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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Jewish History Uncensored with Mark Shapiro. This is

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<v Speaker 1>season sixteen, episode thirty one.

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<v Speaker 2>I have so much to do. I try to do

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<v Speaker 2>within fifteen to twenty minutes just responding to people. Some

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<v Speaker 2>people have told me that's their favorite part. Others maybe

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<v Speaker 2>are annoyed because they want to cover more ground. It's

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<v Speaker 2>eon versus the kiyas. I guess you could say from

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<v Speaker 2>yeshivo lingo. But a lot of stuff is building up,

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<v Speaker 2>and at the end we'll probably have to have one

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<v Speaker 2>class just wrapping it up. In fact, I have a

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<v Speaker 2>big correction to do. Mel's going to be happy, but

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<v Speaker 2>thanks to Howard Handler. But I think it's a correction.

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<v Speaker 2>But we'll get to that next week because there's other

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<v Speaker 2>things I want to do, and I think since so

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<v Speaker 2>many of you were with me on the Christmas Eve talk,

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<v Speaker 2>at least I can spend just two minutes on that.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I do this. Why do I make these corrections

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<v Speaker 2>Because I'm a I guess perfectionist, and I want when

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<v Speaker 2>I say it to be perfect, so if I misspeak.

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<v Speaker 2>And I have a lot of sympathy for the politicians

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<v Speaker 2>because when you're just speaking straight, so sometimes you say

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<v Speaker 2>things that are incorrect. So I'd like to clarify you.

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<v Speaker 2>So just and I listened today to the talk. I

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<v Speaker 2>spoke about how we have this concept that even though

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<v Speaker 2>something was permissible in the past, because the idolators did it,

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<v Speaker 2>we can't do it. And I said it like a bumma.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, these altars, they used to be permissible now

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<v Speaker 2>there then they became not. Actually what I meant was

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<v Speaker 2>a which you also offer us. So here you see it.

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<v Speaker 2>For example, the pus it says you shall not sit

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<v Speaker 2>up for yourself a monument, save where it says which

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<v Speaker 2>God hates san so Rashi's quoting the tomorrow what's it's

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<v Speaker 2>a monument of one stone? But then the next Rashi

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<v Speaker 2>it says, God commands you to make an altar of

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<v Speaker 2>not just one stone, but a bunch of stones. Because

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<v Speaker 2>even though if you look into the Hummus you see

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<v Speaker 2>Yakov set up but sea others in ton off. But

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<v Speaker 2>once the idolators started setting it up, as it says,

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<v Speaker 2>it was dear timid Day's in the patriarch, but now

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<v Speaker 2>he hates it since these people, that.

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<v Speaker 3>Is the the the.

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<v Speaker 2>Eight idolators made it a statue for Idolatry, So Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>And this concept, by the way, that things that were

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<v Speaker 2>used to be okay are no longer. That's actually mentioned

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<v Speaker 2>in the Pakaditzkak. He mentions that's the lot of encyclopedia.

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<v Speaker 2>He quotes someone who says that do you know why

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<v Speaker 2>we don't pray with our hands up in the air? Uh?

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<v Speaker 2>For example, I think I have it here. Uh. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>look in embraces in huff bays, impared your doll huff bays.

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<v Speaker 2>What does it say? It says uh Avram said to

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<v Speaker 2>the King of Sadon, I have lifted up my hands

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<v Speaker 2>to the Lord. And also in schmos I found in

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<v Speaker 2>perih tests pussa huff tests mosher Aben who says, uh,

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<v Speaker 2>here look in pussa huff tests a process cup pie lsm,

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<v Speaker 2>I will spread forth my hands.

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<v Speaker 3>Into the Lord. So we don't do that anymore.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't talk him like this with our hands up

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<v Speaker 2>in the air. And the explanation is given because the

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<v Speaker 2>non Jews do it. So that okay, that's the first

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<v Speaker 2>thing I wanted to do one of you, in speaking

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<v Speaker 2>about I said that Jesus had some good things, because

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<v Speaker 2>after all, it comes out of the Jewish environment. So

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<v Speaker 2>it's some good things. And I couldn't remember the expression

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<v Speaker 2>that was used. And what I meant to say was

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<v Speaker 2>what he said. What's is good he says, is not new,

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<v Speaker 2>and what's new is not good. But it actually I

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<v Speaker 2>first found it not said about Jesus. Hunoff Albert in

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<v Speaker 2>his studies on the Missioner says is follows. For those

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<v Speaker 2>of you who know Greek, no German, I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if Howard's with us. He says about isaacah Avi's book,

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<v Speaker 2>he said, hell good, this annoyus nour iss So the

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<v Speaker 2>book has good and new. What's good is not new,

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<v Speaker 2>and what's new is not good. And this is how

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<v Speaker 2>we Fayak of Weinberg says it. In the Three d

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<v Speaker 2>As Volume four, page two twenty eight. He uses the

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<v Speaker 2>same expression. What he came up with novel ideas is

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<v Speaker 2>not good umashu tov and what's good is not uh

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<v Speaker 2>is not it's not something new. But and I in

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<v Speaker 2>speaking of this, we speak about the golden rule. So

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<v Speaker 2>I said the golden rule. It's not if you have

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<v Speaker 2>the gold you make the rules. It's Christians do unto others.

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<v Speaker 2>Now we have Hello says, don't do to others what

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<v Speaker 2>you don't want done to yourself. And Christians always say, well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's good, but it's not as good as a golden rule.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's so many drush us explaining why we have

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<v Speaker 2>the idea, what's paitful to you? Don't do to others?

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<v Speaker 2>Not do it not in the positive sense? And why

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<v Speaker 2>is the explanation is in the gold the negative golden rule.

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<v Speaker 2>But I just threw out that we also have in

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<v Speaker 2>our sources the positive golden rule do unto others. Incidentally,

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<v Speaker 2>Confucius also has the negative golden rule, so we're not alone.

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<v Speaker 2>But I threw out that we have a positive golden

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<v Speaker 2>rule in our sources also. So someone challenged me. I

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<v Speaker 2>like being challenged, but someone challenged me, where do we

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<v Speaker 2>see in our sources golden a positive golden rule? And

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<v Speaker 2>I get the challenge because you know, like I said,

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<v Speaker 2>you can go online all the people explain why, Dafka,

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<v Speaker 2>it's vital to have the negative golden rule, because the

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<v Speaker 2>positive golden rule, how can you ever really what it

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<v Speaker 2>says I have to How can you really love someone

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<v Speaker 2>as much as you love yourself?

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<v Speaker 3>It's impossible.

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<v Speaker 2>That's why they do the negative golden rule. What it

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<v Speaker 2>really means is don't do to others. But I threw

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<v Speaker 2>it out, and so let me tell you what I

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<v Speaker 2>had in my so hold on.

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<v Speaker 3>Here.

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<v Speaker 2>In Hilhos avel, Rabat writes it as avel. In uh

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<v Speaker 2>in chapter thirteen Halacha one, it's talking about how you

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<v Speaker 2>have to visit the sick, come for mourners, et cetera,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. And look at the end of uh Halaha

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<v Speaker 2>one where he says love your neighbor as yourself. This

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<v Speaker 2>charge implies that whatever you would like other people to

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<v Speaker 2>do for you, you should do for your comrade. In

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<v Speaker 2>tar amidstos called verchata harim assey at san la rimslos,

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<v Speaker 2>here the rumbum quotes the principle the positive golden rule.

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<v Speaker 2>And obviously the rumbam is part of our tradition. So

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<v Speaker 2>if you look in hilhost A a l chapter fourteen,

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<v Speaker 2>verse one, you see the rabam. And so where does

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<v Speaker 2>Ramum get this the rumbum? Usually he doesn't make things

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<v Speaker 2>up like this. Rahert Sog says he must have had

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<v Speaker 2>a rabbinic so, which we don't have because the standard

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<v Speaker 2>rabbinic sources they have to raff They give the negative

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<v Speaker 2>golden rule, and that's where you get all the drushes

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<v Speaker 2>about why the negative rule golden rule is better than

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<v Speaker 2>the positive, but the real mom posts they have to

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<v Speaker 2>and he quotes the positive golden rule, so he must

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<v Speaker 2>have had some sort of madrashic texts that so uh

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<v Speaker 2>for the one who challenged me, where do we have

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<v Speaker 2>a positive golden rule? I can't show you on hazab

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<v Speaker 2>and I show you the rumbam and that's in our tradition.

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<v Speaker 2>That's basically just as good. Just for those who weren't

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<v Speaker 2>with us Thursday Night, Robbie Hoodertz Hanking. If you recall

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<v Speaker 2>we had a number of to vote by him at

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning of our series. We're in class thirty one now,

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<v Speaker 2>but if you go back to classes one through ten,

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<v Speaker 2>he's dealt with him a lot. He passed away and

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<v Speaker 2>you can read about all sorts of uh interest and

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<v Speaker 2>a very interesting piece on Layerhouse. Look, he's been ill

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<v Speaker 2>for the last few years and it hasn't he wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>able to contribute. Next week, hopefully I will read you

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<v Speaker 2>something that he called my attention to and said I

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<v Speaker 2>would like it, something he wrote. I'll share it with

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<v Speaker 2>you hopefully next week, and but Rebbie David Spurling, I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's I think that's the name. Has a very

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<v Speaker 2>nice piece in layerhouse. I highly recommend it. Okay, A

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<v Speaker 2>couple more things. A rafa in Israel. He heard the

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<v Speaker 2>talk or we watched the talk that I said ram

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<v Speaker 2>we spoke ram as and ra meat that the women

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<v Speaker 2>use this title. They turned it into ra meat. And

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<v Speaker 2>he's even though it's an abbreviation, not to mention the diminutive.

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<v Speaker 2>He says, he's in the idea, or he's been the

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<v Speaker 2>last few years. He says the idea. He says, even

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<v Speaker 2>though it's incorrect. I don't know why he says incorrect.

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<v Speaker 2>If ISRAELI is toady, do what it's not incorrect. He

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<v Speaker 2>gave me a bunch of examples. Here are three examples

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<v Speaker 2>where Russia k vote in Israel and the Ideaf have

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<v Speaker 2>become they for women. They had the tough ending. So

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<v Speaker 2>for example, mefa cage aino katsin my shack. I guess

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<v Speaker 2>I had pronounced it. So if it's a woman, it's

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<v Speaker 2>ma shakite. And he have a few other examples, and

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<v Speaker 2>I guess the diminutive it's not uh. They don't. It

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't imply diminutive like we said, cough Copete and Sasaki,

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<v Speaker 2>et cetera. Daniel maybe Daniel Sperling. Thank you, Howard. The

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<v Speaker 2>check it out on their house. Okay, they forty already.

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<v Speaker 2>I promised you this, and I'm going to get to it.

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<v Speaker 2>But I do also have to deal with what I

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<v Speaker 2>said Mike, uh, his issue about tom Wood. But let

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<v Speaker 2>me just read this quickly. We have someone who lives

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<v Speaker 2>in Israel, although I think he might call it the

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<v Speaker 2>Zionist state, not Israel, and he's been listening to us

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<v Speaker 2>for many, many years, and he he's not sometmer. Is

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<v Speaker 2>there the quasi Zionist the ones that does. But I

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<v Speaker 2>spoke if you were called about Rabbie Greenbutt and that

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<v Speaker 2>he fought in there y'asu, and I mentioned that he

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<v Speaker 2>I asked it, did you see any killings? He said not.

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<v Speaker 2>I mentioned Bagan denies that there is a massacre, but

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<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming there was a master. I mean, that's uh,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the Israeli authority, the Jewish agency authorities acknowledged this.

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<v Speaker 2>And I said, so that's the massacre. We can be

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<v Speaker 2>able to compare that has quoted me one versus all

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<v Speaker 2>the massacres from the other side. And obviously it's not

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<v Speaker 2>just Scuscia cial and there's many and look he continues

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<v Speaker 2>to our day, Yeah, there have been plenty of massacres.

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<v Speaker 2>If you want to get your innate yourself a square

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<v Speaker 2>named after you in Ramaala or something, killing one, two

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<v Speaker 2>or three is not enough. You have to, like let

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<v Speaker 2>off Obama and Sparrow or something, you killed ten. Then

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<v Speaker 2>you'll get your your name and lights and everything. So

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<v Speaker 2>what he writes to me is that, uh, that's only

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<v Speaker 2>one of the massacres, and he mentions a couple others,

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<v Speaker 2>a village da Wa Yema in which there was it

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<v Speaker 2>seems uh no reason to doubt it that the number

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<v Speaker 2>of people uh innocence were executed. He quotes cases of

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of cases of rape that happened in forty

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<v Speaker 2>eight war. This is all documented by Benny Morris and

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<v Speaker 2>his book and Terrible Things done in the nineteen forty

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<v Speaker 2>eight war. So all I would say is is follows.

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<v Speaker 2>First of all here a sound. First of all, war,

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<v Speaker 2>as they say, is hell, and every war has had

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<v Speaker 2>terrible things. If you what's the most just war, you

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<v Speaker 2>can imagine the war of the allies against the Nazis,

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<v Speaker 2>and yet there were war crimes carried out by American soldiers,

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<v Speaker 2>by British soldiers, by French sols, obviously by Soviet soldiers.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean the amount of rapes that went on with that.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't feel I need to defend blindly if

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<v Speaker 2>the evidence is there, and Benny Morris in his book

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen forty eight and others has documented there's no it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't just Darius, you know, though that was the biggest.

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<v Speaker 2>There was other things, and there were there was all

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<v Speaker 2>sorts of rapes and things that were not proper. We

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<v Speaker 2>don't need to defend that that that's wrong, and they

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<v Speaker 2>had things happen in war, and I do believe that

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<v Speaker 2>the other side it's worse. But this doesn't undermine I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>the person who writes to us referst to in October

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<v Speaker 2>the nineteen forty eight, the Zionist militia. I mean, we're here,

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<v Speaker 2>we do with an idea for already, but I don't.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, all this talk about bad things, that doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>undermine the justice of the cause anymore than the justice

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<v Speaker 2>of the cause against the Nazis was undermined because that

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<v Speaker 2>you had soldiers who did things that are improper, and

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<v Speaker 2>so the you don't undermine Zionism by pointing out that

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<v Speaker 2>you had soldiers who did to evil things and wrong things.

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<v Speaker 2>You're going to have that in every war. That's my

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<v Speaker 2>only response I can say to the person who wrote

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<v Speaker 2>this about I can have a list, double triple as

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<v Speaker 2>long as what the Arabs did. So that's all I

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<v Speaker 2>would say. And I also there's one more point. I

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<v Speaker 2>think people forget it. The actions of terrorism carried out

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<v Speaker 2>you're good and and these were terrorism. In some cases

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<v Speaker 2>they were terrorism against innocence and soldiers or anything. These

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<v Speaker 2>were never advocated by the great rabbis we have, These

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<v Speaker 2>were condemned. These and I don't feel we need to

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<v Speaker 2>defend some of these things. Bombs, hand grenades thrown into

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<v Speaker 2>crowded groups, which happened in the thirties in particular. These

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<v Speaker 2>are wrong and we're not. I don't think any of

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<v Speaker 2>us say that we're perfect and most perfect. The wars,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, were fought differently. Then we can't be anachronistic.

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<v Speaker 2>People drop bombs and civilians that's what they did. But

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<v Speaker 2>we can acknowledge my correspondence. I say to you that

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<v Speaker 2>there were things that were done which were improper. And

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<v Speaker 2>what I can tell you also is that if right now,

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<v Speaker 2>when Israeli were to go into an arid village and

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<v Speaker 2>shoot up three people everyone, we'd all be shocked. And

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<v Speaker 2>yet if it happens the other way, they hand out candy.

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<v Speaker 2>So I you know the idea that that there's a

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<v Speaker 2>that there's an equivalence here. And also when it comes

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<v Speaker 2>to Marie, I have no Marie are a bunch of Marxists.

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<v Speaker 2>Basically you can know about were they were pro Soviet

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<v Speaker 2>after the founding of the state. Lechi was a pro

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<v Speaker 2>Soviet organization. Chamir did sort of like a double and

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<v Speaker 2>about face on that. But these are people with many

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<v Speaker 2>of these people and including in their good I don't

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<v Speaker 2>have por values. The Lech was pro Soviet and so

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<v Speaker 2>they're not our heroes. So we can acknowledge there were

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<v Speaker 2>some bad things there. But this doesn't by any means

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<v Speaker 2>create an equivalents. And I don't want to play the

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<v Speaker 2>game of citing all the terrible things that because, like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, you can cite terrible things that American soldiers

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<v Speaker 2>did and French soldiers did against the Nazis, what does

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<v Speaker 2>that show you chose that people are human and they

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<v Speaker 2>do and they do bad things. That's all I would say.

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<v Speaker 2>And I encourage everyone to read Benny Morris's book. Benny

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<v Speaker 2>Morris's had left this who became a right winger even

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<v Speaker 2>in he even believes that the forty eight and even

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<v Speaker 2>later there should have been complete separation of citizens, ause

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<v Speaker 2>it would have had to peace in the end, so expulsion.

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<v Speaker 2>But he's an honest historian, and he some of the

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<v Speaker 2>stuff he writes about it is very difficult to read.

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<v Speaker 2>But okay, I'm gonna leave for next week something not

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<v Speaker 2>sent me and some other stuff about Trump. I just

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<v Speaker 2>want to end with one more thing before we again,

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<v Speaker 2>because I promise. Oh, and I do have to say,

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<v Speaker 2>I apologize to well thinking about doctorates, I apologize to

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<v Speaker 2>read Biselli Achik. Here's his doctoral dissertation. Unlike the others

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<v Speaker 2>I said, I think it was like eighty pages. Lo,

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<v Speaker 2>and behold it's not. It's a hundred and what is it?

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<v Speaker 2>One hundred and ten pages, so a little bit bigger,

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<v Speaker 2>but again not the size of a doctor dissertation that

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<v Speaker 2>today you'd expect in America or in Germany for that matter.

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<v Speaker 2>Here it is. Here's the if you go to the

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<v Speaker 2>Wikipedia page or for by cell of a Chick, you

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<v Speaker 2>can find what I discovered in East Berlin before it

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<v Speaker 2>was West Berlin from myself. So me and the last

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<v Speaker 2>thing I want to speak about and then we'll go

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<v Speaker 2>right into it is that I I and this really

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<v Speaker 2>continues with what we did last class, because we're going

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<v Speaker 2>to get toakha couple Schwarts. For those who want to

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<v Speaker 2>see the great couple of Schwartz, here he is again.

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<v Speaker 2>I showed you the picture of him speaking before them

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<v Speaker 2>groups from the twenty first of kiss Lev which was

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<v Speaker 2>three weeks ago or something like that, and no one

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<v Speaker 2>had masks. And someone said, well they all sot Mao

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<v Speaker 2>has a immunity, but apparently not everyone because the Rebbie

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<v Speaker 2>in Williamsburg they have two rebbies. He got COVID this week.

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<v Speaker 2>So what can I tell you?

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<v Speaker 1>But he he.

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<v Speaker 2>We spoke about it a couple of strange stories in

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<v Speaker 2>the tomorrow and I gave my theory that this maybe

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<v Speaker 2>was not intended for everyone to see, that this is

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<v Speaker 2>like an internal book from rabbis to other rabbis, so

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<v Speaker 2>they can criticize other rabbis in a way that surely

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<v Speaker 2>not for ours to hear, and that that explains why

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<v Speaker 2>some of these unusual passages. So I was challenged by

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<v Speaker 2>a night the Talmud is it's supposed to be for everyone.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm making a seam likeg it's only for elites. So

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<v Speaker 2>let me just say a few words about this and

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<v Speaker 2>I well, first of all, when when various godobling were

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<v Speaker 2>asked about translating the Talmwood, many of them opposed it.

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<v Speaker 2>Then many of them, in particular when it came to

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<v Speaker 2>the adot, said not to because the masses are not

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to see this. Now, they were referring in particular

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<v Speaker 2>to passages that dealt with anthropomorphism, god wearing to fill

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<v Speaker 2>in that sort of thing. But I think it's the

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<v Speaker 2>same idea that the masses would not be able to

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<v Speaker 2>understand these agadot, and therefore it's not for them. So

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<v Speaker 2>this isn't really my hiddish. The idea I just applied.

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<v Speaker 2>I just extended a little to other areas. But what

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<v Speaker 2>do I mean when I say the Talmwood is obviously

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<v Speaker 2>everyone started with Talmud. In fact, you can see sources

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<v Speaker 2>that tell you we'll see the rama minutes and more

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<v Speaker 2>others that you have to teach your children. Viewer of law,

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<v Speaker 2>you have to teach him gamara. That's not what we're

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<v Speaker 2>dealing with. Obviously, you have to teach everyone has to

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<v Speaker 2>be talking tomorrow. The question is what happens to the

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<v Speaker 2>people who don't continue in the gamara and then they

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<v Speaker 2>they they're educate, their gamora education remains what it was. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>in Europe, it would be when you're twelve years old,

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<v Speaker 2>because that's basically when you finished later and went to work. Obviously,

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<v Speaker 2>everyone has to be given the opportunity to learn gamora

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<v Speaker 2>because that's really how you enter into intellectual Judaism, the

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<v Speaker 2>whole tradition. But historically that was only for the elites.

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<v Speaker 2>What we have in modern times is a popularization of

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<v Speaker 2>tom Woods study, which we never had before. It didn't

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<v Speaker 2>start with art scroll. Don't forget Rabbi Steinzeltz's translation had

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<v Speaker 2>the huskma of Ramosha fine steam. And not only that,

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<v Speaker 2>let me share with you something that people don't even realize.

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<v Speaker 2>This popularization began in the nineteenth century. Even well, you

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<v Speaker 2>had the translation of Pinner of the Talmud with the

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<v Speaker 2>hustband suffer for gave an approbation for here you see

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00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:06.680
<v Speaker 2>a book Ha Madrich, which appears in the early part

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<v Speaker 2>of well the early part of the twentieth century. This

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<v Speaker 2>is basically like a copy of Gamara, and you can

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<v Speaker 2>see it here. It's so this is what the pages

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00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:20.400
<v Speaker 2>look like. You have the the Gamara and it's it's

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00:19:20.440 --> 00:19:23.960
<v Speaker 2>basically a raw It's like Shrinze. So you might say, well,

347
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<v Speaker 2>why is who says this is significant?

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<v Speaker 3>Look?

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<v Speaker 2>Who uh gave the approbations for this? Well, first of

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<v Speaker 2>all it begins the first page of Vitil Inspector of

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<v Speaker 2>Coveno and some Sparta crabbis, and then you continue. It

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00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:42.400
<v Speaker 2>took a while they were where is it? Have it here?

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<v Speaker 3>Ah?

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<v Speaker 2>The uh?

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<v Speaker 3>There are other husk.

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<v Speaker 2>You see of all these rabbis printed, because there was

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<v Speaker 2>a second edition, and among them you have here Remo Liver.

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<v Speaker 2>You see down here real health Deeseimer. So you did

359
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<v Speaker 2>have popularization of the tone. What have you have people

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<v Speaker 2>who believed that we should encourage the masses to learn

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<v Speaker 2>and make it easier for them, although these masses are

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<v Speaker 2>not even the bar masses, because at least they can

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<v Speaker 2>read Hebrew. However, there also was a different tradition. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>not forget what the Rombum says. The Rombum says in

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<v Speaker 2>the introduction of the Mission too, there is here here.

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<v Speaker 3>What does he say?

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<v Speaker 2>He says that when you when you study that when

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<v Speaker 2>he wrote this book, the Mission Tara, a person should

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<v Speaker 2>first study the original law, and then study this text,

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<v Speaker 2>the Mission Tara, and comprehend the entire or all firm

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<v Speaker 2>it without having to study any other text. So the

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<v Speaker 2>rom Bum tells you that for the typical person, you

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<v Speaker 2>won't need to study anything other than the Mission of

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<v Speaker 2>Tora and the Torah itself, Ummish, you don't need to

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<v Speaker 2>learn Gamara? So who needs to learn gamarra? Obviously the

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<v Speaker 2>rom bumming knowledges that to tell me Hami the big

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<v Speaker 2>people need to learn because any of the pasta Shai

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<v Speaker 2>was But the Rambum's already telling you that the average

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<v Speaker 2>person is not going to need to learn gamar And

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<v Speaker 2>now how this stims with what we're going to see

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<v Speaker 2>in the rambamb himself in a second, we'll see. Furthermore,

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<v Speaker 2>we know that Satahadrek tells you that before Mayor Biluffi

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<v Speaker 2>and Spain who started writing commentaries, they only study the

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<v Speaker 2>Riff And I say, only the average people to tell

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<v Speaker 2>me Jamim only studied the riff. Only the super people

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<v Speaker 2>would study otherwise, So we see this as a tradition.

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<v Speaker 2>And now I want to read you something from Vadiosa

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<v Speaker 2>appears in his response in the Cavadas, volume six, number

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<v Speaker 2>fifty two. It's actually summarized by his grandson. You can

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00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:48.319
<v Speaker 2>just google this she or Daffiomi or Vadiosif. And here's

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00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:51.759
<v Speaker 2>the question. If someone learns every day at dafiomi Shir,

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<v Speaker 2>does he fulfill his obligation of learning tone every day?

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<v Speaker 2>And he begins by citing the gamara, which we'll see

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<v Speaker 2>from the rambum in a minute, that everyone should split

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<v Speaker 2>their day into three, which is Mikra, Mishna and talmud

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<v Speaker 2>and the ram inside in the second. But then he

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<v Speaker 2>goes on to say that the the Ahronim doubt the

398
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<v Speaker 2>dealt with this, and he quotes the shop. You're not

399
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:19.279
<v Speaker 2>gonna believe me, but here here it is. It's in

400
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:23.119
<v Speaker 2>the shop and you're a day race memvov and it's

401
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<v Speaker 2>Simon hey. The shot quotes the drisha. He says, some

402
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:36.079
<v Speaker 2>bala bats him every day learned Gamara rashu tosos the

403
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<v Speaker 2>low sharp post game. They don't warn any halasa, and

404
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<v Speaker 2>then he goes on they bring a proof for this.

405
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<v Speaker 2>Then if you learn halafa every day, move to the

406
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<v Speaker 2>b Olamhaba. And but then he goes on lee near

407
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<v Speaker 2>y Sifria post scheme Dina Taraka, Moharif and Wai rush

408
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<v Speaker 2>the ze Karatar, saying he says that we I think

409
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<v Speaker 2>you have to learn the halafas halfa far they call

410
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<v Speaker 2>believe in Gamara perishosis. He says, you don't fulfill the

411
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<v Speaker 2>midst of learning terror if you just learn Gamara Rashi

412
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<v Speaker 2>and tostiv Us, there's no practical hallafa thing there. And

413
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<v Speaker 2>therefore vad Yosef concludes, if if you're able to, you

414
00:23:15.799 --> 00:23:18.880
<v Speaker 2>should learn every day Daffyomi and also share in halaha.

415
00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:24.480
<v Speaker 2>But if you only have time for one share, oh, wellhalaka,

416
00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:28.960
<v Speaker 2>you shall learn halafa king. But if you only can

417
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:31.920
<v Speaker 2>learn one, you should do halaha. Now it's obvious why

418
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:35.200
<v Speaker 2>this won't work, because Hala for most people is dry

419
00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:39.599
<v Speaker 2>and and Daffioli has become a whole social experience and

420
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:43.680
<v Speaker 2>it gives strength to Orthodoxy. But RACHAMAVADYOSIV says he doesn't

421
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:45.480
<v Speaker 2>like it. He thinks that if you can only learn one.

422
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:48.640
<v Speaker 2>Shear it should be halasa, because that's not for you

423
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:50.200
<v Speaker 2>to learn tomorrow. If you only have one, you should

424
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:52.359
<v Speaker 2>una if you have time for both. But obviously, like

425
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:54.960
<v Speaker 2>you said, it doesn't work. And Daffyomi is able to

426
00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:58.000
<v Speaker 2>inspire people and give them something which Alaka couldn't, and

427
00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:00.799
<v Speaker 2>Uh in the lithuani Yeshiva world would not follow over

428
00:24:01.279 --> 00:24:04.400
<v Speaker 2>values approach. They obviously believe everyone who can should wear

429
00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:04.960
<v Speaker 2>in goamorrow.

430
00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:05.480
<v Speaker 3>What I.

431
00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.240
<v Speaker 2>Just want to conclude with though, well let me show

432
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:13.279
<v Speaker 2>you the tomorrow so that you see what I'm talking

433
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:17.160
<v Speaker 2>about here it's it's an amazing run bomb. Here he says,

434
00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:21.480
<v Speaker 2>as follows. So here the rum mom says a person,

435
00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:22.960
<v Speaker 2>this is from the gamar, can you shoot? You have

436
00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:25.079
<v Speaker 2>to divide your study time to three. One third should

437
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.480
<v Speaker 2>be the written law, one third ural law, and one

438
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:32.680
<v Speaker 2>third conceptualizing. So SoRs things like that, and drum says

439
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:34.839
<v Speaker 2>in twelve, how is this express if you're a worker

440
00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:37.680
<v Speaker 2>three hours a day in work and nine hours a

441
00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:40.880
<v Speaker 2>day in tourist study. Many people have commented today we'd

442
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:44.319
<v Speaker 2>be happy if people who are workers spend nine hours

443
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.720
<v Speaker 2>working in three hours learning. But he says three so

444
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:49.880
<v Speaker 2>you're supposed to spend three hours reading the written law,

445
00:24:49.960 --> 00:24:53.079
<v Speaker 2>three of the ural law and three of scars, et cetera.

446
00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:57.160
<v Speaker 2>And then later when you're advanced, you can really just

447
00:24:57.240 --> 00:24:59.519
<v Speaker 2>focus on gamorrow itself. You don't even need to spend

448
00:25:00.039 --> 00:25:02.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm really on the written to our regis occasionally. The

449
00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:05.559
<v Speaker 2>point is, though, that this is for people who are

450
00:25:05.559 --> 00:25:09.000
<v Speaker 2>already advanced. What I was speaking about was people who

451
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:11.920
<v Speaker 2>never made it for whatever reason. So you do with

452
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.160
<v Speaker 2>a fifty five year old and you'll have time to

453
00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:16.319
<v Speaker 2>learn an hour a day, what should you do? I

454
00:25:16.400 --> 00:25:19.200
<v Speaker 2>think in the Yeshiva world you should learn gamar, and

455
00:25:19.279 --> 00:25:23.559
<v Speaker 2>that's the American approach. But others have a different approach.

456
00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:26.039
<v Speaker 2>And I'll end with an example of this.

457
00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:28.079
<v Speaker 3>Here.

458
00:25:28.119 --> 00:25:30.960
<v Speaker 2>I have a little book here. This is a book

459
00:25:31.000 --> 00:25:34.079
<v Speaker 2>that it's an attack here published by smart types all

460
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:38.400
<v Speaker 2>against art scroll popularization. And there's an article and also

461
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:40.720
<v Speaker 2>on the journal or you, sirall, if you look in

462
00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.920
<v Speaker 2>volume fifty, there's an article there by a Rabbi MORTEHAILI Guerrillik.

463
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.240
<v Speaker 2>He's rubed by garlk of yu Son, and he goes

464
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:51.519
<v Speaker 2>off into how the whole idea of that the masses

465
00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:53.880
<v Speaker 2>are not supposed to learn. He says, in the earlier

466
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:57.480
<v Speaker 2>years there was a fever for riff lere Mishnayas Gabran Yakov,

467
00:25:58.279 --> 00:26:00.880
<v Speaker 2>and that's what they should do. Even he says Daffi

468
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.440
<v Speaker 2>only to have its time only agreed with it because

469
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:05.599
<v Speaker 2>of the musculium and the reformers, And it was just

470
00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:08.519
<v Speaker 2>that the people would get a sense that Talmud is

471
00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:12.119
<v Speaker 2>so important, but not really that they should Rabehaian Rappaport

472
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:14.359
<v Speaker 2>has a very long response to this, This idea of

473
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.680
<v Speaker 2>this elitist idea to talmut is only for the elites.

474
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:20.240
<v Speaker 2>So well even at that, But that's what I meant,

475
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Mike when I said this idea had something that I

476
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:28.240
<v Speaker 2>think it's clear that many people do share this idea

477
00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:33.079
<v Speaker 2>that Talmud study is not for the masses, that everyone

478
00:26:33.160 --> 00:26:37.079
<v Speaker 2>should enter. We hope that everyone becomes a tumultus or reality.

479
00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:39.720
<v Speaker 2>It's not going to happen in there. For what are

480
00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:41.599
<v Speaker 2>you supposed to do with your time? In the run bomb,

481
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.160
<v Speaker 2>there is speaking about someone who's able to learn. But

482
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:46.720
<v Speaker 2>if you're not able to learn, what's better to sit

483
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:49.880
<v Speaker 2>with a or to sit with the You know, this

484
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.720
<v Speaker 2>was unimaginable before our day because we didn't have English commerce.

485
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:56.960
<v Speaker 2>So you have many people who are even the book

486
00:26:57.039 --> 00:27:00.519
<v Speaker 2>I showed you the Madrich, a bunch of Hungarians came

487
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.920
<v Speaker 2>out opposing this popularization of the Talmud. But I have

488
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:07.000
<v Speaker 2>to say that with all art, stroke can be supported

489
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:09.119
<v Speaker 2>because if you look at the Godoli who gave the

490
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:12.160
<v Speaker 2>Huskama to the bo Camadrich, you see that these were

491
00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:15.400
<v Speaker 2>the greatest of Lithoeni. You don't have the Hungarians there,

492
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:17.880
<v Speaker 2>but you have the lifshore world, you have the started world,

493
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:21.680
<v Speaker 2>and it's basically the first steinsold. So we I think

494
00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:24.039
<v Speaker 2>that's the mainstream tradition today. It doesn't take away from

495
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.559
<v Speaker 2>the fact what I said, however, that I do think

496
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:28.920
<v Speaker 2>that some of these stories in the Talmud, like were

497
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:35.039
<v Speaker 2>never meant for everyone to sing. Remember the riff doesn't

498
00:27:35.039 --> 00:27:38.160
<v Speaker 2>have a gun ta, he only has a lot. Okay, everyone,

499
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:40.839
<v Speaker 2>we'll get to the other thing next week. Let us continue.

500
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:52.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, move my books over here. I'm gonna show

501
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:59.519
<v Speaker 2>you some great stuff today. Incidentally, I don't know if

502
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:03.200
<v Speaker 2>any of you know this book. This is the work

503
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:05.240
<v Speaker 2>of the Rumbum, at least we think it's the Rambum

504
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.960
<v Speaker 2>and Rebi Retsabi has a commentary on it. He deals

505
00:28:09.079 --> 00:28:12.480
<v Speaker 2>with the names of God and Sukhim, and he thinks

506
00:28:12.519 --> 00:28:17.160
<v Speaker 2>that Bethel is a holy name. I wasn't able. I

507
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:22.039
<v Speaker 2>was looking and looking find any explicit hector to erase

508
00:28:22.119 --> 00:28:24.400
<v Speaker 2>God's name. This goes back to last week when it's

509
00:28:24.400 --> 00:28:28.400
<v Speaker 2>written in transliteration that is a Hebrew name in English characters.

510
00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:31.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm thinking, maybe you could say Bethel. You don't have

511
00:28:31.839 --> 00:28:35.039
<v Speaker 2>in mind God's name, you haven't mind the synagogue. So

512
00:28:35.119 --> 00:28:37.680
<v Speaker 2>I guess maybe that's the hector. Thank you Barrie late

513
00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:40.440
<v Speaker 2>for sending me that the the author of the Kitzer

514
00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:44.680
<v Speaker 2>the he wrote a book Bushkasa Sofa. He does say

515
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:48.799
<v Speaker 2>that you can't say all he can't write it, and

516
00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:53.880
<v Speaker 2>he quotes of Zieberstein. So unless you come over with

517
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:57.039
<v Speaker 2>the hector that Bethel doesn't refer to God, it just

518
00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:00.440
<v Speaker 2>revers to the place. I think it's a problem, but

519
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:03.319
<v Speaker 2>we'll leave that. We're in the middle of now where

520
00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:08.400
<v Speaker 2>I a couple of shorts. I introduced you to him

521
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:11.200
<v Speaker 2>last class, and I want to now we're gonna deal

522
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:16.519
<v Speaker 2>with something with Yako Kamenetski. Yakov Komenetsky. He really was

523
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:21.039
<v Speaker 2>very unusual. He wasn't he was a Lithuanian roseshiva, U

524
00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:24.200
<v Speaker 2>a great roseshiva. But all you have to do is

525
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:28.279
<v Speaker 2>look at his commentary on and Maslakov and you see

526
00:29:28.319 --> 00:29:32.240
<v Speaker 2>that he's not a typical uh Lithuania torrescat or the

527
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:34.880
<v Speaker 2>stress on Dick Dook on Trump and everything like that.

528
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:36.960
<v Speaker 2>In fact, let me show you something now that will

529
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:41.599
<v Speaker 2>blow you away. I mentioned it in Limits of Orthodoxology.

530
00:29:41.720 --> 00:29:44.720
<v Speaker 2>But uh, for those who don't remember, don't uh, I'm

531
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:47.960
<v Speaker 2>gonna show you something. He has this great, great commentary.

532
00:29:50.680 --> 00:29:53.079
<v Speaker 2>Just I'm just giving you as an example of one

533
00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:56.119
<v Speaker 2>example of how unusual he is. You will never find

534
00:29:56.160 --> 00:30:00.319
<v Speaker 2>anything like this in you know the uh Gadoli worried

535
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:04.119
<v Speaker 2>about humish, certainly from Lithuanian world. The Pussak says in

536
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:10.279
<v Speaker 2>uh perakhoff luff gimmel in vaikra It says you should

537
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:15.519
<v Speaker 2>not go don't uh, don't follow the practices of the

538
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:20.160
<v Speaker 2>non Jews and uh Rebe Kamenski points out that when

539
00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:23.799
<v Speaker 2>the Rambam cites this Pussok in the Missionatara, what does

540
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:28.440
<v Speaker 2>he called for? Cited as hukos hog you not how go?

541
00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:29.039
<v Speaker 3>How go you?

542
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:32.640
<v Speaker 2>So he goes on he discusses this and then he

543
00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.319
<v Speaker 2>comes to the end. Here he says that I'll just

544
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:40.000
<v Speaker 2>read it to you the fourth half on I saw

545
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:44.119
<v Speaker 2>in the addition of thea from which have the notes

546
00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:48.960
<v Speaker 2>from kiss te Kim and who put this together Huff Dollard, Ginsburg, London,

547
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:50.759
<v Speaker 2>nineteen oh nine. We'll get back to this in a

548
00:30:50.799 --> 00:30:52.319
<v Speaker 2>second Shahevi Nuska.

549
00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:53.079
<v Speaker 3>He brought a.

550
00:30:54.880 --> 00:31:00.240
<v Speaker 2>Source in from the Samaritan Hummish that it does how

551
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:05.720
<v Speaker 2>you and also combat Targooming, which seemed to have the

552
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:09.359
<v Speaker 2>word how go you? Not how going? As the text

553
00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:12.720
<v Speaker 2>there the why should can't I accustom safer Rambam, And

554
00:31:12.759 --> 00:31:16.440
<v Speaker 2>he's saying, maybe the Rambam's text was different than our

555
00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:19.799
<v Speaker 2>Tara text and had the word go you, how go you?

556
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Not hag you? That's pretty incredible to make that sort

557
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:29.440
<v Speaker 2>of insight. What he's referring to is this book ramiche

558
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:37.400
<v Speaker 2>kumche Tora. Here's the English title page were Latin by C. A. Ginsburg,

559
00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:41.319
<v Speaker 2>which has the different notes. Here's the the page we're

560
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:46.920
<v Speaker 2>looking at. So in here it is plus twenty three.

561
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:50.440
<v Speaker 2>You see, so if you go down to the bottom

562
00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:55.519
<v Speaker 2>in the note here verse twenty three, it says other

563
00:31:55.559 --> 00:31:57.799
<v Speaker 2>books have, How go you and what does he give

564
00:31:57.799 --> 00:32:02.279
<v Speaker 2>an example? Well, that's a manuscript. Then Kretschen is the

565
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:08.799
<v Speaker 2>m and then this is the Sivim, the Seituagint and uncles.

566
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:14.039
<v Speaker 2>This is a critical pentitude lower criticism, and Rabayaka of

567
00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:15.400
<v Speaker 2>Kamenetski is using it.

568
00:32:17.400 --> 00:32:20.480
<v Speaker 3>Not only is he using it, but uh, do you

569
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:22.119
<v Speaker 3>know who C. D. Ginsburg is?

570
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:25.039
<v Speaker 2>A second? I think I have where did I have it? Here? Around?

571
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:28.559
<v Speaker 3>And and and he knew this as well too. Uh,

572
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:32.200
<v Speaker 3>this is what I think.

573
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:36.759
<v Speaker 2>Again, I D pushed you out a mistake here?

574
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:38.240
<v Speaker 3>Who is C. D.

575
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Ginsburg? His name is Christian David Ginsburg. He's an apostate

576
00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:46.279
<v Speaker 2>who was an experta. So here we have Ravaka of

577
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Kamenetski offering that perhaps the Rombums version of the Torah

578
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:56.480
<v Speaker 2>is different than ours, because because he cites the Pustle differently,

579
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.799
<v Speaker 2>and maybe he had the version that's preserved in the Samaritan,

580
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.759
<v Speaker 2>the Tuk and the different Targo meme. And had Dosranko

581
00:33:02.839 --> 00:33:05.759
<v Speaker 2>Fromski knows this. He knows this because he's using a tanach,

582
00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:10.160
<v Speaker 2>which is a critical tanah, you know, lower criticism, providing

583
00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:14.839
<v Speaker 2>alternate texts put together by a Mashulman named Christian David Ginsberg.

584
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:17.079
<v Speaker 2>That is not the sort of thing that the typical

585
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:20.240
<v Speaker 2>roast yeshiva is due. I do have to say, however,

586
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:27.640
<v Speaker 2>that it's it's unfortunate that Rivyakov fell into this trap

587
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:31.960
<v Speaker 2>here because the rumbumb doesn't have that at all. If

588
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:35.559
<v Speaker 2>you look in the good rom bombs, which I guess

589
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:39.279
<v Speaker 2>weren't around his day, for example, the the Mishnatura of

590
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:44.640
<v Speaker 2>the Franco edition, you see that it's the same puss Hugoi.

591
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:48.160
<v Speaker 2>It's not hog And that's all the different to the

592
00:33:48.279 --> 00:33:52.960
<v Speaker 2>important text of manuscripts. In fact, the famous one that

593
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:55.200
<v Speaker 2>has the rahmbam. I'll show you right now his signature

594
00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:57.720
<v Speaker 2>at the end of it. The Oxford manuscript that also

595
00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:01.680
<v Speaker 2>has AGOI. So yes, we have texts that have am,

596
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:04.920
<v Speaker 2>but that's not what it was before the rumba. Here here,

597
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.160
<v Speaker 2>I have a beautiful volume here and you see it here.

598
00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:11.360
<v Speaker 2>This is it's a text. It's the This is the

599
00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:15.360
<v Speaker 2>text which has the rumbum. I'll show you his yeah,

600
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:17.760
<v Speaker 2>hold it up.

601
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:17.840
<v Speaker 3>For you.

602
00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Right right, Who got miss free on the motion? This

603
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:37.119
<v Speaker 2>is a a reproduction of that's safer Mada and save

604
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:40.920
<v Speaker 2>for Alva of the manuscript. The Ramam didn't write the manuscript,

605
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:45.000
<v Speaker 2>but he says it came from it was copied from

606
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:48.760
<v Speaker 2>his own manuscript. And that's we have more signatures than

607
00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:54.639
<v Speaker 2>the rumbum. But that's the that's the famous one. Okay.

608
00:34:57.039 --> 00:34:59.679
<v Speaker 2>So why do I mentioned this about Ryaka Kamenetski because

609
00:34:59.719 --> 00:35:04.639
<v Speaker 2>ri he says an amazing thing, which like how thet

610
00:35:04.679 --> 00:35:07.039
<v Speaker 2>he is going to deal with We have a puzzle

611
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:15.840
<v Speaker 2>in devartment to our where we hear Deuteronomy chapter four,

612
00:35:16.480 --> 00:35:18.480
<v Speaker 2>verse nineteen. What do you make of this puzzle? Care

613
00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:22.960
<v Speaker 2>that says, and let's now lift up thine eyes into heaven,

614
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:24.719
<v Speaker 2>and when you see the sun and the moon and

615
00:35:24.800 --> 00:35:27.320
<v Speaker 2>the stars, even all the hosts of heaven, you be

616
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.599
<v Speaker 2>drawn away and worship them and serve them, which the

617
00:35:30.679 --> 00:35:33.159
<v Speaker 2>Lord thy God has allotted into all the people's under

618
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:35.360
<v Speaker 2>the whole heaven. And he's gonna say, you can't do that.

619
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:37.760
<v Speaker 2>What do you mean God has allotted unto all the

620
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:41.920
<v Speaker 2>people that they should worship them. That means that they're

621
00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:43.679
<v Speaker 2>allowed to do this. What does it mean God gave

622
00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:48.559
<v Speaker 2>it to them? If you look in Rashi, Rashi explains, well,

623
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:51.880
<v Speaker 2>God sort of gave it to them. They can make

624
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:53.840
<v Speaker 2>a mistake on it and he doesn't care. They can

625
00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:56.840
<v Speaker 2>worship idolatry. But if you look in the Rashbomb and

626
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:00.559
<v Speaker 2>other commentaries, what they seem to be saying is whereas

627
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:04.679
<v Speaker 2>I have a rush bomb, I think here rush bomb,

628
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:12.239
<v Speaker 2>what I uh here? If you look in nineteen sha

629
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:16.400
<v Speaker 2>means well one that's the shot to light up I

630
00:36:16.480 --> 00:36:19.239
<v Speaker 2>guess no, no, no no, that's one version to that.

631
00:36:19.400 --> 00:36:22.480
<v Speaker 2>They gave him the sun to as they could see. Well,

632
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.760
<v Speaker 2>if the ecrep shot, what's the mame shot? Rush Bomb says,

633
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:29.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean loved on God gave them the stars and

634
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:34.920
<v Speaker 2>the sun to worship, because he's not really that concerned

635
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:37.920
<v Speaker 2>to what they worship. But not like in the Rashi

636
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:40.559
<v Speaker 2>sense that it's negative. Here it seems that it's uh,

637
00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:45.360
<v Speaker 2>He's allowing them to worship. It's not a concern for

638
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:50.159
<v Speaker 2>him and the the Xavoca Bobo uses this pussle to

639
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:53.079
<v Speaker 2>prove that the concept of Sheeto that we spoke about

640
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:56.719
<v Speaker 2>that as long as the nations recognize that there's some

641
00:36:56.880 --> 00:36:59.960
<v Speaker 2>higher power, they can use these intermediate forces. That's how

642
00:37:00.199 --> 00:37:03.920
<v Speaker 2>Xavakabola they justifies the idea of she took that we

643
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:06.440
<v Speaker 2>spoke about that nanjows are allowed to the Pussic is

644
00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:09.639
<v Speaker 2>almost explicit on it. Rush Bomb's almost explicit on it.

645
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:16.079
<v Speaker 2>Uh in what he's saying. So what does Reacha Kaminski

646
00:37:16.159 --> 00:37:19.159
<v Speaker 2>say If you look at his msli alcohol on persius

647
00:37:19.239 --> 00:37:25.320
<v Speaker 2>veskana this pus he says. He says, this follows he

648
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:28.480
<v Speaker 2>thinks that there is a fundamental dispute about a jotasar

649
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:33.119
<v Speaker 2>foreign worship. Now, according to the Rambam, it's it's all

650
00:37:33.239 --> 00:37:38.320
<v Speaker 2>nonsense idolatry. But according to ain't ba Mama, she car

651
00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:42.079
<v Speaker 2>they alkohakal they idol said that yourship the stars all

652
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:46.320
<v Speaker 2>that they have no value and not when you worship them,

653
00:37:46.719 --> 00:37:49.559
<v Speaker 2>you're also wasting your time. But he says, the ramband

654
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:52.800
<v Speaker 2>holds that God has put into the structure of the

655
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:58.239
<v Speaker 2>world that every nation has a has like a a god.

656
00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:00.760
<v Speaker 2>It's not a god, a god with a small g

657
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:03.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what you call it. A force, a power,

658
00:38:03.880 --> 00:38:06.199
<v Speaker 2>mush be a he calls it in the and that

659
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:12.639
<v Speaker 2>has coohmass powers that could affect and benefit its nation.

660
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:15.920
<v Speaker 2>That is, every nation worships certain gods, and those gods

661
00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:19.880
<v Speaker 2>have authority and can benefit them as long as it

662
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:25.599
<v Speaker 2>doesn't refer to Israel, so what is but it's forbidden?

663
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:28.760
<v Speaker 2>The issor of Lodizara is that the nations are forbidding

664
00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:35.079
<v Speaker 2>to worship these forces rather because their power comes from God.

665
00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:38.480
<v Speaker 2>So the nations have to worship God, and then the

666
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:43.280
<v Speaker 2>powers will be given to these idols. But he says,

667
00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:47.679
<v Speaker 2>in o them. But if nevertheless, they don't worship God,

668
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:53.880
<v Speaker 2>but they worship these powers, who is poly must be these?

669
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:55.639
<v Speaker 3>If you worship let's say.

670
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Zeus, not supposed to these social worship gods, and then

671
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:03.280
<v Speaker 2>they don't go through Zeus. But if you do worship Zeus.

672
00:39:05.159 --> 00:39:08.800
<v Speaker 3>It will help you king. And he says this is

673
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:13.199
<v Speaker 3>the meaning of the puss that God.

674
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:18.360
<v Speaker 2>Must be and then he quotes a Pussic in chaf

675
00:39:18.440 --> 00:39:24.239
<v Speaker 2>Team where as a proof for this, here's the pus

676
00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:30.360
<v Speaker 2>Key quotes, where is it your cheft? This is a

677
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:37.159
<v Speaker 2>Pussic in chapter eleven where uh Gift our own is

678
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:42.880
<v Speaker 2>making war against them. So Gift sends to uh them,

679
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:45.320
<v Speaker 2>don't you know, don't make war with us? What would

680
00:39:45.320 --> 00:39:47.920
<v Speaker 2>happen to all the other nations? And he's telling the

681
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:52.039
<v Speaker 2>story and in in pussa huff doll it he says,

682
00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:59.119
<v Speaker 2>will doubt not possess you. Know, as he's saying, keep

683
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:01.880
<v Speaker 2>to yourself. You don't know to worry about uh going

684
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:04.679
<v Speaker 2>to war against us. Willout not possess that which Ramosh

685
00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:09.119
<v Speaker 2>thy God giveth thee to possess you. Now it's keep

686
00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:14.639
<v Speaker 2>what you have, whatever your God gave you, and anyone

687
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:18.480
<v Speaker 2>who fights with us will destroy them, et cetera. Soakov says,

688
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:22.719
<v Speaker 2>although the Raal Balgan that interprets this as derek halag

689
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:25.079
<v Speaker 2>like it's a mocking thing. It's like they say, you know,

690
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:28.280
<v Speaker 2>you're God, but not a real god, but a phony god.

691
00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:32.079
<v Speaker 2>But Rivakov says, according to the view of the Ramban

692
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:34.199
<v Speaker 2>lo Isa coven Us.

693
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.800
<v Speaker 3>Hella coven Us, so he wasn't mocking them. He was

694
00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:41.760
<v Speaker 3>saying the shot.

695
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Mash that that your God uh Kamosh does have the

696
00:40:53.079 --> 00:41:00.480
<v Speaker 2>power to uh help you and give you things in

697
00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:05.679
<v Speaker 2>all the tins, et cetera, et cetera. The point being,

698
00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Rizakov holes that the world is created in such a

699
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:12.760
<v Speaker 2>way that there are these forces out there that are

700
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:18.239
<v Speaker 2>connected to the different nations, and the nations are benefited

701
00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:23.760
<v Speaker 2>through these forces through God, that is, the God provides

702
00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:29.119
<v Speaker 2>these powers with their ability and Therefore, the benefit of

703
00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:32.159
<v Speaker 2>the nations goes through these powers, but the benefit of

704
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:36.440
<v Speaker 2>the Jews comes directly from Russiam. However, the powers already

705
00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:39.360
<v Speaker 2>exist there there, and if the nations choose to short

706
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:45.159
<v Speaker 2>circuit and not worship God, go directly to the intermediaries

707
00:41:45.360 --> 00:41:48.599
<v Speaker 2>or the the the underlings. They have powers. Just like

708
00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:51.760
<v Speaker 2>if a king, there's a there's princes or dukes. You

709
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:54.320
<v Speaker 2>can go directly to the duke. Maybe the duke has

710
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:58.199
<v Speaker 2>independent power. Rivyakov says, I know this might strike some

711
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:01.360
<v Speaker 2>of you as even blasphemy, but he says that these

712
00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:03.159
<v Speaker 2>and he says, this is the shot of the Ramban,

713
00:42:03.840 --> 00:42:07.239
<v Speaker 2>that these forces that are created by God have independent

714
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:12.960
<v Speaker 2>ability to respond. It's built into nature that although it's

715
00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:15.840
<v Speaker 2>a sin to approach them without going to God, if

716
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:20.039
<v Speaker 2>you do, it'll work. It's no different than like a

717
00:42:20.119 --> 00:42:24.199
<v Speaker 2>magnet or something that God created the magnetism. But you

718
00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:26.159
<v Speaker 2>can do the magnet on your own, or you can

719
00:42:26.239 --> 00:42:28.920
<v Speaker 2>light fire on your own. And this is part of

720
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:31.440
<v Speaker 2>the structure of the world. Just like we have free will,

721
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:35.519
<v Speaker 2>these powers can act, et cetera. That's what he says.

722
00:42:36.280 --> 00:42:39.000
<v Speaker 2>I first heard this concept when I was in high

723
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:42.880
<v Speaker 2>school in tenth grade and a teacher Riiseman.

724
00:42:43.239 --> 00:42:43.320
<v Speaker 1>And.

725
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:46.559
<v Speaker 2>Since it's passed away, I don't know if he's related

726
00:42:46.639 --> 00:42:49.599
<v Speaker 2>to the rise the famous Raby Risemon. And I remember

727
00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:53.800
<v Speaker 2>in class him saying once that you couldn't why did

728
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:57.360
<v Speaker 2>all these nations out there worship these idols if they

729
00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:00.239
<v Speaker 2>didn't get anything from it? So he said that he

730
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:03.559
<v Speaker 2>thinks that there must have been something. There must have

731
00:43:03.599 --> 00:43:07.400
<v Speaker 2>been something in nature that by worshiping the idols something

732
00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:12.039
<v Speaker 2>there was some return by definition built in no different

733
00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:14.280
<v Speaker 2>than like if you eid a matchine the lights up

734
00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:17.159
<v Speaker 2>the fire. So too that if you worship the idols

735
00:43:17.199 --> 00:43:19.360
<v Speaker 2>that they had this authority, you shouldn't do it, but

736
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:22.760
<v Speaker 2>if you do it, it it exists. And I remember thinking,

737
00:43:22.880 --> 00:43:25.000
<v Speaker 2>this is the craziest thing. This is the Rambuan would

738
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:27.599
<v Speaker 2>say this is complete heresy, but that's what he said.

739
00:43:27.679 --> 00:43:29.280
<v Speaker 2>And then I find I don't know if he was

740
00:43:29.760 --> 00:43:33.400
<v Speaker 2>a Termads person, but Ravyakov says the exact same thing.

741
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:38.679
<v Speaker 2>And that's what this letter is about, because I had

742
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:44.760
<v Speaker 2>sent Rabahai Rappaport wrote a piece about this. How it

743
00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:47.719
<v Speaker 2>really what he's saying, what Yakov is saying, it's not

744
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:51.400
<v Speaker 2>what it's not in the Ramban on the surface it seems,

745
00:43:51.519 --> 00:43:57.800
<v Speaker 2>but it's really not there. And Rabbi Schwartz agrees that

746
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:01.440
<v Speaker 2>Rubbert Upward's correct. Not is this not found in the Rumban,

747
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:05.760
<v Speaker 2>but the Rumban in another place explicitly speaks differently. He

748
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:09.639
<v Speaker 2>quotes the Rumban in Yusro, where the Rumban says that

749
00:44:09.800 --> 00:44:14.280
<v Speaker 2>the nation's hush food. They thought that the gods, yesham

750
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:18.039
<v Speaker 2>Nihois like Teva, they thought this, but it's not true.

751
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:22.119
<v Speaker 2>They never had this ability. So it's a fundamental dispute

752
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:26.119
<v Speaker 2>between Rabbi Schwartz. Although Rabbi Kamenevsky is reading the Ramban

753
00:44:26.239 --> 00:44:28.639
<v Speaker 2>this way, which is very difficult to read because the

754
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:30.639
<v Speaker 2>Ramban is and any. He sits another plussic where the

755
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:34.039
<v Speaker 2>Ramban Mishbuting says that they thought this. They thought that

756
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:38.559
<v Speaker 2>the the the the gods with the small gi had

757
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:41.760
<v Speaker 2>this power. But that's so, I don't know what you do.

758
00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:44.400
<v Speaker 2>So let's say you show to your satisfaction that the

759
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Rumban doesn't say it, but does Rizakov still thought it.

760
00:44:48.119 --> 00:44:49.000
<v Speaker 3>So even if he's.

761
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:51.679
<v Speaker 2>Wrong about the Rumban, he still thought that this was

762
00:44:51.719 --> 00:44:54.880
<v Speaker 2>a kosher opinion. Maybe the Ramban never said it, but

763
00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:57.280
<v Speaker 2>he thought this is a kosher opinion to explain the

764
00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:00.440
<v Speaker 2>way the world functions, that there's forces, and really, when

765
00:45:00.440 --> 00:45:01.679
<v Speaker 2>you think about it, I don't. I don't have the

766
00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:03.039
<v Speaker 2>reaction to here when I was in high school. What

767
00:45:03.440 --> 00:45:05.559
<v Speaker 2>if you believe in demons. Let's say the people believe

768
00:45:05.559 --> 00:45:09.559
<v Speaker 2>in demons or astrology. They believe that these were created,

769
00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:12.000
<v Speaker 2>these things or demons. Let's say we're created, but then

770
00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:17.360
<v Speaker 2>they have powers. You have all these traditions about angels rebelling. Fine,

771
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:20.559
<v Speaker 2>the ron mom sees this as superstitions, but you have

772
00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:23.480
<v Speaker 2>it in sources. It doesn't take away from God, from monotheism.

773
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:26.280
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't take because God is still the ultimate authority.

774
00:45:26.719 --> 00:45:29.039
<v Speaker 2>But just like humans can go around and kill people,

775
00:45:29.119 --> 00:45:31.199
<v Speaker 2>they are free will and they are created, so too,

776
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:35.679
<v Speaker 2>God created forces that if people choose to go to them,

777
00:45:36.039 --> 00:45:38.320
<v Speaker 2>they're sinning. But the forces at power, just like you

778
00:45:38.360 --> 00:45:40.559
<v Speaker 2>can go to an evil person and ask you to

779
00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:44.400
<v Speaker 2>hire and to go kill someone. So Ravakov believes the Ramban.

780
00:45:44.440 --> 00:45:44.679
<v Speaker 3>I don't.

781
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Vakov personally believes that he believes the Ramban held that

782
00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:49.599
<v Speaker 2>not just in this world is their free will that

783
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:53.039
<v Speaker 2>goes against God. That even in the opera worlds you

784
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:57.599
<v Speaker 2>have this, and raus Schwartz thinks absolutely not. But the

785
00:45:57.760 --> 00:46:04.679
<v Speaker 2>very interesting position of of of Dako Kamenetsky, Well, there's

786
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:07.599
<v Speaker 2>been a lot written on the Ramban, his view of

787
00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:11.239
<v Speaker 2>the Scapegoat and what he has. He has some passages

788
00:46:11.320 --> 00:46:15.679
<v Speaker 2>there that it's really it comes very close to like

789
00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:19.760
<v Speaker 2>a sort of alternate powers. This has been written about

790
00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:26.519
<v Speaker 2>who someone recently wrote an article on this and on

791
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:32.800
<v Speaker 2>the the the other powers in the in the Ramban.

792
00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:36.280
<v Speaker 2>It's very it's very cabitalistic. It's if you're not into that,

793
00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:41.800
<v Speaker 2>it's it strikes you as as dualistic, almost almost idolatrous even,

794
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:45.199
<v Speaker 2>but you have to understand it's a different perspective of

795
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:50.119
<v Speaker 2>the universe than we're usually taught in ours. When you

796
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:52.079
<v Speaker 2>send out the scapegoat, what are you sending it for?

797
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Where where you sending it? To the idea you have

798
00:46:55.039 --> 00:46:57.800
<v Speaker 2>these ideas that there's some sort of other like power

799
00:46:57.920 --> 00:46:59.920
<v Speaker 2>in the desert sort of thing. I don't need to

800
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:03.880
<v Speaker 2>into that. I'm going to skip number one seventeen in

801
00:47:04.039 --> 00:47:08.159
<v Speaker 2>the in the Safer that just deals with an issue

802
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:12.159
<v Speaker 2>I asked them about. I was wrong. I misinterpreted something

803
00:47:12.280 --> 00:47:16.079
<v Speaker 2>that the Hassam Sofer said, so he corrected me and

804
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:18.079
<v Speaker 2>the Rambo. But I want to get to now number

805
00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:22.199
<v Speaker 2>one eighteen, which is on page two forty five, and

806
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:27.760
<v Speaker 2>this is Rabbi Rappaport. Back to Rabbi Rapaport now, and

807
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:30.119
<v Speaker 2>I need to give an introduction here. The title of

808
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:36.000
<v Speaker 2>this is what is the words referring to secular knowledge? Me,

809
00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:39.840
<v Speaker 2>what's he talking about? Well, the Rumbum wrote a letter

810
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:44.559
<v Speaker 2>to the scholars of Southern France. The scholars of Southern

811
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:50.960
<v Speaker 2>France a page up here. We're basically sympathetic to the

812
00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:54.440
<v Speaker 2>rumbumb to the study philosophy, most of them, but not

813
00:47:54.599 --> 00:47:58.000
<v Speaker 2>all of them. And they didn't they didn't have I mean,

814
00:47:58.079 --> 00:48:00.199
<v Speaker 2>some like the me Erie, were more than others. We

815
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:04.199
<v Speaker 2>spoke about the Rabbino Yona, although he was he studied

816
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:08.360
<v Speaker 2>under an unusual person who was really the great opponent of.

817
00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:08.840
<v Speaker 1>The rum Bum.

818
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:13.159
<v Speaker 2>But they were not many of them were not totally

819
00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:16.880
<v Speaker 2>on board with even if they were sympathetic philosophy to

820
00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:21.440
<v Speaker 2>everything the rum Bub stood for. And he wrote a

821
00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:24.679
<v Speaker 2>series of letters. See he responds that he explained certain

822
00:48:24.760 --> 00:48:27.360
<v Speaker 2>problematic elements in the mission of Tara that they had

823
00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.519
<v Speaker 2>asked him about and he wrote a very long letter

824
00:48:31.400 --> 00:48:35.760
<v Speaker 2>to the scholars, and the premier scholar was Jonathan of Unel.

825
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Just last year by Charles Sheer translated this. He calls

826
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:44.480
<v Speaker 2>it the Grand Epistle to the Scholars of Unel, where

827
00:48:44.519 --> 00:48:49.599
<v Speaker 2>the rumbumb before getting into the the objections that they had,

828
00:48:49.639 --> 00:48:53.480
<v Speaker 2>the alt of objections, well, there wasn't so much objections

829
00:48:53.519 --> 00:48:57.559
<v Speaker 2>often as explaining what the Ramba meant. He has this

830
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:02.119
<v Speaker 2>very long letter in which very malitsa poetic and in

831
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:06.079
<v Speaker 2>this letter, among other things, he says as follows, I

832
00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:13.960
<v Speaker 2>believe I pulled it up here the original, So yeah,

833
00:49:16.639 --> 00:49:21.039
<v Speaker 2>maybe maybe I didn't. Well, I'll tell you, yeah, I

834
00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:24.880
<v Speaker 2>don't think I made the hold it up. Okay, I'll

835
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:27.719
<v Speaker 2>tell you what he says. D Rumbum says, calls us out.

836
00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:31.440
<v Speaker 2>D Rumbum says that he studied all the secular studies

837
00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:37.639
<v Speaker 2>he did were like catabajot O folks were perfumers and

838
00:49:38.119 --> 00:49:45.079
<v Speaker 2>uh cooks and and bakers. And he says that these

839
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:47.920
<v Speaker 2>were not they're they're not the essential My essential thing

840
00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:50.840
<v Speaker 2>is Torah. These are sort of like the secondary things,

841
00:49:51.039 --> 00:49:52.679
<v Speaker 2>and they make tower look good in the eyes of

842
00:49:52.719 --> 00:49:58.519
<v Speaker 2>the nations. He's downplaying the significance of secular studies as

843
00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:02.360
<v Speaker 2>the secondary. Actually, this would be what we would say

844
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:08.719
<v Speaker 2>in Toromanta probably or maybe some forms of Toromanta. Actually

845
00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:11.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't know and not not not Norman Lambs, Toromano,

846
00:50:11.320 --> 00:50:15.360
<v Speaker 2>others so others Uma. But that's the problem is which

847
00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:21.719
<v Speaker 2>I raised, is that if you look in the mission

848
00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:26.559
<v Speaker 2>of Torah, and you look in the Morenauchi, these secular studies,

849
00:50:26.559 --> 00:50:30.880
<v Speaker 2>at least some of the secure studies science, philosophy, metaphysics, physics. Uh,

850
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:35.519
<v Speaker 2>these are not secondary things. These are essential. We've spoken

851
00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:39.239
<v Speaker 2>about this already essential for Tonra's study. You can't fulfill

852
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:42.199
<v Speaker 2>the midst of if you don't know science.

853
00:50:43.079 --> 00:50:43.800
<v Speaker 3>This is basic.

854
00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:46.480
<v Speaker 2>Look in hil Is Sodia Toner the first four chapters.

855
00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:51.559
<v Speaker 2>And that's not my submarracis my sco my subracis. That's

856
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:54.639
<v Speaker 2>the big thing, he says, Uh, the little things really

857
00:50:54.760 --> 00:50:56.320
<v Speaker 2>is the other forms of tom was starting the thing

858
00:50:56.360 --> 00:50:57.480
<v Speaker 2>we do every day, daffi only.

859
00:50:57.559 --> 00:50:59.199
<v Speaker 3>But philosophy is higher.

860
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:03.159
<v Speaker 2>How could the Rambams say in writing to them, the

861
00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:06.079
<v Speaker 2>secular studies it's sort of like a side interest of him.

862
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:10.599
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't define him. So what Professor Torski and his

863
00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:14.079
<v Speaker 2>introduction to the Codamimonodes. He says, what the Raman's referring

864
00:51:14.119 --> 00:51:18.199
<v Speaker 2>to there is not metaphysics, physics, chemistry, that sort of

865
00:51:18.239 --> 00:51:20.360
<v Speaker 2>thing that helps us understand the world. He's referring to,

866
00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:24.840
<v Speaker 2>let's say logic and mathematics. Maybe, but I don't seem

867
00:51:24.840 --> 00:51:27.119
<v Speaker 2>the language in the rombamb My argument, and I wrote this,

868
00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:30.400
<v Speaker 2>and this is what right Reports responding to, is that

869
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:33.599
<v Speaker 2>I think the Rambam's letter is written with an eye

870
00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:37.400
<v Speaker 2>towards who's receiving it. That although the people in that

871
00:51:37.480 --> 00:51:41.360
<v Speaker 2>he's writing to were sympathetic to the study of philosophy,

872
00:51:41.480 --> 00:51:45.599
<v Speaker 2>but only as like a secondary thing. They were were

873
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:49.719
<v Speaker 2>open minded people who believe that when you reach a

874
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:53.280
<v Speaker 2>certain age, even the Rushbah, the band against the study

875
00:51:53.320 --> 00:51:55.840
<v Speaker 2>of philosophy, was like under twenty five, when you reach

876
00:51:55.840 --> 00:51:57.639
<v Speaker 2>a certain age, you can study it. But they didn't.

877
00:51:57.679 --> 00:51:59.639
<v Speaker 2>They didn't buy into the romans whole idea that my

878
00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:03.159
<v Speaker 2>Rati's and Lisa Markova is the Secrets of the Tonra

879
00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:07.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean is for his science, physics and metaphysics. So

880
00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:10.239
<v Speaker 2>I think the Rahmbam's letter and I have an article

881
00:52:10.400 --> 00:52:13.639
<v Speaker 2>which I give a number of examples in which the

882
00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:18.199
<v Speaker 2>Rambam writes things that seem to appeal to certain people,

883
00:52:18.280 --> 00:52:23.159
<v Speaker 2>they're not necessarily affecting his his inner feelings. So I wrote,

884
00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:32.199
<v Speaker 2>Report is responding to me, and he says that, well'sk

885
00:52:32.239 --> 00:52:34.000
<v Speaker 2>at the beginning of it. What he what he says

886
00:52:34.119 --> 00:52:35.079
<v Speaker 2>basically is that.

887
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:37.599
<v Speaker 3>He says that.

888
00:52:39.159 --> 00:52:42.039
<v Speaker 2>I call He says, you called this a munajrat a

889
00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:46.159
<v Speaker 2>necessary belief and not a true belief for the Rombum.

890
00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:50.039
<v Speaker 2>And he says, I don't think that's the case. He says,

891
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:52.400
<v Speaker 2>What I think is the case is that the Rumbum

892
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:59.199
<v Speaker 2>is writing the FDA in accordance to the opinion of

893
00:52:59.239 --> 00:53:02.000
<v Speaker 2>the people who is writing to. And as the point is,

894
00:53:02.079 --> 00:53:03.960
<v Speaker 2>though I said that exact same thing, I don't know

895
00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:06.360
<v Speaker 2>where Robert Report got this. I sent them an essay

896
00:53:06.400 --> 00:53:08.440
<v Speaker 2>of mine to read. What I did is I have

897
00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:10.280
<v Speaker 2>a whole article like it's send to anyone where I

898
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:12.800
<v Speaker 2>speak about the idea of necessary beliefs in the rom Bum.

899
00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:15.880
<v Speaker 2>The Rambum says that there's a concept of necessary beliefs

900
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:18.760
<v Speaker 2>versus true beliefs. A necessary belief is what you want

901
00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.599
<v Speaker 2>people to believe, even if it's not true, but it

902
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:25.280
<v Speaker 2>has certain value. Religious value, political value. The Rumum thinks

903
00:53:25.320 --> 00:53:28.400
<v Speaker 2>the tower itself has necessary beliefs. The Rumbum speaks that

904
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:32.039
<v Speaker 2>says that the tower speaks of God being angry, and

905
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:34.360
<v Speaker 2>he says it's important for the masses to believe that

906
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:37.360
<v Speaker 2>God really gets angry, even though God doesn't have emotions

907
00:53:38.239 --> 00:53:41.599
<v Speaker 2>that the intellectuals understand. When it says God gets angry,

908
00:53:41.719 --> 00:53:45.239
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't mean it in a literal sense. But the masses,

909
00:53:45.280 --> 00:53:47.719
<v Speaker 2>the ram Mom says, before they are supposed to take

910
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:50.480
<v Speaker 2>it literally. Later, if they can, they'll be able to

911
00:53:50.559 --> 00:53:54.679
<v Speaker 2>expand themselves and understand that it's not really literal. But

912
00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:56.920
<v Speaker 2>God responds in a way that you would think he

913
00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:00.360
<v Speaker 2>has anger, because humans would respond that way if they

914
00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:02.159
<v Speaker 2>had anger, you know, they destroy a city or something

915
00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:02.400
<v Speaker 2>like that.

916
00:54:03.920 --> 00:54:04.119
<v Speaker 3>And the.

917
00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:09.960
<v Speaker 2>There's a whole of type of analysis the Rombum that

918
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:13.880
<v Speaker 2>focuses on necessary beliefs, because the rom Bum sometimes writes

919
00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:17.159
<v Speaker 2>things and elsewhere writes things differently, So why was he

920
00:54:17.239 --> 00:54:18.880
<v Speaker 2>writing it one way and writing in some of his

921
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:21.480
<v Speaker 2>letters he says things that he says differently in the

922
00:54:21.559 --> 00:54:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Morn and the ram Moum hints in a number of

923
00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:26.840
<v Speaker 2>places that what he says is the necessary belief. That is,

924
00:54:26.840 --> 00:54:28.519
<v Speaker 2>it's not as true belief. It's not the belief for

925
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:31.039
<v Speaker 2>the intellectuals, it's the belief for the masses. And the

926
00:54:31.119 --> 00:54:33.719
<v Speaker 2>rur Mom tells us that the masses are not supposed

927
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:36.280
<v Speaker 2>to be let into the true beliefs. That he tells

928
00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:39.360
<v Speaker 2>us explicitly in the moreno Vouchim that there are certain

929
00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:41.559
<v Speaker 2>things that the masses can't be given the truth that

930
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:44.599
<v Speaker 2>by definition that means that they're being given something which

931
00:54:45.039 --> 00:54:48.000
<v Speaker 2>is what we call it necessary truth, that it's necessary

932
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:50.679
<v Speaker 2>for them to believe it, but it's not really the truth.

933
00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:55.159
<v Speaker 2>And in discussing this concept in the rom Bumb I

934
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:58.320
<v Speaker 2>gave other examples where the rombumb expresses himself in a

935
00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:02.199
<v Speaker 2>way that doesn't really reflects his true view. I'm calling

936
00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:04.519
<v Speaker 2>a necessary belief, because a necessary belief is a belief

937
00:55:04.559 --> 00:55:07.280
<v Speaker 2>that people, let's say, the masses are really supposed to

938
00:55:07.400 --> 00:55:11.760
<v Speaker 2>believe until they're able to move beyond that. He wasn't

939
00:55:11.800 --> 00:55:14.519
<v Speaker 2>writing to the scholars of France and saying that they're

940
00:55:14.519 --> 00:55:16.719
<v Speaker 2>supposed to believe this. He wasn't trying to indoctrinate them

941
00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:19.519
<v Speaker 2>like in other places will try to indoctrinate the masses

942
00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:22.400
<v Speaker 2>in certain ideas, because he feels without this, they won't

943
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:24.440
<v Speaker 2>be able to stay on the proper path.

944
00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:26.320
<v Speaker 3>I think rabbis today do the same thing.

945
00:55:26.760 --> 00:55:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Rabbis will speak very differently from the pulpit than they

946
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:32.800
<v Speaker 2>will in private groups. There are certain things you don't

947
00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:35.760
<v Speaker 2>want to say publicly, because raf Cook himself says Raff

948
00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:38.760
<v Speaker 2>Cook says that you shouldn't say something publicly, even if

949
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:41.159
<v Speaker 2>you know it's true, if it will negatively affect the

950
00:55:41.239 --> 00:55:44.840
<v Speaker 2>faith of someone, that someone's not sophisticated, they can't understand

951
00:55:44.840 --> 00:55:47.920
<v Speaker 2>about evolution power, he says, don't speak about it. So

952
00:55:48.079 --> 00:55:53.159
<v Speaker 2>for that person, you give them a certain truth. In Buddhism,

953
00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:57.320
<v Speaker 2>this is called necessary means. That is, the simple people,

954
00:55:58.159 --> 00:56:00.440
<v Speaker 2>you need to teach them a certain way that they

955
00:56:00.519 --> 00:56:01.280
<v Speaker 2>can appreciate.

956
00:56:01.400 --> 00:56:03.480
<v Speaker 3>The intellectuals, you do.

957
00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:05.960
<v Speaker 2>It in a different way. This this parallel, and we

958
00:56:06.039 --> 00:56:09.119
<v Speaker 2>have that's the exact parallel with the rob is doing

959
00:56:09.199 --> 00:56:12.800
<v Speaker 2>necessary means. We teach our children differently than we treat

960
00:56:12.840 --> 00:56:15.159
<v Speaker 2>that teach adults. So what I was saying is that

961
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:17.400
<v Speaker 2>when he wrote to the scholars of France, because they

962
00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:20.199
<v Speaker 2>are not thought, they're not philosophally in calling the way

963
00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:24.079
<v Speaker 2>he is. He writes a certain way. In another article

964
00:56:24.119 --> 00:56:27.800
<v Speaker 2>I post, as I point out Cook Roff Cook is right.

965
00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:29.719
<v Speaker 2>He has this letter where he writes to the leaders

966
00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:35.079
<v Speaker 2>of to try to explain why he's why he supports us, say,

967
00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:37.800
<v Speaker 2>the settlement of the irreligious, and we all know off

968
00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:40.280
<v Speaker 2>Cook's opinion. Of Cook's opinion is that the eureligious have

969
00:56:40.760 --> 00:56:44.039
<v Speaker 2>much to gain, have benefit us, and that they provide

970
00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:47.400
<v Speaker 2>the physicality and we're the spirituality, but they're they're also

971
00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:50.760
<v Speaker 2>vital for the creation of the rebuilding of this new land,

972
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:53.239
<v Speaker 2>et cetera, et cetera. And that they are going to

973
00:56:53.320 --> 00:56:56.480
<v Speaker 2>teach the religious about strength because we the religious, have

974
00:56:56.639 --> 00:56:59.840
<v Speaker 2>forgotten what it means to have strong bodies and we

975
00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:03.400
<v Speaker 2>only have the spirituality, but the irreligious have the physicality.

976
00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:05.199
<v Speaker 2>So we're gonna give them spirituality, They're going to give

977
00:57:05.199 --> 00:57:08.199
<v Speaker 2>the physicality. This a whole dialectic, it's basic, drific What

978
00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:09.719
<v Speaker 2>does he do when he writes to the rabbis that

979
00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:13.079
<v Speaker 2>he says, we need to encourage he's irreligious because they're

980
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:15.480
<v Speaker 2>the ones who can build the roads, and they're the

981
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:19.039
<v Speaker 2>ones who can, you know, build things, because that's what

982
00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:24.000
<v Speaker 2>they do. And without any relevance to the theological significance

983
00:57:24.079 --> 00:57:26.639
<v Speaker 2>that he sees in the irreligious. So I think the

984
00:57:26.719 --> 00:57:29.920
<v Speaker 2>same with the rumbum that he writes to the scholars

985
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:33.239
<v Speaker 2>of France. He's saying to them that in words they

986
00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:36.079
<v Speaker 2>can understand. And that's exactly where the rabbitport says. So

987
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:39.280
<v Speaker 2>if he does a show only and he goes on,

988
00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:43.880
<v Speaker 2>he says, we find in other places Shathilgdolistro, even great

989
00:57:43.960 --> 00:57:47.559
<v Speaker 2>rabbis didn't attempt to convince the recipient of a letter

990
00:57:48.400 --> 00:57:52.320
<v Speaker 2>what they were saying. Rather, a shoemol hamofi mal rather

991
00:57:52.440 --> 00:57:55.440
<v Speaker 2>wrote to them in accordance to with how they their perspective.

992
00:57:56.079 --> 00:57:58.159
<v Speaker 2>And he said, by report says, and he's correct that

993
00:57:58.280 --> 00:58:06.920
<v Speaker 2>this has not do with necessary beliefs. And and he says,

994
00:58:07.000 --> 00:58:09.679
<v Speaker 2>because what that means that the rambo thought he could

995
00:58:09.840 --> 00:58:12.480
<v Speaker 2>uh convince them of it, that he would try to

996
00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:15.840
<v Speaker 2>convince them and they he wouldn't have any reason to

997
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:19.480
<v Speaker 2>keep them in their their their beliefs. But that's not

998
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:22.920
<v Speaker 2>that that's not what it means at all. Uh. And

999
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:26.760
<v Speaker 2>I point out in the note that this is exactly

1000
00:58:26.880 --> 00:58:29.400
<v Speaker 2>what I said in my article. I pointed out the

1001
00:58:29.480 --> 00:58:31.639
<v Speaker 2>same thing. And my rapport must not have seen the

1002
00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:35.800
<v Speaker 2>final edition of my article. But the concept is the same,

1003
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:41.119
<v Speaker 2>that they're not everything great rabbi is right, reflects their

1004
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:43.519
<v Speaker 2>true opinion all the time. I know this is radical

1005
00:58:43.599 --> 00:58:46.800
<v Speaker 2>maybe for some people. One with this that you often

1006
00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:50.719
<v Speaker 2>find great rabbi saying things that are are for the audience,

1007
00:58:51.079 --> 00:58:57.599
<v Speaker 2>or that they contradict themselves. They're in a certain circumstance,

1008
00:58:57.679 --> 00:59:00.440
<v Speaker 2>they'll respond a certain way. You have stories, robs Acheck,

1009
00:59:00.639 --> 00:59:03.440
<v Speaker 2>he responded different ways to different people. Well, some people,

1010
00:59:05.360 --> 00:59:08.159
<v Speaker 2>some people are not ready for a certain SoC Let's say,

1011
00:59:08.199 --> 00:59:11.000
<v Speaker 2>let's speak in terms of holakau. Some people whereby salivate

1012
00:59:11.119 --> 00:59:14.199
<v Speaker 2>chiku in nefasherav or chefter quote. I think it's afterever.

1013
00:59:14.360 --> 00:59:16.559
<v Speaker 2>The next one quotes him as saying, in those days

1014
00:59:16.559 --> 00:59:19.320
<v Speaker 2>are solvation. You see kraft cheese. And he held that

1015
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:24.280
<v Speaker 2>the vinasakum, there's no issue. It's a vegetarian. But if

1016
00:59:24.320 --> 00:59:27.960
<v Speaker 2>Salik told the Yeshiva students the Snagel students, don't tell

1017
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:30.920
<v Speaker 2>your Ballabat team that this is permissible, because the Ballabat

1018
00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:33.880
<v Speaker 2>team it's alchave mowering king. That's a principle that not

1019
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:36.960
<v Speaker 2>everything you should be made public for everyone. So you

1020
00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:40.079
<v Speaker 2>respond differently to different people. That's that's sort of like

1021
00:59:40.199 --> 00:59:43.360
<v Speaker 2>a uh, the rabbi is listening to me. I probably say, well,

1022
00:59:43.360 --> 00:59:46.519
<v Speaker 2>I'll duh. Of course we know we can't say everything

1023
00:59:46.599 --> 00:59:50.000
<v Speaker 2>the same thing instead of saying everyone. But it's sometimes

1024
00:59:50.119 --> 00:59:53.119
<v Speaker 2>problematic when you see people writing in letters. I saw

1025
00:59:53.760 --> 00:59:56.440
<v Speaker 2>of Weinberg. He writes one way to someone from the

1026
00:59:56.480 --> 00:59:59.760
<v Speaker 2>Ayeshiva world in a different way, not necessarily always a

1027
00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:02.599
<v Speaker 2>kind tradiction, but just the different stress. So when he

1028
01:00:02.639 --> 01:00:05.440
<v Speaker 2>writes to someone in the Yeshiba world, he'll talk about

1029
01:00:05.480 --> 01:00:08.320
<v Speaker 2>the problems that the state of Israel, you know, the

1030
01:00:08.960 --> 01:00:12.320
<v Speaker 2>Secui re Zionists, and he just had that. You think

1031
01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:14.000
<v Speaker 2>he's an a gouddiest. But then you see him ryan

1032
01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:16.000
<v Speaker 2>to a Msraki person about in the state of Israel

1033
01:00:16.119 --> 01:00:18.360
<v Speaker 2>is the greatest gift given to us from God? It

1034
01:00:18.559 --> 01:00:22.480
<v Speaker 2>is it a contradiction now, But when he's writing to

1035
01:00:22.599 --> 01:00:25.400
<v Speaker 2>one person, so where does his heart really lay. Maybe

1036
01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:27.800
<v Speaker 2>it's the a gouddist or maybe with the Masraki that's

1037
01:00:27.840 --> 01:00:29.519
<v Speaker 2>what I read about in the book. But this is

1038
01:00:29.880 --> 01:00:33.320
<v Speaker 2>you see this with the Rambam. Also, lat says it,

1039
01:00:33.599 --> 01:00:36.639
<v Speaker 2>anyone who studied the Rambam knows that you have different

1040
01:00:36.800 --> 01:00:40.880
<v Speaker 2>stresses and sometimes even perhaps contradictions. So with this will

1041
01:00:41.159 --> 01:00:45.480
<v Speaker 2>end what we're going to pick up next class. We're

1042
01:00:45.480 --> 01:00:47.880
<v Speaker 2>going to go to the ballatonia. Wait, do you see

1043
01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:51.280
<v Speaker 2>what the balatonia says totally in opposition to what the

1044
01:00:51.320 --> 01:00:56.800
<v Speaker 2>Hasidium at least many Hasidim will hold today. Then we'll

1045
01:00:56.800 --> 01:00:59.840
<v Speaker 2>get into what I thought we might get to the

1046
01:01:01.559 --> 01:01:03.920
<v Speaker 2>very troubling passage with the tour, and if we get

1047
01:01:03.960 --> 01:01:06.039
<v Speaker 2>to it next pass we'll get into a little bit

1048
01:01:06.039 --> 01:01:09.880
<v Speaker 2>of a batte din appeals courts whatever, Well, where do

1049
01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:13.400
<v Speaker 2>we have our lawyers here? You're often told in Yeshiva

1050
01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:17.400
<v Speaker 2>that this whole conception of appeals courts and the Israel

1051
01:01:17.400 --> 01:01:22.519
<v Speaker 2>bote did system is taken from secular because tour doesn't

1052
01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:25.840
<v Speaker 2>know about appeals courts. And so we'll hear what was

1053
01:01:25.880 --> 01:01:26.840
<v Speaker 2>going on in Prague?

1054
01:01:26.880 --> 01:01:27.559
<v Speaker 3>And what's.

1055
01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:32.119
<v Speaker 2>Let me get the question, is now time really flies?

1056
01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Let me see we have a nice big crowd tonight

1057
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:42.480
<v Speaker 2>over sixty, Thank you all for coming. iPad says in

1058
01:01:42.599 --> 01:01:45.920
<v Speaker 2>pre war the pre war army may not have been perfect,

1059
01:01:46.280 --> 01:01:47.760
<v Speaker 2>but it was not an army of a state till

1060
01:01:47.800 --> 01:01:51.679
<v Speaker 2>after independence, an underground organization. Most of fighting Arab size

1061
01:01:51.719 --> 01:01:53.800
<v Speaker 2>or former armor is often trained by the British. Yeah,

1062
01:01:54.000 --> 01:01:56.199
<v Speaker 2>but in May already have forty eight. You have the

1063
01:01:56.280 --> 01:01:59.920
<v Speaker 2>idea as along with I have to say with irregular

1064
01:02:00.239 --> 01:02:01.960
<v Speaker 2>because it took a while to get Lachi and they

1065
01:02:02.000 --> 01:02:04.119
<v Speaker 2>are good and joint into it. But we do have

1066
01:02:04.320 --> 01:02:05.840
<v Speaker 2>I am not going to deny it. There were some

1067
01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:10.840
<v Speaker 2>incidents where there were human rights violations, there were killings,

1068
01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:13.360
<v Speaker 2>there were rapes that happens, happens in every war, and

1069
01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:16.199
<v Speaker 2>it happened in the idea of it happened in nineteen

1070
01:02:16.280 --> 01:02:19.280
<v Speaker 2>forty eight. Much more, I don't know of any cases

1071
01:02:19.400 --> 01:02:23.639
<v Speaker 2>like this where in sixty seven or the other wars

1072
01:02:24.880 --> 01:02:26.960
<v Speaker 2>they weren't really you know Ebanon. I don't know if

1073
01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:30.159
<v Speaker 2>cases like this. In nineteen forty eight. There was a

1074
01:02:30.199 --> 01:02:33.920
<v Speaker 2>lot of chaos, and unfortunately you had terrible things happen.

1075
01:02:34.079 --> 01:02:36.599
<v Speaker 2>The things that were not were supposed to be above that,

1076
01:02:36.880 --> 01:02:40.679
<v Speaker 2>but it was a difficult circumstance. There was a lot

1077
01:02:40.760 --> 01:02:43.239
<v Speaker 2>of hatred and not justifying it. And some of these

1078
01:02:43.239 --> 01:02:45.440
<v Speaker 2>people were men of volume and were selling who did

1079
01:02:45.480 --> 01:02:47.599
<v Speaker 2>these sort of things. Some of these if you read

1080
01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:50.400
<v Speaker 2>some of these people, these were founders of State of Israel.

1081
01:02:50.400 --> 01:02:53.400
<v Speaker 2>They had no Jewish values. There had no helpe. I'm

1082
01:02:53.440 --> 01:02:55.719
<v Speaker 2>not sounding like an anti Zionist, but they had no

1083
01:02:55.880 --> 01:02:58.639
<v Speaker 2>Terra values. Toror was the furthest thing. They had no

1084
01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:02.000
<v Speaker 2>Jewish values. They for the many of them human life,

1085
01:03:02.079 --> 01:03:05.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean some of them even in the underground a

1086
01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:08.400
<v Speaker 2>civil war. They could have imagined a civil war they

1087
01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:11.000
<v Speaker 2>you had in the underground. Some killed Jews who they

1088
01:03:11.039 --> 01:03:14.519
<v Speaker 2>thought were collaborators. There's no question that members of the

1089
01:03:14.599 --> 01:03:17.880
<v Speaker 2>underground not Bigan, because by the time he got involved

1090
01:03:17.920 --> 01:03:22.800
<v Speaker 2>with it, mostly things were kept were carefully and they

1091
01:03:22.840 --> 01:03:26.920
<v Speaker 2>weren't throwing bombs just into crowded markets or things like that.

1092
01:03:27.639 --> 01:03:31.559
<v Speaker 2>The King David Hotel was a military target, and as

1093
01:03:31.599 --> 01:03:34.679
<v Speaker 2>long as you assumed that military targets are valid, it's

1094
01:03:34.719 --> 01:03:38.239
<v Speaker 2>a valid target. They even called and they they they

1095
01:03:38.360 --> 01:03:41.440
<v Speaker 2>warned them to leave. They're true their work cases where

1096
01:03:42.199 --> 01:03:44.119
<v Speaker 2>they are good and killed British soldiers that they had

1097
01:03:44.199 --> 01:03:49.880
<v Speaker 2>kidnapped in response to the execution of Jews who were captured,

1098
01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:51.920
<v Speaker 2>and they warned them, if you're gonna kill these, we're

1099
01:03:51.920 --> 01:03:54.159
<v Speaker 2>going to kill yours again. Today I think we'd have

1100
01:03:54.199 --> 01:03:56.880
<v Speaker 2>a problem with that, but that's and I don't know

1101
01:03:56.920 --> 01:04:00.840
<v Speaker 2>if that's immoral in wartime as part of response. But

1102
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:02.519
<v Speaker 2>I but my whole point is I don't think we

1103
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:05.119
<v Speaker 2>need we don't need to defend if someone in forty

1104
01:04:05.119 --> 01:04:06.880
<v Speaker 2>eight did a terrible thing, he did a terrible thing

1105
01:04:07.400 --> 01:04:11.119
<v Speaker 2>to simpose that, but that doesn't We've never advocated this,

1106
01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:12.960
<v Speaker 2>and we don't glorify this, and we don't think this

1107
01:04:13.079 --> 01:04:15.320
<v Speaker 2>is a great thing. We don't build monuments for people

1108
01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:17.119
<v Speaker 2>who do things like this, and we don't cheer when

1109
01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:19.800
<v Speaker 2>we see this. In fact, we're embarrassed if we'd find

1110
01:04:19.840 --> 01:04:23.079
<v Speaker 2>out something like that happened. And so they all that

1111
01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:25.880
<v Speaker 2>talk about this and that it doesn't a terrible thing

1112
01:04:25.920 --> 01:04:28.400
<v Speaker 2>that this person did that person, that it doesn't destroy

1113
01:04:28.599 --> 01:04:31.920
<v Speaker 2>the it doesn't really uproot the Zionist idea. One thing

1114
01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:33.679
<v Speaker 2>is going to do with the other. And really, if

1115
01:04:33.800 --> 01:04:36.079
<v Speaker 2>Israel wanted to act, they could have killed them all.

1116
01:04:36.119 --> 01:04:39.280
<v Speaker 2>They could have uprooted them all. And so these are

1117
01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:44.039
<v Speaker 2>sort of exceptions. That's my feeling. Small You're good left.

1118
01:04:44.079 --> 01:04:46.800
<v Speaker 2>The stern Gang actually stern gang. They don't like the

1119
01:04:46.840 --> 01:04:50.039
<v Speaker 2>words stern Gang, stern group. Stern Gang is a negative.

1120
01:04:50.079 --> 01:04:52.360
<v Speaker 2>You can call them terrorists. But they were also formed

1121
01:04:52.360 --> 01:04:54.480
<v Speaker 2>because the British failed to protect Jews in their territories

1122
01:04:54.519 --> 01:04:57.440
<v Speaker 2>as they were supposed to. That's really the Hagan Nah

1123
01:04:57.760 --> 01:05:03.239
<v Speaker 2>you're good and is stern gang. They were about getting

1124
01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:07.679
<v Speaker 2>rid of the British. That was enemy number one, imperialism.

1125
01:05:07.800 --> 01:05:09.639
<v Speaker 2>And I have to say not that you're good. During

1126
01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:10.719
<v Speaker 2>World War two, they are good.

1127
01:05:10.880 --> 01:05:11.480
<v Speaker 3>Stop the war.

1128
01:05:11.599 --> 01:05:13.519
<v Speaker 2>They say, the most important thing now is not the

1129
01:05:13.559 --> 01:05:15.639
<v Speaker 2>war against the British, it's the war against the Nazis.

1130
01:05:16.039 --> 01:05:18.760
<v Speaker 2>And they believed in joining together. Lehchi refused to call

1131
01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:21.559
<v Speaker 2>off the war. Lechi sent people into be Route to

1132
01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:25.039
<v Speaker 2>meet with the Nazis. Lechi was willing to ally themselves

1133
01:05:25.199 --> 01:05:28.320
<v Speaker 2>with the Nazis to fight the British. And after the war,

1134
01:05:29.800 --> 01:05:35.440
<v Speaker 2>Lehchi became pro Soviet, not pro American, pro Soviet because

1135
01:05:35.440 --> 01:05:38.800
<v Speaker 2>they thought that Soviets would Now there were people like

1136
01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:41.880
<v Speaker 2>uh Cohen who who didn't have this perspective, but El

1137
01:05:42.000 --> 01:05:45.159
<v Speaker 2>Dodd and Yell and these were all in the Soviet camp.

1138
01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:48.719
<v Speaker 2>So I shed noh, I have none. There's no soft

1139
01:05:48.760 --> 01:05:52.559
<v Speaker 2>spot in me for Lehi. You're good is different though

1140
01:05:52.599 --> 01:05:56.039
<v Speaker 2>you're good. They they fought with dignity and honor, and

1141
01:05:57.400 --> 01:05:59.559
<v Speaker 2>I believe and that was but it was you know,

1142
01:05:59.599 --> 01:06:02.480
<v Speaker 2>the British. Surely imperilss and British were That's really what

1143
01:06:02.599 --> 01:06:05.639
<v Speaker 2>it was. It wasn't it was to force the British out.

1144
01:06:06.039 --> 01:06:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Now did it force them out? Eventually they would have left,

1145
01:06:09.800 --> 01:06:12.800
<v Speaker 2>but they probably wouldn't have left till later. Most of

1146
01:06:12.840 --> 01:06:15.599
<v Speaker 2>the colonies of the India they didn't leave till good

1147
01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:27.000
<v Speaker 2>fifteen years later. Susanna says that even when speaking about

1148
01:06:27.000 --> 01:06:29.400
<v Speaker 2>young israel I, guess it's new Rochelle. If you have antibodies,

1149
01:06:29.400 --> 01:06:32.719
<v Speaker 2>everyone was there there must wear a mask. Well, you

1150
01:06:32.800 --> 01:06:35.639
<v Speaker 2>were gonna have to wear masks because until we assume

1151
01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:39.400
<v Speaker 2>that until everyone has until everyone has had a chance

1152
01:06:39.480 --> 01:06:44.280
<v Speaker 2>to get the vaccine, we have to wear masks because

1153
01:06:44.679 --> 01:06:47.440
<v Speaker 2>we have to protect them. But for these people who

1154
01:06:47.480 --> 01:06:48.920
<v Speaker 2>are gonna say I'm not gonna wear a mask because

1155
01:06:48.920 --> 01:06:50.719
<v Speaker 2>I don't believe it. If everyone has had a chance

1156
01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:52.960
<v Speaker 2>to get it, we don't have to go around with

1157
01:06:53.079 --> 01:06:56.119
<v Speaker 2>masks because some idiot decides they don't want to get vaccinated.

1158
01:06:56.559 --> 01:06:58.320
<v Speaker 2>If that's the case, that's I don't have to then

1159
01:06:58.440 --> 01:07:02.199
<v Speaker 2>be inconvenienced my whole life, like I says. Not only

1160
01:07:02.239 --> 01:07:04.079
<v Speaker 2>the British not protect Jews, they often actually worked with

1161
01:07:04.119 --> 01:07:05.039
<v Speaker 2>Arabs the target Jews.

1162
01:07:05.039 --> 01:07:05.519
<v Speaker 3>That is true.

1163
01:07:05.559 --> 01:07:07.159
<v Speaker 2>They did not protect the Jews, and that was the

1164
01:07:07.239 --> 01:07:10.800
<v Speaker 2>in the Haganah focused on that. The the air gun

1165
01:07:10.880 --> 01:07:13.360
<v Speaker 2>and the lechi really did hitdn't protect the Jews as

1166
01:07:13.400 --> 01:07:16.840
<v Speaker 2>much as they did the reprisal attacks when Jews were attacked.

1167
01:07:16.920 --> 01:07:20.400
<v Speaker 2>And but that was the mains, the mainstream was the Huguanah.

1168
01:07:21.159 --> 01:07:23.079
<v Speaker 2>That was their job or the and then then yet

1169
01:07:23.079 --> 01:07:25.280
<v Speaker 2>the Palmach of course Paul March incidentally also had a

1170
01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:28.599
<v Speaker 2>lot of leftists and the U palm groups. But the

1171
01:07:28.760 --> 01:07:30.639
<v Speaker 2>job of the year gun and the Lachi was to

1172
01:07:30.760 --> 01:07:36.400
<v Speaker 2>drive the British imperiodalists off the land of Israel. Safer

1173
01:07:36.480 --> 01:07:38.280
<v Speaker 2>ing Aco of popular as a got into particular for

1174
01:07:38.320 --> 01:07:41.960
<v Speaker 2>the masses, yes, time's correct, and and but that those

1175
01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:43.920
<v Speaker 2>won't be arm masses. These are at least masses who

1176
01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:48.280
<v Speaker 2>can read Hebrew, who can understand it. iPad says, if

1177
01:07:48.320 --> 01:07:50.440
<v Speaker 2>you should have had lost, make no mistake, both Syria

1178
01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:52.800
<v Speaker 2>and Egypt would have gained territory, but there would not

1179
01:07:52.840 --> 01:07:54.639
<v Speaker 2>have been a new Arab Muslim state. And wore no,

1180
01:07:54.679 --> 01:07:57.480
<v Speaker 2>of course not there wasn't a conception of the Palestinian

1181
01:07:57.840 --> 01:08:01.639
<v Speaker 2>national identity. Then that would have been mh. They were

1182
01:08:01.719 --> 01:08:04.079
<v Speaker 2>living from nineteen forty eight to nice sixty seven. There was,

1183
01:08:04.159 --> 01:08:06.880
<v Speaker 2>they were. It was part of Jordan's so uh, there

1184
01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:11.760
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't They would have probably split it up. I mean

1185
01:08:11.840 --> 01:08:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Jordan would have taken a lot. Uh, yeah, there wasn't.

1186
01:08:14.880 --> 01:08:24.560
<v Speaker 2>I agree with that. Or cite some in Hebrew that

1187
01:08:25.399 --> 01:08:29.640
<v Speaker 2>we'repe Jews are above them of astrology and above the stars.

1188
01:08:29.760 --> 01:08:33.640
<v Speaker 2>But there's Kuote, there's co hosts and the tuma, et cetera.

1189
01:08:36.760 --> 01:08:43.079
<v Speaker 2>He's reading, Actually, I think you're reading directly from I

1190
01:08:43.119 --> 01:08:46.640
<v Speaker 2>think you're reading directly from I can't. I don't have

1191
01:08:46.760 --> 01:08:48.680
<v Speaker 2>it here is are you reading? I don't know what

1192
01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:51.199
<v Speaker 2>you're quoting. If you're quoting from yarkom Nesky, but he's

1193
01:08:51.239 --> 01:08:55.439
<v Speaker 2>not the Yes, yes you're reading. Yes, I think you're

1194
01:08:55.479 --> 01:08:57.479
<v Speaker 2>reading from Narco komensk Uh.

1195
01:08:57.640 --> 01:08:58.000
<v Speaker 3>No you're not.

1196
01:08:58.119 --> 01:08:58.680
<v Speaker 2>You're not dreaming.

1197
01:08:58.720 --> 01:09:00.720
<v Speaker 3>So but did you find this deeper?

1198
01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:05.319
<v Speaker 2>Charitable Dove says, can we then justify hagiographies because they

1199
01:09:05.359 --> 01:09:09.600
<v Speaker 2>perhaps necessary beliefs, at least according to those authors. That's

1200
01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:12.319
<v Speaker 2>in my book on the censorship. That's what I was

1201
01:09:12.319 --> 01:09:16.199
<v Speaker 2>accused of doing, and I believe so. I believe that

1202
01:09:16.279 --> 01:09:18.840
<v Speaker 2>for certain communities don't we do this with our children.

1203
01:09:19.279 --> 01:09:21.399
<v Speaker 2>When you tell your children's stories, do you tell them

1204
01:09:22.000 --> 01:09:26.159
<v Speaker 2>all the facts? My father always gave the example that

1205
01:09:26.319 --> 01:09:28.920
<v Speaker 2>you know in in elementary school, in high school, we

1206
01:09:29.000 --> 01:09:30.640
<v Speaker 2>tell them that the Civil War is for to free

1207
01:09:30.680 --> 01:09:34.600
<v Speaker 2>the slaves. Then now, when you get more advanced, you

1208
01:09:34.680 --> 01:09:36.520
<v Speaker 2>realize that I was much more complicated than that, that

1209
01:09:36.600 --> 01:09:39.479
<v Speaker 2>Lincoln was not an abolitionist. So yes, when we tell

1210
01:09:39.520 --> 01:09:41.479
<v Speaker 2>our children, we tell don't tell them all the facts.

1211
01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:44.079
<v Speaker 2>We don't tell them all the all the details. So

1212
01:09:44.239 --> 01:09:47.760
<v Speaker 2>in certain communities, if the if the if the leaders

1213
01:09:47.800 --> 01:09:50.840
<v Speaker 2>in those communities believe that the individuals should be kept

1214
01:09:50.880 --> 01:09:53.079
<v Speaker 2>ignorant and should be kept at the level of children.

1215
01:09:53.520 --> 01:09:57.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm sophisticated. I it doesn't bother me. These biographies do

1216
01:09:57.399 --> 01:10:00.560
<v Speaker 2>not bother me at all, because in those communities that's

1217
01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:04.800
<v Speaker 2>what they feel is necessary. So the Rambum wasn't necessary.

1218
01:10:05.880 --> 01:10:10.079
<v Speaker 2>An elitist, No, that Rambum was definitely an elitist. He's

1219
01:10:10.079 --> 01:10:13.119
<v Speaker 2>an overt elitist. He says explicitly in a Missiontara that,

1220
01:10:13.239 --> 01:10:16.000
<v Speaker 2>for instance, the philosophy, it's only people who have filled

1221
01:10:16.000 --> 01:10:19.199
<v Speaker 2>their bellies with tomwood, so it's only for the elites.

1222
01:10:19.680 --> 01:10:21.920
<v Speaker 2>So he's definitely an elitist. However, the rambum is a

1223
01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:24.720
<v Speaker 2>community leader. He's not an ivory tower person like you

1224
01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:28.359
<v Speaker 2>take these other philosophers. You have the Islamic philosophers of

1225
01:10:28.520 --> 01:10:34.680
<v Speaker 2>Arrowize Alfarabi people like that. The Rambam is a communal leader.

1226
01:10:35.199 --> 01:10:37.319
<v Speaker 2>So the Rambam has to be on two levels. He

1227
01:10:37.399 --> 01:10:40.239
<v Speaker 2>has to be for the people, but he's also writing

1228
01:10:40.399 --> 01:10:42.279
<v Speaker 2>for the elites. And as I said, he's overt. He

1229
01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:45.960
<v Speaker 2>says it explicitly that the certain things are only for

1230
01:10:46.119 --> 01:10:49.239
<v Speaker 2>the elites. And how do you write only for the elites?

1231
01:10:50.000 --> 01:10:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Because if you're writing and anyone can read it, especially

1232
01:10:52.000 --> 01:10:54.079
<v Speaker 2>since he wrote the more Lui in Arabic. So he

1233
01:10:54.119 --> 01:10:56.000
<v Speaker 2>says in the introduction of the morning, he's going to

1234
01:10:56.039 --> 01:10:57.880
<v Speaker 2>contradict himself. He's going to write like in a code.

1235
01:10:58.359 --> 01:11:01.199
<v Speaker 2>He's going to contradict himself so that only the elites

1236
01:11:01.199 --> 01:11:03.279
<v Speaker 2>will be able to see what he's saying. The masses,

1237
01:11:03.279 --> 01:11:05.159
<v Speaker 2>it will go right over their heads. They won't even

1238
01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:08.079
<v Speaker 2>notice the contradiction. So that's how the rom bomb came

1239
01:11:08.159 --> 01:11:09.800
<v Speaker 2>up with his approach.

1240
01:11:10.239 --> 01:11:10.880
<v Speaker 3>Buru says, not.

1241
01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:14.039
<v Speaker 2>Everyone can be can handle being told to abavach Rebi

1242
01:11:14.159 --> 01:11:17.439
<v Speaker 2>is Mashiah. So the Rebbe's proceeding don't always reveal it.

1243
01:11:18.640 --> 01:11:21.479
<v Speaker 2>I don't think that's the parallel Burro. I think the

1244
01:11:21.560 --> 01:11:25.119
<v Speaker 2>ones who don't reveal it, it's because there they think

1245
01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:27.640
<v Speaker 2>that they won't the people will stop donating money to

1246
01:11:27.760 --> 01:11:32.760
<v Speaker 2>them because they won't realize that their local rabbat houses

1247
01:11:34.359 --> 01:11:37.840
<v Speaker 2>is Messianic. But I have to say that I am

1248
01:11:37.960 --> 01:11:40.319
<v Speaker 2>certain that the abbot houses I know that I'm in

1249
01:11:40.359 --> 01:11:43.199
<v Speaker 2>my town and others are not. So. I know some

1250
01:11:43.319 --> 01:11:50.479
<v Speaker 2>people are cynical, but not all Aabaud believe that. Does

1251
01:11:50.520 --> 01:11:53.079
<v Speaker 2>anyone have a link er of hankin Slavaya on YouTube?

1252
01:11:53.119 --> 01:11:53.479
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

1253
01:11:53.560 --> 01:11:54.960
<v Speaker 2>I didn't see it. I would like to see it.

1254
01:11:55.079 --> 01:11:57.720
<v Speaker 2>Nell says, the PLO was established a few years before

1255
01:11:57.880 --> 01:12:01.159
<v Speaker 2>sixty seven. Yeah, the PLO was established. It was created

1256
01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:04.600
<v Speaker 2>by the Arab countries as a as a as a

1257
01:12:04.720 --> 01:12:10.520
<v Speaker 2>proxy to destroy. It was created to destroy Israel. There

1258
01:12:10.560 --> 01:12:13.960
<v Speaker 2>has nothing to do with the West Bank occupied territories

1259
01:12:14.039 --> 01:12:17.680
<v Speaker 2>or anything uh our factor. These were all created. These

1260
01:12:17.760 --> 01:12:20.039
<v Speaker 2>were created by the Arabs and really by the KGB.

1261
01:12:21.000 --> 01:12:24.399
<v Speaker 2>The whole, the whole, this whole Palestinian movement is created

1262
01:12:24.479 --> 01:12:27.520
<v Speaker 2>by by the Arabs and by the KGB to try

1263
01:12:27.600 --> 01:12:34.520
<v Speaker 2>to basically destroy Israel, and for the sake of historical accuracy,

1264
01:12:34.640 --> 01:12:37.520
<v Speaker 2>had the idea. It's often bandied about, however, that there's

1265
01:12:37.680 --> 01:12:41.800
<v Speaker 2>no conception of Palestinian nationalism before. That I think is incorrect,

1266
01:12:41.880 --> 01:12:46.239
<v Speaker 2>because you already see Hajomina Husseini, he was the leader

1267
01:12:46.319 --> 01:12:49.680
<v Speaker 2>of the Palestinian national movement. There was a sense, even

1268
01:12:49.720 --> 01:12:53.840
<v Speaker 2>if these people were Syrians and others. We have on

1269
01:12:54.039 --> 01:12:57.000
<v Speaker 2>record the Syrian Foreign Minister saying that we created the

1270
01:12:57.039 --> 01:13:00.079
<v Speaker 2>Palestinian people as a as a as a proper and

1271
01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:03.960
<v Speaker 2>a tool. However, there was at least the beginnings of

1272
01:13:03.960 --> 01:13:06.760
<v Speaker 2>a Palestinian national identity. I mean the Haja mean now

1273
01:13:06.800 --> 01:13:10.199
<v Speaker 2>Husseini is uh is really the founder. We're one of

1274
01:13:10.239 --> 01:13:13.039
<v Speaker 2>the founders of the whole Palestinian national movement. So it's

1275
01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:15.680
<v Speaker 2>not well, what would have happened is the Arabs where

1276
01:13:15.800 --> 01:13:18.279
<v Speaker 2>Jordan would have taken over Syria, and then they would

1277
01:13:18.319 --> 01:13:21.600
<v Speaker 2>have had to put down the Palestinian national stories. I

1278
01:13:21.640 --> 01:13:24.720
<v Speaker 2>think it's historically inaccurate to say that there was no

1279
01:13:25.239 --> 01:13:31.199
<v Speaker 2>Palestinian nationalism before, you know, before the sixties, and that

1280
01:13:31.359 --> 01:13:36.359
<v Speaker 2>it's all creation of the destroy all creation in the

1281
01:13:36.439 --> 01:13:41.439
<v Speaker 2>nineteen sixties. But and I'll just add do well, if

1282
01:13:41.479 --> 01:13:45.000
<v Speaker 2>you don't know hajjaman Osani. Of course he spent the

1283
01:13:45.079 --> 01:13:51.039
<v Speaker 2>war years in Berlin and Hitler maybe the only non

1284
01:13:51.159 --> 01:13:54.760
<v Speaker 2>German that the plan to reveal was revealed for the

1285
01:13:54.800 --> 01:13:56.880
<v Speaker 2>plan of the final solution. It was revealed, and we

1286
01:13:56.960 --> 01:14:01.359
<v Speaker 2>have a complete protocol of this. It's it's significant that

1287
01:14:01.520 --> 01:14:05.359
<v Speaker 2>Hitler chose to reveal this to hajjo Mina Hossein, who

1288
01:14:05.439 --> 01:14:07.880
<v Speaker 2>was not an Aryan. But as they say, he had

1289
01:14:07.880 --> 01:14:11.199
<v Speaker 2>the same goals as the arguing, you know, uh killed

1290
01:14:11.239 --> 01:14:16.000
<v Speaker 2>the Jews and destroy the democracies. So that's an important point.

1291
01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:21.640
<v Speaker 2>David Dowen the one with this, David Dollen, professor in

1292
01:14:22.039 --> 01:14:27.800
<v Speaker 2>in Florida. He wrote a book. It's actually it's the

1293
01:14:27.960 --> 01:14:31.159
<v Speaker 2>two things. It's a defense of Pope Pious. He thinks

1294
01:14:31.199 --> 01:14:33.800
<v Speaker 2>that and David Dallin's a deserved rabbi as well, that

1295
01:14:33.920 --> 01:14:36.439
<v Speaker 2>Pope Pious was given a bad rap and there's all

1296
01:14:36.520 --> 01:14:38.239
<v Speaker 2>this attacks on Pope Pious for what he didn't do

1297
01:14:38.319 --> 01:14:41.159
<v Speaker 2>during the Holocaust. His argument is he did more than

1298
01:14:41.199 --> 01:14:43.800
<v Speaker 2>people think, and that it wasn't that he's evil, maybe

1299
01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:46.880
<v Speaker 2>he's incompetent, but he says all these attacks against Pope Pius,

1300
01:14:47.239 --> 01:14:49.720
<v Speaker 2>we forget the true villain, the real villain, and that

1301
01:14:49.960 --> 01:14:52.640
<v Speaker 2>is no other than Hajjo Mina Hosseini, who really was

1302
01:14:53.439 --> 01:14:55.520
<v Speaker 2>an ally of the Nazis. When you think about it,

1303
01:14:55.960 --> 01:14:59.399
<v Speaker 2>the founding father of the Palestinian National Movement was an

1304
01:14:59.439 --> 01:15:05.000
<v Speaker 2>ally with the allied with the Nazis. And okay, we

1305
01:15:05.119 --> 01:15:08.600
<v Speaker 2>will end uh with this ipats Is hit We're awarded

1306
01:15:08.880 --> 01:15:11.479
<v Speaker 2>honorary Orion stars and some Japanese who's saying yes. You

1307
01:15:11.520 --> 01:15:14.800
<v Speaker 2>can see a video of hajo min Hosseini visiting. They

1308
01:15:14.920 --> 01:15:21.479
<v Speaker 2>brought in there were you had Bosnian. The officers were Serbian,

1309
01:15:22.079 --> 01:15:27.119
<v Speaker 2>but Bosnian. They raised a poncer division of Bosnian SS troops,

1310
01:15:27.960 --> 01:15:29.199
<v Speaker 2>so you had Bosnians.

1311
01:15:29.800 --> 01:15:30.680
<v Speaker 3>The Muslims.

1312
01:15:30.680 --> 01:15:33.279
<v Speaker 2>They ever bring him in from all over the Muslim

1313
01:15:33.359 --> 01:15:36.000
<v Speaker 2>world to fight on the side of Hitler. This is

1314
01:15:36.039 --> 01:15:37.840
<v Speaker 2>sort of like the Unknown Story.

1315
01:15:40.960 --> 01:15:43.800
<v Speaker 1>This series was originally recorded in twenty twenty and twenty

1316
01:15:43.840 --> 01:15:46.720
<v Speaker 1>twenty one as part of an ongoing lecture series. To

1317
01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:48.720
<v Speaker 1>sign up to attend the electure on zoom, please visit

1318
01:15:48.800 --> 01:15:51.920
<v Speaker 1>torenmotion dot org. Please rate and review us in your paper,

1319
01:15:52.039 --> 01:15:54.199
<v Speaker 1>podcast that, or even better, tell a friend to give

1320
01:15:54.239 --> 01:16:01.600
<v Speaker 1>a podcast to listen. The thing then tacked their name