WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>U h as I look through your village, high plunder

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<v Speaker 1>and pillage, taking all the booty for my pagan trove.

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<v Speaker 2>Ah wow, lobbers off the bloody lobbying knights, A major

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<v Speaker 2>wizard and a witch made lobbing knights, lombers off the

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<v Speaker 2>round table.

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<v Speaker 3>I was gonna sing a whole song, but I can't

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<v Speaker 3>use them. Shot up charge that work.

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<v Speaker 4>LARPing knights, lords of the round Table, LARPing knights, pagans

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<v Speaker 4>made of him metal LARPing knights, k n I g

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<v Speaker 4>t h S not n I g t h s

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<v Speaker 4>LARPing knights, Pagans of the round cha or Swords from oblivion,

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<v Speaker 4>Swords of magical powers that glow, Swords that strike your soul.

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<v Speaker 1>Alright, the song is right.

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<v Speaker 3>I do have an idea metal, You're gonna take all

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<v Speaker 3>the pages. I want to sing a song if I

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<v Speaker 3>can get it right. Man, is it still playing? I

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<v Speaker 3>can't tell anyway. Welcome LARPers of the round t p

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<v Speaker 3>bu hair metal knights, a wizard of Maige and a

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<v Speaker 3>winch mage to LARPing knights. Let's take down some paganism dot.

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<v Speaker 3>It would be really funny, but I can't figure out

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<v Speaker 3>how to listen to the song as I say, all right,

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<v Speaker 3>let me say if I can play the song at

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<v Speaker 3>the same time, but that it won't be funny because

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<v Speaker 3>I don't have them dumb wig on. Let's see, let

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<v Speaker 3>me play the metal song.

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<v Speaker 1>Alright.

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<v Speaker 3>Pause.

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<v Speaker 5>That LARPing nights.

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<v Speaker 4>Him out alone.

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<v Speaker 3>The round table LARPing nights a a wire wizard and

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<v Speaker 3>a witch Maige too. I just made up a new character,

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<v Speaker 3>a Wench made. She's a fagan medieval.

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<v Speaker 5>Thought, the witch mage who gonna steal on me?

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<v Speaker 6>Wench maides for meself. Bring it on, Christian.

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<v Speaker 7>Cook Christian cooks cowering and fear from the swords, Christian

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<v Speaker 7>cooks full of temptation, Christian.

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<v Speaker 1>Cooks, Christian feel the edge of my plead. I run

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<v Speaker 1>through your village and I pillage poor Christian cook. You

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<v Speaker 1>feel like Donald Duck as I slice through your bones.

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<v Speaker 1>I eat your flesh cannibalism on an altar of stones yaw.

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<v Speaker 3>That was a pretty good rhyme. I was some good

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<v Speaker 3>freestyle right there, Wizard, warrior and woodsmage.

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<v Speaker 1>As we pillage through your village, give me more hit points.

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<v Speaker 1>Merrow gives me hit points. Dropping reiselts fair law, dude,

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<v Speaker 1>did you ever notice a sword is an inverted cross?

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<v Speaker 1>That is so hair metal.

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<v Speaker 5>Pagan wizards and warriors gather around my staff.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh, I wanna get flagged anyway.

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<v Speaker 6>Welcome, Gay of Thrones, the Gay of Thrones, young liege,

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<v Speaker 6>then over young and learn the Pagan ways.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh anyway, welcome. No, I'm not gonna clean my countertop.

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<v Speaker 3>Clean your mouth out, you wash your mouth out. You

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<v Speaker 3>heard techno, It's not techno. It's a fart song. I

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<v Speaker 3>was gonna use it in one of the dumb videos.

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<v Speaker 3>See see damn son. We'll pack rise up all right?

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<v Speaker 3>That wig grows my nose crazy. What are we doing?

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<v Speaker 3>We're doing Aristotle. We're gonna talk about this debate as

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<v Speaker 3>we fool around. Super chats are welcome. We're gonna cover

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<v Speaker 3>Aristotle in some pretty good depth here, and the pagan

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<v Speaker 3>challenge from our opponent last night. And I'm really sorry.

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<v Speaker 2>That our.

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<v Speaker 3>Discord connection was so shitty last night. We're not ready yet.

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<v Speaker 3>We're just gonna We're gonna let people roll in because

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a little early. I know, I'm always late. Today,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a little early. Pop lock and bang it pop,

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<v Speaker 3>lock inhead bang It Pop, lock inhead Bang it pop,

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<v Speaker 3>lockinghead bang it.

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<v Speaker 1>Gother around, got around my stiff sword, young Liege, For

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<v Speaker 1>tonight we raid the Christian village in honor of four

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<v Speaker 1>time and God of all made up God's fourteen, young

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<v Speaker 1>Leege Benova, I have manly things to teach you of

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<v Speaker 1>the ancient ways.

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<v Speaker 4>Wizards and lawyers, wenches, mages and wench mates to wizards

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<v Speaker 4>and lawyers.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, I'm feeling the vibe. Now I'm getting it. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>getting rhythm. Wizards and warriors, titties and wench mages to.

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<v Speaker 1>Wizards of warriors, titties and wench mage titties and wench

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<v Speaker 1>mage titties and wench maids, wizzardsand warriors, teaching all the

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<v Speaker 1>young lieges all of the mysteries Rendova and run the mysteries.

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<v Speaker 3>Ghouls and goblins one hundred and six. Come on, now,

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<v Speaker 3>where is their buddy.

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<v Speaker 8>Let's get this, Let's get this party started, young lees. Dude,

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<v Speaker 8>that's a great rapper name.

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<v Speaker 1>Winch made.

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<v Speaker 3>All right, there we go, Wizards and knes and she yachts.

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<v Speaker 8>Don't believe in thum. Boy's got a short, but it's

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<v Speaker 8>gonna take you to school. Call me olden one Kenobi

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<v Speaker 8>the Steve Brewle of Thule, feeding all my pagans gruel

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<v Speaker 8>while all them christ cuts drew, Ain't it cool?

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<v Speaker 3>Woa tan.

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<v Speaker 9>Whoa tan? Oh damn oh damn mhm h bog Lord

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<v Speaker 9>Dave living in a cave. Charles Martel.

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<v Speaker 8>Pagan as Hell, Franco Marrabingian Heathen Core, Holy Vehemists.

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<v Speaker 3>H went rhymes with barg whoa tan damn.

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<v Speaker 10>A sigh true or peek at you a sad true

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<v Speaker 10>or a peek at you wolden damn son, wold damn son. H.

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<v Speaker 10>All right, we're almost.

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<v Speaker 3>There, got a couple more minutes before it actually starts.

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<v Speaker 3>Y'all want to hear that metal song again? Okay, everybody

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<v Speaker 3>likes this metal song.

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<v Speaker 4>Okay, h.

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<v Speaker 1>Free, ain't nothing but a hole where my demons at?

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<v Speaker 3>What my demons at?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, bend over, Christian cook, I have something to teach

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<v Speaker 1>you there, h.

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<v Speaker 3>H h.

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<v Speaker 1>Christian you taste like soy?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, all right, that's enough of that nus, all right,

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<v Speaker 3>that's just some royalty free Viking pagan medal. Hendrick's gonna

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<v Speaker 3>come after me after this. He's gonna try to kill me.

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<v Speaker 3>Gotta there's gonna be a fat law from Hendrick and

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<v Speaker 3>ah ah an army, A tribe of the whole tribe

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<v Speaker 3>is gonna come after me, come cut my head off

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<v Speaker 3>with a with an axe. Would They ain't even gonna

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<v Speaker 3>ask a question, just gonna ax my head. Let's see,

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<v Speaker 3>thank you, super chats rolling in. We're gonna get started

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<v Speaker 3>if you if you missed the first ten minutes of

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<v Speaker 3>complete nonsense. I really should have put that into more

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<v Speaker 3>of a planned musical presentation because it could have been

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<v Speaker 3>pretty funny. It's okay, all right, let's talk about last night.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really lengthy debate. It was good. I wish that

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<v Speaker 3>the sound had been.

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<v Speaker 1>Well.

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<v Speaker 3>The sound was fine. It was that the Internet was

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<v Speaker 3>glitching in and out, so we didn't really have a

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<v Speaker 3>presentation that makes a whole lot of sense. After the

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<v Speaker 3>second hour mark, after hour two is when it really

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<v Speaker 3>starts going downhill. You can kind of make out the

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<v Speaker 3>majority of the arguments. I was asking people today what

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<v Speaker 3>they thought, and they felt like it was you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I still came out on top. I don't think there's

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<v Speaker 3>any doubt about that. But whether or not you can

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<v Speaker 3>really make out the arguments I'm making because every time

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<v Speaker 3>I set a sentence the last part of the sentence

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<v Speaker 3>was cut off because Discord was acting weird. So any

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<v Speaker 3>debate that I do is posted at the website. It's

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<v Speaker 3>posted on all my social media. So if you follow

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<v Speaker 3>my website or any of the social media as you

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<v Speaker 3>will see last night's debate posted. So yes, I'll add

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<v Speaker 3>it to the description. Unless Joe the Boomer has made

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<v Speaker 3>the debate behind a paywall, I don't know if he's

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<v Speaker 3>done that or not.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>So, but because a lot of people couldn't even hear

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<v Speaker 3>the debate, it's why we're doing this. So and hopefully

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<v Speaker 3>this won't take too long because I'm not going to

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<v Speaker 3>rehash the entire thing. It was so kind of arduous

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<v Speaker 3>and a lot of circular stuff and a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>rehashing the same argument multiple times over. It was it was,

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<v Speaker 3>It was worth it, but it was very draining. So

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<v Speaker 3>if we think about the Aristotelian perspective we want, and

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<v Speaker 3>he was roughly you know, Aristotelian. Yeah, the audio on

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<v Speaker 3>Discord was pathetic, dude. I mean, from now on, we'll

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<v Speaker 3>have to do this on my channel because I'm not

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<v Speaker 3>gonna waste three hour debate with a bunch of audio nonsense,

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<v Speaker 3>and then if he wants to have it on his channel,

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<v Speaker 3>he can put it up. Yeah, I cut out every

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<v Speaker 3>five seconds after two hours, it was it was pitiful,

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<v Speaker 3>all right. So what was what we're gonna see in

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<v Speaker 3>this is the similarity between the pagan conception the Aristotelian conception.

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<v Speaker 3>And ironically, when I listened to the previous discussions that

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<v Speaker 3>Tweetefon had had on that Daily Brat, they had discussed

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<v Speaker 3>all of the similarities between Aristotle and the Tonus that

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<v Speaker 3>we're on there, And Yeah, that's kind of the thrust

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<v Speaker 3>of the argument I've been making for a long time,

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<v Speaker 3>isn't it. So what I did was I kind of

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<v Speaker 3>just listed all of these ideas, and I only got

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<v Speaker 3>to about half of them in the debate because it

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<v Speaker 3>ended up being so wordy in circular. But what we

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<v Speaker 3>want to keep in mind is there some basic principles

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<v Speaker 3>that are going to be true in most of the

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<v Speaker 3>Pagan the most of the philosophic and most of the

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<v Speaker 3>Far Eastern worldviews. Now I believe that this is still

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<v Speaker 3>true for Islam and even arguably Judaism, but we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to set aside the monotheistic views for the time being,

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<v Speaker 3>and we want to focus on again the Pagan conceptions,

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<v Speaker 3>the Platonic, Neoplatonic, Aristotilian, the Greek conceptions, and the Far

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<v Speaker 3>Eastern conceptions, because basically they're all monistic, and I think

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<v Speaker 3>when you have a system that's monistic, you're gonna be

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<v Speaker 3>in the same dilemmas. And this is why we can

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<v Speaker 3>use arguments like critiquing absolute deviind simplicity, yes, and synergy distinction.

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<v Speaker 3>Those arguments are still applicable to these other religions as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Now that's a little more abtuse, perhaps, and there are

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<v Speaker 3>simpler ways to critique those worldviews as well. Man, it's

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<v Speaker 3>goning hot up in here, dancing and playing metal and

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<v Speaker 3>both demons or something. They turn the air condition and

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<v Speaker 3>I'll be right back. And so yeah, the furry demons

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<v Speaker 3>were the furry demons that run Discord Ward messing with

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<v Speaker 3>my audio chat Alison. I got his my notes on

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<v Speaker 3>his worldview two. Okay, So basically, yeah, and this is

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<v Speaker 3>gonna be a half and half talk. Now, there is

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<v Speaker 3>an old talk that I did for subscribers, which is

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<v Speaker 3>a pretty lengthy discussion of Aristotle. We'll be touching on

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<v Speaker 3>some of that material, but the majority of this material

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<v Speaker 3>is new and it's specific to this guy in the

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<v Speaker 3>worldview that he presented because it's kind of piecemeal, very

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<v Speaker 3>similar to Boggle or Dave and his approach. And you know,

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<v Speaker 3>most of the people that are in these perspectives, that's

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<v Speaker 3>what's going on. It's a piecemeal thing that they're kind

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<v Speaker 3>of just putting together. Now, they don't see that as problematic,

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<v Speaker 3>but I think it is pretty evident that the root

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<v Speaker 3>of all this, as we'll see connected to the position

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<v Speaker 3>of monism, is that these positions end up still still relativistic.

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<v Speaker 3>That's the pattern that we tend to see in these

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<v Speaker 3>pagan guys again, over and over and over, the positions

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<v Speaker 3>become cafeteri stall subjective things that some guys just kind

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<v Speaker 3>of piecing together. And ironically, again, if we set a

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<v Speaker 3>sight of Satru and the different pagan movements, if we

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<v Speaker 3>think about other religious movements in our last century, when

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<v Speaker 3>we think about all the people, for example, that studied

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<v Speaker 3>under Crowley, what did they do, not all of them,

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<v Speaker 3>but many of them, Well, they went out and started

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<v Speaker 3>their own religion. Right, So what did Gerald Gardner do?

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<v Speaker 3>He creates Wika and he creates it as a blend

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<v Speaker 3>of Druidism and all this jibber jaba that he learned

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<v Speaker 3>from Crowley and all this kind of stuff. Other guys,

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<v Speaker 3>oh Ron Hubbard, he goes through the ranks of the

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<v Speaker 3>Crowley school, goes out starts his own cult. A lot

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<v Speaker 3>of these guys have this pattern. Now, I'm not saying

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<v Speaker 3>that all the pagan guys are the equivalent of Joe Gardner, Croleier,

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<v Speaker 3>l Roon Hubbard. I'm just making the association, the connection

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<v Speaker 3>of the fact that these are people who just kind

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<v Speaker 3>of try to piece it together. And he says, well, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a reconstructionist. In other words, I'm reconstructing what the

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<v Speaker 3>ancient rights must be. And what we tend to see

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<v Speaker 3>is that this is a fool's enterprise. I remember when

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<v Speaker 3>I was looking into Orthodoxy initially, and I was really

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<v Speaker 3>trying to grapple with all the criticisms of neoplatonism. This

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<v Speaker 3>is neoplatonism, you're neoplatonic. And what about the similarities between

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<v Speaker 3>Augustine's doctrine of the philioque and Plotinus's discussion of the

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<v Speaker 3>Diad and the triad, and how the third principle between

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<v Speaker 3>the two is love.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh.

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<v Speaker 3>And yes, Augustin absolutely got that from from Platonis. It's

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<v Speaker 3>in the Eneids. I think it's in ned five off

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<v Speaker 3>the top of my head. Now, initially this is kind

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<v Speaker 3>of applausible. You start to think, well, yeah, there's a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of similarities there, right, and it's kind of it's

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<v Speaker 3>it's beyond the zeitgeist tier of stuff, but it's it's

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<v Speaker 3>in that vein of stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>So you're a little more it's more academic than the

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<v Speaker 3>basic bitche zeitgeist crap, zeitgeist crap. And so you're wondering,

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<v Speaker 3>how do we distinguish neoplatonism from what Dionysius talks about

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<v Speaker 3>in the Divine Names? How do we distinguish neoplatonism from

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<v Speaker 3>the Trinity in the way that the Cappadocians formulate it,

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<v Speaker 3>et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh.

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<v Speaker 3>And what you eventually come to realize if you go

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<v Speaker 3>down I think hopefully the right path, the path that

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<v Speaker 3>I think is right, is that there's not really a

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<v Speaker 3>neoplatonic system. Okay, this is an assumption that's often made

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<v Speaker 3>aid on the part of scholars. But then when you

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<v Speaker 3>realize that at the end of the nineteenth century scholars

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<v Speaker 3>we're kind of arguing this Christianity's neo platonism, that they

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<v Speaker 3>don't believe that anymore. That's kind of been ditched in scholarship.

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<v Speaker 3>It's older scholarship that was trying to make that argument

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<v Speaker 3>about Christianity being neoplatonic. But you see that, for example,

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<v Speaker 3>reflected in Nietzsche's day where he says it's just another

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<v Speaker 3>version of Platonism. And certainly many of the Christians over

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<v Speaker 3>the years, especially in the West, have been absolutely platonic,

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<v Speaker 3>especially a lot of the Calvinists and the Thomas, no

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<v Speaker 3>doubt about that. But what you realize is that between

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<v Speaker 3>Iamblicus and between Platinis Neoplatonism is two completely different approaches.

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<v Speaker 3>Is it me mentally recognizing these things or is it

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<v Speaker 3>a bunch of ritual magic leading to theurgy? You see,

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<v Speaker 3>which one is the real neoplatonism and so all, And

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<v Speaker 3>it's the same thing in the rights of the constructed

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<v Speaker 3>made up religions of paganism or any other cult. It's

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<v Speaker 3>completely subjective.

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<v Speaker 1>It is not.

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<v Speaker 3>Historically authenticated, and just because something's old doesn't mean it's true,

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<v Speaker 3>even if you could reconstruct it.

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<v Speaker 1>So what.

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<v Speaker 3>Doesn't mean it's true. I mean, for example, if the

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<v Speaker 3>Rosetta Stone was the means by which hieroglyphics were deciphered,

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<v Speaker 3>then the gobbledegook of masonry and their egyptology before the

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<v Speaker 3>Rosetta Stone probably is wrong in a lot of areas,

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<v Speaker 3>don't you think? Yeah, exactly. So what you start to realize,

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<v Speaker 3>and this is what I realized, when you get to

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<v Speaker 3>a certain point in the researching, maybe like esoteric guys hermeticists,

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<v Speaker 3>and you realize, oh wait a minute, like Manley P.

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<v Speaker 3>Hall's big book, he's just doing He's just piecing together

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<v Speaker 3>things from comparative religion, and they're just looking for similarities.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm not saying you can't find similarities. But what

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<v Speaker 3>I'm saying is that a lot of these cult leaders

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<v Speaker 3>they're just making it up, dude. They're making it up

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<v Speaker 3>as they go. They're starting their own shit, right, They're

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<v Speaker 3>not really passing down mysteries. There might be some truths

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<v Speaker 3>and mysteries contained and what they're constructing, but they're not

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<v Speaker 3>the part of some lineage of the true Druidic tradition.

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<v Speaker 3>Get that out of here, bullshit, Because there's a lot

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<v Speaker 3>more about the anti world that we don't know than

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<v Speaker 3>we do know. Now, that doesn't mean that there's absolutely

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<v Speaker 3>no traditions that are passed down. I'm not saying that.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm just saying that the resurgence of paganism I don't believe.

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<v Speaker 3>And this is we're gonna see this now all over.

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<v Speaker 3>This is what all these people are gonna They're gonna

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<v Speaker 3>go into it just like sheep. They're being primed for

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<v Speaker 3>this because of the collapse of Evangelicalism, the collapse of

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<v Speaker 3>Roman Catholicism. They're all just piling into neopaganism. But let's

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<v Speaker 3>talk about whether or not logic and reason and philosophy

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<v Speaker 3>can actually coincide with paganism and all this stuff, because

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think it can. I think actually we'll find

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<v Speaker 3>that they are self refuting and inconsistent. So let's look

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<v Speaker 3>at the basic outline of what the dude last night

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<v Speaker 3>said Twitter. And I'm not intentionally trying to misrepresent him.

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<v Speaker 3>If I misstate him, I'm sure we'll have a future

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00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:50.440
<v Speaker 3>interaction he can correct me. But what I understood him

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<v Speaker 3>to be saying is that he starts with this metaphysical

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<v Speaker 3>assumption that that we It's not exactly clear where he started. Then,

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<v Speaker 3>That's why I kept pressing him on this, because he says, well,

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<v Speaker 3>we look out at the world and we see that

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<v Speaker 3>there was at one time a one. There was a hyperussia,

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<v Speaker 3>beyond being, super existence, a monad emmonism, some kind of

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<v Speaker 3>great unity, and then it split into the diad. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>this is what all the ancient Greeks taught. Basically both

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<v Speaker 3>I agree in Plato the diad then is the beginning

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<v Speaker 3>of multiplicity, and then the Dad kind of splits into

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<v Speaker 3>all of the particulars of our experience that we see

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<v Speaker 3>out there in the world, all the hylomorphic matter form

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<v Speaker 3>instantiations or particulars out there. Now, let me see if

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<v Speaker 3>he said anything else. Theology, then he says, is understanding

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<v Speaker 3>the gods and the principles behind things. There is the good,

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<v Speaker 3>and there is what ought to be. And these are

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<v Speaker 3>derived from reasoning about these principles, which he said were

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<v Speaker 3>independent but present in this world, and ultimately they derive

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<v Speaker 3>from the one in the monad world in the perfect unity.

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<v Speaker 3>But also somehow there were there are many unmoved movers.

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<v Speaker 3>So the I'm looking at my notes on his view,

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<v Speaker 3>the lesser humans have a lesser morality. I'm not sure

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<v Speaker 3>what he meant by that, but and so this is

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<v Speaker 3>what he's derived from reading seventh century BC to third

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<v Speaker 3>century BC Greek and Confucian philosophy. Okay, so it's kind

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<v Speaker 3>of a little bit of Aristotol and a little bit

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<v Speaker 3>of the far easier stuff and a little bit of Plato.

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<v Speaker 3>Because he said he believes in divine idea or ideas.

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<v Speaker 3>There's no mind for these ideas, so that doesn't even

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00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:57.759
<v Speaker 3>make any sense. But he says there's ideas that are

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<v Speaker 3>independent of material form and existence, and he says we

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<v Speaker 3>need to look to Permenides. So go back to the

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<v Speaker 3>Presocratics and the Ionians and look to Parmenides. Permendes taught

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<v Speaker 3>us that everything that is will always be. And again,

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<v Speaker 3>the logical conclusion of that is that change is illusory.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, if the here and the now is eternal

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<v Speaker 3>and it's always just going to be happening again and

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<v Speaker 3>again and again, then it doesn't it stand the reason

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<v Speaker 3>that the alterations in time and space that we experience

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<v Speaker 3>that they are illusory, because it means that every single

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<v Speaker 3>point in time is eternal. So this is really just

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<v Speaker 3>a deifying of the here and the now right. This

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<v Speaker 3>is all The monistic systems can either be dualistic and

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<v Speaker 3>nonsensical or monistic and nonsensical. They can collapse either way.

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<v Speaker 3>This is always true of any monistic system, he says.

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<v Speaker 3>He says his system is monism. It's always one. The

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<v Speaker 3>fundamental unifying aspect of all reality, the fundamental structure of

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<v Speaker 3>all reality, or the ultimate reality is just one all

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<v Speaker 3>things that are are. So he starts his system off

359
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<v Speaker 3>with this statement, everything is or isn't. Isn't doesn't make sense,

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<v Speaker 3>So therefore everything is okay, this is number one. This

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00:34:17.840 --> 00:34:21.000
<v Speaker 3>is not a coherent starting point like he thinks. He

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<v Speaker 3>thinks a starting point is theory neutral, that he can

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<v Speaker 3>just start with this reasoned out assumption of what existence

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<v Speaker 3>and being and all things are. No, you can't. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not saying you can never have a starting point. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>pointing out that that is not the neutral starting point

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<v Speaker 3>that you think it is. And so that was a

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<v Speaker 3>about forty minutes of stressing that point, and I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think that he ever grasped it, or if he did,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know. Then when we started against this discussed

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<v Speaker 3>time and change, and then when we moved into the

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<v Speaker 3>last part of the debate where my audio was cutting

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<v Speaker 3>out pretty heavy, and I was asking him how he

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<v Speaker 3>came to these conclusions and how he had episomic certainty

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<v Speaker 3>about all these claims. How did he go from these

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<v Speaker 3>general instantiations to universals, from the particular to the universal,

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<v Speaker 3>which is again a big problem in the Arisitilian system.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think we got a coherent answer. I think

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<v Speaker 3>what we got was him saying, well, I experienced it.

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<v Speaker 3>Let me just go back to my individual personal experience

381
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<v Speaker 3>and I look out and I see change. So change

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<v Speaker 3>is real, but it's not ultimate. The debate is everything

383
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<v Speaker 3>I do is on my website and my social media.

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<v Speaker 3>So it debate was last night. It'll be linked in

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<v Speaker 3>the thing. If Joe the Boomer hasn't made it, it

386
00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:48.400
<v Speaker 3>was on the Daily Prap, if Joe the Boomer hasn't

387
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<v Speaker 3>made it behind a paywall. So all right, So let's

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<v Speaker 3>start with these things that he's laid out, and let's

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<v Speaker 3>take them now again. Monastic systems. And this is why

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<v Speaker 3>I kept hammering this home and he didn't get it,

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<v Speaker 3>and he didn't answer it. Any fundamental critique from the

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<v Speaker 3>time of the Presocratics and the Ionians up through Plato,

393
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:17.800
<v Speaker 3>and it still applies to Aersol too, even though Ersol

394
00:36:17.840 --> 00:36:20.280
<v Speaker 3>tried to solve this problem in Plato, and it's applicable

395
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<v Speaker 3>to all the far Eastern monastic views. Is the fact

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<v Speaker 3>that in this realm of the ideal, in this realm

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<v Speaker 3>of the one and of the monad, if everything is

398
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<v Speaker 3>perfectly simple and unified, then it shares no similarity or

399
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:39.480
<v Speaker 3>likeness to this realm. Okay, but if we think about Plato,

400
00:36:39.559 --> 00:36:42.239
<v Speaker 3>for example, Plato wanted the world that we inhabit to

401
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.639
<v Speaker 3>be a kind of a rough phantasm mirror of that realm.

402
00:36:46.480 --> 00:36:50.159
<v Speaker 3>Right the ideas in that realm are reflected into this

403
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:53.000
<v Speaker 3>realm in pale ways. So all the chairs that you

404
00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:59.480
<v Speaker 3>see are pale lesser being and stantiations of the ultimate

405
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:01.880
<v Speaker 3>chairness that exists in the realm of the ideas. Now

406
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:04.599
<v Speaker 3>there's a problem right off from the outset. If the

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00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:09.320
<v Speaker 3>one is absolutely simple, then there aren't multiple different forms

408
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:12.760
<v Speaker 3>within it. And again this is what I critiqued intomism

409
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<v Speaker 3>to classical theists, because it's true because they adopt absolute

410
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:21.639
<v Speaker 3>demond simplicity, and they adopt the actus purest view. Now

411
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:27.719
<v Speaker 3>there can't be multiple ideas and a real distinction in

412
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:32.719
<v Speaker 3>an absolute unity of this nature of this kind. But

413
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<v Speaker 3>if you're going to say that all the things that

414
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<v Speaker 3>exist in this realm are grounded in the ideas in

415
00:37:38.920 --> 00:37:41.199
<v Speaker 3>that realm, in the monad out there, in the One,

416
00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:44.840
<v Speaker 3>in the great Unity, in the great Beyond, whatever, wherever

417
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:49.239
<v Speaker 3>you locate, it doesn't matter, then you need there to

418
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:52.760
<v Speaker 3>be multiple different things, because if there's not, then what

419
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:55.440
<v Speaker 3>you end up having to say is that, in fact,

420
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:59.519
<v Speaker 3>distinctions themselves are all also illusory. Because if there's not

421
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:02.039
<v Speaker 3>a form of a chair and a form of a

422
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:06.239
<v Speaker 3>man in the one, because that's where you've said it's located,

423
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:08.559
<v Speaker 3>that's where it's in. The ideas are in the form.

424
00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:13.159
<v Speaker 3>By the way, how do ideas subsist in an impersonal,

425
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:16.960
<v Speaker 3>abstract realm doesn't make any sense because the word idea,

426
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:20.039
<v Speaker 3>the whole conception of idea, is itself analogous to his

427
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:23.039
<v Speaker 3>mind having ideas, so it's retarded from the outset. But

428
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:27.519
<v Speaker 3>setting that aside, if there's not a separate form of man,

429
00:38:27.679 --> 00:38:29.760
<v Speaker 3>in a separate form of chair in the Great One,

430
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:33.920
<v Speaker 3>then it can't be the ground of your epistemic certitude

431
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:37.960
<v Speaker 3>in this world. This is the fundamental problem of all

432
00:38:38.079 --> 00:38:41.000
<v Speaker 3>monistic systems because they try to relate that world to

433
00:38:41.239 --> 00:38:44.760
<v Speaker 3>this world, and it doesn't work because this world is

434
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:49.119
<v Speaker 3>in perpetual flux and change and is constituted by many, many,

435
00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.119
<v Speaker 3>many different distinct things. There are many particulars everywhere in

436
00:38:52.159 --> 00:38:59.519
<v Speaker 3>this world, many many, many distinctions. And what we see

437
00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:01.000
<v Speaker 3>is that when we try to ground it in this

438
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:07.079
<v Speaker 3>abstract nonsense thing, what happens is that all again dissolves.

439
00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:13.840
<v Speaker 3>What seemed like it might be a coherent basis right, basically,

440
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:18.039
<v Speaker 3>what Plato says, in fact does not work. It completely dissolves.

441
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:22.440
<v Speaker 3>Now I'm not just making Aristotle's third man argument. That's

442
00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:25.320
<v Speaker 3>not what I'm saying. Don't misunderstand me. This is not

443
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:28.480
<v Speaker 3>basic bitch stuff. We're beyond that. What I'm saying is

444
00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:32.039
<v Speaker 3>that there's an even better critique, and ultimately it applies

445
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:35.159
<v Speaker 3>to Aristotle too, because Aristotle doesn't actually ever get from

446
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:38.920
<v Speaker 3>the particulars to the universal. It doesn't make any sense

447
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:41.840
<v Speaker 3>to say, well, there's universals, but they're just in every particular.

448
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:46.079
<v Speaker 3>And that's why later down the road, the empiricist philosophers

449
00:39:46.239 --> 00:39:51.039
<v Speaker 3>who followed that train of thought out consistently rejected universals

450
00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:54.159
<v Speaker 3>and became nominalists. They said, yeah, exactly, if we're going

451
00:39:54.199 --> 00:39:57.400
<v Speaker 3>to start with empirical sense data, guess what we don't

452
00:39:57.440 --> 00:40:01.679
<v Speaker 3>ever actually empirically sense a universe. We since this event,

453
00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:05.159
<v Speaker 3>this event, this event, this event, or this collection of matter,

454
00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:09.320
<v Speaker 3>this collection of matter, this collection of matter. That's not

455
00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:13.320
<v Speaker 3>getting you to a universal if you believe in empiricism

456
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:16.760
<v Speaker 3>and the Aristotilian system, although it is a realist system,

457
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:22.719
<v Speaker 3>it is certainly more empirical than the a priori speculative

458
00:40:22.880 --> 00:40:28.639
<v Speaker 3>platonic view. But it doesn't matter because he grounded his essences,

459
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:33.639
<v Speaker 3>his ideas, his forms, the divine idea or the ideas

460
00:40:33.679 --> 00:40:35.760
<v Speaker 3>as he called them, which have an independent existence. He

461
00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:40.519
<v Speaker 3>grounded them as I understood in relationship to the unmoved

462
00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:45.199
<v Speaker 3>movers which exist in the realm of I guess lower

463
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:48.920
<v Speaker 3>degree particularity. And he said, ahha, that's a good question.

464
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:51.400
<v Speaker 3>When I asked him, is there one unmoved mover or

465
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:54.920
<v Speaker 3>fifty five? Because Aristotol contradict himself, and he admitted, Arisotle

466
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:58.519
<v Speaker 3>contradicts and says both at one and one in metaphysics

467
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:04.039
<v Speaker 3>that there are fifty five movers, and also in the

468
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.920
<v Speaker 3>on the celestial heavens, he speaks of one unmoved mover. Well,

469
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:11.920
<v Speaker 3>this is a problem with the one in the many, okay,

470
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.039
<v Speaker 3>and you can't solve it by saying that there's a

471
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:18.400
<v Speaker 3>fifty five different unmoved movers. Oh wait, there's only one

472
00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:21.960
<v Speaker 3>unmoved mover. So he didn't really give an answer to that.

473
00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:24.840
<v Speaker 3>He kind of spoke early on in the debate about

474
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:28.039
<v Speaker 3>the different principles that are unmoved movers, and then later

475
00:41:28.360 --> 00:41:31.239
<v Speaker 3>in the when I really honed in on that, he said, oh, well, no,

476
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:35.960
<v Speaker 3>there's just one unmoved mover. So that was a pretty

477
00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:38.440
<v Speaker 3>devastating blow, I would say to his to his argument,

478
00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:42.360
<v Speaker 3>and it really illustrates the higher level critique and principle

479
00:41:42.400 --> 00:41:43.719
<v Speaker 3>that I was making about the one in the many.

480
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:45.840
<v Speaker 3>You're always gonna have a dialectic in your system between

481
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:50.840
<v Speaker 3>one and many when you start with this absolutely simple, impersonal, unknown,

482
00:41:51.880 --> 00:41:57.360
<v Speaker 3>unknowable monad and super essential oneness, right, which is, by

483
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:02.559
<v Speaker 3>the way, hyper ussia, beyond being a pyrone, beyond being

484
00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:06.320
<v Speaker 3>wholly other. If it's wholly other and wholly beyond being

485
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:10.679
<v Speaker 3>in your view, then it doesn't relate to the many particularities.

486
00:42:10.760 --> 00:42:15.760
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't act as a platonic grounding for the many, many,

487
00:42:15.840 --> 00:42:20.920
<v Speaker 3>many particularities and particulars that we experience in this world.

488
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:25.400
<v Speaker 3>And then of course I made moving beyond that, the

489
00:42:25.480 --> 00:42:28.639
<v Speaker 3>point about any of those systems, whether it's the Presocratics,

490
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:32.320
<v Speaker 3>the Ionians, whether it's Plato, or whether it's far Eastern thought,

491
00:42:33.199 --> 00:42:35.559
<v Speaker 3>is that if you follow that through, then it leads

492
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:37.920
<v Speaker 3>to the logical conclusion that in this world. And he

493
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:40.320
<v Speaker 3>even appealed to Parmenides, and I said, well, if you

494
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:44.559
<v Speaker 3>have a legitimate defense of parmenities, I'm willing to hear it.

495
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:47.559
<v Speaker 3>But he just said no, I mean, I agree with promenities,

496
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:51.199
<v Speaker 3>but you're just giving a basic bitch critique of permenities. Okay,

497
00:42:51.239 --> 00:42:55.039
<v Speaker 3>I said, so defend permenities then, because if everything that

498
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:59.000
<v Speaker 3>exists is pure permanence, truly speaking, and the world that

499
00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:02.800
<v Speaker 3>we experience is flux and change, doesn't it stand to

500
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:05.960
<v Speaker 3>reason that the world of flux and change isn't really real.

501
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:13.159
<v Speaker 3>So the far Eastern philosophies, Buddhism, hindu whatever that follow

502
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:16.840
<v Speaker 3>through with that line of reasoning and ultimately come to

503
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:19.800
<v Speaker 3>the conclusion that oh wait a minute, yes, this world

504
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:23.360
<v Speaker 3>is like a giant demiurge tricking me, and he even

505
00:43:23.400 --> 00:43:26.480
<v Speaker 3>brought that up. He even said, well, how do you

506
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:28.719
<v Speaker 3>know it's not an evil demon tricking you? Right, the

507
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Descartes critique, And I said, well, first of all, that's

508
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:37.320
<v Speaker 3>really easy to refute, because if that view is true,

509
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:42.320
<v Speaker 3>then it's completely destructive to all rationality and logic and

510
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:45.920
<v Speaker 3>argumentation period. And so therefore it's not true because it's

511
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:50.239
<v Speaker 3>so fundamentally destructive to the possibility of reasoning. What how

512
00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:52.400
<v Speaker 3>could that be? Well, let me give you an example.

513
00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:55.360
<v Speaker 3>If it is true that everything that I learn in

514
00:43:55.519 --> 00:44:03.519
<v Speaker 3>this realm, in this world is ultimately illusory, and if

515
00:44:03.559 --> 00:44:07.280
<v Speaker 3>it's true that there's no change ultimately, then I didn't

516
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:10.719
<v Speaker 3>really progress from a state of not knowing that truth

517
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:14.320
<v Speaker 3>to knowing that truth. And when I did possess from

518
00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:16.360
<v Speaker 3>a state of being of not knowing that truth to

519
00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:20.719
<v Speaker 3>then knowing this supposed great truth, then isn't that also

520
00:44:20.880 --> 00:44:24.159
<v Speaker 3>part of the great illusion? Why? Yes, it is.

521
00:44:26.960 --> 00:44:27.000
<v Speaker 1>So.

522
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:34.360
<v Speaker 3>This sillipsistic, gnostic nonsense view is immediately self destructive, just

523
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:38.880
<v Speaker 3>as self destructive and stupid as relativism. And I'm sure

524
00:44:38.920 --> 00:44:42.000
<v Speaker 3>that our friend, tweeted, fond would not be a relativist.

525
00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:51.719
<v Speaker 3>He would critique that surely. And then from there we

526
00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:58.599
<v Speaker 3>understand that guess what these pagan views, the gnostic view,

527
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:05.039
<v Speaker 3>the ancient far Eastern view, and the presocratic Platonic view,

528
00:45:05.760 --> 00:45:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Why they're all really similar, aren't they. So while all

529
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.559
<v Speaker 3>of this apologetic discussion and debate sounds really obtuse and

530
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:17.960
<v Speaker 3>it's really abstract, it's really really simple because the founding

531
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:22.039
<v Speaker 3>points where these systems try to start building are very similar,

532
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.760
<v Speaker 3>and they're almost always the same, and it always starts

533
00:45:24.800 --> 00:45:29.800
<v Speaker 3>with the individual's reasoning and rationality, constructing something that ultimately

534
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:36.559
<v Speaker 3>ends up in subjectivism or pure relativism every time, and

535
00:45:36.679 --> 00:45:39.679
<v Speaker 3>so ultimately, now it doesn't matter whether it's the atheist,

536
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:44.119
<v Speaker 3>whether it's the complete rank materialist, or whether it's the

537
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:48.599
<v Speaker 3>dude in your college class who's like man, and like,

538
00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:52.840
<v Speaker 3>what if we're in a simulation, it's the same thing

539
00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:58.199
<v Speaker 3>Plato's demiurge a gnosticism. This world is a trick. Got

540
00:45:58.280 --> 00:46:03.119
<v Speaker 3>to flee it, flee the body. Same doctrine for Eastern religions.

541
00:46:03.159 --> 00:46:07.559
<v Speaker 3>You got to like meditate yourself out of existence, destroy

542
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:11.159
<v Speaker 3>your ego man to become one with usness. Same basic argument.

543
00:46:11.480 --> 00:46:13.360
<v Speaker 3>Now he didn't say that he's like I don't believe

544
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:18.199
<v Speaker 3>this Hindu style stuff of you know, trying to destroy

545
00:46:18.199 --> 00:46:21.519
<v Speaker 3>your ego whatever. But it doesn't matter because at root

546
00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:25.360
<v Speaker 3>all these positions are monistic, and then they have the

547
00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:29.320
<v Speaker 3>problem of relating that world to this world, which becomes

548
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:33.840
<v Speaker 3>a problem of dualism. The perfect ideal world to this world,

549
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:36.440
<v Speaker 3>how does it relate? And we all know Plato's answer

550
00:46:36.519 --> 00:46:39.519
<v Speaker 3>to this question, which is retarded and laughable. Well, I guess,

551
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:44.360
<v Speaker 3>at one time in our in our pre existent eternal lives,

552
00:46:44.480 --> 00:46:49.599
<v Speaker 3>in our ur before we reincarnate stages back, we were

553
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:53.159
<v Speaker 3>in the ideal realm, and so that's how we were

554
00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:56.599
<v Speaker 3>just remembering what was in that perfect realm. That's a

555
00:46:56.760 --> 00:46:59.360
<v Speaker 3>retarded ad hoc answer, and Aerosol is correct to say, no,

556
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:03.400
<v Speaker 3>that's a retarded adholc answer. But guess what. Aristotle's smushing

557
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:07.679
<v Speaker 3>of the ideas of the forms, of the essences, of

558
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:12.039
<v Speaker 3>the of the universals into the particulars doesn't work either.

559
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:16.159
<v Speaker 3>So Aristotle's right to critique Plato and his answer is

560
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:21.320
<v Speaker 3>also retarded. So what Aristotle does? Guess what? Here's let

561
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:23.960
<v Speaker 3>me blow your mind. Remember that all the arguments about

562
00:47:24.000 --> 00:47:29.519
<v Speaker 3>absolute divine simplicity. Well, guess what hilomorphism. It just takes

563
00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:32.280
<v Speaker 3>all the problems of absolute divine simplicity that we critique

564
00:47:32.280 --> 00:47:35.360
<v Speaker 3>in the theology and it applies them to particular objects.

565
00:47:35.719 --> 00:47:42.599
<v Speaker 3>It's smushing the accidents as not really what constitutes the object.

566
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:48.559
<v Speaker 3>It's just smushing the universals into the particulars. And holomorphism

567
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:50.840
<v Speaker 3>ends up with absolute simplicity for objects.

568
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Boo. Yeah.

569
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:59.119
<v Speaker 3>And holomorphism doesn't work for the human body, obviously. It's

570
00:47:59.199 --> 00:48:03.719
<v Speaker 3>one percent contradictory to our Christology and to our anthropology. Obviously.

571
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:10.159
<v Speaker 3>Now let's get more precise about Aristotle, because he's so

572
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:12.360
<v Speaker 3>lauded and praised by all these people. And by the way,

573
00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:20.119
<v Speaker 3>the Thomas today on Twitter, and the Augustinians and the Romanchallics,

574
00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:25.840
<v Speaker 3>they just got Saint John Damascus this book that includes

575
00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:30.639
<v Speaker 3>the philosophical chapters, and they're like, haha, he talks about

576
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:34.800
<v Speaker 3>Aristotle and substance and accidents. We got Jay, we got him.

577
00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:35.559
<v Speaker 1>Bro.

578
00:48:36.159 --> 00:48:38.440
<v Speaker 3>I've been lecturing on that book for three years. Where

579
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:42.360
<v Speaker 3>you been. I knew years ago that's what's in that book.

580
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:44.800
<v Speaker 3>And the reason I did that lecture three or four

581
00:48:44.880 --> 00:48:47.719
<v Speaker 3>years ago is because he doesn't use Aristotle in the

582
00:48:47.800 --> 00:48:52.840
<v Speaker 3>same way as Thomas, because in defense of the end

583
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:55.880
<v Speaker 3>of the Orthodox Faith, he teaches the essence inergistinction from

584
00:48:55.960 --> 00:49:01.000
<v Speaker 3>books one through three, and multiple times over, Aquinas rejects

585
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:05.400
<v Speaker 3>the essence centergus thinction. This is not even in debate.

586
00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:10.800
<v Speaker 3>Catch up, dudes, it's time to catch up. Any basic

587
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:16.679
<v Speaker 3>Tomistic work will tell you that Thomas Aquinas rejects the

588
00:49:16.840 --> 00:49:28.000
<v Speaker 3>essence energy distinction. Thomas teaches Actus purists. That means there's

589
00:49:28.039 --> 00:49:34.639
<v Speaker 3>no essence energy distinction. It's not hard to figure out.

590
00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:39.599
<v Speaker 3>You can confuse yourself and get lost in all this stuff,

591
00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:43.360
<v Speaker 3>but it's not hard to figure out if Thomists and

592
00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:47.760
<v Speaker 3>Roman Catholicism accept or reject the essence entergy distinction. It's

593
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:51.039
<v Speaker 3>not hard to figure that out. And so guess what.

594
00:49:51.320 --> 00:49:51.719
<v Speaker 1>We have.

595
00:49:53.880 --> 00:49:56.480
<v Speaker 3>Plenty of uses for Aristotle. We have plenty of uses

596
00:49:56.519 --> 00:49:59.280
<v Speaker 3>for logic. Do you see me here debating all of

597
00:49:59.320 --> 00:50:03.039
<v Speaker 3>these atheists and utilizing logic. If I didn't think Aristotle

598
00:50:03.119 --> 00:50:06.480
<v Speaker 3>said true things, I wouldn't be utilizing a transcedental argument,

599
00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:11.159
<v Speaker 3>which he uses in the metaphysics. When Saint John Damascus

600
00:50:11.840 --> 00:50:16.280
<v Speaker 3>goes through the philosophical chapters and cites Aristotle, he uses

601
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:20.000
<v Speaker 3>a transcendental argument against the soface. He uses that from Aristotle.

602
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:24.599
<v Speaker 3>I've been here for years, citing Saint John Damascus's use

603
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:28.639
<v Speaker 3>of the transcendental argument from Aristotle. Bro, catch up, dude,

604
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:32.840
<v Speaker 3>that wasn't it. That's not a gotcha moment. They don't

605
00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:35.440
<v Speaker 3>understand that the gotcha moments are actually just making them

606
00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:40.440
<v Speaker 3>look goofy, because I've already covered all this for years. Anyway,

607
00:50:42.440 --> 00:50:43.920
<v Speaker 3>these are young guys. These are guys who are like

608
00:50:43.960 --> 00:50:46.760
<v Speaker 3>twenty one. They don't they don't know what they're talking about.

609
00:50:48.079 --> 00:50:52.320
<v Speaker 3>All right, So let's get into Aristotle because again, what

610
00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:54.880
<v Speaker 3>we want to stress here is that Plato and Aristotle

611
00:50:54.960 --> 00:51:00.519
<v Speaker 3>are wrong in a very fundamental way, and Plato Aristotle

612
00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:04.559
<v Speaker 3>are right in insightful ways. Does that make sense? Can

613
00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:12.639
<v Speaker 3>we grasp that? So, first of all, what we want

614
00:51:12.679 --> 00:51:15.119
<v Speaker 3>to understand when we can trast this, We're going to

615
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:17.800
<v Speaker 3>look more in depth at the Aristotilian view as an

616
00:51:17.840 --> 00:51:20.480
<v Speaker 3>example here, because again with this guy, it's a very

617
00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:23.719
<v Speaker 3>good bridge between the Tomists and the Pagans, because this

618
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:28.000
<v Speaker 3>guy was interested in Aristotle very heavily, or a good

619
00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:30.599
<v Speaker 3>bit of ariostol. He liked a lot of aerosol, and

620
00:51:31.559 --> 00:51:36.719
<v Speaker 3>Aristotle is the bridge between Hellenism and you know, tomistic

621
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:39.039
<v Speaker 3>Rome Catholicism in a big way. And I'm very aware

622
00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:43.239
<v Speaker 3>that Aquinas cites Augustine, and he cites Dionysius and the

623
00:51:43.280 --> 00:51:47.199
<v Speaker 3>divine names many many, many, many many times in Assumer.

624
00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:49.880
<v Speaker 3>In fact, I believe he cites Dionysius more than he

625
00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:53.400
<v Speaker 3>cites Ariostol. I'm aware of all that. But regardless, it

626
00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:55.000
<v Speaker 3>doesn't really matter. It's not what we're here to talk about.

627
00:51:55.039 --> 00:51:58.119
<v Speaker 3>Let's critique the Aristotilian perspective, because what we want to

628
00:51:58.119 --> 00:52:03.039
<v Speaker 3>see is that Aristotle's system fundamentally is not at all Christian.

629
00:52:03.719 --> 00:52:06.159
<v Speaker 3>And if the fact that there's similar terms, it doesn't matter.

630
00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:12.119
<v Speaker 3>If I say unmoved mover, I say, I believe that

631
00:52:12.280 --> 00:52:15.360
<v Speaker 3>the world was started by a first cause an unmoved mover,

632
00:52:15.480 --> 00:52:17.360
<v Speaker 3>And you get all excited and you start jumping around,

633
00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:19.599
<v Speaker 3>Oh bro, you believe the same thing we do. We

634
00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:22.440
<v Speaker 3>just differ on who it is. And then I say, yeah,

635
00:52:22.760 --> 00:52:29.920
<v Speaker 3>the unmoved mover was Satan. Doesn't that really illustrate the

636
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:34.559
<v Speaker 3>absurdity of just because he speaks of the unmoved mover

637
00:52:36.519 --> 00:52:39.239
<v Speaker 3>as if, as if I could, in apologetics join with

638
00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:43.239
<v Speaker 3>a Joeah's witness and join with an arian, and join

639
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:46.880
<v Speaker 3>with a scientology proponent, and join with whoever else. It

640
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:50.920
<v Speaker 3>doesn't matter Islam. Oh we're all going to argue for

641
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:53.280
<v Speaker 3>the same common God. No, we don't have the same

642
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:56.280
<v Speaker 3>common God, because we have the training God, and that's

643
00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:59.199
<v Speaker 3>the only god that's ever existed, not a generic theism

644
00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:04.880
<v Speaker 3>that all the religon Jens know about. All right. So

645
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:10.880
<v Speaker 3>position A that we want to talk about, this problematic

646
00:53:10.960 --> 00:53:16.280
<v Speaker 3>and contrasts is once again because this position that Arisola

647
00:53:16.320 --> 00:53:21.840
<v Speaker 3>would outline fundamentally can't interpret nature correctly. So one reason

648
00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:24.519
<v Speaker 3>we can't do natural theology, and why in our theology

649
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:28.559
<v Speaker 3>it's more properly called natural revelation, is because you can't

650
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:31.760
<v Speaker 3>properly interpret the external world, the natural world as it

651
00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:35.599
<v Speaker 3>is now, without the doctrine of the fall, because if

652
00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:37.639
<v Speaker 3>you do try to do that, you will come to

653
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.119
<v Speaker 3>the conclusion, you will reason to the faulty conclusion as

654
00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:47.559
<v Speaker 3>the Deists and the Enlightenment guys did that. Whoever constructed

655
00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:49.360
<v Speaker 3>this world, if I just look at at the natural world,

656
00:53:49.440 --> 00:53:52.559
<v Speaker 3>is a psychopath, because that psychopath has made death and

657
00:53:52.760 --> 00:53:58.960
<v Speaker 3>life just as important in the natural world. Yes, natural

658
00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:02.679
<v Speaker 3>theology leads to to atheism, because the God of natural

659
00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:05.960
<v Speaker 3>theology is the god of natural rights in the natural world,

660
00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:12.480
<v Speaker 3>who naturally has put death into practice to feed on life,

661
00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:16.159
<v Speaker 3>and life feeds on death. Right when a body decomposes,

662
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:23.280
<v Speaker 3>outcome the microbes and the whatever that feed on the

663
00:54:23.360 --> 00:54:27.320
<v Speaker 3>death and the decay. Now that's not the natural state

664
00:54:27.360 --> 00:54:32.480
<v Speaker 3>of things. That's not natural. It's natural in a limited sense,

665
00:54:34.840 --> 00:54:36.639
<v Speaker 3>but that's not the way God intended the world to be,

666
00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:41.320
<v Speaker 3>because this world is fallen, and the decay and death

667
00:54:41.360 --> 00:54:44.119
<v Speaker 3>and destruction that are in the world, any form of death,

668
00:54:45.159 --> 00:54:48.119
<v Speaker 3>is a result of Adam's fall. Romans eight makes us

669
00:54:48.159 --> 00:54:51.719
<v Speaker 3>abundantly clear. So again, as I did in the philosoph

670
00:54:51.719 --> 00:54:55.000
<v Speaker 3>traditional philosophy and metaphysics lectures already covered this. We covered

671
00:54:55.039 --> 00:54:57.840
<v Speaker 3>why natural theology doesn't work. They don't get it, they

672
00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:00.320
<v Speaker 3>can't grasp it. They can't understand that you can interpret

673
00:55:00.360 --> 00:55:03.239
<v Speaker 3>the natural world without the fall. But the doctrine of

674
00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:08.719
<v Speaker 3>the fall is presupposing the doctrine of creation, and the

675
00:55:08.800 --> 00:55:14.320
<v Speaker 3>doctrine of creation and the fall presupposed revelation Genesis. So

676
00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:18.400
<v Speaker 3>you can't properly interpret the external world without supernatural revelation

677
00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:22.199
<v Speaker 3>contained in Genesis and by Extension and the rest of

678
00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:26.800
<v Speaker 3>the scriptures. This is why, as Father Stanneloy says in

679
00:55:27.000 --> 00:55:29.159
<v Speaker 3>Volume one or Orthodox Dogmatics, for us, there is no

680
00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:36.159
<v Speaker 3>natural theology. There's natural revelation. So you could see why

681
00:55:36.159 --> 00:55:37.679
<v Speaker 3>Aristota looks out at the world and he says, well,

682
00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:41.880
<v Speaker 3>death is just a natural process. The Seventh Actumenical Council

683
00:55:41.960 --> 00:55:45.840
<v Speaker 3>condemns those who call death a natural process. Right, because

684
00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:50.159
<v Speaker 3>the Seventh Ecumenical Council accepts the Trollo synod decrees and

685
00:55:50.239 --> 00:55:55.800
<v Speaker 3>the Canons of Trollo accept the earlier canons that speak

686
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:59.119
<v Speaker 3>of condemning anybody who says that death is a natural

687
00:55:59.199 --> 00:56:02.039
<v Speaker 3>process and that death would have happened had not Adam sinned.

688
00:56:02.519 --> 00:56:05.199
<v Speaker 3>You have to believe. This is why theistic evolution is

689
00:56:05.239 --> 00:56:09.639
<v Speaker 3>impossible in any Christian system, Orthodoxy especially obviously that's the

690
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:12.880
<v Speaker 3>only one that's truly Christian. You can't believe in theistic

691
00:56:12.920 --> 00:56:15.880
<v Speaker 3>evolution because it denies that the canons of Trollo, which

692
00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:18.960
<v Speaker 3>are accepted at and I see it too. I've cited

693
00:56:19.000 --> 00:56:21.199
<v Speaker 3>this hundreds of times. I get tired of citing this

694
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:23.159
<v Speaker 3>and every time, and now that I do this, somebody

695
00:56:23.159 --> 00:56:25.519
<v Speaker 3>gonna say, where is that? Where is that again. I'm

696
00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:28.280
<v Speaker 3>gonna have to put it on my Twitter again. Pay attention.

697
00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:37.199
<v Speaker 3>So death is unnatural. This is fundamental to Orthodox theology.

698
00:56:37.320 --> 00:56:39.880
<v Speaker 3>That's why in the Harrowing of Hades Icon, Christ is

699
00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:42.719
<v Speaker 3>destroying death. And you say, well, is it spiritual death

700
00:56:42.840 --> 00:56:47.880
<v Speaker 3>or physical death? It's both because they're both intertwined. Because

701
00:56:47.920 --> 00:56:50.760
<v Speaker 3>man is a whole. He's a holistic being, body, soul,

702
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:55.199
<v Speaker 3>and spirit. And so when we speak of death, it's

703
00:56:55.280 --> 00:57:00.239
<v Speaker 3>the It is intermittently linked. It is linked in the

704
00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:03.199
<v Speaker 3>body and in the spirit and into all creation. That's

705
00:57:03.199 --> 00:57:06.760
<v Speaker 3>why when Adam sends as the steward and covenant head

706
00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:10.440
<v Speaker 3>of the of the cosmos of creation, when he sinned,

707
00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:14.840
<v Speaker 3>it affected the entire world, the entire universe. It introduced

708
00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:17.639
<v Speaker 3>decay and destruction into the entire universe. And that's why

709
00:57:18.119 --> 00:57:19.599
<v Speaker 3>we can't look out at the world as it is

710
00:57:19.719 --> 00:57:24.639
<v Speaker 3>now and reason back to a creator. If you listen

711
00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:26.880
<v Speaker 3>to Neildagrass Tyson, if you go listen to the talks

712
00:57:26.920 --> 00:57:29.519
<v Speaker 3>that I did on the Cornelius Hunter book about Darwin's God,

713
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:32.639
<v Speaker 3>I talk about this in depth, and I explain how

714
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:37.519
<v Speaker 3>Neildagrass Tyson is right when he says, if you think

715
00:57:37.599 --> 00:57:42.599
<v Speaker 3>that the world out there teaches you natural theology, then

716
00:57:42.880 --> 00:57:45.480
<v Speaker 3>to me, it seems like it teaches a psychopath god,

717
00:57:46.039 --> 00:57:49.760
<v Speaker 3>because the psychopath god necessitates predator and pray relations for

718
00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:53.960
<v Speaker 3>life to exist and subsisting to continue. But guess what,

719
00:57:54.840 --> 00:57:57.199
<v Speaker 3>that's not the natural state of things. We live in

720
00:57:57.239 --> 00:58:00.440
<v Speaker 3>an unnatural state of things because of the fall. So

721
00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:04.840
<v Speaker 3>nature and being natural is a very vague and loose term.

722
00:58:05.679 --> 00:58:08.639
<v Speaker 3>It's a theory laden term. It doesn't come to us

723
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:12.760
<v Speaker 3>with uninterpreted brute meaning. It's not a brute fact. We

724
00:58:12.840 --> 00:58:16.440
<v Speaker 3>don't know what nature means apart from the rest of

725
00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:22.440
<v Speaker 3>some philosophical or theological system. So this is another easy

726
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:26.440
<v Speaker 3>point to contrast Christianity from Arisitilianism or any of the paganisms,

727
00:58:26.480 --> 00:58:29.079
<v Speaker 3>is that we're the only position that teaches creation x nilo.

728
00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:31.480
<v Speaker 3>We're the only position that's going to interpret the world

729
00:58:31.519 --> 00:58:34.199
<v Speaker 3>in a certain way, ultimately the correct way, but in

730
00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:36.519
<v Speaker 3>a certain way where we see death as an enemy,

731
00:58:37.400 --> 00:58:40.119
<v Speaker 3>and where as a result, death and sin are intimate,

732
00:58:40.280 --> 00:58:48.199
<v Speaker 3>are intimately connected, and thus man's problem is moral. This

733
00:58:48.400 --> 00:58:52.159
<v Speaker 3>sets us off against all the other positions because all

734
00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:56.800
<v Speaker 3>those far eastern monistic positions they start with man's problem

735
00:58:56.880 --> 00:59:00.639
<v Speaker 3>being metaphysics. They don't start with a sin in the

736
00:59:00.719 --> 00:59:05.159
<v Speaker 3>garden that's moral that leads to metaphysical problems and ontological

737
00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:08.280
<v Speaker 3>decay in the universe. They start with a metaphysical problem

738
00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:14.480
<v Speaker 3>of the one, and somehow movements changed things and it

739
00:59:14.599 --> 00:59:18.440
<v Speaker 3>split the one, and then that diad split into a

740
00:59:18.519 --> 00:59:24.119
<v Speaker 3>triad that split into the multiplicity and infinity. Fractal nonsense, right,

741
00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:33.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying fractals aren't true, but that scheme is

742
00:59:33.920 --> 00:59:40.199
<v Speaker 3>immediately contrasted with our redemptive scheme. In our scheme, creation

743
00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:42.960
<v Speaker 3>is good. It's done x nelo out of nothing. It's

744
00:59:43.039 --> 00:59:46.480
<v Speaker 3>not a pre existent matter that God forms into something.

745
00:59:46.519 --> 00:59:50.920
<v Speaker 3>It's not co eternal with God. History thus is linear

746
00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:55.880
<v Speaker 3>beginning middle end. This, by the way, is a presubsitional

747
00:59:55.960 --> 01:00:00.440
<v Speaker 3>category for understanding all of experience beginning middle end. No

748
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:04.119
<v Speaker 3>human being experiences the world in reverse. No human being

749
01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:10.079
<v Speaker 3>experiences reality from the middle to the beginning to the end. No,

750
01:00:10.480 --> 01:00:14.119
<v Speaker 3>it's We are constituted as beings to experience everything in

751
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:16.880
<v Speaker 3>our lives beginning, middle and end. And so you could

752
01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:21.639
<v Speaker 3>argue that this means of experiencing the world itself is

753
01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:23.719
<v Speaker 3>one of the transcendental categories. In fact, I think I

754
01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:27.519
<v Speaker 3>think Kant himself even argues that that's a transcendental precondition

755
01:00:27.679 --> 01:00:32.960
<v Speaker 3>for understanding anyway. Regardless, the point being is that our

756
01:00:33.079 --> 01:00:37.599
<v Speaker 3>view of history is then linear, not cyclical. The world

757
01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:39.760
<v Speaker 3>comes to be at a specific point in time. It

758
01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:42.719
<v Speaker 3>wasn't eternal, it's not a part of God, it's not

759
01:00:42.800 --> 01:00:46.239
<v Speaker 3>an emanation. God freely created. This is why we can't

760
01:00:46.239 --> 01:00:48.760
<v Speaker 3>believe in absolute divine simplicity, because that would mean that

761
01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:52.039
<v Speaker 3>the action of creating is also co eternal with God's essence.

762
01:00:52.400 --> 01:00:54.880
<v Speaker 3>And thus creating was always eternally an action of God.

763
01:00:54.960 --> 01:00:58.559
<v Speaker 3>God eternally created, and then the creation ultimately becomes eternal.

764
01:00:58.599 --> 01:01:01.360
<v Speaker 3>It takes on one of the properties of divinity, takes

765
01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:06.039
<v Speaker 3>on an eternal, uncreated state. But creation is not uncreated.

766
01:01:06.079 --> 01:01:08.559
<v Speaker 3>That doesn't make any sense. So so creation has to

767
01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:10.920
<v Speaker 3>be freely done. This is the whole point of the

768
01:01:11.719 --> 01:01:16.239
<v Speaker 3>Fluorosky essay on Athenasius and Athanasius's arguments with the Arians.

769
01:01:17.320 --> 01:01:20.280
<v Speaker 3>You have to make a distinction between God's nature and

770
01:01:20.400 --> 01:01:24.880
<v Speaker 3>God's will and counsel, and so ultimately, Father Fluorowsky demonstrates

771
01:01:24.920 --> 01:01:27.320
<v Speaker 3>without any shadow of a doubt, the Sant athenacious against

772
01:01:27.360 --> 01:01:31.039
<v Speaker 3>the Arians, is arguing the essence s energy distinction. That's

773
01:01:31.079 --> 01:01:34.480
<v Speaker 3>the whole point. If he's not, then his whole argument

774
01:01:34.519 --> 01:01:38.199
<v Speaker 3>with the Arians falls apart. So we see a system

775
01:01:38.239 --> 01:01:42.639
<v Speaker 3>then where creation begins. It's ex nilo. It's not out

776
01:01:42.679 --> 01:01:45.719
<v Speaker 3>of God or part of God. It's from nothing. And

777
01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:47.599
<v Speaker 3>that doesn't mean that there was nothing and then God

778
01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:50.639
<v Speaker 3>and creation came into existence. No, it means that God,

779
01:01:50.800 --> 01:01:53.559
<v Speaker 3>forevery for all eternity was there, and he would have

780
01:01:53.599 --> 01:01:55.960
<v Speaker 3>been there had he not created. But when he created,

781
01:01:56.039 --> 01:02:00.280
<v Speaker 3>he created into nothing. We say, just to spec fi

782
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:04.800
<v Speaker 3>and to set off against these pagan and eternal return,

783
01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:11.840
<v Speaker 3>eternal recurrence type systems, cyclical systems. And again, cyclical history

784
01:02:12.360 --> 01:02:16.159
<v Speaker 3>relativizes history. It makes change within history meaningless. And because

785
01:02:16.360 --> 01:02:20.280
<v Speaker 3>change within and development within history is meaningless, what we

786
01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:23.039
<v Speaker 3>get is the next dialectic that I contrasted in the

787
01:02:23.079 --> 01:02:28.159
<v Speaker 3>debate is that of stasis and change. Now, this dialectic

788
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:32.039
<v Speaker 3>is interesting because it's overlooked when we critique absolute divine

789
01:02:32.039 --> 01:02:36.559
<v Speaker 3>simplicity and when we understand what Origin taught. So again

790
01:02:36.679 --> 01:02:39.280
<v Speaker 3>we go back to Genesis. What Origin is teaching a

791
01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:42.840
<v Speaker 3>similar doctrine to Plato and the Platonists a pagan gnostic doctrine.

792
01:02:43.239 --> 01:02:46.440
<v Speaker 3>He doesn't believe in creation. The Confession of Saint Sophronius

793
01:02:46.440 --> 01:02:49.920
<v Speaker 3>accepted that the Sixth Council extensively condemns Origin for his

794
01:02:50.039 --> 01:02:54.400
<v Speaker 3>rejection of Eden and the doctrine creation, and he allegorizes it,

795
01:02:54.599 --> 01:02:56.920
<v Speaker 3>just like all the Darwinists and the theistic evolutions do.

796
01:02:57.000 --> 01:03:00.280
<v Speaker 3>They allegorize Genesis. They allegorized Eden. They said wasn't real,

797
01:03:01.239 --> 01:03:03.679
<v Speaker 3>it was just some mythical, allegorical thing. Well, you're condemned

798
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:06.320
<v Speaker 3>by the Six Council for saying what Origin says, because

799
01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:09.960
<v Speaker 3>actually the Six Council is very explicit in the Confession

800
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:13.119
<v Speaker 3>of Saint Sophronius about the errors of origin. It's not

801
01:03:13.320 --> 01:03:17.039
<v Speaker 3>a general condemnation of origins of Pocketstasus, It's a very

802
01:03:17.119 --> 01:03:22.440
<v Speaker 3>specific condemnation of origins doctrine of allegorization of Genesis and Eden.

803
01:03:24.360 --> 01:03:26.199
<v Speaker 3>That's a heavy pill for a lot of these normy

804
01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:30.480
<v Speaker 3>docs to swallow, and they won't swallow it. They will

805
01:03:30.679 --> 01:03:35.400
<v Speaker 3>choose anything but what Genesis says. Any give me anything

806
01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:38.559
<v Speaker 3>but what scripture actually says anything about that? What did

807
01:03:38.639 --> 01:03:41.760
<v Speaker 3>we see here? The pride of man, the pride of

808
01:03:41.840 --> 01:03:44.760
<v Speaker 3>man of just not submitting to the scriptures. Whether it's

809
01:03:44.840 --> 01:03:48.039
<v Speaker 3>the Pagans or whether it's the normy docs, all of them.

810
01:03:48.599 --> 01:03:52.920
<v Speaker 3>It's just human pride and autonomy and not wanting to

811
01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:56.079
<v Speaker 3>submit to what scripture says and what all the church

812
01:03:56.159 --> 01:04:01.599
<v Speaker 3>fathers taught. And you say, well, yeah, but I found

813
01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:03.599
<v Speaker 3>a church father who didn't believe. And it doesn't matter

814
01:04:03.679 --> 01:04:06.239
<v Speaker 3>because by the Sex Council it's already settled. You can't

815
01:04:06.280 --> 01:04:09.639
<v Speaker 3>pick out one church father who got something wrong and

816
01:04:09.760 --> 01:04:11.519
<v Speaker 3>say well, I don't have to accept that, because right

817
01:04:11.719 --> 01:04:13.960
<v Speaker 3>now you can't do that, and everybody knows you can't

818
01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:15.880
<v Speaker 3>do that. If you could do that, the whole system

819
01:04:15.880 --> 01:04:18.000
<v Speaker 3>would be chaos, nonsense, it would all collapse, It wouldn't

820
01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:21.679
<v Speaker 3>make any sense. Everybody could just it would be like Protestants,

821
01:04:21.719 --> 01:04:23.400
<v Speaker 3>like everybody could just pick out which saint that they

822
01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:30.039
<v Speaker 3>want to fallow. So nature can't be interpreted without understanding

823
01:04:30.320 --> 01:04:32.719
<v Speaker 3>the doction of creation in the fall. And since we

824
01:04:32.840 --> 01:04:35.679
<v Speaker 3>see change in nature, we have a problem of relating

825
01:04:35.760 --> 01:04:42.599
<v Speaker 3>this unchanging, eternal, timeless, a temporal realm of impersonal whatever essence,

826
01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:47.239
<v Speaker 3>to this realm of change and flux. So this is

827
01:04:47.320 --> 01:04:51.119
<v Speaker 3>a dialectic between being and becoming, and the Church Fathers

828
01:04:51.199 --> 01:04:54.320
<v Speaker 3>encounter and debate the dialectic between being and becoming, and

829
01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:58.519
<v Speaker 3>it's specifically encountered in the encounter with Origin. And this

830
01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:02.440
<v Speaker 3>actually it's Saint max when he corrects Origin. It's Saint

831
01:05:02.519 --> 01:05:05.639
<v Speaker 3>Maximus that fixes a lot of this, because this originistic

832
01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:08.719
<v Speaker 3>error kept floating around and it kept popping back up.

833
01:05:09.679 --> 01:05:12.159
<v Speaker 3>And if you read Saint Maximus, he's very explicit about

834
01:05:12.239 --> 01:05:14.400
<v Speaker 3>how to correct and condemn this. And what he says

835
01:05:14.559 --> 01:05:17.280
<v Speaker 3>is that in actually Saint Gregor a Nissa had already

836
01:05:17.320 --> 01:05:21.079
<v Speaker 3>done some some groundbreaking work in this arena, and he

837
01:05:21.119 --> 01:05:23.760
<v Speaker 3>points out that the problem with man and man's fall

838
01:05:24.000 --> 01:05:28.440
<v Speaker 3>wasn't being in a perfect state of unity and willing

839
01:05:29.079 --> 01:05:31.599
<v Speaker 3>in some way to look to some other created good

840
01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:34.920
<v Speaker 3>or some other thing to turn its gaze, its perfect

841
01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:38.159
<v Speaker 3>intellectual gaze away from the One. Okay, And in the

842
01:05:38.320 --> 01:05:42.119
<v Speaker 3>in the originistic scheme, the pre eternal, pre existent souls

843
01:05:43.079 --> 01:05:46.960
<v Speaker 3>fell because they wield something other than the One and

844
01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:50.440
<v Speaker 3>the good, and so then they fell into being in

845
01:05:50.559 --> 01:05:53.760
<v Speaker 3>a created state, and they fell into bodies. This is

846
01:05:53.840 --> 01:06:00.199
<v Speaker 3>totally heretical, totally gnostic, totally platonic garbage, garbage nonsense, anybody

847
01:06:00.280 --> 01:06:04.920
<v Speaker 3>trying to resurrect Origin is either a fool or demonic,

848
01:06:05.519 --> 01:06:07.760
<v Speaker 3>all right, so you can't there's no you can't import

849
01:06:07.840 --> 01:06:12.280
<v Speaker 3>any of this into orthox Christianity. It's nonsense when you

850
01:06:12.360 --> 01:06:16.639
<v Speaker 3>really understand the Origin is scheme. So the fall then

851
01:06:17.159 --> 01:06:20.320
<v Speaker 3>for Origin is that. And then what happens in redemption

852
01:06:20.639 --> 01:06:23.360
<v Speaker 3>is that the mind, the intellect you know, makes its

853
01:06:23.440 --> 01:06:26.639
<v Speaker 3>way back through the created images, is very platonic to

854
01:06:26.880 --> 01:06:29.360
<v Speaker 3>the one, right, and then when you get back to

855
01:06:29.440 --> 01:06:33.760
<v Speaker 3>the one, Origin says, if we have free will, it

856
01:06:33.840 --> 01:06:38.119
<v Speaker 3>stands to reason that you can always choose between good

857
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:40.679
<v Speaker 3>and evil. So as a dialectical definition of free will

858
01:06:41.079 --> 01:06:45.000
<v Speaker 3>meaning either the choice between good or evil, and since

859
01:06:45.039 --> 01:06:47.800
<v Speaker 3>everybody believes that you do retain free will in the afterlife,

860
01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:50.400
<v Speaker 3>you could see Origin's reasoning process here. He says, well,

861
01:06:51.079 --> 01:06:54.480
<v Speaker 3>then in the in the afterlife, if you have free will,

862
01:06:54.519 --> 01:06:56.199
<v Speaker 3>then you have to be able to will something other

863
01:06:56.239 --> 01:06:59.880
<v Speaker 3>than the super supreme essence the monat And if you

864
01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:02.679
<v Speaker 3>can will something other than the super supreme essence monad

865
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:05.679
<v Speaker 3>in the afterlife, in the next life in eternity, then

866
01:07:05.719 --> 01:07:09.639
<v Speaker 3>you can fall again. So he has a weird mix

867
01:07:09.719 --> 01:07:13.400
<v Speaker 3>of absolute divide simplicity, but also stressing free will. But again,

868
01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:15.599
<v Speaker 3>if you understand that, then you understand that it's actually

869
01:07:15.599 --> 01:07:19.079
<v Speaker 3>the Roman Catholics and the Tomus that are inconsistent because

870
01:07:19.599 --> 01:07:22.199
<v Speaker 3>in the Beatific Vision doctrine they want to say that

871
01:07:22.880 --> 01:07:25.880
<v Speaker 3>the will is forever focused on the essence of God

872
01:07:26.000 --> 01:07:27.679
<v Speaker 3>and seeing all things in the essence of God. But

873
01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:30.960
<v Speaker 3>the essence of God is one. It's absolutely simple, and

874
01:07:31.039 --> 01:07:33.320
<v Speaker 3>there aren't really many things in it, so there aren't

875
01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:36.559
<v Speaker 3>really different things to will. And every church father agrees

876
01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:39.920
<v Speaker 3>that free will involves an actual choice. So if there's

877
01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:42.000
<v Speaker 3>only one thing in the afterlife and there's not a

878
01:07:42.079 --> 01:07:45.000
<v Speaker 3>real distinction between things, because you're all, everything is being

879
01:07:45.079 --> 01:07:47.599
<v Speaker 3>seen and known through the essence of God, which is

880
01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:54.159
<v Speaker 3>total blasphemy. You guys, are blasphemous, then again we're at

881
01:07:54.199 --> 01:07:56.639
<v Speaker 3>the problem of absolute divine simplicity, where there's not real

882
01:07:56.719 --> 01:07:59.519
<v Speaker 3>distinctions in the one. And I brought this point up

883
01:07:59.519 --> 01:08:02.480
<v Speaker 3>to Classist and I brought it up in the first

884
01:08:02.519 --> 01:08:04.880
<v Speaker 3>time being on the Daily brap to the Thomas, and

885
01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:07.519
<v Speaker 3>I tried to stress this point because this is why

886
01:08:07.719 --> 01:08:13.400
<v Speaker 3>the Atific Vision doctrine is just platonism. Now in our view,

887
01:08:13.480 --> 01:08:18.159
<v Speaker 3>Saint Maximus has a great chapter in the If you

888
01:08:18.199 --> 01:08:22.039
<v Speaker 3>read the Selected Writings version of Saint Maximus, there's a

889
01:08:22.199 --> 01:08:25.199
<v Speaker 3>chapter where he talks about seeing God in the afterlife.

890
01:08:25.880 --> 01:08:29.520
<v Speaker 3>There's also a one of the theological orations of Gregory Nazianzus,

891
01:08:29.560 --> 01:08:32.119
<v Speaker 3>he talks about seeing God. So we have a problem

892
01:08:32.159 --> 01:08:34.279
<v Speaker 3>of seeing God because, as you know, we say that

893
01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:36.439
<v Speaker 3>we already see God in this life and then it

894
01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:40.319
<v Speaker 3>becomes the fullness of that in the afterlife. But what

895
01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:42.760
<v Speaker 3>these fathers are very clear about is that we're not

896
01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:46.000
<v Speaker 3>seeing the essence of God. The seeing of God is

897
01:08:46.039 --> 01:08:49.760
<v Speaker 3>seeing directly the energies of God. So there you go.

898
01:08:50.279 --> 01:08:56.960
<v Speaker 3>That's the solution. Also the forms of things, if you

899
01:08:57.000 --> 01:08:58.880
<v Speaker 3>want to call him that, the essences of the universals,

900
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:02.880
<v Speaker 3>if you read ambiguous set of Saint Maximus, they're uncreated energies.

901
01:09:03.760 --> 01:09:05.800
<v Speaker 3>They're not the essence of God. This is where we

902
01:09:05.880 --> 01:09:09.119
<v Speaker 3>differ from the Roman Catholics. They're not exemplars in the

903
01:09:09.239 --> 01:09:09.760
<v Speaker 3>essence of God.

904
01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:11.319
<v Speaker 1>All right.

905
01:09:11.920 --> 01:09:13.960
<v Speaker 3>So, as we're moving through the Pagan system's come back

906
01:09:14.000 --> 01:09:17.560
<v Speaker 3>to this. The dialectic between stasis and change, between being

907
01:09:17.640 --> 01:09:21.960
<v Speaker 3>and becoming is present in all the systems, just like

908
01:09:22.039 --> 01:09:24.439
<v Speaker 3>the dialectic of the one and the many. Just like

909
01:09:24.520 --> 01:09:27.680
<v Speaker 3>the dialectic of monism and dualism, there's also a dialectic

910
01:09:27.760 --> 01:09:30.960
<v Speaker 3>between being and becoming. And these guys laugh and they

911
01:09:31.000 --> 01:09:34.600
<v Speaker 3>make fun of talking about dialectics. They are you not

912
01:09:34.720 --> 01:09:37.359
<v Speaker 3>aware how prominent this is in the Church Fathers. How

913
01:09:37.479 --> 01:09:41.239
<v Speaker 3>constantly they're talking about the heretics being caught up in dialectics.

914
01:09:45.000 --> 01:09:48.199
<v Speaker 3>It's in all of them. Athanasius rebukes the Arians for it,

915
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:52.279
<v Speaker 3>Basil rebukes the Eunomians for it. Nissa rebukes the Eunomians

916
01:09:52.319 --> 01:09:56.279
<v Speaker 3>for it. Saint Maximus rebukes the Monothelites for it. Nestorius

917
01:09:56.319 --> 01:09:59.399
<v Speaker 3>gets rebuked for it. Because they're obsessed with either or

918
01:09:59.520 --> 01:10:14.439
<v Speaker 3>dialect So in our review, and if you read Father

919
01:10:14.520 --> 01:10:17.239
<v Speaker 3>Steine Eelloyd, if you read Orthodox Dogmatics Volume one, then

920
01:10:17.239 --> 01:10:20.720
<v Speaker 3>you know that he has an awesome chapter on not

921
01:10:20.920 --> 01:10:24.039
<v Speaker 3>just the problems of absolute simplicity, but the problems of

922
01:10:24.079 --> 01:10:28.159
<v Speaker 3>the dialectic between stasis and change. That's why for us,

923
01:10:28.239 --> 01:10:36.640
<v Speaker 3>the afterlife is different. There's not just stasis. There's real

924
01:10:36.800 --> 01:10:39.800
<v Speaker 3>change in the afterlife because we're not playing this bro.

925
01:10:42.119 --> 01:10:46.920
<v Speaker 3>And there's an extensive section where Father steinyeloin and Volume

926
01:10:47.000 --> 01:10:53.399
<v Speaker 3>one just completely annihilates this stupid argument. Now, that's going

927
01:10:53.439 --> 01:10:55.239
<v Speaker 3>to be true for Origanism, and it's also true for

928
01:10:55.279 --> 01:10:57.239
<v Speaker 3>all the paganisms, because are you are starting to see

929
01:10:57.239 --> 01:11:01.199
<v Speaker 3>how a lot of these systems are because they start

930
01:11:01.239 --> 01:11:06.920
<v Speaker 3>with the same errors and problems. So nature can't be

931
01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:11.760
<v Speaker 3>interpreted without creation. The fall, death becomes natural history becomes

932
01:11:11.880 --> 01:11:15.359
<v Speaker 3>cyclical and meaningless and illusory. Ultimately, I would argue, if

933
01:11:15.399 --> 01:11:19.560
<v Speaker 3>you're consistent in this system, perfection in this scheme is

934
01:11:19.720 --> 01:11:24.359
<v Speaker 3>perfect unity. Why is perfect unity somehow perfection? All these

935
01:11:24.439 --> 01:11:27.800
<v Speaker 3>dumb philosophic systems, all the systems based on chain of being,

936
01:11:28.239 --> 01:11:32.439
<v Speaker 3>they all have this assumption that perfection is somehow a

937
01:11:32.600 --> 01:11:37.439
<v Speaker 3>perfect unity or monad. Well, that kind of introduces a gradation,

938
01:11:37.680 --> 01:11:40.239
<v Speaker 3>and the Trinity, doesn't it, Yes, it does. But Basil says,

939
01:11:40.319 --> 01:11:42.279
<v Speaker 3>God is not more one than he is three, and

940
01:11:42.319 --> 01:11:44.199
<v Speaker 3>he's not more three than he is one. So there's

941
01:11:44.199 --> 01:11:46.560
<v Speaker 3>the perfect balance of the one the many in the

942
01:11:46.640 --> 01:11:49.359
<v Speaker 3>Trinity according to the Eastern Fathers. So we don't want

943
01:11:49.399 --> 01:11:51.840
<v Speaker 3>any of this gradations of being, We don't want any

944
01:11:52.239 --> 01:11:53.600
<v Speaker 3>gradations of nonsense.

945
01:11:57.439 --> 01:11:57.800
<v Speaker 5>In God.

946
01:11:57.880 --> 01:12:05.800
<v Speaker 3>There is perfect unity. In perfect change is not a

947
01:12:05.960 --> 01:12:10.279
<v Speaker 3>lesser onto logical status. Somebody saying, why don't you do

948
01:12:10.359 --> 01:12:12.560
<v Speaker 3>a talk on why death isn't natural? I already did one.

949
01:12:13.239 --> 01:12:21.039
<v Speaker 3>It's in the natural theology talk. No Greeks ever taught creation.

950
01:12:21.399 --> 01:12:24.680
<v Speaker 3>No Greeks taught creation x neilo. No Greeks teach or

951
01:12:24.800 --> 01:12:28.840
<v Speaker 3>taught or ancient philosophers taught that man's problem is primarily moral.

952
01:12:30.119 --> 01:12:32.000
<v Speaker 3>If they taught that man's problem is a lack of

953
01:12:32.079 --> 01:12:37.279
<v Speaker 3>facts in education, no, that's not man's problem. Do you

954
01:12:37.359 --> 01:12:40.880
<v Speaker 3>see that at each point our system doesn't work with

955
01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:44.079
<v Speaker 3>the Greeks. Now, the Greeks might have read Isaiah, they

956
01:12:44.159 --> 01:12:46.880
<v Speaker 3>might have read Moses. We don't know. Many church fathers

957
01:12:46.920 --> 01:12:50.520
<v Speaker 3>thought maybe they did. Doesn't really matter. The point being

958
01:12:50.680 --> 01:12:54.560
<v Speaker 3>is that ours is the true system, and whatever truth

959
01:12:54.720 --> 01:12:59.239
<v Speaker 3>they have is from us, dude, not the other way around. Now,

960
01:12:59.319 --> 01:13:01.520
<v Speaker 3>if they say something true and they didn't learn it

961
01:13:01.600 --> 01:13:04.880
<v Speaker 3>from our system, it's still from us, because it's from

962
01:13:04.920 --> 01:13:07.960
<v Speaker 3>the logos that they have, from the logos of God.

963
01:13:17.840 --> 01:13:20.319
<v Speaker 3>All right. So the next as we move up then

964
01:13:20.359 --> 01:13:23.600
<v Speaker 3>to history. History for us is not a historical and

965
01:13:23.720 --> 01:13:27.159
<v Speaker 3>meaningless and a prison to escape from the God of

966
01:13:28.359 --> 01:13:34.560
<v Speaker 3>Creation stepped into history. History is meaningful if you go

967
01:13:34.680 --> 01:13:38.239
<v Speaker 3>listen to the talk I did on Genesis versus atheists

968
01:13:38.239 --> 01:13:41.000
<v Speaker 3>and Pagans, I talk about this. If you listen to

969
01:13:41.039 --> 01:13:44.760
<v Speaker 3>the talk I did about Aaron Aus's anti Gnostic work

970
01:13:44.920 --> 01:13:48.520
<v Speaker 3>against heresies. If you go listen to my against Gnoscissism talk,

971
01:13:48.640 --> 01:13:51.960
<v Speaker 3>I outline like ten things that set us off against

972
01:13:52.399 --> 01:13:55.159
<v Speaker 3>the world religions and against the Pagans and the Gnostics.

973
01:13:56.119 --> 01:13:59.319
<v Speaker 3>So the zeitgy shit doesn't work, dude, because literally we

974
01:13:59.439 --> 01:14:05.520
<v Speaker 3>havemultiple distinctives that no other religions have. And just saying that, well,

975
01:14:05.920 --> 01:14:10.960
<v Speaker 3>there's another religion that has a similar idea of the

976
01:14:11.039 --> 01:14:14.960
<v Speaker 3>God's birthing a world out of sexual intercourse. That's not creation.

977
01:14:15.359 --> 01:14:19.720
<v Speaker 3>We don't teach that, and that's not similar. Well, there's

978
01:14:19.760 --> 01:14:22.199
<v Speaker 3>a there's a kind of weird triad in some religion.

979
01:14:22.239 --> 01:14:25.479
<v Speaker 3>I heard one time. The Vedic texts have a try

980
01:14:25.600 --> 01:14:28.880
<v Speaker 3>that triad is nothing like what we teach. What we

981
01:14:29.000 --> 01:14:33.399
<v Speaker 3>teach is nothing like a triad in Plato, it's not

982
01:14:33.479 --> 01:14:41.560
<v Speaker 3>anything like it. As Basil says, the one is he

983
01:14:41.880 --> 01:14:42.119
<v Speaker 3>not it?

984
01:14:45.840 --> 01:14:46.119
<v Speaker 1>All? Right?

985
01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:49.439
<v Speaker 3>Next we see that again, this dialectic of perfection being

986
01:14:49.600 --> 01:14:53.720
<v Speaker 3>unity is a philosophic assumption that is not there's no

987
01:14:54.680 --> 01:14:57.720
<v Speaker 3>self evident truth to that it's not self evident that

988
01:14:57.920 --> 01:15:01.840
<v Speaker 3>unity is somehow some higher ontolage go better state on

989
01:15:02.000 --> 01:15:04.960
<v Speaker 3>what basis. But as you see, with all these guys

990
01:15:05.279 --> 01:15:09.199
<v Speaker 3>who are especially Aristitilian, they've never thought to question paradigms

991
01:15:09.239 --> 01:15:11.720
<v Speaker 3>and presuppositions. They don't know what I mean. You would

992
01:15:11.720 --> 01:15:14.840
<v Speaker 3>think Aristotilians might know about what a transcendental argument is,

993
01:15:15.079 --> 01:15:17.680
<v Speaker 3>given the fact that the metaphysics makes a transtal argument,

994
01:15:17.920 --> 01:15:22.000
<v Speaker 3>but they don't actually know about presubpositional thought and questioning presubositions.

995
01:15:22.600 --> 01:15:24.760
<v Speaker 3>And that's why they never win these debates, and they

996
01:15:24.800 --> 01:15:27.319
<v Speaker 3>never will unless they start learning what I talk about.

997
01:15:31.600 --> 01:15:36.439
<v Speaker 3>So we see the assumptions of neutrality, the assumptions of

998
01:15:36.560 --> 01:15:39.720
<v Speaker 3>the idea that well, we all know what existence is, right,

999
01:15:39.800 --> 01:15:42.960
<v Speaker 3>so I can start by talking about everything exists, right,

1000
01:15:43.199 --> 01:15:47.680
<v Speaker 3>everything that is exists? Oh do we really now? In

1001
01:15:47.800 --> 01:15:51.920
<v Speaker 3>my worldview? Everything that exists in this world is created

1002
01:15:54.039 --> 01:15:59.520
<v Speaker 3>in your worldview? It's not so existence itself is completely

1003
01:15:59.560 --> 01:16:03.680
<v Speaker 3>different from your view to mind, they're not unifical terms

1004
01:16:03.800 --> 01:16:06.520
<v Speaker 3>just because it's the same vowels coming out of our mouths.

1005
01:16:09.439 --> 01:16:15.000
<v Speaker 3>It's vastly different existence in Aristotle, not the same thing

1006
01:16:15.159 --> 01:16:18.279
<v Speaker 3>is what it means in Christian theology. For us, all

1007
01:16:18.399 --> 01:16:21.279
<v Speaker 3>that exists is made by God. And what is Paul

1008
01:16:21.319 --> 01:16:24.880
<v Speaker 3>say and Colossians. It's held in being. It subsists in

1009
01:16:25.079 --> 01:16:32.119
<v Speaker 3>the logos. It's not pre existing eternal matter. It's not

1010
01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:40.039
<v Speaker 3>premia material. It's created matter, created forms that have their

1011
01:16:40.239 --> 01:16:43.399
<v Speaker 3>meaning and their grounding in the logi, the logo, the

1012
01:16:43.520 --> 01:16:48.000
<v Speaker 3>logi in the logos. Why is that? Because everything that

1013
01:16:48.079 --> 01:16:51.359
<v Speaker 3>exists in the world is triadic from the Father, through

1014
01:16:51.399 --> 01:16:54.199
<v Speaker 3>the Son and the Spirit. Everything the world was created

1015
01:16:54.239 --> 01:17:01.159
<v Speaker 3>that way, redemption happened that way. That's basal dictum. So

1016
01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:06.000
<v Speaker 3>being and existence are not self evident terms that don't

1017
01:17:06.079 --> 01:17:10.640
<v Speaker 3>come theory laden. They're not neutral terms that are self interpreted.

1018
01:17:11.359 --> 01:17:18.880
<v Speaker 3>They are theory laden terms and claims, he says being,

1019
01:17:19.239 --> 01:17:27.199
<v Speaker 3>I say, what do you mean created? Uncreated? They're not

1020
01:17:27.399 --> 01:17:32.840
<v Speaker 3>unifical terms. But every attempt to approach these goofy philosophical

1021
01:17:32.920 --> 01:17:37.720
<v Speaker 3>systems and import too much of them makes this mistake.

1022
01:17:39.680 --> 01:17:41.319
<v Speaker 3>I need to do a talk just on this and

1023
01:17:41.399 --> 01:17:43.800
<v Speaker 3>hammer at home. I'm going to call it Jerusalem versus Athens.

1024
01:17:49.640 --> 01:17:52.119
<v Speaker 3>So no Greeks taught creation, No Greeks taught that creation

1025
01:17:52.319 --> 01:17:54.479
<v Speaker 3>was a free act by a personal God. No Greeks

1026
01:17:54.520 --> 01:17:57.920
<v Speaker 3>taught that God is personal for them. It's ultimate reality

1027
01:17:58.000 --> 01:18:01.680
<v Speaker 3>is impersonal. Now, once any has made this concession that

1028
01:18:01.840 --> 01:18:04.960
<v Speaker 3>ultimate reality is impersonal, they've already lost a debate. It's

1029
01:18:05.000 --> 01:18:08.359
<v Speaker 3>over because it means that chaos ultimately is what rules

1030
01:18:08.399 --> 01:18:10.600
<v Speaker 3>and reigns. And you could say, well, it's not. Chaos

1031
01:18:10.720 --> 01:18:13.800
<v Speaker 3>is a bunch of abstract principles. A bunch of abstract

1032
01:18:14.159 --> 01:18:17.680
<v Speaker 3>principles can't string together all the different abstract principles to

1033
01:18:17.880 --> 01:18:21.399
<v Speaker 3>be coherent. How does law? How does the law of

1034
01:18:21.520 --> 01:18:23.800
<v Speaker 3>logic relate to the principle of love in the world?

1035
01:18:25.640 --> 01:18:27.680
<v Speaker 3>How does the How do those two different things relate

1036
01:18:27.720 --> 01:18:31.479
<v Speaker 3>to the concept of a soul or a self? How

1037
01:18:31.520 --> 01:18:35.239
<v Speaker 3>do those three things relate to the concept of past, present,

1038
01:18:35.279 --> 01:18:41.319
<v Speaker 3>and future? They don't. They're just abstract categories that are

1039
01:18:41.359 --> 01:18:45.319
<v Speaker 3>placeholders in the system that don't really have any real

1040
01:18:45.439 --> 01:18:47.920
<v Speaker 3>relation to one another, unless we just assume that they do.

1041
01:18:49.119 --> 01:18:52.960
<v Speaker 3>But if there's an all knowing, provident God who's omniscience,

1042
01:18:54.319 --> 01:18:57.039
<v Speaker 3>then he's the one who strings all these things together

1043
01:18:57.159 --> 01:18:59.439
<v Speaker 3>and holds them in being, as Paul says, and makes

1044
01:18:59.600 --> 01:19:02.640
<v Speaker 3>sense of all these different categories and gives us the

1045
01:19:02.720 --> 01:19:10.159
<v Speaker 3>possibility for them all relating in a meaningful way. The

1046
01:19:10.239 --> 01:19:15.119
<v Speaker 3>divine mind is needed then in this system to hold

1047
01:19:15.159 --> 01:19:21.520
<v Speaker 3>these categories together and to make sense of them. Now,

1048
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:24.920
<v Speaker 3>as we move on to a little more difficult concepts

1049
01:19:25.079 --> 01:19:27.720
<v Speaker 3>in this Now, by the way, we've come all the

1050
01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:29.680
<v Speaker 3>way up from the beginning of creation to man and

1051
01:19:29.720 --> 01:19:32.399
<v Speaker 3>the incarnation, let's talk about the end of history as well,

1052
01:19:32.479 --> 01:19:35.800
<v Speaker 3>because the coming of Christ's and history and the resurrection,

1053
01:19:36.399 --> 01:19:41.359
<v Speaker 3>that's the definitive signaling of the meaning of all history, past, president,

1054
01:19:41.399 --> 01:19:44.239
<v Speaker 3>and future. So it's an aschatologe. When Christ is resurrected

1055
01:19:44.319 --> 01:19:48.279
<v Speaker 3>is an eschaological event. I'm not saying there's not an

1056
01:19:48.359 --> 01:19:50.079
<v Speaker 3>end of the world. There is, but we are now

1057
01:19:50.159 --> 01:19:55.680
<v Speaker 3>living in the Church age, the Messianic age, right, and

1058
01:19:56.800 --> 01:20:02.399
<v Speaker 3>that same covenant has been open to the Gentiles. Point being,

1059
01:20:06.880 --> 01:20:12.840
<v Speaker 3>the body is good, you know all these dumb Greek systems.

1060
01:20:13.159 --> 01:20:16.720
<v Speaker 3>The body is not good. Now, Aristotle trusts to temper this, right.

1061
01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:18.600
<v Speaker 3>Aristotle doesn't have a problem with the body, so he

1062
01:20:18.680 --> 01:20:22.079
<v Speaker 3>departs from Plato's gnostic nonsense. He says, they know the

1063
01:20:22.119 --> 01:20:27.000
<v Speaker 3>body is not that bad, right, There's not eternal life

1064
01:20:27.039 --> 01:20:29.039
<v Speaker 3>in the body. You just kind of die, and then

1065
01:20:29.119 --> 01:20:33.960
<v Speaker 3>your monad soul seeds. They go off into another being

1066
01:20:34.119 --> 01:20:38.880
<v Speaker 3>that forms again, you know, maybe something cyclical. Right, we

1067
01:20:38.960 --> 01:20:44.920
<v Speaker 3>don't exactly know how this works, but you know, you

1068
01:20:45.079 --> 01:20:49.079
<v Speaker 3>go back into nature and then nature forms another kid

1069
01:20:49.399 --> 01:20:52.399
<v Speaker 3>down the road. So there's no eternal life in this system,

1070
01:20:53.600 --> 01:20:55.319
<v Speaker 3>and there's not a god in this system that actually

1071
01:20:55.359 --> 01:20:58.119
<v Speaker 3>relates to the world. The God of Aristotle is thought,

1072
01:20:58.199 --> 01:21:04.399
<v Speaker 3>thinking itself. Now pause for a minute. Thought thinking itself, self, referential,

1073
01:21:04.479 --> 01:21:09.800
<v Speaker 3>abstract thought is the ultimate good in God here. Well,

1074
01:21:09.840 --> 01:21:13.479
<v Speaker 3>that sounds a lot like Greek philosophy, doesn't it. So

1075
01:21:13.600 --> 01:21:18.520
<v Speaker 3>Aristotle's God is just the personified Greek It's just the

1076
01:21:18.680 --> 01:21:23.920
<v Speaker 3>ultimate idea of Greek philosophy. What's the highest possible goal? Well,

1077
01:21:23.960 --> 01:21:28.319
<v Speaker 3>it's like thinking, man, well, what could be higher than

1078
01:21:28.359 --> 01:21:35.560
<v Speaker 3>thinking thought thinking itself? Which is total nonsense. So anyway,

1079
01:21:36.199 --> 01:21:39.600
<v Speaker 3>so again, it's a god who's not related to you.

1080
01:21:39.800 --> 01:21:42.960
<v Speaker 3>He's unknowable. He doesn't have any direct interaction in this world.

1081
01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:48.760
<v Speaker 3>He's either a one unmoved mover or fifty five unmoved movers.

1082
01:21:53.600 --> 01:21:56.640
<v Speaker 3>What similarity is? Does that bear to Exodus three fourteen

1083
01:21:56.720 --> 01:22:02.000
<v Speaker 3>I am that I am none? Is it true that

1084
01:22:02.079 --> 01:22:05.319
<v Speaker 3>God is the first cause in an unmove mover. Yeah,

1085
01:22:06.560 --> 01:22:10.239
<v Speaker 3>but it's true because Christianity is true and that God

1086
01:22:10.359 --> 01:22:14.920
<v Speaker 3>is personal, not an impersonal abstract force. Now, why do

1087
01:22:14.960 --> 01:22:16.840
<v Speaker 3>all these pagans do this? I'm gonna get you here's

1088
01:22:16.840 --> 01:22:19.560
<v Speaker 3>the real secret to this. That's because, guess what, you're

1089
01:22:19.600 --> 01:22:23.600
<v Speaker 3>not accountable to a number. You're not accountable to gravity.

1090
01:22:24.720 --> 01:22:26.319
<v Speaker 3>You don't have to give an account of your life

1091
01:22:27.439 --> 01:22:31.159
<v Speaker 3>to gravity, to the number seven. So that's why they

1092
01:22:31.199 --> 01:22:36.319
<v Speaker 3>love abstract principles. But if there's a personal God, you've

1093
01:22:36.319 --> 01:22:38.199
<v Speaker 3>got to give an account to your life, and you

1094
01:22:38.359 --> 01:22:43.119
<v Speaker 3>have duties and obligations and so forth, and there's a

1095
01:22:43.199 --> 01:22:46.199
<v Speaker 3>moral law that you have to follow to take commandments matter.

1096
01:22:54.479 --> 01:22:59.319
<v Speaker 3>In other words, it would require repentance, it would require

1097
01:23:00.039 --> 01:23:03.000
<v Speaker 3>a change of mind, metanoia, and a change of worldview.

1098
01:23:13.840 --> 01:23:19.159
<v Speaker 3>In this view, although it makes a big hubub about Tilos,

1099
01:23:20.399 --> 01:23:26.039
<v Speaker 3>there's actually not an overriding Tulos. There's tilos in objects.

1100
01:23:26.159 --> 01:23:29.039
<v Speaker 3>The acorn becomes the tree right in Aristotle in the

1101
01:23:29.119 --> 01:23:33.279
<v Speaker 3>four causes. But actually, in reality that's just from the

1102
01:23:33.359 --> 01:23:38.199
<v Speaker 3>human vantage point. Do we know that an acorn really

1103
01:23:38.239 --> 01:23:41.920
<v Speaker 3>possesses tilos in the overall universal scheme of things? No,

1104
01:23:42.079 --> 01:23:48.600
<v Speaker 3>we don't. So really, tilos is a purely subjective human

1105
01:23:48.640 --> 01:23:51.439
<v Speaker 3>advantage point category for things. It's not a thing actually

1106
01:23:51.520 --> 01:23:55.119
<v Speaker 3>in things, because there's not an overriding Telos to the universe. Now,

1107
01:23:55.199 --> 01:23:57.039
<v Speaker 3>later on the you know, like Thomas, they will try

1108
01:23:57.079 --> 01:23:59.520
<v Speaker 3>to take the telos argument and make it into a

1109
01:23:59.600 --> 01:24:03.960
<v Speaker 3>teleogical argument for all of reality. If I mean, if

1110
01:24:04.000 --> 01:24:09.880
<v Speaker 3>you understand, you could make an an a transcendental tilos argument.

1111
01:24:10.399 --> 01:24:13.079
<v Speaker 3>A transcendental form of the teleological argument would be valid.

1112
01:24:14.039 --> 01:24:17.560
<v Speaker 3>But the problem with just making a bare teleological argument

1113
01:24:17.600 --> 01:24:23.159
<v Speaker 3>assumes that tilos is a self evident, neutral, uninterpreted term,

1114
01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:25.920
<v Speaker 3>just like we saw earlier with being in existence, And

1115
01:24:26.039 --> 01:24:26.279
<v Speaker 3>it's not.

1116
01:24:27.039 --> 01:24:27.079
<v Speaker 4>So.

1117
01:24:27.119 --> 01:24:28.880
<v Speaker 3>Remember when I started quizzing, if you heard the debate,

1118
01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:30.880
<v Speaker 3>I started asking him, now, wait a minute, so tell

1119
01:24:30.920 --> 01:24:33.479
<v Speaker 3>me how you got to this conclusion on your self

1120
01:24:33.520 --> 01:24:35.840
<v Speaker 3>evident maxims? Which ones did you kind of build up on?

1121
01:24:35.880 --> 01:24:38.319
<v Speaker 3>Where does it start? And how do you start building

1122
01:24:38.359 --> 01:24:40.840
<v Speaker 3>this system? And what does he do? He appeals to

1123
01:24:40.960 --> 01:24:44.640
<v Speaker 3>things that he thinks he thought were just obvious and

1124
01:24:44.720 --> 01:24:47.640
<v Speaker 3>self evident. Oh, but they are not. And that's the key.

1125
01:24:48.119 --> 01:24:50.600
<v Speaker 3>So when you start talking about oh well, I look

1126
01:24:50.640 --> 01:24:52.399
<v Speaker 3>out at the world and I start reasoning about the

1127
01:24:52.439 --> 01:24:55.279
<v Speaker 3>world no reason, and you look out at the world

1128
01:24:55.520 --> 01:24:59.840
<v Speaker 3>so experience sense data, and then you start talking about

1129
01:24:59.840 --> 01:25:01.520
<v Speaker 3>how the hylomorphisms out there.

1130
01:25:01.439 --> 01:25:01.760
<v Speaker 9>In the world.

1131
01:25:01.800 --> 01:25:03.520
<v Speaker 3>Oh wait a minute, now you're bringing in new terms

1132
01:25:03.560 --> 01:25:06.359
<v Speaker 3>and ideas that you thought were just self evident and obvious.

1133
01:25:06.439 --> 01:25:09.760
<v Speaker 3>But these are actually other ideas that are not yet

1134
01:25:10.039 --> 01:25:17.600
<v Speaker 3>vindicated or justified. So then he starts bringing in I'm

1135
01:25:17.600 --> 01:25:19.680
<v Speaker 3>trying to remember the other things he started repealing to.

1136
01:25:19.760 --> 01:25:21.479
<v Speaker 3>He appealed to all these Oh, he says, well, it's

1137
01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:29.079
<v Speaker 3>just part of being a human. Really human. You think

1138
01:25:29.119 --> 01:25:32.600
<v Speaker 3>that's a neutral term that doesn't come as in a

1139
01:25:32.760 --> 01:25:38.800
<v Speaker 3>theory laden way. Human doesn't come to us as part

1140
01:25:38.840 --> 01:25:44.640
<v Speaker 3>of a worldview. It's a self evident term and idea. No,

1141
01:25:46.600 --> 01:25:49.880
<v Speaker 3>what does human mean to me? It's completely different than

1142
01:25:49.920 --> 01:25:53.119
<v Speaker 3>what it means to the Aristilian. To him, it's just

1143
01:25:53.239 --> 01:25:57.680
<v Speaker 3>a vegetative form that comes from natural processes and then

1144
01:25:58.239 --> 01:26:04.760
<v Speaker 3>disintegrates into dirt. For us, human means made in the

1145
01:26:04.800 --> 01:26:09.000
<v Speaker 3>image of God, a nature restored by the incarnation and

1146
01:26:09.159 --> 01:26:15.319
<v Speaker 3>destined to live in all eternity with God. So completely

1147
01:26:15.359 --> 01:26:17.920
<v Speaker 3>different ideas about what human means. So human is not

1148
01:26:18.119 --> 01:26:21.680
<v Speaker 3>self evident and that's the root of this problem here

1149
01:26:21.800 --> 01:26:25.039
<v Speaker 3>of all of these systems that are classical foundationalists, is

1150
01:26:25.079 --> 01:26:29.520
<v Speaker 3>that they all assume neutrality, and they assume that ideas, concepts,

1151
01:26:29.760 --> 01:26:37.960
<v Speaker 3>terms are theory neutral and system neutral and don't require interpretation.

1152
01:26:38.439 --> 01:26:46.439
<v Speaker 3>They're interpretively neutral. They're not none of them are. Can't

1153
01:26:46.479 --> 01:26:56.399
<v Speaker 3>you see that again? Nature, it's not self evident to

1154
01:26:56.479 --> 01:27:01.359
<v Speaker 3>everybody what nature is, because it's going to be dependent

1155
01:27:01.479 --> 01:27:08.319
<v Speaker 3>on the rest of my worldview what nature means. So

1156
01:27:08.560 --> 01:27:12.319
<v Speaker 3>he immediately starts on the spill of all of these

1157
01:27:12.359 --> 01:27:18.199
<v Speaker 3>different categories and concepts and very abuse metaphysical baggage things

1158
01:27:19.479 --> 01:27:23.039
<v Speaker 3>that he acts like, we're just well, it's obviously we

1159
01:27:23.119 --> 01:27:25.479
<v Speaker 3>know what existence is, right, it's the things that exist

1160
01:27:26.399 --> 01:27:31.319
<v Speaker 3>what No, it's not obvious, right, And so what happens

1161
01:27:31.359 --> 01:27:33.039
<v Speaker 3>if he had been more schooled in philosophy in the

1162
01:27:33.079 --> 01:27:37.159
<v Speaker 3>history of philosophy, he would realize that actually, as philosophy developed,

1163
01:27:37.720 --> 01:27:41.920
<v Speaker 3>people begin to question those assumptions. Now I'm not saying

1164
01:27:41.960 --> 01:27:45.319
<v Speaker 3>that Hume and these different enlightened characters are ultimately correct,

1165
01:27:45.560 --> 01:27:49.199
<v Speaker 3>but they are ultimately correct to on the basis of

1166
01:27:49.279 --> 01:27:54.720
<v Speaker 3>classical foundationalism start to question assumptions and start to ask, hey,

1167
01:27:54.760 --> 01:27:57.960
<v Speaker 3>wait a minute, do we really know if existence is

1168
01:27:58.119 --> 01:28:02.039
<v Speaker 3>a neutral term? It seems to kind of go along

1169
01:28:02.079 --> 01:28:06.079
<v Speaker 3>with a bunch of other baggage and your philosophy. Oh, absolutely,

1170
01:28:06.359 --> 01:28:10.119
<v Speaker 3>of course it does. This is why you can't appeal

1171
01:28:10.199 --> 01:28:12.920
<v Speaker 3>to some kind of generic being argument for God. You

1172
01:28:12.960 --> 01:28:19.000
<v Speaker 3>can't appeal to some generic Tilos concept, because Tilos is

1173
01:28:19.159 --> 01:28:22.880
<v Speaker 3>only possible if the God that we believe in exists.

1174
01:28:23.359 --> 01:28:27.000
<v Speaker 3>That's why this apologetic is better. It's a much stronger

1175
01:28:27.199 --> 01:28:34.520
<v Speaker 3>argument than the weak SOI tomist arguments, the five ways

1176
01:28:34.560 --> 01:28:40.359
<v Speaker 3>of SOI. Those arguments are weak because they assume neutrality.

1177
01:28:41.199 --> 01:28:47.279
<v Speaker 3>They assume that beliefs and terms aren't theory laden. But

1178
01:28:47.359 --> 01:28:58.800
<v Speaker 3>guess what they are. So being, human, nature, all these

1179
01:28:58.880 --> 01:29:01.479
<v Speaker 3>things he thinks he's a apeealing to that are self evident. No,

1180
01:29:01.560 --> 01:29:07.520
<v Speaker 3>they're not. And I absolutely nailed him on that in

1181
01:29:07.560 --> 01:29:13.159
<v Speaker 3>the debate. In fact, he wasn't ready for that. He was,

1182
01:29:21.159 --> 01:29:26.520
<v Speaker 3>all right, let's see being as not unifical, existence, human

1183
01:29:26.720 --> 01:29:38.159
<v Speaker 3>These terms are not self evident, he says, change in motion. Yeah, okay,

1184
01:29:38.199 --> 01:29:40.880
<v Speaker 3>So it doesn't make sense to say, oh, I remember telos,

1185
01:29:40.920 --> 01:29:44.640
<v Speaker 3>that's what we're talking about. So telos isn't theory neutral. Well,

1186
01:29:44.880 --> 01:29:50.359
<v Speaker 3>it just means purpose. Yeah, purpose is not theory neutral obviously,

1187
01:29:51.880 --> 01:29:57.000
<v Speaker 3>And this is a key criticism of Aerosol himself. We're

1188
01:29:57.039 --> 01:29:59.279
<v Speaker 3>not talking about this guy, but let's look at Aerosol himself.

1189
01:29:59.600 --> 01:30:03.720
<v Speaker 3>If change and motion are eternal, well, actually, this is

1190
01:30:03.760 --> 01:30:07.279
<v Speaker 3>a good critique of the unmoved mover first cause argument.

1191
01:30:07.359 --> 01:30:09.520
<v Speaker 3>So if you reason back to why there has to

1192
01:30:09.600 --> 01:30:14.960
<v Speaker 3>be a first cause, no, there doesn't. And Aristotle's first

1193
01:30:15.039 --> 01:30:18.239
<v Speaker 3>cause is not the same thing as the Christian ex nilo,

1194
01:30:18.840 --> 01:30:22.319
<v Speaker 3>So really it doesn't work because of change in motion

1195
01:30:22.399 --> 01:30:27.119
<v Speaker 3>are eternal, then there is no beginning. Aristol didn't think

1196
01:30:27.159 --> 01:30:31.439
<v Speaker 3>that the world had a beginning. It's eternal matter that's

1197
01:30:31.840 --> 01:30:38.000
<v Speaker 3>formed into the forms that are here presently. And so,

1198
01:30:38.119 --> 01:30:42.880
<v Speaker 3>in other words, you can't utilize Aristotle's for causes because

1199
01:30:42.920 --> 01:30:46.359
<v Speaker 3>in Aristotle's system, when you reason back to the unmoved mover,

1200
01:30:47.520 --> 01:30:54.640
<v Speaker 3>there's no efficient cause. So Aristotol's ugmentation is awful for apologetics,

1201
01:30:54.720 --> 01:31:00.079
<v Speaker 3>it's terrible. There's no efficient cause in the beginning on

1202
01:31:00.119 --> 01:31:04.680
<v Speaker 3>the part of the unmove mover. Now why do we

1203
01:31:04.760 --> 01:31:13.680
<v Speaker 3>say that, because again, what are the four causes material?

1204
01:31:14.800 --> 01:31:18.560
<v Speaker 3>And this would be like matter premia, materia, the substance,

1205
01:31:18.600 --> 01:31:23.279
<v Speaker 3>the stuffiness, right, the formal cause, all right, this is

1206
01:31:23.359 --> 01:31:28.399
<v Speaker 3>what impresses the form that an object has. So we've

1207
01:31:28.439 --> 01:31:33.760
<v Speaker 3>got the clay, we stamp it with the rectangle square.

1208
01:31:33.840 --> 01:31:36.119
<v Speaker 3>It's a brick. It becomes a brick, all right, that's

1209
01:31:38.039 --> 01:31:43.560
<v Speaker 3>formal cause. The efficient cause is me doing it. The

1210
01:31:43.640 --> 01:31:49.119
<v Speaker 3>final cause is the telos. Now, the unmoved mover isn't

1211
01:31:49.199 --> 01:31:55.960
<v Speaker 3>really an efficient cause. I know that the Thomas want

1212
01:31:56.039 --> 01:32:00.960
<v Speaker 3>to make him that, but he's not really because there's

1213
01:32:01.000 --> 01:32:06.479
<v Speaker 3>not a beginning in this system, because it's not creation

1214
01:32:06.640 --> 01:32:09.840
<v Speaker 3>x neilo. It's eternal matter being formed into something that

1215
01:32:09.840 --> 01:32:13.359
<v Speaker 3>doesn't make any sense, eternal matter being given form. That's

1216
01:32:13.399 --> 01:32:17.880
<v Speaker 3>a change in things. If there's a change in things,

1217
01:32:18.680 --> 01:32:25.640
<v Speaker 3>then there's not a beginning. There's not a beginning because

1218
01:32:25.680 --> 01:32:30.680
<v Speaker 3>it's eternal. You see, eternal matter is changed. It's nonsense.

1219
01:32:32.760 --> 01:32:45.000
<v Speaker 3>There you go. And this is because, of course, in

1220
01:32:45.119 --> 01:32:49.239
<v Speaker 3>Aristotle he wanted to deal with change and identity over change.

1221
01:32:49.279 --> 01:32:55.239
<v Speaker 3>That's a central problem in Aristotle. So there's not really

1222
01:32:55.279 --> 01:32:58.119
<v Speaker 3>an unmoved mover who can function as the efficient cause

1223
01:32:58.199 --> 01:33:00.640
<v Speaker 3>of things at the beginning of time. And there's no

1224
01:33:00.760 --> 01:33:03.560
<v Speaker 3>reason to assume by reasoning back through a chain of

1225
01:33:03.680 --> 01:33:07.640
<v Speaker 3>causes that there had to be one andover. Maybe there's

1226
01:33:07.680 --> 01:33:14.119
<v Speaker 3>fifty five unmoved movers see and Aristotle contradicts himself on

1227
01:33:14.199 --> 01:33:17.359
<v Speaker 3>that point. So why anybody would want to try to

1228
01:33:17.520 --> 01:33:25.520
<v Speaker 3>co opt this argument? It's beyond me. It's dumb. There's

1229
01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:28.680
<v Speaker 3>not really Telos in the world because there's not a

1230
01:33:28.800 --> 01:33:34.159
<v Speaker 3>singular divine mind that providentially orders and regulates and relates

1231
01:33:34.640 --> 01:33:39.840
<v Speaker 3>all things to each other. Therefore, Telos cannot be applicable

1232
01:33:40.399 --> 01:33:43.640
<v Speaker 3>to the universe as a whole. It's a subjective human

1233
01:33:44.159 --> 01:33:49.760
<v Speaker 3>predicate of phenomena in their experience. For example, is ninety

1234
01:33:49.840 --> 01:33:55.039
<v Speaker 3>degrees a property in the object? For Aristotle he has

1235
01:33:55.079 --> 01:33:58.800
<v Speaker 3>to say yes because of islomorphism, because of objects being

1236
01:33:58.840 --> 01:34:07.439
<v Speaker 3>basically simple unity, ninety degrees is actually in that object? No,

1237
01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:10.479
<v Speaker 3>come on. And then when we think about more abstract

1238
01:34:10.560 --> 01:34:13.239
<v Speaker 3>mathematical things like Mandelbrot sets. Oh wait, now, wait a minute,

1239
01:34:13.279 --> 01:34:18.119
<v Speaker 3>where are they? Remember we wanted to squish everything in

1240
01:34:18.359 --> 01:34:21.239
<v Speaker 3>Plato's ideal realm into the here and the now, into

1241
01:34:21.319 --> 01:34:24.720
<v Speaker 3>the objects. Where is a Mandelbrot set out there in

1242
01:34:24.760 --> 01:34:29.640
<v Speaker 3>the world nowhere? So that doesn't work. And actually, in

1243
01:34:29.720 --> 01:34:31.640
<v Speaker 3>one of my grad classes I had. I had two

1244
01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:36.520
<v Speaker 3>grad Aristotle professors who were high high level dudes, doctor

1245
01:34:36.560 --> 01:34:40.279
<v Speaker 3>Robinson and doctor Goggins, And under doctor Goggins, I did

1246
01:34:40.319 --> 01:34:42.359
<v Speaker 3>a paper and he specialized in a lot of these

1247
01:34:42.439 --> 01:34:49.479
<v Speaker 3>ancient mathematicians theories on number and so really high levels

1248
01:34:50.319 --> 01:34:54.279
<v Speaker 3>specialist dudes debate this problem in Aristotle in relationship to

1249
01:34:54.479 --> 01:35:01.520
<v Speaker 3>number because how do numbers actually only exist in particulars? Yeah, exactly.

1250
01:35:01.760 --> 01:35:05.199
<v Speaker 3>It doesn't make any sense because they don't, because this

1251
01:35:05.359 --> 01:35:15.199
<v Speaker 3>is wrong. How are numbers only in particulars? Are Mandel

1252
01:35:15.199 --> 01:35:17.479
<v Speaker 3>brought sets only in some particular out in the world

1253
01:35:17.520 --> 01:35:20.520
<v Speaker 3>that's retarded? Ninety degrees is not just in your head,

1254
01:35:21.159 --> 01:35:26.319
<v Speaker 3>and it's not just an angle on an object, and

1255
01:35:26.399 --> 01:35:30.319
<v Speaker 3>it's not just a word. There's nothing in your brain

1256
01:35:30.520 --> 01:35:35.720
<v Speaker 3>that cars corresponds to ninety degrees when you're speaking, I'm

1257
01:35:35.720 --> 01:35:39.119
<v Speaker 3>not talking about ninety eight degrees the band No Boy banter.

1258
01:35:39.399 --> 01:35:41.239
<v Speaker 3>It's about ninety degrees on the edge of an object.

1259
01:35:43.399 --> 01:35:45.159
<v Speaker 3>So at this point, if we look at numbers in

1260
01:35:45.159 --> 01:35:47.760
<v Speaker 3>relationship to aerosol, we're back at Plato. And again this

1261
01:35:47.880 --> 01:35:50.600
<v Speaker 3>is a problem because for Aristotle we're just kind of

1262
01:35:50.800 --> 01:35:54.199
<v Speaker 3>locating universals and abstractions in the particulars he thought that

1263
01:35:54.239 --> 01:35:58.800
<v Speaker 3>would solve the issue doesn't. Another reason this doesn't work

1264
01:35:58.840 --> 01:36:03.119
<v Speaker 3>for us is again because of this starting point of

1265
01:36:03.159 --> 01:36:07.199
<v Speaker 3>it being classical foundationalism and ultimately appealing to since experience.

1266
01:36:07.560 --> 01:36:09.039
<v Speaker 3>And that's why I asked this guy, how'd you come

1267
01:36:09.079 --> 01:36:11.960
<v Speaker 3>to the system? Oh, I read Parmenides and Aristotle and

1268
01:36:12.000 --> 01:36:17.319
<v Speaker 3>Confucius or whoever. So he, by his since experience, read

1269
01:36:17.359 --> 01:36:20.119
<v Speaker 3>these books, and then he reasoned to these things about

1270
01:36:20.119 --> 01:36:23.239
<v Speaker 3>all this metaphysical stuff that he thought was self evident.

1271
01:36:24.439 --> 01:36:27.079
<v Speaker 3>None of it's self evident. We've shown that very clearly here.

1272
01:36:28.159 --> 01:36:30.880
<v Speaker 3>And so at this point the system I think that

1273
01:36:30.960 --> 01:36:35.600
<v Speaker 3>he was presenting was just completely dysynthicate, degrading and breaking down.

1274
01:36:36.640 --> 01:36:38.640
<v Speaker 3>And I don't think he was even catching the arguments

1275
01:36:38.640 --> 01:36:43.880
<v Speaker 3>and the force of the arguments. The next problem that

1276
01:36:43.920 --> 01:36:46.399
<v Speaker 3>we could see in Aristotle is ethics. Me and this guy,

1277
01:36:46.479 --> 01:36:48.920
<v Speaker 3>we didn't get to the ethical arm of debate. But

1278
01:36:48.960 --> 01:36:50.840
<v Speaker 3>I would have made the same type of argument if

1279
01:36:50.880 --> 01:36:52.880
<v Speaker 3>he had gone with the golden mean. The golden mean

1280
01:36:52.960 --> 01:36:54.840
<v Speaker 3>can't be a basis for ethics because the golden mean

1281
01:36:54.880 --> 01:36:57.239
<v Speaker 3>assumes that you have a basis to know what is

1282
01:36:57.319 --> 01:37:01.880
<v Speaker 3>in between two extremes, saying you demonea or golden mean

1283
01:37:02.319 --> 01:37:05.840
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't work. How do you know what the middle is?

1284
01:37:05.880 --> 01:37:09.279
<v Speaker 3>If you don't know what the extremes are, obviously come on.

1285
01:37:10.199 --> 01:37:22.359
<v Speaker 3>So it's subjective, it's relativistic. The Arisitilian God is ultimately deistic,

1286
01:37:23.039 --> 01:37:30.239
<v Speaker 3>so he's not an efficient cause the Arisitylian God is unknowable.

1287
01:37:30.600 --> 01:37:32.319
<v Speaker 3>You don't have a relationship with him because he's thought

1288
01:37:32.359 --> 01:37:36.840
<v Speaker 3>thinking itself. He's not related to you. And thus none

1289
01:37:36.880 --> 01:37:39.880
<v Speaker 3>of this works for intelligent design because the God in

1290
01:37:39.960 --> 01:37:44.359
<v Speaker 3>this system is unknowable, deistic, not related to this world,

1291
01:37:45.119 --> 01:37:48.399
<v Speaker 3>and he doesn't actually design this world. How dumb to

1292
01:37:48.479 --> 01:37:55.039
<v Speaker 3>try to call opt this for intelligent design? If by

1293
01:37:55.079 --> 01:37:58.760
<v Speaker 3>intelligent design you mean not the orthodox douction of creation.

1294
01:37:59.079 --> 01:38:04.279
<v Speaker 3>Maybe the one in the many argument we got to.

1295
01:38:04.840 --> 01:38:07.239
<v Speaker 3>I argue that the trinity is the only way to

1296
01:38:07.479 --> 01:38:11.159
<v Speaker 3>balance the one and the many. The trying God solves

1297
01:38:11.199 --> 01:38:13.840
<v Speaker 3>this problem of the one and the many. And he said, well,

1298
01:38:13.880 --> 01:38:16.119
<v Speaker 3>how can something be one and many at once? I said, well,

1299
01:38:16.159 --> 01:38:19.640
<v Speaker 3>have you seen numbers? Numbers are one and many at once,

1300
01:38:20.239 --> 01:38:22.600
<v Speaker 3>and there's nothing about a number that's more one than

1301
01:38:22.640 --> 01:38:24.239
<v Speaker 3>it is many or more many than it is one.

1302
01:38:25.159 --> 01:38:28.199
<v Speaker 3>A number can constitute a unity and a multiplicity at

1303
01:38:28.239 --> 01:38:30.760
<v Speaker 3>the exact same time, in perfect balance. And that's an image,

1304
01:38:32.000 --> 01:38:35.520
<v Speaker 3>an analogy to the trendy. It's not exactly the same

1305
01:38:35.560 --> 01:38:43.439
<v Speaker 3>as the trinity. Nothing is. But it's an analogy. So

1306
01:38:43.760 --> 01:38:50.119
<v Speaker 3>Tilos didn't work. It's a human Oh, that's right. Tilos is,

1307
01:38:50.199 --> 01:38:54.039
<v Speaker 3>by the way, in Aristotle, an analogy on the basis

1308
01:38:54.119 --> 01:38:57.079
<v Speaker 3>of human architects. Right. So if you have artificial objects

1309
01:38:57.119 --> 01:39:00.600
<v Speaker 3>in Aristotol, which would be like if you created a tool, right,

1310
01:39:00.840 --> 01:39:05.159
<v Speaker 3>it has a purpose. And so you've taken matter, you've

1311
01:39:05.279 --> 01:39:07.119
<v Speaker 3>stamped it with the form of a brick, and it

1312
01:39:07.159 --> 01:39:09.039
<v Speaker 3>becomes a tool to build the house, and you build

1313
01:39:09.079 --> 01:39:12.159
<v Speaker 3>the house out of the bricks, and so the brick

1314
01:39:12.239 --> 01:39:16.560
<v Speaker 3>thus has purpose. Okay, But in aristotle system, the world

1315
01:39:16.600 --> 01:39:18.760
<v Speaker 3>as a whole doesn't have that purpose because it's not

1316
01:39:18.920 --> 01:39:21.720
<v Speaker 3>created from the mind of a god who is providential,

1317
01:39:22.119 --> 01:39:26.000
<v Speaker 3>who directly relates to this world. No, he doesn't believe that.

1318
01:39:28.560 --> 01:39:35.319
<v Speaker 3>So Telos does not work on a universal scale. Highlomorphism

1319
01:39:35.439 --> 01:39:39.399
<v Speaker 3>is absolute simplicity applied to objects in the world. It

1320
01:39:39.520 --> 01:39:43.479
<v Speaker 3>thus breaks down. It doesn't work as an epistemic system

1321
01:39:43.600 --> 01:39:52.359
<v Speaker 3>because our epistemology. I got into this with a little

1322
01:39:52.399 --> 01:39:55.079
<v Speaker 3>bit with the classical theist when we reason about objects

1323
01:39:56.680 --> 01:39:58.720
<v Speaker 3>and we try to make sense of things in the

1324
01:39:58.800 --> 01:40:04.199
<v Speaker 3>world in the Ariscitilian scheme and in the platonics are

1325
01:40:04.279 --> 01:40:07.359
<v Speaker 3>in the atomistic scheme to a degree, you have the

1326
01:40:07.479 --> 01:40:12.960
<v Speaker 3>idea that I abstract from the particular objects the phantasm

1327
01:40:13.079 --> 01:40:17.640
<v Speaker 3>in my passive intellect, and then from that I somehow

1328
01:40:17.880 --> 01:40:22.319
<v Speaker 3>know or have access to a universal. Doesn't work because

1329
01:40:22.880 --> 01:40:25.840
<v Speaker 3>no matter how many particulars you add up, you're not

1330
01:40:26.039 --> 01:40:32.760
<v Speaker 3>ever obtaining to universal, because the universals aren't just five, ten,

1331
01:40:32.920 --> 01:40:36.359
<v Speaker 3>twenty particulars added up together. And the empiricists were right

1332
01:40:36.439 --> 01:40:40.039
<v Speaker 3>to critique this because this system starts with empirical data

1333
01:40:40.920 --> 01:40:46.119
<v Speaker 3>and tries to reason up to universals. Not possible on

1334
01:40:46.319 --> 01:40:49.640
<v Speaker 3>this scheme. And you could say, well, yeah, but what

1335
01:40:49.720 --> 01:40:52.039
<v Speaker 3>about in the tomistic scheme, where the universals and the

1336
01:40:52.159 --> 01:40:54.039
<v Speaker 3>forms and the ideas of things are in the essence

1337
01:40:54.079 --> 01:40:57.600
<v Speaker 3>of God. Yeah, exactly, But what you're abstracting isn't the

1338
01:40:57.680 --> 01:40:59.640
<v Speaker 3>essence of God. And in this world you never have

1339
01:40:59.760 --> 01:41:02.479
<v Speaker 3>thats to the essence of God. You only have access

1340
01:41:02.560 --> 01:41:07.199
<v Speaker 3>to created likenesses, created analogies and analogy and or created effects,

1341
01:41:10.840 --> 01:41:13.399
<v Speaker 3>never to the actual essence of God. So it doesn't

1342
01:41:13.479 --> 01:41:16.399
<v Speaker 3>work to ground knowledge in the divine ideas in the

1343
01:41:16.560 --> 01:41:21.479
<v Speaker 3>essence of God. It's self refuting because of absolute don't

1344
01:41:21.479 --> 01:41:33.159
<v Speaker 3>suppose to say, Okay, I think I've hit I think

1345
01:41:33.159 --> 01:41:36.600
<v Speaker 3>I've hit all the problems in Aristotle and how it

1346
01:41:38.199 --> 01:41:49.439
<v Speaker 3>applies to dudes made up pagan system. Okay, So I

1347
01:41:49.520 --> 01:41:51.239
<v Speaker 3>think that's pretty much most of what I wanted to

1348
01:41:51.279 --> 01:41:54.840
<v Speaker 3>get to. There's more areas in Aristotle that we could critique.

1349
01:41:57.039 --> 01:42:02.680
<v Speaker 3>My old notes, I've got problems we already touched on.

1350
01:42:02.800 --> 01:42:04.960
<v Speaker 3>The problems of a bunch of different trees. Don't get

1351
01:42:05.000 --> 01:42:07.880
<v Speaker 3>you in the general form of a tree. Where do

1352
01:42:07.920 --> 01:42:12.119
<v Speaker 3>you ever get the general idea? You don't Heilomorphism is

1353
01:42:13.279 --> 01:42:18.239
<v Speaker 3>absolute simplicity applied to objects. The ethics are not really

1354
01:42:18.319 --> 01:42:22.079
<v Speaker 3>ethics because we don't know what the golden mean actually is.

1355
01:42:22.680 --> 01:42:26.119
<v Speaker 3>It's just assumed, and then we don't I don't care

1356
01:42:26.119 --> 01:42:28.680
<v Speaker 3>about Aristotle's polus. We're not gonna go into that. So

1357
01:42:31.359 --> 01:42:33.239
<v Speaker 3>so these are the problems that really sort of blatant

1358
01:42:33.239 --> 01:42:37.119
<v Speaker 3>problems in Aristotle. And although his system didn't have every

1359
01:42:37.319 --> 01:42:39.680
<v Speaker 3>aspect of Aristotle. It is good and so relevant to

1360
01:42:39.960 --> 01:42:43.720
<v Speaker 3>to critique and point it out. So that's the critique

1361
01:42:43.720 --> 01:42:48.720
<v Speaker 3>of Aristotle. In hour two of this for subscribers, today's analysis,

1362
01:42:48.720 --> 01:42:51.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to continue with a fuller critique of Aristotle

1363
01:42:53.199 --> 01:42:56.159
<v Speaker 3>from my notes that are pretty extensive. And what we're

1364
01:42:56.159 --> 01:42:58.119
<v Speaker 3>gonna do is go back once again and we're gonna

1365
01:42:58.119 --> 01:43:00.000
<v Speaker 3>look at the Presocratics and the Ionians, and we're gonna

1366
01:43:00.119 --> 01:43:03.840
<v Speaker 3>trace this up through Aristotle, and we're gonna talk again

1367
01:43:03.880 --> 01:43:07.840
<v Speaker 3>about how similar this is to the far Eastern conceptions

1368
01:43:07.920 --> 01:43:09.920
<v Speaker 3>of monism and so forth. And I'm going to try

1369
01:43:09.960 --> 01:43:13.399
<v Speaker 3>to make it, you know, as accessible as possible for

1370
01:43:13.520 --> 01:43:16.560
<v Speaker 3>the subscribers, so it's not too ab tuo s. But

1371
01:43:16.680 --> 01:43:18.520
<v Speaker 3>since this is public, I wanted to address all the

1372
01:43:18.600 --> 01:43:23.479
<v Speaker 3>different possible objections that are out there. So our two

1373
01:43:23.600 --> 01:43:32.560
<v Speaker 3>will again be a revisiting for subscribers, a revisiting of Presocratics, Ionians, Promenides,

1374
01:43:33.119 --> 01:43:36.640
<v Speaker 3>and Aristotle and how it can trasts with our worldview.

1375
01:43:39.560 --> 01:43:42.359
<v Speaker 3>So if you want access to that, go to Jay's

1376
01:43:42.359 --> 01:43:45.279
<v Speaker 3>analysis and you can subscribe at the subscription button there

1377
01:43:45.359 --> 01:43:47.920
<v Speaker 3>for the members content. You get access to all the

1378
01:43:48.079 --> 01:43:51.640
<v Speaker 3>great archives and interviews over the years countless talks. Now

1379
01:43:51.760 --> 01:43:54.159
<v Speaker 3>there's a vast archive there of awesome stuff. All the

1380
01:43:54.199 --> 01:43:58.520
<v Speaker 3>globalism book series, Tragi and Hope, the Plato talks, all

1381
01:43:58.560 --> 01:44:02.119
<v Speaker 3>of the Republic, all the Bible talks. I mean, just

1382
01:44:03.720 --> 01:44:08.640
<v Speaker 3>a treasure trove of literal, graduate level stuff in multiple

1383
01:44:08.720 --> 01:44:12.560
<v Speaker 3>subjects for four months, sixty dollars a year. All these

1384
01:44:12.600 --> 01:44:14.840
<v Speaker 3>people bitching about me. Do you understand the gifts that

1385
01:44:14.920 --> 01:44:17.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm giving you here. I'm not bragging about myself. It's

1386
01:44:17.720 --> 01:44:20.680
<v Speaker 3>all a gift from God. But you guys could be

1387
01:44:20.960 --> 01:44:25.000
<v Speaker 3>could be making use of this stuff. I just cover

1388
01:44:25.159 --> 01:44:27.640
<v Speaker 3>these subjects. I covered the books of the big the

1389
01:44:27.720 --> 01:44:34.479
<v Speaker 3>big boys. All right, let's get down here to the

1390
01:44:34.520 --> 01:44:39.800
<v Speaker 3>super chats. And if you're ready for super chat, to

1391
01:44:40.119 --> 01:44:43.600
<v Speaker 3>sens some super chants my super chants. Well, it's just

1392
01:44:43.640 --> 01:44:51.560
<v Speaker 3>super chats. So the gods, even in the in the

1393
01:44:52.520 --> 01:44:57.479
<v Speaker 3>most philosophic forms, these systems of the gods and we

1394
01:44:57.680 --> 01:45:02.279
<v Speaker 3>was vikings. It boils down to these very simple problems

1395
01:45:02.319 --> 01:45:07.359
<v Speaker 3>of monism, of dualism, of dialectical tensions, one of the

1396
01:45:07.439 --> 01:45:11.359
<v Speaker 3>many these same critiques. That's the point here. These same

1397
01:45:11.439 --> 01:45:14.880
<v Speaker 3>criticus are applicable to the Pagans, to the Gnostics, to

1398
01:45:14.960 --> 01:45:18.479
<v Speaker 3>the atheists, to the materialists, to the far Eastern mystics

1399
01:45:20.319 --> 01:45:24.520
<v Speaker 3>for Eastern religions, and to the goofballs in philosophy one

1400
01:45:24.560 --> 01:45:27.319
<v Speaker 3>oh one who think that the matrix simulation theory, it's

1401
01:45:27.399 --> 01:45:31.760
<v Speaker 3>all the same argument Rose, It's all the same nonsense.

1402
01:45:33.600 --> 01:45:37.560
<v Speaker 3>Hesser mentioned a right Ai Howard five bucks. Hesser mentioned

1403
01:45:37.640 --> 01:45:40.000
<v Speaker 3>Carnival the other night. Any analysis on that show in

1404
01:45:40.039 --> 01:45:42.520
<v Speaker 3>the future very gnostics shown. Dee, I've heard about it,

1405
01:45:42.880 --> 01:45:49.000
<v Speaker 3>and I have to get to it. I haven't thought

1406
01:45:49.000 --> 01:45:51.239
<v Speaker 3>about it, though, I'd have to get to that. My

1407
01:45:51.399 --> 01:45:53.479
<v Speaker 3>mind is getting tired, so I'm having a hard time talking.

1408
01:45:55.199 --> 01:45:57.439
<v Speaker 3>And yes, I'm gonna put the debate. Let me just

1409
01:45:57.479 --> 01:46:00.359
<v Speaker 3>put it in there now, since people keep assing minute.

1410
01:46:01.319 --> 01:46:03.439
<v Speaker 3>And part of the reason I did this recap was

1411
01:46:03.479 --> 01:46:08.279
<v Speaker 3>again because the Discord audio kept cutting out after hour

1412
01:46:08.439 --> 01:46:12.760
<v Speaker 3>two when I was making my really nuclear arguments, my

1413
01:46:12.880 --> 01:46:17.760
<v Speaker 3>really based arguments, when it was getting pure fire. Is when,

1414
01:46:17.880 --> 01:46:22.960
<v Speaker 3>of course Discord started messing up. So let me go

1415
01:46:23.079 --> 01:46:31.000
<v Speaker 3>to Daily Prap and let me pull up. It looks

1416
01:46:31.039 --> 01:46:36.000
<v Speaker 3>like it's still there. Somebody said they couldn't access it. No,

1417
01:46:36.159 --> 01:46:44.600
<v Speaker 3>it's still there. So I'm adding that to the I

1418
01:46:44.680 --> 01:46:46.399
<v Speaker 3>think most of it you can hear. I haven't gone

1419
01:46:46.399 --> 01:46:47.960
<v Speaker 3>back and listened to all of it, but people were

1420
01:46:48.039 --> 01:46:51.680
<v Speaker 3>saying that it's pretty rough. You can kind of make

1421
01:46:51.720 --> 01:46:55.720
<v Speaker 3>out now that you know what I'm saying here, and

1422
01:46:55.800 --> 01:46:58.319
<v Speaker 3>now that you've heard this, now you know the what

1423
01:46:58.439 --> 01:47:00.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm getting at in my arguments, and you'll be able

1424
01:47:00.840 --> 01:47:02.199
<v Speaker 3>if you want to go back and listen to the

1425
01:47:02.239 --> 01:47:06.479
<v Speaker 3>debate with understanding what I was trying to say, even

1426
01:47:06.520 --> 01:47:08.520
<v Speaker 3>though every time I would talk it would get cut off.

1427
01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:13.640
<v Speaker 3>Now you could you could probably decipher through this Rosetta

1428
01:47:13.720 --> 01:47:17.880
<v Speaker 3>stone what the heck I was trying to argue. So

1429
01:47:19.560 --> 01:47:21.159
<v Speaker 3>I put it in there, and then I'll put the debate.

1430
01:47:21.239 --> 01:47:23.159
<v Speaker 3>Here's the debate in the chat if you want it

1431
01:47:23.239 --> 01:47:36.600
<v Speaker 3>that way. Anthony Cavallo ten dollars gibbs for my Warrior

1432
01:47:36.680 --> 01:47:39.880
<v Speaker 3>King and she Yat. Thank you, Anthony. We appreciate that.

1433
01:47:41.760 --> 01:47:44.600
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I'll put I'll put I'll check out Carnival

1434
01:47:44.760 --> 01:47:46.880
<v Speaker 3>by the way, AI, I end to put that on

1435
01:47:46.960 --> 01:47:49.439
<v Speaker 3>the list, and I'll check that out see if it's

1436
01:47:49.520 --> 01:47:53.039
<v Speaker 3>worthy of analysis down the road or something. John sand

1437
01:47:53.119 --> 01:48:02.079
<v Speaker 3>for ten bucks, Vulcan Prayer, Penguin, tell Lescope, Heart Punch,

1438
01:48:04.039 --> 01:48:09.840
<v Speaker 3>Hang ten okay, Wizard five New Zealand's five in Zi's

1439
01:48:10.479 --> 01:48:12.199
<v Speaker 3>you have an excellent taste in wigs well, thank you,

1440
01:48:12.399 --> 01:48:17.159
<v Speaker 3>of course I do. What would you expect, Wizard in

1441
01:48:17.319 --> 01:48:20.199
<v Speaker 3>Zis you have excellent taste and wigs well, thank you

1442
01:48:20.319 --> 01:48:34.840
<v Speaker 3>for the extra in zis as a burner. By the way, this,

1443
01:48:35.079 --> 01:48:36.760
<v Speaker 3>do you see how much of this is applicable to

1444
01:48:37.199 --> 01:48:46.079
<v Speaker 3>tumism of what we talked about tonight spec. Seven eighty

1445
01:48:46.239 --> 01:48:50.239
<v Speaker 3>two four nine, watching from sixteen minutes behind, can you

1446
01:48:50.319 --> 01:48:53.960
<v Speaker 3>expand on how monism makes change illusory? You may have

1447
01:48:54.000 --> 01:48:57.000
<v Speaker 3>already covered it, Yeah, Because again I think if you're consistent,

1448
01:48:57.399 --> 01:49:02.359
<v Speaker 3>if everything is truly one, if the real reality that

1449
01:49:02.560 --> 01:49:08.279
<v Speaker 3>exists is one, right, this is Plato, many other religions

1450
01:49:08.319 --> 01:49:15.039
<v Speaker 3>and philosophies, then when we look at this world that's

1451
01:49:15.079 --> 01:49:18.600
<v Speaker 3>not just one, that's many things, and there's change, the

1452
01:49:18.720 --> 01:49:22.600
<v Speaker 3>tendency is to say or to try to explain change

1453
01:49:22.680 --> 01:49:26.920
<v Speaker 3>and distinction as illusory. It starts by saying, well, if

1454
01:49:27.039 --> 01:49:29.680
<v Speaker 3>everything is ultimately one, and then the problems that we have.

1455
01:49:30.439 --> 01:49:36.600
<v Speaker 3>Man's problem is distinction is being many, is interacting with

1456
01:49:36.720 --> 01:49:39.479
<v Speaker 3>other men. We all need to realize we're all one man.

1457
01:49:42.800 --> 01:49:46.279
<v Speaker 3>So the assumption being that the problem of the world

1458
01:49:46.359 --> 01:49:50.520
<v Speaker 3>of mankind is metaphysical, and that problem is that being

1459
01:49:51.000 --> 01:49:55.880
<v Speaker 3>in a realm of particularity, of distinctions, of differences is

1460
01:49:55.960 --> 01:50:01.479
<v Speaker 3>a lesser state of being somehow from this primitive, primordial,

1461
01:50:02.000 --> 01:50:04.920
<v Speaker 3>pre eminent one, this pre eminent Unity, this Great Monad,

1462
01:50:05.640 --> 01:50:10.720
<v Speaker 3>this realm is typically seen then as lesser uh, a

1463
01:50:10.880 --> 01:50:15.039
<v Speaker 3>prison place, a creation of an evil demiurge blah blah

1464
01:50:15.039 --> 01:50:22.680
<v Speaker 3>blah blah blah, a simulation, a matrix, dude, whoa. And

1465
01:50:22.800 --> 01:50:28.399
<v Speaker 3>so therefore, typically, if that's the case, then what is

1466
01:50:28.479 --> 01:50:32.000
<v Speaker 3>this world. Well, it's like a dream state. It's like

1467
01:50:32.039 --> 01:50:36.000
<v Speaker 3>an illusion. And if it's a dream state illusion, then

1468
01:50:36.039 --> 01:50:38.359
<v Speaker 3>you gotta wake up. You gotta get woke from Bra,

1469
01:50:39.119 --> 01:50:42.000
<v Speaker 3>get woke from this dream state.

1470
01:50:42.159 --> 01:50:42.279
<v Speaker 1>Bra.

1471
01:50:43.079 --> 01:50:47.279
<v Speaker 3>If you gotta get woke from the matrix, then the

1472
01:50:47.359 --> 01:50:52.640
<v Speaker 3>matrix isn't real, or at least not the really real,

1473
01:50:53.840 --> 01:50:54.800
<v Speaker 3>like the perfect Monad.

1474
01:50:55.039 --> 01:50:55.159
<v Speaker 1>Right.

1475
01:50:58.520 --> 01:51:02.600
<v Speaker 3>This underpins alchemy and her meticism. This underpins bappha met

1476
01:51:04.119 --> 01:51:08.520
<v Speaker 3>because the original Great Monad, the Great Unity, is genderless

1477
01:51:08.880 --> 01:51:13.159
<v Speaker 3>and sexless. I'm not kidding. The occultists believe that, and

1478
01:51:13.279 --> 01:51:15.439
<v Speaker 3>so they actually, many of them actually believed that the

1479
01:51:17.359 --> 01:51:21.479
<v Speaker 3>erasing of the genders is now chemical working. That's why

1480
01:51:21.520 --> 01:51:28.399
<v Speaker 3>the Bapphamet symbol has both male and female organs. It's

1481
01:51:28.439 --> 01:51:34.439
<v Speaker 3>both and and neither. So the great primordial unity was

1482
01:51:34.520 --> 01:51:39.520
<v Speaker 3>not male or female. Again, contrasted with Genesis. And guess what,

1483
01:51:40.239 --> 01:51:44.399
<v Speaker 3>even some of the Eastern fathers got that wrong. Gregory

1484
01:51:44.439 --> 01:51:49.520
<v Speaker 3>of Nissa got that wrong. And Saint Maximus corrects Saint

1485
01:51:49.560 --> 01:51:53.439
<v Speaker 3>Gregory Nissa on that point. So even Saint Gregor Nissa,

1486
01:51:53.520 --> 01:51:56.640
<v Speaker 3>for all of his amazing insights and argumentation, he didn't

1487
01:51:56.640 --> 01:51:58.800
<v Speaker 3>get everything right. That's why we don't go by one

1488
01:51:58.880 --> 01:52:05.079
<v Speaker 3>saint right. He got it wrong about Genesis. He thought

1489
01:52:05.159 --> 01:52:08.960
<v Speaker 3>the fall resulted in the distinctions between male and female,

1490
01:52:09.439 --> 01:52:12.000
<v Speaker 3>but that's not what Genesis says. So he was too

1491
01:52:12.079 --> 01:52:14.159
<v Speaker 3>influenced by origin. He wasn't a heretic like Origin, but

1492
01:52:14.199 --> 01:52:17.239
<v Speaker 3>he was influenced by origin. But it doesn't matter because

1493
01:52:17.279 --> 01:52:21.119
<v Speaker 3>we don't accept the opinion of every single church father.

1494
01:52:21.439 --> 01:52:24.560
<v Speaker 3>Nobody does. There's no person on the there's no religion

1495
01:52:24.680 --> 01:52:27.520
<v Speaker 3>or or church or system and the face of the

1496
01:52:27.560 --> 01:52:30.560
<v Speaker 3>planet that actually does that. Son't, So it's stupid when

1497
01:52:30.560 --> 01:52:32.479
<v Speaker 3>people bring that up. Well, well, one I found a

1498
01:52:32.560 --> 01:52:34.399
<v Speaker 3>church father who teaches this, so I could still hold

1499
01:52:34.399 --> 01:52:36.479
<v Speaker 3>that view. No you can't. It doesn't work like that.

1500
01:52:37.239 --> 01:52:41.279
<v Speaker 3>So that's how change ultimately becomes illusory. And it's actually

1501
01:52:41.359 --> 01:52:47.600
<v Speaker 3>just a nonsensical statement to say that time is eternal,

1502
01:52:48.800 --> 01:52:51.119
<v Speaker 3>that the world is eternal. That doesn't make any sense

1503
01:52:54.039 --> 01:52:57.520
<v Speaker 3>because if it had no beginning, middle, or end, then again,

1504
01:52:58.279 --> 01:53:02.560
<v Speaker 3>the change that we're experiencing is actually not real. It's

1505
01:53:02.600 --> 01:53:09.239
<v Speaker 3>not it's illusory because eternality is in that view static.

1506
01:53:10.039 --> 01:53:14.359
<v Speaker 3>If eternality is static and the one is eternal and

1507
01:53:14.479 --> 01:53:17.359
<v Speaker 3>we're in the realm of change in flux, always moving,

1508
01:53:18.760 --> 01:53:20.880
<v Speaker 3>then change in flux and always moving are not real

1509
01:53:22.720 --> 01:53:28.119
<v Speaker 3>because eternality in the monad is what's real. So this

1510
01:53:28.279 --> 01:53:30.680
<v Speaker 3>is why the far Eastern religions are more consistent and

1511
01:53:30.760 --> 01:53:33.039
<v Speaker 3>they say, yeah, exactly, that's why you got to wake

1512
01:53:33.199 --> 01:53:38.239
<v Speaker 3>up from this deceptive dream realm, which is an illusion,

1513
01:53:39.640 --> 01:53:45.000
<v Speaker 3>and get back to ultimate absolute, get back to thusness,

1514
01:53:45.399 --> 01:53:49.159
<v Speaker 3>get back to the great and personal sea of being

1515
01:53:49.399 --> 01:53:57.039
<v Speaker 3>or whatever. Immerse yourself into the great ocean of non

1516
01:53:57.159 --> 01:54:04.800
<v Speaker 3>being in the thusness. Orthro Nat twenty dollars, thank you worthnet. Yes, no,

1517
01:54:04.880 --> 01:54:06.720
<v Speaker 3>it's fine. I understand that you weren't trying to be

1518
01:54:07.439 --> 01:54:10.680
<v Speaker 3>gossipy and no, I'm not in trouble with anybody. I

1519
01:54:10.840 --> 01:54:14.079
<v Speaker 3>tend a church in good standing and it is canonical,

1520
01:54:14.279 --> 01:54:16.399
<v Speaker 3>and I'm not gonna say anything more than that. And

1521
01:54:16.560 --> 01:54:19.359
<v Speaker 3>thank you for the fan art. Appreciate that much much appreciated,

1522
01:54:20.319 --> 01:54:25.279
<v Speaker 3>Mario callib Calobic. Five dollars. My grandparents were by Kings.

1523
01:54:25.359 --> 01:54:29.279
<v Speaker 3>You are being offensive, Okay, well you could be offended, bra.

1524
01:54:29.680 --> 01:54:33.439
<v Speaker 3>I know you're joking, but thank you for that, Mario. Marco.

1525
01:54:35.119 --> 01:54:37.319
<v Speaker 3>Jethro told fifteen dollars. Well, I hope you guys are

1526
01:54:37.399 --> 01:54:41.159
<v Speaker 3>benefiting from that. Those are some fat super chats, some

1527
01:54:41.319 --> 01:54:44.239
<v Speaker 3>super fats P A A T. Misty Earn's one dollar,

1528
01:54:44.319 --> 01:54:47.520
<v Speaker 3>thank you, Missy, white Top two bucks, Thank you, white Top.

1529
01:54:48.560 --> 01:54:51.600
<v Speaker 3>Lawrence ballinag two bucks. Much appreciated, Lawrence. We always love

1530
01:54:51.680 --> 01:54:55.640
<v Speaker 3>seeing our usual friends, Jethro and Misty and white Top

1531
01:54:55.720 --> 01:55:01.960
<v Speaker 3>and Lawrence n c rid Jay, you have big brained cracker.

1532
01:55:04.880 --> 01:55:10.239
<v Speaker 3>Drew McMahon, thank you, and see Drew McMahon, the father

1533
01:55:10.359 --> 01:55:13.359
<v Speaker 3>of Vince McMahon. Seven dollars. I'm a fan of you

1534
01:55:13.520 --> 01:55:17.119
<v Speaker 3>and mister Pageot. Why did you too, not, Jill? He

1535
01:55:17.199 --> 01:55:22.119
<v Speaker 3>seems to have wanted to. He's I don't think he

1536
01:55:22.239 --> 01:55:24.680
<v Speaker 3>wants a dialogue anymore. He at one time he was

1537
01:55:24.760 --> 01:55:28.800
<v Speaker 3>open to that, but ultimately I think we just decided

1538
01:55:28.840 --> 01:55:32.840
<v Speaker 3>that the approaches are too different. And I think I

1539
01:55:32.960 --> 01:55:36.239
<v Speaker 3>critiqued too many of the people that he regards very highly.

1540
01:55:37.079 --> 01:55:40.920
<v Speaker 3>Obviously I wasn't intentionally critiquing them to get mad, to

1541
01:55:40.960 --> 01:55:42.960
<v Speaker 3>get him mad or anything like that. It was just, uh,

1542
01:55:43.600 --> 01:55:46.840
<v Speaker 3>I critique the people that he regards highly, and that

1543
01:55:47.119 --> 01:55:49.039
<v Speaker 3>caused a problem. And then I think from there we

1544
01:55:49.199 --> 01:55:53.840
<v Speaker 3>just decided that we have different approaches to things. So yeah,

1545
01:55:54.079 --> 01:55:56.159
<v Speaker 3>that just kind of fell through the cracks. So I

1546
01:55:56.239 --> 01:55:58.560
<v Speaker 3>don't think there's going to be I mean, I would.

1547
01:55:58.640 --> 01:56:00.520
<v Speaker 3>I'm open to talking to people, but I don't think

1548
01:56:00.560 --> 01:56:02.760
<v Speaker 3>he's interested in having a chat with me. And I'm

1549
01:56:02.800 --> 01:56:05.039
<v Speaker 3>not butt hurt. That's fine. I don't have any any

1550
01:56:05.920 --> 01:56:10.079
<v Speaker 3>harsh feelings or anything like that towards him. So that's

1551
01:56:10.119 --> 01:56:15.279
<v Speaker 3>what's up. Gabriel. Are five dollars our thoughts. Logi pre

1552
01:56:15.399 --> 01:56:18.119
<v Speaker 3>existing patterns in the mind of God. Well, if you

1553
01:56:18.199 --> 01:56:20.760
<v Speaker 3>read the essay by Father Fluorowski, which is really good,

1554
01:56:21.079 --> 01:56:24.920
<v Speaker 3>the logi have a an uncreated and a created aspect

1555
01:56:25.000 --> 01:56:28.439
<v Speaker 3>to them. So the logi that are in that are

1556
01:56:28.479 --> 01:56:30.880
<v Speaker 3>all one the logos. If you read Ambiguum seven by

1557
01:56:30.920 --> 01:56:34.000
<v Speaker 3>Saint Maximus, he goes into depth about this, which is

1558
01:56:34.039 --> 01:56:36.199
<v Speaker 3>not very long. I think it's about eight ten pages.

1559
01:56:36.319 --> 01:56:41.039
<v Speaker 3>It's a great chapter Ambiguum seven. So there's a created

1560
01:56:41.079 --> 01:56:44.159
<v Speaker 3>and uncreated aspect to them, and they are thought wills

1561
01:56:44.239 --> 01:56:47.000
<v Speaker 3>of God, they're not the essence of God. And Father

1562
01:56:47.039 --> 01:56:50.479
<v Speaker 3>Fluorofsky in his essay Creation and Creature Hood is what

1563
01:56:50.640 --> 01:56:53.479
<v Speaker 3>you must read. So read Ambiguum seven of Saint Maximus

1564
01:56:53.520 --> 01:56:57.760
<v Speaker 3>and then read Father Fluorowski's Creation and Creature Hood. That's

1565
01:56:57.840 --> 01:57:00.279
<v Speaker 3>one of the best treatments of the low boy the

1566
01:57:00.319 --> 01:57:03.640
<v Speaker 3>logi I've ever seen, and it actually solved a lot

1567
01:57:03.640 --> 01:57:06.840
<v Speaker 3>of problems I had understanding it too. And Tho's other

1568
01:57:07.039 --> 01:57:10.560
<v Speaker 3>guys torst Off, Torstein, Talofsun, these guys have written a

1569
01:57:10.640 --> 01:57:18.399
<v Speaker 3>lot really fat, lengthy books on logos logi. So they

1570
01:57:18.439 --> 01:57:21.439
<v Speaker 3>are pre existing patterns in the mind of God. And

1571
01:57:22.239 --> 01:57:24.600
<v Speaker 3>but what's in our minds is not exactly the same

1572
01:57:24.680 --> 01:57:27.600
<v Speaker 3>as that, because our thoughts are created, so we have

1573
01:57:27.680 --> 01:57:31.479
<v Speaker 3>a created reasoning, we have a created energy. The noetic

1574
01:57:31.640 --> 01:57:34.239
<v Speaker 3>energy in our mind is created, but it is tapping

1575
01:57:34.319 --> 01:57:38.319
<v Speaker 3>into and it is reflecting something that's an uncreated energy.

1576
01:57:38.439 --> 01:57:40.640
<v Speaker 3>And so that's why for us there are analogia. There

1577
01:57:40.680 --> 01:57:44.520
<v Speaker 3>are analogies, but the analogies, the analogia, contrasted to the

1578
01:57:44.600 --> 01:57:47.760
<v Speaker 3>tomiss to the Roman Catholics, is not the essence of God.

1579
01:57:48.119 --> 01:57:50.920
<v Speaker 3>It's the uncreated energies of God. And so Saint Maximus

1580
01:57:51.239 --> 01:57:54.520
<v Speaker 3>and Father Florarovsky and any of the Orthodox writers ever

1581
01:57:54.520 --> 01:57:57.039
<v Speaker 3>who've written on this will make great pains to point

1582
01:57:57.079 --> 01:58:03.159
<v Speaker 3>out that the logoi, the logi are uncreated energies, and

1583
01:58:03.199 --> 01:58:05.800
<v Speaker 3>they're not the essence of God. They're not predeterminations that

1584
01:58:05.880 --> 01:58:09.520
<v Speaker 3>God had to create. They are thought wills of God

1585
01:58:11.000 --> 01:58:14.640
<v Speaker 3>and archetypes and patterns that He willed to do. So

1586
01:58:14.680 --> 01:58:16.279
<v Speaker 3>they're not the same as the essence of God, because

1587
01:58:16.279 --> 01:58:18.640
<v Speaker 3>if they're the same as the essence of God, then

1588
01:58:18.680 --> 01:58:22.640
<v Speaker 3>they must have been created and they are coterminous and eternal,

1589
01:58:24.479 --> 01:58:30.000
<v Speaker 3>which they are not. Alright, let's see, Okay, I don't

1590
01:58:30.000 --> 01:58:33.880
<v Speaker 3>see any more super chats, anymore questions. I'm only gonna

1591
01:58:33.880 --> 01:58:36.119
<v Speaker 3>read super chats because if I read people's questions from

1592
01:58:36.119 --> 01:58:39.079
<v Speaker 3>the chats, it's not fair to the people who super chatted.

1593
01:58:46.199 --> 01:58:54.119
<v Speaker 3>Some pretty gross questions in the gross Marl Kark's five

1594
01:58:54.199 --> 01:58:59.479
<v Speaker 3>dollars an Orthodox church recommendation in Nashville. I don't think

1595
01:58:59.520 --> 01:59:02.640
<v Speaker 3>there's a row Core church. There's one in Tennessee somewhere,

1596
01:59:03.760 --> 01:59:06.720
<v Speaker 3>but it's a good drive from Nashville. I would not

1597
01:59:06.840 --> 01:59:11.600
<v Speaker 3>go to the Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Nashville because I

1598
01:59:11.720 --> 01:59:14.039
<v Speaker 3>asked if they accepted Freemasonry and they said they do,

1599
01:59:14.399 --> 01:59:17.680
<v Speaker 3>so I would not go there, but I would check out.

1600
01:59:17.720 --> 01:59:21.720
<v Speaker 3>You could check out the Antiochian Church in Franklin. Probably

1601
01:59:21.800 --> 01:59:26.640
<v Speaker 3>what would be your best bet The Antiochian Church in Franklin, Tennessee,

1602
01:59:27.279 --> 01:59:31.119
<v Speaker 3>which is right by Nashville. Franklin is right outside Nasville.

1603
01:59:31.239 --> 01:59:35.560
<v Speaker 3>So all right, thank you for that question. There are

1604
01:59:35.600 --> 01:59:41.319
<v Speaker 3>Marl Kirks, and thank you guys again. So the debate

1605
01:59:41.479 --> 01:59:45.600
<v Speaker 3>is here in the show description. Now good luck. If

1606
01:59:45.640 --> 01:59:49.000
<v Speaker 3>you want to try to decipher, you're welcome to The

1607
01:59:49.079 --> 01:59:50.960
<v Speaker 3>first two hours I think are fine. So like, if

1608
01:59:51.000 --> 01:59:52.800
<v Speaker 3>you listen to the first two hours of the exchange,

1609
01:59:53.640 --> 01:59:56.279
<v Speaker 3>my audio is good. It's just that third hour where

1610
01:59:56.319 --> 02:00:00.159
<v Speaker 3>it really kind of starts get getting choppy. But with

1611
02:00:00.439 --> 02:00:02.479
<v Speaker 3>the Rosetta stone that I just gave you in this talk,

1612
02:00:02.600 --> 02:00:07.439
<v Speaker 3>you should be able to decode the argument I'm making

1613
02:00:07.520 --> 02:00:10.000
<v Speaker 3>and I think you'll see that it's a pretty strong argument.

1614
02:00:11.119 --> 02:00:13.600
<v Speaker 3>All right, thank you guys, God Bless. If you want

1615
02:00:13.640 --> 02:00:15.760
<v Speaker 3>to hear more of this talk, I'm going to give

1616
02:00:15.760 --> 02:00:17.880
<v Speaker 3>you a more in depth analysis of the presocratics in

1617
02:00:17.920 --> 02:00:22.000
<v Speaker 3>Aristotle and monism and dualism in the hour two chat

1618
02:00:22.119 --> 02:00:25.800
<v Speaker 3>this week for subscribers. And yes, we will do more

1619
02:00:25.960 --> 02:00:28.439
<v Speaker 3>of Julian Huxley. It's just that I got really bogged

1620
02:00:28.479 --> 02:00:32.600
<v Speaker 3>down in the Julian Huxley is boring writing, man, It's boring, boring,

1621
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<v Speaker 3>boring globalism book. So I had to take a break

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<v Speaker 3>this week and we had these debates, so I thought

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<v Speaker 3>revisiting Aristotle would be would be fun, more relevant. But yes,

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<v Speaker 3>next week next the next talk after this will we

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<v Speaker 3>will go back to the rest of Julian Huxley in

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<v Speaker 3>the next part of that book will be public, and

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<v Speaker 3>then we'll do some more Jillian for the subscribers next week.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you guys for listening. God Bless, have a good night.