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Speaker 1: U h as I look through your village, high plunder

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and pillage, taking all the booty for my pagan trove.

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Speaker 2: Ah wow, lobbers off the bloody lobbying knights, A major

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wizard and a witch made lobbing knights, lombers off the

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round table.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna sing a whole song, but I can't

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use them. Shot up charge that work.

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Speaker 4: LARPing knights, lords of the round Table, LARPing knights, pagans

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made of him metal LARPing knights, k n I g

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t h S not n I g t h s

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LARPing knights, Pagans of the round cha or Swords from oblivion,

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Swords of magical powers that glow, Swords that strike your soul.

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Speaker 1: Alright, the song is right.

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Speaker 3: I do have an idea metal, You're gonna take all

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the pages. I want to sing a song if I

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can get it right. Man, is it still playing? I

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can't tell anyway. Welcome LARPers of the round t p

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bu hair metal knights, a wizard of Maige and a

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winch mage to LARPing knights. Let's take down some paganism dot.

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It would be really funny, but I can't figure out

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how to listen to the song as I say, all right,

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let me say if I can play the song at

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the same time, but that it won't be funny because

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I don't have them dumb wig on. Let's see, let

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me play the metal song.

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Speaker 1: Alright.

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Speaker 3: Pause.

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Speaker 5: That LARPing nights.

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Speaker 4: Him out alone.

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Speaker 3: The round table LARPing nights a a wire wizard and

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a witch Maige too. I just made up a new character,

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a Wench made. She's a fagan medieval.

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Speaker 5: Thought, the witch mage who gonna steal on me?

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Speaker 6: Wench maides for meself. Bring it on, Christian.

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Speaker 7: Cook Christian cooks cowering and fear from the swords, Christian

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cooks full of temptation, Christian.

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Speaker 1: Cooks, Christian feel the edge of my plead. I run

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through your village and I pillage poor Christian cook. You

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feel like Donald Duck as I slice through your bones.

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I eat your flesh cannibalism on an altar of stones yaw.

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Speaker 3: That was a pretty good rhyme. I was some good

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freestyle right there, Wizard, warrior and woodsmage.

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Speaker 1: As we pillage through your village, give me more hit points.

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Merrow gives me hit points. Dropping reiselts fair law, dude,

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did you ever notice a sword is an inverted cross?

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That is so hair metal.

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Speaker 5: Pagan wizards and warriors gather around my staff.

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Speaker 3: Uh, I wanna get flagged anyway.

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Speaker 6: Welcome, Gay of Thrones, the Gay of Thrones, young liege,

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then over young and learn the Pagan ways.

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Speaker 3: Uh anyway, welcome. No, I'm not gonna clean my countertop.

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Clean your mouth out, you wash your mouth out. You

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heard techno, It's not techno. It's a fart song. I

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was gonna use it in one of the dumb videos.

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See see damn son. We'll pack rise up all right?

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That wig grows my nose crazy. What are we doing?

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We're doing Aristotle. We're gonna talk about this debate as

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we fool around. Super chats are welcome. We're gonna cover

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Aristotle in some pretty good depth here, and the pagan

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challenge from our opponent last night. And I'm really sorry.

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Speaker 2: That our.

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Speaker 3: Discord connection was so shitty last night. We're not ready yet.

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We're just gonna We're gonna let people roll in because

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I'm a little early. I know, I'm always late. Today,

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I'm a little early. Pop lock and bang it pop,

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lock inhead bang It Pop, lock inhead Bang it pop,

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lockinghead bang it.

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Speaker 1: Gother around, got around my stiff sword, young Liege, For

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tonight we raid the Christian village in honor of four

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time and God of all made up God's fourteen, young

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Leege Benova, I have manly things to teach you of

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the ancient ways.

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Speaker 4: Wizards and lawyers, wenches, mages and wench mates to wizards

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and lawyers.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I'm feeling the vibe. Now I'm getting it. I'm

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getting rhythm. Wizards and warriors, titties and wench mages to.

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Speaker 1: Wizards of warriors, titties and wench mage titties and wench

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mage titties and wench maids, wizzardsand warriors, teaching all the

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young lieges all of the mysteries Rendova and run the mysteries.

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Speaker 3: Ghouls and goblins one hundred and six. Come on, now,

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where is their buddy.

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Speaker 8: Let's get this, Let's get this party started, young lees. Dude,

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that's a great rapper name.

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Speaker 1: Winch made.

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Speaker 3: All right, there we go, Wizards and knes and she yachts.

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Speaker 8: Don't believe in thum. Boy's got a short, but it's

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gonna take you to school. Call me olden one Kenobi

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the Steve Brewle of Thule, feeding all my pagans gruel

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while all them christ cuts drew, Ain't it cool?

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Speaker 3: Woa tan.

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Speaker 9: Whoa tan? Oh damn oh damn mhm h bog Lord

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Dave living in a cave. Charles Martel.

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Speaker 8: Pagan as Hell, Franco Marrabingian Heathen Core, Holy Vehemists.

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Speaker 3: H went rhymes with barg whoa tan damn.

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Speaker 10: A sigh true or peek at you a sad true

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or a peek at you wolden damn son, wold damn son. H.

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All right, we're almost.

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Speaker 3: There, got a couple more minutes before it actually starts.

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Y'all want to hear that metal song again? Okay, everybody

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likes this metal song.

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Speaker 4: Okay, h.

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Speaker 1: Free, ain't nothing but a hole where my demons at?

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Speaker 3: What my demons at?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, bend over, Christian cook, I have something to teach

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you there, h.

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Speaker 3: H h.

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Speaker 1: Christian you taste like soy?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, all right, that's enough of that nus, all right,

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that's just some royalty free Viking pagan medal. Hendrick's gonna

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come after me after this. He's gonna try to kill me.

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Gotta there's gonna be a fat law from Hendrick and

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ah ah an army, A tribe of the whole tribe

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is gonna come after me, come cut my head off

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with a with an axe. Would They ain't even gonna

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ask a question, just gonna ax my head. Let's see,

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thank you, super chats rolling in. We're gonna get started

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if you if you missed the first ten minutes of

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complete nonsense. I really should have put that into more

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of a planned musical presentation because it could have been

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pretty funny. It's okay, all right, let's talk about last night.

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It's really lengthy debate. It was good. I wish that

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the sound had been.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: The sound was fine. It was that the Internet was

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glitching in and out, so we didn't really have a

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presentation that makes a whole lot of sense. After the

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second hour mark, after hour two is when it really

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starts going downhill. You can kind of make out the

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majority of the arguments. I was asking people today what

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they thought, and they felt like it was you know,

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I still came out on top. I don't think there's

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any doubt about that. But whether or not you can

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really make out the arguments I'm making because every time

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I set a sentence the last part of the sentence

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was cut off because Discord was acting weird. So any

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debate that I do is posted at the website. It's

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posted on all my social media. So if you follow

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my website or any of the social media as you

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will see last night's debate posted. So yes, I'll add

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it to the description. Unless Joe the Boomer has made

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the debate behind a paywall, I don't know if he's

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done that or not.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: So, but because a lot of people couldn't even hear

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the debate, it's why we're doing this. So and hopefully

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this won't take too long because I'm not going to

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rehash the entire thing. It was so kind of arduous

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and a lot of circular stuff and a lot of

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rehashing the same argument multiple times over. It was it was,

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It was worth it, but it was very draining. So

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if we think about the Aristotelian perspective we want, and

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he was roughly you know, Aristotelian. Yeah, the audio on

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Discord was pathetic, dude. I mean, from now on, we'll

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have to do this on my channel because I'm not

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gonna waste three hour debate with a bunch of audio nonsense,

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and then if he wants to have it on his channel,

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he can put it up. Yeah, I cut out every

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five seconds after two hours, it was it was pitiful,

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all right. So what was what we're gonna see in

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this is the similarity between the pagan conception the Aristotelian conception.

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And ironically, when I listened to the previous discussions that

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Tweetefon had had on that Daily Brat, they had discussed

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all of the similarities between Aristotle and the Tonus that

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we're on there, And Yeah, that's kind of the thrust

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of the argument I've been making for a long time,

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isn't it. So what I did was I kind of

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just listed all of these ideas, and I only got

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to about half of them in the debate because it

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ended up being so wordy in circular. But what we

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want to keep in mind is there some basic principles

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that are going to be true in most of the

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Pagan the most of the philosophic and most of the

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Far Eastern worldviews. Now I believe that this is still

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true for Islam and even arguably Judaism, but we're going

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to set aside the monotheistic views for the time being,

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and we want to focus on again the Pagan conceptions,

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the Platonic, Neoplatonic, Aristotilian, the Greek conceptions, and the Far

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Eastern conceptions, because basically they're all monistic, and I think

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when you have a system that's monistic, you're gonna be

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in the same dilemmas. And this is why we can

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use arguments like critiquing absolute deviind simplicity, yes, and synergy distinction.

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Those arguments are still applicable to these other religions as well.

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Now that's a little more abtuse, perhaps, and there are

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simpler ways to critique those worldviews as well. Man, it's

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goning hot up in here, dancing and playing metal and

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both demons or something. They turn the air condition and

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I'll be right back. And so yeah, the furry demons

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were the furry demons that run Discord Ward messing with

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my audio chat Alison. I got his my notes on

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his worldview two. Okay, So basically, yeah, and this is

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gonna be a half and half talk. Now, there is

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an old talk that I did for subscribers, which is

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a pretty lengthy discussion of Aristotle. We'll be touching on

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some of that material, but the majority of this material

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is new and it's specific to this guy in the

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worldview that he presented because it's kind of piecemeal, very

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similar to Boggle or Dave and his approach. And you know,

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most of the people that are in these perspectives, that's

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what's going on. It's a piecemeal thing that they're kind

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of just putting together. Now, they don't see that as problematic,

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but I think it is pretty evident that the root

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of all this, as we'll see connected to the position

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of monism, is that these positions end up still still relativistic.

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That's the pattern that we tend to see in these

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pagan guys again, over and over and over, the positions

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become cafeteri stall subjective things that some guys just kind

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of piecing together. And ironically, again, if we set a

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sight of Satru and the different pagan movements, if we

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think about other religious movements in our last century, when

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we think about all the people, for example, that studied

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under Crowley, what did they do, not all of them,

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but many of them, Well, they went out and started

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their own religion. Right, So what did Gerald Gardner do?

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He creates Wika and he creates it as a blend

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of Druidism and all this jibber jaba that he learned

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from Crowley and all this kind of stuff. Other guys,

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oh Ron Hubbard, he goes through the ranks of the

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Crowley school, goes out starts his own cult. A lot

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of these guys have this pattern. Now, I'm not saying

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that all the pagan guys are the equivalent of Joe Gardner, Croleier,

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l Roon Hubbard. I'm just making the association, the connection

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of the fact that these are people who just kind

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of try to piece it together. And he says, well, yeah,

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I'm a reconstructionist. In other words, I'm reconstructing what the

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ancient rights must be. And what we tend to see

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is that this is a fool's enterprise. I remember when

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I was looking into Orthodoxy initially, and I was really

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trying to grapple with all the criticisms of neoplatonism. This

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is neoplatonism, you're neoplatonic. And what about the similarities between

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Augustine's doctrine of the philioque and Plotinus's discussion of the

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Diad and the triad, and how the third principle between

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the two is love.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: And yes, Augustin absolutely got that from from Platonis. It's

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in the Eneids. I think it's in ned five off

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the top of my head. Now, initially this is kind

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of applausible. You start to think, well, yeah, there's a

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lot of similarities there, right, and it's kind of it's

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it's beyond the zeitgeist tier of stuff, but it's it's

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in that vein of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: So you're a little more it's more academic than the

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basic bitche zeitgeist crap, zeitgeist crap. And so you're wondering,

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how do we distinguish neoplatonism from what Dionysius talks about

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in the Divine Names? How do we distinguish neoplatonism from

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the Trinity in the way that the Cappadocians formulate it,

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et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: And what you eventually come to realize if you go

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down I think hopefully the right path, the path that

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I think is right, is that there's not really a

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neoplatonic system. Okay, this is an assumption that's often made

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aid on the part of scholars. But then when you

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realize that at the end of the nineteenth century scholars

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we're kind of arguing this Christianity's neo platonism, that they

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don't believe that anymore. That's kind of been ditched in scholarship.

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It's older scholarship that was trying to make that argument

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about Christianity being neoplatonic. But you see that, for example,

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reflected in Nietzsche's day where he says it's just another

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version of Platonism. And certainly many of the Christians over

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the years, especially in the West, have been absolutely platonic,

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especially a lot of the Calvinists and the Thomas, no

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doubt about that. But what you realize is that between

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Iamblicus and between Platinis Neoplatonism is two completely different approaches.

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Is it me mentally recognizing these things or is it

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a bunch of ritual magic leading to theurgy? You see,

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which one is the real neoplatonism and so all, And

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it's the same thing in the rights of the constructed

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made up religions of paganism or any other cult. It's

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completely subjective.

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Speaker 1: It is not.

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Speaker 3: Historically authenticated, and just because something's old doesn't mean it's true,

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even if you could reconstruct it.

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Speaker 1: So what.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't mean it's true. I mean, for example, if the

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Rosetta Stone was the means by which hieroglyphics were deciphered,

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then the gobbledegook of masonry and their egyptology before the

278
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Rosetta Stone probably is wrong in a lot of areas,

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don't you think? Yeah, exactly. So what you start to realize,

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and this is what I realized, when you get to

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a certain point in the researching, maybe like esoteric guys hermeticists,

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and you realize, oh wait a minute, like Manley P.

283
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Hall's big book, he's just doing He's just piecing together

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things from comparative religion, and they're just looking for similarities.

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And I'm not saying you can't find similarities. But what

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I'm saying is that a lot of these cult leaders

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they're just making it up, dude. They're making it up

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as they go. They're starting their own shit, right, They're

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not really passing down mysteries. There might be some truths

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and mysteries contained and what they're constructing, but they're not

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the part of some lineage of the true Druidic tradition.

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Get that out of here, bullshit, Because there's a lot

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more about the anti world that we don't know than

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we do know. Now, that doesn't mean that there's absolutely

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no traditions that are passed down. I'm not saying that.

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I'm just saying that the resurgence of paganism I don't believe.

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And this is we're gonna see this now all over.

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This is what all these people are gonna They're gonna

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go into it just like sheep. They're being primed for

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this because of the collapse of Evangelicalism, the collapse of

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Roman Catholicism. They're all just piling into neopaganism. But let's

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talk about whether or not logic and reason and philosophy

303
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can actually coincide with paganism and all this stuff, because

304
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I don't think it can. I think actually we'll find

305
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that they are self refuting and inconsistent. So let's look

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at the basic outline of what the dude last night

307
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said Twitter. And I'm not intentionally trying to misrepresent him.

308
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If I misstate him, I'm sure we'll have a future

309
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,440
interaction he can correct me. But what I understood him

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to be saying is that he starts with this metaphysical

311
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assumption that that we It's not exactly clear where he started. Then,

312
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That's why I kept pressing him on this, because he says, well,

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we look out at the world and we see that

314
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there was at one time a one. There was a hyperussia,

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beyond being, super existence, a monad emmonism, some kind of

316
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great unity, and then it split into the diad. Okay,

317
00:31:20,079 --> 00:31:23,119
this is what all the ancient Greeks taught. Basically both

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I agree in Plato the diad then is the beginning

319
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,039
of multiplicity, and then the Dad kind of splits into

320
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all of the particulars of our experience that we see

321
00:31:35,079 --> 00:31:38,559
out there in the world, all the hylomorphic matter form

322
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:47,599
instantiations or particulars out there. Now, let me see if

323
00:31:47,599 --> 00:31:51,200
he said anything else. Theology, then he says, is understanding

324
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:57,440
the gods and the principles behind things. There is the good,

325
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and there is what ought to be. And these are

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derived from reasoning about these principles, which he said were

327
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independent but present in this world, and ultimately they derive

328
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from the one in the monad world in the perfect unity.

329
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But also somehow there were there are many unmoved movers.

330
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So the I'm looking at my notes on his view,

331
00:32:27,319 --> 00:32:33,960
the lesser humans have a lesser morality. I'm not sure

332
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,039
what he meant by that, but and so this is

333
00:32:36,079 --> 00:32:39,519
what he's derived from reading seventh century BC to third

334
00:32:39,599 --> 00:32:45,359
century BC Greek and Confucian philosophy. Okay, so it's kind

335
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,079
of a little bit of Aristotol and a little bit

336
00:32:47,079 --> 00:32:48,720
of the far easier stuff and a little bit of Plato.

337
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Because he said he believes in divine idea or ideas.

338
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There's no mind for these ideas, so that doesn't even

339
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make any sense. But he says there's ideas that are

340
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independent of material form and existence, and he says we

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00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:04,759
need to look to Permenides. So go back to the

342
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Presocratics and the Ionians and look to Parmenides. Permendes taught

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00:33:08,759 --> 00:33:13,559
us that everything that is will always be. And again,

344
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the logical conclusion of that is that change is illusory.

345
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I mean, if the here and the now is eternal

346
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and it's always just going to be happening again and

347
00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:28,680
again and again, then it doesn't it stand the reason

348
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that the alterations in time and space that we experience

349
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that they are illusory, because it means that every single

350
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point in time is eternal. So this is really just

351
00:33:41,599 --> 00:33:45,640
a deifying of the here and the now right. This

352
00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:49,759
is all The monistic systems can either be dualistic and

353
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,759
nonsensical or monistic and nonsensical. They can collapse either way.

354
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This is always true of any monistic system, he says.

355
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He says his system is monism. It's always one. The

356
00:34:00,319 --> 00:34:04,160
fundamental unifying aspect of all reality, the fundamental structure of

357
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all reality, or the ultimate reality is just one all

358
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things that are are. So he starts his system off

359
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,000
with this statement, everything is or isn't. Isn't doesn't make sense,

360
00:34:14,039 --> 00:34:17,639
So therefore everything is okay, this is number one. This

361
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,000
is not a coherent starting point like he thinks. He

362
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:27,239
thinks a starting point is theory neutral, that he can

363
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,599
just start with this reasoned out assumption of what existence

364
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:35,639
and being and all things are. No, you can't. I'm

365
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:37,519
not saying you can never have a starting point. I'm

366
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:40,079
pointing out that that is not the neutral starting point

367
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:44,039
that you think it is. And so that was a

368
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,079
about forty minutes of stressing that point, and I don't

369
00:34:47,079 --> 00:34:49,480
think that he ever grasped it, or if he did,

370
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:59,239
I don't know. Then when we started against this discussed

371
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,199
time and change, and then when we moved into the

372
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,760
last part of the debate where my audio was cutting

373
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,039
out pretty heavy, and I was asking him how he

374
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:09,679
came to these conclusions and how he had episomic certainty

375
00:35:09,679 --> 00:35:12,039
about all these claims. How did he go from these

376
00:35:12,119 --> 00:35:16,840
general instantiations to universals, from the particular to the universal,

377
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,000
which is again a big problem in the Arisitilian system.

378
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,159
I don't think we got a coherent answer. I think

379
00:35:23,199 --> 00:35:25,760
what we got was him saying, well, I experienced it.

380
00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:29,079
Let me just go back to my individual personal experience

381
00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:31,320
and I look out and I see change. So change

382
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:37,920
is real, but it's not ultimate. The debate is everything

383
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,360
I do is on my website and my social media.

384
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,079
So it debate was last night. It'll be linked in

385
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,639
the thing. If Joe the Boomer hasn't made it, it

386
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:48,400
was on the Daily Prap, if Joe the Boomer hasn't

387
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:54,159
made it behind a paywall. So all right, So let's

388
00:35:54,159 --> 00:35:59,519
start with these things that he's laid out, and let's

389
00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:04,519
take them now again. Monastic systems. And this is why

390
00:36:04,559 --> 00:36:06,320
I kept hammering this home and he didn't get it,

391
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,280
and he didn't answer it. Any fundamental critique from the

392
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,800
time of the Presocratics and the Ionians up through Plato,

393
00:36:15,199 --> 00:36:17,800
and it still applies to Aersol too, even though Ersol

394
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,280
tried to solve this problem in Plato, and it's applicable

395
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,880
to all the far Eastern monastic views. Is the fact

396
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:25,719
that in this realm of the ideal, in this realm

397
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,960
of the one and of the monad, if everything is

398
00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:33,880
perfectly simple and unified, then it shares no similarity or

399
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:39,480
likeness to this realm. Okay, but if we think about Plato,

400
00:36:39,559 --> 00:36:42,239
for example, Plato wanted the world that we inhabit to

401
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,639
be a kind of a rough phantasm mirror of that realm.

402
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,159
Right the ideas in that realm are reflected into this

403
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,000
realm in pale ways. So all the chairs that you

404
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:59,480
see are pale lesser being and stantiations of the ultimate

405
00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:01,880
chairness that exists in the realm of the ideas. Now

406
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,599
there's a problem right off from the outset. If the

407
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:09,320
one is absolutely simple, then there aren't multiple different forms

408
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,760
within it. And again this is what I critiqued intomism

409
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,760
to classical theists, because it's true because they adopt absolute

410
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:21,639
demond simplicity, and they adopt the actus purest view. Now

411
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,719
there can't be multiple ideas and a real distinction in

412
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,719
an absolute unity of this nature of this kind. But

413
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:34,320
if you're going to say that all the things that

414
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,559
exist in this realm are grounded in the ideas in

415
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,199
that realm, in the monad out there, in the One,

416
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:44,840
in the great Unity, in the great Beyond, whatever, wherever

417
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:49,239
you locate, it doesn't matter, then you need there to

418
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,760
be multiple different things, because if there's not, then what

419
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,440
you end up having to say is that, in fact,

420
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,519
distinctions themselves are all also illusory. Because if there's not

421
00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:02,039
a form of a chair and a form of a

422
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:06,239
man in the one, because that's where you've said it's located,

423
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:08,559
that's where it's in. The ideas are in the form.

424
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:13,159
By the way, how do ideas subsist in an impersonal,

425
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,960
abstract realm doesn't make any sense because the word idea,

426
00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:20,039
the whole conception of idea, is itself analogous to his

427
00:38:20,159 --> 00:38:23,039
mind having ideas, so it's retarded from the outset. But

428
00:38:23,519 --> 00:38:27,519
setting that aside, if there's not a separate form of man,

429
00:38:27,679 --> 00:38:29,760
in a separate form of chair in the Great One,

430
00:38:30,119 --> 00:38:33,920
then it can't be the ground of your epistemic certitude

431
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,960
in this world. This is the fundamental problem of all

432
00:38:38,079 --> 00:38:41,000
monistic systems because they try to relate that world to

433
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:44,760
this world, and it doesn't work because this world is

434
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,119
in perpetual flux and change and is constituted by many, many,

435
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:52,119
many different distinct things. There are many particulars everywhere in

436
00:38:52,159 --> 00:38:59,519
this world, many many, many distinctions. And what we see

437
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:01,000
is that when we try to ground it in this

438
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:07,079
abstract nonsense thing, what happens is that all again dissolves.

439
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,840
What seemed like it might be a coherent basis right, basically,

440
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:18,039
what Plato says, in fact does not work. It completely dissolves.

441
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,440
Now I'm not just making Aristotle's third man argument. That's

442
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:25,320
not what I'm saying. Don't misunderstand me. This is not

443
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,480
basic bitch stuff. We're beyond that. What I'm saying is

444
00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:32,039
that there's an even better critique, and ultimately it applies

445
00:39:32,039 --> 00:39:35,159
to Aristotle too, because Aristotle doesn't actually ever get from

446
00:39:35,199 --> 00:39:38,920
the particulars to the universal. It doesn't make any sense

447
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,840
to say, well, there's universals, but they're just in every particular.

448
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,079
And that's why later down the road, the empiricist philosophers

449
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:51,039
who followed that train of thought out consistently rejected universals

450
00:39:51,199 --> 00:39:54,159
and became nominalists. They said, yeah, exactly, if we're going

451
00:39:54,199 --> 00:39:57,400
to start with empirical sense data, guess what we don't

452
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,679
ever actually empirically sense a universe. We since this event,

453
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:05,159
this event, this event, this event, or this collection of matter,

454
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,320
this collection of matter, this collection of matter. That's not

455
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,320
getting you to a universal if you believe in empiricism

456
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,760
and the Aristotilian system, although it is a realist system,

457
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:22,719
it is certainly more empirical than the a priori speculative

458
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:28,639
platonic view. But it doesn't matter because he grounded his essences,

459
00:40:28,679 --> 00:40:33,639
his ideas, his forms, the divine idea or the ideas

460
00:40:33,679 --> 00:40:35,760
as he called them, which have an independent existence. He

461
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,519
grounded them as I understood in relationship to the unmoved

462
00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:45,199
movers which exist in the realm of I guess lower

463
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,920
degree particularity. And he said, ahha, that's a good question.

464
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,400
When I asked him, is there one unmoved mover or

465
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,920
fifty five? Because Aristotol contradict himself, and he admitted, Arisotle

466
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,519
contradicts and says both at one and one in metaphysics

467
00:40:58,599 --> 00:41:04,039
that there are fifty five movers, and also in the

468
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,920
on the celestial heavens, he speaks of one unmoved mover. Well,

469
00:41:09,679 --> 00:41:11,920
this is a problem with the one in the many, okay,

470
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,039
and you can't solve it by saying that there's a

471
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,400
fifty five different unmoved movers. Oh wait, there's only one

472
00:41:18,519 --> 00:41:21,960
unmoved mover. So he didn't really give an answer to that.

473
00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:24,840
He kind of spoke early on in the debate about

474
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,039
the different principles that are unmoved movers, and then later

475
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,239
in the when I really honed in on that, he said, oh, well, no,

476
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,960
there's just one unmoved mover. So that was a pretty

477
00:41:36,039 --> 00:41:38,440
devastating blow, I would say to his to his argument,

478
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,360
and it really illustrates the higher level critique and principle

479
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:43,719
that I was making about the one in the many.

480
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:45,840
You're always gonna have a dialectic in your system between

481
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,840
one and many when you start with this absolutely simple, impersonal, unknown,

482
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:57,360
unknowable monad and super essential oneness, right, which is, by

483
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,559
the way, hyper ussia, beyond being a pyrone, beyond being

484
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,320
wholly other. If it's wholly other and wholly beyond being

485
00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:10,679
in your view, then it doesn't relate to the many particularities.

486
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:15,760
It doesn't act as a platonic grounding for the many, many,

487
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,920
many particularities and particulars that we experience in this world.

488
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,400
And then of course I made moving beyond that, the

489
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,639
point about any of those systems, whether it's the Presocratics,

490
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,320
the Ionians, whether it's Plato, or whether it's far Eastern thought,

491
00:42:33,199 --> 00:42:35,559
is that if you follow that through, then it leads

492
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:37,920
to the logical conclusion that in this world. And he

493
00:42:38,159 --> 00:42:40,320
even appealed to Parmenides, and I said, well, if you

494
00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:44,559
have a legitimate defense of parmenities, I'm willing to hear it.

495
00:42:45,039 --> 00:42:47,559
But he just said no, I mean, I agree with promenities,

496
00:42:47,599 --> 00:42:51,199
but you're just giving a basic bitch critique of permenities. Okay,

497
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,039
I said, so defend permenities then, because if everything that

498
00:42:55,199 --> 00:42:59,000
exists is pure permanence, truly speaking, and the world that

499
00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:02,800
we experience is flux and change, doesn't it stand to

500
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,960
reason that the world of flux and change isn't really real.

501
00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:13,159
So the far Eastern philosophies, Buddhism, hindu whatever that follow

502
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,840
through with that line of reasoning and ultimately come to

503
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:19,800
the conclusion that oh wait a minute, yes, this world

504
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,360
is like a giant demiurge tricking me, and he even

505
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,480
brought that up. He even said, well, how do you

506
00:43:26,599 --> 00:43:28,719
know it's not an evil demon tricking you? Right, the

507
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:33,000
Descartes critique, And I said, well, first of all, that's

508
00:43:33,039 --> 00:43:37,320
really easy to refute, because if that view is true,

509
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,320
then it's completely destructive to all rationality and logic and

510
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,920
argumentation period. And so therefore it's not true because it's

511
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:50,239
so fundamentally destructive to the possibility of reasoning. What how

512
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,400
could that be? Well, let me give you an example.

513
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,360
If it is true that everything that I learn in

514
00:43:55,519 --> 00:44:03,519
this realm, in this world is ultimately illusory, and if

515
00:44:03,559 --> 00:44:07,280
it's true that there's no change ultimately, then I didn't

516
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,719
really progress from a state of not knowing that truth

517
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,320
to knowing that truth. And when I did possess from

518
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,360
a state of being of not knowing that truth to

519
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,719
then knowing this supposed great truth, then isn't that also

520
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,159
part of the great illusion? Why? Yes, it is.

521
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: So.

522
00:44:27,199 --> 00:44:34,360
Speaker 3: This sillipsistic, gnostic nonsense view is immediately self destructive, just

523
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,880
as self destructive and stupid as relativism. And I'm sure

524
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,000
that our friend, tweeted, fond would not be a relativist.

525
00:44:42,039 --> 00:44:51,719
He would critique that surely. And then from there we

526
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:58,599
understand that guess what these pagan views, the gnostic view,

527
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:05,039
the ancient far Eastern view, and the presocratic Platonic view,

528
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,920
Why they're all really similar, aren't they. So while all

529
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,559
of this apologetic discussion and debate sounds really obtuse and

530
00:45:12,599 --> 00:45:17,960
it's really abstract, it's really really simple because the founding

531
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,039
points where these systems try to start building are very similar,

532
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:24,760
and they're almost always the same, and it always starts

533
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:29,800
with the individual's reasoning and rationality, constructing something that ultimately

534
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:36,559
ends up in subjectivism or pure relativism every time, and

535
00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:39,679
so ultimately, now it doesn't matter whether it's the atheist,

536
00:45:40,159 --> 00:45:44,119
whether it's the complete rank materialist, or whether it's the

537
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,599
dude in your college class who's like man, and like,

538
00:45:49,159 --> 00:45:52,840
what if we're in a simulation, it's the same thing

539
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:58,199
Plato's demiurge a gnosticism. This world is a trick. Got

540
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:03,119
to flee it, flee the body. Same doctrine for Eastern religions.

541
00:46:03,159 --> 00:46:07,559
You got to like meditate yourself out of existence, destroy

542
00:46:07,639 --> 00:46:11,159
your ego man to become one with usness. Same basic argument.

543
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:13,360
Now he didn't say that he's like I don't believe

544
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:18,199
this Hindu style stuff of you know, trying to destroy

545
00:46:18,199 --> 00:46:21,519
your ego whatever. But it doesn't matter because at root

546
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,360
all these positions are monistic, and then they have the

547
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:29,320
problem of relating that world to this world, which becomes

548
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:33,840
a problem of dualism. The perfect ideal world to this world,

549
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,440
how does it relate? And we all know Plato's answer

550
00:46:36,519 --> 00:46:39,519
to this question, which is retarded and laughable. Well, I guess,

551
00:46:39,559 --> 00:46:44,360
at one time in our in our pre existent eternal lives,

552
00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:49,599
in our ur before we reincarnate stages back, we were

553
00:46:49,639 --> 00:46:53,159
in the ideal realm, and so that's how we were

554
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,599
just remembering what was in that perfect realm. That's a

555
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,360
retarded ad hoc answer, and Aerosol is correct to say, no,

556
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:03,400
that's a retarded adholc answer. But guess what. Aristotle's smushing

557
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,679
of the ideas of the forms, of the essences, of

558
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,039
the of the universals into the particulars doesn't work either.

559
00:47:12,639 --> 00:47:16,159
So Aristotle's right to critique Plato and his answer is

560
00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:21,320
also retarded. So what Aristotle does? Guess what? Here's let

561
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:23,960
me blow your mind. Remember that all the arguments about

562
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:29,519
absolute divine simplicity. Well, guess what hilomorphism. It just takes

563
00:47:29,559 --> 00:47:32,280
all the problems of absolute divine simplicity that we critique

564
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,360
in the theology and it applies them to particular objects.

565
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:42,599
It's smushing the accidents as not really what constitutes the object.

566
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:48,559
It's just smushing the universals into the particulars. And holomorphism

567
00:47:48,639 --> 00:47:50,840
ends up with absolute simplicity for objects.

568
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:53,840
Speaker 1: Boo. Yeah.

569
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,119
Speaker 3: And holomorphism doesn't work for the human body, obviously. It's

570
00:47:59,199 --> 00:48:03,719
one percent contradictory to our Christology and to our anthropology. Obviously.

571
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,159
Now let's get more precise about Aristotle, because he's so

572
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,360
lauded and praised by all these people. And by the way,

573
00:48:14,119 --> 00:48:20,119
the Thomas today on Twitter, and the Augustinians and the Romanchallics,

574
00:48:20,599 --> 00:48:25,840
they just got Saint John Damascus this book that includes

575
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,639
the philosophical chapters, and they're like, haha, he talks about

576
00:48:30,639 --> 00:48:34,800
Aristotle and substance and accidents. We got Jay, we got him.

577
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:35,559
Speaker 1: Bro.

578
00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 3: I've been lecturing on that book for three years. Where

579
00:48:38,519 --> 00:48:42,360
you been. I knew years ago that's what's in that book.

580
00:48:43,119 --> 00:48:44,800
And the reason I did that lecture three or four

581
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,719
years ago is because he doesn't use Aristotle in the

582
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:52,840
same way as Thomas, because in defense of the end

583
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,880
of the Orthodox Faith, he teaches the essence inergistinction from

584
00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:01,000
books one through three, and multiple times over, Aquinas rejects

585
00:49:01,559 --> 00:49:05,400
the essence centergus thinction. This is not even in debate.

586
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:10,800
Catch up, dudes, it's time to catch up. Any basic

587
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:16,679
Tomistic work will tell you that Thomas Aquinas rejects the

588
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:28,000
essence energy distinction. Thomas teaches Actus purists. That means there's

589
00:49:28,039 --> 00:49:34,639
no essence energy distinction. It's not hard to figure out.

590
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,599
You can confuse yourself and get lost in all this stuff,

591
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:43,360
but it's not hard to figure out if Thomists and

592
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,760
Roman Catholicism accept or reject the essence entergy distinction. It's

593
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,039
not hard to figure that out. And so guess what.

594
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: We have.

595
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 3: Plenty of uses for Aristotle. We have plenty of uses

596
00:49:56,519 --> 00:49:59,280
for logic. Do you see me here debating all of

597
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,039
these atheists and utilizing logic. If I didn't think Aristotle

598
00:50:03,119 --> 00:50:06,480
said true things, I wouldn't be utilizing a transcedental argument,

599
00:50:06,519 --> 00:50:11,159
which he uses in the metaphysics. When Saint John Damascus

600
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:16,280
goes through the philosophical chapters and cites Aristotle, he uses

601
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:20,000
a transcendental argument against the soface. He uses that from Aristotle.

602
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:24,599
I've been here for years, citing Saint John Damascus's use

603
00:50:25,159 --> 00:50:28,639
of the transcendental argument from Aristotle. Bro, catch up, dude,

604
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,840
that wasn't it. That's not a gotcha moment. They don't

605
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,440
understand that the gotcha moments are actually just making them

606
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:40,440
look goofy, because I've already covered all this for years. Anyway,

607
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:43,920
these are young guys. These are guys who are like

608
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,760
twenty one. They don't they don't know what they're talking about.

609
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:52,320
All right, So let's get into Aristotle because again, what

610
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:54,880
we want to stress here is that Plato and Aristotle

611
00:50:54,960 --> 00:51:00,519
are wrong in a very fundamental way, and Plato Aristotle

612
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:04,559
are right in insightful ways. Does that make sense? Can

613
00:51:04,639 --> 00:51:12,639
we grasp that? So, first of all, what we want

614
00:51:12,679 --> 00:51:15,119
to understand when we can trast this, We're going to

615
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,800
look more in depth at the Aristotilian view as an

616
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,480
example here, because again with this guy, it's a very

617
00:51:20,519 --> 00:51:23,719
good bridge between the Tomists and the Pagans, because this

618
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,000
guy was interested in Aristotle very heavily, or a good

619
00:51:28,039 --> 00:51:30,599
bit of ariostol. He liked a lot of aerosol, and

620
00:51:31,559 --> 00:51:36,719
Aristotle is the bridge between Hellenism and you know, tomistic

621
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,039
Rome Catholicism in a big way. And I'm very aware

622
00:51:39,159 --> 00:51:43,239
that Aquinas cites Augustine, and he cites Dionysius and the

623
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:47,199
divine names many many, many, many many times in Assumer.

624
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,880
In fact, I believe he cites Dionysius more than he

625
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,400
cites Ariostol. I'm aware of all that. But regardless, it

626
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,000
doesn't really matter. It's not what we're here to talk about.

627
00:51:55,039 --> 00:51:58,119
Let's critique the Aristotilian perspective, because what we want to

628
00:51:58,119 --> 00:52:03,039
see is that Aristotle's system fundamentally is not at all Christian.

629
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,159
And if the fact that there's similar terms, it doesn't matter.

630
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:12,119
If I say unmoved mover, I say, I believe that

631
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,360
the world was started by a first cause an unmoved mover,

632
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:17,360
And you get all excited and you start jumping around,

633
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:19,599
Oh bro, you believe the same thing we do. We

634
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,440
just differ on who it is. And then I say, yeah,

635
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:29,920
the unmoved mover was Satan. Doesn't that really illustrate the

636
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:34,559
absurdity of just because he speaks of the unmoved mover

637
00:52:36,519 --> 00:52:39,239
as if, as if I could, in apologetics join with

638
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,239
a Joeah's witness and join with an arian, and join

639
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,880
with a scientology proponent, and join with whoever else. It

640
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:50,920
doesn't matter Islam. Oh we're all going to argue for

641
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,280
the same common God. No, we don't have the same

642
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,280
common God, because we have the training God, and that's

643
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,199
the only god that's ever existed, not a generic theism

644
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:04,880
that all the religon Jens know about. All right. So

645
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,880
position A that we want to talk about, this problematic

646
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:16,280
and contrasts is once again because this position that Arisola

647
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:21,840
would outline fundamentally can't interpret nature correctly. So one reason

648
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,519
we can't do natural theology, and why in our theology

649
00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:28,559
it's more properly called natural revelation, is because you can't

650
00:53:28,599 --> 00:53:31,760
properly interpret the external world, the natural world as it

651
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,599
is now, without the doctrine of the fall, because if

652
00:53:35,639 --> 00:53:37,639
you do try to do that, you will come to

653
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:42,119
the conclusion, you will reason to the faulty conclusion as

654
00:53:42,199 --> 00:53:47,559
the Deists and the Enlightenment guys did that. Whoever constructed

655
00:53:47,599 --> 00:53:49,360
this world, if I just look at at the natural world,

656
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:52,559
is a psychopath, because that psychopath has made death and

657
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:58,960
life just as important in the natural world. Yes, natural

658
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,679
theology leads to to atheism, because the God of natural

659
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,960
theology is the god of natural rights in the natural world,

660
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:12,480
who naturally has put death into practice to feed on life,

661
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:16,159
and life feeds on death. Right when a body decomposes,

662
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:23,280
outcome the microbes and the whatever that feed on the

663
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:27,320
death and the decay. Now that's not the natural state

664
00:54:27,360 --> 00:54:32,480
of things. That's not natural. It's natural in a limited sense,

665
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:36,639
but that's not the way God intended the world to be,

666
00:54:37,559 --> 00:54:41,320
because this world is fallen, and the decay and death

667
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:44,119
and destruction that are in the world, any form of death,

668
00:54:45,159 --> 00:54:48,119
is a result of Adam's fall. Romans eight makes us

669
00:54:48,159 --> 00:54:51,719
abundantly clear. So again, as I did in the philosoph

670
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:55,000
traditional philosophy and metaphysics lectures already covered this. We covered

671
00:54:55,039 --> 00:54:57,840
why natural theology doesn't work. They don't get it, they

672
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,320
can't grasp it. They can't understand that you can interpret

673
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,239
the natural world without the fall. But the doctrine of

674
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:08,719
the fall is presupposing the doctrine of creation, and the

675
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:14,320
doctrine of creation and the fall presupposed revelation Genesis. So

676
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:18,400
you can't properly interpret the external world without supernatural revelation

677
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,199
contained in Genesis and by Extension and the rest of

678
00:55:22,199 --> 00:55:26,800
the scriptures. This is why, as Father Stanneloy says in

679
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,159
Volume one or Orthodox Dogmatics, for us, there is no

680
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:36,159
natural theology. There's natural revelation. So you could see why

681
00:55:36,159 --> 00:55:37,679
Aristota looks out at the world and he says, well,

682
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:41,880
death is just a natural process. The Seventh Actumenical Council

683
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:45,840
condemns those who call death a natural process. Right, because

684
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:50,159
the Seventh Ecumenical Council accepts the Trollo synod decrees and

685
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:55,800
the Canons of Trollo accept the earlier canons that speak

686
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,119
of condemning anybody who says that death is a natural

687
00:55:59,199 --> 00:56:02,039
process and that death would have happened had not Adam sinned.

688
00:56:02,519 --> 00:56:05,199
You have to believe. This is why theistic evolution is

689
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:09,639
impossible in any Christian system, Orthodoxy especially obviously that's the

690
00:56:09,679 --> 00:56:12,880
only one that's truly Christian. You can't believe in theistic

691
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,880
evolution because it denies that the canons of Trollo, which

692
00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,960
are accepted at and I see it too. I've cited

693
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,199
this hundreds of times. I get tired of citing this

694
00:56:21,679 --> 00:56:23,159
and every time, and now that I do this, somebody

695
00:56:23,159 --> 00:56:25,519
gonna say, where is that? Where is that again. I'm

696
00:56:25,519 --> 00:56:28,280
gonna have to put it on my Twitter again. Pay attention.

697
00:56:31,039 --> 00:56:37,199
So death is unnatural. This is fundamental to Orthodox theology.

698
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,880
That's why in the Harrowing of Hades Icon, Christ is

699
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,719
destroying death. And you say, well, is it spiritual death

700
00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:47,880
or physical death? It's both because they're both intertwined. Because

701
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,760
man is a whole. He's a holistic being, body, soul,

702
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:55,199
and spirit. And so when we speak of death, it's

703
00:56:55,280 --> 00:57:00,239
the It is intermittently linked. It is linked in the

704
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:03,199
body and in the spirit and into all creation. That's

705
00:57:03,199 --> 00:57:06,760
why when Adam sends as the steward and covenant head

706
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,440
of the of the cosmos of creation, when he sinned,

707
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:14,840
it affected the entire world, the entire universe. It introduced

708
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,639
decay and destruction into the entire universe. And that's why

709
00:57:18,119 --> 00:57:19,599
we can't look out at the world as it is

710
00:57:19,719 --> 00:57:24,639
now and reason back to a creator. If you listen

711
00:57:24,719 --> 00:57:26,880
to Neildagrass Tyson, if you go listen to the talks

712
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:29,519
that I did on the Cornelius Hunter book about Darwin's God,

713
00:57:29,639 --> 00:57:32,639
I talk about this in depth, and I explain how

714
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,519
Neildagrass Tyson is right when he says, if you think

715
00:57:37,599 --> 00:57:42,599
that the world out there teaches you natural theology, then

716
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,480
to me, it seems like it teaches a psychopath god,

717
00:57:46,039 --> 00:57:49,760
because the psychopath god necessitates predator and pray relations for

718
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:53,960
life to exist and subsisting to continue. But guess what,

719
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:57,199
that's not the natural state of things. We live in

720
00:57:57,239 --> 00:58:00,440
an unnatural state of things because of the fall. So

721
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:04,840
nature and being natural is a very vague and loose term.

722
00:58:05,679 --> 00:58:08,639
It's a theory laden term. It doesn't come to us

723
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:12,760
with uninterpreted brute meaning. It's not a brute fact. We

724
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:16,440
don't know what nature means apart from the rest of

725
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:22,440
some philosophical or theological system. So this is another easy

726
00:58:22,559 --> 00:58:26,440
point to contrast Christianity from Arisitilianism or any of the paganisms,

727
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,079
is that we're the only position that teaches creation x nilo.

728
00:58:29,559 --> 00:58:31,480
We're the only position that's going to interpret the world

729
00:58:31,519 --> 00:58:34,199
in a certain way, ultimately the correct way, but in

730
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:36,519
a certain way where we see death as an enemy,

731
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:40,119
and where as a result, death and sin are intimate,

732
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:48,199
are intimately connected, and thus man's problem is moral. This

733
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,159
sets us off against all the other positions because all

734
00:58:52,199 --> 00:58:56,800
those far eastern monistic positions they start with man's problem

735
00:58:56,880 --> 00:59:00,639
being metaphysics. They don't start with a sin in the

736
00:59:00,719 --> 00:59:05,159
garden that's moral that leads to metaphysical problems and ontological

737
00:59:05,199 --> 00:59:08,280
decay in the universe. They start with a metaphysical problem

738
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:14,480
of the one, and somehow movements changed things and it

739
00:59:14,599 --> 00:59:18,440
split the one, and then that diad split into a

740
00:59:18,519 --> 00:59:24,119
triad that split into the multiplicity and infinity. Fractal nonsense, right,

741
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:33,320
I'm not saying fractals aren't true, but that scheme is

742
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:40,199
immediately contrasted with our redemptive scheme. In our scheme, creation

743
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,960
is good. It's done x nelo out of nothing. It's

744
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:46,480
not a pre existent matter that God forms into something.

745
00:59:46,519 --> 00:59:50,920
It's not co eternal with God. History thus is linear

746
00:59:51,079 --> 00:59:55,880
beginning middle end. This, by the way, is a presubsitional

747
00:59:55,960 --> 01:00:00,440
category for understanding all of experience beginning middle end. No

748
01:00:00,599 --> 01:00:04,119
human being experiences the world in reverse. No human being

749
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:10,079
experiences reality from the middle to the beginning to the end. No,

750
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:14,119
it's We are constituted as beings to experience everything in

751
01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:16,880
our lives beginning, middle and end. And so you could

752
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:21,639
argue that this means of experiencing the world itself is

753
01:00:21,719 --> 01:00:23,719
one of the transcendental categories. In fact, I think I

754
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,519
think Kant himself even argues that that's a transcendental precondition

755
01:00:27,679 --> 01:00:32,960
for understanding anyway. Regardless, the point being is that our

756
01:00:33,079 --> 01:00:37,599
view of history is then linear, not cyclical. The world

757
01:00:37,679 --> 01:00:39,760
comes to be at a specific point in time. It

758
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:42,719
wasn't eternal, it's not a part of God, it's not

759
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:46,239
an emanation. God freely created. This is why we can't

760
01:00:46,239 --> 01:00:48,760
believe in absolute divine simplicity, because that would mean that

761
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:52,039
the action of creating is also co eternal with God's essence.

762
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,880
And thus creating was always eternally an action of God.

763
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,559
God eternally created, and then the creation ultimately becomes eternal.

764
01:00:58,599 --> 01:01:01,360
It takes on one of the properties of divinity, takes

765
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:06,039
on an eternal, uncreated state. But creation is not uncreated.

766
01:01:06,079 --> 01:01:08,559
That doesn't make any sense. So so creation has to

767
01:01:08,599 --> 01:01:10,920
be freely done. This is the whole point of the

768
01:01:11,719 --> 01:01:16,239
Fluorosky essay on Athenasius and Athanasius's arguments with the Arians.

769
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:20,280
You have to make a distinction between God's nature and

770
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:24,880
God's will and counsel, and so ultimately, Father Fluorowsky demonstrates

771
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:27,320
without any shadow of a doubt, the Sant athenacious against

772
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:31,039
the Arians, is arguing the essence s energy distinction. That's

773
01:01:31,079 --> 01:01:34,480
the whole point. If he's not, then his whole argument

774
01:01:34,519 --> 01:01:38,199
with the Arians falls apart. So we see a system

775
01:01:38,239 --> 01:01:42,639
then where creation begins. It's ex nilo. It's not out

776
01:01:42,679 --> 01:01:45,719
of God or part of God. It's from nothing. And

777
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:47,599
that doesn't mean that there was nothing and then God

778
01:01:47,679 --> 01:01:50,639
and creation came into existence. No, it means that God,

779
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,559
forevery for all eternity was there, and he would have

780
01:01:53,599 --> 01:01:55,960
been there had he not created. But when he created,

781
01:01:56,039 --> 01:02:00,280
he created into nothing. We say, just to spec fi

782
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:04,800
and to set off against these pagan and eternal return,

783
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:11,840
eternal recurrence type systems, cyclical systems. And again, cyclical history

784
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:16,159
relativizes history. It makes change within history meaningless. And because

785
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:20,280
change within and development within history is meaningless, what we

786
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:23,039
get is the next dialectic that I contrasted in the

787
01:02:23,079 --> 01:02:28,159
debate is that of stasis and change. Now, this dialectic

788
01:02:28,239 --> 01:02:32,039
is interesting because it's overlooked when we critique absolute divine

789
01:02:32,039 --> 01:02:36,559
simplicity and when we understand what Origin taught. So again

790
01:02:36,679 --> 01:02:39,280
we go back to Genesis. What Origin is teaching a

791
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:42,840
similar doctrine to Plato and the Platonists a pagan gnostic doctrine.

792
01:02:43,239 --> 01:02:46,440
He doesn't believe in creation. The Confession of Saint Sophronius

793
01:02:46,440 --> 01:02:49,920
accepted that the Sixth Council extensively condemns Origin for his

794
01:02:50,039 --> 01:02:54,400
rejection of Eden and the doctrine creation, and he allegorizes it,

795
01:02:54,599 --> 01:02:56,920
just like all the Darwinists and the theistic evolutions do.

796
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:00,280
They allegorize Genesis. They allegorized Eden. They said wasn't real,

797
01:03:01,239 --> 01:03:03,679
it was just some mythical, allegorical thing. Well, you're condemned

798
01:03:03,719 --> 01:03:06,320
by the Six Council for saying what Origin says, because

799
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,960
actually the Six Council is very explicit in the Confession

800
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:13,119
of Saint Sophronius about the errors of origin. It's not

801
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:17,039
a general condemnation of origins of Pocketstasus, It's a very

802
01:03:17,119 --> 01:03:22,440
specific condemnation of origins doctrine of allegorization of Genesis and Eden.

803
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:26,199
That's a heavy pill for a lot of these normy

804
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:30,480
docs to swallow, and they won't swallow it. They will

805
01:03:30,679 --> 01:03:35,400
choose anything but what Genesis says. Any give me anything

806
01:03:35,480 --> 01:03:38,559
but what scripture actually says anything about that? What did

807
01:03:38,639 --> 01:03:41,760
we see here? The pride of man, the pride of

808
01:03:41,840 --> 01:03:44,760
man of just not submitting to the scriptures. Whether it's

809
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,039
the Pagans or whether it's the normy docs, all of them.

810
01:03:48,599 --> 01:03:52,920
It's just human pride and autonomy and not wanting to

811
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:56,079
submit to what scripture says and what all the church

812
01:03:56,159 --> 01:04:01,599
fathers taught. And you say, well, yeah, but I found

813
01:04:01,599 --> 01:04:03,599
a church father who didn't believe. And it doesn't matter

814
01:04:03,679 --> 01:04:06,239
because by the Sex Council it's already settled. You can't

815
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:09,639
pick out one church father who got something wrong and

816
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:11,519
say well, I don't have to accept that, because right

817
01:04:11,719 --> 01:04:13,960
now you can't do that, and everybody knows you can't

818
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:15,880
do that. If you could do that, the whole system

819
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:18,000
would be chaos, nonsense, it would all collapse, It wouldn't

820
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:21,679
make any sense. Everybody could just it would be like Protestants,

821
01:04:21,719 --> 01:04:23,400
like everybody could just pick out which saint that they

822
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:30,039
want to fallow. So nature can't be interpreted without understanding

823
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:32,719
the doction of creation in the fall. And since we

824
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,679
see change in nature, we have a problem of relating

825
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:42,599
this unchanging, eternal, timeless, a temporal realm of impersonal whatever essence,

826
01:04:43,239 --> 01:04:47,239
to this realm of change and flux. So this is

827
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:51,119
a dialectic between being and becoming, and the Church Fathers

828
01:04:51,199 --> 01:04:54,320
encounter and debate the dialectic between being and becoming, and

829
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:58,519
it's specifically encountered in the encounter with Origin. And this

830
01:04:58,719 --> 01:05:02,440
actually it's Saint max when he corrects Origin. It's Saint

831
01:05:02,519 --> 01:05:05,639
Maximus that fixes a lot of this, because this originistic

832
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:08,719
error kept floating around and it kept popping back up.

833
01:05:09,679 --> 01:05:12,159
And if you read Saint Maximus, he's very explicit about

834
01:05:12,239 --> 01:05:14,400
how to correct and condemn this. And what he says

835
01:05:14,559 --> 01:05:17,280
is that in actually Saint Gregor a Nissa had already

836
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:21,079
done some some groundbreaking work in this arena, and he

837
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:23,760
points out that the problem with man and man's fall

838
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,440
wasn't being in a perfect state of unity and willing

839
01:05:29,079 --> 01:05:31,599
in some way to look to some other created good

840
01:05:31,719 --> 01:05:34,920
or some other thing to turn its gaze, its perfect

841
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:38,159
intellectual gaze away from the One. Okay, And in the

842
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:42,119
in the originistic scheme, the pre eternal, pre existent souls

843
01:05:43,079 --> 01:05:46,960
fell because they wield something other than the One and

844
01:05:47,159 --> 01:05:50,440
the good, and so then they fell into being in

845
01:05:50,559 --> 01:05:53,760
a created state, and they fell into bodies. This is

846
01:05:53,840 --> 01:06:00,199
totally heretical, totally gnostic, totally platonic garbage, garbage nonsense, anybody

847
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:04,920
trying to resurrect Origin is either a fool or demonic,

848
01:06:05,519 --> 01:06:07,760
all right, so you can't there's no you can't import

849
01:06:07,840 --> 01:06:12,280
any of this into orthox Christianity. It's nonsense when you

850
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,639
really understand the Origin is scheme. So the fall then

851
01:06:17,159 --> 01:06:20,320
for Origin is that. And then what happens in redemption

852
01:06:20,639 --> 01:06:23,360
is that the mind, the intellect you know, makes its

853
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:26,639
way back through the created images, is very platonic to

854
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:29,360
the one, right, and then when you get back to

855
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:33,760
the one, Origin says, if we have free will, it

856
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:38,119
stands to reason that you can always choose between good

857
01:06:38,159 --> 01:06:40,679
and evil. So as a dialectical definition of free will

858
01:06:41,079 --> 01:06:45,000
meaning either the choice between good or evil, and since

859
01:06:45,039 --> 01:06:47,800
everybody believes that you do retain free will in the afterlife,

860
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:50,400
you could see Origin's reasoning process here. He says, well,

861
01:06:51,079 --> 01:06:54,480
then in the in the afterlife, if you have free will,

862
01:06:54,519 --> 01:06:56,199
then you have to be able to will something other

863
01:06:56,239 --> 01:06:59,880
than the super supreme essence the monat And if you

864
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:02,679
can will something other than the super supreme essence monad

865
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:05,679
in the afterlife, in the next life in eternity, then

866
01:07:05,719 --> 01:07:09,639
you can fall again. So he has a weird mix

867
01:07:09,719 --> 01:07:13,400
of absolute divide simplicity, but also stressing free will. But again,

868
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:15,599
if you understand that, then you understand that it's actually

869
01:07:15,599 --> 01:07:19,079
the Roman Catholics and the Tomus that are inconsistent because

870
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:22,199
in the Beatific Vision doctrine they want to say that

871
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,880
the will is forever focused on the essence of God

872
01:07:26,000 --> 01:07:27,679
and seeing all things in the essence of God. But

873
01:07:27,719 --> 01:07:30,960
the essence of God is one. It's absolutely simple, and

874
01:07:31,039 --> 01:07:33,320
there aren't really many things in it, so there aren't

875
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:36,559
really different things to will. And every church father agrees

876
01:07:36,639 --> 01:07:39,920
that free will involves an actual choice. So if there's

877
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:42,000
only one thing in the afterlife and there's not a

878
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:45,000
real distinction between things, because you're all, everything is being

879
01:07:45,079 --> 01:07:47,599
seen and known through the essence of God, which is

880
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:54,159
total blasphemy. You guys, are blasphemous, then again we're at

881
01:07:54,199 --> 01:07:56,639
the problem of absolute divine simplicity, where there's not real

882
01:07:56,719 --> 01:07:59,519
distinctions in the one. And I brought this point up

883
01:07:59,519 --> 01:08:02,480
to Classist and I brought it up in the first

884
01:08:02,519 --> 01:08:04,880
time being on the Daily brap to the Thomas, and

885
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:07,519
I tried to stress this point because this is why

886
01:08:07,719 --> 01:08:13,400
the Atific Vision doctrine is just platonism. Now in our view,

887
01:08:13,480 --> 01:08:18,159
Saint Maximus has a great chapter in the If you

888
01:08:18,199 --> 01:08:22,039
read the Selected Writings version of Saint Maximus, there's a

889
01:08:22,199 --> 01:08:25,199
chapter where he talks about seeing God in the afterlife.

890
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:29,520
There's also a one of the theological orations of Gregory Nazianzus,

891
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,119
he talks about seeing God. So we have a problem

892
01:08:32,159 --> 01:08:34,279
of seeing God because, as you know, we say that

893
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:36,439
we already see God in this life and then it

894
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:40,319
becomes the fullness of that in the afterlife. But what

895
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:42,760
these fathers are very clear about is that we're not

896
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:46,000
seeing the essence of God. The seeing of God is

897
01:08:46,039 --> 01:08:49,760
seeing directly the energies of God. So there you go.

898
01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:56,960
That's the solution. Also the forms of things, if you

899
01:08:57,000 --> 01:08:58,880
want to call him that, the essences of the universals,

900
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:02,880
if you read ambiguous set of Saint Maximus, they're uncreated energies.

901
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:05,800
They're not the essence of God. This is where we

902
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:09,119
differ from the Roman Catholics. They're not exemplars in the

903
01:09:09,239 --> 01:09:09,760
essence of God.

904
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:11,319
Speaker 1: All right.

905
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 3: So, as we're moving through the Pagan system's come back

906
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,560
to this. The dialectic between stasis and change, between being

907
01:09:17,640 --> 01:09:21,960
and becoming is present in all the systems, just like

908
01:09:22,039 --> 01:09:24,439
the dialectic of the one and the many. Just like

909
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:27,680
the dialectic of monism and dualism, there's also a dialectic

910
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:30,960
between being and becoming. And these guys laugh and they

911
01:09:31,000 --> 01:09:34,600
make fun of talking about dialectics. They are you not

912
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:37,359
aware how prominent this is in the Church Fathers. How

913
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:41,239
constantly they're talking about the heretics being caught up in dialectics.

914
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,199
It's in all of them. Athanasius rebukes the Arians for it,

915
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:52,279
Basil rebukes the Eunomians for it. Nissa rebukes the Eunomians

916
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:56,279
for it. Saint Maximus rebukes the Monothelites for it. Nestorius

917
01:09:56,319 --> 01:09:59,399
gets rebuked for it. Because they're obsessed with either or

918
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:14,439
dialect So in our review, and if you read Father

919
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:17,239
Steine Eelloyd, if you read Orthodox Dogmatics Volume one, then

920
01:10:17,239 --> 01:10:20,720
you know that he has an awesome chapter on not

921
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:24,039
just the problems of absolute simplicity, but the problems of

922
01:10:24,079 --> 01:10:28,159
the dialectic between stasis and change. That's why for us,

923
01:10:28,239 --> 01:10:36,640
the afterlife is different. There's not just stasis. There's real

924
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,800
change in the afterlife because we're not playing this bro.

925
01:10:42,119 --> 01:10:46,920
And there's an extensive section where Father steinyeloin and Volume

926
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:53,399
one just completely annihilates this stupid argument. Now, that's going

927
01:10:53,439 --> 01:10:55,239
to be true for Origanism, and it's also true for

928
01:10:55,279 --> 01:10:57,239
all the paganisms, because are you are starting to see

929
01:10:57,239 --> 01:11:01,199
how a lot of these systems are because they start

930
01:11:01,239 --> 01:11:06,920
with the same errors and problems. So nature can't be

931
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:11,760
interpreted without creation. The fall, death becomes natural history becomes

932
01:11:11,880 --> 01:11:15,359
cyclical and meaningless and illusory. Ultimately, I would argue, if

933
01:11:15,399 --> 01:11:19,560
you're consistent in this system, perfection in this scheme is

934
01:11:19,720 --> 01:11:24,359
perfect unity. Why is perfect unity somehow perfection? All these

935
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,800
dumb philosophic systems, all the systems based on chain of being,

936
01:11:28,239 --> 01:11:32,439
they all have this assumption that perfection is somehow a

937
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:37,439
perfect unity or monad. Well, that kind of introduces a gradation,

938
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,239
and the Trinity, doesn't it, Yes, it does. But Basil says,

939
01:11:40,319 --> 01:11:42,279
God is not more one than he is three, and

940
01:11:42,319 --> 01:11:44,199
he's not more three than he is one. So there's

941
01:11:44,199 --> 01:11:46,560
the perfect balance of the one the many in the

942
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:49,359
Trinity according to the Eastern Fathers. So we don't want

943
01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:51,840
any of this gradations of being, We don't want any

944
01:11:52,239 --> 01:11:53,600
gradations of nonsense.

945
01:11:57,439 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 5: In God.

946
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:05,800
Speaker 3: There is perfect unity. In perfect change is not a

947
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:10,279
lesser onto logical status. Somebody saying, why don't you do

948
01:12:10,359 --> 01:12:12,560
a talk on why death isn't natural? I already did one.

949
01:12:13,239 --> 01:12:21,039
It's in the natural theology talk. No Greeks ever taught creation.

950
01:12:21,399 --> 01:12:24,680
No Greeks taught creation x neilo. No Greeks teach or

951
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,840
taught or ancient philosophers taught that man's problem is primarily moral.

952
01:12:30,119 --> 01:12:32,000
If they taught that man's problem is a lack of

953
01:12:32,079 --> 01:12:37,279
facts in education, no, that's not man's problem. Do you

954
01:12:37,359 --> 01:12:40,880
see that at each point our system doesn't work with

955
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:44,079
the Greeks. Now, the Greeks might have read Isaiah, they

956
01:12:44,159 --> 01:12:46,880
might have read Moses. We don't know. Many church fathers

957
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:50,520
thought maybe they did. Doesn't really matter. The point being

958
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:54,560
is that ours is the true system, and whatever truth

959
01:12:54,720 --> 01:12:59,239
they have is from us, dude, not the other way around. Now,

960
01:12:59,319 --> 01:13:01,520
if they say something true and they didn't learn it

961
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:04,880
from our system, it's still from us, because it's from

962
01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:07,960
the logos that they have, from the logos of God.

963
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,319
All right. So the next as we move up then

964
01:13:20,359 --> 01:13:23,600
to history. History for us is not a historical and

965
01:13:23,720 --> 01:13:27,159
meaningless and a prison to escape from the God of

966
01:13:28,359 --> 01:13:34,560
Creation stepped into history. History is meaningful if you go

967
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:38,239
listen to the talk I did on Genesis versus atheists

968
01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:41,000
and Pagans, I talk about this. If you listen to

969
01:13:41,039 --> 01:13:44,760
the talk I did about Aaron Aus's anti Gnostic work

970
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:48,520
against heresies. If you go listen to my against Gnoscissism talk,

971
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:51,960
I outline like ten things that set us off against

972
01:13:52,399 --> 01:13:55,159
the world religions and against the Pagans and the Gnostics.

973
01:13:56,119 --> 01:13:59,319
So the zeitgy shit doesn't work, dude, because literally we

974
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:05,520
havemultiple distinctives that no other religions have. And just saying that, well,

975
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:10,960
there's another religion that has a similar idea of the

976
01:14:11,039 --> 01:14:14,960
God's birthing a world out of sexual intercourse. That's not creation.

977
01:14:15,359 --> 01:14:19,720
We don't teach that, and that's not similar. Well, there's

978
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:22,199
a there's a kind of weird triad in some religion.

979
01:14:22,239 --> 01:14:25,479
I heard one time. The Vedic texts have a try

980
01:14:25,600 --> 01:14:28,880
that triad is nothing like what we teach. What we

981
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:33,399
teach is nothing like a triad in Plato, it's not

982
01:14:33,479 --> 01:14:41,560
anything like it. As Basil says, the one is he

983
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:42,119
not it?

984
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:46,119
Speaker 1: All? Right?

985
01:14:46,199 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 3: Next we see that again, this dialectic of perfection being

986
01:14:49,600 --> 01:14:53,720
unity is a philosophic assumption that is not there's no

987
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,720
self evident truth to that it's not self evident that

988
01:14:57,920 --> 01:15:01,840
unity is somehow some higher ontolage go better state on

989
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:04,960
what basis. But as you see, with all these guys

990
01:15:05,279 --> 01:15:09,199
who are especially Aristitilian, they've never thought to question paradigms

991
01:15:09,239 --> 01:15:11,720
and presuppositions. They don't know what I mean. You would

992
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:14,840
think Aristotilians might know about what a transcendental argument is,

993
01:15:15,079 --> 01:15:17,680
given the fact that the metaphysics makes a transtal argument,

994
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:22,000
but they don't actually know about presubpositional thought and questioning presubositions.

995
01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:24,760
And that's why they never win these debates, and they

996
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,319
never will unless they start learning what I talk about.

997
01:15:31,600 --> 01:15:36,439
So we see the assumptions of neutrality, the assumptions of

998
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:39,720
the idea that well, we all know what existence is, right,

999
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:42,960
so I can start by talking about everything exists, right,

1000
01:15:43,199 --> 01:15:47,680
everything that is exists? Oh do we really now? In

1001
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:51,920
my worldview? Everything that exists in this world is created

1002
01:15:54,039 --> 01:15:59,520
in your worldview? It's not so existence itself is completely

1003
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:03,680
different from your view to mind, they're not unifical terms

1004
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:06,520
just because it's the same vowels coming out of our mouths.

1005
01:16:09,439 --> 01:16:15,000
It's vastly different existence in Aristotle, not the same thing

1006
01:16:15,159 --> 01:16:18,279
is what it means in Christian theology. For us, all

1007
01:16:18,399 --> 01:16:21,279
that exists is made by God. And what is Paul

1008
01:16:21,319 --> 01:16:24,880
say and Colossians. It's held in being. It subsists in

1009
01:16:25,079 --> 01:16:32,119
the logos. It's not pre existing eternal matter. It's not

1010
01:16:32,159 --> 01:16:40,039
premia material. It's created matter, created forms that have their

1011
01:16:40,239 --> 01:16:43,399
meaning and their grounding in the logi, the logo, the

1012
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:48,000
logi in the logos. Why is that? Because everything that

1013
01:16:48,079 --> 01:16:51,359
exists in the world is triadic from the Father, through

1014
01:16:51,399 --> 01:16:54,199
the Son and the Spirit. Everything the world was created

1015
01:16:54,239 --> 01:17:01,159
that way, redemption happened that way. That's basal dictum. So

1016
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:06,000
being and existence are not self evident terms that don't

1017
01:17:06,079 --> 01:17:10,640
come theory laden. They're not neutral terms that are self interpreted.

1018
01:17:11,359 --> 01:17:18,880
They are theory laden terms and claims, he says being,

1019
01:17:19,239 --> 01:17:27,199
I say, what do you mean created? Uncreated? They're not

1020
01:17:27,399 --> 01:17:32,840
unifical terms. But every attempt to approach these goofy philosophical

1021
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:37,720
systems and import too much of them makes this mistake.

1022
01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:41,319
I need to do a talk just on this and

1023
01:17:41,399 --> 01:17:43,800
hammer at home. I'm going to call it Jerusalem versus Athens.

1024
01:17:49,640 --> 01:17:52,119
So no Greeks taught creation, No Greeks taught that creation

1025
01:17:52,319 --> 01:17:54,479
was a free act by a personal God. No Greeks

1026
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,920
taught that God is personal for them. It's ultimate reality

1027
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:01,680
is impersonal. Now, once any has made this concession that

1028
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:04,960
ultimate reality is impersonal, they've already lost a debate. It's

1029
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:08,359
over because it means that chaos ultimately is what rules

1030
01:18:08,399 --> 01:18:10,600
and reigns. And you could say, well, it's not. Chaos

1031
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:13,800
is a bunch of abstract principles. A bunch of abstract

1032
01:18:14,159 --> 01:18:17,680
principles can't string together all the different abstract principles to

1033
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:21,399
be coherent. How does law? How does the law of

1034
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:23,800
logic relate to the principle of love in the world?

1035
01:18:25,640 --> 01:18:27,680
How does the How do those two different things relate

1036
01:18:27,720 --> 01:18:31,479
to the concept of a soul or a self? How

1037
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:35,239
do those three things relate to the concept of past, present,

1038
01:18:35,279 --> 01:18:41,319
and future? They don't. They're just abstract categories that are

1039
01:18:41,359 --> 01:18:45,319
placeholders in the system that don't really have any real

1040
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:47,920
relation to one another, unless we just assume that they do.

1041
01:18:49,119 --> 01:18:52,960
But if there's an all knowing, provident God who's omniscience,

1042
01:18:54,319 --> 01:18:57,039
then he's the one who strings all these things together

1043
01:18:57,159 --> 01:18:59,439
and holds them in being, as Paul says, and makes

1044
01:18:59,600 --> 01:19:02,640
sense of all these different categories and gives us the

1045
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:10,159
possibility for them all relating in a meaningful way. The

1046
01:19:10,239 --> 01:19:15,119
divine mind is needed then in this system to hold

1047
01:19:15,159 --> 01:19:21,520
these categories together and to make sense of them. Now,

1048
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:24,920
as we move on to a little more difficult concepts

1049
01:19:25,079 --> 01:19:27,720
in this Now, by the way, we've come all the

1050
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:29,680
way up from the beginning of creation to man and

1051
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:32,399
the incarnation, let's talk about the end of history as well,

1052
01:19:32,479 --> 01:19:35,800
because the coming of Christ's and history and the resurrection,

1053
01:19:36,399 --> 01:19:41,359
that's the definitive signaling of the meaning of all history, past, president,

1054
01:19:41,399 --> 01:19:44,239
and future. So it's an aschatologe. When Christ is resurrected

1055
01:19:44,319 --> 01:19:48,279
is an eschaological event. I'm not saying there's not an

1056
01:19:48,359 --> 01:19:50,079
end of the world. There is, but we are now

1057
01:19:50,159 --> 01:19:55,680
living in the Church age, the Messianic age, right, and

1058
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:02,399
that same covenant has been open to the Gentiles. Point being,

1059
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:12,840
the body is good, you know all these dumb Greek systems.

1060
01:20:13,159 --> 01:20:16,720
The body is not good. Now, Aristotle trusts to temper this, right.

1061
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:18,600
Aristotle doesn't have a problem with the body, so he

1062
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:22,079
departs from Plato's gnostic nonsense. He says, they know the

1063
01:20:22,119 --> 01:20:27,000
body is not that bad, right, There's not eternal life

1064
01:20:27,039 --> 01:20:29,039
in the body. You just kind of die, and then

1065
01:20:29,119 --> 01:20:33,960
your monad soul seeds. They go off into another being

1066
01:20:34,119 --> 01:20:38,880
that forms again, you know, maybe something cyclical. Right, we

1067
01:20:38,960 --> 01:20:44,920
don't exactly know how this works, but you know, you

1068
01:20:45,079 --> 01:20:49,079
go back into nature and then nature forms another kid

1069
01:20:49,399 --> 01:20:52,399
down the road. So there's no eternal life in this system,

1070
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:55,319
and there's not a god in this system that actually

1071
01:20:55,359 --> 01:20:58,119
relates to the world. The God of Aristotle is thought,

1072
01:20:58,199 --> 01:21:04,399
thinking itself. Now pause for a minute. Thought thinking itself, self, referential,

1073
01:21:04,479 --> 01:21:09,800
abstract thought is the ultimate good in God here. Well,

1074
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:13,479
that sounds a lot like Greek philosophy, doesn't it. So

1075
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:18,520
Aristotle's God is just the personified Greek It's just the

1076
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:23,920
ultimate idea of Greek philosophy. What's the highest possible goal? Well,

1077
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:28,319
it's like thinking, man, well, what could be higher than

1078
01:21:28,359 --> 01:21:35,560
thinking thought thinking itself? Which is total nonsense. So anyway,

1079
01:21:36,199 --> 01:21:39,600
so again, it's a god who's not related to you.

1080
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:42,960
He's unknowable. He doesn't have any direct interaction in this world.

1081
01:21:45,680 --> 01:21:48,760
He's either a one unmoved mover or fifty five unmoved movers.

1082
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:56,640
What similarity is? Does that bear to Exodus three fourteen

1083
01:21:56,720 --> 01:22:02,000
I am that I am none? Is it true that

1084
01:22:02,079 --> 01:22:05,319
God is the first cause in an unmove mover. Yeah,

1085
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:10,239
but it's true because Christianity is true and that God

1086
01:22:10,359 --> 01:22:14,920
is personal, not an impersonal abstract force. Now, why do

1087
01:22:14,960 --> 01:22:16,840
all these pagans do this? I'm gonna get you here's

1088
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:19,560
the real secret to this. That's because, guess what, you're

1089
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:23,600
not accountable to a number. You're not accountable to gravity.

1090
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:26,319
You don't have to give an account of your life

1091
01:22:27,439 --> 01:22:31,159
to gravity, to the number seven. So that's why they

1092
01:22:31,199 --> 01:22:36,319
love abstract principles. But if there's a personal God, you've

1093
01:22:36,319 --> 01:22:38,199
got to give an account to your life, and you

1094
01:22:38,359 --> 01:22:43,119
have duties and obligations and so forth, and there's a

1095
01:22:43,199 --> 01:22:46,199
moral law that you have to follow to take commandments matter.

1096
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:59,319
In other words, it would require repentance, it would require

1097
01:23:00,039 --> 01:23:03,000
a change of mind, metanoia, and a change of worldview.

1098
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:19,159
In this view, although it makes a big hubub about Tilos,

1099
01:23:20,399 --> 01:23:26,039
there's actually not an overriding Tulos. There's tilos in objects.

1100
01:23:26,159 --> 01:23:29,039
The acorn becomes the tree right in Aristotle in the

1101
01:23:29,119 --> 01:23:33,279
four causes. But actually, in reality that's just from the

1102
01:23:33,359 --> 01:23:38,199
human vantage point. Do we know that an acorn really

1103
01:23:38,239 --> 01:23:41,920
possesses tilos in the overall universal scheme of things? No,

1104
01:23:42,079 --> 01:23:48,600
we don't. So really, tilos is a purely subjective human

1105
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:51,439
advantage point category for things. It's not a thing actually

1106
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:55,119
in things, because there's not an overriding Telos to the universe. Now,

1107
01:23:55,199 --> 01:23:57,039
later on the you know, like Thomas, they will try

1108
01:23:57,079 --> 01:23:59,520
to take the telos argument and make it into a

1109
01:23:59,600 --> 01:24:03,960
teleogical argument for all of reality. If I mean, if

1110
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:09,880
you understand, you could make an an a transcendental tilos argument.

1111
01:24:10,399 --> 01:24:13,079
A transcendental form of the teleological argument would be valid.

1112
01:24:14,039 --> 01:24:17,560
But the problem with just making a bare teleological argument

1113
01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:23,159
assumes that tilos is a self evident, neutral, uninterpreted term,

1114
01:24:23,399 --> 01:24:25,920
just like we saw earlier with being in existence, And

1115
01:24:26,039 --> 01:24:26,279
it's not.

1116
01:24:27,039 --> 01:24:27,079
Speaker 4: So.

1117
01:24:27,119 --> 01:24:28,880
Speaker 3: Remember when I started quizzing, if you heard the debate,

1118
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:30,880
I started asking him, now, wait a minute, so tell

1119
01:24:30,920 --> 01:24:33,479
me how you got to this conclusion on your self

1120
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:35,840
evident maxims? Which ones did you kind of build up on?

1121
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:38,319
Where does it start? And how do you start building

1122
01:24:38,359 --> 01:24:40,840
this system? And what does he do? He appeals to

1123
01:24:40,960 --> 01:24:44,640
things that he thinks he thought were just obvious and

1124
01:24:44,720 --> 01:24:47,640
self evident. Oh, but they are not. And that's the key.

1125
01:24:48,119 --> 01:24:50,600
So when you start talking about oh well, I look

1126
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:52,399
out at the world and I start reasoning about the

1127
01:24:52,439 --> 01:24:55,279
world no reason, and you look out at the world

1128
01:24:55,520 --> 01:24:59,840
so experience sense data, and then you start talking about

1129
01:24:59,840 --> 01:25:01,520
how the hylomorphisms out there.

1130
01:25:01,439 --> 01:25:01,760
Speaker 9: In the world.

1131
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:03,520
Speaker 3: Oh wait a minute, now you're bringing in new terms

1132
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:06,359
and ideas that you thought were just self evident and obvious.

1133
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:09,760
But these are actually other ideas that are not yet

1134
01:25:10,039 --> 01:25:17,600
vindicated or justified. So then he starts bringing in I'm

1135
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:19,680
trying to remember the other things he started repealing to.

1136
01:25:19,760 --> 01:25:21,479
He appealed to all these Oh, he says, well, it's

1137
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:29,079
just part of being a human. Really human. You think

1138
01:25:29,119 --> 01:25:32,600
that's a neutral term that doesn't come as in a

1139
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:38,800
theory laden way. Human doesn't come to us as part

1140
01:25:38,840 --> 01:25:44,640
of a worldview. It's a self evident term and idea. No,

1141
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:49,880
what does human mean to me? It's completely different than

1142
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:53,119
what it means to the Aristilian. To him, it's just

1143
01:25:53,239 --> 01:25:57,680
a vegetative form that comes from natural processes and then

1144
01:25:58,239 --> 01:26:04,760
disintegrates into dirt. For us, human means made in the

1145
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:09,000
image of God, a nature restored by the incarnation and

1146
01:26:09,159 --> 01:26:15,319
destined to live in all eternity with God. So completely

1147
01:26:15,359 --> 01:26:17,920
different ideas about what human means. So human is not

1148
01:26:18,119 --> 01:26:21,680
self evident and that's the root of this problem here

1149
01:26:21,800 --> 01:26:25,039
of all of these systems that are classical foundationalists, is

1150
01:26:25,079 --> 01:26:29,520
that they all assume neutrality, and they assume that ideas, concepts,

1151
01:26:29,760 --> 01:26:37,960
terms are theory neutral and system neutral and don't require interpretation.

1152
01:26:38,439 --> 01:26:46,439
They're interpretively neutral. They're not none of them are. Can't

1153
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:56,399
you see that again? Nature, it's not self evident to

1154
01:26:56,479 --> 01:27:01,359
everybody what nature is, because it's going to be dependent

1155
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:08,319
on the rest of my worldview what nature means. So

1156
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:12,319
he immediately starts on the spill of all of these

1157
01:27:12,359 --> 01:27:18,199
different categories and concepts and very abuse metaphysical baggage things

1158
01:27:19,479 --> 01:27:23,039
that he acts like, we're just well, it's obviously we

1159
01:27:23,119 --> 01:27:25,479
know what existence is, right, it's the things that exist

1160
01:27:26,399 --> 01:27:31,319
what No, it's not obvious, right, And so what happens

1161
01:27:31,359 --> 01:27:33,039
if he had been more schooled in philosophy in the

1162
01:27:33,079 --> 01:27:37,159
history of philosophy, he would realize that actually, as philosophy developed,

1163
01:27:37,720 --> 01:27:41,920
people begin to question those assumptions. Now I'm not saying

1164
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:45,319
that Hume and these different enlightened characters are ultimately correct,

1165
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:49,199
but they are ultimately correct to on the basis of

1166
01:27:49,279 --> 01:27:54,720
classical foundationalism start to question assumptions and start to ask, hey,

1167
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,960
wait a minute, do we really know if existence is

1168
01:27:58,119 --> 01:28:02,039
a neutral term? It seems to kind of go along

1169
01:28:02,079 --> 01:28:06,079
with a bunch of other baggage and your philosophy. Oh, absolutely,

1170
01:28:06,359 --> 01:28:10,119
of course it does. This is why you can't appeal

1171
01:28:10,199 --> 01:28:12,920
to some kind of generic being argument for God. You

1172
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:19,000
can't appeal to some generic Tilos concept, because Tilos is

1173
01:28:19,159 --> 01:28:22,880
only possible if the God that we believe in exists.

1174
01:28:23,359 --> 01:28:27,000
That's why this apologetic is better. It's a much stronger

1175
01:28:27,199 --> 01:28:34,520
argument than the weak SOI tomist arguments, the five ways

1176
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:40,359
of SOI. Those arguments are weak because they assume neutrality.

1177
01:28:41,199 --> 01:28:47,279
They assume that beliefs and terms aren't theory laden. But

1178
01:28:47,359 --> 01:28:58,800
guess what they are. So being, human, nature, all these

1179
01:28:58,880 --> 01:29:01,479
things he thinks he's a apeealing to that are self evident. No,

1180
01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:07,520
they're not. And I absolutely nailed him on that in

1181
01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:13,159
the debate. In fact, he wasn't ready for that. He was,

1182
01:29:21,159 --> 01:29:26,520
all right, let's see being as not unifical, existence, human

1183
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:38,159
These terms are not self evident, he says, change in motion. Yeah, okay,

1184
01:29:38,199 --> 01:29:40,880
So it doesn't make sense to say, oh, I remember telos,

1185
01:29:40,920 --> 01:29:44,640
that's what we're talking about. So telos isn't theory neutral. Well,

1186
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:50,359
it just means purpose. Yeah, purpose is not theory neutral obviously,

1187
01:29:51,880 --> 01:29:57,000
And this is a key criticism of Aerosol himself. We're

1188
01:29:57,039 --> 01:29:59,279
not talking about this guy, but let's look at Aerosol himself.

1189
01:29:59,600 --> 01:30:03,720
If change and motion are eternal, well, actually, this is

1190
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:07,279
a good critique of the unmoved mover first cause argument.

1191
01:30:07,359 --> 01:30:09,520
So if you reason back to why there has to

1192
01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:14,960
be a first cause, no, there doesn't. And Aristotle's first

1193
01:30:15,039 --> 01:30:18,239
cause is not the same thing as the Christian ex nilo,

1194
01:30:18,840 --> 01:30:22,319
So really it doesn't work because of change in motion

1195
01:30:22,399 --> 01:30:27,119
are eternal, then there is no beginning. Aristol didn't think

1196
01:30:27,159 --> 01:30:31,439
that the world had a beginning. It's eternal matter that's

1197
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:38,000
formed into the forms that are here presently. And so,

1198
01:30:38,119 --> 01:30:42,880
in other words, you can't utilize Aristotle's for causes because

1199
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:46,359
in Aristotle's system, when you reason back to the unmoved mover,

1200
01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:54,640
there's no efficient cause. So Aristotol's ugmentation is awful for apologetics,

1201
01:30:54,720 --> 01:31:00,079
it's terrible. There's no efficient cause in the beginning on

1202
01:31:00,119 --> 01:31:04,680
the part of the unmove mover. Now why do we

1203
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:13,680
say that, because again, what are the four causes material?

1204
01:31:14,800 --> 01:31:18,560
And this would be like matter premia, materia, the substance,

1205
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:23,279
the stuffiness, right, the formal cause, all right, this is

1206
01:31:23,359 --> 01:31:28,399
what impresses the form that an object has. So we've

1207
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:33,760
got the clay, we stamp it with the rectangle square.

1208
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:36,119
It's a brick. It becomes a brick, all right, that's

1209
01:31:38,039 --> 01:31:43,560
formal cause. The efficient cause is me doing it. The

1210
01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:49,119
final cause is the telos. Now, the unmoved mover isn't

1211
01:31:49,199 --> 01:31:55,960
really an efficient cause. I know that the Thomas want

1212
01:31:56,039 --> 01:32:00,960
to make him that, but he's not really because there's

1213
01:32:01,000 --> 01:32:06,479
not a beginning in this system, because it's not creation

1214
01:32:06,640 --> 01:32:09,840
x neilo. It's eternal matter being formed into something that

1215
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:13,359
doesn't make any sense, eternal matter being given form. That's

1216
01:32:13,399 --> 01:32:17,880
a change in things. If there's a change in things,

1217
01:32:18,680 --> 01:32:25,640
then there's not a beginning. There's not a beginning because

1218
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:30,680
it's eternal. You see, eternal matter is changed. It's nonsense.

1219
01:32:32,760 --> 01:32:45,000
There you go. And this is because, of course, in

1220
01:32:45,119 --> 01:32:49,239
Aristotle he wanted to deal with change and identity over change.

1221
01:32:49,279 --> 01:32:55,239
That's a central problem in Aristotle. So there's not really

1222
01:32:55,279 --> 01:32:58,119
an unmoved mover who can function as the efficient cause

1223
01:32:58,199 --> 01:33:00,640
of things at the beginning of time. And there's no

1224
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:03,560
reason to assume by reasoning back through a chain of

1225
01:33:03,680 --> 01:33:07,640
causes that there had to be one andover. Maybe there's

1226
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:14,119
fifty five unmoved movers see and Aristotle contradicts himself on

1227
01:33:14,199 --> 01:33:17,359
that point. So why anybody would want to try to

1228
01:33:17,520 --> 01:33:25,520
co opt this argument? It's beyond me. It's dumb. There's

1229
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:28,680
not really Telos in the world because there's not a

1230
01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:34,159
singular divine mind that providentially orders and regulates and relates

1231
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:39,840
all things to each other. Therefore, Telos cannot be applicable

1232
01:33:40,399 --> 01:33:43,640
to the universe as a whole. It's a subjective human

1233
01:33:44,159 --> 01:33:49,760
predicate of phenomena in their experience. For example, is ninety

1234
01:33:49,840 --> 01:33:55,039
degrees a property in the object? For Aristotle he has

1235
01:33:55,079 --> 01:33:58,800
to say yes because of islomorphism, because of objects being

1236
01:33:58,840 --> 01:34:07,439
basically simple unity, ninety degrees is actually in that object? No,

1237
01:34:07,600 --> 01:34:10,479
come on. And then when we think about more abstract

1238
01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:13,239
mathematical things like Mandelbrot sets. Oh wait, now, wait a minute,

1239
01:34:13,279 --> 01:34:18,119
where are they? Remember we wanted to squish everything in

1240
01:34:18,359 --> 01:34:21,239
Plato's ideal realm into the here and the now, into

1241
01:34:21,319 --> 01:34:24,720
the objects. Where is a Mandelbrot set out there in

1242
01:34:24,760 --> 01:34:29,640
the world nowhere? So that doesn't work. And actually, in

1243
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:31,640
one of my grad classes I had. I had two

1244
01:34:32,239 --> 01:34:36,520
grad Aristotle professors who were high high level dudes, doctor

1245
01:34:36,560 --> 01:34:40,279
Robinson and doctor Goggins, And under doctor Goggins, I did

1246
01:34:40,319 --> 01:34:42,359
a paper and he specialized in a lot of these

1247
01:34:42,439 --> 01:34:49,479
ancient mathematicians theories on number and so really high levels

1248
01:34:50,319 --> 01:34:54,279
specialist dudes debate this problem in Aristotle in relationship to

1249
01:34:54,479 --> 01:35:01,520
number because how do numbers actually only exist in particulars? Yeah, exactly.

1250
01:35:01,760 --> 01:35:05,199
It doesn't make any sense because they don't, because this

1251
01:35:05,359 --> 01:35:15,199
is wrong. How are numbers only in particulars? Are Mandel

1252
01:35:15,199 --> 01:35:17,479
brought sets only in some particular out in the world

1253
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:20,520
that's retarded? Ninety degrees is not just in your head,

1254
01:35:21,159 --> 01:35:26,319
and it's not just an angle on an object, and

1255
01:35:26,399 --> 01:35:30,319
it's not just a word. There's nothing in your brain

1256
01:35:30,520 --> 01:35:35,720
that cars corresponds to ninety degrees when you're speaking, I'm

1257
01:35:35,720 --> 01:35:39,119
not talking about ninety eight degrees the band No Boy banter.

1258
01:35:39,399 --> 01:35:41,239
It's about ninety degrees on the edge of an object.

1259
01:35:43,399 --> 01:35:45,159
So at this point, if we look at numbers in

1260
01:35:45,159 --> 01:35:47,760
relationship to aerosol, we're back at Plato. And again this

1261
01:35:47,880 --> 01:35:50,600
is a problem because for Aristotle we're just kind of

1262
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:54,199
locating universals and abstractions in the particulars he thought that

1263
01:35:54,239 --> 01:35:58,800
would solve the issue doesn't. Another reason this doesn't work

1264
01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:03,119
for us is again because of this starting point of

1265
01:36:03,159 --> 01:36:07,199
it being classical foundationalism and ultimately appealing to since experience.

1266
01:36:07,560 --> 01:36:09,039
And that's why I asked this guy, how'd you come

1267
01:36:09,079 --> 01:36:11,960
to the system? Oh, I read Parmenides and Aristotle and

1268
01:36:12,000 --> 01:36:17,319
Confucius or whoever. So he, by his since experience, read

1269
01:36:17,359 --> 01:36:20,119
these books, and then he reasoned to these things about

1270
01:36:20,119 --> 01:36:23,239
all this metaphysical stuff that he thought was self evident.

1271
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:27,079
None of it's self evident. We've shown that very clearly here.

1272
01:36:28,159 --> 01:36:30,880
And so at this point the system I think that

1273
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:35,600
he was presenting was just completely dysynthicate, degrading and breaking down.

1274
01:36:36,640 --> 01:36:38,640
And I don't think he was even catching the arguments

1275
01:36:38,640 --> 01:36:43,880
and the force of the arguments. The next problem that

1276
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:46,399
we could see in Aristotle is ethics. Me and this guy,

1277
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:48,920
we didn't get to the ethical arm of debate. But

1278
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:50,840
I would have made the same type of argument if

1279
01:36:50,880 --> 01:36:52,880
he had gone with the golden mean. The golden mean

1280
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:54,840
can't be a basis for ethics because the golden mean

1281
01:36:54,880 --> 01:36:57,239
assumes that you have a basis to know what is

1282
01:36:57,319 --> 01:37:01,880
in between two extremes, saying you demonea or golden mean

1283
01:37:02,319 --> 01:37:05,840
it doesn't work. How do you know what the middle is?

1284
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:09,279
If you don't know what the extremes are, obviously come on.

1285
01:37:10,199 --> 01:37:22,359
So it's subjective, it's relativistic. The Arisitilian God is ultimately deistic,

1286
01:37:23,039 --> 01:37:30,239
so he's not an efficient cause the Arisitylian God is unknowable.

1287
01:37:30,600 --> 01:37:32,319
You don't have a relationship with him because he's thought

1288
01:37:32,359 --> 01:37:36,840
thinking itself. He's not related to you. And thus none

1289
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:39,880
of this works for intelligent design because the God in

1290
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:44,359
this system is unknowable, deistic, not related to this world,

1291
01:37:45,119 --> 01:37:48,399
and he doesn't actually design this world. How dumb to

1292
01:37:48,479 --> 01:37:55,039
try to call opt this for intelligent design? If by

1293
01:37:55,079 --> 01:37:58,760
intelligent design you mean not the orthodox douction of creation.

1294
01:37:59,079 --> 01:38:04,279
Maybe the one in the many argument we got to.

1295
01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:07,239
I argue that the trinity is the only way to

1296
01:38:07,479 --> 01:38:11,159
balance the one and the many. The trying God solves

1297
01:38:11,199 --> 01:38:13,840
this problem of the one and the many. And he said, well,

1298
01:38:13,880 --> 01:38:16,119
how can something be one and many at once? I said, well,

1299
01:38:16,159 --> 01:38:19,640
have you seen numbers? Numbers are one and many at once,

1300
01:38:20,239 --> 01:38:22,600
and there's nothing about a number that's more one than

1301
01:38:22,640 --> 01:38:24,239
it is many or more many than it is one.

1302
01:38:25,159 --> 01:38:28,199
A number can constitute a unity and a multiplicity at

1303
01:38:28,239 --> 01:38:30,760
the exact same time, in perfect balance. And that's an image,

1304
01:38:32,000 --> 01:38:35,520
an analogy to the trendy. It's not exactly the same

1305
01:38:35,560 --> 01:38:43,439
as the trinity. Nothing is. But it's an analogy. So

1306
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:50,119
Tilos didn't work. It's a human Oh, that's right. Tilos is,

1307
01:38:50,199 --> 01:38:54,039
by the way, in Aristotle, an analogy on the basis

1308
01:38:54,119 --> 01:38:57,079
of human architects. Right. So if you have artificial objects

1309
01:38:57,119 --> 01:39:00,600
in Aristotol, which would be like if you created a tool, right,

1310
01:39:00,840 --> 01:39:05,159
it has a purpose. And so you've taken matter, you've

1311
01:39:05,279 --> 01:39:07,119
stamped it with the form of a brick, and it

1312
01:39:07,159 --> 01:39:09,039
becomes a tool to build the house, and you build

1313
01:39:09,079 --> 01:39:12,159
the house out of the bricks, and so the brick

1314
01:39:12,239 --> 01:39:16,560
thus has purpose. Okay, But in aristotle system, the world

1315
01:39:16,600 --> 01:39:18,760
as a whole doesn't have that purpose because it's not

1316
01:39:18,920 --> 01:39:21,720
created from the mind of a god who is providential,

1317
01:39:22,119 --> 01:39:26,000
who directly relates to this world. No, he doesn't believe that.

1318
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:35,319
So Telos does not work on a universal scale. Highlomorphism

1319
01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:39,399
is absolute simplicity applied to objects in the world. It

1320
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:43,479
thus breaks down. It doesn't work as an epistemic system

1321
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:52,359
because our epistemology. I got into this with a little

1322
01:39:52,399 --> 01:39:55,079
bit with the classical theist when we reason about objects

1323
01:39:56,680 --> 01:39:58,720
and we try to make sense of things in the

1324
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:04,199
world in the Ariscitilian scheme and in the platonics are

1325
01:40:04,279 --> 01:40:07,359
in the atomistic scheme to a degree, you have the

1326
01:40:07,479 --> 01:40:12,960
idea that I abstract from the particular objects the phantasm

1327
01:40:13,079 --> 01:40:17,640
in my passive intellect, and then from that I somehow

1328
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:22,319
know or have access to a universal. Doesn't work because

1329
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:25,840
no matter how many particulars you add up, you're not

1330
01:40:26,039 --> 01:40:32,760
ever obtaining to universal, because the universals aren't just five, ten,

1331
01:40:32,920 --> 01:40:36,359
twenty particulars added up together. And the empiricists were right

1332
01:40:36,439 --> 01:40:40,039
to critique this because this system starts with empirical data

1333
01:40:40,920 --> 01:40:46,119
and tries to reason up to universals. Not possible on

1334
01:40:46,319 --> 01:40:49,640
this scheme. And you could say, well, yeah, but what

1335
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:52,039
about in the tomistic scheme, where the universals and the

1336
01:40:52,159 --> 01:40:54,039
forms and the ideas of things are in the essence

1337
01:40:54,079 --> 01:40:57,600
of God. Yeah, exactly, But what you're abstracting isn't the

1338
01:40:57,680 --> 01:40:59,640
essence of God. And in this world you never have

1339
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:02,479
thats to the essence of God. You only have access

1340
01:41:02,560 --> 01:41:07,199
to created likenesses, created analogies and analogy and or created effects,

1341
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:13,399
never to the actual essence of God. So it doesn't

1342
01:41:13,479 --> 01:41:16,399
work to ground knowledge in the divine ideas in the

1343
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:21,479
essence of God. It's self refuting because of absolute don't

1344
01:41:21,479 --> 01:41:33,159
suppose to say, Okay, I think I've hit I think

1345
01:41:33,159 --> 01:41:36,600
I've hit all the problems in Aristotle and how it

1346
01:41:38,199 --> 01:41:49,439
applies to dudes made up pagan system. Okay, So I

1347
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:51,239
think that's pretty much most of what I wanted to

1348
01:41:51,279 --> 01:41:54,840
get to. There's more areas in Aristotle that we could critique.

1349
01:41:57,039 --> 01:42:02,680
My old notes, I've got problems we already touched on.

1350
01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:04,960
The problems of a bunch of different trees. Don't get

1351
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:07,880
you in the general form of a tree. Where do

1352
01:42:07,920 --> 01:42:12,119
you ever get the general idea? You don't Heilomorphism is

1353
01:42:13,279 --> 01:42:18,239
absolute simplicity applied to objects. The ethics are not really

1354
01:42:18,319 --> 01:42:22,079
ethics because we don't know what the golden mean actually is.

1355
01:42:22,680 --> 01:42:26,119
It's just assumed, and then we don't I don't care

1356
01:42:26,119 --> 01:42:28,680
about Aristotle's polus. We're not gonna go into that. So

1357
01:42:31,359 --> 01:42:33,239
so these are the problems that really sort of blatant

1358
01:42:33,239 --> 01:42:37,119
problems in Aristotle. And although his system didn't have every

1359
01:42:37,319 --> 01:42:39,680
aspect of Aristotle. It is good and so relevant to

1360
01:42:39,960 --> 01:42:43,720
to critique and point it out. So that's the critique

1361
01:42:43,720 --> 01:42:48,720
of Aristotle. In hour two of this for subscribers, today's analysis,

1362
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:51,880
I'm going to continue with a fuller critique of Aristotle

1363
01:42:53,199 --> 01:42:56,159
from my notes that are pretty extensive. And what we're

1364
01:42:56,159 --> 01:42:58,119
gonna do is go back once again and we're gonna

1365
01:42:58,119 --> 01:43:00,000
look at the Presocratics and the Ionians, and we're gonna

1366
01:43:00,119 --> 01:43:03,840
trace this up through Aristotle, and we're gonna talk again

1367
01:43:03,880 --> 01:43:07,840
about how similar this is to the far Eastern conceptions

1368
01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:09,920
of monism and so forth. And I'm going to try

1369
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:13,399
to make it, you know, as accessible as possible for

1370
01:43:13,520 --> 01:43:16,560
the subscribers, so it's not too ab tuo s. But

1371
01:43:16,680 --> 01:43:18,520
since this is public, I wanted to address all the

1372
01:43:18,600 --> 01:43:23,479
different possible objections that are out there. So our two

1373
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:32,560
will again be a revisiting for subscribers, a revisiting of Presocratics, Ionians, Promenides,

1374
01:43:33,119 --> 01:43:36,640
and Aristotle and how it can trasts with our worldview.

1375
01:43:39,560 --> 01:43:42,359
So if you want access to that, go to Jay's

1376
01:43:42,359 --> 01:43:45,279
analysis and you can subscribe at the subscription button there

1377
01:43:45,359 --> 01:43:47,920
for the members content. You get access to all the

1378
01:43:48,079 --> 01:43:51,640
great archives and interviews over the years countless talks. Now

1379
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:54,159
there's a vast archive there of awesome stuff. All the

1380
01:43:54,199 --> 01:43:58,520
globalism book series, Tragi and Hope, the Plato talks, all

1381
01:43:58,560 --> 01:44:02,119
of the Republic, all the Bible talks. I mean, just

1382
01:44:03,720 --> 01:44:08,640
a treasure trove of literal, graduate level stuff in multiple

1383
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:12,560
subjects for four months, sixty dollars a year. All these

1384
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:14,840
people bitching about me. Do you understand the gifts that

1385
01:44:14,920 --> 01:44:17,680
I'm giving you here. I'm not bragging about myself. It's

1386
01:44:17,720 --> 01:44:20,680
all a gift from God. But you guys could be

1387
01:44:20,960 --> 01:44:25,000
could be making use of this stuff. I just cover

1388
01:44:25,159 --> 01:44:27,640
these subjects. I covered the books of the big the

1389
01:44:27,720 --> 01:44:34,479
big boys. All right, let's get down here to the

1390
01:44:34,520 --> 01:44:39,800
super chats. And if you're ready for super chat, to

1391
01:44:40,119 --> 01:44:43,600
sens some super chants my super chants. Well, it's just

1392
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:51,560
super chats. So the gods, even in the in the

1393
01:44:52,520 --> 01:44:57,479
most philosophic forms, these systems of the gods and we

1394
01:44:57,680 --> 01:45:02,279
was vikings. It boils down to these very simple problems

1395
01:45:02,319 --> 01:45:07,359
of monism, of dualism, of dialectical tensions, one of the

1396
01:45:07,439 --> 01:45:11,359
many these same critiques. That's the point here. These same

1397
01:45:11,439 --> 01:45:14,880
criticus are applicable to the Pagans, to the Gnostics, to

1398
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:18,479
the atheists, to the materialists, to the far Eastern mystics

1399
01:45:20,319 --> 01:45:24,520
for Eastern religions, and to the goofballs in philosophy one

1400
01:45:24,560 --> 01:45:27,319
oh one who think that the matrix simulation theory, it's

1401
01:45:27,399 --> 01:45:31,760
all the same argument Rose, It's all the same nonsense.

1402
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:37,560
Hesser mentioned a right Ai Howard five bucks. Hesser mentioned

1403
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:40,000
Carnival the other night. Any analysis on that show in

1404
01:45:40,039 --> 01:45:42,520
the future very gnostics shown. Dee, I've heard about it,

1405
01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:49,000
and I have to get to it. I haven't thought

1406
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:51,239
about it, though, I'd have to get to that. My

1407
01:45:51,399 --> 01:45:53,479
mind is getting tired, so I'm having a hard time talking.

1408
01:45:55,199 --> 01:45:57,439
And yes, I'm gonna put the debate. Let me just

1409
01:45:57,479 --> 01:46:00,359
put it in there now, since people keep assing minute.

1410
01:46:01,319 --> 01:46:03,439
And part of the reason I did this recap was

1411
01:46:03,479 --> 01:46:08,279
again because the Discord audio kept cutting out after hour

1412
01:46:08,439 --> 01:46:12,760
two when I was making my really nuclear arguments, my

1413
01:46:12,880 --> 01:46:17,760
really based arguments, when it was getting pure fire. Is when,

1414
01:46:17,880 --> 01:46:22,960
of course Discord started messing up. So let me go

1415
01:46:23,079 --> 01:46:31,000
to Daily Prap and let me pull up. It looks

1416
01:46:31,039 --> 01:46:36,000
like it's still there. Somebody said they couldn't access it. No,

1417
01:46:36,159 --> 01:46:44,600
it's still there. So I'm adding that to the I

1418
01:46:44,680 --> 01:46:46,399
think most of it you can hear. I haven't gone

1419
01:46:46,399 --> 01:46:47,960
back and listened to all of it, but people were

1420
01:46:48,039 --> 01:46:51,680
saying that it's pretty rough. You can kind of make

1421
01:46:51,720 --> 01:46:55,720
out now that you know what I'm saying here, and

1422
01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:58,319
now that you've heard this, now you know the what

1423
01:46:58,439 --> 01:47:00,720
I'm getting at in my arguments, and you'll be able

1424
01:47:00,840 --> 01:47:02,199
if you want to go back and listen to the

1425
01:47:02,239 --> 01:47:06,479
debate with understanding what I was trying to say, even

1426
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:08,520
though every time I would talk it would get cut off.

1427
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:13,640
Now you could you could probably decipher through this Rosetta

1428
01:47:13,720 --> 01:47:17,880
stone what the heck I was trying to argue. So

1429
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:21,159
I put it in there, and then I'll put the debate.

1430
01:47:21,239 --> 01:47:23,159
Here's the debate in the chat if you want it

1431
01:47:23,239 --> 01:47:36,600
that way. Anthony Cavallo ten dollars gibbs for my Warrior

1432
01:47:36,680 --> 01:47:39,880
King and she Yat. Thank you, Anthony. We appreciate that.

1433
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:44,600
But yeah, I'll put I'll put I'll check out Carnival

1434
01:47:44,760 --> 01:47:46,880
by the way, AI, I end to put that on

1435
01:47:46,960 --> 01:47:49,439
the list, and I'll check that out see if it's

1436
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:53,039
worthy of analysis down the road or something. John sand

1437
01:47:53,119 --> 01:48:02,079
for ten bucks, Vulcan Prayer, Penguin, tell Lescope, Heart Punch,

1438
01:48:04,039 --> 01:48:09,840
Hang ten okay, Wizard five New Zealand's five in Zi's

1439
01:48:10,479 --> 01:48:12,199
you have an excellent taste in wigs well, thank you,

1440
01:48:12,399 --> 01:48:17,159
of course I do. What would you expect, Wizard in

1441
01:48:17,319 --> 01:48:20,199
Zis you have excellent taste and wigs well, thank you

1442
01:48:20,319 --> 01:48:34,840
for the extra in zis as a burner. By the way, this,

1443
01:48:35,079 --> 01:48:36,760
do you see how much of this is applicable to

1444
01:48:37,199 --> 01:48:46,079
tumism of what we talked about tonight spec. Seven eighty

1445
01:48:46,239 --> 01:48:50,239
two four nine, watching from sixteen minutes behind, can you

1446
01:48:50,319 --> 01:48:53,960
expand on how monism makes change illusory? You may have

1447
01:48:54,000 --> 01:48:57,000
already covered it, Yeah, Because again I think if you're consistent,

1448
01:48:57,399 --> 01:49:02,359
if everything is truly one, if the real reality that

1449
01:49:02,560 --> 01:49:08,279
exists is one, right, this is Plato, many other religions

1450
01:49:08,319 --> 01:49:15,039
and philosophies, then when we look at this world that's

1451
01:49:15,079 --> 01:49:18,600
not just one, that's many things, and there's change, the

1452
01:49:18,720 --> 01:49:22,600
tendency is to say or to try to explain change

1453
01:49:22,680 --> 01:49:26,920
and distinction as illusory. It starts by saying, well, if

1454
01:49:27,039 --> 01:49:29,680
everything is ultimately one, and then the problems that we have.

1455
01:49:30,439 --> 01:49:36,600
Man's problem is distinction is being many, is interacting with

1456
01:49:36,720 --> 01:49:39,479
other men. We all need to realize we're all one man.

1457
01:49:42,800 --> 01:49:46,279
So the assumption being that the problem of the world

1458
01:49:46,359 --> 01:49:50,520
of mankind is metaphysical, and that problem is that being

1459
01:49:51,000 --> 01:49:55,880
in a realm of particularity, of distinctions, of differences is

1460
01:49:55,960 --> 01:50:01,479
a lesser state of being somehow from this primitive, primordial,

1461
01:50:02,000 --> 01:50:04,920
pre eminent one, this pre eminent Unity, this Great Monad,

1462
01:50:05,640 --> 01:50:10,720
this realm is typically seen then as lesser uh, a

1463
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:15,039
prison place, a creation of an evil demiurge blah blah

1464
01:50:15,039 --> 01:50:22,680
blah blah blah, a simulation, a matrix, dude, whoa. And

1465
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:28,399
so therefore, typically, if that's the case, then what is

1466
01:50:28,479 --> 01:50:32,000
this world. Well, it's like a dream state. It's like

1467
01:50:32,039 --> 01:50:36,000
an illusion. And if it's a dream state illusion, then

1468
01:50:36,039 --> 01:50:38,359
you gotta wake up. You gotta get woke from Bra,

1469
01:50:39,119 --> 01:50:42,000
get woke from this dream state.

1470
01:50:42,159 --> 01:50:42,279
Speaker 1: Bra.

1471
01:50:43,079 --> 01:50:47,279
Speaker 3: If you gotta get woke from the matrix, then the

1472
01:50:47,359 --> 01:50:52,640
matrix isn't real, or at least not the really real,

1473
01:50:53,840 --> 01:50:54,800
like the perfect Monad.

1474
01:50:55,039 --> 01:50:55,159
Speaker 1: Right.

1475
01:50:58,520 --> 01:51:02,600
Speaker 3: This underpins alchemy and her meticism. This underpins bappha met

1476
01:51:04,119 --> 01:51:08,520
because the original Great Monad, the Great Unity, is genderless

1477
01:51:08,880 --> 01:51:13,159
and sexless. I'm not kidding. The occultists believe that, and

1478
01:51:13,279 --> 01:51:15,439
so they actually, many of them actually believed that the

1479
01:51:17,359 --> 01:51:21,479
erasing of the genders is now chemical working. That's why

1480
01:51:21,520 --> 01:51:28,399
the Bapphamet symbol has both male and female organs. It's

1481
01:51:28,439 --> 01:51:34,439
both and and neither. So the great primordial unity was

1482
01:51:34,520 --> 01:51:39,520
not male or female. Again, contrasted with Genesis. And guess what,

1483
01:51:40,239 --> 01:51:44,399
even some of the Eastern fathers got that wrong. Gregory

1484
01:51:44,439 --> 01:51:49,520
of Nissa got that wrong. And Saint Maximus corrects Saint

1485
01:51:49,560 --> 01:51:53,439
Gregory Nissa on that point. So even Saint Gregor Nissa,

1486
01:51:53,520 --> 01:51:56,640
for all of his amazing insights and argumentation, he didn't

1487
01:51:56,640 --> 01:51:58,800
get everything right. That's why we don't go by one

1488
01:51:58,880 --> 01:52:05,079
saint right. He got it wrong about Genesis. He thought

1489
01:52:05,159 --> 01:52:08,960
the fall resulted in the distinctions between male and female,

1490
01:52:09,439 --> 01:52:12,000
but that's not what Genesis says. So he was too

1491
01:52:12,079 --> 01:52:14,159
influenced by origin. He wasn't a heretic like Origin, but

1492
01:52:14,199 --> 01:52:17,239
he was influenced by origin. But it doesn't matter because

1493
01:52:17,279 --> 01:52:21,119
we don't accept the opinion of every single church father.

1494
01:52:21,439 --> 01:52:24,560
Nobody does. There's no person on the there's no religion

1495
01:52:24,680 --> 01:52:27,520
or or church or system and the face of the

1496
01:52:27,560 --> 01:52:30,560
planet that actually does that. Son't, So it's stupid when

1497
01:52:30,560 --> 01:52:32,479
people bring that up. Well, well, one I found a

1498
01:52:32,560 --> 01:52:34,399
church father who teaches this, so I could still hold

1499
01:52:34,399 --> 01:52:36,479
that view. No you can't. It doesn't work like that.

1500
01:52:37,239 --> 01:52:41,279
So that's how change ultimately becomes illusory. And it's actually

1501
01:52:41,359 --> 01:52:47,600
just a nonsensical statement to say that time is eternal,

1502
01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:51,119
that the world is eternal. That doesn't make any sense

1503
01:52:54,039 --> 01:52:57,520
because if it had no beginning, middle, or end, then again,

1504
01:52:58,279 --> 01:53:02,560
the change that we're experiencing is actually not real. It's

1505
01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:09,239
not it's illusory because eternality is in that view static.

1506
01:53:10,039 --> 01:53:14,359
If eternality is static and the one is eternal and

1507
01:53:14,479 --> 01:53:17,359
we're in the realm of change in flux, always moving,

1508
01:53:18,760 --> 01:53:20,880
then change in flux and always moving are not real

1509
01:53:22,720 --> 01:53:28,119
because eternality in the monad is what's real. So this

1510
01:53:28,279 --> 01:53:30,680
is why the far Eastern religions are more consistent and

1511
01:53:30,760 --> 01:53:33,039
they say, yeah, exactly, that's why you got to wake

1512
01:53:33,199 --> 01:53:38,239
up from this deceptive dream realm, which is an illusion,

1513
01:53:39,640 --> 01:53:45,000
and get back to ultimate absolute, get back to thusness,

1514
01:53:45,399 --> 01:53:49,159
get back to the great and personal sea of being

1515
01:53:49,399 --> 01:53:57,039
or whatever. Immerse yourself into the great ocean of non

1516
01:53:57,159 --> 01:54:04,800
being in the thusness. Orthro Nat twenty dollars, thank you worthnet. Yes, no,

1517
01:54:04,880 --> 01:54:06,720
it's fine. I understand that you weren't trying to be

1518
01:54:07,439 --> 01:54:10,680
gossipy and no, I'm not in trouble with anybody. I

1519
01:54:10,840 --> 01:54:14,079
tend a church in good standing and it is canonical,

1520
01:54:14,279 --> 01:54:16,399
and I'm not gonna say anything more than that. And

1521
01:54:16,560 --> 01:54:19,359
thank you for the fan art. Appreciate that much much appreciated,

1522
01:54:20,319 --> 01:54:25,279
Mario callib Calobic. Five dollars. My grandparents were by Kings.

1523
01:54:25,359 --> 01:54:29,279
You are being offensive, Okay, well you could be offended, bra.

1524
01:54:29,680 --> 01:54:33,439
I know you're joking, but thank you for that, Mario. Marco.

1525
01:54:35,119 --> 01:54:37,319
Jethro told fifteen dollars. Well, I hope you guys are

1526
01:54:37,399 --> 01:54:41,159
benefiting from that. Those are some fat super chats, some

1527
01:54:41,319 --> 01:54:44,239
super fats P A A T. Misty Earn's one dollar,

1528
01:54:44,319 --> 01:54:47,520
thank you, Missy, white Top two bucks, Thank you, white Top.

1529
01:54:48,560 --> 01:54:51,600
Lawrence ballinag two bucks. Much appreciated, Lawrence. We always love

1530
01:54:51,680 --> 01:54:55,640
seeing our usual friends, Jethro and Misty and white Top

1531
01:54:55,720 --> 01:55:01,960
and Lawrence n c rid Jay, you have big brained cracker.

1532
01:55:04,880 --> 01:55:10,239
Drew McMahon, thank you, and see Drew McMahon, the father

1533
01:55:10,359 --> 01:55:13,359
of Vince McMahon. Seven dollars. I'm a fan of you

1534
01:55:13,520 --> 01:55:17,119
and mister Pageot. Why did you too, not, Jill? He

1535
01:55:17,199 --> 01:55:22,119
seems to have wanted to. He's I don't think he

1536
01:55:22,239 --> 01:55:24,680
wants a dialogue anymore. He at one time he was

1537
01:55:24,760 --> 01:55:28,800
open to that, but ultimately I think we just decided

1538
01:55:28,840 --> 01:55:32,840
that the approaches are too different. And I think I

1539
01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:36,239
critiqued too many of the people that he regards very highly.

1540
01:55:37,079 --> 01:55:40,920
Obviously I wasn't intentionally critiquing them to get mad, to

1541
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:42,960
get him mad or anything like that. It was just, uh,

1542
01:55:43,600 --> 01:55:46,840
I critique the people that he regards highly, and that

1543
01:55:47,119 --> 01:55:49,039
caused a problem. And then I think from there we

1544
01:55:49,199 --> 01:55:53,840
just decided that we have different approaches to things. So yeah,

1545
01:55:54,079 --> 01:55:56,159
that just kind of fell through the cracks. So I

1546
01:55:56,239 --> 01:55:58,560
don't think there's going to be I mean, I would.

1547
01:55:58,640 --> 01:56:00,520
I'm open to talking to people, but I don't think

1548
01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:02,760
he's interested in having a chat with me. And I'm

1549
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:05,039
not butt hurt. That's fine. I don't have any any

1550
01:56:05,920 --> 01:56:10,079
harsh feelings or anything like that towards him. So that's

1551
01:56:10,119 --> 01:56:15,279
what's up. Gabriel. Are five dollars our thoughts. Logi pre

1552
01:56:15,399 --> 01:56:18,119
existing patterns in the mind of God. Well, if you

1553
01:56:18,199 --> 01:56:20,760
read the essay by Father Fluorowski, which is really good,

1554
01:56:21,079 --> 01:56:24,920
the logi have a an uncreated and a created aspect

1555
01:56:25,000 --> 01:56:28,439
to them. So the logi that are in that are

1556
01:56:28,479 --> 01:56:30,880
all one the logos. If you read Ambiguum seven by

1557
01:56:30,920 --> 01:56:34,000
Saint Maximus, he goes into depth about this, which is

1558
01:56:34,039 --> 01:56:36,199
not very long. I think it's about eight ten pages.

1559
01:56:36,319 --> 01:56:41,039
It's a great chapter Ambiguum seven. So there's a created

1560
01:56:41,079 --> 01:56:44,159
and uncreated aspect to them, and they are thought wills

1561
01:56:44,239 --> 01:56:47,000
of God, they're not the essence of God. And Father

1562
01:56:47,039 --> 01:56:50,479
Fluorofsky in his essay Creation and Creature Hood is what

1563
01:56:50,640 --> 01:56:53,479
you must read. So read Ambiguum seven of Saint Maximus

1564
01:56:53,520 --> 01:56:57,760
and then read Father Fluorowski's Creation and Creature Hood. That's

1565
01:56:57,840 --> 01:57:00,279
one of the best treatments of the low boy the

1566
01:57:00,319 --> 01:57:03,640
logi I've ever seen, and it actually solved a lot

1567
01:57:03,640 --> 01:57:06,840
of problems I had understanding it too. And Tho's other

1568
01:57:07,039 --> 01:57:10,560
guys torst Off, Torstein, Talofsun, these guys have written a

1569
01:57:10,640 --> 01:57:18,399
lot really fat, lengthy books on logos logi. So they

1570
01:57:18,439 --> 01:57:21,439
are pre existing patterns in the mind of God. And

1571
01:57:22,239 --> 01:57:24,600
but what's in our minds is not exactly the same

1572
01:57:24,680 --> 01:57:27,600
as that, because our thoughts are created, so we have

1573
01:57:27,680 --> 01:57:31,479
a created reasoning, we have a created energy. The noetic

1574
01:57:31,640 --> 01:57:34,239
energy in our mind is created, but it is tapping

1575
01:57:34,319 --> 01:57:38,319
into and it is reflecting something that's an uncreated energy.

1576
01:57:38,439 --> 01:57:40,640
And so that's why for us there are analogia. There

1577
01:57:40,680 --> 01:57:44,520
are analogies, but the analogies, the analogia, contrasted to the

1578
01:57:44,600 --> 01:57:47,760
tomiss to the Roman Catholics, is not the essence of God.

1579
01:57:48,119 --> 01:57:50,920
It's the uncreated energies of God. And so Saint Maximus

1580
01:57:51,239 --> 01:57:54,520
and Father Florarovsky and any of the Orthodox writers ever

1581
01:57:54,520 --> 01:57:57,039
who've written on this will make great pains to point

1582
01:57:57,079 --> 01:58:03,159
out that the logoi, the logi are uncreated energies, and

1583
01:58:03,199 --> 01:58:05,800
they're not the essence of God. They're not predeterminations that

1584
01:58:05,880 --> 01:58:09,520
God had to create. They are thought wills of God

1585
01:58:11,000 --> 01:58:14,640
and archetypes and patterns that He willed to do. So

1586
01:58:14,680 --> 01:58:16,279
they're not the same as the essence of God, because

1587
01:58:16,279 --> 01:58:18,640
if they're the same as the essence of God, then

1588
01:58:18,680 --> 01:58:22,640
they must have been created and they are coterminous and eternal,

1589
01:58:24,479 --> 01:58:30,000
which they are not. Alright, let's see, Okay, I don't

1590
01:58:30,000 --> 01:58:33,880
see any more super chats, anymore questions. I'm only gonna

1591
01:58:33,880 --> 01:58:36,119
read super chats because if I read people's questions from

1592
01:58:36,119 --> 01:58:39,079
the chats, it's not fair to the people who super chatted.

1593
01:58:46,199 --> 01:58:54,119
Some pretty gross questions in the gross Marl Kark's five

1594
01:58:54,199 --> 01:58:59,479
dollars an Orthodox church recommendation in Nashville. I don't think

1595
01:58:59,520 --> 01:59:02,640
there's a row Core church. There's one in Tennessee somewhere,

1596
01:59:03,760 --> 01:59:06,720
but it's a good drive from Nashville. I would not

1597
01:59:06,840 --> 01:59:11,600
go to the Greek Orthodox Cathedral in Nashville because I

1598
01:59:11,720 --> 01:59:14,039
asked if they accepted Freemasonry and they said they do,

1599
01:59:14,399 --> 01:59:17,680
so I would not go there, but I would check out.

1600
01:59:17,720 --> 01:59:21,720
You could check out the Antiochian Church in Franklin. Probably

1601
01:59:21,800 --> 01:59:26,640
what would be your best bet The Antiochian Church in Franklin, Tennessee,

1602
01:59:27,279 --> 01:59:31,119
which is right by Nashville. Franklin is right outside Nasville.

1603
01:59:31,239 --> 01:59:35,560
So all right, thank you for that question. There are

1604
01:59:35,600 --> 01:59:41,319
Marl Kirks, and thank you guys again. So the debate

1605
01:59:41,479 --> 01:59:45,600
is here in the show description. Now good luck. If

1606
01:59:45,640 --> 01:59:49,000
you want to try to decipher, you're welcome to The

1607
01:59:49,079 --> 01:59:50,960
first two hours I think are fine. So like, if

1608
01:59:51,000 --> 01:59:52,800
you listen to the first two hours of the exchange,

1609
01:59:53,640 --> 01:59:56,279
my audio is good. It's just that third hour where

1610
01:59:56,319 --> 02:00:00,159
it really kind of starts get getting choppy. But with

1611
02:00:00,439 --> 02:00:02,479
the Rosetta stone that I just gave you in this talk,

1612
02:00:02,600 --> 02:00:07,439
you should be able to decode the argument I'm making

1613
02:00:07,520 --> 02:00:10,000
and I think you'll see that it's a pretty strong argument.

1614
02:00:11,119 --> 02:00:13,600
All right, thank you guys, God Bless. If you want

1615
02:00:13,640 --> 02:00:15,760
to hear more of this talk, I'm going to give

1616
02:00:15,760 --> 02:00:17,880
you a more in depth analysis of the presocratics in

1617
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:22,000
Aristotle and monism and dualism in the hour two chat

1618
02:00:22,119 --> 02:00:25,800
this week for subscribers. And yes, we will do more

1619
02:00:25,960 --> 02:00:28,439
of Julian Huxley. It's just that I got really bogged

1620
02:00:28,479 --> 02:00:32,600
down in the Julian Huxley is boring writing, man, It's boring, boring,

1621
02:00:32,680 --> 02:00:35,600
boring globalism book. So I had to take a break

1622
02:00:35,680 --> 02:00:38,239
this week and we had these debates, so I thought

1623
02:00:38,680 --> 02:00:42,960
revisiting Aristotle would be would be fun, more relevant. But yes,

1624
02:00:43,079 --> 02:00:45,039
next week next the next talk after this will we

1625
02:00:45,319 --> 02:00:48,760
will go back to the rest of Julian Huxley in

1626
02:00:48,840 --> 02:00:51,840
the next part of that book will be public, and

1627
02:00:51,920 --> 02:00:54,880
then we'll do some more Jillian for the subscribers next week.

1628
02:00:54,920 --> 02:00:56,760
Thank you guys for listening. God Bless, have a good night.