WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:01.000 Dot Org. 2 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:10.919 KCAA is your CNBC News affiliate where the station that 3 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:13.080 gets down to business. 4 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:18.760 The views and opinions expressed by individuals on the following 5 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:22.160 program do not necessarily reflect those of the network. Guys 6 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:26.719 Guy Radio and its platforms. 7 00:00:28.359 --> 00:00:35.320 It's Guys Guy Radio. Here's your host, Robert Manny. 8 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:40.920 Welcome to Guys Guys Radio. This is your host, Robert Manny, 9 00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:44.079 welcoming you to the show where men and women can 10 00:00:44.119 --> 00:00:47.640 be at their best and everyone wins. Guys Guys Radio. 11 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:52.079 We're here to inform you, inspire you, empower you, and 12 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:55.560 get you to think, feel, and who knows, maybe even 13 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:59.560 act by virtue of the journeys, stories, experiences and insights 14 00:00:59.840 --> 00:01:01.920 of the guests I bring you each and every week 15 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:05.000 to the show. And once again this week is no exception. 16 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:07.719 Today we're going to talk about sports, and we're going 17 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:10.680 to talk about in particular, the New York Yankees, and 18 00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:13.840 in particular we're going to talk about the Steinbrenners, The 19 00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:18.120 Bosses of the Bronx, the new book by sports editor 20 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:20.959 of The New York Post, Mike Vaccaro. Mike is joining 21 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:23.920 us to talk about this wonderful book about the endless 22 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:27.480 drama of the Yankees under the House of Steinbrenner. It's 23 00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:29.959 a fun read, it's a fun topic. I'm a huge 24 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:33.159 sports fan, as you may have picked up by watching 25 00:01:33.239 --> 00:01:35.599 or listening to the show. And I'm a huge Yankee 26 00:01:35.680 --> 00:01:37.840 fan because I grew up in northern New Jersey and 27 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:41.840 my folks introduced me to baseball by taking my brother 28 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:44.920 and I to the Yankees old timers Get Day game 29 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:48.120 year after year, and I've been a fan ever since, 30 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:51.359 even as I've moved to southern California and I'm a 31 00:01:51.400 --> 00:01:54.840 Padres fan now also, but in my heart, I'll always 32 00:01:54.920 --> 00:01:57.799 be a Yankees fan. So many trips to Yankee Stadium, 33 00:01:57.920 --> 00:02:01.640 so many memories over the years, great times with great friends. 34 00:02:01.640 --> 00:02:04.159 And today we're going to talk about one of the 35 00:02:04.280 --> 00:02:07.280 key figures behind the resurrection, if you will, of the 36 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:10.560 New York Yankees, George Steinbrenner and his son Hal right 37 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.719 here this week's Guys Guys Radio. I think you're going 38 00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:17.520 to really enjoy the conversation. You know, the Yankees happened 39 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:20.120 won a World Series since two thousand and nine. What 40 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:24.360 happened we're gonna find out, was George Spinebrenner, the last 41 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:28.599 true sports owner willing to do anything to win. Maybe not, 42 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:31.520 but we're gonna find out. And have the Yankees become 43 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:35.039 too corporate to dominate baseball again? I don't think so, 44 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:38.280 but we're gonna find out. All from sports editor and 45 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:40.680 author of the new book The Bosses of the Bronx, 46 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:45.240 Mike Facaro right here on this week's Guys Guys Radio. 47 00:02:45.800 --> 00:02:47.400 It's Guys Guy Radio. 48 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:52.199 Okay, guys guys Radio. It is the interview portion of 49 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:55.719 our show, and today we're heading into the heart of 50 00:02:55.840 --> 00:03:01.439 baseball royalty, power, money, family, legacy, and relentless pressure that 51 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:04.680 comes with wearing pinstripes. Our guest is a legendary sports 52 00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:08.479 columnist and author, Mike Vaccaro, lead columnist for The New 53 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:11.240 York Post and author of the new book. I'll hold 54 00:03:11.240 --> 00:03:12.800 it up right here because I'm in the middle of 55 00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:15.319 reading it, The Bosses of the Bronx, and I got 56 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:18.039 to tell you it is fantastic. It's a great If 57 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:20.680 you're a Yankees fan, you cannot miss this book. And 58 00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:22.719 if you're not, and you want to know what the 59 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:25.879 fascination is with the Yankees and George Steinbrenner and his son, 60 00:03:26.360 --> 00:03:29.520 read this book, The Bosses of the Bronx. Now, Mike 61 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:33.120 takes us inside the fascinating and often turbulent story of 62 00:03:33.159 --> 00:03:36.520 the New York Yankees and the Steinberger family dynasty, from 63 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:40.840 George's fiery rain and obsession with winning, to how Steinbrenner 64 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:44.919 is more measured corporate leadership style in today's analytics driven era. 65 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:49.479 We'll talk championships, pressure, money, ego, loyalty. We'll talk about 66 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:52.879 everyone from Reggie Jackson to Juan Soto, and if you 67 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:57.520 love baseball leadership, New York sports history, or family dynasties, 68 00:03:57.639 --> 00:04:00.000 this is going to be a great conversation. So let's 69 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.080 meet Mike Vaccaro. Welcome to Guys Guys Radio. 70 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:06.240 Thank you, Roberts. Good to be with you today. 71 00:04:06.400 --> 00:04:08.439 So let's start right at the beginning. I mean this 72 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:10.039 is there's been a lot of books that have been 73 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:14.360 written about the Steinbrenner's and George in particular and the Yankees. 74 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:17.120 So what inspired you to write this one. I know 75 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:20.959 everybody's familiar with Bill Madden's biography of George, but this 76 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:22.040 is a little bit different. 77 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:23.920 Yeah, you know, I didn't want to set up to 78 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:26.279 write a biography, Robert, because, like you said, Mad wrote 79 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:29.000 a biography. Dick Schapp years earlier, had done a very 80 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.759 good biography of him. This isn't biography as much as 81 00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:33.839 the slice of New York life. I think from nineteen 82 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:37.000 seventy three on, which is when Steinbinterer and his partners 83 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:39.560 bought the Yankees on the way all the way to today, 84 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:43.120 where how you know, oversees the old kingdom that his 85 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:46.920 father created. I think part of what inspired me was to, 86 00:04:47.680 --> 00:04:49.560 you know, kind of give a real full accounting for 87 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:52.240 a lot of people. You know, we're sixteen years past 88 00:04:52.279 --> 00:04:54.279 George's death now. I think a lot of people only 89 00:04:54.319 --> 00:04:57.759 remember him as the kindly old man who would walk 90 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:00.600 in the Yankee Stadium and be drowned in cheers and 91 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:03.040 guys like you and you remember that about ten years 92 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:05.360 before that he would walk into the Yankee Stadium and 93 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:07.319 the noise would be different, and the words would be different, 94 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:10.120 the sentiment would be different. But people don't remember that, 95 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:12.480 you know, either they're too young to have gone through that, 96 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:15.240 or you know, some people like to use selective indisia 97 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:17.040 and only choose to remember the stuff at the end. 98 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:21.040 And you know, it was it was a fascinating thirty 99 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:24.920 seven years that George owned the team, fascinating time in 100 00:05:25.399 --> 00:05:29.519 baseball in New York, in the country, specifically with the Yankees, 101 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:32.120 and you know, he rescued the Yankees from near oblivion 102 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:34.879 to where they're one of the top friends in the 103 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:38.720 whole world, you know, baseball, sports and otherwise. And I 104 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:41.120 thought it was a certainly a just story and worth 105 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:42.759 preserving between the covers of a book. 106 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:45.800 Well, you did an amazing job, and the attention to 107 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:49.040 detail is incredible and the writing style is wonderful. So 108 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:52.279 thank you for putting this together. I'm thoroughly enjoying it night. 109 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:54.879 I don't always say that to my guests unless I 110 00:05:54.920 --> 00:05:57.199 really mean it, and this time I do, and I highly. 111 00:05:57.199 --> 00:05:59.240 I appreciate it. I appreciate that. Thank you. 112 00:05:59.360 --> 00:06:03.519 It's terrific. So let's start with Steinbredder himself. There's some 113 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:07.000 owners just really transcend their sports they're involved in. Nowadays 114 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:09.600 we have and you love him or you hate him, 115 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:11.720 or a little bit of both. Today we've got like 116 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:15.959 Jerry Jones with the Cowboys. Before that, you had George Steinbrenner. 117 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:18.720 Before him, maybe in a more cartoonish way, you had 118 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:24.000 Charlie Finley. What makes George Steinbrenner so special and what 119 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:27.480 was the most surprising thing you found out about him 120 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:29.480 when you were doing the research for this book. 121 00:06:30.040 --> 00:06:32.680 You know, I think what made him so special is 122 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:34.240 that he really was a one of one. I mean, 123 00:06:34.279 --> 00:06:36.120 there wasn't a you know, yes you can you could 124 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.120 liken a lot of owners to him. You know, I 125 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:41.040 think you did. You know, you're right. Jerry Jones is 126 00:06:41.040 --> 00:06:44.160 obviously a high profile owner, although mostly he doesn't say 127 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:47.319 silly things publicly. A couple of times a week. Charlie 128 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:50.759 Finley was very close to what George became. He just 129 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:52.759 never had the resources behind him, and he was doing 130 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:55.920 when he was doing in Oakland, California, rather than New York, 131 00:06:56.040 --> 00:06:58.160 so he was a little a little more muted. 132 00:06:59.319 --> 00:06:59.519 You know. 133 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.120 I think the thing that surprised me about learning about 134 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:06.079 George was just how profoundly he was responsible for making 135 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:08.959 sure that the Yankees remained the New York Yankees, you know, 136 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:11.319 when you know part of the reason why he was 137 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:14.480 picked by CBS and his group was picked by CBS 138 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.399 to to get the team. They didn't have the highest bid, 139 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:19.319 but they were the one with the loudest voice, you know, 140 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:21.680 guaranteeing the New York that the Yankees were stay in 141 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:24.000 New York. They already kind of had one fit out 142 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:26.759 the door, following the Giants to New Jersey, where there 143 00:07:26.759 --> 00:07:29.920 were other options. New Orleans was a prominent option, and 144 00:07:29.959 --> 00:07:31.800 you know, a lot of the groups that were bidding 145 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:34.680 more money were pretty adamant that they were probably going 146 00:07:34.720 --> 00:07:38.279 to abandon the South Bronx. William Paley, the legendary chairman 147 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:40.600 of CBS, who already knew that part of his habituator 148 00:07:40.680 --> 00:07:42.720 was going to read that he'd let the Yankees kind 149 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:44.879 of crumble. He also didn't want to be known as 150 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:46.959 the guy who let the Yankees leave New York, and 151 00:07:47.000 --> 00:07:49.680 that was appealing to him. And so as a result, 152 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:52.199 you know, George's group got the team for eight point 153 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:55.279 eight million dollars, which is a staggering number. And the 154 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:58.000 more staggering number is the George himself butut of about 155 00:07:58.000 --> 00:07:59.959 one hundred and sixty eight thousand dollars of his own money, 156 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:03.399 which is really remarkable. He consider the fact that by 157 00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:05.519 the time he died thirty seven years later, he was 158 00:08:05.560 --> 00:08:09.439 a confirmed billionaire. So it's you know, I think that's 159 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:11.600 one of the things that you forget. Because George had 160 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:13.560 his own alliances with New Jersey but for the most 161 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:15.720 part that was all done in the interest of making 162 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:18.040 sure the new Yankee Stadium would get built, which it did. 163 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:19.639 He would have liked it to have been built a 164 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:22.000 couple of years before that. But there was some real 165 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.519 sentiment because the Yankees were the number two team in 166 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:26.800 town and it wasn't close when he bought the team 167 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:28.959 in ninety seventy three. The Mets out through the Yankees 168 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:32.360 two and a half to one. Most years, they were 169 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:35.080 the team in New York. And you know, George wanted 170 00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:38.080 to change that. George did change that, and you know, 171 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:39.919 through the sheer will of his personality, they were in 172 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:41.320 the World Series three years later. 173 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:44.399 Now what were And he had promised that that he 174 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:46.200 would give me three years and he would do that. 175 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:48.679 So what are some what are the things? What are 176 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.759 the key steps he took to transform the Yankees first 177 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:54.519 of all into a championship team once again, and then 178 00:08:54.559 --> 00:08:57.320 to really transcend baseball and make the Yankees really a 179 00:08:57.360 --> 00:08:58.559 true global brand. 180 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:01.320 Well, the guy who brought into the Yankees basically was 181 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:04.480 Gay Paul, who was a longtime baseball man who George 182 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:07.559 knew from Cleveland. George almost bought to Cleveland Indians a 183 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:09.120 couple of years before that, so we got to know 184 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:12.840 Gate Paul. Paul was just was a baseball life for 185 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:15.480 a guy who had done every job in professional baseball, 186 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:18.799 had ever actually gotten the team the team of his dreams. 187 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:21.039 I mean, he had helped build the sixty one Reads, 188 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:22.519 but he was gone by the time that team went 189 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:24.799 to the World Series, and you know, tell you tough 190 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:27.759 financial times in Cleveland kind of hampered him there. So 191 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:30.639 when he was given the opportunity to find the Yankees 192 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:33.399 for George, and then George reciprocated by bringing him a 193 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:36.559 board as first the GM and waiting and then later 194 00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:40.879 the GM in full, that was really a huge moment 195 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:42.720 for George. You know, you know. One of the things 196 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:45.159 that George did, but he was low key not giving 197 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:49.360 a lot of credit for, was he identified solid baseball people. 198 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:51.759 He didn't always listen to them, and usually when the 199 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:54.559 Yankees ran off the tracks, it's when he stopped listening 200 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:57.679 to his baseball people and became his own baseball subcommittee. 201 00:09:57.919 --> 00:09:59.679 But when he listened to his own people and look 202 00:09:59.679 --> 00:10:01.480 at me. Helped along by the fact that George was 203 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:04.480 suspended from baseball for seventy four and seventy five. So 204 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:07.440 Gay Paul is basically allowed to build that team, you know, 205 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:10.679 with George not hectoring him every day, and he did. 206 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:12.559 You know, he was responsible for the bones of that 207 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:15.519 team that wound up winning two championships later on. It 208 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:18.120 was the same thing with Stick Michael. You know, Stick 209 00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:21.360 Michael was a great baseball man along the same profile 210 00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:25.159 Gate Paul, and exactly the same opportunity. George was suspended 211 00:10:25.159 --> 00:10:27.720 a second time for two years, and during those two years, 212 00:10:27.720 --> 00:10:31.720 as when is when Stick Michael was able to rebuild 213 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:34.200 the team without the interference from above that he normally 214 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:36.559 would have had. And you know, so you can maybe 215 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:40.399 to duck points from George's tenure for not always being 216 00:10:40.440 --> 00:10:43.720 willing to follow a winning plan, a winning model. But 217 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:45.320 you know, we would have had, you know, half the 218 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:47.039 stories in the book, and probably no book at all 219 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:48.559 if George wasn't the kind of guy who thought that 220 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:50.440 he was the smartest guy in every room. 221 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:54.080 Now, George's approach Mike is a little bit different than 222 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:57.559 some of the owners take in today's sports world because 223 00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:00.440 he believed in star power. I mean, there's nothing knew 224 00:11:00.440 --> 00:11:06.639 about that nowadays it's still important, but he really was 225 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:10.360 focused on star power at the expense of the minor 226 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:13.679 league developing talent for a good portion at time. However, 227 00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:16.399 the team in around ninety six all came out of 228 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:19.120 the Yankee system. How do you kind of balance that? 229 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:22.159 Well, look, I mean, George was the one who to 230 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:25.440 identify Reggie Jackson as the first savior of what his 231 00:11:25.519 --> 00:11:28.519 vision was. And while other people in his organization wanted 232 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:31.720 to go with other they thought smarter signings during that 233 00:11:31.759 --> 00:11:35.440 first free agency class of seventy six seventy seven, George said, flatly, 234 00:11:35.480 --> 00:11:38.440 reggilarly put fannies in the seats. He understood the part 235 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:41.480 the power of stars, and of course he was right. 236 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:43.480 Reggie was a guy who mittally put fannies in the 237 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:48.000 seats immediately delivered a couple of championships. But the problem is, 238 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:50.000 I mean, the problem is that there were two Georgias 239 00:11:50.039 --> 00:11:51.960 who ran the team. The one was a smart guy 240 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:56.600 like you mentioned, who was able to entrust lieutenants to 241 00:11:57.200 --> 00:12:00.240 help him build build a great team. Bill farmsist him. 242 00:12:00.480 --> 00:12:03.120 He understood that it was unsustainable to, you know, just 243 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:05.000 buy the best player on the market every year. You 244 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:08.080 needed a farm system that would be able to keep 245 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:11.360 feeding you. And that was smart baseball decisions. He invested 246 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:14.279 in infrastructure before it was fashionable. He invested in the 247 00:12:14.279 --> 00:12:16.559 farm system. The problem is he shared an office with 248 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:20.279 the other George who was the lunatic fan, the impatient, impetuous, 249 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:23.120 lunatic fan. And that was the guy who basically had 250 00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:25.399 the louder voice in the room. And so therefore, you know, 251 00:12:25.480 --> 00:12:27.320 the're older in the eighties, they would they would trade 252 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:30.120 the likes of Fred McGriff and Jay Buhner and William 253 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:33.679 McGee and Doug Graybeck all the interests of trying to 254 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:38.720 pursue a veteran names who were probably four or five 255 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:40.679 years past their prime. And as a result, the Yankees 256 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:43.720 went eighteen years without winning a World Series. And it 257 00:12:43.799 --> 00:12:46.320 wasn't until later on when Stick was kind of the 258 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:48.679 guy who put in the blueprint, We're gonna build around 259 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:51.440 this core of talented players, see where it goes. And 260 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.879 obviously it led to the most recent of all of 261 00:12:53.919 --> 00:12:57.120 our baseball dynasties. And I think that was when George 262 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.360 finally realized that maybe you gotta know kind to stick 263 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:01.759 to take a step back, which is why you know, 264 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:04.600 Brian Casten was the last GM he ever hired, which 265 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.000 is why Joe Torrey was hired in nineteen ninety five 266 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:10.519 and lasted until two thousand and seven, because George realized 267 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:12.759 even George wasn't gonna fire you if he kept winning 268 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:13.240 every year. 269 00:13:14.720 --> 00:13:18.600 George has been very volatile obviously, with changing churning through 270 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:22.960 the managers, almost like you know, tissue paper. Did this 271 00:13:23.559 --> 00:13:26.559 chaos work for him and did it work for the team? 272 00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:31.320 No, it weren't melted not. I mean, the fact of 273 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:32.919 the matter is that that look at me in the 274 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:36.279 the Yankees were the model organization around nineteen eighty one 275 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:38.759 or so, and he was his decision not to bring 276 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:42.279 Riggie Jackson back. He was his decision to after that 277 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:45.720 when they stopped winning penance to start trying to think, 278 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.960 you know, quick fix things, including firing the manager every year, 279 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:51.480 firing the GM every year, firing the pitching coach, firing 280 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:55.840 the pr director always, you know, making Jay Buner for 281 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:59.360 Ken Phelps type deals, which drove you know, Frankestanza and 282 00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:03.159 every other fan crazy. And you know, and the proof 283 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.240 is in the pudding. I mean, look, they they didn't 284 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:07.919 go to the playoffs from nineteen eighty one to ninety five, 285 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:10.480 They didn't win a World series between nineteen seventy eight 286 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:12.799 nineteen ninety six. That's really all you need to know. 287 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:15.200 And that's why it makes me laugh. Now people, you know, whatever, 288 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:16.919 the Aches go on a small losing streak and my 289 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:19.240 inbox get filled with the Yankee fans. You know, what 290 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.039 would George do? What if George is still alive and 291 00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:23.360 they get mad at hal Steinlinner. They don't think that 292 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:26.159 he is quite the urgency that his father had. And 293 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:27.639 you know the fact of the matter is that the 294 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.120 Yankees current drought, if you will want to call it 295 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:33.960 a drought, is sixteen years. Can't counting. You know, George's 296 00:14:34.120 --> 00:14:36.200 I was eighteen. I mean that did not work. The 297 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:39.080 way that Yankee fans believe that a lot of Yankee 298 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.519 fans remember George is not the way it happened. You know, 299 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:43.919 he snapped his fingers all of a sudden. If he 300 00:14:44.000 --> 00:14:46.279 fire somebody, he trade somebody, and boom, they would win 301 00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:48.559 a World series. That's not how it happened. And that's 302 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.080 not how it would happen now. And you know, but 303 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.159 you know what, people have their memories, and people just 304 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:55.399 choose to remember George the way they remember him, and 305 00:14:55.480 --> 00:14:57.159 that's kind of the reason also why I thought this 306 00:14:57.279 --> 00:14:59.279 was a valuable book to have is to remind you 307 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.120 that was it a lot of good when he was 308 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:02.799 when he was the yanking you and a lot of good. 309 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:04.879 A lot of people didn't even know about that he did, 310 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:07.000 but it was very good. He did a lot of bad, 311 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.000 and to me, that's what makes a guy fascinating enough 312 00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:09.519 to write about. 313 00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:14.159 Now, my special guest on Guys Guys Radio sports columnist 314 00:15:14.279 --> 00:15:17.639 New York Post editor Mike Vacarra, we're talking about the 315 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:20.399 new book period is once again the Bosses of the Bronx. 316 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:25.200 There was a time where George put together the winning 317 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:28.519 team when he had seventy seven seventy eight. He got Reggie. 318 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:30.759 That was the you know, that was really the catalyst 319 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:33.720 to those years. And then he held on to some 320 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.080 of those guys a bit Long Gossage and a few others, 321 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.440 and they kind of the team kind of went down 322 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.000 and he had a fascination, of course with Billy Martin, 323 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:47.759 and then they had another mini resurrection when he had Winfield, Maddingly, 324 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.879 guys like and Ricky Henderson. Why do you think that 325 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:57.039 that group did not win the way the Reggie Reggie 326 00:15:57.080 --> 00:15:57.639 group won? 327 00:15:59.399 --> 00:16:01.720 Well, simple series. They didn't have enough pitching. They never 328 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:04.399 had pitching to match the incredible offense they had. I 329 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:07.360 mean the Yankees of those years started every game it 330 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:09.960 seemed like two to nothing because you know, Ricky Henderson 331 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.480 would lead off with a walk, and still second, you know, 332 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:15.720 really Randolphould would we sacrifice and Intervold on the right 333 00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.279 side of the infield again to the third maddeningly second 334 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:20.679 we had to sacrifice Flyre or drive me with a double, 335 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:23.480 and then Winnifield, Winfield drive in madly with a double, 336 00:16:23.960 --> 00:16:25.759 and every game seems start to nothing. But they never 337 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:29.120 had the pitching to back that offense up. And because 338 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:32.279 of that, George got crazy with you know, not just 339 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:34.759 the moves, but also becoming way too involved. I mean, 340 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:37.159 the Yankees that era had a term for it. They 341 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:40.120 called it being georged. You know, they'd be going along fine. 342 00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:42.159 They lose a couple of games, the Tigers are taken 343 00:16:42.200 --> 00:16:44.440 by a half game. All of a sudden, Starmaner would 344 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:46.879 show up and issue was missives and they go into 345 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:49.480 a tailspin. That happened year after year, and he never 346 00:16:49.559 --> 00:16:52.480 learned from his mistakes. The one time he had a 347 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.039 chance to really rectify. This was after the eighty six season, 348 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:57.759 eighty seven going into eighty seven, when he could have 349 00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:01.200 you know, he could have retained Gay bringing Willie Randolph 350 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:03.840 without any penalty, could have gone after Jack Morris chose 351 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:06.559 to sign any of them because he meekly went along 352 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:09.079 with collusion, which is the one time, the one part 353 00:17:09.079 --> 00:17:12.799 of his personality I can't explain because it's completely against 354 00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:17.079 all of George's inner angels that he would have go 355 00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.359 along with the crowd, go along with the commissioner. But 356 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.359 he did. And so that that also didn't help at 357 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:25.599 all because they had a great chance to win that 358 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:27.400 year on the next year and just they didn't have 359 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.039 Jack Morris and the Tigers did, which is basically what 360 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.640 the what the story was told there. So you know 361 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.839 that's the difference. And the fact is, you know in 362 00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:39.920 the seventies that the Yankees were filled with teams. I'd 363 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:41.720 love to go back at George. I mean, Reggie would 364 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:44.319 always answer George back, you know, the manager of course, 365 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:46.640 would more than anybody else. But you had third Months 366 00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:50.240 and Gooscalches. These guys had no problem engaging with George 367 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:53.279 Greg Nettles, and you know, George liked that. You know, 368 00:17:53.319 --> 00:17:55.440 he didn't like the fact that he would rip Dave Winfield, 369 00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:57.599 and Winfield will smile and say, well, as long as 370 00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:59.119 the man pays me on the first and the fifteenth, 371 00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:01.880 all's good by me. That's not how George liked him. 372 00:18:02.279 --> 00:18:04.480 He got frustrated. I think that helped, you know, explain 373 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.039 maybe why he wanted to get more involved, because he 374 00:18:07.119 --> 00:18:08.640 just didn't think he had the same kind of battle 375 00:18:08.720 --> 00:18:11.960 as they had before. I think it's a it's it's 376 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:14.200 pretty simple. They just didn't have quite the pitching that 377 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:16.960 that they needed in order to compete in the American 378 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:17.839 League in those years. 379 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:20.400 Now, why why do you think that's the case, Mike? 380 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:23.440 I mean, he had brilliant baseball minds around him, and 381 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:26.480 George was no dummy. He understood how the game is played. 382 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:29.799 He had guys like Don Baylor and Winfield and Mattingly 383 00:18:29.960 --> 00:18:34.079 and Ricky, but he couldn't win. What why why not 384 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:35.759 get the best pitchers? 385 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:37.920 But like I said, the one time, the one shot, 386 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:39.960 he had a chance to make everything right, he chose 387 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.519 to go along with collusion, which is something I'm sure 388 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:44.119 that he would tell you he read it later on. 389 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:47.160 Although he never wanted to go on the record, you know, countermanding, 390 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:49.599 whatever Peter Youbarov was trying to do in those years. 391 00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:52.440 But you know, I mean, pitching is not an easy 392 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:54.720 thing to acquire. I mean later on they tried to, 393 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.920 you know, add Greg Maddox when he was out of baseball, 394 00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:00.759 they finished second for him. They tried for years to 395 00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:04.279 build a staff and they just couldn't do it. You know, 396 00:19:04.440 --> 00:19:06.920 I mean, I think, I think it's easier to build 397 00:19:07.480 --> 00:19:10.160 a powerful offense in Yankee Stadium the way the dimensions are, 398 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:12.680 but it is a pitching staff. And they just kept 399 00:19:12.680 --> 00:19:16.160 throwing you know, failed rotations at the wind, and they 400 00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:18.519 just weren't able to connect in the way that the 401 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:23.480