Speaker 1: Are our non reverend saints. We must focus, our brothers,
Speaker 1: We must focus. So thank you, ladies, gentlemen, for coming
Speaker 1: to the official episode of Everyday black Mail Podcast, a
Speaker 1: podcast authentic black mail thoughts.
Speaker 2: You have your boy Wriker here, you got Reed Sham
Speaker 2: white House, you stylish the writer.
Speaker 3: The only person we.
Speaker 2: Don't have to fear is Armstead and black Linterian, but
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure one of the two will join us
Speaker 2: midway through the episode. But most importantly, we have a
Speaker 2: bunch of guests, and I mean a bunch of guests.
Speaker 2: We have our.
Speaker 4: Second time on the podcast as a guest, doctor Gucci,
Speaker 4: and we also have coming today for a special guest spot.
Speaker 4: We have doctor Donovan and he's gonna tell us a
Speaker 4: little bit more about a documentary that he's working on,
Speaker 4: and then we were going to ask some questions, but
Speaker 4: doctor Donovan, we're going to clear the floor for you.
Speaker 2: Of course, you also grow out to the Patreon, but
Speaker 2: tell us tell us a little bit more about what
Speaker 2: made you decide.
Speaker 1: To get into making a documentary and also tell the
Speaker 1: folks a little bit more about what it's about.
Speaker 5: I want to thank you for inviting me to this podcast.
Speaker 5: To speak of the doctor vinry that I've been working on.
Speaker 5: It's called breaking Barriers Black Males into Medicine. So the
Speaker 5: reason why I made this documentary because I've been in
Speaker 5: medical education for over forty years. I worked at various
Speaker 5: medical schools across the country, and around twenty fifteen, the WMC,
Speaker 5: which is the U brother the Association of American Medical Colleges,
Speaker 5: I came out with this this report talking about that
Speaker 5: black males since nineteen seventy eight, the numbers have been
Speaker 5: decreasing representation in medicine, and for black women the numbers
Speaker 5: have been have been increasing since nineteen eighty six. So
Speaker 5: as I was getting my dissertation, I wanted to really
Speaker 5: look at this problem from a not from what's going on,
Speaker 5: but by deaths about the meaning what are the things
Speaker 5: that you know black males don't have and what are
Speaker 5: some of the things that are impacting them. I really
Speaker 5: wanted to find solutions to the problem. So this was
Speaker 5: part of my dissertation and I decided to turn it
Speaker 5: into a documentary because I think there's not been many
Speaker 5: conversations around this this epidemic and the numbers really with
Speaker 5: a double ABC since in nineteen seventy eight is really false.
Speaker 6: It's actually since nineteen forty.
Speaker 5: The numbers have in nineteen the percentage of black males
Speaker 5: in nineteen forty that we're in medical school were two
Speaker 5: point seven. Am hearing today the number six state hadn't
Speaker 5: gone up, but they kind of dipped a little bit
Speaker 5: at two point six. So this is a problem that
Speaker 5: really impacts the overall health. Health is wealth, and one
Speaker 5: of this documentary is based out of the city of Detroit.
Speaker 5: Detroit is one that is due I think mythis has
Speaker 5: to pass it as the predominantly black city, but this
Speaker 5: is if the impact of black males really cause a
Speaker 5: lot of health disparities. And the reason why we see
Speaker 5: why it's so important to know is because we had
Speaker 5: off the off the conversation we're having about the Super Bowl.
Speaker 5: You see predominantly black males and athletics. And one of
Speaker 5: the reason why you see predominantly black males in medicine,
Speaker 5: I mean and afflex is because of because it's money
Speaker 5: in it. Okay, it's money in having black mails and
Speaker 5: you can control their bodies. There's not any money, ah, No,
Speaker 5: not any money when it comes to black males as
Speaker 5: physicians because the money is keeping a black community six
Speaker 5: due to pharmaceuticals, right I. Diabetes is one of the things, hypertension,
Speaker 5: you know, all these different you know, uh, preventative medicine,
Speaker 5: Preventative diseases can be preventative and all the with all
Speaker 5: the researcher says, black men are the most likely to
Speaker 5: practice in their community, to practice in the underserved community.
Speaker 6: So the lack of black males in medicine, it's.
Speaker 5: Impacted overall health of the Black community and communities that
Speaker 5: have lack of access to health. So this is why
Speaker 5: it's so critical that we really uh look at the
Speaker 5: This is why this documentary is so important that to
Speaker 5: bring this probable to the masses. Because of medical school,
Speaker 5: they've known this. This is nothing new in the medical field.
Speaker 5: Everyone does. This is something that they talk about all
Speaker 5: the time. But the money is not in the solution.
Speaker 5: The money is in the problem. So this is why
Speaker 5: I made this documentary. This is the second documentary that
Speaker 5: was one made by like Me and the White Coats.
Speaker 5: This is another documentary to really you know, talk about this,
Speaker 5: to create a forum to talk about this problem.
Speaker 3: Well, excellent and thank you for kind of diving into it.
Speaker 6: I know that question.
Speaker 7: Go ahead, Red, all right, Hey, so the one thing
Speaker 7: that I've noticed about doctors. Let's go so doctors begin doctors?
Speaker 7: Me like, so, uh, second generation doctors, third generation doctors.
Speaker 7: Do you think that's part of the problem. And just
Speaker 7: throw a little thing on this. I know a lot
Speaker 7: of black people who are becoming doctors, but they aren't
Speaker 7: Black Americans. They are like immigrants or immigrants children, which
Speaker 7: are Black Americans. But I'm saying there's a difference without
Speaker 7: the distinction there. But what do you think that's the
Speaker 7: case too? As well as you know you hit, you
Speaker 7: hit the doll over the head, brother, that is cover.
Speaker 7: That's that's a very controversial topic in medicine. One of
Speaker 7: my good one of my mentors uh doctor doctor times uh,
Speaker 7: he's come up with this. Who really is a position?
Speaker 5: He's out in uh ran rapids, you know, he's out
Speaker 5: in in Harvard, Michigan, and he really always talks about
Speaker 5: like called dosa. Uh it's called the descendants enslave people.
Speaker 5: Oh that's just nothing, love that nature. And he really
Speaker 5: talks about when we look at African American males, you
Speaker 5: look at the ones who come from you know, the
Speaker 5: historical slave trade numbers are even worse, like the numbers
Speaker 5: are private, like point two point two point five, So
Speaker 5: you're right, you know, yeah. But also what's very interesting
Speaker 5: is if you look at those those uh, those ones
Speaker 5: who come from Africa, the Caribbee, just the second generation,
Speaker 5: those ones who are coming into you know, medisine now
Speaker 5: are practice of medicine. I guarantee their first generation because
Speaker 5: when the second generation experiences are just like African Americans, right,
Speaker 5: because they have been indoctrinated into the into the into
Speaker 5: America's uh, euro centric education system, which I don't.
Speaker 7: Think they would give They wouldn't give that dedication to
Speaker 7: the black community. They would give to their own distinct communities.
Speaker 7: And that would be different versus Black community, wouldn't it
Speaker 7: be that like uh, well, like doctor would probably being
Speaker 7: a Nigerian neighborhood. Not necessarily they're probably following money.
Speaker 6: They're like, I got a question about that. Read what
Speaker 6: you're saying.
Speaker 8: I was thinking about.
Speaker 9: It's not a I don't think it's always like as
Speaker 9: black and white.
Speaker 10: Do you like when those first generation and second generation
Speaker 10: Africans come here, there's not a what's the word a
Speaker 10: hindrance and confidence and capability because I look at I
Speaker 10: look at I'll say, my family. We get two black
Speaker 10: doctors in the family, and my mother automatically assumes the
Speaker 10: woman is a nurse all the time, and like we're
Speaker 10: looking at her like we got to like yo, children,
Speaker 10: because not disrespectful, because the nurses a respectable position. But
Speaker 10: I think it's like a degradation of confidence within like
Speaker 10: the community where how many black families coming up from
Speaker 10: poverty like encourage their kids to be doctors versus like
Speaker 10: you said, Uh, it's a family that I has one,
Speaker 10: and you know there's a.
Speaker 7: Second when your parents can pay for you to be
Speaker 7: a doctor.
Speaker 10: That's what I was saying, Like, well, I mean it's
Speaker 10: not even just the case though my cousin, Uh, he
Speaker 10: didn't come from the same background I did with the
Speaker 10: Harvard and all that. You know, it's just also knowing
Speaker 10: that rule. Well, no, I'm not talking about the exception
Speaker 10: the fact that he knew how to navigate certain navigues
Speaker 10: when it came to fundy. It wasn't like nobody told
Speaker 10: him to be a doctor.
Speaker 9: We heard that. We were like, oh, ship, like you know,
Speaker 9: but yeah, exactly.
Speaker 7: Positions I know they get into like sports medicine, and
Speaker 7: I'm like, it's not there.
Speaker 11: Yeah, So I think again what the doctor was saying
Speaker 11: is that, you know, there's many motivations for people getting
Speaker 11: into medicine.
Speaker 12: Well, actually his documentary, if you watch the color, it
Speaker 12: does say that.
Speaker 11: Yeah, And I'm also an inspiring physician and working on
Speaker 11: navigating this very very treacherous water.
Speaker 12: It isn't easy. Financing is only one problem.
Speaker 11: And even if you're a generation physician, right, like let's
Speaker 11: say your parents are physicians or your family had physicians
Speaker 11: and then they they helped you get along the bandwagon, right,
Speaker 11: there's also many challenges within becoming a doctor. And then
Speaker 11: when you are a doctor, there is a lot of
Speaker 11: challenges within there. And you know that that navigating that
Speaker 11: field it can be very arguous when you don't have
Speaker 11: guidance in the field. So that's also a major difference.
Speaker 11: And actually, when you're going back to like why you
Speaker 11: know black physicians are on decline, you know, there's many factors.
Speaker 11: In history plays a huge part of it, whereas in
Speaker 11: education when it comes to black men, very huge part.
Speaker 11: Also when it comes to the black culture in America
Speaker 11: being how do you say, de educated, demonetized, they were attacked.
Speaker 12: So when they had an upcome coming just after was
Speaker 12: it the Civil War?
Speaker 11: The Yeah, after the Civil War where you had black
Speaker 11: trying to get get ahead and they were starting to
Speaker 11: get ahead, and then you have the this establishment actually
Speaker 11: attacked them to break them down.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 12: That also had an effect on.
Speaker 7: Educational standards and things. That's what they do.
Speaker 9: That's when the price of education.
Speaker 12: But there was also a bounce back when it came.
Speaker 11: To actually, you know HBCUs HBCU saw this and saying,
Speaker 11: you know what, we need to go ahead and attack
Speaker 11: this issue. So we're going to create our own schools
Speaker 11: so that they could actually you know, challenge the status quote,
Speaker 11: which they've done.
Speaker 12: But it still is a very arguous path to navigate.
Speaker 11: And I think that one that's inspiring to be a physicians.
Speaker 6: You guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what I was gonna say is, I mean, let's
Speaker 2: hear about it from the other side, doctor Gucci. What
Speaker 2: was it like navigating the waters in another country versus
Speaker 2: navigating the waters here?
Speaker 13: Yeah? Good after everyone just to be here. Yeah, medicine
Speaker 13: in in Nigeria of his meeting in America are quite
Speaker 13: very different entities, although it's the same storyline. Metine. But
Speaker 13: the practice is you know, much more different, because first
Speaker 13: of all, you see very different kinds of diseases. Most
Speaker 13: of the diseases come on here are not very very
Speaker 13: common over there, you know. You know, in Nigeria, I
Speaker 13: was still think we're still talking about things like polio,
Speaker 13: were still talking about things like malaria. You know, these
Speaker 13: are things that have been eradicated. You know in the
Speaker 13: developed countries. You know, there are set in diseases we saw,
Speaker 13: you know, we just told oh, if you happen to
Speaker 13: travel abroad, you see this. But you know, trust me,
Speaker 13: I haven't been in I haven't navigated med school here
Speaker 13: in the you know, in the in the US or
Speaker 13: in the Caribbean US community. I know for a fact
Speaker 13: that I've seen and have you know, been able to
Speaker 13: witness some of these conditions. Even also, the medical curriculum
Speaker 13: is also streamlined in a way that you have a
Speaker 13: straight seven year metic cause in Nigeria and Visavis. Yeah,
Speaker 13: you go to the sciences first, you know, graduate from
Speaker 13: the sciences and then you know, you go straight into
Speaker 13: metine for another four years. So the curriculums are quite different.
Speaker 13: But at the end of the day, it's the same alcohol,
Speaker 13: which is meting. But again the pattern of diseases you see,
Speaker 13: you know, like in in Nigeria, I talk about malaria.
Speaker 13: In America, you talk about that asius is. You know,
Speaker 13: most of those cancers you know we see and read
Speaker 13: on reading books are just are things that we you know,
Speaker 13: we're reading passing. But here you begin to see that
Speaker 13: you get to see a different pattern of you know,
Speaker 13: diseases that you see, but which is good because you
Speaker 13: have a perfect blend of what is obtainable in Africa
Speaker 13: and what is obtainable back in the years. Talking about
Speaker 13: the topic for today, which is about you know, black
Speaker 13: men in medicine, I feel that, yeah, I heard when
Speaker 13: the doctor said that the numbers have been very constant.
Speaker 13: It's been very very constant since the forties, and you know,
Speaker 13: at two point six, two point seven, it's still not
Speaker 13: enough because we need we definitely, we definitely need more
Speaker 13: black people in metine. To be honest, We're definitely more
Speaker 13: black people and more black men in meeting because this
Speaker 13: will Having more black people in meeting helps with you know,
Speaker 13: the health disparities. You know, it helps to cush on
Speaker 13: the head disparity that you have and helps us to
Speaker 13: build trust you know, within the community, within within the
Speaker 13: population here. I also believe that, you know, having more
Speaker 13: black people in medicine will help with you know, increasing
Speaker 13: and you know, increasing access to healthcare. And I think
Speaker 13: the bottom line is that trust. So if you if
Speaker 13: you trust the system, you would you want to you know,
Speaker 13: commit further, you want to commit more to the to
Speaker 13: the process. So, yeah, we really do need more black
Speaker 13: people in medicine.
Speaker 3: Thank you, doctor. Uh sorry, do you have something doctor, Yeah.
Speaker 13: Yeah, okay, So I was talking about I was trying to,
Speaker 13: you know, make some adducement for some of the reasons
Speaker 13: why we have some of these you know, dis reductions
Speaker 13: in black males in medicine. I think from statistics, you
Speaker 13: find out that you know, two tots of the population
Speaker 13: of doctors are white. That's a huge chunk, about sixty
Speaker 13: five point six percent, you know, you know quite you
Speaker 13: know further, eighteen percent are Asians and eight point nine
Speaker 13: percent that Hispanics or Latinos. I have just five percents
Speaker 13: for you know, for black doctors. And of that two
Speaker 13: point eight you know identify as black women and you know,
Speaker 13: to six for the men.
Speaker 3: So that's two.
Speaker 13: Point six is really really small. I also believe that
Speaker 13: what the reasons for that, you know, some of the
Speaker 13: reasons why that number it's very very low, you know,
Speaker 13: has to do with discrimination, you know, racial and financial disparities.
Speaker 13: You know, when you compare you know, the white vis
Speaker 13: against the blacks for the most part. And you know
Speaker 13: the fact that you know, if you have less people,
Speaker 13: less black males in medicine, you know, you have less mentorship,
Speaker 13: you know, and that will also effect you know, mentorship
Speaker 13: and you know, networking. So if you have more people
Speaker 13: in metine, you have more mentorship and you have more networking,
Speaker 13: you know, these avis. And then there's already this you know,
Speaker 13: the media has been patent in such a way that
Speaker 13: you know, they give a kind of negative disposition towards minorities,
Speaker 13: and this creates a kind of i would say, maybe
Speaker 13: internalized ptereotypes. You know, so that also has a wealth
Speaker 13: affecting the psyche of you know, an average person who's
Speaker 13: trying to you know, get into medicine and all that. So, yeah,
Speaker 13: go ahead, No, I was going to.
Speaker 8: Ask a question, sorry to interrupted, uh, with your experience
Speaker 8: overseas out of the country versus here, have you ran
Speaker 8: into the disparity and just classes or you know.
Speaker 9: Some the nepotism of students in MAD school that.
Speaker 10: Come from you know, second third generation of I'm specifically
Speaker 10: target the white white uh MAD students and doctors too,
Speaker 10: you know, the intimidation tactics or judgmental uh you know active,
Speaker 10: what's the judgmental uh practices towards you know, the black
Speaker 10: or brown skinned you know, students and whatnot.
Speaker 9: Like that's a is it?
Speaker 10: Is it anything like that going on over there versus
Speaker 10: you know here, like you spoke of the discriminations and separation.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so.
Speaker 13: I trained, I trained back in Anigeria and I also
Speaker 13: elected to retrain back here in the in the US.
Speaker 9: So I attended.
Speaker 13: You know, I'll use my I use myself as an example.
Speaker 13: I went back to a Caribbean med school here. And
Speaker 13: you know, even in the med school, the way you
Speaker 13: could see you could see those stereotypes, you could see
Speaker 13: those you could see that disparity as well. You know,
Speaker 13: the school I went to is largely populated by you know,
Speaker 13: the whites from you know, like American whites, you know
Speaker 13: vis a vis you know, you still have some blacks too,
Speaker 13: But you could also see how you know, even in
Speaker 13: class and how you know, when we have setting programs together,
Speaker 13: how setting set of people, even though they don't try to.
Speaker 9: Make it very very.
Speaker 13: Obvious, but you can also see that some setting set
Speaker 13: of people are favored, you know, more than the other
Speaker 13: set of people. We see these things, but we just
Speaker 13: act like you know, it's you know, the way the
Speaker 13: way sometimes some of these you know, collect teachers or
Speaker 13: professors will treat the same kind of students, it's not
Speaker 13: the same way they will treat you know, an immigrant
Speaker 13: or you know, like somebody coming a black person or
Speaker 13: somebody coming from India or you know, so it's also
Speaker 13: also different. And if you have an Indian professor, the
Speaker 13: way he's going to treat Indians, it's not the same
Speaker 13: way he's going to treat you know, an average black
Speaker 13: person like me coming from Nigeria in the US going
Speaker 13: to a Carribean med school. So it's those things are
Speaker 13: always there, and so to some extent, collectively has a
Speaker 13: wealth affecting affecting you know, how you navigate if you're
Speaker 13: some if you're someone who pays, who is very very
Speaker 13: if you're someone who you need to develop some set
Speaker 13: kind of tough skin, you know towards some of this thing,
Speaker 13: because if you don't, it has a wealth affecting your
Speaker 13: psyche and how you you know, how you see things,
Speaker 13: you know going forward. So I just believe that, yeah,
Speaker 13: those things are always they always there. They're always there
Speaker 13: if you if you the same, it's Doublestand that the
Speaker 13: same way you would treat a typical white, you know, student,
Speaker 13: it's different from the same way you would treat Even
Speaker 13: though they try to make it like, oh, it's all diversity,
Speaker 13: we're all the same. You know, we treat everybody eat pollipod.
Speaker 13: We still know because we see some of these things
Speaker 13: that oh, when it's like this, this person gets the treatment.
Speaker 13: But when it's like this, this person gets treatment. So
Speaker 13: it's always there. We say these things all the time.
Speaker 5: And I want to support what doctor Chris said because
Speaker 5: I've been the vice dean of diversity Echo with the
Speaker 5: inclusion and uh several medical schools, and he's all right,
Speaker 5: there's a different here where you're talking about the way
Speaker 5: students are treated em medical school. And one of the
Speaker 5: things that really impact you know, African American students is
Speaker 5: the fact that it's this sense that they're there because
Speaker 5: of them being you know, because of their scared color,
Speaker 5: which is not true. They really have to go through
Speaker 5: a lot to get into medical schools. They had to,
Speaker 5: they went through a lot of adversity, especially black males.
Speaker 5: They've they've done all the necessary work in order to
Speaker 5: be in medical school. And this is this sense that
Speaker 5: they they were there because of a quota or affirmative action,
Speaker 5: the diversity equity inclusion, and we all know that. You know,
Speaker 5: if you look at the numbers the people who benefited
Speaker 5: benefited from diversity equity inclusion, the last is not black males.
Speaker 5: Black males are the least the population who did not
Speaker 5: benefit from niversity equity clus It's actually white women.
Speaker 6: So that's white women.
Speaker 5: So so when you look at medical education, you look
Speaker 5: who now are medical education now, it's fifty fifty women,
Speaker 5: and majority of those are going to be white women.
Speaker 5: So when you're talking about, you know, this atmosphere that
Speaker 5: black males are being, you know, I'm sure that in
Speaker 5: medical education is really a hostile environment.
Speaker 6: It's an environment that really say that they want to.
Speaker 5: Support, you know, everything, everybody's equal. But once once you
Speaker 5: get onto that campus and you see the truth, it
Speaker 5: really impacts you in a negative way. I mean, before
Speaker 5: you can even start to study, you have to impact
Speaker 5: all the microaggressions and all the you.
Speaker 6: Know, avert.
Speaker 5: Biases that you're you're dealing with, and then you know,
Speaker 5: by the time it's seven or eight, you have to
Speaker 5: then start shift and pivot and study.
Speaker 6: So this is it's a hostile and it's a very
Speaker 6: hostile environment that you walking it too.
Speaker 5: And just because you see another black professor or you
Speaker 5: see another like a physician within those walmths, don't necessary
Speaker 5: means that they're not gate keepers too.
Speaker 9: I would question how often do you see that?
Speaker 10: Because everybody that I've met, or even my wife now
Speaker 10: who's going to PA program, I haven't heard any of
Speaker 10: them speak of having a.
Speaker 9: Black lecturer, professor or anything of that story.
Speaker 10: Like, it's very uncommon for what I you know, the
Speaker 10: few I've ran into, which it sucks because outside of
Speaker 10: just representation, is just to have that that at least
Speaker 10: some sense of comfort be like, Okay, well I'm not
Speaker 10: the only one here outside of other class students.
Speaker 9: If you get another student, I'm gonna give.
Speaker 5: You, I'm gonna give you a story, who's an African
Speaker 5: American physician, high breaking in the school I once worked
Speaker 5: in too cidents. He we had a conversation one we
Speaker 5: have these like they have these they try to get
Speaker 5: they try to build some solidary amongst the students. So
Speaker 5: it was just you know event for all all African Americans,
Speaker 5: you know, students. He stood up and told the African
Speaker 5: American students that in this setting he will support them,
Speaker 5: but on that campus he will not because it was
Speaker 5: it would it would in the sense that he's only
Speaker 5: for African American students or you see, but nobody questions,
Speaker 5: you know, when the white professors give the white students,
Speaker 5: or the Indians give the Indian students, or you know,
Speaker 5: no more are the Asian physicians gives the Asian students
Speaker 5: proof you know, support them.
Speaker 6: It's only when it comes to us. Here's a second.
Speaker 5: This gentleman has been at the school for about ten
Speaker 5: years and we had, you know, our graduation and he
Speaker 5: told me that he didn't know any of the graduating
Speaker 5: students walked across the stage. That's concerning. This guy was
Speaker 5: like secondary charge at the medical school. And he gave
Speaker 5: me this other this last example, I want to get
Speaker 5: how skinned folks and kid folks. He told me that
Speaker 5: a gentleman told him, if he sees more than two
Speaker 5: black people in the room, he knows he's gonna get poorer.
Speaker 5: And that's cooled himself. So it's this elite. It's a
Speaker 5: elitist when it comes to black physicians. And I'm not
Speaker 5: a physician. I've just been in the field for twenty years.
Speaker 5: It's an elite. It's an elitist, you know club and unfortunately,
Speaker 5: a you know, pick and choose who they feel is
Speaker 5: worthy of being in that club. And sometimes it's based
Speaker 5: off of colorism. We still know that in our community.
Speaker 5: Colorism is real, especially after American community. So well, the
Speaker 5: darker you are, from my perspective, less likely you know,
Speaker 5: you'll be part of the club. And those are some
Speaker 5: of the things that I for me being in the
Speaker 5: field for twenty years, you know, being a vice day,
Speaker 5: which is you know, hit the silly for not being
Speaker 5: a physician, but he had to become a vice deam.
Speaker 5: And that's one of the things that really impacted me
Speaker 5: in order to write and I'm writing, I'm writing three
Speaker 5: books at the same time about how we can increase
Speaker 5: black belt representation and how do we re imagine diversity, equity,
Speaker 5: inclusion within medical school and also to the therd ones.
Speaker 5: I'm a lovely specialist. I think one of the things
Speaker 5: that impact a lot of the students for not being
Speaker 5: successful is that a lot of students do not know
Speaker 5: how to stay study independently. You learned twenty percent of
Speaker 5: content within the classroom. Eighty percent of what you're gonna
Speaker 5: learn is in your class is outside the classroom. So
Speaker 5: out of preview, out of you know, write notes all
Speaker 5: these things. You think that a lot of physician students
Speaker 5: were coming. And it's not just African American, it's all students.
Speaker 5: A lot of students do not know how to study independently,
Speaker 5: and that is the biggest barrier. It's not the fact
Speaker 5: that if your Americans don't have how the intellectual capacity
Speaker 5: goes back to what one of gentlemer says, it's the
Speaker 5: social capital. Like they don't have the mentorship, social capital,
Speaker 5: they don't have the necessary tools to succee.
Speaker 6: So what they do is they brually go through it
Speaker 6: by just grinding, grinding, grinting because they used to face
Speaker 6: the adversity which led them to be successful.
Speaker 5: So this is what one of the things that are
Speaker 5: really trying to you're probably probably part of the solution,
Speaker 5: the start of the problem, the problem they're talking about this,
Speaker 5: but I think this is why it's so important that
Speaker 5: we are the solutions and not talking about the deficit,
Speaker 5: but talk about how can we increase And I really
Speaker 5: feel that medical schools really have the power to do something,
Speaker 5: but few of the one hundred and fifty schools really
Speaker 5: really put anybody or put any muscle behind, you know,
Speaker 5: solve this problems where they know what the outcomes and
Speaker 5: how beneficial it is to the Africabank community to have
Speaker 5: more Black belts as physicians.
Speaker 11: I have to also add onto that because what I've
Speaker 11: also noticed in the community is the socioeconomical status plays
Speaker 11: a huge role. And it's basically picking off of what
Speaker 11: you said, doctor Roy, where you know, students don't know
Speaker 11: how to study. And then there's another thing also in
Speaker 11: medical school that most people don't know, and it's adaptability,
Speaker 11: not just knowing how to stay, but to change your
Speaker 11: study method or just change your approach on tackling a
Speaker 11: problem when you see a problem arising, adjusting quickly. And
Speaker 11: I noticed because I actually have a doctor that I
Speaker 11: talked to that's married to my mother and like I
Speaker 11: talked to him about how he went through med school,
Speaker 11: and he act like it was nothing because his primary
Speaker 11: schooling they taught him all the skills that he needed
Speaker 11: that he can use to flourish in medical school.
Speaker 12: Like he didn't even really bad an eye.
Speaker 11: But like when I look at it, I was like,
Speaker 11: none of my schools taught me these these tools to
Speaker 11: study and to learn. I had to learn these tools
Speaker 11: and learn how to apply them in this medical setting.
Speaker 11: And I actually noticed too, like talking to other young
Speaker 11: black individuals going.
Speaker 6: Through their.
Speaker 11: Their schools, their schools aren't necessarily teaching them. Hey, look,
Speaker 11: this is how you study, this is how you be proficient,
Speaker 11: this is how you do things. In order for the
Speaker 11: black community to get around that seeing this with my
Speaker 11: family is that they actually send their children to these
Speaker 11: white schools or to these Ivy League schools, and then
Speaker 11: they actually end up teaching them skills so that when
Speaker 11: they go into college they can flourish because they've learned
Speaker 11: those skills that the whites use. So and again, as
Speaker 11: you said, doctor Roy, like blacks don't necessarily black the
Speaker 11: commitment or the mental cognitive ability.
Speaker 12: It's just that they don't.
Speaker 11: They lack the tools because they're not in the environments
Speaker 11: that which they are taught so that they can thrive.
Speaker 6: I totally agree with that that is so important. It
Speaker 6: also goes back to what you just said. They also
Speaker 6: see when you send your.
Speaker 5: Child to one of those, you know, private schools that
Speaker 5: really have a strove science component, a lot of that
Speaker 5: stuff that you're seeing in high.
Speaker 6: School is going to be repeated in college. So a
Speaker 6: lot of times if you go to a low resource school.
Speaker 5: As an African American, mail of the people who are
Speaker 5: teaching the sciences, they're not graduating with a science background.
Speaker 6: That's something else that we need to discuss. Or your
Speaker 6: school don't have you.
Speaker 5: Know, chemistry and biology, you have Earth science, life science,
Speaker 5: you don't have the you know, the you know, the
Speaker 5: the the experience of going through these science courses and
Speaker 5: the first time that you ever see those courses as
Speaker 5: a freshman, where you're when your colleagues are seeing this
Speaker 5: for the second time, when you know, the more you
Speaker 5: see something, the more you learn it. And once you
Speaker 5: so when you get into your sophomore year of college,
Speaker 5: that's where you see a huge fall off of African
Speaker 5: American band going into UH into premads, they end up
Speaker 5: dropping out because they as they go further in the
Speaker 5: advanced science. Again the disease again to the it's not
Speaker 5: the fact that like it. Once again, it's not the
Speaker 5: fact they don't have the intellectual capacity to be successful.
Speaker 5: It's the lack of opportunity, then the lack of social
Speaker 5: capital it are to be successful. So research says that
Speaker 5: entering that entering undergraduate schools, around forty two percent of
Speaker 5: after Americans want to go into be pre bad or
Speaker 5: still feel same as white males forty five when the
Speaker 5: numbers at the end of we at the end, you
Speaker 5: got a forty percent of the Occasian males that graduated.
Speaker 6: When you look at the black mails, you see five percent.
Speaker 6: So we see.
Speaker 9: From the inside out, is there also some.
Speaker 10: Some form of favoritism when there's Caucasian or like you said,
Speaker 10: Indian Asian that there is a struggle and they allow
Speaker 10: some like venda rules or curved because I've heard of
Speaker 10: this is where some students didn't necessarily pass whatever exam
Speaker 10: or I forget the different terminology of what they have
Speaker 10: or end of course or whatever, but they are.
Speaker 9: Giving a second chance to either retake or you know
Speaker 9: that there's a review of what the results are and
Speaker 9: to get them right over the.
Speaker 6: That's a good question. So what we see is.
Speaker 5: Sciences is a doggy dog world. Everybody eats their own.
Speaker 5: That's one thing. Okay, so everybody eats their own. But
Speaker 5: when you're talking about people going to their own silos,
Speaker 5: so you'll see you know, the Asian kids study only
Speaker 5: with the educ Asian kids. You see the the African
Speaker 5: Americans students, No far, it's only a couple study with
Speaker 5: each other. So that's another for number. But also too fraternities.
Speaker 5: What I've heard this, this is not just what students.
Speaker 5: I heard this all the time. The fraternities, the white
Speaker 5: fraternities have the exams. If you have a profession that
Speaker 5: I've been teaching there for fifty to twenty years, he's
Speaker 5: not gonna change up there. He's not gonna change up
Speaker 5: the exam. So you have these fraternity guys who actually
Speaker 5: remember the questions and the answers, and they have a
Speaker 5: like a they have a like a database or a
Speaker 5: filar system where they say, oh, if you're taking this class,
Speaker 5: here's the exam. Because one of my students was like,
Speaker 5: she was struggling and she knowed this white guy who
Speaker 5: never came to class, but he always got a's and
Speaker 5: he will he took pity on her because she was
Speaker 5: stressing out.
Speaker 6: He was like, he's like, you.
Speaker 5: Don't have the questions the answer to the exam. It's like,
Speaker 5: she's like, what it's like here, here's the answer to
Speaker 5: the exam. Everybody has these accept you, this is why
Speaker 5: you struggling. He ended up getting the A. And of
Speaker 5: course because this one white guy took pitiot on her.
Speaker 5: So to answer your question, it's not it goes back
Speaker 5: to that social network. It goes back to social network.
Speaker 5: Is that when we get into the space, we do
Speaker 5: not have the social network in order to level the
Speaker 5: playing field for us. We Actually that's why I say
Speaker 5: when African Americans get into medical school, male or female
Speaker 5: or Latinos, when they get into medical school, they I'll say,
Speaker 5: not all white students have that same privilege, but a
Speaker 5: lot of them, you know, have that. You know a
Speaker 5: lot of them have earned their way in because they
Speaker 5: have to work hard, doubly hard in order to be
Speaker 5: there because of there's lack of social network and social
Speaker 5: capital that other population. And I don't want to diminish
Speaker 5: the hard work, because medical school is no joke. I mean,
Speaker 5: if anybody who play sports or folk especially football, of
Speaker 5: gone through hell week, back to school is like going
Speaker 5: through forty eight months of hell week. It is intense,
Speaker 5: it is crazy. If you don't have the necessary resources
Speaker 5: to be successful in it, if you don't have the
Speaker 5: social network to be successful, it is going to be
Speaker 5: a grinding That's why you see a lot of students
Speaker 5: that in the passes, not because they don't have the
Speaker 5: capacity or the financial support. It's the fact that it
Speaker 5: is a doggie dog world and everybody stay home.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I like to add I can add to that
Speaker 14: real quick, So I agree with what you're saying about
Speaker 14: the doggy dog world. Also in medical school, I think
Speaker 14: one of the biggest things.
Speaker 3: Know.
Speaker 14: The big thing I saw was the Indian communities. They
Speaker 14: look out for each other, but the Blacks do not.
Speaker 14: I remember, like some people would have papers, have ances
Speaker 14: to papers, keeping that for themselves. And also where you
Speaker 14: have a group of people studying together. Sometimes I might
Speaker 14: be wrong, but sometimes the male folks things. They think
Speaker 14: that they are better off or they are better than
Speaker 14: this other person and don't come. That's all about humbling yourself.
Speaker 14: Wanting to understand. I wanted to know what's going on.
Speaker 14: But if you feel like you're better than this person,
Speaker 14: because okay, first of all, I went to some school
Speaker 14: in Mississippi or something like that, you would not be
Speaker 14: able to get other material from people.
Speaker 4: So that's one thing.
Speaker 14: Humility is something I feel like most of us black
Speaker 14: people lack. And then secondly is we're not looking out
Speaker 14: for each other. Those are the two things I think
Speaker 14: we're the biggest things for the Black community.
Speaker 13: In medical school, Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with I
Speaker 13: agree with the last with DJ.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 13: I had a similar experience. And while in the Caribbean,
Speaker 13: there was a time some of our exams were being
Speaker 13: set by one one medical body, and you know, most
Speaker 13: of the time they were repeating questions and some some
Speaker 13: like most of the Indian folks, had answers to those questions,
Speaker 13: and they were doing.
Speaker 6: Very, very very well.
Speaker 13: You see some people that don't come to class, they
Speaker 13: don't do anything, but they just aggregate themselves together during
Speaker 13: the exams. Yeah, close to exam exam time and they
Speaker 13: come out in flying colors, and everybody's like, oh, these
Speaker 13: people are very good. They are so good. I remember
Speaker 13: I had my colleagues and my friends had to sweat
Speaker 13: for every every every every score we got in the exam.
Speaker 13: We had to put in so much work. But people
Speaker 13: there were people who were not doing so much and
Speaker 13: they were just coming out with you know, straight grades
Speaker 13: like that. It was later on when the school NaSTA,
Speaker 13: they said in house questions that we decided that we
Speaker 13: now knew that you know, most of these things were
Speaker 13: because most of the time it was because this is
Speaker 13: already seen the past questions, they revised it over and
Speaker 13: over and over and over and over. So it goes
Speaker 13: back to what DJ said and what uh doctor doctor right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 13: it goes back to what you said that you know,
Speaker 13: sometimes when people are able to just you know, we
Speaker 13: we you know, we don't have that social that social mentorship.
Speaker 13: You know, we don't have that social capacity, you know,
Speaker 13: as a group to be able to help ourselves and
Speaker 13: be able to do things in a way that that
Speaker 13: in a way that benefits us. So yeah, I quite
Speaker 13: agree with you. I agree with totally.
Speaker 6: And also to sometimes we don't want to bit we
Speaker 6: were struggling, you know, we don't go seek help. And
Speaker 6: this is understanding because when you see help, you don't
Speaker 6: get the same help as someone else for African Americans,
Speaker 6: and it's always looking at oh, that's what are you
Speaker 6: doing wrong? What are you're not doing right?
Speaker 5: And it's to say and it could be the fact
Speaker 5: that the instructor lacks the ability to connect the.
Speaker 6: Content to the students.
Speaker 5: I think we put and I always stood up said
Speaker 5: that it's sometimes it's not the students, it's the information
Speaker 5: that's been delivered to the students and how the people
Speaker 5: who are delivered the information are not making those associations.
Speaker 5: So that's another thing that really is an advocate. A
Speaker 5: lot of times when you go to the schools, you
Speaker 5: don't have someone like myself advocating or the students. And
Speaker 5: if you advocate for this for African Americans, you are sean,
Speaker 5: you are isolated, and you have to be very strong.
Speaker 5: Is what the students are growing up. Because I always
Speaker 5: tell the students sparing what you're going through because I'm
Speaker 5: going through the same thing.
Speaker 6: And I'm an adult.
Speaker 5: I'm six six, I'm a former office of Line and
Speaker 5: I play at the University Southern California, So I understand
Speaker 5: about adversity. I'm I'm built for this, but a students
Speaker 5: need someone who's gonna advocate you if you don't have
Speaker 5: no one advocating for you as African because because really
Speaker 5: medicine is anti Black, education is anti Black, and especially
Speaker 5: medicine because you know, a lot of the diseases that.
Speaker 6: Are being taught or not talk from an African American spective,
Speaker 6: relying to skin. We relying to skin.
Speaker 5: A lot of the stuff that they see, they rarely
Speaker 5: see it on the African American patient of the skin,
Speaker 5: of the skin tone. So that's another thing that I
Speaker 5: had that when it come to Madison, you have to
Speaker 5: really eliminate the hitting biases, a lot of human biases.
Speaker 5: When it comes to us, it's all about stereotype. It's
Speaker 5: all about stereotype.
Speaker 10: I find it an interest in everything that y'all hit
Speaker 10: on and even the questions y'all answered for us identify
Speaker 10: possibly the top key points with the Black Americans in
Speaker 10: every field where we don't succeed outside of when they
Speaker 10: want us to succeed in sports and entertainment, but in
Speaker 10: the professional world, in a lower education, higher education, doctors
Speaker 10: like you said, and all these professions, and I you
Speaker 10: know from the book that we speak on all time
Speaker 10: and here outliers to other books that talk on just
Speaker 10: strike within human humans period. We are the only culture
Speaker 10: that are self deprecated. Like we we don't help each other,
Speaker 10: and it's crazy to like, I don't know how many
Speaker 10: times the discussion has to be made on small platforms
Speaker 10: the big platforms, but it's just interesting to hear you
Speaker 10: you guys all from different background, same profession, but that's
Speaker 10: like the common denominator and then you can align it
Speaker 10: with all the other, you know, environments that Black Americans.
Speaker 9: Are in, and it's always other Blacks don't help us.
Speaker 10: We don't have like it's a it's a it's a
Speaker 10: rarity that's crazy for you know, it's not crazy for
Speaker 10: me to hear, but it's just, you know, for lack
Speaker 10: a better.
Speaker 7: Term, he said, they can't help you without suffering a consequence.
Speaker 10: Also in it too, though, that's enlignment because we regardless
Speaker 10: of what environment, it's it's the barriers internally and externally
Speaker 10: that we run into.
Speaker 9: And you know, it's ignored obviously by the other side.
Speaker 10: You know, even when you said the I and I
Speaker 10: was muted, but like I laughed because like it's there
Speaker 10: to do, you know, great things, and yet it's that turning.
Speaker 7: White women.
Speaker 9: And I'm talking about what it was meant for versus
Speaker 9: what it is for.
Speaker 7: No, what it is for, what it's meant to do.
Speaker 7: It did what it was meant to do. It was
Speaker 7: never to help black people like black men exactly. I mean,
Speaker 7: you'll probably get one or two, but compared to the
Speaker 7: number of men that's available to do that, that's not
Speaker 7: really there.
Speaker 6: That's not a delusion.
Speaker 5: I had this conversation with my family members and they're like, oh,
Speaker 5: do you as being you know, eliminated, And I had
Speaker 5: and and I'm like, listen, do I didn't do anything
Speaker 5: for black for black people?
Speaker 6: And they can. They can.
Speaker 7: You'll get a sprinkle of black women. That's about it.
Speaker 10: You will get a mark, You'll get a doctor King
Speaker 10: posted somewhere in the court.
Speaker 5: And the funny thing doctor Martin, when he was alive,
Speaker 5: his approval weight was three percent when he was alive.
Speaker 5: So that's another thing and I and I have to
Speaker 5: tell you about my family is like when Martin Luther Key,
Speaker 5: he said towards the end he questioned if integration was
Speaker 5: was was was possible? Well, if integration was a good thing.
Speaker 5: You say, he's afraid and he's seeing his community into
Speaker 5: a birding building.
Speaker 10: That's a good discussion in recent years where I think
Speaker 10: I think Tim and Mike.
Speaker 9: Even talked about it.
Speaker 10: It's like where black people actually thrive when seguation.
Speaker 7: We did, we did everything, That's why. But that's where
Speaker 7: a circle little brown. Back to what he's saying, Black
Speaker 7: people are going to go into black neighborhoods. But do
Speaker 7: you support your black doctors and you got a black insurance?
Speaker 7: As do you got a black this Black day? Whatever?
Speaker 7: And then keep that cycle going. But the problem is
Speaker 7: the people who experienced a lot of wealth start getting
Speaker 7: other people to do that kind of stuff, like you
Speaker 7: can't find your black accounting like George.
Speaker 10: That's where the disadvantage comes to the social equity, because
Speaker 10: then there's the network. Even when it comes to law,
Speaker 10: those lawyers that are successful usually have a good relationship
Speaker 10: with the judges that they are presented in front of
Speaker 10: that work. It's not necessarily that they're a better lawyer.
Speaker 10: Their relationships are what helps their career thrive, and.
Speaker 9: Usually it is a cultural thing.
Speaker 7: Then you go to the black people they present in
Speaker 7: front of you, the present lives in front of you,
Speaker 7: Like when you when you're presenting somebody like Lebron, James Lebron,
Speaker 7: like Maverick conqueror, is that guy? But I want you
Speaker 7: to be really look at that team. You always see
Speaker 7: this bad white guy. That guy is the guy that
Speaker 7: was Lebron's everything? Is not the guy they are lying
Speaker 7: to you?
Speaker 10: Is that guy? Like something like that. Years ago what
Speaker 10: I thought was interesting, even though it came from him
Speaker 10: where he said master P said something because master P
Speaker 10: wanted to link up women to do something for the community.
Speaker 10: And Kodak went on later and on that same platform, said, Yeah,
Speaker 10: my problem is when I go to these other black folks,
Speaker 10: they want to charge me this and charge me that
Speaker 10: they don't need to offer in a quarter of what
Speaker 10: this white guy over here is offering me. And they're
Speaker 10: not even charging me all the things that they're charged.
Speaker 10: Like that's another thing with the distrust or the opportunistic.
Speaker 7: What I'm saying is the system has done that on purpose,
Speaker 7: Like that's pervasive.
Speaker 2: I think on that part, I think that's the way
Speaker 2: that we have to do is I mean, we could
Speaker 2: talk about the problems all day long.
Speaker 3: There a mountain high, but Yeah. The solution I mean,
Speaker 3: I think is just for us to do more than
Speaker 3: our communities.
Speaker 15: Like I mean, my doctor is black, now he's also Nigeria,
Speaker 15: and he's here.
Speaker 3: To really like change things for his community.
Speaker 16: But even like with doctor Gucci Cris or doctor Ryder
Speaker 16: or doctor d Jay, I've seen y'all interact together with
Speaker 16: these things and kind of building your own networks.
Speaker 2: And I think that's more so the solution for us
Speaker 2: because we have to build those networks. Like we got
Speaker 2: stylist here, he's about to be a black accountant. He's
Speaker 2: going to specialize in one thing and then he'll change
Speaker 2: something else. Not gonna say with specializations, because you know,
Speaker 2: the matrix love to hear that, so they can try
Speaker 2: to throw something in your right.
Speaker 12: But we need to do more to.
Speaker 3: Branch out these relationships.
Speaker 2: So these kind of conversations like having doctor Donovan making
Speaker 2: a documentary, you've got to support him. I mean, we
Speaker 2: we go back to others who are mothers who won't
Speaker 2: let father see their children. Like that guy, he is
Speaker 2: building something to kind of shine a light on a problem,
Speaker 2: and that's really what we need to do more of
Speaker 2: is focusing on that. But you know, I think this
Speaker 2: has been really good, but because I want to be
Speaker 2: you know, cognizantive, like the amount of time that we're
Speaker 2: taking here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if y'all got a few more questions y'all want.
Speaker 2: To ask doctor Donovan, let's go ahead and focus on
Speaker 2: that and then we can go ahead and close out.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 7: I think they have like a Black medical health Care association.
Speaker 7: Like when they have those kind of associations, why don't
Speaker 7: they help or is it like every other black association
Speaker 7: that gets taken over by somebody else.
Speaker 6: Working at that and the internet.
Speaker 5: But I think they're very conscious of the of the problem.
Speaker 5: I think one it goes back to what you said
Speaker 5: previous about Jerry Jones, Jerry Joe the A m A.
Speaker 5: These associations are physicians, so you they only when they
Speaker 5: need people who are experts in these type of fields,
Speaker 5: like someone like myself who's an educational psychologist.
Speaker 6: You know, I was.
Speaker 5: I've been very beneficient with and supporting the institutions that
Speaker 5: I've been because I see it from a different perspective,
Speaker 5: not from the physician perspective.
Speaker 6: You need people who are for a different sector in
Speaker 6: order to fix this problem. I think they're very concerned
Speaker 6: about these problems, but also too, they're going back to
Speaker 6: their they're part of the world, and they're the only
Speaker 6: two or three black physicians there, and they're they balance systems.
Speaker 6: Doctor DJ, doctor Gucci. I forgot that the other physicians
Speaker 6: are here.
Speaker 3: Doctor R.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you guys are baloing a system by yourself, and
Speaker 5: it can weigh down on you. It's like the rest
Speaker 5: of them, and sometimes we do not rely on each other.
Speaker 5: These type of conversations that are being like we're having.
Speaker 5: It needs to be had at the at the at
Speaker 5: the national level, and not just talking about it. Okay,
Speaker 5: we all get excited about it for the week that
Speaker 5: we're there. It might last like two weeks, and then
Speaker 5: we go back to business as usual. Right, it needs
Speaker 5: to be constantly a conversation had, like how do we
Speaker 5: bring other isities in here in order to fix the problem,
Speaker 5: because if we don't, only are we going to be
Speaker 5: still healthy. But you got to remember a report came
Speaker 5: out in twenty and fifty three the black community had
Speaker 5: a deficit, and right now we are treat like what
Speaker 5: ten trillion, a trillion dollars community. We need to and
Speaker 5: the more physicians and the more people we have an engineer.
Speaker 5: The more we have people going in it, the more
Speaker 5: our community is going to get stronger. We do not
Speaker 5: have the we do not have the solidarity that we
Speaker 5: need in ought to be successful. I think it goes
Speaker 5: back to the earlier what you said, the Caribbean, the
Speaker 5: black that asper in America need to come together. That's
Speaker 5: what that's the conversation need to be having. It's not
Speaker 5: the fact that you're catching hell because you're you're from
Speaker 5: your Caribbean? Are you African? Are you from the slave trund?
Speaker 5: You catch your hell because you're black, because America has
Speaker 5: an anti black agenda.
Speaker 10: They rather see us to follow up to follow over
Speaker 10: that question.
Speaker 12: Do you think.
Speaker 10: One of the biggest problems we have is there's a
Speaker 10: content with saying the representation we have to where there's
Speaker 10: no initiative to try to back up and find the
Speaker 10: future replacements for those like black leaders, doctors and all
Speaker 10: of that. Like we there's always a contentpt of we
Speaker 10: already got that. It's like, yeah, but we do.
Speaker 5: They don't want to give up. The old regime does
Speaker 5: not want to give up power. Nobody and listen to
Speaker 5: other people. The only reason why they that people don't
Speaker 5: on them is because the power that they have, that's
Speaker 5: like the just like you know, white supremacy. Nobody wants
Speaker 5: to lose power, you know. And also to the generational
Speaker 5: especially with black men, it's a generational thing, like it's rare.
Speaker 7: I think. The one thing that I've seen when you're
Speaker 7: talking about power is when you when I see a
Speaker 7: lot of older black physicians, they aren't fucking I'm sorry,
Speaker 7: they aren't liberals. That's another thing they not gotta put
Speaker 7: in front of you as a black man. They're not
Speaker 7: gonna put none like you gotta be an old liberal
Speaker 7: Black men men, especially most men, and this is not
Speaker 7: like political to most men. Is they get older, they
Speaker 7: get more conservative. It is what it is. Yeah, So
Speaker 7: when these men get older and the powers that be
Speaker 7: who usually have the power to put these people in
Speaker 7: front of you, they're liberal. They're not gonna put Ben
Speaker 7: Carson in front of you. When we were curds, I
Speaker 7: remember Ben Carson was never talked about in that way.
Speaker 7: But as he got older, they started to realize this man,
Speaker 7: not on democrat, but how big Carson was presented to
Speaker 7: me as a child, and then it was presented to
Speaker 7: me as a dunt that stuff matters. He needs to
Speaker 7: just be presented as a doctor, none of that, Like
Speaker 7: what was the book Gifted Hands or Gifted hands. But
Speaker 7: as I got older, they tried to present him like
Speaker 7: he's some left right wing that case. I'm just like,
Speaker 7: he's still a doctor, a doctor.
Speaker 9: Yeah, they just moved them into.
Speaker 6: We need both. We need both perspective.
Speaker 5: We can't fight about we can't fight amongst each other
Speaker 5: that who's left and who is right?
Speaker 6: You know what I mean?
Speaker 7: If you have no they're only gonna put right and
Speaker 7: left and fron left in front of you because they
Speaker 7: don't put right wing people in front of It's just
Speaker 7: how the media is. Like left wing.
Speaker 6: It is what it is.
Speaker 7: But like the not gonna put that guy in front
Speaker 7: of you because they think it'll, you know whatever, it
Speaker 7: poison your mind. But I'm just like, you need both,
Speaker 7: you need both.
Speaker 5: I agree you need to have And I think that's
Speaker 5: one of the things that you that I see is
Speaker 5: that a lot of people do not like being around
Speaker 5: I love being around like minded individuals, and that's not
Speaker 5: how you grow. I the reason why I'm in a
Speaker 5: position that they are because I was forced to be
Speaker 5: a part of this environment in better called education where
Speaker 5: it's very conservative, it's very a Republican and I'm not
Speaker 5: a Democrat or I'm not a Republican.
Speaker 6: I'm a black man.
Speaker 5: I had to like really understand what they were coming from.
Speaker 5: When Donald Trump won the first election, when I was
Speaker 5: at a medical school in Los Angeles, I told all
Speaker 5: my colleagues that he was going to be the president.
Speaker 5: They laughed at me, they laughed at me, and when
Speaker 5: he became president, everybody started to cry. I said, why
Speaker 5: you cry, because you really see that American, what American
Speaker 5: really is built upon. You know, probably with us as
Speaker 5: black people, we wait for white people to help us.
Speaker 5: We wait for that them to acknowledge that that that
Speaker 5: that there's racism and that slavery really impact us still
Speaker 5: to this day. They're never gonna admit that because once
Speaker 5: again they do that, then they see that they inde
Speaker 5: fit for something when they when you when they talk
Speaker 5: about privilege, they think, oh, I'm not rich. They don't
Speaker 5: understand that privilege is the fact that their skin color.
Speaker 5: And when I went back to say, when you when
Speaker 5: your skin colder, colorism is a real thing. Because colorism
Speaker 5: and because it's based upon we as black people are American,
Speaker 5: the ones who were born here for the American slave
Speaker 5: trade at all.
Speaker 6: We are, we are American, we went through we are
Speaker 6: not We're we.
Speaker 5: Don't have like when you talk about Nigeria, Nigeria still
Speaker 5: can go back to the homeland see people that look
Speaker 5: like them.
Speaker 6: Hey, when you go back to Jamaki, you still see
Speaker 6: people that look like you in power. You're in American we.
Speaker 5: Rarely see, like you said, we rarely see people in
Speaker 5: power and look like us or come from out community.
Speaker 13: You do.
Speaker 7: But it's the ones they want to see. They want
Speaker 7: you to have in front of you, meaning that you
Speaker 7: don't have a real representation of you because I think
Speaker 7: it's representation of skin color, not representation of how you think.
Speaker 7: Because that's that's where representation is wrong. Just because they're black.
Speaker 6: How many black how many how many black deans? How
Speaker 6: many black deeds in medical schools?
Speaker 5: Do you know?
Speaker 6: I don't know any exactly? How many better?
Speaker 2: Zero?
Speaker 3: Zero?
Speaker 9: Right in Atlanta?
Speaker 6: Is he black? The one that.
Speaker 5: African American woman. It's a couple of black beans. It's
Speaker 5: a couple black death. It goes back to how can
Speaker 5: you envision something when you don't see it and that's
Speaker 5: where it goes back. In order to see it, you
Speaker 5: have to you have to uh in order if you
Speaker 5: ro models are so critical. Mentorship is so critical. If
Speaker 5: you don't have anybody that you that is going through
Speaker 5: that experience and looks like you and come from yourself,
Speaker 5: it's gonna be.
Speaker 6: It's gonna be.
Speaker 5: It's gonna be a lot of adversity, a lot of
Speaker 5: pitfalls that you're gonna deal with, and you don't have
Speaker 5: that mentorship, and that guy is on how to you know,
Speaker 5: louver through these obstacles in the pitfall? Especially me, I'm
Speaker 5: a first generational college student, single parent home. I grew
Speaker 5: up in Englewood. I grew up during a crack apidemic
Speaker 5: like most And that's another thing. When you go to
Speaker 5: these conferences and you see all these life Oh they
Speaker 5: grow up in the inner city. I could tell the
Speaker 5: town who didn't grow up in the inner city. You
Speaker 5: didn't because you run away from me because I come
Speaker 5: and have this conversation with you. And so this is
Speaker 5: what I'm saying. Representation is so important. Colorism is a
Speaker 5: real thing in America. If we still think it's not over,
Speaker 5: it's still the paper bag, the brown paper bag going
Speaker 5: on in education. But this has evolved, it's evolved, it's
Speaker 5: involved over the years, everything has evolved with the state
Speaker 5: the same all the reason. Actually, thank you very much.
Speaker 6: For having me.
Speaker 3: I appreciate the response because, yeah, that's that's true. I
Speaker 3: think especially like the mentorship. But we definitely do have
Speaker 3: to evolve it. And that's that's left to us because
Speaker 3: we're the next generation where the next one is at
Speaker 3: the at the back the go ahead and read one
Speaker 3: last question?
Speaker 7: What do you think about these obscure people calling themselves
Speaker 7: doctors such as, uh, what's that brother's name?
Speaker 13: Guy?
Speaker 6: You know he was on our podcast before. Oh, what
Speaker 6: I'm talking about? Doctor anke? Is that his name?
Speaker 7: The weird dude with all the herbs like these people
Speaker 7: are practicing like quote.
Speaker 3: He is a former gift. You're not gonna call doctor
Speaker 3: Ankie a weird dude.
Speaker 6: He is any the big.
Speaker 3: We had master Herbalist Ankie on the podcast.
Speaker 1: We had him before he began his trajectory and became
Speaker 1: the rock star, which we take a small amount of
Speaker 1: credit for.
Speaker 3: But what do you sorry, were you finish the rest
Speaker 3: of the questions?
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know what he is. I'm just be
Speaker 7: honest with you.
Speaker 3: But I know he's a he's a master herbalist.
Speaker 7: Okay, that's what they called himself. What do you guys
Speaker 7: think about them? Inside of like traditional medicine, there's a
Speaker 7: lot of them. You're not the only one.
Speaker 6: There's a lot of the.
Speaker 5: Things that I can say is Uh, I worked with
Speaker 5: they do making culture who do a lot of the
Speaker 5: traditional medicine. One of the thing that with Western medicine,
Speaker 5: as they call one of the thing they say is
Speaker 5: the fact that as medicinemen, it's important that they work
Speaker 5: closely with the physicians. They both work hand in hand.
Speaker 5: So if an airbelist telling you know their patients that
Speaker 5: they're the only two and all to be all, then
Speaker 5: that should from my perspective, that's a problem.
Speaker 6: It should be they should work hand in hand.
Speaker 5: So that's my perspective on that is that if you
Speaker 5: have the knowledge, you have the foundation, if you do
Speaker 5: some type of formal education, it's related to the body
Speaker 5: to really relate to some with documented research and document documented.
Speaker 6: Practice and how to treat it. And then you know,
Speaker 6: I don't see anything wrong with it.
Speaker 5: Is only when you try to exclude UH, the trade
Speaker 5: physician out of the equation.
Speaker 7: H I think they do a little bit above right
Speaker 7: for the most part. They also I don't know if
Speaker 7: that's just a legal distinction they make, because I was
Speaker 7: just like when you said that, I'm just like to
Speaker 7: made me go back to the original subject. Why what
Speaker 7: is the number one thing you can say to a
Speaker 7: young person entering college right now to pursue a life
Speaker 7: in medicine? Because I think you said you played football
Speaker 7: and you.
Speaker 6: No, see, I'm I got a doctor.
Speaker 5: I'm an educational psychologist, so yeah, so I'm a learning specialist,
Speaker 5: so I help students come physicians. So one of the
Speaker 5: things I can and that's interesting for a conversation. I
Speaker 5: let a national initiative to increase black males and medicine
Speaker 5: is looking at student athletes involved social capital, house, social network.
Speaker 5: Athletics run hand in hand. That's another subject to hold
Speaker 5: the other tagic, but I have let a national initiative
Speaker 5: at the national level to get more black bills in
Speaker 5: athletics in medicine, I would say, I would say one
Speaker 5: is intership. You need to find ventorship. You need to
Speaker 5: you need to be open to that mentorship. The mentorship
Speaker 5: necessary because if necessary, have to be a black, veil
Speaker 5: of black. Anybody who has the knowledge, anybody who has
Speaker 5: the social capital that you need. You know, you need
Speaker 5: to you know, seek out those individual would you need
Speaker 5: to fight, look out for help. You gotta ask for help,
Speaker 5: you know it. Start day one. You have to ask
Speaker 5: for help. You cannot be you cannot you cannot be
Speaker 5: afraid to ask because sometimes when students ask for help,
Speaker 5: they feel like, oh, that's a weakness is or somebody
Speaker 5: is judging me. I don't care if you judge me.
Speaker 5: As long as I get to my end goal. Nobody
Speaker 5: is gonna remember on February sixteenth at seven o'clock that
Speaker 5: you would ask so and so for help. All they're
Speaker 5: gonna know is that at the end of the day,
Speaker 5: you reach the goal that you're trying to attain, and
Speaker 5: that's to be a physician. That's another thing that I
Speaker 5: would encourage you them to do. And one of the
Speaker 5: things that you have to do is at the end
Speaker 5: of the day, you have to have a mindset that
Speaker 5: that that this system is not gonna break me. You
Speaker 5: cannot and you have to follow You have to follow
Speaker 5: a straight You got to be disciplined, and those the
Speaker 5: basons I would say that I've seen that has worked
Speaker 5: for students that I work with to become a physician
Speaker 5: that a come from associal acting backgrounds.
Speaker 6: Excellent.
Speaker 9: Well, thank you.
Speaker 3: We really do appreciate your time.
Speaker 6: Dodtr Donovan.
Speaker 3: Do you want to shout aut any socials or anything
Speaker 3: that you want to stay included?
Speaker 6: I would love if you are interested in uh, you know, visiting. Uh.
Speaker 5: But if you're interested by documentary, you can reach out
Speaker 5: to be at Pathways into Medicine at gmail dot com
Speaker 5: or you can go to our website Pathways into Medicine uh.
Speaker 6: A consulting dot club the Pathways Thank.
Speaker 9: You very much.
Speaker 2: No no, sorry, sorry, no you I cut you off there, sorry,
Speaker 2: uh no, but so Pathways in the Medicine at gmail
Speaker 2: dot com and Pathways in the Medicine.
Speaker 6: To Medicine Consultant at Gmail.
Speaker 3: Thank you Sarah for correcting me.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 3: And I'll make sure to list both of those things
Speaker 3: and the show.
Speaker 5: And once I get my book, I would love to
Speaker 5: come back and discuss you guys a a couple of
Speaker 5: bus once I finished this book.
Speaker 1: Hey, we would love to have you back on so
Speaker 1: you know, once you get those creative juices flowing and
Speaker 1: you finish that book.
Speaker 6: Definitely come back and.
Speaker 3: Discuss because people are definitely gonna be very interested. I mean,
Speaker 3: we we need more black doctors.
Speaker 17: And especially three books. I'm gonna let you know. I man, okay,
Speaker 17: are you are you gonna dict?
Speaker 5: I would do with both. I would do what it
Speaker 5: would be a hybrid, it would be both book. It
Speaker 5: also too audio, So I was I would definitely come
Speaker 5: back and uh, I'm a little brief Submary of both books.
Speaker 5: They should be world out here in back, so I
Speaker 5: will be. I'll reach out to you guys until in April,
Speaker 5: discuss this, discuss my book that I'm coming out with.
Speaker 6: So excellent.
Speaker 3: Well we're looking forward to it. Thank you very much,
Speaker 3: doctor Donovan.
Speaker 9: Goodbye, Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you, doctor Chris.
Speaker 7: That was an interesting conversation that was awesome, like all
Speaker 7: them speaking on the same thing.