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Speaker 4: It's Guys Guy Radio. Here's your host, Robert Manny.
Speaker 5: Welcome to Guys Guys Radio. This is your host, Robert Manny,
Speaker 5: welcoming you to the show where men and women can
Speaker 5: be at their best and everyone wins. Guys Guys Radio.
Speaker 5: We're here to inform you, inspire you, empower you, and
Speaker 5: get you to think, feel, and who knows, maybe even
Speaker 5: act by virtue of the journeys, stories, experiences and insights
Speaker 5: of the guests I bring you each and every week
Speaker 5: to the show. And once again this week is no exception.
Speaker 5: Today we're going to talk about sports, and we're going
Speaker 5: to talk about in particular, the New York Yankees, and
Speaker 5: in particular we're going to talk about the Steinbrenners, The
Speaker 5: Bosses of the Bronx, the new book by sports editor
Speaker 5: of The New York Post, Mike Vaccaro. Mike is joining
Speaker 5: us to talk about this wonderful book about the endless
Speaker 5: drama of the Yankees under the House of Steinbrenner. It's
Speaker 5: a fun read, it's a fun topic. I'm a huge
Speaker 5: sports fan, as you may have picked up by watching
Speaker 5: or listening to the show. And I'm a huge Yankee
Speaker 5: fan because I grew up in northern New Jersey and
Speaker 5: my folks introduced me to baseball by taking my brother
Speaker 5: and I to the Yankees old timers Get Day game
Speaker 5: year after year, and I've been a fan ever since,
Speaker 5: even as I've moved to southern California and I'm a
Speaker 5: Padres fan now also, but in my heart, I'll always
Speaker 5: be a Yankees fan. So many trips to Yankee Stadium,
Speaker 5: so many memories over the years, great times with great friends.
Speaker 5: And today we're going to talk about one of the
Speaker 5: key figures behind the resurrection, if you will, of the
Speaker 5: New York Yankees, George Steinbrenner and his son Hal right
Speaker 5: here this week's Guys Guys Radio. I think you're going
Speaker 5: to really enjoy the conversation. You know, the Yankees happened
Speaker 5: won a World Series since two thousand and nine. What
Speaker 5: happened we're gonna find out, was George Spinebrenner, the last
Speaker 5: true sports owner willing to do anything to win. Maybe not,
Speaker 5: but we're gonna find out. And have the Yankees become
Speaker 5: too corporate to dominate baseball again? I don't think so,
Speaker 5: but we're gonna find out. All from sports editor and
Speaker 5: author of the new book The Bosses of the Bronx,
Speaker 5: Mike Facaro right here on this week's Guys Guys Radio.
Speaker 4: It's Guys Guy Radio.
Speaker 5: Okay, guys guys Radio. It is the interview portion of
Speaker 5: our show, and today we're heading into the heart of
Speaker 5: baseball royalty, power, money, family, legacy, and relentless pressure that
Speaker 5: comes with wearing pinstripes. Our guest is a legendary sports
Speaker 5: columnist and author, Mike Vaccaro, lead columnist for The New
Speaker 5: York Post and author of the new book. I'll hold
Speaker 5: it up right here because I'm in the middle of
Speaker 5: reading it, The Bosses of the Bronx, and I got
Speaker 5: to tell you it is fantastic. It's a great If
Speaker 5: you're a Yankees fan, you cannot miss this book. And
Speaker 5: if you're not, and you want to know what the
Speaker 5: fascination is with the Yankees and George Steinbrenner and his son,
Speaker 5: read this book, The Bosses of the Bronx. Now, Mike
Speaker 5: takes us inside the fascinating and often turbulent story of
Speaker 5: the New York Yankees and the Steinberger family dynasty, from
Speaker 5: George's fiery rain and obsession with winning, to how Steinbrenner
Speaker 5: is more measured corporate leadership style in today's analytics driven era.
Speaker 5: We'll talk championships, pressure, money, ego, loyalty. We'll talk about
Speaker 5: everyone from Reggie Jackson to Juan Soto, and if you
Speaker 5: love baseball leadership, New York sports history, or family dynasties,
Speaker 5: this is going to be a great conversation. So let's
Speaker 5: meet Mike Vaccaro. Welcome to Guys Guys Radio.
Speaker 6: Thank you, Roberts. Good to be with you today.
Speaker 5: So let's start right at the beginning. I mean this
Speaker 5: is there's been a lot of books that have been
Speaker 5: written about the Steinbrenner's and George in particular and the Yankees.
Speaker 5: So what inspired you to write this one. I know
Speaker 5: everybody's familiar with Bill Madden's biography of George, but this
Speaker 5: is a little bit different.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, I didn't want to set up to
Speaker 6: write a biography, Robert, because, like you said, Mad wrote
Speaker 6: a biography. Dick Schapp years earlier, had done a very
Speaker 6: good biography of him. This isn't biography as much as
Speaker 6: the slice of New York life. I think from nineteen
Speaker 6: seventy three on, which is when Steinbinterer and his partners
Speaker 6: bought the Yankees on the way all the way to today,
Speaker 6: where how you know, oversees the old kingdom that his
Speaker 6: father created. I think part of what inspired me was to,
Speaker 6: you know, kind of give a real full accounting for
Speaker 6: a lot of people. You know, we're sixteen years past
Speaker 6: George's death now. I think a lot of people only
Speaker 6: remember him as the kindly old man who would walk
Speaker 6: in the Yankee Stadium and be drowned in cheers and
Speaker 6: guys like you and you remember that about ten years
Speaker 6: before that he would walk into the Yankee Stadium and
Speaker 6: the noise would be different, and the words would be different,
Speaker 6: the sentiment would be different. But people don't remember that,
Speaker 6: you know, either they're too young to have gone through that,
Speaker 6: or you know, some people like to use selective indisia
Speaker 6: and only choose to remember the stuff at the end.
Speaker 6: And you know, it was it was a fascinating thirty
Speaker 6: seven years that George owned the team, fascinating time in
Speaker 6: baseball in New York, in the country, specifically with the Yankees,
Speaker 6: and you know, he rescued the Yankees from near oblivion
Speaker 6: to where they're one of the top friends in the
Speaker 6: whole world, you know, baseball, sports and otherwise. And I
Speaker 6: thought it was a certainly a just story and worth
Speaker 6: preserving between the covers of a book.
Speaker 5: Well, you did an amazing job, and the attention to
Speaker 5: detail is incredible and the writing style is wonderful. So
Speaker 5: thank you for putting this together. I'm thoroughly enjoying it night.
Speaker 5: I don't always say that to my guests unless I
Speaker 5: really mean it, and this time I do, and I highly.
Speaker 6: I appreciate it. I appreciate that. Thank you.
Speaker 5: It's terrific. So let's start with Steinbredder himself. There's some
Speaker 5: owners just really transcend their sports they're involved in. Nowadays
Speaker 5: we have and you love him or you hate him,
Speaker 5: or a little bit of both. Today we've got like
Speaker 5: Jerry Jones with the Cowboys. Before that, you had George Steinbrenner.
Speaker 5: Before him, maybe in a more cartoonish way, you had
Speaker 5: Charlie Finley. What makes George Steinbrenner so special and what
Speaker 5: was the most surprising thing you found out about him
Speaker 5: when you were doing the research for this book.
Speaker 6: You know, I think what made him so special is
Speaker 6: that he really was a one of one. I mean,
Speaker 6: there wasn't a you know, yes you can you could
Speaker 6: liken a lot of owners to him. You know, I
Speaker 6: think you did. You know, you're right. Jerry Jones is
Speaker 6: obviously a high profile owner, although mostly he doesn't say
Speaker 6: silly things publicly. A couple of times a week. Charlie
Speaker 6: Finley was very close to what George became. He just
Speaker 6: never had the resources behind him, and he was doing
Speaker 6: when he was doing in Oakland, California, rather than New York,
Speaker 6: so he was a little a little more muted.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 6: I think the thing that surprised me about learning about
Speaker 6: George was just how profoundly he was responsible for making
Speaker 6: sure that the Yankees remained the New York Yankees, you know,
Speaker 6: when you know part of the reason why he was
Speaker 6: picked by CBS and his group was picked by CBS
Speaker 6: to to get the team. They didn't have the highest bid,
Speaker 6: but they were the one with the loudest voice, you know,
Speaker 6: guaranteeing the New York that the Yankees were stay in
Speaker 6: New York. They already kind of had one fit out
Speaker 6: the door, following the Giants to New Jersey, where there
Speaker 6: were other options. New Orleans was a prominent option, and
Speaker 6: you know, a lot of the groups that were bidding
Speaker 6: more money were pretty adamant that they were probably going
Speaker 6: to abandon the South Bronx. William Paley, the legendary chairman
Speaker 6: of CBS, who already knew that part of his habituator
Speaker 6: was going to read that he'd let the Yankees kind
Speaker 6: of crumble. He also didn't want to be known as
Speaker 6: the guy who let the Yankees leave New York, and
Speaker 6: that was appealing to him. And so as a result,
Speaker 6: you know, George's group got the team for eight point
Speaker 6: eight million dollars, which is a staggering number. And the
Speaker 6: more staggering number is the George himself butut of about
Speaker 6: one hundred and sixty eight thousand dollars of his own money,
Speaker 6: which is really remarkable. He consider the fact that by
Speaker 6: the time he died thirty seven years later, he was
Speaker 6: a confirmed billionaire. So it's you know, I think that's
Speaker 6: one of the things that you forget. Because George had
Speaker 6: his own alliances with New Jersey but for the most
Speaker 6: part that was all done in the interest of making
Speaker 6: sure the new Yankee Stadium would get built, which it did.
Speaker 6: He would have liked it to have been built a
Speaker 6: couple of years before that. But there was some real
Speaker 6: sentiment because the Yankees were the number two team in
Speaker 6: town and it wasn't close when he bought the team
Speaker 6: in ninety seventy three. The Mets out through the Yankees
Speaker 6: two and a half to one. Most years, they were
Speaker 6: the team in New York. And you know, George wanted
Speaker 6: to change that. George did change that, and you know,
Speaker 6: through the sheer will of his personality, they were in
Speaker 6: the World Series three years later.
Speaker 5: Now what were And he had promised that that he
Speaker 5: would give me three years and he would do that.
Speaker 5: So what are some what are the things? What are
Speaker 5: the key steps he took to transform the Yankees first
Speaker 5: of all into a championship team once again, and then
Speaker 5: to really transcend baseball and make the Yankees really a
Speaker 5: true global brand.
Speaker 6: Well, the guy who brought into the Yankees basically was
Speaker 6: Gay Paul, who was a longtime baseball man who George
Speaker 6: knew from Cleveland. George almost bought to Cleveland Indians a
Speaker 6: couple of years before that, so we got to know
Speaker 6: Gate Paul. Paul was just was a baseball life for
Speaker 6: a guy who had done every job in professional baseball,
Speaker 6: had ever actually gotten the team the team of his dreams.
Speaker 6: I mean, he had helped build the sixty one Reads,
Speaker 6: but he was gone by the time that team went
Speaker 6: to the World Series, and you know, tell you tough
Speaker 6: financial times in Cleveland kind of hampered him there. So
Speaker 6: when he was given the opportunity to find the Yankees
Speaker 6: for George, and then George reciprocated by bringing him a
Speaker 6: board as first the GM and waiting and then later
Speaker 6: the GM in full, that was really a huge moment
Speaker 6: for George. You know, you know. One of the things
Speaker 6: that George did, but he was low key not giving
Speaker 6: a lot of credit for, was he identified solid baseball people.
Speaker 6: He didn't always listen to them, and usually when the
Speaker 6: Yankees ran off the tracks, it's when he stopped listening
Speaker 6: to his baseball people and became his own baseball subcommittee.
Speaker 6: But when he listened to his own people and look
Speaker 6: at me. Helped along by the fact that George was
Speaker 6: suspended from baseball for seventy four and seventy five. So
Speaker 6: Gay Paul is basically allowed to build that team, you know,
Speaker 6: with George not hectoring him every day, and he did.
Speaker 6: You know, he was responsible for the bones of that
Speaker 6: team that wound up winning two championships later on. It
Speaker 6: was the same thing with Stick Michael. You know, Stick
Speaker 6: Michael was a great baseball man along the same profile
Speaker 6: Gate Paul, and exactly the same opportunity. George was suspended
Speaker 6: a second time for two years, and during those two years,
Speaker 6: as when is when Stick Michael was able to rebuild
Speaker 6: the team without the interference from above that he normally
Speaker 6: would have had. And you know, so you can maybe
Speaker 6: to duck points from George's tenure for not always being
Speaker 6: willing to follow a winning plan, a winning model. But
Speaker 6: you know, we would have had, you know, half the
Speaker 6: stories in the book, and probably no book at all
Speaker 6: if George wasn't the kind of guy who thought that
Speaker 6: he was the smartest guy in every room.
Speaker 5: Now, George's approach Mike is a little bit different than
Speaker 5: some of the owners take in today's sports world because
Speaker 5: he believed in star power. I mean, there's nothing knew
Speaker 5: about that nowadays it's still important, but he really was
Speaker 5: focused on star power at the expense of the minor
Speaker 5: league developing talent for a good portion at time. However,
Speaker 5: the team in around ninety six all came out of
Speaker 5: the Yankee system. How do you kind of balance that?
Speaker 6: Well, look, I mean, George was the one who to
Speaker 6: identify Reggie Jackson as the first savior of what his
Speaker 6: vision was. And while other people in his organization wanted
Speaker 6: to go with other they thought smarter signings during that
Speaker 6: first free agency class of seventy six seventy seven, George said, flatly,
Speaker 6: reggilarly put fannies in the seats. He understood the part
Speaker 6: the power of stars, and of course he was right.
Speaker 6: Reggie was a guy who mittally put fannies in the
Speaker 6: seats immediately delivered a couple of championships. But the problem is,
Speaker 6: I mean, the problem is that there were two Georgias
Speaker 6: who ran the team. The one was a smart guy
Speaker 6: like you mentioned, who was able to entrust lieutenants to
Speaker 6: help him build build a great team. Bill farmsist him.
Speaker 6: He understood that it was unsustainable to, you know, just
Speaker 6: buy the best player on the market every year. You
Speaker 6: needed a farm system that would be able to keep
Speaker 6: feeding you. And that was smart baseball decisions. He invested
Speaker 6: in infrastructure before it was fashionable. He invested in the
Speaker 6: farm system. The problem is he shared an office with
Speaker 6: the other George who was the lunatic fan, the impatient, impetuous,
Speaker 6: lunatic fan. And that was the guy who basically had
Speaker 6: the louder voice in the room. And so therefore, you know,
Speaker 6: the're older in the eighties, they would they would trade
Speaker 6: the likes of Fred McGriff and Jay Buhner and William
Speaker 6: McGee and Doug Graybeck all the interests of trying to
Speaker 6: pursue a veteran names who were probably four or five
Speaker 6: years past their prime. And as a result, the Yankees
Speaker 6: went eighteen years without winning a World Series. And it
Speaker 6: wasn't until later on when Stick was kind of the
Speaker 6: guy who put in the blueprint, We're gonna build around
Speaker 6: this core of talented players, see where it goes. And
Speaker 6: obviously it led to the most recent of all of
Speaker 6: our baseball dynasties. And I think that was when George
Speaker 6: finally realized that maybe you gotta know kind to stick
Speaker 6: to take a step back, which is why you know,
Speaker 6: Brian Casten was the last GM he ever hired, which
Speaker 6: is why Joe Torrey was hired in nineteen ninety five
Speaker 6: and lasted until two thousand and seven, because George realized
Speaker 6: even George wasn't gonna fire you if he kept winning
Speaker 6: every year.
Speaker 5: George has been very volatile obviously, with changing churning through
Speaker 5: the managers, almost like you know, tissue paper. Did this
Speaker 5: chaos work for him and did it work for the team?
Speaker 6: No, it weren't melted not. I mean, the fact of
Speaker 6: the matter is that that look at me in the
Speaker 6: the Yankees were the model organization around nineteen eighty one
Speaker 6: or so, and he was his decision not to bring
Speaker 6: Riggie Jackson back. He was his decision to after that
Speaker 6: when they stopped winning penance to start trying to think,
Speaker 6: you know, quick fix things, including firing the manager every year,
Speaker 6: firing the GM every year, firing the pitching coach, firing
Speaker 6: the pr director always, you know, making Jay Buner for
Speaker 6: Ken Phelps type deals, which drove you know, Frankestanza and
Speaker 6: every other fan crazy. And you know, and the proof
Speaker 6: is in the pudding. I mean, look, they they didn't
Speaker 6: go to the playoffs from nineteen eighty one to ninety five,
Speaker 6: They didn't win a World series between nineteen seventy eight
Speaker 6: nineteen ninety six. That's really all you need to know.
Speaker 6: And that's why it makes me laugh. Now people, you know, whatever,
Speaker 6: the Aches go on a small losing streak and my
Speaker 6: inbox get filled with the Yankee fans. You know, what
Speaker 6: would George do? What if George is still alive and
Speaker 6: they get mad at hal Steinlinner. They don't think that
Speaker 6: he is quite the urgency that his father had. And
Speaker 6: you know the fact of the matter is that the
Speaker 6: Yankees current drought, if you will want to call it
Speaker 6: a drought, is sixteen years. Can't counting. You know, George's
Speaker 6: I was eighteen. I mean that did not work. The
Speaker 6: way that Yankee fans believe that a lot of Yankee
Speaker 6: fans remember George is not the way it happened. You know,
Speaker 6: he snapped his fingers all of a sudden. If he
Speaker 6: fire somebody, he trade somebody, and boom, they would win
Speaker 6: a World series. That's not how it happened. And that's
Speaker 6: not how it would happen now. And you know, but
Speaker 6: you know what, people have their memories, and people just
Speaker 6: choose to remember George the way they remember him, and
Speaker 6: that's kind of the reason also why I thought this
Speaker 6: was a valuable book to have is to remind you
Speaker 6: that was it a lot of good when he was
Speaker 6: when he was the yanking you and a lot of good.
Speaker 6: A lot of people didn't even know about that he did,
Speaker 6: but it was very good. He did a lot of bad,
Speaker 6: and to me, that's what makes a guy fascinating enough
Speaker 6: to write about.
Speaker 5: Now, my special guest on Guys Guys Radio sports columnist
Speaker 5: New York Post editor Mike Vacarra, we're talking about the
Speaker 5: new book period is once again the Bosses of the Bronx.
Speaker 5: There was a time where George put together the winning
Speaker 5: team when he had seventy seven seventy eight. He got Reggie.
Speaker 5: That was the you know, that was really the catalyst
Speaker 5: to those years. And then he held on to some
Speaker 5: of those guys a bit Long Gossage and a few others,
Speaker 5: and they kind of the team kind of went down
Speaker 5: and he had a fascination, of course with Billy Martin,
Speaker 5: and then they had another mini resurrection when he had Winfield, Maddingly,
Speaker 5: guys like and Ricky Henderson. Why do you think that
Speaker 5: that group did not win the way the Reggie Reggie
Speaker 5: group won?
Speaker 6: Well, simple series. They didn't have enough pitching. They never
Speaker 6: had pitching to match the incredible offense they had. I
Speaker 6: mean the Yankees of those years started every game it
Speaker 6: seemed like two to nothing because you know, Ricky Henderson
Speaker 6: would lead off with a walk, and still second, you know,
Speaker 6: really Randolphould would we sacrifice and Intervold on the right
Speaker 6: side of the infield again to the third maddeningly second
Speaker 6: we had to sacrifice Flyre or drive me with a double,
Speaker 6: and then Winnifield, Winfield drive in madly with a double,
Speaker 6: and every game seems start to nothing. But they never
Speaker 6: had the pitching to back that offense up. And because
Speaker 6: of that, George got crazy with you know, not just
Speaker 6: the moves, but also becoming way too involved. I mean,
Speaker 6: the Yankees that era had a term for it. They
Speaker 6: called it being georged. You know, they'd be going along fine.
Speaker 6: They lose a couple of games, the Tigers are taken
Speaker 6: by a half game. All of a sudden, Starmaner would
Speaker 6: show up and issue was missives and they go into
Speaker 6: a tailspin. That happened year after year, and he never
Speaker 6: learned from his mistakes. The one time he had a
Speaker 6: chance to really rectify. This was after the eighty six season,
Speaker 6: eighty seven going into eighty seven, when he could have
Speaker 6: you know, he could have retained Gay bringing Willie Randolph
Speaker 6: without any penalty, could have gone after Jack Morris chose
Speaker 6: to sign any of them because he meekly went along
Speaker 6: with collusion, which is the one time, the one part
Speaker 6: of his personality I can't explain because it's completely against
Speaker 6: all of George's inner angels that he would have go
Speaker 6: along with the crowd, go along with the commissioner. But
Speaker 6: he did. And so that that also didn't help at
Speaker 6: all because they had a great chance to win that
Speaker 6: year on the next year and just they didn't have
Speaker 6: Jack Morris and the Tigers did, which is basically what
Speaker 6: the what the story was told there. So you know
Speaker 6: that's the difference. And the fact is, you know in
Speaker 6: the seventies that the Yankees were filled with teams. I'd
Speaker 6: love to go back at George. I mean, Reggie would
Speaker 6: always answer George back, you know, the manager of course,
Speaker 6: would more than anybody else. But you had third Months
Speaker 6: and Gooscalches. These guys had no problem engaging with George
Speaker 6: Greg Nettles, and you know, George liked that. You know,
Speaker 6: he didn't like the fact that he would rip Dave Winfield,
Speaker 6: and Winfield will smile and say, well, as long as
Speaker 6: the man pays me on the first and the fifteenth,
Speaker 6: all's good by me. That's not how George liked him.
Speaker 6: He got frustrated. I think that helped, you know, explain
Speaker 6: maybe why he wanted to get more involved, because he
Speaker 6: just didn't think he had the same kind of battle
Speaker 6: as they had before. I think it's a it's it's
Speaker 6: pretty simple. They just didn't have quite the pitching that
Speaker 6: that they needed in order to compete in the American
Speaker 6: League in those years.
Speaker 5: Now, why why do you think that's the case, Mike?
Speaker 5: I mean, he had brilliant baseball minds around him, and
Speaker 5: George was no dummy. He understood how the game is played.
Speaker 5: He had guys like Don Baylor and Winfield and Mattingly
Speaker 5: and Ricky, but he couldn't win. What why why not
Speaker 5: get the best pitchers?
Speaker 6: But like I said, the one time, the one shot,
Speaker 6: he had a chance to make everything right, he chose
Speaker 6: to go along with collusion, which is something I'm sure
Speaker 6: that he would tell you he read it later on.
Speaker 6: Although he never wanted to go on the record, you know, countermanding,
Speaker 6: whatever Peter Youbarov was trying to do in those years.
Speaker 6: But you know, I mean, pitching is not an easy
Speaker 6: thing to acquire. I mean later on they tried to,
Speaker 6: you know, add Greg Maddox when he was out of baseball,
Speaker 6: they finished second for him. They tried for years to
Speaker 6: build a staff and they just couldn't do it. You know,
Speaker 6: I mean, I think, I think it's easier to build
Speaker 6: a powerful offense in Yankee Stadium the way the dimensions are,
Speaker 6: but it is a pitching staff. And they just kept
Speaker 6: throwing you know, failed rotations at the wind, and they
Speaker 6: just weren't able to connect in the way that the
Speaker 6: great rotations of the seventies Catfish in Figueroa and those guys.
Speaker 6: And then later on the nineties when you had you know,
Speaker 6: Andy Pettitt and you had David Cohene, you had Roger Clemmons,
Speaker 6: and I think also later on when you were making
Speaker 6: your postseason lists of what you wanted, I think later
Speaker 6: on they realized you had to, you know, include pitchings
Speaker 6: pitchers on that list every bit as much as sluggers.
Speaker 5: What do you think was the catalyst to the resurgence
Speaker 5: of the Yankees in the nineties. They had gone through
Speaker 5: the eighties, they never won the big one with Winfield
Speaker 5: and Mattingly, and then they kind of fell off, and
Speaker 5: then they came back and they had the core four
Speaker 5: of Pasada Rivera, uh Uh, Jeter and Bernie Williams. What
Speaker 5: what happened and what laid the front groundwork for getting
Speaker 5: those players into the system and keeping them.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it's George getting kicked out of baseball frankly,
Speaker 6: I mean he was out of the way for two
Speaker 6: years when Stick Michael not only put together that team,
Speaker 6: put together an organizational philosophy where they were gonna take
Speaker 6: a lot of pitches, They're gonna have long at bats,
Speaker 6: they were gonna make it hard on other pitchers, and
Speaker 6: of course the players, the prospects they gathered, uh attended
Speaker 6: that church, so that was perfect. But also they stuck around.
Speaker 6: You know, there's no question, there's no question in the
Speaker 6: mind of my mind or anybody's mind, will watch those
Speaker 6: teams that have George with a guy making the final
Speaker 6: say decisions in those years, but at least one or
Speaker 6: two of the core four plus Bernie would have been gone,
Speaker 6: you know, and you know, maybe they still have enough
Speaker 6: to win one or two. They're not gonna win four
Speaker 6: out of five, and they're not gonna win you know,
Speaker 6: it's gonna be a whole different realm, you know. And
Speaker 6: because wasn't able to make those decisions, because Stick Michael
Speaker 6: was allowed to say this is the way it's gonna be.
Speaker 6: Those guys stuck around, they were allowed to go through
Speaker 6: growing pets and pains in the minor leagues, sometimes growing
Speaker 6: pains at the major league level. And together they they
Speaker 6: they formed the basis and the core for a remarkable team.
Speaker 6: I mean, that's you know, that's the long and the
Speaker 6: short of it. I mean, the irony for was you look,
Speaker 6: I mean, I don't want I didn't write the book
Speaker 6: to diminished George's legacy because clearly I was thirty seven
Speaker 6: years and made the Yankees prominent in the world to
Speaker 6: a degree that even the Yankees had never been before.
Speaker 6: And George gets ever bit of credit for that, He
Speaker 6: gets every bit of credit for hiring the likes of
Speaker 6: Gay Paul and Stick Michael. Back to the matter is
Speaker 6: there are two years of prosperity, almost entirely built.
Speaker 5: When he was in absentia, absolutely amazing. I guess the
Speaker 5: core fur A member I didn't mention, was Pettit, right,
Speaker 5: Andy Pettitt's the fourth.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was. I mean, you know, somebody needs him
Speaker 6: up with the Ride for five because Bernie belongs in
Speaker 6: that group along with Pettitt, Pettitt and Jeter and Posada
Speaker 6: and Mariano. I mean, that's a good four four. But
Speaker 6: Bernie was every bit the core memory of that group
Speaker 6: and also homegrown guy. And so somebody companies to come
Speaker 6: up with a with a rhyme the sources five.
Speaker 5: Now, why why do you think George didn't really get
Speaker 5: on their case? Obviously they won a lot, but he
Speaker 5: didn't seem to get in their face and tweak them
Speaker 5: the way he did with Winfield and Baylor and Reggie
Speaker 5: and even even Months and he really and Penela, he
Speaker 5: got on those guys backs a lot more than he
Speaker 5: did with the Core four plus Bernie.
Speaker 6: Yeah. And to me, I mean, I think I think
Speaker 6: people have always asked me, which, what do you think
Speaker 6: which champions did he like more? I think he personally
Speaker 6: liked the seventies team more because they they won, but
Speaker 6: they were also willing to fight. You fight with them
Speaker 6: on the back page. I mean, the back page was
Speaker 6: theater to him. It wasn't just you know, place the
Speaker 6: last complaints. I mean, that was how we kept the
Speaker 6: Yankees in the news twelve months a year. And those
Speaker 6: guys are always willing to fire back. I mean Gus
Speaker 6: gas Is once you know, called him the fat man,
Speaker 6: you know, chules him to a fight upstairs till a fatman,
Speaker 6: and you know that I'm looking for, you know, other
Speaker 6: than David Wells, there really wasn't a guy on the
Speaker 6: on the modern Yankees that had any interest in getting
Speaker 6: after the boss. I mean, and frankly, who are you
Speaker 6: going to get after? I mean, you know you're not
Speaker 6: gonna ever gonna go to a into a tabloid fight
Speaker 6: with Bernie Williams or Anti Pettitt. I mean, that's just
Speaker 6: a waste of time.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 6: You know Derek Jeter one time, you know, he talked
Speaker 6: about how he went out too much. And of course,
Speaker 6: because they're both guys who always trying to wind up
Speaker 6: making chicken salad out of the other stuff, they wanted
Speaker 6: doing a commercial together, a visa commercial, and they wanted
Speaker 6: to one running for a year and a half. And
Speaker 6: they probably both want to be dishes to their houses
Speaker 6: because of the residuals from that commercial. So but that
Speaker 6: was really the only time. And even Jeter then did so,
Speaker 6: you know he when when when when George said he'd
Speaker 6: do party too much? I mean, you know, Jeter's response was,
Speaker 6: I like to go out once in a while, but
Speaker 6: I'm not exactly Dennis Rodman, And that kind of diffused
Speaker 6: the situation. So there was never you know, any boss
Speaker 6: going after captain and then captain going after the boss.
Speaker 6: And weren't going to get that the way you did
Speaker 6: a generation earlier, when you had Thurman, Reggie and Nettles
Speaker 6: and Gossips all lining up to take swings at George
Speaker 6: and Billy ready to do it whenever, whenever they were tired.
Speaker 5: Now you had a George had an obsession with Billy Martin.
Speaker 5: It seems like he brought them back four or five times.
Speaker 5: I lost track after four and then finally Billy died
Speaker 5: on Christmas Day in a car accident. But then he
Speaker 5: hires a guy like Tory a few years later, very
Speaker 5: very different. What made the change in George? How did
Speaker 5: he see a guy like Tory who did not have
Speaker 5: a reputation that or the personality that Billy Martin had.
Speaker 5: How did he make the grade and get the job?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was definitely against character. I mean Arthur Richmond,
Speaker 6: who would work with Tory when they both worked with
Speaker 6: the Mets. And this is a baseball guy. So anybody
Speaker 6: in baseball knew Joe Torrey, knew what a gentleman he was,
Speaker 6: knew it a good baseball man mind he had, So
Speaker 6: it was heavy recommendations. That's the reason why I went
Speaker 6: with Tory. But he was definitely out of type, out
Speaker 6: of character. I mean the guy Quinn essential manager for
Speaker 6: Georg Stein Benter, but actually probably would have been Woody Hayes,
Speaker 6: But since Woody Hayes wasn't available to manage baseball teams,
Speaker 6: or Bobby Knight for that matter, you know, he went
Speaker 6: with Billy Martin, who was basically the same character of
Speaker 6: those guys, the same took the same approach. And you know,
Speaker 6: George was all fotball coach and he never was never
Speaker 6: able to be disabused with the fact that baseball is
Speaker 6: a different sport than football. Maybe you don't, you know,
Speaker 6: run your baseball team the way you would your football team.
Speaker 6: But look, I mean they both hated losing more than
Speaker 6: they loved winning, and that's the reason why they got
Speaker 6: along so well and also why they usually won. The
Speaker 6: driving each other crazy to where you know, he was
Speaker 6: hired and fired five times, and almost certainly there would
Speaker 6: have been Billy six if he hadn't passed away on
Speaker 6: Christmas Day in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 5: Okay, my special guests on Guys Guys Radio, Mike mccaro
Speaker 5: or the new book Bosses of the Bronx. I'm about
Speaker 5: three quarters of the way through the book and it
Speaker 5: is absolutely fascinating. And the change between the you know,
Speaker 5: the Billy teams and then the Tory teams is like
Speaker 5: night and day. What happened with guys like Clemmens and
Speaker 5: Andy Pettitt. They had kind of a falling out with
Speaker 5: the Yankees, and I think they went away and they
Speaker 5: came back again. Talk to us a little bit about that, Mike.
Speaker 6: Look, I mean it was a different time. I mean,
Speaker 6: the fact of the matter is George could convince guys
Speaker 6: like Kat for Shutter and Reggie Jackson to become Yankees
Speaker 6: and not and not make the highest bits for their services,
Speaker 6: much the same way they got that that that that
Speaker 6: Georgia had bought the Yankees without making the highest bid
Speaker 6: for the Yankees, he was able to sell Reggie and
Speaker 6: Catfish on being Yankees on New York City, on what
Speaker 6: that would mean to them, to their careers, to their legacies,
Speaker 6: to their Hall of Fame crudentials, and in those you know,
Speaker 6: those are two guys who are willing to buy that.
Speaker 6: They believed it. A lot of guys in those years
Speaker 6: were willing to believe that maybe, you know, there was
Speaker 6: something other than just chasing every last nickel.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 6: That's obviously changed over the years. That was probably part
Speaker 6: of the problem with Clemens, for sure. With Pettant, you know,
Speaker 6: I mean there were a couple of times been on
Speaker 6: the trading block, and you know, George was always hot
Speaker 6: and cold with him. I think that him going to
Speaker 6: the Astros for a couple of years, uh, was kind
Speaker 6: of his commentary and how displeased that and made him.
Speaker 6: But look, I mean, you know, it's also the fact
Speaker 6: that that that that you know, when when he got
Speaker 6: into the into the nineties and into into the New
Speaker 6: cent the players held almost all the cards and that
Speaker 6: wasn't you know, they hold a lot of the cards
Speaker 6: and the early dies a free agency but there was
Speaker 6: still they were still kind of figuring out how how
Speaker 6: that script would go. And so, you know, George, you know,
Speaker 6: the players were able to make more money, but they
Speaker 6: still I think, had a lot of the old social
Speaker 6: of sensibilities of baseball, which meant a lot of where
Speaker 6: am I going to play? Where can I win? And
Speaker 6: I think now it's a lot more of you know,
Speaker 6: where can I get? Where can I squeeze the last
Speaker 6: nickel in last quarter?
Speaker 5: H A Rod, what's your take? Havn't been around, and
Speaker 5: I'm sure you've talked to him many times on the
Speaker 5: whole A saga with the Yankees started out great, incredibly
Speaker 5: talented player agreed to move to third base to accommodate Jeter,
Speaker 5: and then they had a little bit of a falling
Speaker 5: out and it didn't seem like they were close over
Speaker 5: the years. Now they're working together on Fox, And of
Speaker 5: course A Rod's been dinged a few times with steroid
Speaker 5: allegations and has been withheld from the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 5: What's your take on that as a sportsn somebody very
Speaker 5: close to the situation.
Speaker 6: Well, you know, we talked earlier about the reasons why
Speaker 6: I wrote the book, and you know all the all
Speaker 6: of the revisionist history that's gone around George, and honestly,
Speaker 6: I think one of the first seeds that might have
Speaker 6: been planted was, you know, back when you know, things
Speaker 6: went south between A Rod and the Yankees and he
Speaker 6: was gonna sue the Yankees, and the Yankees were you know, publicly,
Speaker 6: you know, just basically screaming back at a Rod. I
Speaker 6: would get these interesting emails from people who said, you know,
Speaker 6: if Georgia said a lot, this wouldn't happen. Gege wouldn't
Speaker 6: treat his best player that way. And that drove me
Speaker 6: insane because because I said, you guys are clearly either
Speaker 6: six years old who just choose not to remember who
Speaker 6: how his spear was, who Dave Winfield was, and the
Speaker 6: fact that you know, not only would George have engaged it,
Speaker 6: George actually blackmailed his best player. He tried to. He
Speaker 6: tried to, he tried to get dirt on his best player.
Speaker 6: So if you want to tell me that he wouldn't
Speaker 6: engage in publicly shouting down his best player who was
Speaker 6: trying to sue him, that gut I got. I got
Speaker 6: another guess for you. So I thought that was interesting.
Speaker 6: So of course. I mean, look, I mean it's interesting
Speaker 6: how people choose to remember George and how people choose to,
Speaker 6: you know, fancifully think about how we would handle things.
Speaker 6: I think he would have handled things every bit the
Speaker 6: same way that Brian Cashman and helsteinmern Or did when
Speaker 6: it came to Alis Rodriguez toward the end, and it
Speaker 6: probably would have been even funnier, crazier, zanier, how you
Speaker 6: pick your word, because that's just how George was. And
Speaker 6: I think that, you know, I mean, I think you
Speaker 6: saw a little about how George would react to a Rod.
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, for a couple of years, Hank
Speaker 6: was kind of the spokesman for the team, his oldest son,
Speaker 6: uh and you know when when when when a Rod
Speaker 6: opted out during the World Series, Hank went bananas and
Speaker 6: that was Hank. So it was you know, it was
Speaker 6: a little muted because it wasn't quite George, but you
Speaker 6: know that that's exactly what George would have done, because
Speaker 6: they were both you know, they were both wired the
Speaker 6: same way. Which is part of the reason why I
Speaker 6: think hell was it was a lot more logical choice
Speaker 6: to George because he realized in the modern game he
Speaker 6: needed somebody a lot more like Hell than he did,
Speaker 6: like like George or like Hank.
Speaker 5: Even for that matter, when George was headed towards his
Speaker 5: kind of the miise, what was the kind of the
Speaker 5: passing of the baton? Which season was that? When did
Speaker 5: George kind of step back? And when did his sons
Speaker 5: take over?
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was around too, He was right around two
Speaker 6: thousand and six, two thousand and seven, that's when he
Speaker 6: became more of an emeritus, more of a of an advisor,
Speaker 6: although he still had a very public opinion about Joe
Speaker 6: Torre during the playoffs of two thousand and seven when
Speaker 6: the Yankee shell behind in Cleveland. But by it was
Speaker 6: by that by that time that you know, for for
Speaker 6: a while you had Hank as the spokesman and Hall
Speaker 6: is the guy behind the scenes. And later on they
Speaker 6: were forced to pick one, and how was the obvious
Speaker 6: choice so obvious that you know, there was no succession
Speaker 6: like drama to it. I mean, the other siblings all
Speaker 6: voted for Hall, and I think they're all pretty you know,
Speaker 6: Hank sadly passed away in twenty twenty, but I think
Speaker 6: they're all pleased with the h with that choice ptet
Speaker 6: because because Hall is a level headed, smart, savvy business guy,
Speaker 6: and you know it's it was also acceding to the
Speaker 6: wishes of George because I think George saw an early
Speaker 6: that Howe was probably the guy who's going to slot
Speaker 6: into that role.
Speaker 5: I want to take a half a step back, if
Speaker 5: I might, Mike I met I neglected to mention Buck Shoalter,
Speaker 5: what's your take on what was his impact on the Yankees?
Speaker 6: Well, I mean, if if if Stick Michael deserves the
Speaker 6: most credit for their renaissance and ultimately their their dynasty.
Speaker 6: Uh in the late nineties early early aughts, Uh, than
Speaker 6: a very close second to Show Walter, because you know,
Speaker 6: he was a guy that that that that that Michael
Speaker 6: fired weeks before he before he hired him because he
Speaker 6: just didn't think that he would be even a reasonable
Speaker 6: choice to Kid the interview for the job, but was
Speaker 6: told by other advisors because you really talk to this guy,
Speaker 6: see what you got to say, and hired him and
Speaker 6: was kind of surprised because you know, even the Yankees
Speaker 6: and declined is a pretty plumb job. But it was
Speaker 6: Stick who hired Buck, and Buck immediately went no nonsense immediately.
Speaker 6: You know, anybody who's been around Buck for five minutes,
Speaker 6: knows that this is the smartest, one of the smartest
Speaker 6: baseball people there is, you know, in my own career,
Speaker 6: I mean I learned more baseball walk Show Walter by
Speaker 6: just keep my mouth shut and my ears open in
Speaker 6: pre and post game press conferences than anybody else, because
Speaker 6: he's that smart. And the results were on the field
Speaker 6: pretty quickly. I mean, within two years they were winning team,
Speaker 6: within three they were knocking on the door with the
Speaker 6: Blue Jays, and by ninety four they were running away
Speaker 6: with the American Leaguees. So you know, his impact was enormous.
Speaker 8: Uh.
Speaker 6: I do wonder like there was a huge backlash when
Speaker 6: he was fired, uh, in favor of Joe Tory, But
Speaker 6: you know, of course history will tell us that maybe
Speaker 6: that was the exact moment where they needed a different
Speaker 6: voice in the room. And obviously Tory was a little
Speaker 6: less intense, a little less over the top in terms
Speaker 6: of details than Show Walter was. I was more willing
Speaker 6: to just you know, absorb the George you know onslaughts
Speaker 6: that then Buck was and it was probably maybe, as
Speaker 6: it turns out, the right choice for them for that job,
Speaker 6: you know, but it's it's uh, you know he was.
Speaker 6: He was a fundamental part of the change of culture
Speaker 6: and in that culture, the season. That culture planted by
Speaker 6: bucking By Stick in the early nineties is still really
Speaker 6: the basis of the Yankees culture right now.
Speaker 5: We talked a little bit about how son hal taking
Speaker 5: over from his dad and is more measured approach and
Speaker 5: more analytically driven, and he seems to keep the same
Speaker 5: guys for a long time. You've got Cashman for how
Speaker 5: many years now, like twenty years? And that long, I
Speaker 5: mean longer you have.
Speaker 6: You got the job in ninety eight, twenty eighty years, Yes,
Speaker 6: twenty four playoffs in twenty eight years.
Speaker 5: And then and as a Yankee fan, Aaron Boom has
Speaker 5: been the manager, I'll just say it far too long,
Speaker 5: I mean after last year. One thing I noticed about
Speaker 5: I'm a lifelong Yankee fan. I live out here in
Speaker 5: the San Diego area. I've seen the trades between the
Speaker 5: two teams. I follow the Padres because they're the only
Speaker 5: game in town, and they've got a good loyal base
Speaker 5: and they've got an interesting way of building the team.
Speaker 5: I don't agree with everything, but as I watched the Yankees,
Speaker 5: and I watched them in the World Series against the
Speaker 5: Audrey is a year a year ago. Their defense they
Speaker 5: just have never been in my opinion, since the Jeter days.
Speaker 5: Their defense is not good. And it seems like those
Speaker 5: fundamentals really come back to bite them. And I think
Speaker 5: the Dodgers knew that when they played the Yankees and
Speaker 5: they it turned out to be. The difference in the
Speaker 5: series was that one play with Garrett call.
Speaker 6: Yeah and look, I mean the uh That's the thing is,
Speaker 6: I think he understands that think that things aren't perfect.
Speaker 6: And then you know, probably if his father were still alive,
Speaker 6: we were still alive. I mean, Aaron Moon might be
Speaker 6: the manager, but he might be he might be on
Speaker 6: his third or fourth tenure the way he did it
Speaker 6: with Billy Marden. But look at mean, I think he
Speaker 6: also understands that U he looks crossed down, look at
Speaker 6: the Mets and realizes, maybe not so easy to win
Speaker 6: ninety four ninety five games every year. And look say
Speaker 6: what you little about Boone and what you will about
Speaker 6: cash Man. I mean, those guys get the Yankees and
Speaker 6: play every year. Now are the things that you talked
Speaker 6: about reasons why maybe they aren't able to be you know,
Speaker 6: the best team in the sport in October. Maybe is
Speaker 6: there anybody out there who would guarantee you that they
Speaker 6: do better than those two guys are doing. I'm not
Speaker 6: so sure there is, And I think help it's a
Speaker 6: value in that I don't think it's forever. And I
Speaker 6: think the first time that they take a real step back,
Speaker 6: first time they go eighty and eighty two, he'll probably
Speaker 6: clean house or he'll be an implying to think about
Speaker 6: it more. But look, I mean they moved off from
Speaker 6: Joe Girardi, So there is not a it's not a
Speaker 6: it's not a Supreme Court nomination for these guys. I mean,
Speaker 6: it's it's a you know, they they will be judged,
Speaker 6: they are judged. I just think that that Hal has
Speaker 6: a has a better appreciation for the for the for
Speaker 6: the regular, regular regularness of excellence as opposed to you know,
Speaker 6: taking a shot here and there and maybe you know,
Speaker 6: falling on your face with that choice, which George did plenty.
Speaker 5: Also, what's your take on the Yankees building their bullpen.
Speaker 5: They tried a lot of different closers and I don't
Speaker 5: think they've ever gotten an elite guy. I say that
Speaker 5: as a as a padre and Yankee fan because I've
Speaker 5: seen the one strength that the Padres have is they're
Speaker 5: really good at They really built an excellent bullpen, and
Speaker 5: they value that they get the lead they're usually going
Speaker 5: to in and they don't have that much else going
Speaker 5: a couple of stars they have. But the Yankees are loaded.
Speaker 5: Yet the top the end of their bullpen is uh
Speaker 5: is very chaotic.
Speaker 6: And of course a lot of Yankee fans have have
Speaker 6: met their their their memories seared by by just the
Speaker 6: the automatic nature of Marianna Rivera, right, So that's a
Speaker 6: hard standard to live up to. And and look here's
Speaker 6: the thing though, It's like, you know, Erald, this Chapman
Speaker 6: is has spent a lot of his career as a
Speaker 6: as a lockdown, guaranteed closer, including including for their for
Speaker 6: their fierce rivals of the Red Sox. I mean, he's
Speaker 6: he's one of the big reasons the Red Sox, you know,
Speaker 6: face the Yankees in the playoffs last year. Yet his
Speaker 6: years of the Yankees, Yankee fans would just hide undercovered
Speaker 6: whenever he would come into a game. They didn't trust him.
Speaker 6: I mean, I think that's part of it, is the
Speaker 6: nature of bullpen anyway, I mean, there aren't a lot
Speaker 6: of Mason Miller's. There aren't a lot of Marianna Rivera's.
Speaker 6: There aren't a lot of guys who you could just
Speaker 6: hand the ball to and say, well, this is over.
Speaker 6: It's a very volatile lot of work, you know, bullpens,
Speaker 6: bullpens as a whole, you know, go hot and cold
Speaker 6: year to year and sooner relief pitchers, and it's hard
Speaker 6: to build. Look me, in the fact of the matter
Speaker 6: is I think I think the key, especially now when
Speaker 6: we might be in the final hours of no salary
Speaker 6: cap in the sport, the best way to do it
Speaker 6: is to just you, is to just flood the zone
Speaker 6: and get as many many guys as you can to
Speaker 6: do the role and see who see and see who
Speaker 6: gets hot. You know, that's not necessarily a great way
Speaker 6: to do it if there's ever going to be a
Speaker 6: salary of control in place, as there might be after
Speaker 6: whatever whatever labor strife we're looking at next year. But
Speaker 6: for now, I think that might be the best way
Speaker 6: to do it, because look, I'm not I'll look through
Speaker 6: baseball and you know, other than one or two obvious names,
Speaker 6: I'm not sure that I see a guy that I say,
Speaker 6: you need to get this guy. This guy will solve
Speaker 6: about the ninth inning problems, and therefore you keep moving
Speaker 6: guys back so that solves the eighth inning, that solves
Speaker 6: the seventh inning. And I think that's part of the
Speaker 6: problem is identifying that guy is. And when near the Yankees,
Speaker 6: you have the added burden of knowing that number forty
Speaker 6: two is not trotting down the bull playing time.
Speaker 5: A good point.
Speaker 6: Good point, except except on Jackie Robinson day when they're all.
Speaker 5: Okay, The Mets and the Yankees still seem to have
Speaker 5: that simmering rivalry underneath, and they and the new Mets
Speaker 5: management has kind of, I don't want to say poached,
Speaker 5: but they've kind of bought a lot of Yankees when
Speaker 5: they become free agents. And obviously the big one is Soto.
Speaker 5: So if you would, Mike, give us a little bit
Speaker 5: of a background about the whole Sodo uh, you know,
Speaker 5: soap opera, and then the Mets seemed to be enamored
Speaker 5: with taking Yankee the guys who become free agents.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, look, I think that Sodo wasn't wasn't
Speaker 6: Yankee specific deal for Steve Cohen. I mean, I think,
Speaker 6: you know, he's a guy. He's the guy they both
Speaker 6: went after, and they both went after with big deals,
Speaker 6: and he was a trophy for for Steve Cohen. I
Speaker 6: think the other guys, I mean, yes, they all played
Speaker 6: for the Yankees. I mean, you've got a lot of
Speaker 6: names now, you know, you know Peterson Williams and uh
Speaker 6: and uh. You know even even Louis Everarino and Harrison
Speaker 6: Bader came to the mess after that Weaver. I think
Speaker 6: that's more coincidental than it is we're going after Yankees
Speaker 6: got I think they just, you know, they have their
Speaker 6: formulas for which players belong on their in their you know,
Speaker 6: in their logarithm of a team, and then and then
Speaker 6: those guys fell into it. I think Soda was a
Speaker 6: was an outlier when it comes to that, because I
Speaker 6: think he was a guy that that Cohen just wanted
Speaker 6: because he was a Yankee.
Speaker 5: Do you think that Sodo wanted to be a Yankee
Speaker 5: but he just went with the highest bidder or do
Speaker 5: you think, based on your experience that he never want
Speaker 5: he thought he might be number two because Judge is
Speaker 5: so popular.
Speaker 6: I don't think those things factor and I think I
Speaker 6: think one side one Soto was asposed to a baseball cyboard,
Speaker 6: as there is so the emotional things that the fans
Speaker 6: think about and that maybe other players think about, they
Speaker 6: don't really play into into him. They he wants to know,
Speaker 6: he wanted, he wants, he wanted to reach a certain
Speaker 6: number and he did. He wants a place where it
Speaker 6: will be comfortable to go to work every day, and
Speaker 6: I think he has that with the Mets. I mean,
Speaker 6: you know, a lot of the stories now want to
Speaker 6: blame uh the Alligit riff between him and Francisco and
Speaker 6: Ladore on him. But I think part of it is
Speaker 6: Lindor is a guy who's engaging and wants to get
Speaker 6: Ready's friend, and Soda just wants to go to work
Speaker 6: every day. And to him, it doesn't matter if he's
Speaker 6: doing that in Washington, San Diego with the Bronx, the
Speaker 6: Flushing or any place, as long as he's getting getting
Speaker 6: paid in the first fifteenth and he's allowed to prepare
Speaker 6: for games the way he wants to prepare for them.
Speaker 6: And I think he's just you know, he'll, he'll, he'll,
Speaker 6: he'll be a teammate and everything. But I think that
Speaker 6: things that we think should matter don't matter, and he's
Speaker 6: not the only guy like that. I think, you know,
Speaker 6: I think he can go chapter versus a lot of
Speaker 6: players in baseball who can adapt very well, you know,
Speaker 6: given if they're given everything they want. And that's I
Speaker 6: think that's which pisda is.
Speaker 5: Okay, last last question, what what do you think that?
Speaker 5: And along these same lines, Mike, what do baseball fans
Speaker 5: need to know about the game and about the business
Speaker 5: to really understand it better? Instead of looking at things
Speaker 5: like what you just described about Juan Soto. He just
Speaker 5: wants to do the job. A lot of people think, oh,
Speaker 5: maybe he's moody, he doesn't want to be number two
Speaker 5: and all all of this kind of emotional stuff. What
Speaker 5: a fans really need to know to appreciate the game
Speaker 5: even more and watch the game and more educated fashion.
Speaker 6: Yeah, look at me. I know it's more educated or
Speaker 6: if it brings you more lines of the way that
Speaker 6: things are done now. But look, I mean it's a
Speaker 6: it's a numbers driven game now, and you can we
Speaker 6: can we can break that into two to the two divisions.
Speaker 6: One the analytics, and there are a lot of fans
Speaker 6: who just hate the idea that analytics kind of rule
Speaker 6: the day now in baseball. I mean they do. There's
Speaker 6: no question about that. They're going to for the foreseeable future.
Speaker 6: And the fact is that that that that that, you know,
Speaker 6: it makes a lot of sense. They were there was
Speaker 6: a reason why, you know, the best teams in the
Speaker 6: sport now are very analytically driven. You know, it's still
Speaker 6: it's still a talent sport too, though, so you have
Speaker 6: to have the best players. But that's the other part
Speaker 6: of the numbers involved.
Speaker 7: Is that.
Speaker 6: Look, I mean, it's not just as easy now as
Speaker 6: we're going to find the best player and then give
Speaker 6: them ten years and x one hundred million dollars. I mean,
Speaker 6: people realize that the way that the way baseball baseball
Speaker 6: is we baked baseball players are. There's a certain show
Speaker 6: flight to these players, you know. I think the reason
Speaker 6: why he want Soona was able to break the bank
Speaker 6: is because he was a freeing. He's so young. You know.
Speaker 6: One of the reasons why pee Lonzo was not is
Speaker 6: because he was past thirty when he finally hits pretty agency.
Speaker 6: And I think that matters to all owners, not just
Speaker 6: the rich ones, not just the poor ones, but even
Speaker 6: the rich ones. I mean the rich Ones don't believe
Speaker 6: in being baseball we you know, welfare either And I
Speaker 6: think you know, you look back, but that the contract
Speaker 6: that that pooh Hoole signed with the Angels, and that
Speaker 6: they regretted that for many years afterwards. You know, we
Speaker 6: can go one after the other with a lot of
Speaker 6: players that were similarly aged poorly. And I think that
Speaker 6: those are the things that go into every thought that
Speaker 6: goes to building a team. And it's not just about
Speaker 6: I can get this player, this player, this player, this player.
Speaker 6: Maybe that was more the case twenty thirty forty, certainly
Speaker 6: one hundred years ago, but it's not the case now.
Speaker 6: It's more it's more numbers driven, whether it's dollars or
Speaker 6: desin the points.
Speaker 5: Amazing, Mike, this has been a terrific conversation, insightful, passionate,
Speaker 5: a real deep dive into one of the most fascinating
Speaker 5: dynasties in sports history. Once again, for Yankee fans, sports fans,
Speaker 5: leadership junkies, and anyone listed interested in power, family, legacy,
Speaker 5: and the business of this book, The Bosses of the
Speaker 5: Bronx by Mike Vaccaro is essential reading. Thank you so
Speaker 5: much for being on guys. Guys, Radio. Where can people
Speaker 5: find out more about you?
Speaker 7: Mike?
Speaker 6: Thank you, Robert. Look, I mean I'm at my commns
Speaker 6: thepost at my post dot com and you can find
Speaker 6: it on x at Mike Vack with two SE's. That's
Speaker 6: the same thing. Mike back fifty seven is my Instagram address,
Speaker 6: So that's where you can find me.
Speaker 5: Mostly amazing. Thank you so much for being on the show.
Speaker 5: I hope we can do it again.
Speaker 6: Thank you, Robin. I hope so too.
Speaker 4: It's guys Guy Radio, all right.
Speaker 5: An amazing and insightful conversation with the one and only
Speaker 5: Mike Vaccaro, sports editor and author, sportswriter and author extraordinaire.
Speaker 5: Mike really does an amazing job with this book, The
Speaker 5: Bosses of the Bronx, all about the Steinbrenners and the
Speaker 5: endless drama of the Yankees under the house at Steinbrenner.
Speaker 5: I think the keyword there is drama. It seemed like
Speaker 5: from what Mike had to say, that George Steinbrenner, who
Speaker 5: really resurrected Theankees and really made the brand transcend baseball
Speaker 5: along with the twenty seven to twenty eight World Championships,
Speaker 5: was a conflict and the drama that surrounded the team,
Speaker 5: and the fact that George thrived on it. He liked
Speaker 5: it when his players pushed back, he liked it when
Speaker 5: his managers like Billy Martin pushed back, and he seemed
Speaker 5: to have a lot of fun with that and a
Speaker 5: lot of success. The most success the Yanks had under
Speaker 5: his tutelage really was probably in the seventies because of
Speaker 5: all the personalities there and the fact that they had
Speaker 5: been out of the picture for many years in the
Speaker 5: New York Baseball and also just in Major League Baseball.
Speaker 5: They were they were not the championship team that they
Speaker 5: became again in nineteen seventy seven nineteen seventy eight, until
Speaker 5: they put together this mix of the Bronx Zoo as
Speaker 5: they called it. With you had characters like Sparky Lyle
Speaker 5: and Catfish Hunter and Thurman Munson and Greg Nettles and
Speaker 5: Ron Gidrey and Reggie Jackson it was, and Billy Martin's manager.
Speaker 5: It was just volatile mix, and they pushed back on
Speaker 5: their overbearing boss, George Steinbrenner, and you know something, it worked. Now,
Speaker 5: twenty years or so later, they came back again with
Speaker 5: a much more mellow group that was created according to
Speaker 5: Mike under the auspices of Geen Michael and company, and
Speaker 5: they put together the core four, Derek Jeter, jes Posada,
Speaker 5: Marianna Rivera, Andy Pettitt, and of course Bernie Williams the
Speaker 5: number five, the fifth Beatle, if you will, And they
Speaker 5: won championships in the late nineties, and they didn't have
Speaker 5: this conflict. However, they had George and the fire was there,
Speaker 5: and I guess he changed his style a little bit,
Speaker 5: but he seemed like he liked the battles, he liked
Speaker 5: the conflict, he liked the drama of when he had
Speaker 5: those seventies Yankees. So it's interesting where you see the
Speaker 5: teams and the brands that thrive on the drama and
Speaker 5: the conflicts and those that transcend the sport. Look at
Speaker 5: Jerry Jones now Dallas Cowboys. You love them or you
Speaker 5: hate them, but you know all about the Cowboys. They
Speaker 5: get a lot of press. If you watch any type
Speaker 5: of the ESPN sports shows, anytime anybody hunt the Cowboys burps,
Speaker 5: you know there's a story about it. And I think
Speaker 5: it's because of Jerry Jones and his confrontational, chaotic style,
Speaker 5: if you will. And what is he going to do
Speaker 5: next and his hands on approach, and George Steinberner was
Speaker 5: the same way as was Al Davis with the Raiders.
Speaker 5: So sometimes conflict works, and sometimes you take a brand
Speaker 5: and you can transcend the category of the sport you're
Speaker 5: in if you really know how to push it the
Speaker 5: right way, and apparently George Steinbrenner innately knew how to
Speaker 5: do it. Thank you for listening to Guys Guys Radio.
Speaker 5: We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.
Speaker 5: And until then, I always say, guys, guys finish.
Speaker 1: First NBC News on CACAA Lomela sponsored by Teamsters Local
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two, Protecting the Future of Working Families Teamsters
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two, dot.
Speaker 9: Org, NBC News Radio. I'm Jim Rook. President Trump says
Speaker 9: no one will control the Straight of Four Moves. During
Speaker 9: his Cabinet meeting at the White House today, he dismissed
Speaker 9: a question about reports that a proposed deal would allow
Speaker 9: Iran and Oman to control the waterway, assisting it's an
Speaker 9: international waterway, and he says he's not satisfied yet with
Speaker 9: the deal proposed by Iran. An ice detention center in
Speaker 9: New Jersey is once again the side of protests.
Speaker 10: Video shows protesters at times blocking vehicles, while ICE agents
Speaker 10: are seen pushing protesters and using pepper spray and batons
Speaker 10: on them outside Delaney Hall. New Jersey Congressman Robert Menendez
Speaker 10: Junior is accusing ICE of putting detainees in poor conditions.
Speaker 5: They have tried to shift the focus into what is
Speaker 5: happening out here because they watch the attention away from
Speaker 5: all the conditions inside.
Speaker 10: Secretary of Homeland Security Mark Wayne Mullen denies subpar conditions inside,
Speaker 10: and he calls the protest a political stunt by New
Speaker 10: Jersey sanctuary politicians in New Jersey, I'm Scott Springolm.
Speaker 9: The judge's declining jail for the teen accused of killing
Speaker 9: his stepsister of Border Caribbean carnival cruise. The federal judge
Speaker 9: in Miami ruling today the sixteen year old can continue
Speaker 9: to live with his paternal uncle as long as he
Speaker 9: has a GPS tracker. He's facing federal charges of murder
Speaker 9: and aggravated sexual abuse in the death of eighteen year
Speaker 9: old Anna Kepner. His parents have distanced themselves from him
Speaker 9: since the murder, and the eighteen year old suspect wanted
Speaker 9: for a pre prompt deadly mass shooting at Tennessee is
Speaker 9: now in custody. Dequarius Lax is accused of shooting seven
Speaker 9: people during a pre prompt picture gathering at a local
Speaker 9: park May eighth, in the city of Brownsville. A seventeen
Speaker 9: year old girl was shot to death while.
Speaker 6: Six others suffered injuries.
Speaker 9: First haunted virus, then he bowled a Now dangay fever
Speaker 9: and here in the US. The CDC says dange fever
Speaker 9: cases are skyrocketing. In America, the mosquito born illness, which
Speaker 9: was once confined to the Tropics, surged three hundred and
Speaker 9: fifty nine percent over the usual yearly average in twenty
Speaker 9: twenty four.
Speaker 2: Jim Roop NBC News Radio.
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Speaker 7: Local nineteen thirty two Training Center is designed to train
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Speaker 1: Today.
Speaker 7: That's nineteen thirty two Trainingcenter dot org.
Speaker 9: A new symbol of American pride is about to hit
Speaker 9: your pocket.
Speaker 11: The US Mint says a special quarter honoring the nation's
Speaker 11: two hundred and fiftieth birthday will enter circulation in June.
Speaker 11: It's part of the semiqu centennial celebration marking two and
Speaker 11: a half centuries of American independence. The coins can be
Speaker 11: purchased directly through the US Men's website and will start
Speaker 11: showing up in banks and cash registers nationwide next month.
Speaker 9: I'm MONAA Nelson, the civil rights leader who helped Martin
Speaker 9: Luther King Junior write his I Have a Dream speech,
Speaker 9: has died.
Speaker 12: Clarence B. Jones was one of the organizers of the
Speaker 12: nineteen sixty three March on Washington, where King delivered his
Speaker 12: famous speech. Jones was recently the subject of a documentary
Speaker 12: called The Baddest Speechwriter in the World, which was co
Speaker 12: directed by NBA star Stephen Curry. Fellow civil rights activist
Speaker 12: Al Sharpton called Jones quote a brilliant strategist, lawyer, author,
Speaker 12: and philanthropist, and said many of us owe a great
Speaker 12: debt to Clarence Jones. Jones died Friday at his home
Speaker 12: in Coopertino, California. He was ninety five years old. I'm
Speaker 12: Tammy Truillo.
Speaker 9: Two US senators are unveiling bipartisan legislation aimed at reshaping
Speaker 9: college athletics. Senators Ted Cruz and Maria Kentwell are introducing
Speaker 9: the Protect College Sports Act. It would grant the NCDs
Speaker 9: limited anti trust protection tied to transfer rules, eligibility standards,
Speaker 9: and athlete compensation caps. The bill would establish a national name,
Speaker 9: image and Likeness standard, restrict most athletes to one unrestricted transfer,
Speaker 9: and limit agent fees to five percent. Lawmakers say the
Speaker 9: measures designed to curb what they describe as improper third
Speaker 9: party nil payments while protecting Olympic and women's sports from
Speaker 9: growing financial disparities. The legislation also seeks to prevent the
Speaker 9: creation of a college sports super league, though the bill
Speaker 9: faces a lengthy and uncertain path through Congress. The New
Speaker 9: York Next are in the NBA Finals and their opponent
Speaker 9: could be the defending champs, the Oklahoma City Thunder, who
Speaker 9: are one game away from the finals. Game six of
Speaker 9: the Western Conference Finals are tomorrow night against the Spurs.
Speaker 9: Jim Roup NBC News Radio.
Speaker 13: Hi, I'm Jason Byers, Democrat running to be your next
Speaker 13: state Assembly member. As a small business owner, I like you,
Speaker 13: am dealing with this skyrocketing cost of living. That's why
Speaker 13: when I'm in se Sacremento, I will fight to lower
Speaker 13: costs and tackle the affordability crisis. As a concerned member
Speaker 13: of this community, I will always fight against the attacks
Speaker 13: coming from the Trump administration. I'm Jason Byers BYO RS,
Speaker 13: and I would be honored to earn your vote for
Speaker 13: State Assembly.
Speaker 8: Paid for by the committee to were like Jason Byers
Speaker 8: California State Assembly of the District forty seven.
Speaker 14: KCIA The Stations that leave no listener behind. Join kcaa
Speaker 14: morning for an extra hour coffee with Stephanie Miller now
Speaker 14: from six to eight in the mornings, followed by Gary
Speaker 14: Garver's Control Chaos. Then at nine it's the Asian Oprah
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Speaker 14: Worker Power Hour. Then join KCIA every day for a
Speaker 14: brand new show. From noon to three, it's a new
Speaker 14: Jeff Santo Show. Don't forget Rick Smith either. The Rick
Speaker 14: Smith Show is now at five in the afternoon weekdays,
Speaker 14: followed by Tom Hartman KCAA. We're making progress and it
Speaker 14: gets more exciting every.
Speaker 2: Day ten fifty AM. Don't forget that number. And for
Speaker 2: you young people who got here by accidentally fat fingering
Speaker 2: your FM band, select there. We're an AM radio station
Speaker 2: and AM refers to more than just the time of day.
Speaker 8: Are you tired of a government you worry about?
Speaker 6: Well?
Speaker 8: Vote for Donald Williamson for California's State Board of Equalization
Speaker 8: District one. Find out more about Donald Williamson at vote
Speaker 8: Donald Williamson dot com.
Speaker 15: With thirty five plus years experience, Williamson is a proven,
Speaker 15: dedicated public servant.
Speaker 4: Most of all, he's a tax saver.
Speaker 14: His priority is to protect seniors and retirees.
Speaker 16: As a former tax assessor of sam Bernardino County for
Speaker 16: three terms, he has a proven track record of helping
Speaker 16: people through difficult times.
Speaker 8: You'll rest easy with Donald Williamson in office. He'll protect
Speaker 8: social security, protect Medicare, protect California's homeowners, and protect mobile
Speaker 8: homeowners too.
Speaker 2: He served in the Marine Corps and he's a small
Speaker 2: business owner.
Speaker 15: Donald Williamson is used to defending people.
Speaker 2: He's a record tax saver.
Speaker 6: Elect Donald Williamson and relax.
Speaker 14: He's one of us and belongs to and personally donates
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Speaker 8: Vote Donald Williamson dot com. That's vote Donald Williamson dot
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Speaker 8: Williams and California State Border Equalization District One.
Speaker 17: Play your way at the La County Fair May seven
Speaker 17: through the thirty first in joy Life music, interactive exhibits,
Speaker 17: farm animals, carnival rights and games. Don't miss out on
Speaker 17: the food on a stick, deep fried and smothered in chocolate.
Speaker 4: The Fair is.
Speaker 17: Transforming into La County's biggest playground. There's no wrong way
Speaker 17: to play at the La County Fair. Buy your tickets
Speaker 17: online and save at Lacountyfair dot com.
Speaker 2: CASEAA Loma Linda your CNB see news station where your
Speaker 2: business comes first.
Speaker 16: How you doing this is Gary Garver. In today's society,
Speaker 16: the majority of people are not getting enough sleep.
Speaker 15: I know I'm not.
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Speaker 8: This segment sponsored by our friends at the All News.
Speaker 8: Sammy's Restaurant. Sammy's is now open in Kalamesa at Exit
Speaker 8: eighty eight off the ten Freeway, next to the Jack
Speaker 8: in the Box in the former Bob's Big Boy Restaurant.
Speaker 8: Not to name drop, but Sammy's in the former Bob's
Speaker 8: is a lot like Norms. It has an extensive menu
Speaker 8: with multiple restaurants in rialto in places like Upland and Ranchukumonga.
Speaker 8: Sammy's is a great place to dine. Their menu is
Speaker 8: very similar with their American trio of delicious steak, shrimp
Speaker 8: and chicken and an expansive menu. You won't go hungry
Speaker 8: and you won't go broke. At Sammy's you can come
Speaker 8: meet Sammy and his family. Sammy was a chief cook
Speaker 8: for Norms for years and it shows in his menu.
Speaker 8: Sammy's is a great place to meet the family, friends,
Speaker 8: or have a community meeting. You can ask about their
Speaker 8: private meeting room available for parties of fifteen or more
Speaker 8: on a first come, first serve basis. Sammy's is now
Speaker 8: open from six am to nine pm every day. At
Speaker 8: five point forty Sandal would drive off of Exit eighty
Speaker 8: eight at the ten Freeway in Kalamesa. Looked for the
Speaker 8: Big Boy statue. It's still there. We thank Sammy for
Speaker 8: returning to this station as a loyal sponsor. You can
Speaker 8: find more info about Sammy's at Sammy'scafe dot net. That's
Speaker 8: Sammy'scafe dot net. Well. You can also find discount coupons
Speaker 8: to save money. And by the way, Sammy's has free
Speaker 8: Wi Fi too. Sammy's and Kalamesa Raalto but one of
Speaker 8: their other locations are ready to serve you. Sammy's is
Speaker 8: now open in Kalamesa. There's nothing better than turning on
Speaker 8: the radio and listening to an old song, unless, of course,
Speaker 8: it's grabbing a local newspaper, a cup of coffee and
Speaker 8: thumbing through the pages of the latest news, views, opinions,
Speaker 8: and entertainment. Now that's living.
Speaker 1: Hi.
Speaker 8: I'm Mark Westwood. I'm the general manager of a few
Speaker 8: area radio stations like KQLH ninety two point five FM,
Speaker 8: NBC Radio, KCAA, KFXXAM ninety four point one FM, and
Speaker 8: a great friend and supporter of X ninety five point
Speaker 8: seven FM. It's my pleasure to welcome some new neighbors.
Speaker 6: To our area.
Speaker 8: A big welcome to Steve's trick Mine and Times Local Meatia.
Speaker 8: You know them, newspapers with a tradition of local community involvement,
Speaker 8: supporting a great quality of life, and of course delivering
Speaker 8: very important local news weekly right here in your own backyard.
Speaker 8: Familiar and reliable friends like the Beaumont and Banning Paper,
Speaker 8: The Record Gazette, the Fontana Herald, the Ukaipa Kalamson News Mirror,
Speaker 8: and the Redlands Community News Times local media putting the
Speaker 8: local in news. They serve each individual area with their
Speaker 8: own newspapers and a great brand of local news made
Speaker 8: just for your community. The newest of these papers, the
Speaker 8: Redlands Community News, is open for business and continues to
Speaker 8: deliver weekly. Check out their latest edition coming this Friday
Speaker 8: and each and every Friday Happily ever after. Find out
Speaker 8: where you can find your local news at Redlands Communitynews
Speaker 8: dot com. And congratulations to their new editor and longtime friend,
Speaker 8: Rachel Gustuson, who has been assigned as editor of both
Speaker 8: the Yukaipa News Mirror and the Redlands Community News. The
Speaker 8: Redlands Community News your local news just.
Speaker 15: The way you like it.
Speaker 18: There's never been a better time for men to be
Speaker 18: whoever they want to be. Yet it's never been less
Speaker 18: clear who men really are. Guys Guy Radio, starring author
Speaker 18: Robert Manny, is on casey AA every Wednesday at eight pm.
Speaker 18: Whether it's relationships, sex, wellness, or spirituality, join Robert as
Speaker 18: he interviews the experts about how men and women can
Speaker 18: be at their best. Guys Guy Radio, Better Men, Better worldps.
Speaker 2: Hey you yeah you do? You know where you are? Well,
Speaker 2: you've done it. Now you're listening to casey AA Loma Linda,
Speaker 2: your CNBC news station, so expect the unexpected.
Speaker 6: Alright, we're back. We used to work a power hour
Speaker 6: with Brandy Corgan on the team.
Speaker 12: Shirts Local nineteen thirty