WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.039 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them. Gaesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK. Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.359 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 7 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:40.799 Good Evening. 8 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:45.799 A crime that shattered paradise, A chase that became legend. 9 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:52.240 Crystal Beach, Florida, nineteen forty nine, a peaceful seaside haven 10 00:00:52.359 --> 00:00:57.079 where crime was unheard of until one early morning, A 11 00:00:57.119 --> 00:01:03.640 brutal act of violence changed everything. John Calvin Rastus Russell, 12 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:10.079 a drifter, thug and small time carthief, committed an unthinkable crime, 13 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:13.959 the torture and murder of Norman Brown and the near 14 00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:18.840 fatal assault on his wife Anne. The savage attack sent 15 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:24.200 shockwaves through the tight knit community, turning everyday citizens into 16 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:29.439 arm vigilantes determined to bring a killer to justice. But 17 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:33.959 this was no ordinary murder case. Russell's dramatic capture the 18 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:37.040 next day was just the beginning of a story far 19 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:43.959 stranger than fiction. As investigators pursued justice, shocking secrets unraveled 20 00:01:44.239 --> 00:01:47.879 about the victims, their past, and a tangled web of 21 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.959 the seat that no one saw coming. With a desperate escape, 22 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:57.079 a relentless manhunt, and a hurricane crashing into the chaos, 23 00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:00.680 the pursuit of Rastus Russell became a deadly game of 24 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:05.159 cat and mouse, pushing the limits of nineteen forty's rural 25 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:10.719 law enforcement. For nearly a month, terror gripped Crystal Beach 26 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:15.719 in West central Florida. The case became national news, a 27 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:21.199 chilling tale whispered for generations, But nothing will prepare readers 28 00:02:21.240 --> 00:02:26.120 for the explosive and controversial ending, one that left residence 29 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:31.280 and police stunned. Just like the movies. One headline declared, 30 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:36.439 but this was real, and now, for the first time, 31 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:40.919 the full story of Rastus Russell is told, a tale 32 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:44.960 of crime, deception, and justice that will haunt you long 33 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:48.719 after the last page. The book that we're featuring this 34 00:02:48.800 --> 00:02:54.360 evening is Madman, The incredible true story of John Calvin Russell, 35 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:59.960 the heinous crime and sensational manhunt that terrified Central Florida 36 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:08.639 in nineteen forty nine, with my special guest author M. F. Gross. 37 00:03:09.319 --> 00:03:11.680 Welcome to the program, and thank you very much for 38 00:03:11.719 --> 00:03:12.360 this interview. 39 00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:16.840 M F. Gross, thank you very much. Dan, I'm glad 40 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:17.319 to be here. 41 00:03:17.759 --> 00:03:21.520 Oh, thank you so much. And congratulations on this new book, Madman. 42 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.800 I appreciate that. Dan, I'm glad we can talk about 43 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:26.439 it here today. 44 00:03:27.680 --> 00:03:30.719 You write about a lot in your introduction to explain 45 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:34.159 the times that we're nineteen forty nine, But tell us 46 00:03:34.159 --> 00:03:38.960 about Crystal Beach, Florida and Penelas County in nineteen forty nine, 47 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:44.840 and your background in writing and how you came to 48 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:47.159 want to be the author of mad Man. 49 00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:53.680 Sure. Crystal Beach is a tiny seaside community on the 50 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:57.000 west coast of Florida. It's just above clear Water, sits 51 00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:00.639 right on the golf used to be golf from Mexico 52 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:04.919 Gulf of America, but it sits right on a little 53 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:09.599 inlet called Saint Joseph's Sound, And back in nineteen forty nine, 54 00:04:09.759 --> 00:04:15.240 it was really an little idyllic kind of seaside village. 55 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:18.279 Everybody knew each other, all the kids played with each other, 56 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:26.800 and really kind of that mid twentieth century Mayberry type place. 57 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:32.560 And I had the privilege of moving to Crystal Beach 58 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:37.000 in twenty or two thousand and seven. It's when I 59 00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:40.399 first moved there, lived there for twelve years, and during 60 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:43.079 that time it still retained a lot of that character. 61 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:47.160 It Obviously, new houses had grown up, but it still 62 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:52.360 maintained a lot of that old Florida flavor. And I 63 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:58.199 came across a book about Crystal Beach that was entitled 64 00:04:58.199 --> 00:05:01.079 Crystal Beach Shangri La, and it was really just a 65 00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:05.120 collection of stories from old time residents that had lived 66 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:09.519 there back in the mid twentieth century, people that grew 67 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:13.360 up in mostly in the forties, fifties, and sixties, and 68 00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:15.879 it talked about that that lifestyle and what it was 69 00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:18.600 like and how they spent a lot of their time 70 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:23.519 out in the water scalloping and fishing and swimming and 71 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:27.399 everything else. And there was a lot of really nice 72 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:32.720 Americana stories in there about picnics and things they used 73 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:35.800 to do together and that sort of thing. But in 74 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:41.959 between those stories, I came across this darker memory of 75 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:47.160 one resident by the name of Linda Henry. And Linda 76 00:05:47.240 --> 00:05:53.720 told the story of a very disturbing, macabre murder that 77 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:57.720 had happened in Crystal Beach in nineteen forty nine. And 78 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:01.720 I had never heard this story before. And I read 79 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:05.240 the story, and the part that got me at the 80 00:06:05.439 --> 00:06:09.560 end was Linda talked about being a six year old girl. 81 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:13.360 And obviously, the day of the murder, it was big 82 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:15.839 news in Crystal Beach. All the residents were there and 83 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:19.639 the police and everything else. But the next day she 84 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:22.639 walked up there as a little girl, six year old girl, 85 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:25.240 and she says she still remembers looking in the window, 86 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:30.360 the bedroom window, and seeing all the blood. And she said, 87 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:32.959 you know, there was a smell. There was a smell 88 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:35.519 in the air of that blood, of that blood, and 89 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:40.279 I still can't walk back there to this day without 90 00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:43.920 smelling that smell. And it just it disturbed her. And 91 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:47.000 I said, boy, that is a creepy story. You know, 92 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:49.600 I've got to figure out what happened there. And so 93 00:06:49.720 --> 00:06:54.079 I started researching a little bit, and the more I learned. 94 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:56.560 First of all, I learned the house was only about 95 00:06:56.560 --> 00:07:00.279 one hundred yards from where my house was. Wow Else 96 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:04.720 used to stand and I walked by there every day, 97 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:08.959 and the house wasn't there anymore. But now I started 98 00:07:08.959 --> 00:07:13.199 looking at this in a new light, and the story 99 00:07:13.240 --> 00:07:14.720 just kind of took on a life of its own, 100 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:17.480 and I decided to write a book about it. That 101 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:18.800 fascinated me. That much. 102 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:25.639 You take us to August seventh, nineteen forty nine, and 103 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:29.560 the home of Norman and Anne Brown. Tell us a 104 00:07:29.639 --> 00:07:32.360 little bit about Norman Brown. You say seventy four years 105 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:35.199 old in nineteen forty nine. Tell us a little bit 106 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:40.240 about Norman Brown, his marriage to Anne, and what happens 107 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:41.680 on that faithful day. 108 00:07:43.319 --> 00:07:47.439 Sure, Norman Brown was a retiree, worked for an electric 109 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:53.079 company up in New York. And he has an interesting 110 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:55.720 backstory which I won't go all into here, but he 111 00:07:55.800 --> 00:08:01.800 was he was married to Anne. They got divorced, Norman remarried, 112 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:07.000 and they moved to Crystal Beach him and his second wife. 113 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:11.920 And his second wife died shortly after they moved to 114 00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:17.000 Crystal Beach, and Norman went back to New York and 115 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:20.199 remarried Anne and brought her back to Crystal Beach. So 116 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.000 that's how they were living here in nineteen forty nine. 117 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:29.519 His wife, Anne was about ten years younger, and she 118 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:33.200 was also a retiree. So they're living in Crystal Beach. 119 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:36.080 They're living out in the secluded edge of Crystal Beach, 120 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:41.759 down a dusty lane called Rattlesnake Road, and they had 121 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:45.799 just put their house up for sale. They were supposedly 122 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:50.080 having some financial difficulties, which may play into some of 123 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:53.240 the theories later in the story. But they had just 124 00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:55.000 put their house up for sale, and that's where we 125 00:08:55.039 --> 00:08:58.799 find ourselves. On August seventh, nineteen forty nine. 126 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:04.000 He said that Anne looks out the window and sees 127 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:09.960 a black nineteen forty six Ford. But she recognizes the driver, 128 00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:14.360 but you can't remember his name. What does she remember 129 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:19.039 him from? And what happens once she sees him again 130 00:09:19.039 --> 00:09:20.879 in a few minutes fifteen minutes or. 131 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:25.200 So, Sure, and Dan, that's an interesting point because she 132 00:09:25.360 --> 00:09:31.840 claims she didn't remember his name. But the more I 133 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:35.600 read the book, the more suspicious I got of Anne Brown. 134 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:41.240 But according to her, when he pulls up, she remembers 135 00:09:41.320 --> 00:09:45.200 him visiting the house a couple of months earlier, where 136 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:50.720 he had supposedly stopped and asked for water in his car. 137 00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:53.879 Now she changes this story three times. First she says 138 00:09:53.879 --> 00:09:56.879 he stopped for water in his car, Then she says 139 00:09:56.879 --> 00:09:59.279 he stopped to look at the house. Then she says 140 00:09:59.360 --> 00:10:01.480 he was a pump prepair man and he came to 141 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:05.799 repair the pump at the house. Well, Russell was never 142 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:08.159 a pump prepairman. He never worked as a pump repairman. 143 00:10:10.840 --> 00:10:16.200 And the stories really don't add up altogether, but according 144 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.679 to her, he stopped ask for water. They went out back, 145 00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:23.080 the pump didn't work, and while they were trying to 146 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:25.039 get the pump to work, he asked about the house 147 00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:28.120 and if it was you know, what the price was, 148 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:30.399 and he had some friends he thought might be interested 149 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:33.960 in it. And she sent him to the neighbors for water, 150 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:35.879 and that was the end of it. So when she 151 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:40.679 sees this car pulling up again, she sees his face 152 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:44.200 and she says, oh, you know, he must I remember 153 00:10:44.200 --> 00:10:47.320 that guy. He must be coming back to look at 154 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:48.879 the house. You know, he said he was interested in 155 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:51.240 the house. So that's what they're thinking when he pulls 156 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:52.440 up on that early morning. 157 00:10:55.639 --> 00:11:00.440 What is her description of this person? And you introduced 158 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:06.159 this person as John Calvin Russell, So what is her 159 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:09.879 description of this person? And you give the background of 160 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.639 this person now looking much different than previously. 161 00:11:16.120 --> 00:11:20.840 Well, Rastus Russell was a handsome man. And not only 162 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:26.679 was he handsome, he was very muscular, especially for nineteen 163 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:29.919 forty nine, where you know today there's a gym on 164 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:32.960 every corner, but back then that wasn't really the case. 165 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.720 Working out wasn't really a big mainstream thing back then, 166 00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:41.039 and to what extent Russell worked out or not, we 167 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:45.399 don't know. But he was definitely a muscleman and had 168 00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:49.399 movie star good looks. Supposedly also had a lot of charisma, 169 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:57.799 so his appearance was very disarming when you first meet him. 170 00:11:57.840 --> 00:12:00.720 When you first see him, so this is the guy 171 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:07.919 that pulls up in their driveway and and Norman are 172 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:14.840 not aware of his background, which rastus. Russell is a 173 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:20.559 well known name in Penellas County and in particularly Palm Harbor, 174 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.080 which is right outside of Crystal Beach. It's kind of 175 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:31.919 the surrounds Crystal Beach. Russell is for the most part 176 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:38.159 small time hoodlum, thief, car thief. He has done a 177 00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:41.320 lot of thefts, breaks into stores and steals things. He's 178 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:47.240 known to local police. Is a local hoodlum. But he 179 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:52.320 has been away for about seven years because he left 180 00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:55.360 the state. We get into that later. He's been in 181 00:12:55.399 --> 00:12:57.120 and out of prison, He's been in and out of 182 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:01.919 mental institutions. He has a violet streak. He's by this 183 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:07.080 time he's already attacked different people. He's arrested after he 184 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:10.480 leaves the state, He's arrested up in Illinois for car theft, 185 00:13:10.519 --> 00:13:14.240 and he spends some time in prison there. They send 186 00:13:14.279 --> 00:13:17.519 him to a mental institution because he's pleaded insanity a 187 00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:24.200 couple times to different crimes, which depending on who evaluates him, 188 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.519 some determine him and saying Others say no, he's perfectly normal, 189 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:32.159 and others present an interesting theory which I happen to 190 00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:38.039 subscribe to, that Russell had a jeckyal Hyde personality, which 191 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:40.759 means he's saying most of the time, but there are 192 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:44.399 brief periods where he can slip into moments of insanity, 193 00:13:45.279 --> 00:13:49.399 And based on what I've studied about him and how 194 00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:56.159 he behaves, this seems to match up with what his 195 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:59.440 condition seems to be based on his behavior. But when 196 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:01.639 he pulls up an Ann and Norman's driveway, they have 197 00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:05.759 no idea this is his background. He's just this handsome 198 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:09.720 stranger that visited them a few months earlier and seemed 199 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.840 very cordial and polite. 200 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:16.240 You're right that he spends quite quite some time at 201 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.840 the home, over three hours, talking about all kinds of things. 202 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:23.519 He sits there and speaks with him and has coffee, 203 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:27.399 shares coffee with him, and then you say that in 204 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:32.440 the area there are deadly rattlesnakes and among other wild 205 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:37.600 creatures that people defend themselves against with weapons like shotguns. 206 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:40.320 So Norman has a couple of shotguns and one of 207 00:14:40.360 --> 00:14:44.039 them happens to be in the washroom. After speaking for 208 00:14:44.080 --> 00:14:45.559 a while, you. 209 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:46.200 Write that. 210 00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:54.519 Rastus goes into the washroom, and when he emerges, what happens. 211 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:59.080 Rassus goes into the washroom after talking with them for 212 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:02.120 three and a half hour. And I don't want to 213 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:04.679 skip over, because I think that's a critical part of 214 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:09.279 the story. Dan is, if you're showing up at someone's 215 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:12.639 house to rob them, do you sit at their dining 216 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:14.519 room table and talk to them for three and a 217 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:18.360 half hours over coffee and take he took Norman to 218 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:21.720 get a newspaper and they go back. If one of 219 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:25.799 you don't know them, and two if you're there with 220 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:31.320 intention of robbing them, that part never added up to me, 221 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.639 and it sheds a lot of suspicion on the Brown's 222 00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:41.519 former knowledge of him. But and I hope I'm not 223 00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:44.279 over elaborating here, but I do you brought up rattlesnakes. 224 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:47.639 I want to tell you one quick story about when 225 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:53.559 I lived there, and this was probably twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. Right, 226 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.360 there's a Rattlesnake Road. Doesn't exist anymore. It's been made 227 00:15:57.399 --> 00:16:01.360 into another more modern road, but it's still traces part 228 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:04.039 of Rattlesnake Road. And that's how I would drive to 229 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:06.360 my house to get home. And I'm coming home from 230 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:11.120 work one day and there I talked about rattlesnakes can 231 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.039 grow six feet down there there's a six foot rattlesnake 232 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.039 in the middle of the road, sprawled out. It had 233 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:20.000 been run over. Its head was run over, but the 234 00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:22.240 rest of it was still there. It must have just happened, 235 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.279 and it was right in the spot where their house sat. 236 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:32.759 So that's what almost you know, almost six seventy years later, 237 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.759 there's still rattlesnakes back there. So that's part of the story. 238 00:16:37.120 --> 00:16:37.320 Wow. 239 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.960 But to answer your question, Russell, after three and a 240 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:45.279 half hours, he excuses himself. He goes into Norman Brown's 241 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:52.320 bathroom and he comes out holding Norman's shotgun which is loaded, 242 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:57.159 and he points it at Norman's chest and Norman says, 243 00:16:57.480 --> 00:16:59.720 you know what's going on here? What are you doing? 244 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.440 And at this point he is her whole personality shifts, 245 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:07.960 he changes, He screams, I'm a desperate man. He smashes 246 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:12.000 the coffee cup out of Norman's hand, and he tells 247 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:16.200 them this story about how he's he's part of a 248 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:20.279 drug gang from Chicago and they better do what he 249 00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:23.440 says or his drug friends are going to take care 250 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:27.000 of it, take care of them, and he wants their money. 251 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:31.680 It's where's the money now. Keep in mind this is 252 00:17:31.759 --> 00:17:34.519 all according to Anne Brown, and she's the only witness, 253 00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:38.960 so this is her version of what happened. But they 254 00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:40.920 keep saying we don't have any money. Where people are 255 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:45.559 limited means we don't have any money. Russell doesn't believe them. 256 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:49.400 He orders he tells him he's going to tie them up. 257 00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:52.440 He asks them where they would prefer to be tied up, 258 00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.680 in their bedroom or the garage, and then, without letting 259 00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.759 them decide, he marches them out to the garage. He 260 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:05.240 ties them their bounds, their ankles, their wrists, and then 261 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:08.359 he puts a rope over the beams out in the garage, 262 00:18:08.359 --> 00:18:11.920 which is called the garage. It's really just a storage shed, 263 00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:17.039 dirt floor, woodn't but he ties them up so their 264 00:18:17.079 --> 00:18:22.160 hands are over their heads hanging from those beams, and 265 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:23.799 then he goes back in the house and they hear 266 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:27.400 him tearing through the house, tearing things up, looking supposedly 267 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:31.440 looking for money, and if for some strange reason, he 268 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:34.000 gets in his car and leaves. And at this point 269 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:37.119 they think the ordeal's over. So they're left in their 270 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:40.240 garage thinking he's gone, but they still have to get 271 00:18:40.279 --> 00:18:41.039 out of these ropes. 272 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:46.319 Let's Jesus as an opportunity to stop. They hear these messages. 273 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:51.920 Now they think maybe they're in the clear. They're uninjured. 274 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:56.759 They think maybe this madman is gone, so they are 275 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.839 trying to untie themselves. What do they do in this pursuit? 276 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:04.440 And what happens maybe ninety minutes. 277 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:10.160 Later, Well, Norman manages to free himself from the ropes 278 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.559 and he unties Ann and he finds a hack saw 279 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:19.440 in the shed, and Rastus has locked the shed from 280 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:23.799 the outside, so there's a there's a steel hasp and 281 00:19:23.880 --> 00:19:26.480 he puts a I guess there's a dead bolt around it. 282 00:19:27.160 --> 00:19:31.079 So Norman's sticking that saw through the two barn like 283 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:33.079 doors on the front of this set, and he's trying 284 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:36.799 to saw through that hasp, but it's it's given him 285 00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:40.119 a hard time. It's a thick hasp. So as he's 286 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:42.400 doing this, Erastus has gone about an hour and a 287 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:45.799 half and they think, well, we got robbed, but we're okay. 288 00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:47.880 We just got to get out of the shed and 289 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:51.559 call the cups. So Norman's working on this thing. Keep 290 00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:55.000 in mind it's it's summer in Florida, which, if you've 291 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:59.000 never been summer in Florida, it is brutal. You know, 292 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.960 it's ninety typically ninety to ninety five degrees every day, 293 00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:08.319 skyrocketing humidity. It's like being in a sauna. And they're 294 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:11.440 locked in this garage. They're older people, you know, seventy five. 295 00:20:11.559 --> 00:20:15.920 That's that can be very taxing. So he's trying to 296 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:18.000 get out of here, and all of a sudden, they 297 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:22.119 hear that engine whining back up Rattlesnake Road at that ford, 298 00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:26.079 and ann Brown looks out through the crack and she says, 299 00:20:26.079 --> 00:20:30.240 oh my god, Norman, he's coming back. And you know, 300 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:33.319 she must be terrified. They both must be terrified if 301 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:36.839 this guy's coming back. So Norman starts freaking out, and 302 00:20:36.920 --> 00:20:40.039 he starts kicking on his door, trying to break the 303 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.720 door open to get out. So Russell pulls up, pulls 304 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:46.920 up behind the house. He gets out of the car. 305 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:49.680 He comes and he sees them. He sees Norman trying 306 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:53.240 to kick the door open, and this just enrages him. 307 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.279 He flies into a rage. And at this point he 308 00:20:56.319 --> 00:20:58.480 has his own shotgun with him now, which is a 309 00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:05.160 sowd off twelve gage. He brings that gun. He throws 310 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:09.039 the door open, and so angry, he smashes Norman in 311 00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:12.079 the head with the butt of that sawed off shotgun. 312 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:15.960 And Norman goes down and he's bleeding. He's holding his 313 00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:21.319 head and Anne Brown starts screaming and again this, according 314 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:24.480 to her, is another strange part of the story. She 315 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:27.039 looks at Rastus and says, go inside and get my 316 00:21:27.119 --> 00:21:32.640 medical kit. So he does. He goes inside, he gets 317 00:21:32.680 --> 00:21:35.519 the medical kit and brings it back to Anne, so 318 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:39.759 she can tend to Norman. You know, just a strange 319 00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:44.920 he's a strange individual, and he shows bits of this 320 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:51.640 throughout the story. So she tends to Norman. Eventually he 321 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.480 gets them up and he's marching them back in the 322 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:56.400 house because he still wants this money. He thinks he's 323 00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:00.759 convinced there is money in this house, right, So he 324 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:04.440 starts marching them back in the house. And this is 325 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:08.039 where things start to get rough, because at this point 326 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:12.559 Norman he's not happy. You know, he's he's seventy five, 327 00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:15.400 but he's still a man and he was, you know, 328 00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:20.079 he was a enough rough and tumble kai back in 329 00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:23.920 his day that he doesn't want to put up with this. 330 00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:28.039 So this guy's walking him back in, and for some 331 00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:31.759 reason he looks the other way and Norman takes off running. 332 00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:35.519 Takes off running, but he's little woozy from being hitting 333 00:22:35.519 --> 00:22:38.119 the head, and instead of running out towards the driveway 334 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:41.240 into the road, he runs into his yard, which is 335 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.559 fenced and it's a barbedire fence. He runs up against 336 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.519 his barbedire fence. Erastus sees this and he's just, you know, 337 00:22:49.559 --> 00:22:52.559 he loses it. He goes storming out after him, and 338 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:57.039 he just goes into a profanity that profanity laced tirade 339 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.720 and starts beating and kicking Norman and ashing and what's 340 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:05.640 the shotgun? And he's really really don't damage. So by 341 00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:08.599 this point Norman is, you know, he's pretty beat up. 342 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:12.079 So rassues grabs him, starts dragging him back to the 343 00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:17.200 house and that's that's when they stain into the bedroom. 344 00:23:17.319 --> 00:23:20.640 You're right that he gets some cords, some from a radio, 345 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:23.799 some from a clothes line, and first he ties Rome 346 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:28.119 Norman spread eagled on the bed, and then and as well, 347 00:23:28.200 --> 00:23:31.920 spread eagled and tied to their couple's twin beds in 348 00:23:31.960 --> 00:23:34.039 the bedroom. 349 00:23:34.359 --> 00:23:38.119 That's right. Yeah, it's a really uh, it's a nightmare 350 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:41.839 like scenario when you see. You know, back in nineteen 351 00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.319 forty nine, they they took pictures and murder scenes and 352 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:47.519 put them in a newspaper, so it's not like today 353 00:23:47.559 --> 00:23:49.599 where they tried to edit it from the public. And 354 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:51.880 when you see those pictures, which I do have some 355 00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:54.920 of them featured in the book, it is it's just chilling. 356 00:23:55.000 --> 00:24:00.559 It's it's so disturbing to see see the tied up 357 00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:04.119 and helpless like that. But yeah, he ties and both 358 00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:07.519 spread eagle to the bed, and then he starts demanding 359 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:11.720 money again, and when they still won't give it up, 360 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:14.799 that's when it starts to get a little bit ugly. 361 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.160 And Rastus goes out into the kitchen and he gets 362 00:24:17.200 --> 00:24:21.279 a butcher knife and he comes back in and he says, now, 363 00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:22.759 you tell me where the money is. 364 00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:31.079 Yeah, and he also just is fed up and stabs Norman. 365 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:35.480 He had prone sheets over them, and then Norman says, 366 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.839 he's cutting my wrists, So first he slashes his wrists, 367 00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:43.880 Norman's wrists, and then plunges a knife into his chest. 368 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:49.799 You introduce a couple characters that around the same time 369 00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:56.759 have plans to meet up with the family with and 370 00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:01.039 and Norman tell us about the Thelma and Miles Crumb. 371 00:25:03.000 --> 00:25:10.880 Sure, Thelma and Miles Crumb run the local I don't 372 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:12.440 want to call it a grocery store. It was kind 373 00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:17.079 of a sundry store, but they had a little soda 374 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:21.319 bar there in Crystal Beach where they also sold various supplies. 375 00:25:21.359 --> 00:25:23.640 The small amount of groceries. It was a big gathering 376 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:27.279 place for Crystal Beach and they had ice cream, sodas. 377 00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:30.359 A lot of the kids hung out there. It's kind 378 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:32.680 of a central point of Crystal Beach. So Miles and 379 00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:37.160 Thelma Crumb know everyone in town and they are good 380 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:43.000 friends with the Browns. In fact, Miles and Thelma are 381 00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:49.000 on their way to the Browns that afternoon to drop 382 00:25:49.039 --> 00:25:53.519 off their little daughter, Judy Crumb, who at this time 383 00:25:53.799 --> 00:25:57.599 just a baby. She's eight months old, and they're dropping 384 00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:00.799 them off so Missus Brown can baby sit while they 385 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:04.599 go swimming at the beach. That Sundays are one day 386 00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:06.759 off from the store and they like to go swimming, 387 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:13.240 so they're on their way up. And just to back 388 00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:17.039 up a minute, Russell didn't just stab Norman. I mean 389 00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:20.039 he kept them in there for an hour and a half. 390 00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:24.480 Gradually he would give Norman a shot with the knife 391 00:26:24.519 --> 00:26:27.480 every time. He wouldn't tell them where something was. So 392 00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:29.720 Norman's got all these little stab wounds all over his 393 00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:33.200 legs and arms and stomach, but none of them were 394 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:38.279 fatal yet. And when he finally gets fed up with 395 00:26:38.480 --> 00:26:41.759 Norman when he can't find it, he's looking. This goes 396 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:43.559 on for an hour and a half where they're tied up. 397 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:48.079 That's when he again that pattern of losing his temper 398 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.079 and he loses his temper and just yeah, he goes 399 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:55.400 berserk on Norman with the knife and that's when that happens. 400 00:26:55.440 --> 00:27:00.640 But by the time the crumbs pull up, Rastus is 401 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.799