
conservative anymore. It's yes, more ideological diversity than the left,
and that's good. We're an open ten party and that's very,
very healthy.
Speaker 4: But within the.
Speaker 2: Overton window, there are accepted discourses and accepted ideologies, and
we cannot and should not entertain all ideas because ideas
are just bad. That's why we are conservatives and not leftists,
because if we just believe in all ideas, then we
would be welcoming people who believe in genital mutilation. But
we don't because that's not good for the American people.
Speaker 3: You're absolutely right.
Speaker 1: It's why we get so frustrated by the silence of
conservatives that we have long admired. Not pushing back against
some of these crazier voices right now makes us crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So again, without discussing jad in particular, because I don't
want anyone to I don't want to get myself in trouble,
I will say, if you truly believe that this is
someone who needs to remain within the Republican Party even
though he himself has moved increasingly adrift from the Republican Party,
then then I'm not sure why we should support you,
because my loyalties is not to a person, it's not
to even a party.
Speaker 4: It's two ideologies. It's two policies.
Speaker 2: And I believe conservative policies or what's in the best
interests of the American people. And if you are willing
to sacrifice policies in the name of people, personas, or party,
then I'm not sure we're aligned anymore.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're not.
Speaker 4: I don't think that's conservative at all.
Speaker 3: Plus, I mean, if you just look at just common sense,
look at Marco Rubio, he's just more experienced, he's done
more things, he's been around a lot long.
Speaker 4: He's just the right guy for the job. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, if I look at every major foreign policy
accomplishment of the second term, I mean Marco Rubio has
been orchestrating it rates Trump and to his bizarre day credit.
I'm not sure why he said this, but at the
Governor's dinner at the White House two nights ago, jd
Vance explicitly said, you know what's great about being the
vice president is I don't have to be blamed for
anything because I'm not doing anything, which is a weird,
weird campaign strategy. So yes, whether I support JD or not.
Let me just give you know, free advice. Definitely don't
say that out loud because the Democrats will use that
as amo against you when you decide to run for president.
Speaker 1: Well oh my gosh, Okay, totally switching gears. And I
know this is personal, but I have to ask. Last summer,
you donated a kidney to a complete stranger, and I
that is amazing for at all this it's just incredibly altruistic.
And I know you've heard that many times before. But
what we want to understand your thought process, like what
compelled you to do it and would you ever want
to find out who has it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, well great question.
Speaker 2: Let me first start off by saying that the reason
I'm actually about to tell you what I'm about to
tell you is because as American Jews were so often
accused of du a loyalty, of only caring about ourselves.
I'm incredibly proud of the fact that Orthodox Jews are
about zero point three percent of the population in the
United States. We are responsible for eighteen percent of all
ultruistic kinney donations in the United States. Oh, I encourage
every every faith based organization. I encourage every religion take
a playbook from Orthodox Jews.
Speaker 4: I mean, you guys are you're.
Speaker 1: Clearly trying to run the entire donation.
Speaker 4: This is gonna spin this.
Speaker 2: You know, she is the way we control the go
is we actually implant a piece of ourselves into the
GOI and we're just feeding, you know, slop into their brain.
Get I'm very, very proud of the fact that I
grew up in a community where this is a very
very normal thing to do. My tenthary Tom, the teacher,
Robi Drelich, he did this, My principal did this, My
neighbor did this. So it's really not out of the
ordinary for an Orthodox Jew to be donating their kidney.
And again, I'm not saying this to sound elitist. On
the contrary, I'm saying this so that other people should
be inspired to do the same thing. I'm not particularly
strong or brave or good with needles, but if I
can do it, I really encourage the you know, my
fellow Americans to quote JFK. Ask not what your country
can do for you, ask what you can do for
your country. And this was a remarkable thing to do
in terms of the as I said, it was not
really something I thought about for two. I mean, actually
I did think about it for a while, because there's
an email I'm twenty six. There's an email I sent
to the organization that I donated my kidney with when
I was eighteen, saying this is something I want to do,
and they said, come back to us when you're twenty one,
and lo and behold. I did, and they said, Okay,
we weren't really expecting you to follow up, but you
know from the blood test, and we'll store your biological information.
Oh my gosh, rare blood type. I'm AB positive, which
is actually very selfish blood type, meaning I can receive
blood from anyone, but I can only give to other
AB positives.
Speaker 4: So sorry.
Speaker 2: And because it's a rare blood type, I think less
than one percent of the world has this. My information
kind of just sat on the shelf for about five
six years, and then I get a call in February
of twenty twenty five saying we have a match. And
the timing was really bad because I knew I was
moving to Los Angeles from New York to start the
show at Prager You, So I essentially said, can I
do this next winter when I know I'll be back
in New York with my family. They basically said, you
know it's your choice. We're not going to force you
one way or the other. But essentially, if you don't
do it now, there's not going to be a can
I do it next winter because you will, So no pressure,
no pressure, but you know it's other now or never.
So the way you donated kidney is you have to
be at your most healthy. Obviously, to receive the kidney,
you're at your most sick, and so you go through
a series of tests. I was at the hospital for
about fifteen sixteen hours. They do, We're a test imaginable,
not just medical, but also psychological. They want to make
sure you're not suicidal. They want to make sure you're
not being pressured to do this. Only thirty percent of
kidney donors actually get accepted to donate their kidney.
Speaker 4: So, thank my God.
Speaker 2: Accepted and then the big day came in June, because
as I said, it takes a while to be approved.
And three days after donating to kidney, I was back
from the hospital back home. A week after that, I
actually did my annual sixty mile bike ride from Auschwitz
Berknow to the Jewish Community Center of crackout, and then
two weeks after that, I've moved to Los Angeles. So
if I can do it, and again I'm not a
model of physical health. Then I encouraged the American people
to really consider kidney donation or just organ donation, even
blood donations as something that, you know, that would help
the average American. In terms of my recipient, at the time,
I had no idea who they were, and all I
knew was actually was a father with two sets of twins.
She got a letter right before the donation. We were
actually separated by just one thin wall. We had no
idea who the other person were, but were right next
door to each other, and he wrote me a role again.
I didn't know who he was, just saying, dear Donor, you know,
because of you, I can be a father again.
Speaker 4: I could be a husband again. How do I think?
Speaker 2: Gosh, very very emotional, so I actually emotional, just sing
it out loud.
Speaker 4: I am too.
Speaker 2: I wasn't planning on meeting him, He wasn't really planning
on meeting me. It wasn't really something that crossed my mind.
But then two months ago the organization renewal that I
had donated my kidney with They had said, you know,
he would be interested in meeting you and thanking you
in person, and that we met. We met about two
months ago.
Speaker 4: He was very very me cry and and chicks.
Speaker 3: The light is very I'm seriously like losing it that.
That's just remarkable.
Speaker 2: So I can I can confidently say I'm not a
very impressive individual. But of all the quote unquote cool
things I've done in my life, going to the White House,
being at the Republican Convention, speaking with Trump, testifying in Congress,
or at the canesset, traveling the world, I can confidently
say that the coolest, the most meaningful, and the most
rewarding thing I have ever done with my life has
been donating a kidney. And I would say my only
regret is that I can't do it again.
Speaker 4: I don't try.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's an amazing story.
Speaker 3: Really is amazing.
Speaker 1: So I saw that there were rumors, I don't know
if they're true, So we're going to just take it
straight to the horse's mouth that you might be planning
a run for Congress at some point.
Speaker 2: True or false, It's true that I was thinking about it.
So essentially I'm a New Yorker and needless to say,
we New Yorkers, especially New York Conservatives, are in a
very precarious state. We just elected a socialist Islamist. Yeah,
and Jerry Nadler, who was I think the longest serving
congressman from the New York delegation, he announced his retirement.
So there was just an avalanche of people who were
running for his seat, from JFK's grandson to Cameron Kaski
to really anyone you can think of is trying. George Conway.
Oh Conway, thank you. So I was thinking about it
because although I'm a Conservative, technically I'm still a registered Democrat.
And the reason I'm still a restured Democrat is because
my residency is New York and if I want to
have any say on New York politics, it would be
foolish to be a Republican in a city where Democrats
outnumber Republicans eight to one. So if I wanted to
vote against Orammdani, the only I could do that would
be in the Democratic primary. But I want to restore
normalcy to the Democratic Party. As Ronald Reagan said, I
did not abandon the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party abandoned me.
I was seriously considering running for Congress simply because I
was approached by a broad spectrum of concern New Yorkers
from an array of political ideologies, who are concerned about
and are concerned about the direction that the Democratic Party
is taking not only under Jerry Nadler, but also the
future Congressman of that district. Essentially, this race is a
race to be the next AOC and that's eventually why
I decided I was not going to run at this
particular time for this particular seat. I am open to
running for Congress in the future simply because if I
can make a difference for my community, I would be
foolish not to. In Judaism, we have the word on anova,
which essentially means humility, and the way we understand humility
is not I'm a nobody, I'm a nothing, but it's no, no, no.
If you have the cure for cancer, for example, you
have an obligation to tell people what that cure is
because if you don't, you are robbing millions of people
of a good life. However, the humility is right recognizing
that the gifts and the talents don't come from you,
they come from the one above. They come from God.
So my understanding is if I can make a difference.
I'm not saying I can. I'm not saying I'm so extraordinary.
But if people think I can make a difference, I
would be foolish, both to them and for myself. Is
saying no, no, no, not me. If I can do it,
if I could be of help, I will do it.
But this time and place is not the right time.
It's not the right place because I would have to
surrender my political values. I would have to pretend to
be someone i'm not. And this is the problem that
the Democratic Party is facing is they have candidates who
are spewing nonsense that they themselves don't believe in. I
know some of the candidates running in this race because
I spoken to them about myself about joining, and many
of them don't believe the things they're saying, especially when
it comes to Israel. But they're so hijacked, they're so
scared of what their base has become. They will say
things and play cad and acquiesce to the radical, loudest
minority of the base.
Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, I think you're extraordinary. I don't think you
care yourself enough credit. Yeah, it would be great. I'd
love to see you on our side running for some thing.
I think it'd be fantastic.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, if I could also just add and
first of all, you know, tell that to carry that,
I'm just so amazing. But you know, the problem with
American political discourse, in the American political culture today is
if I were trying as a Democrat, for example, even
though you know I sel technically am a restior Democrat,
the Democrats hate me because even though I'm quite clear
about my policies, I take pictures with Trump, and I
go to the White House and I meet with Republicans
and that's a no go.
Speaker 4: The Democrats hate me.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, so many Republicans hate me
because they will look at this I don't know, forty
five minute conversation that we've had, which I would say
is pretty nuanced, pretty rational, based in logic and data
and fact, and all they would notice is the ten
seconds where I say I'm a registered Democrat and they
would say, well, you're a libtard, you're a leftist, and
they wouldn't support me. Yeah, And I think that's one
of the problems of them again, American political discourses.
Speaker 3: It is a problem.
Speaker 2: So either on my team or your team, and again,
I'm a proud conservative. I affiliate more with the Republican Party.
I advance the things that you talk about on your show,
which is why I listen to your so often. But
that is being lost in, as I said, political binaries.
Either you have the small R or the small D.
That's all people care about, and that's dangerous for the
health of our democracy I care about.
Speaker 3: You're right, Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how much we've enjoyed this conversation.
I wanted to just also mention that I know you've
spent time in my motherland. My parents are Polish and
my dad is a Polish Jew. As a matter of fact,
I'm a mutt because my mom is Catholic and my
dad is a Jew. It's been a very interesting upbringing,
to say the least. But I love that you've spent
so much time there.
Speaker 4: Yes, oh my, I love Poland.
Speaker 2: Poland is I hope I can speak at seapack Poland
just because I would gush about how much I love
the country. Our greatest ally in Europe, mark my words.
It's not the United Kingdom, it's not France, it's not Germany.
It is Poland. Poland is the fastest growing economy in Europe.
It's actually one of the largest economies in the world today.
It is staunchly pro America. In fact, the only country
outside of Israel that has as much pro American sympathies
by the general public is Poland. They are staunchly anti fascist,
staunchly anti communist. They have been spending more on their
military as a percentage of their GDP than any other
European country, and they've been doing this for years, even
before President Trump. They have a rich tradition. They are
proud to be a Christian nation while also guaranteeing the
rights of religious freedom.
Speaker 4: For produced.
Speaker 2: I've been there more than thirty times. I have never
once experienced anti Jewish discrimination. The only time I've ever
experienced anti Jewish discrimination was at Harvard University, was on
the subways of New York City. It was never once
in Poland. And as the saying goes, yes chapposka nez Guinewa,
that Poland is not yet lost.
Speaker 4: So long as the.
Speaker 2: Spirit of patriotism and a burning sense of belief in
God is burning amongst the Polish people, the country is
not lost. And I think that is a beautiful message
that young Americans should tap into as well. We should
tap into the patriotism and the fierce love of country
that young Poles have and apply that to our love
for the United States. So big, big fan of Poland.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 4: That totally tracks, that totally tracks mock. I love it.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Tell people in our audience how they can follow you
and your work.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Well, if they're silly enough to do so,
you can just type in my name shop is casting Baum.
It's a very long, unusual name. But the positive side
is there are no other jobs casting bounce. So on
Twitter and Instagram, I'm the first result and you can
watch our show at praguer You. It's called the Brief again.
Just go prager you dot com. You'll see it on
the landing page where we have these types of conversations
every single week. So I really appreciate this conversation, and
you know, for giving me a platform to talk about well.
Speaker 4: We appreciate you.
Speaker 3: We appreciate you so much.
Speaker 4: It's just a delight to meet you.
Speaker 1: YEA one more thing, now that you've mentioned your show
on prager you have you had an opportunity to meet Dennis.
Speaker 4: You know. Unfortunately not.
Speaker 2: Dennis called me about a year and a half a year,
a year and a half ago on the phone just
to make contact, saying, you know, I've been following you work,
and I was really starstruck. Two three weeks after that
phone called, he had his accident and he has been
either in a hospital or physical therapy or at a
family's home ever since. So even though Dennis Prager is
such an intellectual giant, he's a role model, I've never
actually met him in person. I've been working at Praguer
you for about seven or eight months at this point,
I've never once met him. But of course, as a
young person, I grew up reading all of his books,
including the Nine Questions People Have about Judaism, and I
hope to one day meet him. And I'm from Hope too.
Speaker 1: That's fantastic, awesome, Thank you, Shavas. It was great to
talk to you.
Speaker 4: It was thanks. I appreciate it. You bet