WEBVTT 1 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:29.399 Are our non reverend saints. We must focus, our brothers, 2 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:32.679 We must focus. So thank you, ladies, gentlemen, for coming 3 00:00:32.679 --> 00:00:35.600 to the official episode of Everyday black Mail Podcast, a 4 00:00:35.679 --> 00:00:37.280 podcast authentic black mail thoughts. 5 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:40.200 You have your boy Wriker here, you got Reed Sham 6 00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:43.159 white House, you stylish the writer. 7 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:45.520 The only person we. 8 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:48.200 Don't have to fear is Armstead and black Linterian, but 9 00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:50.320 I'm pretty sure one of the two will join us 10 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:53.359 midway through the episode. But most importantly, we have a 11 00:00:53.479 --> 00:00:56.479 bunch of guests, and I mean a bunch of guests. 12 00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:57.880 We have our. 13 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:03.039 Second time on the podcast as a guest, doctor Gucci, 14 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.359 and we also have coming today for a special guest spot. 15 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:10.400 We have doctor Donovan and he's gonna tell us a 16 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:14.400 little bit more about a documentary that he's working on, 17 00:01:14.560 --> 00:01:16.400 and then we were going to ask some questions, but 18 00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:18.879 doctor Donovan, we're going to clear the floor for you. 19 00:01:19.719 --> 00:01:22.359 Of course, you also grow out to the Patreon, but 20 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:24.439 tell us tell us a little bit more about what 21 00:01:24.560 --> 00:01:25.760 made you decide. 22 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:27.680 To get into making a documentary and also tell the 23 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:29.560 folks a little bit more about what it's about. 24 00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:33.319 I want to thank you for inviting me to this podcast. 25 00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:36.400 To speak of the doctor vinry that I've been working on. 26 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:41.000 It's called breaking Barriers Black Males into Medicine. So the 27 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:44.439 reason why I made this documentary because I've been in 28 00:01:44.599 --> 00:01:48.319 medical education for over forty years. I worked at various 29 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:55.280 medical schools across the country, and around twenty fifteen, the WMC, 30 00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:59.959 which is the U brother the Association of American Medical Colleges, 31 00:02:00.560 --> 00:02:04.760 I came out with this this report talking about that 32 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:09.080 black males since nineteen seventy eight, the numbers have been 33 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:15.840 decreasing representation in medicine, and for black women the numbers 34 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:19.759 have been have been increasing since nineteen eighty six. So 35 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:24.439 as I was getting my dissertation, I wanted to really 36 00:02:24.479 --> 00:02:29.120 look at this problem from a not from what's going on, 37 00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:32.240 but by deaths about the meaning what are the things 38 00:02:32.360 --> 00:02:35.000 that you know black males don't have and what are 39 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:37.360 some of the things that are impacting them. I really 40 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.960 wanted to find solutions to the problem. So this was 41 00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:44.680 part of my dissertation and I decided to turn it 42 00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:50.680 into a documentary because I think there's not been many 43 00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:57.240 conversations around this this epidemic and the numbers really with 44 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:02.560 a double ABC since in nineteen seventy eight is really false. 45 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:04.159 It's actually since nineteen forty. 46 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:08.719 The numbers have in nineteen the percentage of black males 47 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:12.199 in nineteen forty that we're in medical school were two 48 00:03:12.240 --> 00:03:16.520 point seven. Am hearing today the number six state hadn't 49 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:18.840 gone up, but they kind of dipped a little bit 50 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:22.120 at two point six. So this is a problem that 51 00:03:22.879 --> 00:03:27.599 really impacts the overall health. Health is wealth, and one 52 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:30.719 of this documentary is based out of the city of Detroit. 53 00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:34.039 Detroit is one that is due I think mythis has 54 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:38.240 to pass it as the predominantly black city, but this 55 00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:43.479 is if the impact of black males really cause a 56 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:47.000 lot of health disparities. And the reason why we see 57 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:49.879 why it's so important to know is because we had 58 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:53.439 off the off the conversation we're having about the Super Bowl. 59 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:57.039 You see predominantly black males and athletics. And one of 60 00:03:57.039 --> 00:03:59.879 the reason why you see predominantly black males in medicine, 61 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:04.080 I mean and afflex is because of because it's money 62 00:04:04.120 --> 00:04:07.199 in it. Okay, it's money in having black mails and 63 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:12.000 you can control their bodies. There's not any money, ah, No, 64 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:14.800 not any money when it comes to black males as 65 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:19.040 physicians because the money is keeping a black community six 66 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:24.720 due to pharmaceuticals, right I. Diabetes is one of the things, hypertension, 67 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:30.759 you know, all these different you know, uh, preventative medicine, 68 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:35.920 Preventative diseases can be preventative and all the with all 69 00:04:35.959 --> 00:04:39.279 the researcher says, black men are the most likely to 70 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:43.199 practice in their community, to practice in the underserved community. 71 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:47.759 So the lack of black males in medicine, it's. 72 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:53.240 Impacted overall health of the Black community and communities that 73 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:56.279 have lack of access to health. So this is why 74 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.560 it's so critical that we really uh look at the 75 00:05:00.040 --> 00:05:02.079 This is why this documentary is so important that to 76 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:06.000 bring this probable to the masses. Because of medical school, 77 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:09.639 they've known this. This is nothing new in the medical field. 78 00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:12.399 Everyone does. This is something that they talk about all 79 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:15.720 the time. But the money is not in the solution. 80 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:19.120 The money is in the problem. So this is why 81 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:21.720 I made this documentary. This is the second documentary that 82 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:24.959 was one made by like Me and the White Coats. 83 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:30.120 This is another documentary to really you know, talk about this, 84 00:05:30.839 --> 00:05:34.360 to create a forum to talk about this problem. 85 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:37.839 Well, excellent and thank you for kind of diving into it. 86 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:39.360 I know that question. 87 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:43.639 Go ahead, Red, all right, Hey, so the one thing 88 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:47.720 that I've noticed about doctors. Let's go so doctors begin doctors? 89 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:52.079 Me like, so, uh, second generation doctors, third generation doctors. 90 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:55.040 Do you think that's part of the problem. And just 91 00:05:55.240 --> 00:05:56.920 throw a little thing on this. I know a lot 92 00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:59.639 of black people who are becoming doctors, but they aren't 93 00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:04.160 Black Americans. They are like immigrants or immigrants children, which 94 00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:07.160 are Black Americans. But I'm saying there's a difference without 95 00:06:07.199 --> 00:06:09.839 the distinction there. But what do you think that's the 96 00:06:09.920 --> 00:06:14.800 case too? As well as you know you hit, you 97 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:17.639 hit the doll over the head, brother, that is cover. 98 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:23.800 That's that's a very controversial topic in medicine. One of 99 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:31.920 my good one of my mentors uh doctor doctor times uh, 100 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:35.959 he's come up with this. Who really is a position? 101 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.199 He's out in uh ran rapids, you know, he's out 102 00:06:39.279 --> 00:06:43.720 in in Harvard, Michigan, and he really always talks about 103 00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:49.680 like called dosa. Uh it's called the descendants enslave people. 104 00:06:50.199 --> 00:06:53.000 Oh that's just nothing, love that nature. And he really 105 00:06:53.120 --> 00:06:57.439 talks about when we look at African American males, you 106 00:06:57.519 --> 00:07:00.399 look at the ones who come from you know, the 107 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.680 historical slave trade numbers are even worse, like the numbers 108 00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:09.240 are private, like point two point two point five, So 109 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:14.160 you're right, you know, yeah. But also what's very interesting 110 00:07:14.360 --> 00:07:16.959 is if you look at those those uh, those ones 111 00:07:16.959 --> 00:07:21.279 who come from Africa, the Caribbee, just the second generation, 112 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:24.879 those ones who are coming into you know, medisine now 113 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:28.639 are practice of medicine. I guarantee their first generation because 114 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:33.759 when the second generation experiences are just like African Americans, right, 115 00:07:33.879 --> 00:07:39.600 because they have been indoctrinated into the into the into 116 00:07:39.720 --> 00:07:45.720 America's uh, euro centric education system, which I don't. 117 00:07:45.560 --> 00:07:48.399 Think they would give They wouldn't give that dedication to 118 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:52.720 the black community. They would give to their own distinct communities. 119 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.839 And that would be different versus Black community, wouldn't it 120 00:07:55.879 --> 00:08:00.600 be that like uh, well, like doctor would probably being 121 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:03.519 a Nigerian neighborhood. Not necessarily they're probably following money. 122 00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:06.480 They're like, I got a question about that. Read what 123 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:07.040 you're saying. 124 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:09.439 I was thinking about. 125 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:12.560 It's not a I don't think it's always like as 126 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:13.360 black and white. 127 00:08:13.519 --> 00:08:17.160 Do you like when those first generation and second generation 128 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:21.319 Africans come here, there's not a what's the word a 129 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:25.560 hindrance and confidence and capability because I look at I 130 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:28.319 look at I'll say, my family. We get two black 131 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:32.039 doctors in the family, and my mother automatically assumes the 132 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:34.759 woman is a nurse all the time, and like we're 133 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:36.519 looking at her like we got to like yo, children, 134 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:40.480 because not disrespectful, because the nurses a respectable position. But 135 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:44.320 I think it's like a degradation of confidence within like 136 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:47.519 the community where how many black families coming up from 137 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:50.639 poverty like encourage their kids to be doctors versus like 138 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:53.879 you said, Uh, it's a family that I has one, 139 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:55.159 and you know there's a. 140 00:08:55.279 --> 00:08:58.360 Second when your parents can pay for you to be 141 00:08:58.440 --> 00:08:58.879 a doctor. 142 00:09:00.200 --> 00:09:02.440 That's what I was saying, Like, well, I mean it's 143 00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:05.159 not even just the case though my cousin, Uh, he 144 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:07.519 didn't come from the same background I did with the 145 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:10.080 Harvard and all that. You know, it's just also knowing 146 00:09:10.200 --> 00:09:13.720 that rule. Well, no, I'm not talking about the exception 147 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:16.840 the fact that he knew how to navigate certain navigues 148 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:19.120 when it came to fundy. It wasn't like nobody told 149 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:19.799 him to be a doctor. 150 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:23.000 We heard that. We were like, oh, ship, like you know, 151 00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:25.039 but yeah, exactly. 152 00:09:27.879 --> 00:09:30.320 Positions I know they get into like sports medicine, and 153 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:31.440 I'm like, it's not there. 154 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:36.080 Yeah, So I think again what the doctor was saying 155 00:09:36.960 --> 00:09:40.600 is that, you know, there's many motivations for people getting 156 00:09:40.600 --> 00:09:41.200 into medicine. 157 00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:46.799 Well, actually his documentary, if you watch the color, it 158 00:09:46.919 --> 00:09:47.600 does say that. 159 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:51.639 Yeah, And I'm also an inspiring physician and working on 160 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:55.000 navigating this very very treacherous water. 161 00:09:55.360 --> 00:09:58.120 It isn't easy. Financing is only one problem. 162 00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:01.799 And even if you're a generation physician, right, like let's 163 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:04.240 say your parents are physicians or your family had physicians 164 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:06.639 and then they they helped you get along the bandwagon, right, 165 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:11.279 there's also many challenges within becoming a doctor. And then 166 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:14.360 when you are a doctor, there is a lot of 167 00:10:14.519 --> 00:10:17.759 challenges within there. And you know that that navigating that 168 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:22.159 field it can be very arguous when you don't have 169 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.039 guidance in the field. So that's also a major difference. 170 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.759 And actually, when you're going back to like why you 171 00:10:28.840 --> 00:10:33.720 know black physicians are on decline, you know, there's many factors. 172 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:35.919 In history plays a huge part of it, whereas in 173 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:38.960 education when it comes to black men, very huge part. 174 00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:41.720 Also when it comes to the black culture in America 175 00:10:42.360 --> 00:10:47.039 being how do you say, de educated, demonetized, they were attacked. 176 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:51.279 So when they had an upcome coming just after was 177 00:10:51.360 --> 00:10:52.600 it the Civil War? 178 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:55.440 The Yeah, after the Civil War where you had black 179 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:57.279 trying to get get ahead and they were starting to 180 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:00.879 get ahead, and then you have the this establishment actually 181 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:02.519 attacked them to break them down. 182 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:03.360 You know. 183 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:05.399 That also had an effect on. 184 00:11:07.720 --> 00:11:09.399 Educational standards and things. That's what they do. 185 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:10.840 That's when the price of education. 186 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:14.200 But there was also a bounce back when it came. 187 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:17.480 To actually, you know HBCUs HBCU saw this and saying, 188 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:19.120 you know what, we need to go ahead and attack 189 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:21.000 this issue. So we're going to create our own schools 190 00:11:21.320 --> 00:11:24.320 so that they could actually you know, challenge the status quote, 191 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:24.960 which they've done. 192 00:11:25.159 --> 00:11:29.440 But it still is a very arguous path to navigate. 193 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:36.960 And I think that one that's inspiring to be a physicians. 194 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:37.519 You guys. 195 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:40.519 Yeah, what I was gonna say is, I mean, let's 196 00:11:40.519 --> 00:11:42.720 hear about it from the other side, doctor Gucci. What 197 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:47.000 was it like navigating the waters in another country versus 198 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:48.399 navigating the waters here? 199 00:11:50.279 --> 00:11:56.799 Yeah? Good after everyone just to be here. Yeah, medicine 200 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:03.759 in in Nigeria of his meeting in America are quite 201 00:12:04.279 --> 00:12:08.519 very different entities, although it's the same storyline. Metine. But 202 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:15.159 the practice is you know, much more different, because first 203 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:19.120 of all, you see very different kinds of diseases. Most 204 00:12:19.159 --> 00:12:21.120 of the diseases come on here are not very very 205 00:12:21.159 --> 00:12:24.720 common over there, you know. You know, in Nigeria, I 206 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:26.960 was still think we're still talking about things like polio, 207 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.120 were still talking about things like malaria. You know, these 208 00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:32.240 are things that have been eradicated. You know in the 209 00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:39.000 developed countries. You know, there are set in diseases we saw, 210 00:12:40.039 --> 00:12:42.240 you know, we just told oh, if you happen to 211 00:12:42.279 --> 00:12:45.240 travel abroad, you see this. But you know, trust me, 212 00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:48.960 I haven't been in I haven't navigated med school here 213 00:12:49.000 --> 00:12:52.080 in the you know, in the in the US or 214 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:56.159 in the Caribbean US community. I know for a fact 215 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:59.080 that I've seen and have you know, been able to 216 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:06.039 witness some of these conditions. Even also, the medical curriculum 217 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:10.240 is also streamlined in a way that you have a 218 00:13:10.360 --> 00:13:15.399 straight seven year metic cause in Nigeria and Visavis. Yeah, 219 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:17.720 you go to the sciences first, you know, graduate from 220 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:20.679 the sciences and then you know, you go straight into 221 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.159 metine for another four years. So the curriculums are quite different. 222 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:26.360 But at the end of the day, it's the same alcohol, 223 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:29.440 which is meting. But again the pattern of diseases you see, 224 00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:34.519 you know, like in in Nigeria, I talk about malaria. 225 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:36.919 In America, you talk about that asius is. You know, 226 00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:39.919 most of those cancers you know we see and read 227 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:44.600 on reading books are just are things that we you know, 228 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:49.519 we're reading passing. But here you begin to see that 229 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:51.840 you get to see a different pattern of you know, 230 00:13:51.960 --> 00:13:53.759 diseases that you see, but which is good because you 231 00:13:53.840 --> 00:13:56.360 have a perfect blend of what is obtainable in Africa 232 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.440 and what is obtainable back in the years. Talking about 233 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.440 the topic for today, which is about you know, black 234 00:14:04.519 --> 00:14:08.639 men in medicine, I feel that, yeah, I heard when 235 00:14:08.679 --> 00:14:11.879 the doctor said that the numbers have been very constant. 236 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:15.559 It's been very very constant since the forties, and you know, 237 00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:18.240 at two point six, two point seven, it's still not 238 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:23.240 enough because we need we definitely, we definitely need more 239 00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:26.080 black people in metine. To be honest, We're definitely more 240 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:31.159 black people and more black men in meeting because this 241 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:35.000 will Having more black people in meeting helps with you know, 242 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:37.919 the health disparities. You know, it helps to cush on 243 00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:41.000 the head disparity that you have and helps us to 244 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:45.080 build trust you know, within the community, within within the 245 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:50.879 population here. I also believe that, you know, having more 246 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:54.399 black people in medicine will help with you know, increasing 247 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:59.360 and you know, increasing access to healthcare. And I think 248 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:01.840 the bottom line is that trust. So if you if 249 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.240 you trust the system, you would you want to you know, 250 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:07.440 commit further, you want to commit more to the to 251 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:10.840 the process. So, yeah, we really do need more black 252 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:11.600 people in medicine. 253 00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:18.759 Thank you, doctor. Uh sorry, do you have something doctor, Yeah. 254 00:15:19.960 --> 00:15:22.639 Yeah, okay, So I was talking about I was trying to, 255 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:25.679 you know, make some adducement for some of the reasons 256 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:29.080 why we have some of these you know, dis reductions 257 00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:34.320 in black males in medicine. I think from statistics, you 258 00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:38.279 find out that you know, two tots of the population 259 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:42.240 of doctors are white. That's a huge chunk, about sixty 260 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:45.960 five point six percent, you know, you know quite you 261 00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:49.200 know further, eighteen percent are Asians and eight point nine 262 00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:52.960 percent that Hispanics or Latinos. I have just five percents 263 00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:56.240 for you know, for black doctors. And of that two 264 00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:59.559 point eight you know identify as black women and you know, 265 00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:01.240 to six for the men. 266 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:02.799 So that's two. 267 00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:05.519 Point six is really really small. I also believe that 268 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:08.080 what the reasons for that, you know, some of the 269 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:11.360 reasons why that number it's very very low, you know, 270 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.120 has to do with discrimination, you know, racial and financial disparities. 271 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:17.600 You know, when you compare you know, the white vis 272 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.279 against the blacks for the most part. And you know 273 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:24.960 the fact that you know, if you have less people, 274 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:28.519 less black males in medicine, you know, you have less mentorship, 275 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:33.039 you know, and that will also effect you know, mentorship 276 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:37.039 and you know, networking. So if you have more people 277 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:40.080 in metine, you have more mentorship and you have more networking, 278 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:44.360 you know, these avis. And then there's already this you know, 279 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:47.320 the media has been patent in such a way that 280 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:52.960 you know, they give a kind of negative disposition towards minorities, 281 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:56.720 and this creates a kind of i would say, maybe 282 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:01.120 internalized ptereotypes. You know, so that also has a wealth 283 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:03.679 affecting the psyche of you know, an average person who's 284 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:10.240 trying to you know, get into medicine and all that. So, yeah, 285 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:11.799 go ahead, No, I was going to. 286 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:17.480 Ask a question, sorry to interrupted, uh, with your experience 287 00:17:17.559 --> 00:17:22.000 overseas out of the country versus here, have you ran 288 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.240 into the disparity and just classes or you know. 289 00:17:28.359 --> 00:17:31.839 Some the nepotism of students in MAD school that. 290 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:35.519 Come from you know, second third generation of I'm specifically 291 00:17:35.559 --> 00:17:39.400 target the white white uh MAD students and doctors too, 292 00:17:40.279 --> 00:17:45.519 you know, the intimidation tactics or judgmental uh you know active, 293 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.240 what's the judgmental uh practices towards you know, the black 294 00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.480 or brown skinned you know, students and whatnot. 295 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:54.319 Like that's a is it? 296 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.839 Is it anything like that going on over there versus 297 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.920 you know here, like you spoke of the discriminations and separation. 298 00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:03.359 Yeah, so. 299 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.680 I trained, I trained back in Anigeria and I also 300 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.279 elected to retrain back here in the in the US. 301 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:13.039 So I attended. 302 00:18:13.880 --> 00:18:16.960 You know, I'll use my I use myself as an example. 303 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:20.279 I went back to a Caribbean med school here. And 304 00:18:20.519 --> 00:18:22.799 you know, even in the med school, the way you 305 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:25.039 could see you could see those stereotypes, you could see 306 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:27.720 those you could see that disparity as well. You know, 307 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.359 the school I went to is largely populated by you know, 308 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.400 the whites from you know, like American whites, you know 309 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:38.400 vis a vis you know, you still have some blacks too, 310 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:42.640 But you could also see how you know, even in 311 00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:46.519 class and how you know, when we have setting programs together, 312 00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:49.400 how setting set of people, even though they don't try to. 313 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:50.519 Make it very very. 314 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:55.359 Obvious, but you can also see that some setting set 315 00:18:55.359 --> 00:18:58.039 of people are favored, you know, more than the other 316 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:00.200 set of people. We see these things, but we just 317 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:04.839 act like you know, it's you know, the way the 318 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:10.400 way sometimes some of these you know, collect teachers or 319 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:14.319 professors will treat the same kind of students, it's not 320 00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:16.920 the same way they will treat you know, an immigrant 321 00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:19.359 or you know, like somebody coming a black person or 322 00:19:19.359 --> 00:19:22.160 somebody coming from India or you know, so it's also 323 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:26.640 also different. And if you have an Indian professor, the 324 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:29.240 way he's going to treat Indians, it's not the same 325 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.880 way he's going to treat you know, an average black 326 00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:35.519 person like me coming from Nigeria in the US going 327 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:39.000 to a Carribean med school. So it's those things are 328 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:42.720 always there, and so to some extent, collectively has a 329 00:19:42.759 --> 00:19:48.519 wealth affecting affecting you know, how you navigate if you're 330 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.200 some if you're someone who pays, who is very very 331 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:55.279 if you're someone who you need to develop some set 332 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:58.039 kind of tough skin, you know towards some of this thing, 333 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:00.640 because if you don't, it has a wealth affecting your 334 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:02.720 psyche and how you you know, how you see things, 335 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:05.599 you know going forward. So I just believe that, yeah, 336 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:07.880 those things are always they always there. They're always there 337 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.319 if you if you the same, it's Doublestand that the 338 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:15.480 same way you would treat a typical white, you know, student, 339 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.000 it's different from the same way you would treat Even 340 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.839 though they try to make it like, oh, it's all diversity, 341 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:23.400 we're all the same. You know, we treat everybody eat pollipod. 342 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:26.200 We still know because we see some of these things 343 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:29.880 that oh, when it's like this, this person gets the treatment. 344 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:32.319 But when it's like this, this person gets treatment. So 345 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:34.640 it's always there. We say these things all the time. 346 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:41.200 And I want to support what doctor Chris said because 347 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:45.440 I've been the vice dean of diversity Echo with the 348 00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:51.079 inclusion and uh several medical schools, and he's all right, 349 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:56.160 there's a different here where you're talking about the way 350 00:20:56.279 --> 00:21:00.480 students are treated em medical school. And one of the 351 00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:05.680 things that really impact you know, African American students is 352 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:09.880 the fact that it's this sense that they're there because 353 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:13.359 of them being you know, because of their scared color, 354 00:21:13.480 --> 00:21:16.640 which is not true. They really have to go through 355 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:19.960 a lot to get into medical schools. They had to, 356 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.759 they went through a lot of adversity, especially black males. 357 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:27.400 They've they've done all the necessary work in order to 358 00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:29.920 be in medical school. And this is this sense that 359 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:34.079 they they were there because of a quota or affirmative action, 360 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:38.400 the diversity equity inclusion, and we all know that. You know, 361 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:41.039 if you look at the numbers the people who benefited 362 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:45.400 benefited from diversity equity inclusion, the last is not black males. 363 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:50.440 Black males are the least the population who did not 364 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:53.359 benefit from niversity equity clus It's actually white women. 365 00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:56.359 So that's white women. 366 00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.960 So so when you look at medical education, you look 367 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:07.640 who now are medical education now, it's fifty fifty women, 368 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:10.279 and majority of those are going to be white women. 369 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:15.079 So when you're talking about, you know, this atmosphere that 370 00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.200 black males are being, you know, I'm sure that in 371 00:22:18.519 --> 00:22:21.920 medical education is really a hostile environment. 372 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:27.799 It's an environment that really say that they want to. 373 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:32.480 Support, you know, everything, everybody's equal. But once once you 374 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:35.279 get onto that campus and you see the truth, it 375 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.200 really impacts you in a negative way. I mean, before 376 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:40.640 you can even start to study, you have to impact 377 00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:43.279 all the microaggressions and all the you. 378 00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:45.039 Know, avert. 379 00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:50.160 Biases that you're you're dealing with, and then you know, 380 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.799 by the time it's seven or eight, you have to 381 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.720 then start shift and pivot and study. 382 00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:59.640 So this is it's a hostile and it's a very 383 00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:02.680 hostile environment that you walking it too. 384 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:08.000 And just because you see another black professor or you 385 00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:12.599 see another like a physician within those walmths, don't necessary 386 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:14.440 means that they're not gate keepers too. 387 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:19.920 I would question how often do you see that? 388 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:23.240 Because everybody that I've met, or even my wife now 389 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:26.599 who's going to PA program, I haven't heard any of 390 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:27.599 them speak of having a. 391 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:31.119 Black lecturer, professor or anything of that story. 392 00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:34.240 Like, it's very uncommon for what I you know, the 393 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.880 few I've ran into, which it sucks because outside of 394 00:23:37.960 --> 00:23:43.000 just representation, is just to have that that at least 395 00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:45.079 some sense of comfort be like, Okay, well I'm not 396 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:47.559 the only one here outside of other class students. 397 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:49.759 If you get another student, I'm gonna give. 398 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:54.680 You, I'm gonna give you a story, who's an African 399 00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:58.839 American physician, high breaking in the school I once worked 400 00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:04.200 in too cidents. He we had a conversation one we 401 00:24:04.319 --> 00:24:06.519