Speaker 1: And welcome into the live hang everybody. That was eight seconds,
just to give you a frame of reference of how
long you need to inbound to basketball. I am Chuck Mockler.
Welcome to Clips and Dip. A happy hour hang, kind
of a sad hour given the state of the Clippers.
William Updyke is here, Adam Osland and we were joined
by Justin Russo justin, thank you for coming on. If
you're listening to this and you miss this, you can
find us at YouTube dot complish Act Clippers Podcast. How
are we doing? I feel broken? If I'm being perfectly honest,
I think last night's lost might have broken me. Justin,
how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm actually doing great?
Speaker 1: Happy?
Speaker 2: I mean the team's not, but I'm doing fantastic.
Speaker 3: Will ah Man, I like, personally I'm doing fine. I'm
not having any like, any amount of fun watching this team,
if that's what you're asking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean personally, I know we're all doing great
and things cannot be better team wise, difficult, Adam, How
are you? How? How have you been dealing with the callers?
How was it last night on Clippers Talk?
Speaker 4: You know, the callers are always better than the chatter,
so it turns out people that will say nasty things
in a chat room or a foum or on X
or nowhere to be found most of the time when
it comes actually calling in a show and discussing something.
It's been rough, but I am I'm bill for it.
I've been, you know, with this for two weeks now,
thinking that when is this going to get better? When
when is this going to turn around? And starting to
feel very remote that that possibility is still in the cards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they have the third worst winning percentage in the NBA.
I'm convinced at this point they might lose a game
on a shot clock violation. Like they're finding ways to
just I don't even know if crumble is the right word,
shatter U unravel. Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 3: Honestly, if you would have told me before the game,
like the because we put the over under at like eight,
I think something like that that they were going to
lose by oh yes, yeah, And I was like, oh,
if you know, if it was that close to a game,
I you know, from from a distance, I'd be like
that that doesn't seem so bad, like that's kind of
an encouraging loss. And then you see the way they
lost and there's absolutely nothing encouraging about it.
Speaker 1: Justin what do we think is contributing to this?
Speaker 2: They're bad and bad teams find ways to lose games.
Speaker 1: Isn't just as simple as that, Yeah, I how.
Speaker 3: To play basketball, though there's there's one hundred combined years
of NBA experience on the roster.
Speaker 2: I just think that in the fourth quarters they get
worn down because their best players have to play a
lot of minutes to keep them in games, and they
get exhausted. And that's why the end of games just
looks terrible. I mean, their last three losses, they were
all tied late in the fourth. Yeah, and they lose
through some random acts that I mean the other team,
the teams that are beating them are just playing better
and they're better teams. So and you're on the road
and stands the reason you're not gonna win those games.
It's kind of funny because, like as Will said, like
if someone told you before the game you're losing by
two on the road to the Rockets, you're like, oh, okay.
If someone told you you're losing by three on the
road to Minnesota Timberwolves, you're like, yeah, that's fine. But
then you see how it happens, and you're just like, well, this,
this is actually worse than if it's like I wish
I didn't know that's how they lost.
Speaker 3: Like, you know, I wish we'd just gotten blown out.
It'd be like, no, it wasn't even close. We had
no shot in that game. They had too much talent,
they were too young, too fast.
Speaker 2: I mean, they're what three and seventeen in their in
their last twenty games, which I mean, I know their
record is six and nineteen overall, but they were three
and two at one point. They weren't terrible, like they
they weren't playing great, but they weren't terrible, and you
look up and it's like Jesus, like, what's even? What's even?
I mean, I think in the fourth quarter against Houston,
the Rockets ran the same Kevin Durant Shngoon pick and
roll like four straight times, and I think they got
baskets or free throws on all of them, and you're
just like, at some point, you guys got to figure
out how to defend that, and it just didn't happen.
And that's a bad team thing.
Speaker 3: Oh great, though, yeah, we talk about that.
Speaker 1: I wish you had more shots the only one.
Speaker 4: I lost it a little bit postgame, somebody called in
and was like, you know, I get what you're saying.
Those three pointers by Kawhi and James Harden were a
little bit unnecessary, But then again, uh, who else did
they have out there to pass to? And I immediately
blurred out Sue Botts. Sue Botts was thirteen to fourteen
for the field. If somebody misses one shot, they probably
should be taking more than fourteen in a ball game.
I don't know, it just just feels like same old
store they forget about Zoo.
Speaker 1: Missus sun shot is something that you do when you're
like three for four and you're a bench guy, you
know what I mean? Like it should like you shouldn't
have one misshot with fourteen attempts when your team is
playing like they were justin you brought up. Kind of
As the game goes, they get worse and the three
game the last three games, Kawhi's fourth quarters have been terrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he gets worn out, he's tired.
Speaker 3: Like y'all wanted the team to get off to quicker
starts last year, they did it.
Speaker 1: What's the problem they didn't do that yesterday?
Speaker 2: No, I just think he's just genuinely getting worn down.
I mean, he's playing a lot of minutes. Was it
was it the Houston game he played like the fourth
most first half minutes of his of his Clippers tenure,
and the only other games he played more were at
the end of last season when they're trying to not
get not be a playing team, so.
Speaker 1: Which killed them.
Speaker 3: I think that he played twenty six minutes in that
first half because the red.
Speaker 2: Card, right thereg the hell out here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2: No, I just think he gets worn down. And we've
seen it from everybody too, like James has been worn
down in second halfs oft times. It's happened to Kawhi,
you know, it's happened to Zoo a little bit at times.
It's just they just don't have the guys. They don't
have they that they need. Like I I know, we
can sit here and be like, oh, Bradley Bill wasn't
really helpful, but you're missing a guard and they're not
getting a back obviously for the rest of the season,
so it's gonna be a problem the whole time. Yeah,
just the most old team ever. If Lebron was here
with the sciatic with the sciatic injury, and that the
Bradley Buell broke it hip it'd be perfect.
Speaker 1: On the sciatica in the beginning.
Speaker 2: Of the year and idiots, look what you did. But
also like not having Derek, like that's a big deal,
that's another rotation guy. Yeah, and it's just taking a
toll because now the bench lineups. They had to bring
brook Lopez back into the fold because their bench lineups
weren't good, Like, weren't a yeah. So it's it's it's honestly,
it's like the self fulfilling prophecy over and over, like
you just it's like the cycle you can't get out of,
and you just got to hope your starters are good
enough to kind of weather the storm to get you
to where maybe the bench isn't killing you. And it's
just it's one of those things.
Speaker 4: I keep thinking, break the cycle, break the cycle. Come on, somehow,
break the cycle, get over the hump, win one of
these games. But in particular with last night's game, to me,
fatigue isn't enough of an excuse because they're a veteran group.
Nobody's even coming to inbound the ball at the end
that was embarrassing, and when I understand Kawhi is tired,
that's why he's sailing for threes. There's another option there
of Vista Zoobots is destroying worlds like but it's that
that habit that has been going on forever with this
team is crystallized. And even when a Visa Zoobots is
thirteen to fourteen, he's still ain't gonna get many touches.
He's still gonna he's gonna be treated like he's still
a rookie, like he's still a doc Rivers and getting
pulled out in the first round series again to Golden
State Warriors because the team.
Speaker 3: Doesn't like easy solutions at them move on.
Speaker 1: Its difficult.
Speaker 4: The easier piece to win is playing through a Visa
Zoobots more, but they'll never do it.
Speaker 1: We have a super chat which we do acknowledge. If
they're appropriate, we will talk about them. Uh MB three
four oh one two is saying, can we take a
deep dive on Kui leadership. It's not gonna be deep.
I never subscribe that shit. But your best player not
being a leader doesn't work.
Speaker 3: I think looking at this Rocket's loss, it's clear like
one person isn't turning this around Like the level of
dysfunction and lack of communication, like that's you know, like
I don't think this is stemming down to any one person.
And maybe it is, you know, like Justin alluded to
it is just like fatigue and stuff that's like compiling
with some of this stuff. But this to me isn't
like they're not a locker room or huddle speech away
from this thing getting turned around. Uh, And like I
think that's like kind of the narrative we think about
with these players who are like lead quote unquote leaders
or whatever. But they had you know, a player who
is annoying but is regarded as a good quote unquote leader,
and it certainly didn't make anything any better. Of course,
he couldn't touch the floor, so that's a different conversation.
But like, I don't think that this is like a
single player needing to like get on guys situation. This
is like everybody should be so embarrassed at this point
that I don't know how you couldn't, Like I don't
know how you can. I don't know how you couldn't
be personally shamed enough into not playing better. Like I
just I don't I fully don't understand it. It makes
it worse that it's a group of veterans, like if
we were talking about a younger team and be like, oh, yeah,
it makes sense, like everybody's a dipshit.
Speaker 4: But uh, they didn't lose in twenty twenty one because
of leadership. They lost because Kawhi towards ACL It's an
oversimplification talking about, oh, we don't have a leader. It's
like no, like turns out you can win. It's about
the talent.
Speaker 1: And it's also clearly like Harden is very much the
guy who is it's not his team, but Harden is
brought up consistently by other guys as being kind of
the leader of stuff. Not that you know what I mean, Like,
it's not like this team is leader. Lists is the
other part, Like we're not floating around saying, oh, who's
you know bringing guys together. It's quite literally James Harden,
which is great.
Speaker 3: And every night the leaders should change every night.
Speaker 1: Why not you have the leader at now?
Speaker 4: When they beat Atlanta, they had better leadership that game. No,
Atlanta was missing their two top guys and the Clippers played, well,
that's what it was.
Speaker 2: And I'd just say it like, I I know people
are gonna scoff, but these last four games, they generally
have looked good.
Speaker 4: Yeah it's not like defensively.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's not like they've been terrible. And I
understand some of that is being propped up by the
Atlanta game, but even the game, the three road games
in Memphis, Minnesota, and and last night they were fine.
They just blew it in the dumbest ways.
Speaker 1: That's the issue. The issue is that it's not that
like they're not looking better. It's just that they're six
and nineteen, like like great, they're looking better and loss
Like I don't. I obviously want them to play good basketball,
but it's like there's just been so many losses already.
Speaker 4: That like whatever loss process isn't good enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so dismal like lost before eight wins. Maybe I
never thought.
Speaker 3: I never thought it would be possible.
Speaker 1: For it to be that bad.
Speaker 4: It's they're they're two and ten in clutch games now,
I mean they've lost eighty eight. Like you look at it.
A lot of their numbers say their records should be
better than this. A lot of the numbers with the
Lakers say their record should be worse than that, but
I'm saying, like to Justin's point, they they have looked
better than what their record is. Like the reason is
in those close games they're losing all the coin flips.
And I'm not I'm not just you know, reducing it
to a coin flip. It matters how you play down
the stretch, and I do agree they've been getting tired,
like that's that's what you see.
Speaker 2: There's there's a statistic in soccer that's called XG, which
is expected goals and basically like it, it determines how many,
like on average, based on historical data, how many goals
you would score each game based on where like you
got your shots from and stuff, and teams outperform and
underperform that all the time in games. It kind of
feels like that's where the Clippers are. They're just underperforming
what they're underlying data is. But that doesn't matter because
they're six and nineteen and at a certain point the
data is the data, but you need the results that
kind of go over that, and they're just not getting
it through a myriad of reasons. We can spend seven
days talking about like they're just when you're a bad team,
you just find ways to lose games, even if you
have good players. That's just the way it is.
Speaker 1: I let this comment from Chandasouk said or could have
had a fortuny record that is ruined. That is maybe
the worst part of the whole year is that that
somehow was realistic, which is difficult. Someone put a comment
about John Collins production, which I would say, I'm in
this weird camp where I don't want to see a
young guy traded away, maybe by ing jaded by the
fact that we have no youth really on the team.
But he's also been very has not been helpful very
much for the team so far, so it's like, I
think they should continue to give him a shot, but
it's been a little disappointing from the John Collins aspect.
He was better off the bench, which Tyler did get right.
I think we can all kind of agree on that,
but like I want him to be better and I
I just don't know, he's not rebounding. Even when we
get good offensive games from him, we still lose. So
I guess it doesn't really.
Speaker 2: Matter that much.
Speaker 1: But like, what's the key, right, Like, what's the key
to having John Collins more productive?
Speaker 2: You were so close to just be like, what's the point.
Speaker 1: I was very close to that, Oh, like do do
we just keep him or are they going to train
him for DeMar de Rosen.
Speaker 2: I could see them flipping him for someone or keeping them.
I don't think it's I don't think they've actually decided
as of this second. I genuinely think that they.
Speaker 1: They're just very much games they need to be twelve
and whatever the hell.
Speaker 2: I think they very much just are trying to see
like what their team even looks like. I think we
kind of have like kind of under undervalued and it
doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things just because
of their record, but like we've kind of undervalued how
little they've had their team together, even if you just
take away the Bradley Beal aspect, like.
Speaker 1: Of course, like they haven't been a huge issue.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like last season at this point, I don't really
think they had any injuries outside of just the fact
that they just didn't have Kawhi, so like their team
was altogether the whole time. So this season, you go
into camp with Kawhi, he gets hurt like six literally
in the sixth game, and he's out for ten or
eleven games. But Bradley Beildn fractures his hip and he's out,
but before that he was in and out of the lineup.
And then while all that's happening, Bogie got hurt, and
then Derek got hurt, and it's just this, you know,
this non stop, just stream of injuries that have kind
of upset what your rotation should have been. And then
the Chris Paul thing happened where he's being dmped, and
then obviously now he's not with the team anymore. Yeah,
no one knows, ye, So it's just kind of all
that stuff. And I genuinely don't think they know what
their team is, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like they still don't know. And the sad reality
of the situation is the West playing, they're gonna have
a chance, Like they're gonna get a chance. I know,
I know they're gonna be close to that ten seed,
and that's gonna be the thing that could potentially quote
unquote save their season. And you end up looking at
the nine to ten Memphis is eleven and thirteen, which
sounds terrible, but then you realize they're five games better
than the Clippers, which is another sad thing.
Speaker 1: To really it also sounds terrible.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it could be they can beat them on Monday night.
Speaker 2: This ye yeah right, and you know what, they could
also lose and be's like seven games back. Yeah, that
could happen.
Speaker 4: But if your best opportunity right now is to get
in the ninth or tenth spot, that also means a
first round matchup at best with Oklahoma City where you
are going to get swept or gentleman swept. If that is,
if that is your best case scenario, I think you
got to take a real look at shaking this thing up.
Speaker 1: I could not agree more. Honestly, I don't. The only thing, well,
I should not say that one of the things that
can contribute to this to being one of the least
enjoyable seasons and quite some time for the Clippers would
be getting four oed with a minus one hundred and
seventy eight point differential against the OKC thunder. That would
be a god in a season of nightmares. That would
be the sleep paralysis demon. That would be the Clippers team.
Speaker 4: What some would say like that's the perfect ending or
poetic justice to this era. They end up getting beat
at the hands of their own trade with SGA killing
them in a series.
Speaker 1: This is so brutful.
Speaker 2: It's like Victor Frankenstein getting the crap kicked out of
him by the Monster.
Speaker 1: You know, they're on face versus. How many games do
we think they win? I guess, like, honestly, now that
we're twenty five games in, yeah, there's been probably some
I assume there's gonna be some kind of move made.
How many games do we think this team wins? Do
they are they going to track for this comment from
Jimmy Dot Williams for twenty and sixty two? Or do
they flirt with thirty three?
Speaker 2: What a hilarious flirtation that is?
Speaker 1: Well, that's where we're at, dude. Yeah, when it's one
thirty five at the bar, dude and we are flirting
with thirty three wins?
Speaker 3: What do you need wins to make the ten? See?
Speaker 2: I guess the pen name, you're probably gonna need thirty five.
Let's just assume thirty five?
Speaker 1: Are they there?
Speaker 2: And that might be on the conservative side based on
whatever happens with Memphis?
Speaker 1: I mean, do you have an eighteen game parlay setup
where they go eighteen to zero in March? So let's
assume that that cash is out.
Speaker 2: By the way, first team, first team in ten seasons
to play at least eighteen games in March.
Speaker 3: I think they didn't do it last year.
Speaker 4: They like they had seventeen.
Speaker 1: Sixteen reference they had a reschedule one that I think
fucked them over in March.
Speaker 2: The Clippers in Detroit this year will both play eighteen
games in March, the last team to do that. I
looked it up a couple of days ago because I'm stupid.
It's a it was. There was a season I want
to say, was it fifteen sixteen. I think it was
where the Clippers and Milwaukee Bucks both played eighteen games
as well in March.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll be the first team to go eighteen.
Speaker 2: And a man, great and they could come close to like.
Speaker 1: Is it gonna be like twenty seven wins?
Speaker 2: I don't know if they get to thirty, Like you
gotta remember, there's fifty seven games left, so to get
the thirty, to get to thirty, to get to thirty,
they got to win twenty four of those fifty seven,
which I know sounds like, oh, well, then they're losing
thirty three, so it's it's not that bad. But they're
nowhere close to that pace right now, right.
Speaker 4: I I I would say if they kept this roster
of the west the rest of the way, they would,
But I don't think that's going to happen. Honestly. I
think we're going to I think we're gonna see moves.
Lawrence Frank said it justin you were there. He said,
if this roster isn't as good as I thought I
was going to be, then will be extremely aggressive or
something to that effect. Well, he always makes night they're
six and nineteen.
Speaker 1: He does always make trades.
Speaker 2: That is that is true. I don't want to shake up.
Speaker 1: Will probably get something Laurences.
Speaker 4: But the question is he hasn't been in this position
before where there's a real opportunity here to punt on
this season.
Speaker 1: This is actually the best take of the whole year.
The Clippers should have kept Ben Simmons.
Speaker 3: He was badly used last season.
Speaker 4: I mean used this.
Speaker 1: It's finally valid. All right, Sorry, I've never used that yet.
Go ahead at him.
Speaker 4: No, I mean he's cooking right now. He is really
dominating for Okay, good luck to Ben Simmons and getting
healthy and getting back into the league. I just this
is uncharted territory for the Clippers in this era.
Speaker 1: Yeah, quite literally the last fifteen years. It's their worst start.
Speaker 4: So I don't know how to predict how Lawrence Frank
is going to handle this. Is he going to be aggressive?
A shakeup could mean you're just making lateral moves like
you mentioned maybe trading somebody for Demato Rosen. Trading John Collins?
Does that make better chemistry with this team or is
it more of a tear down and look towards the
future if.
Speaker 1: They get rid of athleticism.
Speaker 2: What athleticism that's true? I guess athleticism is there to
get rid of.
Speaker 1: Well Collins. There's only one guy, and it's John Collins,
and he's the only team So if we get rid
of him, who is running down the court faster than
anyone else on the other team.
Speaker 4: He's had had some nice plays that have been really
encouraging the last couple of weeks he has, but then
he also has games that remind you that you know,
this trade didn't work out the way we thought it
was going to.
Speaker 1: He doesn't grab boards. It's someone like if Brooke Lopez
is on the floor and Collins is on the floor,
people don't grab rebounds.
Speaker 2: The rebounding thing is like the biggest problem. And it's
not like specifically just him, because it's a it's an
entire team wide issue this year. But man, it's it
sounds kind of sad to say it's caused me to
reevaluate how I look at players and bad teams and
bad situations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this season has caused me to reevaluate a lot.
Speaker 4: But like.
Speaker 2: I had talked to people who cover the Utah Jazz
and they told me, like, he had a great year
last year, and he did, He genuinely had a very
good year last year. And they said, how great of
a person he is? Great, he is a great person.
I'm not going this isn't anything against John Collins the person.
I just don't know.
Speaker 1: None of this is against the players.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I don't know, I don't know what has
happened to where maybe maybe it's because he can't be
a number four, like that could be a real thing.
Like he just he fades in and out of like
what his responsibilities are because he's not as engaged and stuff,
which that does tend to happen to guys. We've seen
that happen to.
Speaker 1: Guys, like moving down to like when he was the
sixth man, basically he was effective.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he had a he had a bigger share of
what an offensive workload would be. And now he's kind
of just It's not that they don't look for him enough.
I just don't think he's putting himself in the right
spots all the time. You could see he still trying
to learn how to play with guys, Like he's trying
to figure out where to be with Zoo on the floor,
He's trying to figure out where to be with Kawhi
because him and Kawhi tend to weirdly occupy some of
the same spots in the half court, where like John
wants to be near the elbow, and it's like, that's fine,
but that's not you. And I wish he'd just stopped
shooting mid range shots in general, but that's not gonna happen.
But yeah, it's it's a team wide epidemic. But I
look at John, it's just like, I don't know, is
it just a bad year? Certainly possible, But also it's
caused me to reevaluate how I look at guys who
are on bad teams but are performing well. When you
try to scale them to a role on a new
team that isn't the same one that they had on
the old team, Like he was the number one, number
two guy sometimes, like because Lori Marknham was in and
out of the lineup. So things look better when you're
getting eighteen shots a night compared to like ten.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's He's also on the most talented team he's
been on. I know he went to the Eastern Conference
Finals thanks to Kevin Herder cooking Philly in Game seven
and Ben Simmons not taking a shot. But he talked
about the expectations and accountability coming into this eason a
lot with you guys justin and like being held to
a higher standard and stuff. And his processing has just
looked slow for this Clippers team so far. And it
could just be adjusting to a new team, or it
could be a bad fit.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Has the pace kept up, Remember we talked about that,
Like we assumed the pace was going to slow down
to the league as a.
Speaker 4: Whole, it has. Okay, there's only one team now above
one O three I think.
Speaker 1: All right, so that's worse than never mind, let's strike
that from the record that.
Speaker 3: He was brought into play you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's been had, he's been thrown into a
starting lineup that he wasn't going to be a part
of initially.
Speaker 1: And the missing other guy, like, yeah.
Speaker 4: Hold on, we heard everybody wanted him because you needed
somebody for Aaron Gordon, you need somebody for these bigger
power forwards. He did not guard Aaron Gordon well, he
did not guard Julie is Randall well recently at all.
It is not a strength of his, Like the idea
of John Collins is not matching on the court reality
of John Collins against some of these fours.
Speaker 2: I also kind of think this is just reinforced to
the front office and the team that their best way
forward is Kawhi Leonard at the four. I generally think
that's what they've What they've actually kind of just realized is, hey,
he was at the four for all this time and
we were great. Now we tried to put him at
the three and through all these other reasons. Not just that,
but like, we're this isn't going how we thought, and
somehow we're worse rebounding the ball when last year we
were the best defensive rebounding team in the league, and
now we just can't rebound. We're getting pushed around on
the interior all night.
Speaker 1: Anyways, they're not boxing out. They were just trying to
jump with Houston yesterday.
Speaker 2: Which is also a very tired thing. That their tired
thing that teams is like when you're tired, you don't
box out anymore. You want to you don't want to
hit people, so you just jump for the ball. You're
not out jumping Houston. Okay, like it.
Speaker 1: What do you think their second jump is compared to
like everyone on the Clippers second jump.
Speaker 2: I saw the I saw the chat guy saying he
shouldn't dribble every again. No, he should not, he should not.
I don't mean to sound rude. It's I don't think
it's worked out one time, and if it has, I
don't remember it. But like, just don't dribble.
Speaker 4: I I will say, you mentioned them jumping for that
rebound late and then the and one from Amen Thompson
was usually one of the big deciding factors in the game.
The effort has been there over the last few weeks.
Like I, for the most part, I have had zero
with the effort maybe so I mean right right, they're
playing hard. That's that's the downside to it, so everybody's
getting on Then Wyley looks so bad late in the
game because they're gassed because they're still playing hard out
there except for one play and that was at the
very end and they didn't have a timeout, and that
was just embarrassing in the low point of the season
on the court to me, and that that was like
Nikopa Toom having to run over there while James Harden
and Kawhi Leonard are near half court like they think
there's one second left instead of eight seconds left. And yes,
I know they were going to foul intentionally up by three,
but you have to see that through and extend the game.
Speaker 1: That was just, well, what's been your low point? Was yesterday?
Your low point?
Speaker 3: That's gotta be up there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, both, that's really bad. I think the thirty to
whatever run was maybe mine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was just you, that was my That was Miami.
Speaker 1: Yes, you don't see that a lot, not enough, honestly,
I hope, yeah, I to see it again.
Speaker 3: But I'm good on the John Collins experiment though, Like
if we traded him, I'm not. I'm not losing any sleep.
Speaker 1: I'd actually like that's what's difficult.
Speaker 3: If we were fully healthy and he wasn't that like
and he was in that sort of like backup for
small ball backup kind of all like, I think that
kind of makes sense. I was never as sold on
the John Collins idea that so many Clippers fans were
like chomping on the bid at.
Speaker 4: I didn't really like, you won't find an now they
don't exist. That never happened. They weren't talking about him
for years.
Speaker 2: For years. It's very funny to think they all wanted
Norm traded for John Collins, and that's exactly what happened,
and it just hasn't worked out. Not to say that's
the only problem with the team. I know, I keep
saying that, but like sometimes the devil, you know, you know,
you just stick with the one, you know.
Speaker 4: They were people were killing Norm after the playoff series
against Denver and it's like, there's a bigger picture here,
and they still won fifty games and the regular season
still matters, and you can't just totally discount that because
a guy has a bet playoffs series.
Speaker 3: The low point to me this year, right, if they
won fifty this year would be the most impressive feet
in sports.
Speaker 1: They would make a out of it and it would
be like angels in the outfield and like it would be.
Speaker 2: They have to go what forty four and forty forty
four and seventeen?
Speaker 1: The rest of the way doable mathematically.
Speaker 2: It's it's like that. It's like called the the whiteboard
that team's put up, like for the motivation, why not
US forty four? Why about us?
Speaker 1: They're like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: The low point for me was the Dallas game, m
Like from an actual like oh no, it's just over,
Like just being there for that was a It was
because of how it happened to It was of all
the guys to let go off. It's the one guy
that you've played against more than anybody and you know what.
Speaker 4: He can do.
Speaker 2: And veterans were messing up the coverages and it was
just like, oh yeah, no, you're just it's like you're
just you're just not there. Like and then obviously the
Miami like getting pasted in Miami late in the second
quarter and into the third was a thing. But they've
actually rebounded from that very well. It just hasn't mattered.
Speaker 1: So that's the thing. I'm like, just the results have
been difficult. I do wanna the lost.
Speaker 4: Played awesome the last four games, guys, real talk hang
your hat on.
Speaker 1: That I do want to talk about because of the
Houston thing. It was kind of a thing on Twitter,
the media availability stuff, which seemed weird. Uh justin you
reached out to ask the Clippers, like what happened, they
told you that they just like there wasn't anyone there.
And then Houston reporter Kelly Ico, who is a very
good legit reporter, said that there were people there and
people are ready to transcribe. It's weird. And I also
think Lobbery was talking about this and Miriam Swanson what
the like how hard it is to be independent media,
Like you can't go to Houston for this game, Like
it just that's not how this shit works. So like
beat guys can't really go to it. Do we think
that were there people there? Did they just not want
to have it? Was Tyler just like not wanting to
talk to the media. What do we think happened?
Speaker 2: So when Kelly tweeted that, I was immediately like, as
a media member, I'm concerned because that's like, of course
it's a big story. If they flat out declined to
do media like, that's a big deal to me. I
would never I've had that happen in a post game
with a player, and I was like, like, okay, but like,
you never see that out of coaches really, right anymore?
So I was like, oh shit, like and especially out
of Tie. I don't think Ties ever declined to do media.
I think I've I racked my brain last night trying
to think about it. I couldn't recall a single time
he's declined to do media.
Speaker 3: If he had diarrhea, he was simply sick to his
stomach from how poorly the team has been playing.
Speaker 1: You understanding no one, no one brought that up.
Speaker 3: So you should have to release a statement. If you
have diarrhea. You can just say, oh, we thought nobody
was there, that's our bad.
Speaker 1: No, you should release the statement because everyone's like, oh shit, okay,
all right, okay.
Speaker 2: So I reached out. So I reached out just to
find out. And I was told that by the time
Tie had made his way into the room, no one
was in there, and that was kind of the gist
of it. And I was told like, because James Harden
did a post game last night in the locker room, right,
So I was I was kind of like Okay, so
James did it, but not tie, but like you know,
all right, so and then Kelly says obviously, well no,
there were people in the room. What what I will say,
that's a great comment, by the way.
Speaker 1: That would have worked. No one would care. Sorry, absolutely right.
Speaker 2: So what I will say is, and into a dome
this year for people who don't know where media sit,
We're on the third level and the pressroom is on
level one. I don't know what it is in Houston,
but I'm just giving that for the clarification of what
has happened sometimes this year. Into it is after a
Clipper game, which has been losses for the most part.
What has taken place is Tye has gone very quickly
to do postgame. Got it from the time There was
one instance that from the time I made it from
level three down to level one, and I went down
through the ball section, not through the elevator, which can
take longer. I went down through the ball section. Took
me about ninety seconds after the final buzzer. Ty was
already in there talking, oh shit. So I don't know
how quickly, like I said, I wasn't there in Houston.
I don't know how quickly he made it from final
buzzer to into the room, saw and according to their messaging,
saw no one was in there, and it was just
like all right, like I can go. So I don't
know the logistics of the time.
Speaker 4: I'm ad this. It's not the first post game recently
on the road that he hasn't done anything because there
hasn't been media there.
Speaker 2: Correct. The last time he did media was December third
in Atlanta, and that's been it. That's the last time
he spoke to any media member on the record for anything.
Not to say he's been ducking the media, it's just
that's just the way it is.
Speaker 1: Because Chris Finch talked about it.
Speaker 2: There hasn't been traveling media to quite a few of
these road games. It just is what it is. And
so if there's no media there, for the most part,
coaches will not talk. At least Ty hasn't talked. I
don't know the logistics for every other team in the league, obviously.
I'm just saying, like, I think both things could be true,
and I won't know until I talk to more people.
Both things could be true. Ty could have went in
there right after the final buzzer. No one was in there,
they just left and people could have went in there
and waited for him and he just didn't show up,
just because of the timing the aspect of everything. I'm
not saying that's what happened. I don't know I happened.
I'm just giving plausible scenarios, So I don't know. It's
a it's an interesting situation. Like I said, as a
media member, it made me wonder, like what the hell
is going on?
Speaker 4: Like what justin you said by the time Ty got there,
they were gone. It made me wonder because the media
member that responded to you on Twitter said they went
there immediately after. Isn't it possible they got there so
quickly Coach lud took some time and by the time
he got there, they had already left, assuming he wasn't coming.
Speaker 2: I guess it's possible. Kelly did say that they were
told he's not talking, so I don't.
Speaker 1: That's the weird That's the part where I'm like, what
the he But see.
Speaker 2: I don't. I'm not there, so I don't know where
that conversation took place. I'm not, like I said, I'm
not refuting what Kelly said he was there. I'm saying
what I was told and then trying to I guess understand.
I'm yeah, I'm trying to understand, like what the situation was.
Now at the end of the day, it's not the
end of the world, but it is a concerning situation
where it was relayed as one thing and it entirely
could have been that. And then I'm and then I
asked for clarification, get another thing. So I'm trying to, like,
I'm demented in the head, so I'm trying to like
build how this is at all possible on both sides
to where they're both accurate and true, because you know,
there's there's one side, there's the other side, and somewhere
in the middle there's probably the truth, and I don't
know what actually happened.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it plays into just the it's a shit season.
The hell is going on this season.
Speaker 2: It's a shit season and a shit situation. And then
it just all comes together on one night and on
one balmy Thursday evening in Houston, Texas talking about this season.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they got the h the Grizzlies Monday nighted into it.
The Grizzlies will have job Morant back, which helps the Clippers.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be so sure anymore.
Speaker 1: I am so intrigued as what the fan specifically the
wall and the swell vibes are going to be on Monday. Adam,
what do you think the vibe is going to be
an into it on Monday against the Grizzlies.
Speaker 4: I've been saying for a bit they've probably been fortunate
to be out there on the road because the fan
base has been so upset. From what I've been hearing
postgame all the time. I wonder you get smoked at home.
You lose games the way they've been losing them at home,
the fan base, you're probably gonna hear some booze these
you're paying customers. They're upset right now. They want to
winning product. They thought they were gonna be much better
than this, so it's a difficult situation. My hope is
is that they're actually gonna help elevate this Clippers team
out there and give them a boost.
Speaker 3: I have many gripes with this team, but you gotta
a little bit feel. You gotta a little bit feel
for the ticket reps right now, because I'm seeing some
screenshots that they try to get people who have been
long term season ticket holders people who have bought VIP packages,
certainly for this season and since into a dome to
renew right now.
Speaker 2: And oh my.
Speaker 3: God, I cannot think of something I would much less
rather do than spend a bunch of money ahead of
time to commit to forty two games of this in
another season.
Speaker 2: Can I just say, I think being a ticket rep
with this team this season might be the toughest job
in America.
Speaker 1: I think most seasons, because guys get hurt all the time.
People are always talking about like they're raising our prices.
I don't know if guys are gonna play, And that's the.
Speaker 4: Thing that.
Speaker 3: Up every single year. And what I understand considerably with
the move, Dame, I guess makes sense it's a new
stadium or whatever. But uh, oh, buddy, talk about to
talk about a bunch of flak you you don't deserve
for doing your job.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I just hope fans are not being
mean to the ticket reps who were just tried to
do a job that is. Yeah, like it's I mean,
Adam said, fans might boo.
Speaker 1: They're gonna.
Speaker 4: Here's the thing, if they're getting smoked by the Lakers,
like next week at home, that happens at sporting events.
Speaker 2: No, what I was gonna snow. What I was gonna
say though, is like I'm kind of surprised they haven't yet, like.
Speaker 1: Like Adam said, they haven't. It's the worst of the
season has they've been gone.
Speaker 4: Sure, but there.
Speaker 2: Weren't even really booze after the Memphis and Dallas games,
like even during that when they were blowing those games, like.
Speaker 4: But it wasn't a blowout as the thing. Like I
think there's a difference.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I also just think that like I don't know,
I I've seen so much happen like overseas in Europe
with like soccer teams and like the way that fans
are like on teams and front offices and ownership.
Speaker 1: Good healthy relationships like yeah yeah, the support they're ultras.
Speaker 2: So like it's funny. I don't know. I kind of
if you're a fan, be vocal if it's like it's
your money you're spending, and I feel like you should
be vocal about that. And this is also just another
thing I have lately where it's like I saw the
World Cup ticket prices and I nearly had I nearly
had an aneurysm.
Speaker 1: That's actually real quick, dude. Yeah, they've also like you
have to pay like a fee to reserve the chance
to buy a ticket. There's no limit on the resales
for World Cup tickets. There used to be a limit
that you could only sell them for X amount over.
They removed all that. Anyway, it's insane and it's uh
demand based pricing too, so it's like a goddamn nightmare.
So the cheap seats are actually really expensive because so
many other people want them.
Speaker 2: They raised the ticket prices after the draw happened, which
I understand. I understand that happens. It happens with march
madness all the time. Is another thing, the same.
Speaker 1: Thing with like, yeah, it doesn't mean it's not fucked up, but.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, no it is. But that's that's my point though,
is like it's it's ridiculous, like you're taking advantage of people.
And I kind of feel like fans can make their
voices heard in very unique ways. And one of them,
obviously is you go to a game and you just boo.
The other thing I've seen fans do is not do anything.
I've seen fans who go to a game and in
protests won't oh yeah, we'll make no noise and that's
actually like an eerie protest of sort of terrifying. Yeah,
and it like it does send a message, lou because
like having no emotion is quite jarring to in person.
Speaker 4: But then didn't the Suns talk about that last year
with Devin Booker. They're fans. Yeah, it's just appathy.
Speaker 1: They six minutes of silence for the six wins that
we have, So no chanting from the wall for six minutes.
The other things that are the game.
Speaker 2: That would actually be crazy. I mean in Europe, there
was a protest this past weekend, uh for Wolves Wolverhampton
Wanders in the English Premier League. They're in the midst
of basically the worst well just just hear me after
they're in the midst of literally the worst Premier League
season by any team in history. Okay, like through through
I think it's like through the first fifteen games they
have two points. It's absolutely like they're they're terrible. It's
it's worse. Okay, it's like the Wizards, but worse somehow.
But what's it. What's ended up happening was the fans
in a protest. There was I think thousands of fans
who didn't show up into the stadium until like fifteen
minutes into the game. Oh wow, Yeah, so like half
the stadium is empty and then fans fifteen minutes in
just came in. And it's like, it's that still sends
a message. But the other thing I was gonna say
is like, don't spend money on a product that isn't
delivering to the level you want it to. It's the
main thing. I'm an Angels fan, but it's my number
one It's my number one gribe with Angels fans. Yeah,
Jesus christ Man, I know it's rough, buddy, but.
Speaker 1: That's the hardest fano amount of all four of us,
I think of all of the sports that we like.
Speaker 2: That's what I told people. My number one thing with
the Angels has been why are fans still spending money
on a product that A doesn't care about you to
put out a winner and B that's that it's nice,
Hell yeah, But why are you spending money on a
product that it isn't giving you anything? And it's very
terrible and just isn't valuing your relationship with the team.
So I'm telling fans, I'm not saying fans they have
to boy, coy. I'm just saying if, of course, if
like just just speak up or don't show up, like
like those those are the options. Like at the end
of the day, like if you want to see any change,
make it happen, it's gonna be on them because fans,
at the end of the day, hold the voting with
your dolly.
Speaker 4: I would like to uh set apart Steve Balmer from
Artie Marino, who is cheap. The Angels have been run
extremely poorly for fifteen years now. While the Clippers have
been winning, they haven't won the highest level. And he
beat the built them a new stadium, and he very
much cares about the fans.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 4: My fans have a right to be able to boo
and voice their displeasure. But I hope they try to
give them a lift, give them a lift. They're turning home.
Let's try to turn this thing around to get a
win over Memphis Monday night.
Speaker 1: And they're trying to games right. Like we said, if
they were.
Speaker 4: Giving no effort, right, if it would be one thing,
if they were dogging it and giving no effort. They're
losing late. They can't get over the hump late. It
feels like a mental block right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do agree. By the way, I'm not sitting
here and saying like from the opening tip just bash
the team like they are trying and you should try
to uplift your team. I'm just saying like, at the
end of the at the end of the day, fans
do have a voice, and I am urging just fans,
you do matter, and just try to make your voice
hurt if nothing is changing.
Speaker 3: I feel like, yeah, don't send us sixteam failed trade
machine screenshots, go to the game, or don't go to
the game and boo or don't like I think tell
tell the.
Speaker 1: Team will What do you think the over under is
on confiscated signs for the home game against the Grizzlies.
Speaker 3: I think that people. I'm actually kind of on board
with Adam's thing, like they have been on the road
for a long time. Oh I hope that, but I'm
hoping that there's a positive that there's a positive reception
and it yields to a better result. But I do
think that, Yeah, like, if if fans want to be heard,
that's the that's the place to do it.
Speaker 1: Nine and a half is my guess. I think they're
gonna have to confiscate.
Speaker 3: At least one half of the sign.
Speaker 1: Yeah, huh, one half of a sign.
Speaker 2: They have not won a home game since Halloween. Do
you know how long ago that was?
Speaker 3: Like, well, they only want two games in the month
of November, didn't they?
Speaker 2: Yes, But I'm just saying they about what at home
since Halloween?
Speaker 1: Great Halloween Dodgers one was a great Halloween. What do
we think of the MPG rumors? I don't want his
I don't want his podcast on this team, and he's
hurt all the time.
Speaker 3: Adam your silence?
Speaker 4: What are what are they giving up? I don't know
his current contract situation, isn't it somebody in year earlier
in the chat, I think that Mexican Nara was like, oh,
Adams finally on board with the shake of I think
I said two weeks ago, if you're willing to trade guys,
I'm fine with that, as long as you're not bringing
back bad contracts. You have to listen one one expiring
contract for another something. If they're gonna make a move,
do not limit yourself in the future from that plan.
Ultimately in twenty twenty six and twenty twenty seven to
have more room.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's the like we're not saying
stan Pat MPJ is at thirty eight million this year,
call that forty point eight next year, and then an
unrestricted free agent in twenty seven to twenty eight, when
he will be twenty nine years old.
Speaker 4: And her he checked my criteria, then he's a free
agent in twenty twenty seven. If you're just if you're
just trading out guys that would be free agents in
twenty twenty seven for more guys that will be free
agents in twenty twenty seven, to try to shake things up,
to try to try something different, I'm okay with that.
Speaker 3: And he seems like a high IQ guy.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think of all the content he'd be
able to produce in Los Angeles, which is yeah, we need, yeah,
we need. You know, what the team needs is actually
really big distractions off the court. Other than the Aspiration scandal,
which Adam, I think it was a week or so ago.
Time has moved very interesting for Clippers fans. But you
kind of mentioned like, do we think the Aspiration deal
is like making is weighing on them at all? And
I don't. I is sah No, you asked, Oh, you
asked if it would make Kawhi harder to trade.
Speaker 4: Yeah, does it do?
Speaker 1: We think it does. Justin For those of you listening
to this later, Justin is silently nodding in a gray hoodie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. I talk with someone when they were
home recently. There's like a murky about whether or not
he can be traded because of the investigations.
Speaker 1: Because it's so not because people think that he's guilty
or whatever the Clippers, just because of what is happening,
because you don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: Right, Yes, it's it's sort of like the Terry Rogier situation,
where like there's a murkiness. No, I'm just saying though
from like a trade aspect, where like there's murkiness about
whether Rogier can even be traded.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, And granted it's further down the line as far
as he's concerned in terms of what has happened, but
there's still like a general thought from who I talk
to that even the league is like, uh, we'll cross
that bridge when we get there. And because like nobody knows,
so I don't know, truth be told, I don't think
Kawhi is getting traded, not because of the investigation. I
just think that they'll go to him and they'll let
him know, like, hey, it's whatever you decide. I think
he wants to I think he still wants to be.
Speaker 1: Here, and his value is really weird to calculate.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we've said for a long time they're
not going to blindside him because of what happened with Blake.
They're not going to go down that road again. He's
going to have to agree upon this just Yeah, I
wouldn't think. But Okay. My question though, then, is like
if you can't, if you can't trade Kawhi, can you
also then just not have a teardown, because what you're
gonna trade everybody but Kawhi and just have him with
a bunch of young guys. Is that realistic?
Speaker 2: You think?
Speaker 1: Damn, that's a good point.
Speaker 2: I don't think there's any pathway for them that is
super clean. I think it's fair. I think you kind
of just play it.
Speaker 4: Hello Bucks looking clean in twenty twenty seven, though, justin
look at real clean.
Speaker 1: Sure they have a wait, there is a hellscape currently
right now between us and twenty twenty seven. It feels
like when you say twenty twenty seven, the way the
season's going it feels like I'm in nineteen ninety two
and I'm like, that is so far away. I'm not
that's a fake year. Man.
Speaker 2: Have you guys seen the John Mlaney bit when he
talks about, uh, the yeah, twenty thirty, that's not a
real year.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I genuinely think they're gonna play it by
years and take it as it comes, because hypothetically, I'm
not reporting anything obviously, I'm just saying, like, if if
a team calls you and offers you two first for
a beats to the zoo Bots, hypothetically, do do you
take it like you're not gonna get it this year? Yeah? Yes,
well one first this year hypothetically, I know that, Like if.
Speaker 1: It's two first and one.
Speaker 4: Of them is this year and we like, I don't
who's the team?
Speaker 2: Well that's what I'm saying, Like it's gonna depend on team.
But also like.
Speaker 1: Boston, I guess like that's the most real Like what
are the realistic options?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't know.
Speaker 1: Pacers wouldn't do it because why would Like they have
a gonna have a good pick this year.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you right now. If the Pacers call them
and give them it, Oh.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that's a top ten pick.
Speaker 1: That's the top Yeah, Like that would be no.
Speaker 2: The Clippers luck Zoo would be so good. He would
deliver them to the play it and he'd just be like,
all right, Like what do you do?
Speaker 1: He puts up thirty five, He averages thirty five, thirteen
and nine.
Speaker 2: But like, but I'm just saying, like, hypothetically, if you
get two first for Zoo, or a team comes calling
for Derek because Derek's been good when he's been on
the floor, I know I love Derek Jones, or if
a team does come calling for James and James is
totally acceptable to the trade, and or or James comes
to them and says, hey, this isn't going as well
as as either of us would have hoped. Can you
move me to so and so? What do you do?
Speaker 4: My point is, if you trade one of James or Kwhi,
like you just got to do all of it, then
at that point, right, is a domin no effect, Like
you're gonna trade James but not Kawhi. How would Kawhi
feel if everybody else is getting picked off and he's
fresh Prince of bel Air. In the final episode, in
the empty room. I just it doesn't make sense. It
seems weird. Is that how they would get Kauai on
board with wanting to move on because he sees that
this group is no longer on his timeline.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, Kawhi, we're gonna trade everybody, but you may.
Speaker 4: We will not trade you unless you sign off on it.
We will trade everyone else, And that could move him
to a place where he's more comfortable being traded. I
don't know, it could It could be that.
Speaker 2: It also could just be and I know fans aren't
gonna want to hear this. It could also just be
a situation where they wait till the off season because
it's easier to do any of the off season. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: I talked to someone the other day, and I know
this is hard to rationalize, but after fourteen trade winning
seasons and playing good basketball, they kind of are due
for a bad year. Yeah, like they were. They should
have had it last year in all actuality, and instead
they were just played over their heads and now it
happened this year. So is it just one of those
things where everyone just accepts, Hey man, this year just
went to crap real fast. We don't really have any
other exploitation. Yeah, we don't have any other explanation. Maybe
it's a gap year, and I know you don't want
to take gap years when guys are thirty six and
thirty four years old. That's not how it works. But
almost wonder if it's like, let's just get to the
off season reevaluate when we can make trades at an
easier rate because you can take in more players than
you can during the season and all these things. And
I kind of wonder if that's the thing, is just
get to the off season reevaluate and we'll move on
rather than take twenty cents on the dollar. Yeah, of
course for a player that you know, in a market
where you don't know what the market is, because whoever
deals first sets the market, And do you want to
be the first team to do it. I don't know's
I mean they might, I don't know. I mean they
very well might, just because of the Chris Paul shenanigans.
Speaker 1: So you know, will do you think they're shaking it
up that much? Do you want a clean break? I
think I want Adam's side with the clean break, Like
if we trade one of James or Kawhi, Like, yeah.
Speaker 3: The Kauhi stuff is just still a messy you know,
like in an ideal world. Yeah, if you're gonna move
one of them, you completely tear down and get as
much value as you can get. I just don't think
it's that clean. It's not that simple, yeah, do we.
I think if you're a Clippers fan, I mean, just
mark your calendar for the fifteenth, you know.
Speaker 1: It's Monday.
Speaker 3: Maybe things will be better, maybe they'll be worse.
Speaker 2: I'll never forget. Like asking James if this can be
salvaged in the locker room after the lost to Dallas,
and and he goes, what choice do we have? I
and I just looked at him. I was like, well,
it could always.
Speaker 4: Get, you know, worse, and he goes, it can and
I was like that was a great exchange.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I know there's a perception of like, well,
don't just climb out. They don't have to, as there
was a when I covered the Sparks.
Speaker 1: Fad't have to. They don't have to climb out. Dude,
there if you want.
Speaker 2: Bro, here's the thing when I when I covered the
Sparks this past year, on one of the beat writers,
John W. Davis of the Southern California News Group. I
remember I was telling him. I was like, well, they
can't keep losing, like because they were playing well even
though they were losing. He goes, I go, they can't
just keep losing, and he goes, they can't. They don't
have to do anything. They don't have to like they
could just like it could just happen. And I was like, Oh,
it's kind of stuck with me ever since. Yeah, no,
they they don't have to do anything. It could just happen,
like you know, it doesn't. It is what it is.
I mean, by the way, how early do we think
past the fifteenth Chris paul is dealt?
Speaker 4: So is it like Sunday at is it nine pm
Eastern time that that it turns to the next day?
How does the NBA calendar work.
Speaker 1: Their babies over there? So I think it's probably nine
pm Eastern. Oh, we don't sleep, we don't sleep, but
we can't deal with the three overtime change their babies
over there, So I think it'll be on East Coast
time what they're clam pizza and whatever they do over there,
or is it or it could be West Coast.
Speaker 2: I feel like that came from an area of hatred
for you, like you just.
Speaker 1: I don't even I don't even dislike the East Coast.
I just hate that the time change thing is because
they're like, oh, anyway.
Speaker 4: You didn't know Tupac was Chuck's spiritual animals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not accurate.
Speaker 3: His advisor in some other ways.
Speaker 1: But sure, uh, I think he's gone.
Speaker 4: What teams want Chris Paul, not the Clippers, maybe the Lakers.
Speaker 1: Dude, he would So do you think Chris Paul and
JJ Reddick would get along?
Speaker 2: So here's the thing.
Speaker 4: Teammates.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I don't know why I.
Speaker 1: Dueling chat GPT battles. You can't tell me three isn't.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's crazy to think the Lakers. But
also I don't know if the Lakers want to kind
of bring a new a new vet in while they're
trying to still.
Speaker 1: Tell it he's gonna make Dalton Connect have a mental breakdown.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, I mean, the the aspect of CP to the
Lakers is it's still la Lebron James is this guy,
and and JJ was his teammates, So like there's also that,
But also, do you want to coach a guy you
were teammates with who is.
Speaker 1: Like, again, we needed like Chris Paul is a dickhead.
He is very good at that. I'm not saying he's not.
I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm not saying he's not
good at basketball. He is a dickhead, which has an
effect on a workplace.
Speaker 4: Honestly, he could go wherever, Like you say that affectionately,
he could.
Speaker 3: He can go wherever and have a good season, and
I still wouldn't feel like that necessarily about the way
this all turned out, Like don't Yeah, he's not the
guy that you want in your locker room when you're
losing this many games.
Speaker 2: CP three to Milwaukee for a mirror, that's what we need,
sud Chris back with Doc Rivers.
Speaker 1: Honestly, a mere coffee comes back. I'm back on that.
We're winning fifty games.
Speaker 2: Train fans crapped on him.
Speaker 1: Would be the guy, he's the kind of player when
everything is going horribly. He had that fifty to forty
ninety January a couple of seasons ago. He would be
the guy who's like, remember that last like post All
Star break, a mere coffee averaged twenty six it. It'd
be the dumbest shit in the world. We would get
obliterated by okay see in the first round, but it'd
be kind of fun.
Speaker 2: Like I As far as the Chris thing, it's yeah,
how was that your fault?
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that. More people have been asking about
what how the Chris Paul thing was your fault? In
what way? Kind of a whole thing?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was the one who made this happen,
you know. I mean, look, without getting too deep into
the weeds about the Chris Paul situation. Uh, this, this
is the situation that can happen when a team is
bad and they have veterans, where guys feel compelled to
keep speaking out. Not I don't mean that in a
negative way. I'm just saying like, guys are speaking up
and speaking out and it can become draining. And I'm
sure people have their feelings on who was in the
right and who was in the wrong. I think the
situation looks the way that it does for everybody. I
don't think there's I don't think anyone is blameless here,
is all I'm gonna say.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent agreed. It's a two way street of
well and that goes back to kind of the media
thing we were talking about right, like everything is messy
from the Clippers side, from the people they're dealing with side, like.
Speaker 3: There's no right way to do anything when you've lost
this many games like that, you know, like there's there's
no way if and I brought this up before, like
when it first happened and we talked about it, like
if the team was five hundred, people would be celebrating
the move. It'd be like, it sucks that it happened,
but like you gotta do what you gotta do and
hope for the best for the rest of the season,
like if things weren't working out, but because the Clippers
are so bad, like there's no right way to do anything.
Speaker 2: Now, what I will say is this, This is what
I will say on the whole thing and leave it
with that is okay. So the story is Lawrence Frank
makes the decision late Sunday night to release Chris Paul
or not release excuse.
Speaker 1: Me because of a playing issue. Also in the timing
was also because of a delayed plane.
Speaker 2: Right well, that was when they were supposed to have
the meeting in Atlanta, got it on the Tuesday, but
on Sunday night, So the Clippers played the Dallas Mavericks
on a Saturday night at home. They make the decision
Sunday night to basically part ways with him and bring
him back home. Now, my whole thing is this, and
this is what I'm just urging people to do. What
happened on the plane flight from on Sunday morning that
had a ten am plane fight Sunday morning from LA
to Miami to play on Monday. What had to have
happened to where that night after the plane, after the
plane flight to Miami, that the decision has made he
has to go home. All I'm asking people is to
use critical thinking skills on how bad that must have
been to make the decision to send a guy home
after he just flew with your team for six hours.
Speaker 4: That's what I've been saying, is the night happen, It's like,
you guys think they wanted to do this. You think
they thought this was going to be good. Pr You
think they didn't think about the consequences and how much
blowback they were going to get. They thought of all
of it, and they still felt like this was the
better decision.
Speaker 2: Yeah, My main thing has been how bad must it
have been if they knew the pr hit that they
were gonna take and still did it.
Speaker 1: I think it was a BRA game gone wrong. You're
an idiot. They're on the plane. That's what they do
on the play. Laurence Frank was upset with how he
was playing Buray and things went awry.
Speaker 3: Guys, I got a jet by where are you going
out of here?
Speaker 2: He got traded before December fifteen?
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh you can. Anyone on this podcast can be
traded for deserverything.
Speaker 4: All right, are you going to Atlanta? Is that how they?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Things are pretty hellish right now.
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, it's kind of funny though, Like as
bad as they've been, I know they've played better recently
and they obviously still haven't won. It's just been rather
fascinating to me to watch like the stages of how
and this is I guess in a morbid way. It's
been fascinating to me to watch the stages of how
they've been bad, because it's always been like one thing
at a time that's been so bad that it's dragged
everything else down. Like last night was the offensive was
the defensive rebounding?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Other than that, they played great And I'm not even
talking about the ending sequence. Like, right, defensive rebounding was
terrible last night, but that's also because of how great
Houston is at it.
Speaker 4: So like.
Speaker 2: Rebounds, right, so like how do you even evaluate that?
But the night before against Minnesota, or the the game
before against Minnesota, it was what turnovers?
Speaker 1: Is that what it was?
Speaker 2: It was something in the Minnesota game. I'm trying to
remember now.
Speaker 4: It was they had they missed free throws. That's right,
ancle Ones. That was part of it. And an eighteen
point lead Minnesota started the free throws.
Speaker 1: Didn't they shoot like sixty two that game?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, sixty eight percent? They were seventeen of twenty five,
the best free throw shooting team in the league, by
the way. Yeah right, And oh that was the other thing.
They gave up thirty four free throw attempts to Minnesota
because they couldn't want to. I don't want to sound
like a person who has a gripe, but Julius Randall,
what is that whistle that he gets?
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter, would be my take. I don't care.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fair. I just like, I'm sorry. He also
got to the face. He Elboto guided the face and
still got the call.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's insane crazy. That sucks. That's fucking eighteen point lead.
Speaker 2: Agreed. Agreed.
Speaker 1: They lose like the Bucks lost last night. Like every game,
it's like, well, they have a third and twenty eight
surely won't get beat with the last second field goal.
Then it's like, oh, like it's just insane, dude. Like
I think big move wise because I know people are
they want to fire Lawrence Frank and fire Tylou and
I don't think that helps anything this year. I actually
maybe don't think it helps anything next year. Any changes
are coming at the end of the year. Balmber is
not any type of no for managerial I should say
roster changes. I would not be surprised in three days
if we see some trades managerially, I think it's gonna
it would be the end of the season. I don't
think Balmber is the guy to fire Tyler and Lawrence
Frank in December.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think Balmber wants stability and he doesn't want
to overreact to one bad season when I know a
lot of people feel like right now, they never won
the championship, They've all in bed. What do you mean,
blow it up? Okay, so he's gonna win again. That's
just this season should give you an indication maybe of
just how hard it is to win and what they've
been doing over the years. It's not easy. The fact
that they have been winning with all the injuries going on,
cobbling rosters together, figuring it out, working around the parameters
of having a lot of cap restrictions their way. The
pgach move moving on from him like they've done a
really good job overall. But like Justin said earlier, maybe
last year was the year everybody thought, and Vegas certainly
thought they were gonna have a down year. They delayed
it by a year.
Speaker 1: Maybe. Well in those last dude, that last stretch to
avoid the play in is absurd basketball. The Clippers played
like they put they had a playoff game every night
for the most part for the last at least five games,
right like they were that push I think obviously gassed
them last year to the point where we get whatever
the hell that Game seven was whatever?
Speaker 4: I ain't buying it. They had a week off, Honestly,
I can't.
Speaker 1: They're old, though, the cracks of their oldness showing.
Speaker 4: They didn't come out flat in Game four, and then
you get down twenty two and all of a sudden
start playing hard because they're old. They just they have
bad habits.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, and when you're old and you have
bad habits, you become stubborn in them. And here we are,
all right, I mean now that is what I don't
mean for back then.
Speaker 2: I mean now, I do agree with you, though, Chuck,
I don't think they make changes, uh, non roster changes
before the end of the season.
Speaker 1: It'd be crazy.
Speaker 2: I also, I don't want to pour cold water on
people people's hopes, I guess, but like I also just
don't see them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a Patreon episode. That's a six hour Patreon episode.
Speaker 2: I don't want to throw cold water on people's perspective hopes,
But like, I would be a little bit shocked if,
even if you get to the off season, if Tye
and Lawrence are dismissed. I generally think that they believe
one bad year out of fifteen is not enough of
a reason to just get rid of people. Essentially, at
the decision making level, when you're what twelve months eighteen
months removed essentially from a summer where you pivoted from
Paul George to all these other guys who became very
helpful and you had a great off season that you
overshot expectations, and now you're just underperforming expectations after what
you thought was a good off season, but now is
turned into a disaster off season. And I almost wonder
if this is a learning experience for them where they
have realized all the good stuff from the prior off season,
they didn't repeat this offseason with younger athletic minded, defensive
minded guys, and it was almost like a correction of sorts,
and now they're kind of just having to realize, Hey,
next summer, get back to doing what worked. None of
the sentimentality and veteran type stuff. We just need to
bring in guys who can play hard for eighty two
games because a lot of the Clipper stuff. At the
end of the day, it comes down to, they got
a lot of sixteen games. Like you heard the term
sixteen game players for the playoffs. They have a lot
of sixteen game players. What they don't have for eighty
two game guys. And that's kind of the problem. I
think is they like that they overshot the mark on
what they thought they needed, and I think it's come
back to haunt them a little bit, like it just
is what it is. So I would be a little
bit stunned if they make off season managerial in front
office changes.
Speaker 1: But I mean, what if they don't win a game
from here until the end of the season.
Speaker 2: I just don't think you'll see the team exists anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, mombers like, we're done.
Speaker 4: If you overreact to every down season, you're going to
have probably a lot of turnover. There have been very
few franchises that have had long standing runs of just consistency.
It's the Spurs, the Utah Jazz for a while, the
Clippers here in modern times, the Lakers for some time.
It's very difficult to do. And all of this comes
down to something that was out of their control. If
Kawhi doesn't tear as acl, they likely win into twenty
twenty one, and you can deal with seasons like this
more easily with more grace and just being like, Okay,
we get it, it's a down year, but we got
the ring. It was all worth it. We got the ring.
In this era, that's what's killing everybody that they didn't
get the ring and they're still being torture with the
season like this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they just it sucks, but it happens. Essentially
is the is the gist of the whole thing is
we've seen this happen to franchisees before. You know, the
difference is they would get a ring out of it,
like Milwaukee got a ring out of it. And now
you're seeing the ramifications of everything. The Lakers obviously got
one with the Anthony Davis trade, and you start going
down the pathway of like all these title winners they
generally got one because what it's seven different title winners
in seven years, yep.
Speaker 1: Well, and how they were playing like against the mass
before Kawhi got hurt that one year when him and
PG really it felt like they figured it out to
the optimum level of how to play together.
Speaker 2: But that also drives home the thought that I've had
for a while, which is when it's your year, you
have to win it because very much likely you're not
getting that year again. Like the team I go back to,
oddly enough is the Warriors in twenty twenty two, where
like they get the incredible Jordan Poole year, they get
the incredible Andrew Wiggins year, they get the once in
a lifetime Auto Porter Junior non injury season right, and
they win the title in six games against Boston, and
look what's happened to them since, Like they've dealt with stuff.
So it's it's one of those things where like when
it's your year, you got to strike while the Irons hotter,
or you're just not doing it. Like obviously we could
point to the Raptors in twenty nineteen, the Lakers in
twenty twenty, the Bucks in twenty one, the Warriors in
twenty two, and in some cases the Nuggets in twenty three.
They haven't made it back that far obviously, Like they've
been snake bitten by stuff here and there. So when
it is your time, you gotta get it done, simple
as that, and they haven't, whether through injuries or their
own mistakes or a combination of them. Like it just
is what it is.
Speaker 1: I think there was a funny thing too in terms
of fan reaction. La Murray tweeted this out, but he
was like a lot of these Clippers fans is aren't
used to seeing what these Clippers used to be, correct,
which is like if you're a Bandwagon fan when you
came over, that's fine. I'm not saying nothing against Bandwagon fans.
I'm a from a state where there's no professional teams.
Speaker 2: Oh I thought you're saying no running water.
Speaker 1: I'll fucking kill you, dude. So but like when you
join a team that makes a big like if you
if you're a new Clippers fan, I can understand the
frustration because you're like, what the hell happened here? We
won fifty?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, but it's also you gotta get used to it
because most of sports is losing.
Speaker 2: What's the phras there's only one winner every year.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's not like it's just so many things
outside of your control that you need to go your
way still and blaming you know, the front office or
a coach or a player for a lot of that stuff.
There's blame to go around, but you still need some luck.
And when you're factoring in, you know, how much you
want to criticize an organization, I would say you should
think about the good fortune aspect of it that's out
of your control. And I think they did every I
think twenty twenty one was was their year. I was
afraid the ACL tear was always going to be that
defining point line of demarcation or whatever where it's like this,
this is really when you look back on it the end.
It happened in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: They had a two year window. It was it was
the bubble year, which obviously they didn't know they were
gonna have to go into a bubble, but it happened.
And then there was twenty one, like those were the
two years and then once he tore his acluble. Dude,
they so.
Speaker 4: Two things out of your control bubble acl No.
Speaker 2: I mean they did what they could and it just
didn't work out. Sometimes that's life. So it's funny because
you bring up like the like laws saying that about
fans just are not used to it. That's where like
the four I know everyone kind of like laughs at
the fourteenth straight winning seasons, But that's what it bred
was an was an entire generation of fans who just
haven't seen the team be bad, right, and this is
a before that run, it was a terrible franchise, like
the losing its franchise in sports.
Speaker 1: And owned by a huge, very terrible person.
Speaker 2: That's that's under that's under selling it. But all right,
h I mean, yeah, and look it happens and they
have been bad until this run and now you're seeing
this is also like Adam, you said like, blow it
up like this is this is my only issue I think,
and I'm not saying my issue with you saying that,
but like my issue with fans who.
Speaker 1: Are like I got some receipts right here, dude, I
came prepared for this.
Speaker 4: I'll correct you afterwards.
Speaker 2: Hold on classic, Okay.
Speaker 1: So gotcha journalism. You ain't an hour and twenty minutes
lull us to sleep with your good nature.
Speaker 2: Russo finds out.
Speaker 1: You know, hey, you of all people right now should
not like aligning yourself with Babo tor.
Speaker 2: Oh after the nick Right thing? Is it the nick
Right thing right there? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah?
But what I was gonna say is like this is
why when fans, when I see because I'll get the
messages every now and then, like on Twitter or whatever,
is oh, they need to like just trade everyone and
just build around the young guys and just like kind
of just let it organically build. The problem with that
is everybody thinks they're built for that until you're four
years in watching a twenty four win team do nothing
and you have no young guys and it just is
just miserable. The reason I know that is because I
watched the Charlotte Hornets willingly, and up until this year,
I would have actually said they had no direction. And
then they get Konker Nipple and he's goddamn amazing. Yeah,
like just full stop. But like that's the thing though,
is it how many years did it take them to
get him? And look what's happened to the Kings outside
of one or two years, or you know, you look
at the Utah Jazz and that's another thing.
Speaker 4: So it goes back to it's so hard to win.
It's so hard to win. And maybe when you're looking
at this season and how difficult it's been this season,
I know, with all the losing, it's like, I know,
it sucks they didn't win the championship, but it's hard
to do what they have been doing too. Yeah, it's
look at Washington like they've been. You can have the
teardowns all you want. I completely agree with you. The
draft is a crap shoot. Go back to any draft
and look through it, and then remember what guys were
saying in comps in the top ten. I remember I
looked from twenty six to twenty sixteen, and there was
a twenty five percent chance during that time of you
drafting an All Star in the top ten. In the
top ten, there was a twenty five percent chance.
Speaker 1: Damn.
Speaker 4: So it was one hundred guys drafted in the top
ten over that ten year period, twenty five of them
became All Stars. It's really difficult. It's really hard. Everybody
thinks during the draft, all this guy's surefire. Oh okay,
you can't go wrong with this guy. Yeah, you go
back and look at the drafts. There's missus all over
the place.
Speaker 2: It's not a it's not a science.
Speaker 1: Essentially, you don't even know how tall the guy you're
drafting is. Shout out, Daniel Otuue. I think on that note,
I think I do have to tap out.
Speaker 2: That's fine.
Speaker 1: I can't dedicate any more time talking about the Clippers.
Speaker 2: Was that the real quick was the tour game in Okay? See?
Speaker 1: Was that the when he got blocked seven times?
Speaker 2: Excuse me, it was eight let's let's be correct here,
damn journalism. Wow? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Was that?
Speaker 2: Was that the turning point in both franchises?
Speaker 1: It might have been that eighth block, like, just oh
shit that or when we gave them six picks.
Speaker 2: It's probably the picks, but I could be convinced of
the eighth block.
Speaker 1: You know what's a crazy turning point and then we
do have to get here is if and this is
a completely different sport. If you look at when the
Dolphins beat the Broncos and they put up seventy points.
Speaker 2: Yes, I saw that the other day.
Speaker 1: That was literally when both the Broncos started going up
and the Dolphins just started going fucking down.
Speaker 2: I saw someone post about that the other day, and
you were the first person I thought of, and I
was like, I can't said this to them. You can.
Speaker 1: It's fine, I'm aware of it. I live with a
very die hard Broncos fan. All Right, we are out
of here. Thank you everyone for hanging out. We maybe
just made you more upset, but that's fine. It's fun
to have the passion cheer on the guys if you're
at the game, unless they give up a thirty to
two runner, which case, do whatever the hell you want.
Justin Russo, thank you for hanging out. Where can people
find your wonderful stuff?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: You can find me on Twitter at f L y
B y k N I t E. You can find
me on uh substack at just Justin Russo dot substack
dot com I will apologize I haven't written anything in
like a week. It's not because I'm apathetic towards the team.
Speaker 1: I've I'm furious that you're output.
Speaker 2: I I I tend to take like a week break
during December to kind of like p re calibrate shit.
So yeah, it's one of those situations. What do you
mean you get stressed out?
Speaker 1: You get stressed out during the holidays. What the hell
are you talking about?
Speaker 2: Even when they're winning, I get stressed out there the
holidays with ship.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, thank you so much, thank you for
covering the team we need. Just Adam, we are going
to put this on audio, so you do have to
do the hardest thing in the world. Uh promote your
show and give us one positive thing to send these
Clippers fans into their weekend.
Speaker 4: For uh later tonight Fox Sports radio anywhere nationally listen
to it on the iHeartRadio app followed me and follow
out of May. I'll post some links. But the positive
thing here, well, Home, Sweet Home. You know we got
off to this little start at home last season and
then things turned around into it. Do can we do
the same here? Be nice? If Monday night was a
turning point against Memphis, who they've had two brutal losses
to in the last couple of weeks. We do need
Clipper Nation to give this team a lyft. Like, I
understand you're you're paying fan, you do what you want
well within reason. There are some disclaimer stuff at the
bottom of your ticket you should probably read, but UH.
Speaker 1: Agreed, Actually, yes, please do read that.
Speaker 4: I hope you will give this team a chance and
give them a lift out there because they have been
laying hard. They just continue to lose games late. Can
you help push them over the finish line. Drag them
across the finish line. That's what we need on Monday
night against Memphis.
Speaker 2: Should fans UH courtside be holding a little gatorade cups
like at UH Marathon for the players, Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just just hand it out marathon. Thank you all
so much for hanging out. We'll be back next week
to talk about hopefully not a new low. That is
our goal for every week. Let's just not have a
new low. I have been Chuck Mockley William up like
says thank you as well as always Let's go clips