Speaker 1: It's Night Side with Dan ray I w BZ Costs video.
Speaker 2: Well, the big story, the big local story in Massachusetts
Speaker 2: today has been the fact that Michael Proctor, a state
Speaker 2: police detective who was the lead detective and the Karen
Speaker 2: Reid case that I think most of us are familiar with,
Speaker 2: that was a case in which she was accused of
Speaker 2: striking and killing a Boston police officer who she was
Speaker 2: dating at the time with her suv and left of
Speaker 2: deny in the snow. That trial occurred last spring from
Speaker 2: April to July, and it ended in a hung jury,
Speaker 2: and that retrial is supposed to that second trial retrial
Speaker 2: is supposed to occur or begin on April first. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure they're going to be able to get that
Speaker 2: all lined up by April first. But the big news
Speaker 2: today is that the lead investigator on the case, the
Speaker 2: state police detective been on the job fourteen years, has
Speaker 2: been fired. There was an investigation. He was a witness
Speaker 2: at trial last spring and there were four charges against him,
Speaker 2: and there was a trial board that convened on three dates,
Speaker 2: one in January, one of February, and one in March,
Speaker 2: and to consider the allegations against him. The allegations, all
Speaker 2: of which all of which were found to be true
Speaker 2: by the trial board. He will be able to appeal
Speaker 2: it to the Civil Service Commission, which will be interesting.
Speaker 2: But as of now, he basically has been found guilty
Speaker 2: of as while he was the lead investigator in a
Speaker 2: homicide investigation, sent derogatory, defamatory, disparaging, in or otherwise inappropriate
Speaker 2: text messages about a suspect in that investigation other individuals.
Speaker 2: That's specificated charge one, what they call specification Specification two
Speaker 2: was that wallas Sign is the lead investigator in a
Speaker 2: homicide investigation, Drew per Proctor provided sensitive and or confidential
Speaker 2: information about a homicide victim, potential witnesses, and or potential
Speaker 2: investigative steps in the investigation to non law enforcement enforcement personnel.
Speaker 2: He was found guilty of that step three, that drewper
Speaker 2: pro wallasign is the lead investigator in a homicide investigation,
Speaker 2: through his unprofessional inappropriate conduct, created an image that he
Speaker 2: was unprofessional and created an image that he was biased
Speaker 2: in his dealings with a homicide suspect, and or brought
Speaker 2: otherwise himself and the Massachusetts Police into disrepute. That actually
Speaker 2: is a direct violation of what they call a Class
Speaker 2: A violation. And then the fourth charge was that he
Speaker 2: consumed out Holly beverages while eating dinner while on duty
Speaker 2: and then proceeded to operate the department issued cruiser. Well,
Speaker 2: I think most of us have a thought about this case.
Speaker 2: His the cross examination of Trooper Proctor obviously did not
Speaker 2: help the prosecution in the case last year of Karen Reid,
Speaker 2: the head of the Massachusetts State Police, who is newly appointed.
Speaker 2: I mean, he is just I think he's I don't
Speaker 2: think he's been on the force for for six months
Speaker 2: at this point. Colonel Jeffrey Noble, he was hired out
Speaker 2: of New Jersey and he basically made the decision to
Speaker 2: relieve Proctor of duty. So fourteen years he suspended, he's terminated.
Speaker 2: He will have a right to appeal to the Civil
Speaker 2: Service Commission. And his family has done into with one
Speaker 2: of his wife and his sister have done interviews with
Speaker 2: one of the local television stations in Boston. They have
Speaker 2: released statements saying that, well, let me read a statement
Speaker 2: from the family. We are truly disappointed with the Trialboard's decision,
Speaker 2: as it lacks precedent and unfairly exploits in scapegoats one
Speaker 2: of their own. A trooper with a fourteen year unblemished record,
Speaker 2: the family said, well it's a little blemish now. Despite
Speaker 2: the Massachusetts State Police dubious and relentless effage to find
Speaker 2: more in cumpatory evidence against Michael Procter on his phones, computers,
Speaker 2: and cruiser data, the messages on his personal phone referring
Speaker 2: to the person who killed a fellow beloved Boston police
Speaker 2: officer are all that they found. The messages prove one thing,
Speaker 2: and that Michael is human, not corrupt, not incompetent in
Speaker 2: his role as a homicide detective, and certainly not unfit
Speaker 2: to continue to be a Massachusetts State trooper. The Proctor
Speaker 2: family continued, Proctor and his detectives led him meticulous and
Speaker 2: thorough investigative investigation of integrity, and despite today's wrongful termination
Speaker 2: and great harm and defamation this case inflicted on him
Speaker 2: and his family, I don't think it inflicts defamation on
Speaker 2: his family, but that's neither here or there. Practice still
Speaker 2: believes justice will be served. The family said, he's grateful
Speaker 2: for the unrelaying support of the union and the men
Speaker 2: and women of the Massachusetts a Police. His heart is
Speaker 2: always with the family of Officer John O'Keefe, who continued
Speaker 2: to adore a prolonged and unimaginable nightmare. Now, meanwhile, the
Speaker 2: State Police Colonel he issued this statement. Our mission to
Speaker 2: deliver the highest level of police services depends on the
Speaker 2: public's trust in our professionalism and integrity. It is incumbent
Speaker 2: upon me, as well as every member of this department,
Speaker 2: to hold one another accountable when any member compromises our
Speaker 2: mission by failing to uphold our values. As Superintendent, my
Speaker 2: role demands that I do what is in the best
Speaker 2: interest of the department. My decision to terminate mister Proctor
Speaker 2: follows a thorough, fear and impartial process. I have weighed
Speaker 2: the nature of the offenses, their impact on our investigative integrity,
Speaker 2: and the importance of safeguarding the reputations of our dedicated
Speaker 2: women and men in the State Police. This decision reflects
Speaker 2: our unwavering commitment to upholding our values and enhancing public trust,
Speaker 2: ensuring the higher standards of service and accountability. Finally, recognizing
Speaker 2: the ways in which this process has affected the family
Speaker 2: of Boston Police Officer John O'Keefe, I would also like
Speaker 2: to renew our condolences to them, Proctor can appeal to
Speaker 2: the State Civil Service Commission. So to some, certainly to
Speaker 2: read supporters, I think this will be proof that this case,
Speaker 2: from their perspective, was a.
Speaker 3: It was a bad job.
Speaker 2: I guess that is what they would probably say to
Speaker 2: me tonight. And if you want to say that, feel free.
Speaker 2: This guy obviously acting in an unprofessional manner.
Speaker 3: You could.
Speaker 2: Act unprofessionally and also conduct a thorough investigation, which I
Speaker 2: think is what his family's saying. But this has blown
Speaker 2: up to be a national story. I mean, it is
Speaker 2: a horrible accident. Well, it's a horrible human tragedy. For
Speaker 2: the O'Keefe family, they lost the life of a member
Speaker 2: of their family. For the Reed family, it's cost them
Speaker 2: enormous amounts of money. And all of this comes down
Speaker 2: to I think, you know, it's almost Shakespeare, and it's
Speaker 2: like the fates put these two people together who apparently
Speaker 2: at some point got along very well, and then it
Speaker 2: deteriorated and it ended that. It will be up to
Speaker 2: a joy to decide which theory is true. But I'd
Speaker 2: like to just open it up and ask focus on
Speaker 2: Michael Procter tonight, and the question is do you think
Speaker 2: the State Police did the right thing in terminating him
Speaker 2: fourteen years of service. He will also never be able
Speaker 2: to reapply assuming the civil the State's Civil Service Commission
Speaker 2: upholds his dismissal his termination, he will never be able
Speaker 2: to even reapply to renew his professional status as a
Speaker 2: member of the Massachusetts State Police. This is a pretty serious,
Speaker 2: heavy duty deal. Six one seven, two, five, four ten
Speaker 2: thirty six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty. The
Speaker 2: other lines a full let's keep it rolling here on
Speaker 2: nights side, as we had. We're going to do this
Speaker 2: for one hour period and the reason is I have
Speaker 2: a guest coming up at ten o'clock and if you
Speaker 2: don't believe me, try me. We're going to be talking
Speaker 2: at ten o'clock tonight with the Israeli Consul General to
Speaker 2: New England, Ben Sharoni, about the latest developments in the
Speaker 2: Middle East, in the war between Israel and Hamas and
Speaker 2: what is going on in Gazam. So we will be
Speaker 2: talking with again representative direct representative of Israel's government here
Speaker 2: in New England. He's spent a guest before in this program.
Speaker 2: The Israeli Consul General to New England, Benny Sharoni, at
Speaker 2: ten if you want to get in on this and
Speaker 2: comment about Michael Proctor what was shown in the police
Speaker 2: Personnel Trial Board finding the four specific charges that he
Speaker 2: was accused of and found guilty of by ranking officers
Speaker 2: in the Massachusettstate Police. Although his union stands behind him.
Speaker 2: The only number that is available six one, seven, two, five, four,
Speaker 2: ten thirty.
Speaker 3: Be back on Nightside right after this.
Speaker 1: Now bent to Danway live from the Window World, Nice
Speaker 1: Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 2: So we are going to talk about this. Is this
Speaker 2: is a big development. I think it will have an
Speaker 2: impact on the case. He's still uh, he being Michael
Speaker 2: Proctor is still on the witness list for both the
Speaker 2: prosecution and the defense in the Karen Read case. Let's
Speaker 2: get to the call. It's gonna go first to Mark
Speaker 2: in Cambridge. Mark, appreciate you taking the time to call in.
Speaker 3: You are first up this hour aside.
Speaker 4: Thank you for taking my carl again.
Speaker 3: You're welcome, You're welcome. Mark. How are you? What? What's
Speaker 3: your reaction to this?
Speaker 4: My reacting the State Police, Colonel State Police. They did
Speaker 4: what they had to do, no doubt whatsoever. On the
Speaker 4: other hand, in my opinion on the other hand, all
Speaker 4: this is gonna get over to bye. It's union lawyers, arbitration. Listen,
Speaker 4: and it's only again he got emotional, absolutely, but his
Speaker 4: speech is protected in the First Amendment. His speech is protected.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm gonna I'm going to disagree with you on
Speaker 2: that because it's this is really not a First Amendment issue.
Speaker 2: This is an issue that deals with his conduct as
Speaker 2: a professional. Okay, if I get on the radio tonight, uh,
Speaker 2: and I say, you know, Mark from Cambridge is a
Speaker 2: bad guy, and I know which, of.
Speaker 3: Course you're a great guy. I would never say anything
Speaker 3: like that about you, Mark.
Speaker 2: But you know, if I in effect defamed you, I
Speaker 2: might be able to defend myself or my lawyers might
Speaker 2: be able to offend myself in a defamation case. But
Speaker 2: I guarantee you my company would say, Hey, that's not
Speaker 2: what we hired you to do. We hired you to
Speaker 2: conduct a talk show and conduct a talk show in
Speaker 2: which people felt welcome to have a conversation.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: And you you went a little far when you when
Speaker 2: you said those horrible things about Mark from Gaybridge, who's
Speaker 2: now suing us, and so so I don't know that
Speaker 2: my job would be protected and I don't think his
Speaker 2: job should be protected here either, because by his very actions,
Speaker 2: he's called into question the integrity of every state police
Speaker 2: officer in my opinion, that people might have disagreed with.
Speaker 3: That's when I think, go ahead.
Speaker 4: I know I'm gonna wrap it up. I know for facts.
Speaker 4: I know a couple of Boston officers that actually years
Speaker 4: ago got into mess and it took him years to
Speaker 4: get their job back. But they pussed them out to
Speaker 4: them listen, take an early retirement, and it was more serious,
Speaker 4: and him speaking the words that he spoke, trust me.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, well let's see. We'll see what happens. Okay.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's going to be a long time for
Speaker 2: the Civil Service Commission to deal with the case. In
Speaker 2: the meantime, we'll have to see what impact this is
Speaker 2: going to have on the second trial. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's particularly helpful to the prosecution to have this now
Speaker 2: out and about. I think a lot of people will
Speaker 2: probably hear from some of them tonight who are gonna
Speaker 2: say this just reinforces what they believe. Let me ask
Speaker 2: you this, were you surprised at what the jury came
Speaker 2: up with at last July that they couldn't arrive at
Speaker 2: a decision or no.
Speaker 4: Was I surprised about that? Yeah? Yeah I was, because I.
Speaker 2: Mean okay, let me ask you a follow up question. Okay,
Speaker 2: so you were surprised about the jury being hung. Did
Speaker 2: you think this was a strong case against Karen Reid
Speaker 2: or did you think it was a weak case against
Speaker 2: Karen Reid?
Speaker 4: Honestly, I think it was a strong case against my
Speaker 4: opinion because.
Speaker 2: Okay, so now the fact that you think it was,
Speaker 2: just the fact that you think it was a strong case,
Speaker 2: thank you. I'll give you plenty of time to respond here.
Speaker 2: Do you think that what was done by the defense
Speaker 2: lawyers to proctor or the hand on the witness stand
Speaker 2: strengthened that strong case or weakened that strong case?
Speaker 4: It just shows the Trooper's character. That's what the show is, Dan,
Speaker 4: it shows the troopers character.
Speaker 3: But did the case or strength Did that strengthen the
Speaker 3: case or weakened it?
Speaker 4: No, I don't think it's strengthened the strengthened the case.
Speaker 4: I think it made it a little you know, weak.
Speaker 3: But the atue I mean, yeah, okay, go ahead.
Speaker 4: The evidence is there. I mean, like I called you
Speaker 4: last week on this and my opinion, like I told you,
Speaker 4: I think the average is overwhelming for a guilty butt
Speaker 4: we got in her. That's all.
Speaker 2: Well, I understand that that's your position, and what I'm
Speaker 2: saying is the chances of that verdict. That's your opinion. Uh,
Speaker 2: others have different opinions, but you have a right to
Speaker 2: your And all I'm saying is that what Proctor did
Speaker 2: in the way he conducted the investigation, said next messages,
Speaker 2: made comments that that that harmed him as a witness
Speaker 2: on the witness stand, and he just acknowledged that that
Speaker 2: weak in the case. Now because his conduct as a trooper.
Speaker 2: If you're if your analysis correct, and I think it is,
Speaker 2: that it weaked the case, why would the state police
Speaker 2: not terminate him?
Speaker 4: Again, I did say the state police did what they
Speaker 4: had to do. On the other hand, I truly believe
Speaker 4: that once everything is set and done, because remember the
Speaker 4: unions are powerful. Unions are very powerful dand you know
Speaker 4: has the one right do and I, in my opinion,
Speaker 4: I believe it's going to be overturned and he's gonna
Speaker 4: give an option reinstated or or or take a retirement.
Speaker 4: Along with the fact pay that we the Tracks band
Speaker 4: provide we will, you know, Mark.
Speaker 2: The nice thing about this is that when this is
Speaker 2: all resolved, you know, a year or so or whatever
Speaker 2: it is from now, you can call me back and
Speaker 2: you can say, Dan, I told you back in March,
Speaker 2: as a matter of fact, on March nineteenth, twenty twenty five,
Speaker 2: and I was exactly right. Or you can call me
Speaker 2: back and say, Dan, I overestimated the strength of the
Speaker 2: police union on this one. The police union has to
Speaker 2: stand behind there. They're members, but I'm not sure. I'm
Speaker 2: not sure that this is one that the police. This
Speaker 2: is a hill the police union wants to die on. Think.
Speaker 2: I think the police union has some work to do
Speaker 2: on the members of the police union who were terminated
Speaker 2: because they didn't take COVID shots by Charlie Baker. Those
Speaker 2: cases are still hanging out there now, four or five
Speaker 2: years later, including the case of one female state police
Speaker 2: officer whose father died while on the and and she
Speaker 2: was fired. I think I think those people are gonna
Speaker 2: get their jobs back, in my opinion, but we'll see.
Speaker 3: Mark. I love you man.
Speaker 4: Thank you for taking me in, Hey, thank you for
Speaker 4: taking my car, Dn.
Speaker 3: You bet you? Thanks for calling in Mark, all right?
Speaker 2: Gonna take a quick break here, We're gonna take the
Speaker 2: news and then coming back. I got one line at
Speaker 2: six one, seven, nine thirty. I got a couple of
Speaker 2: lines at six one, seven, two, five.
Speaker 3: Four to ten thirty.
Speaker 2: I will get you on the year before ten o'clock
Speaker 2: because at ten o'clock, ending this discussion, we have a
Speaker 2: guest coming in the Israeli console General to New England
Speaker 2: who join us, Benny Charoni, talking about what's going on
Speaker 2: in the Middle East, what's going on with Israel renewing
Speaker 2: attacks on hamas in Gaza. This is not going into
Speaker 2: the ten o'clock hour. So if you're sitting there thinking
Speaker 2: to yourself, well, I'll wait and see what people say,
Speaker 2: we will be moving on at ten o'clock, coming back
Speaker 2: on night side.
Speaker 1: You're on night Side with Dan Ray on WZ Boston's News.
Speaker 2: So this was a big deal today. Okay, Massachusetts State
Speaker 2: Police trooper who's also detective, a homicide detective fourteen years
Speaker 2: Michael Proctor terminated simple as that terminated will how he
Speaker 2: he may be a witness in the next trial. That's
Speaker 2: what complicates things. It's fascinating. How do you think this?
Speaker 2: If you think Karen Reid was being framed. I assume
Speaker 2: this only increases your skepticism. If, on the other hand,
Speaker 2: you think it was legitimate, this has to shake your
Speaker 2: thought about the prosecution's case. Pelvis in Middleton, Pelvis, welcome, How.
Speaker 5: Are you hey, How do you doing tonight?
Speaker 3: Agree?
Speaker 5: So, yeah, no, and at the very least, not only
Speaker 5: what he said, his conduct and what he said about her,
Speaker 5: throw all that out the window. His total incompetent at
Speaker 5: the at the investigation, dropping the ball from the very beginning.
Speaker 5: He said from the beginning that this wasn't going to
Speaker 5: stick to the homeowner, never went in the house, never
Speaker 5: did a thorough investigation, the Sally Port video that's missing.
Speaker 5: There's a lot of skepticism going into this number one.
Speaker 5: So of course it's going to hurt him and the
Speaker 5: prosecution to be called back on the stand after being
Speaker 5: completely disgraced and dismantled as a detective because he dropped
Speaker 5: the ball from the very beginning. It's a one hundred
Speaker 5: percent cover up. I'll let you hit me in the
Speaker 5: parking lot at twenty eight miles an hour backing up,
Speaker 5: I guarantee you I have broken bones in my body,
Speaker 5: and you know the dog bite.
Speaker 3: I missed that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the tail light, the tail the tail light thing
Speaker 5: is is another huge incompetence on their on their part,
Speaker 5: the missing Sally Pot sally Port video of the tail
Speaker 5: light being smashed out.
Speaker 3: There's no let me play devil Devil's advocate with you
Speaker 3: just for a second.
Speaker 2: I agree with most of what you said. But my
Speaker 2: understanding and has been confirmed by the defense lawyer Hank Brennan,
Speaker 2: who I have a great who's now the prosecutor, by
Speaker 2: the way, he said, defense lawyer by trade, who have
Speaker 2: a great respect for He basically had set an open
Speaker 2: court that any federal investigation, there are all sorts of
Speaker 2: rumors about a federal investigation going on, which when you
Speaker 2: have a federal investigation, the federal looking at the conduct
Speaker 2: of the law enforcement people. So from that perspective, Michael
Speaker 2: Proctor should be able to say, you know, no one
Speaker 2: has charged him with any sort of a criminal activity.
Speaker 2: He's been charged with an inappropriate behavior as a state
Speaker 2: police homicide investigator, the head of the homicide unit. So
Speaker 2: the fact that they're.
Speaker 5: Still going to they're still going to bring that up,
Speaker 5: They're still going to bring up the sally Port video.
Speaker 2: Well, they're going to bring all that issue up, right,
Speaker 2: But but the fact that if they if apparently there
Speaker 2: was a federal investigation of some sort and the federal
Speaker 2: investigation has concluded with no charges being brought, well, that
Speaker 2: is something that if I were Michael Proctor, because they're
Speaker 2: not investigating the defense lawyers, they're not investigating the defense,
Speaker 2: would not be investigating the defense team. They probably are
Speaker 2: investigating the way that that this prosecution went forward. Now
Speaker 2: it wasn't an effective prosecution by virtue of the fact
Speaker 2: that we came back with a hung jury, but how.
Speaker 5: It was handled from the start, right by the by
Speaker 5: the lead, by the lead investigator, and.
Speaker 3: The point, that's the point.
Speaker 5: If you've got a dead guy in your front yard
Speaker 5: with a cocktail glass in his hand, do you think
Speaker 5: they're coming in your house? So I'm saying he dropped
Speaker 5: his integrity as a cop number one, not only what
Speaker 5: he said, defamation, whatever he said, you know, throw all
Speaker 5: that out. As a as a character person, you know,
Speaker 5: as his person, that's different. But I understand that those
Speaker 5: are the actions there that they're actually going off of.
Speaker 5: But this definitely, no matter what, putting him back on
Speaker 5: the stand is an absolute clown show moving forward.
Speaker 2: But but well, well, I don't know that the prosecutor
Speaker 2: will put it back on the stand.
Speaker 5: He's on the witness, he's the lead investigator.
Speaker 3: They have to what, I'm not sure.
Speaker 5: Excuse herself as well because she's in the pocket.
Speaker 2: Well again, you're making allegations of a judge. So that
Speaker 2: makes me very uncomfortable. You know, you can't you can
Speaker 2: have an.
Speaker 5: Opinion, you don't have anything with that. That's fine, But
Speaker 5: he has to be.
Speaker 2: That's gonna be a favorite's back off for a second.
Speaker 2: That's your opinion. Okay, it's my show. That's your opinion.
Speaker 2: You have nothing to prove with that. You have no
Speaker 2: you know, you have your opinion, your observations.
Speaker 3: That's it. You know you can tell me the rich
Speaker 3: Ox is going to win the World Series. That's your repeat.
Speaker 4: I went.
Speaker 5: Back to Proctor. Proctor has to come back on the stand.
Speaker 5: He's the lead investigator. Of course, he's so sure about that.
Speaker 3: I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm not so sure about that being I think he's
Speaker 2: going to be ripped apart by the defense. Maybe he
Speaker 2: will be caught. Okay, but if I were Hank Brennan,
Speaker 2: I were the prosecutor, I wouldn't want to see him
Speaker 2: in the courtroom at this point because at this point
Speaker 2: the defense is going to be asking him all sorts
Speaker 2: of questions. Do you still work for the state Police,
Speaker 2: you know, Trooper Proctor?
Speaker 6: No?
Speaker 3: I don't. Oh why is that? Did you leave the
Speaker 3: department voluntarily?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I didn't. You were to let me show you a letter.
Speaker 2: This is a letter from the colonel to you, dated
Speaker 2: March nineteenth, twenty twenty five.
Speaker 3: Would you read an open court paragraph too?
Speaker 5: I mean, well, I sort of think all of that,
Speaker 5: plus the I don't know if you saw the documentary
Speaker 5: or whatever they're doing right now is being streamed online too.
Speaker 5: I don't think any of that should be being done.
Speaker 5: This on the side point, it should not be being done
Speaker 5: right now before a second trial, because you're gonna have
Speaker 5: a hard pressed time finding and unbiased Jerry at this
Speaker 5: point to begin with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but they they may have to what they may
Speaker 3: have to do.
Speaker 2: Okay, Sometimes you can take a case and move it
Speaker 2: to another jurisdiction. It's not impossible that you can have
Speaker 2: cases that you cannot, you know, in panel a jury
Speaker 2: of a twelve or sixteen people who have the ability,
Speaker 2: you know, the jurors don't have to be blind to
Speaker 2: the case, but they have to be able to express
Speaker 2: a genuine belief that they can listen to the evidence
Speaker 2: and come to a fear. I mean, that's the whole
Speaker 2: And what happens is you get a change of venue,
Speaker 2: and it's conceivable that the prosecution might at this point
Speaker 2: have to move for a change of venue.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 5: It's a fascination from the first child that some of
Speaker 5: the jurors felt intimidated by the presence of other law
Speaker 5: enforcement in the room, and that was part of their conclusion,
Speaker 5: part of their nervousness. There was levels of apparent levels
Speaker 5: of intimidation that was direct from the lawyers of the
Speaker 5: jurors that were involved in the first case.
Speaker 4: I suppose.
Speaker 2: I suppose it depends upon what apprehension what but apprehension
Speaker 2: was why they were apprehensive. I mean, were they apprehensive
Speaker 2: because they felt that the police officers in the courtroom.
Speaker 2: You could certainly say to police officers, look, you got
Speaker 2: to commit. If you go to command, you count wear
Speaker 2: your uniform. They could be motions made on all of
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff. Maybe the police were there to
Speaker 2: support the O'Keefe family maybe the police were there in
Speaker 2: this case to support practical I don't know. I didn't
Speaker 2: cover the trial. I know enough about it that I'm
Speaker 2: smart enough to know I don't know.
Speaker 3: Everything about it.
Speaker 2: I had my own thoughts, and I've expressed them, and
Speaker 2: I'll continue to express them. Pelvis is always great to
Speaker 2: hear your voice that much. Have a good one, good night.
Speaker 2: Let me get Danielle in Worcester. Danielle, you were next
Speaker 2: on nightside. Don't want to make you wait. We'll get
Speaker 2: you in here before the break. Go ahead, Danielle.
Speaker 6: Hey, Dan, So you know my passion for this and
Speaker 6: my knowledge of this case that I've been following since
Speaker 6: day one. I don't think you've followed it very closely
Speaker 6: other than just general news.
Speaker 3: No I have.
Speaker 2: I have not read transcripts. I have not watched videotapes.
Speaker 2: I have not listened to the points for the clarity
Speaker 2: of the audience. Okay, hold on, just so that I
Speaker 2: know what you have. But tell me from my audience
Speaker 2: so they will understand where you're coming from. You your
Speaker 2: belief is that she was framed?
Speaker 3: Correct?
Speaker 5: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: Okay, no, this one. Just want people now.
Speaker 6: When we talked about this, you know the last time
Speaker 6: around it that you hadn't followed her real closely, and
Speaker 6: judge is judge them by some of your answers just
Speaker 6: now to the previous do callers, I can kind of
Speaker 6: tell that you had, had you been following them more closely,
Speaker 6: you would understand some of the comments that that these
Speaker 6: guys are making.
Speaker 2: I believe me, Danielle. I do want to explain to
Speaker 2: me the comments that you don't think I understood. Do
Speaker 2: you think I don't know what the evidence is of
Speaker 2: the Sally point?
Speaker 6: You want this last one that this last guy that
Speaker 6: just went to talk about the judge, I'm not going
Speaker 6: to love.
Speaker 3: It's the thing, daniel Danielle.
Speaker 2: Danielle, bear with me for a second, Okay, all right.
Speaker 2: I Am not going to allow anyone to They can
Speaker 2: express an opinion if they want to say, in my opinion,
Speaker 2: the judge has not been fair to Karen Reid. I'm
Speaker 2: like a judge. I will allow that in this court
Speaker 2: of conversation. But I'm not going to allow someone to
Speaker 2: try to end it as a fact. There is the
Speaker 2: difference between saying, in my opinion, I believe this judge
Speaker 2: has been unfair. There's a difference between that and saying
Speaker 2: this judges in the bag for the prosecution's lawyer.
Speaker 6: Ees, he doesn't know anybody. I mean, some of us
Speaker 6: don't know you.
Speaker 3: No, no, no, I'm a lawyer.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, you could you could tell me anything
Speaker 2: in your opinion. But when you say to me, if
Speaker 2: you want to say to me on this show, Dan,
Speaker 2: the sun rises in the east, you don't have to
Speaker 2: qualify that with me as your opinion, because we know that.
Speaker 2: But I'm running a show here which wants to try
Speaker 2: to be fear to everyone, and sometimes it's a little
Speaker 2: bit of like a.
Speaker 3: Law school class that I run.
Speaker 2: Sometimes here I might have an opinion about the judge,
Speaker 2: but I am going to express my opinion in a way.
Speaker 2: I might think she's a terrific judge. You have no
Speaker 2: idea what I think about her. But I don't want
Speaker 2: someone to come in and disparage a judge in my
Speaker 2: court in what I'm going to call this the court
Speaker 2: of public opinion.
Speaker 3: So go ahead and say what you want. Go ahead.
Speaker 6: I think that Brennan probably was you said you have
Speaker 6: a great deal of respect on him, and I'm sure
Speaker 6: you join others with that same sentiment. But I think
Speaker 6: that him taking this case, in my opinion, is going
Speaker 6: to put a couple of dents in his halo because
Speaker 6: he's not making himself.
Speaker 5: Look very good. He's repeatedly.
Speaker 6: Said false things which appeared to be deliberate and then
Speaker 6: backtrack and say, oh, no, no, no, that was a mistake.
Speaker 6: I don't mean to say it that way. He openly
Speaker 6: blamed the defense for not turning over discovery and that
Speaker 6: he got some information from the sets, and then he
Speaker 6: had to apologize and say, well, he actually didn't apologize,
Speaker 6: he just made a correction said oh, actually it was
Speaker 6: a defense that gave it to me. I mean, he's
Speaker 6: done some really.
Speaker 2: I think, let me say this, I know Hank Brennan
Speaker 2: well enough to know that when this is over, whether
Speaker 2: he successfully wins the case, meaning he convicts Karen Reid,
Speaker 2: or he loses the case, I think people will see
Speaker 2: a real trial lawyer, who normally is a defense lawyer,
Speaker 2: by the way, acting in his role as a prosecutor.
Speaker 2: And I think that he will do a better job
Speaker 2: because a lot of the decisions that might have been
Speaker 2: made by the prosecution he gets a second look. It's
Speaker 2: always easier to play the eighteenth hole if you're the
Speaker 2: if you're the second person playing the hole, because you
Speaker 2: can watch other people in front of you played it.
Speaker 3: It's the same principle.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: Uh, the guy in front of you thinks that he
Speaker 2: can he can drive at three hundred yards and avoid
Speaker 2: the stand traps. You realize when he hits the ball
Speaker 2: and it only goes to sixty, he's in the trap
Speaker 2: that maybe you're going to play it a little short
Speaker 2: at the trap.
Speaker 3: That's all I'm saying. That's that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 6: You two other quick things. I know you said you
Speaker 6: gotta go to break, but it's also important to mention
Speaker 6: that it wasn't just the text messages that Practor sent
Speaker 6: to number four. Do you know what was the fourth
Speaker 6: thing that he was found guilty of? The operating a
Speaker 6: crew there?
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, Well if you if you listen, I read
Speaker 2: just so you know, I read verbatim at the beginning
Speaker 2: of this hour the four specifications, including the one and
Speaker 2: I said trooper. According the the colonel found that Trooper
Speaker 2: Proctor consumed alcoholic beverages while eating to her on duty
Speaker 2: and then proceeded to operate his department issued cruiser.
Speaker 3: So yeah, and.
Speaker 6: Frankly, I don't think his family is doing anything good
Speaker 6: for him going out and crying about his emotional well being.
Speaker 6: Because he's a homicide detective. It's not the first death
Speaker 6: he's scene. And if he's that emotional and busted up
Speaker 6: over and that caused him to do these funny things,
Speaker 6: and maybe this isn't the job for him.
Speaker 7: But that's daniel.
Speaker 6: Ing.
Speaker 3: You've got to be really quick because I'm up the.
Speaker 6: Police officers in the courtroom the previous caller, and it
Speaker 6: wasn't about uniforms. They couldn't do that. He's talking about
Speaker 6: the family of John O'Keeffe and the third party culprits
Speaker 6: that that sat with the O'Keeffe family during closing arguments
Speaker 6: and stared the jury down, uh and made them feel
Speaker 6: very uncomfortable. Brian Albert And again that's.
Speaker 2: Again again, that's a subjective allegation on your part.
Speaker 3: Uh. And you sure have.
Speaker 6: Come forward and said that, I mean, that's not well,
Speaker 6: that's right.
Speaker 2: If two jurors have come forward and said that, Danielle,
Speaker 2: that doesn't make it so. It doesn't make it so.
Speaker 2: I'm just telling you that if you want to phrase
Speaker 2: it and say to me, well, a couple of the
Speaker 2: jurors have said they felt intimidated, and they're on the record.
Speaker 2: That's fine, but you got to be I want to
Speaker 2: make you a lawyer, Danielle. That's what I want to do.
Speaker 3: All right. I gotta let you go.
Speaker 6: Karen Reid will never be gotta go, Karen go.
Speaker 3: Thanks very much, Danielle, good night. We'll be back on
Speaker 3: night Side right after this.
Speaker 1: Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Speaker 1: night Side Studios on WBZ, the news radio.
Speaker 2: I gave everyone a warning about twenty minutes ago that
Speaker 2: you had to get in early. Now we have an
Speaker 2: abundance of callers. All of you are not going to
Speaker 2: get in. Those of you who I am going to
Speaker 2: call on. If you want to be brief and help
Speaker 2: other people who called in late, you want to do that,
Speaker 2: that's very fine, but I'm not rushing anybody.
Speaker 7: And Nick go right ahead and next to the night said, Hey, Dan,
Speaker 7: how you doing.
Speaker 4: I got two quick questions for you. I know you're
Speaker 4: a lawyer. Don't make this real quick.
Speaker 7: You said, the defense will not bring procteron. A prosecutor
Speaker 7: would not bring procteron is a witness. But what's stopping
Speaker 7: the defense from calling him is a witness.
Speaker 2: Nothing could, nothing would stop the defense from calling him
Speaker 2: as a witness. But I don't think that his appearance
Speaker 2: of the witness stand would be of any help to
Speaker 2: the prosecution.
Speaker 3: We'll see what happens.
Speaker 2: I mean, you could argue, but I think that you
Speaker 2: could argue, what's that.
Speaker 3: What I said?
Speaker 7: The defense would want him on the stand, yes, right,
Speaker 7: right right.
Speaker 2: The prosecution also might say, well, we got to put
Speaker 2: him on the stand, and we got to clean him up,
Speaker 2: and we got to clean him up by by by
Speaker 2: getting it out in front of the jury that yeah,
Speaker 2: he was terminated.
Speaker 3: That's a strategy that might be used.
Speaker 2: There'll be a tough decision for for Brendan to deal with.
Speaker 3: What's your second question?
Speaker 7: My second question is it men in Massachusetts have a
Speaker 7: case we tried with the same judge, she become the
Speaker 7: judge of the cases.
Speaker 3: It's very common.
Speaker 2: It's very common unless unless unless the judge either decides
Speaker 2: to recuse him or herself, or if there's a motion made.
Speaker 2: If one party of the prosecution defense feels the judge
Speaker 2: was un fear in the first case and they want
Speaker 2: to risk making a motion to recuse, they can that's
Speaker 2: possible as well.
Speaker 3: But uh, she she very clearly wants to sit wants
Speaker 3: to see this trial to the to the end.
Speaker 7: I think so, And I'll leave on his statement. The
Speaker 7: Albutt and McCabe's if they're not guilty, they made they're
Speaker 7: doing everything to make themselves look guilty. In my opinion, Well.
Speaker 2: Okay, in your opinion, I'm glad. I'm glad you added
Speaker 2: that in your opinion. That's your that's a good that's
Speaker 2: a good lesson.
Speaker 3: Thanks make thank you, good night, all.
Speaker 2: Have a great night. Joe and revered Joe. Gonna get
Speaker 2: you in. Maybe get one more in.
Speaker 4: We'll see, go ahead, Joe, thank you, you know, just
Speaker 4: real quick.
Speaker 8: I think the way that was definitely set up, there's
Speaker 8: too much stuff going on. Policemen losing their licenses, phones,
Speaker 8: I mean stuff like that, like couldn't find them, they
Speaker 8: lost them. A second trial. I think it's terrible. And
Speaker 8: I believe there were a lot of marketings on that
Speaker 8: officer that died that weren't related to a car accident.
Speaker 8: So like people know in that house what happened. Why
Speaker 8: aren't they bringing more people in from that house and
Speaker 8: asking them what happened that night, Joe.
Speaker 2: I'm sure that's part of the investigation and we will
Speaker 2: see how it plays out the second time.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I just think I haven't I've been following it,
Speaker 8: and I haven't seen a lot of people that were
Speaker 8: at that party that they've actually questioned.
Speaker 2: Some of them who were at that party were on
Speaker 2: the witness stand during the first trial, and I'm sure
Speaker 2: some of them be also on the on the wood
Speaker 2: stand dur in the second drop.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Joe.
Speaker 8: Okay, jan good.
Speaker 2: Night, Karen. I'm going to give you thirty seconds. Okay,
Speaker 2: there's a couple other callers who may not make it.
Speaker 2: I'll give you thirty seconds. Go ahead, Karen.
Speaker 6: Hi.
Speaker 4: Dan, So, I'm just wondering quick question.
Speaker 5: I apologize if you already answer this. What happens to
Speaker 5: Michael Proctor's other cases, They're.
Speaker 2: Going to be impacted. It will depend upon what they
Speaker 2: will find out in other cases. If he if he
Speaker 2: all all of his his reputation as an investigator, I'm
Speaker 2: sure will be invoked by defense lawyers and other cases,
Speaker 2: and what if sort of an impact that will have
Speaker 2: on the jury in those cases will obviously be It
Speaker 2: will be determined. But that's a great question. Karen, wish
Speaker 2: gave you more time. Wish you called earlier because.
Speaker 5: That was the best.
Speaker 3: Give you the best question of the night. Thanks.
Speaker 2: We are changing topics and we are going to talk
Speaker 2: about Israel, the war with hamas with the.
Speaker 4: UH.
Speaker 2: My guest schedule is the Consul General to New England,
Speaker 2: the Israeli Consul General to New England, Benny Sharoni. We
Speaker 2: will join with him and calls are invited if you
Speaker 2: want to get on dial now, come on back on Nightside.