Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is gimickperson.
Speaker 1: I interview incredible people who've dedicated their lives to helping
Speaker 1: those who've been impacted by trauma. A big thank you
Speaker 1: to our sponsors and our guests who are supporting this
Speaker 1: show five four, three, two and one our folks, welcome
Speaker 1: back to the podcast. Very excited to have as my
Speaker 1: guest today. Crystal Kasagnasi. Crystal welcome, Thank you all right.
Speaker 1: Crystal is a registered psychologist and the founder of Thrive
Speaker 1: Psychology Health Team. With nearly a decade of experience supporting children, adolescents,
Speaker 1: adults and families, Crystal specializes in comprehensive psychological assessments and
Speaker 1: evidence based therapy for anxiety, depression, trauma, and neurodivergence. A
Speaker 1: neurodivergent practitioner and parent herself, she brings both clinical expertise
Speaker 1: and lived experience to her work, offering a trauma formed
Speaker 1: and affirming perspective. Our Crystal. Obviously just a little bit
Speaker 1: about you, but before we going share with the listeners
Speaker 1: where you're from originally and where you are currently, and
Speaker 1: then we'll get going.
Speaker 2: So I am a first generation Canadian, So I was
Speaker 2: born in Toronto and I still reside in the Greater
Speaker 2: Toronto area. My parents are originally from Bulgaria and so
Speaker 2: they immigrated to Canada before I was born with my
Speaker 2: older sister.
Speaker 1: All Right, so how does all this start for you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely as a story there.
Speaker 2: I think for many of us in this field, without
Speaker 2: a purpose, passion might not always be there. And so
Speaker 2: there definitely was a time where I too, myself struggled
Speaker 2: with my own mental health, and I think one being
Speaker 2: a first generation Canadian is tricky, and so definitely the
Speaker 2: layers there and navigating that where you're in a society,
Speaker 2: your parents are coming from a different society, friction is,
Speaker 2: they're struggling, they're trying to figure it out and doing
Speaker 2: the best that they can with the resources that they have.
Speaker 2: But it all came to like a screeching salt, and
Speaker 2: I thought I hit rock bottom when I was probably
Speaker 2: about sixteen years old in Grade ten, and thought that
Speaker 2: I didn't want to live anymore. And so thankfully I'm
Speaker 2: alive and I'm still here, and I had help from
Speaker 2: a professional.
Speaker 3: But that's really what started.
Speaker 1: If you're jumping over all these chapters, you're giving us
Speaker 1: the intro and the epilogue. What was going on for you?
Speaker 1: I mean you mentioned the backdrop, but specifically to the
Speaker 1: degree that you feel comfortable. What were you experiencing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, like you mentioned, I am late diagnosed neuro divergent,
Speaker 2: so I didn't know back then, but the struggles were
Speaker 2: definitely there.
Speaker 3: I didn't wake up in my.
Speaker 2: Thirties and become an ADHD or autistic.
Speaker 3: It was there.
Speaker 2: I just didn't have the language to really understand that.
Speaker 2: And so traditionally I always did quite well in school,
Speaker 2: but again I did struggle with deadlines, procrastination, getting things done,
Speaker 2: and I remember there was summatives is what we would
Speaker 2: call it, final exams, assignments, all of these things come
Speaker 2: to a close at the end of the year. And
Speaker 2: I went to a school that was non semestered, so
Speaker 2: I had eight courses that I had to deal with,
Speaker 2: So that would have been eight exams and eight final
Speaker 2: projects that I postponed and delayed and put off to
Speaker 2: the very end, and so it was the end of
Speaker 2: the world that I had to get it all done.
Speaker 1: So this was going on for you, was undiagnosed? Did
Speaker 1: this show up symptomatically in terms of what anxiety stress
Speaker 1: I'm imagining.
Speaker 3: Yes, so it did show up sabbatically.
Speaker 2: I had a panic attack, which I had no idea
Speaker 2: what that was. And I remember it was the dead
Speaker 2: of winter in Canada and I was walking with my
Speaker 2: friend and I just couldn't breathe, I couldn't see. I
Speaker 2: started to feel dizzy, and she was like, do I
Speaker 2: call an ambulance?
Speaker 3: What do I do?
Speaker 2: And I was like sixteen years old, and I had
Speaker 2: no idea what was happening. In my mind, I probably
Speaker 2: thought I was having a heart attack or dying or something,
Speaker 2: which of course we know make things worse. And so
Speaker 2: that was my body showing me how stressed out I was.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: I did go to the hospital. They did tell me
Speaker 2: it was a panic attack, but I don't think I
Speaker 2: really made sense of it back then like I do now.
Speaker 2: And I continued to push myself and then I just
Speaker 2: couldn't take it anymore.
Speaker 3: There was too many things.
Speaker 2: I felt like my parents didn't get me, they didn't
Speaker 2: get it. I felt like I was alone and the
Speaker 2: only one in this world that was dealing with this thing.
Speaker 2: And so oh, I one night was like, I don't
Speaker 2: want to be here anymore.
Speaker 3: But I'm still here.
Speaker 1: So what did you do with that one night? Did
Speaker 1: you just had that thought? Did you?
Speaker 3: Yeah? So thank you for asking.
Speaker 2: I don't know how much detail you want, but I
Speaker 2: am going to open it too, because I do think.
Speaker 1: People are going to connect with you with your story, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is what this podcast is about. I
Speaker 1: don't want just a thirty thousand foot view of what's
Speaker 1: going on. To the degree that you feel comfortable sharing,
Speaker 1: is a lot of people have that same experience? What
Speaker 1: was yours?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So I guess I had said this is it,
Speaker 2: I'm done with this place, and I had some minde
Speaker 2: all and tyin a li all and I took a
Speaker 2: whole bunch right, And I remember crying and feeling absolutely
Speaker 2: like out of it. I couldn't walk and I was like, wait, no,
Speaker 2: what's happening?
Speaker 3: I why did I do this? And I had to crawl.
Speaker 2: To my older sister's room and she had she was
Speaker 2: two rooms down for me, and I crawled there and
Speaker 2: it was like nighttime, and so I literally grasped onto
Speaker 2: her and said I need help. And I guess like
Speaker 2: she woke up in a panic. My parents woke up
Speaker 2: in a panic. Didn't know what happened. I couldn't talk,
Speaker 2: I was like out of it, and so they took
Speaker 2: me to an emergency and I guess at that time
Speaker 2: they like hooked me up to IVS and try to
Speaker 2: get things out of my system. And I was okay, thankfully,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I guess I really was done at that time.
Speaker 2: And then in that's liver of a moment, I was
Speaker 2: like wait, wait, like what did I just do? And
Speaker 2: I thankfully someone was there that really one helped me physically.
Speaker 2: But then afterwards I got connected with supports from my
Speaker 2: mental health that really helped me with that and really
Speaker 2: pave the journey for me to say, hey, like I
Speaker 2: had this experience, I really struggled. Someone was there for me,
Speaker 2: and I want to do this for others as well.
Speaker 1: Well. Okay, so how does the healing journey for you unfold?
Speaker 1: And how old are you at this point?
Speaker 3: I am thirty two years old this year.
Speaker 1: So when you had that experience, I was sixteen. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you get help. Someone hears you at what point?
Speaker 1: But you said you weren't diagnosed. You weren't diagnosed at
Speaker 1: that point? We were you diagnosed with anything at that point?
Speaker 2: No? Your point and I think healing definitely is a
Speaker 2: lifelong journey, and I strongly believe that we're always healing
Speaker 2: and learning and unlearning. So even though I've healed, I'm
Speaker 2: still very much so in that state where I'm always
Speaker 2: trying to improve. But what had happened is I saw
Speaker 2: a psychiatrist at the hospital and a social worker and
Speaker 2: didn't deem meet at risk enough. So I was at
Speaker 2: home and I had to go back to school. And
Speaker 2: my mom, coming from a household of an immigrant right
Speaker 2: where traditionally mental health all of these things, it's very
Speaker 2: nuanced and we don't really talk about it, don't know
Speaker 2: how to support.
Speaker 3: I remember hearing things like.
Speaker 2: Kind of like ignored, yeah, and you know, bless her
Speaker 2: because she didn't know what to do. And she went
Speaker 2: to my high school and was like, this is what happened.
Speaker 3: Help me.
Speaker 2: I don't know what to do. And I think in
Speaker 2: that moment as a teenager, I hated her for it
Speaker 2: because I felt embarrassed and humiliated. But looking back, thank
Speaker 2: goodness she did that. So of course, in Canada when
Speaker 2: there's difficulties like this, and in the States as well, right,
Speaker 2: we have systems that support students as best as they can,
Speaker 2: and so I was connected with the school social worker,
Speaker 2: which was phenomenal. It was a wonderful experience for me.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, a part of it is
Speaker 2: I was getting involved with like the wrong crowd and
Speaker 2: skipping school, you know, not really anchoring myself in my
Speaker 2: academic success that I did have. And so this person
Speaker 2: just told me straight and kind of helped me, you know,
Speaker 2: anchor myself.
Speaker 3: And they told.
Speaker 2: Me, if I want to pursue this, because I had
Speaker 2: shared with them, you really helped me. I want to
Speaker 2: do this, that I had to put in the hard work.
Speaker 2: So they were able to help me find places to
Speaker 2: volunteer in in high school. But I had to show
Speaker 2: up and I had to you know, interview, and I
Speaker 2: had to do it.
Speaker 3: I ended up.
Speaker 2: Switching high schools through conversations with them my parents. You know,
Speaker 2: eight courses was a lot to carry. So I switched
Speaker 2: schools to wat get away from some of these relationships
Speaker 2: that were kind of putting me in a tough spot,
Speaker 2: but also to manage four courses at a time and
Speaker 2: not having to carry that heavy of a load. And
Speaker 2: so grade twelve, I went to a new school, no friends,
Speaker 2: I really locked in on my studies because I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to university and that I did, and I
Speaker 2: went to my undergrad which again you know, first and
Speaker 2: second year, boy were they tough and I wanted to
Speaker 2: drop out. I told my boyfriend at the time. My
Speaker 2: parents like, I am done. I am not doing this.
Speaker 2: It is too hard. I am too tired. And looking back,
Speaker 2: I think definitely, you know, like cycle of burnout. I
Speaker 2: was burnt out, and so thankfully around the same time
Speaker 2: my school went on strike, so I had that pause.
Speaker 2: I kind of recentered, found my passion again and pushed through.
Speaker 2: In psychology. Undergrad psyche it is brutal. You learn everything
Speaker 2: and anything, and it is multiple choice. And so for
Speaker 2: someone with ADHD autism, even though I didn't know it,
Speaker 2: you struggle with executive functioning and so multiple choice and
Speaker 2: a million one things to know they don't not go
Speaker 2: hand in hand. But by my third and my fourth year,
Speaker 2: where I really focused in on therapy, you know, psychology topics,
Speaker 2: more applicable skills, counseling skills, That's when I felt more
Speaker 2: grounded and I met the next person in my journey
Speaker 2: that really believed in me and inspired me and was
Speaker 2: like you got to keep going. Because I knew I
Speaker 2: had this goal, I just didn't know how I was
Speaker 2: going to get there.
Speaker 3: And so when it got hard, was.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a psychologist, right, and so I
Speaker 2: knew this is what I wanted to do, and I
Speaker 2: didn't know if it was possible, if I could do it,
Speaker 2: if I could get there. I realized that the more
Speaker 2: that I thought about it and try to map it out,
Speaker 2: the more anxious I got about it. And so I
Speaker 2: think my brain just kind of focused on the here
Speaker 2: and now, and looking back, I think everything fell into
Speaker 2: place the way that it did, but definitely there was
Speaker 2: that hard work along the way and those people that
Speaker 2: believed in me along the way. And so in fourth
Speaker 2: year I had a wonderful professor that was like, you
Speaker 2: should go to grad school. There's this program. It's really great.
Speaker 2: You know, in Canada we have like public institutions and
Speaker 2: private institutions. There was this program that is private, but
Speaker 2: it's more so focused on like the clinical skills rather
Speaker 2: than the research. And I think research never has been
Speaker 2: my bread and butter. So they recommended this program. I
Speaker 2: did an interview, I got in, you know, and I
Speaker 2: did this clinical psych program, which was great. I didn't
Speaker 2: struggle at all academically. I felt like because it was
Speaker 2: my passion, my interest, I was motivated. Those attentional difficulties
Speaker 2: were not as hard to keep up with, right like,
Speaker 2: I was able to manage. And then after that I
Speaker 2: did go back to you know, the field and start working.
Speaker 2: I started working in a school board with students, which
Speaker 2: was great. I've always worked in school board settings, but
Speaker 2: also private practice settings because with today's day and age
Speaker 2: and economy, I couldn't just have one job.
Speaker 3: I had to have multiples. So I liked the balance
Speaker 3: of that and.
Speaker 2: Being able to work in a school setting, but then
Speaker 2: also to be able to work in a private setting
Speaker 2: where the therapy, you know, the assessments, they were more
Speaker 2: complex and thorough. In the school system, you know, we
Speaker 2: are limited in terms of the time we have with
Speaker 2: students and the services that we could offer.
Speaker 3: So I enjoyed that balance.
Speaker 2: And then I had some kids, so I'm a mom
Speaker 2: of three. I had my first child, and I was
Speaker 2: planning for my second while also going back to school
Speaker 2: to do my doctorate. So now going back to like
Speaker 2: more of a public setting, I decided to go to
Speaker 2: the university of Toronto and do my doctorate just because
Speaker 2: I wanted to get more schooling. And so I'm like,
Speaker 2: I need to do an assessment. I know I struggled
Speaker 2: in the past with school. I know this has been hard,
Speaker 2: and so I'd like some formal accommodations. And so I
Speaker 2: went into it thinking that I had anxiety and you know,
Speaker 2: thought maybe at times when there was those lows and
Speaker 2: maybe it was depression. And the wonderful psychologist told me
Speaker 2: it was ADHD, and I was like, wow, okay, it
Speaker 2: is ADHD.
Speaker 3: I kind of wondered at some times, but I didn't know.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 2: University to have a critical mind and to question things,
Speaker 2: and so naturally I did, and I did do a
Speaker 2: second assessment. And so before I started ADHD medication, I
Speaker 2: was like, I need to be one hundred and twenty percent.
Speaker 2: I want a second opinion. I want to make sure
Speaker 2: that this fits right, a little bit of the denial mindset,
Speaker 2: which did also confirm it.
Speaker 1: And then Crystal, So these assessment was with These were
Speaker 1: psychological assessments like a battery of peste.
Speaker 3: So I did.
Speaker 2: My first assessment was a psychological assessment, and then I
Speaker 2: was like, let me see what a medical doctor psychiatrist
Speaker 2: has to say, right, some differences there, and they both
Speaker 2: came to the same conclusion.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, okay, so wow, at what point do you
Speaker 1: learn about the now pardon my ignorance here, does autism
Speaker 1: and HGAD fall under the topic of neurodivergence or just
Speaker 1: is that just autism? They both do, yes, okay.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah the autism that didn't comme until later, right, So
Speaker 2: I wasn't identified early on, but this is common, right.
Speaker 2: ADHD often does overshadow or conceal autistic traits. And so
Speaker 2: even with my own clients, with colleagues, people that I
Speaker 2: know with, we all joke around and say that ADHD
Speaker 2: is like that gateway diagnosis to autism, right. I think
Speaker 2: societally it has become more you know, accepted, right, a
Speaker 2: lot more understanding about ADHD to start. We feel more
Speaker 2: comfortable receiving this diagnosis where autism or you know, is
Speaker 2: still not so much understood or accepted or you know,
Speaker 2: not there yet but hopefully soon. And so once I
Speaker 2: got that adh SHE diagnosis, I started taking medication, which
Speaker 2: like one hundred and fifty percent confirmed it because I
Speaker 2: was like, wow, this is what it's like to you know,
Speaker 2: not be distracted.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: And with that, definitely I felt more equipped. But of course,
Speaker 2: you know, there was grief there for that sixteen year
Speaker 2: old girl that almost died because she was struggling with
Speaker 2: ADHD and didn't have the tools to cope with it. Right,
Speaker 2: And so definitely, through my own therapy works through that
Speaker 2: portion of things. Had a couple more kids. So I'm
Speaker 2: a mom of three, and I remember social media right
Speaker 2: wonderful and many different ways. We do have to take
Speaker 2: things with the grain of salt. But I do think
Speaker 2: that in today's day and age, through podcasts, through conversations,
Speaker 2: through posts, this is where we're doing the big learning
Speaker 2: by relating to one another. And another person that I
Speaker 2: have no idea who they are posted this video about
Speaker 2: themselves and AUDIHD as we refer to it, which is
Speaker 2: odd and ADHD and I had known that the ADHD piece.
Speaker 2: I didn't know the autisum piece, even though I had
Speaker 2: worked with autistic kids. I was a psychologist at this
Speaker 2: point doing assessments. It just didn't click. And I remember
Speaker 2: it was Christmas break, just after I became a registered psychologist.
Speaker 2: I came across this video and you know, to become
Speaker 2: a psychologist, there's a lot of work, so I was
Speaker 2: likely a little bit burnt out, but I remember just sobbing.
Speaker 2: It really hit me and it was like a light
Speaker 2: bulb and I was like, this person just described my
Speaker 2: whole life in less than five minutes, and this is
Speaker 2: what I've experienced and didn't know.
Speaker 1: That in that moment. What were you identifying with specifically?
Speaker 2: I think this sense of not belonging, this chronic feeling
Speaker 2: like I am different and I don't belong and I
Speaker 2: don't know why, this chronic sense of I have such
Speaker 2: big feelings and empathy and emotions that if a friend,
Speaker 2: a loved one, and even another human being, if they
Speaker 2: describe things to me, I really do feel it this.
Speaker 2: I have been a history of like having moments of
Speaker 2: you know, shutting down, periods of burnout and just like
Speaker 2: disconnecting moments of when I was younger, having huge meltdowns
Speaker 2: and just being a handful for my family to deal with,
Speaker 2: you know, having so much wonderful skills and knowledge about
Speaker 2: certain things, but then other things just knowing absolutely nothing
Speaker 2: about and really struggling with feeling as though I am
Speaker 2: performing all the time, like it's a performance and people
Speaker 2: are judging me or crediting me. I need to be
Speaker 2: liked by others, which really did fuel into my people
Speaker 2: pleasing tendencies and my drive to be perfect twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven, all of these pieces.
Speaker 3: You know, that's just the way.
Speaker 2: That I have been, and it does come with hardships
Speaker 2: because one, we can never please everybody. People will dislike
Speaker 2: us or be unhappy with us. That's just the reality.
Speaker 2: And two, we can't be perfect. It's not possible. So
Speaker 2: I've always been stuck in this state where I'm fighting
Speaker 2: against myself with two unreal realities that I expect.
Speaker 3: And once I heard that, and I just like all clicked.
Speaker 2: All the times where I felt stressed out or overwhelmed,
Speaker 2: disappointed in myself, when I didn't want to live, all
Speaker 2: of these things were like a slap in the face,
Speaker 2: and it's like, Wow, there's nothing wrong with me.
Speaker 3: I'm not broken. I think I have autism.
Speaker 2: And so I remember telling my friends, my partner, my parents,
Speaker 2: and people were like hmm, like as if I was
Speaker 2: like out to lunch, to be honest. And then a
Speaker 2: wonderful colleague of mine around the same time got diagnosed
Speaker 2: and I had already booked my assessment. I was already
Speaker 2: on this journey, and I was like, you know what,
Speaker 2: like I need to know, I feel it, but I'd
Speaker 2: like someone else to tell me if this is the
Speaker 2: truth or not. And someone I used to work with
Speaker 2: came out and said that they were AUDIHD and autistic.
Speaker 2: And so that was that next you know, like step
Speaker 2: in my journey. That was like, okay, like you know
Speaker 2: you can be an autistic psychologist, right, because of course,
Speaker 2: like you fight against yourself to be like is this acceptable?
Speaker 3: What will people think of me?
Speaker 2: Right? But they came out and I was like, you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm doing this? So I continued on with
Speaker 2: my appointment. Actually last April, so a year ago today,
Speaker 2: in the month of autism Acceptance.
Speaker 3: Is when I got my diagnosis. And I just cried.
Speaker 2: And I think it was not cry from sadness, but
Speaker 2: it was crying from I'm not crazy. You know, I
Speaker 2: did see this thing, and you see me, you understand it.
Speaker 2: I'm not alone. There's many of us out there, and
Speaker 2: now I have the language and the framework that I've
Speaker 2: missed for this, you know, three decades of my life
Speaker 2: to really understand my experience and to support my brain
Speaker 2: in a way that I won't burn out, that I
Speaker 2: won't dislike myself, that I won't feel as though, you know,
Speaker 2: something's wrong with me most of the time.
Speaker 1: So yeah, damn, Crystal, You're amazing. Your story is like
Speaker 1: so and so you are so inspiring. I mean just
Speaker 1: you know everything you went through, and you know, crawling
Speaker 1: down the hallway grabbing your sister waking her up. I mean,
Speaker 1: my gosh, you know amazing, and then here you are
Speaker 1: founding this psychology group Thrive. Talk to us. How did
Speaker 1: that come about?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So, I mean I do attribute it to my ADHD
Speaker 2: brain for sure. That drive, that inspiration, and that like
Speaker 2: a little bit of impulsivity, right, risk taking, because opening
Speaker 2: up a business, starting something so big, there is a risk, right,
Speaker 2: There's always that fear of the unknown.
Speaker 3: And I had.
Speaker 2: This idea, and I was like, just do it, right,
Speaker 2: I don't want to live my life regretting it. But
Speaker 2: I had always worked in this community, this area. I
Speaker 2: was born and raised in this area, so it is
Speaker 2: close to home and close to my heart. There was
Speaker 2: no practice like this here, right, and so I would
Speaker 2: have to travel thirty minutes forty minutes an hour doing
Speaker 2: all of these other places, and so.
Speaker 3: That's where the idea.
Speaker 2: Came from that I don't want to continue commuting. I
Speaker 2: don't want to have this environment here not be served right.
Speaker 3: And so with that.
Speaker 2: Idea started, it did bloom and grow over time, and
Speaker 2: I think daily my passion really is confirmed just because
Speaker 2: the girl that I was, there's many children ado lessons
Speaker 2: that I work with every single day that are like me.
Speaker 2: I think today's day and age, I've about eighty percent
Speaker 2: of the assessments and the therapy that I'm doing is
Speaker 2: with people that are burnt out, that are drained, that
Speaker 2: are questioning do I have ADHD? Do I have autism?
Speaker 2: So many people are receiving these diagnoses and feeling seen
Speaker 2: and heard and you know, understood for once.
Speaker 3: In their lives.
Speaker 2: And so I think that's the passion that you know,
Speaker 2: continues my practice day and day out, because there is
Speaker 2: still a little bit of a divide in our field,
Speaker 2: believe it or not, and still some people probably would
Speaker 2: question an autistic psychologists and whether or not that's that's possible.
Speaker 3: But when we look.
Speaker 2: At the research, we really do see that our tradition
Speaker 2: methods of assessing and detecting and observing signs of neurodiversity
Speaker 2: in girls, women and other marginalized individuals is flawed because
Speaker 2: a lot of it is internalized and nuanced, like I
Speaker 2: said earlier in terms of the depression talk in my household,
Speaker 2: and so it's hard to spot and it does require
Speaker 2: a lot of deeper work, and oftentimes it can coexist
Speaker 2: with trauma and it can, you know, mirror one another.
Speaker 2: I think a big part of it is understanding if
Speaker 2: it is trauma or autism, but another part of it
Speaker 2: is it can be both, because I think in itself,
Speaker 2: being autistic or having ADHD and living a life not
Speaker 2: knowing is traumatic. It really is stressful and overwhelming, and
Speaker 2: our brain really does learn ways to protect ourselves and
Speaker 2: that typically includes masking or evolving, concealing, keeping it away,
Speaker 2: keeping it hidden. And if a psychologist in their thirties
Speaker 2: was able to hide it from themselves for that long
Speaker 2: and was practicing in the field, surely many others do
Speaker 2: as well, right, And so I think my passion really
Speaker 2: is bringing that education, that understanding. If one person here's
Speaker 2: a story and was like, oh I wonder, then I
Speaker 2: would feel happy about it because receiving that final diagnosis
Speaker 2: in addition to the ADHD has truly saved my life
Speaker 2: to be honest a second time and prevented that burnout
Speaker 2: that was surely coming if I didn't know. In the
Speaker 2: last year, I have really focused on my mental well being,
Speaker 2: my own therapy, my own unwriting of this perfectionism, this
Speaker 2: people pleasing or masking, and being my own true, authentic
Speaker 2: self that I do think is going to allow for
Speaker 2: me to be the best that I can in my
Speaker 2: field and also to take care of myself and my
Speaker 2: body the best that I can.
Speaker 3: Well, what.
Speaker 1: Could you review, just broadly the diagnostic criteria for autism
Speaker 1: and isn't it can correct me if I'm wrong? Isn't
Speaker 1: it usually or commonly diagnosed early?
Speaker 3: It can be.
Speaker 2: But I think the rate in which we are identifying
Speaker 2: it in adulthood these days has shifted, right, And we
Speaker 2: do know that our lovely friend, the DSM is getting
Speaker 2: updated in the near future, And so I'm curious in
Speaker 2: terms of what these diagnostic pieces will look like. Right
Speaker 2: and if AUDIHD, whereas ADHD and autism together becomes its
Speaker 2: own diagnosis one day, We don't know, but we do
Speaker 2: look at several different areas right.
Speaker 3: One of it being that.
Speaker 2: Restricted repetitive behaviors, this neatness for sameness or novelty with
Speaker 2: the adhdpiece. With this, it's like routine and that does
Speaker 2: not have to be rigid in the sense of I
Speaker 2: need to do ABC and D every single day. That
Speaker 2: could be more nuanced and socially acceptable, as in, like
Speaker 2: every day at work, I park in the same general
Speaker 2: area of my parking lot, right, or I have these
Speaker 2: certain sequences of getting ready every single day, and I
Speaker 2: just that's the way that I do things. In terms
Speaker 2: of the special interests, it's not dinosaurs or cars, you know,
Speaker 2: or things that we might see in childhood. For me,
Speaker 2: my special interest was actually psychology and human behavior, right
Speaker 2: because at a young age I really learned to study
Speaker 2: others and learn how to adapt, and so I fell
Speaker 2: into this field trying to understand others and trying to
Speaker 2: make a career out of it, which is an autistic trait,
Speaker 2: and really built my whole life around it, my whole
Speaker 2: passion and purpose. And so my special interest aligns with
Speaker 2: my career and working and so it is societally acceptable
Speaker 2: in terms of any other mannerisms or any other behaviors.
Speaker 2: Look back, I don't think I was aware of it,
Speaker 2: but I do fidget, I do like cross my hands
Speaker 2: and my feet, and I think likely my brain.
Speaker 1: Right now under my desk, okay.
Speaker 2: Like I do certain things with them, and you know,
Speaker 2: in absence, you know, one trait does not mean you're autistic,
Speaker 2: but all together collectively like that has been my experience,
Speaker 2: and I think as my nervous system has gotten out
Speaker 2: of fight or flight, right, I think I've done masked
Speaker 2: and I do these things more freely because there are
Speaker 2: a sense of self regulation and coping eye contact right, Like,
Speaker 2: it's hard to sustain it. Sometimes it's inconsistent. It's not
Speaker 2: that I can't make eye contact. I may prefer not to,
Speaker 2: and I give myself permission these days. I think the
Speaker 2: biggest piece in terms of for my experience is really
Speaker 2: these moments of being alone.
Speaker 3: So I am very social.
Speaker 2: I'm very empathetic, which typically with my wonder is that
Speaker 2: in you know, the opposite of autism, because we hear
Speaker 2: rumors and myths that if you have autism, you're not
Speaker 2: empathetic or you don't want to be social. And that's
Speaker 2: not the case for me and my experience and a
Speaker 2: lot of autistic individuals. We actually can be hypersocial, hyper,
Speaker 2: you know, extroverted, hyper empathetic. But it's the rest and
Speaker 2: the recovery that I need in between, right, and so
Speaker 2: after a long day of sessions, I need quiet time
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, after a week of
Speaker 2: sessions the weekend, you know, I may not always want
Speaker 2: to do fun things. I might need that alone time.
Speaker 2: And I think prior to knowing, I was pushing myself
Speaker 2: to do the most right, like go here, go there,
Speaker 2: you know, be a good mom, be a good friend.
Speaker 2: In the last year, I've been like, if I want
Speaker 2: to stay home and relax, I'm giving myself that permission
Speaker 2: to rely because my brain needs it. And so, long
Speaker 2: story short, I'm going off topic. But there's lots of
Speaker 2: different signs and symptoms that we look for to really understand.
Speaker 2: I think in adulthood we definitely like to explore anxiety
Speaker 2: and depression and mental health as well, because oftentimes when
Speaker 2: we are neuro divergent, it can make us feel anxious
Speaker 2: and overwhelmed, which can exacerbate those difficulties. It can make
Speaker 2: us feel depressed, which can also exacerbate those difficulties. Trauma,
Speaker 2: like I said, is another piece to keep an eye
Speaker 2: on and kind of understand. Exploring the autism piece is
Speaker 2: looking at those social communication behaviors, the restricted interests, you know,
Speaker 2: all of those patterns that we would see present in
Speaker 2: some capacity and form in childhood and adolescence. And then
Speaker 2: the attention piece can be either an inattentive profile, which
Speaker 2: is more of those internalized pieces where struggle with attention, planning, prioritizing, organization,
Speaker 2: or the hyperactive pieces where I maybe feel more restless,
Speaker 2: have more energy, more go go go, maybe even more
Speaker 2: busier or hard to keep up with, or those combined together.
Speaker 3: And so looking at that.
Speaker 2: Whole profile really is what we do in an adult assessment.
Speaker 2: Also with children adolescents with more nuanced cases, we do
Speaker 2: that as well. I think the interview is the biggest
Speaker 2: part of things. Listening to our clients, listening to our families,
Speaker 2: that is the biggest piece to understanding because research does
Speaker 2: show that our questionnaires, our methods, they're not bulletproof.
Speaker 3: They will miss people.
Speaker 2: And I think hearing people's voices is what we need
Speaker 2: to be doing because their lived experience is really the
Speaker 2: foundation for us to understand and not our own biases.
Speaker 2: I do hear sometimes in our field people say people
Speaker 2: are diagnosis shopping, getting other perspectives this and that, and no,
Speaker 2: people are understanding of their experience and they want to,
Speaker 2: you know, find someone that can help them make sense
Speaker 2: of it.
Speaker 3: And if we.
Speaker 2: Discount people who see on social media this thing and
Speaker 2: think they have autism, that's our own bias speaking. So
Speaker 2: I think looking at all that information as closely as
Speaker 2: possible and making sense of it is a big portion
Speaker 2: of it. And also being mindful that in a way
Speaker 2: our systems can pathologize and discriminate against people, and our
Speaker 2: criteria really.
Speaker 3: Can do that.
Speaker 2: And I think things like borderline personality disorder and bipolar
Speaker 2: disorder are big things that individuals get unfortunately misdiagnosed with.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, just looking at everything as best as
Speaker 2: we can is really my message.
Speaker 1: Awesome, all right, Crystal, how do people learn more about
Speaker 1: you and what you're doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So my website is www dot five dash Psychology dot
Speaker 2: ca A, and people can also see me on social
Speaker 2: media at sit with Crystal and Crystal are spelt weird.
Speaker 3: It's c h R I S T A l.
Speaker 1: Okay. We'll have all that linked up here at the
Speaker 1: shows page at the Trauma Therapist podcast dot com. Crystal,
Speaker 1: appreciate you being here and sharing your story. It's very inspiring.
Speaker 1: You are very inspiring. Loved it.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. I appreciate it all right, take care,
Speaker 3: take care,