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<v Speaker 1>Drivers know what trouble sounds like.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, okay forward, Oh no, no, please.

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<v Speaker 1>No, that's why they get covered from Ireland's soundest car

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<v Speaker 1>insurance provider, Supervalue Insurance.

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<v Speaker 3>Thanks for calling us fin and don't beat yourself up

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<v Speaker 3>about it. Sure, I'm driving ten years and parallel parking.

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<v Speaker 4>Still that isn't me get.

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<v Speaker 1>A quote from Supervalue Car Insurance to get ten percent

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<v Speaker 1>off online and we'll even throw in.

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<v Speaker 2>Forty euro in vouchers.

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<v Speaker 1>Teas and c supply vouchers include two twenty euro or

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<v Speaker 1>forty eurospend. This car insurance is underwritten by AX Insurance, Deck,

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<v Speaker 1>Super Value Financial Services, Stack Trading and Supervalue Insurance is

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<v Speaker 1>regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh hey, it's the guy who runs the local board

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<v Speaker 2>game night hoping someone shows up at the pizza place

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<v Speaker 2>to game Ali Ward boy Hoody. I've wanted to cover

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<v Speaker 2>this one forever and it was all a matter of

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<v Speaker 2>finding the right owl person and we did it. We

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<v Speaker 2>got them. I have so much to say about this

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<v Speaker 2>guest that I'm going to list it in bullet points. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>So they got their p shed at the University of California, Berkeley.

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<v Speaker 2>They have studied owls for over four decades. Their papers

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<v Speaker 2>have been cited nearly fourteen thousand times. I noticed that

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<v Speaker 2>in their papers they thank their wife Katie, and they

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<v Speaker 2>seemed genuinely in love. They came highly recommended by several

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<v Speaker 2>other ologists, including doctor Gavin Jones of the fire Ecology episode.

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<v Speaker 2>I had to beg this owl guest to be on

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<v Speaker 2>this episode because they kept asking if they were right

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<v Speaker 2>for it. I did this by taking a phone call

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<v Speaker 2>as I was driving through the desert and I pulled

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<v Speaker 2>over at a dusty turnout to chat with them for

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<v Speaker 2>like thirty minutes about why I was already obsessed with

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<v Speaker 2>them and their work before we recorded. This guest sent

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<v Speaker 2>me some pictures and owl videos, but there was nothing

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<v Speaker 2>attached to the email. And then I got another one

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<v Speaker 2>five minutes later with the subject line oops, and the

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<v Speaker 2>email just said I got distracted by critters outside my window,

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<v Speaker 2>so I forgot to attach the files. When we finally

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<v Speaker 2>did log onto chat, they were wearing a sweater with

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<v Speaker 2>owls on it. Uh oh. I love them and you

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<v Speaker 2>will too. It's all the field work stories and passion

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<v Speaker 2>of a Mr. Tuddle bat guy with the soothing, mellow

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<v Speaker 2>vibe of the Bryology Moss guest doctor Robin wall Kimmer.

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<v Speaker 2>This one it's an instant classic. We will get to

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<v Speaker 2>that in just a sec. But first, thank you so

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<v Speaker 2>much to all the patrons who sent in their questions.

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<v Speaker 2>You too can support the show on Patreon for a

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<v Speaker 2>mere dollar a month. Thank you to everyone out there

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<v Speaker 2>wearing ologies merch from ologiesmerch dot com. Also, if you

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<v Speaker 2>need shorter, kid friendly episodes that are classroom safe, we

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<v Speaker 2>have them in their own feed for you called Somologies

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<v Speaker 2>SMO l O g i e. S. You can get

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<v Speaker 2>them for free by subscribing to smologies where we get podcasts. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>thanks to everyone who leaves a review for us, which

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<v Speaker 2>helped the show so much. I read them all and

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<v Speaker 2>this week, Unfolded Shoe wrote one that said, the other night,

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<v Speaker 2>I had a dream, a dream in which I was

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<v Speaker 2>in a lecture hall being taught by Professor Ali Ward

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<v Speaker 2>and assistant Professor Jack Black. I don't know if you

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<v Speaker 2>too will ever teach higher education together, but needless to say,

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<v Speaker 2>this is my favorite podcast, Unfolded Shoe. I don't know

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<v Speaker 2>if that will happen, but I am open to it. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>we're doing our first ever live show, not Jack Black.

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<v Speaker 2>He won't be there, but I will. It's on Monday,

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<v Speaker 2>November seventeenth at the Bell House in Brooklyn. But we

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<v Speaker 2>are sold out. But that's good news because it means

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<v Speaker 2>that there might be a bigger tour coming soon. So

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<v Speaker 2>we're gonna pilot it on the seventeenth. We're gonna see

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<v Speaker 2>how it goes. Okay, So let's get into strigiform straight up.

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<v Speaker 2>It comes from the Latin for owl, which comes from

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<v Speaker 2>the Greek for owl. So cozy appunal blankie, sit on

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<v Speaker 2>the porch in the dusk to catch some owl parenting

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<v Speaker 2>facts why they have pokey things on their heads? Facts

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<v Speaker 2>about eyes that left me unable to think about anything else.

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<v Speaker 2>Owl hoots, roosts, nests, perches, Why so silent in the night?

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<v Speaker 2>If you should get an owl box in the yard.

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<v Speaker 2>A high profile case in the news involving owls. How

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<v Speaker 2>researchers study and check up on them, How to boost

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<v Speaker 2>their numbers where they need it, and what happens when

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<v Speaker 2>there are too many owls. Also how one walk can

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<v Speaker 2>change your life With this part one of a two

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<v Speaker 2>part episode with researcher Professor and Gordon Gullion and down

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<v Speaker 2>Chair emeritis at the University of Minnesota, al experts and

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<v Speaker 2>one of the loveliest ologists, strigoformologist, doctor R. J.

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<v Speaker 3>Gutierrez.

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<v Speaker 4>My real name is Ralph Joseph Gutieres, but everybody calls

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<v Speaker 4>me Rocky. I've been called Rocky since before I was born. Apparently.

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<v Speaker 2>Who decided that?

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<v Speaker 3>My mother?

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<v Speaker 4>Actually, my mother said that when she was pregnant with

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<v Speaker 4>me that if it was a girl, she would name

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<v Speaker 4>her Rahenya, and it was a boy, she'd name him

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<v Speaker 4>Ralph and call him Rocky.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh was it a rocky pregnancy?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh? I don't know. She made that decision away before.

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<v Speaker 4>At least that's the family theory anyway, or legend, I

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<v Speaker 4>should say legend.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it suits you. I feel like I think about

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<v Speaker 2>you scrambling up rocky surfaces in the woods looking at nature,

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<v Speaker 2>so it kind of works, right right.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I love this sweater too. Was this a sweater that

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<v Speaker 2>you found her? Was this something that was made for you?

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<v Speaker 4>No, my wife made this sweater. She knitted it. It

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<v Speaker 4>was the first one she made. She's made a bunch

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<v Speaker 4>of sweaters for me beforehand, but she designed this and

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<v Speaker 4>then knitted the spotted owls. Because that's the primary owl

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<v Speaker 4>I work on.

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<v Speaker 2>Now.

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<v Speaker 4>I liked it so much. Ever since then, she's made

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<v Speaker 4>a new sweater for me every year, some species of

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<v Speaker 4>howl I've worked with, or some other species that you

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<v Speaker 4>know we've both seen someplace in the world. And she's

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<v Speaker 4>pretty amazing because she designs the whole thing from on

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<v Speaker 4>a piece of graph paper and then spends a good

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<v Speaker 4>part of the year netting it. There actually works of art.

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<v Speaker 2>So Katie sounds amazing. If she weren't already married, I

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<v Speaker 2>would ask her to marry me. Sounds like the best. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>And now the spotted owl, this is your primary study species.

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<v Speaker 4>That's correct.

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<v Speaker 2>Take me back a little bit too, when owls started

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<v Speaker 2>to sort of capture your attention, how far back does

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<v Speaker 2>it go? Were you a birder or did you start

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<v Speaker 2>looking at other things outside and then an owl flew

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<v Speaker 2>over your head? What happened?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I'm glad you asked that question. I was hoping

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<v Speaker 4>that you would, because this is a story I've never

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<v Speaker 4>told anyone, never shared this with anyone, including my wife.

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<v Speaker 4>And one time I went fishing with two of my

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<v Speaker 4>cousins when I was about it must have been somewhere

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<v Speaker 4>between eight and ten years old, and we went to

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<v Speaker 4>the Real Grande River adjacent to Taos, New Mexico.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is near the eight hundred feet deep Rio

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<v Speaker 2>Grandy Gorge. Think of steep craggy rocks and sage brush

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<v Speaker 2>and the arid American southwest plane rimmed by mountains.

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<v Speaker 4>And on the west is this huge black chasm going

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<v Speaker 4>through this plane. And that's what we call the Rio

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<v Speaker 4>Grandy Box. So we drove to the box and then

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<v Speaker 4>we would hiked down into it. And we got down

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<v Speaker 4>there about evening time. My two cousins says, well, you

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<v Speaker 4>wait here, We're going to go find a campsite. And

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<v Speaker 4>I'm just a little kid, you know. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 4>don't know, you know, one thing from the other. And

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<v Speaker 4>I'm sitting there and it got darker and darker and darker,

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<v Speaker 4>and I'm starting to get more and more afraid and scared,

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<v Speaker 4>and I'm shaking, and all of a sudden it was

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<v Speaker 4>dark then by then, but not a full moon, so

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<v Speaker 4>it was quite a dark night, not a pitch black night,

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<v Speaker 4>but definitely really dark. And I looked up and I

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<v Speaker 4>saw a great horned out I could see the ears

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<v Speaker 4>and the outline of the things. I couldn't make out the definition,

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<v Speaker 4>and I went, wow, you know, that was really interesting.

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<v Speaker 4>And then it's made flew in and sat next to it.

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<v Speaker 4>So then I started thinking, well, I can actually see

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<v Speaker 4>these things and it's dark, and at that time I

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<v Speaker 4>didn't realize I had a very high nighttime visual acuity.

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<v Speaker 4>And so I just then you know, followed the river

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<v Speaker 4>bank and finally found them, you know, John it up

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<v Speaker 4>around the campfire, and I don't know what they were thinking.

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<v Speaker 4>They were just gonna leave me there all night. Oh

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<v Speaker 4>so years later, I was in the army seventeen years old,

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<v Speaker 4>going through combat training, and they put me on guard

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<v Speaker 4>duty out in the middle of the bush and I'm

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<v Speaker 4>sitting there by myself, and I'm getting more and more

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<v Speaker 4>spook because it's darker and darker and darker, and they

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<v Speaker 4>would play tricks on you sneak up, and you know,

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<v Speaker 4>if they caught you, then you know, you get demerits

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<v Speaker 4>or whatever. You know, they yell at you, and so

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<v Speaker 4>I was getting all freaked out, and then I started thinking,

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<v Speaker 4>so wait a second. I could see those owls and

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<v Speaker 4>I could see walking along the creek. I said, there's

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<v Speaker 4>no one going to sneak up on me, I said,

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<v Speaker 4>I can see better than anybody. And then that's when

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<v Speaker 4>I made this big connection with the ability to see

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<v Speaker 4>at night and the owls and what made me really

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<v Speaker 4>gravitate towards owls. And so thereafter, whenever I had a chance,

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<v Speaker 4>I would spend time looking for owls. In college, I

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<v Speaker 4>even would find, say a great horned owl nest, and

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<v Speaker 4>then I'd go in the evening after classes and just

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<v Speaker 4>sit there and watch them, you know, at a distance,

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<v Speaker 4>so I didn't bother them. Eventually, I was had my

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<v Speaker 4>first faculty position at an Ivy League school back East,

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<v Speaker 4>and a paper came out in a jury about the

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<v Speaker 4>relationship between spotted owls and all growth for us.

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<v Speaker 2>In this late nineteen seventies paper, Spotted owl Abundance in

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<v Speaker 2>Young Versus Old Growth Forests Oregon was published in the

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<v Speaker 2>Wildlife Society Bulletin, and it was co authored by Rocky's

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<v Speaker 2>future colleagues, and it begins by addressing that preliminary studies

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<v Speaker 2>indicate that harvest of mature forests in Oregon and elsewhere

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<v Speaker 2>may be causing the spotted owl to decline in numbers,

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<v Speaker 2>and as a result, it says there is considerable interest

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<v Speaker 2>in the habitat requirements of this owl. Whether spotted owls

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<v Speaker 2>can exist in even aged second growth forests created by

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<v Speaker 2>intensive timber management is of particular interest. So more on

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<v Speaker 2>how the spotted owls are doing in a bit but

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<v Speaker 2>rocky headed West. After reading this paper to the forests

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<v Speaker 2>of Humboldt State University to teach and to start up

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<v Speaker 2>more research with some grad students.

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<v Speaker 4>And my very first graduate student wanted to study spotted owls.

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<v Speaker 4>And his name was David Solise, And David was a

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<v Speaker 4>Vietnam Vet. And actually many of my early students and

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<v Speaker 4>assistance were vets. And I was very partial to the

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<v Speaker 4>vets for obvious reasons. So I thought at the time,

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<v Speaker 4>I said, you know, David, I said, this spotted owl

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<v Speaker 4>could be a really big deal. This is we're talking

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<v Speaker 4>nineteen seventy nine. Oh my god, when it wasn't a

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<v Speaker 4>big deal.

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<v Speaker 2>Because now forty five years later, the spotted owl ecology

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<v Speaker 2>is a very big deal. And research began to show

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<v Speaker 2>this steep decline of spotted owls in the Pacific northwestern

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<v Speaker 2>United States, and as a result, these new restrictions on

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<v Speaker 2>logging were imposed to save the old growth forests and

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<v Speaker 2>maintain the ecology laggers did not enjoy this, and apparently

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<v Speaker 2>they hung effigies of dead spotted owls in sawmills. They

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<v Speaker 2>slapped bumper stickers on their trucks that read, I like

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<v Speaker 2>spotted owls fried and kill a spotted owl, save a logger.

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<v Speaker 2>The issue of the spotted owl conservation is drama, and

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<v Speaker 2>it has been for decades, and from what I've been reading,

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<v Speaker 2>it's really politically charged. We're going to get more into

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<v Speaker 2>the standing of how many of these owls are left

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<v Speaker 2>in the wild, what the status is, and what E

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<v Speaker 2>colleges think we should do about it. Again, lots of drama,

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<v Speaker 2>but the short of it is it's a big deal.

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<v Speaker 2>And when you look at the authors on so many

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<v Speaker 2>spotted owl papers, you'll see R. J. Gutierrez about seventy

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<v Speaker 2>five percent of his grad students of the years have

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<v Speaker 2>worked on owls. But from our first conversation on the

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<v Speaker 2>phone as I was parked on the side of the

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<v Speaker 2>road asking him to be on he has always been

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<v Speaker 2>really humble and gracious and credits others for their work.

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<v Speaker 4>I've just been blessed by having just a wonderful group

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<v Speaker 4>of students who have contributed so much to the science

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<v Speaker 4>and conservation of the.

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<v Speaker 2>Spot or now and people. I know this makes you uncomfortable,

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<v Speaker 2>but people sing your praises as the owl guy so much.

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<v Speaker 2>Where you're named in books about owls. People talk about

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<v Speaker 2>you the legend of rockettereiras of like the owl guy.

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<v Speaker 2>To the point where I was chasing you down like

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<v Speaker 2>you were prey, hoping you would be on this episode.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so excited. And of course the praise is not

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<v Speaker 2>something that he accepts easily. It can be hard to

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<v Speaker 2>see yourself as others do. Even if you have great vision.

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<v Speaker 2>Do your pupils just get bigger than other people's or

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<v Speaker 2>were you a night owl yourself? Or have you always

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<v Speaker 2>been like an evening person?

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<v Speaker 4>Actually I'm a morning person, which is sort of surprising.

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<v Speaker 4>Usually go to sleep at nine or nine thirty and

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<v Speaker 4>get up at five and go swimming. But when I

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<v Speaker 4>work on nows, of course you just sudjust I suppose

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<v Speaker 4>that is one of my characteristics is adaptability. So whatever

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<v Speaker 4>the situation calls for, I adapt to it. And I

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<v Speaker 4>think that's something I learned both from you know, working

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<v Speaker 4>as a kid and also being in the military. In

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<v Speaker 4>the army, is that you have to adapt in you,

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<v Speaker 4>to respond to situations as they arise, because I'm definitely

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<v Speaker 4>not a night person. I prefer to go to sleep early.

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<v Speaker 2>When it came to owls being a steady species of yours,

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<v Speaker 2>was there a moment when you you really realized, like,

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<v Speaker 2>owls are and I'll couch this, but owls might be

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<v Speaker 2>better than all the other birds?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I said it.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you have a soft spot for them particularly? And

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<v Speaker 2>what is it about them that you love?

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<v Speaker 3>Well?

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<v Speaker 4>Actually, my doctoral dissertation was on quail Mountain Quail. No

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<v Speaker 4>one had ever done a doctoral dissertation on mountain Quail.

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<v Speaker 4>And when I told my major professor Starker Leopold at

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<v Speaker 4>Berkeley that I was going to work on Mountain Quail,

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<v Speaker 4>pushed his chair back from his from his desk, and

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<v Speaker 4>he opened the drawer and he pulled out a little

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<v Speaker 4>string and he said, here, here's a rope. Go hang yourself.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, he.

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<v Speaker 4>Said, nobody's ever been able to work on mountain Quail.

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<v Speaker 4>He said, so forget about it. And I said, you

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<v Speaker 4>don't say you can't do something to me. That's just

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<v Speaker 4>like raving a red flag in front of a bull.

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<v Speaker 4>And so I took it on as a challenge, and

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<v Speaker 4>I did complete the first PhD on mountain quail and

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<v Speaker 4>likewise with owls, they are a challenge to work on

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<v Speaker 4>because they're nocturnal and they're often difficult to find. But

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<v Speaker 4>with a spotted owl, fortunately we have many people have

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<v Speaker 4>worked on them. Eric Foresman a good colleague of mine

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<v Speaker 4>from Oregon. He was the first one that really studied

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<v Speaker 4>spotted owls and learned a great deal about them. That

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<v Speaker 4>set the sort of the foundation for the rest of

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<v Speaker 4>us to work on these birds. And so I'm not

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<v Speaker 4>really a legend in that respect, because there's many other

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<v Speaker 4>people that worked on spotted owls that probably know a

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<v Speaker 4>lot more about spotted owls than I do. But regardless,

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<v Speaker 4>that's one of the things that I find in working

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<v Speaker 4>with species is I really enjoy challenges and something that

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<v Speaker 4>is demanding and hard, and especially if the habitat is rough,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, and mountain oil and bottled owls both are

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<v Speaker 4>in usually in a steep mountains and you know, you've

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<v Speaker 4>got to be in really good physical condition to go

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<v Speaker 4>find them and so forth. So this is something I

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<v Speaker 4>really enjoy. It's the challenge of these species that gallow

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<v Speaker 4>forms as well as the owls.

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<v Speaker 2>Just a heads up. A galliform is like a chicken,

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<v Speaker 2>a turkey, a quail, the kind of awkward loping around

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<v Speaker 2>the ground birds. The land fowl galliform comes from the

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<v Speaker 2>Latin for rooster, and we do have a two part

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<v Speaker 2>episode on chickens that we will link in the show notes.

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<v Speaker 2>You're welcome. Also, Rocky's longtime colleague, doctor Eric Forceman, is

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<v Speaker 2>also an accomplished strigoformiologist, and we'll touch on him and

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<v Speaker 2>rodents in a bit. Comes to strigiforms, right, strigiformis striteformies.

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<v Speaker 2>What makes this st for me a strige of for me?

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<v Speaker 2>What makes an owl an owl?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, one way do you think about this is think

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<v Speaker 4>about the owl as an illusion. So if we peel

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<v Speaker 4>back layers of this illusion, we get an idea of

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<v Speaker 4>what the owl is like. So let's look at their

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<v Speaker 4>overall appearance. So when you look at an owl, they

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<v Speaker 4>have a big, round head and then they have big eyes,

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<v Speaker 4>and so that sort of attracts people two owls, at

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<v Speaker 4>least in North America and Europe.

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<v Speaker 2>So not every culture is like me, a simp for owls.

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<v Speaker 2>Some folks, especially in different parts of the world, are

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<v Speaker 2>strigoform folks, So more on that in part two.

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<v Speaker 4>And so you have this big head with big round eyes,

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<v Speaker 4>but in fact their skull is like a triangle. So

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<v Speaker 4>if you put your fingers together and make a triangle,

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<v Speaker 4>that's what their skull actually.

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<v Speaker 2>It looks like, Oh okay, so let's say your thumbs

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<v Speaker 2>are touching, right, you've got a triangle. The short side

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<v Speaker 2>your thumbs are the eyes, and then your pointer fingers

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<v Speaker 2>would be the beak. So owls are not pugdogs. They

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<v Speaker 2>are like golden doodles with a dog snout under a

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of fluff.

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<v Speaker 4>And so it's an illusion that their heads are actually

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<v Speaker 4>around their whole beak and everything. It's just this big triangle.

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<v Speaker 4>And what you're seeing is a combination of the eyes,

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<v Speaker 4>which are actually in tubes. So they're elongated eyes that

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<v Speaker 4>are held in place rigidly by something called a scleral ring.

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<v Speaker 4>You can think of it as like a bunch of shingles,

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<v Speaker 4>bony shingles, and they provide a rigid structure for its eyes.

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<v Speaker 4>And then around that is this huge facial discs that

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<v Speaker 4>owls have. You can see that on all the owls

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<v Speaker 4>that they have this massive feathers that makes the owl

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<v Speaker 4>appear as if it has this big, rounded head when

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<v Speaker 4>it actually it's triangular when you consider the beak together.

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<v Speaker 2>And are their eyes tubular shaped or are they in tubes?

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<v Speaker 4>They're tubular shaped.

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<v Speaker 2>What, Yeah, like a sausage eye.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, they're sort of strange. Of course, this varies by

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<v Speaker 4>the species of owls, but most of them have that

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<v Speaker 4>elongated shape, and there are actually some mammals that have

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<v Speaker 4>that too, like bush babies and some of these nocturnal

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<v Speaker 4>primates have these elongated eyeballs.

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<v Speaker 2>So owls big puffy, feathery face and tube eyes like

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<v Speaker 2>big fat worms, held in place by a bony plated

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<v Speaker 2>pipe called a scleral ring.

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<v Speaker 4>Now they have this disproportionately large eyes in a big head.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, their eyes are so big, like a great

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<v Speaker 4>horned owl is five percent of its body weight what

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<v Speaker 4>and a human, for example, it's like point zero zero

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<v Speaker 4>three percent of the body weight. So they have a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of investment in their eyes and in those eyes

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<v Speaker 4>because they're held in place, they cannot move their the eyeballs.

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<v Speaker 4>Like we can sit there straight ahead and watch people

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<v Speaker 4>out of the corner of our eye and we have

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<v Speaker 4>great peripheral vision. The owls can't do that. Their eyes

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<v Speaker 4>are fixed in their head, and as a consequence, they

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<v Speaker 4>have to move their heads to see where they're going. Now,

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<v Speaker 4>owls are different than most other birds in that most

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<v Speaker 4>other birds have their eyes on the sides of their head,

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<v Speaker 4>so they have good peripheral vision, but not good binocular vision.

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<v Speaker 4>And binocular vision is very important for depth perception, and

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<v Speaker 4>the owls have about a seventy degree field of binocular vision.

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<v Speaker 2>By contrast, have nearly one hundred and eighty degree binocular vision.

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<v Speaker 2>But this adaptation, it's not just a badge of predator

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<v Speaker 2>versus prey. Bunch of plant eaters who have to swing

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<v Speaker 2>through trees have two forward facing eyes because it helps

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<v Speaker 2>him judge the distance before leaping between branches and getting

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<v Speaker 2>smacked in the face. But Rocky, because he's awesome, emailed

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<v Speaker 2>me later, wanting to impart more details about their vision.

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<v Speaker 2>He's the best, he wrote. Owls see way better in

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<v Speaker 2>the dark than us and other birds because at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of those sausage eyes, he says, they have a

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<v Speaker 2>higher proportion of rods, which are the light sensitive structures,

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<v Speaker 2>relative to the cones, which are the color sensitive structures,

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<v Speaker 2>than other birds or humans. In fact, he continues, in

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<v Speaker 2>the retina, there is something called the foviial pit, which

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<v Speaker 2>is a depression in the retina, and that's highly sensitive.

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<v Speaker 2>It's densely packed with only rods, the light sensitive structures.

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<v Speaker 2>In addition, he says, many owls have this reflective layer

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<v Speaker 2>behind the retina. It's called a tapitum lucidum, and it

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<v Speaker 2>gathers even more light into the rods. And he says,

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<v Speaker 2>this is why if you shine a flashlight at some animals,

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<v Speaker 2>their eyes glow. It's light reflecting off that tap lucidum layer.

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<v Speaker 2>So now we know this, and if you have a

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<v Speaker 2>soft spot for creatures of the Evening, you can enjoy

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<v Speaker 2>our episodes about lemurs, raccoons, possums. We even have a

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<v Speaker 2>whole eye episode. But yeah, owls great binocular vision via

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<v Speaker 2>those tubes and pipes. But as much as an owl

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<v Speaker 2>would like to, they can't give a lot of side eye.

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<v Speaker 4>It's not as white as ours because their other eyes

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<v Speaker 4>are fixed. But it still gives them the ability to

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<v Speaker 4>focus in and determine the distance of prey, as for example.

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<v Speaker 4>And so because they have this fixed eye and binocular visions,

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00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:57.039
<v Speaker 4>what they have to do is turn their head to

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<v Speaker 4>see where a sound is coming from. One of the

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00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:07.000
<v Speaker 4>adaptations they have evolved to compensate for this restricted eye

405
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:10.160
<v Speaker 4>is that they can rotate their head. They can swivel

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<v Speaker 4>their head two hundred and seventy degrees, so they can

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<v Speaker 4>turn it all around. When you think about twisting your

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<v Speaker 4>haird well, we just can't do that. I can barely

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<v Speaker 4>get my head forty five degrees around. But when they

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<v Speaker 4>twist it, the foramen or pamena that the arteries of

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<v Speaker 4>the neck going up into the brain, they run through

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<v Speaker 4>these holes in the vertebrae and they are actually quite

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<v Speaker 4>wide so that when they twist, the artery doesn't get constricted.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh wow, because if we were able to do that somehow,

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00:23:44.279 --> 00:23:47.880
<v Speaker 4>we probably constrict our corodid arteries and we pass out.

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<v Speaker 4>But they don't need that. They just switch all the

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<v Speaker 4>way around. And the other thing is owls have fourteen

418
00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:57.640
<v Speaker 4>vertebrae in their neck, whereas we only have seven. They

419
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:01.200
<v Speaker 4>have a very long neck, and that's an illusion because

420
00:24:01.240 --> 00:24:02.359
<v Speaker 4>if you look at it, they look like they have

421
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:05.279
<v Speaker 4>little short necks, but actually they have a really long neck.

422
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:08.200
<v Speaker 4>And it's all because of this facial disc is covering

423
00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:11.440
<v Speaker 4>things up and the feathers on their shoulders and so forth,

424
00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:15.519
<v Speaker 4>and the facial disc it self is unique in that

425
00:24:15.680 --> 00:24:20.960
<v Speaker 4>they can actually control these feathers. And it's like us

426
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:24.279
<v Speaker 4>putting our hands behind our ears and cupping them. And

427
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:26.519
<v Speaker 4>we do that when we want to hear something far away,

428
00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:28.720
<v Speaker 4>and we put our hands behind our ears and cup them.

429
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:31.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So looking under the hood again, owls can spin

430
00:24:31.960 --> 00:24:34.920
<v Speaker 2>their necks like an exorcism because they have twice as

431
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:37.720
<v Speaker 2>many neckbones as us, and under all those feathers they

432
00:24:37.799 --> 00:24:42.000
<v Speaker 2>only have two fewer neck bones than a duck. There's skellies.

433
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:44.559
<v Speaker 2>I looked them up. They look like a completely different bird.

434
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:46.319
<v Speaker 2>You'd be like, what bird is this? You would not

435
00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:49.359
<v Speaker 2>guess an owl. They also have again bigger holes for

436
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:52.799
<v Speaker 2>their arteries, and those disc flat faces that we love

437
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:57.079
<v Speaker 2>are not structural so much as tweaked through their feather adjustments.

438
00:24:57.839 --> 00:24:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I know you're saying, the legs, the legs, the legs.

439
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:02.319
<v Speaker 2>We've got to talk about their weird little frog legs.

440
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:04.319
<v Speaker 2>We're going to get to that in part two, I promise.

441
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:09.240
<v Speaker 4>And also on their ear flaps, they have the little

442
00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:12.519
<v Speaker 4>flaps on their ear that can control the opening and

443
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:16.000
<v Speaker 4>closing of the ears, but they also have feathers behind

444
00:25:16.039 --> 00:25:19.160
<v Speaker 4>them that also can direct sound into their ears.

445
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:22.960
<v Speaker 2>So owls are hunting machines. But why do some of

446
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:25.759
<v Speaker 2>them have so much style in the head region.

447
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:29.599
<v Speaker 4>And then another thing about them is an illusion. Sometimes

448
00:25:29.640 --> 00:25:33.279
<v Speaker 4>you see these little what we call owl ears sticking

449
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:35.359
<v Speaker 4>up on great horned owls and screechings.

450
00:25:35.640 --> 00:25:37.359
<v Speaker 2>Yes, what are those?

451
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:40.559
<v Speaker 4>Well, we think they're probably signals of some kind of

452
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:44.839
<v Speaker 4>signaling device that owls that are primarily cryp props killer

453
00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:49.559
<v Speaker 4>or that hunt in the twilight hours of dawn and dusk.

454
00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:54.640
<v Speaker 4>That's a term we call crepuscular, and we think that

455
00:25:54.759 --> 00:25:58.680
<v Speaker 4>they might be signals between the pair, but they are

456
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:01.640
<v Speaker 4>not any have anything to do with the years. So

457
00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:05.400
<v Speaker 4>the ears are actually big long slits on the side

458
00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:10.839
<v Speaker 4>of their heads, and the ears themselves are offset, so

459
00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:14.119
<v Speaker 4>the ear on the right hand side is higher than

460
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:17.640
<v Speaker 4>the one on the left, and their head is proportionally

461
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:22.799
<v Speaker 4>much larger than most birds. And as a consequence, when

462
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:27.440
<v Speaker 4>the sound hits those ears, this is sort of mind boggling.

463
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:32.400
<v Speaker 4>But the difference in time between the sound hitting one

464
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:37.039
<v Speaker 4>ear and the other ear is thirty milliseconds, and they

465
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:40.359
<v Speaker 4>can actually tell the difference of the direction of sound

466
00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:46.920
<v Speaker 4>based on that teeny you know, millions of seconds sound.

467
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:51.200
<v Speaker 2>To illustrate, Here are two beeps that are thirty milliseconds.

468
00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:54.720
<v Speaker 4>Apart, and these are all these adjustments that the ls

469
00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:56.880
<v Speaker 4>have made. And so when you look at them, it

470
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.880
<v Speaker 4>looks like they don't have ears, but they actually do

471
00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:03.519
<v Speaker 4>have them, just these narrow slits hidden behind feathers. So

472
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.319
<v Speaker 4>the owl is sort of enigmatic in the way it

473
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.480
<v Speaker 4>appears to you. But when you, as we have just done,

474
00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:15.599
<v Speaker 4>pull those things apart, you start to see what an

475
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:20.319
<v Speaker 4>owl is really like, which is a bird that has

476
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:22.359
<v Speaker 4>evolved to conquer the night.

477
00:27:23.279 --> 00:27:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Are all owls nocturnal or crepuscular or are there daytime owls?

478
00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:33.200
<v Speaker 4>There are daytime owls, there are these crepuscular evening and

479
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.400
<v Speaker 4>the morning hunting owls. As the majority of owls are nocturnal,

480
00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.680
<v Speaker 4>so like burrowing owls and short ears owls, they're primarily

481
00:27:43.480 --> 00:27:48.519
<v Speaker 4>diurnal and screech owls great horned owls spend quite a

482
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.079
<v Speaker 4>bit of their time in the evening in early morning

483
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:54.240
<v Speaker 4>hours hunting, but most of the rest of the owls

484
00:27:54.279 --> 00:27:54.920
<v Speaker 4>are nocturnal.

485
00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:58.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, when I first moved to my neighborhood. Well, first,

486
00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:00.440
<v Speaker 2>I had lived in an apartment in a busy part

487
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.200
<v Speaker 2>of LA for a while. But when I moved to

488
00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:06.160
<v Speaker 2>this house, we had much more nature. And I found

489
00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:08.160
<v Speaker 2>a feather and they looked at it closely, and I

490
00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:11.119
<v Speaker 2>realized it was an owl feather because it had little

491
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.319
<v Speaker 2>sort of a serrated edge, and I freaked out so excited.

492
00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:18.640
<v Speaker 2>And sure enough we have a pair of great horned

493
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:24.359
<v Speaker 2>owls and you can hear the OOO at night, all

494
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:24.720
<v Speaker 2>at night.

495
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:26.240
<v Speaker 4>It's so great. I love them.

496
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:28.920
<v Speaker 2>We see them all the time. But can you explain

497
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:32.759
<v Speaker 2>a little bit about how they're so quiet? Because one

498
00:28:32.839 --> 00:28:36.000
<v Speaker 2>will fly right by me. You can't hear a sound.

499
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:38.680
<v Speaker 2>And do all owls have that? Are only some?

500
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:43.279
<v Speaker 4>Well? Versusly all owls have silent flight? Now? The ones

501
00:28:43.640 --> 00:28:46.799
<v Speaker 4>that don't are the ones that hunt fish, like in

502
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:51.880
<v Speaker 4>the genus Katoopa, and some bubos like the Blackison's fish owl,

503
00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:53.039
<v Speaker 4>the world's largest owl.

504
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:55.880
<v Speaker 2>So these are ten pound chunkers. And if you are

505
00:28:55.920 --> 00:28:58.359
<v Speaker 2>thirsty for more info, I would like to direct you

506
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:02.599
<v Speaker 2>toward the wonderful book by another strigoformiologist titled Owls of

507
00:29:02.680 --> 00:29:05.519
<v Speaker 2>the Eastern Ice, A Quest to Find and Save the

508
00:29:05.599 --> 00:29:09.720
<v Speaker 2>World's Largest Owl by doctor Jonathan C. Slatt, who was

509
00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:12.000
<v Speaker 2>a grad student of Rockies. And one reason I was

510
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:14.559
<v Speaker 2>so thrilled to get Rocky on this show is that

511
00:29:14.720 --> 00:29:18.000
<v Speaker 2>Jonathan wrote about doing field work with him. So Jonathan

512
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:21.160
<v Speaker 2>writes about some field work that he was doing in Asia,

513
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:23.599
<v Speaker 2>and he writes that his guide on the trip had

514
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:27.240
<v Speaker 2>not met Rocky before, but his past experiences with foreigners

515
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:30.480
<v Speaker 2>had taught him that most were dowe, pampered, and unable

516
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:33.920
<v Speaker 2>to bear the discomfort of the insects sworms the cat

517
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:37.359
<v Speaker 2>holes and the insect sworms at cat holes that awaited them.

518
00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:40.920
<v Speaker 2>Jonathan continues, I assured the guide that Rocky took a

519
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.400
<v Speaker 2>perverse pleasure in suffering of all kinds and viewed discomfort

520
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:49.680
<v Speaker 2>as an adversary best ignored. Still, doubts lingered until they met,

521
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:54.519
<v Speaker 2>when Rocky's rough hands and KT's rope physique showed him

522
00:29:54.680 --> 00:29:57.799
<v Speaker 2>they were a pair accustomed to an honest life outdoors.

523
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Rocky in his sixties was zembled a snowy owl, short

524
00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:05.480
<v Speaker 2>with large eyes under a mop of white hair. KT

525
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:10.240
<v Speaker 2>was about Rockies age, slight, quiet and highly observant. So yes,

526
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:12.839
<v Speaker 2>you can pick up owls of the Eastern Ice. A

527
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:15.640
<v Speaker 2>Quest to Find and Save the World's Largest Owl by

528
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.039
<v Speaker 2>Jonathan Slatt. We'll link it on our website. You can

529
00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:23.160
<v Speaker 2>learn all about these largest owls. The endangered Blackiston's fish owl,

530
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:27.839
<v Speaker 2>which is allowed to brag about its nearly two meter wingspan,

531
00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:31.319
<v Speaker 2>wings as wide as your dad is tall. Not me,

532
00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:33.640
<v Speaker 2>not your internet dad, but like a real man dad.

533
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:38.480
<v Speaker 4>There's no premium on being silent because the fish can't

534
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:41.519
<v Speaker 4>hear you. You know, they drop down from either from

535
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:44.640
<v Speaker 4>a perch above the water onto there, or like the

536
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:47.400
<v Speaker 4>blacks and fish owlil oftentimes walk along the edge of

537
00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:50.640
<v Speaker 4>the shore or jump on rocks and then jump into

538
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:55.000
<v Speaker 4>the pool and grab the fish. Getting back to your observation,

539
00:30:55.160 --> 00:30:59.759
<v Speaker 4>which is wonderful, actually, thank you. Owls have a couple

540
00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:05.119
<v Speaker 4>of adaptations. One is that, as you noted, they have

541
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:10.279
<v Speaker 4>these serrated edges, and that's caused by the loss of

542
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:14.799
<v Speaker 4>these little hooks that are called barbules that most birds

543
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:19.359
<v Speaker 4>have that actually keep the feather rasing a lock together

544
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:23.839
<v Speaker 4>and they've lost that, and so people have thought that

545
00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:28.319
<v Speaker 4>that gives the owls a silent flight, but there's some

546
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:34.039
<v Speaker 4>hypotheses that it actually has evolved to reduce the turbulence

547
00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:39.079
<v Speaker 4>oh behind the wing, and then they have another adaptation

548
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:43.640
<v Speaker 4>with these velvety structures over the tops of their flight

549
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:48.279
<v Speaker 4>feathers that in fact is the one that's reducing the

550
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:49.480
<v Speaker 4>sound that they're making.

551
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:51.640
<v Speaker 2>And for more on this you can please enjoy the

552
00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:55.559
<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen paper Features of owl wings that promote silent flight,

553
00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:59.240
<v Speaker 2>which cites plenty of other research into owl stealth, and

554
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.279
<v Speaker 2>it notes that the large wings of these birds contribute

555
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:05.279
<v Speaker 2>to the noise reduction by allowing slow flight, and the

556
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:08.599
<v Speaker 2>serrations on the leading edge of the wing and that

557
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:12.279
<v Speaker 2>velvet like surface have an effect on noise reduction, and

558
00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:15.440
<v Speaker 2>they also boost aerodynamic performance. And it notes that the

559
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:19.079
<v Speaker 2>fringes at the inner feather veins as well as the

560
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:22.519
<v Speaker 2>fringed trailing edge of the wing reduce noise. So it's

561
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:25.799
<v Speaker 2>a combo of those two factors, and like everything that

562
00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:28.759
<v Speaker 2>is cool in nature, of course, engineers are like, how

563
00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:31.240
<v Speaker 2>can we do that too, but it might take like

564
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:33.759
<v Speaker 2>around sixty million years to get it dialed.

565
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:39.519
<v Speaker 4>Those two adaptations, coupled with the way they actually approach

566
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:43.960
<v Speaker 4>a prey or in your case, they would fly by

567
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:48.720
<v Speaker 4>you to go another place, they often launch themselves and

568
00:32:48.839 --> 00:32:52.839
<v Speaker 4>then glide. They don't do the typical bird flapping and moving.

569
00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:56.200
<v Speaker 4>They will, of course when they're flying distances, but when

570
00:32:56.240 --> 00:33:00.799
<v Speaker 4>they're hunting or attacking something, they come in without flapping,

571
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:05.079
<v Speaker 4>So the turbulence is being reduced, their sound is being reduced,

572
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:09.279
<v Speaker 4>and they're restricting their movements of their wings, so they're

573
00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:13.240
<v Speaker 4>virtually silent in flight. I know a lot of people say, well,

574
00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.559
<v Speaker 4>I heard an owl, you know, fly by me, and

575
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:17.839
<v Speaker 4>isn't now you didn't hear them. What you heard was

576
00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:20.400
<v Speaker 4>when they landed on the branch, and the branch is

577
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:23.839
<v Speaker 4>going up and down. But that's what you heard. When

578
00:33:23.880 --> 00:33:25.960
<v Speaker 4>you think about it, these things can go right past

579
00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:27.240
<v Speaker 4>you and you will not hear them.

580
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.200
<v Speaker 2>And are they using that to sneak up on prey?

581
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:34.079
<v Speaker 2>Are they able with their giant, huge sausage eyes to

582
00:33:34.279 --> 00:33:38.720
<v Speaker 2>see rodents scurrying and other crepuscular or nocturnal animals and

583
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:41.519
<v Speaker 2>they're just swooping down and picking them up. Is that

584
00:33:41.599 --> 00:33:42.880
<v Speaker 2>how a lot of owls hunt.

585
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:47.799
<v Speaker 4>Well, we call them mostly perch and pounds predators. When

586
00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:52.240
<v Speaker 4>I've watched them attack prey, you'll see them look very

587
00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:55.400
<v Speaker 4>intently at something. Of course, we often use mice to

588
00:33:55.519 --> 00:33:59.000
<v Speaker 4>get them to come down where we can catch them.

589
00:33:59.400 --> 00:34:03.319
<v Speaker 4>It's basically like watching them hunt. It's artificial though, because

590
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:07.880
<v Speaker 4>we're putting some food down, but they'll often look intently

591
00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:10.559
<v Speaker 4>and sometimes bob their head to focus in on what

592
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:14.639
<v Speaker 4>it is, and once they realize, they just launch themselves

593
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:18.760
<v Speaker 4>come in and then extend their talons and grab them.

594
00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:22.880
<v Speaker 4>But they can also relocate, so if they hear something

595
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:26.320
<v Speaker 4>and they think they see it and maybe they can't

596
00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.639
<v Speaker 4>really focus on it because of the obstruction of vegetation

597
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.559
<v Speaker 4>or whatever, they'll fly to a different perge and then

598
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:36.239
<v Speaker 4>get another view of it, and once they're confident that

599
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:40.239
<v Speaker 4>they can catch this thing, they make the attack. We've

600
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:45.440
<v Speaker 4>noticed in doing these studies feeding mice to owls that

601
00:34:46.159 --> 00:34:50.360
<v Speaker 4>some of them seem to prefer taking prey off the ground,

602
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:55.280
<v Speaker 4>others from branches or the size of the trees. So

603
00:34:56.039 --> 00:35:00.840
<v Speaker 4>we call this phenomenon when individuals get a search image

604
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:04.440
<v Speaker 4>for a particular type of prey, what do you want?

605
00:35:05.000 --> 00:35:06.800
<v Speaker 4>What do you want? And now, of course owls, when

606
00:35:06.840 --> 00:35:08.880
<v Speaker 4>you look at their diet, they're eating lots of things,

607
00:35:09.239 --> 00:35:11.800
<v Speaker 4>but some of them seem to be very adept or

608
00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.039
<v Speaker 4>prefer to take animals off of trees or off of

609
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:19.639
<v Speaker 4>bushes or off the ground. They have their own preferences

610
00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:21.280
<v Speaker 4>for how they might go about doing this.

611
00:35:21.679 --> 00:35:23.519
<v Speaker 2>And I got to ask, what's that field work?

612
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:23.719
<v Speaker 1>Like?

613
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:26.320
<v Speaker 2>Do you have a pouch full of live mice? Are

614
00:35:26.360 --> 00:35:28.679
<v Speaker 2>they dead mice? Are you toss them in a field?

615
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Are you sticking a dead mouse on a tree? How

616
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:33.239
<v Speaker 2>do you figure that out?

617
00:35:33.639 --> 00:35:36.519
<v Speaker 4>Well, what we do is usually use live mice to

618
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:40.719
<v Speaker 4>feed to them, because we have had lures that little

619
00:35:40.840 --> 00:35:44.199
<v Speaker 4>toy store mouse that we pull along. But they seem

620
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.960
<v Speaker 4>to know the difference between something that's real and not real.

621
00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:52.519
<v Speaker 4>And as a result, we well, Eric figured this out

622
00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:56.119
<v Speaker 4>putting a live mice out there and then they'll come

623
00:35:56.239 --> 00:36:00.239
<v Speaker 4>down to catch it. And over time we've developed different

624
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:03.599
<v Speaker 4>sorts of techniques for some nits and this nets, and

625
00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:07.639
<v Speaker 4>then Eric developed a capture poll, and then we made

626
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:12.519
<v Speaker 4>noose poles and various devices to catch them, pan traps, whatnot.

627
00:36:13.119 --> 00:36:14.719
<v Speaker 4>And now it turns out the easiest thing to do

628
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:18.360
<v Speaker 4>is just catch them by hand. What hell you put

629
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:20.760
<v Speaker 4>the mouse down, they come for the mouse and just

630
00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:22.159
<v Speaker 4>snatch them by the foot.

631
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Are they so mad at you? You know?

632
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:31.480
<v Speaker 4>It's really interesting that when you catch an owl they

633
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:38.400
<v Speaker 4>often will build click, they pop their build together, and

634
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:42.519
<v Speaker 4>that's sort of an agitation display and maybe even a

635
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:46.280
<v Speaker 4>threat display as well. So one of the things that

636
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:49.440
<v Speaker 4>we realized if you watch a pair of owls together,

637
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:51.880
<v Speaker 4>and this is one of the things that makes them

638
00:36:51.960 --> 00:36:55.880
<v Speaker 4>so adorable to people, is that they often roost right

639
00:36:55.960 --> 00:36:58.199
<v Speaker 4>next to each other and then they'll alo print.

640
00:36:58.480 --> 00:36:59.159
<v Speaker 1>What does that mean?

641
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.800
<v Speaker 4>You know, that means that they preene each other. So

642
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:04.960
<v Speaker 4>they'll get up there and they'll preen their face. And

643
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:09.039
<v Speaker 4>we thought, you know, what if we did that, You know,

644
00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:11.480
<v Speaker 4>we just preen their little faces and stuff like that,

645
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:14.679
<v Speaker 4>you know, because they're just bill snapping and struggling and

646
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:16.440
<v Speaker 4>trying to get away, and then just go like that

647
00:37:16.559 --> 00:37:20.679
<v Speaker 4>and you just start alow preening their face, and but

648
00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:24.519
<v Speaker 4>you see they just relax. Just ah, this feels so good.

649
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:30.599
<v Speaker 4>That's exactly what they're doing, because you're simulating, well, we

650
00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:34.079
<v Speaker 4>think it's alo Preening serves a couple of functions. One

651
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.639
<v Speaker 4>is reinforcement of the pair bond between the pair, and

652
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:42.960
<v Speaker 4>also it's feather maintenance because an owl can't really maintain

653
00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:45.760
<v Speaker 4>its feathers very well. On its face. They can scratch

654
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:48.480
<v Speaker 4>and so forth. But when they get the mate preening

655
00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:50.159
<v Speaker 4>their face except the feathers and so.

656
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Forth, are they mating for life most owls or is

657
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:56.960
<v Speaker 2>it totally dependent on the species? Ooh, a little cliffhanger.

658
00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned until after the break to find out about

659
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:03.039
<v Speaker 2>owl romance. But first, let's donate to a cause that

660
00:38:03.199 --> 00:38:06.679
<v Speaker 2>Rocky loves, which is the International Owl Center, which is

661
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:09.800
<v Speaker 2>in Houston, but Houston, Minnesota, and their mission is to

662
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:13.159
<v Speaker 2>make the world a better place for owls through education

663
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:17.119
<v Speaker 2>and research, and they also have an International Owl Festival

664
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:20.559
<v Speaker 2>in March. Rocky and John Stratt were speakers last year

665
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:22.920
<v Speaker 2>and they have a bunch of resources on their site

666
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:26.519
<v Speaker 2>about owls, bird rehabbers, even a World Owl Hall of

667
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:30.199
<v Speaker 2>Fame which brings public recognition to the owls and humans

668
00:38:30.239 --> 00:38:32.039
<v Speaker 2>that have done great things to make this world a

669
00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:34.320
<v Speaker 2>better place for owls. You can find out more at

670
00:38:34.440 --> 00:38:39.079
<v Speaker 2>Internationalowlcenter dot org. So I'll toast to that and also

671
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:41.239
<v Speaker 2>donate to that. Thank you to sponsors of the show.

672
00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:44.559
<v Speaker 1>Drivers know what trouble sounds like? Hell?

673
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:48.760
<v Speaker 3>No, okay, forward?

674
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:55.079
<v Speaker 1>Oh no oh prize. That's why they get cover from

675
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.599
<v Speaker 1>Ireland's soundest car insurance provider, Super Value. Insurance.

676
00:38:58.920 --> 00:39:01.039
<v Speaker 3>Thanks for calling us, bin and don't be to set

677
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:03.280
<v Speaker 3>up about it. Sure, I'm drive in ten years and

678
00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:04.079
<v Speaker 3>parallel parking.

679
00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:07.320
<v Speaker 1>Still that isn't me get a quote from Supervalue Car

680
00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:10.280
<v Speaker 1>Insurance to get ten percent off online and we'll even

681
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:13.719
<v Speaker 1>throw in forty euroin vouchers. Tacencs apply. Vouchers include two

682
00:39:13.760 --> 00:39:16.559
<v Speaker 1>twenty euro or forty eurospent. This car insurance is underwritten

683
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:19.119
<v Speaker 1>by ACT Insurance STACKED super Value Financial Services STACK Trading

684
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:21.159
<v Speaker 1>A super Value insurance is regulated by the Central Bank

685
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:21.599
<v Speaker 1>of Ireland.

686
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I had just asked Rocky. Are they mating

687
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:28.679
<v Speaker 2>for life most owls or is it totally dependent on

688
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:29.440
<v Speaker 2>the species?

689
00:39:29.679 --> 00:39:32.119
<v Speaker 4>Well, for most species, we really don't know, but it

690
00:39:32.239 --> 00:39:36.760
<v Speaker 4>appears that most species maintain a long term pair bond.

691
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:39.639
<v Speaker 4>I wouldn't say mate for life, because they do in

692
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:40.519
<v Speaker 4>fact divorce.

693
00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh look at my son, it's not your fault.

694
00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:45.920
<v Speaker 4>They'll leave a mate and go to another mate. It

695
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:49.760
<v Speaker 4>very well might be that if they're failing to nest,

696
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:54.480
<v Speaker 4>one mate will leave and try to find another nest.

697
00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:59.280
<v Speaker 4>That still needs to be investigated more fully. But one

698
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:02.880
<v Speaker 4>of the few that we know does not make annually

699
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.920
<v Speaker 4>seems to find new mates. As a burrowing owl, they

700
00:40:05.960 --> 00:40:08.480
<v Speaker 4>will seek out new mates each year.

701
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:12.360
<v Speaker 2>What are those nests like? You know, we put up

702
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:17.599
<v Speaker 2>an owl box before we realize that mostly barn owls

703
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.079
<v Speaker 2>like those, and we already had some great horned we

704
00:40:20.199 --> 00:40:21.599
<v Speaker 2>were good to go on the owls. So now the

705
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:23.920
<v Speaker 2>great horned owls sit on top of the owl box

706
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:28.480
<v Speaker 2>and they do their pounds and perch from there. But

707
00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:31.400
<v Speaker 2>what kind of nests do a lot of these owls have?

708
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Are they finding a hole in a tree? Are they

709
00:40:34.960 --> 00:40:38.800
<v Speaker 2>building them out of sticks? Are they finding another abandoned nests?

710
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I know pigeons suck at nesting because they don't really

711
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:44.400
<v Speaker 2>need to be good at it if they're on a cliff.

712
00:40:44.679 --> 00:40:45.639
<v Speaker 2>But what about owls.

713
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:50.719
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, owls don't build these nests. Oh yeah, observation is correct.

714
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:55.760
<v Speaker 4>But they will seek several different kinds of nests. As

715
00:40:55.800 --> 00:41:00.920
<v Speaker 4>you noted, they will find and use all abandoned raptor nests,

716
00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:05.159
<v Speaker 4>nests of ravens. They will sometimes nest in the crotch

717
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:09.039
<v Speaker 4>of a tree where there's accumulated debris. They will nest

718
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:14.239
<v Speaker 4>in witches brooms. They'll nest in big cavities if a

719
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:16.159
<v Speaker 4>tree is broken off at the top like an old

720
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:20.840
<v Speaker 4>growth forest. A lot of times older trees get weakened

721
00:41:21.280 --> 00:41:24.440
<v Speaker 4>by disease or fungus, and a windstorm will break the

722
00:41:24.559 --> 00:41:26.679
<v Speaker 4>top of the tree, and then you know, ten or

723
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:30.519
<v Speaker 4>fifteen years of rotting, there's a shallow depression there and

724
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:32.800
<v Speaker 4>they will nest inside that depression.

725
00:41:33.079 --> 00:41:36.800
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I nest inside a depression sometimes. Also I thought

726
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:39.519
<v Speaker 2>Rocky was just being cute, But a witch's broom is

727
00:41:39.599 --> 00:41:42.480
<v Speaker 2>a real thing. I did not know this. And when

728
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.760
<v Speaker 2>a tree has a pathogen or some wonky growth, it

729
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:49.880
<v Speaker 2>can grow this clot of weird, little curly branches. They

730
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:52.519
<v Speaker 2>look like a bird's nest, so much so that ow

731
00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:55.519
<v Speaker 2>will see it with their sausage eyes and they say, hell, yeah,

732
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:56.159
<v Speaker 2>I live there now.

733
00:41:56.400 --> 00:41:58.440
<v Speaker 4>And they don't put any kind of material, They just

734
00:41:58.519 --> 00:42:02.039
<v Speaker 4>whatever's there are They just lay there. And of course

735
00:42:02.360 --> 00:42:04.800
<v Speaker 4>great horned owls and some other owls will nest in

736
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:08.039
<v Speaker 4>cliffs just like these pigeons will. But the pigeons usually

737
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:11.880
<v Speaker 4>build a little flimsy nest. They're not great nest builders,

738
00:42:11.960 --> 00:42:14.920
<v Speaker 4>but they do build a nest, whereas the owls don't.

739
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:19.280
<v Speaker 4>And in your situation, as you mentioned that, I was thinking, well,

740
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:22.400
<v Speaker 4>maybe the size of the hole in the box is

741
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:26.920
<v Speaker 4>not big enough for a grain horn owl. That's a possibility.

742
00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Typically, will you have owls that overlap in range or

743
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:34.719
<v Speaker 2>are they like one owl one pair of owls is

744
00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:38.079
<v Speaker 2>enough for one place, or they'll will they start eating

745
00:42:38.079 --> 00:42:39.800
<v Speaker 2>each other if they're a different species.

746
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:42.480
<v Speaker 4>Well, I mean, you might be talking about two different things.

747
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:45.800
<v Speaker 4>But let's take these in in order. So if you're

748
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:49.599
<v Speaker 4>talking about the same species, there can be adjacency in

749
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:54.079
<v Speaker 4>pairs and some small overlap in the home range, but

750
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:57.119
<v Speaker 4>they have inside that home range is an area that

751
00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:02.400
<v Speaker 4>is defended, and we call that the territory, and that's

752
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:07.239
<v Speaker 4>an exclusive zone. So they will exclude any other awl

753
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:10.760
<v Speaker 4>pair from coming into that territory if they know they're

754
00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:13.480
<v Speaker 4>they're and that's one of the purposes of hooting, is

755
00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:17.199
<v Speaker 4>to announce the territory and to tell people stay out

756
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:20.079
<v Speaker 4>of here. This is my place, please get out. But

757
00:43:20.199 --> 00:43:25.599
<v Speaker 4>then there's the other question about different species of owls,

758
00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:30.760
<v Speaker 4>And we have done research on this and we find

759
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:36.119
<v Speaker 4>that owls that are synopic that is occurring in the

760
00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:41.840
<v Speaker 4>very same habitat can only coexist if they're eating different

761
00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:45.880
<v Speaker 4>foods or their different body sizes, which suggests that there's

762
00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:48.719
<v Speaker 4>something going on with a trophy level or the way

763
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:51.960
<v Speaker 4>they forage. So they have to be big enough difference

764
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:56.079
<v Speaker 4>in size for them to coexist in the same habitat.

765
00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.960
<v Speaker 4>But you know a lot of times the little owls

766
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:02.440
<v Speaker 4>are taking their chance being in the habitat of the

767
00:44:02.480 --> 00:44:04.119
<v Speaker 4>bigger ones because they'll get eaten.

768
00:44:04.480 --> 00:44:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was gonna say, like little little cornish game

769
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:11.079
<v Speaker 2>hens to them. Should people put a bowel boxes? If

770
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:14.679
<v Speaker 2>someone wants to have an owl in their yard, sure,

771
00:44:15.239 --> 00:44:16.119
<v Speaker 2>what's best way to do it?

772
00:44:16.599 --> 00:44:20.760
<v Speaker 4>Yeah? Again, it depends on where one lives. But very

773
00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:25.960
<v Speaker 4>often in suburban areas, if there are sufficient trees, there's

774
00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:30.480
<v Speaker 4>often small owls around, like pigmy owls or screech owls,

775
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:34.599
<v Speaker 4>and you can entice them to live there. And very

776
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:39.639
<v Speaker 4>often holes are a limiting factor for these small owls,

777
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:44.039
<v Speaker 4>So putting up nest boxes you very well might attract now.

778
00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:45.960
<v Speaker 4>And of course, if you live out in the country,

779
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:48.519
<v Speaker 4>then there's all kinds of owls that you might be

780
00:44:48.599 --> 00:44:53.920
<v Speaker 4>able to track, and therefore you can put larger boxes

781
00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:56.760
<v Speaker 4>or medium sized boxes and so forth. But you have

782
00:44:56.840 --> 00:44:59.679
<v Speaker 4>to be careful about this because you put owls and

783
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:02.800
<v Speaker 4>p civity that lively to eat each other, you might

784
00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:07.000
<v Speaker 4>be doing something counterproductive, so be careful about what you're

785
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:07.800
<v Speaker 4>trying to attract.

786
00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:10.800
<v Speaker 2>Should you mount the box to a tree or is

787
00:45:10.840 --> 00:45:12.400
<v Speaker 2>it better on a free standing pole?

788
00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:15.639
<v Speaker 4>Probably anywhere on a tree. But if you put it

789
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:20.079
<v Speaker 4>on a pole or on a tree, it's often helpful

790
00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:24.840
<v Speaker 4>to place some kind of a barrier that a raccoon

791
00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:28.400
<v Speaker 4>or other animal can't go up the pole to get it,

792
00:45:28.920 --> 00:45:31.440
<v Speaker 4>because if a raccoon can criime up a pole or

793
00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:35.400
<v Speaker 4>a tree and reach its little paw inside it and

794
00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:37.639
<v Speaker 4>grab an owl at for dinner, it'll.

795
00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:37.719
<v Speaker 3>Do that.

796
00:45:39.320 --> 00:45:41.760
<v Speaker 2>Poor little baby. Owls are owls good parents.

797
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:47.119
<v Speaker 4>They are wonderful parents. And this is one thing about owls.

798
00:45:47.119 --> 00:45:51.039
<v Speaker 4>They have a strong division of labor between the male

799
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:57.519
<v Speaker 4>and the female, so typically the male owl is smaller

800
00:45:57.599 --> 00:46:02.320
<v Speaker 4>than the female. There's lots of hypotheses about why there's

801
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:06.320
<v Speaker 4>this reverse sexual dimorphism, this male's being smaller than the

802
00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:10.000
<v Speaker 4>female's being larger. Be that as it may. The male

803
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:14.880
<v Speaker 4>is primarily the provider of food. They go out and

804
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:18.320
<v Speaker 4>forage and catch prey, bring it back to the female

805
00:46:18.320 --> 00:46:21.280
<v Speaker 4>who's sitting on the nest, and the female basically after

806
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:24.840
<v Speaker 4>she's laid the egg. She incubates him by herself and

807
00:46:25.159 --> 00:46:28.800
<v Speaker 4>primarily broods the young, and the male brings her food

808
00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:32.400
<v Speaker 4>short king. She only leaves the nest to defecate and

809
00:46:32.519 --> 00:46:35.880
<v Speaker 4>to do feather maintenance and the light or come out

810
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:39.559
<v Speaker 4>and receive prey. Zach Pierry one of my colleagues that

811
00:46:39.599 --> 00:46:43.079
<v Speaker 4>I work with the University of Wisconsin, he had a

812
00:46:43.199 --> 00:46:47.320
<v Speaker 4>graduate student, Siena Zulu, and Siana would climb up these

813
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:50.639
<v Speaker 4>trees and put a night camera on the nest and

814
00:46:51.159 --> 00:46:54.559
<v Speaker 4>would determine what the prey was. And in this particular video,

815
00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:58.079
<v Speaker 4>you first see a male owl coming in and landing

816
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:01.639
<v Speaker 4>and depositing a wood rat, and then the female coming

817
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:04.840
<v Speaker 4>from somewhere else and going into the nest, and then

818
00:47:04.840 --> 00:47:07.480
<v Speaker 4>you see the little baby pop ups up its head.

819
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:11.159
<v Speaker 4>But normally what happens is the male will arrive at

820
00:47:11.199 --> 00:47:14.719
<v Speaker 4>the nest with a prey item, and he'll give a

821
00:47:14.960 --> 00:47:18.239
<v Speaker 4>soft call or a hoot, and the female will come

822
00:47:18.280 --> 00:47:20.079
<v Speaker 4>out of the nest, and then he'll fly over to

823
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:22.320
<v Speaker 4>her and she takes it from him, and then she

824
00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:25.400
<v Speaker 4>goes back in, and because the young are too small

825
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:29.280
<v Speaker 4>to really handle the prey, she'll tear it apart. And

826
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:32.079
<v Speaker 4>feed them bits and the things that they can't eat,

827
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:34.239
<v Speaker 4>like the skull. She just pops them down.

828
00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:39.440
<v Speaker 2>A delivery for mom breakfast in bed, fresh dead rodents.

829
00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:43.199
<v Speaker 2>When you've got fuzzy tiny screaming outlets every day his

830
00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:45.159
<v Speaker 2>mother's day. What co parenting?

831
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:49.840
<v Speaker 4>So one time I had a project leader who was

832
00:47:50.000 --> 00:47:52.320
<v Speaker 4>leading one of a projects in southern California on the

833
00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:56.079
<v Speaker 4>San Berdandino Mountains, Bill Lahay, and he called me up

834
00:47:56.119 --> 00:47:57.480
<v Speaker 4>and he said, I want to show you this nest.

835
00:47:57.559 --> 00:48:00.639
<v Speaker 4>He said, this female has not moved off the nest

836
00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:04.480
<v Speaker 4>for like two weeks. And I said, ah, that's pretty

837
00:48:04.519 --> 00:48:08.679
<v Speaker 4>weird because oftentimes when you feed the male mouse to

838
00:48:08.760 --> 00:48:10.559
<v Speaker 4>try to determine whether or not they have a nest,

839
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:13.079
<v Speaker 4>because the male will take the mouse to the nest

840
00:48:13.119 --> 00:48:15.480
<v Speaker 4>and you chase them through the forest while he twined

841
00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:18.880
<v Speaker 4>to the nest, and that's how we define the nest. Anyway,

842
00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:22.280
<v Speaker 4>this female wasn't doing that. So we went out and

843
00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:24.960
<v Speaker 4>looked at it, and you could see the female's head,

844
00:48:26.039 --> 00:48:28.000
<v Speaker 4>just the top of her head, and this broken top

845
00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:32.239
<v Speaker 4>tree and her tail sticking up. And we walked around

846
00:48:32.280 --> 00:48:33.519
<v Speaker 4>around and looked at this and looked at this, and

847
00:48:33.639 --> 00:48:36.239
<v Speaker 4>I says, you know, you ought to climb this adjacent

848
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:38.159
<v Speaker 4>tree and just look in there and see what's going on.

849
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:42.199
<v Speaker 4>So Bill, being an expert tree climber, he scrambles up

850
00:48:42.239 --> 00:48:45.960
<v Speaker 4>the tree and looks in and he says, I think

851
00:48:46.039 --> 00:48:50.079
<v Speaker 4>she's dead. I says, yeah. So he came back down

852
00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:52.440
<v Speaker 4>and he puts some climbing spurs on and went up

853
00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:56.079
<v Speaker 4>this broken top tree and he reaches in there and

854
00:48:56.239 --> 00:49:02.840
<v Speaker 4>this female had died and the egg was in her breast. So,

855
00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:05.920
<v Speaker 4>in other words, she starved to death. We think, well,

856
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:10.960
<v Speaker 4>waiting for the thing, and she was so tenacious too. Well,

857
00:49:11.119 --> 00:49:14.159
<v Speaker 4>this is what we're speculating. She didn't want to give

858
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:17.360
<v Speaker 4>up incubating that egg, and so if it was a

859
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:19.440
<v Speaker 4>bad year and the male couldn't bring her nest, she

860
00:49:19.679 --> 00:49:21.159
<v Speaker 4>just hung on as long as she could and then

861
00:49:21.199 --> 00:49:24.719
<v Speaker 4>it was too late. The alternative, of course, is she

862
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:27.840
<v Speaker 4>got some disease or something happened to her. You know,

863
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:30.440
<v Speaker 4>it didn't look like anything other than she had starved

864
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:33.199
<v Speaker 4>to death because she was emaciated. So it was really

865
00:49:33.280 --> 00:49:35.039
<v Speaker 4>it was sort of sad, but it gets to your

866
00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:37.920
<v Speaker 4>point about being you know, good parents. I mean they

867
00:49:38.000 --> 00:49:41.199
<v Speaker 4>are tenacious parents. They will take care of the young.

868
00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:44.199
<v Speaker 2>So, as we mentioned in the Lutronology episode, which was

869
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:47.960
<v Speaker 2>a devastating expose on outer behavior, a mother otter might

870
00:49:48.039 --> 00:49:51.079
<v Speaker 2>be on the brink of death because she's nursing offspring

871
00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:53.480
<v Speaker 2>who were old enough to forage on their own, and

872
00:49:53.519 --> 00:49:55.400
<v Speaker 2>they just keep going back to the teeth. And this

873
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:57.360
<v Speaker 2>is none of my business, but I'm pissed at those

874
00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:59.719
<v Speaker 2>otter children. Also, next week, we're going to talk more

875
00:49:59.719 --> 00:50:03.320
<v Speaker 2>about spotted owl ecology and which owls in the world

876
00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:06.280
<v Speaker 2>are the most threatened. But how can you know right

877
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:08.679
<v Speaker 2>now if you are neighbors with an owl. Do you

878
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:10.639
<v Speaker 2>know you've got an owl nest around if you see

879
00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:14.760
<v Speaker 2>pellets in a certain area? And also why do they,

880
00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:19.360
<v Speaker 2>unlike all these other birds, have to kind of barf

881
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:21.880
<v Speaker 2>up a clot of limbs and bones.

882
00:50:22.519 --> 00:50:26.599
<v Speaker 4>If you find pellets, that does not necessarily mean that

883
00:50:26.679 --> 00:50:30.880
<v Speaker 4>there's an owl nest near, mind, because an owl could

884
00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:36.039
<v Speaker 4>be nesting somewhere else and roosting there and depositing pellets

885
00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:36.599
<v Speaker 4>at the roost.

886
00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:39.719
<v Speaker 2>And a nest side note, is where they warm and

887
00:50:39.840 --> 00:50:42.760
<v Speaker 2>they feed them babies. But a roost can be a

888
00:50:42.880 --> 00:50:45.480
<v Speaker 2>nearby spot that they like to nap during the day.

889
00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:46.519
<v Speaker 2>Just generally chill.

890
00:50:46.760 --> 00:50:50.320
<v Speaker 4>It usually means that the nest is somewhere in proximity,

891
00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:54.719
<v Speaker 4>but not necessarily all that close. And the other thing

892
00:50:54.920 --> 00:50:59.440
<v Speaker 4>is about these pellets, as you mentioned. So I started

893
00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:02.559
<v Speaker 4>thinking about what do you call it when you study pellets,

894
00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:07.360
<v Speaker 4>you know, because see there's scatology right where there's audy

895
00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:10.239
<v Speaker 4>of feces, you know. And I started trying to figure

896
00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:13.559
<v Speaker 4>this out, reading books and looking things up, and couldn't

897
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:15.800
<v Speaker 4>found anything. Well, you know, I guess you could call

898
00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:21.920
<v Speaker 4>it barthology, where they're barfing these these pellets up, yes,

899
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:24.519
<v Speaker 4>from me, But let me back up one second. Here

900
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:29.199
<v Speaker 4>is that pellets are cast by over three hundred species

901
00:51:29.199 --> 00:51:32.559
<v Speaker 4>of birds, so it's not restricted to owls. So lots

902
00:51:32.599 --> 00:51:35.519
<v Speaker 4>and lots of species do this, but the owls seem

903
00:51:35.599 --> 00:51:39.000
<v Speaker 4>to form the biggest massive ones. And it turns out

904
00:51:39.400 --> 00:51:43.519
<v Speaker 4>that the avian stomach has two parts, and one is

905
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:47.639
<v Speaker 4>a glandular part like our stomach. They call it proculus,

906
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:50.239
<v Speaker 4>and then the other part is the ventriculus, which is

907
00:51:50.320 --> 00:51:53.239
<v Speaker 4>what we think of is the gizzard. So you have

908
00:51:53.440 --> 00:51:56.199
<v Speaker 4>like this real stomach and then this like grinding organ

909
00:51:56.639 --> 00:52:00.239
<v Speaker 4>called the gizzard, and all the soft parts get sort

910
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:03.519
<v Speaker 4>of digested and broken down in the stomach part and

911
00:52:03.639 --> 00:52:08.159
<v Speaker 4>then move over to the gizzard where it's more finding

912
00:52:08.239 --> 00:52:11.559
<v Speaker 4>ground up. Well. In the case of the owl, it

913
00:52:11.719 --> 00:52:17.280
<v Speaker 4>turns out that the pH of their stomach acids is

914
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:22.719
<v Speaker 4>higher than a raptor, for example, So raptor is like

915
00:52:22.840 --> 00:52:25.320
<v Speaker 4>a pH at one point eight or something like that,

916
00:52:25.480 --> 00:52:27.480
<v Speaker 4>and an owl is like two point five and.

917
00:52:27.559 --> 00:52:32.559
<v Speaker 2>Higher pH remember, means it's a weaker acid. Confusing, but that's.

918
00:52:32.559 --> 00:52:36.920
<v Speaker 4>Enough of a difference that they cannot digest these big bones,

919
00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:40.760
<v Speaker 4>the hair and all that sorts. Whereas many of the

920
00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:44.280
<v Speaker 4>typical raptors they adjust a lot of the bones, they

921
00:52:44.360 --> 00:52:46.880
<v Speaker 4>still cast pellets of stuff, but they'll digest some of

922
00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:49.760
<v Speaker 4>the small bones. The owls don't do that. And so

923
00:52:50.039 --> 00:52:53.400
<v Speaker 4>as as the soft parts are being digested and moved

924
00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:58.760
<v Speaker 4>to the gizzard, the other undigestible parts that can't be

925
00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:02.599
<v Speaker 4>broken down are pushed to the top of the stomach

926
00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:06.840
<v Speaker 4>and sort of compacted Derek. And then once the digestion

927
00:53:07.119 --> 00:53:11.599
<v Speaker 4>process is completed, it has formed a little mat that

928
00:53:11.719 --> 00:53:14.519
<v Speaker 4>looks like a little turd, you know. But depending on

929
00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:16.159
<v Speaker 4>the size of the owl, you know, the bigger the owl,

930
00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:19.199
<v Speaker 4>the bigger the pellet and then they up chuck them.

931
00:53:19.559 --> 00:53:23.760
<v Speaker 4>They barf them up delicious. People have speculated that this

932
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:27.400
<v Speaker 4>is a constant the time of it takes them to

933
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:31.039
<v Speaker 4>make this pellet and regurgitate. It is probably related to

934
00:53:31.119 --> 00:53:33.719
<v Speaker 4>the size of the meal that they get in there.

935
00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:38.320
<v Speaker 4>And I actually think that in some circumstances, if their

936
00:53:38.360 --> 00:53:42.320
<v Speaker 4>pellet is already formed and you offer them a prey,

937
00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:45.400
<v Speaker 4>I've seen them actually look at the prey and then

938
00:53:45.920 --> 00:53:48.960
<v Speaker 4>start up chucking a pellet and then come down and

939
00:53:49.039 --> 00:53:50.320
<v Speaker 4>get the one that you just put it out.

940
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:52.719
<v Speaker 2>They're like, let me make a little room, but they can't.

941
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:57.800
<v Speaker 4>Form it immediately. They're basically saying, well, you know, let's

942
00:53:57.840 --> 00:53:59.159
<v Speaker 4>get their show on the road here.

943
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:03.599
<v Speaker 2>Can I ask you some questions from listeners? Are you

944
00:54:03.639 --> 00:54:04.039
<v Speaker 2>doing okay?

945
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:07.000
<v Speaker 4>I know I've kept you all right, I've got all

946
00:54:07.000 --> 00:54:07.639
<v Speaker 4>the time you want.

947
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Okay, amazing.

948
00:54:08.880 --> 00:54:09.599
<v Speaker 4>I love this.

949
00:54:11.199 --> 00:54:14.800
<v Speaker 2>So ask visionary people blurry questions. And thank you so

950
00:54:14.920 --> 00:54:17.760
<v Speaker 2>much again to our j Rocky Gutierrez for being on

951
00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:20.159
<v Speaker 2>not just this week, but next week as well. We'll

952
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:22.280
<v Speaker 2>have part two. We have links in the show notes

953
00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:24.480
<v Speaker 2>to find out more about Rocky, and of course we

954
00:54:24.599 --> 00:54:27.119
<v Speaker 2>post more research on our website. This will be at

955
00:54:27.119 --> 00:54:30.960
<v Speaker 2>Aliward dot com, slash Ologies slash strigga Formology. Next week

956
00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:33.480
<v Speaker 2>we are back with all of your juicy owl questions

957
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:38.079
<v Speaker 2>like Parliament's barnes barred owls, if you should hoot at

958
00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:41.760
<v Speaker 2>your owl friends, omens, folklore, what not to put in

959
00:54:41.840 --> 00:54:45.239
<v Speaker 2>your yard? A homicide case that has baffled detectives and

960
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:48.639
<v Speaker 2>ornithologists alike, and so much more. So Stay tuned and

961
00:54:48.760 --> 00:54:51.119
<v Speaker 2>come back for that Part two next week, and we

962
00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:53.360
<v Speaker 2>are at Ologies on Instagram a blue sky. I'm at

963
00:54:53.440 --> 00:54:57.119
<v Speaker 2>Aliward on Both smologies are shorter kid friendly episodes available

964
00:54:57.159 --> 00:55:00.840
<v Speaker 2>wherever you find podcasts. Just search Smologies s MO l

965
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:04.159
<v Speaker 2>O g I E. S. Ologies Merch has tots and

966
00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:07.480
<v Speaker 2>shirts and hats at ologiesmerch dot com. Thank you to

967
00:55:07.679 --> 00:55:10.599
<v Speaker 2>patrons at patreon dot com slash ologies for supporting the show.

968
00:55:10.840 --> 00:55:13.559
<v Speaker 2>They also get first DIBs on tickets for live events,

969
00:55:13.639 --> 00:55:16.239
<v Speaker 2>which is another perk for a dollar a month if

970
00:55:16.280 --> 00:55:19.519
<v Speaker 2>you join. Thank you also to Aaron Talbert, who admins

971
00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:23.239
<v Speaker 2>the Ologies podcast Facebook group. Aveline Malick makes our professional transcripts.

972
00:55:23.400 --> 00:55:23.719
<v Speaker 4>Kelly R.

973
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Dwyer does the website. Nocturnal and Diurnal scheduling producer is

974
00:55:27.639 --> 00:55:31.079
<v Speaker 2>Noel Dilworth. Our eagle eyed managing director is Susan Hale.

975
00:55:31.360 --> 00:55:34.000
<v Speaker 2>The pair of editors sharing the branch is Jake Chafe

976
00:55:34.159 --> 00:55:37.519
<v Speaker 2>and lead editor Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. Nick thorburn

977
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:40.039
<v Speaker 2>Hoo died out the theme music. And if you stick

978
00:55:40.159 --> 00:55:43.599
<v Speaker 2>around until the very end, you know I might tell

979
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:46.119
<v Speaker 2>you a secret. I will tell you a secret, whether

980
00:55:46.239 --> 00:55:47.760
<v Speaker 2>you want to or not. And this week it's that

981
00:55:47.800 --> 00:55:50.840
<v Speaker 2>whenever I have to transfer files via an SD card

982
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:53.599
<v Speaker 2>from my recording device onto my laptop, I have to

983
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:56.639
<v Speaker 2>use a dongle, right because life isn't hard enough in

984
00:55:56.719 --> 00:55:59.760
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty five. But little secret, I usually just rip

985
00:55:59.880 --> 00:56:03.360
<v Speaker 2>the dongle out without properly hitting the eject icon. And

986
00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:06.119
<v Speaker 2>I know one day this is going to ruin my life,

987
00:56:06.199 --> 00:56:09.639
<v Speaker 2>but I've gotten away with it thus far. So feel

988
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:12.159
<v Speaker 2>free to either like soothe my soul and tell me

989
00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:14.800
<v Speaker 2>it's fine, or you can scare me straight on this one.

990
00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:18.679
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate it in advance. Okay, more owls, more rocky

991
00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:23.119
<v Speaker 2>next week, and so good. Okay, we're about pacodermatology, homology

992
00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:34.480
<v Speaker 2>or doo zoology, lithology, Yeah, zechonology, meteorology, matternology, technology, zeiology, selology.

993
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:42.039
<v Speaker 2>The owls are beautiful,