Speaker 1: You see, something's going to happen.
Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 3: Welcome to the Occult Rejects, where we deep dive into
Speaker 3: the hidden, the heretical, and the forgotten truths of our world.
Speaker 3: Today we are honored to be joined by Doc Gregory L. Little,
Speaker 3: a psychologist, author, and explorer of ancient mysteries. He's the
Speaker 3: author of Mound Builders, Edgar Casey's Forgotten Record of Ancient America,
Speaker 3: a groundbreaking work that blends archaeology, Native American history, and
Speaker 3: the visionary insights of the sleeping profit Edgar Casey. Doctor
Speaker 3: Little I spent decades investigating America's ancient sacred sites, and
Speaker 3: his research offers a compelling look at the loss civilization
Speaker 3: that once shaped this land, long before mainstream history days
Speaker 3: to admit. So buckle up because today we're venturing into
Speaker 3: the mounds, the myths, and the mystical memories of Forgotten America.
Speaker 3: But the other rejects that I got with me today
Speaker 3: before we get to Greg, I got Lisa, the occult
Speaker 3: reject mad scientists with us today. What is going on? Lisa?
Speaker 3: How are you?
Speaker 4: I'm good, Thank you for having me. I'm looking forward
Speaker 4: to this conversation.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, thank you very much for joining us, and
Speaker 3: we also got Heidi. What is going on? Heidi?
Speaker 5: How are you hello?
Speaker 1: I'm glad to be here, happy to meet you, doctor Little,
Speaker 1: and happy to be here with JJ, Lisa and yourself.
Speaker 3: So listen, I mean you want to everybody know where
Speaker 3: they can find your stuff as well.
Speaker 1: Of course I'm at the Unfiltered Rise everywhere podcasts are served.
Speaker 1: I do have my own podcast, Unfiltered Rise podcast dot
Speaker 1: com and Heidi love luv is where you'll find most
Speaker 1: of myself.
Speaker 3: Thank you, listen, Thank you very much. And last but
Speaker 3: not lish, JJ Vance.
Speaker 6: Nick, howdy, sir, appreciate the invitation as always, Greg, great
Speaker 6: to meet you, big big Mound fans, so big to
Speaker 6: like I said, big fan of your Twitter timeline over
Speaker 6: the year, So definitely looking forward to the conversation and
Speaker 6: Heidi and Lise.
Speaker 7: Always great to join you on Cult Rejects.
Speaker 6: Here for a Mound conversation, specifically because that's one of
Speaker 6: my favorites and.
Speaker 7: Host of operations GCD.
Speaker 6: You will find a lot of Mound conversations there and
Speaker 6: perhaps more notably not the vice president JJ Vance. Looking
Speaker 6: for the conversation though, Nick great, great time is always awesome.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. And since I totally forgot that
Speaker 3: I was waiting on Gin and started recording, I'll plug
Speaker 3: his show for him. Threshold Saints. Gin should be popping
Speaker 3: in shortly. I totally forgot to wait on him. So yeah,
Speaker 3: and finally, now on to Greg Gregory. Please let everybody
Speaker 3: know what your deal is. You know that I didn't
Speaker 3: already explain already, And let people know what other books
Speaker 3: you've written and whatever you want to plug please with Oh.
Speaker 5: Wow, well, first, thanks everyone, first time I've met you.
Speaker 5: Although you know, these meetings are happening more and more often,
Speaker 5: we're going through you know, electrical meetings like this, and
Speaker 5: so it's getting increasingly weird. A lot of people here,
Speaker 5: you get to meet a lot of people. But wow, okay.
Speaker 5: My background is in psychology. My real area was psychopharmacology,
Speaker 5: which that's what my masters is in. It's a sub
Speaker 5: specialty of experimental psychology. Now I've been out of school
Speaker 5: for a long long time and most of my career
Speaker 5: has been in the field of criminal psychology, and I'm
Speaker 5: still active in that field, but I don't talk about
Speaker 5: it much. And that's just one of those things that
Speaker 5: just I really just don't discuss much. If somebody wants
Speaker 5: to ask a question, I'd be happy to answer it.
Speaker 5: I got into this mound stuff in nineteen eighty three,
Speaker 5: after I've finished my first book, and it's a long,
Speaker 5: involved story, I won't get to it, but it came
Speaker 5: out of nowhere. My first book was called The Archetype Experience.
Speaker 5: It came out in nineteen eighty four, and it was
Speaker 5: a follow up to Carl Jung's final book, which was
Speaker 5: called Flying Saucers, a modern myth of things seen in
Speaker 5: the skies. And since nobody understood what Carl Jung said
Speaker 5: in that book, or at least I'm saying nobody in
Speaker 5: the UFO field seemed to understand it, I decided, as
Speaker 5: a new young doctorate to go ahead and write the
Speaker 5: book on it. So that was my first one, and
Speaker 5: then I got into Mound's unexpectedly. I have a lot
Speaker 5: of books and a lot of different topics. I've written
Speaker 5: textbooks in psychopharmacology and criminal personality and personality theories and
Speaker 5: just lots of different areas. But the Indian Mound stuff
Speaker 5: culminated with the writing of this monstrous book. It's like
Speaker 5: five hundred and some pages long, and it's called The
Speaker 5: Illustrated Encyclopedia of Native American Mounds and Earthworks. Every page
Speaker 5: is like this, and it goes through state by state,
Speaker 5: and it's got like a thousand sites in it. And
Speaker 5: this can't The first edition came out in two thousand
Speaker 5: and eight. The one I just showed is the second edition,
Speaker 5: and I can plug that because you can't buy it.
Speaker 5: There are none of those available now.
Speaker 3: I'm just going to ask JJ if you had one,
Speaker 3: you better go get one. I guess he can.
Speaker 5: Well, they're out of print, and I saw some. They
Speaker 5: keep popping up now and then on Amazon, and people
Speaker 5: are asking thousands of dollars for it. So what I've
Speaker 5: been doing for the past roughly twelve months is writing
Speaker 5: a new version of it, updating it. It appears to
Speaker 5: be about eight hundred and fifty pages now and it's
Speaker 5: actually a promise to some I'll call them Native American
Speaker 5: spirits where that all began. But anyway, I'm an active professional,
Speaker 5: but this is the side stuff. I've been in the
Speaker 5: Ksey Organization a long time. It was actually the My
Speaker 5: wife was the head of the Casey Organization for many
Speaker 5: years and was on the board. Uh and we actually
Speaker 5: ran the ares where we were the Ares Search for
Speaker 5: Atlantis project for ten years in the Bahamas and the
Speaker 5: Yucatan and uh so we did a lot. So wherever
Speaker 5: you want to go with that, just quick quick question.
Speaker 3: Do you know uh beat Selena a little.
Speaker 5: Solanta.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was somebody that was on us showing them.
Speaker 3: I don't know how far back, maybe it was before
Speaker 3: your time. She was heavily involved in that Edgar Casey thing.
Speaker 5: She lived there. I think for a minute, Well, there's
Speaker 5: a lot of people heavily involved with the Casey organization.
Speaker 5: Du Yeah, No, I don't know. My wife and I
Speaker 5: were the editors of the Ancient Mysteries newsletter for many years.
Speaker 5: Actually we started it and there I've written tons of
Speaker 5: articles for it, as my wife has we spoke, we spoke,
Speaker 5: it arranged and spoke the Ancient at the Ancient Mysteries
Speaker 5: conference there for ten straight years. I just got tired
Speaker 5: of doing talks. I don't do any public talks at
Speaker 5: all anymore. Just don't want to, don't.
Speaker 1: I was here, I was here for the mounds, but
Speaker 1: I am a huge Edgar Casey fan. With the two
Speaker 1: Ice Stone stuff really in relation, especially to Joseph Smith
Speaker 1: and magical rocks.
Speaker 2: So that's fascinating to me. And also I'm a.
Speaker 1: Psychiatric nurse, so if you ever do talk about criminal psychology,
Speaker 1: I'd love to chat with you about that one one day.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 2: Fascinating.
Speaker 5: Well, the two I Stone, which very few people know about,
Speaker 5: was a started out as a communication device between the
Speaker 5: priests and priestesses of Atlantis. This is according to Casey's readings,
Speaker 5: so I'm giving you Casey's information. But it started out
Speaker 5: as this communication device where they would mentally tune themselves
Speaker 5: and the crystal would move energy back and forth between
Speaker 5: what Casey called the outer spheres and the people who
Speaker 5: were mentally communicating with it. In fact, that, according to
Speaker 5: Agar Casey, is how the priests of Atlantis found out
Speaker 5: that Atlantis was going to be destroyed, and this was
Speaker 5: in ten thousand BC, and told them to come up
Speaker 5: with a plan to set up the three hall of Records.
Speaker 5: The main one, of course, is in Egypt. That's the
Speaker 5: one everybody knows about. But according to Casey, there were
Speaker 5: three hall of Records that were identical in case one
Speaker 5: of them got destroyed. So there's one in Egypt under
Speaker 5: the Sphinx. There is one in the Yucatan at a
Speaker 5: place called Piatris Nigris, Guatemala. And then there's another one
Speaker 5: which is in the Bahamas, which when Casey gave the reading,
Speaker 5: it wasn't called the Bahamas.
Speaker 2: But he said Azarian.
Speaker 5: He said it's near, and he said it would a
Speaker 5: portion of the posidea would rise again in sixty eight
Speaker 5: or sixty nine, meaning nineteen sixty eight or sixty nine. Uh.
Speaker 5: And so that's what my wife and I did a
Speaker 5: lot of underwater research with side scan sonar in that area,
Speaker 5: mainly the area around Andros Island for roughly ten years.
Speaker 5: I wrote a lot about it, wrote several books about it.
Speaker 5: Just we do projects. And then it was fun.
Speaker 2: I love this. I'm a huge Howard hughes NERD.
Speaker 1: So oh yeah, so I love this.
Speaker 2: I think it's fascinating. Thank you.
Speaker 5: Anyone. Yeah, what did cake?
Speaker 6: What was Casey's position on the mound builders? Well, I'm
Speaker 6: not that.
Speaker 5: That's how I actually got into actively into the Casey organization.
Speaker 5: It always had an interest. Actually, Casey is mentioned in
Speaker 5: psychology textbooks, and that's how I first found out about Casey.
Speaker 5: It's because of his really his healing remedies, and according
Speaker 5: to the American Medical Association, Agar Casey is the father
Speaker 5: of holistic medicine in the United States. So anyway, my
Speaker 5: wife and I went to Egypt with the Casey Organization
Speaker 5: back in about nineteen ninety seven. I was not an
Speaker 5: active member at the time, but we went there and
Speaker 5: got to meet one of the directors, and the director
Speaker 5: of the ARI found out about my interest in Indian mounds,
Speaker 5: which I'd already written several books about Indian mounds, and
Speaker 5: I was in the process of doing this monster at
Speaker 5: the time. Of course, this took a long time to do.
Speaker 5: And he said, hey, why don't you look at the
Speaker 5: Edgar Casey readings on bound builders and compare what Casey
Speaker 5: said to what is known at the time about Native
Speaker 5: American mounds and history. And my answer was, I didn't
Speaker 5: know Agar Casey did any readings on Native American mounds.
Speaker 5: And again this is back in nineteen ninety seven, and
Speaker 5: he said, yeah, so I did this research. Casey gave
Speaker 5: sixty eight readings about Native American mounds and ancient history
Speaker 5: in the Americas, but sixty eight readings specifically mentioned the
Speaker 5: mound builders. Some of the things that he said is
Speaker 5: that the mounds were built from the south up and
Speaker 5: he said that in the late nineteen twenties and at
Speaker 5: that time, really up until roughly nineteen ninety six or so,
Speaker 5: this was true. What mainstream market marchaeology said is that
Speaker 5: the mound builders began in the north and went south.
Speaker 5: But Casey said in the nineteen twenties they began in
Speaker 5: the south and went north, and of course that was
Speaker 5: considered nonsense. Now that is the fact it began in
Speaker 5: the south and went north.
Speaker 6: He also is that exhibited by like Poverty Point, is
Speaker 6: that one of the older south points.
Speaker 5: Point the Poverty Point in around ninety the night till
Speaker 5: the early nineteen nineties was really the first of the
Speaker 5: culture sites. You're correct. There were mounds up north, two
Speaker 5: different kinds. Some that were near the old copper culture,
Speaker 5: in the glacial cane culture that's in like Minnesota and Michigan,
Speaker 5: and then further to the east you have the red
Speaker 5: paint people and they made really tiny mounds, and Poverty
Speaker 5: Point dated to about eighteen hundred BC at the time.
Speaker 5: But now we know that mounds were being built in
Speaker 5: Louisiana starting in nine thousand BC. Wow, And we know
Speaker 5: that there are and there are more mounds in Louisiana
Speaker 5: the date to about six thousand BC, and a lot
Speaker 5: in four thousand and forty five hundred BC. And as
Speaker 5: you keep going north from southern Louisiana, it gets to
Speaker 5: thirty five hundred BC, thirty seven hundred BC, then you
Speaker 5: might get to two thousand BC, and then you're into
Speaker 5: about fifteen hundred BC, and it just pops up everywhere.
Speaker 5: And in South America, the oldest mound right now that's
Speaker 5: known is a place called Isladel Tesoro, and it is
Speaker 5: dated to eighty four hundred BC. So that's one of
Speaker 5: the things Casey said that was absolutely crazy. When he
Speaker 5: said it, it made no sense whatsoever. He said that
Speaker 5: the mounds, though, were replicas of the experiences that people
Speaker 5: had from Atlantis. And so, as far as I know,
Speaker 5: Casey is the only one of the late eighteen hundreds
Speaker 5: early nineteen hundreds people like in Theosophy or some of
Speaker 5: the alternative spiritual beliefs that said that the Native Americans
Speaker 5: were the Atlanteans. Case he said point blank in his
Speaker 5: readings that the Red Race were the Atlantians, and he
Speaker 5: specifically mentioned the Iroquois, and he said that before Atlantis,
Speaker 5: the final destruction of Atlantis around ten thousand BC occurred,
Speaker 5: a number of Atlantians went, particularly to the northeast of America,
Speaker 5: and they merged in with the Red race that was
Speaker 5: already there, but they were the Atlantians. So he also
Speaker 5: said that there were three big dispersions into North America.
Speaker 5: One of them began in fifty thousand BC. People from
Speaker 5: the South Pacific, that's the term that he used, came
Speaker 5: mainly into South America, and then some of them moved
Speaker 5: up into the western part, the southwest of the United States.
Speaker 5: He said there was a The other intrusion into the
Speaker 5: America is around twenty eight thousand BC, and then in
Speaker 5: ten thousand BC there were loads of people, different people
Speaker 5: that came in and that of course is when Beringia opened,
Speaker 5: when the Bearing Straits let a lot of people from
Speaker 5: Siberian Asia come over. And all those those are the
Speaker 5: dates that he gave. And now at least the ten
Speaker 5: thousand BC, which he said again in the nineteen twenties,
Speaker 5: before Clovis and before the Folsom Points were found archaeology
Speaker 5: at the time he said this believed there was no
Speaker 5: one in the America's before six thousand BC. Up to
Speaker 5: around the nineteen thirties and forties, archaeologists told us that
Speaker 5: there was nobody here until about eight thousand years ago. Amazing.
Speaker 5: So those are the sum of the things that Casey said.
Speaker 5: I will say this in these books, Egar Casey's not
Speaker 5: mentioned one time. I just there's just no reason to
Speaker 5: do it, because I'm only covering what we know about
Speaker 5: mounds and mound sites so people can go to them.
Speaker 5: Uh So, you know, there's nothing in this book either
Speaker 5: about criminal psychology. It's just it's irrelevant. Uh So I
Speaker 5: try to keep all these things separate, so that.
Speaker 1: What about sorry, what about the white tribe that started
Speaker 1: They started with an A, but they would paint themselves red.
Speaker 2: I can't remember the al.
Speaker 5: There's a group called the leg Way. Hello, you know
Speaker 5: what it's called?
Speaker 2: M Well, no, not it was.
Speaker 1: It's a shorter one. I'll find the name. But they
Speaker 1: would paint themselves red, I guess. And they were said
Speaker 1: to be pale, pale skinned, and I wonder sometimes also
Speaker 1: if they may be part of the race that you know.
Speaker 5: Well, okay, so no, it's all right, go ahead. What's
Speaker 5: what's oh.
Speaker 8: I was just going to say, there is a tradition
Speaker 8: of using blood root to procure the red dye. So
Speaker 8: this is something that I know you have talked about
Speaker 8: mcmah hed and so this is something since I live
Speaker 8: in that region now even though I'm not from here,
Speaker 8: but that is a tradition from the region. It's like
Speaker 8: Albinaki and mcmah all the way around in Massachusetts they
Speaker 8: would paint with red blood root, which is a root
Speaker 8: of Mars.
Speaker 4: The natives of Wahaka do the same thing. They paint
Speaker 4: themselves red.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Well, I had mentioned earlier. In American archaeology they
Speaker 5: talk about the red paint people that were mainly like
Speaker 5: in Maine and New Hampshire and Vermont, and actually they
Speaker 5: got into New York and parts of Pennsylvania, and red
Speaker 5: was a very big deal, a big deal in burials
Speaker 5: and a big deal in covering your body with it
Speaker 5: as far as all these other intrusions. I am at
Speaker 5: the point now as I've learned so much in the
Speaker 5: past years, because I have a lot of archaeologists that
Speaker 5: talk to me now they don't do so openly, but
Speaker 5: what's happened in American archaeology there's a huge shift. Of course,
Speaker 5: when Clovis was basically killed, there's actually still Clovis holdouts.
Speaker 5: I wrote some did some Twitter posts on it, and
Speaker 5: this was after a mainstream archaeologist told me there's still
Speaker 5: archaeologists in academia arguing that Clovis was first. There was
Speaker 5: nobody here before ten thousand BC. And it's a crazy
Speaker 5: there's so much the overwhelming evidence, but things have dramatically shifted,
Speaker 5: and the big shift is this, it's like everybody, almost
Speaker 5: everybody knows about Kahokia. Kahokia is this massive mound site
Speaker 5: in Cohokia, Illinois, which is about ten miles to the
Speaker 5: east of Saint Louis, Missouri. Kahokia is most known because
Speaker 5: it has this gigantic mound called Monk's Mound, the name
Speaker 5: for when a monk lived on the top in historic times.
Speaker 5: Monk's Mound one time covered seventeen acres. Now it now
Speaker 5: covers fourteen acres, but it once covered seventeen acres. I'm
Speaker 5: giving you that size because the Great Pyramid at Giza
Speaker 5: covers thirteen acres. So Monk's Mound covers now fourteen acres.
Speaker 5: After hundreds of years of erosion and archaeologists screwing it up.
Speaker 5: It is one hundred feet tall. It's as tall as
Speaker 5: a ten story building. That's the way to think of it.
Speaker 5: So you got this mound that's a ten story building.
Speaker 5: There's a stone, giant stone chamber inside of it that
Speaker 5: wasn't discovered till nineteen ninety seven, and nobody knows what
Speaker 5: it is or what's in it, and we probably will
Speaker 5: never know, at least not in our lifetime because of
Speaker 5: nagpra laws. That's another whole story. But there's a one
Speaker 5: hundred and twenty mounds at Kahokia. Monks Mound is just
Speaker 5: the biggest sorry question.
Speaker 2: Oh no, I was. I just found the name. It's
Speaker 2: the Adena people.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, the Adena.
Speaker 6: Okay, okay, So I always to ask about that.
Speaker 7: Next time, I was gonna ask what your thoughts from
Speaker 7: the Who are the Adena?
Speaker 5: Okay? Well? The Adena were the precursors to what's called Hope. Well,
Speaker 5: so what you have are mound cultures. There's a series
Speaker 5: of mound cultures. Like the Red Paint People are are
Speaker 5: an early mound culture. So is poverty Point. There's actually
Speaker 5: around fifty poverty points sites. Most people just think that
Speaker 5: there's one site, but there's fifty poverty point sites and
Speaker 5: then it goes into Adena. The Adena their mounds are
Speaker 5: gigantic conical mounds. They can get up to eighty eighty
Speaker 5: five feet tall and like a top of an ice
Speaker 5: cream cone, like a big That's why they're called conical,
Speaker 5: So they're big. Uh. They usually have stone chambers in
Speaker 5: the base and loads of burials in them, and the
Speaker 5: burials are generally pretty elaborate. Sometimes they have earthworks around them,
Speaker 5: which means a huge ditch, maybe an outer wall around it,
Speaker 5: an earthen wall. They started building those around two thousand BC,
Speaker 5: that's the earliest. Most of them date to one thousand
Speaker 5: BC to roughly two hundred BC, and then they transitioned
Speaker 5: into the Hope Well. So the Adena people were the
Speaker 5: people who built the Adena mounds, and the Adena Mounds
Speaker 5: is simply it's a culture name from Adena, Ohio, which
Speaker 5: was the name of the plantation near Chillicothe. That one
Speaker 5: where the first mound of the Adena mound was excavated,
Speaker 5: and it was a governor's house where they did it.
Speaker 5: He had the mound on his land, so they called
Speaker 5: it the Adena culture. Hope Well was also there and
Speaker 5: near Chillicothe, and it was the Hopewell Plantation and the
Speaker 5: Hope Well were the sort I guess the logical outcome
Speaker 5: of the Edena, and they built these gigantic geometric earthworks,
Speaker 5: some of which extend fifty six miles in length. The
Speaker 5: largest geometric earthworks in the world are in the United States.
Speaker 5: They start in Newark, Ohio, and they end in Chilicothe, Ohio.
Speaker 5: That's another really long story. But the Adena, there are
Speaker 5: some authors who say the Adena were white. I can
Speaker 5: tell you that there have been quite a bit of
Speaker 5: studies where they have taken the skeletal remains excavated from
Speaker 5: Adena and Hope Well and Mississippian, which was the next group,
Speaker 5: the next culture that came after the Hope Well. They
Speaker 5: have taken those skeletons. They have removed both mitochondrial DNA
Speaker 5: and new kittar DNA, which do kular DNA is human DNA,
Speaker 5: and a lot of people don't understand mitochondrial DNA. But anyway,
Speaker 5: I won't I won't get to take the rest of
Speaker 5: the show. But they have tested them and their DNA
Speaker 5: essentially is the same as the as the current descendants
Speaker 5: of those people who are the Native American tribes or
Speaker 5: the first peoples in Canada. First Peoples is the term
Speaker 5: used in Canada. Now in America, most tribes do not
Speaker 5: like the term first peoples because they want to argue
Speaker 5: about who was first. And we know there's a lot
Speaker 5: of movement, but they were here a long long time,
Speaker 5: so I'm not a I do know this too, and
Speaker 5: this is where I was going before the term Adena
Speaker 5: came up. What's known is that there was a huge
Speaker 5: intrusion of people around the year nine hundred, eight hundred
Speaker 5: to nine hundred. They came into the Southwest at that
Speaker 5: time from Yucatan, going across the Gulf of whatever you
Speaker 5: want to call it. No matter what I say, when
Speaker 5: I say that golf of you know what, somebody gets mad.
Speaker 5: If I call it the Golf of Mexico. Somebody will say, no,
Speaker 5: it's the Golf of America, and the other way around.
Speaker 5: So there were people traveling from the Yucatan to what
Speaker 5: we call Florida and to Louisiana. Some of them were
Speaker 5: probably going around on land. They were traveling, they were
Speaker 5: bringing culture, they were doing cultural and people exchanges. But
Speaker 5: it was occurring on a massive level in the Southwest
Speaker 5: this is now known. And this massive group of people
Speaker 5: coming into the Southwest brought this culture with them, and
Speaker 5: it was a culture of kings. You'll hear this. You'll
Speaker 5: hear people talking about chiefs all the time. And the
Speaker 5: first time that I started saying Native Americans had kings,
Speaker 5: at least at Kahokia they had a king. And that's
Speaker 5: only been the last year where I've found that out,
Speaker 5: and it's from mainstream archaeologists, so it's causing a revolution
Speaker 5: and archaeologists. But what they did was take this into
Speaker 5: that area called American Bottom where Cohokia, Illinois is American Bottom.
Speaker 5: They brought this type of corn or maize, which grows
Speaker 5: really well, produced an astonishing surplus of food, and literally
Speaker 5: tens of thousands of people came in there. And you'll
Speaker 5: hear if you look on Wikipedia or other places, they'll
Speaker 5: tell you, oh, the population of Cohokia was five, maybe
Speaker 5: ten thousand people, and then some will say, well, there
Speaker 5: might have been twenty thousand in the area, but now
Speaker 5: it is at least twenty thousand people right at the
Speaker 5: core of Kohoki, and another thirty thousand living right around it,
Speaker 5: like in the suburb. The immediate suburbs. So in an
Speaker 5: area of a radius or let's say a diameter of
Speaker 5: ten miles, a circle of ten miles, you had fifty
Speaker 5: thousand people or more, and then a lot more living
Speaker 5: outside of that. But in the year eleven fifty it collapsed.
Speaker 5: And when it collapsed, this is the great mystery that
Speaker 5: comes up about Kahokia. Where did everybody go? Where did
Speaker 5: they go? I mean, you see that on ancient Aliens,
Speaker 5: you see it on other places, and where they went
Speaker 5: as well. And what happened was that there was a
Speaker 5: massive drought. The people were being controlled and were going
Speaker 5: along with this kingship idea because and what I'll call
Speaker 5: the path of Soul's ideology. That that term is from
Speaker 5: a book that I wrote in twenty fourteen, and it's
Speaker 5: their belief system about what happens to you when you
Speaker 5: die and how to control where you go when you die.
Speaker 5: That's the path of souls. It involved the use of
Speaker 5: hallucinogenic substances, It involved the use of ritual, that involved
Speaker 5: the use of these geometric earthworks. But when the drought occurred,
Speaker 5: people lost faith in the king, they lost faith in
Speaker 5: the system, and they were starving, so they left and
Speaker 5: then around the year twelve hundred, fifty years later, these
Speaker 5: same types of sites as Kahokia, with these gigantic platform
Speaker 5: mounds and multiple mounds. And by the way, Kahokia was
Speaker 5: a walled fortress. It had walls twenty feet high. And
Speaker 5: right after Kahokia, around the year twelve hundred, you have
Speaker 5: hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of small towns and cities
Speaker 5: that are walled fortresses popping up from Wisconsin, in Michigan
Speaker 5: and in Pennsylvania, in Florida, in Alabama and Louisiana and Texas,
Speaker 5: all over the place. So I don't know how I
Speaker 5: got to that, uh, but I'll end with that because
Speaker 5: I can talk your whole time. I don't I don't
Speaker 5: need to do that.
Speaker 6: I think we started. There's Greg on the Adena, folks.
Speaker 6: That's one of my great answers. I actually lived just
Speaker 6: up the road from Chili Coffee today, so I'm uh,
Speaker 6: And that's kind of I always explained that as the
Speaker 6: you were to look at a map and make a
Speaker 6: bullseye of all the activity of the Diana Mounds, that's
Speaker 6: kind of the bulls eyes that is.
Speaker 5: That is the bullseye of it. But there are Dina
Speaker 5: mounds in Tennessee. I live in Tennessee. Sure, so there
Speaker 5: are Dina mounds here. Uh, there are a lot of
Speaker 5: them in Kentucky. Of course, it's pretty close to the
Speaker 5: Ohio River. Uh. Sure, yeah, New York as well, right,
Speaker 5: they stretch up Yeah, Pennsylvania. The biggest mound in Pennsylvania
Speaker 5: was called mcke's maun uh and it was a giant
Speaker 5: adena man mh.
Speaker 8: Well, it is also interesting that the Mohas releasing okay uh,
Speaker 8: but that the Mohawk they have like a swastika type.
Speaker 8: They call it like the Northern Gate, the Eastern Gate,
Speaker 8: and it's like the it's the different tribes, the Seneca,
Speaker 8: the Mohawk, and each one is a guardian of that
Speaker 8: specific gate. So I know from like the Quebec Ontario border,
Speaker 8: there's obviously the Khanawuage and so they are the guardians
Speaker 8: of the Eastern Gate. And some say that the womp
Speaker 8: and belt that they hold is actually the Confederation Document
Speaker 8: of Canada because the Crown doesn't actually have one. So
Speaker 8: that is an interesting kind of Canadian conspiracy layer. But no,
Speaker 8: I agree with what Casey said, but that the southern
Speaker 8: sort of buildings that were more grand. But in defense
Speaker 8: of like the Great White North, we'll say the far
Speaker 8: northern archaeology is very under explored. And there obviously was
Speaker 8: those studies in the Yukon that got I guess academically
Speaker 8: canceled because they upset indigenous sort of oral stories about
Speaker 8: the history of that area. But I have seen Sundance
Speaker 8: wheels and like stone ones that are they say are
Speaker 8: thousands of years old, So I have seen those in
Speaker 8: northern Alberta, so I know that there is something that
Speaker 8: is like very interesting. I've also been to Sundance several times,
Speaker 8: so I don't know, but yeah, I mean it's a
Speaker 8: I think that you're right though. I think you see
Speaker 8: like a great movement of people, like I always say,
Speaker 8: like the Navajo, they only went in the fourteen hundreds, Yeah,
Speaker 8: right right, and they're related to people from that are
Speaker 8: They call themselves Dene, so they're even their language didn't
Speaker 8: change that much in those like seven hundred years of
Speaker 8: walking down south, I guess.
Speaker 7: So yeah, so I think.
Speaker 8: It's really interesting, but culturally very different. You have like
Speaker 8: a planes cosmology, Subarctic cosmology. They believe in rebirth and
Speaker 8: reincarnation and they're very specific that they do not practice
Speaker 8: counterclockwise medicine, whereas Navajos do have a night chant counterclockwise
Speaker 8: medicine tradition.
Speaker 5: When Navajos didn't use mounds either, Navajos would sometimes take
Speaker 5: bodies and dump them in a cave that was it,
Speaker 5: that was the burial, or put them in a crevice somewhere.
Speaker 5: I do have some Seneca in my background within the family,
Speaker 5: and I've always kind of identified I'm originally from Pennsylvania
Speaker 5: and there was a lot of Native American lore there.
Speaker 5: I will say that that I have so many people
Speaker 5: in Canada that had asked about mounds there, and I
Speaker 5: have a collection of mounds that were there, collection of
Speaker 5: photos and information. Somebody asked me last week, where's the
Speaker 5: northernmost mound that I know of in North America? And
Speaker 5: I can't pronounce it because the name changed, But it's
Speaker 5: actually in what used to be called Barrow, Alaska, which
Speaker 5: is as far north in Alaska as you can go,
Speaker 5: right at that top of Alaska and the Aleutian Islands.
Speaker 5: One island called Rat Island in the Aleutian Islands has
Speaker 5: five hundred mounds on it. Just one small island in
Speaker 5: the Aleutians, but all the Allusian islands are covered with them.
Speaker 5: Canada has a lot. I would suspect there are thousands
Speaker 5: of Canada in Canada that are not documented, which means
Speaker 5: registered with the government, with the agencies and their practices.
Speaker 5: The practices of the first people there were very similar
Speaker 5: to like the Seneca and the Mohawk and the Five
Speaker 5: Tribes and so on. And the swastika is a very
Speaker 5: big deal. I don't show these much, but I have
Speaker 5: a whole bunch of magazines and photos of class commencements
Speaker 5: from Pennsylvania schools Indian schools that the whole front of
Speaker 5: the commencement booklet like it's a booklet and it's got
Speaker 5: rows of swastika is on it all over it, and
Speaker 5: that was the symbol of the school, the swastika. I
Speaker 5: have pictures of Native American basketball teams and they're on
Speaker 5: their jerseys for swastikas. Swastikas were it was considered a
Speaker 5: symbol of good luck. It was a symbol of wisdom also,
Speaker 5: and I'm sure it was far deeper than that. But
Speaker 5: I do know that the mound Builder's cosmology with this
Speaker 5: path of soul's idea, I don't know how much that
Speaker 5: transfers to say, the Northern the Northern tribes, but I
Speaker 5: do know that they have the same basic beliefs as
Speaker 5: the Navajo. There's some shared underlying cosmology and belief system
Speaker 5: with all of them, and it appears to be the
Speaker 5: same cosmology and a lot of Asian and even European cultures.
Speaker 5: Andrew Collins is one of my good friends. He stays
Speaker 5: with us a couple of times a year. We go
Speaker 5: over to England and stay with him a couple of
Speaker 5: times a year. And Andrew and I have written quite
Speaker 5: a few books together and made a lot of videos together.
Speaker 5: But Andrew studies that stuff in the cultures in Europe,
Speaker 5: and that's what we have collaborated on. I'll do the
Speaker 5: Native American stuff and he does the European stuff. But
Speaker 5: there's some ancient system of beliefs about the body and
Speaker 5: about spirituality and the soul and what happens when we
Speaker 5: die that appears to be almost universal and what we're yeah,
Speaker 5: what we're seeing in the Native American low at least,
Speaker 5: is their side of that universal belief system.
Speaker 6: That's nice because there is definitely a crossover between the
Speaker 6: European the European as and sites in America. And I
Speaker 6: years ago on my podcast, I did a comparison of Liverpool,
Speaker 6: England and East Liverpool, Ohio, and you know they're both
Speaker 6: founded on mound sites, and you know it's distinctively similar
Speaker 6: kind of setups.
Speaker 7: And you know there's a there's an.
Speaker 6: Ancient site over there, I forget where in England, but
Speaker 6: it's called the Roman Mounds. I think that the Roman
Speaker 6: road Mounds.
Speaker 5: I have been to those, I have I've posted Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 5: my nice. They're giant mounds. They look just like mounds
Speaker 5: in the United States, but they're really big.
Speaker 7: Yeah, they look just like Hopewell Mounds to me.
Speaker 6: I mean they literally looked like some of the ones
Speaker 6: you see in Chili Cauity at the Hope.
Speaker 7: Well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there there's a lot of those. The Roman Mounds
Speaker 5: are really they're much bigger than what they than the
Speaker 5: older mounds in England. There's mounds in Sweden. When I
Speaker 5: got on Twitter, I've got great photos from traveling around
Speaker 5: in Sweden and that was actually a criminal justice thing.
Speaker 5: I went to Sweden as a criminal justice consultant for
Speaker 5: them and wound up traveling all over the country, which
Speaker 5: was bizarre uh and went to mound sites all over
Speaker 5: the place.
Speaker 6: That's exactly what I do when I travel as well,
Speaker 6: I just when I used to do. I did twenty
Speaker 6: years in the Air Force, and wherever I was in
Speaker 6: the US, traveling a different Air Force bus as I
Speaker 6: was going to mountd sites.
Speaker 5: I'll mention one other thing here about the common allies
Speaker 5: and belief system. I know you know who Graham Hancock is. Okay, so,
Speaker 5: and you probably have heard of Andrew Collins. Andrew is
Speaker 5: on almost every Ancient Aliens episode, and he's on the
Speaker 5: William Shatner Show and several others. He pops up all
Speaker 5: the time. Andrew had an alternative theory about the Great
Speaker 5: Pyramid and the Three, the Three, the three pyramids at Giza,
Speaker 5: and of course Graham Hancock believes that they are aligned
Speaker 5: with Orion, which came from Robert Bouvall. Of course, and
Speaker 5: so Andrew did some work and he wrote a book
Speaker 5: called The Signas Mystery, because an engineer has said, well,
Speaker 5: the stars of Signus, which is the northern cross, the
Speaker 5: three the three main it's actually the cross the t
Speaker 5: of Signus. Those three stars fit the pyramids better. So
Speaker 5: Graham didn't like that. Graham and Andrew are good friends.
Speaker 5: At the time, I didn't know Graham. I do know
Speaker 5: Graham now pretty well and have interacted with him quite
Speaker 5: a lot. But Graham said, signus is ridiculous, it's not
Speaker 5: part of it. Well, when the book Path of Souls
Speaker 5: came out in twenty fourteen, Andrew wrote the introduction to it,
Speaker 5: and Graham wound up buying The Path of Souls and
Speaker 5: then he contacted me, and it was astonishing because in
Speaker 5: the Path of Souls it talks about this belief system
Speaker 5: of Native Americans. When they die, they do this ceremony
Speaker 5: for the soul, and the ceremony is done on the
Speaker 5: winter solstice, and it's aimed at Oryan. You have to
Speaker 5: aim it at Oryan. So you might do a cremation
Speaker 5: on the top of a crematory mound, and you have
Speaker 5: a enclosure around the mound like earthworks. Hope well, earthworks,
Speaker 5: But there's an opening and the soul is propelled through
Speaker 5: that opening, and it has to happen on the winter
Speaker 5: solstice sunrise. They've got a two week window to do it,
Speaker 5: and the soul makes a leap toward Orion's nebula, which
Speaker 5: is called Messa forty three, and it's right under the
Speaker 5: three Belt stars, and it has to occur right before
Speaker 5: the sun rises and blots it out, so Oriyon sets
Speaker 5: into the western horizon. Then the soul tucks into Messa
Speaker 5: forty three. There's actually a depiction of this in lots
Speaker 5: of Native American pottery and in lots of their iconography.
Speaker 5: And the soul then traverses the underworld during the day,
Speaker 5: so it makes a safe passage in the underworld, tucked
Speaker 5: in to an ogie is the term they use, that
Speaker 5: spelled ogee. The soul goes under and around and it
Speaker 5: comes up the next night on the eastern horizon, which
Speaker 5: is where Oryon rises, and then of course it crosses
Speaker 5: the sky and sets in the western horizon when it
Speaker 5: comes up when it's first scene to night, the soul
Speaker 5: comes out of this of messy or this ogie. It
Speaker 5: hops on the Milky Way and makes a journey that
Speaker 5: lasts a while on the Path of Souls or the
Speaker 5: ghost Trail as some Native American tribes call it, to
Speaker 5: signus and at the Signals constellation it meets a gigantic
Speaker 5: raptor bird, which is a judge, and then it has
Speaker 5: these trials, and the judge is at the fork of
Speaker 5: the milky way. One side of the milky way is
Speaker 5: a dead end. The other side continues on. If the
Speaker 5: soul is found worthy and not burdened by its deeds
Speaker 5: on Earth, it is allowed to pass, and it goes
Speaker 5: to another portal or ogi, and it goes to the
Speaker 5: other world. Well, when Graham saw that, Graham researched the
Speaker 5: same stuff and said, oh my God. I was at
Speaker 5: a conference with Graham and he stood up. He showed
Speaker 5: the cover of Path of Souls, and he said, Okay,
Speaker 5: I got to admit it that the Path of Soul,
Speaker 5: it's the same thing that the ancient Egyptians were doing.
Speaker 5: That it's the exact same kind of cosmology, and it's shown.
Speaker 5: They showed it slightly different. But that's where the idea
Speaker 5: comes from. What I've said that there's a shared belief
Speaker 5: system here that is across massive cultures, and there's no
Speaker 5: real way to explain it except I do believe that
Speaker 5: ancient America had lots of people come in and out
Speaker 5: many many times, many intrusions. I will say this that
Speaker 5: if a thousand men came, let's say, a thousand guys
Speaker 5: from England came in, which isn't what I'm claiming. But
Speaker 5: let's say a thousand Vikings came in. If they were
Speaker 5: all men, they wouldn't leave a trace of themselves with
Speaker 5: Native Americans, not a genetic trace if you're looking at
Speaker 5: ancient DNA, which is mitochondrial DNA, because mitochondrial DNA only
Speaker 5: comes from the female side. So even if the those
Speaker 5: Vikings had inner bred and had you know, thousands and
Speaker 5: thousands and thousands of children that and their descendants are
Speaker 5: still alive today, they wouldn't have a genetic trace with
Speaker 5: mitochondrial DNA.
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to ask about.
Speaker 1: If you thought that there had been some you know,
Speaker 1: intermeshing with the Vikings and the Lansau you know meadows,
Speaker 1: and then yeah, I mean just with the mcmac. I'm
Speaker 1: I'm McK mac, and I know they rather would be
Speaker 1: called migmog now. But I had some Canadian guests right
Speaker 1: in and talk to me about this, and then I
Speaker 1: studied it more because it was fascinating, and so I
Speaker 1: was going to ask about that if you thought maybe
Speaker 1: that's why those people were described as white, you know,
Speaker 1: like I.
Speaker 5: Think that I even believe with along with Scott Walter,
Speaker 5: whom now friends with. Scott believes that the Templars came
Speaker 5: in there and that their their flag or their symbol
Speaker 5: came from the Templars. And while mainstream archaeologists hate this stuff,
Speaker 5: they hate it because they've said for so long that
Speaker 5: you know, it didn't happen, didn't happen, And now more
Speaker 5: and more evidence comes up, and I think it probably
Speaker 5: did happen. I think the Chinese came in the West
Speaker 5: Coast too, there were Chinese. There's actually native American DNA
Speaker 5: that perfectly matches what we would call formo well Taiwan. Sorry,
Speaker 5: I can't say foremost it's a dirty word. It used
Speaker 5: to be called that when I was in school, that
Speaker 5: they made him change the name. Long story.
Speaker 7: There the other China, yes, the original China.
Speaker 5: But also Japan. There is a great deal of evidence
Speaker 5: that the genetic evidence that there are Japanese descendants that
Speaker 5: came into the Americas, and there is a group living
Speaker 5: in Brazil. There is a Brazilian tribe that is right
Speaker 5: now that is an identical match to the the indigenous
Speaker 5: people of Australia and New Zealand.
Speaker 1: Well, so much of that native and I've talked about
Speaker 1: this a lot on my channel and it goes clear
Speaker 1: into Mormonism. I totally think that not only the Templar
Speaker 1: tradition came in, but Martinist tradition where they were practicing
Speaker 1: solomonic magic. And you see it with these native tribes
Speaker 1: as well, Like I mean, they can't chuck it out,
Speaker 1: but they hate it. They hate it.
Speaker 5: So yeah, it's it's a really interesting topic and it's
Speaker 5: a it's a bottomless pit to talk about.
Speaker 8: It is interesting that in Canada to be on the
Speaker 8: Indian Act, to be part of like a covered under
Speaker 8: the Indian Act, you have to use your mRNA to
Speaker 8: enroll tribally. So they use the mRNA specifically to prove
Speaker 8: tribal enrollment here. Now this is very different than the
Speaker 8: US and how it works, and we have like a
Speaker 8: whole federal bureaucracy that covers tribal identity and all that.
Speaker 8: But it is very interesting and like the idea of
Speaker 8: land claims like you guys are talking about, like Martinism,
Speaker 8: and I agree, I think that there was a templar
Speaker 8: influence because if you look at treaty chiefs, especially the
Speaker 8: numbered treaties, so in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba part of Ontario.
Speaker 8: These are called the Numbered Treaties. So these were like
Speaker 8: the major, major treaties that sort of set up the
Speaker 8: founding of Canada really because the treaties are with the crown.
Speaker 8: So all the treaty chiefs had blue eyes. All the
Speaker 8: treaty chiefs signatories, so it is interesting. And they were
Speaker 8: all mixed race, but more explicitly mixed race, not like
Speaker 8: mixed race like me where they're like half half. Not
Speaker 8: that they were like secretly. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 8: if they were, but they were like French, Canadian or
Speaker 8: Scottish usually those are usually the two things. And in
Speaker 8: regards to Chinese ethnicity in on the West Coast, this
Speaker 8: is something I actually studied a little bit. And so
Speaker 8: so there is a more recent explanation. And when we
Speaker 8: uh JJ and Nick and I can't remember who else
Speaker 8: was there, but we did the big trouble in Little China,
Speaker 8: so we talked a little bit. Yeah, and so we
Speaker 8: talked a little bit about this. So the Chinese when
Speaker 8: they first came to North America, they didn't were not
Speaker 8: allowed to bring women. So there was actually a high
Speaker 8: degree of inter marriage between the two communities, and even
Speaker 8: like Jennifer Tilly is the most famous example, but there's
Speaker 8: actually most people from those islands, like you were talking
Speaker 8: about the Aleutian Islands in Yukavic and so the Vancouver Islands,
Speaker 8: a lot of those native people actually have Chinese grandparents
Speaker 8: or Chinese ancestry of significant degree. They were saying, it's
Speaker 8: upwards of thirty percent of them. So that's considered significant
Speaker 8: for like an ethnic Studi's kind of demography. So it
Speaker 8: is interesting, but I just think it might be more recent,
Speaker 8: but it definitely exists, and people were definitely seeing systems
Speaker 8: the same, like the medicine societies, like the Metawun societies. Yeah,
Speaker 8: there's definitely overlap with like freemasonry and like Cabala and
Speaker 8: how they understand sort of the cosmology. And you look
Speaker 8: at medicine wheels and the colors all match and it
Speaker 8: looks like malkouth on the Cabala stick tree. But then
Speaker 8: you understand like it turns and there's all this build out,
Speaker 8: but it's all oral, right, So that's sort of the
Speaker 8: difference between like the more European stuff and the obviously
Speaker 8: the more indigenous stuff. It's also interesting, Greg about your
Speaker 8: point about Kahokia, because in Cree tradition, if a society collapsed,
Speaker 8: they would just disperse into small family bands, and that's
Speaker 8: totally fine. It was a very kind of anarchic existence.
Speaker 8: So if it seems like they were drawing more from
Speaker 8: the Cherokee kind of culture nexus, because the five civilized shrubs, interestingly,
Speaker 8: are all part of the same ethno linguistic family, right,
Speaker 8: and they don't clude like these other people that we're
Speaker 8: talking about, like how you was talking about Nyckmah. So
Speaker 8: they're Algonquin speakers. I'm talking about Cree people. They're algonquin speakers.
Speaker 8: Denny people are not Algonquin speakers, but they're part of
Speaker 8: an arctic thing. So they've clearly adopted the religion as
Speaker 8: they move south, if you want to call it like
Speaker 8: an axial religion, like they started absorbing the practices as
Speaker 8: they moved into the Southwest. That's how I think of it.
Speaker 5: I don't know if you agree with that or not.
Speaker 5: Holy cam Man, you said so much I'd like to
Speaker 5: ask you about or comment on. One of the things
Speaker 5: is go back to your beginning when you mentioned that
Speaker 5: they I think you said they use mitochondrial DNA for
Speaker 5: tribal identity or to get in to be officially recognized.
Speaker 5: Is that right.
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's especially been a big push in the last
Speaker 8: like twenty years among particularly like native academics, like non
Speaker 8: scientist native academics.
Speaker 5: As so, what are the identity what are the half
Speaker 5: of groups they accept ABCDX, im adcd X.
Speaker 8: I am not the one to ask for this, but
Speaker 8: there is. There is a two thousand, I want to say,
Speaker 8: two thousand and four book by Kim Tolbert, and she
Speaker 8: talks all about this. I'm not saying I agree with
Speaker 8: her conclusions. I don't actually agree, but that is the
Speaker 8: book to reference because that's like she makes the case
Speaker 8: for like tribal DNA or tribal identity being tied to mRNA.
Speaker 5: Okay, so in North America, I'm sorry, In the United States,
Speaker 5: there's about I know of about one hundred studies where
Speaker 5: they took skeletal This is before nagpro got some teeth
Speaker 5: and stopped it, but there's about one hundred studies where
Speaker 5: skeletal remains from mounds were tested for mitochondrial DNA. And
Speaker 5: this began actually in the nineteen eighties, and it began
Speaker 5: when the National Institutes of Health were trying to find
Speaker 5: the genetic cause of certain dis diseases that the Pima
Speaker 5: tribe in Southwest America and the big the Blackfoot tribe
Speaker 5: in the north I'll call it Northwest area Central area
Speaker 5: of the United States. And so as a test they
Speaker 5: took nuclear DNA from them, which you get from blood.
Speaker 5: But they also took mitochondrial DNA as a test, and
Speaker 5: they were surprised. The reason they took mitochondrial DNA is
Speaker 5: because they believed that the mitochondria, which are a type
Speaker 5: of vestigial bacteria, that the mitochondria probably didn't mutate. They
Speaker 5: had a very simple DNA structure, and they were shocked.
Speaker 5: They came up with four different types of mitochondrial DNA,
Speaker 5: and because it was convenient for them and they were shocked,
Speaker 5: they said, oh, what do we call them. Let's call
Speaker 5: them ABCD. And all of that came from North America,
Speaker 5: so a media or from the United States. Immediately they
Speaker 5: started testing these skeleton remains out of mounds, and sure
Speaker 5: enough they found ABC and D. So at that time
Speaker 5: archaeologists from the United States went to Siberia and started
Speaker 5: testing Siberian natives that had lived there their entire lives,
Speaker 5: and they found sure enough, they had a C and D.
Speaker 5: They then tested some people in Japan and China and
Speaker 5: found that they had B. That these are called Happler
Speaker 5: groups or haplotypes, and so they said, ah, we've proven
Speaker 5: that all of the Native Americans came from Siberia across Beringia.
Speaker 5: That was it initially, and then they found one they
Speaker 5: couldn't explain in skeleton remains and in the testing of
Speaker 5: living Native Americans it started popping up about one to
Speaker 5: two to three percent of Native Americans had it, and
Speaker 5: they couldn't They were shocked. They hadn't found any of
Speaker 5: it anywhere else except in the skeletonym and in living
Speaker 5: Native Americans. And they call it X. They literally called
Speaker 5: the fifth one X. And it's astonishing. So Happler group
Speaker 5: X made them start looking everywhere around the world. And
Speaker 5: today there are thirty two major haplogroups of mitochondrial DNA.
Speaker 5: And if you've ever heard of mitochondrial EVE, it's based
Speaker 5: upon all these Happler group studies that began around nineteen
Speaker 5: eighty two by the National Institute's of Health, designed to
Speaker 5: study Native American genetic diseases. That's where it all came from.
Speaker 5: So HAPLA group X and A. It's a time machine.
Speaker 5: It's very difficult to explain this, but mitochondria have mutations
Speaker 5: on a fairly regular rate, so many thousands of years
Speaker 5: as I recall it, fivey one hundred and some odd
Speaker 5: number of years as the average, but it mutates. So
Speaker 5: by removing remains from cemeteries and knowing when these remains
Speaker 5: were buried, which is something they've actually done all over
Speaker 5: the place, they can tell when these different HAPLA groups
Speaker 5: developed in different areas of the world. One good example
Speaker 5: is HAPLA group X. A place where it popped up
Speaker 5: to very high degree is in the Pyrenees Mountains in
Speaker 5: five to six thousand year old cemeteries in the Pyrenees.
Speaker 5: Anybody know who the people that lived in the Pyrenees
Speaker 5: were the very pardon the Basques, correct, the Basques. Nobody
Speaker 5: knows where the Basques come from, including the Basque. They
Speaker 5: don't seem to know. So it's a very unusual group
Speaker 5: of people. By the way, that's a place where Edgar
Speaker 5: Casey said the Atlanteans went. Also, in addition to North America,
Speaker 5: they went to the Basque or to the Pyrenees mountains anyway.
Speaker 5: So that's one of the things I wanted to ask
Speaker 5: you about. If they're using Happler Group's A, B, C,
Speaker 5: and D, which was the first ones found. And I
Speaker 5: have read a bit out of Canada of skeletal remain research,
Speaker 5: all of which was done in the early eighties and
Speaker 5: very early nineties, but all of that has come to
Speaker 5: a halt, at least a part where they're looking at
Speaker 5: the skeletal remains. There's a fellow and go to another
Speaker 5: thing you said, there's a fellow by the name of
Speaker 5: Pd Newman who has a recent book called Tripping on
Speaker 5: the Trail of Ghosts, which he started when he read
Speaker 5: Path of Souls and had a discussion with Graham Hancock.
Speaker 5: It was Graham Hancock who told him you needed to
Speaker 5: read this book Path of Souls at a conference in England.
Speaker 5: So Pd is an expert in masonry, is a thirty
Speaker 5: second degree Mason, and he wrote a book on the Theoredy,
Speaker 5: and so he wrote this book, Tripping on the Path
Speaker 5: of Souls, which is about the Mida One ceremony, which
Speaker 5: involves an ayahuasca like substance that Native Americans. We know
Speaker 5: they were using ayahuasca. Course is the substance, the DMT
Speaker 5: substance used in South America, but it was also being
Speaker 5: used here in North America. And it's shown the way
Speaker 5: to make it and how it's used is in some
Speaker 5: of the midi one ceremonies that are in the in
Speaker 5: the literature, the ethnography literature from the eighteen hundreds, and
Speaker 5: they were using a lot of hallucinogens in this school.
Speaker 8: Yeah, yeah, I'm really familiar with the Daniel Mormon's he
Speaker 8: wrote like that huge the first huge compendium on like
Speaker 8: the ethnobotanical uc I'm.
Speaker 5: Sure from that, yeah, everybody book.
Speaker 8: So in my opinion, this is just my theory. This
Speaker 8: is coming to something I'm just playing with. But I
Speaker 8: actually think it might because Pasaflora so passion flower is
Speaker 8: a really good Maoi inhibitor actually, and so I actually
Speaker 8: think that that is what was utilized because you can
Speaker 8: see a lot of I'm really interested in syncretism. So
Speaker 8: what I used to think about a lot was kind
Speaker 8: of like the syncretism between like indigenous pathways and like falsism,
Speaker 8: because in Canada especially, most Native people are Catholic, so
Speaker 8: you see a lot more syncretism in those kind of churches,
Speaker 8: in those kind of regions. So I was the idea
Speaker 8: that the a passion flower like whe of European thoughts
Speaker 8: said that, okay, that is like the Christ, like the
Speaker 8: explosion of like you could say, like the splendor of God,
Speaker 8: like the explosion of like a religious experience, and like
Speaker 8: an indigenous person would say that they would have maybe
Speaker 8: a different cosmological reasoning that they would see the same thing.
Speaker 8: They would they would know that that's from the Creator,
Speaker 8: from whatever, from the spirit. So I just think that
Speaker 8: that's really interesting, and so I just I vote past
Speaker 8: the flora for.
Speaker 5: My exactly what PD Newman says, that's one of the
Speaker 5: main substances. In fact, he travels now to mounds all
Speaker 5: over the country and looking at what's growing around the mounds,
Speaker 5: he passion flower was found that most sites, along with
Speaker 5: the the DMT, the main substance or the main plant
Speaker 5: that it came from is honey locust trees, and it
Speaker 5: is in the roots of honeylocusts. So they would mix
Speaker 5: passion flower with honeylocust, with the roots of honeylocust, and
Speaker 5: it created the same experience as you get with ayahuasca.
Speaker 5: He's also found psilocybin mushrooms virtually everywhere around them, amanita
Speaker 5: mushrooms mainly in the a little further north, and many
Speaker 5: many other substances, although deta was also used with well
Speaker 5: all the tribes used to Terra, and a lot of
Speaker 5: these substances have been found in the residual studies that
Speaker 5: have been done on pipes and various pottery that's been found.
Speaker 5: There are hundreds of studies where they've taken ancient pottery
Speaker 5: and ancient pipes that have been excavated from mount and
Speaker 5: then chemically analyzed what sent them. Passion flower, the root
Speaker 5: from the honeylocust tree, lots of mushroom those are found
Speaker 5: in it, and detera, and of course tobacco in the pipes.
Speaker 5: So many people want to believe they smoke marijuana, but
Speaker 5: it wasn't. Around thousands of years ago, it wasn't. Yeah,
Speaker 5: so just go off.
Speaker 8: Something you said, Greg really quickly, is honey locus is
Speaker 8: actually in the same family as acacia, So you see,
Speaker 8: And it's also interesting to note that a lot of
Speaker 8: the flora of North America is actually much more closely
Speaker 8: related to the flora of Asia and like the sort
Speaker 8: of like that part of coastal Russia, I guess you
Speaker 8: could say than it is to Europe, like most of
Speaker 8: our native species are much closer to that, and so
Speaker 8: that is considered to be of greater ethno botanical or
Speaker 8: ethno medicinal potential, like where European herbs. There's an idea
Speaker 8: in Culpepper where he says, like the herbs for the
Speaker 8: people grow around those people. So in like England, they
Speaker 8: just need like the common herbs they're fine with, like
Speaker 8: comfrey and coleenjula, but like the the more quote unquote
Speaker 8: air quotes jj civilized you you go, the more eastward,
Speaker 8: the more dense the population, you need plague medicines, you
Speaker 8: need like complicated medicinal compounds. So the herbs neces necessarily
Speaker 8: have to be and thank you necessarily have to be
Speaker 8: more potent. So it is interesting that we share or
Speaker 8: not we but you know North Americans we share like
Speaker 8: that our herbs also have a high degree of medicinal potency.
Speaker 5: You are very knowledgeable about that. I have to admit
Speaker 5: that I've never met anybody on any show that I've done,
Speaker 5: and believe me, I have done well. I started in
Speaker 5: the eighties, and back in those days, you had to
Speaker 5: actually go into the booth uh to do radio shows.
Speaker 5: But I did hundreds of radio shows back then. UH.
Speaker 5: But I've never hit anybody that knew all this. Uh.
Speaker 5: And you are a men. It's amazing.
Speaker 2: That's why he's.
Speaker 8: Thank you so much. Greg.
Speaker 5: I appreciate what PD has found, and he's actually gone
Speaker 5: and taken this stuff into academic archaeologists talk to him
Speaker 5: in their labs, and what they've found is that shaman
Speaker 5: were carrying around these these medical or you know, the
Speaker 5: medicines that they needed, and they planted them near the
Speaker 5: mound sites. So he's found like acacia, and he's found
Speaker 5: a lot of these oh honeylocust plants growing around the
Speaker 5: mound sites. And there's too many. It had to be
Speaker 5: planted there. But it's all over the place. Now we're
Speaker 5: only talking about certain kinds of mound sites where this
Speaker 5: path the soul's ideology was present, where you know, you
Speaker 5: were sending the soul to the stars, and so you
Speaker 5: had to use these substances. And of course the whole
Speaker 5: Middle One story that all that, all that mythology is
Speaker 5: tied into this.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 5: So PD has has written about how amazing, uh, this
Speaker 5: mythology that is in these you know, these these verbal
Speaker 5: stories told from one generation to another to another appear
Speaker 5: to be pretty accurate even now that they're thousands of
Speaker 5: years old altogether, because they've been passed down for thousands
Speaker 5: of years. But they are they are stories telling people
Speaker 5: how to use it and what happens on the path
Speaker 5: as you are using it. Anyway, I'm going off on
Speaker 5: another tangent here.
Speaker 8: No, I don't think you are at all, because I
Speaker 8: think that there is there's a relationship between like what
Speaker 8: PD's talking about, what you're talking about with the mounds
Speaker 8: and with like the civilizational sites around. I know JJ
Speaker 8: is also like probably loves us right now, is that
Speaker 8: like the civilizational sites being centered around the mounds. And
Speaker 8: I think that that's true. And I also think that
Speaker 8: there is like a biodynamic reason too, because like the
Speaker 8: obviously the further north you go, it gets really harsh
Speaker 8: in the winters, so you would like you necessitate a
Speaker 8: different kind of social organization. But like even in Illinois
Speaker 8: that's kind of like that's still not that's still not warm, right,
Speaker 8: like you know, so you you would have to you
Speaker 8: would have to have something that sort of drew people
Speaker 8: in ideologically or politically or or spiritually. As you're arguing,
Speaker 8: like with the idea of the king, that makes a
Speaker 8: lot of sense, right, it's very logical.
Speaker 5: Well, and Illinois, here's one of the things that they
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm talking about all the specific evidence, of course,
Speaker 5: the evidence, the evidence of interaction. Rubber balls from that
Speaker 5: came from rubber from Central America have been found at
Speaker 5: Jhokum ball court sites and the ball courts. Now we're
Speaker 5: talking about ancient When I say ball courts, we're talking
Speaker 5: about things that are a couple thousand years old. And chocolate.
Speaker 5: Chocolate has been found in residue studies at Ettawa, Georgia,
Speaker 5: at the site of Ediwa, and the only place it
Speaker 5: comes from is Central America, Yucatan, Central America. There is
Speaker 5: no chocolate that grows further north. These are just two
Speaker 5: pieces of evidence about it. Gosh Okay. So another thing
Speaker 5: is round. There are round, flat top mounds. So when
Speaker 5: I say round, the base is not square like a
Speaker 5: pyramid or even rectangular. It's perfectly round. Some of these
Speaker 5: are ten twenty feet high thirty feet high, so they're
Speaker 5: very big around. They're found at Jojokam sites in Arizona.
Speaker 5: Arizona has hundreds of platform mounds. Most people don't know
Speaker 5: that they have it because they're now covered from thousands
Speaker 5: of years, you know, sand blowing on them and building
Speaker 5: collapses on them. But there's a couple thousand platform mouns.
Speaker 5: There's about one hundred and fifty to two hundred that
Speaker 5: you can go see. But the round ones apparently all
Speaker 5: came up from the South. They came up from meso
Speaker 5: American cultures, and those round ones then were seen in
Speaker 5: what are called Cato Lands, which are mainly in Arkansas
Speaker 5: and parts of Texas and parts of Oklahoma. And then
Speaker 5: the Cato were the ones that carried them over and
Speaker 5: started Kahokia. Well what they were there's two things they're
Speaker 5: used for. One of them is they were literally performance mounds.
Speaker 5: And when I say a performance mound, it's like you'd
Speaker 5: have a stage. They were a stage, and they were
Speaker 5: stages for both religious and for some sort of political
Speaker 5: or other use. And there were others that are literally
Speaker 5: now called water temples in archaeology. And so at the
Speaker 5: top of these mounds they built these big buildings and
Speaker 5: we know, like the big building on the top of
Speaker 5: Monks Mound Atkahokia was one hundred feet long, fifty feet wide,
Speaker 5: and it was fifty feet tall. This is all known.
Speaker 5: This is mainstream archaeology. So it was a five thousand
Speaker 5: square foot building on the floor and it probably had
Speaker 5: multiple levels, although we don't know that. But it's not
Speaker 5: the biggest building that's ever found that was ever found.
Speaker 5: The biggest one that I'm aware of was in Safety
Speaker 5: Safety Harbor, Florida, where the Spanish went in and met
Speaker 5: the His name was Carlos, at least that's what they
Speaker 5: called him, the cask and inside where he was. I've
Speaker 5: posted pictures of this because the University of Florida's the
Speaker 5: museum at the University of Florida, which is called the
Speaker 5: Florida Natural History Museum, has a full sized diorama of this,
Speaker 5: which all comes from what the Spanish said, and they
Speaker 5: said that five thousand people would have easily stood in
Speaker 5: this building where the king lived five thousand. There were
Speaker 5: two thousand people in it when the Spanish were there.
Speaker 5: I'm in this one building where the king resided, So
Speaker 5: there was a lot of these buildings were big. But
Speaker 5: back to Kahokia, then these water temples had these giant
Speaker 5: sweat lodges in them buildings where water was carried up
Speaker 5: and fires were going. And that's like a perfect thing
Speaker 5: during the winter. Now I'm from I'm from central Pennsylvania initially, uh.
Speaker 5: And I've traveled a lot through Ohio and Illinois and
Speaker 5: the winter, and yeah, you're right, it's awful cold. Uh.
Speaker 5: But these mound sites were lived in year around. There.
Speaker 5: There's one in Astalon, Wisconsin, UH, which was a Kahokia
Speaker 5: outpost uh. That is way up toward the beginning of
Speaker 5: the Mississippi River, and it was year round also, and
Speaker 5: it had the same thing. It had the sweat lodges
Speaker 5: on these central mounds uh, circular mounds uh. And I
Speaker 5: and that all they believe came from the Mesoamerican influence.
Speaker 5: So I don't know where I'm going with that. So
Speaker 5: I'll stop and see what else we got.
Speaker 3: Before we move on to Lisa. I know there was
Speaker 3: something that you wanted to mention before. I did want
Speaker 3: to before we move on, because I wanted to bring
Speaker 3: something up. Oh no, you tried to try a few times.
Speaker 4: Well, just I guess I have two points regarding haploid
Speaker 4: groups and then also burial mounds. So I'll go to
Speaker 4: the haploid groups first. With it's a bit controversial with
Speaker 4: when we look at haploid groups, at least in genetic
Speaker 4: lines or ancestral lines, especially with mitochondrial DNA, and especially
Speaker 4: looking into the fossil records. When we see a complete
Speaker 4: haploid group represented in the population and then we see scattering,
Speaker 4: that's called a dilution effect. So it would almost be
Speaker 4: to me that it started in the Americas and the
Speaker 4: movement went outward, not inward. Does that make sense?
Speaker 5: I understand that there is a version that did start
Speaker 5: here in America. It's X two A. It's called and
Speaker 5: it's so this this gets so complicated. Initially it really
Speaker 5: looked like yep, X two A started in America. There
Speaker 5: is a The highest distribution of haplogroup X in the
Speaker 5: world is actually the Drus in Lebanon and Syria. Uh,
Speaker 5: and they're actually fighting right now against the Syrians, the
Speaker 5: Syrian leadership. But the Drews have always they call themselves
Speaker 5: the children of the law of one. If you know
Speaker 5: anything about ager Casey, agar Casey said, the good side
Speaker 5: of the Atlanteans, because it's split into two groups there
Speaker 5: was a good side and a not so good side.
Speaker 5: But the good side was the children of the law
Speaker 5: of one. But anyway, that's what the Drews call themselves.
Speaker 5: But anyway, yes, it does disperse X two A very
Speaker 5: clearly started here. Sorry, go ahead, you know.
Speaker 4: And the reason that I kind of, I personally subscribe
Speaker 4: to that theory is because when we look at some
Speaker 4: of the earliest migrations of the earliest people, they followed animals,
Speaker 4: majority of them, the canines, be season, the equine species.
Speaker 4: Canine and equine species start in America. Their origin started
Speaker 4: in the Americas, and they moved westward. I'm sorry, yes, westward,
Speaker 4: usually following the path of the sun.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 4: Rarely do you see migration into eastward. It's always westward.
Speaker 4: But I mean it's it's one of those things. And
Speaker 4: so when you see these haploid groups and you see
Speaker 4: a dilution effect, and then Jin's excellent point, you see
Speaker 4: the same type of botanical type genetics in the Americas
Speaker 4: and in Asia. It almost begs the question are we
Speaker 4: looking at this backwards? Are we looking at it from
Speaker 4: from you know, like flip it the other way around.
Speaker 4: But that was just that was just a quick point.
Speaker 4: But my question to the burial mounds one of the
Speaker 4: things that I found pretty interesting, and you mentioned Piadras
Speaker 4: that was built I believe in the USA Macinta River.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, we had to take that river to get there,
Speaker 5: and we saw drug runners while we were there. After
Speaker 5: we were there. It's not a tourist site. So after
Speaker 5: we were there, drug runners took it over and actually
Speaker 5: put machine gun this in there, and the DA the
Speaker 5: DEA went in with black Cat black Hawk helicopters and
Speaker 5: got them out. But another story.
Speaker 4: Sorry, no, no, that's that's good. You were You got
Speaker 4: the full experience out of Central America. And so then
Speaker 4: when you mentioned the Pyramids of Egypt, and so you
Speaker 4: have the Nile River, and I believe, if I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 4: that the Vatican City was also built on burial mounds,
Speaker 4: and believe it was. It was on the Tiber River
Speaker 4: and it was an ancient burial mound, if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 4: And so you see all of these burial mounds being
Speaker 4: built on the banks or at the mouth of a river,
Speaker 4: and you almost have to wonder, why was there not
Speaker 4: an outbreak of tuberculosis, of cholera, of hepatitis. They're burying
Speaker 4: all these bodies, surely they're seeping into the groundwater and
Speaker 4: going to come out, but there isn't at all. And
Speaker 4: so I always found that completely fascinating. So my question
Speaker 4: to you was, what do you think the significance was
Speaker 4: in placing these burial mountains by water?
Speaker 5: Well, in the path of Soul's ideology, the soul had
Speaker 5: to make a leap across the body of water to
Speaker 5: the star to mess a forty two or Oryon's nebula.
Speaker 5: That's that is the one of the major components of
Speaker 5: the path of Soul's ritual. And I don't know why
Speaker 5: you have to go over a body of water, but
Speaker 5: that's what it is. Uh, there are some there are,
Speaker 5: of course, burial mounds that don't have any water around them.
Speaker 5: I would assume that in some places, you know, depths
Speaker 5: would occur and that the people live near water. They
Speaker 5: always had to live near water. The population centers were
Speaker 5: near water, just as they are today. But I don't know,
Speaker 5: I do not know, you know, the the idea of that.
Speaker 5: They used to say that Kahokia. This was one of
Speaker 5: the theories about Cohokia when the tens of thousands of
Speaker 5: people left Kahokiah or disappeared. According to the mystery there
Speaker 5: that it might have been disease, and I once thought
Speaker 5: it was disease, and I once thought, maybe it's because
Speaker 5: they used all the wood. You know, when you got
Speaker 5: fifty thousand people basically living on the land and they
Speaker 5: all need wood every day for fire and they start
Speaker 5: moving out, I figured, oh, they used all the wood
Speaker 5: and it became unsustainable. But that's not the case either. So, yeah,
Speaker 5: Kahokia didn't disappear because of their diseases. There were diseases
Speaker 5: that occurred, but it's after the Spanish came in, yes,
Speaker 5: and it destroyed up to ninety eight percent of the
Speaker 5: population in some places. So I don't know. I don't
Speaker 5: have an idea why they a lot of the you know,
Speaker 5: they just didn't throw a body on the ground and
Speaker 5: then cover it with dirt. That's what almost everybody thought
Speaker 5: that a mound is, and that's what I thought till
Speaker 5: I got till I really got into this. When I started,
Speaker 5: I didn't know anything about this, and I thought a
Speaker 5: mound was just a you know, dird over a dead body.
Speaker 5: But usually they prepared the space. They carefully prepared it
Speaker 5: they created tombs. People don't know this either. If you
Speaker 5: go to England, you'll see a lot of stone burial chambers,
Speaker 5: really well made stone burial chambers. Loads of American mounds
Speaker 5: have the exact same thing. Stone burial chambers, very well
Speaker 5: made stone burial chambers. But most people don't know this.
Speaker 5: The roofs were made out of either big slabs of
Speaker 5: stone put over each other, or they often used gigantic
Speaker 5: logs laid across and then put stone on top of them.
Speaker 5: A lot of these, a lot of these burial chambers
Speaker 5: have been excavated, or I'll use the word looted because
Speaker 5: that's more appropriate. They have been looted intact, and they've
Speaker 5: just found incredible stuff out of them. I mean, it's incredible,
Speaker 5: how much how many artifacts and the I hate I
Speaker 5: seldom said, I'm never said, I'm not sure I want to.
Speaker 5: I'm not going to say what all the things that
Speaker 5: have been found at but lots of pottery, lots of copper,
Speaker 5: lots of lots of flint, coal, you name it, obsidian,
Speaker 5: stone tablets, the.
Speaker 7: Stone tablets.
Speaker 5: You know you mentioned gold. Some I hate to say
Speaker 5: it's some gold and silver artifacts have been removed from
Speaker 5: Native American mounds. Uh, it's very very rare. But some
Speaker 5: has And that's not what I did not want to say,
Speaker 5: because a looter here, you know, Oh my god, I'm
Speaker 5: digging in a mound find gold and silver. No, you
Speaker 5: aren't going to find golden smith. You're gonna find the
Speaker 5: inside of a of a federal prison, now if you
Speaker 5: do that. But yes, some gold and silver have been
Speaker 5: found by archaeologists doing excavations in the Native American mass.
Speaker 5: It's hard to find those reports. I don't have those.
Speaker 5: I don't mention that in here because of you. I
Speaker 5: just don't. Yeah.
Speaker 6: My favorite findings are the stone tablets with the ancient
Speaker 6: writings that we don't recognize, and like the Cincinnati tablet
Speaker 6: for example, Yeah, which appears to be ancient Hittite.
Speaker 5: There's about a dozen Dina tablets. That's now I say
Speaker 5: a lot. Okay, these are mounds, the Adena mounds are
Speaker 5: where these tablets. I don't have a I have replicas
Speaker 5: here if I thought of it. I brought some up
Speaker 5: and showed them. But they're about this big.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 5: They're usually made of shale or sandstone. They're very well made.
Speaker 5: They're about a half inch thick. They have carvings on them,
Speaker 5: They have all kinds of Some of them have what
Speaker 5: looks like a form of writing. Most of them have
Speaker 5: weird symbols. They're usually divided into four quadrants. It's a
Speaker 5: lot of weird symbols. In about fifty fourteen or so
Speaker 5: of these been found. If you read up about them,
Speaker 5: you'll say, well, archaeologists have only found two of them.
Speaker 5: The rest of them, you know, are called into question
Speaker 5: because they were found by non archaeologists. But they're genuine
Speaker 5: and you can't see the originals anymore except for those
Speaker 5: in private collections.
Speaker 7: But yeah, they do occasionally.
Speaker 6: The Cincinnatis have one on display the Cincinnati Art Museum
Speaker 6: because they claim it's art.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I suspect they don't now, not with diapra.
Speaker 5: And that's only happened in the recent months. Loads of
Speaker 5: museums have closed. They've closed in the Native American section.
Speaker 5: Some of the giant museums have just cordoned off the
Speaker 5: whole Native america An area until a NAGPRO representative goes through.
Speaker 7: I've posed a recent revision to now.
Speaker 5: It was revised about a year and a half ago,
Speaker 5: and the revisions went into effect about Uh, let's see
Speaker 5: six months before November anyway, you can read a lot
Speaker 5: of this in the archaeology journals about what happened. And
Speaker 5: so the federal government, about six months before the election
Speaker 5: began enforcing the new NAGPRA regulations, not the law, but
Speaker 5: the newly regulations that require every Native American artifact displayed
Speaker 5: in a public museum or university to have approval from
Speaker 5: a tribe registered nagpro representative. I went through the Yeah,
Speaker 5: I went so, and it costs a lot of money.
Speaker 5: So university and there's only a few of them. The
Speaker 5: federal they get registered or authorized to do this. There
Speaker 5: aren't many tribal representatives that are authorized to do it,
Speaker 5: so it's taking a lot of time. So rather than
Speaker 5: museums just pulling everything out of display, they just closed
Speaker 5: the doors to that area, which we've found in Texas,
Speaker 5: the Portsmouth, Ohio Museum, which had an incredible collection, they
Speaker 5: just cordin. Yeah, the second floor, which is where all
Speaker 5: that was.
Speaker 6: That makes a lot of sense because I had a
Speaker 6: friend of mine go to the Ohio History Museum in
Speaker 6: Columbus last time to take his kids there.
Speaker 7: Now, he was showing me pictures where's the tablets? And
Speaker 7: I said, oh, man, they're not.
Speaker 5: There, or they nothing. There's nothing there that's wild. That's
Speaker 5: that's exactly why. Well, the Etowa Museum has repatriated the
Speaker 5: two marble statues about this big two beautiful marble statues
Speaker 5: that were displayed there that were excavated from the Etowah
Speaker 5: Mounds in the eighteen hundreds. I've got loads of photos
Speaker 5: from them, saw them there. Those have been repatriated the
Speaker 5: University of Alabama Museum at Moundville, which had thousands of
Speaker 5: incredible artifacts from the mounds. All of those were actually
Speaker 5: reburied in a mound at the site. About a year ago.
Speaker 5: They had a secret ceremony where they were reburied Southwest.
Speaker 5: Reburied a lot. Now what you'll see in some are
Speaker 5: these have to be approved too. Replicas. There are some
Speaker 5: pottery replicas that they show, but those have to be
Speaker 5: approved also. I went to the University of Arkansas Museum
Speaker 5: in Fayetteville and saw, I'm going to guess one hundred
Speaker 5: thousand artifacts. I posted photos of being in this museum.
Speaker 5: It's closed. I got permission to go in. I wasn't
Speaker 5: allowed to see the repatriated artifacts, which are on these
Speaker 5: stands that are about shelves that are about ten feet high,
Speaker 5: really long, and there's like thirty or forty double shelves
Speaker 5: that are just full. I've posted some photos of that
Speaker 5: on Twitter, but none of that is shown, nor will
Speaker 5: it be. So that's what's happened. Coolam moch Georgia Cola
Speaker 5: Mochi had incredible artifacts taken. They had They were the
Speaker 5: only place I know of where they found a couple
Speaker 5: hundred pottery vessels found intact that were all perfectly preserved,
Speaker 5: placed in a chamber and a mound so they would
Speaker 5: not break, would not get wet, and they were recovered
Speaker 5: in the nineteen hundreds and nineteen forties and put on
Speaker 5: display there. I mean, absolutely beautiful. I've posted a lot
Speaker 5: of pictures of those on Twitter. Also, that's now been closed.
Speaker 5: I was there last year at this time, and from
Speaker 5: last year at this time to now the museums closed
Speaker 5: and they're removing all of those artifacts from display. So
Speaker 5: that's happening everywhere.
Speaker 2: Oh I just go ahead, Nick, please.
Speaker 3: Sorry, Uh, this might be a little bit of a
Speaker 3: long winded question, but I did want to wrap it
Speaker 3: up in a little bit, So I mean, I did
Speaker 3: want to ask, well, Logan Win did answer. I know,
Speaker 3: like how Mexico kind of gets looked over for their pyramids,
Speaker 3: I think to an extent. So I was wondering if
Speaker 3: there was anything with like the mountains there was as well,
Speaker 3: was there any that you thought were rather impressive that
Speaker 3: don't get like any recognition or anything.
Speaker 5: Uh. There were mounds that were covered with stone. There
Speaker 5: are mounds that had stone sides. They had stone slabs
Speaker 5: on them. The first people that came in settlers. The
Speaker 5: first settlers that came in found all those stone slabs
Speaker 5: and stones convenient building material and they took them downtown
Speaker 5: Saint Louis, Missouri, where the Arch is. I've I've posted
Speaker 5: a photo or illustrations of the rebuilt site. There was
Speaker 5: a gigantic mound site there. It was a walled fortress
Speaker 5: right by the river, right under where the arch is
Speaker 5: and the football stadium is, where Big Mound was. Big
Speaker 5: Mound Saint Louis was absolutely gigantic, a massive mound. The
Speaker 5: first long Nose God was found. Artifact was found in
Speaker 5: Big Mound. When it was destroyed, they brought in Big
Speaker 5: Mound was destroyed in eighteen fifties to eighteen sixties. It
Speaker 5: took a couple years. They had to bring in a
Speaker 5: steam shovel. There are photographs of it, and they literally
Speaker 5: obliterated everything in downtown Saint Louis. They just destroyed it
Speaker 5: right across the river East Saint Louis, same thing. East
Speaker 5: Saint Louis had a complex of roughly twenty to fifty mounds.
Speaker 5: It's believed to have been fifty altogether. I've put up
Speaker 5: an illustration of East Saint Louis, Illinois on Twitter, also
Speaker 5: that a couple of weeks ago, all of that obliterated gone.
Speaker 5: Almost all mound sites are gone. Somewhere between eighty to
Speaker 5: ninety percent of mound sites that were in the United
Speaker 5: States are gone. They've been destroyed. Loads of them had
Speaker 5: stone exteriors, but they're gone. Some of the artifacts taken
Speaker 5: out of them are just as incredible, lacking a lot
Speaker 5: of the gold and silver, like gold and silver masks.
Speaker 5: I've never seen a gold mask or a silver mask
Speaker 5: that came out of a North American mound. I have
Speaker 5: seen a lot of turquoise that came out of North
Speaker 5: American mounds, but not gold and silver. But the main
Speaker 5: thing that's overlooked is that was the dominant culture that
Speaker 5: was here in the fifteen forties, and it disappeared. It
Speaker 5: disappeared within twenty years gone. The population, which was probably
Speaker 5: twenty to thirty million in what we call the United States,
Speaker 5: went down ninety five to ninety eight percent within thirty years,
Speaker 5: and it was forgotten by the time the first settlers
Speaker 5: came in the year sixteen hundred, around sixteen hundred and
Speaker 5: started pushing west. By then, there had been almost two
Speaker 5: hundred years or one hundred and fifty years of growth.
Speaker 5: Everything was overgrown, Everything looked natural. There was almost nobody
Speaker 5: left to explain it. And the myth of the mountain
Speaker 5: builders started because of that. But the population was absolutely decimated.
Speaker 5: I will add one more thing to this. The in
Speaker 5: the Yucatan it was solid buildings, solid cities. There was
Speaker 5: an island off Yucatan called Cerritos that was six hundred
Speaker 5: feet diameter, had a giant stone wall around it, and
Speaker 5: then had a stone wall in the water. I have
Speaker 5: actually filmed that entire stone wall underwater, and that was
Speaker 5: chichen Itza's port. It's at Islus Sarritos, which is off
Speaker 5: the coast of Yucatan and from there. These huge canoes
Speaker 5: were going to Florida and to Louisiana and the Gulf
Speaker 5: of Alabama and Mexican Mexico. When I said the Gulf
Speaker 5: of Alabama, I mean the shores along the golf, not
Speaker 5: the Gulf of al I just changed the name again.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, he just made that one off. That's great.
Speaker 5: It's just a forgotten culture. It was dominated the whole land.
Speaker 5: It's just it's forgotten. That's why I'm doing what I'm doing.
Speaker 5: That's it.
Speaker 2: I have a question about the baths.
Speaker 1: You brought up the basques and the rh factor, and
Speaker 1: I know we haven't got into this, but I'm more
Speaker 1: fascinated with the esoteric end of things and how they
Speaker 1: spoke about these giants that were doing this weird sex stuff.
Speaker 2: With everybody and then they had to take them out.
Speaker 1: And then we've got the stories of the Indigo children
Speaker 1: and this new rh factor and a lot of these
Speaker 1: things that seemingly supported I mean, we can say evolution,
Speaker 1: but it's never happened again.
Speaker 2: I mean ever, So, how do you feel about all that?
Speaker 5: Well, that's a lot that I know. Yeah, we could
Speaker 5: do more than a show on that. So I will
Speaker 5: say this there is. There are several really good tales
Speaker 5: Native American tales about how they had to rise up
Speaker 5: against the giants who were their leaders. Now they in general,
Speaker 5: they don't say their leaders were ten twenty thirty feet high.
Speaker 5: They talk about them as very big, physically big people.
Speaker 5: There's several ways to pronounce it. But this comes into
Speaker 5: where the Adina were and so on. And they said
Speaker 5: that they rose against these leaders when their demands got preposterous,
Speaker 5: and they were mainly sexual demands, that's what's in it.
Speaker 5: And they rose and they killed them all off. There
Speaker 5: are a lot of mythological tales of Native Americans. One
Speaker 5: more thing about that. The Smithsonian did a seven year
Speaker 5: mound survey project during which they excavated three thousand mounds.
Speaker 5: That was started in the eighteen fifties or the eighteen
Speaker 5: seventies actually, And during their mound survey project, digging into
Speaker 5: three thousand mounds, they dug up and recorded seventeen skeletons
Speaker 5: in very well made tombs, all of which were seven
Speaker 5: feet tall. Two seven feet eight inches tall was the
Speaker 5: largest win after And that's all in the Smithsonian publications.
Speaker 5: Archaeologists found those since then, since they did it, roughly
Speaker 5: another ten skeletons were recovered by mainstream archaeologists in their
Speaker 5: literature of about ten skeletons found that were seven feet
Speaker 5: tall to eight feet tall. Loads of them. I don't
Speaker 5: even talk about these loads and loads of skeletons were
Speaker 5: like six foot four to six foot eight something like that.
Speaker 5: But you know, everybody's interested in the seven footers. Statistically speaking,
Speaker 5: one of every seven one of every one hundred and
Speaker 5: seventy four thousand, I think it's seventy four thousand, six
Speaker 5: hundred people is seven feet tall. And I did a
Speaker 5: statistical analysis of the skeletons that were found by the
Speaker 5: Smithsonian published it in that book Path of Souls, and
Speaker 5: found that it is not it is statistically not possible
Speaker 5: by chance alone for that. And archaeologists actually they jumped
Speaker 5: on that and said it's the best thing they'd seen
Speaker 5: in the alternative field, since I'm an alternative person to them,
Speaker 5: and they called it the Adena elite hypothesis, and that
Speaker 5: is that the Adena leadership, the elite of the population
Speaker 5: were abnormally large people, which in a book that Andrew
Speaker 5: Collins and I co authored called Denisovan Origins, we believe
Speaker 5: that they had some Denisovan They were Denisovan hybrids or
Speaker 5: ancestors of Denisovans that had interbred with other people and
Speaker 5: wound up over here lost there.
Speaker 1: You go, Well, well, I bring it up because the
Speaker 1: Mormons always speak about you know, one of their top
Speaker 1: secret passwords when you go through the temple is talking
Speaker 1: about the sinews and the life and the sinews, and
Speaker 1: they're affiliated with skull and bones and all these things.
Speaker 1: So the stuff you're talking about to me, I mean,
Speaker 1: no wonder these people are putting buildings on top of mounds, right,
Speaker 1: They're they're harnessing. They're harnessing like in my opinion, I
Speaker 1: mean the blood, the blood speaks.
Speaker 5: Yeah. A lot of people think that it's an energy source. Yeah,
Speaker 5: there's a lot. And they used crystals for something, and
Speaker 5: there's a little experiment. I tell people. You can light
Speaker 5: up a room with two crystals and you can put
Speaker 5: your you can put the crystals in a bathtub filled
Speaker 5: with water, and you can if you have all the
Speaker 5: lights out, you can light up the whole room with
Speaker 5: refraction from the crystals. Uh. The first show I ever
Speaker 5: did with Art Bell back in the early one of
Speaker 5: his last shows, Art came back after a break. You know,
Speaker 5: they had these breaks, and all the breaks on those
Speaker 5: late night radio shows are for men's prostate problems. So
Speaker 5: they lasted about five minutes and Art Bell came back
Speaker 5: and he and he called me doctor Little. Then, well,
Speaker 5: doctor Little, I did this. I did exactly what you
Speaker 5: said with those crystals. During the break. I went into
Speaker 5: the bathroom. I filled the tub full of water, I
Speaker 5: got a pair of gloves. I took two large crystals
Speaker 5: like you told me, and I turned out the lights
Speaker 5: and I put my hands in that bathtub and I
Speaker 5: did just what you told me to do. And do
Speaker 5: you know what happened? And I was kind of and
Speaker 5: I said it worked. He said, yes, it worked. He
Speaker 5: said I couldn't believe it. He said, I had no
Speaker 5: idea it would do that. And if you rub, if
Speaker 5: you you need to use gloves to do this. This
Speaker 5: is just a hint. You gotta wear some gloves, uh,
Speaker 5: And you gotta rub the two crystals together really hard,
Speaker 5: and you and the rougher they are the better. And
Speaker 5: you do it underwater. Do it underwater the lights out
Speaker 5: and you get refraction off of it. And it's called
Speaker 5: the piezoelectric effect. They're little, you know, you get people
Speaker 5: would say, always the sparks. It's not sparks, they're little
Speaker 5: plasmas coming off of it. They're electrical plasmas. So anyway,
Speaker 5: and this shaman used to do that. They'd put these
Speaker 5: crystal shaman would put pieces of crystals in leather pouches
Speaker 5: in a dark room, and you can grind those things,
Speaker 5: and as you grind them, you'll see little balls of
Speaker 5: light fly fly out of the leather pouch. So, for
Speaker 5: what it's worth, Nick's finding this hilarious.
Speaker 2: No, he's laughing at gin.
Speaker 5: Jin's bath.
Speaker 2: He says, he does this, So.
Speaker 5: No, I was it's good.
Speaker 3: I was thinking of myself all of all the ritual
Speaker 3: bats I've probably done because I used to. I used to,
Speaker 3: you know, practice ritual magic. I was like, I never
Speaker 3: once thought about, you know, banging the crystals together. I
Speaker 3: just threw them in the top. So that's interesting.
Speaker 5: Man. I made a we made it. I made a
Speaker 5: film for Andrew Collins. It's head over a million views,
Speaker 5: it's on YouTube. But I needed to simulate cosmic rays
Speaker 5: going through literally moving through the eyes and creating flashes
Speaker 5: of light in the eyes in a cave. So I
Speaker 5: had to simulate it. So we set up. I have
Speaker 5: a good night vision camera, video camera from the year
Speaker 5: two thousand. I bought this thing and it has a
Speaker 5: souper slow motion in it, and so we set it
Speaker 5: up and in a room, I took the two crystals
Speaker 5: and I rubbed them together like this in a room
Speaker 5: with the camera right there, and oh my god, it
Speaker 5: was incredible what it looks like. And you get all
Speaker 5: these forms coming out, and they look like people, and
Speaker 5: they look like birds, and they look like animals. But
Speaker 5: you can only see him in super in slow motion,
Speaker 5: but everybody can see the lights coming off of it.
Speaker 5: It's just amazing. But the forms that they make. So
Speaker 5: you're going to do that experiment? Now, are you?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Thinking about it? For sure?
Speaker 5: Yeah? I want to record wear gloves, mark me.
Speaker 3: I heard you say it a few times. You know,
Speaker 3: I think you wanted to cover yourself. Okay, I said,
Speaker 3: wear gloves. I guess before we uh, I guess before
Speaker 3: we wrap it up. I did want to ask one
Speaker 3: more thing, and unfortunately JJ's got to go. I don't
Speaker 3: know if JJ, if you want to say good bye
Speaker 3: now before I ask another question?
Speaker 6: See you, JJ, No, I really appreciate the conversation. I
Speaker 6: appreciate the time Nick, and the invite in Jen and
Speaker 6: Heidi and at least always a great time here in
Speaker 6: the Cult Rejects.
Speaker 5: Greg. I'd love to have.
Speaker 6: Another mound conversation with in the future. That'd be fantastic.
Speaker 5: Thank you so much.
Speaker 7: Love the Twitter feed for sure. I've been a big
Speaker 7: fan for years.
Speaker 5: All Right, I'll put this on Twitter when I can.
Speaker 7: Oh, nice, thank you, all right, awesome.
Speaker 3: I know we kind of mentioned it a little bit
Speaker 3: and Heidi was saying that, and I'm sure everybody here
Speaker 3: has an idea that maybe these things might be used
Speaker 3: for energy or power or something to that extent. Do
Speaker 3: you think there might be still some use to these
Speaker 3: mounds nowadays if people understood it they werefore like, do
Speaker 3: you think some of them might be still useful?
Speaker 5: Well? I do kind of. I don't teach it. I've
Speaker 5: written about how to do it, how to connect there
Speaker 5: is there are some mental things that can be done
Speaker 5: at these and I think that there's a mental connection
Speaker 5: that you can make with that. It requires you to
Speaker 5: tune yourself to the Earth's ambient electromagnetic frequency, known as
Speaker 5: the Shumann residents. The problem that we have today is
Speaker 5: that we live in an electromagnetic cesspool. We have so
Speaker 5: much electromagnetic energy that we are bombarded with that it's
Speaker 5: really causing issues with people. There's a group of us
Speaker 5: that are in the professions healthcare professions or in that
Speaker 5: area who believe that the sudden increase in autism, the
Speaker 5: increase in ADHD, the increase in anxiety, and all the
Speaker 5: whole bunch of mental disorders are coming from electromagnetic sensitivity,
Speaker 5: which is a real condition. It's a real medical condition
Speaker 5: that we have. That there is so much electromagnetic energy
Speaker 5: around us now that is human made that it's causing
Speaker 5: trouble for people to get connected to whatever is over there,
Speaker 5: whatever you want to call spiritual and nature or just
Speaker 5: nature itself. I don't tell I tell people that the
Speaker 5: Native Americans believed everything is spiritual, that everything has a
Speaker 5: spiritual nature to it. Beyond that, I have no explanation
Speaker 5: to it. I do know that how I contact it,
Speaker 5: I know how other people can contact it. And you
Speaker 5: use that, you know, you try to harmonize it and
Speaker 5: so on. Some of the shaman would use it almost
Speaker 5: like Ager Casey did, to make certain kinds of predictions,
Speaker 5: or to assist the people who were making decisions in
Speaker 5: the tribe, the chiefs and the elders and so on,
Speaker 5: or to do healing. They would do healing with it.
Speaker 5: I don't pretend to do any of that, but I
Speaker 5: do tell people how to connect. But the problem is
Speaker 5: that we live in that. We literally live in electromagnetic sss.
Speaker 5: If you look at you or how many Wi Fi
Speaker 5: connections you're getting where you are where I am here,
Speaker 5: I'm in a suburb of Memphis, Tennessee. I got like
Speaker 5: fifteen different wifis I'm connecting to. There's wires all over
Speaker 5: the place where I'm at. It's just everywhere. Cell towers
Speaker 5: are everywhere. You will notice a difference when you go
Speaker 5: out into a place where you get no cell tower connection.
Speaker 5: You get no connection at all, and there's no electricity.
Speaker 5: A good place like this is hoven Weep in Utah,
Speaker 5: hoven weep Ruins. Go there and get down in. You
Speaker 5: got to get down into the canyon there where there's
Speaker 5: no connection. To make sure you have your cell phone off,
Speaker 5: don't have anything electrical on you, and I'll guarantee you
Speaker 5: you'll feel a bit different. And just sit there. You
Speaker 5: seek place like that. Close your eyes. Don't meditate. Meditation
Speaker 5: is a mistake. Don't meditate when you go to these places.
Speaker 5: You want to sit there and you either listen. Just listen,
Speaker 5: that's all you have to do. It's good to keep
Speaker 5: your eyes closed at first, but listen and try to
Speaker 5: geolocate things in your mind that you're listening to and
Speaker 5: that will pop you out of your consciousness. That's a
Speaker 5: very simple way of doing it, but it's incredibly effective.
Speaker 1: We go, we go once a year up to Ogden
Speaker 1: Canyon because I live in Utah where there is no service,
Speaker 1: because the kids drive us crazy if there's service, and
Speaker 1: so they won't do anything if we can't, you know.
Speaker 1: So we go dry camping clear up where there is nothing.
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you it's every year for my birthday.
Speaker 1: Everybody knows where I'm going to be for a week,
Speaker 1: and you feel fantastic when you come back.
Speaker 5: So it changes your It changes you, I believe biologically.
Speaker 5: Now you'll readjust when you get back home. It'll go
Speaker 5: wait pretty quickly. But what we don't understand. We cannot
Speaker 5: understand what these ancient people lived in because they had
Speaker 5: no man made electromagnetic fields. At all, except when they
Speaker 5: were doing their crystal magic because that creates an electromagnetic field.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, I would love to talk to you further
Speaker 1: about the Belile Group and Armand and Steiner and all
Speaker 1: these crazy things you can't get into today, and blood
Speaker 1: blood magic and all these things about the giants. But
Speaker 1: I know if I go any further today, we'll be
Speaker 1: here and absolutely forever. But I appreciate you so much,
Speaker 1: and this has been fascinating.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, thank you. I gave a talk at the
Speaker 5: Steiner Center in London. By the way.
Speaker 2: Oh awesome, I studyed Oh wow, clouds Steiner.
Speaker 5: Well, thank you. It's a pleasure be it here, Heidi.
Speaker 5: Been great. Maybe we'll do it again.
Speaker 3: Yes, I would love that definitely. Yes, thank you very much. Greg.
Speaker 3: That was an amazing and amazing chat for real. We
Speaker 3: definitely love our mounds over here, so you're definitely the
Speaker 3: got to talk to Oh all right, real quick, let
Speaker 3: everybody know where they can find any of your stuff
Speaker 3: that you want to promote.
Speaker 5: Please, Yeah, I don't want to promote anything. Just go
Speaker 5: on Twitter or an easy way to find me. Just
Speaker 5: then go to Google Google my full name, Gregory, put
Speaker 5: l in there it's my middle initial, Little and there
Speaker 5: it is. It's even got my curriculum vitas on there.
Speaker 5: It's somewhere on that first page. But Gregory L. Little,
Speaker 5: that's all you got to do. You'll find my Twitter there.
Speaker 5: I'm on Facebook too, but I don't do much of
Speaker 5: Facebook is a cesspool of a different kind. But but
Speaker 5: go on, just go on Google and google my name.
Speaker 5: That's it. But whatever, if something interests you, that's fine.
Speaker 5: Most of my books you cannot buy. They're in used
Speaker 5: in psychology and criminal justice. And if you're a criminal,
Speaker 5: you probably might know my name. But if you're not,
Speaker 5: then yeah, there you out. So that's a little hint
Speaker 5: in there. So anyway, it's been a pleasure, but no,
Speaker 5: I got no website to promote nothing.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately about the books, many you can find huge copies
Speaker 1: that inmates have put up.
Speaker 5: Yeah that's funny X inmates ex criminals put it that way. Yeah,
Speaker 5: if you've been in prison, if you've been in jail
Speaker 5: for any length of time, chances are you've had one
Speaker 5: of my books, not because you bought it, but because
Speaker 5: you were forced to use it. So there you go.
Speaker 3: Well to look into this, all right, thank you?
Speaker 5: So much. There you go, all right, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 3: Definitely, definitely all right, and uh yeah, thank you uh Lisa,
Speaker 3: thank you Jin and thank you Heidi so much for
Speaker 3: jumping on. And they're all their show notes and everything
Speaker 3: is in the bottom as well as well as I
Speaker 3: leave Greg's Twitter and maybe I'll put something else down
Speaker 3: there for sure. But that is the end of another
Speaker 3: Occult Rejects and until the next one, everybody be well
Speaker 3: later