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Speaker 1: What is up, fellowstick goes, I am Dan Valley coming

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at you. Is another twenty twenty four twenty twenty five

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NBA look Ahead. We are joined today for the Cleveland

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capal years by Justin Rowan of the Chase Down Podcast,

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one of the best podcasts out there, the only to

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which will be in our podcast and YouTube description. So

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go subscribe to them if you have not done so already.

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Get into all things Calves great discussion very quickly. If

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you have not already, please subscribe Apple, Spotify, YouTube, the

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whole line. Subscribe across all platforms like comment on our

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YouTube videos, help Theagle, love us back, and can't stress

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this enough though. If you've done all those things, tell

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you book, tell people about it, and if you're new

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around here, stick around for more than just the Calves coverage.

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We do cover the entire league. Grant and I are

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exceptionally awesome at it, and we have a lot of

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fun around these parts. So consider becoming a permanent subscriber,

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even beyond these look aheads here that we're putting out.

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But let's get to more, or let's get to actual

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Cleveland Cavaliers talk with the one, the Only mister justin

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Roe justin welcome back. I think this might this might

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be year five or six for you coming on to

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do the Cavaliers lookhead with me. So I appreciate you

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coming back so many times. How the heck are you doing?

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Speaker 2: Man?

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Speaker 3: I'm doing well. I'm trying to get up to double digits.

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I'm trying to, you know, continue to hang more of

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these hardwood knocks banners around my office. But it's great

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to be back. You know, I'm not the only one

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that's back. Like it's fitting that you bring me back

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to do preview because the Cleveland Cavaliers basically in their entirety.

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Speaker 2: Are back this season, which is a.

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Speaker 3: Very unusual thing but something that I do get a

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little bit of enjoyment from for sure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, let's start there. So they obviously they

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switched tight coaches. What I'll ask you about they go

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from JB. Vickers after Kenny Atkinson. But given how the

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season unfolded, I know there were a lot of injuries,

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but just the rhetoric around the team and then also

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just knowing about what was published in the Athlete immediately afterwards,

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are you surprised that they're back in Like, what is

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basically the we don't know what's going on with the

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Icecale core right now, obviously, but they're basically just ran

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it back where it seemed like in that moment maybe

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that was a prisoner of the moment type thing, but

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it was almost not that I advocated for it. I

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personally was surprised that they're running it back to this degree.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely is a little surprising.

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Speaker 3: I mean when I saw that Athletic article come out

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and just you know, when the playoffs came to a conclusion,

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I was like, well, you know, like we're probably going

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to see this core get split up to some extent, right, Like,

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We're probably going to see a little bit of a shakeup,

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because that's just the way that the NBA operates. And

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you know, I think the Athletic article got cited.

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Speaker 2: A whole lot and nothing really came of it.

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Speaker 3: You know, it was funny to see that aggregated to

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the extent that it was. But then like the follow

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up stuff of like Darius Garland like reportedly being really

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mad that people were saying that because he didn't want

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to leave, and then you even hear like Brian Windhorn

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kind of alluded that to later on his podcast where

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he's like, you know, Garland never wanted out. This was

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maybe like an agent gone rogue type thing. I don't

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think it's even that, Like, I think it's just one

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of those conversations, Like if I had to guess, when

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I looked at that playoff series, Garland was basically put

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into an off ball roll, a shooting guard type role,

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and I wouldn't be surprised if you know, there was

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conversations about, Okay, well, what's the role going to be

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moving forward? If we're not using a point guard as

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a point guard, would it be better to have a

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mutual party in the ways or Like I'm obviously just

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speculating here, but I think the way that it was

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portrayed in that article just did not match up with reality.

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Speaker 2: Because if it was a situation where.

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Speaker 3: You know, Donovan wanted Jared gone or he wanted Darius

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gone as a condition of extending, that probably would have happened,

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because he did end up extending, right, So I think

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Donovan's extension was kind of the ultimate vote of confidence

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for what they currently have and a beef that hey,

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you know, there were external factors that led to where

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we got last season. We still kind of accomplished the

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goal that we stated on media Day, but we feel

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like there's still some meat left on the bone here

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with this group and we want to explore that space.

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Speaker 1: Was there were any of the extensions surprising to you?

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The Evan Mobile one just wasn't. And then I think

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Dona Mitchell people were still wondering was he going to

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sign it, what was it going to look like when

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he signed, and so maybe the terms were a little

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bit surprising. I personally, maybe I was reading too much

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into the athletic piece. Was just shocked when I saw

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the Jared Allen extension.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Donovan one didn't surprise me. It kind of

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seemed pretty clear that the Knicks had moved on from

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pursuing him in a lot of ways. And like, realistically speaking,

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when it comes to Donovan, my belief has been that

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he cares about winning more than market Like, I think

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that that is a guy who's number one priority is

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where can I kind of go the furthest and going

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to Miami, who finished worse than the Cavs that have

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limited assets that they'd have to kind of deplete to

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get there. That would be a lifestyle choice that's not

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a basketball choice. I would argue probably even the Knicks,

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if they had to give up a whole bunch of

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assets to get Donovan, I don't. You're still stuck with

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kind of that undersized backward with Donovan and Jalen Brunson,

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and you don't have that same defensive infrastructure to make

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up for it. Brunson, you know, the last few years,

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has rated out as a much worse defender than Darius Garland.

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You're going to need to find defense, and you'd probably

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be sending that defense out to get Donovan.

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Speaker 2: So I wasn't surprised by that.

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Speaker 3: Jared One definitely did not necessarily from you know, a

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trade standpoint, but he left money on the table, like

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serious money on the table. When when you look at

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his current contract that he's on and you know the

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ability to only extend a certain percentage above that amount,

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I was very surprised because this is such a value

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contract to have him, you know, getting like Andrew Nemhard

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or less than Andrew Nemhard money for near all star

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level production. So for him to kind of extend add

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those three years onto the deal that are basically what

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Hardenstein's getting right now. In a future cap like that

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is once again going to be a value contract. So

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I think I'm less married to the two big concept

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than I have been in the past. But I think

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whether you are on team run it back or team

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let's find a deal, the extension is a very good

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thing because I think it raises his value to a

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contending team, which makes them more attractive as a trade asset.

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And the Calves and probably in their eyes, view.

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Speaker 2: Themselves as a contending team.

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Speaker 3: So having that contract on the book is pretty valuable

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for them as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder if it had like the I looked

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at it in two ways where I wonder if he

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it was a reaction like what happened on the market

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this year when you saw so many non megastars get repressed.

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And then the best way, it seems like to get

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paid right now is for your team to value you

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and just will like they'll just resign you for a

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ton of money. And knowing that Evan Mobley's in Cleveland,

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if you pass forward two years and they're paying him

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at that point, it's well, we're the cat's going to

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be prepared to give him that big money deal if

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he was still there. So but either way, I do

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agree with your point that whether they plan on keeping

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him or if this is a contract that gets moved,

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he's more valuable to them now than he was before

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he signed the extension, which is again why it struck

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me that it was actually signed. This leads into the

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decision to move on from JB. Bickerstaff, though, But like

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so they decide to run it back. As you said,

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they think there's more meat left on the bone, but

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they think they saw enough last season, despite all the

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mitigating circumstances, to decide it was time to move on

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from JB. Bicker Staff. How do you strike that balance

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to be like, well, this group clearly has more to

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extract from it, but we're going to read enough into

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this season to move on from the head coach. Anyway,

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I think.

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Speaker 3: There was enough noise kind of looking back on the

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reporting that he had kind of lost the locker room,

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and I think when that occurs, no matter how good

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you are tactically, you basically have to make a decision

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or are we sticking with the coach or are we

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sticking with the roster is currently constructed? And I think,

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you know, for the Cavs, that's an obvious choice to

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stick with the raw.

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Speaker 2: During that scenario.

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Speaker 3: It was the first year that I felt the Cavs

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weren't more than the some of their parts. And you know,

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injuries definitely played a factor, but you know, just from

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a possession to possession by in level, I didn't feel

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that it was there this season. I felt like they

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weren't kind of stacking successes, like they weren't taking what

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worked well and then you know, adding sets to it

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and or like here's our primary look on a play,

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what's our second and third option that we're going to

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go to. It almost felt like things were getting simplified

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as the year went on, and there was just less

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buy and there was more isolation play, which historically they've

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kind of been a low isolation team for these last

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couple of years. I just felt that the level of

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buy and just wasn't there anymore. And when when that happens,

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and you know, you hear reports about you know, not

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necessarily talking to the players as frequently as he used to,

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or whatever the case may be, I think those are

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the type of situations where a mutual parting of ways

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is beneficial because honestly, like I think JB is going

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to do a really good job in Detroit. I think

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that that's a really smart hire for them. But sometimes

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in the NBA, you know, those voices kind of reached

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their expiry date, and in the case of JB and

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the Calves, I think I think it was fair to

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say that that point had kind of been reached.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of the decision to hire Kenny

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Atkinson and do you have any just thoughts or insight

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into how we can expect the Calves to change under

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his stewardship.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was an interesting hire. You know,

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when we were looking at the candidates, one of the

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things that I felt strongly about was I did not

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want a first time head coach. I wanted someone that

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had some head coaching experience. I just think when you're managing,

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you know, star personalities and whatnot, and you're handling the

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pressure of this kind of a situation, I don't want

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that to be an Adriane Griffin situation. Right Where do

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you know, no matter how good you are from a

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tactical standpoint, no matter how well you know the game

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making that translate and doing the personality portion of this

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from a head coaching perspective, isn't something that just comes

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naturally that can be assumed. I do think it's interesting

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when you look at Kenny, what he's accomplished as a

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head coach in the NBA is very similar to JB Right,

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Like you took a team that was not very good,

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got it out of the lottery and got it to

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the playoffs. In fact, like he's accomplished less as a

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head coach. But I really did like in the introductory

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press conference with Kenny Atkinson, how he spoke to you know,

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learning from the Golden State experience. I think the benefit

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of being, you know, an associate head coach on a

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championship team. I think you benefit from that experience more

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if you already have some head coaching experience, because then

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you know, all right, what were my strengths and weaknesses

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when I was in that position. And then you're looking

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at Steve Kerr in a championship run and seeing how

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he manages those same type of situations. And you know,

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he talked about that extensively in you know, his interviews

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and press conferences and whatnot, of learning to be less

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rigid as a coach, getting the input from the players,

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really making it a collaborative process, being a sponge right,

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and I just really liked everything that he had to

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save from that. And you know, I think sometimes when

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it comes to basketball, we talk about coaches as kind

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of like finished products that we're trying to figure out are.

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Speaker 2: They good or are they bad?

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Speaker 3: When in reality, they're just like players, where they have

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good and bad years. They can learn from their experiences,

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or they can learn the wrong lessons and regress as

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a coach.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a good swing to take.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I do think the fact that he

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is regarded as one of the stronger player development coaches

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that we have in the league. I think that's beneficial

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for a team that still is relying on a lot

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of internal growth to take those steps forward.

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Speaker 1: I think it also helps too, because people point out

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the concern about look how things unfolded in Brooklyn once

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he had the stars there. The situation was so unique

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because he was already there and so you spent years

254
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laying this certain culture and it just gets upended, like

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the whole thing was meteoric and how quickly it happened,

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So there's a difference in how it's happening here. And

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also he's coming into this situation rather than just he's

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already there and the ground is shifting beneath his feed

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And so that on top of what you just mentioned

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about having that experience now with the Warriors of Yeah,

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because before he gets to Brooklyn, like he just wasn't

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with the same type of star players that he was

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like Yo in Atlanta and stuff like that, they had

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a golden State. So I think those two factors made

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me I would have liked the higher regardless, because I

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like the way he coaches. I like the way his

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teams play. He seems to get This is diffferent because

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the Cavs are so good, but he does seem to

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like get more runway out of his teams, like when

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he's not dealing with as many star players. So I

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would have liked it regardless, but I like it even

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more knowing those two factors like sort of colliding.

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Speaker 3: And it also was encouraging to hear stories of you know,

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Draymond and Steph reaching out to Donovan A and Darius

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you know obviously both of those guys have relationships with

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Stephan Draymond as well, and them being like Kenny really

277
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learned from this experience, Like Kenny played a big role

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in us winning a championship like Ken Kenny's the guy

279
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that's going to help get you over the mountaintop. And

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I definitely shared some of those concerns with Brooklyn of okay,

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like you got it done with role players, but you

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didn't get it done with stars. But you also got

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to remember who those stars were and how difficult those

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stars were. One of them, in fact, I think his

285
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quote was, we don't need a coach. Those were also

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stars that weren't happy with the coach that they handpicked.

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Speaker 2: To coach the teams.

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Speaker 3: Those are stars that on multiple occasions have not been

289
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happy with the franchises that they handpicked going to that

290
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reached those expiry dates very very very quickly. So I

291
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think this is a little bit of a different situation.

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And I think one of the things that doesn't get

293
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talked about enough when it comes to the Cavs, and

294
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you know, a lot of the focuses on two guards,

295
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two bigs and all like, historically.

296
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Speaker 2: Have teams won like that.

297
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Speaker 3: The thing to remember is like historically a lot of teams,

298
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there's not a lot of teams that have won without

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a top ten like a consensus top ten player and

300
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the Cavs. Like, as good as Donovan is, he's not

301
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a consensus top ten player. The teams that have one

302
00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,879
with those type of players usually get production from a

303
00:14:17,879 --> 00:14:20,159
whole lot of different guys. You surround them with all

304
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star level talent. I think the Cavs have four all

305
00:14:22,559 --> 00:14:26,320
star caliber players on their roster, So getting all four

306
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of those guys to work and managing those personalities, I

307
00:14:29,159 --> 00:14:31,519
think that's a different skill set. Then you know, we

308
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have a hierarchy of two super duper stars and everyone

309
00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:36,480
else is just falling in line.

310
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Speaker 1: It's funny you say about Dona Mitchell. I think this

311
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,279
is probably a season he came closest to being a

312
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:43,799
consensus top ten players. I had him on my first

313
00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,240
team All NBA before the injury both knuked his performance,

314
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:49,159
and like then he just wasn't eligible too.

315
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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's and that's part of why I say consensus

316
00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:56,440
because in my mind, like I always think tiars matter

317
00:14:56,519 --> 00:14:59,399
so much more than rankings, right, Like, there might be

318
00:14:59,559 --> 00:15:03,480
you know, five top ten players in the league in

319
00:15:03,519 --> 00:15:07,320
any given year, and I definitely think Donovan is in that,

320
00:15:07,639 --> 00:15:11,279
you know, caliber of guy that can outplay any player

321
00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,559
in the league in a playoff series. I felt that

322
00:15:13,559 --> 00:15:15,679
way about Kyrie Irving back in the day, where you

323
00:15:15,679 --> 00:15:18,399
know people wouldn't have them necessarily as a top ten player,

324
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,600
but we could also see him outplay Steph in multiple finals. Right, Like,

325
00:15:22,679 --> 00:15:26,080
you're of that caliber, but it's still a different thing

326
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than when you're that consensus Lebron James type guy, and

327
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you know that that takes some that takes some adjusting.

328
00:15:32,679 --> 00:15:36,120
But I honestly think like he's closer to like a

329
00:15:36,159 --> 00:15:39,559
Tatum than Tatum is to a Lebron caliber guy. Right

330
00:15:39,639 --> 00:15:43,440
Like Boston won a championship without Tatum really playing that. Well,

331
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,399
that's not the case for like a Joel Embiid or

332
00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:49,200
a Nikola Jokic or Lebron James and all that. I

333
00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:52,039
think from a Cavs standpoint, if they're going to want

334
00:15:52,039 --> 00:15:54,720
to contend, it's going to need to look similar to Boston,

335
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where you know, if one of the stars doesn't have it,

336
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we have other guys that are able to contral be

337
00:16:00,159 --> 00:16:02,759
at a star level for a playoff series and help

338
00:16:03,159 --> 00:16:05,639
raise the tie day and give the team a chance

339
00:16:05,679 --> 00:16:06,159
to compete.

340
00:16:07,279 --> 00:16:09,279
Speaker 1: I think that's also kind of what I saw for

341
00:16:09,399 --> 00:16:12,600
Donovan Mitchell during that injury stretch. Where you don't have mobily,

342
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,519
don't have deres gone on in the stuff he was

343
00:16:14,559 --> 00:16:17,679
doing as balancing in terms of being the floor general

344
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,879
for everybody else, but also having to carry the offense

345
00:16:19,919 --> 00:16:22,519
as a score. Even dating back to his time in Utah,

346
00:16:22,559 --> 00:16:25,960
I just never seen a balancing act like that from him.

347
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,159
And it continued along this trend of for the most part,

348
00:16:29,639 --> 00:16:32,240
the Donovan Mitchell experience in Cleveland. For me, and I'm

349
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,559
curious how you feel about this, it is just it's

350
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exceeded even what my expectations were when I had pretty

351
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:38,639
long you know, I was higher on the Caves last

352
00:16:38,679 --> 00:16:40,320
year and we did this than you were turned out.

353
00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,480
I was wrong injuries, really new to that. But like

354
00:16:43,639 --> 00:16:46,240
so it's exceeded my expectations, just the Donovan Mitchell experience

355
00:16:46,279 --> 00:16:47,320
in Cleveland.

356
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it definitely exceeded mine.

357
00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:53,279
Speaker 3: I was not incredibly high on Donovan Mitchell prior to

358
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,200
him coming into the Caves. I was a little skeptical

359
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,399
win when the trade went down. You know, looking at

360
00:16:58,799 --> 00:17:02,159
his tenure in YOUWTI, he had one season of career

361
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:07,359
average efficiency, right the majority of those years the Jazz

362
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:09,119
were better with him off the court than they were

363
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:11,359
on the court. I do think that he has grown

364
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,039
as a player. I've been incredibly impressed with the way

365
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:17,400
that he carries himself both on and off the court,

366
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:23,119
and I'm really encouraged by his ability to continue to grow.

367
00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,599
I think that stretch with Garland and MOBILEI out was

368
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,480
the best playmaking that I'd seen from him, really, really,

369
00:17:30,519 --> 00:17:34,359
really impressive. You know, obviously there's a disclaimer that you know,

370
00:17:34,519 --> 00:17:37,240
they won eleven and three in those games with Donovan

371
00:17:37,279 --> 00:17:39,960
and Jarrett. They only played two teams within above five

372
00:17:40,039 --> 00:17:42,920
hundred record. One was the Milwaukee who was below five

373
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,359
hundred after the firing of Adrian Griffin and with an

374
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,599
interim coach at the time, and the other one was Orlando,

375
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,799
who we know that they're better than they beat them

376
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:53,000
in a playoff series, so you know, maybe that had

377
00:17:53,039 --> 00:17:55,599
something to do with it. But I do think his

378
00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,400
playmaking took another step forward last year, and I just

379
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,720
think that the infrastructure that the Calves have had, Like

380
00:18:02,759 --> 00:18:04,599
He's talked in the past about how you know, he

381
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,759
benefits from playing off of a point guard, whether it

382
00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:10,480
was Ricky Rubio, Mike Conley, and then you know Darius.

383
00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:13,440
He had his best individual season they both had their

384
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,839
best individual seasons in twenty two to twenty three, So

385
00:18:17,079 --> 00:18:21,640
I think, you know, that muscle memory of handling that

386
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:24,240
playmaking load is going to help as they stagger. I

387
00:18:24,279 --> 00:18:26,720
think it's also going to help as we transition to

388
00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:29,200
a Kenny Atkinson offense where you're going to have a

389
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,400
lot of guys initiating, You're going to have a lot

390
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,839
of guys responsible for creating and having Donovan improve as

391
00:18:35,839 --> 00:18:38,799
a playmaker, I think is going to fit neatly into

392
00:18:38,839 --> 00:18:39,799
what Kenny wants to do.

393
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,799
Speaker 1: So before we get into more of the granular aspects

394
00:18:43,839 --> 00:18:46,240
of this team, its upcoming season, what is the biggest

395
00:18:46,279 --> 00:18:50,400
single development storyline whatever that you're just looking at or

396
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,599
going to be monitoring, not just heading into next season,

397
00:18:52,599 --> 00:18:53,599
but over the course of it.

398
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,319
Speaker 3: You know, you bring on someone that covers the calves

399
00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,200
all the time so they don't give the same answers

400
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,240
that the national folk.

401
00:19:00,079 --> 00:19:00,519
Speaker 2: Are going to do.

402
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:03,119
Speaker 3: But I think I've got to go default here and

403
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,720
say the growth of Evan Mobley. I flat out think

404
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,559
when you are building an offense around two smaller guards,

405
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,559
you need to have a front court initiator for it

406
00:19:12,599 --> 00:19:14,960
to work. Right, Like we saw that with Toronto when

407
00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,480
they won the championship with Fred Van Vlieta and Kyle

408
00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:21,480
Lowry playing major minutes together. You had that with Marc

409
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,759
Gasol right, and Kawhi Leonard was able to do some

410
00:19:23,839 --> 00:19:26,839
of that. You need to have a front court initiator

411
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:30,720
to alleviate the pressure and allow those guards to not

412
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,359
have to face you know, the traps and the craft

413
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:38,039
that defenses can throw at them. So Evan Mobley developing

414
00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:40,680
as a secondary initiator for the offense and being that

415
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,839
at least valve and allowing Donovan and Darius to get

416
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:47,960
easier looks off ball at times, I think that is

417
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,839
what helps make their offense more multifaceted and gives them

418
00:19:51,839 --> 00:19:55,119
a chance to compete against the Boston's, New York, Philly,

419
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,880
Milwaukee's of the world, because you know, the thing about

420
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,160
them in the playoffs is their defense is held up

421
00:20:02,079 --> 00:20:06,480
their defense. Well, actually their offense and defense was better

422
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,640
against Boston than Dallas' was.

423
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 2: Their defense with both guards.

424
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,319
Speaker 3: And only one big has been elite in the regular

425
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,799
season in the playoffs, right, Like so often people say

426
00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:18,880
you need to have Jared Allen and Evan Mobley to

427
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,640
make Donovan and Darius work defensively. No, No, it worked

428
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,839
really really damn well with both guards and just one

429
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:26,319
of the bigs.

430
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:27,319
Speaker 2: Even in the playoffs.

431
00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:32,119
Speaker 3: They outscored Boston with Darius and Donovan and Mobley on.

432
00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:33,759
Speaker 2: The court for the playoff series.

433
00:20:33,839 --> 00:20:38,799
Speaker 3: Right, Like the thing that hasn't translated, whether it's one big,

434
00:20:38,799 --> 00:20:40,720
whether it's two bigs, whether it's two guards, whether it's

435
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,480
one guard, the offense has not translated to the playoffs.

436
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,359
And I think getting mobilely to the point where he

437
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,240
can help be that front court initiate of the offense

438
00:20:49,559 --> 00:20:52,599
gives them the best chance to make what's worked well

439
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,000
in the regular season at times to something that can

440
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,079
you know, be viable in the playoffs and give them

441
00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:58,960
a chance to compete.

442
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: Now what needs to be done on Mobley's part, And

443
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,839
I do think this eventually ties in the question of

444
00:21:05,839 --> 00:21:07,920
where you're at with the dual big setup for him

445
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,799
to reach that level. I think the obvious low hanging

446
00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:12,000
through we saw a little bit of it when he

447
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,119
came back from injury is taking three pointers. He was

448
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,200
almost a two a game from there. Hit on a

449
00:21:16,279 --> 00:21:18,599
nice clip didn't necessarily hold up in the playoffs, but

450
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,039
like to do what you're asking him to do it

451
00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:23,319
seems like one there needs to be more space and

452
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,000
he's going to be part of generating that space. But

453
00:21:25,039 --> 00:21:27,079
too there's gonna need to be other things like can

454
00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:29,160
he tighten up his handle and not just in space

455
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,640
but in traffic. But if you're looking at that role

456
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,680
or for him to actualize that ceiling, what's the one

457
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,279
thing that you'll be monitoring them most closely about his development,

458
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,680
like to make that happen to him to fulfill that role.

459
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if I can pick one thing, it's

460
00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:45,119
it would be the handle, Like I want the handle

461
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,160
to improve because I think that would help, you know,

462
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,400
him be a more consistent initiator of the offense. I

463
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,640
think that would help him be a threat and be

464
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,480
able to put rim pressure on. My favorite stat is

465
00:21:58,519 --> 00:22:01,319
Evan Mobley last year despite missing you know, a good

466
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,559
chunk of the season with that surgery, he made more

467
00:22:04,599 --> 00:22:07,160
threes last season than Bam ad of Bios made in

468
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:11,359
his career and Zion Williams Williamson has made in their careers.

469
00:22:11,839 --> 00:22:13,960
Like they don't get talked about in that way, right

470
00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:16,039
Like Bam, you know he hit some three so with

471
00:22:16,079 --> 00:22:19,039
a shorter line in FEBA competition and it's, oh my god,

472
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,880
is this the year stretch five Bam?

473
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 2: Right?

474
00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 3: And we're we're putting kelll way or here to to

475
00:22:24,559 --> 00:22:26,880
play the five, and BAM's moving over to the four, right,

476
00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:32,240
like he's what four years five years older than Evan

477
00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:35,279
Mobley and Mobiley's made more threes last season than Bam

478
00:22:35,319 --> 00:22:37,359
has in his career. Like, I would like to see

479
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,759
the volume go up, right, you shot thirty seven percent

480
00:22:39,839 --> 00:22:40,279
last year.

481
00:22:40,319 --> 00:22:41,599
Speaker 2: I'd like to see that tick up.

482
00:22:41,599 --> 00:22:44,519
Speaker 3: The three three attempts per game. I think that's where

483
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:46,519
I would feel comfortable, But I don't. I don't want

484
00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:49,160
to see him taking more than that. What I want

485
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,400
to see is him, you know, being able to put

486
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,359
that riom pressure on, being able to handle the ball,

487
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,599
bringing it up in transition and helping them up their pace.

488
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,240
Like that's the kind of stuff that can help unstick

489
00:22:59,279 --> 00:23:04,119
the offense. And it like you don't hear Pelicans folks

490
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:08,160
talk about well like we need, uh, you know, a

491
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,559
stretch five to work around Zion right because we have

492
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,039
Herb Jones out there who shoots like Isaac O Korro

493
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,920
and gets ignored at the exact same rate. And you know,

494
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,599
we we have Yonis who take one three a game,

495
00:23:19,839 --> 00:23:22,240
although he's gone to Washington, like you don't hear that,

496
00:23:22,319 --> 00:23:24,880
But you don't hear that because Zion is able to

497
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,799
negate that spacing issue by his ability to create. So

498
00:23:28,839 --> 00:23:30,680
I think I want to see that from Evan mobile

499
00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:33,720
more than anything else. And like if I could, you know,

500
00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:36,279
gift him with the one skill or one thing from

501
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,839
you know, the summer workout videos to have translated, it's

502
00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:39,440
definitely that.

503
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 1: I also wonder too with those two specifically, I actually

504
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,319
do think Pelicans fan well, I guess they want any

505
00:23:45,319 --> 00:23:46,720
sort of five on the team right now, but I

506
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,599
do think that it was kind of a yeah they did.

507
00:23:48,599 --> 00:23:49,359
There was kind of.

508
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 2: When well, Carter JUNI you're not on there, Sorry to

509
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,039
get sidetracked, but.

510
00:23:53,319 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: With Zion and Bam, it's they can score as a

511
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,599
play finisher in such like a physical way that and

512
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,839
even's Iron on the ball, like he's not your traditional

513
00:24:01,839 --> 00:24:03,839
big and I wonder if Evan Mobley I think he's

514
00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:05,680
gotten better at that, but like that was also a

515
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,400
concern about how he's going to deal with contact and physicality.

516
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,839
So even if he as a play finisher, felt like

517
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,640
more of a physical presence. I wonder if the discourse

518
00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,880
around him would be different. I also think he probably

519
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,839
just set like the bar too high for himself where

520
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:21,559
he was my Defensive Player of the Year pick, not

521
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,519
this past he's obviously, but the one before, and then

522
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:26,480
just he sets the bar so high through his first

523
00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:30,039
like year, and then the Cavs are quote unquote honest

524
00:24:30,039 --> 00:24:32,880
accelerated timeline because of the Donovan Mitchell trade. I do

525
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,400
wonder how that's also impacted how people view him too.

526
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, to give him some credit too,

527
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,480
I think they're on an accelerated timeline because of Evan Mobley,

528
00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:44,759
right Like, they were a lottery team and drafting Evan

529
00:24:44,799 --> 00:24:48,799
Mobley immediately made them a elite defense, right And once

530
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,440
you have that end of the floor figured out, you

531
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,920
can make a move for Donovan Mitchell, right like. So

532
00:24:54,079 --> 00:24:57,799
I think you know, his growth has kind of helped

533
00:24:57,839 --> 00:25:00,519
accelerate that timeline as well. So, but he's definitely a

534
00:25:00,599 --> 00:25:03,319
victim of that to some extent. But you look at

535
00:25:03,319 --> 00:25:07,119
it from a per thirty six possession kind of standpoint,

536
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,160
is averaging career highs and everything, right like, his minutes

537
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,079
came down just when he was on minute restriction, but

538
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,839
like points, field goal percentage, three point percentage, you know,

539
00:25:15,039 --> 00:25:17,519
defensive metrics, all that kind of stuff.

540
00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:20,319
Speaker 2: Efficiency, It was all career highs.

541
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,759
Speaker 3: I just think, you know, he's just got around out

542
00:25:24,759 --> 00:25:28,160
his game and do things that he's already shown at

543
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,880
a higher frequency. Right, Like he shot better from mid

544
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,559
range last year. I think that's one of the big

545
00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:36,680
differentiations between he and Bam is Bam is that kind

546
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,720
of credible threat to shoot from the free throw line

547
00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:41,079
at all times. You can run an offense and have

548
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,839
him as that hub at you know, at the nail,

549
00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:47,279
and you have to respect his jumper from that spot.

550
00:25:47,319 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 2: If Mobiley can do that, I think.

551
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 3: That opens up a wide variety of options, and it

552
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,440
makes easier to have Alan in the dunker spot and

553
00:25:54,559 --> 00:25:57,799
run some actions with the guards and whatnot. So I

554
00:25:57,839 --> 00:26:02,240
think what he needs to do isn't something that he's

555
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,279
never shown.

556
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 2: Right, Like he's shown it in spurts. He'll hit those shots.

557
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,160
Speaker 3: You know, I forget which team he hit the game

558
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,599
winning mid range shot against it. He's hit some big

559
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,279
threes coming down in the clutch in the fourth quarter

560
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,079
and stuff like that.

561
00:26:15,759 --> 00:26:17,839
Speaker 2: He's just got to do it. Consistently and at a

562
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:18,599
higher volume.

563
00:26:19,559 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 1: The I guess the two concerns I would have though,

564
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,400
is so Donald Mitchell Darius Garland can play fantastic, like

565
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,599
they work off the ball like defense need to respect them,

566
00:26:28,599 --> 00:26:30,559
but we also kind of you know, you've talked about

567
00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:32,759
it a couple of times about the concern about moving

568
00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:34,559
Darius Garland off the ball too much to where it

569
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:37,839
sort of disinvolves him. And so is the opportunity going

570
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,759
to be there for Evan Mobley to explore like the

571
00:26:41,799 --> 00:26:45,480
depths of like getting to that point with like him

572
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,680
as an individual ceiling of course, but then also if

573
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,400
you're trying to maximize his time alongside Jared Allen, like

574
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,319
is there going to be sort of enough reps to

575
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:54,319
go around there to It's not a matter of Donovan,

576
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,039
I want to make clear anyone listening. It's not a

577
00:26:56,039 --> 00:26:58,480
matter of Donovan Mitchell Darius Garland can't. It's how much

578
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,160
do you want to invest in moving them away away

579
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,200
from the ball to kind of help facilitate the optimal

580
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:04,240
version of Evan Mobley.

581
00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a really good question, And you know,

582
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,440
you also have to factor in the growth that Jared

583
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,400
Allen showed last year, right Like, I thought, you know,

584
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,559
it is the best season of his career, and he

585
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,000
was passing like really well the short role, and he

586
00:27:17,079 --> 00:27:19,279
was someone that you could initiate offense through at times,

587
00:27:19,759 --> 00:27:22,240
Like you know, it's it's a good problem to have,

588
00:27:22,319 --> 00:27:24,119
but it is a problem to have at times. And

589
00:27:24,559 --> 00:27:28,000
you know, I think what he's going to need to

590
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,559
do within that starting lineup is going to be different

591
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,279
than you know, over the course of the game. Like

592
00:27:32,319 --> 00:27:35,160
I think, if he's taking three threes a game, I

593
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,480
want those threes to occur when Jared Allen is on

594
00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:39,839
the court, right Like, when Jared Allen is not on

595
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,279
the court, I want to see, you know, let's run

596
00:27:42,319 --> 00:27:46,039
some more offense through him, right Like, I think, you know, historically,

597
00:27:46,079 --> 00:27:48,400
the funny thing to look at is when you look

598
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:52,559
at the two years worth of lineup data, Evan Mobley

599
00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:55,480
and Donovan Mitchell as a pairing without Garland and Allen

600
00:27:55,759 --> 00:27:59,359
does not work. Their net rating is you know about

601
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,799
where the Brooklyn and that's where last season. But him

602
00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:07,079
and Darius work incredibly well, Donovan and Jared work incredibly well.

603
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,119
Darius and Jared did not work really well. So I

604
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:15,440
think that's a really interesting dynamic. But ultimately, like those

605
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,759
guys will play eighteen minutes together per game, that's typically

606
00:28:18,759 --> 00:28:21,000
where you're at. You do still have kind of thirty

607
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,920
minutes to explore the space where it's going to be

608
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,319
one garden. It's going to be one big out there.

609
00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:30,559
It will be interesting to see though, what happens in

610
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:33,880
in closing minutes, right, And you know, maybe this is

611
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,799
one of the benefits of having Jared on a value contract, right,

612
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,519
Like that deal apparently is supposed to be like fifteen

613
00:28:39,599 --> 00:28:43,400
sixteen percent of the cap once those cap numbers come in,

614
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,200
like fifteen sixteen percent, Like we're talking about max Druce

615
00:28:46,279 --> 00:28:49,359
money in terms of you know, percentage of the cap.

616
00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 2: If you need to play him.

617
00:28:50,799 --> 00:28:52,759
Speaker 3: Twenty eight minutes in a game rather than you know,

618
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:57,160
thirty four, that is something that you can do and

619
00:28:57,519 --> 00:29:00,440
like you're not kind of handcuffed to make those decisions.

620
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,599
But I think if we want to look at the

621
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,319
best version of what this CAS roster can be, it's

622
00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:08,920
maximizing those minutes when you know all four of them

623
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,640
are out there together twenty two to twenty three. They

624
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,839
did that, they were tremendous. You look at the last

625
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,440
forty one games of that season, and Darius was getting

626
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,920
twenty two and eight, Mobiley was getting his eighteen and ten,

627
00:29:20,279 --> 00:29:22,799
Jared was getting his fifteen and ten, Donovan was getting

628
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,920
his like twenty eight and four whatever he was getting right, Like,

629
00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:28,039
all four of them were eating and they were playing

630
00:29:28,039 --> 00:29:31,839
well alongside in one another. But I think making it

631
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,759
so that there's the buy into the system that the

632
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,759
minutes together are maximized, the minutes of hard are maximized,

633
00:29:39,039 --> 00:29:42,319
where it's not, as you know, Stark of okay, well,

634
00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:44,839
what are these pairings like, figuring out how to make

635
00:29:44,839 --> 00:29:47,720
Donovan and Mobile work, figuring out how to get you know,

636
00:29:47,839 --> 00:29:51,119
Darius and j back on the same page like they

637
00:29:51,319 --> 00:29:54,079
were in the All Star season. Like, I think all

638
00:29:54,119 --> 00:29:56,640
of that stuff is going to be kind of one

639
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,039
of those interesting things to track with his coaching staff.

640
00:30:00,119 --> 00:30:02,359
Speaker 1: My final concern with it would be that there's a

641
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,799
chance Evan Mobley does all these things and the Cavs

642
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:08,200
play it perfectly to some extent may not matter because

643
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,279
and I'm not comparing him to this player, but we

644
00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:13,079
saw it in OKAC when Josh Giddy was actually taking

645
00:30:13,119 --> 00:30:16,160
and hitting threes and defenses still didn't care because it

646
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,240
was never enough at a clip, so it was still

647
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,559
a It still made Okac thunder when he was on

648
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:22,519
the floor with some of these other guys a lot

649
00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:24,880
easier to defend. And so I'm gonna be very interested

650
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,279
to track that dynamic. But my own answer to my

651
00:30:27,839 --> 00:30:30,759
own concern has been you mentioned that first season they had,

652
00:30:30,759 --> 00:30:33,119
they were in the ninety six percentile of offensive efficiency

653
00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:34,720
with all four of those guys on the court, and

654
00:30:34,759 --> 00:30:37,640
I think three of their most their three top used

655
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,200
lineups all included a fifth member of the rotation that

656
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,480
was a below average shooter. You would call them. It

657
00:30:42,519 --> 00:30:45,160
was asco Quorro at the time, Carris Lavert. I think

658
00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:47,359
that might have been the Lamar steven Gee. I can't remember.

659
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that Lamar was the only one that it

660
00:30:49,519 --> 00:30:50,960
didn't work, I believe.

661
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: And so like that's what I continue to let John

662
00:30:53,279 --> 00:30:55,160
Tore was like, Okay, well, even if it's like like

663
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,240
if Evan Mobley, if that version ember Mobley's hitting threes

664
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,880
and defense is they're gonna have to respect him a

665
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:00,440
little bit more so they can play and say, you

666
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,400
know what, we're fine with his three attempts per game

667
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,680
and he can make two of them and we're just

668
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,039
not going to care every time. But I point back

669
00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:08,519
to that season where we just have this extended sample

670
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,720
I would call it at full strength. It was worse

671
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,599
circumstances when you look at the supporting cast. So I

672
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,880
almost don't understand how this isn't going to work now

673
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,680
if everybody's healthy. So it's like I've concerned, Like I

674
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:22,960
have concerns, but I'm like, well, just let's go look

675
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,599
at the first season when they had less experience and

676
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,359
less talent like together, I just so that's that's where

677
00:31:27,359 --> 00:31:27,720
I'm at.

678
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 3: And that goes back to what I said before about

679
00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:33,839
if you wanting to build a contending team without a

680
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,240
consensus top ten player where it's just inarguable that you

681
00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:39,799
had this superstar Lebron James level.

682
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: Talent, you don't bridge that gap by.

683
00:31:43,759 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 3: Trading all star level talent for role players that just

684
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:49,400
you know, fit an archetype, you know, like a big wing,

685
00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:52,200
Like let's move Jared Allen for Cam Johnson. Okay, well,

686
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,960
like now you have a big wing, but like you're

687
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:58,400
getting worse from a talent perspective, right, like or you know,

688
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,839
as much as I love Brian win Horse, like the

689
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,240
fact that he is so adamant that Dono Mitchell can

690
00:32:03,279 --> 00:32:05,200
be the only ball handler on the team and we

691
00:32:05,279 --> 00:32:07,880
got to run a helio centric offense with spot up

692
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,720
guys in one big around Donald Mitchell.

693
00:32:09,759 --> 00:32:11,599
Speaker 2: Like that never works.

694
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,079
Speaker 3: Like Dallas learned that lesson and got Kyrie for Luca,

695
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,920
right Like you know, like that, like Donovan Mitchell playing

696
00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:22,920
Russell Westbrook martyr ball is not going to bridge the gap, right, Like,

697
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,839
this is not what needs to be done here, or

698
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,640
like we have to get all star level talent.

699
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: We need to maximize all of this talent.

700
00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:31,559
Speaker 3: I don't think Donovan's as good of a playmaker as

701
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,440
Russ was, and it didn't work with Russ, right, Like, uh,

702
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,319
I share some of your concerns. For for sure, I

703
00:32:38,319 --> 00:32:40,920
think if Mobley is, you know, taking three threes a

704
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,960
game at the same percenta you did last year, you know,

705
00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:45,039
thirty seven percent, I agree with you. I don't think

706
00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:47,640
people are like sprinting out to the three point line

707
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,079
to go guard him, but I think him being a

708
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,440
viable threat there is at least important because if he's

709
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,000
out there and he gets the ball and you're completely

710
00:32:57,079 --> 00:32:59,200
sagging off of him, all right, I'm just going to

711
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,279
do a little dribble hand and off to to you know,

712
00:33:01,359 --> 00:33:03,359
Garland or Mitchell. I'm I'm going to take this shot

713
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,200
myself and I'll convert some of these. But I think

714
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,200
that the handle, that's where it becomes so important, because

715
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,160
if you're giving a seven footer that's you know, added

716
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:16,400
strength that finishes well historically around the rim, that has

717
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,440
a good floater, good touch from you know, that mid range.

718
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,400
If you're giving him a head start and you're flat

719
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,319
footed at defender, sitting in the paint, you are going

720
00:33:26,319 --> 00:33:27,200
to get exposed.

721
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 2: You are not you know, that's why people come out

722
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:30,240
at Yannest.

723
00:33:30,319 --> 00:33:32,599
Speaker 3: They don't want to give him that running start, even

724
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,200
though he can't shoot from three right.

725
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: So that's why I think that that is so important.

726
00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 3: And you know, I think guys that shoot well but

727
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,720
at a low volume, I think that's more of a

728
00:33:44,759 --> 00:33:48,519
concern at the perimeter than it is for a power

729
00:33:48,519 --> 00:33:51,000
forward or a center right. Like, I think that's just

730
00:33:51,039 --> 00:33:53,440
a different equation, and that's where we run into someone

731
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,359
like Isaac o Korro who shot thirty nine percent from three.

732
00:33:56,519 --> 00:33:59,359
But because the volume isn't there, guys are going to

733
00:33:59,440 --> 00:33:59,799
leave him.

734
00:33:59,799 --> 00:34:00,359
Speaker 2: Why open.

735
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,519
Speaker 3: I think he took two threes with the defender within

736
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:06,000
six feet last year, and you know, to go back

737
00:34:06,039 --> 00:34:08,800
to the Pelicans example, exact same thing happened to Herb Jones.

738
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,360
I think he shot forty percent but did not have

739
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,920
a single contested three in the playoffs because people are like, well,

740
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,159
if you're going to shoot forty percent, but you're taking

741
00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:20,079
three threes like worst case scenario hit one or two here, like,

742
00:34:20,119 --> 00:34:22,960
we can live with that in order to pack the

743
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,880
pain and take away you know, more consistent threats like

744
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:28,159
a Zion Williamson.

745
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,039
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting. I would say definitely when he's

746
00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:32,519
at the five, Like, I don't think it matters. I

747
00:34:32,519 --> 00:34:34,400
still think we're at the point where with us from

748
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,119
the four spot, I still think you could see some

749
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:37,400
of the like similar ill.

750
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,559
Speaker 2: Effects there of that, oh for sure, for sure.

751
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,519
Speaker 3: I just think you know, you can mitigate some of

752
00:34:42,559 --> 00:34:44,079
that by by improving the handle.

753
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 2: It would be my argument.

754
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: So Darius Garland had the numbers on his season ended

755
00:34:50,519 --> 00:34:52,039
up being mostly fine, like when you just look at

756
00:34:52,039 --> 00:34:54,559
the individual numbers, but it was just a very uneven campaign.

757
00:34:55,039 --> 00:34:57,800
How much is there actually there's stuff he could do better?

758
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,880
We've talked about his finishing around the basket in the

759
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:01,679
the past. I also wonder if they're able to open

760
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,960
up more space for him, if that just improves. You've

761
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,599
mentioned I know you've been an advocate of like, well,

762
00:35:05,639 --> 00:35:07,679
you don't want to disinvolve him from the offense too much,

763
00:35:07,679 --> 00:35:09,400
like in that playoff series it felt like he wasn't

764
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,119
on the ball enough. Is there any level of concern

765
00:35:12,159 --> 00:35:14,039
here or do we just talk this up to that

766
00:35:14,199 --> 00:35:17,159
man had his jaw wired shut and just the physical

767
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:20,119
toll that has to extract from you of probably losing weight,

768
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,599
not being as strong, that we just need to write

769
00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:24,960
off whatever issues we had with him last season.

770
00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:28,199
Speaker 3: I don't think we write it off entirely, because I

771
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,639
think you know, when you have a kind of consistent

772
00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:33,719
injury history, that's something you have to factor right, Like

773
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,320
you have to think about that with Darius, You have

774
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,280
to think about that with Donovan, Like Donovan's missed more

775
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,440
games than Darius the last four or five years.

776
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 2: Like that, we have to think about that.

777
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,119
Speaker 3: We have to think, you know, about guard depth, because

778
00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:47,239
these guys are going to miss some time. But in

779
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,559
terms of you know, the stuff that went wrong, like

780
00:35:51,159 --> 00:35:53,480
I do try I do chalk that up, you know,

781
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:56,960
the injuries. You know, people focus on on the jaw

782
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,159
injury rightly, so you know, he did have the situation

783
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,079
with his grandmother passing as well, where you know, he's

784
00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:05,559
incredibly close to his family, so after games, he would

785
00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:07,559
fly back home to be there with his family, then

786
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:10,079
fly back to Cleveland or wherever they were playing, and

787
00:36:10,119 --> 00:36:12,440
then you know, play another game and fly back to

788
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,440
his family and kind of do that for an extended

789
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,199
period of time. And you know, when you're already working

790
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,559
your way back from an injury, that's going to be difficult.

791
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,440
And you know, in the long list of things that

792
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,400
went wrong for him last year, I think people overlook

793
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,360
what happened at the start of the year, right He

794
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,960
and Donovan started the year with hamstring injuries. He injured

795
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,039
his shooting hand, I believe in the first game back

796
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:37,440
and was wearing you know, a brace for about a

797
00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:40,679
month kind of on and off trying to figure that out.

798
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,719
And I think that really impacted his ability to handle

799
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,079
the ball. Like you saw the turnovers go way up

800
00:36:46,079 --> 00:36:48,920
for him. He saw a reluctance to take three points

801
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,760
because he just couldn't grip the ball ironically, like his

802
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,920
stats were still fine in that stretch because he was

803
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,559
actually finishing really well at the rim and he was

804
00:36:56,639 --> 00:37:00,360
drawing free throws. He just became such like he was

805
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,119
seeking out contact to such an extent to kind of

806
00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:06,039
compensate for the fact that he couldn't really grip the

807
00:37:06,039 --> 00:37:08,800
ball to shoot that he ended up ramming as Johan

808
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,480
Ta Kristavs for Sincas and things went sideways there. But

809
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,519
you know, that Boston injury was terrible timing because at

810
00:37:16,519 --> 00:37:18,559
that point the hand injury had to recovered and we

811
00:37:18,599 --> 00:37:21,159
did get like this extended stretch of oh, there's you know,

812
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,840
the twenty two to eight Darius on great efficiency not

813
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,920
turning the ball over that we're used to, right, Like.

814
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 2: I think.

815
00:37:29,679 --> 00:37:32,639
Speaker 3: A lot of the Darius concern that a hear, especially

816
00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:34,800
from national podcasts, is like, well, you know, he just

817
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,119
hasn't been the same since Donovan was there, Like it

818
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:39,960
just you know, his game has completely fallen off, and

819
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:40,440
that like.

820
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: Right off that first season together. Then I guess like that.

821
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that couldn't be further from the truth.

822
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 3: Like he averaged i think zero point one fewer points

823
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,360
per game, but actually more per thirty six he just

824
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:54,679
played fewer minutes. His efficiency went way up across the board,

825
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,760
His defensive metrics went through the roof. His assistant turnover

826
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,199
ratio was second to only Nikola Jokic among like high

827
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,679
usage players like this is a guy that like that.

828
00:38:04,679 --> 00:38:06,400
That was the player that we saw and I was

829
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,960
really expecting to see a step forward from him in

830
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,559
a leap going into next year. When we talked to

831
00:38:11,639 --> 00:38:13,239
him in media day, he was talking about how we

832
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,280
really wanted to up the volume for his three point attempts,

833
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:19,760
which of course got sidetracked and derailed by an injury

834
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,039
to the shooting hands. So I have some concerns because

835
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,079
I think when you're building positive momentum and you have

836
00:38:26,519 --> 00:38:28,920
a setback like this and you know, just kind of

837
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,239
one of these throwaway years, I think it is a

838
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,800
challenge to get back to not only where you were before,

839
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,960
but then you know, take that step forward that you

840
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,639
were anticipating taking. That's, you know, not something that should

841
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,639
just be taken for granted and assume that it's going

842
00:38:42,679 --> 00:38:44,840
to occur. But if I had to bet, at the

843
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:46,880
very least, I think we're getting Darris going back to

844
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,119
who he was in twenty two to twenty three. I'm

845
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,400
still you know, I'm emotionally and this is probably you know,

846
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,079
me being an optimist, but I think we're still going

847
00:38:58,119 --> 00:38:59,639
to see that step forward in the leap that we

848
00:38:59,639 --> 00:39:00,960
should have seen last season.

849
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: What is because I assume that he texted you on

850
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,079
the regular what's going on with Isco Coro?

851
00:39:09,639 --> 00:39:12,679
Speaker 3: So I think that's a you know, it's a complicated

852
00:39:12,679 --> 00:39:16,159
situation because you alluded to it before, where you know,

853
00:39:16,559 --> 00:39:18,960
kind of the middle class under this new CBA is

854
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,559
just getting squeezed. And I think from the cast perspective,

855
00:39:21,559 --> 00:39:23,840
they don't want to enter the luxury tax until next

856
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,400
season because you know that.

857
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,679
Speaker 2: The repeater is tough. You saw. I think Bomber letting

858
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:31,880
Paul George walk.

859
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 3: For nothing is a bit of like a signal to

860
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,280
fans that hey, things are going to be a little

861
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,280
bit different under this and we have to, you know,

862
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:43,039
kind of take this into consideration. The reporting out there,

863
00:39:43,039 --> 00:39:46,679
I think from what the Cavs are reportedly offering, I

864
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,480
don't know. I think to the people that aren't familiar,

865
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,119
even though we got partnership with the Caves, we do

866
00:39:51,199 --> 00:39:52,920
not do reporting. We do not talk to the team

867
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,440
about this stuff.

868
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 1: We just assume they ran moves by you to make

869
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:56,920
sure you guys are all.

870
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I wish they did. You know, Isaaca

871
00:39:59,599 --> 00:40:01,679
Coral your podcast.

872
00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 1: If we gave Isaaca Coro thirteen million.

873
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,559
Speaker 3: Dollars, he'd be on a lifetime contract at this point

874
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,000
if they consulted the podcast. Now, I do think, you know,

875
00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,800
that mid level range, I think would would be fair

876
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:16,400
for Cora.

877
00:40:16,519 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 2: But you know, it.

878
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,599
Speaker 3: Becomes difficult to fill out their roster. And I wouldn't

879
00:40:20,599 --> 00:40:24,079
be surprised if they're you know, just listening to some

880
00:40:24,159 --> 00:40:26,039
reporting from Chris Fiedoor and other people on the beat,

881
00:40:26,119 --> 00:40:28,679
like they're still exploring options, right, Like they're still looking

882
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,760
at you know, potential Karroslavert moves, right and if you

883
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,239
can find one of those deals that shed some salary,

884
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:36,519
maybe it makes them more feasible to sign a coorl

885
00:40:36,559 --> 00:40:38,440
to extension that works for both sides.

886
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:40,280
Speaker 2: You know, I.

887
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 3: I do think, you know, it wouldn't surprise me if

888
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:47,679
they're out there shopping him as well, right like even

889
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,360
in you know, in combined with Karas laverta to see

890
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,280
what's out there. You know, when when I hear the

891
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,559
name of Cam Johnson, like I'm not for it for

892
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,239
Jared Allen, but if you're talking about that kind of package,

893
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,320
I can see, you know, balancing the roster out that

894
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,119
way and finding a way to add some length and

895
00:41:06,199 --> 00:41:09,760
from some versatility could be attractive. So I think he's

896
00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:11,840
in a little bit of a roster crunch. They used

897
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,159
the first round pick on a guy that's going to

898
00:41:14,159 --> 00:41:17,199
be playing a very similar position as well. There's depth

899
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,519
at the shooting guard position with sam Merril Ti Jerome

900
00:41:20,599 --> 00:41:23,599
is probably going to play some minutes there, so you know,

901
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:25,880
it's it's a bit of a leverage game, and I

902
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,000
think a lot of players kind of in his position

903
00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:31,519
are facing that when it comes to negotiations with teams.

904
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:34,039
Speaker 1: I was excuse me, I will say, I can already

905
00:41:34,039 --> 00:41:36,320
see myself pulling my hair out. If Cam Johnson is

906
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,159
playing next to Evan Moble and Jared Allen and the

907
00:41:38,199 --> 00:41:44,320
Cavs have a below average defensive rebounding rate in those minutes, That's.

908
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,679
Speaker 2: That's why we got Jalen Tyson. Baby, don't don't you worry.

909
00:41:47,119 --> 00:41:47,559
He's here.

910
00:41:47,599 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 3: He's here to fill those rebounding gaps. Getting his triple

911
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,480
doubles in Summer League or or damn close to it.

912
00:41:52,559 --> 00:41:54,880
He he came one to us as short, but everyone

913
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:58,079
was missing those shots on the tenth one. But I'm I'm,

914
00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:00,280
I'm all aboard the Jalen Tyson the express here.

915
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: So I guess, just based off you read on it,

916
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,880
they're like ten point seven below the tax right now

917
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,320
is what I have them at. So if I sycle

918
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,719
Cored's going to get more than that, it's probably as

919
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:10,320
part of a sign and trade where he's eltwhere there's

920
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:12,239
like another move that the Cavs are making, because I.

921
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 3: Don't think he's going to get signed in trade this summer,

922
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,440
like I think, you know, I think the Q qualifying

923
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:21,960
offer is possible. I you know, I think an extension

924
00:42:22,119 --> 00:42:24,239
is certainly possible. I don't know if that ten point

925
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:25,960
seven includes some sort of icycle.

926
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,280
Speaker 2: Coral cap hold. I haven't dove into the finances a

927
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:31,159
little bit, but I.

928
00:42:31,159 --> 00:42:33,320
Speaker 1: Don't think it does. But I'll have to double check that.

929
00:42:34,039 --> 00:42:36,039
I would say, though the qualifying offer might not be

930
00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:38,800
a great scenario for them because it nukes his trade

931
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,920
value since his bird rights won't transfer.

932
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 3: Right And I think it's eleven million as well, if

933
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:46,639
I'm not mistaken. So you know, it's like you know,

934
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:49,679
we're right back into that scenario. So you know, I

935
00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:52,840
expect a resolution at some point because something does have

936
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,559
to happen. But yeah, it wouldn't surprise me to see,

937
00:42:56,599 --> 00:42:58,719
you know, a move to free up some space or

938
00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:02,559
a move to you know, go over for a player

939
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:04,719
that they feel is a little more worthwhile. Like I

940
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,599
think that that is certainly possible. But as much as

941
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:11,239
he took a step forward last year in the regular season,

942
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,440
and you know, I don't think they win Game seven

943
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,679
against Orlando without Ocoro, I think, you know, Game two

944
00:43:17,119 --> 00:43:19,119
stands out as well as a game where he had

945
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:21,159
a very impactful stretch in that series.

946
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 2: You know, the.

947
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 3: Hesitancy to take shots in the playoffs just really has

948
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,920
cost him. I think he's a player that would benefit

949
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,679
from a more structured offense, a movement offense like Kenny

950
00:43:30,719 --> 00:43:33,960
Atkinson plays, you know, just a better understanding what he

951
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:35,960
should be doing out there on the court, because he

952
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,079
does have really good instincts. Like I thought, he had

953
00:43:38,119 --> 00:43:40,519
a really really great regular season and I think he's

954
00:43:40,559 --> 00:43:42,760
one of the best on ball defenders in the league.

955
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:46,039
And usually you know, elite on ball defenders that shoot

956
00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:48,840
thirty nine percent from three on over three attempts per game,

957
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,920
Like there's usually a spot for those teams but or

958
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:52,880
those type of players.

959
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: But unfortunately for.

960
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,519
Speaker 3: Him, like spacing and shooting is just at such a

961
00:43:57,519 --> 00:44:00,000
premium with the Cavs that I think it becomes more

962
00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:02,599
of a conversation. Whereas if he played for like the

963
00:44:02,639 --> 00:44:05,079
Indiana Pacers, I think, like you can play him in

964
00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:08,360
the playoffs even if he's not taking threes incredibly easily

965
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,800
because they play up tempo and you know you need

966
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,119
that point of attack defense. You saw what TJ McConnell

967
00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:15,280
just got from them like that of course is a

968
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,159
much better defender and shooter than TJ McConnell. Like I

969
00:44:18,159 --> 00:44:20,000
think it would be a really seamless fit. But when

970
00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:22,599
you're out there with Evan Mobley and Jared Allen, like

971
00:44:23,199 --> 00:44:23,760
a lot.

972
00:44:23,679 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: Is expected from YouTube to make up for that shooting

973
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,000
deficit at those two positions.

974
00:44:28,199 --> 00:44:31,119
Speaker 1: And it's also a situation with him where because of

975
00:44:31,159 --> 00:44:34,079
who's already on the calves that you can't really expand

976
00:44:34,119 --> 00:44:36,000
his role on the ball, and like even the stuff

977
00:44:36,039 --> 00:44:37,800
he might be able to move away off the ball,

978
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,760
your already menacing, like that's just they might they don't

979
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,440
have a space to do that the way Indiana would,

980
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,960
and so it makes it an interesting So I'm very

981
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,559
curious to see how this ends. Like I'm assuming, I'm

982
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:49,440
if you had a guess, he's probably just back with

983
00:44:49,519 --> 00:44:51,079
the team for next season, would.

984
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,599
Speaker 3: Be your Yeah, yeah, I think he'll be on the

985
00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:55,639
roster opening if I had to guess.

986
00:44:57,119 --> 00:44:58,679
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if we can go through some of the

987
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:01,039
other players on the tw roster and just get your

988
00:45:01,079 --> 00:45:03,559
impressions on what they did last season and what you

989
00:45:03,599 --> 00:45:07,400
expect their role to be moving forward. Let's begin with

990
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,599
was a new edition this year. Now he's a Calves.

991
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:10,719
Now he's a CALVS vet.

992
00:45:11,079 --> 00:45:15,840
Speaker 3: Max Truce Cav's a legend. Hit it right, Yeah, Max,

993
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,039
I think had the best season of his career. Another

994
00:45:18,079 --> 00:45:21,239
guy that took a playmaking leap last season. You know,

995
00:45:21,559 --> 00:45:25,039
I think Max and a lot of those guys that

996
00:45:25,119 --> 00:45:28,079
played in that stretch without Mobiley and Garland, I think

997
00:45:28,119 --> 00:45:30,760
one of the things that wasn't discussed enough was, you know,

998
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,960
we talked about how it was a light schedule. They

999
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,880
actually had a lot of time off during that stretch

1000
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,360
as well, because they had that Paris trip that you know,

1001
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,159
gave them basically a week off and an All Star

1002
00:45:41,199 --> 00:45:43,400
break in the middle of the season. But despite that,

1003
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,920
the increased load that all of those guys played, like

1004
00:45:46,159 --> 00:45:48,280
that took a number, Like that didn't number on all

1005
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,239
of them. Like Donovan's knee kind of went to crap

1006
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:52,400
and he was shut down after the All Star break.

1007
00:45:53,079 --> 00:45:56,639
Dean Wade's knee went to crap, got shut down. Max

1008
00:45:56,679 --> 00:45:58,559
Struce's knee they had to shut him down after the

1009
00:45:58,639 --> 00:46:02,360
All Star break. Karris Lavert had the same issue as well,

1010
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:05,840
like the physical burden of like just carrying the team

1011
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,760
against a bunch of below five hundred teams with Garland

1012
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,119
and Mobile like that.

1013
00:46:10,039 --> 00:46:11,519
Speaker 2: Cost all of those guys physically.

1014
00:46:11,559 --> 00:46:15,639
Speaker 3: So I think Max, you know, I probably won't need

1015
00:46:15,679 --> 00:46:17,840
to be counted on as much as he was last season.

1016
00:46:18,079 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 2: Ended up needing to play a lot of point guard

1017
00:46:20,079 --> 00:46:20,599
for the Cavs.

1018
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, the playmaking from him was just incredible.

1019
00:46:24,119 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 3: But like his efficiency in those games was way down

1020
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:29,719
because you know, he's, you know, playing such a heavy

1021
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,280
on ball role. He was like forcing shots at the rim,

1022
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,760
but they just like really needed someone to take an

1023
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:37,679
attempt at some point. Like I just think that he's

1024
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:41,599
going to be in a role that's much more aligned

1025
00:46:41,639 --> 00:46:44,840
to like what we thought we were getting when when

1026
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,320
we signed Maxtrus. I loved everything that he added to

1027
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:50,079
his game. I loved the season that he had. He

1028
00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:52,719
was like the on off god for the Cavs. But

1029
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,239
I think, you know, a funny stat to look at

1030
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,079
is when you look at the games that he played

1031
00:46:57,119 --> 00:46:59,760
with Darius Garland last year, he shot forty five percent

1032
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,159
from the floor in thirty nine percent from three. In

1033
00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:04,480
the games he played without Garland, he shot thirty seven

1034
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,079
percent from the floor in twenty nine percent from three. Like,

1035
00:47:07,159 --> 00:47:09,920
that's a ten percent difference in three point percentage and

1036
00:47:10,079 --> 00:47:13,000
a massive gap in field goal percentage. And I think

1037
00:47:13,519 --> 00:47:15,920
some of that is, you know, how much easier Darius

1038
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,639
makes life for everybody else and just you know, having

1039
00:47:18,639 --> 00:47:20,639
a point card to act him on the roster. And

1040
00:47:20,679 --> 00:47:22,440
I think some of that is how much he was

1041
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,519
asked to do in those games, and I think that

1042
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:26,480
had a toll on his efficiency, and I think that

1043
00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:27,880
had a toll on him physically.

1044
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,119
Speaker 2: So I'm excited for another year, Max.

1045
00:47:30,679 --> 00:47:32,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think even just the I mean, you broke

1046
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,400
it down there, Arius Garland, but he only played six

1047
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,599
hundred and twenty minutes with Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell

1048
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,360
on the floor, and in those minutes he shot thirty

1049
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,639
eight point nine percent from three and fifty seven point

1050
00:47:42,639 --> 00:47:44,639
one percent on TUESA. And so I would guess that

1051
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,440
if the Cavs are relatively healthy, he's going to have

1052
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,800
an incredibly efficienciason. One that's probably closer to was that

1053
00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:52,840
now three years ago in Miami, or was twenty one

1054
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,920
twenty two where he shot forty one percent from three

1055
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,320
and like fifty six percent from two. So that would

1056
00:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,440
be my guess for him. Up, I thought someone who

1057
00:48:00,519 --> 00:48:03,440
had has had it's not even just quietly had a

1058
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,400
good season in Cleveland, but has having quietly like a

1059
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,599
good couple of seasons in Cleveland, mister Carris the Vert.

1060
00:48:08,519 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1061
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, And if I had to guess, I think this

1062
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:15,320
is Carris's last year with the Calvs. I think they

1063
00:48:15,519 --> 00:48:19,320
drafted his kind of successor in Jalen Tyson. Some of

1064
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,960
them that you know is able to provide playmaking, is

1065
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,079
able to provide shooting, is able to provide defense and

1066
00:48:24,119 --> 00:48:27,159
rebounding and all that kind of stuff. I'm very high

1067
00:48:27,199 --> 00:48:30,119
on Jalen Tyson, but I've I've been impressed with what.

1068
00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 2: Carris has done.

1069
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:35,239
Speaker 3: I think people get frustrated with him because the efficiency

1070
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,480
kind of is a roller coaster where he goes through

1071
00:48:37,639 --> 00:48:40,400
very high highs and very low lows when it comes

1072
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,280
to his shot making. But the playmaking has been really important,

1073
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,440
especially when you talk about navigating the injuries that they've had.

1074
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,039
It's been really really important that he is such a

1075
00:48:50,039 --> 00:48:52,280
good pick and roll ball handler that's able to make

1076
00:48:52,719 --> 00:48:54,800
a life easier for the bigs and generate some of

1077
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,880
those shots in take and make some tough shots at times.

1078
00:48:58,159 --> 00:49:00,960
And his defense man like that, that's been the biggest

1079
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,039
thing in his time in Cleveland. Like the defense he

1080
00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:06,760
played in Brooklyn and Indiana like pales in comparison to

1081
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,159
what he's done as a cavalier.

1082
00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:11,519
Speaker 1: And he's really with Spider too when you look at

1083
00:49:11,559 --> 00:49:13,639
what he did in Utah versus what he's done in Cleveland.

1084
00:49:14,039 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, Max had some rough defensive metrics

1085
00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:19,719
in Miami. I think some of that was he had

1086
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,840
to play a lot of power forward at six five.

1087
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,639
You know, people ripe about him playing small forward, but

1088
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,880
he was playing a lot of for in Miami. But

1089
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:31,639
I do think you know, they've managed to get the

1090
00:49:31,639 --> 00:49:34,760
best out of all of these guys kind of individually defensively,

1091
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:37,920
you know, Darius didn't have a strong defensive reputation, but

1092
00:49:38,199 --> 00:49:40,519
the metrics have really kind of, you know, shot up

1093
00:49:40,519 --> 00:49:43,280
across the board for him. You know, when when you

1094
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,559
look at defensive EPM, he's been well above average last

1095
00:49:46,559 --> 00:49:50,360
couple of years. Max has improved, Donovan's improved, Caris has improved.

1096
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,239
So you know, I think that's one of those things

1097
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:54,280
that you have to give credit to the past coaching

1098
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:55,880
staff and it's going to be interesting to see if

1099
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,280
that translates to this new one under Kenny Atkinson. Not

1100
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:03,239
that he hasn't you know, had a defensive reputation of himself.

1101
00:50:03,559 --> 00:50:06,840
I know in talking to the light Years boy, Sam

1102
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,480
and Andy, they talked about how from what they've heard,

1103
00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:12,559
he played a major role in the Warriors defense in

1104
00:50:12,599 --> 00:50:16,320
the championship year and his influence had a big difference.

1105
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:17,679
Speaker 2: So hopefully it continues.

1106
00:50:17,679 --> 00:50:19,559
Speaker 3: But you know, that's one of those things where you

1107
00:50:19,679 --> 00:50:23,719
got to give a you know, give credit to the

1108
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:24,599
old coaching staff.

1109
00:50:24,639 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: For sure.

1110
00:50:26,679 --> 00:50:28,840
Speaker 1: Dean Wade looked like he was back for a minute,

1111
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:30,239
and I guess in a sense he was back because

1112
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,079
he got injured again, right angle, right knee stuff. Really,

1113
00:50:33,119 --> 00:50:36,719
but what's up? You were I think approaching this upcoming

1114
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,400
year from him last last time we did this with

1115
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:42,400
like a measured dose of skepticism. Where are you sort

1116
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,519
of at with him now? Because it seems like healthy

1117
00:50:45,559 --> 00:50:47,320
Dean Wade is pretty much exactly what this.

1118
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:52,760
Speaker 2: He tis me that's the problem, man, Like, well, it's

1119
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,519
been too many years. It's been too many years.

1120
00:50:55,159 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 3: That we are sitting and earnestly talking at the end

1121
00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,360
of the season being like, well, you know, if Dean

1122
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:00,159
Wade was healthy.

1123
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,159
Speaker 2: Like it's a true thing.

1124
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:05,639
Speaker 3: He is a really impactful player, someone that you know,

1125
00:51:06,119 --> 00:51:09,159
really helps from a rebounding standpoint. He protects the rim well,

1126
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,039
he shoots well, he can defend three through five. He's

1127
00:51:12,039 --> 00:51:13,960
someone that you can throw on a Jason Tatum. He's

1128
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,280
done a great job on Tatum historically and and other

1129
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:18,480
longer wings like that.

1130
00:51:19,679 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 2: It's just, you know, he can't stay healthy.

1131
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:25,280
Speaker 3: And you know it's been at the end of the year,

1132
00:51:25,639 --> 00:51:27,239
whether it was you know, the play in or the

1133
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:29,239
last two years in the playoffs, like he just hasn't

1134
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:34,599
been available or hasn't been himself at that time of year, healthy,

1135
00:51:34,639 --> 00:51:37,760
Dean Wade really matters. You know, when you look at

1136
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,320
the current roster construction where they don't currently have a

1137
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,400
backup center, Dean wait's really going to matter. He might

1138
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:45,840
need to play some backup five. I expect them to

1139
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,480
bring in a center before camp. But you know, as

1140
00:51:48,519 --> 00:51:51,360
it currently stands, he is still a very important part

1141
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,159
of this equation. I don't know if he's at one

1142
00:51:54,199 --> 00:51:56,920
hundred percent health yet. I know, when you know, media

1143
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,039
day came around last year, he said, you know his

1144
00:51:59,119 --> 00:52:01,639
shoulder was that it about eighty five percent. But he

1145
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,719
was very effective to start the year, and you know

1146
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,719
he did have a very good stretch before the knee

1147
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,000
issues came up. So I hope he can stay healthy.

1148
00:52:09,039 --> 00:52:11,559
I think, you know, he's been a very valuable part

1149
00:52:11,559 --> 00:52:15,239
of this. But you know, somewhere it would be nice

1150
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,679
to fuse both like him and George Niang together and

1151
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,159
just get you know, someone that that's available all the time,

1152
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,920
that that is a consistent shooter, that that has you know,

1153
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,320
no fear firing way, that can defend, that can rebound.

1154
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:30,360
Like this is why when we came to last offseason,

1155
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,000
I so badly wanted nas Reed and I so badly

1156
00:52:34,039 --> 00:52:36,800
wanted PJ. Washington for the Cavs because I wanted that

1157
00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,000
player that kind of brings both of those traits to

1158
00:52:40,039 --> 00:52:43,559
the table, someone that is perfect a stagger for with

1159
00:52:43,599 --> 00:52:46,480
either Mobili or Alan and also lets you get to

1160
00:52:46,639 --> 00:52:50,119
test drive what it looks like, you know, a potential

1161
00:52:50,159 --> 00:52:52,480
post Jared Allen world where you kind of have a

1162
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,719
stretchboard that's able to provide rim protection and play defense

1163
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:58,599
at the five. Like I think if you ever had

1164
00:52:58,639 --> 00:53:02,119
Mobili as kind of the primary starting center, you'd need

1165
00:53:02,159 --> 00:53:04,599
a rim protecting four like a nas Read because that

1166
00:53:04,639 --> 00:53:07,639
allows Mobley to still play free safety and doesn't kind

1167
00:53:07,679 --> 00:53:09,880
of reduce him to the Rudy Gobert role on the

1168
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,000
defensive end.

1169
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 2: Uh.

1170
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:15,199
Speaker 1: One of my favorite players from this team last season,

1171
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,679
mister Sam Merril. Papa shot God. I'm assuming, but Papa

1172
00:53:19,679 --> 00:53:20,239
Shot God.

1173
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,519
Speaker 2: Apparently a very good golfer. I was listening to a

1174
00:53:23,559 --> 00:53:27,840
podcast unlocked on CAS shout out Danny Cunningham. Merrill apparently

1175
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,599
has a three handicap, which is a little bit braggy, Bud.

1176
00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:31,599
He's a great golfer.

1177
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:34,519
Speaker 3: I don't know how much of a role he's going

1178
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:36,880
to have just because of you know, he plays at

1179
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,840
one of the deepest positions for the Cavs. That the

1180
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,320
guard depth is wild on this team. I do think

1181
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:45,639
that Tyjerome is going to to give him run for

1182
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,880
his money when it comes to minutes as well. But

1183
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,000
I could definitely see him being that kind of spark

1184
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,079
plug that comes in and gives them some juice offensively

1185
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,760
in kind of that tenth or eleventh man role.

1186
00:53:58,159 --> 00:54:01,239
Speaker 1: So Todd, you expect tidj your own to play like

1187
00:54:01,280 --> 00:54:03,199
a fairly big role then for this, if you're gonna

1188
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:05,199
run out the rotation, what are just your impressions of

1189
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:06,960
him then? Like he's got nice size. I think I

1190
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,079
don't think people understand that Tydrome is like pretty big.

1191
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:12,199
Speaker 2: For he's six y five. He's six five, He doesn't

1192
00:54:12,199 --> 00:54:14,280
turn the ball over, he shoots well from three, He's

1193
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,920
a good defender. He would have been the perfect guard

1194
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:22,199
for staggering Donovan and Darius. Unfortunately, he rolled his ankle

1195
00:54:22,199 --> 00:54:24,039
in the second game of the season and was done

1196
00:54:24,039 --> 00:54:27,039
for the year. Like it's it's wild man.

1197
00:54:27,159 --> 00:54:30,320
Speaker 3: Like we talked at media day, we talked to Max

1198
00:54:30,320 --> 00:54:32,519
Strus and we were saying, you know, when you're in Miami,

1199
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,639
you're playing a lot of minutes without a point guard,

1200
00:54:34,639 --> 00:54:36,199
you have to play a lot of minutes of power

1201
00:54:36,199 --> 00:54:38,159
forward because of injuries. Like it was just, you know,

1202
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,440
a very very weird season where you're out of context.

1203
00:54:41,599 --> 00:54:43,400
How good is it going to be to play for

1204
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,280
Cleveland where you're going to have a point guard on

1205
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,719
the floor at all times? There's great depth, There's Garland,

1206
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:51,199
there's Jerome, there's Rubio, right, like, uh, we we just

1207
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:52,960
you know, we felt so good about it, and then

1208
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,679
by game two we hit we're down our first, second,

1209
00:54:55,679 --> 00:54:59,320
and third string point guards. Like that's that's ridiculous, that

1210
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,960
absolutely ridiculous. And of course he was playing power forward.

1211
00:55:02,239 --> 00:55:05,320
I do expect Ti Jerome to have a role obviously.

1212
00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:08,199
You know, he played under Kenny Atkinson and Golden State,

1213
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:10,760
so I think they have a relationship there. He's good

1214
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:12,559
friends with Donovan Mitchell. I think he's the type of

1215
00:55:12,639 --> 00:55:14,800
role player that would have been a great fit for

1216
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:17,119
them last year. But just one of those kind of

1217
00:55:17,159 --> 00:55:20,119
unfortunate injuries. And I think, you know, in an offseason

1218
00:55:20,159 --> 00:55:22,960
where they didn't make any additions outside of Jalen Tyson

1219
00:55:23,199 --> 00:55:25,400
and you know JT thor on a two way and

1220
00:55:25,519 --> 00:55:28,920
Luke Travers on a two way. I do think ty

1221
00:55:29,039 --> 00:55:30,920
Jerome is probably going to be one of those kind

1222
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:33,719
of sneaky I don't even want to call him an addition,

1223
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,400
but he is an addition that people aren't factoring in.

1224
00:55:37,679 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I'm I'm curious to see just because he

1225
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,000
has a nice size, he's you know, been twenty two

1226
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:43,719
to twenty three. He shot the ball pretty well, even

1227
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,159
on some pull ups, and so that's just like a

1228
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,400
very interesting player for what this team could need. A

1229
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:50,599
fun player from the season who I just don't know

1230
00:55:50,679 --> 00:55:52,360
how they would ever carve out a role for moving

1231
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,039
forward outside of injury. Craig Porter Junior thinking of him,

1232
00:55:55,079 --> 00:55:57,639
he's like a very odiosyncratic player when you consider the

1233
00:55:57,679 --> 00:55:59,239
position that he plays.

1234
00:55:59,559 --> 00:56:02,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm a massive Greig Porter Junior fan. I

1235
00:56:02,559 --> 00:56:03,960
really like what he brings to the table.

1236
00:56:04,519 --> 00:56:06,679
Speaker 3: You know, sneaky old like he is the same age

1237
00:56:06,679 --> 00:56:10,880
as Darius, but you know, a good undrafted fine for

1238
00:56:10,920 --> 00:56:13,320
the Cavs, who have had a lot of success with

1239
00:56:13,679 --> 00:56:17,199
undrafted players like Dean Wade, like Lamar Stevens, you know,

1240
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,760
brought up. You know, I shouldn't even say brought up

1241
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:22,599
through the league because he didn't really get the opportunity

1242
00:56:22,599 --> 00:56:24,960
to play in the G League with the injuries, I

1243
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,920
definitely am happy that he's on the roster as a

1244
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:32,079
break glass in case of emergency guard. You know, talked

1245
00:56:32,079 --> 00:56:33,960
about how Darius and gone in this time and Ti

1246
00:56:34,039 --> 00:56:35,920
Jeromes missed a lot of time in his career. I

1247
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:38,000
think there is going to be a time where Craig

1248
00:56:38,039 --> 00:56:41,519
Porter Jr. Is going to be important for this team. Unfortunately,

1249
00:56:41,639 --> 00:56:43,760
another guy that got hurt right before the playoffs, so

1250
00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:47,559
we didn't have the luxury of playing him, so he.

1251
00:56:47,519 --> 00:56:50,519
Speaker 2: Joined that very very long list for Cleveland.

1252
00:56:50,519 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 3: But I definitely think that there's going to be a

1253
00:56:53,519 --> 00:56:57,719
time where where Craig Porter Junior's presence on the roster manners.

1254
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:06,519
Speaker 1: Where are you at with GEORGEI Yang? Later after adding him.

1255
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 3: Like less of namor than it was kind of coming in.

1256
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,880
Carter was the bigger George Niang guy the two of us.

1257
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,199
I mean, I George the person. I love, I love

1258
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,199
him in interviews, I love him on podcasts.

1259
00:57:14,519 --> 00:57:16,679
Speaker 1: I love my nickname as well for sure.

1260
00:57:17,039 --> 00:57:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1261
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 3: Well, he had a great nickname with you know, the

1262
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,840
Mini van, and then they bestowed the nickname g Wagon

1263
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:27,960
on him as well, which which I Love. You know,

1264
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:30,920
I expect him to have a better season than he

1265
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,360
did last year. He sneakily had a great post All

1266
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,079
Star Break stretch for the Cavs. Just everything was going wrong,

1267
00:57:38,119 --> 00:57:41,159
so it kind of fell onto the radar. I expected

1268
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:44,239
him to bounce back and be productive, but you know,

1269
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,639
there's the obvious limitations with him right where he's just

1270
00:57:47,639 --> 00:57:49,840
not going to be able to defend in space to

1271
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,280
the level that you know what Dean Wade would be.

1272
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:54,880
When you're looking at guys competing for minutes at that position,

1273
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:58,440
and you know there's the possibility that if they do

1274
00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:01,880
downsize and play some small maybe you know, Jalen Tyson's

1275
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,199
getting minutes there or Max Strus gets some more minutes

1276
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:07,599
a power forward like he did last season. So I

1277
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,760
do think he's someone that's really going to help them

1278
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:13,559
over an eighty two game season. But when it comes

1279
00:58:13,559 --> 00:58:16,679
to the playoff kind of rotation and whatnot, I think

1280
00:58:17,039 --> 00:58:19,559
there was a lot of issues with him against the Magic.

1281
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,280
A lot of their minutes that went very poorly involved

1282
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:26,239
George Nyeing getting targeted, particularly by Polo bank Carrol. I

1283
00:58:26,239 --> 00:58:28,440
think some of that was a product of, you know,

1284
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:29,400
Jared Allen.

1285
00:58:29,159 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 2: Being out with the broken rib and whatnot. So I

1286
00:58:33,519 --> 00:58:38,159
do think, you know, it's not someone that I'm counting

1287
00:58:38,199 --> 00:58:40,119
on when it comes to the postseason just yet.

1288
00:58:40,480 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of another guy you can't count on

1289
00:58:42,920 --> 00:58:46,000
to rebound it a consistent clip for you either, which

1290
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,199
is something this team definitely needs as a secondary front

1291
00:58:48,199 --> 00:58:51,880
line present. Sounds like you're pretty high on Jalen's license.

1292
00:58:52,119 --> 00:58:53,760
You what are your early impressions of him? He has

1293
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,119
this is that was the thing I heard coming into

1294
00:58:56,159 --> 00:58:58,039
the draft where he's ever around the Cavs was people

1295
00:58:58,119 --> 00:59:00,639
kept analoging him to Karroslvert a lot of the time.

1296
00:59:00,679 --> 00:59:02,679
And now that's obviously picked up even more steam because

1297
00:59:02,679 --> 00:59:04,480
he's on Carousel Birds team.

1298
00:59:04,800 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 3: He is Hobe Hawks with a three ball. That's my

1299
00:59:08,039 --> 00:59:13,800
favorite comp. You know, real modest expectations. I will say

1300
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,360
these year younger than Hawks coming out of college. He

1301
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,599
was better in college than Hawk has. He has shot

1302
00:59:18,639 --> 00:59:21,400
better than three from three than Hawk has. I just

1303
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:23,800
really like the comp because I think they win in

1304
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,119
similar ways where they don't blow people away with their

1305
00:59:26,159 --> 00:59:27,599
ability to.

1306
00:59:27,159 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 2: Blow by people.

1307
00:59:28,519 --> 00:59:31,280
Speaker 3: Hawks is a very good vertical athlete, but you know

1308
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,440
that the first step isn't how he wins. He's kind

1309
00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:36,599
of got that crafty game where he really uses his

1310
00:59:36,599 --> 00:59:39,519
strength to get to the rim and finish well and

1311
00:59:39,519 --> 00:59:42,079
get to his spots. Jalen Tyson plays in the same

1312
00:59:42,199 --> 00:59:46,000
kind of way. I love his ability to fill up

1313
00:59:46,039 --> 00:59:46,760
a box.

1314
00:59:46,599 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 2: Or with rebounds blocks.

1315
00:59:49,519 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 3: You know, he blocked a three in Summer League, which

1316
00:59:52,559 --> 00:59:55,320
just surprised the hell out of me. But you know,

1317
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,320
he's just kind of got that timing and he's got

1318
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,320
that knack for winning. And what I really like about

1319
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:05,079
him is you look at his college career and prior

1320
01:00:05,519 --> 01:00:08,280
to his last season, he was a very good role guy,

1321
01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:10,920
right Like, he shot the spot up threes at an

1322
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:14,239
elite rate. You know, the defense was there, all the

1323
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:16,639
kind of metrics that you wanted to see from a

1324
01:00:16,679 --> 01:00:20,039
three and d wing were present. Then the last season,

1325
01:00:20,079 --> 01:00:22,639
like he was basically the straw that stress the drink,

1326
01:00:22,719 --> 01:00:25,079
right Like, he was doing absolutely everything. He had Luca

1327
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:29,199
levels of usage on offense, was shooting the ball really well,

1328
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:32,679
but the defense slipped a little bit. And you know,

1329
01:00:32,719 --> 01:00:34,920
he still shot well from three, but not as well.

1330
01:00:35,239 --> 01:00:39,280
I'm really interested to see Okay in a more defined

1331
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:41,880
role where you're playing off of good creators and whatnot,

1332
01:00:42,039 --> 01:00:44,760
Like is he able to kind of take that step forward,

1333
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:47,280
and like, this is the type of guy that if

1334
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,960
he hits it really moves the needle for Cleveland right

1335
01:00:51,039 --> 01:00:53,519
Like we've seen it time and time again with these

1336
01:00:53,519 --> 01:00:56,360
playoff teams where you know, whether it's a Christian Brawn

1337
01:00:56,440 --> 01:01:00,639
or you know, Hami hawkas like these guys that come

1338
01:01:00,679 --> 01:01:03,119
in that spent a little bit more time in college

1339
01:01:03,599 --> 01:01:05,400
that are ready to contribute right away.

1340
01:01:05,519 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 2: Maybe they're brought along slowly, but once.

1341
01:01:07,639 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 3: They hit it just completely kind of changes the complexion

1342
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:14,559
of these teams and drafting a wing that does project

1343
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:16,400
to be a three and D wing that can create,

1344
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:18,679
that can do a variety of things that you know,

1345
01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,119
is the exact same height as a Jalen Brown, Like

1346
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:23,960
that is what the Cavs need. And it's really hard

1347
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,360
to find those type of players and they don't become

1348
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,119
available once they hit the trade market. So I'm very

1349
01:01:29,199 --> 01:01:31,719
very high on on Tyson and Wood he can bring

1350
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:33,719
to the team. I just don't think that that role

1351
01:01:33,800 --> 01:01:35,320
is going to be there at the start of the season.

1352
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm curious, and you've already mentioned this, just how

1353
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,639
he ends up faring away from the ball if he's

1354
01:01:40,639 --> 01:01:43,000
going to get minutes from this team. But is there

1355
01:01:43,039 --> 01:01:45,239
a chance. I do think we tend sometimes tend to

1356
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:47,840
overromanticize what rookies can do for really good teams. But

1357
01:01:48,119 --> 01:01:50,840
you mentioned the Nuggets, Christian Brown contributed to them winning

1358
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:53,079
a title when he was a rookie. When you look

1359
01:01:53,119 --> 01:01:54,679
at sort of the way the front line is set

1360
01:01:54,719 --> 01:01:56,639
up right now, where Dean Wade always seems like he's

1361
01:01:56,639 --> 01:01:59,639
dealing with something, there's the uncertainty like not to put

1362
01:01:59,719 --> 01:02:01,440
him in the front line, like just the uncertainty with

1363
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,880
Azgacorro right now, his contract situation, maybe just his role

1364
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,039
moving forward, and then on top of that, maybe not

1365
01:02:07,079 --> 01:02:09,800
being in love with the George Niang minutes. Is there

1366
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,360
a pathway even if it's like kind of post trade

1367
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:14,480
deadline or something and they've just exhausted all their other

1368
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,000
options and haven't found the solution that he plays a

1369
01:02:17,079 --> 01:02:19,440
role for this team as like a like a meaningful

1370
01:02:19,519 --> 01:02:21,360
role for this not not necessarily on the floor and

1371
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:23,119
crunch time, but it's part of like a core part

1372
01:02:23,159 --> 01:02:25,760
of their maybe tertiary or secondary lineups.

1373
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 2: I think it's certainly possible.

1374
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,920
Speaker 3: I think he is someone that maybe gives them some

1375
01:02:30,280 --> 01:02:34,079
flexibility to pursue a deal like that, Like you know,

1376
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:37,880
talk about how they're you know, shallow at the four

1377
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,280
or five where you know you got some backup options

1378
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:41,880
at the four, but none of them are really like

1379
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:43,679
kind of a true four or five where they can

1380
01:02:43,719 --> 01:02:46,280
actually slide over and play the center. Like if an

1381
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:49,079
opportunity comes along to get like in Isaiah Stewart or

1382
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:54,480
Larry Nance Junior and move on from Karaslovert, like that

1383
01:02:54,599 --> 01:02:56,599
might be something that they consider if they really like

1384
01:02:56,639 --> 01:02:59,239
what they're seeing in practice from Jalen Tyson, right, Like

1385
01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:03,480
if you can kind of stitch together the Krislovert role

1386
01:03:03,519 --> 01:03:07,320
with Tyson, Jerome Sam Merrill and maybe you know a

1387
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:10,159
little bit more responsibility for Isaac okorl if you feel

1388
01:03:10,159 --> 01:03:12,800
confident about your ability to do that, then you can

1389
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:15,320
make kind of one of those smaller consolidation trades to

1390
01:03:15,559 --> 01:03:17,960
go address your need to get a big wing or

1391
01:03:18,119 --> 01:03:19,239
to get that four or five.

1392
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:19,519
Speaker 2: Right.

1393
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 3: I definitely think that you know, if he hits, if

1394
01:03:23,320 --> 01:03:26,559
he is someone that you know appears ready and when

1395
01:03:26,800 --> 01:03:30,400
injuries inevitably hit, because they hit every team, hopefully not

1396
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:32,920
as hard as last year, but when when those injuries hit,

1397
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:35,079
like he's going to have an opportunity to prove himself

1398
01:03:35,079 --> 01:03:37,159
in the way that you know Craig Porter Junior did

1399
01:03:37,239 --> 01:03:40,880
last year. He steps up like Creig Porter Junior did

1400
01:03:41,119 --> 01:03:43,480
as a guy that had been in college for you know,

1401
01:03:43,559 --> 01:03:46,519
extended period of time. I think that that could inform

1402
01:03:46,559 --> 01:03:50,519
the decision making come trade deadline. Like, you know, you

1403
01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:52,960
don't want to like count on an eighteen year old rookie,

1404
01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,519
but this is a guy that's turning twenty two in December.

1405
01:03:56,039 --> 01:03:58,599
This is a guy that has physical maturity. This is

1406
01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:01,320
you know, someone that if he's.

1407
01:04:01,159 --> 01:04:03,760
Speaker 2: Going to be an NBA player and going to be

1408
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,079
a rotation player, you're probably going to need to see

1409
01:04:06,119 --> 01:04:08,440
it sooner rather than later because he's a little further

1410
01:04:08,480 --> 01:04:09,800
along on the development curve.

1411
01:04:11,159 --> 01:04:14,239
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter the lightning round cookie Cutter

1412
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:15,559
portion of the podcast?

1413
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:17,159
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, always ready.

1414
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,559
Speaker 1: What is this team's biggest need right now?

1415
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,239
Speaker 3: A four or five without a doubt of four or five.

1416
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:26,800
I would love a stretch power forward that is able

1417
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:29,760
to protect the rim. You know, I said Isaiah Stewart.

1418
01:04:29,800 --> 01:04:32,039
I would love Larry Ance Jr. I would love them

1419
01:04:32,639 --> 01:04:34,880
get me one of those guys. And give me some

1420
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:35,840
depth at the.

1421
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 1: Big I would say, Byron Nance Junior, feels eminently gettable.

1422
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:42,800
If the Hawks are serious about playing Jalen Johnson again

1423
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,519
at plus on Yaka Kungu, so that feels like a break.

1424
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:48,679
If they like Carris, like right now their backup point

1425
01:04:48,679 --> 01:04:51,000
guards either Dice and Daniels and or Kobe Buffkin and

1426
01:04:51,039 --> 01:04:54,440
so to have Carris Averts playmaking not the worst idea

1427
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:56,480
in the world for them there, So that would be interesting.

1428
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,039
Speaker 2: It would save the cas a lot of money as well.

1429
01:04:59,639 --> 01:05:01,559
Speaker 1: Would well, the Hawks would have to send out more

1430
01:05:01,599 --> 01:05:03,199
money because they don't want to pay a tax either.

1431
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,880
Speaker 2: That's you know, that would probably be the hang up

1432
01:05:06,079 --> 01:05:09,280
at this point. You know, there's you know, as we would.

1433
01:05:09,119 --> 01:05:11,119
Speaker 3: Want to shed salary and the Hawks do not want

1434
01:05:11,159 --> 01:05:13,800
to pay the luxury tax for whatever that team is

1435
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:14,159
going to be.

1436
01:05:14,559 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: Are you open to the idea of like acquiring someone

1437
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,079
who's more of just a four or a combo wing

1438
01:05:19,199 --> 01:05:21,159
rather than it having to be a combo big.

1439
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:22,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah for sure.

1440
01:05:22,559 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 3: Like you know, I did mention Cam Johnson before, like

1441
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:28,400
if there is an avenue there to Cam Johnson deal,

1442
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:30,679
I would be very open to that. And you know,

1443
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:34,719
just signing like a Javelle McGee to be the backup big,

1444
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:38,079
like I bring him home, I'm here for it, or

1445
01:05:38,159 --> 01:05:41,079
you know, bringing back Triston Thompson as a break glass

1446
01:05:41,079 --> 01:05:43,119
in case emergency, Big, Like, maybe you can do that,

1447
01:05:44,159 --> 01:05:46,760
you know, take advantage of whatever the best opportunity is

1448
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:49,480
out there. But ideally I would love, you know, that

1449
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:50,800
kind of stretch.

1450
01:05:50,519 --> 01:05:54,519
Speaker 1: For So let's just assume, because we'd like to be

1451
01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:58,000
optimistic here, this roster is fully healthy. What does the

1452
01:05:58,039 --> 01:06:01,679
top ten rotation look like. I think it's it feels

1453
01:06:01,679 --> 01:06:03,559
like safe. I mean, the Isaaca coor it all makes

1454
01:06:03,559 --> 01:06:05,559
this so complicated, but it feels like there might be

1455
01:06:05,599 --> 01:06:07,639
like eight or nine locks to it.

1456
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's just say assuming o' coral's back, because I

1457
01:06:12,519 --> 01:06:16,000
think that makes it easier. I think, you know, starting

1458
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:20,639
five with Struce is locked in. I think after that

1459
01:06:20,639 --> 01:06:24,679
it's Karros Lavert Isaac Ocorol. I'd assume George.

1460
01:06:24,519 --> 01:06:28,800
Speaker 2: Nianing over Dean Wade, and then nine to ten would

1461
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:32,519
be Dean Wade and Ty Jerome would be my guess.

1462
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,599
Speaker 1: Uh, That's how I had sam Merril penciled in for

1463
01:06:35,639 --> 01:06:37,519
the ten spot. But I'm just like a sam Merril

1464
01:06:37,559 --> 01:06:39,599
fanatic of I it's.

1465
01:06:39,559 --> 01:06:41,880
Speaker 2: Very possible that I'm wrong on that. It's very possible

1466
01:06:41,920 --> 01:06:42,199
I'm wrong.

1467
01:06:42,199 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 1: I mean, Kenny Atkinson teams do like to shoot threes,

1468
01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:46,920
so Sam mal might come in and just get on heaters.

1469
01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:50,719
What is this team's this will be I'm sure it'll

1470
01:06:50,719 --> 01:06:52,880
be matchup dependent, and but you do get into interesting

1471
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,000
like the two bigs of it all question, if we

1472
01:06:55,039 --> 01:06:56,400
fast forward to the end of the season, what do

1473
01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,400
you think ends up being their most used crunch time lineup.

1474
01:07:03,719 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 2: I think it's the starting five.

1475
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:09,559
Speaker 3: Still, they have not played a lot of minutes together

1476
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,039
in the clutch like that. That's one thing, you know

1477
01:07:12,079 --> 01:07:14,719
that has been talked about, But their minutes have actually

1478
01:07:14,719 --> 01:07:19,800
been good when they're in the clutch together. I just

1479
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:22,800
think this might be cheating a little bit too. I

1480
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,920
think it's more interesting how they close, you know, when

1481
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:28,880
they're down, Like if you know it's a five point

1482
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,679
game and they're trailing the Boston Celtics or something like that,

1483
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:35,559
where do they go in those situations? Because I think

1484
01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:37,679
for the majority of the season they're probably going to

1485
01:07:37,719 --> 01:07:39,800
be leading in the fourth quarter. I think that this

1486
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:41,239
is a team that's going to be in the mid

1487
01:07:41,239 --> 01:07:43,719
fifties in terms of wins, and that just means like

1488
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:45,480
you're going to be closing out a lot of teams.

1489
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:47,199
And I think when you're closing out teams and you

1490
01:07:47,199 --> 01:07:49,119
have the lead, you're gonna want Moblean.

1491
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 2: Allen out there. You're gonna want Garland, you wanna want Mitchell,

1492
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:52,880
You're gonna want Strews.

1493
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:57,599
Speaker 1: Is there a weird, offbeat, unpredictable lineup that you would

1494
01:07:57,639 --> 01:07:59,159
like to see them roll out this season?

1495
01:08:00,239 --> 01:08:03,440
Speaker 3: I you know, this is going back to Jalen Tyson.

1496
01:08:03,599 --> 01:08:05,480
I'd like to see a little Jalen Tyson at before.

1497
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:09,559
I don't care which pairing it's with. I don't care

1498
01:08:09,559 --> 01:08:13,320
if it's you know, I still think if you're trying

1499
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:16,319
to maximize this roster, I do think when you're staggering,

1500
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:18,520
you're still going to want Garland and Moley together. I

1501
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,199
think they have the best chemistry together. We saw them

1502
01:08:21,199 --> 01:08:23,439
in a game, you know, a playoff game against Boston

1503
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:27,319
without Donald, without Jared, they still almost beat Boston in

1504
01:08:27,359 --> 01:08:29,479
Game four. It came down to the wire. Boston has

1505
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,680
thirty more free throws and still barely won. Like that

1506
01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:36,319
pairing still rocks. They're really good together. Even in you

1507
01:08:36,319 --> 01:08:39,000
know a limited state. I still want to see them together.

1508
01:08:39,039 --> 01:08:41,479
I still want to see Donovan and jarreted together because

1509
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,600
I think Jared's the better screen setter, and you know,

1510
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:48,760
he fits Donovan's skill set better than Mobley does. I

1511
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:51,119
just want Tyson out there. I want I want him

1512
01:08:51,119 --> 01:08:53,560
out there. I want to see him, you know, whether

1513
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,840
it's with like a Sam Merrill and a Max Druce

1514
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,680
just to get ultimate shooting and let him kind of

1515
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:01,479
make decisions with space and a big man to playoff of.

1516
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:04,000
I just want to see what the rookie can do,

1517
01:09:04,079 --> 01:09:08,159
which again ties into like if it hits, that makes

1518
01:09:08,199 --> 01:09:10,600
a huge difference, right, Like that addresses one of the

1519
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,720
biggest needs that this team has, you know, from a

1520
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:17,960
contending macro standpoint. So any opportunity to kind of let

1521
01:09:18,039 --> 01:09:20,479
him shine, I think would be the funky lineup I

1522
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:21,039
want to see.

1523
01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 1: And you might have sold me on him to the

1524
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:24,159
point where the lineup I was trying to figure out

1525
01:09:24,239 --> 01:09:26,479
is I want Mobley at the five, but I want

1526
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:28,319
no bones about like, oh that he will we will

1527
01:09:28,359 --> 01:09:31,119
run the offense a good share of the time through him,

1528
01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:33,479
so I had I was looking for a fifth.

1529
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 2: Darlin Meryl Strus Tyson Mobley, let's go.

1530
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 1: I want I want none of Mitchell or Garland on

1531
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:42,159
during those minutes. I'm not leaving anything up. Okay, Okay,

1532
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:42,880
give me.

1533
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:48,800
Speaker 2: Ti Jerome Meryll Struce, Tyson.

1534
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 1: Mobley done that book it. I'd love to see that.

1535
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 2: I'm into it. I'm into it.

1536
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:56,319
Speaker 1: As we record this, which is being recorded on September

1537
01:09:56,439 --> 01:09:59,600
the fourth, They're over Under is set at forty eight

1538
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:01,840
point five. Are you taking the over.

1539
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:03,840
Speaker 3: The Ham or the over Ham or the over They

1540
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,720
were at that line with everything going wrong last season.

1541
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:09,680
Speaker 2: I think they are very easy over.

1542
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:12,359
Speaker 1: I was actually, we haven't done our over unders yet,

1543
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:14,840
like Brent and I. I was surprised that it ended

1544
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:16,479
up kind of here, But I guess that might say

1545
01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:18,439
more about just the state of the East at the

1546
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:21,800
top where if they're taking in like jumps from Indiana

1547
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:24,520
or Orlando on top of Philly, New York. Boston of

1548
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:27,159
course is there. But I was surprised, like I thought

1549
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:28,560
this one was going to be at least forty nine

1550
01:10:28,560 --> 01:10:30,239
obviously not a huge gap, but I thought it was

1551
01:10:30,279 --> 01:10:34,119
gonna be like fifty ish around there. Where do you

1552
01:10:34,119 --> 01:10:36,560
see them? Sort of so there's Boston obviously, but how

1553
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:38,199
do you see them stacking up with the other teams

1554
01:10:38,199 --> 01:10:40,319
that are mentioned in that conversation of who's the second

1555
01:10:40,319 --> 01:10:43,880
best team in the East? Is there between Milwaukee, Philly

1556
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:46,800
and New York specifically? And if you want to throw Orlando, Indiana, Miami,

1557
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:49,800
and there's like which are those teams either fascinate you

1558
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:51,720
the most? Do you find the most difficult matchup for

1559
01:10:51,760 --> 01:10:53,159
the Caves however you want to go with it?

1560
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:56,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think the second tier in the

1561
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:01,479
East is like New York, Cleveland, Philly, Milwaukee in some order.

1562
01:11:02,239 --> 01:11:07,239
I go back and forth between Nix and Calves. The

1563
01:11:07,359 --> 01:11:11,319
interesting thing about the Knicks is they're very similar to

1564
01:11:11,359 --> 01:11:14,159
the Caves, which is, you know, the conversation of how

1565
01:11:14,159 --> 01:11:17,359
do you win without a consensus top ten player? I

1566
01:11:17,359 --> 01:11:19,960
think it's the same kind of team building questions. I

1567
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:24,880
think it'll be really interesting to see how I think

1568
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,039
Julius Randall's really going to matter to them because.

1569
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:30,560
Speaker 1: Oh, I I'm sorry, I'm just he matters more to

1570
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:34,520
them now because they decided to cash in all, basically

1571
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:37,079
all of their trade chips on someone who really shouldn't

1572
01:11:37,119 --> 01:11:40,079
even be the number two best shot creator on a team.

1573
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,039
Speaker 3: Michail Bridges and Ogianna and Obi are two of the

1574
01:11:43,079 --> 01:11:46,640
worst isolation players in the league that don't provide much playmaking.

1575
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:50,680
Mitchell Robinson's not providing playmaking, so Julius Randall and Jalen

1576
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,359
Brunson are going to be shill during that load. Obviously,

1577
01:11:53,359 --> 01:11:56,239
you know you can sub Dante Devencenza win, but we

1578
01:11:56,319 --> 01:11:58,640
saw that, like he's not as effective as a low

1579
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:00,880
minute player as he is when he was like playing

1580
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:02,800
forty two minutes per game, Like he kind of found

1581
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,520
his rhythm there. I'm interested to see how that dynamic goes.

1582
01:12:06,399 --> 01:12:10,920
I have the Knicks still over Philly and Milwaukee. I'm

1583
01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:11,760
going to need to see it.

1584
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 2: With Milwaukee, I mentioned before that you know they were

1585
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:18,520
below five hundred team with Doc, I think they're better

1586
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:18,800
than that.

1587
01:12:19,000 --> 01:12:22,279
Speaker 3: But like, I just need to see them stay healthy.

1588
01:12:22,359 --> 01:12:24,279
I need to see it click. I need to see

1589
01:12:24,319 --> 01:12:27,920
how old brook Lopez is, what Middleton's ankles look like like.

1590
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:29,600
Speaker 2: I just I don't love it.

1591
01:12:30,039 --> 01:12:32,279
Speaker 1: I think I'm fine with way brook Lopez played last year,

1592
01:12:32,319 --> 01:12:33,800
not too worried about him, but it's the hell thing

1593
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,399
with them. But I also do think that Milwaukee and

1594
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:38,399
Cleveland both I don't know if it's just because of

1595
01:12:38,399 --> 01:12:40,520
the gravitas of look at all these moves that Philly

1596
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:42,640
and New York made, they're just mentioned like, oh, they're

1597
01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:44,079
going to be competing for second best in the East.

1598
01:12:44,119 --> 01:12:47,079
I think both Cleveland Milwaukee deserved more consideration there and

1599
01:12:47,079 --> 01:12:48,920
I would, honestly, if to me Milwaukee was healthy, I

1600
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:51,159
would probably pick Milwaukee as the second best team.

1601
01:12:51,399 --> 01:12:53,920
Speaker 3: And I can say it man like so often, you know,

1602
01:12:54,279 --> 01:12:56,399
NBA history comes down to who's the best player in

1603
01:12:56,399 --> 01:12:58,520
a series, and Giannis is still probably the best player

1604
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:03,439
in the East. Philly top three is great, but there

1605
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:06,000
are questions you know about and being and Paul George

1606
01:13:06,039 --> 01:13:08,800
of can they get healthy or stay healthy by the playoffs?

1607
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,680
Speaker 2: Can they play well in the playoffs? The rest of

1608
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:15,119
that roster, man, like that supporting cast is rough. We'll

1609
01:13:15,159 --> 01:13:16,680
see if it kind of shakes.

1610
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 3: Out, but like that's a lot of pressure on that

1611
01:13:21,119 --> 01:13:21,840
top three.

1612
01:13:22,239 --> 01:13:23,840
Speaker 1: They they have a not I think they have a

1613
01:13:23,920 --> 01:13:26,279
nice top seven to eight. But you do get into

1614
01:13:26,359 --> 01:13:29,119
just like you're asking Caleb Martin Endel, Paul George Ran

1615
01:13:29,159 --> 01:13:30,760
how to play a lot of four And then it's like,

1616
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:32,960
is Yabusele you're gonna actually get minutes for this team

1617
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:34,800
as of now, they're gonna make a move. They have

1618
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:36,760
the picks, they have some tradable contracts.

1619
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,640
Speaker 3: So I just like, if Caleb Martin's your fifth best player,

1620
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:40,439
how good are you?

1621
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 2: Like?

1622
01:13:41,039 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 3: That's that's the thing I keep running into, like he

1623
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:46,520
would if you like just dropped him on the casts.

1624
01:13:46,880 --> 01:13:52,520
Speaker 2: He's eight. No, he's behind Struce. He's behind Struce, he's

1625
01:13:52,520 --> 01:13:53,359
behind the vert.

1626
01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:58,199
Speaker 1: I might still take him over cars Lavert.

1627
01:13:58,159 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 2: As I win.

1628
01:13:59,279 --> 01:14:00,840
Speaker 3: I don't think he didn't have that great of a

1629
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:03,399
season last year, so maybe I'm over indexing on that, but.

1630
01:14:03,479 --> 01:14:05,880
Speaker 1: He was banged up, and I value he's he's to me,

1631
01:14:05,960 --> 01:14:07,720
he's more malleable at both ends of the floor when

1632
01:14:07,720 --> 01:14:09,960
you look at positionally defensively and then it's sort of

1633
01:14:10,239 --> 01:14:12,520
more of a connector rather than a driver of things

1634
01:14:12,640 --> 01:14:14,600
on offense. But last year was not good for him.

1635
01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:16,039
I don't remember what he shot from three, but it

1636
01:14:16,119 --> 01:14:18,880
wasn't super efficient, but I think he would be.

1637
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:21,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me look at it. Okay, it was thirty

1638
01:14:21,359 --> 01:14:25,319
five percent, so it was better than I thought. Yeah,

1639
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:29,319
I can see the argument anyways, Yeah, six or seven,

1640
01:14:29,439 --> 01:14:31,000
so yeah, it's not that far different.

1641
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:33,199
Speaker 1: I mean it's even be health thing for me, for

1642
01:14:33,239 --> 01:14:35,119
all the people that are harping on Milwaukee's health, and

1643
01:14:35,159 --> 01:14:37,079
it's like we've watched Joelle and b now never get

1644
01:14:37,119 --> 01:14:39,199
to the postseason, like even a semblance of healthy.

1645
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:40,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah.

1646
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:42,199
Speaker 1: I mean the East, like the top four or five

1647
01:14:42,199 --> 01:14:43,800
in the East is going to be super fascinating to

1648
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:47,239
watch unfold last year. And I do think I said

1649
01:14:47,239 --> 01:14:48,760
this last year to you. If you told me the

1650
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:50,680
Cavs were in the NBA Finals last year, I wouldn't

1651
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:52,279
beat ny I don't I'm not going to predict it,

1652
01:14:52,359 --> 01:14:53,520
but I wouldn't bet Nye at it.

1653
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:56,520
Speaker 3: I'm at that point this year. I think they needed

1654
01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:01,399
the experience of the last two seasons. They they've kind

1655
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:04,800
of met our preseason predictions all on the podcast, Like

1656
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,159
you know two years ago when when people were saying,

1657
01:15:07,359 --> 01:15:09,359
you know, even after the Mitchell trade, like you listen

1658
01:15:09,399 --> 01:15:11,920
to low posts and it's, well, you know, they're behind Toronto,

1659
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:15,600
they're behind Atlanta. Atlanta made a conference finals like they

1660
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:17,439
had them as like the seven eight seed. I think

1661
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:19,800
that sometimes gets forgotten about it, and then you know

1662
01:15:20,079 --> 01:15:20,520
they were.

1663
01:15:20,840 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 1: I don't even remember that.

1664
01:15:21,880 --> 01:15:24,359
Speaker 2: So yeah, proving I'm Petty.

1665
01:15:24,359 --> 01:15:27,800
Speaker 3: I remember everything they you know, like they worked their

1666
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:29,119
way up to to be the kind of that home

1667
01:15:29,159 --> 01:15:31,279
court team and everything went wrong last year and they

1668
01:15:31,319 --> 01:15:35,199
still got home court. Like I think the experience, everything

1669
01:15:35,239 --> 01:15:38,680
they went through, the fact that you know, even in

1670
01:15:38,720 --> 01:15:41,800
the depleted state where Mitchell's knees busted, Mobile's playing through

1671
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:44,199
a high ankle spring, Garland's backs messed up, and He's

1672
01:15:44,199 --> 01:15:46,199
still coming back from the jaw and Jared Allen's out

1673
01:15:46,199 --> 01:15:48,600
with a bruised rib, like, they still gave Boston the

1674
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,840
toughest series, like the that was still the closest Boston

1675
01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:55,800
got to going six games with a team that to

1676
01:15:55,840 --> 01:15:58,239
me means something. I do think that the supporting cast

1677
01:15:58,279 --> 01:15:59,880
is going to be better. I think Garris Garland's going

1678
01:15:59,880 --> 01:16:01,479
to be a whole lot better. I think Evan Mobley

1679
01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:04,159
is going to take a step forward, and hopefully Donovan

1680
01:16:04,159 --> 01:16:06,960
Mitchell's healthy come playoffs, because you know, I was super

1681
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:08,960
impressed with his ability to do what he did in

1682
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:12,600
the playoffs while being injured, but he was physically limited

1683
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,439
and man like that was a shell of him physically.

1684
01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:19,319
So I do think I might only put it like

1685
01:16:19,359 --> 01:16:22,520
a five percent chance that they can make the NBA Finals.

1686
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:24,199
But I do think that they are a team that

1687
01:16:24,239 --> 01:16:27,359
could beat anyone in the East. It's just going to

1688
01:16:27,439 --> 01:16:30,960
come down to can they win three times? That that's

1689
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:31,880
going to be the hard thing.

1690
01:16:33,199 --> 01:16:35,760
Speaker 1: Justin, is there anything about this team? Anyone else on

1691
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:37,239
this team we didn't discuss that you would like to

1692
01:16:37,239 --> 01:16:38,720
touch upon before I let Uskidado.

1693
01:16:39,359 --> 01:16:41,600
Speaker 3: I mean we went deep on Jail and Tyson. I mean,

1694
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:44,399
just you know, I would encourage people to watch Summer

1695
01:16:44,439 --> 01:16:47,680
League highlights because those obviously really matter. Summer League really

1696
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:50,199
really matters. That we've never seen someone play well there

1697
01:16:50,199 --> 01:16:51,960
and not play well in the NBA.

1698
01:16:53,640 --> 01:16:57,039
Speaker 1: Clearly the biggest draft bust of all time matter.

1699
01:16:57,119 --> 01:16:59,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, they take it, take it incredibly seriously.

1700
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:05,439
Speaker 3: I did, like, so, we don't watch college like Carter

1701
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:08,359
and I don't watch college. So we had Maxwell Baumgardner

1702
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:11,000
on right before the draft, and it was funny that

1703
01:17:11,039 --> 01:17:13,720
he said, like before then he's like, my favorite fit

1704
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:16,680
for the Cavs is Jalen Tyson, and then boom, Jalen Tyson.

1705
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,079
Speaker 2: Like it was great that it worked out that way.

1706
01:17:20,079 --> 01:17:22,119
Speaker 3: My big thing, and I think one of the takeaways

1707
01:17:22,159 --> 01:17:27,479
from Boston's championship is I do think the NBA is moving,

1708
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:31,600
especially in this kind of parody driven league, to you

1709
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:33,880
need to have guys that can do a lot of things.

1710
01:17:34,079 --> 01:17:36,000
You need guys that can create a lot of positions.

1711
01:17:36,039 --> 01:17:39,079
I think Kenny Atkinson's offense is catered towards that, and

1712
01:17:39,119 --> 01:17:41,319
I hope that the Caves are taking a step towards

1713
01:17:41,319 --> 01:17:44,159
that direction because I think in the past it was

1714
01:17:44,199 --> 01:17:46,720
too clearly defined who was a play initiator and who

1715
01:17:46,760 --> 01:17:49,279
was a play finisher, and that made them predictable in

1716
01:17:49,319 --> 01:17:52,840
the playoffs. I think they have the personnel. I think

1717
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:54,800
they have the coaching staff in place, and I think

1718
01:17:56,239 --> 01:17:58,720
the failures of the last two years in the playoffs

1719
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:01,880
have kind of highlighted that need enough that they're able

1720
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,319
to take those proper steps forward. Because if they are

1721
01:18:04,359 --> 01:18:06,560
able to do that where it's not always on Darius

1722
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:09,359
and it's not always on Donovan to create absolutely everything,

1723
01:18:09,720 --> 01:18:13,119
I do think that this roster has the talent to

1724
01:18:13,239 --> 01:18:16,000
go out there and have their offense translate to the playoffs.

1725
01:18:17,279 --> 01:18:22,079
Speaker 1: Justin this was fantastic, educational, instructive, and sightful the whole nine.

1726
01:18:22,159 --> 01:18:24,359
As always, can you just very quickly tell our listeners

1727
01:18:24,359 --> 01:18:27,119
where they can find you and all the fantastic audio

1728
01:18:27,199 --> 01:18:28,680
content that you're just pumping out there.

1729
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:31,840
Speaker 3: Wherever you found this podcast, you can find the Chase down.

1730
01:18:31,880 --> 01:18:34,199
We are on the Cavs YouTube channel. We do go

1731
01:18:34,319 --> 01:18:36,760
live once a week in the off season, twice a

1732
01:18:36,800 --> 01:18:41,760
week in during season. You know, support us, leave us ratings, reviews,

1733
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:43,960
all that good stuff, just like you do with Hardwood Knocks.

1734
01:18:44,359 --> 01:18:46,800
If you're not doing that and you listen to these podcasts,

1735
01:18:47,239 --> 01:18:47,800
what are you doing?

1736
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:48,159
Speaker 2: Man Like?

1737
01:18:48,319 --> 01:18:50,279
Speaker 3: It's the easiest thing in the world. You can also

1738
01:18:50,319 --> 01:18:53,079
find me on Twitter. I'm not on there super frequently,

1739
01:18:53,119 --> 01:18:54,760
but at Kavvanna you can find me.

1740
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:58,560
Speaker 1: There the Twitter handle that I was mispronouncing until last year.

1741
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:00,920
So for basically seven years it was just have the

1742
01:19:01,000 --> 01:19:02,199
nada is what I would call it.

1743
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:05,319
Speaker 2: It looks way better in writing than it does out lot.

1744
01:19:05,399 --> 01:19:08,319
Speaker 1: That's fine, Well, thanks so much. As you know right now,

1745
01:19:08,319 --> 01:19:09,880
I will be festering you again down the line, so.

1746
01:19:09,840 --> 01:19:11,560
Speaker 2: I will talk to you too. Man. You better I

1747
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:13,359
will pick it very personally. If you don't