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<v Speaker 1>All right, I'm here with Johannah mcbrian. Thank you so

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<v Speaker 1>much for being back.

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<v Speaker 2>You're welcome.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for asking me checking in ten years later.

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<v Speaker 1>I just looked, so I was ten years flew by.

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<v Speaker 2>And we've known each other for a lot longer than that.

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<v Speaker 1>But the last time I was, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Was on your your recording, it was it was ten

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<v Speaker 2>years ago.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's right. I mean I remember when I do

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<v Speaker 1>believe that when we very first met. I had a

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<v Speaker 1>piece of New Hampshire furniture at my auction and you

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<v Speaker 1>showed up with brock Joke and you were there making notes,

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<v Speaker 1>taking measurements, all that stuff. That's when we first.

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<v Speaker 2>Met nine months ago. That was for the master Work

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<v Speaker 2>of Portsmouth Furniture Book and exhibition. Yeah, that was that

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<v Speaker 2>was a lot of fun whenever I met a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of people, a lot of great people through that. So

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<v Speaker 2>I appreciate it that counity.

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<v Speaker 1>I love that book. I have that book and that's

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<v Speaker 1>one of my favorite points.

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<v Speaker 2>And they had the anniversary at the Historical side of

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<v Speaker 2>the Portsmouth recently, not recently, that was probably five years

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<v Speaker 2>ago at this point. I know Jerry Ward put that,

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<v Speaker 2>uh put that a book together and I gave a

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<v Speaker 2>little presentation actually a Lanley boardman who was one of

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<v Speaker 2>the cabinet makers whom I wrote for the book, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was also one of my thesis, the focus of

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<v Speaker 2>my thesis with Samuel Dock when they're both cabinet makers

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<v Speaker 2>enforcement and the I had actually discovered where he trained

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<v Speaker 2>and who put whom he trained.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>I gave a talk there as part of the series

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<v Speaker 2>of the anniversary and unfortunately it will never be published,

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<v Speaker 2>so it will, I guess just go die with me,

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<v Speaker 2>but those who are at the at the session. So

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<v Speaker 2>but yeah, I traced him back to Salem and uh

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<v Speaker 2>and to the into where he were. It was a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of fun.

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<v Speaker 1>Now as far as these things used to seem like

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<v Speaker 1>they mattered so much more, and you know, years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>like when people really really into like for instance, it

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<v Speaker 1>was a wonderful opportunity to own a really nice piece

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<v Speaker 1>support Smith furniture. And you know, I loved those little

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<v Speaker 1>drop apron you know, paneled both front chests and you

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<v Speaker 1>know with the beautiful satin wood and you know match

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<v Speaker 1>Mahogany veneers and all that, and does that still exist

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<v Speaker 1>there's you know, I mean, I know things are selling

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<v Speaker 1>for a fraction, but there's still people that want this

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<v Speaker 1>type of furniture.

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<v Speaker 2>I would certainly hope. So again, I'm not in that.

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<v Speaker 2>When we spoke last ten years ago, I was the

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<v Speaker 2>founding editor of Antiqusifinder Magazine, which now no longer survives

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<v Speaker 2>now is in collect Magazine. That's why I stayed with

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<v Speaker 2>it for so long. I was there for twenty something

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<v Speaker 2>years because I knew that once I left, it's folks

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<v Speaker 2>would shift, and I wanted to stay as long as

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<v Speaker 2>I could to provide a forum for people, for scholars

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<v Speaker 2>to publish material. And so I was very in tuned,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, with with who was buying and whatnot at

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<v Speaker 2>that point. And I've been here at Denna Museum and

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<v Speaker 2>Archive in Dena, mass for seven years this June actually,

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<v Speaker 2>and so I'm not I don't go to the auctions

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<v Speaker 2>like I used to, but I still do go I

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<v Speaker 2>still do attend antique shows and there's certainly still course

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<v Speaker 2>with furniture that I do find, you know, when I

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<v Speaker 2>go through the antique shows, particularly the New Hampshire and

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<v Speaker 2>TSE Dealer Show and the Manchester New Hampshire Shows and

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<v Speaker 2>the other shows that are up there. Deerfield et cetera.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's definitely still out there. There's definitely interest. People

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<v Speaker 2>say there's no interest in brownwood anymore. I don't. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't agree with that. I think that's just been a

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<v Speaker 2>market adjustment because things have gotten so high in price

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<v Speaker 2>that they the average person couldn't afford it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's correct es actually.

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<v Speaker 2>Younger people, because I'm sorry to interrupt you, but when

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<v Speaker 2>most people don't seriously collect, at least in the last

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<v Speaker 2>several decades until they get a little older, because they

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<v Speaker 2>have house to pay off, college to pay off themselves

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<v Speaker 2>and their kids, so they don't have the resources to

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<v Speaker 2>seriously buy something in the in the five digits plus category.

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<v Speaker 2>So a lot of smalls, we find a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>smalls are purchased. A lot of people start off with

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<v Speaker 2>smalls because that's what you can afford, and you can

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<v Speaker 2>add little accents with smalls and people. There was a

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<v Speaker 2>for a long time, a big push with modernism, and

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<v Speaker 2>that's now not as big as it was. For a while.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, the gray and the black and the white

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<v Speaker 2>and everything sleek and whatnot. Then there became more interest

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<v Speaker 2>in this was the term. It's basically maximalism instead of minimalism,

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<v Speaker 2>and so you know, lots of textures and colors and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, patterns in a space, and oftentimes there'll be

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<v Speaker 2>like an accent piece of a one nice really nice

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<v Speaker 2>piece and then smalls you know associated that because again

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<v Speaker 2>you first of all, it's a living comfortable the comfortable

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<v Speaker 2>living aesthetic that I think is also changed. Most people

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<v Speaker 2>don't live in formal houses like museum houses anymore. They

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<v Speaker 2>don't live in a formal side dining room for example,

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<v Speaker 2>the side or laid out. That's why silver isn't as

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<v Speaker 2>popular as it used to be, because people don't do

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<v Speaker 2>that anymore. China, forget about it. I mean, people just

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<v Speaker 2>can't give it away. You know that from I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>from you know, being the auctions, because people don't have

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<v Speaker 2>these multi course meals anymore. So culture is changing, and

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<v Speaker 2>as culture changes, the interests as far as what people

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<v Speaker 2>want to live with. And again, living in a formal

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<v Speaker 2>setting isn't what many people feel is comfortable. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>why this this shift towards more and also and then

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<v Speaker 2>you have the modernism, which is again cool and whatnot.

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<v Speaker 2>It's still you still see in the designer decorated books.

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<v Speaker 2>It's still chic, but the comfort aspect of the of

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<v Speaker 2>the textiles and the patterns and the and the stuff

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<v Speaker 2>is also now a part of it. And again I

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<v Speaker 2>think the accents play large part, especially with people who

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<v Speaker 2>are who are not able to spend a thousand or

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<v Speaker 2>more on something. Even though an accent piece can be

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<v Speaker 2>a small can be that much too. And when I

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<v Speaker 2>go to a show, I tend to buy buy things.

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<v Speaker 2>In fact, I saw Clayton Pennington of Manti Digestive last

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<v Speaker 2>year at the New Hampshire and Tip Show and he

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<v Speaker 2>and Lada No, it was actually in New York and January.

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<v Speaker 2>I hadn't been in there five years, but I decide, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>so that should go down. And I saw Clayton and

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<v Speaker 2>Leda Lida Salls Colin. She's amazing, she's in her nineties,

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<v Speaker 2>God bless her. And they were like, oh, we should

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<v Speaker 2>do an article on you. And you know, you know

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<v Speaker 2>what's you collect. It's like I wouldn't say I'm a collector, certainly.

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<v Speaker 2>I I just it's things that I enjoy. So it's

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<v Speaker 2>nothing even't expensive at all, trust me. But there are

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<v Speaker 2>things that I enjoy it like smalls And when I

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<v Speaker 2>go to the antique shows show I can afford things

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<v Speaker 2>that I'll buy things that are just small, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>like a little a little miniature bench or you know, silver,

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<v Speaker 2>a pewter shoe or just entiniable things that are just

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<v Speaker 2>from little accents because they make me happy. And that's

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<v Speaker 2>I think the important thing is is you want to

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<v Speaker 2>look at something and you want to make you happy.

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<v Speaker 2>And you should never buy for investment, you know, That's right,

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<v Speaker 2>that's like buying one oh one. Do not buy for investment,

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<v Speaker 2>as you guilt. You know what's going to happen in

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<v Speaker 2>the market, you don't know how interest are going to change,

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<v Speaker 2>and so buy what you love, what.

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<v Speaker 1>You love because you're living with it, live with it exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what I've told people many times over the years

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<v Speaker 1>when they ask what should I invest in? You know,

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<v Speaker 1>because you know, we all, as they say, as dealers,

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<v Speaker 1>we all live with our mistakes to that, as they say,

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<v Speaker 1>but yeah, I think you know, the trend are are

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<v Speaker 1>funny when you think about him, But I remember, you

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<v Speaker 1>know you think about I know you're a furniture lover.

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<v Speaker 1>You love a nice period American furniture and.

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<v Speaker 2>Me but I appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, like you think of like Garter Townsend or

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<v Speaker 1>a really nice Boston Peace, you know, I mean, they're

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<v Speaker 1>They're just wonderful, and you would hope that market. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember that Albert Sach bid for the Brown I want

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<v Speaker 1>to say the Brown Secretary at twelve million dollars and

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<v Speaker 1>at the time it was a young couple that bought that.

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<v Speaker 1>You know those I don't think that would happen today, and.

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<v Speaker 2>I I it would be. It would be unusual for

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<v Speaker 2>that way. And Ashuly, my cousin, Alan Reid made the reproduction.

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<v Speaker 1>For the I didn't know he was your cousin. I've

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<v Speaker 1>known Alan since I was a kid. Alan is awesome. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I did a podcast with him.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's great, good, good good. He's a great guy,

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<v Speaker 2>so talented. He made the copy for the that's right.

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<v Speaker 2>Family could still have the have it. But you bring

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<v Speaker 2>up an interesting design point is that to me, classic

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<v Speaker 2>design is classic design. It doesn't matter when it was made.

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<v Speaker 2>So it can be from the goddard in towns in time,

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<v Speaker 2>it can be from the nineteen sixties. If it's great design,

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<v Speaker 2>it's great design, and they work together. And that's what

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<v Speaker 2>people are doing more too. They're meshing time periods as

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<v Speaker 2>long as the design works, it doesn't matter when it

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<v Speaker 2>was made. So that's why you have fun when you collect.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, you can buy from different time periods as

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<v Speaker 2>long as they work together. Have fun with it. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't have to follow this this guide of you

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<v Speaker 2>know what am I collecting? Am I doing it the

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<v Speaker 2>right way? Follow your gut, follow your heart, and if

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<v Speaker 2>it's something sings to you, then bam. You know that's

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<v Speaker 2>the way to go. And if I could collect anything seriously,

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<v Speaker 2>if I win the lottery, I certainly will. It would

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<v Speaker 2>be actually Salem in Massachusetts from the seventeen seventies ish

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<v Speaker 2>time period, because you have that Newport gracefulman, but it's

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<v Speaker 2>even better, and the wood is so dense and heavy

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<v Speaker 2>and beautiful mahogany, and there's just that gorgeous line that

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<v Speaker 2>Hogarth curve, you know, and the and the and the

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<v Speaker 2>carving of the I mean the shaping of uh no, no,

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<v Speaker 2>no McIntyre.

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<v Speaker 3>Actually McIntyre's a little later years later, but this is

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<v Speaker 3>uh this is smack dab in the middle of you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the the eighteenth century, and it's just such a little

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<v Speaker 3>later mid to late eighteenth century.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just a gorgeous, but it's it's simple. It's simple beauty,

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<v Speaker 2>just like Hogarth. That's it, you know, the simple beauty.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's that's that's what you That's what I look for,

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<v Speaker 2>is just and that's what I appreciate when I go

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<v Speaker 2>to a museum or I go to Manchie show and

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<v Speaker 2>draw out of that simple beauty. And I like funky

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<v Speaker 2>things too, you know. But it's again, classic design is

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<v Speaker 2>classic design doesn't matter what time. Look a look at fashion.

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<v Speaker 2>Women's fashion for example, you know they they cycle back around,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the hemlines or whatever it is, even men's ties,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the thin the thing that's I mean just

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<v Speaker 2>just nothing's new. It just kind of gets added on.

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<v Speaker 2>What is I think Steve Jobs, although he was not

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<v Speaker 2>the first one to say this, basically said, you know

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<v Speaker 2>how he came. You know why he was successful is

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<v Speaker 2>he took other people's ideas and made them better.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Well, it's kind of funny you think about what

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<v Speaker 1>we talked earlier about sort of the Federal era designs.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, Hepa White, the Chippendale and all that. How

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<v Speaker 1>they shere it and how it seemed like every twenty

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<v Speaker 1>years it be a revival of that as you go along.

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<v Speaker 1>You used to be much more involved in auctions than

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<v Speaker 1>you are these days. But I wanted to ask you

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<v Speaker 1>since you and I have talked. We had this little

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<v Speaker 1>thing called the pandemic, and that kind of changed everything

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<v Speaker 1>for a while. I remember I I didn't know what

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<v Speaker 1>I was going to do when that first happened. I

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<v Speaker 1>knew I couldn't do appraisals anymore. I couldn't, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>be involved in auctions anymore for a while. But I

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<v Speaker 1>did a very interesting podcast with three different auction companies

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<v Speaker 1>during the pandemic, and I remember Wes. I'm trying to

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<v Speaker 1>think of Wes, and yes, Wes Cowen said a collector

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<v Speaker 1>has to collect, they'll figure it out. And I really

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<v Speaker 1>thought that was really a great saying because they did.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, look at the group shops when they started

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<v Speaker 1>opening up. They were flooded with people buying. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>everyone that I knew that owned a group shop was

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<v Speaker 1>doing really well. Eventually auctions came back, and what I

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<v Speaker 1>thought was going to happen was I thought it would

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<v Speaker 1>be like a dam breaking, like they'd be so much

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<v Speaker 1>flooded into the market, and it kind of happened that

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<v Speaker 1>it would change everything. I look at my friend John McGinnis,

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<v Speaker 1>for instance, and he's still backed up, you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>a year a worth of merchandise here and there and

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<v Speaker 1>all over the place, ready to sell all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're kind of force feeding. I had a conversation

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<v Speaker 1>with John, I don't know, not that long ago, and

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<v Speaker 1>he said, buyers, buyers is what I need. I need

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<v Speaker 1>buyers get me buyers, not sellers. So right, right right,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, but we made it through the pandemic. We're

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<v Speaker 1>still going things. It depends on what it is. Some

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<v Speaker 1>things seem to be holding really well. Some things, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a hit or miss. I think you could have

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<v Speaker 1>something in three different auctions and get three different extremes.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, these things are possible.

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<v Speaker 2>So so much of it is location, location, location, location.

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<v Speaker 2>Who where you sell a collection, And oftentimes collections have

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of material and some things are going to

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<v Speaker 2>do better in one place and other things would have

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<v Speaker 2>done better had they gone somewhere else. But a family

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<v Speaker 2>just wants to, you know, move along, so everything goes

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<v Speaker 2>to one location and that that's always been an issue.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you have other things like the Scrimshaw issues,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the which have unfortunately impacted, you know, antis

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<v Speaker 2>dealers and collectors. I mean, think of people who.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's talk a little bit expand on that a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>There was the Endangered Species Act of nineteen seventy three,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's been really heavily enforced and now you need

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<v Speaker 1>a certificate of some kind right when you go to

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<v Speaker 1>South I believe so, yeah, yeah, which is costly.

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<v Speaker 2>It's costly, and also a lot of historic objects have

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<v Speaker 2>been have been destroyed because of it. And unfortunately I

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<v Speaker 2>actually spoke at the State House here in Boston with

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<v Speaker 2>other people in the field when there were bills in

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<v Speaker 2>Massachusetts related to in Dager Species Act. And I'm all

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<v Speaker 2>for saving elephants me too, but you can't the things

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<v Speaker 2>that were made hundreds of years ago. You can't put

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<v Speaker 2>those in the same pot as things that are being

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<v Speaker 2>done today, being poached and killed for their testimony. That's yes,

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<v Speaker 2>of course they back then as well, but it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>you can't put them in the same basket. And of

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<v Speaker 2>course we want bills that save the elephants and that

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<v Speaker 2>prevent you know, poaching and and all these horrible things

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<v Speaker 2>that are happening now. But it doesn't mean you punish

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<v Speaker 2>the artifacts and the history. And there's a great miniature

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<v Speaker 2>portrait miniature sorry, somebody's rimming bell of John Ravage by

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<v Speaker 2>John Ravage, I believe, of George Washington on Ivory. So

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<v Speaker 2>you can destroy that because it's on Ivory. I mean, seriously,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's part of history. It's just crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>So are these things, like you're saying, they're not like

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<v Speaker 1>being destroyed destroyed? Are they?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, well, some are being some from what I understand,

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<v Speaker 2>are being a disposed of or seized and or seized. Uh.

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<v Speaker 2>And so it's it is a serious issue with antiques,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because so and it's difficult to tell whether

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<v Speaker 2>something is Elphant Ivory or you know, if it's you know,

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<v Speaker 2>uh lawrus Tusk or whatnot. If it's if it's the truth,

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<v Speaker 2>you can tell the difference.

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<v Speaker 1>But well, there's also the I R S as far

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<v Speaker 1>as fair market and as far as a state tax purposes.

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<v Speaker 1>If you have, say Asian Ivory, it's not even you know,

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<v Speaker 1>whenever it's made, you have to appraise it as if

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<v Speaker 1>you could sell it. When you're appraising for the I

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<v Speaker 1>R S. Right, right, But even though you can't sell it,

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00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:34.080
<v Speaker 1>you have to appraise it. As if you can. So, yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a tough it's a tough situation.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>When I come across people that say what do I

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<v Speaker 1>do with this? I say, well you can. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>even know if you can donate it. I I've been

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00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:45.000
<v Speaker 1>telling people if they could, but I don't even know

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<v Speaker 1>if that's if that's another issue that I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Not I can't give you an answer. We haven't had

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00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.279
<v Speaker 2>that issue at the museum, so I can't. I can't.

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<v Speaker 2>If somebody offers us something, then we have to look

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<v Speaker 2>into that. But I don't know. Actually, what's it? What

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00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:03.200
<v Speaker 2>are amusing collections? Hopefully they want be damaged. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's it's a changing you know, it's always a

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00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:10.440
<v Speaker 2>changing landscape. It's just and again that's the reason why

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00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:13.440
<v Speaker 2>you buy what you love and don't buy for investment. Yeah,

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00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:16.000
<v Speaker 2>so you live with it and you appreciate it, and

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<v Speaker 2>you love what you have and don't plan to you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll sell this is going to be my retirement fund,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'll sell it, you know, twenty years down the road,

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<v Speaker 2>because you never know what's what the interests are going

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<v Speaker 2>to be, or what the laws are going to be,

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00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, for for so that's why it's really critical

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00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:32.000
<v Speaker 2>to have that your heart sing. And if your heart

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't sing when you see things, and you shouldn't be collecting.

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<v Speaker 2>But as you pointed out, with the pandemic, true collectors,

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<v Speaker 2>they're always looking for you know, it's it's a it's

326
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<v Speaker 2>a it's a it's a need, it's a it's a session,

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00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:51.279
<v Speaker 2>it's a per session. And when I worked with Wayne

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<v Speaker 2>Pride Antiques, this is back early in the nineties, No,

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<v Speaker 2>mid nineties, I can't remember at this point, yeah, late nineties,

330
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<v Speaker 2>and he was a consummate. He couldn't He just had

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<v Speaker 2>to sell things. He couldn't hold on to anything. He

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00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.039
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to. He first of all, he didn't want

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00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:15.000
<v Speaker 2>to deny his clients, his best clients. The best stop

334
00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:19.039
<v Speaker 2>by holding himself. He loves selling things, so he I

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00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:22.079
<v Speaker 2>remember one story he told me. He was He was

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<v Speaker 2>sitting back in his chair over his desk, his feet

337
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<v Speaker 2>up on the desk, saying, Hey, Johanna, I finally got

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<v Speaker 2>this chair back. I said, when I was he said,

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<v Speaker 2>when I was twelve years old, I sold this Windsor chair.

340
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:33.640
<v Speaker 2>Is the best windsor I had ever seen. And his

341
00:18:33.680 --> 00:18:36.119
<v Speaker 2>specialty was Windsor's in antack of baskets blocked on chest,

342
00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:39.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, my Cahoun paintings, et cetera. And he said,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the best Windsor chair. And I promised myself,

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<v Speaker 2>if I ever got it back, this is the one

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<v Speaker 2>thing I would keep. The next day he was sold.

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<v Speaker 2>Couldn't he couldn't sell. He could have not sell. So

347
00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:56.039
<v Speaker 2>that was his passion. He loved collecting, so you know,

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00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.240
<v Speaker 2>and sell and selling, and you know he had he

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00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.839
<v Speaker 2>had the collectors loved to love to collect, and so

350
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:04.319
<v Speaker 2>it was that's what that's what you know, that's why

351
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:06.400
<v Speaker 2>people go into the business. They love the material and

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00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:09.839
<v Speaker 2>they love to love to sell, and you know, place

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<v Speaker 2>place things in the right places, right locations.

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<v Speaker 1>So anyway, well I remember he he bought uh the

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<v Speaker 1>at the Bartlet auction that I had in nineteen eighty nine.

356
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<v Speaker 1>He bought the apothecary Chess and I had. What I

357
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:25.839
<v Speaker 1>did was I had to move that thing. It was

358
00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:29.319
<v Speaker 1>all It was full of the drugs, original all the

359
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:34.119
<v Speaker 1>way through, including a whole drawer full of lead pills

360
00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:37.839
<v Speaker 1>that they used to prescribe. So I had all the

361
00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:40.200
<v Speaker 1>I had all the drugs. I had one of my

362
00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:44.559
<v Speaker 1>helpers at the time take each one out, label it

363
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<v Speaker 1>in a bag and put everything in a bag. So

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00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.160
<v Speaker 1>we had all these you know, like I don't know

365
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<v Speaker 1>how many drawers there were. There was like fifty sixty drawers,

366
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<v Speaker 1>maybe even more.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and Wayne, Wayne bought that at the time, and

369
00:19:57.680 --> 00:20:01.160
<v Speaker 1>that was that was just a beautiful piece. And for

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<v Speaker 1>some reason the State of New Hampshire didn't want it

371
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<v Speaker 1>when they bought the other pieces. But yeah, that was

372
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<v Speaker 1>that was incredible. But I remember dealing dealing. That was

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<v Speaker 1>the only time. I mean I had talked to Wayne

374
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<v Speaker 1>before different times, but that was like the first one

375
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<v Speaker 1>on one dealing I had on him directly with that,

376
00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:21.960
<v Speaker 1>and he was I just said, oh my god, this

377
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<v Speaker 1>guy's funny. He's said character.

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00:20:24.799 --> 00:20:29.359
<v Speaker 2>He really is he he I should say, was he? Uh?

379
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:32.599
<v Speaker 2>He was. His mind was like a steel trap. He

380
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:37.799
<v Speaker 2>had like the memory every deal, every person, every contact,

381
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<v Speaker 2>every whatever. It was there yead his great eyes where

382
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:44.799
<v Speaker 2>he would just remember every object word that he'd seen

383
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:48.880
<v Speaker 2>it before, and you know, is the same way. And

384
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.920
<v Speaker 2>he really knew his stuff and he was a really

385
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<v Speaker 2>actually most people don't realize that he was very giving, caring, funny, uh,

386
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:04.599
<v Speaker 2>generous person, you know to those who you know worked

387
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:08.000
<v Speaker 2>with him, and you know if he didn't show that,

388
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:10.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, publicly in the same way. So but he did.

389
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:12.039
<v Speaker 2>He had a great sense of humor.

390
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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that's great, and I think that's a that's

391
00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:20.519
<v Speaker 1>that's funny. I used to say that I remember things,

392
00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:23.359
<v Speaker 1>not names. Like if I would see a person and

393
00:21:23.400 --> 00:21:25.000
<v Speaker 1>they would have me in their house, I remember where

394
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:28.000
<v Speaker 1>they had as Simon Willard clock over their mantle or

395
00:21:28.039 --> 00:21:30.599
<v Speaker 1>whatever it was. You know, like I remember those type

396
00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:34.480
<v Speaker 1>of things, and when I run into them again, I'd say, oh, hey,

397
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:37.079
<v Speaker 1>do you still have that clock? But I couldn't remember

398
00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:39.920
<v Speaker 1>their name, so that that didn't help.

399
00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I'm there with you.

400
00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:48.720
<v Speaker 1>It's true when we see something exciting, you know. I mean,

401
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:50.960
<v Speaker 1>here's the thing we can talk about again.

402
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:52.759
<v Speaker 2>You know.

403
00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:56.119
<v Speaker 1>The appreciation that I have and I know you have

404
00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.640
<v Speaker 1>tenfold of what I have, is how one fall these

405
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:03.960
<v Speaker 1>pieces of furniture were made with the tools that they

406
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:07.000
<v Speaker 1>had to make them with, and the lighting and everything

407
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:10.480
<v Speaker 1>you can imagine, and the apprentices working and just how

408
00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:13.880
<v Speaker 1>they made such perfection on some of these pieces, and

409
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:16.720
<v Speaker 1>it's they're like a piece of artwork. Some of these

410
00:22:16.759 --> 00:22:21.519
<v Speaker 1>pieces of furniture and and the drawers still work perfectly,

411
00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:23.079
<v Speaker 1>and you know, I mean, it's just amazing. And I

412
00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:26.759
<v Speaker 1>remember your cousin Alan Breed told me when he was

413
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:30.200
<v Speaker 1>making that copy that there were some things he just

414
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:32.880
<v Speaker 1>couldn't understand how they could have done with the tools

415
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:34.839
<v Speaker 1>they had at the time. You know, there were all

416
00:22:34.839 --> 00:22:38.519
<v Speaker 1>these little trick things and you know that trick doors

417
00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:41.000
<v Speaker 1>are something that you know, he just said, it was

418
00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:42.400
<v Speaker 1>just the watches underneath.

419
00:22:42.400 --> 00:22:46.680
<v Speaker 2>You have to trust something in the whole center. Yeah, yeah,

420
00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:50.480
<v Speaker 2>it's and the amazing thing about it is that they

421
00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:53.440
<v Speaker 2>weren't taking their time. I mean they had to make

422
00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:57.319
<v Speaker 2>money too, so they were I mean they had you know, assembly,

423
00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:00.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, even though it was different from to the

424
00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:03.559
<v Speaker 2>fancy chairs and whatnot, where things literally are piece piece

425
00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:07.640
<v Speaker 2>piece pieces. Uh then severally lines later on, but even

426
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:09.799
<v Speaker 2>in a cabinet jop you'd have something to make dovetails

427
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.160
<v Speaker 2>blah blah blah. But they were they weren't just you

428
00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:16.000
<v Speaker 2>know there. In fact, Alan he uh, I'm writing a

429
00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:18.880
<v Speaker 2>conversation with him once where he had a several let's say,

430
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:25.400
<v Speaker 2>six uh Portsmouth games chair type crest to carve to recreate,

431
00:23:25.799 --> 00:23:27.839
<v Speaker 2>and he said the first one, you know, took he

432
00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:29.640
<v Speaker 2>just took a bit for him to kind of get

433
00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:31.880
<v Speaker 2>into the groove. But then you know, once he started

434
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:35.079
<v Speaker 2>moving along, he just knocked them out, you know, because

435
00:23:35.119 --> 00:23:37.880
<v Speaker 2>you got into a rhythm and you again, you were

436
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:39.839
<v Speaker 2>on the clock. You wanted to make money. So even

437
00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:43.880
<v Speaker 2>though yes, these things still survive, and yes it's amazing

438
00:23:43.960 --> 00:23:46.119
<v Speaker 2>and how some of them were made, but they were

439
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:49.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, they weren't like being ar teeths. They were

440
00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:51.720
<v Speaker 2>they were doing the job and that had to be done.

441
00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:56.240
<v Speaker 2>And but there was craftsmanship, you know, versus just you know,

442
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:58.960
<v Speaker 2>whipping it together and and you know, rid of here

443
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:00.640
<v Speaker 2>out of the next one. There was definitely a craft

444
00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:03.640
<v Speaker 2>that ship involved. As it was your reputation too, you

445
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:08.559
<v Speaker 2>want that. I was actually, there's a there's a lost

446
00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:12.319
<v Speaker 2>art books. I think it is not to plug somebody's business,

447
00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:20.559
<v Speaker 2>but he just re or just just reproduced h French

448
00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:27.519
<v Speaker 2>seventeenth or eighteen eighteenth century books on tools and workmanship.

449
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:31.079
<v Speaker 2>And if I was still in that field in the

450
00:24:31.119 --> 00:24:33.160
<v Speaker 2>same way, I would buy it in a heartbeat, because

451
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:36.279
<v Speaker 2>it's it's it's been translated also, so it's not in

452
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.279
<v Speaker 2>the original obviously the original French version. But at that

453
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:42.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean I look at my bookcase. I mean in

454
00:24:42.839 --> 00:24:46.720
<v Speaker 2>my bookcase is at home, and that's right, that's where

455
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:49.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, I put the so much focuses collecting these

456
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:50.279
<v Speaker 2>great books of the years.

457
00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:54.440
<v Speaker 1>But you know, and how how did the designs a

458
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.039
<v Speaker 1>lot of them originate. You think of like apple White

459
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:02.240
<v Speaker 1>or Sherat and you know, and and England, and yet

460
00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:06.440
<v Speaker 1>the design comes over to America all in about the

461
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:09.400
<v Speaker 1>same time. And was that through publications?

462
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:13.799
<v Speaker 2>It was through publications, It was from imported furniture and

463
00:25:13.839 --> 00:25:17.359
<v Speaker 2>also from craftsmen. All the craftsmen came up over so

464
00:25:17.400 --> 00:25:20.960
<v Speaker 2>they they bring their knowledge and their skills. Actually, where

465
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:23.640
<v Speaker 2>I am now, the Dead Museum in Arca, we have

466
00:25:24.640 --> 00:25:30.200
<v Speaker 2>furniture from the seventeenth century sixteen thirties time period, and

467
00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:36.799
<v Speaker 2>it's made. It's attributed to a craftsman who was in

468
00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:40.839
<v Speaker 2>England and trained there and about ten miles away from

469
00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:46.519
<v Speaker 2>where he lived. His name is John Thurston. There was

470
00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:50.160
<v Speaker 2>a pulpit and carvings that match what's on the chair,

471
00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:52.680
<v Speaker 2>for example, And Bob Saint George Robert St. George was

472
00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:54.799
<v Speaker 2>the first one to write about this, or an earlier

473
00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:57.200
<v Speaker 2>person to write about this in his book, his book

474
00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:02.799
<v Speaker 2>on the seventieth century Craft. And this is the oldest

475
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.160
<v Speaker 2>date of piece of furniture in America, so it's an

476
00:26:05.160 --> 00:26:08.400
<v Speaker 2>extraordinary piece. It's a great chair, and they are earlier

477
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:10.440
<v Speaker 2>pieces made done in Plymouth, but this is the oldest

478
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:14.680
<v Speaker 2>stated piece of sixteen fifty two. But you can see,

479
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:16.400
<v Speaker 2>you know his car. But he came over, he brought,

480
00:26:16.599 --> 00:26:19.759
<v Speaker 2>he brought what he knew in England and you know,

481
00:26:20.119 --> 00:26:22.960
<v Speaker 2>made the furniture in the same manner as he made

482
00:26:23.039 --> 00:26:25.440
<v Speaker 2>in England. Then he trained another fellow who came over

483
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.279
<v Speaker 2>at a younger age at about fourteen. His name was

484
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:31.400
<v Speaker 2>John Houghton, and that you can see the similar similarities.

485
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:34.680
<v Speaker 2>We have a John Thurston, he was given the master

486
00:26:34.759 --> 00:26:37.240
<v Speaker 2>as they were called at the time. We have that chair,

487
00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:39.599
<v Speaker 2>the great chair, and we have a chest that we

488
00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:46.680
<v Speaker 2>bought actually at some other piece in twenty nineteen that's

489
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:50.200
<v Speaker 2>tribute to him. And then we have a matching chest,

490
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:52.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, with three panel carb chest that's made by

491
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:58.160
<v Speaker 2>the fellow, his apprentice whom he trained here, John Houghton,

492
00:26:58.720 --> 00:27:01.000
<v Speaker 2>that was actually owned by the Fairbanks family and the

493
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:03.279
<v Speaker 2>Fairbanks house here in Denham is the oldest timber frame

494
00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:07.480
<v Speaker 2>house in North America. It's extraordinary, so not just much

495
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:11.319
<v Speaker 2>to the US, US and Canada. And then he Houghton

496
00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:14.240
<v Speaker 2>also made again the Apprentice, also made a matching or

497
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:16.480
<v Speaker 2>a great chair that has the same laws engine, the

498
00:27:16.519 --> 00:27:19.799
<v Speaker 2>back panel which is the diamond shaped, similar shaped crest,

499
00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:22.599
<v Speaker 2>et cetera, et cetera, and the three panel chests are

500
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.200
<v Speaker 2>almost identical even the way they're made, with the with

501
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:31.079
<v Speaker 2>the interlacing bottom boards. And so as far as I know,

502
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:33.400
<v Speaker 2>we're the only museum that has from the seventieth century

503
00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:36.279
<v Speaker 2>matching Master Apprentice forms. It's really very cool. But the

504
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:41.400
<v Speaker 2>point is, yeah, it was right. And Thurston who was

505
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:44.119
<v Speaker 2>again the Master, also was one of the builders of

506
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:46.839
<v Speaker 2>the Fairbanks House and he also built the first school

507
00:27:46.920 --> 00:27:52.400
<v Speaker 2>and meeting house. And Denham is the first community in

508
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:58.640
<v Speaker 2>the colonies lease in England to where the public voted

509
00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:02.039
<v Speaker 2>for a tax supported public school. So that's very cool

510
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:05.400
<v Speaker 2>in the sixteen forties. But anyway, so he was very

511
00:28:05.440 --> 00:28:06.880
<v Speaker 2>involved in the town. But the point being back to

512
00:28:06.920 --> 00:28:09.799
<v Speaker 2>your question, he came over from England and we can

513
00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:12.400
<v Speaker 2>trace exactly you know where he we know where he lived.

514
00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:14.519
<v Speaker 2>But then with then within ten miles, there's this carving

515
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:17.319
<v Speaker 2>that matches what's on the chair, and so that's that's

516
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:22.279
<v Speaker 2>that's the fastest way that the styles would get you know, introduced,

517
00:28:22.640 --> 00:28:24.920
<v Speaker 2>and not just in the seventeenth century. That continues, you know,

518
00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:28.400
<v Speaker 2>through the eighteenth century, et cetera. On. But again, once

519
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:30.319
<v Speaker 2>you get the pattern books like the Happo Whites and

520
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:34.440
<v Speaker 2>Shared Heppo White, Charity's pattern Books, Charity and Happle Whites books,

521
00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:37.880
<v Speaker 2>that's also you know, that's where you get more of

522
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:42.720
<v Speaker 2>a extended similarities because they're following. Chippendale's book wasn't as

523
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:47.240
<v Speaker 2>in earlier in the eighteenth century, it wasn't as distributed

524
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:49.839
<v Speaker 2>as widely, and there are other pattern books as well.

525
00:28:49.880 --> 00:28:51.720
<v Speaker 2>This was not the only one. Chipendale was not the

526
00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:56.680
<v Speaker 2>only one in eighteenth century. Well, but you also you

527
00:28:56.720 --> 00:28:59.480
<v Speaker 2>also have cabinet makers producing their own books and their

528
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:02.000
<v Speaker 2>own price thing and whatnot. Winter Tour has some examples

529
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:02.240
<v Speaker 2>of that.

530
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.079
<v Speaker 1>For example, Wow, yeah, what a great museum that is.

531
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:08.599
<v Speaker 2>So I was lucky to go there, really was. It was.

532
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:11.880
<v Speaker 2>It was shop and we at that point we were

533
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:13.880
<v Speaker 2>able to go in and students on our own and

534
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:15.799
<v Speaker 2>we'd go to the collection and we could handle things

535
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.759
<v Speaker 2>and it was just it was it was, it was unreal.

536
00:29:20.119 --> 00:29:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Actually went Frank Leevey was leave Antiques, was a year

537
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:26.279
<v Speaker 2>behind me, and he and I would go into the

538
00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:29.960
<v Speaker 2>question together and uh we'd take opposite views of something.

539
00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:33.079
<v Speaker 2>I'd say it's right and he'd say it's wrong, and

540
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:34.440
<v Speaker 2>so we'd try to prove each other.

541
00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:36.920
<v Speaker 1>It was that sounds fun.

542
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:39.720
<v Speaker 2>It was a lot of fun. And Bob and Bob Trent,

543
00:29:39.799 --> 00:29:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Robert Trent was there at the time, and he's genius,

544
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:45.240
<v Speaker 2>a genius, and uh so it was really wonderful to

545
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.920
<v Speaker 2>go through and learn from from Bob as well.

546
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:52.119
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that's the thing about learning and passing down

547
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:55.400
<v Speaker 1>all that and I, you know, write everything's online now.

548
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:00.640
<v Speaker 1>It's so you know, I tell people learn, go talk

549
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:02.599
<v Speaker 1>to people if you can, you know, right.

550
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:05.160
<v Speaker 2>And people people, you know, it's it's it is a concern,

551
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:09.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, who's who's learning you know, for the next generation,

552
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.119
<v Speaker 2>who's teaching for the next generation? Where are people learning information?

553
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:14.799
<v Speaker 2>I mean, what are to of course still still there.

554
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:16.160
<v Speaker 2>When I was there, I asked such a classes and

555
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:20.680
<v Speaker 2>the conservation departments that I could, you know, see that

556
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:22.359
<v Speaker 2>side of it. And then when I was at Christie's

557
00:30:22.359 --> 00:30:24.799
<v Speaker 2>I'd hang out with Alan Miller, the cabinet maker, and

558
00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:26.720
<v Speaker 2>just you know, he'd show me about tool marks and

559
00:30:26.720 --> 00:30:30.279
<v Speaker 2>we talk about you know, all sorts of things that

560
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:32.920
<v Speaker 2>we'd see there. So uh, I mean you have to ask.

561
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.480
<v Speaker 2>You need mentors, you know, going through life, whatever you

562
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:39.839
<v Speaker 2>whatever you do, having people that you can trust and

563
00:30:39.839 --> 00:30:42.519
<v Speaker 2>that want to teach you and that are and want

564
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:44.640
<v Speaker 2>to share so that others learn. I mean there's some

565
00:30:44.640 --> 00:30:45.799
<v Speaker 2>people that are like, oh, no, I'm not going to

566
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:46.839
<v Speaker 2>tell you anything. That's right.

567
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:50.200
<v Speaker 1>They think that their knowledge is power and the.

568
00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Best, right, the best, uh, the best thing you can

569
00:30:54.039 --> 00:30:57.759
<v Speaker 2>do is to share, because that's how things, that's how things,

570
00:30:57.759 --> 00:30:59.279
<v Speaker 2>that's how you learn things. And I look at the

571
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:02.960
<v Speaker 2>early books Vincent Lockwood and Wallace Nun and people will

572
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:05.359
<v Speaker 2>go oh pooh, pooh pooh. No, somebody had to be

573
00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:08.519
<v Speaker 2>out there first, yeah, you know, and look at the

574
00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:12.559
<v Speaker 2>contributions they made and then others built on that, you know,

575
00:31:12.599 --> 00:31:15.640
<v Speaker 2>and so it has has has been proven and others

576
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:17.640
<v Speaker 2>are like, yeah, what a great example. You know, so

577
00:31:19.200 --> 00:31:23.319
<v Speaker 2>it's appreciating. But again it's that knowledge and uh, you know,

578
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:27.480
<v Speaker 2>having people who really know what they're looking at it. Yeah, yeah,

579
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I hope you hope it continues.

580
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:32.240
<v Speaker 1>I know, I wish you could download someone's brain sometimes and.

581
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:34.799
<v Speaker 2>Some of that I think about several people, you know,

582
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:36.119
<v Speaker 2>a number of people. I know. It's like I wish

583
00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.240
<v Speaker 2>there was like like a download button. Yeah, you know,

584
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:42.960
<v Speaker 2>it's really great. Yeah.

585
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:46.960
<v Speaker 1>So getting back to the influences, it just made me

586
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:50.720
<v Speaker 1>think of someone in particular. And I'm wondering if you

587
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:53.519
<v Speaker 1>even know the answer to this question. But you think

588
00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:57.640
<v Speaker 1>of like an American eighteenth century cabinet maker that had

589
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:00.720
<v Speaker 1>his own, you know, design, And I think of Duncan

590
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:04.079
<v Speaker 1>Fife for instance, And I wonder if Duncan Fife ever

591
00:32:04.279 --> 00:32:09.119
<v Speaker 1>influenced anyone in England to you know, design like him,

592
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:11.359
<v Speaker 1>because you do see the well a lot of times

593
00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:16.160
<v Speaker 1>they're they're you know, George the third uh they call him,

594
00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:19.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, a double pedestal bait tables that do have

595
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:23.519
<v Speaker 1>a similarity to Duncan Fife's design. But but I don't know,

596
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:24.920
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if that ever went that.

597
00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:28.680
<v Speaker 2>Way, I would I would think more came over here.

598
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:32.079
<v Speaker 2>But again I'm not a five expert, so I wouldn't

599
00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:35.160
<v Speaker 2>dare to make a proclamation in one way or the other.

600
00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:37.480
<v Speaker 2>But I would I would tend to think that. Uh,

601
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:42.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean on Lanue also, I mean he was from

602
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.000
<v Speaker 2>the French perspective. He was also bringing designer over here.

603
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:48.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah that I I as far as Fife. I mean

604
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:50.359
<v Speaker 2>I know I know his work, but I wouldn't be

605
00:32:50.400 --> 00:32:54.640
<v Speaker 2>able to I don't know historically transfer and that's a

606
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:56.839
<v Speaker 2>time that's a little later than my specialty. And it's

607
00:32:56.839 --> 00:33:00.440
<v Speaker 2>also in New York, which again isn't mine Wick but

608
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:03.279
<v Speaker 2>uh yeah, I mean the whole transfer and sharing of

609
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:06.759
<v Speaker 2>information and people. I actually taught a class out the

610
00:33:06.799 --> 00:33:11.119
<v Speaker 2>Rizzy Road Doland School of Design years ago and I

611
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:14.240
<v Speaker 2>was I was Cheryl Robertson who was teaching the class

612
00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:17.559
<v Speaker 2>would take me sabbatical chase, but I go in for her.

613
00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:19.799
<v Speaker 2>So it was a history for Ensure class. And so

614
00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:21.720
<v Speaker 2>you start with the Egypt Police. That's where I started

615
00:33:21.880 --> 00:33:25.839
<v Speaker 2>and went you know to today and a lot to cover,

616
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:29.720
<v Speaker 2>no question, and uh these were these these students again

617
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:33.599
<v Speaker 2>no offense to students whosy, but uh, they had an attitude.

618
00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:37.000
<v Speaker 2>It was a required course and they they felt that

619
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:39.319
<v Speaker 2>they knew everything and they just wanted to but they

620
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:43.200
<v Speaker 2>wanted to make And so as I do, las to

621
00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:45.359
<v Speaker 2>teach also at the Boston Architicial Center which is now

622
00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:49.400
<v Speaker 2>the Boston College, and that was different. Those were people

623
00:33:49.400 --> 00:33:51.519
<v Speaker 2>who wanted to take the class. It was, you know,

624
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:55.000
<v Speaker 2>after ed whatever that's called actor, you know, continuing it,

625
00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:56.640
<v Speaker 2>and so they wanted to be there. So it was

626
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:58.599
<v Speaker 2>a quite different. But I mean, so i'd go around,

627
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:01.720
<v Speaker 2>I'd ask you know what, what what are your interests?

628
00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:02.799
<v Speaker 2>What do you want to get out of the class,

629
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:05.240
<v Speaker 2>blah blah, and they were all like, you know, they

630
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:09.079
<v Speaker 2>have the hats halfway down and uh, I said, well,

631
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:11.440
<v Speaker 2>I only care you want one kid said a students said, well,

632
00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:14.079
<v Speaker 2>I only care about, you know, contemporary stuff. I said, well,

633
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.000
<v Speaker 2>we're getting to monitoring contemporary the last two classes, and

634
00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.679
<v Speaker 2>before that you'll get an be able to see the

635
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:21.719
<v Speaker 2>context of where that came from, it that or center.

636
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:24.760
<v Speaker 2>He's like, well, I don't care about modern contemporary. And

637
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:26.440
<v Speaker 2>I said, well, those are the last two class and

638
00:34:26.440 --> 00:34:28.679
<v Speaker 2>I kind of repeated myself and he said and he

639
00:34:28.719 --> 00:34:30.280
<v Speaker 2>said to me, well, then those are the only classes

640
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:32.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to come to. And I said, and I said,

641
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:36.920
<v Speaker 2>then you're going to fail the course next But it

642
00:34:36.960 --> 00:34:39.440
<v Speaker 2>was that attitude of I don't need to know anything else,

643
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:42.679
<v Speaker 2>which is total. I mean, I hope learned since then

644
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:46.119
<v Speaker 2>that context within anything, regardless of what you're talking about,

645
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:50.039
<v Speaker 2>is critical to understanding and if you're going to look

646
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:53.320
<v Speaker 2>at again design, what came before it. It's like anything.

647
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:55.719
<v Speaker 2>It's like history. You know, history, you know, repeats itself.

648
00:34:56.719 --> 00:34:58.519
<v Speaker 2>Whether you want to accept that or not, it does.

649
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:01.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm the same exactly ways, but the same concepts, and

650
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:05.920
<v Speaker 2>so do design and so yeah, I mean everybody is

651
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:08.119
<v Speaker 2>sharing from everybody else, well, learning from everybody else and

652
00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:10.559
<v Speaker 2>interpreting in their own putting their own swing on it.

653
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:12.800
<v Speaker 2>That's why even somebody who comes from England in the

654
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.559
<v Speaker 2>seventeenth century, you know, who makes this piece of furniture,

655
00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:19.119
<v Speaker 2>He's going to introduce something locally, you know, the local

656
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:22.559
<v Speaker 2>craftsman is oh I saw. Because creative people they're always looking,

657
00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.360
<v Speaker 2>you know, they're creative, and so they're always looking for

658
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:30.280
<v Speaker 2>new inspiration and the nature nature or you know what

659
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:31.360
<v Speaker 2>a competitors doing.

660
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:35.320
<v Speaker 1>Right, right, And yeah, I love that, and I do

661
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:37.800
<v Speaker 1>think it's very very important. You know, we have to

662
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:40.440
<v Speaker 1>pass the torch. And here's a you know, just a

663
00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:42.159
<v Speaker 1>couple of thoughts on that, you know, I mean, we're

664
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:45.039
<v Speaker 1>only caregivers to what we have here just for the

665
00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:48.159
<v Speaker 1>time we're here. And you know, I mean it's important

666
00:35:48.199 --> 00:35:53.159
<v Speaker 1>that these things get passed on and good hands, caring hands,

667
00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:57.400
<v Speaker 1>and I do have some fear of that. But I

668
00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:01.960
<v Speaker 1>also I heard someone's perspective on why there's a little

669
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:04.440
<v Speaker 1>bit of separation and the way it used to be,

670
00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:06.880
<v Speaker 1>and I think there's a lot of truth to it.

671
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:09.239
<v Speaker 1>And I'm just going to run it by you what

672
00:36:09.360 --> 00:36:15.639
<v Speaker 1>this person told me. He basically used a Limos chocolate set.

673
00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:20.440
<v Speaker 1>Let's just say, you know, it became in the seventies

674
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:24.239
<v Speaker 1>and eighties, all of a sudden, it became collectible and costly.

675
00:36:24.599 --> 00:36:27.880
<v Speaker 1>But the reason it became collectible is because the person

676
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:30.960
<v Speaker 1>at the time remembered their grandmother serving them hot cocoa

677
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:34.639
<v Speaker 1>through this chocolate set. And now it's put in a cabinet,

678
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:37.639
<v Speaker 1>it's you know, it's expensive, you can't touch it, and

679
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:41.519
<v Speaker 1>so it loses that connection, the family connection and the

680
00:36:41.559 --> 00:36:44.679
<v Speaker 1>ephemeral connection at the time when you're a child to

681
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:48.880
<v Speaker 1>look back to. So now the old saying, if it

682
00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:51.239
<v Speaker 1>loses its story, it loses its value, you know, that

683
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:55.079
<v Speaker 1>type of thing. So so what do you think about that?

684
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:56.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean, do you think. And we also were in

685
00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:00.000
<v Speaker 1>a place right now we click on something used to

686
00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:02.559
<v Speaker 1>be where you had all these stories. I still have stories.

687
00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:07.800
<v Speaker 1>I go to Facebook marketplace. I got this Spanish circle

688
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:12.440
<v Speaker 1>of old Master painting, you know, through Facebook. Terrible frame,

689
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.960
<v Speaker 1>I know, but anyway, so but I love the chase,

690
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:18.480
<v Speaker 1>and I think that's gone a lot when all you

691
00:37:18.519 --> 00:37:20.320
<v Speaker 1>have to do is click on something and you're not,

692
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:21.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, running it down.

693
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:25.920
<v Speaker 2>I think in a lot of ways people are lacking

694
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:32.400
<v Speaker 2>in patience and because everything is just instant, Yeah, they

695
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:33.840
<v Speaker 2>can get it, so they don't want to take they

696
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:35.760
<v Speaker 2>don't want to wait, they don't want to wait, they

697
00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:37.840
<v Speaker 2>aren't now, and I think that that's kind of a

698
00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:42.039
<v Speaker 2>lost I'll call it an art and I'm not I'm

699
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:44.880
<v Speaker 2>not saying that it doesn't happen to me too, but

700
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:47.800
<v Speaker 2>I try to try to keep that in mind, that

701
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:56.719
<v Speaker 2>we appreciate, appreciate the process. We have third graders come

702
00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:02.760
<v Speaker 2>through the museum every spring. That's pretty soon and one

703
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:04.599
<v Speaker 2>of the one of the sessions we have we have

704
00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:07.480
<v Speaker 2>three different stations, and one of which is which is

705
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.000
<v Speaker 2>when I run. It's it's the then and now, and

706
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:14.440
<v Speaker 2>it's giving them opportunity to handle. Uh, you know, original material,

707
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:17.599
<v Speaker 2>even if it's the nineteen sixties. You know telephone dialogue,

708
00:38:17.639 --> 00:38:20.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, wrot telephone. Uh. And I make the connection

709
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:23.840
<v Speaker 2>with the phone, and we start with the candlestick phone.

710
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:27.360
<v Speaker 2>We kind of work up and then with a start

711
00:38:27.400 --> 00:38:33.960
<v Speaker 2>with a oh, I'm blank on the name of this stereograph.

712
00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:34.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, put the.

713
00:38:34.760 --> 00:38:37.920
<v Speaker 2>Cards in your eyes come together and you see the

714
00:38:37.920 --> 00:38:40.960
<v Speaker 2>three image of three D and so I you start

715
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:42.880
<v Speaker 2>with those to those things and that can I work

716
00:38:42.920 --> 00:38:45.000
<v Speaker 2>up to the president I merge them in an iPhone

717
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:48.880
<v Speaker 2>of to day. You know it has both so three

718
00:38:48.920 --> 00:38:50.320
<v Speaker 2>D three D you know when you go to movie

719
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:52.480
<v Speaker 2>next and have three D glasses, think of this, but

720
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.199
<v Speaker 2>also the whole concept of the visual, the photographs and

721
00:38:55.320 --> 00:39:00.280
<v Speaker 2>the and the phone with you phone. Uh so again

722
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:03.000
<v Speaker 2>but but and we also talk about we also have

723
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:05.800
<v Speaker 2>several cannibals. I talk about candle making and you know

724
00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:08.840
<v Speaker 2>spoons that you know somebody obviously card on our own.

725
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:10.599
<v Speaker 2>The other one they bought from you know, a store

726
00:39:11.400 --> 00:39:14.239
<v Speaker 2>from the you know, nineteenth or the twentieth century, and

727
00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:16.599
<v Speaker 2>just talking about the process and how long things took.

728
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:18.440
<v Speaker 2>You couldn't just run this, you know a store and

729
00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:21.039
<v Speaker 2>buy something you had to you know, you barred for,

730
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:24.280
<v Speaker 2>you made it, you you know whatever. And again it's

731
00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:27.440
<v Speaker 2>that that patience and appreciation that things took time, they

732
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:31.760
<v Speaker 2>weren't instant and instantaneous. And that is something I think

733
00:39:31.760 --> 00:39:37.719
<v Speaker 2>it's important to remind students about because they they don't

734
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:41.480
<v Speaker 2>know because everything is so instant. Wow, I want to

735
00:39:41.480 --> 00:39:42.960
<v Speaker 2>ask I want something, to run to the store and

736
00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:44.079
<v Speaker 2>get it, or I want order.

737
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:46.239
<v Speaker 1>Or Amazon it's here tomorrow whatever.

738
00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:50.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And so I think that's something which with history,

739
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:55.519
<v Speaker 2>I think again taking a step back and appreciation is important,

740
00:39:56.480 --> 00:40:00.320
<v Speaker 2>take a step back and appreciating, uh, things from the past,

741
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:04.559
<v Speaker 2>and uh that includes you know, using things from the past.

742
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:07.519
<v Speaker 2>Just that chest of drawers, open that every time and

743
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:08.679
<v Speaker 2>smell that great wood.

744
00:40:09.199 --> 00:40:12.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they're amazing to be used.

745
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:15.119
<v Speaker 2>And glass and suramester a little more iffy because they

746
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.960
<v Speaker 2>can break, but same token. There's so many sets of

747
00:40:18.159 --> 00:40:21.039
<v Speaker 2>china out there now that you know you wouldn't want

748
00:40:21.039 --> 00:40:24.320
<v Speaker 2>to break it, but you know, yeah, so you use it,

749
00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:29.639
<v Speaker 2>appreciate it, be careful hand washing it, you know, break it,

750
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:32.639
<v Speaker 2>dropping the sink. But I think I think things as

751
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:37.159
<v Speaker 2>you say that the stories are what make an object important,

752
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:38.400
<v Speaker 2>even though, if you're going to go back to the

753
00:40:38.440 --> 00:40:43.480
<v Speaker 2>auctions or dealers, you know, if you're just because George

754
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Washington sat in a chair doesn't make it a great

755
00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:48.039
<v Speaker 2>looking chair. It could still be an ugly chair. And

756
00:40:48.119 --> 00:40:50.559
<v Speaker 2>so just because you have that provenance doesn't mean it's

757
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:51.880
<v Speaker 2>going to sell for a lot of money. But it's

758
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.000
<v Speaker 2>nice story, So there's still a story connected to it,

759
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:56.599
<v Speaker 2>even if it's not worth a lot of money. So

760
00:40:56.599 --> 00:40:57.920
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't have to work a lot of money to

761
00:40:57.960 --> 00:40:59.599
<v Speaker 2>have a story. It can be a little trinket. I

762
00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:02.639
<v Speaker 2>can have a fun story about my grandmother or grandfather

763
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:05.679
<v Speaker 2>or a cousin whatever, a golant uh you know, brought

764
00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:07.559
<v Speaker 2>this from X y Z time or they made this

765
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:10.519
<v Speaker 2>or they played with this or whatever. It just makes it.

766
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:13.079
<v Speaker 2>The life is stories. That's what our lives are. That's

767
00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:15.480
<v Speaker 2>what a museum does. They tell stories and their their

768
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:19.679
<v Speaker 2>history based of course, but it's the stories of people's lives,

769
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:24.280
<v Speaker 2>and a lot people's lives don't really the basic needs

770
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:27.079
<v Speaker 2>don't the basic needs don't change, and the situations don't

771
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.320
<v Speaker 2>really change on the broad scrip of things. But it's

772
00:41:31.320 --> 00:41:34.719
<v Speaker 2>again those stories and what they you know, how their

773
00:41:34.719 --> 00:41:38.440
<v Speaker 2>life was when you know, within the automobiles or whatever

774
00:41:38.480 --> 00:41:41.440
<v Speaker 2>happens to be. I mean, uh, it's those stories that

775
00:41:41.559 --> 00:41:45.119
<v Speaker 2>make make history so so interesting. It's so much fun

776
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:48.719
<v Speaker 2>and so relevant to our lives, you know today. And

777
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:50.679
<v Speaker 2>that's why if you're going to do history, you've got

778
00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:53.000
<v Speaker 2>to be a storyteller. If you're gonna do if you're

779
00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:56.480
<v Speaker 2>gonna sell you know, antiques, it's being a storyteller adds

780
00:41:56.559 --> 00:41:59.000
<v Speaker 2>a lot to it. And it's like it's, you know,

781
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:00.960
<v Speaker 2>we all want to sit and listen to a good storyteller.

782
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:01.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

783
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:05.559
<v Speaker 2>My brother, my younger brother, is an amazing storyteller. I

784
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:07.559
<v Speaker 2>don't know, I don't he has the you know, the personality,

785
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:10.800
<v Speaker 2>just tells great stories. I'm not in the same category

786
00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:13.000
<v Speaker 2>more like, and this happened then and I still you

787
00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:17.800
<v Speaker 2>know whatever, But it's still the stories right around. That's

788
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:20.159
<v Speaker 2>what we've enjoyed. We go to family dinner, we tell stories.

789
00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:21.760
<v Speaker 2>You know. I was just a love hearing my uncle

790
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:24.280
<v Speaker 2>you know, tell stories about you know, X y Z.

791
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so it's all the human connection. Yeah, I got

792
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:32.119
<v Speaker 1>to tell you the funny story that happened to me.

793
00:42:33.159 --> 00:42:35.559
<v Speaker 1>I was out and when I was in California. It's

794
00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:38.400
<v Speaker 1>a Walnut Creek. It's an area, and that I was

795
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:41.039
<v Speaker 1>at a garden club and doing an appraisal clinic for

796
00:42:41.079 --> 00:42:43.559
<v Speaker 1>a benefit for the garden club. And there was a

797
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:46.480
<v Speaker 1>big line, and and they knew I was like the

798
00:42:46.679 --> 00:42:49.880
<v Speaker 1>old antique type of guy, like I could do like

799
00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:52.360
<v Speaker 1>the real antiques and then they'd have like the Martyr.

800
00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:56.199
<v Speaker 1>And then so this woman came up to me and

801
00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:58.840
<v Speaker 1>she says, there's a woman standing back in the back

802
00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:00.840
<v Speaker 1>of the line, but I want to bring her right

803
00:43:00.920 --> 00:43:04.519
<v Speaker 1>up to you because she has an eagle that belonged

804
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:07.559
<v Speaker 1>to George Washington. And so I'm kind of like chuckling,

805
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:12.840
<v Speaker 1>and I said, okay, all right. So so she comes,

806
00:43:12.920 --> 00:43:15.400
<v Speaker 1>they bring up to the front of the line, and

807
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:18.480
<v Speaker 1>she unwraps this thing very carefully whatever and she puts

808
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:22.639
<v Speaker 1>out the most beautiful bellamy two foot eagle you could imagine.

809
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:24.679
<v Speaker 1>And I said, well, I got good news and bad

810
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:28.159
<v Speaker 1>news for you. I said, first of all, George Washington

811
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:31.280
<v Speaker 1>was dead for about one hundred and fifty years when

812
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:34.519
<v Speaker 1>this thing was carved. And but it was her family history,

813
00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:36.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, you know how that can happen, like it

814
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:40.360
<v Speaker 1>came down through like George Washington might have stayed at

815
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:43.159
<v Speaker 1>their house one time or in their family or something whatever.

816
00:43:43.719 --> 00:43:46.920
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, I said, you still have a very valuable

817
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:50.840
<v Speaker 1>eagle made in Kittery Point, Maine. And you know, I

818
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:53.159
<v Speaker 1>mean it was just it was really funny. But you

819
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:56.559
<v Speaker 1>hear these I love the stories, even though they're wrong.

820
00:43:58.039 --> 00:43:59.599
<v Speaker 1>Here when people have these.

821
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Type of and sometimes it crushes there there them. But

822
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:05.519
<v Speaker 2>at the same token, it's the stories are George Haley

823
00:44:05.559 --> 00:44:07.440
<v Speaker 2>Bellamy he was It's pretty amazing.

824
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:12.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, John yep, yep. So anyway, this is uh, and

825
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:15.440
<v Speaker 1>were you involved? Now I may have this wrong, but

826
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:18.119
<v Speaker 1>were you involved when they found his tools?

827
00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I was involved? Did you say involved? I was? It

828
00:44:23.119 --> 00:44:28.239
<v Speaker 2>was the same the course with a Porson of historical society.

829
00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Correct, Yeah, And it had something to do did have

830
00:44:32.039 --> 00:44:35.400
<v Speaker 1>anything to do with Frost A gentleman named Frost.

831
00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:38.679
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Frost, Yeah, rememorish. I'd totally forgotten about that. I

832
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:41.880
<v Speaker 2>remember seeing his tools in the in the second floor

833
00:44:41.880 --> 00:44:45.679
<v Speaker 2>of the Historical at the time. Uh, And isn't this cool?

834
00:44:46.119 --> 00:44:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, my dad had something to do with that years ago.

835
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:50.440
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, I'm trying to think when was that it

836
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:52.840
<v Speaker 2>was it was in that same general time frame or

837
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:55.320
<v Speaker 2>I was wrapping up things of rock in my thesis.

838
00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:57.960
<v Speaker 2>It was all kind of the same time as I

839
00:44:58.079 --> 00:45:01.280
<v Speaker 2>as I recall, that was pretty nifty. That was nifty.

840
00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:04.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, that just for the listener, And that's just

841
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:08.760
<v Speaker 1>it's a real famous John Haley Bellamy, a very famous

842
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:12.760
<v Speaker 1>eagle carver. Uh start out the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard, carving

843
00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:16.079
<v Speaker 1>eagles there and carving other things to uh you know,

844
00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:20.000
<v Speaker 1>uh bowsprits and things like that and and uh trans

845
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:21.920
<v Speaker 1>on boards and things. But I mean he was just

846
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:26.039
<v Speaker 1>an amazing carver, had his own style of eagle and

847
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:29.039
<v Speaker 1>it became very popular. And there's all kinds of very

848
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:32.559
<v Speaker 1>colorful person I did a I did a podcast. You

849
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:36.159
<v Speaker 1>can check back on this podcast. I did a podcast

850
00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:40.199
<v Speaker 1>about that carver. I'm trying to remember the gentleman that

851
00:45:40.239 --> 00:45:45.280
<v Speaker 1>put the book together. Oh yes, I just can't think

852
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:49.800
<v Speaker 1>of I can't. But anyway, Jim, Jim, there was.

853
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:52.360
<v Speaker 2>There was a and he was you know, he also

854
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:54.960
<v Speaker 2>number of things in Portsmate in the Traderal House for

855
00:45:55.079 --> 00:45:58.360
<v Speaker 2>Ron Borgeaux used to have his auction yeah building, I

856
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:02.400
<v Speaker 2>believe it's now condos. The huge reproduction bell on the

857
00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:07.840
<v Speaker 2>ego was on the front of that if anybody remembers

858
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:11.400
<v Speaker 2>the banners above the eagle's head and saying live for

859
00:46:11.599 --> 00:46:14.440
<v Speaker 2>or die and all sorts of different things. Yeah, yeah,

860
00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:19.480
<v Speaker 2>also made them. Also made them shelves, you know, the

861
00:46:19.840 --> 00:46:21.400
<v Speaker 2>that would have Masonic.

862
00:46:21.679 --> 00:46:23.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, he made the shelves. He made the picture

863
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:28.920
<v Speaker 1>frames that George Boston used to paint paintings on. He

864
00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:32.039
<v Speaker 1>made deer heads, He did all kinds of Yeah, he

865
00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:33.800
<v Speaker 1>did all kinds of things. I've had a bunch of

866
00:46:33.800 --> 00:46:37.159
<v Speaker 1>them over the years. But well, anyway, it's been such

867
00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:39.360
<v Speaker 1>a pleasure to talk to you again. I don't know

868
00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:41.559
<v Speaker 1>if he really made any progress here the state of

869
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:44.159
<v Speaker 1>antiques today, but it's uh, well, I.

870
00:46:44.079 --> 00:46:47.280
<v Speaker 2>Think, I think, I think quickly. The one of the

871
00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:50.239
<v Speaker 2>things that is a challenge that history isn't being taught

872
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:52.280
<v Speaker 2>the same way it was once taught in schools with

873
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:56.280
<v Speaker 2>all those standardized testing. You have, you know, math of sciences,

874
00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:00.360
<v Speaker 2>but the arts, the arts and you know, his history,

875
00:47:00.519 --> 00:47:03.079
<v Speaker 2>Civics just not taught it anymore. So if they're not

876
00:47:03.239 --> 00:47:05.679
<v Speaker 2>in the same way with the same emphasis because of

877
00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:07.480
<v Speaker 2>the standardized testing and the need to you know, for

878
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:12.199
<v Speaker 2>schools to rank, et cetera, so students aren't getting they're

879
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:17.159
<v Speaker 2>not learning the history that they should be learning. And

880
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:19.320
<v Speaker 2>so therefore, if you're not learning something, how can you

881
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:22.800
<v Speaker 2>be aware of it? So and it's like anything cultural,

882
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:26.400
<v Speaker 2>be it, you know, museums, symphony, ballet. If you're not

883
00:47:26.480 --> 00:47:28.480
<v Speaker 2>being exposed to it, you're not going to know, and

884
00:47:28.519 --> 00:47:30.440
<v Speaker 2>therefore you're not going to care. And that is a

885
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:34.440
<v Speaker 2>very serious issue with culture in general. If you don't know,

886
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:37.360
<v Speaker 2>then you're not going to care. So that's that's a

887
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:40.119
<v Speaker 2>that's why I love having you know, school kids come

888
00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:42.800
<v Speaker 2>in here, you get you you like that sparking. You

889
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:44.599
<v Speaker 2>never know what it is that you're going to like

890
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:46.559
<v Speaker 2>that spark if they go to an option, you know,

891
00:47:46.599 --> 00:47:49.559
<v Speaker 2>whatever it is something you they need. People need to

892
00:47:49.599 --> 00:47:54.559
<v Speaker 2>be exposed and to to history, to culture because it's important.

893
00:47:54.960 --> 00:47:58.400
<v Speaker 2>It makes us, It makes us a richer person, you know,

894
00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:02.159
<v Speaker 2>having that, I mean having that exposure. So that's that's

895
00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:05.480
<v Speaker 2>that's a really really important issue that I don't have

896
00:48:05.519 --> 00:48:09.320
<v Speaker 2>an answer for other than figure out a way to

897
00:48:09.320 --> 00:48:12.000
<v Speaker 2>get history back into schools and part of the curriculum.

898
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:16.239
<v Speaker 2>More so, younger people are exposed to it, so there

899
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:19.000
<v Speaker 2>is that interest. Otherwise it's just you know, they're going

900
00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:20.639
<v Speaker 2>to fall into it. They're going to you know, some

901
00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:22.840
<v Speaker 2>one way or the other. But it's it's more difficult,

902
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:28.480
<v Speaker 2>more challenging to to get younger people aware. So that's

903
00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:32.440
<v Speaker 2>that's something which which I'm I would love to see

904
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:34.119
<v Speaker 2>more more focus on.

905
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:38.800
<v Speaker 1>I have when I have run into like at appraisal

906
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:42.199
<v Speaker 1>clinics and things like that, there's actually kids that are interested.

907
00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:45.280
<v Speaker 1>I always ask them, Hey, how did you get you know,

908
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:47.960
<v Speaker 1>interested in a lot of times, Oh, I watch you know,

909
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:55.360
<v Speaker 1>uh shop for you know, American pickers or and one

910
00:48:55.440 --> 00:48:57.920
<v Speaker 1>kid said, I love the antiques roadshow. I go really,

911
00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:00.280
<v Speaker 1>I said, oh, that's so awesome, you know. I mean,

912
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:03.280
<v Speaker 1>so it's good that at least you know that that's

913
00:49:03.320 --> 00:49:04.800
<v Speaker 1>out there. That's good exposure.

914
00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:05.400
<v Speaker 2>It is.

915
00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:07.719
<v Speaker 1>But I love the hands on. I think the hands

916
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:10.559
<v Speaker 1>on is so important, you know. I mean you think

917
00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:13.000
<v Speaker 1>of if if I never had the hands on, I

918
00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:15.280
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't have had interest in this, you know.

919
00:49:16.119 --> 00:49:19.800
<v Speaker 2>If I had not taken a class by John Kirk,

920
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:24.280
<v Speaker 2>who was furniture historian the Importunitius furniture collector of the

921
00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:30.199
<v Speaker 2>Importunitia's house collector, et cetera, house restorer, et cetera, I

922
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:35.079
<v Speaker 2>would not have known there was a field to study furniture.

923
00:49:35.199 --> 00:49:36.519
<v Speaker 2>I would have had no idea. I was an art

924
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:39.880
<v Speaker 2>history major. They don't, I mean, our history classes, they

925
00:49:39.920 --> 00:49:43.159
<v Speaker 2>really need to introduce furniture, reductive arts because art doesn't

926
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:46.719
<v Speaker 2>hang on a wall by itself in space. They're usually

927
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:50.039
<v Speaker 2>architecture classes that they don't teach decorative our furnature classes.

928
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:53.000
<v Speaker 2>And I was very fortunate there was a program an

929
00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:57.239
<v Speaker 2>artistry artistanery also at BEU at the time where John was,

930
00:49:57.760 --> 00:50:00.840
<v Speaker 2>and he taught us one semester to semester class on

931
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:03.239
<v Speaker 2>the history of furniture, and the p I A kids

932
00:50:03.239 --> 00:50:05.760
<v Speaker 2>were there too, so I got the people making the

933
00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:08.639
<v Speaker 2>stuff and I got him talking about the stuff, and

934
00:50:08.760 --> 00:50:11.719
<v Speaker 2>it just lit the spark. I was like, oh my gosh.

935
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Again it was that exposure, that opportunity, and it changed

936
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:20.320
<v Speaker 2>my trajectory entirely to that was that that Again, it's

937
00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:23.360
<v Speaker 2>about the opportunity and so regardless of how you find it,

938
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:26.519
<v Speaker 2>but the you know, the more exposure to classes or

939
00:50:27.000 --> 00:50:36.440
<v Speaker 2>TV shows, stars or whatever, pond stars, yeah, pickers, America, pickers, whatever,

940
00:50:37.880 --> 00:50:40.000
<v Speaker 2>they're they're important.

941
00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:44.079
<v Speaker 1>Right right, Well, thanks so much. You're such a positive

942
00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:45.320
<v Speaker 1>thing to the antiques world.

943
00:50:45.320 --> 00:50:48.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm that and I'm tangential at this point and

944
00:50:48.679 --> 00:50:51.440
<v Speaker 2>it's a very but still it's it's uh, it's it's

945
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:55.679
<v Speaker 2>about getting people involved in families also, people of all ages,

946
00:50:55.719 --> 00:50:58.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, into the museum for different programs and and

947
00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:01.360
<v Speaker 2>and connecting them with how fun history is. And we

948
00:51:01.400 --> 00:51:03.320
<v Speaker 2>have one of the most important archives in New England.

949
00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:05.800
<v Speaker 2>It's incredible. It goes back in sixteen thirties and you

950
00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:08.760
<v Speaker 2>just go down these rabbit holes, you know. It's it's

951
00:51:08.840 --> 00:51:11.800
<v Speaker 2>so many layers. It's just fascinating. So history is a

952
00:51:11.800 --> 00:51:14.760
<v Speaker 2>great thing, it really is. Yeah, I appreciate it.

953
00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:18.400
<v Speaker 1>I've been looking at reading a book on Dutch Manhattan

954
00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:21.679
<v Speaker 1>and boy is that really interesting? Really interesting? How that

955
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:25.239
<v Speaker 1>I'll start it. But anyway, thank you so much. A

956
00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:27.039
<v Speaker 1>real pleasure is always to talk to you.

957
00:51:27.159 --> 00:51:29.239
<v Speaker 2>I hope to see you before ten other ten years.

958
00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:31.920
<v Speaker 1>That's right, Okay, take care of right.

959
00:51:31.960 --> 00:51:32.519
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Maron